Back
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[00:03:08] <andypugh> I wonder why they sprayed it?
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[00:03:23] <fenn> construction workers mark their own tools so they don't get mixed up
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[00:09:07] <andypugh> Ah, yes, like cavers and climbers mark their gear.
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[00:10:10] <Wolf_> hmm looking at all these cnc mill conversion for bigger mills, I forgot how bad the X1 is built
[00:11:04] <Wolf_> lead screws just shoved through cast mounts with no bearings/bushing nothing
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[00:11:51] <fenn> that's impressive (impressively bad)
[00:12:15] <malcom2073> Heh
[00:12:58] <Wolf_> mine is all galled up on the face between the block and the wheel, explains why the thing feels like shit to turn
[00:14:24] <PetefromTn_> https://greenville.craigslist.org/tls/5127902267.html Now this is what I call a Bandsaw ;)
[00:14:53] <malcom2073> Haha that's awesome
[00:15:08] <Wolf_> meh, only 3 feet of throat
[00:15:13] <Wolf_> :)
[00:15:21] <PetefromTn_> I know right...PUNY
[00:15:31] <malcom2073> I've seen more throat on a.... nevermind
[00:15:49] <Wolf_> I wouldnt want that thing
[00:15:56] <fenn> there is one like that for sale here for $5k
[00:16:05] <PetefromTn_> https://greenville.craigslist.org/tls/5173551556.html This is a nice little guy
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[00:17:47] <Wolf_> bet there isn’t anything good in my area on CL...
[00:19:32] <Wolf_> hmm, $900 bridgeport
[00:20:22] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: But no blade-welder
[00:21:25] <PetefromTn_> it has a blade welder
[00:21:51] <PetefromTn_> well the first one anyway
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[00:22:25] <andypugh> I meant the baby one.
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[00:22:55] <Wolf_> hmm
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tls/5171562665.html
[00:22:58] <PetefromTn_> heh Baby one....
[00:23:08] <zeeshan-mill> hmm
[00:23:11] <zeeshan-mill> nothing blew up so far
[00:23:16] <zeeshan-mill> time to linuxcnc this spindle!
[00:23:21] <PetefromTn_> wells index is a very nice machine
[00:24:37] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/index/
[00:25:15] <Wolf_> I love these kind of ads,
http://baltimore.craigslist.org/tls/5122906301.html
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[00:27:04] <zeeshan-mill> what is a halpin
[00:27:13] <zeeshan-mill> er
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[00:27:16] <PetefromTn_> holds your do up?
[00:27:18] <zeeshan-mill> is it okay to setp in custom.h
[00:27:21] <zeeshan-mill> custom.hal
[00:27:34] <zeeshan-mill> i need to set a pin to a constant value
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[00:27:50] <andypugh> Yes, you can do that
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[00:28:23] <zeeshan-mill> okay
[00:32:51] <zeeshan-mill> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5 3
[00:32:57] <zeeshan-mill> volt measure doesnt read 3v
[00:33:00] <zeeshan-mill> i read 0v
[00:33:04] <zeeshan-mill> hm
[00:33:19] <zeeshan-mill> measure = meter . so many typos today
[00:33:39] <andypugh> is hm2…write added to a thread?
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[00:33:50] <zeeshan-mill> i have linuxcnc open
[00:33:52] <zeeshan-mill> so all the axis can move
[00:33:57] <andypugh> Is realtime running?
[00:34:02] <zeeshan-mill> yes
[00:34:05] <andypugh> Should work then
[00:34:09] <zeeshan-mill> hm
[00:34:18] <andypugh> maybe enable?
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[00:34:28] <zeeshan-mill> hmm lemme try that
[00:36:36] <andypugh> You don’t need to put these commands in a HAL file, open a terminal (with LinuxCNC running) and halcmd -kf to join a running hAL session and accept HAL commands from the terminal
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[00:37:05] <zeeshan-mill> im using the hal config screen
[00:37:10] <zeeshan-mill> but that is awesme to know!!
[00:37:21] <zeeshan-mill> there is only one pin called analogena for the 7i77
[00:37:23] <zeeshan-mill> and its set to true
[00:37:57] <zeeshan-mill> maybe its soething to do with scale
[00:38:05] <zeeshan-mill> 5 might not mean 5v
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[00:40:37] <zeeshan-mill> sigh!!
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[00:45:07] <zeeshan-mill> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-scalemax ; hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-minlim ; hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout2-maxlim
[00:45:11] <zeeshan-mill> whoops
[00:45:16] <zeeshan-mill> i think its something to do with this
[00:45:23] <zeeshan-mill> these are considered pins right?
[00:47:03] <zeeshan-mill> nope its not a pin
[00:50:43] <andypugh> Params, but you can setp them
[00:51:01] <andypugh> Don’t use the HAL config screen, it’s painful
[00:51:16] <andypugh> The terminal version gets tab-completion and command history
[00:51:18] <zeeshan-mill> haha yea the method you told me
[00:51:20] <zeeshan-mill> helps a lot
[00:51:23] <zeeshan-mill> you can copy and paste into it too
[00:51:33] <zeeshan-mill> looks like its nothing to do with scalemax
[00:51:35] <Wolf_> x/y axis crappy lead screw setup, what type of bearings would be recommend other then angular? things have a 8mm shaft on this pos
[00:51:38] <andypugh> tab completion is te best bit
[00:51:38] <zeeshan-mill> they are just setting -10 to 10v
[00:51:39] <zeeshan-mill> which seems right
[00:52:19] <andypugh> Sorry not to be more help, but I need to sleep
[00:52:21] <andypugh> Night all
[00:52:23] <zeeshan-mill> nite!
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[01:03:28] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, you around? :)
[01:05:45] <zeeshan-mill> found the pin!!!
[01:05:46] <zeeshan-mill> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[01:05:54] <zeeshan-mill> darn i guess that has to be enabled for it to work!
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[01:41:36] <zeeshan|2> if i measure 24v when output is enabled through 7i77, and 0v when it is disabled
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[01:41:53] <zeeshan|2> could i still have an error with how i've hooked it up with the load?
[01:43:34] <Tom_itx> uh oh
[01:44:13] <zeeshan|2> confused as hell
[01:44:25] <zeeshan|2> its reading the desired voltage at analog out physically
[01:44:31] <zeeshan|2> but the spindle won't spin!
[01:44:45] <Tom_itx> pull the rope start
[01:44:59] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: help me!
[01:45:03] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/Hl1X0Ro.jpg
[01:45:10] <zeeshan|2> i've got it wired like bottom right
[01:45:23] <Tom_itx> holy crap
[01:45:34] <zeeshan|2> because im not using the internal supply of the vfd
[01:45:43] <zeeshan|2> and my output module is a "source" type
[01:45:48] <zeeshan|2> since 7i77 is sourcing outputs
[01:45:58] <zeeshan|2> did i wire it right? :P
[01:46:10] <Tom_itx> com goes to GND?
[01:46:19] <Tom_itx> i don't have a 7i77
[01:46:43] <zeeshan|2> 7i77 internally grounds the 24v supply
[01:46:51] <zeeshan|2> through the field power pins
[01:47:03] <zeeshan|2> so you give it 24vdc @ field power, and ground of the power supply
[01:47:24] <Tom_itx> is field power isolated?
[01:47:37] <Tom_itx> if it is, you need the other end of that as GND i presume
[01:47:58] * zeeshan|2 thinks
[01:48:07] <Tom_itx> lemme finish up here and i'll look
[01:50:34] <zeeshan|2> ive got it wired wrong
[01:50:35] <Tom_itx> pin 8 of the field power plug
[01:50:44] <zeeshan|2> it should be like top right
[01:50:46] <zeeshan|2> not bottom right
[01:50:53] <zeeshan|2> im looking at my old output wiring
[01:51:01] <zeeshan|2> 7i77 -> load -> ground
[01:51:18] <zeeshan|2> 7i77 outputxx -> load -> ground
[01:51:23] <zeeshan|2> thats how it is wired
[01:51:32] <zeeshan|2> if i follow the bottom right diagram in that image i posted
[01:51:33] <Tom_itx> pin 8 as gnd?
[01:51:39] <zeeshan|2> lemme check
[01:52:02] <zeeshan|2> yes its ground
[01:52:18] <zeeshan|2> and pin 5 is vin
[01:52:23] <Wolf_> damn I can’t seem to find 8mm angular contact bearings
[01:52:26] <zeeshan|2> and ive got the jumper set
[01:52:30] <zeeshan|2> so all vfields are shorted together
[01:52:49] <zeeshan|2> so if you look at the bottom right diagram
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[01:52:52] <zeeshan|2> its basically saying this
[01:53:16] <Tom_itx> u just said bottom right was wrong
[01:53:33] <zeeshan|2> 24v enters through pcs pin, goes through some circuit comes out fr, goes through mesa
[01:53:36] <zeeshan|2> which is supposed to ground it internally
[01:53:46] <zeeshan|2> unless im thinking about it wrong.
[01:55:35] <zeeshan|2> its just 2 wires to swap
[01:55:43] <zeeshan|2> i gotta ground bc
[01:55:47] <zeeshan|2> instead of giving 24vdc to pcs
[01:55:59] <zeeshan|2> so 1 wire to swap :P
[01:56:13] <zeeshan|2> hopefully idont fry anything |:P
[01:56:26] <Tom_itx> that's not what either of those diagrams show
[01:56:36] <Tom_itx> why gnd bc?
[01:57:12] <Tom_itx> those both show BC to source
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[02:02:13] <zeeshan-mill> no fire yet
[02:04:46] <zeeshan-mill> ok something clearly wrong
[02:04:52] <zeeshan-mill> when i turn on the output it reads 24
[02:04:53] <zeeshan-mill> when its off
[02:04:55] <zeeshan-mill> it reads 18 :P
[02:05:00] <zeeshan-mill> so maybe idid have it wired up right before
[02:09:29] <Tom_itx> source type with outside power?
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[02:09:33] <Tom_itx> lower right
[02:11:22] <zeeshan-mill> i think i fried something
[02:11:33] <zeeshan-mill> Tom_itx, yes i had it wired up as source type outside power
[02:11:39] <zeeshan-mill> and when i measured on it output 24
[02:11:43] <zeeshan-mill> and when i measured off it output 0
[02:11:51] <zeeshan-mill> then i swapped to wiring like the top right
[02:11:59] <zeeshan-mill> and it read 24when on and 18 when off
[02:12:07] <zeeshan-mill> i swapped the wires again back to the original
[02:12:10] <zeeshan-mill> and now its doing the same thing
[02:12:14] <zeeshan-mill> 24v on 18v off
[02:13:05] <zeeshan-mill> actually its floating at 20V
[02:13:06] <zeeshan-mill> now
[02:13:10] <zeeshan-mill> not 0
[02:15:07] <Wolf_> missing pull down?
[02:15:23] <zeeshan-mill> i think i fried something on the 7i7
[02:15:24] <zeeshan-mill> 7
[02:15:26] <zeeshan-mill> output side
[02:15:27] <Wolf_> or cooked it
[02:16:25] <zeeshan-mill> WTF is going on here
[02:16:34] <zeeshan-mill> if i turn both outputs 04 and 05 off
[02:16:38] <zeeshan-mill> which is what i have wired
[02:16:40] <zeeshan-mill> then they both read 0
[02:16:43] <zeeshan-mill> but if i enable one of them
[02:16:54] <zeeshan-mill> then one reads 24v the other reads 20v
[02:16:58] <zeeshan-mill> HMM?
[02:17:15] <Wolf_> thats with nothing connected?
[02:17:23] <zeeshan-mill> no thats with wires connected
[02:17:47] <Wolf_> loop back?
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[02:31:21] <furrywolf> I bid $550 on each lathe... not going to win the mori seiki. other people were discussing how many thousands to bid. heh.
[02:32:22] <furrywolf> absolutely beautiful condition machine
[02:33:18] <furrywolf> they got rid of it because last week the Haas rep finished sitting up their brand new turning center with a modern control and live tooling...
[02:33:23] <furrywolf> setting up
[02:33:39] <zeeshan-mill> i hope you get it
[02:33:42] <furrywolf> they haven't even made chips on their new machine yet. heh.
[02:33:45] <zeeshan-mill> were there a lot of people there?
[02:33:46] <furrywolf> I won't.
[02:34:01] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 Hey man ya got a sec for a tig question?
[02:34:06] <furrywolf> I know one guy was talking about bidding $6k but decided to knock a thousand off because the control lost its settings when the battery died.
[02:35:05] <furrywolf> apparantly you have to reenter all the parameters manually and it takes three weeks. ouch.
[02:35:55] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, did it make you feel better just to bid?
[02:36:26] <furrywolf> no, it pissed me off that I don't have a house to put it in, which is why I bid so low.
[02:36:51] <furrywolf> I'd already placed my bid then anyway. heh.
[02:36:58] <Tom_itx> they don't give out the parameters either
[02:37:40] <furrywolf> my plan was linuxcnc, but the guy that's probably going to win it was planning on using the original control.
[02:38:22] <PetefromTn_> heh so you bid on a bigass CNC lathe and you have nowhere to put it
[02:38:45] <furrywolf> he owns a machine shop a while south and seemed to have an actual money-bringing-in use for it.
[02:39:00] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: would you let that stop you? :P
[02:39:10] <PetefromTn_> well...yeah
[02:39:23] * furrywolf has several tarps
[02:39:37] <PetefromTn_> what's that old adage.... before you lift an elephant it is a good idea to know where you are gonna set it down LOL
[02:39:47] <furrywolf> lol
[02:40:04] <furrywolf> and lifting it would be fun, since they said their forklift went up at the back instead of the front when they tried moving it. :)
[02:40:11] <PetefromTn_> I've been to a couple auctions so I know how EASY it is to get caught up in the excitement tho..
[02:40:43] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harris-308L-Stainless-Steel-TIG-Rod-045-x-36-1LB-308LTHO-/371402123986?hash=item56794aaad2 anyone ever use harris Tig rods?
[02:41:00] * furrywolf still needs a tig welder
[02:42:25] <furrywolf> I also bid $550 on the harrison lathe... it's in good shape other than a bad halfnut.
[02:42:48] <furrywolf> it's a much more reasonable size and power requirements.
[02:43:02] <furrywolf> the mori seiki label said it draws a continuous 19.something kW!
[02:45:33] <furrywolf> it draws more power than most houses here have available.
[02:45:52] <furrywolf> unless it's a grow house. they always upgrade to 200A service. :)
[02:49:12] <furrywolf> the harrison is 3hp, which I can run off my rotary converter, and everything felt nice and smooth, except, as the seller warned me, the half-nut popped out randomly.
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[02:50:09] <furrywolf> however, I doubt I'm winning it either.
[02:50:26] <furrywolf> I bid $85 on the ct-40 toolholders, and $50 on the injection molding machine, figuring if no one else bids I'll haul it off. :P
[03:01:32] <PetefromTn_> good luck man
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[03:03:38] <furrywolf> I doubt I'm winning anything.
[03:03:46] <furrywolf> I need a house and a shop. :(
[03:03:57] <furrywolf> I would have a bit a LOT more on the mori seiki if I had a place to put it.
[03:04:06] <furrywolf> it was too pretty to put under a tarp. looked like brand new.
[03:04:12] <furrywolf> s/bit/bid
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[03:04:44] <PetefromTn_> that would be a perfect machine for me here really
[03:05:10] <PetefromTn_> not crazy HP and reasonable overall size to capability ratio
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[03:05:30] <furrywolf> 10hp spindle isn't crazy? :)
[03:05:35] <furrywolf> you must have a big shop!
[03:05:54] <PetefromTn_> well it is just about all I can run here.
[03:06:03] <PetefromTn_> my Cincinatti Arrow 500 is similar in size
[03:06:04] <MattyMatt> off electricity
[03:06:17] <furrywolf> the spindle is 10hp, total load close to 20hp... the servo drive claims to pull 4kW on its own...
[03:06:24] <MattyMatt> my learner motorbike had 12kW "spindle"
[03:06:25] <PetefromTn_> my house/shop has 200 amp service
[03:06:29] <furrywolf> another 2hp for hydraulics, 1hp for coolant, etc.
[03:06:54] <PetefromTn_> yup same as the cincinatti....overall probably closer to 20
[03:07:18] <PetefromTn_> but I could probably run it here okay I think
[03:07:32] <PetefromTn_> the CNC lathe I am building has a 7.5HP spindle
[03:08:06] <zeeshan-mill> holy cow
[03:08:10] <zeeshan-mill> using analogout
[03:08:16] <zeeshan-mill> the spindle is SUPER responsive
[03:08:19] <zeeshan-mill> hmmm!!!!!1
[03:08:26] <furrywolf> I want a shop. :(
[03:08:31] <zeeshan-mill> sorry i am on a tangent
[03:08:32] <furrywolf> houses cost too fucking much!
[03:08:37] <Wolf_> man… makes my mill sound vert very pathetic.. 1/5hp
[03:08:47] <MattyMatt> move to detroit. squat a factory
[03:08:59] <furrywolf> a small house on a lot big enough for a metal building is more than ten years of my entire net income...
[03:09:02] <zeeshan-mill> lol wolf
[03:09:15] <zeeshan-mill> stop it
[03:09:17] <zeeshan-mill> youre in usa
[03:09:20] <zeeshan-mill> theres so many slum towns
[03:09:26] <zeeshan-mill> you can get a massive property for 80k
[03:09:27] <zeeshan-mill> :P
[03:09:46] <MattyMatt> I'm sure you can get an acre of desert for even less
[03:09:51] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[03:09:53] <zeeshan-mill> thats true
[03:09:58] <MattyMatt> somewhere to pour a slab and pitch a tent
[03:10:17] <pcw_home> zeeshan-mill: dont try to measure 24V 7I77 digital outputs without a load
[03:10:26] <furrywolf> but then I'd have to live in the desert. heh.
[03:10:29] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, i had it wired wrong
[03:10:37] <zeeshan-mill> its working now
[03:10:42] <zeeshan-mill> this stupid manual is retarded
[03:10:44] <Wolf_> I bought a piece of shit house, but with land and a 35x24’ shop in the back, under $200k, buddy dad got a place around the corner from me thats on 1 acre ish but has a 30x50’ shop out back for $75k
[03:10:58] <furrywolf> pcw_home: any progress on 7i76es? since it seems I'm not going to get the cnc lathe I bid on, now I can spend the money on your stuff. :P
[03:11:10] <pcw_home> that have up to 5 ua leakage so may read some voltage with a DVM when off
[03:11:22] <furrywolf> $200k is a lot of cash.
[03:11:22] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, is there a manual where it talks about things like spinena etc
[03:11:29] <zeeshan-mill> that took me a little while to figure out!!:P
[03:11:36] <pcw_home> being built now
[03:12:42] <pcw_home> hal show pin?
[03:12:53] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, nah
[03:12:58] <zeeshan-mill> i mean i didnt know you needed spin ena
[03:13:04] <zeeshan-mill> for driver #5
[03:13:10] <furrywolf> my net income is around $20k. heh.
[03:13:12] <zeeshan-mill> i was wondering why it wasnt outputting any voltage
[03:13:21] <zeeshan-mill> i feel like im not reading a manual somwhere
[03:13:26] <zeeshan-mill> and saving myself this pain
[03:13:45] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/vV733bA.jpg
[03:13:50] <zeeshan-mill> the vfd manual is so retarded
[03:13:52] <zeeshan-mill> er wrong image
[03:13:59] <pcw_home> "Six uncommitted OPTO coupler outputs are available for drive enable. Five of these
[03:14:01] <pcw_home> outputs are (ENA0 through ENA4) are switched in common while ENA5 can be
[03:14:02] <pcw_home> independently switched for spindle applications."
[03:14:27] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/Hl1X0Ro.jpg
[03:14:37] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, 7i77pdf?
[03:15:07] <zeeshan-mill> does it look like to anyone else
[03:15:17] <zeeshan-mill> that the top right diagram has a wire going to BC?
[03:15:32] <zeeshan-mill> cause thats how i had it hooked up and its wrong
[03:15:34] <zeeshan-mill> its supposed to go to pcs
[03:15:38] <zeeshan-mill> they screwed up the line spacing
[03:15:54] <zeeshan-mill> :(
[03:19:04] <PetefromTn_> man this uber thin .040 tig wire sure makes controlling things easier
[03:19:15] <zeeshan-mill> for thin pipe right?
[03:19:21] <zeeshan-mill> it doesnt blob
[03:19:25] <zeeshan-mill> but melts nicely into puddle
[03:19:25] <pcw_home> bottom right is how you should wire it for 7I77 24V outputs
[03:19:33] <PetefromTn_> actually I am using it on the sch40 stuff
[03:19:37] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, but i had it like that
[03:19:39] <zeeshan-mill> and it didnt work
[03:19:42] <PetefromTn_> apparently that is what the other guy was using
[03:19:43] <zeeshan-mill> i had to wire it like the top
[03:19:46] <zeeshan-mill> and now its working
[03:20:12] <PetefromTn_> I went over there today to talk to them about stuff and found a couple rods leftover
[03:20:16] <zeeshan-mill> when i was feeding +24v into pcs
[03:20:18] <zeeshan-mill> it didnt work
[03:20:22] <PetefromTn_> so I grabbed them and started testing with it here.
[03:20:22] <zeeshan-mill> but if i ground pcs
[03:20:23] <zeeshan-mill> it works
[03:20:29] <PetefromTn_> what a difference that makes
[03:20:49] <zeeshan-mill> i use a spool from a mig welder
[03:20:50] <PetefromTn_> I think I am gonna order some .045 308L rod
[03:20:51] <zeeshan-mill> its the same thing
[03:20:56] <zeeshan-mill> its cheaper in a spool
[03:20:59] <PetefromTn_> no shit..
[03:21:01] <pcw_home> thats right, bottom right picture grounds PCS
[03:21:03] <PetefromTn_> thats a good tip
[03:21:17] <PetefromTn_> it's funny you mention that
[03:21:23] <PetefromTn_> this stuff mics at .035
[03:21:28] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, but its going to the positive side of the battery
[03:21:30] <zeeshan-mill> in that pic
[03:21:33] <PetefromTn_> which is common size for mig welders
[03:21:40] <zeeshan-mill> yea PetefromTn_
[03:21:48] <PetefromTn_> I looked online and the rod comes in .045
[03:21:48] <zeeshan-mill> the cool thing is you can buy it at home depot
[03:21:55] <PetefromTn_> WAT
[03:21:55] <zeeshan-mill> if you really it in a rush
[03:21:56] <pcw_home> nope negative side (small bar)
[03:22:13] <PetefromTn_> 308L stuff?
[03:22:17] <zeeshan-mill> yea pete
[03:22:22] <zeeshan-mill> no 309l
[03:22:22] <PetefromTn_> excellent
[03:22:22] <zeeshan-mill> though
[03:22:40] <PetefromTn_> its not real expensive in rod form
[03:22:49] <PetefromTn_> 8.75 or so a pound
[03:22:52] <zeeshan-mill> wow im a TARD
[03:22:53] <zeeshan-mill> LOL
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[03:23:04] <zeeshan-mill> how did i screw up something so basic
[03:23:08] <zeeshan-mill> small bar as +
[03:23:09] <zeeshan-mill> LOL
[03:23:14] <zeeshan-mill> laugh at me all
[03:23:15] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harris-308L-Stainless-Steel-TIG-Rod-045-x-36-1LB-308LTHO-/371402123986?hash=item56794aaad2
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[03:23:39] <zeeshan-mill> locally i get raped for that stuff
[03:23:51] <zeeshan-mill> also with .035
[03:23:58] <zeeshan-mill> you run out of it quicker!!!
[03:23:58] <PetefromTn_> whats a roll cost?
[03:24:14] <zeeshan-mill> around 40 bux for a 5lb
[03:24:15] <PetefromTn_> honestly after using this stuff
[03:24:18] <zeeshan-mill> lemme check
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[03:24:24] <PetefromTn_> it is really thin and wiggly
[03:24:39] <PetefromTn_> I think the .035 stuff in rod form would be easier to hold onto etc.
[03:24:44] <PetefromTn_> sorry .045
[03:25:07] <zeeshan-mill> im not sure about 0.045
[03:25:12] <zeeshan-mill> i only got the thin stuff
[03:25:18] * furrywolf curls up and yawns
[03:25:33] <PetefromTn_> I talked to the owner and he said that is all he used on the stainless apparently
[03:26:01] <PetefromTn_> and looking at his welds they are really narrow and tightly packed so I think that is probably a correct assumption
[03:26:37] <PetefromTn_> all I know is it is a LOT easier to control the bead with it compared to the stuff I have been using
[03:27:42] <zeeshan-mill> nice
[03:27:45] <furrywolf> one of these days I'll hopefully find a way to earn more money... but it's hard! 20k a year isn't bad around here...
[03:27:46] <zeeshan-mill> are they using an inverter
[03:27:59] <PetefromTn_> I'd like to order a couple pounds of that harris stuff from ebay but I just checked my piggy bank and I think I blew my load on all that flowmeter/tigfinger/gas/household electrical outletsand switches schtuff...
[03:28:11] <PetefromTn_> who?
[03:29:05] <zeeshan-mill> the guy who does narrow welds
[03:29:09] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf honestly man what little I know about your knowledge base I would think you could get a job doing something making a lot more money than that. Just your electrical knowledge would get it done.
[03:29:18] <zeeshan-mill> furrywolf, do something about it if it bothers you!
[03:29:43] <PetefromTn_> no apparenlty he had a Miller transformer machine
[03:29:48] <zeeshan-mill> ah
[03:29:57] <zeeshan-mill> PetefromTn_, me too i feel the same way about furrywolf
[03:30:04] <zeeshan-mill> hes silly for not doing something about it
[03:30:04] <Wolf_> I have a inverter machine
[03:30:05] * zeeshan-mill slaps
[03:30:21] <PetefromTn_> Wolf_ what kind
[03:30:33] <Wolf_> miller dynasty 200dx
[03:30:42] <zeeshan-mill> show us your welds
[03:30:50] <zeeshan-mill> !
[03:31:15] <PetefromTn_> that looks like a nice machine but I don't know much about it.
[03:31:19] <furrywolf> it's very hard to turn skills into money, especially when you're not particularly good at anything.
[03:31:42] <PetefromTn_> it's a 3500 dollar machine so it must be decent LOL
[03:31:43] <zeeshan-mill> 1590
[03:31:43] <zeeshan-mill> er
[03:31:55] <zeeshan-mill> PetefromTn_, i think its more man
[03:32:02] <zeeshan-mill> silly expensive
[03:32:18] <PetefromTn_> http://store.cyberweld.com/mildyn200dxa.html
[03:32:22] <Wolf_> it was cheaper when I got it…
[03:32:31] <Wolf_> but that was 10yrs ago
[03:32:36] <Wolf_> http://wolfmetalfab.com/pics/The%20Old%20Shop/slides/IMG_0193.JPG
[03:32:47] <Wolf_> some ugly stainless welds
[03:32:48] <PetefromTn_> nice
[03:33:02] <PetefromTn_> what is that?
[03:33:24] <zeeshan-mill> nice!
[03:33:28] <zeeshan-mill> we have another tigger here
[03:33:29] <zeeshan-mill> hooray
[03:33:31] <Wolf_> your gonna laugh, its a bracket for a over the stove microwave oven
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[03:33:47] <PetefromTn_> hey man whatever works right
[03:34:08] <furrywolf> it's very hard to make more than minimum wage without a specialist profession, like doctor or lawyer... and around here even many doctors make close to minimum wage, because all the useless people are on medi-cal, and that's all they pay.
[03:34:17] <Wolf_> house had a old window to what use to be a car port
[03:34:53] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf do like so many others do.... LIE on your resume to get in hehe
[03:35:12] <furrywolf> you can't lie your way to doctor or lawyer. or, at least, I can't. :P
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[03:35:23] <Wolf_> here is another of the same thing
http://wolfmetalfab.com/pics/The%20Old%20Shop/slides/IMG_0195.JPG
[03:35:24] <PetefromTn_> I am not talking about Doctor or lawyer
[03:35:50] <PetefromTn_> but honestly that has apparently been done too
[03:36:03] <PetefromTn_> Wolf_ so you have a fabrication business?
[03:36:19] <Wolf_> overall
http://wolfmetalfab.com/pics/The%20Old%20Shop/slides/IMG_0192.JPG willing to bet that I didn’t need the extra tubes
[03:36:28] <furrywolf> yes, I know it's been done, which is why I added that I couldn't, not that no one could. :P
[03:36:36] <Wolf_> yeah somewhat, do commercial truck unfitting
[03:36:40] <Wolf_> up-fitting
[03:36:53] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[03:37:05] <zeeshan-mill> 318
[03:37:18] <PetefromTn_> brb
[03:37:40] <Wolf_> mostly small stuff
http://wolfmetalfab.com/pics/Welding%20Work/slides/IMG_0220.jpg
[03:39:04] <furrywolf> I was talking to someone who repaired honda generators the other day, for the largest shop in the area... he was happy he finally, after years of work, got a raise to $13 an hour.
[03:41:15] <Wolf_> ok, machine question, looking at the shaft couplers for the axis drives on mcmaster-carr, which ones should I be looking at?
[03:42:18] <furrywolf> and $13 an hour is pretty damn good.
[03:42:30] <furrywolf> and yet not nearly enough to think about home ownership
[03:43:44] <Wolf_> Aluminum Coupling Hubs and Shore 98A Spiders, Zero backlash are the right ones?
[03:48:44] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[03:49:28] <zeeshan-mill> furrywolf, youre in a shit area
[03:49:29] <zeeshan-mill> move.
[03:49:31] <zeeshan-mill> simple
[03:49:31] <zeeshan-mill> :)
[03:50:28] <furrywolf> seems the only people making money around here are growing weed or selling supplies for growing weed... and even that's going away, both because prices are so low it's hard to make any money, and because it'll soon be legal and the entire industry will vanish.
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[04:08:36] <fenn> Wolf_: they don't make machines like the van norman anymore... i almost got one but it slipped away
[04:09:32] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 ya there?
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[04:10:04] <fenn> one of the devs has one:
http://jmkasunich.com/vannorman/VN_Home.htm
[04:10:06] <Wolf_> fenn: yeah I did a search on them after I linked it, interesting looking machine
[04:14:31] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ER308L-Stainless-Steel-308L-MIG-Welding-Wire-0-045-2-Lb-Roll-/190557352361?hash=item2c5e1a71a9 OOH... I think this is the ticket
[04:15:10] <zeeshan-mill> yes
[04:15:23] <zeeshan-mill> in and out a bit
[04:15:25] <zeeshan-mill> tuning the spindle
[04:15:32] <zeeshan-mill> man fak modbus for spindle control
[04:15:34] <zeeshan-mill> its so much slower
[04:15:54] <PetefromTn_> I know right.. I gotta switch back mine to analog so I can get the damn toolchanger working
[04:16:02] <zeeshan-mill> youre going to pid it?
[04:16:20] <PetefromTn_> right now I NEED to spend as much spare time practicing this Tig welding stainless so I can do their work here
[04:16:35] <PetefromTn_> I dunno whatever gives the best orient
[04:16:43] <zeeshan-mill> did you try backpurging
[04:16:46] <zeeshan-mill> with your new setup
[04:16:49] <PetefromTn_> either PID or using the braking feature as PCW said.
[04:16:59] <PetefromTn_> no I am actually still waiting on the TEE to get here.
[04:17:05] <PetefromTn_> I did receive the new flow reg
[04:17:10] <PetefromTn_> and my tig fingers today
[04:17:18] <PetefromTn_> that tig finger is pretty nice actually
[04:17:32] <PetefromTn_> very smooth sliding action on the metal and keeps the heat off your pinky LOL
[04:17:33] <zeeshan-mill> yea lets you prop your finger
[04:17:44] <zeeshan-mill> for the longest time
[04:17:47] <zeeshan-mill> i used to use a cotton cloth
[04:17:48] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[04:17:50] <zeeshan-mill> ghetto!
[04:17:52] <PetefromTn_> hey man can you critique me here...
[04:18:04] <PetefromTn_> don't laugh LOL
[04:18:06] <zeeshan-mill> hehe
[04:18:17] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/R3kR4p2.jpg
[04:18:29] <zeeshan-mill> this comp is slow!
[04:19:25] <zeeshan-mill> honestly to me that looks good
[04:19:41] <zeeshan-mill> you dont have much grey going on
[04:19:44] <PetefromTn_> really..
[04:19:48] <zeeshan-mill> meanin your feed is good
[04:20:00] <PetefromTn_> that is NO back purge whatsoever
[04:20:05] <zeeshan-mill> yep i believ eyou!
[04:20:07] <zeeshan-mill> when you backpurge
[04:20:13] <PetefromTn_> and using 3/32 tungsten
[04:20:16] <zeeshan-mill> youll see it gets easier to control
[04:20:19] <PetefromTn_> numer 12 cup
[04:20:27] <PetefromTn_> and that .030 wire/rod
[04:20:29] <zeeshan-mill> nice
[04:20:50] <PetefromTn_> man if it gets easier to control with the back purge I might just be able to do this.
[04:20:57] <PetefromTn_> the more I practice the better I get
[04:21:06] <zeeshan-mill> trust me
[04:21:07] <PetefromTn_> my biggest issue is stopping and starting
[04:21:09] <zeeshan-mill> ive seen some welders
[04:21:11] <zeeshan-mill> some people have it
[04:21:13] <zeeshan-mill> some people dont
[04:21:15] <zeeshan-mill> you got it
[04:21:15] <zeeshan-mill> haha
[04:21:47] <zeeshan-mill> do you have an autodarkening helmet?
[04:21:48] <PetefromTn_> I am trying REAL hard to get my technique down on this tube
[04:21:57] <zeeshan-mill> how are you welding this tube
[04:21:59] <PetefromTn_> yeah it's not a crazy expensive one tho
[04:22:02] <zeeshan-mill> do you have it along the axis
[04:22:06] <zeeshan-mill> like
[04:22:15] <zeeshan-mill> is the radial part against your table
[04:22:21] <zeeshan-mill> or are the ends of the tube against your table
[04:23:03] <PetefromTn_> actually what I am doing is I put the two pieces close together against the movable jaw of my chinese POS CNC vise to align them and then tack in two places
[04:23:10] <PetefromTn_> then once it is one piece
[04:23:19] <PetefromTn_> I kinda lightly clamp it in the vise
[04:23:37] <PetefromTn_> and put the vise sideways on the table in front of me
[04:23:51] <PetefromTn_> and then weld from right to left across the crack
[04:23:57] <zeeshan-mill> gotcha
[04:23:59] <zeeshan-mill> thats good
[04:24:23] <zeeshan-mill> do you know of the technique
[04:24:30] <zeeshan-mill> where youre a lazy welder
[04:24:38] <zeeshan-mill> and you dont wanna chamfer the pipes
[04:24:42] <Wolf_> good helmet does wonders, and helps if you can get in to good working position
[04:24:48] <zeeshan-mill> so you put a piece of 1/16 tig wire between the pipes
[04:24:49] <zeeshan-mill> tack
[04:24:51] <zeeshan-mill> and then weld
[04:25:00] <zeeshan-mill> if you havent tried that, try it!
[04:25:05] <PetefromTn_> no but that is a neat idea
[04:25:14] <PetefromTn_> these pipes I have been prepping like
[04:25:30] <PetefromTn_> take them and using a die gringer with a sanding disk
[04:25:42] <PetefromTn_> sorta polish away the exterior rough texture
[04:26:10] <PetefromTn_> then use my 3m scotch brite wheel on the bench grinder to polish them a bit not going too crazy as these are just test pieces
[04:26:16] <zeeshan-mill> yes
[04:26:18] <PetefromTn_> then I wipe everything down with acetone
[04:26:29] <PetefromTn_> set up on the POS CNC vise
[04:26:45] <PetefromTn_> Oh forgot to add the champfer to both pieces
[04:26:54] <PetefromTn_> before the polishing
[04:26:57] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[04:27:09] <PetefromTn_> what kinda helmet do you have?
[04:27:44] <zeeshan-mill> miller "elite" series
[04:27:50] <Wolf_> speedglas
[04:27:51] <zeeshan-mill> its got a big viewing window
[04:27:56] <zeeshan-mill> speedglas is sweet
[04:28:44] <PetefromTn_> mine is made by Kobalt tools probably just a rebranded chinese one or something but it works okay
[04:29:02] <zeeshan-mill> sorry to interrupt this conversation
[04:29:07] <zeeshan-mill> but i just fixed my rigid tapping!!!!
[04:29:10] <zeeshan-mill> it WAS modbus
[04:29:12] <zeeshan-mill> causing the lag
[04:29:17] <zeeshan-mill> now its consistently reversing
[04:29:19] <Wolf_> sweet
[04:29:20] <zeeshan-mill> within 5 thou
[04:29:31] <zeeshan-mill> it still overshoots
[04:29:33] <zeeshan-mill> but its consistent
[04:29:36] <zeeshan-mill> and much less
[04:30:07] <PetefromTn_> great man glad you got it sorted
[04:30:18] * Wolf_ sends zeeshan-mill all the cad files for parts that need tapped for the x1 conversion
[04:30:38] <zeeshan-mill> i still need a brake
[04:30:40] <zeeshan-mill> haha wolf
[04:30:45] <zeeshan-mill> ask pete!!
[04:30:46] <zeeshan-mill> :P
[04:30:48] <zeeshan-mill> hes in usa!
[04:31:33] <Wolf_> not too many holes, most of the tapping is gonna be on the mill anyways
http://i.imgur.com/NZCBIdp.png?1
[04:32:23] <zeeshan-mill> what is that
[04:32:27] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/wLxZS5v.jpg ROFL
[04:33:33] <PetefromTn_> http://www.bakersgas.com/media/products/LINK3101-1.jpg this one looks nice
[04:34:26] <PetefromTn_> http://opwelding.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Miller-Digital-Elite-Auto-Helmets.jpg freakin' clowns hehe
[04:34:33] <Wolf_> x1 column, missing the headstock, with the z axis ball screw mount, column cap for air spring cabled counter weight. bar on the side is from the ball nut to the head, still missing the stepper mount and some minor tweaks
[04:35:14] <zeeshan-mill> yea i got that style
[04:35:19] <zeeshan-mill> but its silver
[04:35:34] <PetefromTn_> how much was it?
[04:35:40] <zeeshan-mill> kinda expensive
[04:35:42] <zeeshan-mill> but remember im in canada
[04:35:46] <zeeshan-mill> 280 on "SALE"
[04:35:52] <zeeshan-mill> 10 years ago or so
[04:35:55] <PetefromTn_> I'd like to have a full window hemmet
[04:36:01] <zeeshan-mill> its worth it
[04:36:25] <PetefromTn_> I can let my wife/kids watch me with this one when I get a new one LOL
[04:36:34] <zeeshan-mill> yea!
[04:36:34] <zeeshan-mill> haha
[04:38:19] <PetefromTn_> trying to decide which would be better for me the .045 rod or the .045 mig wire spool in ER308L...
[04:38:40] <zeeshan-mill> at the end of the day its user preference
[04:38:46] <zeeshan-mill> the spool is cool cause its continuous
[04:38:47] <PetefromTn_> yup
[04:38:54] <zeeshan-mill> you dont have to stop and grab more filler
[04:38:56] <zeeshan-mill> its a small detail
[04:38:58] <zeeshan-mill> but that annoys me sometimes
[04:39:09] <zeeshan-mill> you also waste less
[04:39:13] <zeeshan-mill> i always have a 3" piece left
[04:39:14] <zeeshan-mill> that i cant use
[04:39:16] <fenn> Wolf_ can you add another bar on the other side to balance out the torque on the headstock?
[04:39:19] <zeeshan-mill> im sure you have that problem too
[04:39:40] <PetefromTn_> so when you are using the roll you don't actually cut off a long piece?
[04:39:50] <Wolf_> yeah, there is a 2nd bar, I didn’t bother to draw it
[04:41:16] <fenn> PetefromTn_: i don't know much about tig welding but i would suggest keeping a photo diary of your welds, with descriptions of what you did and all the relevant parameters in a simple format you can flip through
[04:41:30] <PetefromTn_> not a bad idea
[04:41:46] <Wolf_> write it on the work then pic
[04:42:10] <PetefromTn_> I have been teaching myself to tig weld for a year or two now....it is NOT easy to do this LOL
[04:42:29] <Wolf_> heh, tried alum yet?
[04:42:31] <PetefromTn_> actually it's about 3 years but who's counting
[04:42:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah I do a lot of aluminum practice and have done quite a few jobs for customers
[04:43:07] <PetefromTn_> it's harder I think
[04:43:36] <PetefromTn_> I get a lot of guys with aluminum boats want them fixed LOL
[04:43:37] <Wolf_> alum drives me nuts, too cold one sec, weld puddle falls out the back 3 sec later
[04:43:49] <PetefromTn_> one guy brought me his boat
[04:43:57] <PetefromTn_> it had this HUGE motor on the back
[04:44:06] <PetefromTn_> and it was basically ripping the transom out
[04:44:11] <PetefromTn_> I told him jeez man
[04:44:18] <PetefromTn_> even if I weld it all back together
[04:44:26] <PetefromTn_> it is probably gonna just crack again
[04:44:38] <PetefromTn_> he smiled and said he did not give a crap as long as he can get back out on the lake
[04:44:46] <Wolf_> lol
[04:45:09] <zeeshan-mill> pete nah i just spool it out
[04:45:19] <PetefromTn_> I did a pretty good job welding it I think he was very pleased
[04:45:19] <zeeshan-mill> like it rotates in a tube
[04:45:23] <zeeshan-mill> it keeps coming
[04:45:25] <PetefromTn_> and he has not been back
[04:45:39] <PetefromTn_> so either he sank and drowned
[04:45:47] <PetefromTn_> or it is still working for him LOL
[04:45:50] <zeeshan-mill> my fav is aluminum!!
[04:45:52] <zeeshan-mill> its not picky
[04:45:56] <zeeshan-mill> i hate stainless
[04:45:58] <zeeshan-mill> so picky
[04:45:58] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan ok
[04:46:06] <PetefromTn_> really
[04:46:12] <zeeshan-mill> yea
[04:46:13] <PetefromTn_> how do you setup for aluminum>
[04:46:27] <zeeshan-mill> if its new metal
[04:46:29] <PetefromTn_> I am learning that my setups for stuff is NOT optimal
[04:46:34] <zeeshan-mill> i acetone it
[04:46:40] <zeeshan-mill> dont even bother trying to remove the oxide layer
[04:46:44] <zeeshan-mill> the cleaning action will do that for you
[04:46:49] <zeeshan-mill> if you try to clean it with sand paper
[04:46:54] <Wolf_> guess it depends on how thick, most crap I deal with is truck toolbox so maybe 10ga
[04:46:58] <zeeshan-mill> youll get all these pieces of shit in the weld puddle
[04:46:59] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[04:47:06] <zeeshan-mill> like you know how your weld puddle is shiny
[04:47:11] <zeeshan-mill> youll see this specks floating around
[04:47:16] <PetefromTn_> yup
[04:47:18] <zeeshan-mill> but other than that
[04:47:35] <zeeshan-mill> this is the trick i learned for al:
[04:47:56] <zeeshan-mill> if youre butt welding .125 thick material, usually you set to 125A for steel
[04:48:02] <zeeshan-mill> but for al you wanna be at 160A
[04:48:23] <zeeshan-mill> it takes like 8 seconds to get the puddle going the very first time you weld the material
[04:48:24] <zeeshan-mill> ~
[04:48:33] -!- Tecan has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[04:48:34] <zeeshan-mill> but you back your foot up 60%
[04:48:39] <zeeshan-mill> and continue the weld
[04:48:58] <zeeshan-mill> i mean you want 60% throttle when you have established a puddle
[04:48:59] <PetefromTn_> after the puddle forms
[04:49:01] <zeeshan-mill> yea
[04:49:06] <zeeshan-mill> this is what really throws people off
[04:49:10] <zeeshan-mill> they try to weld a 125A
[04:49:19] <zeeshan-mill> and the aluminum just craters
[04:49:30] <zeeshan-mill> .125 thick is forgiving
[04:49:36] <zeeshan-mill> but 0.0625, its game over if you do that
[04:49:48] <zeeshan-mill> which is what most car stuff is :(
[04:49:54] <PetefromTn_> that's the next challenge for me
[04:50:05] <PetefromTn_> they have a LOT of thin walled ally tubing
[04:50:13] <zeeshan-mill> yea man intercooler piping
[04:50:15] <PetefromTn_> I gotta get some setup that works for that next
[04:50:18] <zeeshan-mill> is 0.0625
[04:50:19] <PetefromTn_> exactly
[04:50:36] <zeeshan-mill> also you cant weld it on a steel table
[04:50:50] <zeeshan-mill> you need to grab a stainless or flat aluminum sheet
[04:50:51] <PetefromTn_> scratch it
[04:50:52] <zeeshan-mill> thats clean
[04:50:54] <zeeshan-mill> nahh
[04:50:59] <zeeshan-mill> it leaves this black crap
[04:51:05] <zeeshan-mill> where the conductive path was
[04:51:12] <PetefromTn_> OK
[04:51:13] <zeeshan-mill> its deep stuff
[04:51:34] <Wolf_> makes the back of the weld look like shit if you do sheet backed on steel too
[04:52:03] <zeeshan-mill> what do you mean
[04:52:08] <zeeshan-mill> like inside the tube?
[04:52:09] <PetefromTn_> my welding table is actually MDF believe it or not... I hook the clamp to the parts
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[04:52:38] <zeeshan-mill> once you start getting jobs and making money from these guys
[04:52:41] <zeeshan-mill> its worth making a table
[04:52:43] <zeeshan-mill> thats got 1/2" plate
[04:52:44] <Wolf_> like a butt weld on alum sheets but backed up with steel plate
[04:52:51] <zeeshan-mill> Wolf_, yea!
[04:52:54] <zeeshan-mill> it ruins the sheet
[04:53:31] <PetefromTn_> I actually like the MDF...it's easier on parts I think but it does burn if you get it too hot
[04:53:33] <zeeshan-mill> my problem is i learned from aluminum
[04:53:35] <Wolf_> top side looks ok tho, I have done it a few times to fill holes in things
[04:53:38] <zeeshan-mill> so i have a harder time keeping a puddle in stainless
[04:54:24] <PetefromTn_> they have a scrap bucket over there with a BUNCH of ally tubing I am gonna grab some and play with it
[04:54:44] <Wolf_> when I went to school for welding I qualified in steel, but I was planning on doing roll cages and off road truck stuff
[04:55:14] <deep_pink> this was looong day
[04:55:20] <Wolf_> in tig that is
[04:55:27] <PetefromTn_> I have done some of that for my own trucks... I built several different Rock Crawler Suzuki samurai's etc...
[04:55:51] <Wolf_> most days now I just run the metal glue gun
[04:55:54] <PetefromTn_> roll cage, custom bumpers, nerfs etc.
[04:56:17] <deep_pink> Wolf_: " metal glue gun"???
[04:56:21] <PetefromTn_> MIG
[04:56:23] <Wolf_> mig
[04:56:27] <deep_pink> LOL
[04:57:16] <PetefromTn_> I have a cheapo mig welder but ever since I got the Tig it just collects dust.. I should sell it and get a nicer one but I doubt I would use it that much
[04:57:36] <Wolf_> when I have actual work flowing in the shop, I’ll run a 30lb spool out in a month
[04:57:43] <PetefromTn_> damn
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[04:57:48] <PetefromTn_> thats a lot of welding
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[04:58:26] <PetefromTn_> I get jobs from my local ad but most of it is boats, bumpers,trailers etc. etc. Nothing crazy and mostly done in a couple hours
[04:58:44] <Wolf_> 16’L x 8’W x 5’T dumpster take some welding
[04:59:13] <PetefromTn_> I worked in a local CNC job shop and they had a fab shop attached
[04:59:28] <PetefromTn_> they were making these REALLY BIG dump buckets for some kinda earth mover machine
[04:59:46] <PetefromTn_> they spent hours and hours on each one with a large MIG
[05:00:03] <PetefromTn_> damn thing was crazy heavy when it was finished
[05:00:16] <PetefromTn_> that is some hard work I think.
[05:00:47] <PetefromTn_> gotta climb inside and all around it to get to the weld points etc.
[05:01:24] <Wolf_> this is why I want a cnc plasma table
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n541/wolfmetalfab/f550%20Stuff/5B923E6E-DADC-421F-B84A-C1110DEC0036-5985-000004D8F0085D6C.jpg
[05:01:53] <PetefromTn_> for the holes?
[05:02:09] <Wolf_> yeah and doing the hitch plates
[05:02:23] <PetefromTn_> is that a rolllback?
[05:02:30] <Wolf_> hook truck
[05:02:34] <PetefromTn_> OK
[05:02:46] <Wolf_> thats my personal truck
[05:02:56] <PetefromTn_> well I used up the last bit of that wire I got so I gotta get some ordered or practice is over LOL
[05:03:04] <PetefromTn_> oh okay
[05:03:10] <PetefromTn_> nice
[05:03:10] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/yERX7l3.jpg :D
[05:03:20] <Wolf_> makes yard work easy
[05:03:34] <PetefromTn_> 450?
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[05:04:04] <Wolf_> 550 w/ payload plus, 19.5k gvw
[05:04:17] <PetefromTn_> nice
[05:04:49] <PetefromTn_> well I gotta hit the sack. got a bunch of machining to do tomorrow... nice chatting Tig stuff with you guys...
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[05:07:42] <zeeshan-mill> pete
[05:07:46] <zeeshan-mill> damn he left
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[05:12:02] <Wolf_> ouch, $165 for the shaft couplers for the x/y/z
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[05:14:50] <fenn> hose clamps and thick rubber tube :P
[05:15:08] <Wolf_> lol maybe…
[05:15:25] <fenn> you could make an oldham coupling with the mill
[05:20:23] <Wolf_> true, oldhams are little less spendy too
[05:20:44] <Wolf_> $27 per axis
[05:22:41] <deep_pink> Wolf_: get some ruland couplers
[05:22:41] <Wolf_> vs $54 per
[05:26:03] <Wolf_> which one? like saying I should get a home depot
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[05:34:57] <deep_pink> Wolf_: what do you want to buy from home depot?
[05:35:04] <deep_pink> cupling?
[05:35:26] <Wolf_> which ruled… they make them all
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[05:35:35] <Wolf_> Ruland*
[05:36:30] <fenn> they are known for their helical beam couplers
[05:36:40] <fenn> but they do make a lot of different kinds of couplers
[05:38:00] <deep_pink> Wolf_:
http://www.ruland.com/
[05:38:14] <deep_pink> Wolf_: I have
http://www.ruland.com/ps_couplings_jaw.asp#about
[05:41:03] <Wolf_> whats the suggested torque rating for a mill?
[05:41:11] <Wolf_> on the spider
[05:48:07] <deep_pink> I have the 1.3" red spider
[05:48:30] <Wolf_> that 9.9Nm
[05:48:59] <deep_pink> correct.
[05:49:31] <fenn> how big are the handles on an x-1
[05:49:43] <Wolf_> so on my smaller machine, which most people run with 270oz in
[05:50:11] <deep_pink> you measure the torque?
[05:50:28] <Wolf_> maybe 75mm
[05:50:59] <Wolf_> no I didn’t measure the torque cause I need to clean and redo my gibs
[05:51:36] <deep_pink> how you do your gibs?
[05:51:59] <fenn> 270oz*in is like setting a full milk jug on the handle
[05:52:06] <Wolf_> take out the steel one and throw them away and make brass ones
[05:53:41] <deep_pink> I thing that the gib on my Z axis have to much space
[05:53:42] <fenn> might as well scrape the ways while you're at it
[05:54:01] <fenn> super precision x-1
[05:54:57] <Wolf_> well, I was planning on doing the long travel kit soon, that adds new base plate and carriage
[05:55:53] <fenn> madness
[05:56:01] <fenn> there's a perfectly good van norman sitting there
[05:56:25] <Wolf_> lol, listing didn’t even have pics
[05:57:23] <fenn> BREAKING NEWS old machinist doesn't know how to use new electronic gadgets
[05:58:00] <renesis> sounds like a pro
[05:58:30] <fenn> you should at least go look at it
[05:58:36] <Wolf_> vertical/ horizontal ram by Van Norman non-op currently, needs some reassembly no tooling << listing didn’t inspire much hope either
[05:59:58] <fenn> it's basically free
[06:00:07] <fenn> $500 is less than scrap value
[06:00:24] <Wolf_> http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tls/5171562665.html $500 more
[06:00:50] <fenn> so you're spoiled for choice
[06:01:01] <fenn> save me the van norman then :P
[06:01:34] <Wolf_> that Wells is tempting :D
[06:01:39] <deep_pink> someone know about sliting saw?
[06:01:53] <Wolf_> I know they spin
[06:02:10] <deep_pink> I want to make a compass from scratch,
[06:02:37] <Wolf_> eh, like the markings?
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[06:04:15] <Wolf_> wow MariTools is quick on the shipping
[06:04:39] <deep_pink> I need to mak very thin slot - about 0.2 mm
[06:05:12] <deep_pink> make*
[06:05:18] <archivist> cut
[06:06:21] <deep_pink> ok - cut
[06:06:25] <deep_pink> but what
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[06:06:59] <deep_pink> but where I can get sliting saw for that?
[06:08:02] <archivist> just google and find your local supplier
[06:08:56] <archivist> my local supplier is
https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/39260104/small-diameter-slitting-saws
[06:09:40] <deep_pink> how I'm connect it to the r8?
[06:09:49] <Wolf_> saw arbor
[06:10:19] <deep_pink> http://www.shars.com/slotting-saw-arbor-r8-shank
[06:11:33] <Wolf_> so back to the coupler thing, so I should be ok with the 19mm w/ 15lb-in/1.7Nm nominal torque tight?
[06:15:04] <fenn> nominally
[06:15:54] <deep_pink> use 2 times more, than what you think.
[06:16:03] <fenn> i'd be more worried about backlash in couplers than torque ratings
[06:16:46] <fenn> also things that flex have lower fatigue life if operated near their limits
[06:17:47] <Wolf_> well, in theory… my motors will max out at 3Nm
[06:18:01] <Wolf_> 425oz in
[06:18:34] <zeeshan|2> youre going to stall your spindle
[06:18:36] <zeeshan|2> before you stall those!
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[06:19:07] <fenn> you mean snap it off
[06:19:10] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[06:19:14] <zeeshan|2> can someone tell me whats going here
[06:19:14] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txk2r3_rBHM
[06:19:18] <Wolf_> stall the spindle? doubt it, won’t stall with half a bit
[06:19:20] <zeeshan|2> i got dc injection braking working
[06:19:27] <zeeshan|2> but when i try to reverse the spindle
[06:19:29] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt activate
[06:20:44] <fenn> is your current setup just the VFD? or is linuxcnc involved somehow?
[06:20:58] <zeeshan|2> just the vfd
[06:21:07] <zeeshan|2> like if i stop it from ccw or cw
[06:21:10] <zeeshan|2> it stops instantly
[06:21:20] <zeeshan|2> but when i try to reverse the spindle while it's running
[06:21:21] <zeeshan|2> it wont
[06:21:41] <zeeshan|2> i think my vfd needs to see 0 rpm commanded for a brief moment or something
[06:21:58] <fenn> that would make sense
[06:22:22] <fenn> are you using some sort of e-stop mechanism to brake the spindle?
[06:22:44] <fenn> like is not starting back up a safety feature?
[06:23:16] <zeeshan|2> its some builtin feature in the vfd
[06:23:33] <zeeshan|2> how it detects when to brake i don't know
[06:23:36] <zeeshan|2> the manual is crap
[06:25:14] <archivist> command a faster deceleration
[06:25:38] <zeeshan|2> hm
[06:25:57] <zeeshan|2> im confused how i can command afaster decel than what it currently is
[06:26:00] <zeeshan|2> from 500 rpm to 0
[06:26:08] <zeeshan|2> it goes there in like .5 sec?
[06:26:17] <Wolf_> ok, so if I go with Ruland couplers i’m looking at $93…
[06:26:24] <zeeshan|2> so decel time is set isn't it?
[06:26:37] <fenn> but maybe it doesn't know that it decelerated so fast and is waiting for something to happen that already happened
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[06:27:18] <zeeshan|2> i have the option to dc inject using mesa7i77
[06:27:22] <Wolf_> I think the Oldham win...
[06:27:23] <zeeshan|2> using the motion.spindle-brake option
[06:27:25] <zeeshan|2> but the problem is
[06:27:29] <zeeshan|2> it's always on!!
[06:27:35] <zeeshan|2> in the beginning
[06:27:37] <zeeshan|2> that'll fry the motor
[06:28:26] <SEL> hello good morning
[06:30:03] <SEL> i say true type tracer is really good for testing motors :-)
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[06:50:28] <Deejay> moin
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[07:33:58] <deep_pink> http://cheezburger.com/4769364480
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[09:09:45] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwrjAa1SgjQ
[09:09:50] <ganzuul> Boston Dynamics
[09:10:33] <Deejay> frightening
[09:11:25] <ganzuul> hah!
[09:24:09] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFOWIq3cIc
[09:24:16] <ganzuul> Cool other things
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[09:26:38] <XXCoder> boo\
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[09:31:23] <bz> @pl \x y -> 3
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[10:54:01] <Sync_> zeeshan|2: use an external fan so the DC brake will not kill the motor :P
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[13:04:40] <archivist> sudo make me a cnc
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[13:15:34] <alex_jon1> Sorry, try again.
[13:15:42] <alex_jon1> archivist: sudo: 1 incorrect password attempt
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[13:19:03] <Simonious> dang.. HMSXpress doesn't do 3d toolpaths, HMSWorks does, guess which one is free..
[13:19:34] <Simonious> anyone happen to know what HMSWorks costs?
[13:19:52] <archivist> more than your pocket money
[13:20:15] <Simonious> more than my boss's pocket money? :P
[13:20:48] <Simonious> CAMBAM *can* do it, but it's pretty terrible at anything 3D IMO
[13:20:59] <Simonious> just because it's so painful to use
[13:25:08] <Simonious> Hmm, maybe SketchUCam is good.. could export an STL from SolidWorks..
[13:25:28] <archivist> when I asked at a show I got responses between 18000 and 60000 pounds for cam for 5 a axis machine
[13:25:59] <Simonious> well sure, but that's 5 axis.. I'm thinking 3 axis
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[13:42:46] <Hawku> Simonious: maybe you could try the Fusion 360 CAM?
[13:43:12] <Hawku> it is using HSM kernel
[13:43:48] <Simonious> Hawku: it's on my list, is it 3D capable? I'm finding most of the free options are 2.5 - CAMBAM can sortof do 3D, but if I can help it I'll only use it for 2.5D
[13:45:22] <Hawku> Simonious: i think that the basic version is 2.5, but if you are a hobbyist/student/startup you get a free Ultimate version for a year
[13:47:03] <Hawku> after a year you can renew your free license
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[13:50:53] <Hawku> Simonious:
http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Fusion-360-Packaging-FAQ.html
[13:53:54] <Hawku> "The functionality previously available in Fusion 360 Ultimate (animations and 3-axis machining) will now be available in Fusion 360 at $300 with an annual subscription"
[13:54:55] <Hawku> so the basic $300/year edition does have a 3-axis CAM
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[14:39:02] <PetefromTn_> fusion 360 ultimate is 100 a month and includes 3+2 axis cam and simulation.. honestly that is not really that bad. fusion 360 is actually free for hobbyists/students/and startups..
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[14:40:08] * Jymmm subscribes on PetefromTn_'s credit card.. THANKS!
[14:40:31] <PetefromTn_> heh was not aware I HAD a credit card
[14:41:21] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Oh, you have 4 plus 3 morgages, and 2 $20K lines of creidt that are almost maxed out this month.
[14:41:46] <PetefromTn_> damn..
[14:41:58] <PetefromTn_> no wonder I have no freakin' money LOL
[14:42:46] <Jymmm> Oh you do, but it's stuck in drug and humand traffiicing for the next 18 months or so
[14:43:17] <PetefromTn_> woah I am a BAAADD Boy
[14:44:00] <Jymmm> Well, not really, unless you goto florida... you have 3 felony warrants
[14:44:23] <PetefromTn_> jeez and I wanted to go to florida
[14:44:39] <Jymmm> Free room and board when/if you do =)
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[14:44:57] <PetefromTn_> just don't drop the soap right ;)
[14:45:30] <Jymmm> something like that, else that's your thing of course, who am I to judge.
[14:45:39] <Jymmm> unless*
[14:45:59] <PetefromTn_> Don't ask Don't tell hehe
[14:46:16] <Jymmm> Eh, LET YOUR FREAK FLAG FLY BABY!!!
[14:47:06] <Jymmm> Well left-rear brakes done; I hope the caliper was the cause of all that mess.
[14:47:06] <PetefromTn_> hoping to get my Tee fitting so I can put this new Flow regulator on my tig setup today and try it...
[14:47:26] <PetefromTn_> that'd be good
[14:47:28] <Jymmm> mail order plumbing parts?
[14:47:42] <PetefromTn_> mail order Tig welder parts anyway
[14:48:05] <Jymmm> whats so special that you can't just grab brass ones from the big orange borg?
[14:48:27] <PetefromTn_> I have some hose I can use here for the gas line but I need to get a hose barb fitting for the end I think I may have one in my junk box tho..
[14:48:48] <PetefromTn_> well it has a special fitting that mates to the tank valve
[14:48:57] <Jymmm> special?
[14:48:59] <PetefromTn_> and two females of that same fitting on each end
[14:49:08] <PetefromTn_> different anyway
[14:49:17] <PetefromTn_> who knows they might have them at Home Despot
[14:49:34] <PetefromTn_> but they are cheap online really and I don't have to go anywhere ;)
[14:49:36] <Jymmm> Plumbing fittings are the worse, there are SI many different types of threads it's sad
[14:49:47] <Jymmm> gotcha
[14:49:52] <Jymmm> SO*
[14:50:15] <Jymmm> then add propane/gas to that.... EEEEEESH!
[14:51:00] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Argon-Gas-Bottle-Y-adapter-connect-2-regulators-to-1-bottle-Western-T-92-C-2580-/191547352277?hash=item2c991ca4d5
[14:51:12] <PetefromTn_> that is the one I bought
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[14:52:16] <Jymmm> I had to go from faucet thread to make garden fitting, then from female garden to male pipe fitting just to attache a shower hose to a tub faucet, AND the faucey to garden is one that had and orange borg doens't even stock anymore even though I bought it from them years ago
[14:52:36] <PetefromTn_> like I said it is kinda different from the typical brass fitting stuff maybe you can get it local I dunno
[14:52:39] <Jymmm> Oh, a POL fitting
[14:53:08] <PetefromTn_> ?
[14:53:34] <Jymmm> thats a typical propane fitting
[14:53:44] <Jymmm> http://www.propanewarehouse.com/product-category/fittings/pol-fittings/
[14:53:59] <Jymmm> or CGA580 too I think
[14:54:11] <Jymmm> as there is no o-ring
[14:54:56] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_:
http://www.propanewarehouse.com/shop/accessories/propane-pol/
[14:55:10] <Jymmm> for future reference
[14:56:43] <PetefromTn_> ok
[14:56:51] <Jymmm> althugh propane aint inert, it goes boom =)
[14:56:52] <PetefromTn_> same price really
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[14:57:04] <Jymmm> yeah, I mena if you are in a pinch is all
[14:57:33] <Jymmm> I always like having a CYA backup =)
[14:57:52] <PetefromTn_> always
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[14:58:22] <Jymmm> skunky!!!
[14:58:58] <PetefromTn_> where are you located jymm?
[14:59:05] <Jymmm> or, indian name is: Stinky one who sprays dogs!
[14:59:11] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Calif
[14:59:15] <PetefromTn_> ok
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[15:00:30] <_methods> ahhh that's what's wrong with him
[15:00:46] <_methods> lol
[15:01:27] <Jymmm> What, not living in a blizzard all winter long?
[15:02:18] <Jymmm> Although, that might have changed, we'll see.
[15:02:32] <_methods> global warming
[15:03:23] <Jymmm> But... worse case, I have 2.5 cords of seasoned and split wood out back
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[15:14:42] <Wolf_> That propane POL won’t fit a inert gas bottle
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[15:48:20] <archivist> the different gas threads are to stop you re inventing the big bang theory
[15:49:41] <PetefromTn_> aww where's the fun in that?
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[16:15:40] <Jymmm> Heh, they are using propane now to exterminate gophers. They pump propane into the holes/tunnels and it's the percussion that kills them. It's so frickin loud that they have to call the fire/police before igniting.
[16:16:29] <pcw_home> propane and oxygen
[16:17:08] <Wolf_> I just use a rifle
[16:17:28] <Jymmm> I only heard propane myself. Although oxy-propane torches are nice
[16:17:54] <Jymmm> Wolf_: How tdo you get it around all the bends/corners?
[16:18:17] <Wolf_> I don’t have gophers, I have woodchucks here
[16:18:22] <PetefromTn_> I much prefer a precision Air Rifle with High power scope out to about 75 yards LOL
[16:18:54] <Wolf_> I use a .17 HMR, last one I shot was at 120yrs out
[16:18:58] <PetefromTn_> Silent and deadly
[16:19:44] <PetefromTn_> beyond 75 yards I have more powerful hunting style airguns that will take care of things
[16:20:08] <Wolf_> mine is loud as fuck but IDGAF :D
[16:20:25] <PetefromTn_> yeah man .17 HMR IS indeed LAF
[16:20:34] <Jymmm> Got BEAR(s) ???
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/trending/bear-pokes-its-head-through-cat-door
[16:21:06] <Wolf_> nice, steppers will be here Fri :)
[16:21:10] <PetefromTn_> the precision target PCP rifles basically are silent for all intents and purposes. It is not unusual to shoot one critter and then shoot his buddy sitting right next to him LOL
[16:21:44] <PetefromTn_> it's almost unfair really so I don't much do it anymore unless it is really a pest
[16:22:15] <Wolf_> new vid card for my cnc computer tomorrow, along with some new end mills. Just need my mcmaster order to ship now
[16:25:43] <Wolf_> so trying to get by with the wrong stuff for the task at hand, cut up some copper M pipe to use as soft jaws in the 4 jaw to chuck the ball screw up, that should work right?
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[16:27:33] <Jymmm> I have no clue, but I'd hope that your ballscrew is harder than anything you put it in.
[16:28:06] <Wolf_> well, still don’t want to damage it in any way
[16:28:20] <Jymmm> need to turn it's ends?
[16:29:03] <PetefromTn_> I machined a brass adapter in the three jaw to clamp onto my ballscrews for the RF45... worked pretty good
[16:29:11] <Wolf_> yeah, eBay score that I have had for a while, only has a 26mm long 10mm shaft on it right now, plus I need to cut it down
[16:29:40] <Jymmm> cool
[16:29:53] <PetefromTn_> used carbide insert tooling to break thru the hardness layer.. then it machined normally
[16:30:06] <Wolf_> on a 14mm dia, 5mm pitch thk screw
[16:30:11] <PetefromTn_> I also used an angle grinder to cut thru the hardest part on the outside
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[16:31:14] <Wolf_> thats what I was thinking of doing, chuck it, center it, cover everything, use a paper plate to shield the chuck, 4.5 grinder w/ the lathe spinning
[16:32:02] <Rab> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNuI6keQXYA
[16:32:03] <PetefromTn_> yup that is basically what I did but I used plastic sheeting on everything taped down
[16:32:32] <Wolf_> yeah, I have a roll of tape and drape, good idea :)
[16:33:21] <PetefromTn_> Rab wouldn't want to get sucked up into that monster huh
[16:34:23] <Rab> PetefromTn_, nope. Wish they mentioned where it's used.
[16:34:53] <Rab> Ingenious design, though. Beats a rotating clutch.
[16:35:47] <PetefromTn_> that overall picture kinda reminds me of an old elevator shaft lift motor in a big building but it is MUCH larger than that I think. also a helluva lot faster apparently LOL
[16:41:38] <Wolf_> quality…
http://i.imgur.com/kEDpfS8.jpg the X axis lead screw block off my x1…
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[16:42:36] <Tom_itx> no thrust bearings on it?
[16:42:44] <Wolf_> not yet
[16:43:28] <Wolf_> have some on order tho, should help things
[16:44:39] <zeeshan|2> Sync_: i was monitoring the temperature of the motor
[16:44:43] <zeeshan|2> it really didnt warm ujp
[16:44:57] <zeeshan|2> im only injecting 50% "braking power" as the manual puts it
[16:45:00] <zeeshan|2> for 0.4 seconds
[16:45:26] <zeeshan|2> can someone please help me fix rigid tapping with the brake!! :P
[16:45:34] <zeeshan|2> i don't know why it's acting the way it is
[16:45:59] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txk2r3_rBHM
[16:46:06] <zeeshan|2> video shows normal stopping from 500 rpm to 0
[16:46:13] <zeeshan|2> and then 250 rpm to -250 rpm
[16:46:24] <Wolf_> one of my plans for my sad little x1 conversion is to get
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2297 and ball screw it, and if possible rear mount the stepper
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[16:50:29] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: any clues? :D
[16:51:46] <pcw_home> I think you are better off adding a braking resistor and setting you accel times faster on your VFD
[16:51:57] <zeeshan|2> what is wrong with dc injection
[16:53:13] <pcw_home> rather uncontrolled decell and accel would still need to be set in the VFD
[16:53:30] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: im confused why it doesn't suddenly brake
[16:53:35] <zeeshan|2> before reversing
[16:53:39] <zeeshan|2> but if i go from reverse to stop
[16:53:42] <zeeshan|2> or forward to stop
[16:53:43] <zeeshan|2> it brakes
[16:54:30] <pcw_home> it may be that the drive disallows braking if commanded speed is not 0
[16:54:48] <Sync_> zeeshan|2: is some sort of accel limit in the VFD?
[16:54:57] <zeeshan|2> sync i dont wanna touch accel limit
[16:55:00] <zeeshan|2> because like pcw is saying
[16:55:02] <zeeshan|2> i need a resistor for that
[16:55:06] <pcw_home> so with a complicated hal config it might be usable
[16:55:14] <zeeshan|2> cause if i decrease my decel time any lower, it overcurrents the vfd
[16:55:23] <Tom_itx> go get a stove element and make a brake resistor
[16:55:23] <pcw_home> I would get the resistor
[16:55:30] <Sync_> well then get a bigger vfd or a braking resistor
[16:55:31] <zeeshan|2> why though guys
[16:55:39] <zeeshan|2> what makes a resistor superior to dc injection
[16:55:46] <zeeshan|2> both do the same thing at the end of the day right?
[16:55:52] <Tom_itx> it keeps you warm in the winter
[16:56:13] <pcw_home> because it a better solution since Z needs to track
[16:56:14] <Tom_itx> and it's probably not as hard on the driver
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[16:56:48] <Sync_> zeeshan|2: you get a controlled ramp
[16:56:49] <pcw_home> better to have controlled accel ramps
[16:56:54] <pcw_home> ha
[16:56:54] <Sync_> instead of whatever is happening inside the motor
[16:57:24] <zeeshan|2> would another benefit be
[16:57:26] <zeeshan|2> less heating of the motor?
[16:57:39] <zeeshan|2> cause you're not applying dc now
[16:57:40] <pcw_home> and the brake resistor/ faster accel helps everywhere
[16:57:53] <Sync_> well, the heat will be about the same
[16:57:57] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, i'm not sure that would matter
[16:58:03] <Sync_> the only problem is when you are using the DC brake to hold a load
[16:58:06] <Tom_itx> the motor is still acting like a generator
[16:58:09] <Sync_> because you need external cooling
[16:59:37] <zeeshan|2> im not holding a load with it sync
[16:59:42] <zeeshan|2> im injecting it for .4 sec
[16:59:45] <zeeshan|2> below 20hz only
[16:59:51] <zeeshan|2> which is where i really need it
[17:00:20] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: but that extra power is being dumped into a resistor
[17:00:23] <pcw_home> i suspect the drive prevents that
[17:00:35] <zeeshan|2> yea it goes
[17:00:36] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, where is that power coming from?
[17:00:38] <zeeshan|2> "overcurrent"
[17:00:43] <zeeshan|2> if i increase it to 2seconds
[17:00:48] <pcw_home> over voltage
[17:01:11] <pcw_home> oh for DC could be overcurrent
[17:01:48] <pcw_home> you will get overvoltage if you deccel too fast without a brake resistor
[17:02:01] <zeeshan|2> my goal isn't to decrease speeds throughout the power band
[17:02:01] <zeeshan|2> i really want it only for reversal for tapping
[17:02:01] <zeeshan|2> thats where i only need it
[17:02:01] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i dunno much about the subject, but im thinking a static field vs rotating field
[17:02:01] <zeeshan|2> maybe more heating with the static? :P
[17:02:58] <zeeshan|2> youre right
[17:03:05] <zeeshan|2> if decel is set too little
[17:03:07] <zeeshan|2> it'll overvoltage
[17:03:21] <Tom_itx> seems you've been there
[17:03:34] <zeeshan|2> to me i want to do less work and less drilling
[17:03:43] <zeeshan|2> if dc injection vs resistor braking
[17:03:50] <zeeshan|2> is the same thing in terms of rigid tapping
[17:03:55] <zeeshan|2> than i really wanna implement dc injection
[17:04:01] <zeeshan|2> cause it's already done physically for me :P
[17:04:16] <pcw_home> the ac drive is probably more efficient at lower speeds (more rotor flux) so better for reversals
[17:04:48] <zeeshan|2> its a 10hp 3phaser drive
[17:04:54] <zeeshan|2> running a 5hp 3phase motor
[17:04:57] <zeeshan|2> running off single phase :P
[17:05:10] <zeeshan|2> i have experimented with like .5 decel time at lower speeds < 20hz
[17:05:17] <zeeshan|2> and it stops instantly without overvoltage
[17:05:22] <zeeshan|2> but anything above that, .5 is too little
[17:05:27] <zeeshan|2> i have it set to 3 s
[17:05:50] <zeeshan|2> the one thing i can see being benefitting -- correct me if im wrong
[17:05:53] <pcw_home> and I expect you can get faster reversals with a brake resistor than DC injection
[17:05:54] <zeeshan|2> but dc injection is a violent stop
[17:05:55] <pcw_home> when you factor in the ability of Z to track
[17:06:06] <zeeshan|2> while dc braking is a smoother soft
[17:06:09] <zeeshan|2> controlled stop
[17:06:13] <zeeshan|2> based on my decel rate
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[17:14:02] <zeeshan|2> im looking at the vfd spec sheet
[17:14:18] <zeeshan|2> for 100% braking torque it recommends:
[17:14:55] <zeeshan|2> 10 ohm 750W, 2 of them in series and says "Braking time 7sec max, operatation rate: 4% ED max"
[17:15:03] <zeeshan|2> it doesn't definite ED :P
[17:15:07] <zeeshan|2> define
[17:15:28] <zeeshan|2> im assuming that duty cycle
[17:16:03] <zeeshan|2> what do you guys think
[17:16:10] <zeeshan|2> 2 10 ohm resistors @ 750w in series
[17:18:35] <zeeshan|2> this mount sound silly
[17:18:41] <zeeshan|2> can i just take a space heater
[17:18:43] <zeeshan|2> and hook it up directly
[17:18:50] <zeeshan|2> (by passing the switch etc)
[17:23:07] <zeeshan|2> this is a 1500W space heater
[17:23:12] <zeeshan|2> measuring the settings at full max
[17:23:19] <zeeshan|2> im getting 20~ ohms
[17:23:38] <zeeshan|2> PERFECT :D
[17:26:26] <zeeshan|2> wake up people!!
[17:27:35] <pcw_home> stove element as Tom_itx suggested
[17:27:44] <zeeshan|2> i dont know where to get one
[17:27:55] <zeeshan|2> what is wrong with using this space heater??!
[17:28:10] <zeeshan|2> im not sure what the element is rated for voltage wise
[17:28:16] <zeeshan|2> but the cord on this thing says 300V 105C
[17:28:23] <zeeshan|2> http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/likewise-ceramic-heater-0435877p.html#.VdNrNvlVhBc
[17:28:26] <zeeshan|2> this is what im talking about
[17:28:33] <pcw_home> just bulky (and you dont want the thermostat opening)
[17:28:40] <zeeshan|2> no ill by pass that
[17:28:46] <zeeshan|2> ill literally have the wires going to the elemnent
[17:28:54] <zeeshan|2> skipping the fan and thermostat
[17:28:56] <zeeshan|2> and switch
[17:29:13] <zeeshan|2> for stove elements ill need to build an enclosure
[17:29:27] <zeeshan|2> and try to somehow thermally isolate them from the enclosrue
[17:30:21] <zeeshan|2> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/element-small-6-spade/969960
[17:30:25] <zeeshan|2> you're talking something like this right?
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[18:19:54] <alex80> hi - is there someone online who can help me with a tool-change/tool probe problem ?
[18:20:26] <archivist> ask the real question then one might be able to help
[18:20:42] <alex80> okay :)
[18:21:16] <archivist> I use a mandraulic toolchange
[18:23:52] <alex80> i want to put in the first tool by hand, touch of to the surface, set that to z=0. linuxcnc schould measure that tool to a fixed contact. the following tool changes by hand too, but linuxcnc schould measure the tools, and set the correct offset. is that possible and how can i integrate that ?
[18:24:44] <alex80> found al lot of examples but all of them have a incomplete documentation
[18:24:58] <alex80> or the scripts etc didnt work
[18:25:37] <alex80> today i have tried that
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/5596-manual-tool-change--tool-lengh-touch-off?limit=6&start=36
[18:26:05] <alex80> (script in the yellow box tool-change.ngc)
[18:26:30] <alex80> by the first M6 command the machine move the z axis a bit then stopped - nothing.
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[18:37:00] <archivist> noisy switch, code does not match your machine, some other fault
[18:38:06] <zeeshan|2> alex
[18:38:09] <zeeshan|2> you could use a tool setter
[18:38:43] <zeeshan|2> oh you got the hardware already
[18:38:55] <PetefromTn_> the question is what kind of machine is it and is the toolholders repeatable
[18:39:03] <PetefromTn_> are
[18:39:19] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_:
[18:39:23] <zeeshan|2> can you take a pic of yuor stove element setup?
[18:39:45] <PetefromTn_> you mean the one I cook hotdogs with ;)
[18:40:06] <zeeshan|2> no for your vfd
[18:40:06] <zeeshan|2> haha
[18:40:11] <zeeshan|2> im trying to figure what to do
[18:40:18] <zeeshan|2> that i can possibly get implemented today
[18:40:20] <zeeshan|2> i got a week off
[18:40:23] <zeeshan|2> from uni
[18:40:26] <PetefromTn_> I can but I gotta go pickup my kids right now
[18:40:27] <zeeshan|2> wanna make the most of it
[18:40:30] <zeeshan|2> ok np!
[18:41:09] <alex80> kind of machine: recycled stuff / self construced, the toolholder is not repeatable.
[18:41:33] <PetefromTn_> but i just fabbed up a little 90 degree mount tab with the tig welder and tig welded the steel mounting threaded flange to that and wired it up... I put it between the column and the enclosure in about a six inch space to keep peoples fingers out of it.
[18:42:26] <zeeshan|2> 1500W element?
[18:42:48] <PetefromTn_> don't remember but we sized it to the specs on the VFD
[18:42:55] <zeeshan|2> okay
[18:43:03] <zeeshan|2> my prob is i wanna put element in an enclosure
[18:43:07] <zeeshan|2> it seems like a lot of work
[18:43:20] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzUwWDEwMDA=/z/zFwAAOSweW5VLoTk/$_57.JPG
[18:43:24] <zeeshan|2> i came across this on ebay
[18:43:27] <zeeshan|2> looks very easy to mount
[18:43:30] <zeeshan|2> and work with
[18:43:33] <zeeshan|2> and has thermal switch
[18:43:38] <zeeshan|2> i cant decide wtf to do
[18:43:42] <zeeshan|2> as usual im overthinking
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[19:19:58] <JT-Shop> better to let them touch it lol
[19:20:49] <Wolf_> still fighting the vfd?
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[19:24:31] <Wolf_> zeeshan|2: space heater thing should work, a oil filled type should just have a standard heating element
[19:28:28] <Roguish> zeeshan|2 : be very careful if you're using a braking resistor. They usually get attached to the buss in side, which can be VERY high voltage 600+. that shit bites hard and does not let go.
[19:29:27] <Roguish> watch the wiring insulation rating also, and all the connections should be really well made.
[19:30:00] <Roguish> I put a set of resistors on a 10hp / 480v drive.
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[19:38:37] <zeeshan|2> Roguish: got a link of what you used
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[19:43:22] <Tom_itx> http://www.cressall.com/dynamic-braking/calculating-resistor-sizes/
[19:44:00] <zeeshan|2> tom dont be dork
[19:44:11] <zeeshan|2> :D
[19:44:21] <zeeshan|2> Roguish: also this is a 240v drive
[19:44:33] <zeeshan|2> it shouldnt exceed 240v i hope! :P
[19:44:35] <Wolf_> now that I had my fun filled day at traffic court, now to get back to this machine setup
[19:46:40] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 you didn't like the link?
[19:46:59] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i dont know why you sent it is why i said that
[19:47:00] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[19:47:40] <zeeshan|2> im gonna try something
[19:47:52] <zeeshan|2> im gonna set the decel time to .2 s
[19:48:04] <zeeshan|2> and try to map out what freq it's okay upto
[19:49:56] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: did you build bellows for your sherline
[19:51:28] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/2k1QrXG.jpg
[19:52:09] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_:
[19:52:10] <zeeshan|2> thank you!
[19:52:14] <Roguish> the internal buss voltage will most probably be greater than 240v. check with the mfg.
[19:52:15] <zeeshan|2> where did you get that element from?!?
[19:52:21] <zeeshan|2> Roguish: youre right
[19:52:25] <PetefromTn_> home depot i think
[19:52:27] <zeeshan|2> it should be 240* afactor
[19:52:30] <zeeshan|2> i think 340V or so.
[19:52:33] <zeeshan|2> still not 600!!
[19:52:44] <Roguish> just be careful.
[19:52:55] <zeeshan|2> Roguish: i appreciate the concern
[19:53:02] <zeeshan|2> but i was working on live 240v yesterday
[19:53:16] <zeeshan|2> i understand they are lethal voltages
[19:53:23] <zeeshan|2> im more concerned about it going on fire during operation
[19:53:27] <zeeshan|2> when im not paying attention
[19:53:34] <zeeshan|2> cause it's not cooled right
[19:53:37] <alex80> what are you doing ?
[19:53:46] <zeeshan|2> adding an external resistor to the vfd
[19:54:21] <alex80> why ?
[19:54:23] <alex80> breaking ?
[19:55:02] <zeeshan|2> yes
[19:57:16] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: does this look similar:
[19:57:19] <zeeshan|2> http://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/index.htm/Plumbing-Electrical/Plumbing/Repair-Hookup/Water-Heaters/Elements/120-Volt-1500-Watt-Screw-In-Water-Heater-Element/_/N-ntja6/R-I3285242
[19:57:32] <alex80> vfd's that can feed the power back into the grid are too expensive for your project ?
[19:58:03] <PetefromTn_> yeah it was something like that... not remembering the brand name. It definitely helped..
[19:58:10] <zeeshan|2> were you not worried
[19:58:15] <zeeshan|2> that it was seeing 350V
[19:58:21] <zeeshan|2> vs the 110VAC it's rated for?
[19:59:20] <PetefromTn_> honestly it is just a big resistor I guess and it has been on there for a good long time now without any problems. For you it might be an issue most likely tho I just wanted it to work
[19:59:37] <zeeshan|2> you have a nice place to hide it
[19:59:40] <zeeshan|2> so no one can touch it
[19:59:44] <zeeshan|2> i dont have a place like that :(
[19:59:51] <PetefromTn_> and I THINK mine was 230v
[20:00:06] <Roguish> zeeshan|2
http://imagebin.ca/v/2CbC9OF9EhVT
[20:00:12] <PetefromTn_> you are a Tig welder/fabricator just fab up something to keep it protected
[20:00:15] <zeeshan|2> Roguish: sexy!!
[20:00:20] <zeeshan|2> those are so expensive though!!
[20:00:28] <zeeshan|2> haha PetefromTn_
[20:00:32] <zeeshan|2> im lazy!!
[20:00:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah me too
[20:00:38] <Roguish> outdoor application. all the sheet metal was 316
[20:00:56] <Roguish> custom enclosure.
[20:00:56] <zeeshan|2> that is sexy
[20:01:03] <Wolf_> get a toe kick heater and mount it in that, so in the winter you can warm your feet with it
[20:01:15] <PetefromTn_> picked up the first job for the guys at the race shop stainless Tig... it's just a downpipe
[20:01:45] <zeeshan|2> nice!!
[20:01:49] <zeeshan|2> congrads man
[20:01:54] <PetefromTn_> they gave me a BUNCH of .045 ER308L rod and a bunch of more practice materials to play with. Some of that thin walled aluminum tubing too..
[20:02:34] <zeeshan|2> Roguish: did you buy thise resistors individually?
[20:02:35] <PetefromTn_> they also ordered me some .045 ER309L rod should be here tomorrow so I can do these things. Gonna just do the best I can to make it pretty and hopefully it will be enough
[20:02:56] <zeeshan|2> i'd just fusion weld the downpipe
[20:03:01] <zeeshan|2> except at flange
[20:03:10] <PetefromTn_> it's at the flange
[20:03:12] <Roguish> I used an AC Tech drive. resistors from them also. heavily oversized.
[20:03:15] <alex80> on a repair job i have seen a machine drive where someone had replaced the broken resistor by a hair dryer ...
[20:03:22] <PetefromTn_> they put a vee band on the bigass tube and tacked it.
[20:03:36] <PetefromTn_> I gotta finish weld it and try to make it as pretty as possible
[20:03:48] <zeeshan|2> alex nothing wrong with that
[20:03:51] <zeeshan|2> as long as it's rated for that voltage
[20:03:53] <zeeshan|2> and current
[20:04:13] <alex80> yes - but i was confused about the noise :)
[20:04:53] <Wolf_> really showdl work long as you don’t exceed the wattage I would think
[20:05:15] <zeeshan|2> my main concern is the voltage
[20:05:26] <zeeshan|2> a lot of things have insulation that can only handle a certain voltage
[20:05:33] <zeeshan|2> after that if you touch that insulation its game over
[20:05:33] <zeeshan|2> :D
[20:05:48] <zeeshan|2> but someone whos touching a heating element
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[20:05:51] <zeeshan|2> is a dummy anyway :P
[20:06:02] <Wolf_> darwin at work
[20:06:31] <Wolf_> IMO they need to TAKE all the warning labels off of things
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[20:10:22] <alex80> zeeshan|2, and the heating element is rated too low for your voltage ?
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[20:15:29] <zeeshan-mill> yea
[20:15:33] <zeeshan-mill> but okay you know what
[20:15:37] <zeeshan-mill> i have the spindle at 500 rpm
[20:15:46] <zeeshan-mill> and it can decelerate to in 0.5 s no problem
[20:15:50] <zeeshan-mill> with the internal resistor
[20:16:04] <zeeshan-mill> i just need to figure out a way to change decel time for rpms > 500
[20:16:16] <zeeshan-mill> sounds like something i should be able to do in the vfd.
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[20:47:13] <zeeshan-mill> YAYYYYYYYYYy
[20:47:14] <zeeshan-mill> its working!!
[20:47:17] <zeeshan-mill> without additional resistor
[20:47:33] <zeeshan-mill> ive setup 2 stages. anything above 20 hz the decel and accel time are longer
[20:47:43] <zeeshan-mill> anyting below 20hz it accels or decels in 0.5s
[20:47:51] <zeeshan-mill> its reversing correctly now
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[20:51:12] <NephFL> Hello
[20:53:38] <zeeshan-mill> hi
[20:53:46] <zeeshan-mill> "joint 2 following error"
[20:53:46] <zeeshan-mill> hmm
[20:54:28] <NephFL> I have a few beginners questions when someone is around.
[20:54:37] <zeeshan-mill> just ask!
[20:55:24] <NephFL> Well, ok, first, I'm wondering if linuxcnc can be run on android or raspberry pi with USB devices to interface to break out boards, or even network based smoothstepper, etc?
[20:55:54] <cradek> nope
[20:56:11] <zeeshan-mill> cradek youre an expert on rigid tapping!
[20:56:12] <zeeshan-mill> help :P
[20:56:14] <NephFL> Is it something that just hasn't had much interest or is it an RTC issue?
[20:56:30] <zeeshan-mill> neph machinekit is taking care of that department
[20:56:59] <NephFL> is that a user, or company?
[20:57:11] <zeeshan-mill> cradek: i got the spindle reversing down to 0.5 s
[20:57:20] <NephFL> Like I said, I'm extremely new...not so much to electronics or concepts but to the community and this software
[20:57:23] <zeeshan-mill> i got k set to 0.03125
[20:57:34] <zeeshan-mill> but using a value of .09, i get joint 2 following error
[20:57:48] <zeeshan-mill> (simulating a 5/8-11 thread -- largest i'd ever do)
[20:58:01] <zeeshan-mill> NephFL, software
[20:58:43] <NephFL> ok, if it is machinekit.io, that looks like a little lower level than linuxcnc. I'm looking for gcode level interface for some converted mills I have.
[20:59:16] <cradek> NephFL: linuxcnc runs on PCs. The best hardware interfaces are PCI or PCI-express based
[20:59:37] <cradek> NephFL: there are also now ethernet-based solutions
[21:00:02] <cradek> NephFL: and many kinds of parallel-port based interfaces (EPP and not)
[21:00:04] <NephFL> Is there a linuxCNC post processor for HSMWorks?
[21:00:14] <cradek> I don't know
[21:00:38] <NephFL> Ok, I can check with HSMWorks/autodesk about that
[21:00:50] <NephFL> so, LinuxCNC is x86 dependant?
[21:01:06] <NephFL> it can't run on ARM environments?
[21:01:32] <CaptHindsight> it's been run on ARM
[21:01:51] <cradek> x86 and amd64 and yes some ARM but then the hardware support is poor
[21:01:52] <CaptHindsight> you just have to build it yourself
[21:01:56] <cradek> and the performance is usually poor too
[21:02:56] <NephFL> Ok, is there a equivalent ARM/Android type software (I know that isn't a LinuxCNC issue, but figure you guys would know better than me and Google, yes I checked)
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[21:03:24] <cradek> what are you retrofitting?
[21:04:04] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:05:39] <NephFL> I have a bridgeport that I put a PMDX control on and I have a Santec Bed mill that I put a DMM-Tech control on (both parallel breakout style servo controllers)
[21:06:41] <NephFL> but I'm getting really annoyed trying to get old pcs to work when I have tons of android tablets and raspi stuff laying around that are cheap and really should do the job
[21:07:02] <malcom2073> The problem isn't speed, it's timing reliability
[21:07:38] <malcom2073> You can't control step and direction without good timing
[21:08:01] <malcom2073> The beaglebone does a pretty good job of it, it's on the level of the pi
[21:08:17] <NephFL> I understand, but I would imagine that it shouldn't be horribly hard to use an external timing source or even offloading some of the control to the hardware. I understand there are even gcode interpreters for arduino. But raspi even has built in SPI, so one would think timing would be able to resolved there
[21:08:59] <cradek> NephFL: having watched many people go by, I don't think this path is going to make your job easier
[21:09:31] <NephFL> cool...since I'm new to any of this software, I just need to get my bearings as to where everyone has gone with this stuff
[21:09:32] <cradek> even a pentium III has better performance than those embedded boards
[21:09:49] <malcom2073> Offloading the control is fine and dandy, but you have tradeoffs (grbl does this to run on arduino)
[21:10:01] <cradek> so then you end up trying to offload the gui etc, and then you have several problems where you just started with one
[21:10:28] <NephFL> and everywhere I've looked CNC stuff looks pretty archaic in its implimentation and I don't know if there is just another direction they have gone or if it has just stayed where it is due to lack of interest or that the stuff on that side goes commercial
[21:10:39] <malcom2073> Archaic how?
[21:11:17] <cradek> malcom2073: doesn't look like cell phone/video game? it's true machinists are a very conservative bunch.
[21:11:27] <malcom2073> cradek: True heh
[21:11:34] <malcom2073> If you want fancy, look into machinekit
[21:11:37] <malcom2073> they have some snazzy GUI's now
[21:11:43] <CaptHindsight> NephFL: so you have an ARM device with integrated ethernet in the SOC (not on USB)?
[21:11:46] <NephFL> using a full x86 pc as a controller . a new x86 pc set up as a controller costs at least $200 or so...when I can get a touch screen tablet with wireless and everything for $50 that would look much slicker and give me better performance
[21:12:27] <CaptHindsight> so/do
[21:12:29] <NephFL> then, if I were a manufacturer, I could sell the controller in a tablet for a higher price than PC because it seems more advanced (which still works with some)
[21:12:29] <cradek> nobody retrofitting a bridgeport cares about $200 in hardware cost. They care about will it work for the next ten years
[21:13:03] <NephFL> that is what I figure, and am trying to find out...so it is really a lack of interest in advancement for the sake of advancement
[21:13:04] <cradek> nobody here cares about "seems more advanced" or sale price. we're free software folks and machinists.
[21:13:12] <NephFL> CNC markets are very practical...
[21:13:23] <NephFL> makes sense
[21:13:23] <Wolf_> NephFL: if you manage to make something like that work with a tablet please do a write up and send me a link
[21:13:42] <malcom2073> Indeed, tablets don't meet the timing requirements
[21:13:52] <malcom2073> You can for instance, run grbl on an arduino, and link it via USB to a tablet, and use that
[21:14:00] <malcom2073> But then you have to deal with grbl heh
[21:14:06] <Wolf_> first issue I see is lack of IO on the tablet
[21:14:20] <CaptHindsight> NephFL: there hasn't been mcu in the way of ARM boards/tablets/laptops that have real time IO and open GPU drivers
[21:14:27] <CaptHindsight> mcu/much
[21:14:34] <NephFL> I'm working with a board that is dual core 1+ghz with cellular radio, all sorts of sensors, built in video processor , lcd control, wifi, etc and it is a $50 part...and can run standard android stuff... just wonder if anyone has gone that way in this stuff
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[21:14:51] <CaptHindsight> so you end up with the BBB and having to have the GUI on another machine
[21:14:59] <CaptHindsight> or similar
[21:15:07] <cradek> how do you connect that to your bridgeport? wifi?
[21:15:07] <NephFL> most arm stuff has a GPU with android drivers
[21:15:11] <malcom2073> Which fwiw, is how I run (BBB + display on another PC)
[21:15:16] <furrywolf> I'd never use a tablet for anything important. The hardware is the worst of the worst junk, with no repairability or upgradability. many don't even have replacable batteries. the software is usually mostly closed-source, with even open-source linux installation depending on binary blobs to make things work.
[21:15:35] <NephFL> Well, I have SPI, USB, GPIO, pretty much whatever you have in PC...
[21:15:50] <NephFL> the SPI is stable enough to coordinate full motion video
[21:16:05] <CaptHindsight> most ARM boards/tablets/laptops don't have integrated ethernet or a PCIe slot
[21:16:06] <NephFL> I can't imagine the timing of CNC is harder than that
[21:16:08] <cradek> spi might have some application
[21:16:17] <furrywolf> NephFL: nothing you've mentioned there is really useful for cnc control. wifi is useful for getting stuff onto it, and that's it. and you don't want to use it while running a machine.
[21:16:39] <furrywolf> you could make the spi talk to a mesa board for machine control
[21:16:56] <furrywolf> however, the firmware is usually pretty evil, with power management, etc fucking up timings.
[21:17:07] <furrywolf> like a pc laptop but worse.
[21:17:14] <CaptHindsight> NephFL: try an imx6 board with PCIe or ethernet and let us know how it works. I will when I get time.
[21:17:32] <NephFL> Nothing can really be "better" than what already works, but it can do the same thing with slicker UI and more features for connecting to systems like job tracking and work flows with engineering
[21:18:08] <furrywolf> every time I see people's ideas of "slicker" UIs, I think they must spend their time looking at their computers rather than using them.
[21:18:08] <CaptHindsight> the imx6 has the open GPU drivers, integrated ethernet and PCIe, so a choise of real time IO and a gpu powerful enough to run a GUI and has openish enough drivers
[21:18:26] <zeeshan-mill> damn it why is this giving me joint following errors
[21:18:32] <furrywolf> If you animate something, even something like making a box fade in/out instead of instantly appear/vanish, I will want to painfully injure you. :P
[21:18:35] <zeeshan-mill> i dont see anything fishy in halscope
[21:18:44] <NephFL> right now, I'm still just getting bearings of what is out there...I have lots of projects, so I can't focus too much on things, the ARM board is part of a different project that has to do with data aquasition...I'm just trying to think of how the projects can relate
[21:19:02] <furrywolf> UIs should be simple, high contrast, with controls of size suitable for observing from a distance.
[21:19:15] <malcom2073> Well recreating the wheel just to make it shinier is a quick path to *way* more projects heh
[21:19:49] * furrywolf thinks most modern UI "features" are a substantial step backwards in productivity and usability.
[21:20:04] <NephFL> I absolutely agree...one of the things I have done in my career is repair and keep up old dumb terminal systems for compliance, so that means working with monochrome serial based terminals, I don't see why many applications need any more...but I can see what people prefer to purchase
[21:20:30] <NephFL> yeah, one of the biggest problems I have is taking on too many projects before letting the other projects mature
[21:20:55] <malcom2073> Look at what Tormach did with their linuxcnc control programs: They made it pretty
[21:21:04] <NephFL> this project is only secondary to a machining project, lol...that is why my investigation is really idle speculation and research right now...aside from the fact that I need to get these controls up and running
[21:22:33] <NephFL> but I always end up doing random projects like this to make money and keep work interesting...like recently networking some CNC6 machines to upload data from ethernet..
[21:23:00] <furrywolf> looks like I didn't win anything yesterday. figured that'd be the case.
[21:23:00] <NephFL> so, there are no real open source arm programs that mirror linuxcnc or mach3, etc
[21:23:02] <furrywolf> sigh. I need a house.
[21:23:14] <malcom2073> NephFL: Read up. Machinekit
[21:23:36] <furrywolf> linuxcnc could be made to run on arm more efficiently, just needs someone to put in time and effort. thanks for volunteering! :P
[21:24:16] <NephFL> machinekit looks more like programable logic/networking than CNC , no? does it have a GCode interpreting interface with DRO type display?
[21:24:31] <malcom2073> NephFL: machinekit is a fork of linuxcnc
[21:24:33] <furrywolf> I'm not convinced, however, of the suitability of consumer ARM systems for running anything realtime.
[21:24:45] <malcom2073> A recent fork
[21:24:49] <NephFL> Oh, I must be looking at the wrong page, I'm looking at machinekit.io
[21:24:53] <furrywolf> crap hardware and crap firmware
[21:24:53] <malcom2073> Yes, that's them
[21:25:28] <malcom2073> machinekit suffers from the same syndrome that linuxcnc does: A lack of someone who knows how to design webpages :P
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[21:25:49] <NephFL> I'm not looking necessarily at "consumer arm" systems, I work with electronics manufacturers and have some prototypes I'm working on as well, which is why I mentioned SPI
[21:26:08] <furrywolf> you mentioned an inexpensive consumer tablet. heh.
[21:26:12] <furrywolf> or someone did. /me forgets now
[21:26:20] <PetefromTn_> I really don't understand the need people have to try to run something as complex and dangerous as a CNC milling machine on a BBBor tablet... Just seems sorta insane to me
[21:26:25] <NephFL> I think linux also suffers from the idea that they want to keep usability somewhat low so that they can have some commercial success to survive
[21:27:22] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: I did it for faster/better step rate
[21:27:24] <NephFL> @PetefromTn_ isn't LinuxCNC all about running the machines from a "consumer x86 PC" , those are certainly not designed for real time machine control
[21:27:29] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: cell phones and tablets seem to be an obsession for some people
[21:27:30] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: every try to use a desktop pc at the beach, a tablet makes much more sense :)
[21:28:02] <PetefromTn_> I have a drawer full of tablets and whatnot
[21:28:10] <PetefromTn_> never considered trying to run the VMC with any of them
[21:28:16] <NephFL> It looks like those ARM devices are the way everyone has gone, and there are some amazingly powerful SoC systems available at amazingly low cost.
[21:28:48] <PetefromTn_> LinuxCNC has been and always will be designed to run machines well beyond the hobby tabletop toys and can and does run masssively heavy equipment all day long reliably
[21:28:55] <malcom2073> Oh a tablet would be the wrong device, but the BBB is a different beast entirely
[21:29:17] <CaptHindsight> unfortunately the tablets left out PCIe and ethernet
[21:29:40] <CaptHindsight> and the gpu drivers ended up closed
[21:29:40] <PetefromTn_> with the availability of small format CHEAP main boards and whatnot I really don't see the advantage anyway
[21:30:00] <CaptHindsight> and the Linux distros available for them use magic tool chains
[21:30:08] <CaptHindsight> and are very broken
[21:30:09] <PetefromTn_> coupled with Mesanet Cards I cannot imagine going in any other direction for any sort of serious machine
[21:30:43] <furrywolf> my knowledge is a bit outdated, but my impression always has been those arm SoCs aren't nearly as powerful as their numbers claim, with a lot less cache, fewer instructions executed per clock cycle, branch prediction, etc, etc, etc, and all the other features expected in an x86 cpu. but, as I said, I might be relying on outdated knowledge.
[21:30:43] <CaptHindsight> an ARM tablet to control a simple lab robot or gantry would be handy
[21:30:45] <NephFL> seems youtube has some examples of machinekit with BBB
[21:31:03] <malcom2073> Yep it does
[21:31:19] <malcom2073> That's one of their primary targets afaik
[21:32:10] <NephFL> BBB and raspi are based on older slower chips with less features than you find in modern chipsets for things like mobile phones
[21:32:26] <furrywolf> If NephFL has an arm board with open-source and/or non-existant firmware and a good spi port, I'm willing to bet you could rather easily make it talk to a mesa board.
[21:32:28] <malcom2073> The PRU is what makes the BBB capable, not the fact that it's ARM
[21:32:42] <CaptHindsight> the BananaPi has integrated ethernet
[21:33:09] <CaptHindsight> and you can probably get 2D accel working fast enough for a GUI
[21:33:23] <furrywolf> that is, it shouldn't take much custom programming to make a mesa board take its inputs over spi.
[21:33:34] <NephFL> im not a big fan of the old broadcom chipsets on raspi stuff
[21:34:31] <furrywolf> you'll want a dedicated graphics controller, not something that'll take over main ram for random periods of time.
[21:34:45] <CaptHindsight> someone got a Samsung ARM soc on an Odroid working with Mesa over SPI
[21:35:13] <furrywolf> see? :)
[21:36:03] <furrywolf> I don't really see the point of trying to use arm systems though... x86 hardware is cheap and plentiful, plenty powerful, and a lot less faddish than any arm product.
[21:36:21] <furrywolf> arm stuff always seems to come and go, with absolutely no standardization between products of any kind.
[21:37:13] <NephFL> If you are a board designer though, arm is very attractive...
[21:37:52] <furrywolf> if you're a cnc machine designer, arm isn't. :P
[21:37:52] <NephFL> partially because it has such a big market share that the parts are extremely cheap
[21:38:31] <CaptHindsight> NephFL: which usable ARM parts?
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[21:39:09] <furrywolf> if you design your own board, you're going to need to design your own software to go with it, as every arm system seems different enough that software for no other arm system will ever work.
[21:39:23] <furrywolf> while any x86 software runs on any x86 board anywhere.
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[21:40:07] <NephFL> well, unless you can use some standard...like various serial/SPI is the most common , etc on android
[21:40:36] <furrywolf> android depends on binary blobs to the point where it's utterly useless without them.
[21:40:44] <NephFL> because SPI is standard for many LCDs almost all ARM systems do have plenty of SPI
[21:41:00] <NephFL> but what would be the ideal bus?
[21:41:13] <furrywolf> spi is fine, I don't recall ever saying it wasn't.
[21:41:23] <furrywolf> in fact, I even said it'd be easy to make a mesa product talk spi.
[21:41:53] <CaptHindsight> SPI, Ethernet and PCI/e all work with Mesa
[21:42:09] <NephFL> the chipsets for arm I have seen have SPI squared away for you by the chipset manufacturer for various android builds
[21:42:13] <Wolf_> just make sure its plug and play with something like Mesa and it might be a winner if it works
[21:42:27] <furrywolf> NephFL: of the blobular variety?
[21:42:38] * furrywolf dislikes binary blobs
[21:43:14] <furrywolf> also, while I've never tested it, I seriously doubt you can get the realtime performance you need out of any type of stock android system.
[21:43:32] <furrywolf> all power management, etc, will likely need to be killed.
[21:43:47] <furrywolf> cpu speed changes are particularly bad, even on x86...
[21:43:50] <NephFL> I have only seen the libraries on a directory level at this pint, lol, I'll be digging in soon, but I know that the gpio is direct address level, so I couldn't imagine the SPI isn't the same
[21:44:21] <Wolf_> would need custom rom/firmware/whatever its called on arm probably
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[21:44:48] <NephFL> a custom rom/firmware is the same as installing any application on linux
[21:45:01] <zeeshan-mill> damn it still joint following errors
[21:45:02] <NephFL> meaning that anything that runs native in android is a custom rom
[21:45:06] <zeeshan-mill> i checked my Z tune
[21:45:08] <zeeshan-mill> and it looks god
[21:45:08] <CaptHindsight> how will you connect the SPI devices? solder wires to pads on the ARM tablet?
[21:45:09] <zeeshan-mill> *good
[21:45:50] <NephFL> @capthindsight I'm designing a board for a project, so I can make whatever header I like, or change it to RS232 or whatever levels you like
[21:46:06] <Wolf_> have something made with a plug on it… would be a neat venture to make a control head tablet
[21:46:07] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/zzOI2T8.png
[21:46:07] <CaptHindsight> NephFL: which ARM SOC?
[21:46:09] <zeeshan-mill> i get this massive spike
[21:46:11] <NephFL> I just don't know about the timing issues
[21:46:12] <furrywolf> one of the biggest issues, as I said, is compatibility... you don't want to have to re-write for every possible system it runs on. android, for example, each version will only run on a select set of devices, no older nor newer.
[21:46:12] <zeeshan-mill> on spindle reversal
[21:46:43] <NephFL> I've been looking at the MediaTek cell phone chipsets
[21:46:56] <furrywolf> you don't want to have to rewrite all your drivers because you got a newer tablet.
[21:47:14] <Wolf_> furrywolf: sounds like we are talking semi custom build tablet vs off the shelf
[21:47:41] <NephFL> No, this would be a purpose built device.
[21:48:05] <NephFL> Well, general purpose, because I'm working on using it in different data aquasition project
[21:48:18] <NephFL> but I can throw on any headers I like without costing me anything
[21:48:23] <CaptHindsight> NephFL: you'll run into driver and tool chain issues with Mediatek
[21:48:32] <NephFL> yeah, I already have
[21:49:02] <NephFL> its hard to even get someone who can talk to them, manufacturing is in china, management in Taiwan and never two shall the twain meet
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[21:49:31] <CaptHindsight> Rockchip’s RK3288 is in the new Chromebooks, most drivers are there
[21:49:44] <furrywolf> if you build a custom board, you'll need to maintain drivers for it for future software versions as well.
[21:49:50] <NephFL> at this point, I'm basically hacking/reverse engeneering for the development I'm doing
[21:50:07] <NephFL> well, unless the MTK drivers will suffice..then they can maintain them
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[21:51:27] <CaptHindsight> even Mediatek is having driver problems
[21:51:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/200974-mediatek-may-license-amds-radeon-for-next-gen-smartphone-tablet-graphics-chip
[21:52:10] <CaptHindsight> why they might be using AMD for their next SOC's
[21:52:32] <CaptHindsight> even though AMD is having Linux driver issues of their own :)
[21:52:51] <NephFL> really, I don't have nearly enough info until I dig into that project more...
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[21:55:38] <zeeshan-mill> does anyone know how to tell if you've set your acceleration values TOO high for a dc servo in linuxcnc?
[21:56:11] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan-mill: motor output level is pinned during moves?
[21:58:02] <zeeshan-mill> by output level
[21:58:22] <zeeshan-mill> you mean i need to monitor velocity of the servo
[21:58:30] <zeeshan-mill> and see if the rate of change of that doesnt change
[21:58:33] <zeeshan-mill> even though im asking it to
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[21:59:35] <SpeedEvil> I should have been clearer - there will be a maximum current the drive can do - or a maximum voltage that can be applied across the motor.
[21:59:44] <SpeedEvil> If you hit that level, then it's open, not closed loop
[22:00:05] <zeeshan-mill> yes but how do i actually measure that
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[22:09:16] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan-mill: if the axis flies off the machine and into the wall that's one possible way :)
[22:12:05] <PetefromTn_> working on my shop built 2x belt grinder a bit today...
[22:12:48] <PetefromTn_> making those pieces slide smoothly inside each other is always a big PIA.. I thought about taking it to the mill but just kept grinding until it fit okay heh
[22:13:22] <Tom_itx> grind it into tolerance
[22:13:31] <PetefromTn_> yeah right..
[22:13:43] <PetefromTn_> grind it til it fits and call it done more likely
[22:14:06] <Wolf_> get DOM tubes
[22:14:27] <PetefromTn_> it just gets a clamp screw in position but has to be able to slide relativley easily. The other one has the spring loaded mech so I need that one to fit even better I think.
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[22:15:04] <PetefromTn_> naah this is square structural tube I had laying around here. I am using some thick walled stuff too hoping it willl make the machine a touch less vibration sensitive etc.
[22:15:56] <Wolf_> or mill some slots and add acetal strips to it
[22:16:21] <PetefromTn_> did you see the video of the machine I am building?
[22:16:26] <Wolf_> yeah
[22:16:44] <PetefromTn_> it's not exactly rocket science nor does it really need to be amazingly smooth in these adjustments
[22:16:55] <Wolf_> I’m thinking of doing one, but with only 3 wheels, don’t see why 4 are needed
[22:17:12] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean?
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[22:17:22] <PetefromTn_> you have two different setups on the machine
[22:17:27] <PetefromTn_> one is a flat platen
[22:17:28] <Wolf_> oooh
[22:17:34] <PetefromTn_> the other is a large contour wheel
[22:17:37] <PetefromTn_> they interchange
[22:17:48] <Wolf_> I missed that part lol
[22:17:56] <PetefromTn_> making it able to reach into most spots
[22:18:03] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is part of what I like about it.
[22:18:36] <PetefromTn_> I also want to try to experiment with making some tube specific wheels so I can try to do some belt grinder notching stuff
[22:18:44] <PetefromTn_> or at least clean up the notches I cut in other ways
[22:19:32] <PetefromTn_> it's not a big deal but I can see a lot of ways that little machine can make my life easier around the shop.
[22:19:41] <Wolf_> what I meant was to get some tube with a sloppy fit and add a shallow slot + acetal strips to help the slide + fit
[22:19:45] <PetefromTn_> especially the more I get work with the Tig welding of this tube stuff
[22:19:56] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know
[22:20:00] <PetefromTn_> its a good idea actually
[22:20:35] <Wolf_> or do it tow truck style and bolt the pads on lol
[22:20:46] <PetefromTn_> I was planning to just carefully sand the shaft for the spring loaded bit until it fits nice and smooth and then put some heavy grease in the socket to help it more
[22:21:22] <PetefromTn_> once I get the sliding bits done I will start welding the whole thing together
[22:21:47] <PetefromTn_> I was THINKING of trying to buy a used skateboard and use the wheels like some folks did for the idlers...
[22:21:56] <Wolf_> one of my fav things to have laying around in the shop is 2.5” DOM square w/ .25” wall (trailer hitch tube)
[22:22:22] <PetefromTn_> this stuff is 3/8 wall for the base
[22:22:24] <Wolf_> used? skate board wheels should be cheap lol
[22:22:35] <PetefromTn_> 1/4 for the sliding bits
[22:22:45] <PetefromTn_> no idea about the wheels
[22:23:06] <PetefromTn_> but if you buy a whole skateboard used for $20 you get the trucks, four wheels, etc etc.
[22:23:11] <Wolf_> what belt width?
[22:23:29] <PetefromTn_> I think they use 2x73 or something like that
[22:24:15] <Wolf_> check to see if there is a skateboard shop in town
[22:24:36] <PetefromTn_> Oh I am sure there is...
[22:24:44] <PetefromTn_> new wheels and bearings would be nice
[22:27:38] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8ss_PZDWP0 This one he used steel wheels and automotive serpentine belt idlers modified but the skate wheels would work the same way
[22:28:07] <Wolf_> yeah
[22:28:59] <Wolf_> what diam wheel are you thinking?
[22:30:25] <Wolf_> have from 48mm - 76mm looks like
[22:31:52] <PetefromTn_> for the main idlers I don't really care I will just adjust the frame to work with whatever based on the belt length
[22:32:16] <PetefromTn_> for the tube notching I will have to take some measurements with what I do have once it is working to see what I need
[22:32:27] <PetefromTn_> I don't even have a belt here yet LOL just started building it.
[22:32:43] <Wolf_> lol
[22:32:47] <Tom_itx> you know what belt lengths are available?
[22:32:52] <Tom_itx> or cheaper than others...
[22:32:57] <NephFL> has anyone tried to switch a spindle from the quickchange on a bridgeport bossCNC type setup back to R8? I'm wondering if there is a longer spindle or one that is hollow so that I can share tooling without doing all quickchange tooling.
[22:33:26] <Tom_itx> not sure why you'd want to
[22:33:40] <andypugh> Quite. R8 is relatively painful
[22:33:58] <Tom_itx> you can get collet sets for the quickchange as well
[22:34:22] <Tom_itx> wouldn't be any more difficult than the R8 setup
[22:34:57] <Tom_itx> we used to line the holders up on the table in order
[22:35:41] <NephFL> yeah, I just have tools and holders already for what im working on and it would be easier if it was just direct swapping jobs instead of having to have a seperate set of holders for that machine
[22:36:22] <NephFL> the quickchange isn't incredibly expensive, but I'm not profitable and so the lowest price is the best one
[22:37:02] <Tom_itx> would likely cost alot more to switch to R8
[22:37:47] <NephFL> ok...yeah, i didn't realize the length difference until I tried a standard spindle...so, I have to go back to the quickchange, just didn't want to have to buy tons more tooling
[22:37:47] <andypugh> R8 needs a lot of headroom to extract it too.
[22:39:02] <andypugh> You might get lucky on eBay. I found 35 holders (BT30 in my case) for £80 a while ago.
[22:39:50] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx the belts are 2x72 apparently they are a common size for the knife maker crowd and others
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[22:41:38] <Tom_itx> what's optimum ft/min on a belt?
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[22:50:15] <PetefromTn_> heh no earthly idea... was planning on a variable speed setup
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[22:56:32] <PetefromTn_> SOB...
[22:57:01] <PetefromTn_> I ordered that damn Tee fitting for the flow regulator for back purge at the same exact time I ordered the flow regulator
[22:57:13] <PetefromTn_> the Flow regulator came from a farther distance
[22:57:21] <PetefromTn_> I received it yesterday
[22:57:36] <PetefromTn_> STILL have not received a valid tracking number for the Tee fitting..
[22:57:47] <PetefromTn_> its supposed to be here by friday
[22:58:07] <PetefromTn_> sheeeeeeiiit
[23:00:14] <jdh> no local parker store or the like?
[23:00:25] <PetefromTn_> parker?
[23:00:52] <jdh> they make fittings of all types
[23:00:53] <PetefromTn_> besides I spent all of my spare cash on all of this stuff I bought lately.. even if I wanted to buy another one locally I am screwed LOL
[23:01:26] <jdh> http://www.powellfluidconnectors.com/id27.html
[23:02:25] <jdh> I probably have $5k+ in parker/swagelok/hamlet/etc SS fittings, valves, etc.
[23:03:13] <jdh> I buy ones that look like they might be useful when they are cheap
[23:04:49] <Wolf_> parker stores are rape prices tho
[23:05:11] <jdh> sure, but convenient
[23:05:24] <jdh> I go there for oddball stuff.
[23:05:27] <Wolf_> part of the reason I bought a karrycrimp
[23:05:57] <Wolf_> $2k for a crimper, probably paid for itself after 6 hoses made
[23:06:38] <jdh> the place here with the parkerstore does hoses. I have had maybe 6 hoses made there over a 2 year period. I think 4 of them failed on first use.
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[23:07:12] <Wolf_> lol, last time I had 1 hose made, cost $180 I think
[23:07:56] <jdh> don't recall the cost. Fairly cheap though. Usually 1/4" fittings, 2-6ft teflon cored stainless braid
[23:08:11] <jdh> price wasn't bad, but the quality was pathetic
[23:08:23] <Wolf_> mine was a 5/8” rated for 5k psi
[23:08:50] <Wolf_> 20’ IIRC
[23:10:20] <jdh> http://www.artichoke.org/jjpg/fill.jpg That was Rev2
[23:11:43] <Wolf_> what am I looking at lol
[23:12:03] <jdh> gas fill panel for diving tanks
[23:12:19] <Wolf_> ahh ok
[23:12:24] <jdh> before I got enough fittings for rev3
[23:13:34] <jdh> I probably have 10 T's suitable for Pete in my box of pre-rev5 fittings
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[23:31:28] <Wolf_> well, this should fix one part of my lead screw issues
http://i.imgur.com/SUkjjeu.png?1
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[23:48:01] <andypugh> Is there a reduced-diamter part in the middle of the block?
[23:54:03] <Wolf_> yeah, just counter bored the original block for the thrust bearings
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