#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-01-21

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[00:06:15] <FloppyDisk5_25> os1r1s after the dc power supply.
[00:06:36] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk5_25 So on the inputs to the 3 servo drivers?
[00:08:03] <FloppyDisk5_25> not sure what you have going on for the 'inputs to the 3 servo drivers' and not sure how you plan to design your system.
[00:08:33] <os1r1s> I guess that should be DC input to the servo motors itself
[00:08:53] <os1r1s> Wait no, it goes thorugh the driver
[00:09:38] <os1r1s> So from the power supply you have DC going into 1 or more servo drivers. Do you need one fuse per driver or just a single fuse for all drivers?
[00:09:46] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk5_25 And thank you for your input
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[00:10:22] <FloppyDisk5_25> I think it depends... The best way is one per drive, however I think on my mill, I don't have any??
[00:10:26] <FloppyDisk5_25> I'll ahve to check.
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[00:11:00] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk5_25 I've not done a servo system, so this is a fun journey :)
[00:11:07] <FloppyDisk5_25> eh, I think I have one fuse, not sure...
[00:11:37] <FloppyDisk5_25> I have seen (or maybe made) machines w/ lot's of fusing and some w/ not-so much...
[00:11:57] <FloppyDisk5_25> I think a happy medium is best, enough to protect your equipment, but don't go crazy.
[00:12:40] <FloppyDisk5_25> And, you could spend hours just on fusing... And, then breakers vs fuses is whole other conversation...
[00:13:15] <FloppyDisk5_25> Again, if you have one before your servo's, that's probably okay.
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[00:14:18] <FloppyDisk5_25> One advantage of multiple fuses is that you can disable parts of the circuit while testing.
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[00:15:41] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk5_25 Breakers would be nice, but this is a smallish system. So fuses are probably plenty
[00:16:22] <FloppyDisk5_25> I think they'd be fine...
[00:16:26] <FloppyDisk5_25> fuses - that is.
[00:16:48] <os1r1s> Are you using a g0704 type system or something much larger?
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[00:38:30] <FloppyDisk5_25> Oh - I have a supermax bridgeport type mill.
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[01:02:52] <andypugh> Night all
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[01:07:16] <thesaint>
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[05:08:13] <nos__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3uGJGzUYCI
[05:14:09] <XXCoder> hey new old
[05:14:12] <XXCoder> stock
[05:14:51] <XXCoder> nos__: your video?
[05:17:50] <nos__> No
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[05:18:00] <XXCoder> oh too bad. guy speaks very clearly
[05:18:14] <XXCoder> so clear that there is very small autocaption error
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[05:29:26] <aventtini6> BOBO i have fix it
[05:29:34] <aventtini6> y01 y01
[05:29:43] <aventtini6> is a messure system error
[05:30:10] <aventtini6> the glass scale had some dirt on it
[05:30:34] <aventtini6> i use some alcohol and now machine works perfect
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[05:59:07] <CaptHindsight> I use alcohol as well to get things done
[05:59:44] <CaptHindsight> mostly likely in a few minutes :)
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[06:45:38] <XXCoder> check this out https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1866188127/limitless-10-cnc-combo-3d-printer-controller?ref=category
[06:45:47] <XXCoder> zero support so far though lol
[06:46:09] <XXCoder> and no wonder. high price!
[06:46:23] <XXCoder> $150 nets you a mug
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[06:48:35] <SpeedEvil> Is it made of tungsten carbide?
[06:49:24] <XXCoder> heh
[06:49:47] <XXCoder> anyway it wont happen with all that chinese controllers for far less than $350
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[07:08:49] <archivist> I will not be participating
[07:09:14] <XXCoder> me either, such a ripoff
[07:09:24] <trentster> Whats the point of having a combined controller?
[07:09:48] <archivist> none
[07:10:04] <trentster> you need a different type of machine for 3d vs cnc cutting so does it not make sense to have 2 x seperate machines with their own controllers that can be used indipendantly and simultaneously?
[07:10:05] <archivist> especially when two is cheaper
[07:10:22] <XXCoder> way cheaper
[07:10:37] <XXCoder> $350 you can buy 2 complete very cheap machines
[07:11:02] <trentster> Some of the things I see on kickstarter these days are plain dumb!
[07:11:27] <archivist> £6.50 gets me a bob and I can get better separate drivers to suit the machine
[07:11:39] <SpeedEvil> https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/advanced?ref=nav_search&term=3d+printer - holy crap
[07:11:45] <SpeedEvil> 379 products
[07:11:45] <archivist> fscking idiots
[07:12:14] <XXCoder> one is named firstborn
[07:12:21] <XXCoder> wonder if it means I gonna give firstborn?
[07:12:33] <archivist> should one ask those projects if hobbing is possible :)
[07:13:42] <XXCoder> heh one dont send any machine just plans
[07:13:46] <XXCoder> so worthy :P
[07:13:52] <archivist> it is yet another jump on the bandwagon project
[07:14:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.advancetecheng.com/ hers' the guys website behind the project
[07:14:10] <SpeedEvil> archivist: you can print any gear on any 3d printer, hobbing is oldskool!
[07:14:11] <SpeedEvil> :)
[07:14:16] <XXCoder> yeah NOTHING unique about it
[07:14:50] <trentster> I also read somewhere that like 50% of the projects that get full funding on kickstarter never manage to honour delivery and fail to develop the product
[07:14:58] <archivist> those crappy 3d printers cannot manage the feature size
[07:15:12] <SpeedEvil> archivist: I was not being 100% serious
[07:15:19] <archivist> I know
[07:15:46] <trentster> I think a ton of folks underestimate how hard design, fabrication, parts outsource manufacture and logistics can be!
[07:15:48] <SpeedEvil> archivist: I have sort of been wondering how to economically make or source cheap power transmission gears.
[07:16:34] <archivist> economic is get a subcontractor to make them
[07:17:12] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[07:17:17] <trentster> I have been toting with the idea of making some gravity gears, the idea is pretty ingenious. http://gravitylight.org/
[07:17:17] <SpeedEvil> In small quantities
[07:17:24] <archivist> just look at the prices on HPCs site
[07:17:53] <SpeedEvil> trentster: the problem arises once you do some sums.
[07:18:21] <SpeedEvil> Compare with a tiny solar panel, and a LiFePO4 cell run at lower than nominal voltage with a small swing
[07:19:11] <SpeedEvil> archivist: Oh - I forgot about hpc
[07:19:11] <CaptHindsight> just get your small children to power it
[07:19:24] <archivist> SpeedEvil, crap PDF sizes http://www.hpcgears.com/
[07:19:33] <SpeedEvil> I think I actually have a paper catalog
[07:19:45] <SpeedEvil> I probably composted it though
[07:20:03] <archivist> CaptHindsight, old free and single no available slaves
[07:20:28] <XXCoder> trentster: thats why kickstarter now has certain requirements to open a project
[07:20:30] <archivist> I have a collection of hpc catalogues
[07:20:33] <CaptHindsight> import from India, they might already speak English
[07:20:35] <XXCoder> like prototypes and basic plans
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[07:21:03] <trentster> XXCoder: oh I didnt know that, I have never run a kickstarter campaign
[07:21:24] <CaptHindsight> seems like a plan, orphans get adopted and people get power and light
[07:21:25] <trentster> are they $$ requirements?
[07:21:32] <archivist> their really big fail http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35356147
[07:21:41] <XXCoder> indiegogo dont have any requirements, nor do they guantee any result.,
[07:22:09] <XXCoder> archivist: yeah they went stright to production. no prototypes. most of machines broke or was already brokenb
[07:22:17] <XXCoder> among other mess
[07:22:24] <archivist> basically the idiots could not design and make what they promised
[07:22:31] <trentster> CaptHindsight: problem with kids is that the TCO is pretty high - you gotta feed em to keep the power generation running :P
[07:22:35] <XXCoder> trentster: good question, think starting is free, only pay certain %
[07:22:58] <SpeedEvil> archivist: At least a large part of the problem with that was software - but...
[07:22:59] <XXCoder> archivist: it would have worked if they did more prototypes and ensured quality
[07:23:19] <archivist> they were not up to it though
[07:23:36] <archivist> skill were missing
[07:23:39] <archivist> skills
[07:24:00] <CaptHindsight> the hummingbird or similar kickstarter contacted me back when they raised their funds...
[07:24:11] <CaptHindsight> they were looking for someone to make it work
[07:24:19] <SpeedEvil> hah
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[07:24:40] <CaptHindsight> they never got it to work
[07:24:42] <SpeedEvil> At least the zano wasn't physically impossible in the spec.
[07:25:02] <SpeedEvil> http://www.gizmag.com/skarp-laser-razor/39587/
[07:25:06] <CaptHindsight> some other project sent me an email last week
[07:25:31] <CaptHindsight> wanted the NDA in place before they get into details
[07:25:32] <archivist> its the kids who have never been through a design for production process
[07:25:33] <SpeedEvil> 'Prototypes of the Skarp are constructed out of 6061 aluminum with the familiar look of shaving razors. But instead of an edge of steel, the Skarp uses a single fiber optic wielding a low-power, class 1 laser. Morgan Gustavsson, who is experienced in the field of medical and cosmetic lasers, states that his reasearch has led to the discovery of a chromophore in human hair that can be cut/broken when hit with a particular wavelength of light.
[07:25:39] <SpeedEvil> that's not how any of this works.
[07:26:30] <CaptHindsight> and due to gravity the earth stays in orbit around the sun therefor making the Skarp fly
[07:26:41] <archivist> I was hit with and NDA for a standard gear...wtf
[07:26:50] <trentster> what the heck is a Skarp?
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[07:27:07] <SpeedEvil> trentster: a LASER razor
[07:27:10] <CaptHindsight> all the recent ones have been perpetual types
[07:27:12] <trentster> url?
[07:27:15] <archivist> the edge of an escarpment
[07:27:34] <CaptHindsight> they think that you're going to sign a never ending NDA for their flying bullshit
[07:27:42] <SpeedEvil> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-skarp-laser-razor-21st-century-shaving#/updates
[07:30:08] <trentster> wow! those things have been in scifi movies for awhile, it becomes a reality it seems
[07:30:27] <XXCoder> stll think that things a bullshit but dunno
[07:30:38] <trentster> not sure how healthy it is to have laser close to your skin consistently every day
[07:30:48] <trentster> but only time will tell
[07:30:59] <XXCoder> if its even a laser. someone think it is actually electrified wire
[07:31:53] <archivist> anyway keep beards http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35350886
[07:32:27] <CaptHindsight> there are laser based leg shavers for women
[07:32:36] <CaptHindsight> let me get the link....
[07:32:49] <SpeedEvil> It's claimed to be a 1mW laser.
[07:32:55] <SpeedEvil> And to run from an AA battery
[07:33:07] <trentster> I have a secret dislike for microwaves, unnecessary xrays and especially full body scans at airports.
[07:33:24] <SpeedEvil> AAA
[07:33:24] <trentster> A laser razor does not sound like a great longterm idea to me :P
[07:33:59] <Jymmm> trentster: Just go for the cheap feel instead of the body scanner!
[07:34:02] <XXCoder> battery can supply more than 1 mW?
[07:34:07] <CaptHindsight> https://www.silkn.com/flash-and-go/
[07:34:19] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: the LASER is claimed to be 1mW
[07:34:37] <SpeedEvil> If it's not, it's never going to get easy approval
[07:34:55] <CaptHindsight> 1mW per 25um^2 is lots of power
[07:34:59] <trentster> Jymmm: yeah, nothing like having a strangers hand groping your junk ;-)
[07:35:23] <XXCoder> it says permenent hair removeal but then it says lifetime of pulses. like I need to use again?
[07:35:26] <Jymmm> trentster: Hey, just pretend it's your fantasy ;)
[07:35:32] <trentster> haha
[07:35:37] <XXCoder> lol
[07:35:52] <SpeedEvil> I have a related idea using higher power lasers and galvos.
[07:36:01] <XXCoder> how to make airplane security dirty? "Hey where is my dinner first??"
[07:36:09] <SpeedEvil> IPL uses high pulsed LASERs which heat the whole skin
[07:36:17] <Jymmm> Alkaline AAA = 1200mAh @ 25ma discharge
[07:36:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2921762/
[07:36:33] <SpeedEvil> If instead you target the individual hair follicles, it should work much better
[07:36:44] <XXCoder> thats what it says it does
[07:36:53] <XXCoder> it triggers on ahir contact
[07:38:02] <Jymmm> wholy shit batman!
[07:38:36] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: no, it doesn't
[07:38:58] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: the device is pressed to the skin, and irradiates a whole area of skin.
[07:39:04] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: speaking of shaving one not that one capt linked to.
[07:39:07] <SpeedEvil> ah
[07:39:13] <Jymmm> AA alkaline/lithium capacity = 1000mah/3000mah @ 1000ma discharge rate
[07:40:54] <Jymmm> Damn... lithium/alkaline capacity at 0C = 3500mW / 200mW
[07:42:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/13/laser_razor_snuffed_out_by_kickstarter/
[07:42:35] <CaptHindsight> the Skarp crew doesn't have a working prototype.
[07:43:07] <CaptHindsight> https://d2pq0u4uni88oo.cloudfront.net/assets/004/643/823/b152b93f5a57846bf22b8c3f54b1418e_h264_high.mp4
[07:43:46] <CaptHindsight> look how poorly it cuts
[07:44:27] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: yeah I felt it was bullshit when I saw that extreme green video.
[07:45:03] <XXCoder> its probably to hide redness from electric burn
[07:45:06] <trentster> yeah in the kickstarter video it clearly looked like a heated wire was cutting the hair
[07:45:45] <CaptHindsight> they almost had people fooled
[07:46:20] <CaptHindsight> they could have used CGI and pulled off a better video
[07:46:21] <trentster> the hair looks singed - I do a better job when I lose the hair on my arm lighting the barbecue
[07:46:58] <trentster> maybe I should start a kickstarter for laser hair barbecue removal :P
[07:47:09] <XXCoder> its in indiegogo now
[07:47:13] <CaptHindsight> cook while you cut
[07:48:17] <CaptHindsight> the DIY kit comes with a bottle of starting fluid and a box of matches
[07:48:31] <CaptHindsight> guaranteed hair removal
[07:49:03] <CaptHindsight> also kills any bacteria on the surface of the skin
[07:49:04] <SpeedEvil> Also - they have a _tiny_ budget.
[07:49:19] <SpeedEvil> They are absolutely not developing their own LASER diode.
[07:49:28] <SpeedEvil> So it's one of a very small range of possible wavelengths.
[07:49:51] <SpeedEvil> Raising into massive question their magically discovered frequency that makes hair fall apart
[07:50:03] <archivist> I should do a kickstarter campaign to get me a new car
[07:50:07] <XXCoder> kickstart this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WqTq29unrY
[07:50:11] <CaptHindsight> depending on color
[07:50:40] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q
[07:50:52] <SpeedEvil> Compost-Fueled Cars: Wouldn't That Be Great? - Onion Talks - Ep. 1
[07:51:24] <SpeedEvil> Way too much like Ted.
[07:51:31] <XXCoder> indeed
[07:52:29] <archivist> the excess sulphur in turd gas is going to do wonders for your engine
[07:52:46] <XXCoder> theres few cars that runs on wood has
[07:52:48] <XXCoder> *gas
[07:53:06] <XXCoder> its ugly and awkward thats why it havent taken off.
[07:54:44] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTTBi6-zuAY
[07:54:50] <SpeedEvil> Wood-gas powered chainsaw
[07:56:12] <trentster> CaptHindsight: haha we should put it up on kickstarter just as a parody joke and see what happens - see if its possible that anyone in the world is dumb enough to pledge on it ;-)
[07:56:28] <XXCoder> that looks very safe heh
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[07:58:00] <XXCoder> geez all that video and guy does not even sjow it running
[07:58:42] <SpeedEvil> he does eventually
[07:58:55] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8JyazgRBtq8
[07:59:26] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kKRjcE9Vnk - oh - that's him starting it
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[08:02:25] <Deejay> moin
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[08:05:43] <XXCoder> yo
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[08:11:30] <Jymmm> momma
[08:13:14] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I got an LED lightbar for the car
[08:14:25] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I also have some LED controllers that dim, animation, etc
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[08:15:38] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I also have one of these iambic keyers http://www.vibroplex.com/contents/media/by2.jpg
[08:16:11] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Which basically one paddle is 'dit', and the other is 'dah' for sending morse code.
[08:17:09] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I figure that I can wire al that together and send morse code at 40 WPM @ 13000 lumen =)
[08:17:40] <Jymmm> XXCoder: old school naval ship style =)
[08:24:18] <XXCoder> lol
[08:24:42] <XXCoder> morse car
[08:25:03] <XXCoder> ...---...---...---
[08:26:14] <Jymmm> ... --- -- . -. ---- .. -. .-.. .. -.- . - ---- .- - .-.-.-
[08:27:39] <XXCoder> something like that heh (site said SOMEN#INLIKET#AT.) # is untranslatble
[08:27:54] <Jymmm> lol
[08:28:37] <trentster> anyone used GARR Tool carbide bits - if so any good?
[08:30:09] <archivist> never heard of them, Garison ?
[08:30:53] <archivist> garryson http://www.mscdirect.co.uk/Garryson/4294966304.html
[08:32:02] <XXCoder> seems cheap?
[08:32:36] <trentster> http://www.garrtool.com/
[08:32:44] <trentster> I think they are US made
[08:34:32] <trentster> next question ( braces himself for the backlash ) anyone bought a cheapie ebay dial test indicator? if so how bad are they? and if the measurements are out, are they consistently out?
[08:34:57] <archivist> never been silly enough :)
[08:35:26] <archivist> you only need them to indicate +- so should work
[08:35:54] <XXCoder> dont think much precision matters for ref use?
[08:35:56] <trentster> My Dial indicator I have is Mitutoyo, not sure I want to drop a lot of coin on a dial test indicator
[08:36:27] <archivist> and the reason you should collect toys on ebay is how I got my mitutoyo 2" digital indicator
[08:36:51] <trentster> archivist: how much did you pay?
[08:37:20] <archivist> the guy said its dead, £5, I bought it and replaced the voltage regulator
[08:37:37] <trentster> nice one!
[08:38:07] <trentster> I battle to find great bargains on ebay lately
[08:38:24] <archivist> some of my best objects were extras on an ebay collection
[08:39:13] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/IMG_1673_800.JPG
[08:39:39] <trentster> define extras?
[08:40:18] <archivist> that indicator, he was trying to sell all sorts when I got there
[08:40:32] <trentster> aah
[08:40:44] <archivist> went to collect a surveying object
[08:41:05] <archivist> got that and the indicator and a box of good files
[08:44:41] <trentster> man! Mitutoyo must be freaking out about all the fake stuff on ebay
[08:45:28] <XXCoder> archivist: yeah good deals if know how to restore or repair
[08:45:53] <archivist> fixing stuff used to be my day job
[08:46:49] <Jymmm> But archivist's night job is breaking the stuff he'll be fixing the next day ;)
[08:47:05] <Jymmm> (job security)
[08:47:12] <XXCoder> thought it was YOUR job
[08:47:38] <Jymmm> XXCoder: No, mine is to call ppl on their bs.
[08:47:42] <archivist> I dont currently have a proper job
[08:47:52] <XXCoder> ah good thing my name arent ppl ;)
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[09:33:44] <Gaston|Home> Hi all! I'll be idling in here until I get going with my conversion of a Emco VMC-100 to linuxcnc
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[11:22:55] <__rob> anyone know where I can get some 3mm diameter hardended steel shaft ?
[11:24:04] <enleth> you mean precision ground and all?
[11:25:21] <__rob> ideally yes
[11:25:52] <__rob> hardness is the main thing, so there is no bend in the shaft
[11:26:46] <__rob> I was going to get some drill rod and turn it, then harden myself
[11:26:57] <__rob> but rather just get something ready to go
[11:27:07] <SpeedEvil> __rob: there will always be bend
[11:27:28] <SpeedEvil> all steel is pretty much as bendy - before the elastic limit is hit
[11:27:56] <__rob> yea, just want to minimize it
[11:28:13] <enleth> I'd take a look at McMaster-Carr, they're not cheap but they have everything and ship everywhere
[11:28:14] <__rob> compared to a bit of mild still it will have considerably less bend right ?
[11:29:12] <enleth> if you need cheaper, look for local sources
[11:29:52] <SpeedEvil> __rob: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00653164
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[11:30:54] <__rob> yea, found plenty of hardened shafts
[11:30:57] <__rob> not 3mm though
[11:31:23] <XXCoder> http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/4/8/4/495484_v1.gif fancy.
[11:32:04] <__rob> what is each control
[11:32:11] <__rob> 1 steering, the other speed ?
[11:32:11] <XXCoder> both steering
[11:32:29] <SpeedEvil> hmm - that says 'small' - but it's ahrd to read
[11:32:29] <__rob> they dont look linked
[11:32:59] <XXCoder> its so person can do 90 degree turns without "releasing"
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[11:33:40] <enleth> doesn't look very precise
[11:33:56] <XXCoder> dunno as I never tried to drive one heh
[11:34:16] <enleth> a big diameter steering wheel has the advantage of being precisely controllable
[11:34:35] <XXCoder> its not bad if self driving takes off
[11:34:36] <XXCoder> as backup
[11:34:44] <XXCoder> takes much less space3\
[11:34:54] <XXCoder> but same time if power steering dies...
[11:35:21] <XXCoder> I still remember my mecury sable 1988. when its power steering died it was nigh-impossible to steer
[11:35:29] <XXCoder> and thats with regular wheel.
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[11:39:48] <SpeedEvil> __rob: a bit of research shows that hardening can affect stiffness, but only by 2-3% or so.
[11:39:48] <enleth> XXCoder: you mean in standstill or all the time?
[11:40:05] <SpeedEvil> __rob: hardened steel is about as stiff as mild
[11:40:15] <XXCoder> all time... it broke while my car was going at 60 mph
[11:40:27] <XXCoder> so yeah it was... hard to manage to get to exit
[11:40:36] <XXCoder> thankfully before freeway curved
[11:40:47] <enleth> interesting, it shouldn't behave like that
[11:40:55] <XXCoder> it was because belt blew off
[11:40:57] <archivist> __rob, for stiffness fix the design
[11:41:19] <XXCoder> alterator and other systems died too but thankfully battery was full so it could run for a bit.
[11:41:43] <enleth> it may have been the case that it locked up or something and you weren't just without power steering - you were fighting against normal steering resistance *and* the broken power steering system
[11:41:46] <XXCoder> coil apparently didnt depend on it
[11:41:57] <XXCoder> nah just belt was broken
[11:42:06] <XXCoder> I put in new belt and it was fine
[11:42:21] <XXCoder> I drove for few more years till idiot driver crashed into my car and killed it
[11:42:42] <enleth> I've driven without power steering and it's not really supposed to be a problem at higher speeds
[11:42:43] <XXCoder> mecury sable is.. heavy car
[11:42:58] <XXCoder> v6 big block
[11:42:58] <enleth> at standstill, while parking and so on, sure
[11:43:01] <__rob> SpeedEvil, what about some of this then
[11:43:02] <__rob> https://www.cromwell.co.uk/CTL4325306G
[11:43:09] <XXCoder> 3600cc I think
[11:43:42] <enleth> weird anyway
[11:43:55] <enleth> there still are *trucks* with no power steering
[11:44:22] <SpeedEvil> __rob: basically 'any' steel is around 180-200GPa youngs modulus.
[11:44:57] <archivist> __rob, elasticity is nearly a constant for all the steels, all that does is push the yield point up a curve so it springs back
[11:44:57] <SpeedEvil> Steel is one of the stiffest materials commonly available.
[11:45:07] <SpeedEvil> Berylium adds another half.
[11:45:23] <XXCoder> enleth: those usually come with much biggher wheel
[11:45:26] <SpeedEvil> As does molybdenum, and tungsten doubles it
[11:45:27] <archivist> carbide rod is pretty good
[11:45:32] <XXCoder> so easier to turn with more toque
[11:46:06] <SpeedEvil> archivist: quite
[11:46:29] <SpeedEvil> __rob: A 3mm shaft will flex moderately easily - can you support it on both, not one side, for example?
[11:46:30] <XXCoder> ah yes enleth 3.8L heh big for car.
[11:46:37] <enleth> XXCoder: they do, but it still should be possible to drive a car safely when power steering breaks
[11:46:48] <XXCoder> definitely not mecury sable though lol
[11:47:05] <XXCoder> wheel was so stiff it took my entire weight to turn very slowly
[11:47:29] <XXCoder> thankfully other cars moved out of way (used emergacy lights and horn)
[11:47:29] <enleth> absolutely not normal.
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[11:48:03] <enleth> unless that's how they design those big ass cars in the US
[11:48:04] <SpeedEvil> __rob: reducing the distance from bearing to load also helps lots
[11:48:15] <enleth> but that doesn't make sense, just think of all the lawsuits
[11:48:24] <XXCoder> enleth: 3.8L is big truck engine size
[11:48:31] <XXCoder> in midsize car.
[11:48:44] <enleth> there must have been something wrong with it other than the belt breaking
[11:49:00] <SpeedEvil> Still - at speed - steering shouldn't have been that problematic
[11:49:11] <XXCoder> dunno as I replaced belt (and water pump which dont change anythjing since belt was off it) it was fine after
[11:49:27] <enleth> maybe you didn't notice before because the power steering was powerful enough to overcome excess resistance in the steering system
[11:49:28] <SpeedEvil> If you were slow, and doing large steering inputs - then yes
[11:49:35] <XXCoder> heh had to lift engine to replace waterpump
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[11:50:04] <XXCoder> dunno as it worked fine for 8 years afterwards
[11:50:07] <__rob> SpeedEvil, I can support it likely with 4 bearings over 60mm
[11:50:09] <enleth> XXCoder: I'd serously assume that your steering was otherwise broken but it was masked by power steering being strong enough
[11:50:22] <enleth> so you did not notice it after belt replacement as well
[11:50:22] <XXCoder> I thought 5 but I rememebered I replace my old blue car only less than year before
[11:50:23] <__rob> just colleting all the bits I want to use before I do the design
[11:50:33] <XXCoder> enleth: possible
[11:50:39] <archivist> __rob, what is the device you are making
[11:50:52] <__rob> reason its 3mm is that there is a sdp-si.com 1mm FHT timing pulley I want to use
[11:51:00] <XXCoder> enleth: that car had some.. strange issues but it lasted 9 years
[11:51:14] <__rob> archivist, a pan tilt camera
[11:51:18] <XXCoder> it was owned by old people and I;m second owner. very low mileage
[11:51:20] <enleth> XXCoder: I just can't believe a car designed in such a lawsuit happy country would become unsteerable to the point of being dangerous after a belt breaks
[11:51:25] <__rob> with my own camera
[11:51:35] <enleth> I mean, by design
[11:51:54] <XXCoder> heh enleth I still remember broke going out 2 months before that belt broke
[11:51:58] <XXCoder> *brakes
[11:52:13] <XXCoder> thankfully it was "half jammed broke" not "free rotating"
[11:52:21] <__rob> I want to do computer vision stuff on the actual camera
[11:52:23] <enleth> handbrake too?
[11:52:35] <__rob> so I need the mechanical bits to be super accurate
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[11:52:45] <XXCoder> yeah front wheels was at -50% lifem rear drums at -100% life left
[11:52:51] <XXCoder> brakes
[11:52:53] <SpeedEvil> __rob: finding a simple calculator for beam movements is a good plan
[11:52:57] <enleth> I'd say "put it in gear and stop the engine" but that was probably an automatic
[11:53:15] <XXCoder> auto yeah but it was basically braking constantly I had to use gas to move
[11:53:27] <XXCoder> I said brakes was all fucked anyway so I drove all way to shop
[11:53:32] <XXCoder> saved tow money
[11:53:49] <__rob> SpeedEvil, I'll have a look
[11:53:54] <enleth> honestly I'd have no idea how to reliably stop an automatic transmission car that lost brakes completely
[11:53:56] <SpeedEvil> __rob: 'easybeam' I've used on android
[11:54:04] <archivist> __rob, gears may be better than timing pulleys, especially ant backlash gears
[11:54:04] <SpeedEvil> enleth: the american way
[11:54:08] <SpeedEvil> enleth: 1911
[11:54:11] <XXCoder> enleth: netural
[11:54:26] <XXCoder> of course, assuming roads clear.
[11:54:35] <XXCoder> if not theres still downshift
[11:54:42] <archivist> switch the ignition off
[11:54:42] <enleth> XXCoder: you mean neutral and coast until stopped?
[11:54:45] <XXCoder> "up hill" it will slow down
[11:54:54] <__rob> archivist, I wanted to keep it quiet, was the reason for the timing pulleys
[11:55:09] <__rob> whats the advantage of gears
[11:55:10] <XXCoder> archivist: not when steering power depends on that. I menioned how tough it was to steer later on heh
[11:55:15] <__rob> I mean, the backlash is not a problem
[11:55:20] <__rob> the encoders on the shaft
[11:55:46] <XXCoder> enleth: as last ditch go off into grass or side wall of freeway
[11:55:57] <XXCoder> I rather ruin car than kill someone.
[11:56:16] <archivist> __rob, which shaft, motor or camera
[11:56:27] <__rob> camera
[11:56:44] <XXCoder> enleth: previous owners seriously never did ANY maintance
[11:56:46] <__rob> the loop is basically closed using hte camera
[11:56:50] <__rob> rather then with the encoder
[11:56:56] <enleth> It's really simpler with a manual - just shift it into the lowest gear possible that won't damage the engine at the moment and cut off ignition
[11:56:57] <__rob> directly
[11:57:02] <XXCoder> brakes was at MINUS 50% life, and drums at MINUS 100%.
[11:57:09] <enleth> as a bonus, you won't loose any power systems until stopped
[11:57:14] <enleth> *lose
[11:57:19] <__rob> if that makes sense..
[11:57:29] <archivist> it does
[11:57:45] <XXCoder> enleth: theres way to "downshift" on autos too
[11:57:50] <XXCoder> #2. then #1
[11:58:00] <__rob> btw, got that tormach on the mezanine..
[11:58:11] <archivist> backlash does matter to the loop control
[11:58:20] <__rob> I referenced your church pictures to show "it'll be alright", "check out what this guy did"
[11:58:22] <__rob> haha
[11:58:35] <archivist> I admit nothing
[11:58:45] <SpeedEvil> __rob: what are you trying to do with the camera?
[11:58:55] <enleth> XXCoder: the question is - is there a way to keep the clutch engaged in emergency
[11:59:10] <__rob> archivist, how so?
[11:59:21] <__rob> for my control loop I am just reducing error in target vs actual
[11:59:34] <XXCoder> dunno but in ;least there is way to slow down down to a point
[11:59:36] <archivist> wernt me that owned the church I just worked there :)
[11:59:43] <__rob> so it will just keep taking up the backlash and the error till its 0
[11:59:50] <SpeedEvil> __rob: err - no
[12:00:14] <archivist> loops rattle about a bit in the presence of backlash
[12:00:24] <SpeedEvil> __rob: backlash is the amount of difference between the engagement position of a gear or belt going backwards and forwards.
[12:00:56] <archivist> you can get hunting and other annoyances
[12:01:40] <__rob> yea, this is a 'strange' setup tho
[12:02:05] <archivist> add a spring to take up the backlash
[12:02:11] <__rob> so I will stop vs hunting around to get a perfect position
[12:02:24] <__rob> and accept the error
[12:03:26] <SpeedEvil> Oh - if it's pointing a camera, you might not care.
[12:03:38] <SpeedEvil> As as long as it's well within the FOV, ...
[12:03:42] <SpeedEvil> is this on a moving thing?
[12:03:46] <__rob> well its pointing it
[12:03:56] <__rob> but I mean, as long as the thing is 99% in the view
[12:03:58] <__rob> then I don't care
[12:04:16] <archivist> I care not for wobbly vision
[12:05:44] <__rob> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Catalog/Group/346#
[12:05:50] <__rob> these are the pulleys
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[12:06:22] <__rob> they do ab gears
[12:06:30] <__rob> but its like $160 a peice
[12:06:57] <MrSunshine> hmm aluminium extrusions .. how the heck do they manage to get the holes in them ? =) https://youtu.be/5GFC9A3nT-Q?t=55 i dont get it ... the pieces has to be held somehow so they leave a hole .. but that would cut up the profile in several small bits? :P
[12:07:28] <MrSunshine> https://youtu.be/5GFC9A3nT-Q?t=53 might be a bit better :P
[12:07:36] <XXCoder> heh I guess since still molen they fuses again afyer
[12:07:45] <XXCoder> and also one profile looks like dick
[12:08:32] <MrSunshine> the billets as far as i know are only heated then by hydraulics pressed throught a die
[12:09:21] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqkxyACWorI
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[12:10:41] <XXCoder> yeah probably could refuse shor time its being pushed though
[12:12:21] <__rob> archivist. The setup is at the moment that it will always accept error in the control loop, and only react when the error > x. when it decellerates into position. If it over or under shoots by < x it will stop rather then trying to correct the error
[12:12:54] <__rob> so your always "at about y" where y is the target
[12:13:02] <__rob> but the feedback from the encoder is precise
[12:13:19] <__rob> so I know where I ended up, even if it isn't exactly what I wanted
[12:13:33] <__rob> but that seems to stop any hunting issues that would otherwise be present
[12:13:53] <__rob> and is cheap
[12:14:13] <__rob> if you see any gaping problems with that logic I'd love to hear them
[12:14:16] <XXCoder> MrSunshine: interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT_mqlZwmXs
[12:15:31] <_methods> MrSunshine: i'm pretty sure they use progressive dies that form into final hollow shapes
[12:15:51] <__rob> also I am not targeting a single point, but rather the centre of a cluster of points
[12:15:52] <_methods> you can't make hollow profiles with a single die as far as i know
[12:16:06] <__rob> so as long as the cluster is always in view its fine
[12:16:11] <XXCoder> _methods: actually its possible. I just linked to it
[12:16:27] <XXCoder> though dunno about ones that has more than one shaped interior voids
[12:17:42] <archivist> MrSunshine, the pressure welds the metal back together after the hole making part
[12:18:07] <MrSunshine> ok =)
[12:19:22] <XXCoder> yeah thats what I guessed though I used wrong word
[12:19:43] <XXCoder> molen is wrong though. so just push together and it fuses eh
[12:20:14] <archivist> well some processes a very close to molten
[12:20:40] <XXCoder> cool
[12:20:51] <archivist> no hot
[12:20:52] <XXCoder> I wonder oif 8020 and others is made that way too
[12:20:58] <archivist> :)
[12:21:01] <XXCoder> I'm sure it was but not sure on precision
[12:21:11] <XXCoder> wow it';s so cool its hot ;)
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[13:24:29] <Frank__> hello peoeplee
[13:30:31] <nos> hai
[13:30:53] <nos> Anybody using active hearing protection while e.g. angle grinding?
[13:31:21] <nos> Just ordered a pair of Impact Sport.
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[13:43:21] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: they stretch them after to make them straight and to spec
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[13:49:27] <thesaint> nos, not active but my headstock is so noisy i have to use normal ones... lol
[13:52:16] <nos> lol
[13:53:18] <nos> There are these angle grinder heroes from the welding dept sharing space with us machine people in my new school.
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[13:53:45] <skunkworks> yeck.. grinding dust
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[13:54:44] <_methods> yeck.......welders
[13:55:01] <_methods> nothing destroys a bathroom faster than a pack of dirty welders
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[14:08:10] <thesaint> _methods, how so?
[14:08:25] <_methods> they're dirty animals?
[14:08:35] <thesaint> _methods, lol..
[14:08:37] <archivist> the flux is very hard
[14:08:56] <_methods> they usually have pockets full of grinding dust they spread all over like retarded fairies
[14:09:04] <_methods> that turns into rust all over the bathroom
[14:09:24] <_methods> they also like to piss all over toilet seats like 5 y/o's
[14:09:50] <malcom2073> What's amusing, is I hear the same thing from engineers about machinists
[14:10:02] <_methods> yeah they get chips all over
[14:10:06] <_methods> and coolant
[14:10:13] <malcom2073> And the same thing from management about engineers
[14:10:14] <_methods> but at least they don't shit all over the toilet seats
[14:10:18] <thesaint> _methods, i hope they are cheap...
[14:10:52] <archivist> and the welders complain about the management
[14:11:21] <_methods> i just like to make fun of welders
[14:11:34] <thesaint> very simple, hire good people and pay them or do a lot of hiring and firing - take your pick...
[14:11:42] <_methods> i probably shouldn't make fun of the handicapped like that
[14:11:47] <_methods> but i'm cruel that way
[14:11:53] <thesaint> or just give up and do it all yourself...
[14:12:54] <_methods> well if you want something done right................
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[14:15:20] <thesaint> i am in the latter camp, i gave up. sadly its no easier :-)
[14:15:42] <thesaint> i only blame myself now... lol
[14:16:05] * archivist welds _methods toecaps to the floor
[14:16:25] <malcom2073> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pine64/pine-a64-first-15-64-bit-single-board-super-comput
[14:16:39] <malcom2073> Yet Another
[14:17:02] <archivist> but but its the first, it says so
[14:17:23] <malcom2073> Yes, when you add 15 qualifiers after "first", it can easily be the first :P
[14:17:36] <Hawku> super computer???
[14:18:37] <archivist> kickstarter is full of me too copies
[14:19:07] <malcom2073> Once it goes on sale I might actually buy one
[14:19:14] <malcom2073> be nice to have my garage media PC not be laggy like the pi is
[14:19:46] <JT-Shop> I must be missing a step to getting Preemt-RT running http://paste.ubuntu.com/14590351/
[14:19:54] <_methods> hehe sorry archivist forgot you were one of THEM before
[14:20:17] <_methods> a reformed weldurr
[14:27:34] <trentster> malcom2073: Just get an Odroid Xu4
[14:28:41] <trentster> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G143452239825
[14:29:58] <rhavenj_> hi there, is there an advantage to using an older version of linuxcnc with an older machine? in this case an ibm t40
[14:30:03] <malcom2073> trentster: I think you're missing the point of a $15 replacement for my $30 pi :P
[14:31:02] <archivist> with twice the memory
[14:31:42] <MrSunshine> hmm so been out troubleshooting the machine, the rails are within about 0.02mm parallel with the supporting beams (that the ballscrew is sitting on), checked the length with a straight edge and its about as straight as can be.. noticed my binding problem worsened if i tightened the bolts to the plate holding the ballscrew so i guess that one is twisted, but .. also noticed small areas of binding if i screwed the
[14:31:42] <MrSunshine> ballnut free and moved it by hand by pushing and pulling on it to make the screw rotate :/
[14:31:52] <MrSunshine> sounds like the balls are hitting eachother inside the nut
[14:32:19] <archivist> lack of grease
[14:32:30] <trentster> malcom2073: you said its sluggish and this still fits in the relm of cheap
[14:32:57] <trentster> and this should blow that kickstarter which does not exist device out the water
[14:33:49] <malcom2073> $75 is out of the realm of cheap for me
[14:33:57] <trentster> ok, understood
[14:34:18] <malcom2073> I mean, totally something I could budget for, but not something I coudl buy on a whim like the $15 one (once/if it exists of course)
[14:34:33] <trentster> I actually have one of these odroids sitting on myd esk unused, bought it a couple of months back
[14:35:00] <trentster> intended to be a web video streaming server on the cnc machine, been too lazy to set it up :P
[14:35:14] <malcom2073> I've heard they're pretty nice
[14:35:27] <trentster> yeah they are darn fast!
[14:35:39] <trentster> at least compared to rasb's
[14:36:12] <trentster> but I have not used many of these devices previously - I actually need to look for a slim no frills os to put on it
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[14:37:21] <MrFluffy> hello all, Ive had a peek around the forum and cant find anything but thought I'd ask the collective here..
[14:37:32] <MrFluffy> Has anyone done a hybrid cnc mill + 3d printer setup?
[14:37:44] <malcom2073> Not typically something that would work well together
[14:37:52] <malcom2073> cnc mill needs to be largy and sturdy, 3d printer needs to be light and fast
[14:38:04] <malcom2073> large*
[14:38:08] <MrFluffy> I'm thinking about doing one on my bridgeport with a tool in the toolholder with a e3d diamond extruder in it
[14:38:14] <archivist> the grunt of a mill v light weight printer
[14:38:31] <MrFluffy> yes, I have a printrbot 3d printer and its small and light, but I want the envelope of the bridgeport for those rare occasions it wont fit on the 'bot
[14:38:52] <MrFluffy> I was thinking 3 bowden tube driven hotends on a toolholder then put the steppers near the ram somewhere
[14:39:00] <malcom2073> Reprap firmware doesn't deal well with low acceleration systems
[14:39:14] <malcom2073> You could use linuxcnc, but coordinated axises don't work well with extruders heh
[14:39:15] <MrFluffy> I have 3 spare outputs for steppers because I fitted two parallel port breakout cards
[14:39:36] <MrFluffy> its already running linuxcnc for the mill/engraving sides
[14:40:22] <MrFluffy> I want to keep my axis etc controlled by it, not get into a ramps board etc which is the normal 3d printer with linux cnc route
[14:40:24] <malcom2073> I wouldn't try it with ABS, but you could probably get by printing PLA that slowly
[14:40:52] <MrFluffy> so I can pick up the extruder with a qc30 tail and just treat it as a tool in the tool carousel (which is manual on my setup)
[14:40:54] <Wolf_> who the hell wants to tie up the mill for 2-3- 14 hours to print stuff you can do on a <$600 kit...
[14:41:08] <MrFluffy> my mill doesnt run 24/7
[14:41:20] <MrFluffy> most the time its sat idle, and as a get out of jail card, I'd like to thanks
[14:41:23] <Wolf_> plus ABS really likes being warm when printing
[14:41:40] <MrFluffy> yes I know, Im just fitting a heated bed to my 3d printer to cope with it
[14:41:56] <Wolf_> I need to fully inclose mine
[14:42:01] <MrFluffy> I know the tech, I already have a smaller 3d printer, but I want the mill as a get out of jail for those rare occasions it wont fit on it
[14:42:11] <Wolf_> but i’m also running a 250x250mm print bed
[14:42:15] <MrSunshine> archivist: i guess i could try and put some more in it but ive been greasing them alot if feels like =)
[14:42:38] <MrFluffy> this is just a printrbot metal with the factory heatedbed/extension and a z axis stretch so still quite small
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[14:43:12] <MrFluffy> and theres my lunatic side wondering if I could combine a bit of 3d printing with mill in the same part...
[14:43:15] <Wolf_> yeah, most of that crap can fit the whole prnters on my headbed
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[14:43:20] <malcom2073> MrFluffy: besides the above limitations, it should work, though you should probably pay heed to your slicing paths to increase straight and reduce turns, will make the difference between a 10 hour print and a 100 hour print on something like a mill hhe
[14:43:48] <Wolf_> think of the wear on the ways too
[14:43:52] <archivist> its big, just mill from solid
[14:44:24] <malcom2073> Or just build a big format printer :-D
[14:44:33] <Wolf_> mill passes are way deeper then 3d printer layers
[14:44:51] <MrFluffy> I'm out of shedspace for the time being, I'm trying to maximise what I have until I finish my barn
[14:45:06] <Wolf_> finish the barn then
[14:45:30] <malcom2073> I also recommend using machinekit, their velocity extrusion stuff works much better than using the extruder as a normal axis with linuxcnc
[14:45:39] <Wolf_> ALL of my hobby/work projects got shoved on hold 3 months ago to finish my house/workspace
[14:45:56] <malcom2073> Wolf_: Is that where you've been?
[14:45:58] <MrFluffy> it has dirt floor, no foundation and is open on 2 sides currently... and its 0 c outside at the moment...
[14:46:01] <Wolf_> yup
[14:46:12] <malcom2073> MrFluffy: you're going to be *very* hard pressed to 3d print in that environment without a full enclosure
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[14:46:17] <Wolf_> sounds like my house MrFluffy
[14:46:34] <MrFluffy> I have to finish the house before starting the barn too yes, family politics
[14:46:53] <MrFluffy> but I can whittle away at a little printhead project in the evenings ;)
[14:47:08] <Wolf_> living room http://i.imgur.com/YINsyTz.jpg before< and last night > http://i.imgur.com/hVMK1gl.jpg
[14:47:22] <MrFluffy> I print on the printrbot with no enclosure, but it is faster to do a layer than the mill would be
[14:48:16] <MrFluffy> im trying to avoid touching the printrbot because I know it'll turn into a massive re-engineering job and will end up another project instead of being useable...
[14:48:23] <malcom2073> Yes!
[14:48:26] <malcom2073> Do not touch it haha
[14:48:40] <malcom2073> I took my printer down to "make it better". 6 months later I had a totally rebuilt printer, and the old one was a a pile of parts in the corner
[14:49:10] <MrFluffy> I think if I'm going to build one from scratch in larger format, I'll be busy turning it into a plasma table instead
[14:49:11] <Wolf_> I;ve been thinking about just adding a 2nd printer to the mix, but I don’t print that often right now
[14:49:34] <malcom2073> Wolf_: wanna buy a mendel max 1.5 for way more than you can buy a cheapie nowadays? :P
[14:49:43] <Wolf_> haha no
[14:49:51] <Wolf_> I was thinking i3v 12”
[14:49:56] <malcom2073> I dropped $700 on that *pos* before I knew what I was doing
[14:52:06] <Wolf_> 12x12x13.5” i3v is $696 lol
[14:52:29] <MrFluffy> I wont even mention an idea to turn the bridgeport into a laser engraver too with another tool in the carousel :D
[14:53:17] <MrFluffy> that *would* need a enclosure, because going blind playing with another machine while it works isnt an option
[14:53:25] <Wolf_> the plasma table I want to build would make a good plasma table… probably suck as anything else
[14:54:28] <MrFluffy> I wanted to find a old oxy/acet magic eye follower setup and repurpose that, but I think everyone and their dog has had the same idea and they're now fetching good money
[14:55:32] <malcom2073> Ohh Wolf_: Remember my 5x10 router/plasma table idea?
[14:55:46] <Wolf_> i think
[14:55:46] <malcom2073> I've managed to cut the material cost in half by redesigning it, it may actually happen
[14:55:53] <Wolf_> cool
[14:56:18] <Wolf_> I still need to lay mine out, 5’x12’ material area
[14:56:39] <malcom2073> Nice
[14:57:06] <ssi> I need to build another laser table
[14:57:06] <Wolf_> need to get the office done so I have a desk to work at lol
[14:57:10] <ssi> so I'm interested in seeing designs
[14:57:19] <MrFluffy> I have to do a quilting machine too that I am being pestered by my wife for
[14:57:30] <ssi> I'd love to do a laser with a 50x100" work area
[14:57:53] <MrFluffy> she has a 15ft quilting frame and a machine with a large throat depth and its quite well made, so seems a good candidate for crossxy
[14:58:51] <MrFluffy> I'd need a 72hr day to get all this done this lifetime probably though...
[15:01:30] <_methods> company here in town has a big ass twin head tanaka that's like 20'x60' or something
[15:02:14] <_methods> oh sorry 240' x 14'
[15:02:15] <_methods> lol
[15:02:35] <Wolf_> wow only 14’ wide?
[15:02:38] <Wolf_> lol
[15:02:44] <_methods> yeah figured it would be 20'
[15:02:57] <_methods> http://www.pegasussteel.com/images/PegasusBrochure2008.pdf
[15:03:07] <Wolf_> 240’…
[15:04:05] <ssi> that's a bit bigger than i need :)
[15:04:09] <_methods> yeah lol
[15:04:22] <_methods> they got some beast brakes too
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[15:15:36] <trentster> hey guys, is there any reason to avoid mounting Linear profile rails upside down? I see a comment here that it reduces load capacity by 50% ?
[15:15:44] <trentster> https://grabcad.com/library/another-cnc-router-1
[15:16:23] <archivist> trentster, read your rail suppliers data
[15:17:22] <trentster> *plucks another grey hair - thanks archivist
[15:17:56] <trentster> I am looking for a generic yes it makes no diff or no you should avoid it - ps "I dont have a rail supplier
[15:18:14] <malcom2073> trentster: Depends on the rail, but typically it will reduce the load capacity
[15:18:17] <archivist> my other answer...it depends
[15:18:36] <malcom2073> Think about how the rail works: Pulling down on it means it's not riding on the top rollers, only on the bottom
[15:18:48] <malcom2073> The bottom rollers are typically not rated for as much of a load (lifting load vs pressing load)
[15:18:57] <trentster> archivist: I need you long and lat co-ords please for the drone pilot :P
[15:19:15] <ssi> for the profile rail I'm used to, the ball contact is the same top and bottom
[15:19:33] <archivist> there is no one right answer
[15:19:33] <ssi> only difference would be the force that's trying to spread the open side of the truck if you have a load that's away from the rail
[15:19:44] <trentster> malcom2073: thanks for the succinct answer - much appreciated :-)
[15:19:57] <archivist> for some its the bending between supports
[15:21:02] <archivist> there being no bending if the force is the correct direction
[15:21:31] <malcom2073> trentster: Seriously though, your rail datasheet will specify load capacity in all the directions and angles :P
[15:21:36] <ssi> but yes the answer is "consult the technical data for the rail"
[15:21:48] <ssi> if you don't have a rail supplier, then choose a rail that's suitable for your application
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[15:22:01] <trentster> I will once I have figured out which rail to use
[15:22:01] <ssi> if you want to run them upside down, choose a rail with a load rating that exceeds your needs in that direction
[15:22:17] <malcom2073> My THK's have a 60T rating straight down, I think it's 3/4 of that lifting up
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[15:22:24] <trentster> the main benefit of running it upside down is of course avoiding debree from the cuter
[15:22:38] <ssi> I think I dated her
[15:22:41] <ssi> I avoided her too
[15:23:13] <trentster> lol
[15:29:30] <trentster> Is there some cryptic definition I need to look for in the datasheet that alludes to being mounted upside down? http://motioncontrolsystems.hiwin.com/Asset/HG-Series-Catalog.pdf
[15:32:38] <malcom2073> You should call them and ask, but if they don't mention a variation in load rating for different directions, it may be lowest common denominator
[15:34:07] <ssi> if you're concerned about the load rating of mounting them upside down
[15:34:09] <malcom2073> I just go way overkill :-D
[15:34:15] <ssi> then you also need to carefully consider how you're mounting the rail
[15:34:18] <MrSunshine> hmmm, pressed even more grease into the nut and its like it almost got worse ...
[15:34:34] <MrSunshine> is to many/to little amount of balls a problem in ballnuts ?
[15:34:35] <ssi> because the tensile strength of the bolts and threads (if tapping the base) is going to approach if not exceed the load rating of the rail
[15:34:40] <CaptHindsight> trentster: what is your max load?
[15:34:47] <trentster> malcom2073: yeah - overkill = tons more money
[15:35:05] <trentster> the linear stuff is moochas $$
[15:35:22] <malcom2073> Yeah, I get mine on ebay heh
[15:36:07] <trentster> any secret tips or ebay tricks you wish to share?
[15:36:10] <malcom2073> I signed up for THK's tech service so I could get datasheets for my rails, got a call from a sales rep. I explained to them that I bought my rails on ebay for the price, they havent called me back since :-D
[15:36:17] <malcom2073> trentster: Yeah, watch ebay every day for a couple months
[15:36:32] <trentster> I never find any deals on decent linear profile stuff
[15:36:53] <malcom2073> What do you consider a deal?
[15:37:17] <trentster> not having to sell organs to buy them
[15:37:30] <malcom2073> Follow HGR Industrial surplus, they have deals sometimes when they get big stock in
[15:37:35] <CaptHindsight> pianos are easier to sell
[15:37:56] <malcom2073> I got my 35mmx1.6M thk rails for $140 each
[15:37:58] <trentster> CaptHindsight: ;-)
[15:39:06] <trentster> malcom2073: new? used? including blocks?
[15:39:10] <malcom2073> trentster: Yeah
[15:39:24] <trentster> yes to all 3?
[15:39:28] <malcom2073> Yes
[15:39:29] <malcom2073> erm
[15:39:31] <malcom2073> New with blocks
[15:39:38] <malcom2073> That was a steal though, from HGR
[15:39:54] <trentster> wow - Thats not bad
[15:40:05] <trentster> I bet the shipping to AU alone would be more than the rails
[15:40:06] <malcom2073> They had flooded the market a year ago with big rails
[15:40:13] <malcom2073> Hah yeah, being not in the USA you're boned on shipping
[15:40:26] <trentster> not just shipping ;-)
[15:40:28] <malcom2073> Was gonna say, wanna buy a 1.6M by 3.5M linea rail setup :P But shipping would be killer
[15:41:43] <trentster> I bought some Hiwin rails for X axis and did not do enough research and got EGR rails instead of HGR - I hope I have not F*cked up too badly
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[15:42:09] <malcom2073> The HGR I was talking about is a surplus company
[15:42:09] <CaptHindsight> trentster: what is your max load?
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[15:43:35] <trentster> CaptHindsight: I am embarrased to say a) I don'r know and B) I dont know how to work it out either.
[15:45:16] <archivist> some cad packages can give you that info
[15:45:35] <archivist> add some cutting load to that figure
[15:45:52] <trentster> I have a current machine, a cnc router, it cuts most things up to aluminium pretty well - its currently using fully supported round bar for rails and speed is limited for Y axis. So I am trying to slowly upgrade as I go along
[15:46:20] <trentster> So its a juggle between adapting current machine, vs designing a new one from scratch
[15:46:56] <trentster> I have modeled my current machine in Fusion360 - but have not figured out the force modeling stuff yet (new CAD user)
[15:47:37] <ssi> trentster: the short answer is that profile rails have huge dynamic load capacities compared to what you're probably going to see in a router
[15:48:17] <ssi> my vmc has 25mm rails supporting the table... the table alone probably weighs 1000lb, and they specify a max workpiece weight of 770lb
[15:48:36] <ssi> and it's a relatively fast machine with a 15hp spindle
[15:48:45] <malcom2073> Yeah, with 20mm+ rails, your frame is going to mean a *lot* more than your rails
[15:48:52] <ssi> so imagine the loads that it can create accelerating a nearly 1 ton payload
[15:49:00] <ssi> not to mention the cutting loads with that big a spindle
[15:49:17] <trentster> its 15mm rails I have ordered for X axis (gantry) and have not ordered Y rails yet
[15:49:56] <ssi> I have 15mm rails on my plasma cutter gantry
[15:50:00] <trentster> yeah I kinda figured the frame flex would be the limniting factor
[15:50:02] <ssi> and 25mm for the Y rails
[15:50:05] <ssi> which are overkill as shit
[15:50:08] <ssi> but it's what I could get at the time
[15:50:20] <trentster> yeah for a plasma for sure there is no cutting forces
[15:50:26] <CaptHindsight> trentster: this is for the wood router?
[15:50:28] <trentster> I have a 3HP spindle
[15:50:34] <ssi> it'd be overkill as shit for a router too
[15:50:53] <ssi> the rails are definitely not the weak link in that machine
[15:51:37] <trentster> ssi: CaptHindsight so would you even bother upgrading the rails on my machine from fully supported round bar to proper linear profile rails at all?
[15:52:18] <trentster> CaptHindsight: yeah its for the wood/plastics/ aluminium router
[15:53:09] <CaptHindsight> trentster: depends on the round rails, lots of them are crap or come prelubed with grease and dirt
[15:53:28] <trentster> yeah they are pretty crappy
[15:54:18] <MrSunshine> hmmm, i wonder .. can the type of grease used in ballnuts also impare the proper function ?
[15:54:20] <trentster> I grease the rails manually periodically with white lithium grease
[15:54:43] <CaptHindsight> I give them the crunch test. I slide the bearing up and down the rail and listen for grinding sounds
[15:55:08] <trentster> yeah the one bearing has a semi crunching sound for sure
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[15:55:41] <CaptHindsight> trentster: are these new round rails?
[15:56:03] <trentster> yeah about a year old
[15:57:04] <trentster> Also remember the EGR rail != HGR. Its low profile rail so not as beefy
[15:57:10] <CaptHindsight> so already in use and on the machines (I just cathing up on your sistuation)
[15:57:20] <ssi> trentster: is there some reason why it's not working for you currently?
[15:57:30] <trentster> Normal HGR 15mm rail uses m4 mounting screw - EGR 15mm uses m3
[15:58:19] <trentster> ssi: the only issue I have is speed on the Y axis (the long run with a single ballscrew - even I go to fast it stalls out.
[15:58:42] <trentster> So I figured may as well upgrade all the rails slowly
[15:58:55] <ssi> do you think upgrading the rails is going to solve your speed issues
[15:59:31] <trentster> but I am kinda in denial as I know what probably needs to happen is new machine design with dual steppers and ballscrews on the Y axis (only 1 at the moment)
[16:00:30] <trentster> I dont need extremely fast speeds - or else rack and pinion would be the answer.
[16:00:59] <CaptHindsight> less than 7 hours left http://www.ebay.com/itm/321956179029
[16:01:18] <trentster> my max speed on Y is about 2000mm a minute which I suppose is not unusable
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[16:03:15] <trentster> anyway guys- thanks for the chat and all the advice, its 3am here I best be getting to bed soon.
[16:03:22] <ssi> single screw gantries are tough
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[16:10:50] <Erant> Any suggestions for what grit to use for lapping my X axis slide? It has 0.004" of movement when at one extreme, but no movement at the other extreme (and obviously if I tighten the gibs further, no movement on one end but it won't actually move to the other end)
[16:12:47] <tjtr33> pcw_home, you might be interested in open fpga tools http://www.element14.com/community/groups/fpga-group/blog/2014/07/21/flavia-the-free-logic-array
[16:12:50] <archivist> a scraper to get the bulk off
[16:13:07] <CaptHindsight> Erant: what and where is it actually worn? Will lapping actually improve things?
[16:13:14] <CaptHindsight> hey tjtr33
[16:13:20] <tjtr33> Erant .004 is a loty to fix with lapping
[16:13:21] <archivist> 4 thou is a lot
[16:13:33] <tjtr33> Capt hiyahiyahiya
[16:13:36] <Erant> CaptHindsight: They're not worn, they're just not parallel.
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[16:14:10] <Erant> k, maybe I should hit up lms.com, it came this way.
[16:14:19] <archivist> Erant, is this some chinesium
[16:14:23] <Erant> Yah
[16:14:32] <Erant> Which I'm paying for now, obviously.
[16:15:15] <archivist> I had the inner V of the groove in contact on one machine, used a file to fix, get some engineers blue
[16:15:28] <tjtr33> tapered gib? easier to adjust the gib than a dovetail
[16:15:55] <archivist> parallel gibs on that sort of machine
[16:16:12] <archivist> basic machining error to be fixed
[16:17:06] <Erant> archivist: Blue the slide, see where the high points are, then a file and lapping to make the surface smooth?
[16:17:07] <archivist> eg the male part done with a worn cutter lost its tip
[16:17:16] <tjtr33> yah blue it, remove high spot then rinse repeat
[16:17:32] <Erant> That'll be a nice weekend project.
[16:17:38] <archivist> making sure you keep it square etc
[16:17:44] <archivist> month
[16:17:55] <Erant> Yeah, I dont doubt it.
[16:18:28] <archivist> my hobbymat md65 lathe cross slide was like that
[16:18:51] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: are there many EDM shops in your new neck of the woods?
[16:19:18] <tjtr33> haha , i got freakin elephants and chickens
[16:19:22] <CaptHindsight> heh
[16:19:50] <JT-Shop> went to write my name in the snow and it came out in braille
[16:20:00] <CaptHindsight> just don't confuse the two when ordering at the restaurant :)
[16:20:18] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, take note of that fpga tool chain posted above ^^^
[16:20:25] <CaptHindsight> saw dat
[16:20:26] <Erant> archivist: What causes it in manufacturing? I'd assume they machine both sides in one op...
[16:20:47] <_methods> casting flexes or moves after machining
[16:20:50] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I use what works and saves me time
[16:21:02] <archivist> Erant, if the tool wears or badly setup
[16:21:12] <_methods> poor choice of operations order when machining
[16:21:16] <tjtr33> a worm side on the machine that made your slide ;-)
[16:21:36] <_methods> could be any number of failure points with little to no quality control
[16:22:26] <_methods> piss poor fixturing
[16:22:35] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, one more beer and it will be back to cursive
[16:22:36] <_methods> poor quality castings
[16:22:56] <CaptHindsight> I tend to rule out superstitious reasons first
[16:22:59] <archivist> a chill in the casting will push a cutter off
[16:23:24] <tjtr33> yeh look for that, you could have a really hard spot
[16:23:38] <tjtr33> or a void/sand
[16:23:50] <_methods> i noticed very poor grinding on my chinese mill
[16:23:51] <archivist> there will be a silver spot/area if you have a chill
[16:24:19] <Erant> I'll take it apart and look at it for a while. I'm also contacting the vendor, they've been really good (and might just send me a new slide)
[16:24:19] <_methods> among other issues lol
[16:25:03] <archivist> skill in adjusting may make it look tapered
[16:25:24] <archivist> dont adjust outside
[16:25:33] <Erant> Yeah, I don't disagree. Surprisingly, I'm still quite pleased with the thing. I probably wouldn't buy another one, but there's not a whole lot of selection in the tiny mill section.
[16:25:45] <_methods> how are you measuring this .004" taper?
[16:25:59] <_methods> dowel pin in the dovetail grooves?
[16:26:12] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: when's the next festival? Is it the "water splashing/spring"?
[16:26:13] <tjtr33> .004 slop i think
[16:26:18] <archivist> I hope two pins
[16:26:20] <Erant> _methods: Test indicator mounted to base. Move the slide.
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[16:26:31] <_methods> oh you're just measuring the slop?
[16:26:41] <Erant> Right.
[16:26:43] <_methods> i'd measure across pins
[16:27:05] <Erant> k.
[16:27:29] <archivist> I have seen the grub screws move and tighten the grip depending on slide direction
[16:29:03] <Erant> I'll take out a screw and measure the taper directly.
[16:29:50] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, sorngkran not till mid april
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[16:30:48] <tjtr33> Erant, what archivist said make sure no screws are loose wiggly, they could cock under load
[16:32:34] <tjtr33> 1) make sure one side is a straight line. 2 make sure other side is parallel to the straight side
[16:33:05] <enleth> are there any well-known guidelines on how much excess material to leave before heat treating a steel part, to be ground off afterwards?
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[16:33:57] <ssi> enleth: there's stuff in machinery's handbook about how much different types of steel will distort based on section thickness, etc
[16:34:04] <Erant> The screws are tight, so that's not the problem (turned tight, back off an eight).
[16:34:13] <archivist> some parts bend in heat treatment so depends on shape and treatment quality
[16:34:20] <tjtr33> heat treater should be able to tell you how much warp / stretch/shrink to expect for the stee; and the method chosen
[16:34:44] <tjtr33> yah shape and holes...
[16:35:32] <archivist> or how straight the old boy drops it into the oil
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[16:35:54] <enleth> seems almost worse than designing cast iron parts
[16:36:25] <archivist> ask the person who will treat it
[16:37:33] <tjtr33> well in general,in moldmaking, we were able to grind it to what we wanted so it never more than a few thou ( S7 Oseries M series P series )
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[16:40:22] <archivist> I had a roller case hardened, the journals moved!
[16:44:44] <tjtr33> ราตรีสวัสดิ์ ! /part
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[16:45:27] <_methods> witchcraft
[16:50:37] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33 disappears back into the jungle fog
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[16:55:38] <CaptHindsight> wow 28f today, a heat wave
[17:02:14] <CaptHindsight> http://epochnc.en.made-in-china.com/ Chinese linear servo manufacturer
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[17:22:15] <Erant> Actually... If the vendor goes "Sorry, not fixing it", I think I might just take it to a machine shop and have them re-cut the dovetails.
[17:22:48] <Erant> Way more accurate than I can ever be with a file.
[17:27:43] <archivist> Erant, it was normal to hand fettle after machining to get a good fit
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[17:30:19] <archivist> the bible I suppose for the work is Machine tool reconditioning and applications of hand scraping Edward F. Connelly
[17:31:42] <archivist> they do rather over charge for the book though
[17:32:11] <CaptHindsight> kids today have no patience, we used to have to make the files and scraping tools before we could even start getting a machine in shape
[17:32:41] <archivist> google for machine tool reconditioning pdf
[17:32:56] <Erant> Haha. It's not the patience I'm worried about, it's my skill ;)
[17:33:03] <CaptHindsight> lots of good videos with the masters at work as well
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[17:33:11] <archivist> not as hard as you think
[17:33:29] <Erant> Alright, file it is.
[17:34:05] <archivist> first measure, get the blue as well first
[17:34:45] <Erant> Right.
[17:34:55] <CaptHindsight> if it starts to get worse rather than better then consider going to a shop
[17:34:58] <archivist> file can take too much if not careful, I use needle files for small errors
[17:35:33] <Erant> Any tips for figuring out which side is true?
[17:35:41] <Erant> If either is.
[17:35:46] <archivist> taking apart and looking for the contact points
[17:36:20] <Erant> Right, that makes sense.
[17:36:38] <archivist> there are some web resources of the process
[17:37:42] <archivist> feel, is one thing you need
[17:39:32] <_methods> is this for an x2 mill?
[17:40:03] <_methods> if it is i'd start with the saddle
[17:40:39] <Erant> X1, but close enough.
[17:40:58] <Erant> How so?
[17:41:00] <_methods> the saddle will be easier to start with and get the hang of it
[17:41:07] <Erant> hmmk
[17:41:16] <_methods> tryin to scrape a dovetail can be challenging at first
[17:41:22] <_methods> getting into the inside edges
[17:41:34] <Erant> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bahco-625-11-Ergo-Carbide-Blade-Scraper-with-Plastic-Holder-Triangle-Blade-/171225836122?hash=item27dddaea5a:m:mFrNLvNkjUa7IEGeEs-1Fmg
[17:41:39] <Erant> Something like that?
[17:41:42] <_methods> so the saddle is nice and flat on the mating slides and easier to learn on
[17:41:54] <_methods> i'd get the sandvik one personally
[17:42:23] <_methods> 620-20 maybe
[17:43:24] <_methods> but you can make your own
[17:43:31] <anomynous> what is that tool
[17:43:58] <_methods> i think that 625-11 is for woodworking
[17:43:58] <CaptHindsight> Scraping in a dovetail - detailed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1eOQa1gYiU
[17:44:09] <Erant> CaptHindsight: Sweeeet. Thank you :)
[17:44:20] <_methods> yes scraping a dovetail is much more challenging than just scraping a flat surface
[17:44:39] <Erant> _methods: Right, I could see why.
[17:45:06] <_methods> personally that's why i'd start with the saddle
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[17:45:17] <archivist> this is the style I use http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Quality-Metal-Engineers-Hand-Scraper-Size-100mm-4-Inches-Flat-Brand-New-/181993223736
[17:45:19] <_methods> smaller area for you to learn on and it's flat
[17:45:44] <archivist> engineers hand scraper
[17:45:57] <FloppyDisk5_25> wow - that ebay store has good prices on bondhus, other stuff.
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[17:46:10] <_methods> sharpening a scraper is an art unto itself also
[17:46:13] <archivist> an old file can be ground up to that shape easily
[17:46:40] <_methods> an old file is probably the cheapest way to see if you even want to continue down this path
[17:47:02] <ssi> scrapers aren't terribly expensive
[17:47:07] <_methods> scraping isn't for everyone
[17:47:11] <ssi> and at least it'll be the right geometry out of the box
[17:47:15] <archivist> old files are cheaper
[17:47:17] <_methods> you'll find out very quickly if you're the scraping type
[17:47:24] <ssi> nobody is the scraping type :)
[17:47:36] <_methods> i find it enjoyable personally
[17:47:46] <malcom2073> ssi That's not true, I know some masochists machinists
[17:47:47] <Erant> archivist: Apparently 'machinist scraper' in the US.
[17:47:50] <ssi> so do I, so long as I don't *have* to do it
[17:48:07] <_methods> yes doing it willingly and at your own pace helps lol
[17:48:08] <archivist> its the fastest way of dealing with a rusty bed
[17:48:43] <Erant> Because this mill is so small, I can do this at the dining table while listening to music, so I probably won't mind.
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[17:48:52] <maxcnc> hi :-)
[17:49:03] <Erant> My day job's rather hectic, so these kinds of jobs can be soothing.
[17:49:09] <Erant> But we'll see.
[17:49:09] <_methods> http://www.andersonscraper.com/Anderson-Hand-Scrapers.php#Tubular Scraper
[17:49:26] <_methods> that's like the scraper everyone "loves" on this side of the pond
[17:49:37] <_methods> but i personally use a sandvik 620-25 carbide scraper
[17:49:52] <anomynous> that takes foreveeer. ive tried. cnc scraper is is the way to go.
[17:49:54] <_methods> obviously you could braze your own carbide onto whatever you want to use for scraping
[17:50:51] <malcom2073> you could use a power scraper
[17:51:10] <anomynous> whats a power scraper?
[17:51:15] <Erant> Eeeeh... That sounds like I could fuck things up real quick.
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[17:51:44] <enleth> Aren't they expensive as fuck?
[17:52:11] <anomynous> cool
[17:52:20] <archivist> power tools fsckup easy, you need to be gentle
[17:52:50] <archivist> diagnosis first
[17:53:25] <CaptHindsight> I was going to order one of the Shars face mills and then I opened a box I got with a mill and found 3. 2", 4" and 6" and 4 boxes of carbide inserts
[17:53:34] <ssi> damn
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[17:56:00] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/2UFL0Nznshad just need to swap the cat40 to bt40
[18:02:24] <CaptHindsight> I was going to just change spindle bearings until I saw this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsuura-760-CNC-Milling-Spindle-BT40-Taper-BRAND-NEW-REBUILD-Vertical-RPM-CAT40-/161605325081
[18:05:04] <CaptHindsight> I'm not sure who would spend $10K on a spindle rebuild
[18:05:54] <archivist> a fool with too much money
[18:06:20] <archivist> or a machine just too expensive to replace
[18:07:41] <CaptHindsight> looks like $10k is what the factory will charge for a rebuild, so it's 4x the actual cost
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[18:16:57] <_methods> yeah power scrapers are spendy but well worth it if you're going to be doing lots of scraping
[18:18:04] <_methods> http://www.moglice.com/Dapra/BIAXPriceList.pdf
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[18:18:57] <_methods> you can find them used on ebay for $1500 or so i think
[18:21:45] <enleth> is there even anyone besides BIAX who makes them?
[18:21:52] <_methods> i think so
[18:22:00] <_methods> but they are like "the" scraper maker
[18:22:11] <_methods> pretty much all anyone talks about
[18:22:28] <_methods> i think some people make their own out of sawzalls or something like that
[18:23:51] <_methods> apparently porter cable 444 profile sanders can make good scrapers too
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[18:27:51] <_methods> not many people scrape anymore so it's a bit of niche market
[18:27:54] <_methods> not a lot of competition
[18:29:03] <Frank__> just came in but i'd like to say i always wanted to make a cast steel machine base with scraped base by myself :D which tool do they use
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[18:31:20] <maxcnc> cool stuff
[18:31:52] <maxcnc> ReadError: what case are you using for the 525mw
[18:32:13] <ReadError> some old antec thing
[18:32:22] <ReadError> my new ones, i got some neat little coolmaster ones
[18:32:25] <ReadError> square things
[18:32:40] <maxcnc> ah
[18:32:49] <maxcnc> i try to modyfie the bigger ones
[18:32:51] <ReadError> http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mini-itx-elite-series/elite110/
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[18:34:53] <MrSunshine> gah cant that frekkin screw to work smoothly .. think ill change it to the other one i have tomorrow and check if that one behaves the same :/
[18:35:49] <MrSunshine> changed the grease type to a lithium type EP2 .. other idont know what it was but was also EP2 but alot stringier
[18:36:00] <FinboySlick> Holy crap... Can this be good? http://www.ebay.com/itm/8x8-Precision-Master-Frame-Spirit-Level-x-0-0002-10-in-Fitted-Box-S908-C693-/161620664428?hash=item25a157a06c:g:qQcAAMXQlgtSzsEi
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[18:37:29] <FinboySlick> OK, probaly a Shars or somesuch.
[18:38:22] <CaptHindsight> I picked up a level at menards https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/hand-tools/levels-plumb-bobs-accessories-kits/24-pro-box-level/p-1444436554027-c-9145.htm?tid=-1340819216578427092
[18:40:03] <Frank__> guys those of you who know me, know that im the guy who makes little stupid questions. Today: i am drilling 5mm holes for the profile linear guides "hiwin" how much tilt of the hole is problematic? im doing strange things with me bench drill.. and its by no means perfect.
[18:40:55] <CaptHindsight> maybe I got lucky but it's pretty dead nuts on
[18:41:18] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: I'd say it's the luck of the draw
[18:41:32] <CaptHindsight> like most Chinese made things
[18:41:35] <maxcnc> Frank__: you may not harm the hwin its fine as yiu got tube that stabelise the screw
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[18:42:45] <Frank__> how does the tube stabilise the drill tilt?
[18:42:52] <Frank__> hole tilt sorry
[18:42:53] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: With a square level, I don't think it'd be worth the gamble. You can adjust a level pretty darn close but fixing the squareness would be a tougher issue.
[18:43:15] <maxcnc> the thickness will alow up to 30deg
[18:43:25] <maxcnc> on fixing the hwin
[18:43:46] <maxcnc> or did you use the BAR workaround we talked about
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[18:45:01] <Frank__> the steel hole has probably 10-13mm
[18:45:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.shars.com/products/measuring/levels/8-x-1-9-16-x-8-precision-frame-spirit-levels
[18:45:22] <Frank__> depends if its on the center or the sides, as its machined flat
[18:45:59] <Frank__> no i didnt, remember that i already have a flat bar welded and machined to the tube to set up the linear guide
[18:46:33] <Frank__> i guess i will have to wait how it comes up the tapping to check if something is wrong..
[18:47:21] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: bring your metrology system to the store and pick a good one
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[18:50:19] <Frank__> this one is almost half the price of my starret and has a lot more precision, is it good?
[18:50:19] <Frank__> http://www.shars.com/products/measuring/levels/12-master-precisions-level
[18:50:59] <CaptHindsight> Frank__: see above comments about Chinese products
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[18:52:06] <CaptHindsight> they have all the same machine tools we have here, they just don't consider QC to be a virtue
[18:52:43] <Frank__> i didnt saw your comment sorry
[18:54:00] <CaptHindsight> the trick is getting lucky and avoiding know mostly bad vs just random rejects getting into the supply
[18:54:10] <CaptHindsight> know/known
[18:56:07] <Frank__> yeah lottery ticket
[18:56:42] <CaptHindsight> I don't expect to get a durable power tool from Harbor Freight
[18:57:52] <CaptHindsight> but I get a few years out of my Acer LCD monitor
[18:58:00] <malcom2073> The other trick is to get stuff from first shift, not third shift :P
[18:58:33] <CaptHindsight> 3rd shift is sold out the backdoor under a different brand name
[18:59:19] <malcom2073> Yeah, that's what you want to avoid :P
[18:59:59] <CaptHindsight> unless it's sneakers with 3 different brand names on them
[19:00:43] <CaptHindsight> check out the Ladies Market in Hong Kong if you ever get the chance
[19:01:05] <malcom2073> I don't know that I'll ever find myself in Hong Kong
[19:01:28] <CaptHindsight> I'd be surprised if you could find a single legit brand there
[19:01:37] <malcom2073> nice heh
[19:01:57] <malcom2073> I figured it'd be like walking through the "china room" at CES
[19:02:07] <CaptHindsight> X 1000
[19:02:24] <malcom2073> bunch of stuff that looks eerily familiar, but not. Like a bad dream :P
[19:02:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ladies-market.hk/
[19:03:37] <CaptHindsight> Computex is the show with all the electronics knockoffs
[19:03:57] <malcom2073> I do enjoy electronic knockoffs, if you're careful you can get some good use out of stuff
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[19:08:56] <MattyMatt> shucks. I was too cheap to buy parallels, so I got 2 pieces of 5x14mm HSS instead, but they weren't ground in he same batch
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[19:09:57] <MattyMatt> I'll cut one in half, that'll gimme a nice pair of 4 inch parallels for my vice
[19:12:51] <CaptHindsight> wow an actual deal on Craigslist near Chicago http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/for/5404169418.html
[19:16:40] <MattyMatt> variable drive could be a long nightmare
[19:17:47] <MattyMatt> and flame hardened ways sounds like a hack. could be good or ruination
[19:18:17] <MattyMatt> but hey, it's a better lathe than mine, even accounting for size
[19:18:34] <CaptHindsight> but this is Clausing the tool not the pickle
[19:19:22] <MattyMatt> not the seasonal job with the red uniform?
[19:20:50] <CaptHindsight> I'm just going to list all my tools on CL for 2-3X their value like everyone else
[19:21:53] <MattyMatt> and your house and wife
[19:21:58] <CaptHindsight> might as well list the swarf as well
[19:22:19] <MattyMatt> don't call your children swarf
[19:23:07] <CaptHindsight> hmm box of swarf with bottle of glue, sounds like a craft kit
[19:23:15] <MrSunshine> sooo i might have found the problem ...
[19:24:20] <MrSunshine> the balls recirculation path, its a plastic deflector so the balls goes out and throught a tube and back again in the other end, at the very end on them they have handground some small "lands" for the balls to go, on one side tho they have ground further from the plastic than the other leaving a bump just before the land for the balls
[19:24:54] <MrSunshine> so tomorrow some dremel work i think to smooth the lands out some, a good cleaning and reassembly =)
[19:25:09] <MattyMatt> what's the problem? just noise?
[19:26:47] <MattyMatt> I'm gonna try making ballscrews sometime soon
[19:27:02] <MrSunshine> MattyMatt: no .. intermittent locking of the nut
[19:27:04] <MattyMatt> it looks sufficient gain for the pain
[19:27:06] <MrSunshine> specialy in one direction
[19:27:15] <MattyMatt> gotcha
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[19:27:38] <MrSunshine> and in one direction that bump is bigger and i guess the preasure is put on it and the balls cant pass easily =)
[19:27:52] <MrSunshine> sucks to buy stuff then have to fix them .. but thats what you get from china stuff :P
[19:28:14] <MrSunshine> the quality of the nut internaly looks lightyears better than the other ones i had tho =)
[19:29:27] <MrSunshine> but i do not get it why they had to direct the ball path outwards like they have done a small amount .. looks like they didnt cut the pocket for the deflector deep enough
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[20:06:52] <yasnak> i know this is linuxcnc but are there any star cnc machinists?
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[20:08:56] <_methods> sorry i haven't run a star in years
[20:09:05] <_methods> probably won't be much help
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[20:10:55] <yasnak> 2006, has the ac yaskawa drive with the automatic adjustment...
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[20:12:26] <yasnak> ah well, i'll idle incase someone does. having issues with clamping mech and am wondering if its a bad spring or there is something wrong with the shifter
[20:13:06] <_methods> spindle clamp?
[20:13:08] <_methods> or chuck clamp
[20:13:18] <_methods> or drive clamp?
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[21:07:05] <yasnak> sorry, the main spindle chuck clamp
[21:08:07] <_methods> hydraulic
[21:08:11] <_methods> is it kitagawa?
[21:08:52] <yasnak> Seem to have fixed the problem but I still think that something isn't right. Seems mechanical and wear related. Might just have to bite the bullet and get on the yaskawa, siemens and star blame train to find an answer.
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[21:17:27] <_methods> you pull the collet out and check to see if anything was in there binding it up?
[21:19:19] <yasnak> Yeah i mean it definately wasn't clean but no more dirty than I can remember
[21:19:49] <yasnak> There is this spring that I can imagine must wear out over time. It seems to be what forces the collet forward when the chuck fingers let go. My guess is thats my issue.
[21:20:45] <yasnak> Anyways, lubbed the baby up and its running fine. Now I place the blame on joe operator until job is done :P
[21:20:53] <_methods> heheh
[21:21:24] <_methods> maybe operator blew some chips back in there between bars or something
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[21:23:26] <yasnak> Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was a operator issue, but its not like these machines aren't war torn. Only thing I haven't had to replace is the spindles. Main and sub, same exact original.
[21:24:21] <_methods> those stars will last forever
[21:24:23] <_methods> good machines
[21:24:40] <_methods> rarely had an issue with the ones at the shop i used to work at
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[21:26:14] <yasnak> Really? Ours seem to always run great, usually its an issue with mechanical. Like barfeeder incorrect settings and such. lazy operators not changing tooling and jams. I've modified programs (losing a few seconds) to save us some realignment but overall they're very solid.
[21:26:17] <yasnak> Support...eh.
[21:27:46] <yasnak> Just purcashed a citizen K16E, with fc7d-l barloader and a parts seperator.
[21:32:56] <XXCoder> MrSunshine: thanks
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[21:34:23] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: huh ?
[21:34:42] <XXCoder> your explain on streaching extrudes to get it in spec
[21:34:54] <MrSunshine> oh =)
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[22:23:16] <andypugh> I was just doing some turning wearing welding gauntlets. I wish I had videoed it for YouTube just for the howls of protest that you should never wear gloves to operate a lathe. I could have left the key in the chuck at tha end too, for even more howling from the Internet Safety critics who only remember two things from their Workshop Practice course.
[22:24:25] <DaViruz> i never leave the key in the chuck, mostly because i can't really see what the benefit would be
[22:24:48] <DaViruz> i wear gloves a lot of times though, hot chips hurt when you're cranking
[22:25:28] <andypugh> No, I don’t either. But if anyone ever does on a YouTube video every single comment ends up being about that and how dangerous it is, rather than anything else.
[22:25:54] <andypugh> Indeed. I was hard-turning, the swarf was glowing bright red hot.
[22:26:25] <andypugh> And I was machining the leadscrew for the lathe, so no option of power-feed.
[22:28:17] <DaViruz> most of my machine tools are pretty tiny as well, i don't have a lot of respect for them, which i guess builds a few bad habits
[22:28:30] <DaViruz> i sometimes catch myself doing silly things when using heavier machines
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[22:30:54] <DaViruz> i try not to read youtube comments too much, they get me way too worked up :)
[22:31:50] <JT-Shop> now the CHNC PC won't boot up
[22:33:41] <DaViruz> also, why the heck do the ft232 come in silly packages like lqfp-48. it literally needs like 6 pins in most cases
[22:34:19] <andypugh> On my CNC lathe leaving the chuck key in means that the chuck cover won’t close, to the spindle won’t start. You could almost claim that leaving it in was a safety interlock.
[22:35:07] <DaViruz> mine doesn't even have a chuck key ;)
[22:35:51] <andypugh> Have you ever tried to use one of those chuckj keys with a spring so that you _can’t_ leave then in the chuck? What an utter pain in the posterior those are, especially when reversing the jaws for a different job.
[22:36:31] <DaViruz> i've never used one, but i've seen them and i can imagine
[22:37:08] <JT-Shop> first thing I did was throw the springs away, they are so stupid
[22:39:08] <JT-Shop> which one means off the I or the O, I never can remember
[22:40:49] <yasnak> We had a guy get de-gloved
[22:41:00] <yasnak> Don't be stupid
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[22:43:53] <DaViruz> an acquaintance of mine got de-fingered when using emery cloth with gloves on in a big lathe
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[22:48:02] <SpeedEvil> #fingersmatter
[22:51:34] <Deejay> gn8
[22:51:40] <JT-Shop> hmm changed the power supply and now the cpu fan comes on as well the power supply fan but not boot up... check hd cable
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[22:52:06] <andypugh> I wouldn’t wear gloves if my hands were anywhere near the rotating parts. But the smell of burning hair and the pain was getting too much for me.
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[22:54:22] <JT-Shop> you know what you get if you don't plug in the 4pin 12v plug... nothing
[22:54:44] <andypugh> ow bizzarre!
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[23:00:05] <JT-Shop> second pc power supply to die in the CHNC
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[23:28:41] <FloppyDisk5_25> Do I need to manually network gearchange.0.dir-out to the spindle inputs to change direction w/ a gear change?
[23:29:05] <FloppyDisk5_25> Or does the direction change automagically?
[23:29:15] <FloppyDisk5_25> Because the direction is not changing for me:-(
[23:29:23] <FloppyDisk5_25> I have the gs2 comp as well.
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[23:30:32] <FloppyDisk5_25> Here's more of my question, along with links to pics and hal: http://pastebin.com/MzNfpW9H
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[23:35:20] <FloppyDisk5_25> I like the little buttons I made:-) http://imgur.com/gallery/evN9K/
[23:37:21] <zeeshan|2> any place online to buy safety glasses in bulk?
[23:37:25] <zeeshan|2> like 10 pieces?
[23:38:04] <FloppyDisk5_25> I wish I could the rubics cube like this... http://imgur.com/gallery/QZXFCIK
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[23:40:42] <JT-Shop> zeeshan|2: yea
[23:40:48] <zeeshan|2> wherre
[23:41:11] <SpeedEvil> TIL zeeshan|2 has 20 eyes.
[23:41:11] <JT-Shop> I can't remember but something like safety glasses dot com
[23:41:51] <zeeshan|2> http://www.uline.ca/Product/Detail/S-5685/Safety-Glasses-Goggles/Everest-Safety-Glasses
[23:41:53] <zeeshan|2> hm
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[23:42:36] <JT-Shop> my other brother John gets them from someplace else
[23:42:47] <zeeshan|2> i seem to kill glasses every month
[23:42:48] <zeeshan|2> or two
[23:43:00] <JT-Shop> safetyglassesusa.com I think
[23:45:18] <zeeshan|2> ok garage time
[23:45:18] <zeeshan|2> thanks!
[23:46:00] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan|2: how kill?
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[23:47:42] <andypugh> FloppyDisk5_25: You don’t seem to be insertting the gearchange compe between the spindle-speed-out and gs2-in comps?
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[23:50:40] <zeeshan|2> SpeedEvil: scratches
[23:52:12] <FloppyDisk5_25> andypugh - thanks! checking now.
[23:54:07] <FloppyDisk5_25> my 'net' is like this:
[23:54:39] <FloppyDisk5_25> spindle-speed-out => scale.0.in which then scales for gear 1. (gear 2 is w/ the gearchange comp)
[23:55:17] <FloppyDisk5_25> scale.0.out => gearchange.0.speed-in
[23:55:57] <FloppyDisk5_25> gearchange.0.speed-out => spindle-vfd.speed-command
[23:56:10] <FloppyDisk5_25> I think that should do it? And, I get speed changes, but not direction.
[23:57:13] <FloppyDisk5_25> I didn't pay attention to rps or rpm, the docs didn't mention it (gearchange, motmod, gs2) so I ignored.
[23:58:42] <FloppyDisk5_25> talking to myself - the darn halfiles can get to be tough to read...