#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-03-07

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[00:01:51] <enleth> is this repo a copy of 5i25.zip from mesa website, or the other way around?
[00:02:32] <enleth> (well, sure not a *copy*, the zip contains binaries too)
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[00:06:10] <pcw_home> 5i25.zip is probably a bit more up-to date
[00:07:15] <enleth> ack
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[00:15:26] <ve7it> andypugh, yes... I am pretty sure they are rebadged amcs..... I have some 100v servo motors, so I wanted something to get them turning... should be usable at reduced rpm with 75vdc bus
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[00:21:12] <enleth> it'a a pity AMCs for higher volateges are so rare
[00:30:28] <Crom> anyone get one of these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/161859699061
[00:31:12] <Crom> China knock off of a Noga idicator?
[00:32:16] <Crom> holder
[00:32:19] <CaptHindsight> as long as it doesn't wiggle or bend when it's holding the indicator it should be fine
[00:32:22] <_methods> yeah i got one
[00:32:31] <_methods> it's no noga for sure
[00:32:33] <Crom> decent?
[00:32:33] <_methods> but it works
[00:32:54] <Crom> good I just ordered one
[00:32:56] <_methods> i have the adjustable head one though
[00:33:04] <_methods> that one doesn't have the fine adjust
[00:33:34] <CaptHindsight> make sure it uses a magnet vs black hole since you want it to be useful for many years
[00:33:42] <Crom> that's fine... it's just for clocking in my 4 jaw, I can turn the bezel
[00:34:01] <_methods> yeah as long as you don't need teh fine adjust you'll be good to go
[00:41:13] <HoloPed> checkout my laser engraver project. https://lazygeckoblog.wordpress.com/
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[00:44:24] <Sync_> Crom: they are bad
[00:44:26] <Sync_> get a real one
[00:44:43] <Sync_> the clamping needs high torque and is fiddly
[00:47:54] <Crom> when I can afford the $80 I';ll get one... until then the $12 will work
[00:48:55] <pink_vampire> I'm looking for good and nice 1" arbor for slitting saw.
[00:50:41] <Sync_> I would not want to use one again, they are just annoying
[00:51:40] <Sync_> just get a generic one pink_vampire, for slitting saws runout is unimportant
[00:52:21] <pink_vampire> Crom: it's PINK!! <3
[00:52:49] <pink_vampire> but why zip ties??
[00:53:13] <Crom> yes it is! a very manly colour!
[00:53:27] <CaptHindsight> HoloPed: how much less straight is an acrylic machine frame vs a t-slot frame?
[00:53:37] <XXCoder> pink used to be man color and blue woman color
[00:53:41] <Crom> didn't want a girly robin blue
[00:53:43] <XXCoder> it somehow switched places
[00:54:16] <Crom> <-- into steam punk, and shakespeare so robin blue is girly and pink is manly
[00:54:20] <HoloPed> CaptHindsight, I didn't measure it but you can see the acrylic frame distort when the head changes direction and forces are applied to the pullys
[00:54:28] <CaptHindsight> does it depend on the type of acrylic used and the source of the t-slot?
[00:54:34] <pink_vampire> pink it's my color. but my machine is green :(
[00:54:52] <HoloPed> CaptHindsight, it depends how the t-slot is held together
[00:54:59] <Crom> well then paint it!1
[00:55:14] <HoloPed> acrylic should be avoided, it really not suited for mechanical parts or frame
[00:55:15] <CaptHindsight> how much was the accuracy and repeatability improved by the use of t-slot?
[00:55:24] <HoloPed> it will crack, just a matter of when
[00:55:45] <pink_vampire> Crom: look at that
[00:55:47] <CaptHindsight> will the use of a cast iron frame improve it further?
[00:55:57] <HoloPed> I doubt it
[00:56:06] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/pnEGG0h.png
[00:56:09] <HoloPed> Aluminum is pretty rigid
[00:56:09] <CaptHindsight> will the use of epoxy granite improve it even more?
[00:56:28] <pink_vampire> Crom: ^
[00:56:30] <HoloPed> will a single molecule diamond frame improve it ?
[00:56:37] <CaptHindsight> have there been any actual measurements made?
[00:56:50] <HoloPed> what about neutoronium ?
[00:57:03] <CaptHindsight> is this opinion or are there any facts?
[00:57:14] <Crom> pink_vampire, :) that's a nice color... more purple than pink
[00:57:18] <HoloPed> CaptHindsight, did you actually read the blog ?
[00:57:27] <HoloPed> I engraved a square, comes out with curved sides
[00:57:35] <HoloPed> I don't need to measure it to know its crap
[00:58:00] <pink_vampire> Crom: http://i.imgur.com/zopeOzP.png this is the machinewith the panel
[00:58:12] <CaptHindsight> I didn't see any numbers
[00:58:16] <HoloPed> 7
[00:58:19] <HoloPed> how's that
[00:58:21] <HoloPed> I have more
[00:58:31] <HoloPed> 91.2
[00:59:07] <CaptHindsight> any ridiculous or imaginary numbers?
[00:59:13] <_methods> 42?
[00:59:23] <HoloPed> How about a transcendental number
[00:59:27] <HoloPed> e
[00:59:34] <Crom> when I get my VA check I'll be getting a Bolton ZX45 I think
[00:59:57] <pink_vampire> 1.6180339887498948482
[01:00:06] <pink_vampire> Golden_ratio
[01:00:10] <CaptHindsight> I felt that the entire blog was enigmatic
[01:00:27] <HoloPed> I suggest you don't read it then
[01:00:27] <CaptHindsight> and whispy
[01:00:44] <HoloPed> Actually, I would prefer if you didn't read it
[01:01:02] <CaptHindsight> I didn't see any recipes for cookies either
[01:01:19] <HoloPed> with numbers
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[01:01:48] <XXCoder> &a227
[01:01:54] <XXCoder> $a227
[01:01:58] <XXCoder> bah dont work heh
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[01:02:24] <CaptHindsight> does & represent?
[01:03:03] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg7SCXOh-KY
[01:03:07] <CaptHindsight> can "a" be any known number?
[01:03:39] <pink_vampire> what do you think about the rotary broach?
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[01:04:17] <Sync_> it's a common tool for such things
[01:04:46] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: hexchat is supposed to convert it to PI symbol
[01:04:59] <XXCoder> I must be doing it wrong or something
[01:05:32] <CaptHindsight> π
[01:05:41] <CaptHindsight> you can have mine
[01:05:46] <XXCoder> lol thanks
[01:05:48] <CaptHindsight> I'm full
[01:07:09] <HoloPed> CaptHindsight, did you know that 0.9999~ equals one
[01:07:25] <HoloPed> (~ is repeat forever)
[01:07:25] <CaptHindsight> juan?
[01:07:29] <XXCoder> HoloPed: as long as 999s do not end
[01:07:55] <Sync_> HoloPed: what does the littlerp use as a mirror and window?
[01:08:21] <HoloPed> Sync_, there is a front surface mirror , not sure what you mean by window
[01:08:24] <HoloPed> you mean the vat ?
[01:08:25] <CaptHindsight> if infinities may be different sizes can integers also be different sizes?
[01:08:40] <HoloPed> sure you can have little 2 and big 2
[01:08:47] <HoloPed> 2>=2
[01:09:12] <CaptHindsight> the LittleRP's best use is extracting $ from the unwary
[01:09:54] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: http://www.lukesurl.com/archives/comic/082-infinite-crisis/comic-2008-11-19-numbers-gif
[01:09:57] <HoloPed> its second best use is to print stuff
[01:10:02] <HoloPed> third best use as a door stop
[01:10:08] <Sync_> yeah, the vat
[01:10:11] <HoloPed> forth best as a cat
[01:10:13] <CaptHindsight> some of it's owners are actually concerned about the amount of shrink of the photopolymers used with it
[01:10:26] <HoloPed> Sync_, petri dish with PDMS or a teflon foil
[01:10:30] <HoloPed> you actually get both
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[01:11:00] <HoloPed> the teflon is flexible , it helps with detaching the print when the build plate rises
[01:11:19] <HoloPed> works very well, but the cure time is a bit longer
[01:11:53] <HoloPed> CaptHindsight, that totally depends on the resin, not the printer
[01:12:02] <HoloPed> do you have numbers to back up that claim ?
[01:12:08] <HoloPed> how many owners, exactly
[01:12:29] <HoloPed> how much concerned are they, on a scale of -7 to pi
[01:13:56] <Sync_> hm, so probably boro
[01:15:26] <CaptHindsight> Sync_: it doesn't need anything more than a cheap front surface mirror
[01:15:43] <Sync_> which is not ideal, although I'm not so sure about the output of the projectors lamp
[01:17:24] <CaptHindsight> they are designed for RGB so they pass 400-700nm pretty well
[01:17:54] <Sync_> yeah but you really want 300-400
[01:18:05] <CaptHindsight> nope
[01:18:29] <CaptHindsight> well unless you're using resin only sensitive to that range
[01:18:36] <HoloPed> you disappoint me CaptHindsight
[01:18:49] <CaptHindsight> which nobody in the hobby wants to pay for
[01:19:07] <Sync_> well, most of the resins I have worked with have their highest efficiencies there
[01:20:03] <CaptHindsight> it's cheaper and easier to build systems >400nm
[01:20:26] <HoloPed> how much cheaper
[01:20:48] <HoloPed> I don't approve of your baseless and whimsical comments
[01:20:54] <HoloPed> where is the data
[01:21:19] <CaptHindsight> copy cat
[01:21:26] <_methods> hahah
[01:21:31] <CaptHindsight> lol
[01:22:24] <CaptHindsight> is $reprap broken again?
[01:22:37] <malcom2073_> HoloPed: If there's one thing you can count on in here, it's CaptHindsight trolling 3d printing people
[01:22:47] <malcom2073_> You're barking at a brick wall :)
[01:23:25] <Sync_> CaptHindsight: I see no reason to go >400nm
[01:23:39] <CaptHindsight> it ok
[01:23:41] <Sync_> all of the resins I see have their highest efficiencies below that
[01:24:50] <CaptHindsight> mostly con men and fanboys
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[02:48:45] <pink_vampire> I'm a bit lost with the calculations for the edm.
[02:49:09] <pink_vampire> I know that for each step I go 5 microns.
[02:50:05] <pink_vampire> I know that the minimum distance from the material before short circuit is one step away so it 5 microns.
[02:51:16] <pink_vampire> ans I need to eat at least 5 microns of material before sink down one step.
[02:52:17] <pink_vampire> so 5 + 5 + some safety margin bring me to 12 micron maximum gap.
[02:53:33] <pink_vampire> now for example if I want to use distillate water as my dielectric fluid.
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[02:54:36] <pink_vampire> I need to calculate the what is the minimum DC voltage that require to make a spark between 2 electrodes in distillate water.
[02:54:47] <pink_vampire> and here I need some help.
[02:54:55] <pink_vampire> someone here?
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[02:56:29] <pink_vampire> distilled ** why it make it distillate O_o?
[02:56:44] <PetefromTn_> I'd like to help you......but I don't know what the hell you are talking about ;)
[02:57:27] <pink_vampire> PetefromTn_: if you have a spark gap.
[02:58:23] <pink_vampire> PetefromTn_: how do you know what is the minimum voltage that can jump between the electrodes of the spark gap?
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[02:58:41] <Tom_itx> distilled water is nonconductive
[02:59:30] <pink_vampire> Tom_itx: also air, vacuum and plastic
[02:59:41] <Tom_itx> better coolant
[02:59:50] <Tom_itx> use submerged edm
[03:00:01] <pink_vampire> but you can see that in some voltages you can get a spark.
[03:00:34] <Tom_itx> you already know more about EDM than i do.
[03:00:59] <pink_vampire> I want to use water so the fumes will be non-toxic,
[03:01:41] <pink_vampire> the EDM dielectric fluid make toxic fumes.
[03:02:07] <Tom_itx> and probably more efficient
[03:02:24] <Tom_itx> use ventilation
[03:02:26] <pink_vampire> maybe..
[03:02:37] <pink_vampire> or just water..
[03:03:23] <pink_vampire> anyway.. to be able to use any material even air, I need to know how to calculate it.
[03:05:17] <pink_vampire> Tom_itx: ^
[03:05:34] <Tom_itx> http://edmtechman.com/about.cfm?pg=2&chap=3
[03:07:28] <PetefromTn_> jeez man remind me to never move again...
[03:07:38] <Tom_itx> hey Pete...
[03:07:51] <Tom_itx> don't ever ever move again
[03:07:51] <PetefromTn_> hey tom
[03:07:57] <PetefromTn_> thanks man
[03:08:17] <Tom_itx> or if you do... do it before you unpack
[03:08:23] <Sync_> what makes you think that if you use water it will be non toxic pink_vampire?
[03:08:36] <Tom_itx> Sync_ i bet a wag
[03:09:14] <pink_vampire> I'm sure it will not contain oil fumes.
[03:09:17] <PetefromTn_> I know right
[03:09:42] <PetefromTn_> it would not have been so bad if we did not have so much work to do on the house in addition to the actual moving work
[03:10:10] <pink_vampire> I know that I will get some oxidation of the metals.. so yeah some times you can get some stuff from that.
[03:11:04] <pink_vampire> but in general. the fumes are bubbles from the boiling that happen from the spark.
[03:11:55] <pink_vampire> so boiling water VS boiling oil..
[03:12:27] <Tom_itx> any outgassing of the metal during the spark?
[03:12:38] <Tom_itx> as it's removed
[03:15:15] <pink_vampire> lets see, what you have. the main parts are iron from the metal, carbon from the electrode, and oxygen and hydrogen in the water.
[03:16:01] <Tom_itx> assuming you're cutting iron, and using a carbon electrode
[03:16:26] <pink_vampire> most likely that the carbon will not react with the carbon..
[03:16:44] <pink_vampire> but it will react with the oxygen in the water.
[03:17:08] <pink_vampire> so I think you will get iron oxide
[03:17:18] <pink_vampire> and yellow color in the water.
[03:18:09] <pink_vampire> the leftovers hydrogen will also come as bubbles.
[03:19:57] <pink_vampire> I think that in the industry they want to avoid oxidation of the metal so they use non water based liquid.
[03:20:46] <pink_vampire> Tom_itx: ? PetefromTn_?
[03:24:18] <Tom_itx> i told you, you already know more about it than i do
[03:24:44] <Tom_itx> the rest i'd just be googling for you
[03:25:01] <pink_vampire> I'm now google much..
[03:25:55] <pink_vampire> I want to make it from my knowledge, I don't like copy paste solutions
[03:26:16] <pink_vampire> now = not
[03:26:43] <PetefromTn_> Like Tom you probably know more about it than I do. Sorry pink
[03:26:59] <pink_vampire> stupid stupid autocomplete
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[03:47:53] <CaptHindsight> pink_vampire: tomp would most likely give you his advice after 40 years in EDM
[03:48:06] <CaptHindsight> post on the mail list
[03:48:25] <CaptHindsight> there is a recent thread on Linuxcnc with EDM
[03:48:45] <pink_vampire> CaptHindsight: what advice?
[03:49:34] <pink_vampire> CaptHindsight: I want to know how to *calculate* the require voltage.
[03:50:06] <CaptHindsight> he'd jump right to the big picture vs answer your question
[03:50:14] <CaptHindsight> save everyone some time
[03:51:42] <CaptHindsight> Distilled water 65 - 70, Substance Dielectric Strength (MV/m)
[03:52:27] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5XcKBmdfpWs#t=99
[03:52:46] <pink_vampire> what is MV/m? mega volt / meter?
[03:53:03] <CaptHindsight> yup
[03:53:37] <pink_vampire> so I need to convert it to 12 microns..
[03:54:04] <CaptHindsight> shit, yeah :(
[03:54:08] <pink_vampire> so it's 65,000,000 volt for 1 meter?
[03:54:20] <pink_vampire> CaptHindsight: ?
[03:54:50] <CaptHindsight> microns http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/micron
[03:55:12] <pink_vampire> I know what is a micron..
[03:55:18] <CaptHindsight> hint, 1000um = 1mm
[03:55:21] <CaptHindsight> ah good
[03:55:42] <pink_vampire> but I'm not sure about 65,000,000 volt for 1 meter?
[03:55:52] <CaptHindsight> so the rest is academic
[03:56:30] <CaptHindsight> well you can find your own source for the dielectric breakdown voltage of DI water
[03:56:38] <CaptHindsight> and use that
[03:58:24] <pink_vampire> I just don't understand 100% of the 65-75 is basically in millions
[03:59:12] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_strength
[03:59:33] <SpeedEvil> What that means is for pure water, it will take 75MV to make an arc across it with a purely homogenous field
[03:59:55] <pink_vampire> ok.
[04:00:00] <SpeedEvil> pure water is quite a good insulator.
[04:00:02] <SpeedEvil> But.
[04:00:41] <SpeedEvil> Even pure water at that voltage would conduct a large amount of current.
[04:00:48] <SpeedEvil> It's just it wouldn't arc
[04:03:27] <pink_vampire> so accordion to the calculations, I need 900V to jump across 12 microns in distilled water?
[04:03:30] <toastyde1th> that's more voltage than jesus
[04:04:12] <pink_vampire> now Silicone oil, mineral oil[3][5] 10 - 15
[04:04:22] <pink_vampire> so for 15
[04:04:32] <Jymmm> I know that 18MV jumps 1.5" in air.... And hurts like a bitch!
[04:04:39] <pink_vampire> I need 180V
[04:05:08] <pink_vampire> Jymmm: I'm talking about 12 micron gap.
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[04:07:43] <pink_vampire> now what about salt water.
[04:10:42] <SpeedEvil> Dielectric strength and conductivity are not directly related
[04:11:08] <SpeedEvil> For EDM, you do not as I understand it want it to conduct - this is electrochemical machining.
[04:11:14] <SpeedEvil> you want an actual arc
[04:12:20] <pink_vampire> ok..
[04:13:12] <pink_vampire> so with mineral oil that it's 2.1 I'm getting 25.2V
[04:13:28] <pink_vampire> that it's very nice to work with.
[04:14:06] <pink_vampire> olive oil it's 3.1 and need 37.5V
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[04:15:51] <pink_vampire> no no
[04:15:58] <pink_vampire> opps my mistake.
[04:16:03] <pink_vampire> wrong table
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[04:16:51] <pink_vampire> oil it's 15 and need 180V
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[04:29:14] <Sync_> just use diesel
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[05:04:48] <Crom> my pops always used kerosene for EDM
[05:07:24] <Crom> back in 1977ish
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[07:07:44] <CaptHindsight> use gasoline and please post pics
[07:12:41] <pink_vampire> Crom: CaptHindsight I know that technically it can work because the spark is not exposed to oxygen
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[07:44:34] <maxcnc> morning from a sunny cold germany
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[07:56:01] <Deejay> moin
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[08:59:00] <DRGray> tool z length? does this affect the amount of layers used to cut to a specified depth?
[09:05:43] <archivist> it can, if too long it can flex, so take a smaller cut
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[09:09:51] <DRGray> so if i set z length to 2mm and its cutting 6 mill deep it will cut this in 3 passes?
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[09:14:39] <DRGray> i think i need to do this in dx2gcode still
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[09:22:42] <DRGray> OK for the win i think i have have it, i need to set a -z negative depth of where i want
[09:22:45] <DRGray> then it slices it fine
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[09:46:03] <pink_vampire> there is indoor welding process?
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[10:11:38] <archivist> indoors factory/garage yes
[10:12:26] <pink_vampire> I mean there is a way to weld without fumes?
[10:13:57] <archivist> use fume extraction
[10:14:03] <evil_ren> 3m organic particle and gas mask
[10:14:32] <evil_ren> with most fume extraction i can still smell shit
[10:15:03] <evil_ren> welding and soldering with a 3m gas mask, air is fresher than outside in los angeles
[10:15:10] <evil_ren> not an exageration
[10:15:38] <evil_ren> like, comfort is maybe an issue but for me breathing is easier
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[10:26:51] <DRGray> when i turn my jog speed down really low i get almost a sort of grinding sound i sometimes get a similar sound on homing the x axis just as it goes back and forth a couple of times
[10:26:59] <DRGray> is this a speed issue?
[10:33:34] <archivist> dont confuse stepping sound with grinding, is it loosing steps, there is a distinctive sound when steppers "cog" and lose steps
[10:36:39] <archivist> also at lower speeds the steppers can excite resonance in themselves and or the structure of the machine
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[10:41:11] <DRGray> ok
[10:41:23] <DRGray> well im going to try and cut a circle
[10:41:28] <DRGray> im not sure if i have the feed rate
[10:41:32] <DRGray> its only going to be a small circle
[10:41:40] <DRGray> 27mm diameter
[10:42:35] <DRGray> i have 2.35mm bit
[10:43:32] <DRGray> end mill
[10:44:00] <archivist> remember your depth of cute should be less than diameter, that is a tiny bit, you need very high spindle speed
[10:44:06] <archivist> cut
[10:44:29] <DRGray> im cutting 0.5mm at a time depth
[10:44:34] <DRGray> whats high?
[10:44:40] <DRGray> 10k 15k 20k?
[10:44:46] <DRGray> i can go up to 20k max on this spindle
[10:45:05] <archivist> what metal
[10:45:12] <DRGray> aluminium
[10:45:41] <DRGray> the end mill looks like it has about 8 flutes
[10:46:40] <archivist> is it a burr
[10:47:02] <DRGray> ill get you pic now
[10:49:22] <DRGray> http://www.werkzeuge-bs.de/epages/WBS.sf/?Locale=de_DE&ObjectPath=/Shops/WBS/Products/PR028750&ViewAction=ViewProductViaPortal
[10:49:26] <DRGray> its likethe one on the right
[10:50:34] <archivist> not a true endmill
[10:50:57] <DRGray> what is it?
[10:52:07] <archivist> better than a burr but little chip clearance, designed for hand held work
[10:52:46] <DRGray> 200 mm/min do you think that is about right?
[10:53:06] <DRGray> tool table, is it always in inches or is there a setting somewhere?
[10:54:04] <archivist> you set in/metric in your ini
[10:54:23] <DRGray> ill check now
[10:54:28] <DRGray> i also have this set
[10:54:29] <DRGray> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/371400800794?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=9046086&poi=&campaignid=207297426&device=c&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=aud-133395220866%3Apla-131843282226&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=122&ul_noapp=true
[10:56:11] <DRGray> i cant find a specific setting just for the tool table
[10:56:19] <DRGray> under traj linear_units is = mm
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[10:57:47] <DRGray> also is there a way to set a tool change position so it always goes to a specific xyz
[10:58:11] <archivist> you might need a smaller cut .1 .2 mm try it
[10:58:42] <DRGray> what depth?
[10:58:49] <DRGray> do .2mm at a time
[10:59:04] <DRGray> to allow it to spit the chips out?
[10:59:22] <DRGray> id like to not snap the end mill
[10:59:25] <archivist> something like that, and a lower feed rate
[10:59:47] <DRGray> 150 mm/min ?
[11:00:02] <archivist> some lubricant so chips dont stick to the endmill
[11:00:13] <DRGray> i have cutting oil
[11:01:47] <DRGray> im guessing if its going ok i can use feed overide to speed it up a bit
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[11:02:06] <archivist> soft al sticks and clogs the endmill
[11:02:22] <DRGray> anyway round that?
[11:02:38] <archivist> lubricant
[11:02:46] <DRGray> any specific kind?
[11:02:54] <DRGray> i wouldnt cut without lubcricant
[11:03:18] <archivist> some stuff cuts better dry
[11:03:30] <DRGray> its oing to go in .2mm increments now
[11:03:45] <DRGray> ill try a feed rate of 150
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[11:04:38] <DRGray> this board has 1mm aliminium then a sort of plastic
[11:06:07] <DRGray> i really appreciate your help on this
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[11:14:45] <enleth> DRGray: is it DiBond or some knockoff?
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[11:18:35] <DRGray> no idea
[11:19:09] <DRGray> it might be dibond as its off some old machinery that was fairly high spec
[11:19:44] <DRGray> does it make a big difference?
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[11:41:07] <enleth> if the polymer makes ip most of the thickness, I'd go for a single flute mill
[11:41:32] <enleth> *s/ip//
[11:43:13] <enleth> two flute at most
[11:45:03] <DRGray> through the chips out easier?
[11:45:23] <enleth> and less prone to clogging up with soft stuff
[11:46:52] <enleth> single flute long helix has a lot of air in the enveloping volume
[11:47:21] <enleth> they're made to cut polymers fast and will take a thin alu layer
[11:47:25] <DRGray> any good sources for small ones?
[11:47:29] <DRGray> about 2mm diameter?
[11:47:48] <enleth> nope, buying locally
[11:49:00] <enleth> anyway such a mill should cut through the alu, then use the polymer part if the chip to eject alu preventing it from sticking
[11:49:12] <DRGray> 4 fluts to many?
[11:49:53] <enleth> maybe not, but I wouldn't use it for this
[11:51:21] <enleth> also, try coated for sticky materials
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[11:56:49] <enleth> DRGray: quick googling suggests that it's indeed recommended to cut dibond using single flute or at most 2-flute end mills
[11:57:22] <enleth> DRGray: and more often than not people report using up-cutting mills with better results
[11:59:08] <enleth> those have a funny flute angle that ejects stuff upwards
[12:00:05] <enleth> DRGray: so save yourself a lot of grief and just get some single flutes, they will pay off
[12:01:17] <DRGray> ok
[12:01:27] <DRGray> im aluso cutting solid aluminium
[12:01:32] <DRGray> multi fluts ok for that?
[12:01:39] <enleth> 2-4
[12:01:49] <enleth> long helix
[12:02:23] <DRGray> why have these ones got so many flutes?
[12:02:33] <XXCoder> I sometimes use 5 flutes
[12:02:39] <enleth> for hard stuff
[12:02:41] <XXCoder> indeed
[12:03:41] <DRGray> it seemed to be cutting through it
[12:03:47] <DRGray> got a bit high piched so i stopped it
[12:04:19] <enleth> sure it will cut, but a proper tool will cut much better
[12:04:59] <DRGray> cut circle is the wrong size
[12:05:11] <DRGray> i must have a wrong setting somewhere its about half the size it should be
[12:05:19] <DRGray> im guessing its my stepper motor settings
[12:06:08] <DRGray> i think i see the issue its set to full steps on the config and half steps on the drivers
[12:06:12] <enleth> 8 flute will be good for something really hard to take thin chips and survive huge radial loads - more flutes means more material and less air in the mill
[12:06:34] <enleth> but cutting dibond with an 8 flute is IMHO just a mistake
[12:06:52] <DRGray> ok well i need to cut some aliminium today
[12:07:03] <DRGray> and i only have ones with 8 flutes
[12:07:09] <enleth> best of luck, it won't be easy
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[12:07:46] <DRGray> as in it will take lots of oil? or it will get jammed up
[12:08:58] <enleth> it will clog up, ruin surface finish with pieces stuck to the mill rubbing against the workpiece and probably snap a lot
[12:09:29] <DRGray> nice
[12:09:37] <enleth> order proper mills already to get them ASAP in case snapped mills just force you to hold off on this job
[12:11:03] <DRGray> yeah
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[12:12:29] <enleth> besides, if you're running a low power stepper machine, especially a plotter, you just don't have much use for many-fluted tooling
[12:14:35] <enleth> DRGray: just seen the links you posted
[12:15:01] <enleth> those things will clog faster than a lone port-a-potty on a mexican food festival
[12:15:27] <enleth> especially in dibond
[12:16:04] <enleth> polymer will half-cut half-melt on that, fill the flutes and prevent any further chip ejection
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[12:34:15] <_methods> hahah lone port-a-potty
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[12:50:16] <DRGray> nice
[12:53:01] <DRGray> would the bull nose one be any better?
[12:53:32] <archivist> I doubt it
[12:53:46] <DRGray> i have one with a much shorter end bit
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[12:55:12] <DRGray> quite hard getting one with a small shank
[12:58:46] <DRGray> ive found this
[12:58:47] <DRGray> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/end-mills/6666693/
[12:59:22] <_methods> sounds like you have bigger issues than just incorrect tooling
[12:59:33] <_methods> i'd work all that out while i was waiting for new end mills
[12:59:50] <DRGray> i just had it on the wrong stepper setting on the driver
[13:00:23] <_methods> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/end-mills/7369397/
[13:00:36] <_methods> there's a 2fl 3mm end mill
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[13:06:05] <DRGray> shank is to big
[13:06:10] <DRGray> needs a shank of 3mm
[13:06:22] <_methods> ahh
[13:06:27] <DRGray> i restricted the search by shank they only have 3 options
[13:07:01] <_methods> are they like some sort of UK tool supplier or something
[13:07:05] <_methods> they don't seem to have much
[13:07:38] <Sync_> no, they are like digikey
[13:07:55] <_methods> that would explain why they don't have much lol
[13:08:36] <DRGray> yeah ive been looking around though and they seem the only place that does that sort of thing
[13:08:40] <DRGray> for the size
[13:08:55] <_methods> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3mm-Carbide-Slot-Drill-End-Mill-Cutter-2-Flute-Square-/261471252913?hash=item3ce0e6b1b1:g:kH0AAOSwd0BV25Z4
[13:09:16] <Sync_> nah, there are a lot of uk tooling places
[13:09:37] <_methods> uk ebay one right there
[13:09:39] <DRGray> yeah there are but finding one that meats teh spec
[13:10:22] <DRGray> i want it tomorrow
[13:10:29] <DRGray> annoying that ebay one only does wednesday
[13:10:34] <_methods> plenty on ebay
[13:11:05] <_methods> for my home hobby stuff i buy most of my tooling off of ebay
[13:11:28] <_methods> and i take dead stuff at work that's going to get tossed
[13:11:34] <Sync_> not worth it
[13:11:39] <Sync_> I only buy sharp tooling
[13:12:00] <_methods> lol
[13:13:00] <enleth> DRGray: what RPMs does your spinle do?
[13:13:28] <enleth> _methods linked carbide but that might not be the best thing for dibond too
[13:13:49] <Sync_> _methods: nothing is more aggravating than dull tooling
[13:14:21] <DRGray> no i want to do mostly aluminium
[13:15:34] <enleth> DRGray: stay with HSS then, it will make life simpler
[13:16:06] <enleth> Sync_: dead stuff is OK if you have a proper sharpening rig, most commercial shops just don't bother to have a paid employee waste his time sharpening stuff
[13:16:21] <DRGray> i can only get it in carbigde
[13:16:23] <DRGray> carbide
[13:16:29] <Topy44> argh i hate cura. does anyone know if it is possible to a) rotate a bunch of objects at once and b) auto-rearrange all the objects?
[13:16:40] <enleth> DRGray: where do you live?
[13:16:44] <DRGray> uk
[13:16:49] <Topy44> it has that rather useful function that it rearranges stuff after loading, but it messes up once i edit anything...
[13:16:58] <enleth> DRGray: some small town or something?
[13:17:07] <DRGray> well i can get mail order throughout the uk
[13:17:14] <DRGray> just cant find it online
[13:17:15] <Sync_> enleth: nah, sharpening imho is only really possible on the front
[13:17:23] <Topy44> (i normally don't use cura, not used to its weird "polished" interface...)
[13:17:26] <Sync_> and that's fine but most of my tooling gets dull on the flutes
[13:18:18] <DRGray> all the rs ones are solid carbide same on ebay
[13:18:44] <archivist> Cromwell tools
[13:18:45] <enleth> Sync_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU489FhW3Ig
[13:18:59] <enleth> Sync_: getting one might be a challenge though
[13:19:26] <enleth> but it does appear to be effective at sharpening flutes
[13:19:46] <enleth> as long as you have a surface grinder, that is
[13:20:04] <Sync_> it is useless
[13:20:13] <Sync_> try one of those things and you will see why
[13:20:50] <enleth> tool diameter changing?
[13:21:18] <enleth> or something to do with grinding off the hardened layer?
[13:21:44] <Sync_> no, it is just incredibly difficult for no benefit
[13:21:53] <Sync_> and yes you have to calibrate the diameter afterwards
[13:22:04] <Sync_> but with a cnc that is not too much of a problem, still annoying
[13:22:11] <Sync_> and commercial tool regrinding is cheap as hell
[13:22:38] <enleth> how do they do it?
[13:22:55] <enleth> I'd assume they just have a bigger version of that jig, maybe CNC'd
[13:23:12] <Sync_> they have cnc grinders
[13:23:43] <enleth> anyway, this still appears to make some sense for big end mills that were expensive when new
[13:24:28] <Sync_> yes, for big ones it can pay off
[13:24:42] <Sync_> but for 1 shot carbide endmills, it does not
[13:24:53] <DRGray> well order all those end mill see what works best
[13:24:53] <enleth> that guy figured out how to use this jig in, like, an afternoon and when he got hang of it, the setup and use did not seem too difficult
[13:25:48] <Sync_> for an afternoon of work I can buy a lot of tooling
[13:26:35] <Sync_> the problem is getting the geometry right
[13:26:42] <Sync_> that is difficult with those things
[13:26:59] <Sync_> and getting it uniform
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[13:37:56] <DRGray> i just drilled 3 holes 5mm different in x * y and measured them and they are correct
[13:38:04] <DRGray> so at least i have the settings for the steppers right
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[14:07:04] <scofflaw> hello i have an out of warranty VNX which i'm unable to start/restart the management server on and cannot get to unisphere
[14:07:32] <scofflaw> i can RA into one of the SPs, but every ip/setup combination i've tried is unsuccessful, haven't found anything online regarding how to do this via navicli/naviseccli
[14:07:57] <scofflaw> anyone have any ideas what i might be able to do to get the management server running?
[14:08:18] <scofflaw> oh, #linuxcnc, sorry
[14:12:54] <HoloPed> morning nerds
[14:30:32] <miss0r> The previous owner of my surface grinder, managed to break the t slots extruding out under the magnetic chuck. I am thinking of drilling and tapping two 12mm threads on each side and make a clamp in each end. Is this a horrible idea? should I instead make holes through the base of the magnetic chuck, and have t-nuts un the good t-slots underneath? (not holes all the way through the magnetic chuck, obviously - just the extruded
[14:30:33] <miss0r> base that I would normally clamp on)
[14:31:44] <miss0r> the place I was planning on making the threaded holes, are in the thick material on either side of the t-slot, that is broken
[14:32:27] <_methods> you have pics of the broken tslot and chuck?
[14:32:36] <miss0r> nope
[14:32:45] <_methods> oh
[14:33:09] <miss0r> I could make some tomorrow thou
[14:33:12] <_methods> sure
[14:33:34] <_methods> i don't think i could confidently offer any suggestions on something like that without seeing it first
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[14:41:44] <miss0r> I get that
[14:42:58] <enleth> miss0r: did he use a truck tire wrench to tighten the t-nuts or what?
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[14:50:26] <miss0r> I have no idea
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[14:51:43] <enleth> I mean, how do you break t-slots?
[14:51:51] <miss0r> or perhaps he mounted it wrong - having tightened in a horrible angle or something
[14:52:12] <miss0r> cast iron is very hard, so if you somehow put on load at a bad angle you can break it
[14:52:21] likevinyl is now known as LikeVinyl
[14:52:34] <roycroft> if your t-slot nut is not constructed properly it's pretty easy to break a t-slot
[14:52:54] <roycroft> the nut should not allow the bolt to go all the way through it
[14:53:21] <Sync_> and it should not have a radius at the root of the slot part
[14:54:02] <roycroft> when i make t-slot nuts i take a punch and "bend" the last bit of thread at the bottom of the nut
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[15:03:55] <miss0r> I dont :) I often use a long bolt locked lightly against the botton of the t-slot, as a stop for parts
[15:04:17] <miss0r> you just have to know to use the right lenght bolts
[15:08:19] <archivist> make a t nut to bridge the gap
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[15:51:30] <CaptHindsight> Sync_: just FYI, there are lots of new photopolymers sensitive up to 420nm and ~500nm that take advantage of the low cost of using 405nm or ~460nm LED's
[15:53:21] <CaptHindsight> the under 400nm resins are the old school resins that were sold with the 3D Systems and similar glacial speed SLA printers
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[15:55:10] <CaptHindsight> they mostly use 355-365nm lasers, and the resins topped out at ~380nm for sensitivity
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[16:08:35] <Sync_> that might be true, I have not looked into it that much
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[16:13:23] * SpeedEvil has been wondering about hybrid
[16:14:05] <SpeedEvil> shoot UV at a '3d printer' like extruder with sensitised resin+chopped glass
[16:14:45] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[16:18:13] <CaptHindsight> there are hybrids printers that combine FDM with SLA and inkjet
[16:19:26] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[16:19:40] <SpeedEvil> Oooh.
[16:19:57] <CaptHindsight> a new popular one uses water soluble SLA or inkjet and then injects traditional low cost thermoplastics and thermosets into the molds
[16:20:05] * SpeedEvil ponders shooting molten granules of steel onto a substrate in vacuum.
[16:20:12] <SpeedEvil> Probably not useful
[16:20:24] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: Interesting
[16:20:36] <SpeedEvil> Sandcasting for the 21st century
[16:20:47] <CaptHindsight> hot molten granules
[16:20:58] <SpeedEvil> No, cold molten granules.
[16:21:07] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a breakfast cereal
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[16:21:58] <CaptHindsight> sandcasting using inkjet binder to form the sand mold
[16:22:53] <CaptHindsight> it's really fast since you start with sand that has a binder already mixed in and then you just inkjet the shell and then bake
[16:23:35] <CaptHindsight> the shell holds it together and whn you bake in the binder that was premixed gets activated and becomes rigid
[16:23:56] <Sync_> those sand core printers look cool
[16:23:58] <CaptHindsight> so you only have to inkjet the shell vs the full volume of the sand mold
[16:25:06] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[16:25:25] <SpeedEvil> neat
[16:25:45] <SpeedEvil> Also because most of the stuff is sand, not resin, and sand is really cheap
[16:25:59] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[16:27:14] <CaptHindsight> and binder that cures from heat is also low cost, the inkjet binder is the most expensive component since it requires near clean room conditions for formulation
[16:28:17] <CaptHindsight> we have to filter it to <1um or any large particles will clog the nozzles on the few $k printheads
[16:29:32] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
[16:29:58] <CaptHindsight> I'd like to start up a inkjet printhead co in China but I haven't found partners there
[16:30:13] <CaptHindsight> well worth working with
[16:30:48] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[16:31:20] <CaptHindsight> you give us tech and do all work, we collect money and pay you later
[16:31:33] <CaptHindsight> sign me up!
[16:31:37] <SpeedEvil> getting stuff done if you don't speak chinese and don't have someone with a clue who speaks it and you trust absolutely is problematic cheaply
[16:31:48] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: you've seen me linking to the chinalawblog?
[16:32:05] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[16:33:15] <CaptHindsight> I'd don't have legal problems there, it's more problems with partnering with people that actually will work and not be control freaks
[16:34:09] <SpeedEvil> well, contracts are the way that you can go beyond simply trusting people not to rip you off.
[16:34:10] <DRGray> how many amps do we need for anodising?
[16:34:15] <SpeedEvil> DRGray: depends on the area
[16:35:12] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: I'm not contracting out work. I'm looking for business partners to setup an industry/factory.
[16:35:22] <DRGray> just looking for the formula
[16:35:55] <MacGyverX> quick question, if I need to bring a pin to low it's invert = 0?
[16:36:08] <CaptHindsight> DRGray: http://www.finishing.com/67/01.shtml maybe this is what you're looking for
[16:36:23] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: yes - and what is legal and how you setup the buisness matters deeply on the amount of control you have. It's easy to find yourself in a position where you have no effective control or rights.
[16:36:50] <CaptHindsight> well sure
[16:37:00] <SpeedEvil> Which again is fine if you absolutely trust everyone
[16:37:35] <CaptHindsight> what amazes me is how many people just want all the control and expect you to just cooperate
[16:37:55] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[16:38:08] <DRGray> thanks
[16:38:24] <CaptHindsight> like asking a room of 6 years olds who wants to be the "leader" for the day
[16:40:48] <DRGray> so an area of about (10mm x 10mm) x 2 = 200mm = 2/3 sqr foot using 720 rule 720 * 2/3 = 380 amp minutes. so at 20 volts at 1 amp thats 8 hours?
[16:40:55] <DRGray> so answer is more amps?
[16:41:14] <DRGray> or am i being stupid some where
[16:41:25] <SpeedEvil> volts is not directly relevant
[16:43:37] <CaptHindsight> "The relatively approximate 720 rule varies with dissolution rate and that varies with all the parameters, yes even alloy, and concentration of free acid, and dissolved aluminum, impurities, agitation, accuracy of ammeter, how much current went on the rack, etc."
[16:43:58] <CaptHindsight> ^^ posted by the old guy on that forum
[16:46:11] <CaptHindsight> time = mic x (1/0.33) x (1/current density)
[16:46:11] <CaptHindsight> where
[16:46:11] <CaptHindsight> time: in minutes
[16:46:11] <CaptHindsight> mic: anodic film thickness in microns
[16:46:11] <CaptHindsight> current density: current in Amps divided by the load in sq. dm. This is generally 1.2-1.5 A/sq. dm."
[16:47:06] <DRGray> just reading
[16:47:24] <CaptHindsight> you'll have some tweaking to do
[16:48:02] <DRGray> mic = micron thickness ?
[16:48:20] <CaptHindsight> mic: anodic film thickness in microns
[16:48:55] <DRGray> current density, is that the cross section of the item you are anodising? or the total volume of your solution?
[16:49:35] <CaptHindsight> the load
[16:50:08] <CaptHindsight> total area of the substrate
[16:50:20] <DRGray> ok
[16:51:03] <CaptHindsight> where would the current be going in the tank without the substrate?
[16:52:03] <DRGray> the item the anode would be suspending in the liquid
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[16:52:37] <CaptHindsight> so without the item/substrate these is no anode
[16:52:48] <DRGray> correct
[16:52:50] <DRGray> is this bad?
[16:53:02] <CaptHindsight> well nothing will be anodized
[16:53:03] <DRGray> i thought thats how anodising works?
[16:53:27] <DRGray> http://www.rsc.org/learn-chemistry/Content/FileRepository/frg/images//anodising%20aluminium.JPG
[16:53:51] <DRGray> thats pretty much the setup
[16:54:26] <CaptHindsight> i was trying to get you to see how the current density is not based on the volume of the tank
[16:54:58] <DRGray> yes you mean the area of the item you are anodising
[16:56:42] <DRGray> current in Amps divided by the load in sq. dm.
[16:57:12] <DRGray> dm?
[16:57:29] <DRGray> decimetre?
[16:59:57] <DRGray> so time = mic x (1/0.33) x (1/current density) say at a thickness of 10 microns = time = 10 x (1/0.33) x (1/(0.02))
[17:00:14] <DRGray> 200mm^2 = 0.02dm^2
[17:04:48] <DRGray> according to this though it seems that as you increase your ampage yoru time incrases
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[17:17:14] <DRGray> erm i made a mistake
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[17:18:25] <DRGray> 0.04 m2 to dm2 = 4
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[17:18:48] <DRGray> 1/4 changes that ot 7 minutes
[17:19:02] <DRGray> sound better?
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[17:24:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.caswellplating.com/720.html
[17:24:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/attachments/720rulecalculatorrev001-zip.37333/
[17:24:52] <CaptHindsight> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=appinventor.ai_fabiovin70.AluminiumAnodizingCalculator&hl=en
[17:25:26] <MacGyverX> can someone help with a pin config queston?
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[17:26:40] <jdh> ask
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[17:27:26] <MacGyverX> I need to flip a behavior of a pin from active high to active low for the spindle enable
[17:28:03] * Deejay hands over an inverter to MacGyver
[17:28:08] <jdh> tie the signal to the not pin?
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[17:30:38] <alibama> hi folks - long time member on the emc-users mailing list, and recently acquired a sherline 3 axis mill… should be perfect for the little projects in mind… it doesn’t have a controller card, however, and I would like some advice…
[17:31:13] <jdh> mesa 5i25 or 6i25
[17:31:30] <jdh> or a parallel port
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[17:32:04] <alibama> jdh - what do the mesa’s plug in to?
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[17:32:44] <jdh> pci or pcie (or ethernet)
[17:33:02] <alibama> hmmm… ethernet might be better….
[17:34:42] <DRGray> CaptHindsight: thanks I’ll go over it later i think im getting closer
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[17:35:04] <alibama> jdh: ok - actually pci looks fine…. now please bear with my ignorance for a minute…. I’ll also need another card to control the motors, right?
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[17:37:14] <alibama> or does the power come out of the mesa card and power the motors directly… (sorry, ignorance isn’t always bliss)
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[17:37:47] <jdh> you would need a daughterboard and stepper drivers
[17:38:25] <alibama> jdh: ok - cool is there any recommended package to put this together that works particularly well for linuxcnc?
[17:38:43] <alibama> and would i need an additional power supply?
[17:39:08] <jdh> or something like a gecko g540
[17:39:19] <jdh> anf a power supply
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[17:39:45] <jdh> check the mesanet site for the 5i25 combo
[17:39:51] <alibama> so something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/131139126516?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true
[17:41:31] <jdh> I don't see a gecko in there.
[17:41:49] <jdh> they are 270ish by themselves
[17:43:19] <alibama> gotcha - yeah - i’m looking at the 5i25 + 7i77 and that looks like ~300 total
[17:44:41] <jdh> 7i77 is servo
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[17:45:58] <alibama> jdh: right, and the sherline is stepper… thanks
[17:46:39] <pcw_home> Yeah the 7I77 is for analog servos. If you have never done this before I would just use a parallel port and a G540 or MX3660
[17:46:41] <pcw_home> (or even lower grade step drive) and then upgrade the controller if you run into limitations
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[17:47:19] <jdh> certainly cheaper and probably easier
[17:47:42] <jdh> but, lacking the coolness factor
[17:48:06] <alibama> i’m not very cool :)
[17:48:49] <jdh> parallel port, chinese drivers, MB with low latency
[17:48:54] <alibama> believe me… i did try to be briefly, it was expensive and i wasn’t particularly good at it..
[17:49:17] <alibama> so with the http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver/3-axis-dsp-based-digital-stepper-drive-max-60-vdc-6-0a I would still need a mesa 5i25 controller card?
[17:50:04] <pcw_home> No, you can use a parallel port
[17:50:55] <alibama> really… so just plug this in and wire it up to go?
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[17:51:35] <jdh> power supply
[17:52:35] <alibama> cool — i’ve got a really nice power supply from an old engineering lab i think it’s 48V, but may be 24…
[17:52:50] <alibama> btw thank you both for walking me through this… I really appreciate it
[17:53:07] <jdh> eithwt will work unless you want faster moves
[17:53:12] <jdh> either
[17:53:32] <alibama> naw, speed is of little consequence right now…. that would be a **very** good problem to have :)
[17:55:43] <alibama> on the fun side this is for a glass blowing project… we’re milling in to graphite, about 1mm deep, then putting colored glass dust in there and rolling the molten glass over it to pick up the image…
[17:57:54] <alibama> kinda amazing there are 160 people in here… this is a tremendous resource…. thank you all, i’ll be back once I have the parts in place :)
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[18:31:47] <CaptHindsight> http://phys.org/news/2016-03-person-on-a-chip-d-heart-liver-tissues.html
[18:32:30] <CaptHindsight> do these chip people have the right to vote when 18?
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[18:35:03] <Cromaglious_> CaptHindsight: heh
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[18:37:24] <_methods> they make great snacks too
[18:37:58] <CaptHindsight> made for people by people from people
[18:38:16] <_methods> hahah
[18:40:49] <CaptHindsight> not really new, mew for them at U of T, but the heart tissue is interesting since it just wants to beat on it's own
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[18:43:55] <maxcnc> hi all from a ice road stucked germany
[18:47:22] <Jymmm> Heh, I need to get a hardhat so the ice/snow falling out of the 100ft trees dont send me to the hospital =)
[18:47:37] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: http://phys.org/news/2016-02-metal-clusters.html maybe use several SEM tips, each with a different metal to form clusters
[18:47:58] <Jymmm> hey CaptHindsight!
[18:48:47] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: wassappining?
[18:49:21] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Nutton much, just power outages and attack snow! lol
[18:49:42] <CaptHindsight> wow and spring arrives here today
[18:49:49] <CaptHindsight> 60 and sun
[18:50:22] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: They say there will be rain/snow even in April
[18:50:28] <Jymmm> up here that is
[19:04:21] <Loetmichel2> soo, car radio works now... (12V memory retain voltage fuse was blown) I cant believe how well that cheapass thing sounds... and BT handsfree and music works, too... even the nav software voice is now played over the main speakers... THATS how it has to work... and all that for less than 25€ :-) -> http://www.ebay.de/itm/401018590421
[19:05:38] <alibama> for open source / free gcode i’m looking at freecad and pycam… any recommendations? freecad looks a lot bigger, but that doesn’t always mean better....
[19:07:58] <maxcnc> heekscam
[19:07:58] <maxcnc> its also on ubuntu free
[19:08:49] <alibama> maxcnc: cool - and you find that one simpler than the others?
[19:09:09] <maxcnc> depends on your need
[19:09:16] <maxcnc> 2D 2,5 3D
[19:09:36] <maxcnc> master work graphics drilling engraving
[19:10:44] <alibama> maxcnc: primarily 2d, but would like to have some “simple” 3d http://www.hotblocktools.com/SwedishBlocks.html
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[19:11:13] <maxcnc> pk that works fine
[19:11:22] <maxcnc> there is also freemill
[19:11:42] <maxcnc> if you need realy CAM performence fusion 360
[19:11:51] <maxcnc> for plasma the sheetcam is best
[19:12:39] <alibama> no, it’s for a small sherline… 3 axis
[19:13:03] <alibama> just trying to get started and see whether we can make some small blocks for a new student
[19:13:19] <maxcnc> this will work without costs
[19:13:46] <alibama> so you like freemill for generating the g code? i’m testing that right now
[19:14:09] <maxcnc> its more for the picture engraving or sculping plain
[19:15:14] <alibama> oh… yeah, the stuff we’re doing is really basic…. no complex surfaces
[19:15:18] <maxcnc> for parts with real depth i use heeks with the pocket function
[19:15:32] <maxcnc> more options
[19:15:45] <maxcnc> it works also on 14.04
[19:16:00] <maxcnc> there are ppa packets
[19:16:54] <alibama> cool - thanks man, i’m going to download a copy now :)
[19:17:07] <maxcnc> https://launchpad.net/~neomilium/+archive/ubuntu/heekscnc-devel
[19:19:01] <maxcnc> im off GN8 till tomorrow
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[19:19:10] <PetefromTn_> Jeez man that transformer box I took off from the bottom of the electronics cabinet is REALLY DAMN HEAVY!! :D
[19:21:02] <Loetmichel2> PetefromTn_: an exboss answered on the question why he dosent take the big safe with him as we moved the company: "Den hat der Newton da festgenagelt!"
[19:21:20] <SpeedEvil> PetefromTn_: with or without the transformer?
[19:21:20] <Loetmichel2> ("newton nailed the Safe to the floor")
[19:21:35] <PetefromTn_> with of course
[19:21:43] <PetefromTn_> its just a big metal box without ;)
[19:22:14] <PetefromTn_> I am preparing to move the huge electronics cabinet to the side and down some from where it currently sits.... so I can clear a standard garage door
[19:22:15] <Loetmichel2> ... he then continued that the safe was about 4 tons and sat flat on the concrete floor: no way to lift it out of that corner without dismantling half the building to get a forklift in there
[19:22:34] <Loetmichel2> :-)
[19:23:12] <PetefromTn_> Loetmichel2 Honestly man If I could sell it for a good enough price for me to replace it I would just leave it but considering the time frame I am just gonna move it.
[19:23:43] <PetefromTn_> It has been making me a good bit of money lately so it has earned it's keep as it were ;)
[19:23:58] <PetefromTn_> if it had a working toolchanger it would be my bestest buddy
[19:24:18] <PetefromTn_> I cleaned out the entire enclosure today and removed all the chips that were in it....
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[19:27:41] <PetefromTn_> cleaning the top area for the moving of the electronics cabinet
[19:27:50] <PetefromTn_> it is really kind of stupid if you ask me
[19:28:06] <PetefromTn_> cincinatti goes and builds this very nice and QUITE compact machine
[19:28:26] <PetefromTn_> I mean the whole cabinet is only 6'6" wide by 7' long
[19:28:58] <PetefromTn_> and then they prop this electronics cabinet up a foot and a half off the floor sticking up almost higher than the millhead goes up...
[19:29:17] <PetefromTn_> I am sure they could find another spot to put that transformer
[19:30:03] <PetefromTn_> the entire bottom of the electronics cabinet is almost empty even from the factory
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[20:58:51] <robin_sz> ah mr Pugh
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[21:01:30] <JT-Shop> is there some info on what latency numbers are ok for what?
[21:02:25] <gregcnc> software stepping or hardware?
[21:02:38] <JT-Shop> yes
[21:03:14] <CaptHindsight> maybe we should update the wiki page on latency
[21:03:19] <JT-Shop> I thought I saw something somewhere that listed ok values for different applications
[21:03:41] <JT-Shop> maybe update the manual if I can find the info
[21:04:52] <CaptHindsight> pci vs ethernet fpga vs lpt
[21:05:56] <gregcnc> how does ethernet fall in?
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[21:06:32] <CaptHindsight> 1-2mS
[21:06:50] <gregcnc> similar to pci
[21:07:10] <CaptHindsight> for software stepping this page still holds true http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test
[21:07:31] <CaptHindsight> paragraph 6
[21:08:41] <gregcnc> reading the forums it seems latency needs are often misunderstood
[21:08:58] <CaptHindsight> often yes
[21:09:12] <JT-Shop> missed that page, thanks
[21:09:43] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: pcw can fill you in on the latest requirements for Mesa
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[21:10:13] <JT-Shop> yea, I found a few posts from pcw on the forum
[21:10:29] <JT-Shop> lets see we rang his bell twice :)
[21:12:20] <gregcnc> what actually happens when you get a realtime error with software stepping? is a step just missed or could be anything?
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[21:13:54] <andypugh> It could be a missed step. But more likely to be a late step. And a step will only be missed ifd a step is due that cycle. And most cycles do not have a step in them.
[21:15:46] <gregcnc> the reason i got the HP8000 was to replace the old box which after upgrading to 10.04 / 2.7 would very rarely throw an error
[21:18:02] <Jymmm> plasma cutter $650 http://www.harborfreight.com/240-volt-inverter-plasma-cutter-with-digital-display-62204.html?in_name=newproducts&in_date=030116
[21:19:02] <PCW> for hardware step/dir and 1 KHz servo loops with the right setup (DPLL PID step loop), Mesa hardware can tolerate 500 usec or so of latency
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[21:29:20] <PCW> This is largely dependent on the fact that large latency spikes tend to be infrequent so the DPLL can filter the
[21:29:22] <PCW> position sampling time very effectively, both by clipping large delays (error bounding) and the DPLL time constant
[21:29:23] <PCW> ( Current DPLL filter settings give about 250 ns of position sample jitter from about 100 usec source jitter )
[21:29:26] <andypugh> redneck tap-wrench. https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Holbrook#6259425708466856498 (Or, whatever the British equivalent of a redneck is)
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[21:30:23] <PCW> nice T handle
[21:30:47] <XXCoder> andypugh: American. ;)
[21:31:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: must login to view
[21:31:27] <XXCoder> Jymmm: I dont have login there, viewed fine
[21:31:35] <andypugh> Gah! I wish that they would stop messing about with Picasa.
[21:31:36] <XXCoder> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gCqn4dhNN_U/Vt3yhJsdYjI/AAAAAAAAGWE/WxluD9bnc3E/s912-Ic42/IMG_2402.jpg
[21:31:55] <Jymmm> XXCoder: you are aleady logged in then =)
[21:32:23] <Jymmm> XXCoder: ok your link worked
[21:32:26] <XXCoder> ah so I am... HM didn't know it was part of google
[21:32:29] <Jymmm> (direct link)
[21:32:49] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Welcome to BIG BROTHER... real life version
[21:32:53] <XXCoder> lol
[21:33:16] <JT-Shop> no doubt about it andypugh that is pure redneck!
[21:33:29] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Google Inc, A commercial division of the NSA
[21:33:36] <JT-Shop> well they might have used camo duct tape lol
[21:33:52] <XXCoder> lol
[21:34:02] <XXCoder> JT-Shop: lol
[21:34:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: it IS camo.... silver tap, silver wrenches, silver tape
[21:34:20] <JT-Shop> yea it should not match...
[21:34:53] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, shit... HOLD MY BEER....
[21:35:17] <XXCoder> you forgot "and look at me"
[21:35:38] <Jymmm> =)
[21:35:53] <Jymmm> XXCoder: no no this is camo... YOU CANT SEE ME!!!
[21:36:04] <JT-Shop> we completed this last night http://gnipsel.com/images/log-arch/
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[21:36:41] <XXCoder> camo coat!
[21:37:13] <XXCoder> what does it do?
[21:37:18] <Jymmm> XXCoder: http://www.amazon.com/2009-Guns-Camo-Wall-Calendar/dp/B001F4L0VI
[21:37:43] <XXCoder> now, that is proper hunting attire. :P
[21:37:54] <Jymmm> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/345792077619020445/
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[21:39:10] <JT-Shop> it's a log arch
[21:39:27] <JT-Shop> video tomorrow
[21:40:02] <XXCoder> ah so its tow for log
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[21:54:53] <JT-Shop> yes
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[22:03:11] <Loetmichel2> XXCoder: ouch
[22:03:28] <Loetmichel2> thinking on going into deep woods in THAT is hurting...
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[22:04:09] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:19:17] <andypugh> She seems better equipped for fishing. She isn’t going to sink.
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[22:30:21] <andypugh> My compressor has died. I have a pneumatic drawbar. This is inconvenient.
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[22:46:35] <yasnak> if you blow hard enough...
[22:46:38] <yasnak> ;P
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[22:51:20] <SpeedEvil> propane!
[22:52:55] <andypugh> Need 150 PSI (I sized the piston wrongly, truth be told0
[22:56:06] <yasnak> Jeez, do those POS pancakes even go that high?
[22:56:27] <yasnak> Sorry, haven't had a little compressor in awhile. I've got 2 50HP almig screws
[22:58:45] <SpeedEvil> 27C propane.
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[23:02:49] <Cromaglious_> wooo 50hp screw compressor.... DROOL!!!!
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[23:03:10] <_methods> til you get the power bill
[23:03:20] <Cromaglious_> true...
[23:05:07] <Cromaglious_> andypugh: a 135psi compressor is pretty easy to tweak to get 170psi. 120psi compressors are a bit harder but they will do 150psi just
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[23:06:57] <yasnak> IDK why we have two, one for backup thats older. We only run one and I'd bet that it never runs past 20% capacity.
[23:07:21] <yasnak> Even with a 3" outlet I'm sure it couldn't run to capacity
[23:07:32] <_methods> yeah we have a 100hp rotary that we never use
[23:07:42] <_methods> got 2 20hp that run the shop
[23:07:57] <yasnak> The old one we have has a shot overpressure bypass valve. It will randomly go off, scares the crap out of you
[23:07:59] <_methods> 1 for backup
[23:08:23] <_methods> that 100hp was killing us on electricity
[23:08:28] <yasnak> Hmmm
[23:08:34] <_methods> and it was way more capacity than we needed
[23:08:40] <yasnak> Electricitiy isn't something I really ever think about :/
[23:08:47] <yasnak> Sad really
[23:08:55] <yasnak> but yeah, 100hp. dang
[23:09:27] <_methods> we used to do some painting and large sand blasting
[23:09:31] <_methods> but we quit all that
[23:09:41] <__rob2> do most absolute encoders output a greycode value ?
[23:10:02] <Cromaglious_> I found a 60 gallon tank on the road side near my brothers, my pops had a emglo pump and I had a 2hp 110v motor. I bough a oneway valve and a compressor pressue switch and put it all together. it ran great great. the tank was a 200# test and I ran it too 150psi
[23:10:06] <__rob2> or an actual position value in 0 to N?
[23:10:53] <Cromaglious_> yasnak: pressure relief valves are cheap...
[23:11:01] <yasnak> time is expensive :P
[23:11:15] <yasnak> thats why i'm on IRC, haha
[23:12:26] <Cromaglious_> heh... I'm volunteering until 8pm tonight at http://creatorspace.us I do Monday from 7am to 8pm and wednesday 8am to 4pm
[23:12:56] <andypugh> Cromaglious_: Aye, the one I have is meant to be 8-bar but I changed the pressure switch :-)
[23:13:37] <andypugh> meant to put a relief valve on it, so it isn’t starting aginst pressure, but actually it seems OK, except that the current relay seems to not be dropping in.
[23:14:12] <Cromaglious_> does it have the relief port on the switch?
[23:14:54] <andypugh> Yes, on the new switch that I fitted. The problem is no one-way valve in the reservoir. Not a hard problem to fix…
[23:15:17] <andypugh> But no point unless I can find a new current relay.
[23:15:35] <Cromaglious_> I used a brass one way valve with a nylon flap (more of a puck)
[23:16:35] <Cromaglious_> you can make one real easy with a spring and a piece of brass pipe and a coupling and a hunk of HDPE
[23:17:02] <andypugh> I think it’s probably this I need: http://shop.cjsdirect.co.uk/jun-air---4526000---starting-relay-f3-motor-230-v-2304-p.asp
[23:17:32] <__rob2> omg, I thought my encoder was unaligned and it was just grey code encoded
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[23:17:49] <__rob2> made the perfect alignment jig and everything
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[23:18:33] <Cromaglious_> and a http://shop.cjsdirect.co.uk/bambi-non-return-valve---bpb1086-830-p.asp
[23:19:19] <Cromaglious_> http://www.airsupplies.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/a/bambi_non_return_valve_all_lubricated_models_-_bpb1086.jpg
[23:19:45] <Cromaglious_> I think I could make it for cheaper than that
[23:20:02] <andypugh> There is no point looking at one-way valves unless I can get the motor to work again…
[23:21:22] <Cromaglious_> current relay? not a capacitor start motor?
[23:22:14] <andypugh> Yes. It is a capacitor-start motor, and the capacitor is switched-in with a current relay
[23:23:01] <Cromaglious_> hmmm all mine are centrifugal clutch switch
[23:23:35] <andypugh> Mine is a tiny Jun-Air silent one.
[23:24:36] <Cromaglious_> wooo 45dB nice and quiet
[23:24:57] <andypugh> (I have to turn off the PC to tell if it is running, the fans are louder than the compressor)
[23:25:53] <andypugh> Mine is the 35dB(A) version: http://www.jun-air.com/product_detail.aspx?ProductID=627&ProductTypeID=50
[23:26:13] <Cromaglious_> sheeshz darn tooting it's quieter than the fans
[23:26:39] <andypugh> Perfect for running a tool-changer once every hour or so.
[23:26:51] <Cromaglious_> all my compressors are nosiey things
[23:27:21] <andypugh> Yeah, I hate the cheap direc-drive ones. You can barely think in the same room as them. That’s why I got the Jun-Air.
[23:27:28] <Cromaglious_> but I can be in the bedroom and still hear it at the front of the house if I left it on
[23:28:39] <Cromaglious_> my youngest got my 60 gallon... it was pretty quite, you had to be in the room next to the garage to hear it going puka puka puka puka
[23:28:46] <andypugh> The Jun-Air is onlu about 300W, so it is wired in to the workshop lighting circuit. It comes on with the lights, and goes off with them too.
[23:29:25] <CaptHindsight> ours shakes the whole building and sounds like a very fast punch press
[23:30:30] <Cromaglious_> sheeshz.. I'd almost consider getting a 12v 13bar auto tire compressor and put a contactor on it to do the same thing off a car battery and float charger.
[23:31:56] <Cromaglious_> since you're probably using mainly for the changer
[23:31:56] <CaptHindsight> speaking of car batteries, my yellow top optima just died after 3 years
[23:32:09] <Cromaglious_> 3years? that ain't right
[23:32:14] <CaptHindsight> who makes the best automotive batteries today
[23:32:17] <CaptHindsight> ?
[23:32:26] <Cromaglious_> I had an Atlas go for 8 years...
[23:32:36] <Cromaglious_> CaptHindsight: I'd still say optima
[23:32:51] <CaptHindsight> optima got bought out by someone afew years and moved production down to Mexico
[23:33:06] <Cromaglious_> 8 years of never below 40 degrees or over 90f
[23:33:22] <CaptHindsight> I guess the warranty is pro-rated
[23:34:02] <CaptHindsight> I left the dome light on for several days and it never recovered
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[23:36:30] <Sync_> well, your fault then
[23:38:02] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I should have just left it on the shelf as a spare, it would still be good now
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[23:43:37] <Sync_> mine turns itself off after a while
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[23:50:38] <andypugh> Hmm http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Senco-PC1010-Compact-Portable-3L-Aluminium-Tank-0-5-HP-Compressor-230V-/400824479516?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
[23:51:16] <andypugh> “Ultra quiet” but then they quite 68dB(A). That ls likely to be rather louder than the 35dB(A) Jun-Air, isn’t it?
[23:52:10] <Jymmm> When analog just isn't good enough... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-Expert-Stainless-Steel-Digital-Tyre-Tread-Depth-Gauge-with-Case-39591/400954189191
[23:52:47] <Jymmm> Um, say what?! "More than 79% sold"
[23:53:48] <Jymmm> is the other 21% but it now too?
[23:53:59] <Jymmm> free combined shipping?
[23:54:11] <Sync_> andypugh: that is one of them direct drive deals
[23:54:22] <Jymmm> Inquiring minds want to know!
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[23:58:10] <andypugh> Sync_: Yes. I expect it will be not unlike the 95dB(A) ! “Silent” generator a friend bought.
[23:59:28] <yasnak> lol
[23:59:54] <yasnak> slient...relative to what? a train horn?