#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-12-01

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[00:12:11] <MattyMatt> not easy enough for every stepper driver tho
[00:13:18] <MattyMatt> I guess supplying the motor and driver matched makes it possible
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[00:16:37] <MattyMatt> I'm assuming there's no encoder, as you wouldn't need a panic stop if you could make up lost steps more reliably
[00:16:54] <andypugh> Talking about stepper drivers, Zapp spammed me earlier with this drive:
[00:16:57] <andypugh> Talking about stepper drivers, Zapp spammed me earlier with this drive:
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[00:17:09] <andypugh> Talking about stepper drivers, Zapp spammed me earlier with this drive: http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/electrical-products/servo-systems/ac-and-dc-brushless-servo-drivers/fd-range-346/fd112-aa-000-ac-servo-stepper-motor-driver.html
[00:19:05] <MattyMatt> meh, one more half bridge and it could do 5 phase stepper too
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[00:25:02] <MattyMatt> I can see that driver being handy if you want to crack on with a build for an indecisive boss
[00:25:50] <MattyMatt> who can't count :)
[00:29:05] <MattyMatt> or maybe in a factory with a mix of motors. they are trying to push bundles of 30
[00:30:04] <andypugh> It’s a decent price for a brushless drive. The stepper-option is just a bonus.
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[00:30:46] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[00:31:57] <MattyMatt> arrivederci
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[00:40:03] <MattyMatt> my ebike driver needs an upgrade, if I get more batteries :)
[00:40:59] <MattyMatt> on 24V it fails entirely to shift my weight on the gentlist incline
[00:41:39] <MattyMatt> gentleist? is it even I word? I can't f'ing spell it
[00:42:42] <malcom2073> It is now!
[00:43:51] <MattyMatt> superlative adjective: gentlest
[00:45:54] <MattyMatt> anyway, wintertime. I think I'll bring the batteries in and try my EDM on them
[00:47:07] <MattyMatt> ATX freaks and shuts down
[00:47:43] <MattyMatt> like instantly, no twitch from the solenoid at all
[00:52:13] <MattyMatt> here's an idea for a brushless AC driver. circular lead acid cell with 3 set of plates, half full of acid. slosh cell around to commutate
[00:54:48] <MattyMatt> that idea is so stupid I gotta go grab a beer
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[01:02:28] <andypugh> MattyMatt: I think that peak RPM would be limited.
[01:02:38] <andypugh> Probably better to use a trough of mercury instead.
[01:03:01] <MattyMatt> liquid lithium
[01:03:34] <MattyMatt> or lithium electrodes at least, so the input motor can be smaller thanthe output one
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[01:06:47] <MattyMatt> or make the cell flat and shallow, and have ultrasonic waves in the acid
[01:07:15] <MattyMatt> STUPID! DRINK BEER NOW!!!
[01:07:56] <andypugh> I just swapped the light fitting in my living room to one that hasn’t been smashed by a model helocopter (it’s only been like that for 4 years). I needed new bulbs, so got LEDs. Now I find that my dimmer won’t turn the LEDs off. Presumably the dimmer itself takes enough current to light LEDs (it’s a clever infra-red remote one, controlled by a spare button on the TV remote)
[01:09:07] <greg_> most LED bulbs stateside are dimmable now, but some list compatible dimmers
[01:09:51] <andypugh> These are dimmable bulbs.
[01:10:08] <andypugh> The problem ls that they only dim. They don’t turn off :-)
[01:10:51] <greg_> Oh, they don't turn off, so incadecent was pulling current even when off?
[01:11:53] <andypugh> I had CFL previously, those appeared to turn off, and would dim too. (though last time I ran with them dimmed for a long time, one started making noises and smells…)
[01:12:43] <andypugh> The dimmer only sees live and load, so presumably has to pass a bit of current to power itself.
[01:13:10] <greg_> almost of my CFL are dead now, 90% didn't make it 2 years let alone the "7 year warranty"
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[01:13:56] <andypugh> Our government pushed CFL pretty heavily, then suddently LED came along, with better efficiency and none of the drawbacks.
[01:14:29] <malcom2073> Weird, I've never had a CFL died, I have a couple that I must have bought like 6-7 years ago
[01:14:34] <MattyMatt> I wish I'd bought more CFL when they 50p for 5. those last too
[01:14:51] <andypugh> But, I actually need more light in this room that the LEDs are giving, so I guess that some halogens will be going in.
[01:14:59] <malcom2073> I want to move to LED though, LED s are getting really nice
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[01:15:23] <MattyMatt> the skinny ones with 2 loops seem to last. they don't burn out like the 3 loop ones
[01:15:47] <greg_> All brands too. Feit is a common Chinese brand, but Sylvania and Phillips maybe.
[01:15:50] <MattyMatt> just get more LED
[01:16:20] <MattyMatt> some of those programmable RGB strips
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[01:16:59] <greg_> last week i replaced caps in LED drivers. GU10 bulbs. The only one that hadn't flickered or died in the year i had them had a Rubycon capacitor.
[01:18:27] <MattyMatt> I've had some cheap LED pop when the lamp was jiggled (wobbly B22) but it was the LEDs themselves that popped
[01:18:49] <Magnifikus> whttp://pastie.org/10593749 is this okay for linuxcnc? its rpi2 with 4.1.13 rt full kernel
[01:22:32] <MattyMatt> someone was saying yesterday that rpi2 is no better than rpi1 for latency
[01:22:57] <Magnifikus> yeah but rpi1 cpu is fast as a snake
[01:23:11] <Magnifikus> like you press left cursor and machine moves 5 sec later
[01:24:53] <MattyMatt> I get that on my Athlon 1.2 if GL preview is on
[01:25:13] <MattyMatt> more like 1 second, but it's still bloody annoying
[01:25:49] <Magnifikus> yeah dont like it
[01:25:56] <Magnifikus> esp when you jog z-axis down :D
[01:26:01] <MattyMatt> yep :)
[01:26:04] <Magnifikus> STOP FFS
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[01:27:35] <andypugh> If that is a problem then there are real-time inputs for jogging with, unaffected by GUI larency
[01:27:56] <andypugh> Keyboard jogging is a bit risky on any machine, when you look at it.
[01:28:01] <Magnifikus> yeah working on hardware jog
[01:28:10] <Magnifikus> but now compiling machinekit lets see
[01:28:13] <MattyMatt> oh wow, I didn't know that'd help
[01:28:19] <Magnifikus> than i need to build my hal component to interface the fpga
[01:28:25] <Magnifikus> and than i care about jogging :D
[01:28:40] <andypugh> As for the RPi latency, I don’t know what the numebers mean. Which realtime system are you using?
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[01:29:03] <Magnifikus> rt preempt full
[01:29:28] <Magnifikus> machinekit blog called xenomai dead cause rt preempt is getting better now
[01:29:44] <Magnifikus> but im not that critical anymore if i move the stepgen into the fpga also
[01:30:02] <Magnifikus> first try is pulsewidth setting
[01:30:12] <Magnifikus> and position feedback
[01:30:36] <andypugh> 105uS latency isn’t great, but PCW says that it is OK if you move stuff to FPGA, and if the FPGA compensates
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[01:30:45] <malcom2073> Heh, I've crashed my machine on the beagleboneblack a couple times because of keyboard input lag
[01:31:18] <Magnifikus> maybe i can get it to use a specific core
[01:31:21] <Magnifikus> exclusive
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[01:31:59] <andypugh> isolcpus is meant to do that (with RTAI, not sure about preempt)
[01:32:01] <CaptHindsight> like the idea behind isolcpus= ?
[01:32:49] <CaptHindsight> it was supposed to work with any kernel
[01:34:54] <Jymmm> Jiffy Popcorn?
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[01:35:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/redneck-fire-alarm.jpg
[01:35:52] <CaptHindsight> even Orville Redenbuferebackers
[01:35:59] <Jymmm> heh
[01:35:59] <zeeshan> orville popcorn?
[01:36:33] <Jymmm> Orville Redenbacher
[01:37:03] <Jymmm> this dude http://a3.files.biography.com/image/upload/c_fit,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,h_1200,q_80,w_1200/MTE1ODA0OTcxNDM2NzA1Mjkz.jpg
[01:37:27] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rthHSISkM7A Jerry's House of Popcorn
[01:37:59] <CaptHindsight> 30 years ago
[01:38:02] <Magnifikus> where is an option to tell linux to stay of a specific core
[01:38:09] <Magnifikus> and when you just do taskset
[01:42:50] <andypugh> Magnifikus: Try isolcpus in the grub command line
[01:43:27] <andypugh> Magnifikus: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?The_Isolcpus_Boot_Parameter_And_GRUB2
[01:43:28] <Magnifikus> later ty first i need to compile machinekit that complains distro '' is unknown :)
[01:43:34] <Magnifikus> and i got uboot
[01:43:42] <Magnifikus> but thats cmdline.txt then
[01:43:52] <andypugh> Yes, I just remembered that you will be using uboot not grub.
[01:44:09] <Magnifikus> uboot is awesome
[01:44:18] <Magnifikus> on zynq i use it to bootstrap everything
[01:44:25] <Magnifikus> execute uboot via jtag
[01:44:34] <Magnifikus> and than load all stuff over ethernet :)
[01:45:01] <andypugh> Anyway, time to leave
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[01:46:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.denx.de/wiki/view/DULG/LinuxKernelArgs
[01:46:31] <CaptHindsight> I've only paid for the 5 minute kernel argument so I have to leave now as well
[01:47:17] <Magnifikus> nn
[01:54:14] <malcom2073> That moment when you go to send "I love you" to your significant other, but iphone sucks and you send it to your boss.
[01:55:47] <Jymmm> malcom2073: suck up
[01:56:01] <malcom2073> Haha that's what he said.
[01:56:21] <Jymmm> malcom2073: just be glad HE, isn't a SHE =)
[01:56:51] <malcom2073> Haha, amusing in that it makes it LESS awkward
[01:57:43] <Jymmm> But, if you had added 'man' at the end, then no problem.... "I love you man!" Cause then your boss would have know you weee just shitfaced at the time.
[01:57:56] <malcom2073> I'm on travel for work right now.... heh
[01:58:00] <Jymmm> ...and a happy drunk =)
[01:58:16] <CaptHindsight> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-W1AGckheWRs/T6a_1rYG2EI/AAAAAAAAAAQ/0rs1AuEiQEA/s1600/RAMPS1.4schematic-errors.png seriously, they haven't fixed this?
[01:59:35] <malcom2073> Yeah, they should really update all the images all over the internet
[01:59:37] <malcom2073> :P
[02:00:28] <malcom2073> Or at least on their wiki, but meh
[02:01:00] <MattyMatt> if only wiki was user editable
[02:01:17] <malcom2073> If only people who noticed it would fix it.....
[02:02:17] <MattyMatt> actually I've given up on reprap wiki, because it has never remembered my login, so I've had to make a new account for each edit. v tiresome and the user names were getting silly
[02:02:29] <MattyMatt> MattyMattyMattyMatt etc
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[02:28:17] <Tom_itx> anybody ever use a spaceball with SW?
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[02:30:47] <zeeshan> youre a space ball!
[02:33:22] <malcom2073> I have a spaceball
[02:33:31] <malcom2073> But I don't have SW anymore
[02:33:39] <zeeshan> i have one too
[02:33:41] <zeeshan> but i hate it :P
[02:33:55] <zeeshan> <-ctrl,shift+middle mouse button type of person
[02:37:06] <os1r1s> Tom_itx I've used one
[02:37:25] <Tom_itx> what did you think of it?
[02:37:28] <Tom_itx> over a mouse
[02:37:41] <os1r1s> Much, much better
[02:37:45] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, SW and CATIA don't see eye to eye on mouse
[02:37:58] <os1r1s> It doesn't really replace the mouse, it really serves a different function
[02:38:06] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, was it just a ball or the whole damn mouse console thingie?
[02:38:18] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, such as?
[02:38:29] <zeeshan> http://www.3dconnexion.com/fileadmin/templates/images/3dx_category_page/smp_thumb.png
[02:38:31] <zeeshan> thats what i have
[02:38:35] <zeeshan> it collects dust now
[02:38:40] <os1r1s> Tom_itx I use the spacemouse pro
[02:38:47] <os1r1s> Similar to the one pictured above
[02:38:49] <Tom_itx> http://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacemouse/spacepilot-pro.html
[02:38:58] <Tom_itx> the school here has a bunch of those
[02:39:04] <os1r1s> So one of the more frequent things I need to do is zoom around the model
[02:39:08] <Tom_itx> nobody uses them
[02:39:14] <zeeshan> scroll the mouse wheel up
[02:39:18] <zeeshan> to zoom in :P
[02:39:19] <os1r1s> rotate, zoom in, zoom out, etc
[02:39:22] <os1r1s> Its not the same
[02:39:27] <zeeshan> click middle mous ebutton
[02:39:33] <os1r1s> I can position my parts with much better accuracy
[02:39:35] <zeeshan> to rotate :P
[02:39:43] <os1r1s> Its still not the same
[02:39:46] <zeeshan> i can tell you this much
[02:39:50] <Tom_itx> http://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacemouse/spacenavigator-for-notebooks.html
[02:39:55] <os1r1s> We have about 200 of those at work. And next near every engineer uses them
[02:39:56] <Tom_itx> is that usefull at all?
[02:40:01] <zeeshan> ive tried to use mine for a year
[02:40:07] <zeeshan> and i did not find that it made mre anymore productive
[02:40:18] <zeeshan> same here osr1r1s
[02:40:21] <zeeshan> most people have it
[02:40:25] <zeeshan> i notice its a preference thing
[02:40:27] <Tom_itx> way back when, i had a thumb ball mouse i used
[02:40:35] <Magnifikus> wow this zmq mess with machinekit, i got now 2 3 and 4 oO
[02:40:36] <os1r1s> Tom_itx That will help with the zooming/rotating/positioning
[02:40:47] <Tom_itx> but not selecting?
[02:40:51] <os1r1s> But I like the spacepilot becuase it gives you shortcut keys
[02:40:58] <os1r1s> To extrude, shell, etc, etc
[02:41:03] <os1r1s> So you can really zip along
[02:41:08] <zeeshan> press e to extrude
[02:41:10] <os1r1s> And the keys are programmable to the functions you like
[02:41:11] <zeeshan> :P
[02:41:13] <Roguish> Tom_itx: i have a SpaceNavigator and like it. works with ProE, SW, acad, mastercam, Ansys.....
[02:41:56] <Tom_itx> too bad CATIA and SW don't use the same mouse functions
[02:42:04] <Tom_itx> they didn't think that thru very well
[02:42:13] <os1r1s> Tom_itx You can set it in the software of the mouse
[02:42:15] <zeeshan> the only thing i would say in my opinion the space navigator is better at
[02:42:18] <os1r1s> So the same buttons do the same thing
[02:42:20] <zeeshan> is it's more smoother in positioning
[02:42:48] <Roguish> u may be able to 'reprogram' a bit.
[02:42:55] <Tom_itx> yeah
[02:43:09] <Tom_itx> i probably should get a 3 button mouse at least
[02:43:14] <os1r1s> Tom_itx I use SW on my laptop a lot. And when using a laptop the spacepilot makes life a ton easier
[02:43:21] <Tom_itx> i got a boxfull of 2 with wheel
[02:43:22] <malcom2073> Tom_itx: Still using the old 1 button? :P
[02:43:30] <os1r1s> If you only use it on a desktop, it may be less interesting
[02:43:40] <Roguish> good luck finding a real 3 button mouse.
[02:44:01] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, what do you mean?
[02:44:13] <Roguish> they're all the 2 + wheel. press the wheel for the middle button. PITA
[02:44:21] <os1r1s> Well, using a mouse with a laptop on your lap is a pain
[02:44:24] <Tom_itx> agreed Roguish
[02:44:27] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: why do you think you need a space navigator
[02:44:29] <os1r1s> And the laptop trays suck
[02:44:33] <zeeshan> what are you trying to accomplish?
[02:44:34] <Tom_itx> zeeshan i didn't say i did
[02:44:43] <os1r1s> But the spacepilot allows you to be very effective
[02:44:44] <zeeshan> do you think itll make you faster?
[02:44:46] <Tom_itx> i was asking because they have them at the local school
[02:44:55] <Tom_itx> not many get used
[02:44:59] <zeeshan> theres a reason for that
[02:45:02] <zeeshan> =P
[02:45:03] <os1r1s> zeeshan It doubles my speed on complex assemblies
[02:45:10] <Tom_itx> and that's the reason for asking... nimrod
[02:45:11] <zeeshan> os1r1s: you want a challenge?
[02:45:17] <zeeshan> lets make an assembly right now
[02:45:19] <os1r1s> zeeshan No
[02:45:20] <Tom_itx> haha
[02:45:21] <zeeshan> lets see who can do it faster :)
[02:45:22] <Tom_itx> here goes
[02:45:27] <Tom_itx> zeeshan... done!
[02:45:39] <zeeshan> im telling you!
[02:45:42] <os1r1s> I've got too much work to do prepping for a car delivery Friday
[02:45:43] <zeeshan> its a preference thing at the end of the day
[02:45:58] <zeeshan> some people swear by it, some don't
[02:45:59] <PetefromTn_> oh shit
[02:46:09] <os1r1s> Tom_itx If you can borrow one for a bit, give it a shot. I like it a lot. So do many of the engineers at work.
[02:46:28] <Tom_itx> i'm considering taking the catia class here
[02:46:34] <Tom_itx> i'll try it there if anything
[02:47:11] <Tom_itx> i know a guy that had an old spaceball he used with acad
[02:47:24] <Tom_itx> it ended up collecting dust too
[02:49:10] <Tom_itx> if i were gonna do it every day i'd probably look into something like it
[02:49:26] <Tom_itx> definitely try before buy though
[02:49:30] <zeeshan> the problem that i found wit hthe spaceball is
[02:49:36] <zeeshan> really what im used to
[02:49:43] <zeeshan> i use a-z for all my shortcuts
[02:50:03] <zeeshan> and arrow keys rolling the model in 90 degree increments
[02:50:25] <zeeshan> if i could find a mouse screen button that was smoother than the logitech g5
[02:50:36] <zeeshan> i'd be set!
[02:50:45] <Tom_itx> well right now all i have to try it on is my kid's surface pro3
[02:50:54] <Tom_itx> and i personally dislike them
[02:51:06] <zeeshan> thats not a fair test though :p
[02:51:10] <Tom_itx> i know
[02:51:17] <Tom_itx> but it does run pretty well on it
[02:51:20] <Tom_itx> catia that is
[02:51:22] <zeeshan> try it for a couple weeks
[02:51:27] <zeeshan> and form your own opinion
[02:51:29] <zeeshan> i think its worth a shot
[02:51:47] <Tom_itx> the surface is too small to do cad on imo
[02:51:57] <zeeshan> dude
[02:52:00] <zeeshan> i got a 24" monitor
[02:52:03] <zeeshan> and ive been looking for a 32"
[02:52:06] <Tom_itx> exactly
[02:52:10] <zeeshan> bu its TOO EXPENSIVE!!
[02:52:17] <zeeshan> i cant pay $699 for a monitor
[02:52:21] <zeeshan> i got this one for $70
[02:52:22] <zeeshan> :D
[02:52:23] <Tom_itx> sell your damn racecar :D
[02:52:30] <zeeshan> no, i have the money for it
[02:52:34] <zeeshan> but it is a waste
[02:52:37] <Tom_itx> no you dont
[02:52:45] <zeeshan> cause you know it'll drop value in 3 years
[02:52:46] <Tom_itx> you wanna pay off your house remember?
[02:52:57] <zeeshan> we redecided our plan
[02:52:59] <FinboySlick> Well, let's not poke too hard at the elephant in the room, but if you're running Catia, no monitor is too expensive.
[02:53:00] <zeeshan> not gonna kill ourself
[02:53:03] <zeeshan> 5 years instead of 2
[02:53:05] <Tom_itx> i know, everything drops in value over time
[02:53:36] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick, yeah it's $$$$$$$$
[02:53:45] <PetefromTn_> well I think I finally have my new scope rail design worked out and I am making the prototype right now ;)
[02:53:53] <Tom_itx> fortunately i got it free as a student copy
[02:54:13] <Tom_itx> but my bud gave about 75k for it
[02:54:22] <FinboySlick> What do they charge for it nowadays? Half of my Catia experience was on Sun workstations.
[02:54:33] <Tom_itx> his was on a sun workstation too
[02:54:47] <Tom_itx> i dunno what it runs since they ported it to windows
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[02:55:25] <Tom_itx> but everybody around here uses it
[02:55:42] <FinboySlick> Well, I had a 'student' copy of p5 around the same time. Back then it was humongous at around 3GB, it must be like 2TB of DLLs nowadays.
[02:56:00] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: 25k
[02:56:20] <FinboySlick> Well, considering who uses it, it's not that bad.
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[02:57:55] <Tom_itx> yeah
[02:58:18] <zeeshan> man then kitten
[02:58:24] <zeeshan> |
[02:58:29] <zeeshan> all over my keyboard
[02:59:18] <FinboySlick> Kitten on keyboard, I can understand. But why was there a man first?
[02:59:28] <zeeshan> :D
[03:01:02] <FinboySlick> With all the new stuff happening in OpenGL nowadays, wouldn't it be possible to write a much more streamlined lib than OpenCASCADE? Seems to be the only featurful CAD backend in the open source world.
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[03:02:32] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick, have you used SW?
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[03:02:49] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: SolidWorks? Of course. I'm quite good at it actually.
[03:03:05] <Tom_itx> just wondered your opinion between the two
[03:03:26] <Tom_itx> not knowing alot about catia i think sw is simpler to use
[03:03:31] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: I Challenge you to a duel
[03:03:35] <Tom_itx> pfft
[03:03:49] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i dojnt play video games
[03:03:55] <zeeshan> i need some entertainment
[03:03:59] <Tom_itx> heh
[03:04:01] <Tom_itx> i don't either
[03:04:12] <Tom_itx> you're pretty intertaining
[03:04:14] <zeeshan> and at work im doing stress calculations
[03:04:20] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: I'd have to boot into Windows :(
[03:04:21] <zeeshan> so my life is not being challenged
[03:04:33] <zeeshan> maybe i will get gta5
[03:04:44] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: i was kidding :P
[03:04:45] <CaptHindsight> I'd say that SW is easier to use than Catia, but Catia has more stuff
[03:04:53] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: O RLY
[03:04:56] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, i agree
[03:04:56] <zeeshan> tell us what stuff it has
[03:05:03] <Tom_itx> it handles large assemblies better
[03:05:07] <CaptHindsight> NX has morer stuff or mostist
[03:05:12] <zeeshan> like
[03:05:17] <zeeshan> examples
[03:06:01] <CaptHindsight> and don't forget Creo :)
[03:06:10] <Tom_itx> catia won't let you draw multiple items on a sketch and extrude them independently
[03:06:29] <Tom_itx> that's one thing i like about SW
[03:06:42] <CaptHindsight> ID people tend to like Creo for its surface features
[03:07:05] <Tom_itx> i haven't gotten into surfaces with either one yet
[03:08:10] <FinboySlick> SW is no slouch with surfaces either, especially the later versions.
[03:08:23] <CaptHindsight> I get better at SW than the others but I make myself use NX as often as I can now
[03:08:58] <CaptHindsight> now I look for features in SW that aren't there
[03:09:17] <humble_sea_bass> Features waiting in the wings
[03:09:33] <humble_sea_bass> SW is priced so you can impulse upgrade every few years
[03:10:20] <CaptHindsight> I never used autocad much, I tend to import them into other applications
[03:10:37] <CaptHindsight> I did play with Inventor
[03:10:43] <Tom_itx> i never cared for acad
[03:10:47] <humble_sea_bass> Autocad is just 2d, anything beyond that is hacked in and bad
[03:11:16] <Tom_itx> i knew a guy that was pretty good with it
[03:11:19] <Tom_itx> 3d
[03:11:31] <humble_sea_bass> and with the Acad clones, many which are free, there is no need for it
[03:11:32] <Tom_itx> used ncpolaris to export the gcode
[03:12:07] <CaptHindsight> my beef was always trying to export some model into a photorealistic render program
[03:12:29] * zeeshan freeforms all the time in sw
[03:12:34] <humble_sea_bass> Tom_itx: getting good at 3d with ACAD is tantamount to learning to play concertos with rubber bands. possible but why
[03:12:53] <FinboySlick> It's been a little while since I played with Inventor, but anytime you tried to push it a bit beyond its comfort zone, it became infuriatingly unstable or just did something unexpected.
[03:12:55] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: you havent mentioned one feature
[03:12:57] <zeeshan> that is missing! :P
[03:13:22] <CaptHindsight> from SW that's in NX?
[03:13:27] <humble_sea_bass> did they ever implement nurbs
[03:13:29] <zeeshan> yes capt
[03:13:34] <FinboySlick> Autodesk products, as far as I can remember always seemed to keep just enough bugs to keep you hoping the next upgrade would be better.
[03:13:35] <zeeshan> other than cam
[03:13:52] <zeeshan> autodesk products
[03:13:58] <zeeshan> are prolly the #1 drafting products
[03:13:59] <zeeshan> in the world
[03:14:07] <zeeshan> solidworks drafting doesn't even come close
[03:14:18] <humble_sea_bass> FinboySlick: nothing has changed. Autocad 2013 is kind of the gold standard, REVIT is a hot piece of flaming thrash
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[03:15:02] <humble_sea_bass> I like Draftsight. it is an ACAD clone from 3dSystemmes
[03:15:16] <zeeshan> i use both inventor and solidworks daily
[03:15:22] <zeeshan> and theres a few features missing from one or another
[03:15:24] <zeeshan> but nothing major
[03:15:39] <zeeshan> i think modern cad systems have gotten a lot better since 2006
[03:15:44] <zeeshan> you can do a lot more now
[03:15:48] <CaptHindsight> and the 80's
[03:15:54] <FinboySlick> Inventor might have made a lot of progress but it was always pretty toy-like to me.
[03:16:02] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: its very powerful
[03:16:30] <zeeshan> its worth learning if you're going to use it in the field
[03:16:45] <zeeshan> it won't dissapoint like freecad :D
[03:16:57] <CaptHindsight> I probably have Autocad for dos from ~85 somewhere
[03:17:21] <zeeshan> i have people at work whove been using inventor for 5 years
[03:17:37] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Well, it's been a few years since I played with it, it's very likely better now. Back then though, it was meant to be easy.
[03:17:48] <zeeshan> and they dont know the f7 option
[03:17:49] <CaptHindsight> I think i had a version for the Mac512
[03:17:49] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, i finally tossed my floppies
[03:17:52] <zeeshan> to slice graphics
[03:18:04] <zeeshan> when doing complex sketches that go through a solid body
[03:18:16] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: a decade or so ago I backed em all onto hard drives
[03:18:35] <Tom_itx> yeah but rll isn't supported now :)
[03:19:03] <Tom_itx> i got a pile in the drawer too
[03:19:13] <Tom_itx> and dat tapes
[03:19:18] <zeeshan> its something solidworks lacks btw
[03:19:22] <zeeshan> you gotta manually section the view
[03:19:26] <CaptHindsight> I check the back pages of Computer Shopper for old HD deals :)
[03:19:26] <zeeshan> before doing the sketch
[03:20:10] <Tom_itx> i need to put the 'normal to' button on my top bar
[03:20:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.computershopper.com/ it's not the same online :(
[03:21:02] <Tom_itx> nope
[03:21:13] <Tom_itx> no more door stops
[03:21:16] <zeeshan> you dont like the spacebar shortcut
[03:21:17] <zeeshan> to normal to?
[03:21:29] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, i'm still learning about it
[03:21:32] <CaptHindsight> and it always felt like a deal since it was as thick as a bible
[03:21:43] <zeeshan> alternative you can do
[03:21:45] <zeeshan> ctrl + 8
[03:21:50] <Tom_itx> replaced them with digikey and mouser door stops
[03:21:51] <zeeshan> ctrl 1- 8
[03:21:54] <zeeshan> plays with views
[03:21:58] <CaptHindsight> lol
[03:22:48] <CaptHindsight> pretty useless print catalogs since it's so much easier to search online
[03:23:06] <Tom_itx> i used both
[03:23:25] <Tom_itx> find a similar product then look on that page in the catalog for other brands
[03:23:36] <FinboySlick> B&H Photo is smaller but I think they crank one every 4 months.
[03:23:48] <Tom_itx> i always enjoyed brousing that one
[03:23:52] <FinboySlick> "Here's our fall catalog of the exact same shit that was in our previous catalog.
[03:24:00] <Tom_itx> yup
[03:24:30] <CaptHindsight> ever been to the B&H store in Manhattan? not really that big
[03:24:39] <Tom_itx> nope
[03:24:59] <FinboySlick> Only place I've been in Manhattan was the bus stop on my way to PA.
[03:25:35] <FinboySlick> For a kid from rural Quebec... It was pretty impressive.
[03:26:13] <FinboySlick> Is it just me or does NY City have a 'vibration' of sorts? I mean it *feels* like NY City. I'm not sure how to describe it.
[03:26:31] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I used to go just for that
[03:26:56] <CaptHindsight> lots of creative types and things to do
[03:28:22] <CaptHindsight> Tokyo is another
[03:28:43] <CaptHindsight> never a dull moment
[03:32:10] <Jymmm> like the scum crawling on your skin?
[03:33:45] <fenn> http://youtu.be/s5-30NKSwo8 "what makes paris look like paris"
[03:33:56] <CaptHindsight> I miss the NYC filth of the pre-00's
[03:34:18] <fenn> go to harbin
[03:34:22] <fenn> plenty of filth
[03:34:23] <CaptHindsight> feels to much like a suburban mall now
[03:34:26] <Jymmm> No vintage filth for you!
[03:36:14] <Jymmm> Is $26 for a 7" tablet worth it?
[03:37:17] <jdh> I have bought several tablets, cheap and not. Never found a good use for one.
[03:37:40] <Jymmm> I was thinking wall mounted control
[03:38:07] <Jymmm> like weather station, or remote camera, or streaming music
[03:39:51] <Valen> Jymmm: link?
[03:39:58] <Jymmm> Wow, not worth $26 even http://www.amazon.com/Maylong-Mobility-Tablet-Google-Android/dp/B00H95O0I2#customerReviews
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[03:42:36] <Jymmm> Valen: frys promo code
[03:43:04] <Jymmm> no cameras
[03:43:28] <Jymmm> wait, maybe a camera
[03:44:27] <Jymmm> Valen: http://www.frys.com/product/8610570
[03:45:48] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: did you ever try loading/unloading a test coupon of polymer
[03:47:45] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: ?
[03:47:58] <zeeshan> ?!?!
[03:47:59] <zeeshan> :D
[03:48:08] <Jymmm> Mom?
[03:53:16] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: duhnno what you mean
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[03:55:39] <zeeshan> nm
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[03:57:14] * Tom_itx dusts zeeshan's lathe off a bit...
[03:57:51] <zeeshan> haha low blow!
[04:05:02] <Tom_itx> what _have_ you done on it lately?
[04:07:15] <zeeshan> nothing
[04:07:17] <zeeshan> been working on the car
[04:07:30] <zeeshan> working off a japanese manual
[04:07:33] <zeeshan> so taking very long :P
[04:07:41] <zeeshan> prolly will be until end of jan till i get it done
[04:07:57] <zeeshan> looking forward to the lathe
[04:08:01] <zeeshan> will be interesting
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[04:09:36] <zeeshan> what have you been upto other than learning cad :D
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[04:14:18] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Oh, you still awake?
[04:14:28] <Tom_itx> just curious really...
[04:14:34] <Tom_itx> nothing but work and cad
[04:15:06] <FinboySlick> http://www.magnomatics.com/pages/technology/low-ratio-magnetic-gears.htm <--- Won't that destroy the magnets?
[04:23:33] <zeeshan> round and round they go
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[04:33:24] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: what surprises me is the efficiency they state
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[04:33:44] <CaptHindsight> have to be pricey
[04:34:02] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Yeah. I'm curious to hear what andy would have to say about it, sounds like his cup'o'tea.
[04:34:24] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: They have a job opening... Sounds like a 3 man shop :P
[04:34:53] <CaptHindsight> but the average induction motors are in the 80's to high 90's for efficiency
[04:36:26] <CaptHindsight> I'd expect higher coupling losses
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[04:37:35] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: they look like a new tech co trying to look legit
[04:38:25] <CaptHindsight> invest in us
[04:38:49] <FinboySlick> Yeah. I think it's interesting though. Especially the electric motor to cvt scenario.
[04:39:02] <PetefromTn_> maybe I need a site like that ;)
[04:39:21] <CaptHindsight> with an advisory board
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[04:40:01] <CaptHindsight> with at least 4 poobahs, and vice-poobah and a grand-poobah
[04:40:36] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: I'd be happy to design the official hats worn by the board as well
[04:41:26] <PetefromTn_> you really think I am a joke here huh sheesh
[04:41:43] <CaptHindsight> nah, just in good mood
[04:41:52] <PetefromTn_> I can't win for tryin :P
[04:43:02] <CaptHindsight> websites with all those sections for board members, advisers, team leaders etc come across like they are trying to hard and have no sales
[04:44:00] <CaptHindsight> it looks good to investors without tech knowledge
[04:44:30] <PetefromTn_> sometimes that is all that matters...most investors could not build a company or business if they tried LOL
[04:44:57] <zeeshan> the idea looks valid
[04:45:02] <zeeshan> looks like a good investment
[04:45:14] <CaptHindsight> I'd like to see pricing
[04:45:22] <zeeshan> prolly expensive
[04:45:25] <zeeshan> but if you see the construction
[04:45:29] <zeeshan> its very similar to amotor
[04:45:43] <zeeshan> so its prolly cheap once they get kicking
[04:46:05] <CaptHindsight> and offshore the core parts to China
[04:46:52] <zeeshan> Please forward your CV together with covering letter to: Bernadette Thackery, PA to the CEO, by email at: b.thackery@magnomatics.com or by post to:
[04:46:55] <zeeshan> youre 100% right capt
[04:47:09] <zeeshan> when your resume for a Product Development Apprentice (Test)
[04:47:12] <zeeshan> goes directly to the CEO
[04:47:18] <zeeshan> its a show for investors :)
[04:47:30] <zeeshan> good catch
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[04:55:51] <PetefromTn_> Gn8
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[05:01:54] <fenn> seems like one could change the gear ratio without moving any of the rotating parts by sliding the stator axially to a different setting, changing the number of poles in the stator
[05:02:10] <fenn> no need for CVT if you can quickly switch gears on the fly like that
[05:02:31] <fenn> also it looks really easy to build
[05:11:48] <Jymmm> Or... Just turn the dial
[05:11:59] <CaptHindsight> https://www.dextermag.com/products/magnetic-assemblies/magnetic-couplings
[05:12:30] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: thats crazy talk right there!
[05:14:43] <CaptHindsight> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=1433001&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D1433001
[05:15:27] <CaptHindsight> Without the losses of magnetic origin in the bearings and less end-effects caused by relatively short stack, an impressive efficiency estimated at 96% can be obtained.
[05:16:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Edward_Furlani/publication/3099853_A_two-dimensional_analysis_for_the_coupling_of_magnetic_gears/links/00b7d53527f34933b8000000.pdf
[05:24:23] <CaptHindsight> https://www.google.com/patents/US5569967 Magnetic gear and gear train configuration
[05:24:58] <CaptHindsight> some older patents for magnetic coupled gears go back to the 50's
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[05:55:41] <archivist> spot the tyop Magnetic gears can achieved with efficiency >99% at full load
[06:05:20] <archivist> if they dont proof read their website, does that mean they dont test the claims too :)
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[06:51:57] <trentster> howdy all
[06:53:31] <trentster> The table my cnc machine is currently on, although quite sturdy shudders violently during fast moves (accel
[06:54:40] <trentster> I need some advice if I should build a sturdy workbench for it out of 2 by fours with side support, or should I be looking for a used steel welding table etc?
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[06:55:01] <trentster> I know the best bet would be to weld up a dedicated table, but I dont know how to weld.
[06:55:05] <trentster> Advice?
[06:56:29] <mrsun__> my thought is use what you can get hold of or build =)
[06:57:09] <mrsun__> i have the same problem but its my floor in the shop that moves with the accelerations and stops of the machine :P
[06:57:22] <trentster> hmmm - its a pain.
[06:58:06] <trentster> I am still struggling to visualize how the base movements would effect the cuts - which still seem fine even with the shuddering
[06:58:07] <mrsun__> been thinking of casting a concrete slab on the floor to anchor the machine on just to give it a huge mass that it cant move :P
[06:58:17] <archivist> add 45 degree strengthening to the legs
[06:59:52] <trentster> archivist: yeah I thought about that - but I can not come up with a solution that works, the current table has pretty thick round steel pillars about 4 inches in diameter
[06:59:58] <archivist> a standard table has no shear members
[07:00:07] <trentster> Would have to devise some type of clamping system to do that
[07:00:29] <archivist> drill through, threaded rod
[07:01:01] <archivist> or attach brackets and threaded rod
[07:01:26] <mrsun__> you realy like your threaded rods :P
[07:01:30] <trentster> this table is actually steel frame on the top and each leg pillar screws into the frame
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[07:01:56] <trentster> so its pretty solid, I reckon if i stabilise the legs will be good.
[07:02:20] <trentster> archivist: what about movement between each lond side span
[07:02:24] <trentster> *long
[07:02:38] <trentster> also threaded rod under tension?
[07:02:52] <archivist> I add shear members in wood to wooden tables!
[07:03:42] <trentster> I have a lot of 10 series spare aluminium extrusion, pretty long pieces, I could probably use that somehow
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[07:06:43] <trentster> archivist: On my VFD, when I am manually controlling it via the panel fwd turns the spindle counter clockwise and rev turns it clockwise
[07:07:10] <trentster> This is incorrect right? do you think I could have a pin the wrong way round?
[07:07:55] <archivist> just swap two of the three wires to the motor
[07:09:02] <trentster> you sure it can't damage it?
[07:09:19] <trentster> if I randomly swap 2 of them around?
[07:10:17] <mrsun__> just dont swap it with the earth wire :P
[07:10:38] <mrsun__> a three phase motor you just swap two phases to make it turn the other way
[07:10:42] <trentster> mrsun__: heh yeah - I know enough to leave the earth alone ;-)
[07:10:53] <mrsun__> :P
[07:10:54] <trentster> cool thanks
[07:11:39] <mrsun__> never know so better say it before something ba dhappends :P
[07:12:11] <trentster> yes, I dont like magic smoke :P
[07:12:30] <mrsun__> a motor contains alot of magic smoke, so does wires
[07:12:53] <trentster> yup, hopefully its potential magic smoke, never to be relized
[07:13:00] <trentster> *realised
[07:13:07] <archivist> I had to empty a fire extinguisher on one motor :)
[07:13:21] <trentster> wow!
[07:13:31] <trentster> you must be using big machinery
[07:13:51] <trentster> *mental not to self - get a fire extinguisher for garage/shop
[07:14:09] <archivist> motors are one of the most reliable machines made, just need to replace the bearings now and again
[07:14:51] <archivist> was a little 1/2 hp 3 phase iirc, about 40 years ago
[07:15:23] <mrsun__> doctor ?
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[07:44:48] <Deejay> moin
[07:45:03] <CaptHindsight> was just playing with some *duino motion control on Windows, I feel like it belongs to a 8th grade science fair project
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[07:56:20] <enleth> trentster: do you have a CO2 welding tank?
[07:56:39] <trentster> enleth: nope I wish
[07:56:54] <trentster> I dont know how to weld, but would love to learn one day
[07:57:37] <trentster> CaptHindsight: what did you find the arduino shortfalls to be?
[07:57:48] <enleth> trentster: well if you had more than one of those, keeping a fire extinguisher valve hose on one of them at all times is a good idea. That's just a CO2 extinguisher then.
[07:57:56] <archivist> all of the possible shortfalls
[07:57:56] <enleth> *vavle and hose
[07:59:33] <trentster> archivist: CaptHindsight I guess the real question is where did it fall short in expectations ie: what did the $4 piece of kit fail to deliver in terms of expectations :P
[07:59:46] <enleth> not certified, so keeping a dry chemical one too is good if someone decides to send OHSA your way, but in case anything starts dispensing the magic smoke, you'd use the CO2 tank first to avoid the mess
[08:00:14] <archivist> powder is really messy :)
[08:00:53] <archivist> effin hard work cleaning a black car interior after one has been used
[08:01:20] <enleth> or - if you can afford it - get a FE-36 extinguisher
[08:01:50] <trentster> so bucket of water under the table on standby is a no no then ? P
[08:01:51] <enleth> that's the modern replacement for halon 1211
[08:02:07] <enleth> trentster: bucket of sand would be more like it
[08:02:24] <enleth> will work, most of the time
[08:02:55] <enleth> but getting sand into the machinery is probably even worse than the dry chemical extinguisher powder
[08:03:11] <enleth> at least the powder is not abrasive
[08:03:19] <trentster> he he yup.
[08:03:36] <enleth> but a bucket of sand by the welding table is OK
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[08:04:07] <enleth> you can always drop something small that is ablaze into the bucket and push it under the sand with a stick
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[08:07:52] <trentster> The most likely thing I will encounter is a fire in the plywood router bed itself.
[08:08:03] <trentster> since I dont weld anything
[08:10:33] <enleth> trentster: so you really want at least a CO2 extinguisher, and ideally an FE-36 one
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[08:11:27] <enleth> trentster: the latter is expensive, but it doesn't try to cool everything to -71C, freezing, twisting and shattering it in the process
[08:11:33] <fenn> baking soda is also a cheap substitute for a dry chemical extinguisher
[08:12:26] <enleth> trentster: they use FE-36 extinguishers with laser equipment, where a stream of expanding CO2 getting in contact with the huge, hot glass laser tube would shatter it instantly
[08:12:28] <Crom> some extinguishers use baking soda for media
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[08:14:57] <trentster> Halon suppression system and a gas mask will also work (if I get to the mask in time) ;-)
[08:15:16] <fenn> it's the lack of oxygen that kills you
[08:15:25] <fenn> so you need something like scba
[08:15:40] <trentster> scuba gear
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[08:16:52] <enleth> fenn: in the case of halon, it's not just the lack of oxygen
[08:17:08] <fenn> once a lady locked herself in a bank vault on accident, so she started pressing buttons. one of them was the halon system...
[08:17:45] <enleth> fenn: too much of it will interfere with the oxidation processes in the body on a chemical level
[08:17:59] <archivist> she dead
[08:19:14] <enleth> archivist: well, in data centers that use halon fire suppression systems, you are usually required to take an oxygen mask with you whenever you enter the server floor, and that's both for supplying oxygen *and* keeping halon out of your lungs
[08:20:40] <enleth> and still, if you hear the fire alarm, you drop anything you were doing no matter how important and just run for the door, those systems usually have something like 10-15 second delay to accomodate idiots who failed to take a mask with them
[08:21:12] <archivist> which reminds me of stupid ISP, waiting for an IP change at some random time today
[08:21:12] <enleth> so yeah, she dead for sure
[08:23:02] <trentster> its also damn expensive to refill and reset halon suppression system after its been activated - $35-60K at least thats according to the datacenter where we have our racks.
[08:23:41] <trentster> Got a huge lecture when we did the induction tour where they stressed dont push the Halon accidentally unless you are 100% sure the server room is burning down
[08:24:34] <trentster> enleth: Sounds like a script from a super hero movie - She got stuck in a vault, and later emerged as "Halon Woman" with super-powers ;-)
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[08:30:55] <fenn> the ability to stay still for extended periods
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[08:49:29] <trentster> haha
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[10:23:26] <XXCoder> enleth: BOFH lol
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[10:23:50] <archivist> other self timed out, IP address change.......
[10:28:42] <XXCoder> aw not twins anymore
[10:34:55] <archivist> other bos is responding to pings
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[10:36:33] <XXCoder> yay twins again lol
[10:37:42] <archivist> and the box is serving the website already
[10:38:37] <archivist> just have one DNS server yo go and kick into submission
[10:38:42] <archivist> to go
[10:40:21] <enleth> XXCoder: what
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[10:40:46] <XXCoder> google BOFH heh
[10:40:54] <XXCoder> first few results
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[10:55:00] <XXCoder> catching up on BOFH. bhavent read it for long while lol
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[11:08:31] <SpeedEvil> http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1328044
[11:08:31] <SpeedEvil> ansion in terms of the phase shift per unit cavity length of the individual interferometers. Measurements of the coefficients of thermal expansion of a specific type of rolled steel yielded values of 12.7 x 10-6 °C-1 and 7.5 x 10-6 °C-1 in the axial and the transverse direction respectively.
[11:08:33] <SpeedEvil> Fun
[11:08:38] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't know it was that bad
[11:10:51] <SpeedEvil> Now I want to make an all-steel bimetallic thermostat.
[11:11:09] <XXCoder> steel-steel bimetallic? lol
[11:11:28] <SpeedEvil> cut out of the same bit of sheet at right angles
[11:11:45] <XXCoder> so grain direction matters?
[11:11:55] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[11:12:01] <XXCoder> interesting
[11:13:17] <XXCoder> how much would it change?
[11:13:45] <SpeedEvil> I don't know what the pre-rollng expansion was, nor the alloy above (I'm not spending $18)
[11:13:58] <SpeedEvil> but - nearly double in one axis is bad.
[11:14:02] <XXCoder> can use plastic for more "stiff" side?
[11:14:10] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[11:14:22] <SpeedEvil> 7.5ppm - 12.7ppm = 5ppm or so.
[11:14:34] <SpeedEvil> 5ppm*100C = 1/2000th
[11:15:53] <SpeedEvil> I think that means it curves round a circle 6000 times the plate thickness.
[11:17:48] <SpeedEvil> So for 1mm, and a meter length, one side is .5mm longer at 100C.
[11:17:55] <SpeedEvil> that's quite a tight circle
[11:18:46] <XXCoder> wow
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[11:19:07] <XXCoder> so smaller difference of lengths, the longer it has to be to be useful?
[11:19:32] <Deejay> grumbl @ freenode
[11:19:50] <SpeedEvil> ah - if it's 2mm thick, and forming a whole circle, and .5% shorter, then that's 6mm change in distance for a 2mm width.
[11:20:35] <SpeedEvil> unless I'm confused, which is frequently, I think a 1m length of 1mm thick rolled plate, two pieces, glued to itself at right angles will bend into around a complete circle
[11:20:55] <SpeedEvil> (at 100C)
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[11:49:03] <_methods> SpeedEvil: are you trying to calculate elongation on a rolled piece of sheet steel?
[11:49:28] <SpeedEvil> I was surprised at its amount
[11:49:47] <SpeedEvil> I was computing latterly the bending of a bimetallic steel/steel strip
[11:50:11] <_methods> usually when you roll sheet you don't factor in "stretch"
[11:50:27] <_methods> pi*D usually gives you a pretty accurate blank size
[11:50:43] <_methods> bending on the other hand needs to be calculated
[11:50:47] <SpeedEvil> No, not for rolling.
[11:50:53] <SpeedEvil> Take some existing rolled steel sheet.
[11:51:04] <SpeedEvil> Cut two 1m*1cm strips at right angles.
[11:51:07] <SpeedEvil> Glue together.
[11:51:27] <SpeedEvil> Now, they will completely form a circle at 100C above (or below) the temperature at which you glued them
[11:51:55] <_methods> i guess i don't understand what you're talking about
[11:52:06] <_methods> i thought you were talking about using a slip roll
[11:52:12] <_methods> or pinch roll
[11:52:26] <SpeedEvil> Rolled sheet (or at least the above mentioned one) expands by twice as much in one direction than the other
[11:53:30] <SpeedEvil> (per degree C )
[11:53:37] <Sync> maybe zeeshan can put some insight in this
[11:54:29] <_methods> sheet products have a grain direction and they will bend/stretch more depending on the grain
[11:54:32] <SpeedEvil> I assume this would be cold-rolled
[11:55:34] <_methods> and most sheet products are hot rolled
[11:56:32] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[11:57:01] <SpeedEvil> That reminds me.
[11:57:10] <SpeedEvil> I need to get the block of puff-pastry out of the fridge.
[11:57:14] <SpeedEvil> Puff-pastry is awesome
[11:57:30] <_methods> makes great pie crust hehe
[11:58:55] <SpeedEvil> Also a great example of material anisotropy
[11:59:19] <_methods> puff pastry?
[12:00:03] <SpeedEvil> It is made of very thin layers of pastry and release agent
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[12:25:28] <jthornton> yea the sun will come out today
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[12:30:08] <Tom_itx> damn pipe broke last night
[12:30:17] <Tom_itx> pinhole in a copper 90
[12:30:41] <Tom_itx> never seen that before... not at the solder
[12:30:50] <zeeshan> dont have that problem with hot rolled cause they're not anisotropic
[12:31:03] <XXCoder> just use lead Tom_itx ;)
[12:31:04] <XXCoder> JK
[12:31:05] <zeeshan> cold rolled you see it :/
[12:31:32] <Tom_itx> not on the straight parts, the fitting
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[12:32:36] <Tom_itx> shut the water off.. will fix tonight
[12:32:55] <XXCoder> a flaw?
[12:33:02] <XXCoder> because I dont see a way hole would appear
[12:33:19] <Tom_itx> apparently
[12:33:38] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: nice :p
[12:33:53] <zeeshan> did you forget to shut your exterior water taps??!
[12:33:54] <Tom_itx> good i was home to see it
[12:34:55] <_methods> water wore a hole in the elbow?
[12:35:12] <Tom_itx> that's what it looks like
[12:35:33] <_methods> wild
[12:35:36] <skunkworks> abrasive water...
[12:35:37] <_methods> how old is your house?
[12:35:43] <Tom_itx> first for me for sure
[12:35:55] <_methods> chinese copper lol
[12:36:15] <Tom_itx> i replumbed it before we started heavily importing from china
[12:36:24] <gonzo_> afternoon peeps
[12:36:28] <XXCoder> _methods: probably 75% lead :P
[12:36:28] <_methods> damn even worse american copper
[12:36:33] <_methods> hahah
[12:36:34] <XXCoder> night all
[12:36:36] <gonzo_> any stepper guru's here?
[12:36:36] <Tom_itx> heh
[12:36:47] <jthornton> heh
[12:37:19] <Tom_itx> i left paper and said use the back yard :D
[12:37:22] <Tom_itx> jk...
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[12:38:38] <_methods> gonzo_: just ask away
[12:38:46] <_methods> someone will try to answer i'm sure
[12:39:13] <gonzo_> ok, here goes: 8 wire motors, can be series or parallel config. will both give the same low speed torque, if I keep the same current per winding
[12:40:10] <_methods> hmmm
[12:40:18] <_methods> i'm not sure on that one
[12:40:40] <gonzo_> all the info I camn find assume that you are keeing the overall current the same in both configs
[12:41:00] <_methods> http://www.parkermotion.com/dmxreadyv2/faqsmanager/faqsmanager.asp?question=202
[12:41:09] <gonzo_> I know that pll is lower L, so should giver better speed
[12:42:04] <zeeshan> bah i want to work
[12:42:08] <zeeshan> but got the stomach bug ;[
[12:42:15] <zeeshan> what did i EAT!!
[12:43:21] <ReadError> man so all the sites the sell BLDC servos, rarely list the prices ;(
[12:43:23] <gonzo_> _methods, That seems to assume a non current limit drive and again, that the drive current is the same for both configs
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[12:44:08] <zeeshan> ReadError: i think they assume "more than you can afford pal!"
[12:44:12] <zeeshan> actually its not that
[12:44:13] <_methods> well if you're worried about low speed torque i don't think it matters
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[12:44:17] <zeeshan> its so their competitors dont know
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[12:44:25] <zeeshan> cause they will quote a ridiculus amount
[12:44:28] <_methods> since parallel will only improve torque at higher speeds i think
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[12:44:37] <gonzo_> in my case, I have a currnet limit driver and it is able to supply the max I for both halves of the windiong, when in parallel
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[12:45:14] <_methods> i don't know if one gives a torque advantage over the other at low speeds
[12:47:15] <gonzo_> all the examples seem to say that pll has half the low speed torque of series. But that is because the current is shared between the windings. In my case I can easilly double the current. Bringing the amps x turns ratio back up
[12:47:36] <gonzo_> so I would assume I get the same low speed torcue
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[12:48:13] <gonzo_> then having lower L in pll config I have less back emf to fight at speed, so I can get a higher speed
[12:48:20] <ReadError> zeeshan yea
[12:48:31] <ReadError> feel like, if I have to inquire about the price
[12:48:31] <gonzo_> (torque at speed is not an issue, as I won't be cutting)
[12:48:43] <ReadError> its either expensive or they only want to sell me 100 or more
[12:49:50] <ReadError> http://www.linengineering.com/bldc-motors/BLDC16-NEMA17.aspx
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[12:50:08] <ReadError> ofc they dont have them listed in their store and searching for the part # yields nothing on google
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[12:50:32] <skunkworks> gonzo_, you might just have to test it both ways and see what works best for you.
[12:50:41] <zeeshan> ReadError: lin eng is serious business
[12:50:47] <_methods> ^^
[12:50:55] <zeeshan> we found a bunch of their steppers in a medical device
[12:51:14] <zeeshan> e-mailed them asking for spec sheet, they said they could not release it cause it was custom wound for a customer
[12:51:14] <zeeshan> :P
[12:51:21] <zeeshan> i gained respect for them
[12:51:32] <ReadError> heh
[12:51:38] <gonzo_> skunkworks, may have to. Was hoping to get passed that with a bit of theory
[12:51:43] <ReadError> i just want some nema17 sized ones with encoder
[12:51:53] <zeeshan> i have some
[12:51:54] <zeeshan> steppers..
[12:51:54] <ReadError> found some from china on ebay
[12:51:57] <zeeshan> w/ encoders
[12:52:02] <zeeshan> a lot of them
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[12:52:10] <zeeshan> they might be nema 23 though
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[12:52:26] <skunkworks> gonzo_, people seem to use this as the bible. https://www.geckodrive.com/gecko/images/cms_files/Step%20Motor%20Basics%20Guide.pdf
[12:53:40] <ReadError> zeeshan hall vs incremental encoding
[12:53:53] <ReadError> seems like hall would offer less feedback/precision?
[12:54:05] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/0YJM0JX.jpg
[12:54:08] <zeeshan> theyre on this pump thing
[12:54:25] <zeeshan> not sure what kind of encoder
[12:54:35] <zeeshan> ts a black disk with a bunch of slots in it
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[12:54:47] <zeeshan> prolly incremental
[12:55:26] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/JvGhcp0.jpg
[12:55:27] <zeeshan> better pic
[12:55:38] <zeeshan> the encoder is external
[12:56:27] <ReadError> really what I want is a drop in servo solution to retrofit a stepper
[12:56:42] <ReadError> I know gecko has drivers that can be controlled like that
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[12:56:52] <zeeshan> through step and dir
[12:56:52] <zeeshan> yea
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[12:59:52] <gonzo_> skunkworks, thanks, that looks to answer the questions. Ta
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[13:12:28] <fenn> it's not like it's hard to measure the relevant parameters of a stepper motor, the secrecy is just an inconvenience
[13:26:02] <renesis> heh, max coil temp might be hard to characterize non destructively
[13:26:17] <renesis> maybe if you have a good nose
[13:36:05] <archivist_herron> I dont think I have seen any non manufacturer measure steppers properly
[13:38:04] <archivist_herron> one needs a torque meter / brake test set etc
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[13:51:37] <gonzo_> well I certainly had to 'nose' a nema17 motor recentlky. Was doing a test and only had drives that were far too big for the motors
[13:51:48] <gonzo_> (the motors were disposable!)
[13:52:24] <gonzo_> had it stuck down to a plate with a gob of grease and a fan blowing. it still stunk
[13:56:42] <jthornton> finally figured out a way to download the service pack files for SW so I can update
[13:59:56] <_methods> must be horrible having limited bandwidth
[14:00:11] <_methods> i don't know what i'd do
[14:07:26] <jthornton> yea, it is a pia... at least now since I changed plans it's unlimited from 3am to 8am and I'm usually up at 5am so I do all my u/d during that time
[14:12:49] <_methods> how much do they charge you a month?
[14:13:03] <_methods> can you upgrade your bandwidth?
[14:13:53] <JT-Shop> it was $60 now it's $50
[14:14:19] <_methods> they don't have a higher bandwidth plan?
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[14:15:33] <JT-Shop> yea for higher price
[14:15:59] <_methods> not worth it?
[14:16:17] <JT-Shop> this one is the only one with free zone
[14:16:43] <_methods> man that's brutal
[14:16:46] <JT-Shop> not really next is 12GB $80
[14:16:56] <JT-Shop> 18GB $110
[14:16:59] <_methods> ouch
[14:17:05] <_methods> so you get 10gb for $50
[14:17:05] <JT-Shop> 30GB $160
[14:17:23] <JT-Shop> and all I can use between 3am and 8am
[14:17:35] <_methods> can you get a 2nd modem and account
[14:17:44] <_methods> then you would get 20gb for $100
[14:17:44] <JT-Shop> the metered time now is outside the free time
[14:18:06] <_methods> and 2 free times
[14:18:08] <JT-Shop> I think this plan will work for me now
[14:18:35] <_methods> with a good router you could lagg the 2 connections and quota them
[14:19:51] <JT-Shop> sun is shining so time to start putting siding up
[14:20:14] <_methods> looks like you guys got the cold on you now
[14:23:05] <JT-Shop> low 30's at night and 50 during the day for the next few days here
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[14:32:59] <lair82> Good morning guys,
[14:33:38] <lair82> I am absolutley dumb founded with this new servo I am setting up for my rotary table,
[14:35:36] <lair82> I changed the whole config around, and set the new servo motor as my X linear axis, got the scaling set so one rev showed 1 inch of travel on the dro, and when I set it to g91 incremental, and give it a G00 X 1, it moved over 18 inches
[14:36:33] <cradek> instead of changing everything around, you need to do the methodical troubleshooting we recommended last time. can you go back to the archive and reread the previous suggestions?
[14:39:47] <lair82> cradek, I made a new config using Axis, and then I was able to confirm it was not a run away, I removed the servo from the rotary, and got it so 1 full rev of the motor showed 360 degrees of rotation on the dro,
[14:39:57] <lair82> I have gone over the wiring probably 5 times, everything is good there
[14:41:16] <cradek> right before you left you said if you had any P gain in your pid it ran away. is that still true?
[14:41:29] <lair82> Yes, it still takes off
[14:41:32] <archivist_herron> I have never seen a 1 to 1 ratio on a rotary
[14:41:48] <cradek> then something is very very wrong
[14:41:55] <cradek> stop and figure out what
[14:42:35] <cradek> you simply can't run it without P gain. if you have only FF you have *no* position control
[14:42:47] <archivist_herron> I expect something like 30-90 revs of the servo per rev of the rotary
[14:43:05] <lair82> I removed the motor from the rotary table, to take that guess work out of the equation
[14:43:11] <cradek> yes that's true but is not the immediate problem
[14:43:19] <cradek> brb
[14:43:43] <archivist_herron> I am wondering if he is setting the scale wildly wrong too
[14:44:56] <lair82> I keep getting told the same thing, scaling way off, but I don't know how it can be off if 1 revolution of the motor, shows 360 degrees or rotation on the screen
[14:45:37] <archivist_herron> you are forgetting the worm gear in the rotary
[14:45:44] <lair82> Or now the way I have it set up as linear, and 1 full rev equals 1 inch
[14:46:16] <lair82> I am not even dealing with the rotary any more, just the servo motor
[14:47:10] <lair82> I took the motor out of the rotary table, clamped it to the table, and put a pencil mark at theoretical "0" and have been going off of that mark since
[14:48:42] <pcw_home> For initial setup I would use P only (no FF1 no I no D)
[14:48:50] <archivist_herron> you will only have to tune again when you put it back on, why not work out the ratio, put it back on and do it properly
[14:49:54] <lair82> The reduction is either 1:180 or 1:360 based off of the document I have for the rotary, but I don't know what rpm the original servo was
[14:51:09] <lair82> pcw_home if I put any value in the P, it starts moving, if I put a 1 in the P, it probably takes off at about 1000 rpm's
[14:51:17] <pcw_home> to start you need to first get the rotary direction and scaling correct (DRO reads correctly)
[14:51:31] <lair82> guessing at the 1000 rpms
[14:51:52] <pcw_home> then you need to try with P only
[14:51:54] <pcw_home> if it runs away, you need to invert the analog out polarity
[14:51:54] <lair82> That is the whole problem, direction and scale is correct
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[14:52:50] <pcw_home> but if it runs away, you have the feedback reversed
[14:53:05] <lair82> I inverted the analog wires this morning just to make sure, and it took off as soon as I turned the power on, switched them back, and stable as can be
[14:53:43] <lair82> So, invert the wires and put a 1 in the P?
[14:54:01] <pcw_home> umm you cannot revers the analog wires un less the drive has differential inputs
[14:54:41] <pcw_home> does the drive have differential inputs? (something like AIN + and AIN-)
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[14:58:01] <lair82> http://postimg.org/image/msalmvnlx/ The left diagram is what I am working with
[14:59:11] <pcw_home> so single ended, you _cannot_ reverse these
[14:59:39] <lair82> http://postimg.org/image/w1crwzwhx/ and this is the feedback I am working with from the drive
[14:59:54] <pcw_home> you reverse the analog output in the hal file
[15:01:50] <lair82> So just put a negative symbol in front of the [AXIS_3]OUTPUT_SCALE in the INI?
[15:01:55] <pcw_home> so initial servo setup steps
[15:01:56] <pcw_home> 1. Get drive enable working
[15:01:58] <pcw_home> 2. get encoder scaled and in proper direction
[15:01:59] <pcw_home> 3. set a small amount of P only and check for proper feedback, if it runs away, change sign of analog out
[15:03:00] <pcw_home> yes inverting output scale should work
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[15:09:14] <lair82> Ok, heading back out there
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[15:30:41] <lair82> Ok, just re-wired the analog command so it is wired correctly, went over direction and scale, that is correct, looking at the shaft end of the servo clockwise rotation is counting in the positive direction on the dro, and I have the scale set at 27.7777 so 1 revolution of the servo motor is 360 degrees of rotation on the dro, and that checks out
[15:32:04] <lair82> But, when I enter any value in the P, with a 0 in the FF1, it takes off, so I inverted the OUTPUT_SCALE value, and it still takes off, just in the opposite direction
[15:34:20] <lair82> I talked to techs at Automation direct, and they said everything looked ok in regards to the parameters in the servo drive itself, which I have just the basic stuff set, in regards to velocity control using +/- 10v analog control
[15:34:22] <archivist_herron> he said invert the output, not invert the scale
[15:35:21] <lair82> I am not saying that something is not amiss in the drive, I am just not sure what it could be
[15:35:42] <archivist_herron> 27.7 sounds a very small scale
[15:36:07] <archivist_herron> still set for linear?
[15:36:32] <lair82> No I went back to the angular configuration,
[15:36:59] <archivist_herron> do you know the encoder lines/number
[15:37:20] <lair82> The drive is outputting 2500 ppr
[15:38:20] <pcw_home> so 27.77 is correct if you want 1 servo motor turn to be 360 degrees
[15:38:28] <lair82> I can, through the drive, scale the encoder signal to what ever is needed, but I left the scale alone, it is set at 1
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[15:38:37] <archivist_herron> I just calculated the same 27.7
[15:38:56] <pcw_home> (this will need to be multiplied by the rotary table gear ratio eventually)
[15:39:04] <lair82> Right, just for right now to get the major problem figured out, I am running the 27.777
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[15:40:46] <lair82> Conveniently enough, it will be either 5000 or 10000, 1:180> 180*27.7777=5000 1:360> 360*27.7777=10000
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[15:43:10] <pcw_home> it really makes no sense that it will runaway with both analog output polarities, can you post your hal/ini files somewhere?
[15:43:12] <pcw_home> I suspect the PID wiring is not correct (maybe feedback is not connected correctly)
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[15:49:55] <lair82> http://pastebin.com/vaydMcCk http://pastebin.com/1PaS7eYz Here are my files
[15:51:35] <cradek> net a-pos-fb => pid.a.feedback
[15:51:37] <cradek> net rotary-revs <= hm2_7i80.0.encoder.01.position
[15:51:42] <cradek> these aren't the same nets
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[15:53:47] <lair82> That would probably help
[15:53:59] <pcw_home> I think dgarrs single node net warnings would help here
[15:54:50] <cradek> I don't like these multi-line net commands that are the fad
[15:55:00] <cradek> net signal list-of-pins
[15:55:24] <cradek> the whole point of the net command is to make the net with one command
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[15:57:35] <pcw_home> I think they are of some limited use for organizing the hal file into logical sections
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[15:58:55] <archivist_herron> I can imagine naming a net you may want later, a warning is very sensible
[15:59:02] <lair82> Is that the only thing that sticks out?
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[16:04:18] <lair82> Everything else looked OK then? I will go change the connection, if that is the only one.
[16:05:03] <pcw_home> It certainly explains the symptoms
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[16:06:04] <lair82> But that is the only noticeable thing right now?
[16:06:41] <pcw_home> easier to debug one thing at a time...
[16:07:07] <lair82> Ok, I will go change that and see what I come up with
[16:10:07] <pcw_home> you may still need to change the output polarity since without feedback
[16:10:08] <pcw_home> the correct output polarity is still an unknown
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[16:23:56] <ssi> hm what should I buy at enco?
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[16:29:19] <lair82> Ok, I have control now of the servo, basic incremental moves from MDI, are giving favorable results, it is just very slow/sluggish
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[16:30:36] <pcw_home> ssi: a while ago you had a question about some undefined sserial commands, take a look at the 7I84 manual
[16:30:37] <pcw_home> I think I did not update all the manuals with the latest sserial info (7I77 is old for example)
[16:31:38] <ssi> pcw_home: I'll take a look, thanks
[16:32:07] <lair82> I found that if I go above 0.01 for the P value the servo gets very unstable, and eventually it shuts off
[16:39:29] <lair82> So in my INI Max_Velocity for the angular axis is degrees per second for the speed?
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[16:51:14] <pcw_home> Probably, I thing all velocities are in machine units per second
[16:51:21] <pcw_home> think
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[16:57:52] <lair82_> Yep, it is machine unit per second, so for right now, the motor is a 2000 rpm motor, 360 degrees per rev, 2000*360=720000, divide by 60 to turn into seconds, 720000/60=12000, MAX_VELOCITY = 12000 degrees per second
[17:01:18] <pcw_home> divided by the rotary table ratio... (and subtract about 20% for headroom)
[17:03:49] <lair82_> Is it because of the P value being so low, that it is still slow and sluggish?
[17:05:35] <pcw_home> That and no FF1 (or setup issues with the drive, input filters etc)
[17:06:11] <pcw_home> tuning a bare drive will be difficult as well
[17:06:29] <pcw_home> is this a 1 KHz servo thread?
[17:07:02] <lair82_> SERVO_PERIOD = 2500000
[17:07:27] <pcw_home> too slow
[17:07:40] <lair82_> The drive is not tuned at all, I reset all parameters to factory defaults yesterday
[17:08:16] <pcw_home> the drive may need tuning (and turning off any filtering)
[17:08:41] <pcw_home> I would use 1 KHz minimum for the servo thread
[17:09:10] <lair82_> If I put a 1 in the FF1, It makes it respond quickly, but as soon as I quit jogging it, it goes back to the position I started rom when jogging???
[17:09:20] <lair82_> rom>from
[17:09:32] <pcw_home> you need to tune FF1
[17:10:43] <pcw_home> but there is no point in tuning until you have the rotary table connected and scaling correct
[17:11:42] <lair82_> So set SERVO_PERIOD to 100000 ?
[17:12:02] <pcw_home> FF1=1 only makes sense if you normalize the output scaling (so analog out is scaled in degrees per second at the table)
[17:12:20] <lair82_> I get confused with the us, ms, khz
[17:12:33] <pcw_home> 1000000
[17:12:38] <lair82_> Ok
[17:13:22] <pcw_home> 1000000 = 1 million ns = 1 ms,
[17:13:24] <pcw_home> 1/1ms = 1000 Hz
[17:13:45] <lair82_> Ok, I will get the motor back in the rotary, should I tune the drive before i put it back in though?
[17:13:56] <lair82_> Aaaahhhh, I see now
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[18:51:53] <CaptHindsight> http://diylilcnc.org/bigshoulders/ mostly wooden cnc router
[18:52:17] <CaptHindsight> that is a lot of work to end up with this
[18:53:09] <archivist> ah the dreams
[18:53:16] <CaptHindsight> heh
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[18:55:20] <ssi> lol
[18:55:32] -!- RoyBellingan has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[18:55:36] <archivist> I just wish some of them looked at real hardware first
[18:56:04] <SpeedEvil> ...
[18:56:09] <ssi> I think I'm getting a cnc mill this weekend
[18:56:13] <ssi> I just gotta work out how to move it
[18:56:20] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Well, if you already have a laser cutter, I guess that makes it cheap.
[18:56:21] <zeeshan> another one?!
[18:56:26] <ssi> yeah
[18:56:32] <ssi> this one's ready to run
[18:56:34] <ssi> already converted
[18:56:36] <archivist> ask a forking forker to fork it over
[18:56:37] <ssi> and it's done properly
[18:56:41] <ssi> I know because I converted it :)
[18:57:02] <SpeedEvil> ssi: clamp a bar in the spindle, four casters, invert it, then pogo home.
[18:57:22] <ssi> SpeedEvil: that's right up there with buying four robot arms, bolting them together, and making them walk home :D
[18:57:30] <FinboySlick> ssi: You converted it just poorly enough that you'd know they'd sell it to you cheap afterward?
[18:57:39] <CaptHindsight> archivist: I came across it here http://www.element14.com/community/blogs/pdp7/2010/06/15/chicago-talks-diy-cnc-mill-circuit-bending
[18:57:41] <ssi> FinboySlick: haha no but that's a great idea
[18:57:51] <ssi> the company went under, I offered to buy it from them but they didn't sell it to me
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[18:57:56] <ssi> they stiffed an electrician $7500
[18:58:00] <ssi> and they gave him the mill instead
[18:58:03] <ssi> he has no clue what to do with it
[18:58:09] <ssi> so I'm buying it from him for $3500 :D
[18:58:33] <CaptHindsight> archivist: it's like actors playing doctors giving a presentation on medicine
[18:58:57] <_methods> damn score
[18:59:01] <ssi> yussss
[18:59:02] <FinboySlick> Oh, zeeshan is awake ;) I might have to bug you for your car repair skills ;)
[18:59:12] <archivist> it reminded me of origami
[18:59:16] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: i dont sleep
[18:59:21] <ssi> by the way
[18:59:22] <ssi> https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12308457_10100822022657512_8393941194162441089_n.jpg?oh=ae588309875ab704f73b30d0669994b7&oe=56DEA25A
[18:59:26] <ssi> :D
[18:59:38] <archivist> who wants an RX7 engine cheeeep
[18:59:58] <CaptHindsight> with free shipping? :)
[19:00:11] <zeeshan> nice ssi
[19:00:23] <zeeshan> we now know where ian lives
[19:00:26] <zeeshan> PARTY TIME
[19:00:28] <ssi> no you don't
[19:00:31] <ssi> you know where I used to live :)
[19:00:32] <FinboySlick> I wish it was engine stuff. But sadly it's the dreaded car electrical stuff.
[19:00:34] <zeeshan> :]
[19:00:39] <ssi> you can go burn my house down again
[19:00:40] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mazda-Rotary-Engine-12A-RX7-/321935362777
[19:00:42] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: whats wrong
[19:01:07] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: I *suspect* that I have something going to ground and draining my battery when the car is off.
[19:01:32] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: very easy to check if thats the case
[19:01:44] <zeeshan> set meter to 10A, disconnect ground
[19:01:47] <zeeshan> @ battery
[19:01:56] <archivist> batteries also fail that way
[19:02:05] <zeeshan> put meter in series with the disconnected ground cable
[19:02:08] <zeeshan> and - battery terminal
[19:02:14] <FinboySlick> archivist: Yeah, but not two in a row.
[19:02:17] <zeeshan> if you get more than 100mA reading
[19:02:18] <zeeshan> something is up
[19:02:33] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Exactly the kind of knowledge I was looking for :)
[19:02:53] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: You may even redeem yourself for putting a v6 in an rx7.
[19:02:58] <FinboySlick> But not quite yet.
[19:03:00] <zeeshan> v8
[19:03:01] <zeeshan> haha
[19:03:13] <FinboySlick> v8? Did you remove the back seat?
[19:03:26] <archivist> I would be wary of a 10A meter currents can be a lot higher
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[19:03:42] <ssi> archivist: meters are fused :)
[19:03:47] <FinboySlick> archivist: I'll check with a clamp first.
[19:03:49] <ssi> although fluke fuses are balls expensive
[19:04:12] <archivist> not all meters are fused on the 10A range
[19:04:18] <ssi> mine are
[19:04:24] <ssi> and those are the only ones that matter :D
[19:04:44] <archivist> I am thinking cheap s*** meters
[19:05:01] <ssi> the ones that explode terribly if you hit them with a couple kv?
[19:05:31] <archivist> someone let the smoke out of one of mine on the mains
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[19:09:00] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Now, assuming something is up (say 800mA). Hints on finding it? I was thinking of replacing each fuse in the fusebox with the ampmeter (assuming that total is below acceptable range).
[19:09:11] <zeeshan> thats a lot
[19:09:18] <zeeshan> but not terrible at the same time
[19:09:27] <zeeshan> what model battery do you have?
[19:09:29] <ssi> enough to kill the battery in short order
[19:09:43] <FinboySlick> Optima Yellowtop D35
[19:09:46] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: that is the best way to find the problem
[19:09:51] <zeeshan> isolate each circuit through the fuse box
[19:10:13] <zeeshan> well your battery is 48 ah
[19:10:37] <zeeshan> so it should last at 2 days with that kind of drain
[19:10:48] <zeeshan> at least
[19:10:56] <zeeshan> but i think that rating is at 20C
[19:11:15] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: With -15C and a 3.5L v6 to crank, it's a lot less.
[19:11:20] <ssi> that's also the full to empty rating
[19:11:30] <ssi> you let it drain a few hours and you won't have enough to crank it
[19:11:59] <archivist> 48ah is a bit small for a large engine in the cold
[19:12:18] <lair82> cradek, pcw_home, Just wanted to say thank you for the help, now things are looking a lot more promising, now I have control of it, the drive is tuned, it is running quite fast now, as to be expected anyway, so now on to actual tuning. Thanks again, and I apologize for the craziness, I said from the start it was probably something stupid as to why it wasn,t running as expected, sure enough missing one of the most important conne
[19:12:18] <lair82> ctions lead on a 2 week ride through hell.
[19:12:25] <FinboySlick> archivist: Engine takes all the room under the hood. I had to get creative to fit even that one.
[19:12:47] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: cute little engine
[19:12:48] <zeeshan> :-)
[19:13:14] <zeeshan> is it the ecoboost?
[19:13:19] <archivist> go faster bulge (for the battery)!
[19:13:29] <FinboySlick> factory-provided battery is smaller.
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[19:15:17] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Same block as the SHO ecoboost, but sadly I was just a couple years prior.
[19:15:27] <zeeshan> ah
[19:16:54] <FinboySlick> Steeda's tune claims that I'm around 315HP, but I doubt a dyno would agree.
[19:17:11] <FinboySlick> I do have the go-faster Borla exhaust though.
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[19:29:16] <JT-Shop> sweet just picked up a Giant road bike that was ridden 2 times...
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[20:06:22] <CaptHindsight> Giant is a brand but the first image I had was of JT on something like this http://www.ripleys.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Boneshaker1.jpg
[20:06:39] tofu_ is now known as brlcad
[20:07:45] <_methods> that handlebar placement doesn't look very helpful
[20:08:47] <CaptHindsight> kneejammer
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[20:09:09] <archivist> you can just imagine a reprap noob come up with a design like that
[20:11:30] <archivist> I wonder how many were killed on those
[20:11:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.quirksee.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/DSC_0645.jpg
[20:12:03] <CaptHindsight> V2
[20:13:28] <CaptHindsight> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/98/63/21/9863216ce532cb14e85cee6d90b78bdb.jpg
[20:14:01] <_methods> hahah you better not make fun of the 3d printer people
[20:14:11] <_methods> you'll hurt someones feelings
[20:14:36] * ssi has hurt feelings
[20:14:54] <CaptHindsight> wtf? http://swagct.com/uploads/2012/08/1_1346333793.jpg
[20:15:22] * SpeedEvil sexually identifies as a 3d printer.
[20:15:26] * SpeedEvil looks at his hot end.
[20:15:29] <_methods> hehe
[20:15:36] <_methods> walkicycle
[20:15:50] <_methods> pretty sure that bike comes with a dildo seat
[20:16:29] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/l1SsdEp
[20:16:35] <SpeedEvil> On the topic of bikes though more fun
[20:16:40] <SpeedEvil> Walking bike
[20:16:45] <SpeedEvil> sort-of
[20:17:04] <_methods> strandebeastcycle
[20:17:05] <_methods> lol
[20:17:07] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[20:17:31] <_methods> gilligan got the professor to make him a bicycle
[20:17:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a98513_b3.jpg
[20:18:11] <_methods> that's not on kickstarter?
[20:19:22] <ssi> _methods: I intend to get one of these soooon
[20:19:24] <ssi> http://www.helicycle.com
[20:19:34] <ssi> considerably less makery :D
[20:19:51] <_methods> nice
[20:19:59] <ssi> i ran into a guy with one recently
[20:20:02] <ssi> rekindled my interesnt
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[20:24:38] <_methods> that thing is cool
[20:24:44] <ssi> extremely
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[20:27:17] <ssi> The T62 runs at fixed rpm in flight of approx 60,000 rpm and it has a governor to maintain engine/rotor rpm. It doesn't run at full power, but rather at 100% flight rpm.
[20:27:20] <ssi> Power is controlled by the fuel flow; increasing collective pitch puts more load on the engine and the governor increases fuel flow automatically while holding rpm constant. The pilot simply controls the collective.
[20:31:43] <_methods> choppers are cool
[20:33:20] <SpeedEvil> Swashplates are not
[20:34:15] <ssi> what's wrong with swashplates?
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[20:35:31] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEPf0QHVuMM
[20:36:39] <SpeedEvil> I can't find an interesting NASA paper now LEARN - it was using pnuematic actuators driven from two tubes, one closed at teh hub, one closed at the blade tip, and with actuators between them exploiting the centrifugally pumped air to fly the blade with no external swashllate
[20:36:39] <ssi> you're gonna have a hard time getting inside that thing
[20:36:42] <SpeedEvil> Too complex
[20:36:54] <SpeedEvil> ssi: I haven't worked out how it scales.
[20:37:02] <SpeedEvil> i suspect not great for large ones.
[20:37:58] <ssi> when I say I want a tiny helicopter, tiny means with respect to other manned helicopters :)
[20:38:11] <SpeedEvil> aha
[20:38:15] <SpeedEvil> http://nari.arc.nasa.gov/learnseminar2013
[20:38:28] <SpeedEvil> Full-scale Experimental Validation of Dynamic, Centrifugally Powered, Pneumatic Actuators for Active Rotor Blade Surfaces
[20:38:43] <SpeedEvil> Contains interesting preseentation
[20:39:00] <SpeedEvil> Lots of really cool stuff there
[20:45:20] <ssi> lol a helicycle next to an a-star
[20:45:20] <ssi> http://www.helicycle.com/Flying%20Ships/h4.jpg
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[20:54:06] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r9Gmi-WK7I kickstarter this!
[20:55:05] <CaptHindsight> @ 0:40
[20:56:19] <ssi> cute
[20:59:33] <Magnifikus> would someone agree if i say the docs on machinekit are not that great? looks like copied linuxcnc ones :D
[21:00:16] <CaptHindsight> Magnifikus: they don't have tons of devs and it's a fork of Linuxcnc
[21:00:49] <XXCoder> lol
[21:00:57] <XXCoder> someone forked linuxcnc? why>
[21:01:18] <CaptHindsight> they wanted what they wanted
[21:02:02] <CaptHindsight> why do you ask? what are you up to? :)
[21:02:37] <XXCoder> planned to steal it muhahhaa
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[21:08:48] <Magnifikus> wanted a remote interface :D
[21:08:52] <Magnifikus> thought its cool
[21:10:12] <Magnifikus> now back to stealing the picnc hal :D
[21:12:43] <XXCoder> "LinuxCNC - which eventually turned into Machinekit "
[21:12:46] <XXCoder> wow
[21:12:52] <XXCoder> machinekit.io lies
[21:13:10] <XXCoder> its a fucking fork not change name
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[21:20:34] <mrsun__> where did you find that on that page ?
[21:21:23] <anomynous> XXCoder, maybe they didn't mean that.
[21:21:42] <XXCoder> anomynous: it was a direct quote
[21:21:43] <anomynous> XXCoder, it can be understood as development.
[21:21:45] <anomynous> yes
[21:21:50] <anomynous> i took it as such
[21:21:51] <XXCoder> mrsun__: t blog
[21:21:54] <mrsun__> "Many might remember that one of the key contributions of the unified build branch of LinuxCNC - which eventually turned into Machinekit"
[21:21:55] <XXCoder> *at
[21:22:08] <mrsun__> dont just cut text from somewhere, paste the whole line .. :P
[21:23:08] <CaptHindsight> I'm all for revisionist history and not letting the facts get in the way of my dogma
[21:24:16] <mrsun__> so many things circling about what like obama says and other politi(cans?) say etc and it sounds aweful but then you listen to the whole speach and it has a totaly other meaning .. due to the same fact as XXCoder coder did here, they just cut what they think sounds bad :P
[21:24:42] <anomynous> okay. Now put in an easter egg which says on easter that "Machinekit is just a fork!"
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[21:24:52] <ssi> it's a spork
[21:24:55] <mrsun__> "we should stop the slaughter of poor people" "slaughter of poor people" "OMFG THEY TELL US IN TV TO SLAUGHTER POOR PEOPLE"
[21:25:05] <XXCoder> mrsun__: well so far I know, machinekit is still a fork not main build
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[21:25:27] <mrsun__> XXCoder: they never claimed to be the original build in that sentance :P
[21:25:46] <CaptHindsight> picking of the nits 101
[21:26:03] <anomynous> CaptHindsight, no easter egg? :(
[21:27:58] <CaptHindsight> mrsun__: when did Trump say that? :)
[21:28:22] <mrsun__> CaptHindsight: dont know if anyone has said that was just an example of how people do
[21:28:29] <mrsun__> everything just to be angry at something
[21:28:36] <CaptHindsight> I'm just funnin
[21:29:23] <XXCoder> mrsun__: I removed first part as it was moot - it still says it is now main project
[21:29:29] <XXCoder> having replaced linuxcnc
[21:30:22] <XXCoder> and yes, I know about editing quotes to mean different from what orginial meant, but this isnt the case.
[21:30:42] <mrsun__> i read it as there was a branch that they now renamed to machinekit
[21:30:57] <mrsun__> but then again, im not after any heads
[21:31:11] <zeeshan> what does machinekit allow you to do
[21:31:13] <zeeshan> that linuxcnc doesnt
[21:31:18] <XXCoder> me either, but I don't like theft
[21:31:54] <mrsun__> sigh, there is no theft .. there was a branch that they renamed .. an open source project .. that was forked (branched) .. not theft .. just natural evolution of open source
[21:32:14] <mrsun__> and they cant run around calling their branch for linuxcnc either
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[21:32:35] <CaptHindsight> Look in the road ahead vs Look in the road a head.
[21:33:23] <XXCoder> though zeeshan is right - what does machinekit actually add?
[21:34:02] <zeeshan> i was seriously asking
[21:34:04] <zeeshan> lol
[21:34:08] <XXCoder> zeeshan: I know.
[21:34:21] <zeeshan> i troll a lot, so i wanted to be clear :P
[21:34:31] <mrsun__> beaglebone support it seems, some remote interface to run it
[21:34:45] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: they worked on getting Linuxcnc to work with xenomai, preemt_rt and be easier to interface to web services and remote gui's
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[21:34:53] <mrsun__> or is beaglebone support in the main linuxcnc branch ?
[21:35:13] <XXCoder> good question
[21:35:23] <zeeshan> ah
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[21:36:03] <CaptHindsight> it's in the older UBC2 branch
[21:36:24] <CaptHindsight> go back to '13 and it's all there
[21:36:32] <CaptHindsight> UBC3 sorry
[21:36:41] <XXCoder> so it was removed? wonder why
[21:37:00] <CaptHindsight> not removed just never in the official
[21:37:27] <CaptHindsight> there were lots of changes in that branch that didn't include comments and docs
[21:37:57] <CaptHindsight> but you are welcome to dig through it and slap it together
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[22:03:08] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:08:57] <morbo> hey there
[22:09:06] <morbo> do you guys have any lists of part sources for machines,
[22:09:11] <morbo> like controllers, motors...
[22:09:15] <morbo> computer parts and etc?
[22:11:20] <ReadError> suppose it depends what you are doing?
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[22:17:58] <morbo> ah, I'm building a 5 axis camera
[22:18:13] <morbo> and my boss wants to use mach3 or EMC or linuxcnc
[22:18:19] <morbo> he hasn't decided yet
[22:18:42] <morbo> and figured here would be a good place to look
[22:18:49] <morbo> for resources
[22:19:10] <JT-Shop> stepper or servo?
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[22:20:18] <morbo> steppers
[22:21:22] <JT-Shop> I like the Mesa 5i25 7i76 for steppers and like Gecko stepper drives like G251 for <50v
[22:22:38] <JT-Shop> antek for power supply http://www.antekinc.com/power-supplies/
[22:22:50] <JT-Shop> note that is antek not antec
[22:22:56] <morbo> oh cool, thanks
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[22:26:12] <JT-Shop> recent pc http://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/18-computer/29147-intel-cpu-on-board-motherboard-suggestion?start=20#62692
[22:26:17] <JT-Shop> with good latency
[22:26:43] * JT-Shop goes back to work
[22:26:59] <morbo> I like the Mesa 5i25 7i76 for steppers and like Gecko stepper drives like G251 for <50v
[22:27:01] <morbo> ahh
[22:27:03] <morbo> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=215
[22:27:38] <morbo> these eh
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[22:36:13] <choonway> you might want to start off with something integrated like this
[22:36:16] <choonway> https://www.adafruit.com/products/1749
[22:37:03] <JT-Shop> that won't work with LinuxCNC!
[22:37:23] <choonway> it accepts g-code...
[22:37:53] <morbo> yeah tinyg doesn't go with mach3
[22:37:56] <morbo> or lcnc
[22:38:07] <morbo> from what I've read anyways, definitely not mac3
[22:38:14] <morbo> and thats probably what we'll end up with...annoyingly
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[23:18:13] <JT-Shop> are wireless bike computers that sell for <$20 any good?
[23:18:20] <JT-Shop> http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Raniaco-Original-Wireless-Speedometer/dp/B013SD1X9W/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1449010806&sr=8-4&keywords=bicycle+computer
[23:18:23] <zeeshan> bike computers??!
[23:18:58] <jdh> JT: speed/distance are pretty simple.
[23:19:03] <JT-Shop> yea, got a new road bike today... guy rode it twice lol
[23:19:08] <jdh> what is it?
[23:19:15] <zeeshan> nice jt
[23:19:17] <JT-Shop> yea, that's about all I want
[23:19:24] <zeeshan> i got a q
[23:19:30] <JT-Shop> Giant let me go look
[23:19:30] <zeeshan> is there a reason you dont wanan use your cell phone for that info?
[23:21:43] <JT-Shop> http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy.5/22177/83959/
[23:21:46] <jdh> it's almost time to go biking... I need 260 more miles this year
[23:22:01] <JT-Shop> it's in my pocket playing music on the head phones lol
[23:22:06] <zeeshan> haha jt
[23:22:16] <JT-Shop> how many miles do you ride?
[23:22:27] <zeeshan> you guys must have horse legs
[23:22:32] <zeeshan> w/ all the riding you do
[23:22:37] <jdh> I'm going for 6000 miles this year
[23:22:41] <zeeshan> i wouldn't want to be kicked by you!
[23:22:49] <JT-Shop> this is the one http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy.5/18733/76111/
[23:22:53] <jdh> should get something over that.
[23:22:56] <zeeshan> jdh that's impressive
[23:23:04] <ReadError> any servo gurus around?
[23:23:04] <zeeshan> thats more miles than some people drive in a year
[23:23:20] <ReadError> just wondering the difference in precision on incremental vs hall
[23:23:31] <jdh> looks like a road bike... bikes are good.
[23:23:43] <JT-Shop> I ride about 60 miles a week on the mountain
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[23:23:46] <JT-Shop> bike
[23:24:54] <jdh> that's pretty good for a mtb
[23:25:32] <greg_> hall is for commutation
[23:25:45] <jdh> there are lots of phone apps. I find using teh phone for that annoying
[23:26:09] <JT-Shop> we have some nice trails a few miles from here
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[23:27:13] <ReadError> greg_, hmm so
[23:27:16] <greg_> readerror unless you're using one of those absolute hall encoders
[23:27:27] <ReadError> i see that some offer either as an option
[23:27:34] <ReadError> in terms of encoders
[23:27:59] <ReadError> I just cant see hall being as precise, but ive never used them or any BLDC servos
[23:28:50] <greg_> what do you want to use it for?
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[23:29:29] <ReadError> pick-n-place
[23:30:26] <greg_> motor position feedback?
[23:30:54] <ReadError> yea, and feedback to prevent mis-steps
[23:31:20] <ReadError> and the lighter rotor
[23:31:51] <greg_> no specs on these encoders?
[23:32:05] <ReadError> man, having a hell of a time finding a good place as well
[23:32:13] <ReadError> most sites dont list prices which is a turn off
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[23:32:23] <ReadError> then there ebay/aliexpress
[23:32:33] <greg_> renishaw makes nice ones
[23:32:36] <ReadError> and its all super china spec'd
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[23:33:03] <ReadError> or im finding ones that are waaaay too large for my application
[23:33:44] <greg_> http://www.rls.si/products/rotary-magnetic-encoders/incremental-encoders
[23:36:06] <ReadError> yea thats one of the scary 'contact for quote' sites ;(
[23:38:31] <greg_> depends what price is scary, 120USD for a 9 bit absolute RE22 a few year ago.
[23:39:06] <ReadError> yea, 120 is doable
[23:39:15] <ReadError> but ive seen some listed for much more
[23:39:33] <greg_> they won't bite if you ask for a quote
[23:40:02] <ReadError> would prefer to buy the combo
[23:40:06] <ReadError> motor+encoder
[23:40:15] <ReadError> then source drivers
[23:41:24] <greg_> hall encoders are not very common, but I haven't looked at smaller motors
[23:42:28] <ReadError> im not hard on about hall
[23:42:51] <ReadError> i was mostly wondering the plus/minus to each implementation
[23:50:26] * JT-Shop wanders inside to cook Korean Shrimp Pancakes yummm
[23:51:42] * _methods wonders inside wtf that tastes like
[23:54:31] -!- shurshur has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 40.0.2/20150812163655]]