Back
[00:07:41] <CaptHindsight> any one have a new fanglked super high efficiency HVAC unit that actually sucks?
[00:07:50] <CaptHindsight> no air flow
[00:08:03] <CaptHindsight> takes forever to heat or cool
[00:08:41] <CaptHindsight> seems they are like the low flow shower heads and toilets
[00:08:49] -!- maybekoo2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[00:09:12] <CaptHindsight> you just take a longer shower and flush more often than with the older devices
[00:11:26] <witnit> gregcnc: upload you .ini and .hal? hastebin.com
[00:11:35] <witnit> http://hastebin.com
[00:12:10] <gregcnc> I see this is different
[00:12:18] <gregcnc> mine = net spindle-revs <= hm2_5i25.0.encoder.02.position
[00:12:43] <gregcnc> tom_itx = net spindle-position motion.spindle-revs <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.01.position
[00:15:21] <gregcnc> http://hastebin.com/fatomagifo.coffee
[00:16:08] <gregcnc> some junk i was trying is commented out
[00:16:47] -!- eeFuchs [eeFuchs!~huehuehue@2a00:79c0:643:2600:222:15ff:fecf:933d] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:17:16] -!- eFuchs has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[00:17:48] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, i recently had to replace the air unit and went with 'old tech'
[00:18:33] <CaptHindsight> a wise choice
[00:18:59] <Tom_itx> i was told the newer freons require a lot higher pressures than the old r22
[00:19:25] <Tom_itx> and have a narrower 'margin for error' on the charge
[00:19:41] <CaptHindsight> they spent $16 on new units vs asking me to weld the heat exchangers for free
[00:19:46] <CaptHindsight> $16K
[00:20:20] <witnit> gregcnc: setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.scale [AXIS_2]ENCODER_SCALE
[00:20:23] <Sync_> Tom_itx: yes, the r410a will have a higher pressure in the system
[00:20:35] <witnit> encoder #2 for axis #3?
[00:21:01] <Tom_itx> one is spindle one is pendant
[00:21:24] <gregcnc> axes work fine
[00:21:41] <Sync_> but eh, co2 would have an even higher pressure, but it works very nicely
[00:22:32] <Tom_itx> i would expect compressor failure on a higher pressure system sooner than a lower one
[00:23:25] <Sync_> compressor failure usually is just related to high side temperature
[00:23:36] <Sync_> pressure is not too much of a problem
[00:25:14] <CaptHindsight> depends on the design and choice of materials, machining tolerances, quality if bearings and seals
[00:25:23] <CaptHindsight> if/of
[00:25:39] <Sync_> well, I never have killed a compressor due to overpressure
[00:25:45] <Sync_> but always temperature
[00:25:58] <Tom_itx> i went with the same brand as before since it lasted 35+ years
[00:26:21] <Sync_> as long as it is a name brand compressor, there should not be a lot that goes wrong
[00:26:29] <CaptHindsight> heh, the units they replaced were only 10 years old
[00:26:31] <Sync_> but even the china specials run forever
[00:26:31] <Tom_itx> replaced the exterior fan motor once and a capacitor
[00:26:37] <Tom_itx> that's it
[00:26:41] <witnit> gregcnc: can I see your ini?
[00:27:39] <gregcnc> http://hastebin.com/elucipicov.mel
[00:27:41] <Sync_> the neat thing about hermetic units is, you don't need seals :D
[00:28:19] <Sync_> and non hermetic ones have the the leak built in
[00:31:14] <Sync_> and then there are oiling failures
[00:31:32] <CaptHindsight> and their anti-social nature
[00:33:08] <witnit> im not sure what the true solution is gregcnc but I had to move my spindle to the the 4th location on my board reconfigured and was able to do ridgid tapping. For whatever reason I was unable to get it to work on the third location on my card
[00:33:29] <gregcnc> interesting
[00:35:54] <witnit> When I was tryng to tune the machine is was somehow assuming [axis_1] instead of the one I was actually assigning. so I started tuning the motor and noticed there were no effects to the card. I ACCIDENTLY programmed into the axis_2 and it was affecting the axis_1 as stated in the .hal file!
[00:36:31] <witnit> so to save myself alot of figuring out where I went wrong I reran pnconf with xyz+s and everything worked
[00:40:43] <gregcnc> yeha moveing it to the 4th encoder slot worked
[00:40:47] <witnit> In my situation I was using 7i90+7i33
[00:40:48] <witnit> woo!
[00:40:51] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[00:41:22] <witnit> like I said i am unsure why this works but it was my only solution at the time, if you figure out a fix please let me know
[00:41:39] <gregcnc> probably need to ask PCW
[00:42:59] <witnit> yeah I hate buggin him though :P hes always so busy
[00:43:56] <gregcnc> i'm getting a real time error at g76 but I'll be moving this to a different PC soon and i still have to reassemble and configure the ATC.
[00:44:48] <witnit> im glad you didnt have to spend as much time as I did getting good motion, I bet I spent 7 hours getting to the bottom of it all
[00:46:17] <witnit> I can be a bit wreckless though, yesterday I was set back by 6 hours atleast due to slippage on an encoder, it slipped just the tiniest bit and would only happen once every 100 revs or so
[00:47:16] <pcw_home> If this is a pncconf created file there may be a error in the index enable boilerplate
[00:47:30] -!- teepee has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[00:47:30] teepee_ is now known as teepee
[00:48:43] <witnit> frantically googles "boilerplate"
[00:49:28] <witnit> ahh, like template but not
[00:52:10] <gregcnc> witnit thanks for the tip. now I can keep plugging
[00:52:21] <witnit> pcw_home: is it possible that even though my .hal file specifies [axis_1] tuning within my ini [axis_3] is the actual one to be tuned (i have no idea how or why it does this)
[00:52:36] <witnit> gregcnc: yw best of luck!
[00:53:30] <pcw_home> certainly the axis and analog numbers are mixed in the pncconf generated halfile
[00:54:14] <witnit> it as if linux cnc is reading the .ini in a top down fashion not specified by axis_#
[00:55:11] <pcw_home> The hal file gregcnc posted definitely looks funny
[00:55:26] <witnit> i have a suspiciously similar problem
[00:55:55] <witnit> see how he is using encoder 2 for axis3?
[00:55:57] <gregcnc> that was generated from an older version 2.7.2? but I updated to 2.7.4 today and it looked the same
[00:56:06] <witnit> when I tried this, I had serious issues
[01:02:03] <pcw_home> I guess its OK
[01:02:04] <pcw_home> X = enc 0, analog0
[01:02:06] <pcw_home> Z = enc 1, analog1
[01:02:07] <pcw_home> Spindle = enc2,analog5
[01:03:55] <witnit> I could be wrong but it seems like when I did this setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.scale [AXIS_2]ENCODER_SCALE I had problems
[01:04:55] <gregcnc> witnit i spent longer than I'm willing to admit chasing 7i77 I mistyped as 7177 and couldn't see it
[01:05:28] <witnit> ouch
[01:05:48] <witnit> the simple problems are often the hardest to see
[01:10:17] <witnit> with gregcnc his conf SHOULD have worked, It seems like mine should have worked too, but we both did the same thing to fix the problem. Its almost as if the kinematics are expecting an axis and its not there causing some sort of mismatch
[01:22:13] <witnit> Does anyone have a .hal and .ini file containing TWO rotary axis?
[01:52:18] -!- almostworking [almostworking!~almostwor@unaffiliated/almostworking] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:53:12] -!- Loetmichel2 [Loetmichel2!~cylly@p54B1018C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:53:34] -!- Loetmichel has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[01:54:16] -!- DeltaF has quit [Client Quit]
[01:58:51] -!- Roguish has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 44.0.2/20160210153822]]
[02:04:46] -!- morbo__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[02:05:55] <pink_vampire> morning everyone
[02:07:26] -!- AR_ [AR_!~AR@24.238.81.234.res-cmts.sth2.ptd.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:10:00] -!- DRGray_ [DRGray_!~duncangra@2.221.207.213] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:10:12] -!- DRGray has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[02:10:12] DRGray_ is now known as DRGray
[02:14:21] <witnit> morning!
[02:16:47] -!- Camaban has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[02:17:42] -!- Akex_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
[02:26:20] -!- OdinYggd has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[02:26:28] -!- OdinYggd [OdinYggd!~Odin@unaffiliated/odinyggd] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:41:13] -!- teepee has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[02:41:13] teepee_ is now known as teepee
[02:50:46] -!- PetefromTn_ [PetefromTn_!~IceChat9@75-136-59-160.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:56:58] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[03:29:22] -!- Tom_L [Tom_L!~Tom@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
[03:31:30] -!- Tom_L has quit [Client Quit]
[03:33:37] -!- DRGray has quit [Quit: DRGray]
[04:12:51] -!- Tom_itx has quit []
[04:16:14] -!- Tom_itx [Tom_itx!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
[04:24:25] -!- PetefromTn_ has quit [Quit: I'm Outta here!!]
[04:29:49] -!- anth0ny_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[04:37:19] -!- anth0ny__ has quit [Quit: anth0ny__]
[04:37:27] -!- asdfasd has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[04:38:04] -!- anth0ny_ has quit [Client Quit]
[04:53:23] -!- bobo_ [bobo_!63283ad9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.40.58.217] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:17:40] -!- linuxcnc-build has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[05:23:24] -!- AR_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[05:49:37] -!- justanotheruser has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[05:50:28] -!- justanotheruser [justanotheruser!~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:05:06] -!- SpeedEvil has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
[06:05:30] -!- SpeedEvil [SpeedEvil!~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:13:50] -!- justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[06:15:19] -!- ve7it has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[06:44:11] -!- mikeh_ [mikeh_!~mikeh@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[07:06:45] -!- Miner_48er has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[07:25:35] -!- SpeedEvil has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
[07:25:58] -!- SpeedEvil [SpeedEvil!~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil] has joined #linuxcnc
[07:35:47] <Crom> witnit doing 5th axis?
[07:43:03] -!- ink has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[07:50:10] -!- Deejay [Deejay!~Deejay@unaffiliated/dj9dj] has joined #linuxcnc
[07:50:19] <Deejay> moin
[07:56:19] -!- ink [ink!~ink@c-67-180-228-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:36:18] -!- Wolfmetalfab [Wolfmetalfab!~Wolf_@c-69-140-232-48.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:37:22] -!- anonimas1 [anonimas1!~an0n@cust-82-99-104-35.alvsbyn.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:38:52] -!- cpresser_ [cpresser_!~cpresser@ca.rstenpresser.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:38:54] -!- Topy44 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[08:38:54] -!- anonimasu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[08:38:55] -!- Topy44 [Topy44!topy@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::2d:2001] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:38:55] -!- anomynous has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[08:38:55] -!- Wolf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[08:38:55] -!- cpresser has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[08:38:56] Wolfmetalfab is now known as Wolf_
[08:38:56] -!- anomynou1 [anomynou1!~pi@178-55-80-159.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:39:03] -!- teepee has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[08:41:42] -!- maybekoo2 [maybekoo2!~kook@236.152.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:59:50] -!- eventor [eventor!~eventor@p5B25465A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[09:31:03] -!- swarfer [swarfer!~Thunderbi@105.229.141.57] has joined #linuxcnc
[09:47:18] -!- swarfer has quit [Quit: swarfer]
[09:59:12] -!- bobo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[10:02:20] <witnit> Crom: nah I just have a turret which is rotary, side cam which is wrapped rotary and a turret which is linear
[10:18:38] -!- Komzpa has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[10:20:25] -!- kalxas has quit [Changing host]
[10:21:57] -!- Reventlov has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[10:43:20] -!- SEL [SEL!~SEL@net77-43-27-64.mclink.it] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:43:31] -!- SEL has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[10:45:47] -!- Akex_ [Akex_!uid58281@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-idwpocwqlnntdouk] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:56:23] -!- asdfasd [asdfasd!~332332@94.11.117.16] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:05:58] -!- morbo_ [morbo_!~morbo@dyn-int-217-47.hrz.uni-kassel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:15:15] -!- nofxx has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[11:24:22] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[11:27:45] -!- justanotheruser [justanotheruser!~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:42:05] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[11:42:07] -!- teepee has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[11:42:07] teepee_ is now known as teepee
[11:49:22] -!- Duc_mobile [Duc_mobile!~Duc@24.96.23.106] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:52:27] -!- anomynou1 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[11:52:33] -!- Duc has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[11:56:51] -!- morbo_ has quit []
[11:59:52] -!- eeFuchs has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[11:59:57] -!- eFuchs [eFuchs!~huehuehue@2a00:79c0:64c:3000:222:15ff:fecf:933d] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:25:59] <jthornton> oh crap I over slept stupid time change day
[12:43:04] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[12:45:11] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@erina.opennet-initiative.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:45:14] -!- sumpfralle1 [sumpfralle1!~lars@erina.opennet-initiative.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:46:01] -!- sumpfralle1 has quit [Client Quit]
[12:57:02] -!- maybekoo2 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[12:59:57] -!- maybekoo2 [maybekoo2!~kook@236.152.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:23:07] -!- R2E4 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[13:28:35] -!- Jymmm has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[13:32:26] -!- Jymmm [Jymmm!~jymmm@unaffiliated/jymmm] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:50:36] -!- maybekoo2 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[14:08:57] -!- DaPeace1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[14:18:31] -!- DaPeace [DaPeace!~Adium@185.7.17.15] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:35:51] -!- maybekoo2 [maybekoo2!~kook@236.152.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:02:26] -!- theorbtwo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[15:03:11] -!- Nick001 [Nick001!~chatzilla@50.107.166.240] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:16:04] -!- tobias47n9e_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[15:31:38] -!- swarfer [swarfer!~Thunderbi@105.229.141.57] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:38:54] -!- tanayg [tanayg!0e8b7204@gateway/web/freenode/ip.14.139.114.4] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:45:54] <zeeshan> Lazy sunday
[15:45:54] <zeeshan> hooray
[15:49:09] <Nick001> was wondering if anyone was home
[15:49:11] <Duc_mobile> yes it is
[15:49:31] <zeeshan> does home depot sell plastic hardware
[15:49:37] <zeeshan> i vaguely remember seeing some
[15:49:40] <Duc_mobile> I believe so but very limited
[15:49:58] <zeeshan> i need some 10-32 nylon set screws or plastic bolts
[15:50:15] <Duc_mobile> if not lowes has them
[15:51:36] <zeeshan> https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRwRqRp1-OLZqacBiaFcV3ykVLYRzQMH55_WaeXkD4a2MB2iZO1Q
[15:51:41] <zeeshan> im trying to make something that holds this
[15:51:58] <zeeshan> i was thinking of making a hollow rectangular plastic base
[15:52:14] <zeeshan> with set screws on the side to "wedge" it into place to this thing
[15:52:26] <Duc_mobile> what is it mounting on
[15:52:36] <zeeshan> thats what i mtrying to make
[15:52:37] <zeeshan> a mount
[15:52:41] <zeeshan> so i can mount it in the car
[15:52:47] <zeeshan> http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mh82kfYxlIdB3Y-v7IeQH6Q.jpg
[15:52:48] <zeeshan> another image of it
[15:53:20] -!- a_morale has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[15:53:56] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/W7IPG1W.jpg
[15:53:57] <Duc_mobile> why not use the original mounting holes for the fuse block
[15:53:59] -!- swarfer has quit [Quit: swarfer]
[15:54:02] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/fOJBX8s.jpg
[15:54:06] <zeeshan> been wiring up so much stuff!
[15:54:10] <zeeshan> there is no original mounting block
[15:54:25] <zeeshan> https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQL1wo8VlRtI2V6MFJIf8J8D8UaE3c0tlcFT06LLhYWVaRzYqp
[15:54:30] <zeeshan> it mounts directly to the battery
[15:54:38] <zeeshan> the battery is not in the engine bay
[15:54:39] <Duc_mobile> intesting
[15:54:51] <zeeshan> http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/force13b/car/map.jpg
[15:54:53] <zeeshan> it used to be there
[15:55:19] <Duc_mobile> glue to a bracket?
[15:55:25] <zeeshan> hm
[15:55:46] -!- a_morale [a_morale!~quassel@2-227-115-13.ip186.fastwebnet.it] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:55:48] <zeeshan> im worried it wont hold well :/
[15:55:50] <OdinYggd> I've seen adapters to convert a side post battery to a top post
[15:55:59] <OdinYggd> Buy one of these and bolt it onto a plastic block so that it is insulated
[15:56:15] <OdinYggd> Then it can clamp on as if there was a battery under it
[15:56:31] <zeeshan> i dont havve the space
[15:56:40] <zeeshan> i guess i only gave part of the info :P
[15:58:29] <Duc_mobile> massive turbo upgrade I take it
[16:01:12] <tiwake> what would the position be called for figuring out what kind of tooling is needed to make something new, and ordering it?
[16:01:15] <tiwake> if any
[16:01:33] <tiwake> (building my resume)
[16:09:04] <Duc_mobile> manufacturing engineer
[16:09:08] <Duc_mobile> or a machinist
[16:09:46] <tiwake> what is manufacturing engineer?
[16:09:48] <tiwake> heh
[16:10:16] <Duc_mobile> Manufacturing engineering is a discipline of engineering dealing with different manufacturing practices and includes the research, design and development of systems, processes, machines, tools, and equipment.
[16:10:23] <tiwake> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_engineering
[16:10:30] <archivist> a "manufacturing engineer" knows the process, a machinist id the monkey on the shop floor
[16:10:33] <tiwake> ah ok
[16:10:37] <OdinYggd> Manufacturing engineer is the guy that decides how it will be made.
[16:10:41] <OdinYggd> Usually the boss of the machinists
[16:10:46] <OdinYggd> And quite often, an idiot
[16:10:54] <OdinYggd> at least the one where I work is
[16:11:00] <tiwake> ha
[16:11:08] <OdinYggd> He knows how to make stuff and nothing else
[16:11:09] <Duc_mobile> lol
[16:11:21] <archivist> you get promoted to where you can do less damage
[16:11:40] <Duc_mobile> a good machinist and manufacturing engineer will work together to design and build stuff together that functions but can be made cheaper
[16:11:53] <OdinYggd> No, they don't get to design that
[16:11:55] <tiwake> alright, I'll put manufacturing engineering down, cause thats pretty much what I did
[16:12:00] <OdinYggd> The customer's application engineer designs that part
[16:12:12] <OdinYggd> The manufacturing engineer is given a blueprint and has to determine best path from blueprint to finished part
[16:12:27] <OdinYggd> Then gives the machinists tooling and what approach to take so they can build the thing
[16:12:30] <archivist> depends on the company
[16:12:44] <Duc_mobile> I guess in my world we design, help build and make sure the process works at the end
[16:12:52] <OdinYggd> And the project, but normally no the manufacturing engineer doesn't get to design it unless it is in-house or the customer asked him to
[16:13:03] <OdinYggd> Most of the time the customer engineer already specified what they want
[16:13:18] <OdinYggd> Or the maintenance man specified, because I do engineering too after all.
[16:13:44] <tiwake> OdinYggd: donno what customers you have, but almost all my customers needed "help" figuring out what they wanted
[16:13:59] <tiwake> including part design :-/
[16:14:08] <OdinYggd> Corning Inc, Sikorsky Aircraft, Kraft cheese, Mirion imaging systems
[16:14:24] <archivist> some customers have less clue than others
[16:14:33] <tiwake> this is true
[16:14:33] <OdinYggd> Almost everything they send us for orders is already engineered by them we just have to build the thing
[16:14:44] <Duc_mobile> and different field treat manufacturing engineers differenly
[16:14:46] <OdinYggd> Other customers, like the local landscaper who needs to stiffen up a lawnmower frame
[16:15:05] <OdinYggd> Or the gasfield place that just needs a pipe from A to B that can handle 10k PSI and cost less than $5000
[16:15:09] <OdinYggd> They let us do the numbers
[16:15:24] <tiwake> well
[16:15:33] <OdinYggd> Depends on how it is being used mostly, if it has to be part of an engineered system or if it just has to wrok
[16:15:35] <OdinYggd> *work
[16:16:30] <Duc_mobile> or the place that builds the mower will probably have the manufacturing engineer design from the ground up everything including the assebmly line
[16:16:32] <OdinYggd> I have noticed that aerospace, R&D labs, and nuclear tech tend to be customer-specified while other things can go either way
[16:16:34] <zeeshan> OdinYggd: manufacturing engineers do do design
[16:16:44] <zeeshan> fixture design, tool design
[16:16:52] <OdinYggd> That is true, they do that much at least
[16:17:01] <zeeshan> they also input into the product design
[16:17:11] <zeeshan> but really depends on the company :P
[16:17:21] <archivist> I get a clock minus missing parts and have to fill in the blanks
[16:17:27] <tiwake> one of my customers, near space corporation... the guy gives me a drawing, but a lot of times is very difficult to machine so I help him redesign it so it fits his budget
[16:17:46] <zeeshan> Tiwake thats ME work :D
[16:17:49] <tiwake> the guy is a bit of an airhead when it comes to designing parts
[16:17:52] <tiwake> heh
[16:17:57] <zeeshan> you can't blame him/her
[16:17:57] <tiwake> but he tries
[16:17:59] <zeeshan> they dont know the process
[16:18:05] <Duc_mobile> CAD monkeys dont understanding machining usually
[16:18:14] <OdinYggd> ^
[16:18:18] <tiwake> yeah
[16:18:19] <OdinYggd> That was the hardest thing about Sikorsky
[16:18:33] <zeeshan> theres a difference betwen a cad monkey and a design engineer though
[16:18:34] <OdinYggd> Most of their aircraft parts were impossible to make because their engineers had no idea how it would be made
[16:18:34] <archivist> cad monkeys should spend a couple of years actually making stuff
[16:18:41] <zeeshan> cad monkey will mostly be doing detailing
[16:18:45] <OdinYggd> They just shit out a shape and expected you to make it
[16:18:46] <zeeshan> or mods to parts
[16:18:50] <tiwake> thing is he _is_ a mechanical engineer
[16:18:59] <OdinYggd> More than once we had to refuse parts because they would be impossible to fixture for
[16:19:01] <zeeshan> design mech eng will do both
[16:19:03] <tiwake> just without much machining experience evidently
[16:19:13] <zeeshan> compliance and design and cad monkeyism :P
[16:19:14] <OdinYggd> A good engineer of any type considers how it will be built
[16:19:20] <OdinYggd> and designs it to be easy to build and easy to service.
[16:19:31] <Duc_mobile> I love R&D engineers that say it went together on my desk fine in 5 minutes yea I have to make 300 a shift with joe blow idiot
[16:19:31] <OdinYggd> A crap engineer just puts his idea in a cad model and expects everyone else to bend over backwards and deliver it
[16:19:36] <Duc_mobile> fit your shit
[16:20:02] <OdinYggd> Duc_mobile, that's when you build a 3D printer
[16:20:04] <OdinYggd> Put it on his desk
[16:20:11] <OdinYggd> and say here, this will solve all your prototyping problems.
[16:20:15] <zeeshan> lol
[16:20:23] <tiwake> heh
[16:20:23] <OdinYggd> He can sit there watching the slowest of manufacturing processes do its thing
[16:20:26] <tiwake> I love you guys
[16:20:30] <tiwake> I love this channel
[16:20:31] <tiwake> lol
[16:20:47] <tiwake> IRC for life
[16:20:52] <Duc_mobile> not really a prototype problem but difficulty of assembly
[16:21:02] <zeeshan> sometimes floor people bitch too much
[16:21:06] <zeeshan> in my experience :P
[16:21:16] <OdinYggd> Well yeah
[16:21:18] <zeeshan> you gotta draw the line somewhere
[16:21:18] <tiwake> zeeshan: CNC operators?
[16:21:19] <zeeshan> haha
[16:21:22] <zeeshan> no assemblers
[16:21:25] <tiwake> ah
[16:21:26] <Duc_mobile> Ive made R&D guys try to build stuff on the line and its amazing how designs change
[16:21:31] <zeeshan> theyre whining about having to torque a bolt from the back side
[16:21:35] <OdinYggd> cause if its a pain in the butt to build nobody is going to want to do it
[16:21:38] <OdinYggd> lol
[16:21:39] <zeeshan> im like "are you kidding me"
[16:21:45] <zeeshan> let me show you how its done.
[16:21:52] <zeeshan> then they be quiet
[16:22:05] <zeeshan> an engineer who actually builds shit is a dangerous combo :)
[16:22:20] <tiwake> yeah
[16:22:22] <zeeshan> but 65% of the time they have a good point
[16:22:24] <Duc_mobile> yes it is
[16:22:30] <OdinYggd> Indeed it is.
[16:22:39] <OdinYggd> The people making it have no excuse
[16:22:46] <OdinYggd> Cause the guy who designed it could put it together in his sleep
[16:22:52] <zeeshan> as harsh as this sounds
[16:22:56] <Duc_mobile> and machine it sometimes
[16:23:03] <OdinYggd> Thats a thing too
[16:23:08] <zeeshan> sometimes there are things we make decisions on in the design process well knowingly that it'll be a pain in the ass for the assembler
[16:23:13] <zeeshan> but its the cheapest solution
[16:23:14] <OdinYggd> CAD operators should have a manditory semester of manual machining
[16:23:16] <Sync_> a friend of mine just got a part where the engineers clearly did not know how to DFM
[16:23:17] <OdinYggd> Manual, not CNC
[16:23:20] <zeeshan> cause their time vs cost of fancy tooling
[16:23:22] <OdinYggd> Because all CNC does is automates manual operations
[16:23:27] <zeeshan> or even cost of redesign is not economical
[16:23:47] <tiwake> Sync_: DFM?
[16:23:51] <zeeshan> design for manufacture
[16:23:54] <tiwake> ah
[16:24:04] <OdinYggd> Depends on the batch size too though
[16:24:11] <tiwake> very much depends
[16:24:11] <Duc_mobile> thats why they should have a good relationship with the machinist. Give and take on design
[16:24:22] <OdinYggd> If its only a small batch, it isn't so bad even if it has problems getting together
[16:24:33] <OdinYggd> Making a few thousand a year, if it doesn't go together easy good luck getting product rate
[16:24:37] <zeeshan> hehe
[16:24:47] <Sync_> http://sledder.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/36-Summit-T3.jpg that front hub thing
[16:24:58] <Sync_> is a 5 axis part with a 90° head
[16:25:10] <Sync_> the stock is forged
[16:25:15] <tiwake> 1000+ parts in a year... that is a very different process than 10 a year XD
[16:25:19] <Sync_> all of the holes are in weird angles
[16:25:24] <zeeshan> its a 3 axis part :P
[16:25:25] <OdinYggd> The shiny part on the end?
[16:25:27] <zeeshan> with a lot of setups!!!!!!
[16:25:40] <Sync_> yes OdinYggd
[16:25:43] <Duc_mobile> yea
[16:25:45] <Sync_> yeah fuck that zeeshan
[16:26:06] <Sync_> access is an issue as you can't get to the inner taper
[16:26:20] <tiwake> oh gosh that part
[16:26:21] <Duc_mobile> at least most of surfaces dont need to be within 2 thou
[16:26:23] <OdinYggd> The upper and lower holes are not lined up?
[16:26:29] <Sync_> of course not
[16:26:35] <OdinYggd> Yeah that would suck to make then
[16:27:00] <Sync_> the contour is actually not machined, it is forged but the holes are what are to be machined
[16:27:01] <OdinYggd> I was thinking a trunnion style 4 axis could give the 90 degree flip it needs between contour and mounting, but if the holes don't line up the tooling won't reach the middle hole
[16:27:07] <Sync_> yep
[16:27:08] <Sync_> :D
[16:27:18] <Sync_> also the upper hole is smaller than the bottom one
[16:27:25] <OdinYggd> Even more damnit
[16:27:39] <OdinYggd> How about coming up from the bottom?
[16:27:40] <Duc_mobile> thats when you become friends with the tooling reps
[16:27:44] <OdinYggd> The toe of it interferes with the middle hole?
[16:27:47] <Sync_> yes
[16:27:54] <Sync_> also it has a taper in the up direction
[16:27:59] <Sync_> so you cannot machine it from the bottom
[16:28:02] <OdinYggd> My boss would love you if you asked him to quote that for you
[16:28:09] <OdinYggd> cause he'd not realize that and quote it anyway
[16:28:15] <OdinYggd> only to find out we don't have a machine that can get that middle hole
[16:28:24] <tiwake> lol
[16:28:39] <OdinYggd> He's been doing that a lot lately, taking jobs that we don't actually have the capacity for.
[16:28:42] <Sync_> well in the end it only needs two custom tools and an angle head
[16:28:44] <OdinYggd> I already bitched him out for it last week
[16:29:01] <OdinYggd> Had to sawzall a hole in the wall to give one of the lathes clearance for a longer through-spindle part
[16:29:06] <Sync_> long reach taper reamer for the tang on the rear and a stubby reamer for the middle hole
[16:29:08] <OdinYggd> I was like why is this even on our floor
[16:29:35] <tiwake> that part looks like it should be two parts... heh
[16:29:44] <OdinYggd> Its a forging though
[16:29:48] <Sync_> 2 parts would be weaker and heavier
[16:29:51] <OdinYggd> How would you attach two pieces and retain that strength
[16:29:59] <Sync_> it is a suspension component, so both matters
[16:30:00] <OdinYggd> Weldments would have a weak spot
[16:30:12] <Sync_> you could machine them, weld and heat treat
[16:30:13] <Sync_> but F that
[16:30:18] <tiwake> magical thing, just like the magic machine thats needed to make it one piece
[16:30:24] <OdinYggd> Could always 3D print it
[16:30:28] <OdinYggd> SpaceX has a machine that can do it
[16:30:33] <OdinYggd> But sky high costing
[16:30:39] <enleth> OdinYggd: couldn't agree more on having CNC operators do some manual machining sometime
[16:30:41] <Sync_> tiwake: it is not magic to machine, just annoying
[16:30:51] <OdinYggd> Not CNC operators, CAD operators
[16:30:54] -!- mikeh_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[16:30:55] <Duc_mobile> its a good challenge
[16:30:55] -!- bobo_ [bobo_!63283ad9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.40.58.217] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:30:55] <enleth> That too
[16:30:59] <OdinYggd> I've made oneoff parts on a CNC before
[16:31:12] <OdinYggd> Had a 3 axis movement on a 4 axis part
[16:31:15] <Sync_> http://www.remmel.de/cms/tl_files/spannen/Werkzeugspannung%20auf%20Fraes/winkelkopf_schmale_bauform.jpg it needs one of those
[16:31:16] <archivist> I would whack the designer and tilt the inner hole a bit to make it easier
[16:31:17] <OdinYggd> That was fun to program
[16:31:21] -!- mikeh_ [mikeh_!~mikeh@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:31:25] <enleth> I've already seen some schools try to teach machining with no manual machines at all, that's a disaster
[16:31:30] <Sync_> archivist: that does not work
[16:31:36] <OdinYggd> Maybe, maybe not.
[16:31:37] <Sync_> that will mess with the suspension geometry
[16:31:42] <OdinYggd> The newer 'manual' machines are all fly by wire.
[16:31:45] <Duc_mobile> they dont understand flow of operations then
[16:31:57] <OdinYggd> They use a conversational CNC with handwheel inputs for manual control
[16:32:14] <archivist> Sync_, nope you just rotate around the current pivot point, identical
[16:32:14] <OdinYggd> But on a real manual machine you can actually feel the tool working, and adjust your settings accordingly till it cuts right
[16:32:25] <OdinYggd> You don't get that with one of the new flybywire machines
[16:32:36] <enleth> OdinYggd: you mean, glorified MPGs disguised as "handwheels"?
[16:32:53] <Sync_> archivist: nope, as it moves the axis when you turn the skis
[16:33:05] <OdinYggd> Whatever they are. I always thought they were just a rotary incremental encoder with a bit of a clicking mechanism on it so it wouldn't coast stupidly long
[16:33:17] <archivist> the ball stays in the same place
[16:33:35] <enleth> One more reason I'm happy with the machine I have, it's a factory-made CNC but the handwheels engage mechanically when needed
[16:33:42] <OdinYggd> Yeah.
[16:34:09] <OdinYggd> I like the old Bridgeport + Prototrak combo because you still had a shaft connection for manual control, but then could fold up the handles on the wheels and use CNC control for contouring
[16:34:15] <OdinYggd> I've seen it in 2 axis and 3 axis versions
[16:34:37] <enleth> OdinYggd: I've got exactly this in a Bridgeport Series 1 MDI
[16:34:47] <OdinYggd> what controller does it use?
[16:34:49] <enleth> Heidenhain control and actual mechanical handwheels
[16:34:51] <enleth> TNC 131
[16:34:55] <Duc_mobile> those came with hand wheels?
[16:35:01] <enleth> Duc_mobile: yep.
[16:35:06] <Sync_> ah yeah, that does not work due to the movement range of the balljoint archivist
[16:35:08] <OdinYggd> The ones I work with are genuine bridgeport knee mills retrofitted to use Prototrak M2 controllers and ballscrews
[16:35:13] <Sync_> it is a tricky thing
[16:35:25] <OdinYggd> ~20 year old i386 powered PCs controlling them
[16:35:28] <Sync_> I agree it should be a bit more tilted to get it right, but there is a reason why it is that way
[16:35:32] <OdinYggd> They take 30 pin SIMMs and run MSDOS 6.22
[16:35:34] <Duc_mobile> lucky I got a boss5 that I wish had them
[16:35:40] <enleth> OdinYggd: mine is not retrofitted, it's a gennuine factory configuration
[16:35:43] <OdinYggd> Nice.
[16:35:49] <archivist> Sync_, one rotated the other part so it matches to get the rang
[16:35:56] -!- Roguish [Roguish!~chatzilla@c-50-143-183-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:35:56] <enleth> Same iron as Series 1 CNC, but that did not have handwheels
[16:36:06] <enleth> MDI is, I think, a very rare version of Series 1
[16:36:12] <OdinYggd> Interesting
[16:36:17] <OdinYggd> That is one nice thing about the M2.
[16:36:31] <OdinYggd> Because its a 90s vintage i386 PC, I can usually find spare mainboards in people's attics
[16:36:38] <OdinYggd> The monitors failing is a problem in itself though
[16:36:50] <OdinYggd> Originally they had 8" CRT monitors in them from old point of sale equipment
[16:36:54] <enleth> Problem with the MDI version is, it only has one servo drive, so no arcs or even diagonals - but I can fix that easily. It would be much harder to give proper handwheels to the full-fledged CNC version
[16:37:03] <OdinYggd> Said monitors are now hard to get, and I haven't' found an LCD suitable to replace them
[16:37:15] <OdinYggd> Ah. These have 2 axis servo, and a 3 axis version exists
[16:37:20] <OdinYggd> M2 and M3
[16:37:37] <Sync_> huh, most of the monitors are easy to replace by lcds
[16:37:48] <Sync_> the only issue is the video signal, but that's fairly uninvolved to convert
[16:38:05] <enleth> Series 1 CNC is 3 axis and all the axis drivetrains are absolutely identical as mine, the difference is only in the cabinet containing more servo drives
[16:38:34] <tiwake> alright, I'm taking off
[16:38:34] <Duc_mobile> enleth: do you have servos or steppers?
[16:38:38] <tiwake> TTFN
[16:38:58] <tiwake> as always, love the discussions here :3
[16:39:15] <OdinYggd> usually they are sync_ but for some reason monitors small enough to fit inside the box are really hard to find
[16:39:19] <enleth> Duc_mobile: servos of course. SEM MT30H4-44
[16:39:37] <OdinYggd> I did try one that I found online that was around 6", only to discover that despite having a VGA connector it was not compatible with msdos
[16:39:47] <enleth> with a shitty old Bosch Z1-A15 drive
[16:39:54] <OdinYggd> The machine's bios displays, and then the screen blanks out once dos loads
[16:40:01] <Duc_mobile> man I was hoping someone would want my old steppers LOL
[16:40:04] <enleth> (or something like that, I may have mixed up the drive P/N)
[16:40:17] <OdinYggd> yet I can send image to it from a laptop no problem, and a regular desktop monitor works fine with the machine control- it just doesn't fit the case
[16:40:51] <Sync_> ah, you are using one with a vga input
[16:40:56] <Sync_> yeah, I just made my own controller
[16:41:05] <enleth> Best thing about factory CNC iron from bridgeport - the knee has a recess for the Y motor so that it points inwards, and the X motor hangs off the knee, not the table
[16:41:19] <enleth> That's because X axis ballscrew is stationary, the nut rotates
[16:42:12] <enleth> Actually the nut *is* the toothed belt pulley
[16:42:17] <enleth> they pressed one into the other
[16:42:43] <OdinYggd> The bridgeports I work with also have the Y motor in a recess in the knee
[16:42:49] <OdinYggd> But the X motor sticks out off the end of the table
[16:43:09] <OdinYggd> Nut cartridge is bolted in place to a casting on the table bottom, and the screw runs through it like on a manual bridgeport
[16:43:13] <Sync_> enleth: it's a neat and compact solution
[16:43:24] <OdinYggd> That is a neat solution, but I haven't seen a bridgeport using it yet
[16:43:26] <Sync_> the only annoying thing is that you need to figure out a compact bearing scheme
[16:43:28] <Duc_mobile> did your come with the 2:! yet
[16:43:39] <Duc_mobile> 2:1 pulley setup I mean
[16:45:20] <Duc_mobile> Finally was able to fit the rotary table on the mill to see how it fit
[16:45:22] <Duc_mobile> http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd465/shefron/Machinery/Boss5%20servo/20160313_114108_zpswnvyovfb.jpg
[16:46:18] <Sync_> that's not too bad
[16:47:00] <Duc_mobile> nah 17inches before I add a 6inch chuck
[16:47:11] <Duc_mobile> I may need to build a extention fixture plate
[16:49:40] <enleth> OdinYggd: some disassembly, cleaning and reassembly photos, lots of mechanical details if you're interested:
https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/Bridgeport https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/Bridgeport%202015-07-29 https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/Bridgeport-2015-08-25
[16:50:47] <enleth> Sync_: neat and compact is one thing, the other is that you don't have a fucking banana for a machine table after several decades of the motor and stuff pulling the end of the 42" table down
[16:51:00] <OdinYggd> that is neat, but it isn't a standard bridgeport table :)
[16:51:09] <Sync_> I don't think that it would bananarize a machine table
[16:51:11] <OdinYggd> Looks like the factory CNC bridgeports had a few modifications
[16:51:14] <OdinYggd> it does Sync_
[16:51:33] <OdinYggd> I was told by a wise old machinist to always put the bridgeport table back near the middle of its travel at the end of the day
[16:51:36] <enleth> Sync_: that's the prime reason for avoiding very old maual bridgeports fitted with X power feed
[16:51:43] <OdinYggd> because leaving it hanging off one end, the weight of it will sag the table till it is bowed
[16:51:54] <OdinYggd> You wouldn't think the cast iron would move that much, but give it a decade or two and it most certainly does
[16:52:16] <Sync_> I only heard that the torque it applies will force the oil out of one side of the slide
[16:52:18] <enleth> OdinYggd: quite a few modifications indeed, starting with the ram being rigid, but the table is non-standard too
[16:52:23] <Sync_> so you should put it in the middle
[16:52:29] <Duc_mobile> Not a fan of the table style. Mine is the same way but its a pain to make a enclosure for
[16:52:31] <enleth> there are coolant collection channels and so on
[16:52:46] <OdinYggd> Yeah. Bridgeport took the standard layout and improved on it for a dedicated CNC machine
[16:52:53] <OdinYggd> That isn't your normal knee mill with a CNC tacked on
[16:53:07] <Sync_> I have measured our BP in the shop with the feed and it is now bowed
[16:53:11] <Sync_> and it is now 40 years old
[16:53:12] <OdinYggd> The standard mills i'm used to have the same notch for the y axis power feed, but the drive for the X sticks out off one end
[16:53:12] <Sync_> so eh
[16:53:32] <enleth> Duc_mobile: you mean the CNC table? Yeah, they could have it made a little less curvy and angle-y at the edges
[16:53:57] <enleth> OdinYggd: and that's why I'm so happy I got it for scrap value
[16:54:00] <Duc_mobile> enleth: you may need to grind a channel up from for the coolant to run to both sides.
[16:54:19] <OdinYggd> A lot of 1980s CNCs are going for scrap
[16:54:23] <enleth> Best of both wordls really, CNC and manual
[16:54:37] <OdinYggd> The parts for an OEM repair are becoming hard to get, and few maintenence people know how to properly take care of them
[16:54:45] <OdinYggd> That knowledge was lost to corporate reshuffling and employee turnover
[16:54:48] <enleth> It is a little worn, but most of the original chrome plating on the ways is still there
[16:55:01] <OdinYggd> For a DIY'er, you can get a fully functional machine for scrap price
[16:55:09] <OdinYggd> because its just a bit old and few people know how to use it
[16:55:12] <enleth> OdinYggd: I'd say an old bridgeport is still easier to get parts for than old anything else
[16:55:18] <OdinYggd> Very much so.
[16:55:25] <OdinYggd> Hardinge owns Bridgeport.
[16:55:33] <OdinYggd> Their factory is across the train tracks from where I live
[16:55:49] <enleth> I need to replace or remachine the whole varidrive and I could get a full set of brand new parts if I had the money
[16:55:50] <OdinYggd> They still make new bridgeports using the same casting patterns as the ones made in the 1960s
[16:55:58] <OdinYggd> 2J head?
[16:56:15] <enleth> 2J2, downward pointing motor, longer shaft
[16:56:15] <JT-Shop> go across the tracks and get me a couple of way seals for my CHNC
[16:56:18] <OdinYggd> There's a plastic bushing in the varidrive that takes up wear between shaft and pully
[16:56:31] <enleth> But the belt pulley havles are identical
[16:56:39] <OdinYggd> If you allow this to wear out, the pulley sheaves start to slop on the shaft and wears a groove in the shaft
[16:56:56] <OdinYggd> Its pretty straightforward to pull the motor and replace the bushings to keep it nice and tight
[16:56:57] <enleth> There are but that did not stop the stationary pulley half from gouging a sizeable gouge into the mtor shaft
[16:57:03] <OdinYggd> Yep
[16:57:12] <OdinYggd> Most of the 2J heads I've had apart have that.
[16:57:16] <enleth> I had it apart already and seen the damage in detail
[16:57:21] <Duc_mobile> Just dont get rid of the Variable head when you switch to a VFD control
[16:57:28] <enleth> Duc_mobile: I don't intend to
[16:57:29] <Duc_mobile> you lose alot of torque in different ranges
[16:57:32] <OdinYggd> Some of them are so deep that even new bushings won't take up the slack
[16:57:37] <enleth> Duc_mobile: exactly
[16:57:37] <Duc_mobile> major mistake I made
[16:57:45] <OdinYggd> Wh
[16:57:53] <OdinYggd> It should be the back gear providing low end torque, not the varidrive
[16:58:02] <Duc_mobile> throw a encoder on the spindle and make the machine wait till the spindle is at speed
[16:58:09] <OdinYggd> Ah.
[16:58:14] <OdinYggd> I was going to ask how did you deal with the gear ratio changing
[16:58:18] <Sync_> Duc_mobile: servo spindle.
[16:58:24] <enleth> OdinYggd: I intend to repair the motor shaft by welding and machining to a *bigger* size than original, then replace the bushings with a repair kit and bore the pulleys to the new shaft size
[16:58:24] <Duc_mobile> back gear is the low end grunt but still more torque in high
[16:58:27] <Sync_> all of dem torques at 0 speed
[16:58:29] <OdinYggd> Normally a VFD needs a fixed gear ratio between motor and spindle
[16:58:40] <OdinYggd> But that is a good solution, making the VFD run closed loop against a spindle encoder
[16:58:58] <OdinYggd> Then you have the best of both worlds, cause you can adjust the varidrive for torque or speed and have the electronics automatically compensate
[16:59:06] <Duc_mobile> yep
[16:59:12] <enleth> OdinYggd: this is also what I'm planning
[16:59:35] <enleth> I've got a PID-capable VFD, so it's a matter of mounting an encoder on the spindle gear
[16:59:55] <OdinYggd> The Mitsubishi VFDs I use have inputs for stuff like that
[16:59:58] <enleth> There was one guy who did that nicely with hall sensors made for car transmissions
[17:00:00] <OdinYggd> But I would be on my own to make the PID logic
[17:00:37] <OdinYggd> Piece of cake to do really, attiny MCU reads an off the shelf quadrature encoder and does the math to generate a 0-5v speed signal
[17:00:40] <enleth> FYI "INVT" brand chinese VFDs appear to not be a complete pile of shit
[17:00:43] <enleth> pretty capable and all
[17:00:50] -!- Nick001 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[17:01:15] <enleth> could use more than one relay output on the 2.2kW model though, but for the price I can't really complain
[17:01:54] <Duc_mobile> can you use the original motor has a AC servo with the encoder on the spindle?
[17:02:06] <enleth> Not with this VFD, no
[17:02:11] <OdinYggd> The only VFD equipped bridgeport I've got is an older J head model with only a DRO, and runs an open loop VFD with a potentiometer control
[17:02:13] <Duc_mobile> at times mine bogs down and I would like the system to up the voltage to the VFD
[17:02:19] <OdinYggd> The dial on the VFD is only accurate if the belt is in the middle setting
[17:02:31] <enleth> Duc_mobile: do you have a vector VFD?
[17:02:33] <OdinYggd> Runs from 25Hz to 120Hz though
[17:02:42] <Duc_mobile> enleth: I have a hitachi VFD
[17:02:50] <OdinYggd> Vector drive though
[17:02:58] <enleth> Duc_mobile: see if it's a U/F control or vector control
[17:03:02] <OdinYggd> The VFD fudges the voltage/current output to each phase coil to maintain torque at low RPM
[17:03:12] <OdinYggd> Mitsubishi D720 and D740 support this
[17:03:16] <OdinYggd> but I've never tried using it
[17:03:16] <enleth> Duc_mobile: a vector control VFD should sense that the motor is bogged down and compensate
[17:03:27] <enleth> Takes some tuning, but it's not rocket science
[17:03:37] <Duc_mobile> enleth: Can I make linuxcnc control it by the 7i77 card?
[17:03:41] <OdinYggd> Mitsubishi claims to be self-tuning with it
[17:03:52] <Sync_> most modern vector vfds will autotune, but that's why I'm saying to use a servo
[17:04:22] <Sync_> without direct angle feedback they have problems developing torque down low
[17:04:29] <Duc_mobile> Sync_: isnt a servo just a AC motor with a encoder?
[17:04:35] <enleth> Duc_mobile: a VFD? I'm pretty sure you could
[17:04:43] <OdinYggd> No, Duc_mobile
[17:04:47] <enleth> Duc_mobile: most machine servos are DC
[17:04:51] <OdinYggd> Any motor with an encoder
[17:04:59] <OdinYggd> I've worked with far more permanent magnent DC motors
[17:04:59] <enleth> Many even brushed, funnily enough
[17:05:09] <Duc_mobile> so a AC servo it would be
[17:05:10] <OdinYggd> but a lot of spindles use AC motors
[17:05:26] <Duc_mobile> all of mine are yaskawa AC servo right now
[17:05:26] -!- Valduare [Valduare!~nsstratto@97-94-35-98.static.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:05:29] <Valduare> hi guys
[17:05:33] <OdinYggd> Brushed and brushless DC, AC, it just has to turn when it should and stop when it should, let the encoder and VFD do the rest
[17:05:54] <Valduare> just took apart a large copy machine, got bunch of smooth rods, couple 5phase stepper motors and tons of switches and nice cable management clips etc
[17:05:58] <Sync_> it is Duc_mobile, but that is all the magic
[17:05:59] <enleth> Duc_mobile: frankly, I'd put a brushless servo on the pulley end of the motor shaft and just take care to not power both the servo and the original motor at the same time
[17:06:45] <enleth> (brushless to avoid having the brushes eaten away when running on the AC motor)
[17:07:51] <Duc_mobile> so you should be able to use linuxcnc to control it has a velocity closed loop then with the hitachi VFD, bridgeport AC motor and a encoder on the shaft
[17:08:07] <enleth> yeah, that should work
[17:08:11] <OdinYggd> Easily as long as the VFD has an input that accepts the outputs available on linuxcnc
[17:08:27] <OdinYggd> Mitsubishi VFDs as well, voltage or current control are available
[17:08:29] <Sync_> you could also just replace the spindle motor with a servo all together
[17:08:31] <Duc_mobile> yea currently using -/+10v
[17:08:35] <enleth> OdinYggd: something like 0-20mA or 0-10V shoul be on most VFDs
[17:08:39] <OdinYggd> Yep
[17:08:39] <Sync_> you don't really need both
[17:08:50] <enleth> my chink has 0-10V/0-20mA I/O
[17:08:53] <OdinYggd> 1980s CNCs were usually 0-15v in my experience.
[17:08:53] <Duc_mobile> actually only 0-10v I think
[17:09:10] <OdinYggd> I don't remmeber what the upper limit on the Mitsu D720 is, but I know it responds nicely to 0-5v from an attiny MCU
[17:09:16] <OdinYggd> I built a thermostat for a big fan with one
[17:09:17] <Duc_mobile> nothing orignal left in mine except for the spindle motor
[17:09:20] <enleth> Duc_mobile: so one of the analog outputs on the 7i77 should be able to control that
[17:09:51] <Duc_mobile> enleth: may need to try that. ONly using linear scaled output right now from the 7i77
[17:10:00] <OdinYggd> I'd keep the spindle motor though and just drive it with a VFD and encoder for closed loop
[17:10:09] <OdinYggd> Servos get expensive when they get big
[17:10:29] <OdinYggd> and if you aren't required to make the tiny movements needed for positioning, a regular motor will do the job just as well
[17:10:57] -!- kalxas has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
[17:11:23] <enleth> Duc_mobile: also, make well sure your VFD can set a minimum and maximum frequency *and* configure a mapping from the 0-10V output
[17:11:36] <enleth> Duc_mobile: to avoid running the motor below 20% or so of the original frequency
[17:12:09] <OdinYggd> 20% is the guideline?
[17:12:23] <OdinYggd> I usually go by sound, and more often than not the motors start sounding terrible below half their rated frequency
[17:12:40] <OdinYggd> 25-30Hz typical minimum for a motor that wasn't designed with inverter duty in mind
[17:13:01] <Duc_mobile> I will have to look into the manual
[17:13:05] <enleth> Duc_mobile: I'm more concerned about cooling
[17:13:16] <Sync_> OdinYggd: my bed drawer is filled with high power servos, so eh
[17:13:19] <enleth> Duc_mobile: the bridgeport motors have integrated fans that pull air through the head
[17:13:24] <enleth> ah
[17:13:25] <enleth> OdinYggd: ^
[17:13:33] <Duc_mobile> yep fan is working good
[17:13:48] <enleth> So below about 20% of the full motor speed it just doesn't suck any air anymore
[17:13:49] <OdinYggd> Yeah they do. iirc they were TEFC motors
[17:14:01] <enleth> And that makes them overheat
[17:14:03] <OdinYggd> The older J-heads were TENC though
[17:14:06] <OdinYggd> They didn't have a fan
[17:14:14] <enleth> More than 20% and it's OK
[17:14:25] <OdinYggd> Depends on the load though, pretty significantly
[17:14:54] <OdinYggd> the airflow produced by the fan is not linear, at low RPM it produces only a tiny fraction of the airflow produced at rated RPM
[17:15:05] <enleth> Anyway, I set the limits to 10-60Hz and mapped the full 0-10V input range to within those limits
[17:15:28] <OdinYggd> To really get the full range out of a motor you'd have to modify it to use an external blower for cooling
[17:15:37] <OdinYggd> That way the blower runs at full RPM all the time, while the motor's own fan is removed
[17:15:48] <OdinYggd> Some of the old school DC spindles I've serviced had that setup
[17:16:21] <OdinYggd> 30 HP DC spindle from the 1970s had a squirrel cage blower on a 120v power connection just to push air through it for cooling
[17:17:15] <Sync_> even today they still do
[17:17:17] -!- FloppyDisk [FloppyDisk!~M4500@c-50-152-222-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:18:21] <Duc_mobile> I need more power for the spindle on the bridgeport
[17:20:09] -!- TurBoss [TurBoss!~jauria@149.147.135.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:20:14] <TurBoss> Hi
[17:20:32] <TurBoss> How i can setup 2 pieces in the workbench?
[17:20:41] <TurBoss> and run the same file?
[17:21:26] <TurBoss> G54 G55 ...???
[17:22:15] <evil_ren> yeah thats one way
[17:23:25] <evil_ren> other ways are going to depend on the cam software being used
[17:24:02] <TurBoss> i can get G54 but no G55 G56 etc...
[17:24:06] <TurBoss> i'm on 2.7.4
[17:24:19] <evil_ren> you have to set the zeros independently
[17:24:34] <TurBoss> how?
[17:25:15] <evil_ren> theres an active gcode box, make sure G54 is active, if not type G54 into the MDI console
[17:25:27] <evil_ren> then set zero for first part
[17:25:38] <evil_ren> type G55 into MDI console
[17:25:44] <evil_ren> set zero for second part
[17:26:35] <evil_ren> i could be wrong about details i dont have axis up in froint of me, you can maybe use a dropdown to indicate which workspace you are zero'ing
[17:27:24] <TurBoss> thx I'm testing
[17:27:30] <evil_ren> fyi, g53 is machine space, and the g5x workspaces are all relative to that
[17:27:56] <evil_ren> if you want to do a movement in g53 coordinates, you have to put g53 in every line you want to move in machine space
[17:28:25] <OdinYggd> Some machines have a cancel work coordinate gcode though, which resets it to absolute positioning- relative to the home locations
[17:28:38] <evil_ren> its not modal, like the workspaces, for those you just have to type the workspace (like G54, G55) and it sticks
[17:28:51] <OdinYggd> But normally G54-G59 are work coordinates
[17:29:36] <evil_ren> yeah youre starting to get into the inconsistent features and implimentation side of things, with multiple workspaces
[17:29:59] <evil_ren> pretty linuxcnc handles it fine, i used to use them for stuff
[17:30:10] <evil_ren> ^sure
[17:36:27] cpresser_ is now known as cpresser
[17:36:52] <enleth> OdinYggd: yeah, adding a separate blower is an option, although I'd have to find a very flat radial blower to fit under the fan cover
[17:37:03] <TurBoss> Axis has a gui button to set the regular offsets but I can get it working
[17:37:16] <enleth> and possibly cut off the shaft stub that mounts the original fan
[17:37:19] <TurBoss> only seems to work for G54
[17:37:42] <gregcnc> but how often will you be running at 10Hz at high torque with high duty cycle?
[17:37:46] <TurBoss> what i'm doing wrong?
[17:38:25] <Duc_mobile> TurBoss: does your Gcode have the G54, or G55 for each part
[17:39:01] <TurBoss> none of them
[17:39:25] <TurBoss> i have the linux cnc example
[17:39:38] <OdinYggd> The mastercam postprocessors I used always left a blank line after the mode setting line, which was for the operator to put in what part offset to use
[17:39:57] <OdinYggd> It was possible to stitch together multiple programs into one big one by giving them each a different offset and having all the tools needed in the carousel
[17:40:15] <gregcnc> the program must call G54 then the code and G55 and the code
[17:40:28] <TurBoss> ok
[17:40:31] <TurBoss> thx
[17:41:25] <gregcnc> So you can use sub programs or just copy it all beneath the first and in place of g54 use g55
[17:41:29] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[17:41:56] <gregcnc> there are many ways to attack this the docs do a good job explaining
[17:42:53] <TurBoss> ok i got it
[17:46:44] -!- swarfer [swarfer!~Thunderbi@105.229.141.57] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:01:40] -!- eventor has quit []
[18:03:49] -!- swarfer has quit [Quit: swarfer]
[18:04:26] -!- nos__ [nos__!~nos@37-33-30-2.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:07:27] -!- nos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[18:08:48] -!- Nick001 [Nick001!~chatzilla@50-32-119-186.adr01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:09:12] -!- chris_99 [chris_99!~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:10:54] -!- Nick001_ [Nick001_!~chatzilla@50.107.132.225] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:13:16] -!- Nick001 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[18:13:19] Nick001_ is now known as Nick001
[18:15:30] -!- Nick001-shop [Nick001-shop!~chatzilla@50.107.136.184] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:24:56] -!- chris_99 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[18:36:34] -!- curious_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[18:37:49] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[18:38:00] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[18:45:37] -!- teepee has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[18:45:37] teepee_ is now known as teepee
[18:54:29] -!- andypugh [andypugh!~andypugh@cpc14-basl11-2-0-cust1010.20-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:56:52] -!- FloppyDisk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[18:58:07] -!- motioncontrol [motioncontrol!~io@host168-74-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:01:52] -!- ve7it [ve7it!~LawrenceG@S010648f8b3c3bc3b.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:27:24] -!- SEL [SEL!~SEL@net77-43-27-64.mclink.it] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:27:42] -!- SEL has quit [Client Quit]
[19:33:27] -!- witnit has quit [Quit: witnit]
[19:35:06] -!- nofxx [nofxx!~nofxx@unaffiliated/nofxx] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:38:56] -!- mikeh_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[19:39:21] -!- mikeh_ [mikeh_!~mikeh@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:50:50] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@2401:a400:2306:a100:8ce2:f8fa:1244:758e] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:58:02] nos__ is now known as nos
[20:03:08] -!- anth0ny_ has quit [Client Quit]
[20:08:26] -!- mikeh_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[20:08:42] -!- mikeh_ [mikeh_!~mikeh@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:12:23] -!- mikeh_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[20:12:40] -!- mikeh_ [mikeh_!~mikeh@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:15:06] -!- mikeh_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[20:15:22] -!- mikeh_ [mikeh_!~mikeh@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:22:33] -!- Ralith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[20:26:24] -!- mikeh__ [mikeh__!~mikeh@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:28:06] -!- mikeh__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[20:28:32] -!- mikeh__ [mikeh__!~mikeh@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:30:10] -!- mikeh_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[20:30:19] -!- SpeedEvil has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
[20:30:45] -!- SpeedEvil [SpeedEvil!~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:35:34] -!- ve7it has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[20:35:48] -!- ve7it [ve7it!~LawrenceG@S010648f8b3c3bc3b.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:36:11] -!- theorbtwo [theorbtwo!~theorb@cpc81866-swin19-2-0-cust48.3-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:41:18] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[20:42:40] -!- helixmachine has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[21:09:33] -!- steves_logging has quit []
[21:13:00] -!- TurBoss [TurBoss!~jauria@149.147.135.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has parted #linuxcnc
[21:15:03] -!- steves_logging [steves_logging!~Steve@wsip-70-182-2-252.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:27:02] -!- kalxas has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
[21:48:41] -!- SpeedEvil has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[21:50:19] -!- SpeedEvil [SpeedEvil!~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:51:26] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[21:54:55] -!- chupacabra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[22:05:48] -!- teepee has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[22:05:59] teepee_ is now known as teepee
[22:08:34] -!- chupacabra [chupacabra!~chups@2605:6000:101d:807e:42e2:30ff:fe9f:ba68] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:16:38] -!- morbo_ [morbo_!~morbo@dyn-int-217-47.hrz.uni-kassel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:16:47] -!- Duc_main [Duc_main!~Duc@24.96.23.106] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:17:03] -!- mikeh_ [mikeh_!~mikeh@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:17:07] -!- Wolfmetalfab [Wolfmetalfab!~Wolf_@c-69-140-232-48.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:18:12] -!- Nick001-shop has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 39.0.3/20150806001005]]
[22:19:31] -!- Nick001_ [Nick001_!~chatzilla@50.107.132.225] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:19:37] -!- Duc_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[22:19:37] -!- Wolf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[22:19:37] Wolfmetalfab is now known as Wolf_
[22:20:10] -!- mikeh__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[22:20:10] -!- Nick001 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[22:20:10] -!- Reventlov has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[22:20:10] -!- tiwake has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[22:20:11] Nick001_ is now known as Nick001
[22:28:59] -!- maybekoo2 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[22:29:07] -!- Ralith [Ralith!~ralith@174-21-93-162.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:44:28] <Deejay> gn8
[22:44:40] -!- Deejay has quit [Quit: bye]
[22:51:39] -!- almostworking has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
[22:57:21] -!- witnit [witnit!~Thunderbi@199.168.78.124] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:58:16] -!- motioncontrol has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[23:01:10] -!- yasnak [yasnak!~yasnak@31.192.111.189] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:03:54] -!- AR_ [AR_!~AR@24.238.81.234.res-cmts.sth2.ptd.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:13:36] -!- jerryitt has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
[23:15:59] -!- WalterN [WalterN!~Octavia@75-139-215-231.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:20:42] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[23:24:10] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@erina.opennet-initiative.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:37:40] -!- Akex_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
