#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-08-12

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[00:01:01] <Tom_itx> those drivers are probably 2.5-3A and likely 24v max
[00:01:03] <sector_0> Tom_itx, I haven't decided it full use as yet but I want to do 3d printing first to get my feet wet and the fabrication community
[00:01:24] <sector_0> but I want my hardware to have a lot of room for upgrad
[00:01:31] <Tom_itx> you can get good drivers without having to get geckos
[00:01:57] <Tom_itx> alot of guys use those chinese ones
[00:02:19] <furrywolf> I ordered about twenty honda generator parts to use fixing my stack of honda generators. Instead I have a bunch of yamaha motor cycle parts - two oil seals, two dust seals, a headlight rim, and a rear spoke set. grrr....
[00:03:32] <Tom_itx> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/3d-printer/microstepping-driver-kl6050
[00:03:38] <Tom_itx> is one example
[00:04:24] <sector_0> oh ok
[00:04:39] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: you're having great luck with ordering recently.
[00:04:51] <sector_0> I want to get 5 axis CNC breakout board though, not those single axis ones
[00:05:22] <SpeedEvil> Single axis have the plus that you can swap out broken axes easily
[00:05:58] <Tom_itx> and generally have more current drive
[00:06:39] <Tom_itx> a higher supply voltage will allow for faster steprates
[00:07:03] <Tom_itx> using a chopper drive
[00:07:18] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: I have great luck with ordering always. as far as I can tell, the vast majority of businesses are incompetent, crooked, or both.
[00:07:57] <furrywolf> Last time I ordered from amazon, they sent me the wrong item too.
[00:14:13] <furrywolf> one of the many reasons I will no longer shop there.
[00:17:03] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo just scored about a $85.0 solid carbide GARR drill on ebay for $20.00!! WIN
[00:17:10] <furrywolf> email sent. I need those parts! 23 parts for my honda generators in that oder.
[00:17:31] <furrywolf> order
[00:18:29] <PetefromTn_> Also scored a .501 carbide tipped reamer and a .492 Solid Carbide drill for $34.00 from the same guy all brand new... Feels like Christmas! ;)
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[00:21:00] <furrywolf> I'd call them, but apparantly they close at 4PM here.
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[00:41:34] <furrywolf> meh. I'm annoyed. fixing generators was my plan for tonight.
[00:41:52] <PetefromTn_> and?
[00:42:57] <sector_0> Tom_itx, what do you think of this..
[00:42:59] <sector_0> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3A-Driver-Board-CNC-Router-Single-1-Axis-Controller-Stepper-Motor-Drivers-TB6560-/400589227394?hash=item5d44fa8582
[00:43:46] <sector_0> I'm only going to be doing very light milling
[00:44:50] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: and I can't use yamaha motorcycle parts to fix them.
[00:45:05] <PetefromTn_> I love Yamaha had quite a few
[00:45:42] <furrywolf> then you can have these, if they don't send a return shipping label for them.
[00:46:18] <PetefromTn_> these what?
[00:47:03] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> I ordered about twenty honda generator parts to use fixing my stack of honda generators. Instead I have a bunch of yamaha motor cycle parts - two oil seals, two dust seals, a headlight rim, and a rear spoke set. grrr....
[00:47:38] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[00:48:58] <furrywolf> that's twice in the last two weeks I've been sent a completely wrong order, from two completely unrelated businesses.
[00:49:34] <PetefromTn_> apparently the Knoxville Zoo has some Gorillas who just had babies....one is named Obi and the other is named Ubuntu LOL
[00:50:11] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf they probably felt the karma of your constant griping about everything and decided to pile on some more misery hehehe
[00:50:54] * furrywolf wouldn't have so much to complain about if everyone didn't keep fucking up!
[00:51:28] <toastydeath> anyone in here pretty good to excellent w/ libvirt
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[00:52:04] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5168232057.html
[00:52:40] <furrywolf> toastydeath: I have no idea what it is, but I can pretend. :P
[00:53:05] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: that's a decent generator and price if you need one.
[00:54:07] <PetefromTn_> I DO need one but I am as usual tapped out right now LOL.... Besides it needs work and with my luck the part it needs would cost more than a new one
[00:54:47] <furrywolf> I'll sell you a honda inverter generator, but not for $200. :)
[00:57:20] <PetefromTn_> with as much as any decent thunderstorm seems to knock out the power around here I probably should have one heh
[01:00:38] <PetefromTn_> https://asheville.craigslist.org/tls/5149535588.html Wonder if I could talk my wife into letting me get this and keep it next to the couch in the family room ;)
[01:01:40] <furrywolf> for that price? no
[01:03:52] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/tls/5163013489.html hrmm, is that useful?
[01:04:50] <furrywolf> looks hydraulically driven?
[01:05:08] <jdh> Pete: that lathe is in every CL on the east
[01:05:23] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah LOL
[01:05:31] <PetefromTn_> cute little thing I think
[01:05:52] <PetefromTn_> I would take that over about any Chinese mini lathe I think
[01:06:32] <furrywolf> that mill is very close to here. if it's useful, I might get it. I don't know how the hydraulics work though, since it also has handwheels. are they hydraulic motors? or does it have rams and handwheels somehow?
[01:06:35] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf looks a bit rough but if it has a working phase converter it is probably worth the asking price
[01:07:04] <PetefromTn_> you might be able to swap in screws if it is hydraulic after all
[01:07:22] <furrywolf> it still has handwheels sticking out...
[01:07:50] <PetefromTn_> indeed it does...
[01:08:18] <PetefromTn_> probably could just remove the hydraulic stuff if that is indeed what it is and fab up some motor mounts for CNC OR a power feed unit for manual ops
[01:08:58] <PetefromTn_> that ram/kneck part looks about ten times as rigid as a bridgeport LOL
[01:10:17] <PetefromTn_> https://chattanooga.craigslist.org/tls/5165349592.html this looks like a good deal
[01:10:48] <furrywolf> I probably should just wait until I can afford a needs-a-control VMC.
[01:11:30] <jdh> I'd go buy that if it were closer
[01:11:39] <PetefromTn_> which one?
[01:11:44] <jdh> the Tree
[01:11:53] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is a sweet little machine
[01:12:01] <jdh> fortunately it is far enough away.
[01:12:18] <PetefromTn_> I know right
[01:13:56] <tiwake> dododo
[01:14:00] <tiwake> cutting steel
[01:14:06] <tiwake> lots of steel
[01:18:12] <furrywolf> apparantly all those lines are automatic oiling and coolant, with the feed being some complex mechanical system, according to the manual I'm reading at least.
[01:21:02] <furrywolf> I probably should skip it and wait for something a lot more modern.
[01:22:25] <tiwake> shipped a bunch of other steel parts today too... had to get another guy to stand on the back of the forklift so I could move it to the back of the truck
[01:22:26] <furrywolf> I like how it's described as a light-duty machine. lol
[01:22:39] <furrywolf> osha says not to do that. :P
[01:25:53] <furrywolf> 50 to 1800 rpm from the speed control lever... not bad.
[01:29:19] <furrywolf> with 18 spindle speeds and two power feed speeds on each of three axis, it has ungodly many gears.
[01:29:53] <furrywolf> actually, 18 power feed rates, plus a separate fast feed.
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[01:41:31] <zeeshan|2> anyone here machine stablized wood ?
[01:41:39] <zeeshan|2> http://woodstabilizer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/woodstabilizer-slider1-960x600.jpg
[01:41:41] <zeeshan|2> this kind of stuff
[01:41:54] <zeeshan|2> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7f/a6/68/7fa668f56848518ccca904d3e15b654a.jpg
[01:41:56] <furrywolf> it's really tempting... but I probably should skip it. :(
[01:42:33] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: what is stablized wood?
[01:43:05] <furrywolf> "The stabilizing process uses a vacuum to remove all the air from the wood, replacing it with a heat activated resin that in turn forms a polymer backbone in pieces that would otherwise be too fragile to use."
[01:43:22] <Jymmm> ah
[01:43:23] <furrywolf> so, I'd imagine it's a lot like machining resin, with a bit of wood. :P
[01:43:38] <zeeshan|2> im designing a casing for a customer
[01:43:43] <zeeshan|2> he wants 40 of them made otu of this material
[01:43:49] <zeeshan|2> itll be my first fully 3d surface type of job
[01:43:57] <zeeshan|2> im curious as to how it machines
[01:44:01] <zeeshan|2> and what kind of finish can be achieved
[01:44:06] <zeeshan|2> he will be sanding and polishing them after
[01:44:09] <zeeshan|2> but i wanna make his life easier
[01:44:13] <furrywolf> Stabilized blanks may still may contain voids or areas that are softer than others. This is normal, and, as with any natural wood for turning, you may need to fill voids or reinforce areas with CA glue. Stabilization does add some reinforcement, but the pieces are still essentially wood and may not turn and finish like plastic.
[01:44:42] <furrywolf> according to that, it doesn't machine as nicely as it could.
[01:45:01] <furrywolf> how big are these cases? it seems to be very, very expensive.
[01:45:32] <zeeshan|2> about 2"x5"x3"
[01:46:36] <furrywolf> the site I'm looking at doesn't have pieces that large, but extrapolating from what they do have, $150-ish a piece.
[01:47:30] <furrywolf> $100+ at least
[01:47:32] <zeeshan|2> he can get em for $50 a piece
[01:47:44] <furrywolf> 2.5x2.5x4 being $80... lol
[01:48:02] <zeeshan|2> he picks his own type of wood
[01:48:06] <zeeshan|2> and just gets the stablization process done
[01:48:17] <furrywolf> ok, so he's aware of the cost.
[01:48:32] <zeeshan|2> yea this is a pretty big project!
[01:48:34] <zeeshan|2> its interesting
[01:48:37] <zeeshan|2> cause ive never worked on this before
[01:48:52] <zeeshan|2> and he knows that too
[01:48:57] <zeeshan|2> so we're working well together :P
[01:48:58] <furrywolf> "Stabilized wood is also easier to get a good finish because the stabilizing process tends to fill some open pores and evens up the hardness of the wood."
[01:50:26] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/OWWvsp1.jpg?1
[01:50:31] <zeeshan|2> you can see the prototypes in here
[01:50:45] <furrywolf> "The moment the cutterhead (yes it is still sharp) touched the wood the entire blank exploded on me" lol
[01:50:47] <zeeshan|2> i was estimating size
[01:50:59] <zeeshan|2> where are you readsing that
[01:51:01] <zeeshan|2> lol
[01:51:02] <zeeshan|2> thats not good
[01:51:21] <furrywolf> ... what are those cases OF? lol
[01:51:30] <zeeshan|2> vaporizers
[01:51:39] <furrywolf> lol
[01:51:46] <zeeshan|2> he makes custom ones
[01:51:54] <furrywolf> tell him that you're against drug use.
[01:51:59] <zeeshan|2> its not drugs
[01:52:02] <zeeshan|2> its nictoine
[01:52:09] <zeeshan|2> i took the job cause its actually different!!
[01:52:14] <zeeshan|2> its a break from heavy machining steel
[01:52:19] <zeeshan|2> and trying to machine something new
[01:52:38] <furrywolf> a) nicotine is a drug. b) that's what they all say.
[01:53:08] <zeeshan|2> well you can get a sense from someone when you talk with them
[01:53:10] <zeeshan|2> hes not like that
[01:53:11] <furrywolf> along with "tobacco water pipes".
[01:53:32] <furrywolf> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/122262-face-milling-stabilized-wood.html says it face mills well
[01:53:42] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[01:53:46] <zeeshan|2> but i wish i could see a finish
[01:53:47] <zeeshan|2> of it
[01:54:17] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf if you get it for a steal maybe even less than asking I don't see how you could go wrong with it. Like I said you would get your money back just on the phase converter
[01:54:35] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: I don't have anywhere to put it or any way to move it.
[01:54:46] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A7b2v6Pe5Y
[01:55:26] <furrywolf> and I don't think it's worth CNCing...
[01:55:34] <zeeshan|2> why not?
[01:55:40] <PetefromTn_> put it in your subaru
[01:55:42] <zeeshan|2> wow
[01:55:46] <zeeshan|2> that looks butter to machine
[01:55:47] <zeeshan|2> good find
[01:55:57] <furrywolf> it has a very nice power feed system for manual milling...
[01:56:07] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: both plastic and wood are butter to machine, what did you expect? :)
[01:56:11] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: if you wanna move something
[01:56:14] <zeeshan|2> you wil lfind a way
[01:56:20] <zeeshan|2> i rented a damn truck to move my machine 500 miles !
[01:56:31] <zeeshan|2> its a great bonding experience
[01:56:35] <cradek> huh, HSS 1/8 at 3krpm in wood I wouldn't expect to last more than a few minutes
[01:56:49] <cradek> seems like you'd want 10x that rpm and carbide
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[01:57:18] <zeeshan|2> why cradek
[01:57:19] <furrywolf> my pickup could hold it easily (at 3750lbs it's under the weight limit), but it's not roadworthy at the moment.
[01:57:24] <zeeshan|2> does hss edge dull out?
[01:57:51] <cradek> at slow surface speed, I understand the wood springs back right after cutting and then rubs
[01:57:57] <furrywolf> I note it seems to leave a really crappy edge depending on how you cut relative to the grain - probably needs a very sharp cutter and some hand finishing.
[01:58:02] <cradek> I'm no wood expert
[01:58:07] <zeeshan|2> what does that have to do with spindle speed though?
[01:58:07] <furrywolf> cradek: it's not really wood.
[01:58:12] <zeeshan|2> that sounds like feed issue
[01:58:22] <cradek> but wood is usually cut at amazingly fast surface speed for that reason
[01:58:36] <zeeshan|2> but that'll generate more heat??
[01:58:42] <furrywolf> it's "stabilized wood", which is wood impregnated with resin. it's more like a fiber reinforced plastic at that point.
[01:58:45] <cradek> no, probably less
[01:58:59] <cradek> oh ok, maybe that makes a big difference
[01:59:18] <furrywolf> someone here was complaining that if you pause linuxcnc in the middle of cutting wood on their big router, it catches the wood on fire. so wood springing into the cutter is probably an issue. heh.
[01:59:53] <cradek> heh yeah, don't do that
[01:59:54] <zeeshan|2> but thats just rubbing
[02:01:01] <furrywolf> why don't you ask him for a few scraps and do some quick tests?
[02:01:42] <PetefromTn_> I have inletted quite a few custom stock blanks made from resin impregnated laminated wood using metal milling machined and typical endmills. It cuts fine even at low RPM actually it is quite soft and while it still needs finishing the end result was surprisingly clean. It was not unusual to get some fraying at the tops of the cuts tho...
[02:02:51] <furrywolf> meh. I'm tempted, but I just don't think a manual mill that I have nowhere to put is what I should be buying right now.
[02:02:57] <furrywolf> I can't even finish my current machine.
[02:03:15] <PetefromTn_> I will be actually inletting the Field target stock blank I have here in sky blue laminate on the VMC at some point in the near future now that I have the scope mount machined and installed/working properly.
[02:07:26] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2f_EW2mzZU This is really cool
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[02:09:27] <furrywolf> just looking at the first frame (nothing else loaded), looks like they're laid out with spring tension saved in them, and I'm guessing do some domino-like thing.
[02:10:42] <furrywolf> yep. someone seriously need a more-useful hobby. lol
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[02:21:20] <furrywolf> so what's the dimensions of a popsicle stick, and what dimensional lumber would be equivalent? 2x8 8ft? now that might be entertaining. :P
[02:23:24] * furrywolf can just see a bored, disgruntled construction worker doing that to all the lumber at a job site one night, in a ring around whatever they were building, and waiting for someone to try taking it apart in the morning
[02:24:48] <PetefromTn_> I have never seen that before.. It looks cool how it kinda raises up like a cobra when it is exploding down the line.
[02:27:49] * furrywolf still thinks it would be much more amusing with lumber
[02:28:20] <SpeedEvil> railway sleepers
[02:28:43] <furrywolf> nah, they're too short to bend enough without cracking...
[02:28:50] <PetefromTn_> railroad ties LOL
[02:28:57] <SpeedEvil> I was just looking at some 4.8m ones
[02:28:58] <PetefromTn_> too bad it would not work
[02:29:15] <SpeedEvil> 16ft
[02:29:18] <furrywolf> 4.8m is a long sleeper.
[02:29:20] <SpeedEvil> yes
[02:29:34] <furrywolf> I think all the ones here are about 6-8ft... (2-<3m)
[02:30:03] <furrywolf> for large switches/points or something?
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[02:41:02] <PetefromTn_> Well the good news is that my experimental attempt at droop compensating my off the shelf aftermarket scope mount seems to have worked very well. My scope's adjustment range is now well within where it needs to be where before I could barely get on paper with the rifle at shorter ranges....
[02:41:24] <PetefromTn_> The other good news is that this used rifle seems to be VERY accurate LOL
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[02:47:42] <furrywolf> "OK! Let’s get going! Click over to Weed or No Weed right now. Zoom in. Pan around. Determine if there is weed – or if there is no weed. If you have found weed, click the green “Found the Weed!” button. If you find no weed, click the red “No Weed Here” button. If you’re not sure, click the gray button that indicates your uncertainty. Repeat as necessary."
[02:47:50] <furrywolf> the latest amusement from a local newspaper. LOL
[02:48:13] <furrywolf> they show you satellite photos of random parcels and see if you can spot the grows or not. lol
[02:49:43] <furrywolf> they're doing a study on what percentage of parcels have large outdoor grows
[02:49:55] <SpeedEvil> hah
[02:50:44] <furrywolf> http://lostcoastoutpost.com/weed-or-no-weed/ if you're really bored.
[02:51:55] <furrywolf> unfortunately, the images are of too low of resolution... they should have found some good aerial photos.
[02:54:48] <furrywolf> "Can you grow something besides weed in a light dep structure? Theoretically. But remember that we are in Humboldt County."
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[03:12:36] <furrywolf> seems like about 1 in 15. LOL
[03:12:46] * furrywolf is now bored
[03:13:01] <furrywolf> this is a good one... several thousand plants. :P
[03:14:17] <furrywolf> ohh, hoarders! a singlewide with a mound of trash twice the size of the house next to it.
[03:15:21] <roycroft> a more useful game would be to find all the men wearing wifebeater shirts in humboldt county
[03:15:53] <furrywolf> why's that?
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[03:18:07] <roycroft> because they're scarier potheads
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[03:18:34] <roycroft> although i should imagine that a lot of the big pot grows are operated by guys who wear wifebeaters
[03:18:42] <furrywolf> don't see many growers in wifebeaters here. more like tweekers...
[03:19:05] <roycroft> as the grower population in humboldt county increases the number of hippies decreases
[03:19:44] <roycroft> and yeah, tweakers are more apt to be wearing wifebeaters
[03:19:58] <roycroft> but that underscores my point that it's more useful to identify guys in wifebeaters
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[03:20:40] <furrywolf> they're hard to pick up on satellite imagery though.
[03:20:56] <furrywolf> unless you work for a major government, that is.
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[03:21:16] <roycroft> i agree that it's a more difficult game
[03:21:33] <roycroft> but that does not make it less useful, if played skillfully
[03:21:46] * furrywolf is willing to bet the US government can easily pick up people from space.
[03:21:59] <roycroft> time to break out the drones
[03:22:10] <PetefromTn_> SEND IN THE DRONES!!
[03:22:46] <Tom_itx> would that be a crime if you found one spying on you and you decided to take it out?
[03:23:18] <PetefromTn_> I bet I could take one out with this Target air rifle ;
[03:23:21] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[03:23:44] <PetefromTn_> or at least make it hard to use that fancy spy camera hehehe
[03:23:50] <Valen> <- space scientist I believe the US and some of the other major powers can read a newspaper headline from space
[03:24:06] <Valen> the atmosphere is really the limiting factor
[03:24:26] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: that happened last week, or maybe two weeks ago. some guy shot one that was hovering over his property. not government, just some local idiots.
[03:24:32] <furrywolf> it'll be in courts soon.
[03:24:44] <roycroft> yes it would, tom_itx
[03:24:47] <roycroft> it's a federal crime
[03:24:49] <PetefromTn_> Considering we can take pictures of new plantes far beyond our solar system I would not be surprised at all.....
[03:24:58] <Tom_itx> that along with google could pinpoint the day of week and locale and pretty much have a copy to compare their picture from
[03:25:00] <roycroft> but it's also a crime for a drone to spy on you
[03:25:11] <furrywolf> the cops arrested him saying it was a crime, and he has no right to privacy. even though his evidence was that it was hovering over his properties to watch his daughters on his back deck.
[03:25:17] <Valen> PetefromTn_: mmmm sorta kinda take pictures PetefromTn_ there is lots of computer magic in there ;->
[03:25:25] <roycroft> he actually does have a right to privacy, furrywolf
[03:25:33] <roycroft> but he does not have a right to shoot down drones
[03:25:43] <Tom_itx> roycroft, i knew it was... just wondering about my rights to privacy as well
[03:25:58] <roycroft> the drone operator can be charged with invasion of privacy
[03:26:00] <PetefromTn_> thats the nice thing about air rifles...I could shoot it down and NOBODY would know it happened LOL
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[03:26:03] <Tom_itx> so how do you defend your rights to privacy?
[03:26:14] <furrywolf> a right doesn't do you much good if you're not allowed to protect it.
[03:26:16] <roycroft> in court, tom_itx
[03:26:20] <Tom_itx> you'd have to find him
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[03:26:25] <Valen> for picking up pot you want a multi spectral image, that's why they often grow pot in tomato fields, they have similar spectral responses so they hide from the planes that govt fly with multi spectral imagers on them looking for them ;->
[03:26:29] <Tom_itx> and if you wait for court the damage is already done
[03:26:35] <Tom_itx> he's got the info he wanted
[03:26:40] <roycroft> vigilante justice is not permitted in this country
[03:26:56] <Tom_itx> i thouht it was allowable in the south
[03:26:57] <Tom_itx> :D
[03:27:13] <roycroft> tolerated, sure
[03:27:48] <Valen> My only issue with the guy shooting it is where the bullets land
[03:27:54] <os1r1s> I'd love to build a drone tracking device. I have drones, but it would be a blast to build something to hunt them.
[03:28:03] <roycroft> if too much of this happens, then the proper remedy is to make the penalties more and more severe until people stop doing it
[03:28:19] <Valen> os1r1s: I think there's an ep of southpark about that ;->
[03:28:23] <roycroft> i'm not sure you can even shoot down your own drone legally
[03:28:25] <furrywolf> Valen: I think you don't understand the openness of pot growing here. you don't hide it in a tomato field. you build a acre-sized greenhouse. or plant it on your front lawn.
[03:28:35] <Valen> I take it its legal there?
[03:28:39] <os1r1s> Calling it a drone is a bit of a farce
[03:28:45] <furrywolf> no
[03:28:50] <roycroft> medical grows are legal
[03:29:02] <roycroft> but probably 20% of the grows in humboldt county are medical
[03:29:02] <furrywolf> it's also illegal to fail to come to a complete stop at a stop sign.
[03:29:12] <furrywolf> both laws are broken about equally often, with about the same amount of enforcement.
[03:29:13] <Tom_itx> supposedly legal.. it's still a federal crime
[03:29:19] <Valen> furrywolf: I imagine the police would still go after the acre sized greenhouse ;->
[03:29:23] <Tom_itx> it just gets overlooked
[03:29:35] <Tom_itx> at the state level
[03:29:45] <roycroft> valen: the police cannot enforce federal law
[03:29:48] <furrywolf> Valen: nah. they bust a few dozen of the largest ones a year so they look like they're doing something, and that's it.
[03:29:53] <CaptHindsight> Valen: did you decide on a composite mix and design for the new machine?
[03:30:01] <Valen> not yet
[03:30:05] <roycroft> if they do not know that the acre sized greenhouse grow is in violation of state law they can't do anything about it
[03:30:23] <Valen> found some nice docs about the machine design though
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[03:30:55] <Valen> http://www.mech.utah.edu/~bamberg/research/PrinciplesOfRapidMachineDesign/Principles%20of%20Rapid%20Machine%20Design.pdf
[03:31:55] <Valen> vibration control and such like in a steel weldment + linear rail machine + 5 axis
[03:32:12] <Valen> lots of great modelling of the joins and everything
[03:32:41] <Valen> I'm going to use the same mechanism for mine to get the stiffness I want
[03:34:10] <furrywolf> it really does look like somewhere around 1 in 15 parcels over an acre have an obvious, visible-from-space grow on them.
[03:35:03] <furrywolf> and that's just the obvious ones... for every one that's visible, there's probably a few plants under a tree or something.
[03:35:05] <Valen> at least its more environmentally friendly than how they do it here inside a house with eleventy jiggawatts of HID lighting
[03:35:13] <furrywolf> they do that here too
[03:35:38] <furrywolf> and sometimes they do it in houses in the middle of nowhere and truck in eleventy jiggagallons of diesel for generators.
[03:35:50] <Valen> that just seems silly
[03:36:08] <furrywolf> indoor sells for a lot more, and it's not visible from space. :P
[03:36:25] <Valen> heh down in country australia where wifey used to live they had lots of problems with pot plants colonising the river towns drinking water came from
[03:36:38] <furrywolf> lol
[03:36:39] <Valen> heh down in country australia where wifey used to live they had lots of problems with pot plants colonising the river the towns drinking water came from
[03:36:45] <Valen> (missed a the)
[03:36:55] <PetefromTn_> valen that looks just like the CNCzone thread Tom posted recently
[03:37:03] <Valen> PetefromTn_: link?
[03:37:35] <Valen> some farmer called the police and said ey i think you guys should look at this, there were kilometers of the stuff going through a bunch of properties
[03:37:41] <PetefromTn_> I don't have one but the big steel A shaped frame had a bunch of CAD FEA analyses done to it..
[03:37:57] <PetefromTn_> at least I think it was Tom that posted it
[03:38:42] <PetefromTn_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical-mill-lathe-project-log/110305-cnc.html
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[03:39:58] <PetefromTn_> I didn't read thru the whole thing but you can see photos that look very similar in there
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[03:44:13] <furrywolf> found two more... my average might be heading towards 1 in 10 instead of 1 in 15.
[03:46:30] <Valen> http://www.senga-eng.com/pdf/Catalogue%20NMV5000%208000%20DCG%20J.pdf looks good
[03:46:38] <Valen> we were using some ideas like that
[03:47:39] <Valen> interesting that their spindle uses a conventional way not linear ways
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[03:54:06] <PetefromTn_> damn that is some impressive machine carcass LOL
[03:55:28] <PetefromTn_> it actually kind of reminds me of the way the Mechmate CNC router design is setup with raised X rails and the Y carriage runs across them holding the Z which spans the wide gap between the Y carriage rails... It's a good design I think
[03:55:49] <Valen> I like it because it keeps the crap off the rails
[03:55:57] <PetefromTn_> exactly
[03:56:27] <PetefromTn_> and of course the mechmate does not have that glorious monstrous five axis dual rotary table tho hehe
[03:57:06] <norias> programmed a multi-slide lathe today
[03:57:07] <CaptHindsight> sure beats found plywood, threaded rods, hot melt and c-clamps
[03:57:09] <norias> good times
[03:57:29] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight LOL
[03:57:41] <PetefromTn_> norias nice man I would not know where to begin LOL
[03:58:00] <norias> kept it simple
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[03:58:11] <norias> i'm excited to get to play them, though
[03:58:13] <furrywolf> I know where I'd begin....
[03:58:16] <furrywolf> the FM. :)
[03:58:20] <norias> could be a real good time
[03:58:40] <norias> there's these wait codes
[03:58:48] <norias> that i don't fully have a handle on yet
[03:58:54] <norias> to coordinate stuff
[03:59:18] <norias> supposedly the key to making them productive is having two tools machining the part at a time
[03:59:21] <PetefromTn_> what CAM are you using?
[03:59:36] <norias> FingersCAM
[03:59:37] <furrywolf> I think noriascam.
[04:00:14] <norias> none of the features are hard enough to justify CAM
[04:00:26] <norias> and the folks that did the training, etc
[04:00:43] <norias> pretty much say there isn't a CAM out there that can do the coordinating all the tools / axiis
[04:00:57] <norias> so folks just cam stuff as if it were a normal lathe
[04:01:00] <norias> then cut and paste
[04:01:06] <norias> and add in the wait codes, etc
[04:01:15] <PetefromTn_> ya know the only thing that is scary about that big ass 5 axis machine and a lot of the newer similar machines is that direct drive spindle... I am quite sure that thing is an extremely expensive part to have rebuilt most likely
[04:01:37] <norias> heh
[04:01:56] <norias> i didn't crash anything
[04:01:59] <furrywolf> I wonder how good of a spindle the motor in my washing machine would make? :)
[04:02:02] <norias> i had one moment of
[04:02:06] <CaptHindsight> when is a spindle rebuild <$100?
[04:02:11] <norias> "Holy fuck... naw, I planned it that way."
[04:02:24] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: Sherline
[04:02:41] <Valen> heh 1200kg
[04:03:01] <PetefromTn_> I LOATHE having to eventually do the spindle rebuild on my machine and I can do it myself....just the bearings are way over a grand LOL
[04:03:12] <Valen> ouch
[04:03:20] <CaptHindsight> looks like overkill for milling wax patterns
[04:03:20] <Valen> we want to do air bearings
[04:03:23] <PetefromTn_> WAY ouch
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[04:04:20] <PetefromTn_> are you going to try to machine your own or use something off the shelf?
[04:04:49] <norias> why is it listening to Slayer right before (or in) bed
[04:04:52] <norias> helps me sleep?
[04:04:55] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: i did ask him for a few scraps
[04:05:16] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: got pics of the finish?
[04:05:27] <zeeshan|2> and by typical do you mean hss for the end mills
[04:05:55] <PetefromTn_> norias I often do the same thing but not to slayer LOL...
[04:06:03] <PetefromTn_> what machine is it you are running?
[04:06:22] <furrywolf> Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself, and let your mind go... close your eyes, forget your name, step outside yourself, let your thoughts drain, as you go insane, go insane... (ok, I'm probably butchering those horribly, but my stereo is currently off)
[04:06:34] <norias> heh
[04:06:54] <norias> PetefromTn_: it's one of these Taiwanese machines
[04:06:55] <norias> linco
[04:06:58] <norias> er
[04:06:59] <norias> lico
[04:07:14] <PetefromTn_> how big is it? what HP?
[04:07:15] <norias> 4 slides, two turrets
[04:07:19] <norias> not sure the HP
[04:07:37] <PetefromTn_> sweet tho good luck with it.. where are you located?
[04:07:44] <norias> Pittsburgh, PA
[04:07:45] <furrywolf> my stereo has an excellent "11" setting, but I'll piss off the neighbors if I used it this time of night. especially with slayer.
[04:08:03] <norias> I took the job just to mess with those machines
[04:08:29] <furrywolf> living room is three pairs of speakers... 16" 5-way, 14" 6-way, and 12" 3-way... that's 28 drivers and a whole lot of cone area. :)
[04:08:35] <norias> furrywolf" listening to seasons in the abyss
[04:09:00] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 I don't have any pictures as I did it years ago but I used HSS and Carbide cutters of various flutes and designs I was honestly surprised at how well it machined and now would not inlet another stock any other way LOL
[04:09:38] * furrywolf thinks all stereos should have 16" woofers
[04:14:45] * furrywolf playes with norias's stereo, and queues up Disturbed - Ten Thousand Fists, Breakdown Valentine - Surrender, Iron Maiden - Dream of Mirrors, Life of Agony - Justified, and other music that's apparantly good for going to sleep by
[04:17:01] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: i need to 3d surface mill this
[04:17:13] <zeeshan|2> you think just buffing it on a buffing wheel will get rid of the marks
[04:17:17] <zeeshan|2> or will it need to be sanded down
[04:17:40] <zeeshan|2> will be using 1 thou step over probably
[04:17:43] <furrywolf> depends on how deep your marks are. :P
[04:17:55] <zeeshan|2> or 3 thou
[04:17:57] <zeeshan|2> not sure yet
[04:17:58] <PetefromTn_> probably will need some hand sanding work but it depends on your resolution...if you go nutz with stepover it might be marginal...
[04:18:15] <furrywolf> I've never had luck buffing plastic. make sure to practice on a scrap before trying an actual piece.
[04:18:59] <PetefromTn_> bottom line it is pretty easy to work with. It DOES wear cutters down after awhile apparently but the work I did with it never really noticed a problem that is just what I have heard from custom laminate stockmakers
[04:19:11] <furrywolf> you'll want to watch out for overheating when sanding or buffing, too
[04:19:58] <PetefromTn_> meh I have power sanded it a lot and never had a problem. Of course I am not sure the material I have here is identical to what he is using
[04:21:06] <CaptHindsight> progressively finer sand paper to #5000, the rubbing compound, then polishing compound
[04:21:50] <PetefromTn_> http://davegcustomstocks.com/hw97ftdominator2.jpg This is something like what I want to build for my HW77 rifle
[04:21:55] <furrywolf> heh, I fucked up the panels on one of my generators the other day... there was a bunch of sticker and glue residue on it, finally gave up on removing it gently and used a scotch brite pad... now it's matte plastic instead of shiny plastic.
[04:23:06] <PetefromTn_> http://s23.photobucket.com/user/jamdon/media/DSC_0067_zpsace16ab6.jpg.html This one's beech with a hydro dip
[04:24:03] <Valen> damn that is sexy looking
[04:24:07] <Jymmm> furrywolf: QUICK toss on some acetine... shiny plastic again =)
[04:24:13] <Jymmm> acetone*
[04:24:18] <CaptHindsight> that looks like a Katniss Evenrude gun
[04:24:36] <furrywolf> not likely to do anything, since it resists gasoline and brake cleaner...
[04:24:47] <furrywolf> and engine brite
[04:24:50] <Valen> are the little handle bits serving a purpose?
[04:25:05] <Valen> i mean other than looking neat
[04:25:11] <Jymmm> furrywolf: ah
[04:25:13] <PetefromTn_> what handle bits?
[04:25:21] <furrywolf> I do good work when I repair things, and part of that was degreasing a lot of the insides of the generators when working on them.
[04:25:32] <Jymmm> acetone or toulene (which I hate working with( usually do it
[04:25:33] <Valen> on the butt there is like a T shaped bit, same under the trigger
[04:25:50] <Valen> acetone in my experience turns any plastic it interacts with into goo
[04:26:14] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how is that pattern applied? Is that a paint or?
[04:26:15] <PetefromTn_> oh yeah that buttplate is adjustable for length of pull, angle, height, and it also cants
[04:26:16] <Jymmm> Valen: Yep, take a little finesse to be shiny and not glob of goo =)
[04:26:41] <PetefromTn_> the foreend is adjustable for height to help with offhand and sitting shots
[04:26:41] <Jymmm> Valen: really fun stuff on EPS though =)
[04:26:55] <Jymmm> Valen: INSTANTLY melts it
[04:26:56] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[04:27:03] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight as far as I know that stock was sealed, painted that blue color, then hydrodipped
[04:27:53] <furrywolf> xylol does good work on eps too
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[04:37:26] <zeeshan|2> that is cool PetefromTn_
[04:37:28] <zeeshan|2> the first one
[04:38:43] <PetefromTn_> my friend DaveG made that one
[04:39:09] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately he does not make them anymore so I will have to make my own :(
[04:39:54] <zeeshan|2> im kinda excited to work with this stuff
[04:40:03] <zeeshan|2> but i feel like ill need sharp hss tooling
[04:40:09] <zeeshan|2> or finishing type carbide end mills
[04:40:17] <zeeshan|2> otherwise regular dull carbide will look crappy
[04:40:23] <PetefromTn_> http://s150.photobucket.com/user/matospeter/media/100_03821.jpg.html this is the last chunky FT stock I built. I tied for second place in the nationals with that rig
[04:40:38] <zeeshan|2> thats nice
[04:40:42] <zeeshan|2> i like the detail at the handle
[04:40:55] <PetefromTn_> http://s150.photobucket.com/user/matospeter/media/0916111745.jpg.html
[04:40:58] <zeeshan|2> do you shoot yourself?
[04:41:01] <zeeshan|2> (i know dumb q)
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[04:41:11] <zeeshan|2> competition shoot
[04:41:24] <zeeshan|2> (nm)
[04:41:42] <zeeshan|2> howd you engrave that
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[04:42:04] <PetefromTn_> by hand with some carving tools I have here
[04:42:09] <zeeshan|2> wow!
[04:42:10] <zeeshan|2> impressive
[04:42:56] <PetefromTn_> it's okay... the other side has acorns and oak leaves and my kids initials in scroll lettering
[04:43:40] <PetefromTn_> that gun was a tack driver I wish I never had to sell it but I got sick and had to have surgery so the toys had to go
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[04:46:09] <PetefromTn_> this new rifle so far seems to be about as good I guess I got lucky...
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[06:58:01] <Deejay> moin
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[10:30:57] <jthornton> morning
[10:31:03] <XXCoder> hey
[10:31:18] <Deejay> good day :)
[10:41:15] <SEL> hello
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[12:11:06] <fenn> i am watching dan gelbart's "making prototypes" series and now i want a spot welder http://youtu.be/82Iil0fFN9Y
[12:11:54] <fenn> his machine seems very different from the ones on the market, much higher current and shorter electrode holders
[12:23:25] <fenn> it's 15kVA but it looks pretty small and compact, unless part of it is built into the bench
[12:27:18] <skunkworks> I don't remember how many amps our portable one is.. It is 110v and pretty light
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[12:37:55] <fenn> some combination of cnc wire bender and spot welder would make an excellent 3d metal printer
[12:38:45] <fenn> a thing that spews out large quantities of triangulated surfaces and trusses
[12:40:28] <fenn> then you mount interlocking panels with details carved into them to the triangulated surface
[12:46:25] <skunkworks> cool
[12:46:49] <skunkworks> we found a park last night that still had a merry-go-round..
[12:47:17] <skunkworks> Stella loved it
[12:48:35] <skunkworks> she spotted it right away - what is that!?
[12:49:08] <fenn> synthetic animal magnetism
[12:49:24] <fenn> it's a property of the horses moving in a loop
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[12:54:52] <fenn> i built something like this once before i knew much about building things http://har.ms/blog/scrap-microwave-spot-welder#more-2913
[12:55:20] <fenn> it was supposed to be an arc welder but didn't have enough inductance so the electrode would just stick to the workpiece and heat up
[12:57:07] <fenn> i'd use fat aluminum arms instead of plastic with copper wires stuck to it
[12:57:18] <fenn> copper is getting expensive these days
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[13:04:20] <SpeedEvil> tiwake: skin depth matters
[13:04:23] <SpeedEvil> fenn:
[13:04:37] <SpeedEvil> At 50hz, in copper, you only have skin depth of ~6mm from memory
[13:05:16] <fenn> so thick copper tubing is better?
[13:05:47] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:05:54] <SpeedEvil> Or properly stranded insulated wire
[13:06:19] <fenn> i never really understood skin depth
[13:07:34] <fenn> if you have a 200mm * 6mm thick plate it's better than a 100mm * 12mm plate?
[13:07:45] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:08:25] <fenn> so if you have 2 100mm * 6mm plates side by side, how far apart do they have to be before it's equivalent to the 200mm * 6mm plate?
[13:08:51] <fenn> is it about distance or just conductivity?
[13:09:12] <fenn> like if i sandwiched 2 plates with insulating film between them
[13:09:37] <SpeedEvil> In some circumstances, you can bypass the skin depth with proper insulated conductor arrangement
[13:10:08] <SpeedEvil> http://www.litzwire.com/
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[13:14:03] <fenn> looking at http://nessengr.com/techdata/skin/skindepth.html calculator says skin depth of 6061 aluminum is 12.5mm
[13:14:23] <fenn> pretty beefy tube
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[13:55:14] <CaptHindsight> price is dropping http://www.ebay.com/itm/271659536669 $699
[13:55:24] <CaptHindsight> Kuka Roboter KR150L 150SP/2 Robot Arm No Controller
[13:55:42] <fenn> isnt that the same price
[13:56:40] <CaptHindsight> was $999
[13:56:49] <CaptHindsight> ssi: ^^^
[13:58:40] <FinboySlick> That'd be a heck of a project.
[13:58:51] <FinboySlick> Maybe a tad dangerous too.
[13:59:15] <archivist> you can be the test rider :)
[13:59:44] <FinboySlick> Can it handle 140 pounds of bones and flab? ;)
[14:07:19] <CaptHindsight> picturing a reprap with a scalpel http://opensurgery.net/
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[14:10:07] <tiwake> SpeedEvil: what about skin depth?
[14:10:18] <tiwake> oh, tabfail?
[14:13:08] <SpeedEvil> tiwake: yes - sorry
[14:23:43] <t12> lol
[14:23:44] <t12> *Please be aware that performing surgery on yourself or others is not encouraged. Performing surgery is dangerous and can lead to serious injuries, up to and including death. Moreover, performing surgery without the necessary training and qualifications is likely to be illegal, depending on local laws.
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[14:24:42] <CaptHindsight> t12: whodah thunkit?
[14:26:35] <pcw_home> Our experience withe medical electronics companies is not good
[14:26:36] <pcw_home> by far the worst ethically of any broad group category
[14:26:55] <t12> in what sense
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[14:28:00] <pcw_home> dishonest, dont pay their bills, try top push you around, generally creeps
[14:28:35] <t12> the more i've been dealing with business in general
[14:28:38] <t12> the more i see these things
[14:28:42] <t12> its pretty unpleasnt
[14:29:37] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: I've seen the same
[14:29:38] <pcw_home> They just stand out as consistently bad
[14:30:43] <CaptHindsight> you'd think that they would be more ethical since it's about helping people, but it seems to be just the opposite, it's mostly about money
[14:31:21] <ssi> CaptHindsight: yea I know
[14:31:27] <ssi> I'm still trying to figure out how to get up tehre and move them
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[14:35:05] <PetefromTn_> bastards ;)
[14:35:24] <ssi> wat
[14:36:00] <PetefromTn_> today is a SAD SAD SAD SAD SAD SAD DAMN day....
[14:36:09] <ssi> why
[14:36:39] <PetefromTn_> today is the first day in my life that I had to get a pair of reading glasses!!!!
[14:36:51] <ssi> haaa
[14:36:58] <CaptHindsight> welcome to the club
[14:37:06] <archivist> 40+ rofl
[14:37:08] <PetefromTn_> didn't want to be in the club
[14:37:14] <cradek> heh, first day you got them. you needed them a while back.
[14:37:16] <CaptHindsight> nobody does
[14:37:30] <PetefromTn_> cradek whats that supposed to mean LOL
[14:37:47] <archivist> people resist far too long
[14:37:49] <cradek> personally, I very much enjoy getting older
[14:38:01] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Good news! Now you can build your own eye-surgery robot that will correct your fading eyesight every week.
[14:38:12] <ssi> holy shit that's a great idea
[14:38:17] <ssi> diy robot arm laser surgery
[14:38:23] <CaptHindsight> what could go wrong?
[14:38:24] <ssi> so far up my alley it's getting mugged
[14:38:25] <archivist> stereo zoom microscope next
[14:38:28] <PetefromTn_> I swear the other day my wife popped something in front of my face and I had to move my head back to focus on it...she said YOU need some reading glasses LOL
[14:39:04] <PetefromTn_> LOL yeah I don't see no roboy arms working on my eyes no matter who built it hehehe
[14:39:17] <CaptHindsight> if I forget them when I'm out I sometimes use my phone to take a pic and then zoom in
[14:39:40] <CaptHindsight> usually it's restaurant checks
[14:39:48] <FinboySlick> I wanted to get eye surgery up until the point where I watched it being performed and saw the blade slicing a flap of cornea and lifting it up.
[14:39:52] <FinboySlick> Then it was: Nope.
[14:39:58] <cradek> I have the "advantage" of never ever forgetting my glasses
[14:39:59] <PetefromTn_> when I am out in the shop and I need to read some REALLY small stuff I have a set of those mad scientist magnified goggles/hood things LOL
[14:40:18] <archivist> I made my old man his first reading glasses, then he went and got some at an antique fair before he ever went to the opticians
[14:41:11] <PetefromTn_> my wife let me try a pair or two of hers she has two different mag levels on them and I used them yesterday doing some tig welding...it helped quite a bit I think
[14:41:35] <PetefromTn_> so after realizing that I decided I had to get a MAN pair.....the pink and roses was not gonna cut it hehehe
[14:41:42] <CaptHindsight> night vision contacts could be handy
[14:42:01] <PetefromTn_> cradek what do you mean never forgetting your glasses?
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[14:42:26] <cradek> I can't really see anything useful at all without them. it would be impossible for me to forget and leave them at home.
[14:42:42] <PetefromTn_> glasses or contacts?
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[14:43:06] <cradek> glasses now (I have RGP contacts, but don't wear them anymore)
[14:43:47] <ssi> are you miserably blind nearsighted AND old-age farsighted at the same time?
[14:44:14] <PetefromTn_> these I just bought are just off the shelf ones and I am wearing them now...but I notice they are not much good beyond about two feet or so... then it gets a touch fuzzy
[14:44:21] <PetefromTn_> ssi me?
[14:44:25] <ssi> no, cradek
[14:44:37] <cradek> yeah very near - I'm 41 and only wear bifocals for some things
[14:44:40] <cradek> so far
[14:44:58] <ssi> I'm miserably nearsighted myself
[14:44:59] <PetefromTn_> I just turned 45 last month
[14:45:12] <ssi> wearing -9.75 sphere contacts right now
[14:45:12] <PetefromTn_> do you wear reading glasses?
[14:45:15] <cradek> PetefromTn_: the diopter is 1/meters so you can pick the outermost focal distance
[14:45:44] <PetefromTn_> how bad do contacts suck?
[14:45:54] <ssi> they're fine, you get used to them
[14:45:55] <cradek> PetefromTn_: if it's 2 feet you probably bought +1.5 or +1.75
[14:46:19] <PetefromTn_> yeah I think they are 1.5 or something like that is that bad?
[14:47:04] <cradek> +1.5 is probably pretty normal for 45
[14:47:08] <PetefromTn_> I see fine at distance but just recently noticed having trouble up close
[14:47:31] <fenn> some aspiring medical electronics professional should make glasses that detect when your eyes are trying to focus and adjust the glasses to match
[14:47:35] <PetefromTn_> feeling like an old man today hehe
[14:48:43] <cradek> fenn: or glasses that have more than one focal distance in them that you can choose from .... oh wait!
[14:49:16] <fenn> how could that possibly work :P
[14:49:20] <cradek> heh
[14:49:27] <archivist> there are some glasses that are two layer with a pump to vary the focal distance
[14:50:43] <PetefromTn_> yeah......this sucks.......SIGH
[14:50:51] <cradek> you big whiner
[14:51:03] <archivist> get used to it :)
[14:51:03] <PetefromTn_> LOL I know right
[14:51:04] <cradek> you've gone 45 years without needing glasses
[14:51:15] <ssi> yeah seriously
[14:51:16] <cradek> you can see the clock when you wake up
[14:51:18] <ssi> I didn't make it seven years
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[14:51:43] <skunkworks> I made it to collage..
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[14:52:12] <PetefromTn_> I used to have PERFECT vision and perfect color correction when I was a bit younger....20/15 in both eyes I think it was now I am an old bastard and can't see my mics that good anymore WAAAAHHH
[14:52:55] <PetefromTn_> I might need to get some glasses like the Wild Thing with skulls and stuff on em ;)
[14:53:01] <CaptHindsight> DIY eyeball robot for corrective vision, fun and profit
[14:53:01] <skunkworks> I have notice that I now have to take my glasses off to see things close... SO it has started for me.
[14:53:28] <PetefromTn_> heh for fun AND profit.... priceless
[14:55:05] <cradek> ssi: I don't remember when I first got mine, but I remember how amazing it was to be able to see individual blades of grass.
[14:55:20] <ssi> yeah I remember finding the fact that trees had leaves noteworthy
[14:55:26] <fenn> and all the dirt on the floor you never noticed before
[14:55:54] <cradek> on the plus side, I never notice when the shower is dirty, haha
[14:57:22] <renesis> 14:52 < PetefromTn_> I might need to get some glasses like the Wild Thing with skulls and stuff on em ;)
[14:57:25] <renesis> haha
[14:57:55] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[14:57:59] <renesis> guys i feel like this 80s has lasted longer than the real 80s
[14:58:00] <CaptHindsight> I'm still getting used to having to look down my nose to see details up close
[14:58:00] <PetefromTn_> Love that movie
[14:58:06] <renesis> is this 80s forever?!
[14:58:20] <PetefromTn_> damn I hope so....
[14:58:51] <PetefromTn_> I would get a license plate that says 80's man if it were not such a cheese factor hehe
[14:59:10] <ssi> you could put it on your IROC
[14:59:18] <PetefromTn_> ROFL
[14:59:45] <cradek> nah, one of those vans with the space scene airbrushed on the side
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[14:59:50] <PetefromTn_> my best friend in High School had one with Tee tops... he always wanted to race my Father's Vette LOL
[14:59:50] <ssi> https://speedhero.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/carl.jpg
[15:00:01] <PetefromTn_> I LOVE THOSE VANS!!
[15:00:21] <PetefromTn_> RESPECT THE VAN!!
[15:00:53] <PetefromTn_> I remember my father was good friends with a guy who had a shop that built really cool custom vans..
[15:01:22] <PetefromTn_> he had one of those Ford early mini vans IE the short fullsize van
[15:01:41] <PetefromTn_> it had like twelve of those tall narrow slit windows in back
[15:01:58] <PetefromTn_> and he had airbrushed a HUGE beige and blue octopus all over it
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[15:02:17] <PetefromTn_> in its tentacles it had mermaids, pirate ships, cannons, treasure chests LOL
[15:02:30] <PetefromTn_> it was actually pretty awesome airbrush job
[15:02:53] <PetefromTn_> inside it had four captains chairs made from whiskey barrels ;)
[15:03:05] <PetefromTn_> and a pretty unbelievable stereo for the time...
[15:03:12] <PetefromTn_> GOD I am old
[15:04:07] <ssi> yes. yes you are.
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[15:04:45] <PetefromTn_> yup it's all downhill from here
[15:05:21] <PetefromTn_> maybe we really NEED to build one of those jet powered wings and take it for a ride...could put me out of my misery pretty quickly right.
[15:05:33] <ssi> I've heard it said that peoples clothes style, hairstyle, and taste in culture become frozen at the best year of their life
[15:05:43] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: did it have a 23 channel CB or the "new" 40 channel version? :)
[15:06:03] <PetefromTn_> I don't remember but it MUST have had a CB
[15:06:13] <PetefromTn_> you were not COOL unless you had one....
[15:06:22] <PetefromTn_> even if you never ever used it
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[15:06:50] <PetefromTn_> I remember when I bought my first PULLOUT CD kenwood stereo....THAT was ground breaking LOL
[15:06:51] <archivist> some of us had a proper license no CB ever
[15:06:53] <ssi> dude you were under 10 when CBs were cool :P
[15:07:05] <PetefromTn_> that is probably true...
[15:07:22] <PetefromTn_> maybe I am not as old as I thought :D
[15:07:25] <ssi> archivist: ha I have a story you might like
[15:07:36] <ssi> friend of mine was flying cargo internationally
[15:07:42] <ssi> international planes have HF radios
[15:07:43] <CaptHindsight> CQ CQ CQ DX
[15:08:04] <ssi> he looked up the freqs for the CB channels, got on CB and started acting like he was a trucker
[15:08:05] <PetefromTn_> we had HF on the C-130 Coast Guard aircraft
[15:08:24] <ssi> and saying shit like "any yall wanna get your ass kicked? I got two pair of boxing gloves and I love to fight"
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[15:08:34] <ssi> and he had responses from HUNDREDS of miles around
[15:09:04] <PetefromTn_> everyone likes a good ass kickin'
[15:09:13] <ssi> had one guy that came on and said "you're in that swift truck up there aint you... I've been hearing you run your mouth for a hundred miles now, that must be you"
[15:09:29] <ssi> he responeded "yeah well why don't you come up here and find out"
[15:09:38] <PetefromTn_> ROFL...poor guy probably got his ass kicked at the next truck stop
[15:09:52] <ssi> eventually he told them he was at 42,000'
[15:10:00] <ssi> and one guy goes "wtf... are you some kind of fuckin astronaut?"
[15:10:12] <ssi> hahahah
[15:10:47] <PetefromTn_> I remember flying a search pattern up near kodiak alaska and talking to Comsta Guam like they were next door...
[15:11:03] <PetefromTn_> amazing really
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[15:11:22] <CaptHindsight> good times with beam antennas and linear amplifiers
[15:11:44] <archivist> I was messing about vhf and above
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[15:12:26] <PetefromTn_> wow just got an email from the seller I bought two items from on ebay yesterday. two solid carbide drills and a carbide tipped reamer....he combined shipping and refunded me the money!! COOL.
[15:12:48] <ssi> I hold an extra class license but I haven't used it in ages
[15:13:20] <ssi> http://www.radioreference.com/apps/ham/callsign/N4ML
[15:13:24] <CaptHindsight> I never studied for the morse code test
[15:13:30] <archivist> nor me
[15:13:36] <ssi> I only sorta did
[15:13:38] <PetefromTn_> we had to have a license when I worked in the Coast guard but I never bothered to renew it since I don't have any HAM or HF stuff
[15:13:54] <ssi> I had my tech for 3 weeks, and I went to the shelby hamfest and just happened to take the tests there
[15:14:00] <ssi> had been reading the books and practicing morse the day before
[15:14:06] <ssi> and I passed the general written and code
[15:14:09] <CaptHindsight> I heard that they dropped the morse code test years ago except for the highest class
[15:14:13] <ssi> and then I took the extra for funsies, and passed it somehow
[15:14:35] <ssi> there was still a 5wpm code test for general in 2001 when I took it
[15:14:40] <PetefromTn_> that's why you should be president ;)
[15:14:45] <ssi> exactly
[15:15:27] <PetefromTn_> AND he just posted shipping information I just bought this last night!!
[15:15:29] <skunkworks> my uncle keeps wanting me to get my license
[15:15:36] <PetefromTn_> SUPERSTAR
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[15:16:03] <archivist> mine was G8NND lapsed many years ago
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[15:18:03] <Chopper79> Hello, is there anyone on right now that is familiar with the thc.comp file and the signals in the 5i20 plasma config? I am trying to finish up the last few things on my plasma table but have run into some isues tha I can not find a resolution for myself
[15:18:28] <PetefromTn_> Drool I want a plasma table.....
[15:18:35] <archivist> just ask the real question
[15:18:44] <ssi> PetefromTn_: buy mine
[15:19:03] <CaptHindsight> Chopper79: just ask
[15:19:10] <Chopper79> ok
[15:19:18] <PetefromTn_> can't afford to buy what I need for the CNC lathe yet but how much you want for it?
[15:19:48] <ssi> I dunno, prolly more than you want to spend :P
[15:19:55] <PetefromTn_> but of course
[15:20:32] <Simonious> What is the pricetag on mastercam? (I suppose it has a variety depending on what you need)..?
[15:20:41] <CaptHindsight> Chopper79: and post the thc.comp file and configs on pastebin for everyone to see, then anyone can review it
[15:21:13] <CaptHindsight> Simonious: $10-15K last i checked
[15:21:28] <Simonious> CaptHindsight: thanks
[15:21:31] <CaptHindsight> ~$25K with the robotics
[15:22:06] <CaptHindsight> Simonious: it's sold through reps and dealers
[15:22:07] <Simonious> I'm still thinking about building a 4th axis machine, but not sure how I'd generate the gcode.. those price tags aren't an option this week ;)
[15:23:01] <Chopper79> There seems to be some signals that are not functioning in the 5i20 plasma config. The vel tolerance, volts tolerance, under, ok, over are these not connected on purpose and are experimental?
[15:23:17] <archivist> Simonious, hand coding is not too hard for 4 axis work
[15:23:21] <CaptHindsight> is there any 4+ axis CAM out there yet for under $5K?
[15:23:26] <Chopper79> Here is the comp file which is in lcnc https://github.com/jepler/linuxcnc-mirror/blob/master/src/hal/components/thc.comp
[15:23:39] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I dunno but I'm gonna need it if I get those arms :/
[15:23:44] <ssi> might need to write something somehow
[15:23:52] <ssi> I dunno if I'm actually smart enough :'(
[15:24:10] <Simonious> archivist: explain.. when I think about it if I were hand coding it I'd do four faces and then paste them together with a hand coded 90deg rotate in between.
[15:24:15] <Simonious> not quite what I had in mind.
[15:24:16] <CaptHindsight> ssi: there a nice paper with all the maths
[15:24:23] <CaptHindsight> let me find it
[15:24:36] <ssi> the kinematics math is only part of the battle
[15:24:50] <ssi> figuring out how to represent it in a UI is gonna be the real challenge
[15:24:52] <Chopper79> also offset is not reading on the gui
[15:25:15] <archivist> Simonious, I make gears etc so I use a loop in gcode, only have to do one cut the rest are looped
[15:25:25] <Simonious> ahh
[15:25:55] <archivist> cam costs way more that I could ever afford
[15:25:58] <Simonious> archivist: right, that makes sense, but I'm interested in a continuous rotation on a part with little radial symmetry
[15:26:05] <CaptHindsight> ssi: http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/29225
[15:26:08] <Simonious> my current plan is as I said - four faces with a rotation
[15:26:21] <ssi> CaptHindsight: nice, thanks
[15:26:24] <CaptHindsight> Automatic 5-axis NC toolpath generation
[15:26:40] <archivist> Simonious, if you can write the maths for it, then it becomes easy
[15:27:07] <PetefromTn_> for simple 4th axis work there is that wrapper program
[15:27:08] <Simonious> archivist: care to elaborate? I've got some ideas, but I'm curious what you are thinking.
[15:27:17] <CaptHindsight> ssi: would you build on Heeks or Pycam or just start fresh?
[15:27:25] <ssi> I don't know honestly
[15:27:37] <ssi> getting into other peoples' codebases is always challenging
[15:27:58] <skunkworks> autodesk fusion looks interesting - I have not played with it.. It suposidly does 4 axis..
[15:28:15] <CaptHindsight> well a fork until they decide you're safe
[15:28:38] <CaptHindsight> then it's "why didn't you do it this way?"
[15:28:39] <archivist> Simonious, this ended up as a special set up and a couple of hundred gcode lines (if that) http://www.archivist.info/gear/designbevel.php
[15:28:40] <ssi> no I mean gaining enough understanding of it to make meaningful changes
[15:28:47] <ssi> I don't care if they fold in my fork or not :)
[15:28:54] <CaptHindsight> heh
[15:29:12] <archivist> Simonious, http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=bevel
[15:29:50] <archivist> the actual gcode is not on this box at the moment
[15:30:15] * Simonious nods
[15:30:18] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrzU-MMBGIM LOL
[15:30:19] <archivist> the code generates an involute
[15:30:21] <Simonious> sure, but that is rotationally symmetrical
[15:31:13] <archivist> it couls have been dissimilar if the maths was there for some other shape
[15:31:34] <CaptHindsight> ssi: get a project building a machine for a company that runs NX, ask them for a seat
[15:31:51] <ssi> I always wanted to try NX
[15:32:05] <ssi> mostly because it's the only major cad suite that natively supports osx
[15:32:08] <ssi> well was, before fusion
[15:32:13] <ssi> but fusion sucks as far as I can tell :/
[15:32:50] <zeeshan> ssi lol
[15:32:52] <archivist> I asked a few questions about cam prices at a show, one came out with £60k for 5 axis
[15:32:55] <Simonious> archivist: so you are effectively generating the gcode by hand. I haven't seriously considered going that route thus far.
[15:32:55] <zeeshan> they purpsoely made it to piss off people
[15:33:15] <archivist> Simonious, I am hand coding yes
[15:33:20] <Simonious> if CAMBAM was open source it might be reasonable to define an axis of rotation and then calculate Z's that way from an actual model.
[15:33:36] <Simonious> I'd still have relative tool size to contend with, but I'd be on the right path.
[15:33:49] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/2H7wpBv.jpg
[15:33:57] <archivist> once you get your teeth into hand coding it is not too bad
[15:34:25] <Simonious> hand coding is fine for production runs, but not awesome for development.. then again I suspect I could make a one off tool that would do a lot of the heavy lifting for me.
[15:34:36] <zeeshan> hand coding also leads to tool crashes
[15:34:39] <zeeshan> that my prob w/ it!
[15:34:46] * Simonious points at zeeshan
[15:34:53] <ssi> zeeshan: suck less!
[15:34:58] <zeeshan> ssi its only human
[15:35:03] <Simonious> I'd expect to do aircuts or virtual cuts first..
[15:35:06] <zeeshan> thats the purpose of simulation
[15:35:10] <zeeshan> Simonious: waste of time to do that
[15:35:18] <zeeshan> you check critical things
[15:35:21] <zeeshan> and just press go :P
[15:35:21] <Simonious> simulation = virtual cuts
[15:35:40] <archivist> I always do air cuts, it is how I develop the code
[15:35:54] <PetefromTn_> these glasses make me look like a NEo Maxi Zoom Dweebie ROFL
[15:35:59] <Simonious> I do a lot of that too, but I'm pretty novice at subtractive work.
[15:36:23] <Simonious> thanks for the thoughts guys, I'm gonna go hit the gym and think about this some more.
[15:36:39] <archivist> and make one, measure adjust code make another
[15:37:29] <archivist> measure after a pass, adjust, never need a second blank
[15:37:33] * PetefromTn_ did not ever think there was anything beyond subtractive work...
[15:39:36] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA
[15:39:36] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: is stablized wood carcogenic
[15:39:38] <zeeshan> like mdf?
[15:40:10] <PetefromTn_> heh probably...isn't everything?
[15:40:14] <zeeshan> damn
[15:40:16] <ssi> urea formaldehyde is carcinogenic, not the wood dust that is bound in it
[15:40:23] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: only if not properly cooked
[15:40:53] <PetefromTn_> OK great I will stick this laminated stock blank in the oven for awhile then ;)
[15:41:00] <zeeshan> lol
[15:41:38] <PetefromTn_> I know mahogany sneezes the crap out of me as does sasafrass.... and a few others.
[15:41:50] <CaptHindsight> look how stable that machine is in the Mori video
[15:41:52] <ssi> lots of exotics are somewhat toxic or irritants
[15:42:05] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: They released a new video of this tech, btw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax8r7sUV8FU
[15:42:39] <PetefromTn_> why does it always seem to me that the sintered metal looks horribly porous and shitty
[15:43:30] <Rab> Surface texture? In one of those videos they show the material added, then turned...seemed to have a nice surface finish.
[15:44:00] <CaptHindsight> yeah, look at it after cutting
[15:44:00] <ssi> good thing it has Schutzgas
[15:44:16] <CaptHindsight> gesundheit
[15:44:18] <zeeshan> im about to go check out this machine during lunch
[15:44:27] <zeeshan> please get me in inspection mode
[15:44:33] <zeeshan> 1. missing parts
[15:44:36] <zeeshan> 2. note model
[15:44:40] <zeeshan> 3. look at control cabinet
[15:44:42] <ssi> holy shit the whole thing is a big trunion
[15:44:42] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: wire sizes
[15:44:51] <zeeshan> 4. measure machine size
[15:45:19] <PetefromTn_> bet you could make a killer stainless bong with that machine ;)
[15:45:20] <zeeshan> 5. note accessories and tool holder specs
[15:45:24] <zeeshan> anything else?
[15:45:29] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: how to get it into your shop
[15:45:33] <zeeshan> thats easy
[15:45:38] <zeeshan> #4 will do that
[15:45:40] <zeeshan> ohhhhhhh
[15:45:41] <zeeshan> shit
[15:45:45] <zeeshan> 6. see if there are manuals
[15:45:54] <zeeshan> i really got myself owned on that one for the mikron
[15:46:07] <CaptHindsight> yeah, but you did fine
[15:46:17] <zeeshan> this one looks more complicated though
[15:46:23] <zeeshan> its got a ton more stuff
[15:46:57] <zeeshan> also how much do you guys think is a fair price for a stepper converted 12x36 lathe?
[15:46:59] <zeeshan> 2000?
[15:47:12] <zeeshan> its really catered for a hobbiest
[15:47:42] <PetefromTn_> the lathe itself is probably worth more than that
[15:47:53] <zeeshan> yolu thinkso?
[15:47:58] <zeeshan> brand new they go for 3600 locally
[15:48:07] <PetefromTn_> I sold mine manual for more than that
[15:48:13] <zeeshan> i figure machines likje thatr generally lose 1/2 their value
[15:48:15] <zeeshan> right out the door
[15:48:23] <zeeshan> 1800
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[15:48:35] <zeeshan> and then adding a cnc really doesnt add much value
[15:48:46] <zeeshan> but maybe its cause im around you guys all the time
[15:48:52] <zeeshan> that have converted me to "retrofit an old cnc"
[15:48:52] <PetefromTn_> if it is working correctly I would probably price it at about $3500. here
[15:48:52] <zeeshan> haha
[15:49:07] <zeeshan> it works fine for my application
[15:49:12] <zeeshan> i think on the X it holds 1 thou
[15:49:16] <zeeshan> and in the Z 2-3 thou
[15:49:38] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: new lathe time? What happened to the one you converted?
[15:49:38] <zeeshan> i notice most of the error i get in parts comes if i do tool changes
[15:49:50] <zeeshan> because the tool post is a piston style not wedge
[15:50:01] <Rab> zeeshan, I think you're underestimating the time, trouble and cost of conversion. Plenty of people are ready to pay a premium to flip the switch and go.
[15:50:37] <PetefromTn_> ^^
[15:50:39] <zeeshan> Rab: but realistically my market would be a hobbiest no?
[15:50:45] <zeeshan> and hobbiest dont really have a lot of money
[15:50:53] <PetefromTn_> you would be surprised
[15:51:04] <zeeshan> okay ill price it high
[15:51:11] <zeeshan> 3000
[15:51:24] <PetefromTn_> I sold my converted RF45 for like $5k+ and the basic machine is only $1500.00
[15:51:28] <zeeshan> really??
[15:51:29] <zeeshan> wow
[15:51:44] <Rab> zeeshan, there are different types of hobbyists. Some people want to use the lathe as a tool for their actual hobby, which isn't machining per se.
[15:51:48] <PetefromTn_> whats a tormach cost?
[15:51:54] <zeeshan> like 10k
[15:51:58] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: I'll give you $1600 delivered :)
[15:52:15] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i outgrew the one i converted
[15:52:21] <ssi> I'll give you 1800 delivered
[15:52:23] <Rab> zeeshan, add up the hours you put into conversion and pay yourself $20/hr. Probably not a negligible sum.
[15:52:27] <PetefromTn_> so a well converted working retrofit hobby machine is worth AT least half that much i think
[15:52:29] <zeeshan> the one im looking at today has sub spindle not a tail stock
[15:52:31] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: they are never big enough
[15:52:33] <zeeshan> C axis milling
[15:52:36] <zeeshan> and Y axis also
[15:52:41] <zeeshan> and bar loader
[15:53:26] <zeeshan> i have this one client who needs 600 of this small dinky studs
[15:53:30] <zeeshan> *these
[15:53:39] <fenn> zeeshan you can always come down on price
[15:53:41] <zeeshan> i can't be competitive with the current lathe
[15:53:50] <zeeshan> because setup is wayyy too much
[15:54:01] <Chopper79> I am able to setp the thc.voltage-tol in hal. I figured that since there was a spinbox for doing this in the gui that it was pplaced there for a reason. It appears to me only XML an the postgui but appears to be non functioning.
[15:54:09] <zeeshan> but with the machine i describedf, i can make the parts for half the amount i currently want
[15:54:13] <zeeshan> and i can be comeptitive
[15:54:18] <CaptHindsight> http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/tld/5166291855.html also doubles a set prop for submarine movies
[15:54:38] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: rem,ember i came across that same style lathe
[15:54:41] <PetefromTn_> Woah what a beast
[15:54:45] <zeeshan> for $800?
[15:54:55] <zeeshan> where i picked up the mill drill
[15:55:00] <zeeshan> maybe value changes by area
[15:55:23] <PetefromTn_> think I can get it downstairs into the basement? ;)
[15:55:30] <zeeshan> hahah PetefromTn_
[15:55:56] <PetefromTn_> that always seems to be the questions from hobbiests on forums about machine tools hah
[15:56:13] <zeeshan> i dunno how people machine in their basement
[15:56:19] <zeeshan> i absolutely hate the smell of my garage
[15:56:25] <zeeshan> from all the sulfur cutting oil
[15:56:37] <CaptHindsight> http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tld/5154058389.html this looks like Enco/Grissly
[15:56:37] <zeeshan> if that got into my room, id die
[15:56:43] <fenn> they probably aren't using sulfur cutting oil
[15:56:50] <Chopper79> Does anyone know if the spinbox functioned at one point?
[15:56:51] <zeeshan> fenn: mrpete does!!
[15:56:52] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Use lard, that way it'll smell like delicious bacon.
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[15:57:10] <zeeshan> even that halligan23980823039
[15:57:15] <zeeshan> guy uses cutting oil
[15:57:18] <CaptHindsight> pork scented cutting fluids
[15:57:19] <zeeshan> for his finishing pass
[15:57:39] <PetefromTn_> that looks like a nice machine for a chinese one
[15:57:49] <Chopper79> The same for Vel tolerance spinbox and the under,ok,over, and offset led/readouts
[15:58:56] <PetefromTn_> MMmmmm BAcon
[15:59:10] <CaptHindsight> http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/tls/5160409941.html $1250 ROCKWELL MODEL 25-0X6 LATHE 11" X 36"
[15:59:23] <CaptHindsight> better than the Chinese lathes
[16:00:27] <zeeshan> guys anything else to check
[16:00:31] <zeeshan> maybe i can measure spindle runout?
[16:00:37] <zeeshan> cause spindle bearings are $$$$$$4
[16:00:45] <CaptHindsight> lol $11k for this "less than 50 hours of use on it, and we have only cut plastic" http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tls/5163125187.html
[16:00:57] <CaptHindsight> on Sundays
[16:01:29] <fenn> Chopper79: apparently jthornton aka JT-Shop wrote the thc so when he's done with second breakfast he might be able to help
[16:01:57] <Chopper79> haha... I love second breakfast
[16:02:06] <JT-Shop> breakfast what is that?
[16:02:59] <JT-Shop> Chopper79, it would only work if you made the connections in hal
[16:04:30] <Chopper79> ok, I started out wit the 5i20 plasma file in lcnc. Then changed the 5i20 to 5i25 and added what was needed for the 7i76. Did not make other changes to the config. Where they connected before? If so where?
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[16:05:34] <PetefromTn_> yeah right 11k for that 14x40... it looks nice but no way is it worth that
[16:06:06] <JT-Shop> depends on which spin box your talking about
[16:06:30] <PetefromTn_> I posted a pair of my portable air conditioners on Craigslist that I don't need now that our home AC unit works so good and I think I sold both of them....WIN!!
[16:06:42] <PetefromTn_> maybe I can buy some parts for the damn lathe LOL
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[16:08:48] <Chopper79> Lets just look at the Volts Tolerance spinbox for now.
[16:09:25] <Chopper79> The ones that dont work are the volts tolerance and the vel tolerance.
[16:10:34] <Chopper79> Also non of the led for under,ok, over and then the offset under status.
[16:10:59] <JT-Shop> must not be connected in hal
[16:11:22] <JT-Shop> the man page has a pretty complete set of instructions
[16:11:36] <Chopper79> man page?
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[16:11:59] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/thc.9.html
[16:12:33] <JT-Shop> hmm not as complete as I thought
[16:12:59] <Chopper79> I have that printed out but seen nothing that would help me out on this
[16:13:49] <JT-Shop> here is my config http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma.xhtml
[16:14:00] <Chopper79> Let me ask this...... Do your spinboxes function and also the led for under,over,ok?
[16:15:06] <JT-Shop> yea but I don't ever use them, I've even eliminated the voltage spin box and now get voltage from the gcode
[16:16:03] <Chopper79> I have looked over the configs that you linked to multiple times and still do not see what im missing.
[16:16:37] <Chopper79> Voltage set from gcode would be awesome. One day, first I need to get past this hiccup
[16:16:52] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/files/postgui.hal
[16:17:00] <JT-Shop> top lines are thc connections
[16:18:04] <JT-Shop> voltage from g code http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/31-cad-cam/29335-sheetcam-plasma-post-magic#60005
[16:18:44] <JT-Shop> the first yellow box is the hal connection and the last one is the gcode
[16:18:50] <Chopper79> My postgui is same as your besides I removed the joypad connections
[16:19:18] <JT-Shop> net thc-vel-tol pyvcp.vel-tol thc.vel-tol
[16:19:37] <JT-Shop> you need a line like that for each spin box you want to connect
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[16:20:09] <JT-Shop> the man page lists the hal pins
[16:22:04] <Chopper79> I have that one and also added the following net thc-volts-tol pyvcp volts-tolerance thc.volts-tol and when added lcnc erros on launch with does not exsist.
[16:22:32] <Chopper79> sorry not volts but voltage
[16:25:20] <JT-Shop> did you put it in your postgui hal file?
[16:25:40] <Chopper79> yes
[16:26:59] <Chopper79> Looks like you had it there at one point or close to same thing and it is commented out.
[16:27:35] <JT-Shop> this can't be correct pyvcp volts-tolerance with a space
[16:28:58] <JT-Shop> look in the hal configuration screen for the correct pin names
[16:29:10] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/basic_hal.html#_hal_commands_a_id_sec_hal_commands_a
[16:30:28] <Chopper79> My exact line is net thc-voltage-tol pyvcp.volts-tolerance thc.voltage-tol
[16:31:10] <zeeshan> are we hitting another recession?
[16:31:13] <JT-Shop> which pin does it say is not there
[16:31:21] <zeeshan> i see tons of new ads on kijiji for machines
[16:31:39] <JT-Shop> open up hal configuration to see the pin names
[16:31:44] <Chopper79> thc.voltage-tol
[16:31:55] <Chopper79> which is listed on the man page
[16:33:25] <Chopper79> In hal config the listed parameters under the thc section, voltage-tol is listed
[16:34:06] <Chopper79> Under the THC section of pins it is no tlisted
[16:35:43] <jthornton> that's why you can't connect to the pin it is a parameter... it's been a while so maybe I didn't connect up voltage-tol to the spin box
[16:36:06] <jthornton> you don't need to change that anyway just use sets in your hal file
[16:37:09] <Chopper79> I was using setp in my hal for now. How about the led and the offset readout are they just not connected also?
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[16:39:53] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD62EFLJZYU
[16:40:03] <zeeshan> i leave you guys with this video of that hub!
[16:40:09] <zeeshan> no editting unfortunately :P
[16:41:35] <Chopper79> May just remove them due to not really a needed item. If everything is doing its job then I dont really need to see them working.
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[16:45:24] <jthornton> I need to update my web page
[16:49:11] <jthornton> net thc-vel-status pyvcp.vel-status thc.vel-status
[16:49:35] <jthornton> net thc-offset pyvcp.offset <= thc.offset-value
[16:49:51] <jthornton> make sure you have the thc.offset-value pin
[16:51:16] <Chopper79> I do not see a thc.offset-value pin in hal config
[16:51:20] <Chopper79> Must not be there
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[16:52:52] <JT-Shop> I probably added to my local copy
[16:53:18] <Chopper79> I do that type of thing often..haha
[16:53:21] <JT-Shop> I need to stick that pin in 2.7 it's a good diagnostic pin
[16:54:07] <Chopper79> Thats really the only reason I was wanrting all these to work so I can trouble shoot visually also.
[16:56:47] <JT-Shop> this is my current version of thc http://pastebin.com/aiJPnikf
[17:00:49] <fenn> zeeshan: nice post-it notes over the electrical outlet
[17:01:15] <fenn> osha compliant chip deflector
[17:02:24] <fenn> your lead-in moves are really long
[17:03:00] <JT-Shop> bbl
[17:10:05] <Chopper79> Ok...Thank you
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[17:16:18] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Your mill seems shy.
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[17:18:28] <ReadError> anyone have some good tips for squaring off the end of something that was cut?
[17:18:34] <ReadError> like a piece of 80/20
[17:18:41] <lair82> hello guys, My operator complaned that the spindle speed was running faster than commanded, went out and checked nad sure enough, with a 250 rpm command, I was getting 279-280 at the spindle. So I started adjusting the OUTPUT_SCALE in the INI, and got it to where a commanded 250 came out at 250 on the spindle, but If I command 500 I am actually getting 510. I have the gearchange component in the mix as well. Any thoughts what may ca
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[17:19:53] <FinboySlick> lair82: How is linuxcnc commanding the speed? pwm to a 0-10 volt input on your vfd?
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[17:22:41] <lair82> Yes 0-10 volts
[17:23:14] <pcw_home> 510 RPM actual for 500 RPM commanded is pretty good without feedback
[17:24:00] <FinboySlick> lair82: Is your output pwm frequency matching what your vfd expects?
[17:24:43] <lair82> Not sure, the dc drive is older than I am, so I don't really have any documentation on the drive.
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[17:25:52] <lair82> pcw_home, do I need to use PID on the spindle to close the loop?
[17:26:17] <pcw_home> Yeah, if you want better than 2% accuracy (not sure why you would need that) you probably have to have feedback
[17:26:44] <archivist> 10% is close enough I would have thought
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[17:28:31] * SpeedEvil wonders if rigid knurling is a thing
[17:29:15] <lair82> Ok, I have the resolver feedback going to the spindle feedback bar, which that is reading correct, and I checked it with a handheld tach, so I know the numbers are true.
[17:29:20] <archivist> you can cheat and really mill the knurl
[17:30:03] <fenn> but how do you get the vertical stripes then
[17:30:25] <fenn> without a crazy clockmaker's tilted 4th axis
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[17:30:57] <archivist> I did one using a helical path, was pretty
[17:31:19] <lair82> The operator said that the varience was to much, and he was prematurely wearing out inserts on his drill. That was when 250 in was giving 280 out.
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[17:31:27] <archivist> I want to go with the machine http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-EMPTY-B-C-Barber-Colman-HOB-Tin-Can-for-a-Precision-Tool-Rockford-IL-USA-/281771306879
[17:31:44] <lair82> I guess I need to look at PID on the spindle
[17:31:45] <archivist> shame it costs twice as much for the postage
[17:33:35] <pcw_home> well if you scale it so you split the difference ( so 250 RPM reads a bit low and 500 a bit high, you can probably get within 1% )
[17:33:58] <FinboySlick> lair82: My approach would be to first test if the drive itself is matching the voltage signal (taking pwm out of the equation).
[17:34:49] <FinboySlick> lair82: If you're supposed to get, say 400rpm at 5v, feed it 5.000v and see how close it gets.
[17:36:58] <pcw_home> not sure how much RPM variance you get with load either ( if this is significant , closed loop spindle control probably makes sense )
[17:37:45] <skunkworks> The big machine - we have not closed looped it yet. It follows pretty well
[17:37:50] <pcw_home> though 2% sounds pretty good cant imagine that much variation has any effect on machining but IANAM
[17:38:26] <lair82> I would hope not very much at all, it is a 50HP Reliance DC Spindle motor, on a machine that is rated for 30 HP
[17:38:39] <FinboySlick> skunkworks: You the one with the horizontal cincinati, right?
[17:38:50] <skunkworks> kerney and trecker
[17:39:17] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
[17:39:18] <ssi> I prefer trecker's solo work
[17:39:24] <FinboySlick> skunkworks: Right the cincinati is the huge 5 axis monster.
[17:39:38] <skunkworks> that is stuart in witchita
[17:39:59] <FinboySlick> That one is such a beautiful beast.
[17:40:47] <skunkworks> mine is pretty sexy too
[17:40:54] <lair82> Could I use a AA battery, 1.5 Volts should get me 240 rpms, If I am doing my math correctly
[17:42:04] <FinboySlick> skunkworks: Yours is like a little factory ;)
[17:43:01] <fenn> lair82: an AA battery won't be exactly 1.5 volts
[17:43:18] <fenn> you could measure the voltage and re-do the calculation though
[17:43:34] <FinboySlick> lair82: Better hook a multimeter to the setup to know exactly what you're feeding it.
[17:44:08] <lair82> Ok, I will go that route, I don't really have any power supplies that are lower than 24vdc
[17:45:03] <lair82> Question though, that is the correct parameter to change in this situation, correct?
[17:50:55] <pcw_home> output scale is the main thing (and you should be able to split the difference between 1/2 speed and full speed errors )
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[18:22:03] <skunkworks> The drive might have some scaling also.. I think I got ours to track decent by adjusting the actual vfd
[18:36:31] <PetefromTn_> http://thebikeshed.cc/2014/01/09/colins-82-virago/ Beautiful....
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[18:47:55] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: That's a drum brake in the back, no?
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[19:01:37] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/mnXWgkr.jpg Yup.... here's another beauty...
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[19:09:01] <CaptHindsight> I see a disk and caliper in the rear of the bike/
[19:09:30] <PetefromTn_> where?
[19:10:03] <PetefromTn_> believe it or not that WAS a homely 1982 Yamaha 920 Virago at one time LOL
[19:10:03] <CaptHindsight> yellow/gold caliper below center of wheel facing the camera
[19:10:35] <CaptHindsight> yamazaki 920
[19:11:02] <PetefromTn_> are you talking about the first pic or the second one?
[19:11:04] <CaptHindsight> a very drinkable Japanese whiskey
[19:11:16] <CaptHindsight> second pic
[19:11:51] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah the second one has a completely custom build swingarm and has been setup with chain drive in lieu of the shaft drive
[19:12:18] <PetefromTn_> that second one is some piece of work there are too many custom touches to count on it LOL
[19:12:26] <CaptHindsight> dual piston front caliper and beefy disk
[19:12:35] <CaptHindsight> in the first pic
[19:13:29] <PetefromTn_> I love the second pic how the bike has that MASSIVE single disk setup in front to vastly improve braking yet still retain visibility of those wire wheels...
[19:13:34] <CaptHindsight> and a big ugly drum on the back of the first bike, like it was scavenged from a 1903 Knutzenbuster
[19:13:46] <PetefromTn_> I wonder what sort of tank that is on the second one...
[19:14:25] <CaptHindsight> like the wheels float on air
[19:14:27] <PetefromTn_> Yeah that is what the bike came with actually... shaft drive/Drum 1982!!
[19:14:38] <Loetmichel> *phew* back in the hotel... THAT was a day. 9am to 9pm on the road in london shovin' a wheelchair with 2 bent caster wheels.. and in exess of 250 pounds of wife aboard. At least we covered mdme tussauds AND the bigbus tour. AND the tower of london. AND a city cruise on the thames... and now my feet dont carry me ANY further :-(
[19:14:54] <CaptHindsight> lol
[19:14:59] <PetefromTn_> I have seen quite a few of these custom virago's lately and I have been thinking of getting one and doing my own flavor on it LOL
[19:15:56] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: what no final night of dancing at the Hotel bar?
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[19:17:36] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: i am lucky when my feet will carry me from the rooms desk to te bed.
[19:17:42] <Loetmichel> i am totally exhusted
[19:17:51] <Loetmichel> exhausted
[19:18:22] <CaptHindsight> and you had a great time
[19:18:38] <Loetmichel> my wife sure had
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[19:22:18] <Loetmichel> especially the way back from the pier to the tower was a challenge... had m hert beting up my throat after that steep incline :-(
[19:22:23] <PetefromTn_> What a good Hubby to do that for her.... I am sure she enjoyed herself with you.
[19:22:36] <Loetmichel> heart
[19:23:22] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn_: what else could i do?
[19:23:52] <Loetmichel> thats our first vacation we could book together in the last 6 years
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[19:24:31] <PetefromTn_> I was not being a smartass I think it is wonderful you did that for her and had fun together despite the difficulty for you.
[19:25:41] <Loetmichel> lets say i am happy that she is happy with that week
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[19:26:27] <Loetmichel> i'll need another week (that i won't get from my employer) to get back to power tho ;-)
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[19:26:44] <PetefromTn_> :D
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[19:28:44] <Loetmichel> it seems i got bit of lack in the training department ;-)
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[19:55:41] <skunkworks> blockh34d, are you blockhead from mach forums?
[19:55:58] <skunkworks> (probably not)
[19:57:17] <_methods> http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/12/asia/china-port-explosion/
[19:58:24] <blockh34d> skunkworks: no
[19:59:26] <skunkworks> good - (he isn't very nice imho_
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[20:00:33] <blockh34d> noted
[20:00:50] <blockh34d> i am working on this currently http://s24.postimg.org/4k0xp5vn9/cnc_new_portrait.jpg
[20:01:11] <blockh34d> its a 3d printed cnc that runs on conduit, just building it for a laugh, curious what the results end up looking like
[20:01:14] <_methods> oooh pipes
[20:01:19] <blockh34d> haha ya
[20:01:35] <blockh34d> i wish the project creator had worked in a way to preload the rollers
[20:01:37] <ssi> looks pretty good
[20:01:39] <blockh34d> but oh well, its pretty snug
[20:01:41] <ssi> not terribly rigid, but looks good
[20:01:42] <blockh34d> thanks
[20:01:52] <blockh34d> yah i plan on keep ing the sideload real low
[20:02:02] <blockh34d> dragknife, maybe real shallow cuts on wood etc
[20:02:21] <blockh34d> allegedly you can put an extruder on that, maybe i'll 3d print large stuff very slowly
[20:02:43] <blockh34d> i think about maybe weird extruders though, concrete or something like that, really tall layer heights etc
[20:03:29] <blockh34d> if anyone wants to see that project closer its thingiverse item 724999
[20:03:39] <blockh34d> have a nice day
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[20:09:07] <CaptHindsight> working your way to this bad boy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PSG2al1Sus :)
[20:10:27] <zeeshan-lab> hi
[20:10:31] <zeeshan-lab> gonna pass on that machine
[20:10:32] <zeeshan-lab> :(
[20:10:36] <zeeshan-lab> its worth a lot
[20:10:39] <zeeshan-lab> but its in pieces
[20:12:44] <CaptHindsight> easier to move
[20:12:58] <_methods> oooh my favorite pipe cnc video
[20:13:11] <zeeshan-lab> CaptHindsight: no
[20:13:17] <zeeshan-lab> its like 12000lb +
[20:13:38] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan-lab: have a pic?
[20:13:43] <zeeshan-lab> CaptHindsight: yes posting
[20:14:06] <zeeshan-lab> so it has y axis , c axis
[20:14:09] <zeeshan-lab> live tooling, sub spindle
[20:14:13] <zeeshan-lab> no bar loader
[20:14:24] <zeeshan-lab> if you were to buy a new haas with same featuers
[20:14:27] <zeeshan-lab> its 200k +
[20:14:30] <zeeshan-lab> http://imgur.com/a/fQEVW
[20:14:45] <zeeshan-lab> my problem is itll cost a lot to get it running again
[20:14:52] <zeeshan-lab> he wants 3800 w/ some tooling for the machine
[20:14:54] <zeeshan-lab> itll cost 1500 to move it
[20:15:06] <zeeshan-lab> and my entire garage will be tied up for 6 months trying to get it to run
[20:15:10] <zeeshan-lab> dont think i can do that
[20:15:13] <blockh34d> CaptHindsight: haha that thing is epic, it will haunt my dreams
[20:15:48] <blockh34d> i actually thought of something similar using some of these rollerblade parts... i've gotten most of my bearings from old rollerblades, so i have about 6 pairs of them around here to pull parts off of
[20:16:18] <zeeshan-lab> he showed me the auction papers
[20:16:21] <blockh34d> the fittings on that iron pipe cnc, phew, adds up
[20:16:24] <zeeshan-lab> the working ones he paid 90,000 for
[20:16:27] <zeeshan-lab> and he paid 22,000 for this
[20:16:40] <zeeshan-lab> says he got quoted 16,000 to get it fixed
[20:18:38] <CaptHindsight> http://i.imgur.com/JqbR9cz.jpg cogged timing belts with kniption fittings, nice
[20:19:04] <zeeshan-lab> i got that on the mikron i think
[20:20:03] <zeeshan-lab> the power rating on the machinei s
[20:20:09] <zeeshan-lab> 45KVA
[20:20:19] <zeeshan-lab> !!
[20:20:20] <witnit> what all are you needing to buy for it?
[20:20:31] <zeeshan-lab> i dont think i need to buy anything for it
[20:20:38] <zeeshan-lab> im assuming everything is working electronically
[20:20:42] <zeeshan-lab> but there is something mechanically wrong
[20:20:47] <zeeshan-lab> thats why they took apart the whole turett
[20:20:52] <witnit> what will cost so much to repair?
[20:20:58] <zeeshan-lab> labor
[20:21:04] <witnit> amen
[20:21:12] <CaptHindsight> sounds low to me
[20:21:30] <zeeshan-lab> says 220v 130A
[20:21:35] <zeeshan-lab> on the name plate. 3 phase
[20:21:40] <zeeshan-lab> so its great voltage to work at home
[20:22:22] <CaptHindsight> 1KVA just to idle the controllers
[20:22:48] <zeeshan-lab> lol
[20:23:08] <zeeshan-lab> itll need a 200A line coming in
[20:23:11] <zeeshan-lab> single phase!
[20:23:17] <zeeshan-lab> im passing on it
[20:23:21] <ssi> better go 400A just to be safe
[20:23:26] <zeeshan-lab> if someone wants this , let me know i can give you contact
[20:23:33] <zeeshan-lab> i think it is a good deal if you wanna spend 3-6 months fixing it
[20:23:37] <zeeshan-lab> and putting it back together
[20:23:42] <zeeshan-lab> you can sell it for 80,000+
[20:23:42] <witnit> you should be able to create a romantic dim lit living space by cycling the servos
[20:23:44] <zeeshan-lab> when youre done
[20:23:44] <CaptHindsight> and run backup cables to the neighbors service
[20:24:06] <zeeshan-lab> i almost wanna buy it to scrap it
[20:24:10] <zeeshan-lab> i can prolly make 10k off the controls
[20:24:13] <CaptHindsight> will they finance?
[20:24:21] <zeeshan-lab> and 3000 in scrap metal
[20:24:28] <zeeshan-lab> but it would be so mean to do that to this
[20:24:29] <witnit> just build banks and banks of capacitors and fork truck batterys
[20:25:43] <zeeshan-lab> i went and looked at another lathe in the area
[20:25:43] <witnit> maybe a diesel generator
[20:25:45] <zeeshan-lab> 4000 for running condition
[20:25:47] <CaptHindsight> mount an extruder on it and 3D print on the outsides of cylindrical parts
[20:25:51] <zeeshan-lab> 12 hp spindle motor
[20:26:00] <zeeshan-lab> turret, slant bed
[20:26:06] <zeeshan-lab> 8000lb
[20:26:10] <zeeshan-lab> hydraulic tail stock
[20:26:12] <zeeshan-lab> bar loader
[20:26:34] <zeeshan-lab> 1984 vs this one is 1998
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[21:02:24] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:09:18] <LatheBuilder2> Hello. Anyone else using CAM 360 (in Autodesk Fusion 360)? I am using the the EMC post and working through minor issues.
[21:09:43] <LatheBuilder2> Or HSM Works in Solidworks or Inventor
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[21:56:10] <naja452> Ive used fusion 360 cam
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[22:19:02] <andypugh> Three cheers for PhotoRec. It is churning away through my corrupted backup volume, and it has found at least one of my Inventor models. It tagged it as f291405440.doc but by grepping the recovered .doc files for the .ipt signature I ended up with a usable file.
[22:19:27] <andypugh> It’s a pity that it is ignoring my custo .ipt filter, but I can live with working this way
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[22:19:48] <andypugh> 50 hours to go…
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[22:22:50] <zeeshan-lab> nice!
[22:23:36] <JT-Shop> nice
[22:25:23] <andypugh> Luckily my WD MyBook runs Linux, so I could just ssh into it and apt-get install testdisk, so the revovery software is running in the same box as the HDD
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[22:35:46] Tom_shop is now known as Tom_itx
[22:36:38] <Tom_itx> andypugh i figured you'd have given up on that
[22:37:11] <andypugh> There are a few 3D models I would like back
[22:37:19] <zeeshan-lab> http://i.imgur.com/tJHjEy7.jpg
[22:37:22] <zeeshan-lab> sorry for the sideways pic
[22:37:31] <zeeshan-lab> why was i told to do it the left one?
[22:37:35] <zeeshan-lab> it makes no sense
[22:37:37] <zeeshan-lab> the right one makes sense
[22:37:43] <zeeshan-lab> you put a resistor in series with the power source
[22:37:44] <Tom_itx> you should share them with your friends so you'll have an offsite backup next time
[22:37:47] <zeeshan-lab> now you probe across that resistor
[22:37:51] <zeeshan-lab> and you can measure the voltage drop
[22:37:59] <zeeshan-lab> whats the logic behind the left one?
[22:38:12] <zeeshan-lab> that is just consuming more power for no reason!
[22:38:42] <andypugh> It also assumes that power can pass through the input circuit. so it won’t work.
[22:38:53] <zeeshan-lab> lol
[22:39:02] <zeeshan-lab> i got told this by an electronics technician
[22:39:09] <zeeshan-lab> !! :P
[22:39:28] <Tom_itx> of course you'd measure a voltge drop across it.. it's a resistor
[22:39:35] <andypugh> For a typical hing-impedance voltage input the left one won’t measure anything at all
[22:39:45] <Tom_itx> somewhat of a current limit
[22:39:47] <andypugh> (high-impedance)
[22:40:17] <zeeshan-lab> theres gotta be a reason he said it to me
[22:40:21] <zeeshan-lab> it seems silly :P
[22:40:34] <andypugh> Maybe the reason is that he is a silly person?
[22:40:42] <zeeshan-lab> maybe!
[22:40:50] <zeeshan-lab> i got my temperature and pressure control working thorugh my program
[22:40:58] <zeeshan-lab> i was missing a fancy little din rail mount for 2 weeks
[22:40:58] <zeeshan-lab> =/
[22:42:02] <zeeshan-lab> http://i.imgur.com/XZG3ejo.jpg
[22:42:04] <zeeshan-lab> thing on the right
[22:42:17] <andypugh> I got the Rivett back together and turning last night. A bit too late last night, my neighbour came round to complain....
[22:42:20] <zeeshan-lab> i kinda wish they made that white box normal
[22:42:24] <zeeshan-lab> so i could use regular stuff, but they didnt
[22:42:28] <zeeshan-lab> its such a scam
[22:42:35] <zeeshan-lab> white thing is $150
[22:42:37] <zeeshan-lab> the base is $90
[22:42:37] <zeeshan-lab> lol
[22:42:48] <Tom_itx> andypugh,is that a pc/mac thing? not linux?
[22:42:49] <zeeshan-lab> rivett??
[22:43:10] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Is what?
[22:43:17] <fenn> is that another tiny current source power supply
[22:43:27] <andypugh> zeeshan-lab: The Rivett lathe in my living room.
[22:43:29] <Tom_itx> PhotoRec
[22:43:40] <fenn> i've used photorec on linux before
[22:43:42] <zeeshan-lab> andypugh: you must not be married
[22:43:45] <zeeshan-lab> to have it in your living room :P
[22:43:48] <andypugh> Tom_itx: It runs on PC, Mac, Linux, just about everything.
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[22:44:16] <andypugh> zeeshan-lab: I will have you know that _both_ girls I know have comented what a pretty lathe it is!
[22:44:41] <fenn> photorec is part of package "testdisk"
[22:45:08] <andypugh> zeeshan-lab: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PN4t25Nb2xIBt0FILfNfJNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
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[22:45:20] <rootB> hello linuxCNC
[22:45:30] <andypugh> Hi
[22:45:32] <Tom_itx> i haven't needed it but now i know who to ask when i do :)
[22:46:05] <Tom_itx> not something i will store in long term memory
[22:47:15] <fenn> zeeshan-lab: the "left" circuit has the resistor in series, so it's a current limiting resistor
[22:47:56] <andypugh> The lathe runs through an SJ200 Hitachi inverter, which is supposedly controllablw with go-faster / go-slower buttons, but I don’t seem to be able to make that mode actually run.
[22:48:33] <andypugh> fenn: But a current-limiting resistor is an odd thing to add to a 4-20mA current-loop
[22:49:37] <andypugh> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_loop
[22:50:52] <fenn> why would you use analog signalling on a touch probe?
[22:51:34] <andypugh> Touch probe?
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[22:52:26] <fenn> guess i misread
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[22:52:58] <fenn> i wish people would say what they are trying to do when asking questions
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[22:54:30] <andypugh> I thought it was quite clear that he was trying to interface a current-loop device to a voltage input.
[22:54:44] <zeeshan-lab> wow that looks nicely done
[22:54:47] <andypugh> But then “4-20mA” has a very specific meaning to me.
[22:54:47] <zeeshan-lab> i was imagining something else
[22:56:00] <andypugh> zeeshan-lab: Did you see the blog post where I planed the dovetail. By hand.
[22:56:19] <zeeshan-lab> yes
[22:56:24] <zeeshan-lab> with that special fixture
[22:56:51] <zeeshan-lab> lol im doing some testing
[22:56:53] <zeeshan-lab> wtf!
[22:57:13] <zeeshan-lab> nm
[22:57:15] <zeeshan-lab> this is correct
[22:57:24] <andypugh> Did you see the post where I cut some dovetails in the drawer sides, by hand :-) http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/rivett-lathe-stand.html
[22:57:33] <zeeshan-lab> for some reason i thought i chose the shunt to output 0-5v
[22:57:35] <zeeshan-lab> but its 0-10v
[22:57:45] <zeeshan-lab> the 3.56v output scared me @ 8~ ma
[22:58:52] <andypugh> There are probably specific devices to convert 4-20mA to 0-10V
[22:59:10] <zeeshan-lab> there is
[22:59:12] <zeeshan-lab> but they are $$$
[22:59:25] <zeeshan-lab> the only benefit i could recall was the fact that they compensate for temperature
[22:59:30] <zeeshan-lab> with their fancy electronics
[22:59:38] <andypugh> Just pretend you used one when you publish the results then.
[22:59:41] <zeeshan-lab> other than that, i couldnt see why you need a 200$ unit vs a 20 cent resistor
[22:59:46] <zeeshan-lab> andypugh: LOL
[23:00:09] <zeeshan-lab> repeatability tests should remove doubt
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[23:00:12] <zeeshan-lab> on experimental method
[23:00:23] <zeeshan-lab> as long as im consistently wrong
[23:00:26] <zeeshan-lab> its okay!
[23:00:34] <zeeshan-lab> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PoDnjb0r11I/UsNYwEp_BkI/AAAAAAAAC4g/Ic_LU7dfkZw/s640/IMG_0894.jpg
[23:00:41] <fenn> zeeshan-lab: what are you measuring?
[23:00:41] <zeeshan-lab> you cut these by hand tools?
[23:00:57] <andypugh> Yes
[23:01:00] <zeeshan-lab> fenn: the pid temperature controller im working with
[23:01:14] <zeeshan-lab> it outputs 4-20mA output which im using a signal conditoner to convert to 0-5v
[23:01:28] <zeeshan-lab> and then it also allows you to remotely set the temperature set point, but needs 4-20mA input
[23:01:35] <zeeshan-lab> shit
[23:01:37] <zeeshan-lab> i got that backwards.
[23:01:55] <zeeshan-lab> 4-20mA output where im using a shunt resistor to grab voltage for my datalogger
[23:02:10] <andypugh> Ah, that left-side drawing will convert a voltage output to a current. Perhaps that is what it was for?
[23:02:32] <zeeshan-lab> no that is a seperate circuit
[23:02:39] <zeeshan-lab> this one is just measuring
[23:02:48] <zeeshan-lab> wow i suck at explaining
[23:02:59] <andypugh> But if you did want to convert voltage output to current loop, the series resistor is the way to go
[23:03:23] <zeeshan-lab> 50 C temp -> 5mA output -> resistor -> measure voltage across resistor -> datalogger analog channel -> now i have temp!
[23:04:03] <zeeshan-lab> datalogger output analog channel (volts) -> signal condtioner -> mA -> pid controller understands what im asking it
[23:04:10] <fenn> "Analog current loops were occasionally carried between buildings by dry pairs in telephone cables leased from the local telephone company. 4–20 mA loops were more common in the days of analog telephony." this probably explains why i haven't heard of it
[23:04:19] <zeeshan-lab> fenn
[23:04:22] <zeeshan-lab> they are all over industry
[23:04:30] <zeeshan-lab> they are superior to voltage channels
[23:04:51] <zeeshan-lab> im not electronics expert but they aren't suspectible to noise
[23:05:00] <zeeshan-lab> like voltage stuff is
[23:05:06] <zeeshan-lab> (don't ask me why :P)
[23:05:30] <zeeshan-lab> you can also scale the voltage to whatever you want
[23:05:43] <zeeshan-lab> by choosing an appropriate resistor, upto a limit
[23:05:52] <zeeshan-lab> which iseems to be around 2000 ohms
[23:06:22] <zeeshan-lab> a lot of pot interfaces for vfd are 0-20mA
[23:06:25] <zeeshan-lab> er 4-20mA
[23:06:39] <zeeshan-lab> you might wonder why not 0-20mA?
[23:06:49] <fenn> no, i'm wondering why not ethernet
[23:07:06] <fenn> but that's a different story
[23:07:11] <zeeshan-lab> because a lot of controllers are programmed so if they detect 0V, 0mA, its a wire break scenario
[23:08:30] <fenn> so i guess you're using a resistor with a large temperature coefficient for your 500 ohm ?
[23:08:53] <zeeshan-lab> im using some random resistor i found
[23:08:54] <zeeshan-lab> =)
[23:08:59] <fenn> i don't see any measurement device in the circuit
[23:09:02] <zeeshan-lab> its sitting in room temp
[23:09:14] <zeeshan-lab> the blue box is the data aquisition system
[23:09:19] <zeeshan-lab> ive been calling it a datalogger
[23:09:24] <fenn> yes but there must be a sensor to be logged
[23:09:44] <zeeshan-lab> http://i.imgur.com/FsKbdjm.jpg
[23:10:01] <fenn> presumably you are measuring the temperature of something... like coffee, or hydraulic fluid, or hydraulic coffee fluid
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[23:10:17] <zeeshan-lab> that thing in the background is an "Environmental" chamber
[23:10:27] <zeeshan-lab> those wires dangling from the right
[23:10:32] <zeeshan-lab> go into the pid temp controller
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[23:14:20] <fenn> so the 500 ohm resistor is to simulate a mile of telephone wire?
[23:16:31] <zeeshan-lab> when the current source is outputting 4mA, the voltage across the resistor is 2V, when its outputting 20mA voltage across is 10V
[23:16:47] <zeeshan-lab> i also know 4mA = -15C
[23:16:53] <zeeshan-lab> and 20mA = 260C
[23:16:55] <zeeshan-lab> so i can calibrate
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[23:34:32] <fenn> so the little white box on the DIN rail is a current source, it passes current through some sensor in the environmental chamber (not shown on diagram) which diverts some of the current to ground, and the remainder passes through your resistor?
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[23:39:42] <fenn> but if it's a current source why does it say "up to 20mA" or "0 to 20mA" instead of just "20mA"
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[23:44:51] <fenn> the more i read the less i understand... http://www.dataforth.com/model.view.aspx?modelid=85
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[23:47:11] <zeeshan-lab> fenn: youre overthinking it :P
[23:47:29] <zeeshan-lab> all that white box does is takes a voltage input
[23:47:48] <zeeshan-lab> anywhere from 0 to 5V and outputs a 4-20mA current
[23:48:25] <zeeshan-lab> so if i hook up a 5V battery to it, itll output 20mA
[23:48:37] <zeeshan-lab> if i hook up a 50V battery to it
[23:48:40] <zeeshan-lab> itll still otuput 20mA
[23:48:58] <zeeshan-lab> if i hook up a -5V source to it, itll output 0mA
[23:49:01] <fenn> but if you have a voltage why not just connect that straight to your data logger?
[23:49:17] <zeeshan-lab> my datalogger is outputting 0-5V
[23:49:30] <zeeshan-lab> i convert it to a current and that is something my pid controller understands
[23:49:36] <zeeshan-lab> you cant hook up the 0-5V signal directly to it
[23:49:56] <zeeshan-lab> my question while i was trying to understand this nonsense was
[23:49:59] <zeeshan-lab> wtf is the point?
[23:50:10] <zeeshan-lab> and this is where i guess the telephone logic comes into place
[23:50:28] <zeeshan-lab> if youre running a 10 mile long run of cable, would you want to carry the data over voltage
[23:50:29] <zeeshan-lab> or current?
[23:50:35] <fenn> so you're trying to convert volts to current?
[23:50:47] <zeeshan-lab> articles online say that voltage is susceptible to noise
[23:50:52] <zeeshan-lab> while current is pretty immune to it
[23:51:01] <zeeshan-lab> fenn: yes
[23:51:25] <fenn> so V = IR and bob's your uncle. why the little white box?
[23:51:47] <andypugh> The left-hand circuit drawing would convert voltage to current… But only if the voltage output is capable of 20mA
[23:52:50] <andypugh> Anyway, it got late again
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[23:53:57] <zeeshan-lab> fenn: im a clueless mech eng
[23:54:08] <zeeshan-lab> who takes black boxes and gets crap done
[23:54:08] <zeeshan-lab> haha
[23:54:30] <zeeshan-lab> i just know i need to convert a voltage to a current so i gotta use a conditioner
[23:54:37] <fenn> so usually people use data loggers to record data, not to output data
[23:54:38] <zeeshan-lab> if i wanted to convert current to voltage, that is easy with a resistor
[23:54:48] <zeeshan-lab> thats true
[23:54:56] <zeeshan-lab> a lot of daq have gpio
[23:54:57] <zeeshan-lab> and analog out
[23:55:35] <zeeshan-lab> i think they have all these features so you can automate tests
[23:55:40] <zeeshan-lab> and grab data at the same time
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