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[00:09:34] <enleth> MrTrick: if it's restricted to either moving or rotating at a time, I'd assume it's a ball screw with and a rotating ball nut and a brake-like mechanism that can prevent the screw from turning relative to the arm part around it
[00:09:56] <enleth> *s/with and/with/
[00:11:02] <enleth> so if it's allowed to turn freely relative to the arm and, quite possibly, prevented from rotating relative to the ball nut - it rotates when the servo rotates the ball nut
[00:11:27] <enleth> when it's allowed to turn freely relative to the ball nut and prevented from turning relative tot the arm - it goes up and down
[00:12:32] <MrTrick> yep. However I'd say it's more likely universal-joint-like than a brake mechanism.
[00:12:47] <enleth> no idea if that's how it's done, but that's how I'd do it if the requirements did not include moving in Z and turning at the same time
[00:13:00] <enleth> if they did, it's going to be a little more complex
[00:13:06] <MrTrick> I want to build a light-duty end effector like that for a cartesian frame.
[00:13:36] <enleth> so feel free to use this idea if that restriction is OK for you
[00:13:55] <Sync> enleth: two nuts on the shaft
[00:14:16] <Sync> that way you can effectively lock it in place while still spinning
[00:14:30] <enleth> Sync: right
[00:14:32] <MrTrick> enleth: it probably won't work for me, to be honest.
[00:14:33] <Sync> and of course two servos
[00:14:49] <MrTrick> Sync: yes, but I think they've got to be one left, one right-threaded.
[00:14:58] <enleth> Sync: two if you need rotation and translation at the same time
[00:15:06] <Sync> yes, of course enleth
[00:15:20] <enleth> Sync: but two nuts, one servo and brake on one of the nuts would do if you don't, wouldn't they?
[00:15:29] <MrTrick> and I don't relish trying to machine a simultaneously left and right threaded rod, nor the nuts that will both fit on there.
[00:15:44] <Sync> you don't need both directions
[00:16:06] <MrTrick> no?
[00:16:12] <Sync> no
[00:16:22] <Sync> you just spin the upper one with the lower one
[00:16:28] <Sync> so you generate 0 torque on the screw
[00:17:16] <MrTrick> wait, if there's two nuts in the head, and a threaded shaft. ... and nothing is moving. What stops the shaft just unscrewing?
[00:17:28] <MrTrick> (what prevents/controls rotation?)
[00:18:24] <Sync> you probably need an encoder on the shaft too
[00:18:36] <Sync> so if you try to unscrew it, the control will try to compensate
[00:19:45] <MrTrick> what about a threaded rod with a flat? Then one servo is attached to a keyed 'nut' (with no thread) and the other is attached to a regular threaded nut?
[00:20:39] <enleth> MrTrick: you'd probably want that to be a ball screw, so that's not really an option, isn't it?
[00:20:47] <MrTrick> it seems fragile too
[00:20:57] <MrTrick> that's why I want to see what a proper mechanism does. ^_^
[00:22:36] <CaptHindsight> how much force in Z do you require?
[00:22:53] <CaptHindsight> how much rotation around z do you require?
[00:23:03] <CaptHindsight> what res?
[00:23:15] <enleth> http://i.imgur.com/sZ1t1DS.png - this photo shows something that looks like a single toothed belt
[00:23:26] <enleth> render actually, not a photo
[00:23:58] <MrTrick> enleth: where?
[00:24:23] <CaptHindsight> between the last two joints
[00:24:28] <enleth> on the floating part the Z axis rod would go through when it's assembled
[00:24:38] <enleth> there's one big cylinder that's probably a servo
[00:24:45] <enleth> another big cylinder that's probably a ball nut
[00:24:58] <MrTrick> CaptHindsight: not much force, need ~360 deg rotation? This is for very light duty 'pick up and put down elsewhere' operation for ~50g objects, I'm considering building a small gantry system.
[00:25:01] <enleth> and a black horizontal strip of something that is most likely a belt
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[00:25:48] <MrTrick> the render btw is from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97KX-j8Onu0
[00:25:55] <CaptHindsight> how fast does Z need to move?
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[00:27:38] <MrTrick> 50mm/s?
[00:28:43] <CaptHindsight> 50g loads, 50mm/s, and the other specs?
[00:29:06] <CaptHindsight> +/- 180 deg rotation
[00:29:13] <MrTrick> I've got a layout in mind where I can keep all the motors *off* the gantry, and still independently control the rotation of two pulleys in the gantry head. I'm hoping to link them to a mechanism to control the quill end's up/down and rotate.
[00:29:20] <CaptHindsight> not continuous
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[00:29:39] <CaptHindsight> what the range of travel z?
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[00:31:02] <MrTrick> ~200mm?
[00:31:26] <MrTrick> this is fairly conceptual, if that wasn't already fairly clear. ;-)
[00:32:04] <CaptHindsight> how it's bester done is based on what the requirements are
[00:32:22] <CaptHindsight> something with a 200mm travel will be different than 2m travel
[00:32:33] <CaptHindsight> and 50g load vs 50kg loads
[00:32:43] <CaptHindsight> 50mm/s vs 5m/s
[00:34:02] <MrTrick> that is true.
[00:35:10] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/wihvFXDqiTY?t=8s
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[00:35:54] <MrTrick> what I'm thinking of doing is a fabtotum-based corexy design with two EXTRA motors and extra belts coming into the head to control Z and A, but not sure on how best to design that last part of the mechanism.
[00:36:41] <MrTrick> the use case would be pick and place of game pieces and other tiny things.
[00:36:55] <MrTrick> and the design goal is to make all the moving parts as light as possible.
[00:38:03] <djdelorie> MrTrick: if the quill also has a keyway in it, one pulley could control the keyway and the other the thread. Turn them together, quill turns. Turn only the thread, it goes up/down
[00:38:28] <MrTrick> djdelorie: yeah, that's certainly one option.
[00:39:21] <MrTrick> I suppose as long as there's enough effort made to keep the shaft straight
[00:41:40] <MrTrick> (eg some bushings spaced far enough apart)
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[01:13:51] <gregcnc> www.ebay.com/itm/190650555854 this one has Z and all the motors in the base
[01:14:36] <gregcnc> concentric shafts and belt in the arms?
[01:17:02] <gregcnc> wouldn't have to be concentric
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[01:25:33] <Crom_> 101.6mm Focal Lens works Much Better in the K40
[01:28:25] <MrTrick> gregcnc: ooo shiny. ^_^ I believe the Z is the first joint in that one, not the last.
[01:28:57] <MrTrick> I love the idea of someone thinking they need a wafer robot though.
[01:29:17] <MrTrick> "I'll just set up a level 5 clean room in the den, put down a tarp or something... make my OWN chips!"
[01:31:56] <gregcnc> yes that's what it looks like. but the shaft and belt idea would translate to the ballscrew Z type, though more complex.
[01:31:59] <gregcnc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-JR2KDRnEY
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[01:41:09] <MrTrick> gregcnc: heh. $25K upfront for the robot, $10K to get it programmed initially, $10K/yr maintenance agreement, $60K/yr per each 5 robots for an engineer, extra callout fees and additional programming every time a new ingredient or recipe is added.
[01:41:33] <MrTrick> plus you still need to hire a minimum wage employee to stand there and do quality control.
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[04:09:56] <twister_> HI I am newbie here I am programmer. I was looking to build my own CNC router and 3D printer, But I am confused about linuxCNC and GRBL?
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[04:15:17] <SpeedEvil> what about them?
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[04:23:41] <twister_> which one is better is LinuxCNC or GRBL, I see both are popular
[04:24:07] <twister_> Thnaks for your reply @SpeedEvil
[04:25:01] <SpeedEvil> Linuxcnc is as I understand it a _lot_ more flexible.
[04:25:39] <SpeedEvil> What sort of machine are you hoping to make?
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[04:31:52] <twister_> especially router for carving aluminium and steel blocks, and 3D printer for prototyping
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[04:37:08] <CaptHindsight> with Linuxcnc you get support from people that are mechanical engineers, machinists, machine builders etc. It's was written and is supported by developers with decades of experience...
[04:38:04] <CaptHindsight> GRBL not so much...
[04:39:09] <CaptHindsight> they are still learning what they don't know
[04:40:10] <twister_> ok
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[04:40:50] <twister_> do we need extra hardware with linuxCNC such as stepper motor drivers etc.
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[04:41:09] <CaptHindsight> stepper motors need drivers no matter what software
[04:41:10] <twister_> Thanks CaptHindsight
[04:41:18] <twister_> ok
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[04:42:11] <twister_> in prototyping with linuxCNC I can use any driver mounted on breadboard right?
[04:42:21] <CaptHindsight> x86 PC with fully functional 3D gpu for GUI vs microcontroller that needs a PC for GUI
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[04:43:17] <CaptHindsight> you can use a LPT port to control stepper drivers and IO or you can get a PCIe or ethernet FPGA card
[04:43:34] <archivist> once you get going and need more axes linuxcnc wins
[04:43:46] <CaptHindsight> or a GUI
[04:43:56] <CaptHindsight> or live tooling
[04:43:58] <twister_> ok I have got laptop with i3 processor, But I am afraid It doenst have LTP
[04:44:13] <CaptHindsight> tool changer, rigid tapping, etc etc
[04:44:39] <CaptHindsight> an FPGA on the ethernet port is another option
[04:44:53] <twister_> Is there guide for seting up hardware, So it might be easy for me to sertup
[04:45:07] <twister_> ok
[04:45:21] <CaptHindsight> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=302
[04:46:00] <CaptHindsight> you can download the LiveCD and run the sims
[04:46:35] <twister_> ok
[04:46:42] <archivist> laptops dont usually work with linuxcnc
[04:47:18] <twister_> Ya I can build Image from source as I have knowhow of kernel and low level programming
[04:47:37] <CaptHindsight> try the LiveCD
[04:47:43] <twister_> Oh thats sad about laptop
[04:47:47] <twister_> ok
[04:47:52] <twister_> definitely
[04:48:11] <CaptHindsight> laptop ethernet has been working unless the jitter is worse than 1mS
[04:48:49] <twister_> ok
[04:48:58] <CaptHindsight> I think he's even had success at 500Hz for a servo loop with the 7i92
[04:49:24] <CaptHindsight> 2mS
[04:49:35] <twister_> ok
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[04:50:02] <twister_> I think linuxCNC works with LTP Port for communication with hardware board
[04:50:52] <CaptHindsight> LPT, but not on a laptop or a USB --> LPT adapter
[04:51:43] <SpeedEvil> Some laptops may have suitable LPTs on their replicators - probably older ones now though
[04:52:00] <SpeedEvil> But many of those won't have usabe jitter.
[04:52:10] <twister_> ok
[04:52:35] <twister_> So its better to have assembled PC
[04:53:14] <SpeedEvil> An old desktop can work well.
[04:53:23] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't need to be new or high performance
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[04:55:12] <Ralith> SpeedEvil: linuxcnc supports the mesa ethernet boards? I didn't realize!
[04:55:27] <Ralith> bit worrying to see it out of stock
[04:55:57] <CaptHindsight> Ralith: the disti in MS had/has them in stock
[04:56:19] <Ralith> MS?
[04:56:51] <Ralith> oh, Mississippi
[04:56:54] <CaptHindsight> http://mesaus.com/
[04:57:20] <CaptHindsight> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=63
[04:57:29] <CaptHindsight> and sorry I meant MO not MS
[04:58:17] <Ralith> kk
[05:02:51] <pink_vampire> I'm polish some stock material.
[05:02:58] <pink_vampire> and it's soo hard
[05:05:39] <SpeedEvil> pink_vampire: what sort
[05:06:22] <pink_vampire> i'm dong that by hand
[05:06:50] <pink_vampire> it's aluminum
[05:06:55] <SpeedEvil> I mean - what sort of stock
[05:06:59] <SpeedEvil> polishing methods vary
[05:09:58] <MrTrick> twister_: having used both software products...
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[05:10:25] <MrTrick> fine, don't hear me out. ^_^
[05:11:29] <MrTrick> I'm curious - for the parallel-port-impaired, what other options *does* linuxcnc support these days?
[05:13:21] <djdelorie> unless things have changed since I set up my machine, Mesa cards are the preferred alternative
[05:13:38] <djdelorie> mesanet.com
[05:19:12] <MrTrick> err, whut? I presume you don't mean the mesa card with the '386SX-compatible CPU'...
[05:20:35] <djdelorie> no, look under their "anything I/O fpga cards" for pci and pcie
[05:20:56] <djdelorie> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mesa_Cards
[05:23:11] <MrTrick> I guess at a basic level - (1) on the PC a software component 'runs' G-code, and parses it into low-level motion, (2) on the PC a software component generates 'step, step, stepstep, step' signals, (3) those signals are sent in a timely manner out of the PC, (4) a control box converts step signals into high-current electrical power for the motors.
[05:23:47] <djdelorie> linuxcnc is not limited to steppers, but sort of yes.
[05:24:42] <MrTrick> 1 and 2 are linuxcnc. 3 is traditionally a parallel port, and 4 is traditionally a bog-standard 'cnc controller' that just does amplification and basic electrical interfacing, no smarts.
[05:24:46] <djdelorie> the path planner turns gcode into a path that the machine is capable of, and the real-time core sends motion commands to the machine based on the HAL description
[05:25:30] <djdelorie> Mesa cards replace (3) and sometimes part of (4) for servos or steppers with feedback loops
[05:26:05] <djdelorie> in my machine, (3) is a parallel port and (4) is a microcontroller-based smart controller that runs each servo with step/direction pulses
[05:26:53] <djdelorie> linuxcnc can, for example, drive a servo with an analog amp, with feedback from a quadrature encoder, through the mesa cards, instead of steppers
[05:27:29] <djdelorie> It can also PWM a spindle control and read RPMs as an analog signal, etc.
[05:27:30] <MrTrick> Whereas for grbl, smoothieboard, et al; There is a graphical or text-based front-end, (or even just 'cat ~/mygcode > /dev/ttyS0'), then 1/2/3 are done in the embedded controller, and 4 is either on the same PCB or on per-axis modules nearby.
[05:27:59] <djdelorie> or they read from a sdcard, sure.
[05:28:16] <MrTrick> some do, but I think that's predominantly 3d printer boards.
[05:28:32] <djdelorie> linuxcnc's path planner and motion controller are way better than those little boards, but "way better" is not always needed.
[05:29:03] <MrTrick> for grbl I agree - there's only so much an 8-bit microcontroller can do. For some of the more advanced ones, I'm not so sure.
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[05:32:19] <djdelorie> well sure, it's not a solid line between small and big - there's lots of overlap. I'm just saying that linuxcnc is designed for the top end of complexity and performance,
[05:32:26] <djdelorie> and supports more than the "usual" interfaces and functionality
[05:32:50] <djdelorie> pretty much anything can drive a small cnc router
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[05:33:10] <Jymmm> even a chipmonk!
[05:33:29] <djdelorie> not just anything can drive a 6-axis cnc mill/lathe with multiple coolant types and a toolchanger
[05:34:01] <djdelorie> (maybe a really smart chipmunk :)
[05:34:40] <Jymmm> Nah, you've neer heard of Drunken Chipmonk Kung Fu style?
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[05:36:17] <MrTrick> djdelorie: I guess that despite having learned formal real-time operating system theory and scheduling, (and having linuxcnc powering my router) I still get the heebiejeebies thinking about a PC generating thousands of pulses per second.
[05:37:08] <djdelorie> Heh. Now you know how I feel about letting a tiny 8-bit micro run my 3d printer...
[05:37:56] <djdelorie> and on my rig, closer to tens or hundreds of thousands of pulses per second.
[05:38:05] <djdelorie> even faster with mesa cards
[05:38:31] <MrTrick> so how does a mesa card get told to generate the pulses then?
[05:39:08] <djdelorie> the real-time core gives it instructions over the pci bus
[05:39:36] <djdelorie> but mostly it's due to faster electronics, the parallel port is limited to 1 MHz signalling by hardware
[05:39:59] <MrTrick> I mean, it queues up a pulse train, or gets told "do X pulses each milliseconds until I say otherwise", or what?
[05:40:53] <MrTrick> and 8-bit micros at least one can sit down and do the very short amount of maths to prove it works. "ISR runs every 20 microseconds, proven." "Hardest computational case takes 40 nanoseconds, proven." "If G-code buffer is full, flow control kicks in, proven." etc.
[05:41:05] <djdelorie> I don't know the details
[05:41:25] <djdelorie> a real-time kernel has the same "my routine runs every 20 microseconds" promises
[05:41:45] <djdelorie> that's kinda the whole point of real time kernels :-)
[05:41:55] <MrSunshine> except when something else wants to do something stupid
[05:42:25] <MrSunshine> and you get a routine at 2000 microseconds insted :P
[05:42:29] <MrTrick> ah, but an ISR is done in hardware, and you can easily show that nothing (like updating a graphical interface) can get in its way.
[05:42:30] <djdelorie> if the stupid part isn't in the real time task, it's delegated to the "user kernel" and runs at a lower priority
[05:43:06] <MrSunshine> djdelorie: interrupts from hardware etc
[05:43:11] <djdelorie> linuxcnc comes with a way to test for non-realtime interrupts and tells you what the best promise it can make is
[05:43:48] <djdelorie> the archives are full of stories about which hardware has well-behaved ISRs and which don't
[05:44:00] <MrTrick> heh, fair enough.
[05:44:28] <MrTrick> I always wondered about building single-axis controllers.
[05:45:00] <djdelorie> ?
[05:45:06] <MrTrick> Where there might be a stream of G-code onto a bus, and each actuator is responsible for listening to it.
[05:45:13] <MrTrick> eg one X, one Y, one Z.
[05:45:17] <djdelorie> ah
[05:45:28] <djdelorie> that doesn't work because they need to be synchronized
[05:45:33] <MrSunshine> but they need to interact with eachother
[05:45:35] <MrTrick> they can be.
[05:45:39] <djdelorie> else, for example, X might finish first because Z was limited by acceleration
[05:45:56] <djdelorie> they need to know in advance what the limitations of the other axes are
[05:46:04] <djdelorie> which is what a path planner does
[05:46:19] <MrTrick> wait that's right, I'd considered there to be an offline component that handled the actual motion planning part, and split it into each axis.
[05:46:49] <MrTrick> there's not reason that motion control needs to be realtime.
[05:47:12] <djdelorie> if you had a HAL component for it, I bet linuxcnc could do it. The RT portion is just there to make sure everything happens at the right time
[05:47:16] <MrTrick> Does linuxcnc have low-level motion primitives?
[05:47:46] <djdelorie> I haven't looked but I would assume so based on what kinds of hardware it can support
[05:47:51] <djdelorie> the hal layer is pretty complex
[05:47:55] <MrTrick> I'm sure.
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[05:53:02] <djdelorie> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HardwareDesign#HAL_s_timing_model
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[06:03:51] <twos> Is mach 3 compatible FPGA's are useful for linuxCNC?
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[06:05:44] <djdelorie> since linuxcnc isn't mach3, the question is whether they're linuxcnc compatible FPGA's
[06:05:52] <djdelorie> and that's up to the FPGA board maker
[06:06:14] <twos> OK
[06:07:07] <djdelorie> mach3 is just another program, not a standard, so being mach3 compatible doesn't mean anything to anyone else
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[06:40:43] <pink_vampire> I gave up on the polish :(
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[06:41:38] <SpeedEvil> pink_vampire: what were you trying to polish with
[06:41:58] <pink_vampire> just to remove th cutting marks..
[06:42:01] <pink_vampire> the
[06:43:06] <pink_vampire> maybe to brush it?
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[06:44:07] <SpeedEvil> you start out with sandpaper rough enough to make scratches of the same depth as the imperfections.
[06:44:41] <SpeedEvil> then once the scratches are even, move up a couple of grits at a time till the scratches are even, till you get to the point you can switch to polish
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[06:49:01] <pink_vampire> i have wire brush
[06:49:41] <pink_vampire> but it's eat the material like crazy
[06:50:56] <pink_vampire> look like that
[06:50:57] <pink_vampire> http://www.hardwarestore.com/wire-brush-paint-stripper-646036.aspx
[06:53:05] <SpeedEvil> Wire brushes don't remove large-scale variations on parts very well because the individual wires conform too well to the surface
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[06:57:28] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: so how can I make brushed aluminum?
[06:58:01] <SpeedEvil> What do you actually want to end up with, and what are you starting out with
[06:59:24] <pink_vampire> now I have the circles pattern from the end mill
[06:59:31] <SpeedEvil> If you're trying to make it flat, then a brush is not what you want.
[07:00:03] <pink_vampire> I want to get it nicer.
[07:00:04] <SpeedEvil> If you want to remove the ripples, then you want to remove those, for example with a sanding block - and then brush on the required texture
[07:00:55] <pink_vampire> there is no way to do it without sanding by hand?
[07:01:38] <SpeedEvil> Sure - belt sander, disk sander.
[07:02:34] <pink_vampire> but I need to use my hands to push the part on them..
[07:02:57] <pink_vampire> I mean cnc solution...
[07:03:38] <pink_vampire> maybe with something like that?
[07:03:40] <pink_vampire> https://www.zoro.com/dewalt-flap-wheel-34-in-d-80-grit-dafe1p0810/i/G7417173/?gdffi=047ada998cf641fa93e55ae8579df863&gdfms=7256FB2F3811424D9E4416A059D2631A&gclid=CPjPqOWe1ssCFRFZhgodb5kCcA&gclsrc=aw.ds
[07:05:30] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: ^
[07:06:51] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW6H_6DpBMA
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[07:12:01] <SpeedEvil> yes, a flap-wheel works
[07:12:29] <SpeedEvil> what is the part you're trying to process?
[07:13:18] <archivist> file->grades of paper->final polish
[07:14:10] <archivist> improper use of mechanical methods can round the corners
[07:16:27] <archivist> pink_vampire, wet and dry paper going through the grades coarse to fine only
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=cast+iron+pendulum
[07:17:20] <pink_vampire> I don't need to get a mirror finish
[07:17:43] <pink_vampire> waste of time and nails
[07:18:23] <SpeedEvil> then you stop at the point where you're happy
[07:18:29] <pink_vampire> any recommendation for flap wheel?
[07:19:14] <archivist> flap wheels are pretty useless in comparison to the hard way
[07:19:42] <SpeedEvil> several flap wheels in a die grinder can work well
[07:21:45] <pink_vampire> what is a die grinder?
[07:21:55] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/o7YVEJq.png
[07:22:11] <pink_vampire> this is 220 sand paper.
[07:22:23] <pink_vampire> after 30 min of sanding.
[07:23:05] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: ^
[07:23:09] <pink_vampire> archivist: ^
[07:25:28] <archivist> a couple of minutes at 100, a few at 220, a few at 400
[07:26:04] <archivist> much faster and better results to go through the grades
[07:26:44] <pink_vampire> but i have 6 parts to make.
[07:26:57] <pink_vampire> I want the cnc to do the finish.
[07:27:26] <SpeedEvil> have you experimented with steps and depths of cuts to see the best finish you can get?
[07:27:32] <SpeedEvil> And made sure the tool is really sharp?
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[07:27:55] <SpeedEvil> Also, as archivist recommended - you'd start with a file.
[07:27:57] <pink_vampire> yes,
[07:28:20] <pink_vampire> I know how to do it by hand..
[07:28:48] <SpeedEvil> If you're doing it with 220 for 30 minutes, then you don't.
[07:28:49] <pink_vampire> all I'm asking if is there a way to do it automatic, with the cnc.
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[07:29:10] <pink_vampire> i don't have the other grits right now.
[07:29:52] <SpeedEvil> A flap wheel may in principle work - but you can't simply mount that on a CNC as it won't go fast enough typically, and the angles are wrong
[07:30:01] <pink_vampire> but I know that step the grits will make it faster, but I'm still have to do it by hand, so it's not what I'm looking for.
[07:30:51] <pink_vampire> how fast it's need to go?
[07:31:04] <archivist> you cannot avoid all hand work
[07:32:01] <archivist> flap wheels are a high speed cleaning/deburing tool,
[07:33:25] <pink_vampire> wht is high speed?
[07:33:38] <pink_vampire> 1000 rpm? 20 K
[07:33:39] <pink_vampire> ?
[07:34:56] <archivist> depends on diameter
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[07:36:49] <toastyde2th> that's what she said
[07:36:55] <pink_vampire> for 1000 rpm what diameter I need?
[07:37:07] <evil_ren> very small
[07:38:09] <archivist> a 2-3 inch one would work at 3000 in a hand drill
[07:39:15] <pink_vampire> the wie brush that I have is 4"
[07:39:21] <pink_vampire> wire*
[07:39:57] <archivist> wire brushes also run as a high speed
[07:40:23] <archivist> I use twisted knot brushes on my angle grinder
[07:43:02] <pink_vampire> http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/02/88/74/70/0002887470116_500X500.jpg
[07:43:33] <pink_vampire> archivist: that exactly what I have ^
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[07:50:05] <archivist> they are only for cleaning really, I used them after a scraper or for awkward shapes
[07:51:12] <archivist> mostly wire brush work
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=new+wonder+filing+machine
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[08:01:07] <Deejay> moin
[08:06:36] <pink_vampire> i see..
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[08:07:09] <pink_vampire> so I will get a flap wheel and hope it will save my hands.
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[08:07:34] <SpeedEvil> http://i.imgur.com/GiD7OcH.jpg
[08:08:32] <archivist> flap wheels clog up, useless
[08:09:26] <pink_vampire> I can't work like that :(
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[08:10:24] <pink_vampire> I have a cnc, the cnc should to the job
[08:12:49] <archivist> flap wheels are not for use in a cnc
[08:13:13] <archivist> the finish is a milled finish, one sees the lines
[08:14:33] <archivist> you have unrealistic expectations
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[08:16:49] <pink_vampire> I know.
[08:17:32] <pink_vampire> but that what drive me all the time..
[08:18:51] <pink_vampire> hate to hear good music without good speakers.
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[09:14:23] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: your new speaker
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aP_Z3s8Zas0/hqdefault.jpg
[09:15:03] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP_Z3s8Zas0
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[09:18:30] <XXCoder> jeeeeeez
[09:18:38] <XXCoder> someone made a real one.
http://www.damngeeky.com/2012/10/08/5955/5955.html#more-5955
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[09:30:10] <pink_vampire> I'm thinking about streaming my machine
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[09:31:31] <pink_vampire|2> hi
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[10:50:46] <SpeedEvil> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/xindex.php,qaction=dlattach,3Btopic=39766.0,3Battach=1106031,3Bimage.pagespeed.ic.3HsZcxckvq.jpg - repairing after punching a 3m hole through 18mm steel with a rocket.
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[12:31:08] <jthornton> went and rescued the spyder yesterday... 1,162 miles in 18.5 hours
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[12:36:06] <Sync> that's not too bad
[12:37:22] <archivist> erm fuel cost v value
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[12:51:56] <OdinYggd> That sounds like a road trip to me.
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[13:02:42] <witnit> Anyone well versed in turning 1018?
[13:07:23] <OdinYggd> Nothin to it. 1018 is just a mild steel
[13:07:25] <witnit> Also thread forming or cutting preferred with it?
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[13:24:39] <gregcnc> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/olo3d/olo-the-first-ever-smartphone-3d-printer
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[13:28:31] <archivist> buuuut I dont have a smart phone!
[13:29:45] <Jymmm> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/the-first-ever-dumbphone-3d-printer
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[13:33:57] <_methods> haha
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[13:35:46] <archivist> how many prints will be ruined by an incomming call,adverts,screen saver,battery going flat
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[13:36:25] <archivist> effin stupid
[13:42:34] <Sync> they kinda forgot the Y
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[13:55:51] <cradek> huh, if that resin isn't super expensive, it might be an important breakthrough
[13:57:06] <cradek> rigging a projector or whatever in a dark area (that doesn't run on batteries and doesn't show advertising, c'mon) wouldn't be very hard
[14:00:24] <cradek> on the other hand, resin that hardens by the light of a cell phone screen being in translucent bottles is very suspicious to me
[14:02:07] <_methods> it's on kickstarter it must be legit
[14:02:09] <_methods> haha
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[14:08:48] <cradek> > Cloud-based software: super-easy to access.
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[14:10:42] <archivist> cloud based latency and screw ups
[14:12:05] <cradek> I can see each color of resin in the bottles as described, so the bottles must let through most/all of visible light. does a cell phone display have significant non-visible output?
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[14:16:33] <archivist> dunno but I can imaging the light between different phone makers varying enough to cause a problem
[14:17:31] <OdinYggd> Realtime and cloud do not get along
[14:17:42] <OdinYggd> But you could use a realtime controller at the machine with cloud-based software loading
[14:17:46] <OdinYggd> That would work okay I think
[14:17:57] <cradek> except for all the problems of the cloud, sure
[14:17:57] <OdinYggd> Of course, who pays for the cloud's operating costs?
[14:18:02] <OdinYggd> People don't think about that one
[14:18:28] <OdinYggd> I'm no fan of cloud stuff, because it is often unsuitable for the application and horrendously insecure
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[14:21:03] <_methods> olo is a 3democracy
[14:22:53] <_methods> ahhhhhh
[14:22:54] <_methods> smart bed
[14:22:56] <_methods> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/684490728/balluga-the-worlds-smartest-bed?token=9c519059
[14:23:01] <OdinYggd> either way gregcnc, Pi > Smartphone for this application
[14:23:36] <OdinYggd> Cause the Pi can be part of the machine lashup and will sit there tending the machine while still allowing an app on a phone to send it user inputs
[14:24:43] <archivist> _methods, is that for whale size sleepers?
[14:25:47] <_methods> $1200 air mattress
[14:26:03] <_methods> for a single lol
[14:28:51] <OdinYggd> Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should.
[14:29:08] <OdinYggd> a lot of this 'smart' stuff being made nowdays straight up scares the hell out of me
[14:29:25] <OdinYggd> What happens when someone else gets control and you don't know about it
[14:29:35] <OdinYggd> Which we know the governments and corporates do as often as practical
[14:29:40] <_methods> yeah i don't want someone hackin my smart cup
[14:29:47] <_methods> i could drink so much water i could die
[14:29:51] <OdinYggd> Turn your ice tea into boiled coffee
[14:30:15] <OdinYggd> Or make your toaster turn on with nothing in it so that it burns the house down
[14:30:19] <_methods> or they could turn my smart cup off so i wouldn't know when to drink
[14:30:21] <OdinYggd> And you die in a freak accident
[14:30:37] <archivist> shake your drink instead or stirring it
[14:30:37] <OdinYggd> which probably has already been happening with some of these fly by wire cars
[14:30:40] <SpeedEvil> _methods: I have been trying to work out how to cheaply do a thousand or so zone pnuematic bed cheaply
[14:30:56] <_methods> SpeedEvil: looks like someone beat you to it
[14:31:05] <_methods> kinda
[14:31:06] <OdinYggd> Why.
[14:31:10] <OdinYggd> People are so spoiled.
[14:31:20] <OdinYggd> when I was a boy I'd sleep in the haystack
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[14:31:33] <OdinYggd> Was more comfy than the creaking coil-spring mess of a mattress
[14:31:37] <SpeedEvil> OdinYggd: but the sheep kept you warm and provided entertainment.
[14:31:45] <_methods> hahahha
[14:31:50] <OdinYggd> What sheep. We had cows.
[14:32:35] <SpeedEvil> calves
[14:32:43] <__rob> should all the splits in an er collet look totally even when tightened
[14:33:16] <__rob> put a 9.5mm bit in a 10-9 collet, looking at it there are uneven divisions in the collet
[14:33:19] <__rob> maybe over tight
[14:33:26] <__rob> ?
[14:33:36] <_methods> i woudln't worry unless the bit is running out
[14:33:36] <archivist> or crap or cracked
[14:34:28] <_methods> some collet nuts are the kind where the collet needs to snap in too
[14:34:41] <__rob> http://snag.gy/sDn2m.jpg
[14:34:43] <_methods> if you don't snap the collet in right it can clamp crooked
[14:34:50] <__rob> yea, the collet is snapped in
[14:35:08] <__rob> not run the end mill to check runout
[14:35:12] <__rob> yet
[14:35:19] <__rob> just looks a bit odd
[14:35:21] <_methods> i'd try that first before i started freaking out
[14:35:40] <_methods> but some run out in collet holders is not uncommon
[14:35:45] <_methods> that's what cutter comp is for
[14:36:07] <__rob> yup, just not wanting the end mill at an angle wrt to the spindle
[14:36:40] <__rob> as long as the runout is even along the length
[14:39:02] <gregcnc> I would guess the nut sliding on the collet causes that
[14:40:49] <__rob> I'll test it out
[14:40:57] <__rob> just wanting to check that it wasn't obviously wrong
[14:41:00] <__rob> from that picture
[14:41:20] <__rob> shame they dont do metric 1/2 mm sizes
[14:41:33] <__rob> would feel much better if it was closer to the end mill diameter
[14:41:53] <gregcnc> depends on who's collets you buy
[14:41:56] <_methods> if you're that worried about it get shrink fit tooling
[14:42:48] <Sync> that's why ER collets are double slotted
[14:42:55] <Sync> so you can actually clamp off size tools
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[14:45:21] <__rob> yea, I know its meant to be right, just looks so wrong that pic
[14:45:48] <__rob> theoretically if the collet was perfect, you'd expect perfect divisions
[14:45:51] <__rob> for a centred tool
[14:45:54] <__rob> I would anwyay
[14:45:58] <gregcnc> To be sure it's not ideal, the friction of the nut is twisting the collet
[14:46:07] <gregcnc> is it enough to be a problem?
[14:46:19] <Sync> that is why there are nuts with the cone sliding
[14:46:35] <Sync> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/imagecache/6f16a470-0deb-494d-8537-a1b700ea98ec_180x113.jpg
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[14:49:02] <cradek> archivist: here's a teardown of an apparently real and working photoresin-based printer:
http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4641
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[14:49:49] <cradek> in one photo you can see the resin is packaged in a more likely way
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[14:53:18] <_methods> those things actually look like they're pretty well made
[14:53:30] <gregcnc> I was going to say that for marketing the bottles are transparent, delivered product who knows.
[14:54:16] <cradek> printer $3500 and resin $150/l
[14:54:41] <gregcnc> the olo resin is also $150/l
[14:58:30] <gregcnc> olo will be one time use or run it at night, it took 4 hours to print something
[14:58:33] <CaptHindsight> they are built like toys
[14:58:48] <_methods> that formlabs?
[14:58:54] <gregcnc> it's not a toy?
[14:59:48] <CaptHindsight> I've been selling resin for visible spectrum for years
[15:00:26] <CaptHindsight> gormlans got cutewit the firmware as well to lockout 3 rd party resin vendors
[15:00:50] <CaptHindsight> you have to pay extra to control the galvos the way you want
[15:01:00] <CaptHindsight> plus glavos are slow
[15:01:16] <_methods> yeah i have no idea i was just looking at the basic construction of it
[15:01:35] <CaptHindsight> the print volume they offer is covered much more duikly and accurately with a LCD or DLP
[15:01:40] <_methods> whatever business treachery they have included inside, i'm totally unaware of
[15:01:50] <CaptHindsight> duickly/quickly
[15:02:05] <_methods> those things have no appeal to me at all
[15:02:12] <_methods> i don't need any plastic trinkets
[15:02:46] <CaptHindsight> the problem witb the Form1, OLO and similar SLA printers is that are useful for a very limtied range of resins
[15:03:07] <CaptHindsight> they basically turn a liquid into a solid and that is it
[15:03:33] <__rob> what else would you want from a resin printer though ?
[15:03:42] <CaptHindsight> it's for applications where there is no concern about the end product being anything more than solid
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[15:04:14] <__rob> isn't that all 3d printers?
[15:04:27] <__rob> you could still print a lattice inside that no ?
[15:04:34] <gregcnc> and so far that seems to be all the home user thinks it needs
[15:04:38] <CaptHindsight> no. just toys
[15:05:35] <__rob> im sure it doesn't have to be solid
[15:05:44] <CaptHindsight> patterns for investment casting is about the only parts manufactured on them
[15:05:47] <__rob> the same as a makerbot doesn't
[15:06:09] <CaptHindsight> solid meaning no longer liquid
[15:06:46] <__rob> ohh you mean you cant print flexible stuff
[15:07:08] <CaptHindsight> ^^
[15:07:29] <__rob> most people who buy that will no doubt want solid stuff
[15:07:41] <gregcnc> olo said something about flexible resins
[15:07:42] <__rob> or any 3d printer
[15:07:44] <CaptHindsight> the range of flexible resins when cured are outside the capabilities of the toy SLA printers
[15:07:56] <__rob> maybe thats just me
[15:08:24] <__rob> it is only in the low thousands tho, so for the money thats not too bad
[15:08:39] <__rob> print a new door knob or whatever
[15:09:04] <CaptHindsight> form1 used a galvo since using a projector is patented
[15:09:26] <CaptHindsight> the galvo for SLA went out of patent a couple of years ago..
[15:09:48] <CaptHindsight> but eD systems still filed other patent suits against them
[15:10:33] <CaptHindsight> 3D Systems
[15:11:00] <CaptHindsight> oh god I just watched the Olo video, good luck with that
[15:11:47] <CaptHindsight> hunk of foam to keep the resin out of the phone
[15:13:17] <CaptHindsight> HD projectors are ~$700 now new
[15:13:33] <CaptHindsight> you can build a Z-axis for $200
[15:15:07] <CaptHindsight> someone here could make a control board to swap out the Form1 control board and make some $$
[15:15:40] <CaptHindsight> make it the same size, with same IO but allow the used to control the galvos and laser any way they wish
[15:15:43] <gregcnc> for $100 it's makes a great stocking stuffer, and if you order now we'll double the resin FREE
[15:16:13] <_methods> just don't hate me when your phone is glued to the printer lol
[15:16:30] <__rob> patents on 3d printing should be band
[15:16:45] <gregcnc> just 3D printing?
[15:16:53] <CaptHindsight> a phone LCD is RGB, the Blue dye in the blue pixels passes ~460nm light
[15:16:53] <__rob> I thought obvious to an expert in the field was the level at which its not valid
[15:17:01] <__rob> most of these "innovations" are so nonsense
[15:17:17] <CaptHindsight> __rob: nah, it's been this way for years
[15:17:18] <gregcnc> same as any other patent
[15:17:23] <__rob> apparently heated build chambers are patented
[15:17:26] <__rob> seriously..
[15:17:40] <__rob> its the obvious next step whjen your part warps
[15:17:49] <CaptHindsight> the blue pixels in a LCD cover ~25% of the surface
[15:17:50] <__rob> due to what is obvously uneven cooldown
[15:18:19] <CaptHindsight> the rest is Green and Red plus traces and transistors
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[15:20:02] <CaptHindsight> do they spec their Z print rate?
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[15:20:30] <gregcnc> well something using ~75% of their vertical capacity took what looks like 4 hours
[15:20:48] <CaptHindsight> glacial like a glue gun
[15:21:59] <gregcnc> that's why I said people will use it once unless they run it at night or on a spare phone
[15:22:04] <CaptHindsight> the resin also hardens with the light in your room
[15:22:51] <CaptHindsight> there are going to be some disappointed buyers
[15:24:42] <CaptHindsight> using a $700 off the shelf DLP projector you can get 5mm/minute Z rates at 100um res over 192mm x 108mm
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[15:25:19] <CaptHindsight> that Carbon SLA printer is another scam
[15:25:24] <gregcnc> but it's not $100
[15:25:43] <gregcnc> people will throw 100 at anything
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[15:26:31] <CaptHindsight> heh, we could do it for $89!
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[15:27:17] <CaptHindsight> whats the Z travel?
[15:27:22] <CaptHindsight> 25mm?
[15:27:39] <CaptHindsight> 52mm
[15:28:03] <CaptHindsight> $2 stepper and z positioner
[15:28:22] <gregcnc> their patent must be based on using the phone
[15:28:34] <CaptHindsight> do they mention a patent?
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[15:29:00] <CaptHindsight> just post the plans
[15:29:18] <CaptHindsight> i think they are out of Taiwan
[15:29:26] <gregcnc> this should be an app and kit for next to nothing
[15:30:27] <CaptHindsight> since that's what it makes
[15:30:55] <CaptHindsight> the resin hype about future materials is silly
[15:31:57] <CaptHindsight> faster materials will melt the foam
[15:32:06] <CaptHindsight> and stick to the screen
[15:32:46] <CaptHindsight> it's like those toy drill, mill, lathes at HF
[15:32:59] <CaptHindsight> just for fun
[15:33:01] <gregcnc> do phones overheat if you insulate them like that?
[15:33:32] <CaptHindsight> with enough malware sure
[15:33:43] <CaptHindsight> so most phones eventually
[15:34:27] <CaptHindsight> but leaving your phone on an aluminum plate might be enough to cool it
[15:35:27] <CaptHindsight> they mention a tablet version for Sept 16
[15:35:47] <CaptHindsight> and others for 2017
[15:35:59] <gregcnc> wait for the 40" 4K?
[15:36:05] <CaptHindsight> plans are easy to post
[15:36:23] <CaptHindsight> but most makers can't build them
[15:36:36] <CaptHindsight> you have to sell them parts
[15:36:44] <archivist> its the 4 hours printing time, can you imagine a modern fb user managing to last that long :)
[15:37:36] <archivist> such a joke using tying up the phone for long jobs
[15:37:43] <CaptHindsight> I'm launching some LCD projectors for this soon
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[15:38:01] <CaptHindsight> HD res and monochrome light sources
[15:39:46] <CaptHindsight> large monochrome panels are $$ since they aren't made in high volume and typically sell to medical display manufacturers
[15:40:15] <CaptHindsight> but you could use a 110" LCD for printing
[15:40:28] <CaptHindsight> pixel are pretty big
[15:40:48] <CaptHindsight> but yeah a 40" 4K is not bad
[15:41:28] <gregcnc> what's the story with carbon3D?
[15:41:36] <CaptHindsight> money and hype
[15:41:51] <CaptHindsight> you can do top down and print faster
[15:42:09] <gregcnc> are they still not selling anything?
[15:42:16] <CaptHindsight> their patent is on an oxygen permeable membrane that is transparent
[15:42:54] <CaptHindsight> like several other clear plastics used for food storage and wraps
[15:43:12] <CaptHindsight> I read that they have some deals with GE and similar
[15:43:44] <CaptHindsight> autodesk and google invested in them
[15:44:27] <CaptHindsight> I'm surprised by how nobody has figured out how they are being scammed
[15:44:40] <CaptHindsight> google has some smart people
[15:44:47] <_methods> autodesk doesn't exactly have a great track record with hardware
[15:44:58] <_methods> and 2 words
[15:45:01] <_methods> google glass
[15:45:14] <CaptHindsight> but google does make some bad deals
[15:45:45] <gregcnc> tha'ts what i don't understand about these things, they seems to have working product, but what's taking so long to make a bunch of them
[15:46:14] <CaptHindsight> carbon3d relies on the initiator being sensitive to oxygen
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[15:46:26] <CaptHindsight> it slows or stops the polymerization
[15:46:52] <CaptHindsight> so again you're in a smaller range of possible resins that you can use
[15:47:15] <CaptHindsight> it's like having a spindle that only goes to 500rpm
[15:47:16] <gregcnc> right but they know that goign in
[15:47:45] <CaptHindsight> who knows the investors?
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[15:48:24] <gregcnc> carbon3d, but does the tech work or it's not really mature?
[15:48:36] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGITuLyEyg8 top down version of Carbon 3D
[15:48:57] <CaptHindsight> since we have oxygen in the atmosphere on earth, it comes in handy
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[15:50:04] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: it works but it's bassackwards
[15:50:11] <maxcnc> hi eastern ahead
[15:50:13] <gregcnc> i guess i've only see the other one where they pull it up
[15:50:28] <CaptHindsight> it was to get around the top down patent that might have just expired
[15:51:28] <maxcnc> till later
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[15:51:48] <CaptHindsight> it's the patent minefield that mucks most of this up
[15:52:10] <CaptHindsight> once FDM expired all the con men jumped in
[15:52:47] <CaptHindsight> but 20+ previous years of it should have shown people its limitations
[15:55:21] <witnit> anyone seen one of these but with indexable inserts?
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0837/5149/products/305460_118329526_product_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1452649695
[15:55:43] <witnit> Im thinking about using it as a multi stage skiving tool
[15:56:08] <witnit> each cutting edge would take off a predetermined amount until to desired diameter
[15:56:21] <archivist> make your own
[15:56:33] <witnit> Thats what its coming down to
[15:56:58] <witnit> I think I will need triangle positive rake inserts
[15:57:07] <archivist> I did make a broach for a job once
[15:57:26] <witnit> I make many of them but never indexable ones
[15:57:55] <witnit> usual hexagon broaches for allen/hex key
[15:57:58] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: how much is the Olo resin?
[15:58:06] <archivist> not sure you gain much if anything
[15:58:10] <CaptHindsight> $150/L
[15:58:23] <gregcnc> it said 6.3cc part was $0.94
[15:58:37] <witnit> I will be using it as a skive though on a lathe, not for cutting keyways
[15:58:39] <gregcnc> if my maths worked
[15:59:16] <CaptHindsight> ~15 cents per mL
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[15:59:47] <gregcnc> witnit as opposed to grooving tool?
[16:00:20] <CaptHindsight> heh, we sell it for that range of wavelength by the pail at ~$40/Kg
[16:02:23] <archivist> witnit, I know one maker uses precision balls for final sizing pressing them through
[16:03:30] <witnit> gregcnc: grooving tool?
[16:03:34] <gregcnc> witnit what kind of feature are you making?
[16:03:41] <witnit> an undercut
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[16:04:37] <witnit> Im feeling a multistage/step skive would have the longest tool life with quickest tool changes
[16:05:58] <gregcnc> undercut on a diameter?
[16:06:02] <witnit> ya
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[16:07:03] <archivist> use a turning tool to pull the chips out
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[16:07:19] <witnit> Im currently using a box tool but the shaving load badly in it
[16:08:28] <witnit> well the skive will help control the shaving with the proper geometry on them, also with .030 passes the shavings will be interupted
[16:09:33] <gregcnc> my coffee must have run out I can't envision this process
[16:09:34] <witnit> currently im undercutting one end of the part with a form and shave (terrible shavings with the form tool) then in another position Im using a boxtool for a length of the part and following with a geometric diehead
[16:10:40] <gregcnc> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Fmx4KixuJF8/T_x_A90fCMI/AAAAAAAAAL4/ZxbmqfBDbk0/s1600/pullbroach01a.jpg
[16:10:42] <witnit> so undercut left side of part, turned and threaded on the other half with a step between them betweteen them
[16:10:53] <witnit> yes yes yes yes yes
[16:11:02] <witnit> thank you gregcnc "pull broack"
[16:11:03] <witnit> err
[16:11:06] <witnit> broach*
[16:11:52] <gregcnc> inserted types aren't common
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[16:13:26] <gregcnc> the parts sounds like screw machine work
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[16:15:14] <witnit> it is screw machine
[16:16:31] <witnit> the issue is mostly shaving control and space confinements
[16:19:36] <gregcnc> the tool in that pic was made by seco
[16:20:03] <gregcnc> http://cuttingedgeconversation.blogspot.com/2012_07_01_archive.html
[16:20:14] <witnit> yeah I was looking them up, it seems there are not many companies producting them
[16:20:31] <witnit> Im thinking my best bet is to find a proper insert and build my own
[16:21:02] <witnit> this is how much room I have to work and deal with shavings
https://youtu.be/vyK-FWPcchk?t=27
[16:23:03] <gregcnc> skive is usually one pass
[16:25:02] <witnit> right it will be, but I will be having a second and third skive directly behind that one so they follow one another until im at the correct diameter
[16:26:16] <gregcnc> there is enough travel for that?
[16:26:20] <witnit> yeah
[16:27:16] <witnit> I will have to cut past the skives and then index the part out of the way, the draw my slide back before the next part comes into position
[16:27:26] <witnit> then draw*
[16:29:06] <gregcnc> and you want multiple skive to break the chips
[16:31:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/usedH10-36Noriginal-packaging-miniature-stepper-motor-camera-focusing-with-screw-/161835382997
[16:32:12] <CaptHindsight> oops that looks like I posted a stepper motor and lead screw positioner that might work for a phone based printer
[16:32:33] <witnit> yeah breaking chips, long tool life, constant finish and diameters
[16:33:41] <witnit> I need to spread the work load over multiple tools without adding more positions to do it in
[16:33:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-B04-drive-mini-stepping-motor-Camera-focusing-Mini-motor-stepper-motor-/121030519661
[16:34:05] <witnit> amazing
[16:34:10] <CaptHindsight> 18 deg steps
[16:34:17] <witnit> gotta see how many he sold
[16:37:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-B05CD-drive-mini-stepping-motor-two-phase-four-wire-system-stepper-motor/121164554291
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[16:37:20] <CaptHindsight> http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/smark1252011/media/14.jpg.html
[16:38:48] <CaptHindsight> I think I have some of these. If i wasn't so busy I could probably build the whole thing today
[16:39:18] <CaptHindsight> just need a phone app
[16:40:23] <CaptHindsight> display image/slice, move z up, move z down, display next layer/image/slice, move z up .....
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[16:45:16] <CaptHindsight> https://www.adafruit.com/products/858
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[16:46:04] <pcw_home> contact print it so it grows out of the phone surface
[16:47:02] * Loetmichel just got a call from my Car repair mechanic... the bill is now up to 4884 eur... and he is still waiting for a couple of screws to be delivered to affix the drive shaft to the chassis again. :-( that'll be the priciest repair fpr a 13 year old opel EVER... :-(
[16:47:25] <CaptHindsight> whats does it sell for used?
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[16:48:43] <CaptHindsight> does it come with the standard "we shoot the mechanic if anything breaks in the next 10K kilometers"?
[16:50:26] <CaptHindsight> warranty
[16:50:36] <MrSunshine> what the frekkin hell
[16:50:52] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: 1800 :-)
[16:51:33] <Loetmichel> oh, wrong. The repair is "only" 3884eur.
[16:52:39] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: with the way the laws are there can you be pretty confident that at least the repair will be dome correctly
[16:52:45] <MrSunshine> throw away your passports, leave the country and claim asylum somewhere
[16:53:17] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: how much is the actual car worth?
[16:53:19] <MrSunshine> on a raft
[16:55:04] <Sync> SpeedEvil: 2k at best
[16:55:10] <CaptHindsight> MrSunshine: are they bringing back Jersey Shore to TV?
[16:56:12] <MrSunshine> staring Loetmichel ?
[16:56:47] <MrSunshine> i need transfer punches :/
[16:56:55] <CaptHindsight> heh, maybe it's not safe to be a Mormon
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-brussels-boston-bombing-survivor-20160323-story.html
[16:56:59] <MrSunshine> guess i can make some myself but =)
[16:58:02] <CaptHindsight> I don't want to travel with that guy
[17:00:22] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight++
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[17:01:27] <Jymmm> Well, I made a backfeed cord. though one end is a 20A connector
[17:01:43] <OdinYggd> Did you know there was a lady who survived the Titanic, that had been aboard Titanic's older sister Olympic during a major accident that almost sank it
[17:01:50] -!- swarfer [swarfer!~Thunderbi@105.184.192.136] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:01:54] <OdinYggd> And was a nurse aboard Titanic's younger sister Britannic when it sank
[17:02:02] <OdinYggd> She survived all three liners
[17:02:10] <Sync> noice
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[17:02:35] <CaptHindsight> how did she eventually pass?
[17:03:08] <OdinYggd> iirc, lung problems from smoking
[17:03:26] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: about 1800
[17:05:52] <OdinYggd> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violet_Jessop
[17:06:17] <OdinYggd> Heart failure in 1971.
[17:06:31] <OdinYggd> Still, badass lady right there.
[17:07:01] <OdinYggd> Olympic got in a wreck, she was aboard. Titanic sank, she survived. Got called to sea as a nurse aboard Britannic- then a hospital ship, and survived that sinking too
[17:08:12] <CaptHindsight> not traveling with her either
[17:08:32] <OdinYggd> No sense of adventure.
[17:08:47] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[17:08:49] <OdinYggd> YOu'd be safe travelling iwth me, I bring enough ductape and sheet metal to build an entire lifeboat on demand
[17:09:06] <Jymmm> OdinYggd: No suicidal tendencies actually
[17:09:34] <OdinYggd> Its airplanes you gotta watch for. If those screw up you can't just walk/swim away
[17:09:34] <CaptHindsight> I've been married so I know whats it's like to skirt death
[17:09:39] <Jymmm> OdinYggd: Ok, prove it. Built a life saving device in 20 seconds or less.
[17:09:53] <OdinYggd> Pants become life vest.
[17:09:56] <OdinYggd> Done this before.
[17:10:02] <OdinYggd> Next please.
[17:10:43] <OdinYggd> But today's vehicles have a lot more safety procedures and equipment than the ones around the time the titanic sank
[17:11:06] <OdinYggd> Including fully enclosed lifeboats that will stay afloat even if they get flipped over by rough seas
[17:11:18] <CaptHindsight> tell us about it
[17:13:01] <Loetmichel> OdinYggd: and enough lifeboats for all persons aboard in the first place ;)
[17:13:40] <CaptHindsight> as the GOP would say "Good ol days" when only the upper class mattered
[17:13:58] <CaptHindsight> they had enough boats for everyone that mattered
[17:14:10] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: They still say it, just not in mixed company.
[17:14:36] <CaptHindsight> "So" vp cheney on 60 minutes
[17:15:14] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: they just avoid in during election years
[17:16:43] <Jymmm> Jut curious... is there such a thing as a single gang box breaker?
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[17:19:23] <Crom_> Jymmm, yes, hard to find though, easier to get a panel mount 15amp and mount it on a blank cover
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[17:22:24] <R2E4> +Hi guys
[17:22:59] <R2E4> IS there a way to tell Linuxcnc to ignore soft limits during a tool change?
[17:23:50] <R2E4> The X axis has to travel past the limit switch, I can handle the hardware bypassing it but dont know if you can tell Lcnc to ignore during a toolchange.
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[17:55:13] <cradek> R2E4: no, I don't think so, and this seems like a terrible setup. what's unusual about the machine? you must not be talking about a R2E4...?
[17:55:50] <witnit> R2E4: heres a workaround until you get it figure out; put an "output" (Dout01) in loop with your limit switch and toggle it with something like M64p1 and M64P2 then do your action
[17:56:37] <cradek> no, he's asking about soft limits
[17:56:48] <witnit> ohhh soft limit sorry
[17:56:50] <witnit> derp
[17:56:58] <cradek> :-)
[17:57:03] <archivist> but then mentions a real swith!
[17:57:36] <witnit> well concept is there, maybe its applicable
[17:57:59] <Sync> that setup was actually common for a lot of machines
[17:58:22] <cradek> archivist: I read it as two problems, one s/he knows how to solve
[17:59:10] <Crom_> ugh, water shut off is 4" off the wall 14' up and it's a damn gate valve. I'm gonna have fun replacing the toilet valve
[17:59:59] <archivist> now I know the magic key presses to unlock an old anilam readout
[18:01:34] <CaptHindsight> do I blame mach3 or myself for breaking an endmill by setting the feed rate too high?
[18:01:59] <witnit> bad batch of material
[18:02:17] <witnit> inconsistent grain
[18:03:32] <Crom_> CaptHindsight, ummmm you?
[18:03:50] <CaptHindsight> another odd quirk is it throwing a smooth stepper error when you turn the coolant ON while running a program
[18:04:34] <witnit> coolant on is drawing too much ma?
[18:04:37] <witnit> or something?
[18:04:43] <Crom_> so to turn on coolant, you have to program in a halt, pause, turn coolant on, pause for things to settle things down, then continue
[18:04:56] <CaptHindsight> I'll have time to swap to Linuxcnc next month
[18:05:14] <witnit> another month before freedom :/
[18:05:31] <CaptHindsight> electrical problem or is it scared of water?
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[18:05:47] <maxcnc> hi
[18:07:02] <CaptHindsight> Crom_: sounds like lots of work
[18:07:09] <maxcnc> cradek: thanks for the hint yeatrerday got it working again ;-) on qcad
[18:08:54] <witnit> does • TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION = ignore soft limits?
[18:08:55] <cradek> you switched to the Free Software version?
[18:09:12] <cradek> witnit: no
[18:09:45] <maxcnc> cradek: no
[18:10:01] <maxcnc> config rm
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[18:10:17] <cradek> (?)
[18:11:52] <maxcnc> witnit: i solved this by gettng the limit switch to a mcode
[18:12:13] <maxcnc> and after tool change put it in place back
[18:13:11] <Not-Renny> Helloo, CNC-ers!
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[18:14:02] <maxcnc> ;-)
[18:14:23] <Crom_> CaptHindsight, you need to edit the Mach3 macro for coolant on
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[18:16:43] <CaptHindsight> I found a work around. Turn the coolant on before running a program.
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[18:17:28] <maxcnc> CaptHindsight: always best behavier
[18:17:43] <CaptHindsight> then manually turn it off with a valve that rotates by hand if I want to stop it while the program is running
[18:17:45] <maxcnc> dont mess up with spray or overload
[18:18:24] <CaptHindsight> so far so go, the universe is still here
[18:18:33] <maxcnc> where
[18:18:38] <maxcnc> i missed it
[18:18:45] <_methods> car has rabbit mill
[18:18:57] <maxcnc> clouds outside
[18:18:57] <maxcnc> but i got new street lights
[18:18:59] <CaptHindsight> along with all the alternate realities
[18:19:05] <maxcnc> now led mutch brighter
[18:20:02] <_methods> we got new reflectors in the road
[18:20:15] <_methods> no much more reflective
[18:21:08] <CaptHindsight> is it street legal to have mirrors in your rear window that actively track and position their reflection into the car behind you?
[18:21:30] <_methods> hahah
[18:21:59] <CaptHindsight> just for a-holes that tailgate with their spotlights on
[18:22:47] <CaptHindsight> if you need that much light maybe you shouldn't be driving at night
[18:31:09] <Crom_> CaptHindsight, great idea!
[18:31:43] <Crom_> oh sorry office didn't know that robot was on my package shelf
[18:32:53] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: my friend did that once... with a truck that has 10*100W High beams ...
[18:33:13] <Crom_> or just make a radar reflector but with mirrors... 3 mirrors placed 90 degrees apart from each other
[18:33:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.landscaper.de/db_0528.jpg
[18:33:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.landscaper.de/db_0638.jpg
[18:33:28] <Loetmichel> :-)
[18:34:02] <_methods> ah good ole klaus
[18:34:04] <Loetmichel> there was a car approaching us at night with high beams on... on a rurual road... so he blinked his lower highbeams.
[18:34:14] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: yeah, I need to reflect that light back into his front window
[18:34:21] <Loetmichel> .... no reaction.
[18:34:26] <Loetmichel> so he bliked again
[18:34:27] <Loetmichel> .... no reaction.
[18:34:28] <Crom_> that's the Czech truck right?
[18:34:47] <gregcnc> Tatra
[18:35:04] <Loetmichel> so he flipped the sitch for the upper 6 and held the hhogh beam lever a few secs...
[18:35:09] <Crom_> yep made and designed in the former Czech republic
[18:35:12] <Loetmichel> the car nearly drove off the curb
[18:35:13] <Loetmichel> ;)
[18:35:29] <Loetmichel> Crom: thats a tatra 813 colossus, correct
[18:36:37] <gregcnc> does he still count km/l or is it l/km in that one?
[18:36:52] <Crom_> wooo 12x12 with a Cummins
[18:37:03] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: on the road: about 60 l/100km
[18:37:13] <Loetmichel> not THAT bad for permanent 8*8
[18:38:31] <Loetmichel> Crom: the tatra? no. its 8*8 and 17.5 liters V12 aircooled diesel. no turbocharger
[18:38:33] <gregcnc> that's not bad at US diesel price, but europe?
[18:38:36] <Loetmichel> 250hp
[18:39:26] <Loetmichel> oh we mostly drove it in africa as an RV
[18:39:36] <Crom_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_815 says Cummins is an engine option
[18:39:37] <Loetmichel> for "holidays"
[18:39:43] <Loetmichel> so the fuel wasnt THAT expensive
[18:39:55] <Loetmichel> Crom: i said 813
[18:40:51] <Loetmichel> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_813
[18:41:35] <gregcnc> no truck trials?
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[18:42:03] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: no, it was an RV for doing some holidays in the african deserts
[18:42:29] <Loetmichel> we went to maroc, west sahara, libya and algeria in it
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[18:43:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160322-colorpod-add-on-converts-your-desktop-3d-printer-into-a-full-color-inkjet-cartridge-based-printer.html how come the con men aren't jumping all over this? It makes full color prints.
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[18:44:27] <CaptHindsight> you can recycle many older inkjets to make one
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[18:48:46] <MrSunshine> hmm who here was into hand scraping ?
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[18:50:08] <maxcnc> Gn8
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[18:50:27] <Not-Renny> I have only recently learned of it MrSunshine, but it does sound interesting.
[18:51:27] <MrSunshine> i love it .. i forget time when doing it .. but got a big angle error on my column that i need to correct and wanted to ask about what the course of correcting it the easiest is .. without a mill or grinder =)
[18:51:37] <MrSunshine> i guess clamp it and file away ?
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[18:54:12] <Not-Renny> Sounds like it would take days and days
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[18:55:37] <MrSunshine> well i have no life anways :P
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[18:55:47] <MrSunshine> i want to learn a skill some more as i find it very interesting and fun =)
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[18:56:31] <Not-Renny> Heh. Well, I learned how to cut glass yesterday. That was scary.
[18:56:50] <gregcnc> holy..
https://www.instagram.com/p/BDTakaGg3ve/
[18:56:51] <cradek> cut as in score and snap, or cut as in machine?
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[18:57:30] <Not-Renny> Score and snap. I have never seen it done before, so I was half expecting the glass to explode in my face at any moment.
[18:58:24] <djdelorie> gregcnc: I've been watching that youtube channel, some of the stuff he does is amazing
[18:58:55] <Loetmichel> Not-Renny: i do that with 1.1mm 24" glass panes...
[18:59:05] <Loetmichel> where every pane costs 260 eur...
[18:59:16] <gregcnc> the knife is a knife, but 3000USD?
[19:00:05] <Not-Renny> Well dang.
[19:00:52] <Not-Renny> Loetmichel, I was using 3mm glass from a printer/scanner I am recycling.
[19:01:24] <Not-Renny> And that sounds really, really scary to cut, Loetmichel. Why do you buy this?
[19:01:39] <Loetmichel> i do shieldung for .mil computers for a living... the glass panes are clad with copper mesh and meant to shield the TFTs
[19:01:49] <Loetmichel> shielding
[19:02:12] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15220&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- aaand another 260€ for the trash...
[19:02:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14919&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[19:03:08] <Not-Renny> Wait, what is .mil computer?
[19:03:39] <CaptHindsight> military
[19:03:48] <Loetmichel> really annoying is when you have enverything back in one piece and then notice that small "nearly invisible" break... MAN was i pissed ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12460&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[19:03:48] <CaptHindsight> war, guns and stuff like dat
[19:04:11] <_methods> pew pew
[19:04:22] <Loetmichel> military, yes
[19:04:25] <CaptHindsight> laser war
[19:04:53] <Not-Renny> Wait, so you fabricate the computer parts /by hand/?
[19:05:20] <Loetmichel> we modify consumer parts to meet military shielding standards
[19:05:25] <Not-Renny> Ahhhh
[19:05:36] <Loetmichel> so we need to put a copper mesh in front of the TfTs
[19:05:39] <CaptHindsight> fought by drones, robots and DMV counter workers
[19:06:01] <Not-Renny> Those darn DMV counter workers
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[19:09:42] <Not-Renny> Speaking of energy weapons, me and a guy are drawing up plans for a Gauss pistol.
[19:10:00] <djdelorie> In case you get attacked by some evil Gauss in the middle of the night, you can shoot it?
[19:10:10] <CaptHindsight> does it only shoot Gauss?
[19:10:18] <Not-Renny> Yes, definitely :P
[19:10:21] <Loetmichel> Not-Renny: thats what a dell thin client and a 24" hp TFT looks when i had my fingers on it:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14412&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[19:10:22] <Loetmichel> :-)
[19:10:56] <Not-Renny> Meheh, it looks so official
[19:11:02] <djdelorie> If you did it in brass you could cross-market it as steampunk
[19:11:12] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[19:11:20] <Not-Renny> I think the government would approve
[19:11:31] <Not-Renny> Plus, more shielding!
[19:11:37] <Loetmichel> its 1mm zinc clad steel
[19:12:02] <CaptHindsight> _methods: why come it was OK to carpet bomb in Vietnam but it is OK in Syria or Iraq?
[19:12:02] <Loetmichel> we also do it in red...
[19:12:11] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15624&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[19:12:13] <Loetmichel> :-)
[19:12:18] <CaptHindsight> sorry not OK in Syria and Iraq
[19:12:28] <Loetmichel> (and blue and black, but i dont have photos of that)
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[19:16:45] <Not-Renny> But Why not pink, Loetmichel?
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[19:17:21] <Not-Renny> CaptHindsight, there probably is some unbelievably complex political explanation somewhere, on 600 pages of small print.
[19:17:31] <CaptHindsight> Not-Renny: how about a raygun that only works on duchebags?
[19:17:48] <Loetmichel> Not-Renny: i dont htink i could stand an 8 hr work day lookinbg at the red one... not to mentoin a pink one. But if a cusomer orders pink ones: we will make them in pink ;)
[19:17:49] <Not-Renny> Microwave cannon. Works on obnoxious subs
[19:17:52] <pink_vampire> hi
[19:18:12] <Loetmichel> at the price we call for these clients the customer can certainly whish for a color
[19:18:16] <Not-Renny> Jello!
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[19:18:54] <Not-Renny> I guess a €160 pane of hand cut glass can call for any price it wants :P
[19:19:35] <pink_vampire> Loetmichel: how do you make the 90 deg angle for the case?
[19:19:39] <Not-Renny> Most of the equipment in our dental office is German, and ungodly expensive because it is also top of the line quality.
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[19:20:00] <Not-Renny> Noooo, netsplit
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[19:21:48] <_methods> speaking of carpet bombing whoever sets up a base on the moon first can really carpet bomb the shiznit out of anyone they want
[19:22:02] <_methods> i don't know wtf we're doing going to mars
[19:22:35] <Loetmichel> pink_vampire: by miklling a slot and bending by hand
[19:22:55] <CaptHindsight> i thought everyone signed a treaty limiting any aggression to stern looks on the moon
[19:23:10] <Loetmichel> Not-Renny: the 260€ are the price WE pay the supplier
[19:23:16] <_methods> it's international waters technically
[19:23:20] <_methods> so the treaty means nothign
[19:23:48] <gregcnc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnL6Cje7Ehk
[19:24:02] <_methods> just think if that amazon douche bag gets up there first
[19:24:13] <_methods> he's not bound by any moon bombing treaties
[19:24:44] <pink_vampire> Loetmichel: how do make the corner so crisp?
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[19:25:21] <_methods> nobody wants a case of the humans
[19:25:30] <Loetmichel> pink_vampire:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14160&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- does that help?
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[19:26:41] <Not-Renny> Oh. How much do you buy the glass for?
[19:26:43] <pink_vampire> Loetmichel: I can see that it's bent, but it make crisp corner,
[19:27:24] <CaptHindsight> I like how there some announcement that the bombers were detained earlier this years and released but warned the country they were sent to that they are terrorists/fighters/school teachers
[19:27:46] <pink_vampire> are you using something to make it like that?
[19:27:53] <Loetmichel> i mill a 0,8mm deep 2mm wide slot at the inside of the bend in the the 1,5mm thick aluminium sheets, and then hand-bend it there.
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[19:28:14] <Loetmichel> the resulting OUTSIDE of the bend has a radius of about 1mm
[19:28:44] <Loetmichel> on the inside the "corners" of the slot nearly touch each other
[19:28:47] <pink_vampire> and then you solder / weld it?
[19:28:58] <Loetmichel> yes, if required
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[19:29:22] <pink_vampire> tig?
[19:29:56] <Loetmichel> aluminium: we give any welds away
[19:30:18] <Loetmichel> no welder at the company and i dont see why i should bring my own tools any more...
[19:30:38] <Loetmichel> i do some brass/copper soldered enclosures
[19:31:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16134&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
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[19:32:25] <pink_vampire> I want to make an enclosure for my cnc machine.
[19:33:16] <pink_vampire> but it's have to be something that can be disassemble / reassemble.
[19:33:55] <Loetmichel> so make it out of aluminium and use loads of screws ;)
[19:33:58] <Loetmichel> like i do
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[19:34:22] <Loetmichel> you know, like these:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14184&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
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[19:35:56] <Not-Renny> Heh
[19:36:37] <pink_vampire> but how it will be water tight?
[19:37:38] <Loetmichel> pink_vampire: lots of gasket tape ;)
[19:38:05] <pink_vampire> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f6/ee/5e/f6ee5e57e4fcae7d6545cba6c7a707a8.jpg
[19:38:13] <Loetmichel> but why do you want it gasket tight?
[19:38:14] <pink_vampire> this one look nice
[19:38:24] <Loetmichel> s/gasket/water
[19:38:41] <Loetmichel> i actually misunderstood you
[19:38:57] <pink_vampire> I want to use flooding
[19:39:00] <Loetmichel> i thought you wanted to make an electrical enclosure FOR your Mill
[19:39:09] <Loetmichel> not an enclosure to put the mill IN
[19:39:13] <Loetmichel> i see now
[19:39:55] <Loetmichel> for that i would use stock square aluminoum profiles and some lexan sheets
[19:40:20] <Loetmichel> and loads of gaskets to get it watertight if needed
[19:41:52] <pink_vampire> I'm not sure how to make it.
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[19:56:14] <pink_vampire> I've did yesterday about 3 cups of chips!
[20:00:37] <Deejay> hi pink
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[20:01:55] <pink_vampire> hi Deejay
[20:02:40] <pink_vampire> Deejay: do you have a cnc machine?
[20:03:37] <Deejay> yep, self-build. not a professional machine
[20:04:01] <Deejay> for hobby stuff
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[20:04:14] <pink_vampire> nice!
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[20:04:19] <pink_vampire> any pics?
[20:04:36] <Deejay> no, because you would laugh ;)
[20:06:00] <pink_vampire> I promise not to
[20:06:49] <djdelorie> Deejay: if it helps you can laugh at mine first:
http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/
[20:07:32] <Deejay> http://quadrokopter.net/fraese/kaese1.jpg
[20:07:58] <pink_vampire> dj that was my dream 15 years ago..
[20:08:01] <Deejay> http://quadrokopter.net/fraese/fraessetup.jpg
[20:08:19] <djdelorie> what, laughing at my machine was your dream? ;-)
[20:08:22] <Deejay> djdelorie, nice
[20:08:32] <pink_vampire> Deejay: very nice!
[20:08:46] <Deejay> tnx
[20:09:00] <Deejay> not sure if you are serious ;)
[20:09:05] <pink_vampire> also in the living room?
[20:09:28] <Deejay> right next to me!
[20:09:34] <pink_vampire> look very well made.
[20:09:38] <djdelorie> yours is a lot more professional-looking than mine
[20:09:43] <CaptHindsight> would you use wood if you could use wood?
[20:09:52] <Simonious> yeah, what are we laughing at.. it's a solid looking machine
[20:10:06] <pink_vampire> my make chips all over the house.
[20:10:17] <djdelorie> a wooden machine is definitely *not* solid and I have to accomodate that with the cnc programming
[20:10:25] <Deejay> hehe pink, yes, thats sometimes a problem ;)
[20:10:46] <CaptHindsight> how much wood would a would worker use if a wood worker could use wood?
[20:10:55] <djdelorie> obviously, all of it :-)
[20:11:04] * Deejay likes wood
[20:11:09] <pink_vampire> i want to make an enclosure for her
[20:11:19] <CaptHindsight> a wood worker would use as much wood as a wood worked could use wood
[20:11:48] <pink_vampire> but it going to be huge box inside the house..
[20:12:00] <Deejay> hrhr, a room in the room
[20:12:21] <pink_vampire> it will be 5' by 3'
[20:12:23] <Deejay> big enough so that you can walk into it
[20:13:06] <Deejay> ;)
[20:13:40] <pink_vampire> I'm thinking maybe to make just a wood tray
[20:14:32] <djdelorie> throw a blanket over it...
[20:14:59] <pink_vampire> no!
[20:15:23] <Deejay> big enclosure made from clear acrylic, with big doors to open :)
[20:15:32] <Deejay> so that you can see the machine working
[20:15:40] <pink_vampire> 3d machining is soo nice , but it make aloooot of chips.
[20:16:16] <djdelorie> 3d printing avoids the chips, but one part can take all day to make...
[20:16:37] <swarfer> funny that none of the adverts for 3D printing mention the itme it takes....
[20:16:48] <pink_vampire> i make almost only metal parts.
[20:16:57] <CaptHindsight> swarfer: and ruin their pitch?
[20:17:11] <djdelorie> you can 3d print metal powder, but it's not the same
[20:17:20] <swarfer> would it? I would prefer to know up front...
[20:17:36] <pink_vampire> one sec.. my 2kw laser ..
[20:17:40] <XXCoder> Deejay: your machine is just fine
[20:17:44] <CaptHindsight> swarfer: they tend to avoid mentioning print rates
[20:17:58] <djdelorie> printing time is mostly independent of the printer, and depends on the filament you're using and the quality you want
[20:18:11] <Deejay> XXCoder, thanks :)
[20:18:13] <pink_vampire> i want to try graphite..
[20:18:24] <pink_vampire> that is nasty stuff..
[20:18:30] <CaptHindsight> SLA is 10-100x faster than FDM
[20:18:56] <pink_vampire> CaptHindsight: yeah.. resin parts..
[20:19:08] <djdelorie> I've got at least a 10:1 speed ratio just in FDM though, "depending"
[20:19:59] <swarfer> saw a video some time back of a machine that can 5axis weld deposit (some sort of powdered laser sintering) and then cut.
[20:20:47] <_methods> yeah dmg machine
[20:21:01] <pink_vampire> what kind of parts do you make?
[20:21:07] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA
[20:21:08] <swarfer> ah yes,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr_PneeyO34
[20:21:10] <_methods> that machine there
[20:21:23] <CaptHindsight> swarfer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA
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[20:21:55] <swarfer> yup, found it myself when I asked the right question
[20:23:00] <_methods> a REAL 3d printer
[20:23:05] <CaptHindsight> FDM with milling makes sense, but NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO......
[20:23:34] <CaptHindsight> it's tooo hard to make with hot melt and threaded rod, wah wha wha
[20:23:53] <Valen> sure it is, just really friggin hot melt
[20:24:01] <swarfer> hehe, I like foam and tape construction
[20:24:12] <pink_vampire> I'm the only one here that make parts?
[20:24:33] <CaptHindsight> pink_vampire: yes, you are the new queen
[20:24:38] <CaptHindsight> hail hail hail
[20:24:56] <_methods> lol
[20:25:10] <pink_vampire> Awwwww
[20:25:37] <swarfer> anyone else impressed with PathPilot? those wizards look good.
[20:26:25] <pink_vampire> it's an open source?
[20:26:35] <_methods> it's and open sore
[20:26:45] <swarfer> no, Tormach did the wizards and sells it, but all built on LinuxCNC
[20:26:49] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/uncategorised-metalworking-machines/118358-phenolic-basalt-head-hm45.html is ours
[20:27:00] <pink_vampire> is there a place to download it?
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[20:28:31] <CaptHindsight> just updates
[20:28:42] <CaptHindsight> the full version is on CD
[20:29:02] <swarfer> http://www.tormach.com/pathpilot.html
[20:29:03] <pink_vampire> how much it's cost?
[20:29:17] <CaptHindsight> the price varies by how well you can perform the Lumberjack dance
[20:29:24] <pink_vampire> can I use it for my G0704?
[20:29:56] <swarfer> I believe so, it is Lcnc with wizards on top
[20:30:19] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/2-j10md_OXw?t=38s
[20:30:28] <CaptHindsight> part of my answer is made up
[20:30:45] <swarfer> FAQ #7....
[20:30:52] <Deejay> bavarians... special type of germans ;)
[20:31:15] <pink_vampire> Tormach has invested thousands of man hours into the development and we believe PathPilot is worth a great deal. Nevertheless, at this time we’re offering the software portion of PathPilot as a free upgrade to all of our machine customers. There will be a minimal cost for shipping the necessary DVD and hardware, but there is no license fee for the system.
[20:31:21] <_methods> Valen: that's pretty damn cool
[20:31:37] <Valen> needs a new shower curtain
[20:31:55] <_methods> adds to the serial killer lab ambience
[20:31:59] <_methods> lol
[20:32:08] <Valen> we have a thick plastic one on there now, but the chips have worn a hole in it over time
[20:32:26] <swarfer> ah, bedtime, goodnight all
[20:32:39] <Valen> we are planning on making some new mills, should be good
[20:32:41] <Deejay> g'night swarfer
[20:32:50] <Valen> going to do an inclined bed full sheet router next
[20:32:55] <pink_vampire> how did they make the interface so nice and graphic?
[20:33:25] <_methods> Valen: how does the weight compare to the original head?
[20:33:42] <Valen> I think its around 50-60kg vs 100?
[20:33:53] <swarfer> looks like they just rewrote 'axis', it is just python scripts
[20:34:00] <swarfer> g'night
[20:34:27] <CaptHindsight> Valen is the bed inclined or the operator?
[20:34:27] <Valen> there are a surprisingly large number of holes in it _methods
[20:34:41] <Valen> CaptHindsight: both, we just live in hope it cancels out
[20:36:00] <Valen> does emc still stall the motion planner if you change the spindle speed?
[20:38:00] <pink_vampire> how tormach did the interface so nice and graphic?
[20:38:13] <Valen> reskin axis by the look of it
[20:38:25] <gregcnc> they probably paid some people to do it
[20:38:43] <CaptHindsight> they did
[20:38:53] <CaptHindsight> also the new trajectory planner
[20:39:09] <gregcnc> so if you pay yourself you can probably do the same
[20:39:25] <CaptHindsight> no, I charge too much
[20:40:10] <pink_vampire> I mean i there a build in tool in linuxcnc to do it?
[20:41:29] <CaptHindsight> anyone that writes good software should be handsomely rewarded
[20:42:43] <CaptHindsight> Valen: Mill 2.0 and a lathe in the future?
[20:43:18] <Valen> we are thinking about doing lathe2.0 in epoxy granite somewhat as a learning tool
[20:43:29] <Valen> we are thinking of making it a vertical lathe
[20:43:40] <Valen> take up less floor space so we can make something overly large lol
[20:44:00] <gregcnc> bar feed will be tough
[20:44:01] <CaptHindsight> I'm developing a line of machine tools made from composites for the prosumer market
[20:45:10] <enleth> heh, got hit with an indigo blue steel chip right off the mill, I now have a small burn mark
[20:45:12] <Valen> bar feed?
[20:45:58] <enleth> deep indigo would be 850C or so, I think
[20:48:17] <Valen> how would you suggest silencing a CO2 tank venting?
[20:48:41] <Valen> I mean its coming out of a ball valve atm and I'd like to get it to "not stupidly loud" levels
[20:49:23] <XXCoder> noise cancelling speakers near it? heh
[20:50:22] <djdelorie> look at gun supressors?
[20:50:27] <CaptHindsight> gravity fed bar feed
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[20:50:46] <gregcnc> pneumatic muffler?
[20:50:58] <DaViruz> yeah pneumatic muffler is what you need
[20:50:59] <djdelorie> I have a sound reducer on my vacuum system that looks like a supressor
[20:51:18] <DaViruz> usually a lump of sintered metal, they are quite effective
[20:51:37] <CaptHindsight> Valen: what pressure and flow rate?
[20:52:00] <Valen> its for chilling off a paintball tank so lots and lots lol
[20:52:06] <Valen> around 1000PSI in theory
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[20:52:30] <Valen> to chill it, you part fill the tank, then just dump that to atmosphere
[20:53:13] <DaViruz> http://www.clippard.com/cms/sites/default/files/wiki_images/Clippard-Mufflers-Group.png
[20:53:25] <DaViruz> i have one on my fill gear for paintball tanks, works a treat
[20:53:41] <Valen> penumatic muffler that looks like the stuff
[20:53:47] <Valen> my google fu was failing
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[20:53:59] <Valen> how loud is it DaViruz?
[20:56:21] <DaViruz> i'm not sure how to answer that
[20:56:45] <Valen> you can talk over it? its louder than an angle grinder?
[20:56:58] <Valen> don't need hearing protection to be in the next room
[20:57:03] <Valen> vacuum cleaner
[20:57:41] <DaViruz> a lot more quiet than a angle grinder
[20:58:13] <Valen> so what common thing that makes noise is it about the same level of loudness as ;->
[20:58:17] <DaViruz> you can probably talk over it easily, i haven't really done any long dumps
[20:58:27] <DaViruz> co2 is too expensive here to use it just to chill bottles..
[20:58:28] <DaViruz> :)
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[20:59:50] <Valen> its like $20 for a 9kg tank I think?
[21:00:09] <DaViruz> try $35 for a 2kg :(
[21:00:15] <Valen> wtf?
[21:00:17] <Valen> where is here?
[21:00:22] <DaViruz> sweden
[21:00:25] <Valen> we use it for robot wars so we have like 8 matches over 2 days
[21:00:40] <Valen> are you going to a gas supplier for that?
[21:01:06] <DaViruz> a local fire extinguisher service place
[21:01:19] <pink_vampire> http://9gag.com/gag/aQ8ZWq2
[21:01:28] <DaViruz> it's been a long time since i actually filled a bottle though
[21:01:34] <DaViruz> or bought gas for that matter
[21:01:42] <Valen> dude, find your local industrial gas supplier, they are ripping you off so hard
[21:02:09] <DaViruz> they rip me off too, just on other gases :(
[21:02:14] <Valen> for us its ~$15 or something a month to hire a bottle then ~$20 for the fill
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[21:03:10] <Valen> we used to get ripped hard on rental
[21:03:29] <Valen> but some suppliers are selling the bottles now and just charge for the refills
[21:03:40] <Valen> its like $400 for the tank
[21:04:00] <Valen> it's worth it for us for argon, we don't use much of it so the rental really kills us
[21:04:08] <DaViruz> argon prices really tick me off, filling a 5kg bought bottle is almost as expensive as filling a 50kg rental
[21:04:12] <Valen> argon is like $60 a fill
[21:04:26] <Valen> for 9kg i think
[21:04:48] <Valen> you filling with who you bought the tank off?
[21:04:50] <CaptHindsight> I buy 300cf tanks on craigslist and exchange them mo questions asked with a supplier in Wi
[21:04:52] <DaViruz> i got rid of the 5kg now though and got a 11kg instead
[21:05:00] <CaptHindsight> guess i just found the right place
[21:05:03] <DaViruz> the biggest you can buy here
[21:05:17] <DaViruz> pretty much the same fill price as 5kg
[21:05:30] <DaViruz> Valen: i bought the bottle used
[21:05:43] <Valen> in Australia it was pretty impossible to buy the bottles until about 3 years ago
[21:06:02] <Valen> you couldn't buy them, and then *nobody* would fill them
[21:06:38] <DaViruz> i have a stolen 20kg, but you can't really have that filled..
[21:06:51] <Valen> so
http://allcompressorparts.com.au/products/mufflers-silencers/porous-metal-filter-muffler/porous-metal-filter-muffler-1-4-bsp you think?
[21:07:34] <DaViruz> i have a 1/4" on mine, but i think larger is more effective
[21:07:50] <DaViruz> pressures up to 8.6 bar!
[21:08:12] <DaViruz> if the pressure drop over it gets overly high it could probably become dangerous
[21:08:25] <Valen> yeah I was looking at that
[21:08:40] <Valen> the ones you posted don't specify anything
[21:08:59] <Valen> http://www.clippard.com/downloads/PDF_Documents/Clippard%20Full%20Line%20Catalog/Clippard%20Catalog%20by%20Page%20Number/Fittings%20%26%20Tubing/Page%20326.pdf
[21:09:43] <DaViruz> i just snatched a random picture
[21:10:54] <CaptHindsight> http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/19275412.jpg would this make it louder or quieter?
[21:14:04] <Valen> probably
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[21:30:31] <CaptHindsight> are there any low cost metal powderizers with very low contamination?
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[21:34:05] <CaptHindsight> Inert Gas Atomization or Water atomized
[21:34:56] <CaptHindsight> for micron sized not nanoparticles
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[21:50:29] <skunkworks> sure! (I have no clue what you are talking about)
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[21:54:07] <pink_vampire> http://ustre.am/1qGHt
[21:54:15] <pink_vampire> my machine live!
[21:55:08] <djdelorie> it's very quiet :-)
[21:55:22] <pink_vampire> no mic
[21:55:37] <pink_vampire> what do you think?
[21:55:47] <skunkworks> nice! great work!
[21:56:04] <pink_vampire> thanks :)
[21:56:36] <pink_vampire> about 50% left for that cycle.
[21:57:09] <skunkworks> I have not been paying attention.. what is the mill?
[21:57:10] <Deejay> yay, nice
[21:57:43] <pink_vampire> it's G0704
[21:58:28] <pink_vampire> that is the part
http://i.imgur.com/5F5PRqf.png
[21:59:06] <Deejay> gn8
[21:59:12] <djdelorie> oh look, a hand...
[21:59:39] <pink_vampire> nails..
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[21:59:56] <pink_vampire> djdelorie: watch now
[22:00:25] <djdelorie> oh my
[22:00:52] <pink_vampire> ..
[22:02:07] <pink_vampire> done
[22:02:23] <jdh> did you mill your vise jaws?
[22:03:56] <jdh> what's the tape?
[22:05:43] <pink_vampire> no, I use the tip of them + 123 block as a stopper.
[22:05:54] <pink_vampire> the tape just move the chips.
[22:06:03] <djdelorie> no roughing pass first?
[22:06:37] <pink_vampire> it make roughing of 0.3
[22:06:53] <pink_vampire> then finis of 0.1
[22:07:09] <jdh> crank up the rapids
[22:07:10] <pink_vampire> I know I can go more..
[22:07:21] <djdelorie> it just seems like a not-very-aggressive cycle to me
[22:07:39] <pink_vampire> I know..
[22:08:07] <djdelorie> but then I only recently learned that I need to run my machine pretty much at max speed to meet the *minimum* chip load for my router
[22:08:22] <pink_vampire> just my third 3d machining cutting...
[22:09:03] <djdelorie> nyccnc has some youtube videos on feed and speed optimization...
[22:09:25] <Valen> lotta crap hanging off your tool there
[22:09:26] <pink_vampire> I like to go lite..
[22:09:40] <pink_vampire> Valen: it's a tape..
[22:09:41] <djdelorie> a lite cut can damage your tool by letting it heat up too much
[22:09:44] <Valen> oh ok
[22:09:53] <Valen> still seems not a good plan lol
[22:09:59] <pink_vampire> just to move the chips.
[22:10:03] <djdelorie> you might also work-harden the metal, making it harder to cut
[22:10:06] <Valen> yeah running too slow is bad
[22:10:18] <Valen> look up your tool's feeds and speeds
[22:10:20] <pink_vampire> it's fine.
[22:10:34] <pink_vampire> it's 2024-T3 aluminum..
[22:10:50] <Valen> generally that means you should be hitting it harder ;-P
[22:11:24] <pink_vampire> on steel is right,
[22:11:59] <Valen> rubbing on al leaves a not great finish
[22:12:42] <djdelorie> and you can't just lower the RPM because there's an ideal SFM for each metal too
[22:13:39] <pink_vampire> I know..
[22:13:45] <pink_vampire> the part is just fine.
[22:14:10] <Valen> ypu saud this is your 3rd part yes?
[22:15:26] <pink_vampire> 3rd 3d machining gcode..
[22:15:39] <pink_vampire> but I need to make 6 parts like that.
[22:15:41] * skunkworks needs to learn parametric modeling...
[22:16:05] <pink_vampire> now it's cut the #5
[22:17:06] <pink_vampire> then I need to make the slots, and the drilling.
[22:17:28] <pink_vampire> I wish I have mist.
[22:17:47] <djdelorie> airbrush with wd40 in it?
[22:18:06] <pink_vampire> noooo
[22:18:10] <pink_vampire> stink
[22:18:14] <pink_vampire> done
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[22:21:59] <Valen> flood cooling
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[22:33:53] <pink_vampire> my BF play with the first 3d part.
[22:39:55] <tiwake> anyone do fiberglass repair before?
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[22:40:39] <tiwake> I don't think I mixed in enough hardener in my resin
[22:41:25] <DaViruz> polyester or epoxy?
[22:41:29] <tiwake> its not hardening up, but its also only like 48-50 degrees here
[22:41:51] <tiwake> DaViruz: uh, no idea?
[22:42:07] <pink_vampire> tiwake: i did some fiberglass works.
[22:42:16] <pink_vampire> it's very nice material.
[22:42:28] <tiwake> DaViruz:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/252160170012?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true is what I have
[22:43:03] <pink_vampire> it like 10 drops per oz
[22:43:17] <DaViruz> polyester then
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[22:43:31] <tiwake> not sure what to do
[22:43:35] <DaViruz> it'll probably harden eventually
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[22:44:04] <DaViruz> if you can raise the temperature it will speed up quite a bit
[22:44:14] <enleth> what do manual mill operators do to avoid getting burned by scalding hot steel chips flying everywhere?
[22:44:37] <enleth> full face masks, high collars and long sleeves?
[22:44:42] <tiwake> the nose of my hood is cracked, so I just mixed some and poured it in between the inside fiberglass jacket, and the outside steel shell
[22:44:46] <DaViruz> epoxy is worse, if you screw up the mix you can end up with a sticky mess that never harden and is near impossible to clean
[22:45:28] <DaViruz> but polyester is in my experience pretty forgiving, even if you use way too little hardener it will harden eventually
[22:45:54] <tiwake> what if you use half of what should have been used?
[22:46:15] <DaViruz> should be fine
[22:46:26] <tiwake> (I think I did better than half, but meh)
[22:47:32] <tiwake> hmm
[22:47:52] <tiwake> I think there are heat lamps around
[22:48:40] <DaViruz> how long has it been since you mixed it?
[22:50:02] <Sync> enleth: small PC shield on a mag base
[22:50:56] <robin_sz> woo hoo ...
[22:51:16] <robin_sz> new spindle bearings installed
[22:51:35] <robin_sz> and ... that silly expensive high speed spindle grease IS worth it!
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[22:56:32] <Frank__9> good mornign
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[22:57:59] <Valen> robin_sz: why do you say that specifically?
[22:59:00] <Valen> enleth: *generally* they don't do stuff with the spindle spinning so fast ;-> manual milling was in the 3000RPM is way fast days ;->
[22:59:15] <Valen> its all big face mills and things, not rapid traverses
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[23:00:00] <Valen> yeah your fibreglass will need to heat up to cure, particularly if its not winter resin
[23:00:20] <tiwake> DaViruz: uh, maybe an hour now
[23:00:24] <tiwake> no
[23:00:27] <tiwake> 1/2 hour?
[23:00:37] <Valen> normal polyester is around 30-40 minutes pot life
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[23:00:45] <tiwake> between half hour and an hour
[23:01:10] <Valen> yeah if its cold that is going to be pretty normal
[23:01:23] <Valen> but I'd want to warm it up to ~40C paticularly if its thin
[23:01:38] <tiwake> alright
[23:01:52] <DaViruz> tiwake: if it's still not set efter 24 hours you can begin to worry
[23:02:00] <tiwake> I'm going to tape it up again so it won't seep, and heat it up
[23:02:10] <Valen> not too hot
[23:02:17] <Valen> just warm to the touch
[23:02:23] <tiwake> yeah
[23:02:45] <Valen> if its been this long it should only need like 10 minutes or so at temperature if you were close with your catalyst ratio
[23:03:04] <tiwake> (except I wasent I don't think)
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[23:03:45] <tiwake> I think its maybe 3/4 or 2/3 of the catalyst I should have put in
[23:04:16] <tiwake> I don't think as little as half, but possibly
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[23:12:01] <Simonious> okay... a thing I don't yet know how to do is: set the touch off point up or down from it's current value in LinuxCNC - anyone?
[23:12:06] <Simonious> (err obviously I'm talking about Z, but it should apply to any axis)
[23:12:24] <Simonious> I used to know how to do this on the 3D printer
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[23:15:43] <Simonious> ooo, it looks like linuxCNC has 9 work coordinate systems, handy!
[23:15:48] <tiwake> alright, heatlamp is positioned
[23:16:47] <JT-Shop> Simonious:
http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/g-code/gen05.html
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[23:23:06] <os1r1s> Anyone mess with clearpaths? The motors have an enable +/-, step +/-, dir +/- . I'm connecting to a 7i76. Do I just connect the +?
[23:24:46] <Simonious> Anyone happen to have a feel for an AMD FirePro W5100 vs an AMD FirePro V5900 for CAD performance?
[23:26:15] <_methods> i had a v5900 and had to rma it 3 times
[23:26:25] <_methods> i don't have a v5900 anymore
[23:27:02] <CaptHindsight> one is 800 more than the other
[23:27:21] <CaptHindsight> _methods: did the v's come lose?
[23:27:45] <_methods> fo sho
[23:28:07] <_methods> i have a quadro now on that computer
[23:28:34] <_methods> in amd's defense they were very good about the RMA's
[23:28:43] <_methods> they would send me a card before i sent mine back
[23:29:51] <CaptHindsight> there was bad batch of v's that got into the production chain, they were actually w's that were cut in half
[23:30:21] <_methods> hahh
[23:40:27] <robin_sz> Valen, because with standard grease it got hot as hell at full speed, and withthe high speed spindle grease it runs cool
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[23:41:17] <robin_sz> holding 18,000 for hours now without problems
[23:41:37] <Valen> nice!
[23:41:57] <robin_sz> and it runs 24k without overheating, but it is still a bit wamrer than id like, but it is running in still
[23:44:20] <robin_sz> there is only one trouble with the grease
[23:44:24] <robin_sz> prce :(
[23:44:41] <robin_sz> 50g tube is like £30
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[23:51:56] <Frank__9> hi guys, i was wondering if someone knows how this bearing cage works, i need something similar for my cnc router drive system thanks.
http://imgur.com/FIpvheD
[23:54:47] <malcom2073> Frank__9: Looks like a couple of angle bearings against a stop with a bolt preloading them
[23:54:54] <malcom2073> Near identical to how older car wheel bearings worked
[23:55:01] <malcom2073> (specifically, my trans am haha)
[23:56:20] <Frank__9> thanks for the answer, what's the black thing?
[23:56:28] <Frank__9> that looks like a third bearing
[23:57:55] <malcom2073> Could be
[23:58:12] <Valen> that's pretty cheap really robin_sz
[23:58:13] <malcom2073> To provide more radial support than angle bearings do, since the tension will pull that sideways
[23:58:31] <Valen> i mean I spend more than that breaking tools lol
[23:58:40] <Frank__9> this is where its from, more pics
[23:58:41] <robin_sz> Valen, most expensive grease I've ever bought
[23:58:41] <Frank__9> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/plasma-edm-other-similar-machine-project-log/248120-cnc-posts.html
[23:58:49] <robin_sz> 50g is not a lot
[23:59:12] <malcom2073> Hah yep, they're trailer bearings
[23:59:18] <malcom2073> That black thing is a seal I think
[23:59:29] <malcom2073> cause they're grease packed
