Back
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[00:09:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hardinge-DV-59-Lathe/272102013849 $500 or best in Florida
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[00:14:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MUST-SELL-Mazak-Dyna-Turn-3L-CNC-Lathe-Turning-Center-w-Fanuc-Control/151945729470 $2500
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[00:17:22] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: damn you
[00:17:28] * SpeedEvil sighs.
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[00:18:03] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: too far to ship?
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[00:18:46] <Frank__> :D
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[00:19:58] <SpeedEvil> Scotland.
[00:21:09] <CaptHindsight> but you get scotch delivered fresh to your door daily
[00:21:25] <CaptHindsight> I have to drive to get a bottle
[00:22:05] <CaptHindsight> and by the time it gets here it's 12-18 years old :p
[00:24:38] <SpeedEvil> I prefer my scotch >16y - less legal issues.
[00:25:21] <CaptHindsight> hmm weight seems to be 5000 kg or 15200lbs
[00:26:32] <CaptHindsight> maybe with the chip conveyor
[00:28:28] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: The DV59 is a plain-turning lathe. Hard to think of any use for it now.
[00:29:06] <andypugh> No leadscrew, no saddle. Cross-slide and compound only. $300 is too much
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[00:29:17] <CaptHindsight> paperweight
[00:29:52] <CaptHindsight> for facing only? odd
[00:30:12] <andypugh> Makes my 1936 Rivett ornament look useful, in fact.
[00:30:14] <JT-Shop> I've unplugged the computer but the green light on the on/off button does not go out...
[00:30:24] <andypugh> JT-Shop: It will
[00:30:39] <andypugh> Capacitors and low current LEDs
[00:31:11] <JT-Shop> if I unplug the touch screen it goes otu
[00:31:12] <JT-Shop> out
[00:31:28] <andypugh> Now that is odd
[00:31:40] <JT-Shop> I wonder if the usb is back powering the pc somehow
[00:32:00] <andypugh> I was wondring the same
[00:32:14] <JT-Shop> not the monitor
[00:33:46] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/231748423747 More of the same. Super quality, expensive in the day, but really no use for anything now, especially with that strange peg-taper-nose thing.
[00:34:27] <CaptHindsight> "Top Bidder to pay actual rigging / loading charges of $400."
[00:35:03] <JT-Shop> somehow it is getting power from the 7i77
[00:35:17] <CaptHindsight> seems high if it's already in storage
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[00:37:07] <JT-Shop> dang pc won't boot up now
[00:37:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mori-Seiki-cnc-TL5-lathe/272096404864 $2400 and only 7 minutes left
[00:38:52] * JT-Shop quits looking before he buys something
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[00:39:16] <andypugh> There is a huge difference in usefulness between a Hardinge plain-turning lathe with their wierd taper nose and one with a leadscrew, power feeds and an A2 spindle nose.
[00:39:38] <XXCoder> holy shit I'm on
[00:39:55] <XXCoder> jeez half of house electrics died yeserdau
[00:40:21] <CaptHindsight> aliens? lightening?
[00:40:26] <XXCoder> unknown.
[00:40:31] <andypugh> Zombies?
[00:40:51] <andypugh> localised electron decay?
[00:40:52] <XXCoder> guy was fixing stairs and used flood light (led version so not all that much power needed)
[00:40:58] <XXCoder> it stopped worling
[00:41:23] * JT-Shop listens to take five
[00:42:02] <JT-Shop> and ponders the pc issue
[00:42:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mazak-SlantTurn-35-ATC-MC-Automatic-Tool-Changer-CNC-Lathe-1988-/321956179029 I like this one more better
[00:42:35] <XXCoder> whats weird is that all rooms either have working lights or working plugs. not both.
[00:42:37] <XXCoder> unfortunately my rooms the light room
[00:42:46] <CaptHindsight> 18-ATC Automatic Tool Changer
[00:43:02] <XXCoder> I suspect one of main branch of power broke
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[00:43:36] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: did they die or did they just lose power?
[00:43:41] <JT-Shop> I had a rat eat through one leg of my power under the pad mounted transformer
[00:44:03] <XXCoder> no idea. all breakers is on
[00:44:05] <JT-Shop> it shorted out and there was bbq rat
[00:44:29] <XXCoder> yummy
[00:44:34] <XXCoder> expensive yummy
[00:45:03] <JT-Shop> no cost to me just call the electric coop
[00:45:36] <XXCoder> house is a renter
[00:45:40] <XXCoder> so they gonna fix it
[00:45:48] <CaptHindsight> http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/09/16/nyregion/17PARROTS-hp/17PARROTS-hp-videoSixteenByNine1050.jpg
[00:46:03] <CaptHindsight> they occasionally burst into flame as well
[00:46:11] <JT-Shop> XXCoder: could be a loose neutral somewhere
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[00:46:20] <XXCoder> possible yeah
[00:46:35] <XXCoder> not my job to fix though. this hjouse has ricious wiring issues.
[00:46:51] <XXCoder> I once replaced light in my room to 3 socket type and what I saw scared me
[00:46:59] * JT-Shop says goodnight Gracie
[00:47:01] <XXCoder> wires taped using brown tape and little scorch
[00:47:18] <XXCoder> its nice and securely wired by me now
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[00:49:20] <andypugh> It probably doesn’t rain all that often in parrot-country?
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[00:50:07] <andypugh> it seems that dry stick nests are insulative.
[00:50:25] <CaptHindsight> " the machine needs some liners replaced which requires the disassembly of the turret."
[00:50:33] <CaptHindsight> ah no biggie
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[00:54:33] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Qj4AAOSwk1JWedHb/s-l500.jpg wonder how much the control is worth used?
[00:55:20] <XXCoder> build your own
[00:55:33] <XXCoder> bet thats cheaper
[00:56:01] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: I'd be getting rid of it
[00:57:02] <XXCoder> oh youre parting cnc out? in least parts you want to replace and improve?
[00:57:58] <CaptHindsight> sorry, your misunderstanding is to far from my situation
[00:58:44] <XXCoder> so whats youre planning to do
[00:59:04] <CaptHindsight> work a bit more and then sleep, hasta banana
[00:59:26] <XXCoder> lol ok
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[01:08:57] <Sync> probably around 500-2k CaptHindsight
[01:09:01] <Sync> if somebody wants it
[01:09:04] <Sync> which is the bigger problem
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[01:09:33] <SpeedEvil> If you could fully test it and show it working, before pulling, that would help
[01:09:37] <SpeedEvil> but the above.
[01:10:15] <XXCoder> half price probable higher chance but then dunno what demend is like. start high then lower across time
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[01:42:32] <Jymmm> and we have dialtone again!!!
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[03:00:17] <pink_vampire> hi
[03:00:33] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: how are you?
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[03:03:12] <pink_vampire> DaPeace: hi
[03:06:24] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: so, so
[03:06:30] <XXCoder> half of house power dont work
[03:06:42] <pink_vampire> why?
[03:06:47] <pink_vampire> what happen?
[03:07:19] <XXCoder> not sure yet
[03:07:32] <XXCoder> electrician will come evenually
[03:07:41] <pink_vampire> you have 2 or 3 phase?
[03:08:30] <XXCoder> umm whatever house normal is? lol
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[03:08:53] <jesseg> two half phases?
[03:09:14] <XXCoder> I think house is plain one phase
[03:09:28] <XXCoder> anyway
[03:09:30] <pink_vampire> if you have 3 and one drop part of youe house will not work..
[03:09:40] <jesseg> technically, it's two phases but they are 180 out so the kind of might as well be one :P
[03:09:43] <XXCoder> some rooms dont have working plugs, other not working lights
[03:10:10] <XXCoder> my room is working lights. I use plug in washing room to power on my pc
[03:10:38] <XXCoder> hopefully will be fixed before sunday because I MUST have working plug for my alarm clock
[03:11:00] <pink_vampire> go with mulimeter to the electrical panel.. and text the main lines.
[03:11:20] <XXCoder> nah dont own house, cant remove
[03:11:22] <jesseg> text "FIX" to the main lines.
[03:11:28] <XXCoder> lol
[03:11:31] <pink_vampire> test**
[03:11:39] <jesseg> text FIX to the landlord then :D J/K
[03:11:40] <pink_vampire> hehe lol
[03:11:45] <pink_vampire> omg..
[03:12:16] <XXCoder> jesseg: yeah already contacted em
[03:12:23] <XXCoder> theyre sending electrican
[03:12:33] <jesseg> cool
[03:12:41] <XXCoder> I suppose I can use same plug for my alarm clock if it comes down to it
[03:12:54] <jesseg> I suppose you checked the breakers and none of them were blown
[03:12:56] <XXCoder> you hearies is lucky with ability to buy alarm clocks that dont need plug
[03:13:07] <XXCoder> oh no forgot that
[03:13:11] <XXCoder> kidding yeah none
[03:13:37] <jesseg> Sometimes they can go open circuit but not show it, but if you toggle them off/on/off/on a few times they work again.
[03:13:43] <jesseg> Still want the electrician to come out though :D
[03:13:47] <XXCoder> I'll wait till later
[03:15:20] <ssi> it's one phase
[03:15:34] <ssi> three phase is three wires, but one phase is two wires
[03:15:51] <ssi> ABC permutes to AB, AC, BC but AB just permutes to AB :)
[03:16:35] <pink_vampire> my nails so smooth - fresh nail polish :)
[03:17:08] <pink_vampire> shine like glass
[03:17:10] <ssi> fancy
[03:17:34] <ssi> I have fresh... not hunger... as a result of eating pizza that a man brought me in exchange for money
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[03:25:40] <XXCoder> went to panda reserant
[03:25:42] <XXCoder> yummy
[03:29:57] <ssi> I'm writing GPS parsing software
[03:29:57] <ssi> hooray.
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[03:32:02] <jesseg> ssi, that sounds like fun
[03:32:25] <jdh> like nmea 183 sentences?
[03:32:54] <ssi> yeah
[03:32:57] <ssi> and extensions to it
[03:33:10] <ssi> but I did a bunch of ohter goofy crap, like gps autodetection
[03:33:26] <ssi> it can scan different devices and baud rates until it finds one that's spitting out valid sentences
[03:33:44] <ssi> and I'm trying to come up with a way to poke at the configuration sentences to try to autodetect which chipset it is
[03:36:05] <XXCoder> what would be a good servo kit for mill/lathe combo?
[03:36:33] <XXCoder> or nema 34
[03:36:43] <jesseg> Steppers or DC motors?
[03:37:42] <XXCoder> nema is stepper while servo is basically fancy added dc motors (not really)
[03:38:22] <jesseg> I think you can get DC or even AC servo motors to fit in several common nema motor mounts
[03:38:28] <jesseg> but I could be wrong
[03:39:00] <XXCoder> I'm pretty sure my uncle's machine will need custom attachment points anyway
[03:39:09] <XXCoder> so that end dont really matter
[03:39:15] <jesseg> My order of preference is favorite being closed loop steppers, second favorite servo motors, and then open loop steppers
[03:39:26] <ssi> there are plenty of nema-frame servos
[03:39:42] <ssi> I just haven't had any luck finding and good inexpensive ones that are readily available (ie not one-off on ebay)
[03:39:59] <XXCoder> closed loop I guess allows machine to know its true positon as well as commanded positon?
[03:41:02] <jesseg> Steppers are perfect when they are working perfect, but very bad if they aren't working perfect and they have a tendency to lose steps. Servos are never exactly perfect but they are usable even when they aren't working perfectly. Closed loop steppers work perfectly all the time :D
[03:41:32] <XXCoder> interesting. why?
[03:41:32] <jesseg> No lost steps, no overshoot, perfect exact movements :D
[03:41:34] <ssi> I don't really agree :P
[03:41:42] <jesseg> ssi, which part?
[03:41:47] <ssi> pretty much all of it :)
[03:42:15] <ssi> steppers aren't perfect when they're working perfectly, they have a finite resolution due to cogging
[03:42:16] <jesseg> ssi, well, you have to agree that servoes always have some error and some dynamic undesirable performance at some level, right?
[03:42:22] <ssi> they don't lose steps unless they're pushed beyond their limits
[03:42:46] <ssi> yes, but I think that the error tolerances possible in good servo systems are smaller than those in stepper systems
[03:43:06] <jesseg> oh well everything has a finite resolution. But within the hardware capability, a stepper that's not losing steps has less than a fraction of a step of overshoot or lag at all times with a good driver
[03:43:06] <XXCoder> open loop steppers wont know if something went wrong and its jamming I guess
[03:43:38] <ssi> servos don't have a finite resolution in themselves
[03:43:41] <jesseg> XXCoder, yeah that's why I hate open loop steppers. And if they skip a step or two during acceleration, then there's no way they can catch at high speeds so they skip the whole move
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[03:43:47] <ssi> they have a finite resolution related to their feedback mechanism
[03:43:51] <ssi> ie counts of their encoders
[03:44:07] <ssi> but that resolution can be unbelievably small
[03:44:11] <jesseg> ssi, yes but you can't really call it a servo if you remove the feedback :D
[03:44:27] <ssi> not talking about removing the feedback, I'm talking about improving the resolution of the feedback
[03:44:38] <ssi> my hardinge has resolvers that are geared 5:1 to the screws
[03:44:45] <ssi> so each revolution of the resolver is 1/5 of a screw rev
[03:44:53] <ssi> and the resolver has effectively infinite resolution
[03:45:01] <jesseg> that's the thing with closed loop steppers, you can run them 10 times faster because you don't have to worry about losing steps so they gain some of the functionality of a servo
[03:45:01] <ssi> limited only by the sample depth of the ADCs that read them
[03:45:27] <ssi> eh, not really
[03:45:28] <XXCoder> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema34-closed-loop-stepper-motor-system-hybrid-servo-kit/nema34-1128-oz-in-closed-loop-stepper-motors-3-axis-cnc-kit-110vac220vac
[03:45:38] <XXCoder> quite pricy but then quite powerful
[03:45:39] <ssi> lost steps in steppers comes from overaccellerating them, which is a lack of torque
[03:45:41] <jesseg> and the shotgun noise of the sensors :P
[03:46:09] <ssi> closing the loop can give you a fault if you exceed their limits but it's not really going to improve the performance remarkably
[03:46:25] <jdh> and running them faster just makes them more likely to miss
[03:46:28] <ssi> correct
[03:46:39] <jdh> and they don't miss cleanly
[03:46:52] <jesseg> ssi, well maybe I'm using the wrong words.. What I did was wired up a PIC chip to read the encoder and step the motor, actually driving it more like a brushless DC motor I guess. It gives amazing performance.
[03:46:53] <ssi> I don't think there's any such thing as a properly tuned stepper setup that could be run faster just with the addition of feedback and a closed loop drive
[03:46:57] <ssi> especially not 10x faster
[03:47:11] <ssi> jesseg: what you did is make a two phase, 50 pole servo :)
[03:47:23] <jesseg> LOL K
[03:47:41] <ssi> but one with crappy cogging performance heheh
[03:48:08] <jesseg> yeah
[03:48:25] <jesseg> but since you can run the stepper faster, you can gear it lower, and reduce the step size
[03:48:53] <jesseg> and frankly, my steppers are rubber mounted LOL, so yeah I see your point.
[03:49:12] <jdh> does the gearing make up for the reduced available torque from running them fast?
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[03:49:37] <jesseg> I do like servo motors best practically speaking, and in fact used a pic chip and wrote a vanila PID implementation in pic assembly with integrator windup prevention
[03:50:09] <jesseg> jdh, the fact that they are running like brushless DC motors is what makes up for the reduced torque of running them fast.
[03:50:24] <jesseg> Also, you can get pretty good torque running them fast if you advance the timing to 180 degrees
[03:50:51] <jesseg> Granted, at 180 degrees, they can run either way (LOL) but that is solved by switching to 90 degrees advance below a certain speed
[03:56:24] <ssi> sounds like a lot of work to reinvent the wheel :)
[03:56:52] <jesseg> Which?
[03:57:05] <jesseg> Running a stepper as a brushless DC servo?
[03:57:10] <ssi> building a servo drive for stepper motors and writing software to optimize the torque
[03:58:41] <jesseg> Well, it's not exactly reinventing a common wheel anyway. If you checked out all the stepper motors in use at this moment, how many do you think are running with an encoder and running as a DC motor? I bet you its under a fraction of a percent.
[03:59:06] <jesseg> And yet in my application, it will hopefully allow me to make use of a very useful machine that was given to me :D
[04:00:49] <jesseg> With this type of stepper, you don't need PID or anything. You essentially just step it like a normal motor, but the PIC chip acts as a middle man, and holds off steps that are sent to the motor until the motor is ready for them, which prevents it from losing a step and really boosts its performance. Otherwise, it's just stepping, no PID to tune, no integrator to wind up, etc.
[04:12:03] Tom_shop is now known as Tom_itx
[04:13:24] <Tom_itx> http://imgur.com/gallery/d869mHl
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[04:14:49] <XXCoder> dammit gonna join -pastafari religion then
[04:26:36] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I just made my own instead.
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[05:49:44] <XXCoder> your own religion eh
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[06:22:27] <Computer_barf> XXCoder: did you see the headphone sighting?
[06:22:43] <XXCoder> huh?
[06:23:53] <Computer_barf> http://i1.wp.com/laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/fsm-cords.jpg?fit=750%2C422
[06:24:25] <anomynous> goat simulator seems like a fun game
[06:24:36] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[06:24:43] <XXCoder> yeah heh
[06:25:14] <Computer_barf> may his noodley appendage bless you
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[06:49:17] <SpeedEvil> Goat simulator also android
[06:49:31] <XXCoder> fancy.
[06:54:25] <SpeedEvil> ^runs on
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[08:16:57] <Deejay> moin
[08:21:24] <witnit> mojn!
[08:24:13] <XXCoder> yo
[08:24:48] <witnit> what are some affordable ball reducer or gear reducers with minimal backlash which i can use for my turret index driven via servo
[08:26:27] <witnit> I been looking at the thomson accutrue micron types
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[08:57:29] <archivist> er wot, often a turret gets its accuracy from a peg rather than the gear driving it
[08:57:51] <archivist> peg/dog
[09:01:49] <archivist> define minimal backlash too
[09:02:43] <archivist> some just reverse the turret onto a ratchet dog
[09:06:11] <archivist> 13 arc-minutes ? 13 minutes quite an error, dunno why they put micron in the name
[09:07:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Serrated-Cutter-Steel-50-x-130-Set-Of-2-/262214821567?hash=item3d0d38a6bf:g:FkoAAOSwlV9WSgNk - what is this?
[09:08:26] <SpeedEvil> Are those dies to roll screws?
[09:08:31] <archivist> that equates to 0.216666667 degrees, here is a taiwan vertex rotary
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/wormtest/plot_vertex2_normalised.php
[09:09:01] <archivist> SpeedEvil, yes looks like it
[09:09:26] <SpeedEvil> funky
[09:09:43] <archivist> rather odd that the left end is blue
[09:10:19] <SpeedEvil> Maybe that does initial forming, so is meant to be harder?
[09:10:30] <SpeedEvil> I don't know how they properly work
[09:10:41] <archivist> do they make one long bit then cut so they are a match
[09:11:06] <archivist> look on youtube, there are vids
[09:11:14] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[09:16:23] <archivist> mostly the roll type
[09:18:38] <archivist> classic factory scenes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3JffMmvmM8
[09:20:03] <archivist> terrible camera work
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[09:22:19] <archivist> rofl, this is why ballscrews come ready bent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGzLVRvKObg
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[10:26:13] <witnit> archivist: there is already a geneva index in it and it has a locking mechanism I just want to drive it
[10:27:16] <archivist> just about anything I suppose as long as you sense it is at an index
[10:27:44] <archivist> use to the geneva thing as that is used in clocks
[10:27:47] <archivist> used
[10:32:20] <witnit> it only goes one way right now and it has a 1 second flip index time, a bit slow
[10:33:02] <witnit> think turret lathe
[10:33:18] <archivist> if that is done while moving its not a real delay
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[10:33:42] <archivist> I used to work a manual turret
[10:33:49] <witnit> how many holes?
[10:34:36] <archivist> was only a small one 6
[10:34:45] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Richards_of_Burton_clockworks/P1010205.JPG
[10:35:14] <archivist> booooooring
[10:35:51] <archivist> and the noise of the bar rattling in the bar feed tube
[10:38:05] <archivist> I think most cnc stuff has to relearn the multiple things at a time of a cam auto so the turret rotation overlaps another part of the op
[10:39:49] <witnit> imagine having an 8 second time to rotate the turret all the way around when you only need 1 flip and the part takes less than 5 seconds to make outside of turret time
[10:39:55] <witnit> so much waste
[10:40:44] <archivist> fix it to be bidirectional
[10:40:51] <witnit> thats the idea
[10:40:57] <witnit> with the servo
[10:41:33] <archivist> you can see in that pic we had dead moves too
[10:41:57] <witnit> yeah my turret is on servo cam
[10:43:04] <archivist> for real part to part speed, cnc a cam auto sliding head
[10:43:23] <archivist> or one of the 6 bar things
[10:44:25] <witnit> it has auto pullout and turret flip in 1 second currently but thats not always wanted
[10:45:30] <witnit> sometimes i just need feed stock, flip, chamfer, flip back
[10:45:47] <witnit> also some tool heads are too big to flip all the way around as they do not clear
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[10:59:59] <witnit> on this machine they have the double indexing pin on it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDt8CKZuPvM
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[11:06:58] <archivist> that has slides like my sliding head
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[11:08:20] <maxcnc> hi all Q. is there a variable that holdes the current G53 position position relativ
[11:08:41] <maxcnc> the Numberd parameters do only pesent the G54.....
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[11:15:28] <anomynous> doesnt it go from g54 up
[11:16:43] <maxcnc> its the position to the mashine coordinate system
[11:16:58] <anomynous> what is g53
[11:17:17] <maxcnc> the mashine coordinate system in respect to the homing point
[11:17:37] <maxcnc> i call it the END of work
[11:18:18] <maxcnc> last Gcode befor go to BED G1 G52 X25 Y25 Z-25
[11:18:30] <maxcnc> F whatever
[11:19:05] <maxcnc> this will bring tha mashine to the point where homing starts next day
[11:20:04] <maxcnc> anomynous: where in te world are ypou as whole US is sleeping
[11:20:16] <maxcnc> im in germany
[11:20:18] <anomynous> finland
[11:20:24] <maxcnc> cool there
[11:20:25] <anomynous> muah
[11:20:45] <anomynous> its winter. Its supposed to be cool.
[11:21:02] <maxcnc> here its only witer since 4 days
[11:21:16] <anomynous> well, it is winter, still
[11:21:25] <anomynous> ://
[11:21:26] <anomynous> :\\
[11:21:27] <maxcnc> and it wil end on thuesday acording to the weather maid
[11:21:31] <anomynous> btw
[11:21:59] <anomynous> if you could read your pos in g54 but 53, then just input 0,0,0 to g55 and read that?
[11:22:20] <anomynous> if i understood correct
[11:22:24] <maxcnc> good idee
[11:22:26] <anomynous> you want to get cutter position
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[11:23:05] <anomynous> or calculate it from g54
[11:25:53] <maxcnc> no that does not work bad thinking the G55 is the ofset to the G53 only
[11:26:45] <maxcnc> so #5241 -#5221 gives only the fixed different between this pointas
[11:28:43] <maxcnc> maybe #5420 can hold that value
[11:29:09] <anomynous> its the plunge-to-thetable-at-200%-rapid boolean.
[11:29:10] <maxcnc> im back from a real mashine one moment i need to change the pc im on a sim pc
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[11:31:44] <maxcnc> ;-)
[11:37:17] <anomynous> it wasn't that?
[11:41:13] <maxcnc> no this are the real numbers to the coordinate system itself
[11:42:12] <anomynous> wow wow wow. They are floats. They are just posing as real. THey are surreal.
[11:43:36] <maxcnc> i go back to the office ;-)
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[12:00:42] <anomynous> i got banned from my own mumble server for not remembering my superuser password
[12:07:39] <Sync> rekt
[12:08:11] <anomynous> no, its not that serious
[12:08:16] <anomynous> its just mumble server
[12:09:18] <anomynous> aaa. I need to put fedora on a stick. I may need to to recover a friend's stuff from his laptop
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[12:09:58] <maxcnc> Hi im Back gost coustomer
[12:10:10] <maxcnc> got not gost he is real
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[12:10:22] <anomynous> hey maxcnc where is my memory sticks?
[12:10:27] <anomynous> too late
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[12:11:05] <XXCoder> hurry and ask anomynous
[12:11:14] <maxcnc> there is a list of named vars but i dont find them
[12:11:34] <anomynous> hey maxcnc where is my memory sticks?
[12:11:35] <maxcnc> #<_z>
[12:11:37] <anomynous> i cant find
[12:11:53] <maxcnc> oh i killed 2 this morning
[12:12:03] <maxcnc> with a fork lift
[12:12:05] <anomynous> thats there they went? :E I need one.
[12:12:15] <maxcnc> hidding the stick on moving the mashine
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[12:12:48] <maxcnc> i missed them also for a long time
[12:13:35] <maxcnc> XXCoder: do you know if i can access the motor-pos.fb or command by a parameter var
[12:13:56] <XXCoder> dunno
[12:14:28] <archivist> maxcnc, connect it to a motion analog in pin
[12:15:58] <maxcnc> not getting the point
[12:16:05] <maxcnc> CASE
[12:16:26] <maxcnc> a coustemer today did kill the plasma water tabel by cutting to it
[12:16:49] <maxcnc> reason the Z probe forces me to give a space to mashine coordinate
[12:17:29] <maxcnc> so i want to calculate the distance from where im starting Z-probe to the Mashine Z min
[12:17:41] <maxcnc> then i can go G38 that value
[12:18:14] <archivist> I read the encoders into some variables see
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/configs/vertex/
[12:18:20] <maxcnc> in respect not setting the Zmin in ini lower then the watertabel
[12:19:08] <archivist> so I have net apos-cmd motion.analog-in-02
[12:20:10] <maxcnc> thats within the hal but i need it in gcode
[12:20:35] <maxcnc> can i access apos-cmd in gcode
[12:20:49] <archivist> and read it with M66E0L0
[12:20:51] <archivist> #<stepangle>=#5399
[12:21:28] <maxcnc> cool trick
[12:21:45] <maxcnc> we need to document this somwhere
[12:22:03] <archivist> I am logging the command and encoders either side of the worm dividing
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/wormtest/wormtest.ngc
[12:32:31] <XXCoder> jeez this is insane.
https://youtu.be/lzzD1aNsLVU
[12:33:49] <enleth> archivist: do you have any experience with hydraulic rotary tables? Do they still use classic worm gears or some kind of direct pressure application to position and hold the moving armature?
[12:35:57] <XXCoder> another video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i84PRVPieeU
[12:36:33] <archivist> enleth, probably an extension of the classic capstan design with a piston
[12:38:18] <archivist> enleth, luckily i have managed to stay clear of hydraulic machines, we had one at work and the boss played with it and would return covered in crap
[12:39:07] <archivist> this one
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010203.JPG
[12:39:46] <archivist> the front cover plate is essential :)
[12:41:42] <maxcnc> archivist where is the list of the nmberd parametes
[12:41:50] <maxcnc> numberd
[12:42:08] <Sync> lol britan
[12:43:23] <enleth> archivist: the way I'd expect it to be done, it could be two high-torque, low speed unidirectional hydraulic motors mounted directly on the table's shaft, one CW the other CCW, with full working pressure being applied to both during operation
[12:43:46] <enleth> archivist: it'd turn by shifting the pressure balance towards one of the motors
[12:44:02] <enleth> I wonder if any actual hydraulic rotary tables work that way
[12:44:21] <archivist> or two pistons and racks
[12:44:26] <enleth> Some linear positioning systems work that way
[12:44:55] <enleth> archivist: but then you get a mechanical gearing that has backlash and so on
[12:45:21] <archivist> not is both are under pressure
[12:45:26] <archivist> is/if
[12:45:52] <enleth> Ah, so the racks would act like a split nut on a screw
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[12:46:21] <archivist> maxcnc,
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gcode/overview_pl.html#_numbered_parameters_a_id_sub_numbered_parameters_a
[12:46:40] <archivist> enleth, identical to two motors
[12:47:00] <enleth> Are there two-motor tables?
[12:47:10] <archivist> but often you need a rigid stop anyway
[12:47:35] <maxcnc> Thanks
[12:47:53] <archivist> so rotate to position and push in the dog
[12:48:05] <archivist> or apply brake
[12:55:09] <maxcnc> archivist: thanks thad did the trick
[12:56:08] <maxcnc> It shoud not bee that hard to get the position from the mashine origin
[12:56:26] <maxcnc> in parameter to use in gcode
[12:56:35] <maxcnc> need to ask cradek
[12:56:39] <maxcnc> on this
[12:57:04] <maxcnc> maybe knowone cuts to his watertank bevore
[12:57:12] <maxcnc> noone
[12:57:38] <maxcnc> ok im off bye
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[14:54:57] <JT-Shop> rut row, hd errors on the BP
[14:55:23] <archivist> not having much luck there
[14:57:27] <zeeshan> hd errors?
[14:58:00] <JT-Shop> that's what it says when I try and boot it up
[14:58:23] <JT-Shop> it's been flaky a bit lately
[14:58:25] <archivist> is it just cold
[14:59:02] <JT-Shop> 60°F in the shop
[14:59:40] <archivist> temperature swings and condensation
[14:59:57] <JT-Shop> it just booted up
[15:01:42] <zeeshan> no linuxcnc?
[15:02:19] <JT-Shop> yea linuxcnc on ubuntu 10.04
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[15:15:48] <enleth> JT-Shop: that's a good excuse to get an SSD for a replacement
[15:16:49] <archivist> I need to do that for the CMM living in the garage
[15:18:59] <archivist> almost cheap enough these days
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[15:27:40] <Sync> they were cheap enough for quite a long time
[15:27:48] <Sync> especially if you don't need much storage
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[15:29:11] <ssi> they're cheaper than platter hard drives in sizes appropriate for cnc machines :P
[15:29:25] <archivist> I dont have spare cash though
[15:29:46] <ssi> that's cause you spent it all on junk off ebay :D
[15:30:06] <archivist> spent not that much
[15:30:23] <archivist> I do need a regular wage
[15:39:54] <Nick001> Anyone with better insructions for using clonezilla? Tried it yesterday and it did copy everything to the ssd but it's not booting. mounted it again as secondary and it says bootable.
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[15:44:11] <anomynous> Nick001, see how to use grub. After youve copied your stuff to ssd you can use mount command to mount it to a directory
[15:44:22] <anomynous> thats equilevant to windows drives
[15:44:28] <anomynous> then you can chmod to that directory
[15:44:34] <anomynous> and install grub
[15:44:39] <anomynous> grub is the boot loader
[15:45:14] <anomynous> thats what i would do, anyway
[15:45:43] <anomynous> mm. Maybe you need to tinker first grub.conf and after again after running grub
[15:45:47] <anomynous> :D
[15:46:08] <zeeshan> where can i buy a hoody or shirt w/ chips on it
[15:46:33] <MrSunshine> just put it under the lathe/by the mill for a couple of days
[15:46:35] <anomynous> or you could ask someone do it via ssh :D If you feel like trusting they wont bork your computer
[15:46:47] <zeeshan> MrSunshine: linuxcnc logo
[15:46:48] <zeeshan> silly
[15:46:49] <zeeshan> :P
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[15:47:12] <zeeshan> Nick001: its prolly kmissing grub
[15:48:29] <Nick001> is grub a file program or one of those endless install things?
[15:48:37] <zeeshan> its a bootloader
[15:49:38] <Nick001> Under stand that - how do I get it into the secondary while I can see it?
[15:50:28] <anomynous> modify grub.conf and run it.
[15:50:34] <anomynous> dont remember if you need any params
[15:51:15] <anomynous> running it means it inserts first stage loader onto MBR which also contains primary partition data
[15:51:55] <anomynous> its... tiny. And bios cant load an arbitary thing on HD
[15:52:38] <Nick001> will that sill work putting that info into a secondary drive?
[15:53:23] <anomynous> if you are going to boot it
[15:55:43] <Nick001> I'm cloning my HD because it's getting querky at times and an SSD is supposed to be faster and more reliable and should last longer than these 80 gig platter boxes
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[15:56:36] <archivist> ssd does not have the write life of the realthing
[15:57:56] <Nick001> I'm driving a Hardinge with it how much writing does it do without being hooked to the internet?
[15:58:38] <MrSunshine> calculated from what ive heard an ssd today could hold up for constant writing and reading for like 20 - 30 years :P
[15:58:38] <archivist> not a lot, might outlast you
[15:59:33] <MrSunshine> got my frist ssd a couple of days ago =)
[15:59:40] <Nick001> That's what I'm going by
[15:59:43] <MrSunshine> i do not regret it ... linux boots in a couple of seconds =)
[16:00:01] <archivist> MrSunshine, this is why ballscrews come ready bent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGzLVRvKObg
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[16:01:57] <maxcnc> hi ;-
[16:04:02] <Nick001> I guess they're not holding a tenth or 2 per foot on the lead.
[16:04:45] <archivist> I was searching for something else and found that
[16:05:35] <archivist> I imagine that is a normal c6/c7 grade rolled screw
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[16:29:32] <Tom_itx> zeeshan have one screen printed
[16:29:38] <zeeshan> no
[16:29:42] <zeeshan> no time
[16:29:48] <Tom_itx> then sell em here :D
[16:29:50] <zeeshan> just want to click buy
[16:29:51] <zeeshan> :)
[16:30:11] <PetefromTn_> you lazy bastidge ;)
[16:30:18] <zeeshan> haha too many projects
[16:30:21] <zeeshan> i told my friend the other day
[16:30:31] <zeeshan> the day i finish the lathe (Which is on the very bottom of my list right now)
[16:30:36] <zeeshan> is the day I will take on more projects
[16:30:41] <zeeshan> no matter what their size
[16:30:48] <zeeshan> you don't want to see my list :(
[16:30:59] <zeeshan> there is a subaru engine rebuild on the top priority list
[16:31:06] <archivist> should have asked me 30 years ago, we did dye sublimation printers for t shirts
[16:31:22] <zeeshan> please someone make a chips slogan shirt
[16:31:28] <zeeshan> i'll pay upto $40 for it
[16:31:41] <PetefromTn_> Can't you print using a pC printer on Tee shirts now?
[16:31:43] <zeeshan> as long as it's on stretchable cotton-nylon type of fabric
[16:31:53] <zeeshan> 100% cotton itches the crap out of me
[16:32:05] <PetefromTn_> wow you sure are a pussy hehehe
[16:32:21] <zeeshan> my skin being sensitive makes me a pussy?
[16:32:29] <PetefromTn_> I would like one too tho seriously
[16:32:31] * Tom_itx gives zeeshan a wool hoodie
[16:32:37] <zeeshan> :P
[16:32:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151945729470 $2650 loaded in your trunk
[16:33:22] <Tom_itx> zeeshan part out the subaru and get a real car
[16:33:31] <PetefromTn_> ouch LOL
[16:33:31] <CaptHindsight> heh
[16:33:36] <Tom_itx> haha
[16:33:37] <zeeshan> subaru was the best car i owned
[16:33:44] <zeeshan> even had more fun it than rx7
[16:33:50] <Tom_itx> yeah i actually like em except for their weird wiring
[16:33:50] <zeeshan> goes to show power isn't everything
[16:33:54] <zeeshan> until it blew up
[16:34:04] <PetefromTn_> no the best car you owned was the RX7 with the rotary...:D
[16:34:12] <zeeshan> thanks for the laugh lol
[16:34:18] <zeeshan> http://linuxcnc.org/images/linuxcnc_logo.png
[16:34:19] <zeeshan> someone plz!
[16:34:25] <zeeshan> high rez version of chips is needed
[16:34:51] <zeeshan> whoever made the new linuxcnc website
[16:34:51] <PetefromTn_> I have a friend that does car wraps and stickers and tee shirts I think too
[16:34:52] <zeeshan> good job
[16:34:54] <zeeshan> looks great
[16:35:06] <PetefromTn_> new website?
[16:35:07] <Tom_itx> iirc that was seb
[16:35:15] <zeeshan> http://linuxcnc.org/
[16:35:16] <zeeshan> yes that one
[16:35:21] <zeeshan> i havent been to the main page in a while
[16:35:45] <PetefromTn_> definitely looks clean and pro
[16:36:06] <maxcnc> is there a NEW Logo Challenge on
[16:36:17] <zeeshan> i like the logo alot
[16:36:24] <zeeshan> need one that is high res for a t-shirt
[16:36:35] <maxcnc> Why not with a §D builder
[16:36:40] <zeeshan> i got inspired by a girl i saw yesterday wearing a github hoody
[16:36:44] <zeeshan> i thought that was very cool.
[16:36:45] <maxcnc> or a Mill as it has Started with
[16:37:53] <Tom_itx> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/chips-happy.png
[16:38:46] <zeeshan> haha
[16:38:59] <Tom_itx> http://www.deltatau.com/Common/images/linux-penguin.jpg
[16:39:09] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i thought of another cool shirt idea
[16:39:19] <PetefromTn_> WTF is with the windows icon in that pic?
[16:39:20] <zeeshan> a tormach lathe on a fp50cc-t
[16:39:26] <zeeshan> er tormach mill
[16:39:29] <zeeshan> getting machined :)
[16:39:39] <PetefromTn_> you have issues my friend ;)
[16:39:41] <zeeshan> haha
[16:40:00] <PetefromTn_> I will get a Tormach tee shirt and send it to you as a gift :D
[16:40:03] <zeeshan> one of my friends own that garbage
[16:40:24] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/2Tfsqnof7vno
[16:40:33] <zeeshan> the whole thing vibrates when taking serious cuts in steel :P
[16:40:45] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: chips is pixelated :-(
[16:41:25] <CaptHindsight> not ready for print edition
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[16:43:26] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXrEpRTP-ek
[16:43:29] <zeeshan> everyone chill out
[16:43:33] <zeeshan> and listen to gravity sound track
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[16:43:39] <zeeshan> i can see why it won an oscar
[16:44:03] <zeeshan> steven price -- good composer
[16:44:09] <zeeshan> i think hans zimmerman is good
[16:44:15] <CaptHindsight> yikes, not
http://makezine.com/2016/01/15/electronics-that-last-how-i-built-an-heirloom-laptop/
[16:44:20] <zeeshan> suprised he didn't win an oscar for interstellar
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[16:45:15] <PetefromTn_> surprised you would like that actually.
[16:45:29] <Tom_itx> http://imgur.com/gallery/d869mHl
[16:45:38] <PetefromTn_> at least you don't come across that way....it is right up my alley tho so all good :D
[16:45:45] <zeeshan> :))
[16:45:53] <archivist> wrapping a turd in imitation wood does not make it any better
[16:46:20] <zeeshan> archivist: i have first hand proof you're 100% wrong
[16:46:21] <zeeshan> :)
[16:46:30] <zeeshan> i woulda thought like you too!
[16:46:32] <malcom2073> archivist: Maybe not, but it certainly makes people spend more money on it
[16:46:34] <zeeshan> but im a believer now
[16:46:45] <zeeshan> archivist: my first batch was 40
[16:46:49] <malcom2073> Which is better than them spending less money on it, if you're selling it :P
[16:46:50] <zeeshan> next batch was 100
[16:46:55] <zeeshan> now im making another 40 more
[16:47:12] <archivist> still a wrapped turd!
[16:47:15] <Tom_itx> you can retire with those
[16:47:26] <zeeshan> lol
[16:47:32] <zeeshan> legacy -- polished turds
[16:47:34] <Tom_itx> btw ole fart what did you do for a living?
[16:47:53] <Tom_itx> ... made polished turds
[16:48:30] <zeeshan> did ishow you the crazy part im making?
[16:48:34] <zeeshan> for a repeat company
[16:48:40] <zeeshan> i had to get them to change it a bit
[16:48:44] <Tom_itx> i don't think so
[16:48:46] <zeeshan> cause i couldn't machine some of the features accurately enough
[16:48:51] <Tom_itx> the drum?
[16:48:59] <zeeshan> hm i dont think i posted
[16:49:08] <zeeshan> it's a good one to think about how to make
[16:49:20] <Tom_itx> musta been a super top secret one
[16:49:51] <PetefromTn_> Tom that is one badass picture man
[16:54:15] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/g6RZtzU.png
[16:55:09] <zeeshan> woulda been easy if it had square edges
[16:55:29] <zeeshan> but all those radiuses (which when i saw in their assembly drawing -- its pretty clear they are necessary)
[16:55:32] <zeeshan> make the part complex
[16:55:34] <archivist> internal corner phail
[16:56:18] <malcom2073> zeeshan: You need to paste "Redacted" all over that
[16:56:19] <malcom2073> it'd be funnier
[16:57:05] <zeeshan> malcom2073: :P
[16:57:15] <zeeshan> better to be safe than sorry
[16:57:26] <malcom2073> Parts like that are why I don't ever wanna do external work
[16:57:26] <malcom2073> heh
[16:57:42] <zeeshan> i got them to change the .125 radius to .25"
[16:57:49] <zeeshan> and now i can go quick with a 1/2" ball nose
[16:58:00] <Tom_itx> ball nose the edges
[16:58:01] <zeeshan> im 3d milling it
[16:58:03] <zeeshan> the entire thing
[16:58:07] <zeeshan> just gonna walk away
[16:58:20] <archivist> I had a silly 1 thou step on a ratchet drawing
[16:58:37] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/hsJg8Vv.png
[16:58:44] <zeeshan> shows the toolpath im following
[16:58:53] <zeeshan> 1 thou step?
[16:58:54] <zeeshan> haha
[16:59:05] <zeeshan> was it part for an ant? :)
[16:59:08] <Tom_itx> pretty fine on the edges
[16:59:29] <Tom_itx> you could go a little coarser and tumble the parts
[16:59:42] <zeeshan> no tumbler unfortunately
[16:59:48] <Tom_itx> sand em
[16:59:51] <zeeshan> i can't buy anymore big pieces of equipment
[16:59:57] <zeeshan> until 1-2 years
[17:00:00] <archivist> zeeshan, actually it was the wheel in this pair
http://gears.archivist.info/gears/P9190296_500.JPG
[17:00:02] <zeeshan> i need to move to my 3000 sqft shop
[17:00:08] <zeeshan> one day :{
[17:00:22] <zeeshan> archivist: wheres the 1thou step
[17:00:38] <archivist> I told them no way, I removed it
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[17:00:42] <zeeshan> ah
[17:00:43] <zeeshan> haha
[17:00:49] <Tom_itx> archivist i must say, you got gears figured out
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[17:01:01] <archivist> the scallop
[17:01:14] <archivist> the edge had a step
[17:01:24] <zeeshan> when i think of archivist i think -- pro watch maker -- pro gear maker -- has tools i want :)
[17:01:40] <Tom_itx> hah
[17:01:40] <archivist> but no one is buying gears!
[17:02:01] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan That is an impressive part man..
[17:02:49] <PetefromTn_> I would be curious to see how you fixture that to hold onto it for second sides
[17:03:20] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: first op the part is longer
[17:03:31] <zeeshan> i rotate it to its side and machine half of it
[17:03:34] <Tom_itx> holding tabs
[17:03:39] <zeeshan> then i flip it
[17:03:53] <zeeshan> and support it with a extra blocks that i have machined
[17:03:56] <zeeshan> and machine the other side
[17:04:02] <zeeshan> i still need to make 4 more
[17:04:04] <zeeshan> ill try to shoot vid
[17:04:24] <zeeshan> the first op is the longest because of 10 thou step over 3d mill
[17:04:31] <zeeshan> its like 45 min
[17:04:41] <PetefromTn_> that is an ambitious part I look forward to the video...
[17:05:07] <PetefromTn_> nothing to hold onto nothing to bolt down easily, long tapers, etc. etc.
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[17:05:55] <zeeshan> this part reinforces to me don't get click happy with fillet feature in solidworks
[17:05:55] <zeeshan> lol
[17:06:16] <zeeshan> it goes from $120 part to $300
[17:06:17] <PetefromTn_> hehe I know right
[17:06:32] <PetefromTn_> I LOVE clicking the fillets
[17:06:33] <zeeshan> 5 second click
[17:06:35] <zeeshan> lol
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[17:06:38] <PetefromTn_> makes shit look so legit
[17:06:39] <zeeshan> me too
[17:06:41] <Sync> yeah no shit
[17:06:52] <zeeshan> but they need it
[17:06:56] <malcom2073> Smooth is where it's at!
[17:06:59] <Sync> and then you cry because your program runs forever
[17:06:59] <zeeshan> because theres wheels that come from a few directions
[17:07:03] <zeeshan> and it needs to slide into this locking thing
[17:07:10] <zeeshan> thats why they have the crazy taper too
[17:07:17] <zeeshan> at a non standard angle
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[17:08:03] <zeeshan> they were telling me if the prototypes work, then will be die casting it in china
[17:08:31] <PetefromTn_> fuckers... :(
[17:08:40] <Sync> kek, then you could have gotten away with a much larger roughness
[17:08:54] <Sync> or they investment cast
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[17:09:04] <Sync> which is plenty fine, even from china
[17:09:19] <zeeshan> die castin faster
[17:09:30] <zeeshan> they send their die
[17:09:33] <Sync> yeah
[17:09:34] <Sync> well
[17:09:34] <Sync> then
[17:09:39] <zeeshan> and they get a 1000 parts back in like 2 months
[17:09:49] <zeeshan> with 100 failures
[17:09:50] <zeeshan> :)
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[17:10:46] <zeeshan> you guys should move up here
[17:10:47] <zeeshan> lets form a company
[17:11:05] <zeeshan> ive noticed there is a huge market for prototyping shops with short lead times
[17:11:08] <PetefromTn_> I will be moving to Florida...come on down man and we will work together
[17:11:12] <zeeshan> most prototype shops have a 5 week lead time
[17:11:24] <zeeshan> if you can do it in 3 days, you can charge 1.5x more
[17:11:26] <zeeshan> and they're ok
[17:11:31] <malcom2073> Canada is like Florida, except with snow, and no floridians
[17:11:41] <PetefromTn_> eh no
[17:11:44] <zeeshan> haha
[17:11:50] <zeeshan> i love canada :(
[17:11:54] <Sync> hm, not sure if I'd want to move to canadia
[17:11:55] <PetefromTn_> man I just listed my house
[17:12:14] <PetefromTn_> been trying to sell it myself so I don't have to pay the blood sucking realtors
[17:12:15] <zeeshan> sync we had the choise in 1996 to move to usa to canada
[17:12:20] <zeeshan> we visited both
[17:12:29] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Canadian alligators? Do they end every sentence with "Ehh"?
[17:12:29] <Sync> PetefromTn_: want to have your machines slowly rust away? :D
[17:12:35] <PetefromTn_> but I just listed it three days ago
[17:12:36] <zeeshan> checked out houston, dallas, ny, florida and cali
[17:12:36] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Chomp eh
[17:12:41] <Jymmm> lmao
[17:12:47] <zeeshan> miami and orlando
[17:12:48] <malcom2073> Nah zeeshan lives in east canada, they're no real canadians, they're french
[17:12:49] <malcom2073> :P
[17:12:49] * malcom2073 runs
[17:12:51] <Jymmm> malcom2073: and eat poutine?
[17:12:51] <PetefromTn_> and they are showing it like crazy
[17:13:00] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: nice!!!!!!
[17:13:01] <zeeshan> it'll sell!!!!!1
[17:13:03] <zeeshan> :)
[17:13:10] <PetefromTn_> we have two showing this afternoon
[17:13:17] <PetefromTn_> showed it twice yesterday
[17:13:24] <PetefromTn_> its unfreakinbelievable
[17:13:33] <malcom2073> Need to up the price! heh
[17:13:34] <PetefromTn_> Sync why?
[17:13:47] <Sync> the salty air ;)
[17:13:50] <PetefromTn_> malcom2073 no I need to sell this beotch
[17:13:56] <malcom2073> Sync: Climate control!
[17:14:03] <PetefromTn_> meh I lived there for years and never had a problem
[17:14:16] <PetefromTn_> my RF45 and my 12x36 lathe lived there for a long time
[17:14:34] <PetefromTn_> I actually got much more rust here from condensation from cold than anything else..
[17:15:23] <zeeshan> i want to say something mean to sync
[17:15:31] <zeeshan> but i am not going to :P
[17:15:32] <Sync> yeah idk, I'd probably move to MI or something
[17:15:34] <Sync> doit zeeshan
[17:15:37] <zeeshan> sync no
[17:15:39] <Sync> no balls
[17:15:40] <zeeshan> that is the shit hole of usa
[17:15:53] <zeeshan> (literally the slums)
[17:15:55] <malcom2073> No, that's Jersey
[17:16:10] <Sync> well, I know some people there
[17:16:16] <Sync> and the last time I was there it was nice
[17:16:18] <PetefromTn_> Michigan IS indeed a shithole
[17:16:25] <PetefromTn_> so are parts of jersey
[17:16:44] <PetefromTn_> plus they have all that lead poisoning now right?
[17:16:47] <zeeshan> yes
[17:16:49] <zeeshan> in warren
[17:16:50] <zeeshan> it's fucked.
[17:17:00] <zeeshan> they've been drinking lead water forever
[17:17:05] <zeeshan> and the gov was trying to cover it up
[17:17:21] <PetefromTn_> unbelievable
[17:17:32] <zeeshan> 2016 and we still got lead poisoning
[17:17:36] <zeeshan> :[
[17:17:38] <PetefromTn_> Man I would be so pumped if our house sold and I can move back to florida
[17:17:51] <zeeshan> pete is it cold in tn
[17:17:56] <zeeshan> like does it snow there
[17:17:56] <malcom2073> TIL that clicking "I don't know this person" to random invites on linked in screws them over, woot
[17:17:57] <Sync> same problem here zeeshan
[17:18:00] <PetefromTn_> I will be fishing my ass off instead of freezing it off
[17:18:07] <zeeshan> i take that as a yes :P
[17:18:15] <PetefromTn_> it does snow here
[17:18:23] <PetefromTn_> we get a couple good dustings a year
[17:18:32] <Sync> there is a mining town here that has super high silver levels in their water
[17:18:34] <PetefromTn_> but mostly it is just cold and miserable during the winter
[17:18:43] <Sync> so the local govt shut the water supply down
[17:18:54] <PetefromTn_> like monday it is supposed to be raining and high of 31
[17:18:56] <zeeshan> silver i'll drink
[17:18:59] <zeeshan> lead not so much:)
[17:19:14] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: ah so it is chilly
[17:19:17] <zeeshan> mild i guess
[17:19:42] <Sync> well, a part of my city (500k people) also has no tap water because there is super high manganese in it
[17:19:50] <Sync> and nobody really knows why
[17:20:00] <malcom2073> "Something in the water"
[17:20:30] <PetefromTn_> if you call below freezing MILD then yeah...which makes me realize how much Canada must suck LOL
[17:20:58] <zeeshan> haha
[17:21:02] <zeeshan> its been pretty mild up here
[17:21:21] <zeeshan> couple of 5 degF days
[17:21:23] <zeeshan> but mostly in the 30s
[17:23:10] <PetefromTn_> the coldest I ever saw here was -10F on top of Mt. Leconte
[17:23:46] <PetefromTn_> anytime it gets below 50 for me I start LOATHING going outside tho so its all perspective I suppose.
[17:24:37] <Sync> the only annoying thing about winter is that I hate working in the car shop
[17:24:57] <Sync> as the heating cannot keep up with the heat input it'd require
[17:25:18] <zeeshan> i love winter
[17:25:22] <zeeshan> snowmobiling, atving
[17:25:23] <zeeshan> is a lot of fun
[17:25:24] <PetefromTn_> every morning when I got to work in the race shop
[17:25:28] <zeeshan> ice fishing, ice skating
[17:25:47] <PetefromTn_> they have to move all the nice cars outside to make room to work on the ones they will be working on that day
[17:26:01] <PetefromTn_> so for awhile I might as well be standing outsid
[17:26:03] <PetefromTn_> e
[17:26:15] <PetefromTn_> then if they are doing dyno runs which they do A LOT
[17:26:29] <PetefromTn_> they have to open the doors and put fans in place to cool the car
[17:26:37] <PetefromTn_> so again it is cold as shit in the shop
[17:26:47] <Sync> yeah, dyno cells ftw.
[17:26:51] <PetefromTn_> other than that they close the doors and put on the heat
[17:26:59] <PetefromTn_> and it is quite comfortable in there
[17:27:24] <Sync> well, the problem is that it is an old 50s industrial building with nice roof windows
[17:27:54] <PetefromTn_> this is a huge metal building on a crete slab :(
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[17:27:56] <Sync> but well, they don't seal anymore and never were insulated to any degree
[17:28:12] <Sync> so it always is chilly in there
[17:28:24] <PetefromTn_> and to think I used to bitch when it was hot outside in Florida hehehehe
[17:28:42] <Sync> the office is a small drywall thing inside the shop building, it is not too bad
[17:28:46] <PetefromTn_> I would rather be hot than cold ANY FREAKING DAY....
[17:28:47] <CaptHindsight> my favorite part of winter is going outside a having the feeling that someone is belt sanding your face
[17:29:06] <archivist> fsck that feeling!
[17:29:23] <PetefromTn_> I know right I HATE that biting cold face thing
[17:29:46] <CaptHindsight> it doesn't seem to bother some people
[17:30:36] <PetefromTn_> feels like it is a punch in the face....all over your face ;)
[17:33:13] <Sync> pfft
[17:33:31] <Sync> the fun starts when you are getting splashed with warm rain on the left and hail on the right
[17:33:45] <Sync> happened to me when we were in the alps and got inbetween some weather fronts
[17:34:07] <CaptHindsight> have fun everyone, I'm off to give the post office some packages to lose
[17:39:31] <PetefromTn_> yeah that sounds lovely NOT
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[17:39:46] <Sansi> hi @ll
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[17:56:38] <thesaint> just started snowing here in middle germany, winter has finally arrived... :-)
[17:57:03] <PetefromTn_> I'm so sorry for you ;)
[17:57:41] <ReadError> shucks
[17:57:50] <ReadError> no MESA until tuesday ;(
[17:57:53] <archivist> we need a bit more global warming
[17:57:58] <ReadError> ole MLK day
[17:58:08] <PetefromTn_> archivist HEHEHE
[17:58:31] <thesaint> PetefromTn_, lol...
[17:58:39] <zeeshan> archivist: not nice to downplay global warming
[17:58:55] <PetefromTn_> its perfect to downplay global warming
[17:59:02] <zeeshan> then you dont know enough about the subject
[17:59:07] <thesaint> luckily my workshop is in my nice warm basement :-)
[17:59:25] <archivist> zeeshan, when one cannot heat the house I need all the external heat I can get
[17:59:46] <zeeshan> we might be owned
[17:59:48] <zeeshan> but our kids are owned
[17:59:54] <zeeshan> *we might not be
[18:01:07] <zeeshan> http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
[18:01:10] <zeeshan> is a good palce to start
[18:01:17] <zeeshan> they dont have all evidence though
[18:02:22] <zeeshan> but i think we're ok, since we have linuxcnc
[18:02:32] <malcom2073> global warming is so 2002, it's called climate change now
[18:02:32] <zeeshan> we can feedfoward the shit out of the earth
[18:02:47] <malcom2073> Mainly because idiots couldn't wrap their head around global warming causing colder winters :P
[18:03:57] <zeeshan> hehe
[18:04:54] <zeeshan> theyre not idiots though
[18:05:00] <thesaint> zeeshan, lol...
[18:05:02] <zeeshan> i totally understand, most people dont have the time and energy to read about it
[18:05:10] <PetefromTn_> Well gotta go meet a customer to pickup some prototype parts just in time too the shit's getting deep in here LOL
[18:05:27] <malcom2073> zeeshan: I'm talking about those who refuse to learn
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[18:07:40] <anomynous> go tell indians about global warming. They tell you we care after we can swap places with you
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[18:07:43] <anomynous> :D
[18:07:56] <malcom2073> Priorities are relative :P
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[18:10:32] <thesaint> anomynous, a couple more degrees in india would for sure be a problem. its damm hot there already...
[18:11:43] <anomynous> people are greedy. Global warming is about as likely to stop as poverty is likely to vanish.
[18:11:50] <anomynous> i think
[18:12:53] <anomynous> but dunno
[18:13:16] <thesaint> anomynous, i agree.
[18:14:01] <anomynous> but this world wont go on for long anyway. ;) People care for the nature and all, but don't care about their souls. Life is short anyway.
[18:16:10] <thesaint> anomynous, well as long as its not so short as i cant get a new cnc lathe...lol
[18:18:35] <thesaint> anomynous, or more importantantly at this precise point in time feed my chihuahas... - they can be vicious when hungry :-)
[18:22:19] <FloppyDisk> chihuahas are vicious when they're not hungry...
[18:22:36] <thesaint> FloppyDisk, lol...
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[19:08:18] <CaptHindsight> WTH? Fedex doesn't observe MLK day but has modified service on Good Friday
[19:09:54] <CaptHindsight> ReadError: Mesa via USPS?
[19:11:25] <ReadError> ya
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[19:14:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115571/ the "documentary" about what is really causing climate change
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[19:27:19] <FloppyDisk> Can I cgi out the main character?
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[19:30:35] <thesaint> CaptHindsight, lol...
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[19:38:10] <thesaint> has anyone made their own lathe headstock before?
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[19:41:12] <SpeedEvil> easy - if you don't need much.
[19:41:39] <SpeedEvil> Couple of bearings, morse tapered shaft with a pulley, job done.
[19:42:41] <SpeedEvil> Once you get beyond the range where truck wheel bearings will suffice, or you can use your own babbit bearings, starts to get complex.
[19:43:49] <thesaint> SpeedEvil, i am just a bit beyond that now. at the moment i have an alu casting with deep groove on each end, doesnt quite work good enough. going to make something a bit better..
[19:45:04] <gregcnc> how big?
[19:46:06] <SpeedEvil> And what do you mean by 'quite good enough'
[19:47:00] <gregcnc> I made a milling spindle. it's just about tolerance and runout. I didn't make the actual spindle shaft though.
[19:47:10] <thesaint> SpeedEvil, 80 microns specifically radial play.
[19:47:11] <CaptHindsight> thesaint: I'm working on some polymer granite headstocks
[19:47:26] <gregcnc> If you get really picky you have to deal with thermal issues.
[19:48:09] <gregcnc> spindle bore?
[19:48:20] <SpeedEvil> thesaint: I said truck bearings for a reason - tapered bearings with preload on each end of the shaft
[19:48:27] <thesaint> gregcnc, headstock will be around 85mm square and 120 mm long so not big..
[19:48:44] <thesaint> CaptHindsight, sounds interesting...
[19:48:54] <gregcnc> make this fit?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOW-DUNHAM-50M-PLAIN-NOSE-PRECISION-HEADSTOCK-SPINDLE-3600RPM-HARDINGE-COLLET-/151825191493?hash=item23597c9245:g:5IgAAOSwFnFV~b9e
[19:49:20] <gregcnc> here's what I made.
http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/cncspindle/
[19:49:29] <CaptHindsight> thesaint: I might put that on hold for a bit and get this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321956179029
[19:49:37] <thesaint> SpeedEvil, ok, i was thinking tapered roller opposing on the front and ball bearing at the back - i had no ideas trucks used that type of bearing.
[19:50:05] <SpeedEvil> http://cad.timken.com/item/ed-roller-bearings-tsf-tapered-single-with-flang-2/ler-bearings-tsf-tapered-single-with-flange-metric/x32009x-y32009xr-2
[19:50:27] <thesaint> CaptHindsight, lol.. bit big for my needs.
[19:50:49] <CaptHindsight> tapered roller bearing have been in cars for years
[19:50:50] <SpeedEvil> $10 per
[19:51:33] <gregcnc> I have one of those Dunham sindles, but mine was some basic version and had deep plain groove bearings. I have some P4 to make a new cartridge, but don't have a use yet.
[19:52:04] <gregcnc> Is a taig or Sherline spindle inadequate?
[19:52:39] <thesaint> gregcnc, that is actually doable but the price they want is ridiculous.
[19:53:11] <thesaint> gregcnc, no, needs to be a bit stronger. i want to turn steel.
[19:53:35] <gregcnc> how big and fast?
[19:54:21] <thesaint> 2000rpm max, 80mm diam chuck, not to big but i want it quite accurate.
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[19:55:33] <gregcnc> right those size machines are tough to find. Like the Emco i'm rebuilding.
[19:56:00] <thesaint> SpeedEvil, yes, those would be a good fit for the bearings, thanks...
[19:56:16] <thesaint> gregcnc, what sort of emco? i just rebuilt a pcturn55...
[19:56:28] <gregcnc> Compact 6 /120
[19:56:50] <thesaint> cool...
[19:56:57] <gregcnc> It has 45mm taper rollers
[19:57:05] <thesaint> that sounds fine.
[19:57:18] <thesaint> mine has simply deep groove..
[19:57:32] <thesaint> for the rest of the machine it is not up to standard...
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[19:57:58] <gregcnc> replace them with angular contact?
[19:58:09] <gregcnc> precision
[19:59:10] <gregcnc> the compact 6 had regular P6 grade. for little more I found P5. The turn 220 and 320 have 4 angular contact P4 bearings.
[19:59:14] <thesaint> gregcnc, yes, that is a possibility.
[19:59:25] <CaptHindsight> how much do you want to spend vs reliability and accuracy
[19:59:36] <thesaint> but if i have to do that i will make a new headstock also.
[20:00:27] <thesaint> CaptHindsight, its not so much what to spend, its just there are no real options for the machine apart from making your own.
[20:00:44] <gregcnc> I haven't looked at the Turn 55 headstock.
[20:00:57] <gregcnc> why not look for an Emco 320 or 325?
[20:01:03] <thesaint> CaptHindsight, i completely rebuilt the machine so its working nice apart from the headstock - the only bit i did nothing much with.
[20:01:22] <thesaint> gregcnc, yes, i am also looking for something else now.
[20:01:57] <thesaint> gregcnc, its just a bit of a shame as the little emco is actually quite nice now..
[20:02:20] <gregcnc> Or a GT27 lathe
[20:02:25] <thesaint> gregcnc, i rebuilt the cross slide, ground the bed, put in a mesa card..
[20:02:45] <thesaint> gregcnc, i would like a schaublin 125 ccn.
[20:02:57] <gregcnc> lots of work
[20:03:19] <thesaint> gregcnc, to do the refit?
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[20:03:27] <gregcnc> schaublin is a different class, you must be in europe
[20:03:41] <thesaint> gregcnc, its always of comprimise - work or money! lol..
[20:03:49] <thesaint> gregcnc, i am in europe :-
[20:03:53] <thesaint> :-)
[20:04:05] <gregcnc> schaublin cnc are not common here
[20:04:15] <gregcnc> US
[20:04:26] <thesaint> they are more common here, they do come up...
[20:04:38] <thesaint> so i am looking!
[20:05:50] <gregcnc> I was watching an auction for Emco turn 155. but it sold for more than I was willing to spend without having inspected it.
[20:07:01] <thesaint> you have to be careful with them and have had a bit of experience to know what to look at...
[20:08:11] <gregcnc> they are all from schools here, so have probably been crashed countless times
[20:08:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emco-CNC-Lathe-/131699732184 how much bigger is a 155?
[20:09:01] <CaptHindsight> bigger/larger
[20:09:51] <gregcnc> http://columbus.craigslist.org/for/5360791751.html this one has pneumaitc drawbar/tailstock, 12 tools 6 driven c-axis
[20:09:57] <thesaint> gregcnc, yes, for sure, which means all sorts of potential problems that you really have to check for (like drilling from the turret)
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[20:10:23] <CaptHindsight> wow, much larger
[20:10:36] <gregcnc> Emco makes a true industrial version (E25) with real fanuc and servos.
[20:10:45] <thesaint> CaptHindsight, - mine is a pcturn 55 - very small :-) but perfect for learning linuxcnc lathe.
[20:11:14] <thesaint> gregcnc, they have a real strange collection of different machines.
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[20:12:31] <gregcnc> yes the small stuff is interesting for home shop if you don't have much space. I have PC Mill 125.
[20:13:20] <gregcnc> Is Spinner any good?
[20:14:24] <thesaint> gregcnc, yes, spinner very good.
[20:15:09] <gregcnc> I saw SB lathe about the same size as the Emco 155, probably expensive
[20:15:26] <thesaint> CaptHindsight, that emco 155 looks very nice.
[20:15:48] <thesaint> gregcnc, the spinner is probably a little better build wise than emco.
[20:16:34] <gregcnc> It weighs 1000kg more than 155, about the same as Turn 325II
[20:18:16] <Erant> Huh, the micro mill is surprisingly capable of milling 1018 cold rolled.
[20:18:39] <Erant> It's not setting any speed records, obviously, but it's also not 1IPM.
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[20:22:39] <thesaint> yes, that says a bit..
[20:22:47] <thesaint> gregcnc, yes thats says a bit..
[20:23:22] <thesaint> Erant, the taig micro mill?
[20:24:31] <gregcnc> 155 isn't really a production machine., but I think the 120/220/320 all use the same casting, but 220 and 320 have a concrete filled base cabinet and 320 has servos instead of steppers.
[20:24:45] <gregcnc> but those are very old now
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[20:26:05] <Erant> thesaint: Sieg SX1P.
[20:26:25] <Erant> 1/3HP spindle.
[20:27:29] <thesaint> Erant, yes, i have quite a few videos on youtube, looks good for the size but to be capable you really need a machine that weighs in around 800kg imo
[20:28:04] <Erant> Oh, I know.
[20:28:25] <thesaint> you cant be physics - mass is king.
[20:28:30] <thesaint> beat
[20:28:36] <Erant> But it's something that fits nicely in my small-ish shop, and I'm not doing anything huge.
[20:28:52] <t12> unless youre going into orbit
[20:28:56] <t12> then mass is definately not king
[20:29:38] <CaptHindsight> water filled machine bases
[20:31:21] <gregcnc> water?
[20:31:35] <thesaint> CaptHindsight, mass yes, the rest no... :-)
[20:32:02] <thesaint> CaptHindsight, i just bought an epoxy granite mill...
[20:32:53] <CaptHindsight> thesaint: what does it use for linear motion?
[20:33:44] <thesaint> CaptHindsight, ballscrews, linear rails and servos...
[20:34:16] <CaptHindsight> hmm maybe a machine base that you add sand water and binder to
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[20:34:49] <SpeedEvil> sand, water, and freeze.
[20:35:16] <thesaint> actually the machine base is an interesting point. at the moment it doesnt really have on, just mounts on a stand on rubber feet...
[20:35:33] <gregcnc> what is it?
[20:35:54] <thesaint> fs3mg exended with tool changer, 28k spindle..
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[20:36:33] <thesaint> 5kw.
[20:36:52] <thesaint> servos all axes, mesa card and soon linuxcnc..
[20:37:15] <thesaint> will put a touch of system on there also..
[20:37:42] <CaptHindsight> I often start with granite surface plates since Shars is so close
[20:37:47] <gregcnc> That looks like a nice machine. Was the control missing or dead?
[20:38:10] <thesaint> gregcnc, you buy it without control and do that yourself..
[20:38:36] <gregcnc> Oh. interesting
[20:38:41] <thesaint> basically you just get the machine with motion system of your choice in place..
[20:39:02] <thesaint> best bang for my buck... i think.
[20:39:03] <CaptHindsight> and Enco delivers next day with the occasional web deal on surface plates
[20:39:54] <thesaint> CaptHindsight, its a thought to put it on something heavy, i have to look into the actual physics of it and then might consider doing something.
[20:39:56] <gregcnc> CaptHindsight I was going to use a surface plate for my frankenmill, but didn't plan right and it wouldn't fit on a 18x24
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[21:23:05] <aventtini3> hy guys
[21:23:09] <aventtini3> bobo are you on?
[21:23:45] <aventtini3> its some one online that can give me a error code on the maho mh500
[21:23:52] <aventtini3> error from side cabinet
[21:26:58] <CaptHindsight> thesaint: how much is that machine for just the base, motors and mechanical parts?
[21:27:23] <CaptHindsight> no controls
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[21:33:49] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: (what machine?)
[21:40:11] <CaptHindsight> fs3mg
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[21:53:53] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:03:08] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUaC0LmzDbc Mineralguss CNC Fräsmaschine FS3MG
[22:03:49] <CaptHindsight> Mineral casting CNC milling machine
[22:06:12] <CaptHindsight> guss ist nicht ein Ente
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[22:43:48] <JT-Shop> log pile has became a log stack I'm taking the rest of the day off
[22:45:25] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Where's the Log roll?
[22:46:30] <JT-Shop> they were rolling down the hill all day long... tired of chasing them
[22:50:09] <Jymmm> poor bastard
[22:50:18] <JT-Shop> the logs?
[22:50:29] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: No, you chasing them
[22:50:37] <JT-Shop> it's fun
[22:51:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Dont know if your interested or not, but I came up with a prototype log carrier
[22:51:23] <Jymmm> really reduces the rehandling
[22:51:27] <JT-Shop> hand or ?
[22:52:18] <JT-Shop> your song for the day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jjiWS__Mp0
[22:52:27] <Jymmm> It's basically a U frame, you put down, and stack your wood pile as normal.... When you need a load, you just grab the handles and carrt it in
[22:52:39] <Jymmm> carry*
[22:52:51] <JT-Shop> got a photo of the device?
[22:53:45] <Jymmm> Sorry, no. I've only made one prototype, then have stove issues. 32 of them would do a full cord, then you can hse off and stack them till next season
[22:53:56] <Jymmm> hose*
[22:54:33] <Jymmm> Each one holds 18"x18" worth of wood apx
[22:54:39] <Jymmm> maybe a little less
[22:55:33] <JT-Shop> more like 38 if your wood is 18" long
[22:56:03] <Jymmm> any length actually
[22:56:04] <JT-Shop> 43 for 16" long wood
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[22:56:51] <JT-Shop> my point is a cord is 128 cubic feet of neatly stacked split wood so length is a factor in how many it takes to hold a cord
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[22:57:31] <Jymmm> If it's a half cord (8ft wide x 4ft tall), you would set 6 across, load with wood, then set 6 more on top of that, and load those up.
[22:57:55] <Jymmm> These are just cariers, you still need to stack properly; fense post, etc.
[22:59:02] <Jymmm> I think the the 3rd row might be too high to pull off that much wood though.
[22:59:19] <JT-Shop> a cord has three dimensions
[22:59:29] <Jymmm> face cord
[22:59:36] <JT-Shop> no such thing
[22:59:54] <Jymmm> A face cord is equal to a single stack of wood four feet high and 8 feet long and as deep as the length of the firewood being sold. A ½ face cord is a stack of wood four feet high and four feet long. A 1/4 face cord is wood stacked 2 feet high and 4 feet long.
[23:00:23] <JT-Shop> there is only one measure of firewood and it is the cord, a face cord, rick, rack, mess, pile, load are all made up
[23:00:48] <Jymmm> Ok, then half a cord.
[23:01:11] <Jymmm> but I ave yet to see 24" long longs
[23:01:16] <JT-Shop> that is 64 cubic feet
[23:01:43] <Jymmm> and?
[23:01:47] <JT-Shop> any three dimensions that equal 64 cubic feet is 1/2 of a cord
[23:03:26] <Jymmm> Ok, 8x4x1.5
[23:03:40] <JT-Shop> 18" firewood 4' high needs to be about 10.75' long to be a 1/2 cord
[23:04:43] <Jymmm> your right.
[23:07:08] <JT-Shop> I've been elected Chef de la journée so time to start dinner
[23:07:43] <Jymmm> enjoy!
[23:08:01] <JT-Shop> a new chicken dish the wife came up with
[23:08:23] <JT-Shop> if it is as good as it looks I'll post it on my web site
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[23:09:01] <CaptHindsight> CNC Cookbook
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[23:10:03] <JT-Shop> different section
[23:10:38] <JT-Shop> see everyone in the morning
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[23:19:28] <t12> https://tv.nrk.no/serie/ikke-gjoer-dette-hjemme#t=26m
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[23:37:07] <FloppyDisk> umm, they saved the beta fish.
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[23:49:36] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[23:52:22] <XXCoder> fancy.
https://youtu.be/oF0pMILT7_Y
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