#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-08-03

Back
[00:00:01] <rabbitfoo> furrywolf: Yes, and if you use locks to protect a struct, there is no need to use volatile
[00:00:28] -!- Akex_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
[00:00:29] <furrywolf> rabbitfoo: the lock doesn't let the compiler magically know that the struct will be changed from other threads.
[00:00:58] <PetefromTn_> yeah I have seen those...it all seems like some faraway world for the most part. Everything cool seems to happen someplace else from East Tennessee
[00:00:58] <rabbitfoo> and for data that does not change (i.e. config data), no point in it being volatile
[00:01:01] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: http://www.voanews.com/content/powered-exoskeletons-assistance-walking-lifting/2846703.html
[00:01:18] <furrywolf> what if the config is updated from another thread, such as a GUI?
[00:01:20] <andypugh> rabbitfoo: You might want to take this to linuxcnc-devel
[00:01:59] <furrywolf> you can have multiple user interfaces, python programs, etc, all trying to change things.
[00:02:15] <rabbitfoo> andypugh: I think you *might* be right.
[00:02:18] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how far are you from Oak Ridge?
[00:02:32] <PetefromTn_> about a half hour
[00:02:41] <furrywolf> now, it could well be you're right - I've never examined the linuxcnc source, and you haven't specified what part of it you're looking at - but so far I haven't seen you say anything that would make me think they were using it wrong, much less being ignorant of its purpose....
[00:02:57] <andypugh> rabbitfoo: Do you have any specific examples?
[00:03:06] -!- Nick001-shop has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 34.0.5/20141126041045]]
[00:03:33] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: I wonder what would happen if you talked to the hospitals in your area about prosthetics
[00:03:46] <furrywolf> also, if over-use of volatile is the worst thing you can find wrong with the code, stop complaining and make your mill work. :P
[00:03:58] -!- gonzo_nb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:05:12] <rabbitfoo> furrywolf: Quickest example - pid.c
[00:05:41] <andypugh> I will point out that jopining an IRC channel, and stating “your code sucks” without providing specific examples is not the ideal way to make friends and influence people.
[00:05:59] * furrywolf doesn't have the linuxcnc code handy, and doesn't much care, since it works...
[00:06:04] <andypugh> (yes, and I know _I_ can’t type)
[00:06:09] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: http://www.openhandproject.org/ http://time.com/3897375/google-amputees-prosthetics/
[00:06:10] <PetefromTn_> the biggest deal with that is they are gonna want all sorts of insurance and liability concerns in place that I do not have
[00:06:44] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ you try any more anodizing?
[00:06:48] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Not necessarily. It might be that they inspect and take responsibility.
[00:07:19] <PetefromTn_> it seems like they are also all about 3d printing of which I know nothing...
[00:07:24] <andypugh> A friend of my dad’s used to do a ton of work for DePuy and he viewed it as vast amounts of money for old rope.
[00:07:37] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx No man I have been out of town all weekend and busy most of the week
[00:08:11] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: at least you'll meet the local people and start to get into the "loop". I'm starting to see DIY prosthetics. Maybe you can perform machine work for people working on them
[00:08:21] <andypugh> For example, they would buy stainless steel Mole (Vise) Grips, weld on special ends for holding hip implants, shot-blast them and sell them for £1000
[00:08:48] <rabbitfoo> andypugh: Did you try: ./configure --disable-python --without-python ?
[00:08:55] <andypugh> No
[00:09:04] <PetefromTn_> ya know honestly taking a ride up to Oak Ridge with some pictures and my hat in my hand might not be a completely ridiculous idea
[00:09:06] <rabbitfoo> Will you ?
[00:09:56] <furrywolf> If you want to help make linuxcnc better, start writing patches. make sure your patches are actually improvements.
[00:10:11] <andypugh> Partly I blithley re-formatted my HDD knowing I had a good backup on Friday and then found the backup wasn’t good. So I am rebuilding from zero.
[00:10:44] <furrywolf> neither andy nor I are developers, and so far you haven't complained about anything that sounds like an actual problem.
[00:10:59] <andypugh> Actually, I am a developer.
[00:11:03] <furrywolf> shhh! :P
[00:11:29] <andypugh> But I have only done anything at all in the Realtime kernel layer.
[00:11:39] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: a machined higher quality version or parts for this
[00:12:10] <CaptHindsight> anyone can print of some glue gun files but it takes some skill to machine some stronger more versatile parts
[00:12:58] <CaptHindsight> The company recently received a $200,000 grant from Google, ^^^
[00:12:59] <PetefromTn_> yeah I agree that is the hope anyways... have yet to find an IN for that sort of thing but to be honest other than visiting local companies I have not ventured out too far
[00:13:18] <andypugh> But I will point out that the realtime layer code often will look strange, as any code there has to assume that it might get interrupted and have its shared values altered at any time.
[00:13:45] <malcom2073> Weird... I got a youtube private message form some random dude, linking me to psha.org's log of #linuxcnc, saying (in polish) that anything I say is recorded.
[00:14:06] <XXCoder> ohhhhh threat!
[00:14:12] <andypugh> It’s a random polite warning? How odd
[00:14:13] <CaptHindsight> ah the PSA
[00:14:24] <CaptHindsight> Polish Security Agency
[00:14:45] <malcom2073> It was from some guy who is into Rap & Hip Hop according to his youtube profile
[00:15:02] <furrywolf> maybe I'm missing something here, but I just checked pid.c, and a search for volatile find exactly nothing?
[00:15:28] <rabbitfoo> andypugh: I have done work in realtime
[00:16:20] <rabbitfoo> furrywolf: dig deeper in to hal_float_t - You will find it typedef'd as volatile in hal.h
[00:17:01] <rabbitfoo> One of the dangers of hiding behind *random* typedefs
[00:17:32] <furrywolf> that makes sense. hal variables may be modified by anything, all over the place, asynchronously.
[00:17:52] <furrywolf> two different realtime timer threads, hardware drivers, motional control, gui,...
[00:19:12] <rabbitfoo> but none should *need* to alter config data - Only at startup does config data need setting
[00:19:29] -!- choonway has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:20:10] <furrywolf> actually, if there is a bug in there, it's that someone used a couple doubles without declaring them volatile. :P
[00:20:54] <Tom_itx> i don't consider those bugs, rather code style
[00:20:59] <furrywolf> although those are probably things only being used by one thread
[00:21:42] <furrywolf> rabbitfoo: those things can be changed at run-time or dynamically. that's not static config info.
[00:22:01] <furrywolf> and even if some of it were, over-declaring volatile isn't going to cause a problem.
[00:22:32] <andypugh> hal_float_t are generally HAL pins in shared memory. I can’t think of a better example of a volatile
[00:23:15] <furrywolf> andypugh: that's my thought too! heh
[00:23:37] <furrywolf> he's complaining about the paramters for a pid loop, but those can be changed while running from any thread...
[00:25:52] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: if I had a nickle for every oddball I've come across on IRC....
[00:25:57] <rabbitfoo> and there you have (one) problem - Config parameters should not be changing at random times from other threads
[00:26:00] <malcom2073> Heh, you'd be rich eh?
[00:26:50] <furrywolf> rabbitfoo: at this point I'm beginning to think you have some fundamental misunderstandings yourself...
[00:27:14] <furrywolf> what if you wanted to write a program that dynamically tuned the pid loop, say? or a GUI that did it?
[00:27:15] <andypugh> rabbitfoo: Why not? It seems perfectly reasonable to change a PID gain on a live system when tuning the servos. And you need to be sure that that has no unintended effects.
[00:27:48] <rabbitfoo> andypugh: If you are interested in improving the code, perhaps a discussion over a beer would be more productive
[00:28:05] <rabbitfoo> Basildon is only an hour or so down the A12
[00:28:08] <andypugh> In fact, is is _expected_ that you will change the gains when tuning PID. And you might well want to dynamically alter the gains from external components too.
[00:28:48] -!- MacGalempsy [MacGalempsy!~quassel@ip72-204-45-74.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:29:31] <andypugh> rabbitfoo: I am all for improving the code, but PID parameters are very much likely to change at run-time
[00:29:44] <furrywolf> from multiple threads.
[00:30:03] <rabbitfoo> PID is one example.
[00:30:26] <furrywolf> yes, it's an example of where it's used correctly, and an example of where you're incorrectly labeling it as a problem.
[00:30:38] <rabbitfoo> Yes, parameters *may& change during run time, but not every time the loop is run
[00:31:09] <andypugh> Generally from userspace, but the lincurve comp was written with the idea of tweaking gains from the servo thread to make the gains error / position / whatever dependent.
[00:32:14] <andypugh> Most of the PID “things” that are expected to change are now pins, rather than parameters. You can’t actually change HAL “parameters” from anywhere but userspace
[00:32:15] <furrywolf> yay, one of the local forest fires grew another 20,000 acres in 5 hours today.
[00:32:53] <furrywolf> (that's 81km2 for you metric types, or 8100 hectares)
[00:33:52] <andypugh> That’s an area almost 45 x 45 furlongs!
[00:36:01] <andypugh> rabbitfoo: So, are you saying that “volatile” is only sensible for things that _do_ change every invocation, not things that _might_ change every time?
[00:37:30] <rabbitfoo> volatile has its uses for data that *can* change at any time, but should not be used for stuff that is unlikely to change
[00:38:20] <andypugh> Don’t mistake me for a real programmer. I have written a fair few components for LinuxCNC but I taught myself C from scratch specifically to write the 3-phase PWM Hostmot2 driver because I had some motors I wanted to run.
[00:38:37] <XXCoder> andypugh: youre real enough
[00:38:48] <CaptHindsight> rabbitfoo: is there some extra overhead involved if you do use it that way?
[00:39:24] <andypugh> But: Any HAL pin is expected to change, so hal_float_t should be volatile.
[00:39:57] <Tom_itx> what issues besides volatile do you see?
[00:40:07] <andypugh> Some values in some code might be defined as hal_float_t despite not being pins.
[00:40:43] <furrywolf> no, we should separate hal pins into those that change often and those that do not, and instead of using volatile and actual memory locations, they should be stored in some fancy hash table and a notification-of-changed-pins ipc system set up. :)
[00:41:25] <andypugh> But then we have already doubled the width of hal_float_t once, so it might make sense to use that for all floats in HAL code that operate on pin values in case the width changes again.
[00:42:08] <rabbitfoo> volatile stops the compiler from making certain optimisations and slows execution down
[00:42:26] <furrywolf> yes. we know that. I even told you that.
[00:42:40] <andypugh> How important is that in this context?
[00:43:28] <rabbitfoo> yes you did. So why does cofiguration data that does not change have to be volatile ?
[00:43:46] <andypugh> What is the tyopical servo thread execution time, and how much shorter would it be without the spurious volatiles?
[00:44:46] -!- Baliano has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[00:45:07] * furrywolf introduces rabbitfoo to the concept of premature optimization
[00:45:19] <andypugh> rabbitfoo: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=src;h=6765dccb0d9a714c9490a20172cf82586c4da389;hb=HEAD is a good starting point for posting links to specific examples.
[00:45:22] -!- toastydeath [toastydeath!~toast@pool-71-255-255-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:47:04] <andypugh> If you can persuade folk that something is wrong, then it will get changed. But the mind-set here is very much “this moves big lumps of metal, we need to be sure that changes are worth the risk”
[00:48:49] <andypugh> I love this link. Some people are moving _very_ big lumps of metal. https://youtu.be/mxxdq6y8z8M?t=45s
[00:49:21] <Tom_itx> yep, that is a classic one
[00:50:06] -!- Loetmichel [Loetmichel!~cylly@p54B10191.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:51:18] -!- ThisSucks has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[00:51:45] <Tom_itx> i wonder what sort of feeds he gets from it when it's acutally cutting parts
[00:51:46] -!- Loetmichel2 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[00:52:35] <furrywolf> lol @ manumatic tool change. :)
[00:53:15] <rabbitfoo> I really hope that guy does not change tooling like that when the machine is running for real.
[00:53:18] <andypugh> One thing I noticed at MPM is that the feeds they use on their actual aerospace production machines at a lot lower than you see on Youtube demo videos.
[00:54:27] <furrywolf> rabbitfoo: not making random changes to the code improves his safety. :P
[00:55:34] <rabbitfoo> No. Staying out of the workspace when the machine is active improves his chance of staying alive.
[00:55:55] <rabbitfoo> Code has nothing to do with bad working practices.
[00:56:04] <PetefromTn_> seen that before and it never ceases to amaze me what a monster that machine is
[00:56:11] -!- tjtr33 [tjtr33!~tjtr33@d47-69-66-82.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:56:48] <andypugh> It’s a manual toolchange, the machine is paused and waiting. (also, that machine is not going to take you ny surprise with a rapid)
[00:57:38] <furrywolf> I'm surprised how slow it is, actually.
[00:57:39] <tjtr33> that vid has Nick's 'Features' for Linuxcnc in the youtube suggested list. anyone here get that to run?
[00:57:50] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, even better up close and personal..
[00:58:07] <Tom_itx> that shop is only a couple miles from me
[00:59:25] <PetefromTn_> no doubt
[00:59:58] <Tom_itx> i was equally impressed with his edm setup
[01:00:01] <andypugh> He has more than one of them. He might have all of them
[01:00:04] <tjtr33> they do all that 5 axis CAM in APT :)
[01:00:19] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, i didnt see EDM there.
[01:00:32] <Tom_itx> Stuart showed me the whole place
[01:00:45] <tjtr33> yep, me too
[01:00:59] <zeeshan|2> has anyone seen 1/16" thick veneer at home depot
[01:01:14] <tjtr33> but im like only interested in edm and dont recall any there
[01:01:19] <furrywolf> that doesn't sound like a home depot item.
[01:01:41] <furrywolf> home depot sells only mass-produced stuff aimed for the most buyers
[01:01:46] <Tom_itx> tjtr33, last i knew they were looking at this for their multi axis code: http://www.nccs.com/products/ncl.html
[01:01:55] <furrywolf> while veneer, of any variety, is only for a few fine woodworkers.
[01:02:13] <Tom_itx> tjtr33, it was in a separate climate controlled room
[01:02:32] <PetefromTn_> watching Wing Commander on netflix trying to decide if this is a great movie or a shitty movie...
[01:03:02] <Tom_itx> saw the new Mission impossible yesterday
[01:03:14] <PetefromTn_> sucked?
[01:03:21] <Tom_itx> in line with the others
[01:03:26] <zeeshan|2> i need something .0625" thick
[01:03:27] <zeeshan|2> for dividers
[01:03:28] <Tom_itx> it was good intertainment
[01:03:31] <tjtr33> hmm yeah we talked about NCL, and i didnt see the room ( sounds like wedm and thats no fun, frkn sewing machines, notr real edm ;)
[01:03:38] <zeeshan|2> easy to cut with scissors and gluye
[01:03:40] <PetefromTn_> so something between sucking and decent entertainment I guess LOL
[01:03:54] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/aor0DAL.jpg
[01:04:06] <zeeshan|2> to fit in my drawers to divide it into sections so i can put my bolts in
[01:04:38] <furrywolf> find someone with a plasma table and make shiny dividers
[01:04:54] <zeeshan|2> you didnt meet one of my requirements :P
[01:05:05] <andypugh> Veneer seems an odd choice. Why not Mica?
[01:05:21] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: it doesnt matter what it is
[01:05:25] <zeeshan|2> as long as its 0.070 thick
[01:05:27] <furrywolf> polycarbonate
[01:05:28] <zeeshan|2> er 0.0625
[01:05:38] <zeeshan|2> cheap and easy to work with
[01:05:44] <andypugh> Stainless steel?
[01:05:47] <zeeshan|2> haha
[01:05:51] <zeeshan|2> dont troll
[01:05:56] <PetefromTn_> damn imperial dimensions...
[01:06:09] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: yea!
[01:06:31] <furrywolf> cheese.
[01:06:37] <andypugh> I find the cheapest way to buy stainless is cut to exact shape by my local laser cutting emporium.
[01:06:51] <furrywolf> it fits all your requirements, and you can cut it in .0625" slices. :P
[01:06:53] <malcom2073> Woo did some machining today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDQRqxN0WvE
[01:07:10] <malcom2073> Very boring low quality video
[01:07:12] <malcom2073> need to work on that
[01:07:21] <XXCoder> 0.0625 ly
[01:07:40] <andypugh> malcom2073: I assume the anticlockwise rotation is a vide oarrtefact?
[01:07:49] <andypugh> (video artefact(
[01:08:06] <PetefromTn_> what is all that smoke? LOL
[01:08:09] <malcom2073> andypugh: Negative, is that abnormal? All my dads endmills are that direction
[01:08:13] <malcom2073> Haha PetefromTn_: The wrong kind of oil
[01:08:24] <malcom2073> Wait! No
[01:08:26] <XXCoder> ccw thats weird
[01:08:27] <malcom2073> It is an artifact
[01:08:40] <malcom2073> Sorry, had a moment. Yeah it spins clockwise
[01:08:43] <XXCoder> so it is really going cw?
[01:08:46] <malcom2073> yeah
[01:08:47] <XXCoder> ok
[01:09:06] <malcom2073> Look at the chip buildup
[01:09:09] <furrywolf> I saw a video of a horizontal mill that spun ccw the other day. didn't expect that.
[01:09:23] * furrywolf has never used a horizontal mill, so didn't know what to expect
[01:09:25] <XXCoder> yeah why would anyone do ccw on em?
[01:09:29] <andypugh> I wonder where they get tooling?
[01:09:43] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: speciality applications :D
[01:09:51] <XXCoder> interesting
[01:09:56] <tjtr33> from australia? spins other way?
[01:09:57] <furrywolf> they were using slitting saws, and just put them on the right direction.
[01:10:03] <andypugh> You can get left-hand drillls as some gang-drilling machines alternate directions.
[01:10:15] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: the one time ive seen it used is at school
[01:10:24] <zeeshan|2> they were machining a thin sheet
[01:10:57] <andypugh> (Left-hand drills excell at drilling out broken bolts, it’s nice that they exist)
[01:11:00] <furrywolf> I have left-hand drills for removing broken bolts
[01:11:14] <andypugh> I win :-)
[01:11:43] <malcom2073> heh
[01:11:44] <furrywolf> ?
[01:12:13] <XXCoder> there's special taps for removing sheared bolts and stuff
[01:12:34] <tjtr33> easy-outs?
[01:12:40] <XXCoder> think so
[01:12:44] <Tom_itx> i keep a set of easy outs on hand
[01:12:51] <zeeshan|2> f ez outs
[01:12:53] <tjtr33> not a tap
[01:12:55] <andypugh> XXCoder: And it is worth knowing that a carbide end-mill _can_ mill through an EZ-out.
[01:12:58] -!- cradek has quit [Changing host]
[01:12:58] -!- cradek [cradek!~chris@emc/board-of-directors/cradek] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:12:58] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+v cradek] by ChanServ
[01:13:12] <furrywolf> yes, but when drilling the holes for easyouts, it's sometimes better to use a left-hand bit, so if it's loose, you don't screw it in even further.
[01:13:13] <XXCoder> andypugh: nice
[01:13:23] <zeeshan|2> F those spiral easy outs
[01:13:27] <zeeshan|2> they snap too easy
[01:13:40] <andypugh> I keep a set oe EZ-outs buried in the back garden under a pile of manure so I am never even tempted to use them.
[01:13:43] <Tom_itx> you're just too hard on them
[01:13:48] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: haha
[01:13:51] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: nope
[01:14:16] <Tom_itx> i seldom use them really
[01:14:29] <tjtr33> i imagine a guy breaking a tap the getting it out then snapping the stuf, then breaking an ez-out, then becoming a shepard
[01:14:36] <furrywolf> I've used mine twice recently.
[01:14:38] -!- rabbitfoo has quit [Quit: rabbitfoo]
[01:15:06] <zeeshan|2> http://cdn.mscdirect.com/global/images/ProductImages/8496886-23.jpg
[01:15:08] <zeeshan|2> best
[01:15:10] <zeeshan|2> win
[01:15:12] <furrywolf> a neighbor brought over a lawnmower with a broken-off spark plug. didn't need to drill that one, since I was able to use the hole already present from the ceramic and center conductor.
[01:15:27] <furrywolf> and I had a head bolt snap off in one of my honda generators. drilled and easy-outed that one.
[01:16:06] <Tom_itx> hope you fished out the rest of the plug...
[01:16:37] <tjtr33> the straights dont nudge the thread out till turned, the screw ones nudge with every tap of the hammer
[01:16:43] <andypugh> I think that EZ-out is a black-ops arm of an EDM company
[01:16:51] <tjtr33> heh
[01:16:53] <furrywolf> didn't need to. the remaining ceramic/etc pulled out in one piece.
[01:17:21] <furrywolf> lol
[01:17:21] <Tom_itx> andypugh, i honestly think you don't like them because they have 'easy' in the name :D
[01:17:32] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: they also snap a lot easier than the square :P
[01:18:13] <andypugh> I don’t like them because they don’t work
[01:18:18] <tjtr33> never broke one, tho i do have edm in basement
[01:18:56] <furrywolf> they work great.
[01:19:04] <furrywolf> I've used them many times.
[01:19:19] <zeeshan|2> they pretty much work for stuff that is free already
[01:19:20] <zeeshan|2> :P
[01:19:21] <Tom_itx> i agree they don't work in all cases
[01:19:30] <Tom_itx> but they are handy to have
[01:19:40] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: I've used them on stuff that was most definitely not free.
[01:19:54] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: you must be superman
[01:20:07] <Tom_itx> superwoman
[01:20:13] <zeeshan|2> superwolf
[01:20:17] <andypugh> So, this bolt just sheared because it is siezed in the hole. What I need to do is drill a hole then insert something much smaller than the original bolt that will expand the top of the bolt, and is of such adamantine hardness that I will need something very special to remove it when it breaks, because it is som much smaller than the bolt.
[01:20:45] <Tom_itx> i agree they don't work in all cases
[01:20:48] <Tom_itx> but they are handy to have
[01:20:49] <tjtr33> gas wrench!
[01:20:56] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: now i know youre a mech eng
[01:20:59] <zeeshan|2> logic match
[01:21:00] <furrywolf> andypugh: that's why they're much harder metal. :P
[01:21:17] <andypugh> Harder != stronger
[01:21:54] <andypugh> (though I admit a strong correlation)
[01:21:59] <furrywolf> as I said, I've used them twice in the last couple months, successfully. I've probably used them several dozen times over my life.
[01:21:59] <furrywolf> what else would I have done with, say, the broken off head bolt?
[01:22:11] <zeeshan|2> easy
[01:22:13] <zeeshan|2> weld a new head
[01:22:15] <malcom2073> Just replace the block
[01:22:16] <malcom2073> Oh
[01:22:22] <malcom2073> wait, not a chevy small block, they're not cheap as dirt :P
[01:22:39] <malcom2073> I broke off a bolt in my intake manifold before. I went and got another one for $10 and replaced it
[01:22:43] <furrywolf> no, a honda inverter generator block. heh.
[01:23:31] <zeeshan|2> _in_?
[01:23:56] <malcom2073> zeeshan|2: thermostat housing bolt, screws into the aluminum intake
[01:24:01] <tjtr33> alum block & steel bolt? galling?
[01:24:10] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: probably a bolt mounting the throttle body or something to the intake, not the intake to the head
[01:24:19] <malcom2073> yeah
[01:24:23] <zeeshan|2> easy fix
[01:24:53] <andypugh> If you look at the equation for shear strength of a shaft it goes as the 4th power of diameter. So, if the EZ-out is half the diameter of the bolt that broke it needs to be 16x as strong to be even the same strength in torstion.
[01:24:54] <furrywolf> I need to change the exhaust manifold on my truck. that's going to be fun.
[01:24:56] <malcom2073> Yeah, take it off the car, buy a set of easy outs, use them.
[01:25:16] <furrywolf> it's studs+nuts. the nuts are now round instead of hexagonal, 47 years later...
[01:25:26] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: talking about J|?
[01:25:27] <zeeshan|2> J?
[01:25:31] <tjtr33> buy ones made of M series (shock )
[01:25:36] <zeeshan|2> tr / j
[01:25:49] <zeeshan|2> polar moment of inertia
[01:25:55] <furrywolf> andypugh: you're making the assumption the broken bolt requires the same force to remove. this is not always the case.
[01:26:11] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: dam,n right is the case!
[01:26:25] <XXCoder> yeah I remember one time bolt broke head off when I was tighting part on fixture
[01:26:30] <XXCoder> it was really easy to remove
[01:26:36] <furrywolf> andypugh: if the bolt was holding two things together, it was also subject to tensional forces, making it easier to break, and frictional forces, making it harder to turn.
[01:26:37] <andypugh> Sorry, it’s actualy ^3 for total torque, ^4 is the deflection etc
[01:26:38] <furrywolf> the bolt may also break partway down in the threads
[01:26:50] <furrywolf> yeah, I was thinking ^3. heh.
[01:26:50] <zeeshan|2> yes cause of the r on top
[01:27:06] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: you know how to work with tau = tr / j?
[01:27:27] <furrywolf> and, if it's broken due to over-torquing when tightening, rather than galling or rust, it might be ready to spin right out, if only you had a way to turn it...
[01:27:28] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: no
[01:27:34] <zeeshan|2> how do you know its ^3?
[01:27:41] * furrywolf is a redneck, not a mechanical engineer
[01:28:16] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: rough guesstimate... torque increases with radius, and amount of metal increases with square of radius, so you end up with three radiuses...
[01:28:52] <andypugh> furrywolf: Yes, exactly. I was having too much fun. :-) If you break it on assembly then an EZ-out will work. If you break the head off because the thread is seized, then a smaller harder thing is going to break too.
[01:29:22] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: so in conclusion ez outs are for noobs is what you're saying?
[01:29:31] <zeeshan|2> because you gotta be a noob to break it on assembly
[01:29:32] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[01:29:43] <andypugh> Seems fair
[01:29:45] <furrywolf> andypugh: also, when things are broken due to mechanical overload of the assembley. impact, crashed, whatever... you end up with a broken bolt just waiting to come out but no way to turn it.
[01:29:53] <tjtr33> if seized, i've only big bored it and insert threaded ( and it was PITA)
[01:30:03] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: see what I just said with andypugh: in front of it. :P
[01:30:07] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: why
[01:30:09] <zeeshan|2> you have an edm
[01:30:11] <zeeshan|2> burn that shit out
[01:30:21] <tjtr33> not portabvl;e to under car ;(
[01:30:43] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: want to remove a 47-year-old exhaust manifold for me? :P
[01:30:55] <tjtr33> ( mountain & mohammed problem )
[01:30:58] <furrywolf> I might just not even bother trying to unscrew the nuts and just go for the gas axe first and cut them off.
[01:31:19] <malcom2073> furrywolf: Pull the engine, stick it on the mill
[01:31:19] <malcom2073> :P
[01:31:30] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: im an expert at exhaust studs
[01:31:31] <XXCoder> if bolt is large enough.. weld a shaft to it
[01:31:32] <zeeshan|2> !
[01:31:39] <XXCoder> then reverse it out lol
[01:31:54] <furrywolf> XXCoder: it's studs with nuts
[01:32:05] <furrywolf> the nuts are mostly round, and the threads on the visible portion of the stud no longer exhaust
[01:32:06] <furrywolf> exist
[01:32:09] <XXCoder> yes, you do want studs with nuts.,
[01:32:13] <XXCoder> bad joke
[01:32:14] -!- HoppingMadMan has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[01:32:33] <zeeshan|2> what works for me is: mapp gas the area around the stud, double nut it and try to pull it out. that works 95% of the time
[01:32:54] <zeeshan|2> if it fails ,didnt heat it up enough
[01:33:01] <furrywolf> I hope to just remove the nuts from the studs and re-use the studs. :P
[01:33:03] <zeeshan|2> weld a nut to it , the weld head helps break it
[01:33:11] -!- HoppingMadMan [HoppingMadMan!~HoppingMa@189.179.235.90] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:33:12] <zeeshan|2> forget about that
[01:33:15] <zeeshan|2> youre asking for trouble :P
[01:33:16] <tjtr33> IF you got thread exposed
[01:33:19] <XXCoder> I remember one tip about using cold and hot to loosen it so it can be removed
[01:33:20] <XXCoder> but dunno
[01:33:24] <furrywolf> torch off the nuts...
[01:33:30] <furrywolf> run a tap down the stud...
[01:33:34] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: the goal is to not break em :P
[01:33:59] <zeeshan|2> they will only break if you try to pull em without any heat
[01:34:02] <tjtr33> eh we started with the stud busted off
[01:34:09] <furrywolf> I don't want to pull them!
[01:34:14] <furrywolf> why do you keep talking about pulling them? :P
[01:34:27] <zeeshan|2> cause if its an old engine
[01:34:29] <zeeshan|2> you wanna replace em
[01:34:42] <furrywolf> no, I wanna do as little work as possible.
[01:34:50] <zeeshan|2> then deal with snapping it
[01:34:50] <XXCoder> buy new one
[01:34:52] <malcom2073> Cause pulling engines is easy
[01:34:53] <zeeshan|2> which will be more work
[01:34:59] <XXCoder> least work, most money
[01:35:08] <malcom2073> Pull studs moreso
[01:35:09] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: rofl
[01:35:18] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: no, reusing the studs is less work.
[01:35:21] <andypugh> I am glad I am not a teacher. I was called in to the student garage today because their prop-shaft input knuckle broke, and they couldn’t figure out how to get the worm shaft out.
[01:35:23] <zeeshan|2> no its not
[01:35:28] <zeeshan|2> theyve been heat cycled enough
[01:35:28] <andypugh> (Does this work? ) https://plus.google.com/108164504656404380542/posts/eFS3PTc3Jh4?pid=6178592097373486242&oid=108164504656404380542
[01:35:32] <zeeshan|2> that when you go tigthen them again
[01:35:35] <zeeshan|2> there is a high chance of failure.
[01:36:04] <PetefromTn_> meh that movie was okay I guess
[01:36:24] <zeeshan|2> nice carnag
[01:36:26] <zeeshan|2> e
[01:36:32] <tjtr33> yow "harder harder hit it again" jeez
[01:37:08] <andypugh> So, I decided we needed a puller, and set out to make one, but decided to let a student do some of the work. It took him 90 minutes to drill 3 x 47/64” holes in a bit of bar. To be fair he had never used a pillar drll before…
[01:37:45] <zeeshan|2> did the drill bit survive
[01:38:07] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: I do not think there is much chance of them coming out in one piece.
[01:38:16] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: ive removed
[01:38:19] <furrywolf> and I do not want to end up drilling and helicoiling.
[01:38:19] <zeeshan|2> at least a 1000 studs
[01:38:23] <zeeshan|2> in my career!
[01:38:31] <zeeshan|2> that 95% came from that
[01:38:31] <furrywolf> from 47 year old RUSTY engines? :P
[01:38:33] <zeeshan|2> yes
[01:38:35] <zeeshan|2> RUJSTY as shit engines
[01:38:43] <zeeshan|2> where the stud looks like a pile of powder
[01:38:55] <zeeshan|2> the hardest ones for me were
[01:38:59] <Tom_itx> we used to helicoil VW engine blocks on a regular basis
[01:39:04] <zeeshan|2> when someone decided to use stainless studs for their exhaust studs
[01:39:09] <zeeshan|2> and they were galled in
[01:39:12] <tjtr33> yay helicoil
[01:39:15] <zeeshan|2> stainless will almost always gall upon tightning
[01:39:15] <XXCoder> galled?
[01:39:23] <Tom_itx> the studs would pull on the early ones
[01:39:27] <XXCoder> googling
[01:39:29] <zeeshan|2> that was the only time ive had to drill it out and helicoil
[01:39:38] <zeeshan|2> stainless is the worst thing to use on exhaust stuff
[01:39:39] <zeeshan|2> don't do it
[01:39:40] <zeeshan|2> !
[01:39:46] <zeeshan|2> *fasteners
[01:39:52] <zeeshan|2> turbo cars this is
[01:39:56] <XXCoder> ah losing metal to each other
[01:39:56] <furrywolf> isn't your exhaust stainless? :P
[01:40:01] <zeeshan|2> it is
[01:40:05] <zeeshan|2> but all the flanges are mild steel
[01:40:08] <zeeshan|2> and studs are mild steel also
[01:40:13] <zeeshan|2> well steel, mnot mild
[01:40:19] <zeeshan|2> the nuts are copper
[01:40:22] <zeeshan|2> i dont f around
[01:40:40] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: is there any part of a vw that's NOT made deficient? :P
[01:40:52] <andypugh> Ford OEM exhaust nuts seem to be copper with a pre-intalled helicoil.
[01:40:57] <Tom_itx> they were made for the masses
[01:41:05] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: not on the ford 150
[01:41:07] <zeeshan|2> !@!!
[01:41:12] <zeeshan|2> f150
[01:41:23] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: it's so common to break exhaust studs on them
[01:41:34] <furrywolf> andypugh: time to machine a new one of those. doesn't look TOO hard. turn it on a lathe, then machine the rounded square sides?
[01:41:36] <zeeshan|2> that its the most common exhaust studs youll find in those "help!' kids
[01:41:48] <tjtr33> andypugh, what happened with the puller? did they pull the worm thru that bush sideways?
[01:43:11] <andypugh> furrywolf: We have spares of that. When the key broke out we lost drive and messed up the retaining nut and the thread therof. We needed the worm shaft out to re-cut the thread and clean up the taper.
[01:43:38] <andypugh> The puller was needed to get the shaft out of the differential.
[01:44:24] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: what is that part for?
[01:44:39] <andypugh> It’s the input UJ for the differential
[01:45:02] <zeeshan|2> hm
[01:45:05] <zeeshan|2> where is the yoke?
[01:45:13] <andypugh> Bronze slippers fit on the long sides, then the whole thing fits in a square box.
[01:45:18] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: it doesn't work like you think it does. :)
[01:45:38] <tjtr33> nor i
[01:45:43] <zeeshan|2> show me a pic of the whole thing plz
[01:45:48] <zeeshan|2> what is this ancient monsterosity
[01:46:08] <furrywolf> it's 100 years old, that's not THAT ancient... :P
[01:46:14] <tjtr33> something before the UJs we know :)
[01:46:16] -!- ThisSucks [ThisSucks!~goat@c-24-60-237-114.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:46:24] <zeeshan|2> if it doesnt look a yoke
[01:46:29] <zeeshan|2> its ancient :P
[01:46:38] <andypugh> The strange thing is that there is a Hooke’s joint on the output from the gearbox. It wasn’t like it was waiting to be invebted
[01:46:45] <furrywolf> lol
[01:46:58] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[01:47:03] <furrywolf> it's not an actual universal joint. it's just stuffed inside another square with some brass wear material.
[01:47:17] <zeeshan|2> pics of overall assembly!!!!!!!!!1
[01:47:18] <furrywolf> andypugh: you ever machine a rzeppa joint? I was thinking of making one.
[01:47:33] <andypugh> furrywolf: A what>
[01:47:34] <andypugh> ?
[01:47:42] <andypugh> Linky?
[01:47:56] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: cv joint
[01:48:03] <zeeshan|2> you guys need to stop using these fancy names
[01:48:08] <zeeshan|2> firest the hookes joint
[01:48:12] <zeeshan|2> now RZEPPA
[01:48:17] <furrywolf> andypugh: ball-type CV joint. the ones on the outside on FWD cars, with a cup, six balls, etc.
[01:48:44] <zeeshan|2> i posted pics of an exploded axle
[01:49:10] -!- Tecan [Tecan!~fasdf@ip-216-234-182-80.wireless.tera-byte.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:49:10] -!- Tecan has quit [Changing host]
[01:49:10] -!- Tecan [Tecan!~fasdf@unaffiliated/unit41] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:49:29] <zeeshan|2> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/axles_owned2.jpg
[01:49:37] <zeeshan|2> not a 6 ball version
[01:49:41] <zeeshan|2> but you get the point :P
[01:50:15] <furrywolf> that's a tripod joint, not a rzeppa joint.
[01:50:22] <zeeshan|2> same idea :P
[01:50:37] <furrywolf> usually you have a tripod joint inboard and an rzeppa joint outboard.
[01:50:45] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: https://union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/rcsmotor/mechanics/dennis-n-type-manual/100-mile-maintenance/
[01:50:58] <Tom_itx> http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sisyphus_/media/rzeppa.jpg.html
[01:51:02] <furrywolf> rzeppa joints allow for higher angles, but don't telescope. tripod joints only work on shallow angles, but do telescope.
[01:51:36] <furrywolf> and, no, not same idea - they work very differently. :P
[01:51:49] <zeeshan|2> both are cv joints
[01:51:50] <zeeshan|2> so i win
[01:51:50] <zeeshan|2> !
[01:51:55] * zeeshan|2 is pulling a renesis tonight
[01:52:03] <zeeshan|2> relay and contactors same thing ok?
[01:52:03] <Tom_itx> lemme guess.... subaru uses em
[01:52:16] <zeeshan|2> rzeppa tripod joint same thing ok?
[01:52:48] <zeeshan|2> wow this thing needs maintenance every 100 miles
[01:52:48] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: virtually all front-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive cars use them.
[01:52:49] <zeeshan|2> nice
[01:52:54] <furrywolf> of every US and import make.
[01:52:55] <andypugh> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_H._Rzeppa
[01:53:12] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: https://union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/rcsmotor/wp-content/uploads/rear_box.jpg is the relevant picture
[01:53:24] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf:
[01:53:27] <zeeshan|2> im looking at it
[01:53:30] <zeeshan|2> but have no idea whats ging on
[01:53:38] <zeeshan|2> and why there is a bullet sticking out of it
[01:53:58] <zeeshan|2> im happy to see castle nuts on this ancient thing
[01:53:59] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: read the page. :P
[01:54:16] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: Unwind, fill with grease and screw back in the rear box joint greaser (repeat 4 times). Be careful not to cross thread the greaser.
[01:54:18] <zeeshan|2> didnt help!
[01:54:47] <furrywolf> andypugh: that animation is oversimplified. usually the grooves are actually at V in pairs to help with making the ball cage track properly
[01:55:29] <furrywolf> I don't remember the details. was about a year ago I was looking up how to make one. :)
[01:55:34] <zeeshan|2> tripod joint looks stronger
[01:55:42] <zeeshan|2> with thsi multiple ball joint
[01:56:02] <zeeshan|2> though looks can be decieving
[01:56:14] <furrywolf> tripod joints are weaker, work on smaller angles, and aren't quite constant velocity. :P
[01:56:31] <zeeshan|2> well unless youre going off roading
[01:56:35] <zeeshan|2> i dojnt see the benefit of larger angles?
[01:56:44] <furrywolf> well, strong/weak is relative, as you can adjust the relative size so both ends of the axle are the same strength.
[01:56:54] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: being able to STEER is useful.
[01:57:09] <zeeshan|2> oh i forgot
[01:57:14] <zeeshan|2> i left wrong wheel drive a while back
[01:57:14] <zeeshan|2> :P
[01:57:22] <zeeshan|2> im looking at the pic of the carnage
[01:57:28] <zeeshan|2> the cv shaft exploded
[01:57:32] <zeeshan|2> taking out the tripod with it
[01:57:34] <zeeshan|2> nice
[01:58:00] <furrywolf> some offroad vehicles have really fancy nested double rzeppa joints, to be able to both steer and deal with extreme suspension travel at the same time...
[01:59:06] <furrywolf> hrmm, google images isn't finding a picture of one, probably because I don't know the proper name.
[01:59:13] <ThisSucks> Baja trucks are a prime example
[01:59:27] <zeeshan|2> that multiple ball joint looks like a fun machining project
[01:59:31] <zeeshan|2> i can see why you want to build one
[02:00:09] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: did i tell you
[02:00:12] <furrywolf> ThisSucks: yep
[02:00:17] <zeeshan|2> i saw a ball joint failure right in front of me?
[02:00:22] <zeeshan|2> this guy had a modified cobalt ss
[02:00:22] <furrywolf> when I get 5-axis working, I want to make one. :P
[02:00:26] <zeeshan|2> the ball joint failed
[02:00:39] <zeeshan|2> the wheel flew up and down hard, cruashing the entire fender
[02:00:47] <zeeshan|2> it was so violent that the windshield cracked
[02:00:48] <zeeshan|2> :D
[02:01:19] <furrywolf> fun
[02:01:26] <zeeshan|2> tighten your balls!
[02:01:29] <furrywolf> all the failures I've seen have been substantially less interesting.
[02:01:43] <furrywolf> the one I broke myself just spun inside the cup
[02:02:08] <tjtr33> image on google images for 'Rzeppa six-ball CV joint" ? i dunno i'f recognixe the variant
[02:02:10] <zeeshan|2> sounds like subaru engineering
[02:02:11] <zeeshan|2> :)
[02:02:26] <andypugh> furrywolf: Making one is probably easy(ish) making a good one, that is hard enough, with the right surface finish is probably a post-heat-treatment grinding job.
[02:02:30] -!- DenSchub has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[02:02:34] <tjtr33> furry's dbl nested variant
[02:02:44] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: ive been researching into heat treatment
[02:02:53] <zeeshan|2> apparently if you do things precisely
[02:03:00] <zeeshan|2> you can get away with not having to grind
[02:03:08] <zeeshan|2> cause the dimension is stable after heat treatment
[02:03:18] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: the tolerances in a CV joint are very, very tight.
[02:03:40] <zeeshan|2> yea im talking a couple tenths of deviation
[02:03:53] <tjtr33> eh, ask any mold or die maker how well the pros do at that ( close but no cigar, not good enuf for no grind )
[02:03:58] <zeeshan|2> like for example 8630
[02:04:33] <ThisSucks> Post heat treat? Not happening
[02:04:34] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: i was reading an article on gear making
[02:04:47] <zeeshan|2> apparently they achieved tolerances after heat treatring
[02:04:49] <furrywolf> andypugh: even if I just make one out of wood as a paperweight, it'll be a shiny toy. :P
[02:04:54] <zeeshan|2> so no post grinding needed
[02:04:55] <zeeshan|2> major $$$
[02:04:56] <furrywolf> and a good machining exercise
[02:04:58] <zeeshan|2> *saving
[02:05:03] <tjtr33> tenths is way out of tolerance for bearings
[02:05:22] <zeeshan|2> sounds reasonable
[02:05:26] <zeeshan|2> i guess for gears it not as bad
[02:05:27] <zeeshan|2> couple thou is ok
[02:05:55] <furrywolf> probably used for gears that are lapped in pairs...
[02:08:42] <furrywolf> andypugh: http://www.type2.com/bartnik/images/cvhubpit3.jpg shows the V-pairs of grooves better. I'd need to re-rtfm, but it's something about forcing the cage to center properly
[02:08:58] <furrywolf> also, that shows what happens if you run one without grease!
[02:09:23] <zeeshan|2> i dont see why you need to make it super precise
[02:09:28] <zeeshan|2> couldnt you use different ball sizes
[02:09:31] <zeeshan|2> to meet tolerance again
[02:10:55] <furrywolf> that's assuming the size change is perfectly uniform across the entire part, even though the grooves are wrapped around a sphere, etc. :P
[02:11:20] <ThisSucks> or there is error on the radius of the groove.
[02:11:38] <zeeshan|2> it shoul;d be pretty damn uniform :P
[02:11:45] <ThisSucks> ball suffers birnelling and you have junk in 100mi
[02:11:46] <zeeshan|2> and the internet says
[02:11:52] <zeeshan|2> these types of joints are case hardened
[02:12:05] <zeeshan|2> so they're gonna distort even less
[02:12:57] <furrywolf> cv joints have probably the highest pressures of any part on a vehicle.
[02:13:12] <andypugh> Injectors
[02:13:28] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: didnt you heat treat stuff
[02:13:28] <furrywolf> andypugh: injectors don't need to be packed full of expensive $$$$ high-moly grease. :)
[02:14:32] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Yes, I used to be a metallurgist, and have done some fairly exotic heat treatment. Like quenching in 300C molten NaOH
[02:14:41] <zeeshan|2> then cmon
[02:14:46] <zeeshan|2> you should know the recipes
[02:14:58] <zeeshan|2> to minimize / eliminate distortion
[02:15:01] <furrywolf> andypugh: think of the forces on the contact point of those six balls... figure you're dumping 1000ftlbs or more through those six balls, and they're at 45 degree angles, on only a 1.5" radius...
[02:15:15] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: any ball bearing
[02:15:18] <furrywolf> and they're spheres in a different-radius groove, so there's only a single point contact...
[02:15:19] <zeeshan|2> is seeing loads like that
[02:15:23] <zeeshan|2> those things arent anything special
[02:15:37] <zeeshan|2> its a point contact
[02:15:40] <zeeshan|2> large hertzian stress
[02:15:50] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: sure, if you take a ball bearing and applied many tons of radial loading to it. :P
[02:16:07] <andypugh> Fuel injectors run at 20,000 psi. That’s alarmingly close to the yield point of metals.
[02:16:18] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: what part of em?
[02:16:25] <furrywolf> what injectors are these? lol
[02:16:33] <ThisSucks> Direct injection
[02:16:37] <andypugh> The parts with 20,000 psi fuel in, mainly
[02:16:40] <ThisSucks> any diesel
[02:16:48] <zeeshan|2> only 10 ksi away from yield
[02:16:49] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[02:16:59] <furrywolf> I seem to remember diesel fuel is in the range of 2000psi, not 20000psi...
[02:17:08] <ThisSucks> that is mechanical
[02:17:24] <ThisSucks> the common rail stuff is much higher
[02:17:25] <furrywolf> and given as you can transport it from the pump to the injector in generic rusty steel thin-wall lines...
[02:17:26] <zeeshan|2> gotta use those fuel pumps
[02:17:28] <zeeshan|2> for my home made water jet!
[02:17:53] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: tiny lines can take a lot of pressure :P
[02:18:10] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: I don't remember the exact math anymore, but if you work it out, the stress on the CV joints is higher than any other part in a car. heh.
[02:18:20] <furrywolf> none of the bearings in a car see side loading like that
[02:18:21] <andypugh> The lines are quite thick-walled
[02:18:37] <andypugh> But, I might have my unit conversions wrong.
[02:18:44] <furrywolf> I have a ford spider somewhere... I can go check it tomorrow if you want... I'm pretty sure they're just normal wall tubing. :)
[02:18:54] <zeeshan|2> furry for some reason i think a wheel bearing sees more
[02:18:56] <tjtr33> lines dont see 20K, this must be some localized pressure
[02:19:19] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: wheel bearings are tapered roller bearings. much less stress.
[02:19:28] <furrywolf> rollers have big contact patches. :)
[02:19:39] <zeeshan|2> not all are tapered roller
[02:19:52] <zeeshan|2> but yuea :P
[02:20:03] <andypugh> http://www.delphi.com/docs/default-source/old-delphi-files/4567b695-e76c-4fbf-98ed-6ba5d76079e5-pdf.pdf?sfvrsn=0
[02:20:25] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: thanks for showing me not to crash into a diesel car
[02:20:26] <andypugh> 2000 bar = 29,000 psi
[02:20:27] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: cv joints are the only part that specify special extreme pressure grease. wheel bearings you can grease with just about anything. :)
[02:20:31] <tjtr33> i imagine a diff in the nearing ( sheared forces, not in same place for long) and the injector forces
[02:20:47] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: lies
[02:20:54] <zeeshan|2> the pivot for a clutch
[02:20:57] <zeeshan|2> requires moly grease too
[02:21:09] <zeeshan|2> but i think youre right
[02:21:18] <zeeshan|2> the cv joint sees some high localized stress
[02:21:44] <furrywolf> for the clutch it's mostly a temperature thing.
[02:22:03] <andypugh> That same document says that their newer posher pumps do 2500 bar
[02:22:12] <tjtr33> heh 2Kbar, that'd put your eye out!
[02:22:22] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i really wanna use one of those and start a waterjet project
[02:22:24] <zeeshan|2> if they are cheap enough
[02:22:25] <zeeshan|2> :D
[02:22:35] <ThisSucks> Caterpillar Unit injection is 3kBar
[02:22:36] <tjtr33> incredibly small volume tho
[02:22:37] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: they can't even pump modern diesel reliably, much less water. :P
[02:22:46] <andypugh> They rely _heavily_ on fuel lubricity
[02:22:51] <furrywolf> stupid ulsd...
[02:22:54] <zeeshan|2> fine
[02:23:00] <zeeshan|2> itll be a diesel-garnet cutter
[02:23:00] <zeeshan|2> ok
[02:23:41] <andypugh> What could _possibly_ go wrong?
[02:23:50] <greg> hydrostatic pressure don't necesarily result in high stress on the component think of a bullet being made of lead being shot at 30,000 -50,000psi
[02:24:29] * furrywolf notes bullets deform themselves to fit the barrel of the gun due to the forces on them...
[02:24:37] <greg> a little
[02:24:44] <zeeshan|2> wut
[02:24:47] <tjtr33> and soft metal
[02:24:48] <zeeshan|2> the equations are simple
[02:24:50] <andypugh> greg: Bullets get to run away, injector internals don’t
[02:24:54] <zeeshan|2> sigma = pr / t
[02:24:59] <zeeshan|2> stress is stress
[02:25:12] <zeeshan|2> sigma being stress
[02:25:20] <zeeshan|2> p and sigma are directly proportional
[02:25:34] <tjtr33> stop with the tau sigma stiff and say stress :)
[02:25:38] <zeeshan|2> no
[02:25:46] <zeeshan|2> thats how iremember it!
[02:25:49] <zeeshan|2> itll mess with my mind
[02:26:04] <andypugh> I doubt that a bullet see the 50,000 psi. (my “running away” was a little glib, but captures the essence of pressure pulses in gasses)
[02:26:10] <tjtr33> fine but i remmeber tau as the inverse of duty cycle and you confuse me
[02:26:24] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: haha
[02:26:27] <zeeshan|2> damn electrical people
[02:26:40] <greg> which component sees this stress? The needle?
[02:26:57] <tjtr33> i thought the opening orifice thingy
[02:27:04] <zeeshan|2> greg: the tube
[02:27:06] <zeeshan|2> that is holding the fluid
[02:27:18] <greg> sure, but that's nothing to worry about
[02:27:18] <zeeshan|2> this is the stress that tries to rip it apart
[02:27:51] <zeeshan|2> it'll only cut someones hand off
[02:27:53] <zeeshan|2> it went off :P
[02:28:00] <zeeshan|2> *if
[02:28:48] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: it's common to bleed air from diesels by loosening the nuts on the lines. if you do this, always wear a glove and put a rag over the fitting, because it sprays out rather dangerously. :)
[02:28:48] <andypugh> Most of the injector internals see that pressure. It is enough to change internal dimensions a fair bit, for example.
[02:29:20] <andypugh> There is quite a lot going on inside a diesel injector, as they are a piloted valve,
[02:29:24] <greg> what are those tips made of?
[02:29:31] <ThisSucks> Realize that the rail pressure is modulated. It not always at full output
[02:29:45] <zeeshan|2> even better
[02:29:48] <zeeshan|2> its not fatiguing shit!
[02:29:54] <zeeshan|2> *now
[02:30:49] <tjtr33> piloted as in they have help? like pneumatic piloted valves that only have to overcome a small force to switch a large force?
[02:31:07] <ThisSucks> No, small squirts of fuel before the main event
[02:31:21] <ThisSucks> that is how they cut the noise down
[02:31:50] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[02:31:51] <furrywolf> I haven't worked much on common-rail diesels, only mechanical injection.
[02:31:59] <andypugh> ThisSucks: Well, actually, I wasn’t talking about Pilot injections, I was talking about valve actuation
[02:32:00] <andypugh> http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/US8100344B2/US08100344-20120124-D00002.png
[02:32:07] <furrywolf> there's no "squirts before the main event" :P
[02:32:17] <zeeshan|2> i see a bunch of cylindrical pressure vessels in that diagram
[02:32:51] <zeeshan|2> are those springs super stiff
[02:32:53] <furrywolf> andypugh: you work at ford, right? can I blame you for the evil copper injector cups on powerstrokes? :P
[02:33:11] <greg> Furry where have you been? last I heard it was up to 5 injection events per cycle
[02:33:26] <ThisSucks> andypugh: Ahh, thought we where talking piezoelectric injectors.
[02:33:32] <furrywolf> the ones that crack, and the first sign of it is when you discover your entire oil pan has been pumped into your radiator. :)
[02:33:54] <andypugh> I think 117 is the Piezo stack that opens a tiny hole in 153 that changes the pressure balance on each side of 31 that allows the holes 12b to open
[02:34:12] <furrywolf> greg: <furrywolf> I haven't worked much on common-rail diesels, only mechanical injection.
[02:34:26] <andypugh> ThisSucks: I was, but I was talking about how they work internally, not how they are used.
[02:35:00] <ThisSucks> Who's technology is this? Bosch?
[02:35:03] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:35:05] <furrywolf> ThisSucks: he means pilot-operated as in a pilot-operated solenoid valve or similar, where a small valve applies forces to something that actuates the large valve
[02:35:15] <andypugh> That looks like a Bosch one to me
[02:35:29] <tjtr33> thats a normally closed device, the pressure would preexist in kanal 11c, not created by the injector ( from what i think i saw :)
[02:35:31] <greg> i'll look into the material and stresses this week. That sort of stuff is intersting
[02:35:39] <andypugh> Delphi tend to use solenoids.
[02:35:48] <ThisSucks> furrywolf: I know what he mean, thank you.
[02:36:08] <zeeshan|2> Getting tense in here
[02:36:09] <andypugh> Actually, I have changed my mind I think that one looks like a Continental injector.
[02:36:13] <zeeshan|2> who wants to arm wrestle
[02:36:25] <tjtr33> how about them cubbies?
[02:36:37] <zeeshan|2> http://www.intellicast.com/Local/WxMap.aspx
[02:36:39] <zeeshan|2> im about to get owned
[02:36:44] <zeeshan|2> bah i just realized you guys cant see that
[02:36:50] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: at least you don't have fires.
[02:36:56] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Excess Flood]
[02:37:06] <andypugh> tjtr33: Yes, the fuel is fed at full pressure to the injector. The injector just lets it out the end, or doesn;t.
[02:37:17] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: my neighbor had to evacuate his ranch due to them...
[02:37:17] <tjtr33> windsor detroit or chicago?
[02:37:18] <zeeshan|2> we might get a tornado
[02:37:22] <zeeshan|2> im gonna go watch this storm
[02:37:33] <zeeshan|2> hopefully icatch a tornado
[02:37:34] <tjtr33> andypugh, thought so thx for making me not crazy
[02:37:41] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: that sux
[02:38:08] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:38:22] <tjtr33> so the pressure _is_ in the rail, wow
[02:38:25] <andypugh> I have worked with these things for 10 years and I still can’t figure out that specific diagram :-)
[02:38:48] <furrywolf> there's, at a rough estimate, 150,000 acres on fire around here right now
[02:38:48] <furrywolf> the largest fire was 50,000 acres this morning
[02:38:59] <furrywolf> I think another was 30,000ish.
[02:39:13] <andypugh> furrywolf: Do you have enough marshmallows?
[02:39:30] <tjtr33> yeah but no sticks left
[02:39:33] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy shower time
[02:39:44] <andypugh> andy sleep time
[02:39:47] <andypugh> Night all
[02:39:50] <tjtr33> night all
[02:39:53] -!- andypugh has quit [Quit: andypugh]
[02:40:00] -!- tjtr33 [tjtr33!~tjtr33@d47-69-66-82.try.wideopenwest.com] has parted #linuxcnc
[02:45:37] -!- HoppingMadMan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[02:50:11] -!- PetefromTn_ has quit [Quit: I'm Outta here!!]
[03:02:25] -!- AR_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[03:02:34] -!- HoppingMadMan [HoppingMadMan!~HoppingMa@201.153.218.144] has joined #linuxcnc
[03:03:52] -!- HoppingMadMan has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
[03:09:21] -!- greg has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[03:14:50] -!- HoppingMadMan [HoppingMadMan!~HoppingMa@189.179.235.90] has joined #linuxcnc
[03:20:07] -!- tim has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[03:22:52] -!- mozmck [mozmck!~moses@67.210.159.245] has joined #linuxcnc
[03:23:25] <mozmck> zlog
[03:23:25] <zlog> mozmck: Log stored at http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2015-08-02.html
[03:28:06] -!- HoppingMadMan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[03:41:06] -!- [cube] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[03:43:22] -!- Computer_Barf1 [Computer_Barf1!~technoid@c-50-186-255-137.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has parted #linuxcnc
[03:46:39] -!- amiri_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[03:47:27] -!- [cube] [[cube]!~cube@bas17-ottawa23-1279427905.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #linuxcnc
[03:47:35] -!- HoppingMadMan [HoppingMadMan!~HoppingMa@201.153.218.144] has joined #linuxcnc
[04:02:44] -!- HoppingMadMan has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[04:17:11] -!- anth0ny_ has quit [Quit: anth0ny_]
[04:36:34] -!- Roguish has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 39.0/20150630154324]]
[04:37:48] -!- MacGalempsy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[04:42:40] -!- MacGalempsy [MacGalempsy!~quassel@ip72-204-45-74.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[04:48:28] -!- Jesseg has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[04:49:19] -!- ve7it has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[04:51:28] -!- ThisSucks has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[05:01:41] -!- Jesseg [Jesseg!~jesseg@64.146.180.237] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:06:48] <furrywolf> http://www.apc.com/products/family/?id=371 I've never seen that before. it's pretty cute. it's a multi-circuit 3-input transfer switch that will do intelligent things like cycle through loads that exceed the generator's output based on programmable time settings...
[05:07:29] -!- anth0ny_ has quit [Quit: anth0ny_]
[05:07:30] <XXCoder> interesting
[05:08:11] <furrywolf> so you can say that, for example, the freezer must run 30 minutes every hour, the sump pump 30 minutes every hour, etc, and it'll run them alternately if the generator can't run both at once.
[05:08:23] <furrywolf> based on actual load measurements
[05:09:29] <XXCoder> nice
[05:09:34] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@next.stiwoll.mah.priv.at] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:09:44] <XXCoder> with big blocks of ice in freezer it would do just fine
[05:10:38] <furrywolf> it also lets you plug in a UPS as the third input, so you can specify circuits that must be on the ups, circuits that don't need to be on the ups, and circuits that can run off the ups if it has spare power but can be shut down if the ups would be overloaded.
[05:12:25] <furrywolf> ice in the freezer helps, but those gel packs work much, much better. I've tried them. :)
[05:12:38] <furrywolf> I've also used saltwater mixtures in gallon jugs.
[05:13:04] <XXCoder> yeah in general, harder it is to freeze, the longer it takes to melt
[05:13:44] <furrywolf> it has to do with temperature... water ice will hold the freezer at 0C/32F, which is too warm for many other things you'll have frozen.
[05:13:59] <furrywolf> things that freeze at lower temperatures will tend to hold the temperature lower when they melt.
[05:14:18] <XXCoder> nice
[05:16:44] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFEY--Gp1D8
[05:16:46] <XXCoder> jeez
[05:17:02] <XXCoder> he makes plier fron single peice of ood
[05:17:03] <XXCoder> wood
[05:17:07] <XXCoder> 10 cuts
[05:18:59] <furrywolf> that's an old trick.
[05:19:09] <XXCoder> not to me but cool
[05:21:26] <XXCoder> http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2015/lunch-bags-wcb/
[05:21:29] <XXCoder> nice!
[05:21:34] <furrywolf> they're also utterly useless. :)
[05:23:59] <XXCoder> well if you need to pinch someone in a hurry lol
[05:24:57] <furrywolf> they'd probably break doing even that.
[05:26:54] <XXCoder> lol ok
[05:27:35] <furrywolf> note how easily that wood splits...
[05:27:41] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:27:42] <furrywolf> in every direction!
[05:28:01] <furrywolf> also note he actually made 12 cuts, he just made two off-camera. :P
[05:28:16] <furrywolf> (the end of the pliers blank magically becomes pointed)
[05:28:36] <XXCoder> he used tools to make it nice and square
[05:28:48] <XXCoder> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lenore-m/17254437933
[05:28:50] <XXCoder> finally
[05:28:53] <XXCoder> a drill big enough
[05:29:02] <XXCoder> strong lady too
[05:30:24] <furrywolf> that looks very fake. :P
[05:30:28] * furrywolf assumes it's hollow
[05:30:33] <XXCoder> yeah 3d print
[05:30:51] <XXCoder> funny object to display at workshop though
[05:30:58] <XXCoder> put it by drill sizes array lol
[05:31:11] <XXCoder> "oh that's for... special projects. yeah." lol
[05:32:16] <furrywolf> I saw some bits about 4" diameter and 16" long at a swap meet about a year ago, but decided I didn't need them.
[05:32:35] <furrywolf> BIG morse taper. MT5? 6? don't remember.
[05:34:22] <XXCoder> big drill allright
[05:34:54] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[05:34:56] <furrywolf> he was selling them for $10 each, I probably should have gotten a couple just as novelties, but I really couldn't think what I'd ever do with them.
[05:35:22] <XXCoder> sometimes its just for fun
[05:35:34] <XXCoder> once bought 4" tv for novelity
[05:35:42] <XXCoder> made a lego moc featuring it
[05:35:51] <XXCoder> looked like HUGE screen tv lol
[05:36:59] <furrywolf> moc?
[05:37:15] <XXCoder> my own creation
[05:38:18] <furrywolf> you have to specify that? lol
[05:38:56] <XXCoder> well all groups has its own lingo
[05:39:03] <XXCoder> cnc. ipm. rpm
[05:39:06] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@c-73-42-162-67.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:39:16] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Changing host]
[05:39:16] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:39:17] <XXCoder> moc. studs. SNOT
[05:39:24] <furrywolf> lol
[05:40:40] <XXCoder> it even has own units
[05:40:42] <XXCoder> 2x4
[05:40:47] <XXCoder> 2x2 1x8
[05:40:56] <furrywolf> I haven't played with legos in a very long time... no kids left anywhere in the family. lol
[05:40:56] <XXCoder> 2x4 studs brick
[05:41:16] <XXCoder> you still has em in box somewhere? some sets has become very valuable.
[05:42:22] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[05:42:53] <furrywolf> no
[05:43:22] <furrywolf> and no one I knew had "sets" either... sets and instructions are for weird people. :P
[05:43:44] <XXCoder> lol yeah always made my own stuff
[05:44:42] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:46:20] <furrywolf> with one of the kids, we combined parts with many non-lego parts... ever weld an axle to a block from excessive rpm? :)
[05:46:32] <XXCoder> lol nope
[05:46:51] <XXCoder> I never got much lego, wasy very poor when kid
[05:47:28] <furrywolf> same here... and all the kids I've helped with lego creations... part of why using non-lego parts.
[05:47:39] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[05:48:49] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:49:23] <XXCoder> heh nowdays children has it so different
[05:50:18] <furrywolf> http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/6/9/7/0/0/3/webimg/840751041_o.jpg lol
[05:50:30] <furrywolf> nowadays children don't seem to do anything, from what I can tell.
[05:50:43] <furrywolf> there's no treehouses, no toy stores,...
[05:51:10] <XXCoder> well good news is that stats show kids is finally playing outside bit more
[05:51:19] <XXCoder> recovering from all indoors 2000s
[05:51:20] -!- [cube] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[05:52:06] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[05:53:38] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@c-73-42-162-67.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:53:48] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Changing host]
[05:53:48] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:55:41] -!- [cube] [[cube]!~cube@70.50.50.66] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:56:55] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[05:57:38] <XXCoder> interesting https://edfries.wordpress.com/2015/03/13/fixing-computer-space-3/
[05:58:30] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:01:18] <furrywolf> can we fix their web designer?
[06:01:38] <XXCoder> its pretty plain page
[06:03:24] <furrywolf> the entire first screen is a grey box with one word on it.
[06:06:42] <XXCoder> weird
[06:06:50] <XXCoder> mine has one word and large picture of kif
[06:06:51] <XXCoder> kid
[06:09:52] <furrywolf> I'm surprised they didn't socket the chips in that
[06:10:41] <furrywolf> also, a vacuum station makes jobs like that much, much easier. :)
[06:10:57] <furrywolf> mine sucks and needs fixing every time I use it, but it still beats a solder-sucket!
[06:10:58] <furrywolf> sucker
[06:11:09] <XXCoder> lol ok
[06:11:18] <XXCoder> dont know much about soldering myself
[06:11:52] <XXCoder> it has entire semtics. makes me wonder if it can be made with all new hardware.
[06:12:08] <XXCoder> looks like fairly low end stuff too
[06:12:46] <furrywolf> yes, it could. it could also be written in a few lines of code in much, much less time. :P
[06:12:51] <XXCoder> sure
[06:13:02] <furrywolf> or, if you really wanted to use the original schematics, you could program a mesa board with them. :P
[06:13:06] <XXCoder> it can be mid-skill level solder hobby thing
[06:13:23] <XXCoder> would need to convert output so can use lcd screen or something lol
[06:13:24] <furrywolf> fpgas are good for things like that. :P
[06:16:09] <furrywolf> https://edfries.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/031315_2128_fixingcompu36.png?w=1000 lol @ hard-coding the graphics. :P
[06:16:17] <XXCoder> indeed
[06:16:27] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[06:16:28] <furrywolf> there's absolutely no reason to lay the board out like the graphic...
[06:16:31] <XXCoder> chips for that was apparently expensive so he went for that
[06:16:36] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:16:46] <XXCoder> sure makes troubleshooting simple though lol
[06:17:31] <XXCoder> someones making emulator for those kind of machines
[06:17:34] <XXCoder> no cpu
[06:17:38] <XXCoder> just chips
[06:18:08] <furrywolf> they already have emulators for those kind of machines. any electronic simulation tool. heh.
[06:18:14] <XXCoder> lol
[06:18:29] <XXCoder> jeeez
[06:18:33] <XXCoder> nanobeam
[06:18:46] <furrywolf> I'm surprised it had so many bad chips.
[06:19:06] <XXCoder> capactors do die after some years but chips well dunno
[06:19:27] <XXCoder> later on he suspects it was due to kids discovery of how to play free games by static elecrity
[06:19:36] <furrywolf> heh
[06:19:44] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:19:53] <furrywolf> or the power supply that was putting out 4V was actually putting out 3-7V, all ripple...
[06:20:10] <XXCoder> it may well have slowly cooked those chips
[06:20:36] <XXCoder> http://www.nanobeam.us/
[06:20:40] <XXCoder> make a microcnc with it
[06:21:05] <XXCoder> check out free sample... $2. lol
[06:21:14] <XXCoder> shipping im sure lol
[06:21:25] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Excess Flood]
[06:21:42] <XXCoder> ah coupon
[06:23:12] <XXCoder> http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2015/nanobeam2/ interesting
[06:26:18] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:26:51] <syyl_> uhm
[06:26:58] <syyl_> miniature boschprofile Oo
[06:27:10] <XXCoder> boschprofile?
[06:27:43] <syyl_> everything that looks like a extruded profile with t-slots is referered as bosch profile here ;)
[06:27:55] <XXCoder> ahh ok
[06:28:00] <XXCoder> yeah it is real tiny
[06:28:01] <syyl_> like calling everything with fourwheel drive a jeep
[06:28:10] <syyl_> its cute :D
[06:28:11] <syyl_> but
[06:28:16] <XXCoder> so small it can be held by lego minifig as shown in my last link
[06:28:34] <syyl_> i dont like the flat stamped anglepieces
[06:29:20] <XXCoder> machine your own then heh
[06:29:27] <syyl_> i would much more like the diecast angleblocks
[06:29:51] <syyl_> but anyway, i dont see a use for it in my shop ;)
[06:29:56] <syyl_> dont need that small shelfes
[06:30:13] <XXCoder> it may be nice for building case for my cnc controller lol
[06:30:20] <syyl_> and if, i still can weld them up from 2mm welding wire ;)
[06:30:21] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[06:32:55] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@c-73-42-162-67.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:33:07] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Changing host]
[06:33:07] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:33:23] <XXCoder> Mr_Sheesh:
[06:33:47] <XXCoder> syyl_: lol guess so
[06:34:15] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[06:39:04] -!- almostworking [almostworking!~almostwor@unaffiliated/almostworking] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:45:55] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:45:57] -!- DJ9DJ [DJ9DJ!~Deejay@unaffiliated/dj9dj] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:46:06] DJ9DJ is now known as Deejay
[06:46:19] <Deejay> moin
[06:48:16] <just_pink> hi
[06:48:35] <XXCoder> hey
[06:49:55] -!- furrywolf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[06:54:04] -!- Komzzpa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[06:55:53] -!- rob_h [rob_h!~robh@90.206.204.161] has joined #linuxcnc
[07:00:33] -!- podarok [podarok!~podarok@host-176-38-13-39.la.net.ua] has joined #linuxcnc
[07:18:45] <XXCoder> just_pink: hows your project going
[07:19:17] <just_pink> slooow
[07:19:51] <just_pink> I make 2 more led rings..
[07:26:55] -!- Komzpa has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[07:27:33] <just_pink> http://i.imgur.com/ZGZ730z.png
[07:27:42] <just_pink> XXCoder: Deejay
[07:27:59] <XXCoder> that looks awesome.
[07:28:15] <XXCoder> but why not frosted clear?
[07:28:23] <XXCoder> that way there is much less light loss
[07:28:49] <XXCoder> or pure white leds all over so plastic covers will colorize em
[07:28:57] <just_pink> the cover is from the original stack light
[07:29:53] <just_pink> white leds looks white even with the cover
[07:30:03] <XXCoder> hmm
[07:30:12] <XXCoder> wonder if you could find frosted clear
[07:30:24] <XXCoder> but it still is quite visable so fine
[07:32:12] <just_pink> each ring have 10 led
[07:32:41] <just_pink> and i'm going to make 6 or 7 rings per color
[07:32:50] <just_pink> so 60-70 leds..
[07:33:02] <just_pink> per color!
[07:33:54] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[07:34:02] <just_pink> XXCoder: ^
[07:34:12] <XXCoder> brite bright :)
[07:34:19] <just_pink> how your stuff going on?
[07:34:23] <XXCoder> onder if you could make inside frosted so it is nice solid glow?
[07:34:35] <XXCoder> not moving unfortunately was too busy this weekend
[07:35:01] <just_pink> I'm fine with them now..
[07:35:19] <XXCoder> I may have finally discovered how very old bug triggers
[07:35:25] <XXCoder> so hopefully it will be fixed
[07:35:30] <XXCoder> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=129480
[07:35:40] <XXCoder> that bugs been around since 2002
[07:37:48] <just_pink> wow
[07:37:54] -!- Akex_ [Akex_!uid58281@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-scvraeajbyhztbjt] has joined #linuxcnc
[07:39:46] <XXCoder> http://www.instructables.com/id/LED-Cube-Night-Light/step3/Frosting-the-acrylic/
[07:40:53] <XXCoder> easiest way seem to be frosting spray lol
[07:42:20] <just_pink> I like the clear look
[07:42:34] -!- Tecan has quit [Quit: Live Long And Phosphor!]
[07:42:44] <XXCoder> cool
[07:46:15] <just_pink> I'm working now on the 3 one..
[07:50:57] <just_pink> XXCoder: how can I make single sided pcb from double sided pcb?
[07:51:31] <XXCoder> by stripping one side I guess
[07:51:39] <XXCoder> not much of a electrician
[07:51:46] <XXCoder> or solder
[07:52:21] <just_pink> how i can strip it?
[07:52:37] <XXCoder> dunno
[07:52:42] <XXCoder> I guess have to google it? :)
[07:53:07] <archivist> just ignore the unused side
[07:53:23] <just_pink> I have no idea what to google..
[07:55:28] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@next.stiwoll.mah.priv.at] has joined #linuxcnc
[07:57:20] <just_pink> archivist: but it will short the components..
[07:58:05] <archivist> use a drill to widen the clearance
[07:58:48] <archivist> are you milling or etching
[07:59:18] <just_pink> mill
[07:59:36] <just_pink> maby with chamfering end mill?
[08:00:20] <archivist> then you know the drill positions and can therefore invert and clear around the holes one way or another
[08:01:46] <just_pink> but how i can home it to do the oposit size?
[08:01:56] <just_pink> side*
[08:03:50] <archivist> there may well be internet resources on the flipping problem, often it involves a pair of holes in the pcb and two dowels on the base
[08:04:35] <just_pink> intrastig
[08:04:40] <XXCoder> yeah since it will need holes so as result can use pins to hold part position and clamp
[08:05:08] <archivist> use two of your mounting holes
[08:05:51] <renesis> i had something that located on three edges
[08:06:17] <renesis> and could either use the known distance between sides to reset X, or i could eyeball it
[08:06:39] <renesis> drop a .016 drill into a couple holes to locate
[08:07:59] <renesis> https://www.2linc.com/engraving/pyramid_1-8.htm
[08:08:13] <just_pink> I've order 30 pcb blanks duble sided instad of single side..
[08:08:20] <renesis> did best with those, 1/8" 30 degrees .005 tip
[08:08:48] <renesis> https://www.2linc.com/engraving_tools_pro_micro.htm
[08:08:54] <renesis> these are pretty good too
[08:09:16] <renesis> just_pink: i would just take the copper off one side with a 3/8" flat endmill
[08:09:25] <renesis> if i was doing single sided
[08:09:47] <just_pink> i have 3/8 hss
[08:09:50] <renesis> i had a fixture that held a large batch of 6x4 PCB i bought by the edges
[08:10:21] <just_pink> i dont know if it's sharp to remove te copper..
[08:10:27] <renesis> holding your work flat will be the biggest headache
[08:10:34] <renesis> yeah dunno i had carbide
[08:10:45] <renesis> if it has any kind of edge itll prob work
[08:11:18] <just_pink> i can use the fly cutter..
[08:12:18] <just_pink> or 2" face mill
[08:12:57] <archivist> just spot the holes, no need to clear the entire rear side
[08:12:58] <just_pink> But i think EDM will work the best
[08:15:43] <just_pink> where i can get flat piece of graphite
[08:18:14] -!- Baliano [Baliano!~yaaic@net-2-32-214-165.cust.vodafonedsl.it] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:22:43] -!- Baliano has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[08:26:31] -!- bz has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3-dev]
[08:27:31] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[08:33:38] <just_pink> XXCoder: almost done 3 rings
[08:33:47] <XXCoder> nice
[08:35:20] <just_pink> now i'm connect all the + pins
[08:42:45] -!- Komzpa has quit [Client Quit]
[08:42:58] -!- b_b has quit [Changing host]
[08:48:24] -!- Valen has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[08:59:31] <MattyMatt> motor brushes
[08:59:58] <XXCoder> hey
[09:00:35] <MattyMatt> ^flat graphite for just_pink
[09:03:05] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[09:18:20] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[09:22:56] -!- asdfasd [asdfasd!~332332@90.219.34.157] has joined #linuxcnc
[09:41:41] -!- carper [carper!~carper@host86-142-93-254.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[09:43:44] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[09:44:54] <carper> morning has used these hybrid steppers with encoders by leadshine ?
[09:45:32] <XXCoder> maybe bit too early morning for you ;)
[09:45:37] <XXCoder> you mean have anyone ...
[09:45:45] <XXCoder> ?
[09:46:18] <carper> sorry xx yes anyone lol
[09:46:32] <XXCoder> :D
[09:46:39] <XXCoder> havent tried em
[09:50:10] <carper> i tried running steppers with encoders a couple of yrs ago using mesa 5i20 and a 7i52 with the old version of linuxcnc
[09:51:51] <carper> not had the chance to play with the new setup as yet but got 2.8 installed on wheezy
[09:54:26] <carper> in the process of building a new workshop my lathe and mill are still in my old workshop for now untill i the new workshop is built and a fully move house lol
[09:55:20] <archivist> expanding space needs is a constant problem
[09:55:57] -!- arekm has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[09:56:16] <XXCoder> archivist: only till we invent time lord techology
[09:56:23] <XXCoder> the bigger inside thing
[09:58:24] <archivist> I wants bigger outside like http://www.collection.archivist.info/Dads_Shed.JPG
[09:58:33] <carper> yep thats so true for 5 yrs i wanted to build a router of a usable size but by the time i got all the stuff into my workshop it wouldnt have left much room. thats it that would solve all our problems a tardis type workshop
[09:58:57] <XXCoder> archivist: bigger outside smaller inside? thats sopposite of what I want lol
[09:59:12] <carper> i
[09:59:39] <XXCoder> if I ever had time lord tech I would expand my closet to be full 40'x40' workshop
[09:59:48] <XXCoder> and add rooms there, one room per big machine
[10:00:07] <XXCoder> room for tooling, room for other tools
[10:00:19] <XXCoder> yet another room for stock storage
[10:00:19] <archivist> I just got 4 extra bookshelf units yesterday to get stuff off floors and surfaces
[10:00:27] <XXCoder> no limit really.
[10:01:30] <carper> this new shop has a floor space of 20 x 30 yes i use them and steel filing cabinets
[10:01:40] -!- tlab0 [tlab0!~tlab@209.59.38.122] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:02:40] <archivist> 20x30 sounds nearly sensible size
[10:02:49] <carper> just bought 2 small 2 draw to put on castors and adding a tooling rack to the top of them
[10:04:31] <carper> i think its a case of the more floor space the more we aquire lol
[10:06:42] -!- arekm [arekm!~arekm@pld-linux/arekm] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:06:42] -!- cpresser_ [cpresser_!~cpresser@rstenpresser.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:07:49] -!- msantana` [msantana`!~darkstar@unaffiliated/darkstar] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:08:00] -!- tlab has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[10:08:00] -!- Praesmeodymium has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[10:08:00] -!- msantana has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[10:08:01] -!- almostworking has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[10:08:01] -!- cpresser has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[10:08:02] -!- Praesmeodymium [Praesmeodymium!~kvirc@c-24-21-129-95.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:13:00] -!- nofxx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[10:14:13] -!- Komzpa has quit [Client Quit]
[10:17:33] -!- arekm has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[10:34:04] -!- arekm [arekm!~arekm@ixion.pld-linux.org] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:34:04] -!- arekm has quit [Changing host]
[10:34:04] -!- arekm [arekm!~arekm@pld-linux/arekm] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:39:13] -!- arekm has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[10:42:49] -!- arekm [arekm!~arekm@pld-linux/arekm] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:47:58] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[10:49:36] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:52:57] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[10:54:03] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:55:43] -!- GeorgeHahn [GeorgeHahn!~GeorgeHah@c-69-141-92-254.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:03:18] -!- carper has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[11:10:06] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[11:18:23] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[11:24:44] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[11:25:55] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:29:40] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Excess Flood]
[11:30:50] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:37:04] <fenn> just_pink: try peeling the copper foil off like peeling a sticker with a razor blade
[11:39:05] <fenn> be careful not to get fiberglass splinters in your fingers, gloves are advised
[11:39:17] <fenn> unless it's a paper substrate
[11:42:15] <fenn> this page suggests using a soldering iron to help loosen the foil http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,86903.0.html
[11:43:28] -!- carper [carper!~carper@host86-142-93-254.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:44:48] <fenn> when you flip the pcb over you have to rotate it 90 degrees so the same edges pressed against your locating fixture
[11:45:00] <fenn> to align both sides
[11:46:36] -!- Computer_barf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[11:53:46] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[11:55:55] -!- PetefromTn_ [PetefromTn_!~IceChat9@75-136-59-160.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:02:49] -!- tlab0 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[12:05:29] -!- tlab [tlab!~tlab@209.59.38.122] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:07:26] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[12:13:18] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@c-73-42-162-67.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:13:28] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Changing host]
[12:13:28] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:18:30] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[12:19:50] <archivist> a repcrappers wet dream of a measuring probe http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?138,12918
[12:22:34] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:24:15] -!- Komzpa has quit [Client Quit]
[12:24:21] <fenn> that's a very old thread
[12:25:01] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[12:25:38] <syyl_> i would prefer the renishaw 6ball design.
[12:25:47] <syyl_> almost idiotproof
[12:26:34] <syyl_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/Syylishaw/2011-10-02_18-26-37_176.jpg
[12:26:43] <syyl_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/Syylishaw/2011-10-03_16-49-53_503.jpg
[12:26:52] <archivist> its the internal ferro fluid that is a giggle, cant see it being too repeatable
[12:27:00] <syyl_> yeah
[12:27:05] <syyl_> but its hightech!
[12:27:13] <archivist> neva
[12:27:17] <syyl_> ;)
[12:27:30] <fenn> syyl looks pretty solid :)
[12:27:32] <CaptHindsight> the post by VDX?
[12:27:52] <syyl_> uh
[12:27:55] <syyl_> just saw the nick
[12:27:59] <syyl_> i know that guy in person
[12:28:13] <syyl_> speaking of VDX
[12:28:19] <syyl_> he is german
[12:28:40] <archivist> I was searching probe images trying to identify the one I have and found that sketch
[12:28:43] <fenn> "A small pcb, six steel balls, three small rods, two wires and an old milling bit.
[12:28:46] <fenn> The rest is printable"
[12:30:07] <archivist> he seems to forget his thing in inbetween the plates so does a simultaneous + and - capacitance net not a lot
[12:32:00] <archivist> at least the method the one I have gets mentioned in an NPL doc on CMM probes and testing them
[12:33:20] -!- almostworking [almostworking!~almostwor@unaffiliated/almostworking] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:34:11] <fenn> i think the capacitance is measured between the probe body and the plates around it, not between the plates
[12:35:02] <archivist> exactly, the probe body moves towards one side at the same time as away from backside
[12:35:18] <fenn> i don't even know what one would need a sub-micron accuracy probe for
[12:35:57] <fenn> no archivist it measures the capacitance between the probe body and each plate one at a time
[12:36:03] <CaptHindsight> sub-micron glue guns of course
[12:36:57] <fenn> it is overconstrained though, there should only be 6 magnets
[12:37:19] <fenn> i'm not sure how overconstraint works out with ferrofluid
[12:39:05] <archivist> the constraint has to be circular to remove all error else you get an N constraint bending force variation
[12:39:50] <archivist> the same error that all the 3 contact 6 ball systems have
[12:41:47] <archivist> syyl_, have you measured its errors around a ball or disk ?
[12:42:27] -!- Mr_Sheesh [Mr_Sheesh!~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:46:17] <fenn> i'd go with a flexure design if doing the capacitive sensing probe
[12:50:41] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[12:52:13] <archivist> dual flexure and lvdt per axis exist, it is what is in the thing I got off ebay
[12:52:48] <archivist> mentioned as one of the analogue designs in http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/NPL/mgpg43.pdf
[12:53:43] <archivist> damned if I can find who made this one though, although stylii marked as Ziees Renishaw fit it
[13:02:39] -!- pcw_home has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[13:03:41] <archivist> https://www.google.com/patents/US4158919
[13:04:54] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[13:07:09] <archivist> here is the prior art for that reprap probe https://www.google.com/patents/US4866854
[13:09:03] -!- FinboySlick [FinboySlick!~shark@74.117.40.10] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:12:01] <PetefromTn_> syyl_ That probe looks real good man did you machine that yourself?
[13:15:56] <SpeedEvil> Starting with the caveat that I know this is a really bad idea - is anyone aware of any decent pages of lubrication and use of allthread as positioners?
[13:18:28] -!- pcw_home [pcw_home!~chatzilla@c-50-143-148-115.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:21:38] <archivist> you can calibrate your screw errors
[13:22:36] <archivist> or you can live within the accuracy of threaded rod
[13:22:54] <archivist> near as dammit
[13:23:00] <SpeedEvil> I 'don't care' about accuracy
[13:23:15] <SpeedEvil> I was more wondering about when the nut falls off
[13:23:28] <archivist> when it wears out
[13:23:42] <SpeedEvil> I worked that out
[13:23:48] <archivist> use a large enough nut area
[13:24:59] <fenn> what does "when the nut falls off" mean?
[13:25:06] <archivist> and a nice oil that does not drip off or dry
[13:25:20] <SpeedEvil> When the thread and nut wears enough that it stops working
[13:25:47] <archivist> were I choosy I might select the oil we use on the beam engine
[13:25:58] <fenn> beam engine oil
[13:26:17] <archivist> we actually use the steam oil in the bearings
[13:26:54] <fenn> SpeedEvil: if you use a delrin or teflon nut you can get away without using lubrication
[13:27:22] <fenn> also 1/2 acme threaded rod (used to be) pretty cheap from enco
[13:28:10] -!- MacGalempsy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[13:29:53] <fenn> $15 for 36 inches
[13:30:20] <fenn> 5/8-6 is same price but coarser thread
[13:30:39] <CaptHindsight> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/ACME-Thread-Lead-Screw-Nuts/ACME-Thread-Lead-Screws/1-2--10-X-36-ACME-LEAD-SCREW-1-2983-50-3.axd $9.85 for the same
[13:31:13] <CaptHindsight> class 2G rolled threads, so nothing special
[13:32:28] <archivist> only trouble with rolled threads is pitch error which limits the nut length you can use
[13:32:43] -!- furrywolf [furrywolf!~randyg@68-27-212-5.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:33:15] <fenn> is it a constant error or a changing error
[13:33:53] <archivist> depends
[13:36:28] <archivist> I was measuring some rough rolled thread when restoring a screw measuring machine, can be cycling/drunk or plain pitch error or all of the above
[13:36:40] <archivist> cyclic
[13:37:24] <archivist> some notes at the time http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/lamp_screw.php
[13:37:32] <fenn> well hey that's what screw error mapping is for right :P
[13:38:11] <archivist> yup
[13:38:13] <fenn> just fire up yer interferometer (where did i put it)
[13:38:59] <archivist> the world needs cheap/affordable interferometers with a digital output
[13:39:17] <fenn> it's surprisingly easy to hack together with a laser pointer and webcam
[13:39:25] <fenn> "simple matter of programming"
[13:39:50] <archivist> I got an education demo one and used a laser off a level
[13:42:07] <CaptHindsight> would the "world" really use them? And whats the patent status?
[13:42:52] <archivist> I imagine lapsed, must be enough prior art
[13:43:44] <archivist> all the machine measuring scale market
[13:44:17] <fenn> interferometers have been around for a hundred years
[13:44:36] <trentster> wow!! That took a bloody long time to cnc cut - one down one to go http://monosnap.com/image/OrWuLYehpWTLAkwoAVKyVjuwVFqRjm
[13:44:40] <archivist> but always been buggers to use in the real world
[13:45:01] <fenn> yeah i wonder if modulating the laser with some RF would be more suitable to real world use
[13:45:13] <trentster> The next one is for tomorrow - feel half crazed following machine around with cutting oil and vacuum :P
[13:45:35] <fenn> chirp the modulation frequency to disambiguate nulls... this is how laser range finders work
[13:45:43] <fenn> easier said than done of course
[13:46:23] <archivist> trentster, looks ok
[13:46:27] <Rab> trentster, what's that for? New gantry leg?
[13:46:42] * archivist looks for the file marks
[13:46:45] -!- md-2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[13:46:58] <trentster> yeah - looks ok - not bad for 1st try - We will see how well it does with the Ribs on it
[13:47:24] <fenn> the tabs are 100% thickness?
[13:47:26] <trentster> archivist: I have a feeling its gonna make a big difference
[13:47:41] <archivist> measure the machine flex before and after
[13:47:52] <trentster> no file marks thats how it looks just took it off machien and washed it in soapy water
[13:48:15] <trentster> I used a very slow feed rate - holes are clean look like they were factory machined
[13:48:38] <trentster> fenn no thats the back of the plat - they are triangular tabs
[13:48:47] <trentster> you just can not see em in that pic
[13:49:36] <trentster> archivist I will - still need to cut second side.
[13:49:57] <trentster> just the profile cut at slow feed rates took ages like 1h 45 min
[13:50:19] <PetefromTn_> looks good trentster
[13:50:33] <fenn> it's a thing now, hope it works
[13:50:52] <trentster> it better or i look for tall building
[13:51:12] <trentster> I better have all my measurements right in cad/cam
[13:51:41] <trentster> PetefromTn_: thanks man - its progress for a newb like me
[13:51:47] -!- Komzpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[13:53:59] <PetefromTn_> looks fine for anyone really I don't know how it will all work but the part looks pretty good to me
[13:55:44] -!- Komzpa has quit [Client Quit]
[13:57:57] -!- almostworking has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
[13:58:29] <PetefromTn_> what machine did you cut that piece on?
[13:59:10] <trentster> on my DIY build - its a part to replace itself
[14:00:54] <trentster> PetefromTn_: thats what it looks like at the moment https://monosnap.com/file/sLxh83DTAUADmKMt5FMAqp6RUEtRlX.png
[14:01:23] <trentster> soon to be a lot better - also got some linear rails for the Z axis which will get a redesign once new gantry is installed
[14:04:10] <PetefromTn_> damn that is pretty good for a cnc router table DIY well done man. Should make it even more capable afterwards.
[14:05:54] -!- Komzpa has quit [Client Quit]
[14:06:03] <Rab> You're winning the game when you can get your machine to the point that it can cut its own upgrades.
[14:08:14] <trentster> yeah - it should be good
[14:09:18] <trentster> PetefromTn_: i just gope I have not messed up by dropping the height of the gantry - the original idea was to have a lot of flexibility to the height of the Z - but in rwality I find most of what I cut /mill etc is not very large
[14:09:59] <trentster> *reality
[14:10:33] <trentster> Also the spindle I have on there at the moment is a 400Watt joke
[14:10:53] <trentster> When I get a real spindle - things will be a lot better
[14:10:55] <PetefromTn_> well there seems to always be a tradeoff between Z height and rigidity to these types of designs so you probably made the right choice
[14:11:02] <Rab> trentster, since you're having issues with gantry rigidity, it may help to go more conservative on the height.
[14:11:15] <trentster> but I guess the moral of the story is you can get shit done without the best stuff in the begenning
[14:11:54] <trentster> Rab yeah besides the reduction in height now using thicker and wider stock + ribs on both sides
[14:12:01] <ssi> marn
[14:12:33] <Rab> I will say that while my own machine is nominally a router, with 6" Z travel, workholding can eat that up fast. There was a case where I was using an angled vise to hold a die-cast box and almost ran out of travel.
[14:13:57] -!- amiri has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[14:16:21] -!- amiri_ has quit [Client Quit]
[14:16:49] <trentster> archivist I decided to not go with the spare series 10 extrusion I have available rather than buying more 3060, I also did not like the idea of buly ribs on the side, so using 25x25 mm extrusion for ribs now. I am sure it will be rock solid
[14:18:26] <trentster> I mean I decided TO go with the series 10
[14:23:32] <Sync_> has anybody disassembled one of those small vari tork slipper clutches?
[14:25:20] -!- PetefromTn_ has quit [Quit: I'm Outta here!!]
[14:31:49] <Sync_> holy fuck
[14:32:04] <Sync_> they sure are annoying to disassemble
[14:33:04] -!- pcw_home has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[14:36:24] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[14:37:39] -!- carper has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[14:51:09] <Rab> Wow...I'm trying to help a friend fix a bearing squeak in her Vandercook printing press, 1954 S/N and 1935 design. Turns out the part of interest uses a pair of wood bushings.
[14:51:47] <Rab> http://vandercookpress.info/vanderblog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/uni-iii-drum1.jpg
[14:52:29] -!- eFuchs has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[14:52:56] <archivist> wood is good in wet conditions, it is used in a number of places in the steam engine and pump we look after
[14:53:00] <Rab> Seems like an area for improvement, but it has held up for 61 years.
[14:53:56] -!- ivansanchez has quit []
[14:54:02] <Rab> This is an ink roller, so it's routinely exposed to a solvent wash. Maybe there was no way to keep conventional bearings lubricated.
[14:54:17] <archivist> I have one part that we replaced nearly 10 years ago, the bearing surfave still has a shine on it
[14:55:56] <archivist> we have wooden teeth as seals in the air and water pumps, and wooden bearings in the flap valve at the air pump outlet, machine dated back to 1849
[14:56:20] <ssi> I have a friend with a couple ancient printing presses
[14:56:21] <ssi> they're pretty cool
[14:56:30] <archivist> just replacing the pump suction side seal this year
[14:56:52] <Rab> Wonder if teflon/nylon/HDPE would be as performant in this application.
[14:57:15] <archivist> used elm for the air pump bearing iirc
[14:58:01] <Rab> No idea what wood was used. You can see the grain slightly in this photo: http://vandercookpress.info/vanderblog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Uni-1-inking-drum-wood-bearing-shaft-colars.jpg
[14:59:13] -!- eFuchs [eFuchs!~home_swee@dyn-31-25-157-250.ewacom.ropa.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:59:40] <archivist> wood seems a good material for some bearings, just needs replacement now and again, when it rots
[15:00:21] <Rab> "The original F-761 wood bearing is still available from us, $9.75 each. Wood is still specified where oiling is not practical, as in the rider rollers. And these are not made out of 2x4s. The fact that the bearing lasted from the shipping date of May 15, 1941 for this press until about now is an indication of the long wearing capacity of the wood. I'm only 3 weeks older than this press and my
[15:00:27] <Rab> body parts are getting replaced with titanium."
[15:00:48] <archivist> hehe
[15:01:48] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[15:02:19] <archivist> Teak is another used wood but recent export restrictions has made us use something else for the pump seal
[15:13:23] <Simonious> What CAM software is recommended for a 3axis machine, where X is rotary? (2nd question - 4-axis, one rotary?)
[15:13:29] -!- paideia [paideia!~paideia@186.29.43.5.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:15:53] <archivist> most cam that knows about rotaries is beyond normal wallet capacity
[15:16:25] * Simonious sighs
[15:16:43] <Simonious> I've seen it done w/ cambam, but they just did it as a flat X and sent it to the rotary axis.. Not ideal!
[15:16:49] <Simonious> http://www.cambam.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2017.0
[15:17:03] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[15:17:41] -!- membiblio has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[15:17:54] <archivist> what are you making
[15:18:08] -!- membiblio [membiblio!~membiblio@108.32.57.2] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:18:17] <archivist> it may be trivial to hand code
[15:18:33] <Simonious> chair legs, gun stocks
[15:22:37] -!- b_b has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[15:22:47] -!- b_b has quit [Changing host]
[15:27:12] -!- Komzpa has quit [Client Quit]
[15:32:20] -!- paideia has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[15:32:39] <Simonious> so.. these machines with wooden bearings, were they used a lot? Seemd wild that they would last that long with daily use.
[15:33:19] <Tom_itx> archivist, hedgewood makes a good bearing
[15:33:38] <Tom_itx> used on old covered wagon wheels etc
[15:33:51] <archivist> that was greased though
[15:33:51] -!- quiqua has quit [Quit: quiqua]
[15:34:17] <archivist> ungreased in water is out application
[15:34:22] <Tom_itx> https://zibbet.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/photo/file/6158570/6158570-original.jpg
[15:34:22] <archivist> our
[15:34:53] <Tom_itx> very hard
[15:35:36] <archivist> ah not the real name http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=62300.0
[15:35:58] <Tom_itx> yeah
[15:36:50] <archivist> Simonious, some machines in constant use yes
[15:37:22] <Simonious> what was that machine?
[15:37:25] -!- podarok has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[15:38:16] <archivist> Rab, is working on a printing machine, we are working on a steam engine and pump
[15:39:28] -!- dan2k3k4 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[15:47:13] -!- Daerist has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[15:51:32] -!- gonzo_nb [gonzo_nb!~gonzo@host-92-4-33-202.as43234.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:54:08] <Rab> Simonious, it's a proof press, a type of printing press designed for taking a quick print of a type form for error checking before production starts. So it's used daily, but not nonstop.
[15:57:42] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[15:58:15] -!- Tecan [Tecan!~fasdf@ip-216-234-182-80.wireless.tera-byte.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:58:15] -!- Tecan has quit [Changing host]
[15:58:15] -!- Tecan [Tecan!~fasdf@unaffiliated/unit41] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:05:11] -!- tocka has quit []
[16:10:24] -!- anth0ny_ has quit [Quit: anth0ny_]
[16:21:47] -!- Nick001-shop [Nick001-shop!~chatzilla@hrbg-74-47-120-106-pppoe.dsl.hrbg.epix.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:21:50] <mozmck> I'm sure osage-orange would work for bearings. It's very hard, but not open grained like a guy on that forum said. It will sand and polish very smooth easily.
[16:22:26] <furrywolf> I like wood... for building houses. not bearings.
[16:22:55] <mozmck> From what I heard, lignum vitae (sp?) was used for years and may still be for bearing around ship propeller shafts as it would outlast any metal they had.
[16:23:06] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[16:23:53] <archivist> we had one float away during a steaming, took about an half an hour to hack a new one and get running again
[16:24:07] <mozmck> lignum vitae?
[16:24:12] <archivist> elm
[16:24:17] <mozmck> ah.
[16:24:34] <mozmck> So do they still use wood for that a lot?
[16:24:52] <furrywolf> I don't think wood is used for any bearing in any application a lot. :)
[16:25:22] <archivist> it was for under water
[16:26:03] <furrywolf> is, not was. :)
[16:26:31] <mozmck> http://lignum-vitae-bearings.com/
[16:26:37] <ssi> lol
[16:27:13] <mozmck> furrywolf: I prefer the best material for the application - don't care what that happens to be.
[16:27:42] <mozmck> Wood is still an excellent option for some airplane construction as well ;)
[16:28:03] <ssi> indeed :P
[16:28:09] <ssi> and softer wood than you might expect
[16:28:24] <mozmck> true!
[16:28:27] <archivist> balsa being a hardwood :)
[16:28:51] <mozmck> Yellow pine is harder than some hardwoods.
[16:29:04] <ssi> yeah I built my craftsman bench out of southern yellow pine
[16:29:09] <ssi> it being available and inexpensive
[16:29:14] <ssi> maple or ash is awesome but spendy
[16:29:28] <furrywolf> I built my workbench from fir. it's dirt cheap.
[16:29:33] <ssi> airplanes are built mostly out of sitka spruce or doug fir
[16:29:38] <furrywolf> I think the 8ft 2x8s were $5 each...
[16:29:40] <ssi> fir isn't cheap here
[16:29:43] <mozmck> I sanded and re-finished a 100 year old yellow pine floor, and it was by far harder and tougher than the oak floors I've done.
[16:29:45] <ssi> you're in the fir belt :)
[16:29:52] <ssi> SYP is dirt cheap here
[16:30:10] <furrywolf> pine is much more expensive than fir here.
[16:30:18] <furrywolf> redwood is pretty cheap too, but df is cheaper.
[16:31:35] <furrywolf> pine here is only used for decorative finish applications. way too pricey for structual wood.
[16:31:48] -!- md-2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[16:31:52] <furrywolf> most places only have it in clear 1x.
[16:32:01] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/1655940_10100323142257832_709089540_n.jpg?oh=00b9c00a4ff31862dfd8094e10686d69&oe=564BE175
[16:32:12] <ssi> I built that out of 2x12 framing lumber from home depot
[16:32:13] <ssi> SYP
[16:32:28] <furrywolf> and it's really crappy soft pine
[16:32:36] <ssi> copied the benchcrafted design for vise hardware but I Made all my own hardware on the mill
[16:32:39] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1620718_10100323142337672_1530810118_n.jpg?oh=f148c966492a83fed113f2452a47ba40&oe=56360BF4
[16:32:47] <ssi> bought cast iron wheels from mcmaster
[16:33:02] <furrywolf> while doug fir is available everywhere for dirt cheap. :)
[16:33:15] <furrywolf> 8ft DF 2x4s are $2-$3 depending on where you shop
[16:34:09] <furrywolf> hrmm, I don't have any pictures of the workbench... http://fw.bushytails.net/benchsupply01.jpg shows a tiny part of it!
[16:34:14] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/1621931_10100324764806232_532970114_n.jpg?oh=505107b6c72d3977e125271ec930069c&oe=5635D3EC
[16:34:17] <ssi> leg vise
[16:34:54] <furrywolf> it's 2x8s on top, with 2x4s running underneeth them, with more 2x4s front-back, with 4x4 legs with 2x4s on the bottom to make nice feet.
[16:35:01] * archivist steals the lambda supply from under the bench
[16:35:45] <furrywolf> I only had enough urethane to do the top, so the top is urethaned, but the underside and legs isn't.
[16:36:12] <furrywolf> I have my wilton machinist's vise on the workbench. much more useful than a wooden vise for things I do.
[16:36:57] <furrywolf> archivist: mine! I like it. :P
[16:37:46] <furrywolf> works much better than pete's. :)
[16:38:07] <archivist> my 5 axis steppers live on a lambda switcher supply
[16:38:21] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[16:38:57] <furrywolf> I got it on ebay... don't remember what I spent, somewhere in the $150 range.
[16:39:25] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_01_05_cnc_build_start/P1050048.JPG
[16:39:47] <archivist> I wound up the volts to max :)
[16:40:04] <furrywolf> I built a supply for mine... a 40vac toroidal transformer, bridge, capacitor.
[16:40:32] <furrywolf> 650VA transformer, 54V after rectification and filtering.
[16:40:54] <archivist> mine was the right price, less effort
[16:41:05] <furrywolf> I might look for a higher voltage transformer, try to get 70V out of it.
[16:41:19] <furrywolf> or stick a 12VAC transformer in series with it
[16:41:47] <furrywolf> I can get to about 1.6 in/sec, 2 would be better. :)
[16:42:01] <archivist> or just wind another coil on the core
[16:42:09] <furrywolf> potted
[16:42:16] msantana` is now known as msantana
[16:43:10] <furrywolf> hrmm, I must be missing the scale somehow, because that supply looks awfully BIG for 24V 20A.
[16:43:55] <archivist> I think robust comes to mind
[16:44:14] <furrywolf> http://www.iotaengineering.com/dls2725.htm I've got a couple of those. was thinking of using two of them in series before I decided to just build a supply.
[16:46:02] <archivist> 5"x9" ish
[16:46:39] <zeeshan|2> archivist: what is this intensse power craziness
[16:46:54] <zeeshan|2> i see some drivers
[16:47:02] <zeeshan|2> and a top notch power supply
[16:47:04] <archivist> it was "available"
[16:47:10] <ssi> zeeee
[16:47:14] <zeeshan|2> ian!
[16:47:18] <zeeshan|2> youre alive
[16:47:20] <ssi> yep
[16:47:32] <zeeshan|2> the triangle didnt swallow you
[16:47:34] <ssi> they let me back into the country even
[16:47:35] <zeeshan|2> good
[16:48:02] <ssi> only one significant problem
[16:48:13] <ssi> lost my one and only comm radio about halfway out over the water on the way down
[16:48:53] <furrywolf> you don't have three radios? bleh. :P
[16:49:24] <ssi> I didn't build this one
[16:49:30] <ssi> I would have put dual comms in personally
[16:49:38] <ssi> or at least a single modern radio like an SL40
[16:50:04] <ssi> I haven't really dug into it yet but I suspect the antenna cable might have shorted and blown up the output transistors
[16:50:09] <ssi> RX fine, TX no good
[16:50:13] <ssi> garbled sidetone
[16:50:23] <ssi> no carrier audible from my wingman 50' away
[16:50:56] <furrywolf> I went with unregulated linear since it was cheaper and wouldn't do anything annoying on overload, it'd just sag a bit...
[16:51:01] <ssi> had to do 1000nm in formation with hand signals, including the border crossing and all the towered ops
[16:51:13] <furrywolf> I guess I should say unregulated transformer, because linear implies regulation. :)
[16:51:46] <ssi> for a servo supply?
[16:51:54] <ssi> there's really no reason to have a regulated supply for servos
[16:52:00] <ssi> filtering is plenty
[16:52:08] <ssi> the servo amps do the "regulation"
[16:52:12] <furrywolf> stepper
[16:52:16] <ssi> same
[16:52:32] <ssi> supply voltage just influences coil charging time
[16:52:33] <furrywolf> yes, I know... archivist used a fancy lambda regulated supply. :)
[16:54:01] <furrywolf> also, my steppers make remarkably good generators, didn't want to piss the supply off by raising the output voltage.
[16:54:02] <archivist> I use the within arms reach method :)
[16:54:31] <furrywolf> I have the handwheels on the machine still... if I give any of them a couple cranks with the machine off the power supply gets charged enough to where the machine powers up. :)
[16:54:38] <furrywolf> >24V
[16:55:46] -!- dr0w has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[16:58:28] <furrywolf> it's surprising really... you could run the machine just by cranking one of the handwheels back and forth for power!
[16:58:31] -!- HoppingMadMan [HoppingMadMan!~HoppingMa@189.179.235.90] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:58:40] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[17:00:09] -!- dr0w [dr0w!~george@loudsl01-253-117-18.c.iglou.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:00:40] <CaptHindsight> ssi: how much do you filter servo drives with 120 or 240VAC power inputs? :)
[17:01:11] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I've been buying AMC drives with AC supplies built in, they just have an IEC plug on them
[17:01:14] <ssi> super convenient
[17:01:18] <ssi> but it's just a bridge rectifier and a couple caps
[17:01:24] <ssi> can give you the specific values if you're interested :)
[17:02:24] <CaptHindsight> yeah most I use all have AC in as well, I can't recall an servo drive with DC input, maybe the Mesa servo board since it's more DIY
[17:02:38] <ssi> I've used plenty of servo drives with DC inputs
[17:03:15] <ssi> and something like an AMC BE25A20 drive... that's a max 200VDC input drive, and 120VAC rectified and filtered is about 170VDC
[17:03:29] <ssi> that's essentially what the BE25A20AC drive is, but with a bigger case and the builtin rectifier/filter
[17:03:31] <furrywolf> I think zee's also have an ac input, but it's a separate board that just rectifies and filters it.
[17:03:41] <ssi> zee uses the BE25A20AC drives, same as me
[17:04:28] <CaptHindsight> the ones that "blow up real good"
[17:04:37] <ssi> yeah they do blow up real good
[17:04:55] <ssi> I don't like the way the set switches and trimpots are hard to run without a screwdriver slippage shorting the DC bus
[17:05:17] <furrywolf> that's because you haven't yet discovered fiberglass screwdrivers. buy a set. :P
[17:05:18] <ssi> just have to be diligent about unplugging them and waiting for bus voltage to bleed
[17:05:25] <ssi> yeah that would be nice heh
[17:05:29] <CaptHindsight> an added feature/convenience, just not for you
[17:05:58] <furrywolf> I have a couple. you also use them for tuning inductors and other instances where a metalic object might alter the tuning.
[17:06:40] <furrywolf> or where it's high voltage and you don't want anything that'll conduct it anywhere near you.
[17:07:20] <furrywolf> http://www.rf-microwave.com/en/shop/0/163-tuning-screwdrivers-for-capacitors-coils.html examples
[17:11:03] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[17:11:05] <zeeshan|2> WTF mate
[17:11:08] <ssi> wat
[17:11:08] <zeeshan|2> dont post those numbers in public
[17:11:13] <ssi> lol sry
[17:11:14] <furrywolf> http://www.coilcraft.com/tools.cfm
[17:11:15] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:11:22] <zeeshan|2> you just made ebay prices go up
[17:11:24] <zeeshan|2> i swear after our talk
[17:11:28] <zeeshan|2> ive never seen them less than 150$
[17:11:30] <ssi> hahaha
[17:11:36] <ssi> that's cause you bought them all!
[17:11:37] <CaptHindsight> AMC gonna be angry?
[17:11:55] <CaptHindsight> oh heh, ebay
[17:12:07] <zeeshan|2> yep
[17:12:11] <ssi> I need to get those robot arms and figure out what drives I'm gonna use for them
[17:12:11] <zeeshan|2> they are all 150+ on ebay
[17:12:15] <zeeshan|2> cant believe i bought em for 50 bux each
[17:12:25] <zeeshan|2> yea 2 of them blew up
[17:12:28] <zeeshan|2> but still!
[17:12:29] <zeeshan|2> :P
[17:12:49] * furrywolf wants a robot arm
[17:12:52] <ssi> get one
[17:12:55] <ssi> I'm gonna get two I think
[17:12:55] <CaptHindsight> the ones with the part number sanded off?
[17:12:57] <archivist> ebay prices have some "chance" built in
[17:13:11] <CaptHindsight> on the IC's
[17:13:19] cpresser_ is now known as cpresser
[17:14:33] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: yes
[17:14:36] <zeeshan|2> but thats amc..
[17:14:39] <zeeshan|2> they're idiots
[17:14:59] <ssi> I bought a mesa 8i20
[17:15:02] <furrywolf> lol
[17:15:03] <ssi> I haven't done anything with it yet
[17:15:23] <ssi> they're a bit spendy compared to good deal ebay AMC drives
[17:15:23] <furrywolf> I need a 7i76e, but pcw is suffering from a minion shortage, and is out of stock.
[17:15:27] <ssi> but they're cheap compared to new drives
[17:15:51] <zeeshan|2> ive been keeping an eye out for 2 more drives
[17:16:03] <furrywolf> for when you blow more? :P
[17:16:06] <zeeshan|2> no
[17:16:11] <zeeshan|2> i wanna get 5 axis working on the mill
[17:16:12] <zeeshan|2> ventually
[17:16:14] <zeeshan|2> *eventually
[17:16:24] <zeeshan|2> i wanna build a trunion table for it
[17:16:31] <furrywolf> does it already have 5-axis parts, or do you just mean bolting a rotary table or two to it?
[17:16:42] <zeeshan|2> yea basically bolting on 2 rotary tables
[17:16:51] <zeeshan|2> http://kitagawa.com/wp-content/uploads/trunnion-assembly.jpg
[17:16:53] <zeeshan|2> thats one
[17:16:55] <zeeshan|2> er here
[17:16:59] <zeeshan|2> http://www.cncindexing.com/assets/images/tilt-rotary-table-sh.jpg
[17:16:59] <furrywolf> no need for matching drives, then. you'll probably have a lot smaller motors anyway...
[17:17:08] <zeeshan|2> well i like to get matching drives
[17:17:10] <zeeshan|2> cause if you blow one
[17:17:12] <zeeshan|2> you can swap it
[17:17:20] <zeeshan|2> you dont always need 5 axis for example
[17:17:54] <ssi> or just don't blow up any more drives
[17:18:00] <zeeshan|2> hah
[17:19:00] <furrywolf> I want to do something similar, but I'll probably end up with something a lot more homebuilt than the thing you just pasted.
[17:19:32] -!- Komzpa has quit [Client Quit]
[17:19:44] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@next.stiwoll.mah.priv.at] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:22:22] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-4th-5th-axis-rotary-table-indexing-servo-rotation-manual-tilt-13-/161545293216 looks heavy-duty enough for your mill. :P
[17:22:37] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: bit expensive :P
[17:22:38] -!- lair82 [lair82!616b5c34@gateway/web/freenode/ip.97.107.92.52] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:22:44] <zeeshan|2> one thing i need to kee pin mind
[17:22:45] <zeeshan|2> is
[17:22:51] <zeeshan|2> i probably will have to replace the table on my machine
[17:22:54] <zeeshan|2> to get 5 axis working
[17:23:00] <zeeshan|2> because i dont wanna lose the 14.7" z travel
[17:23:14] <zeeshan|2> if i just bolt something on the table
[17:23:21] <zeeshan|2> ill lose at least half of that
[17:23:31] <zeeshan|2> which means forget drilling!
[17:23:37] <CaptHindsight> http://www.trunniontable.com/table-trunnions-c-1.html sometimes he has a few discounted ones on ebay
[17:23:54] <furrywolf> I suspect it's actually a bit larger for your machine. :P
[17:24:28] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan-lab: just cut the frame and weld in a spacer
[17:24:40] <zeeshan|2> huh?
[17:25:09] <CaptHindsight> your mill
[17:25:21] <zeeshan|2> ah
[17:25:22] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:25:24] <zeeshan|2> like a brideport
[17:25:26] <zeeshan|2> bridgeport
[17:26:08] <ssi> that 4th/5th would work pretty well in my cinci I think
[17:26:10] <zeeshan|2> http://www.fallimentiastevendita.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/900390-500x282.jpg
[17:26:13] <zeeshan|2> here is a regular micron
[17:26:25] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8jlmZqyW8wI/maxresdefault.jpg
[17:26:29] <zeeshan|2> here is a 4th axis option
[17:26:40] <zeeshan|2> http://www.vitcompany.com.ua/files/styles/main_image_for_gallery/public/mikron_wf_72_ch_3.jpg?itok=bytbqKxB
[17:26:40] <zeeshan|2> better
[17:27:06] <zeeshan|2> i guess rather than saying 4th axis
[17:27:08] <zeeshan|2> its be better to say A axis
[17:27:12] <CaptHindsight> much more bigger
[17:27:34] <ssi> well so the trunion is A, cause it's about X
[17:27:41] <ssi> the rotab on the trunion, what do you call that?
[17:27:51] <ssi> when it's vertical it's a C, but if the trunion rotates 90 degrees then it becomes a B
[17:27:54] <ssi> heh
[17:27:58] <zeeshan|2> wait sorry
[17:27:59] <furrywolf> I've been trying to find an affordable rotary table, and haven't... been trying to figure out what I could build a suitably sturdy one from.
[17:27:59] <zeeshan|2> mine is C
[17:28:04] <ssi> C is about Z
[17:28:06] <zeeshan|2> is
[17:28:07] <zeeshan|2> yes
[17:28:08] <ssi> so a rotab on a flat table is a C
[17:28:09] <zeeshan|2> i faked up
[17:28:25] <zeeshan|2> ideally you want C and about X
[17:28:27] <zeeshan|2> so A
[17:28:45] <CaptHindsight> http://numeryx.com/cnc/xyzabc.gif
[17:28:47] <ssi> yea but if your C is mounted on your A, then when A is rotated 90 degrees the rotab is about Y ;)
[17:29:02] <ssi> I guess you still call it a C
[17:29:06] <zeeshan|2> yes
[17:29:10] <ssi> I dunno, I haven't done ANYTHING with compound rotary axes
[17:29:16] <CaptHindsight> ^^ they go by HMC vs VMC
[17:29:29] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: its about the axis
[17:29:31] <zeeshan|2> in both cases
[17:29:49] <CaptHindsight> potato potato
[17:29:51] <furrywolf> I'll be calling them A and B.
[17:30:04] <zeeshan|2> i can see why mathematicians, physicists
[17:30:08] <zeeshan|2> say fuck you to xy z
[17:30:12] <zeeshan|2> and just go x0 x1 x2
[17:30:12] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:30:17] <ssi> quaternions :P
[17:30:18] <furrywolf> just because it happens to be rotated so it's flat against the table doesn't mean that's not its primary axis of rotation in use. heh.
[17:31:05] <ssi> it has nothing to do with primary, it's named according to its axis of rotation
[17:31:42] <CaptHindsight> A goes with X, B with Y and C with Z
[17:31:49] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: its a moving coordinate system
[17:31:55] <zeeshan|2> the base coordinate x y z moves
[17:31:56] <furrywolf> ssi: you can rotate it so it acts like C, but it'll be A/B in every other case. there's no point to calling it C.
[17:32:00] <zeeshan|2> its not stationary how youre thinking
[17:32:05] <CaptHindsight> you just have to decide which is XY and Z
[17:32:18] <zeeshan|2> lol i did so much math
[17:32:23] <zeeshan|2> regarding this bs
[17:32:25] <zeeshan|2> it gets so annoying
[17:32:29] <zeeshan|2> transformation matrices
[17:32:37] <CaptHindsight> yeah, like comparing infinities
[17:32:50] <zeeshan|2> SINGULARITY ALERT
[17:32:50] <zeeshan|2> SINGULARITY ALERT
[17:32:59] <zeeshan|2> oh noes!
[17:33:00] <CaptHindsight> if you say so's
[17:33:15] <furrywolf> no, the xyz stays stationary if you have a trunnion table... if you put the linear on top of the rotary sections, then your xyz would be changing. heh.
[17:33:25] <ssi> zeeshan|2: quaternions! :D
[17:33:32] <CaptHindsight> the problem is semantics and trying to put math into words
[17:33:43] <zeeshan|2> ssi hehe
[17:33:50] <archivist> does infinitely small=infinitely large
[17:33:55] <ssi> or matrices
[17:33:55] <furrywolf> I've written code to do transformation matricies, AND solve them for the inverse. does that count for something? :)
[17:33:57] <ssi> but quats are awesome
[17:34:03] <zeeshan|2> feynman put it correctly about math i think.
[17:34:04] <CaptHindsight> so people have a way with words, and others not have way
[17:34:09] <zeeshan|2> he said that math is ultimately about counting
[17:34:32] <zeeshan|2> you have 4 apples and 10 apples, before in the day , you would go 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
[17:34:36] <zeeshan|2> you'd count to get the number of apples
[17:34:48] <zeeshan|2> now you go 4 + 10
[17:34:56] <zeeshan|2> you made an operation so that you dont have to count all of them
[17:35:10] <zeeshan|2> F math
[17:35:28] <furrywolf> no, now you'd go "It's apples and oranges, not apples and apples! Apples and apples is a sin!"
[17:35:38] <zeeshan|2> :)
[17:35:57] <CaptHindsight> http://blogcnccookbookcom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/VMC4thTombstone.jpg
[17:36:03] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: i dont see how xyz stays stationary
[17:36:11] <zeeshan|2> for multiple axles
[17:36:18] <zeeshan|2> your coordinate system gets transfered to your part
[17:36:25] <zeeshan|2> so you can access the part consistently
[17:36:31] <CaptHindsight> what if you have 3 rotaries on each side of the tombstone?
[17:36:52] <archivist> run out of axes error
[17:36:53] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: i had that crap at one of my jobs
[17:37:02] <CaptHindsight> mounted on a pendulum?
[17:37:02] <zeeshan|2> but it was a multiple spindle machine
[17:37:09] <zeeshan|2> almost exactly like that
[17:37:18] <zeeshan|2> it'd index that table , machine the part
[17:37:22] <zeeshan|2> index , robot snapped the 3 parts
[17:37:23] <archivist> convention has to be ignored
[17:37:28] <zeeshan|2> while it was machining the other
[17:37:32] <zeeshan|2> it was so quick
[17:37:39] <zeeshan|2> but when it went wrong, it really went wrong :D
[17:38:06] <zeeshan|2> almost every 3 days
[17:38:12] <zeeshan|2> the biggest problem would be a robot gripper losing position
[17:38:15] <zeeshan|2> cause they are a piece of shit
[17:38:17] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: were the spindles mounted only above the tombstone?
[17:38:18] <zeeshan|2> :[
[17:38:24] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: yes 3 of them
[17:38:35] <zeeshan|2> right in line with the center of those 3 rotary tables
[17:38:42] <zeeshan|2> each of them i mean
[17:39:03] <zeeshan|2> our moto was
[17:39:12] <zeeshan|2> not fix the problem cause such high deviation of the gripper
[17:39:16] <zeeshan|2> but reprogram it to a new coordinate.
[17:39:17] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:39:21] <zeeshan|2> *causing
[17:39:29] <zeeshan|2> it was a never ending cycle
[17:39:42] <CaptHindsight> which robot arms and grippers?
[17:40:03] <zeeshan|2> http://www.rimrockcorp.com/files/GeneralIndustry/ABBIRB_2400.jpg
[17:40:08] <zeeshan|2> this style
[17:40:08] <zeeshan|2> and
[17:40:14] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOOG-HYDA-POINT-GROUP-ROTARY-TABLE-FIXTURE-BRISTOL-TOOL-/261977081521
[17:40:32] <zeeshan|2> http://www.toledoblade.com/image/2014/01/30/800x_b1_cCM_z/fanuc-robot.jpg
[17:40:34] <zeeshan|2> for that machine
[17:40:44] <zeeshan|2> the gripper was 1 "end effector"
[17:40:49] <zeeshan|2> with 3 grips
[17:40:56] <zeeshan|2> they'd all close together and open together
[17:41:08] <zeeshan|2> but the position in world space would get lost
[17:41:15] <zeeshan|2> and im rpetty sure it was a fault encoder causing that over time
[17:41:24] <zeeshan|2> but we never fixed the actual problem, just reprogrammed it
[17:41:59] <CaptHindsight> that why I never get on the Robot Arm Ride
[17:42:13] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:42:18] <zeeshan|2> itll crush you to death on the floor!
[17:42:28] <CaptHindsight> whoops missed a few pulses there, sorry
[17:43:04] <zeeshan|2> but you gotta eventually trust em right?
[17:43:05] <archivist> what first law....pffht
[17:43:08] <furrywolf> it's funny how rotary tables that cost more new and worth less used...
[17:43:13] <zeeshan|2> imagine while they are doing surgery and it loses some counts
[17:43:14] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:43:14] <CaptHindsight> would you like a box or bag for that sir.... your head
[17:43:23] <furrywolf> because they're too big for there to be any demand for them
[17:43:25] <zeeshan|2> "whoops cut your kidneys instead"
[17:43:36] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yep
[17:43:40] <zeeshan|2> they are silly expensive
[17:43:46] <zeeshan|2> but i think its relatively easy to build them
[17:43:52] <zeeshan|2> prolly a weeks worth of machining
[17:44:01] <furrywolf> it's not easy to build a low-backlash worm drive, I suspect.
[17:44:04] <archivist> start with a vertex add bits
[17:44:11] <ssi> does anyone do a harmonic drive rotab?
[17:44:23] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: just preload it
[17:44:26] <CaptHindsight> lots of nice harmonic drives off the shelf
[17:44:35] <ssi> harmonic drives are freakin cool
[17:44:38] <archivist> harmonic drives are over priced so far
[17:44:48] <zeeshan|2> whats a harmonic drive
[17:44:54] <ssi> WHAT
[17:44:59] <archivist> I want to test one one day
[17:45:04] <zeeshan|2> is it called soething else
[17:45:09] <archivist> no
[17:45:18] <ssi> goggle it nubcakes
[17:45:30] <zeeshan|2> giving me irrelevant results
[17:45:33] <zeeshan|2> i see 2 worm gears
[17:45:36] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1v7a0jsp1I
[17:45:39] <zeeshan|2> worm drives on the same gear
[17:45:43] <archivist> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_drive
[17:45:57] <furrywolf> I got a cycloidal drive gearbox for $20 at harbor freight, does that count for anything? ;)
[17:45:58] <furrywolf> :)
[17:47:37] <zeeshan|2> looks not too easy to build :P
[17:48:11] <ssi> they're freakin cool
[17:48:17] <ssi> those arms I want I think are all harmonic drive joints
[17:48:23] <furrywolf> http://toolmonger.com/2008/10/30/torque-multiplying-lug-nut-tool/ those have a cycloidal gearbox
[17:48:25] <archivist> fatigue life is what I think of
[17:48:36] <ssi> archivist: what, the flex spline?
[17:48:40] <zeeshan|2> this thing looks like a rotary engine
[17:48:42] <zeeshan|2> bound to fail
[17:48:42] -!- b_b has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[17:48:43] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:48:45] <CaptHindsight> ssi: pretty sure those are
[17:48:58] <ssi> CaptHindsight: they had those arms discounted to 699 for a couple days
[17:48:59] <archivist> ssi, yes
[17:49:03] <ssi> I talked to them and they said they'd honor that price
[17:49:10] <ssi> I'm gonna try to go snag two soon
[17:49:12] <zeeshan|2> isn't back lash really easy to eliminate from a worm drive?
[17:49:30] <zeeshan|2> you just use 2 worms
[17:49:37] <CaptHindsight> still 8 arms left
[17:49:39] <zeeshan|2> so the teeth are always in contact
[17:49:39] <furrywolf> ssi: which arms?
[17:49:48] <ssi> kuka kr150
[17:49:48] <CaptHindsight> still enough for a spider
[17:49:57] <archivist> depends on the quality of the worm and wheel, usually it is hard or needs running in
[17:50:01] -!- Komzpa has quit [Client Quit]
[17:51:18] <furrywolf> ssi: shiny. if I sent you $699, will one appear at my door? :P
[17:51:32] <ssi> I doubt it, but you're welcome to try :D
[17:51:39] <archivist> usually a single worm is on an eccentric to adjust mesh
[17:52:05] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_neLbcW_BY
[17:52:06] <ssi> lol
[17:52:08] <furrywolf> 0.06mm repeatability is pretty impressive, on that robot arm.
[17:52:27] <ssi> furrywolf: they're nice arms
[17:52:34] <ssi> I want to set one up with a router spindle and have it carve props
[17:53:07] <furrywolf> do they come with anything attached to them? (spindles/grippers/etc, controls, drives...)
[17:53:13] <ssi> nope
[17:53:14] <ssi> they were welders
[17:53:16] <archivist> spastic!=sturdy
[17:53:47] <furrywolf> do they come with welders? :P
[17:53:50] <ssi> nope
[17:54:14] <furrywolf> so they have motors, but no drives of any kind? that'll make them pretty expensive to actually make work, then.
[17:54:25] <ssi> yep
[17:54:45] <furrywolf> hrmm. I probably shouldn't be tempted, then.
[17:54:50] <ssi> I figure it'll cost about 3k to build a control for them
[17:56:43] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kuka-Roboter-KR100P-2-Robot-Arm-w-KRC1A-Controller-and-Teach-Pendant-/271597116926 control included
[17:58:00] <archivist> hehe a kit http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adcock-Shipley-milling-machine-/321822607978?
[17:58:10] -!- justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[17:58:12] <archivist> or some castings
[17:58:44] <furrywolf> oh well, out of my budget.
[17:59:26] <furrywolf> if it were $699 for a working one, I'd sell one of my generators and buy it... but $3699 is too much.
[18:01:49] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[18:02:36] -!- DaPeace has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[18:03:11] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kuka-Roboter-KR150L-150SP-2-Robot-Arm-No-Controller/271659536669?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D32765%26meid%3De5b37a6c26c8458e93b09288549b625a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D271597116926
[18:03:17] <ssi> same vendor
[18:04:10] * furrywolf steals all of zee's few dozen spare drives
[18:04:55] <furrywolf> looks like those arms have a lot of parts... and a mix of hydraulic and electric?
[18:04:59] -!- r0ute has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[18:05:08] <CaptHindsight> "no postage ,cant lift it, collection only"
[18:05:14] -!- justanotheruser [justanotheruser!~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:05:18] <ssi> I don't think they have hydraulics
[18:05:25] <ssi> I think it's all servo-driven harmonic drives
[18:05:35] <CaptHindsight> no hydraulics
[18:05:56] <CaptHindsight> worth it in parts
[18:06:04] <Rab> I think the shock with accumulator on the base might be for passive damping.
[18:06:06] <CaptHindsight> unless you
[18:06:19] <furrywolf> maybe it's all air, then
[18:06:22] <furrywolf> I see what looks like solenoid valves and lines...
[18:06:27] <CaptHindsight> unless your's was the underwater welding robot
[18:07:01] <furrywolf> or is all that add-ons from the welding operation?
[18:08:07] <CaptHindsight> looks like an air filter mounted on the base
[18:09:56] <furrywolf> googling shows others don't have all the extra stuff, so it must be from the last use.
[18:10:18] <furrywolf> yeah, there's an air filter on the base, then solenoid valves from the look of it on top
[18:10:34] <ssi> be good for my robot laser :D
[18:10:57] <furrywolf> at least I think that's what they are. :P
[18:11:10] <furrywolf> ssi: so it can chase you around the house before burning it down? :P
[18:11:11] <ssi> frickin' robots with frickin' lasers on their arms
[18:11:34] <ssi> I'm going to start a new robotic housefire service
[18:13:02] <furrywolf> build the robot firefighters first. :P
[18:13:07] <furrywolf> why don't we have those yet, anyway?
[18:13:19] <furrywolf> we can make bomb robots, why not a hose robot?
[18:13:21] <ssi> they're stealin our jeerrrrrrrbbbs
[18:14:22] -!- ve7it [ve7it!~LawrenceG@S01060014d19d0b68.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:15:05] <furrywolf> just make each section have treads on four sides, four steering actuators to the previous section, and a ball joint. make it a hundred feet long. it can unwind from a truck and locate itself anywhere within its reach. wrap it in lots of insulation and let it cool itself from the flowing water through the middle...
[18:15:36] -!- PCW [PCW!~chatzilla@99.88.10.65] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:16:22] <furrywolf> with enough flowing water, possibly with small spray jets on the external components, and the treads etc made from suitable alloys, it could crawl directly through a fire.
[18:20:45] <ssi> make it powered by water pressure
[18:20:46] <furrywolf> use hydraulics for running the tracks and steering rams, powered off the water pressure. :)
[18:20:47] <ssi> that'd be pretty cool
[18:20:55] <furrywolf> yes. :P
[18:21:06] <furrywolf> giant hose snake robot.
[18:21:43] <furrywolf> able to be driven into any room of a building, even through a fire, to get water where it's needed, with no risk to firefighters.
[18:22:46] <furrywolf> if it locates survivors, then firefighters can be sent in for the rescue, with the hosesnakerobot providing water along the route.
[18:28:14] <furrywolf> designing it in my head, it seems entirely feasable.
[18:28:23] <furrywolf> and not ungodly expensive, maybe $100/ft... heh.
[18:28:54] <furrywolf> in bulk.
[18:29:06] <furrywolf> probably more than that, actually.
[18:29:14] <furrywolf> less than $1000/ft!
[18:30:33] <furrywolf> also, it could bring in money doing hunky fireman tentacle porn. there's got to be a market for that.
[18:31:59] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@p5DCFDA7F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:32:12] -!- justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[18:32:18] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[18:33:00] <furrywolf> decisions, decisions... should breakfast be salad, tamales, quiche, or microwave frozen crap from the dollar store?
[18:33:13] <ssi> I want fried lobster :(
[18:34:07] <furrywolf> I've only had lobster a couple of times, and it's never impressed me as being particularly tastey.
[18:34:12] <furrywolf> kinda bland
[18:34:22] <furrywolf> crab-ish
[18:35:07] <furrywolf> both the salad and the tamales need to be used up...
[18:35:25] <CaptHindsight> must be a way to use those arms for entertainment at a restaurant
[18:35:42] <Simonious> upskirt cam?
[18:36:01] <furrywolf> spinning pizza dough and flipping omletes
[18:36:14] <CaptHindsight> rotisserie sides of beef or something
[18:37:06] <ssi> robot gaucho
[18:37:40] -!- md-2 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[18:37:55] <furrywolf> I'm in the mood for hot food. tamales it is.
[18:38:06] * furrywolf grabs the bottle of dave's insanity too
[18:38:51] -!- justanotheruser [justanotheruser!~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:40:31] <ssi> I had fried grouper and fried lobster in a little shack on the beach in exuma day before yesterday and it was flippin amazing
[18:40:35] <ssi> normally I'm not big on lobster either
[18:42:24] <Rab> CaptHindsight, robotic teppanyaki chef?
[18:42:58] <furrywolf> pan fried or deep fried?
[18:43:04] <ssi> deep fried
[18:43:04] <furrywolf> I don't like deep-fried anything.
[18:43:07] <furrywolf> eww
[18:43:29] <ssi> I'm not a picky bitch myself :)
[18:43:51] <Rab> I can eat some deep-fried food, but it seems like a waste of lobster.
[18:43:52] <ssi> which is a useful trait when in the third world
[18:44:26] <Rab> Better for oysters or catfish or other nasty po-boy fillings.
[18:44:47] <ssi> the fried lobster was way better than any steamed lobster I've ever had
[18:44:51] <ssi> it was sweet and tasty and amazing
[18:44:57] <ssi> fried in a light beer batter
[18:45:23] <Rab> That doesn't sound bad.
[18:45:50] <ssi> this place was basically an open air bar with a couple beer coolers and a deep fryer
[18:45:55] <ssi> they fried whatever the fishermen brought in
[18:45:58] <ssi> and you get what you get :)
[18:46:20] <CaptHindsight> Rab: I'd go for that
[18:47:13] <CaptHindsight> ssi: those are some of the best places
[18:47:18] <ssi> yeah it was great
[18:47:32] -!- Komzpa has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[18:47:36] <ssi> exuma is cool... pretty undeveloped
[18:48:06] -!- eFuchs has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[18:48:23] -!- eFuchs [eFuchs!~home_swee@dyn-31-25-157-250.ewacom.ropa.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:50:52] -!- skunksleep [skunksleep!~AndChat14@str-broadband-ccmts-ws-26.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:51:51] -!- HoppingMadMan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[18:55:50] -!- DaPeace [DaPeace!~Adium@46.243.107.151] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:56:56] -!- anarchos2 [anarchos2!~mike@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:57:04] <anarchos2> hi hi
[19:01:18] -!- HardWall [HardWall!~HardWall@86.122.174.23] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:01:19] -!- tannewt has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[19:03:07] <furrywolf> "The KRC1 controller is PC based and runs windows. " eww
[19:03:39] <ssi> yeah that's why I'm not super concerned about buying an arm with a controller
[19:03:52] <ssi> I'd rather build up a custom linuxcnc control for it and be guaranteeed to have the flexibility i NEED
[19:03:59] <ssi> lolcaps
[19:04:56] <furrywolf> well, if the pc-based-bits have linuxcnc drivers, it'd be very easy to linuxcnc it..
[19:05:15] <ssi> I have no clue what's in those controls
[19:05:26] <ssi> for all I know they'll turn out to be stupid crippled drives like the parkers
[19:05:29] * ssi is gunshy now
[19:05:45] <ssi> I don't know how realtime and synchronized arm apps tend to be
[19:07:03] -!- Komzpa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[19:08:00] <furrywolf> you need to make a computer vision system so the arm can follow people around the room.
[19:08:08] <ssi> and pew pew them with lasers
[19:08:19] <furrywolf> or just spin an endmill at them menacingly.
[19:08:29] <furrywolf> rev up the spindle the closer they get
[19:13:00] -!- justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[19:14:01] -!- justanotheruser [justanotheruser!~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:14:16] <furrywolf> reading the news, the biggest fire around here grew another 13,000 acres overnight. one of my coworkers had to detour around the bay as most of the roads from i5 to the coast are now closed...
[19:14:19] -!- HoppingMadMan [HoppingMadMan!~HoppingMa@201.153.218.144] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:14:44] <CaptHindsight> real time synch with robot arms is difficult with the factory controllers since they just spit out location info like the Parkers
[19:15:13] <CaptHindsight> if you want real time position info you need direct access to the encoders
[19:15:42] <furrywolf> 20 closed, 16 closed, 36 closed, 299 intermittantly closed
[19:15:49] <CaptHindsight> some arms are easier than others, some use fiber optics and copper, some use all copper
[19:16:30] <CaptHindsight> I think the Kukas are all copper and run the wiring on the outside
[19:17:32] <furrywolf> I'd be very tempted at $699, but the cost of the controller kills it.
[19:19:00] -!- justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[19:23:13] -!- eFuchs has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[19:24:31] -!- asheppard has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[19:25:34] -!- HSD has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[19:29:59] -!- lair82 has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[19:32:14] -!- dan2k3k4 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[19:36:15] -!- ganzuul [ganzuul!~n@87-92-234-208.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:39:57] -!- asheppard has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[19:40:08] -!- PetefromTn_ [PetefromTn_!~IceChat9@75-136-59-160.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:40:44] <ganzuul> Can I use lead as a vacuum gasket in say a PVD device?
[19:43:50] -!- skunksleep has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[19:45:59] -!- anarchos2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[19:56:06] -!- HSD [HSD!~user@c-24-10-227-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:00:31] -!- anarchos2 [anarchos2!~mike@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:02:41] -!- justanotheruser [justanotheruser!~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:02:57] -!- justanotheruser has quit [Client Quit]
[20:03:05] -!- justanotheruser [justanotheruser!~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:05:13] -!- The_Ball has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[20:06:31] -!- asheppard has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[20:10:58] -!- skunksleep [skunksleep!~AndChat14@str-broadband-ccmts-ws-26.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:12:40] <PetefromTn_> hey folks
[20:13:04] <PetefromTn_> whats happenin' in linuxCNC world today? anything interesting?
[20:15:08] <ganzuul> Are vacuum seals interesting?
[20:15:22] <PetefromTn_> MMh could be?
[20:16:32] <ganzuul> Thinking about trying soft metals as gaskets. Silicone might outgas too much unless you're in on NASAs space-age tricks.
[20:16:58] <PetefromTn_> gaskets for what?
[20:17:26] <ganzuul> A PVD chamber.
[20:18:08] -!- The_Ball [The_Ball!~ballen@95.211.190.205] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:18:16] <ganzuul> There would be high-energy, possibly very reactive elements all over.
[20:18:37] <PetefromTn_> I don't know jack about those kinds of coatings sorry
[20:19:23] <PetefromTn_> I did just get an interesting job presented to me today and I am trying to determine the best way to machine it in my VMC
[20:20:00] <ganzuul> I think my question is as simple as if lead will indent with micro-structures intact.
[20:20:05] <ganzuul> Oh?
[20:20:53] <PetefromTn_> lead is of course pretty maleable but I am not sure how it would hold up to a seal environment especially if there is any real heat involved.
[20:22:28] <XXCoder> lead has been used in motors for gaskets, but not pure lead
[20:22:32] <XXCoder> in some kind of paper matric
[20:22:35] <XXCoder> matrix
[20:24:10] <ganzuul> Heat in a vacuum environment acts in a funny way. Everything acts like radiated heat from say a lightbulb, even if the heat source is a gas flow.
[20:24:19] <ganzuul> XXCoder: cool!
[20:24:34] <XXCoder> ganzuul: not too sure if thats still the case though
[20:27:04] -!- Komzpa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[20:29:19] <ganzuul> Hmmm... silver and gold plated copper, too
[20:30:02] <ganzuul> That sound a lot like some sort of heatless brazing though.
[20:30:22] <XXCoder> gold is pretty darn good meal for m,any uses
[20:30:27] <XXCoder> too bad its valuable.
[20:30:35] <ganzuul> yeah...
[20:30:37] <XXCoder> *metal
[20:30:49] <XXCoder> once we find actual lead-> gold
[20:30:57] <XXCoder> bet ya lead would be rare
[20:31:27] <XXCoder> or just plain matter -> energy -> another kind of matter
[20:31:52] <ganzuul> Thorium reactors might be able to do it.
[20:32:36] -!- md-2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[20:33:25] <ganzuul> Say as a way to make the radon gas generated by that process safer.
[20:34:59] <ganzuul> "Radon is formed as one intermediate step in the normal radioactive decay chains through which thorium and uranium slowly decay into lead. " So quoth wikipedia
[20:35:14] <XXCoder> yay more lead
[20:36:30] <ganzuul> Can't be too hard to make it skip another few steps down the periodic table, while you're at it. It's not rocket surgery!
[20:36:51] <XXCoder> oh yeah, lead IS heavier material than gold
[20:38:51] <skunksleep> Dwarf star alloy
[20:39:12] <XXCoder> heh still remember when Thor hit Captain america's sheild
[20:39:21] <XXCoder> he hit it full power, not knowing who he was then
[20:39:33] <XXCoder> how did he know it was fine? lol
[20:43:18] <XXCoder> skunksleep: http://40.media.tumblr.com/874160666e81b8d762a15e1f25acd4f6/tumblr_mmgc6lL4tc1rvya9ro1_540.jpg
[20:47:02] -!- FinboySlick has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[20:48:01] -!- HoppingMadMan has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[20:48:20] <PetefromTn_> ANYWAYS...
[20:48:47] <PetefromTn_> I got this job here I need to cut and I was hoping for some input about best practices/cutters
[20:49:05] <PetefromTn_> I gotta machine these cast iron cases
[20:49:13] <PetefromTn_> they are rather thick some of them
[20:49:40] <Tom_itx> pic
[20:49:42] <PetefromTn_> and I need to machine some existing holes that are both tapped or smooth to a larger specific diameter
[20:49:49] <PetefromTn_> no pics right now sorry LOL
[20:50:14] <PetefromTn_> anyways there is a series of holes that will go thru all of the plates
[20:50:46] <PetefromTn_> and the plates have dowel alignement pins
[20:51:02] <PetefromTn_> so when they are stacked together they all need to line up real nice
[20:51:40] <PetefromTn_> what I am looking for is advice on making the cleanest straightest hole thru the parts atop these existing tapped/smooth holes
[20:51:53] <PetefromTn_> I was thinking drilling would wander way too much
[20:52:08] <XXCoder> small em and expand the holes?
[20:52:09] <Tom_itx> how much bigger?
[20:52:13] <PetefromTn_> then I considered dropping a center cutting endmill thru
[20:52:28] <PetefromTn_> from say about 3/8 to 1/2
[20:52:38] <Tom_itx> so more than a reamer would handle
[20:52:39] <PetefromTn_> I also considered ordering a gun drill
[20:53:10] <PetefromTn_> well I dunno a drill followed by a reamer would probably work but there is a danger of the drill wandering during the cut
[20:53:16] <PetefromTn_> and that would make the reamer follow it
[20:53:25] <cradek> how big are the holes?
[20:53:37] <PetefromTn_> we are talking about maybe 3" deep max
[20:53:38] <Tom_itx> he said .375
[20:53:47] <Tom_itx> to .500
[20:53:52] <cradek> oh 3" deep 3/8 wow
[20:54:05] <PetefromTn_> the finished hole needs to be a snug sliding fit for these studs
[20:54:16] <Tom_itx> so you need a reamer then
[20:54:24] <PetefromTn_> yeah the thickest piece is about 3" or so
[20:54:25] <cradek> I was thinking helical mill with a carbide end mill and then ream, but that's too deep
[20:54:27] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: what about 45 degree to start hole, then finally drill then reamer?
[20:54:48] <XXCoder> less wandering then
[20:54:49] <PetefromTn_> I was actually thinking of a gun drill
[20:54:59] <Tom_itx> pilot drill :D
[20:55:12] <XXCoder> Tom has a decent idea actualluy
[20:55:15] <PetefromTn_> or just buying a high helix mill and dropping it in slowly
[20:55:38] <Tom_itx> you'd need a plate under it if you used one
[20:55:43] <PetefromTn_> so a rigid carbide spot drill kinda slowly?
[20:56:00] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah this will be done atop 123 blocks appropriately placed..
[20:56:24] <Tom_itx> pics would help
[20:56:25] <PetefromTn_> biggest thing is that the holes are clean and straight thru as much as possible
[20:57:08] <PetefromTn_> not sure what pics would help really it is just a large casting of iron with a series of holes in it that I need to open up carefully
[20:57:17] <Tom_itx> you need to make sure they are perp to begin with then
[20:57:37] <PetefromTn_> I have already located all of the holes on the machine and have a drawing setup with them.
[20:58:04] <Tom_itx> if you're expanding exhisting holes maybe a drill press is an alternative solution
[20:58:10] <PetefromTn_> Well not really because the nature of the finished assembly is that it needs to have quite a few long studs going thru the whole assembly
[20:58:22] <Tom_itx> sounds like a mold
[20:58:32] <PetefromTn_> meh it has to be more precise than a drill press
[20:58:45] <PetefromTn_> which is why I have been asked to do it on the VMC
[20:59:44] <PetefromTn_> it's not a mold
[21:02:51] postaL is now known as postaL_offline
[21:04:04] <PetefromTn_> so? any other suggestions?
[21:04:19] <Tom_itx> not without a pic :)
[21:04:33] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[21:04:36] <Tom_itx> hah
[21:04:42] <Tom_itx> need to see what i'm milling sir
[21:04:53] <PetefromTn_> cast iron
[21:06:20] <Tom_itx> dinner.. i'll think on it
[21:06:27] <PetefromTn_> thanx
[21:07:45] -!- postaL_offline has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[21:08:23] <Simonious> SO.. I selected 'inside' and 'outside' for respective parts of the DXF in CAMBAM and it got it backwards. If I just reverse and use 'outside' for the inside cut it still fails, because it ends up approaching the cut zone from within the part. help =)
[21:09:09] <PetefromTn_> you need to change your lead in direction
[21:10:45] <CaptHindsight> I'm going to go with boring vs reaming
[21:11:06] <PetefromTn_> on my part?
[21:11:13] <CaptHindsight> yes
[21:11:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah I am without a quality boring head right now unfortunately
[21:12:06] <PetefromTn_> it is an excuse to buy one tho..
[21:12:39] <PetefromTn_> I would have to drill undersized enough to account for any wander tho and then bore to size
[21:13:09] <PetefromTn_> was thinking that a solid bit or rigid short drill like a gundrill or spotting drill would be best easiest...
[21:17:02] <Deejay> gn8
[21:18:03] -!- Deejay has quit [Quit: bye]
[21:19:51] <CaptHindsight> or buy a nice gun drill
[21:20:05] <PetefromTn_> that was one of my ideas actually
[21:20:17] <PetefromTn_> are they stupid expensive I have never personally bought one...
[21:20:52] <CaptHindsight> yeah all the nice stuff tends to be, but this job requires it
[21:21:23] <CaptHindsight> if you were confident and had done it before I'd use what you have
[21:21:38] <Tom_itx> boring a 3" deep .500 hole?
[21:21:56] * Tom_itx sees chatter doing that
[21:22:03] <CaptHindsight> you could try going from .375 to .400 and see how well it works
[21:22:22] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[21:22:34] -!- arekm_ [arekm_!~arekm@ixion.pld-linux.org] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:23:15] -!- arekm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[21:23:23] <CaptHindsight> it's this what gun drills are for? deep precision straight holes with a smooth finish
[21:23:42] <PetefromTn_> yup
[21:24:32] <CaptHindsight> whats the clearance/tolerance from stud to hole ID?
[21:25:31] <PetefromTn_> looking at gun drills on msc they all seem to be really long which makes sense I suppose but it is way more than I need and would probably make the job go worse I would imagine.
[21:25:47] <Tom_itx> gun drill is gonna be long
[21:25:52] <zeeshan|2> drilled 3/8 hole 6 " long before
[21:26:02] <zeeshan|2> in bronze
[21:26:18] <Tom_itx> i really don't think you'll have a problem drilling to 31/64 then reaming to .500
[21:26:19] <zeeshan|2> in my experience, the reason the drill wanders with longer holes
[21:26:24] <PetefromTn_> I have drilled much deeper holes much narrower it is not really an issue
[21:26:26] <zeeshan|2> is because of chip build up in the flutes
[21:26:40] <zeeshan|2> you literally gotta drill 0.050"
[21:26:43] <zeeshan|2> and then back it all the way out
[21:26:47] <zeeshan|2> when youre in the 2.5" range
[21:27:09] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, you have the exact hole locations right?
[21:27:10] <zeeshan|2> the 6" i did with 3" from both sides
[21:27:11] <PetefromTn_> this is already a thru hole for the most part
[21:27:16] <zeeshan|2> o
[21:27:24] <zeeshan|2> youre opening em up to size?
[21:27:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah within a reasonable tolerance
[21:27:40] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/ozC1hai.jpg
[21:27:43] <zeeshan|2> today is my day off
[21:27:49] <zeeshan|2> first job ive done on something so big
[21:27:52] <zeeshan|2> 25 ft trailer
[21:27:52] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:27:58] <zeeshan|2> i had to weld that hinge back into place
[21:27:59] <zeeshan|2> it broke
[21:27:59] <Tom_itx> if you have exact hole locations, i'd drill 31/64 then ream. the drill will be stiff enough it's not gonna deflect that much
[21:28:17] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: what if the current holes are not on center? :-)
[21:28:32] <PetefromTn_> I was actually thinking of using a thick shorter spot drill and drilling thru first and then reaming to size
[21:28:48] -!- postaL_offline [postaL_offline!~postaL@c-50-131-133-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:28:52] <Tom_itx> they're not gonna come out right if the exhisting holes are off anyway
[21:29:04] postaL_offline is now known as postaL
[21:29:31] <CaptHindsight> http://dmetool.com/ maybe a 5-6" gun drill, not sure of the cost
[21:29:45] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, are the original holes in the right locations?
[21:29:59] <Tom_itx> if so, do what i suggested
[21:30:02] <PetefromTn_> http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Holemaking/Straight-Flute-Die-Drill-Bits?searchterm=gun+drill&navid=4287923630#navid=4287923630+4288246822+4288214097&searchterm=gun+drill
[21:30:37] -!- FinboySlick [FinboySlick!~shark@squal.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:30:40] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx That is hard to say but I would think they are within a couple thousandths between all of them.
[21:31:00] <Tom_itx> why spend $120 on a bit?
[21:31:07] <PetefromTn_> that is a 6" 1/2 inch gun drill
[21:31:15] <zeeshan|2> i dont understand the big deal with drilling a 3" deep hole
[21:31:16] <zeeshan|2> in 1/2"
[21:31:16] <PetefromTn_> thats cheap really LOL
[21:31:20] <zeeshan|2> you can do that with a standard drill?
[21:31:22] <Tom_itx> zeeshan-lab, me either
[21:31:23] <CaptHindsight> 0.500 gun drill is $85ea 10" long
[21:31:27] <zeeshan|2> ive done it a bunch of times
[21:31:47] <PetefromTn_> the holes must not wander
[21:31:50] <Tom_itx> just don't use a cheapass drill from HF
[21:31:52] <zeeshan|2> but they wont
[21:31:55] <zeeshan|2> if you drill it right
[21:31:59] <zeeshan|2> and clear the chips
[21:32:05] <zeeshan|2> just go do it in a scrap piece
[21:32:07] <zeeshan|2> and see for yourself
[21:32:15] <CaptHindsight> ++ on clearing the chips
[21:32:19] <PetefromTn_> some of the holes are already tapped and must be drilled out
[21:32:22] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, they're not gonna wander if you have a hole already in place AND you use a large bit like 31/64
[21:32:33] <zeeshan|2> those ones i'd spot drill
[21:32:35] <Tom_itx> even so
[21:32:35] <zeeshan|2> with your own dril
[21:32:40] <zeeshan|2> to ensure you give it a nice starting spot
[21:32:46] <zeeshan|2> and itll be easy from there
[21:32:57] <PetefromTn_> I planned to spot drill ALL of the holes
[21:33:11] <Tom_itx> problem solved then.
[21:33:13] <Tom_itx> next...
[21:33:14] <zeeshan|2> the drill will follow your spot drill then
[21:33:14] <PetefromTn_> but the drilling really need to be straight
[21:33:14] <zeeshan|2> :P
[21:33:21] <CaptHindsight> or try Tom_itx's idea, slightly undersized and measure
[21:33:31] <zeeshan|2> do it on a scrap piece
[21:33:34] <Tom_itx> i would certainly ream the final hole
[21:33:37] <zeeshan|2> dont chip clear and youll see its not on center
[21:33:41] <ganzuul> Maybe look up the drill manufacturer's table for cast iron to get the speeds right?
[21:33:54] <PetefromTn_> of course
[21:34:06] <PetefromTn_> This is not my first drilled hole LOL
[21:34:21] * ganzuul is a noob with bright ideas! \o/
[21:34:22] <PetefromTn_> but yeah I plan to peck drill and clean out a LOT
[21:34:31] <Tom_itx> then why the big deal?
[21:34:42] <PetefromTn_> plus flood coolant in an already drilled hole should not be a big problem.
[21:34:43] <zeeshan|2> pete is just showing off
[21:34:45] <zeeshan|2> that he has a job
[21:34:47] <zeeshan|2> ;-)
[21:34:50] <ganzuul> lol
[21:34:55] <Tom_itx> yeah i'm playing along...
[21:34:58] <zeeshan|2> i just got him back
[21:35:03] <PetefromTn_> the big deal again is that the holes GOTTA be straight LOL
[21:35:05] <zeeshan|2> for him saying that about me for asking about tool holders and selling it!
[21:35:06] <zeeshan|2> :P
[21:35:32] <Tom_itx> so don't feed em at 10"/sec
[21:35:35] <PetefromTn_> Hey man I gotta squalk when I have work because it does not happen damn enough around here ;)
[21:35:55] <Tom_itx> cut the drill feed in half
[21:36:10] <PetefromTn_> ya know I went to the race shop today to pick up another job I need to do...
[21:36:14] <Tom_itx> that will help it not deflect
[21:36:29] <PetefromTn_> and things have not been exactly booming with them for me lately
[21:36:46] <PetefromTn_> so I go over there and was chatting with the guys
[21:36:55] <PetefromTn_> and the owner pulled me aside
[21:37:02] <Tom_itx> just don't try to anozide them
[21:37:17] <PetefromTn_> and asked me if I would be interested in working there in the shop as a fabricator
[21:37:44] <PetefromTn_> kinda surprised the shit out of me I was not expecting that
[21:37:56] <ganzuul> :o
[21:38:06] <Tom_itx> maybe he was desparate?
[21:38:23] <ganzuul> Not every day one gets offered a job that way.
[21:38:30] <PetefromTn_> thanks wiseass...
[21:38:34] <Tom_itx> hehe
[21:38:39] <PetefromTn_> ;D
[21:38:43] <zeeshan|2> rofl tom
[21:38:47] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: do it!
[21:39:06] <PetefromTn_> He asked me to think it over and let him know in a day or two and what hours I could work etc. etc.
[21:39:44] <PetefromTn_> I could sure use some Tig work to get back into the swing of it... I love tig welding
[21:40:13] <zeeshan|2> i hate it
[21:40:15] <CaptHindsight> did you ask him about benefits and profit sharing?
[21:40:16] -!- nofxx [nofxx!~nofxx@unaffiliated/nofxx] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:40:17] <zeeshan|2> but it made me money today
[21:40:18] <zeeshan|2> :D
[21:40:57] <PetefromTn_> I just fabricated a big swinging door for that pig roaster I made awhile back. It had a sliding aperture and spring handles etc etc.
[21:41:07] <PetefromTn_> that is the last tig job I did and it was nothing earth shattering
[21:41:13] <CaptHindsight> benefits: you get a job, profit sharing: you get paid
[21:41:15] <PetefromTn_> but again it made me some cash
[21:41:43] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight We did not even discuss money yet he wanted to know if I was even interested...
[21:41:56] <CaptHindsight> I knw, just kidding
[21:42:45] <Tom_itx> now go talk to his competetion and see if they need a fabricator...
[21:42:54] <zeeshan|2> you guys are funny
[21:42:56] <zeeshan|2> leave pete alone :P
[21:43:00] <CaptHindsight> what kind of a racing shop?
[21:43:07] <Tom_itx> nothing better to do atm
[21:43:08] <Tom_itx> sry
[21:43:10] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:43:16] <zeeshan|2> do you guys have the day off there?
[21:43:19] <zeeshan|2> long weekend
[21:43:23] <Tom_itx> i think he know's i'm kidding
[21:43:36] <PetefromTn_> honestly If the pay is there and they can work around my kids schedule I would welcome the job I think....
[21:43:38] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: youre a master troll like me and jdh
[21:43:49] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: nothing beats a steady pay cheque
[21:43:51] <zeeshan|2> and then come home
[21:43:55] <zeeshan|2> and do your own side business
[21:43:59] <zeeshan|2> its good way to make $$$$$$$
[21:44:08] <Tom_itx> he's just trying to figure out a way to stay busy so he doesn't have to fix his tool changer
[21:44:13] <zeeshan|2> it gets tiring sometimes, but hey you can always say no to some jobs
[21:44:18] <zeeshan|2> hahahaha
[21:44:26] <PetefromTn_> well if they let me drop off my kids at like 7:45 AM and work until I gotta pick them up around 3pm I would be in heaven LOL
[21:44:38] <zeeshan|2> i think those are fair hours
[21:44:45] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx Never gonna live that down huh
[21:44:53] <Tom_itx> nope
[21:45:00] <Tom_itx> well maybe..
[21:45:21] <PetefromTn_> I'm so screwed and I am not sure I can do it so I put it off all the time...
[21:45:35] <PetefromTn_> Would rather work on the CNC lathe and get it going first LOL
[21:46:04] -!- Tecan has quit [Quit: Live Long And Phosphor!]
[21:46:22] <Tom_itx> seems andy's comp was put on hold for a bit
[21:49:33] <Tom_itx> if i were closer i'd help get it goin
[21:49:38] -!- chillly has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[21:49:45] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I know you would man
[21:50:51] -!- patrickarlt has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[21:50:54] <Tom_itx> but since i'm not i'll just harass you until you do
[21:51:21] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDYwMA==/z/pCcAAOSwT6pVsqKs/$_27.JPG
[21:51:28] <zeeshan|2> is that 246 block in the back fucked
[21:51:34] <zeeshan|2> it looks like its been filed down??
[21:51:48] <Tom_itx> the middle one doesn't look so hot
[21:52:16] <Tom_itx> the flats are probably still ok
[21:52:21] <PetefromTn_> Good lord I am reviewing the papers from my daughters first day at school here....
[21:52:50] <Simonious> in cambam, I've got the machine drilling a series of holes I intend to use for fixturing - after the holes and before the tool change, what's the correct way to get the tool out of the way so I can screw down the part.
[21:53:01] <PetefromTn_> You would not believe how freaking ANAL this teachers rules are....I mean this is like a ten page description about what you can and cannot do in class..
[21:53:14] <Tom_itx> Simonious, G28 Z0
[21:53:20] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: GOOD!
[21:53:20] <PetefromTn_> ^^
[21:53:33] <zeeshan|2> G28 X0
[21:53:34] <zeeshan|2> !
[21:53:36] <Tom_itx> Simonious, and maybe G28 Y0 if you want the table where you can reach it
[21:53:52] <PetefromTn_> How is that good?
[21:53:56] <furrywolf> "The active material of a storage battery possesses the same 'get-away' characteristics as a convict. It is always striving to break away from the grid and assume the new name 'Sediment' in the bottom of the jar. Imagine anyone trying to incarcerate a convict by placing him in an open window and telling him to remain there! Yet that is what is expected if the active material that is pasted into the interstices of the grids." lol
[21:54:04] <Simonious> and how do I insert that between the toolchange?
[21:54:23] <Tom_itx> by hand unless you can figure out cambam's post
[21:54:24] <PetefromTn_> you need to setup your cam post to do it after every toolchane
[21:54:34] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: gets he prepared for real life
[21:54:40] * Simonious nods
[21:54:49] <PetefromTn_> BS
[21:54:52] <Tom_itx> note you want them on separate lines
[21:55:00] <Tom_itx> or they will both move at once which will be bad
[21:57:01] <PetefromTn_> Group work: After receiving directions for any group work you will have 15 seconds to move to work with your parter or group, I will count backwards from 15-1 when I get to one you should be where you need to be. if you are NOT where you need to be when I finish counting, then you will go back to your seat and work alone
[21:57:05] <Simonious> Tom_itx: YES! I am well aware of tool drag!
[21:57:24] <Tom_itx> how did you learn that valueable lesson?
[21:57:27] <PetefromTn_> WTF??^^^
[21:57:27] <Simonious> what is the gcode for a move, rather than a 'HOME'?
[21:57:46] <Tom_itx> G0 is rapid G1 is linear
[21:57:53] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: dicipline
[21:57:59] <zeeshan|2> sounds about right to me
[21:58:01] <PetefromTn_> FASCISM
[21:58:07] <Tom_itx> N141 G49 G28 Z0
[21:58:08] <Tom_itx> N142 G28 Y0
[21:58:14] <Tom_itx> typical end of my programs
[21:58:18] <Simonious> is G0 relative or absolute?
[21:58:24] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:58:28] <Simonious> (or G1) damn
[21:58:40] <Tom_itx> depends on G90 G91 iirc
[21:58:47] * Simonious sighs
[21:59:18] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#sec:G90-G91
[21:59:24] <Tom_itx> eys
[21:59:26] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:59:46] <Simonious> so lets recap
[21:59:47] <Tom_itx> G91 is relative
[21:59:52] <Simonious> g91
[21:59:52] <Tom_itx> G90 is absolute
[21:59:58] <Simonious> g0 z1
[22:00:03] <Simonious> g0 z25
[22:00:08] <Tom_itx> i use G90
[22:00:21] <Tom_itx> seems safer to me
[22:00:23] <Simonious> will move up 1 in z and 25 up in y from my starting position?
[22:00:27] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@c211-30-128-202.blktn6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:00:29] <PetefromTn_> I would love to sit down with this teacher and read thru this drivel and look her in the eye and say are you serious???? What are we dealing with here kindergartners that have to be policed in everything they do?
[22:00:40] <Simonious> err *y25
[22:00:54] <Tom_itx> yes
[22:00:57] <Tom_itx> but
[22:01:08] <Tom_itx> i'd use G90 for absolute movement from the current position
[22:01:11] <Simonious> but.. I need to return it to relative mode before allowing the cut to continue?
[22:01:23] <Tom_itx> depends on how you program
[22:01:29] <Tom_itx> i use G90 most of the time
[22:02:02] <zeeshan|2> when in doubt
[22:02:07] <ganzuul> PetefromTn_: "Is this kindergarten really so dagerous that you need all these rules?" ;)
[22:02:08] <zeeshan|2> g01 x 1 y 2 y 3
[22:02:10] <zeeshan|2> z
[22:02:11] <zeeshan|2> !
[22:02:14] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: lol
[22:02:27] <PetefromTn_> exactly... I mean really??
[22:03:01] <Tom_itx> Simonious it also somewhat depends whether you're using fixture offsets like G54
[22:03:07] <furrywolf> I wouldn't have put up with a teacher like that.
[22:03:11] <furrywolf> Tell your kids not to either.
[22:03:32] <PetefromTn_> Sounds like someone needs to chill the hell out if you ask me...Either that or they are covering their ass completely and totally for any eventuality of presumed disobedience or undesired behaviour
[22:03:47] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf I know right
[22:03:55] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, or suits?
[22:04:07] <furrywolf> Tell your kids to start counting backwards from 15 every time she goes to get out a supply or write something on the blackboard.
[22:04:41] <PetefromTn_> I'll start counting from 15 back to zero before I give her a swift kick in her fat ass LOL
[22:05:23] <PetefromTn_> Oh and another thing that pisses me off...
[22:05:34] * Tom_itx gives PetefromTn_ a soapbox
[22:05:36] <PetefromTn_> they send out this necessary supplies list that is a half mile long
[22:05:43] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: i find this funny
[22:05:46] <zeeshan|2> i thought you were in the coast guard
[22:05:52] <zeeshan|2> you lack dicipline !
[22:05:55] -!- gonzo_nb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[22:05:56] <PetefromTn_> and we go out and buy all of that stuff
[22:06:07] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3_DPW8hKTI
[22:06:09] <zeeshan|2> !
[22:06:10] <PetefromTn_> then she goes to school today and EACH teacher has ANOTHER DAMN LIST
[22:06:18] <Tom_itx> you mean all the crap the school district USED to supply???
[22:06:22] <zeeshan|2> when im a prof
[22:06:25] <zeeshan|2> im gonna give this speech
[22:06:53] <PetefromTn_> that is what I see when I read this ladies BS syllabus
[22:06:57] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, it's all a result of improper use of district funds
[22:07:03] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx exactly man..
[22:07:25] <Tom_itx> and the burden is put on the teachers
[22:07:28] <PetefromTn_> I mean I don't mind buying the stuff they need
[22:07:40] <Tom_itx> which in turn pass it along to you
[22:07:45] <PetefromTn_> but jeez get your shit together so I don't have to do it TWICE!!
[22:08:03] <Tom_itx> no, that's just a good govt employee is what that is
[22:08:34] <furrywolf> What grade/class is this? Isn't it a bit early for school to be starting?
[22:08:48] <Tom_itx> not really
[22:08:55] <PetefromTn_> ya know it's funny too because she got a syllabus/expectation sheet from EVERY one of her teachers and this one that was really annoying is the ONLY one that is ten pages long...the rest are a page or two.
[22:09:31] <PetefromTn_> I got a Damn headache just reading that frackin' drivel
[22:09:52] <CaptHindsight> KG and 1st grade attract the crazy controlling types, they want to be in the kids heads first to break their spirits
[22:10:09] <PetefromTn_> this is eighth grade but still....
[22:10:41] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Yeah man they think they are the damn Nazi Horsewhisperers or something LOL
[22:10:55] <furrywolf> Is this a school large enough to have multiple classes for the same grade, that she could be moved between?
[22:11:00] <Tom_itx> school them yourself
[22:11:18] <PetefromTn_> How much you want to bet I wind up in a nice impromptu meeting with this one at some point LOL...
[22:11:27] <Tom_itx> no bets from me
[22:11:36] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx I have considered it many times man...
[22:11:52] <Tom_itx> they turn out 2x smarter
[22:11:56] <PetefromTn_> If I was not trying to build a business AND refinish my house all at the same time I might just do that.
[22:12:00] <CaptHindsight> "and here's a quarter to take a bus downtown and get a rat to gnaw that thing off your face"
[22:12:12] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight CLASSIC!!
[22:12:17] <PetefromTn_> Uncle Buck!!
[22:12:20] <PetefromTn_> Love that guy...
[22:12:23] <furrywolf> write up your own expectations sheet and send it with her tomorrow. "I expect my daughter will be provided a top-notch education. The teacher shall be required to provide intellectual discussion on any subject mentioned in the class. The teacher shall respect the human rights of students and treat them with respect and fairness." etc.
[22:12:33] <Tom_itx> my kid went to take a 3 hr entrance exam and took him maybe 30 min with a 98% score
[22:12:47] <PetefromTn_> LOL hehehe
[22:13:10] <PetefromTn_> Sorry for the vent guys but it seems like there is one of these jackholes every year....
[22:13:11] <furrywolf> see, I was the asshole brat that always did things like that. :P
[22:13:13] <Tom_itx> we thought something was horribly wrong when we went to get him and found him siting in the lobby by himself
[22:13:38] <Tom_itx> so now he's enrolled in CATIA classes
[22:13:50] <furrywolf> CATIA?
[22:14:03] <Tom_itx> i'd have gone with solidworks and mastercam but all the plants use CATIA here
[22:14:08] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, cad cam
[22:14:11] <Tom_itx> err.. cad
[22:14:38] -!- syyl_ has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
[22:14:39] <Tom_itx> this is just a suppliment before his actual college
[22:15:20] <Tom_itx> http://www.3ds.com/products-services/catia
[22:15:30] <furrywolf> heh, I flunked a physics class back in college because I wrote a report on why the expiremental method and analysis method promulagted by the professor were utter bunk, complete with statistics showing how you'd get the "right" answer if you used his method no matter how flawed the expirement was. Royally pissed him off.
[22:15:39] -!- PCW has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[22:16:07] -!- PCW [PCW!~chatzilla@99.88.10.65] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:16:40] <PetefromTn_> Oh and WTF do my kids need DRY ERASE MARKERS for in class?
[22:16:44] <Tom_itx> incidentally i ran across this while looking at it: https://grabcad.com/library/software/catia
[22:17:04] <furrywolf> As a random guess, the classroom has a dry erase board... and the teacher/school is too cheap to provide markers for it.
[22:17:05] <Tom_itx> some cool models in there
[22:17:22] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf EXACTLY!!
[22:17:41] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: hopefully their class is better than their website.
[22:17:42] <CaptHindsight> I never got the TI calculators
[22:18:09] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, i looked at it and actually liked things about it better than solidworks
[22:18:21] <PetefromTn_> I spent over 150 bucks the other day on supplies and from the looks of this I will be dumping probably another hundred to get all the crap they need for one year of elementary school
[22:18:38] <CaptHindsight> do you have to pay for books as well?
[22:18:39] <PetefromTn_> Oh thats another thing...I bought her a nice brand new TI calculator last year..
[22:18:49] <PetefromTn_> and she still has it hardly got used.
[22:19:00] <PetefromTn_> NOW they want you to buy a DIFFERENT TI calculator...
[22:19:07] <PetefromTn_> WTF?
[22:19:10] <furrywolf> just buy her a ti-89 with all the features (extra flash, etc). that should get her through the first year of calculus.
[22:19:11] <CaptHindsight> yeah they hardly use them, heh
[22:19:34] <furrywolf> there's absolutely no reason to get any of the less-featured models.
[22:19:38] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf No you see they spec a certain caluclator for last year
[22:19:47] <PetefromTn_> now they changed that spec to a different one....
[22:20:02] <PetefromTn_> I have two Ti 89 plus's here I use
[22:20:17] <CaptHindsight> then the math is old and you need the newer model, the numbers get stale or something
[22:20:17] <PetefromTn_> I could give her one of those but apparently the one they need is different
[22:20:18] <furrywolf> I would assume it's an "or better". I think every model up to the TI-89 does everything the lower-numbered models do, plus more.
[22:20:42] <PetefromTn_> apparently the new one is a full featured graphing one..
[22:21:04] <furrywolf> isn't that what the 89 is? lol
[22:21:30] <PetefromTn_> thats what I thought it was....
[22:21:36] <CaptHindsight> has she/he learned how to make Linuxcnc install thumb drives and cd's yet?
[22:21:45] <PetefromTn_> but I don't really know I have not investigated all the damn TI line of calculators
[22:21:48] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, this might give you a better overview of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRrf1hvBBI8
[22:21:55] <CaptHindsight> those are fun to leave in the school parking lots
[22:22:02] <furrywolf> look at what your local college wants for 2nd year calculus, and buy her that. :P
[22:22:04] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Hell I don't even know how to do that ;)
[22:23:01] <furrywolf> ... 26 minutes? fuck that!
[22:23:05] <PetefromTn_> this is from the math teacher: We will be using the technology available to your students on a daily basis This means Ipads, and/or your students smartphone???
[22:23:26] <furrywolf> also... wtf? has youtube gotten more broken since last night?
[22:23:56] <Tom_itx> i found it interesting
[22:23:57] <PetefromTn_> they will have accounts for LearnZillion, Google Classroom, and Classdojo....
[22:24:09] <furrywolf> or did it just not load right this time for some reason? the interface bar is twice as high, and transparent, so you can't see any of the controls over the video?
[22:24:12] <Tom_itx> as a comparison to solidworks
[22:24:19] <PetefromTn_> what if my child cannot afford a damn smartphone or ipad?
[22:24:49] <PetefromTn_> she actually does have a smartphone...
[22:24:58] <PetefromTn_> and a tablet LOL
[22:25:12] <PetefromTn_> but what if I was a poor bastard and could not afford it?
[22:25:22] <PetefromTn_> who am I kidding...I AM a poor bastard LOL
[22:25:23] <Tom_itx> obama would see to it..
[22:25:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah right
[22:26:11] <PetefromTn_> I'm just saying this is a bit much dont you think?
[22:26:15] <CaptHindsight> since half the instruction is online can they stay home and work from there half the time?
[22:26:57] <PetefromTn_> I think the teachers union has a deal with the makers of Glue sticks or something...
[22:27:24] <CaptHindsight> it's about making you blood filled meatsack remain within their walls for the required number of minutes per day
[22:27:27] <PetefromTn_> every class apparently needs a set LOL
[22:27:42] <CaptHindsight> and teaching to the tests
[22:28:00] <CaptHindsight> memorize and regurgitate
[22:28:04] <PetefromTn_> disgusting isn't it...
[22:28:11] <furrywolf> just make sure your daughter is informed she does not need to put up with crap from the teacher.
[22:28:14] <PetefromTn_> we are so screwed...
[22:28:21] <CaptHindsight> glad it's all behind me
[22:28:30] <furrywolf> there's a certain percentage of teachers who get off on forcing students to put up with crap.
[22:28:47] <CaptHindsight> state mandated babysitters
[22:28:48] <furrywolf> I can make you do what I want when I want it!
[22:28:50] <furrywolf> don't put up with it.
[22:29:39] <PetefromTn_> You don't really have a choice if you want to attend and not home school...it seems
[22:30:23] <furrywolf> Sure you have a choice. I'd love to see a teacher try expelling a student for taking 30 seconds to sit down with a group. :P
[22:31:12] <PetefromTn_> aah nonviolent protestation...beauty!
[22:32:08] <furrywolf> it's especially good if she can convince other students in the class to also not put up with it.
[22:32:30] * furrywolf got in a lot of trouble for doing things like that. seems teachers don't appreciate students unionizing. :P
[22:32:43] <PetefromTn_> reminds me of a professor we had in florida when I was in school...he had visited Japan and China a lot and basically thought all americans were heathen barbarians and made you feel like it was true in basically everything he did...
[22:33:08] <PetefromTn_> we made his life a living hell for a semester ;)
[22:34:00] <PetefromTn_> as I recall we also picked up his little toyota and popped it between a couple stanchion tubes in the parking lot with JUST enough room to make it possible to lift it back out but not drive it out..
[22:34:05] <furrywolf> I wanted to be a teacher, but I quit after a year of student teaching. there is way too much politics, money, and idiots involved with teaching.
[22:35:43] <furrywolf> the last straw was when the department dictated that we were to adjust our grading systems such that any student who turned in more than one homework assignment late must fail the class, regardless of exam scores - and they should pass if they did all their homework, regardless of exam scores.
[22:35:54] <ganzuul> ...So Acme was already taken, someone named their company Climax.
[22:36:14] <PetefromTn_> heh
[22:36:43] <furrywolf> I told him to go screw himself, in about as many words. Somehow they "decided not to renew my employment" :P
[22:37:02] <PetefromTn_> the shit they pull ;)
[22:37:38] <furrywolf> the goal of the school was to make sure students turned into good little robots who did their homework on time, and graduate them whether or not they actually had any understanding of the material.
[22:38:06] <PetefromTn_> isn't that the goal of ALL of our schools?
[22:38:13] <furrywolf> no!
[22:38:38] <furrywolf> well, these days it probably is.
[22:38:40] <furrywolf> this was a while ago. :P
[22:40:01] <furrywolf> a friend of mine is started a charter school... he's hoping to be ready to at least teach a couple afternoon classes this fall, since I don't think he has a full set of teachers lined up yet... if he weren't teaching little kids, I'd go sign up. heh.
[22:40:18] <furrywolf> I'm only interested in teaching high school or college.
[22:40:35] <furrywolf> brb, need to go meet someone to get something off craigslist
[22:40:37] <PetefromTn_> OMG you are gonna shape the minds of our future!!
[22:40:54] <PetefromTn_> Please don't tell them about buttplugs and stuff....;0
[22:41:04] <furrywolf> I showed up to teach not once, but TWICE, wearing furry ears and a tail. :P
[22:41:04] <furrywolf> bbk
[22:41:05] <furrywolf> bbl
[22:41:11] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[22:42:46] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/o4fWBHK.jpg hehe
[22:43:44] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: The mill and lathe are both moving like a champ using the 6i25 and the G540s. Thanks for your help and for publishing the configs
[22:43:59] <PetefromTn_> awesome!!
[22:44:17] <PetefromTn_> how does the 6i25 plug into the G540?
[22:44:51] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Normal 5 pin cable. Same as a printer port connection
[22:44:55] <os1r1s> 25 pin
[22:45:10] <PetefromTn_> and nothing else...SWEET
[22:45:25] <os1r1s> Yep
[22:45:41] <os1r1s> I have a mill on one of the ports, and a lathe on the other.
[22:45:51] <PetefromTn_> why?
[22:46:18] <os1r1s> It controls X/Y/Z + coolant relay + spindle relay + spindle pwm + x/y/z/probe inputs.
[22:46:37] <os1r1s> I use one machine to connect to both. So I ran one cable to one, and a second to the other.
[22:47:10] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, good stuff..
[22:47:35] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Which mesa are you using?
[22:47:47] <Tom_itx> 7i90 / 7i47S
[22:48:15] <Tom_itx> got a couple sserial cards to test
[22:48:51] <Tom_itx> not currently using them
[22:49:25] -!- FinboySlick has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[22:49:42] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: I need to add more inputs/outputs for the tool changer. So I'm tempted to add a 7i76 to the mill controller. Either that or a simple breakout board to one of the LPT ports. Any simple breakout boards you would recommend?
[22:50:04] <Tom_itx> why not sserial?
[22:50:11] <Tom_itx> 7i84 iirc
[22:50:46] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Let me look
[22:52:09] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: I would need a 7i76 to get the smart serial *I think*.
[22:52:38] <Tom_itx> you just have the 6i25?
[22:52:50] <Tom_itx> you would need something with rs422
[22:52:55] <Tom_itx> differential serial
[22:52:59] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@megumi.opennet-initiative.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:53:11] <Tom_itx> the 7i47 fills that requirement
[22:53:13] <Tom_itx> for me
[22:54:40] <os1r1s> The 7i76 should be able to plug into the 6i25, interface with the G540, and add 48 io ports
[22:55:05] <Tom_itx> go with that then if it meets all your other requirements
[22:56:02] <os1r1s> I think so. I'm debating between that and a like a CNC4PC M34 board.
[22:56:28] <Tom_itx> pfft, go all mesa
[22:56:48] <Tom_itx> you know it will work
[22:56:52] <os1r1s> :)
[22:57:27] <Tom_itx> i got a cnc4pc board to work ok though
[22:57:37] <Tom_itx> others debated if it would
[22:57:52] <os1r1s> I slowed mine down a bit vs your settings. I figure moving at 40ipm and homing at 25ipm was good enough
[22:58:00] <furrywolf> I'm hoping the stepper box from my sherline plugs right into mesa's ethernet adapter board.
[22:59:52] <os1r1s> furrywolf: An official sherline controller?
[23:00:08] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, that would somewhat depend on your stepper supply
[23:00:09] <furrywolf> flashcut
[23:00:20] <Tom_itx> i'm running 48v on mine
[23:00:36] <furrywolf> it has the flashcut box which has a 25 pin cable to the drive box.
[23:00:46] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Mine is 48v, 320w
[23:01:27] <os1r1s> It was moving at 90 IPM with no problem, but I got the impression it would trash the leadscrews. Have you been running your that way for a long time?
[23:01:45] <furrywolf> more oil.
[23:01:55] <Tom_itx> just because mine will doesn't mean i do all the time
[23:02:18] <Tom_itx> i keep the rapids up there
[23:02:34] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[23:02:34] -!- jthornton has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[23:03:00] <furrywolf> I have my shoptask set to 1.3in/second (78ipm). if I go up to 1.5 the unbalanced handwheels make it start walking around.
[23:03:10] <furrywolf> I start losing steps around 1.7in/sec.
[23:03:13] -!- jthornton [jthornton!~john@184.21.194.58] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:03:14] <os1r1s> Ok. Honestly I don't think I've seen it move that quick. I'd tried that in mach3 and it wasn't even close to this.
[23:03:31] <Tom_itx> seems a trend
[23:03:37] -!- JT-Shop [JT-Shop!~john@184.21.194.58] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:03:47] <furrywolf> I currently have a 54V supply for my steppers, going to up it to 65V. (bought a higher voltage transformer, haven't gotten it yet)
[23:04:03] <furrywolf> figure 65V is a good safe number for my 75V capacitors...
[23:04:29] <Tom_itx> i got mine surplus is why it is what it is
[23:04:39] <os1r1s> I know folks crap on mach3, but now I can see a staggering difference.
[23:05:28] <furrywolf> anyone here in the bay area? go help pcw assemble mesa boards. :P
[23:06:05] <Tom_itx> i might enjoy that if it weren't in Ca
[23:06:38] <furrywolf> they're out of stock of the one I need, and their minions went awol so they can't make more...
[23:06:50] <Tom_itx> yeah i know
[23:08:29] <furrywolf> random question: how many pins, per access, should I plan on as a maximum for limit/home switches? six? (three switches if I run separate circuits for each)
[23:08:33] <furrywolf> per axis
[23:08:38] * furrywolf is too tired to write, apparantly
[23:08:57] <Tom_itx> i use 1 z 1 y 2 x
[23:09:04] <Tom_itx> and soft limits on the rest
[23:09:15] <furrywolf> I was going to use 6-pin molex connectors, but then I remembered how much I hate molex connectors.
[23:09:46] <furrywolf> just deciding how many pins the connectors I order should have...
[23:09:52] <Tom_itx> din
[23:09:57] <Tom_itx> are ok
[23:10:16] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-Aviation-Plug-Male-Female-Wire-Panel-Metal-Connector-16mm-6-pin-GX16-6-M62-/111731312456 is what I'm currently looking at.
[23:10:21] <furrywolf> I want locking of some form.
[23:10:30] <Tom_itx> mine screw together
[23:10:34] <Tom_itx> for my steppers etc
[23:11:04] <furrywolf> yeah, I got some chinese "military" 1/3-turn locking connectors for my steppers
[23:11:32] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control7.jpg
[23:11:49] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Military-Gold-4-Pin-Twist-Male-Female-Connector-4PM-/181594058229 those
[23:12:24] <furrywolf> shiny pendant. make it work! :P
[23:12:35] <Tom_itx> it mostly does
[23:12:52] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-5-pin-male-locking-DIN-connector-Ship-free-in-USA-/201192223560?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed7fdb348
[23:12:58] <furrywolf> I want to make a pendant with three knobs on it, arranged like the handles on the mill. at $17/knob, it's not too horrible...
[23:13:05] <Tom_itx> they come in 2 - 8 conductor
[23:13:30] <Tom_itx> rotary knobs?
[23:13:38] <Tom_itx> you can get them cheaper from DK iirc
[23:13:49] <furrywolf> DK?
[23:13:59] <Tom_itx> digikey
[23:14:22] <Tom_itx> or mouser
[23:14:51] <furrywolf> those ones you pasted look very similar to the ones I pasted, http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-Aviation-Plug-Male-Female-Wire-Panel-Metal-Connector-16mm-6-pin-GX16-6-M62-/111731312456
[23:14:59] <furrywolf> hrmm, $17 was the cheapest I found when I looked.
[23:15:01] <Tom_itx> they come with inserts to limit the pinouts
[23:15:05] <furrywolf> and that was for straight-from-china.
[23:16:05] <Tom_itx> not aviation for sure
[23:16:07] <Tom_itx> din
[23:16:14] <furrywolf> but, a pendant is a long-ways-off plan.
[23:16:33] <Tom_itx> you can get a MPG for $17
[23:17:07] <furrywolf> yes
[23:17:14] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/100PPR-6-Terminal-Eletronic-Hand-Wheel-Manual-Pulse-Encoder-Generator-CNC-Lathe-/251710166569?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a9b185629
[23:18:08] <furrywolf> yes, that looks like the $17 ones I found too. :P
[23:18:26] <Tom_itx> exact same one as the ones selling for 3x as much
[23:19:12] <Tom_itx> http://www.pmdx.com/MPG-01
[23:19:30] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[23:19:40] <furrywolf> yes. As I said, the $17 ones were the cheapest I could find when I looked.
[23:21:51] <furrywolf> did you find them cheaper on digikey?
[23:22:40] <Tom_itx> which?
[23:22:55] <furrywolf> <Tom_itx> you can get them cheaper from DK iirc
[23:22:55] <Tom_itx> i was talking about the rotary switches i used
[23:23:08] <Tom_itx> for X Y Z A
[23:23:11] <furrywolf> oh. I was talking about the mpg knobs.
[23:23:21] <Tom_itx> no, that's about it
[23:23:42] <furrywolf> I want to get three of them, and arrange them like a little mini mill, so you can twiddle them and the big mill moves to match.
[23:24:14] <Tom_itx> why not use an X Y Z switch like most mills do?
[23:24:28] <Tom_itx> even Fanuc controls do that
[23:24:30] <furrywolf> because shiny!
[23:24:38] <furrywolf> no real reason, I was just thinking it would be cool. heh.
[23:24:43] <Tom_itx> waste of money you don't already have
[23:24:47] <PetefromTn_> who the hell has handwheels on a milling machine that is CNC hehe
[23:25:04] <Tom_itx> it's a cool factor
[23:25:24] <furrywolf> mpg pendant is way, way down on the list of projects.
[23:25:26] <Tom_itx> i can dial in the offsets alot quicker for sure
[23:25:55] <Tom_itx> manually drill setup holes etc if i need to
[23:25:55] <PetefromTn_> what do you need an MPG pendant for?
[23:26:03] <Tom_itx> ^^
[23:26:20] <SpeedEvil> For extra cool-points - add force-feedback to the knobs
[23:26:28] <furrywolf> lol
[23:26:34] <furrywolf> that's hard with steppers. much easier with servos.
[23:26:44] * Tom_itx thinks SpeedEvil plays too many video games
[23:27:24] * SpeedEvil thinks.
[23:27:35] <SpeedEvil> Unless IRC counts, no.
[23:27:51] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe an hour of angry birds a month
[23:28:01] <PetefromTn_> ANGRY BIRDS!!!!
[23:28:20] <Valen> I have been meaning to get a wireless xbox controller hooked up as the pendant for our mill for ages
[23:29:13] <PetefromTn_> There are quite a few already implemented nice ones for reasonable prices it is not worth the trouble methinks...
[23:29:46] <os1r1s> I have the HB04 wireless one hooked up which works ok
[23:29:47] <Valen> people have hooked it all up before, its pretty much a follow the recipe deal
[23:29:56] <furrywolf> ... wtf. the local firefighters are asking for FOOD DONATIONS. for the firefighters. at the fire. I guess there must be a logistics issue happening somewhere.
[23:30:09] <Valen> furrywolf: where are you again?
[23:30:09] <PCW> 7I76e's are being built it just takes a while
[23:30:16] <furrywolf> Valen: far northern california
[23:30:24] <PetefromTn_> Firefighters kick ass and deserve whatever help they can get...
[23:30:30] <furrywolf> we're having a bunch of wildfires right now, where "bunch" is defined as "about 150"...
[23:30:32] <Valen> ahh, we are having an out of season fire here (sydney australia)
[23:30:38] <Valen> near the city
[23:30:53] <furrywolf> currently about 150,000 acres on fire within two hours of here
[23:31:04] <SpeedEvil> What food would be best for firefighters? Smores?
[23:31:07] <Tom_itx> don't they purposely burn the cane fields?
[23:31:12] -!- AR_ [AR_!~AR@24.238.81.234.res-cmts.sth2.ptd.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:31:12] <PetefromTn_> I was a firefighter for awhile and of course Coast Guardsmen are all trained in shipboard firefighting...
[23:31:19] <Valen> SpeedEvil: rofl
[23:31:45] <Valen> I have been thinking about doing RFS (rural fire service) volunteer here
[23:31:45] <os1r1s> PCW: Not sure if it would help, but a friend has a full PCB assembly shop in East Tennessee.
[23:31:48] <furrywolf> "Alderpoint fire crews specifically are in need of nonperishable food donations"... I can only imagine there's some supply chain issue there. a bad one. heh.
[23:32:06] <os1r1s> PCW: And he does runs for other folks
[23:32:08] <PetefromTn_> I'm thinking Icewater and maybe some beef jerky that they can carry with them?
[23:32:18] <PCW> nah its kitting thats the problem
[23:32:21] <Valen> I would do SES (state emergency service) but those guys always wind up dealing with storm damage, and I hate getting rained on
[23:32:26] <furrywolf> PCW: I'm trying to find you more minions...
[23:32:33] <PetefromTn_> where in East Tennessee?
[23:32:56] <Valen> PetefromTn_: they probably want food food, tins of beans and the like, they will use them at rally points
[23:33:06] <PetefromTn_> sure
[23:33:31] <PetefromTn_> but I just keep seeing a firefighter Snappin' into a slim jim and getting all rowdy roddy piper on the fire LOL
[23:33:54] <furrywolf> I could put together a pretty big box of expired cans... aka my emergency food.
[23:33:54] <furrywolf> see, I'm not lazy! they're a FEATURE!
[23:33:56] <os1r1s> PCW: South Pittsburg, TN
[23:33:59] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: ^
[23:34:18] <PetefromTn_> huh..
[23:35:01] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: I go out and visit him every once in a while
[23:35:15] <PetefromTn_> are you in Tn?
[23:35:37] <os1r1s> I'm in Olive Branch, MS, which is a suburb of Memphis.
[23:37:18] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/tls/5155141885.html anyone CNC one of those yet? :P
[23:38:07] * furrywolf builds the world's slowest printer
[23:38:11] <JT-Shop> os1r1s, your not too far from me here in swamp east MO
[23:40:00] <os1r1s> JT-Shop: You are right by sikeston. I go to Lamberts every time I pass through there :)
[23:40:07] * furrywolf programs ssi's robot arm to work the linotype machine, then prints random documents on it
[23:40:15] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: how is your anodizing going?
[23:40:26] <JT-Shop> I'm in Poplar Bluff a bit west of Sikeston
[23:40:41] <JT-Shop> I'm on 67
[23:41:28] <PetefromTn_> tiwake Not bad man I am not doing much of it right now tho. I am working on some cast iron parts machining and Tig welding jobs presently. I am sure I will be doing more once I get some more 6061 or 7075 parts going around here.
[23:41:33] <jdh> I used to go to south pittsburgh all the time for fireworks
[23:41:40] -!- amiri has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[23:41:42] <os1r1s> Yep. Same neck of the woods.
[23:41:48] * Tom_itx thought JT-Shop lived in a swamp
[23:42:05] <JT-Shop> swamp near by in Mingo
[23:42:14] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: how is the anodizing color where you connect it to the power?
[23:42:24] <JT-Shop> they drained the swamp years ago... took two tries to get it done
[23:43:40] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you mean?
[23:44:02] <PetefromTn_> Gotta go to the store..BBL
[23:44:14] -!- PetefromTn_ has quit [Quit: I'm Outta here!!]
[23:50:29] -!- Akex_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]