#emc | Logs for 2005-10-31

[00:09:38] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/iotask/ioControl.cc: added a function to set _safe_ hal pin values, on estop, on init, etc.
[00:12:41] <alex_joni> hello.. anyone still around?
[00:15:16] <cradek> * cradek cheers at alex_joni
[00:15:22] <alex_joni> cradek: wot's wrong?
[00:15:28] <cradek> thanks for cleaning up that crap
[00:15:35] <alex_joni> ahh.. you probably seen the $log stuff :)
[00:15:39] <cradek> cheers, not jeers
[00:15:52] <alex_joni> no idea what jeers means :/
[00:16:31] <cradek> jeer (verb) [I or T]: to laugh or shout insults at someone to show you have no respect for them:
[00:16:46] <cradek> The people at the back of the hall jeered (at) the speaker.
[00:17:04] <alex_joni> ok.. thanks for todays lesson :P
[00:17:39] <cradek> anyway, thanks
[00:17:54] <alex_joni> np.. we talked about this a while ago.. just had it in the back of my head
[00:18:16] <cradek> yeah, it's good to get rid of it before the plague infects more files
[00:19:03] <alex_joni> changed CodingStyle in the process.. maybe you take a look if it's ok?
[00:19:20] <cradek> upping...
[00:19:42] <cradek> strange, it's in src, not docs
[00:19:55] <alex_joni> well.. it's about src/
[00:19:57] <cradek> % wc -l CodingStyle
[00:19:57] <cradek> 344 CodingStyle
[00:20:05] <cradek> yikes
[00:20:09] <alex_joni> a bit long?
[00:20:09] <alex_joni> :D
[00:20:16] <cradek> can we get that down to 66 lines or less?
[00:20:34] <alex_joni> if you can.. I have no problem with that...
[00:20:42] <alex_joni> but not wider than 255 chars :D
[00:20:50] <cradek> no, 80x66 definitely
[00:21:11] <alex_joni> heh.. ok, but there's a lot of info in there
[00:21:25] <cradek> yeah, I'm not entirely serious
[00:21:31] <cradek> but it looks a bit daunting
[00:22:03] <alex_joni> well.. I did recall I forgot how it started by the time I finished it the first time :)
[00:22:20] <cradek> yeah, and I find myself scanning instead of reading it
[00:22:59] <cradek> Implicit tests for zero should not be used except for boolean variables.
[00:22:59] <cradek> e.g. if (spindle_speed != 0) NOT if (spindle_speed)
[00:23:04] <cradek> I disagree
[00:23:27] <alex_joni> how come?
[00:23:42] <cradek> um, because ... don't we all know C here?
[00:23:58] <cradek> The form while(true) should be used for infinite loops.
[00:24:01] <cradek> I disagree
[00:24:19] <cradek> what's a true? There are several good ways to write that without depending on a define
[00:24:57] <cradek> Only loop control statements must be included in a for() construct.
[00:25:00] <cradek> I disagree
[00:25:16] <cradek> (and the NOT example won't compile)
[00:25:23] <alex_joni> you disagree a bit much today :)
[00:25:38] <cradek> you asked :-)
[00:25:56] <alex_joni> I asked about the paragraph I put in there
[00:26:03] <cradek> ohhhh
[00:26:05] <alex_joni> about CVS $foo's
[00:26:14] <cradek> well, I must have scanned over it
[00:26:18] <cradek> sorry, looking
[00:26:33] <alex_joni> CVS foo.. pretty much in the last 20%
[00:26:59] <alex_joni> CVS Special Fields
[00:28:17] <cradek> mind if I add a couple things?
[00:28:24] <alex_joni> not at all
[00:28:45] <alex_joni> au contraire
[00:29:08] <alex_joni> je suis enchante
[00:32:50] <jmkasunich> hi alex
[00:32:55] <jmkasunich> good changes
[00:32:59] <alex_joni> hello
[00:33:01] <alex_joni> hope so ;)
[00:33:05] <jmkasunich> did you test the stepgen one?
[00:33:12] <alex_joni> sure I did
[00:33:15] <jmkasunich> ok
[00:33:21] <alex_joni> works ok for me now
[00:33:24] <alex_joni> not so sure about the iocontrol stuff
[00:33:26] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich didn't know the syntax for array MODULE_PARMs
[00:33:34] <alex_joni> wanted to talk about you about that
[00:33:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni neither
[00:33:49] <alex_joni> but the first thing I tried, seemed to work :D
[00:34:02] <jmkasunich> I must admit I think Yabo's approach is nicer than the cfg=<some_string> method
[00:34:03] <alex_joni> about iocontrol.. what's your feeling about estop and hal-pins?
[00:34:13] <alex_joni> yes, easier to do/parse
[00:34:23] <alex_joni> maybe we should change them all like this
[00:34:29] <alex_joni> except the cfg="OOII" ones :)
[00:34:30] <jmkasunich> and just as user friendly, if not more so
[00:34:49] <alex_joni> gets rid of those nasty _, , parsings
[00:35:10] <jmkasunich> I've had problems with the quoted strings, when used in scripts, spaces within the strings sometimes mess things up
[00:35:22] <alex_joni> yes, I know
[00:35:24] <alex_joni> same here
[00:36:23] <jmkasunich> like the init_pins() fix
[00:37:03] <jmkasunich> hmm, that wasn't very clear
[00:37:09] <jmkasunich> I like the fix
[00:37:27] <alex_joni> which one?
[00:38:21] <jmkasunich> the init_hal_pins() one
[00:38:28] <jmkasunich> safe values are a good thing
[00:38:53] <alex_joni> yes.. not fully sure it doesn't block smthg.. need to simulate a machine with tool-changing again
[00:39:13] <alex_joni> but it's better to lock io up, then let it move freely as it was before
[00:39:18] <alex_joni> right?
[00:39:36] <jmkasunich> not sure what it was doing before
[00:39:49] <alex_joni> hmm.. mostof the values got reset
[00:40:04] <alex_joni> because of the NML, and the logic inside task
[00:40:11] <CIA-6> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/CodingStyle:
[00:40:11] <CIA-6> Quick first pass fixing grammar and spelling. There is still some work
[00:40:11] <CIA-6> to be done. Also, I added another paragraph talking about cvs logs. I
[00:40:11] <CIA-6> think it's really important. Lots of programmers completely misunderstand
[00:40:11] <CIA-6> the purpose of cvs logs (in my opinion).
[00:41:16] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich wonders how hard it would be to make a little user space program that had two HAL pins... when pin A goes true, the prog pops up a dialog with a predetermined message, like "Please change tool", and when the user clicks "OK", it asserts the other pin
[00:41:38] <jmkasunich> use that with your tool-prep and tool-prepped (or tool-change and tool-changed) pins for manual toolchange
[00:41:58] <jmkasunich> actually it wants one more pin, with the tool number
[00:42:16] <alex_joni> not very hard
[00:42:21] <alex_joni> pretty easy..
[00:42:32] <alex_joni> a simple bin/halcmd script might even do the trick :D
[00:42:38] <alex_joni> with message in it
[00:42:42] <robydeb> http://digilander.libero.it/informatico2003
[00:43:37] <jmkasunich> robydeb: what about it?
[00:47:15] <jmkasunich> alex: how would a simple script pop up a dialog?
[00:47:45] <alex_joni> well.. an xterm
[00:47:51] <robydeb> jmkasunih I have begun now
[00:48:27] <jmkasunich> alex, cradek - take a look at CodingStyle ;-)
[00:48:37] <robydeb> it will become in future an area wi-fi
[00:48:42] <alex_joni> what for?
[00:48:42] <jmkasunich> including $log$ in the file made a mess
[00:48:50] <jmkasunich> because CVS interpreted it
[00:48:54] <alex_joni> ohhh.. bummer that
[00:49:43] <robydeb> that of tasks of the Italian translation - English?
[00:50:38] <alex_joni> cradek: lol, that's why I added only $log to my paragraph, not $log$
[00:50:59] <jmkasunich> I guess cradek gets to fix it then
[00:52:19] <alex_joni> * alex_joni and jmkasunich point to cradek
[00:52:25] <robydeb> good bye
[00:52:52] <jmkasunich> bye
[00:53:27] <jmkasunich> I have no idea what he was talking about ;-/
[00:53:43] <jmkasunich> the URL was entirely in italian
[00:54:00] <jmkasunich> didn't see EMC or CNC or anything like that anywhere
[00:54:03] <alex_joni> there was some english translation..
[00:54:05] <jmkasunich> plenty of flash and stuff
[00:54:07] <alex_joni> but nothing worthy
[00:54:18] <alex_joni> some link to skype :)
[01:03:14] <cradek> alex_joni: oh nooo
[01:03:26] <cradek> alex_joni: I can't believe I didn't think of that
[01:03:31] <alex_joni> see what you've done? :))
[01:03:35] <alex_joni> LOL
[01:03:36] <cradek> argh
[01:03:43] <alex_joni> ROFL, it can happen
[01:03:50] <alex_joni> to anyone.. even to you :D
[01:11:30] <cradek> there
[01:11:33] <cradek> maybe I unscrewed it
[01:11:45] <CIA-6> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/CodingStyle: fix my screwup of the keywords
[01:12:03] <cradek> that was pretty easy - I checked out with -kk
[01:17:20] <Jacky^> nite
[01:17:27] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[01:26:02] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[01:26:04] <alex_joni> night guys
[03:38:57] <djb_rh> anyone here used a Shopmaster Eldorado combo mill/lathe?
[03:45:00] <jmkasunich> I have a Shoptask, a somewhat older version
[03:45:15] <jmkasunich> 1998 model
[03:45:34] <djb_rh> worth a damn?
[03:45:48] <jmkasunich> depends on what you compare it to ;-)
[03:45:51] <djb_rh> heh
[03:46:00] <jmkasunich> the lathe part isn't bad, the mill is limited
[03:46:22] <djb_rh> well, I've got a Bridgeport that I'm gonna update the CNC control on to EMC...right now it isn't usable (and doesn't even have manual controls)
[03:46:43] <djb_rh> and I was thinking about getting a mini-mill and mini-lathe and do the CNC conversions on them to learn about that part of the game
[03:46:45] <jmkasunich> as a mill, it's not terribly rigid, and the lack of a knee means you're always blocking jobs up to reach the spindle
[03:47:06] <djb_rh> and then I'd have small mill and lathe around
[03:47:16] <djb_rh> and I've have the big boy for big jobs
[03:47:19] <jmkasunich> if you have space for separates, that is probably the way to go
[03:48:01] <djb_rh> well, I do plan to do a good bit with plastics, too, so the small ones would be fine for that
[03:48:21] <jmkasunich> is the eldorado the one that has a traveling head standard?
[03:48:38] <jmkasunich> mine doesn't - and that sucks
[03:49:00] <jmkasunich> if you can raise/lower the head, that eliminates one major complaint
[03:49:00] <djb_rh> dunno
[03:49:51] <djb_rh> looking at his blocking in the pictures of it cutting, I don't think so
[03:49:58] <djb_rh> http://www.throwarock.com/CNC4Sale/pages/IMG_8717.htm
[03:50:18] <jmkasunich> nope
[03:50:32] <jmkasunich> that is very similar to mine, except for the tailstock
[03:50:48] <jmkasunich> my tailstock is older, has very limited travel (barely 1.5")
[03:51:04] <djb_rh> hmm
[03:51:12] <djb_rh> maybe the mini-mill is the way to go
[03:51:23] <jmkasunich> the Z travel on the Shoptask is only about 3"
[03:51:45] <djb_rh> I'm sure I can sell it after CNC conversion and not lose too much on it if I find I don't need it after I get the big boy working
[03:52:09] <jmkasunich> heh - you can never have too many mills
[03:52:19] <djb_rh> he who dies with the most tools wins
[03:52:20] <djb_rh> :)
[03:54:15] <jmkasunich> anyway, my $0.02 about shoptask (having owned one for 7 years): If you have space for separates, get separates
[03:54:34] <jmkasunich> if you need to fit a shop in a small space, the Shoptask isn't bad
[03:55:10] <jmkasunich> BTW, I now own a Van Norman #12 mill and a SouthBend 13" lathe, in addition to the Shoptask ;-)
[03:55:39] <jmkasunich> I still use the Shoptask though, because the two large machines are out in the unheated garage, the ST is in the basement where all my other tools are
[03:56:20] <djb_rh> heh
[03:56:43] <jmkasunich> ouch - he's asking $2700!
[03:57:13] <jmkasunich> I paid $1500 for mine (no CNC though)
[03:57:44] <jmkasunich> the Van Norman and South Bend put together cost less than the Shoptask ;-)
[04:09:59] <djb_rh> a new Shoptask is $2300 plus $399 in shipping without CNC
[04:10:11] <jmkasunich> pricy for chinese iron
[04:10:19] <djb_rh> the CNC bits are gonna cost another $1200 or so, I think (if you figure $500 for a PC), maybe more
[04:10:31] <djb_rh> it's easy over $4k in stuff
[04:10:33] <djb_rh> and it's local
[04:10:42] <jmkasunich> the one that guy is selling?
[04:10:47] <djb_rh> yeah
[04:11:04] <djb_rh> his is the "current" Shoptask model, from what I can tell
[04:11:05] <jmkasunich> where are you anyway?
[04:11:15] <djb_rh> oh shit, it's at least $4500 in stuff
[04:11:22] <djb_rh> the ball screws for that thing are $799
[04:11:25] <djb_rh> I'm in central NC
[04:11:32] <jmkasunich> the latest model has a head that can be raised and lowered, and a brace at the tailstock end that makes it more rigid
[04:11:39] <djb_rh> hmm
[04:11:51] <jmkasunich> ok, NC isn't exactly used machine Mecca, is it?
[04:12:28] <djb_rh> crap, you're right
[04:12:52] <jmkasunich> (I'm in Cleveland OH, where used American machines are fairly easy to find and cheap by comparison)
[04:13:12] <jmkasunich> living where you are, and with the ST machine local, it doesn't seem like a bad deal
[04:13:39] <djb_rh> yeah, but I think I'd still rather do the mini-mill/lathe thing
[04:14:13] <djb_rh> I know they'll do less, but they're enough for much of what I need and will be good for learning on since they don't take much space, either
[04:14:18] <djb_rh> and they're cheaper
[04:14:26] <djb_rh> and I'll learn more
[04:14:32] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:15:01] <jmkasunich> especially since you have the Bport anyway, you can get away with a little mill for now
[04:15:22] <jmkasunich> for a lathe, don't go too tiny, cause you'll want bigger soon enough
[04:15:52] <djb_rh> I still think mini-lathe is fine since I'll just learn with it and then sell it after I get a bigger one
[04:15:57] <jmkasunich> that works
[04:16:05] <djb_rh> any "loss" I take in selling it will be cheap education, I think
[04:16:19] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:16:24] <djb_rh> assuming it doesn't remove any limbs. :)
[04:16:56] <jmkasunich> if it's small enough that's unlikely ;-)
[04:17:01] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich knocks on wood
[04:17:04] <djb_rh> lol
[04:17:10] <djb_rh> just digits, then?
[04:17:14] <jmkasunich> yeha
[04:17:17] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:17:25] <djb_rh> well, you start with plenty of those
[04:17:33] <djb_rh> it's not like they are arms where you only have two
[04:17:40] <jmkasunich> still wanna keep them all
[04:17:46] <djb_rh> yeah, I'm joking
[04:17:47] <djb_rh> badly
[04:17:53] <jmkasunich> heh
[04:18:00] <djb_rh> hey, I race cars
[04:18:09] <djb_rh> I'll likely lose limbs that way long before any shop accidents
[04:18:13] <jmkasunich> yep
[04:18:14] <djb_rh> :/
[04:19:47] <djb_rh> guy answered my questions on the shoptask, but I told him thanks but no thanks
[04:20:03] <djb_rh> he makes model ships
[04:20:14] <djb_rh> but found he couldn't make hardly anything he needed without a 5 axis mill
[04:20:22] <jmkasunich> ah, that explains the wood dust on his mill
[04:20:25] <djb_rh> and he wasted too much time trying to draw the parts anyway
[04:20:30] <jmkasunich> and why he doesn't worry about rigidity
[04:20:36] <djb_rh> yeah
[04:20:38] <djb_rh> all plastic and wood
[04:20:56] <jmkasunich> could probalby do that with a sherline
[04:21:10] <djb_rh> can you get a 5 axis sherline?
[04:21:12] <djb_rh> I know they go four
[04:21:24] <jmkasunich> I don't know, I doubt it
[04:21:30] <djb_rh> but I thought the fourth was a rotating table
[04:21:36] <djb_rh> don't think you can make the head turn
[04:21:38] <jmkasunich> I doubt he really needs 5 axis, thats pretty radical stuff
[04:21:50] <djb_rh> hey, maybe he makes radical model ships
[04:21:52] <djb_rh> :)
[07:20:13] <CIA-6> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (25 files in 16 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Mon Oct 31 05:30:01 GMT 2005 "
[09:07:57] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[09:13:44] <alex_joni> morning
[13:07:08] <fenn> * fenn whines
[13:07:27] <alex_joni> wot's wrong fenn?
[13:07:40] <fenn> why would making axes and joints work right take a lot of changes?
[13:07:58] <alex_joni> because of the datapath to send the information
[13:08:06] <alex_joni> you need new NML messages
[13:08:11] <fenn> but you dont need to send anything
[13:08:16] <alex_joni> yes you do
[13:08:21] <fenn> dammit
[13:08:26] <alex_joni> because you're in a special case
[13:08:32] <alex_joni> XZA not XYZA
[13:08:40] <fenn> arg
[13:08:56] <alex_joni> and no-one reads that from the ini file, beside the GUI
[13:09:00] <fenn> where does motion number the axes?
[13:09:15] <alex_joni> in emcmot.c(emc1) or control.c(emc2)
[13:09:25] <alex_joni> but axes don't get numbered
[13:09:30] <alex_joni> they are always numbered the same
[13:09:42] <alex_joni> X=0, Y=1, Z=2, A=3, etc
[13:09:53] <fenn> so the problem is that joints dont get created 0 2 3
[13:09:55] <alex_joni> likewise for joints.. j0,j1,j2,j3 (in emc2)
[13:10:01] <alex_joni> yes
[13:10:13] <alex_joni> that would be one way to handle it.. j0,j2,j3
[13:10:33] <alex_joni> the other one is the one I said, link x to j0, z to j1, and a to j2
[13:10:58] <alex_joni> either way is very simple to change in the source code, very hard to automate
[13:11:11] <alex_joni> pass the info from the ini file to the RT motion part
[13:11:52] <alex_joni> * alex_joni would do it like this:
[13:11:59] <alex_joni> 1. copy trivkins.c to lathekins.c
[13:12:11] <alex_joni> 2. modify it accordingly (like described in the email)
[13:12:23] <alex_joni> 3. link lathekins inside the motion module
[13:12:25] <alex_joni> 4. run it
[13:12:34] <alex_joni> would take .. maybe 10 minutes
[13:13:57] <fenn> hmmm joints are called axes inside of hal.. bleh
[13:14:17] <alex_joni> lol..
[13:14:36] <alex_joni> they are called axes inside the ini too..
[13:14:42] <alex_joni> although joints is more appropiate
[13:16:40] <fenn> why is it always such a big deal to add an NML message?
[13:16:53] <alex_joni> it's not such a big deal
[13:17:00] <alex_joni> but what's the benefit in this case?
[13:17:19] <alex_joni> complicating the heck out of the code, to suit another .1% of the users?
[13:17:27] <alex_joni> which could make the change easily themselves?
[13:17:28] <fenn> hm, yes
[13:17:41] <alex_joni> I'm not ok with that
[13:17:51] <fenn> what's not quite as obvious is that if you have a "c" axis it gets mapped to the a axis
[13:18:10] <alex_joni> how do you mean that?
[13:18:39] <fenn> well, standard axis naming convention goes "x is parallel to a, y to b, z to c"
[13:18:45] <alex_joni> yes
[13:18:58] <alex_joni> that's how the interpreter assumes it
[13:19:20] <fenn> so if you have a c axis, then it will look like a is moving when it is actually c moving
[13:19:32] <alex_joni> depends on your kinematics file
[13:19:43] <alex_joni> and the set-up
[13:20:01] <alex_joni> if you have all 6 axes & joints, then "c" moving will look like "c" moving :P
[13:20:09] <fenn> but nobody has all 6 axes
[13:20:18] <alex_joni> ok.. then trivkins is not suited
[13:20:27] <alex_joni> in cases where some axes are missing
[13:20:28] <fenn> right, if nobody is ever happy, then it should be fixed
[13:20:34] <alex_joni> I am always happy
[13:20:53] <fenn> since nobody has a 6 axis mill (or do they?) trivkins is always busted if you have axes b or c
[13:21:09] <alex_joni> if you have XYZ then it's not busted
[13:21:19] <fenn> ok but you know what i mean right?
[13:21:46] <alex_joni> If you have special case machines (XZABC or XYABC or whatever) then it's not working right
[13:21:52] <alex_joni> but I don't see it as a bug
[13:21:56] <alex_joni> it's a misconfiguration
[13:22:13] <alex_joni> even if the configuration is inside a compileable file
[13:22:20] <fenn> hmmm
[13:22:25] <fenn> that seems poopy to me
[13:22:44] <alex_joni> rant on the list :)
[13:23:13] <alex_joni> see if others agree
[13:23:42] <alex_joni> I agree it's poopy..but I don't agree it's smthg to waste effort on right now
[13:24:10] <alex_joni> read "other priorities on emc2"
[13:24:32] <fenn> right you gotta get hal/nml figured out
[13:24:51] <alex_joni> there are:
[13:24:54] <alex_joni> nml-cleanup
[13:24:57] <alex_joni> hal-rework
[13:25:08] <alex_joni> nml<->hal component
[13:25:13] <fenn> trajectory planner fix
[13:25:14] <alex_joni> script component
[13:25:21] <alex_joni> tp fix / improvement
[13:25:25] <alex_joni> etc.
[13:26:34] <fenn> would it cause much of a stir if i went through and renamed all the wrong "axis" function/structs as "joint" functions
[13:26:37] <fenn> ?
[13:27:02] <fenn> probably not eh
[13:28:00] <fenn> actually i bet john would throw a fit because it changes the ini file
[13:28:42] <alex_joni_> hmm.. something fishy happened with my irc-sw
[13:29:08] <fenn> U h4v2 b33n h4X0r3d :P
[13:29:16] <alex_joni_> [13:37] <alex_joni> there is also the concearn about fusion in the back of my head
[13:29:16] <alex_joni_> [13:37] <alex_joni> seems rtai is dropping the current approach, and choosing a new way.. emc won't work on that as it is now..
[13:29:16] <alex_joni_> [13:38] <alex_joni> lathe stuff
[13:29:29] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[13:29:44] <alex_joni> I agree on the ini file...
[13:29:50] <alex_joni> it would cause too much confusion
[13:30:26] <fenn> is .ini file interoperability a goal for emc2?
[13:30:42] <fenn> (i realize this isn't worth breaking interoperability for)
[13:30:45] <alex_joni> dunno.. ask the board :)
[13:30:58] <fenn> hey you're on the board now right
[13:31:01] <alex_joni> NML interoperability is one thing I worry about
[13:31:09] <alex_joni> that's why I said ask the board, not me
[13:31:33] <alex_joni> maybe wait another week to ask the new board,
[13:31:52] <alex_joni> you'll probably not get an answer from this board
[13:35:54] <fenn> do you usually have to re-home a machine tool if you turn the power off? or mostly they have batteries or something these days?
[13:36:19] <alex_joni> depends on the machine tool
[13:36:29] <alex_joni> I can tell you how it is on robots if you like
[13:36:49] <fenn> ok
[13:37:31] <alex_joni> the oldest ones were using encoders, switches and index pulses for homing
[13:37:53] <alex_joni> the newer ones use resolvers (they know exactly where they are inside a rotation)
[13:38:07] <fenn> like an absolute position encoder?
[13:38:11] <alex_joni> they used some batteries to hold position when the control was switched off
[13:38:31] <alex_joni> kinda, but only on the current rotation (other rotations were kept in software counters)
[13:38:47] <alex_joni> newer systems used a nicer approach:
[13:39:10] <alex_joni> on shutdown there was a powersupply that held the voltages for another 30 seconds (off some big caps)
[13:39:26] <alex_joni> and the current position was stored inside some eeproms
[13:39:32] <alex_joni> and read on the next start-up
[13:39:34] <fenn> cool
[13:39:52] <alex_joni> the newest ones write it to some SRAM all the time
[13:40:00] <alex_joni> so power down shouldn't affect them
[13:40:06] <alex_joni> SRAM with battery afaik
[13:46:20] <alex_joni> but the best way would be abs-encoders if you ask me :)
[13:47:00] <fenn> well my motors already have incremental with index
[13:47:17] <alex_joni> then.. you could save the value on shutdown
[13:47:26] <alex_joni> given you have a normal shutdown procedure
[13:47:37] <alex_joni> but on powerloss you probably will have to rehome
[13:47:57] <alex_joni> also.. what happens if the axes/joints move during power-off
[13:48:08] <fenn> i think keeping the encoder chips on with batter power all the time is the best solution
[13:48:48] <fenn> maybe i will need some big batteries to keep 6 or 7 dsPIC's up all night
[13:49:20] <fenn> ah.. duh
[13:49:27] <alex_joni> what good does it do if the encoders are powered?
[13:49:36] <alex_joni> they won't do anything..
[13:49:40] <fenn> just run the control logic off a separate power supply like you should be doing anyway
[13:49:47] <fenn> control and encoders
[13:49:53] <alex_joni> right
[13:50:11] <fenn> not really any reason to shut down the control logic.. you can run it on a ups if it's an issue
[13:50:22] <fenn> * fenn pats his dumpstered UPS
[13:50:49] <fenn> glad i sorted that out
[13:51:28] <alex_joni> yup..
[13:51:50] <alex_joni> how do you plan to build the machine?
[13:52:23] <fenn> octahedral hexapod with acme screws
[13:53:00] <fenn> i need to find a bunch of cheap angular contact bearings
[13:53:16] <fenn> roller skate bearings will work for my desktop model, but not the big one
[13:54:16] <alex_joni> hexapod? why is that?
[13:54:33] <fenn> lots of reasons
[13:54:45] <fenn> 1 i like to make my own tools, and hexapod is much easier to make than a bridgeport
[13:54:49] <alex_joni> you'll have a lot of fun homing :)
[13:54:58] <fenn> 2 it's portable
[13:55:21] <fenn> 3 it looks cool
[13:55:38] <fenn> we'll see about the rest of the claims
[13:55:50] <fenn> supposedly hexapods are much more rigid, and accurate
[13:56:04] <alex_joni> if you build them right..
[13:56:18] <alex_joni> if you screw up position of joints, they don't work at all
[13:56:22] <fenn> right
[13:56:29] <fenn> i've seen some wonky designs out there
[13:56:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wishes you best of luck
[13:56:57] <fenn> i might end up using an icosahedral frame instead of an octahedron
[14:08:45] <alex_joni> fenn: like this: http://www.mel.nist.gov/photos/jpg/1hexa.jpg ?
[14:09:14] <alex_joni> http://www.mel.nist.gov/photos/jpg/1hexab.jpg
[14:09:20] <fenn> more or less, but with universal joints instead of spherical bearings
[14:09:45] <fenn> not that big either
[14:10:48] <fenn> have you seen till's "modell"?
[14:12:51] <fenn> that counts as a wonky design in my book :P
[14:13:24] <alex_joni> probably I've seen it
[14:13:28] <alex_joni> 3 versions?
[14:13:30] <alex_joni> iirc...
[14:13:35] <fenn> ja
[14:14:24] <fenn> i also like the ones where the spindle is supported by the 6 axes only and there's no frame
[14:14:26] <alex_joni> got the link handy? I've misplaced it
[14:14:53] <fenn> http://www.isw.uni-stuttgart.de/personen/t_franit/modell/
[14:16:57] <fenn> http://www.mathworks.com/access/helpdesk/help/toolbox/physmod/mech/mech_cad29.html#24008
[14:17:38] <alex_joni> that's for workpiece and fixed spindle?
[14:17:52] <alex_joni> or for spindle, but upside down?
[14:17:58] <fenn> either way really
[14:18:08] <alex_joni> I mean.. which one will you use?
[14:18:08] <fenn> that particular one looks like it's for positioning telescopes or something
[14:18:15] <alex_joni> usually yes
[14:18:36] <fenn> i will go with a frame with the spindle hanging down from the top of the frame
[14:19:09] <fenn> maybe
[14:19:18] <fenn> that's the fun of it
[14:20:21] <fenn> workholding is going to be interesting
[14:22:26] <alex_joni> and emc to control the biest?
[14:22:46] <fenn> emc looks better than anything else out there
[14:23:03] <alex_joni> probably the hexapod kins in there :D
[14:23:34] <fenn> i was thinking i could do "teleop" mode with brushed servos pretty easy
[14:23:45] <fenn> by constructing a hexapod-style joystick
[14:24:02] <fenn> then the joystick automatically does kinematics for you
[14:24:09] <fenn> good enough for a crane at least
[14:24:16] <alex_joni> hmm.. won't work on stiff kins
[14:24:27] <alex_joni> it'll break apart
[14:25:00] <fenn> because of differences between the joystick and the crane?
[14:25:17] <alex_joni> yup.. and probably because of aliasing errors
[14:25:28] <fenn> well i was thinking all analog
[14:25:28] <alex_joni> and imprecisions in the joystick
[14:35:13] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home
[15:26:03] <fenn> morning ray
[15:26:28] <rayh> Hi Ben. How you doing today?
[15:27:26] <fenn> i'm doing alright.. trying to figure out what to do today
[15:27:53] <rayh> Making pieces with that lathe?
[15:28:08] <fenn> that sounds like a good idea
[15:28:25] <fenn> i need to make a better toolpost
[15:29:51] <rayh> I didn't look at the toolpost at all.
[15:30:05] <rayh> 4 way or what?
[15:30:28] <fenn> actually it didn't come with a toolpost, so i grabbed one i found on the floor (and it didn't quite work right either)
[15:34:24] <rayh> Okay. The tool post takes a lot of force in a lot of different directions.
[15:34:45] <fenn> i'll be making one like this i think:
[15:34:47] <fenn> http://website.lineone.net/~victoria.ford/gt.htm
[15:34:52] <rayh> The do need to be held in place well.
[15:35:53] <fenn> the compound has this little ridge next to the t-slot clamping surface that gets in the way and doesn't seem to do anything
[15:36:02] <fenn> i want to just chop it off
[15:37:38] <rayh> The tool post in that link looks tough enough.
[15:39:45] <rayh> My only wonder is whether the threads in the alum will hold up over time.
[15:41:14] <rayh> Looking again at the third pic it looks like the tool holder might be steel.
[15:43:57] <fenn> i think i will make a little round nut that sits in a groove so that you aren't bending the screw as you clamp down
[15:44:23] <rayh> That would be a good plan.
[15:45:40] <rayh> A post like that will make tool allignment much quicker.
[15:46:31] <rayh> Say. How do I get a url from logger_aj?
[15:48:03] <fenn> logger_aj: bookmark
[15:48:03] <fenn> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2005-10-31#T15-48-03
[15:49:36] <rayh> Thanks
[17:00:05] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[17:39:31] <Jacky^> mmhh
[17:39:50] <Jacky^> anyone tried gthumb ?
[17:40:41] <Jacky^> ive about 40 photos, need to optimize them for web upload/download..
[17:41:54] <Jacky^> 40 pics maded in sicily island today :P
[17:42:39] <Jacky^> hi alex_joni !
[17:43:09] <alex_joni> 'lo
[17:43:10] <Jacky^> are you ?
[17:43:12] <Jacky^> ok
[17:43:14] <Jacky^> listen
[17:43:32] <Jacky^> i've about 40 photos, about 1 mb each
[17:43:58] <Jacky^> you know some app to optimize all for the web ? to upload donwload
[17:44:05] <Jacky^> about 300 kb each
[17:44:12] <alex_joni> I use ACDSee
[17:44:27] <Jacky^> made thumb too ?
[17:44:29] <alex_joni> but GIMP should be ok
[17:44:36] <Jacky^> i know gimp ..
[17:44:37] <alex_joni> ACDSee does it automagically
[17:44:50] <Jacky^> but using gimp i need to open one at time..
[17:44:54] <Jacky^> yeah
[17:44:58] <Jacky^> would be nice
[17:44:59] <alex_joni> there is script-fu
[17:45:06] <Jacky^> in gimp ?
[17:45:26] <Jacky^> someone suggest to me gthumb
[17:45:32] <Jacky^> but i never tried it
[17:45:43] <alex_joni> gimp has an own scripting language
[17:45:49] <alex_joni> but gthumb sounds ok
[17:45:58] <Jacky^> I know about gimp scripts
[17:46:02] <Jacky^> ok..
[17:46:16] <Jacky^> thanks , going to try it ..
[17:46:54] <Jacky^> nice photos todayyy :P
[17:53:50] <Jacky^> wooow
[17:54:03] <Jacky^> yeah gthumb is nicee :P
[18:24:55] <cncuser> good evening
[18:25:14] <cncuser> back from vacation :)
[18:28:03] <Jacky^> hey cncuser
[18:28:14] <Jacky^> what is vacation ?
[18:28:26] <Jacky^> holiday ?
[18:28:31] <cncuser> holiday
[18:28:33] <Jacky^> wow
[18:28:36] <Jacky^> im too
[18:28:38] <Jacky^> :)
[18:29:04] <Jacky^> not at all holiday .. but 60 %
[18:29:06] <Jacky^> hehe
[18:29:22] <cncuser> well, i had 100% holiday :)
[18:29:29] <cncuser> i fled from pyopengl
[18:29:31] <Jacky^> :P
[18:29:45] <Jacky^> i'm uploading some photos
[18:32:58] <cncuser> harhar
[18:33:00] <cncuser> swig -python -Iinterface -shadow -DAPI_VERSION=137 -o src/interface/GL.ARB._shader_objects.0089.inc interface/GL/ARB/shader_objects.i
[18:33:01] <cncuser> interface/GL/ARB/shader_objects.i:73: Error: Syntax error in input.
[18:33:35] <cncuser> thats the erroor message that did it for me. after that i straight called a friend who was going to to hollidays and said: im in :)
[18:34:15] <cncuser> dammit, still hasnt disapeared by itself
[18:34:20] <cncuser> stupid error
[18:36:56] <cncuser> got mesa, glut, tclTk, python ready for puppysit but. that pythonOpengl makes me headaches
[18:39:43] <jepler> yeah, it's a PITA to build
[18:40:44] <jepler> sudo chmod 000 `type -path swig` and start over from a fresh tarball
[18:41:09] <jepler> its swig interface files aren't compatible with modern versions of swig, but it includes pre-built versions of those files so all you need to do is make it think there is no swig available
[18:43:10] <cncuser> hi jepler: i got the old swig version. tight now i found out that im missing numpy :) its installing right now
[18:43:51] <cncuser> hmm, ok, thats wasnt it
[18:43:55] <jepler> numpy may be required to build pyopengl, but I don't think it's required for axis
[18:44:06] <jepler> we never import it directly, at any rate
[18:44:27] <cncuser> pyopengl needs it, says the docs
[18:44:33] <cncuser> hmm, ok, stuck again
[18:45:30] <cncuser> jepler: without swig it didnt compile either
[18:45:39] <cncuser> hmm, i start again from a fresh cvs checkout
[18:45:53] <cncuser> thisones 1 week old
[18:46:12] <jepler> the most recent version I've built is I think that's quite old, so all my advice may be wrong.
[18:46:56] <cncuser> damn dependency rattail
[18:47:24] <Jacky^> cncuser: http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/photos/reggio-messina/index2.html :P
[18:48:45] <cncuser> nice trip with the boat :)
[18:48:50] <Jacky^> woow
[18:48:54] <Jacky^> cool
[18:48:59] <Jacky^> nice day, today
[18:49:56] <Jacky^> i like this : http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/photos/reggio-messina/img021.jpeg :PP
[18:54:40] <Jacky^> LOL
[18:55:01] <Jacky^> this is of few minutes ago
[18:55:06] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/pics/anmary.jpg
[18:55:12] <Jacky^> :)
[18:56:36] <Jacky^> my gradson
[18:57:12] <Jacky^> thats ok
[18:57:20] <Jacky^> this camera seem work ok
[18:57:26] <Jacky^> E. 300 :/
[18:57:28] <Jacky^> hahaha
[18:57:37] <Jacky^> bought today
[18:58:17] <cncuser> src/interface/GL.ARB._shader_objects.0001.inc:1916: warning: `_doc_glInitShaderObjectsARB' defined but not used
[18:58:33] <Jacky^> cncuser: what is emc2 ?
[18:59:02] <Jacky^> a warnig should not be a great issue ..
[18:59:05] <Jacky^> i think
[18:59:18] <cncuser> Jacky^: error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
[18:59:22] <cncuser> follws the warnings
[18:59:25] <Jacky^> oh ..
[18:59:38] <Jacky^> then maybe youre not using the right gcc ver.
[19:00:00] <cncuser> gcc version 3.3.4
[19:00:07] <cncuser> should be ok
[19:00:11] <Jacky^> uhm
[19:00:14] <Jacky^> yeah ..
[19:00:19] <Jacky^> i used it
[19:00:37] <cncuser> well, really got no iea how to get this thing going
[19:00:52] <cncuser> im stuck with a python monster unable to be built
[19:01:35] <cncuser> dammit i really love to have axis with ouppysit
[19:01:55] <Jacky^> i'm unable to help you ..
[19:02:05] <Jacky^> isnt jepler around ?
[19:02:21] <Jacky^> cncuser: are you talking abous AXIS gui right ?
[19:02:21] <cncuser> also got no clues
[19:02:36] <Jacky^> :/
[19:02:37] <cncuser> hmmm, about oythonopengl
[19:03:23] <cncuser> puppysit can execute simple pythonprograms and hasa working glxgears. als thats missing is pyopengl
[19:04:29] <cncuser> well, i remember when i first tried to compile ardour (2 or 3 years ago) it took me a month to finish :) i dont have the nerves for for something like that anymore
[19:04:47] <Jacky^> :)
[19:05:06] <Jacky^> a little of patience ;)
[19:05:27] <cncuser> i made allmost a week break, and still no step forward
[19:05:35] <cncuser> i cant do more
[19:09:31] <cncuser> you cant see anything with this pyopengl, it throws out millions of warnings
[19:09:45] <Jacky^> mmm
[19:12:58] <cncuser> http:// box.hinternet.at/pyopenglerror.txt
[19:13:04] <cncuser> if anyone got a clou, tell me
[19:14:17] <ValarQ> hmm
[19:14:23] <cncuser> i really am not going to fiddle around with this shit anymore days. if i dont get it working today, i quit on trieng to get axis on the livecd. i want to finish it. i am not the one that could do the same shit every day, im bored.
[19:19:43] <cncuser> ic, the pyopengl stuff seems to be primary developed on windows... counting the carriage returns ..
[19:19:47] <alex_joni> cncuser: hello
[19:19:52] <cncuser> now im not wondering anymore
[19:20:00] <cncuser> hi alex_joni
[19:20:06] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just got back
[19:20:10] <alex_joni> what's the problem?
[19:20:16] <cncuser> alex_joni: soirry, couldnt make the upload, still not finished
[19:20:28] <cncuser> alex_joni: pyopengl doesnt compile
[19:20:52] <cncuser> alex_joni: and it doesnt give me much clues. i tried cvs version and PyOpenGL-
[19:21:04] <jepler> I wish I could help. Unfortunately, that error message doesn't ring any bells with me.
[19:21:09] <alex_joni> hmm.. strange
[19:21:35] <alex_joni> cncuser: I see only a warning
[19:21:39] <alex_joni> and then gcc existing
[19:21:45] <alex_joni> aren't there any other messages?
[19:22:00] <cncuser> alex_joni: you seen the box.hinternet.at/pyopenglerror.txt ?
[19:22:06] <alex_joni> nope
[19:22:16] <cncuser> thats the whole story
[19:22:29] <cncuser> package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/twburton/__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
[19:22:29] <cncuser> package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/suite/__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
[19:22:30] <cncuser> ....
[19:22:32] <cncuser> and so on
[19:22:48] <cncuser> but i cant find any of these, where should they come from
[19:22:56] <alex_joni> hmm.. smthg seems fishy
[19:23:04] <alex_joni> did you run all the steps necessary?
[19:23:15] <alex_joni> my first impression is smthg like configure didn't run
[19:23:19] <cncuser> alex_ joni: well i installed a bunch of pythonstuff
[19:23:23] <alex_joni> and you're compiling on unfinished data
[19:23:26] <cncuser> alex_ joni: there is no configure
[19:23:49] <cncuser> python setup.py build_w, python setup.py install
[19:23:50] <alex_joni> strange
[19:23:50] <cncuser> thats all
[19:24:01] <alex_joni> does any of the above complete?
[19:24:08] <cncuser> i dont get the python way of install/configure... it looks really sucky to mne
[19:24:19] <cncuser> yes the first
[19:24:29] <alex_joni> so only install is failing?
[19:24:51] <cncuser> guess so, at least i dont get any warnings with python setup.py build_w
[19:25:06] <cncuser> but the output alsp gives no clou on what has been done
[19:25:14] <cncuser> # python setup.py build_w
[19:25:15] <cncuser> Togl not to be built change config/linux2.cfg to enable
[19:25:15] <cncuser> running build_w
[19:25:15] <cncuser> swig -version
[19:25:15] <cncuser> SWIG Version 1.3.23
[19:25:15] <cncuser> Copyright (c) 1995-1998
[19:25:17] <cncuser> University of Utah and the Regents of the University of California
[19:25:19] <cncuser> Copyright (c) 1998-2004
[19:25:21] <cncuser> University of Chicago
[19:25:23] <cncuser> Compiled with g++ [i686-pc-linux-gnu]
[19:25:25] <cncuser> Please see http://www.swig.org for reporting bugs and further information
[19:25:27] <cncuser> #
[19:25:29] <cncuser> shitty software
[19:25:36] <alex_joni> hmm.. afaik Togl is needed.. right jepler ?
[19:25:40] <cncuser> why cant axis be built on fltk or something
[19:25:53] <alex_joni> filthy tk?
[19:26:01] <cncuser> hehe
[19:26:13] <cncuser> itas fast, small, and didnt ever made problems when compiling it
[19:26:16] <alex_joni> but Togl is needed for AXIS
[19:26:23] <cncuser> and it has opengl stuff
[19:26:26] <alex_joni> <cncuser> Togl not to be built change config/linux2.cfg to enable
[19:26:31] <alex_joni> that doesn't sound right
[19:26:38] <cncuser> aha
[19:26:43] <cncuser> ok, i can change that
[19:26:59] <alex_joni> put it on your website
[19:27:03] <alex_joni> jepler: you remember compiling pyOpenGL?
[19:27:39] <cncuser> ; a comma separated list of the libs needed when linking Togl^M
[19:27:39] <cncuser> ; the GL and GLU libraries are included automatically^M
[19:27:39] <cncuser> [Togl]^M
[19:27:39] <cncuser> libs=Xmu:Xt:m^M
[19:27:48] <cncuser> hmm, damn dosusers
[19:27:55] <Jacky^> :P
[19:28:15] <alex_joni> :)
[19:28:51] <cncuser> hmm
[19:29:00] <cncuser> dont get it how i can turn something on here
[19:29:07] <alex_joni> can you post the cfg?
[19:29:16] <cncuser> thats the part
[19:29:19] <cncuser> theres not much more
[19:29:41] <alex_joni> which pyOpenGL did you get?
[19:30:07] <cncuser> PyOpenGL-
[19:30:25] <alex_joni> alpha???
[19:30:36] <cncuser> hmm, not shure
[19:30:46] <alex_joni> Release Notes (alpha) [show only this release]
[19:31:26] <cncuser> why dont the just use configure, make and make install
[19:32:26] <alex_joni> can you try again?
[19:32:26] <alex_joni> the whole process.. ?
[19:32:34] <alex_joni> I'll walk it through with you
[19:32:44] <cncuser> well, ok
[19:33:00] <alex_joni> what python do you have?
[19:33:03] <alex_joni> 2.3 or 2.4?
[19:33:05] <cncuser> but i allso can copy the terminalbuffer into a textfile and put it online
[19:33:08] <Jymmm> 0.56b
[19:33:17] <cncuser> Python 2.4.2 (#3, Oct 31 2005, 23:18:49)
[19:33:33] <alex_joni> ok.. 2.4 sounds ok
[19:33:50] <alex_joni> get http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/pyopengl/PyOpenGL-
[19:34:30] <alex_joni> did you check the dependencies you need?
[19:34:44] <alex_joni> http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net/documentation/installation.html
[19:35:15] <cncuser> yes i have everything + numpy (mentionend in the docs)
[19:35:27] <alex_joni> GLUT, OpenGL and CLU
[19:35:29] <alex_joni> numpy
[19:35:30] <alex_joni> etc
[19:35:31] <alex_joni> =
[19:35:32] <alex_joni> ?
[19:41:57] <jepler> alex_joni: I vaguely remember compiling pyopengl.
[19:42:12] <jepler> alex_joni: The only thing I remember is the advice I gave earlier about "chmod 000 swig"
[19:42:30] <alex_joni> nah.. I think tk8.4 is missing
[19:42:33] <alex_joni> he only has tcl8.4
[19:42:37] <jepler> alex_joni: axis supplies its own copy of Togl, because at least for awhile the version included in pyopengl was badly broken (segfaulted when you tried to use it)
[19:42:46] <alex_joni> I remember
[19:42:47] <jepler> so don't worry about building the version of togl that is included with pyopengl
[19:42:50] <jepler> cncuser: ^^^^
[19:43:51] <alex_joni> jepler: I think tk8.4 is needed, right?
[19:44:16] <cncuser> hmmmm
[19:44:20] <cncuser> jepler: i ok
[19:46:08] <cncuser> anyone a clou where tpo get tk ?
[19:48:11] <cncuser> http://mesh.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/tcl/tk8.4.11-src.tar.gz
[19:48:13] <cncuser> got it
[19:49:17] <alex_joni> Tcl [show only this package]
[19:49:17] <alex_joni>
[19:49:17] <alex_joni> Release Notes 8.4.11 [show only this release]2005-06-28 13:32
[19:49:17] <alex_joni> Download tcl8.4.11-html.tar.gz734001 3577Platform-Independent.gz
[19:49:17] <alex_joni> Download tcl8.4.11-src.tar.gz3474428 27889AnySource .gz
[19:49:17] <alex_joni> Download tcl8411-src.zip3929559 17498AnySource .zip
[19:49:19] <alex_joni> Download tk8.4.11-src.tar.gz
[19:53:32] <cncuser> ok, tk was missing, got it, now trying with pyopengl-
[19:53:57] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ god bless you
[19:54:00] <Jacky^> hehe
[19:54:08] <Jacky^> :)
[19:54:43] <Jacky^> cncuser: youre not so lucky ..
[19:54:47] <Jacky^> im too ..
[19:55:03] <Jacky^> cat understand wgy 'lost' pixel uploading pics
[19:55:05] <Jacky^> :/
[19:55:17] <Jacky^> in local are ok
[20:00:56] <cncuser> hmm
[20:01:09] <alex_joni> any difference?
[20:01:12] <cncuser> no
[20:01:20] <cncuser> well, a little
[20:01:29] <cncuser> i hate this software 10% more then 5 minutes ago
[20:01:29] <alex_joni> can you post the log?
[20:01:36] <cncuser> its the same
[20:01:44] <cncuser> package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/dek/__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
[20:01:44] <cncuser> package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/dek/OglSurface/__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
[20:01:44] <cncuser> package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/GLE/__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
[20:01:44] <cncuser> package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/da/__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
[20:01:44] <cncuser> package init file 'OpenGL/scripts/__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
[20:01:45] <cncuser> ..
[20:01:50] <cncuser> allways the same
[20:02:30] <alex_joni> what did you run exactly?
[20:02:41] <cncuser> python setup.py build
[20:02:58] <alex_joni> did you build the other packages?
[20:03:01] <cncuser> i dont know what that runs
[20:03:04] <cncuser> what package ?
[20:03:06] <alex_joni> GLUT
[20:03:08] <alex_joni> OpenGL
[20:03:10] <alex_joni> GLU
[20:03:12] <alex_joni> pynum
[20:03:14] <alex_joni> etc. ?
[20:03:28] <alex_joni> tcl/tk
[20:03:40] <cncuser> i built mesa, glut, tcl, tk, pynum
[20:03:44] <cncuser> whats glu ?
[20:03:55] <alex_joni> OpenGL 1.1 and GLU
[20:03:57] <alex_joni> no idea
[20:04:11] <cncuser> i can run glxgears
[20:04:16] <cncuser> so the gl part should be ok
[20:04:26] <alex_joni> ok.. but also dev part of that?
[20:04:42] <cncuser> i compile from source
[20:05:00] <cncuser> so of course, i allways have the dev part
[20:05:03] <cncuser> else i coukldnt
[20:05:06] <alex_joni> that doesn't neccessarely mean dev part gets installed into place
[20:05:31] <cncuser> ok
[20:05:34] <alex_joni> it's not enough to build those components
[20:05:34] <alex_joni> you need to install them
[20:05:34] <alex_joni> make install
[20:05:34] <alex_joni> or python foo install
[20:05:52] <cncuser> shure i do a make install
[20:06:03] <cncuser> everithing is installed
[20:06:12] <Jymmm> make clean
[20:06:27] <cncuser> Jymmm: make dissapear
[20:06:51] <cncuser> well
[20:06:57] <Jymmm> * Jymmm makes cncuser go *POOF*
[20:07:12] <cncuser> :)
[20:07:16] <alex_joni> :P
[20:08:02] <Jymmm> alex_joni you wanna play like that?
[20:08:12] <alex_joni> not really .. too tired for that :)
[20:08:14] <cncuser> poof was the sound the small nightcrawlers in a xmen comic i read 10 years ago made when the treleport :)
[20:08:18] <alex_joni> was meant as a joke :P
[20:09:14] <Jymmm> damn I need like 1/16 cutters =(
[20:09:19] <cncuser> is there some other modern looking gui for emc2 ?
[20:09:25] <alex_joni> nope
[20:09:27] <alex_joni> :)
[20:09:31] <Jymmm> axis is it
[20:09:43] <alex_joni> Jymmm: note the "other" in there
[20:09:44] <Jymmm> though you could create your own
[20:09:46] <cncuser> Jymmm: you name it
[20:10:20] <cncuser> well
[20:10:24] <cncuser> its to big for me
[20:10:27] <Jymmm> alex_joni note the " make your own if you dont like" in there
[20:10:40] <alex_joni> right.. that's a regular expression :)
[20:10:46] <cncuser> i dont know poython, i dont know what that stupid setup.py oinstall routines are for
[20:10:58] <cncuser> and i just cant get it to work
[20:11:29] <cncuser> also i have fucked up my develimage with dozens of megs of stuff only needed for axis
[20:11:46] <cncuser> i go clean
[20:11:53] <alex_joni> yup.. make it small again
[20:12:05] <alex_joni> ask cradek or jepler if they can make it work you'll include it
[20:12:10] <alex_joni> binaries I mean :D
[20:12:37] <cncuser> alex_joni: i dont think they have interest in it
[20:12:44] <cncuser> whatver
[20:12:52] <alex_joni> they will at one point I think..
[20:13:17] <alex_joni> and if not.. well, maybe one day puppy-emc will be used intensively, then it'll be worth the trouble
[20:14:13] <cncuser> maybe, right now im more or less on my own, and i have a problem with not finishing stuff i intendet to finish within a specific time. i loose all interest, start to hate all parts, thorw it in a dump, and never look at it again.
[20:14:41] <cncuser> im aware of that, but i cant do anything against it
[20:15:14] <fenn> cncuser: if it makes you feel better, I also gave up on compiling axis
[20:15:17] <cncuser> well, i put the stuff onoline i got when its cleaned. and thats it. nomore puppysit
[20:15:17] <Jymmm> you are going thru headaches just because of the GUI ?
[20:15:19] <alex_joni> right.. so skip python, pyopengl, glu, glut, whatever there is more to it..
[20:16:54] <Jymmm> cncuser: you are going thru headaches just because of the GUI ?
[20:17:03] <cncuser> Jymmm: yes
[20:17:14] <cncuser> Jymmm: because of some part the gui needs, pyopengl
[20:17:24] <Jymmm> why?
[20:17:34] <alex_joni> because it's a nice GUI
[20:17:46] <cncuser> Jymmm: like alex_joni says
[20:18:01] <cncuser> fenn: its no problem to compile axis on a debiansystem
[20:18:33] <cncuser> hmmm
[20:18:40] <fenn> cncuser: i'm using fedora
[20:18:51] <fenn> redhat's opengl package is screwy
[20:18:56] <cncuser> fenn: :(
[20:19:13] <Jymmm> fdisk
[20:19:33] <alex_joni> zwisk: hello
[20:20:50] <zwisk> hello...
[20:21:03] <alex_joni> it's been a long time
[20:21:08] <Jacky^> hi........
[20:21:11] <Jacky^> :)
[20:21:26] <zwisk> indeed. I was working on the Grand Challenge for a while, which superceded all else...
[20:21:35] <zwisk> hi Jacky...
[20:21:37] <alex_joni> cool.. what team?
[20:21:43] <zwisk> Team Underdawg
[20:21:48] <fenn> how precisely did it crash and burn?
[20:21:52] <fenn> * fenn cackles
[20:21:55] <zwisk> Very preciesely :)
[20:21:55] <alex_joni> zwisk: probably you don't know any of the new guys around here..
[20:21:56] <cncuser> ok, i out the user iso on my usbstick
[20:22:11] <cncuser> gonna go to the next internetputer and uplaod it. cu later
[20:22:15] <alex_joni> zwisk: some really wacko's around lately
[20:22:21] <zwisk> true enough. Seems emc gets a little churn. But that's cool. Keeps it fresh.
[20:22:57] <zwisk> I thought I'd try getting axis up and running with emc2. Anybody know if the latest of each work with each other?
[20:23:09] <alex_joni> yup.. should
[20:23:13] <zwisk> cool.
[20:23:36] <alex_joni> some changes happened around here, but nothing too fancy
[20:24:00] <alex_joni> there's an election for a new board coming up
[20:24:13] <zwisk> Yup... saw that.... Pretty cool.
[20:25:06] <alex_joni> maybe emc will get moving..
[20:26:23] <zwisk> Lots has changed on the website in the last many months too... the wiki is great.
[20:26:34] <alex_joni> yes, the wiki is great
[20:26:43] <alex_joni> but the website _will_ change a lot
[20:27:25] <zwisk> Cool. I think it could use a refresh. Maintenance of websites is one of those things that hardly ever gets done enough, especially in open source projects.
[20:27:34] <alex_joni> right
[20:31:38] <Jacky^> hi zwisk .....
[20:32:04] <zwisk> jowdy Jacky
[20:32:10] <zwisk> urr.. howdy that should be
[20:32:15] <Jacky^> very nice day here :P
[20:32:18] <alex_joni> it is to spanish people
[20:32:23] <Jacky^> bought sony camera
[20:32:45] <Jacky^> and maded some nice ptohos this afternoon
[20:32:59] <Jacky^> take a look to these fish http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/photos/reggio-messina/img002.jpeg
[20:33:01] <zwisk> Gonna take pictures of chips flying off a machine? :)
[20:33:02] <Jacky^> hahaha
[20:33:03] <Jacky^> coool
[20:33:18] <Jacky^> think
[20:33:24] <Jacky^> about 50 mt up
[20:33:27] <Jacky^> i was..
[20:33:36] <Jacky^> :P
[20:33:41] <alex_joni> what's that photo supposed to be?
[20:33:52] <zwisk> I see a lot of blue. You sure there
[20:33:54] <Jacky^> alex_joni: cant you see the fish ?
[20:33:55] <zwisk> are fish in there?
[20:33:59] <Jacky^> nahh
[20:34:01] <alex_joni> nope
[20:34:03] <fenn> i only see a bunch of sharks
[20:34:12] <Jacky^> ist there a fish !
[20:34:15] <Jacky^> :D
[20:34:31] <Jacky^> look well
[20:34:34] <Jacky^> haha
[20:35:13] <Jacky^> the ssmall points you seen are fish :P
[20:35:35] <zwisk> Sure those aren't bubbles? :)
[20:35:42] <Jacky^> ghghghg
[20:35:47] <Jacky^> sure :D
[20:36:05] <fenn> no they are definitely sharks
[20:37:08] <Jacky^> haha nahh
[20:37:24] <Jacky^> btw solved with the upload 'lost pixel' issue
[20:37:34] <Jacky^> was binary mode not ascii :/
[20:37:44] <Jacky^> but
[20:37:50] <Jacky^> it seem to me slow ..
[20:38:01] <Jacky^> alex_joni website is faster :P
[20:38:07] <fenn> .jpg files should be binary
[20:38:23] <Jacky^> mmhh.. not familiar with it
[20:38:33] <fenn> it probably just messed up and didn't mess up the second time
[20:38:34] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/photos/reggio-messina/index2.html
[20:38:38] <Jacky^> how is ?
[20:38:44] <Jacky^> it seem to me slow ..
[20:39:08] <Jacky^> i used gthumb
[20:39:31] <fenn> fast enough for me.. there are visible rectangles around the thumbnails that aren't quite the same as the background
[20:39:42] <Jacky^> fenn: wich connection ?
[20:39:49] <fenn> dsl
[20:39:55] <Jacky^> yeah..
[20:40:05] <Jacky^> how nuch fast ?
[20:40:09] <Jacky^> in download
[20:40:34] <Jacky^> im going 1mb download
[20:40:37] <fenn> i dunno.. 150k or so
[20:40:50] <Jacky^> mmhh.. then should be good
[20:41:11] <Jacky^> assuming youre outside my contry too
[20:41:46] <Jacky^> I found alex_joni website very fast
[20:42:03] <alex_joni> heh.. you did?
[20:42:03] <Jacky^> not in thumbnails .. i mean
[20:42:10] <Jacky^> alex_joni: yeah
[20:42:17] <alex_joni> you mean download speed?
[20:42:18] <Jacky^> loadin full picture is fassst
[20:42:24] <alex_joni> it should be..
[20:42:29] <alex_joni> it's on a 100MBit link
[20:42:41] <Jacky^> uhm
[20:42:55] <alex_joni> you probably don't have enough to stress it out
[20:42:59] <Jacky^> 44878 2005-10-31 18:52 img021.jpeg.medium.jpeg
[20:43:07] <Jacky^> this the size for medium ..
[20:43:17] <Jacky^> 144789 2005-10-31 18:52 img021.jpeg
[20:43:23] <Jacky^> this for full
[20:43:38] <Jacky^> not too much ..
[20:43:40] <Jacky^> i think
[20:44:14] <alex_joni> nope
[20:44:28] <alex_joni> I have some at about 1.2Megs :D
[20:44:35] <Jacky^> but.. it seem to me slow , from my browser
[20:44:42] <Jacky^> deleting cache first
[20:45:10] <fenn> computers will suck up all your time if you let them
[20:45:23] <Jacky^> :)
[20:45:29] <Jacky^> np
[20:45:33] <fenn> they are a form of time machine
[20:45:38] <fenn> the time-sink
[20:46:10] <fenn> an excess of time is quickly dissipated into the intricate fins of the device
[20:46:30] <fenn> * fenn goes back to work
[20:47:14] <zwisk> yeah.... I'm just tired of always waiting for computers ;)
[20:47:33] <alex_joni> no matter how fast they get, you still get to wait for them..
[20:47:50] <zwisk> yup. The one *true* constant of the universe. :)
[20:48:53] <alex_joni> as they get fast every 18 months, you'll still wait the same amount of time (every 18 months)
[20:49:50] <cncuser> wb
[20:50:26] <alex_joni> heh.. wb
[20:52:27] <cncuser> wget http://box.hinternet.at/puppysit.iso
[20:53:00] <cncuser> the all new puppysit, with 2.4.31 kernel, even smaller + mail, webbroser, xchat @ puppy 1.0.5
[20:53:26] <cncuser> also i changed the usb behavior
[20:53:38] <cncuser> as there is muich trouble with usb 2.0 flash
[20:53:50] <cncuser> it defaults to use all as usb 1.0
[20:54:14] <alex_joni> cncuser: hang on, I'll mirror it
[20:55:19] <alex_joni> weee :)
[20:55:22] <alex_joni> 1MB/sec
[20:55:26] <cncuser> :)
[20:55:48] <alex_joni> done
[20:56:01] <alex_joni> 21 seconds :D
[20:56:12] <cncuser> for 29 mb :)
[20:56:43] <alex_joni> should I leave the old ctx10b.iso? or only the new one?
[20:56:53] <cncuser> please remove the old
[20:57:10] <cncuser> i can only support one release
[20:57:29] <alex_joni> done
[20:57:37] <cncuser> thank you very much :))
[20:58:13] <alex_joni> almost done ;)
[20:58:30] <cncuser> you can put cncuser@hinternet.at as contakt email on your website
[20:58:55] <cncuser> i just found out that i forgot to include my email :)
[21:01:44] <cncuser> well, the deviliso... hmm, i should have made a backup before starting with the pythonstuff. i try to finish it as soon as possible and tell you when i put it online so you can mirror it
[21:02:05] <alex_joni> ok.. you can drop me an email..
[21:02:22] <cncuser> right now it 500mb :)
[21:02:39] <cncuser> but i remmeber it was about 300mb earlier
[21:03:09] <alex_joni> still quite a bit :)
[21:03:26] <cncuser> yes
[21:04:01] <cncuser> alex_joni: its the complete puppy 1.0.5 + puppy unleashed + kernel source + emc, rtaissource
[21:04:14] <alex_joni> I know...
[21:04:43] <cncuser> the puppy unleashed packages are about 200mb alone
[21:05:12] <alex_joni> 108 downloads on ctx10b
[21:05:16] <alex_joni> want that to count on?
[21:05:25] <alex_joni> or a different count for puppysit ?
[21:05:36] <cncuser> differnet count please :)
[21:05:50] <cncuser> nice, so ctx has around 250 downloads, woow
[21:07:31] <cncuser> alex_joi: but i dont need to have access to it. i may ask you every week or so :)
[21:09:40] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[21:11:32] <cncuser> ok, gotta drink some beer, this here is no internetcaffee ;)
[21:11:39] <alex_joni> :))
[21:11:47] <cncuser> cu tomorrow folks
[21:18:45] <lerman> alex_joni: I'm starting to look at the trajectory planner. I'd like to understand it, and I find the fact that it permits infinite jerk to be unesthetic. Also, I seem to still have some blending problems with circles (although it might be that I have configuration or mechanical problems). So... Can you tell me how and where circular (helical) interpolation is done?
[21:19:04] <alex_joni> not really :/
[21:19:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't know enough about that
[21:19:38] <lerman> Do we know who does?
[21:19:45] <etla> there's a funny paragraph in the nist g-code interpeter doc...
[21:20:15] <alex_joni> lerman: not really
[21:20:31] <alex_joni> paul_c looked at it for some time (not sure how much he grasped)
[21:20:33] <lerman> :-(
[21:20:44] <alex_joni> les knows a bit, not about coding (more about theory)
[21:21:00] <alex_joni> probably you'll be best if you send an desperate email to FredP
[21:22:33] <lerman> Yeah, I've read and understand the note that les produced. I haven't studied the code that implements it, though. I figure that once I've done that, modifying it to limit the acceleration should be straightforward (use four points instead of three...).
[21:23:14] <lerman> etla: Are you going to tell us what the funny paragraph says???
[21:23:24] <etla> there are two.
[21:23:41] <etla> first: The canonical machining functions share with the RS274 language the simplifying assumption
[21:23:41] <etla> that machine dynamics can be almost ignored. That is, in this model, acceleration and
[21:23:41] <etla> deceleration do not occur. Components of the machining center can be told to move at a specific
[21:23:41] <etla> rate, and that rate is imagined as being achieved instantaneously. Stopping is also imagined as
[21:23:41] <etla> instantaneous. This model obviously does not correspond with reality. The control modes
[21:23:42] <etla> provided here provide some compensation for this lack of consideration of dynamics.
[21:24:06] <jepler> darn, cncuser is gone?
[21:24:15] <alex_joni> jepler: yes
[21:24:22] <etla> second one: In CANON_CONTINUOUS mode, the control tries to keep the feed rate constant and does not
[21:24:22] <etla> try to keep the controlled point exactly on the path at all times. Rather, at junctures between
[21:24:22] <etla> moves where the direction changes sharply, the corner is rounded. There is a maximum allowable
[21:24:22] <etla> deviation at such junctures, and the control should never allow that to be exceeded; acceleration
[21:24:22] <etla> and deceleration may be performed if necessary to do this.
[21:24:22] <alex_joni> any new ideas?
[21:24:23] <etla> Currently, there is no function to set the maximum deviation allowable in
[21:24:24] <etla> CANON_CONTINUOUS mode.
[21:24:51] <etla> so when you switch G64 on, there is absolutely no tolerance for the trajectory planner whatsoever :)
[21:25:00] <etla> it really shows if you have max_acc set low
[21:25:54] <lerman> etla: how low is low? (not to be confused with how long is a chinese name). :-)
[21:26:17] <alex_joni> low
[21:26:22] <alex_joni> * alex_joni grins
[21:26:27] <etla> I think I tried with 1/3 of max vel i.e. it takes 3s to accelerate up to G0 speed
[21:27:32] <etla> also, moves are blended into eachother regardless of angle between them.
[21:29:47] <lerman> Well, that can't be my problem, because I'm cutting full circles and have problems where the half circles intersect. At those points they are tangent to each other and the angle between the line segments is zero. But I still haven't found the code that actually does the circular interpolation. Does it break the circles into small line segments? Or does it do circular interpolation at a...
[21:29:49] <lerman> ...lower (closer to the hardware) level?
[21:37:53] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[21:51:27] <Yuga> * Yuga slaps Jacky^ around a bit with a large trout
[21:51:42] <fenn> i think circular interpolation is done in the (drumroll) interpolator
[21:51:55] <fenn> not in the trajectory planner
[21:52:22] <fenn> but there may be some kind of blending going on there too..
[21:53:21] <etla> so who goes first, traj-planner or interpolator ??
[21:53:31] <fenn> "when in doubt, dike it out"
[21:53:56] <lerman> fenn: gee whoda thunk it. Could you tell me which piece of code has the interpolator?
[21:54:29] <etla> I see sin, cos, atan2 and such in /src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_arc.cc
[21:55:07] <alex_joni> hold your horses
[21:55:10] <alex_joni> what interpolator?
[21:55:19] <alex_joni> you mean the cubic one?
[21:55:26] <alex_joni> that's used after the TP has finished
[21:55:52] <alex_joni> etla: the TP does circle interpolation
[21:55:57] <alex_joni> not sure where
[21:56:00] <alex_joni> probably somewhere inside tc.c
[21:56:10] <etla> ok...
[21:56:50] <etla> so the input to the TP is restricted to the the canonical lines and arcs
[21:58:26] <alex_joni> right
[21:59:35] <etla> and the exact output format of the TP ? a stream of position commands at the servo loop rate ??
[22:00:27] <alex_joni> etla: yes
[22:00:37] <alex_joni> generated by calling tpPos or smthg like htat
[22:00:39] <alex_joni> that
[22:05:46] <etla> I wonder where the different modes G61 G61.1 and G64 are in the TP...
[22:07:36] <etla> maybe circles are just special cases of cubic interpolation done in cubic.c ?
[22:07:40] <alex_joni> heh.. think I really need to set you right on this one
[22:07:55] <etla> ok :)
[22:08:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni opens the sources
[22:09:34] <alex_joni> case EMCMOT_SET_TERM_COND:
[22:09:34] <alex_joni> /* sets termination condition for motion emcmotDebug->queue */
[22:09:34] <alex_joni> rtapi_print_msg(RTAPI_MSG_DBG, "SET_TERM_COND");
[22:09:34] <alex_joni> tpSetTermCond(&emcmotDebug->queue, emcmotCommand->termCond);
[22:09:34] <alex_joni> break;
[22:09:44] <alex_joni> inside motion control (command.c)
[22:10:04] <alex_joni> term_cond is used to make the difference between exact stop and feed
[22:10:45] <etla> ok...
[22:10:46] <alex_joni> so tpSetTermCond() is the one that does it for the TP
[22:10:47] <alex_joni> I guess :)
[22:11:04] <alex_joni> but like I said.. I know very little about this *g*
[22:11:18] <etla> and the motion controller comes after the trajectory planner ?
[22:11:35] <alex_joni> before
[22:11:49] <alex_joni> the motion controller is the one that feeds data to the TP
[22:11:50] <alex_joni> and expects results
[22:12:51] <etla> hmm...
[22:13:19] <alex_joni> what?
[22:13:27] <fenn> * fenn wonders why this is all so complicated
[22:13:37] <alex_joni> how would you do it?
[22:13:50] <fenn> well i probably wouldn't call it TermCond for one..
[22:14:15] <alex_joni> I know, it would be called fenn_s_special_function_beta
[22:14:44] <fenn> obviously
[22:14:44] <etla> like jmka said the other day, I think more clearly defined interfaces and more modular code would be easier to 'get'
[22:14:56] <fenn> yeah, what he said
[22:16:34] <etla> HAL probably goes a long way towards that for the pid loops, hw interfaces etc.
[22:16:38] <jepler> does somebody have "cncuser"'s e-mail address?
[22:16:49] <alex_joni> jepler: read back
[22:16:51] <etla> but above that it seems kind of monolithic
[22:17:09] <fenn> i think some comments at the top of each source file explaining what the stuff in that file does would help make a lot of sense out of it all
[22:17:46] <etla> maybe more detailed flowcharts also
[22:18:03] <etla> is http://home.att.net/~jmkasunich/EMC_Docs/EMC_Control_LG.gif correct for the current EMC2 debelopment ?
[22:18:31] <alex_joni> mostly
[22:25:25] <fenn> what does tc stand for?
[22:25:34] <alex_joni> no idea
[22:27:22] <fenn> "TOO COMPLICATED!!!"
[22:27:52] <alex_joni> probably
[22:35:54] <fenn> rayh: i never even got started on the toolpost.. *weep*
[22:36:20] <rayh> So many pedistrians so little time.
[22:36:49] <alex_joni> hi ray
[22:37:05] <rayh> Has anyone tried remastering puppy -- the emc version?
[22:37:12] <rayh> Hi alex
[22:37:23] <alex_joni> not yet
[22:37:46] <rayh> The remaster script says it doesn't find gcombust and fails.
[22:38:06] <rayh> I was wondering if this was a package they left out for the emc version.
[22:38:43] <alex_joni> hmm.. not sure
[22:38:59] <rayh> I'll ask when I see him.
[22:39:33] <alex_joni> ok
[22:39:59] <rayh> Nice simple set of tools on the distro.
[22:57:09] <alex_joni> does it work ok?
[22:58:33] <alex_joni> rayh: think the emc-mazak channel is still usefull?
[23:05:06] <rayh> probably not. We can sort though the issues here and wiki.
[23:05:25] <alex_joni> I can leave it running.. have no problem with that
[23:07:29] <rayh> Then let's do.