#emc | Logs for 2007-02-06

[01:04:12] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: don't jog while in MDI mode
[01:08:23] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/scaragui.py: fix tool orientation - it was pointing the wrong way
[01:10:18] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: update copyright
[02:02:22] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: additional keys that were causing problems in the mdi entry field
[02:05:14] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: backport rev 1.21: fix accidental manual commands while in MDI mode. update copyright notice
[02:10:11] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: keys were causing problem in the axis mdi entry field
[02:26:37] <tomp> hello
[02:29:25] <tomp> Twingy: last nites build of gcam works nice. but the default plunge and cut rate were very slow(0.1 and 0.01 ipm). where do i set that information?
[02:32:15] <tomp> i see feedrate, is plunge rate just 1/10 feedrate?
[02:46:03] <ejholmgren> tomp: what's the gcam website?
[02:46:15] <tomp> http://gcam.js.cx
[02:48:43] <tomp> i got some of the sample files to create good emc2 output, strugggling with creating my own tho , right now it doesnt want to modify the 'extrusion', which is the term for the side profile. it just ignores the data and keeps the side straight.. it works in the examples but not from scratch ( in my attempts )
[02:50:56] <ejholmgren> thanks, wanted to bookmark that
[02:50:58] <Twingy> tomp, what material?
[02:51:11] <tomp> pixels :)
[02:51:28] <tomp> it was valid in Axis
[02:51:42] <Twingy> tomp feed rates are very primitive right now
[02:52:07] <Twingy> best bet is to just search punch in a feed rate in the "Tool" object
[02:52:24] <Twingy> tool block is usually 2nd block
[02:52:44] <tomp> no problem, wondered if i missed it. , ah looking at some output now, yep F0.100 (Feed Rate)
[02:53:23] <tomp> i just edited the feeds to 100 and the plunge to 50 so i could watch
[02:53:57] <Twingy> k
[02:54:03] <Twingy> adding a "Drill Holes" object
[02:54:05] <tomp> ejholmgren: dont bookmark it , download & build it. Twingy needs feedback from other than me
[02:54:10] <Twingy> good for making MCB's
[02:54:19] <tomp> MCB?
[02:55:16] <Twingy> milled circuit board
[02:55:20] <tomp> ah
[03:09:40] <ejholmgren> tomp: fine ;)
[03:09:47] <tomp> Twingy: when i edit the extrusion, the line doesnt change , but the sketch does ( i set P0(x) 0.000 P0(y) 0.000 P1(x) 0.2 P1(y) -0.3 on a workpiece that was -.3 thick , the 'section' view of the line doesnt change )
[03:09:48] <ejholmgren> http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2007073307202.gif
[03:09:50] <ejholmgren> bwahahaha
[03:10:11] <tomp> :)
[03:10:17] <Twingy> hrm
[03:12:16] <tomp> we had these square plastic buttons on early wedm machines, one guy had written below them, on time off time, another guy got some similar looking kitchen magnets and put them next to the others, and labled them lunchtime & beertime
[03:12:31] <Twingy> tomp, I'm unable to reproduce your problem
[03:13:18] <tomp> Twingy: are you on linux? or got any suggestions? i can paste the pictures
[03:13:24] <Twingy> freebsd
[03:13:39] <Twingy> are you pressing "Update" button?
[03:14:01] <tomp> update ues, and thinking i hadnt, pressed it several times
[03:14:06] <tomp> yes
[03:14:32] <Twingy> you are able to reproduce this on the "Motor Mount" sample?
[03:14:59] <tomp> no, on a hex like in the demo, just 6 lines, then i try to extrude
[03:15:12] <tomp> i'll try the motor mount now
[03:16:41] <Twingy> k
[03:17:13] <tomp> motor mount is fine, i only chgd P1(x) from 0 to 0.1 and you can see the line change immediately. i see the difference is that I inserted the sketch versus the sketch was already there
[03:17:49] <Twingy> if you can reproduce the problem over and over again on the same gcam file then upload it and put directions on what you did
[03:17:55] <Twingy> to make the problem occur
[03:17:58] <Twingy> and post in bugzilla
[03:18:10] <tomp> k
[03:18:14] <Twingy> thx
[03:18:33] <tomp> no problem you're making a nice tool
[03:23:27] <Twingy> thx
[03:23:40] <Twingy> version 2 of the manual is under way
[03:46:03] <ejholmgren> configure: error: GTK+ 2.8 or higher is required
[03:46:36] <ejholmgren> erm ... isn't GTK+ 2.10 the latest version?
[03:46:48] <tomp> ejholmgren: lookin...
[03:46:49] <Twingy> ejholmgren, which version are you using?
[03:47:00] <ejholmgren> 2.10
[03:47:06] <Twingy> gcam version
[03:47:18] <ejholmgren> newest
[03:47:29] <tomp> 2007 02 05?
[03:47:45] <ejholmgren> gcam-2007.02.05
[03:47:51] <Twingy> ejholmgren, you don't have gtk installed right
[03:48:01] <ejholmgren> I blame ubuntu
[03:48:15] <Twingy> check your pkg system
[03:48:18] <Twingy> see if it's installed
[03:48:19] <ejholmgren> le me muck around a bit more
[03:48:26] <ejholmgren> synaptic says it is
[03:48:43] <Twingy> pkg-config gtk+-2.0 --modversion
[03:48:43] <Twingy> that work?
[03:51:24] <tomp> i'm using ubuntu dapper, and it built several times for me... synaptic shows i have pkg "libgtk2.0-0" and that is 2.8.20-unbuntu1.1
[03:51:38] <ejholmgren> I'm running edgy
[03:52:15] <ejholmgren> No package 'gtk+-2.0' found
[03:52:45] <tomp> i just searched synaptic for 'gtk' and looked in the lib* area
[03:52:55] <ejholmgren> synaptic says libgtk 2.10.6 is installed
[03:53:09] <tomp> woohoo you are edgy
[03:53:43] <tomp> Twingy, is his too new? he has libtgk2.10.6
[03:54:02] <Twingy> no, 2.10 is what I use
[03:54:08] <ejholmgren> gah ... damned ubuntu
[03:54:13] <Twingy> ejholmgren, how about gtk+ dev packages?
[03:54:13] <ejholmgren> I know I should have stayed with slackware
[03:54:22] <Twingy> ejholmgren, there is a difference between GTK libs and GTK Dev files
[03:54:51] <ejholmgren> Twingy: no ... installing now
[03:54:57] <Twingy> k
[03:55:12] <tomp> my dev files are same as my lib, 2.8.20
[03:57:32] <crepincdotcom_> anyone know what Eagle library a LM555 is in? can't find it
[03:58:19] <tomp> try 555? 556?
[03:58:35] <crepincdotcom_> Neither :-(
[03:58:43] <tomp> 555 in chinese is wuwuwu :)
[03:58:53] <crepincdotcom_> As in, I did a search for each, and got now results
[03:59:05] <crepincdotcom_> like if I run into eagle in Mandarin that will come in handy ;-)
[03:59:29] <tomp> hmm, werent there libs to be loaded tho? and extra libs at thier site that arent in the std pkg?
[03:59:46] <crepincdotcom_> yeah, but there are like 400 extra libs
[04:00:20] <ejholmgren> woo woo woo
[04:01:48] <jepler> crepincdotcom_: in 'linear' there's a device *555
[04:02:19] <jepler> I did 'add *555*' and looked through the list...
[04:02:34] <crepincdotcom_> ahhh there it is, I guess the star threw me off
[04:02:35] <crepincdotcom_> thanks
[04:03:08] <jepler> sure thing
[04:03:21] <Twingy> who started emc?
[04:03:30] <crepincdotcom_> NIST
[04:03:30] <jmkasunich> NIST
[04:03:33] <ejholmgren> NIST
[04:03:42] <Twingy> heh
[04:03:46] <ejholmgren> NIST!
[04:03:50] <Twingy> * Twingy was at NIST a few months ago
[04:03:51] <tomp> we are the knights that say nist
[04:04:02] <crepincdotcom_> hahaha
[04:04:08] <Twingy> any of the NIST devs still work on it?
[04:04:16] <ejholmgren> ok, got gcam compiled ... will play with it after I study calc
[04:04:28] <Twingy> ejholmgren, good
[04:10:42] <tomp> Twingy: there is no file saved when this occurs... meaning, the menu has save in grey, and if i save as,. then the file is ok, meaning you'll never see the extrusion error in the 'saved as' file... should i still file in bugzilla?
[04:11:22] <Twingy> no
[04:11:47] <Twingy> if you can write the steps down so that I can go through them then I can debug
[04:11:57] <Twingy> I'm headed to bed now though
[04:12:09] <tomp> Twingy: i did find the thing that reproduces the error: i never save and after i sketch, i tilt the skecth to look at it, then i extrude... then it occurs.. IF o dont tilt in between, it's fine
[04:12:35] <Twingy> ok, please write down the steps
[04:12:43] <Twingy> and post that on bugzilla
[04:12:51] <tomp> k, g'nite
[04:12:57] <Twingy> then I will have a look wednesday
[04:13:00] <Twingy> tomorrow I am busy
[04:13:11] <Twingy> next release may contain "Drill Holes"
[04:13:17] <Twingy> with G81/G80 canned cycles
[04:13:46] <Twingy> a user needed that for MCB's
[04:14:04] <Twingy> night
[06:08:22] <K`zan> Night folks
[09:28:57] <Jymmm> anyone alive?
[09:47:19] <xemet> hello
[10:15:32] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/lib/python/vismach.py: added backplot to vismach
[10:15:33] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/ (pumagui.py scaragui.py): added backplot to vismach
[11:10:58] <A-L-P-H-A> yippiekiayah!
[11:11:26] <A-L-P-H-A> yippykiayiayah!
[13:00:26] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm hooked on a new (to me) type of coffee... vietnamese coffee... so strong.
[15:59:49] <tomp> i moved my pci video card to another slot, and x failed. do i need to change this line in xorg.conf? 'BusID PCI:0:11:0"
[16:00:44] <cradek> yes
[16:00:54] <cradek> lspci will tell you the new value
[16:01:02] <cradek> or, just comment that line
[16:01:12] <tomp> thanks very much
[16:02:12] <tomp> i needed the room for the thai 8255 card that jepler made a driver for ( futurlec )
[16:03:14] <jepler> be aware that it's not well tested yet
[16:03:34] <tomp> testing soon :) got a beginning now
[16:04:15] <tomp> after I shovel 2 feet of 'partly cloudy' off the drive way
[16:04:19] <jepler> in fact I don't think I ever got around to testing the output mode
[16:04:20] <jepler> I think input mode works
[16:04:32] <cradek> haha
[17:46:30] <maddash> maddash is now known as xarsten
[17:47:20] <xarsten> xarsten is now known as maddash
[17:53:00] <maddash> wooooot kqemu gpl'ed
[17:53:27] <SWPadnos> lots of competition from kernel 2.6.20, I guess :)
[18:03:43] <Martin_Lundstrom> Hello everyone :)
[18:03:54] <Martin_Lundstrom> Dallur: are you there?
[18:08:52] <tomp> anyway to do a thumbnail on the wiki? where thumb links to larger pix ( save room on wiki unless reader is interested? )
[18:09:57] <maddash> SWPadnos: what do you mean?
[18:10:16] <SWPadnos> kernel 2.6.20 has virtualization support built in
[18:11:38] <maddash> is it as fast as qemu+kqemu
[18:11:41] <maddash> ?
[18:13:23] <maddash> besides, 2.6.20 is a long way from becoming stable
[18:14:13] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo all
[18:15:27] <maddash> anyone watched jack bauer last night?
[18:16:33] <SWPadnos> maddash, from what I gather, it's very fast when you use paravirtualization
[18:17:02] <SWPadnos> faster than qemu+kqemu, about on par with Xen
[18:17:12] <SWPadnos> but I haven't done a lot of looking into it
[18:18:11] <maddash> hmmm, i'll probably be able to run autocad inside linux soon, then
[18:18:23] <SWPadnos> vmware can do that now
[18:18:26] <SWPadnos> I can run SolidWorks
[18:19:30] <pier> SWPadnos: really?
[18:19:45] <SWPadnos> yes (really what? :) )
[18:19:48] <maddash> any apparent slowdowns?
[18:20:05] <pier> SWPadnos: :) I mean... smoothly?
[18:20:08] <SWPadnos> ait's probably slower than it would be native, but on my Opteron machine it's pretty darned fast
[18:20:23] <pier> SWPadnos: azz
[18:20:24] <maddash> ah no wonder..
[18:20:25] <pier> ok
[18:20:52] <SWPadnos> I have SW2004 installed, and I can take the ratcheting screwdriver sample thay have and rotate it around in realtime. rebuilds are seconds
[18:20:53] <maddash> i just remembered that they do thing differently in SWPland
[18:20:57] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:21:27] <SWPadnos> it's probably more the video card than anything else - it's a 7800GT (not fast by today's standards, but fast enough for sure)
[18:23:16] <pier> SWPadnos: wonder if a 7600 512 would do good too
[18:23:34] <SWPadnos> probably. isn't the 7600 in the same generation as the 7900?
[18:23:42] <SWPadnos> (my card is a 256M 7800GT)
[18:24:45] <maddash> my poor dad's windows setup is bogged down by stuff that gets automatically installed. maybe I could get him to try debian, now that kqemu is out
[18:24:51] <pier> mmm don't have a clue
[18:26:21] <SWPadnos> oops - dentist time. see you later
[18:26:31] <pier> bye SWPadnos
[18:37:46] <tomp> where are the modules probe_parport and pic_8255?
[18:37:52] <tomp> pci_8255
[18:56:30] <Dallur> Martin: im here but working :D
[19:12:40] <tomp> got 'em
[19:33:36] <goku> heloo
[19:33:49] <goku> i see in site
[19:33:57] <goku> emc 2.1
[19:34:10] <goku> how tomake for install it?
[19:34:15] <CIA-8> 03lerman 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/gcodemodule.cc:
[19:34:15] <CIA-8> Change to use interpreter's error_text function instead of looking it up
[19:34:15] <CIA-8> the error in the table. This will permit future changes that permit
[19:34:15] <CIA-8> error messages containing more information.
[19:34:29] <goku> ?
[19:34:39] <goku> kame kame ra!!!
[19:34:56] <goku> how install emc 2.1?
[19:35:32] <tomp> should bin/halcmd loadrt pci_8255 create some pins? i only get 2 functions when i exec bin/halcmd show
[19:35:38] <tomp> goku: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[19:37:43] <cradek> goku: http://linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=4&lang=en
[19:38:08] <cradek> goku: is this a new install, or are you updating from emc 2.0?
[19:38:18] <goku> updating
[19:38:42] <goku> its possible update emc?
[19:38:57] <cradek> here are the instructions for updating emc2.0 to emc2.1: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.1
[19:39:11] <maddash__> maddash__ is now known as sudo_maddash
[19:39:28] <goku> ok
[19:43:54] <cradek> goku: that exact information was in the 2.1.0 announcement email too.
[19:51:56] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[20:03:16] <sudo_maddash> sudo_maddash is now known as maddash
[20:03:27] <lerneaen_hydra> sudo_maddash? O_o
[20:03:41] <lerneaen_hydra> as in psuedo maddash or super maddash?
[20:03:48] <maddash> inferiority complex
[20:03:54] <lerneaen_hydra> ah
[20:03:54] <maddash> as in that
[20:03:58] <maddash> :P
[20:04:11] <lerneaen_hydra> bribe alex_joni with some candy or a lathe and you'll be sure to get +o
[20:04:19] <A-L-P-H-A> lerneaen_hydra, you know all about that complex, right? :)
[20:04:30] <lerneaen_hydra> A-L-P-H-A; :p
[20:04:34] <maddash> "+o"?
[20:04:37] <A-L-P-H-A> lerneaen_hydra, I think it took only an Z-axis.
[20:04:38] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: get what?
[20:04:46] <lerneaen_hydra> +o in IRC
[20:04:52] <lerneaen_hydra> operator status
[20:04:55] <A-L-P-H-A> +o <-- female symbol.
[20:04:55] <lerneaen_hydra> A-L-P-H-A; oh, cool!
[20:05:01] <maddash> LOL A-L-P-H-A
[20:05:19] <lerman> female symbol (lying on her side)
[20:05:18] <lerneaen_hydra> o->
[20:05:28] <lerneaen_hydra> male symbol rotated 45 degrees
[20:05:28] <A-L-P-H-A> o7` <-- closer?
[20:05:39] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, probably
[20:05:48] <A-L-P-H-A> <shrug>
[20:06:13] <maddash> i didn't know that alex_joni took candy
[20:09:03] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[20:09:25] <lerneaen_hydra> I read that as one would read "I didn't know <person> took <drugs>
[20:09:58] <maddash> alex is on drugs?!
[20:11:33] <maddash> i wonder if there was some way to pipe the contents of dd across ssh
[20:11:33] <A-L-P-H-A> candy pushers at raves are great!
[20:11:42] <A-L-P-H-A> person RX dealers.
[20:11:46] <A-L-P-H-A> personal
[20:19:16] <pier> could an "Unexpected realtime delay" make axis to crash?
[20:19:46] <pier> well not emc... the PC
[20:20:03] <jepler> if you chose a BASE_PERIOD that is too low, your machine may become unresponsive and require a reboot
[20:20:15] <jepler> a bad realtime kernel can also lead to lockups
[20:21:55] <pier> jepler: I didn't tune the latency as I am using this pc for tests...
[20:22:40] <pier> I'll try to change the BASE_PERIOD
[20:23:42] <skunkworks> pier: what kind of hardware?
[20:24:05] <skunkworks> onboard video? usb drive plugged in?
[20:24:08] <pier> 2.6ghz
[20:25:10] <pier> usb 3com home connect
[20:25:36] <pier> nvidia 7600 video card
[20:25:52] <skunkworks> I have had issues with a computer causing realtime delays when I had a usb chain drive plugged in.
[20:26:12] <skunkworks> -key chain drive.
[20:26:35] <skunkworks> usb memory stick - whatever
[20:26:50] <pier> the pc freeze... no pen drive connected
[20:26:58] <pier> mmm
[20:27:02] <jepler> even on machines where I get "unexpected realtime delay" (e.g., my laptop, or my desktop when using the "nvidia" driver) I don't get system lockups
[20:27:42] <skunkworks> pier: but you have something usb plugged in though?
[20:27:47] <pier> shame that I cannot get anything from var log messages
[20:27:52] <pier> yes
[20:27:56] <skunkworks> worth removing for a test.
[20:27:57] <pier> a cam
[20:28:10] <pier> ok I try at once
[20:28:50] <pier> remove the vicam module?
[20:29:15] <jepler> consider running something that is not EMC but which is realtime -- there are several tests in the rtai distribution
[20:29:48] <jepler> if it locks up that will point at the kernel or the hardware as the cause
[20:30:36] <pier> I am experimenting with RTAI tutorials and pc never locked....
[20:31:20] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[20:31:23] <skunkworks> section 2.1
[20:31:53] <jepler> were you running a standard emc2 configuration?
[20:32:08] <pier> stepper mm
[20:32:23] <pier> the config file provided
[20:32:39] <pier> I do not use this pc with my router
[20:33:20] <jepler> but you modified the configuration at least a little bit, to use AXIS instead of tkemc
[20:33:31] <pier> so I do not care much about cutting things but axis is great as simulator
[20:33:49] <pier> jepler: yes... switched to axis from tkemc
[20:34:08] <jepler> have you considered compiling 2.1 with --enable-simulator, so that you don't need a realtime kernel at all?
[20:35:00] <pier> ... not really... I own up to it that didn't know it was possible this time... my fault
[20:35:50] <pier> but in any case I need rt kernel to learn something with tutorials
[20:36:00] <pier> ok ... I am going to restart axis
[20:43:47] <pier> crashed again....
[20:55:37] <fenn> that's the annoying thing about rt software development
[20:55:42] <fenn> well, one of them
[20:57:50] <erDiZz> fenn, yeah, the last time -mync rt kernel hanged on SMP, I had to debug it over a serial port..
[21:01:43] <erDiZz> could anybody suggest what is the difference between ADEOS and RTAI kernels?
[21:04:38] <jepler> "The purpose of Adeos is to provide a flexible environment for sharing hardware resources among multiple operating systems, or among multiple instances of a single OS."
[21:05:08] <jepler> some versions of RTAI use an Adeos-patched kernel
[21:07:06] <erDiZz> jepler, I remember (couldn't find where it was) that it was suggested that one should use not an original ADEOS kernel, but a modified -rtai version
[21:07:31] <erDiZz> I'm maintaning a different real-time linux kernel patch
[21:07:34] <jepler> erDiZz: I don't know -- I rely on the realtime kernel compiled by Alex Joni for Ubuntu
[21:07:58] <alex_joni> it's called IPIPE nowadays (not ADEOS)
[21:08:00] <jepler> but with the rtai source distribution, they generally include an ADEOS patch that they suggest you use.
[21:08:23] <erDiZz> is it an unmodified ADEOS patch?
[21:08:27] <jepler> I don't know
[21:08:47] <alex_joni> erDiZz: there were times when the ADEOS patch worked better than the one from rtai
[21:08:59] <alex_joni> I think it's version dependent, and one can't say which one is better
[21:09:12] <erDiZz> so they both do work?
[21:09:16] <alex_joni> for recent kernels I'd say go with the one you can find :D
[21:09:26] <erDiZz> ok
[21:09:36] <alex_joni> _if_ you can find one for the kernel version you want :D
[21:09:44] <alex_joni> rtai is terrible for docs
[21:09:58] <alex_joni> I heard Xenomai is way better, but haven't looked at that
[21:10:02] <erDiZz> Xenomai?
[21:10:37] <erDiZz> * erDiZz is reading xenomai web site...
[21:11:10] <alex_joni> it's a long history.. inital project by their own, then they joined RTAI as rtai/fusion, now they forked again
[21:11:44] <erDiZz> alex_joni, is EMC tied to RTAI?
[21:11:48] <erDiZz> is there an abstraction level?
[21:11:55] <jepler> emc2 has RTAPI
[21:12:00] <erDiZz> or a set of requirements for the environment?
[21:12:02] <alex_joni> RT API
[21:12:05] <jepler> in the past it worked on both rtai and rtlinux
[21:12:17] <erDiZz> hmm
[21:12:21] <jepler> there's also a "sim" (userspace / nonrealtime) implementation of the RTAPI
[21:12:23] <alex_joni> it's an abstraction layer written by EMC people (mostly JMK in particular)
[21:12:26] <erDiZz> maybe I can make it run on my kernel?
[21:12:37] <alex_joni> erDiZz: look at emc2/src/rtapi
[21:12:47] <erDiZz> ok, going there...
[21:13:31] <jepler> erDiZz: the "section 3rtapi" manual pages on http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/ are mostly complete give you an idea of the needed APIs in RTAPI
[21:14:22] <erDiZz> does your CVS repo has a web interface?
[21:14:25] <jepler> yes
[21:14:31] <erDiZz> where is it?
[21:14:35] <jepler> cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2
[21:14:41] <jepler> http:// that is
[21:14:55] <alex_joni> or http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/lxr
[21:15:09] <alex_joni> that's maybe a bit more usefull if you want to look at the api
[21:16:01] <erDiZz> I'll spend some time on it. thanks.
[21:16:27] <alex_joni> erDiZz: you can always ask about specifics, in order not to waste time hunting for specifics
[21:17:07] <jepler> jmk and I may be the two rtapi experts -- he designed it and (I think) wrote the rtl and rtai implementations. I wrote the sim implementation and most of the manpages.
[21:20:48] <jepler> I would be excited to see a new realtime kernel that emc2 can use
[21:23:26] <Nicolas35LA> jepler: can I get your opinion on the minimum latency required for EMC to run on RTAI if one uses hardware generated pulses. In other words, the fastest thread would be the servo one (about 1ms)
[21:26:12] <jepler> if the time between runs of the servo thread varies too much, it will seem to emc that the motors are running alternately too fast and too slow
[21:26:28] <jepler> if you asked for 1ms but ran for 1.5ms then the motors will have gone 1.5 times as long as emc wanted
[21:26:59] <jepler> the next interval might be .5ms and the motors will have gone 0.5 times as far as emc wanted
[21:27:24] <jepler> it seems to me that the effect of this on the PID loop can only be bad
[21:27:25] <Nicolas35LA> ok, so does it have to be very awaken at very close to 1ms intervals
[21:28:14] <cradek> emc currently gives an error if it the servo thread timing varies by 10%
[21:28:15] <Nicolas35LA> I assume that this is also true for stepper motors. Is the same thread used to monitor and adjust the speed of steppers
[21:28:32] <Nicolas35LA> ok, 10% gives me a number to work with
[21:29:08] <jepler> Nicolas35LA: for hardware step generation, the servo thread is presumably giving a velocity command (e.g., a command of steps per second) to the step generator hardware
[21:29:51] <Nicolas35LA> ok, that is what I assumed
[21:29:53] <lerneaen_hydra> hahahah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1jN27e54Ks
[21:29:56] <jepler> in that respect it's not too different from a servo system, except that the loop is only "closed" over the number of steps actually issued by the board
[21:30:06] <lerneaen_hydra> you have to have seen the original video first though
[21:30:15] <Nicolas35LA> yes
[21:30:54] <Nicolas35LA> Is 1ms for the servo thread considered good or are there many cases where one would want finer
[21:32:41] <maddash> lerneaen_hydra: blech. dancing naked male. blech. blech.
[21:32:42] <cradek> I think 1ms is typical but people want more
[21:35:35] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash; have you seen the original?
[21:36:10] <maddash> lerneaen_hydra: nope
[21:39:24] <lerneaen_hydra> maddash; ah, what a pity
[21:40:16] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a16MtxpThC4 <-- SSFW
[21:41:28] <lerneaen_hydra> semi safe for work
[21:41:36] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:41:57] <robin_sz> and another day goes by ...
[21:54:04] <maddash> can anyone here explain a possible scenario for gouging?
[21:54:35] <anonimasu> yeah, a crack in some structure that has to be repaired
[21:55:12] <maddash> huh? I was speaking with reference to milling...
[21:55:51] <cradek> I don't understand the question, can you be more specific
[21:56:35] <anonimasu> oh, tool gouging..
[21:58:19] <maddash> tool gouging...ie, when "a tool overcuts the part's surface, ... [resulting in] errors between the machined and nominal surfaces greater than the specified tolerance."
[22:02:10] <cradek> all sorts of things can cause that - backlash (especially with climb milling), wrong speeds/feeds, etc
[22:09:00] <alex_joni> bad measurements :D
[22:09:11] <anonimasu> ehe
[22:09:22] <tomp> bumping a machine that isnt stiff
[22:09:53] <anonimasu> hm, wrong feeds/speeds is a mess
[22:11:21] <alex_joni> oh.. forgot to say
[22:11:26] <jepler> if you try to cut a feature that is smaller than your cutter, you'll gouge the work by cutting away something you wanted to keep
[22:11:32] <alex_joni> I did my first real machining with emc2 today :D
[22:11:47] <jtr> woohoo!
[22:11:47] <cradek> alex_joni: congratulations
[22:11:53] <alex_joni> it was about time :D
[22:11:59] <anonimasu> alex_joni: congratulation1
[22:12:01] <anonimasu> s!
[22:12:07] <alex_joni> some text engravings on plexiglass :)
[22:12:17] <alex_joni> (text generated by ttt of course)
[22:12:34] <cradek> neat
[22:12:35] <anonimasu> :)
[22:12:44] <alex_joni> yeah, maybe I'll make some pictures tomorrow
[22:13:04] <Jymmmm> yo
[22:13:31] <maddash> what has emc2 been used for all this time?
[22:13:51] <Jymmmm> huh?
[22:14:23] <anonimasu> machining?
[22:14:46] <maddash> so why the big huzzah?
[22:14:53] <jtr> It's fun to talk about hanging around the water cooler. Better than working. ;)
[22:15:43] <Jymmmm> maddash we dont understand the question
[22:15:51] <jtr> (in reference to the first question.)
[22:16:37] <maddash> Jymmmm: nvm.
[22:16:58] <anonimasu> maddash: huzzah?
[22:17:29] <maddash> I was referring to 17:11:30 <alex_joni> I did my first real machining with emc2 today :D
[22:17:29] <jtr> We are excited for alex_joni because he can use EMC2 now.
[22:17:48] <maddash> oh. isn't he a developer?
[22:17:51] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:17:56] <Jymmmm> maddash: Ah, not everyone in #emc actually has a machien to use emc2 on.
[22:17:57] <jtr> Instead of just improving it.
[22:18:02] <anonimasu> yep
[22:18:48] <maddash> comprendo ahora.
[22:19:12] <Jymmmm> maddash I have a machien, jepler has a machine (that cradek steals once in a while), I think fenn has one too.
[22:19:45] <skunkworks> Actually it is cadeks machines. ;)
[22:20:01] <maddash> too bad my machine's too old to be controlled by a PC
[22:20:05] <Jymmmm> skunkworks Ok, I couldn't remember who steals from who there =)
[22:20:13] <anonimasu> maddash: dont say that :D
[22:20:18] <anonimasu> maddash: you can cnc old gear
[22:20:21] <anonimasu> with good results
[22:21:09] <fenn> nope mine is gone, now i'm just a lump on a log
[22:21:13] <fenn> a cold log
[22:21:17] <fenn> brr
[22:21:19] <Jymmmm> fenn what happened?
[22:21:49] <anonimasu> fenn: :/
[22:22:07] <fenn> the original owner wanted the motors and controller back
[22:22:15] <fenn> so we scrapped it because the frame sucked to begin with
[22:22:34] <Jymmmm> fenn didn't you have a router attachemnt on the side of it too?
[22:23:00] <fenn> i'm working on a servo drive right now but having problems
[22:24:48] <maddash> a new cnc mill costs less than a laptop...
[22:26:12] <skunkworks> fenn: what problems?
[22:26:16] <Jymmmm> maddash laptops are getting cheap now $500
[22:27:12] <fenn> skunkworks: some kind of problem with interrupts i think
[22:27:29] <Jymmmm> fenn pc IRQ's ?
[22:27:29] <skunkworks> jepler: your etch-o-sketch video link doesn't work - the link doesn't go anywhere
[22:27:54] <skunkworks> fenn: is this your eithernet project?
[22:28:16] <fenn> trying to read an encoder with an attiny26.. i toggle a debug led each time i get a pulse with an interrupt routine.. but i get this square wave half the time
[22:28:56] <fenn> this is just a "lets see if we can get encoder reading to work" test
[22:29:18] <Jymmmm> fenn what not directly from a paraport pin?
[22:29:26] <fenn> no, no pc involved
[22:29:30] <Jymmmm> ah, ok
[22:34:01] <robin_sz> linear encoder .. they are the way forward
[22:34:43] <robin_sz> and backwards too, come to think of it
[22:34:52] <robin_sz> :)
[22:45:28] <alex_joni> jepler: I always thought the emc2, linux kernel and the like are crazy build schemes
[22:45:47] <alex_joni> seems I found a software which is way more crazy..
[22:46:12] <alex_joni> http://buildroot.uclibc.org/about.html
[22:55:37] <a-l-p-h-a> test
[22:55:38] <a-l-p-h-a> ok.
[22:58:13] <alex_joni> did you say something?
[22:58:26] <a-l-p-h-a> :)
[22:58:32] <a-l-p-h-a> trying out hydrairc
[22:58:47] <alex_joni> guess not..