#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-27

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[00:00:03] <fenn> the point of ABS is to maintain steering control, not stopping faster
[00:00:05] <furrywolf> lol
[00:00:08] <Sync_> it will allow a brake wedge to form
[00:00:22] <Valen> decent ABS will lock the wheels on gravel/dirt
[00:00:26] <Sync_> teves mk40 was capable of doing that
[00:00:32] <Sync_> 10 years ago
[00:00:36] <furrywolf> ok, so they've finally added a work-around to the problem. I've not driven a vehicle with it.
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[00:00:50] <furrywolf> I know my 2001 ABS pisses me off.
[00:01:05] <Valen> you often lock the wheels?
[00:01:40] <furrywolf> Valen: I often drive on roads with potholes where the wheels are not in continual contact with the road surface, and thus lock dozens of times in one stop.
[00:02:02] <furrywolf> in a non-ABS vehicle, this is not a problem.
[00:02:05] <furrywolf> in my van...
[00:02:27] <Valen> ABS should do good things for your stopping distance in that situation, though it may feel uncomfortable ;-P
[00:02:37] <Sync_> as I said, drive a vehicle with a capable abs
[00:02:50] <Valen> actually not much would help him in that situation
[00:02:59] <furrywolf> mostly I drive vehicles without ABS, and don't have problems. :P
[00:03:05] <furrywolf> of my five, only the van has ABS.
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[00:03:11] <Valen> if the wheel isn't in contact with the ground the ABS will unlock the wheel
[00:03:20] <zeeshan> furrywolf: the rx7 abs is the worst
[00:03:22] <zeeshan> but it is old tech
[00:03:25] <zeeshan> i had to chuck it out
[00:03:38] <zeeshan> it kicks in too early with 285 wide tires
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[00:03:52] <furrywolf> Valen: it takes the brakes off completely (only way to unlock a wheel that has no forces applied to it), then the wheel just spins when it makes contact again, doing no braking whatsoever until force is reapplied.
[00:03:52] <zeeshan> kinda scary
[00:04:21] <Valen> that is not how ABS is meant to work
[00:04:22] <Sync_> I should get my act together and finally finish my aftermarket abs controller
[00:04:36] <furrywolf> also, the ABS completely fucks up the pedal feel. you lose both feedback and the ability to correctly modulate the brakes.
[00:04:37] <sector_0> do you guys think 3d printed hardware is strong enough to be used to mill aluminum, without being inaccurate
[00:04:57] <Sync_> you are not supposed to modulate the brake when the abs is working
[00:05:03] <Valen> as soon as that wheel starts moving faster than those around it it should start working again
[00:05:14] <XXCoder> sector_0: maybe if bit thick design
[00:05:18] <Valen> Sync_: his ABS is triggering when it shouldnt
[00:05:21] <XXCoder> sector_0: though I would go wood first
[00:05:24] <zeeshan> sector_0: are you thinking of using abs plastic?
[00:05:54] <furrywolf> Valen: no, that's exactly how abs is meant to work. it's meant to keep the wheel spinning. if you have only a very light amount of force being applied to the wheel (barely touching), in order to get the wheel spinning, anywhere near the speed of the other wheels, it has to completely disapply the brakes.
[00:05:55] <Valen> driving over a dirt road where wheels sometimes come off the ground under modest braking the ABS will trip
[00:06:11] <Valen> yes, it will remove the brake from *that* wheel not all of them
[00:06:17] <sector_0> zeeshan, XXCoder well I'm not really planning anything at the moment, but I'm just looking at my option given what I have readily available
[00:06:27] <XXCoder> you has a 3d printer eh
[00:06:35] <sector_0> XXCoder, yep
[00:06:39] <Sync_> furrywolf: that is wrong, modern ABS will regulate pressure at the maximum wheel torque before it stalls
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[00:06:41] <XXCoder> ABS?
[00:06:43] <furrywolf> and then when the wheel makes contact again, there's a rather non-instant process where it applies more pressure until the wheel slows down again.
[00:06:54] <zeeshan> sector_0: abs is typical material -- just remember that aluminum is 23x stiffer than abs plastic
[00:07:00] <XXCoder> ABS plastic
[00:07:02] <Valen> I'd put that one down to your ABS
[00:07:04] <furrywolf> Sync_: if the wheel isn't touching, the maximum torque is ZERO.
[00:07:09] <Sync_> yes
[00:07:11] <zeeshan> which means you'll need to make the components significantly thicker/bigger to ensure they dont deflect as much
[00:07:12] <Sync_> so it releases
[00:07:16] <furrywolf> so it takes the brakes entirely off
[00:07:20] <XXCoder> zeeshan: and ribs I guess
[00:07:21] <furrywolf> (on that wheel)
[00:07:22] <Valen> modern ones modulate brake force several times per wheel rotation
[00:07:24] <zeeshan> yes
[00:07:25] <XXCoder> to stuffen it even more
[00:07:26] <Sync_> but it will regulate in 120ms again
[00:07:44] <zeeshan> XXCoder: im comparing solid chunks :)
[00:07:55] <Sync_> hence why there are high flow systems
[00:08:03] <furrywolf> heh, if you want crappy ABS, drive a '80s ford truck. The good news is virtually none of them actually have functional ABS anymore. lol
[00:08:05] <sector_0> XXCoder, zeeshan what if I reinforce it with epoxy?
[00:08:17] <zeeshan> sector_0: wont help
[00:08:19] <XXCoder> abs will still deform
[00:08:21] <zeeshan> epoxy is also about 23 x
[00:08:31] <zeeshan> er aluminum is about 23x stiffer than epoxy
[00:08:42] <sector_0> i see
[00:08:43] <zeeshan> you really need to give us more info :P
[00:08:48] <zeeshan> like what size end mill you want to use
[00:08:49] <XXCoder> you have to0 use quite thick abs, but it would be good enough for you to make replacement parts
[00:08:52] <zeeshan> how fast you want to use it
[00:08:53] <zeeshan> etc
[00:09:02] <zeeshan> cause that'll tell you approx what your cutting forces are
[00:09:08] <furrywolf> sector_0: Real mills are built from hundreds or thousands of pounds of cast iron.
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[00:09:11] <zeeshan> once you get forces, you can then worry about what to make things out of
[00:09:14] <XXCoder> zee is the expert one there
[00:09:28] <zeeshan> furrywolf: hes only cutting aluminum though
[00:09:31] <zeeshan> doesnt need all that mass
[00:09:33] <furrywolf> sector_0: they don't do this because they like charging high shipping fees.
[00:09:50] <Valen> my 1999 falcon doesn't have a problem on dirt roads
[00:09:58] <Valen> even with super washboard corrugation
[00:10:04] <zeeshan> valen are youj from australia?
[00:10:09] <XXCoder> sector_0: you plan to make aluminium parts for your mill when you make abs mill?
[00:10:10] <Valen> but then dirt roads are pretty common here
[00:10:11] <zeeshan> thats the only place in the world they drive falcons
[00:10:11] <zeeshan> haha
[00:10:14] <Valen> zeeshan yeah
[00:10:19] <fenn> a concrete frame with 3d printed nubbins would be an interesting compromise
[00:10:19] <zeeshan> nice
[00:10:21] <sector_0> zeeshan, XXCoder well I don't want a particularly big mill, just about a 20cm X 20cm x 20cm work area
[00:10:46] <furrywolf> "<Sync_> you are not supposed to modulate the brake when the abs is working" of course you are... what if you want to stop faster, or slower, or shift weight to the other axle, or get better steering, or all sorts of things? you're always varrying the pedal force.
[00:10:47] <XXCoder> sector_0: yeah abs wont cut it for permenet use
[00:10:53] <Valen> zeeshan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_(Australia)#/media/File:Hotness_touched.JPG is mine
[00:11:03] <zeeshan> very cool
[00:11:04] <XXCoder> but if its good enough to mill alum you can make alum parts for your machine right away
[00:11:08] <zeeshan> people modify those
[00:11:12] <zeeshan> and make them super quick
[00:11:23] <zeeshan> they are like the ford cosworth of australia
[00:11:26] <zeeshan> from what ive seen / heard
[00:11:30] <sector_0> XXCoder, well that's great then
[00:11:47] <sector_0> as long as I can bootstrap the process that's good enough
[00:11:53] <XXCoder> yeah
[00:11:55] <Valen> furrywolf: in general with ABS it is only meant to actuate when you would actually lock a wheel, so if you are trying for a straight line stop you should just plant the brakes and steer
[00:12:05] <Valen> your situation is special
[00:12:19] <Valen> zeeshan its 14 seconds from the factory in 1999
[00:12:28] <Valen> 4 litre inline 6
[00:12:32] <furrywolf> Valen: I'm not making a panic stop. lol
[00:12:35] <zeeshan> not bad
[00:13:15] <Valen> I've only unintentionally hit the ABS on my car a handful of times
[00:13:20] <furrywolf> I've lived on gravel roads the last three places I've lived...
[00:13:37] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you don't need abs
[00:13:39] <XXCoder> I havent drove on gravel road for long while now lol
[00:13:43] <Valen> (I do it every once in a while just to make sure I know its there and to practise braking)
[00:13:56] <zeeshan> data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxQSEhUUExQWFhUXFhcYFxgXFRgYHxoZFxUYFhcaGhgYHCggGBolHRgYIjEhKCkrLi4uFx8zODMsNygtLiwBCgoKDg0OGxAQGywmICQsLCwsLC0sLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLP/AABEIAMIBAwMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAABBQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMEBQYBBwj/xABAEAABAwIDBAgEBAQFBAMAAAABAAIRAyEEEjEFQVFhBhMicYGRobEywdHwI0JSYgcUkuEzcoLC8RVjorIWQ7P/xAAZAQADAQEBAAAAA
[00:13:59] <Valen> however the first time it tripped I was rather glad it had
[00:13:59] <zeeshan> link fail
[00:14:03] <zeeshan> http://www.jjscheckel.com/equipment/pictures/128-1.jpg
[00:14:04] <XXCoder> last time there was road that was being repaired, that was 5 years ago
[00:14:10] <zeeshan> you need that attachment for your f150
[00:14:15] <Valen> I had just got the car and it had 4 different tyres on it
[00:14:15] <zeeshan> with an electronic trigger
[00:14:21] <Sync_> zeeshan: not everybody can threshold brake
[00:14:22] <zeeshan> + g force monitor
[00:14:25] <Valen> like litterally 4 totally different tires
[00:14:44] <zeeshan> Sync_: i dont think anyone can threshold brake
[00:14:48] <zeeshan> you know why i think this?
[00:15:03] <zeeshan> when they introduced abs in f1, drivers got a lot faster
[00:15:08] <zeeshan> and these guys are the best in the world
[00:15:16] <Valen> zeeshan I used to, when I had my last car without ABS I would practise braking twice a week
[00:15:29] <Valen> they would get faster because they need differential brake forces
[00:15:49] <XXCoder> I only owned one car with abs
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[00:15:51] <fenn> zeeshan: with abs you can slam on the brakes instead of gradually increasing pressure until you reach the threshold, so it's faster in some situations
[00:15:55] <XXCoder> rest of em was regular
[00:15:56] <zeeshan> with older abs systems, i'd agree you could prolly outbrake the abs
[00:16:00] <zeeshan> but not modern systems
[00:16:15] <Sync_> on dry pavement it is easy
[00:16:20] <Valen> their ABS works much more like the electronic brake systems we were talking about before
[00:16:21] <Sync_> in the wet, not so much
[00:16:34] <furrywolf> I can't remember the last time I've locked my wheels on dry pavement other than testing brakes.
[00:16:36] <Valen> the ABS actually sets itself up differently for each corner in the track
[00:17:01] <zeeshan> furry you dont like my idea?
[00:17:06] <zeeshan> about the ripper attachement for your truck
[00:17:06] <XXCoder> quite a few times here, but I have very fast locked wheels solution, let brake go for millisecond as it rolls again then brake again
[00:17:13] <zeeshan> i was thinking about devising something like that for a car
[00:17:24] <zeeshan> the ONE USE TRUE emergency brake
[00:17:28] <zeeshan> it rips the road into pieces
[00:17:33] <zeeshan> but stops in 2 meters
[00:17:35] <zeeshan> :D
[00:17:41] <zeeshan> almost rips your eyes out of your sockets
[00:17:44] <furrywolf> heh, that just reminded me of another time my van's ABS pisses me off... there's a section of road I drive on every day where there's train tracks running down the middle of the road. if you brake while your wheels are on them, the ABS goes off, every time, as you don't have any grip on the narrow metal rail...
[00:17:48] <Sync_> it is also particularily tricky to brake a downforce carz zeeshan
[00:17:53] <furrywolf> well, every weekday - not usually on weekend.
[00:18:10] <Valen> XXCoder: that is the old "pulse breaking" technique, its how they used to teach people to drive
[00:18:13] <zeeshan> sync whatcha mean
[00:18:25] <furrywolf> zeeshan: kinda like the slot brake on a trolley car. it'll stop you, but you need a cutting torch to get moving again.
[00:18:28] <Valen> they would teach them to slam the pedal on, then release, then slam
[00:18:32] <XXCoder> zeeshan: massive bottom plate that suddenly slams on road and are really rough :P
[00:18:42] <Sync_> you are approaching a corner after a long straight
[00:18:42] <XXCoder> Valen: really? I figured it myself
[00:18:44] <zeeshan> XXCoder: would make a nice spark show too!
[00:18:47] <Sync_> maximum speed, maximum downforce
[00:18:50] <Sync_> thus maximum braking
[00:18:51] <Valen> furrywolf: yeah you have a crap ABS ;->
[00:19:05] <Sync_> but the maximum wheel torque decreases with lower speed
[00:19:07] <Valen> don't judge all ABS by them
[00:19:08] <furrywolf> Valen: talk to Ford. we can probably blame andy. :P
[00:19:12] <Sync_> thus you have to lift
[00:19:23] <XXCoder> Valen: normally I use increasing pressure to thesold, but emergacies is emergacy lol
[00:19:24] <Sync_> which is super tricky to do
[00:19:25] <furrywolf> Valen: my BMW's was much, much worse.
[00:19:34] <Valen> furrywolf: ABS in my similar vintage falcon is fine, blame ford america ;-P
[00:19:42] <zeeshan> Sync_: racing is intense :P
[00:19:52] <Valen> XXCoder: that's why in my non ABS cars I practise braking
[00:20:02] <furrywolf> Valen: I wonder if they have country-specific tunes, figuring that there's more gravel where you are?
[00:20:03] <Sync_> yes, but it explains why introducing ABS to formula cars makes them faster
[00:20:03] <Valen> if you don't practice a skill you will forget it
[00:20:12] <Valen> I believe that is the case yeah
[00:20:37] <zeeshan> i can only speak for myself sync..
[00:20:43] <zeeshan> i do a lot of track racing, im no professional
[00:20:45] <Valen> Sync_: it made F1 faster because they could get maximum breaking effort through the entire corner, without locking up the front inside wheel
[00:20:47] <furrywolf> Valen: Also, a car is very different than a van. I have an extended 1-ton superduty van, and with the back empty, it's some very stiff springs with no weight on them...
[00:20:48] <XXCoder> I usually test cars when I buy em see where thesold is, and various aspects like how hard acceration it has.
[00:20:58] <furrywolf> I don't do any racing at all. lol
[00:21:01] <zeeshan> but i know this much when driving on the street, i'm in "race" mode
[00:21:06] <zeeshan> so there are situations where i slam the brakes
[00:21:10] <zeeshan> and abs has saved my ass
[00:21:15] <furrywolf> although I do pass tourists on the inside of switchbacks on dirt roads. does that count?
[00:21:15] <Valen> heh those slide out if you sneeze at them
[00:21:25] <zeeshan> so no matter how well i can brake without abs in the rx7
[00:21:28] <malcom2073> Not in race mode??
[00:21:30] <zeeshan> in my daily driver car, i perfer abs
[00:21:31] <malcom2073> So when the car is off?
[00:21:36] <zeeshan> malcom2073: haha
[00:21:43] <XXCoder> Valen: one time I had to use it on my van. wow van is heavy and different. thankfully I figured escape route while I was still braking and BARELY dodged smashing into car.
[00:21:44] <furrywolf> lol
[00:21:51] <zeeshan> i'd be the last to admit that, but yes, not in race mode always :(
[00:22:09] <furrywolf> is that because your car is in a lot of pieces, and thus off? :P
[00:22:11] <Sync_> same here zeeshan
[00:22:16] <XXCoder> I went to left and stopped nose to nose to that car, and literally inches away. I couldnt move till that car moved away lol
[00:22:25] <zeeshan> my natural reaction in a emergency stop situation is steering like most people
[00:22:33] <zeeshan> and abs really helps with that
[00:22:43] <XXCoder> maybe 2 inches bwteen my van side and that car side lol
[00:22:47] <zeeshan> though i think track racing has helped me not oversteer too much
[00:22:52] <furrywolf> I got rear-ended last month by someone who never even touched their brakes. ABS sure didn't help them any. heh.
[00:23:01] <XXCoder> yeah
[00:23:03] <zeeshan> furrywolf: tht's your fault
[00:23:07] <Valen> yeah I'm glad I have ABS, makes driving much less skillfull on my part
[00:23:10] <zeeshan> you didnt have the ripper attachement that i suggested
[00:23:11] <zeeshan> if you did
[00:23:13] <XXCoder> cant do magic 0 force braking lol
[00:23:15] <zeeshan> she woulda been OWNED
[00:23:25] <zeeshan> so not only is it an emergency stop
[00:23:30] <zeeshan> it's a "FU" to people who rear end you
[00:23:34] <XXCoder> lol
[00:23:34] <zeeshan> i should patent the idea
[00:23:49] <XXCoder> "hmm new gouges on that thing, whtever. pity about your car.
[00:24:11] <zeeshan> :D
[00:24:34] <XXCoder> zee reminds me of one time my bro, driving old car, smashed into other car
[00:24:41] <XXCoder> its bumper was lowered maybe 1 inch
[00:24:46] <XXCoder> other car was totaled
[00:24:47] <furrywolf> speaking of oversteering, my subaru tends to "dig in" to sharp corners pretty heavily right now... I think it's the -1.5 degrees of camber. make sense, or am I way off?
[00:24:48] <zeeshan> rofl
[00:24:56] <zeeshan> musta been an old car XXCoder
[00:25:00] <XXCoder> it is
[00:25:05] <zeeshan> they are built like tanks
[00:25:15] <Valen> my car is so much lighter than modern ones
[00:25:18] <XXCoder> I smashed my head on front chair, had headache for a day after
[00:25:28] <zeeshan> aw
[00:25:32] <Valen> mine is ~1200kg, the new one of the same line is ~2000kg
[00:25:44] <zeeshan> Valen: i bet the new ones are safer :)
[00:25:51] <Valen> probably.....
[00:25:59] <zeeshan> they dont just add weight for no reason!
[00:26:08] <furrywolf> heh, I drove my subaru safely off the road... the bodywork is mashed into the tire, but it still drives. her car was TOTALLED. all over the road, parts everywhere, engine shot,... I think the only parts I lost from the subaru was one piece of trim and the light plastics... even '80s cars are a lot solider than modern cars.
[00:26:10] <XXCoder> zeeshan: it wasnt too bad, my later accient, lady smashed in my car so hard I was dizzy for 9 months
[00:26:26] <zeeshan> damn
[00:26:27] <zeeshan> concussion?
[00:26:32] <furrywolf> it's still totalled, but if you compared my car to her car, you wouldn't imagine it was the same collision.
[00:26:39] <XXCoder> xrays showed nothing
[00:26:52] <zeeshan> but during an accident
[00:26:55] <XXCoder> I still get dizzy sometimes
[00:26:58] <zeeshan> your brain slams against your skull
[00:27:11] <zeeshan> which is why driving a tank isn't good
[00:27:17] <XXCoder> furrywolf: yeah other car was 70s while my car is 80s
[00:27:26] <zeeshan> do you guys know about the steel they use in modern cars?
[00:27:28] <XXCoder> both pretty tough but her car was absically intact
[00:27:37] <zeeshan> i was absolutely amazed when i learned about it
[00:27:39] <zeeshan> TRIP steels
[00:28:14] <zeeshan> it transforms from austensite (very ductile) to martensite
[00:28:19] <XXCoder> zeeshan: just glad I turned so it was near T hit and not deadly 45 degree, I'd have died probably or seriously hurt
[00:28:19] <zeeshan> when you strain it really fast
[00:28:48] <zeeshan> so basically that means that a hood would crush easily for 40% strain
[00:28:55] <zeeshan> but suddenly become rock hard thereafter
[00:28:58] <furrywolf> what we really need, rather than improving cars, is to improve drivers. I vote we test everyone who see who can simply not notice that traffic has stopped on a straight stretch of road in bright sun, and execute them.
[00:29:15] <zeeshan> so it absorbs a lot of energy letting the car crush until you get the to the firewall
[00:29:17] <zeeshan> where it becomes rock hard
[00:29:17] <furrywolf> s/who see/to see
[00:29:37] <zeeshan> XXCoder: glad you're with us :)
[00:30:00] <XXCoder> zeeshan: interesting
[00:30:15] <zeeshan> it drives me insane when i see a body shop just weld a random piec eof steel
[00:30:15] <XXCoder> furrywolf: make driving test once per 10 years thing
[00:30:18] <zeeshan> to fix a structural component
[00:30:19] <zeeshan> :[
[00:30:25] <furrywolf> I was on a straight stretch of road. I'd come to a gradual stop over a distance of probably close to a quarter mile. There was other stopped traffic with me. It was 1pm on a clear sunny day. She simply DIDN'T NOTICE. We need to devise a test for these people, and remove them from the gene pool.
[00:30:33] <XXCoder> dunno if I would pass again LOL
[00:30:56] <XXCoder> furrywolf: my worse was one that drove out of parking. at 40 mph
[00:31:08] <XXCoder> he was doing faster than road speed limit in parking lot!!
[00:31:19] <XXCoder> he hit so hard tire touched engine
[00:31:20] <Sync_> zeeshan: look at how it changes to martensite with fatique stress
[00:31:24] <XXCoder> and it was 70s car
[00:31:29] <Sync_> like driving for a few 100kkm
[00:31:33] <furrywolf> XXCoder: that's an entirely different mental issue.
[00:31:38] <Sync_> ~fatigue
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[00:31:52] <zeeshan> never seen a study on that
[00:31:56] <zeeshan> just impact performance
[00:31:57] <XXCoder> I guess its 40 mph but pretty sure its faster
[00:32:06] <Sync_> also look at how copper messes the grain structure
[00:32:11] <furrywolf> my favorite steel is ford steel. ever look under the hood of a '80s or '90s ford truck? if the upper core support is still attached to the fenders, it's doing well. :P
[00:32:13] <XXCoder> fur glad I wasn't seriously affected though
[00:32:18] <zeeshan> Sync_: what is the point youre trying to make
[00:32:26] <Sync_> modern steels suck
[00:32:29] <furrywolf> I don't know if I've ever seen one of those trucks without fatigue cracks throughout the body.
[00:32:34] <furrywolf> even the doors grow them
[00:32:37] <Sync_> they are awesome but they suck
[00:32:47] <zeeshan> well tell that to all the car companies that are using them now
[00:32:56] <zeeshan> and made cars safer
[00:33:00] <Sync_> salzgitter compared an A6 new and after I think 450000km
[00:33:01] <zeeshan> why are you such a hater
[00:33:15] <Sync_> crash performance used was hilarious
[00:33:32] <zeeshan> 450,000 as far as im concerned is well past the life of a modern car
[00:33:33] <XXCoder> so far, I have experenced 2 major hit and runs, 4 very close calls (one of my my fault) and 5 very minor hits
[00:33:34] <furrywolf> XXCoder: you're lucky. I've been crippled for over a month now.
[00:33:52] <zeeshan> XXCoder: you need an alternative mode of transportation!
[00:33:55] <furrywolf> I mostly have feeling back in my leg...
[00:34:07] <XXCoder> yeah I consider myself lucky in that way.
[00:34:25] <XXCoder> not so lucky side? 2 fucking hit and run. most people dont even experence that once
[00:34:53] <Sync_> zeeshan: the copper thing leads to only new steel being able to be put in cars
[00:34:57] <Sync_> no recycled steels
[00:35:03] <furrywolf> XXCoder: my subaru has been hit while parked twice. once at the very back corner, once on the back side by the gas filler.
[00:35:09] <Sync_> as the copper content of car scrap is too high
[00:35:33] <furrywolf> XXCoder: the second time was bad enough to press the outer skin all the way into the inner skin, but no structual damage. I had to work a while to pound it back out and bondo it nice and smooth.
[00:35:48] <XXCoder> crazy
[00:36:18] <XXCoder> furrywolf: know whats weird thing? I got an accient on the FIRST day I ever drove with full license (not permit)
[00:36:20] <furrywolf> I was parked on the street on saint patrick's day. presumably a drunk driver. since all drunk drivers are fucking assholes and canidates for gene pool chlorination, it's not surprising he/she was too much of an asshole to stop...
[00:36:21] <zeeshan> Sync_: why cant you purify the steel?
[00:36:29] <zeeshan> most of that stuff floats up to as slag?
[00:36:39] <furrywolf> shouldn't the copper be part of the slag?
[00:36:45] <zeeshan> yea
[00:36:46] <XXCoder> some guy almost fell into road with bicycle but hit my car as I was passed. left 2 rubber marks. I may actually have saved his life
[00:36:49] <Sync_> because copper will contaminate it in ppm
[00:37:06] <zeeshan> so it sounds like you need more quality control
[00:37:08] <Sync_> and it is very difficult to get it that pure
[00:37:08] <zeeshan> when making it
[00:37:19] <Sync_> it makes it expensive and not environmentally friendly
[00:37:26] <Sync_> because you cannot use car scrap to cool the melt
[00:37:32] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jwVdFsoGo
[00:37:34] <just_pink> :(
[00:37:41] <Sync_> and it is too much hassle for the scrappers to remove wiring harnesses
[00:38:08] <zeeshan> hey if it makes cars safer
[00:38:10] <zeeshan> F the env
[00:38:11] <zeeshan> :)
[00:38:16] <furrywolf> Sync_: giant calutrons. can't get much purer than that. :)
[00:38:26] <XXCoder> furrywolf: yeah I still wonder once a while, even after hmm 12 years?
[00:38:44] <Sync_> crash performance is not limited by the steel zeeshan
[00:38:53] <zeeshan> ofcourse not
[00:38:57] <zeeshan> it is a big part of it though
[00:38:59] <fenn> i thought cars had aluminum crumple zones
[00:39:09] <zeeshan> crumple zone engineering is another big part
[00:39:54] <furrywolf> my truck has well-engineered crumple zones... whatever you hit, and whatever hits you. lol
[00:40:00] <XXCoder> just_pink: so when are you buying me that cnc machine? lol
[00:40:18] <zeeshan> fenn: http://www.drivealuminum.org/images/crushed-aluminum
[00:40:30] <zeeshan> the folds are directly proprotional to the energy absorbed
[00:40:30] <fenn> purty
[00:40:38] <zeeshan> thats an aluminum tube, (not the one we tested)
[00:40:40] <zeeshan> but it looks similar
[00:40:50] <PetefromTn_> just_pink why is that a frown?
[00:41:26] <XXCoder> its tapping so hard its smoking
[00:41:27] <furrywolf> that's pretty impressive. I'd imagine the tube would buckle then bend sideways unless constrained.
[00:41:47] <zeeshan> furrywolf: as far as i know only aluminum does this
[00:41:55] <XXCoder> interesting. I'd guess same
[00:41:56] <zeeshan> steel does what youre describing
[00:42:06] <just_pink> I'm still workin on the stack controller, and than I get this video.. :(
[00:42:12] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: aluminum lawn furniture does what I'm describing too. :)
[00:42:13] <Sync_> zeeshan: I'd rather have low alloy steels and a roll cage than highly engineered steels that you cannot repair
[00:42:14] <XXCoder> zeeshan: I guess due to properies of ductability and other factors
[00:42:32] <zeeshan> XXCoder: i have no idea why :(
[00:42:46] <zeeshan> Sync_: me too
[00:42:49] <furrywolf> the scariest thing I've seen was a crash test between a smart car and a mid-sized sedan (tempted to say it was a camry, but I don't remember for sure). don't ever drive a smart car.
[00:42:50] <zeeshan> i need to build a cage for the rx7
[00:43:03] <malcom2073> It get out often?
[00:43:12] <zeeshan> no
[00:43:19] <zeeshan> but when it does, its throttle 100%
[00:43:22] <zeeshan> :D
[00:43:25] <furrywolf> the sedan KEPT DRIVING STRAIGHT. with minimal damage. Its occupants underwent very little sudden change in direction. The smart car FLEW BACKWARDS. instantly.
[00:43:36] <Sync_> wow
[00:43:38] <Sync_> phyics
[00:43:41] <XXCoder> wow
[00:43:43] <Sync_> how they work
[00:43:51] <XXCoder> I would use professional driving belt on smart car
[00:43:59] <furrywolf> it's not safe to be on the road in anything that light. heh.
[00:44:07] <Sync_> it is very safe
[00:44:09] <zeeshan> furrywolf: let people drive smart cars
[00:44:09] <XXCoder> that cross both shoulder front resrant tyoe
[00:44:10] <zeeshan> and electric cars
[00:44:11] <XXCoder> type
[00:44:12] <zeeshan> !!
[00:44:50] <Sync_> furrywolf: crash a f350 into a camry and it will go flying the same way
[00:44:55] <zeeshan> in a car accident, it's one good place to be a fat
[00:44:56] <zeeshan> :)
[00:45:07] <XXCoder> Elio I can't wait to get one
[00:45:17] <XXCoder> wonder how it would handle being hit.
[00:45:45] <zeeshan> if it was upto me and legal and if i could fit one on the road
[00:45:47] <furrywolf> Sync_: injury is directly related to how quickly you change direction. the smart car quickly changed direction to a substantially negative velocity relative to its original direction. had a person been in it, their brain would have slammed their skull, and all sorts of bad things.
[00:45:49] <zeeshan> i'd be driving one of these : http://truckgps.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/caterpillar-797f.gif
[00:46:08] <zeeshan> shit even a a380 will have a hard time owning me
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[00:46:11] <furrywolf> while the camry driver would have pulled to the side of the road and gotten out.
[00:46:26] <Sync_> look at accident statistics
[00:46:33] <Sync_> for its class it is a very safe car
[00:46:53] <zeeshan> furrywolf: it's called G's you know
[00:46:54] <XXCoder> cutting 2 inches deep in steel dang
[00:46:55] <furrywolf> zeeshan: a few years ago someone here was killed in a full-size tractor. got rear-ended by a fully loaded semi. driver was distracted, never touched the brakes.
[00:47:05] <XXCoder> 7:00 or so at that video
[00:47:07] <furrywolf> so even a cat won't always save you.
[00:47:17] <zeeshan> furrywolf: the key is to have the biggest and heaviest vehicle on the road
[00:47:21] <zeeshan> :)
[00:47:29] <XXCoder> just get a tank
[00:47:34] <furrywolf> I saw the aftermath... it ripped the tractor in two. it was not pretty.
[00:47:35] <zeeshan> or go VERY FAST
[00:47:37] <zeeshan> p = mv
[00:47:40] <zeeshan> simple equation
[00:47:46] <zeeshan> need mass and velocity!
[00:47:46] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msPrOIAVUZo
[00:48:00] <furrywolf> zeeshan: unfortunately that same equation applies to your internal organs as well.
[00:48:08] <zeeshan> yes
[00:48:13] <XXCoder> we REALLY need integal fields
[00:48:16] <zeeshan> that's why you gotta sure nothing suddenly changes your momentum
[00:48:18] <Sync_> you can withstand substantial forces internally
[00:48:20] <zeeshan> aka deceleration
[00:48:27] <XXCoder> interion cancelling
[00:48:38] <zeeshan> XXCoder: that is my most favourite video
[00:48:45] <zeeshan> wait thats not it
[00:48:49] <XXCoder> so that was you
[00:48:52] <Sync_> although it feels really weird when your lungs hit your ribs from the inside
[00:48:56] <zeeshan> its the guy who goes on a rampage -- he's a welder
[00:49:05] <XXCoder> lol
[00:49:08] <zeeshan> he puts like 2" thick plate on his backhoe or something
[00:49:22] <furrywolf> it's sad how many accidents are caused by people simply failing to notice stopped/slowed traffic, even on clear days on straight roads... we really need some gene pool chlorination.
[00:49:34] <XXCoder> psh that video guys literally driving tank
[00:49:38] <XXCoder> smasling cars and stuff
[00:49:54] <XXCoder> not even police could stoip it
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[00:50:30] <furrywolf> the guy in the tractor was on a straight stretch of highway, a couple miles of clear road, sunny day... he had his lights on, orange warning signs, and everything... despite being visible for several miles, the driver of the semi never noticed he was there.
[00:50:46] <furrywolf> just like when I got rear-ended... at least I got hit by a volvo, not a semi...
[00:51:10] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I hate driving in rainy days.
[00:51:12] <furrywolf> my neighbors have been rear-ended twice, last time was about a year ago... they were stopped at a red light, had been for about 20 seconds... person never touched the brakes then either.
[00:51:17] <XXCoder> theres always in least 3 damn accients at i5
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[00:51:22] <fenn> can someone explain why you would need a chain-based tool changer with what appears to be hundreds of slots
[00:51:33] <zeeshan> fenn: for production
[00:51:35] <furrywolf> fenn: when you have hundreds of tools, duh.
[00:51:37] <XXCoder> rain = slack roads idiot drivers
[00:51:46] <zeeshan> for example sometimes we had 10 of the same tool
[00:51:55] <zeeshan> these machines ran 24 hours
[00:52:11] <zeeshan> you'd go inside a room with the tool changer which had multiple racks
[00:52:17] <zeeshan> and without stopping the machine, you could load more tools up
[00:52:29] <XXCoder> theres few at work like that
[00:52:32] <XXCoder> largest has gundreds of tools
[00:52:36] <zeeshan> yea dude!
[00:52:37] <XXCoder> it mills titanium usually
[00:52:38] <zeeshan> they are so cool
[00:52:52] <fenn> the one in the video is all one chain, not separate racks
[00:52:53] <furrywolf> in just about every rear-end accident I've seen or heard of, the person NEVER NOTICED stopped traffic. Where are their brains such that they can not notice what's happening in front of them, sometimes for several minutes straight?
[00:52:53] <zeeshan> its scary as shit going in there to change a tool while the machine is live though
[00:53:26] <zeeshan> furrywolf: its called being human
[00:53:33] <zeeshan> people freeze, just like deer when something shocking happens
[00:53:44] <XXCoder> zeeshan: jeeez! none of machines I saw has room for that
[00:53:47] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: nothing shocking has happened yet.
[00:54:01] <furrywolf> they're just driving around completely oblivious to the road in front of them.
[00:54:02] <XXCoder> and one with hundreds of tools theres seperate computer that can take tool out for you
[00:54:04] <zeeshan> XXCoder: to be honest, i wasn't into machining that much back then, was just a job -- i totally forgot the name
[00:54:10] <zeeshan> i've tried to look for it, but icant find it
[00:54:15] <zeeshan> i thought it was by mori seiki
[00:54:20] <zeeshan> but it's not
[00:54:36] <furrywolf> hrmm, we need some kind of test for that... some type of red flag that randomly springs out of the road on the highway. if you hit it, a cop walks over and shoots you.
[00:55:01] <malcom2073> bwahahaha
[00:55:02] <malcom2073> that's awesome
[00:55:19] <XXCoder> lol fur
[00:55:21] <fenn> furrywolf: why not fully automate the system and just toss barrels of mercury fulminate onto the road
[00:55:33] <furrywolf> road safety will improve dramatically, quickly.
[00:55:39] <zeeshan> furry will be victim number one of that device
[00:55:44] <zeeshan> :D
[00:55:54] <XXCoder> furrywolf: what if flags pops up IN my van engine as I drive by
[00:56:17] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I don't drink, don't use drugs, don't use the cell phone while driving, and pay attention to the road.
[00:56:24] <zeeshan> Lies
[00:56:32] <zeeshan> im sure you've been distracted by a bug before
[00:56:37] <zeeshan> you're not super human
[00:56:53] <furrywolf> if you let a bug cause you to kill some innocent person, you deserve it.
[00:56:53] <XXCoder> heh one time I was driving with cake on passager side
[00:57:10] <zeeshan> no ones innocent
[00:57:10] <zeeshan> :D
[00:57:11] <malcom2073> furrywolf: has obviously never had a bee fly up his shorts while driving
[00:57:16] <zeeshan> haha
[00:57:17] <XXCoder> as I was turning into road it almostb fell off, I went to catch it, almost smashed into other car
[00:57:22] <XXCoder> next tume fuck the cake
[00:57:23] <zeeshan> dude once i had a spider
[00:57:29] <zeeshan> just literally string down in front of my face
[00:57:32] <zeeshan> what a fucker
[00:57:38] <zeeshan> i think it was purposely trolling me
[00:57:47] <furrywolf> heh, all my vehicles have spiders.
[00:57:53] <furrywolf> they eat the annoying bugs!
[00:58:09] <zeeshan> yea well this troll spider got me good that day
[00:58:14] <zeeshan> i had to manage to pull over somehow
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[00:58:35] <XXCoder> zeeshan: http://theoatmeal.com/pl/minor_differences3/bee
[00:58:53] <zeeshan> exactly lol
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[00:59:43] <XXCoder> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/minor_differences3 the full comic
[01:00:17] <Tom_itx> what would cause IO pins to toggle randomly in the Hal Configuration Watch window?
[01:00:49] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: noise!
[01:01:14] <furrywolf> think about the guy on the tractor that got killed... the semi driver should have seen him SEVERAL MINUTES in advance. a straight road for 5+ miles, 10+ mile visiblity, brightly colored tractor with warning signs and strobes... there's no bee in the truck that causes you to keep driving 75mph for several minutes without ever glancing out the windshield.
[01:01:38] <Tom_itx> none of the other IO do that
[01:01:40] <XXCoder> furrywolf: probably rubbing off while driving
[01:01:43] <XXCoder> seruously dunno
[01:01:56] <malcom2073> There's two kinds of people who are in accidents: Those not at fault, and those who lie about why it happened
[01:02:38] <furrywolf> lol
[01:03:09] <XXCoder> this is utterly true. http://theoatmeal.com/pl/minor_differences2/locker_room
[01:03:35] <furrywolf> same thing when I got hit last month... straight road, excellent visibility, and I'd slowly stopped and had been stopped, with other stopped traffic that had stopped even earlier... she must have spent at least 30 seconds without looking out the windshield.
[01:04:23] * furrywolf has never been in a room with naked men
[01:04:48] <XXCoder> trust me, for some reason older people stop giving fuck
[01:05:00] <XXCoder> which means evenually I wont :P
[01:05:54] <fenn> XXCoder: eat plenty of salmon to help your brain heal, if you aren't already
[01:05:56] <zeeshan> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/spindle-taper-repair-122416/
[01:05:57] <zeeshan> wow
[01:05:57] <zeeshan> rofl
[01:06:02] <zeeshan> frank mari is the man
[01:06:06] <furrywolf> XXCoder: I've never given much of a fuck. heh.
[01:06:32] <XXCoder> lol
[01:07:08] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: noise!
[01:07:09] <zeeshan> :P
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[01:14:53] <furrywolf> that's a pretty ugly taper.
[01:15:39] <furrywolf> I need to do that to my old craftsman drill press. the chuck spun in the spindle at some point.
[01:15:51] <furrywolf> but it's a bit harder without xyz. lol
[01:16:12] <fenn> you can buy morse taper reamers for about $20 from enco
[01:17:02] <fenn> ugh they changed the website to require javascript
[01:18:35] <fenn> ok enco only has $50 ones now
[01:22:26] <fenn> has anyone here built machines from concrete before?
[01:23:46] <fenn> i'm interested in all the devilish details
[01:24:24] <fenn> there's a lot written about "polymer concrete" but i'm not really sure what that means.. also "epoxy granite" which is completely different
[01:25:32] <fenn> also wondering about how severe the post-cure warping is over time
[01:25:35] <CaptHindsight> acrylated concrete
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[01:26:48] <furrywolf> epoxy granite has come up numerous times in here. I'm not convinced it's cheap.
[01:26:54] <just_pink> In EDM machining what make the machining more efficient, the current or the voltage?
[01:26:56] <fenn> it's definitely not cheap
[01:27:06] <fenn> epoxy is like $100/gal
[01:27:43] <CaptHindsight> nah few $/lb for epoxy
[01:28:15] <CaptHindsight> epoxy granite is ~10% epoxy
[01:28:23] <just_pink> In EDM machining what make the the machining more efficient, the current or th voltage
[01:28:35] <CaptHindsight> density of the epoxy is also ~1 - 1.1
[01:29:43] <fenn> $100/gal is $10/lb so not that far off
[01:30:08] <just_pink> It is really depends on the type of the epoxy
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[01:30:49] <CaptHindsight> just_pink: you mean like 5 minute vs plastic epoxy?
[01:32:21] <zeeshan> just_pink: what do you mean by more efficient?
[01:32:31] <zeeshan> more mateerial removal rate?
[01:32:39] <just_pink> some resins are very expensive. you can see here, http://www.fibreglast.com
[01:32:53] <just_pink> zeeshan: yes
[01:33:24] <just_pink> for 100W EDM to go with 100V 1A or 1V 100A
[01:33:26] <fenn> each spark has a certain amount of charge (number of electrons) so the current is proportional to the number of sparks per second
[01:33:37] <fenn> more current means faster material removal rate
[01:35:18] <fenn> the voltage is a function of the gap between the part and electrode, and the dielectric fluid. a higher voltage means more energy goes into each spark, but it would seem to me (a wild guess) that there is a minimum energy required to vaporize the surface layer of material, and any more than that is waste
[01:35:56] <zeeshan> just_pink: 1v 100A
[01:36:28] <zeeshan> you'd be better with 1nV 100A
[01:36:39] <zeeshan> in my honest opinion
[01:37:31] <fenn> looks like actual edm machines use something like 100V
[01:38:41] <zeeshan> i did a small presentation abotu this a while back
[01:38:44] <zeeshan> a forced one that we had to do
[01:39:06] <zeeshan> my understanding was that you want to minimize the gap , you want a short pulse of high current
[01:39:31] <zeeshan> the voltage has to be just sufficient enough to allow a spark to be made
[01:39:42] <zeeshan> if you have too much gap or voltage
[01:39:47] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Cn0WRXPKs CNC Epoxy Granite
[01:39:48] <just_pink> and what is the best method to mether the spark gap and keep constant spark gap all the time (except of the finishing pass)
[01:39:51] <zeeshan> you get too much stray sparks which hurt finish and precision
[01:41:18] <zeeshan> the best method is to not mess with edm
[01:41:24] <zeeshan> and finish your stack light
[01:41:51] * Tom_itx has an idea about the IO
[01:41:57] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: noise
[01:42:04] <Tom_itx> don't think so
[01:42:04] <zeeshan> is it just one input doing it
[01:42:09] <Tom_itx> 4
[01:42:13] <zeeshan> which 4 specifically
[01:42:18] <Tom_itx> but the differential side has resistors on it
[01:42:23] <Tom_itx> they may be too strong
[01:42:32] <Tom_itx> 5 7 9 11
[01:42:37] <zeeshan> that doesnt help!
[01:42:39] <zeeshan> what are they for
[01:42:50] <Tom_itx> switching my pendant axis
[01:43:02] <zeeshan> did you hal scope em up
[01:43:05] <zeeshan> to see whats up
[01:43:13] <Tom_itx> just hal show
[01:43:19] <just_pink> zeeshan: but I want to add EDM capabilities to the machine.
[01:43:20] <zeeshan> scope it
[01:43:34] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure how to trigger the scope and set it up
[01:43:48] <zeeshan> pop up hal show
[01:43:50] <zeeshan> op up halscope
[01:43:59] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna go off my hunch here and see something
[01:44:01] <zeeshan> asap you notice the change in hal show, trigger it manually
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[01:53:14] <just_pink> why the EDM electrod go up and down and get pulses of power?
[01:54:51] <fenn> i dont get why he has huge blocks of iron inside the epoxy granite casting
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[01:55:33] <furrywolf> I'm sure google will answer all your questions about things that start pulsing after they go up and down enough.
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[02:14:55] <Tom_itx> zeeshan
[02:14:59] <zeeshan> hi
[02:15:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/bitfiles/Screenshot-HAL%20Oscilloscope.png
[02:15:25] <Tom_itx> those are inputs
[02:15:37] <zeeshan> holy moly
[02:15:43] <zeeshan> they are really triggering like crazy!
[02:15:44] <Tom_itx> i tried 2 different 7i90 boards with same result
[02:16:04] <zeeshan> one interesting thing to note is
[02:16:16] <Tom_itx> IO9 doesn't change
[02:16:24] <zeeshan> the pulses are the same for those 3 that are changing
[02:16:31] <Tom_itx> yeah
[02:16:40] <zeeshan> you should send me a .txt
[02:16:45] <zeeshan> of all the data points
[02:16:46] <zeeshan> ill FFT it
[02:16:51] <furrywolf> what are these pins connected to?
[02:16:52] <zeeshan> we can see right away if its noise
[02:16:57] <zeeshan> anmd where it's coming from
[02:17:09] <Tom_itx> not sure what you're after
[02:17:25] <zeeshan> is there anyway to dump that into a log file
[02:17:28] <zeeshan> that output from halscope
[02:17:34] <Tom_itx> no clue
[02:17:35] <zeeshan> whats it say under file
[02:17:37] <fenn> the frequency will give hints as to the source of the noise/crosstalk
[02:18:06] <Tom_itx> it's all that's left to get this mill working
[02:18:20] <Tom_itx> i ran my test rigid tap program and it worked ok
[02:18:26] <furrywolf> what are they connected to, and do you have a non-hal 'scope to compare to?
[02:18:30] <Tom_itx> it's just the pendant jog that doesn' work right
[02:18:41] <Tom_itx> i have a scope yes
[02:18:48] <zeeshan> furrywolf: hal scope shows it so well though
[02:18:49] <Tom_itx> not gonna dig it out though
[02:18:55] <zeeshan> you can see all 3 channels going through the same thing
[02:18:59] <furrywolf> so all three pins have the same noise? have you checked ground and power supply?
[02:19:08] <zeeshan> i want the DATA!!!
[02:19:10] <Tom_itx> multiple times
[02:19:11] <zeeshan> i wanna FFT this!!
[02:19:20] <Tom_itx> not sure how to save that
[02:19:26] <zeeshan> what does it say under file
[02:19:29] <zeeshan> im not near my linuxcnc box
[02:19:47] <CaptHindsight> when i was kid all we had were SFT's :)
[02:19:55] <Tom_itx> i'm about to wrap it up for tonight though
[02:20:06] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: you did em by hand eh!
[02:20:10] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: what's on pin9?
[02:20:11] <Tom_itx> arm is giving out... been struggling with a pinched nerve
[02:20:19] <zeeshan> doh
[02:20:25] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, it's the axis select for X Y Z A
[02:20:28] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: with a slide rule if we were lucky
[02:20:32] <Tom_itx> those 4 IO
[02:20:34] <zeeshan> hehe
[02:20:54] <Tom_itx> i could have the logic inverted for the pulses to it
[02:20:56] <furrywolf> is this a pendant you built?
[02:21:03] <Tom_itx> yes
[02:21:12] <Tom_itx> and it worked but i had to remap all the IO
[02:21:20] <Tom_itx> and the logic inverted for alot of it
[02:21:39] <Tom_itx> but i made progress tonight.
[02:21:47] <Tom_itx> i'll pick it up again later
[02:22:13] <furrywolf> it's odd for noise to be so similar on multiple inputs... is the encoder supposed to put out anything that's pulses of some form?
[02:22:17] <Tom_itx> the other pendant buttons work ok as well as the MPG
[02:22:43] <Tom_itx> i'll figure it out
[02:22:54] <Tom_itx> but it _is_ odd
[02:23:02] <furrywolf> what function are those three pins?
[02:23:08] <Tom_itx> it wasn't one thing i suspected
[02:23:19] <Tom_itx> not gonna keep repeating it
[02:23:31] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, it's the axis select for X Y Z A
[02:23:49] <furrywolf> oh, I thought that was just what pin9 was, since that's what he asked.
[02:24:02] <Tom_itx> it's the only one that doesn't switch
[02:24:26] <furrywolf> did you disable the pullups on the mesa board?
[02:24:51] <Tom_itx> yes
[02:24:57] <Tom_itx> i might have missed one
[02:25:01] <Tom_itx> i'll double check
[02:25:11] <furrywolf> sure you don't want them enabled?
[02:25:26] <Tom_itx> err not the pullups rather the terminators on the 7i47
[02:25:38] <Tom_itx> pullups are probably enabled still
[02:28:19] * furrywolf googles a 7i90 manual
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[02:29:21] <naja452> Hello
[02:29:37] <Tom_itx> all default jumpers on the 7i90
[02:30:26] <furrywolf> looks like the pullups can't be disabled, so there goes that theory.
[02:30:55] <zeeshan> hi
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[02:30:56] <zeeshan> f6t5
[02:31:00] <zeeshan> wtf why is this tube so hard to find
[02:31:02] <zeeshan> locally.
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[02:31:17] <Tom_itx> it will be some silly thing i'm sure
[02:32:25] <furrywolf> they just run straight to a rotary switch to select the axis?
[02:32:35] <naja452> Anyone ever had trouble with EMC2 not coming back to the same spot after doing an all-axis move?
[02:32:51] <furrywolf> naja452: you're probably losing steps
[02:33:05] <fenn> Tom_itx: check for loose chips and wires shorting something in the pendant
[02:33:06] <zeeshan> servo stepper?
[02:33:09] <naja452> quick ways to tell?
[02:33:22] <naja452> stepper
[02:33:26] <furrywolf> quickest way to tell is it doesn't go back to the same spot if you go back and forth. :P
[02:34:01] <naja452> the short of it is I amm doing a routing job with a v-bit
[02:34:05] <furrywolf> you could also have a loose shaft coupler, timing pulley, etc, causing it to slip mechanically
[02:34:20] <naja452> the whole job (5000ish lines0 goes swell
[02:34:32] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, yes
[02:34:35] <furrywolf> do you get any realtime errors?
[02:34:46] <Tom_itx> fenn, i will
[02:34:53] <naja452> then when you get tot sharpening up the corners with the vbit it falls down through the work as it goes around the part to all the corners
[02:34:55] <Tom_itx> done for this evening though
[02:35:33] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: and which pin stays high is the one that's selected correctly?
[02:35:49] <Tom_itx> not sure
[02:36:04] <Tom_itx> it should switch but 9 stays high
[02:36:12] <Tom_itx> the others follow the switch
[02:36:27] <Tom_itx> but have the noise present
[02:36:58] <furrywolf> hrmm. it could just noise, but that's a lot of noise. how far is the board from the switch?
[02:37:00] <Tom_itx> i'll go thru all the connections tomorrow
[02:37:22] <Tom_itx> 3' maybe
[02:37:23] <furrywolf> that is, a few inches, or many feet?
[02:37:29] <Tom_itx> shielded cable
[02:37:45] <Tom_itx> all my cables are shielded now
[02:37:51] <furrywolf> that should be fine.
[02:37:53] <Tom_itx> even the stepper power
[02:38:16] <furrywolf> try putting some beefy pullups/pulldowns at the switch end, after verifying that the one that you switch to starts reading correctly.
[02:38:58] <Tom_itx> i will methodically check it tomorrow
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[02:39:19] <Tom_itx> arm is giving out so i'm gonna go
[02:39:19] <zeeshan> https://www.lowes.ca/fluorescent-light-bulbs/ge-6-watt-t5-9-in-fluorescent-light-bulb_g1201693.html?ProductSlot=3
[02:39:20] <zeeshan> found it!!!!!!!!1
[02:39:41] <furrywolf> cyas
[02:40:21] <archivist> naja452, if the cutter is getting blunt at the end of a job forces are higher and stalling the motors more likely, is it only on one axis, a sign of a mechanical problem
[02:40:55] <furrywolf> naja452: is this a homemade machine?
[02:41:01] <naja452> I am cutting mdf currently so dulling of the cutter is not really a factor
[02:41:20] <furrywolf> zeeshan: are those hard to find? lol
[02:41:20] <naja452> nope, its a knee mill from the 60s that I converted to CNC
[02:41:25] <zeeshan> furrywolf: apparently man
[02:41:33] <zeeshan> walmart doesnt have em, home depot doesnt
[02:41:36] <zeeshan> canadiantire
[02:41:43] <zeeshan> if its not at these 3 stores, i consider em rare :P
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[02:42:00] <Tom_itx> oh.. it was doing it with the pendant unplugged too so it's something on the 7i47 board probably
[02:42:02] <furrywolf> naja452: ok, so you can be pretty sure the head is square with the table, then. :)
[02:42:15] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: have them configured as outputs for something? lol
[02:42:36] <naja452> Yup :) the whole thing is pretty darn square
[02:42:40] <furrywolf> oh, with the 7i90 entirely unplugged?
[02:42:40] <furrywolf> or am I mis-interpreting your layout?
[02:42:49] <zeeshan> furrywolf: his arm is gone
[02:42:52] <zeeshan> dont make the poor guy type
[02:42:52] <zeeshan> :P
[02:43:04] <archivist> naja452, is the spindle fast enough for a small bit
[02:43:21] <furrywolf> naja452: what size steppers did you use?
[02:43:23] <archivist> is the material moving
[02:43:25] <naja452> stock no, the vfd gets it to 10,000 though
[02:43:28] <furrywolf> naja452: and are you getting any realtime errors?
[02:43:30] <Tom_itx> 7i90 alone is fine
[02:43:54] <archivist> you dont get realtime errors on a stepper cogging
[02:44:20] <naja452> I'm fairly new to CNC, Im not sure waht you mean by realtime errors
[02:44:34] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: hrmm, I must be stupid, then, because I thought the 7i47 was the rs422 board, and the 7i90 was the one you actually connected things to...
[02:45:07] <furrywolf> naja452: does linuxcnc pop up a big box saying realtime error either when you start it or when you run your code? I'm going to guess not, since you'd probably know what it was, then. :)
[02:45:27] <archivist> naja452, a realtime error shows as a message on screen
[02:45:41] <naja452> nope, no errors, only "line 11 out of limits bla bla bla"
[02:45:56] <naja452> thats my fault though
[02:47:03] <furrywolf> what size steppers did you use?
[02:47:08] <archivist> accelerating too fast is a common reason and a top speed setting too high are reasons for stepper cogging too
[02:47:17] <naja452> Nema 23 I think?
[02:47:33] <naja452> rated at like 280oz/in?
[02:47:33] <furrywolf> steppers losing steps generally makes a pretty distinctive noise, but I don't know how to describe it other than the sound of a stepper losing steps. :)
[02:47:38] <furrywolf> ... on a knee mill?
[02:48:06] <archivist> they may well struggle on a big machine
[02:48:13] <furrywolf> I used nema 34 at 900oz/in for my tabletop mill.
[02:48:18] <archivist> are they geared down
[02:48:53] <furrywolf> is this a tabletop machine, or something that needs a forklift to move?
[02:49:05] <naja452> That might be it, I had some 34s but no drivers that could do 7 amp. on the 4amps
[02:49:17] <naja452> oh, it needs a tow truck
[02:49:26] <naja452> it weighs 4.2 tons
[02:49:27] <furrywolf> ok... so you're probably losing steps from having undersized motors.
[02:49:38] <furrywolf> you can try turning your axis maximum speeds and acceleration down
[02:50:09] <furrywolf> yeah. you don't use nema23 steppers for a 4.2ton mill. nema23 is what people with plastic 3d printers use, or little sherline mini-mills.
[02:50:31] <furrywolf> I've lost steps on the nema23 steppers on my sherline, and it weighs 25lbs. :)
[02:50:57] <furrywolf> for a 4.2ton machine, I'd suggest spending the money for a servo setup.
[02:50:59] <naja452> fair enough, Guess I just have to drop the money on more drivers.
[02:51:24] <archivist> or gear the stepper to screw to gain more torque
[02:51:32] <furrywolf> that's bigger than stepper territory. even with some good nema34 motors, you'll still end up with really slow rapids.
[02:51:37] <naja452> what does a servo setup start around, just vuague ballpark
[02:51:46] <furrywolf> naja452: way too much. :)
[02:51:51] <furrywolf> I've never bought one, out of my budget.
[02:52:22] <fenn> i'm going to toss out the hypothesis that it's the power supply that is undersized, and the all-axis move is drawing more than the power supply can ... supply
[02:52:22] <archivist> servo is the right way on larger mills
[02:52:27] <naja452> Is the real benafit just closed loop?
[02:52:45] <furrywolf> I have name-brand nema34 900oz-in steppers, running at 9A/phase, on my chinese lathe/mill combo tabletop machine.
[02:52:56] <archivist> far more acceleration available usually
[02:53:02] <furrywolf> and it's still too slow!
[02:53:18] <furrywolf> steppers are a lot faster and higher torque. you get both at once.
[02:53:29] <Tom_itx> phone update fckd up all my settings....
[02:53:33] <fenn> wait, are they really nema23 steppers?
[02:53:50] <furrywolf> for now, rerun the config, and set your maximum speed lower, and your maximum acceleration much lower.
[02:53:52] <archivist> the available overload during acceleration with servo is useful, none available on a stepper
[02:54:00] <naja452> ok, well. I have things to think about. Thanks!
[02:54:27] <furrywolf> the torque available from a stepper is much higher at low speeds, so if you limit your speeds and acceleration, you're less likely to lose steps.
[02:54:50] <archivist> the feedback in a servo system tells you when a axis could not keep up
[02:54:57] <furrywolf> are you moving a quill or moving the knee up and down?
[02:55:12] <naja452> quill
[02:55:29] <furrywolf> ok, so at least you're not trying to move a half ton with one of those steppers. :)
[02:55:42] <fenn> i am amazed it works at all
[02:56:05] <fenn> naja452: what is the number of steps per inch? or what is your gear ratio
[02:56:36] <fenn> just curiosity
[02:56:43] <naja452> Well, the ways are all pristine, I could drag a 1/2" cutter 1/2" deep in AL turning the screws with my fingers
[02:57:06] <naja452> 200steps/in
[02:57:42] <fenn> it's direct drive on a 1TPI screw?
[02:57:43] <furrywolf> naja452: a lot of it is acceleration... the tables are heavy, and the little motors can't get them up to speed quickly. setting your acceleration lower might fix your issue.
[02:58:32] <furrywolf> naja452: when you go to reset the maximum speed and acceleration, use the axis test feature to run each axis back and forth. see how high you can get it, then make sure the values you set as the maximum are substantially lower.
[02:58:35] <naja452> its more like 1/4 per turn
[02:58:59] <archivist> then 800 steps per inch
[02:59:26] <archivist> still coarse
[02:59:52] <furrywolf> which makes it even harder on the motors
[03:02:53] <archivist> at the upper torque limits, couplings start to slip on motors too
[03:03:27] <furrywolf> I ground flats on everything for mine. heh.
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[03:04:40] <naja452> Ill have to put flats in mine eventually
[03:05:13] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64MB1V07Clg I need this fourth axis tombstone action in my life LOL
[03:05:20] <furrywolf> yes, at the same time you're installing much larger motors.
[03:05:27] <furrywolf> don't they look tiny stuck to a machine like that? :)
[03:05:53] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: have a pic of one of your servo motors handy?
[03:06:07] <furrywolf> zeeshan:
[03:07:56] <naja452> Yeah, they do I guess.
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[03:08:29] <XXCoder> blackout wheeee
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[03:12:24] <XXCoder> so, what did I miss lol
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[03:33:53] <just_pink> Someone know about sort midi sounds for notification?
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[03:40:09] <fenn> nice, deburring brush in the toolchanger, that's smart
[03:49:54] <just_pink> fenn: I think I've show here aluminum parts that I'm brashed on the cnc machune,
[03:55:17] <PetefromTn_> I saw that too pretty cool I would like to know the name of that tool or where you can get one..
[04:03:00] <just_pink> PetefromTn_: I'm using 4" black and decker brush from walmart
[04:03:51] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: once saw one machine that used dermel as tool
[04:04:11] <XXCoder> used spindle to angle it and dermel to drill side holes
[04:04:21] <XXCoder> how inception-like
[04:07:50] <PetefromTn_> for a deburring tool?
[04:09:18] <PetefromTn_> I have seen guys in the shops I work in create custom CNC turned mandrels that held stacked 3M red scotch brite pads for certain work/projects but that is different from that brush in the video that MUST have been some sort of abrasive bristle or abrasive impregnated bristles or something to work at all..
[04:10:12] <PetefromTn_> or are you guys just talking about chip removal or something?
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[05:27:15] <XXCoder> wow!
[05:27:16] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxQ_NH4bj9o
[05:27:20] <XXCoder> very different cnc
[05:34:37] <XXCoder> another one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UmL7xZZSUk
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[06:09:13] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32IPBmcwplQ nice! lol
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[06:14:54] <archivist> as bad as the little horrors here getting their balls back
[06:15:47] <XXCoder> lol
[06:16:04] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfxdeRx2fLA interesting video
[06:25:26] <XXCoder> glad it went okay
[06:25:31] <XXCoder> man it could be nasty
[06:25:36] <XXCoder> like crashing into driving car
[06:25:45] <XXCoder> he was wise to try aim to park trees
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[06:36:45] <bobby_> hey ppl
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[07:06:21] <Deejay__> moin
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[07:10:02] <XXCoder> hey
[07:10:11] <Deej_ay> greetings
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[07:16:34] <XXCoder> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150726-new-ikea-hack-lets-you-create-a-3d-printer-enclosure-for-cheap.html
[07:16:45] <XXCoder> it could work for small router too lol
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[07:51:09] <Deej_ay> hihi, nice idea
[07:54:55] <XXCoder> yeah
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[08:00:21] <archivist> visit the local DIY cutting dept scrap bin might get enough wood/mdf to make
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[08:03:12] <XXCoder> I guess thats possible but not planning to build one
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[08:44:40] <XXCoder> someone menioned someone using dozer and welding 2 inch steel to make a "tank". http://www.cracked.com/article_16611_5-real-world-criminals-who-were-certified-supervillains.html
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[09:37:17] <Loetmichel> 2 inch mild steel? thats not a tank
[09:37:28] <Loetmichel> thats a armored transport at best
[09:38:35] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: it was two layers
[09:38:42] <XXCoder> with THICK concerete in between
[09:39:15] <XXCoder> they fired 200 rounds and all it did was damage it a little. It wasn't designed to allow person to exit once entered and sealed too
[09:39:33] <XXCoder> so it ended with sucuide
[09:40:33] <XXCoder> it was largely sealed too so gas couldnt affect him
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[09:43:43] <Loetmichel> i've read it now
[09:43:53] <Loetmichel> pretty impressive if misguided
[09:44:02] <XXCoder> yeah way overreaction
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[09:45:00] <Loetmichel> one thinks the easiest way to sop something like this would be to enguld it in fure supressant foam untoil the engien dies
[09:45:10] <Loetmichel> engulf
[09:45:17] <XXCoder> not bad idea
[09:45:26] <Loetmichel> i doubt he had enough oxygen for him AND the engine
[09:45:40] <XXCoder> there is lots anti-oxygen gas or powder too
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[09:46:10] <XXCoder> other way is hyrogen. lots of it
[09:46:14] <XXCoder> it would ruin enginbe
[09:47:18] <XXCoder> pure oxy would work for that too I guess
[09:47:30] <XXCoder> it would get engine way out of balance and shut down
[09:47:43] <XXCoder> maybe enough time to do other stuff like foam pumping
[09:48:12] <Loetmichel> fire supressant foam is readily aviable to any fire truck
[09:48:13] <XXCoder> or maybe some of those expanding foam
[09:48:16] <Loetmichel> thats why i had that idea
[09:48:21] <XXCoder> try fill engine part with it
[09:48:41] <XXCoder> it would block some stuff as well as GREAT insulator. you do not want em around engine.
[09:48:45] <Loetmichel> just enguld him in a HUGE pile of it
[09:48:58] <Loetmichel> engulf
[09:49:06] <XXCoder> yeah short term disable would work so more time to spray tons of em
[09:49:26] <Loetmichel> those foam throwers even have a somehwat long throw so you dont hafe to get too near to the guns
[09:49:33] <XXCoder> yeah
[09:49:59] <XXCoder> wonder if huge surge of electicity would work
[09:50:22] <XXCoder> damage stuff as probably guy
[09:50:37] <Loetmichel> farady cage
[09:50:39] <Loetmichel> wont work
[09:50:50] <Loetmichel> +a
[09:51:41] <Loetmichel> other option would be to order a m1 abrams from the next army station to do the job
[09:51:46] <Loetmichel> somewhat terminal tho
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[09:52:27] <XXCoder> or maybe enough to kill one track
[09:52:33] <XXCoder> that';d stop it dead
[09:52:37] <XXCoder> then foam bomb it
[09:52:53] <Loetmichel> or an a10-C do a strafe ;-)
[09:53:03] <Loetmichel> (maybe quicker at the place)
[09:54:29] <XXCoder> on that same article theres few other wtf ones too
[09:56:03] <Sync_> I'd probably just have gotten some concrete crash barriers and piled them
[09:56:23] <XXCoder> it has machine guns
[09:56:30] <XXCoder> get close enough and it shoots
[09:56:53] <XXCoder> before you wonder, it had few cameras too
[10:03:32] <Sync_> yeah but it is pretty predictable where he can go
[10:03:40] <Sync_> so you can just slowly block him in
[10:04:00] <XXCoder> yeah
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[10:47:38] <trentster> howdy all - should there be any voltage bleed back between external drivers e.g. leadshine units back to a breakout board or controller
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[10:49:23] <trentster> I noticed the other day when I was doing some linuxcnc vs grbl performance testing that even with external power 5v uplugged - the arduino or breakoutboard was getting powered when the drivers where on
[10:49:35] <trentster> where = were on
[10:50:11] <trentster> the drivers are connected to 48V power supply and the spindle is also connected to its own 48V power supply
[10:50:49] <trentster> Is this normal or should all input pins by default be protected by a diode that only allows power to flow in 1 direction?
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[10:51:41] <SpeedEvil> trentster: 'all' ICs have internal static protection diodes - or parasitic diodes.
[10:52:05] <SpeedEvil> this means that if you supply an input while the device is unpowered, they will all get current routed to the supply pins.
[10:52:17] <SpeedEvil> In some cases this will be enough to make the device function.
[10:52:26] <SpeedEvil> In others, it will damage the pin.
[10:53:46] <trentster> SpeedEvil: so its considered normal then?
[10:54:24] <SpeedEvil> trentster: If there is a 5V output from the spindle/... to the arduino, then it may be powered to a degree
[10:54:29] <trentster> and in other words having drivers powered on while having breakout board psu off is dangerous
[10:54:55] <SpeedEvil> It's not good practice, and to decide if it's safe requires an in-depth study of stuff that is often poorly specified
[10:54:59] <trentster> SpeedEvil: yeah there is 5V from arduino to spindle
[10:56:00] <trentster> ok time for me to rewire my kill switch (emergency stop) I normally use this to switch machine off and on - but dont have it cutting 5V PSU to arduino or breakout baord.
[10:56:20] <trentster> guess this was a dumb mistake - assumption was that I didnt need to
[10:56:25] <trentster> ;-)
[10:56:49] <SpeedEvil> It is hard to say if it's absolutely required.
[10:57:05] <trentster> So the only rule is that there are no rules :P
[10:58:49] <SpeedEvil> The rule is that the rules are obscure and often poorly documented.
[10:59:08] <trentster> I actually dont trust this cheap chinese spindle driver - it sometimes goes into fault mode as well (red error light) which is kind of a pita when a "M3 S12000" command gets sent and it does nothing
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[10:59:55] <trentster> The rule is "ask in this channel and normally someone a lot smarter than me knows the answer" :-)
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[11:10:50] <archivist> stepper drivers of any quality have an opto input there is no possibility of voltage feedback with those
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[11:12:04] <archivist> leadshine being a better make, so if you think you are measuring a voltage I bet its a ground loop of some sort (common mode current)
[11:13:19] <trentster> archivist: its probably from the spindle driver
[11:13:36] <archivist> I had to look inside a leadshine to debug why a crap breakout board did not drive the leadshine properly
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[11:14:36] <archivist> spindle drivers should also be opto isolated for safety
[11:15:15] <archivist> this can sometimes be done on the breakout board
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[11:16:50] <archivist> this means some effort in diagnosis of current paths
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[11:34:58] <trentster> archivist: its never easy mate, is it! - sigh ;-)
[11:35:02] <trentster> multimeter time
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[11:35:28] <trentster> *trentster pulls out the fluke out its holster and gets ready for action*
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[11:36:36] <archivist> I use a Solartron
[11:36:54] <archivist> or some cheap crap to hand
[11:37:25] <trentster> I used cheap crap first time - second time bought a fluke - got a good deal on it
[11:37:39] <trentster> you need a decent multimeter for electronics stuff generally
[11:38:01] <trentster> next project will be building a cheapie oscilloscope - dont have money for expensive stuff
[11:38:12] <Sync_> buy a rigol
[11:38:16] <Sync_> it will be cheaper after all
[11:38:53] <trentster> Sync_: yeah lot of people rave about the Rigols, especially after firmaware hack whic doubles the Hz rating
[11:39:43] <archivist> second hand scopes are usable for repair/diagnosis
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[11:40:14] <trentster> analog scopes are pretty good for most things - just that tube is hardcore tho
[11:40:28] <Sync_> there is no point in getting something second hand or analog anymore
[11:40:40] <trentster> Sync_: why?
[11:40:59] <Sync_> because for general applications just getting a rigol is sufficient
[11:41:17] <Sync_> and they are cheap enough
[11:41:29] <archivist> never as cheap as free
[11:41:47] <Sync_> sure but I would not take an analog scope for free
[11:41:48] <archivist> not everyone can afford new
[11:42:01] <trentster> Sync_: They are still pretty expensive like a couple hundred bucks right?
[11:42:18] <archivist> I use analogue more often than digital
[11:42:36] <archivist> and I have both
[11:42:42] <trentster> archivist: do you have a digital if not makes sense.
[11:42:55] <trentster> you only have a choice to use analog :P
[11:42:59] <Sync_> they are like 350€
[11:43:42] <archivist> I have 8 channel digital HP and others
[11:44:25] <trentster> Sync_: thats still a ton of money for a lot of folks
[11:44:27] <archivist> 4 scopes in use at the moment
[11:45:10] <archivist> my combined digital logic analyser and digital scope was a freeby too :)
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[11:45:17] <archivist> old HP
[11:45:51] <trentster> archivist: a freeby - you must teach me that trick, does it involve bolt cutters and a balaclava ?
[11:45:56] <Sync_> maybe trentster, but still cheap enough to be affordable, saving up to 350€ is not that hard
[11:46:41] <archivist> trentster, nope, all legit, thrown out as old crap from a running company
[11:47:02] <trentster> Sync_: I guess if its the only thing a person is saving for - I think I will save for a 2.2Kw spindle + VFD before that tho…
[11:47:02] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2006/2006_04_09_skeleton_base/P4082268.JPG
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[11:48:06] <Sync_> ah those
[11:48:44] <archivist> just moving my gear about, fired it up for the first time in nearly 10 years a few days ago
[11:49:06] <Sync_> I just bought a mdo3104, seems to be pretty decent
[11:49:12] <archivist> noisy fan grrrrrr
[11:50:17] <archivist> often use an old Advance scope for about the house work
[11:51:00] <Sync_> the only annoying thing are the tekvpi probes
[11:51:13] <Sync_> and that they are software crippling the things, too
[11:51:25] <Sync_> but I guess that is to be expected in the low/mid range
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[11:52:52] <archivist> one of my old Teks has passed on, a storage 7613 mostly works except the storage :)
[11:53:57] <archivist> but I like old stuff http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=lounge+electronics+bench
[11:57:13] <Sync_> I started throwing out a lot of old stuff because modern equipment can do it in a lot less space
[11:57:53] <Spida> trentster: a cheap oszilloscope like the red pitaya? ( http://redpitaya.com/ )
[11:57:57] <trentster> Sync_: which Rigol do you suggest ?
[11:58:08] <Sync_> ds1054z
[11:58:15] <Sync_> Spida: that is not a real scope
[11:59:17] <trentster> Really high end scope :P http://makezine.com/projects/sound-card-oscilloscope/
[12:00:51] <archivist> under the floor low end
[12:03:50] <trentster> it beats having nothing and using ESP I suppose
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[13:25:28] <CaptHindsight> "Ryan Slaugh is a hardware and software engineer with over 15 years of experience designing and building different systems. While he has a few college degrees," he still posted this pic as an example of his skills http://i1.wp.com/cdn.makezine.com/uploads/2014/08/herocrop.jpg?resize=620%2C439
[13:26:55] <CaptHindsight> the pots were scrounged from a 1965 Admiral TV and the soldering iron used is a 150W Craftsman Pistol from 1972
[13:27:34] <furrywolf> lol
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[13:29:28] <SpeedEvil> What skillz
[13:31:05] <furrywolf> perhaps that's the most complicated thing he's built?
[13:32:03] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/ww1.jpg there's something I made way-back-when, speaking of '70s skills. :P
[13:34:14] <archivist> one needs skillz for crocodile clipz
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[13:38:30] <skunkworks> never got into wirewrap
[13:38:47] <skunkworks> I would etch my own boards.
[13:40:05] <CaptHindsight> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Computerplatine_Wire-wrap_backplane_detail_Z80_Doppel-Europa-Format_1977_%28close_up%29.jpg
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[13:41:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.homebrewcpu.com/Pictures/fp_wire_wrap_side.jpg those were the days
[13:42:30] <archivist> ratus nestus
[13:48:59] <ssi> morn
[13:49:33] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cincinnatimi/AcramatiV.JPG
[13:49:55] <ssi> skunkworks: that's what the back of my HNC control looked like :P
[13:50:08] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: does it still run?
[13:50:13] <skunkworks> I am trying to find the picture of the K&T..
[13:50:15] <skunkworks> no
[13:50:24] <skunkworks> well - it did until we scrapped it.
[13:50:40] <CaptHindsight> what was the timer for?
[13:51:03] <skunkworks> I don't remember. oiler maybe
[13:51:21] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/431058_808115768072_823586676_n.jpg?oh=68dd9d389265d2e9603284b12c73ee52&oe=56485EB7
[13:51:25] <ssi> there's the HNC
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[13:54:45] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/control.jpg
[13:55:13] <ssi> scurry
[13:55:28] <CaptHindsight> most of those wires are just for show anyway :)
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[14:04:39] <CaptHindsight> archivist: you had 405 line and then later went to 625 line TV?
[14:04:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.oldtechnology.net/mono.html
[14:05:45] <ssi> oh god we're all doomed
[14:05:46] <ssi> http://makerplane.org
[14:05:53] <archivist> CaptHindsight, yes
[14:06:28] <archivist> CaptHindsight, I have an old 1956 TV in the loft
[14:06:34] <CaptHindsight> ssi: the problem might fix itself
[14:06:41] <ssi> :D
[14:06:51] <ssi> ffs
[14:06:57] <ssi> they designed a stick shaker
[14:07:08] <ssi> small airplanes don't need stick shakers
[14:07:39] <ssi> stall causes a buffet which you can feel in the controls... the reason big jets have stick shakers is because they have hydraulically actuated controls which don't allow any feel back up through the system
[14:07:46] <ssi> the shaker simulates the feel of the stall
[14:08:56] <archivist> CaptHindsight, when I was a lad I was fixing that stuff :)
[14:10:33] <CaptHindsight> archivist: was the 625 backwards compatible or did they just change to 625 PAL and leave 405 behind?
[14:11:19] <archivist> CaptHindsight, we had dual standard TVs for a long time during the transition
[14:11:34] <furrywolf> I seem to remember reading that not avoiding, not noticing, and not getting out of stalls was one of the major causes of ga accidents...
[14:11:36] <CaptHindsight> oh I see now 405 on VHF, 625 UHF
[14:12:02] <archivist> even some studio cameras were dual standard
[14:12:03] <furrywolf> or doing stupid things like deciding to pull back on the stick and hold it there was the right way to get out of a stall.
[14:12:06] <ssi> yeah but it's mostly the base to final stall spin accident pattern
[14:12:17] <ssi> and that's mostly because people are idiots and they have shitty instructors
[14:12:52] <furrywolf> of course, like too many sites with "maker" in the name, they can't even make a working website.
[14:12:57] <ssi> point is, yo dawg I built a stick shaker so you can shake your stick while the stick is shaking
[14:13:04] <furrywolf> if you can't write a website, I'm not running your avionics software.
[14:14:54] <furrywolf> lol, and they tell you that in order to use their website, you need to have a current version of firefox. I have a new version of firefox.
[14:15:21] <Sync_> ssi: yeah in most small planes a stick shaker is complete bullshit
[14:15:36] <CaptHindsight> ssi: weren't there a lot of accidents when ultralights were first popular?
[14:15:51] <ssi> ultralights still have a crappy accident record
[14:15:58] <Sync_> there still are, as people in ultralights don't know how to fly
[14:16:00] <ssi> there's no training requirement for them, so that math is pretty easy to do :)
[14:16:10] <Sync_> and some of the ultralights have ugly performance
[14:16:18] <CaptHindsight> I recall lots of deaths due to stalls on first flights
[14:16:42] <ssi> that's likely failure to observe CG limits on first flight
[14:16:46] <furrywolf> I think part of that is this country's definition of ultralight being a lot lighter than everywhere else, resulting in fragile construction to stay under the weight limit.
[14:16:48] <furrywolf> bbl
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[14:20:03] <CaptHindsight> archivist: same here, we used to build antennas to try and get stations from outside the general coverage area
[14:21:08] <CaptHindsight> archivist: approaching storms at night would sometime get us stations from >100 miles away
[14:21:16] <archivist> CaptHindsight, I hacked the 405 to go up to 819 to see french tv, managed for a second or two at most
[14:22:00] <archivist> some sunspot activity would get much further
[14:22:28] <CaptHindsight> archivist: similar here, sometimes it lasted for hours
[14:28:13] <ssi> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/155820066/belite-skydock
[14:28:20] <ssi> wow that one actually isn't some sort of makerjoke
[14:29:49] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[14:29:53] <SpeedEvil> It's not 3d printed
[14:30:13] <ssi> correct!
[14:30:23] <CaptHindsight> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-lego-aircraft#/story
[14:30:39] <CaptHindsight> stays safely on the ground
[14:30:56] <ssi> lolol
[14:31:27] <ssi> they want 1.3 million dollars for that?!
[14:31:39] <CaptHindsight> $1,300,000 USD goal "we need more than 800'000 lego pieces"
[14:32:26] <ssi> imagine if these morons put their time and energy to use on practical things
[14:32:55] <CaptHindsight> I keep saying that but "you can't tell me what to do"
[14:33:53] <ssi> lolol
[14:36:17] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[14:36:19] <SpeedEvil> Lacking ambition.
[14:36:29] <SpeedEvil> Full-sized lego replica of the ncc-1701d
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[14:37:50] <CaptHindsight> parts of the problem is when parents treat their kids like everything they do is perfect, even their "perfect" poops are saved in a museum case
[14:38:08] <CaptHindsight> how does one learn about quality?
[14:46:14] <archivist> hehe parents polishing the kids turds
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[16:05:51] <zeeshan> whats with the million of wires going in both your machines ssi and skunkworks
[16:08:41] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: in ye olden days of CNC it was more common to make low volume circuits in that fashion
[16:09:26] <zeeshan> o
[16:11:27] <CaptHindsight> circuits made with tubes would often try to only have components soldered to the sockets and not a pcb
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[16:13:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.junkbox.com/electronics/6T9AmpUnderChassis.jpg
[16:14:14] <archivist> far too tidy, you should see a KB colour tv done that way
[16:14:57] <CaptHindsight> heh, i tried to find pics
[16:15:50] <archivist> the dual standard mono http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/kolsterbr_aristocrat_wv70.html?sa=X&ved=0CCAQ9QEwBWoVChMIqozWudr7xgIVAo7bCh1EYAnq
[16:16:18] <ssi> zeeshan: wire wrap backplanes like that are what they used instead of a motherboard
[16:16:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.antiqueradio.org/art/PilotFirstLook05.jpg
[16:16:32] <ssi> the whole control is just 5V ttl logic cards, and they're wired together with wirewrap
[16:17:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.jameco.com/jameco/workshop/techtip/wirewrap.html Wire Wrapping: Cleaner, Faster, Safer Electronic Design LOL
[16:20:04] <zeeshan> im glad i havent dealt wit hthat shit
[16:20:12] <CaptHindsight> archivist: when each set has 8+ knobs to adjust horiz, vert, etc
[16:21:20] <archivist> the internal setting up of the philips colour convergence had around 30 things to adjust in a darkened room
[16:22:43] <archivist> bar steward to work on http://www.philipstv.org.uk/blog/early-philips-colour-tv/g6/g6-chassis-design/?sa=X&ved=0CBYQ9QEwAGoVChMIhLqehdz7xgIVYSrbCh1ekg-n
[16:23:02] <CaptHindsight> ~1980 the monitors in video game consoles had no convergence adjust, we used to do it with a glue gun and magnets stuck to cardboard
[16:23:52] <kanzure> CaptHindsight: sorry about the lack of progress in hplus
[16:24:23] <archivist> I remember one bad day of about 3 hours at a customers house
[16:24:38] <CaptHindsight> kanzure: no problem, you know where to find me
[16:25:44] <kanzure> CaptHindsight: i wish this technology was easier, but it's not. like, if we were doing dna hybridization arrays, i think your plan would have been fine.
[16:25:46] <CaptHindsight> archivist: then you turn the set 90 degrees and it's all back out again :)
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[16:26:43] <archivist> magnetic radiator on the domestic heating system
[16:30:43] <CaptHindsight> archivist: we'd hot melt small magnets between the yolk and the crt taped to cardboard so you wouldn't get zapped poking it around
[16:31:06] <CaptHindsight> yolk/toke
[16:31:14] <CaptHindsight> yoke
[16:31:18] <ssi> get it right!
[16:31:26] <CaptHindsight> need new fingers
[16:32:12] * furrywolf needs a new back
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[16:38:44] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: diddn't you say you just bought some piano hinges
[16:39:58] <furrywolf> just is now two months ago, but yes.
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[17:04:06] <lair82> cradek, I am going to run that bisect, between 2.6.5 and 2.6.6. Which release should I be in when doing this? and I need to re-compile after between each of the bisect's correct?
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[17:08:31] <SolarNRG> hi guys I'm no longer working with 1mm stainless, it's a pain in the a$$ to weld without burning holes in. I've now sourced some 316l 4mm thick stainless and I've been using the 2mm welding rods up to this point at 90 amps, I'm now on 3.5mm stainless rods what ampage is optimal so I don't spatter too high or stick too low?
[17:08:40] <SolarNRG> I'm guessing 110amps but I wanted to hear your input
[17:08:53] <SolarNRG> Cos I'm broke I only got 7 3.5mm welding rods so I have to ration them careful
[17:09:49] <CaptHindsight> lair82: did you ever find out what was eating your data on the HD?
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[17:10:52] <SolarNRG> anyone in here does stickwelding of stainless?
[17:12:53] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: copper backer block
[17:13:31] <MrSunshine> https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t34.0-12/11780493_10153475483803648_1207733343_n.jpg?_nc_eui=AWh37j89bmRQCjIsywYrRNgfAJXHux0wnc-0SQ&oh=1638b14280988ea2d0e1c01d66d6b25d&oe=55B940B2 that will have to do ... cant get this freakin alu any chinier :/
[17:13:39] <MrSunshine> shinier
[17:17:27] <archivist> what metal polish
[17:17:52] <archivist> and file out the hammer marks before polish :)
[17:18:27] <MrSunshine> hammer marks are intentional =)
[17:18:42] <MrSunshine> 2000 paper then autosol and then rubbing
[17:20:34] <MrSunshine> aluminium is a freakin nightmare ive found ... scratches if you fart :P
[17:23:08] <PetefromTn_> looks nice man!
[17:23:20] <PetefromTn_> what sort of amp is that?
[17:23:30] <MrSunshine> single ended tube amp its supposed to become
[17:23:57] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[17:23:59] <MrSunshine> gonna go to the guy helping me with the black magic tomrrow =)
[17:24:13] <PetefromTn_> ?
[17:24:16] <MrSunshine> so hopefully will get sound out of it by tomorrow night
[17:24:22] <MrSunshine> PetefromTn_: tubes are frekkin black magic
[17:24:27] <ssi> nahh
[17:24:29] <MrSunshine> electrozisers jumping in air
[17:24:37] <PetefromTn_> gotta put the sound in it before you can get it out hehe
[17:24:37] <MrSunshine> transistors atleast are connected
[17:24:46] <MrSunshine> PetefromTn_: wtf ...
[17:24:49] <MrSunshine> no one told me that :/
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[17:25:04] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[17:25:49] <MrSunshine> probably will scratch the plate up tomorrow as the holes for the sube sockets mounting isnt done .. as i want to see from what angle the most of the orange glow will show the most =)
[17:26:10] <MrSunshine> will have to put some tape on when drilling or something
[17:26:32] <ssi> MrSunshine: https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/p206x206/1601249_10100298818941952_1146233300_n.jpg?oh=68705da71c18f3b8411d39ccae535a19&oe=5614C387
[17:26:39] <ssi> MrSunshine: https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/1495198_10100298818897042_727989213_o.jpg
[17:27:10] <MrSunshine> =)
[17:27:11] <MrSunshine> cool
[17:28:17] <SolarNRG> SpeedEvil, good suggestion but I don't have one, I know there's one in the power station, but I'm not touching it unless I can isolate the power
[17:28:23] <archivist> MrSunshine, dont miss steps when going up the wet and dry grades and 3M produce some even finer for very good polish
[17:28:24] <zeeshan> i have 2x 2" face mills on their own .75" shank shell mill holders
[17:28:45] <SolarNRG> also I'm broke and I can't afford to simply buy one
[17:29:06] <PetefromTn_> meh I have polished TONS of aluminum over the years and seldom used more than three different grades....
[17:29:26] <zeeshan> is there any reason to keep around a .5", 1" and 1.25" shell mill holder?
[17:29:31] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vFuuBM9.jpg
[17:29:35] * zeeshan ios trying to empty tool rack
[17:29:40] <archivist> MrSunshine, https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/micron-paper-3m
[17:29:44] <MrSunshine> ive used 320, 400, 600, 1200, 2000 and then autosol like 3 times in different configurations and then rubbing on that
[17:30:15] <SolarNRG> PetefromTn_, same here worked with 3 types of ally, I know there are other specialized types of ally like Al-LI, aluminium lithium I nearly bought an offcut for 150 bucks once jsut to see what it was like but I ended up spending the money on something else when I had it, that was a long time ago
[17:30:21] <PetefromTn_> often just a good buffing wheel will take care of things after a good scuffing
[17:30:29] <archivist> the white 3m gets a mirror finish
[17:31:29] <archivist> I keep that for best, autosol for the ordinary jobs
[17:32:07] <archivist> and for cast iron, let the paper fill then it polishes
[17:32:09] <MrSunshine> i guess i can dry polish it later, wont be able without soldering to remove the top from it again after tomorrow =)
[17:33:41] <archivist> the rag/whatever matters when using autosol, some can scratch
[17:34:13] <archivist> kitchen roll paper can be abrasive
[17:35:20] <MrSunshine> using micro fibre
[17:35:41] <ssi> zeeshan: you can send them to me
[17:35:58] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: any chunky bit of copper or aluminium
[17:36:12] <SpeedEvil> Aluminium isn't as good, but works fine
[17:37:08] <SolarNRG> I got aluminium 1mm sheet and I got aluminium pipe again 1mm oh and I have beer cans <1mm
[17:37:24] <SolarNRG> I got loads of steel and stainless tho
[17:38:19] <SolarNRG> I know where there is a big copper bus bar but I won't even touch it because there's like lots of power going across/thru it
[17:38:40] <SolarNRG> all i no is if i touch it i might go bzzz bang
[17:38:51] <zeeshan> ssi fu
[17:38:52] <zeeshan> lol
[17:38:55] <SolarNRG> and even if i did take it out I'd be without power so I wouldn't be able to weld
[17:39:00] <zeeshan> im just wondering if ill ever need these for a bigger face mill
[17:39:14] <zeeshan> bigger face mills dont make sense to me for a home shop cause like you can do the same thing with a fly cutter
[17:39:17] <zeeshan> its just slower
[17:39:58] <ssi> baw
[17:40:14] <ssi> I have like a 2" facemill on R8
[17:40:17] <ssi> I need to get a CAT40 one
[17:40:25] <ssi> maybe a big bastard, 4" or so
[17:40:42] <zeeshan> hmm
[17:40:45] <zeeshan> why though
[17:40:50] <zeeshan> why not flycut it?
[17:40:53] <ssi> MRR :D
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[17:41:00] <zeeshan> yea but youre not doing production
[17:41:02] <zeeshan> does it really matter?
[17:41:07] <ssi> it always matters
[17:41:10] <zeeshan> convince me to sell this
[17:41:10] <zeeshan> haha
[17:41:13] <zeeshan> not keep em!
[17:41:22] <archivist> cylinder head facing
[17:41:36] <zeeshan> you could do it with flycutter archivist
[17:41:41] <ssi> facemills are more repeatable than flycutters
[17:42:02] <archivist> except when you have a crappy mill
[17:42:33] <zeeshan> fak it ill keep em
[17:42:37] <ssi> mail them to me
[17:42:37] <zeeshan> =/
[17:42:41] <ssi> hurryyyyy
[17:42:51] <archivist> we got a saw tooth form, spindle was not perpendicular
[17:42:52] <zeeshan> this means i need more cat40 tool rack holders
[17:43:01] <PetefromTn_> he never had any intention of selling them this was just his way of showing off heh
[17:43:12] <ssi> lawl
[17:43:13] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: no, i am cleaning up rack space
[17:43:17] <zeeshan> i actually mounted all pull studs
[17:43:19] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I'm flying my deathtrap to the bahamas on thursday :D
[17:43:19] <PetefromTn_> uh huh
[17:43:20] <zeeshan> indexed all my tools
[17:43:27] <zeeshan> and getting rid of stuff that has no pull studs
[17:43:38] <archivist> get mooooore studs
[17:43:42] <zeeshan> they are $$$
[17:43:47] <zeeshan> i dont wanna waste $ on studs right now
[17:43:50] <zeeshan> or another face mill
[17:43:52] <PetefromTn_> ssi good luck maybe you can spot those poor kis on the way over..
[17:43:53] <zeeshan> i need a real cnc lathe first
[17:43:53] <archivist> you do!
[17:44:04] <ssi> heheh
[17:44:17] <ssi> it's gonna be scary
[17:44:21] <ssi> 340nm of open water
[17:44:41] <PetefromTn_> dontcha just fly south and then turn left?
[17:44:51] <ssi> bahamas is east of florida
[17:45:07] <zeeshan> fly through the bermuda triangle
[17:45:10] <zeeshan> lemme know what happens
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[17:45:20] <ssi> it's not really a thing anymore
[17:45:22] <PetefromTn_> yes I know I lived in South florida most of my life and been to Bahamas a number of times
[17:45:22] <ssi> since gps happened
[17:45:31] <zeeshan> shure
[17:45:39] <zeeshan> http://www.history.com/news/ask-history/files/2014/01/bermudatriangle.jpg
[17:45:42] <zeeshan> this is what happens to planes there
[17:45:51] <ssi> lol
[17:45:52] <zeeshan> they get sucked in by a massive random gaping hole in the ocean
[17:46:06] <ssi> I'm willing to take that risk :)
[17:46:09] <zeeshan> hehe
[17:46:34] <PetefromTn_> I have always wanted to sail there
[17:47:31] <MrSunshine> 340 nanometers of open water ?
[17:47:35] <MrSunshine> now thats some ocean!
[17:47:39] <ssi> yeah should be quick
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[17:57:09] <naja452> Hello all
[17:58:17] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, you know where all those wires go ehh?
[17:58:31] <Tom_itx> wow, scrollback sure bit my arse today..
[17:59:22] <skunkworks> Tom_itx, yes
[17:59:23] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/panel/electricalbox.jpg
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[18:01:51] <archivist> that is like one picture tilted on a wall want to move the bottom middle right thing
[18:02:29] <naja452> Archivist : you online?
[18:02:50] <archivist> mebe
[18:03:05] <PetefromTn_> lol
[18:03:26] * archivist slowly shuffles stage left
[18:03:28] <naja452> Lol, ok. Remember my weird step jumping issue last night?
[18:03:57] <archivist> and is it fixed
[18:04:41] <naja452> Nope, i have confirmed 100% it is not skipping steps though. Nothing skipping.
[18:04:58] <archivist> and any pictures of the machine and the motors
[18:05:05] <naja452> I also did accel tests, nothing is jumping slipping or otherwise misbehaving.
[18:05:15] <archivist> how can you be so sure
[18:05:47] <archivist> I come at this with bitter experience
[18:06:18] <archivist> do all the testing but real life is not the same when machining
[18:06:23] <naja452> I homed it to a spot on the bed the whipped it around really fast on all axis. Sent it home. Perfectly aligned
[18:07:00] <archivist> no cutting load, now dump a large item on the bed
[18:07:03] <Tom_itx> did it go an inch when you told it to go an inch?
[18:07:37] <Tom_itx> my dogs usually find their way back home too
[18:07:50] <zeeshan> yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy
[18:07:55] <zeeshan> i found more deckel pull studs!!!!!!!!!
[18:08:05] <Tom_itx> you hope
[18:08:29] <Tom_itx> maybe i can find the source of my digital noise later today
[18:08:32] <archivist> eg I tested with what I thought was an excess load http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=cnc+pd+load
[18:08:46] <Tom_itx> then i think i'll have the control whipped
[18:08:54] <zeeshan> archivist: can i have those v blocks
[18:08:59] <zeeshan> i actually need large ones like that
[18:09:07] <archivist> but under real world conditions with an unbalanced load there was step loss
[18:09:24] <archivist> n bloody o
[18:09:47] <zeeshan> mean
[18:09:48] <zeeshan> so mean
[18:10:00] * archivist hides them with all the other bits zeeshan wants
[18:10:09] <zeeshan> you have a couple things i want :{
[18:10:24] <zeeshan> one day when i come to england, they will be mine
[18:10:32] <archivist> swap for the mikron?
[18:10:33] <Tom_itx> hide them in different spots else he find them all at once
[18:10:37] <zeeshan> haha
[18:11:01] <zeeshan> out of my v-block collection
[18:11:06] <zeeshan> the largest one is meant for 1.75"
[18:11:09] <zeeshan> tube..
[18:11:20] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/EjKMccG.jpg
[18:11:27] <archivist> those I get army surplus
[18:11:41] <zeeshan> i need v-blocks so i can mount this 2.375 pipe on them
[18:11:45] <zeeshan> so i can face the flanges in the near future
[18:11:59] <Tom_itx> man... who did those welds...
[18:12:16] <zeeshan> i know they are ugly :P
[18:12:22] <archivist> wernt me guv
[18:12:28] <zeeshan> this is what happens when i know they will be ceramic coated
[18:12:32] <zeeshan> and wrapped in header wrap
[18:12:39] <zeeshan> you stop caring :)
[18:12:43] <Tom_itx> better than what i would have done probably
[18:13:05] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/qqXS7Uj.jpg
[18:13:07] <zeeshan> they arent too bad :[
[18:13:24] <PetefromTn_> jeez man something stinks in here....Oh
[18:13:26] <Tom_itx> now go anneal the whole thing so they don't crack
[18:13:39] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: that is the next step after i am done welding one more fitting on them
[18:13:48] <zeeshan> im gonna anneal em and see if the flanges come back t o their original shape
[18:13:52] <zeeshan> i doubt they will, but its worth a try
[18:14:06] <zeeshan> they are wrapped by about 12 thou
[18:14:09] <zeeshan> *warpped
[18:14:11] <zeeshan> typical
[18:14:14] <archivist> naja452, proof would be adding encoder feedback
[18:14:20] <Tom_itx> if you don't, they will. if you do they won't anyway
[18:14:47] <zeeshan> what
[18:15:19] <archivist> naja452, my ears are tuned to the noise a steeper makes when it misses, I heard the different sound
[18:15:36] <zeeshan> archivist: he can just mount a microphone to his stepper
[18:15:44] <zeeshan> and then do an analysis after
[18:15:57] <archivist> naja452, one other error to watch for is the signal timing during a reverse
[18:16:02] <zeeshan> fft should show a frequency peak
[18:16:14] <archivist> noise peak too
[18:16:52] <archivist> a peak at the wrong frequency too
[18:17:13] <PetefromTn_> damn steppers ;)
[18:17:19] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: ikr
[18:17:24] <zeeshan> garbage!
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[18:17:36] <archivist> naja452, the drivers have a setup time for the direction signal before you should step
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[18:19:06] <archivist> do a longer reversal test backing into a DTI to see if it creeps and how much per cycle
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[18:19:48] <PetefromTn_> I wonder if I can swap out the steppers in my HP printer for SERVOS!!
[18:21:06] <archivist> one of the early printers I worked on had a DC servo controlled by a crude loop
[18:23:13] <Tom_itx> i bet my first laserjet weighed about the same as 10 current day ones
[18:23:14] <archivist> let a counter run and interrupt if leading opto off else on rinse repeat
[18:24:47] <PetefromTn_> it was probably ten times the machine too
[18:25:08] <lair82> CaptHindsight, I don't really know, but the problem hasn't come back, Thank God!!!!!!! :)
[18:25:21] <CaptHindsight> \0/
[18:26:50] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: rofl
[18:26:54] <zeeshan> hahahaha
[18:27:32] <PetefromTn_> I'm here all week
[18:28:41] <CaptHindsight> just stepper motors and no encoder strip like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Encoder-Strip-for-Encad-NovaJet-500-505-600-630-700-736-750-Printer-/300990530768?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46146f04d0
[18:29:32] <archivist> servo and encoder strip
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[18:30:24] <archivist> I wonder which printer used that first
[18:30:56] <archivist> canon PJ1080 or A1210 was the first I saw
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[18:43:50] <Roguish> hey. anyone ever make a grinder/buffer? i need to mount a large wire wheel (for polishing/deburring) on a motor shaft. what's the usual method?
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[18:44:09] <Roguish> 2 hp motor, 10" wire wheel
[18:44:10] <cradek> same as a bench grinder, I think
[18:44:36] <archivist> I have a brush on a bench grinder
[18:44:38] <cradek> a jeweler's buffer has a tapered arbor that you just set the buffing wheel on
[18:44:51] <cradek> when it spins up it locks in place
[18:45:05] <cradek> (you spend a lot of time swapping them around, so it's nice it's so fast)
[18:45:19] <archivist> wire brushes dont normally have the soft centre for the tapered screw
[18:45:21] <Roguish> this is to be pretty big, and very industrial. custom machine.
[18:45:37] <cradek> yeah that's bench grinder territory, big washer and nut
[18:45:49] <Roguish> threads on motor shaft??????
[18:46:02] <cradek> haven't you seen a grinder?
[18:47:00] <Roguish> all the ready made grinder/buffers are double ended. http://www.baldor.com/brands/baldor-reliance/products/motors/grinders--buffers--lathes/buffers
[18:47:36] <skunkworks> something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPINDLE-LEFT-1-2-ARBOR-STRAIGHT-SHAFT-FOR-MOTOR-GRINDER-WHEEL-1-2-HOLDER-L-/200774160365?hash=item2ebf128fed
[18:47:40] <archivist> I do a lot of restoration type cleaning with wire brush mounted on something (vertical drill stand as well)
[18:47:52] <Roguish> i have a long thin steel bar to clean up both sides at the same time.
[18:48:37] <Roguish> archivist: yes, i've seen those. just not sure it's robust enough. and don't like the set screws.
[18:48:56] <archivist> there was a video earlier that had a cnc with the wire brush as a deburr tool
[18:49:26] <archivist> no set screw involved
[18:50:04] <archivist> twisted wire brush for violence :)
[18:50:16] <Roguish> my parts are about 1/4" x 1" x 20 ft. i have a fixture to hold, guide and drive them. want to mount the motors shaft vertically with wheels in horiz plane.
[18:51:10] <Roguish> http://www.weilercorp.com/power-brushes
[18:51:25] <Roguish> Power Brush Wire Wheels
[18:51:32] <archivist> only problem is the best performance means more flying debris
[18:52:23] <archivist> I use cup, angle and flat
[18:53:15] <Roguish> I have the wire wheel brush selected. now need to mount it onto a good industrial motor shaft.
[18:54:13] <archivist> make sure it is adjustable for wheel wear
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[20:33:26] <PetefromTn_> I think I am finally reaching the end of the tunnel on cleaning up the years of gunk off this CNC lathe finally heh
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[20:33:52] <XXCoder> lol
[20:34:53] <PetefromTn_> thank the good Lord for Greased Lighning that stuff is incredible..
[20:35:19] <PetefromTn_> I have also been tidying up things and prepping the removable parts for the paint job.
[20:35:44] <XXCoder> wonder how they capture lightining and then grease em
[20:47:00] <PetefromTn_> dunno but I do know this stuff cuts thru some heavy nasty chip filled grease pretty easily... there is just so many areas that are in the enclosure and on the base of the machine that have not been cleaned for a very long time.
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[21:00:13] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:12:14] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj2-Jhpt2hY 'My planer is considerably bigger than you'
[21:13:10] <andypugh> I want to find a planer locally to re-machine my Rivett lathe dovetail
[21:13:40] <zeeshan> hes been working on that for 3 years
[21:13:45] <zeeshan> been following him
[21:13:52] <andypugh> Planers are cool
[21:13:53] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:14:10] <SpeedEvil> His videos are so slow. But quite watchable
[21:14:18] <andypugh> I would expect the belt to be running crossed
[21:14:54] <andypugh> Ah, wait, that isn’t the sort of planer I was expecting
[21:15:03] <PetefromTn_> jeez that looks like a machine that should be called the Widowmaker...
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[21:16:00] <SpeedEvil> It does not look OHSA compliant
[21:17:57] <andypugh> I was expecting this sort of planer (and this is what I want to find some time on locally) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4kPDhrhlgk
[21:18:25] <PetefromTn_> like a monster shaper
[21:18:51] <andypugh> Yes, the distinction between a planer and a shaper is if the tool or the work moves.
[21:19:08] <PetefromTn_> sure
[21:19:18] <PetefromTn_> I noticed it also does not have a clapper
[21:20:11] <fenn> i was expecting something like this 40 foot planer (bad picture sorry) http://fenn.freeshell.org/retrofest/dcp_0385.jpg
[21:21:20] <andypugh> Stuart Stevenson has a sectional plano-miller. I don’t know how long that is with all the bits bolted together, but "vast" is a close estimate
[21:22:45] <malcom2073> That giant planer would be perfect for leveling 4x8 router surfaces
[21:23:24] <fenn> http://youtu.be/w4kPDhrhlgk i guess it's actually like a shaper so i don't really know why they call it a planer
[21:25:48] <PetefromTn_> whats amazing to me is how SMOOTH that HUGE massive freaking table glides back and forth... a wear point for sure I wonder what it rides on and how it is lubricated..
[21:26:27] <PetefromTn_> Oh and it actually does have a clapper...the whole mount moves
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[21:27:25] <PetefromTn_> Hey it's a Cincinatti!!!! WIN!!
[21:27:34] <fenn> the bit would self-destruct in no time if it didn't have a clapper
[21:27:54] <PetefromTn_> probably
[21:29:50] <PetefromTn_> its for sale for $38,500 so it can be yours!! Just need a way to move it and someplace to put it. Lemme go measure my garage....
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[21:30:52] <malcom2073> You don't put that in a garage, you put a garage around that.
[21:31:01] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[21:31:04] <PetefromTn_> ya think?
[21:31:19] <PetefromTn_> that monster is bigger than my whole house...
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[21:36:26] <PetefromTn_> I probably don't even have enough land here to buil a garage that big without tearing down the house and shop
[21:36:48] <fenn> just dig a tunnel with your tunnel boring machine
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[21:45:45] <roycroft> go underground, petefromtn_
[21:45:54] <roycroft> build a giant garage underneath your house
[21:46:18] <PetefromTn_> I can't even afford to get this CNC lathe going let alone excavate under my house ROFL
[21:46:19] <Computer_barf> how long do you guys suppose is reasonable to run my g0704 at a time? I worry about over heating it.
[21:46:37] <PetefromTn_> ten or fifteen minutes? ;)
[21:46:48] <zeeshan> Computer_barf: never
[21:46:50] <furrywolf> until the red light on the stack light comes on
[21:46:51] <zeeshan> 0 min
[21:46:53] <roycroft> computer_barf: the thermal protection switch will kick the thing off if your motor gets too hot
[21:46:56] <zeeshan> furrywolf: ROFL ROFL ROFL
[21:47:15] <zeeshan> well applied joke
[21:48:18] <furrywolf> :P
[21:48:50] <PetefromTn_> Found my missing ball end allen wrench in the chips in the CNC lathe enclosure today!! Been looking for that thing for months now
[21:49:06] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: rofl
[21:49:09] <zeeshan> very nice
[21:49:18] <zeeshan> dude i blew up my edge finder (Starrett)
[21:49:23] <zeeshan> and lost the spring.
[21:49:32] <furrywolf> did you find the missing tommy bar for my lathe chuck while you were in there?
[21:49:35] <zeeshan> now im stuck with the import cause i never could find that spring
[21:49:40] <PetefromTn_> I must have been using to unscrew some of the bolts on the machine and it fell down without me noticing it.
[21:49:41] <zeeshan> maybe use your luck to find mine?
[21:50:10] <zeeshan> whats a tommy bar
[21:50:22] <PetefromTn_> spun it too fast?
[21:51:00] <PetefromTn_> a guy did that at the last shop I worked in accidentally hit the wrong MDI line and it ramped up to 10k real fast....
[21:51:07] * furrywolf googles for a page about tommy bars
[21:51:09] <PetefromTn_> was interesting seeing the spring turn into a streamer
[21:51:39] <furrywolf> http://www.sherline.com/tip23.htm
[21:52:29] <zeeshan> never seen that b4
[21:52:42] <fenn> it's for really small chucks
[21:53:00] <fenn> like a drill chuck key but without any gearing
[21:53:19] <fenn> you just yank on it to tighten
[21:53:27] <PetefromTn_> do you need a magnifying glass to see it? ;)
[21:53:40] <zeeshan> cye
[21:53:41] <zeeshan> cute
[21:53:45] <andypugh> My new(ish) lathe has 3 chucks. And no chuck keys. There are two different square sizes and one hex. How annoying.
[21:53:50] <furrywolf> I've been using an allen key as my second tommy bar for a while now...
[21:54:06] <PetefromTn_> andypugh that is a simple fix
[21:55:04] <PetefromTn_> someone was selling the same exact 12x36 lathe I had here locally for $1500.00 asking price recently. If I had it I would have grabbed it. Honestly I would like to get a manul 14x40 or larger once the CNC lathe is operational.
[21:55:21] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIMAT-SL-DB-3-4-LATHES-AND-OTHERS-MACHINES-TOMMY-BARS-SCROLL-CHUCK-LEVERS-/161775447021 those look nice.
[21:56:11] <fenn> so maybe this is obvious but if you have a lathe you can just make one
[21:56:28] <PetefromTn_> yup its obvious
[21:57:06] <furrywolf> or just buy a short piece of steel rod, which is all the stock ones are. :P
[21:57:45] <PetefromTn_> yeah but surely you would STILL dress it up and polish it in the lathe man I mean COME ON!!
[21:57:56] <furrywolf> I don't know if I can successfully turn tool steel on the sherline. I found I couldn't part off 3/8" diameter mild steel!
[21:58:22] <PetefromTn_> got hackasaw?
[21:58:26] <Tom_itx> chatter too much?
[21:59:19] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: I couldn't make the cutoff tool holder stay in one place, even when I cranked the screw down tight enough I was worried about snapping it or mushing my t-slots.
[21:59:36] <furrywolf> the force of cutting steel causes it to rotate on the bed
[21:59:39] <furrywolf> it works in brass...
[21:59:51] <Tom_itx> funny, brass tends to grab
[22:00:00] <zeeshan> what kind of lathe cant part 3/8 mild steel
[22:00:02] <PetefromTn_> you can mush a tee slot?
[22:00:03] <zeeshan> i can break that by my fingers
[22:00:07] <zeeshan> :D
[22:00:17] <Tom_itx> zeeshan a cheap one
[22:00:35] <PetefromTn_> a wittle one
[22:00:44] <Tom_itx> or jeweler's lathe
[22:00:49] <zeeshan> make a grinder attachment
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[22:01:18] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: the table is aluminum
[22:01:30] <Sync_> zeeshan: just saw your header, dat efficiency
[22:01:31] <furrywolf> if you clamp a steel t-nut and steel bolt on it tight enough...
[22:01:38] <PetefromTn_> make a little pencil die grinder toolpost grinder and insert a dremel cutoff blade
[22:02:11] <furrywolf> I think I need to try hand sanding the bottom of the cutoff tool holder to be a ever so slightly dished shape.
[22:03:18] <zeeshan> Sync_: its not meant to be efficient, its meant to fit
[22:03:27] <zeeshan> have you worked on a v8 in a rx7 engine bay?
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[22:03:44] <Sync_> no but I know it is tight
[22:03:46] <Tom_itx> doubt i ever will
[22:04:07] <furrywolf> zeeshan: someone I know is thinking of a twin turbo STI swap into his '84 subaru. :P
[22:04:12] <furrywolf> that'll be cramped
[22:04:33] <PetefromTn_> won't the car come apart ?
[22:04:34] <zeeshan> furrywolf: at least the motor is narrow but wide
[22:05:05] <furrywolf> zeeshan: and guess what? the frame rails on the early '80s subarus are spaced for a pushrod engine, not an overhead cam engine.
[22:05:13] <andypugh> furrywolf: Did you see Project Binky?
[22:05:17] <furrywolf> when you put an overhead cam engine in, room for routing stuff around it goes away.
[22:05:21] <furrywolf> andypugh: no
[22:05:44] <zeeshan> andypugh: http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/Untitled-4.jpg
[22:05:51] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/user/badobsessionmsport
[22:05:53] <zeeshan> $5 if you can tell me what that is the solution to
[22:06:17] <furrywolf> zeeshan: on a non-turbo swap, you don't need to route anything between the top and the bottom of the engine (intake goes in the top, exhaust comes out the bottom)... getting twin turbos in will be fun.
[22:06:23] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: wanting to understand math
[22:06:36] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: i love math
[22:06:42] <zeeshan> in one line you can go "kaboom"
[22:06:46] <andypugh> (Celica turbo 4x4 into a mini. But very nice work, and more importantly, very good video production. Like, it could go straight on TV I reckon.)
[22:06:46] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: I do too, when I'm awake
[22:06:47] <zeeshan> and a whole nasty term dissapears
[22:07:20] <furrywolf> oh, don't usually see hyperbolic trig functions used...
[22:07:32] <zeeshan> they are used a lot in beams
[22:07:49] <furrywolf> I don't usally do math on beams. :)
[22:08:09] <SpeedEvil> I let my beams do the math.
[22:08:13] <zeeshan> i came across this pic -- im still looking for a pic to rebuttal against sync
[22:08:13] <zeeshan> :)
[22:08:21] <andypugh> I let computers do it for me now. I regret that sometimes
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[22:08:38] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: yeah - in principle being able to hand analyse stuff is nice - but...
[22:08:40] <zeeshan> andypugh: why? most problems are not solvable analyutically
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[22:09:25] <andypugh> Most of the things I deal with nowadays are only solvable empirically.
[22:09:49] <zeeshan> Sync_: http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/simple_log_zps75f9927b.png
[22:09:56] <zeeshan> i did this a longggggg time ago
[22:10:03] <furrywolf> Tom_itx; get your pendant working?
[22:10:13] <andypugh> But Matlab can sometimes do good things to algebreic manipulations
[22:10:20] <zeeshan> and after i put the first set of manifolds, i ran 10.2@ 142 mph
[22:10:31] <zeeshan> so F effiency!
[22:10:42] <Sync_> wow such cfd
[22:10:42] <zeeshan> andypugh: symbolic toolbox ftw
[22:10:43] <furrywolf> I never got to take the Pantera down a track...
[22:11:27] <zeeshan> andypugh: do you actively use matlab?
[22:11:35] <furrywolf> 550hp, 14" wide tires, engine behind your head, all fiberglass. :)
[22:11:49] <Sync_> I don't do drag races, I don't know if that's fast or not
[22:11:55] <andypugh> I used to, but now mainly use excel as that works away from the network license, like in a car.
[22:12:13] <zeeshan> such savagery
[22:12:18] <zeeshan> how can you leave matlab :(
[22:12:54] <zeeshan> Sync_: i heard have a dsm?
[22:12:55] <zeeshan> :)
[22:12:58] <zeeshan> *you
[22:13:33] <fenn> octave doesn't need a license
[22:13:46] <andypugh> I can’t afford to buy it, and the company network license won’t work in a car where I do most of my work
[22:14:18] <furrywolf> there's an open-source math package that's supposed to be mostly matlab compatible, but I've never used it.
[22:14:33] <fenn> https://www.gnu.org/software/octave/
[22:14:46] <Sync_> I do zeeshan
[22:14:52] <zeeshan> which one?
[22:14:52] <furrywolf> my projects these days mostly involve manual labor rather than thinking.
[22:15:01] <Sync_> mitsu colt
[22:15:35] <andypugh> I have used Octave, in fact I used to be on their mailing list.
[22:15:35] <zeeshan> i used to have a 3g eclipse
[22:15:36] <zeeshan> lol
[22:15:46] <zeeshan> i had a 4g63 evo 8 head mated with a 4g64
[22:16:03] <zeeshan> damn mitusbishi and their transmissions :(
[22:16:12] <Sync_> they are solid
[22:16:15] <Sync_> compared to subaru glass
[22:16:18] <andypugh> You can write an STL slicer in 3 lines of Matlab/Octave. It’s great
[22:16:19] <zeeshan> LOL
[22:16:19] <zeeshan> LOL
[22:16:22] <zeeshan> hahahahahaha
[22:16:28] <zeeshan> i think you're mistakened
[22:16:43] <andypugh> (The code to import and export is longer, but not by much)
[22:16:49] <Sync_> my STi ate 2nd and 3rd two times at 450hp
[22:17:03] <furrywolf> Sync_: eh? I've yet to ruin a subaru tranny.
[22:17:24] <Sync_> run it hard, and it will fail
[22:17:24] <furrywolf> oh. you're calling them "glass" because you're putting in substantially more power than they were ever designed for.
[22:17:32] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/output_shaft.jpg ; http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/output_shaft_bearing.jpg
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[22:17:59] <Sync_> the teeth are substantially harder than mitus
[22:18:03] <furrywolf> I'm putting in 65% more power than stock into mine and it hasn't had any problems yet. :)
[22:18:07] <Sync_> did some analysis on them
[22:18:12] <furrywolf> so don't pop the clutch?
[22:18:13] <PetefromTn_> hehehe
[22:18:17] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/axles_owned4.jpg
[22:18:23] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/axles_owned3.jpg
[22:18:31] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/axles_owned2.jpg
[22:18:35] <malcom2073> Granny shifting instead of double clutching like you should
[22:18:38] <zeeshan> only took 400bhp to do that
[22:18:39] <zeeshan> lol
[22:18:42] <PetefromTn_> ROFL
[22:18:51] <malcom2073> :P
[22:18:57] <Sync_> interesting
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[22:19:23] <Sync_> there are quite a few evos here running around 400 hp with stock running gear
[22:19:34] <andypugh> My computer is dying, I wonder what the probelm is?
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[22:19:44] <Sync_> although I have gotten straight gears EDM'd for some guy
[22:19:45] <malcom2073> andypugh: Is it 20 years old? :P
[22:19:47] <zeeshan> andypugh: lack of matlab
[22:19:51] <zeeshan> :-)
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[22:20:05] <andypugh> It just freezes every minute or so for a few seconds
[22:20:19] <malcom2073> Out of hard drive space and/or ram?
[22:20:24] <andypugh> (It’s a Mac from 2011)
[22:20:28] <malcom2073> Oh Mac
[22:20:30] <malcom2073> who knows
[22:20:44] <andypugh> I think it might actually be a hard drive that is expiring.
[22:20:48] <furrywolf> I've only broken one CV joint, and it was because I drove it for ten years after it started clicking. and then I made a u-turn at full lock on a steep hill with lots of throttle.
[22:21:02] <zeeshan> furrywolf: at least it gave you warning
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[22:21:05] <zeeshan> wasn't catastrophic
[22:21:11] <zeeshan> i prolly went through 6 axles on the car
[22:21:16] <zeeshan> i got so good at changing them on the side of the road
[22:21:18] <zeeshan> and track
[22:21:26] <Sync_> that really suprises me
[22:21:29] <zeeshan> first time i did it, it took like 2 hours
[22:21:36] <Sync_> the 1G and 2G I see here are solid
[22:21:38] <zeeshan> then it became like 25 min when i got good
[22:21:44] <SpeedEvil> Oh - medical student.
[22:21:47] <SpeedEvil> err
[22:21:52] <furrywolf> it's pretty easy on a subaru, but you need a wrench big enough to loosen and tighten the ~250ftlb spindle nut.
[22:22:07] <zeeshan> its about the same torque for the mitsu
[22:22:37] <Sync_> but apparently the straight cut gears are fine for over 1000hp
[22:23:02] <furrywolf> I've never broken a subaru tranny, but I tend to use them with stock engines.
[22:23:08] <zeeshan> i did these steps: remove wheel, remove axle nut, remove ball joint bolt from knuckle, pry bar the axle out and quickly put the new on in, assemble
[22:23:10] <zeeshan> top off fluid
[22:23:41] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: on a subaru, there's stub shafts that stay in the tranny/diff, so no fluid loss. :P
[22:23:49] <zeeshan> i like that design
[22:23:52] <zeeshan> very nice
[22:24:10] <zeeshan> i know the 240sx is like that
[22:24:17] <zeeshan> ive never changed an axle on the rx7 yet
[22:24:28] <zeeshan> i dont think it has stub shafts either though
[22:24:35] <furrywolf> I've abused a couple of subaru trannies... we had one driving 44" swampers.... :P
[22:24:49] <andypugh> zeeshan: STL slicer in Matlab: http://codepad.org/MfULPnex
[22:25:00] <andypugh> (Outputs eps and hpgl)
[22:25:07] <zeeshan> for 3d printer?
[22:25:08] <furrywolf> see, you weird people like big engines. around here, people like big tires. P
[22:25:09] <furrywolf> :P
[22:25:10] <Sync_> same with the f5m
[22:25:23] <Sync_> it has a sealed box
[22:25:26] <zeeshan> http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s257/bimbleuk/Mazda%20RX7%20V8%20-%20Build/Rear_Subframe_Assembly.jpg
[22:25:33] <zeeshan> okay its the same as the mitusu
[22:25:37] <zeeshan> but diff fluid is easy to replace
[22:26:02] <andypugh> zeeshan: Yes, for cutting out layers of sticker-paper. It was my first 3D printer 10 years ago. Oddly enough, the last too.
[22:26:11] <zeeshan> hehe
[22:26:13] <furrywolf> I've never replaced diff fluid on a subaru... I've checked a couple of them, and they've always been right at the full plug and clean-looking...
[22:26:37] <andypugh> It was a very tedious process
[22:27:04] <Tom_itx> something you excell at
[22:27:08] <furrywolf> I might change the fluid on my project subaru, just because it's the only original fluid left on the vehicle.
[22:27:14] <zeeshan> loll
[22:27:29] <furrywolf> I drove one to 300,000 miles without ever changing the transmission fluid, and the tranny still worked like new. :)
[22:27:37] <andypugh> zeeshan: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5478341215134773746 was the final result. Then I had them cast in brass
[22:28:08] <zeeshan> very cool
[22:28:42] <andypugh> You know those tedious jobs where your legs curl up, you start feeling sick, and want to hurt something? Assembly was one of those.
[22:29:02] <zeeshan> body work is like that for me
[22:29:07] <zeeshan> when youre block sanding the whole car
[22:29:20] <andypugh> I guess those symptoms would get me a diagnosis of ADHD nowadays :-)
[22:29:21] <furrywolf> the shift linkage on the new one I got is worn out... tranny is perfect, but the shifter flops about six inches side to side. looks like someone mushed the roll pin that holds part of the linkage together. I think I need to drill it out slightly oversize and use an oversized pin.
[22:29:22] <PetefromTn_> panniers on an R1? Sacriledge
[22:29:48] <zeeshan> furrywolf: the problem is you dont have NAWZ
[22:30:22] <furrywolf> zeeshan: because that fixes damaged shift linkages?
[22:30:25] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: They look hideous too. But the design means that the whole frame simply lifts off by unlocking the pillion seat, and there are no mods to the bike at all.
[22:30:37] <Nick001-shop> Anywhere I can get the internal profile for 1/8-28 BSPT - bore dimensions at both ends, angle of bore and depth? Want to bore it out then single point the thread.
[22:31:01] <PetefromTn_> well I guess it is okay then....but just this one time ;)
[22:31:07] <zeeshan> furrywolf: youd be having too much fun to care
[22:31:08] <zeeshan> :)
[22:31:35] <furrywolf> the subaru transmission with the 44" swampers once climbed a 3ft concrete wall... but it was cheating slightly, since it had an additional 3.73:1 reduction after the transmission.
[22:31:50] <SpeedEvil> Drive it out to the desert, and roll it at high speed
[22:31:51] <Tom_itx> Nick001-shop, http://www.newmantools.com/taps/bsp.htm
[22:32:43] <PetefromTn_> only 3'?
[22:32:51] <zeeshan> Nick001-shop: honestly, mitsubishi engine blocks where the oil pressure sensor goes on are 1/8-28 bspt
[22:32:58] <zeeshan> but you can fit a 1/8 npt in there no problem with no leaks
[22:32:58] <zeeshan> :D
[22:33:29] <Tom_itx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Pipe
[22:33:38] <Sync_> fuck that stuff zeeshan
[22:33:55] <furrywolf> subarus use 1/8 bspt and 1/4 bspt for their oil pressure senders as well.
[22:33:59] <zeeshan> Sync_: the bspt fitting?
[22:34:00] <zeeshan> lol
[22:34:11] <furrywolf> bspp on the block, bspt on the sender
[22:34:16] <furrywolf> if I remember right
[22:34:29] <zeeshan> i did buy real 1/8 bspt to -4 jic
[22:34:33] <zeeshan> and i didnt notice a difference
[22:34:55] <furrywolf> I need to make an oil pressure sender adapter for my subaru...
[22:34:59] <Sync_> thinking about shoving a newer engine in the colt, the 4g63t is pretty heavy
[22:35:12] <furrywolf> need to use the sender that matches the body, but it doesn't screw into the engine. :)
[22:36:09] <furrywolf> one of the things I want to make, when I get my spindle encoders built, is a simple g-code generator to generate all the standard fittings. npt, bspp, bspt, an/jic, etc, etc, etc... then just spit out adapters on demand. :)
[22:36:14] <andypugh> BSP is the metric stanrads for pipes :-)
[22:36:26] <zeeshan> Nick001-shop: http://i.imgur.com/vY3sSIy.png
[22:36:29] <zeeshan> from the bible
[22:36:44] <furrywolf> andypugh: bsp does not derive from any metric units as far as I know...
[22:36:45] <Nick001-shop> <Ton_itx> thanks for the info - it' the standard stuff for tapping- need to single point the thread for a shorter depth and have it seal before it bottoms out.
[22:37:13] <zeeshan> andypugh: send me some bspt taps and dies??
[22:37:23] <furrywolf> andypugh: and you can get actual metric threads. for example, subaru power sterring is M14x1.5 if I remember right...
[22:37:33] <andypugh> furrywolf: No, it is the old british imperial standard, with a Whiteworth thread form, but it is still the ISO / Metric standard pipe thread.
[22:37:59] <furrywolf> or maybe it's x1.25 and the m16 is x1.5. been a while. :P
[22:38:50] <andypugh> zeeshan: Lots on www.ebay.co.uk
[22:39:02] <zeeshan> FREE!!
[22:39:16] <zeeshan> i'll send you a beaver in return
[22:39:54] * furrywolf sends the hudson bay company around to zee's shack
[22:39:56] <andypugh> The only ones I have and don’t need are a set of 1 1/4 which would cost as much to post as a beaver.
[22:40:13] <SpeedEvil> Live or dead?
[22:40:18] <zeeshan> live ofcourse
[22:40:23] <zeeshan> so he can cause some misery
[22:41:22] <andypugh> http://www.xkcd.com/325/
[22:41:24] <furrywolf> I really want to have a program with a library of every single fitting standard that spits out g-code for making adapters...
[22:41:36] <zeeshan> hahah
[22:41:44] <andypugh> furrywolf: I made a start at that. Now where did I put it?
[22:42:18] <zeeshan> furrywolf: how much is a typical exhaust gasket?
[22:42:56] <furrywolf> npt, bsp, metric, SAE (flare and inverted flare), jic/an, gas flare, ford fuel line, hose barb, bolt (sae and metric), metric brake flares, bubble flares,...
[22:43:21] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: engine-manifold, manifold-collector, pipe-pipe? about $20, $3, $2 respectively.
[22:43:29] <zeeshan> another reason why i left the rotary:
[22:43:29] <zeeshan> http://www.pineappleracing.com/oemfdrx-7enginetomanifoldexhaustgasket.aspx
[22:43:35] <zeeshan> they are 70-110$ each
[22:43:36] <andypugh> I had a GladeVCP panel that let you select good variety of threads
[22:43:38] <zeeshan> you need two. for the manifold
[22:43:44] <andypugh> (I had forgotten all about it)
[22:44:38] <furrywolf> that seems like a ripoff. I don't think I spent more than $30 for a custom gasket for my rare jeep engine...
[22:44:43] <furrywolf> and it's a loooong 6-cylinder.
[22:44:56] <zeeshan> yep retarded =/
[22:45:47] <Sync_> well, it is a multilayer metal gasket
[22:45:57] <Sync_> they probably had good reason to put it there
[22:46:04] <Sync_> (maybe not)
[22:46:51] <furrywolf> Sync_: you can buy a smartphone for that price. it includes layered silicon and metals, glass and liquid crystal and transparent conductors, etc, etc. a layered metal gasket is not complex compared to other things the same amount of money can buy.
[22:47:00] <furrywolf> someone is ripping people off and laughing all the way to the bank.
[22:47:32] <Sync_> it all depends
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[22:47:56] <Sync_> a smartphone is a mass produced item
[22:47:57] <fenn> andypugh: what sort of sensor is that in your unsorted cnc gallery, with the cog wheel and zig zag pcb trace?
[22:48:17] <furrywolf> so are rotary engine parts. because every needs every part, every 30k miles or less. :P
[22:48:23] <andypugh> fenn: Link?
[22:48:38] <fenn> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5694213724187863682
[22:49:27] <Sync_> very much less so than the smartphone
[22:53:55] <andypugh> fenn: AEDR-8300: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/photodetector-amplifiers/7160604/
[22:54:45] <furrywolf> I just think prices like that are "because we can" prices rather than in any way based on their manufacturing or distribution cost...
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[22:56:42] <andypugh> But, they don’t work with that target, they need a fairly specific line spacing, so I had to have these laser-cut: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5746547530954320162
[22:57:24] <fenn> andypugh: i meant, what is the purpose of the continuous copper zigzag trace
[22:57:51] <andypugh> It isn’t copper or a trace
[22:58:09] <andypugh> It’s the result of drawing a line on aluminium with a marker pen then etching it.
[22:58:50] <andypugh> I was hoping to use it with a reflective encoder sensor, but I was disappointed.
[23:00:15] <fenn> ok that makes some sense then. i thought maybe it was some kind of induction tachometer or something
[23:00:45] <andypugh> Nothing so novel :-)
[23:00:54] <Rab> andypugh, what was your method of etching aluminum?
[23:01:08] <andypugh> Ferric Chloride (that’s all I had)
[23:01:28] <andypugh> Worked on one bit of aluminium, not on another
[23:02:06] <furrywolf> I tried ferric chloride on aluminum once. it got over-energetic, and ended up being carried outside with a very long pair of pliers and dumped into a bucket and spread out....
[23:02:23] <furrywolf> where over-energetic is defined as getting hot, foaming, and emitting fumes
[23:02:46] <andypugh> None of that here
[23:02:51] <Rab> Yeah, I use ferric chloride for etching most other metals but I always heard it was contraindicated for Al.
[23:03:04] <andypugh> And I can’t stand this any more. I am going to have to at least try restarting this computer
[23:03:28] <Rab> Did some electrolytic etching that produced good results.
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[23:15:28] <zeeshan> no wonder my work lamp on the cnc wasn't working
[23:15:31] <zeeshan> it needs 220vac
[23:15:33] <zeeshan> im giving it 120.
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[23:26:34] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, things a little dim?
[23:26:53] <zeeshan> no it doesnt even light up
[23:26:54] <zeeshan> just flashes
[23:27:03] <zeeshan> im trying to figure out how this constant current power supply works
[23:27:09] <zeeshan> i clearly dont understand basic principles in electronics
[23:27:12] <Rab> Fluorescent ballast probably can't fire.
[23:28:26] <Rab> zeeshan, simulate it: http://lushprojects.com/circuitjs/
[23:28:31] <Tom_itx> http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/9777/how-do-constant-current-power-supplies-work
[23:28:40] <Tom_itx> you should like that, it's got math on the page
[23:29:30] <Tom_itx> google LM317, it can be configured for voltage or current
[23:31:43] <Tom_itx> http://users.telenet.be/davshomepage/current-source.htm
[23:31:57] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: this is a lot of reading
[23:31:59] <zeeshan> =P
[23:32:11] <zeeshan> rab tha tis a cool website
[23:32:38] <zeeshan> bookmarked
[23:32:48] <Tom_itx> alot of the chip houses have sim
[23:32:54] <Tom_itx> linear i think does
[23:32:58] <zeeshan> i'm sure you guys are a familiar with 5630 led strips
[23:33:06] <zeeshan> on the strip itself it says 12V.
[23:33:17] <zeeshan> it also says in the spec sheet 72W/5m
[23:33:25] <zeeshan> and you can cut em in 3 led segments
[23:33:36] <zeeshan> i have a meanwell apc-12-350
[23:33:46] <zeeshan> which is a 36V 0.35A constant current supply
[23:34:09] <zeeshan> what is worrying me is even if it's drawing .35A max
[23:34:30] <zeeshan> wouldn't the voltage be 36V at that current output meaning i'm exceeding the 12V spec
[23:34:32] <zeeshan> burning the strip
[23:35:00] <fenn> yes, but the power supply can't supply that much current so it will probably burn out first
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[23:35:08] <Tom_itx> so add a current limit resistor until you're sure it won't
[23:35:24] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i was hoping to just use the correct number of led's
[23:35:26] <zeeshan> to achieve what i want
[23:35:31] <zeeshan> like i think each led draws 50mA max.
[23:35:41] <zeeshan> im assuming they need a forward bias of 3V
[23:36:04] <Tom_itx> i can drive an led from 110v
[23:36:14] * zeeshan is confused
[23:36:15] <Tom_itx> i use a diode along with it
[23:36:16] <fenn> you don't need a constant current supply to drive 12V led strips because they have resistors built in
[23:36:31] <zeeshan> fenn: but it's all i have right now
[23:36:35] <zeeshan> and i'd like to wire this strip up
[23:36:48] <Tom_itx> as a bomb or a lamp?
[23:36:58] <zeeshan> lamp
[23:36:59] <Rab> zeeshan, constant current supply means that when the current threshold is reached, the voltage will drop. Since the LEDs are basically a short at their Vf, the voltage hovers there. If the power supply is decent, nothing will fry.
[23:37:26] <zeeshan> Rab: so till the current is reached
[23:37:28] <zeeshan> itll pump out 36V?
[23:37:30] <fenn> zeeshan it could work if you had 3 led strips or a resistor equivalent to 2 led strips, but the light will be dim
[23:37:33] <zeeshan> won't that fry the led's?
[23:37:45] <zeeshan> leds
[23:37:51] <Tom_itx> not if the current isn't exceeded
[23:37:53] <Rab> zeeshan, depends on how fast the power supply reacts.
[23:38:05] <fenn> oh crap i am dumb, nevermind, that's a constant current supply
[23:39:08] <Rab> zeeshan, are these LEDs in series or parallel?
[23:39:18] <zeeshan> parallel it looks lik
[23:39:31] <Tom_itx> more than likely they're in series
[23:39:35] <zeeshan> posting ap ic
[23:39:43] <Rab> zeeshan, why don't you use a 12V PSU?
[23:39:55] <zeeshan> parallel makes sense the way they are arranged
[23:40:02] <zeeshan> rab i have very limited space in the lamp fixture
[23:40:08] <zeeshan> i'd like to dump this dinky little power supply inthere
[23:40:11] <zeeshan> put the strips and call it a day
[23:40:36] <zeeshan> itll fit nicely in the fixture
[23:40:40] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/scope/led_harness_off.jpg
[23:40:49] <Tom_itx> those each have a transistor on board
[23:40:57] <fenn> your LED strip wants 72W/12V = 6A but the supply can only go up to 350mA; the question is what the supply does when it reaches its max current. most of them will just turn off
[23:40:57] <Tom_itx> you can dim the strips
[23:41:09] <zeeshan> fenn: i dont need to power the whole strip
[23:41:12] <zeeshan> i just wanna use what ineed to
[23:41:17] <Rab> Plenty of PSUs smaller than that brick.
[23:41:19] <zeeshan> i can fit 3x9" long strips
[23:41:21] <zeeshan> maybe 4.
[23:41:22] <Rab> 12V output
[23:41:29] <fenn> but since this is a current source it should keep supplying 350mA
[23:41:33] <zeeshan> rab i have what i have though right now
[23:41:33] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2lQqQfX.jpg?1
[23:41:39] <zeeshan> here is what im looking at
[23:41:54] <zeeshan> the way im thinking is this.
[23:42:10] <zeeshan> since each strip requires 12V, and the current supply is max 350mA
[23:42:17] <zeeshan> and each led draws 50mA,,
[23:42:56] <zeeshan> wouldnt that mean i can put 3 led segments in series
[23:42:57] <zeeshan> and itll work
[23:43:12] <Rab> That would be the best configuration.
[23:43:16] <fenn> yes
[23:43:42] <Rab> BTW, each of those segments is three LEDs in series with a current-limiting resistor.
[23:43:51] <Tom_itx> those onboard resistors will limit the current
[23:44:02] <Tom_itx> but E=IR still applies
[23:44:12] <zeeshan> whos E
[23:44:12] <zeeshan> :-)
[23:44:18] <Tom_itx> voltage
[23:44:21] <Tom_itx> current
[23:44:21] <zeeshan> i kid
[23:44:24] <Tom_itx> resistance
[23:44:33] <zeeshan> i think ill understand it better if i had a schematic
[23:45:08] <Tom_itx> ---/\/\/\---|>---
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[23:45:13] <Tom_itx> how's that?
[23:45:34] <zeeshan> looks like a fishy
[23:45:40] <fenn> each segment has 3 diodes in series with a resistor like +12 ---- D -> D -> D -> R ---- GND
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[23:45:56] <sector_0> can someone mill these for me?
[23:46:00] <fenn> those segments are wired in parallel to make a 72W strip
[23:46:02] <sector_0> http://oi59.tinypic.com/25z11ev.jpg
[23:46:10] <sector_0> http://oi62.tinypic.com/70jmf5.jpg
[23:46:22] <sector_0> I can send the stl files if you like
[23:46:22] <zeeshan> 1000$ please
[23:46:43] * sector_0 chokes
[23:46:55] <zeeshan> im sure pete can make those for you
[23:46:59] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/7qHq80U.jpg?1
[23:47:05] <zeeshan> fenn: is this what you mean in ascii?
[23:47:06] <fenn> sector_0: that is totally drill press territory
[23:47:20] <zeeshan> the half moon hole is the tricky part
[23:47:23] <zeeshan> to do with a drill press for that
[23:47:38] <fenn> zeeshan: no you drew the diodes in parallel
[23:47:59] <CaptHindsight> sector_0: how many thousand do you need? and what material?
[23:48:06] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: rofl
[23:48:31] <zeeshan> sector_0: the $1000 wasn't a joke btw
[23:48:41] <zeeshan> you have no tolerance!
[23:48:53] <zeeshan> and material
[23:48:54] <sector_0> zeeshan, lol still choked a bit there :p
[23:49:01] <zeeshan> if thats aluminum
[23:49:13] <Tom_itx> ceramic
[23:49:14] <sector_0> CaptHindsight, 0.001 thousands :)
[23:49:28] <sector_0> and yes it's aluminum
[23:49:30] <CaptHindsight> +/- 5mm tolerance all dimensions?
[23:49:36] <zeeshan> can prolly make it for 80bux
[23:49:56] <fenn> you can make the half-moons by putting to plates face to face and drilling a hole parallel to the face
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[23:50:05] <fenn> two*
[23:50:06] <zeeshan> sector_0: there is a section on practictal machinist
[23:50:12] <zeeshan> where you can post your job and people will bid on it
[23:50:19] <zeeshan> thats the way you can get the absolute cheapest price
[23:50:30] <sector_0> zeeshan, where that?
[23:50:57] <zeeshan> sorry its not prac machinist
[23:51:01] <zeeshan> http://www.rfqwork.com/
[23:51:03] <zeeshan> this forum
[23:51:07] <CaptHindsight> if you leave the holes out it's much easier to make
[23:52:20] <zeeshan> sector_0: where are you located?
[23:52:58] <sector_0> CaptHindsight, the tolerance isn't too important, as long as the half-moons are dead parallel with the edges and the holes near the half moons are pretty close
[23:53:15] <Tom_itx> reprap parts?
[23:53:28] <sector_0> could allow for them being 1mm away from the half-moon but not going through it
[23:53:33] <sector_0> Tom_itx, kinda
[23:53:43] <zeeshan> damnit fenn
[23:53:46] <sector_0> zeeshan, Caribbean
[23:53:55] <zeeshan> virtually idont see how these are in series!!
[23:53:58] <zeeshan> *visually
[23:54:02] <sector_0> st.vincent to be specific
[23:54:09] <zeeshan> sector_0: shipping will be $$$
[23:54:13] <zeeshan> dont you have a local machine shop?
[23:54:29] <sector_0> zeeshan, that's the problem I have most the time
[23:54:32] <Tom_itx> no but he's got lotsa sunshine and beachfront
[23:54:37] <zeeshan> ,lucky guy
[23:54:41] <zeeshan> id take that over a machine shop anyday!
[23:54:57] <Tom_itx> you're no machinist!!!
[23:55:08] <zeeshan> i know!
[23:55:08] <sector_0> zeeshan, there's one but they do heavy machining for marines and stuff
[23:55:37] <zeeshan> sector_0: realistically that is a 1 hour job
[23:56:05] <zeeshan> avg shop rate is 75- 150/hr , and then you gotta pay for material and shipping
[23:56:15] <zeeshan> can you post it on that forum and tell us what you get quoted?
[23:56:16] <zeeshan> im curious!!
[23:56:27] <sector_0> zeeshan, lol oh gosh!
[23:56:33] <sector_0> that sounds horrible
[23:57:55] <zeeshan> fenn: http://www.muslighting.com/pic/other/2013-04-02-07-12-129.jpg
[23:57:56] <zeeshan> left diagram
[23:58:02] <zeeshan> is what what you were getting at
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[23:58:39] <Tom_itx> that's what you're wanting to do
[23:58:55] <zeeshan> but i think the strip is already arranged like that
[23:59:00] <zeeshan> so it just means i cut it to elngth
[23:59:01] <zeeshan> and plug it in
[23:59:05] <zeeshan> im gonna draw it out and calc.