#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-29

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[00:00:06] <andypugh> Just jog down to where you want the top of the job to be, then press the “touch off” button
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[00:00:27] <andypugh> (Actually, select Z before you press the touch-off button)
[00:00:35] <MacGyverX> Ah okay
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[00:00:56] <MacGyverX> But if wanted to do that from the pendant, the gcode above would work?
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[00:01:05] <andypugh> Yes.
[00:01:09] <MacGyverX> Epic.
[00:01:11] <MacGyverX> Thanks
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[01:05:28] <malcom2073> You know
[01:05:38] <malcom2073> For a light lathe, this 9c is freaking heavy.
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[01:17:58] <furrywolf> apparantly the hot day is negatively affecting the power grid here... just about every city has had at least one major outage today according to the local paper.
[01:18:56] <malcom2073> Unfortunate
[01:19:29] <furrywolf> surprising, since no one here has a/c.
[01:19:33] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: move to south africa if you want a properly dysfunctional power supply.
[01:19:44] <SpeedEvil> Fun problems.
[01:19:51] <SpeedEvil> In the 80s they built too many power plants.
[01:19:57] <furrywolf> but apparantly a transformer overheated in the hot sun and failed, that took out four cities, and they're still diagnosing the rest of the outages.
[01:20:05] <furrywolf> one was a fire, again probably heat related.
[01:20:08] <SpeedEvil> Aluminium smelters and crap moved in because they had really, really cheap power.
[01:20:30] <SpeedEvil> Now, they're running on bare bones trying to do live maintainance of power stations with rolling blackouts expected for years
[01:21:03] <furrywolf> south africa has a lot more wrong than just power availability.
[01:21:14] <furrywolf> race relations, for one.
[01:21:16] <malcom2073> Heh
[01:21:19] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: quite
[01:22:24] <SpeedEvil> Still has way less black people incarcerated than the USA
[01:22:35] <furrywolf> lol
[01:22:45] <SpeedEvil> (per capita)
[01:24:01] <SpeedEvil> Actually - that's not true - the rates (for black people) are about the same.
[01:56:59] <zeeshan> andypugh nice planing
[02:03:20] <malcom2073> Well I'm down to $1000 on my Southbend 9C, still no bites :/
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[02:08:49] <os1r1s> w00t. My mesa card finally got here
[02:12:28] <os1r1s> malcom2073: Looks like on ebay the Cs go for around 500
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[02:33:18] <tjtr33> andypugh, yes nice planing, but how much are you cranking in each time!? ( good jig btw)
[02:34:27] <zeeshan> tjtr33: hes gone
[02:34:29] <zeeshan> he left us :[
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[02:37:15] <tjtr33> domani, thx
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[03:32:56] <trentster> Guys, you think it would be a usefull / helpful idea if I added a GRBL —> LinuxCNC migration guide to the wiki?
[03:33:35] <trentster> So folks who have working arduino settings can easily understand how to replicate the settings they have once coming to LinuxCNC.
[03:34:21] <trentster> For e.g. on the Arduino type "$$" which will give you all your current working settings and tell you ok - this is how you transfer them to linuxcnc?
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[04:00:15] <furrywolf> put a new inverter in the other eu6500is, puts out over half power great, surges and backfires at low load. next step is to clean carb and adjust valves.
[04:04:58] <zeeshan> aluminum and steel
[04:05:06] <zeeshan> tried welding em tonight
[04:05:11] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2lYyMgi.jpg
[04:05:12] <zeeshan> :D
[04:05:29] <zeeshan> its safe to say it doesnt weld
[04:05:34] <zeeshan> or even "braze"
[04:09:38] <just_pink> zeeshan: I think just laser welding cad to it
[04:10:22] <just_pink> zeeshan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEQ0dL4R-rQ
[04:10:37] <zeeshan> just_pink: i know
[04:10:46] <os1r1s> Anyone know how I add a firmware or use a diff one than specified in the pncconf?
[04:10:47] <zeeshan> im using common brazing rod
[04:10:49] <zeeshan> not specialized rod
[04:11:09] <just_pink> on the vdeo thaey show how to do it with TIG
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[04:11:23] <furrywolf> isn't aluminum to steel one of those things already known not to work? :)
[04:12:14] <zeeshan> furrywolf: wanted tos ee for myself
[04:12:54] <just_pink> maybe you need to try to make a layer of brazing on the aluminum, and than layr on the steel and than t connct the to layers
[04:15:05] <furrywolf> you have to use zinc braze to stick to aluminum. you could probably use that as an intermediate step.
[04:26:06] <furrywolf> if I worked at google, I'd write some kind of filter that attempts to determine sites with original content, and any site that has content copied off a site with original content would vanish from search results. scrape ebay? gone. scrape wikipedia? gone. etc.
[04:26:34] <furrywolf> I'm trying to find a manual for a case vibratory compactor, and google is putting spam above useful results, as always.
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[05:07:44] <zeeshan> furrywolf: what do you need a compactor for
[05:08:24] <furrywolf> someone I know is levelling their property, and needs to compact fill dirt, then gravel.
[05:09:16] <furrywolf> we picked it up for $200. they said it had been sitting for 15 years and didn't work. we put a new battery in it. that's it. even came with a full tank of diesel!
[05:09:39] <furrywolf> works perfectly. asked the guy about it, turns out he just assumed it didn't work since no one used it.
[05:11:14] <furrywolf> we drove it onto the trailer at his house. lol
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[05:14:18] <furrywolf> http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/list.aspx?Manu=CASE&Mdltxt=W252 one of those
[05:15:18] <furrywolf> didn't even need ether to start it, despite sitting for so long.
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[05:21:44] <zeeshan> haha nice dude
[05:22:27] <furrywolf> he also had a backhoe for sale, about the same price and condition, but someone else got it. :(
[05:30:14] <zeeshan> wow
[05:30:17] <zeeshan> the things i could do with abackhoe
[05:30:29] <furrywolf> yeah, we need one too... but oh well.
[05:34:52] <furrywolf> was a really nice backhoe too.
[05:35:37] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
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[07:06:10] <Deejay> moin
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[10:08:14] <malcom2073> os1r1s: Yeah seems they've dropped to 1/3 of what they were going for a year ago.
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[10:17:19] <Sync_> meh now to fiddle with the servo to find the right parameters
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[10:36:03] <Sync_> pfft hauser does not provide any data at all
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[11:29:49] <fes> hi guys. when using Fanuc G10, shoudln't the X offset from the "chuck" be a positive value?
[11:30:40] <fes> I have some older training papers I am looking at and I have "G10 P0 X-146" when the starting position of the piece to work on is 146 from the chuck.
[11:31:33] <fes> It is embarrasing how much I have forgotten since I ended my education 18 months ago and haven't worked with it since then.
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[12:00:55] <Tom_itx> x offset is a negative value from Home
[12:01:25] <Tom_itx> (me thinks)
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[12:04:13] <fes> Ok. I thought adding positive value would change Z0 away from chuck and not "towards it".
[12:04:22] <fes> thanks for helping out btw, Tom_itx
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[12:21:36] <fes> Tom_itx, like in this example (http://i61.tinypic.com/2re40om.png) should it be "P0 Z-140" or "P0 Z140"?
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[12:22:51] <Tom_itx> my first guess would be -140
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[12:24:17] <Tom_itx> later..
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[14:06:21] <Sync_> fes: Z0 is on the face of the work
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[14:12:02] <fes> hi Sync_ !
[14:12:29] <fes> Yes, where it meets the working piece.
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[14:12:50] <Sync_> and increasing numbers means the work is getting bigger
[14:12:58] <Sync_> thus making the part smaller means negative numbers
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[14:14:47] <fes> Hm... (noobie shame hat on).
[14:15:58] <Sync_> that's regular machine nomenclature
[14:16:25] <fes> "G10 P0 Z0" would mean than Z0 is not offset while "G10 P0 Z-140" means that the piece starts 140mm from the chuck?
[14:17:35] <fes> I don't know if you call it "chuck" though. Sorry.
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[14:53:29] <Sync_> that will put the coordinate system 140mm towards to chuck
[14:53:34] <Sync_> or spindle
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[15:33:25] <archivist> hmm probe arrived.... seems 3 axis strain measurement http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271934477389
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[15:34:51] <JT-Shop> YEA my Bug be Gone socks showed up today... take that you chiggers
[15:36:25] <archivist> charging the camera battery to get a nude picture of the probe with the cover off
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[15:43:29] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: is year worse than most for ticks, chiggers, mosquitoes, etc? Seems that way up here.
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[15:54:15] <JT-Shop> I'm a chigger magnet... they love me. Not so bad for ticks or skeeters here
[15:55:30] <archivist> damn I want to take this thing to bits....but mustnt
[15:55:44] <archivist> want to explore
[15:56:34] <archivist> the movement sense does not seem to be strain gauges, but is 4 wire
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[16:02:39] <lair82> Hello guys, I must be missing the boat somewhere, but I cannot figure out how to get a man page opened up from the terminal, if I want the page for moveoff component, all I need to do is "man moveoff" on the command line, and it should come up correct?
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[16:03:19] <archivist> only if someone wrote a man page
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[16:04:08] <lair82> the man pages are in the man.9 directory, that's why I cannot figure out why it won't open
[16:04:38] <jdh> man -k moveoff ?
[16:05:12] <archivist> have you looked to wee if there is one under that name
[16:05:16] <archivist> see
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[16:09:49] <jthornton> lair82 the man pages are also in the HTML documents
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[16:25:04] <archivist> and does it exist in the version you are using
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[16:41:42] <lair82> I am using master, I see the sim configs when I start Linuxcnc
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[17:09:39] <lair82> jthornton, I went to the linuxcnc documents webpage, and I don't see the moveoff component listed at the bottom with the rest of the components.
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[17:10:37] <archivist> lair82, 2.7 and later
[17:11:38] <lair82> Where do I find that documentation
[17:12:15] <archivist> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/moveoff.html
[17:12:28] <archivist> google finds it and the manpage
[17:13:35] <zeeshan> how stable is 2.7?
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[17:14:30] <lair82> got it now, thanks archivist
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[17:16:27] <lair82> What am I doing wrong though trying to open them from the command line?
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[17:17:27] <archivist> the other day you were bisecting 2.6
[17:18:33] <pcw_home> I've had 2.7 running 24/7 for a long time (thousands of hours) with no issues( a long time but narrow application range, just running simple gcode over and over)
[17:19:41] <lair82> I am on my test pc in my office, running master, working on my files for my VMC that I am building, sorry for the confusion
[17:20:12] <PetefromTn_> which VMC?
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[17:20:29] <lair82> My Cincinnati Milacron 10VC-1000
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[17:21:03] <PetefromTn_> K
[17:21:32] <lair82> All cinci's, all the way Pete ;)
[17:21:54] <PetefromTn_> Hell Yeah!!
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[17:22:26] <lair82> Looks like a milacron showroom around our place
[17:23:10] <PetefromTn_> the more I learn about Cincinatti the more I realize they made LOTS of interesting and large commercial machines
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[17:23:48] <andypugh> And nice olde planers
[17:23:50] <lair82> My boss jokes, we are milacron north, with all the spare parts we have on hand, and machinery running, compared to the actual milacron in southern ohio/northern kentucky
[17:24:22] <andypugh> Brief company history here if it’s of interest: http://www.lathes.co.uk/cincinnati/
[17:25:08] <lair82> They made some very nice machinery back in the day, from what I can see. But i'm only 32, so that's not that far back, hehehe
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[17:26:47] <archivist> our old tool grinder may have been a 1900's cincinati
[17:27:59] <archivist> on a purpose built wooden table http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works/P1010214.JPG
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[17:35:49] <andypugh> archivist: I think you need more clutter :-)
[17:36:20] <archivist> that was in the clockworks basement
[17:36:42] <archivist> ex boss dug out under the tin tabernacle
[17:37:10] <archivist> iirc 60 tons of dug out
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[17:38:36] <Rab> I'm digging that green press/hammer thing, what is that?
[17:40:15] <archivist> only a small arbour press but with a wheel
[17:40:38] <archivist> we used to stamp numbers with them
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[17:41:03] <archivist> boring to use
[17:41:36] <archivist> for the full clutter in that place http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works/
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[17:42:09] <Rab> Does the wheel rotate the same direction through the workflow, or do you turn it backwards like a pull handle?
[17:43:23] <archivist> turn back and then violently forward hoping your finger is not in the wrong place
[17:43:44] <PetefromTn_> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works/P1010234.JPG WTH is that?
[17:44:23] <archivist> pinion cutting machine made by Kopfer
[17:44:40] <archivist> 1930's iirc
[17:44:52] <PetefromTn_> never seen anything like that before...
[17:45:11] <archivist> horrible heap, boss liked it though
[17:45:32] <archivist> cut 3 blans to get one good gear...sometimes
[17:45:37] <archivist> blanks
[17:46:06] <archivist> cutter is under the work
[17:47:18] <PetefromTn_> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works/P1010241.JPG ?
[17:47:39] <andypugh> Sandwich maker
[17:47:49] <zeeshan> haha
[17:48:00] <PetefromTn_> peanut butter or cold cuts?
[17:48:04] <archivist> a schaublin 70 lathe with gear cutting attachment
[17:48:23] <zeeshan> pcw_home: have you tried machining something with it?
[17:48:30] <archivist> the kopfer did a line in bosses finger rofl
[17:49:40] <andypugh> I am thinking that Schaublin didn’t make the index plate?
[17:50:06] <archivist> no that was made in the basement on the jig mill
[17:50:43] <archivist> it had the only worm dividing that was to any kind of spec
[17:51:25] <archivist> boley http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works/P1010207.JPG
[17:52:05] <jthornton> lair82, which docs are you looking in? I see it in 2.7 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/
[17:52:05] <archivist> partly a very nice tool and partly stupid
[17:53:48] <lair82> Yep, I just saw the little "here' link half way down the page referencing the 2.7 documentation. I kept clicking the "All Documentation in html" at the top, not correlating, that it was all, only for, 2.6.
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[18:00:16] <just_pink> thee is someone here from the US?
[18:01:28] <andypugh> Most of them
[18:01:43] <jthornton> taking a poll?
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[18:03:59] <PetefromTn_> quite a few
[18:05:05] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: after the dowel and tool table method
[18:05:16] <zeeshan> man machining parts is much quicker
[18:05:20] <zeeshan> just load the program and go
[18:05:33] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[18:05:34] <zeeshan> before i was dialing in tools for every job
[18:06:04] <PetefromTn_> OH you mean you are touching off once for all your tools now
[18:06:19] <PetefromTn_> yeah sure does make things go faster if you have enough tools
[18:06:31] <PetefromTn_> are you using cutter comp?
[18:07:11] <zeeshan> no cutter comp
[18:07:21] <zeeshan> no i dont even touch off my tools anymore
[18:07:29] <zeeshan> cause theres like 5-6 tools i use on a regular basis
[18:07:35] <zeeshan> like 3/8 end mill, face mill etc
[18:07:56] <zeeshan> i did have to dial in a drill bit
[18:08:03] <PetefromTn_> yeah I TRY to do that but most of the time I have to swap tools somewhere
[18:08:28] <zeeshan> but dialing in one tool is easy!!!
[18:08:35] <zeeshan> i also set it up so my basic tools are 1-10
[18:09:03] <zeeshan> then 11 to 16 are dedicated for drills
[18:09:22] <zeeshan> (so it lines up with cam)
[18:09:26] <PetefromTn_> I have been TRYING to make like all my endmills 1-20, drills 21-40, specialty tools 41-60 or something like that etc etc.
[18:09:47] <PetefromTn_> but the drills kind of kill all that as there are so many sizes
[18:10:05] <PetefromTn_> in the shops I worked in they generally just setup a program
[18:10:13] <PetefromTn_> then lay out the toolholders in order
[18:10:19] <PetefromTn_> and then number them accordingly
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[18:10:52] <zeeshan> hahah yea
[18:11:01] <PetefromTn_> they have hundreds of holders so keeping anything setup other than just the tool in the holder is not really practical or traceable
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[18:11:30] <zeeshan> by specialty tools you mean like a chamfer mill?
[18:11:32] <zeeshan> for example
[18:11:37] <zeeshan> or tap
[18:11:52] <PetefromTn_> yeah champfer mills, tee slot cutters, etc etc.
[18:12:30] <PetefromTn_> most programs use the same basic ten tools or so tho so yeah for most things it works fine...
[18:14:05] <PetefromTn_> its incredible how much internal mics go for as well as their standards....crazy
[18:14:19] <zeeshan> i just sold one
[18:14:21] <zeeshan> for dirt cheap
[18:14:25] <zeeshan> !!!
[18:14:45] <fes> Sync_, I found on www.helmancnc.com that it's like you said. "... P00 means that...... the value for z-axis is the distance from the machine zero point to workpiece zero point..."
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[18:14:53] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261943623394?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649
[18:14:57] <zeeshan> is that what you mean?
[18:14:58] <andypugh> TMany T-numbers could share the same physical holder, especially if the holderd have end-stops like most of mine seem to have.
[18:15:09] <just_pink> If I'm use non oil resistant wiring in oily environment what kind of damage it will make to the wire?
[18:15:19] <fes> Therefore it must be P0 Z140 and not Z-140. Weird that our teacher didn't mark my -140 as wrong :S
[18:15:22] <zeeshan> i got rid of that for $30+shipping
[18:15:51] <andypugh> just_pink: I think that the insulation goes brittle and cracks.
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[18:15:57] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/sv5essp.jpg
[18:16:05] <zeeshan> oh those!
[18:16:25] <zeeshan> thats a bore mic
[18:16:31] <PetefromTn_> internal mic
[18:17:53] <zeeshan> http://www.starrett.com/metrology/metrology-products/precision-measuring-tools/bore-gages/Electronic-Bore-Micrometers#currentPage=1&displayMode=grid&itemsPerPage=24&sortBy=wp/asc
[18:17:54] <zeeshan> these yea?
[18:18:19] <zeeshan> jeez
[18:18:22] <zeeshan> they are like 2000+ usd
[18:18:23] <archivist> nude probe and last pic is dressed with a 30mm stylus http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=probe+2015
[18:18:28] <PetefromTn_> not even the digital ones but yeah they are crazy expensive
[18:18:31] <fes> do you guys know of a free or very cheap program to simulate fanuc code for someone like me who need to refresh his memory and also practice?
[18:18:54] <zeeshan> fes try cncsimulator
[18:18:58] <PetefromTn_> CNCsimulator
[18:19:11] <just_pink> what is a good price for 14 AWG oil resistant wire?
[18:19:14] <fes> that swedish program with a funny mascote?
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[18:19:23] <just_pink> and where i can buy it?
[18:19:40] <Tom_itx> zlog
[18:19:41] <zlog> Tom_itx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2015-07-29.html
[18:19:44] <andypugh> just_pink: Try eBay
[18:20:01] <archivist> just_pink, it is better to not get wire wet
[18:20:01] <zeeshan> archivist: what are you plans with it?
[18:20:49] <archivist> zeeshan, explore, see how it works, looks like it is 3 axis lvdt
[18:21:13] <archivist> with spring suspension/guide
[18:21:15] <zeeshan> would you mount it to a tool holder eventually?
[18:21:33] <archivist> needs to not rotate
[18:21:47] <zeeshan> yea, you could keep it static?
[18:21:51] <archivist> all the electronics were external
[18:21:53] <zeeshan> but jog the axis and touch part
[18:22:43] <archivist> I bet it is off a cmm of some sort, no makers name anywhere
[18:24:07] <archivist> it is rather large though
[18:24:13] <just_pink> andypugh: I need about 2000 feet of wire, so I prefer to go to a place that provide a UPC with the product.
[18:26:35] <just_pink> almost 1K just wiring..
[18:26:48] <archivist> zeeshan, I can imagine the machine bending under the weight of the probe thus adding to any error terms
[18:27:15] <andypugh> just_pink: In that case, Digikey, Newark etc
[18:27:23] <zeeshan> interesting
[18:27:31] <just_pink> I need to sell the G0704 and buy the datron M7
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[18:28:05] <archivist> zeeshan, just under 2 kg, a lot for a little machine
[18:28:11] <just_pink> someone know the price for the M7?
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[18:28:57] <archivist> the seller?
[18:30:39] <just_pink> archivist: I don't want to call tham.. I'm too want it..
[18:31:10] <archivist> resist, get an industrial machine and retrofit
[18:31:31] <andypugh> I just “accidentally” bought a MIG welder on eBay
[18:31:37] <jdh> cool
[18:32:08] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: :)
[18:32:14] <andypugh> I have found that when Italian suppliers sell the same thing in many countries that the Germans bid lowest :-)
[18:32:29] <archivist> I need to have fewer "accidents" so I can get another car
[18:32:50] <andypugh> It might well be junk, but it’s junk with a Euro-torch at least.
[18:32:51] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: Or more, so you can have a capable enough machine shop to build one
[18:32:55] <SpeedEvil> archivist:
[18:33:52] <archivist> or make spares for the dead mundaneo
[18:34:05] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291521239350 Nice colour at least
[18:34:37] <archivist> transport cost though
[18:35:12] <andypugh> Yes, it said £16 postage then I got charge €39 :-(
[18:35:22] <archivist> hehe
[18:35:23] <just_pink> andypugh: I'm want to learn how to weld TIG
[18:36:13] <andypugh> I have TIG, and I prefer it, but I have some steel sections to joint into a framework and TIG would be tedious for that.
[18:36:36] <archivist> with a mig I could get the rust bucket back on the road almost
[18:36:53] <andypugh> I thought about stick-welding (the TIG does that too) but the opportunity to buy a new shiny toy was too good to pass up
[18:37:17] <archivist> stick is ok for thick stuff
[18:37:29] <zeeshan> andypugh: have you played around with silicon bronze tig wire?
[18:37:54] <andypugh> archivist: If you have skills that I lack, yes.
[18:38:13] <archivist> I got trained on stick :)
[18:38:16] <andypugh> zeeshan: Not as yet. I can see uses for repairing castings.
[18:38:19] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/FuA5ca0.jpg
[18:38:23] <zeeshan> it looks pretty
[18:38:25] <zeeshan> when you weld it in ac
[18:38:34] <zeeshan> it looks better when you clean the mill finish on the steel
[18:38:44] <zeeshan> golden tinge
[18:38:51] <andypugh> I have made some beautiful welds with stick. And some horrors. And I can’t tell which until the slag comes off.
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[18:38:57] <zeeshan> it goes dull with dc mode though
[18:39:42] <archivist> if the slag come off by itself, it is a good one
[18:41:17] <just_pink> how to you make the UV / X-Ray tests for the welded parts?
[18:41:27] <archivist> zeeshan, this probe has made me think about a 3 axis strain gauge version
[18:41:44] <andypugh> If my welds look good I assume they are good.
[18:42:16] <zeeshan> lol @ xray test
[18:42:28] <archivist> you only xray critical stuff
[18:42:31] <zeeshan> hahahahaha
[18:42:46] <SpeedEvil> The cheap x-ray method is the one using a bandsaw
[18:42:56] <zeeshan> archivist: dontcha know, we build parts for nasa
[18:43:00] <archivist> if the weld is pretty, ship it
[18:43:04] <SpeedEvil> you make up representative test bits, and then you saw them into many parts
[18:43:17] <SpeedEvil> archivist: do you work for a vendor shipping to SpaceX?
[18:43:18] <zeeshan> though i've seen alot of pretty welds fail in aluminum
[18:43:20] <just_pink> for critical joint you have to make sure it is good .
[18:43:35] <SpeedEvil> just_pink: That is not always true.
[18:43:36] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: No, saw up the best ones, it makes you look better.
[18:43:40] <archivist> of the pretty weld in on aluminium, test
[18:43:48] <SpeedEvil> just_pink: inspecting in quality can have failures of its own.
[18:44:24] <SpeedEvil> just_pink: you need to properly understand and charecterise your process to avoid failures - this can get lots more reliable than only testing , as testing can miss stuff
[18:44:47] <zeeshan> you know how they are testing these arms for some hoist
[18:44:54] <zeeshan> we got em on the servohydraulic tensile tester
[18:44:57] <zeeshan> in fatigue mode
[18:44:57] <archivist> I cut up the best looking welders work at the trailer factory, had no penetration
[18:45:09] <zeeshan> archivist: let me guess, mig weld?
[18:45:24] <zeeshan> mig weld is the easiest to fool people with
[18:45:24] <archivist> mig on aluminium
[18:45:34] <zeeshan> its so easy to make it look pretty
[18:45:37] <zeeshan> but no penetration
[18:45:39] <zeeshan> just the nature of the beast
[18:45:52] <just_pink> there is "home made / home way" to make quality chack for welded parts without cuting / damage the weld?
[18:46:01] <zeeshan> yea its called
[18:46:02] <zeeshan> the hammer test
[18:46:04] <zeeshan> SMASH IT!
[18:46:18] <archivist> can it bend
[18:46:24] <zeeshan> will it blend
[18:46:28] <just_pink> zeeshan: "without damage the weld?"
[18:46:29] <SpeedEvil> Or push it to just before it should yield with a press
[18:46:32] <archivist> or shatter
[18:46:34] <SpeedEvil> if it yeields, throw it out
[18:46:49] <zeeshan> just_pink: its called skill
[18:47:08] <just_pink> what the car shops use?
[18:47:20] <zeeshan> if you mean by muffler shops welding your exhaust
[18:47:20] <SpeedEvil> But in practice - if you need to test your welds to ensure that they are functional at all - you're probably doing it wrong
[18:47:26] <zeeshan> i have yet to see a skilled welder there
[18:47:30] <zeeshan> that's just a mechanic with a welder
[18:47:42] <zeeshan> a fabrication shop on the other hand, ive seen plenty skilled
[18:48:08] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: they do ultrasonic and xray testing on pressure vessels all the time though
[18:48:08] <SpeedEvil> Testing welds to ensure they've hit 100% of theoretical possible maximal strength and have no inclusions for - say - jet turbine blades - fair enough.
[18:48:32] <SpeedEvil> Or pressure vessels - or things which are actually designed for highly stressed use
[18:48:49] <archivist> took about a fortnight to get slag curling properly like the trainer was showing us
[18:48:52] <zeeshan> i would say most smart designers have a factor of safety for a shitty weld
[18:49:01] <SpeedEvil> But if 'normal' stuff needs tested, it's possibly an indication that you don't have enough safety factor
[18:49:03] <zeeshan> so they never assume 100% weld strength
[18:49:08] <zeeshan> yep
[18:49:29] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes you can't avoid not having enough safety factor, but that's not usually the case
[18:49:40] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: chinese manufacturing
[18:49:41] <zeeshan> :-)
[18:49:53] <just_pink> this is why jet turbine blades hold by mechanical joints?
[18:49:54] <archivist> we hardly did any positional welding, another can o worms
[18:50:16] <zeeshan> just_pink: welding changes the grain structure
[18:50:26] <SpeedEvil> yes - jet turbine blades were perhaps a poor example, as they're forged
[18:50:31] <zeeshan> at the weld, you have very fine grains, around the weld the grains are more coarse
[18:50:39] <SpeedEvil> Or manufactuered in more exotic ways
[18:50:46] <archivist> recently grown from a crystal
[18:50:50] <zeeshan> in a high temp application like jet turbine blades, you want 0 welding or infact, 0 grains
[18:51:05] <zeeshan> because creep is directly proportional to grain count
[18:51:06] <zeeshan> and size
[18:51:28] <archivist> RR haz teh patents
[18:51:32] <SpeedEvil> NASA is doing some funky stuff in the area.
[18:51:57] <zeeshan> btw creep means that the material starts deforming under constant load
[18:52:01] <SpeedEvil> For example - turbine case actuators to make the turbine case almost touch the rotating blades to reduce blow-by, rather than just allowing for expansion
[18:52:01] <zeeshan> as a function of time
[18:52:04] <just_pink> you kill my dream to make my own jet engine..
[18:52:40] <archivist> just_pink, plenty of home made engines
[18:53:00] <just_pink> archivist: yeh.. tin can..
[18:53:31] <just_pink> not somthing that pass by a milling machine / EDM
[18:53:40] <andypugh> zeeshan: You want 1.0 grains
[18:53:49] <zeeshan> haha good pint
[18:53:52] <zeeshan> 1 grain
[18:53:54] <zeeshan> *point
[18:54:00] <just_pink> hehe
[18:54:43] <just_pink> neutron engine
[18:54:50] <archivist> just_pink, model aircraft makers are producing engines now
[18:54:54] <SpeedEvil> It's annoying jet engines don't scale well
[18:54:59] <andypugh> just_pink: It’s not even hard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InvF9e5kyjo
[18:55:34] <just_pink> andypugh: [14:52] <just_pink> archivist: yeh.. tin can..
[18:55:50] <just_pink> andypugh: [14:53] <just_pink> not somthing that pass by a milling machine / EDM
[18:55:54] <archivist> the are not tin cans
[18:55:59] <archivist> they
[18:57:45] <jthornton> you should start at the beginning if your going to build jet engines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile
[18:58:19] <andypugh> The Colin Furze video is rather excellent though,
[18:58:45] <SpeedEvil> I am not sure if Furze plays an idiot on youtube.
[18:59:03] <Sync_> he does
[18:59:17] <andypugh> He is an idiot, but a skilled and clever one
[18:59:28] <just_pink> andypugh: avoid the junk stuuf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCsoC3i7JYc
[19:00:08] <just_pink> I'm go for now.. hope to come back with some wireing.
[19:00:39] <andypugh> Using the right tools for the job is cheating :-)
[19:02:00] <just_pink> But the most Important thing before anything, - eyeliner
[19:02:06] <andypugh> No offence to the Poles, but there is something very Polish about wearing a leather jacket when operating a waterjet.
[19:02:08] <archivist> reminds me of the flame tube in the early engines
[19:02:23] <just_pink> I wish I have a g-code for that..
[19:03:32] <just_pink> had *
[19:03:44] <zeeshan> andypugh: i had a q about your scraping of the lathe
[19:03:55] <zeeshan> you're trying to make the ways flat right?
[19:04:16] <andypugh> zeeshan: No, straight
[19:04:39] <zeeshan> how are you ensuring that
[19:05:34] <zeeshan> I have scraped and trued the external surfaces and scraped the "saddle" to fit on 3 of the contact surfaces.
[19:05:38] * zeeshan needs to learn to read
[19:05:53] <Sync_> might be too late for that
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[19:15:37] <archivist> I think scraping is a bit like welding, needs some practice
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[19:19:44] <_methods> i think the most important part of scraping is knowing how to sharpen your scraper
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[19:25:35] <MrSunshine> i think potatoes grows on trees and that there is just a great conspiracy leading us to think they grow in the dirt
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[19:28:54] <_methods> zlog
[19:28:54] <zlog> _methods: Log stored at http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2015-07-29.html
[19:32:20] <_methods> you say potatoe i say potato
[19:36:23] <MrSunshine> well ive got a bat
[19:36:32] <MrSunshine> ;)
[19:36:44] <MrSunshine> he's got huge wings
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[20:21:42] <bjmorel_work> Re-Wiring my CNC cabinent, I have a relay to kill power to the steppers with the estop, and it also goes into an input on the 7i76. Anything else that should be wired into e-stop? No spindle control yet.
[20:22:10] <XXCoder> your heart pacer
[20:22:13] <XXCoder> joking
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[20:25:56] <andypugh> The spindle, when you get one, bit for the time being that sounds about right
[20:26:36] <bjmorel_work> Thanks
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[20:33:23] <PetefromTn_> my machine has a little button I can press that disengages the estop so I can jog off a limit it is an intermittent button
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[20:34:22] <Deejay> like an override for failsafe?
[20:35:56] <PetefromTn_> just used to allow me to temporarily repower the drives and motors to allow me to carefully jog off the limit switch... on a smaller machine you can probably just push the axis physically but on these larger machines that is not possible really...
[20:37:50] <zeeshan> your limit switches are chained with e-stop?
[20:38:05] <PetefromTn_> sure
[20:38:31] <zeeshan> how do you home then?
[20:38:36] <PetefromTn_> either one happens and the result is the same
[20:38:54] <PetefromTn_> I don't understand your question
[20:39:06] <zeeshan> like if you hit a hard limit, and e-stop relay kicks in
[20:39:16] <zeeshan> and you're trying to home the machine using the limit switches
[20:39:28] <zeeshan> do you just hold the limit switch override while its homing?
[20:39:36] <PetefromTn_> I don't home the machine using the limits
[20:39:41] <zeeshan> ah
[20:39:48] <skunksleep> Limits not equal to homing
[20:39:51] <PetefromTn_> my machine is equipped with home AND limits
[20:40:01] <zeeshan> okay, i use limits to home
[20:40:11] <PetefromTn_> besides with LinuxCNC it is nearly impossible to ever hit a limit
[20:40:24] <zeeshan> it is, during homing :)
[20:40:30] <zeeshan> if you're using limit switches as home
[20:41:05] <PetefromTn_> if you are using limits as homes then when you are homing the machine should disregard the limit estop
[20:41:36] <zeeshan> i can see the benefit of having seperately home switches
[20:41:45] <zeeshan> when you're homing, and a home switch fails
[20:41:48] <zeeshan> now it hits the hard limit switch
[20:41:54] <zeeshan> the axis won't keep searching
[20:42:13] <zeeshan> (for me if the home(limit) switch fails)
[20:42:16] <zeeshan> the axis will keep searching
[20:42:18] <zeeshan> scary!
[20:42:34] <PetefromTn_> nevermind that your home switch determines your machines axis position and the resulting accuracy of that..
[20:42:46] <zeeshan> i got good quality limit switches
[20:42:53] <zeeshan> they are proximity
[20:43:17] <zeeshan> im sure ive got it wrong somehow
[20:43:24] <zeeshan> because i dont think this machine originally homed like this
[20:43:43] <zeeshan> the only thing i could think of an index pulse on the glass scale, but i couldnt find that pulse anywhere on the scale
[20:43:44] <PetefromTn_> surprised that the machine does not have both since it was originally CNC
[20:43:54] <zeeshan> yea man
[20:44:11] <skunksleep> Home to index
[20:44:22] <zeeshan> skunksleep: i dont notice an index pulse
[20:44:26] <PetefromTn_> even my older CNC lathe here has both homes and limits
[20:44:27] <zeeshan> i monitored a b and index
[20:44:30] <zeeshan> and theres nothing that happens on index
[20:44:33] <zeeshan> i jogged all around the scale
[20:44:50] <zeeshan> skunksleep: you have heidenhain scales?
[20:45:01] <skunksleep> No. Norma
[20:45:14] <zeeshan> and they're marked for an index pulse?
[20:45:41] <skunksleep> Normally scales have atleast one index
[20:45:42] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: it sucks i dont have a manual for the machine
[20:46:02] <PetefromTn_> if it had home switches I would think it would be pretty obvious
[20:46:14] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: it doesnt have extra switches for sure
[20:46:19] <zeeshan> but a lot of glass scale machines
[20:46:25] <zeeshan> had index pulses built into the glass scale
[20:46:53] <skunksleep> You probably would not see it if you where looking at the index pin
[20:47:01] <zeeshan> skunksleep: please explain!
[20:47:38] <zeeshan> the data spec sheet for my scale model says this:
[20:48:02] <zeeshan> Reference mark: 70mm to 1020mm 2x35m
[20:48:11] <zeeshan> since i have 470mm scales, it should be 2x35mm
[20:48:33] <zeeshan> i'd love to fix this if i can somehow
[20:48:42] <skunksleep> It is so small. What you would want to do is set the encoder index enable to true and then see if it switched to false as it passes the index
[20:49:02] <zeeshan> skunksleep: shouldnt i be able to see it in halscope?
[20:49:10] <zeeshan> if im jogging very slowly
[20:49:12] <zeeshan> say 0.4ipm
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[20:52:01] <skunksleep> Setting index-enable would be a sure test
[20:52:58] <zeeshan> hm2_[xxxxxxxx.encoder.01.index-enable
[20:52:59] <zeeshan> ?
[20:53:09] * zeeshan tries
[20:53:12] <skunksleep> Yes
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[20:55:52] <skunksleep> Hmm it sets the position to zero too.. You might get a following error when it finds the index
[20:56:50] <skunksleep> (I probably only tested this with a spindle encoder)
[20:57:12] <Computer_barf> any of you guys have vaccuums rigged up to your mill?
[20:57:22] <skunksleep> (Or move the axis by hand)
[20:57:41] <PetefromTn_> I do
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[20:57:46] <CaptHindsight> skunksleep: new parenthood catching up with you and just giving up on sleep for 2 more years? :)
[20:58:16] <skunksleep> Yep
[20:58:54] <Computer_barf> im considering addding one to my g0704 for now till I can add flood
[20:59:23] <CaptHindsight> so what's everyone use for HOME switches and what do you think that their repeatability is?
[21:00:15] <just_pink> what is better THHN or PVC?
[21:00:24] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: I use GPS, and get +-5m
[21:01:38] <CaptHindsight> not bad
[21:02:28] <SpeedEvil> I have been looking at thos TI inductive sensors though
[21:02:29] <just_pink> Computer_barf: you have a G0704?
[21:02:39] <skunksleep> CaptHindsight: I use crappy switches and then home to index
[21:03:01] <zeeshan> just_pink: thhn uses pvc insulator also.
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[21:03:51] <just_pink> zeeshan: but what is better? THN? THHN? PVC?
[21:03:57] <CaptHindsight> THHN stands for "Thermoplastic High Heat-resistant Nylon-coated." the nylon has pretty good slip for pulling
[21:05:40] <CaptHindsight> THHN is a code for heat-resistant thermoplastic wire which is allowed for use in dry to damp locations and rated for a maximum temperature of 90ºC (194ºF).
[21:05:54] <CaptHindsight> THWN is a code for heat- and moisture-resistant thermoplastic wire which is allowed for use in both dry and wet locations but has a lower maximum temperature rating of 75ºC (167ºF).
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[21:07:46] <CaptHindsight> some PVC has UV resistant additive for outdoor sirect sunlight exposure use like for a service entrance
[21:11:29] <Sync_> CaptHindsight: use an endswitch and a glass scale with index marks
[21:14:05] <CaptHindsight> let the record show that this is not the type of glass scale being used http://www.scalenet.com/siltec/bathroom-scale/glass-scale.jpg
[21:14:16] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I use: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251680179611 or similar and home to index to get the accuracy.
[21:15:17] <CaptHindsight> so ballpark with just about anything and then use the index on a glass scale for accuracy
[21:15:56] <andypugh> Well, I home to the null point of my motor resolvers, actually.
[21:16:13] <andypugh> But encoder index works just as well
[21:16:41] <andypugh> I bury the sensors in the ways, and use a drilled hole as a target. Let me find a picture.
[21:17:21] <furrywolf> I need to invent a way to home to center. I'm thinking a clicky switch...
[21:17:31] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill#5989135693933177186
[21:17:42] <CaptHindsight> I haven't seen a low cost and accurate (+/- 10um) sensor
[21:18:04] <Sync_> inductive will do that
[21:18:09] <Sync_> or special home switches
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[21:18:18] <andypugh> furrywolf: You need a very long pushy-thing for the switch so that the machine knows which side of centre it is
[21:18:48] <Sync_> furrywolf: absolute encoder and a battery
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[21:19:52] <furrywolf> my plan is either a toggle switch with a U-shaped handle piece and a peg on the other side, or a little wheel with a slot to catch the peg.
[21:20:00] <Sync_> on older machines the home cycle usually was to hit a home switch and then find the index
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[21:20:32] <Sync_> why would you home to center? home to limit seems reasonable to me, as it is only done once per start
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[21:23:06] <furrywolf> I have a lathe/mill combo machine, and in either mode you crash into parts only useful in the other mode...
[21:23:36] <furrywolf> in mill mode, the table still hits the lathe spindle and the tailstock, for example.
[21:23:37] <Sync_> put the tailstock to the far right and home to a stop there
[21:23:37] <CaptHindsight> spoken like a man that doesn't use a lathe with 8m centers :)
[21:24:16] <furrywolf> I'd like to be able to home without needing to rearange parts of the machine to do so. lol
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[21:24:37] <Sync_> you will need to do so anyway
[21:24:38] <TekniQue> CAM software that supports 3D solids in DXF files, anyone?
[21:24:48] <Sync_> or you could just get a real mill
[21:24:53] <Sync_> and not have the hassle
[21:25:01] <furrywolf> yes, right after I get a machine that spits out $100 bills.
[21:25:59] <TekniQue> a combo lathe/mill, I've never even seen one of those
[21:26:08] <Sync_> and pulling the tailstock to the far right doesn't seem like a lot of work as you have to pull the tool holder anyway
[21:26:15] <furrywolf> TekniQue: china makes a lot of them.
[21:26:51] <furrywolf> Sync_: I also would have to pull a rear-mounted cutoff tool holder...
[21:26:51] <TekniQue> I see, cheap as shit http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-x-20-Combo-Metal-Lathe-Mill-Drill-BT500-/252018852596
[21:27:04] <Sync_> using a combo in that way is always going to suck
[21:27:04] <PetefromTn_> lol
[21:27:31] <TekniQue> cheap as shit but doesn't look too useful
[21:27:40] <furrywolf> heh, that's very similar to the one I have.
[21:27:45] <PetefromTn_> cmon now that is not fair...
[21:27:51] <CaptHindsight> maybe combine a low cost home switch to get into the ballpark, slow the machine and then a short (<few mm) scale for HOME
[21:27:56] <furrywolf> TekniQue: I'm so glad you're rich. feel free to buy me an expensive machine.
[21:27:57] <PetefromTn_> we all agree it is not the best machine available
[21:28:12] <PetefromTn_> but it is a decent machine for smaller stuff and hobby parts..
[21:28:18] <Sync_> no it is not
[21:28:19] <PetefromTn_> I know I had one for years
[21:28:24] <furrywolf> also, buy me a property that has a shop or a garage, so I don't need to do projects in my living room.
[21:28:29] <PetefromTn_> says who
[21:28:33] <andypugh> I have a lathe/mill combo. It’s awful.
[21:28:38] <TekniQue> furrywolf: I live in my workshop, can't afford having both a workshop and an apartment
[21:28:52] <PetefromTn_> andypugh your machine is completely different really
[21:29:23] <andypugh> Yes. Hopefully yours was less awful. https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5398215426996934626
[21:29:27] <PetefromTn_> I had one of these machines for years and made all sorts of stuff with it. It is not that bad but it IS a compromise
[21:29:44] <CaptHindsight> lathe, mill, beer dispenser/chiller that unfolds to a sofa sleeper and you might have something
[21:30:11] <andypugh> The problem is that a V-flat bed is totally wrong for a milling machine.
[21:30:12] <furrywolf> TekniQue: I don't have a workshop. I have a living room. heh.
[21:30:21] <Deejay> gn8
[21:30:30] <PetefromTn_> the lathe on my machine was actually pretty capable and had a large swing and good power for its size/price point..
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[21:30:55] <andypugh> My lathe/mill is an OK lathe. But it’s a poor mill.
[21:31:17] <PetefromTn_> andypugh the shoptask style does not have the same bed as the lathe you have it is a dovetailed bed
[21:31:19] <andypugh> I rather expect my new lathe to be somewhat better.
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[21:31:39] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: That’s likely to be a big advantage
[21:31:57] <PetefromTn_> I actually did some pretty cool things with it that are impossible with another machine... like milling on a part that is STILL in the lathe LOL
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[21:32:19] <PetefromTn_> but at the end of the day the millhead is a weak point unfortunately
[21:32:23] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: how'd you manage that, since the lathe spindle and mill spindle are fixed relative to each other?
[21:32:29] <andypugh> Yeah, mine doesn’t even have the spindle axes in a line.
[21:32:32] <PetefromTn_> they did come up with ways around that which worked quite well.
[21:32:56] <furrywolf> mine has them in a line, but that still doesn't make them both useful at once.
[21:33:08] <PetefromTn_> simple locked the part down in the lathe and milled on it with the millhead...
[21:33:24] <andypugh> Sounds good for cross-drilling bolts etc
[21:33:30] <PetefromTn_> beleive it or not it was a part for a turbocharger LOL
[21:33:45] <furrywolf> but you have no control overwhere the part is, unless you're just extending it through the chuck.
[21:33:54] <furrywolf> since the lathe chuck and mill spindle are fixed
[21:33:57] <PetefromTn_> worked for about two runs before my friend blew the motor in his turbo suzuki drag bike...
[21:34:25] <Computer_barf> is it possible for me to increase my mm/min while the cut is in progress?
[21:34:39] <PetefromTn_> All I am saying is that while it is NOT perfect nor is it my first choice of machine for a hobbyist it is not as bad as you might think,,,,
[21:34:47] <PetefromTn_> sure
[21:34:56] <PetefromTn_> just feedrate override
[21:34:58] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: the insulation is pvc
[21:34:59] <PetefromTn_> slider
[21:35:00] <zeeshan|2> not nylon
[21:35:06] <zeeshan|2> nylon is just the outer layer for pulling
[21:35:11] <zeeshan|2> http://i21.geccdn.net/site/images/n-picgroup/SOO_20502101.jpg
[21:35:41] <PetefromTn_> I would not recommend someone going out and buying one but he already has one and intends at least sometimes to want to CNC it...
[21:36:08] <zeeshan|2> THHN ® or THWN-2 or MTW copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper, unilay compressed strand, insulated with a tough heat and moisture resistant polyvinyl chloride (PVC), over which a SIM (SLIKQWIK® Infused Membrane) nylon (polyamide) or UL Recognized equal jacket is applied.
[21:36:53] <PetefromTn_> my machine was the Shoptask 17-20XMTC and I enjoyed having it for quite a few years.. then I got an RF45 and a 12x36 lathe and realized how much better the new machines were pretty quickly
[21:37:05] <zeeshan|2> Sync_: i think homing to limit switches is bad like iam currently doing
[21:37:12] <Sync_> PetefromTn_: I could not make my hobby parts on one of them
[21:37:20] <zeeshan|2> because if the limit switches fails during homing (yes its a small chance), the axis will crash
[21:37:25] <Sync_> zeeshan|2: that is why I said that usually they home to a home switch
[21:37:30] <zeeshan|2> O
[21:37:34] <Sync_> and have a second limit switch
[21:37:47] <zeeshan|2> 7:20:35] <Sync_> why would you home to center? home to limit seems reasonable to me, as it is only done once per start
[21:37:49] <zeeshan|2> was refering to that
[21:37:56] <zeeshan|2> i came in part way :P
[21:38:13] <Sync_> yes, read up two lines
[21:38:33] <zeeshan|2> zlog
[21:38:33] <zlog> zeeshan|2: Log stored at http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2015-07-29.html
[21:38:37] <Sync_> if you are a tightass homing to limit gets it done ;)
[21:39:28] <PetefromTn_> Sync_ have you ever used one?
[21:39:33] <Sync_> yes
[21:39:48] <furrywolf> you're forgetting the most important part... CHEAP.
[21:40:09] <furrywolf> I don't have the money or space for two good machines.
[21:40:27] <furrywolf> I don't have the money or space for even one good machine.
[21:40:42] <zeeshan|2> poor excuse
[21:40:44] <PetefromTn_> short of physical size I did not find anything I could NOT make on it I guess it would depend on what you are trying to make. Of course there are also several different flavors of these machines some are pretty shitty...
[21:41:01] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: but you're a good machinist
[21:41:05] <zeeshan|2> you make use of what you got
[21:41:11] <zeeshan|2> rather than blame the tool :-)
[21:41:16] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: I think I have the same machine you had.
[21:41:38] <Sync_> PetefromTn_: the machine I used had a B-taper on the vertical head
[21:41:40] <PetefromTn_> it is similar I think...
[21:41:40] <zeeshan|2> like me blaming my home made pos 12x36 cnc conversion
[21:41:49] <Sync_> which made it completetly useless for milling
[21:41:57] <PetefromTn_> really mine was R8
[21:41:58] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: the THHN cable with the nylon jacket is ok for using inside the cable chain?
[21:42:12] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: yes
[21:42:20] <zeeshan|2> just make sure its MTW rated as well
[21:42:23] <zeeshan|2> most are
[21:42:24] <PetefromTn_> besides why would a tapered spindle be useless for milling?
[21:42:41] <zeeshan|2> it could be any taper
[21:42:42] <Sync_> because it is only made for drilling
[21:42:43] <zeeshan|2> as long as it has a drawbar!
[21:42:56] <zeeshan|2> what is a b taper
[21:43:02] <zeeshan|2> like morse taper?
[21:43:05] <Sync_> no
[21:43:10] <andypugh> Jacobs?
[21:43:14] <furrywolf> mine is MT3
[21:43:22] <Sync_> basically andypugh
[21:43:28] <PetefromTn_> never seen one that was not either morse taper or R8
[21:43:30] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: what is the MTW?
[21:43:31] <zeeshan|2> http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html#B-Taper
[21:43:32] <zeeshan|2> found
[21:43:40] <Sync_> yeah I don't know what crack they were smoking
[21:43:58] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: it stands for "machine tool wire"
[21:44:02] <Computer_barf> damn why the hell would the feedrate override be so sensitive
[21:44:04] <zeeshan|2> most THHN is MTW
[21:44:07] <furrywolf> Sync_: what did your machine weigh?
[21:44:12] <Sync_> I dismantled the spindle because I tought that there was an adapter in there
[21:44:15] <Sync_> no idea
[21:44:17] <Sync_> was not mine
[21:44:18] <Computer_barf> and have no option to just set it with text
[21:44:25] <PetefromTn_> then I guess there is a reason yours sucked LOL
[21:44:36] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: what the "machine tool wire" mean?
[21:44:53] <zeeshan|2> what are you asking
[21:45:03] <just_pink> https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0762650?term=wire&sortby=wholesaleprice&sortdir=ascending&r=~|categoryl1:%22601280%20Electrical%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22601355%20Electrical%20Wire%20and%20Accessories%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22601356%20Electric%20Wire%22|~%20~|sattr04:^600$|~%20~|sattr01:^14$|~
[21:45:13] <just_pink> I think to buy this wire?
[21:45:21] <zeeshan|2> look at the specs!!!
[21:45:24] <just_pink> It is MTW? THHN?
[21:45:28] <zeeshan|2> Wire Type:THHN / MTW / AWM / TFFN
[21:45:31] <zeeshan|2> it meets all thsoe standards
[21:45:33] <Sync_> I just bought a f45 and a 12x24 lathe
[21:45:35] <zeeshan|2> that wire is perfect
[21:45:41] <Sync_> that was the better combination for me
[21:45:56] <andypugh> B10 = small end of MT1
[21:45:56] <andypugh> B12 = large end of MT1
[21:45:58] <andypugh> B16 = small end of MT2
[21:45:59] <andypugh> B18 = large end of MT2
[21:46:00] <andypugh> B22 = small end of MT3
[21:46:01] <andypugh> B24 = Large end of MT3
[21:46:09] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: GRATE!
[21:46:29] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: just be aware that mtw by itself doesnt have a nylon outer later usually
[21:46:43] <zeeshan|2> that outer layer is there to pull wire through conduit so you dont damage the pvc jacket
[21:46:49] <zeeshan|2> this makes it a bit stiffer.
[21:47:02] <zeeshan|2> some people don't like that extra stiffness
[21:47:16] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: / just_pink Isn’t that solid wire?
[21:47:23] <just_pink> it is safe to peet it?
[21:47:23] <zeeshan|2> no
[21:47:27] <zeeshan|2> its stranded
[21:47:48] <andypugh> It says solid in the web page
[21:47:51] <zeeshan|2> whoops
[21:47:54] <zeeshan|2> i missed that
[21:48:02] <zeeshan|2> you dont want that!
[21:48:23] <zeeshan|2> that is weird
[21:48:26] <zeeshan|2> how the heck is it mtw rated
[21:48:29] <zeeshan|2> and its solid
[21:48:42] <andypugh> For control cabinets?
[21:48:46] <just_pink> I have no idea
[21:48:48] <just_pink> yes
[21:48:50] <just_pink> https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0762642?term=wire&sortby=wholesaleprice&sortdir=ascending&r=~|categoryl1:%22601280%20Electrical%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22601355%20Electrical%20Wire%20and%20Accessories%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22601356%20Electric%20Wire%22|~%20~|sattr04:^600$|~%20~|sattr01:^14$|~%20~|sattr09:^19$|~
[21:48:53] <Sync_> furrywolf: sure, but I'd have bought a reasonable lathe, as you can do most parts with it until I could afford a mill
[21:48:57] <just_pink> what about that?
[21:49:04] <zeeshan|2> just pink search for TEW
[21:49:06] <zeeshan|2> stranded wire
[21:49:12] <Sync_> zeeshan|2: super flexible copper
[21:49:58] <just_pink> what os TEW?
[21:50:42] <zeeshan|2> you mean the abbreviation?
[21:50:42] <just_pink> is*
[21:50:55] <zeeshan|2> i dunno what the t is for
[21:50:58] <zeeshan|2> but the ending is "equipment wire"
[21:51:02] <zeeshan|2> prolly thermoplastic
[21:52:26] <zeeshan|2> http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet19
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[21:53:25] <Sync_> just buy M22759/32 wire
[21:54:13] <just_pink> Sync_: you know a place?
[21:55:14] <Sync_> allied wire should have some, but it is a troll ;)
[21:55:18] <Sync_> that is milsped ETFE wire
[21:55:22] <Sync_> ~milspec
[21:56:35] <just_pink> Sync_: why it is a troll ?
[21:58:14] <Sync_> because it is quite expensive
[21:59:05] <just_pink> how much?
[21:59:15] <just_pink> $1 per foot?
[21:59:42] <just_pink> $0.1 per feet?
[21:59:43] <Rab> $.17 on eBay: http://item.ebay.com/310990934575
[21:59:44] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hyCSgXWAZo CNC shoptask running LinuxCNC and using CSS on lathe....
[22:00:00] <PetefromTn_> just saying look at the table and see how you could do a cool gang tool setup EASILY
[22:00:37] <andypugh> Cool and the Gang (Tool)
[22:00:47] -!- dan2k3k4 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[22:01:19] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HHFvNv9Ujk threading..
[22:03:16] <PetefromTn_> it really is a shame there is not a really good mill/lathe combo machine out there that is decently capable and affordable seems like you could sell a bunch of them
[22:03:43] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: start peteMach company
[22:03:44] <Sync_> decent affordable, pick one
[22:03:44] <zeeshan|2> and make em
[22:03:55] <zeeshan|2> =]
[22:04:05] -!- acdha has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[22:05:11] <PetefromTn_> seriously there are TONS of guys like Furry here that want something like that but don't have room for two larger machines... and it does not seem like it would be all that hard to design one
[22:06:56] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf just talks about his machine
[22:06:59] <zeeshan|2> doesnt cnc it
[22:06:59] <zeeshan|2> :{
[22:08:47] <PetefromTn_> something like the shoptask with a MUCH improved millhead and more travels would be pretty good start. Shopmaster/shoptask tried redoing the basic design several times or rather just added onto it and it got considerably better but never really reached its full potential.
[22:09:18] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: it's already cnced and making chips
[22:09:29] <PetefromTn_> also the lathe/milhead column could be thicker/stiffer that would help but it is not bad the way it is..
[22:09:37] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: bs
[22:09:38] <zeeshan|2> show us
[22:09:47] <PetefromTn_> it is?
[22:10:41] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/milltest01.jpg that was the first test I did on it, cutting the default program...
[22:11:03] <PetefromTn_> cool man I did not know you were that far along...
[22:11:05] <furrywolf> (depth changes is due to my being lazy and only clamping the wood on one side, and it riding up onto the endmill)
[22:11:25] <furrywolf> I uploaded that image 14-Feb-2015. lol
[22:11:36] <Sync_> PetefromTn_: the main problem is the y axis in that case for milling
[22:11:42] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: wow
[22:11:44] <zeeshan|2> :D
[22:11:45] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Maybe start with a mill and add a lathe spindle. Have you seen the Tormach Duality lathe?
[22:11:55] * zeeshan|2 is happy to see that pic
[22:11:57] <andypugh> (Not the new dedicated lathe)
[22:12:56] <PetefromTn_> whats wrong with the Y axis?
[22:13:06] <furrywolf> the current project is building an enclosure for the electronics. right now they're sitting next to it on some 2x8 scraps. but, my back got crunched, and now all usefullness has ceased.
[22:13:26] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO2rmNkZ4M4
[22:13:54] <PetefromTn_> andypugh by most accounts the duality lathe was a miserable failure...
[22:13:58] <furrywolf> at the same time I'll switch it over to a 7i76e instead of the parport breakout board it's currently running with.
[22:14:38] <Sync_> PetefromTn_: making it resist pulling forces
[22:15:13] <andypugh> I would expect it to be less of a miserable failure than the milling head on my lathe. But it is quite a small lathe.
[22:15:15] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you mean
[22:15:53] <PetefromTn_> by Y axis do you mean the long axis of the lathe?
[22:16:25] <Sync_> yes
[22:16:33] <Sync_> as X is parallel with the clamping surface
[22:18:25] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: I'm sure I've mentioned using the machine on here at least once. heh.
[22:19:23] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you mean exactly but I will say that once properly adjusted I never had any trouble with rigidity from that table...
[22:19:45] <PetefromTn_> the only real drawback is the rigidity of the column and overhang of the millhead itself.
[22:20:05] <furrywolf> I haven't done much metal on it yet, as there's too many ways for chips to get into the open electronics. need to build the enclosure.
[22:21:11] <Sync_> PetefromTn_: endmills will tend to pull the work upwards, lathe beds are made to withstand downwards pressure
[22:21:19] <PetefromTn_> and like I said there are ways around that.. I was actually in the process of building something they called the quadralift for the machine just when I got the RF45 and lathe and sold the shoptask.
[22:21:36] <Sync_> they will need to have a certain amount of slop otherwise it will wear very fast
[22:21:43] <PetefromTn_> Sync_ Oh you misunderstand
[22:21:48] <Sync_> which will cause issues with milling
[22:21:57] <PetefromTn_> the shoptask's lathe ways are not traditional lathe ways
[22:22:10] <PetefromTn_> it actually has a dual dovetail way much like a milling machine
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[22:23:29] <PetefromTn_> believe me when I say that I have had this machine for years and have since moved on to everything from the RF45 to knee mills and now to a Vertical Machining center in my shop and I have run all sorts of machines in other pro shops
[22:23:30] <andypugh> We seem to be having a wierd conversation here where I say “my combination machine is rubbish” and you reply “you are talking rot, my combination machine was fine”
[22:23:32] <Sync_> the shoptask might, but the chinese clones do not have
[22:23:46] <PetefromTn_> I am pretty familiar with the milling process and what it needs..
[22:23:48] <furrywolf> the only lathe I have is my sherline, and it has the same style ways as the shoptask.
[22:24:09] <zeeshan-mill> fak those combo machines
[22:24:10] <zeeshan-mill> gARBAGE!!
[22:24:33] <zeeshan-mill> my opinion is more important okay??!
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[22:25:39] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFKPr7ZB9bI this video shows the ways pretty well... you can see it is a dual dovetail and clamps to the carriage like a typical chinese bedmill does.. there are gibs for wear adjustment
[22:26:03] <zeeshan-mill> zlog
[22:26:03] <zlog> zeeshan-mill: Log stored at http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2015-07-29.html
[22:26:07] <furrywolf> there's gibs for selecting between "too floppy to cut straight" and "too stiff to move". :P
[22:26:20] * furrywolf still hasn't found the perfect middle
[22:26:23] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf that is typical chinese machines LOL
[22:26:59] <zeeshan-mill> this is a silly q
[22:27:01] <Sync_> scrape the gibs and ways, then they will work
[22:27:05] <PetefromTn_> again let me say that I am NOT saying the machine is perfect whatsoever...
[22:27:10] <zeeshan-mill> but is there anyway to copy something from the hal config "show"
[22:27:15] <zeeshan-mill> i always have to type it out
[22:27:21] <PetefromTn_> nor would I now recommend one over a mill and lathe seperately
[22:27:49] <PetefromTn_> but what I am saying is that particular machine I had and it was not too bad really.... especially the lathe part was decent
[22:28:07] <furrywolf> lathes and milling machines, of any variety worth CNCing, start in the $3000 range around here. I got this machine for $100.
[22:28:21] <furrywolf> $100 is within my budget. $6000 is not.
[22:28:29] <zeeshan-mill> skunksleep, still around?
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[22:30:19] <malcom2073> I was looking for something on youtube, saw this, and totally forgot what I was looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=422T2VNI5OI
[22:30:59] <andypugh> malcom2073: You were probably looking for baby otters. I usually am.
[22:31:09] <malcom2073> Ah yes, that was it, thanks for the reminder
[22:32:48] <PetefromTn_> that video is all fine and dandy except for one thing.....that's NOT a milling machine LOL
[22:33:36] <andypugh> And whatever controller it is is terrible at circles
[22:33:47] <Sync_> mach3
[22:33:55] <zeeshan-mill> setting parameter 'hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.index-enable' to 'true'
[22:33:56] <zeeshan-mill> pin 'hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.index-enable' is connected to a signal
[22:33:58] <zeeshan-mill> what am i doing wrong
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[22:34:29] <andypugh> Try sets on the signal
[22:35:09] <zeeshan-mill> signal 'hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.index-enable' not found
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[22:35:47] <andypugh> Because that is a pin
[22:35:58] <andypugh> show pin hm2…
[22:36:29] <zeeshan-mill> yep its a pin
[22:36:43] <andypugh> show pin should show the signal connected to it.
[22:37:28] <zeeshan-mill> its connected to y-index-enable
[22:37:35] <zeeshan-mill> so i guess i need to do sets y-index-enable true
[22:37:38] <andypugh> sets y-index-enable
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[22:37:54] <andypugh> (It might not work, I can’t remember)
[22:38:20] <zeeshan-mill> it worked
[22:38:24] <zeeshan-mill> sigh whats going on here :(
[22:38:30] <zeeshan-mill> it doesnt turn false like skunk said
[22:38:51] <andypugh> It should, when you turn the encoder past index
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[22:39:03] <zeeshan-mill> but the spec sheet says theres 2 reference marks every 35 mm
[22:39:07] <furrywolf> random spindle-synchronized-motion and lathe-capability question: if I run the spindle slow enough, can I cut hex flats onto the shaft with the lathe?
[22:39:45] <andypugh> furrywolf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4q8gCpeY1A
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[22:40:31] <furrywolf> andypugh: that looks like a "yes" :)
[22:40:57] <malcom2073> That's awesome
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[22:41:24] <furrywolf> good, that means I can make adapter fittings without needing to move the part to the mill to make flats.
[22:42:30] <andypugh> But for extra fun, configure like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uZ241GRreg
[22:43:26] <zeeshan-mill> i wonder if there is some parameter i need to enable in 7i77
[22:43:31] <zeeshan-mill> to be able to see the index pulse
[22:43:48] <jthornton> I don't think you can see it in linuxcnc
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[22:44:20] <zeeshan-mill> how do you diagnose it then
[22:44:23] <zeeshan-mill> i can see a and b?
[22:44:30] <ffurrywol> bah, looks like my connection is not compatible with youtube today.
[22:44:36] <ffurrywol> <furrywolf> good, that means I can make adapter fittings without needing to move the part to the mill to make flats.
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[22:46:36] <andypugh> The index is likely to be rather short
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[22:47:44] <jthornton> zeeshan-mill, what are you trying to diagnose?
[22:48:02] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: no kidding
[22:48:21] <zeeshan-mill> jthornton, my scales have index marks every 35mm
[22:48:25] <zeeshan-mill> im trying to use them
[22:49:26] <jthornton> oh, stepping outside the warm comfortable box again I see
[22:49:27] <ffurrywol> finally got the video to load a bit... are you cranking the spindle by hand? lol
[22:49:50] <zeeshan-mill> haha
[22:50:08] <andypugh> ffurrywol: Indeed. That lathe has no back-gear so won’t go slow enough for a stepper-X to track
[22:50:41] ffurrywol is now known as furrywolf
[22:50:44] <zeeshan-mill> man the other day i had the scope
[22:50:48] <zeeshan-mill> i shoulda checked index analog signal
[22:51:20] <andypugh> Does the scale manual say that there is an index?
[22:51:25] <zeeshan-mill> yes
[22:51:30] <zeeshan-mill> infact when i took it apart
[22:51:33] <zeeshan-mill> i could visually see the marks
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[22:51:34] <andypugh> Broken wire?
[22:51:43] <zeeshan-mill> on all 3 axis?
[22:51:55] <andypugh> It’s possible.
[22:52:04] <andypugh> But unlikely
[22:52:34] <andypugh> It once took me ages to work out that the horn on my bike had breaks in both wires _and_ an iffy switch.
[22:52:38] <zeeshan-mill> setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.index-invert 0
[22:52:39] <zeeshan-mill> setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.index-mask 0
[22:52:39] <zeeshan-mill> setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.index-mask-invert 0
[22:52:41] <zeeshan-mill> whoops
[22:54:15] <PCW> The way you check for index is by "sets" ing the signal that carries index enable and seeing if it gets cleared when you pass an index mark
[22:54:17] <PCW> (or move so slowly the the servo thread can resolve A and B
[22:54:30] <PCW> that the
[22:55:25] <Sync_> andypugh: the non round turning is interesting, I just made a program that generates a toolpath for a cam grinder
[22:59:15] <zeeshan-mill> PCW, to true?
[22:59:19] <andypugh> I am not sure that a toolpath makes sense for a cam grinder. I would go for calculating position on-the-fly
[22:59:26] <PCW> yes
[22:59:36] <zeeshan-mill> youre right you can barely see A phase even
[22:59:40] <zeeshan-mill> going at 0.4in/min
[22:59:40] <zeeshan-mill> lol
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[22:59:55] <zeeshan-mill> its a solid rectangle
[22:59:56] <zeeshan-mill> almost
[23:00:08] <furrywolf> finished the video... your allen keey looks pretty loose. did the hole come out the wrong size, or did you just grab a random allen key?
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[23:00:58] <zeeshan-mill> pcw nothing happens
[23:01:01] <zeeshan-mill> it stays true
[23:02:07] <PCW> that says you are not getting an index signal (if you moved far enough)
[23:03:53] <zeeshan-mill> hm
[23:05:13] <CaptHindsight> PCW: have you found a low cost (<$20) HOME switch with <10um repeatability?
[23:08:58] <zeeshan-mill> i guess i need to borrow the scope again
[23:09:17] <zeeshan-mill> and hook it up the analog index input and see if there is a signal when it goes over the index marks
[23:09:37] <zeeshan-mill> right on the scale it says "REFERENZMARKE!"
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[23:14:11] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan-mill: maybe your inputs don't understand German
[23:14:15] <zeeshan-mill> hehe
[23:15:19] <Valen> zeeshan you do need to configure the pin
[23:15:43] <Valen> at least I did as i recall, the default config was missing the links between all the components
[23:18:53] <andypugh> furrywolf: The radius that the tool was at wasn’t exactly the one that the shape generator thought it was at
[23:19:20] <andypugh> So I actually got something a bit more “torx” shaped
[23:19:22] <zeeshan-mill> net y-index-enable <=> pid.y.index-enable; setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.index-invert 0; setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.index-mask 0; setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.index-mask-invert 0; net y-index-enable axis.1.index-enable <=> hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.index-enable
[23:19:32] <zeeshan-mill> those are the lines i see in my hal file
[23:20:14] <andypugh> All you need is hm2_5i25….-enable linked to y-index-enable
[23:20:20] <andypugh> (For your test)
[23:21:08] <zeeshan-mill> not working unfortunately
[23:22:04] <Topy44> right, sorry for crossposting, going to ask here as well... i have a question about designing a linear motion system
[23:22:22] <zeeshan-mill> will get a scope
[23:22:33] <zeeshan-mill> till then, im homing with the limit switches :P
[23:22:34] <Topy44> single axis, no relevant loads and very slow moving, but requires very high angular accuracy
[23:22:50] <andypugh> A curvilinear motion system would be more interesting
[23:23:02] <Topy44> around 0.1°
[23:23:17] <andypugh> A linear motion system with angular accuracy?
[23:23:43] <Topy44> andypugh: as in: the angle of the carriage to its support must be 90° to within about 0.1°
[23:24:22] <andypugh> Two well-spaced linear guides then
[23:24:37] <andypugh> Or the widest single guide that will fit
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[23:25:21] <andypugh> Or something completely different, depending on important details that you have not as yet divulged
[23:26:23] <CaptHindsight> Topy44: what is going to be mounted on the carriage?
[23:26:44] <andypugh> If it isn’t cake I am not interested
[23:27:16] <Topy44> CaptHindsight: without going into details: an optical system. weighs a few hundred grams tops.
[23:27:26] <CaptHindsight> what's the mass of the load? how is it attached to the carriage? what is the shape of the load?
[23:28:13] <Topy44> the carriage is about 20cm wide, with a 20cm tall load on it, and about 5cm long
[23:28:26] <Topy44> maybe 500g
[23:28:53] <Topy44> there must not be any belts or anything under the carriage, i wanted to use a single belt on one side
[23:29:22] <Topy44> the problem with a dual rail system is that it tends to seize up if driven from one side only as it wants to rotate
[23:29:41] <CaptHindsight> you have to consider what it's going to do during accel and decel
[23:29:51] <CaptHindsight> how it might twist
[23:30:00] <Topy44> yeah
[23:30:04] <Topy44> thats precisely my issue
[23:30:11] <CaptHindsight> how much cake and the type of frosting
[23:30:18] <Topy44> i was thinking to have a long carriage on a single rail on one side, with two bearings, and have it simply glide on a flat surface on the other side
[23:30:22] <CaptHindsight> in Andy's case :)
[23:30:23] <andypugh> Topy44: It’s sometimes surprising what you can get away with with off-centre loads.
[23:31:07] <Topy44> if you have ever seen the construction of a cheap scanner, thats roughly my idea
[23:31:08] <Topy44> http://retrointerfacing.edwindertien.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/r0013764.jpg
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[23:32:02] <andypugh> Not immediatley relevant, but the gear-shift on our old fire engine is a 3’ handle to a shaft, then the shaft slides through two bronze bearings 6” apart. You would never anticipate that the handle could slide the shat in and out of the bearings, but it works beautifully
[23:32:19] <os1r1s> andypugh: Is there an easy way to add the G540 files from the mesanet zip so that PNCconf can see it?
[23:32:48] <andypugh> You would need the G540 XML file. It might exist
[23:32:53] <os1r1s> andypugh: I have it
[23:32:58] <os1r1s> I just don't know where to put it
[23:33:15] <andypugh> In the firmware direcotry with the .but file I think
[23:33:45] <os1r1s> andypugh: It doesn't seem to read it as an option from there ... in ./lib/firmware/hm2/5i25/
[23:33:50] <andypugh> Topy44: Put the wide linear guide vertical next to the laser / shark assembly ?
[23:34:15] <andypugh> os1r1s: I thought so, but I am too l33t to use pncconf
[23:34:26] <Topy44> how did you know it was a linear guide for a laser-equipped shark?
[23:34:40] <andypugh> Well, it wasn’t cake, what else could it be?
[23:34:44] <Topy44> true.
[23:35:25] <os1r1s> andypugh: It would be nice to be able to convert a config from LPT to a mesa card. I've already got the firmware loaded. Its the rest that a gui would make easy.
[23:35:52] <CaptHindsight> laser shark cake, what boy wouldn't want that?
[23:35:56] <Topy44> i was trying to find some inspiration looking at 3d printers. then i realized that the people that designed most 3d printers don't seem to have much of a clue how to design any kind of machine.
[23:36:31] <CaptHindsight> Topy44: can I quote you and put you on a poster?
[23:36:34] <andypugh> Interesting idea. The Mach3 converter was recently incorporated in the Stepconf. There could be a Stepconf converter in Pncconf.
[23:37:41] <Topy44> CaptHindsight: heh. sure. :)
[23:38:19] <Topy44> most 3d printers i have seen have _massive_ flaws in their motion systems that are obvious even to me, even though i don't really have a clue.
[23:38:46] <Topy44> like completly overdefined systems that will seize up whenever there is a slight temperature change :)
[23:38:47] <andypugh> Some are trading off other things for reduced moving mass
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[23:40:43] <andypugh> Many are trading off everything in favour of “not been done before”
[23:40:44] <CaptHindsight> they also trade experience for hubris
[23:41:33] <andypugh> I think I like the Ultimaker crossed-rods design
[23:41:42] <Topy44> i actually like the ultimaker design
[23:42:08] <Topy44> interesting idea to use the same rods as linear guides and for transferring rotational force for the other axis
[23:42:30] <Topy44> though it limits the design to bushings instead of ball bearings, but for a 3d printer thats fien
[23:42:33] <Topy44> *fine
[23:42:45] <Topy44> anyway
[23:43:04] <andypugh> No reason it couldn’t use recirculating ball bushings
[23:43:39] <Topy44> it appears most of the 3d printers don't seem to know for example how to decouple the wobble of a lead screw or how not to overdevine a system
[23:44:04] <Topy44> and dual rail systems are fine if properly aligned, but 3d printed plastic parts and "properly aligned" are not really compatible :)
[23:44:35] <Topy44> anyway. back to my issue.
[23:44:36] <andypugh> That depends on the design, and if adjustment is built-in
[23:44:45] <Topy44> http://retrointerfacing.edwindertien.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/r0013764.jpg
[23:44:58] <Topy44> anything that speaks to a design similar to this?
[23:45:12] <Topy44> possibly with a wheel on a rail of sorts instead of just plastic on plastic :)
[23:45:36] <Topy44> umh
[23:45:37] <andypugh> You could use epoxy in the same way as this lathe used low-melting point alloy: https://flowxrgdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/new-method-of-building-lathes.pdf
[23:45:44] <Topy44> i meant: against a design similar to this
[23:47:32] <CaptHindsight> what will they think of next?
[23:47:48] <Topy44> i am also trying to figure out how to build an adjustment system for the angle
[23:48:00] <Topy44> it needs to be adjusted to about .1°
[23:50:36] <andypugh> The non-driven end could be on a roller of adjustable height
[23:50:57] <andypugh> Or you could provide jacking screws for the support
[23:51:06] <Topy44> ah, miscommunication
[23:51:24] <andypugh> XY plane angle?
[23:51:27] <Topy44> yeah
[23:51:33] <CaptHindsight> yeah, drawing are always helpful
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[23:52:12] <Topy44> yeah the XZ angle is easy enough to do, and also not that critical (only needs to be accurate to .2mm or so)
[23:52:33] <Topy44> umh, YZ that would be. i think.
[23:52:38] <Topy44> anyway, you know what i mean
[23:52:41] <andypugh> If it’s all low-load, then hold the ball-bushing with 4 x screws at each end in an oversized bore
[23:53:07] <Topy44> that would be hard to adjust
[23:53:14] <andypugh> (4-jaw chuck style)
[23:53:18] <Topy44> especially as tightening the screws would knock it out of alignment
[23:53:31] <andypugh> Yes, but only once
[23:54:00] <andypugh> If you can do a 4-jaw chuck or true a bicycle wheel it’s easy enough.
[23:54:15] <Topy44> hrm
[23:54:15] <andypugh> And you get to adjust everything
[23:55:30] <andypugh> (including the angles in the XZ and XY planes)
[23:56:15] <Topy44> hm...
[23:56:19] <Topy44> yeah i see what you mean
[23:56:22] <CaptHindsight> Topy44: whats the span? ~20cm?
[23:56:25] <Topy44> trying to imagine how to build it
[23:56:39] <Topy44> CaptHindsight: of the carriage? yeah, about 20cm across
[23:57:06] <Topy44> btw it needs to be produceable with bought or laser-cut parts - can't have any machined parts
[23:57:32] <Topy44> i had another idea how to do the alignment
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[23:58:42] <Topy44> essentially an undercarriage on the rail, and the main carriage attached with a single screw on one side. then add a spring-loaded adjustment screw on the other that pushes it around that rotation point. plus another screw to fix it once its adjusted.
[23:58:48] <Topy44> lots of parts though :)
[23:59:10] <Topy44> think i need to sketch this up in CAD to explain...
[23:59:18] <Topy44> ah, another thing
[23:59:34] <Topy44> i am not really sure which type of linear rail system is suitable for me