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[00:04:10] -!- robinsz [robinsz!~robin@88.97.63.122] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:04:24] <robinsz> evening
[00:04:44] <robinsz> so, 2.7 seems good, the lookahead trajectory planner actually works
[00:06:47] <robinsz> im impressed, I could have used this on plasmas all those years ago :) but it works great on my router
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[00:07:13] <robinsz> so kudos to whoever is responsible for that
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[00:14:14] <furrywolf> yeah, I've heard a lot of people saying 2.7 works much, much better than 2.6. I'll be trying it when I get a mesa board...
[00:14:33] <Tom_itx> seems alot of good features are gonna show up in it
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[00:31:11] <spline> what types/brands of machines do you run linuxcnc with?
[00:31:41] <furrywolf> us specifically, or linuxcnc users in general?
[00:32:07] <spline> interested in both
[00:32:18] <spline> im new to cnc (not new to linux but love the fact you can run something on it)
[00:32:18] <furrywolf> I'm poor, so I have a chinese lathe/mill combo machine.
[00:32:29] <spline> I was specing out machines, new and looking on ebay
[00:32:38] <spline> something small just for desktop use
[00:33:00] <spline> my local hackerspace has an old bridgeport they're converting over to a gecko controller and are gonna use linuxcnc on it (huge machine but was donated)
[00:33:08] <spline> furrywolf: something via ebay/amazon?
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[00:36:24] <spline> I saw a # of basic machines for a few hundred there
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[00:48:52] <jdh> gecko steppers or servo?
[00:50:22] <malcom2073> steppers are cheaper, easier to setup, and for most intents, plenty powerful and accurate enough
[00:50:46] <malcom2073> Oh that was a question for spline, didn't read up enough
[00:51:29] <cradek> there are lots of mistakes one can make, but taking working servos off an industrial machine is one of the worst ones
[00:51:48] <cradek> I think jdh is politely asking whether they're making that mistake :-)
[00:51:57] <malcom2073> Heh
[00:53:32] <spline> oh
[00:53:54] <spline> whomever is doing it knows what they're doing. I just remembered the name from reading about it on candc.net
[00:55:37] <jdh> that, and gecko servo drivers seem pretty lame
[00:55:45] <DaViruz> nothing makes me cringe like seeing a nice servo machine get converted to steppers and mach3
[00:56:10] <malcom2073> I've been tempted to convert my machine over, but I'm givin it a try with a mesa board and the servo drives first.
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[00:58:38] <cradek> cnc is so nice. I'm cutting this at .06 ipm for probably an hour. can't imagine feeding that by hand.
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[01:00:17] <Simonious> I've got a model i've just made in solidworks (which I'm quite new to) and I want to generate some gcode for the router table (using cambam). How and what should I export from solidworks? I don't think DXF will work, because that's only for 2D? and this has z components..? please advise.
[01:00:46] <Tom_itx> iges is 3d
[01:00:55] <Tom_itx> and fairly standard
[01:01:01] <Tom_itx> stl might work
[01:01:09] <Simonious> Also I've modeled the whole object and I only want to cut the surface.. (I come from the 3d printing world)
[01:01:38] <Simonious> stls are what I usually use, but that'd have info for the whole object and I only want to cut the top face?
[01:01:46] <furrywolf> why would you ever convert a servo machine to steppers, unless you were missing the servos, encoders, and drives? heh
[01:01:56] <malcom2073> furrywolf: cheaper
[01:02:13] <furrywolf> malcom2073: not cheaper if you already have any of the parts
[01:02:16] <cradek> often making a solid model is not the simplest or fastest way to make a part with subtractive technology
[01:02:23] <cradek> that being said, I don't know how to do it
[01:02:26] <malcom2073> Debatable. I picked up a 3 axis 10 amp stepper drive for $150
[01:02:41] <malcom2073> If even one of my servo drives dies, it'll cost that much to replace each one
[01:03:09] <Simonious> cradek: that's my suspicion.. This is really the first time I've attempted a 3d model for the router, normally I just cut out shapes or engrave a name..
[01:03:23] <cradek> back up -- what are you trying to make?
[01:03:46] <Simonious> cradek: it's actually a name on a board, but I need to shape the whole face
[01:03:58] <Simonious> the name stands out from a curved front face of the board
[01:04:12] <Simonious> so I need to cut the entire face
[01:04:22] <cradek> ooh, tricky
[01:04:25] <cradek> I don't know how to do that
[01:04:29] <Tom_itx> export it with iges or stl
[01:04:32] <Simonious> Tom_itx: you mentioned iges - how is tha tused?
[01:04:34] <Simonious> *used
[01:04:41] <Tom_itx> then lay a mesh on top of the surface in cambam
[01:04:56] <Simonious> hmm, that makes some sense
[01:05:13] <Simonious> I don't know how, but I'll start working in that direction - is ignes or stl better?
[01:05:22] <Tom_itx> i generally use iges
[01:05:23] <Simonious> *iges
[01:05:25] <Simonious> why?
[01:05:36] <Tom_itx> it's farily universal
[01:05:45] * Simonious nods
[01:06:25] <Simonious> I actually don't yet know how to export from solidworks..
[01:06:27] * Simonious pokes around
[01:06:43] <Tom_itx> save as
[01:06:50] <Tom_itx> and pick your format
[01:07:34] <Simonious> heh, easy :)
[01:07:36] <Simonious> thanks
[01:07:48] <Tom_itx> check to see what cambam imports
[01:08:32] <Tom_itx> i don't use cambam so someone else here may help you with that but i'd lay a mesh on top of the surface and offset it a few times depending on the depth of cut
[01:08:40] <Simonious> hmm sad, it does stl, not igs
[01:08:51] <Tom_itx> so save as stl then
[01:10:27] <Simonious> it makes nice STLs :)
[01:11:40] <Tom_itx> a good cad cam will let you lay the mesh like a waterline so you don't waste cuts
[01:11:53] <Tom_itx> i doubt cambam will do that
[01:12:58] <Simonious> Tom_itx: what's a good one?
[01:13:22] <jdh> cut3d
[01:13:27] <Simonious> sadly I'm new to cambam too. historical I've used sketchup and slic3r for my 3d printing stuff
[01:13:27] <jdh> non-free, and windows
[01:13:36] <Tom_itx> there are quite a few but out of the hobbist's pricerange
[01:13:57] <Simonious> ahh vectric, yeah, we've got some of their products here
[01:14:01] <Tom_itx> there are addons to solidworks for cam
[01:14:04] <Tom_itx> i use smartcam
[01:14:07] <Tom_itx> mastercam is good
[01:14:12] <Tom_itx> surfacecam is good
[01:14:17] <jdh> isn't there a free SW cam thing?
[01:14:18] <Tom_itx> many more...
[01:14:27] <Tom_itx> jdh, if you own sw
[01:14:32] <Tom_itx> so i hear
[01:14:38] * Simonious ponders
[01:14:44] <jdh> doesn't work with edu version?
[01:14:47] <Simonious> I've got SW, but.. our SW veteran uses an ad on
[01:14:53] <Tom_itx> jdh, i'm not sure
[01:15:15] * furrywolf needs cad+cam software
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[01:16:03] <Tom_itx> most here don't wanna use multi platform solutions... they're stuck on linux and it's tools
[01:16:25] <Tom_itx> the windows stuff is very good but very expensive
[01:16:37] <furrywolf> and involves using windows.
[01:16:40] <Tom_itx> if you're in the industry, it's just the cost of doing business
[01:16:59] <Tom_itx> i'm looking into CATIA right now
[01:17:09] <Tom_itx> it doesn't have cam though
[01:17:19] <Tom_itx> but all the plants around here use it
[01:18:42] * Simonious nods
[01:18:57] <Simonious> I'm asking in #solidworks, we'll see if they've got a nice path for generating gcode
[01:19:13] <Simonious> so far ... silence
[01:19:21] <Simonious> I'm taking that to mean they don't know. ;)
[01:19:45] <Tom_itx> there are savvy solidworks users here
[01:20:09] <Simonious> poke one, I need to know how to generate me some gcode
[01:20:41] <Simonious> and I accept that my toolchain may need work, that's part of the process.
[01:21:01] <Tom_itx> we generally encourage you do some homework first
[01:21:20] <Simonious> I wouldn't have made it this far if I hadn't
[01:21:28] <Tom_itx> and ask questions as they arise
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[01:27:12] <jdh> http://www.hsmworks.com/hsmxpress/
[01:30:57] <Simonious> jdh: know anything about it?
[01:31:05] <jdh> nope
[01:31:21] * Simonious ponders
[01:31:26] <Tom_itx> there are a couple that say they're free
[01:31:31] <jdh> that one is free
[01:31:46] <jdh> there are some youtube videos for it.
[01:31:51] <Simonious> but.. it's ONLY for solidworks
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[01:31:57] <Simonious> which isn't the end of the world, but is a bit sad
[01:32:59] <Simonious> also wth, it's made by autodesk
[01:33:06] <furrywolf> I still haven't found any working open-source cad or cam software.
[01:33:23] <jdh> furrywolf: vi
[01:34:06] <furrywolf> jdh: moded editors only marginally count as working. :)
[01:34:18] <Simonious> furrywolf: G-simple?
[01:34:37] <jdh> yeah, I'm really not much on vi*
[01:34:51] <jdh> I'm really an EDT fan
[01:34:53] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, you won't likely find any that's worth a crap
[01:34:56] <greg___> hsmxpress is good if you only need 2.5D
[01:35:10] <furrywolf> sadly, I do most of my editing in nano... it's not that nano is good, it's that everything else pisses me off more.
[01:35:11] <greg___> you have to pay for 3D
[01:35:12] <Simonious> greg___: what does that mean? I honestly don't know
[01:35:19] <greg___> it won't surface
[01:35:22] <Tom_itx> most of the free stuff won'd do surfaces
[01:35:32] <Simonious> greg___: bummer, that's specifically what I want
[01:35:32] <Tom_itx> 2d is relatively easy
[01:35:41] <Simonious> 2d I can do now
[01:35:44] <Simonious> I use cambam for that
[01:35:45] <greg___> what are you making>
[01:35:50] <Tom_itx> exactly.
[01:36:35] <greg___> I used meshcam years ago for artsy stuff. Back then it didn't really do machine parts well but i've heard it's improved.
[01:36:43] <Simonious> greg___: I'm 'learning' to make, my current learning project is a model I just made:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7eecu5lxizlaycm/damon%20name%20IV.STL?dl=0
[01:37:18] <greg___> then i bought Visual mill
[01:37:18] <furrywolf> Simonious: g-simple doesn't appear to be open-source.
[01:37:47] <furrywolf> Simonious: if you get really desparate, you can probably export it as a height map and use linuxcnc's image-to-gcode generator... but that's a crappy solution.
[01:38:10] <Simonious> furrywolf: Heeks is supposed to be open source..
[01:39:01] <furrywolf> isn't heeks windows? also, I haven't heard much good about it.
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[01:39:41] <Simonious> pycam?
[01:40:10] <furrywolf> hrmm, apparantly it does have a linux-compilable version.
[01:40:15] <furrywolf> pycam doesn't work.
[01:40:19] <furrywolf> tried that already.
[01:40:30] <Simonious> damn
[01:40:33] <Simonious> openscam?
[01:40:38] <greg___> camabam should do that part
[01:41:16] <furrywolf> never heard of openscam. I've used openscad, and it's a wonderful idea, but I couldn't make it stop crashing, nor could the developer even after we consulted on it for a couple weeks. heh.
[01:41:18] <Simonious> greg___: great! gonna try to find some youtube vids that explain how
[01:41:36] <Simonious> furrywolf: huh, I've used it, but very little, wasn't crashy for me though
[01:41:40] <jdh> is it a 3d part?
[01:41:53] <Simonious> djh yes
[01:42:00] <greg___> there is also somethign called freemill by mecsoft who does visualmill. it was very basic, but I think it did 3D
[01:42:26] <greg___> The part is lettering on a 3D surface
[01:42:35] <furrywolf> Simonious: it has opengl issues, as well as numerical issues. having two objects exactly touch will reliably cause a crash, for example. for the opengl issues, simple things like switching workspaces while it's thinking will cause it to crash.
[01:42:35] <Simonious> aye
[01:42:47] * Simonious nods
[01:43:11] <furrywolf> it doesn't seem to properly keep track of what parts of opengl are current and which aren't, so if anything changes during rendering, it crashes.
[01:43:11] <furrywolf> like a window redraw in the middle of a render.
[01:43:32] <furrywolf> and thinking is something it spends a very long time doing, especially if you have objects near touching. heh.
[01:43:33] <PetefromTn_> CamBam should be able to do that but I have not done a lot of 3D work with it yet really. there are several decent tutorials on youtube about the 3d functions....
[01:43:54] * Simonious nods
[01:44:25] <Simonious> so.. is cambam generally a pretty reasonable cam solution? I'm not opposed to spending some money, but I want to be confident it's a good choice before I go that route.
[01:44:29] <furrywolf> gah, openscam's website sucks. does not bode well for software. lol
[01:44:43] <greg___> how much does cambam cost these days?
[01:44:47] <Simonious> I heard a recommendation for cut3d, is that a good choice?
[01:45:00] <Simonious> greg___: ~$150 iirc
[01:45:02] <PetefromTn_> In my experience it will do most things but it is nowhere near as capable as something like Mastercam
[01:45:13] <jdh> how much is mastercam?
[01:45:24] <furrywolf> ok, I seriously need to fucking install noscript. openscam's page is pissing me off.
[01:45:29] <PetefromTn_> it has a lot of decent add ons tho you can get from the forums website
[01:45:51] <PetefromTn_> Mastercam is VERY expensive and pretty much a commercial only option
[01:45:55] <greg___> real CAM starts at 1kUSD and goes up to 25k or so for full house 5 axis
[01:46:51] <Tom_itx> umm
[01:46:55] <PetefromTn_> For the price it is hard to beat CamBam but there is the Fusion360 online option which seems pretty capable.
[01:47:05] <Tom_itx> my bud paid 75k for a seat of catia
[01:47:05] <PetefromTn_> 5 axis is WAY more than that really
[01:47:45] <Simonious> greg___: honestly I've only got 3axis machines at the moment, I'll probably graduate to 4 at some point.. but really that's still 3 axis, the 3rd spins..
[01:47:47] <furrywolf> "Limitations ... No CAM facilities yet, e.g. 3D model to tool path conversion." ... wtf? it's a cam program that doesn't do cam? lol
[01:48:00] <PetefromTn_> most of the big names are now moving to a cloud based setup that will allow you to pay as you go for a more reasonable entry fee
[01:48:10] <Simonious> SO many options
[01:48:19] <greg___> 4 axis is where you see the big jump. that starts at about 4kUSD
[01:48:25] * Simonious nods
[01:48:35] <greg___> and even then you have to look closely at what you're getting.
[01:48:38] <Simonious> I probably don't need true 4 axis cam
[01:48:44] <greg___> some are junk.
[01:48:47] <Simonious> even when I move to a rotary axis at some point
[01:48:55] <PetefromTn_> Well I finished the Tig welding and engraving jobs I had to do today so that is good at least...
[01:49:12] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: no, they're moving to a model where they can make it sound cheap up front then charge you subscription fees forever.
[01:49:20] <Simonious> My Tig work is also done for the day. :P
[01:49:21] <greg___> right you can do most things with an index on the rotary
[01:49:28] * Simonious nods
[01:50:17] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf Still honestly it has gone from a mostly prohibitive scheme to something that at least the smaller pro shops can get in on without massive up front costs..
[01:50:51] <greg___> pete furry, the Emco is a live, ran power out to the garage and the house didn't burn down. plugged the rewired machine in and it didn't melt down. I had a minor issure getting it running but it works now.
[01:50:55] <furrywolf> no, just massive total costs. :P
[01:51:29] * furrywolf doesn't believe in subscription model software
[01:51:36] <greg___> so cam soft is going to be like 1kUSD per YEAR
[01:52:03] <greg___> I spoke with HSM a few months back
[01:52:12] <Tom_itx> http://www.nccs.com/
[01:52:16] <Simonious> furrywolf: it's not a bad way to go - someone else ALWAYs troubleshoots the software and everyone uses the exact SAME software. It's the ultimate in outsourced tech support.
[01:52:18] <greg___> CAD is doing the same
[01:52:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.nccs.com/products/ncl.html
[01:52:57] <Tom_itx> multi axis
[01:53:50] <furrywolf> "cloud" software is even worse... let's make our product annoyingly slow by needing to send everything over the network for no reason and/or running non-native interpreted code on the client end!
[01:53:52] <greg___> if you spend real moeny on CAM software, demo it and be sure you like it
[01:55:02] <furrywolf> and let's have downtime due to network issues where the entire shop stops running and everyone can sit on their thumbs!
[01:55:26] <Simonious> greg___: I agree, but I need to get a feel for what I want to demo before I even do that.. there are so many options.. I need to weed it down to just a couple :)
[01:55:58] <Simonious> I was thinking cambam was a good option, cut3d sounds good too. Mastercam sounds good, but I think we're moving into expensive stuff there.
[01:56:27] <Simonious> I saw some encouraging things about pycam, but.. someone here said it didn't work
[01:56:47] <furrywolf> someone I know said their mastercam was around $50K/year/seat for their 5-axis machine.
[01:56:53] <greg___> for hobby grade there is dolphin cam, which I think is Sprut? but there are also farily resonably priced versions fo SprutCAM.
[01:57:01] * Simonious chuckles
[01:57:26] <greg___> Furrywolf, wouldbe be surprised. 5-axis makes good money
[01:57:31] <greg___> wouldn't
[01:58:03] <Simonious> 5-axis is non-trivial
[01:58:07] <Tom_itx> most everything can be made with 3 axis
[01:58:08] <furrywolf> Simonious: some people have said it works. I tried it. One of their toolpath algorithms ran in a few minutes, but produced a broken toolpath. The other said it needed THREE DAYS to create a toolpath for their trivial demo object. And, for those three days, since it ignores the config options for how many threads to use, it spawns so many threads that the system is entirely unusable.
[01:58:28] <Tom_itx> 5 axis may make it more efficient
[01:58:28] <furrywolf> I killed it after about a half hour, because I wanted to use my computer.
[01:58:46] <Simonious> furrywolf: this is why you need a slave linux box in the corner to toss ugly jobs
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[01:59:16] <Simonious> furrywolf: I've been known to reslice MANY objects at once with a script to try slightly different slicing settings on a bunch of parts.
[01:59:17] <greg___> I looked at several when i want to buy continuous 4 axis capable. I thought if i was going to buy real CAM I'd spend a few extra bucks and buy 4axis, but didn't end up buying anything because it was going to be 4-5kUSD.
[01:59:20] <furrywolf> Simonious: that's a waste of power, and a 3-day turnaround per prototype of a trivial object is not ok.
[01:59:27] <Simonious> furrywolf: true
[02:00:11] <furrywolf> When I mentioned my experience with pycam here, some people said that, if you do wait that absurd amount of time, it does generate a working toolpath.
[02:00:59] <Simonious> furrywolf: well I've got absurd amounts of computer power and a VM...
[02:01:00] <Tom_itx> greg___, i gave more than that over 20 yrs ago for a good 3 axis solution
[02:01:42] <furrywolf> Simonious: good for you. I don't have absurd abouts of computer power nor electrical power. nor any desire to wait three days between making chips!
[02:01:47] <furrywolf> s/abouts/amounts
[02:02:16] <greg___> i couldn't justify the cost for the amount of machining I do. i do more design work so have a seat os SW
[02:02:33] <Tom_itx> i wish i had a current SW version
[02:02:42] <Tom_itx> but what i have gets me by nowdays
[02:02:55] <greg___> I'm still on 2013
[02:03:02] <Tom_itx> used to do alot of aircraft parts
[02:03:24] <Tom_itx> so 3d is a requirement
[02:04:02] <furrywolf> I need to make a trivial part and still haven't found software to do it. heh.
[02:04:07] <Tom_itx> we had a guy back then that used acad with cam plugins
[02:04:18] <Tom_itx> he was good at it but it sure looked difficult
[02:04:24] <furrywolf> I need to cut five circles, five rectangles, and five letters out of a piece of aluminum sheet.
[02:04:30] <greg___> yeah, I learned SW98 at a small aero company
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[02:04:52] <greg___> scroll saw
[02:05:19] <cradek> scissors?
[02:05:47] <furrywolf> freecad kept screwing up, pycam didn't work, kcad or kicad or something couldn't do anything, etc.
[02:06:07] <greg___> Oh, i saw a CNC bandsaw making furniture on how irt's made and was mesmerized, don't know why, but it looks cool.
[02:06:17] <furrywolf> I'll probably end up writing the g-code by hand, even though I really wanted to use it as a trivial exercise to get cad+cam set up.
[02:07:16] <greg___> aren't there simple dxf to gcode apps? i used one when i first built my machine
[02:07:20] <furrywolf> []()X []()Y []()Z []()A []()B. five cutouts for square plugs, five for round plugs, and five axis labels. this should not be challenging...
[02:08:19] <Tom_itx> you want to engrave the letters or cut them thru?
[02:08:21] <cradek> yeah I'd just build that out of truetype-tracer and hand editing, which is no fun, and not a learning experience, but it gets it cut
[02:08:52] <greg___> http://www.dakeng.com/ace.html
[02:08:54] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: cut half through. (1/16 depth)
[02:09:17] <furrywolf> probably using the same endmill used for cutting out the holes.
[02:09:20] <greg___> my mill was his turbocnc before i found EMC2
[02:09:34] <zeeshan> long live linuxcnc
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[02:10:47] <furrywolf> then for the front panel, I'll probably just end up making that with a unibit. heh.
[02:10:56] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, i did that with my cadcam:
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant/pendant2.jpg
[02:10:58] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/NGhjaF1.jpg
[02:11:00] <zeeshan> todays action shot
[02:11:01] <zeeshan> :D
[02:11:26] * zeeshan likes that engraving
[02:11:42] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: and what is your cadcam?
[02:11:57] <Tom_itx> smartcam
[02:12:21] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: did you make your graphs line up yet?
[02:12:37] <Tom_itx> it's pretty dated now but it works good for me and the sherline
[02:13:00] <Tom_itx> it's got a lathe package as well
[02:13:32] <zeeshan> furrywolf: almost :-)
[02:13:36] <zeeshan> i know the problem
[02:13:46] <zeeshan> and im almost 99% positive its human error
[02:13:50] <zeeshan> will know later tonight
[02:13:56] <zeeshan> eatin now :P
[02:14:26] <zeeshan> i love the show cops
[02:14:30] <zeeshan> its so entertaining :D
[02:14:31] <furrywolf> looks epensive and windows.
[02:14:34] <furrywolf> expensive
[02:15:05] <greg___> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOcxwRUeh_4
[02:15:35] <greg___> looks like fun
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[02:18:50] <furrywolf> greg_: as someone who has a sherline, I can tell you that's not "mini" :P
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[02:22:28] <jfindley> greg_: That is awesome!
[02:23:08] <furrywolf> also, chatter!
[02:23:33] <greg_> if you can get it in the basement it's mini
[02:24:01] <greg_> proably as good as that pocket 5x machine
[02:26:58] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/KkcJUTj.jpg ;)
[02:28:26] <PetefromTn_> If I had one of those I would HAVE to machine a Death Star LOL
[02:29:28] <Simonious> cutting videos are a bit slow to watch so I: document.getElementsByTagName("video")[0].playbackRate = 5
[02:29:34] <Simonious> PetefromTn_: YES
[02:30:49] <Simonious> honestly that video is still watchable at 10x
[02:31:14] <PetefromTn_> Whever I see those tilting head machines I always think that a 4 plus 1 might be better for most things 5 axis..
[02:35:27] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP158y03VxQ Very nice clean up over here..
[02:38:39] <greg_> he did a good job, i followed his thread on PM
[02:38:55] <greg_> g'night gents
[02:39:56] <PetefromTn_> Gn8
[02:45:23] <Tom_itx> wore me out watching him
[02:45:40] <PetefromTn_> he did a nice job tho looks almost brand new
[02:45:50] <Tom_itx> looks like it
[02:46:09] <PetefromTn_> I can't imagine having a VMC without a full enclosure tho
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[02:46:18] <Tom_itx> yeah that would suck
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[02:47:15] <Tom_itx> especially if you plan to do flood coolant
[02:48:31] <furrywolf> the guy in the mini machine video greg pasted needs to work on his speeds and feeds.
[02:48:40] <furrywolf> that's painful to watch. and listen to.
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[02:48:57] <Tom_itx> was a neat machine though
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[02:54:13] <furrywolf> on that restoring video, that guy spent way too much work... I "restored" my shoptask by soaking it in wd40. a little rust never hurt anything. :P
[02:54:33] <furrywolf> and it doesn't need fresh paint if it has enough oil on it. :P
[02:55:03] <Tom_itx> to each his own
[02:55:12] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't go to that extreme either probably
[02:55:47] <archivist> silly limit to B rotation on that 5 axis
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[02:59:17] <furrywolf> also, his shop is way, way too clean.
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[03:02:03] <furrywolf> and he didn't even linuxcnc it! :P
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[03:07:04] <PetefromTn_> I like to try to make my machines look clean and professional whever possible but I have not gone stupid freak crazy on the VMC. Just cleaned it thoroughly enough to get it working and retrofit it.
[03:07:29] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: you mean you didn't strip every single bit of paint, including the hidden insides of covers? :)
[03:07:54] <PetefromTn_> My RF45 CNC machine I really spent some time on and even refinished the entire machine in a different color. As well as converting it to CNC and creating a custom Belt driven spindle, one of the first ever on an RF45
[03:08:11] <PetefromTn_> Honestly my machine did not require repainting anywhere.
[03:08:23] <PetefromTn_> It was just really dirty and covered in gunky residue
[03:08:32] <PetefromTn_> I spent a LOT of time just cleaning the damn thing
[03:08:45] <PetefromTn_> it actually looks pretty decent considering how old it is.
[03:08:52] <furrywolf> I care a lot more about functionality than looks... if it works, no reason to spend time working on it.
[03:09:00] <PetefromTn_> there are no major areas where it needs painting at all
[03:09:10] <archivist> there was no cleaning without the paint coming off my hobbing machine
[03:09:15] <PetefromTn_> Oh it works..now...at least everything but the toolchanger
[03:09:22] <furrywolf> I already have too many projects and not enough time... inventing new projects won't help that!
[03:10:14] <PetefromTn_> Well on a retrofit it does make things nicer to really clean it up because it makes mounting new parts easier when there is not tons of dried coolant and chips underneath ;)
[03:11:34] <archivist> I had about 3/4" of crap inside the coolant box, bottom layer of main casting
[03:12:01] <archivist> internal paint was ok ish and got left
[03:12:03] <PetefromTn_> it seemed like UNDERNEATH the table on my machine was the worst hardest part to clean
[03:12:18] <PetefromTn_> it had like glued on coolant and chips that was a real bitch to remove
[03:13:05] <furrywolf> yeah, before putting the new engine in my subaru, I took it on a trailer to the car wash and blasted all the old oil and grime off the frame...
[03:13:05] <PetefromTn_> I will say that the greased lightning in the dollar store bottles comes in REAL handy for this and cut thru even the thickest ooziest gunk pretty easily. Just don't smell it too much it is powerful stuff
[03:14:55] <PetefromTn_> I'll tell you what that sheet plate they gave me to make all those engraved pieces on was like trying to machine a gummy worm heh
[03:15:00] <archivist> wire brush, spread it around a bit
[03:16:24] <archivist> some of it was invisible until painted
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=barber+colman
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[03:20:24] <PetefromTn_> hey that looks pretty nice man...
[03:25:28] <archivist> the original black crackle finish was about the worst paint I have ever seen on a machine
[03:27:29] <PetefromTn_> heh I am sure
[03:28:21] <archivist> not only did it retain the crud, it was far too easy to wire brush off
[03:29:27] <PetefromTn_> I have been spraying my new CNC lathe project and it is kind of a bitch to mask off everything. After watching that guy basically roll on and brush on that Fadal I think I have found how to finish the rest of the tough parts now HEH
[03:31:29] <archivist> I am using discount store metal paint brushed on
[03:33:01] <Valen> I liked it, I'd so do that lol
[03:33:26] <Valen> I love things being all clean and shiny
[03:33:51] <PetefromTn_> yeah a Fadal is a sweet little machine much like my Cincinatti in a lot of ways.
[03:35:34] <archivist> the strip, clean and paint means you learn the guts of a machine too
[03:36:21] <PetefromTn_> there really is not that much to a VMC when it comes down to it... they are pretty simple machines
[03:36:26] <archivist> and find the seized parts before you break something
[03:46:35] <Valen> he did clear out all the grease lines too, there's a thread out there about a guy who thought it was all working but his really wasnt
[03:47:16] <Valen> he was not a happy camper
[03:48:36] <Valen> zeeshan sort out your encoder problem?
[03:48:56] <zeeshan> nope
[03:49:00] <zeeshan> waiting for a scope
[03:49:07] <zeeshan> friend is gonna let me borrow the analog tommo
[03:49:28] <Valen> got storage?
[03:49:36] <Valen> as in its a storage scope of some kind?
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[03:55:44] <furrywolf> I should fix my store 'scope one of these days... but I have a perfectly working digital one. heh.
[03:55:46] <furrywolf> storage
[03:57:02] <furrywolf> https://richardsears.wordpress.com/2012/01/18/tektronix-214-miniature-storage-oscilloscope/ I have one of those... it's cute... unfortunately it let the magic smoke out, then blew the battery fuse.
[03:57:38] <furrywolf> it's very hard to work on, since it can't operate disassembled.
[03:59:52] postaL is now known as postaL_offline
[04:00:16] <furrywolf> it's been sitting on top of one of my living room speakers for a few years now, in about twenty pieces.
[04:01:38] <furrywolf> and it's a pain in the ass to put together... contacts from the square cage of boards all nest, at once...
[04:01:56] <zeeshan> =
[04:01:58] <zeeshan> =]]
[04:02:07] <Valen> that sounds unfortunate
[04:02:30] <furrywolf> and it's double-sided through-hole, a rarity. lol
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[04:03:04] <furrywolf> they crammed a complete analog 'scope into a TINY box.
[04:03:40] <furrywolf> at least it's not cordwood!
[04:05:56] <furrywolf> (double-sided, as in, there's components on both sides of the pcb, through-hole from both sides, and solder pads on both sides of the pcb... not just that there's copper on both sides of the pcb)
[04:06:25] <Simonious> been studying cambam. Generated some toolpaths, they are wildly wrong, but I think I'll be able to get what I need out of it ... tomorrow. It's late now.
[04:09:21] <PetefromTn_> why are they wildly wrong?
[04:09:48] * Simonious chuckles, because xyz are apparently oriented differently in solidworks
[04:10:23] <furrywolf> lol
[04:10:46] <PetefromTn_> ?
[04:11:02] <PetefromTn_> You put XYZ wherever you want it really
[04:11:30] <Simonious> PetefromTn_: it generated tool paths from the side rather than the top face. Well I'm a cambam (and solidworks) novice and it defaulted off 90 degrees from the solidworks xyz
[04:11:59] <Simonious> I'm sure it'll be easy to fix, it's just getting late :)
[04:12:04] <PetefromTn_> aah
[04:12:14] <Simonious> My plan is to hit it with three tools, one for ROUGH out, one for refining and one for detail
[04:12:30] <Simonious> not sure how I'm going to keep the second two from doing EVERYTHING over again, but I know it's doable
[04:13:05] * Simonious wanders off to hit the shower, then a netflix perhaps, then bed.
[04:13:06] <Simonious> thanks guys
[04:13:08] <Simonious> o/
[04:13:19] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
http://i.imgur.com/uMoCajW.png
[04:13:21] <zeeshan> er
[04:13:27] <zeeshan> ignore that
[04:14:14] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/VpYNBYT.png
[04:14:15] <zeeshan> here we go
[04:14:23] <zeeshan> finally a more reasonable result
[04:14:32] <zeeshan> i figured out it was 2 things
[04:14:53] <zeeshan> 1. machine 1's load cell is way too oversized . it is a 10000N load cell but loads only hit a peak of 25N.
[04:15:16] <zeeshan> 2. I forgot to convert lb to newtons
[04:15:17] <zeeshan> :)
[04:15:45] <furrywolf> that would explain what it sure looked to me like just a scaling error. :P
[04:16:48] <zeeshan> yea definitely some scaling error
[04:16:52] <zeeshan> but the Green one you can tell
[04:16:55] <zeeshan> is messed up still
[04:17:09] <zeeshan> there is still a good 50% error
[04:17:36] <furrywolf> so you're finding machine1 and machine2 differ when testing the same material in the same axis?
[04:17:41] <zeeshan> yea
[04:17:43] <zeeshan> its a load cell issue
[04:18:07] <zeeshan> machine 1 is 10000N load cell, so if the load measured is 25N, thats in the error band of the load cell
[04:18:17] <furrywolf> lol
[04:18:28] <zeeshan> usually lab grade load cells are only reliable betwen 1% of their maximum value
[04:18:36] <zeeshan> machine 2 is 500N load cell
[04:18:49] <furrywolf> dunno, the curve looks really nice to me... even if it's not accurate, it is precise...
[04:19:01] <zeeshan> look at the red curve
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[04:19:14] <zeeshan> notice how it curves
[04:19:17] <zeeshan> but the green one curves twice
[04:19:19] <zeeshan> thats completely wrong
[04:19:42] <furrywolf> so just use machine2 for all your tests?
[04:19:51] <zeeshan> can't
[04:19:58] <furrywolf> or... build your own test machine? :P
[04:19:59] <zeeshan> luckily i dont have to do much uniaxial tests
[04:20:14] <zeeshan> the problem is machine 2 is in a completely differrent department (chem eng)
[04:20:18] <zeeshan> and they dont have optical strain measurement
[04:20:33] <zeeshan> im just gonna stick to my apparatus
[04:20:40] <zeeshan> this proves its working correctly
[04:20:49] <zeeshan> just gonna repeat 2 more tests on machine 2
[04:21:09] <furrywolf> use the air control system you already have, and just make two clamps, one fixed, one on an random air cylinder connected to your pressure system... and measure displacement vs pressure?
[04:21:46] <zeeshan> my apparatus has an inherent flaw in it
[04:21:53] <zeeshan> you can't accurately control "strain rate"
[04:21:58] <zeeshan> you can accurately control pressure
[04:22:09] <zeeshan> proper tensile test machines you can control strain rate
[04:22:24] <furrywolf> strain rate being the rate of movement rather than the rate of force?
[04:22:36] <zeeshan> if you plot strain vs time
[04:22:43] <zeeshan> its the slope of the curve
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[04:22:54] <zeeshan> rate of change of strain
[04:22:58] <furrywolf> as long as you can measure the displacement in real-time, you just need another PID loop.
[04:23:07] <zeeshan> yea that's the hard part :-)
[04:23:21] <zeeshan> i could prolly use some sort of laser measurement system
[04:23:29] <furrywolf> that varries your pressure as needed to maintain a constant change rate in the strain.
[04:23:36] <furrywolf> you have an accurate imaging system. :P
[04:23:45] <zeeshan> imaging system isn't realtime
[04:23:49] <zeeshan> it collects images real time
[04:23:52] <zeeshan> but doesn't process em real time
[04:24:06] <furrywolf> bah. that should be fixable with enough computing hardware.
[04:24:34] <furrywolf> all my stereo correlation projects took several minutes per image set, but they were on a p3... :P
[04:24:36] <zeeshan> i dont think i have a lot of time left to improve it
[04:24:42] <zeeshan> im gonna do it the hack way
[04:24:45] <zeeshan> i have strain vs time right
[04:24:49] <zeeshan> and i also have pressure vs time.
[04:24:57] <zeeshan> im gonna ramp down the pressure
[04:25:16] <zeeshan> to maintain the correct strain rate
[04:26:06] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/CM4DJDy.png
[04:26:08] <zeeshan> note the green line
[04:26:12] <furrywolf> (random note: stereo correlation of arbritary real-world image pairs is HARD!)
[04:26:15] <zeeshan> thats using a standard uniaxial tensile tester
[04:26:36] <zeeshan> "biaxial" is my apparatus
[04:26:44] <zeeshan> notice how it's linear in the beginning
[04:26:45] <zeeshan> but bam
[04:26:50] <zeeshan> it goes poop after
[04:27:17] <furrywolf> I assume the kink towards the end of the double layer test was one layer failing?
[04:27:32] <zeeshan> no
[04:27:40] <zeeshan> error in radius
[04:27:46] <zeeshan> wait
[04:27:49] <zeeshan> nm
[04:27:58] <zeeshan> thats the double layer, yea i think that was either the layer failing
[04:28:02] <zeeshan> or adhesive issue
[04:28:37] <zeeshan> since i know exactly what the strain was at the red blue black dots
[04:28:43] <furrywolf> plotting strain vs time isn't useful if you're applying force in different ways on different machines
[04:29:10] <zeeshan> strain vs time is extremely important
[04:29:15] <zeeshan> the faster your strain polymers
[04:29:19] <zeeshan> the different they react
[04:29:33] <zeeshan> and different machines is meaningless at the end of the day
[04:29:37] <furrywolf> yes, it is... but you can't put data from two machines using completely different testing methods on that same graph.
[04:29:40] <zeeshan> you compare things like "equivalent strain" and equivalent stress
[04:29:51] <zeeshan> it doesn't matter what the load is
[04:29:54] <furrywolf> for example, one machine could apply stress a lot slower than the other. :P
[04:30:13] <zeeshan> that's why you compare strain rate
[04:30:18] <zeeshan> to see if they were applying it linearly
[04:30:22] <zeeshan> and at the same rate
[04:30:31] <zeeshan> if that is constant between the two machines, you have the same conditions
[04:30:39] <zeeshan> but ofcourse one machine can be pulling the sample in 2 directions
[04:30:46] <zeeshan> and one can be pulling it in one direction
[04:30:56] <zeeshan> which is where "equivalent" strain comes into play
[04:31:19] <zeeshan> you basically transform the strain into a principal state that can be compared
[04:39:49] <zeeshan> the heck
[04:39:53] <zeeshan> its already 12:40 am
[04:40:08] <furrywolf> lol
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[04:52:24] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/MCkRDza.png
[04:52:32] <zeeshan> interesting way to look at the pressure vs strain vs time depedance
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[04:56:16] <furrywolf> insuffient references to determine the 3d shape.
[04:56:29] <zeeshan> ??
[04:56:59] <furrywolf> it's ambiguous. multiple different datasets would give that same graph.
[04:57:13] <furrywolf> it needs a projection onto each plane, or color-coding, or something.
[04:57:26] <zeeshan> looks good to me :-)
[04:57:39] <furrywolf> that's because you already know what the data is.
[04:58:49] <furrywolf> look at the first half of it... it could easily be a 45 degree line of pressure/time with strain=0... or strain/pressure with time=0...
[04:59:07] <zeeshan> :P
[04:59:15] <zeeshan> its for me to visualize it!
[04:59:26] <furrywolf> a standard solution is to graph little vertical lines down making its height at each spot obvious, as well as its projection.
[04:59:34] <zeeshan> my brain isn't working today
[04:59:36] * furrywolf googles for an example
[04:59:47] <zeeshan> i know what 3d pprojections look like
[04:59:52] <zeeshan> im not gonan waste time doing that on this graph
[04:59:57] <zeeshan> when it's for me to visualize!
[05:00:32] <zeeshan> man what am i doing.............................. grr
[05:00:37] <zeeshan> strain vs time is nonlinear
[05:00:41] <zeeshan> pressure vs time is linear
[05:00:47] <zeeshan> i want it to be the other waya round!
[05:02:13] <furrywolf> https://statmethods.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/3dscatter-ex2.jpeg like that
[05:02:34] <zeeshan> that looks messy in my opinion
[05:03:03] <furrywolf> but lets you, you know, actually get useful data from it... :P
[05:03:30] <zeeshan> http://www.doka.ch/3Dscatterplot.jpg
[05:03:32] <zeeshan> i like that
[05:03:39] <furrywolf> without some extra reference like that, you can't tell where a point is in 3d space from a 2d image.
[05:03:40] <zeeshan> http://www.originlab.com/doc%5Cen/Tutorial/images/3D_Scatter_with_Colormap/3D_Scatter_with_Colormap.png
[05:03:41] <zeeshan> better
[05:04:27] <furrywolf> yes, that's a projection onto each plane, one of the suggestions I gave. :P
[05:05:02] <furrywolf> and color coding, one of the other suggestions I gave... :P
[05:10:28] <furrywolf> http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh7mgvduYL1qa0uujo1_500.gif
[05:12:32] <zeeshan> lol
[05:19:27] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[05:19:31] <zeeshan> cya
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[11:14:40] <jthornton> morning
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[11:33:43] <Tom_itx> morning
[11:35:15] <Deejay> good afternoon ;)
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[11:37:29] <jthornton> dang bicycle ride will be wet this morning or muddy can't make up my mind
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[11:58:17] <Tom_itx> yeah, looks like rain here too
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[12:04:47] <Deejay> sunshine here, neighbour is harvesting rapeseed (?)
[12:12:13] <jthornton> just built my first QT program... dang a bit complicated compared to python
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[12:16:03] <MrSunshine> Deejay you called?
[12:16:32] <Deejay> lol, nope, at least it was not my intention to wake you up
[12:16:35] <Deejay> sorry ;)
[12:17:02] <MrSunshine> :P
[12:17:20] <MrSunshine> i thought you wanted me to rape your neighbours
[12:18:25] <Deejay> lol
[12:18:28] <MrSunshine> gah trying to sand away small ridges from the tool on a 3d routing ...
[12:18:37] <MrSunshine> frekkin hell on earth
[12:21:16] <JT-Shop> it's freaking muggy outside
[12:22:13] <MrSunshine> hate it when that happends ... frekin muggers jumping out from everywhere
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[12:30:16] <JT-Shop> it cracks me up when customers toss out that they are going on a trip can you get this to me before I leave
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[13:08:04] <Simonious> know anything about flatcam?
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[13:49:18] <_methods> never even heard of it
[13:53:10] <archivist> I think its a chalk mark on the metal
[13:53:18] * archivist ducks
[13:55:03] <_methods> no that's mancam
[13:55:32] <_methods> or nocam lol
[13:56:17] <archivist> insiderearofskullcam is the upgraded version for 2015
[13:56:25] <CaptHindsight> http://flatcam.org/ Free and Open-source PCB CAM
[13:57:17] <_methods> i'd settle for pcb software that would spit out a clean dxf
[13:57:29] <_methods> i don't need it to do any cam for me thank you
[13:58:44] <CaptHindsight> _methods: just mention that in reprap or similar, you'll get several devs telling how to do that without even using a PC
[13:59:24] <archivist> I avoid repcrap channels :)
[13:59:32] <_methods> i've yet to find a pcb program that will spit out a clean dxf
[14:00:08] <_methods> a lot of them will make a dxf where they use diff line thicknesses to represent traces
[14:00:13] <archivist> since moving to PC design of pcbs never made one myself
[14:00:20] <_methods> which is basically useless for milling
[14:00:49] <_methods> it just looks like the correct size trace lol
[14:00:53] <archivist> a gerber is a line and thickness too
[14:01:20] <archivist> up to the mill program to know that
[14:01:43] <_methods> yeah there are programs that do it
[14:01:51] <_methods> and they "work" more or less
[14:02:13] <_methods> i would just rather have a dxf and use my own cam software to do it
[14:03:17] <CaptHindsight> "I can do that with with <100 lines of code on a scavenged toasted oven micro" :)
[14:03:23] <_methods> heheh
[14:04:00] <archivist> when the new stuff is so cheap why do they bother scavenging
[14:04:28] <_methods> well because you can has always been a good excuse for me lol
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[14:04:43] <_methods> sometimes it's fun to make do with some junk
[14:05:00] <CaptHindsight> also their time seems to be practically worthless
[14:05:03] <archivist> my last probe part I ordered just got here from china under £4
[14:05:25] <CaptHindsight> weeks of coding time are worth saving $100
[14:06:43] <archivist> I like scavenging and reusing but only for proper stuff
[14:07:00] <_methods> zlog
[14:07:00] <zlog> _methods: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2015-07-23.html
[14:08:08] <CaptHindsight> that's the main reason I hear for reinventing Linuxcnc
[14:08:40] <_methods> because i can?
[14:08:41] <archivist> now I have to decide what to transmit from the probe to pc, force on the probe, or just, it has enough force
[14:08:46] <CaptHindsight> the hardware costs too much and Linuxcnc is too complicated
[14:08:50] <_methods> oh
[14:08:55] <_methods> well that's good i like filters
[14:09:01] <_methods> keeps the riff raff out
[14:10:52] <archivist> also need to think about the press tool for the spring, need a "certain" pressure to the clamp
[14:11:24] <_methods> some things aren't "easy"
[14:12:34] <archivist> I get a wrinkle like
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_10_11_Smart_Brown_Press_repaired/IMG_1671.JPG
[14:13:03] <_methods> ahh around the eges
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[14:13:05] <_methods> edges
[14:13:06] <archivist> but that wrinkle is outside in the dont care region
[14:13:19] <_methods> i believe that is normal and is typically cut away in a second op
[14:13:30] <_methods> so you would design your blank to account for that
[14:13:43] <archivist> I need it flat as I wand to clamp it there
[14:13:44] <_methods> man i want that press so bad
[14:14:02] <_methods> there's an auction next month not far from here and the have a small obi press i'm going to try and get
[14:14:08] * archivist adds extra locks to the garage
[14:14:12] <_methods> hahah
[14:14:29] <_methods> that press is awesome
[14:14:49] <archivist> something of a fetish for presses
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=press+pd
[14:15:48] <archivist> from 8213 on on that page are all here :)
[14:15:50] <_methods> do you own all of those smaller ones?
[14:15:55] <_methods> kk
[14:15:55] <archivist> yup
[14:16:09] <_methods> man nice
[14:16:26] <archivist> never found out what the swiss one was for
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[14:16:34] <_methods> i think those unknown lever presses are old unipunches
[14:17:51] <archivist> unipunches look more solid after a quick google
[14:17:55] <_methods> yeah
[14:18:04] <_methods> if it is they are very old unipunches
[14:21:14] <archivist> there may be some english maker that its from
[14:21:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KENCO-PUNCH-PRESS-4-Ton-/271924911674 the one to the right of this looks similar to the ^^^
[14:23:26] <CaptHindsight> archivist: how is yours driven?
[14:23:42] <CaptHindsight> have a side view?
[14:24:23] <archivist> that press in my pics I never brought home so not mine
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[14:24:47] <archivist> impossible to take a side pic where it was
[14:25:14] <CaptHindsight> just wondering
[14:26:06] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toggle-Press-Smart-Brown-H5-2-Tons-Capacity-Nice-Condition-75-00-vat-/252023298483
[14:27:16] <archivist> the smart and brown came in a number of sizes
[14:27:42] <archivist> mine is the little H3
[14:28:17] <archivist> side view
http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=9283&subject=26617
[14:28:53] <CaptHindsight> lever operated
[14:29:15] <MrFluffy> Cute little thing...
[14:29:40] <archivist> I think some used a pneumatic cylinder off that lever
[14:30:31] <archivist> I need to make the proper lever like
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smart-Brown-Toggle-Press-Adjustable-Stroke-/221802750843
[14:31:00] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMART-BROWN-TOGGLE-PRESS-MODEL-H5-BENCH-TOP-MANUAL-MADE-IN-ENGLAND-/350908788762
[14:31:05] <_methods> one in canada
[14:31:27] <archivist> a bit pricey
[14:31:58] <CaptHindsight> imported from England
[14:32:06] <_methods> yeah i'm gonna try and pick up this little obi next month
[14:32:14] <_methods> hopefully i can get it for nothing
[14:32:19] <_methods> no one wants presses anymore
[14:32:37] <archivist> I think mine was about £30
[14:32:51] <_methods> yeah that's a great deal
[14:32:56] <_methods> i'll give you 40
[14:32:59] <_methods> lol
[14:33:06] <archivist> erm /me says NO
[14:33:12] <_methods> you gotta pay shipping though
[14:33:18] <_methods> hehe
[14:33:48] <MrFluffy> I want a new press, but it should need a hiab to move at minimum :)
[14:35:15] <archivist> just checking my email and some presses in the latest spam from www.apexauctions.co.uk
[14:35:33] <MrFluffy> I have one of those little 30t ones and its flexing with some of the crank work
[14:35:42] <_methods> there are like 20 or so presses at this auction i'm going to
[14:35:49] <_methods> but they're all monster
[14:35:53] <archivist> hiab wont lift
https://www.apexauctions.co.uk/auction/itemDetails?lotId=168225&utm_source=Mailchimp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Renold_Power
[14:36:26] <MrFluffy> that'd do me, except the transport over the channel would be 1200e min
[14:37:00] <archivist> I know a lorry driver
[14:37:23] <MrFluffy> its something like 600e for the crossing at the moment
[14:37:47] <MrFluffy> cheapest way is backload on a low loader from barringtons or denbigh freight or something
[14:38:00] <MrFluffy> denbigh will bring two 7t jcb's for 1200e...
[14:38:11] <_methods> http://www.biditup.com/auction/953/ASSETS+FORMERLY+OF+EMR+INC+COMPLETE+STAMPING+TOOL+ROOM+FACILITY
[14:38:22] <_methods> that's the auction i'm hittin
[14:38:39] <_methods> http://www.biditup.com/auction-photo.php?id=54674
[14:38:45] * MrFluffy not allowed to go to auctions with the credit card after some unfortunate incidents
[14:38:48] <_methods> that's that little press i'm tryin to get
[14:39:15] <MrFluffy> theres somethign similar but older on ebay at the moment
[14:39:21] <MrFluffy> I assume youve seen it and its too dear...
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[14:41:02] <MrFluffy> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-W-Bliss-size-20-press-/161768919698?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item25aa2dd292
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[14:41:17] <MrFluffy> thats not a bad price yet is it?
[14:41:43] <MrFluffy> Id go rehome it if it was here...
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[14:47:05] * MrFluffy snaps himself out of looking at presses big enough to accomodate a car on the local free ads pages...
[14:47:14] <_methods> heheh
[14:48:51] <archivist> I should be looking for a car rather than toys
[14:50:06] <MrFluffy> I have to dispose of two, maybe it could be a investment for a large press
[14:51:25] <MrFluffy> somehow I cant see much of a market for a rotten mk3 transit lowline, and a rather defunct pajero swb
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[14:51:52] <MrFluffy> Maybe I can use the pajero chassis to build something useful instead.
[14:52:39] <archivist> mondeo estate deseasal is all I need
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[14:53:06] <MrFluffy> or petrol and lpg, I ran a mondeo estate lpg for years
[14:53:54] <MrFluffy> donut tank in the wheel well, it popped the head gasket at 160,000 and I swapped the engine out as a precaution, and when we stripped it, the insides were like new because it had ran on lpg its whole life
[14:55:10] <archivist> I dont trust the availability of lpg all over the place
[14:55:25] <MrFluffy> then you can run on plain petrol :)
[14:56:14] <archivist> I want the extra mpg of diesel
[14:56:37] <MrFluffy> is diesel still loads more expensive than petrol there though?
[14:56:48] <MrFluffy> you get lower mpg on lpg than petrol too... less calorific value
[14:56:49] <robinsz> im not sure diesel is any better these days
[14:57:12] <robinsz> but when you factor in that diesel costs more ...
[14:57:28] <Simonious> in CamBAM, is there a way just to key the # of degrees you wish a part to rotate?
[14:58:17] <robinsz> im not sure which costs less to tun anymore in diesel and modern petrol, I suspect it is very close
[14:58:52] <MrFluffy> we replaced it with a td galaxy, but it sort of balances out, Id rather have the mondey back personally
[14:58:54] <greg_> diseasel, lol is that from memory or do youhave younger children?
[14:59:00] <_methods> no idea i think petefromtn is the local cambam guru
[14:59:28] <MrFluffy> but both are the wife's car technically, so I dont get to choose
[15:01:03] <Simonious> I should really be able to 10key the # of degrees of rotation :/ seems I only get mouse drag options so even getting a 90 degree rotation is a bitch (with snap to grid turned on).
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[15:03:51] <greg_> I scanned the manual quickly, in transform you have rotate
[15:04:06] <Simonious> yeah.. i can spin the part, but the snap to grid doesn't seem to work
[15:04:14] <Simonious> so i can't lock in on 90 degrees
[15:05:16] <greg_> yeah it goes on the say it's mostly useless
[15:05:20] <Simonious> if I could just 10 key in the angle and hit enter.. that would be awesome
[15:05:48] <greg_> make another coordinate system in SW and eport it using that
[15:05:53] <MrFluffy> can you rotate the original in cad then re-process it?
[15:05:54] <Simonious> greg_: yeah.. totally useless, it's like a canteen with no water in it. It offers the promise of what you want, but doesn't deliver.
[15:05:55] <greg_> export
[15:06:05] <Simonious> greg_: yeah, that's what I'm going to have to do.
[15:06:30] <greg_> This is the 5 axis video I was trying to find yesterday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-lx6zkYxFQ
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[15:10:23] <HoloPed> Hey all. Is anyone familiar with FSL laser cutters? I have a problem and FSL won'
[15:10:25] <HoloPed> t help
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[15:12:25] <HoloPed> I have a problem with a FullSpectrumLaser unit. During raster engraving the laser stops and the driver goes crazy and the mouse starts jumping all over the screen. It stops when I disconnect the laser. FullSpectrumLaser don't answer emails and won't approve my post on their forums.
[15:12:49] <cpresser> HoloPed: just ask your question. the worst that can happen is that no one answers
[15:13:27] <HoloPed> thanks cpresser , just did
[15:14:09] <cradek> sounds like some kind of interference
[15:14:20] <cradek> did you check wiring/grounding/shielding?
[15:15:17] <archivist> a scope and a length of wire may pick it up
[15:16:06] <HoloPed> what should I be looking for ?
[15:16:10] <HoloPed> unsheilded wires ?
[15:16:49] <cradek> did it previously work?
[15:17:01] <archivist> breaks in shields too, the sort of failure you would get on a flexible cable to the head
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[15:17:40] <HoloPed> cradek, we just got it (our makerspace) so I don't know if this is a new issue, or has always been there. The owner didn't use it much
[15:17:49] <cradek> ah
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[15:18:11] <cradek> so you may have the bits together wrong, or missing bits, or who knows what
[15:18:29] <HoloPed> on the other hand, Laser cutting (not raster) seems to work ok
[15:18:33] <cradek> we assumed broken bits because we assumed it worked previously
[15:18:34] <HoloPed> even with long runs
[15:18:40] <archivist> cables are a comon problem where movement occurs
[15:18:56] <HoloPed> the laser doens't move
[15:19:02] <HoloPed> mirrors move
[15:19:22] <HoloPed> no cables on the moving parts, except one stepper motor
[15:19:43] <cradek> I don't think you're going to get useful help anywhere except from someone at the machine troubleshooting it
[15:20:10] <archivist> stepper motor cable fault can produce huge electrical noise, enough to kill a driver
[15:20:18] <HoloPed> ok
[15:20:22] <HoloPed> I will check all wires
[15:20:24] <HoloPed> thanks guys
[15:20:32] <cradek> while it's working, poke at everything
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[15:20:45] <HoloPed> with my tongue
[15:20:45] <skunkworks_> and remember it is high voltage....
[15:20:46] <cradek> seems like something is mechanically different when doing raster
[15:21:00] <HoloPed> cradek, it is different
[15:21:06] <cradek> ?
[15:21:09] <HoloPed> it scans back and forth, like a fax machine
[15:21:19] <HoloPed> with the laser going on/off very quickly
[15:21:48] <cradek> the on/off could sure make some kinds of interference
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[15:29:46] <pcw_home> yeah the modulation of the HV could certainly cause a HF noise issue (maybe some corona somewhere)
[15:30:33] <skunkworks_> whoo hoo - shipping confermation from mesa!
[15:30:37] <CaptHindsight> beer? :)
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[15:34:49] <Simonious> how well does CamBAM's height map generator work?
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[16:16:36] <Simonious> Hmm.. I was able to generate tool paths once in cambam, but I'm not sure why I can't get it to go now.
[16:17:07] <Simonious> I need to find a cambam expert to screenshare with, or to set up some paths for me, so I can look at what they did.
[16:18:35] <MrSunshine> conventional cutting must be better when cutting perpendicular to the grain in wood right ?
[16:18:41] <MrSunshine> and climb when cutting with the grain ?
[16:20:25] <andypugh> Simonious: I have CamBam, but not with me now in this hotel room
[16:21:38] <Simonious> PM andypugh
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[21:09:30] <jdh> idle much?
[21:09:45] <PetefromTn_> vroom Vroom
[21:10:38] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:20:59] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf
https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5136100412.html !!
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[22:05:01] <Valen> oooh
http://imgur.com/gallery/r0k9hdN
[22:06:08] <Tom_itx> that's different than the ones used here
[22:07:58] <Tom_itx> http://pop.h-cdn.co/assets/cm/15/05/54c7ff43b5c02_-_3-31.jpg
[22:08:57] <Tom_itx> http://www.northlandchippers.com/stump/images/bandit-2800XP-stump-grinder.jpg
[22:09:06] <Tom_itx> better pic
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[22:18:00] <JT-Shop> my stump machine
http://gnipsel.com/images/splitter/splitter-28.jpg
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[22:43:53] <Valen> I imagine that one would be pretty quiet though
[22:44:08] <Valen> I just love the torque it must be applying
[22:45:03] <malcom2073> It looks like it's hammering
[22:46:32] <Tom_itx> just catching on the stump i think
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[22:55:01] <PetefromTn_> That thing looks pretty impressive... I honestly don't see how it is any better than the large circular saw style... And it seems like it takes a MUCH larger and heavier machine to control that impressive torque
[22:57:51] <PetefromTn_> So today I spent some more time painting on the CNC lathe carcass... This time I took a page from that FADAL video that I posted yesterday and used one of those small rollers and a brush for the very tight areas. This seems to work quite well and I was able to get a lot more of the machine in primer. Tomorrow I will be doing the other side of the carcass and hopefully get it completely in primer.
[22:58:23] <PetefromTn_> Then I can paint this thing the final color and as in the video will have to move the carriage to get underneath the area that is currently covered.
[22:58:48] <PetefromTn_> Did not want to completely tear apart the machine just to paint the body perhaps I am lazy for that but it should work fine.
[22:59:12] <PetefromTn_> Once I finally get this thing painted then I can start putting it back together and mounting components.
[22:59:19] <PetefromTn_> Still lots of work to do...
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[23:09:53] <jdh> can't tape it up and spray it?
[23:10:30] <PetefromTn_> jdh Honestly I would LOVE to just tape it up and spray it but there are so many nooks and crannies that is not really possible
[23:10:56] <PetefromTn_> also there is the fact that when you spray this kind of machine the overspray will find its way into basically everything
[23:11:39] <PetefromTn_> I USUALLY spray everything I paint as I have been using PRo spray guns for decades now so believe me I would rather spray it.....this is just an easier way to get into these cracks...
[23:12:14] <Valen> roller will probably give you a better texture anyway
[23:12:45] <PetefromTn_> I am using those small detail rollers and yeah I was kinda surprised at the finish it does not look too bad really...
[23:13:10] <PetefromTn_> The larger sheet metal pieces I am spraying tho because it is just easier to take them off...
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[23:26:55] <furrywolf> last time I had to remove stumps, I dug and sawed all the outside roots, then yanked the stump with my truck, breaking the underside roots.
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[23:28:09] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: heh, that shoptask isn't identical to mine, but very similar.
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[23:29:10] <PetefromTn_> yeah man I thought you would like that photo..
[23:30:00] <PetefromTn_> I must say that while it is not the best machine I ever had I did enjoy having mine years ago.. If I knew what I know now about CNC I would probably have enjoyed it a lot more. Would make a kickass little gang tooled CNC lathe at least...
[23:30:23] <furrywolf> roots are surprisingly tough. I had to use two heavy-duty slings for extra length so I could get enough momentum up to snap the bigger roots under the stumps...
[23:30:55] <furrywolf> and that's with a 6500lb truck and 1500lbs of crap in the bed.
[23:31:52] <furrywolf> also, don't use a chainsaw to cut roots. even when you think you have all the dirt clear, you don't, and you trash both your chain and your bar instantly.
[23:32:04] <PetefromTn_> some tree trunks are really too big to pull out with anything but a large piece of heavy equipment..most of the time it is easiest to just cut away most of it with one of these machines and then spray root eating compounds on what remains underground.
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[23:32:19] <furrywolf> I found some 14" "pruning" blades for my sawzall that worked excellently. slowly, but execellently.
[23:32:47] <PetefromTn_> Yup I use my sawzall for a lot of stuff like that..
[23:33:02] <furrywolf> never underestimate the power of momentum. :)
[23:33:20] <furrywolf> 8000lbs going 20mph has a lot of stored energy.
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[23:34:06] <PetefromTn_> we used my daughter's F350 Diesel Dually 4x4 to rip the old shrubs out of the front of our house recently and a snatch strap worked quite well for that.
[23:34:46] <furrywolf> probably similar to my truck in terms of weight and axles... you have more horsepower, though.
[23:34:54] <jdh> I thought your kids were like 10
[23:34:56] <PetefromTn_> I was quite stunned at the extent of the roots system on those damn things. I cut one or two out myself with the sawzall and a matticks
[23:35:16] <PetefromTn_> I have two stepkids both of whom are adults now...
[23:35:22] <furrywolf> my truck is labeled at 1.5ton, but has a dana 70 rear dana 60 front, which is very similar to the 10.25/10.5 sterling rear and dana 60 front ford uses.
[23:35:34] <PetefromTn_> My son is finishing basic training for the US Navy soon..
[23:35:53] <jdh> I have some weed shrubs I cut/pull/dig up every other year
[23:36:05] <jdh> damned things will not die
[23:36:08] <PetefromTn_> He has been attached to the USS George H W Bush Aircraft Carrier...
[23:36:48] <furrywolf> jdh: try killing himilayan blackberries if you want plants that won't die.
[23:37:08] <jdh> I slept on a carrier once. Id probably die after 2 nights
[23:37:11] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf Yeah I would say that is accurate.. the sterling axles are quite heavy and similar in most respects to those in your truck
[23:37:47] <PetefromTn_> really then you would have HATED living on board the US Coast Guard Cutter Steadfast I was stationed on LOL
[23:38:05] * furrywolf doesn't like boats, planes, or other moving things
[23:38:29] * PetefromTn_ thinks furrywolf doesn't like ANYTHING...
[23:38:40] <jdh> they are all good if you leave them before sleeping
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[23:38:58] <PetefromTn_> I actually slept quite well in my rack on the cutter..
[23:39:07] <PetefromTn_> unless it was REALLY rough
[23:39:11] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: but that would mean I like not liking things.
[23:39:22] <PetefromTn_> then we would have to strap ourselves into our racks
[23:39:27] <PetefromTn_> that is not so much fun
[23:39:59] <furrywolf> I get seasick/airsick/carsick pretty easily.
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[23:40:06] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf I would say that is a MOST precise statement
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[23:40:18] <PetefromTn_> I kinda laugh about that now..
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[23:40:29] <PetefromTn_> I remember a time when I used to think only SOME people get seasick
[23:40:46] <PetefromTn_> then I spent two and a half years aboard that coast guard cutter in the carribbean
[23:41:32] <PetefromTn_> and watched SEASONED Chiefs vomiting over the side that have more time on the crapper than I have aboard ship and realized that EVERYONE gets seasick in the bad stuff
[23:41:34] <DaViruz> i've never felt even the slightest tendency toward sea sickness. i'd like to think i'm immune
[23:41:45] <DaViruz> but maybe i just haven't been in seas rough enough
[23:42:31] <furrywolf> for me it tends to be steady medium-sized rocking, not violent seas...
[23:42:45] <PetefromTn_> I remember being on the bridge and watching waves crash over the bridge wings decks which are over 30 feet above the water line easily
[23:42:50] <furrywolf> the constant movement is much worse than a period of large jolts
[23:43:51] <PetefromTn_> you honestly get used to kind of bouncing off the walls when you walk down a hallway it makes it easier to handle the movement
[23:44:44] <PetefromTn_> and you learn to eat certain things that help you to not feel the movement of the water so much but at the end of the day if it gets real bad there is nothing you can do but try to deal with it.
[23:45:06] <PetefromTn_> Usually after I threw up I felt a lot better and honestly fighting it was not really helping.
[23:45:20] <PetefromTn_> we did have a seaman get stationed aboard one time.
[23:45:24] <PetefromTn_> he was a REALLY cool guy
[23:45:31] <PetefromTn_> and was very excited to be aboard
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[23:45:55] <PetefromTn_> he was great the whole time we were in port painting and preparing the ship for our next tour
[23:46:05] <PetefromTn_> then the DAY we got underway
[23:46:20] <PetefromTn_> he was on the forecastle when we started pulling lines in
[23:46:28] <PetefromTn_> and I could see he started to turn green
[23:46:48] <PetefromTn_> they kept him on board for three weeks and he NEVER got better no matter what they gave him
[23:47:09] <PetefromTn_> He was finally discharged from the ship and I think they gave him a land station job or something.
[23:47:29] <PetefromTn_> I remember the day they flew him off the ship in the HH60J
[23:48:38] <furrywolf> yeah, I was on a boat once, just a sightseeing tour, with a woman who had to dope herself up with so many pills she couldn't walk, and was still seasick. heh.
[23:49:00] <furrywolf> and patches, too
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