#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-07

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[01:12:34] <jfindley> Hello
[01:12:53] <andypugh> Hi
[01:13:49] <andypugh> Do you have a question, or just being sociable?
[01:14:03] <jfindley> I've got lots of questions =)
[01:14:22] <andypugh> We have lots of answers. Some accurate.
[01:15:56] <jfindley> So I'm trying to see if I can get into a CNC mill suitable for etching printed cricuit boards for less than $5000. Figured since I'll be doing all of my work in Arch, this may be a good place to ask for guidance.
[01:16:02] <XXCoder> hey
[01:17:20] <andypugh> Well, you can definitely do it for less than $5000
[01:17:22] <jdh> yes.
[01:17:27] <XXCoder> jfindley: strightforward is just buy chinese cnc engrave machine
[01:17:29] <XXCoder> few k
[01:17:57] <XXCoder> not too sure on resolution but im sure its suffecent for normal circuits
[01:18:00] <andypugh> But I question whether it is worth it when PCBs cost about $1 each from China and take about 10 days to arrive, with resist, plating, screen print etc.
[01:18:15] <jfindley> I'm very much new to CNC stuff, but I got a delta 3d printer a while back and have had a blast with it. I supposed I could use it for PCB etching, but I want to keep using it for printing
[01:18:50] <jfindley> andypugh: I'm an idiot up until the point I stop being one... Trial and error has gotten me to where I am today, and probably will continue to do so.
[01:18:53] <andypugh> You can 3D-print resits onto copper board and etch traditionally.
[01:19:16] <andypugh> (resist)
[01:20:08] <jfindley> I already etch PCBs using the methods described by http://www.pulsarprofx.com/ but it takes a good few hours to make one board, and with my cheap chinese drill press, I have a larger than i'd like failure rate.
[01:20:33] <Rab> You can buy an LPKF off eBay for well under $5K.
[01:20:33] <jfindley> plus the chemicals are just nasty...
[01:20:34] <Tom_itx> so do SMT then
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[01:21:21] <andypugh> One of these, but using LinuxCNC, might do all you want. http://www.ebay.com/itm/3020-DESKTOP-3-AXIS-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVING-DRILLING-MILLING-ENGRAVER-MACHINE-NEW-/200721798773?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebbf39675
[01:21:45] <XXCoder> just $500 yeah
[01:21:51] <andypugh> (just a random example, not a recommendation)
[01:21:52] <furrywolf> yay, rebuilt eu3000is seems to work.
[01:21:54] <XXCoder> small but circuits usually isnt that big
[01:22:16] <furrywolf> how should I break it in? my first guess is to randomly apply loads between idle and full throttle, changing every few minutes.
[01:22:22] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: :)
[01:22:46] <SpeedEvil> Rebuilt the head?
[01:22:47] <XXCoder> furrywolf: if I recall from cars, its better to avoid hard accerations while breaking in
[01:23:05] <andypugh> Right, I need to sleep. It has been a trying evening.
[01:23:19] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: night
[01:23:30] <andypugh> I am likely to fall asleep dreaming of hitting UEFI motherboards with axes.
[01:23:49] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: brand new head (and all components contained within), honed cylinder, new rings, new head gasket, new head bolts, cleaned carb, muffler off a different unit, and lots of little things.
[01:23:55] <furrywolf> andypugh: shotguns work well too
[01:24:01] <furrywolf> hrmm, brb, it just unloaded.
[01:24:06] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I'd guess light load for a bit
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[01:25:32] <furrywolf> apparantly the heater I was using as a test load has a bad thermostat.
[01:25:50] <furrywolf> since it's declaring sitting in the foggy outside ambient temperature to be above its maximum.
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[01:27:18] <furrywolf> I got it for $1 at a yard sale. I might just jumper the thermostat.
[01:28:01] * SpeedEvil puts on 'Disco inferno'
[01:28:01] <furrywolf> at near full load it's smoking a bit, but I think it's just burning old oil out of the exhaust, as it lags behind the load... that is, it starts smoking a bit after the load is applied, and stops a bit after the load is removed.
[01:28:58] <furrywolf> it sounds pretty healthy. the choke linkage rattles, might fix it with an o-ring between the moving parts to keep them from rattling.
[01:29:10] <SpeedEvil> :)
[01:29:26] <XXCoder> nice
[01:30:02] <furrywolf> the first time I started it, it started revving high and belching black smoke... took me a couple seconds to realize I'd forgotten one of the carb stepper cables. d'oh.
[01:33:24] <furrywolf> also, I have two nuts left over.
[01:33:37] <furrywolf> I _think_ they went with the front rubber feet, but I'm not positive.
[01:33:42] <furrywolf> I hate when that happens. :)
[01:34:14] <furrywolf> that's about the only place this size nut is used, and I switched the feet around at some point.
[01:37:19] * SpeedEvil imagines the head suddenly pinging through the ceiling.
[01:38:06] <SpeedEvil> Left over nuts are annoying.
[01:41:26] <XXCoder> hey spare parts lol jk
[01:48:48] <archivist> Valen, whatever makes the clock keep time
[01:49:14] <os1r1s> jfindley: I have a little mill that I use for milling PCBs. It works great!
[01:49:26] <os1r1s> If you have any specific questions
[01:49:41] <XXCoder> os1r1s: which mill
[01:50:01] <XXCoder> not planning on circuits just curious.
[01:50:26] <os1r1s> XXCoder: I use one called a widgitmaster mini
[01:50:51] <os1r1s> XXCoder: http://mounicou.com/wm/pcbmill2.jpg
[01:51:00] <os1r1s> Thats an old pic of the mill
[01:51:03] <archivist> Valen, sometimes it was an odd number just to make the pendulum short enough to fit a case
[01:51:06] <XXCoder> almost spelled widget master mini lol
[01:51:36] <os1r1s> XXCoder: The size is perfect, which is why I wanted it
[01:51:45] <jfindley> os1r1s: That looks perfect!
[01:51:46] <Valen> archivist I was hoping to use app in the phone to get it close without days of mucking about ;->
[01:51:53] <XXCoder> its niely sizefd for circuit
[01:52:27] <os1r1s> Yeah, and its high quality. The guy who sold them took great care in machining them.
[01:52:44] <os1r1s> jfindley: I put a wolfgang spindle on it and it rips through PCBs
[01:53:00] <XXCoder> os1r1s: weird! I clicked to see pricing info and it says page not found
[01:53:22] <archivist> Valen, once upon a time some clock timers came with a table of numbers for popular models.... and a formula so you can work it out
[01:53:25] <os1r1s> jfindley: A shitty example cut from a while ago ... http://mounicou.com/i2cpcb/i2cpcb3lgt.jpg
[01:53:50] <os1r1s> XXCoder: He hasn't made them in years. I stalked ebay for this one
[01:53:56] <XXCoder> oh
[01:54:23] <jfindley> How much did you pay for it?
[01:54:43] <archivist> Valen, measure, check percentage error over a fixed period, calculate percentage change needed to beat, adjust
[01:54:48] <os1r1s> jfindley: Are you going to make me an offer :)
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[01:55:03] <jfindley> os1r1s: Would you sell it if I did? =)
[01:55:06] <XXCoder> I bid $1
[01:55:08] <XXCoder> heh
[01:56:31] <jfindley> Think something like this would do the job? http://www.amazon.com/Zen-ToolworksTM-Carving-Machine-7x7/dp/B002ARTLUG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436234159&sr=8-1&keywords=cnc+engraver
[01:57:22] <XXCoder> 7"x7"x2"
[01:57:28] <XXCoder> pretty small
[01:57:33] <os1r1s> The PVC frame is the killer there
[01:57:42] <XXCoder> jf whats your usual circuit size
[01:58:46] <XXCoder> jfindley: if your budget is < $5000 I would suggest get slightly larger one
[01:58:56] <XXCoder> it will be STILL under $1000
[01:59:13] <XXCoder> going minimal will regret it
[01:59:29] <jfindley> usually about 2 square inches. I'm trying to figure out how to produce these things fast, with revisions, to get something I like, then I'll need to bulk produce them, but I'm OK with outsourcing that part.
[01:59:52] <XXCoder> jfindley: can design multi-part holds
[02:00:07] <os1r1s> jfindley: Thats exactly what I did. I made 4 iterations of a circuit on my dining room table in the course of an evening.
[02:00:18] <os1r1s> (My wife was not happy)
[02:00:41] <XXCoder> yummy copper siciline pepper for meals
[02:01:08] <jfindley> Heh... My wife gave me the garage, the shed in the back, and my office. Between the three, I can get a lot done without ruining her fine dining area.
[02:01:08] <os1r1s> hehe
[02:01:34] <XXCoder> :)
[02:01:45] <XXCoder> man cant wait to get my machine working!
[02:01:55] <archivist> I did without the wife part and us any room I like :)
[02:03:14] <os1r1s> jfindley: Traces were a a bit big on this revision, but here it is cutting ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcsK8LkYb-M
[02:04:46] <XXCoder> ice fog
[02:04:49] <XXCoder> *nice
[02:04:53] <XXCoder> ohh
[02:04:56] <XXCoder> bucket
[02:04:59] <XXCoder> nice idea
[02:05:10] <XXCoder> too bad my machines too big for that
[02:05:41] <os1r1s> XXCoder: My other ones are too. But that works really good for deflecting any projectiles
[02:06:02] <XXCoder> still not too sure how I will handle mine
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[02:08:41] <os1r1s> XXCoder: This is what I do for my desktop mill/lathe http://os1r1s.com/?p=799
[02:09:09] <XXCoder> that was what I was thinking for my cnc router.
[02:09:15] <XXCoder> would start with cardboards though
[02:09:25] <os1r1s> That is 1/4" thick lexan
[02:09:27] <os1r1s> :)
[02:09:30] <XXCoder> 8020 beams eh
[02:09:37] <os1r1s> I think it will take a bit to go through
[02:10:30] <XXCoder> it just needs to block vision lol
[02:10:53] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtq48VjrulE WOW
[02:13:50] <XXCoder> big allright
[02:15:34] <cradek> wow that groover
[02:16:03] <XXCoder> so, PetefromTn_, when will you get me one lol
[02:16:24] <PetefromTn_> I know right some of the hangover on those tools is unbelievable...
[02:16:32] <PetefromTn_> Look like a foot long
[02:16:52] <PetefromTn_> wonder what the HP is on that main spindle
[02:17:06] <XXCoder> pretty big im sure
[02:18:48] <XXCoder> over a foot, wonder how they control runout
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[02:19:13] <PetefromTn_> love the big five axis gear hobber at the end
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[02:20:56] <XXCoder> holy crap
[02:21:03] <XXCoder> that drill must be 3 foot long
[02:21:10] <XXCoder> or in least 2
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[02:26:28] <PetefromTn_> yup
[02:26:53] <XXCoder> I bet they really had to check runout
[02:27:00] <XXCoder> probably using dial and hammer
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[02:33:59] <XXCoder> spline:
[02:34:04] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil:
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[02:39:50] <toastydeath> PetefromTn_: i had a question from yesterday - you'd mentioned seeing good machines made out of steel
[02:42:27] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[02:42:33] <XXCoder> LOL!! http://gizmodo.com/oh-god-someone-ran-fear-and-loathing-through-googles-n-1716036990
[02:42:36] <toastydeath> do you remember what makes/types?
[02:42:47] <PetefromTn_> there are lots of them why?
[02:42:53] <toastydeath> i am curious because I've never seen a machine tool made out of anything but cast iron
[02:43:00] <toastydeath> metalworking machines out of steel, yes
[02:43:02] <toastydeath> but never machine tools
[02:43:05] <PetefromTn_> I'm sitting here running one as we speak
[02:43:10] <toastydeath> what make/model?
[02:43:12] <toastydeath> (if you don't mind)
[02:43:19] <PetefromTn_> Cincinatti Arrow 500
[02:43:38] <PetefromTn_> the entire base and column is a weldment
[02:43:46] <PetefromTn_> the millhead is a casting tho
[02:44:06] <PetefromTn_> as I recall there are some Fadals that are built similarly
[02:44:21] <toastydeath> yeah, there are a lot of fadals built that way but they're all relatively terrible
[02:44:36] <XXCoder> I use a fadal
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[02:45:05] <XXCoder> its okay for what I usually use it for but it sucks generally
[02:45:06] <PetefromTn_> then mine must be terrible too
[02:45:10] <XXCoder> its kickback is .001
[02:45:13] <XXCoder> huge
[02:45:32] <toastydeath> a machine can be terrible and still be usable, it depends on the price point
[02:45:35] <toastydeath> i.e. haas
[02:45:50] <XXCoder> I'd rather have haas than fadal I use
[02:46:02] <XXCoder> but same time haas has no value add/subtract
[02:46:07] <XXCoder> just value input which sucks.
[02:46:36] <toastydeath> i will still look to see if i can find anyone doing new things with steel construction, there may be ways of damping it
[02:47:01] <XXCoder> toastydeath: I saw someone using granite epoxy to act as damp and mass
[02:47:14] <toastydeath> but when I was making air bearings we were fairly close to several machine manufacturers and the opinion was unanimous
[02:47:35] <toastydeath> steel's weldable and easy to manufacture fast, but sucks to high heaven for any sort of dynamic response
[02:47:56] <toastydeath> XXCoder: yeah, that stuff's actually better than iron for the bulk of the machine
[02:48:15] <toastydeath> several mfgs are/were looking into it but the problem is finishing it
[02:48:28] <XXCoder> I still want to mix up epoxy granite for fun
[02:48:32] <XXCoder> make some statues
[02:48:41] <XXCoder> lamp or 2 even
[02:48:46] <XXCoder> why not?
[02:48:50] <toastydeath> heavily damped lamps, i approve
[02:48:57] <toastydeath> excellent cutting performance
[02:49:00] <XXCoder> lol
[02:49:10] <XXCoder> for looks
[02:49:46] <toastydeath> nope
[02:49:50] <toastydeath> Tool and die lamps
[02:50:20] <toastydeath> Metrology lamps.
[02:50:22] <toastydeath> there you go
[02:50:25] <toastydeath> that's how you market them
[02:50:36] <XXCoder> yeah market isnt what I plan to do with em
[02:50:41] <XXCoder> just for home use
[02:51:51] <toastydeath> oh fine
[02:52:30] <toastydeath> i want to play with EG for surface/reference pieces, apparently with the right aggrigate mix it CAN be ground
[02:54:41] <cradek> > I keep a set [of those multi-fingered tap removers] handy, in case I ever break off a tap in a block of Velveeta cheese.
[02:54:51] <toastydeath> hahahah
[03:01:25] <toastydeath> i'm lucky, I only ever used one tap remover and it's worked every time so far
[03:03:23] <XXCoder> toasty I guess tool would wear out, grinding new surface
[03:06:56] <toastydeath> not sure what the issues are, tbh
[03:07:01] <toastydeath> ONE DAY I WILL FIND OUT!
[03:07:26] <toastydeath> First: up, find one of the Pacemakers that have a 2000 rpm gearbox
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[03:07:32] <toastydeath> cuz fuck yeah
[03:11:09] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo made 40 beautiful parts today including two new designs and using two different sacrificial jaw setups... not bad for a one guy shop I guess..
[03:11:20] <toastydeath> hot!
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[03:13:49] <PetefromTn_> well it is for me anyways... If I am making proven program parts I have made before I can do a lot better but these were the first time I ever made these parts
[03:13:58] <furrywolf> grrrrr. I think it might be developing a rod knock.
[03:14:43] <PetefromTn_> that bites
[03:15:05] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: nice
[03:16:46] <furrywolf> I really, really don't want to pull it apart again. especially not to throw another set of rings at it, plus a piston and con rod...
[03:16:59] <furrywolf> it doesn't burn any oil, at all...
[03:18:40] <furrywolf> it's also developed quite a valve tick, but I guess that's to be expected when you first run a new head.
[03:18:43] <PetefromTn_> Hopefully I can get these deburred and I have to do a drill and tap in another fixture setup for them tomorrow. Then hopefully I will receive the anodizing dyes on Wednesday and I can try my hand at this whole anodizing thing...
[03:19:09] <PetefromTn_> With any luck I can ship them by the end of the week...crossing fingers!!
[03:19:49] <furrywolf> don't use your shiny parts to test the annodizing process.
[03:20:20] <PetefromTn_> actually I make these in three different sizes now.
[03:20:35] <PetefromTn_> One of them I have three pairs of prototypes from sitting here
[03:21:02] <PetefromTn_> they will be a really good stand in for a new one and should give me a good dry run as far as size and amount of current etc...
[03:21:37] <PetefromTn_> Looking forward to being able to offer these in four different sizes all anodized and engraved with my logo LOL at some point anyways
[03:22:38] <PetefromTn_> I swear it takes me forever to make the first ones....subsequent ones should go rather quickly now that I have proven programs and I realized several areas where I can improve cycle times that I have already adjusted a bit..
[03:23:00] <PetefromTn_> Once I make the final adjustments and run the next batch things should go considerably faster.
[03:23:07] <PetefromTn_> hopefully anyway
[03:25:06] <PetefromTn_> http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2515851-huge-crash-takes-out-riders-on-stage-3-of-the-tour-de-france?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
[03:25:13] <PetefromTn_> Damn that does not sound good...
[03:27:02] <PetefromTn_> that was a BAD wreck apparently Cancellara broke his back....damn
[03:27:48] <furrywolf> the downside to riding a half inch from the person in front of you
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[03:29:01] <PetefromTn_> honestly I am amazed there are not more deaths and serious paraplegic and quadraplegic injuries from the race. Some of the wrecks look really bad. They are often going pretty damn fast as you said within inches of each other.
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[03:36:13] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: usually due to very good belt system as well as other stuff
[03:36:37] <XXCoder> its been suggested to replace the usual cross belt + over shuolder one with one from racing
[03:36:42] <XXCoder> which is MUCH more secure
[03:36:44] <XXCoder> but it never happened
[03:37:53] <PetefromTn_> sorry I don't know what you are talking about...
[03:38:25] <XXCoder> its hard to explain but defnitely different secure system for holding person in seat
[03:38:33] <XXCoder> almost like baby seat type
[03:38:39] <XXCoder> maybe why it havent spread :P
[03:39:22] <toastydeath> XXCoder: iirc racing seats cause a shitload of neck injuries/deaths if you're not wearing a hans device
[03:39:33] <XXCoder> ok
[03:39:36] <toastydeath> the antisubmarine belts
[03:39:46] <toastydeath> 5 and 6 point
[03:40:11] <PetefromTn_> I thought we were talking about bicycle racing?
[03:40:22] <toastydeath> oh. well, i'm retarded!
[03:40:27] * furrywolf thought we were talking about bicycle racing too
[03:40:29] <toastydeath> that's what i get for tabbing over
[03:40:42] <XXCoder> oh thought you guys was talking about car racing
[03:40:48] <XXCoder> nm then lol
[03:40:49] <PetefromTn_> hehe
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[03:42:18] <PetefromTn_> https://www.facebook.com/OfficialFunniestCrazyVideo/videos/505058756318912/ interesting....kinda nutz too
[03:45:09] <XXCoder> thats awesome. too bad unplayable for me
[03:45:12] <furrywolf> hrmm. just tested a yard sale toaster I got a long time ago. it and I seem to have a rather different opinion of what a "3" on a 0-10 scale means. I consider 3/10 to be lightly toasted. it considers 3/10 to mean the result is 3/10ths carbon...
[03:45:36] <XXCoder> probably why it was in yard sale
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[03:55:31] <PetefromTn_> i've bought a half dozen different toastrs over the years none of which worked the way I expected
[03:56:03] <furrywolf> too many buttons. how is "Reheat" mode different from "Defrost" mode different from "Bagel" mode different from "Normal" mode? lol
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[03:56:49] <XXCoder> furrywolf: from what I recall, defrost has specific pattern of pluses
[03:56:55] <XXCoder> so it melts without warming too much
[03:57:00] <XXCoder> rest dunnop
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[04:02:40] <furrywolf> no pulsing according to my inverter. perfectly steady draw...
[04:03:35] <XXCoder> hmm ok
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[04:04:32] <XXCoder> https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110325195310AAtriaG
[04:04:46] <furrywolf> I should go shopping so I'm not eating toast for dinner, but back hurts. :(
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[04:05:27] <furrywolf> ... pete talks about bicycles, you talk about cars. I talk about toasters, you talk about microwaves.
[04:05:27] <PetefromTn_> order in
[04:06:27] <XXCoder> furrywolf: you started on microwave
[04:06:34] <AGR> pcw_home: I need some more help please. Still no output voltage from 7i33 for VFD. http://pastebin.com/dTieTfG6
[04:06:49] <XXCoder> toasters dont have defrost mode from what I understand
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[04:07:54] <furrywolf> ... where, at any point, did I mention microwaves?
[04:08:18] <furrywolf> my toaster has buttons on the front for the modes described above. (well, it doesn't have a normal button, but it has a cancel button that turns off the other buttons)
[04:08:34] <XXCoder> defrost on toaster oven interesting
[04:08:37] <XXCoder> never saw such
[04:09:54] <XXCoder> wonder how that works
[04:10:28] <furrywolf> not toaster oven, just regular toaster.
[04:10:53] <XXCoder> one about toast (not oven) says it adjusts timing
[04:11:03] <XXCoder> so its slightly longer so it deices then toasts
[04:11:08] <Rab> Could be the same way: a pattern of pulses intended to evenly heat the bread without actually toasting.
[04:12:52] <furrywolf> http://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-Toasting-Controls-7-Setting-Separate/dp/B00MR5BINY
[04:12:58] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> no pulsing according to my inverter. perfectly steady draw...
[04:15:13] <skunksleep> AGR: are you actually enabling the pwm?
[04:16:09] <PetefromTn_> AGR I know you are not wanting modbus setup but I found this which was instructions to convert my WJ200 from analog to modbus. maybe it will help..
[04:16:27] <PetefromTn_> http://pastebin.com/g2Ak9bm9
[04:17:55] <PetefromTn_> as you can see it has sections of OLD and NEW with new being the modbus stuff... Gonna have to convert back to OLD here soon LOL
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[04:18:15] <PetefromTn_> guess not heh
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[04:19:31] * furrywolf remembers when an automatic toasted had a pair of contacts and a bimetal strip that popped the release mechanism
[04:19:32] <furrywolf> toaster
[04:20:04] <XXCoder> sometimes old stuff last so danged forver
[04:21:09] <furrywolf> I have a strange feeling defrost simply means "double the timer".
[04:21:21] <AGR> skunksleep: the direction signal work and I can use a D cell 1.5 volt battery and drive the spindle. so its just waiting for voltage
[04:21:27] <XXCoder> one page says its bit longer but yeah dunno
[04:21:43] <XXCoder> easy enough to test, use timer and use it with and without defrost mode
[04:22:05] <skunksleep> But are you enabling the pwm gen?
[04:22:33] <AGR> out of the 7i33. look's like problem with scale statements
[04:23:42] <pcw_home> typically for spindles you scale the output with full speed in RPM
[04:23:48] <furrywolf> part of why I got this toaster was because I was hoping the defrost button DID do some fancy partial-power thing or something...
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[04:24:10] <furrywolf> I get sprouted bread, and I keep it frozen... was hoping this toaster had some special feature that would toast it better...
[04:24:58] <skunksleep> AGR: what is net spindle-enable hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.01.enable
[04:24:58] <skunksleep> Hooked to in hal?
[04:25:38] <AGR> skunksleep: pcm_home responded with the enable statement I am using. http://pastebin.com/dTieTfG6
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[04:29:19] <skunksleep> AGR: spindle-enable needs to be set true... Can you post your whole hal file?
[04:29:24] <AGR> pcw_home: I think I have done that please see my file http://pastebin.com/dTieTfG6
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[04:32:40] <os1r1s> pcw_home: Do the mesa cards read HEDS encoders without modification?
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[04:40:45] <AGR> skunksleep: Please see my hal file. http://pastebin.com/jfVG5h4E
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[08:20:35] <s1dev> anyone around?
[08:22:28] <XXCoder> I think no
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[08:35:05] <Tom_itx> just the night watchman
[08:35:36] <archivist> the rest are at work, asleep or down the pub
[08:36:49] <archivist> and the bots are just waiting for the real question
[08:37:28] <XXCoder> just watch out for grok
[08:37:39] <XXCoder> grue that is
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[09:35:52] <Jymmm> Would anytime have an idea what this thing uses internally to switch the 20A load on/off? a relay? http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-LTB30-1LZ-Incandescent-Resistive-Inductive-5-10-15-30/dp/B002WTC91K
[09:36:18] <Jymmm> anyone*
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[09:41:37] <Jymmm> I want to switch between 20A inductive loads and not sure if a relay is the way to go, or if there is some panel with this type of setup already. It's basically to cycle between appliances when on generator.
[09:43:08] <Jymmm> I only have 1800W available on the gen, and would rather wire something up to switch in/out each load every 30 to 90 minutes, lather, rinse, repeat.
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[10:00:49] <malcom2073> Relay would be easiest
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[10:09:36] <s1dev> Anyone have any experience with the Tormach slant bed lathes?
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[10:50:53] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Since I only have 2KW available, what I'd like to do is only have certain circuits active, and switch between the crotical loads as needed (Frig, Freezer, AC, Lights) and not power up things like the hottub
[10:52:42] <malcom2073> yeah I'd wire up some relays, you can get AC relays capable of that current fairly cheap, DIN rail mountable so you can have them organized all nice and neat too. What are you using for a timer?
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[10:54:30] <Jymmm> malcom2073: expensively, timer relays. But maybe an arduino and some SSR's for control of the contactors.
[10:55:35] <Jymmm> malcom2073: a coule of these might work https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10000007/1147900-4-channel-ac-dc-relay-module
[10:56:45] <malcom2073> Yeah, I'd watch those though, I've seen a couple (sainsmart was guilty of it) which had traces a bit closer than I'd like for 110AC
[10:57:03] <Jymmm> http://www.dx.com/p/produino-diy-pc817-8-channel-5v-relay-module-w-optocoupler-extension-board-blue-292124
[10:57:34] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Heh, I'll watch out for that.
[10:58:06] <malcom2073> But yeah that should work fine
[10:58:18] <Jymmm> I DO have some "real" 110V relays, not sure if they at 10, 15, or 20A though, all DIN rail mount
[10:58:41] <malcom2073> The DIN rail mountable stuff is nice if you can get it, bit more expensive heh
[10:59:34] <Jymmm> pricer but interestng http://www.dx.com/p/8-channel-5v-solid-state-relay-module-blue-black-green-250v-2a-213880
[10:59:57] <malcom2073> Solid states typically have a lower current rating, as they need heatsinks for any decent amount of current
[11:00:04] <malcom2073> Ah yeah, 2 amp
[11:00:23] <Jymmm> Those would be JSUT for "control", not load handling
[11:00:26] <Jymmm> JUST*
[11:00:32] <malcom2073> Oh control of the big relays?
[11:00:44] <Jymmm> 5v to coil of REAL relays
[11:00:58] <malcom2073> yeah that'd work
[11:01:08] <Jymmm> 5v signal to control 110V coil
[11:01:17] <malcom2073> Yeah
[11:01:38] <Jymmm> "Omron 5V solid state relay 240V 2A,"
[11:02:15] <malcom2073> I'm assuming that's 240VAC... solid state AC and DC relays are entirely different
[11:02:44] <Jymmm> Well, I'll just get the other board with real relay then
[11:02:55] <Jymmm> OHHHHHHHHHHHHH
[11:03:15] <Jymmm> no, nm
[11:03:38] <malcom2073> "the input power supply: 5V DC (160mA);" <- That doesn't seem correct, but the datasheet is "Service Unavailable" at the moment
[11:03:50] <archivist> SSR drives the load direct and does 0 level switching for inductive loads and is cheap
[11:05:41] <malcom2073> archivist: AC SSR's do, DC do not.
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[11:05:51] <Jymmm> So, I guess if I had SPDT relays/contactors. leave the NO contacts under "normal" mains control, and switch in each branch as needed. Not sure how to seperate mains/gen power though.
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[11:07:20] <malcom2073> You really don't want to be designing your own automatic switching equipment
[11:07:56] <malcom2073> Switching loads on/off to load balance the generator yeah, but switching mains between main and generator power?
[11:07:59] <Jymmm> malcom2073: You're right. But I'm not aware of anything that would allow you to switch on/off branches as needed.
[11:09:13] <malcom2073> You could get a auto switching subpanel, and put everything on there, then attach relays to the outputs. Then it'll automatically switch over to the subpanel when the generator kicks on, and allow you to switch individual lines on/off.
[11:09:18] <Jymmm> In the panel, all the circuits are on a single buss bar. But I need to break them out to each individual circuit.
[11:09:36] <malcom2073> I mean the actual mains/generator handoff
[11:10:03] <_methods> don't most people make a sub panel the generator goes into and supplies the circuits they want to keep alive?
[11:10:05] <Jymmm> Yeah, That I'm aware of, but still need to brea out individual circuits
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[11:10:34] <malcom2073> Just break them out off the subpanel. You have wires coming *out* of the panel, run them into relays before they go to their circuits.
[11:11:28] <Jymmm> _methods: Yes, but I dont want to energize the relays on a continous basis.
[11:11:36] <_methods> yeah i get that
[11:12:40] <_methods> i thought you were worried about energizing the whole main braker panel
[11:13:10] <Jymmm> no, just breaking out the critical circuits FROM the main panel,
[11:13:38] <Jymmm> for both total (under mains) and individual control (under gen)
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[11:18:12] <Jymmm> Holy Crap $400 http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-10-Circuit-Manual-Transfer-Switch-Kit-31410CRK/202214969
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[11:19:28] <Jymmm> Is there panel that does on/off/on that goes by a different name?
[11:22:06] <Jymmm> An A/B switch if you will
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[11:34:24] <Jymmm> _methods: Interlock... https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GbtRxcb-cmA#t=261
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[11:45:14] <EricBear> Everning all from oz
[11:53:55] <skunkworks> good early morning from WI
[11:59:10] <archivist> sammich time UK
[12:04:31] <EricBear> Hi guys in diycnc sorry about the delay in reply
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[12:05:23] <EricBear> wonder if this is the right channel to get some help reguarding cnc router table
[12:05:30] <skunkworks> well - you are upside down... It probably takes time for the signal to get straitened out...
[12:05:58] <EricBear> could be that
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[12:06:31] <skunkworks> ask away
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[12:06:44] <EricBear> I have a gerber system 48 plus router table
[12:06:56] <EricBear> when i use the X axis it will go the right direction and then when i push the button to go again it goes the other way
[12:08:01] <EricBear> wondering what could be causing this to happan
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[12:08:54] <archivist> scope, meter and some diagnosis
[12:10:59] <EricBear> wish i had a scope
[12:11:13] <EricBear> or know how to use it
[12:12:10] <EricBear> could it be a voltage problum
[12:13:18] <EricBear> It user 6 wire steppers wired up as 4 wire
[12:13:36] <archivist> bipolar
[12:13:44] <EricBear> yes
[12:14:20] <archivist> but that is likely not the problem
[12:14:29] <EricBear> seams to hapan with a little speed
[12:14:55] <EricBear> im running aroune 200
[12:15:18] <archivist> 200 midgets a furlong?
[12:15:19] <EricBear> take i above that and it starts playing up
[12:15:46] <EricBear> mile :-)
[12:16:43] <EricBear> very old steppers gerber is 20 years old
[12:16:53] <archivist> numbers without units dont mean a lot
[12:17:27] <archivist> I also dont know if you are using an old control and drivers
[12:17:35] <EricBear> was running well when I got it had to rip out all motherboare and replace with new BOB and stepper drivers
[12:18:27] <archivist> some bobs dont drive some drivers very well
[12:19:24] <EricBear> the y and Z axis seame to run ok
[12:19:36] <archivist> be wary of opto outputs on the bob driving an opto on the driver, ends up with too low current
[12:19:53] <EricBear> the BOB and steppers are from masmind
[12:19:59] <archivist> random direction or missed steps are the result
[12:20:16] <archivist> we cannot know all on the market
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[12:21:21] <EricBear> http://www.massmind.org/Techref/io/stepper/THB6064/index.htm
[12:21:59] <EricBear> looks like i will have to keep trying to see if i can find the problum
[12:22:40] <EricBear> was thinking of getting a gecko driver
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[12:23:28] * jthornton likes his 203v drives
[12:23:38] * Tom_itx does as well
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[12:25:20] <archivist> swap the drive with another axis see if the fault moves to decide bob or drive
[12:26:14] <asdfasd> anyone experienced with UV inkjet printing?
[12:26:14] <EricBear> so it looks like I will have to buy a gecko driver
[12:27:03] <archivist> asdfasd, CaptHindsight likely if anyone at all
[12:27:08] <EricBear> always teams to be stepper motor on the X axis
[12:27:23] <asdfasd> archivist thanks
[12:27:41] <EricBear> always seams to be stepper motor on the X axis
[12:27:49] <archivist> if you swap the driver with Y and it is still X it is not the driver
[12:29:07] <EricBear> right ok thank you i will go do some more testing just to see if i can nut out stepper moter or driver
[12:29:31] <archivist> dont forget the bob can be faulty too
[12:29:45] <EricBear> have funny feeling its the motor
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[12:30:47] <archivist> motors going backwards is a user problem
[12:31:22] <archivist> dont try to step too fast or accelerate too fast
[12:31:45] <EricBear> ok thank you archivist have to go pick up daughter from work. thank you for your help hope to catch you in the future
[12:32:13] <EricBear> you normaly on here
[12:32:21] <archivist> yer
[12:32:44] <archivist> but plenty of others too
[12:33:01] <EricBear> ok thankyou will come back in latter after i do some more testing
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[12:45:03] <CaptHindsight> asdfasd: just with making the radcure inks and the printers
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[13:01:36] <Deejay> hoi
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[13:52:46] <AGR> test
[13:53:04] <skunkworks> 123
[13:54:11] <archivist> 7042ns
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[13:56:06] <skunkworks> AGR, your spindle-enable signal is not hooked to anything..
[13:56:12] <skunkworks> in your hal file
[13:57:50] <skunkworks> so hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.01.enable is never enabled.
[13:58:32] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.com/jfVG5h4E
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[14:05:10] <AGR> skunkworks: thanks, the vfd does not seem to need a enable to run and I don't see a terminal to connect a wire to the vfd, do I need to have the enable statement to make LinuxCNC let the 7i33 output voltage for the speed control
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[14:08:18] <skunkworks> I am not talking about the vfd.. the actual pwm module needs to be enabled.
[14:10:25] <AGR> skunkworks: oh,
[14:13:54] <AGR> skunkworks: can you give me a example of what that should look like
[14:16:45] <skunkworks> cheap and drity - change net spindle-enable hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.01.enable
[14:16:46] <skunkworks> tp
[14:16:48] <skunkworks> to
[14:17:14] <skunkworks> net spindle-enable hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.01.enable emcmot.00.enable
[14:17:37] <skunkworks> that would enable the pwm when the servo drives come up.
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[14:20:23] <AGR> skunkworks: do I use emcmot.00 or emcmot.01
[14:20:52] <skunkworks> doesn't really matter - they all get turned on at the same time.. (when linuxcnc turns 'on')
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[14:21:41] <AGR> skunkworks: thank you, I will tryout
[14:26:32] <AGR> skunkworks: are these lines correct in my spindle section: loadrt scale count=1 and addf scale.0 servo-thread
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[15:06:38] <furkanyilmaz11> Hi all I am testing my device by arcspiral g-code. In jog mode the machine is very fast as I want. But in g-code mode axises are too much slower than jog mode. I want to make faster it. I tried to change the f value in g-code. And I increased values from ini file. But currently g-code motions isnt fast like jog mode. Any suggest?
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[15:08:20] <cpresser> furkanyilmaz11: acceleration? motion-blending?
[15:08:25] <skunkworks> can you increase your acceleration?
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[15:12:14] <furkanyilmaz11> acceleration is 750 and speed is 300
[15:12:21] <furkanyilmaz11> I think thats enough isn tit?
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[15:12:27] <furkanyilmaz11> isnt it?
[15:12:57] <furkanyilmaz11> And in jog mode fast so that means accel is enough right?
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[15:13:44] <furkanyilmaz11> When I jog same distance as g-code. Thats going fast but in g-code its slow
[15:14:32] <furkanyilmaz11> I am trying to increase feed percent. But speed is changing %0 to %150 but after 150 percent speed is same
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[15:18:20] <cpresser> furkanyilmaz11: use the MDI-Tab fopr test. programm G0 and G1 moves and see how they behave
[15:22:21] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-business-industrial/city-of-toronto/colonial-broach-grinder/1085181244?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[15:22:24] <zeeshan> interesting machine
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[15:29:56] <archivist> damned rare, never seen one before
[15:30:24] <furrywolf> nor have I.
[15:30:57] <archivist> zeeshan, buy it so you can make broaches
[15:31:32] <archivist> you do need moooooore shed space
[15:32:16] * furrywolf needs a shed. :(
[15:32:56] * skunkworks has needs
[15:33:30] * furrywolf has needs too, but can't find the right woman
[15:41:30] <jdh> have you considered other genders?
[15:43:09] <furrywolf> not interested.
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[15:43:36] <Rab> Man skilled with strapon is probably even rarer, but could be interesting.
[15:44:51] <jdh> at that point, wouldn't it be easier to skip the strap on part?
[15:44:53] <Rab> (Cisgendered)
[15:45:06] <furrywolf> men don't tend to need strapons...
[15:45:17] <furrywolf> but, as I said, I'm not interested in men.
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[15:51:46] <furrywolf> bleh. I really do not want to pull this generator apart again, but I think I have to. at a minimum, I need to fix a sticking exhaust valve.
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[15:53:43] <furrywolf> it was sticking after the first test run, but it was burning so much oil back then that I figured it was just getting gummed up. when rebuilding the motor, got it nice and free with brake cleaner, and now the engine isn't burning oil... but it's still sticking again.
[15:55:00] <archivist> use a detergent oil so it gums up less
[15:55:17] <cradek> is a sticking valve just a lubrication problem? I have only seen that once, and the valve froze because there was NO oil getting up there
[15:55:26] <furrywolf> I'm using 10w30 motor oil just like honda says I should. as far as I know, all motor oils are detergent oils...
[15:55:42] <furrywolf> cradek: I think it's chinese clearances causing the issue.
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[15:55:52] <furrywolf> it's a brand new chinese head with brand new chinese valves in it....
[15:55:57] <cradek> ah
[15:56:02] <cradek> sounds harder to fix
[15:56:26] <furrywolf> and I really hope it isn't developing a rod knock... I thought I heard one yesterday, but it was pretty quiet, and I'm not sure.
[15:56:27] <archivist> not all oils have the same level of detergent
[15:56:52] <archivist> piston slap? all oiling based
[15:57:09] <furrywolf> sounded more like rod to me.
[15:57:16] <archivist> is it pumped or splashed about
[15:57:29] <furrywolf> I'll give it an oil change... I was going to wait 5 hours, and it's only been 3, but it can't hurt.
[15:57:34] <furrywolf> splash
[15:59:46] <CaptHindsight> hydraulic lifters can get sticky and stay compressed
[16:00:15] <furrywolf> it doesn't have hydraulic lifters. lol
[16:00:20] <furrywolf> it's a 4.5hp generator motor
[16:00:40] <CaptHindsight> if valves are not opening in a solid valve train then something got bent or worn down
[16:01:12] <furrywolf> it's not closing.
[16:01:26] <CaptHindsight> i used to be the master of breaking valve trains :)
[16:02:10] <furrywolf> how the hell do you do that? :P
[16:02:15] <archivist> I got quick at taking the side off hammering the valve and carrying on with one vehicle
[16:02:26] <CaptHindsight> return spring broken? bent valve?
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[16:03:07] <furrywolf> it's tight in the guide.
[16:03:39] <archivist> polish it a bit
[16:03:42] <furrywolf> it got gummed up quickly again, and feels like you're pushing it through honey... when you let go, it slowly squishes back up...
[16:03:55] <CaptHindsight> carbon buildup? bent stem? guide damaged?
[16:04:02] <furrywolf> yes, but that requires taking the engine apart again. as I said before, <furrywolf> bleh. I really do not want to pull this generator apart again, but I think I have to. at a minimum, I need to fix a sticking exhaust valve.
[16:04:10] <furrywolf> hence why I think I have to. heh.
[16:04:16] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: brand new chinese garbage
[16:04:19] <archivist> enjoy :)
[16:04:25] <CaptHindsight> Magic Motor Flush!
[16:05:00] <furrywolf> the generator came with the original head off, and a new chinese head. so I figured there must have been a reason to scrap the old head, and put the new head on.
[16:05:05] <CaptHindsight> heh, so you didn't mic the stem and measure the ID of the guide?!
[16:05:21] <furrywolf> it came entirely pre-assembled.
[16:05:42] <CaptHindsight> figures
[16:05:43] <cradek> guess it could be bent too
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[16:05:48] <cradek> just hammer it in there, it'll go
[16:05:53] <zeeshan> bfh
[16:05:58] <furrywolf> china sells complete assembled heads for less than honda sells a valve for. heh.
[16:06:24] <CaptHindsight> "and sometimes we even check the tolerances" by eye
[16:06:36] <CaptHindsight> another bargain
[16:07:15] <furrywolf> I wouldn't have bought it, but it came with the generator...
[16:07:34] <furrywolf> I could clean up the old one it came with, but it felt like the valves were a little loose.
[16:08:26] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-GX200-Cylinder-Head-Assembly-kit-Honda-Replacement-Free-Shipping-/280957876934 they come like that, rockers installed and everything, ready to be bolted on.
[16:08:26] <archivist> rattling fit for the win
[16:08:50] <CaptHindsight> ate least it doesn't burn oil :)
[16:09:25] <CaptHindsight> and the piston should move it back out of the way
[16:09:31] <furrywolf> no, it doesn't burn any oil. my rehone job seems to have worked well.
[16:10:18] <furrywolf> when I first started it, before the rebuild, it make a cloud of blue smoke so heavy it settled to the ground and obscured the entire area...
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[16:10:50] <furrywolf> found the rings so worn the oil rings were actually smaller than the piston! they were loose, not stuck, just so worn they no longer stuck out in the slightest...
[16:11:30] <furrywolf> measured the ring end gap on the compression rings, don't remember the exact numbers, but something like twice the service limit.
[16:14:20] <furrywolf> it wasn't "which feeler fits", but "how many fit" :)
[16:14:43] <CaptHindsight> does the block use sleeves in the cylinders?
[16:14:51] <furrywolf> yes
[16:16:22] <furrywolf> the knock is really pissing me off... all the bearings felt good...
[16:16:28] <furrywolf> and the piston skirt OD was good...
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[16:18:38] <furrywolf> I could just keep running it and hope the valve stops sticking
[16:18:44] <furrywolf> it seems to quiet down at high rpm...
[16:18:52] <furrywolf> or high temperature more likely
[16:19:02] <CaptHindsight> the stem and guide will wear
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[16:20:05] <CaptHindsight> probably get away with it if the stem and guide are straight
[16:20:29] <furrywolf> and if the knock doesn't get worse, I might just label it "good enough".
[16:22:08] <furrywolf> if it breaks, rebuild it again. heh.
[16:23:28] <furrywolf> and/or sell it quickly!
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[16:38:15] <dirty_d> I interpolated a 0.332" hole with a 0.005" finishing pass, came out to 0.325"
[16:38:36] <dirty_d> dont have the 0.25" end mill around, but is it probably just 0.0035" undersized?
[16:38:44] <dirty_d> that seems like a lot
[16:39:14] <cradek> what is the end mill's length and diameter?
[16:39:40] <dirty_d> 0.25" and about 0.75" stickout
[16:40:02] <skunkworks> what material and what feed :)
[16:40:12] <dirty_d> finishing pass was 0.005" doc at about 5 ipm
[16:40:16] <dirty_d> 6061
[16:40:25] <dirty_d> 2000rpm
[16:40:26] <os1r1s> Can anyone help answer some questions about switching a mini-mill from steppers to servos?
[16:40:35] <skunkworks> you have to go slower
[16:40:57] <dirty_d> the cutter was flexing?
[16:40:59] <archivist> dirty_d, have you corrected any machine backlash
[16:41:19] <dirty_d> archivist, yes its 0.0015" on x and y and compensated
[16:42:12] <dirty_d> the hole came out round, just 0.007" undersized
[16:42:39] <dirty_d> which is rediculous
[16:43:10] <dirty_d> skunkworks, why?
[16:43:55] <cradek> is that hss or carbide?
[16:43:56] <jdh> I had that happen. my end mill was smaller than advertised
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[16:43:58] <dirty_d> HSS
[16:44:13] <dirty_d> and cheap, so it very well may be that undersized
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[16:44:16] <Rab> dirty_d, 6061 is pretty soft. Could it be that the surface is heating up and "smearing" enough for the apparent decrease in diameter? Are you climb or conventional milling?
[16:44:16] <archivist> what path mode too
[16:44:35] <PetefromTn_> have you mic'd the endmill?
[16:44:47] <dirty_d> climb milling, helical interpolated then a circular interpolated finishing pass at 3/8" depth
[16:45:07] <archivist> exact path or what
[16:45:08] <dirty_d> PetefromTn_, no thats the first thing im going to do when im near it
[16:45:16] <PetefromTn_> OK
[16:45:18] <skunkworks> at 5 inches a minute - the circle (.075") machined in 2.8 seconds.. You need to take into acount the outside of the cut..
[16:45:48] <cradek> yeah, crank your spindle faster and cut a lot slower
[16:46:21] <dirty_d> archivist, i set exact path mode in my ini file
[16:46:43] <PetefromTn_> at least it is undersize you can always make it bigger ;)
[16:47:05] <dirty_d> meh, it was to be threaded, so it was close enough anyway
[16:47:09] <dirty_d> but still
[16:47:45] <archivist> it is a gcode too http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G61-G61_1 have you got some cam setting a looser tolerance
[16:47:56] <dirty_d> i wonder if the cam program changed the path mode
[16:48:10] <dirty_d> gonna look at taht now
[16:57:09] <dirty_d> looks good to me http://pastebin.com/yMBatBUd
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[17:08:19] <dirty_d> what would the cutter speed at the outside of the hole be? 0.25" / 0.082" * 5ipm = 15.24ipm
[17:09:14] <dirty_d> thats 0.00762" per tooth on a 0.25" 2-flute endmill
[17:09:18] <dirty_d> i guess that is my problem
[17:13:12] <skunkworks> yep
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[17:19:57] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, not if you don't ask them
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[17:25:47] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: The servo motor itself sounds reasonably simple. I was looking at the servo drivers. I saw the gecko 320x and the imsrv ones. It appears they function like stepper drivers, but with encoder interfaces. But whats confusing is that it looks like the mesa cards read the encoders too. Is there a better way to driver directly using mesa daughter boards?
[17:27:03] <skunkworks> yes - conventional servo amps.. Then linuxcnc closes the pid loop
[17:27:33] <skunkworks> like amc or even mesa has servo amps
[17:28:08] <os1r1s> skunkworks: Can you point me to the mesa servo amps?
[17:28:34] <PetefromTn_> mesanet.com
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[17:30:46] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Like the 7i54?
[17:31:05] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you are asking
[17:31:45] <os1r1s> Would you plug the 7i54 into a 5i25 for example to interface to linuxcnc
[17:33:28] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you are building, personally on my machine I have the 5i25/7i77 combo and it works wonderfully. I am planning to use the same thing on the CNC lathe I am building now. these are more commercial machines
[17:37:36] <skunkworks> the 7i54 would requre a 5i20 or similar card with the 50 pin header
[17:40:02] <os1r1s> So the 7i77 would plug into what servo drivers?
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[17:41:24] <archivist> depends what sort of motor you want to use
[17:41:39] <archivist> dc or bldc etc
[17:42:14] <os1r1s> I was looking at the ones imsrv or super-tech sell. Those are DC with HEDS encoders
[17:42:39] <os1r1s> 30V 2.x amp
[17:43:14] <archivist> h bridge can drive a dc motor
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[17:46:51] <os1r1s> archivist: Do you have any recommendations on board that would work well with the 7i77 for example?
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[17:47:15] <archivist> not used any mesa cards myself yet
[17:48:25] <cpresser> os1r1s: those should work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brushless-Type-Servo-Amplifier-B12A6L-/291505411201?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43df139481
[17:50:11] <os1r1s> cpresser: Thanks for the example. I'll dig a bit.
[17:50:32] <archivist> that is a bldc motor drive not a DC
[17:51:15] <cpresser> archivist: true. i didnt look close enough
[17:51:45] <cpresser> os1r1s: this one is for brushed motors: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ADVANCED-MOTION-CONTROLS-BRUSH-TYPE-PWM-SERVO-AMPLIFIER-MODEL-12A8M-/252018611909?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aad7ad6c5
[17:51:58] <archivist> 7I54 is a 6 channel h bridge 40v 3A which covers the motors probably
[17:52:08] <archivist> only need one :)
[17:52:43] <os1r1s> Something like these ... http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/assemblymotorreducer.aspx
[17:52:47] <os1r1s> Motors ...
[17:54:38] <cpresser> os1r1s: i would recommend to check the encoders first
[17:54:56] <cpresser> the 7i77 can handle quadrature encoders
[17:58:24] <os1r1s> cpresser: It looks like 2 channel quadrature output
[17:58:31] <cpresser> sounds good
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[18:00:59] <os1r1s> cpresser: Question is, could the HD-DB adapter interface the 5i25 to the 7i54
[18:03:25] <cpresser> you should ask pcw_home this question.
[18:04:24] <cpresser> but my guess would be no. its intended to be used the other way.
[18:04:44] <cpresser> worst case: you need to build some cables by yourself
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[18:06:21] <os1r1s> cpresser: Right. Ok.
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[18:31:23] <Jymmm> Yo fuzzy one in humbolt county
[18:33:14] <furrywolf> yes?
[18:33:24] <Jymmm> furrywolf: 60¢/W used. worth it ?? http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ele/5109696264.html
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[18:35:36] <furrywolf> seems decent
[18:36:03] <Jymmm> 12yo , that ok?
[18:36:10] <Jymmm> 13*
[18:36:34] <marmite_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/12zd9k29a13hxq0/Part1bas.jpg?dl=0 any ideas on how i can machine this out of aluminium ? mesurements are in mm
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[18:37:03] <furrywolf> panels seem to last a long time. if they're badly yellowed, or have corrosion on the connections between the cells, skip them.
[18:37:35] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Ok, I'll bring a DMM too
[18:38:01] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/pullstartnoise01.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/pullstartnoise02.jpg one of the eu2000is I got ran, but made some pretty awful noises... plinks, clunks, thuds,.... I took it apart expecting to find the pullstart was crunched, since that's where the noises seemed to be coming from... but no, the problem is much simpler.
[18:38:52] <Jymmm> spark plug socket?
[18:39:17] <cradek> ha
[18:39:18] <furrywolf> yep
[18:39:35] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Nice, free tools as a bonus!!!
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[18:39:55] <furrywolf> the teeth on the drive cup are a bit hammered from hitting the socket, but I decided they were good enough.
[18:41:01] <furrywolf> it's hard to see in the photo, but it's dug maybe 3/32 into the aluminum on the bottom
[18:42:03] <Jymmm> yeow, and on a somewhat thin mounting stud too
[18:42:27] <furrywolf> nah, it's pretty thick, and all it does is hold the pullstart.
[18:43:24] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Oh, I stopped by and looked at those 20¢/W panels.... I thought it was a crack or two, they are all completely shattered... a million cracks! No thanks.
[18:43:32] <furrywolf> Jymmm: I don't see any yellowing in the pictures, so internal corrosion is the only thing to watch out for.
[18:43:50] <furrywolf> Jymmm: remember when I said you didn't seem to be comprehending that the entire panel was in 1/4" squares?
[18:44:10] <furrywolf> now does what I was saying make more sense? :P
[18:44:13] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I didn't know they used tempered glass,
[18:45:54] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Yeah it does, I thought it was just window glass. No way in hell to stablize that in the least
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[18:45:59] <furrywolf> if you buy those panels, try to get the guy to give you some of the racking at a good price while you're there.
[18:46:20] <furrywolf> Jymmm: very thinned automotive clearcoat, like I said... :P
[18:47:29] <Jymmm> furrywolf: They sell individual cells too, so I've seen how thing/brittle they are, I wouldn't even have bothered unless free.
[18:47:43] <Jymmm> furrywolf: ... AND had the clearcoat on hand already
[18:47:49] <furrywolf> I've had good luck with old panels, except for some Arco ones with internal corrosion.
[18:47:53] <furrywolf> ... yes, I was telling you these things.
[18:48:13] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Had you said tempered glass, I would have totally got it.
[18:48:37] <Jymmm> I was thinking one or two cracks,
[18:48:39] <Jymmm> =)
[18:48:55] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/arco01.jpg there's an example of one with some internal corrosion and some yellowing.
[18:49:03] <furrywolf> the yellowing isn't nearly as much of a problem as the corrosion.
[18:49:19] <Jymmm> This guy doens't list a city, probably smethign like Los Banos I bet.
[18:49:49] <Jymmm> what are the brown squares?
[18:49:58] <Jymmm> the yellowing?
[18:50:25] <furrywolf> yes
[18:50:27] <Jymmm> and the whitish stuff at the edges?
[18:50:31] <furrywolf> corrosion
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[18:50:44] <Jymmm> both are corrosion?
[18:51:03] <furrywolf> no
[18:51:06] <Jymmm> the yellowing is so uniform
[18:51:09] <furrywolf> the yellowing is due to heat
[18:51:22] <furrywolf> the corrosion is due to moisture
[18:51:45] <furrywolf> Arco panels all had the fuck abused out of them, so when you find them, they're always yellowed. the corrosion is less common.
[18:52:00] <Jymmm> but what is it? The yellowing that is. mechanical seperation?
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[18:52:26] <furrywolf> degredation of the plastic layer
[18:52:38] <furrywolf> those panels have a plastic instead of glass for greater durability...
[18:52:45] <Jymmm> AH, ok
[18:53:12] <Jymmm> Seems to strange, I could almost take a straight line to it
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[18:53:57] <furrywolf> most Arco panels are from a power plant built in the early '80s in the carrizo desert, and baked in the hot sun for many years... I also have some that were probably used in one of their concentrating setups, that are so yellow it's hard to see the cells.
[18:55:14] <furrywolf> http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_solar_used.html his on the bottom of that page are worse than mine. :)
[18:55:19] <Jymmm> Top half, bottom row, third from the right... You can tell that cell was turned around when installed. I'm guess the was a wafer fab issue
[18:56:15] <furrywolf> I don't think I have pictures of my really bad ones... they were a small odd sized used in the concentrating arrays, and are very, very yellow. but, they put out around 2/3rds of their power still.
[18:56:35] <furrywolf> the ones in the picture I pasted put out around 1/3rd of their rated power, due to corrosion.
[18:56:45] <furrywolf> pissed me off, but at least I got them cheap.
[18:56:59] <furrywolf> ($20/panel)
[18:57:07] <Jymmm> the corrosion didn't show up till leter?
[18:57:38] <Jymmm> visiably show
[18:57:56] <furrywolf> they measure perfect for both short-circuit current and open-circuit voltage. I didn't know there was a problem until I got them all mounted and realized they weren't putting out crap for power.
[18:58:45] <Jymmm> Ah. what is "short circuit voltage"? I'm thinking literally shorted together
[18:59:08] <Jymmm> oh current , nm
[18:59:09] <furrywolf> I read an article on it a while ago... the corrosion shows up as increased series resistance. so the open-circuit voltage is fine, and the short-circuit current is also fine (the increased resistance not being enough to exceed the constant-current properties of the cells), but in the middle, the output measures crap.
[18:59:19] <furrywolf> short circuit voltage is zero volts, and not very useful. :P
[18:59:43] <furrywolf> short-circuit current is given on the sticker on the back of the panels, as is open-circuit voltage. note the current varries greatly with insolation, and the voltage greatly with temperature.
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[19:00:53] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I use a server blower for load testing. man it can suck a batery dry in no time =)
[19:01:08] <Jymmm> 1.4 A in a 3" package
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[19:01:28] <furrywolf> yes, and that's not very useful for testing a panel that'll out out 7A in the sun.
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[19:01:37] <furrywolf> it'll make sure it's not obviously toasted, of course.
[19:01:45] <Jymmm> and then listen to the whine as things change =)
[19:02:02] <Jymmm> I have 8 of them =)
[19:02:07] <furrywolf> also, make sure it likes running on 20V. :P
[19:02:38] <furrywolf> if you plan on doing solar panel testing, at least RTFM enough to know what the voltage-current curve looks like, how mppt works, etc.
[19:02:44] <Jymmm> the blowers, oh yeah, they do, and were free so I dont care
[19:03:29] <furrywolf> bbl, need to try running some errands... I haven't been shopping in two weeks care of my back...
[19:03:51] <Jymmm> What does MTTP have to do with testing raw panels?
[19:03:54] <Jymmm> okey dokey
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[19:04:16] <Jymmm> I'm RTFM already =)
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[19:05:31] <furrywolf> you're not going to usefully measure the maximum power unless you balance your test load on the maximum power point. :P
[19:05:31] <furrywolf> bbl
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[19:08:25] <SpeedEvil> Maximum peak power is simply calcuable to open-circuit voltage and short current
[19:08:53] <SpeedEvil> you just multiply those two, and then take off about 8%, and you've got the max power point.
[19:09:44] <Jymmm> Ok, what is "short circuit current? Just under some load?
[19:10:05] <SpeedEvil> that is the current you get when you put a DMM on amps amps and measure the current
[19:10:07] <SpeedEvil> At ~0V
[19:11:02] <Jymmm> Just short the panel out?
[19:11:21] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:11:35] <SpeedEvil> It does no harm as long as it's not shaded, or there are internal protection diodes
[19:12:43] <Jymmm> so basically just hook up an ampmeter to the panel = short circuit current
[19:12:53] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:13:07] <Jymmm> I can do that =)
[19:13:10] <SpeedEvil> Or you can just assume 14% efficiency, and divide by voltage
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[19:14:09] <Jymmm> ... full sun.
[19:15:09] <Jymmm> If I can get 140W out of two 100W panels, I'd be happy.
[19:15:28] <Jymmm> peak, 110W nominal.
[19:17:20] <Jymmm> I need a bunch of DPDT switches, and I have a bag of SPST brand new. *sigh*
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[19:18:54] <SolarNRG> hi everybody
[19:19:09] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, glue them together
[19:19:11] <SolarNRG> can someone please explain to me the difference between a vacuum pump and a centrifugal pump?
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[19:21:04] <Tom_itx> http://empoweringpumps.com/differences-centrifugal-pumps-vs-positive-displacement-pumps/
[19:21:50] <SolarNRG> i got a cm2-40 some dude sold me on the cheap i wanna know if it can suck air out of a cylinder for my delrin gear casting in the microwave
[19:22:08] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: Err - why wouldn't you get 200W out of 2*100W panels?
[19:22:25] <SolarNRG> oxygen's a pain in the ass when dealing with plastics at hi temp I wanna make a partial vacuum the dude said it was a vacuum pump but now I'm thinking its a water pump and I got had
[19:22:42] <SpeedEvil> centrifugal pumps will in general not work
[19:22:48] <SpeedEvil> For most reasonable definitions.
[19:22:58] <SpeedEvil> Vacuum cleaners are centrifugal pumps too
[19:23:13] <SpeedEvil> use an inert gas to purge
[19:23:19] <SolarNRG> so even if I rigged up the vacuum cleaner to the nukebox it still wouldn't work
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[19:23:45] <PCW> yes there are vacuum pumps that are not positive displacement (High vacuum also like Turbo molecular pumps)
[19:24:06] <SolarNRG> what sort of shop would sell what I need?
[19:24:16] <Tom_itx> wonder where screw drive pumps would fall as far as classification
[19:24:33] <SpeedEvil> You can't evacuate a microwave oven, it will collapse
[19:24:34] <SolarNRG> I mean I've seen ppl modify fridge compressors to do what I want
[19:24:39] <PCW> but you need a positive displacement pump (or a water aspirator if you dont mind wasting water)
[19:25:04] <SolarNRG> no I'm evacuating the nukebox within the microwave I have the door OFF and I'm turingin it on inside a metal shed I'm not in when I remotely activate the switch in the kitchen
[19:25:23] <SolarNRG> I got the door stopper stuck in the hole so it'll still go on
[19:25:31] <SolarNRG> you REALLY don't wanna be around this thing when it's on
[19:26:00] <SolarNRG> I'm a long way from broomhandle
[19:26:31] <SolarNRG> also air tends to get into delrin and it makes it weaker
[19:26:39] <SolarNRG> so I want ALL gases out of the nukebox
[19:27:12] <Tom_itx> hope the box doesn't collapse under a vaccuum
[19:27:23] <SolarNRG> its 2 inch thick ceramic, no it wont'
[19:27:29] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[19:28:01] <PCW> A refrigerator pump will work but they get oil everywhere (and I hesitate to give any advice to someone running microwave over with the door off)
[19:28:03] <SolarNRG> this ceramic is microwave permeable yet infrared insulative
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[19:28:33] <SolarNRG> I tend to have sensitive equipment OUTSIDE the shed and channel things under the shed via the hole underneath with ceramic blocks shielding what I need to
[19:28:41] <SolarNRG> Tried a webcam in there but it died after a few tests
[19:28:47] <SolarNRG> so I'm now doign it blind,
[19:31:20] <PCW> get too close and you _will_ be doing it blind
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[19:31:35] <SolarNRG> PCW, LOL no $#!T
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[19:31:59] <SolarNRG> This microwave you WOULD NOT have in your kitchen put it that way
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[19:34:29] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: the door off makes it suck to heat things
[19:35:12] <Rab> SolarNRG, there's a very common old car AC compressor that has a separate oiling system and can also work as a vacuum pump: http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/yorkair.html
[19:35:22] <PetefromTn_> Well I THINK I have got the overall surface area of these parts I need to machine at .127 sq ft.
[19:35:26] <SolarNRG> SpeedEvil, well there's like a 60mm hole in the door, not completely off
[19:35:45] <SolarNRG> but yeah I appreciate what you're saying, it's still taken me a good hour and a half just to reach like 500 degrees
[19:35:49] <Rab> I've owned a bunch of old Volvos with the York compressors, still have one I pulled out somewhere around here.
[19:36:13] <PetefromTn_> so now I am trying to use an online calculator to determine how much amperage and voltage to put into them in the anodizing bath
[19:36:18] <SpeedEvil> I need to do a build and writeup on micro-kilns
[19:36:22] <SolarNRG> Is there any way I can convert this centrifugal pump into a vacuum pump, how hard would it be?
[19:36:28] <PetefromTn_> Oops sorry .1755 sq ft.
[19:37:03] <Rab> SolarNRG, a centrifugal pump doesn't have a positive seal so it can't hold vacuum.
[19:37:19] <PetefromTn_> http://ndhsubmersiblescience.com/ano/720rule.html using this calculator but not sure of some of the parameters
[19:37:24] <Rab> You can generate suction, but only while the pump is active.
[19:38:17] <SpeedEvil> Rab: Fun fact. Big jet engines get ~15:1 compression
[19:38:57] <Rab> SpeedEvil, that's what I get for making an absolute claim.
[19:39:26] <Rab> But if the engine stops, I don't think it will hold any pressure.
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[19:41:25] <SpeedEvil> Nope.
[19:42:04] <SpeedEvil> I guess you could make a 'turbine' vacuum pump to go all teh way to atmosphere. It'd be stupidly inefficient at small scales
[19:43:10] <SolarNRG> rab can I not just disassemble it and reverse the seal?
[19:43:26] <SpeedEvil> There is no seal
[19:43:28] <SolarNRG> that seems to be the main theme on all these diy youtube vis
[19:43:44] <SpeedEvil> - on centrifugal pumps
[19:44:01] <SolarNRG> bicycle pump with valve removed and a really really long hose?
[19:44:10] <Rab> SpeedEvil, it's essentially just a fan.
[19:44:19] <SolarNRG> so's a vacuum cleaner
[19:44:20] <SpeedEvil> Rab: Sure.
[19:44:25] <SolarNRG> that's essentially a glorified fan
[19:44:30] <Rab> Er, meant for SolarNRG.
[19:44:35] <SpeedEvil> ah
[19:45:11] <XXCoder> nothing preventing someone from adding one way air valve
[19:45:28] <SolarNRG> xxcoder, go on?
[19:45:35] <Rab> Duck-bill valve?
[19:45:40] <SolarNRG> like on a bicycle innertube?
[19:46:08] <XXCoder> not engineer but it seems easy enough to add it
[19:46:10] <Rab> http://www.minivalve.com/newsite/index.php/en/by-type/duckbill-valves/how-they-work
[19:46:16] <XXCoder> im sure people here can figure it out
[19:46:47] <Rab> Cheap and widely available, seems like they're mostly intended for fluids.
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[19:47:18] <SolarNRG> i'm dealing with gases here, fluids are what I wanna keed, i.e. super hot plastic
[19:47:25] <SolarNRG> *keep
[19:48:06] <Rab> These are the grossest images I've seen on the internet today: http://www.tideflex.com/tf/
[19:48:30] <XXCoder> example https://www.google.com/shopping/product/14977156670709795018 possibly will work
[19:49:25] <SolarNRG> so you're telling me I have two of those on the centrifuge pump in the correct way it'll act like a vacuum pump, right?
[19:49:38] <Rab> I think that valve would present too much restriction.
[19:50:15] <tiwake> SolarNRG: did you see the NRG video?
[19:50:16] <XXCoder> yea thats why I said example, I dont know what he needs enough to find specific one
[19:50:21] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Isn't that where the efficiency rating comes into play?
[19:50:38] <tiwake> SolarNRG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRMziW4922g
[19:50:57] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Thanks, why didn't I think of that! ;)
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[19:57:06] <SolarNRG> tiwake, no I haven;t but I'm glad I have now, I've been using this handle for the best part of a decade actually, I was trying to be kewel
[19:59:12] <tiwake> SolarNRG: lol
[19:59:24] <tiwake> SolarNRG: there is a PMV version of it too
[19:59:36] <tiwake> SolarNRG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugfCkqXdBok
[19:59:57] <tiwake> its cool in my book :)
[19:59:58] <SolarNRG> seems like a pi$$ take of all those kidz energy drinks like monster, kool aid, mountain dew and all the diabetes inducing narcotics they push
[20:03:34] <SolarNRG> Gosh this kitten I rescued out of my metal pipes pile has grown quickly
[20:04:04] <SolarNRG> What that poor kitten was doing there in the first place I have no idea, but we washed her up and fed her and looked after her now she's a member of the NRG family :)
[20:04:17] <SolarNRG> my daughter loves teasing her unfortunately
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[20:20:46] <SolarNRG> watching night at the musem thanx 4 ur help guys!
[20:20:48] <SolarNRG> l8rs
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[20:36:34] <MrSunshine> http://postimg.org/gallery/2imo828xk/06a32fe1/ casting pattern almost directly out of the machine, should have made the dowel holes in the machine tho as i got it like 0.1 - 0.2mm off when i drilled the holes =)
[20:37:08] <MrSunshine> i frekkin love my cnc and cant think of how i managed life without it before =)
[20:38:37] <XXCoder> :)
[20:39:01] <XXCoder> your outside looks rainty
[20:39:04] <XXCoder> rainy
[20:40:12] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: 22:00 just about there
[20:40:46] <XXCoder> 10 pm hmm ok
[20:41:02] <MrSunshine> slap some paint on those badboys and get them slick tomorrow maybe and im ready to cast, got a perfect shakeout of a couple of cores also =)
[20:41:16] <PetefromTn_> what are they?
[20:41:30] <MrSunshine> aparently very important how mush water glass there is in it to bind together but not bind to the form =)
[20:41:44] <MrSunshine> PetefromTn_: 3 way compressed air cooling for the cnc router =)
[20:41:48] <MrSunshine> casting pattern
[20:42:03] <XXCoder> link that other one, for inside core
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[20:43:01] <PetefromTn_> cool
[20:46:03] <MrSunshine> http://postimg.org/gallery/3gq0yjlnk/d5fbb77c/ core pattern and how the core sits in the casting pattern =)
[20:46:37] <XXCoder> I see you repaired it now
[20:46:50] <XXCoder> nice :) well gonna go later
[20:47:25] <MrSunshine> yeah made glue from water glass and zink oxide ... very sticky stuff =)
[20:47:36] <MrSunshine> its like it was solid even tho i had like 10 breaks in it before i was done :P
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[21:00:13] <JT-STL> What's up
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[21:03:46] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:43:32] <SpeedEvil> I am enjoying a bananna and coffee
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[22:27:09] <furrywolf> meh! I washed the grease out of the generator with the socket in the pullstart, and now it has no spark. which is odd, these units are usually completely waterproof. must have a bad plug seal or something...
[22:27:13] <furrywolf> got it in the sun drying now
[22:30:57] <furrywolf> as a note, I've included ALL eu2000is are filled with grease. the way they're built, there pretty much isn't any way to do an oil change without spilling half the used oil inside the unit, where it puddles and coats everything, and gets blown by the cooling fan all over everything...
[22:31:03] <furrywolf> s/included/concluded
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[22:33:38] <furrywolf> if it doesn't develop spark in a couple hours I'll start actually caring.
[22:40:39] <Jymmm> furrywolf: solution
[22:40:52] <toastydeath> solution? ether. solution of ether. FIRE. fire on all the things.
[22:41:16] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I LOVE this thing... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-EU1000i-EU2000i-GENERATOR-NO-MESS-OIL-CHANGE-/230564791455?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35aebb849f
[22:41:44] <Jymmm> furrywolf: It even snaps in the left side for storageif you like
[22:42:20] <Jymmm> furrywolf: zero mess
[22:42:58] <Jymmm> furrywolf: maybe you could drill our a spare oil cap and add a tube/spout to it