#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-08-22

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[00:01:18] <jdh> why are all the cheap lathes in .ca.us
[00:02:05] <furrywolf> I am in .ca.us and there's no cheap lathes here.
[00:02:47] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131549382367
[00:03:19] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271958684343
[00:03:23] <furrywolf> .ca.us is a very big place. :P
[00:03:32] <jdh> so
[00:03:45] <SpeedEvil> jdh: the simple solution is to make an airship that can carry a lathe
[00:03:58] <jdh> everything west of the mississippi is effectively the same place.
[00:04:21] * furrywolf doesn't see a location on the second one
[00:04:34] <jdh> tem location:
[00:04:35] <jdh> San Fernando, California, United State
[00:05:00] <SpeedEvil> May not ship to United Kingdom
[00:05:57] <furrywolf> that's funny. it's not showing me a location. doing a find for fernando also finds nothing.
[00:06:25] <furrywolf> (confirming it's not on the page anywhere)
[00:07:02] <CaptHindsight> $130K CAD, maybe they meant Japanese Yen
[00:07:07] <jdh> the microstar?
[00:07:09] <furrywolf> kik
[00:07:10] <furrywolf> lol
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[00:12:34] <zeeshan> man
[00:12:39] <zeeshan> i have an interesting job to do this weekend lol
[00:13:07] <PetefromTn_> you gonna put that rotary back in your car ;)
[00:13:11] <zeeshan> haha nooo
[00:13:13] <zeeshan> dude
[00:13:17] <zeeshan> you might find this interesting
[00:13:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LAGUNMATIC-MODEL-320-CNC-Vertical-Milling-Machine-VMC-/252059932220 near Pete
[00:13:21] <zeeshan> its not much money but its the part..
[00:13:24] <zeeshan> this guy is bringing 17" wheels
[00:13:29] <zeeshan> he wants the center bores bored out by 4mm
[00:13:40] <zeeshan> it'll be interesting to fit it on the mikron
[00:13:42] <zeeshan> and set it up
[00:13:53] <PetefromTn_> should be pretty easy I think
[00:14:08] <zeeshan> well i cant rtest it directly on the wheel rim
[00:14:22] <zeeshan> cause it wont be square?
[00:14:41] <zeeshan> https://youtu.be/5LMysVxGde0
[00:14:44] <zeeshan> hmm
[00:14:51] <zeeshan> this guy looks like he's got it on the the rim
[00:14:58] <zeeshan> maybe it will be square.. ill check
[00:15:06] <PetefromTn_> why wouldn't it be square?
[00:15:19] <zeeshan> cause that side of the wheel sees curb rash
[00:15:32] <zeeshan> but maybe i can parallel it up
[00:15:35] <PetefromTn_> its a thru bore no?
[00:15:36] <zeeshan> to avoid crap spots
[00:15:38] <CaptHindsight> it just has to clear the hub
[00:15:54] <CaptHindsight> so +- 1mm
[00:16:00] <zeeshan> no its not a thru bore
[00:16:02] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: no
[00:16:07] <zeeshan> these are hubcentric wheels
[00:16:14] <zeeshan> so +/- 0.001
[00:16:26] <CaptHindsight> the tire flex should take care of that :)
[00:16:26] <zeeshan> well -0 +0.002 i mean
[00:17:08] <PetefromTn_> you could put it on 123 blocks and indicate in the back of the hub and shim appropriately if you are worried about it
[00:17:14] <jdh> why not a boring head?
[00:17:21] <zeeshan> jdh why use a boring head
[00:17:24] <zeeshan> when you can cnc it!
[00:17:39] <PetefromTn_> I would use a boring head but you said it was not a thru bore
[00:17:48] <zeeshan> why though!!
[00:17:54] <zeeshan> circular interpolation works so well
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[00:17:59] <PetefromTn_> perfect circle?
[00:18:05] <zeeshan> remember i did those hubs
[00:18:10] <zeeshan> they were all within a couple tenths of runout
[00:18:17] <zeeshan> gotta trust the machine
[00:18:44] <zeeshan> if was a cnc bridgeport conversion
[00:18:47] <zeeshan> maybe no trust :P
[00:18:51] <zeeshan> cincinatti -- yes trust!
[00:19:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CINCINNATI-MILACRON-10VC-1250-A-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-/141751724499 $6,500 or best
[00:19:09] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i am looking at this monster cinci lathe
[00:19:20] <PetefromTn_> Oh I trust my machine just fine..but nothing wrong with a boring head..
[00:19:27] * furrywolf wants a VMC
[00:19:33] <PetefromTn_> and it is precisely adjustable
[00:19:50] <PetefromTn_> thats a CNC mill no ?
[00:20:05] <zeeshan> no i was looking at a milacron avenger
[00:20:15] <PetefromTn_> Gotta go to the store and pickup movies...BBL
[00:20:34] <furrywolf> a) movies suck, b) movie stores still exist? lol
[00:20:49] * furrywolf thought netflix put them out of business
[00:21:00] <PetefromTn_> no grocery stores exist....movies are at the redbox out front ;)
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[00:21:40] <CaptHindsight> how do you torrent from the redbox?
[00:21:58] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/GXuEMwe.jpg
[00:21:59] <zeeshan> wow
[00:22:00] <jdh> go to the redbox,get the dvd, rip, torrent
[00:22:01] <zeeshan> that is COOL
[00:22:07] <zeeshan> haha jdh
[00:22:17] <jdh> you need a bigger lathe
[00:22:23] <zeeshan> i do!!
[00:22:25] <zeeshan> this is sweet!!
[00:22:29] <furrywolf> redbox?
[00:22:30] <jdh> why does one need to bore car hubs?
[00:22:48] <zeeshan> depends
[00:22:53] <zeeshan> some older cars, people wanna put new wheels on em
[00:22:57] <CaptHindsight> for bigger hub caps
[00:23:23] <furrywolf> I have an older car... my problem is non-standard lug pattern, not hub size. :P
[00:23:27] <jdh> heh... I assumed all car hubs were the same.
[00:23:36] <zeeshan> hellllllllll no
[00:23:52] <furrywolf> the usual solution, which I'll probably do one of these days, is to re-drill the flanges for a different lug pattern.
[00:24:18] <zeeshan> whats wrong with hub spacers
[00:24:26] <zeeshan> you can be a ricer
[00:24:32] <zeeshan> and have your wheels stick way the F out
[00:24:47] <furrywolf> a) they don't make them for this lug pattern, b) then the wheels stick out for no reason. :P
[00:25:16] <jdh> make spacers out of stablized wood
[00:25:20] <zeeshan> ROFL
[00:25:31] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i thought you bought a mill
[00:25:35] <zeeshan> why are you complaining
[00:25:44] <zeeshan> all your life problems are solved now
[00:25:52] <furrywolf> the subaru lug pattern is only shared by some weird peugot car that no one makes anything for.... and very few companies make things for old subarus.
[00:26:34] <zeeshan> i think i scared the stablizedf wood guy
[00:26:35] <zeeshan> away
[00:26:38] <zeeshan> when i quoted him
[00:26:56] <zeeshan> its hard to explain to people how involved the manufacturing of something is
[00:26:58] <furrywolf> fortunately, it's the same bolt circle as the standard toyota/nissan 6-bolt, just with 4 bolts instead of 6. so you keep two studs, drill four new holes and press in four new studs, and then you can pick between any of the zillions of available toyota or nissan rims and products. :P
[00:27:00] <zeeshan> when they dont know anything about it
[00:27:16] <zeeshan> what
[00:27:21] <zeeshan> there arre 6 bolt hubs?
[00:27:24] * zeeshan has never seen
[00:28:01] <furrywolf> ... every single toyota and nissan 4x4 truck...
[00:28:07] <zeeshan> oh trucks
[00:28:09] <zeeshan> boooooooring
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[00:29:19] <furrywolf> subarus use 4 bolts, but on the same large bolt circle as the 6-bolt truck rims. much larger than just about any other car... so it's strong, but no rims available.
[00:30:39] <furrywolf> sharing the same bolt circle makes it very easy to modify the wheel flanges. some people re-drill the rims instead, but if you redrill the flanges, you get the extra strength of the extra two bolts, it doesn't look stupid, and you can easily change rims.
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[00:31:57] <furrywolf> the subaru drivetrain is about as sturdy as a 4x4 truck, so only makes sense to fully switch to the truck bolt pattern. :P
[00:32:12] <furrywolf> actually, subaru's axles are probably stronger than toyota. LOL
[00:32:44] <CaptHindsight> do the subarus use birfields?
[00:33:03] <furrywolf> no
[00:33:35] <furrywolf> rzeppa outer, tripod inner. (standard front-wheel-drive CV shaft design, on the rear as well as the front, and nice and thick)
[00:34:10] <furrywolf> people run 33x12.50s on subarus without breaking them... but I know yota people who can change a birfield on the trail in 30 minutes... from practice. :)
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[00:36:10] <CaptHindsight> I've only worn them out, never broken any
[00:36:44] <furrywolf> I've broken one subaru cv joint, but it was worn out to start with. it had been clicking for about six years... loudlyl.
[00:36:48] <furrywolf> loudly
[00:37:42] <CaptHindsight> can you swap the outers over to the other side of the axles?
[00:37:44] <furrywolf> then I made a u-turn on a road up a steep hill, wheel turned fully to lock, with a lot of throttle (very steep hill)... and went about 6" forwards and started rolling backwards. :)
[00:37:55] <furrywolf> yes. subaru axles are the same left and right.
[00:38:23] <CaptHindsight> thats an old swap to get some extra miles out of the clickety ones
[00:38:41] <furrywolf> lol
[00:38:54] <furrywolf> by the time you pull them, might as well just put new axles in. :P
[00:39:27] <CaptHindsight> what! when you can squeeze another 20k miles out of them
[00:39:35] <CaptHindsight> what a waste :)
[00:39:41] <furrywolf> when I get 5-axis working, I want to machine a rzeppa, just for the practice. not for a vehicle, just for a desk toy.
[00:39:46] <Tom_itx> zeeshan ever use abaqus?
[00:40:02] <CaptHindsight> http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/ocdropzone/locker%20install/brokenBEFA.jpg
[00:40:04] <Tom_itx> or Simula
[00:40:41] <CaptHindsight> needs a bit more than just new grease and seals
[00:41:09] <furrywolf> lol
[00:41:33] <furrywolf> I need to learn how to work on the alxes on my jeep truck... I have an ARB and a Detroit waiting to go in them, just need time, energy, money, etc. heh.
[00:42:22] <furrywolf> you know, I wouldn't use any site that displayed such utterly idiotic advertising alongside my images.
[00:43:24] <furrywolf> also, why the hell doesn't abp kill those? I need more filters. :)
[00:49:22] <furrywolf> I got an ARB for the front axle and a Detroit for the rear axle... should substantially improve offroad abilities. it's a 1.5t truck with leaf springs all around, no flex at all... so lifting up a diagonal pair of wheels and sitting there is its usual way of getting stuck.
[00:58:27] * SpeedEvil passes CaptHindsight a big tube of jb-weld
[00:59:40] <furrywolf> 3d print a new axle housing! 3d printing can solve all our problems, right? :P
[01:02:35] <SpeedEvil> there are printers that can
[01:02:47] <SpeedEvil> They do not fit on your desk
[01:03:42] <furrywolf> heh. I wouldn't mind a SLS machine..
[01:04:04] <SpeedEvil> e-beam is just sexy
[01:05:47] <flyback> you could
[01:06:01] <flyback> I seen the shit they are doing 3d printing really intricate sand molds
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[01:10:08] <malcom2073> Hey it's flyback.
[01:10:48] <malcom2073> I wouldn't mind 3d printed sand forms, but lost-pla casting could be cool.
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[01:13:55] <Tom_itx> who let him in here?
[01:14:50] <furrywolf> lol
[01:15:09] <malcom2073> I think he lurks here, and talks once every 5-6 months
[01:15:40] <Tom_itx> best that way i suppose
[01:16:09] <SpeedEvil> Lost PLA casting is already a thing
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[01:27:10] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yes
[01:28:42] <zeeshan> is it friday again
[01:28:44] <zeeshan> !
[01:29:17] <zeeshan> so who here has a 5 axis
[01:29:21] <zeeshan> and wants to make this handles for me? :P
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[01:38:53] <Tom_itx> hah!
[01:39:17] <zeeshan> i quoted himn the price today
[01:39:24] <zeeshan> he's going to get back to me sunday
[01:39:26] <malcom2073> 4 should do it
[01:39:32] <zeeshan> nahh
[01:39:33] <zeeshan> you really need 5
[01:39:40] <zeeshan> to make it easier
[01:39:40] <malcom2073> you'd have to reclamp anyway to get it, even on a 5
[01:39:52] <zeeshan> only 1 reclamp on 5 axis
[01:39:55] <zeeshan> to get bottom
[01:40:05] <zeeshan> my friend gave me a really good suggestion
[01:40:17] <zeeshan> he's like just machine all the important things like holes, pockets, etc while it's rectangular
[01:40:33] <malcom2073> Def
[01:40:34] <zeeshan> and then finsih the surface at the end
[01:40:44] <zeeshan> but my only issue is, i still gotta finish the bottom after again!
[01:41:05] <zeeshan> but his method allows me to stack of them at a time
[01:41:10] <zeeshan> and do the important features on 10 at a time
[01:41:45] <zeeshan> oh well, i dont wanna think about it anymore
[01:41:47] <zeeshan> till he gets back :P
[01:42:21] <zeeshan> i dont think ill be able to do big projects like this in the future
[01:42:31] <zeeshan> i might have a full time job on top of masters starting next week
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[01:59:25] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: wanna make some of these handles? :P
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[02:02:39] <PetefromTn_> you mean the Venus Demilo's?
[02:02:56] <zeeshan> yes
[02:03:01] <furrywolf> monolith defecations?
[02:03:02] <PetefromTn_> why hell no LOL
[02:03:07] <zeeshan> hahah
[02:03:15] <zeeshan> i honestly dont wanna make em
[02:03:19] <PetefromTn_> why are you getting tired of em
[02:03:22] <zeeshan> yes
[02:03:28] <zeeshan> i can do the stainless plates
[02:03:30] <zeeshan> but i dont wanna do the bodies
[02:03:51] <zeeshan> i might have a full time job starting next week
[02:03:53] <PetefromTn_> they are certainly not simple
[02:03:55] <zeeshan> and ill be really stumped
[02:04:01] <zeeshan> i wont be able to make enough of them
[02:04:10] <zeeshan> on top of school and stuff..
[02:04:10] <furrywolf> tell him machining is too much work and you'll mold them from resin instead. :P
[02:04:22] <zeeshan> lol
[02:04:30] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i gave him a high number to machine em
[02:04:35] <zeeshan> hoping he wont accept
[02:04:50] <zeeshan> i really he hope he doesn't -- and outsources them to someone else
[02:04:53] <zeeshan> and i can make the plates for cheap
[02:05:20] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/variacmount.jpg use whatever material those are molded from.
[02:05:28] <PetefromTn_> did you get paid for all the design and CAD CAM work?
[02:05:33] <zeeshan> yes PetefromTn_
[02:05:37] <furrywolf> some form of really pretty phenolic
[02:05:37] <zeeshan> he paid in full
[02:05:41] <zeeshan> its his property now
[02:05:47] <zeeshan> he can go to anyone really..
[02:05:55] <zeeshan> i encouraged him to find somoene with a 5 axis!
[02:06:23] <zeeshan> honestly, if i could commit time for 4 hours per piece
[02:06:28] <furrywolf> by the way, if anyone knows what that material is called, let me know. :P
[02:06:31] <zeeshan> i wouldn't mind
[02:06:37] <zeeshan> if he wanted 5 id be ok
[02:06:48] <zeeshan> but im not setup to do production work, this is my hobby side business work
[02:06:52] <zeeshan> not something i take on for stress
[02:06:57] <zeeshan> which is what this is becoming to be
[02:07:14] <zeeshan> furrywolf: that looks like stablized wood..
[02:07:41] <furrywolf> I think it's some form of cloth-reinforced phenolic
[02:08:01] <PetefromTn_> to be honest it looked like a pretty complex project from the get go it would be hard to be competitive with that unless there was a good bit of money in them...
[02:08:18] <zeeshan> pete he's willing to pay 150 a piece
[02:08:22] <zeeshan> cad
[02:08:33] <zeeshan> inlcuding the stainless plates
[02:08:49] <zeeshan> 40 of each type of stainless plates can be prolly be made in a day or two
[02:08:55] <zeeshan> but the forms are extremely time consuming
[02:08:56] <furrywolf> I wish I'd kept that transformer. I've needed it a few times.
[02:09:11] <PetefromTn_> yeah man there is a LOT of setup in each one of those
[02:09:33] <furrywolf> find him a moldable material of suitable properties
[02:09:43] <zeeshan> furry i suggested that to him
[02:09:45] <zeeshan> but he doesnt want that
[02:09:49] <furrywolf> epoxy granite. :P
[02:09:52] <zeeshan> he's pretty solid on the wood
[02:10:17] <zeeshan> a part like this -- just the form
[02:10:23] <zeeshan> would cost $300 per piece on a 5 axis
[02:10:25] <furrywolf> you only have 3-axis?
[02:10:34] <zeeshan> for it to be made worthwhile
[02:10:37] <zeeshan> yes
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[02:10:55] <furrywolf> that's at least a 4-axis part. 3 means you'll need to build suitable jigs to rotate it without losing alignment.
[02:10:58] <zeeshan> i only have like 5 hours of side business time in a weekday
[02:11:06] <zeeshan> you dont need 4 axis
[02:11:16] <newradio> whats the best desktop cnc machine i can buy?
[02:11:19] <zeeshan> let me show you why..
[02:11:29] <newradio> I'm looking to mostly cut out aluminum parts for my prototypes
[02:11:35] <newradio> gears/bolts etc
[02:11:36] <zeeshan> tormach
[02:11:41] <furrywolf> yes, I know you can do it on 3. but you'll need to waste a lot of time reclamping, or build a rotating jig.
[02:11:43] <malcom2073> Yeah tormach
[02:11:46] <zeeshan> no furrywolf
[02:11:56] <zeeshan> all the surfacing can be done in 2 setups
[02:11:56] <newradio> zeeshan: was that for me?
[02:12:00] <zeeshan> newradio: yes
[02:12:02] <newradio> tormach is too big?
[02:12:12] <zeeshan> tormach looks pretty small to me..
[02:12:16] <malcom2073> newradio: You want to do metal yeah?
[02:12:16] <newradio> desktop cnc please? something i can keep in 2 feet x 2 feet?
[02:12:21] <newradio> malcom2073: yes
[02:12:32] <furrywolf> gears/bolts means you probably want at least 4 axis, which rules out all the cheap machines.
[02:12:48] <newradio> http://www.pocketnc.com/ - i would buy this if it was available
[02:12:49] <furrywolf> you can go with a Sherline with their CNC rotatary table accessory.
[02:12:57] <newradio> furrywolf: look at pocket nc
[02:13:00] <newradio> cheap and 5-axis
[02:13:07] <furrywolf> and non-existant.
[02:13:18] <malcom2073> And not capable
[02:13:26] <malcom2073> That thing would probably cut plastic/wood ok
[02:13:27] <newradio> why non - capable?
[02:13:35] <newradio> in the videos they show alum?
[02:13:44] <malcom2073> Yeah, but what tolerance do they get with it?
[02:13:46] <furrywolf> cheap, 5-axis, existing - pick two. :P
[02:14:12] <newradio> furrywolf: 5-axis + comact = desktop ?
[02:14:12] <malcom2073> Also yeah, it's fantasy
[02:14:13] <furrywolf> that looks overly tiny.
[02:14:13] <malcom2073> doesn't exist
[02:15:05] <newradio> k - whats price range is 5-axis ? existing and reliable?
[02:15:06] <furrywolf> http://www.sherline.com/8540pg.htm with the 4-th axis option.
[02:15:08] <newradio> what size?
[02:15:39] <newradio> sherline looks pretty compact - at least in the picture
[02:15:43] <malcom2073> newradio: 5 axis software isn't cheap either heh
[02:15:57] <newradio> malcom2073: 10k ?
[02:16:17] <malcom2073> newradio: Typically the "email us for a quote" sort of deal, I can't afford to ask.
[02:16:21] <furrywolf> yes, the sherline is quite compact.
[02:16:35] <furrywolf> you're looking at around $3k for the ready-to-make-chips sherline 4-axis setup.
[02:16:39] <newradio> pcnc 1100 - how good is that?
[02:16:57] <newradio> how many axis?
[02:17:10] <malcom2073> I know a guy with the 1100, he loves it
[02:17:20] <furrywolf> how should I know how many axis some random part number you give is? read their website?
[02:17:31] <zeeshan> furrywolf: noob
[02:17:36] <zeeshan> you dont know pcnc 1100??
[02:17:37] <zeeshan> :P
[02:17:58] <zeeshan> the pcnc 1100 is an 1100 axis machine
[02:18:01] <os1r1s> newradio: The one guy I know that bought one had a lot of issues with the electronics.
[02:18:10] <newradio> malcom2073: they say polyphase motion tehcnology - no axis info
[02:18:14] <os1r1s> newradio: Once he got those ironed out he has been happy
[02:18:17] <malcom2073> No idea what those words mean
[02:18:25] <os1r1s> malcom2073: It uses steppers
[02:18:25] <newradio> how many axis does it have?
[02:18:28] <zeeshan> OOO shittttttttt
[02:18:30] <zeeshan> polyphase!!!!!!!1
[02:18:34] <malcom2073> Lol
[02:18:42] <os1r1s> newradio: 3-4 typically
[02:18:44] <zeeshan> serious business
[02:18:47] <furrywolf> actually, $3500 for the sherline, since you'll want the package that includes useful things like a vise, chuck, etc. :)
[02:18:47] <malcom2073> newradio: The guy I know only has the 3 axis, though I hear they make a 4th for it
[02:18:48] <newradio> oh 4-axis kits
[02:18:50] <zeeshan> tormach standard for 10 k
[02:18:52] <zeeshan> is 3 axis
[02:18:53] <malcom2073> Why do you need 5? Making turbines?
[02:19:03] <zeeshan> malcom2073: he's making handles like me
[02:19:04] <zeeshan> :-(
[02:19:08] <malcom2073> lol
[02:19:17] <furrywolf> malcom2073; the things he mentioned sound like 4 axis to me.
[02:19:32] <os1r1s> zeeshan: Why can't you do your handles with a continuous 4th axis?
[02:19:44] <zeeshan> because a 4th axis doesnt help me at all
[02:19:46] <newradio> Gears + wheel adapters + nuts + bolts + shaft encosures + ...
[02:19:49] <zeeshan> it helps maybe reduce 1 setup
[02:19:50] <zeeshan> thats it
[02:20:01] <zeeshan> im posting some pics so we can all be on the same page
[02:20:09] <zeeshan> and i'd love to see you guys' opinion
[02:20:14] <zeeshan> and show you why i dont want to do anymore
[02:20:16] <PetefromTn_> Oh shit more pics ;)
[02:20:19] <newradio> malcom2073: sherline vs pcnc 1100 - how do they compare?
[02:20:20] <malcom2073> newradio: All that is 4th axis territory. Sculptures, turbines, etc require 5th
[02:20:23] <newradio> apart from price
[02:20:29] <malcom2073> newradio: Totally different categories of machines
[02:20:30] <zeeshan> newradio: why are you comparing apples and oranges
[02:20:35] <zeeshan> thats like saying
[02:20:48] <malcom2073> newradio: How does a murcielago compare to a jetta?
[02:20:48] <zeeshan> a car vs bicycle
[02:20:54] <newradio> so pcnc is a car?
[02:20:58] <zeeshan> it can be
[02:21:00] <malcom2073> One gets great gas mileage, one gets you speeding tickets :P
[02:21:01] <zeeshan> its got 1100 axis
[02:21:14] <zeeshan> it was even in the transformer movie
[02:21:43] <malcom2073> newradio: pcnc is a full sized mill. sherline is a hobbiest mill
[02:21:47] <furrywolf> the pcnc1100 is quite a bit larger. it's not desktop. it comes with its own desk.
[02:21:50] <malcom2073> less tolerance, less strength, less capability, but significantly smaller
[02:21:54] <malcom2073> and cheaper
[02:21:58] <furrywolf> the sherline is about 50lbs complete with accessories. :P
[02:22:16] <newradio> how much space do i need to own a pcnc? air conditioned space i am guessing? or can i keep it outside? :)
[02:22:26] <malcom2073> You can't keep *any* machine outside
[02:22:36] <furrywolf> the sherline is much more similar to the non-existant tiny machine you pasted.
[02:22:50] <furrywolf> malcom2073: tell that to my machines. :P
[02:22:52] <malcom2073> You don't need air conditioned space if you're religious about your oiling, but it's highly recommended to keep the space humidity controlled.
[02:22:58] <malcom2073> furrywolf: :P
[02:23:18] <malcom2073> newradio: Are you the designer, engineer, machinest, or all three?
[02:23:38] <newradio> malcom2073: i currently use a 3d printer to print parts for a robot i am working on
[02:23:49] <newradio> malcom2073: the PLA is giving away from the motor to the wheels
[02:23:57] <malcom2073> The sherline will make more than adequate part replacements for that
[02:23:58] <newradio> hence the thought of getting a CNC
[02:24:10] <furrywolf> pcnc 1100 is 1400lbs. sherline is 33lbs.
[02:24:24] <malcom2073> If you have money to burn, or are doing this for a business, I'd get something more serious, but that sherline is probably perfectly fine for home hobbiest use, and as an added bonus, it's tiny and easily movable
[02:24:28] <furrywolf> as you can see, completely different scales of machine.
[02:24:54] <zeeshan> i'd appreciate you guys taking a look at this for 2-3 min:
[02:24:58] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/WuyB5
[02:25:05] <zeeshan> this is the general plan i had
[02:25:07] <furrywolf> you pasted a teeny tiny machine that didn't exist. the sherline is a tiny machine that does exist. :)
[02:25:11] <malcom2073> It will be able to do gears, screws, adapters, enclosures, etc if you stick the 4th axis on it
[02:25:39] <newradio> malcom2073: what size of pieces?
[02:25:49] <malcom2073> newradio: As large as the working envelope of the mill.
[02:25:52] <newradio> furrywolf: do they sell it as a kit or pre-assembled?
[02:26:02] <newradio> malcom2073: how much in inches?
[02:26:04] <furrywolf> newradio: pre-assembled.
[02:26:07] <malcom2073> newradio: Read the website, I don't know
[02:26:27] <malcom2073> You've not told us how big you need, only that you need small
[02:26:28] <malcom2073> :P
[02:26:43] <furrywolf> you can also buy the "cnc-ready" mill for a lot less money and find your own steppers, drivers, and computer.
[02:27:00] <zeeshan> steppers dont belong on a mill
[02:27:03] <zeeshan> but thats just me :P
[02:27:14] <zeeshan> i hope pete's got my back on this one
[02:27:23] <malcom2073> zeeshan: If I had steppers, my mill woudl be running right now
[02:27:24] <furrywolf> zeeshan: the sherline weighs less than each of your servos. :P
[02:27:25] <malcom2073> So :P
[02:27:37] <newradio> malcom2073: 24" x 15" x 15" volume is my total bot - so parts are accordingly designed.
[02:27:38] <zeeshan> send me your mill
[02:27:42] <zeeshan> you're not a good owner of it!
[02:27:43] <zeeshan> :P
[02:27:48] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I still go with what I said before... that device is too ugly to exist. don't contribute to the uglyness of the planet by producing them.
[02:27:59] <malcom2073> newradio: I have no idea what is considered accordingly in your mind. You need to figure out what kind of part envelope you need before you purchase a machine
[02:28:01] <zeeshan> furrywolf: be a help
[02:28:02] <zeeshan> :{
[02:28:06] <zeeshan> dont be discouraging
[02:28:11] <zeeshan> im already quite discouraged in making them
[02:28:15] <malcom2073> zeeshan: How much does it cost to freight 3000lbs? :P
[02:28:21] <malcom2073> Be cheaper for you to buy me a mesa board ;)
[02:28:25] <zeeshan> haha
[02:28:42] <zeeshan> well become donald trump started running for prez
[02:28:52] <zeeshan> the mexicans would bring it to me for cheap
[02:28:57] <furrywolf> are the side pocket and end hole square with each other?
[02:29:00] <zeeshan> :(
[02:29:06] <zeeshan> furrywolf: which step
[02:29:22] <furrywolf> 2B and 3
[02:29:37] <zeeshan> yes theyre square with each other
[02:29:40] <newradio> nomad 883 is 3-axis, right?
[02:30:18] <malcom2073> What is a nomad 883?
[02:30:19] <newradio> malcom2073: 9"x 5" x 6" is what the space coverage looks like for sherline
[02:30:26] <newradio> malcom2073: google - desktop cnc
[02:30:33] <malcom2073> Heh the 883 is a toy
[02:30:40] <malcom2073> It will not do aluminum well
[02:30:44] <furrywolf> and 5 is square with them too?
[02:30:46] <malcom2073> Probably fine enough to replace 3d printed parts
[02:30:48] <malcom2073> though
[02:31:31] <malcom2073> You'll be hard pressed to fit a 4th axis on the 883 though
[02:31:33] <malcom2073> tight space
[02:31:44] <PetefromTn_> what the hell is an 883?
[02:31:50] <zeeshan> yes 5 is square with it too
[02:31:51] <malcom2073> http://www.carbide3d.com/
[02:32:00] <malcom2073> Another kickstarter "EVeryone can own a cnc mill!" kit
[02:32:21] <newradio> malcom2073: they are shipping, - so not just another kickstarter ;)
[02:32:22] <PetefromTn_> I thought we were talking about a milling machine here?
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[02:32:28] <malcom2073> newradio: Not what I meant.
[02:32:34] <malcom2073> newradio: I mean quality wise
[02:32:54] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you made me realize
[02:32:59] <zeeshan> i shoulda posted a fucking coordinate system in the images
[02:33:01] <zeeshan> lol
[02:33:07] <zeeshan> wait ther eis one
[02:33:09] <zeeshan> but its kinda invisible
[02:33:35] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan no matter how you stack it that is a pretty complicated part
[02:33:46] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: but you know man what im hoping is
[02:33:51] <zeeshan> there is some way to machine say each step
[02:33:53] <zeeshan> on 10 of them at a time
[02:33:59] <PetefromTn_> sure
[02:34:01] <zeeshan> so i can just screw off for a while
[02:34:02] <PetefromTn_> its a process
[02:34:04] <zeeshan> and not have to do crap
[02:34:16] <zeeshan> look at the stock im dealing it
[02:34:21] <zeeshan> there isn't much to grab
[02:34:33] <zeeshan> at most i have .25-.375" to grab
[02:34:34] <zeeshan> at the very end
[02:34:47] <newradio> zeeshan: what cad software do you use ?
[02:35:10] <newradio> malcom2073: are there other cnc machines like sherline?
[02:35:10] <zeeshan> i dont use cad
[02:35:15] <zeeshan> those are hand drawn
[02:35:19] <zeeshan> and hand coded
[02:35:25] <newradio> zeeshan: wow - how do you go from there to gcode?
[02:35:27] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[02:35:39] <malcom2073> newradio: I'm sure there are, though I've not looked that hard at machines that small
[02:35:40] <zeeshan> i learned my skills from archivist
[02:35:55] <newradio> malcom2073: what do yo use?
[02:36:20] <PetefromTn_> that part would be a lot easier if you could do it on a fourth axis and be able to screw down the stock from the bottom...
[02:36:36] <furrywolf> my first thought on how to do it would be to start with 5, while the block is still square so no jig needed. then mount to the bottom with a plate (include a couple internal, hidden holes you can put self-tapping screws into if needed). have a couple fixtures this plate quickly attaches to. a right-angle one that lets you mount it horizontal either up or down for 1, 2A, 2B, a 30 degree block for 4, and vertically for 3.
[02:37:10] <furrywolf> then setup is pretty much entirely eliminated.
[02:37:38] <malcom2073> newradio: full size mill
[02:37:45] <newradio> which one?
[02:37:48] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i think it would only simplify step 1 and 2
[02:38:21] <zeeshan> if i had 5 axis
[02:38:23] <PetefromTn_> 1,2,2b
[02:38:40] <furrywolf> I see no reason to ever not do 5 first, since it'll be much easier while the block isn't a stupid lump.
[02:38:40] <malcom2073> I used my dads Excello: http://carpenterswoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/1-Excello-with-centroid.jpg until I get my Clausing running: http://mikesshop.net/millmove/image030.jpg
[02:38:43] -!- Akex_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
[02:38:44] <zeeshan> i could do steps 1 2ab 3 4 6 7
[02:38:48] <zeeshan> in one step
[02:38:55] <PetefromTn_> tilt fourth axis and do the rest but the bottom
[02:38:56] <zeeshan> and then do the bottom at the very end
[02:39:23] <furrywolf> no, don't do bottom at the very end. to do it, you'll need to clamp to your stupid lump. do it first while the block is square. :)
[02:39:34] <PetefromTn_> agreed
[02:39:43] <zeeshan> but i still need to finish the bottom to size
[02:39:53] <zeeshan> so i gotta clamp it anyway?
[02:40:04] <zeeshan> someone else plz do this part for me
[02:40:09] <zeeshan> $100 per piece!
[02:40:09] <zeeshan> <3
[02:40:13] <furrywolf> so profile the 1/4" below it at the same time you're doing 5.
[02:40:17] <zeeshan> let me make a couple bucks on top :P
[02:40:48] <zeeshan> okay then i gotta grab that lumpy pos surface
[02:40:51] <zeeshan> vs a rect block
[02:40:52] <PetefromTn_> a 3d part like that with machining on almost every side should be a good bit more than that price in my view
[02:41:00] <zeeshan> pete 300 right?
[02:41:06] <furrywolf> you know, if I had my shoptask working, I might do it for that... because with suitable jigs (see my suggestion above), there'd only be a few minutes of actual work, mostly just waiting for it to do the two profiling passes.
[02:41:06] <zeeshan> he wont pay more than 150
[02:41:33] <zeeshan> suprisngly
[02:41:38] <zeeshan> those profile passes are 36 mins total
[02:41:47] <PetefromTn_> I dunno I would have to figure out exactly how I was gonna machine it and figure the actual time as best as CAM can tell me
[02:42:09] <zeeshan> according to cam
[02:42:16] <zeeshan> total time to machine is 36 min
[02:42:17] <furrywolf> when doing 5, also cut the block to shape for 1/4" past the bottom. there's no reason to ever put yourself in the place of needed to clamp the profiled shape.
[02:42:21] <zeeshan> not surfacing time
[02:42:30] <zeeshan> surfacing is with a 1/2" ball bill
[02:42:33] <zeeshan> 30 ipm, 3000 rpm
[02:42:38] <zeeshan> 15ipm plunge rate
[02:42:51] <furrywolf> my machine doesn't go that fast. :P
[02:43:02] <zeeshan> seriously
[02:43:03] <furrywolf> actually, I bet I could make those on the sherline...
[02:43:07] <zeeshan> cam is really accurate for itme
[02:43:19] <zeeshan> its usually within a couple mins from the time in simulation
[02:43:21] <furrywolf> (3000rpm)
[02:43:37] <zeeshan> its the setups that brings the job time per part to 3 hours
[02:43:43] <furrywolf> I'd definitely make a jig. other than the first step, which you called 5, I'd never clamp the part.
[02:43:56] <furrywolf> yes. that's why I gave a way to do it with no setups.
[02:44:04] <zeeshan> furrywolf: im not following you
[02:44:06] <zeeshan> if i start with 5
[02:44:11] <zeeshan> and i bore, pocket, face the bottom
[02:44:28] <zeeshan> now i gotta grab the part again
[02:44:34] <furrywolf> bore, pocket, face, and profile a half inch down on the sides.
[02:44:35] <zeeshan> im grabbing in an area where i need to surface
[02:44:36] <PetefromTn_> if there is 40 of them I would be looking at at least 200-250 each and I would get half up front and buy a 4th axis to do them LOL..
[02:44:42] <furrywolf> no, don't grab the part ever again.
[02:44:50] <furrywolf> screw a flat plate to the bottom.
[02:44:53] <newradio> any suggestions for a laser cutter?
[02:44:53] <zeeshan> lol pete
[02:45:09] <newradio> that can cut metal? that can cut acrylic ? Desktop size preferably
[02:45:10] <PetefromTn_> I would tilt the fourth axis for the other ops
[02:45:12] <zeeshan> my friend gave me a cool suggestion
[02:45:16] <zeeshan> he actually said something similar
[02:45:19] <zeeshan> he said machine step 5 first
[02:45:25] <zeeshan> and then shove a rod through the bore
[02:45:29] <furrywolf> if needed, drill a couple holes during the pocketing that you can screw a couple self-tapping screws into, that won't be visible once the project is assembled.
[02:45:40] <zeeshan> and use an expanding mandrel
[02:45:43] <furrywolf> I thought of that, but then you need to bore through in one step, which is a more complex jig.
[02:45:49] <zeeshan> and then now you can grab it however you want from there on
[02:46:03] <furrywolf> and it'd make doing the top harder.
[02:46:30] <zeeshan> are you sure youre follwoing me?
[02:46:35] <zeeshan> :P
[02:46:45] <newradio> malcom2073: do you use laser cutters?
[02:46:54] <malcom2073> newradio: Not yet, it's on my lsit heh but pretty far down
[02:46:57] <furrywolf> I think I'm lagging. heh.
[02:47:08] <newradio> malcom2073: whats on your list next? :)
[02:47:09] <PetefromTn_> expanding mandrel on a wood piece...not the best idea
[02:47:21] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: why?
[02:47:23] <malcom2073> Getting my mill running so I can stop hanging out at my dads house using his :-P
[02:47:23] <zeeshan> you think itll rip off?
[02:47:24] <furrywolf> if you use an expanding mandrel, that'd work. but that's just the same idea as I have using screws to hold it to a plate.
[02:47:30] <PetefromTn_> probably crack it
[02:47:33] <furrywolf> in terms of future setups.
[02:47:43] <zeeshan> pete if it leaves imprints
[02:47:46] <zeeshan> as long as they're symmetric
[02:47:49] <zeeshan> it might actually be beneficial
[02:47:55] <zeeshan> cause we're epoxying the battery tubes in
[02:48:00] <zeeshan> but if it cracks that will suck
[02:48:27] <zeeshan> sometimes i hate myself
[02:48:33] <zeeshan> cause i dwell on this stupid shit for no reason
[02:48:41] <zeeshan> i shoulda never accepted this job from day one :P
[02:48:49] <zeeshan> but noooo i had to be a curious bastard and try something new
[02:48:52] <zeeshan> i need to stay in my cave
[02:48:57] <newradio> does anyone keep their cnc in their garage? :)
[02:49:10] <zeeshan> no newradio
[02:49:15] <zeeshan> but i will keep you in a box in my garage
[02:49:20] <furrywolf> the plate can be simple. the block (with step 5 done, plus the sides trimmed for 1/2" down from the bottom) is fastened to the middle of the plate with screws. the plate could have a raised square area to fit the pocket for a precision alignment. the plate has, say, two holes, a bit away from the block. screw shoulder bolts into these (or any other way of a reasonably repeatable alignment) into the jigs for the next steps.
[02:49:33] <malcom2073> newradio: Most people heh
[02:49:36] <malcom2073> bit big to keep in the kitchen
[02:50:24] <malcom2073> I'm off, night!
[02:50:27] <zeeshan> gnite
[02:50:44] <newradio> zeeshan: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/anybody-run-cnc-mill-out-their-residential-garage-188410/
[02:50:44] <furrywolf> the first jig is 90 degrees. since you drilled the holes symetrically, you can then flip the part over too. do the profile passes. the next jig is vertical, and drills the end stuff. the third jig is 30 degrees, and does the 30 degree stuff. make all these jigs on a single plate that can be aligned with the table, so once you set it up once, every future part is the same offsets.
[02:50:49] <PetefromTn_> do step five on all the parts first indexing carefully, make a plate setup for each to hole them onto the fourth axis, machine the rest using multiple angles of the fourth axis is the only way I can see any sort of repeatable parts
[02:51:02] <newradio> malcom2073: without AC? humidity control? residential garage?
[02:51:35] <furrywolf> I can see this entire assembley in my head, and it doesn't look like it'd take 3 hours to build. :)
[02:51:52] <zeeshan> furrywolf: wanna make em for 100 a piece?
[02:51:53] <zeeshan> :-)
[02:52:29] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: how does the plate attach to the bottom when its machined
[02:52:40] <furrywolf> zeeshan: neither of my machines is working. heh. the sherline is frozen solid (soapstone is evil!) and needs a teardown and cleaning, and then needs a new driver box and linuxcnc so I can get rid of flashcut. the shoptask makes chips, but the electronics are spread out around it, not in the enclosure yet.
[02:52:51] <zeeshan> fix em
[02:52:55] <zeeshan> ill make him wait 2 weeks
[02:52:55] <newradio> 5-axis cnc - only $40k :)
[02:52:56] <PetefromTn_> dunno hehe
[02:52:56] <zeeshan> :P
[02:53:10] <newradio> PRSAlpha cnc
[02:53:14] <PetefromTn_> but I am sure there is a way..
[02:53:28] <zeeshan> i think expanding mandrel is worth a shot
[02:53:34] <PetefromTn_> that plate goes on the bottom or the side?
[02:53:44] <zeeshan> bottom id think
[02:53:45] <furrywolf> zeeshan: easy. make the plate have a raised square that fits the pocket, for repeatability. when cutting the pocket, include a number of small holes for self-tapping screws.
[02:54:07] <zeeshan> furrywolf: damn your non standard words
[02:54:09] <zeeshan> confusing me
[02:54:19] <zeeshan> that raised square is called an island
[02:54:22] <zeeshan> or a protrusion
[02:54:23] <zeeshan> !!!!!!11
[02:54:28] <zeeshan> okay i see what you mean now
[02:54:29] <PetefromTn_> no I mean the decorative plate
[02:54:38] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: theres 2 plates
[02:54:45] <zeeshan> one goes on bottom the other goes on side, the side one has engraving
[02:55:01] <furrywolf> how does the bottom plate attach to the bottom?
[02:55:07] <zeeshan> it clicks in
[02:55:08] <zeeshan> :-)
[02:55:15] <PetefromTn_> I would machine an aluminum plate with a raised boss to fit in that pocket on the bottom of the stock
[02:55:26] <PetefromTn_> put some screws in the meat of the part to hold it down
[02:55:29] <furrywolf> ... isn't that what I said? :)
[02:55:42] <zeeshan> i understand you guys when you're saying
[02:55:44] <zeeshan> how to locate it
[02:55:47] <zeeshan> but i dont follow you at all
[02:55:47] <PetefromTn_> then machine the rest on the 4th axis
[02:55:51] <zeeshan> on how to actually hold it
[02:56:03] <furrywolf> I can try drawing a piss-poor sketch.
[02:56:08] <zeeshan> like whats holding the plate to the wood
[02:56:14] <PetefromTn_> screws
[02:56:16] <zeeshan> its located, but where are the screws going
[02:56:50] <PetefromTn_> into whatever meat will be substantial enough to hold the part and will be covered afterwards with the plates
[02:57:10] <zeeshan> hmmm
[02:57:14] <zeeshan> okay so that'd mean the pocket
[02:57:21] <zeeshan> and and maybe a screw sideways
[02:57:24] <zeeshan> into the big bore
[02:57:35] <zeeshan> but its pretty thin there
[02:57:38] <PetefromTn_> no probably four screws around the big bore
[02:57:57] <zeeshan> you really think an expanding mandrel
[02:57:58] <zeeshan> is a bad idea?
[02:58:03] <zeeshan> ive seen it used on wood a lot
[02:58:07] <zeeshan> but i dont have experience with it at all
[02:58:12] <PetefromTn_> I never have
[02:58:16] <zeeshan> i was imagining the flats that come out of the madnrel
[02:58:22] <zeeshan> would dig in to the bore
[02:58:25] <Jymmm> Why is a water flex line (NOT braided flex line) a "bad idea" going to a shower faucet?
[02:58:28] <zeeshan> so it'd make like a star pattern around the whole thing
[02:59:31] <furrywolf> I'd figure an expanding mandrel would work on stabilized wood, but it'd be harder to make fixtures for.
[02:59:41] <zeeshan> why
[02:59:41] <zeeshan> its round
[02:59:43] <PetefromTn_> you could try it I guess
[03:02:21] <zeeshan> i told this guy
[03:02:26] <zeeshan> give me wood that is relatively same in shape
[03:02:38] <zeeshan> every damn wood piece varies +/-1"
[03:02:46] <zeeshan> in width height and length
[03:02:50] <zeeshan> damn wood workers.
[03:02:59] <furrywolf> that's relatively the same shape.
[03:03:07] <zeeshan> size+shape
[03:03:26] <Jymmm> There are the same size, you are just using the wrong scale =)
[03:04:48] <newradio> is there an online cnc shop where i can ship a stl file and they would give me a price, cut it out and ship it to me?
[03:04:52] <newradio> reasonably priced?
[03:04:57] <Jymmm> furrywolf: you know plumbing code at all?
[03:04:59] <zeeshan> newradio: 500$ / hr
[03:05:19] <Jymmm> newradio: yes
[03:05:25] <t12> lollin @ http://www.peashooter85.com/post/127278259652/degaussing-for-victory-in-the-early-years-of-world
[03:05:41] <newradio> 500$/hour?!
[03:06:04] <zeeshan> make sure your part only requires 5 seconds
[03:06:05] <zeeshan> :)
[03:06:06] <furrywolf> Jymmm: slightly
[03:06:06] <t12> newradio: fistcut
[03:06:07] <Jymmm> newradio: One example, there are more... http://www.internetmachineshop.com/
[03:06:14] <t12> firstcut even
[03:06:18] <t12> not particularly cheap
[03:06:19] <t12> but fast
[03:06:21] <t12> and easy
[03:06:36] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Why would you NOT use flex water line to a shower faucet (NOT braided stuff)
[03:06:37] <Jymmm> ?
[03:06:40] <t12> and minimal human interaction
[03:06:45] <newradio> fistcut doesnt look too bad
[03:07:05] <furrywolf> you asked that before. I had no clue what you were talking about then either.
[03:07:10] <Tom_itx> plumber Jymmm is at it again
[03:07:30] <Jymmm> hang on...
[03:08:02] <furrywolf> Jymmm: do you mean using rubber hose inside a wall?
[03:08:09] <furrywolf> because that's stupid for obvious reasons.
[03:08:32] <Jymmm> No, the same type of flex lien you would use on water heaters
[03:08:33] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: uploading
[03:08:36] <zeeshan> okay
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[03:09:11] <furrywolf> water heater flex lines rely on rubber washers for seals at each end.
[03:09:14] <furrywolf> and will leak. inside your wall.
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[03:09:51] <zeeshan> man i think to be less stressed
[03:09:54] <zeeshan> im gonna work on the car
[03:09:58] <zeeshan> been neglecting it for a while :P
[03:10:07] <furrywolf> http://imgur.com/CLsEcuO
[03:10:14] <t12> i think stress has become a way of life for me
[03:10:15] <t12> its unchill
[03:10:43] <furrywolf> did I mention I suck at drawing? :P
[03:10:46] <zeeshan> furrywolf: cute writing
[03:11:00] <zeeshan> ROFL
[03:11:01] <zeeshan> @ lump
[03:11:02] <zeeshan> hahahaha
[03:11:05] <zeeshan> thank you for making me laugh
[03:11:39] <zeeshan> okay look i see your plate
[03:11:42] <zeeshan> but youre asking me to screw into a part
[03:11:46] <zeeshan> that will be visible in the future
[03:12:01] <furrywolf> no. put the screw holes inside it somewhere.
[03:12:20] <zeeshan> but i like your fixture idea.
[03:12:21] <zeeshan> VERY much
[03:12:36] <zeeshan> it'd mean one part at a time
[03:12:37] <furrywolf> or, use an expanding mandrel.
[03:12:42] <zeeshan> unless i wanna make 10 fixtures
[03:12:47] <zeeshan> yea but i see wha tyou mean now
[03:12:51] <furrywolf> just make sure you don't make it too tight.
[03:12:53] <zeeshan> the expanding mandrel wont be a great thing because,
[03:12:56] <zeeshan> you cant locate off it
[03:12:56] <furrywolf> one part at a time, but very close to zero setup time.
[03:13:03] <zeeshan> with the plate method, it can be located
[03:13:06] <zeeshan> yes
[03:13:13] <zeeshan> well if i make 5 of those fixture plates
[03:13:16] <zeeshan> it might be worth it..
[03:13:25] <furrywolf> do you have automatic tool changes?
[03:13:27] <zeeshan> no
[03:13:34] <zeeshan> thats why i really wanna avoid
[03:13:43] <furrywolf> why the heck not? I thought you had a shiny fancy machine? :P
[03:13:44] <zeeshan> like i rather have 5 parts done in one op
[03:13:49] <zeeshan> its manual tool changer
[03:13:53] <zeeshan> it takes a couple seconds
[03:13:56] <zeeshan> but it requires me to be there
[03:14:03] <furrywolf> rather than makign 5 plates, make one five times as wide. (deep in my drawing)
[03:14:09] <zeeshan> honestly, i can make a temporary automatic tool changer
[03:14:12] <zeeshan> REALLY easily for my machine
[03:14:14] <zeeshan> nothing fancy.
[03:14:21] <zeeshan> i can put 4 tool racks on the sid eof the table
[03:14:23] <zeeshan> the spindle comes down
[03:14:31] <furrywolf> just tig a few alu plates together.
[03:14:33] <zeeshan> and drops tool on ine rack
[03:14:59] <furrywolf> then you can do five parts at once, and re-fixture five at once, all next to each other.
[03:15:02] <zeeshan> well when i see your fixture idea
[03:15:04] <zeeshan> i see an angle plate.
[03:15:06] <Jymmm> zeeshan: and why isn't this automated yet if it's "SO SIMPLE" huh? huh? huh?
[03:15:08] <zeeshan> with a bunch of drilled holes
[03:15:16] <zeeshan> the only thing special is that rib plate
[03:15:55] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i really like this plate a lot.
[03:16:02] <zeeshan> if i can figure out a way to add the screws
[03:16:05] <zeeshan> this would make life REALLY easy
[03:16:28] <Jymmm> zeeshan: midget hookers
[03:16:31] <newradio> zeeshan: what machine do u use?
[03:16:33] <furrywolf> the first part (or batch of parts) you make you'll need to manually locate the part every time you re-mount it. this will require accurately locating some feature on the part, so make sure to have one. after that, the position offsets will be the same every time.
[03:16:39] <zeeshan> newradio: i dont have a machine
[03:16:43] <zeeshan> i AM the machine
[03:16:43] <XXCoder> heys
[03:16:58] <Jymmm> XXCoder: hoe's
[03:17:10] <XXCoder> joe's
[03:17:14] <furrywolf> zeeshan: you can also build an expanding mandrel into the mounting plates.
[03:17:25] <furrywolf> if you don't want to use screws
[03:17:35] <furrywolf> screws, however, don't require building. :)
[03:17:42] <zeeshan> well i almost wanna tel lthis guy
[03:17:46] <zeeshan> look i gotta screw the bottom of this
[03:17:54] <zeeshan> lets cover the whole thing with a stainless plate
[03:17:57] <Jymmm> Cant you use locating pins for realignment of the fixture(s)???
[03:17:59] <zeeshan> not will it hide those marks
[03:18:05] <zeeshan> itll add an accent to the piece
[03:18:12] <furrywolf> an expanding mandrel would be better from a strength point of view anyway. I don't know how well screws hold in plastic wood.
[03:18:21] <zeeshan> welll of theyre long enough
[03:18:24] <zeeshan> i think ti'll be fine
[03:18:30] <zeeshan> i dont have any mandrel sizes
[03:18:32] <zeeshan> in 21 mm
[03:18:33] <XXCoder> my cnc machine bolts arrived woot
[03:18:40] <zeeshan> id have to build like you said
[03:18:47] <Tom_itx> zeeshan! hows the machining coming along?
[03:18:48] <zeeshan> its literally a cylinder with slits
[03:18:52] <Tom_itx> got one to show now?
[03:18:52] <zeeshan> and threads
[03:19:10] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: we're discussing on how to make them
[03:19:12] <zeeshan> really good ideas came out
[03:19:13] <furrywolf> building one of suitable precision for this job wouldn't be hard, but a non-trivial amount of work.
[03:19:16] <Tom_itx> STILL?
[03:19:27] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i almost didnt want to do the job
[03:19:31] <zeeshan> till these guys helped me out
[03:19:39] <zeeshan> so yes, still :)
[03:19:41] <Tom_itx> well i wouldn't wanna polish a turd either
[03:19:52] <furrywolf> heh, the drawing looks bigger in the photo... that's just a postit note. :)
[03:20:18] <zeeshan> furrywolf: move to canada
[03:20:21] <zeeshan> lets start a company
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[03:20:22] <Tom_itx> looks like CATIA is done downloading...
[03:20:24] <zeeshan> :P
[03:20:38] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: whyd you ask about abba ka dabra qus
[03:20:49] <zeeshan> you dont need it!
[03:20:52] <XXCoder> zeeshan: hire me if you start one
[03:20:54] <Tom_itx> wondered if you used it
[03:21:02] <Tom_itx> it's part of their downloads
[03:21:06] <zeeshan> yes, but its really oriented for research
[03:21:07] <Tom_itx> i didn't get it yet
[03:21:10] <XXCoder> zeeshan: cant do fancy stuff but I sure can lots boring parts lol
[03:21:15] <zeeshan> you can do basic simulation in it too
[03:21:18] <zeeshan> but i think ansys is better
[03:21:22] <zeeshan> yea DS makes it
[03:21:29] <zeeshan> haha XXCoder
[03:21:36] <zeeshan> so you're telling me you'd be our machine operator?
[03:21:42] <XXCoder> yep
[03:21:56] <zeeshan> theres a lot of talent in this room
[03:22:01] <XXCoder> why noit? I'm nearing one year experence lol
[03:22:01] <furrywolf> your initial part/batch, as I said, you'll need to accurately locate on the part every step. when you mount it to the 90 degree side, when you flip it over on the 90 degree side, when you move it to the vertical side, and again when you move it to the 30 degree side. Make very sure to note the position offsets when you locate them, so you can re-use them for all the future parts.
[03:22:10] <XXCoder> and pretty cheap lol
[03:22:21] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
[03:22:27] <zeeshan> i honestly would machine my fixture accurately
[03:22:34] <zeeshan> so i minimize that movement
[03:22:47] <zeeshan> a couple thou is okay
[03:22:48] <zeeshan> for location
[03:22:50] <zeeshan> hes not gonna notice it
[03:23:03] <furrywolf> my way is more likely to work. :)
[03:23:12] <zeeshan> it will
[03:23:16] <zeeshan> but why bring error
[03:23:20] <zeeshan> when you can avoid it in the beginning
[03:23:26] <furrywolf> you'll notice your profiling not lining up by a few thous unless you're planning on extensive sanding.
[03:23:36] <zeeshan> hes sanding em
[03:23:41] <zeeshan> im doing 50 thou step over
[03:23:43] <zeeshan> hes definitely sanding it
[03:23:48] <furrywolf> ah
[03:23:50] <zeeshan> i told him if he wants 5 thou steep over
[03:23:54] <zeeshan> he's gonna have to pay me double
[03:24:02] <furrywolf> that explains the unreasonably short machining time you came up with. :P
[03:24:02] <zeeshan> cause its 10 times more time.
[03:24:07] <Tom_itx> send him back a square block with holes in it... sand it bitch!
[03:24:12] <zeeshan> ROFL
[03:24:28] <zeeshan> its funny how my friend 3d printed this model
[03:24:30] <zeeshan> in 4 hours
[03:24:38] <zeeshan> 3d printers are really good for this sort of stuff
[03:24:59] <furrywolf> 5-axis VMCs with automatic tool changers are really good for it too. :)
[03:24:59] <Tom_itx> what's your machine time figure to?
[03:25:00] <Jymmm> http://i.imgur.com/INxXmyS.jpg?2
[03:25:05] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: 36 min total
[03:25:18] <Tom_itx> all i saw was finished cuts
[03:25:23] <Tom_itx> did you allow for roughing too
[03:25:31] <zeeshan> everything is being roughed
[03:25:34] <zeeshan> i aint got time for finishing
[03:25:36] <zeeshan> hes not paying for it! :P
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[03:25:55] <zeeshan> only thing i have finishing on is the for the recess where the plates go
[03:26:14] <zeeshan> btw 30 min of that time is surfacing
[03:26:18] <zeeshan> 4 minutes for pocketing
[03:26:23] <zeeshan> rest is drilling
[03:26:37] <Jymmm> furrywolf: http://i.imgur.com/INxXmyS.jpg?2
[03:26:45] <Tom_itx> how much time for fixture changes?
[03:26:57] <Jymmm> bbiab
[03:27:03] <zeeshan> originalyl 2 hours
[03:27:03] <zeeshan> lol
[03:27:07] <zeeshan> with furry's idea
[03:27:12] <zeeshan> it might be down to 10 min
[03:27:20] <furrywolf> you may need to make your plates have an island the same shape as the bottom of the lump, so you can profile all the way to the bottom, if the shape at the bottom isn't something you can cut 1/2" down at the same time you're doing the bottom pockets.
[03:27:24] <Tom_itx> wasn't following along
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[03:28:31] <XXCoder> holy crap bet that hurt http://boingboing.net/2015/08/17/champaign-bottle-fights-back.html
[03:28:58] <zeeshan> furrywolf: there will be a recess
[03:29:02] <furrywolf> the spelling, it hurts. yes.
[03:29:10] <zeeshan> like the part will be floating higher
[03:29:13] <zeeshan> by about 50 thou to 100 thou
[03:29:17] <zeeshan> depending on what material i can find
[03:29:41] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I mean so your profiling passes don't hit your plate.
[03:29:46] <zeeshan> yes
[03:29:52] <furrywolf> you might need an island on the plate to raise the part off it.
[03:29:53] <zeeshan> thats what im tallking about :P
[03:30:07] <XXCoder> fur did you see gif?
[03:30:34] <zeeshan> the only thing currently pendingabout fixture plate idea
[03:30:45] <zeeshan> is accessing the screws
[03:30:51] <zeeshan> for the 30degree angle plate
[03:30:53] <zeeshan> and bottom plate
[03:31:04] <furrywolf> you'll need an island tall enough to clear your 1/2" endmill and not hitting the mounting screws and/or alignment dowels (if needed) for the plates.
[03:31:08] <zeeshan> i think i can hold this in a vise
[03:31:28] <Tom_itx> softjaws
[03:31:30] <Tom_itx> are
[03:31:31] <Tom_itx> your
[03:31:32] <furrywolf> eh? accessing the screws? the plate just screws down to the fixture.
[03:31:32] <Tom_itx> friend
[03:31:45] <zeeshan> LOL
[03:31:46] <zeeshan> dude
[03:31:52] <zeeshan> i didnt even recognize thats what you were saying
[03:31:56] <zeeshan> i dont think thats needed
[03:32:05] <zeeshan> the fixture is one piece
[03:32:08] <zeeshan> the parts attach directly to it
[03:32:21] <Tom_itx> spin it on a 4th axis
[03:32:30] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: im gonna spin you on a 4th axis
[03:32:40] <Tom_itx> i wish i could
[03:32:44] <furrywolf> the whole reason I have a separate plate is so you can just move the plate between spots on the fixture with good repeatability and no setup.
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[03:33:04] <zeeshan> furrywolf: if the protrussion/island is machined onthe fixture plate
[03:33:09] <zeeshan> that means i can unbolt and bolt
[03:33:15] <zeeshan> as much as i'd like
[03:33:33] <zeeshan> its easier for me to do that than make seperate plates for each part
[03:33:41] <zeeshan> because 1. you dont have to locate this new plate
[03:33:42] <furrywolf> fiddling with wood screws from the underside is a lot of work. two machine screws from the topside is easy.
[03:33:44] <zeeshan> 2. its more work :P
[03:33:58] <zeeshan> yes but imagine the fixture plate raised up on 123 blocks
[03:34:02] <zeeshan> now i have access to the bottom
[03:34:19] <zeeshan> that being said
[03:34:24] <zeeshan> unscrewing and screwing the wood
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[03:34:28] <zeeshan> will likely result in massive failure
[03:34:42] <furrywolf> also, repeatable. if you're clamping the fixture in a vise, removing it, changing screws, clamping it back in a vise, etc, you'll need vise stops and more work to get repeatability. and a few minutes instead of a few seconds between steps.
[03:35:14] <furrywolf> also, you'd need separate fixture positions for the two profiling passes, instead of just flipping the plate over.
[03:35:32] <zeeshan> no you dont
[03:35:41] * flyback soft jaws into Tom_itx's leg meat
[03:35:49] <zeeshan> maybe you do
[03:35:55] <zeeshan> ill need to think about it
[03:35:58] <furrywolf> yes, you do, unless you want to design the fixture so you can clamp it upside down. :P
[03:36:10] <furrywolf> because the base of the part isn't symmetrical, you can't flip it 180 degrees.
[03:36:16] <zeeshan> i know
[03:36:19] <zeeshan> but iwas thinking
[03:36:27] <zeeshan> yea nm
[03:36:33] <zeeshan> i was hoping to locate off box in one case
[03:36:36] <zeeshan> and cylinder of the other
[03:36:42] <zeeshan> but thats not gonna happen
[03:36:51] * furrywolf thinks a separate mounting plate is a much better idea, with the fixture screwed to the table, never moving.
[03:37:10] <zeeshan> i agree
[03:37:11] <zeeshan> its more work though
[03:37:12] <zeeshan> but worth it
[03:37:22] <furrywolf> you can fit the plate and fixture with dowel pins if you need even better alignment
[03:37:29] <XXCoder> depends on part, sometimes its better just have movable jaws secure part
[03:37:36] <XXCoder> but yeah
[03:37:44] <furrywolf> XXCoder: have you SEEN his part? :P
[03:37:45] <zeeshan> yea id definitely use dowels
[03:37:56] <XXCoder> furrywolf: no, could not find link
[03:38:02] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i really like this idea.
[03:38:06] <zeeshan> its growing on me
[03:38:14] <zeeshan> and my brain isn't hurt as much anymore
[03:38:16] <zeeshan> so it must mean it's good :)
[03:38:24] <XXCoder> in one part, it's movable jaws but has one pin for all parts to be aligned
[03:38:31] <XXCoder> top up pin
[03:38:39] <zeeshan> you know one thing i've learned along the years of fabrication
[03:38:40] <furrywolf> I bet you can get the total time per part down to an hour (if your 36min machining time is correct) with my fixture and plate idea...
[03:38:44] <zeeshan> it's better to talk it out before doing it
[03:38:47] <zeeshan> some small jobs, it doesnt matter
[03:38:48] <furrywolf> do as little work as possible? :P
[03:38:50] <zeeshan> but when you get something big
[03:38:50] <furrywolf> lol
[03:38:53] <XXCoder> zeeshan: got link for your part
[03:38:56] <zeeshan> it's really worth talking
[03:39:07] <zeeshan> otherwise you'll be kicking yourself later.
[03:39:29] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i agree 1 hour per piece.
[03:39:34] <zeeshan> mainly because of manual tool change
[03:39:35] <zeeshan> and moving
[03:39:42] <zeeshan> i trust the machining time
[03:39:47] <zeeshan> XXCoder: http://imgur.com/a/WuyB5
[03:39:55] <furrywolf> when it comes to jigs and fixtures, it's a tradeoff... but if you were serious about 2 hours of setup time, and it takes 10 hours to make a fixture to reduce it to 10 minute setup time, then >6 parts it's better to make a fixture.
[03:40:16] <zeeshan> i agree with that
[03:40:25] <zeeshan> but in addition, sometimes if it reduces stress in setting it up
[03:40:28] <zeeshan> even though fixture takes you longer
[03:40:30] <zeeshan> its worth it
[03:40:32] <zeeshan> cause it'll reduce the error
[03:40:41] <XXCoder> interesting part
[03:40:44] <XXCoder> 4th axis?
[03:40:50] <zeeshan> you guys and 4th axis
[03:40:53] <zeeshan> this part isnt a 4 axis part
[03:40:56] <zeeshan> its a 5 axis
[03:41:00] <zeeshan> 4th axis doesnt help it at all
[03:41:16] <XXCoder> it would enable you to have easier time setup
[03:41:19] <zeeshan> no
[03:41:24] <zeeshan> it only combines at most 3 steps together
[03:41:31] <zeeshan> 5 axis combins all the steps
[03:41:32] <zeeshan> except 1
[03:41:38] <furrywolf> XXCoder: not really, because it's a 5-axis part. you can't 4-axis the 30 degree borings, etc.
[03:41:41] <zeeshan> but i guarantee you 5 axis will take longer
[03:41:53] <zeeshan> cause i have to change tools for each part
[03:42:07] <XXCoder> zeeshan: yeah unavoidable, you NEED to mill mount point for next step
[03:42:07] <zeeshan> if i had atc, it would be the best option
[03:42:12] <XXCoder> cant do one step 5 axis
[03:42:13] <furrywolf> you need a 5-head 5-axis machine... :P
[03:42:31] <zeeshan> i hear termites are cheap
[03:42:36] <zeeshan> maybe i can program to each away through this
[03:42:42] <XXCoder> zeeshan: cnc termites
[03:42:42] * zeeshan kickstarters the idea.
[03:43:05] <XXCoder> bump me few k for nice cnc if it takjes off lol
[03:43:10] <zeeshan> haha
[03:43:19] <furrywolf> nah, only with real wood, not your plastic wood. :P
[03:43:19] <furrywolf> you need rats if you want an animal that'll eat plastic.
[03:43:25] <zeeshan> haha
[03:43:37] <furrywolf> stupid fuckers eat the insulation off wiring...
[03:43:46] <zeeshan> but if 3d printing guys can laser cut, cnc mill, and 3d print in one machine
[03:43:50] <zeeshan> then i can program termites to eat plastic
[03:43:55] <furrywolf> lol
[03:44:01] <zeeshan> :D
[03:44:26] <zeeshan> do they actually eat it?
[03:44:29] <zeeshan> or use it for nesting
[03:44:45] <XXCoder> eat
[03:44:53] <zeeshan> lol
[03:44:56] <t12> special termites that eat oiling slots into your mill ways
[03:44:57] <zeeshan> gross
[03:44:59] <furrywolf> if you want to make part movements even faster, you could just use alignment dowels and toggle vises, rather than screwing the plate down... but I suspect a couple cap screws and a long-handled tee hex wrench is just a few seconds.
[03:45:08] <zeeshan> t12: you know those microbots
[03:45:12] <zeeshan> this could be one application of it
[03:45:15] <zeeshan> use em like ants
[03:45:24] <zeeshan> give them a task , and they do it , one small chip at a time
[03:45:30] <zeeshan> it'd take longer than 3d printing
[03:45:34] <zeeshan> but it'd work :P
[03:46:04] <zeeshan> furrywolf: to be honest..
[03:46:12] <zeeshan> if i can make a fixture plate for 5 parts
[03:46:23] <zeeshan> im willing to spend even 5 minutes to move each plate
[03:46:29] <zeeshan> because i can walk away
[03:46:35] <zeeshan> especially during the surfacing stage
[03:46:39] <furrywolf> and do them all at once.
[03:46:40] <Tom_itx> if you use fixture offsets you won't need to
[03:46:47] <Tom_itx> set P2 up on G55
[03:46:51] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: noo
[03:46:52] <zeeshan> i know that
[03:46:55] <Tom_itx> set P3 up on G56
[03:46:58] <zeeshan> thats the plan
[03:47:16] <XXCoder> bullet cnc
[03:47:17] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: http://i.imgur.com/CLsEcuO.jpg
[03:47:18] <Tom_itx> if they don't fit, turn them diagonally :)
[03:47:21] <zeeshan> this is what im talking about
[03:47:24] <zeeshan> furry posted this
[03:47:26] <XXCoder> shooting part to shape it :P
[03:47:33] <zeeshan> the fixture plate is dialed in
[03:47:34] <XXCoder> someone make one, I dare ya
[03:48:09] <t12> getting antsy waiting for leveling feet, qctp for lathe
[03:48:19] <furrywolf> XXCoder: 3d profiling is hard, since you don't have accurate depth control. would be more suitable for tasks that a plasma table would be good for. :P
[03:48:21] <zeeshan> i could really benefit from 15 work offsets
[03:48:21] <zeeshan> for this
[03:48:28] <zeeshan> i forgot how much linuxcnc has
[03:48:28] <t12> i wonder if real leveling will even be possible with the shitty stand or if i'll have to fab a new one
[03:48:30] <XXCoder> lol fur
[03:48:37] <furrywolf> it's not electron beam cutting... it's lead beam cutting. :P
[03:48:50] <zeeshan> dam,n only 8
[03:48:51] <zeeshan> :(
[03:48:57] <XXCoder> fur lots police visits too. unless youre at very remote spot
[03:49:12] <zeeshan> 9
[03:49:14] <Jymmm> furrywolf: http://i.imgur.com/INxXmyS.jpg?2
[03:49:18] <furrywolf> nah, no one here cares if you run through a few boxes of ammo.
[03:49:33] <zeeshan> t12 you got the 12x36 lathe right?
[03:49:50] <furrywolf> Jymmm: that's ugly. what's your question?
[03:49:58] <t12> its an 11x28
[03:50:03] <zeeshan> on the bottom of the cabinets
[03:50:03] <t12> whatever that really means
[03:50:09] <zeeshan> you should have 4 holes on each cabinet
[03:50:13] <zeeshan> just put hex head bolts
[03:50:21] * furrywolf tries to remember if you use purple primer with cpvc
[03:50:25] <zeeshan> 5/8 with 2 nuts
[03:50:28] <zeeshan> it works pretty well
[03:50:28] <Tom_itx> who hired that plumber?
[03:50:28] <t12> it's bolted to the stand well
[03:50:35] <t12> its just the stand is thick sheet metal
[03:50:51] <zeeshan> i mean your stand should have holes in it
[03:50:53] <zeeshan> for bolts to go through
[03:50:55] <t12> it supports it but theres some whole table move if you give it a shove
[03:50:56] <zeeshan> you dont really need leveling feet
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[03:51:03] <Jymmm> furrywolf: THAT's what they did. My issue is that it's not servicable (with a wrench) and that is has to be cut to be changed (repaired). So I felt a flexline or "something" to allow a weench to be used.
[03:51:06] <t12> if i want it level i do
[03:51:09] <zeeshan> no
[03:51:10] <t12> unless theres some decent alternative
[03:51:12] <zeeshan> i mean you can use bolts
[03:51:14] <zeeshan> and hex head
[03:51:16] <t12> oooh
[03:51:17] <zeeshan> lemme snap a pic
[03:51:22] <t12> sorry i understand now
[03:51:28] <zeeshan> you need to use your lathe to machine the bolt heads flat
[03:51:30] <zeeshan> so you have a nice surface
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[03:51:45] <t12> the bolt pattern wouldnt allow for detwist leveling however
[03:51:53] <t12> i could just go measure the twist right now i guess
[03:51:57] <t12> and see how bad it is
[03:52:01] <zeeshan> its prolly really bad
[03:52:04] <zeeshan> like 10 thou bad
[03:52:04] <zeeshan> :P
[03:52:05] <t12> yeah
[03:52:11] <zeeshan> if its really far off
[03:52:18] <zeeshan> lemme show you how i did mine
[03:52:31] <t12> http://www.machinetoolonline.com/sitebuilder/images/PM-1127VF-Large-371x347.jpg
[03:52:31] <Jymmm> furrywolf: like this http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/6a/6aea73d0-a9d3-4d2b-8e19-d5e2ccd982be_400.jpg
[03:52:34] <t12> stand looks like that
[03:53:38] <furrywolf> Jymmm: flex lines will leak with time. they're not allowed by code to be used hidden, for a reason.
[03:53:38] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Other than the ugliness, is it right? proper ?
[03:53:44] <t12> i found someone in the city with concrete floors who can support some real machines
[03:53:50] <t12> i'm going to try and herd some over there for heavy work
[03:54:24] <XXCoder> just trying to figure why 2 pipes need to be connected together
[03:54:24] <furrywolf> hopefully the glue they used was combined primer and glue, because I sure don't see any purple...
[03:54:39] <Jymmm> furrywolf: So I've been told, but doens't seem right that you have to CUT to service
[03:54:47] <Jymmm> furrywolf: there is purple prime elsewhere
[03:55:02] <furrywolf> or maybe you don't use primer for cpvc. I don't remember. :P
[03:55:17] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Ut's yellow sbot stuff
[03:55:18] <furrywolf> cut to service is pretty standard with plastic plumbing systems.
[03:55:20] <Jymmm> snot
[03:55:53] <furrywolf> some fixtures/faucets have built-in unions to avoid this, but that's not what they used.
[03:56:03] <XXCoder> studs not on top
[03:56:08] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I'm frustrated as there is a threaded fitting, then glued in so you can't service it with a wrench, vut I can ALL other fittings in the house.
[03:56:30] <furrywolf> generally you assume the valve body is never replaced, just rebuilt.
[03:56:48] <furrywolf> on most valves, all parts are removable out the front, including the seats.
[03:57:07] <Jymmm> furrywolf: they are installing unions to tomorrow, but only after I had a major issue with it not being servicable
[03:57:36] <furrywolf> why do you plan on replacing it so soon? lol
[03:57:43] <zeeshan> t12: im pretty sure my stand is the same
[03:57:47] <furrywolf> as I said, most servicing is done out the FRONT of the valve.
[03:57:53] <Jymmm> furrywolf: It's probbly 40yo
[03:57:58] <t12> is yours a weiss
[03:57:59] <furrywolf> you unscrew the handle and all parts, including the seats, come out that way.
[03:58:01] <zeeshan> no
[03:58:05] <zeeshan> its 12x36 taiwanese
[03:58:17] <zeeshan> http://www.busybeetools.com/products/lathe-12in-x-36in-2hp-gear-head-craftex-cx.html
[03:58:18] <zeeshan> looks like this
[03:58:28] <t12> nice
[03:58:36] <t12> my choice mainly revolved aroudn weight
[03:58:40] <Jymmm> furrywolf: so you think unions on that are a "bad idea" ?
[03:58:42] <t12> wood floor, hard to get it in from the street
[03:58:43] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/9YxSjfy.jpg
[03:58:48] <zeeshan> can you tel lwhats going on?
[03:58:58] <t12> ahh yeah
[03:58:59] <zeeshan> holy cow i got a lot of chips down there
[03:59:06] <furrywolf> I wouldn't call it a bad idea, other than that it's another failure point... just uneeded.
[03:59:10] <t12> however i have ordered nice feet
[03:59:17] <XXCoder> zeeshan free chips yummy
[03:59:23] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/eFgCwIX.jpg
[03:59:29] <zeeshan> thers even more chips under my mill
[03:59:29] <zeeshan> lol
[03:59:35] <zeeshan> as long as theyre out of my sight
[03:59:37] <zeeshan> :)
[03:59:38] <XXCoder> honestly thats small
[04:00:20] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Ok, then why did you say that was ugly? just the messiness of it or the workmanship?
[04:00:37] <furrywolf> messiness and workmanship are very closely related. :P
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[04:00:46] <furrywolf> use of excessive glue, excessive pipe dope, etc.
[04:01:16] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I agree, but I'd rather them use more than less
[04:03:09] <Crom> ARGH*(&#()*$&#+_*$*^#+_$(#_$*#^$(#&$_+#*)+_( the 3040 is TOTAL JJUNK!
[04:03:52] <Jymmm> furrywolf: thanks for the feedback, noe to continue the search for my airhose I can't find (I hate moving) so I can air up the tire with two nails in it so I can take it down and get fixed under warranty
[04:04:53] <Crom> also been working on geting the K40 laser working with the ebay arduino nano board
[04:05:26] <furrywolf> trying to find a good picture of a valve rebuild...
[04:05:29] -!- newradio [newradio!~piyush@c-68-35-250-254.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has parted #linuxcnc
[04:05:32] <t12> i had a german professor get really mad about chips around the tools in the shop
[04:05:39] <t12> in a german shop you can eat off the floor!
[04:06:21] <XXCoder> t12: the chips off floor? ;)
[04:06:23] <furrywolf> http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy230/wds3r/upstairstubplumbingannotated2_zps35b1788e.jpg there's a shower valve taken apart, at least.
[04:06:48] <furrywolf> all the insides come out the front to allow for servicing without removing the valve
[04:08:07] <t12> xxcoder: i could have come back with that
[04:08:29] <furrywolf> you're supposed to rebuild the valve, and only replace it if there's a major failure or you're remodeling... at which point a couple glue couplers isn't too much extra work.
[04:08:52] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: got your fixtures built yet? :
[04:08:52] <furrywolf> :P
[04:09:53] <zeeshan> haha no
[04:09:55] <zeeshan> im relaxing :P
[04:11:57] <furrywolf> another attachment option would be to machine the bottom, then the top (with the square sides clamped in a vise), then use a through-bolt to hold it to the plate for the future steps... but that's another non-fixtured operation.
[04:12:50] <zeeshan> im happy with what we discussed :)
[04:13:14] <zeeshan> i just need to figure out where to place the screws
[04:13:53] <furrywolf> let's see... how many parts are you making again?
[04:13:59] <zeeshan> 40
[04:14:17] <zeeshan> with a potential for antoher 40
[04:14:27] <zeeshan> (if it goes like shit, im not accepting more)
[04:14:31] <zeeshan> i wont have the time
[04:15:02] <furrywolf> so if I saved you 2 hours per part, times 40 parts, that's 80 hours, at $100 an hour, split the difference... a $4000 consulting fees sounds about right... :P
[04:15:07] <zeeshan> haha
[04:15:16] <zeeshan> i dont charge that high :P
[04:15:28] <zeeshan> honestly, i dont think he'll even come back w/ the job
[04:15:33] <zeeshan> but we'll see
[04:15:37] -!- bobo_ [bobo_!63283ad9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.40.58.217] has joined #linuxcnc
[04:15:43] <zeeshan> hey look
[04:15:45] <zeeshan> its my friend bobo
[04:16:03] <bobo_> Super glue
[04:16:11] <furrywolf> how much did you tell him per part?
[04:16:21] <zeeshan> $150
[04:16:21] <bobo_> for screws ?
[04:16:28] <zeeshan> (basically he told me this is the max amount)
[04:16:56] <furrywolf> if you can do them in an hour-ish, that's reasonable.
[04:17:06] <zeeshan> i still think something is gonna com eup
[04:17:12] <zeeshan> and itll take 1.5 hours per piece
[04:17:17] <zeeshan> and about 10 hours in fixture time
[04:17:23] <zeeshan> (building the fixture)
[04:17:23] <furrywolf> lol
[04:17:33] <furrywolf> 10 hours was my estimate for one, yes.
[04:17:51] <zeeshan> 1.5*40 = 60 hours
[04:17:55] <zeeshan> i can only spend 5 hrs a day
[04:17:59] <zeeshan> and 8 on weekends
[04:18:17] <furrywolf> time to build that automatic tool changer. :)
[04:18:19] <zeeshan> so couple weeks :P
[04:18:27] <furrywolf> and 5th axis
[04:18:30] <zeeshan> nah man
[04:18:35] <zeeshan> im just not gonna accept production job sin the future
[04:18:38] <zeeshan> its too much for me
[04:18:39] <zeeshan> 10 ok
[04:18:42] <zeeshan> 20 no
[04:18:48] <zeeshan> (depending on the size of it)
[04:18:53] <zeeshan> i really like doing one offs
[04:18:59] <zeeshan> like the guy coming tomorrow with wheels to be center bored
[04:19:03] <zeeshan> 4 wheels, easy peasy
[04:19:05] <zeeshan> couple hours done
[04:19:14] <zeeshan> its not a constant headache -- i gotta get these parts out!
[04:19:45] <furrywolf> all depends on the money.
[04:20:03] <zeeshan> dude i most likely will be working at EAton again
[04:20:04] <furrywolf> if he wants 10,000 lumps, at $150 each... make the time. :P
[04:20:11] <XXCoder> zeeshan: one titanium statue $50000
[04:20:14] <zeeshan> sometimes we gotta work 8 hours
[04:20:19] <zeeshan> haha furrywolf
[04:20:19] <t12> doin what for eaton
[04:20:27] <zeeshan> t12 i used to do mechanical design there
[04:20:29] <XXCoder> furrywolf: yeah that'd be GREAT job
[04:20:31] <XXCoder> boring but..
[04:20:37] <zeeshan> my ex-boss emailed me today about an opening
[04:20:43] <zeeshan> and if im interested
[04:20:54] <zeeshan> so im assuming its for mechanical design also
[04:20:55] <t12> i've been thinking more about going to work for FEI
[04:20:57] <t12> if they'd take me
[04:21:03] <t12> cruise around and work on electron microscopes all day
[04:21:08] <furrywolf> eaton, eh? if you're there, tell them to hurry up and make their elocker fit a r180 diff. :P
[04:21:17] <t12> pay prolly isnt too good though
[04:21:19] <zeeshan> furrywolf: haha this is not eaton mechanical
[04:21:22] <zeeshan> this is eaton electrical
[04:21:39] <XXCoder> t12: electron microscope for checking what?
[04:21:40] <zeeshan> t12: i love eaton
[04:21:44] <t12> i'm used to eaton as just electrical i didnt know they did all this other stuff
[04:21:44] <zeeshan> ive worked at so many different companies
[04:21:55] <t12> xxcoder: when i dealt with them it was all for biology stuff
[04:21:57] <zeeshan> this company is so good..
[04:22:01] <zeeshan> the people are awesome
[04:22:01] <t12> but most os for materials work
[04:22:05] <t12> s/os/is
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[04:22:12] <XXCoder> cool
[04:22:19] <t12> some chip fab failure analysis, qc stuff too
[04:22:22] <zeeshan> yea they do vfds, power transmission
[04:22:23] <zeeshan> all sorts of stuff
[04:22:39] <t12> FEI sample stages are pretty impressive
[04:22:44] <t12> repeatable to around 10nm
[04:22:45] <zeeshan> i really enjoy making transmformer bases
[04:22:49] <t12> with... gears
[04:23:07] <furrywolf> want to wind me a new solenoid coil for my mill? :P
[04:23:12] <t12> through a vacuum
[04:23:16] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
[04:23:17] <zeeshan> mechanical!
[04:23:22] <zeeshan> :P
[04:23:28] <furrywolf> I fixed the current solenoid with a piece of romex.
[04:23:32] <zeeshan> haha
[04:23:44] <t12> i should dig up EM pics
[04:23:53] <zeeshan> em's are sweet!
[04:24:03] <zeeshan> i want to use one at school
[04:24:04] <furrywolf> it was easy... I wrapped the romex around the plunger, then around the base, then twisted it really tight so the plunger was held down... :P
[04:24:09] <furrywolf> fixed is relative. :)
[04:24:11] <zeeshan> but its a long process to get access to it
[04:24:13] <zeeshan> and $$$
[04:24:23] <zeeshan> id love to look at atoms :D
[04:24:42] <zeeshan> furrywolf: king of jerry rigging
[04:24:43] <zeeshan> :)
[04:24:49] <furrywolf> I converted it from always off to always on. :)
[04:25:37] <furrywolf> the mill really needs a teardown, and 70 years of maintenance done... but that's too much work.
[04:25:48] <zeeshan> F that
[04:25:50] <zeeshan> use it as is
[04:25:53] <furrywolf> it also could use a Y leadscrew... the square thread looks more like a 60 degree thread on parts of it.
[04:26:01] <zeeshan> really?
[04:26:07] <zeeshan> thats weird
[04:26:15] <furrywolf> lots of hours.
[04:26:15] <zeeshan> it usually has brass nuts to avoid just that
[04:26:22] <furrywolf> whole lots of hours. heh.
[04:26:29] <furrywolf> it has brass nuts.
[04:26:42] <zeeshan> howd it wear out the steel :P
[04:26:47] <XXCoder> groan just got reminded of cartoon all-stars to rescue
[04:26:49] <furrywolf> which I can't adjust, because the adjustment apparantly failed, so someone fucking BRAZED them to the holder.
[04:26:54] <XXCoder> so bad, that movie
[04:26:55] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/spejgizwre094b4/AAC6X06u-oL1cTOtpo3BD-sxa?dl=0
[04:27:03] <t12> theres one of the stages
[04:27:11] <t12> and a FEG
[04:27:19] <t12> and the FEG baking out
[04:27:21] <zeeshan> wow
[04:27:24] <zeeshan> that is some sexy stufff
[04:27:32] <zeeshan> t12 you work there?
[04:27:38] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I suspect this machine was used in a production shop, and has a few gazillion hours of hard use on it.
[04:27:42] <t12> neg thats at my old university job
[04:27:53] <furrywolf> other than the y leadscrew, I can't spot any major wear, but everything is a little loose.
[04:28:08] <t12> i pretend to know how to work on them mainly i played helper for the service guys
[04:28:14] <furrywolf> the knee elevating nut is worn out too
[04:28:18] <zeeshan> cool
[04:28:19] <t12> and shored them up with annoying computer help
[04:28:29] <furrywolf> it's amazing how many parts are in this machine.
[04:28:34] <zeeshan> furry might be worth replacing the nuts
[04:28:38] <zeeshan> and tightening up the gibs
[04:28:41] <zeeshan> and itll make a good machine
[04:28:54] <t12> but its nice to get hands on time on the machines, some of them there are like 10-20 of on the planet
[04:28:59] <zeeshan> you might not even have to do anything
[04:29:01] <t12> so very difficult to get any expirence
[04:29:02] <zeeshan> as long as you do conventional cuts
[04:29:15] <furrywolf> the 3-axis power feed, with 18 speeds, trip stops on all three axes, rapids, and automatic oiling, is about a thousand parts...
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[04:29:23] <furrywolf> gibs are all tight.
[04:29:41] <furrywolf> they're already adjusted so they're sticking out the sides, but they're tight. heh.
[04:29:52] <zeeshan> you know theyre good
[04:29:59] <zeeshan> when you feel a bit of drag
[04:30:05] <zeeshan> or if you hook up an indicator
[04:30:09] <zeeshan> and try to pull on the table
[04:30:20] <furrywolf> I don't think I could lift the table. :P
[04:30:25] <zeeshan> haha
[04:30:25] <furrywolf> this machine is HEAVY.
[04:30:32] <zeeshan> you should be able to shake it
[04:30:38] <zeeshan> if your 100+ lb isnt moving it
[04:30:44] <zeeshan> then thats good, cause you can always take finishing cuts
[04:30:47] <furrywolf> I figure the knee is at least 3/4 ton...
[04:30:51] <zeeshan> and just the shear mass of the machine holds things in place
[04:31:18] <furrywolf> I couldn't observe ANY play in any direction when I gave it the wiggle things test.
[04:31:31] <zeeshan> you really need an indicator
[04:31:33] <zeeshan> to see
[04:31:34] <furrywolf> other than backlash, which it has abundantly.
[04:31:42] <zeeshan> its very hard to feel a couple thou of lash
[04:31:45] <zeeshan> with a big table like that
[04:31:50] <zeeshan> a small slot yea you can
[04:31:51] <furrywolf> close to a full turn of the y handwheel of backlash.
[04:31:52] <zeeshan> but not a big thing
[04:32:01] <zeeshan> lol so like what
[04:32:02] <zeeshan> 100 thou
[04:32:09] <zeeshan> or 200
[04:32:40] <furrywolf> it's a mix of the worn screw, worn nuts, being unable to adjust the nuts, and the bracket the nuts are in being loose, but my being unable to locate the bolts that hold it. I suspect they're under the table.
[04:33:15] <zeeshan> you know what the yoke looks like right?
[04:33:16] <furrywolf> 100 I think. don't remember. haven't cut anything on it yet. lol
[04:33:25] <furrywolf> yoke?
[04:33:34] <zeeshan> http://www.elrodmachine.com/images/Dcp_0415_copy.jpg
[04:33:35] <zeeshan> this thing
[04:33:48] <zeeshan> yuou need to slide the entire table off
[04:33:50] <zeeshan> tgo be able to access those bolts
[04:34:10] <zeeshan> then you remove the bolts
[04:34:13] <zeeshan> and slide the saddle off
[04:34:19] <furrywolf> I don't recall seeing a part that looks like that.
[04:34:45] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzKx92QD8Hk heh if youre curious on that old cartoon movie
[04:34:51] <furrywolf> everything is more complicated because of the 3-axis power feed shafts and gears. heh.
[04:35:05] <furrywolf> and clutches, and lockouts, etc, etc.
[04:35:12] <zeeshan> yep
[04:35:15] <zeeshan> those add complexity
[04:35:44] <furrywolf> each handwheel has a clutch, that's linked to the power feed clutches, so when you engage the power feeds it disengages the handwheel, so it doesn't spin and take out your kneecaps. :)
[04:36:33] <furrywolf> the X power feed involves a bunch of bevel gears and sliding shafts to get the drive up to it...
[04:37:41] <furrywolf> in addition to the 18 feed speeds, it also had a rapid lever... when you press it, those screws spin FAST.
[04:38:42] <furrywolf> the knee has the 3/4hp 3ph motor bolted to it to drive the power feeds... except it's big, the size of a 1.5hp motor. probably because it's airtight, and rated for continual duty...
[04:39:15] <t12> zeeshan: .020/ft end to end in twist
[04:39:22] <zeeshan> lol
[04:39:34] <zeeshan> poor lathe
[04:39:35] <zeeshan> level it!!:P
[04:39:37] <t12> hard to get a good level surface everything is so small
[04:39:41] <t12> yes :)
[04:39:47] <zeeshan> use 123 blocks
[04:39:48] <furrywolf> do you know how many parts are in the 18 speed feed gearbox? :)
[04:39:57] <zeeshan> furrywolf: a shitload
[04:40:05] <furrywolf> yes. :P
[04:40:44] <furrywolf> it also has 18 spindle speeds, with a similar but larger gearbox... 50 to 1800rpm. at 1800rpm it's scary. at 50rpm it's scary too.
[04:40:48] <zeeshan> man the gm parts catalog
[04:40:52] <zeeshan> its 18 gigabytes
[04:40:52] <zeeshan> wtf
[04:40:58] <zeeshan> upto 2010
[04:41:29] <furrywolf> the noise it makes accelerating to 1800 is impressive. there's a LOT of iron in that machine.
[04:41:37] <zeeshan> furry i hate gear drive
[04:41:40] <zeeshan> i got it on the mikron
[04:41:41] <zeeshan> its loud as shit
[04:41:50] <zeeshan> whats weird is
[04:41:51] <furrywolf> it takes about 5 seconds to get there, during which the lights dim and the room buzzes. :)
[04:41:55] <zeeshan> its really loud w/ the vertical head
[04:42:00] <zeeshan> but really quiet with horizontal head
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[04:42:02] <furrywolf> nah, the gearbox is pretty quiet.
[04:42:30] <furrywolf> it's all force-fed oil lube which probably helps too
[04:42:42] <furrywolf> the machine has THREE oil pumps.
[04:42:52] <zeeshan> she's thirsty
[04:43:11] <zeeshan> btw
[04:43:13] <zeeshan> did you win that lathe?! :P
[04:43:17] <zeeshan> any updates
[04:43:17] <furrywolf> one for the spindle, one for the knee, power feed gearbox, etc, and one for the table.
[04:43:18] <furrywolf> no
[04:43:24] <furrywolf> which I expected.
[04:43:25] <zeeshan> how much did it go for
[04:43:33] <furrywolf> no idea
[04:43:41] <zeeshan> faking close bids
[04:43:43] <zeeshan> bastards
[04:43:57] <furrywolf> there's water in the knee oil system, will give it an oil change.
[04:44:03] <furrywolf> not a lot of water, but a little, and some rust.
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[04:44:12] <XXCoder> normal bidding bid guy keeps going till 3 calls
[04:44:23] <XXCoder> ebay it dont extend time if someone do a last minute
[04:44:28] <XXCoder> so less profit
[04:44:32] <zeeshan> XXCoder: wow
[04:44:33] <zeeshan> thats a good idea
[04:44:36] <zeeshan> ebay really should do that
[04:44:39] <zeeshan> that'll stop last min bids
[04:44:43] <XXCoder> yeah no shiot
[04:44:57] <furrywolf> the knee oil system has a 12-way manifold to lubricate the ways and other less-oil-needing parts, plus a main high-flow system for lubricating the gearbox.
[04:44:59] <zeeshan> those sniper bastards
[04:45:04] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
[04:45:06] <zeeshan> thats pretty normal
[04:45:07] <XXCoder> simple rule, as long as there is bid theres one minute added
[04:45:09] * furrywolf is a sniper bastard
[04:45:52] <furrywolf> I don't like sitting at the computer, reloading to see if other people bid, etc... I just fire up jbidwatcher, enter the maximum amount I'd want to pay, and check back later to see if I won anything or not.
[04:46:08] <zeeshan> i feel like buying something
[04:46:10] <zeeshan> Hmm
[04:46:25] <zeeshan> maybe i can find some tg100 collets for cheap
[04:46:47] <t12> what uses tg100's
[04:46:51] <XXCoder> aliexpress?
[04:46:56] <zeeshan> i have a bunch of tg100 tool holders
[04:46:58] <zeeshan> but not enough collets
[04:47:11] <zeeshan> its a step above er collets from my understanding
[04:47:12] <zeeshan> more gripping power
[04:47:28] <zeeshan> like with er collets youre not supposed to hold bigger than 1/2"
[04:47:36] <zeeshan> with tg100 you can hold upto 1 - 1/2
[04:47:39] <zeeshan> from what i recall
[04:47:49] <furrywolf> it has a complex metering system to give the ways enough oil but not make a puddle on your shop floor. :)
[04:47:50] <zeeshan> so that means the physical body is also bigger.. can be a problem for some parts
[04:47:56] <zeeshan> furrywolf: yea
[04:48:01] <zeeshan> it shoots pulses of oil
[04:48:15] <furrywolf> I didn't win the ct40 toolholders either... but I'm not too worried, since they weren't a direct fit for my nmtb40 spindle...
[04:48:57] <t12> i got a big pile of stellite tool bits to grind
[04:49:06] <t12> it will be interesting to see how they behave
[04:54:11] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[04:56:27] <zeeshan> its only 1 am!
[04:56:44] <XXCoder> watching that ricious anti-drug movie
[04:56:49] <zeeshan> which
[04:56:54] <XXCoder> its as bad as I remember it.
[04:56:55] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzKx92QD8Hk
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[04:57:10] <zeeshan> cartoons :P
[04:57:46] <XXCoder> zeeshan: ironically probably can toke something and have really lot fun with that section
[04:57:59] <furrywolf> what, they animated reefer madness? :P
[04:58:17] <XXCoder> furrywolf: probably? never used drugs myself
[04:58:38] <XXCoder> it sure looks like people who made this antidrug movie was smoking something.
[04:58:38] <zeeshan> lies
[04:58:45] <zeeshan> everyone has done drugs
[04:58:51] <zeeshan> i still do them
[04:58:55] <zeeshan> antibiotics my friend
[04:59:02] <XXCoder> zeeshan: in my case, I barely even can use legal ones from doctor
[04:59:11] <furrywolf> no, reefer madness, the movie.
[04:59:14] <XXCoder> I support freedom but I just cant
[04:59:46] <zeeshan> i dont mind marijuana
[04:59:48] <zeeshan> i wouldnt do it myself
[04:59:53] <furrywolf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness that one
[04:59:56] <zeeshan> but it's a natural plant -- it should not be illegal
[05:00:09] <zeeshan> but if you do something stupid while on it
[05:00:12] <zeeshan> you should be held accountable
[05:00:17] <XXCoder> pot? yeah
[05:01:43] <XXCoder> zeeshan: anyway you should watch all in least once
[05:01:47] <XXCoder> enjoy the madness
[05:01:55] <zeeshan> i cant watch cartoons :(
[05:02:03] <XXCoder> why?
[05:02:10] <zeeshan> i duno, not enough attentioin span
[05:02:14] <zeeshan> :{
[05:02:32] <XXCoder> sounds like ADD or ADHD forgot which
[05:03:31] <furrywolf> how about "NGAF"? (not giving a fuck)
[05:03:45] <XXCoder> lol
[05:03:58] <furrywolf> it's not a disorder to not want to sit there doing something pointless and uninteresting for extended periods of time.
[05:04:07] <zeeshan> nah its not adhd
[05:04:13] <furrywolf> like watching TV.
[05:04:14] <zeeshan> i rather watch documentaries
[05:04:25] <zeeshan> ill watch movies too
[05:04:28] <zeeshan> but only some
[05:04:32] <zeeshan> like gravity , interstellar
[05:04:33] <zeeshan> i like those :D
[05:04:49] <zeeshan> but when people talk about shows like the living dead
[05:04:50] <zeeshan> i cant relate
[05:05:05] <furrywolf> bbl
[05:05:13] <zeeshan> brb
[05:05:15] <zeeshan> nite
[05:05:16] <zeeshan> :P
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[06:43:08] <Wolf_> got steppers, drivers, psu, linuxcnc loaded up… just need to add wires and lrn2 use lixux…
[06:43:15] <Wolf_> and type
[06:46:09] <XXCoder> nice
[06:46:18] <XXCoder> I was wondering
[06:46:27] <XXCoder> linuxcnc do have software limits right?
[06:47:57] <Wolf_> vs limit switches? I think so
[06:48:08] <XXCoder> ok
[06:48:22] <XXCoder> thats good, I dont think I will be able to install limits for a bit
[06:48:45] <Wolf_> same here… mine are on the slow boat from china
[06:49:05] <Wolf_> will probably still get here before I’m up and running tho lol
[06:49:24] <XXCoder> I already have em but need to learn few stuff like tapping
[06:49:29] <XXCoder> and figure where to put em
[06:50:32] <Wolf_> tapping is easy
[06:51:22] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/JILty5k.jpg drilled and tapped the column top this morning
[06:51:42] <just_pink> someone know about good 3/8 endmill for steel.
[06:52:03] <XXCoder> plain steel or stainless?
[06:52:06] <just_pink> Wolf_: look very nice
[06:52:13] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:52:16] <Wolf_> steppers arrived and then out the door for this adventure http://i.imgur.com/3FMFNv0.jpg
[06:52:25] <just_pink> mild steel
[06:52:38] <just_pink> the hss that I'm used die
[06:52:48] <XXCoder> hss isnt strong enough for that
[06:52:55] <XXCoder> carbide is better
[06:53:03] <just_pink> burn out after 4 parts.
[06:53:15] <Wolf_> pick a vendor, should have about 400 to choose from
[06:53:56] <just_pink> I want somthing that can work in low chip load.
[06:54:03] <just_pink> about 0.1mm
[06:56:19] <just_pink> sandvik are expensive
[07:01:09] <XXCoder> steel is pretty hard
[07:01:35] <XXCoder> I worked with stainless steel and its even harder. I had to replace tools each 10 or 11 parts and it was carbide which is pretty strong
[07:04:06] <just_pink> XXCoder: how it the carabid endmills from grizzly?
[07:04:22] <XXCoder> dunno sadly. I just use whatever tools company give me]
[07:06:01] <just_pink> XXCoder: you know the breand?
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[07:06:51] <Deejay> moin
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[07:09:01] <just_pink> Deejay: hi
[07:10:05] <SEL> hi
[07:11:28] <XXCoder> just_pink: nope
[07:11:37] <XXCoder> honestly though most would work
[07:12:40] <just_pink> I just dont want to get $150 end mill and distruy it in 5 min..
[07:13:09] <XXCoder> hmm got curious a bit - what size em did you want again?
[07:13:39] <just_pink> http://www.grainger.com/product/SANDVIK-COROMANT-Carbide-End-Mill-22D581
[07:13:45] <just_pink> 3/8
[07:15:22] <XXCoder> bit hard to find inch em at aliexpress lol
[07:15:49] <Wolf_> grainger is my last pick for getting anything (unless you are using a company account lol)
[07:16:51] <just_pink> Wolf_: you have other idea?
[07:19:24] <XXCoder> hard to find specific size stuff
[07:19:32] <Wolf_> www.use-enco.com or http://www.lakeshorecarbide.com or https://www.maritool.com or http://www.travers.com
[07:20:20] <Wolf_> grainger is like a home depot but with 1000% markup
[07:27:20] <Wolf_> http://www.mcmaster.com/#end-mills/=ylowp0 isn’t bad price wise eother
[07:27:23] <Wolf_> either*
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[07:31:14] <Wolf_> hmm, sleep, or go try to set up the new bench...
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[07:33:59] <just_pink> Wolf_: thanks!!
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[07:37:09] <archivist> if your machining conditions are wrong you wreck tooling
[07:40:22] <just_pink> archivist: waht do you mean?
[07:40:45] <archivist> chatter and vibration
[07:41:13] <archivist> climb milling on a machine incapable
[07:41:34] <Wolf_> speeds/DOC too right?
[07:42:30] <archivist> yes
[07:42:49] <archivist> crap material work hardening
[07:43:12] <Wolf_> swtiching to cnc should be fun for me, I have been doing everything by feel
[07:43:36] <archivist> if you have the feel you are most of the way there
[07:44:17] <archivist> someone straight into cnc has missed that important step
[07:45:10] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/JILty5k.jpg ignore the ugly Z hand wheel, that was a oh crap I need one now repair, and yesterday morning I needed to jam it in the lathe and take about 5mm off the bottom of it lol
[07:46:11] <archivist> collet rack is a bit posh
[07:46:47] <Wolf_> :) just some scrap alum tube + two drill bits
[07:47:25] <Wolf_> was tired of them rolling around the bench and ending up on the floor
[07:48:30] <XXCoder> lol
[07:48:57] <Wolf_> ok, gonna set up irc on teh mill box, and wire up the stepper stuffs… should I take a o-scope in with me? lol
[07:49:10] <archivist> I have them in a stack on a shelf or bunched up in a draw
[07:49:34] <archivist> sometimes a scope is needed
[07:49:38] <Wolf_> well, the old bench, the draws SUCKED
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[07:50:49] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/6NvwkBz.jpg the big end mill holders bowed the bottom of it out
[07:52:21] <Wolf_> well, it is a china parallel break out, and I have no idea what I’m doing so maybe I will take the scope in lol
[07:54:48] <archivist> fun part comes where you have optos in series with optos and they are not driven properly, scope finds that easily
[08:01:45] <Wolf_> nice high end scope like http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n541/wolfmetalfab/ESCs%20and%20Electronics/null_zpsc6f06aa1.jpg
[08:01:58] <just_pink> what is better to take deep cut with slow feed rate or fast feed rate with small cut?
[08:02:22] <Wolf_> depends on flex
[08:04:02] <just_pink> I have ton of flex
[08:04:22] <just_pink> Wolf_: ^
[08:04:24] <Wolf_> kidding on the scope too, my DS203 got replaced by a real scope
[08:05:06] <Wolf_> well, deep cut is going to cause a high torque moment right
[08:06:17] <Wolf_> you lean a lot running a flexy bendy X1 manually
[08:08:02] <Wolf_> all machines are different, you need to figure out what works for yours
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[08:17:43] <Wolf_Mill> yay comms up :D
[08:20:15] <just_pink> http://9gag.com/gag/aepQN2W
[08:20:18] <just_pink> LOL
[08:21:46] <XXCoder> just_pink: from what i understand it comes down to ears
[08:21:54] <XXCoder> there is such thing as "good cut sound"
[08:22:07] <XXCoder> unfortunately i will never learn it, being deaf. vibrations is best I can do.,
[08:22:55] <just_pink> I think it's annoying sound
[08:24:07] <just_pink> http://9gag.com/gag/ajnVLwp
[08:24:09] <just_pink> LOL2
[08:28:23] <XXCoder> yummy
[08:35:28] <fenn> XXCoder: get spectrogram app for your smartphone, you'll have better insight into the cutting process than anyone using their ears
[08:35:40] <XXCoder> yeah need to do that
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[08:38:25] <just_pink> http://9gag.com/gag/aq2e8wR
[08:38:30] <just_pink> sooo cute!!
[08:39:03] <XXCoder> check this out just_pink http://boingboing.net/2015/08/17/champaign-bottle-fights-back.html
[08:40:03] <just_pink> brb going to buy Champagne bottle :)
[08:40:11] <XXCoder> lol
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[08:40:25] <XXCoder> bet hes glad it didnt hit between legs though
[08:40:34] <XXCoder> better on side than that
[08:40:36] <just_pink> hehe
[08:45:45] <just_pink> http://9gag.com/gag/a5KXdEL
[08:45:52] <just_pink> OMG
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[08:55:46] <fenn> just_pink: your cutter probably failed because of work hardening due to the steel you were using (not really meant for machining) and too small of a chipload
[08:56:52] <fenn> you had something like 0.1mm stepover right?
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[09:05:59] <archivist> and machining black steel?
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[09:12:00] <just_pink> yes
[09:12:04] <just_pink> 0.1 step
[09:12:12] <just_pink> and blabk steel
[09:12:21] <just_pink> archivist: fenn ^
[09:13:15] <archivist> you are rubbing and wearing out the cutter, you have to get inside the work hardened skin, or get proper free machining metal
[09:13:48] <fenn> try to do 1mm stepover and change depth of cut if it's too much vibration
[09:14:06] <just_pink> now I'm runing new code
[09:14:25] <fenn> also i liked archivist's suggestion from several days ago to just machine an angle into the whole bar at once
[09:15:06] <just_pink> 0.15mm depth
[09:15:24] <just_pink> and 0.2mm radial cut
[09:16:20] <fenn> those numbers don't look right at all
[09:17:08] <just_pink> 0.1 mm depth + 1mm radial?
[09:18:00] <fenn> try more like 3mm depth and 1mm radial, and slow down
[09:18:41] <fenn> 3/8 inch endmill right?
[09:19:59] <fenn> it could be that your part is flexing because of how it's being held. if it's just sticking out of the vise you may need to brace it with some square stock or something
[09:20:28] <fenn> so that the whole assembly is more of a T cross section
[09:20:32] <just_pink> fenn: the machine can't handle it 3mm + 1mm
[09:20:40] <fenn> i find that hard to believe
[09:21:22] <just_pink> now it's allrady runing, and I think it's work nice..
[09:21:37] <just_pink> after that I will try the 3 + 1
[09:21:46] <just_pink> what feed rate to use?
[09:23:04] <fenn> i just googled "feed and speed calculator" and this was the first result: http://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling-speed-and-feed
[09:24:35] <fenn> i plugged in .001 feed per tooth and 4 teeth and spindle speed 3000 rpm, it says 12 ipm feed
[09:24:37] <just_pink> what is Feed per tooth ?
[09:25:07] <just_pink> I cant go over 1000rpm
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[09:25:27] <fenn> ok 4 ipm then
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[09:27:20] <just_pink> 101 mm/m
[09:27:44] <just_pink> with 3mm depth + 1mm radial load - the machine will die!
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[09:31:59] <fenn> these are all pretty standard numbers.. if you are really cautious you can turn the spindle rpm down, but if you have to do that it is probably something wrong with how you are holding the workpiece
[09:32:44] <fenn> endmill is in an R8 collet?
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[09:45:01] <just_pink> fenn: yes.
[09:45:58] <just_pink> but my gib on the Z axis make a lot of problems and vibrations
[09:47:52] <fenn> here is my idea about how to hold the workpiece with a piece of square stock so as to reduce vibration in the workpiece itself: http://fennetic.net/irc/work_buttress.png
[09:48:21] <fenn> you would have to program the toolpath to avoid the square stock of course
[09:49:03] <fenn> if your Z axis is actually messed up, then you should fix it :)
[09:49:03] <just_pink> but I'm going abound the part
[09:49:22] <just_pink> fenn: I don't know how to fix it.
[09:54:20] <just_pink> It's finish 5mm from 20mm
[09:54:23] <just_pink> in 45 min
[09:54:41] <just_pink> 135min to go :)
[09:58:14] <XXCoder> 135 min
[09:58:18] <XXCoder> pretty long lol
[10:00:29] <just_pink> yes..
[10:06:42] <just_pink> someone know about asulotion to shar live stream of video without open ports?
[10:07:38] <XXCoder> not really but you can always upload to youtube
[10:09:07] <just_pink> I want to stream live video from the machine.
[10:14:11] <XXCoder> to internet or to some other computer in your network?
[10:14:19] <XXCoder> latter is vastly easier
[10:14:41] <jthornton> fenn, I've done that many times
[10:16:09] <just_pink> jthornton: what did you do?
[10:16:32] <just_pink> XXCoder: yes, so you can se my machine in live.
[10:16:36] <just_pink> see*
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[10:16:56] <XXCoder> and hear it too I suppose, which is helpful on adjusting feed and so on
[10:17:12] <XXCoder> there is gaming version twitch.tv but its only for games
[10:17:19] <XXCoder> lemme do bit research
[10:18:09] <XXCoder> http://www.overdigital.com/2012/01/03/quick-guide-how-to-setup-your-own-live-stream/
[10:18:14] <XXCoder> may b helpful
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[10:26:48] <just_pink> I'm loking for a driver to my camera
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[10:28:23] <archivist> these nuts are a 5 minute job with a file, you sure are doing it the hard way
[10:29:17] <XXCoder> not as smooth
[10:29:59] <archivist> depends on the file :)
[10:30:13] <XXCoder> I suppose but im sure its less accurate too
[10:31:08] <archivist> its a nut hidden in a slot, accuracy is hardly a requirement
[10:31:57] <Wolf_> die cut threaded plate imo
[10:50:57] <just_pink> http://ustre.am/1qGHt
[10:53:11] <just_pink> someone??
[10:53:19] <XXCoder> cutting pattern is bit strange
[10:53:34] <XXCoder> not sure why it dont just go around cutting nonstop
[10:53:44] <just_pink> there is any way to make it better?
[10:53:51] <XXCoder> dunno
[10:54:07] <XXCoder> just making orveration of what usually goes
[10:54:16] <XXCoder> but im not much of programmer yet
[10:54:32] <just_pink> I want to make it as nonstop running around.
[10:54:47] <just_pink> but HSM express think this is better way..
[10:54:55] <XXCoder> interesting
[10:55:02] <just_pink> 180min!
[10:55:27] <XXCoder> its basically shaving part lol
[10:55:30] <XXCoder> cutting so little
[10:55:51] <just_pink> 0.15 mm depth.
[10:55:57] <fenn> this calculator has more bells and whistles than the other one: http://zero-divide.net/?page=fswizard
[10:56:19] <XXCoder> nice one
[10:56:36] <XXCoder> can lock stats like rpm? because my machine I cant set it to anything besides 27000 rpm
[10:56:58] <fenn> in the live feed it looks like the machine is only pretending to cut
[10:57:07] <just_pink> now I'm runing in 555 RPM
[10:57:15] <just_pink> running*
[10:58:18] <XXCoder> fenn: bah its not allowing me to lock rpm
[10:58:58] <XXCoder> ah max rpm had to be set too
[10:59:41] <XXCoder> fenn: 845 surface speed?
[10:59:47] <XXCoder> inches per min?
[11:00:29] <XXCoder> 47.43 in/min not too bad
[11:02:45] <jthornton> http://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling-speed-and-feed
[11:03:10] <XXCoder> fenn: surface speed is new to me though not sure what that is
[11:03:31] <fenn> omg xxcoder do you just press the green button
[11:03:52] <XXCoder> fenn: well I learned a lot about machine work
[11:03:55] <XXCoder> but not that
[11:04:04] <XXCoder> my internship went backwards lol
[11:04:08] <jthornton> surface speed is how fast the cuttting edge is moving against the material
[11:04:19] <XXCoder> cnc op to manual, manual wasnt complete
[11:04:21] <just_pink> what is "Flute Length"
[11:04:36] <XXCoder> just_pink: length of cutting teeth on tool
[11:04:42] <XXCoder> from start to bottom of em
[11:05:04] <XXCoder> your stream I see its approx 2 inches? hard to tell on scale lol
[11:05:54] <CaptHindsight> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61AUZFo8sjL._SL1500_.jpg the measurement from one end to the other :)
[11:06:26] <just_pink> the part is 14.8mm from left to right
[11:06:27] <fenn> wow that looks like a 3d rendering
[11:06:45] <just_pink> CaptHindsight: lol
[11:06:56] <XXCoder> lol capt
[11:08:43] <just_pink> you can see now aa battery as reference
[11:09:17] <XXCoder> interesting
[11:09:28] <XXCoder> anyway its distance from end of smooth shaft to bottom
[11:10:07] <XXCoder> aa is suffecent lol
[11:11:45] <XXCoder> man i just dont understand hs express logic
[11:11:52] <XXCoder> it looks like tool dance :P
[11:12:45] <just_pink> Other point of view
[11:13:19] <just_pink> XXCoder: ^
[11:13:27] <XXCoder> yeah saw it
[11:13:29] <XXCoder> well
[11:13:35] <XXCoder> its quite slow but seems ok
[11:13:44] <XXCoder> it will wear tools pretty fast
[11:14:14] <just_pink> why??
[11:14:31] <just_pink> what I need to change?
[11:14:56] <XXCoder> like fenn says its cutting too little
[11:15:15] <XXCoder> but I dont know enough to adjust that but fenn did say what to change a bit
[11:15:40] <just_pink> but now everything vibrate like crazy
[11:15:43] <fenn> right now it is only cutting at the very tip of the endmill, so that part will wear quickly
[11:16:54] <fenn> just_pink: do you have a dial indicator?
[11:17:01] <just_pink> yes
[11:17:47] <just_pink> fenn: ^
[11:18:25] <fenn> ok, in order to find the source of vibration you will have to set up the indicator so that it's touching the spindle (with the machine off) and then push on it in various directions. if the indicator reading changes then you know that something is loose...
[11:18:43] <fenn> you push on it with your hands, if that wasn't clear
[11:19:25] <fenn> if the machine is ok then you won't see any change in the reading at all
[11:19:43] <just_pink> I know it's come from the Z axis
[11:19:47] <XXCoder> she'll have to wait till that run is done
[11:19:56] <fenn> heh ok see you tomorrow
[11:20:21] <fenn> oh look a tenths indicator
[11:21:33] <fenn> not sure why we are looking at the z axis lock
[11:21:47] <fenn> that is for manual milling
[11:22:13] <just_pink> look
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[11:24:23] <fenn> the indicator holder is sitting on the workbench?
[11:24:35] <just_pink> I set it to the base of the Z collum
[11:24:41] <just_pink> yes
[11:25:34] <fenn> that doesn't tell us anything useful
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[11:25:53] <XXCoder> besides amount of vibration
[11:26:17] <just_pink> I know that the vibration come brom the head of the Z axis
[11:26:38] <XXCoder> well seems nothing too excessive
[11:26:53] <just_pink> is I'm make the gib tight it reduce some of it but the servo get HOT
[11:27:25] <archivist> vibration can also be resonance due to spring in the column excited by the flute cutting, change speed does that fix it
[11:27:37] <fenn> how are you adjusting the gib? with that black handle?
[11:27:54] <just_pink> yes
[11:27:59] <fenn> ok that is wrong
[11:28:14] <fenn> the handle is for locking the z axis so it doesn't move at all
[11:28:20] <just_pink> annd also with 2 big screws
[11:28:47] <just_pink> but moste of the time with the black handle
[11:29:16] <just_pink> most*
[11:29:33] <fenn> can't fix the machine while it is running
[11:29:48] <just_pink> I know...
[11:30:13] <XXCoder> how much runtime left now?
[11:30:46] <just_pink> I can try.. but I'm sure It's going to distroy my nails..
[11:31:33] <XXCoder> how many minutes left?
[11:31:35] <just_pink> in 6:38 it was 50%
[11:31:43] <just_pink> 90min..
[11:32:07] <XXCoder> ok. well later all gonna sleep :)
[11:32:15] <fenn> me too
[11:32:43] <just_pink> 36 min left
[11:33:16] <XXCoder> nice stream though
[11:33:25] <XXCoder> mybe next time can troubleshoot it some more
[11:33:31] <just_pink> to make the spindle faster or slower?
[11:35:10] <just_pink> XXCoder: camera back to the part
[11:40:51] <just_pink> apple juice popsicle - is the best
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[12:59:47] <jthornton> fenn, the only problem with using <body onload="return collapseall()"> is when you use the page back button they collapse again
[13:04:24] <Tom_itx> still fighting that thing?
[13:04:57] <jthornton> not really fighting but quite annoying when reading to have to re-expand a section
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[13:48:04] <archivist> why not just be expanded as default :)
[13:51:42] <Tom_itx> mmm, lotsa thunder here
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[14:42:00] <PetefromTn_> Morn ;)
[14:45:38] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, it does have cam with it
[14:45:47] <Tom_itx> just got it installed finally
[14:54:47] <SEL> ok, i am unable to make camview work within gmoccapy :-)
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[15:07:04] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yes
[15:07:27] <archivist> SEL, camview is a bit ols and crusty you probaly need to fix it
[15:07:36] <Tom_itx> probably won't use it but it's nice to know it's there
[15:08:31] <Tom_itx> runs on a surface
[15:08:37] <Tom_itx> pro3
[15:09:12] <Tom_itx> that somewhat surprised me
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[15:13:13] <zeeshan> i wonder if there are standard flute dimensions between manufacturers of end mills
[15:13:22] <zeeshan> like your standard ball nose, flat, bull nose
[15:23:06] <SEL> archivist, it works as standalone program but displays nothing in the Camera pane. I have made a configuration 'chain' that works standalone and put it as parameter on the command line, it works but instead of displaying the image in the pane, it fires up camview as a separate window.
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[15:48:43] <Tom_itx> zeeshan there probably are however i suspect each mfg tries to get an edge on the next one
[15:49:49] <zeeshan> yea
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[16:01:25] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150821-aurora-labs-low-cost-100-times-faster-metal-3d-printer-gains-interest-from-nasa.html
[16:01:50] <CaptHindsight> 3D print metal parts at home that still need machining
[16:02:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/images2015/auroa-labs-metal-3d-printing-nasa-00005.jpg unless this is the finish you are shooting for
[16:03:45] <zeeshan> lol
[16:03:52] <zeeshan> looks worse than casting
[16:03:58] <zeeshan> sand casting
[16:04:45] <furrywolf> that's probably adequate for many things sand casting was used for.
[16:05:04] <zeeshan> definitely not a turbine wheel :)
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[16:05:37] <zeeshan> so furry
[16:05:41] <zeeshan> i slept on the mounting idea
[16:06:26] <zeeshan> nothing better than screws came up :P
[16:06:46] <furrywolf> after skimming that article, do they mention anywhere the technology used?
[16:06:59] <furrywolf> bbl, someone here
[16:09:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140923-aurora-labs-launches-s1-metal-3d-printer-on-kickstarter.html
[16:09:55] <CaptHindsight> the kickstarter was stopped, have to read the details
[16:10:20] <zeeshan> The process works by feeding metal powder into a high energy beam heating the powder to around 1600 Celsius where it melts. The printer lays down molten metal layer by layer to produce the product.
[16:10:21] <CaptHindsight> Funding for this project was canceled by the project creator on October 9, 2014.
[16:10:50] <zeeshan> this already exists?
[16:11:09] <zeeshan> its called lmd? :P
[16:12:38] <pcw_home> and this is significantly different from 1960s metal spray?
[16:12:40] <archivist> look up Metal spraying
[16:12:59] <pcw_home> crappier music maybe
[16:13:20] <archivist> yet another reinvention
[16:13:20] <CaptHindsight> looks like Aurora Labs hasn't shipped any printers
[16:14:56] <CaptHindsight> the article makes no sense, why would NASA contact them unless they were violating a NASA patent?
[16:15:08] <zeeshan> LOL
[16:15:11] <archivist> looks like the idea started around 1910 :)
[16:15:29] <CaptHindsight> unless NASA has replaced their scientists with monkeys
[16:15:42] <archivist> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_spraying
[16:16:08] <zeeshan> hey
[16:16:12] <zeeshan> you gave me an AWESOME idea
[16:16:16] <zeeshan> i should get my exhaust manifold thermal sprayed
[16:16:20] <zeeshan> with stainless matter
[16:16:52] <archivist> note it is often porous (good for holding oil)
[16:17:03] <zeeshan> abom79 did
[16:17:04] <zeeshan> it
[16:17:09] <zeeshan> which is where i first saw it
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[16:18:41] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: aluminum would be cheaper and easier
[16:18:47] <CaptHindsight> we could make a kit
[16:18:59] <zeeshan> aluminum wont last on an exhaust manifold
[16:19:05] <CaptHindsight> nah, people would end up blowing themselves up
[16:19:35] <CaptHindsight> yeah, i was thinking farther downstream
[16:19:39] <CaptHindsight> not at the head
[16:19:46] <zeeshan> oh :P
[16:21:50] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: how handy would a sand mold printer be if it could print an exhaust manifold size part in an hour?
[16:22:07] <zeeshan> it'd be handy even if it took 10 hours
[16:22:32] <zeeshan> cause pouring is only 20-30% of cost
[16:23:42] <CaptHindsight> the other option is a water soluble SLA resin for printing patterns
[16:33:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150804-virginia-tech-develops-binder-jetting-3d-printing-to-manufacture-high-quality-copper-parts.html complete lack of technical editing
[16:33:56] <CaptHindsight> "Binder Jetting systems have a relatively high throughput: a 100 nozzle printhead can create parts at up to ~200 /min,’ they explain." 200 what, we don't really know but it's 200 alright!
[16:34:24] <CaptHindsight> "The team is currently working on a way of adding a nanosuspension binder into the polymer glue to fill these microscopic parts on each and every layer. "
[16:34:28] <archivist> salesdriod speak
[16:34:38] <CaptHindsight> ‘“We hope [the binder glue will] improve its sintering performance and its mechanical performance and its electric conductivity,’ Williams told reporters
[16:34:43] <CaptHindsight> We hope
[16:34:53] <CaptHindsight> so no news
[16:35:05] <archivist> we are trying to get some clue
[16:35:32] <CaptHindsight> we hope to solve this problem in the next 20-30 years
[16:35:55] <archivist> wecanhazyourmoneystillthen?
[16:36:12] <CaptHindsight> so they haven't done anything new, they are just using metal powder and binder
[16:37:02] <archivist> reselling old school sintering, naughty
[16:37:31] <CaptHindsight> hmm, I've posted 2 bullcrap articles so far today and haven't been called a hater yet
[16:39:10] <CaptHindsight> archivist: maybe attentions spans and memories are so short today that it's ok to just rehash old tech as new
[16:39:55] <archivist> reinvention has been going on since the wheel was invented again
[16:40:16] <CaptHindsight> the cycle time just seems shorter to me
[16:41:31] <archivist> for entertainment just read early 1900's patent digests
[16:41:57] <archivist> you see stuff that is currently being touted as new
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[16:51:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.parabolicarc.com/2015/08/20/japanese-whisky-experiment-heads-space-station/
[16:52:02] <CaptHindsight> Space Whiskey
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[16:54:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150820-hot-3d-printing-startup-carbon3d-raises-from-google-ventures-and-yuri-milner.html Carbon3D raises $100M from Google Ventures for its ultra-fast CLIP 3D printing technology
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[16:54:37] <CaptHindsight> With all of its series rounds and also the $10 million provided by the Autodesk Spark Investment Fund, Carbon3D now has raised $141 million in total funding.
[17:00:00] <pcw_home> CaptHindsight could have done that but lacks the huckster gene
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[17:08:18] <CaptHindsight> andy wrote a patch for Linuxcnc to sync the continuous Z motion to video
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[17:15:20] <pcw_home> somehow the first thing that made me think of was real time 3D printed action figures from 3D movies
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[18:30:43] <zeeshan> ssi you around?
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[19:25:56] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sDMOa5jqHA
[19:43:29] <t12> carbon3d looks reasonable
[19:45:19] <t12> i guess scaling up the print envelope could get complicated
[19:45:35] <t12> and supports for big stuff
[19:46:02] * SpeedEvil passes t12 a 120" TV
[19:55:11] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Well, looks like it's the axel seal
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[20:05:25] * furrywolf expected that
[20:10:22] <furrywolf> grrrrr. god damn fucking state comp fund raised my rate to 23%.
[20:10:35] <furrywolf> how the fuck do they expect people to stay in business with rates like that?
[20:12:23] <furrywolf> yes, thank you, I just have a fucking quarter of my budget spare to spend on a legally mandated service/tax.
[20:12:56] <MrSunshine> what do you think about making a 3d probe by using a loadcell with an opamp for threashhold measuring
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[20:13:49] <furrywolf> as long as you have some spring somewhere, should work.
[20:14:14] <MrSunshine> push spring and maybe a spring for side load also
[20:14:29] <pcw_home> the trick is spring that recovers quickly
[20:14:40] <pcw_home> and doesnt ring
[20:14:51] <MrSunshine> thereby threashold and hysteresis =)
[20:14:57] <pcw_home> detecting the hit is the easy part
[20:15:38] <MrSunshine> maybe an uc for some trimmable debouncing =)
[20:15:43] <MrSunshine> could be worth a shot =)
[20:15:53] <furrywolf> I guess I need to fire my last employee. I can't afford a 23% rate.
[20:16:17] <MrSunshine> :/
[20:17:03] <furrywolf> california really hates businesses.
[20:17:17] <MrSunshine> sounds like sweden
[20:17:18] <MrSunshine> :P
[20:17:45] <MrSunshine> "oo we want a good small business climate! lets rase the taxes some!"
[20:18:14] <furrywolf> my rate used to be 16%. just got a notice they're raising it to 23%. that is, if I give my employee $1.00, I have to give them $0.23.
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[20:18:31] <renesis> just need an earthquake and a lot of people to move away
[20:18:37] <renesis> and everything will get better
[20:18:51] <furrywolf> since it's legally mandated, they have no incentive to provide you with a good rate, or even basic customer service.
[20:19:02] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: are there alternative vendors?
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[20:19:11] <MrSunshine> we pay over 30% "social tax" on employees .. then they have to pay over 30% tax on whats left of that
[20:19:32] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: no. I tried extensively, and pretty much no one will deal with small businesses.
[20:19:33] <renesis> just use robots
[20:19:41] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: ow
[20:19:48] <renesis> to drive the robots
[20:19:51] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: incorporate in the bahamas.
[20:20:08] <MrSunshine> then we have a tax on having employees :P
[20:20:09] <SpeedEvil> I'm sure there is a way to avoid it if you pay your accountant $100K/year
[20:20:10] <pcw_home> an active damping system might work but this is why most simple probes use the 6 ball approach
[20:20:11] <pcw_home> (its settles and does not move at all until the probe is hit. anything with just a spring will vibrate with every machine motion))
[20:21:09] <MrSunshine> pcw_home: ah true
[20:21:46] <furrywolf> skip the spring, and use a solenoid coil with your accurate position feedback, and tune a pid loop. :P
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[20:23:31] <MrSunshine> but will it have to be spring loaded somehow ?
[20:26:28] <pcw_home> 23% workers comp? are you running a fireworks company?
[20:26:38] <furrywolf> pcw_home: courier company
[20:27:03] <furrywolf> drivers get into car accidents and go on disability...
[20:28:24] <pcw_home> Our workers comp insurer overcharged us for about 5 years we only got about 1/2 back
[20:28:49] <furrywolf> as a rule, insurance companies are crooked.
[20:29:03] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Can you get car insurance to take the risk instead - at high rates?
[20:29:42] <furrywolf> no
[20:29:51] <furrywolf> worker's comp is legally mandated
[20:30:31] <pcw_home> I wonder if uber weasles out of it somehow
[20:30:49] <SpeedEvil> By not having employees
[20:31:03] <pcw_home> all drivers are independent contractors hustle
[20:31:24] <furrywolf> yep
[20:32:30] <cnc11> hi to all
[20:34:48] <cnc11> have maybe someone exemplar for automatic tool-change
[20:35:49] * furrywolf should give up and go work for pcw for three times the income
[20:39:23] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: so what are you? Small buisness employing several?
[20:39:40] <furrywolf> small business with one part-time employee.
[20:39:48] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[20:42:56] <furrywolf> "California has been ranked as the most expensive state for workers’ compensation costs, according to a newly released report." did I mention california hates businesses?
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[20:43:31] <renesis> maybe because california wants people to leave
[20:44:47] <zeeshan> they need to do that here
[20:44:58] <zeeshan> so we can get rid of some ppl!
[20:45:15] * furrywolf votes that renesis should leave
[20:45:59] <zeeshan> has anyone here made professional wiring harnesses before?
[20:46:52] <furrywolf> define professional
[20:47:04] <renesis> furrywolf: im not the one constantly bitching about where i live =D
[20:47:06] <zeeshan> not jerry rigged
[20:47:27] <furrywolf> I've done a few EFI swaps with nice-looking harnesses.
[20:48:00] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: any way to redefine the class of buisness you're in?
[20:48:03] <zeeshan> ive done a lot of harnesses
[20:48:09] <zeeshan> for myself and customers
[20:48:12] <zeeshan> but im looking to change how i do them
[20:48:32] <zeeshan> http://www.ptr.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1000x1000/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/o/complete_race_ki_4e77ef7262380.jpg
[20:48:35] <zeeshan> thi sisn't professional
[20:48:37] <zeeshan> this is shit
[20:48:40] <renesis> buy nice connector crimps and housings, get an expensive crimper?
[20:49:03] <renesis> that looks shitty but thats what some shit in production cars looks like
[20:49:12] <furrywolf> eh? that looks about the quality of most OEM harnesses.
[20:49:31] <zeeshan> in shitty cars yes
[20:49:41] <furrywolf> and a lot better than ford harnesses. :P
[20:50:00] <renesis> only diff is the conduit really
[20:50:07] <furrywolf> how do you propose to improve on it?
[20:50:12] <zeeshan> http://johnreedracing.com/hosting/Corolla%20Engine%20Loom.jpg
[20:50:14] <zeeshan> here's a pro harness
[20:50:21] <renesis> electrical tape isnt bad really, its ugly, but its quick and effective
[20:50:31] <furrywolf> the lower one in that image should have the joints taped.
[20:50:47] <zeeshan> http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/dizlaoboi559/2011-08-14152025.jpg
[20:50:51] <zeeshan> heres another one thats pro
[20:51:12] <zeeshan> really its the way the exterior sheathing is
[20:51:14] <renesis> that shit looks like cheap computer psu crap
[20:51:20] <renesis> doesnt look high temp
[20:51:40] <zeeshan> ssi you there
[20:51:46] <zeeshan> i know youve done real harnesses
[20:51:47] <zeeshan> reply :{
[20:51:56] <renesis> the john reed racing one looks nice, but its prob hours more to build up
[20:52:55] <furrywolf> that doesn't look like a very good harness to me. (the john reed one). not nearly enough grouping of things going near each other, will turn into a rats nest when installed. shrink tubed joints doesn't help any when water can get in between the cables in the bundle. split loom and tape is maintainable and upgradable, that one isn't.
[20:53:02] <renesis> your issue doesnt seem to be pro versus non pro as much as sexy prototypes versus mass production
[20:53:22] <zeeshan> furrywolf: how can you look at a haarness
[20:53:24] <zeeshan> and tell groupings
[20:53:31] <renesis> if you dont know application
[20:53:33] <zeeshan> you dont even know how it's mounted
[20:53:37] <furrywolf> zeeshan: random guess. :P
[20:53:40] <zeeshan> :P
[20:54:08] <zeeshan> ive used split loom in all my old harnses
[20:54:10] <zeeshan> with friction tape
[20:54:19] <zeeshan> it works fine, but its not as compact as it can be
[20:54:22] <furrywolf> I have some of the braid covering in the last image... that stuff is a bitch to work with, makes adding circuits hard, and traps dirt and grime inside.
[20:54:23] <renesis> it looks like it was made by someone who gave a shit about how it looked, and didnt care so much about time or cost
[20:54:52] <renesis> zeeshan: so you basically want a custom cable
[20:54:54] <zeeshan> renesis: why are you so clueless
[20:54:55] <zeeshan> sometimes
[20:55:03] <renesis> if split loom is too nasty
[20:55:27] <furrywolf> I like split loom because it's easy to add more circuits later when your project grows and you realize what else it needs to do.
[20:55:44] <zeeshan> furrywolf: mine is never gonna grow or shrink
[20:55:45] <renesis> probably the weed but a good amount of the time you just dont understand the answers, this is especially true at electronic stuff heh
[20:56:06] <zeeshan> renesis: see even your response to me calling you cluless
[20:56:10] <zeeshan> shows you're even more clueless
[20:56:11] <zeeshan> lol
[20:56:13] <zeeshan> :D
[20:56:56] <renesis> because i noted the racing loom looks like it was made by someone who cared more than a loom made for mass production?
[20:57:25] <zeeshan> because you're clueless enough to compare the two
[20:57:41] <renesis> youre comparing methods used in both
[20:58:01] <zeeshan> man im not wasting time arguing with you
[20:58:07] <renesis> who is arguing?
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[20:58:25] <furrywolf> I don't think that "racing" loom is better. it also shows cluelessness... did they seriously glue the boots to the jacket, but run a big bundle of cables out? water will get into it between the cables, and will be sealed in.
[20:58:26] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i am cleaning up my electrical diagrams
[20:58:36] <zeeshan> so i know exactly what i need
[20:58:56] <furrywolf> also, I think there's way too much exposed cable that should be in an outer jacket.
[20:59:09] <zeeshan> i was giving you an idea
[20:59:12] <zeeshan> of what it's supposed to look like
[20:59:29] <zeeshan> if youre gonna pick on the details
[20:59:32] <zeeshan> i can find you an exact one
[20:59:50] <furrywolf> also, lol @ zip ties. :)
[20:59:50] <zeeshan> http://www.geartronics.co.uk/img/as-loom1.jpg
[21:00:14] <zeeshan> and for your info
[21:00:20] <furrywolf> that's better. probably costs about $1000. :P
[21:00:26] <zeeshan> that john reed one uses gm waterproof connectors
[21:00:37] <zeeshan> so it doesn't need to seal those wires
[21:00:43] <renesis> how is that $1000?
[21:01:03] <renesis> just looks like soft heatshrink and clear heatshrink and sexy connectors
[21:01:06] <zeeshan> renesis: google amphenol connectors
[21:01:12] <renesis> i know amphenol
[21:01:16] <furrywolf> I'm not talking about the connectors... I'm talking about the design of the harness. they use rubber boots glued to jacket, but with multiple conductors running out through the boots. that just fills up with oil and water.
[21:01:20] <zeeshan> then why the clueless question
[21:01:21] <renesis> they make awesome circular and mil spec
[21:01:26] <renesis> their audio connectors are a joke
[21:01:31] <renesis> knockoffs, and not good ones
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[21:02:32] <furrywolf> in any case, I like split loom... my projects are never done. :P
[21:02:41] <zeeshan> furrywolf: so that's just heatshrink
[21:02:46] <zeeshan> they're putting on that entire harness?
[21:02:54] <renesis> furrywolf: noted, but thats still kind of app specific, the sealed parts may be more exposed, they may do more weatherproofing after connection, shrug
[21:02:56] <zeeshan> i thought it was some sort of cover you could pass wire through
[21:02:58] <zeeshan> not heat shrink
[21:03:06] <zeeshan> brtb
[21:03:13] <renesis> its soft heatshrink
[21:03:26] <furrywolf> I need to work on my subaru more, in fact... the ecu isn't happy with some of my transmission switches, and it's also complaining I have no fan relays hooked up to it, which I don't need... I need to toss a couple dummy load resistors in there.
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[21:08:29] <furrywolf> I'm using the body's fan wiring, with its own switch in the radiator, rather than the ecu's wiring... but the ecu is complaining there's no relay coils on its outputs.
[21:10:02] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:27:18] <fenn> you can fill the branch point "boots" with silicone to prevent water ingress
[21:27:36] <fenn> the last harness looks good, all the other ones are crap
[21:28:09] <fenn> geartronics++
[21:28:44] <renesis> i like the labels
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[21:29:34] <fenn> "All Geartronics supplied looms are made using only the very best materials - Raychem Spec-55 wire and DR25 sleeving. All joints & connectors are sealed using either Raychem adhesive-lined heatshrink or, for our 'pro' looms, Raychem moulded joints & boots, sealed using system-25 adhesive."
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[21:30:52] <fenn> you can print the heatshrink labels with a dymo rhino pro 5000
[21:34:22] <fenn> actually i think you can use any dymo d1 compatible label maker up to 1/2" label width (4mm diameter wire)
[21:34:45] <fenn> er 8mm
[21:35:14] <renesis> damn thats awesome but $400 is not cheap for a label maker
[21:35:39] <fenn> you can get the consumer version for $15 now with almost identical feature set
[21:35:41] <renesis> like, bad purchase for an r&d lab, awesome purchase for a cable company
[21:35:50] <renesis> $150?
[21:35:54] <renesis> itll print cables?
[21:36:03] <fenn> i'm not sure
[21:36:14] <renesis> i usually just do normal labels with clear over them
[21:36:50] <fenn> com/DYMO-LabelManager-Hand-Label-Maker/dp/B005X9VZ70/
[21:36:54] <fenn> http://www.amazon.com/DYMO-LabelManager-Hand-Label-Maker/dp/B005X9VZ70/
[21:37:43] <fenn> i think they are phasing these out because there is a new product that uses a USB connection and pretends it's a printer, and that's why they're so cheap
[21:38:05] <renesis> oh
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[21:38:49] <renesis> i have a label maker but that looks cool
[21:39:33] <fenn> "The cassette fits into all Rhino printers. Made of industrial grade polyolefin and featuring a 3:1 heat shrink ratio, these new labels offer the convenience of printing directly on the tubing itself"
[21:39:43] <renesis> i dont think it prints heatshrink but thats still cool
[21:39:59] <fenn> i have a rhino 3000 but the print head looks identical to the label manager 160
[21:40:22] <Tom_itx> i print mine on labels and heatshrink em: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/breadboard_basic_side.jpg
[21:40:44] <renesis> yeah thats exactly what i do
[21:40:49] <Tom_itx> regular paper slides around too much when you're trying to position it
[21:40:57] <renesis> tho never on anything as small as hookup wire, thats pretty cool
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[21:41:19] <fenn> can only do very short label text that way
[21:41:21] <renesis> you use reg clear or adhesive heat shrink tube?
[21:41:32] <Tom_itx> regular
[21:41:50] <renesis> you can do two rows and pretty small font with most label makers
[21:41:52] <fenn> oh you don't wrap the wire with the label, nevermind
[21:42:18] <Tom_itx> it wraps a little bit
[21:42:24] <Tom_itx> just enough to stick it in place
[21:42:38] <renesis> i use reg on 1/4" audio cable, never had an issue with sliding
[21:43:31] <Tom_itx> i tried paper and it slid around too much when i slipped the clear over it
[21:43:43] <Tom_itx> the labels stay put when sliding the tube over em
[21:44:23] <renesis> thats really cool im totally gonna steal that
[21:45:18] <Tom_itx> no (TM) here
[21:45:39] <renesis> i would steal it anyway i prob wont sell many
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