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[01:32:33] <sector_0> does anyone here mill stuff for a reasonable fee?
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[01:37:12] <Tom_itx> i mill my stuff for free
[01:38:02] <Tom_itx> couple here might, depends where you are
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[01:41:31] <CaptHindsight> you mean like for money?
[01:49:37] <sector_0> CaptHindsight, yeah
[01:49:59] <sector_0> I live in the Caribbean
[01:50:57] <skunkworks> maybe for a place to stay....
[01:51:02] <skunkworks> :)
[01:51:33] <sector_0> skunkworks, hehe
[01:52:17] <sector_0> well I have an extra room, and there's a view of the sea
[01:52:43] <sector_0> ...from the porch that is lol
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[02:23:48] <Tecan> im a little envious even though the sea smells pretty rank sometimes
[02:31:05] <furrywolf> eh, I live near the sea. it's not that special. lol
[02:33:01] <sector_0> well i don't actually live near it, I live on a hill so i have a view of it, but it's still a good distance off
[02:33:55] <furrywolf> we have tsunami evacuation route signs. :P
[02:34:16] <sector_0> lol yeah I not that close
[02:35:03] <sector_0> but if a tsunami does hit I have a good vantage point though :p
[02:35:17] <furrywolf> well, I'm far enough inland that there's no signs here, but it is shown on the flood map.
[02:35:38] <furrywolf> I'm a bit up a hill.
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[02:41:50] <renesis> 02:31 < furrywolf> eh, I live near the sea. it's not that special. lol
[02:41:54] <renesis> ocean is awesome
[02:42:16] <renesis> i miss it when im up north but is nice being home so shrug
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[03:03:02] <zeeshan> a little confused on g28
[03:03:17] <zeeshan> when i do g28.1 it stores the current absolute position in 5161 ?
[03:03:23] <zeeshan> G28.1 - stores the current absolute position into parameters 5161-5166.
[03:03:26] <zeeshan> how do i know which one?
[03:03:46] <cradek> it saves xyzabcuvw in those nine variables
[03:03:49] <cradek> there's only one g28 position
[03:03:52] <zeeshan> yes, but which one?
[03:03:54] <furrywolf> so, reading the news about how new chrysler vehicles expose everything to a public ip with no authentication or security of any kind. one of the things people claim to have done is disable the brakes. how can you design a vehicle so incredibly poorly that braking is under software control?
[03:03:54] <zeeshan> hm
[03:04:03] <cradek> don't worry about the numbers
[03:04:07] <cradek> just use g28.1 and then later use g28
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[03:04:25] <zeeshan> 5161 - 5166 -- is it basically updating the absolute position in all workpiece coordinates?
[03:04:30] <zeeshan> like g54 to g59.3
[03:04:38] <cradek> furrywolf: ABS is all about computer control of brakes
[03:04:40] <zeeshan> (just trying to understand it)
[03:04:53] <cradek> furrywolf: why it's hooked to the entertainment system is a better question
[03:05:05] <zeeshan> cradek are you using g28 as your tool change position?
[03:05:18] <cradek> g30 can be used for tool change position
[03:05:28] <cradek> yes I do that on my lathe with the tool turret
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[03:05:35] <zeeshan> sweet :)
[03:05:41] <zeeshan> im about to try rigid tapping in a real chunk of metal
[03:05:44] <zeeshan> i hope it goes well
[03:06:01] <cradek> g28/g30 don't care about any offsets
[03:06:17] <zeeshan> yes, so its basically a safe thing to call
[03:06:20] <zeeshan> for tool changes
[03:06:25] <zeeshan> as long as the tool change position is somwhere safe
[03:06:38] <cradek> yeah it's good for that
[03:07:01] <cradek> put a long tool on the turret, you have to move it over more, so move it where you like it and do g30.1
[03:07:13] <furrywolf> cradek: every ABS system I've worked on still has a master cylinder that will supply pressure to the brakes even if the computers fail...
[03:07:28] <furrywolf> any design where a software issue, even an intentional one, can prevent the mechanical system from working, should never have been shipped.
[03:07:33] <cradek> furrywolf: sure but how about if the computers run an attacker's code
[03:08:04] <furrywolf> it should have mechanical or hardwired systems, and fail safe.
[03:08:05] <cradek> the whole point of abs is the computer can override your foot's pressure and let the wheels keep turning
[03:08:34] <cradek> it's not being a computer that's the problem
[03:09:00] <furrywolf> on every system I've worked on, the computer is self-contained, and generally built so it can't do stupid things.
[03:09:01] <cradek> it's hooking that computer to the cellphone and wifi and mp3 player and video games and whatever all else bs they put in cars now
[03:09:26] <furrywolf> the only thing I have with ABS is my van, and I've been tempted to yank the fuse from it several times... plain out bad idea.
[03:10:01] <cradek> my 13 yr old car has the radio and the abs and the airbag controller on the same bus (I know because I can read them all over the obd2)
[03:10:12] <renesis> ha wtf
[03:10:18] <cradek> and that's perfectly fine if you don't have cell phone or wifi bs going on
[03:10:21] <furrywolf> I had a BMW like that. I sold it. piece of shit.
[03:10:38] <renesis> ive gotten used to the abs kicking it
[03:10:43] <cradek> I bet every car in the last 10-15 years is set up like that
[03:10:46] <renesis> first few times i thought my brakes blew up
[03:10:51] <furrywolf> I've found ABS to greatly decrease control of the vehicle and increase stopping distance... it's a bad idea in general.
[03:11:12] <cradek> I wish it could be disabled when it's working against you (snow)
[03:11:15] <furrywolf> heh, on a ford truck I had, the abs unit got replaced by a pair of brass couplers. :)
[03:11:18] <renesis> happens to early, other cars i was used to braking until the edge of the tires letting go
[03:11:21] <renesis> and then backing off
[03:11:39] <renesis> stupid drivers stomping out the pedal when they get scared ruining it for everyone
[03:11:42] <cradek> the traction control stuff can usually be disabled in those situations, but not abs
[03:12:06] <furrywolf> I don't own anything with traction control. lol
[03:12:15] <furrywolf> unless you count the detroit locker for the truck. :)
[03:12:18] <renesis> pretty sure mine doesnt have traction control
[03:12:33] <renesis> i can spin wheels while turning like whatever
[03:12:38] <cradek> my 03 has it, and it has kept me on the road once in the 10 years I've driven it
[03:13:14] <cradek> it's been in the way dozens of times (snow), but it has a disable button
[03:13:21] <zeeshan> question about rigid tapping
[03:13:36] <renesis> the ABS maybe helped on some canyon uh-ohs, but for all i know i could have gotten a lot more deccel mannually modulating the wheel slip
[03:13:37] <zeeshan> if i specify G33.1 Z-.425 K.04167, when does linuxcnc command the reversal
[03:13:39] <zeeshan> at .425?
[03:13:48] <cradek> yep
[03:13:52] <zeeshan> so there will be some overshoot
[03:13:56] <cradek> yep
[03:13:57] <furrywolf> my bmw had traction control, but it never actually seemed to do anything. the piece-of-utter-shit transmission controller made sure you never got enough torque to the wheels to spin them whether the traction control was on or off.
[03:14:19] <cradek> zeeshan:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G33_1-Rigid-Tapping
[03:14:22] <zeeshan> im really curious to see how much overshoot changes when youre actually tapping
[03:14:24] <cradek> when in doubt... :-)
[03:14:38] <renesis> furrywolf: you had an auto bmw?
[03:14:46] <cradek> depends on how much load you're under I guess
[03:14:51] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, i often use G28 Z0; G28 Y0 to move the spindle up and bring the table out to change parts
[03:14:56] <cradek> my vmc doesn't notice at all when it's tapping
[03:14:59] <furrywolf> "We're making a 7 series. It's meant to be driven by senile people who drive 15mph under the speed limit with their blinker on all day. They don't like any sudden movements. I know! We'll make the transmission always start in 2nd gear, and simply disable 1st gear, so it's nice and smooth!"
[03:15:03] <cradek> (I rarely tap over 1/4)
[03:15:16] <zeeshan> hehe
[03:15:18] <zeeshan> what vmc do you have
[03:15:25] <cradek> a mori mv jr
[03:15:30] <furrywolf> "Let's build a car with a 280hp engine that can't break the tires free!"
[03:15:32] <Tom_itx> lucky dog
[03:15:43] <zeeshan> beast
[03:15:45] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i see
[03:15:53] <renesis> furrywolf: its an auto transmission?
[03:15:55] <cradek> bad photo:
http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/jr.jpg
[03:16:08] <zeeshan> i guess you specify Z0 with the g28 because you want to ensure you're above the current work piece
[03:16:15] <zeeshan> before trying to go to the predefined position for even more safety
[03:16:21] <furrywolf> renesis: no, I'm talking about automatic transmission controllers, software control of gears, etc, for the manual transmission.
[03:16:23] <zeeshan> ooo
[03:16:25] <zeeshan> is that an ATC i see
[03:16:32] <jdh> cradek: is the framed in ceiling just for clearance?
[03:16:34] <cradek> of course
[03:16:37] <cradek> jdh: haha yes
[03:16:38] <Tom_itx> otherwise they'll move at the same time which could be bad
[03:16:44] <cradek> jdh: needed a few more inches...
[03:16:54] <renesis> furrywolf: so it was clutched?
[03:16:57] <zeeshan> this might be a retarded question
[03:17:05] <zeeshan> but why is one tool on the overarm
[03:17:15] <zeeshan> is that a probe or something
[03:17:24] <cradek> that's the probe. at the time, it had the wrong shank on it and couldn't go in the tool changer
[03:17:31] <zeeshan> ah
[03:17:38] <cradek> nowadays it's in the tool changer
[03:17:38] <furrywolf> renesis: no, you're just either blind or drunk, and if you can't pay enough attention to figure out that it's an automatic, I'm not going to talk to you.
[03:17:40] <zeeshan> nice machine
[03:17:59] <cradek> I cut down a weldon style tool holder for it
[03:18:00] <Tom_itx> too darn clean
[03:18:22] <cradek> this machine caused touchy to be written
[03:18:30] <cradek> also random toolchange
[03:18:41] <renesis> furrywolf: you ended the sentence with 'for a manual transmission' so was confusing, also its me so way more likely to be stoned than drunk
[03:18:44] <Tom_itx> looks like a nice rotary head on the floor too
[03:18:47] <Tom_itx> or indexer...
[03:18:54] * furrywolf gives up
[03:18:55] <cradek> yeah 12". it's cnc now too
[03:19:15] <furrywolf> renesis: you're now the official designated helper of Just_pink when they're here.
[03:19:36] <renesis> just pink is a they?
[03:19:56] <furrywolf> yes.
[03:20:01] <renesis> china factory irc client with designated photo model, noice
[03:20:04] <Tom_itx> he, she, he-she, it?
[03:20:11] <cradek> some people are theys
[03:20:13] <renesis> shrug
[03:20:14] * zeeshan is trying to figure out the atc on your machine
[03:20:20] <zeeshan> its 90 degrees to the spindle
[03:20:21] <cradek> nobody's an it, afaik
[03:20:27] <zeeshan> is there an arm or something that grabs it
[03:20:45] <cradek> zeeshan: the selected (bottom) pot turns downward, and the arm swings and swaps that tool with the spindle tool
[03:21:06] <Tom_itx> one of the Okumas we had used a swing arm
[03:21:07] <furrywolf> I think I'll stick to my driving of vehicles that do not have highly integrated computer systems nor cellular modems.
[03:21:38] <Tom_itx> 99tool belt with a swingarm and tool prefetch
[03:22:17] <renesis> i dont like drive by wire, feels shit, and syncing the filtered digital gas with the hydraulic clutch is a mess
[03:22:34] <cradek> zeehan: you can see a tool change here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWitrmtqZ7I
[03:23:05] <zeeshan> lol
[03:23:11] <zeeshan> im glad you posted that video, i was imagining it completely wrong.
[03:23:21] <zeeshan> didn't realize the tool came back in the same plane as the spindle
[03:23:29] <Tom_itx> yep
[03:23:35] <zeeshan> do you have a shot with the atc cover off?
[03:23:40] <zeeshan> to see how it indexs the tool like that
[03:23:50] <cradek> a big geneva wheel
[03:24:01] <cradek> run by a plain 3 phase ac motor
[03:25:05] <cradek> cool, it shows probing, I forgot about this video
[03:25:33] <zeeshan> the spindle is run by a 3 phase motor as well?
[03:25:41] <zeeshan> i notice the spindle indexs
[03:25:48] <cradek> yes
[03:25:54] <zeeshan> how do you manage that?
[03:25:55] <Tom_itx> it has to
[03:26:07] <cradek> the index is mechanical - there's a roller that rolls down a ramp and into a hole
[03:26:11] <zeeshan> ahh
[03:26:18] <cradek> a switch says when it's in the hole
[03:26:35] <zeeshan> okay i was thinking it was position controlled somehow through a motor controller
[03:26:46] <cradek> that never works as well as a pin
[03:26:56] <zeeshan> positive index is the best
[03:28:07] <cradek> the spindle vfd has a "jog" input that moves slowly with low torque
[03:28:22] <cradek> then when the pin pops in the hole it turns off and ladder continues
[03:28:31] * furrywolf needs a machine fancy enough to have things like that. :(
[03:28:47] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx4mKtlJeIs
[03:28:48] <zeeshan> ROFL
[03:28:52] <zeeshan> i think you'll enjoy this one
[03:28:55] <cradek> machines that came as cnc have a lot of nice features
[03:29:10] <zeeshan> cradek mine came cnc, but doesnt have that!! :{
[03:29:10] <cradek> people who retrofit manual machines have a much harder time
[03:29:16] <furrywolf> machines that cost more than the $100 I spent on mind tend to be better, too. heh.
[03:29:28] <cradek> ha, yeah
[03:29:57] <zeeshan> this video is making me giggle
[03:30:00] <zeeshan> i dont know why its so funny
[03:30:06] <zeeshan> if the airbag came out
[03:30:15] <zeeshan> or the fact that it's hopping around like a bunny
[03:32:19] <furrywolf> why are they stopped?
[03:32:21] <furrywolf> that should not have damaged the vehicle.
[03:32:35] <zeeshan> dude the airbag went off
[03:32:35] <furrywolf> at least not in any way to make it unable to safely exit the road.
[03:32:36] <cradek> airbag popped. probably disables the car?
[03:32:38] <zeeshan> it prolly so a lot of g's
[03:32:53] <cradek> I wonder what the horn is
[03:33:11] <furrywolf> cradek: I've only seen a few vehicles with the airbags set off, but none disabled the car. that would be VERY unsafe. it prevents you from getting out of traffic to prevent follow-on collisions.
[03:33:18] <renesis> it bottomed the bumper, everything prob bump stopped, its allowed to be damaged
[03:33:44] <zeeshan> lesson: don't speed over railway tracks
[03:33:46] <cradek> furrywolf: a lot disable the fuel pump in an accident, so it doesn't keep pumping all the fuel out.
[03:34:04] <zeeshan> cradek: modern cars probably
[03:34:09] <cradek> furrywolf: fords at least have a reset button
[03:34:11] <zeeshan> at the track we need kill switches for that exact reason
[03:34:12] <cradek> last 20 years
[03:34:13] <furrywolf> cradek: only one I've seen that disables the fuel pump is old ford trucks with an impact-activated switch. everything else seems to tie it to engine rpms.
[03:34:17] <zeeshan> cause the fuel pump keeps pumping fuel even during a crash
[03:34:26] <zeeshan> which not only kills the person in the car, but the track crew also
[03:34:30] <zeeshan> when it goes kaboom
[03:34:42] <furrywolf> subaru, for example, requires pulses from the ignition system to keep the fuel pump on.
[03:34:57] <zeeshan> really?
[03:35:00] <zeeshan> we have a watchdog?
[03:35:20] <furrywolf> on '80s subarus, yes. new ones control the fuel pump from the ecu, which requires cam sensor pulses. :P
[03:35:25] <zeeshan> brb from mill, really wanna try this tapping
[03:35:43] <zeeshan> well thats how it works on the fd rx7
[03:35:47] <zeeshan> and even my old mitsu
[03:36:04] <zeeshan> the engine rpm has to be above 400 to keep pumping fuel
[03:36:42] <furrywolf> carb subarus, at least in the '80s, have a little module under the dash (far left side, six-pin plug) that only turns the fuel pump on if there's pulses from the distributor. no dist pulses, fuel pump turns off.
[03:37:49] <furrywolf> '70s subarus ran the fuel pump off the alternator voltage regulator. alternator not spinning, no fuel pump.
[03:38:07] <furrywolf> '90s subarus run it off the ecu, based on rpm.
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[03:39:23] <furrywolf> older cars had mechanical fuel pumps, which were also dependent on engine rpm. :)
[03:39:35] <zeeshan-mill> engine rpm seems good enough
[03:39:40] <zeeshan-mill> > 200 rpm , enable pump
[03:40:04] <zeeshan-mill> not sure why they need ignition pulses
[03:40:21] <furrywolf> old ford trucks had a switch stuffed under the dashboard on the passenger side, with a reset button on top. I've NEVER seen one popped. Even ones that took out trees, telephone poles, etc.
[03:40:36] <cradek> huh
[03:40:47] <cradek> I thought the trunk...?
[03:41:12] <zeeshan-mill> what was going through subaru's engineers' minds
[03:41:16] <furrywolf> as I said, CARBED engines... how do you determine the rpm of a carbed engine without looking directly at the ignition system? :P
[03:41:27] <furrywolf> cradek: trucks don't have trunks. :)
[03:41:29] <zeeshan-mill> this bliz tap holder has 1/8" of play
[03:41:34] <zeeshan-mill> i hope thats enough to stop a tap from snapping
[03:41:48] <furrywolf> maybe they stuck it in the trunk on cars, but I haven't done much work on ford cars, generally considering them not worth fixing...
[03:42:35] <furrywolf> I've worked on a couple fox body mustangs and t-birds, but didn't have a reason to notice if they had a fuel switch.
[03:43:06] <furrywolf> ugly a very, very slow. :)
[03:43:15] <cradek> I had a mustang. it was crap. I was tickled when I traded it in.
[03:43:31] <furrywolf> let's choke a 5.0 V8 with so much smog crap it makes 120HP!
[03:44:01] <furrywolf> mustangs started really sucking in the late '70s.
[03:45:04] <zeeshan-mill> rustang
[03:45:45] <furrywolf> my 4-banger subaru has more horsepower than most mid-'70s to mid-'90s mustangs.
[03:46:11] <CaptHindsight> FORD, Fix Or Repair Daily :)
[03:46:32] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: if you put firestone tires on, then they Flip On Rapid Deflation. :P
[03:47:24] <furrywolf> actually, despite all the bitching about fords, the '80s and '90s trucks are actually rather reliable. they usually have about a million small things wrong, but keep driving.
[03:47:25] <CaptHindsight> my last Mustang was a 72 Mach 1, what a boat
[03:47:55] <cradek> my ex's 96 bronco is still going strong
[03:48:09] <cradek> I still borrow it once in a while :-)
[03:48:11] <furrywolf> every power steering gearbox goes out. every tiltwheel goes out. every zf5 shifter breaks. every plastic door handle breaks off (swap in an earlier metal one!), etc... but they keep driving.
[03:48:34] <furrywolf> cradek: if you want fun with full-size broncos, the roofs fall off if you drive on enough dirt roads. :P
[03:48:40] <furrywolf> oh, and every radiator core support cracks
[03:48:51] <furrywolf> every eec iv wiring harness has flaking insulation
[03:49:01] <cradek> water pump rusts into place
[03:49:13] <cradek> a sawzall fixes that, haha
[03:49:23] <cradek> takes boldness to put a water pump in it
[03:49:25] <furrywolf> every 7.3 glowplug controller that hasn't been rebuilt and had the glowplugs replaced rapid cycles and doesn't start on cold days.
[03:49:43] <furrywolf> every 7.3 and 6.9 fuel system sucks air
[03:50:31] <furrywolf> they have a lot of issues, but generally go quite a few miles before major things break.
[03:50:31] <cradek> I drove a ford V10 moving truck recently. it got 2 miles to the dollar.
[03:50:37] <furrywolf> lol
[03:50:42] <furrywolf> my truck is like that.
[03:51:08] <cradek> I put gas in my car once a month whether it needs it or not
[03:51:21] <furrywolf> except I have a 230 6-cylinder. it's so underpowered you drive with your foot flat to the floor all the time (it's like cruise control, which it doesn't have), causing it to get utter shit milage.
[03:51:33] <furrywolf> let's put a 120hp engine in a 6500lb truck! :)
[03:52:06] <furrywolf> I burn a lot of gas. living in a rural area does that.
[03:52:15] <furrywolf> my subaru gets gassed up every week or so.
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[03:52:25] <furrywolf> van (with its lovely 35gal tank) every two weeks.
[03:53:00] <furrywolf> truck.. every time I drive it. which isn't very often. it needs some work before it's roadworthy at the moment.
[03:53:31] <furrywolf> if you want good gas milage, get a ford 460. they can pass everything except a gas station. :)
[03:53:36] <furrywolf> a friend once measured 4mpg.
[03:53:57] <furrywolf> they came with the dual tanks stock, holding over 50 gallons... so you can go about 300 miles between fillups.
[03:54:51] <cradek> I'm secure enough in my masculinity to not need a car like that
[03:56:04] <furrywolf> they make good work trucks... you can put a literal ton of weight in the bed and they truck right up hills happily...
[03:57:38] <furrywolf> while my truck has a hard time going 55mph up a hill empty!
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[03:57:42] <zeeshan-mill> tap.. please dont break :{
[03:58:20] <furrywolf> tap balsa first.
[03:58:25] <furrywolf> or air. :P
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[03:59:03] <furrywolf> if I got another truck, it'd probably be an early-mid '90s f-350 with a 7.3 and zf5.
[03:59:04] <cradek> tap a nut with a bolt, heh
[03:59:08] <zeeshan-mill> rofl
[03:59:12] <zeeshan-mill> its only aluminum
[03:59:21] <furrywolf> aluminum WILL break taps.
[03:59:39] <furrywolf> you have to cut wood to save the tap if something screws up. heh.
[04:00:30] <furrywolf> of all the trucks I've worked on, the later 7.3s with manual transmissions seem to be the most reliable.
[04:00:36] <furrywolf> don't ever get a chevy or a dodge.
[04:00:54] <furrywolf> well, of all the full-size trucks. for toy trucks, get a toyota with a 22re. they'll run forever.
[04:01:34] <zeeshan-mill> hmm wtf am i doing wrong
[04:01:39] <zeeshan-mill> my red box is below my program
[04:01:42] <zeeshan-mill> Hmmmm!
[04:02:39] <furrywolf> other than regular replacements of head gaskets and main oil seals, the 22re is a quite reliable engine.
[04:02:56] <furrywolf> and sticky idle air valves.
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[04:03:53] <zeeshan-mill> son of a bitch
[04:04:03] <zeeshan-mill> i did something wrong when doing all my tool touch offs
[04:04:09] <zeeshan-mill> i was touching the table and hitting Z = 0
[04:04:17] * furrywolf sends zeeshan a 20-pack of taps
[04:04:25] <zeeshan-mill> with tool touch off to fixture
[04:05:07] <zeeshan-mill> cradek can you guide me :{
[04:05:18] <zeeshan-mill> you are actually here late :P
[04:05:26] <cradek> I'm sooooo tired
[04:05:43] <furrywolf> I am too. I got about an hour of sleep last night. back was hurting too much.
[04:05:46] <zeeshan-mill> aww
[04:05:51] <zeeshan-mill> but it will take 10 min!!
[04:06:09] <zeeshan-mill> i followed jt's guide on his website
[04:06:13] <zeeshan-mill> which i think he learned from you
[04:06:35] <cradek> surely I'm not the source of all tool measuring wisdom in the world
[04:06:43] <furrywolf> are you sure?
[04:06:43] <zeeshan-mill> everyone refers to you
[04:06:44] <zeeshan-mill> haha
[04:06:48] <cradek> grrrngh
[04:06:57] <cradek> did you g43 after you loaded the tool?
[04:07:00] <zeeshan-mill> yes
[04:07:06] <zeeshan-mill> i removed all g92 offsets
[04:07:20] <zeeshan-mill> selected tool touch off to fixture (machine was homed)
[04:07:21] <cradek> do the tool lengths make sense?
[04:07:21] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: as I told you before, send me a machine with a tool changer, then I'll let you know how to set one up. :P
[04:07:37] <zeeshan-mill> did t1 m6 g43, touched a dowel and hit tool touch off and z=0.
[04:07:41] <zeeshan-mill> and i repeated this for all my tools
[04:07:46] <zeeshan-mill> the relative position of all the tools makes sense
[04:07:52] <cradek> ok then it's fine
[04:08:03] <cradek> so what's wrong?
[04:08:12] <zeeshan-mill> now i went it selected tool 6 , m6 g43 and selected "tool touch off to workpiece"
[04:08:14] <PetefromTn_> don't you need H1?
[04:08:25] <furrywolf> I'll probably get a tool height sensor to aid with manual tool changes.
[04:08:28] <cradek> no no
[04:08:30] <zeeshan-mill> and touched off the top of my work piece
[04:08:34] <cradek> don't nuke your tool length
[04:08:59] <cradek> set a work offset (g54) for your workpiece
[04:09:24] <zeeshan-mill> ah shit
[04:09:27] <zeeshan-mill> okay let me fix this tool
[04:09:29] <cradek> load any tool, g43, touch the work, touch off (NOT tool touch off) z=0
[04:10:49] <zeeshan-mill> okay tlo z is still the same
[04:10:53] <zeeshan-mill> so i didnt nuke the tool offset :)
[04:11:27] <furrywolf> bbl
[04:11:43] <cradek> g'night wolfie
[04:11:55] <furrywolf> cyas :)
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[04:12:51] <zeeshan-mill> i did that
[04:12:58] <zeeshan-mill> and i have the same problem :(
[04:13:41] <cradek> which workpiece system did you touch off?
[04:14:00] <zeeshan-mill> g54
[04:14:18] <cradek> are you in g54?
[04:14:21] <zeeshan-mill> yes
[04:14:25] <zeeshan-mill> pic coming up
[04:14:29] <cradek> ok
[04:15:49] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/TQOUJgi.png
[04:16:00] <zeeshan-mill> my workspace is all below my program
[04:16:30] <zeeshan-mill> its calling a g28
[04:16:32] <cradek> I see a g49 on line 8
[04:17:42] <zeeshan-mill> i thought you were supposed to call g49 at the beginning of the program
[04:17:48] <cradek> I suspect your tool lenghts are crazy big
[04:17:49] <zeeshan-mill> to ensure no tool offsets were active
[04:17:57] <cradek> well if you have no TLO your program will be in a really wrong place
[04:18:08] <cradek> or is the tool change after this?
[04:18:15] <zeeshan-mill> tool change is after this
[04:18:25] <cradek> pastebin the gcode?
[04:18:40] <PetefromTn_> what exactly is the problem?
[04:19:12] <cradek> don't know yet
[04:19:17] <cradek> the program's not where he expects
[04:19:36] <zeeshan-mill> http://pastebin.com/NQgVJcV7
[04:19:50] <zeeshan-mill> PetefromTn_, you dont need to call h1 after
[04:19:58] <zeeshan-mill> when you do g43 it loads the associated tool offset by itself
[04:20:01] <zeeshan-mill> its better not to call hxxx
[04:20:15] <zeeshan-mill> cause i made the mistake of doing t3 m6 g43 h6 before
[04:20:19] <zeeshan-mill> and cradek caught that
[04:20:34] <zeeshan-mill> if the cam is outputting it, i let it write the register
[04:20:39] <zeeshan-mill> but i never do it manually anymore
[04:22:17] <cradek> this all looks pretty plausible
[04:22:37] <zeeshan-mill> what is funny is im jogging outside of the work area
[04:22:41] <zeeshan-mill> so im not sure what is going on there
[04:22:57] <zeeshan-mill> (as indicated by the yellow line
[04:23:02] <PetefromTn_> I always do and never had a problem
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[04:25:28] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/eQdml78.png
[04:25:31] <zeeshan-mill> that is what the dro shows
[04:26:07] <cradek> if you stick a ruler between the work and tool tip is it 8.3 inches?
[04:26:28] <cradek> I don't like TLOs being that big, but whatever as long as they are consistent
[04:26:38] <cradek> big negative is better than big positive
[04:27:26] <Tecan> the big one
[04:28:18] <zeeshan-mill> yea ruler shows 8.33 "
[04:28:22] <zeeshan-mill> 8.3
[04:28:25] <zeeshan-mill> ~
[04:28:27] <cradek> then it's fine
[04:30:42] <zeeshan-mill> weird
[04:30:44] <zeeshan-mill> the program runs
[04:30:46] <zeeshan-mill> without erroring out
[04:31:17] <cradek> I bet the preview is weird because you have moves without TLO applied
[04:31:31] <cradek> see N130 is a motion
[04:31:57] <zeeshan-mill> so i should be calling g43
[04:31:58] <zeeshan-mill> right away
[04:32:06] <cradek> I sure would
[04:32:06] <zeeshan-mill> not doing the move first
[04:32:08] <zeeshan-mill> lemme fix that
[04:33:11] <zeeshan-mill> didnt fix
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[04:33:40] <cradek> did you fix all 3?
[04:33:45] <Tecan> do you guys ever think this is a simulation ever ?
[04:33:58] <cradek> I'm off to bed
[04:34:03] <cradek> hope you get it zeeshan
[04:34:07] <zeeshan-mill> yes
[04:34:08] <zeeshan-mill> all 3
[04:34:12] <zeeshan-mill> cradek thanks for your help
[04:34:17] <cradek> welcome
[04:34:35] <Tecan> gnite cradek ;)
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[04:43:35] <zeeshan-mill> SUCCESS!!!!
[04:43:39] <zeeshan-mill> it tAPPED!!!!!!!
[04:47:09] <Tecan> sounds like progress
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[05:20:45] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Ed_ukQGcQ
[05:20:46] <zeeshan> =]
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[07:49:48] <Deejay> moin
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[09:15:21] <XXCoder> zeeshan-lab: way to go
[09:17:22] <XXCoder> archivist: remember the discussion about chucks for my grinder mill machine?
[09:27:18] <XXCoder> zeeshan-lab: geez what ipm is that at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWhrfoTLx7w
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[10:01:52] <archivist> router chucks yes
[10:02:13] <XXCoder> yeah I bought router to work
[10:02:41] <XXCoder> er11 do fit but not very well, my coworker warned that tool would be able to be pushed to angle. not good with 27000 rpm lol
[10:02:54] <XXCoder> but funny thing the larger grinder chucks do fit
[10:03:04] <XXCoder> so that is bit of good news.
[10:03:34] <archivist> balance is rather important at that rpm
[10:03:45] <XXCoder> yeah
[10:03:52] <XXCoder> so er11 is definitely out
[10:05:03] <SpeedEvil> Have you considered replacing the router shaft?
[10:05:50] <XXCoder> is that possible? interesting
[10:05:55] <archivist> that will be part of the motor itself
[10:06:22] <XXCoder> honestly I would replace with spindle once I could make spindle holder that can hold 53 mm
[10:06:35] <XXCoder> but meanwhile I can have fun with grinder anyway
[10:06:48] <archivist> I have seen people hack motors in that way :)
[10:07:28] <SpeedEvil> archivist: yes, it's part of the motor
[10:07:28] <XXCoder> hmm though the thing that holds tool is called chuck
[10:07:40] <XXCoder> but I may be wrong?
[10:07:40] <archivist> one put the gusts of an outrunner bldc on a parallel shaft er chuck
[10:07:45] <archivist> guts
[10:07:52] <XXCoder> oh yeah collet!
[10:08:17] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ER11-8MM-STRAIGHT-SHANK-COLLET-CHUCK-CNC-MILLING-LATHE-TOOL-WORKHOLDING-D66-/151515712309?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item23470a4b35
[10:08:32] <SpeedEvil> there are lots of 8mm brushless motors that you can replace the shaft on
[10:08:36] <XXCoder> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f25/17292d1258727479-ot-die-grinder-collets-draper-6mm-air-die-grinder-collet-38147-20556-air-die-grinder-kit.jpg
[10:08:44] <XXCoder> this type fit on my grinder!
[10:09:02] <XXCoder> nut even fit that front smaller diameter snugly even
[10:09:04] <SpeedEvil> And by replace the shaft, I mean make a new shaft, with an ER11 on the end
[10:09:25] <archivist> http://www.raynerd.co.uk/?p=1562
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[10:10:22] <archivist> get the right size chuck and its a press operation
[10:11:23] <XXCoder> nice
[10:11:41] <XXCoder> would be even nicer if body diameter is 43 mm lol
[10:12:33] <archivist> there are a few homebrew spindles designs out there
http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/cncspindle/
[10:13:01] <SpeedEvil> http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__51852__KB_44_65_Brushless_Inrunner_1520KV.html
[10:13:18] <SpeedEvil> Does 44mm count?
[10:13:37] <XXCoder> good question lol
[10:13:43] <archivist> file it down to 43?
[10:13:46] <XXCoder> depends on what its slack size is
[10:14:34] <XXCoder> it dont say rpm range?
[10:15:24] <archivist> which of the two?
[10:15:28] <SpeedEvil> Tehy often don't
[10:15:35] <XXCoder> speed;s link
[10:15:37] <SpeedEvil> Take the KV number and multiply by volts
[10:15:51] <SpeedEvil> 1520*6*4.2
[10:16:02] <SpeedEvil> 38000
[10:16:12] <XXCoder> fas.
[10:16:14] <XXCoder> fast.
[10:16:28] <XXCoder> with some suitable geardown it'd be nice and powerful
[10:16:42] <XXCoder> good planetary gear system lol
[10:16:55] <SpeedEvil> yes - small diameter motors are generally fast for their power
[10:17:06] <archivist> gearing produces torque, adds no power
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[10:17:39] <XXCoder> arch making own spindle wow nice
[10:17:42] <XXCoder> too bad no lathe
[10:17:49] <XXCoder> nor skills for it lol
[10:17:51] <SpeedEvil> http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__24853__Turnigy_AquaStar_T20_3T_730KV_1280KV_Water_Cooled_Brushless_Motor.html oooh
[10:19:11] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fGrITuuTZtQ
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[10:28:45] <SpeedEvil> nice
[10:28:56] <XXCoder> yeah.
[10:29:06] <XXCoder> there should be more 43mm spindles lol
[10:35:31] <archivist> the jet engine hobbyists have some nice balancing rigs
[10:35:51] <archivist> using piezo elements
[10:37:01] <archivist> http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/Gasturbines/Balancing_Tool/balancing_tool.html
[10:38:08] <SpeedEvil> phone accels are just fine
[10:38:13] <SpeedEvil> they go up to responding at 200hz
[10:38:42] <archivist> lovely catch22 have to make the spindle to make the balancing tool to make the spindle
[10:39:00] <XXCoder> dremel milling alum. interesting
[10:41:11] <archivist> one I spotted at a model engineer exhibition
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=shaft+balancing
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[10:49:16] <XXCoder> interesting
[10:51:01] <archivist> and one day I will scan a bit of BASIC I have that is for a balancing machine
[10:51:47] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=AN162
[10:52:23] <tiwake> I want a 200-300 horsepower jet engine to go in a car
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[11:04:09] <XXCoder> I want Elio now.
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[11:04:53] <SpeedEvil> tiwake:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/English-Electric-Canberra-WK127-RAF-Aircraft-Rolls-Royce-Avon-Mk1-Jet-Engine-/131452112034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1e9b280ca2
[11:08:44] <tiwake> not functionl?
[11:09:33] <tiwake> fuel leak
[11:10:06] <tiwake> SpeedEvil: what is its power output rating?
[11:10:24] <andypugh> They don’t quite power for jest do they?
[11:11:36] <andypugh> Sorry, let me try again. They don’t quote power for jets. Only thrust.
[11:11:40] <SpeedEvil> tiwake: several thousand, I'd guess
[11:12:27] <andypugh> It’s interesting just how different the Avon Mk1 and Avon Mk209 look:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/English-Electric-Lightning-P1B-RAF-Aircraft-Rolls-Royce-Avon-Mk209-Jet-Engine/141715218774?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29973%26meid%3D9b10252a4684449db445b553e44da908%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D131452112034
[11:12:27] <tiwake> andypugh: is there an approximation then?
[11:12:43] <andypugh> Power = thrust x vehicle speed.
[11:14:04] <andypugh> One of the reasons Whittle had trouble persuading the RAF to use his jets was that the top brass were only used to thinking about shaft horsepower and they didn’t understand what jet thrust meant.
[11:14:50] <tiwake> heh
[11:18:46] <andypugh> FWIW the second engine was 1370 lb thrust. The lightning would do 1500 mph. So that’s about 5500 hp.
[11:19:21] <andypugh> (But no propellor engine could provide 1370lbf at 1500mph, of course)
[11:20:17] <tiwake> ...thats about twice the speed of sound
[11:20:31] <andypugh> Yes. The Lightning was amazing.
[11:21:06] <andypugh> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Lightning
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[11:23:02] <tiwake> so assuming things scale linearly, I'd be looking for a jet engine with about 100 lb thrust
[11:23:20] <SpeedEvil> No
[11:23:28] <andypugh> The Lightning was the first thing to be able to do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CDLbokf9sg
[11:23:30] <SpeedEvil> You want a shaft output engine
[11:23:41] <SpeedEvil> these are used for helicopters
[11:24:40] <tiwake> ..?
[11:25:33] <SpeedEvil> yes
[11:26:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lycoming-T-53-huey-helicopter-gas-turbine-case-/121705740168?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c563a3788 - this sort of thing
[11:27:56] <tiwake> thats just a turbine engine with a shaft sticking out of it to drive something mechanical?
[11:27:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Russian-helicopter-MI-2-Gas-turbine-Engine-GTD-350-400-HP-/171865534072?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2803fbee78 or this
[11:27:59] <SpeedEvil> yes
[11:28:22] <SpeedEvil> 400hp shaft from a 135kg engine
[11:28:44] <tiwake> not sure what a piston engine generally is
[11:29:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www.engineering.com/DesignerEdge/DesignerEdgeArticles/ArticleID/7071/Nissans-40kg-400HP-Engine.aspx - you can get better with IC - thought that is quite an old engine
[11:31:16] <tiwake> is it made out of titanium or something? heh... I don't think thats a common weight for ~400hp piston engines
[11:31:42] <tiwake> could be wrong though, I've never weighed a piston engine before
[11:31:48] <SpeedEvil> No, it's not
[11:31:56] <SpeedEvil> That is going in their le-mans insane car
[11:34:01] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycoming_TIO-541 is perhaps comparable soirt-of
[11:34:20] <SpeedEvil> in that it's an aero engine of similar vintage
[11:34:36] <SpeedEvil> And weighs about double
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[11:36:23] <tiwake> ah, yeah... some googling and it seems engines of that power output weigh ~400-450lbs
[11:37:03] <tiwake> hmm, thats a cast iron head though
[11:37:24] <andypugh> A 200hp motorcycle weighs about 250lbs. So I suspect that two motorcycle engines bolted together would work
[11:37:55] <andypugh> Hang on, that was a terribly typo. A 200hp bike is 400lbs.
[11:38:26] <tiwake> the whole bike?
[11:38:46] <andypugh> Yes, the ehole bike. I don’t know what the engine weighs, but I can lift it.
[11:39:00] <tiwake> sounds about right
[11:40:07] <andypugh> Or there is this: 310hp and 490lb:
http://www.kawasaki.co.uk/en/products/supersport/2015/ninja_h2r/specifications?Uid=095FC1teWA1cDA4NXVsNXFoKDVBfUVsJDl8KWl9fCgsOUQo
[11:44:49] <andypugh> Which seems to demolish a Veyron, rather surprisingly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi5_GQ78wM8
[11:45:29] <andypugh> (I would normally expect a car to have an advantage above 120, just because riders have dreadful aero)
[11:46:46] <SpeedEvil> yes, the veyron is 1200hp
[11:46:56] <SpeedEvil> but it's also 4000lb
[11:47:45] <SpeedEvil> But aero - yes
[11:48:10] <andypugh> Also more common than the H2R. I kept seeing them driving around or parked up over the last two weeks.
[11:50:43] <andypugh> Hmm, actually, I kept seeing a SuperSport (with orange bits) but the others might well have been Bugatti Chirons.
[11:51:49] <andypugh> (we shared an office in the hotel woth
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1085603_2017-renault-alpine-as1-spy-shots too)
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[12:19:40] <archivist> thinking of the Lightening I came across a slide in the Lucas stuff
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=p1a
[12:24:49] <cradek> zeeshan-lab: yay!
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[13:00:19] <andypugh> Doh!
[13:01:33] <andypugh> “Why won’t this blasted mill controller PC boot? It booted 2 weeks ago before my work trip…. Different keyboards, different monitors, boot from USB etc. Nothing. Then I remembered I had taken the memory out to boot something else…”
[13:02:14] <archivist> user error at line one
[13:02:19] <Tom_itx> bios come up?
[13:02:39] <andypugh> no bios
[13:02:52] <Tom_itx> no beep codes?
[13:02:54] <archivist> only beeps with no memory
[13:03:00] <Tom_itx> or do they still do that...
[13:03:10] <archivist> and only if you connected the speaker
[13:03:15] <andypugh> Nothing to beepo with
[13:04:33] <Tom_itx> http://www.pchell.com/hardware/beepcodes.shtml
[13:08:32] <Tom_itx> check the psu voltages?
[13:09:20] <Tom_itx> look for swollen caps
[13:14:13] <archivist> Tom_itx, you didnt notice the line where he had taken the ram out
[13:14:36] <Tom_itx> yes but i figured he put it back in and still had issues
[13:16:37] <Tom_itx> sounds like something i would do
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[13:53:26] <andypugh> No, with the RAM in it works just fine.
[13:53:35] <andypugh> And this is a brand-new MB
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[14:25:03] <andypugh> I wonder what the right feed and speed is for milling EZ-out material?
[14:25:33] <andypugh> I guessed at 100rpm and 0.1mm/min :-)
[14:25:43] <andypugh> (not my brake caliper, I know better)
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[14:34:55] <andypugh> Anyone need a touch-probe and infra-red interfave at a very cheap price? I don’t think he knows what he is selling:
[14:34:56] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blum-CNC-probe-system-BLUM-/221831341767?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a62da6c7
[14:35:24] <archivist> I have that in my watch list
[14:35:40] <archivist> and a bid on a cheaper one :)
[14:36:00] <andypugh> Its a buy-it-now ?
[14:36:13] <archivist> no
[14:37:34] <archivist> I have 1 day 5 hours left
[14:38:20] <archivist> the blum is on its second or more times round
[14:38:33] <andypugh> £68 seems very cheap
[14:38:39] <archivist> was 80 last week
[14:38:54] <andypugh> I paid £50 for my “Renshaw” but that had no reciever unit
[14:40:06] <archivist> I am planning to make one for the fun of it along the renishaw strain gauge idea but different
[14:40:47] <archivist> with a few bits of chinesium and real renishaw stylii
[14:42:57] <Tom_itx> maybe a cheaper alternative to tips
https://www.carbideprobes.com/
[14:47:16] <archivist> I got one probe which is just too big and suffers from a fault that renishaw talks about when they came out with the strain type but much worse
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[14:47:54] <archivist> the triangular error term from the contact arrangement
[14:48:50] <archivist> to big
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=probe+pd
[14:49:21] <trentster> howdy all - for those of you who are interested - I just started a little cnc community site for folks like us who find interesting articles and cnc links on the web and want to share with others. Also lets people upvote and download submitted content based on how cool they think stuff is. It kinda brand new - but if you want toc check it out, the url is
http://cnc4.me/
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[14:50:52] <archivist> phail on older browsers
[14:52:13] <archivist> trentster, not a lot
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/grabs/Screenshot-27.png
[14:53:48] <trentster> archivist: thats odd you should get a page like this
[14:53:49] <trentster> http://monosnap.com/image/k1TeHauBiFAljvzkd2rIGMC947kHCR
[14:54:03] <trentster> let me test from elsewhere
[14:55:53] <archivist> I just see lots of loading etc at bottom left, something I am seeing from lots of broken web2 and javascript stuff
[14:58:18] <trentster> odd -i have tested from both OSX and Windows - both firefox and chrome.
[14:58:54] <trentster> Not near a Linux machine at the moment tho - maybe its a linux browser issue, I will continue testing tho - thanks for the heads up archivist
[14:59:05] <archivist> osx and windaz, in cnc land we use linux
[14:59:28] <Deejay> on 39.0 firefox on ubuntu its fine
[14:59:40] <trentster> yeah I use Linux to send gcode - real work I do on Mac's
[14:59:46] <trentster> :P
[15:00:14] <trentster> Deejay: Thanks mate
[15:01:58] <archivist> Page Speed Score: 23/100
[15:02:27] <archivist> ew 149 resources
[15:03:26] <trentster> archivist: it has not been optomized it uses the meteor framework, which is node.js etc - i didnt write it
[15:03:31] <Rab> Was able to see on FF 39.0 on Slackware, but I had to enable javascript before it would load.
[15:04:05] <archivist> trentster, I can see it is all jz and no sense
[15:04:09] <archivist> js
[15:04:13] <Tom_itx> the interweb can do just fine with out java
[15:04:26] <trentster> 99% of most modern web apps need javascript enabled unfortunately
[15:04:32] <archivist> the excess of js needs stamping on
[15:05:20] <Deejay> you guys browse the web with lynx, do you? ;-)
[15:05:28] <Deejay> no js, no graphics, text only
[15:05:34] <Tom_itx> 99% of most modern webpages don't load worth a crap either
[15:05:47] <archivist> nope a venerable version of firefox
[15:06:24] <archivist> dont need no fancy wizbangs to see html
[15:07:27] <archivist> size is 11.79MB for the page
[15:07:41] <Deejay> whut? 11 megs? rofl
[15:07:56] <archivist> html would be about 100k
[15:08:23] <Rab> FWIW neither cnczone nor homeshopmachinist require js (at least to view).
[15:08:43] <archivist> js abuse is a retrograde step
[15:09:19] <trentster> archivist: a full page load for me is 128K
[15:09:33] <Tom_itx> win 10 will fix everything
[15:09:35] <Rab> Both seem to be running vBulletin.
[15:10:22] <archivist> trentster, that is cached, the real size it larger
[15:10:45] <archivist> my fugly front page is 4 resources 54.5kB
[15:11:21] <archivist> the largest part of that is google analytics js :)
[15:11:43] <Rab> sinister
[15:12:25] <archivist> i did have google webmaster tools complain about their own +1 when I tried that
[15:12:31] <trentster> well its not in production yet or minified, its just a test instance, just trying to get some feedback from folks to see if anyone find it useful.
[15:13:47] <archivist> try a wiki or something, but there is already competing stuff out there
[15:13:51] <trentster> archivist fwiw I am in IT myself and I know quite a bit about speed optimization, e.g. here is an article from my personal blog site
http://blog.smartcore.net.au/fast-wordpress-on-smartos-with-varnish/ :-)
[15:14:27] <trentster> just so you know you don't need to get hung up with speed and elitism at this point yet, its just a proof oc concept
[15:14:44] <archivist> thing about wordpress and others is the need to use varnish, just design the problems out earlier
[15:15:33] <archivist> I do have a wordpress instance here
[15:15:45] <trentster> sigh - yup
[15:16:17] <trentster> archivist did you even look at the page or just read the url and make assumptions
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[15:18:46] <archivist> I understand caching the output for speed, because the basic underlying stuff is slow, one can design more speed in the first place
[15:20:34] <trentster> archivist: my poing being by showing you my technical blog is to say "hey, dude, please dont get hung up on telling me how slow the site is - cause i am kind of a technical person IT wise myself - the point being is, is it a good idea to have a community resource like this where people can get involved?
[15:21:17] <trentster> I have not seen anything like this before so I dthought it may be a nice thing to have and wanted to get feedback about the "idea" - kapish
[15:21:19] <Tom_itx> i thought that's what the linuxcnc wiki was
[15:21:38] <archivist> and what cnczone is
[15:22:05] <trentster> This is not purely for linuxcnc - its for anything cnc, for people who find interesting youtube videos on cnc or 3d printing or robotics or new materials etc etc
[15:22:08] <Tom_itx> guess you can carry on and see how it goes
[15:22:50] <Tom_itx> i don't go to a particular site for all my needs, rather search for what i need and go to the best resource for it
[15:22:55] <trentster> cnczone is a forum - its a totally different concept, this is visual and has community up/down voting so the neat stuff that people really like gets to the top of the list
[15:25:05] <archivist> I dont regularly go to any of the vote type sites at the moment either, I get the interesting links I suppose from here
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[15:26:02] <trentster> ok thanks for the feedback mate
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[15:36:36] <Loetmichel> Hmm, thats a new one... BSODs are normal every other time. but this time it was a deadlock with frosen screens that not even the reset button nor the Power button pressend >4s could remedy... had to pull the plug... and after reboot the Cmos was empty?!?
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[15:40:48] <kengu> i knew i was missing a channel
[15:41:04] <DaViruz> probably cosmic rays! you need mre shielding ;)
[15:42:31] <andypugh> trentster: Loads OK here. I think that the idea has some merit.
[15:43:54] <trentster> andypugh: thanks so do I :-)
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[15:44:42] <andypugh> In other news: I milled out the EZ-out from the brake caliper with no problems. But when I got to the end of the thread the remains of the nipple spun freely rather than cut, and the cutter broke. I got the remains out and the thread is undamaged, but it cost me a cutter.
[15:45:10] <trentster> I am busy adding some content and new links then I will mention it in some other places and see if it naturally builds up some critical mass
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[16:06:50] <zeeshan> XXCoder: about 4000 ipm or something
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[16:23:44] <motioncontrol> Hi at all. i want move Y axis the machine, with servo motor , in gantry mode, how can realized this, exist a hal file example ?
[16:31:39] <andypugh> sim/axis/gantry ?
[16:32:08] <archivist> motioncontrol, your question is not that clear, many use servo and gantry machines what is the real problem
[16:32:59] <motioncontrol> The problem i thing is homing procedure.
[16:33:17] <motioncontrol> But i stay thing use drive in master -slave configuration.
[16:33:26] <archivist> dual motor?
[16:33:33] <motioncontrol> yes dual motor
[16:33:50] <motioncontrol> two ball screw
[16:35:57] <archivist> a google search for linuxcnc gantry homing finds a few resources, never done this myself
[16:37:06] <motioncontrol> ok thanks
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[16:53:23] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, saw your thread video..
[16:53:34] <zeeshan> it works!
[16:54:25] <Tom_itx> you didn't put a screw in the hole though
[16:54:47] <zeeshan> to test it?
[16:54:52] <Tom_itx> yeah
[16:54:53] <zeeshan> i tested it
[16:54:55] <zeeshan> it works :P
[16:55:02] <Tom_itx> i figured it would
[16:58:54] <zeeshan> one thing i was wondering during tapping yesterday
[16:59:14] <zeeshan> if i accidently set the feed over ride to 50%
[16:59:19] <zeeshan> wouldn't that blow up the tap
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[17:06:07] <andypugh> I think G33.1 is exempt from feed override
[17:06:23] <zeeshan> do you know where in the source g33.1's program is
[17:07:43] <Tom_itx> the axis should still follow the spindle
[17:08:28] <zeeshan> i guess i can do a check by setting the feed override to 2%
[17:08:30] <zeeshan> and see what happens
[17:10:09] <andypugh> zeeshan:
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git&a=search&h=66ec566cfb09bf6d1e959b48cd53d3aa051ca44e&st=grep&s=RIGID_TAP
[17:11:28] <andypugh> Probably start in emccanon.cc and work from there
[17:11:43] <zeeshan> i think i found it
[17:11:44] <zeeshan> tp.c
[17:11:54] <zeeshan> tpUpdateRigidTapState
[17:12:20] <zeeshan> is there anyway to start linuxcnc in debug mode?
[17:12:28] <zeeshan> so i can actually see those debug print messages
[17:12:32] <Tom_itx> wonder how hard it would be to take that code, separate the XY move to a separate rapid move then plunge Z and call it G84
[17:13:00] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: probably not a lot of work
[17:13:05] <zeeshan> the meat is there :P
[17:13:20] <zeeshan> i'm not used to the code placement of linuxcnc
[17:13:21] <Tom_itx> it would be more fitting for a rigid tap cycle
[17:14:45] <Tom_itx> the problem would be calling it from different work planes or axis
[17:15:09] <zeeshan> couldnt you use like a g73 drill cycle
[17:15:12] <zeeshan> as a barebones
[17:15:19] <zeeshan> and just integrate tapping to that?
[17:15:24] <zeeshan> cause that already takes care of the work planes
[17:15:36] <zeeshan> i really do want to learn the code
[17:15:40] <zeeshan> so i can be more useful :)
[17:15:43] <Tom_itx> i'm sure someone could
[17:16:03] <Tom_itx> i'd like to as well but realize my limitations
[17:16:04] <zeeshan> the thing that confuses me is
[17:16:16] <zeeshan> im modifying say tp.c
[17:16:20] <zeeshan> and there is already a new version out
[17:16:25] <Tom_itx> i've done imbedded c but not for pc or rt etc
[17:16:34] <zeeshan> i feel like what if i do something that'll interfere with someone elses work?
[17:16:38] <zeeshan> that was also working onthe source tree
[17:16:59] <Tom_itx> that's why you create a branch and when it's ready, submit it for review
[17:17:31] <Tom_itx> then they will decide to merge it to the mainstream code
[17:17:53] <zeeshan> ah
[17:18:11] <zeeshan> but what if during the time i was working on tp.c
[17:18:17] <zeeshan> someone else also made modifications
[17:18:25] <zeeshan> now we have 2 copies of tp.c
[17:18:38] <zeeshan> that might conflict with each other depending on how it was modified
[17:18:47] <Tom_itx> that's why you ask
[17:18:58] <zeeshan> ask what
[17:19:08] <Tom_itx> or they both get merged together then pushed
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[17:32:42] <andypugh> zeeshan: If you try to push after someone else has pushed an imcompatible change then the merge will fail and you are told you need to reconcile the changes before the push is possible.
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[17:34:28] <zeeshan-mill> ah
[17:34:40] <zeeshan-mill> andypugh, but im thinking of this
[17:34:48] <zeeshan-mill> bob made int a = 25
[17:35:13] <zeeshan-mill> and bob was doing c = a*10 and expecting 250
[17:35:38] <zeeshan-mill> while zeeshan made a = 50; and was expecting c to be 500
[17:35:57] <zeeshan-mill> youre saying that a conflict will be detected when a merge tries to happen
[17:36:02] <zeeshan-mill> because 25 != 50
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[17:38:31] <cradek> yes, when you merge git will tell you: you have to figure this section here out
[17:39:09] <cradek> it's usually fine and pretty easy
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[17:45:42] <zeeshan-mill> okay
[17:45:56] <zeeshan-mill> btw rigid tapping works :)
[17:46:11] <cradek> saw your video!
[17:47:37] <zeeshan-mill> btw, whoever programmed g33.1 did a good job
[17:47:47] <zeeshan-mill> so if you have feed override at 0%, it wont move
[17:47:54] <zeeshan-mill> but asap you move it to 1%
[17:48:07] <zeeshan-mill> itll start rigid tapping at the correct speed , ignoring the feed percentage
[17:48:25] <cradek> yeah he's one of our cleverest
[17:51:28] <cradek> handsome too
[17:51:37] <zeeshan-mill> haha who is it
[17:51:51] <zeeshan-mill> you?
[17:51:55] <cradek> heh it was me
[17:52:01] <zeeshan-mill> nice
[17:52:03] <cradek> I did threading and tapping
[17:52:37] <zeeshan-mill> sweet!
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[17:56:35] <Tom_itx> merge it to G84 with separate X Y moves now :D
[17:56:56] <cradek> that would be nice
[17:57:11] <Tom_itx> it would make a proper canned cycle out of it
[17:57:30] <cradek> but g84 gets the pitch implicitly from f/s and I think that's icky
[17:58:00] <cradek> it would be nice if tapping was a real cycle though.
[18:00:33] <Tom_itx> how to handle a lefthand thread would be next then
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[18:00:59] <Tom_itx> not that common but cnc's do it
[18:02:16] <cradek> does g33.1 not work LH?
[18:02:21] <cradek> surely it does
[18:02:35] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[18:02:49] <Tom_itx> oh i bet it does
[18:03:02] <Tom_itx> you'd just reverse the spindle order in the canned cycle
[18:03:25] <cradek> just start in m4
[18:03:30] <Tom_itx> that probably could be 'if'd with a parameter
[18:03:38] <Tom_itx> using the same cycle
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[18:08:03] <Tom_itx> you've almost got _me_ wanting to look at the code
[18:12:59] <Tom_itx> i think that would be a huge learning curve though
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[19:33:35] <Aero-Tec> is setting up a cnc plasma cutter hard to do?
[19:33:54] <Aero-Tec> I got a miller 675 with the CNC interface
[19:34:08] <Aero-Tec> but no info on what the 6 wires do
[19:34:16] <Aero-Tec> or how to use them
[19:34:48] <Aero-Tec> no info if a THC is part of the miller CNC interface or not
[19:36:09] <membiblio> Aero-Tec - Miller is excellent about tech support - just call them and they will help you with what ever you need.
[19:36:31] <membiblio> And - the schematic of the Miller is pasted to the inside of the cabinet.
[19:36:42] <Aero-Tec> looked at CandCNC unit and the THC card from Mesa
[19:36:54] <Aero-Tec> cool thanks
[19:37:09] <Aero-Tec> there seams to be tons of ways to do it
[19:37:23] <Aero-Tec> I was wanting a live tracking THC
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[19:37:56] <Aero-Tec> so when cutting a 45 gal barrel it would see and react to the ribs
[19:38:25] <membiblio> Oh... hm. How are you going to do that - vision - or some other way?
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[19:39:01] <Aero-Tec> or comp for warping or whatever
[19:39:05] <membiblio> How and why does it need to react to the ribs?
[19:40:45] <Aero-Tec> the ribs in a barrel are somewhat high, would the torch not need to raise and lower for that?
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[19:41:55] <membiblio> How high are they Aero-Tec?
[19:42:03] <membiblio> About 1/4 of a inch?
[19:42:15] <Loetmichel> haha, wife just made dinner... a 600gr steak... with 2 100gr strips of bacon as a side. THATS a manly dinner! ;)
[19:42:46] <membiblio> Be sure to take your cholesterol med first :)
[19:42:47] <Aero-Tec> some have capacitance, others voltage sensing, some arc count of some sort
[19:43:04] <Aero-Tec> It looks to be more then 1/4 inch
[19:43:23] <membiblio> Does your Miller have a cpu / control card on the face of the machine?
[19:43:27] <Aero-Tec> have not measured it yet
[19:43:41] <Aero-Tec> yes
[19:43:44] <Aero-Tec> a port
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[19:44:04] <Aero-Tec> I bought the factory interface
[19:44:24] <Aero-Tec> you replace the front panel to install it
[19:44:48] <membiblio> Some Millers are dumb some are smart. If you have a cpu card that is part of the front face of the machine - like if you have a display and it displays error codes - then yes you can sense parts of the machines 'workings'
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[19:45:28] <Aero-Tec> not sure of the error code pert
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[19:45:31] <membiblio> I took apart a Miller to repair it and spent a bit of time diagnosing before calling Miller - it was the torch wire :) but I learned a lot - not a bad thing
[19:45:45] <membiblio> Is your Miller water cooled?
[19:45:58] <Aero-Tec> my miller wire feed MIG is CPU controlled and has a computer port
[19:46:22] <Aero-Tec> no
[19:46:39] <membiblio> I'm not a welder, just a EE specializing in embedded systems so I have to learn every day when working outside my field.
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[19:47:05] <Aero-Tec> I learn every day as well
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[19:47:18] <Aero-Tec> self employed
[19:47:24] <membiblio> The machine I took apart was water cooled and big. A little larger than a dorm refrigerator (3.5' tall and square
[19:47:32] <membiblio> Oh me too! Self employeed.
[19:47:49] <Aero-Tec> sounds like my miller shop master 300
[19:48:05] <membiblio> So inside the Miller that I took apart was about 3 sensors for various current sense 'stuff'
[19:48:13] <membiblio> I can post a pic of the schematic if you like.
[19:48:17] <Aero-Tec> it almost sounds like a airplane when the fans are running
[19:49:06] <Aero-Tec> I need plasma cutter info right now
[19:49:24] <Aero-Tec> my miller 250 MIG is working fine
[19:49:32] <Aero-Tec> but thanks for the offer
[19:49:55] <membiblio> I think my point - you should be able to interface to the machine - even if there is no port - to do the sensing you anticipated. Think fuzzily. :)
[19:50:05] <Aero-Tec> how good is the miller plasma cutter?
[19:50:50] <membiblio> I don't know. The guys at a company I support use it all day, all week, all year, years - only the one single problem and that was a broken torch wire :)
[19:51:02] <Aero-Tec> there is a HD torch by some other brand that some claim to be more accurate
[19:51:35] <membiblio> And when I called for support - they were spectacularly excellent. Miller Spectacularly Excellent. :)
[19:51:46] <Aero-Tec> cool
[19:52:01] <membiblio> This one has water that flows to the torch and back.
[19:52:19] <Aero-Tec> I can add that to mine
[19:52:38] <Aero-Tec> right now a gas cool one works well for what I do
[19:53:04] <Aero-Tec> adding a water cooled torch is a easy do
[19:54:02] <membiblio> ok I'm off to do something physical - nice meeting you - ttyl !
[19:54:08] <Aero-Tec> on the barrel ribs I would guess they are about 1/2 inch or so high
[19:54:56] <membiblio> That is a lot, yes I would think you probably need to go slower near them to cut completely through
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[19:55:36] <Aero-Tec> I see some just touch the steel and pull up some and cut
[19:56:04] <Aero-Tec> how fancy do you need to get
[19:56:51] <Aero-Tec> I would like to have it doing production work so I need my consumables to last and for the work to be top notch
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[20:01:13] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/lkLAI55.jpg I so need to make one of these LED rings for my spindle...
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[20:29:03] <kengu> hmm.. in lasercutter rebuild steppers step when ever laser fires. not desired action.
[20:29:29] <XXCoder> zeeshan: dang!!! 4k ipm! I know its not fastest ever, heard of 10k ipm but yeah fast
[20:32:01] <XXCoder> zeeshan-mill:
[20:33:45] <pcw_home> 4000 ipm is only 3.79 MPH
[20:34:30] <pcw_home> just a brisk walk
[20:34:53] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: can you "brisk walk" a 90° corner?
[20:35:18] <pcw_home> nothing can
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[20:42:18] <pcw_home> A good sprinter can get close to 1G acceleration and 26000 IPM though
[20:45:23] <cradek> 1G acceleration is very easy if you're not picky about the direction
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[20:45:46] <pcw_home> Yeah I can do it upwards
[20:46:23] <cradek> I think downward is easier
[20:46:40] <pcw_home> well yes
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[20:48:29] <XXCoder> fastest machine I have ever heard of was 10,000 ipm
[20:51:18] <zeeshan-mill> we have a machine at school
[20:51:56] <zeeshan-mill> that cuts at 8000m/min
[20:52:00] <zeeshan-mill> 314960 ipm
[20:52:09] <zeeshan-mill> they were using it to test how fast you can cut aluminum
[20:52:28] <zeeshan-mill> cradek 96 tapped holes in 9 minutes
[20:52:32] <XXCoder> 298 mph
[20:52:40] <zeeshan-mill> sure as hell beats tapping by hand!!
[20:52:43] <XXCoder> most cars cant beat that
[20:52:50] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[20:53:31] <XXCoder> if there was one long enough to cover length of drag racing, car would lose lol
[20:53:45] <XXCoder> and they got nice long alum cut... maybe? lol
[20:54:30] <SpeedEvil> Do you actually mean 110m/s axis movement and not rotary cutter speed?
[20:55:52] <SpeedEvil> I could believe the former
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[21:05:33] <SpeedEvil> If I haven't screwed up the numbers, to get to 110m/s and back in 1m would take per kilo of weight - 20 megawatts axis motors
[21:05:43] <SpeedEvil> assuming said axis motors were massless
[21:06:01] <SpeedEvil> oops - 80MW
[21:07:09] <SpeedEvil> (caution: done in head and I'm tired)
[21:08:19] <XXCoder> zeeshan-mill: that machine moves at 0.000000426c lol
[21:09:02] <XXCoder> 1% is 670 million mph
[21:09:06] <CaptHindsight> c = velocity of light in a vacuum?
[21:09:11] <XXCoder> yep
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[21:11:13] <XXCoder> actually NOT 1% but just 1 - ie. 100% oops
[21:11:25] <XXCoder> (for 670 million mph)
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[21:16:00] <zeeshan> lol
[21:16:31] <zeeshan> actually i just looked it up
[21:16:41] <SpeedEvil> c=1ns/foot
[21:16:46] <zeeshan> yea it is 8000m/min
[21:17:01] <zeeshan> its a test apparatus
[21:17:07] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEpsKnWZrJ8
[21:17:20] <SpeedEvil> grace hopper on nanoseconds
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[21:26:04] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: To get to 100m/s in 1m and back requires that you accellerate in .5m to 100m/s - taking 10ms. This is 10000m/s^2, or 10000N per kilo of weight. Or at peak speed of 110m/s, 1.1 megawatts per kilo. That seems unlikely.
[21:26:36] <zeeshan> who says youre limited to 1m?
[21:26:43] <zeeshan> its a long rail
[21:27:20] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[21:27:31] <zeeshan> if i find the paper
[21:27:35] <zeeshan> ill link it
[21:27:41] <SpeedEvil> The numbers do get somewhat lot better at 10m.
[21:27:55] <SpeedEvil> But the moving axes mass gets higher.
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[21:38:45] <XXCoder> foot per nanosecond interesting
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[22:18:06] <Deejay> gn8
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[23:21:39] <Roguish> you guys like weather? check this out. so neat:
https://www.windyty.com/?35.174,-116.719,3
[23:23:07] <andypugh> Pretty!
[23:27:14] <andypugh> Yesterday I went from 39C (101F) in Granada (even in Spain the news was full og heatwave stories) to 13C (55F) and rain in the UK sufficient to close Tube Stations due to flooding. A bit of a contrast.
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[23:28:20] <PetefromTn_> 95F here
[23:28:32] <andypugh> Friday was:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33662965
[23:28:50] <Roguish> Here in the East Bay, San Francisco, it going into 100+F next week.
[23:28:57] <andypugh> (A typical July amount of rain in one day)
[23:29:07] <Roguish> but low humidity..... unlike TN
[23:29:11] <PetefromTn_> we have had no end of rain along with the heat
[23:30:34] <XXCoder> hey PetefromTn_
[23:30:46] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[23:30:55] <XXCoder> you menioned led lighting ring
[23:30:58] <XXCoder> it seems very doable
[23:31:08] <PetefromTn_> yup pretty cheap and simple mod
[23:31:27] <PetefromTn_> just have never done it yet
[23:31:31] <XXCoder> heck you can even grab some usb lighting that has 3 or 4 and modify it and use some tube
[23:32:25] <jdh> I got an LED ring light to go on my mill... still in the packag
[23:32:52] <XXCoder> dunno what my lighting plan is atm lol but I do have 2 unused 40 watt led bulbs I can use.
[23:33:04] <XXCoder> its years old
[23:34:15] <PetefromTn_> my machine has a nice machinists lamp already installed and I was going to add a couple of those LED waterproof housing lamps around the top of the enclosure for ambient light as well.
[23:34:20] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, i did a light ring for my scope once
[23:34:30] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/scope/led_harness_on.jpg
[23:34:40] <PetefromTn_> But the idea of the LED ring seems that it would put a LOT of light right where you need it most
[23:34:57] <PetefromTn_> scope?
[23:35:10] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/scope/scope2.jpg
[23:35:25] <PetefromTn_> ok
[23:35:34] <XXCoder> Pete it would be ideal for big machines
[23:35:51] <XXCoder> my machine is small so 2 lights in both directions would work well
[23:36:49] <andypugh> I just use:
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/00169659/ (with the bases removed)
[23:37:36] <andypugh> But that is partly because I always seem to need CNC machine parts on Sunday :-)
[23:37:43] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/9qoNF8W.jpg
[23:37:46] <Tom_itx> i think i prefer those since you can move it where you want it
[23:37:49] <PetefromTn_> that is what my machine came with
[23:38:03] <XXCoder> I wish machines I use have that
[23:38:17] <XXCoder> they all have "corner lights" which suck in some cases
[23:38:44] <andypugh> Tom_itx: The IKEA lights are on goosenecks
[23:40:09] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:40:17] <Tom_itx> that's what i meant
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[23:48:33] <Tom_itx> those are 7 bux here if you join
[23:48:46] <Tom_itx> http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20169658/
[23:49:45] <Tom_itx> andypugh, does it use a walwart?
[23:50:44] <andypugh> Yes, a 4V one, but they run fine of 5V
[23:52:41] <andypugh> I did some tests and it looks like there is a regulator in the light, as the current draw is constant from 4V to 10V
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