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[01:01:45] <XXCoder> bleh freecad cam still sucks hard
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[01:18:57] <Jymmm> Router bits, saw blades, planer/joiner knives
http://www.routerbitworld.com/CMT-s/936.htm
[01:19:18] <Jymmm> CMT are some GREAT router bits.
[01:19:45] <Jymmm> $1 Shipping too
[01:19:53] <XXCoder> orange heh
[01:20:10] <Jymmm> hmmm?
[01:21:01] <XXCoder> thats cmt orange tools
[01:21:18] <XXCoder> not saying bad or good or anything just found it funny
[01:23:38] <Jymmm> you find orange funny? What about blue?
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[01:31:53] <yasnak> hey guys
[01:32:19] <CaptHindsight> blue... bluehuehahauebluuuuuuueeeeehhhhhhuuuuhhhhhhhaaaaaahhhhh... stop just stop it, bluehhuuhhaaahhaaa
[01:32:49] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Oh go green yourself!
[01:33:41] <yasnak> so...anyone have a good place to find the ISO tool databases for different venders?
[01:34:05] <yasnak> Seems like they try to make standards and then they hide them by making you get each tool separately. So annoying.
[01:38:09] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/matsuura/20160417_130657.jpg
[01:39:24] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I see PANDUIT!!!!
[01:40:02] <Jymmm> skunkworks: new machine?
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[01:43:20] <XXCoder> bare circuit boards
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[01:59:45] <bobo_> BeachBumPete: Whats happening in the world of Pete ?
[02:00:16] <XXCoder> I cant find ANY cam that works in linux
[02:05:09] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Virtual Machine?
[02:05:23] <BeachBumPete> bobo_ aah not much man...been looking for our new house and trying to find a nice little car for my wife for a good price.
[02:05:36] <XXCoder> yeah that dont really work as needs gpu to work in virtualmachine and mine dont
[02:05:58] <Jymmm> XXCoder: No it doesn't
[02:06:10] <jdh> get her a little Tesla
[02:06:21] <Jymmm> you said CAM, not CAD
[02:06:23] <BeachBumPete> yeah I wish
[02:06:35] <XXCoder> hmm yea
[02:06:51] <XXCoder> BeachBumPete: too bad elio isnt ready yet
[02:07:05] <BeachBumPete> she actually likes the newer Scion XB
[02:07:53] <bobo_> Pete how about something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgZCk7tMOYc
[02:08:35] <BeachBumPete> meh we already had our kids too old for more ;)
[02:09:41] <Jymmm> BeachBumPete: They have pills for that =)
[02:09:59] <BeachBumPete> pills to make us younger?
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[02:11:05] <bobo_> pete get the kids a Pony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hUGL7IeqGE
[02:11:42] <BeachBumPete> bobo_ you sure are an odd fellow my friend..
[02:12:24] <Jymmm> BeachBumPete: Get her 2500 ponies...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-62ngz_cSkk
[02:13:50] <bobo_> Pete this warm weather is a hard transion for us northern folks . remember?
[02:14:42] <BeachBumPete> http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2823/361/32055180005_large.jpg more like this is what she wants
[02:15:35] <BeachBumPete> bobo_ yeah man it has been GORGEOUS here lately. It did rain some yesterday but today we went and had lunch at a beachside restaurant. Very very nice then we went walking on the beach :)
[02:16:01] <yasnak> Had to be at least 85 here today as well ;)
[02:16:14] <yasnak> Very nice lately, no rain in future it looks like too
[02:16:31] <BeachBumPete> where are you?
[02:16:36] <yasnak> sarasota
[02:16:43] <BeachBumPete> oh thats right..
[02:16:46] <yasnak> yes ;)
[02:21:12] <bobo_> Pete consider this as a better than house possibilty
[02:21:25] <bobo_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiEMSkVTHmQ
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[02:31:31] <unholycrab> Tom_itx: no underside
[02:31:36] <unholycrab> its a piece thats glued to the neck
[02:31:41] <unholycrab> so flat
[02:32:05] <unholycrab> anyway, i still have nothing, as far as a repeatable method
[02:32:17] <unholycrab> im trying to get this DXF produced by this fretfinder2d tool into rhino
[02:32:21] <unholycrab> and the units make no sense at all
[02:33:18] <unholycrab> i dont have any reason to believe that the DXF produced by the fretfinder2d site has any unit of measurement associated with it at all
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[02:44:00] <Tom_itx> i was just messin around
[02:44:43] <Tom_itx> you're likely gonna want a 3d model
[02:45:19] <unholycrab> i think i just figured out how to do it in aspire
[02:45:22] <Tom_itx> and rhino should be able to do that anyway
[02:45:22] <unholycrab> dope
[02:45:51] <unholycrab> i unchecked "scale cross sections with width" and it doesn't give me the undesireable taper
[02:46:30] <Tom_itx> it's a fairly simple thing for any 3d modeler
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[02:46:53] <unholycrab> yea
[02:47:05] <Tom_itx> however if you wanted a different section at each fret, catia could also do that
[02:47:11] <unholycrab> i think aspire tries to be fancy and abstract a lot of the drawing and shapes away from you
[02:47:33] <unholycrab> what its doing is creating a sort of compound radius
[02:47:39] <unholycrab> based on the radius i give it...
[02:47:44] <unholycrab> which isn't exactly what i want, but eh
[02:48:21] <unholycrab> when the neck gets more narrow, the radius decreases, like its squeezing the cylinder
[02:50:04] <Tom_itx> i could export this if you wanted it
[02:50:15] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure the dimensions are exact to what you want
[02:50:23] <unholycrab> i want to be able to create these from the DXF files that this website generates
[02:50:30] <unholycrab> so, starting with two lines, essentially
[02:50:36] <Tom_itx> dxf are 2d
[02:50:39] <Tom_itx> usually
[02:50:40] <unholycrab> yea exactly
[02:50:50] <unholycrab> http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/
[02:51:04] <Tom_itx> i guess if you could pull the 2 end profiles that might work
[02:51:08] <unholycrab> so im generating DXF files with this. it includes the profile of the fretboard, fret slots, etc
[02:51:17] <unholycrab> in aspire im creating a model from the two sides of the fretboard
[02:51:27] <unholycrab> and then adding toolpath routes with the other lines in the DXF
[02:53:39] <unholycrab> the cool thing about this is that i can use it to create toolpaths for microtonal guitars, just intonation guitars...
[02:54:00] <unholycrab> tuning systems with "broken frets"
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[03:55:25] <TheQYD> Hey, I'm using software stepping for one motor and I got 192 ipm as its max speed.
[03:56:21] <TheQYD> If I have four motors for a cnc machine, does that maximum speed get divided by four?
[04:04:50] <pink_vampire|2> unholycrab: nice website!
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[04:38:44] <pcw_home> TheQYD: no, the maximum speed is mostly unaffected by the number of axis
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[05:01:06] <pink_vampire|2> I did it!!!
[05:01:48] <pink_vampire|2> 4mm part, made from one of the hardest steel, on the G0704!!!
[05:02:36] <XXCoder> congats man
[05:02:38] <XXCoder> lady
[05:05:34] <pink_vampire|2> congats ?
[05:05:43] <XXCoder> short of congations
[05:05:46] <XXCoder> mispelled
[05:05:56] <XXCoder> congratulations
[05:08:49] <pink_vampire|2> awwwwwww
[05:09:09] <pink_vampire|2> I steel need to make the 3 holes on the sides..
[05:09:16] <pink_vampire|2> but it get closer..
[05:09:37] <XXCoder> in least you now has 2 flat sides to vice on or something
[05:09:39] <XXCoder> easier.
[05:10:00] <XXCoder> just need to figure somehow to ensure top surface is flat and 9 degrees to tool
[05:10:02] <XXCoder> er 90
[05:21:23] <pink_vampire|2> but the part is 3mm and the parallel is 3.18mm
[05:21:31] <pink_vampire|2> http://i.imgur.com/W1W8wk4.png
[05:21:57] <XXCoder> you need thinner parallel if thats even possible
[05:22:20] <pink_vampire|2> 1/16" parallel?
[05:22:27] <Crom> use a piece of .25mm wire to squish between the moveable jaw and the part?
[05:22:44] <XXCoder> Crom: she need a way to make sure top surface is flat
[05:22:58] <Crom> 3.18mm 1/8" parallel
[05:23:15] <Crom> use the .25mm wire to make the part wider than the parallel
[05:23:23] <XXCoder> hmm yea
[05:23:38] <XXCoder> its so small it can be match crown
[05:23:42] <XXCoder> hard to do stuff lol
[05:23:45] <Crom> piece of 14awg solid?
[05:24:03] <XXCoder> its metal is unknown actually but very hard
[05:24:13] <Crom> or 2 pieces of 14awg. one at top of part and one at bottom
[05:25:29] <Erant> Ugh. I had a ping in here a while back, but my scrollback missed it. If anyone still needs me...
[05:25:42] <pink_vampire|2> I think it's some sort of chrome vanadium.
[05:25:46] <XXCoder> that is why I added highlights script to my client
[05:25:48] <Crom> I've been playing with arduino and ws2812 leds today. just ordered 4ea 16 led rings to go inside 2prs of goggles for steam punk crap.
[05:25:56] <XXCoder> so I can see what dings was talking about
[05:26:07] <Erant> XXCoder: irssi does that, it's just that it went out of my backlog
[05:26:58] <Erant> (I live in the terminal, and I want my IRC client on a VPS, so irssi.)
[05:27:19] <pink_vampire|2> I'm going to drill it.
[05:27:32] <pink_vampire|2> hold your fingers for me :)
[05:28:36] <XXCoder> Erant: no it logs to seperate "channel"
[05:28:48] <XXCoder> it also says what channel it come from
[05:29:00] <Crom> why people use a uno is beyond me. a nano is 1/3 the price and the same exact board.
[05:31:49] <pink_vampire|2> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=arduino+shield&_sop=12
[05:31:53] <pink_vampire|2> Crom: ^
[05:37:02] <Crom> pink_vampire|2, there is a nano motherboard you can use with shields
[05:39:39] <pink_vampire|2> link
[05:40:04] <Crom> http://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Arduino-Nano-V3-0-Prototype-Shield-I-O-Extension-Board-Expansion-Module-DE-/172141501977?hash=item28146ede19:g:yOMAAOSwu1VW771P
[05:41:30] <Crom> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Useful-Device-for-Arduino-Nano-V3-0-with-ATMEGA328P-Module-Mini-Module-Board-FCH-/221965679816?hash=item33ae2f7cc8:g:M1AAAOSwcOFWakd-
[05:42:10] <pink_vampire|2> that nice!!
[05:43:36] <Crom> most of my stuff is wearables, so nanos are perfect.
[05:44:02] <Crom> nite nite
[05:52:25] <Jymmm> I dont get it, where did this arduino conversation ebgin at?
[05:52:55] <XXCoder> at magic
[05:53:47] <Jymmm> guess so
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[06:30:24] <Ralith> Crom: subject to availability, a C.H.I.P or pi zero make those look pretty incredibly overpriced
[06:30:49] <XXCoder> I have one CHiP
[06:31:01] <XXCoder> though not too sure what to do with one
[06:34:28] <Ralith> whatever you'd do with an arduino but better, presumably
[06:34:47] <XXCoder> it do have plenty of pinouts
[06:34:56] <XXCoder> enough to make cnc machine lol
[06:35:25] <evil_ren> arduino has nothing to do with CHIP or pi
[06:35:42] <evil_ren> one is a microcontroller dev board, the other two are small form factor PC
[06:36:03] <XXCoder> micro form factor
[06:36:22] <evil_ren> sematics, point is theyre not 8b microcontrollers
[06:37:02] <evil_ren> and development on atmel AVR, using arduino IDE or AVR studio, has nothing to do with embedded linux on a small pc
[06:37:20] <Ralith> indeed
[06:37:34] <Ralith> for example, it's much more expensive, and limits your IO options drastically
[06:37:45] <evil_ren> what, an arduino?
[06:38:09] <evil_ren> an AVR will likely kill pi and chip in terms of latency for simple tasks
[06:39:42] <evil_ren> and you dont need to buy an arduino to code on an avr
[06:39:55] <Ralith> notihng stopping you from writing bare metal on a pi or whatever in the unlikely event that you actually need to
[06:40:46] <evil_ren> http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkey1501
[06:40:52] <evil_ren> $8
[06:41:42] <Ralith> gosh, if they knock another $3 off they'll actually meet the price of an orders-of-magnitude more versatile system :P
[06:41:54] <Ralith> before shipping anyway
[06:42:02] <evil_ren> what system?
[06:42:45] <Ralith> AVRs are tidy little chips but I think they're going the way of TI calculators at this point
[06:43:13] <XXCoder> I will never get rid of my ti-84
[06:43:18] <evil_ren> exactly
[06:43:28] <evil_ren> 8b microcontrollers will probably never die
[06:43:44] <evil_ren> because a linux embedded system for simple control is a liability
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[06:44:08] <Ralith> again, you don't have to use linux if you don't want to...
[06:44:12] <evil_ren> why use a few tens of thousands of lines of code when maybe a dozen will do
[06:44:55] <evil_ren> and if youre not, the complexity of an AVR vs an ARM is significant
[06:51:19] <XXCoder> too bad linuxcnc isnt whole os by itself
[06:51:30] <XXCoder> but then its harder to port to all different machibes
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[06:51:46] <Deejay> moin
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[10:05:34] <pink_vampire> hi
[10:05:43] <pink_vampire> someone here?
[10:08:53] <XXCoder> nope
[10:09:06] <XXCoder> heh whats up
[10:12:25] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: was it successful?
[10:12:43] <pink_vampire> I can't clamp it.
[10:13:21] <XXCoder> darn
[10:19:01] <Deejay> "are you already sleeping?" "yes" ;)
[10:19:11] <Deejay> hi pink & XXCoder
[10:19:24] <pink_vampire> I never sleep
[10:19:29] <XXCoder> remember this, if anyone asks if you are god, answer yes
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[10:23:26] <XXCoder> nylon with 27000 rpm it says ipm has to be 4011 mm/m
[10:24:13] <XXCoder> thats actually for 10000 rpm, tool speed calulator cant go that high
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[11:47:40] <pink_vampire> I did it!!
[11:47:44] <pink_vampire> 3 holes!
[11:47:51] <pink_vampire> the part is finished!
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[11:59:24] * jthornton seems to think that probing for center of a part the tip diameter is not needed
[12:00:37] <Tom_itx> BP back up?
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[12:03:49] <jthornton> yea sorta, no USB so no touch screen
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[12:04:51] <Tom_itx> did you load from the iso?
[12:04:59] <Tom_itx> i thought a later iso fixed the USB thing
[12:05:15] <jthornton> I just swapped motherboards
[12:05:41] <jthornton> j1900 don't play nice with ubuntu 10.04
[12:06:12] <Tom_itx> i don't have touchscreen but i'm running one
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[12:10:55] <Tom_itx> Q1900M Pro3 asrock board with 10.04
[12:12:55] <jthornton> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157565&cm_re=Q1900M_Pro3_asrock-_-13-157-565-_-Product
[12:14:18] <Tom_itx> same as
[12:14:36] <jthornton> that the one your running?
[12:14:42] <Tom_itx> yes
[12:15:32] <Tom_itx> also have the itx version but i just pulled it for a faster one for my cad machine
[12:18:21] <jthornton> this one would fit my case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157497&cm_re=j1900-_-13-157-497-_-Product
[12:18:49] <jthornton> but it's pcie
[12:20:30] <jthornton> I wonder if the USB issue is just with the gigabyte j1900 mb's
[12:20:53] <Tom_itx> PCW would know
[12:20:58] <Tom_itx> probably
[12:29:30] <jthornton> I guess for $40 I can get a mini tower to fit the asrock mini atx board
[12:58:10] <pink_vampire> how complicated is to cut inconel 718?
[12:58:43] <pink_vampire> carbide tools can take it?
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[13:02:40] <_methods> lol
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[13:07:59] <pink_vampire> lol mean??
[13:08:12] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/wL3q5DV.png
[13:10:40] <_methods> http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/lol
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[13:14:23] <pink_vampire> I mean in regards to inconel..
[13:14:27] <pink_vampire> _methods: ^
[13:15:34] <pink_vampire> carbide tools can cut inconel 718??
[13:16:31] <_methods> read the tools data sheet
[13:17:44] <pink_vampire> in general..
[13:18:14] <_methods> in general yes
[13:19:18] <pink_vampire> that nice!.
[13:19:28] <pink_vampire> now I need to get some of it.
[13:19:48] <cradek> with a stiff machine and slow enough surface speed
[13:19:53] <_methods> i hope you don't plan on cutting it with your machine
[13:20:11] <pink_vampire> I hope to do it on my machine.
[13:20:16] <_methods> lol
[13:20:27] <_methods> hope being keyword
[13:20:40] <_methods> hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which one gets full faster
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[13:21:11] <pink_vampire> omg!
[13:21:34] <pink_vampire> why I can't cut it on the G0704??
[13:22:02] <_methods> the real question is why would you even use inconel
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[13:23:19] <pink_vampire> I want to make the hex part out of inconel.
[13:23:51] <_methods> why
[13:24:50] <pink_vampire> why not?
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[13:25:17] <cradek> "why not" is a bad reason to choose inconel :-)
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[13:25:22] <_methods> lol
[13:25:23] <cradek> it is very very hard to machine
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[13:25:27] <_methods> back to my original statement
[13:25:28] <_methods> of
[13:25:30] <_methods> lol
[13:26:53] <_methods> meh whatever some lessons can only be learned one way
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[13:28:44] <pink_vampire> I know it's hard to machine, and also to cut small parts it's also hard, and I like to make stuff complicated.
[13:29:02] <_methods> then by all means, go for it
[13:31:05] <jdh> it's a probe center?
[13:31:18] <_methods> it looks like it
[13:31:26] <FinboySlick> pink_vampire: If you really want it complicated, a diamond file, a vise and patience will get you there.
[13:31:54] <pink_vampire> jdh: yes
[13:32:18] <pink_vampire> but not what you think..
[13:34:11] <jdh> what am I thinking
[13:34:46] <_methods> are ducks buttholes really water tight?
[13:35:23] <pink_vampire> omg!! O_o
[13:36:32] <jdh> not even close!
[13:36:58] <_methods> damn
[13:37:02] <gregcnc> just how hot is this probe going to run that you want to use inconel
[13:37:04] <pink_vampire> wow carbide live a mark on glass soo easy!
[13:37:11] <_methods> my mind reading skills have been on the fritz lately
[13:38:41] <pink_vampire> ruby also can scratch from carbide?
[13:39:12] <_methods> are you asking if carbide can scratch a ruby?
[13:39:33] <pink_vampire> yes
[13:39:36] * JT-Shopp thinks it will take a week just to put all the computer mb's back where they came from
[13:40:08] <_methods> google is a great resource when stupid questions pop into your mind
[13:40:41] <pink_vampire> I'm google it but I don't get any answer
[13:40:49] <_methods> then you're doing it wrong
[13:40:52] <_methods> keep practicing
[13:41:02] <pink_vampire> :(
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[13:42:39] <_methods> jt-shoppe
[13:42:49] <_methods> ye olde shoppe
[13:43:34] <JT-Shop> lol
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[14:12:58] <enleth> have you seen VFDs that provide adjustment of the output voltage as well as frequency?
[14:13:21] <gregcnc> I think so
[14:13:39] <gregcnc> How much do you want to change it?
[14:15:16] <gregcnc> don't all VFD have a "motor rated voltage" setting
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[14:18:09] <_methods> http://controltrends.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/VFFundamentals.pdf
[14:18:25] <_methods> there is a voltage and frequency relationship i think from reading that
[14:20:29] <_methods> not sure if you can separately control the output voltage
[14:20:48] <_methods> probably would depend on the vfd
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[14:24:43] <gregcnc> I think as long as you set the parameters for the motor you can safely drive it.
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[14:25:33] <gregcnc> It's somewhat common to run a lower voltage motors at high voltage say 110V at 230V to make more power.
[14:26:17] <gregcnc> you get more power this way by extending the constant voltage range way past nameplate frequency
[14:27:06] <gregcnc> if you were to check motor voltage at rated frequency it would be at rated voltage.
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[14:27:56] <gregcnc> setting nameplate data tells the drive how much voltage to apply at what frequency, this is a motor characteristic
[14:31:40] <enleth> I was more interested in varying the voltage freely just like frequency
[14:31:47] <gregcnc> why
[14:31:51] <enleth> but that doesn't seem to be a feature
[14:33:10] <gregcnc> what are you trying to do by varying voltage?
[14:33:14] <jdh> what would be the point?
[14:34:11] <enleth> non-synchronous motors that need AC but aren't really affected by the frequency
[14:34:32] <gregcnc> use an SCR drive like KBC
[14:34:57] <gregcnc> universal motor?
[14:35:21] <enleth> yeah
[14:35:26] <gregcnc> feedt it DC
[14:35:28] <enleth> can't give it DC, doesn't like it
[14:35:41] <gregcnc> ?
[14:35:45] <gregcnc> what ahppens
[14:36:33] <enleth> couldn't be bothered to figure out why but it's having problems starting on DC
[14:36:50] <gregcnc> rated voltage and your DC voltage?
[14:38:47] <enleth> right now it's controlled by a series potentiometer right off the power line and needs a 40V or so kickstart to overcome mechanical resistance in the load
[14:38:52] <enleth> goes all the way up to 230V
[14:39:20] <gregcnc> sounds normal
[14:39:59] <enleth> I tried getting it running with 48V DC and didn't budge, just drew current
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[14:42:08] <gregcnc> wouldn't run if you spun it?
[14:44:33] <enleth> there's a two-stage screw reduction gearing on it that can't be disconnected easily, so spinning it by hand isn't really an option
[14:45:46] <enleth> I'll be taking that geartrain apart next week, it wasn't oiled properly for the last 40 years or so and might be a little gummed up
[14:46:19] <enleth> until then I'm testing under load
[14:47:08] <enleth> it's a very small motor, 100W or so, and the problem I'm trying to fix is the potentiometer wearing out, arcing and overheating - it needs to be rewound and cleaned pretty often and it's a PITA
[14:47:38] <gregcnc> VFD is not for this application
[14:47:46] <enleth> sure isn't
[14:48:51] <gregcnc> I ran a small universal grinding spindle in my mill for a while. at 60VDC it have very little torque
[14:49:20] <enleth> the next best thing that keeps it running on AC and doesn't involve electronics in an adjustable autotransformer in place of the potentiometer
[14:50:09] <jdh> or, replace motot/controller
[14:50:43] <gregcnc> www.ebay.com/itm//291733807178
[14:51:34] <JT-Shop> hmm if you have two computers on the lan with the same name you don't know which one you might get when you click on it
[14:51:54] <gregcnc> wow that one is ancient, but
http://www.kbelectronics.com/Variable_Speed_DC_Drives.html
[14:52:16] <enleth> jdh: the whole thing is actually antique and it's in a museum, the motor is a very visible part of the whole assembly, I'd have to get one that fits inside the original motor's enclosure
[14:53:41] <jdh> gut it and put a bldc in the housing
[14:54:02] <enleth> that's certainly possible, modern motors can be very compact and still pack a lot of power, but I'd prefer to avoid this unless it turns out upon disassembly that there are other problems with it
[14:54:42] <enleth> the housing isn't even fully enclosed so any modern parts wouldn't be allowed to look out of place
[14:55:12] <jdh> my motor problem of the day (month) is a 1/12th hp split phase motor that blows 5a fuses
[14:55:40] <enleth> oh, the one I have here draws about 2x the current it should
[14:56:19] <enleth> no idea why at the moment
[14:56:53] <gregcnc> I have a VFD on my Arboga that can't seem to keep sync with the motor. I'm not sure if the VFD or motor is dying
[14:57:36] <enleth> anyway I might just end up replacing the potentiometer with a very small autotransformer
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[14:58:52] <CaptHindsight> jdh: check for gremlins, and for what may cause shorts in the windings, not necessarily in that order
[14:59:07] <enleth> then go fancy and attach a servo at the other end of the shaft for automated speed control
[14:59:30] <enleth> (knob/autotransformer shaft of course)
[14:59:43] <gregcnc> stop letting visitors at the museum twist he knobs?
[14:59:47] <jdh> It runs fine for a few weeks, then blows the fuse
[15:00:11] <jdh> initial guess is starting too often
[15:02:56] <Erant> Any opinions on Prazi lathes? Apparently made in Eastern Germany
[15:03:03] <Erant> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/5543948226.html
[15:03:39] <_methods> i've heard of some that have really bad headstock castings that leak all the oil out
[15:03:45] <_methods> but i think it depends on the model
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[15:03:57] <_methods> i'd definitely research it
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[15:04:20] <_methods> oh
[15:04:25] <_methods> that's a little tiny one
[15:04:27] <_methods> no idea
[15:04:46] <_methods> looks like a standard HF mini lathe
[15:05:16] <CaptHindsight> jdh: if you really want to find out monitor the power for a few weeks
[15:05:51] <jdh> I really just want the maint guys to fix it
[15:06:43] <CaptHindsight> heh, I waiting the for HVAC guys to fix the brand new stinking high efficiency unit they just put in
[15:06:55] <Erant> _methods: Right, which is what I was looking for. Or at least, I want a small lathe for my workshop
[15:07:14] <CaptHindsight> if I didn't have the flu I'd fix it myself, but I'm still too weak to climb a ladder
[15:07:16] <_methods> yeah i don't know anything about that lathe so i'll shut up
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[15:08:14] <enleth> gregcnc: it's not the visitors, it's operated by a museum employee, but downtime required for the control box to cool down and all the maintenance overhead are starting to get unacceptable
[15:08:36] <enleth> gregcnc: it's a vintage 50s Carl Zeiss planetarium
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[15:10:06] <Erant> _methods: It has an interesting way. It's just a round bar with the top milled off.
[15:10:45] <gregcnc> reducing current draw by cleaning the assembly may improve life
[15:11:51] <enleth> just found the manual - it's Zeiss ZKP1
[15:12:00] <CaptHindsight> Erant: ball or roller bearings?
[15:13:01] <enleth> gregcnc: I assumed as much, so a full overhaul is already scheduled, the museum also contracted a microscope service company to clean and re-adjust all the optics at the same time
[15:13:19] <enleth> I
[15:13:21] <enleth> bleh
[15:14:01] <enleth> I'm doing the mechanical and electrical part, quite a bunch of stuff to fix, but this motor control circuit is the most important thing on the list
[15:14:49] <gregcnc> is this at kopernik?
[15:15:23] <enleth> nope, Museum of Technology and Industry
[15:16:49] <enleth> the whole place was completely neglected for the last 40 years, if there were such a thing as a museum of museums, there'd be a special place for this one in it
[15:17:26] <gregcnc> I was going to say your machine sound like it belongs in a museum for museums
[15:18:03] <gregcnc> so what changed now that they are keeping it up?
[15:18:08] <enleth> new management
[15:19:33] <enleth> last year they actually hired relatively young people to manage the place, and those guys are trying hard to fix stuff
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[15:20:42] <gregcnc> If I ever go back to visit I'll have to remember it
[15:22:53] <Erant> CaptHindsight: Not sure.
[15:23:01] <enleth> so the hackerspace I run offered to help, we signed a bunch of paperwork and assembled a team of volunteers
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[15:25:29] <enleth> the plan is that we fix a bunch of things that look good in press releases over the next 3-4 months so that the museum gets more visitors and more funding, then we get to play with a whole floor of vintage computers, most of which are most likely still operational
[15:26:12] <enleth> did I mention that this place has unmetered power?
[15:26:17] <gregcnc> sound like fun
[15:26:33] <CaptHindsight> enleth: where is the museum located?
[15:26:39] <enleth> there's a Cray T3E in there, probably undamaged and complete
[15:27:53] <enleth> CaptHindsight: Palace of Culture and Science, also known as the Stalin's Dick
[15:28:07] <enleth> still the highest building in the whole city
[15:28:26] <gregcnc> city being Warsaw
[15:28:31] <enleth> yeah
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[15:30:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.the-wanderlusters.com/europe/warsaw-stalins-penis/
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[15:30:58] <enleth> legend says that Stalin asked whether the city would like the Soviet Union to build a subway or a gargantuan skyscraper and the city officials said they prefer subway as it's more useful - so Stalin had the skyscraper built
[15:33:05] <_methods> lol
[15:33:06] <enleth> don't be fooled by the photographs, it looks deceptively small until you actually get close to it because the floors are *very* high and the windows are huge
[15:33:10] <_methods> epic troll
[15:33:35] <enleth> each floor is 4m high or so *inside*
[15:33:50] <enleth> and there are technical half-floors inbetween
[15:34:24] <FloppyDisk> Wow - amazing...
[15:34:39] <enleth> when you approach it, you start to realize that something's off about the proportions
[15:43:20] <JT-Shop> I just thought I had a working setup for the BP but the old Dell won't boot up when connected to the BP
[15:44:43] <gregcnc> wtf?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/father-stranger-danger-test-teenage-125028207.html
[15:46:49] <JT-Shop> now the other fuse in the power supply circuit blew
[15:49:12] <JT-Shop> maybe I need to put a 22 shell in there
[15:49:33] <gregcnc> fix the weakest link and find the next?
[15:50:43] <_methods> lol
[15:50:50] <_methods> 22 in the ole fuse box
[15:53:09] <enleth> JT-Shop: I remember seeing a "fuse selction chart" that listed typical amperage ratings of commonly available fasteners that also happen to fit fuse holders
[15:53:24] <enleth> and it wasn't meant to be a joke
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[15:55:05] <gregcnc> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BisFZ_JCUAEntNr.jpg:large
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[16:00:59] <enleth> the one I've seen was a lot less tongue-in-cheek, it was for real, but the actual amusement value from reading it was rather comparable
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[16:05:51] <archivist> a bit of 1/4" potentiometer shaft fits an old style 1" 1/4 fuse holder
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[16:31:48] <CaptHindsight> wants to raise $10K for CNC machines to make laptops
https://youtu.be/0cjMoZJlCUk?t=1m20s
[16:32:20] <CaptHindsight> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-world-s-first-fully-upgrade-able-laptop--2#/
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[16:35:05] <CaptHindsight> how many hours to machine a laptop enclosure with a ChinaCo router?
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[16:36:08] <archivist> mill a mould once, get then die cast
[16:37:44] <CaptHindsight> Apple got something like 10K semi custom mills to knock out enclosures
[16:38:25] <CaptHindsight> bu that was for small ipods
[16:40:09] <CaptHindsight> a good reusesable design would be to just use the older Thinkpad design and die cast the chassis
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[16:42:09] <CaptHindsight> they good thinkpad keyboards are still in production but it's become more difficult to find high res displays in the same form factor
[16:42:17] <CaptHindsight> they/the
[16:44:03] <enleth> CaptHindsight: thinkpad keyboards stopped being good after X220/T220, so they're no longer produced
[16:44:09] <enleth> *T420
[16:44:25] <CaptHindsight> enleth: you can still get the good old ones
[16:44:42] <enleth> new, factory packaged?
[16:44:47] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[16:45:18] <CaptHindsight> was 3 sources last year
[16:46:21] <CaptHindsight> T60 keyboards that everyone likes
[16:46:36] <enleth> ah, aftermarket ones, not genuine by Lenovo
[16:46:52] <enleth> I always liked how the dot on the power button is *always* off center on those
[16:47:10] <enleth> they can't even get a fucking sticker centered on a round button
[16:47:16] <CaptHindsight> Chicony FRU 39T7178 ALPS FRU 39T7118 NMB FRU 39T0958
[16:47:46] <enleth> or decal or whatever this is
[16:47:53] <CaptHindsight> http://openlunchbox.com/smf/index.php?topic=4.0
[16:48:32] <enleth> you can tell them from original IBM/Lenovo parts by looking at the key decals - they have this raised edge in the black area around the actual symbol's edge
[16:49:08] <enleth> the symbols are not moulded into the key, they are printed with what appears to be silk screen print
[16:49:24] <CaptHindsight> funny how most people don't care
[16:49:40] <enleth> they flake off much faster
[16:49:55] <enleth> and you can feel them stick out
[16:50:13] <CaptHindsight> just make them just affordable enough and they buy whatever...
[16:50:22] <enleth> ah, sure
[16:50:45] <enleth> I just wanted to point out the difference that makes them cheap
[16:51:37] <CaptHindsight> laptops are pretty quite market since most everyone use their smartphone to be tracked and download dancing baby videos
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[16:53:57] <enleth> gregcnc: I've redrawn the control circuit of this planetarium motor and the damn thing is weird
[16:54:06] <enleth> it's a series wound motor with a twist
[16:55:23] <enleth> at full speed, it's just a series universal motor fed with 230VAC
[16:55:48] <enleth> but the potentiometer is not wired in series with the whole thing
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[17:02:22] <gregcnc> that's odd
[17:03:25] <enleth> it's hard to describe, I'm drawing up another version of the schematic that I hope will be readable
[17:12:28] <enleth> gregcnc:
http://i.imgur.com/MkJQQ5z.jpg
[17:13:45] <enleth> the switches are mechanically coupled with the potentiometer - turning it in one direction or the other connects the left or right side of the split stator winding
[17:14:02] <gregcnc> to reverse it?
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[17:14:29] <enleth> yes
[17:15:25] <enleth> there are actually two identical wire-wound potentiometers on a shared bobbin, traversed by the same carbon brush, depending on direction
[17:15:48] <enleth> but it's equivalent to a single potentiometer and a set of connected switches
[17:16:33] <enleth> when the potentiometer is at full right (on my schematic), it's bypassed completely and it's a series field winding motor
[17:17:15] <enleth> when it's at full left, the switches are *both* disengaged anyway
[17:17:17] <CaptHindsight> you are much better off by posting accurate drawings vs trying to describe the circuit
[17:17:39] <enleth> in the middle - it's, well, a bit weird
[17:18:48] <enleth> CaptHindsight: well, I do have the original schematic:
http://i.imgur.com/UeiqZfW.jpg
[17:19:46] <enleth> but it's not terribly clear or easy to read
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[17:20:28] <enleth> I think it was meant to help during wiring and assembly, with the wires combined in buses and such
[17:22:53] <enleth> the potentiometer (Wi1) is in the middle, the funny left/off/right switch is inside that, and it actually is a conductive section of a drum sitting on the potentiometer shaft, with three brushes contacting the drum
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[17:24:44] <maxcnc> hi
[17:25:50] <gregcnc> the armature only sees voltage dropped across the pot
[17:26:58] <enleth> gregcnc: unless it's at full right, where the full resistance of the pot is connected in parallel with the rotor
[17:28:04] <gregcnc> right, this is why the DC didn't work well.
[17:28:25] <enleth> http://i.imgur.com/2kDV98U.jpg - this is the simplest possible form of this schematic, disregarding the split stator winding
[17:28:33] <enleth> it's only one half at a time anyway
[17:29:36] <gregcnc> I think you could use an SCR control, but connect the field output separately
[17:30:52] <enleth> I'm a bit worried by the possibility of audible harmonics introduced by chopping the sine wave
[17:31:10] <enleth> the thing is a little too noisy already
[17:31:48] <enleth> (that would have been a conern with a VFD too, had the motor been suitable for VFD control)
[17:32:54] <gregcnc> PWM DC drives can have switching frequencies in the inaudible range.
[17:33:21] <enleth> if I choose to rewire it as a DC series motor, yeah
[17:34:51] <enleth> problem with that is, the voltage it needs is rather high, higher than a typical DC supply can do
[17:35:06] <gregcnc> these drives run of mains
[17:35:57] <enleth> any examples of what I
[17:35:59] <enleth> bleh
[17:36:04] <enleth> of what I'm looking for?
[17:37:56] <gregcnc> these will be costly in 4Q variety
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231882201875
[17:38:19] <enleth> I mean, other than industrial servo drives, I've never seen a PWM DC drive capable of such a high output voltage
[17:38:38] <enleth> never needed one, actually
[17:38:42] <enleth> so never looked for one
[17:38:58] <enleth> oh damn, expensive indeed
[17:39:02] <gregcnc> I had one on a DC motor on a lathe for a while it was nice
[17:41:14] <enleth> I'll have to test it with several lab power supplies in series first anyway
[17:42:20] <enleth> there's no telling if, even when wired in series with no weird pots inbetween, this motor takes it well
[17:43:06] <enleth> I know enough about weirdo motors already to expect problems but not enough to rule them out for sure without testing
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[17:43:47] <gregcnc> the armature is not in series though
[17:45:34] <enleth> yeah. I'm trying to match this motor to a schematic of some kind of common motor type that has a name I can reference for further reading, but it kind of eludes me for this very reason.
[17:45:46] <enleth> it's not really a shunt winding motor either
[17:46:00] <enleth> but it's closer
[17:47:11] <gregcnc> it's a shunt type, the pot is added to control the armature voltage
[17:48:05] <enleth> OK, this makes sense
[17:48:23] <gregcnc> field has fixed voltage
[17:51:00] <maxcnc> Gn8
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[17:51:05] <enleth> gregcnc: my multimeter would disagree with this statement
[17:51:29] <gregcnc> how much does it vary?
[17:51:59] <skunkworks> is this a monarch?
[17:52:05] <gregcnc> more than the additional voltage drop of the pot would suggest?
[17:52:29] <enleth> gregcnc: measured stator and rotor voltages were identical
[17:53:01] <enleth> or at least very similar, couldn't get both at the same time
[17:53:06] <gregcnc> before or after the pot?
[17:53:10] <enleth> but no order of magnitude differences
[17:53:13] <enleth> right by the motor
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[17:54:09] <enleth> I measured between brush terminals, then between center tap and the end of either winding
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[17:55:53] <gregcnc> between the brush terminals it should vary with pot setting
[17:55:57] <enleth> it did
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[17:56:46] <gregcnc> that's what I woudl expect
[17:57:10] <enleth> and I got the same or a very similar reading for the field winding
[17:58:01] <enleth> as in, it also varied with the pot setting and was about 40V when the motor started
[17:58:22] <enleth> the meter was set to AC, no need to ask
[18:00:35] <CaptHindsight> the original drawing looks Waffen SS approved
[18:02:56] <enleth> I remember one EE lab session back at the uni, measuring parameters of two-port networks, when, after 2.5 hours of measurements, 15 minutes left until the end, a guy in one group suddenly screamed in horror
[18:03:03] <enleth> >FUCK! THE METER WAS SET TO DC!
[18:03:22] <gregcnc> Then are you sure there end of the pot is connected to the other brush?
[18:03:39] <enleth> they spent 2.5h noting down zeros and only realized there's something amiss by the very end
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[18:04:15] <enleth> gregcnc: I'm re-checking the schematic to be sure
[18:04:15] <CaptHindsight> the point was gathering data, not analysis
[18:05:29] <enleth> CaptHindsight: that's funny because it must have been their thinking exactly - they figured out that something's wrong with their long series of zero readings when they got to the analysis phase
[18:05:31] <gregcnc> like making a shifts worth of out of tolerance parts and sending them to inspection
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[18:07:07] <CaptHindsight> enleth: I closely reviewed the original schematic and did not once find the term "Schnitzelbank" and lost interest
[18:09:43] <_methods> giggleschitz
[18:10:17] <CaptHindsight> even that would have been acceptable
[18:11:49] <enleth> Schnitzelbank or not, I'd still assume I'm looking at a gas chamber control circuit if I saw it and didn't know for sure it's for a planetarium projector
[18:12:08] <CaptHindsight> the red background is nice
[18:14:44] <CaptHindsight> I would have never been able to study in Germany
[18:16:04] <CaptHindsight> maybe my family is unique but we made fun of things like that all the time
[18:16:21] <enleth> it's not
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[18:17:30] <CaptHindsight> my mom used to tell us Hitler jokes she would have been shot for repeating back then
[18:18:24] <enleth> it's the best way to prevent new Hitlers wannabes - makes sure they know all they're going to get is being the butt of very bad jokes
[18:19:08] <CaptHindsight> I bet the original drawing is accurate
[18:22:05] * JT-Shop ponders how to find the center between two points where either point could be - or +
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[18:22:23] <enleth> gregcnc: it's certainly possible that someone messed up the wiring, didn't trace the whole thing
[18:22:45] <CaptHindsight> enleth: not really, people are to dumb to make the connection, you take one and put a cowboy hat on him with a red beard and people won't notice
[18:22:55] <_methods> JT-Shop: does it matter?
[18:23:01] <enleth> but the schematic certailny shows that it is connected
[18:23:08] <_methods> wouldn't you just find the difference between the 2 points?
[18:23:20] <JT-Shop> trying to figure out the math
[18:24:51] <JT-Shop> I think this is my clue #1009=[[#1007+#1008]/2]
[18:25:11] <_methods> that looks legit
[18:25:38] <_methods> add the absolute values
[18:25:39] <JT-Shop> yep that the clue
[18:25:40] <_methods> then divide
[18:31:12] <JT-Shop> if they are both - then I loose the sign ie -1 and -2 the answer is -2
[18:31:23] <JT-Shop> -1.5
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[18:33:09] <JT-Shop> #1007=[#1003-#1004+[6.0/25.4]]
[18:33:16] <JT-Shop> #1008=[#1005-#1006+[6.0/25.4]]
[18:33:21] <JT-Shop> #1009=[[#1007+#1008]/2]
[18:35:14] <_methods> http://cs.selu.edu/~rbyrd/math/midpoint/
[18:37:01] <_methods> (x1+x2/2,y1+y2/2)
[18:38:15] <_methods> but i don't know you might only need the simple one
[18:38:28] <_methods> [x+y]/2
[18:41:54] <JT-Shop> yea a simple one is all I need
[18:41:54] <JT-Shop> yea that works, thanks
[18:41:54] <_methods> np
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[18:45:10] -!- Cromaglious_ [Cromaglious_!~Robi@74.111.193.205] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:45:18] <Cromaglious_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-x-40-Clausing-Colchester-Tool-Room-Lathe-Model-VS-12-600-Needs-TLC-/401105800988?hash=item5d63c4cf1c:g:aokAAOSwiYFXD5li
[18:45:22] <Cromaglious_> $2000
[18:45:30] <Cromaglious_> wish I had the money
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[18:50:54] <Guest63503> Hi, guys, I have a question: does anybody tried to use arm base board and its gpio with linux-cnc?
[18:50:54] <Guest63503> Quick googling shows some efforts with RPi and BBB, that's it?
[18:52:31] <jdh> check the machinekit stuff
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[19:00:43] <CaptHindsight> Guest63503: with an FPGA or just the ARM on it's own?
[19:01:31] <CaptHindsight> the machinekit stiff still doesn't support a realtime GUI on the ARM SOC
[19:01:46] <CaptHindsight> 3 years on
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[19:24:04] <FloppyDisk> Erant:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/5543948226.html First time I saw this...
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[19:34:01] <enleth> gregcnc: I've been through this schematic about 20 times by now and I'm pretty sure what it says is that wire 11 (which is AC live input) is connected to one side of the pot (which pot it is gets chosen by the direction switch) and wire 15, which goes to brush A. Brush B is connected to the pot's tap by wire 16. Center tap of the stator winding is connected to wire 12 which is AC neutral. Ends of stator w
[19:34:07] <enleth> indings are connected by wire 13 and 14 to the other side of the twin pots.
[19:34:38] <jdh> a pot?
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[19:35:04] <enleth> jdh: potentiometer
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[19:35:20] <andypugh> What does this link give?
[19:35:21] <andypugh> http://a360.co/1S5nK1G
[19:35:22] <enleth> gregcnc: unless the actual wiring is screwed up and deviates from the schematic, I'm pretty sure my simplified schematic is correct
[19:36:08] <enleth> andypugh: CAV_lid.ipt, most definitely lid of some kind
[19:36:25] <andypugh> Visible as a 3D model?
[19:36:32] <enleth> yes
[19:37:01] <andypugh> Wierd. The intended benficiary can’t see it.
[19:37:16] <andypugh> Do you have an A360 account?
[19:37:21] <enleth> no
[19:37:44] <jdh> could be browser. or they didn't hit continue in browser
[19:37:56] <enleth> (actually I do, but I'm not and have never been logged in on this OS)
[19:38:15] <andypugh> There’s a “continue”?
[19:38:30] <jdh> in my phone browser there is
[19:38:37] <enleth> I haven't seen any "continue" button, it took a while to load but did not require any manual action
[19:39:00] <FloppyDisk> I can see it too...
[19:39:18] <jdh> open app, download app, continue in browser
[19:39:37] <andypugh> Hmm, an app?
[19:40:05] <enleth> ah, they have a mobile viewer app
[19:40:12] <enleth> but it would only show on a phone, obviously
[19:40:27] <gregcnc> it came right up on my pc but i have fusion installed
[19:41:07] <jdh> pretty nice browser display
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[19:41:40] <andypugh> Yes, I am wondering if having Fusion is the thing
[19:42:46] <FloppyDisk> I don't have fusion, I was using chrome.
[19:43:15] <gregcnc> another pc no fusion, chrome worked too
[19:43:29] <FloppyDisk> It did take a 2nd or two to open, then I closed it (too impatient), re-opened it again to see if I could see it and it was there...
[19:44:38] <andypugh> OK, the chap is a restorer of tanks rather than a computer geek :-)
[19:45:20] <andypugh> Quite a major undertaking, interesting reading:
http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?50645-restoration-of-a-valentine-MK5-tank-started
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[19:47:15] <andypugh> Right! To the Workshop!
[19:48:21] <Guest63503> CaptHindsight: only arm
[19:49:37] <Guest63503> CaptHindsight: as far as I can tell now there should be not so many problems: rt kernel + custom driver for gpio + patch for linuxcnc to work with gpio
[19:50:11] <gregcnc> enleth, I'm no expert at schematics i can't make any sense of the pot. I would check voltages at the various point referenced to N to help figure it out.
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[19:52:10] <skunkworks__> andypugh, it opened in chrome and firefox on my ubuntu machine
[19:55:08] <gregcnc> i guess it just uses WebGL
[19:55:26] <gregcnc> http://autode.sk/1qUbjvl
[19:59:49] <enleth> gregcnc: will do when I haul more equipment in there. thanks for all the hints.
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[20:10:07] <CaptHindsight> Guest63503: well, GPIO in what way, turning ON/OFF some LED's every second or so or real time IO for STEPPING?
[20:11:01] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: don't worry that RED drawing is not a schematic
[20:11:30] <gregcnc> it was red? I thought my eyes were bleeding
[20:12:37] <CaptHindsight> I can see it causing that as well
[20:13:38] <CaptHindsight> heh, the ducechbag HVAC guys that installed the new HVAC unit accused me of flipping the 3phase power causing the compressor to run backwards
[20:13:51] <CaptHindsight> sounds plausible
[20:14:12] <CaptHindsight> people sabotage their own HVAC units all the time
[20:15:56] <CaptHindsight> plus everyone knows that 3 phase power is a still a scientific mystery
[20:19:30] <jdh> knowing which direction it will run first time is a mystery afaict
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[20:30:17] <alex4nder> #1 fact I've learned from welding: everything can be solved with an angle grinder
[20:36:10] <Deejay> grinder and paint - make you the welder you ain't!
[20:36:29] <Deejay> ;-)
[20:44:02] <CaptHindsight> jdh: too much information for electricians
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[20:44:19] <CaptHindsight> thats why we still see ladder logic
[20:44:43] <CaptHindsight> they can't be expected to handle anything more
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[20:46:58] <jdh> I like ladder
[20:47:31] <alex4nder> Deejay: in this case it's cutting stock for the mill, without a bandsaw
[20:47:32] <alex4nder> but yah
[20:47:33] <CaptHindsight> I have a nice RED schematic I can sell you :)
[20:47:55] <CaptHindsight> jdh: ^^
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[20:50:15] <jdh> yeah....
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[21:15:16] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:43:00] <CaptHindsight> anyone here use Venmo?
https://venmo.com/
[21:43:29] <CaptHindsight> I just heard about it through this story on stupidity
http://gawker.com/the-words-that-will-get-you-in-trouble-on-venmo-1738331672
[21:44:31] <CaptHindsight> ah it's actually by Paypal, getting dumberererrr
[21:48:32] <malcom2073> Better headline: "Person trying to trigger automated scanning system triggers automated scanning system. News agencies shocked!"
[21:54:16] <CaptHindsight> "Guberment Automated Scanning System Now Programmed by Elementary School Teachers"
[21:57:35] <CaptHindsight> has anyone found a country, island, planet, that hasn't been overrun by Idiocracy?
[21:59:06] <malcom2073> Mars. It's entirely populated by robots, with enough time delay to make stupid decisions slow enough to be tolerable
[21:59:53] <CaptHindsight> slow has an effect on tolerance?
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