#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-13

[00:00:03] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes, exactly what I had, and did, on Saturday
[00:00:22] <Tom_itx> just telling you my results. tried multiple times
[00:00:23] <JT-Shop> same here a 525 with HD and a CD drive
[00:00:37] <PCW> mmm jambalaya
[00:02:03] <andypugh> Who is LiveCD generalissimo? Cradek?
[00:02:08] <Tom_itx> cd burned on a windoz machine
[00:02:25] <JT-Shop> second install no CNC menu even after seeing it during "test ubuntu"
[00:02:33] <JT-Shop> dang if I know
[00:02:52] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: me too burned on a winblows machine
[00:02:53] <andypugh> I didn't actually burn a CD, I made a USB stick bootable using the Ubuntu utility and the .iso file. I wonder if that matters?
[00:02:56] <Tom_itx> well if you just need it, grab it from the link i pasted
[00:03:05] <JT-Shop> be back in a bit when I get the Jambalaya going
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[00:29:04] <JT-Shop> I guess I'll download to a ubuntu machine but I don't think that makes any difference
[00:29:22] <JT-Shop> funny thing is the CNC menu shows up trying but not when you install
[00:29:33] <Tom_itx> i doubt it if it's an issue with the CD
[00:30:55] <JT-Shop> you mean burning the CD?
[00:31:39] <JT-Shop> I know the livecd worked at least once for me as the BP has 2.5 installed
[00:32:03] <Tom_itx> mine never did
[00:32:17] <Tom_itx> as far as installing linuxcnc
[00:32:21] <Tom_itx> it installed ubuntu fine
[00:34:38] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I think the livecd is mozmck
[00:34:53] <JT-Shop> but I might be full of shit and not know it
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[00:42:34] <mozmck> hi JT-Shop: I thought the LiveCD had 2.4 on it? but I don't remember as that has been 2 years. Has it been updated?
[00:42:51] <Tom_itx> yes
[00:42:53] <Tom_itx> 2.5
[00:43:06] <andypugh> I donloaded the LiveCD .iso from the US source. I used it as the install media for a new VM under VMWare fusion. It instaled and ran and has a CNC menu and runs the latency test (7mS Jitter in the VM :-)
[00:43:11] <Tom_itx> but at least with my experience it only installs ubuntu
[00:43:16] <JT-Shop> hi mozmck yes it has 2.5 or at least once I've installed 2.5 from the livecd
[00:43:52] <JT-Shop> I wonder if it has to do with only a couple of mb of free space and winblows
[00:43:52] <Tom_itx> i'm told there is a choice early on to install or run but i never see that option
[00:44:05] <JT-Shop> I'm burning it now with ubuntu
[00:44:28] <mozmck> I haven't watched closely, but I haven't heard of that problem. I always had EMC (LinuxCNC) after it's installed.
[00:45:13] <andypugh> I used the file ubuntu-10.04-linuxcnc2-i386.iso last updated 17th April. It worked as expected.
[00:45:17] <Tom_itx> my old one installs fine
[00:45:22] <Tom_itx> just 2.5
[00:45:30] <andypugh> So, back to the Indian Burial Ground Hypothesis
[00:47:21] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: when you first see a couple of images at the bottom of the screen you get a menu if you hit a key
[00:48:04] <Tom_itx> i could try it on my SSD
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[00:48:21] <Tom_itx> don't wanna mess up my fresh install
[00:48:36] <FinboySlick> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_qHR_H_2cg <- This thing makes me cry with envy.
[00:48:59] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, if that fixes it someone should mention that on the site
[00:49:01] <mozmck> I see. The I missed that the liveCD was updated. Still sounds odd. You should be able to run the install script I would think.
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[00:50:17] <FinboySlick> It does *everything*.
[00:50:26] <JT-Shop> if I just select try the cd the CNC menu shows up
[00:50:47] <JT-Shop> I'm trying to install from the first menu from a CD burned in ubuntu now
[00:51:24] <JT-Shop> threat milling?
[00:52:05] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: It's so intimidating that it just threatens the metal to shape itself or else...
[00:52:14] <JT-Shop> LOL
[00:52:55] <FinboySlick> 2:25 shows a lovely set of tools too.
[00:53:57] <JT-Shop> I'm still at 0:51
[00:53:58] <FinboySlick> It probably costs more than my entire town though.
[00:56:42] <JT-Shop> I dang sure don't want to write the g code for that
[00:56:51] <andypugh> FinboySlick: I am wondering if that is a real component.
[00:57:10] <JT-Shop> trade show show off I'd bet
[00:57:29] <FinboySlick> andypugh: It's done at a booth so I doubt it.
[00:57:40] <FinboySlick> It's a machine show-off kind of deal.
[00:57:41] <Tom_itx> "Try ubuntu without installing, install ubuntu, check disc for defects, test memory, boot from first hdd" are the only options i get when i press a key
[00:57:52] <Jymmm> Anyone yet notice there's no coolant being used =)
[00:58:19] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: It'd hinder the show.
[00:58:27] <JT-Shop> you peel off the chips fast enough you don't need any stinking coolant
[00:58:34] <andypugh> I _think_ LinuxCNC could control it. I am only seeing 3 rotary and 3 linear axes?
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[00:58:57] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop which option will install linuxcnc then?
[00:59:03] <JT-Shop> only if you can get LinuxCNC to install!
[00:59:11] <Jymmm> andypugh: I count 9 axis so far
[00:59:11] <JT-Shop> install
[00:59:12] <FinboySlick> andypugh: There's at least one other linear axe for the second chuck.
[00:59:13] <Tom_itx> the 'install ubuntu' one?
[00:59:24] <JT-Shop> yea, that is what I'm trying now
[00:59:30] <Tom_itx> i see nothing about linuxcnc on the menu
[00:59:30] <andypugh> Sorry, yes. 4 linears
[01:00:03] <FinboySlick> Would chuck actuation count as an axis?
[01:00:12] <Jymmm> no
[01:00:19] <JT-Shop> linuxcnc is just another program so I don't expect to see in on the install menu
[01:00:31] <andypugh> it does make me reprise a question I have had for a whiile. Why do lathes have tool changers rather than one insert that can be presented at a variable angle?
[01:00:56] <JT-Shop> how can you cut gears with just one tool?
[01:01:06] <FinboySlick> andypugh: This machine at uses at least some of that concept.
[01:01:34] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I don't understand the question?
[01:01:37] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: if it's durable enough: very slowly.
[01:01:42] <JT-Shop> the install is stuck at the maroon screen of death now
[01:02:07] <JT-Shop> dinner time
[01:02:21] <Tom_itx> i'll try mine
[01:02:29] <Tom_itx> i gotta erase the ssd first
[01:02:36] <FinboySlick> Let's look on ebay for a CTX Gamma 2000 TC.
[01:03:22] <FinboySlick> Ah darn... None that has no reserve, free delivery and 0 bid.
[01:03:38] <Valen> JT-Shop: probably need some vesa options is my guess
[01:04:38] <Jymmm> Da Da Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MFRPGf4JDk&feature=related
[01:04:53] <Jymmm> andypugh: Count the axis on that bad boy!
[01:04:57] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Bigger model?
[01:05:04] <FinboySlick> Holy crap...
[01:07:05] <Jymmm> even has skunkwork's tool changer =)
[01:08:29] <Jymmm> 0:07 Small, Medium, and OH MY GAWD! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeTUuFnFmVw&NR=1&feature=fvwp
[01:08:37] <Valen> think that part they are making in the first video is actually something?
[01:08:43] <FinboySlick> DMG has 8 customers in 4 countries ;)
[01:09:08] <FinboySlick> Valen: Nah.
[01:09:59] <Valen> kinda a shame
[01:10:11] <Valen> it'd be cool to see id do something lol
[01:10:15] <Valen> see it
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[01:13:39] <FinboySlick> My birthday is coming up, but I'd settle for for the 2000 model if any of you are feeling generous.
[01:13:53] <andypugh> DMG seems to be Gildermeister
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[01:14:22] <Jymmm> Could we put our collective minds together and make one?
[01:14:54] <andypugh> Yes.
[01:15:01] <Tom_itx> did we decide how many axis it has?
[01:15:14] <Jymmm> 9?
[01:15:17] <andypugh> But without a lot of money, it would be rubbish :-)
[01:16:05] <andypugh> It is three rotary and 4 linear, as far as I can see,
[01:16:52] <Tom_itx> wonder how many hours it took to program that part
[01:17:05] <FinboySlick> We ought to start with one of those (hit mute before you have a nervous breakdown). They use EMC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1DCXe9t3UE
[01:17:06] <Jymmm> s/hours/months/
[01:18:34] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Already done by JMK (I think) http://youtu.be/1EYaM4FkASA
[01:19:15] <FinboySlick> andypugh: That one is pretty awesome too.
[01:19:21] <Jymmm> what is that 3D part ???
[01:19:25] <Jymmm> on the screen
[01:19:37] <andypugh> Or on a bigger scale by Stuart Stevenson: http://youtu.be/mxxdq6y8z8M
[01:19:54] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: 9 axis
[01:20:24] <Jymmm> xyzabcuvw
[01:20:32] <FinboySlick> Yeah, the one by Stuart is pretty incredible.
[01:20:45] <Tom_itx> yup
[01:20:59] <Tom_itx> his shop is only a couple miles from me
[01:21:05] <Tom_itx> never been there
[01:21:50] <Jymmm> If YOU were to make and sell a CNC, what would it be?
[01:22:23] <Jymmm> like the PMC? a cnc center? cnc mill? cnc lathe? cnc router? something else?
[01:23:17] <FinboySlick> I honestly don't know. They all have their advantages that I'd miss in one if I just made one.
[01:23:52] <andypugh> Would I have to make a profit?
[01:24:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: some
[01:24:14] <andypugh> A super-tiny 5-axis with piezo motors would be fun
[01:24:24] <FinboySlick> Piezo motors?
[01:24:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'm not really talking experimental, but actual production
[01:24:45] <FinboySlick> As in what drives high-end injector valves?
[01:25:06] <Jymmm> NEMA sized motors
[01:25:42] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Sort of.
[01:25:45] <andypugh> http://www.physikinstrumente.com/en/products/micropositioning/multiaxis_stage_selection.php
[01:25:59] <andypugh> 25mm travel, 0.1um precision
[01:26:40] <andypugh> some are friction-drive with two walking fingers plus a measurement system.
[01:26:57] <Jymmm> wth?! I jbwelded two bolts thread to thread together and I was just able to pull them apart after 10 days !!!
[01:29:09] <andypugh> Ooh! This looks expensive. A 40nm hexapod: http://www.physikinstrumente.com/en/products/prdetail.php?sortnr=700881
[01:29:11] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Hmmm, if one could make the teeth small enough, that wobble-gear stepper idea could probably be piezo driven.
[01:31:07] <andypugh> OK, should be asleep. Night all
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[01:35:57] <r00t4rd3d> my new "large" camera bag is too small :(
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[01:39:10] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: Here, watch some CNC pr0n http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_qHR_H_2cg
[01:40:29] <Tom_itx> Ok JT-Shop, after installing from the ubuntu install menu i get no linuxcnc on the menu
[01:40:39] <Tom_itx> just as before
[01:42:24] <r00t4rd3d> but is it there?
[01:42:55] <r00t4rd3d> right click applications, then properties or settings something i forget
[01:43:03] <r00t4rd3d> add program maybe
[01:43:22] <r00t4rd3d> a list should pop up
[01:43:27] <r00t4rd3d> check marks and what not
[01:43:52] <r00t4rd3d> do you see a CNC folder?
[01:46:51] <Tom_itx> usr/bin has no linuxcnc at all
[01:47:58] <Tom_itx> hm2 is in lib/firmware though
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[01:49:01] <r00t4rd3d> tom do this from a term , sudo updatedb
[01:49:10] <r00t4rd3d> then locate linuxcnc
[01:51:00] <Tom_itx> /var/lib/apt/lists/ has a few things
[01:51:19] <r00t4rd3d> thats nothing
[01:51:27] <r00t4rd3d> sudo apt-get clean
[01:51:32] <Tom_itx> /usr/shar/doc does as well
[01:51:36] <r00t4rd3d> sudo apt-get update
[01:51:53] <r00t4rd3d> sudo apt-get install linuxcbc
[01:51:56] <r00t4rd3d> sudo apt-get install linuxcnc*
[01:52:02] <Tom_itx> i know how to install it, that's not the issue here
[01:52:11] <Tom_itx> the issue is the live cd not installing it
[01:52:39] <Jymmm> lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1piuJzS7H-4&NR=1&feature=endscreen
[01:52:40] <Tom_itx> this was a test to verify it didn't
[01:52:47] <r00t4rd3d> do you have the cd selected as a source?
[01:52:58] <Tom_itx> :/
[01:53:03] <Tom_itx> it booted from the cd
[01:53:14] <r00t4rd3d> that doesnt mean its selected as a source
[01:53:20] <r00t4rd3d> by default it is not
[01:53:34] <Tom_itx> the issue is the live cd should install linuxcnc
[01:53:47] <r00t4rd3d> or boot with it ready
[01:54:20] <r00t4rd3d> does /var/log/dmesg list any errors?
[01:54:33] <Tom_itx> i shut it down
[01:54:43] <Tom_itx> done testing. i'm convinced it didn't install it
[01:55:01] <r00t4rd3d> ubuntu sucks ass
[01:55:34] <r00t4rd3d> built by a pile of inbred retards
[01:56:47] <Tom_itx> not here to judge that, just testing the cd.
[01:56:54] <r00t4rd3d> what version
[01:57:11] <r00t4rd3d> are you sure you got a good burn?
[01:57:20] <Tom_itx> yes
[01:57:22] <Tom_itx> 2.5
[01:57:34] <Tom_itx> verified the checksum
[01:57:34] <r00t4rd3d> no meant of ubuntu
[01:58:01] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop is having the same issue is what prompted me to test this
[01:58:22] <r00t4rd3d> was there an update or something?
[01:58:47] <Tom_itx> ?
[01:58:55] <Tom_itx> there's a new live cd for 2.5 out yes
[01:58:59] * FinboySlick thinks Tom_itx keeps having install problems just because that gets him attention.
[01:59:08] <Tom_itx> :)
[01:59:31] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick, my install works fine
[02:00:14] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.linuxcnc.org/images/stories/screen_thumb.png
[02:00:22] <r00t4rd3d> whats that blue screen in that image?
[02:00:48] <Tom_itx> not axis
[02:00:51] <Tom_itx> touchy maybe?
[02:01:27] <Tom_itx> one of the alternate interfaces but not sure which one
[02:01:41] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: I ought to pay attention when I'm trying to be obnoxious :)
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[03:26:27] <r00t4rd3d> ping
[03:26:54] <Valen> <random noisy bodily function>
[03:27:15] <Connor> okay, so, what's your option on using SHCS counter bores vs endmill of the correct size?
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[07:05:00] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:15:08] <_abc_> I have the problem that the 10.04 lts does not see its usb keyboard after installation during the grub boot menu stage. This thread is relevant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub/+bug/60177
[07:15:12] <_abc_> Is there a fix?
[07:17:12] <_abc_> Also on an old board I tried to install just for show (has no cnc hardware), the rtai system refused to install claiming no APIC was found (configured but not found). Is an APIC essential for RTAI oprtation? Is it safe to add noapic on the kernel command line for RTAI use? (assuming I will read up on the correct syntax first)
[07:21:51] <psha[work]> apic/lapic and friends are documented in the wiki
[07:25:32] <_abc_> Search for noapic in wiki.linuxcnc.org::Search : 0 pages found
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[07:25:59] <_abc_> but apic is found
[07:29:09] <Valen> _abc_: its usually an issue with bios and keyboard settings
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[07:58:34] <_abc_> I fixed the apci problem, imho lapci should be the default in the cli, it seems to work best like that on most machines
[07:59:08] <_abc_> The USB has legacy bios support enabled, and the keyboard (USB) works great in BIOS setup, stops working in the grub menu, and works again in the booted system
[07:59:13] <_abc_> So it is a grub problem
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[07:59:39] <_abc_> Also when in this grub menu, pressing any key on the keyboard blinks a single led in the keyboard, which signifies the keyboard is in some invalid mode
[07:59:54] <_abc_> (also the keypress has no effect on the computer)
[08:00:12] <_abc_> A more interesting question is, how does one tell axis to ignore homing?
[08:00:34] <_abc_> I tried setting HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 0 acc. wiki article, does not work, and causes more errors
[08:00:51] <_abc_> Specifically this wiki page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Homing_And_Limit_Switch#No_Switches
[08:01:02] <_abc_> which is plain wrong (the HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 0 part)
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[09:14:57] <_abc_> Okay I fixed it. I will put up a mini howto and a test ini file which allows the test program LinuxCNC in 10.04 lts to be run "dry" (without hardware). It was tedious. I do not yet have a wiki account, I might get one to put the updated information there. This concerns first runs, and pc tests, no actual hardware use. It is also needed to test whether a specific pc is okay for use with emc2/linuxcnc/axis.
[09:15:50] <_abc_> One more thing: using the keyboard in grub while in the boot menu requires BIOS legacy USB support enabled, but this causes timing errors in linuxcnc. So the legacy support should be disabled and only enabled when needed. A grub patch to use USB would be MOST welcome.
[09:15:58] <_abc_> I am done for now, will be back later/tomorrow
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[09:19:03] <_abc_> Just as a quick info, all of the following must be set to allow home switch less test operation: in each axis section, in the .ini file: HOME_SEARCH_VEL=0 HOME_LATCH_VEL=0 USE_INDEX=NO ; also set HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS=YES and set MAX_LIMIT and MIN_LIMIT large and small, to allow the test code to run. Setting IGNORE_LIMITS=YES has no effect and running the test code with this still causes program stop and error flagging (limit exceeded on joint 2). ...
[09:19:09] <_abc_> ... Setting MAX_LIMIT and MIN_LIMIT permits the test code to run 'dry' (and any timing errors which might appear to be seen - that is the purpose of this test!).
[09:19:17] <_abc_> Now I am really done here
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[09:39:08] <sendoushi> hi. forgot who was helping me yesterday
[09:39:16] <sendoushi> :(
[09:42:09] <awallin> archivist may have an irc-log..
[09:42:24] <micges> logger[psha]_: hi
[09:42:32] <micges> sendoushi: ^^
[09:43:15] <sendoushi> doesnt have yesterday stuff but thanks
[09:43:27] <sendoushi> when he gets online i guess i'll know
[09:43:27] <sendoushi> ehehe
[09:43:36] <micges> change date in address
[09:43:54] <Loetmichel> sed: time?
[09:43:59] <Loetmichel> sendoushi
[09:44:12] * Loetmichel has about 4gb logs on the disk here ,-)
[09:44:15] <sendoushi> ham around 6h20
[09:44:22] <sendoushi> greenwhich
[09:44:35] <Loetmichel> ehrm... and what time is it now where you live?
[09:44:44] <Loetmichel> ah
[09:44:51] <sendoushi> 10h46
[09:45:36] <Loetmichel> i see
[09:45:43] <Loetmichel> 6:20 pm or am?
[09:45:46] <sendoushi> pm
[09:46:16] <sendoushi> 6h30 around that
[09:47:27] <Loetmichel> grrr, cant see the logs over the VNC
[09:47:38] <sendoushi> eheh thanks anyway
[09:47:46] <Loetmichel> can it wait some hrs?'til i am at home?
[09:47:49] <sendoushi> still deciding which design i want for the cnc
[09:47:56] <sendoushi> yep :)
[09:48:21] <Loetmichel> i would suggest : a sturdy one ;-)
[09:48:30] <sendoushi> good suggestion eheh
[09:51:39] <Loetmichel> were you the cheapskate from yesterday?
[09:51:55] <sendoushi> cheapskate?
[09:52:04] <sendoushi> second time i heard that term in my life. both here
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[10:10:31] <archivist> bookmark
[10:11:56] <archivist> my logs are broken at his moment
[10:18:15] <sendoushi> still dunno what cheapskate is
[10:18:40] <Valen> tightarse?
[10:19:11] <Valen> somebody who will go to great effort not to spend money, despite generally having a poorer product in the end
[10:19:22] <sendoushi> oh
[10:19:39] <sendoushi> naaa i'm no cheapskate
[10:20:37] <sendoushi> but still... i'm making a cnc when i never seen one and don't know if i like or if i have a real use for it so... i won't spend 1000$ when i can just spend 400$ Loetmichel
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[10:36:46] <sendoushi> what's happenning with cnc zone?
[10:44:19] <jthornton> commercial overload
[10:44:51] <jdhNC> I turned off skimlinks
[10:47:55] <sendoushi> so... what kind of cnc mills exist in terms of mechanics plans?
[10:48:11] <sendoushi> i've been seeing quite a lot the same design
[10:48:21] <sendoushi> but i'm still wondering whats the best one for me
[10:50:21] <jthornton> vismach or http://axis.unpy.net/etchcnc
[10:50:49] <sendoushi> etchcnc has nothing to do with what i want to do :P
[10:51:15] <jthornton> I thought you said you didn't know what you wanted to do
[10:51:34] <sendoushi> i do i just don't know what to design
[10:51:51] <sendoushi> main objective: guitars
[10:52:32] <awallin> if youre not cutting metal and are on a tight budget then maybe an MDF-framed router style machine would do?
[10:52:46] <awallin> if you could get the MDF parts cnc or laser cut somewhere
[10:52:54] <sendoushi> i could
[10:53:02] <sendoushi> mdf-framed hm
[10:53:32] <sendoushi> and the design?
[10:53:39] <sendoushi> or is that a kind of design?
[10:53:49] <jthornton> you could cobble up one and use it to cut your mdf parts with
[10:54:07] <sendoushi> if i ever cut metal is like ... faceplate for an amp or pedal or something
[10:54:30] <awallin> moving gantry is the common router design I guess. coolant fluid would be a no-no with an mdf frame
[10:55:17] <sendoushi> what about floating / moving table?
[10:55:41] <awallin> moving table requires more space, but is probably stiffer
[10:56:05] <sendoushi> moving gantry ok (dont have much space)
[10:56:08] <awallin> something like this would be minimum budget and OKish for guitarr wood-parts http://www.flickr.com/photos/doublellama/1071494849/
[10:56:10] <sendoushi> now i just need plans :D
[10:57:06] <sendoushi> hm
[10:57:10] <awallin> then you need to decide on slides vs. linear-rails, normal thread-screws vs ballscrews, and steppers vs. servos
[10:57:17] <awallin> performance allways costs more :)
[10:57:27] <jthornton> the wood frame routers are all similar... you just have to decide on how you want to make the rollers and what kind of drive you want
[10:57:48] <sendoushi> already decided that for now tb6560 and nema 23 will be the way
[10:57:59] <sendoushi> later i may or may not upgrade tb6560
[10:58:14] <sendoushi> now... slides vs linear-rails?
[10:58:50] <sendoushi> (still wondering moving table vs moving gantry)
[10:59:25] <jthornton> http://www.sonsivri.to/forum/index.php?topic=33768.0
[11:00:22] <jthornton> have you established the working envelope you require to make a guitar?
[11:00:30] <sendoushi> working envelope?
[11:00:51] <awallin> linear rails look like this. it's what most mid-sized good machines use http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-pair-of-used-THK-SR15-LM-Guide-Linear-Bearing-Slide-Rail-for-CNC-Milling-Axis-/330748277974?#ht_2228wt_1135
[11:00:53] <jthornton> how big is the biggest part you want to cut
[11:01:00] <sendoushi> i think i'll go with linear-rails since are really more cheaper
[11:01:19] <sendoushi> jthornton: 45 * 34
[11:01:27] <sendoushi> (is the size of the body of my guitar)
[11:02:01] <jthornton> linear rails will make a nice stiff machine even in wood
[11:02:07] <jthornton> mm or inch?
[11:02:17] <sendoushi> awallin: http://buildyourcnc.com/step1.aspx isn't this linear-rail?
[11:02:19] <awallin> cheaper slides look like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/linear-bearing-slide-unit-2-SBR12-200mm-4-SBR12UU-linear-guide-linear-rail-/251079736513?#ht_513wt_1190
[11:02:19] <sendoushi> jthornton: cm
[11:03:00] <awallin> sendoushi: your link shows some home-made rails. THK are HiWin commercial ones would almost certainly be better.
[11:03:05] <jthornton> no that is just some bearings and junk
[11:03:07] <awallin> THK or HiWin
[11:03:24] <jthornton> might as well use drawer slides
[11:03:38] <sendoushi> awallin: still those home-made are easy to me to find. the ones you showed me are US so... really hard and expensive
[11:04:43] <awallin> sendoushi: sure, if your hand-sanding the 3D shapes of your guitarr then 0.2mm or so accuracy is all you need anyway.. but serious hobby cnc-builders aim for 0.05mm or less in alu or steel so that is another world
[11:05:01] <jthornton> that is a good style too but a bit short
[11:05:22] <sendoushi> awallin: for now... 0.2mm is wonderful for me ehe
[11:05:39] <sendoushi> i can hand-sand of course
[11:06:00] <jthornton> if your just wanting to rough out the parts the home made rails are ok but don't expect much and you won't be disappointed much
[11:06:14] <sendoushi> jthornton: i can always upgrade it later
[11:06:21] <sendoushi> since home made rails are cheap
[11:06:27] <sendoushi> i won't be crying my money
[11:07:49] <sendoushi> so getting somewhere... moving gantry is the best for me. home-made rails
[11:08:52] <jthornton> how much Z do you need?
[11:09:11] <sendoushi> what you consider Z?
[11:09:40] <jthornton> Z is the spindle axis
[11:10:01] <sendoushi> spindle?
[11:10:20] <sendoushi> so we have 3 motors
[11:10:24] <sendoushi> one for the gantry
[11:10:31] <sendoushi> other to move inside the gantry
[11:10:35] <sendoushi> and other to move the router
[11:10:38] <sendoushi> which is Z?
[11:10:38] <jthornton> spindle is what you put the cutting bit in
[11:10:52] <jthornton> spindle = router
[11:10:57] <sendoushi> so you want to know the "height"
[11:11:10] <sendoushi> well i dunno... is there much price difference or something?
[11:11:12] <jthornton> no, you want to know the height
[11:11:23] <sendoushi> i would say less than 10 cm
[11:12:39] <jthornton> so 45 x 35 x 10 is the working envelope or largest part you want to mill
[11:12:51] <sendoushi> i guess
[11:13:02] <sendoushi> maybe would be better to say 50 * 40 * 10
[11:13:07] <sendoushi> just in case...
[11:13:23] <sendoushi> well... i still don't know the size of the biggest guitar body which is ES / 335
[11:13:48] <sendoushi> http://uncrate.com/p/2010/02/gibson-1960-es-335td-guitar-xl.jpg this one
[11:14:41] <sendoushi> would i better be using http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-a-drawer-slide-CNC-machine-for-under-200/ or those home-made rails i showed?
[11:14:52] <jthornton> the logical starting point is to define the machine requirements
[11:15:10] <jthornton> only you can answer that question really
[11:15:24] <sendoushi> "The widest part of the body is 16 1/4 inches; the body height from bottom to top of either horn is a hair over 19 inches."
[11:15:41] <sendoushi> searching for the size of that 335
[11:16:44] <jthornton> if you notice the drawer slide machine is cutting foam
[11:17:44] <sendoushi> still searching for measures of the max guitar
[11:17:55] <sendoushi> http://www.guitar.com.au/guitars/electric/gibson/ES-335.html
[11:18:10] <sendoushi> 16.5" wide x 20" long x 1.75" thick
[11:18:33] <sendoushi> i don't know if the neck is bigger
[11:18:59] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: the drawer slides are terrible
[11:19:20] <sendoushi> Loetmichel: i'll use home made rails. easier to find, cheaper and enough
[11:19:25] <Loetmichel> thats not even a CNC DEMONSTRATION not to mentoin something of a "production" machine
[11:19:51] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: if you are fit with wood: try the rails i use:
[11:20:01] <Loetmichel> (searching for the photo)
[11:20:32] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8875
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[11:20:39] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8881
[11:20:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[11:21:05] <sendoushi> i see
[11:21:13] <jthornton> Loetmichel, nice design
[11:22:26] <sendoushi> Loetmichel: hmmm harder to find that hardware
[11:22:32] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: its about the eigth iteration, it better be Cheap AND good ;-)
[11:22:50] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: every hardware sore has ground round stock
[11:22:54] <Loetmichel> and ball bearings
[11:22:56] <sendoushi> what?
[11:23:09] <Loetmichel> the rest is just some Drilling/sawing/filing
[11:23:14] <Loetmichel> store
[11:23:38] <sendoushi> do you have any plans or something?
[11:23:41] <jthornton> I like the way you support the rod with the wood backing
[11:23:44] <Loetmichel> the rails are 16mm round bar, precision ground
[11:23:56] <jthornton> sendoushi, you have the photos now
[11:24:03] <Loetmichel> and 4mm ball bearings can be bought for less than a dollar a pice
[11:24:15] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: just between my ears
[11:24:24] <sendoushi> Loetmichel: i dont have the kind of hardware stores you have
[11:24:30] <Loetmichel> never bothered to draw a plan ;-)
[11:24:39] <sendoushi> so sometimes a 4mm ball bearing is hard to find ehehe
[11:25:16] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: so go to the next sports shop and buy 6mm ball bearings fir inliners...
[11:25:25] <Loetmichel> cheap chinese ones are sufficient
[11:25:38] <sendoushi> are those from skates?
[11:25:43] <Loetmichel> yes
[11:25:52] <Loetmichel> skates have 6mm and 8mm types
[11:26:17] <Loetmichel> and the 6mm are also fitting , you just have to redesing the mount.
[11:26:30] <Loetmichel> BTW: that slide is play-free.
[11:27:17] <Loetmichel> its slightly larger than would fit normally inside the rails, so the bolts which hold the bearings ar slightly bet and act as springs
[11:27:24] <Loetmichel> bent
[11:27:25] <archivist> I wonder how long an inverter will last when it is a 1 horse inverter with a 2 horse motor on it :) but at least the mill is running again
[11:28:09] <Loetmichel> archivist: as long as the overcurrent protect is working: forever or 'til warranty ends, whatever comes first ;-)
[11:28:14] <jthornton> I'm guessing if you keep the amp draw down it might run for a while
[11:30:01] <archivist> yes no chip throwing till I get a better inverter
[11:32:01] <sendoushi> ok... now i know the rails, i know the material, the type of router and design... electronics... next step?
[11:32:17] <archivist> start making something
[11:32:30] <sendoushi> archivist: i prefer to make all the list and plans first
[11:32:38] <sendoushi> because most are going to be ordered online
[11:32:45] <sendoushi> and this way i'm cost-wise
[11:33:14] <archivist> try your local scrap yard for bits too
[11:33:14] <jthornton> you just defined the next step
[11:33:59] <sendoushi> there's no local scrap yard that's the thing
[11:34:12] <sendoushi> :s
[11:34:29] <sendoushi> i never knew why but there are not those things in portugal
[11:34:37] <sendoushi> or at least of my knowledge
[11:35:12] <sendoushi> jthornton: what about these "normal thread-screws vs ballscrews, and steppers vs. servos" ?
[11:35:26] <sendoushi> mainly the thread-screws issue
[11:35:40] <sendoushi> the other i guess it's steppers (nema 23)
[11:35:43] <jthornton> Loetmichel, have you considered slotting the top of the bearing mount so you can squeeze a bit on the rail for fine adjustment?
[11:36:17] <jthornton> ballscrews and servos are a bit out of character with a wood framed router
[11:36:33] <sendoushi> thread-scews it is
[11:36:39] <jthornton> I would not use normal "all thread" rod either
[11:36:50] <jthornton> use acme threaded rod
[11:37:45] <sendoushi> jthornton: no ebay :s
[11:38:40] <sendoushi> what about these http://www.ebay.es/sch/i.html?rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=3&_nkw=threaded%20rod&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m283 ?
[11:39:35] <archivist> not good for accuracy or wear
[11:40:00] <sendoushi> is there other brand i should look?
[11:40:33] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: not necessary
[11:40:36] <jthornton> if you have to use all thread rod, what you linked use coupling nuts
[11:40:44] <Loetmichel> at least not with 4mm BB
[11:40:52] <jthornton> ok, just wondering
[11:40:58] <Loetmichel> the bolt which olds the bb will act like a spring
[11:41:13] <Loetmichel> oh, sorry, jthornton was meant
[11:41:18] <jthornton> ah ok
[11:41:20] <sendoushi> ...
[11:41:31] <jthornton> Loetmichel, same fellow actually
[11:41:38] <Loetmichel> ah i see ;-)
[11:41:50] <Loetmichel> one office one workshop i presume?
[11:42:22] <Loetmichel> [13:36] <jthornton> ballscrews and servos are a bit out of character with a wood framed router <- not necessarily
[11:42:39] <sendoushi> so... about the rods...
[11:42:48] <sendoushi> what should i use?
[11:43:00] <sendoushi> i guess that is what i need to decide now
[11:43:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935 <- thk 20mm ails and 16,mm*4mm ballscrews ;-)
[11:43:42] <Loetmichel> +r
[11:43:44] <sendoushi> what about belt?
[11:44:20] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: belt will lenghten itself and be difficult to gear down the steppers without play
[11:44:27] <sendoushi> ok
[11:44:40] <sendoushi> so... threaded rod
[11:44:49] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: use acme rod!
[11:44:57] <sendoushi> as i said... can't get it :s
[11:45:09] <sendoushi> for that i need an european store
[11:45:45] <Loetmichel> the "normal" threaded rod is 1) to sharp and will eat the nuts in no time and 2) too much TPI so the maschine will be slow
[11:46:07] <sendoushi> it has really to be acme
[11:46:12] <sendoushi> how will i get that... :s
[11:47:13] <jthornton> acme is everywhere
[11:47:19] <Loetmichel> even the 16mm*4mm Ballscrews i had on the big machine were to fine-pitched... at about 4200mm/min was end of G0, because the ballscrews had reached critical RPM and were damn near wwiggeling themself apart
[11:47:23] <sendoushi> is it much expensive?
[11:47:53] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: in germany its called "trapezgewinde"
[11:48:07] <Loetmichel> something like "trapezoidal trhead"
[11:48:08] <sendoushi> are you from germany Loetmichel ?
[11:48:24] <Loetmichel> maybe thats more like the name you will find it in germany
[11:48:24] <sendoushi> acme thread = trapezoidal thread??
[11:48:26] <Loetmichel> yes
[11:48:34] <Loetmichel> s/germany Europe
[11:48:47] <Loetmichel> yes
[11:49:11] <sendoushi> nothing on ebay
[11:49:19] <sendoushi> http://www.ebay.es/sch/i.html?_nkw=trapezgewinde&_sacat=0&LH_PrefLoc=3&_odkw=%22acme%22+rod&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 just this
[11:50:11] <Loetmichel> hmm, strange
[11:50:33] <Loetmichel> i never bothered to look for it on ebay
[11:50:43] <sendoushi> do you find it in stores?
[11:51:33] <Loetmichel> because i have a shop for tools and screws and so on in my "backyard" which has round ground stock and acme thread in all (metric) variations
[11:51:58] <sendoushi> Loetmichel: this is strange but... would you be kind enough to send me? i pay of course
[11:52:02] <Loetmichel> ... and for budgtt prices: a 2m 10mm*3mm acme bar will cost me less than 10 eur
[11:52:15] <Loetmichel> IIRC
[11:52:20] <sendoushi> hm?
[11:52:24] <Loetmichel> but the nuts are steel and not really cheap
[11:52:54] <sendoushi> i have to find an european store with all
[11:53:03] <sendoushi> and then i can cross-reference with my brother's contacts
[11:53:07] <sendoushi> since he has a metal factory
[11:53:48] <sendoushi> once again i have to have a list of everything of this kind of hardware i need
[11:54:05] <sendoushi> there is no problem with mdf and stuff but this "special" hardware
[11:54:12] <sendoushi> metal hardware eheh
[11:54:12] <Loetmichel> so i made them myself, just made a mould with a short trapezodial core, mixed some PU resin with 20% Talc and done for...
[11:54:31] <sendoushi> eheh
[11:54:53] <Loetmichel> makes GREAT nuts that need no grease (self lubricatong) and are running smooth and nearly wearless ;-)
[11:55:28] <sendoushi> what would you charge me to make a "kit" for me with those things?
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[11:55:40] <sendoushi> those special things that are hard to find and know about for me
[11:56:00] <Loetmichel> nothing at the moment... i am full with work until judgement day
[11:56:16] <sendoushi> judgement day is when?
[11:56:34] <Loetmichel> look in the bible ;-)
[11:56:37] <sendoushi> lol
[11:57:01] <Loetmichel> amageddon rings a bell?
[11:57:04] <Loetmichel> +r
[11:57:09] <sendoushi> not really
[11:57:13] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[11:57:14] <sendoushi> since i never cared about religion
[11:57:34] <jthornton> Loetmichel, did you mold the "nuts" around some of the acme rod?
[11:57:42] <Loetmichel> me neither, but as being an european i have had SOME religous education
[11:58:05] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: no, i made myself a short acme rod on the lathe
[11:58:07] <sendoushi> i also have but not the memory to know about it
[11:58:24] <Loetmichel> because the acme rod i am getting is rolled and has a jagged outer corner
[11:58:38] <jthornton> ah ok, what is PU?
[11:58:46] <sendoushi> i really have to get some plans to know better what i need and stuff...
[11:58:46] <Loetmichel> Poly urethane
[11:58:58] <jthornton> ok thanks
[11:59:06] <Loetmichel> google "sika G27"
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[11:59:40] <Loetmichel> its a fast settting urethane resin i use for everything i have to mold
[12:00:05] <Loetmichel> relatively cheap, can be milled as easyly as air buit is a LOT more sturdy ;-)
[12:00:14] <Loetmichel> and sets in 2-5 minutes...
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[12:02:48] <jthornton> I wonder if a similar product is available over on this side of the pond
[12:05:05] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: IIRC sika hase a US dependance
[12:05:09] <Loetmichel> has
[12:05:29] <jthornton> ok, thanks looking
[12:05:39] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, check tap plastics
[12:05:47] <Tom_itx> they sell small quantities of stuff
[12:05:54] <Tom_itx> i got some urethane from them once
[12:06:09] <Tom_itx> shore 30 iirc
[12:06:40] <Tom_itx> http://www.tapplastics.com/
[12:06:52] <awallin> I've only used PU-glue for gluing wood. that is nasty stuff...
[12:07:02] <Tom_itx> http://www.tapplastics.com/product/mold_making_materials/mold_making_supplies
[12:08:12] <Tom_itx> i used it for wheels but the idea is the same
[12:08:16] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/sumo_files/sumo_wheelmold_index.php
[12:08:29] <Loetmichel> btw: urethane resin has the tendenchy to adhere to skin even BETTER than CA!
[12:08:41] <Tom_itx> yes, use mold release
[12:08:57] <Loetmichel> i menat: HAND skin ;-)
[12:08:59] <Tom_itx> i actually had some mold release for fiberglass and it worked fine for this
[12:09:02] <Loetmichel> meant
[12:09:07] <Tom_itx> i know
[12:09:52] <Tom_itx> the only thing i should have done different but didn't have a chamber was to vacuum chamber it while it was curing
[12:10:17] <Tom_itx> they still turned out good
[12:16:24] <Tom_itx> http://www.tapplastics.com/product_applications/computer_mod_case
[12:16:27] <Tom_itx> :)
[12:17:15] <Loetmichel> *yaaaawn*
[12:17:34] * Loetmichel gets a triple espresso...
[12:18:35] <Loetmichel> i have pulled an all-nigghter yesterday. Worked 'til 0700 at home for a fried, thenn brushed my theeth, put some new clothes on and drove to the company...
[12:18:57] <Loetmichel> now ists 14:18 ofer here and the hole i am falling in gets bigger by the minute...
[12:19:03] <Loetmichel> over
[12:28:30] <alex_joni> http://youtu.be/B0JOlF1ADd8
[12:32:20] <mrsun> alex_joni, that sounds just like one of the songs blackmores night does
[12:32:23] <mrsun> in some parts
[12:32:27] <mrsun> but cant remember the name
[12:32:31] <mrsun> there it ... damn
[12:37:30] <mrsun> blackmores night fires at midnight maybe... :P
[12:37:58] <mrsun> maybe ... its something familiar with the song atleast =)
[12:38:03] <mrsun> who stole from who i dont know :P
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[12:38:57] <mrsun> no ... it doesnt match ... hmm wth =)
[12:39:05] <Thiel> hi all i need to run my big mashine with one axis of 'B' what do i need to do in hal to get the Axis not to Home and work for MDI
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[12:39:18] <rooi-oog> hi all
[12:39:22] <Thiel> better i think in INI
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[12:40:29] <alex_joni> mrsun: it's supposed to be some french medieval song
[12:41:01] <mrsun> alex_joni, im sure it can be, dont know where richie gets his material from ... i suppose its also from other songs etc =)
[12:41:10] <mrsun> so they can be very similiar =)
[12:41:35] <mrsun> the tune at 1:40 is what gets me realy going and i remember it STRONGLY from blackmores night but cant remember what song =)
[12:42:49] <Thiel> Thanks got it Vel to 0 and ofset home sequence -1
[12:47:27] <alex_joni> mrsun: http://youtu.be/5Np305zRGA4
[12:53:45] <sendoushi> back
[12:55:06] <Thiel> hi sendoushi how is the tb6560 developing
[12:55:20] <Thiel> did you manage to get it
[12:55:33] <sendoushi> Thiel: still making a list of what i need. now hardware-wise
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[12:56:02] <jdhNC> good luck with that!
[12:56:04] <Thiel> i told you to use the epson steppers for better performance
[12:56:30] <Thiel> the tb6560 works perfect with this lowcost high tourche ones
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[12:56:40] <Thiel> it gives you 120RPM
[12:57:00] <Thiel> at TR12x4 this is 500mm/min at no loss
[12:57:14] <Thiel> at 0.01
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[12:59:07] * Loetmichel is impersonating Robinson crusoe atm... waiting for friday ;9
[12:59:49] <sendoushi> Thiel: nema 23. its hard to find here scrapyards to check for epson printers and stuff. easier to buy the motors
[13:00:32] <Thiel> you said that you can get them on ebay i asked to check the ebay input
[13:00:40] <sendoushi> ebay input?
[13:01:22] <Thiel> 23LM-C355-44W
[13:01:32] <Thiel> for 14Eur eatch
[13:01:33] <chron0> I've been thinking in the same lines the last weeks, due to more environmental protection and recycling and laws there are almost no scrapyards in germany anymore, there used to be hundreds of them just a stonesthrow away and they really try to stop you when you try to remove old prnters from the trash collecting containers :(
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[13:04:35] <Thiel> sendoushi: with TR 12x4 spindel cheep and good you are done in legth from 50cm to 4m
[13:05:20] <sendoushi> the spindel i have to check later
[13:05:26] <sendoushi> making that decision the last step
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[13:11:17] <Thiel> spindel Tread for movement is the first
[13:11:48] <Thiel> Trapezional not standard or do you go with ballbearing
[13:13:29] <Loetmichel> chron0: how big a stepper do you need?
[13:13:40] <Loetmichel> i have some scrapped recently
[13:14:49] <chron0> Loetmichel: I'm currently planning with the nanotec ST6018M3008-B in dual config for the y-axis, x and z are not quite clear yet since I want the gantry set up first
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[13:16:20] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[13:16:36] <Loetmichel> tell me a torque and size
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[13:17:09] <chron0> but in general I hack a lot of projects and there often are projects where it's perfectly sane to use old/scrap material to get somewhere but it gets harder all the time :/
[13:17:22] <Loetmichel> i have a bunch oth these floating around: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13248
[13:17:47] <alex_joni> http://youtu.be/Z-N7Oq8_fOw
[13:17:59] <Loetmichel> they are 7,5° e.g.: 48 fullsteps/rev
[13:18:24] <chron0> for this setup i don't want to go the "cheapskate" approach, hence the nanotec steppers.... 1.5Nm/4.2A NEMA23 56mm Length Axis on both sides (for the synchro belt)
[13:18:26] <Loetmichel> and about 1 to 1.5A /phase
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[13:18:55] <Loetmichel> ok, i thougt because of "scrapjaard epson printer steppers"
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[13:20:11] <chron0> Loetmichel: cheers for thinking of that, but no, not in this case, my wishes are too specific to go with hack-a-tec :) But there are many more projects that could use scrap material but get hindered by an ever decreasing availability....
[13:21:00] <chron0> I needed some steel plate rests to make a flange for my little 25ccm 300W generator project...
[13:21:41] <chron0> it was just too noisy so I need to build my own muffler, old car parts would be a great source to get all material I need but I don't even find one scrapyard for cars in munich...
[13:31:14] <alex_joni> http://juve.ro/blog/photography/01339594016
[13:35:13] <jdhNC> that first pic is 6 axis?
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[13:52:35] <alex_joni> jdhNC: 5
[13:52:50] <alex_joni> jdhNC: it's without the skirt in the second picture
[13:54:21] <chron0> alex_joni: but isn't the table itself moveable (first picture) - so the arm has 5 axis + plus the table?
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[13:55:27] <alex_joni> chron0: yes, including table it's 6
[13:56:12] <sendoushi> i already asked before but... has anyone already read "build your own cnc machine" from 2009 ? i'm thinking on building the one they talk about.
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[14:05:50] <Jymmm> I need a clean, burr free 0.030" to 0.035" slot about 1" long in 0.125" thick aluminum and no mill available. Any suggestions?
[14:06:22] <Jymmm> slot can be longer if needed
[14:08:11] <JT-Shop> drill and file
[14:09:09] <Jymmm> 1) Do they have files that thin? 2) Wouldn't that leave rough edges/ serations?
[14:10:15] <cpresser> that could be a job for 'eroding'
[14:10:16] <JT-Shop> depends on your skill at filing
[14:10:43] <cpresser> or: dont create your slot by removing material; rather add two pieces so that they form a slot
[14:11:29] <Jymmm> cpresser: I was pondering that; just not sure how to "adjust" the slot.
[14:11:59] <Jymmm> the two pieces need to be parallel
[14:12:24] <cpresser> the german word for the thing you need is 'lehrenband'. let me search a translation for you...
[14:12:29] <JT-Shop> shim stock
[14:12:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, ty. I have some too
[14:12:57] <cpresser> http://fixx-werkzeug.de/bilder/produkte/gross/Lehrenband-C-Stahl-06mm-Breite-25mm.jpg
[14:13:16] <JT-Shop> shim stock
[14:13:17] <cpresser> yep, thats the word i was searching fort
[14:13:23] <cpresser> -t
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[14:15:52] <Jymmm> Dremel cut off wheels are 0.028" thick; And with the "accuracy" of a Dremel, that might come out to 0.030" or so.
[14:18:13] <Jymmm> Not sure how smooth/clean of an edge it'll leave in aluminum though.
[14:26:06] <jdhNC> There are several thicknesses of dremel cut-off wheels
[14:26:30] <Jymmm> jdhNC: I've only seen one - ever
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[14:27:26] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-409-Cut-off-Wheels-thick/dp/B00004UDGX
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[14:32:01] <Jymmm> I found 0.040" but that's a bit too wide http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-420-Heavy-Cut-Off-Wheels/dp/B00004UDH3/ref=sr_1_56?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1339597694&sr=1-56
[14:32:11] <Jymmm> jdhNC: thanks for the info =)
[14:34:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, *if* I were to use a file/cutoff wheel, I can smooth out the faces with emory cloth!
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[14:36:02] <Loetmichel> chron0: hrhr, a little genset project is duie here, too.... but MUCH smaller
[14:36:08] <Loetmichel> i need about 100W
[14:36:20] <Jymmm> I still need to find teflon/fiberglass hookup wire though, can't find it anywhere (locally)
[14:36:29] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: 100W generator?
[14:36:40] <Loetmichel> so i will use a Brushless motor and a 0,99ccm methanol motor... and the whole genset has to be lighter than 300 grams
[14:36:57] <Loetmichel> 'cause it has to fly on a quadrocopter
[14:37:15] <Loetmichel> Jymmm. correct
[14:37:34] <chron0> Loetmichel: ha, lol you want to have that on a quad, interessting approach, that might give great airtime, when you get it to hover :)
[14:37:41] <Jymmm> gas powered RC copter?
[14:38:07] <chron0> my setup goes at about 3kg, but with 4 stroke 25ccm
[14:38:14] <Loetmichel> IF the genset stay lighter than 300 grams it WILL hover with 100W ;-)
[14:38:32] <chron0> also on a torcmann brushless motor in a dynamic y/delta config depending on use case
[14:38:32] <Jymmm> and whats the electricity for?
[14:38:41] <chron0> for the motors of the quad of course
[14:38:52] <Jymmm> then whats the gas motor for?
[14:38:55] <chron0> to get the pid/kalman regulator fast enough to keep it flying :)
[14:39:01] <chron0> to make eletricity
[14:39:09] <Jymmm> no other purpose?
[14:39:34] <chron0> well, create annoying noise maybe, if you're looking for other purposes :)
[14:39:42] <Jymmm> k
[14:39:59] <chron0> thats why I need to build a new muffler... but loetmichel may have better answers, I'm just guessing here
[14:40:05] <Loetmichel> http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/224700/ASP-V-MOTOR-1CC/1210010&ref=list
[14:40:48] <chron0> well, that depends on how much meth its going to need and how much the tank + sprit will weigh
[14:40:56] <Loetmichel> i will use this motor, and a 250W brishless with a set of fast supressor diodes over the bodydiodes of the ESC mosfets
[14:41:10] <Loetmichel> which act then as a 3 phase rectifier
[14:41:25] <Loetmichel> and a small 3s900mAh lipo for buffering
[14:41:38] <chron0> hmmm, you will use the esc controller as a rectifier?
[14:41:46] <Loetmichel> more or less
[14:41:50] <chron0> afaik the only have two inputs
[14:41:55] <Loetmichel> the esc controller to start the engine
[14:42:09] <Loetmichel> and the "bodydiodes" act as a rectifier
[14:42:14] <Loetmichel> but are too slow
[14:42:18] <chron0> ah, you want to use the brusheless motor as a starter and a generator combined?
[14:42:20] <Loetmichel> BTDT
[14:42:37] <Loetmichel> it'll be a "startgenerator" in this config
[14:42:50] <chron0> yeah, go for good mosfets ones, otherwise you'll loose so much in the v drop
[14:43:13] <chron0> i'm currently simulating a 3-phase active synchro rectifier with mosfets to get better results with less los
[14:43:15] <Loetmichel> no, even the good escs have crappy body diodes
[14:43:31] <Loetmichel> tehy are a byproduct so no specs given
[14:44:27] <Loetmichel> but if you set fast recovery schottky diodes in parallel to every body diode you get a nice and nearly lossless rectifier
[14:44:30] <Loetmichel> three phase
[14:44:36] <chron0> there were some issues on the net regarding the dual use, and many people feared that a standard bl motor will not have enough torque/precision in the slow rpms needed to start the engine... I'm really looking forward to see your results
[14:44:49] <Loetmichel> done that already for a e-bike
[14:45:18] <Loetmichel> chron0: the engine has less than a ccm
[14:45:39] <Loetmichel> it will start HAPPILY witrh a 250W brisless with low rpm/V
[14:45:43] <Loetmichel> brushless
[14:46:38] <Loetmichel> but having some 1,6ccm engines here i know: they go throgh the expensive fuel like crazy
[14:46:42] <chron0> so I can basically take "any" ESC, add some fast schottkys to the body diodes and will have a start controller / more or less active rectivier in one piece?
[14:46:42] <chron0> is that the break energy conversion feature which makes that possible?
[14:46:42] <chron0> brake
[14:47:04] <Loetmichel> i've used it as such
[14:47:16] <Loetmichel> but with a modified firmware in the controllers Avr
[14:48:20] <Loetmichel> this particual project is a bet: to be able to create a gernator with enough watts to hover and not weighting more than a 5Ah 3S lipo ;)
[14:48:34] <Loetmichel> AND have mor power stored in the fuel than the lipo
[14:49:10] <Loetmichel> a friend say: impossibel, i say: "ill try!
[14:49:19] <Loetmichel> impossible
[14:54:11] <chron0> please, by all means, go bust that myth and if you do, please document it somewhere online, so that other can pick it up
[14:54:11] <chron0> than we might have our own army of flying drones, to be tasked with whatever purpose we deem worthy, muahahaha :)
[15:01:56] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: If you have a MUCH longer run time using fuel than a battery, I don't think weight is much of an issue
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[15:03:50] <Jymmm> Has anyone ever seen these used OTHER than for cigars? I'm looking for some of the cheap disposable kind and all I'm finding are the fancy ones domestically http://www.asia.ru/images/target/photo/51479980/Aluminum_Cigar_Tube.jpg
[15:04:46] <Jymmm> length can be 3-8", doens't have to be a screw cap
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[15:05:05] <Jymmm> I just can't thing of any other name they go by
[15:05:20] <Jymmm> test tubes bring up the plastic/glass ones
[15:07:48] <Loetmichel> i would try aluminium cigar tubes ;-)
[15:08:07] <Loetmichel> let me gues: you are buiilding a stirling?
[15:08:27] <Jymmm> no, just storage
[15:09:47] <Loetmichel> btw: if you happen to have a ductile 0,2mm aluminium sheet youcam do your own tubes out auf the sheet by metal spinning
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[15:39:47] <Gromits> I was trying to get a video camera working in a tab in Axis and can't get the DRO to come up in the camview window. The (oldish) instructions say to install camunits-plugins-emc but when I try to in Synaptic Package Manager it complains that it cant resolve a depenency.
[15:40:15] <Gromits> Any ides how to get the dro in there?
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[15:41:24] <jdhNC> fix the dependency?
[15:42:34] <jdhNC> and... if mittens wins, what will you say about his spending when he outspends everyone else?
[15:42:45] <jdhNC> <nevermind>
[15:42:51] <Gromits> how to fix dependency?
[15:43:02] <jdhNC> what does it say?
[15:43:56] <skunkworks> Gromits: I think psha[work] has some work in renaming to linuxcnc...
[15:45:29] <skunkworks> * or someone else ;)
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[15:56:48] <Connor> jdhNC: Question from last night: 2500 RPM, 40IPM
[15:59:11] <Gromits> Is psha still working on this stuff? I haven't heard from him in a long while...
[15:59:57] <Gromits> Heh, I see he left a few seconds after you said he has work to do :-)
[16:00:28] <skunkworks> :)
[16:03:38] <Jymmm> skunkworks: you see your tool changer?
[16:07:52] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[16:26:19] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc_formerly_emc2/156244-anyone_using_scottas_hy_vfd.html
[16:26:31] <skunkworks> Jymmm: ?
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[16:59:25] <Tom_itx> mmm. itty bitty slots and cigar cases. what's Jymmm up to now?
[16:59:41] <skunkworks> logger[psha]_:
[17:00:21] <Jymmm> skunkworks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_qHR_H_2cg
[17:01:03] <Jymmm> skunkworks: CNC Pr0n =)
[17:01:25] <Jymmm> skunkworks: And the Ron Jeremy of CNC Pr0n... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MFRPGf4JDk&feature=related
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[17:02:33] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: stirling maybe?
[17:03:18] <gene__> Hey Guys, that gcode.lang from Nick works great here!
[17:03:30] <_abc__> Hello. I installed lts 10.04 on 2 pcs today. Only difference I can see is, the one where I put it on a reiserfs partition installs fine but does not load / install rtai modules. Install was from the live cd. Is reiser not supported?
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[17:05:29] <_abc__> Errors are all related to rtai module and shm permissions.
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[17:06:39] <skunkworks> Jymmm: that is cool - the chain is impressive
[17:07:22] <syyl_> Jymmm
[17:07:29] <syyl_> that video is close to epic ;)
[17:08:02] <Jymmm> told ya it's pr0n =)
[17:08:12] <syyl_> i knew that video
[17:08:22] <syyl_> but its great to watch over and over ;)
[17:09:19] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Did you see Ron Jeremy too?
[17:09:44] <skunkworks> yes
[17:09:48] <Jymmm> k
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[17:18:48] <_abc__> Okay it was the lapic problem again. Wow the installation is smooth but hey there are always details to edit. Im okay with that.
[17:28:02] <psha> enother try
[17:28:04] <psha> another
[17:28:09] <psha> any camview-emc user around?
[17:29:00] <psha> logger[psha]_: .
[17:29:51] <IchGuckLive> psha: does this logging also store the devels channel
[17:30:27] <Tom_itx> IchGuckLive where is that?
[17:30:54] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: the internal development channel
[17:31:13] <Tom_itx> i know but what's the # address?
[17:31:25] <IchGuckLive> -devel
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[17:34:15] <Tom_itx> i could start
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[17:35:54] <skunkworks> andypugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkkuieFV7Vo
[17:36:27] <Tom_itx> IchGuckLive, just started
[17:36:36] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxDo1MZEnfM&feature=plcp
[17:37:02] <Tom_itx> won't do you much good right now though
[17:37:29] <_abc__> Okay when I run axis+emc2 i get the time overrun warning and see dmesg. There is indeed a small overrun, but smaller than my BASE_PERIOD. Running the latency test shows 0 overruns. Do I treat this as a warning? Is there a way to make it not come up?
[17:39:03] <_abc__> I could read up on this and likely will but a quick yes/no from the channel people would be nice.
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[17:39:38] <skunkworks> increase your base period?
[17:39:39] <andypugh> It would be nice to be able to keep the over-run notification on, but by default you only get one warning.
[17:40:10] <andypugh> So you don't know if it is perhaps an init-time one-off, or is actualy happening frequently.
[17:40:31] <andypugh> One option is just to ignore it and see if good parts come out the end..
[17:40:31] <Tom_itx> i presume it's ok to log the dev channel?
[17:40:46] <andypugh> psha and mah do
[17:40:55] <Tom_itx> i don't see their bots there
[17:41:03] <Tom_itx> oh maybe so
[17:41:04] <Tom_itx> :)
[17:41:30] <skunkworks> mah is missing at the moment
[17:41:49] <Tom_itx> well i added mine. it strips out all the join / parts
[17:42:42] <mhaberler> no he aint
[17:43:11] <psha> IchGuckLive: shure, just ask at -devel channel or go to http://psha.org.ru/irc/
[17:43:28] <_abc__> Hah i doubled the period and still got the warning.
[17:44:02] <_abc__> I have onboard graphics and selected vesa. Can that be it?
[17:46:15] <_abc__> Okay halving feeds made the warning not appear
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[17:47:09] <mhaberler> she's baack
[17:47:17] <psha> hey, he's he!
[17:49:35] <psha> Gromits: here?
[17:49:41] <psha> i've updated packages to new name
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[18:15:11] <jd896_laptop> hi all
[18:16:12] <andypugh> _abc__: Halving feeds making the problem go away makes no sense at all. Is is possible that your basae period change didn't stick the first time?
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[18:24:07] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5Tu_zoO828&feature=fvwrel <-- hmm that cant be very good for the teeth on the blade can it? :)
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[18:31:53] <archivist> it is running a bit fast for a little blade like that
[18:31:53] <andypugh> It's nicer to lift on the return, but with the crank arm in the right place you get that anyway.
[18:32:21] <archivist> and varaible stroke he claims
[18:32:38] <andypugh> His crank-arm is exactly coaxial to completly eliminate that helpful effect :-)
[18:32:40] <mrsun> andypugh, hmm how do you get that from the crank in the right place? :)
[18:32:51] <mrsun> oh better if its offset up or down ?
[18:33:22] <andypugh> mrsun: Yes. But which depends if you plan to cut on the pull or the push
[18:33:32] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B8vWu_8foaA#! omg look at that weld job :P
[18:34:23] <mrsun> was thinking of building one of those little hacksaws, do not have place for a big coldsaw .. tho the little bandsaws you can buy arent much bigger :P
[18:34:52] <andypugh> The first one is almost a direct copy of: http://www.lathes.co.uk/taylor/page11.html
[18:35:16] <mrsun> looks like it =)
[18:35:39] <archivist> please dress ones bird shit before putting it on youtube
[18:36:02] <mrsun> =)
[18:42:40] <archivist> mrsun, that reminded me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojFZ__4t7ck
[18:46:13] <jd896_laptop> lookin at those welds he should give up cause he isnt ever goint to lay a weld down with a stick set and have the slag curl off as proper welders do
[18:49:07] <archivist> the first day your slag curls is wonderful
[18:49:11] <mrsun> archivist, hehe likes how bubba did it =)
[18:49:20] <mrsun> thats how someone who knows what he does does it :P
[18:49:50] <archivist> very good video quality too, easy to see the weld
[18:52:26] <jd896_laptop> deffinatly is archivist
[18:53:21] <archivist> hmm 40 years since I learnt, the first day or three are demoralising when the trainers wells all curl up
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[18:59:27] <archivist> andypugh, btw managed to get the 2hp motor on the mill running off a 1hp vfd :)
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[19:08:35] <andypugh> It's probably all you need, really.
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[19:10:26] <Loetmichel> archivist: thats harmless
[19:10:50] <Loetmichel> i had a 11kw grinding wheel running with a 2,3kw VFD...
[19:11:07] <Loetmichel> had to set the rampup/rampdown to 2 minutes, though
[19:11:22] <Loetmichel> or it would go in overcurrent ;)
[19:12:43] <A1Sheds> anyone have an opinion on Dayton or Westward drill presses?
[19:14:00] <Connor> okay, so, options on using SHCS counter bores vs endmill of the correct size?
[19:16:09] jackc_ is now known as jackc
[19:17:22] <skunkworks> Connor: maybe for hand drilled projects.. But from my experience the clear hole for the conterbore needs to be so much larger than I like. (I use a mill)
[19:17:32] <skunkworks> circular interp the clearance.
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[19:20:06] <Connor> I would link to it. but, cdctools.com sucks.. you can't direct link to a product??
[19:20:12] <Connor> www.cdctools.com
[19:20:15] <Connor> search for counter bore.
[19:20:28] <Connor> those are the ones I'm talking about.
[19:20:47] * skunkworks hears Arnold saying 'sarah connor'
[19:21:08] <Connor> eh?
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[19:24:45] <skunkworks> sorry - for some reason when I see Connor - in my mind - Arnold from terminator is pronouncing it in my head.
[19:24:55] <Connor> Ah.
[19:25:01] <Connor> Come with me if you want to live!
[19:25:38] <DJ9DJ> lol
[19:29:27] <IchGuckLive> by B) O.o
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[19:50:09] <mrsun> hmm... shrinkfit tolerances for aluminium ...
[19:50:17] <mrsun> im thinking pulleys =)
[19:52:57] <archivist> press cold rather than shrink, I would think aluminium is a bit soft and plastic when warm
[19:53:46] <mrsun> archivist, but like 100 degrees C cant be that bad for the alu can it? :)
[19:54:24] <archivist> will it expand enough at 100
[19:54:41] <mrsun> do not know =)
[19:55:04] <mrsun> never shrinkfitted anything =)
[19:57:03] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQlHicPaKSg seems they can shrink fit impellers atleast
[19:57:06] <archivist> I have done press fits
[20:00:06] <Jymmm> has anyone done any rifling by chance?
[20:00:35] <skunkworks> like rifling through my desk?
[20:00:41] <Jymmm> barrel
[20:00:47] <skunkworks> ;)
[20:04:06] <mrsun> maybe locktite ...
[20:04:13] <mrsun> is that any good for locking pulleys to shafts? :)
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[20:06:15] <mrsun> i guess as it will be all "homemade" i could just drill a freakin hole throught the shaft and put in a pin :P
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[20:06:28] <archivist> make a taper lock bush then you can get it off easily later
[20:07:26] <mrsun> will be a huge taperlock .. its for a step pulley ... 4 steps
[20:08:13] <archivist> two smaller ones each end
[20:08:28] <mrsun> and feels like taperlocks has an inherant instability built in if not done perfectly ... like having a dividing head to space the bolts etc
[20:08:55] <mrsun> and ive got no four jaw chuck so hard to turn the pulley over to do the other side
[20:08:58] <archivist> make sure you make them self extract
[20:10:12] <anonimasu> tho, taperlocks are self centering..
[20:10:18] <anonimasu> if you do them right
[20:10:31] <mrsun> yes ... but when making them right i need the tools to make them right :P
[20:10:45] <mrsun> and i do not have that, so i want to make the pulley in one setup
[20:11:00] <anonimasu> we use a big one at work for holding a gear loaded with 3KNm of torque.
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[20:17:28] <anonimasu> i plan on taperlock for my small mill for ballscrew to motor couplings
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[20:27:42] <mrsun> gah, so hard to know what the original size of the pulley on the lathe is ....
[20:27:44] <mrsun> (the one on the lathe
[20:27:46] <mrsun> )
[20:27:58] <mrsun> i guess i need to take it off and realy measure the hell out of it
[20:30:04] <mrsun> i guess i could use a vfd insted, but then i wouldnt have the grunt a motor has when its geared way down with first pulleys then with backgear :P
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[20:36:12] <anonimasu> grunt is overrated :)
[20:36:29] <anonimasu> <- drills 59mm holes regularily
[20:37:19] <mrsun> with what spindle power? :P
[20:37:26] <syyl> i remember back to my aprenticeship
[20:37:41] <syyl> as the boss showed me how to drill a 40mm hole
[20:37:57] <syyl> without pre drilling a smaller hole :D
[20:38:10] <syyl> i was just like ":O"
[20:38:10] <mrsun> not to good :P
[20:38:19] <syyl> na, its no problem
[20:38:33] <syyl> heavy machine and go fot it
[20:38:39] <mrsun> as you got very little cutting capability at the center of the drill it is :P
[20:38:45] <mrsun> atleast in my world
[20:38:49] <syyl> yeah
[20:38:54] <mrsun> alot of frictional heat :P
[20:38:56] <syyl> but you can thin out the centre of a drill
[20:38:58] <mrsun> but yes, big machine :P
[20:39:06] <syyl> and with a big machine + powerfeed
[20:39:08] <syyl> pff :D
[20:43:43] <mrsun> and i need to get the motor seperated from the lathe, the ones i bought them from had made some angle iron sticking out from the bed that the motor is mounted on .. every vibration goes straight into the whole machine
[20:46:43] <andypugh> 8i20s mounted: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/S1ZJCNqTQftxZanNiNeKYdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[20:47:01] <andypugh> And I break mrsuns rule of the internet with
[20:47:03] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jGa3mIgyUThN-t9JniruXtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[20:47:59] <andypugh> Which I am rather pleased with as it is the first time I have made something looking like an actual weld in aluminium. Even if it is rather ugly.
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[20:49:05] <anonimasu> mrsun: 11kw
[20:49:20] <mrsun> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/spatialmind/timingbeltdrive008.jpg thats how the grunt should be transfered :P
[20:49:48] <mrsun> but i will stick with V pulleys as that will be plenty enough
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[20:50:08] <anonimasu> slipping is good sometimes, it saves thigns.
[20:50:10] <anonimasu> things.
[20:51:27] <syyl> i looks almost like a weld, andypugh
[20:51:29] <syyl> :)
[20:51:33] <andypugh> mrsun: http://www.inductionheating.jp/PDFs/shrinkfitcalcs.pdf
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[20:51:57] <archivist> andypugh, the thing with aluminium welding is....has it penetrated, can look nice on the outside and its skin deep
[20:52:24] <andypugh> Yes. In fact it melted through on the back side.
[20:52:37] <andypugh> You know, the side I am not showing ;-)
[20:52:43] <archivist> good sign :)
[20:53:13] <andypugh> It's the first time I have seen Alu properly wet and run for me.
[20:53:29] <mrsun> anonimasu, yes, but slipping when taking light cuts is not :P
[20:53:48] <archivist> it is very easy for it to melt and run out
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[21:03:43] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:06:25] <Jymmm> Any reason why a smooth bore would be more regulated than a rifled bore ?
[21:06:55] <Jymmm> I would think the opposite would be true.
[21:08:10] <syyl> what?
[21:08:18] <Jymmm> accuracy
[21:09:03] <syyl> that a smooth bore gun is more accurate?
[21:09:24] <Jymmm> no, that a rifled bore would eb more accurate
[21:09:54] <syyl> thats what we were told back then
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[21:10:23] <Jymmm> So, again.... Any reason why a smooth bore would be more legally regulated than a rifled bore ?
[21:10:32] <syyl> ah
[21:10:34] <syyl> now i got it :D
[21:10:46] <syyl> maybe because you can shoot buckshop from a smooth bore?
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[21:10:51] <syyl> buck shot
[21:10:56] <anonimasu> looks like anything gun related is regulated like hell.
[21:11:15] <syyl> just as an idea
[21:11:36] <Jymmm> Well, there's a loophole that the ATF permits, but only on rifled bores. If it's a smooth bore, it's regulated.
[21:12:47] <syyl> in german weapon law, theres also an interesingt loophole
[21:13:02] <syyl> a gatling gun is not covered as a automatic weapon
[21:13:24] <Jymmm> syyl: but you guys can't have any guns or ammo anyway
[21:13:36] <syyl> not right
[21:13:57] <Jymmm> ?
[21:14:07] <syyl> if you are member of a gunclub for a specific time
[21:14:14] <syyl> you can own your own weapons
[21:14:14] <Jymmm> 1yr +
[21:14:19] <syyl> i think more
[21:14:29] <Jymmm> but you STILL have to keep track of your ammo
[21:14:38] <syyl> not realy
[21:15:14] <syyl> for example, if i buy the ammo at the gun range
[21:15:18] <syyl> no one keeps track
[21:15:35] <Jymmm> the dealers have to submt ammo sales annually
[21:16:23] <syyl> thats for sure
[21:16:29] <Jymmm> Sad that I'm actually looking at firerm laws in other countries =)
[21:16:36] <syyl> ;)
[21:16:45] <syyl> i dont bother with it
[21:16:52] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPrnyc03C2Q
[21:16:54] <syyl> as when i want to go shooting
[21:16:59] <syyl> i lend the gun at the range
[21:17:06] <Jymmm> borrow?
[21:17:17] <syyl> uhm yes
[21:17:22] <syyl> thats the right word, sry :D
[21:17:27] <Jymmm> np
[21:18:30] <syyl> they dont take a fee on the gun, but you have to buy the ammo there
[21:18:40] <syyl> and its a bit more expensive than in a normal shop
[21:19:27] <Jymmm> Yeah, same here when you rent a gun at the range. They want you to use their ammo.
[21:20:15] <syyl> i think its ok, as you dont have to bother with the gun afterwards, like cleaning
[21:20:56] <Jymmm> Well, I have ammo for firearms that I don't even own =)
[21:21:01] <syyl> :D
[21:24:52] <andypugh> This was a bit wierd. http://youtu.be/misu8O_ufpk
[21:31:25] <JT-Shop> crap, I'm back to "File not open" when I try to call a sub from the mdi ...
[21:34:30] <_abc_> Jymmm: you are suspect of being a terrorist aide :)
[21:34:41] <Jymmm> ?
[21:34:45] <_abc_> I think that they consider all freenode users terrorists until proven otherwise
[21:35:04] <Jymmm> _abc_: what are you taking about?
[21:35:17] <_abc_> Does anyone *else* run his linuxcnc mill pc through ssh tunnelled X11 as I just did? :)
[21:35:24] <_abc_> Jymmm: it was a bad joke, and sarcasm
[21:35:52] <Jymmm> _abc_: I understand that, but I was wondering where the terrorist part comes into the joke?
[21:36:12] <_abc_> Jymmm: it comes from reading a lot of DHS foot@mouth stories. Note: I am in Europe.
[21:36:28] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: is more of a terrorist than me, he built a BIG ASS GUN =)
[21:36:28] <_abc_> It also comes from reading theregister.co.uk
[21:36:59] <_abc_> Hush don't tell anyone that the tube drills are hard enough to be used as gun barrells out of the factory door
[21:37:14] <_abc_> Next you'll need a license to buy them
[21:37:38] <Jymmm> _abc_: but are they rifle bored is the question =)
[21:37:57] <Jymmm> If not, how do you get them to be =)
[21:38:43] <_abc_> They are not rifle bored so they make perfect *mortar* tubes. Heh.
[21:38:46] <_abc_> Think outside the box.
[21:39:02] <syyl> or a shotgun barrel
[21:39:20] <Jymmm> _abc_: I'm think more like this, the insert... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPrnyc03C2Q
[21:39:41] <_abc_> Anyway I don't deal with such things normally so, again, does anyone run his/her mill (noisy etc) remotely using ssh -f ... ?
[21:39:57] <_abc_> I just did and the experience is good, the gui runs on the remote machine and is much faster than normal
[21:39:58] <Jymmm> _abc_: But to LEGALLY use flare gun + insert, the barrel has to be rifle bored.
[21:40:05] <_abc_> Well half of it runs on the remote machine...
[21:40:12] <_abc_> Jymmm: really?
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[21:40:22] <_abc_> I thought flare barrels are smooth?
[21:40:47] <_abc_> Shows how little I know about guns heh
[21:40:59] * _abc_ did not army service - in several countries :/
[21:41:05] <Jymmm> _abc_: flare gun barrels are, but the .22lr INSERT isn't for legal purposes http://www.kennesawcannon.com/images1/batf.pdf
[21:41:19] <Jymmm> _abc_: http://www.kennesawcannon.com/subcaliberinsert.php
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[21:41:33] <Jymmm> _abc_: you have to watch that video to understand
[21:41:41] <_abc_> Okay, I believe you.
[21:41:54] <_abc_> Is the idea that the rifling wastes a lot of energy from the 0.22?
[21:42:03] <Jymmm> hang on
[21:42:16] <_abc_> Just a sec I need to get a glass of umm liquid
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[21:43:16] <_abc_> okay I will go soon, it is 1AM here
[21:43:50] <Jymmm> _abc_: well read that PDF whenever, additionally.... http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html
[21:44:09] <_abc_> Hm thanks, maybe some other time.
[21:44:43] <Jymmm> So basically, I want a METAL flare gun, then make/buy inserts for it =)
[21:45:46] <_abc_> Guns are overrated, we live in the era of missiles. They come in every size and shape and make normal tubes somewhat outdated.
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[21:45:57] * _abc_ leaves
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[21:46:03] <Jymmm> lol
[21:46:27] <Jymmm> You tell the Momma bear charging at you that and see what she thinks about it =)
[21:46:58] <andypugh> I think she would be fairly easily distracted by a shoulder-fired sidewinder.
[21:47:25] <Jymmm> I happen to have two of those in my pocket !
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[21:47:58] <andypugh> And I thought you were just glad to see me
[21:48:35] <Jymmm> We were deer hunting once, so had high powered rifles with us. BUT... in a clearing we saw two cubs playing, we knew momma was around "somewhere" and got the hell out of there as fast as we could!
[21:48:38] <Jymmm> andypugh: lol
[21:49:20] <Jymmm> Remember kids... Don't mess with Momma!
[21:49:24] <andypugh> Seems wise, apart from anything else I doubt you really want to be killing any bears you don't need to?
[21:50:12] <Jymmm> Yeah, I don't like hunting for sport PERIOD.
[21:50:28] <Jymmm> Food, sure. Never for the sack of sport.
[21:50:31] <Jymmm> sake
[21:50:45] <andypugh> If you don't eat it, I am not sure it is hunting?
[21:51:04] <andypugh> It's more along the lines of recreational killing.
[21:51:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well, some have a fucked up view and value of life.
[21:51:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: That is the ONLY reason I don't like cats... they hunt for sport.
[21:52:29] <andypugh> Yes. And they leave unidentifiable body parts where bare feet can find them.
[21:52:56] <Jymmm> But my hatred is not limited to cats, but ANY being that hunts for sport, be it 2 or 4 legged.
[21:52:57] <Gromits> psha: thanks for updating linuxcnc/emc packages but there is still a problem. I will send email to the mailing list...
[21:53:51] <JT-Shop> damm this is frustrating...........
[21:54:02] <Jymmm> andypugh: For all intent and purposes, I actually prefer non-lethal weapons.
[21:55:00] * Jymmm would hand JT-Shop a beer, but he probably has better stuff than I could offer.
[21:55:04] <andypugh> Jymmm: I don't want to worry you, but that opinion pushed to the limit to achieve internal consistency is what made me decide to be vegetarian.
[21:55:34] <andypugh> psha, he not there.
[21:56:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well, if I had to kill my own food, I probably would be a vegan 100% of the time. But I suspect so would a majority of the people.
[21:57:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: So far this month, I had a pepperoni pizza. But that's the only meat thus far.
[21:57:40] <andypugh> Indeed. Need new shoes, kill a cow. Though presumably you get used to it, as folk used to have to do exactly that.
[21:58:04] <andypugh> Pepperoni pizza was the hardest thing to say godbye to.
[21:58:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: Oh, hmmm. so do you have/own any leather products then?
[21:59:09] <Jymmm> belt? knife shife? boots? gloves?
[21:59:14] <andypugh> Yes. I have a full set of motorcycle leathers. If I needed to replace them I would buy second-hand. But I hope not to need to. I was carnivorous when I bought them.
[22:00:02] <Jymmm> andypugh: Leather belt is difficult to replace, but leather gloves but be damn near impossible
[22:00:43] <Jymmm> all the synthetic gloves are just crap.
[22:04:33] * JT-Shop gives up for the day and wanders off
[22:05:29] <andypugh> Luckily the boot maker I favour can make Lorica versions if my current ones run out of resole life. http://www.altberg.co.uk/Web/motorcycle.jsp
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[23:02:15] <r00t4rd3d> http://k2cnc.com/shop/proddetail.asp?prod=RM-B-Colt
[23:02:18] <r00t4rd3d> im getting that
[23:02:24] <r00t4rd3d> soon as its back in stock ffs
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[23:04:16] <jdhNC> two #10's seems kind of weak
[23:05:37] <jdhNC> anyone bought any helium lately?
[23:05:51] <andypugh> $54 for a too-thin chink of metal with a hole in it?
[23:06:08] <jdhNC> c'mon, it has 3 holes.
[23:06:51] <jdhNC> I guess 4 if you count the big one.
[23:07:09] <andypugh> Why isn't it twice as high?
[23:07:23] <jdhNC> looks like there would be plenty of room on the router
[23:08:02] <andypugh> Indeed. And it is clamping plastic, more area has to be good.
[23:09:50] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: You might be getting the impression we think it is over-priced an under-designed?
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[23:10:43] <r00t4rd3d> also out of stock, something must be good about it.
[23:11:32] <r00t4rd3d> k2 isnt legit?
[23:12:29] <andypugh> I don't undrstand the question
[23:15:01] <r00t4rd3d> was more of a statement
[23:18:11] <jdhNC> it is probably fine for cutting plastic/wood
[23:19:19] <r00t4rd3d> So I ordered a special contractors pencil and aluminum pencil armor. They didnt send me the pencil.
[23:19:28] <jdhNC> all of their other mounts look better than that one,.
[23:20:02] <jdhNC> maybe 'better' isn't the right word.
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[23:24:13] <r00t4rd3d> more awesome?
[23:24:16] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: If you were in the UK I would just suggest you send me some metal and I would make the holes in it. That one just looks liable to lack X-axis stiffness to me.
[23:24:38] <r00t4rd3d> ill give it some viagra
[23:25:20] <r00t4rd3d> i get special offers for the stuff daily
[23:26:14] <andypugh> I will be making something rather like their Hitachi mount tomorrow, for connecting my controller pole to the side of the mill. I anticipate mainly using the lathe.
[23:26:37] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Do you have a lathe?
[23:26:47] <r00t4rd3d> im not set in stone on a Bosch Colt yet but i like the price
[23:27:02] <r00t4rd3d> no lathe
[23:27:14] <r00t4rd3d> I use my drill press as one on occasion though
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[23:27:24] <andypugh> I have heard good things about them. But that mount is a goodly proportion of the price of the router
[23:27:53] <r00t4rd3d> well i dont want a shitty mount
[23:27:53] <jdhNC> what's a controller pole?
[23:28:03] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, andypugh, was anything resolved with the live CD install issue?
[23:28:16] <andypugh> It's a pole with a CNC controller on top.
[23:28:16] <Tom_itx> i noticed some chatter in -devel about it
[23:28:43] <r00t4rd3d> why do you mount your controller on a pole?
[23:28:54] <Tom_itx> why not?
[23:29:12] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes, you need to either be off the internet, or have less than 4GB RAM installed. Otherwise the liveCD installs a large-memory kernel from the net..
[23:29:42] <andypugh> _Very_ random
[23:29:50] <Tom_itx> i'll try unplugging the cable and doing the install again then just to see
[23:29:59] <andypugh> That would be fun
[23:30:27] <Tom_itx> ?
[23:30:36] <r00t4rd3d> i just did a 2.5 install with 4gig of mem without net access and it worked
[23:30:48] <r00t4rd3d> like a week ago
[23:31:10] <r00t4rd3d> so the no net thing should work
[23:31:50] <r00t4rd3d> i have to manually install my wireless drivers
[23:32:00] <r00t4rd3d> from source
[23:32:04] <r00t4rd3d> fun fun
[23:32:46] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: This: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/N7Z88ai8cR7012cckm4ihdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink needs to sit in a convenient place adjacent to this: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oO2xAcfqpCn7CWRlUOs8ydMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink so my plan is to mount it on top of this: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jGa3mIgyUThN-t9JniruXtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[23:34:45] <r00t4rd3d> reading that about gave me a seizure
[23:34:50] <Tom_itx> if you do that will it not install network drivers?
[23:35:22] <r00t4rd3d> i have to black list the included one cause ubuntu devs are shitforbrains.
[23:35:50] <Tom_itx> ok here goes nuthin
[23:35:53] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: yea if you have more than 3.2Gb of ram unplug from the internet before installing from the LiveCD
[23:35:54] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[23:36:37] <Tom_itx> that's a rather silly quirk
[23:36:40] <JT-Shop> now if I can just finger out why I can't run a subroutine from MDI on the plasma but I can on the BP
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[23:37:09] <Tom_itx> does the BP face east?
[23:37:13] <JT-Shop> ubuntu kindly removes the real time kernel and all things depenent on it for your
[23:37:19] <JT-Shop> no, west
[23:37:26] <Tom_itx> thars yer problem
[23:37:28] <Tom_itx> :)
[23:37:35] <r00t4rd3d> im sure there is a command line switch to install without searching for updates.
[23:38:04] <r00t4rd3d> not that unplugging your net is a big deal
[23:38:46] <Tom_itx> knowing is the big deal
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[23:39:55] <JT-Shop> well if you think of anything else besides turning the plasma monitor to face east let me know
[23:40:09] <JT-Shop> i'm out of guesses dammit
[23:40:33] <Tom_itx> you compared your ini and hal files?
[23:41:53] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Hang it fromt eh ceiling facing downward
[23:42:05] <Tom_itx> you gave me your plasma setup to get mine goin and it works fine
[23:42:19] <Tom_itx> i'd compare the two setups to make sure there isn't some suttle difference
[23:42:49] <Jymmm> Think it's time to dump ubuntu for debian instead?
[23:43:04] <Tom_itx> emc run on debian?
[23:43:10] <Jymmm> yeah
[23:43:22] <Tom_itx> you have to build it manually don't you?
[23:43:55] <Jymmm> No, I mean as the new released standard base distro
[23:43:56] <andypugh> LinuxCNC on RISCOS on RaspberyPi. It's the future :-)
[23:44:15] <Tom_itx> if you could get a Pi first
[23:44:16] <Jymmm> No, I mean as the new released standard base distro for LinuxCNC
[23:44:22] <Tom_itx> naw
[23:44:37] <Jymmm> No more ubuntu dpenpedancy bullshit
[23:46:12] <Dave911> Andy.. do you actually have a RaspberryPI ? I'm on a waiting list.
[23:47:18] <r00t4rd3d> lol, ubuntu is debian
[23:47:27] <r00t4rd3d> same dep bs
[23:47:55] <Dave911> Does anyone have a Raspberry Pi yet?
[23:48:09] <Jymmm> No, Ubuntu is Debian Testing for one, and two Ubuntu does their own voodoo for the added dependancies.
[23:48:37] <r00t4rd3d> u crazy!
[23:48:41] <andypugh> I am waiting too, but I have friends with them.
[23:49:08] <andypugh> For example: http://ian-nic.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/pi-server.html
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[23:51:51] <Dave911> Interesting ... thanks..
[23:54:14] <JT-Shop> I just opened up the axis sim on the Bell and calling subs works fine
[23:54:45] <Tom_itx> well son of a gun. it installed with the cable unplugged
[23:55:17] <JT-Shop> ok, you got that fixed now fix my broken plasma LOL
[23:55:41] <Tom_itx> plasma???
[23:55:49] <Tom_itx> i thought it was the bp
[23:55:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: What did you do that broke it? Edit config? Update? soemthign else?
[23:56:58] <Tom_itx> but wait... you gave me your setup from the plasma for MDI subs and they work fine
[23:57:34] <JT-Shop> everything at once
[23:57:42] <Jymmm> ah
[23:58:05] <JT-Shop> axis sim which creates linuxcnc/nc_files and configs works
[23:58:20] <JT-Shop> must be something hard coded about the path somewhere
[23:58:37] <JT-Shop> axis sim works fine on the plasma