#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-06-18

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[00:00:15] <CaptHindsight> I make my own printers
[00:00:32] <CaptHindsight> but we get asked about this all the time since we make resins
[00:00:42] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: What ARE the resins they/it uses?
[00:01:46] <CaptHindsight> 405nm cured acrylated epoxies, urethane's and polyesters
[00:02:18] <Jymmm> k
[00:03:19] <CaptHindsight> http://formlabs.com/store/us/form-2/buy-materials/ looks like they are 3-10x the price of ours
[00:04:46] <Jymmm> Wait.... $60 for a EMPTY tank, then have to replace it after 2L, then $300 worth of resin too?!
[00:05:14] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I'm not sure what people are thinking when they buy these
[00:05:31] <djdelorie> they're thinking "$60 is cheap for resin"
[00:05:35] <Jymmm> Not realizing that, fir starters.
[00:06:02] <XXCoder> fire starter?
[00:06:02] <CaptHindsight> probably the slick marketing and lack of knowledge of the resins and other options
[00:06:37] <XXCoder> what is resin properies like?
[00:06:39] <Jymmm> I thought "tank" was just tech-clang for a resin
[00:06:45] <Jymmm> slang*
[00:06:57] <Jymmm> like "sketch" or "shield"
[00:07:18] <CaptHindsight> no, an actual tank with rfid chip
[00:07:43] <Jymmm> that's fucked up
[00:07:56] <CaptHindsight> yeah, like an inkjet printer
[00:08:00] <XXCoder> printer companu
[00:08:07] <CaptHindsight> take the customers for they are worth
[00:08:16] <CaptHindsight> for all
[00:08:29] <XXCoder> increase price till they complain and increase it 50% more
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[00:23:43] <CaptHindsight> http://us.xyzprinting.com/us_en/Product/Nobel-1.0 is only $1100
[00:24:05] <CaptHindsight> yet people opt for the $3500 form2
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[00:26:45] <CaptHindsight> same board could run the Nobel 1
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[00:28:33] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: had a discussion today with several laser marking suppliers
[00:29:52] <CaptHindsight> they all mark up a few $K in laser, power supply, galvo and lenses to $20k or more since they all seemed to think that integration and their controller were worth it
[00:30:52] <CaptHindsight> they were all unaware that Linuxcnc + a servo controller did way more than their closed winders controller can ever do
[00:33:03] <t12> why try and be cheaper
[00:33:15] <t12> just do a better job and charge the same or more
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[00:36:03] <CaptHindsight> the money is in the materials, never the depositions equipment
[00:36:13] <CaptHindsight> it's always a race to the bottom for the printers
[00:36:48] <t12> yeah but
[00:36:55] <t12> im saying why win that race
[00:37:16] <t12> races to the bottom suck
[00:37:21] <CaptHindsight> if you want to make printers
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[00:37:54] <t12> more valuable to provide useful things to mfglines than shave a few thou of costs
[00:38:26] <CaptHindsight> those are just toy printers for protos and custom yodas
[00:38:45] <CaptHindsight> printers for manufacturing are another story
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[00:40:00] <t12> er sorry not folling conversation as usual
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[00:40:12] <CaptHindsight> manufacturing systems are closer to CNC machines than these toys
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[00:41:43] <CaptHindsight> so the bullet points are: for some reason people opt for the $3500 form2 vs other low cost SLA printers
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[00:42:26] <CaptHindsight> I'm going to make a linuxcnc board to swap out the controllers in these printers
[00:42:38] <os1r1s> CaptHindsight The biggest benefit of the form2 is the software
[00:42:41] <CaptHindsight> it will bypass any DRM in the printers
[00:43:11] <CaptHindsight> os1r1s: what is the benefit of their software?
[00:43:21] <CaptHindsight> slicing?
[00:43:34] <os1r1s> The software autopositions and provides a support structure
[00:43:47] <os1r1s> I have two open source SLA printers and a form2
[00:44:04] <os1r1s> Creation Workshop sucks
[00:44:14] <CaptHindsight> it sure does
[00:44:31] <os1r1s> And b9creator is still fairly primitive
[00:45:07] <CaptHindsight> plus CW went closed and charges $500 a seat now
[00:45:15] <os1r1s> On the form2 I'd say the autorefill puts it ahead of the OS alternatives.
[00:45:38] <os1r1s> CaptHindsight Yeah, I still have the source from before the douchebag did that
[00:45:52] <os1r1s> I am quite bitter about it :)
[00:46:05] <CaptHindsight> autorefill of the resin or is that some feature in the slicer?
[00:46:15] <os1r1s> CaptHindsight That's a printer feature
[00:46:27] <os1r1s> So it senses the resin level and adds it when necessary
[00:46:32] <CaptHindsight> what does it do?
[00:46:37] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: What brand laser?
[00:46:43] <os1r1s> Its not needed on short printers, but it is sure nice on 21+ hour prints
[00:46:52] <os1r1s> err, short prints
[00:47:09] <CaptHindsight> oh it just tops off the resin in the vat
[00:47:14] <os1r1s> Yep
[00:47:23] <os1r1s> So you don't have to keep running to the printer and adding more
[00:47:35] <os1r1s> Under 4 hours and it really doesn't matter
[00:47:40] <CaptHindsight> not too difficult to do
[00:48:06] <os1r1s> No, but overnight prints are awful nice
[00:48:23] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: for what?
[00:48:39] <os1r1s> CaptHindsight https://www.dropbox.com/s/08x7y6sivp10sul/F2FGArmy.jpg?dl=0
[00:49:06] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Whatever company this is: "they all mark up a few $K in laser, power supply, galvo and lenses to $20k or more since they all seemed to think that integration and their controller were worth it"
[00:49:15] <CaptHindsight> the form1, 2 limit you to their 5-6 resins, that's like a drill press that only works with 5 drill sizes
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[00:51:08] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: vy-tek, nutfield, laserphotonics, domino, trotec, fslaser, videojet etc
[00:51:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Well, Trotec is pricy, but they make some damn fine lasers
[00:52:09] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: and back theri shit up
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[00:53:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.trotec-marking.com/en-US/Lasermachines/marking-laser/oem-laser/Pages/SpeedMarker-CL.aspx
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[00:53:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.trotec-marking.com/en-US/Lasermachines/accessories/Options/Pages/Galvo-marking-head.aspx
[00:53:25] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: If one doesn't need that kind of support, there are some good lasers out of china
[00:53:43] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I need US made for the guberment
[00:54:15] <CaptHindsight> otherwsie i can fly to honk kong and some back with all the parts next week
[00:54:22] <CaptHindsight> some/come
[00:55:20] <Jymmm> not parts, whole machines. Like will do 24x48"
[00:56:06] <XXCoder> goverment requires usa made alone equipment?
[00:56:32] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: often yes, especially when it's DOD or labs
[00:56:58] <XXCoder> interesting
[00:57:11] <XXCoder> make your own. couldnt be more usa made than that ;)
[00:57:27] <CaptHindsight> security and also revenue feedback loop
[00:58:33] <CaptHindsight> guberment contract for say $100k, and maybe 10-25% ends up going back to guberment as tax
[00:59:03] <CaptHindsight> vs foreign entity
[00:59:17] <XXCoder> woul be funny if they passed, if bought for goverment projects, 100% taxed :P
[00:59:45] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLqBSnSaUkE
[01:00:03] <CaptHindsight> so every contract would be doubled in cost
[01:00:11] <XXCoder> indeed
[01:00:46] <CaptHindsight> now you start to see how they can play games with the books
[01:02:09] <XXCoder> $20,000 tiolets
[01:02:22] <enleth> I just figured out what do do with the ORAC lacking a spindle guard to prevent people from embedding the chuck key in their faces when they leave it in - have a keyhole for it on the control panel, with the key being required to turn the VFD on
[01:02:57] <CaptHindsight> os1r1s: did you use CW with Marlin on a *duino?
[01:03:21] <enleth> somehow it's not a common feature so it's either a huge PITA to deal with or I just invented something revolutionary. probably the former.
[01:03:22] <CaptHindsight> marlin is awful as well
[01:04:45] <skunkworks> enleth, I have seen that done before
[01:05:20] <skunkworks> XXCoder, matsuura
[01:05:23] <enleth> shouln't be a PITA actually, you have to put the key *somewhere* anyway so a hole intended for just this purpose near the chuck should be conveniet
[01:09:55] <os1r1s> CaptHindsight The form1 and 2 do not limit you to resins
[01:10:26] <os1r1s> CaptHindsight On a duino and a smoothie on the 2 machines.
[01:11:38] <XXCoder> I want to try make something but dunno what lol
[01:13:14] <Jymmm> XXCoder: carrot cake
[01:13:30] <XXCoder> my favorite. hmm
[01:13:32] <XXCoder> nah
[01:13:38] <Jymmm> wuss
[01:13:45] <XXCoder> not much of cooker
[01:14:19] <Jymmm> burn water huh?
[01:14:30] <CaptHindsight> os1r1s: rfid on the cartridge and lack of user settings for laser rate, power, dwell, layer thickness etc unless you pay extra to unlock the software?
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[01:14:54] <XXCoder> Jymmm: they are still researching how I acciently made fusion happen in pot of water
[01:15:19] <Jymmm> XXCoder: you farted in the water, we know <rolls eyes>
[01:15:23] <XXCoder> lol
[01:15:39] <os1r1s> CaptHindsight You are thinking of FSL
[01:15:42] <os1r1s> Not formlabs
[01:16:06] <os1r1s> There are alternative resins from MJ and Madesolid that work fine
[01:16:11] <os1r1s> brb
[01:17:33] <CaptHindsight> os1r1s: formlabs is backwards, you need to make resins compatible with what the form 1, 2 have for settings
[01:18:11] <os1r1s> Correct. But at least there are alternatives and they work
[01:18:39] <os1r1s> The software is what makes the F1/2 valuable
[01:19:24] <CaptHindsight> it's backwards since a printer should be able to work with wide range of resins with a wide range of properties
[01:20:05] <CaptHindsight> unless you're happy with their narrow range of resins
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[01:32:05] * zeeshan has walked into what he suspects to be is a 3d printing conversation
[01:32:06] * zeeshan leaves
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[01:33:51] <gkwhc> might anyone here be familiar with traditional milling machines? i was wondering if theres a way to mill a graded (sloped) channel?
[01:33:53] * tiwake pokes zeeshan
[01:34:13] <zeeshan> put the channel on an angle
[01:34:15] <tiwake> gkwhc: you gotta prop one end up
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[01:34:39] * tiwake flails at zeeshan
[01:34:50] <gregcnc> zee show him the video you did
[01:35:18] <XXCoder> hey the Z
[01:35:19] <zeeshan> gkwhc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTyLod4mn-E
[01:35:20] <zeeshan> :p
[01:35:27] <tiwake> gkwhc: yay for trigonometry
[01:35:37] <XXCoder> oh watched that before
[01:35:45] <CaptHindsight> who'd buy a drill press or a mill that only works with a few cutting tool sizes?
[01:35:46] <XXCoder> gonna love trig
[01:36:05] <tiwake> XXCoder: I hate it... lol
[01:36:09] <tiwake> at least in math class
[01:36:16] <tiwake> they make you memorize everything
[01:36:23] <XXCoder> really? its most fun of all math subjects
[01:36:32] <XXCoder> I hated calculus III but mainly because teacher sucked
[01:36:33] <tiwake> in calculus I didnt have to memorize anything
[01:36:45] <zeeshan> what is point of memorization
[01:36:50] <zeeshan> :P
[01:37:10] <tiwake> oh, except for differential equations... my teacher tried to make me memorize stuff, but I dropped that class
[01:37:11] <zeeshan> d/dy (sinx) = cos x?
[01:37:11] <tiwake> lol
[01:37:34] <tiwake> physics was fun too
[01:37:53] <XXCoder> ingerate 0 to infinity square root of X
[01:38:07] <CaptHindsight> since they don't know how to apply it or use it to solve actual problems you have the make the work a chore
[01:38:24] <CaptHindsight> we used to call it "crank"
[01:39:00] <CaptHindsight> since you just crank the handle to get the result
[01:39:58] <tiwake> that seemed to be physics
[01:40:03] <tiwake> well no
[01:40:12] <tiwake> yeah, math people
[01:40:37] <tiwake> physics is basically applied math, and engineering is applied physics
[01:40:58] <tiwake> more or less
[01:41:14] <tiwake> and machinists is applied engineering
[01:41:17] <XXCoder> tiwake: https://xkcd.com/435/
[01:41:43] <tiwake> heh, yeah
[01:41:55] <tiwake> math people are rather strange
[01:43:08] <zeeshan> XXCoder: was that a serious q
[01:43:12] <zeeshan> u should remember that!
[01:43:26] <XXCoder> zeeshan: nah lol
[01:43:29] <zeeshan> rewrite as x^(1/2)
[01:43:34] <XXCoder> I know
[01:43:42] <zeeshan> then add one to the exponent and move the reciprocal down
[01:43:44] <zeeshan> bammmmmmmmm
[01:44:06] <XXCoder> yeah its very simple lol
[01:44:44] <zeeshan> but how are you supposed to integrate it to infinity
[01:44:49] <zeeshan> ;[
[01:44:56] <XXCoder> indeed. that was joke part
[01:49:18] <zeeshan> what is joke
[01:49:20] <zeeshan> :-)
[01:49:28] <XXCoder> lol
[01:49:36] <XXCoder> well whats ya doing
[01:49:47] <zeeshan> relaxing :D
[01:49:49] <XXCoder> oh and did you see my project fail video? lol
[01:49:50] <zeeshan> i get my truck tommo
[01:49:51] <zeeshan> excited
[01:49:51] <zeeshan> no
[01:49:58] <XXCoder> lemme get video link
[01:50:17] <XXCoder> dont worry I already guessed it was a failure and chatted about changes here
[01:50:33] <zeeshan> :)
[01:50:41] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sojJgCfDbp4
[01:50:55] <XXCoder> also got a nice drill vise that fits on my cnc router! that thing was awesome
[01:57:04] <gkwhc> tiwake, zeeshan: ahh great tip, why didnt i think of that?!
[01:57:21] <XXCoder> zeeshan: so what ya think lol
[01:57:54] <zeeshan> im suprised you didnt snap your end mill
[01:57:55] <zeeshan> :P
[01:58:30] <XXCoder> nylon is pretty soft. probably not enough to break em
[01:58:33] <XXCoder> but yeah lol
[01:58:43] <XXCoder> it was real though getting the danged em out
[01:58:46] <XXCoder> tough
[01:59:08] <XXCoder> I used my drill press to hold it while I rocked part around, that finally loosened it
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[02:00:25] <XXCoder> zeeshan: know whats strange? em is still usable. nice and sharp
[02:00:35] <XXCoder> just has plastic melted on it
[02:01:01] <zeeshan> yea pretty hard to dull an end mill w/ plastic
[02:01:07] <XXCoder> yeah.
[02:01:13] <gregcnc> you can melt aluminum on endmills and still be fine
[02:01:19] <XXCoder> my machine cant cut alum for now
[02:01:42] <XXCoder> I ordered cheap 6061 alum blocks so i can machine em at work to make adoptor plates
[02:01:55] <gregcnc> I just pry the aluminum out of the flutes, or there is acid
[02:01:57] <XXCoder> gregcnc: melt alum? (my tool is HSS btw
[02:02:04] <gregcnc> oh carbide
[02:02:23] <XXCoder> it looks almost carbide because of plastic on it lol
[02:03:10] <gregcnc> sure high spindle speed low feed rate, poor chip clearing and soon you have aluminum melting like your plastic
[02:03:28] * zeeshan snaps end mills when aluminum gums up
[02:03:28] <zeeshan> :D
[02:03:50] <XXCoder> too many flutes dont help either
[02:04:23] <gregcnc> if axis thrust is weak or you quick on the estop the endmill may not break
[02:04:27] <XXCoder> it probably would have ran better with single flute
[02:04:42] <gregcnc> two flute is OK
[02:06:59] <zeeshan> all depends on your setup :P
[02:07:02] <XXCoder> yeah
[02:07:06] <zeeshan> i have cut aluminum fine with 4 flute
[02:07:16] <zeeshan> w/ mist and air blast
[02:07:28] <XXCoder> its just too fast. even with around 1/2 power (I dknow how DC scales down with power) its still too fast
[02:07:31] <zeeshan> breaks pretty quick without
[02:07:44] <XXCoder> and bit weak to boot. second part I set to 75% power
[02:07:58] <XXCoder> I really need some sort of cooling system
[02:09:36] <gregcnc> shopvac works ok to get chip out
[02:11:21] <XXCoder> yeah
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[02:18:51] <zeeshan> i found out what was causing ctrl + k to not working
[02:18:53] <zeeshan> and other keys
[02:18:55] <zeeshan> linuxcnc-features
[02:18:56] <zeeshan> :/
[02:22:20] <Tom_itx> whassup zee
[02:22:27] <zeeshan> not much
[02:22:28] <zeeshan> you
[02:22:28] <zeeshan> :D
[02:22:44] <Tom_itx> how do you know your indicator wasn't moving when you pushed it uphill?
[02:23:12] <zeeshan> repeat
[02:23:20] <Tom_itx> how do you know your indicator wasn't moving when you pushed it uphill?
[02:23:59] <Tom_itx> you should have a roller on the tip
[02:24:21] <zeeshan> =P
[02:24:25] <Tom_itx> but it gets the job done i suppose
[02:24:55] <Tom_itx> dunno what happened to sound here...
[02:24:57] <zeeshan> its faster than busting out the sine plate and gag blocks :P
[02:30:17] <Tom_itx> been tryin to wrap my head around this oops programming
[02:30:25] <zeeshan> damn you objects!
[02:30:30] <XXCoder> object orented programming
[02:31:01] <Tom_itx> my old dos code still outperforms it hands down
[02:31:36] <XXCoder> its very handy sometmes
[02:35:30] <Tom_itx> getting things to do what i want hasn't been the easiest
[02:44:12] <XXCoder> whats you making anyway
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[02:50:52] <roycroft> my "scratch and dent" motor arrived today
[02:50:58] <roycroft> in the factory box, with the factory manual
[02:51:08] <roycroft> it appears to have never been used at all
[02:51:25] <roycroft> but there are a couple scuff marks on it, as though it sat on a shelf, unboxed, for a while
[02:52:00] <roycroft> since i paid a fraction of what it normally costs, i'm fine with that :)
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[02:57:30] <XXCoder> yeah
[02:57:33] <XXCoder> if it works it works.
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[03:59:50] <XXCoder> watched some of black hole footage
[03:59:54] <XXCoder> man it was weird movie.
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[04:57:44] <pink_vampire> hi
[04:58:12] <XXCoder> hey
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[05:05:49] <XXCoder> hows yo pink_vampire
[05:06:01] <pink_vampire> hi XXCoder
[05:07:02] <XXCoder> current;ly cutting HDPE bottles of soylent up lol
[05:07:07] <XXCoder> boring.
[05:07:11] <XXCoder> you?
[05:08:10] <pink_vampire> I just got very nice bar of aluminum.
[05:08:48] <pink_vampire> I think i told you..
[05:09:16] <pink_vampire> so i want to make something cool out of it.
[05:09:29] <XXCoder> yeah?
[05:09:32] <roycroft> aluminium generally feels cool to the touch
[05:09:41] <roycroft> so you're well-positioned for success
[05:09:53] <roycroft> unless you set it out in the sun
[05:10:17] <XXCoder> then it's hot! can't lose!
[05:10:29] <roycroft> hot is cool
[05:11:27] <pink_vampire> O_o
[05:12:02] <XXCoder> hm
[05:12:22] <XXCoder> just 2 bottles of soylent makes surpising amount of HDPE material
[05:15:17] <pink_vampire> what do you want to do with all the hdpe??
[05:15:33] <XXCoder> make HDPE brick
[05:15:39] <XXCoder> mill it or something
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[05:22:08] <pink_vampire> did you fix your spindle issue?
[05:22:09] <FloppyDisk> cool
[05:22:22] <XXCoder> nah still have not yet made adoptor plates
[05:22:32] <XXCoder> company machines is rarely free
[05:23:19] <pink_vampire> i want to build a 3d printer head.
[05:23:57] <XXCoder> nicde
[05:24:24] <pink_vampire> I saw the micron dual head, and it look nice.
[05:24:35] <pink_vampire> it's*
[05:25:42] <pink_vampire> http://micron3dp.com/collections/all-metal-extruders/products/cobra-dual-head-extruder-high-temperature-version
[05:25:45] <pink_vampire> that one.
[05:26:22] <XXCoder> dang $900 lol be cheaper to make your own
[05:26:38] <pink_vampire> i know..
[05:27:24] <pink_vampire> but I didn't like the screw that adjust the pressure on the filament.
[05:28:54] <pink_vampire> they made the body out of aluminum. and the sharp tip of the screw will dig in to the metal.
[05:29:47] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: ^
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[05:34:01] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:34:17] <XXCoder> sorry was away washing few more bottles
[05:36:26] <XXCoder> there is few designs online you can use I guess
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[05:44:42] <pink_vampire> I saw a lot of stuff.
[05:48:02] <pink_vampire> what do you think about servo nema 34 as 3d printer extruder ?
[05:48:52] <XXCoder> im pretty sure it would work, but its pretty large for extuder motor?
[05:49:05] <XXCoder> what does usual 3d printer use for that task anyway
[05:49:24] <pink_vampire> I mean to force the plastic without heat it up.
[05:49:38] <XXCoder> ohh pressure heating.
[05:49:41] <XXCoder> good question
[05:49:47] <XXCoder> depends on material I bet'
[05:51:12] <pink_vampire> yes that what i mean.
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[05:54:09] <XXCoder> 6 bottles down and 3 to go lol
[05:56:12] <pink_vampire> build a shreder
[05:56:20] <XXCoder> I do need one lol
[05:56:36] <XXCoder> this manual cutting is because I don't want to spend money on testing
[05:57:32] <archivist> pink_vampire, you still need heat, pressure alone wont work
[05:58:26] <XXCoder> so boyle's law does not work
[05:58:28] <XXCoder> ?
[05:58:41] <pink_vampire> is there any benefit to high pressure?
[05:59:09] <roycroft> boyle's law is a law
[05:59:16] <roycroft> there are very few laws in science
[05:59:25] <roycroft> and those laws that are always work
[06:00:14] <pink_vampire> roycroft: i'm not sure what do you mean.
[06:00:34] <XXCoder> boyles law applies only to gas
[06:00:42] <XXCoder> so I guess I was mis-appling that lol
[06:03:20] <archivist> you also get heat from internal friction when transforming a material, but I am unaware of any law for that
[06:04:25] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: I remember reading someone using glow plugs for diesel engine used to heat plastioc
[06:04:45] <XXCoder> http://makezine.com/projects/guide-to-3d-printing-2014/glow-plug-3d-printer-extruder/
[06:06:22] <XXCoder> If i ever get 3d printer, I would build an unprinter so i can recycle plastics as well :) (but not hdpe unfortunately_)
[06:06:59] <XXCoder> one of those http://www.wired.com/2013/01/filabot-plastic-recycler/
[06:10:28] <pink_vampire> I'm not sure how to make the feeder wheel
[06:10:50] <XXCoder> the wheel that holds filments?
[06:10:59] <XXCoder> it comes with your buy of filements
[06:11:51] <pink_vampire> no no i mean to the thing that actually push the filament
[06:11:57] <XXCoder> ahh
[06:14:44] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI9zWh7cWMo
[06:14:55] <XXCoder> typical iphone crap video but interesting
[06:16:39] <archivist> I made some feeder gears and never got paid http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=drive+gear+pd
[06:17:04] <XXCoder> it feeds filement eh
[06:17:35] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjlSYxmL2sU
[06:17:59] <pink_vampire> I have no idea what she talk.
[06:18:36] <XXCoder> me neither since ot dont even have captions
[06:18:39] <XXCoder> auto
[06:18:53] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: ....
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[06:20:19] <XXCoder> weird that cut hdpe bottle edges is nice and soft, no sharp edge
[06:20:26] <XXCoder> corners though lol sharp
[06:21:20] <XXCoder> ah apparently some solders melt at 235C which is low enough for some 3d printers to be able to melt it
[06:21:33] <XXCoder> so basically solder printer
[06:43:32] <Valen> seen the ultrasonic soldering irons? can solder direct to glass which is intersting
[06:44:09] <XXCoder> no? interesting. normally you need umm gallenium? to wet glass
[06:45:29] <XXCoder> whew. 9 bottles, 9 oz of HDPE
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[06:56:36] <Deejay> moin
[06:57:03] <XXCoder> Valen: any videos or whatever?
[06:58:38] <Valen> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpJ8T8JWMMw
[06:59:25] <XXCoder> wow
[07:01:10] <Valen> theres a CNC one somewhere
[07:01:51] <XXCoder> interesting
[07:10:26] <Valen> XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XHO44L-c14
[07:11:05] <XXCoder> man misconfig and it shatters glass lol
[07:11:20] <Valen> this is the show off one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc15uTTm5ws
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[07:35:50] <XXCoder> drill as lathe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB-CVeGndl4
[07:53:45] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYKm9fzA1D8 interesting video
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[09:55:37] <andypugh> What’s the application of soldering to glass? I guess you could lay down PCB tracks on an ad-hoc basis.
[09:56:40] <XXCoder> not sure but its still pretty amazing
[09:56:52] <XXCoder> normally you need gallenium to wet glass
[09:57:03] <XXCoder> vacuum depost can do it, but weak
[09:57:21] <XXCoder> guy pulled on weld pretty hard and it stayed. its very strong
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[09:58:56] <andypugh> XXCoder: Yes, ye did look to be really trying.
[09:59:37] <XXCoder> yeah. well I think there is ponental uses
[09:59:45] <XXCoder> glass is cheaper than silican
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[10:01:08] <andypugh> Well, yes, but also not semi-conducting.
[10:01:18] <XXCoder> yeah
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[11:54:07] <RootB> Good morning linuxCNC
[11:54:42] <XXCoder> hey
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[12:39:17] <jthornton> hey
[12:39:46] <_methods> all the early birds
[12:39:59] <Tom_itx> that's right..
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[12:42:29] <_methods> woke up at 4:30am
[12:42:31] <_methods> wide awake
[12:42:42] <_methods> annoying
[12:42:57] <Tom_itx> i slept thru all the overnight storms
[12:43:08] <_methods> oh well got the morning walk and farmers market out of the way already
[12:43:21] <_methods> packin up tools to drop off the ar sandbox i made at the local makerspace
[12:51:08] <malcom2073> morning
[12:51:49] <malcom2073> I just got back from the parts store, trying to replace the power brake booster on my truck. I'm on booster number.... 4 including the ones that didn't get installed because they were wrong and/or broken from the box
[12:54:08] <_methods> i hate fixin cars
[12:54:33] <_methods> i always feel like i'm wasting time i could be workin on something more fun
[12:55:07] <malcom2073> I got a buddy who owns a shop to replace the master cylinder since it was worth it to have him do that while I was at work the other day, but the brake booster is easy enough that I can do it myself. I've gotten it down to 45 minutes to swap it
[12:55:41] <malcom2073> Zero quality control on a $300 part amuses me though, you'd think it was chinese made, probably is
[12:57:05] <Polymorphism> the chinese can make decent quality, they just choose to crank out cheap shit at the lowest price
[12:57:20] <malcom2073> I know
[12:57:30] <malcom2073> They choose to export cheap shit because we gobble it up
[12:57:42] <malcom2073> If this keeps up, I'ma get my money back and spend the $600 to buy a motorcraft part
[12:57:52] <malcom2073> at least then I can call someone who speaks english to complain about it then
[12:57:56] <Polymorphism> xD
[12:58:01] <malcom2073> $600 for a freaking vaccume booster
[12:58:22] <malcom2073> no electronics in it, nothing fancy, it's literally identical to my 1976 nova one, except it has one extra hole for a sensor (and it doesn't come with said sensor, just a hole)
[13:00:05] <Polymorphism> too much
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[13:03:40] <Polymorphism> bbl, cnc(construction) time
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[13:53:09] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: how is your cnc going on?
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[16:55:49] <JT-Shop> zlog
[16:55:49] <zlog> JT-Shop: Log stored at http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2016-06-18.html
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[17:29:38] <archivist> any able to read french just found an item in a box and seems someone else has one http://www.usinages.com/threads/visue-optique-de-marque-opl.14156/
[17:33:00] <Jymmm> Anyone interested? Machinery's Handbook 28th Edition PDF
[17:33:10] <archivist> google translate seems to think machine tool scale reader from the 1960's
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[17:39:09] <archivist> and a pair in use on a beaver mill, http://www.lathes.co.uk/beaver/
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[17:58:28] <Jymmm> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usinages.com%2Fthreads%2Fvisue-optique-de-marque-opl.14156%2F&edit-text=&act=url
[17:58:52] <Jymmm> archivist: english translation
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[18:02:56] <andypugh> archivist: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-126192.html
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[18:04:20] <andypugh> I thought that it looked ever so slightly familar.
[18:04:53] <andypugh> I was thinking that it might have escaped from a jig-borer
[18:05:57] <CaptHindsight> The History of Urbanization, 3700 BC - 2000 AD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKJYXujJ7sU
[18:13:02] <archivist> andypugh, the lathes page shows a couple mounted on a beaver mill
[18:14:04] <andypugh> archivist: Yes, when I saw that picture I remembered where I recognised it from.
[18:14:36] <archivist> now I have to find a scale or sell this bit
[18:14:46] <archivist> or something
[18:16:28] <andypugh> Does it image a scale?
[18:19:36] <archivist> it has a lamp position faces a scale and images it onto a screen then a pair of markers are moved right to left with the outer scale showing dimension
[18:20:15] <archivist> methinks a plain steel rule(or similar) would be usable with it
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[18:21:11] <andypugh> Or the vernier scale from a boring machine
[18:21:22] <andypugh> (well, the scale, not the vernier part)
[18:21:22] <archivist> the one on the french page is .01 (metric?), this one is .001 (inch?)
[18:21:49] <andypugh> The lathes.co.uk page says 0.0001"
[18:22:16] <archivist> there is a vernier so that might make the .0001
[18:23:03] <archivist> the french one is 0-100 on the outer, mine is 0-50
[18:24:12] <andypugh> lathes.co.uk says 0.0001” which thousandths sounds about right: tenths on the physical scale, hundredths of those tenths on the outer ring, tenths of those on the vernier.
[18:24:55] <andypugh> You might need a 20ths ruler then.
[18:25:22] <andypugh> I once had to use a metric traveling microscope with a 50ths scale.
[18:26:52] <archivist> LED torch and a steel rule worked to show a line
[18:26:57] <andypugh> Oooh that was annoying. If the vernier mark marked “2” was aligned, that was N.4mm as I recall.
[18:28:01] <andypugh> The details are fuzzy now, but you definitely had to double some digits and not others.
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[18:30:01] <archivist> my pitch measuring machine has a very silly set of markings, no way to remember it between uses
[18:30:21] <archivist> easier to add a readout
[18:32:09] <archivist> Myford and 125 thou to a rev, and Hobbymat MD65 had half the marking compared to the thread on the cross slide, often cocked up on that
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[18:43:15] <archivist> for those that cannot afford http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lambert-7500-CNC-Fine-Pitch-Gear-Hobbing-Machine-7axis-/252429473613 there is linuxcnc :)
[18:46:34] <yasnak> to make one thats useful you'll spend 7500$ in metal to make it rigid haha
[18:46:56] <yasnak> oh, 48,000 pounds. nevermind. dang
[18:46:58] <SpeedEvil> Well, it depends.
[18:47:16] <SpeedEvil> Speed and rigidity can be somewhat traded
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[19:32:41] <Jymmm> $17K USD CNC Center... http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1060-Small-type-8000rpm-5-spindles-tapping-drilling-and-milling-CNC-machine-center/32615293379.html?spm=2114.01010108.3.276.QwMp7p&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_3_10037_10017_507_10032,searchweb201603_7&btsid=cff7188b-f3f7-482c-a7f5-88c149cf5ec3
[19:33:02] <Jymmm> bah... http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1060-Small-type-8000rpm-5-spindles-tapping-drilling-and-milling-CNC-machine-center/32615293379.html
[19:34:26] <yasnak> or go buy a haas
[19:34:39] <yasnak> just make sure to get an extra desk for their service guy
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[19:45:52] <Jymmm> Isn't the cost of the extra desk part of the service contract?
[19:53:32] <yasnak> ^^
[19:53:47] <yasnak> It should be
[19:54:41] <yasnak> that and our older cincinnati. even look at it when its powered down? it breaks
[19:55:31] <yasnak> Used to a pure mori shop till dmg and mori shit the bed. Began switching to okuma and doosan the past few years.
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[20:33:30] <_methods> yeah okuma and doosan the way to go
[20:33:38] <_methods> good bang for the buck
[20:33:47] <_methods> well in doosan at least
[20:33:50] <_methods> you pay for an okuma
[20:34:34] <CaptHindsight> that ChinaCo mill would probably be fine for a year or two, that's the mindset behind its design
[20:35:30] <CaptHindsight> it's one tenth the price of a long life machine like a mori, okuma etc
[20:40:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mini-Milling-Machine-Z20005-vertical-mill-machine-mini-DIY-miller-milling-machine/32484560819.html?spm=2114.01010108.3.1.EK4w6E&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_5_10017_507,searchweb201603_1&btsid=22c31a76-883a-42f7-b106-54b2472eec6d
[20:41:02] <_methods> well that
[20:41:08] <_methods> doh
[20:41:13] <_methods> that's how doosan started
[20:41:17] <CaptHindsight> US $94.13 US $3.92 to United States via DHL
[20:41:20] <_methods> making castings and cloning okumas
[20:41:49] <CaptHindsight> I just paid $14 to send a 3lb package to Florida
[20:43:31] <CaptHindsight> GoodLuc Machines "cause you're gonna need it"
[20:43:46] <_methods> hahah
[20:47:31] <Deejay> gn8
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[20:50:02] <SpeedEvil> Now imagine if they put in rigorous QC, and had a US sales arm with warranty service for twice that
[20:50:17] <SpeedEvil> Oops
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[21:06:26] <XXCoder> Jymmm: thats ... not too bad?
[21:06:38] <XXCoder> though hrd to trust chinese made cnc machine lol
[21:07:01] <XXCoder> geez second one is tiny and cheao'
[21:07:19] <XXCoder> I wonder what its workspace is
[21:07:51] <XXCoder> 30 mm, 50 mm
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[21:08:17] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: that is tiny lol
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[21:09:25] <XXCoder> 20k rpm, not much improvement over mny machine lol
[21:11:25] <enleth> question is, what the chinese use themselves to make their good stuff
[21:12:19] <andypugh> maybe carefully-rebuilt versions of their own machines.
[21:12:45] <andypugh> Though I don’t know how you make a milling machine bigger than your milling machine :-)
[21:12:56] <XXCoder> possible in parts
[21:12:57] <enleth> I mean, they are perfectly capable of making quality product if you care to pay for it, so they must be able to make decent machinery
[21:13:03] <XXCoder> though cant make MUCH bigger
[21:13:19] <XXCoder> andypugh: I planned to make big router by my smaller router
[21:13:30] <XXCoder> though not for while lol
[21:14:24] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/60W-12000rpm-Electroplated-Mini-Metal-Gear-Milling-Machine-TZ10002MZP-Big-power-vertical-mill-machine-Electroplating-mill/32383662143.html geez
[21:14:31] <XXCoder> look at picture below
[21:14:41] <XXCoder> can be up to 8 in one, and one of em is jig saw
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[21:19:09] <XXCoder> this might be insane but...
[21:19:15] <XXCoder> using stepper as spindle? lol
[21:19:33] <XXCoder> servo is better I'm sure though lokl
[21:20:15] <andypugh> A stepper is just a many-pole brushless motor, and they are very cheap.
[21:23:09] <XXCoder> but wll it work as spindle? I kind of doubt it
[21:23:16] <pcw_home> step motors are quite inefficient so unless you need low speed torque and only 200W or so they dont seem like a good choice
[21:24:16] <XXCoder> what about servo
[21:24:41] <XXCoder> aliexpress sure loves routers.
[21:25:40] <pcw_home> a servo will work but unless you need precise motion the motor and control are more expensive than a induction motor and VFD
[21:26:12] <XXCoder> yea, doubted it would work. thanks
[21:27:12] <pcw_home> a servo motor would make things like blind hole rigid tapping better than a VFD
[21:27:37] <XXCoder> VFD?
[21:27:51] <pcw_home> (since the depth can be controlled precisely)
[21:28:06] <pcw_home> Variable Frequency Drive
[21:28:20] <XXCoder> interesting
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[21:29:06] <pcw_home> (the standard way you get variable speed from an induction motor)
[21:29:35] <pcw_home> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-2-2KW-3HP-10A-SPEED-CONTROL-/261057064113?hash=item3cc836acb1:g:9QEAAOSwLVZVsPgr
[21:29:42] <XXCoder> I want to create 43mm spindle for people who just want small one'
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[21:31:29] <XXCoder> 43mm'd be perfect for small machines
[21:31:51] <cpresser> why was 43mm choosen? 42 is a nicer number
[21:32:14] <XXCoder> 43 is "standard" for other ones.. and yes, 42 is answer to life, universe, everytjing
[21:33:11] <SpeedEvil> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__22409__Turnigy_TrackStar_1_8th_Sensored_Brushless_Motor_1900KV.html
[21:34:30] <XXCoder> interesting. how do i connect it to my tb6560 or swhat?
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[21:35:15] <SpeedEvil> What outputs does the TB6560 have?
[21:35:33] <XXCoder> hmm I do know it has spindle output but thats it. lemme look
[21:35:38] <SpeedEvil> Can it do programmable PWM?
[21:36:01] <SpeedEvil> If it can do 0.3-1.2ms/50hz PWM, then you're done - just connect to a RC ESC
[21:36:05] <SpeedEvil> (and a beefy PSU)
[21:36:34] <XXCoder> it has "spindle motor output"
[21:36:37] <XXCoder> pwm?
[21:36:50] <SpeedEvil> pulse width modulation
[21:37:01] <SpeedEvil> In what manner does it signal the speed requirements?
[21:37:05] <XXCoder> no, was asking if linuxcnc jardon for pwm
[21:37:09] <SpeedEvil> ha
[21:37:11] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:37:11] <XXCoder> still research
[21:37:15] <SpeedEvil> sorry - I'm not awake enough
[21:39:18] <XXCoder> http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/images/connection_diagram_4_axis_tb6560_cnc_stepper_motor_driver_controller_board.jpg
[21:39:29] <XXCoder> that is 4 axis version, mine is same but just 3
[21:41:20] <XXCoder> looks like would need something else, like using joystick port to use pins there
[21:41:39] <XXCoder> same time my pc has 2 parallel ports, could add spindle controller there?
[21:42:19] <XXCoder> http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4117&sid=305c35113123e7d0712b38c389891826 pin #9 is "spindle motor relay"
[21:42:24] <XXCoder> whatever that is.
[21:46:01] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: it has "spindle interface" and "relay" on my board
[21:46:04] <XXCoder> so I guess it is
[21:47:34] <XXCoder> lol! I now know why it seemed to be on 1/16 microstep when its set to 1/8. picture has much smaller (but correct) table
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[21:48:30] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: http://www.victortrucco.com/CNC/CorrecoesTB6560/3Axis_Manual.pdf
[21:48:37] <XXCoder> gonna go, mom wanna go store :P
[21:48:48] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes - what is the spindle interface though
[21:49:15] <XXCoder> very good question
[21:50:06] <XXCoder> man everyone gets old, I hope I can inpendently live on my own till I'm 200 years old. (aka all way till I die)
[21:50:19] <XXCoder> be back
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[22:04:04] <taloot> hello guys
[22:04:27] <taloot> benchmarking some skylake cpu
[22:04:38] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[22:04:40] <taloot> with latest ME firware engine
[22:05:08] -!- rhaven has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[22:05:14] <taloot> jessie + 386 rtai
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[22:06:36] <taloot> and im planing to build machine based on cherry trail to use bluetooth as pendat and wireless to access CRM
[22:09:45] <Magnifikus> so what is a typical cycle time if you run servos? i can only update the position cmd for them every 5ms
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[22:12:43] <taloot> u are using mesa?
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[22:17:34] <Magnifikus> nope i plan to use can open
[22:17:38] <Magnifikus> taloot,
[22:17:43] <Magnifikus> some custom stuff
[22:19:26] <taloot> yes i know it
[22:19:50] <taloot> but how many servo u are driving
[22:20:16] <Magnifikus> 3 its groschopp ones with integrated controller
[22:20:26] <Magnifikus> and it only allows sync every 5ms
[22:20:33] <Magnifikus> and interpolation without buffer
[22:21:10] <SpeedEvil> Magnifikus: yes, RC servos
[22:21:25] <Magnifikus> nah 50W brushless dc serveos ;)
[22:21:31] <andypugh> Normally the servo rate is 1mS
[22:21:32] <SpeedEvil> Magnifikus: however - it is commmon for the better class of ESC to have all sotrts of faster programmbel modes
[22:21:33] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:21:55] <SpeedEvil> Sorry, I should hold off on answers when asleep
[22:21:58] <andypugh> But most machines really don’t move far in 5mS
[22:22:17] <Magnifikus> got 3 of them for 100 bucks so i thought i give it a try
[22:22:25] <Magnifikus> if you think about the normal prices
[22:22:46] <Magnifikus> SpeedEvil, its not an rc motor
[22:22:59] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
[22:24:22] <Magnifikus> SpeedEvil, http://pasteboard.co/1MIlJBiU.png
[22:24:30] <Magnifikus> if you put this into your rc car, respect
[22:25:07] <Magnifikus> andypugh, yeah thought that, was worried about circles etc
[22:25:09] <SpeedEvil> I was just looking at a 6kW RC car motor
[22:25:22] <Magnifikus> they miss the resolver
[22:25:44] <SpeedEvil> I need to get my power-barrow built - gearing is fun
[22:25:52] <SpeedEvil> (motor is not for above barrow)
[22:26:32] <Magnifikus> my alternative is querying the encoder position over can/rs232 and driving the analog input as speed control
[22:27:14] <Magnifikus> bad thing is i need to do direction change also over rs232/can
[22:33:51] <taloot> guy regarding jessie
[22:34:05] <taloot> is there a precompiled linuxcnc
[22:34:19] <taloot> i have problem with skylake and jessie
[22:45:21] <Polymorphism> who here make lower
[22:45:30] <Polymorphism> pm me
[22:49:40] <Tom_itx> mmm more storms here
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[22:52:53] <Polymorphism> all sun here today I received 7 hours of the rays
[22:53:53] <tiwake> http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/seventy-two-killed-resisting-gun-confiscation-in-boston/162512
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[22:55:18] <Polymorphism> http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/nationalguard.asp
[22:55:48] <Polymorphism> total bs
[22:56:24] <Polymorphism> hahahahahahahahahah
[22:56:25] <Polymorphism> I see
[22:56:29] <Polymorphism> its decent, not funny though
[22:56:34] <Polymorphism> this gun grab is bs
[22:56:52] <Polymorphism> its half funny
[22:56:54] <Polymorphism> I suppose
[22:58:30] <Polymorphism> http://mavenbuilt.com/optics/
[22:58:38] <Polymorphism> if anyone needs bins, those are the best for the money
[22:58:40] <Polymorphism> the b2s
[23:01:36] <Polymorphism> crap someone give me a reason not to get them before I'm 1k poorer
[23:01:51] <Polymorphism> gotta run for a bit, going to take another crack at that ballscrew, hardware arrived as well. bbl
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[23:24:28] <andypugh> Magnifikus: It is axiomatic that at any point that an axis does a direction reversal is is moveing _very_ slowly.
[23:25:49] <Magnifikus> delta...
[23:26:44] <Magnifikus> if its stinks i will make 3 new motor mounts and go back to my 256µstep servos with fpga ^^
[23:26:59] <Magnifikus> eh steppers
[23:28:55] <andypugh> I don’t know what you mean by “delta”
[23:30:14] <Magnifikus> http://pasteboard.co/1MMEUPaZ.png
[23:31:21] <andypugh> Ah, right.
[23:31:32] <Magnifikus> so i got reversing in steady motions too
[23:32:26] <Magnifikus> my fear is circle interpolation getting edgy
[23:33:10] <andypugh> It’s still true with a delta. In any mechanical system motion is continous. (technically there is a continuity parameter which says on how many leveles of differentials it is continous, but I am now very vague on that stuff). Effectively this means that no joint will ever reverse without passing throiugh zero velocity.
[23:34:53] <Magnifikus> will try it, i can always rip the motors apart and get a new project on drivers and resolver stuff :)
[23:35:00] <Magnifikus> its meant to be finished
[23:35:58] <andypugh> I am a real fan of resolvers. I might be the only person in the world to have taken an absolute encoder out of a servo to fit a resolver. :-)
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