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[00:02:14] <XXCoder> there is 2 poles, pos and neg
[00:02:18] <XXCoder> wow I helped zee!
[00:03:07] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/5JfONjt.png
[00:03:33] <zeeshan> theres a lot of shit going on there..
[00:03:53] <XXCoder> really? dont see much brown matter
[00:04:06] <XXCoder> heh
[00:05:44] <zeeshan> its got 12 scrs!
[00:07:37] <andypugh> Hmm, three-phase input, 2 phase output, so 12 SCRs that’s no more than twice what you might expect
[00:07:52] <zeeshan> shouldnt there be 6 ?
[00:08:03] <andypugh> 6 for a 3-phase bridge
[00:08:40] <zeeshan> it looks like it its using 3 phaser
[00:08:44] <zeeshan> to directly convert to pulses of dc ?
[00:08:58] <zeeshan> unlike a vfd where you convert 3 phase to a dc voltage first than invert it?
[00:09:12] <andypugh> Basically it looks like the plan is that at any time there is an scr available to feed current from a phase to a pole and one to return current from the motor to any phase
[00:09:32] <andypugh> Yes, it seems to be a fully AC device, no DC stage
[00:09:37] <zeeshan> :(
[00:09:51] <zeeshan> so basically i can't use it
[00:09:52] <zeeshan> damn it
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[00:10:06] <XXCoder> it cant be converted to what you need?
[00:10:22] <zeeshan> XXCoder: the only way in my limited knowledge i can see this working is
[00:10:31] <zeeshan> if i hook up a 30hp single phase motor to a 30hp 3 phase motor
[00:10:42] <andypugh> There is probably no point. It’s a DC motor, and nowadays DC motor control is easy
[00:10:44] <zeeshan> so a motor-generator setup
[00:10:58] <zeeshan> andypugh: why i was really excited to use this was
[00:11:04] <zeeshan> because it already was sized for my motor
[00:11:28] <andypugh> Well, yes, if it is 30hp then its more interesting
[00:11:29] <zeeshan> wait
[00:11:36] <zeeshan> this might be the wrong diagram
[00:11:41] <zeeshan> that is showing it's connected to a DC motor...
[00:11:49] <zeeshan> my motor has 3 phases..
[00:12:10] <andypugh> That diagram is definitely a DC motor
[00:12:21] <zeeshan> not correct
[00:12:41] <andypugh> Looks like a field coil motor, too
[00:12:45] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/QObqBAY.png
[00:12:49] <zeeshan> this is a bit differnt
[00:12:51] <zeeshan> this is for the dC servos
[00:13:00] <zeeshan> in this one it looks like there is a clear DC stage
[00:13:06] <zeeshan> coming right out of the diode module
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[00:13:17] <zeeshan> so if i could tap into that directly, by passing the RST stuff
[00:13:20] <zeeshan> i could maybe use this drive?
[00:14:17] <andypugh> If that is all of it, I don’t see any phase-loss cleverness. Hook it up to 2 phase and it will probbaly work
[00:14:46] <zeeshan> won't it blow up the drive?
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[00:15:44] <andypugh> It would be a pretty silly drive if blowing a fuse in one input phase killed it
[00:15:53] <zeeshan> yes, but running it all the time like that?
[00:16:13] <zeeshan> in reality, i could live with a 30% derating
[00:16:42] <ssi> zeeeeee
[00:16:42] * zeeshan still cant find diagram for ac servo
[00:16:43] <andypugh> You will have more ripple in the DC phase and higher current in the diodes. You might well over heat the rectifier stage. But how much does a rectifier cost?
[00:17:04] <zeeshan> andypugh: when you say i will have more ripple
[00:17:11] <zeeshan> you mean the dc voltage will fluctuate
[00:17:19] <andypugh> don’t mean raspberrry icecream
[00:17:28] <zeeshan> why does ripple cause rectifiers to overheat?
[00:17:44] <zeeshan> hi ian!
[00:17:44] <ssi> ripple CURRENT causes caps to die
[00:17:55] <zeeshan> why?
[00:18:05] <zeeshan> because as the ripple is on the low voltage portion
[00:18:08] <zeeshan> the current shoots up?
[00:18:10] <ssi> because the cap only sees the ripple current, it doesn't see the full current
[00:18:28] <zeeshan> fakin electronics.
[00:18:29] <zeeshan> :]
[00:18:38] <ssi> it sees the change in V across the cap, and it's charging and discharging to smooth the ripple
[00:18:43] <andypugh> It’s mainly a problem for the caps, as ssi said. The rectifiers are each doing 50% more work, apart from the one doing no work, and the increased ripple current pushes up the peak current too.
[00:18:52] <ssi> if you have a cap across DC, there's no current inthe cap
[00:18:57] <zeeshan> andypugh: the one doing no work is a spare rectifier :-)
[00:18:58] <zeeshan> yay!
[00:19:23] <zeeshan> ssi: what is it?
[00:19:25] <zeeshan> "it"
[00:19:39] <ssi> andypugh: hey what happens if you just connect your one phase to all three phase inputs on a vfd?
[00:19:41] <andypugh> Everything will be sized for max power, and you will probably not be using max power for three shitfs
[00:19:49] <ssi> does it spread the load across the input rectifiers
[00:19:51] <ssi> or does it just fail to work
[00:20:03] <ssi> zeeshan: "it" in what sentence?
[00:20:08] <zeeshan> 20:18:42] <ssi> it sees the change in V across the cap,
[00:20:14] <ssi> the capacitor
[00:20:33] <ssi> think about a cap across a dc bus, and you switch the power on and then off again
[00:20:35] <andypugh> One phase to all three inputs? I don’t think you can
[00:20:51] <ssi> when you switch it on, the cap charges, and there's current in the cap. When you switch off, the cap is discharging to supply to the load, and there's current in the cap
[00:20:54] <ssi> that's ripple current
[00:21:05] <ssi> if the DC bus is constant, no ripple, then no charge moves in or out of the cap
[00:21:09] <andypugh> Well, you can connect Live to all three, but if neutral is in the next room, nothing happens at all
[00:21:18] <zeeshan> but i thought that was the point of caps
[00:21:27] <ssi> andypugh: oh duhhh there's no neutral in a 3ph delta
[00:21:28] <zeeshan> to charge and discharge numerous times a second
[00:21:37] <ssi> on 1ph you connect to L1/L2
[00:21:53] <ssi> zeeshan: it is the point, but big bulk caps have a "ripple current" rating
[00:22:06] <ssi> which is a function of their ESR and power handling ability
[00:22:09] <andypugh> Yes, so domestic single phase is 2 wires, not one wire.
[00:22:15] <ssi> andypugh: yea sry brain fart :)
[00:22:19] <zeeshan> if that's the problem
[00:22:22] <zeeshan> then isn't that a simple fix?
[00:22:31] <zeeshan> you solder a much larger cap in place
[00:22:32] <ssi> zeeshan: yeah, use a bigger cap:)
[00:22:33] <ssi> or more of them
[00:22:47] <zeeshan> but since the rectifier is also seeing 50% more current
[00:23:08] <zeeshan> (shouldnt it be 27%?)
[00:23:10] <andypugh> Yes, single phase input just needs bigger caps. In effect single phase input is running at a lower frequency
[00:23:13] <zeeshan> couldn't you also oversize em
[00:23:21] <ssi> nah it's a lot more than 27%
[00:23:56] <ssi> here, you like math
[00:23:56] <ssi> http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/60847/how-does-one-compute-the-ripple-currents-seen-by-a-rectifier-filter-capacitor
[00:23:57] <zeeshan> if you got 1000w 3 phase and 1000w single phase at 240v
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[00:24:00] <ssi> hqheheh
[00:24:20] <ssi> http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/Semi/03269.png
[00:24:26] <andypugh> Simplistically if it was three “things” through three wires then it is still three “things” through two, so 1.5 each not 1 each
[00:24:27] <ssi> compare that to the rectified waveform of single phase
[00:24:39] <zeeshan> 3 phase current will be 4.1A/sqrt(3)=2.4A, and single phase current will be 4.1A
[00:25:19] <andypugh> But it’s just caps and diodes, and you can buy them
[00:25:22] <ssi> http://m.eet.com/media/1117380/c0837-figure1.gif
[00:25:24] <ssi> single phase
[00:26:38] <zeeshan> you guys are helpful :-)
[00:26:49] <andypugh> I would say that it will probably be fine, and if it isn;t then you upgrade the failed parts.
[00:26:55] <ssi> zeeshan:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSCsIt7WUAAoWM0.jpg:large
[00:26:57] <zeeshan> andypugh: i like your thought progress
[00:27:00] <zeeshan> but my problem is
[00:27:01] <ssi> getting my lift cleaned up and painted
[00:27:06] <zeeshan> you're gonna experience the problem when youre machining
[00:27:10] <zeeshan> and pushing the machine
[00:27:16] <zeeshan> for most cases wyou wont be drawing enough current for it to care
[00:27:36] <zeeshan> did you paint that by hand?
[00:27:36] <zeeshan> :D
[00:27:38] <zeeshan> using a brush?
[00:27:40] <ssi> yes, with a brush
[00:27:43] <zeeshan> looks good man
[00:27:45] <ssi> and I had to wire brush all the rust off first
[00:27:53] <zeeshan> what is that thing?
[00:27:59] <ssi> 7klb two post lift
[00:28:04] <zeeshan> why is the post so thin?
[00:28:04] <andypugh> If the drive dies you will f-error and maybe break the cutter. Cutters are cheaper than replacement drives that you might not need.
[00:28:08] <ssi> thin?
[00:28:20] <zeeshan> yes
[00:28:24] <zeeshan> it looks like 1/8" sheet metal
[00:28:26] <zeeshan> 11 gauge
[00:28:27] <ssi> it is
[00:28:36] <ssi> 11 gauge isn't exactly "thin" :P
[00:28:51] <zeeshan> the lifts ive seen are like 1/2" plate.
[00:28:54] <zeeshan> thats why its weird to me :P
[00:28:56] <andypugh> Because any more thickness is a waste.
[00:28:59] <ssi> it's 3/4" plate at the bottom
[00:29:12] <andypugh> Cars are not actually heavy
[00:29:15] <zeeshan> andypugh: i dunno man
[00:29:21] <zeeshan> buckling seems like a good mode of failure
[00:29:37] <zeeshan> anyway, its just an observation :P
[00:29:40] <zeeshan> not saying it wont work :P
[00:29:51] <andypugh> zeeshan: You are an experimantalist yes? That post has lifted cars and not failed yet….
[00:30:01] <ssi> andypugh: overkill is his style :)
[00:30:02] <zeeshan> you know it's serious business when you need a forklift to lift the lift !
[00:30:12] <zeeshan> for something like a hoist
[00:30:16] <ssi> yeah and that's with a 11 ga column
[00:30:16] <zeeshan> i would definitely go towards overkill
[00:30:22] <ssi> imagine what it'd take if it were made of 1/2 plate
[00:30:37] <andypugh> I trust the guys who make car lifts for a living.
[00:30:38] <zeeshan> andypugh: hahah
[00:30:50] <zeeshan> i don't trust anyone
[00:30:54] <zeeshan> until i do the analysis myself :P
[00:30:56] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSCtD0xWIAAD54x.jpg:large
[00:31:00] <Tom_itx> awww..
[00:31:28] <zeeshan> fuck
[00:31:31] <zeeshan> its a magnum lift
[00:31:42] <zeeshan> thats the imported chinese ones
[00:31:44] <zeeshan> that buckle
[00:31:54] <zeeshan> google it
[00:31:58] <ssi> yea I'm aware
[00:32:02] <andypugh> We have a huge variety of lifts at work. I rather like the ones that disappear into the floor.
[00:32:04] <ssi> 15klb on a 10klb lift buckled
[00:32:09] <ssi> I am putting 3300lb on a 7klb lift
[00:32:13] <ssi> ain't skeered
[00:32:45] <ssi> andypugh: I'm not interested in doing that level of concrete work :)
[00:32:51] <andypugh> I have a 100% failure rate on my llifting gear
[00:32:52] <zeeshan> ive applied to this position for designing hydraulic lifts
[00:32:54] <zeeshan> i hope it i get it
[00:33:01] <zeeshan> (speaking of lifts)
[00:34:26] <andypugh> My chinese 2 ton hoist failed at 750kg
[00:35:00] <XXCoder> your 750kg is too over, over 2 tons!
[00:35:01] <zeeshan> haha
[00:35:09] <XXCoder> *heavy
[00:35:53] <Praesmeodymium> my step father used to design hydraulic lift (trucks)
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[00:36:37] <Praesmeodymium> other than a multimeter and a stack of mechanical pencils he didnt keep much from hyster
[00:36:51] <ssi> hyster trucks are weird
[00:37:19] <XXCoder> Praesmeodymium's sep dad's fault
[00:37:25] <ssi> clearly :)
[00:37:29] <Praesmeodymium> he was a lead engineer for them for like 40 years so yeah prolly lol
[00:37:37] <XXCoder> lol ok
[00:38:20] <Praesmeodymium> would come home and say thngs like we shipped a unit to day I had to run down to the dock to take pictures of so we had documented what changes we made before shipping
[00:38:35] <Praesmeodymium> not the best run place for sure
[00:40:53] <Wolf_> figures both my lift trucks are hyster
[00:43:06] <PCW> wow 12 SCRs in the spindle armature drive (and 2 more in the field)
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[00:46:59] <malcom2073_> Lotta scr
[00:48:11] <zeeshan> luckily its not the drive i havbe :P
[00:51:13] <PCW> 2 back to back 3 phase rectifiers with phase control, that's interesting
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[01:03:01] <zeeshan> found my drives diagram
[01:03:02] <zeeshan> fak
[01:03:04] <zeeshan> it doesnt have a dc stage
[01:03:05] <zeeshan> :(
[01:03:06] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/IgB55j3.png
[01:03:12] <zeeshan> wait it does.
[01:03:19] <zeeshan> i missed section DM :)
[01:03:22] <zeeshan> doing too many things at once
[01:18:37] <zeeshan> could someone discuss this with me? :D
[01:18:52] <zeeshan> i see rst going into a fuse holder
[01:18:58] <jdh> furry would have
[01:19:15] <zeeshan> and a couple of inductors to prolly soften the initial current draw
[01:19:33] <zeeshan> and then more series inductors for some reason (seems like line reactors?)
[01:20:01] <zeeshan> then it goes into a rectifier diode module which converts it to DC and its simple from there
[01:21:08] <zeeshan> jdh haha
[01:21:46] <andypugh> zeeshan: I guarantee that the person here who understands servo drives best is the guy that makes them.
[01:22:15] <zeeshan> lol
[01:22:19] <ssi> andypugh: yea but you also think that guys that make car lifts know about car lifts
[01:22:34] <zeeshan> ssi: apparently not!
[01:22:40] <zeeshan> =P
[01:22:52] * zeeshan knocks on pcw's door
[01:23:11] <zeeshan> the thing im lost about
[01:23:15] <zeeshan> is at f1 f2 and f3
[01:23:20] <zeeshan> lemme just highlight the wires in q
[01:23:24] <ssi> the inductors also reduce ripple
[01:26:24] <andypugh> “Regenerative Control Unit, Here be Dragons”
[01:28:28] <malcom2073_> +1 for that
[01:28:50] <andypugh> They have bussed together so many wires that it is a bit hard to see if there are phase-loss smarts included
[01:29:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/T7txKna.png
[01:29:09] <zeeshan> i tried to highlight the wires in q
[01:29:16] <zeeshan> notice how the red wire joins the blue wire
[01:29:22] <zeeshan> near the fuse dpanel
[01:29:41] <zeeshan> isn't that shorting a phase together?!?!
[01:30:10] <andypugh> They are just lying about how many wires there are
[01:31:31] <andypugh> I think that they are saying that (at least) two phases go to CN5 and the Box Of Dragons as a single-phase power supply
[01:31:42] <zeeshan> haha box of dragons
[01:31:49] <zeeshan> i love black boxes.
[01:31:55] <zeeshan> don't have to worry about whats going on inside :P
[01:32:15] <zeeshan> but at the same time, it is taking in 3 phase
[01:32:17] <zeeshan> :(
[01:34:09] <andypugh> And has fuses like vestigial sperm-whale legs.
[01:34:47] <andypugh> (
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Sperm_whale_skeleton.jpg )
[01:35:22] <andypugh> They have back legs, with hooves, inside a muscle connected to nothing.
[01:37:46] <malcom2073_> I enjoy the fact that you take the time to explain, with an image, your analogy
[01:37:50] <malcom2073_> Kudos for that
[01:39:01] <andypugh> I just think it is funny that sperm whales are hooved mammals, part of the ungulate family, along with camels.
[01:40:45] <Praesmeodymium> I thinks its amusing that on top of everything else the platypus is poisonous
[01:42:32] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ImFI27n.jpg
[01:42:37] <zeeshan> here's the servo drives and spindle drive physically
[01:42:40] <zeeshan> frigging heavy
[01:42:49] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/kQ3Q4SC.jpg
[01:43:00] <zeeshan> im wondering what those 2 gray wires jumpered off r s are :P
[01:43:48] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/QEZPSol.jpg < control for drive; power components for drive:
http://i.imgur.com/klsm9We.jpg
[01:45:12] <andypugh> There are many more components there than they show in the diagrams, that’s for sure
[01:45:19] <zeeshan> yep :(
[01:45:31] <zeeshan> might be part of that dragon box
[01:46:03] <andypugh> Those grey wires look like a single-phase feed to something needing power. I assume those three capsules are just fuses?
[01:46:18] <zeeshan> since each leg is drawing about 1.73 more current
[01:46:21] <zeeshan> x
[01:46:27] <zeeshan> i think it'd need larger wires?
[01:46:35] <zeeshan> yes those are fuses
[01:49:23] <andypugh> The grey wires are already a single phase supply, so they won’t notice what you have done. Of course if you chose to wire to R and T then whatever they power would be sad.
[01:49:41] <zeeshan> yes
[01:49:46] <andypugh> I suspect that those grey wires are the ones you mentioned earlier.
[01:49:54] <zeeshan> the ones ihighlight
[01:49:56] <zeeshan> in purple and blue?
[01:50:16] <andypugh> Yes
[01:50:20] <zeeshan> that would makle sense
[01:50:32] <zeeshan> just confused me that there was a short between the red and blue wire
[01:50:53] <andypugh> Though I think all the lines in the diagram represent wire bundles, not wires
[01:51:16] <zeeshan> i think these gray wires are the ones
[01:51:22] <zeeshan> that go to "f4b and f4a" fuses
[01:51:57] <malcom2073_> ssi: Check out the other auctions listed now for that york,PA auction
[01:52:00] <malcom2073_> They finished listing stuff
[01:52:08] <malcom2073_> Gasoline forklift for $25, needs a new carb
[01:52:09] <malcom2073_> that's an easy fix
[01:52:58] <zeeshan> okay thats enough thinking for a friday night
[01:53:00] <ssi> hah
[01:53:33] <ssi> zeeshan: I got one of those stmbl servo drives built
[01:53:33] <andypugh> zeeshan: Yes then to the transformer for control power
[01:53:50] <ssi> but I put the HV mcu in 180 degrees out in my late night soldering fever, and kilt it
[01:53:56] <Praesmeodymium> seasoning?
[01:53:59] <zeeshan> stmbl servo drives? :P
[01:54:07] <Praesmeodymium> oh wrong window whoops
[01:54:07] <malcom2073_> Lol damn
[01:54:09] <ssi> zeeshan:
https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl
[01:54:35] <malcom2073_> ssi: Also tons of metal stock, you should rent a uhaul for the return trip :-P
[01:54:40] <ssi> malcom2073_: haha
[01:54:47] <ssi> I got outbid on both chick vises
[01:54:51] <malcom2073_> Haha
[01:54:52] <ssi> dunno about that bore gage
[01:55:00] <malcom2073_> I wait until the last minute
[01:55:03] <malcom2073_> just in casesomeone forgets to check
[01:55:30] <andypugh> I should get rid of my Kurt vice. Far too big for my mill, and has no jaws.
[01:55:37] <ssi> how big is it?
[01:55:44] <andypugh> 9"
[01:55:48] <ssi> woooow
[01:55:52] <ssi> that'd go well in my cinci :D
[01:55:53] <malcom2073_> Give youa dollar
[01:55:55] <andypugh> Double
[01:55:59] <ssi> but the shipping would eat me alive
[01:56:03] <ssi> oo double 9? even better
[01:56:13] <ssi> what I've been wanting to do is put two or three double 6's in there
[01:56:14] <andypugh> Yes. And no jaws
[01:56:16] <malcom2073_> Haha yeah, bet that would cost a prety penny to ship
[01:56:22] <malcom2073_> I need a vice period, I got nothin
[01:56:24] <ssi> kurt jaws can be had
[01:56:26] <ssi> they're spendy
[01:56:28] <malcom2073_> vise*
[01:56:32] <ssi> I got some groovelock jaws for my double 4"
[01:56:37] <andypugh> Yes, about $800
[01:56:42] <ssi> daaang
[01:57:00] <malcom2073_> I'm hoping one of these cheap vises go for super cheap on this auction
[01:57:04] <zeeshan> someone find me a 20hp ac servo drive
[01:57:05] <zeeshan> plz
[01:57:10] <zeeshan> that runs off single phase
[01:57:11] <andypugh> I should probably sell the handle and scrap the rest
[01:57:11] <zeeshan> !!
[01:57:20] <ssi> zeeshan: doubt such an animal exists
[01:57:20] <zeeshan> dont scrap a kurt vise
[01:57:25] <zeeshan> ssi why :(
[01:57:39] <ssi> cause 20hp is a shitpile of power, and nobody sane runs that on single phase :)
[01:57:47] <malcom2073_> zeeshan: Find me single phase 140amp power
[01:57:51] <malcom2073_> and I'll find you a controller that'll run off it
[01:57:53] <zeeshan> its only 14kW
[01:57:56] <zeeshan> 15
[01:57:59] <malcom2073_> wait, ima nub
[01:58:03] <ssi> I have a 25hp vfd
[01:58:08] <zeeshan> 62.5A
[01:58:12] <zeeshan> thats not a lot of power :P
[01:58:13] <malcom2073_> Yeah, off by a factor of two heh
[01:58:30] <zeeshan> my weldfer uses that much :P
[01:58:30] <renesis> most ive seen is 50A single phase
[01:58:41] <renesis> they wired me one of those to test AB amps \o/
[01:58:54] <ssi> zeeshan: why don't you design and build one?
[01:58:59] <zeeshan> HAHAHAHa
[01:58:59] <zeeshan> HAHAHAHa
[01:58:59] <zeeshan> HAHAHAHa
[01:59:02] <zeeshan> good one
[01:59:06] <ssi> why?
[01:59:07] -!- Akex_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
[01:59:11] <zeeshan> F electronics
[01:59:17] <ssi> take that stmbl project and scale up the HV section
[01:59:18] <zeeshan> gimme a black box to plug and play
[01:59:24] <ssi> it uses an all in one 3 phase IGBT module right now
[01:59:30] <ssi> redesign it with discrete mosfets
[01:59:36] <ssi> wouldn't be terribly hard to do
[01:59:40] <renesis> nom
[01:59:43] <zeeshan> ssi trust me, electronics is something i'm not super good at
[01:59:47] <ssi> the 8i20 is a 2200W servo drive
[01:59:49] <zeeshan> i can work w/ it macroscopically
[01:59:58] <ssi> you just need something like that but moar beefier HV section :)
[02:00:16] <ssi> hell maybe I'll do it
[02:00:27] <zeeshan> dont have the same brushless motor?
[02:00:28] <ssi> i could sell my vfd and use the new drive for my spindle
[02:00:30] <zeeshan> for your spindle
[02:00:40] <ssi> I dunno if it's brushless or not!
[02:00:43] <ssi> I think it is
[02:00:50] <andypugh> In a previous job we built a test rig for car radiators. Which had a 100kW heater in it. We had to rent a container-sized generator to test it as our factory unit didn’t have a big enough power supply.
[02:00:51] <zeeshan> did you open the motor box
[02:00:52] <zeeshan> to see?
[02:00:59] <ssi> going back to my pictures
[02:00:59] <ssi> sec
[02:01:13] <zeeshan> haha andypugh
[02:01:16] <zeeshan> 100kW!!
[02:01:51] <ssi> I dunno, don't have any pics of the data plate or anything
[02:01:55] <ssi> lemme see if I can see it on the machine
[02:02:02] <zeeshan> read the model #
[02:02:12] <zeeshan> itll say AC spinndle motor model xxx
[02:02:38] <andypugh> It had to make as much hot water as a powerful car engine at full-chat. And that turns out to be quite a lot.
[02:03:59] <ssi> AC spindle motor 18P/10000
[02:04:45] <ssi> 9/11kw cont/30min
[02:04:52] <ssi> 33/40A cont/30min
[02:05:02] <ssi> 4 pole, 3 phase
[02:05:12] <ssi> i guess that is a brushless motor, but I don't think it has any commutation feedback
[02:05:37] <zeeshan> i think mine has a digital encoder in it
[02:05:42] <ssi> mine has a weird encoder
[02:05:45] <ssi> and I couldn't make it work
[02:05:59] <zeeshan> btw
[02:06:06] <zeeshan> did i tell you i found a shit load of fanuc manuals
[02:06:09] <zeeshan> for older machines?
[02:06:10] <ssi> no
[02:06:18] <zeeshan> http://cncmanual.com/fanuc-ac-spindle-motor-series-descriptions-65012e/
[02:06:22] <zeeshan> heres the one for your spindle motor
[02:06:22] <ssi> here:
[02:06:22] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0W6_x0IQAAiHfB.jpg:large
[02:06:24] <zeeshan> surf that website
[02:06:26] <ssi> does that look familiar to you at all?
[02:06:28] <zeeshan> theres tons on thjere
[02:06:35] <zeeshan> i never opened the back of mine up
[02:07:34] <zeeshan> page 96
[02:08:15] <ssi> what about it
[02:08:23] <zeeshan> looks like a 3 phase servo motor
[02:08:24] <zeeshan> to me
[02:08:28] <zeeshan> it has uv w terminals
[02:08:34] <zeeshan> and the controller says
[02:08:35] <ssi> so do 3 phase induction motors
[02:08:37] <zeeshan> "AC spindle servo unit"
[02:08:42] <ssi> hm
[02:08:49] <zeeshan> and there is a signal coming on cn2
[02:08:52] <zeeshan> back from the motor
[02:08:57] <zeeshan> and from my udnerstanding, cn2 is the feedback
[02:09:05] <zeeshan> on fanuc spindle drives
[02:09:10] <zeeshan> cn2 connector
[02:09:23] <zeeshan> thers Pb, pa, rb, ra +5v, 0v
[02:09:27] <zeeshan> looks like quadrature
[02:09:32] <ssi> I wish it were a little clearer
[02:09:38] <zeeshan> yes its tough to read
[02:09:44] <ssi> lemme try downloading it
[02:09:49] <ssi> might take me a month
[02:09:55] <zeeshan> 9,7
[02:10:02] <zeeshan> on cn2 connector
[02:10:04] <zeeshan> is your overheat sensor
[02:10:09] <zeeshan> im not sure what SS is
[02:10:13] <zeeshan> probably shield
[02:10:23] <ssi> there must be an index on the encoder
[02:10:28] <ssi> it needs absolute angle for toolchange orient
[02:11:02] <zeeshan> mine doesnt seem to have an index..
[02:11:21] <zeeshan> because it's only feeding the a and b phase of the qaudrature
[02:11:24] <zeeshan> to get speed feedback
[02:11:26] <zeeshan> thats all the drive needs
[02:11:38] <zeeshan> maybe there is an external proximity switch that keeps track of the index position
[02:11:42] <ssi> I dunno
[02:11:43] <zeeshan> which feeds directly into your controller
[02:11:53] <ssi> the original drive has an "orient board" that is a daughterboard on it
[02:12:06] <zeeshan> cause on my machine, my spindle motor has this shit like yours
[02:12:18] <zeeshan> but it also has a timing belt right off the spindle
[02:12:21] <zeeshan> which feeds into another encoder
[02:12:24] <ssi> hm weird
[02:12:28] <zeeshan> and i guarantee you that has index
[02:12:50] <zeeshan> it makes sense why they do that
[02:12:55] <zeeshan> cause you get rid of the backlash and shit like that
[02:13:15] <ssi> if there's a second encoder on mine I dunno where it is
[02:13:32] <zeeshan> prolly after the gearbox
[02:13:36] <zeeshan> or pulley system
[02:13:44] <zeeshan> there definitely is a back gear on your machine
[02:13:53] <ssi> definitely?
[02:13:55] <ssi> why do you say that
[02:13:56] <zeeshan> has to be :P
[02:14:00] <ssi> seems direct drive to me
[02:14:00] <zeeshan> its a serious business machine
[02:14:25] <ssi> er no
[02:14:27] <ssi> it's not direct drive
[02:14:43] <zeeshan> if you're tapping 3/4 holes
[02:14:56] <zeeshan> which is likely since they've given you a big motor
[02:15:02] <zeeshan> and its rigid enough
[02:15:09] <zeeshan> i'd think they'd want to drop it down to a low gear
[02:15:13] <zeeshan> to stop you from blowing up taps
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[02:15:48] <zeeshan> get your stuff working man
[02:15:51] <zeeshan> off single phase
[02:15:52] <zeeshan> PLZ!!!
[02:16:09] <zeeshan> be the guinea pig
[02:16:15] <zeeshan> and hook up 240v single phase to r and s
[02:16:18] <zeeshan> and see what happens :)
[02:17:52] <malcom2073_> [21:59:42] <zeeshan> ssi trust me, electronics is something i'm not super good at
[02:17:55] <malcom2073_> Stick to that.
[02:17:55] <ssi> no I don't think there's a back gear
[02:18:12] <ssi> there's a bigass triple timing belt
[02:18:25] <andypugh> Nothing bad will happen. Three phase machines _have_ to be robust against a phase dropping out. They even provide fuses that would do exactly that. Irt might fault out, but it won’t die.
[02:18:28] <ssi> and my spindle already runs on single phase
[02:18:49] <ssi> I've had it spinning before
[02:18:52] <ssi> the bearings are shot though
[02:18:57] <zeeshan> wait what
[02:18:59] <zeeshan> you powered your drive
[02:19:01] <zeeshan> w/ single phase?
[02:19:01] <ssi> yes
[02:19:04] <zeeshan> ha!
[02:19:05] <ssi> over a year ago
[02:19:11] <zeeshan> what abou the servo drives
[02:19:16] <ssi> not the fanuc drive
[02:19:20] <ssi> the wj200 I bought
[02:20:09] <zeeshan> o
[02:20:24] <zeeshan> are you sure the bearings are shot
[02:20:31] <zeeshan> or it was your silly vfd causing the noise
[02:20:37] <ssi> no it's the bearings
[02:20:39] <zeeshan> i've comre across postings
[02:20:47] <zeeshan> where ppl say their motor was making weird noises when doing this
[02:20:48] <ssi> the guy that sold it to me told me that the bearings were shot, and gave me a set of bearings with it
[02:20:52] <zeeshan> ah
[02:20:55] <zeeshan> thsoe are easy to change
[02:21:04] <andypugh> Bearings and shot can look very similar, but lead shot is heavier than ball bearings and tastes different.
[02:21:14] <ssi> andypugh: what about steel shot?!
[02:21:37] <zeeshan> man i'd love to take the dc axis motors off the machine
[02:21:41] <zeeshan> but they're 300lb
[02:21:42] <ssi> zeeshan: when I get the axis motors going, you need to come down for a few days and help me get all the fun stuff working
[02:21:44] <andypugh> ssi: That’s more difficult
[02:21:52] <zeeshan> cause each has some sort of drivetrain
[02:21:54] <zeeshan> earbox
[02:22:02] <zeeshan> *gearbox
[02:22:11] <zeeshan> ssi :D
[02:22:27] <ssi> like spindle bearings, and the orient/toolchange
[02:23:14] <zeeshan> your spindle motor is going on ebay for 1700$
[02:23:17] <zeeshan> :)
[02:23:30] <zeeshan> don't abuse it by running it as a pos induction motor
[02:23:31] <zeeshan> !!!
[02:23:34] <ssi> lol
[02:23:52] <zeeshan> actually when i think about it
[02:23:53] <ssi> you think running it with a vfd will hurt it?
[02:23:57] <zeeshan> you should be able to use a vfd
[02:24:01] <zeeshan> to complete the feedback loop
[02:24:09] <zeeshan> you dont need these fanuc servo drives
[02:24:12] <zeeshan> cause there is no slip?
[02:24:23] <zeeshan> so its synchronous
[02:24:27] <ssi> "According to the specs, the WJ200 series can drive both induction and Permanent Magnet motors. One parameter to select which, and no more explanation in the manual.
[02:24:28] <zeeshan> the only thing is the wave type
[02:24:30] <ssi> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/transformers-phase-converters-and-vfd/hitachi-wj200-pm-motors-242351/
[02:25:00] <zeeshan> Your assumptions are correct, 3 phase PM motor with an FLA under the rating of the drive. But this is NOT a servo "controller", it is merely a servo power supply at that point. To use it on a servo motor, you still need a controller that collects and interpolates the encoder signals from the servo motor and gives the output command to the drive as to where to send the load.
[02:25:04] <zeeshan> what is this idiot talking about
[02:25:08] <ssi> I have no idea
[02:25:13] <zeeshan> the wj200 takes feedback
[02:25:18] <zeeshan> its a full closed loop drive
[02:25:27] <zeeshan> it might understand the fanuc encoder
[02:25:32] <zeeshan> but im sure you can convert it
[02:25:38] <zeeshan> w/ your fancy signal converter
[02:25:42] <ssi> lol
[02:25:56] <zeeshan> hmm
[02:26:00] <zeeshan> now you've got me thinking on what to do..
[02:26:15] <ssi> now you've got ME thinking whether I screwed up buying that vfd
[02:26:18] <ssi> it was not cheap btw
[02:26:31] <andypugh> the bldc HAL component can convert between most types of feedback.
[02:26:31] <ssi> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx8ehKL2lDhfMkhVRWc2TU4wdHc/edit
[02:26:32] <zeeshan> easy to sell it on ebay
[02:26:34] <ssi> man the chinglish is bad
[02:26:51] <zeeshan> the wj200 is very much like my sumitomo drive
[02:26:56] <zeeshan> infact the manuals are almost a copy
[02:27:02] <zeeshan> i think sumitomo just renamed the drive
[02:27:24] <zeeshan> search for "encoder feedback"
[02:27:31] <zeeshan> it shows up :P
[02:27:43] <zeeshan> andypugh: wouldn't linuxcnc be too slow?
[02:27:47] <ssi> The WJ200 inverter can drive both induction motors (IM) and permanent magnetic motors (PM). Energy conservation and miniaturization can be achieved using PM motors. Moreover, one inverter used for two types of motor.
[02:28:00] <andypugh> zeeshan: Sometimes, yes. Aften not
[02:28:45] <zeeshan> in a couple weeks when things are sorted here
[02:28:53] <zeeshan> ill try to power the servo drives w/ single phase
[02:28:55] <zeeshan> and see what happens..
[02:29:02] <ssi> lul do it
[02:29:14] <ssi> I didn't even consider trying to use the fanuc drives
[02:29:18] <andypugh> Interesting, I have a WJ200 on my mill
[02:29:19] <ssi> cause the documentation on them sucks
[02:29:29] <ssi> andypugh: induction motor or PM?
[02:29:34] <zeeshan> ssi
[02:29:37] <zeeshan> that website has all of it
[02:29:41] <zeeshan> its a lot of reading
[02:29:44] <ssi> yea well it's a little late now :)
[02:30:01] <zeeshan> its funny i was frowning upon your fanuc stuff
[02:30:03] <zeeshan> and now im stuck with it
[02:30:06] <ssi> hahaha
[02:30:11] <zeeshan> karma's a bitch
[02:30:14] <ssi> "just sell all that crap and buy some teco axes"
[02:30:20] <ssi> wait that was pete
[02:30:20] <ssi> hahaha
[02:30:27] <zeeshan> pete has a good point
[02:30:29] <zeeshan> he doesnt fak around
[02:30:31] <zeeshan> just plug and play
[02:30:34] <ssi> I know
[02:30:35] <zeeshan> but we're tinkered
[02:30:36] <andypugh> ssi: It’s running an induction motor, but I have other things that could do that, if I need it for something else
[02:30:40] <zeeshan> tinkerers
[02:30:42] <zeeshan> if we learn fanuc
[02:30:47] <zeeshan> we can pretty much fix any fanuc machine
[02:30:50] <zeeshan> so it's worth learning about it
[02:30:51] <ssi> WE CAN CONQUER THE WORLLLDDDDD
[02:31:13] <andypugh> ssi: Just get a Smoothstepper and Gecko drives
[02:31:21] <zeeshan> andypugh: this is the machine you did indexing on using an induction motor?
[02:31:24] -!- PetefromTn_ [PetefromTn_!~IceChat9@75-136-59-160.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:31:25] <ssi> andypugh: D:
[02:31:37] <ssi> andypugh: the stmbl guys are trying to convince me to run them in position mode
[02:31:40] <ssi> and I'm skeptical :)
[02:32:03] <andypugh> zeeshan: No, that was actually a really old-school V/f inverter.
[02:32:29] <Jymmm> Molten Aluminum and a watermelon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgnsXPnAX8M
[02:33:14] <andypugh> ssi: I can see why they say that, but that’s becase they don’t know what the benfits are of having your position loop inside LinuxCNC are
[02:33:25] <ssi> andypugh: I know!
[02:33:27] <andypugh> (velocity feedforward, for one)
[02:33:44] <ssi> 16:32 < crinq> stmbl has a 5khz servo loop
[02:33:44] <ssi> 16:33 < crinq> you don’t need a pid loop in lcnc
[02:33:50] <ssi> 16:33 < crinq> the stmbl pid loop is far more advanced than the one in lcnc
[02:34:03] <ssi> ...skeptical :D
[02:34:09] <andypugh> Well, that’s fighting talk :-)
[02:34:26] <ssi> yeah actually now taht you mention it, it CANT be more advanced
[02:34:27] <andypugh> Ask them about velocity feedforward
[02:34:28] <ssi> because it can't do FF
[02:34:37] <zeeshan> lol
[02:34:38] <ssi> Sync: NYAH
[02:34:58] <ssi> andypugh: it's important because I have to figure out the best way to feed everybody feedback
[02:35:02] <PetefromTn_> hey folks
[02:35:07] <zeeshan> howdy pete
[02:35:13] <PetefromTn_> howdee!
[02:35:13] <andypugh> Oh, and gain scheduling
[02:35:16] <ssi> the drive wants angle feedback, and they're telling me that encoder feedback will be stiffest
[02:35:34] <PetefromTn_> just got my new Cat40 ER32 holders setup out in the shop...
[02:35:41] <andypugh> That might be true
[02:35:42] <ssi> it occurred to me that I could use the fanuc commutation tracks as angle feedback for the drive
[02:35:44] <PetefromTn_> LOVE that I will not be swapping holders anymore
[02:35:46] <ssi> but it'll be lumpier
[02:36:11] <ssi> but my options otherwise are fairly numerous:
[02:36:24] <ssi> I could give the encoder to the drive, and have the drive report it back via smartserial
[02:36:36] <ssi> it'll be a cycle late in that case, pcw said he thinks it'd work ok if I run 4khz
[02:36:42] <andypugh> You can start with fanuc 16-step then switch to encoder sinusoidal at the first edge or at encoder index
[02:36:56] <ssi> I could give the encoder to the 7i77, and provide it to the drive via sserial
[02:37:10] <ssi> andypugh: that's how my original converters were gonna do it
[02:37:15] <ssi> but I got hung up on that project :)
[02:37:28] <andypugh> You know about the bldc HAL component?
[02:37:29] <ssi> they are telling me that the drive can autophase the motor and doesn't need commutation feedback
[02:37:33] <ssi> yes I do
[02:37:43] <ssi> I didn't like that option because it'd be a wiring nightmare
[02:37:52] <zeeshan> 4khz = how much rpm
[02:37:54] <ssi> I would need another IO expansion board to make that work :P
[02:38:09] <zeeshan> 240000
[02:38:09] <zeeshan> rpm
[02:38:18] <zeeshan> divide by 4 cuz quad
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[02:38:28] <ssi> zeeshan: not talking about encoder counting
[02:38:28] <zeeshan> 60000rpm
[02:38:30] <zeeshan> o
[02:38:42] <ssi> talking about sending the encoder count values over smartserial
[02:38:43] <andypugh> They are right, it is possible for a drive to infer rotor position from back-emf, current phase and suchlike.
[02:38:50] <ssi> reads are a cycle late
[02:38:59] <ssi> so if linuxcnc's position feedback is a cycle late, it'd cause tuning issues
[02:39:12] <ssi> bump the servo thread up from 1khz to 4khz and you reduce the severity of those issues
[02:39:14] <zeeshan> andypugh: that feels sketchy :P
[02:39:21] <zeeshan> a direct measurement is prolly the best!
[02:39:25] <ssi> zeeshan: it's just for initial phasing
[02:39:35] <ssi> once the encoder is referenced it does sinusoidal commutation
[02:39:53] <zeeshan> i don't understand commutation -- thats the problem
[02:40:02] <zeeshan> i understand theres a signal shot every 120 degrees
[02:40:08] <ssi> zeeshan: commutation is like pedaling a bike
[02:40:09] <zeeshan> which tells you the motor angle
[02:40:17] <andypugh> There are more ways to skin this cat than the cat has lives :-)
[02:40:20] <ssi> you have to push down at the right time, or you're fighting the motion
[02:40:32] <ssi> in order to know when to push, you have to sense the angle of the crank
[02:40:53] <andypugh> Nice analogy, I will steal that
[02:41:00] <ssi> I JUST CAME UP WITH IT!
[02:41:02] <ssi> steal away :D
[02:41:24] <zeeshan> i understand why you need commutation
[02:41:27] <ssi> I have to really dig deep in the metaphor bucket to get things through zee's thick canadian skull :D
[02:41:38] <zeeshan> correct me if im wrong
[02:41:42] <zeeshan> but some motors use encoders to achieve this
[02:41:45] <zeeshan> some use hall effect sensors
[02:41:51] <zeeshan> encoders are more accurate
[02:41:52] <ssi> correct
[02:42:00] <ssi> but incremental encoders aren't good for it
[02:42:11] <andypugh> You can’t use an incremental encoder to start a motor
[02:42:12] <ssi> because until you've referenced the index, you have no absolute angle data, only velocity and direction
[02:42:51] <ssi> andypugh: yeah, but you can "snap" the motor to a known angle with a known drive configuration, measure backemf etc and autophase
[02:42:55] <ssi> then go from there
[02:42:59] <andypugh> You can spin the motor like a low-count stepper, find the index and _then_ use the encoder.
[02:43:22] <zeeshan> im just trying to understand how my spindle motor is working
[02:43:28] <zeeshan> they dont have an index in the motor encoder
[02:43:32] <zeeshan> and you're commutating it..
[02:43:44] <ssi> zeeshan: yea see that's what I was wondering about too
[02:43:57] <zeeshan> why do you need to care about the index position
[02:43:58] <ssi> and I think the answer there has something to do with "sensorless vector drive"
[02:44:00] <andypugh> Even the bldc HAL component can do the magnetic hioming thing, but it breaks if the axis is under load.
[02:44:04] <zeeshan> just spin it one direction
[02:44:07] <zeeshan> and use the secondary encoder
[02:44:10] <zeeshan> to grab the position?
[02:44:17] <ssi> andypugh: how much load
[02:44:24] <ssi> andypugh: weight of the Z axis load?
[02:44:40] <zeeshan> dude
[02:44:52] <zeeshan> to me it makes no sense that they'd go thru the hassle of adding quadrature
[02:45:09] <zeeshan> and be like "hey lets work with back emf and all these non direct measurements w/ errors"
[02:45:12] <zeeshan> to find the index position
[02:45:15] <zeeshan> doesn't sound very japanese to me
[02:45:16] <zeeshan> :P
[02:45:27] <ssi> well the magnetic homing thing isn't about finding the index
[02:45:27] <zeeshan> sounds american
[02:45:29] <zeeshan> but not japanese :P
[02:45:43] <ssi> I honestly don't know how the fanuc spindle motor is supposed to work
[02:45:43] <andypugh> ssi: Depends… If the Z is near the torque limit then the home will be off. If it isn’t it won’t be. But is’s a sketchy way to do it and involves uncontrolled axis movement.
[02:45:50] <zeeshan> im gonna read the manual
[02:45:51] <ssi> but the axis motors use that goofy ass proprietary commutation track
[02:46:02] <zeeshan> i think i need to read abotu the 3t fanuc control manual
[02:46:05] <ssi> andypugh: yeah, that's been a mild concern of mine too
[02:46:05] <zeeshan> + motor amanual
[02:46:09] <zeeshan> cause they might be working together
[02:46:21] <ssi> I dunno
[02:46:22] <PetefromTn_> sounds pretty damn Canadian to me..
[02:46:26] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: hahah
[02:46:33] <ssi> at least this drive is all open source, so if I need to make changes I can
[02:46:43] <zeeshan> and it doesnt cost 3000 to replace
[02:46:44] <zeeshan> :-)
[02:46:50] <ssi> yep
[02:46:50] <andypugh> The best solution is always Resolvers, and I am continuing my one-man crusade to persuade you all.
[02:46:50] <PetefromTn_> ya got two sorted and built for me yet?
[02:46:54] <ssi> I can build them for under $100 apiece
[02:47:05] <ssi> PetefromTn_: not yet, have one built but I dorked up the high side mcu
[02:47:07] <zeeshan> for your spindle?
[02:47:08] <ssi> waiting on a replacement
[02:47:11] <zeeshan> or axis
[02:47:15] <ssi> axis
[02:47:18] <ssi> these are 1kw drives
[02:47:24] <zeeshan> cute
[02:47:24] <ssi> andypugh: I actually rather like resolvers
[02:47:25] <PetefromTn_> way to dork it up jeez LOL
[02:47:25] <zeeshan> :D
[02:47:26] <zeeshan> :D
[02:47:35] <andypugh> Actually, ebay is full of $75 resolvers, and at that price they do look like a good option.
[02:47:38] <ssi> andypugh: the stmbl drive is also capable of using resolvers as the angle feedback
[02:47:50] <ssi> so if I get a handle on them, I may replace the hiaks in my hnc with them
[02:47:56] <ssi> and get rid of that boat anchor 90VDC supply
[02:48:01] <zeeshan> andypugh: arent resolvers obselete
[02:48:06] <zeeshan> cause they're suspectible to noise?
[02:48:22] <ssi> I think they're obsolete because they're expensive to manufacture
[02:48:23] <PetefromTn_> these would need a seperate power supply right
[02:48:24] <ssi> they're rotary transformers
[02:48:26] <andypugh> No, because they recover from noise instantly
[02:48:45] <ssi> PetefromTn_: yes, but it's just a 120VAC rectified and filtered with a couple caps
[02:48:48] <ssi> nothing fancy
[02:48:52] <zeeshan> the more i work on cnc machinery
[02:48:56] <zeeshan> unless its a tormach
[02:49:01] <zeeshan> i don't see any cost cutting measures on machinery
[02:49:20] <ssi> zeeshan: there's cost cutting going on, it's just not obvious
[02:49:32] <ssi> for instance, in the 60s copper was cheap and capacitors were extremely expensive
[02:49:35] <ssi> now it's the other way around
[02:49:46] <ssi> so back then they'd design using bigass inductors for filters, now they use bigass caps
[02:49:57] <zeeshan> the output from the resolver
[02:50:04] <ssi> resolvers are a good example of that
[02:50:06] <zeeshan> looks exactly like the same as my glass scale output
[02:50:07] <ssi> they're rotary transformers
[02:50:09] <zeeshan> before interpolation
[02:50:10] <andypugh> A resolver might give a bad value on one sample, but the next one will be right. With an encoder you keep that error till power-down.
[02:50:13] <ssi> so there's three windings in there, and a bunch of mechanical shit
[02:50:21] <ssi> encoders are dirt ass simple
[02:50:40] <andypugh> And if you want to commutate, resolvers win easily.
[02:50:52] <ssi> also it was way more feasible to do analog signal processing to handle resolvers, cause digital stuff was new and expensive and complex
[02:50:55] <ssi> now it's the other way around
[02:51:08] <ssi> now everything is just another pin on an mcu and we'll figure it out in software
[02:51:14] <zeeshan> hehe
[02:51:15] <andypugh> ssi: Resolvers have no mechanical parts. They work in oil, they work underwater.
[02:51:32] <ssi> andypugh: there's a rotor and a stator isn't there?
[02:51:41] <ssi> I mean I know there is in an encoder as well, but it's just the disk that spins
[02:51:54] <ssi> the resolver seems like it'd need slip rings for the rotor
[02:51:55] <andypugh> Yes, but they are non-contacting and brushless
[02:52:06] <ssi> I dunno, I've never had one apart
[02:52:20] <ssi> but I HAVE built encoders from scratch, and they're about the simplest damn things in the world
[02:53:05] <ssi> don't get me wrong, I like resolvers a lot
[02:53:13] <ssi> for the same reason I like film and vinyl
[02:53:19] <zeeshan> encoders seem hard to build
[02:53:21] <ssi> analog == theoretically infinite resolution
[02:53:22] <zeeshan> when you want a lot of counts
[02:53:22] <andypugh> This shows the two parts of resolver:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TS2640N321E64-Brand-New-Tamagawa-BRX-Smartsyn-Resolver-for-Servo-Motor-/221844794989?hash=item33a6faee6d:g:p5oAAOSw6aVUnBgH
[02:53:59] <andypugh> I wouldn’t want to build one
[02:54:22] <ssi> zeeshan: nah they're not hard to build, you just micro-etch a disk with the appropriate number of lines and use appropriately small optos
[02:54:37] <andypugh> But when you can buy one at that price, and have 16 bits of position data from a 7i49 card?
[02:54:47] <ssi> andypugh: more like 12 bits I think :)
[02:54:50] <zeeshan> i need a good reason
[02:54:53] <zeeshan> why resolvers are obselete
[02:54:57] <zeeshan> i dont think cost is a major reason :P
[02:54:59] <zeeshan> sorry !! :P
[02:55:11] <ssi> zeeshan: fine, think what you want
[02:55:20] <andypugh> No, they really are _very_ expensive
[02:55:21] <zeeshan> http://www.heidenhain.us/enews/stories_0411/AUmain.php
[02:55:25] <zeeshan> reading this
[02:55:26] <ssi> as much crap as you give fw for shitting on everything everyone else says, you sure do it a lot :)
[02:57:04] <andypugh> It would be fun to read the Tamagawa version of that article :-)
[02:57:09] <zeeshan> ssi
[02:57:11] <zeeshan> i want a technical reason
[02:57:16] <zeeshan> this article basically says
[02:57:20] <zeeshan> it depends.
[02:57:32] <zeeshan> which means im completely wrong to thing resolvers are obsolete
[02:57:33] <ssi> the article says resolver systems are more complex
[02:57:38] <ssi> complexity == cost
[02:57:45] <zeeshan> fine :P
[02:58:03] <ssi> Accuracy - An encoder will be more accurate than a resolver and its associated conversion process.
[02:58:05] <zeeshan> i think a major reason is this:
[02:58:06] <ssi> that's a false statement
[02:58:09] <ssi> or at best, an incomplete one
[02:58:17] <zeeshan> An encoder provides data with guaranteed signal separation and symmetry at up to the rated speed, and that is all there is. Many encoders are now available with resolutions up to 25 bits, and some are capable of allowing the motors to run at 10,000 rpm with close to this resolution. As a result, an encoder based application will generally have a wider dynamic range capability.
[02:58:26] <andypugh> List price of one of my resolvers is £1500. I didn’t pay that, but to make them truly linear is expensive.
[02:58:43] <zeeshan> so for highspeed machines
[02:58:48] <zeeshan> which are your modern types
[02:58:52] <zeeshan> you really need encoders
[02:59:12] <zeeshan> otherwise you will need a higher rerference signal(whatever that is)
[02:59:12] <zeeshan> :P
[02:59:13] <ssi> bear in mind they're talking about modern absolute serial encoders
[02:59:22] <zeeshan> no
[02:59:28] <zeeshan> they also compare it to incremental
[02:59:34] <zeeshan> saying that resolvers are inherently absolute
[02:59:39] <zeeshan> while encoders can be either
[02:59:39] <andypugh> Resolvers can run as fast as you want too, as long as you sample at least 3x per rev so you don’t get lost.
[02:59:44] <ssi> how many quadrature encoders have you seen that are specified as 25 bit resolution?
[02:59:50] <zeeshan> andypugh: but the thing is the faster your sample
[02:59:53] <zeeshan> the most noise becomes an issue
[02:59:56] <ssi> not noise
[02:59:57] <ssi> bandwidth
[03:00:05] <ssi> that's where the carrier frequency becomes important
[03:00:44] <andypugh> 25 bits of encoder at 10,000 rpm is a _lot_ of encoder counts with quadrature. They are definitely talking serial data encoders there.
[03:00:53] <zeeshan> ill tell you "natural judgement against resolvers"
[03:00:57] <zeeshan> they rely on magnetism
[03:01:03] <ssi> Flexibility – If at some point in the future more performance or positioning accuracy becomes necessary, it will be much easier to upgrade an encoder based system. An encoder application will require only the feedback element to be replaced, and a software change to the drive so that the new line count is accounted for. A resolver change will require reconsideration of the associated converter, supply voltage and frequency, filtering etc, and this may
[03:01:11] <ssi> that part is true
[03:01:13] <ssi> encoder systems are SIMPLER
[03:01:18] <ssi> SIMPLER == more COST EFFECTIVE
[03:01:41] <zeeshan> ssi when you're designing for specifically precision
[03:01:43] <zeeshan> and high speed machinining
[03:01:49] <zeeshan> i really honestly dont think cost is an issue
[03:01:51] <ssi> but resolvers were absolute, extremely high precision references long before encoders could hope to be
[03:01:56] <zeeshan> you want the best hardware possible
[03:02:11] <ssi> and they continue to be so, but the cost of them hasn't declined, whereas encoders are happily following moore's law with the rest of the digital world
[03:02:37] <andypugh> Yes. I couldnt imagine speccing new resolvers for a new serial production project. But eBay resolvers for my own toys? Absolutely.
[03:02:50] <ssi> a modern high count absolute serial encoder is FAR cheaper as a system than a resolver system
[03:03:01] <zeeshan> ssi i dont disagree with you on that!
[03:03:04] <zeeshan> it is definitely cheaper
[03:03:18] <zeeshan> but im saying i dont think cost is a constraint when designing high speed+precision controls
[03:03:33] <ssi> yeah and I'm saying you're still full of shit :)
[03:03:39] <ssi> cost is always a constraint
[03:03:51] <zeeshan> look at dmg machines
[03:03:57] <zeeshan> you'll never find a resolver on their machines
[03:04:09] <ssi> why don't they make their ways out of tungsten?
[03:04:19] <zeeshan> im talking specifically about controls man
[03:04:23] <zeeshan> not the entire machine
[03:04:24] <ssi> don't change the subject
[03:04:28] <zeeshan> lol
[03:04:29] <andypugh> My current build involved me taking a serial encoder off of a motor and fitting a resolver. But I like the 7i49 and I had the resolver and couldn’t figure out the serial encoder.
[03:04:30] <zeeshan> dont get mad
[03:04:31] <zeeshan> fak you!
[03:04:36] <ssi> I'm just saying I don't think cost is a constraint when designing high performance machines
[03:04:42] <ssi> so why not use tungsten for everything
[03:04:46] <ssi> it's heavy, it's hard
[03:04:50] <ssi> seems ideal
[03:05:11] <zeeshan> cost _is_ a constraint when it comes to the entire machine
[03:05:15] <zeeshan> you obviously can't exceed a certain value
[03:05:16] <ssi> cost is a constraint period
[03:05:24] <PetefromTn_> blah blah BLAH blah BLabbety Blah Blab
[03:05:28] <zeeshan> but you'll sacrafice other things in the name of cost
[03:05:31] <zeeshan> when it comes to controls
[03:05:35] <zeeshan> cause they're so crucial
[03:05:36] <ssi> in the modern world, encoders have caught up to what resolvers can do, but for far lower cost
[03:05:46] <andypugh> They still manufacture resolvers, so I assume there is still a market.
[03:05:48] <ssi> so manufacturers use the cheaper option that meets their design goals
[03:06:02] <ssi> you asked fora technical reason why resolvers have fallen out of favor
[03:06:03] <zeeshan> andypugh: it seems like under harsh conditions you want to use a resolver
[03:06:04] <ssi> and I gave youone
[03:06:08] <ssi> but you refuse to hear it
[03:06:27] <zeeshan> relax
[03:06:31] <zeeshan> i can have a difference of opinion
[03:06:38] <ssi> I don't know why you think I'm mad
[03:06:38] <zeeshan> we can settle it in an arm wrestle
[03:06:42] <ssi> I'm not mad, I'm just not wrong :)
[03:06:56] <PetefromTn_> never are
[03:07:02] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[03:07:03] <zeeshan> haha
[03:07:04] <ssi> seldom wrong but never in doubt
[03:07:12] <andypugh> https://xkcd.com/386/
[03:07:19] <ssi> zeeshan: I'm not arm wrestling your hobbit hands!
[03:07:31] <zeeshan> andypugh: rofl
[03:08:14] <ssi> zeeshan: know someting about me: one of my huge pet peeves is people who ask for my opinion and then tell me I'm wrong when I give it
[03:08:15] <andypugh> And on that note, I am going to bed,
[03:08:21] -!- andypugh has quit [Quit: andypugh]
[03:08:51] <ssi> more often than not, two months later they come back and say "hey guess what I figured out!" and proceed to teach me what they refused to hear from me prior
[03:09:08] <ssi> I seem to recall that happening with you more than once :)
[03:09:17] <zeeshan> my mistake for asking for your opinion
[03:09:22] <zeeshan> didn't know it'd turn into this
[03:09:30] <zeeshan> who cares,
[03:09:33] <zeeshan> its a stupid encoder and resolver
[03:09:42] <zeeshan> both are pieces of shit
[03:10:11] <ssi> you're right
[03:10:21] <ssi> all cnc machines use laser interferometry to measure position feedback
[03:10:21] <PetefromTn_> so NOBODY cares about my new toolholders!!!????
[03:10:23] <ssi> because cost isn't a concern
[03:10:25] <ssi> PetefromTn_: nope :D
[03:10:27] <zeeshan> :D
[03:10:31] <PetefromTn_> asses
[03:10:39] <PetefromTn_> I care...
[03:10:45] <ssi> of course you care!
[03:10:48] <PetefromTn_> they're little shiny beauties
[03:10:59] <zeeshan> which tool holders did you get
[03:11:01] <PetefromTn_> and now I can stuff em full of cool tolls
[03:11:03] <PetefromTn_> tools
[03:11:07] <PetefromTn_> Cat40
[03:11:10] <ssi> bunch more ER32 chucks?
[03:11:11] <PetefromTn_> ER32
[03:11:13] <ssi> from cme or whatever?
[03:11:14] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[03:11:17] <ssi> sweet
[03:11:20] <ssi> how many do you have total now
[03:11:22] <PetefromTn_> IT IS
[03:11:28] <PetefromTn_> shit I dunno LOL
[03:11:31] <PetefromTn_> a bunch
[03:11:47] <PetefromTn_> that rack I made under my granit plate is nearly full now
[03:12:13] <PetefromTn_> gonna have to make another plate so I need to buy more holders :D
[03:12:39] <ssi> naw what you need to do is start storing them in your tool carousel!
[03:12:54] <ssi> I have some too
[03:12:54] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0hrO_EIUAEN4IU.jpg:large
[03:13:05] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSDSAQBW0AIMfdZ.jpg:large
[03:13:08] <zeeshan> ssi
[03:13:11] <zeeshan> get your machine running
[03:13:13] <zeeshan> so you can use em!
[03:13:15] <ssi> tryin
[03:13:24] <zeeshan> you making your machine run means i can get mine to run
[03:13:25] <zeeshan> :P
[03:13:34] <ssi> yea you and pete both
[03:13:45] <zeeshan> pete will beat us both
[03:13:46] <ssi> when I get the axes running both yall suckers need to come down here and help me sort out spindle + toolchange
[03:13:46] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[03:13:48] <zeeshan> w/ his teco combination
[03:13:59] <ssi> naw he's stuck on toolchanger / spindle orient
[03:14:05] <ssi> he's waiting for me to climb that mountain
[03:14:10] <PetefromTn_> I'm not stuck
[03:14:17] <ssi> he's been waiting for a year for me to climb that mountain :P
[03:14:19] <zeeshan> isnt the cicinnati drive
[03:14:21] <zeeshan> an induction motor
[03:14:22] <zeeshan> and not a servo
[03:14:23] <PetefromTn_> okay I'm stuck
[03:14:34] <ssi> I don't know what motor is in his cinci
[03:14:41] <ssi> mine is a pm motor,as we already discussed :P
[03:14:46] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_:
[03:14:50] <zeeshan> take a shot of your motor name plate! :P
[03:14:53] <ssi> but his has a very different control, axes, andservo motor
[03:14:58] <PetefromTn_> what motor?
[03:15:02] <zeeshan> the spindl;e
[03:15:03] <ssi> spindle
[03:15:12] <ssi> s/andservo/and spindle/ ffs
[03:15:19] <PetefromTn_> its a BITCH to get to it...
[03:15:27] <zeeshan> :/
[03:15:30] <PetefromTn_> lemme see
[03:15:36] <PetefromTn_> I think I have a pic somewheres
[03:15:37] <ssi> PetefromTn_: if yours is an induction motor, me solving mine might not help you
[03:15:48] <ssi> I'm gonna run grab some dinner I'll be back on in a few
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[04:02:49] <ssi> damn the party stops when I leave huh
[04:04:12] <jdh> yep
[04:04:24] <jdh> crying over their quad encoders
[04:04:29] <ssi> :)
[04:04:36] <zeeshan> your mom is a triple encoder.
[04:04:39] <zeeshan> gnite! :P
[04:04:43] <ssi> I'd like to play with absolute encoders
[04:04:45] <ssi> night zee
[04:04:53] <zeeshan> pete never gave us a photo
[04:04:56] <zeeshan> just bounced
[04:04:59] <ssi> zeeshan: I bought a bunch of snapon tools this week
[04:05:05] <zeeshan> lucky
[04:05:06] <zeeshan> which ones?
[04:05:19] <jdh> from a mechanic with a drinking problem?
[04:05:21] <Wolf_> all the ones some furry thing hates?
[04:05:24] <ssi> 1/4 drive sockets; set of inch semi-deeps, set of metric shallow and metric deep
[04:05:34] <zeeshan> nice
[04:05:37] <ssi> set of 1/4 wobble extensions
[04:06:01] <ssi> I'm gonna try to slowly replace my whole aicraft toolbox with snapon stuff
[04:06:15] <zeeshan> me too!
[04:06:19] <zeeshan> or matco tools
[04:06:26] <zeeshan> first thing i want is new ratchets
[04:06:31] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSDeYDbUcAAX24E.jpg:large
[04:06:37] <ssi> I've honestly never worked with matco stuff
[04:06:56] <zeeshan> hey you got an o2 removal socket
[04:06:57] <zeeshan> nice :)
[04:07:01] <jdh> a friend bought a loaded snapon toolbox from a guy
[04:07:03] <zeeshan> when i got one
[04:07:06] <zeeshan> i realized how awesome they are!
[04:07:09] <ssi> lol yeah it works well as a spark plug socket on lycoming
[04:07:19] <jdh> who needed cash from previous drinking issues
[04:07:24] <zeeshan> jdh $5?
[04:07:29] <ssi> jdh: man I'd love to do that sometime
[04:07:42] <jdh> $1500 I thikn
[04:07:42] <ssi> even though it'd prolly be full up with car bullshit :)
[04:07:56] <jdh> he's a car guy anyway
[04:08:21] <ssi> I'm getting to where I have a pretty nice complement of specialty aicraft tools
[04:08:34] <zeeshan> wow thats cheap
[04:08:38] <ssi> I'm missing a couple things though; I don't have my own compression tester or mag timer
[04:08:42] <ssi> and I don't own a set of jacks
[04:08:57] <ssi> good jacks are stupid expensive though
[04:09:05] <zeeshan> 250~
[04:09:14] <ssi> try 4000
[04:09:18] <zeeshan> wat
[04:09:19] <ssi> http://www.skygeek.com/tronair-02-1248c0112-jack-tripod-hyd-12ton.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_content=tronair-02-1248c0112-jack-tripod-hyd-12ton&utm_campaign=froogle&gclid=CK25rpye2sgCFQaTaQodZgYN_g
[04:09:21] <zeeshan> what kind of gold jack is this
[04:09:23] <ssi> 4600
[04:09:26] <ssi> lol
[04:09:29] <ssi> those are tall ones though
[04:09:30] <zeeshan> whats this garbage
[04:09:30] <zeeshan> lol
[04:09:31] <ssi> I don't need anything that big
[04:09:34] <Wolf_> airplane jack, not car
[04:09:35] <zeeshan> ive never seen this before
[04:09:37] <zeeshan> oh
[04:09:50] <zeeshan> i wouldnt pay $4600 for that
[04:09:53] <zeeshan> looks cheaply made
[04:09:57] <ssi> they're not
[04:09:59] <ssi> they're really beefy
[04:10:06] <ssi> that's just a huge one, it's 4' tall compressed
[04:10:07] <jdh> trying to run speedtest on this crappy motel wifi and it has 752ms ping
[04:10:49] <ssi> gross
[04:12:05] <jdh> $50/nigt and no bugs
[04:17:55] <XXCoder> still chatting I see heh
[04:18:12] <CaptHindsight> I can easily make a better jack for more money
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[05:20:27] <Contract_Pilot> sop
[05:51:56] <renesis> i machined a thing with jog
[05:52:03] * renesis bad
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[06:01:05] <XXCoder> bad renesis! no treat!
[06:01:17] <XXCoder> jeez some stuff is weird
[06:01:54] <XXCoder> I had to loosen that cable thingy so I can rotate console enough to reach cables and remove em
[06:02:05] <XXCoder> so I can replace van console lights
[06:02:18] <XXCoder> 4 burned out across time so nearly unreadable in nights lol
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[06:30:24] <XXCoder> nice and bright. only one was connected wrong way, just rotated lol
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[06:52:58] <Deejay> moin
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[06:54:44] <XXCoder> yo
[06:54:58] <XXCoder> curious whats you do Deejay
[06:55:09] <Deejay> hi XXCoder
[06:55:22] <Deejay> server is too slow ;)
[06:55:38] <Deejay> if you mean the host change thingi
[06:56:19] <XXCoder> oh. no, I means whats you do at work
[06:59:16] <Deejay> a lot of different things ;)
[06:59:22] <Deejay> cnc stuff is only hobby for me
[07:00:55] <Deejay> development of electronic stuff on the one side and farm business on the other
[07:01:44] <XXCoder> nice
[07:02:02] <XXCoder> I do work as cnc machinist AND has cnc router as hobby
[07:02:07] <Wolf_> farm business = little of everything then
[07:02:36] <Deejay> agriculture only, no animals ;)
[07:03:13] <Wolf_> meant more so to keep things running, welding, mechanical, electrical…
[07:03:23] <Deejay> yes, indeed
[07:05:44] <XXCoder> yeah
[07:06:21] <Deejay> sometimes it sucks ;) if things break and need repair
[07:06:45] <Wolf_> yup, usually breaks when you need it right now
[07:06:50] <XXCoder> I bet cnc mill is great resource for farm
[07:06:51] <Deejay> of course
[07:06:52] <XXCoder> making parts
[07:07:10] <Deejay> hehe yeah, in some cases
[07:07:40] <Deejay> but sometimes it easier/faster/cheaper to buy original spare parts ;)
[07:07:45] <XXCoder> indeed
[07:07:55] <Wolf_> I find its usually something major or stupid small thing, like hydraulic fitting buried behind 10 other things
[07:09:15] <Deejay> yep
[07:09:49] <Deejay> you have to work hours to reach the broken part ;)
[07:09:57] <Deejay> and then its only a broken sealing for a few cents
[07:10:13] <XXCoder> or find a way to access 4th dimension lol
[07:10:22] <Praesmeodymium> sounds like the head gasket on the car 3000$ in labor for a maybe 100$ part
[07:10:41] <Wolf_> like that but worse lol
[07:11:03] <XXCoder> Praesmeodymium: if you has cnc router you can make gaskets cheaop
[07:11:05] <Deejay> hehe
[07:11:12] <XXCoder> but labor is still massive
[07:11:33] <XXCoder> Praesmeodymium: laser'd be better for it though
[07:12:08] <Wolf_> even more fun when you pretty much need a shop on wheels to come to you to get something fixed
[07:12:35] <Praesmeodymium> yeah, lasering some stuff requires better ventilation than I have going on atm, i need to fix that shit before I try cutting anymore flouropolymer film
[07:13:42] <Wolf_> I think as some point I need to get a cnc laser to play with
[07:14:02] <XXCoder> theres $200 ones on aliexress. TINY workspace though
[07:14:12] <XXCoder> but enough to test and learn
[07:14:41] <Wolf_> yeah :/ I think 2’x4’ would be small as I would go
[07:14:47] <Wolf_> or 2x3
[07:14:59] <XXCoder> that'd be good size yeah
[07:15:01] <Praesmeodymium> those 2w things?
[07:16:00] <XXCoder> just found $75 one lol
[07:16:17] <Praesmeodymium> I am making a ~850x850 laser diode based cutter, well I want to do engraving with it, but I also have shitty little co2
[07:16:38] <Praesmeodymium> 32"x32"
[07:16:57] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Mini-CNC-laser-engraving-machine-mini-desktop-DIY-Mini-engraving-machine-finished-self-made-frame/32428034598.html
[07:17:49] <Praesmeodymium> nice 120$ for a frame and the guts of 2 cboxes
[07:17:54] <Praesmeodymium> xboxes*
[07:18:29] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/500MW-laser-laser-engraving-machine-diy-marking-machine-cnc-laser-engrave-machine-advanced-toys/32368572424.html
[07:18:33] <Praesmeodymium> if it uses the xbox sled than it can actually get a good spot size
[07:18:53] <XXCoder> workspace of 17x20cm
[07:19:11] <XXCoder> less than 8 inch which is goos for few small engraves
[07:19:33] <XXCoder> it could be reused with MUCH larger frame
[07:20:31] <Praesmeodymium> yeah just ned to buy the vslot
[07:21:47] <Praesmeodymium> my vslot should be here monday
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[09:27:10] <Jymmm> malcom2073_:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxcftjJ39BU
[09:27:39] <XXCoder> yo
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[09:32:27] <Jymmm> ho
[09:33:01] <XXCoder> hi
[09:34:53] <XXCoder> heh once saw one forum thread where theres 3 possibilities to change a word - addition of one charactor or removal of one charactor or change one
[09:35:06] <XXCoder> that thread went all over
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[09:35:33] <XXCoder> it was at 3 charactors at beginning, and went all over the sizes, I think it maxed at 7 something
[09:35:38] <XXCoder> all legit words
[09:43:35] <XXCoder> Jymmm: er16 is around 1/2 inch diameter right?
[09:44:19] <archivist> hint 16
[09:44:31] <XXCoder> ag mm
[09:44:41] <XXCoder> .63 inch approx
[09:44:42] <XXCoder> yeah
[09:46:05] <Wolf_> putting a er16 next to a er32 make it look small
[09:49:05] * archivist hides his little ER11s
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[09:51:34] <XXCoder> er1
[09:58:59] <XXCoder> er-10
[10:02:31] <jthornton> er
[10:03:23] <XXCoder> everyone already has er zero
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[11:12:40] <jthornton> if 0 matches 6 then 6 is 1 and I need to find the match for 6 which is now 1
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[11:36:10] <jthornton> finally got it to sort :)
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[11:37:22] <XXCoder> working on that gcode gen?
[11:41:21] <jthornton> yea, just got the test dxf to convert to g code finally...
[11:41:30] <XXCoder> nice
[11:42:20] <jthornton> just need to code for backwards arcs and I think I'm GTG
[11:48:27] <jthornton> crap, I just broke it again
[11:49:50] <Sync> ssi: wat?
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[12:03:34] <jthornton> now for some more complicated dxf files :)
[12:10:52] <jthornton> http://ibin.co/2K95bemSRUAG
[12:11:04] <jthornton> hot damn
[12:12:47] <malcom2073_> Awesome
[12:13:13] <malcom2073_> Can it do DXF's with multiple polygons instead of just one?
[12:13:23] <jthornton> aye. I'm stoked for sure
[12:13:31] <jthornton> polygon?
[12:13:39] <XXCoder> a shape flat sides
[12:13:54] <malcom2073_> Mutliple shapes
[12:14:00] <XXCoder> minium 3 sides, no max
[12:14:05] <malcom2073_> Multiple contours rather
[12:14:59] <jthornton> each contour at this point would need to be in a separate layer or file
[12:15:12] <jthornton> well if the end points match then yes
[12:15:30] <malcom2073_> Hmm, ok
[12:16:00] <jthornton> LOL, I just got it to work this morning after several days of trying to finger out the sort
[12:18:13] <jthornton> did you mean this?
http://ibin.co/2K97xm6DtP4g
[12:24:08] <malcom2073_> Nah this:
http://www.industry.siemens.com/topics/global/en/cnc4you/tips_and_tricks/technology-in-detail/PublishingImages/cad-reader-cnc.jpg
[12:27:14] <jthornton> I've not got past a single profile, that is future perhaps
[12:28:41] <malcom2073_> Alright :) Just wondering
[12:29:28] <jthornton> not sure how I'd want to handle that, for now this is for my plasma cutter
[12:29:49] <jthornton> but I need to be able to cut multiple entities some how
[12:35:20] <Jymmm> stacked?
[12:35:31] <Jymmm> or you mean nested
[12:35:32] <Jymmm> ?
[12:36:07] <jthornton> well for plasma you can't cut stacked profiles...
[12:36:24] <jthornton> unless I misunderstand your question
[12:36:56] <Jymmm> "multiple entities" = like a top and bottom plate/fixture sorta thing?
[12:37:10] <XXCoder> no, I guess just more than single shape
[12:37:12] <jthornton> multiple entities like a bunch of holes
[12:37:15] <XXCoder> for example 4 of same shapes
[12:37:23] <XXCoder> or holes yeah
[12:38:09] <Jymmm> Ok, I guess I'm not understanding the difficulty/challenge here
[12:38:48] <jthornton> try to code it and you will understand
[12:43:38] <Jymmm> dxf2gcode doesn't like multiple objects or something?
[12:44:35] <XXCoder> jthornton: I made ldrdat2obj
[12:44:39] <XXCoder> so yea lol
[12:45:20] <jthornton> you know for sure then
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[12:46:07] <XXCoder> it converts ldraw model file into obj, well ldraw parts is weird, it has subparts and so on
[12:46:13] <XXCoder> it means tons of matrix transforms
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[12:59:53] <jthornton> I just ran the converter from python :)
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[13:09:10] <Tom_itx> have you run the code from the coverter?
[13:10:52] <jthornton> yes
[13:12:25] <Tom_itx> nice
[13:16:45] <jthornton> it's fast too
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[14:19:34] <maxcnc> Hi Folks i got a small problem onlatency test i got a bunch of pc out of stock and did a tet today
[14:19:55] <maxcnc> happy as i where with numbers of jitter at 6500
[14:20:24] <maxcnc> i did a testmashine hook up and i got realtime erors even at 25000
[14:21:14] <maxcnc> the test has been runing at network and traffic for 30min with no higher then 6200
[14:21:51] <maxcnc> the mashine became realtimeerror at starting the nc code imadetly
[14:22:13] <maxcnc> with 40000 it works perfect
[14:23:16] <maxcnc> Now my Question the small numbers under last saying around 32000 but jitter stays below 6500
[14:23:28] <maxcnc> so is there a bug in 2.8 master
[14:24:56] <maxcnc> i testet this on older pc with mashines and the latest is below the jitter as i expected to be
[14:25:08] <maxcnc> Whear behavier
[14:25:32] <Tom_itx> could be hardware too, reseat the memory, do a memory test etc
[14:25:35] <Tom_itx> try again
[14:25:45] <maxcnc> PCW ordert 4 7i76e today
[14:25:46] <Tom_itx> reseat all the connectors
[14:26:40] <maxcnc> reseat means ?
[14:27:03] <archivist> red herring
[14:27:10] <Tom_itx> unplug and replug
[14:27:17] <CaptHindsight> unplug, then plug back in
[14:27:25] <maxcnc> ok Thanks
[14:28:00] <maxcnc> monday today im done with 52 out of 60 sheeds expected on plasma cutter done
[14:31:04] <maxcnc> i am off have a nice day in the USA
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[14:33:00] <CaptHindsight> do people expect pre-releases to be bug free?
[14:33:19] <Tom_itx> yes
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[14:33:36] <Tom_itx> it's out there... it MUST work
[14:35:01] <CaptHindsight> my favorite is when they build from source and complain about it doesn't work right
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[15:09:35] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLsJDELd4lo
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[15:26:13] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: poke
[15:26:21] <PetefromTn_> yo
[15:26:36] <tiwake> PetefromTn_!
[15:26:47] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: was going to ask you a bunch of stuff about anodizing
[15:27:08] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: whatcha using for an aluminum cleaner?
[15:27:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah I am not sure I am the best person to be asking questions of LOL
[15:27:42] <PetefromTn_> but I bought most of my stuff from caswell plating
[15:27:52] <tiwake> ok
[15:28:25] <tiwake> you using nickel acetate sealing bath? or just boiling water?
[15:29:02] <tiwake> I cant decide which I want to do
[15:29:27] <archivist> also depends if you are colouring I think
[15:29:33] <tiwake> yeah
[15:29:44] <tiwake> also changes surface hardness
[15:29:45] <tiwake> etc.
[15:30:29] <tiwake> I think I've read nickel acetate gives it a little better color shine, or something
[15:31:26] <CaptHindsight> there are lots of cleaners , etchants, sealers available for the industry but they are difficult to purchase in small volumes
[15:32:00] <tiwake> that too :-/
[15:32:05] <CaptHindsight> you're probably just best off buying from casewell until you understand how it all works and get comfortable
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[15:32:39] <CaptHindsight> then you can find other sources
[15:36:47] <tiwake> do you have to use titanium for suspending the parts in the acid bath? why not 304 or 316 stainless steel?
[15:40:01] <SpeedEvil> Stainless isn't quite.
[15:40:13] <SpeedEvil> Iron can leach out in various different conditions.
[15:40:23] <SpeedEvil> Titanium is a lot harder to get iron to leach from.
[15:41:00] <PetefromTn_> yeah sorry man I had a phone call
[15:41:17] <PetefromTn_> yes I do use the nickel acetate sealing bath heated
[15:41:55] <PetefromTn_> I use their aluminum cleaner degreaser bath as the first step AFTER I clean with dawn very thoroughly in the sink LOL
[15:42:32] <PetefromTn_> I use titanium wire for suspending the parts in the anodize bath
[15:42:40] <CaptHindsight> tiwake:
http://www.finishing.com/152/90.shtml
[15:42:46] <tiwake> how about the material used for the plate?
[15:42:58] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: spend a week reading over all the discussions on anodizing
[15:43:05] <PetefromTn_> my anode plates are 6061 1/4 inch plate scrap pieces
[15:43:15] <tiwake> ok
[15:43:35] <CaptHindsight> they cover just about everything and why certain materials and processes work better than others
[15:43:46] <PetefromTn_> I am STILL getting the occasional blemished part here tho and it is FREAKING INFURIATING!!
[15:43:58] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: yeah, I started reading that place... pretty much all day yesterday
[15:44:26] <Sync> I like anodizing Ti, it is so easy :D
[15:44:28] <tiwake> but I also like IRC as a source of information, so I thought I'd bother PetefromTn_
[15:44:58] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: much has to do with how good a cook you are, and how well you learn
[15:45:05] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: thoughts on hard anodizing?
[15:45:34] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: well, I'm a pretty good cook I think.. lol... learned from my dad who is a professional caterer
[15:45:42] <PetefromTn_> tiwake honestly man Captainhindsight is the expert here in all of this
[15:45:49] <CaptHindsight> some people fail miserably while others do well with the same chems and tools
[15:45:56] <PetefromTn_> I am just a hack working out of my garage LOL
[15:46:08] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: join the club XD
[15:46:24] <PetefromTn_> to give you an idea
[15:46:37] <PetefromTn_> if I just have one or two or even three to anodize I do it here
[15:46:53] <PetefromTn_> any more than that I take a drive to knoxville and let the pros handle it
[15:47:43] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: you'll learn a lot from just trying some simple parts and the chems from Casewell
[15:47:51] <tiwake> yeah
[15:48:13] <tiwake> tomorrow I'm going out to costco to get a bunch of baking soda XD
[15:48:23] <tiwake> and distilled water
[15:48:30] <CaptHindsight> they charge 10X the usual price but unless you're really going to make lots of parts you might end up with surplus chems
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[15:49:04] <tiwake> well
[15:49:05] <PetefromTn_> honestly I have extra from the purchase from caswell for awhile and I did not buy much LOL
[15:49:30] <CaptHindsight> chem suppliers want to sell by the 400lb drum or 50lb sack
[15:50:01] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: I wish thats how I could buy ammonium perchlorate
[15:51:02] <CaptHindsight> I just paid $200 for 8lbs of something that I can get 400lbs @$1200 since I'm not sure how much I'm going to really need
[15:51:40] <tiwake> yeah
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[15:54:31] <tiwake> alright, time to buy a bunch of stuff
[15:58:56] <tiwake> can I put the dye in my printer?
[15:58:58] <tiwake> XD
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[16:04:16] <CaptHindsight> tiwake:
http://www.firefox-fx.com/ChemA.htm < drum quan don't require an ATF permit
[16:04:30] <CaptHindsight> < 1 drum
[16:04:43] <MrSunshine> damn mdf dust realy wrecks hawok on the body ...
[16:04:46] <Erant> I'm trying to tune my servos, but for some reason I'm always left with a +/- 10 encoder count jitter. Any thoughts?
[16:05:07] <Erant> As in, when the servo's up to speed, the error swings between -10 and +10.
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[16:07:13] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: thats $56 for 5lbs?
[16:07:36] <tiwake> assuming I'm reading that correctly
[16:08:25] <CaptHindsight> they have several grades and granular sizes
[16:08:37] <tiwake> ah I just scrolled down and noticed
[16:08:54] <CaptHindsight> Ammonium Perchlorate - granular, 600 micron $56.10 for 5lbs
[16:09:19] <tiwake> looks like 200 micron is the best deal
[16:10:04] <CaptHindsight> probably 100x higher at Sigma
[16:10:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.skylighter.com/ammonium-perchlorate-200-micron.htm
[16:10:36] <tiwake> enh
[16:10:42] <tiwake> only 10x more expensive
[16:10:43] <tiwake> lol
[16:11:14] <tiwake> ammonium perchlorate is badass
[16:11:21] <CaptHindsight> 1kg $199
[16:11:25] <Erant> tiwake: Whatcha anodizing?
[16:11:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sial/208507?lang=en®ion=US
[16:11:41] <Erant> I want to anodize some parts once I can actually make chips.
[16:12:28] <tiwake> Erant: some aluminum shotglasses I made a while back, and probably some small runs of various different colors for one of my customers I make parts for
[16:15:22] <Erant> Oooh, aluminum shotglasses... Does the anodizing make them foodgrade?
[16:15:56] <tiwake> you can buy bare aluminum pots and stuff, why would anodizing change that?
[16:16:25] <CaptHindsight> aluminum foil
[16:16:25] <Erant> Yeah, I guess. Just wasn't sure if the dye was nasty in any way.
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[16:16:34] <PetefromTn_> jeez man I am really getting annoyed trying to find suitable motors and drives for this freakin' lathe for reasonable prices....
[16:16:42] <tiwake> neh
[16:16:53] <Erant> PetefromTn_: What size of servo do you need?
[16:17:11] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: spend the money on something else, then you'll find the deal on the motors and drives, never fails :)
[16:17:14] <PetefromTn_> I need basically what amounts to a nema 43 750 AC servo and drive setup
[16:17:22] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah I know right...
[16:17:25] <Erant> Ah, nm. :P
[16:17:46] <Erant> I had some 200W servos on eBay that were an excellent deal, but that obviously wouldn't fit you.
[16:17:56] <PetefromTn_> been going back and forth with a couple dealers now and they are all selling the same chinese shit and think they have some gold plated parts there..
[16:18:11] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: what power motors do you need and what rpm?
[16:18:20] <CaptHindsight> 750w?
[16:18:32] <PetefromTn_> just said 750 watt 2.4nm 2500-3kROM
[16:18:34] <PetefromTn_> RPM
[16:18:47] <tiwake> nanometer?
[16:18:56] <PetefromTn_> newton meter
[16:19:04] <CaptHindsight> you expect me to read everything in here? shhess
[16:19:09] <tiwake> lol
[16:19:16] <PetefromTn_> Sorry man I am currently pissed
[16:19:27] <tiwake> move it to the bathroom?
[16:19:37] <tiwake> XD
[16:19:51] <tiwake> /wisecracks
[16:19:55] <PetefromTn_> finally got the money to buy the two damn axes and all the deals and specials are gone
[16:20:15] <JT-Shop> patience grasshopper
[16:20:19] <Erant> PetefromTn_: You in a rush? I'd just sit tight for a bit maybe.
[16:20:25] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: whats the best you've found so far?
[16:20:37] <PetefromTn_> I have been waiting for this for a good long whille now I am tired of waiting..
[16:20:58] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight well this deal...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Servo-Motor-and-Drive-750W-1-axis-kit-CNC-router-mill-mach3-NEW-Ref-0375-/161848959503?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33421%26meid%3Da0fe613038a84f808a43f385c1d6ebbb%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D161848959794&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=sVGqapyWwBhEXG9Dn%252FVbkQ86YWU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
[16:21:13] <PetefromTn_> it was a sale that DMM had a week or two ago
[16:21:34] <PetefromTn_> so I called thier US distributor and he wants over $200 more for the same deal now.
[16:21:52] <PetefromTn_> I have been going back and forth with him trying to get the same deal or at least close
[16:22:07] <PetefromTn_> It's just a bunch of bullshit
[16:22:20] <Erant> Is the CA place not willing to ship to the US, bypass that guy?
[16:22:30] <JT-Shop> on a happy note my DXF to G code converter works now :)
[16:22:46] <PetefromTn_> what really annoys me is that there are other deals similar much cheaper direct from china all over the fleabay
[16:23:02] <JT-Shop> only took 9 days to figure out the algorithm and learn golang
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[16:23:03] <Erant> But then... China...
[16:23:06] <PetefromTn_> at the end of the day they are all selling chinese motors and drives
[16:23:25] <PetefromTn_> hell my Teco's are chinese motors and drives
[16:23:41] <Erant> I find it sort of hit-n-miss
[16:23:55] <PetefromTn_> what is?
[16:24:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-1kW-AC-servo-motor-drive-complete-set-with-3M-cables-4Nm-2500rpm-2500ppr-CNC-/201345089277 from China but a bit more power
[16:24:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is what I am talking about... they are all over the ebay
[16:24:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-servo-motor-drive-Kit-1ph-220V-80mm-4NM-1kW-2500RPM-4-4A-3M-Cable-/121691953583
[16:25:04] <PetefromTn_> I don't MIND paying a bit more for a US based seller but they are a bit crazy
[16:25:21] <CaptHindsight> yeah, have to find someone that already imports them
[16:25:38] <PetefromTn_> don't HAVE to
[16:26:04] <tiwake> well
[16:26:35] <PetefromTn_> that's a deep subject man
[16:26:39] <tiwake> if you want a distributor in USA to have a convenient place to go to, should issues pop up
[16:26:45] <tiwake> donno
[16:26:55] <tiwake> I wouldent count on it
[16:27:03] <MrSunshine> hmm what is the reason that its always 100mm hosing or for dust extractor systems ?
[16:27:20] <MrSunshine> is it just the fan design or is it harder to make something suck good at like 50mm ? =)
[16:31:32] <Jymmm> 4" has volume to it, though it still can have resistances depending in what ducting you use.
[16:31:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MITSUBISHI-AC-SERVO-MOTOR-1-KW-1019908-MODEL-HC-SFS102-NEW-IN-BOX-/252132856533 $125 and in Tenn
[16:31:51] <CaptHindsight> too bad they don't have 2
[16:32:05] <SpeedEvil> http://www.banggood.com/6-In-1-Multi-Metal-Mini-Wood-Lathe-Motorized-Jig-saw-Grinder-Driller-p-934309.html
[16:32:08] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: Sometimes it's recommended to use 6" ducting just due to the resistance
[16:32:12] <SpeedEvil> The easy-bake oven of machine tools.
[16:32:15] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how many do you want?
[16:32:27] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: 4" vent hole, but 6" duct, especially for long runs
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[16:33:00] <MrSunshine> not very long in my shop tho... nee dto build some kind of dust extraction with some grunt in it for the cnc :/
[16:33:04] <MrSunshine> im dying out there
[16:33:04] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight I honestly wish to purchase an axis system complete with motor, drives, and cables. I need two axes
[16:33:15] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: and less chance of chunks getting stuck =)
[16:33:55] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: will you have any chunks?
[16:34:05] <MrSunshine> might be some small ones from the cnc
[16:34:36] <MrSunshine> the central vac kits are kinda awesome . .comes with everything you need .. but they are 50mm
[16:34:42] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: Why nt grab a lil portable dust collector
[16:35:01] <MrSunshine> i want the frekkin vacuums and everything out of the shop on the outside
[16:35:05] <MrSunshine> and i want the volume
[16:35:21] <MrSunshine> my shop has like 5m2 of floor area
[16:35:34] <Jymmm> build a doghouse on the outside
[16:35:36] <MrSunshine> and jumping over vacs and stuff ive grown very tired of
[16:35:50] <Jymmm> use something like this
http://www.harborfreight.com/13-gallon-industrial-portable-dust-collector-31810.html
[16:39:08] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: hangs on wall
http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-HP-Wall-Hanging-Dust-Collector/G0710
[16:39:24] <MrSunshine> 1hp has no grunt :P
[16:39:32] <MrSunshine> and bigger is way to expensive :/
[16:40:00] <Jymmm> Fine, EAT DUST =)
[16:40:05] <MrSunshine> haha :P
[16:40:26] <MrSunshine> got a like 1 hp dust collector and it has to be like pushed to the floor to suck anything up
[16:40:29] <PetefromTn_> hey I like that wall mounted one..
[16:41:50] <PetefromTn_> http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-1-2-HP-Dust-Collector/G1028Z2 I used to use two of these setup in tandem for my old wood shop before I went all metalworking machines
[16:42:03] <MrSunshine> everything is so cheap in america
[16:42:14] <MrSunshine> in sweden .. add double the amount from what you pay for stuff :/
[16:43:26] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: That's what you get for introducing lutefisk to the world! PAY BACK IS A BITCH AINT IT!
[16:43:36] <MrSunshine> lutefisk is the bomb!
[16:43:39] <MrSunshine> i love that stuff
[16:43:54] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: Great, pay double biotch! =)
[16:44:40] <MrSunshine> :P
[16:45:54] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: You'ld have to pay TRIPLE if it wasn't for the Swedish Bikini Team ;)
[16:53:52] <CaptHindsight> waddah yah think, China Vise?
https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/tls/5249497769.html "huge milling vise, still in the box. It has 8" jaws. It's very heavy."
[16:55:51] <PetefromTn_> probably china vise
[16:56:30] <CaptHindsight> Kurt, Palmgren etc all cast their names on the top
[16:57:15] <PetefromTn_> on top?
[16:57:50] <PetefromTn_> mine is cast on bottom and has metal nameplates affixed to the sides of the movable jaws
[17:00:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kurtworkholding.com/images/D675.jpg for these styles
[17:00:40] <PetefromTn_> mine is a D688 but I have never personally seen a kurt with name on top
[17:01:54] <CaptHindsight> maybe just curt or kert :) from their chinese affiliate
[17:02:27] <PetefromTn_> hehe maybe
[17:02:36] <t12> lol @ kert
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[17:31:38] <PetefromTn_> BBL
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[17:33:58] <Erant> Ugh, great, my servos lost their settings.
[17:34:45] <malcom2073_> ? Like the drives?
[17:34:51] <zeeshan> ??
[17:37:16] <malcom2073_> Damnit man, elaborate! Inquiring minds want to know! :P
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[17:40:42] <zeeshan> i heard even on my drive
[17:40:48] <zeeshan> there are settings in the "eprom"
[17:40:52] <zeeshan> and you should always back it up
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[17:41:04] <ssi> have you tried rebooting your servo drives? :D
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[17:50:44] <zeeshan> hi ssi
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[17:51:01] <zeeshan> power your spindle drive!
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[18:09:19] <Erant> Whoops, sorry.
[18:09:39] <Erant> Yeah, they lost their tuning, and the calibration
[18:09:50] <Erant> But they were pretty f'ed up in general for some reason.
[18:10:03] <Erant> Current foldback faults, position tracking was all weird.
[18:10:19] <Erant> Had to factory default and get the settings from my spare not-yet-installed Z axis board.
[18:10:36] <Erant> Works fine now... Have to re-tune, but I was going to do that anyway
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[18:11:31] <Erant> There's settings in the EEPROM for sure, PID tuning and the calibration.
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[18:17:54] <zeeshan> man im reading thru this manual
[18:17:59] <zeeshan> and i cant find anything about current limiting!
[18:18:00] <zeeshan> WTF!
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[18:21:34] <Erant> zeeshan: What drive is this?
[18:21:42] <zeeshan> a06b-6044-h010
[18:21:47] <Erant> Vendor?
[18:21:49] <zeeshan> fanuc
[18:22:04] <Erant> I have some really nice Applied Motion ones. Come with a tuning tool, everything's really easy.
[18:22:11] <zeeshan> the thing is
[18:22:15] <zeeshan> this is a 20hp drive
[18:22:20] <zeeshan> w/ a built in orientation board
[18:22:21] <Erant> Holy f'.
[18:22:22] <zeeshan> id like to use it if i can
[18:22:30] <zeeshan> its hard to find a replacement by others for it
[18:22:36] <zeeshan> i'd have to spend a lot of money to get a replacement
[18:23:01] <zeeshan> the 3hp servo drives i see a current limit pot
[18:23:04] <zeeshan> hm
[18:23:19] <Erant> Have you tried asking Fanuc for a manual?
[18:23:24] <zeeshan> i have the manual
[18:23:27] <zeeshan> but i dont see a mention of it
[18:23:27] <Erant> Ah
[18:24:55] <zeeshan> fanuc seems to use 15v power supply too..
[18:24:56] <zeeshan> hmm
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[18:28:27] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/rwATOfn.jpg
[18:28:30] <zeeshan> why is this power supply so huge?
[18:28:34] <zeeshan> the specs say:
[18:28:59] <zeeshan> 5v rail 11A, 24v rail 3A, +15v rail 0.3A, -15v rail 0.3A
[18:29:11] <zeeshan> is it just cause it's old? :P
[18:29:17] <zeeshan> now days you can buy tiny din rail mounted ones
[18:29:56] <archivist> what on earth are they using 11A of 5v volts for!
[18:30:43] <zeeshan> not sure
[18:30:44] <zeeshan> lol
[18:30:46] <Erant> Components have gotten smaller, and this probably isn't a switching power supply, so.
[18:31:02] <zeeshan> i should be working on my rx7
[18:31:05] <zeeshan> but the fanuc stuff is interesting
[18:31:28] <zeeshan> i want to document every wire going to everything
[18:31:29] <archivist> dont need no rusty car play with real toys
[18:31:32] <zeeshan> so i can upgrade
[18:31:39] <zeeshan> to modern stuff and get rid of these trhings
[18:31:48] <zeeshan> i need to fit everything in a 4'x2' cabinet
[18:31:54] <zeeshan> x 12" max
[18:48:39] <Sync> bah
[18:48:47] <Sync> damn micromaster doesn't want to talk
[18:51:53] <Erant> Does the RS422 interface on the 5i25 that's meant for expansion boards work as a generic RS422 interface?
[18:52:16] <Erant> Or rather, the one that's broken out onto like the 7i78.
[18:52:50] <anomynous_> usa needs to start use metric system also. :)
[18:55:08] <anomynous_> hmm. maybe they just build 25.4 times bigger houses in europe? And in countries where decimal dot is decimal comma they make 25 times bigger, 4 times. Or something.
[18:55:10] <anomynous_> does it make sense?
[18:56:04] <anomynous_> I guess not.
[18:56:45] <archivist> usa already uses it, the SI system :)
[18:57:09] <anomynous_> why do they use inches and feet and whatever then
[18:59:38] <anomynous_> i know pound is supposed to be based on kilogram, but isn't that kind of the same as saying that 1 is actually 1.1, and then say "here you are. n*1.1 cookies for you."
[19:00:11] <archivist> also the car companies are sneaking in metric but not telling the users
[19:00:29] <anomynous_> metric screws? ;D
[19:00:55] <archivist> yer in the engines made abroad
[19:00:59] <roycroft> the us officially adopted metric measurements in the 1870s, and then again in the 1970s
[19:01:20] <roycroft> perhaps in the 2070s average americans will actually start using them
[19:01:57] <anomynous_> how many inches are a feet?
[19:02:05] <anomynous_> and feet are a mile? if thats how it goes
[19:03:24] <anomynous_> i heard an argument for using base 12 for calculations that it has more factors than ten ;D So it more often makes nice numbers
[19:04:05] <roycroft> one can use fractional measurements with the si system
[19:04:14] <roycroft> it's not a case of fractional vs. decimal
[19:04:40] <roycroft> i could make a meter stick that has gradations at 1/2m, 1/4m, 1/8m, 1/16m, etc.
[19:05:02] <archivist> or decimeter
[19:05:20] <anomynous_> :|
[19:05:38] <anomynous_> but that'd be cool. It's like a natural way of counting isnt it
[19:05:43] <roycroft> conversely, i have an engineer's tape that i use for civil measurements (i design/build fiber optic outside plants)
[19:05:52] <roycroft> and the engineer's tape is divided into feet and 1/10 feet
[19:05:59] <anomynous_> long. pretty long. average. short. very short.
[19:06:00] <anomynous_> :D
[19:06:22] <roycroft> 583.4 feet is a standard measurement in civil engineering
[19:06:48] <archivist> surveyors chain is fun
[19:07:24] <pcw_home> Erant: RS-422 is just an electrical interface spec, the 5I25 can have various firmware modules that use RS-422 level I/O
[19:07:24] <archivist> douzemes for watch glasses
[19:07:25] <pcw_home> including UARTs, Sserial I/O expansion, various serial encoders etc
[19:09:18] <zeeshan> hi PCW help! :P
[19:09:25] <roycroft> then there are drams for whisky
[19:09:44] <roycroft> an eminently useful measurement of volume, but really not related to anything but whisky
[19:10:06] <zeeshan> im planning to fire up the axis servo drives using single phase
[19:10:22] <zeeshan> wouldnt i require 1.73x more current and the internal wires have to be sized larger too?
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[19:11:08] <zeeshan> it looks like theres 10 or 8 gauge wire running from each phase
[19:11:12] <zeeshan> on the power side
[19:11:29] <zeeshan> internally in the fanuc drive.. the servo eats 12A continuous
[19:11:38] <zeeshan> so i guess it's already oversized
[19:13:15] <Sync> zeeshan: the drive will internally regulate the current
[19:13:18] <Sync> so it'll stay the same
[19:13:25] <zeeshan> no no
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[19:13:32] <zeeshan> im thinking of derating the current internally
[19:13:37] <zeeshan> due to the lack of 1 phase
[19:13:47] <zeeshan> i understand itll limit it to 12A
[19:13:51] <zeeshan> cause that is what it's designed for
[19:13:54] <zeeshan> but i want to drop it to 9A
[19:13:58] <zeeshan> and lose some torque
[19:15:19] <pcw_home> It will _not_ limit at 12A
[19:15:46] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/QObqBAY.png
[19:15:48] <zeeshan> mine is a dc10m
[19:15:51] <zeeshan> it says setting "12A"
[19:15:56] <zeeshan> what is it limiting it to then?
[19:16:01] <zeeshan> what is the drive drawing?
[19:16:08] <zeeshan> there is a 15A breaker there..
[19:16:14] <pcw_home> it will limit at the motor peak current rating (probably about 40A )
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[19:18:11] <zeeshan> how come there are 2 terminals 7 and 8
[19:18:17] <zeeshan> and 5,6 going to the same wire? :P
[19:19:02] <pcw_home> lot of current?
[19:19:02] <zeeshan> and is pin 3 and 4 dc injection?
[19:19:36] <pcw_home> 3,4 is 100VAC I believe
[19:20:35] <zeeshan> okay i think i can test fire this on the bench
[19:20:40] <pcw_home> (it runs all the control logic, and its not 120V because its Japanese)
[19:20:42] <zeeshan> with no servo motor connected
[19:20:49] <zeeshan> i should be able to measure the output voltage at the motor terminals
[19:21:25] <zeeshan> btw you were right
[19:21:33] <malcom2073_> Man I need a cnc lathe
[19:21:34] <zeeshan> vcmd is +/- 10v
[19:21:41] <malcom2073_> I don't wanna re-make this bushing, but it'd be easy with CNC haha
[19:21:43] <pcw_home> (BUT MAKE really sure of the connections I Am pretty sure those are 100VAC but I could be wrong)
[19:21:48] <zeeshan> i will double check
[19:21:57] <zeeshan> the thing i REALLY want to limit the torque on
[19:21:59] <zeeshan> is the spindle motor
[19:22:03] <zeeshan> i want to limit it to 10kW
[19:22:05] <zeeshan> instead of 15kW
[19:22:15] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/T7txKna.png
[19:22:37] <zeeshan> i also feel like the spindle drive won't work on 2 phases
[19:22:38] <pcw_home> Just dont start/stop it too fast :-)
[19:22:57] <zeeshan> cause the 3 phases go into the regen control circuit
[19:23:13] <pcw_home> it will probably bellyache about the missing phases
[19:23:26] <zeeshan> i was showing the guys lastr night:
[19:23:30] <pcw_home> and not start
[19:23:51] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/kQ3Q4SC.jpg
[19:23:54] <zeeshan> here is the physical rst terminals
[19:24:01] Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[19:24:08] <zeeshan> there are two wires going from r s to do something
[19:24:16] <zeeshan> which i think is the control power
[19:24:19] <zeeshan> going to fuses f4b and f4a
[19:24:29] <zeeshan> (there is a transformer there)
[19:24:59] <Jymmm> How to cut wood
http://imgur.com/gallery/UNAnE
[19:25:37] <pcw_home> I suspect it will be tough to get the spindle drive to work, might be better to sell it and buy a VFD
[19:25:45] <zeeshan> but i want orientation control
[19:25:45] <zeeshan> :(
[19:26:42] <pcw_home> IICRC those drives are pretty sophisticated and may be quite difficult to run without 3 phase input power
[19:26:50] <zeeshan> the spindle drive
[19:26:55] <zeeshan> or the axis drives?
[19:27:03] <zeeshan> cause the axis drives dont seem to have a check for phase loss
[19:27:33] <pcw_home> The Axis drives should be easy to run on single phase
[19:28:23] <zeeshan> could you recommend a drive
[19:28:29] <zeeshan> a vfd that can run 3 phase pm motors?
[19:29:21] <pcw_home> What make you think thats a PM motor?
[19:30:35] <Sync> hmm, if it has a regen control it might be hard to run on single phase
[19:30:37] <zeeshan> because of the block diagram
[19:30:42] <zeeshan> here|:
[19:30:53] <Sync> although you might be able to yolo it
[19:31:23] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/qTotQEl.png
[19:31:27] <zeeshan> it says "AC spindle servo unit"
[19:31:50] <Sync> I mean, just try it
[19:32:00] <zeeshan> Sync: i dont want to burn it
[19:32:07] <zeeshan> cause i can get $2000+ for it
[19:32:16] <zeeshan> and use that money to get something more modern and compact
[19:32:23] <zeeshan> like a wj200 which can run both types of motors
[19:32:31] <pcw_home> Very easy to check the motor
[19:32:32] <zeeshan> but ireally want orientation , because id like to put live tooling on the lathe
[19:32:33] <pcw_home> (short 2 leads and turn the shaft)
[19:33:17] <Sync> it most probably will not burn up zeeshan
[19:33:26] <Sync> and I highly doubt that you can actually sell it for that kind of money
[19:33:41] <zeeshan> Sync: i saw one go on ebay
[19:33:42] <zeeshan> for 2000
[19:33:47] <zeeshan> it was being bid on
[19:33:52] <zeeshan> so i don't doubt i can sell it for that high
[19:34:16] <Sync> dunno, I watch some spindle drives here around that price being not sold for a few years
[19:35:29] <zeeshan> PCW: why are the fanuc servo drives physically so much bigger
[19:35:33] <zeeshan> in comparison to amc drives?
[19:35:38] <zeeshan> for the same continuous current capacity
[19:35:56] <anomynous_> live tooling <3 lathe is boring without live tooling
[19:35:57] <anomynous_> ;D
[19:36:03] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOORE-AND-WRIGHT-BRAILLE-MICROMETER-MODEL-NO-686-73-RANGE-0-1-READING-0-001/401015237518 essential for the blind lathe user
[19:36:10] <MattyMatt> and a blindfold
[19:36:19] <zeeshan> wow thats cool
[19:36:31] <anomynous_> well not. it can be exciting if a workpiece stays in jaws
[19:36:34] <anomynous_> ;D
[19:36:46] <zeeshan> haha anomynous_ -- i like cnc lathes
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[19:43:40] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advance-Motion-Controls-B25A20ACN-BH2-PWM-Brushless-Servo-Amplifier-30-125V-AMC-/151597564369?hash=item234beb41d1:g:ccgAAOSwv0tU6QA5
[19:43:42] <zeeshan> CHEAP!
[19:43:43] <zeeshan> and brand new
[19:44:53] <pcw_home> The drives are older (so use Bipolar transistors) but also have a much larger peak current rating than the AMC drives
[19:45:02] <zeeshan> when you say much lareger
[19:45:04] <zeeshan> how much larger?
[19:45:04] <zeeshan> 3x?
[19:45:06] <zeeshan> 4x?
[19:45:11] <zeeshan> amc is 2x
[19:45:23] <pcw_home> 2X -3X at least
[19:45:31] <zeeshan> amc peak is 25A
[19:45:43] <zeeshan> but theyre like 4x the size of the amc
[19:46:31] <pcw_home> I would expect that the Fanuc drives can supply 40 -80 A peak
[19:46:41] <zeeshan> ah they're a better drive then
[19:46:57] <zeeshan> remember a while back you told me the be25a20ac is too small for my Z
[19:47:08] <zeeshan> it's working fine for what i need
[19:47:16] <zeeshan> but i had to slow it down by 20ipm relative to the other 2 axis
[19:47:25] <zeeshan> and decrease accel
[19:47:32] <zeeshan> i suspect this is because of the peak current like yo uwere saying.
[19:47:39] <zeeshan> i don't want to run into the same issue w/ this machine
[19:47:47] <zeeshan> since ill be using it in production mode sometimes
[19:48:20] <zeeshan> they are also cheaper to replace
[19:48:23] <zeeshan> vs the amc :)
[19:48:43] <pcw_home> Yeah those drives are matched to the motors ( and a 12A Cont motor is likely close to 40-50Apeak)
[19:50:38] <zeeshan> ill check of the motor is PM w/ your test method.
[19:50:52] <zeeshan> if it is indeed PM, do you think I can somehow run it at 10hp vs 20hp
[19:51:03] <zeeshan> so it draws less current, and requires a smaller vfd
[19:51:24] <zeeshan> w/ AC induction motors in my experience, if you try to run a 2hp motor w/ a 1hp vfd
[19:51:35] <zeeshan> it draws a lot more current than it's rated for
[19:51:43] <zeeshan> (the vfd)
[19:52:16] <pcw_home> I suspect the issue will be getting the spindle drive to not immediately fault
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[19:52:45] <zeeshan> the VFD
[19:52:46] <zeeshan> or fanuc?
[19:52:50] <pcw_home> most VFDs are not going to work with PM motors
[19:53:01] <zeeshan> the wj200 says its meant to drive PM
[19:53:28] <zeeshan> http://www.hitachi-ies.co.jp/english/products/inv/wj200/features1.htm
[19:53:32] <zeeshan> Induction motor & Permanent magnetic motor* control with one inverter
[19:53:35] <pcw_home> OK
[19:53:49] <zeeshan> my worry is using a 10hp vfd to drive wj200
[19:54:18] <zeeshan> to drive a 20hp motor
[19:54:28] * zeeshan can't type :)
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[20:35:15] <Erant> Huh, I just noticed the 7i78 doesn't really have any inputs... How do I wire up stuff like drive faults and servo enable and whatnot?
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[20:37:15] <ssi> pcw_home: so if you short two phases together and the motor won't turn, it's a pm motor, if it's an induction motor it will turn?
[20:37:31] <pcw_home> yes
[20:37:35] <ssi> ok
[20:37:40] * ssi runs off to try his spindle
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[20:37:57] <pcw_home> (well it will turn but will resist motion)
[20:38:15] <ssi> yeah this 1kw servo next to me spins free, but if I short two phases it gets stiff and cogs
[20:38:19] <ssi> lemme try the spindle
[20:40:23] <ssi> doesn't seem to make a difference on the spindle
[20:40:27] <ssi> it's a fanuc 18P/10000
[20:40:42] <ssi> zee and I were talking about it last night and we came to the conclusion it was probably PM, but now I'm not so sure
[20:40:53] <zeeshan> did yuou try the phase short technique?
[20:40:56] <ssi> yes
[20:40:57] <zeeshan> i will do it in a few min
[20:41:00] <zeeshan> it doesnt make a diff?
[20:41:04] <ssi> I just alligator clipped at the jbox onthe side of the motor
[20:41:05] <ssi> didn't seem to
[20:41:11] <Contract_Pilot> Sup....
[20:41:13] <zeeshan> hm
[20:41:23] <zeeshan> i dont understand how you can have a servo motor
[20:41:25] <zeeshan> when its not sync
[20:41:41] <ssi> well it may well not be a servo motor
[20:41:46] <Contract_Pilot> SSI had a good chuckle somone offerd me 70.00 for a brand new fiberglass 150 wing tip.
[20:42:04] <Sync> why not zeeshan
[20:42:15] <ssi> did you tell him you won't take a dollar less than $85? :D
[20:42:25] <Contract_Pilot> hahaha
[20:42:26] <zeeshan> sync cause it needs to be accurate
[20:42:53] <Contract_Pilot> told him sorry he can buy one from the mfg for 275.00 + ship.
[20:42:53] <archivist> the feedback and control loop is what makes it accurate
[20:42:53] <Sync> so wat? you will get slip that you need to compensate for
[20:43:04] <zeeshan> that slip isn't a constant amount
[20:43:06] <zeeshan> it varies
[20:43:19] <Sync> so
[20:43:20] <zeeshan> and you can't hold position
[20:43:23] <archivist> the feedback and control loop is what makes it accurate
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[20:59:29] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:07:33] <zeeshan> ssi
[21:07:36] <zeeshan> !
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[21:31:52] <zeeshan> pcw , ssi
[21:31:58] <zeeshan> the motor is ac induction i think
[21:32:04] <zeeshan> cause doing the short test doesnt do anything
[21:32:12] <zeeshan> blargh :P
[21:32:30] <zeeshan> ssi mine has the same module type thing as your motor
[21:32:33] <zeeshan> w/ the fanuc fancy encoder
[21:32:46] <XXCoder> Contract_Pilot: guess guy thought you didnt know value of those things.
[21:32:53] <MrSunshine> hmm trying to descide on a fan design for dust collection .. ofc i want the best ind of fan for it ... anyone have any input on that? =)
[21:33:07] <MrSunshine> there are forward curved, backwards curved .. straight or radial blades etc .. :/
[21:33:53] <andypugh> What do they us in vacuum cleaners?
[21:34:18] <XXCoder> MrSunshine: planning filter ir before it passes though fan itself or after?
[21:34:32] <MrSunshine> cyclone before it passes throught the blower
[21:34:33] <XXCoder> not really to answer your question, just curious
[21:34:44] <MrSunshine> and maybe some kind of filtering system right after the cyclone
[21:35:20] <XXCoder> woodgears used a house vent system filter with fan, seem very effective
[21:36:23] <MrSunshine> looks like backwards curved, from what i can read they are able to cope with dust etc also
[21:36:28] <MrSunshine> so might be the deisgn to go with
[21:36:38] <XXCoder> interesting
http://www.3domusa.com/shop/buzzed-beer-filament/
[21:36:43] <Praesmeodymium> radial (squirrelcage) fans can develop pressure axial do not very well
[21:36:51] <MrSunshine> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/60034222031/Precision_turbo_vacuum_cleaner_impeller_high_precision.jpg
[21:37:04] <MrSunshine> tho ... they look quite complicated the ones in vacuum cleaner systems :P
[21:37:14] <Wolf_> I use a cyclone on a 30gal drum, then in to a shop vac with a bag filter and hepa filter
[21:39:04] <Praesmeodymium> oh forgot this is the room where cheapest is not the bestest lol
[21:39:19] <PetefromTn_> Just visited with a local machinist friend...
[21:39:23] <MrSunshine> Type 6, Airfoil wheels incorporate a blade design with the cross section of an airplane wing. They are the most efficient design for moving large volumes of air. They are commonly used for ventilation, forced cooling at higher pressures, and on dust collectors, where the fan is on the clean side of the collector.
[21:39:34] <MrSunshine> hmm but airfoil is a bit tricky to make i guess =)
[21:39:43] <PetefromTn_> he sold me a bunch of great cutters/endmills for a song!!
[21:39:55] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: nice
[21:40:18] <PetefromTn_> got some nice new YG1 V7 coated carbides in several different flavors
[21:40:31] <PetefromTn_> got a nice new MA ford champfer bit
[21:40:54] <PetefromTn_> also got a cool Scandinavian Tool company insert threadmill with some inserts
[21:41:26] <PetefromTn_> and a few other goodies for $60.00!!
[21:41:48] <Tom_itx> did you dance for him?
[21:41:55] <PetefromTn_> I should have ;)
[21:42:28] <PetefromTn_> I went over there because he was telling me he had a bunch of the Yg1's for sale
[21:42:41] <PetefromTn_> but now I am kinda excited about this insert threadmill.
[21:43:03] <PetefromTn_> it won't work for small threads but for larger bores and external threads on bosses it should be beautiful
[21:45:24] <Tom_itx> why was he gettin rid of em?
[21:45:42] <MrSunshine> hmm in dust collection, are you looking for high volume or high preasure? =)
[21:46:01] <PetefromTn_> well he has TONS of tooling
[21:46:05] <MrSunshine> tho they measure on the exhaust side it seems ...
[21:46:27] <PetefromTn_> and I think he got some new stuff to replace this stuff and he also buys lots of tooling and resells them.
[21:46:41] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Did you read that description of thread-milling M2 threads in titanium?
[21:46:43] <PetefromTn_> but mostly he is just a good friend and gets me deals LOL
[21:46:53] <PetefromTn_> andypugh no
[21:46:56] <Tom_itx> nice
[21:46:59] <PetefromTn_> was it for me>
[21:47:30] <PetefromTn_> http://www.scandinavian-tool.se/wp-content/uploads/pdf/Threadmill_US.pdf this it the .PDF of the insert threadmill I got
[21:48:00] <PetefromTn_> TMX0075-79-2-14 I got this one I think,
[21:48:43] <MrSunshine> looks like its the backwards curved design that it is .. tho cant handle dust very well but most efficient for dust collection it seems
[21:48:44] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: “Stage Two” here:
http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=conrods
[21:49:00] <ssi> zeeshan: hm ok... what model is yours?
[21:50:10] <PetefromTn_> M2x.04??
[21:50:25] <andypugh> M2 x 0.4 I think.
[21:50:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah thats what I meant
[21:50:45] <PetefromTn_> pretty tiny
[21:50:49] <andypugh> 63.5tpi
[21:51:31] <PetefromTn_> heh reminds me
[21:51:57] <PetefromTn_> one of the guys in the shop just bought a set of con rods for his 800hp turbo Honda civic he is building
[21:52:19] <PetefromTn_> he was saying that he WANTED billet aluminum ones but they were too pricey
[21:52:21] <andypugh> I imagine they were bigger?
[21:52:28] <MrSunshine> for small dust you want high volume low vacuum ?
[21:52:34] <PetefromTn_> yeah like six or seven inches long
[21:52:36] <MrSunshine> for big parts you want high vacuum low speed ?
[21:52:38] <MrSunshine> hmm
[21:53:14] <Tom_itx> those are like 6 or 7 cm
[21:53:56] <PetefromTn_> I know I'm just saying they get crazy prices for those HP con rods
[21:54:05] <PetefromTn_> four rods is like $2k
[21:54:15] <andypugh> What were the ones he got made of?
[21:54:30] <PetefromTn_> I think forged steel or something I forgot
[21:54:32] <Tom_itx> yeah, my bud would replace his about midway thru the season
[21:55:48] <PetefromTn_> I wonder how hard it would be to machine some I know they gotta be damn good
[21:55:50] <Tom_itx> pistons had 2-3 different types of coating on them from top to bottom
[21:56:05] <PetefromTn_> yeah he got some new wiseco's too
[21:56:42] <Tom_itx> the rods are a big as your wrist
[21:56:56] <zeeshan> sorry back
[21:56:57] <Tom_itx> good for maybe half a season
[21:57:04] <zeeshan> model of the motor?
[21:57:07] <PetefromTn_> what kind of car/motor?
[21:57:28] <Tom_itx> keith black 540 blown
[21:57:34] <Tom_itx> funnycar
[21:57:44] <PetefromTn_> ah
[21:57:49] <Akex_> Hy all
[21:57:51] <Tom_itx> 3k+ hp
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[21:58:10] <Akex_> Now linuxcnc work on 64bit processor ?
[21:58:23] <Tom_itx> Akex_, i think so
[21:58:49] <Akex_> Tom i want that sure ...
[21:59:10] <PetefromTn_> just found out that they have a nice cars and coffee in Knoxville on Sunday mornings...
[21:59:41] <Akex_> andypugh: i am sure you know that ;)
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[22:00:36] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_alternate_install_methods
[22:00:38] <Tom_itx> Akex_, yes
[22:00:52] <Tom_itx> jessie, wheezy, precise
[22:01:01] <Tom_itx> lucid
[22:01:09] <Tom_itx> all have 64 versions
[22:01:34] <zeeshan> ssi: a06b-1012-b200
[22:02:18] <Akex_> I must don't use a live cd that it ? Tom_itx
[22:02:31] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure on that
[22:05:01] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5283471974.html OMFG now THAT is a Bandsaw!!
[22:06:05] <zeeshan> haha
[22:06:07] <zeeshan> serious business!
[22:06:16] <Tom_itx> nice big throat
[22:06:32] <PetefromTn_> yeah man that is a beast
[22:06:49] <PetefromTn_> and actually that is a SMOKING price too
[22:07:12] <zeeshan> PCW: for a 3 phase PM motor, rotating the shaft should cause a generation of voltage at u v w?
[22:07:14] <zeeshan> right?
[22:07:19] <zeeshan> cause its a permanent magnet rotor..
[22:07:24] <Tom_itx> blade's probably 3 mi long
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[22:07:41] <PetefromTn_> yeah probably cost for blades a good bit
[22:07:42] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: probably because its smoking heh
[22:07:43] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i think i saw a bandsaw like that new for $12000
[22:07:45] <XXCoder> honest dunno
[22:07:46] <zeeshan> so it is a crazy deal
[22:07:58] <Wolf_> blade cost? it has a blade welder on it
[22:08:02] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is a very expensive machine
[22:08:32] <PetefromTn_> wish I did not need to spend my pennies on CNC lathe parts I might try to buy that one...
[22:08:56] <zeeshan> prolly weighs 2000lb
[22:08:56] <zeeshan> :D
[22:09:09] <PetefromTn_> probably
[22:09:24] <PetefromTn_> you could cut your car in half on that damn thing tho ;)
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[22:12:02] <andypugh> zeeshan: I would expect to generate voltage with a pM motor, yes,
[22:12:09] <zeeshan> but ac motor no
[22:12:17] <zeeshan> because the rotor is just a chunk of useless metal
[22:12:17] <zeeshan> :D
[22:12:27] <zeeshan> okay logic is correct :D
[22:12:28] <andypugh> Even an AC motor if spinning very fast, but not a lot.
[22:13:00] <zeeshan> i was thinking about this because i remember putting a volt meter on a 3 phase induction motor before
[22:13:05] <zeeshan> and it doesnt do anything in terms of generation of voltage
[22:13:24] <zeeshan> but if you pull the motor apart and put in 4 magnets equically spaced about the axis
[22:13:33] <zeeshan> now you got yourself a pm motor and you can generate voltage
[22:13:41] <zeeshan> i was played with this like a decade ago for fun
[22:13:49] <zeeshan> when i was into building a wind generator
[22:14:00] <pcw_home> An induction motor maybe generale a tiny bit from residual magnetism
[22:14:22] <zeeshan> so pcw im glad you asked your q
[22:14:29] <pcw_home> not enough to notice from shorted windings though
[22:14:32] <zeeshan> cause i was thinking just cause it said "Ac servo spindle drive"
[22:14:39] <zeeshan> that it was a PM motor
[22:15:09] <zeeshan> but its an async motor and they've got an encoder on the rotor to make "synchronous"
[22:15:35] <zeeshan> through control..
[22:15:48] <pcw_home> there are induction servos and they can have good servo performance but require more complicated control to achieve that performance
[22:15:56] <zeeshan> why though?
[22:16:03] <zeeshan> if you got an encoder on a rotor, you know the actual speed right?
[22:16:16] <zeeshan> can't you use simple pid to control the voltage/frequency
[22:16:21] <zeeshan> to achieve your desired rotor speed?
[22:16:24] <pcw_home> because the control needs to maintain and model the rotor flux
[22:16:57] <zeeshan> isn't that for sensorless control?
[22:17:10] <pcw_home> no
[22:18:12] <pcw_home> maintaining the rotor flux through reversals is not trivial
[22:19:33] <pcw_home> There are some pretty good papers on using induction motors as servos, worth a search if you are interested
[22:19:43] * zeeshan just wants to use a regular vfd
[22:19:45] <zeeshan> w/ feedback
[22:19:50] <zeeshan> to control position :(
[22:20:09] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: I started trying to work out the possible responses of two phase AC motors, fed with an envelope limited to existing mains, but chopped.
[22:20:14] <zeeshan> this vfd i currently have
[22:20:17] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: I soon went mad.
[22:20:22] <zeeshan> has something called "gain closed-loop vector control"
[22:20:33] <zeeshan> which uses encoder feedback and some other motor parameters
[22:20:36] <zeeshan> to achieve closed loop performance
[22:20:45] <zeeshan> er clsoed loop control of position
[22:20:53] <zeeshan> i've never done it because i thought it was impossible :P
[22:20:57] <pcw_home> induction motors have some advantages as spindles since you can get a wider speed range via filed weakening
[22:21:13] <pcw_home> field weakening
[22:21:24] <zeeshan> i'm not worried about zero speed torque because i have a brake caliper on the spindle
[22:21:37] <zeeshan> (which is how i think it was holding the spindle locked)
[22:21:51] <pcw_home> Non PM DC motors also have this advantage
[22:22:07] <zeeshan> because there isn't back emf?
[22:22:10] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: you can do field weakening on PM brushless too
[22:22:17] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: >90C or so does it.
[22:22:35] <pcw_home> yeah but that more permanent :-)
[22:23:15] <SpeedEvil> now I'm wondering if it's possible to remagnetise using teh existing coils without actually frying the coils in the pulse.
[22:23:22] <SpeedEvil> I suspect not
[22:24:29] <pcw_home> zeeshan: imaging a DC motor with a field winding, the back EMF is directly proportional to the speed*the field current
[22:24:35] <pcw_home> imagine
[22:24:44] <zeeshan> yes this is why you need to pump more voltage
[22:24:51] <zeeshan> to get em to spin faster
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[22:25:19] <pcw_home> so if i 1/2 the field current, i can run twice as fast with the same power supply voltage
[22:25:43] <pcw_home> (with 1/2 the torque also)
[22:26:09] <SpeedEvil> Also causes fun explosions if you lose the field coils and remenant magnetism is enough to keep it going
[22:26:43] <pcw_home> yes, you do lose efficiency as you lower the field strength
[22:27:03] <zeeshan> has anyone here used closed loop vector control using a 3 phase induction motor
[22:27:09] <zeeshan> for angular position
[22:27:31] <zeeshan> like basically get a motor to consistently go to 30 degrees for example
[22:27:42] <zeeshan> when it reaches there, wait 200 ms and then apply a brake
[22:27:46] <zeeshan> do your machining
[22:27:52] <zeeshan> then remove brake, and position somewhere else
[22:27:54] <SpeedEvil> Yes, you can do that
[22:27:54] <zeeshan> and brake again
[22:27:56] <zeeshan> etc
[22:28:17] <SpeedEvil> (well, in principle with a closed-loop control of suitable fu)
[22:28:25] <pcw_home> the (1990's) Fanuc control managed to do it :-)
[22:28:28] <zeeshan> i see 2 closed loop control methods :P
[22:28:32] <SpeedEvil> The torque is proportional to slip speed.
[22:28:41] <zeeshan> v/hz and vector
[22:28:50] <zeeshan> one is controlling magnitude, the other is control magnitude and direction
[22:28:59] <zeeshan> so i'd think vector control is superior
[22:29:14] <zeeshan> pcw_ that's true :)
[22:29:22] <zeeshan> the drive only weighed 80lb..
[22:29:23] <zeeshan> :)
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[22:30:56] <zeeshan> i dont understand why my machine has 2 encoders
[22:30:58] <zeeshan> one right on the spindle motor
[22:31:01] <zeeshan> and one right on the chuck
[22:31:06] <zeeshan> (axially to the chuck)
[22:31:09] <SpeedEvil> Slop?
[22:31:21] <zeeshan> yes, but then why go through the effort of putting one on the motor
[22:31:22] <SpeedEvil> Are there gears?
[22:31:23] <zeeshan> just use the chuck one
[22:31:24] <zeeshan> yes
[22:31:26] <zeeshan> and belts
[22:31:36] <SpeedEvil> you want to control the motor speed at the motor, I guess.
[22:31:43] <zeeshan> why?
[22:31:44] <zeeshan> :P
[22:31:46] <SpeedEvil> Rather than trying to infer the motor speed at teh chuck.
[22:31:51] <pcw_home> Sure 80# but 20? HP and regeneration, not going to get that in a cheap VFD
[22:32:02] <SpeedEvil> (this is a guess)
[22:32:18] <zeeshan> http://www.vfds.com/20hp-230V-hitachi-vfd-WJ200110LF
[22:32:24] <zeeshan> this isn't super badly pricedf
[22:32:54] <pcw_home> no regeneration
[22:33:07] <pcw_home> just a brake resistor
[22:33:19] <zeeshan> my sumitomo vfd has regen
[22:33:23] <zeeshan> its 10hp though
[22:33:29] <zeeshan> i'd LOVE to use the same drive to run the machine
[22:33:41] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sumitomo-VFD-HF4302-7A5-Adjustable-Variable-Frequency-Drives-1-PH-3-PH-/171383770332?hash=item27e744ccdc
[22:33:46] <zeeshan> but i really feel like
[22:33:53] <zeeshan> even under no load
[22:33:55] <zeeshan> it'll overcurrent
[22:34:02] <zeeshan> w/ a 15kw motor
[22:35:46] <PetefromTn_> woah what is that?
[22:36:02] <zeeshan> ??
[22:36:35] <PetefromTn_> is that a single phase input 7.5hp VFD?
[22:36:39] <zeeshan> 10hp
[22:36:40] <zeeshan> yes
[22:36:43] <zeeshan> i showed you this before!
[22:36:45] <zeeshan> you didnt like it :{
[22:36:47] <PetefromTn_> WTF!!!!
[22:37:00] <PetefromTn_> that is HALF the price of what I have been looking at
[22:37:07] <PetefromTn_> is that what you have on your machine?
[22:37:33] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean I didn't like it?
[22:37:41] <zeeshan> yes that's what is on the mill
[22:38:07] <zeeshan> i think you wanted to get a wj200
[22:38:10] <PetefromTn_> that should easily run my 7.5 HP lathe motor then?
[22:38:16] <zeeshan> ya
[22:38:34] <PetefromTn_> have you had any issues with yours?
[22:38:35] <zeeshan> i wrote a modbus driver for it
[22:38:37] <zeeshan> er
[22:38:39] <zeeshan> not modbus
[22:38:44] <zeeshan> the main issue was it doesnt use modbus
[22:38:49] <zeeshan> the addon card is like $400..
[22:38:51] <zeeshan> and very hard to get
[22:38:54] <PetefromTn_> I don't want modbus for this
[22:39:05] <zeeshan> so i hacked their propietary communication protocol
[22:39:08] <zeeshan> and grabbed the info
[22:39:12] <zeeshan> you do if you want to monitor torque
[22:39:14] <zeeshan> and things like that
[22:39:29] -!- Praesmeodymium [Praesmeodymium!~kvirc@c-24-21-129-95.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:39:45] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: when you look at the manual for the sumitomo drive
[22:39:45] <PetefromTn_> I just need it to spin my lathe motor with sufficient power and be able to control fwd rev/ speed/threading
[22:39:50] <zeeshan> and compare it to the l300p by hitachi
[22:39:56] <zeeshan> its the EXACT same manual almost!!
[22:40:05] <zeeshan> all the memory addreses are the same
[22:40:08] <zeeshan> all the menus are same
[22:42:56] <PetefromTn_> awesome..
[22:43:03] <PetefromTn_> but you are happy with it...
[22:43:11] <zeeshan> yes
[22:43:30] <zeeshan> i like how the capacitor pack is modular
[22:43:37] <zeeshan> so when the time comes to replace it
[22:43:42] <zeeshan> its like 4 bolts
[22:43:47] <zeeshan> and it comes right out :D
[22:44:21] <PetefromTn_> jeez I think you may have just saved me like $430.00!!!
[22:44:28] <andypugh> I have 3 days left on my HSM Pro demo, so I feel I have to get these patterns done. But I don’t really want to. If it wasn’t for the license thing I would be dping something different, like making motors spin.
[22:44:32] <zeeshan> make sure its okay for your app :P
[22:45:01] <zeeshan> andypugh: fix my stuff :"(
[22:45:11] <PetefromTn_> why would it not be okay for my app?
[22:46:25] <zeeshan> i think it'd be okay
[22:47:23] <zeeshan> i dont like how the 1 phase
[22:47:24] <zeeshan> is blank
[22:47:43] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean 1 phase is blank?
[22:47:52] <zeeshan> the current rating on it
[22:47:55] <zeeshan> its got a rating on the 3 phase
[22:47:57] <zeeshan> but not on the single phase
[22:50:21] <andypugh> Look at the auction, last picture
[22:53:49] <PetefromTn_> you are running this thing on single phase 230v input right?
[22:53:54] <zeeshan> yes
[22:54:05] <PetefromTn_> what HP?
[22:55:07] <zeeshan> good question
[22:55:08] <zeeshan> i need to check haha
[22:55:14] <jthornton> you have to derate a 3 phase input to run on single phase
[22:55:28] <zeeshan> jthornton: but its meant to be used on single phase too
[22:55:34] <zeeshan> i think the caps are oversized
[22:55:55] <zeeshan> when i was reading about it i got the impression is a robust drive cause it accounts for phase loss
[22:55:58] <jthornton> if it is rated for single phase input that's a whole different ball game
[22:56:08] <zeeshan> cause it specifically tells you on the drive
[22:56:13] <zeeshan> to connect l1 and l3 for single phase operation
[22:56:23] <zeeshan> otherwise it'll error out
[22:56:31] <XXCoder> walmart is busted, they was labeling chinese crap products as made in usa
[22:56:36] <jthornton> the biggest I've seen single phase input is 3hp but I'm sure there are bigger ones
[22:56:59] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/i5H5xKV.jpg
[22:57:04] <zeeshan> 4.4kW so 6HP pete
[22:57:08] <Erant> RS232 is non-blocking on LinuxCNC, right?
[22:57:13] <zeeshan> jthornton: i found a really big one
[22:57:13] <zeeshan> haha
[22:57:25] <jthornton> nice
[22:57:30] <zeeshan> https://www.driveswarehouse.com/p-2152-pc1-200.aspx
[22:57:37] <zeeshan> 130A input
[22:57:37] <zeeshan> lol
[22:57:48] <jthornton> holy crap batman
[22:58:42] <PetefromTn_> its probably not big enough to run my 7.5 on single then huh
[22:59:47] <ssi> zeeshan: sry back
[23:00:02] <zeeshan> ssi i think we got induction motors..
[23:00:06] <ssi> yea I think you're right
[23:00:16] <zeeshan> mine doesnt output an voltage when i spin it
[23:00:52] <zeeshan> ssi what vfd did you get
[23:00:55] <zeeshan> and what is your motor nameplate hp
[23:00:58] <ssi> zeeshan: wj200, 25hp
[23:01:06] <ssi> motor is 9kw continuous, 11kw for 30 min
[23:01:08] <ssi> 15hp
[23:01:17] <ssi> I paid about $1100 for the vfd
[23:01:19] <zeeshan> wj200 comes in 25hp?
[23:01:21] <ssi> yep
[23:01:22] <zeeshan> i only see 20hp max
[23:01:28] <zeeshan> for single phase 240v
[23:01:30] <zeeshan> er
[23:01:32] <zeeshan> 3 phase 240v
[23:01:48] <ssi> I think it's 20hp continuous, 25hp variable torque
[23:01:56] <ssi> WJ200-150HF I believe?
[23:02:09] <zeeshan> yea but we care about CT rating
[23:02:10] <zeeshan> not vt
[23:02:18] <jthornton> ssi, I got it working :)
[23:02:19] <renesis> https://vid.me/AHTj
[23:02:21] <renesis> skill.
[23:02:24] <ssi> jthornton: sweet :D
[23:02:30] <zeeshan> got what working
[23:02:42] <jthornton> did you see the screenshots?
[23:02:45] <ssi> none of your business! :D
[23:02:46] <ssi> jthornton: no
[23:02:49] <jthornton> lol
[23:03:34] <ssi> zeeshan: foundit,I got a wj200-150LF
[23:03:39] <ssi> dunno what HF vs LF is
[23:03:42] <jthornton> http://ibin.co/2K95bemSRUAG
[23:03:43] <ssi> paid $1025 for it
[23:03:50] <zeeshan> yea thats what i see it going for
[23:03:52] <zeeshan> well 1080$
[23:03:56] <zeeshan> i think im gonan sell my fanuc
[23:03:59] <zeeshan> and just play it safe
[23:04:04] <zeeshan> but i still got a problem
[23:04:07] <zeeshan> my motor is 15kW..
[23:04:08] <ssi> jthornton: looks perfect!
[23:04:11] <zeeshan> at 4500 rpm
[23:04:15] <jthornton> http://ibin.co/2K97xm6DtP4g
[23:04:30] <zeeshan> what is this maze
[23:04:41] <zeeshan> oh nice youre converting dxf to g-code?
[23:04:41] <zeeshan> :D
[23:04:47] <jthornton> yea, when it finally dawned on me what I had to do to match end points it just clicked
[23:04:53] <jthornton> zeeshan, yep
[23:04:59] <zeeshan> that's very useful!
[23:05:03] <jthornton> and real fast too :)
[23:05:04] <ssi> zeeshan: lol nice picture
[23:05:09] <zeeshan> haha ssi
[23:05:16] <zeeshan> big gun
[23:05:58] <ssi> I bought more snapon shit off ebay last night :P
[23:06:26] <zeeshan> whatd you buy
[23:06:34] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/231727670723?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[23:06:41] <ssi> plus one-off 5/16 and 11/32 to complete the set
[23:06:56] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/141788983412?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[23:07:01] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121694598386?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[23:07:12] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-5KW-10HP-34A-220VAC-SINGLE-PHASE-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VSD-VFD-/171853257834
[23:07:20] <zeeshan> F china
[23:07:30] <jthornton> I ran it from python a while ago so making a gui now
[23:07:54] <zeeshan> ISO9001 quality certifications which means this item is the top quanlity item.
[23:07:55] <zeeshan> !
[23:07:55] <zeeshan> :D
[23:07:58] <zeeshan> chinglish
[23:08:16] <ssi> zeeshan: yea man I don't mind buying some cheap crap but cheap crap to run 7.5+kw gives me the willies :)
[23:08:45] <zeeshan> it really sucks balls when a machine stops working in the middle of a job
[23:08:52] <zeeshan> especially when you have limited time to do it
[23:09:01] <ssi> it sucks even worse when the output transistors explode and the machine catches on fire :D
[23:10:43] <zeeshan> ssi: you know the rating of 11kW for your motor
[23:10:50] <zeeshan> that works out to like 39A
[23:11:04] <zeeshan> want to hook it up for me? :D
[23:11:11] <zeeshan> and see if it actually draws 39A when it reaches speed
[23:11:15] <zeeshan> or draws like 12A
[23:11:55] -!- ink [ink!~ink@c-67-180-228-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:12:01] <ssi> I guarantee it doesn't draw 39A at speed unloaded
[23:12:09] <zeeshan> dude i had problems with that shit before
[23:12:14] <zeeshan> 2hp motor on a 1hp
[23:12:19] <zeeshan> it overcurrent within 5 seconds
[23:12:28] <zeeshan> =/
[23:12:42] <zeeshan> i guess ill get the 20hp wj200
[23:12:48] <zeeshan> and if it fails, ill just get a differnt motor
[23:13:05] <zeeshan> (which hopefully has a builtin encoder for the rotor)
[23:13:07] <ssi> lol good plan
[23:13:23] <zeeshan> i dont wanna get a 40hp drive
[23:13:26] <zeeshan> and draw 130A!!!
[23:13:38] <zeeshan> i dont think the bus bar on my panel can handle more than 120A
[23:13:40] <zeeshan> per circuit
[23:15:19] <ssi> ugh there's another color run or something across the street
[23:15:21] <ssi> sounds like a freakin rave
[23:15:37] <SpeedEvil> ssi: one wrinkle is that it may draw a little bit of real power, but quite a bit of complex power at speed unloaded for large motors
[23:16:04] <ssi> SpeedEvil: we don't tolerate imaginary power in this household
[23:16:37] <renesis> power company feels the same way
[23:16:48] <SpeedEvil> yeah - but breakers pop with it.
[23:17:07] <ssi> I haven't had any trouble with it
[23:17:11] <ssi> I've only run it unloaded so far
[23:17:16] <ssi> but I have it on an undersized breaker for now
[23:17:28] <ssi> I figure if it starts nuisance tripping I'll pull bigger cable
[23:17:38] <ssi> right now the whole machine is wired on 6awg on a 60A breaker
[23:17:49] <zeeshan> lol
[23:18:01] <zeeshan> the machine hasn't ran! :P
[23:18:06] * zeeshan hides
[23:18:12] <ssi> yep
[23:18:18] <zeeshan> i forget
[23:18:19] <ssi> good thing I didn't spend a bunch of money on 200A service for it
[23:18:24] <zeeshan> do you have 3phase?
[23:18:27] <ssi> no :(
[23:18:32] <ssi> if I did it would be less of an issue!
[23:18:36] <zeeshan> why would you need to spend money for 200a service
[23:18:39] <zeeshan> its not standard there?
[23:18:48] <ssi> I mean 200A to the machine
[23:18:59] <zeeshan> it needs 120A :P
[23:19:15] <ssi> actually I think the nameplate FLA on the machine is 100A
[23:19:21] <zeeshan> for 3 phase?
[23:19:22] <ssi> but that's 100A 3ph
[23:19:22] <zeeshan> jeez
[23:19:30] <zeeshan> thats a lotta power
[23:19:33] <ssi> yes
[23:19:34] <Erant> Is there a LinuxCNC API document? I'm going to have to write some code to poll status from my drives over RS485, and I'm looking for the API to update the core (start/stop/status, etc.)
[23:19:51] <zeeshan> erant over modbus?
[23:20:01] <Erant> No, it's a custom protocol.
[23:20:06] <Erant> As in, vendor specific.
[23:20:13] <zeeshan> similar to modbus?
[23:20:28] <Erant> Not too familiar with modbus. It's probably not far off
[23:20:46] <zeeshan> i had to write some code to communicate with a vendor specific protocol
[23:20:49] <zeeshan> but it was similar to modbus
[23:20:49] <Erant> It's 2 ASCII characters, with a newline terminator, and then an ASCII reply.
[23:20:59] <zeeshan> but instead of CRC check, it had BCD check
[23:21:03] <zeeshan> and all the function codes were different
[23:21:12] <zeeshan> and reading data was dne differently
[23:21:19] <zeeshan> that sounds very much like modbus ascii
[23:21:26] <zeeshan> do you have documentation of the drive?
[23:21:27] <Erant> No CRC checking though.
[23:21:30] <Erant> Yah.
[23:21:36] <zeeshan> showing the communication frame
[23:22:03] <Erant> Yarp. I'm not too worried about writing the code.
[23:22:26] <zeeshan> do you know pythoin
[23:22:37] <zeeshan> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/vfd.py
[23:22:40] <zeeshan> you could base it off that
[23:22:46] <zeeshan> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/comms.py
[23:22:47] <Erant> I've been writing C and Python for longer than I can remember.
[23:22:54] <zeeshan> and add your protocol to comms.py
[23:22:54] <Erant> Well, C a little bit longer than Python ;)
[23:23:25] <ssi> zeeshan: btw my lift is not chinese
[23:23:27] <ssi> it's made in us
[23:23:32] <ssi> it's a bend-pak
[23:23:38] <zeeshan> O
[23:23:56] <zeeshan> erant if you do decide to follow how i did it
[23:24:00] <zeeshan> please let me know if you find errors
[23:24:10] <zeeshan> i tried to make it as robust as i could, but im new to python
[23:25:32] <jthornton> what are you doing in python?
[23:25:59] <zeeshan> not right now
[23:26:17] <zeeshan> but was trying to communicate over a modbus-like protocol
[23:26:27] <zeeshan> erant in comms.py if you search for "mode_custom"
[23:26:37] <zeeshan> you'll see all the area you likely need to add code for your protocol
[23:27:47] <jthornton> crap I hate the gtk file chooser so much I'll have to learn QT and C++ or write my own file chooser
[23:28:04] <zeeshan> lol
[23:28:10] <zeeshan> you really hate it
[23:28:12] <Erant> I should be able to just inherit from the main comms mode, right?
[23:28:14] <zeeshan> i havent seen you hate something so much
[23:28:49] <zeeshan> erant yep i'd thinkso
[23:29:34] <zeeshan> erant this is what i was doing:
[23:29:35] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/MUBcp7U.png
[23:29:36] <zeeshan> lol
[23:29:50] <zeeshan> cause i didn't understand all the code
[23:30:04] <zeeshan> so i did some trial and error to figure out what the drive was replying back with
[23:31:34] <Erant> Haha. Yeah, that's the easiest way.
[23:31:50] <Erant> I tend to like doing regex's more than the manual parsing of floats and ints though.
[23:32:09] <zeeshan> regex is harder for me to understand :P
[23:32:23] <zeeshan> cause they can get very complex really fast
[23:38:05] <malcom2073_> regex's are easy!
[23:39:27] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[23:39:41] <Erant> "Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems."
[23:40:24] <ssi> yep
[23:42:01] <ssi> I think I might be done being productive for toda.y
[23:42:17] <zeeshan> what did you do
[23:42:21] <zeeshan> you were on irc :)
[23:42:27] <ssi> mostly just cleaned up and painted one column of the lift
[23:42:30] <ssi> flew and got fuel
[23:42:42] <zeeshan> do y ou get 3g
[23:42:44] <ssi> spent some time building sigrok to try to do some protocol dumping of smartserial for the stmbl drive
[23:42:45] <zeeshan> while flying
[23:42:49] <ssi> 4g yes
[23:42:53] <zeeshan> haha nice
[23:42:57] <ssi> cleaned up my electronics bench
[23:43:13] <ssi> helped someone change a fuel selector in a citabria
[23:43:37] <ssi> but mostly just that damn paint work
[23:43:56] <ssi> all the arms are painted, the top plate's paited, and one column is painted except for the back
[23:44:06] <ssi> the other column has one side brushed already, gotta brush the rest of it
[23:44:09] <ssi> the interior is the bitch
[23:50:44] <andypugh> Curiously I did a regex course at work on Friday.
[23:51:22] <t12> when faced with a problem you may think
[23:51:27] <t12> i could use a regex to solve this!
[23:51:31] <t12> now you have two problems
[23:51:34] <t12> (to quote jwz)
[23:51:39] <andypugh> The guy had this xkcd in the Powerpoint:
https://xkcd.com/1171/
[23:52:09] <andypugh> And also
https://xkcd.com/208/
[23:55:22] <PetefromTn_> its too bad they don't seem to offer that sumitomo drive in 15hp for a similar price
