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[01:43:31] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/F5XpBmt.jpg
[01:43:31] <zeeshan|2> :D
[01:43:36] <zeeshan|2> found a big gun
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[01:49:05] <[cube]> lol
[01:49:08] <PetefromTn_> rednecks....
[01:49:12] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[01:49:17] <[cube]> dont trepass on that property
[01:49:22] <zeeshan|2> too bad
[01:49:22] <zeeshan|2> i did
[01:49:23] <zeeshan|2> lol
[01:50:17] <[cube]> http://i.imgur.com/FuhClqE.jpg
[01:50:30] <[cube]> before you say anything, it's a PROTOTYPE K :P
[01:50:38] <zeeshan|2> what is this contraption
[01:50:48] <[cube]> haha
[01:51:25] <[cube]> somethign i rigged up in a couple hours to not have backpain
[01:51:51] <zeeshan|2> to surf the web?
[01:52:01] <[cube]> programming
[01:52:12] <[cube]> web dev etc
[01:53:45] <[cube]> works pretty well :P
[01:54:05] <[cube]> i can sit in it comfortably for like 2-3 hrs at a time
[01:54:45] <zeeshan|2> nice
[01:54:46] <zeeshan|2> looks comfy
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[02:04:01] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/261943570506?
[02:04:01] <zeeshan|2> :]
[02:04:05] <zeeshan|2> buy it
[02:05:36] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/kojxDAq.jpg
[02:05:38] <zeeshan|2> what are these?
[02:05:44] <zeeshan|2> dies for a geometric tapping hjead?
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[02:06:25] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/sxuIYcj.jpg
[02:06:27] <zeeshan|2> what about these
[02:06:33] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/3AifFUY.jpg and that
[02:06:37] <zeeshan|2> these are the things i cant figure out :P
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[02:24:04] <Tom_L> sandvik has an ap for that:
http://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-us/knowledge/calculators_and_software/apps_for_download/pages/default.aspx?utm_source=apsis&utm_medium=email&utm_content=unspecified&utm_campaign=MonthlyNewsletter2015-06-24_US
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[02:27:10] <PetefromTn_> Damn my internet has slowed to a freakin' crawl all afternoon... Whose ass do I have to kick to get it fixed LOL
[02:27:48] <Tom_itx> someone is after your router
[02:28:12] <PetefromTn_> hell they can have it just bring back the high speed hehe
[02:29:16] <Tom_itx> well i repaired one board, now able to test the other one, it's shot too
[02:30:32] <Tom_itx> just when i was done with the control too
[02:31:00] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: how do you blow these boards up
[02:31:00] <zeeshan|2> !
[02:31:13] <Tom_itx> bad chinese reg this time
[02:31:25] <Tom_itx> 5v went to 23
[02:31:32] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: we have had all sorts of issues with ATT lately. Who is your ISP?
[02:31:49] <PetefromTn_> Charter Cable
[02:33:10] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/261943624953?
[02:33:14] <zeeshan|2> i almost dont wanna sell this indicator set
[02:33:16] <zeeshan|2> i have too many :/
[02:33:17] <CaptHindsight> DNS redirects, SSL instability, slow speeds, lots of unsynced IRC packets, etc etc
[02:33:28] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, replaced all 3 of the TSSOP 56 pin buss switch chips on the 7i90, now it's good
[02:33:36] <zeeshan|2> howd you blow em
[02:33:51] <Tom_itx> ^^
[02:34:02] <zeeshan|2> you didnt answer my q
[02:34:06] <zeeshan|2> 5v went to 23
[02:34:12] <zeeshan|2> a vreg randomly does that? :p
[02:34:14] <Tom_itx> well those chips don't like 23v
[02:34:19] <Tom_itx> it did
[02:34:22] <zeeshan|2> ;/
[02:34:33] <Tom_itx> i was ready to button the control up and make chips
[02:34:57] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/dGzYpvI.jpg
[02:34:59] <zeeshan|2> what the heck is this
[02:35:05] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/Mlsgc9u.jpg
[02:35:12] <zeeshan|2> found it in a toolbox i bought
[02:35:28] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight I don't understand any of that but it is slow as molasses running uphill right now LOL
[02:35:51] <Tom_itx> i keep random crap in my toolbox too so when i'm gone they'll look at it and wonder WTF
[02:36:46] <zeeshan|2> lol
[02:38:00] <Tom_itx> i could switch back to the 7i47 but then i'd have to wire in the board you gave me again
[02:38:20] <zeeshan|2> oh noes
[02:38:31] <Tom_itx> it worked ok
[02:38:46] <Tom_itx> i wanted to try the spindle out on the 7i47s though
[02:38:55] <Tom_itx> it was working well really
[02:39:18] <Tom_itx> signed my kid up for Catia classes today
[02:39:23] <Tom_itx> he was pretty stoked
[02:39:53] <zeeshan|2> how old
[02:39:58] <Tom_itx> HS
[02:40:10] <zeeshan|2> nice thqt he's into it
[02:40:29] <Tom_itx> it's about all this town uses for cad nowdays
[02:40:44] <Tom_itx> they teach solidworks and mastercam too
[02:41:12] <Tom_itx> i should sign up myself so i can get the latest solidworks student
[02:42:10] <zeeshan|2> i really like the patterning changes in 2014
[02:42:11] <zeeshan|2> er
[02:42:12] <zeeshan|2> 2015
[02:44:02] <jdh> they have the classes in HS?
[02:44:41] <Tom_itx> Vo tech
[02:44:55] <Tom_itx> he's able to take college courses now
[02:45:30] <jdh> no SW classes here that I could find
[02:45:54] <Tom_itx> they teach it here as part of the machining courses
[02:46:22] <Tom_itx> catia is separate from that
[02:46:49] <jdh> I would never have a place to use catia
[02:47:08] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't either except all the aircraft use it now
[02:47:41] <Tom_itx> 1st sem, part design & sketcher and assembly design
[02:47:57] <Tom_itx> 2nd sem, drafting & prismatic machining
[02:49:35] <Tom_itx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRrf1hvBBI8
[02:49:41] <Tom_itx> it looks alot like all the others
[02:55:26] <PetefromTn_> any of you guys ever replaced a micro usb charging port?
[02:55:29] <tjtr33> ^^^ that video has the most annoying soundtrack :)
[02:55:41] <Tom_itx> good i have sound off then :)
[02:56:08] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ why do you ask?
[02:58:12] <PetefromTn_> aah both of my kids got some of those Samsung Galaxy tab3 tablets about a year or so ago and now both of them won't charge because they have not been careful with the charging chords etc etc.
[02:59:06] <Tom_itx> it's gotta be better than the one on the surface pro
[02:59:27] <PetefromTn_> apparently they are not the nice kind that just has a standalone little board and a cable to replace they are actually soldered directly to the main power distribution board and watching a video online some guy used a directed air heat gun to remove it
[02:59:50] <Tom_itx> yeah you'd better get someone to fix that for you
[03:00:06] <Tom_itx> it's pretty cramped on those boards
[03:00:33] <Tom_itx> iirc 5 terminals and the frame lugs
[03:00:47] <Tom_itx> similar to the mini but smaller
[03:00:49] <tjtr33> PetefromTn_,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fcqUXtFVQo beware crap music
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[03:01:49] <PetefromTn_> yeah that one I saw but that is not the one they have here. It is actually the Samsung Galaxy tab3 7" model...
[03:02:08] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMgRErOBPug
[03:02:48] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/sch/xull1x/m.html?item=261943638017&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
[03:02:51] <zeeshan|2> buy my stuff!!
[03:03:23] <PetefromTn_> LOL Zeeshan is whoring out his ebay junk
[03:03:33] <zeeshan|2> lol
[03:04:46] <zeeshan|2> im trying to clean up
[03:04:48] <zeeshan|2> all extra stuff
[03:06:43] <PetefromTn_> so does it have alignment pins or do you have to heat gun solder the damn thing down and try to align it at the same damn time?
[03:07:20] <Tom_itx> depends on the mfg
[03:07:29] <Tom_itx> some have tits for alignment, some don't
[03:07:39] <PetefromTn_> it is apparently the exact same one as in that videp
[03:07:47] <Tom_itx> didn't click
[03:11:06] <Tom_itx> that one doesn't appear to have them
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[03:11:49] <Tom_itx> it's pretty easy to bridge the contacts on those
[03:12:10] <Tom_itx> doesn't look very accessable
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[03:13:48] <zeeshan> ??
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[03:18:56] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-Micro-USB-Charging-Port-Samsung-Galaxy-Tab-3-7-0-SM-T210R-Tablet-Connector-/221503713681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3392a67191
[03:19:05] <PetefromTn_> Looks like it does have some sort of alignment pins..
[03:20:22] <PetefromTn_> In the video is appeared the guy used some sort of flux before setting the new port. Any idea what you would use? or is it even flux?
[03:21:33] <PetefromTn_> they also used some sort of heat shield tape on it.
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[03:26:47] <tjtr33> PetefromTn_,
http://sperepuga.com/video/icXmTO2tnEM the port has 4 ears and pcb has 4 holes for them BUT its a tricky repair even with special tools
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[03:28:05] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMgRErOBPug This is pretty much what needs to happen
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[03:30:23] <PetefromTn_> all the contacts are on the back tho right.
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[03:37:37] <Tom_itx> yes
[03:38:24] <Tom_itx> the flux is rosin core flux
[03:38:27] <Tom_itx> probably
[03:38:38] <PetefromTn_> my biggest concern is just overheating the rest of the board
[03:38:39] <Tom_itx> unless you'd rather solder it RoHs
[03:39:25] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/scope/scope2.jpg
[03:39:34] <Tom_itx> like that flux pen lower right by the green pad
[03:39:56] <Tom_itx> felt tip flux pen
[03:40:14] <Tom_itx> you want to use that definitely
[03:41:06] <PetefromTn_> green pad
[03:41:26] <Tom_itx> laying by the cutting board
[03:42:13] <PetefromTn_> ok
[03:43:13] <PetefromTn_> gotta finish probing this part be back in a bit gonna think about wether i want to attempt this...
[03:43:49] <Tom_itx> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/835-P/473-1033-ND/949475
[03:43:54] <Tom_itx> or such
[03:44:30] <Tom_itx> if you haven't done SMT, i wouldn't suggest trying that
[03:45:04] <Tom_itx> you can easily pull the traces off the board
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[04:43:04] <PetefromTn_> jeez man manually probing 20 holes in a part and recording their positional informaiton on a hand drawing is DEFINITELY the hard way to do things LOL.. But I got it done now and I can create a drawing in CAD and do some milling here on this part finally LOL
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[05:16:41] <fdarling> hi, is anyone awake that is familiar with backlash compensation?
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[05:56:02] <archivist> fdarling, just ask the real question
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[06:24:03] <fdarling> archivist: I have backlash compensation enabled because there is play not in my ballscrew, but in my bearing block. This allows the screw to push/pull itself using the ballnut. I cannot at the moment eliminate this
[06:24:54] <fdarling> archivist: the backlash compensation works fine when commanding moves, if you jog it 1 thousandth at a time in one direction you can see the handle moving consistent degrees, and if you reverse it'll jump a big angle then small movements once again
[06:25:09] <fdarling> archivist: I calibrate it with a sensitive digital travel indicator
[06:25:37] <archivist> it is always better to fix the root problem if you can
[06:25:44] <fdarling> archivist: anyways, this brings me to the issue I'm trying to solve though. I am using locked antiphase DC brushed servos with encoders, so I do have feedback on the rotation of the shaft
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[06:26:34] <fdarling> archivist: when I disable power in EMC2 and relax the servos, I can manually move the handwheels and the encoders and the software "DRO" changes accordingly since the encoders are still operational
[06:27:50] <fdarling> archivist: however, there is no backlash compensation. In other words, wiggling the handwheel shows small immediate changes in the DRO rather than having hysteresis where upon changing direction the encoder integer count would indeed change, but it wouldn't change the DRO until you got out of the "dead zone"
[06:27:56] <fdarling> archivist: do you see what I'm after?
[06:28:38] <fdarling> archivist: this is aggravating because I often use the manual handwheels to do zero'ing, but I can be off due to the backlash (and possibly worse, an stagnant backlash compensation count)
[06:29:29] <fdarling> archivist: yes, it would be great if I could get zero backlash in my system, but it will always be present to some degree no matter what I do. The issue here is that I want the "DRO" to be aware of the backlash and do compensation
[06:30:40] <fdarling> archivist: I understand that the motion planner needs to have the raw encoder value vs the backlash to do the quick compensation movements, but I also want the actual position tracking to be aware as well. I don't understand the "order of operations" internal to LinuxCNC well enough to know if this can be done, and how easily
[06:30:46] <fdarling> archivist: is this all making sense?
[06:31:23] <archivist> I done remember anyone else asking for that, I always move in the correct direction to make sure the backlash is removed
[06:31:29] <archivist> dont
[06:32:19] <fdarling> archivist: manually doing things, of course you compensate for backlash in your head. If you want to back up a little, you back up a lot then re-approach
[06:32:55] <fdarling> archivist: the problem is that the DRO isn't aware of this, when it easily could be with some basic math/logic
[06:34:11] <fdarling> archivist: whenever it sees the encoder count changing direction, "eat" the difference until the "eaten" difference saturates at +/- some calibrated value, then allow the numbers to start changing
[06:34:22] <archivist> if you are used to a manual with backlash you always approach having taken up the backlash, I do the same in gcode
[06:34:37] <fdarling> archivist: I can imagine some changing of up/down counters with reset logic and such to get this done, but I'm not sure where I could insert this that it would be safe and play nice with the motion planner
[06:35:22] <fdarling> archivist: you're basically saying to work around this issue, regardless of best practices of approaching, the DRO is still inconsistent here
[06:36:19] <fdarling> archivist: if the DRO displays 0.010 and I have 0.003 of backlash and was already going positive, then if I command go to 0.011 it simply goes 1 thou "raw" and the DRO shows 0.011
[06:36:33] <archivist> I work around because there is also machine spring, and other machine errors
[06:37:06] <fdarling> archivist: if I tell it go back to 0.010, the "raw" would go down to 0.007 since it's actually traveling 4 thou, 3 for compensation then 1 commanded
[06:37:15] <archivist> add a spring to remove that backlash if you can
[06:37:22] <fdarling> archivist: but it instead shows 0.010 because in this case the DRO is aware that the motion planner is compensating, you know?
[06:37:44] <fdarling> archivist: however, if I *manually* move it back 4 thou, it shows 0.007 not 0.010. This is because it is unaware
[06:37:50] <fdarling> archivist: I want the DRO to be aware in *both* cases
[06:38:08] <fdarling> archivist: do you see what I'm saying?
[06:38:20] <fdarling> archivist: regardless of anything else, there is a software inconsistency here
[06:39:30] <fdarling> archivist: I'm dealing with a CNC retrofit Bridgeport knee mill by the way, it's not a desktop router
[06:39:32] <archivist> I see that you dont realise the mechanics of correction cannot be applied until a full reversal occurs, which is done after the dro
[06:39:56] <fdarling> archivist: no I do realise, what I'm saying is that the encoder doesn't have play in it
[06:40:11] <fdarling> archivist: the mechanics after that layer do though
[06:40:19] <archivist> fix your mechanical error to get good quality circles too
[06:40:26] <fdarling> archivist: so the feedback, being on the encoder, sensitively aware of direction reversals
[06:41:08] <archivist> the encoder has started reverse but the table has not, it is in no mans land
[06:41:14] <fdarling> archivist: it can monitor for reversals and wait for the slack to be taken up before allowing the actual position (DRO) to start following along
[06:41:29] <fdarling> archivist: exactly! no man's land! so I don't want the DRO to have it's values change yet
[06:41:53] <fdarling> archivist: obviously this doesn't take into account the fact that you could grab the table and slide it around, but neither does backlash compensation
[06:43:01] <archivist> so may I repeat, this is a mechanical error, that only scales direct on the table or fixing the nut will cure
[06:43:18] <fdarling> archivist: the backlash compensation is working beautifully
[06:43:32] <fdarling> archivist: what I am asking is to make the backlash compensation work in a more "passive" more not "active"
[06:43:45] <archivist> I dont trust it, nor should you
[06:44:06] <fdarling> archivist: make it continue functioning when the servos are manually rotated rather than commanded to, but keep the rest of the algorithm the same
[06:45:11] <fdarling> archivist: okay, do you at least understand exactly what I'm asking for?
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[06:45:26] <Deejay> moin
[06:45:31] <fdarling> hello
[06:51:28] <archivist> fdarling, I understand, but what you are asking for is probably not possible due to the position in the code where correction is applied (iirc it was added for stepper systems with acme screws)
[06:51:57] <archivist> its done at the output not the input
[06:52:10] <fdarling> archivist: okay, you do also understand that what I'm asking for is theoretically possible, but might not be possible the way LinuxCNC is currently coded, right?
[06:52:23] <fdarling> archivist: I just want to make sure we're on the same page
[06:53:02] <fdarling> archivist: if the compensation were done on the input, it would result in instability I do understand that, the motion planner needs to be aware so that slow motions can have quick compensation jerks for instance
[06:53:13] <archivist> you would need backlash compensation on the input to the encoder, a bit silly in my opinion
[06:53:53] <archivist> instead of fixing code, fix the machine :)
[06:54:19] <fdarling> archivist: but I would like it "wired" if you will in such a way that motion planner is also watching for unanticipated encoder pulsing and applying a similar algorithm to the actual position, I am just not sure how this would be structured at the moment...
[06:54:22] <archivist> I have to live with backlash on my rotary axes
[06:54:33] <fdarling> archivist: I cannot fix the machine at the moment...
[06:54:46] <fdarling> archivist: I already did once, it actually used to be a lot worse :-S
[06:54:58] <archivist> motion planner is out of action if you are turning the wheels
[06:55:22] <fdarling> archivist: then I'd like to "factor out" the backlash compensation bit so that it still functions when it's not active
[06:55:45] <fdarling> archivist: but yet still allow the motion planner to be aware of the compensation when it's occuring so it knows to do the quick motions and such (and not be confused by the dead zone)
[06:56:07] <fdarling> archivist: I'd like to talk with someone experienced in the codebase, I'll bet they'd know how to do it correctly
[06:56:23] <archivist> you would have to add a compensation to the encode comp module, better to add scales direct on the table
[06:57:13] <archivist> this is one of those please dont do it that way conversations
[06:57:27] <fdarling> archivist: again, I am not arguing the validity of backlash compensation in general, I am talking about *granted* that you're already using it, making it play nice with turning the handwheels manually
[06:57:58] <fdarling> archivist: yes, I hate it when people tell you why you shouldn't be doing what you're trying to do, rather than answering your question
[06:58:26] <fdarling> archivist: it's one thing to also say "by the way, don't do it that way" :-P in C++ people often want to do things in a really horrible way
[06:58:46] <archivist> I have no time for C++ either :)
[06:59:02] <archivist> or any oop language
[06:59:05] <fdarling> archivist: here is an example of a valid question in C++ that is probably a bad idea for portability and such
[06:59:30] <fdarling> archivist: let's say you have a bunch of objects or structs that are Monster structs
[06:59:56] <fdarling> archivist: they have health, x, and y variables
[07:00:06] <fdarling> you could pack it health,x,y,health,x,y,.....
[07:00:53] <fdarling> archivist: or you could do it "health,health,health,x,x,x,y,y,y" by avoiding the use of an array of structs in favor of a struct of arrays (you'd have to hardcode the array size if it were actually a struct)
[07:01:08] <fdarling> archivist: in certain cases this can make iterating faster if you're only dealing with one member of the struct at a time
[07:01:19] <fdarling> archivist: (quickly averaging the health of all the monsters for instance)
[07:01:21] <archivist> I would use a database and not mess about
[07:01:49] <fdarling> archivist: anyways, people might ask how can they have parallel arrays but still access it with C++ style object for code readability?
[07:02:14] <fdarling> archivist: and indeed there are some black magic ways you can do it that don't introduce overhead, in other words are as fast as directly accessing the arrays C style
[07:02:35] <fdarling> archivist: but you're definitely going into dangerous territory doing it that way in many cases
[07:03:22] <fdarling> archivist: you could either 1) have the object be aware of it's index, and use that with the global variables or wherever they are or 2) have the object be smart enough to "straddle" the multiple arrays
[07:03:59] <archivist> in databases we call that denormalised
[07:04:02] <fdarling> archivist: so anyways, that is obviously way off topic, but my point is
[07:04:15] <fdarling> archivist: I want answers, not advice on why I shouldn't be doing it :-P
[07:04:19] <archivist> it does not apply here
[07:04:30] <fdarling> archivist: I want the truth, I want to know whether or not it's possible, and if so how to do it
[07:04:52] <archivist> get the code and look at the encode comp
[07:05:08] <fdarling> archivist: suggesting a better way or giving advice is fine, but I still want my answer if even only for curiosity
[07:05:57] <archivist> I have to go out now, there is also #linuxcnc-devel, they may notice this conv in the logs anyway
[07:05:58] <fdarling> archivist: backlash seems to be talked about in relation to MOTION, what exactly am I looking for?
[07:06:24] <archivist> you wand it at the input side
[07:06:28] <archivist> want
[07:06:45] <archivist> this will upset a lot of code I think
[07:07:41] <fdarling> archivist: I might argue that if that's the case, the code might need some rework to be more flexible. What I'm asking for isn't illogical, it's just unconventional (rarely requested apparently)
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[07:10:54] <archivist> it is a question like, how do I jump off a cliff? and my reply is dont go there
[07:12:23] <archivist> I know that cutting forces, users leaning on the table and the phase of the moon cannot be seen by that code, only fixing the mechanics or adding scales gets the real feedback you need
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[07:16:32] <archivist> the man hours to fix the code is probably higher in code than to the mechanical fix or addition of a linear scale
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[09:32:20] <fogl> hello, does anybody know hoc should i set the hal pid if i control the heater - so no possibility to cool. The pid output is + and -, so i should somehow cut the negative part of pid loop
[09:32:33] <fogl> hello, does anybody know how should i set the hal pid if i control the heater - so no possibility to cool. The pid output is + and -, so i should somehow cut the negative part of pid loop
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[09:53:57] <archivist_herron> you do have cooling but that is passive though
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[09:59:54] <fogl> i dont understand what you mean
[10:00:46] <fogl> i have a pwm controlled heater, whet set_temp < measured_temp, the pid output goes to -1
[10:02:05] <fogl> but when set_temp > measured_temp, the pid output slowly increases, reaching positive value after quite some time
[10:02:28] <fogl> this is why the response is very slow
[10:03:56] <fogl> pasive cooling is not contrilled by pid
[10:04:02] <fogl> :)
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[10:07:30] <archivist_herron> I know, have you seen
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/44844
[10:09:04] <archivist_herron> I have just built a heating furnace/kiln and it has a one direction pid too, just takes time to get there
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[10:12:35] <malcom2073_> I limit my pid to positive using the limit module, you just have to tune it so it's a bit quicker
[10:13:02] <malcom2073_> Speaking of furnaces, does anyone know if you can anneal nichrome or kanthan resistance wire?
[10:13:11] <malcom2073_> After it's been hardened through use
[10:16:06] <archivist_herron> I imagine its a corrosion/oxide coating after use which would be the cause of cracking
[10:18:14] <malcom2073_> It's not surface cracking, it's breaking that bothers me heh
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[10:19:49] <malcom2073_> I had to bend the wire to get it out of the furnace I'm repairing, and a couple of them snapped when I did so, and I'm fairly certain the others will snap when I bend them back
[10:20:05] <archivist_herron> anything with chrome in it will have a surface oxide, I bet it gets a lot thicker with time at high temps
[10:20:48] <malcom2073_> You think it may have oxidized the whole way through?
[10:20:58] <archivist_herron> or most :)
[10:21:34] <archivist_herron> measure the resistance of a new element compared to an old one
[10:22:06] <archivist_herron> not something I have ever bothered doing yet
[10:22:29] <malcom2073_> I don't have a new element, they're expensive so I'm trying to avoid purchasing them new hh :-P
[10:22:31] <malcom2073_> heh
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[10:24:22] <archivist_herron> I used a hotplate element for my little thing for bluing steel
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[10:35:18] <malcom2073_> I wonder how well the wire will take a crimp
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[11:06:20] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/ go to Configuration Wizards and hover over them with the mouse
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[11:16:55] <malcom2073_> Very Web two point oh
[11:17:33] <malcom2073_> I like it though
[11:17:54] <jthornton> the tool tips?
[11:25:16] <malcom2073_> yeah
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[13:14:58] <shaun413> do you think its possible to CNC route foamboard?
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[13:15:42] <_methods> only if it's glued to your face
[13:15:47] <shaun413> well then.
[13:16:17] <cthompson> but, I can't glue foamboard to my face, it's not Tuesday
[13:16:38] <_methods> staple gun?
[13:16:50] <shaun413> epoxy?
[13:18:15] <cthompson> meat glue
[13:18:17] <cthompson> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EIGV7MC/
[13:18:44] <shaun413> ok
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[13:18:45] <shaun413> perf
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[13:18:59] <malcom2073_> You can bolt down foamboard, same way you nail it to a wall, with large washers
[13:19:23] <shaun413> malcom2073_, im talking about the stuff they use for the FliteTest planes
[13:19:32] <shaun413> like depron foamboad with paper over it
[13:19:37] <malcom2073_> shaun413: No clue what that is
[13:19:58] <malcom2073_> But foam board is easily cncable
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[13:20:27] <shaun413> its cellfoam with paper over it
[13:20:35] <shaun413> a ouh 1/4inch thick
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[13:21:36] <cthompson> anything that will hold still enough and not melt and gum up an end mill can theoretically be CNCed
[13:21:57] <malcom2073_> Google is your friend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2wCQVEf8lk Looks like it cuts
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[13:25:30] * furrywolf is too sore. :(
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[13:30:29] <malcom2073_> furrywolf: Break anything, or just brusing from the impact?
[13:34:00] <furrywolf> bruising, sprains
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[13:38:05] <malcom2073_> Suck
[13:38:13] <malcom2073_> Good that it was nothing worse though
[13:38:24] <furrywolf> lower back and neck are particularly bad
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[13:47:51] <archivist> get the required doctors notes so you can sue later
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[14:16:43] <jdh> I'm not an lawyer fan, but I'd call one or two
[14:17:02] <MrHindsight> yeah, better plan ahead
[14:18:02] <MrHindsight> their insurance co will will try to offer as little as possible
[14:19:07] <MrHindsight> not sure about CA but it's even difficult to find an attorney here to take on a suit like this if you don't retain them with $$
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[14:21:21] <MrHindsight> had something similar happen years ago, rear-ended by a pickup while stopped at a traffic light, the car was crumpled like a tin can into the back seat
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[14:26:28] <furrywolf> rearending someone like that should result in an immediate, permanent license revocation.
[14:27:42] <furrywolf> if you're such a bad driver that you can't notice a vehicle in front of you stopping at a normal rate, you should never be allowed on the road again.
[14:29:20] <malcom2073_> Yep
[14:30:32] <furrywolf> if they slam on the brakes and your vehicle can't stop as fast as theirs, or they pull out from a parking spot in front of you, etc, that's not your fault... but when the person in front of you normally decelerates and you simply don't notice and plow right into them without ever touching your brakes... time to get a bus pass.
[14:31:10] <_methods> i've seen TWO people rear end school buses
[14:31:13] <archivist> did the cops attend?
[14:31:28] <malcom2073_> I got rearended like that about a year after I got my license, was in a jeep. Demolished their car, put the engine in the passenger seat. $75 got mine back on the road heh
[14:31:31] <_methods> not sure how you hit a giant yellow bus
[14:31:48] <furrywolf> I saw someone rear-end a school bus. a blue toyota truck simply didn't notice the GIANT FUCKING YELLOW BUS stopped at a red light.
[14:32:13] <malcom2073_> Those safety bars the put under the school busses to prevent cars from going under them when rearending them are preventing darwanism
[14:32:25] <furrywolf> apparantly school busses have pretty sturdy rear bumpers, because the truck was prettt crunched, while the bus needed a bit of touchup paint.
[14:34:24] <furrywolf> I was on a transit bus when it hit something, but it wasn't the bus driver's fault... going around a corner, some idiot ricer in a civic was in the wrong lane... bus driver decided to scrape the parked cars rather than head-on with the honda. we all had to fill out accident reports describing what happened.
[14:37:06] <furrywolf> civic, of course, saw what happened, and stepped on the gas even more and got out of there as fast as he could.
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[14:39:16] <pcw_home> I was in a bus when some clever driver in an Accord decide to pass on the right as the bus was pulling into a stop
[14:39:17] <pcw_home> the Accord was totaled, the bus passengers hardly noticed a thing...
[14:39:58] <furrywolf> PCW: don't worry about hurrying with the 7i76e... mill project is cancelled for the time being.
[14:40:07] <furrywolf> given as I now have no car, no money, and can't move.
[14:40:39] <archivist> person who hit you should be paying real soon
[14:40:44] <furrywolf> uh-huh.
[14:41:03] <furrywolf> I'm not going to hold my breath.
[14:41:26] <archivist> tell the the costs rise with any payment delay :)
[14:41:31] <archivist> them
[14:41:31] <furrywolf> and even if they do pay, the amount they pay for the car is probably going to be 1/10th of what it'll cost to replace it with a similar one.
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[14:41:59] <furrywolf> and I can't work, and it's not going to be easy getting lost wages from them.
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[14:42:16] <pcw_home> Sorry about your accident, I worry going to work having seen multiple instances of people on cell phones sailing through
[14:42:18] <pcw_home> red lights on cross streets on the way
[14:44:45] <malcom2073_> Buddy of mine is a trucker so he's on the road all the time, and he says that way over half of the people he sees on the road have cell phones on their ears
[14:45:34] <furrywolf> I don't mind the ones on their ears nearly as much as the ones on the steering wheel. let's drive while looking down and texting!
[14:46:42] <furrywolf> the worst I've seen, however, was a guy with a newspaper spread over the steering wheel, blocking most of the windshield, that he was looking down at while driving... and kept reading straight through a stop sign.
[14:47:55] <Roguish> young girls are the absolute most dangerous drivers on the road. totally oblivious. and feel immortal.
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[14:48:40] <furrywolf> I haven't noticed that. I've noticed the exact opposite. People over 60 are the absolute worst drivers on the road.
[14:48:45] <Roguish> 2nd worst are contractors in pickup trucks racing to a job.......
[14:48:56] <Rab> Use of all handheld devices while operating a vehicle or bicycle is prohibited here.
[14:48:59] <furrywolf> heh. I've never seen an accident caused by a commercial vehicle of any kind.
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[14:49:21] <furrywolf> I've seen lots of accidents involving commercial vehicles... but not caused by them.
[14:51:03] <malcom2073_> Shame is, even if it isn't their fault, a lot of times they'll still lose their jobs.
[14:51:03] <furrywolf> most accidents I've seen here are caused by senility, cell phone use, drug/alcohol use, and stupidity.
[14:51:31] <furrywolf> senility it waaay up on the list, to the point where I think we need some age-related increasing of driving tests.
[14:52:59] <furrywolf> the woman that totalled my car was probably 60
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[14:55:59] <Roguish> my 80 something neighbor just had her 2nd knee replacement, and this morning hobbled out to her car with a walker and got in to drive ..... couldn't believe it.
[14:56:35] <malcom2073_> People have serious issues admitting their own fallacies, especially as you get older
[14:57:10] <Roguish> giving up the license is a huge thing, loss of independence and all.
[14:57:26] <furrywolf> not being a danger to others is important.
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[14:58:11] <malcom2073_> The first hint I get that my reaction times have slowed to the point of being dangerous, I'm giving mine up. I don't want someones death on my head because I was too stubborn to admit it
[14:58:31] <furrywolf> someone I know once saw a woman driving so poorly that she followed her back to her house, contacted her family, and told them that she was absolutely in no circumstances to be allowed behind the wheel of a car again.
[14:58:44] <Roguish> gotta think about all the innocent people on the road, not just one's self. still difficult
[14:58:50] <furrywolf> they agreed and took her keys from here.
[14:58:52] <furrywolf> from her
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[15:01:57] <furrywolf> I'm going to try to get my other subaru to the muffler shop today... I have to have a car to drive.
[15:02:25] <furrywolf> I can barely drive, and the person who'd be helping me can either help me today, or next wednesday... so want to try to get it done today.
[15:02:48] <Roguish> good luck. hang in there.....
[15:03:21] <furrywolf> also need an alignment... it's pulling so badly you have to crank the wheel about 90 degrees left to go straight when you step on the gas. heh.
[15:04:04] <furrywolf> I replaced the steering rack and installed a lift kit, and it rather needs an alignment after either of those, and really needs one after both.
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[15:10:39] <MrHindsight> I no longer drive small cars or motorcycles since people don't see me
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[15:11:45] <ssi> this is why I stick to airplanes :P
[15:11:52] <ssi> fewer killer grandmas in the sky
[15:11:59] <MrHindsight> I used to get backed into when I had a Red Alfa Spyder even in parking lots. People are blind yet they still hold onto their licenses somehow.
[15:12:14] <DaViruz> ssi: how's the statistics doing on homebuilt?
[15:12:27] <ssi> EAB is worse than GA, and GA is worse than part 121
[15:12:33] <ssi> but overall I'd say it's safer than driving :)
[15:12:39] <MrHindsight> heh, has grandma rear end me in the Spyder at a stop light
[15:12:42] <shaun413> whats the easiest material to start milling with on a cnc router?
[15:12:48] <shaun413> acryllic, wood?
[15:12:54] <MrHindsight> has/had
[15:12:56] <archivist> air
[15:12:56] <DaViruz> don't know what EAB or 121 is :(
[15:13:06] <shaun413> air?
[15:13:07] <ssi> experimental - amateur built
[15:13:14] <ssi> 121 is air carrier, ie Delta
[15:13:19] <DaViruz> oh.
[15:13:38] <archivist> cut air before you cut any material
[15:13:41] <furrywolf> MrHindsight: see above about people not seeing giant yellow school busses.
[15:13:56] <Rab> archivist, that's a very insightful answer.
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[15:14:08] <malcom2073_> +1 for cutting aire
[15:14:10] <malcom2073_> air*
[15:14:19] <shaun413> ok, any specific shape?
[15:14:20] <malcom2073_> I cut air before every cut
[15:14:25] <ssi> "Most surprising looking at the data was that the number one cause of EAB accidents involved engine failure or loss of engine power, usually on the very first test flight or one of the first test flights, and often caused by disrupted fuel flow. The second leading cause of EAB accidents was loss of control, but here again there was a surprise in the data: Unlike loss of control accidents involving certified aircraft, which usually happen in the traffic
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[15:14:32] <malcom2073_> Just to make sure the machine does what I expect, without material in the way heh
[15:14:37] <archivist> I dev my gcode on air
[15:14:39] <ssi> I've done a test flight almost every day for the last two weeks :P
[15:14:46] <ssi> have had the carburetor on and off almost a dozen times
[15:14:46] <furrywolf> I almost backed into some little fiat thing once... it stopped behind my box truck, and fit entirely behind it. wasn't visible in either mirror. I only stopped because they hit the horn.
[15:14:59] <ssi> so far no loss incidents :)
[15:15:03] <ssi> loss of power
[15:15:09] <furrywolf> if you have a tiny little worthless shitbox car, DON'T PULL BEHIND A REVERSING BOX TRUCK. really.
[15:15:45] <Rab> I would say once you gain an understanding of your machine and toolchain by cutting on air, wood is pretty forgiving.
[15:16:14] <furrywolf> if your vehicle is 4ft wide, and the vehicle in front of you is 8ft wide...
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[15:16:29] <Rab> Especially MDF or particle board.
[15:16:53] <DaViruz> styrofoam makes a mess, but it's veery forgiving
[15:17:15] <DaViruz> unless you've glued a bunch of wood spars in it and then forget about them
[15:17:16] <Roguish> shaun413: mdf is good for practice. hard on cutters, but not hard on the machine.
[15:17:23] <shaun413> ill try foam
[15:17:29] <shaun413> i have a lot of acryllic..
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[15:17:42] <furrywolf> aircraft... putting the mental into experimental.
[15:18:00] <ssi> yep
[15:18:03] <Rab> shaun413, in terms of specific shapes, start with 2D squares and concentric circles which you can measure and characterize your system's geometry, backlash, and reproducibility.
[15:18:09] <ssi> at least it doesn't have that damn subaru on it anymore :P
[15:18:20] <shaun413> ok
[15:18:21] <ssi> THAT was an accident waiting to happen
[15:18:24] <ssi> ...and then it happened
[15:18:27] <ssi> which is why I have it now :D
[15:18:32] <DaViruz> :D
[15:18:50] <MrHindsight> furrywolf: yeah, it's difficult to see where you're going when you're not looking
[15:19:38] <furrywolf> Of all the respondents, 76 percent had built an airplane. Interestingly, the median age of those who had built their airplanes was 62; the median age of those who were currently building one was 56; and the median age of those who had purchased one used was 60. The majority listed their occupation as “retired."
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[15:19:48] <Rab> shaun413, I've seen some test pattern jobs, but even a simple square measured corner-to-corner will tell you a lot.
[15:19:57] <MrHindsight> well if more bankers, CEO and politicians were injured by other drivers then the system might change, otherwise were all considered expendable
[15:20:05] <furrywolf> dunno, there might well be an issue with senile pilots too...
[15:20:17] <ssi> fewer than you might imagine based on those numbers
[15:20:30] <ssi> I know a ton of pilots, unsurprisingly
[15:20:55] * furrywolf puts statistics ahead of ssi's anecdote.
[15:20:56] <ssi> and I'd say that as a group, pilots tend to be younger than their age moreso than the general populace
[15:21:32] <ssi> also you have to renew medical certs more frequently past age 40, and they won't give you one if you're senile
[15:21:48] <ssi> if they did that for drivers licenses we'd have fewer problems
[15:22:06] <ssi> also, why am I talking to you? you're always such an argumentative prick about everything
[15:22:14] <malcom2073_> Problem is: All the lawmakers would fail, so they won't pass the laws :P
[15:22:22] <malcom2073_> Hahaha
[15:22:39] <shaun413> ok wtf
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[15:22:53] <shaun413> this thing thinks z is y and only moves one direction on jog lol
[15:23:02] <shaun413> and wont job z at all
[15:23:14] <furrywolf> got your pinout wrong?
[15:23:34] <shaun413> no, its connected to this controlbox thing
[15:24:14] <furrywolf> then fix it?
[15:24:22] <Rab> shaun413, sounds like you're missing the dir part of step/dir.
[15:24:30] <shaun413> probably
[15:24:53] <Rab> shaun413, what kind of controller?
[15:24:56] <shaun413> http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/3040zengraver/3040z9.jpg
[15:25:04] <shaun413> its this thing, i didnt buy it. no idea
[15:25:14] <furrywolf> "defining procedures for completing an aircraft fuel system functional test before the start of Phase I flight testing" ... I would think a complete test of all aircraft systems, including the fuel system, would be prudent, and I certainly wouldn't take off in something I built without one...
[15:25:29] <furrywolf> I also think redundancy is a very good thing.
[15:26:20] <furrywolf> what are you controlling it with?
[15:26:40] <shaun413> umm
[15:26:40] <furrywolf> that is, what's on the other end of the parallel cable?
[15:26:49] <shaun413> a computer?
[15:26:52] <Rab> shaun413, could be miswired, but it's more likely to be a problem with your config.
[15:27:07] <furrywolf> ok. and on this computer, did you set up the pinout correctly?
[15:27:20] <ssi> shaun413: if it's parallel, are you sure it's a proper parallel port cablie?
[15:27:27] <ssi> ie with all 25 lines connected and straight through?
[15:27:39] <ssi> some kind of goofy 25 pin null modem cable can cause problems like that
[15:28:03] <furrywolf> sounds to me like you have all your pins wrong, and either you didn't configure it at all, or configured it based on an inaccurate pinout given by the manufacturer...
[15:28:05] <shaun413> i have no idea ssi , i didnt provide the cable, i was merely given it
[15:28:30] <ssi> well time to put your troubleshooting hat on
[15:28:43] <ssi> are you controlling it with linuxcnc?
[15:28:50] <furrywolf> so, first question... did you configure the pinout? :)
[15:28:51] <shaun413> umm no
[15:29:01] <ssi> mach3?
[15:29:04] <shaun413> yes
[15:29:49] <furrywolf> there is no standard for parallel port control... you have to configure the software to match the driver box. I have no idea how mach3 does this. try asking in #mach3? :P
[15:30:07] <shaun413> that doesnt exist :/
[15:30:20] <ssi> mach3 is a paid product
[15:30:24] <ssi> call the vendor, get support
[15:30:37] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[15:30:41] * zeeshan|2 is working on a resume
[15:30:42] <ssi> zeeeee
[15:30:48] <ssi> nobody will hire you
[15:30:54] <shaun413> its the free one
[15:30:57] <zeeshan|2> dude i got offered a job while i was on facation
[15:30:59] <zeeshan|2> vacation
[15:31:01] <zeeshan|2> but i said no
[15:31:04] <ssi> NOBODY WILL HIRE YOU
[15:31:06] <zeeshan|2> and later i decided i wanted it, but it was gone
[15:31:07] <zeeshan|2> :(
[15:31:11] <zeeshan|2> it was GOOD money too
[15:31:20] <ssi> lol y u no accept
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[15:31:20] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of finishing my masters part time
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[15:31:23] <zeeshan|2> (shit is too slow for me)
[15:31:24] <MrHindsight> Wanted: Oversize wiring expert. Send resume.
[15:31:29] <ssi> MrHindsight: !!!!
[15:31:29] <furrywolf> zeeshan|2: subaru is no more. :(
[15:31:34] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: wtf happened
[15:31:54] <Rab> shaun413, see:
http://www.hobbycncaustralia.com/Instructions/iI20PinsandPorts.htm
[15:32:08] <furrywolf> got rear-ended by an older woman at freeway speed
[15:32:17] <zeeshan|2> shit
[15:32:23] <zeeshan|2> glad you survived
[15:32:24] <zeeshan|2> :D
[15:32:29] <zeeshan|2> what would we do without you
[15:32:37] <furrywolf> survived, and nothing broken, but the doctors say I'll be useless for a while.
[15:32:47] <zeeshan|2> =/
[15:32:50] <Rab> shaun413, you need the pinout for your control box. I don't know if your vendor supplied that information, but you can probably figure it out if you open the box and take a look inside.
[15:32:51] <zeeshan|2> law suit!
[15:32:59] <shaun413> erg
[15:33:41] <furrywolf> it was my good subaru... the perfect dent-free, rust-free one I bought from out of state and had shipped here because my other one, like every other subaru in this state, is a rust bucket.
[15:33:50] <zeeshan|2> this is the one you had the swap in?
[15:34:24] <furrywolf> I'm going to try getting my other one roadworthy so I have something to drive.
[15:36:33] <furrywolf> the one that got totalled was the completely stock daily driver. the one I need to try to make roadworthy is the swap one.
[15:36:44] <furrywolf> the swap one is a rustbucket and not roadworthy....
[15:37:24] <furrywolf> the one that was totalled I bought from out of state because rust-free subarus don't exist here. spent a lot of money on it...
[15:38:19] <furrywolf> to get the swap one roadworthy, I need an exhaust system, an alignment, and new radiator fans... although I can go without the fans as long as I drive carefully.
[15:39:40] <zeeshan|2> =/
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[15:47:37] <shaun413> should probably get a gecko control board?
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[15:50:00] <malcom2073_> Is there something wrong with your driver board?
[15:50:57] <shaun413> no its just a shitty chinese pos
[15:51:32] <malcom2073_> It's a shitty chinese router, so at least they match :P
[15:51:40] <shaun413> true
[15:52:49] <shaun413> i wonder if you can make money soldering
[15:52:59] <malcom2073_> Sure
[15:53:02] <malcom2073_> People do
[15:53:02] <shaun413> how
[15:53:15] <malcom2073_> Get a job as an electronics assembler of some sort
[15:53:16] <pcw_home> SMT assembly
[15:53:26] <shaun413> not at a job
[15:53:28] <shaun413> on your own
[15:53:35] <malcom2073_> Hard to make money without someone paying you
[15:53:41] <shaun413> lol
[15:53:49] <ssi> you can make lots of money soldering
[15:53:52] <shaun413> i just want things to solder
[15:53:58] <shaun413> if im buying a station
[15:53:59] <ssi> so long as you also are designing things to make that people want to buy
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[15:54:07] <shaun413> true
[15:54:07] <ssi> but at that point soldering becomes an ancillary part of the process :P
[15:54:16] <shaun413> right
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[15:54:23] <mark_s> hi
[15:54:27] <shaun413> also need to make pcbs
[15:54:38] <malcom2073_> Should probably learn to design circuits first?
[15:54:53] <ssi> there's a lot of steps in this process :)
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[15:55:12] <malcom2073_> In the 4 step profit, setp 3, "????" is quite involved
[15:55:16] <ssi> :D
[15:55:29] <malcom2073_> step 3*
[15:55:32] <mark_s> could someone help me with qjoypad install please
[15:58:28] <shaun413> malcom2073_, i can
[15:59:22] <shaun413> malcom2073_, ill buy ramps kits and assemble them for 200 dollars :)
[15:59:39] <archivist> mark_s, best to state real problem/question in irc
[16:01:16] <malcom2073_> shaun413: You could do that
[16:01:24] <malcom2073_> If you are cheaper than the competition, you're liable to make money
[16:01:48] <pcw_home> or lose money :-)
[16:01:53] <malcom2073_> Margins on 3d printers are so incredibly slim though
[16:01:54] <shaun413> lol
[16:02:02] <malcom2073_> The market is oversaturated
[16:02:13] <shaun413> is there a design software
[16:02:19] <shaun413> to cut 2d things out of cnc
[16:02:22] <malcom2073_> There are a lot
[16:02:27] <shaun413> and fold them to 3d? like foam board planes
[16:02:29] <shaun413> and domes
[16:04:07] <Rab> shaun413, there's this:
http://boxmaker.connectionlab.org/
[16:04:20] <malcom2073_> Oh nice
[16:05:03] <Rab> And this:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:17240
[16:05:09] <shaun413> thats just a box
[16:05:27] <shaun413> i want to make a dome for a hexacopter
[16:05:34] <Rab> Yeah, there are a few parametric box makers out there but I've never seen anything for more complex shapes.
[16:06:05] <Rab> Just about anything you can draw in Inkscape can be cut in 2D using gcodetools.
[16:06:07] <shaun413> darn
[16:06:25] <shaun413> yeah but. i cant collapse a 3d object to 2d
[16:06:27] <shaun413> easily..
[16:06:52] <archivist> you have to put some effort in
[16:07:00] <Rab> The human brain is very good at that.
[16:07:38] <Rab> Or you could build up a 3D model with parametric planar surfaces, then break them up and tile in 2D.
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[16:08:24] <shaun413> can I do that in solidworks?
[16:08:52] <archivist> use the sheet metal part of solidworks
[16:09:12] <archivist> it knows the bending allowances
[16:11:51] <shaun413> what/
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[16:16:08] <malcom2073_> what what
[16:16:58] <pcw_home> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ6WwVRKWV0
[16:17:16] <shaun413> what sheetmetal part?
[16:17:45] <Rab> shaun413, what material do you plan to use?
[16:17:50] <shaun413> foam
[16:17:52] <shaun413> board
[16:18:09] <archivist> am too lazy to teach you to read solidworks help
[16:18:14] <shaun413> ok
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[18:00:13] <shaun413> what should I attemtp to cut first?
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[18:12:56] <_methods> ties with all your relatives?
[18:14:08] <shaun413> ok
[18:14:12] <ssi> +1
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[18:20:27] <JT-Shop> I usually cut myself first
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[18:21:40] <shaun413> ok
[18:21:41] <shaun413> '
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[19:40:43] <Deejay> gn8
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[19:55:38] <Crom> shaun413, what's lacking on you equipment? got enough hold downs?
[19:55:53] <shaun413> ?
[19:55:58] <Crom> on of the first things I cut was more hold downs
[19:56:05] <shaun413> ah
[19:56:44] <SpeedEvil> You can never have too many clamps.
[19:56:53] <Crom> knobs to manually adjust X,Y, or Z position?
[19:57:15] <shaun413> have e
[19:57:16] <shaun413> m
[19:57:20] <shaun413> anyway, gtg
[19:57:27] <Crom> laterz
[20:01:01] <Tom_itx> never too many until you hit one with the cutter
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[21:26:00] <Jymmm> has anyone done pex?
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[21:32:23] <Crom> Jymm yeah I have
[21:33:02] <Jymmm> Crom: Anything I should know about if I may need to replumb a home?
[21:33:13] <Crom> I don't get the sweat/pex adapters.. I sweat on a threaded adapter, then screw on the PEX adapter
[21:33:49] <Jymmm> Crom: To what, existing copper pipe?
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[21:34:39] <Jymmm> Crom: Did you use a manifold?
[21:35:52] <Crom> I have. PEX is cheap enough to about home run everything to just by the water heater.
[21:36:19] <Crom> I enclose the PEX to protect against rodent damage
[21:36:28] <Jymmm> enclose with?
[21:36:50] <Crom> I use 5/8" sheetrock
[21:37:08] <Crom> or 1/2" plywood
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[21:37:35] <Jymmm> Crom: I'm sorry, as oppsoed to what? Is this UNDER the house you are putting hte barrier up againest?
[21:38:11] <Jymmm> like how one would cover the eves of a home with playwood?
[21:38:21] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: nails
[21:38:26] <Crom> I have closed in floor joists using 1/2" plywood and vertical walls in the garage or attic I use sheetrock
[21:38:48] <Jymmm> Crom: Ok, gotcha. Just wanted to make sure on the same page =)
[21:38:58] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Hmmm?
[21:39:16] <Crom> I tend to use staples 1/2" crown for sheet rock and 1/4" crown for plywood
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[21:40:08] <Jymmm> Crom: You are stapling the pex to the playwood?
[21:40:20] <Jymmm> or to the joists/ 2x4's
[21:40:23] <Crom> no the plywood to the joists
[21:40:46] <Jymmm> OH, air stapler
[21:40:53] <Crom> I wrap/lay the PEX on fiberglass insulation
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[21:41:38] <Jymmm> So it's not fixed to any part of the structure?
[21:44:25] <Crom> I don't since it's plastic and expands and contracts quite a bit on temperature change. I tend to use a 1' vertical to a 90 elbow to a short stub out for valves our of the wall and strap the copper to the stud and the PEX runs free
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[21:44:42] <Crom> s/our/out/
[21:45:10] <Jymmm> Crom: So you are doing/keeping copper in the walls, and jsut using pex to interconnect everything under the house?
[21:45:32] <SpeedEvil> Is the underside of the house insulated?
[21:45:42] <SpeedEvil> That is - is it at a risk of freezing
[21:45:50] <Crom> very, I haqve nothing but slab houses here
[21:46:20] <Crom> everything goes through the attic
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[21:46:48] <Crom> My dad's house in Morro Bay and Richmond both are raised joisted floors
[21:46:51] <Jymmm> I'm looking at replacing PB
[21:47:05] <Jymmm> I habe NFC =)
[21:47:17] <Jymmm> I have NFC =)
[21:48:45] <Crom> I have maybe 18" of copper in the wall to anchor the stub out and PEX up through the fireblock and top cap into the attic
[21:49:51] <Jymmm> I'm getting rough estimates of $3200-$4500 which is pex + shutoff valves + flex lines. Excluding fixture replacements if any.
[21:50:22] <Crom> it's really easy to do yourself
[21:50:42] <Jymmm> and get it right?
[21:50:43] <Crom> the not fun part is fixing all the drywall
[21:50:58] <Jymmm> Crom: This is moduler home
[21:51:04] <Jymmm> modular*
[21:51:17] <Crom> 2x4 construction?
[21:51:22] <Jymmm> 2x2
[21:51:32] <Jymmm> Crom: mobile home
[21:51:37] <Crom> that is a trailer with the wheels ataken off
[21:51:47] <Jymmm> pretty much
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[21:52:38] <Jymmm> 1) I hate plumbing as it is.
[21:52:38] <Crom> what's the temperature fo your outside temps around the year? here it's 28f to 114f
[21:52:54] <Jymmm> let me confirm...
[21:53:03] <Tom_itx> if PEX is just laying there what keeps it from moving around when faucets are turned on and off quickly?
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[21:53:17] <Tom_itx> slapping around freely
[21:53:31] <Crom> Tom_itx, the reason I wrap it in insulation
[21:54:24] <Crom> and I put in air columns as well, though PEX does a pretty good job of handling hammer
[21:54:29] <Crom> water hammer
[21:55:36] <Jymmm> Crom: It was 25F in January, and will be 103F Wednesday
[21:55:38] <Crom> Jymm what's your outside?? fiberboard?
[21:55:54] <Crom> Jymm about the same here then
[21:56:11] <Crom> MDF siding
[21:56:12] <JT-Shop> flopping around like a fish I guess
[21:56:45] <Jymmm> Crom: I honestly don't recall atm. I believe it was composite.
[21:57:15] <Jymmm> Crom: " Composition Board Siding"
[21:57:19] <Crom> last time I did a modular home, we just took the outside off and rewired and replumbed and then put the sides back on
[21:58:01] <Jymmm> Crom: Is is nailed on? screwed? glued? Hoe did you resela it?
[21:58:22] <Crom> only had to pull drywall off 1 wall inside.. back side of the kitchen and removed the vanity in the bathroom
[21:58:39] <Jymmm> Crom: this is paneling on the indie
[21:58:44] <Jymmm> inside
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[21:59:02] <Crom> it was screwed on and used latex caulk to reseal it
[21:59:09] <Jymmm> Crom: I was thinking of going thru the subarea
[21:59:42] <Jymmm> Crom: disconnecting an existing fitting, replace with pex. lather rinse repeat
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[22:00:06] <Crom> last mobile home I did was about in 1978 and it was AL siding.. screwed on as well
[22:00:08] <Jymmm> Crom: Have a 3/4" main line, the tap off that for 1/2"
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[22:01:10] <Crom> or get 3/4" T with a 1/2" side fitting
[22:01:29] <Crom> 3/4-1/2-3/4 _|_
[22:01:36] <Jymmm> http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-3-4-in-x-3-4-in-x-1-2-in-Brass-PEX-Barb-x-Barb-x-Barb-Reducer-Tee-UC412LFA/202270599
[22:02:01] <Jymmm> that?
[22:02:32] <Crom> yeah that'll work.. I used the press on fittings not the crimp ones
[22:02:42] <Tom_itx> 97°F
[22:02:56] <Crom> bbiab
[22:03:10] <Jymmm> Crom: Haven't seen press-on fittings
[22:03:12] <Jymmm> k
[22:04:01] * Jymmm youtubes...
[22:04:05] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, docs are lookin good
[22:04:53] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, thanks
[22:05:03] <JT-Shop> I still have a bunch to do
[22:05:11] <JT-Shop> some of it is hidden stuff
[22:05:37] <JT-Shop> I tried to get a static ip in the wheezy computer and lost internet lol
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[22:06:54] <Jymmm> Crom: The "press on" fittings you are talking about are "toolless"? (Except for the lil tool used to remove the tubing)
[22:07:10] <Tom_itx> yeah i found they all do it a bit differently. i bet wheezy uses the 'manager' for that and if you mess with it, it screws up
[22:07:27] <Tom_itx> there _is_ a way to do it though
[22:07:57] <Tom_itx> one wheezy site i looked at showed it about the same way as i told you though
[22:10:04] <Tom_itx> http://www.kevinhooke.com/2012/12/20/configuring-a-static-ip-on-debian-wheezy-for-raspberry-pi/
[22:10:09] <Tom_itx> should be quite similar to that
[22:10:50] <Tom_itx> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/124269/where-is-my-eth0-configuration-on-wheezy
[22:12:00] <Tom_itx> https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration
[22:13:48] <JT-Shop> lol I skipped that site because it said raspberry
[22:14:08] <Tom_itx> still debian
[22:14:26] <JT-Shop> I must have had something wrong with my network or gateway
[22:14:58] <Tom_itx> i'm betting your netmask should be 255.255.255.0
[22:16:10] <Tom_itx> and i'm not sure why your gateway was a different ip than the local network
[22:16:15] <Tom_itx> they're generally the same
[22:16:28] <JT-Shop> Subnet Mask : 255.255.252.0
[22:16:45] <Tom_itx> i'm thinking that should be what i said
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[22:17:35] <JT-Shop> oh that was wan not lan
[22:17:47] <Jymmm> /8 or 255.255.255.0 is the most common subnet
[22:17:56] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:18:07] <Jymmm> if that was WAN, leave it be
[22:18:08] <JT-Shop> LAN
[22:18:09] <JT-Shop> MAC Address : 5c:d9:98:60:32:0e
[22:18:09] <JT-Shop> IP Address : 192.168.0.1
[22:18:09] <JT-Shop> Subnet Mask : 255.255.255.0
[22:18:09] <JT-Shop> DHCP Server : Enabled
[22:19:04] <Crom> Jymmm, yep
[22:19:47] <Jymmm> Crom: Ok, I didn't realize there were different pex "systems"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8J1yHRuFWs
[22:20:27] <Tom_itx> so the ip is your gateway
[22:20:36] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: That WAN subnet; it looks like they're doing classless routing (1024 hosts per subnet)
[22:20:58] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: just leave the WAN alone.
[22:21:25] <Jymmm> for your LAN, verify the gateway address
[22:22:05] <Jymmm> should be something like 192.168.0.254 more than likely
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[22:28:08] <JT-Shop> no gateway listed for the LAN
[22:34:14] <JT-Shop> this is the router
http://www.dlink.com/xk/sq/support/product/dir-632-wireless-n-8-port-router
[22:35:47] <JT-Shop> http://www.dlink.com/-/media/Consumer_Products/DIR/DIR%20635/Manual/DIR_635_Manual_EN_UK.pdf
[22:37:36] <JT-Shop> actually this is the one
http://ftp.dlink.ru/pub/Router/DIR-632/Description/1_4_0/DIR-632_User%20Manual_v.1.4.0_24.08.12_EN.pdf
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[22:41:31] <JT-Shop> ftp://ftp2.dlink.com/PRODUCTS/DIR-632/REVA/DIR-632_MANUAL_1.00_EN.PDF
[22:41:39] <JT-Shop> http://support.dlink.com/ProductInfo.aspx?m=DIR-632
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[23:13:32] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, your gateway would be that IP listed 192.168.0.1 i believe
[23:14:00] <Tom_itx> it's the local router ip
[23:15:06] <Tom_itx> and the netmask is 255.255.255.0
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[23:18:42] <Tom_itx> your dns range would be on the Network statistics page on 91 of the pdf
[23:19:01] <Tom_itx> so i'd pick a static ip at the top end of that for the pc
[23:19:39] <Tom_itx> 192.168.1/24 in that example so 192.168.1.24 would be the upper limit for a static ip
[23:21:05] <Tom_itx> the routing table on P93 shows the gateway address & netmask
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[23:57:40] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/OEDXyuQ.jpg And so it begins...
[23:58:20] <Tom_itx> hah
[23:58:34] <PetefromTn_> ;)
