Back
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[00:05:11] <Cromaglious_> I bought a pair of 9" tallsize 10 us mens linemen boots for 30. I though they were sz 11's
[00:05:42] <Cromaglious_> they are in decent shape, I'll have pictures up tomorrow
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[00:42:49] <andypugh> New blog post to celebrate CNC motion.
[00:42:51] <andypugh> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/holbrook7.html
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[00:46:20] <__rob2> thats really cool
[00:46:27] <__rob2> bet that drilling operation wasn't fun
[00:46:59] <andypugh> It was pretty squeaky.
[00:55:43] <yasnak> Well, second shift puts new person on mill. Do not fully train, esspecially on a double vice and how they feel and should feel when both sides are locked down.
[00:55:50] <yasnak> Just blew a 5" facemill
[00:56:16] <Tom_itx> awesome
[00:56:21] <Tom_itx> take it outta their check
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[00:57:16] <yasnak> Luckily its just the head, it bolts on. Probably can be rebuilt but not sure its worth the time (at least for me)
[00:57:34] <yasnak> What sucks more is they blew the setup/jaws
[00:57:47] <yasnak> *she heh
[00:59:42] <Tom_itx> how many machines do you have?
[01:00:04] <andypugh> Hard to blame someone for being inadequately trained. Though they ought to know that they are inadequately trained, I guess.
[01:00:32] <cradek> if only everyone could know what they don't know
[01:00:38] <Tom_itx> you don't know what you don't know
[01:01:08] <andypugh> You don’t know _all_ that you don’t know. Rumsfeld had it right.
[01:01:16] <Tom_itx> cradek there would be fewer jobs available
[01:02:12] <cradek> poor rumsfeld. wherever he goes, there he is. he's the only one who can't get away from rumsfeld.
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[01:05:06] <_methods> when trump is president he can bring rumsfeld back
[01:05:10] <_methods> and cheney
[01:05:56] <andypugh> A perverse part of me wants to see what happens if Trump is elected president. The same part of me wants to see what happend if Britain leaves the EU.
[01:06:07] <_methods> the chaos bug
[01:06:14] <_methods> it won't be good
[01:06:24] <_methods> like that watching a train wreck thing
[01:06:26] <andypugh> I am fairly sure that both would be bad, but I am curious _how_ bad.
[01:06:55] <cradek> yeah, I guess it's fun to wonder who would end up in the camps first
[01:07:01] <_methods> well just 8 years of bush,cheney,rumsfeld trifecta gave us this
[01:07:27] <_methods> so imagine what someone as yuuuuuuuuge as trump would do with all that winning
[01:07:46] <_methods> mexico will build the wall just to protect themselves lol
[01:08:34] <andypugh> There is an old fire-ladder in our fire-engine garage. It has a label “This side to the wall” I want to add some Dymo tape that appends “When the Revolution comes”
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[01:10:50] <FloppyDisk> With the gearchange comp and feeding that to the gs2_vfd, is there anything special I need to do to reverse direction for High/Low?
[01:11:12] <FloppyDisk> I have the gearchange.0.rev set to 1
[01:11:37] <FloppyDisk> And, when I monitor the gearchange.0.dir-out, it changes, but my spindle does not change direction.
[01:11:42] <andypugh> I think that is all you need.
[01:11:53] <FloppyDisk> That's what I thought too...
[01:12:04] <Cromaglious_> andypugh: ROFL good one!
[01:12:12] <andypugh> How do you reverse your spindle?
[01:12:42] <FloppyDisk> Ummmm...
[01:12:47] <FloppyDisk> I'm not sure!!!
[01:12:51] <FloppyDisk> sorry!
[01:12:53] <andypugh> Does a negative number cause reverse rotation?
[01:13:07] <FloppyDisk> I'll go check:-( Sorry...
[01:13:10] <andypugh> Have you ever had the spindle run backwards?
[01:13:41] <FloppyDisk> I originally set the spindle up backwards and reversed a wire to change direction. Let me go play w/ it.
[01:16:24] <FloppyDisk> I get an error - Negative spindle speed used if I enter a S-1000 and the spindle stops!
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[01:16:46] <andypugh> Well, yes, that’s the wrong layer.
[01:16:58] <FloppyDisk> sorry.
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[01:17:13] <andypugh> Does M4 gove a negative motion.spindle-speed-out, and does that make the spindle reverse?
[01:17:54] <FloppyDisk> thanks - let me try.
[01:17:56] <andypugh> (There are lots of ways to make things work, depending on the setup)
[01:18:22] <FloppyDisk> agreed - I have been getting more comfortable w/ the components, but I'm slow and need to 'draw' them out...
[01:18:39] <FloppyDisk> But, I can make them do what they're supposed, at least a little better.
[01:19:19] <zeeshan|2> is this a bug: if you have spindle override set to 0
[01:19:21] <andypugh> If you have an “abs” and are using the “is negative” to reverse the drive then you probably need that after the gearchange.
[01:19:35] <zeeshan|2> and you run a program, the program runs. and the axis start feeding
[01:19:39] <zeeshan|2> even tough the spindle isnt running
[01:19:58] <zeeshan|2> but if you dont override the spindle, it waits till it reachs the desired rpm before doing linear moves
[01:19:59] <andypugh> If you use motion.spindle-reverse then you may need to xor that with the gearchange.reverse pin.
[01:20:23] <FloppyDisk> M4 works spindle CCW and M3 is spindle CW.
[01:20:40] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: At spindle-overide = 0 then it is already at the set speed..
[01:20:49] <FloppyDisk> I'll look at the motion.spindle-reverse.
[01:20:49] <zeeshan|2> :P
[01:21:13] <andypugh> FloppyDisk: So, you need to figure out what revereses the spindle, and conbine that with the gearchange
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[01:21:20] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: reason i worry is say vfd dies
[01:21:26] <zeeshan|2> in between a program
[01:21:30] <zeeshan|2> im not sure if the program will pause
[01:21:49] <andypugh> Depends if you have spindle speed feedback
[01:21:52] <zeeshan|2> i do
[01:21:57] <FloppyDisk> andypugh - got it, will look at that. Thank you for the help and the lathe looks awesome!
[01:22:03] <zeeshan|2> and i have spindle at speed setup
[01:22:19] <andypugh> So then, it will work. Spindle-override to zero is _very_ different to dead-VFD.
[01:22:35] <zeeshan|2> yea that makes sense now that you put it that way
[01:22:36] <zeeshan|2> =P
[01:22:59] <andypugh> And on that high note, I will go to sleep. :-)
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[01:25:45] <FloppyDisk> I know andypugh checked off, but he's right as usual... motion.spindle-reverse is hooked up directly to the gs2_vfd comp and I think it needs to
[01:25:54] <FloppyDisk> go through the gearchange comp... duh.
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[01:33:20] <__rob2> just been looking up hand scraping
[01:33:29] <__rob2> this does not give you a flat surface at all right ?
[01:33:41] <__rob2> just alot of flat areas that are all the same wrt to each other
[01:34:13] <__rob2> but your not expected to end up with a perfect blue surface when rubbing it on your master surface ?
[01:34:14] <cradek> pretty much, with the number of them and how close together they are depending on how much time you spend
[01:34:49] <cradek> surfaces that are too flat stick together and you usually don't want that. ever mess with gage blocks?
[01:34:52] <__rob2> yea, right, so its really the distribution of them that is the main thing ?
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[01:35:18] <__rob2> so the flats are evenly distributed across the surface, and relatively fine
[01:36:39] <__rob2> just seems strange people are talking in millionths of an inch for hand scraping
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[01:45:20] <Simonious> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t_t8Sp0fAg
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[02:18:22] <ripple> typo in section 5 of the linuxcnc website on "Get Linuxcnc" page
[02:18:26] <ripple> Warning
[02:18:26] <ripple> Do not upgrade the operating system if promped to do so.
[02:18:49] <ripple> ****prompted****^
[02:20:51] <malcom2073> promped! heh
[02:21:44] <ripple> I found one for one of the mesa cards too but completely forgot which card and what section :/
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[02:55:06] <tiwake_work> have another small batch of stuff on anodizing right now
[02:55:33] <tiwake_work> going to pull them out at 8:30pm :-/
[02:55:38] <tiwake_work> another 1.5 hours from now
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[03:35:07] <MacGyverX> Hmm does anyone know of a resource that explains/has examples on how to adjust the steps per mm in the ini?
[03:36:07] <Tom_itx> umm i used to..
[03:39:01] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/stepconf.html#_axis_configuration
[03:39:10] <Tom_itx> not what i wanted but might help
[03:39:58] <MacGyverX> I can’t use stepconf. That’s why I need to adjust the ini directly.
[03:40:55] <Tom_itx> yeah i know... i'm looking
[03:46:20] <MacGyverX> kk
[03:46:49] <zeeshan|2> MacGyverX: do it hax style
[03:46:50] <zeeshan|2> change the cale
[03:46:52] <zeeshan|2> scale
[03:47:01] <zeeshan|2> put indicator, move a known distance and see if it matches
[03:47:02] <zeeshan|2> :P
[03:47:19] <zeeshan|2> find ratio between actual distance and commanded distance, and update scale!
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[03:48:04] <MacGyverX> Yeah. I don’t want to spend half the day trial and erroring to set all that up. This stuff has to be documented somewhere
[03:48:22] <MacGyverX> I want to configure it correctly.
[03:48:22] <Tom_itx> it was but may have gotten deleted
[03:48:30] <Tom_itx> i can't find what i'm looking for now
[03:48:45] <MacGyverX> Hrmm
[03:48:48] <Tom_itx> parport or mesa card?
[03:49:00] <MacGyverX> Beaglebone Black
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[03:49:33] <Tom_itx> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing
[03:49:35] <Tom_itx> timing
[03:49:40] <Tom_itx> not steps
[03:49:53] <MacGyverX> Since the DB25 is a series of gpio and not a true parport. Stepconf is not useful
[03:52:06] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/motion/tweaking_steppers.html
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[04:03:04] <FloppyDisk> Maybe section 2.10.3 here:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:AXIS-section
[04:03:25] <FloppyDisk> INI stepper scaling listed there.
[04:05:07] <Tom_itx> it's pretty easy to figure
[04:05:30] <Tom_itx> steps per rev * microsteps * turns / unit
[04:06:18] <Tom_itx> in my case it's 40000 per inch
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[04:19:27] <PetefromTn_> Hey folks..
[04:19:53] <PetefromTn_> been thinking lately about things around here...
[04:20:08] <PetefromTn_> now that I have just about finished all the work I had to do to my home
[04:20:21] <PetefromTn_> I have to get the CNC's packaged up for transport very soon
[04:20:43] <PetefromTn_> the biggest hurdle I am going to have with that
[04:20:54] <PetefromTn_> has to do with the overall height of the Cincinatti
[04:21:22] <PetefromTn_> this house I was able to modify the garage shop door to allow it to be put inside without modifications to the machine
[04:21:49] <PetefromTn_> but that will PROBABLY not be the case with the house in Florida and does not appear to be with the house we are looking at currently
[04:22:16] <PetefromTn_> the electronics cabinet is by far the tallest point on the machine
[04:22:33] <PetefromTn_> at least when the millhead is stowed down on top of the table
[04:23:07] <PetefromTn_> I was planning to start cutting the top of the cabinet off and tig welding it back on after shortening the top
[04:23:26] <PetefromTn_> this would be quite a pain in the butt because I have to modify the door and everything
[04:24:18] <PetefromTn_> another issue is that most of the control wiring for the toolchanger and the power to the spindle motor all go out the right side of the very top of the electronics cabinet
[04:25:06] <PetefromTn_> so all those wires of which there are quite a few would have to be drilled into the new lowered top and the grommets they go thru reinserted into new holes coming out the top
[04:25:26] <PetefromTn_> after I finished the stair treads today I was out in the shop and started looking at the whole thing
[04:25:50] <PetefromTn_> the electronics cabinet is basically like a tall and wide high school locker
[04:26:05] <PetefromTn_> the top of it bolts to the side of the column
[04:26:34] <PetefromTn_> the bottom rests on top of a ledge that protrudes from the base of the mill in back
[04:27:10] <PetefromTn_> underneath this cabinet is another smaller electronics cabinet that houses the original main power transformer
[04:27:24] <PetefromTn_> this is no longer used now that the machine is single phase input
[04:27:31] <PetefromTn_> so I got to thinking
[04:27:41] <PetefromTn_> if I were to remove that box and the transformer
[04:28:01] <PetefromTn_> it may be possible to disconnect the entire electronics cabinet from the machine
[04:28:12] <PetefromTn_> and drop it off the ledge
[04:28:22] <PetefromTn_> and lower it down beside the ledge
[04:28:38] <PetefromTn_> to where the cabinet is just above the floor
[04:29:03] <PetefromTn_> this will require reworking the upper mount and extending it about six inches
[04:29:52] <PetefromTn_> the good news is that this additional distance would make it possible to NOT have to do any serious cutting or rerouting of the toolchanger and spindle motor cabling
[04:30:09] <PetefromTn_> the only modifications I would need to make would be
[04:30:35] <PetefromTn_> there is a rectangular hole in the back of the electronics cabinet that has wires running to the PC up front
[04:31:08] <SpeedEvil> :)
[04:31:30] <PetefromTn_> I would have to slot that hole larger or move it to whatever new location lines up with the port and then rerun those much fewer wires
[04:31:53] <PetefromTn_> this would make the entire machine low enough to insert it in any garage door
[04:32:11] <PetefromTn_> sorry for the long text I am kinda thinking out loud here ;)
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[12:00:02] <__rob2> https://www.cromwell.co.uk/index.php?q=0&p=viewproduct&i=ATS4155000A&message=addtobasket
[12:00:12] <__rob2> this stuff gonna be ok for shimming a mill?
[12:01:02] <malcom2073> Plastic tends to squish easier than metal
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[12:01:09] <malcom2073> Depends on how much force it's gonna see
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[12:02:53] <Sync_> ideally you use something like dhw for shimming
[12:06:22] <__rob2> ok, i'll grab some metal stuff
[12:06:37] <__rob2> getting patterns on the face mill, and a bump I can feel with full stepover
[12:06:43] <__rob2> that has to be the tram right ?
[12:07:09] <__rob2> indicator says its 1/1000 out both directions over 20cm
[12:07:23] <__rob2> well, more like 10cm actually
[12:07:38] <__rob2> that will produce such results right ?
[12:07:44] <__rob2> want to make sure I'm debugging the right thing
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[12:08:52] <__rob2> http://snag.gy/BhWez.jpg
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[12:18:04] <archivist> at that amount shims will be too thick
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[12:18:49] <__rob2> well, just got it level in 1 direction
[12:18:56] <__rob2> I can get a 0.3mm feeler under the foot
[12:19:53] <__rob2> bought this
https://www.cromwell.co.uk/IND4151050A
[12:20:29] <__rob2> so the directions on that face above seem to be correct for the way the indicator is suggesting
[12:20:52] <__rob2> hope that fixes it
[12:24:38] <Sync_> you will loose rigidity as you don't have solid surface contact anymore
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[12:27:58] <__rob2> right, not much other option tho
[12:28:23] <archivist> scraping
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[12:29:53] <archivist> and before you do anything, see if cutting the other direction does something different, might be column flex
[12:33:06] <__rob2> ok, i'll try that
[12:33:15] <__rob2> it is 0.3mm face going sloow
[12:33:24] <__rob2> cutting aluminium
[12:34:29] <__rob2> got some m10 tapped aluminium blocks under each corner with a bolt in it
[12:34:40] <__rob2> testing out level it with undoin the bolt, to see
[12:35:03] <_methods> my x2 column is so whippy it's stupid
[12:35:13] <_methods> i need to make some gussets for it to stiffen it up
[12:36:02] <archivist> my column was too flexible, I added a lot of stiffening
[12:36:03] <__rob2> be worried if tormach column was flexing cutting the above
[12:36:12] <__rob2> should be like cutting air
[12:36:25] <archivist> face milling is hard work
[12:36:32] <_methods> i'd be concerned if i got an x2 that wasn't whippy lol
[12:36:54] <_methods> but for the price it's kinda hard to beat
[12:37:01] <_methods> it's fun to mess with
[12:37:15] <_methods> can be frustrating at times though dealing with the poor quality
[12:37:47] <_methods> but $600 for a cnc mill isn't too bad
[12:38:05] <_methods> well with steppers, drivers and ballscrews probably closer to $900
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[13:42:41] <_methods> http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/03/more-than-13-million-https-websites-imperiled-by-new-decryption-attack/
[13:42:44] <_methods> oops
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[13:52:06] <MacGyverX> Hmm I am having great difficultly setting up the scale in the ini. Here’s what I am working with- 3x NEMA 23’s 1.8 Step angle, 200 steps per rev. The drivers are configured for 400 micro steps. The lead screw is a Tr8*8-2p (Screw Dia. 8mm, Pitch 2mm, Lead 8mm & it’s a 4 start) Can anyone help me figure out the scale number and what other parameters I need to change to get that dialed in?
[13:54:35] <__rob2> thats infinitely better with some bolts propping up the front
[13:57:38] <alex_joni> 400 micro steps?
[13:58:33] <alex_joni> MacGyverX: you have 2 turns/mm and 400x200=80000 steps/turn
[13:58:42] <alex_joni> so you have 40000 steps/mm
[13:59:00] <archivist> which is silly
[13:59:07] <alex_joni> what do you use for step generation? (stepgen and parport)?
[13:59:20] <MacGyverX> stepgen
[13:59:21] <alex_joni> that means you will probably max out at 1..2mm/sec
[13:59:34] <archivist> 1/2 step, 400 per rev is more sensible
[13:59:55] <alex_joni> even 10 micro steps is kinda acceptable
[14:00:23] <alex_joni> I remember reading a paper once that anything above 4 or 8 microsteps is basicly useless
[14:00:28] <MacGyverX> So It would be advised to change the ms from 1/8 to 1/4?
[14:00:41] <alex_joni> wait
[14:00:53] <alex_joni> you said "the drivers are configured for 300 micro steps"
[14:00:58] <alex_joni> you said "the drivers are configured for 400 micro steps"
[14:01:47] <alex_joni> I understand that as: you need to output 400 steps from stepgen before the motor moves 1 step
[14:01:50] <MacGyverX> Sorry - replace ms to pulse
[14:02:08] <gregcnc> 400 steps per mm or ?
[14:02:23] <MacGyverX> I’ve been up since yesterday screwing this- lack of sleep sorry for the error
[14:02:34] <MacGyverX> 1/4 - 400 pulse
[14:02:38] <alex_joni> 1/8 and 1/4 are completely different from 1/400
[14:02:54] <alex_joni> what does 1/4 - 400 pulse mean?
[14:03:14] <alex_joni> what kind of drivers do you have?
[14:03:19] <archivist> you probably have set 800 pulses per rev at 1/4
[14:03:38] <MacGyverX> On the drive it has 1/4 (4) - 400 pulse and what dip switches to configure (SW1,SW2,SW3)
[14:03:43] <MacGyverX> *driver
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[14:04:00] <alex_joni> got a partnumber/name for the driver?
[14:04:11] <MacGyverX> TD6560 v3
[14:04:16] <MacGyverX> 4A driver
[14:05:08] <archivist> 4 microsteps per step is 800 per rev
[14:05:29] <alex_joni> ok, it only has 1, 1/2, 1/8 and 1/16 settings
[14:05:45] <alex_joni> that is full step, half step, 1/8 steps and 1/16
[14:05:47] <MacGyverX> This one goes all they way up to 32
[14:05:47] <archivist> 1/2 is 400
[14:06:03] <alex_joni> 1/2 steps means 400 pulses/rev
[14:06:30] <alex_joni> 1/8 means 1600 pulses/rev
[14:06:40] <alex_joni> anything above that is not really useful imo
[14:06:51] <MacGyverX> So If I change it to 800 pulses, then it would be Pulse*Rev=scale?
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[14:08:18] <MacGyverX> Sorry for the stupid questions. I’ve normally just used stepconf in the pass. This is the first time having to set it manually.
[14:09:07] <gregcnc> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/ini-config.html#_axis__lt_num_gt_section
[14:09:20] <gregcnc> almost at the bottom is the stepper math
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[14:12:24] <MacGyverX> That’s what I using yesterday, but the gantry either moves at a good feedrate but the distant (in the DRO) is wildly wrong, or it takes about 15mins to move the 400mm
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[14:13:07] <archivist> measure how far it moved calc error fix
[14:13:20] <gregcnc> The only correct setting is the one that move matched the commanded distance
[14:13:51] <MacGyverX> That’s the issue I am having it figuring out how to do that.
[14:14:29] <gregcnc> OK 1/4 stepping = 800steps/rev
[14:14:48] <gregcnc> lead screw pitch is what?
[14:15:26] <MacGyverX> Tr8*8-2p (Screw Dia. 8mm, Pitch 2mm, Lead 8mm & it’s a 4 start)
[14:16:00] <archivist> 8mm lead is the only one you need to think about
[14:17:02] <gregcnc> 800steps/rev / 8mm = 100 steps/mm
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[14:20:24] <MacGyverX> ok
[14:20:32] <gregcnc> did it work?
[14:22:16] <MacGyverX> So the is scale = 100?
[14:22:29] <gregcnc> yes
[14:22:46] <MacGyverX> k saving and restarting LCNC
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[14:25:31] <MacGyverX> its moving but the feedrate is really, really slow. No matter what I manually set in the MDI (i.e. F2000)
[14:26:13] <gregcnc> that's irrelevant. Is scale correct?
[14:26:13] <alex_joni> depends on your max speed in traj and axis setting
[14:27:00] <MacGyverX> well it kind relevant if it takes and hr to move 2mm...
[14:27:24] <alex_joni> MacGyverX: not at this step
[14:27:26] <gregcnc> different issue if scale is wrong you can't make anything
[14:30:25] <alex_joni> the speeds you set next
[14:30:34] <alex_joni> you have speed and accel for each axis
[14:30:41] <alex_joni> and a global speed and accel in traj
[14:30:51] <alex_joni> the machine will only move with the lower of both
[14:31:57] <MacGyverX> k. I am moving it to 10mm. Just taking a while.
[14:32:21] <alex_joni> what are your speeds currently in the ini?
[14:33:49] <MacGyverX> MAX_VELOCITY ?
[14:34:00] <alex_joni> yup
[14:34:03] <MacGyverX> 1.0
[14:34:43] <alex_joni> that's 1mm/second
[14:35:35] <alex_joni> but remember there's a [TRAJ]MAX_VELOCITY and [AXIS_*]MAX_VELOCITY
[14:36:17] <alex_joni> you probably can go up to 30mm/sec with 100 steps/mm
[14:38:40] <MacGyverX> Okay, with the scale set to 175 I am able to move exactly 10mm with G1 X10 F200
[14:38:59] <MacGyverX> Going to change the MV to something higher then 1
[14:39:30] <gregcnc> why is scale not 100?
[14:41:14] <MacGyverX> @100 it only moved 6.10mm of the 10mm it was told to move
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[14:41:21] <gregcnc> but why
[14:41:25] <MacGyverX> ?
[14:41:29] <gregcnc> the math doesn't lie
[14:41:33] <MacGyverX> I don't know?
[14:42:37] <_methods> is there any backlash in your system?
[14:42:55] <_methods> do a 5mm move first then do a 10mm same direction and measure them both
[14:44:01] <MacGyverX> k
[14:44:45] <gregcnc> 10mm is 1.25 turns of the lead screw in this case. I hope there is not 4mm of backlash
[14:45:29] <_methods> i would hope not but you never know
[14:45:51] <gregcnc> coupling could be slipping
[14:46:03] <_methods> i'd just rule out the lash first if all the other math is correct
[14:47:22] <_methods> if all the digital stuff is correct then it would be time to rule out physical problems
[14:47:27] <MacGyverX> X/Y both moved exactly 10mm with the scale set to 175
[14:47:57] <MacGyverX> Both axis have anti-backlash nuts.
[14:48:06] <gregcnc> is there a gear reduction on the axis?
[14:48:13] <MacGyverX> Nope. Direct
[14:48:30] <MacGyverX> NEMA 23 > Coupler > Screw
[14:49:23] <gregcnc> that's 1400 steps/ rev which makes little sense
[14:50:01] <_methods> are you using machinekit or something?
[14:50:43] <MacGyverX> yeah
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[14:58:14] <MacGyverX> k setting it back to 100 and moving the axis (G1 X5 F500) 5mm the actual is 3.27mm. When returning back to 0 (G1 X0 F500) it return right back on the point. When i move the gantry far from 0 and move +5 then back to -5 then back even farther -5 (So 0mm > +5mm then back to 0mm then -5mm) it only moves 3.27~8mm
[14:58:42] <MacGyverX> Same for the Y axis
[14:58:56] <MacGyverX> So the distance it consistent
[15:00:58] <MacGyverX> Then moving 5mm then 10mm at the same postion it moves 3.27mm for the 5mm then 6.11mm for the 10mm
[15:01:48] <archivist> you guessed your lead wrong probably
[15:02:35] <MacGyverX> what do you mean?
[15:02:37] <gregcnc> that's my guess, but that screw is a common part.
[15:02:51] <MacGyverX> Those values are from the from the manufacture
[15:02:53] <gregcnc> measure screw pitch
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[15:03:04] <archivist> no guessing, measure
[15:03:16] <_methods> who knows what's going on in machinekit
[15:03:31] <gregcnc> maybe they're using the new math
[15:03:35] <_methods> lol
[15:04:15] <MacGyverX> Pitch is the spacing between the threads?
[15:05:09] <gregcnc> yes measure over 10 or 20
[15:05:50] <archivist> the lead is what you want not pitch
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[15:06:20] <CaptHindsight> _methods: I think they are still stuck with how to run video at usable speeds without the need for a 2nd ARM board or PC
[15:06:43] <_methods> hehe
[15:06:46] <MacGyverX> So which am I looking for pitch or lead?
[15:07:21] <gregcnc> we really want lead, but if you're sure it's 4 start's well figure it out
[15:07:29] <archivist> one is the multiple of the other
[15:07:31] <gregcnc> we'll
[15:08:01] <CaptHindsight> _methods: they also seem to be stuck on that the hardware has to be TI and Altera
[15:08:29] <archivist> and stuck on not providing their own support :)
[15:08:34] <_methods> yeah
[15:08:46] <_methods> would be nice if they would start their own irc room
[15:08:54] <MacGyverX> Okay. 10 threads is 17.63mm the distance between threads is 1mm
[15:09:16] <CaptHindsight> "think different just to be different"
[15:09:20] <MacGyverX> And yeah is 4 start
[15:09:47] <archivist> 10 threads should be 10mm at 1mm pitch, measurement error
[15:09:54] <gregcnc> did you measure 9?
[15:10:37] <archivist> 2mm should have been 20mm
[15:10:40] <MacGyverX> yeah sorry 19,25mm
[15:11:05] <archivist> still in error by a 100/175
[15:11:08] <CaptHindsight> "laying the groundwork for user interface platforms like tablets and phones"
[15:11:46] <CaptHindsight> why isn't there a working version over USB yet? Mach did it years ago :)
[15:11:52] <_methods> lol
[15:13:47] <CaptHindsight> or do they mean machine control on a PC but a remote UI on you phone or tablet?
[15:13:54] <Sync_> yes
[15:13:57] <_methods> i don't know but i hate my phone
[15:14:03] <CaptHindsight> like they way X works
[15:14:06] <_methods> last thing i want to do with it is crash a cnc
[15:14:22] <Sync_> well, a remote UI would be nice for a lot of things
[15:14:52] <MacGyverX> you can do that with lcnc with xterm.
[15:15:52] <MacGyverX> I am going to assume the 19.25 to 20mm error is due to the fact I had to measure the scew on the gantry.
[15:16:16] <MacGyverX> So 10 threads is 20mm and the pitch is 2mm
[15:16:37] <_methods> isn't that how you have it configured now
[15:16:50] <CaptHindsight> I think there was some plan to make $ with this but it hasn't worked out
[15:17:25] <MacGyverX> with the scale set to 100? I guess so? I just dropped in the value gregcnc suggested.
[15:17:42] <archivist> so your stepper/micro stepping is not what you said it was
[15:18:17] <MacGyverX> Okay, let me rip the back panel off and look again...
[15:21:28] <CaptHindsight> it also runs on Samsung ARM
http://blog.machinekit.io/2015/03/machinekit-running-on-odroid-c1.html
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[15:23:20] <CaptHindsight> _methods: the worst app on my Google Nexus phone is the phone app
[15:23:54] <CaptHindsight> it's like it was written by someone that is new to how phones and calls work
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[15:26:18] <archivist> it had to have a new ui to not get sued
[15:28:22] <CaptHindsight> heh, so it should be another 15-20 years before this stupidity is over
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[15:31:38] <gregcnc> capthindsight major weather fail last night
[15:33:03] <MacGyverX> Okay, I've changed the dips on the drivers. They were wrong. Sorry about that. Now with the scale set to 100 it moves the 10mm exactly. Just at a really slow reedrate.
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[15:33:25] <gregcnc> math wins!
[15:34:13] <MacGyverX> Yeah.
[15:35:23] <MacGyverX> How do I go about increasing the default feedrate?
[15:36:03] <MacGyverX> changing the MAX_VELOCITY to anything higher then 1 throws a joint error
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[15:46:55] <gregcnc> MAX_VELOCITY exists in two places
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[15:48:37] <MacGyverX> With-in the [AXIS_<X>] and where else?
[15:49:07] <gregcnc> [TRAJ]
[15:49:55] <MacGyverX> MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY?
[15:50:04] <MacGyverX> If not then it's missing from there
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[15:51:35] <gregcnc> i know nothing about machinekit
[15:54:33] <MacGyverX> Okay
[15:54:41] <MacGyverX> I guess I am on my own then.
[15:54:45] <MacGyverX> Thanks for the help.
[15:54:53] <gregcnc> that sounds like the same thing, but check their docs
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[16:23:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Allwinner-H3-Quad-Core-A7-1G_60375434197.html If I get Linuxcnc working on this with hm2_eth and Mesa 7i92 is it of interest to anyone?
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[16:38:46] <jdh> I would applaud your efforrs
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[16:46:14] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Does it have proper ethernet or is it going through USB internally?
[16:48:03] <CaptHindsight> integrated Ethernet
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[16:49:06] <CaptHindsight> the Allwinner SOC's that target set top boxes have integrated ethernet
[16:49:27] <CaptHindsight> the versions that target tablets have USB and SPI
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[17:08:29] <FloppyDisk> CaptHindsight - I'd be interested.
[17:09:05] <FloppyDisk> I was trying to see how you'd connect to a LAN, but it has wifi for that and dedicated ethernet port for 7i92, etc.
[17:10:56] <FloppyDisk> I was thinking the 20 pc minimum would be a problem, but that's like $500 bucks. Shippng might be $100, but it's still not bad.
[17:12:38] <Jymmm> Antec mini itx case + 150W PS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129081
[17:13:07] <FloppyDisk> $$$
[17:14:43] <FloppyDisk> Just add harddrive, includes computer:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272031193166
[17:14:53] <FloppyDisk> 'wallace' approved...
[17:18:08] <gregcnc> I recently two HP 8000 Elite no HDD for 60 delivered.
[17:20:43] <Jymmm> FloppyDisk: I have one of those already =)
[17:22:00] <gregcnc> I thought I might put one in a machine running off parport but so far it's been maxing out at 250,000. I haven't looked at it and not sure what to try.
[17:23:00] <neckro23> I just built one with a parallel port for $110
[17:23:17] <neckro23> $40 for mobo + cpu, $20 for 4gb ram, $50 for case+psu
[17:27:15] <Jymmm> that one that FloppyDisk linked to HAS paraport
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[17:29:37] <FloppyDisk> gregcnc I got the 2 for $60 as well. I don't know how they make money on that, the shipping must have been $30 or so...
[17:30:16] <FloppyDisk> gregcnc - sorry, I wouldn't know what to try to increase the speed. don't know enough about it:-(
[17:30:53] <FloppyDisk> BTW - I got the link originally from Kirk Wallace off the emc mailing list...
[17:35:42] <FloppyDisk> Jymmm, here's another case that looks neat as well...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811108196
[17:36:19] <neckro23> FloppyDisk: hey, that's the exact case I used actually
[17:36:52] <FloppyDisk> It was linked from Jymmm's first post, looks like a nice case, 200w vs. 150w ps.
[17:37:36] <FloppyDisk> And, $25 less expensive.
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[17:38:29] <neckro23> yeah I was tempted to get one of the tiny mini-itx cases but I wanted at least one expansion slot just in case
[17:49:14] <CaptHindsight> FloppyDisk: shipping from China is cheap, 20 pcs in ~1 week is ~$10
[17:50:08] <CaptHindsight> 2 day express might be $100
[17:51:11] <jdh> subsidized shippinh
[17:51:31] <jdh> is it safe to give aliexpress a CC numbet?
[17:51:53] <cradek> I sure have had no problems
[17:52:35] <CaptHindsight> hmm Antec mini-itx case $75, 4U ATX case $55
http://www.microcenter.com/product/352972/4U_Industrial_Rackmount_Computer_Case
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[17:56:50] <SpeedEvil> jdh: they haven't charged me when I wasn't expecting other than through my own issues
[17:57:06] <SpeedEvil> (check something isn't in the post before ordering something you forgot)
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[18:09:15] <FloppyDisk> CaptHindsight - those shipping prices are unreal. Cheaper to ship from China than from CA to Nevada...
[18:10:39] <_methods> yeah i'd love to order stuff from mouser
[18:10:44] <_methods> but the shipping kills it
[18:10:51] <_methods> so it's cheaper to get stuff from china
[18:10:54] <_methods> how sad is that
[18:11:07] <_methods> the component prices aren't bad
[18:11:09] <CaptHindsight> FloppyDisk: yeah, easily
[18:11:15] <_methods> but the shipping is just stooopid
[18:11:30] <CaptHindsight> USPS flat rate is best
[18:11:57] <CaptHindsight> 20lbs for ~$16 with insurance for $1k
[18:12:20] <FloppyDisk> USPS flat rate is best, unless it's mid-sized and less than 1 lb, then first class or something like that is about $5 of $6.
[18:12:23] <CaptHindsight> days anywhere in the USA except for the superboonies
[18:13:20] <CaptHindsight> 2 days
[18:19:12] <CaptHindsight> FloppyDisk: is also has USB for a ethernet dongle for LAN, the integrated NIC would be for the 7i92
[18:19:52] <FloppyDisk> Yes - I thought about that, LAN could be wifi or ethernet dongle.. That would be fine. You'd need a hub for keyboard/mouse/pendant, etc.
[18:20:10] <FloppyDisk> I think it's soooo cute.
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[18:26:29] <maxcnc> hi all ;-)
[18:26:39] <maxcnc> snowing in germany right now
[18:26:52] -!- amnesic_away has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
[18:27:01] <CaptHindsight> same here!
[18:27:58] <_methods> 75f here hahahahahahahhahah
[18:28:17] <skunkworks> 3 inches. And everyone forgot how to drive in it....
[18:29:23] <archivist> today was warmer outside than indoors!
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[18:29:54] <CaptHindsight> the Amlogic SOC's also have integrated ethernet and they posted Linux source
[18:30:30] <maxcnc> Folks how is the tool caled to get the garden work done moving earth like farmers
[18:30:47] <CaptHindsight> a plow?
[18:30:49] <maxcnc> the trunslater does not give me a answer
[18:31:02] <CaptHindsight> how does it move the earth?
[18:31:18] <CaptHindsight> plow, tiller, etc
[18:31:33] <maxcnc> by hand to dig in
[18:32:21] <CaptHindsight> post a picture to be sure
[18:32:41] <maxcnc> shovel
[18:32:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.alllondontoolshire.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/gardening-tools.jpg which one?
[18:32:56] <CaptHindsight> the blue one is a shovel
[18:33:01] <gregcnc> just like schuafel?
[18:33:22] <skunkworks> hoe
[18:33:29] <maxcnc> https://openclipart.org/search/?query=shovel
[18:33:31] <maxcnc> thanks
[18:33:41] <CaptHindsight> who you callin a hoe? :p
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[18:34:01] <Deejay> hohoho!
[18:34:04] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:34:31] <gregcnc> apparently excavators are also called hoes
[18:34:40] <archivist> backhoes
[18:34:57] <archivist> also known as JCB
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[18:35:20] <gregcnc> I'll have to work on friday nights after goldrush is over
[18:35:46] <archivist> my day worked at JCB
[18:35:49] <archivist> dad
[18:36:16] <CaptHindsight> my be 5cm of Schnee on the ground now
[18:37:29] -!- djinni` has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
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[18:37:36] <gregcnc> weather people weren't completely wrong
[18:38:08] <CaptHindsight> looks like it'll be over in another hour
[18:39:22] * Deejay also wants Schnee
[18:39:38] <_methods> scheeballen from rotenburg
[18:39:46] <maxcnc> Deejay: yeah but most doont like it here in the south
[18:39:53] <CaptHindsight> Schnee cones
[18:39:58] <_methods> schneeballen even
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[18:40:24] <maxcnc> Folks what icon woudt you choose for a painter
[18:40:46] <_methods> an ear
[18:41:01] <skunkworks> severed ear?
[18:41:04] <_methods> yep
[18:41:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.free-icons-download.net/images/icon-painter-71754.png
[18:41:19] <CaptHindsight> floating head
[18:41:33] <maxcnc> im on openclipart
[18:41:48] <maxcnc> what is the thing called the paint is in
[18:42:19] <CaptHindsight> bucket
[18:42:50] <CaptHindsight> the applicator is called a roller
[18:43:10] <maxcnc> https://openclipart.org/detail/171907/spray-paint
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[18:45:20] <CaptHindsight> https://www.iconexperience.com/_img/i_collection_png/512x512/plain/spray_can.png
[18:45:46] <maxcnc> ok next to find is the thing where the powder is in for cement concrede wall...
[18:46:05] <CaptHindsight> Lackspraydose
[18:46:23] <CaptHindsight> a sack?
[18:46:25] <maxcnc> https://openclipart.org/detail/171319/three-sacks-of-cement
[18:46:38] <Deejay> powder for cement concrete wall?
[18:46:44] <Deejay> what is the german word? :D
[18:46:54] <Deejay> ah
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[18:47:12] <maxcnc> sackzement ;-)
[18:47:51] <maxcnc> and now last what to go for a toolshop i got a hammer a wrench a drill screws
[18:47:56] <Deejay> what are you doing, some kind of clipart-comic? ;)
[18:47:57] <CaptHindsight> what's a bus full of cement powder called? buszement?
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[18:48:08] <maxcnc> is there a special word fpr Bold and nuts btogether
[18:48:17] <Deejay> zementbus ;)
[18:48:23] <CaptHindsight> bolt and nut?
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[18:48:36] <Deejay> screw ;)
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[18:48:40] <maxcnc> Deejay: ein plakat 18000x8000pixel
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[18:49:09] <Deejay> ah
[18:49:15] <gregcnc> fasteners
[18:49:30] <maxcnc> are this bolts that fasten Bridges or towers the same caled then midium or littel ones in English
[18:50:01] <CaptHindsight> maxcnc: they are more defined by the type of thread
[18:50:22] <CaptHindsight> and materials they were typically used for along with the head
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[18:50:45] <CaptHindsight> machine screw, sheet metal screw, lag screw
[18:51:02] <maxcnc> someone can spell whasher please
[18:51:12] <CaptHindsight> washer
[18:52:01] <maxcnc> grommet sampler whats that for
[18:52:39] <maxcnc> is this the thing that shades the tube frome the wall in bathrooms
[18:52:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cabletiesandmore.com/images/grommets/large_grommets.jpg like this made of rubber?
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[18:53:01] <Deejay> wallace and grommet :D
[18:53:17] <CaptHindsight> my first thought as well :)
[18:53:20] <Deejay> (yeah, gromit, i know)
[18:53:23] <maxcnc> ok one last thing the part that the wareer comes out in the bathroom at the handwash side
[18:53:51] <maxcnc> water
[18:54:13] <CaptHindsight> shades the tub? shower curtain if it's just a flexible film or fabric
[18:54:32] <maxcnc> waterdrain is the oposit i guess
[18:54:41] <CaptHindsight> if it's solid and made of glass or plastic then it's a door
[18:55:07] <maxcnc> tap ;-)
[18:55:18] <CaptHindsight> tap, faucet
[18:55:49] <CaptHindsight> http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/water-faucet-flowing-water-isolated-white-28018128.jpg
[18:56:02] <Deejay> hmm, i thought a tap is to make threads for screws ;)
[18:56:04] <maxcnc> https://openclipart.org/detail/169471/tap
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[18:56:46] <CaptHindsight> kitchen tap is for making what types of threads?
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[18:57:00] <maxcnc> Thanks for your help im off for today Have a cool super thuesday and think about the futhure bevore voting
[18:57:17] <maxcnc> BY Gn8
[18:57:22] <Deejay> and dont vote for donald ;)
[18:57:29] <maxcnc> always a plesure to be here
[18:57:32] <Deejay> bye max
[18:57:38] <CaptHindsight> very silly party
[18:57:51] <maxcnc> Deejay: du bist doch hier in Deutschland
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[18:58:11] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31FFTx6AKmU Election Night Special
[18:58:12] <Deejay> maxcnc, yes
[18:58:37] <maxcnc> könntest du dich mal hier verklicken ob das so geht was ich da so fabriziert habe ?
http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/
[18:58:54] <maxcnc> die sortimentkataloge im speziellen
[18:58:59] <maxcnc> bis morgen
[18:59:03] <maxcnc> DANKE
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[19:00:19] <Deejay> 0o
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[20:01:46] <gambakufu> why is there a split between 2.6 and 2.7? what's the difference?
[20:04:25] <skunkworks> split?
[20:06:02] * archivist points at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Released_2.7.X
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[20:07:55] <joem_> i'm trying to find a more powerful motor for my mill, somebody suggested treadmill motor
[20:08:04] <joem_> they're all single direction, but i'd like to eventually do tapping operations
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[20:08:38] <archivist> treadmill is dc usually therefore bidirectional
[20:09:00] <gambakufu> maybe branch is a better word? I mean, what is the major difference that's causing the both the 2.6 and 2.7 branches to be updated?
[20:09:23] <joem_> archivist, yeah some use angled brushes though and if they run backwards, the brushes get super worn
[20:09:26] <joem_> lots of sparks flying
[20:09:30] <archivist> note the second line from bottom
[20:10:15] <gambakufu> I see. so it's still being tested?
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[20:11:09] <archivist> no?
[20:12:10] -!- chris_99 [chris_99!~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:16:50] <cradek> sometimes after you make a new release branch, and a new major release with new features like 2.7.0, you find bugs in a previous branch like 2.5 or 2.6, and you fix them for the benefit of people still using those versions
[20:17:19] <cradek> this is very normal for projects that are dedicated to giving their users stable and usable software
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[21:14:00] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:37:03] <MrSunshine_> hmm, anyone has any data on the smallest bend radius over a pulley for a steel wire ?
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[21:40:14] <MrTrick> Morning! Has anyone tried designing a corexy setup?
[21:41:10] <MrTrick> I've got an arty light-duty requirement, and I'm wondering if I can use corexy without any gantry - just have the belts hanging off of a shuttle on each side.
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[21:45:58] <MrTrick> (The 'gantryless' part will be hanging vertically, not horizontally, and a little wobble can be tolerated)
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[21:53:53] <yasnak> well, new k16e citizen installed. control is different but nothing you can't learn with a 12 pack and time.
https://vid.me/jyUv i am definately not good with a camera
[21:56:53] <PetefromTn_> looks like a nice compact machine
[22:02:40] <yasnak> not bad, not used to these new machines
[22:03:12] <yasnak> we have four different new machines, ontop of what we already have. my brain lost capacity long ago
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[22:26:08] <CaptHindsight> yasnak: I find that learning diminishes with each beer but optimism tends to grow :)
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[22:35:21] <_methods> those citizens are nice
[22:36:12] <malcom2073> ssi, you need a new toy:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTONOMOUS-ROBOTIC-VEHICLE-DRIVERLESS-car-wireless-toy-DIESEL-ATV-XUV-/161918640823?hash=item25b31a62b7%3Ag%3ADH4AAOSwNyFWb6Ir
[22:36:29] <malcom2073> (disclaimer, I don't know the guy selling that, but I helped build and maintain most of the 16 that were produced)
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[22:51:24] <yasnak> awesome machines, wish i could fast forward to being an expert
[22:51:42] <malcom2073> They were pretty sweet
[22:52:14] <malcom2073> They're not worth nearly $27k though heh, it's all 20 year old tech
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[22:58:14] <andypugh> What be ye discussing?
[22:58:25] <malcom2073> andypugh: Someone selling robots I used to work on:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTONOMOUS-ROBOTIC-VEHICLE-DRIVERLESS-car-wireless-toy-DIESEL-ATV-XUV-/161918640823?hash=item25b31a62b7%3Ag%3ADH4AAOSwNyFWb6Ir
[22:59:01] <andypugh> Hmm, they are re-starting RobotWars in the UK..
[22:59:19] <malcom2073> At 2 tons, it's a bit out of the weight category of most of that stuff heh
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[22:59:42] <andypugh> Only by an order of magnitude
[22:59:52] <malcom2073> Silly powers of 10
[23:01:08] <DaViruz> andypugh: how was the skiing?
[23:01:08] <malcom2073> Heh, I emailed the seller, he's gonna pay me to come out and try and get it running for him
[23:01:56] <andypugh> Does he want to pay me too? I am already due out to the US this month to get a prototype Ford Diesel running :-)
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[23:02:37] <malcom2073> Heh, the engine isn't stopping it from running, the computers are
[23:02:56] <andypugh> DaViruz: The skiing was great. Most enjoyable. So much so that, given an unexpected chink of back-pay I am looking to go again :-)
[23:03:20] <DaViruz> where did you go?
[23:04:00] <andypugh> malcom2073: It’s the computers I work on. And I know just enough to know that I can’t do a single thing with a VW engine except plug into the OBD and look for DTCs.
[23:04:10] <andypugh> DaViruz: Zauchensee
[23:04:11] <malcom2073> andypugh: Not the diesel computers, the robotic computers :P
[23:04:22] <malcom2073> The diesel engine doesn't have a comptuer
[23:04:24] <malcom2073> computer*
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[23:05:07] <malcom2073> At least, not anymore haha
[23:05:10] <andypugh> It’s a turbo-diesel. It will have a computer.
[23:05:53] <andypugh> (Or, if it doesn’t, I doubt it could ever run)
[23:06:26] <malcom2073> They seemed to run just fine, though run is relative for those things. They were either stopped, or running at 3000rpm
[23:06:43] <malcom2073> They run a hydraulic pump, which drives the wheels
[23:06:58] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[23:07:18] <andypugh> It claims to conform to 2001 EPA emissions. I wonder if it does :-)
[23:07:34] <malcom2073> Heh... doubt it
[23:07:38] <malcom2073> They were smoky things
[23:07:40] <yasnak> definately don't like the coolant line setup on the citizen
[23:07:53] <yasnak> no good place to mount high pressure on it without having the tooling for it
[23:09:11] <andypugh> malcom2073: Actually, it’s a vacuum wastegate diesel with a mechanical pump. That was very old-school even when it was made.
[23:09:31] <malcom2073> Good eye heh
[23:10:06] <malcom2073> I believe they were generator motors in a previous life, made to run a single rpm, and never die
[23:11:26] <DaViruz> what's meant with mechanical pump with regard to diesels? i thought they all were mechanical
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[23:12:13] <DaViruz> i've kind of taken it to mean the ones called mechanical are synchronized to the engine, where the modern (common rail) ones aren't
[23:12:29] <DaViruz> though admittedly diesel pumps are witchcraft to me :)
[23:12:37] <DaViruz> along with automatic transmissions
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[23:13:30] <andypugh> I mean that is has mechanical fuel dosing. There is a variable stroke pump that feeds each injector in turn. More modern engines use a “common rail” where the pump supplies a (computer controlled) pressure of up to 2500 bar to a common rail, then each injector is electronically controlled to inject that high pressure fuel to the cylinders.
[23:14:34] <DaViruz> i kind of like the vw pumpdüse-engines.
[23:14:47] <DaViruz> philosophically at least
[23:15:40] <andypugh> They work quite well, and give very good atomization, but only one injection per stroke.
[23:15:45] <andypugh> (I think)
[23:16:13] <DaViruz> probably, the one's i've seen has been operated by a single camshaft lobe
[23:16:54] <DaViruz> i think my alps visit will have to wait until next year, can't find anyone willing to join me on short notice
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[23:25:24] <andypugh> Join Ski Club GB, sign up for one of these, then you don’t need friends.
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/skiclubfreshtracks/search.aspx#.VtYk2MfQboM
[23:27:26] <andypugh> (I do a lot of their holidays for just that reason)
[23:27:30] <DaViruz> i'm much too shy for that :)
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[23:28:13] <andypugh> The holidays all seem to include infinite free wine witrh dinner. Shyness is easily overcome :-)
[23:30:16] <DaViruz> i think i'll settle with trysil in norway for this year, only a 4 hour drive from here
[23:30:25] <Sync_> Scandi-lous Girls Weekend kek
[23:30:33] <DaViruz> and fairly respectable 730m drop
[23:30:42] <DaViruz> (at least by my standards) :)
[23:30:49] <andypugh> They offfer a few holidays with all single rooms for the very shy:
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/skiclubfreshtracks/search.aspx?zone=SingleRooms#.VtYl68fQboM (But “PE” means over 50 and is mandatory if over 60)
[23:31:35] <DaViruz> over 50 as in 50 years old?
[23:31:42] <andypugh> DaViruz: Yes.
[23:32:05] <andypugh> SkiclubGB is over 100 years old. Some of the memmbers may be too ;-)
[23:32:12] <DaViruz> not sure i want to wait 15 years though.. :)
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[23:32:41] <andypugh> That’s my point, you would want to avoid “PE” holidays.
[23:33:06] <DaViruz> though i usually get along better with that demographic, we seem to have more in common.. :)
[23:34:05] <andypugh> Yeah, well, if you are 35 that’s at the low-end of Skiclub members. I think the youngest on my last SCGB holiday was 27.
[23:34:28] <andypugh> Oldest was 63. Best skier was 55.
[23:35:00] <DaViruz> would it work out to join one if departing from sweden?
[23:35:50] <andypugh> Yes, many don’t include a flight anyway, and if they do you can re-arrange.
[23:37:13] <DaViruz> pricing seems kind of steep without travel
[23:37:37] <andypugh> What ski-club supply is mainly the hotel and the mountain guides / instructors or a Ski-Club Leader (who does not guide or instruct)
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[23:38:11] <andypugh> I do the off piste ones. When you factor in 6 days of mountain guide it looks better…
[23:38:29] <andypugh> (And some have travel, you need to look)
[23:38:57] <andypugh> The St Foy weekend that I am looking at included Train all the way. Which was fun.
[23:40:52] <DaViruz> i always forget about the tunnel.
[23:44:24] <andypugh> I don’t approve of the tunnel. If we leave the EU we should floof it. Just to be sure :-)
[23:44:57] <andypugh> Or we could flood is. “floof” is a verb still waiting for a meaning :-)
[23:45:05] <DaViruz> i have similar feelings about our bridge to denmark.. :)
[23:45:31] <DaViruz> (though we're still continentally connected without it)
[23:45:42] <andypugh> When did the Danes last try to invade?
[23:47:02] <DaViruz> seems like yesterday
[23:47:23] <DaViruz> before the bridge they at least had to wait until the channel froze
[23:47:53] <andypugh> The UK hasn’t tried to invade anyone for many centuries. We have _accidentally_ invaded most of the world, but not deliberately. Whereas we have had to fend of invasions by the Danes, the Spanish, the Dutch, The French and the Germans.
[23:48:48] <DaViruz> don't forget argentina :-)
[23:49:28] <andypugh> http://www.humanosphere.org/basics/2013/08/map-of-the-day-where-the-brits-never-invaded/
[23:50:26] <DaViruz> even russia huh
[23:50:39] <andypugh> But not Sweden. Yet
[23:54:59] <DaViruz> i wonder what the criteria is
[23:55:44] <andypugh> Many were for very specific reasons. Many were even quite good and defensible reasons (Not China, that’s just embrassing, we invaded because they wouldn’t buy our Opium and trade it for tea). By the 1850s there was a terrible worry that any time they sent the army and navy somewhere they might accidentally end up running it. That was a worry in China and also in Abyssinia. The Abyssinia invasion is actually
[23:55:44] <andypugh> fascinating, as it was the only invasion where the entire world, including the UK, expected failure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Expedition_to_Abyssinia
[23:57:23] <andypugh> To put the Abyssinia expedition in perspective, they funded it by adding a penny in the pound to income tax (by popular consent)
[23:57:47] <DaViruz> i recently hears somewhere that a major reason for the strength of the british navy is because british soil can't support it's population, so a blockade would be disastrous
[23:58:40] <andypugh> That’s not the actual reason, though it is true.
[23:59:39] <andypugh> Actually, if you are talkling about today, then it is true that we can’t, but not true that we have a navy capable of doing anything about a blockade.
[23:59:39] <DaViruz> perhaps it was a reason historically
