#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-05-24

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[00:02:27] <MattyMatt> segways all you need
[00:02:50] <XXCoder> segway nah not till it can last many miles
[00:03:18] <MattyMatt> I meant to splatter your head, not to get anywhere :)
[00:04:09] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: what does it use to fly? I has doubt
[00:04:17] <MattyMatt> I want a robomule that can go and fetch 8x4 plywood from the store
[00:04:43] <MattyMatt> for personal transport I has feets
[00:05:00] <MattyMatt> and an ebike, and a modern public transport system
[00:05:09] <XXCoder> Still waiting for elio
[00:05:26] <MattyMatt> 95% of an ebike. it runs I just gotta finish the bracket for the batteries
[00:07:49] <Aero-Tec> I am trying to add tools to table for my lathe
[00:08:22] <Aero-Tec> in the past this has been very scary as I can mess things up and have crashes
[00:08:41] <Aero-Tec> if I zero tool 1
[00:09:18] <Aero-Tec> to a test work stock in lathe
[00:10:09] <Aero-Tec> can I use that zero to add tool to tool table by touch off to tool table?
[00:10:36] <Aero-Tec> and would that also be ok for all the tools already in tool table?
[00:12:50] <Aero-Tec> as in would there zero setting still be right if they were right in the first place, even tho the real world zero used to zero them was not the same zero used for the new zero for the new tool?
[00:13:21] <Aero-Tec> does that make sense?
[00:13:59] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_X-Jet
[00:14:04] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: I have one tool that I think of as the “master” tool and that always has zeros in the tool table
[00:14:13] <XXCoder> reading
[00:14:20] <andypugh> And the other tool table entries are relative to that one
[00:14:34] <Aero-Tec> that is what I need to do
[00:14:34] <andypugh> And the tool table is populated entirely by touching-off.
[00:15:04] <XXCoder> interest9ng
[00:15:05] <andypugh> So, machine a diameter with tool 1, set the G54 offset so that the diameter is correct.
[00:15:26] <andypugh> Machine with tool 2, set the _tool_ offset so the diamter is correct, and so on.
[00:16:11] <Aero-Tec> tool 2 would be set to tool table
[00:16:23] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9dskxN10N0 cutting steel with bacon
[00:16:28] <Aero-Tec> what about the fixture or work setting?
[00:17:23] <andypugh> One the tools are set up, the diameter never changes. But you can touch-off Z on a job by job basis.
[00:17:52] <andypugh> I typically jog to close to the metal, touch-off at 1mm, then face to zero.
[00:19:00] <andypugh> “engineering grade of bacon” :-)
[00:20:09] <malcom2073> That's bacon trimmed to a thickness of 0.0005?
[00:20:41] <Aero-Tec> andypugh, what I was doing was using tool 1 to machine the end of stock, set Z zero with workpiece and g54, then cut the dia and measure and set the X of g54
[00:21:27] <andypugh> As long as you check that tool 1 has zero in the offsets that is the same as what I do
[00:21:37] <Aero-Tec> then put in new tool and use a feeler gage to set the Z of new tool to the machined end of the stock using tool 1
[00:21:47] <Aero-Tec> do a touch off to tool table
[00:21:59] <andypugh> Then I typically forget to switch from T fo G54 at a critical point and have to start agian.
[00:22:07] <Aero-Tec> would that be a good way to set up a tool table using touch off?
[00:22:33] <Aero-Tec> lol
[00:22:35] <andypugh> It is the way I have always donw it on the lath
[00:22:39] <Aero-Tec> been there done that
[00:23:24] <Aero-Tec> just wanted to make sure doing it that way would not mess up the tool setting I have now and have to redo them all
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[00:23:41] <Aero-Tec> I have had to do redoes more times then I want to say
[00:24:39] <Aero-Tec> the tool table is growing and getting to where a complete redo is lots of extra work
[00:24:59] <Aero-Tec> andypugh, thanks a mill for the help
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[01:38:44] <barjunk_> I've read through the docs, but I must be missing something...
[01:39:18] <barjunk_> How do I calibrate the stepper against an actual measurement
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[01:39:40] <barjunk_> so if I want my Z axis to move one inch when issued G0 Z1.0
[01:40:01] <barjunk_> but it physically moves it 1.5 inches....where can I change the value to correct that??
[01:40:58] <barjunk_> I'm not using home switches at the moment...if that matters.
[01:41:42] <PetefromTn_> Would'nt that just be your steps per inch settings?
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[01:45:41] <barjunk_> Well yes, but that doesn't exist in the ini file as far as I can tell
[01:45:47] <barjunk_> is that the SCALE value?
[01:47:35] <barjunk_> From what I can tell, that looks to be the right thing, but didn't want to mess with it...guess I'll just go try it and see.
[01:47:52] <barjunk_> What could possibly go wrong? :)
[01:48:13] <barjunk_> PetefromTn_ Looks like you got your problem sorted?
[01:53:17] <PetefromTn_> yeah machine is working correctly now I think. Tommorrow I will know better if it forgets everything.
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[02:09:14] <barjunk_> That would stink
[02:09:33] <barjunk_> SCALE does seem to impact it, but then there is a point where changing the number doesn't seem to matter.
[02:09:51] <barjunk_> This may have to do with the driver software, so I'm going to check into that now.
[02:10:30] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ did you figure out what was wrong?
[02:11:23] <PetefromTn_> Did I manage to get the TLO set correctly yes... did I figure out why it was 71 inches something ....No unfortunately
[02:11:44] <PetefromTn_> I managed to make three successful runs of that prototype part I was machining without incident.
[02:11:47] <barjunk_> I just hope you don't have to reset it again...
[02:11:56] <barjunk_> That's good.
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[02:12:19] <PetefromTn_> Parts came out to spec and look great so I am happy for now LOL
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[02:12:47] <PetefromTn_> Gotta program some sacrificial jaws and cut the second side.
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[02:28:45] <furrywolf> http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2015/may/23/photos-2015-kinetic-grand-championship-sculpture-f/ why doesn't everywhere have one of these? :)
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[03:15:42] <barjunk_> PetefromTn_, mine is working out as well...still a little more calibration, but I'm getting closer.
[03:15:52] <PetefromTn_> excellent glad to hear it.
[03:16:10] <barjunk_> I'm building a foam cutter out of an old HP plotter and an Arduino.
[03:16:18] <barjunk_> It has been an interesting experience.
[03:16:40] <barjunk_> cuts 6mm foam to make foam rc plane parts.
[03:19:02] <furrywolf> sounds like a good excuse to build a laser table
[03:20:38] <barjunk_> this seemed like a simpler first step to my limited knowledgebase
[03:21:04] <cradek> whee, I'm successfully making dia 0.045, 90 tpi flat head screws
[03:21:40] <barjunk_> one of my criteria was that I could move the unit by myself...the plotter platform has wheels.
[03:22:05] <furrywolf> cradek: making something very, very little? or just testing machine?
[03:22:08] <barjunk_> And that I could move it out of the way in the garage without having to man handle it.
[03:22:41] <barjunk_> foam is 2ft, by 4ft lengths.
[03:23:02] <cradek> furrywolf: screws for some very old glasses
[03:27:28] <furrywolf> I need to build a spindle encoder, but I need a mesa board first.
[03:28:40] <Tom_itx> cradek did it fit ok?
[03:28:47] <Tom_itx> mating part not too worn?
[03:30:24] <furrywolf> if it is, you can make the screws oversized...
[03:31:24] <cradek> Tom_itx: they work great
[03:31:37] <cradek> I have to finish the heads in a second op
[03:31:46] <cradek> I have a watchmakers lathe with collets that will be perfect for that
[03:38:56] <cradek> my parting tool is a jeweler's saw :-)
[03:39:56] <furrywolf> I don't think either of my lathes could accurately make a part like that without a lot of fine tweaking.
[03:40:35] <furrywolf> the sherline is worn, and the shoptask came that way new.
[03:41:00] <cradek> this is just on my sherline, no tweaking except very carefully ground tools
[03:41:22] <cradek> the threading tool used to be a parting tool
[03:42:11] <furrywolf> I made my last batch of tools from broken drillbits, because they were handy. somehow I have an infinite supply of them...
[03:42:21] <cradek> haha yep
[03:43:17] <barjunk_> Is there a command that sends everything back to home?
[03:43:28] <furrywolf> I can't do any threading until I build a spindle encoder, and I can't connect a spindle encoder until I set up a mesa system, and I can't get a mesa system until I magically develop a spare $200...
[03:43:29] <barjunk_> Maybe something like G0 X0Y0
[03:43:31] <barjunk_> ?
[03:43:33] <cradek> you might want g0 g53 x0 y0 z0
[03:43:51] <barjunk_> ok.
[03:43:56] <cradek> you should also read the docs about g28, g28.1, g30, g30.1
[03:44:06] <barjunk_> OK...thanks.
[03:44:11] <cradek> (they may or may not be what you want)
[03:44:16] <furrywolf> I'm paranoid and home z first, but I'm mostly incompetent...
[03:44:36] <barjunk_> I'll fiddle some more...thanks.
[03:45:07] <cradek> furrywolf: touchy has a "go all the way up" button which is really nice
[03:45:41] <cradek> it's just like a full speed jog all the way to the top of travel
[03:55:33] <furrywolf> I've never looked at touchy... rtfming now.
[03:56:50] <cradek> it's awesome
[03:57:13] <furrywolf> I can't use my touchscreen until I get the mesa board, and a jog wheel is a spare-time-and-money part. heh.
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[03:58:28] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/ao-screws-firstop.jpg
[03:58:51] <cradek> the bottom one is the thread sample
[03:59:17] <furrywolf> shiny
[04:00:54] <cradek> they'll be super easy to grab in a WW collet to finish up
[04:00:58] <PetefromTn_> ooh pretty!
[04:01:12] <cradek> but I have to take the spindle encoder off to use the collets :-/
[04:01:23] <cradek> some day I'll make a new drawtube to avoid that
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[04:02:49] <cradek> heh I should mount the screwhead file on the sherline and have it do the slots too
[04:02:56] <cradek> that's be funny
[04:02:58] <cradek> that'd
[04:04:41] <furrywolf> I want to use my mill to cut keyways... planning on just sticking a cutter in the spindle, finding a way to lock it, and abusing my Z axis for a while.
[04:05:35] <cradek> that's sure been done before...
[04:06:17] <furrywolf> very similar to using a file for screwheads. :)
[04:06:30] <cradek> hey now you have an excuse to buy a shaper
[04:06:40] <cradek> yep same idea, but much bigger...
[04:06:54] <furrywolf> buying things requires money and space
[04:07:44] <cradek> and space costs money
[04:07:48] <furrywolf> yep
[04:08:49] <furrywolf> first use of money, should it become available, is the mesa board.
[04:10:11] <furrywolf> current project is building the enclosure... I got the metal cut, now need to drill and screw. but, the sculpture race has taken priority.
[04:16:17] <furrywolf> 6 plates, 11 angles, 2 piano hinges.
[04:16:47] <furrywolf> I might need heavier-duty hinges... the only ones the local stores carry (and they all carry the exact same ones, because there's only one distributor in the entire area it seems) are exceedingly flimsy.
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[04:28:18] <XXCoderMint> heys
[04:29:59] <furrywolf> changed your flavor today?
[04:31:33] <XXCoderMint> installing mint on new pc
[04:31:41] <XXCoderMint> having issues so far
[04:31:49] <XXCoderMint> installer crashes :(
[04:32:10] <furrywolf> lol
[04:32:45] <furrywolf> only installers I've had crash were windows and beos.
[04:33:36] <XXCoderMint> I dont think my flash drive is any good
[04:33:42] <XXCoderMint> and new pc has no cd drive lol
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[05:24:10] <barjunk_> is there a parameter that is related to the speed of travel?
[05:24:44] <barjunk_> so if the machine needs to travel a foot and it takes 2 seconds to do it....what parameters would I be messing with to figure that out?
[05:25:21] <furrywolf> feedrate?
[05:25:54] <barjunk_> Is that something I'd change in the ini file?
[05:26:18] <furrywolf> are you trying to set the rate of a specific cut, or the maximum an axis can move?
[05:27:21] <barjunk_> my initial test to make a 5 by 5 square resulted in the far right corner being more of a curve....
[05:28:19] <barjunk_> so it seems like it started drawing the X axis on the third side before it completed the second side.
[05:28:40] <barjunk_> which would have been the Y axis.
[05:29:01] <furrywolf> you can look at trajectory planning and exact stop mode. there's a way to set the maximum tolerance between what you specify and where the cutter actually is, but the default I believe is pretty small. are you sure it isn't a mechanical issue with your machine, or you were forcing it to take too deep/fast of a cut?
[05:29:39] <barjunk_> at this point, I'm using a pencil to draw the shape.
[05:30:17] <barjunk_> it could be a mechanical issue....or a parameter in the driver software.
[05:30:49] <barjunk_> I have three settings, steps per inch, unitspersecond, max acceleration
[05:31:06] <barjunk_> I think I need to change the unitspersecond for the Y axis.
[05:32:05] <furrywolf> that'll lower the maximum speed, which might hide some problems, but unless you're having speed-related issues (like losing steps), won't fix them.
[05:32:35] <furrywolf> try putting it into exact stop mode and seeing if you get the same symptoms. also watch carefully to make sure you're not simply bending the pencil.
[05:32:40] <barjunk_> I don't think I'm losing steps...
[05:32:47] <barjunk_> How would I know?
[05:32:57] <furrywolf> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TrajectoryControl
[05:33:21] <furrywolf> you'd know you're losing steps because of the horrible noise, and your endpoint of your square not being the same as your starting point.
[05:36:07] <furrywolf> I'm fairly sure the trajectory planner defaults don't result in visible rounding of corners
[05:37:41] <barjunk_> ok...my start and end points match...just the far corner gets rounded.
[05:38:08] <barjunk_> I'm going to issue a G61 at the start of my next test to see if that impacts things.
[05:39:05] <furrywolf> is this a homebrew or factory machine?
[05:39:09] <barjunk_> Also, going to fiddle a little bit with the units per second setting of the driver
[05:39:12] <barjunk_> homebrew.
[05:39:41] <furrywolf> sure you're square? if not, you could be jamming the pencil into the paper at the far corner, causing it to bend.
[05:39:48] <barjunk_> I'm sure I haven't set something correctly or I don't understand some specific element
[05:40:15] <barjunk_> good point. I'll draw a few more before I make changes to see if it is consistent.
[05:40:49] <barjunk_> I think I'll zip tie the pencil in place so it won't have any real chance to move.
[05:40:56] <furrywolf> try starting at the far corner and going around the other way.
[05:41:19] <barjunk_> That is a good idea as well.
[05:41:43] <barjunk_> its also possible that the material slipped, but I don't think so, because the final leg was the right size.
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[05:42:15] <barjunk_> in fact, while watching it, each axis should move on its own...but in that one corner, both X and Y were moving.
[05:42:32] <furrywolf> well, then try exact stop mode...
[05:42:34] <barjunk_> That's why I was wondering ...
[05:42:42] <barjunk_> Yeah...that will be one of my first changes.
[05:43:02] <barjunk_> Is there a way to know if it is in exact stop mode or not?
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[05:43:16] <barjunk_> Something that shows that setting?
[05:43:31] <furrywolf> I think it tells you the current modes on the mdi tab, but I haven't checked to see if it's on there.
[05:43:51] <barjunk_> OK. Now that I know what I'm looking for....
[05:44:38] <barjunk_> My gut says its the units per second setting....but it won't hurt to look at exact stop as ell.
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[05:45:36] <furrywolf> if you're talking about the setting I'm thinking of, it only sets the maximum the axis can travel, and has no effect if your feedrate is under that.
[05:46:06] <barjunk_> in this case, it is a setting in the driver not in linuxcnc
[05:46:26] <furrywolf> which driver?
[05:46:45] <barjunk_> the board which drives my steppers...has its own program.
[05:46:57] <barjunk_> using arduino to drive the stepper motors.
[05:47:24] <furrywolf> in that case, I have no clue what that program is doing.
[05:49:15] * furrywolf didn't even know linuxcnc talked to such things
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[06:14:33] <furrywolf> make it work?
[06:15:06] <barjunk_> Haven't tried that yet...
[06:15:19] <barjunk_> I'm still looking at that other setting I was telling you about.
[06:15:45] <barjunk_> I should probably just try that....it would be easier...one sec.
[06:16:26] <furrywolf> if your driver is doing its own acceleration math, it could well be causing it.
[06:16:37] <furrywolf> I've never heard of the driver you're using, and didn't know linuxcnc talked to such things.
[06:19:59] <barjunk_> called hal2arduino
[06:20:18] <barjunk_> https://emc2arduino.wordpress.com/
[06:21:05] <barjunk_> I know it will work with linuxcnc, cause the guy who wrote it used it...so its just me figuring out the right steps.
[06:21:29] <barjunk_> I'll make those other changes tomorrow...I'm going to head out for now.
[06:21:39] <barjunk_> Thanks again for the support.
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[06:22:16] <barjunk_> I think the whole project has probably only cost me about $200 bucks.
[06:22:19] <furrywolf> "Make your very own CNC machine or Robot the easy way, with an Arduino!" ... because adding more hardware and software makes it easier? lol
[06:22:28] <barjunk_> lol
[06:22:46] <barjunk_> its definitely less expensive, from what I can tell.
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[06:23:19] <barjunk_> Since I'm not doing commercial stuff, and don't have a machine with a good parallel port, I decided to do it this way.
[06:23:20] <furrywolf> it's more expensive than a parallel port breakout board...
[06:24:03] <barjunk_> If you have a PC that can take a board....I have a laptop.
[06:24:23] <barjunk_> Also, I'm not using windows...so PCMCIA wouldn't work for me.
[06:24:54] <furrywolf> ... how are those related? pcmcia is a card type. windows is an os.
[06:25:19] <barjunk_> I bought a pcmcia parallel port...linux wouldn't recognize it....
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[06:25:56] <furrywolf> could have been a bad card... most of them work fine.
[06:25:56] <witnit> use ethernet port instead?
[06:26:18] <barjunk_> doesn't really matter...just the direction I choose.
[06:26:43] <witnit> how many axis?
[06:26:47] <barjunk_> 3
[06:27:00] <furrywolf> I too have a laptop, but I have a working parallel port. my plan is to switch to a ethernet mesa board when I have the money.
[06:27:14] <barjunk_> how much does one of those go for?
[06:27:41] <furrywolf> witnit: he's using an arduino-based pulse generator and getting round corners when he should have square.
[06:28:06] <barjunk_> honestly things haven't been going too badly...mostly it has been an issue me not knowing or understanding the terminology.
[06:29:01] <barjunk_> witnit, we were thinking that it is related to a unitspersecond setting in the driver software on the arduino...
[06:29:08] <barjunk_> or maybe that was just me...
[06:29:15] <furrywolf> $200 for the board I want, but I have a more complex machine than you, with two spindles among other oddities. I think it's $90 for the cheap one.
[06:29:26] <furrywolf> we being you, yes. :P
[06:29:32] <barjunk_> I'll have to look into that.
[06:29:40] <barjunk_> well...we were discussing it anyway.. :)
[06:30:23] <witnit> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HdikHRXnAs
[06:30:38] <witnit> i think that covers everything but def not arduino :)
[06:31:02] <furrywolf> ... why the heck would a video be the right answer?
[06:31:06] <witnit> :)
[06:31:29] <barjunk_> He is just showing the board you were talking about
[06:31:34] <furrywolf> pictures+text++
[06:31:47] <witnit> i do 7i33 and 7i90hd
[06:32:26] <witnit> so its about $150 but then you need encoders and amps and..well a computer i guess
[06:33:11] <furrywolf> I'm planning on a 7i76e, with ethernet. there's a cheaper ethernet board, but without as much i/o.
[06:33:44] <barjunk_> I'll come back tomorrow and report my results.
[06:34:06] <barjunk_> Thanks again furrywolf
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[06:35:33] <witnit> arduino has so many supporters
[06:39:29] <furrywolf> is that one of the fancy direct-drive washing machine motors?
[06:40:50] <furrywolf> I only have one of those, and barring a catastrophic failure of my washer/dryer, that's where it's staying...
[06:41:35] <witnit> hahaha i dunno i was just looking at cards
[06:42:20] <witnit> i have this project coming up possibly, this guy has 4 bridgeports with broken cnc controls... and wants to sell them all
[06:42:30] <furrywolf> send me one. :P
[06:42:37] <witnit> we talked sme and he talked about getting one going for him
[06:43:06] <witnit> im thinking about just slapping a servo system together and swapping out the motors
[06:43:55] <furrywolf> why not keep the existing motors?
[06:44:15] <witnit> its stepper and i have all servo parts around
[06:44:32] <witnit> it depends on what all he has that is functional
[06:44:43] <witnit> probably most of it but silly controls on it
[06:44:48] <furrywolf> with four machines there's got to be one good set of drivers...
[06:45:42] <witnit> yeah but he has servo tool changer changer with i guess and i just figured it would keep it all one way or the other
[06:45:59] <witnit> then if i can put together a couple more which are just standard steppers
[06:46:16] <witnit> he mentioned if i got one going for him i would take the other 1
[06:46:26] <witnit> so we'll see how the meetup goes
[06:47:08] * furrywolf would love a deal like that
[06:47:19] <witnit> eyes peeled :)
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[06:47:44] <furrywolf> there's not much in the way of machine tools around here, and when there are, they're always waaaaay overpriced. last bridgeport I saw was a rusty, worn out, manual machine for $2500...
[06:47:49] <Deejay> moin
[06:47:56] <furrywolf> rusty as in spent its life outside
[06:48:18] <witnit> mojn!
[06:48:23] <witnit> got this one for $100
[06:48:25] <witnit> http://what.duckdns.org/rifraf.mp4
[06:48:59] <furrywolf> that's going to take forever to download.
[06:49:17] <furrywolf> and cost me $0.40
[06:49:22] <witnit> oh? well its a motoman arm
[06:49:24] <witnit> hahah no bother
[06:50:18] <witnit> i would switch it over to linuxcnc but the controls are just fine the way they are for now
[06:50:36] <witnit> when something goes i will probably break down and convert it
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[06:51:00] <furrywolf> your server is also returning it as text/html.
[06:51:29] <furrywolf> hrmm. and now video. randomly.
[06:51:33] <furrywolf> your server is broken. :P
[06:54:08] <furrywolf> lol! AND after downloading the first 5% of it, it doesn't even play.
[06:54:53] * furrywolf stops caring
[06:55:39] <t12> nice
[06:55:41] <t12> thats awesome for $100
[07:01:30] <witnit> didnt work when i got it :)
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[07:05:10] <xxcodermint> finally got it to work jeez
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[07:10:38] <witnit> oh?
[07:10:53] <xxcodermint> mint on my new pc. gonna fix some stuff like drivers though
[07:11:05] <xxcodermint> then move lots stuff from old pc to new one
[07:11:53] <witnit> i like xubuntu
[07:12:11] <xxcodermint> linux mint xkcd
[07:12:19] <witnit> :)
[07:13:07] <witnit> im taking a break from datasheets and playing world of tanks
[07:13:24] <archivist> slurry tanks?
[07:13:29] <xxcodermint> isnt that weird game where tanks can really jum
[07:13:31] <xxcodermint> jump
[07:18:52] <xxcodermint> oh yeah that other one
[07:18:58] <xxcodermint> was thinking that very old linux game
[07:19:34] <xxcodermint> my nephew plays that
[07:19:43] <xxcodermint> looks decent but of course unplayable for me as usual.
[07:20:19] <furrywolf> you need to become a mucker. :P
[07:20:28] <xxcodermint> mucker?
[07:20:47] <furrywolf> someone who plays mucks
[07:21:18] <xxcodermint> ah lol
[07:21:18] <witnit> i play it on linux =F
[07:21:20] <witnit> =D
[07:23:25] <furrywolf> people tried getting me to sign up for furrymuck once, but I'm just really not interested in mucks... but for someone who needs text-only...
[07:23:51] <xxcodermint> nah ksp will do lol
[07:24:01] <furrywolf> ksp?
[07:24:14] <xxcodermint> kerbin spaxce program
[07:25:04] <t12> http://store.steampowered.com/app/346010/
[07:25:51] <furrywolf> google translates that to kerbal space program, and it sounds graphical. their website is nonfunctional, so I can't check, however...
[07:26:06] <xxcodermint> its one of rare 3d games I can play
[07:26:33] <furrywolf> wikipedia makes it look very graphical indeed.
[07:26:48] <xxcodermint> cant wait to run ksp maxed out here
[07:26:59] <xxcodermint> tons memory and 64 bit finally. ksp 64 bit is crap
[07:27:03] <xxcodermint> for windows
[07:27:30] <xxcodermint> brb reboot
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[07:30:19] <xxcodermint> cant figure how to configure dual displayu
[07:30:41] <witnit> xorg.cong
[07:30:45] <witnit> conf*
[07:30:47] <witnit> :)
[07:33:48] <xxcodermint> trying sudo aticonfig --initial=dual-head --screen-layout=right
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[07:35:17] <xxcodermint> worked
[07:35:36] <witnit> beautiful
[07:35:50] <xxcodermint> yeah need to make hexchat LOT darker!
[07:35:55] <xxcodermint> way too bright now
[07:37:19] <xxcodermint> okay this will do till I copy over my windows hexchat settings and stuff
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[07:39:50] <furrywolf> bbl, way past wolfy bedtime
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[07:42:21] <furrywolf> wow, furrymuck is 25 years old.
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[07:44:43] <t12> i always liked the hack and slash ones
[07:44:47] <t12> the RP ones never did it for me
[07:45:41] <furrywolf> I like neither. lol
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[10:14:55] <archivist> rofl spelin,description an price http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/milling-machine-/161713474956
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[11:32:14] <SpeedEvil> category error too
[11:32:23] <SpeedEvil> That is not a milling machine
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[14:21:20] <tjtr33> anyone setup jessie with linuxcnc? ( i was hoping to have single system with arm cross compiler tools )
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[17:04:40] <archivist> hey suckers wanna pay far too much for junk http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ballscrew-CNC-Machine-MDL-A4-BSX-Mach3-ATC-Tool-Changer-4th-Axis-/221138234331
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[17:05:29] <archivist> hehe impossible Accuracy/Repeatability: 0.01mm
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[17:07:07] <furrywolf> I'm sure that repeatability is possible if you put it in a temperature-controlled oven and measure it with a laser...
[17:07:14] <archivist> especially as the extrusions are not machined
[17:07:59] <SpeedEvil> (*) with external laser encoder
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[17:08:13] <SpeedEvil> inches, and I'll beleive that
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[17:08:19] <SpeedEvil> maybe
[17:08:20] <zeeshan> fuck stainless!
[17:08:49] <zeeshan> (huge chunks of it)
[17:09:05] <furrywolf> zeeshan: if you want to fuck stainless, pick up a njoy pure wand. it rocks. :P
[17:09:07] <archivist> as they are in the UK I could call the advertising standards authority
[17:09:55] <FinboySlick> I have some black acrylic and a 2-flute 1/8" AlTiN cutter. Any suggestions on feed/speed? Google is giving mixed results.
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[17:11:31] <archivist> plastics can need different cutter geometry (rake and sharpness) some grabs and shatters
[17:12:45] <FinboySlick> archivist: That's what kinda scares me. I don't have any plastic tooling. I know that trying to baby it can make things worse though.
[17:12:50] <furrywolf> my suggestion on feed/speed is to feed it to the recycle bin, as quickly as possible. at least that's been the end result of every time I've tried machining acrylic, so you can save a step and just toss it now...
[17:13:00] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: don't over think it
[17:13:06] <zeeshan> i was told teflon is a bitch to machine
[17:13:10] <zeeshan> yet its easier than aluminum
[17:13:16] <zeeshan> with regular carbide inserts and tooling
[17:13:26] <archivist> teflon is nothing like acrylic
[17:13:26] <zeeshan> it might not be the most optimal, but it works
[17:13:38] <zeeshan> i made plastic gears out of acrylic
[17:13:39] <FinboySlick> Well, another limitation is that I can't really spin slower than 8k RPM.
[17:13:45] <zeeshan> i was using high speed steel
[17:13:53] <zeeshan> and the same settings for aluminum.
[17:13:54] <zeeshan> worked fine
[17:13:55] <archivist> I was at a sign makers once and they were breaking stuff
[17:14:05] <zeeshan> cause they were prolly feeding too fast
[17:14:07] <zeeshan> not enough rpm
[17:14:21] <archivist> no it needed less rake to fix
[17:14:52] <furrywolf> acrylic always seems to crack no matter what you do... even if you manage to make a hole in it without it cracking, then it cracks as soon as you tighten a screw...
[17:15:08] <FinboySlick> I'm not doing a lot of material at a time though so hopefully the bit won't get overly hot.
[17:15:08] <archivist> I advised to hand grind a flat like we to for brass, it worked
[17:15:16] <archivist> to/do
[17:16:31] <archivist> FinboySlick, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ri6poVpQM8
[17:16:33] <zeeshan> i hooked up my air compressor
[17:16:36] <zeeshan> i hope slotting will be okay now
[17:18:02] <furrywolf> blah. I'm trying to watch the live stream of the kinetic sculpture race, but my connection can't do the 48K/sec.
[17:18:37] <furrywolf> I'm just pit crew this year, and I have a cold, so I'm sitting at home instead of going. heh.
[17:20:00] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Well, I don't have any plunging so hopefully that won't happen to me.
[17:21:57] <Tom_itx> black is a pita to cut
[17:26:00] <archivist> we made the extra small face vertical, I dont call if dulling the tool
[17:26:05] <Tom_itx> 8k rpm you're gonna generate alot of heat
[17:26:09] <archivist> if/it
[17:26:29] <archivist> that will melt its way though
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[17:34:14] <barjunk> Where is the best place to find information on the ini file?
[17:34:33] <barjunk> There seem to be references to things I might do....
[17:34:37] <archivist> the docs
[17:34:46] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/ini_config.html
[17:35:04] <barjunk> thanks
[17:36:27] <furrywolf> heh, I can watch it sort-of-real-time by specifying an obnoxiously large cache and pausing when it gets too low
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[18:15:07] <alex4nder> hmm.. 25ns max jitter with a PREEMPT_RT kernel
[18:15:09] <alex4nder> sound reasonable?
[18:16:11] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[18:19:43] <MrSunshine> hmm, i need to make a dirt drill ... so i plan on getting discs cut with a hole in then expand them to make the screw part .. question is .. when i do expand these discs to make it go upwards .. will the hole become smaller?
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[18:22:19] <furrywolf> you can get them very cheaply on ebay, if it's just for your own use, not a customer asking you to make them.
[18:22:26] <furrywolf> I got a 6" and an 8" for a total of $65 shipped
[18:23:14] <furrywolf> but, yes, the holes will become smaller
[18:23:25] <MrSunshine> its for my own use but i dont want to pay for it when i got access to cnc plasma, i got material and pipe :P
[18:23:37] <MrSunshine> question is .. how much .. how much bigger should i make the hole =)
[18:23:44] <furrywolf> enough. :P
[18:24:14] <furrywolf> I don't think it gets much smaller, only a little bit, as you can't stretch each disc out much
[18:24:23] <furrywolf> do a prototype, stretch, measure?
[18:25:27] <MrSunshine> yeah i wonder if just ordenary stiff paper will show the same as metal would =)
[18:25:32] <furrywolf> probably
[18:25:49] <furrywolf> paper is very stable in the flat dimension
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[18:26:40] <furrywolf> I need to weld up an adapter for putting the ebay augers onto my machine... got the metal all cut and ready to well, just been too busy with the sculpture to finish it.
[18:26:42] <SpeedEvil> For bonus points, make the steel spiral come off, and pack flat in one solid cylinder.
[18:26:46] <MrSunshine> then drill 4 plinths to put my cnc machine on ... to make it floating it relation to the floor in the workshop =)
[18:27:06] <furrywolf> my machine has a 7/8" square output, while the ebay augers have a 3/4" round input.
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[18:27:27] <SpeedEvil> 7/8 male?
[18:27:31] <furrywolf> yes
[18:27:57] <SpeedEvil> that sounds like a bit of square tubing, with one end swaged round might almost work
[18:28:19] <MrSunshine> tho gonna make it extendable .. as i plan on trying to drill like 1.5 meters under ground for the machine supports =)
[18:28:23] <furrywolf> http://www.groundhoginc.com/productview.php?iProductID=5 that's the one I have.
[18:28:24] <MrSunshine> + 50cm up to floor level
[18:28:52] <furrywolf> there is no standard tubing size with a 7/8" ID. I ended up making it out of 1.5" od with 3/16" wall with strips of 1/8" stuffed in.
[18:29:11] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: ah
[18:29:24] <furrywolf> 1+1/4" with 3/16" wall would be perfect, except you have to special order it because it's pretty much nonexistant...
[18:29:48] <furrywolf> MrSunshine: what're you using to spin it?
[18:30:17] * SpeedEvil ponders how many horsepower you get per coed in a bikini.
[18:30:37] <FinboySlick> Depends on the horse.
[18:30:37] <furrywolf> ?
[18:30:43] <MrSunshine> furrywolf: gasoline engine .. my sister and her husband has a earth drilling motor
[18:30:59] <MrSunshine> can use drills up to 200mm
[18:31:05] <furrywolf> and they won't let you borrow a bit to go with it? :)
[18:31:24] <SpeedEvil> MrSunshine: also - hiring bobcats with screw augers on the front can be remarkably cheap
[18:31:26] <MrSunshine> the only have 100mm bit
[18:31:33] <SpeedEvil> MrSunshine: if you've got >>1 to do
[18:31:41] <MrSunshine> SpeedEvil: well its inside my workshop :P
[18:31:47] <MrSunshine> and its not accessable by a bobcat :P
[18:31:47] <archivist> he is doing this indoors
[18:31:50] <furrywolf> mine does 12" (305mm), but I only have the 6" and 8" bits I got.
[18:31:56] <SpeedEvil> MrSunshine: well - yet.
[18:32:05] <MrSunshine> im going to cut 4 holes in the wood floor to be able to reach the ground =)
[18:32:19] <furrywolf> be warned if the machine only claims 200mm max, it's a small/light-duty machine.
[18:32:27] <archivist> I still say fix the machine rather than pile driving
[18:32:39] <furrywolf> main is fairly light duty and still claims 305mm. heh.
[18:32:50] <MrSunshine> archivist: the machine rocks the floor
[18:32:56] <MrSunshine> pulls it with it
[18:33:08] <MrSunshine> i need something more stirdy =)
[18:33:16] <furrywolf> rubber. :P
[18:33:17] <SpeedEvil> MrSunshine: you're going to try putting in concrete piles?
[18:33:24] <MrSunshine> SpeedEvil: yes
[18:33:44] <MrSunshine> worst case .. i have to patch some holes in the floor =)
[18:34:25] <MrSunshine> good ground to drill .. very compact clay that wont cave in so going slow, cleaning the screw often and i should be able to go quite deep =)
[18:34:40] <SpeedEvil> MrSunshine: Or you fall down the hole, and your leg gets trapped in the setting concrete, and you have to cut your leg off with a spoon
[18:34:49] <furrywolf> no, worst case is you drill through a buried pipe and get electrocuted and/or soaked in water and/or sewage and/or blow your entire shops to bits with natural gas...
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[18:35:12] <MrSunshine> furrywolf: no natural gas in sweden .. if i find natural gas down there i would jump for joy
[18:35:19] <MrSunshine> no cables in the ground there
[18:35:26] <MrSunshine> and no sewage either
[18:35:27] <MrSunshine> =)
[18:35:29] <SpeedEvil> just keep your spoon handy. It's no fun doing it without a spoon.
[18:35:55] <furrywolf> just remember, things can always get worse. :P
[18:36:02] <MrSunshine> SpeedEvil: yeah .. strapped in setting concrete .. now that scenario i can see ... :P
[18:38:04] <furrywolf> is the one you're borrowing a one-person or two?
[18:38:21] <MrSunshine> one person i think .. atleast with the 100mm drill
[18:38:52] <furrywolf> mine's a two... I could use it by myself, but it's over 100lbs once you have a bit on it, so unwieldly.
[18:40:56] <furrywolf> also, when it hits something, there's a good risk you spin instead of it. :)
[18:41:31] <SpeedEvil> several bits of 2*4 and sorted
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[18:43:49] <archivist> wee sent them a question "Could you tell me how you get .01mm accuracy" for the top of the range model http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ballscrew-CNC-Machine-MDL-A4-BSX-Mach3-ATC-Tool-Changer-4th-Axis-3D-Scanner-/310562732677
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[18:45:26] <MrSunshine> very good ground like i said .. there is no rocks .. just clay then some very coars sand further down
[18:45:58] <MrSunshine> furrywolf: i guess thats what a "break-pin" is for ? :P
[18:46:09] <furrywolf> no, mine has a SQUARE drive, remember? :P
[18:46:19] <MrSunshine> the joints in the extensions will be bolted with 2 bolts or so ... then a break pin by the motor =)
[18:46:21] <MrSunshine> haha
[18:46:26] <MrSunshine> very nice :P
[18:46:45] <furrywolf> you either stall it, break something expensive, or get a free merry-go-round ride.
[18:47:34] <archivist> or let go of the handle and therefore it turns itself off
[18:48:40] <_methods> those things love ribs
[18:48:46] <_methods> breaking ribs that is
[18:48:46] <MrSunshine> archivist: you know that those safety handles are always jerry rigged :P
[18:48:50] <furrywolf> parts have rotational intertia...
[18:48:54] <furrywolf> inertia
[18:52:01] <MrSunshine> on these drills .. are the cutting part long or short ?
[18:52:03] <MrSunshine> or the screw part
[18:52:35] <MrSunshine> damn .. they had a very high pitch
[18:53:41] <furrywolf> by cutting part you mean the flutes/flighting? it's usually around 3ft/1m.
[18:53:54] <MrSunshine> huh ?
[18:53:58] <MrSunshine> 3ft/m ? :P
[18:54:03] <MrSunshine> 3 feet per meter? :P
[18:54:28] <MrSunshine> furrywolf: thats a damn high pitch if the pitch is 3 threads/meter
[18:55:07] <furrywolf> I think my 8" has three threads in 30".
[18:55:44] <SpeedEvil> yeah - look on the interent
[18:55:46] <SpeedEvil> for the images
[18:55:47] <MrSunshine> but i guess thats not very important .. .even a lower pitch will do the job i guess? that sounds like its optimized for speed? =)
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[18:55:50] <SpeedEvil> they're pretty steep
[18:56:26] <SpeedEvil> the shallowe the pitch, the more likely it is to clog
[18:57:10] <MrSunshine> this will be a "fun" project i feel =)
[18:57:20] <SpeedEvil> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=earth+drill&client=firefox-a&hs=14c&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=4x5iVbP1BceyswHV1YKQCA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1067&bih=666
[18:57:25] <SpeedEvil> the pitches are all pretty similar
[18:58:32] * furrywolf decided giving ebay the $65 and having two premade bits show up fedex was easier
[18:59:15] <MrSunshine> but i find it a nice project also .. then the owners of the motor can have the drill afterwards =)
[18:59:19] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[19:00:43] <MrSunshine> got some rainy days ahead so i can tinker with this .. just gotta get the discs cut tomorrow as the dude with the nc plasma goes away for work like 1 - 2 weeks on thuesday
[19:01:39] <furrywolf> thuesday, eh?
[19:02:21] * furrywolf tries to figure out which that is
[19:02:33] <MrSunshine> haha
[19:02:39] <MrSunshine> sorry ... im enrish is bad :P
[19:02:43] <MrSunshine> day afte rmonday :P
[19:02:51] <MrSunshine> thirsday ?
[19:03:05] <furrywolf> tuesday. :P
[19:03:12] <furrywolf> thursday is three after
[19:03:12] <MrSunshine> Tuesday
[19:03:24] <furrywolf> thuesday is halfway between them! :P
[19:03:34] <MrSunshine> ffs
[19:03:41] * MrSunshine kicks some random stuff around himself!
[19:03:51] <MrSunshine> Tisdag!
[19:03:55] <MrSunshine> its named in sweden
[19:03:58] <MrSunshine> very good name
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[19:11:37] <furrywolf> should I have a nice healthy salad for breakfast, or some nice meaty tamales? I'm leaning towards the latter.
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[19:18:45] <barjunk> When you set Home for Z, is it normally set to above material height?
[19:18:53] <barjunk> Just at?
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[19:28:04] <furrywolf> machine home is usually as far up as the axis can go
[19:28:26] <furrywolf> for your part, it's wherever you wrote your g-code to assume it is... the top of the stock is a good location.
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[19:36:12] <barjunk> I was just looking for "best practice"...I realize my situation is a little different.
[19:37:35] <barjunk> I think linuxcnc is sending the gcode too fast for the gear...so I'm trying to figure out how to slow that down.
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[19:39:57] <barjunk> Maybe [EMCIO] CYCLE_TIME?
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[19:59:58] <zeeshan-mill> hi guys
[20:00:11] <furrywolf> and wolfies!
[20:00:18] <zeeshan-mill> im running 2.6.5, i have show velocity checked under the view menu
[20:00:22] <zeeshan-mill> but it shouldnt show velocity
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[20:00:58] <zeeshan-mill> i see x y z, dtg x y z, g54 x y z r, g92 x y z, tlo x y z
[20:01:03] <zeeshan-mill> hi furry
[20:01:45] <zeeshan-mill> i really gotta build a nozzle for the mill
[20:01:49] <zeeshan-mill> holding it by hand sux
[20:03:51] <barjunk> furrywolf: think I found it....max velocity was set too high and emcio cycle time needed to be bigger ...I'll do further testing
[20:04:19] <barjunk> I'm not sure at this point if the emcio cycle time had much impact on it...
[20:04:42] <barjunk> I know better than to change more than one variable during testing... :)
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[20:07:10] <cmorley> zeeshan-mill: uncheck 'show offsets' then I think you will see velocity
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[20:08:00] <furrywolf> you need to also know better than to change anything without reading up on what it does. :)
[20:08:09] <MrSunshine> hmm, axis should show table coordinates when you points somewhere with the mouse
[20:08:12] <MrSunshine> or job coordinates
[20:08:17] <MrSunshine> would be neat
[20:09:03] <zeeshan-mill> cmorley you are right
[20:09:07] <zeeshan-mill> isnt there a way to see both?
[20:09:18] <cmorley> no
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[20:09:34] <barjunk> furrywolf: sometimes trial and error is the only way I fully understand what the words say...
[20:09:38] <cmorley> offsets are always shown in the other tab though
[20:10:53] <zeeshan-mill> okay :D
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[20:11:10] <barjunk> in the AXIS gui there is a max velocity setting...where does it get that from?
[20:11:30] <zeeshan-mill> i really like the tlo x y z
[20:11:36] <zeeshan-mill> it stopped a massive crash from happenign
[20:11:54] <cmorley> Under [DISPLAY] in the INI file
[20:11:57] <zeeshan-mill> i noticed it was completely out cause i had accidently set the offset for the incorrect tool
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[20:14:29] <barjunk> OK. I never would have thought to look there for that...but now I know.
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[20:15:03] <cmorley> zeeshan-mill: put in a feature request for velocity with offsets :)
[20:17:14] <zeeshan-mill> cmorley i dont think its really necessary since youre right the tlo is inthe other tab
[20:17:18] <zeeshan-mill> and you dont need to see them allthe time
[20:17:44] <furrywolf> meh. I hate being sick.
[20:17:55] <jdh> have you tried counseling?
[20:18:04] <furrywolf> ?
[20:18:06] <cmorley> seeing all the offset info on the plot screen can be cluttered if the screen is small too
[20:18:34] <cmorley> suggesting you were mentally sick
[20:18:46] <cmorley> he was ^^
[20:18:51] * jdh nods
[20:18:53] <furrywolf> "now, cold virus... would you like to talk about your childhood? did you decide to ruin people's lives because of issues with your mother?"
[20:19:05] <jdh> it was funny to me. good enough.
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[20:22:28] <zeeshan-mill> jdh lathe done
[20:22:29] <zeeshan-mill> ?
[20:22:53] * zeeshan-mill trolls
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[20:24:31] <jdh> heh.
[20:24:34] <jdh> nope :(
[20:24:40] <zeeshan-mill> =[
[20:24:45] <jdh> I think I will just put it back stock and sell it.
[20:24:54] <zeeshan-mill> =/
[20:25:02] <zeeshan-mill> lost interest?
[20:25:26] <jdh> it is amazing that it can be that much bigger than a 7x, but more or less, worse.
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[20:28:48] <treid> Does anybody with experience with wiring resolvers know why my retrofit would have the sin+ and cos- wires soldered to the same pin?
[20:29:52] <barjunk> cmorley is that MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY? none of the info in the docs shows only MAX_VELOCITY in the DISPLAY section
[20:30:30] <cmorley> yes I believe thats the one
[20:30:52] <barjunk> OK. I'll give it a shot
[20:31:31] <cmorley> you are trying to limit the max jog speed?
[20:31:33] <zeeshan-mill> barjunk,
[20:31:55] <cmorley> or max velocity period
[20:32:28] <zeeshan-mill> DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0.250000
[20:32:28] <zeeshan-mill> MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 3.333333
[20:32:28] <zeeshan-mill> MIN_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0.005000
[20:32:45] <zeeshan-mill> this will just change your slider amount
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[20:36:50] <barjunk> zeeshan-mill: OK...trying that next.
[20:37:10] <barjunk> just trying to change what the slider shows on start up...
[20:37:29] <cmorley> which slider?
[20:37:44] <barjunk> Are those three multiplied together to get the slider amount?
[20:38:05] <cmorley> those are in units per second
[20:38:07] <zeeshan-mill> barjunk, those values are in inches pers
[20:38:41] <barjunk> OK.
[20:38:45] <barjunk> To be clear, I
[20:39:04] <barjunk> I'm trying to set the slider on the display to something other than 60..
[20:39:12] <barjunk> when the program starts up.
[20:39:20] <cmorley> which slider?
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[20:39:29] <barjunk> the MAX_VELOCITY slider
[20:39:29] <cmorley> sounds like jog slider
[20:40:17] <barjunk> I think it is...but it doesn't say on the screen.
[20:40:36] <barjunk> only has MAX_VELOCITY marked to the left of the actual slider
[20:40:52] <barjunk> just below FEED_OVERRIDE
[20:41:10] <zeeshan-mill> what are you trying to do
[20:41:28] <barjunk> make that slider be 25.5 when the program starts.
[20:41:32] <cmorley> AXIS will also check the [TRAJ] and [AXIS 0] entries to see what is permissible
[20:42:38] <barjunk> What I know is that when I set that slider to 25.5, the machine performs as expected...so I just wanted to set that value with the ini file.
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[20:46:10] <barjunk> So how does it calculate that sliders value?
[20:46:33] <cmorley> sounds like your machine is mis-configured then :) AXIS assumes that max velocity is to be set at whatever you told linuxcnc the motors can move at.
[20:46:45] <cmorley> mv = inifile.find("DISPLAY","MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY") or inifile.find("TRAJ","MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY") or inifile.find("TRAJ","MAX_VELOCITY") or inifile.find("AXIS_0","MAX_VELOCITY") or 1.0
[20:46:45] <cmorley> vars.maxvel_speed.set(float(mv)*60)
[20:46:53] <cmorley> thats how :)
[20:47:04] <barjunk> :)
[20:47:51] <barjunk> OK...so in my case it is finding 1.0, cause it is always 60...I'll poke around again...thanks for that cmorley
[20:48:15] <cmorley> hope i helped :)
[20:48:19] <cmorley> later
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[21:16:29] <archivist> is class 5 ballscrew the worst or best :)
[21:24:36] <archivist> oops, that mill I pointed at earlier, I have a reply claims a class5 ballscrew (20microns in 300mm) gets them an accuracy of 10 microns !
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[21:31:35] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:31:25] <andypugh> Why do noew folks seem to think that they can’t possibly start wiring anythign up until they have latency numbers down in single-digit microseconds?
[22:31:54] <furrywolf> because the website makes a huge deal of it in about 147 places
[22:32:11] <furrywolf> and how doom and gloom will happen if you don't select the perfect system
[22:32:31] <andypugh> Yes. but it also says that 25k is OK and 50k might be OK.
[22:32:40] * furrywolf happily runs linuxcnc on a laptop. :P
[22:32:50] <Tom_itx> even more ok with mesa hardware
[22:33:15] <furrywolf> also, with parport, 50k will give you crap speed with most mill conversions.
[22:33:30] <Tom_itx> andypugh do you happen to know if the fpga firmware is downloadable somewhere?
[22:33:41] <Tom_itx> i'll probably have to wait and ask pcw
[22:33:50] <furrywolf> I know that it is, however I do not know where.
[22:34:00] <andypugh> Which FPGA firmware?
[22:34:04] <furrywolf> I've seen conversations about upgrading it
[22:34:08] <Tom_itx> 5i24
[22:34:13] <andypugh> Bitfiles?
[22:34:15] <Tom_itx> no
[22:34:20] <Tom_itx> i have bitfiles
[22:34:26] <Tom_itx> i think i borked the FPGA
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[22:34:45] <Tom_itx> the jumper wasn't 'default' when i downloaded the bitfile
[22:35:19] <Tom_itx> i should have checked but figured it would be default since i hadn't touched it
[22:35:30] <andypugh> Does the 5i24 have a flashed firmware then ? 5i23 etc load it every startup
[22:35:32] <furrywolf> there's recovery steps in some of the manuals, with jtag as the last resort...
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[22:35:42] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure
[22:35:47] <Tom_itx> probably so
[22:35:47] <andypugh> Looks like you want mesaflash
[22:35:54] <Tom_itx> i have mesaflash
[22:36:11] <Tom_itx> the pc won't boot with the card in it
[22:36:28] <Tom_itx> so i need to jtag the firmware
[22:36:45] <furrywolf> there's a jumper to disable part of the pci interface, at least on one of them.
[22:36:50] <andypugh> Ohh, that’s an interesting int
[22:36:53] <andypugh> (one)
[22:37:01] <furrywolf> for exactly that issue
[22:37:20] <Tom_itx> so it'll take 2 pcs to recover
[22:37:27] <Tom_itx> one to power it and one to jtag it
[22:37:50] <andypugh> I might need a 5i24 myself, there is something up with my 5i23
[22:38:12] <Tom_itx> mine's actually a 6i24
[22:38:20] <Tom_itx> but takes all the 5i24 firmware
[22:38:31] <furrywolf> manual says set jumper W9 to down to disable the pci bus interface
[22:38:35] <furrywolf> for the 5i24
[22:38:41] <andypugh> I assume you already downloaded http://www.mesanet.com/software/parallel/5i24.zip ?
[22:39:15] <Tom_itx> that's just bitfiles i think
[22:39:25] <Tom_itx> and yeah i have a 5i24.zip
[22:39:25] <furrywolf> hrmm, looks like the 6i24 might not have it
[22:39:28] <andypugh> And mesaflash, and source code
[22:39:32] <Tom_itx> yup
[22:39:36] <Tom_itx> new just compiled it
[22:39:55] <furrywolf> what happens if you boot with W10 down on the 6i24?
[22:40:05] <Tom_itx> haven't tried it
[22:40:19] <furrywolf> W10 down loads defaults into the pcie bridge chip
[22:40:27] <andypugh> Well why not? You have had several seconds
[22:41:16] <Tom_itx> W10 was down when i flashed it
[22:41:23] <Tom_itx> that's the problem
[22:41:59] <furrywolf> hrmm. from the wording of the manual, the eeprom for the pcie stuff should have been disabled then.
[22:42:18] <Tom_itx> so it points to the backup location
[22:42:21] <Tom_itx> which i borked
[22:45:37] <furrywolf> the manual makes it sound like W10 disables reading from the bridge eeprom, not switches to a backup location... but I guess the defaults must be stored somewhere...
[22:45:48] <micges> Tom_itx: 6i24 should boot even with borked flash
[22:45:58] <furrywolf> did it stop working after you flashed, or after you set w10 back up?
[22:46:04] <Tom_itx> well it doesn't, it hangs the pc
[22:46:09] <Tom_itx> until i remove it
[22:46:25] <andypugh> Is it connected directly to the PCI slot, or via a riser?
[22:46:44] <Tom_itx> pcie slot on the asrock Q1900m pro3
[22:46:50] <andypugh> I went trhough 4 risers until I found one that actually let the PC boot
[22:47:29] <Tom_itx> i took the short backrail off it for now to test
[22:48:01] <micges> Tom_itx: if you boot pc with your 6i24 you can flash it by mesaflash recovery procedure
[22:48:04] <furrywolf> do you have the bus speed set correctly for 5i24 emulation?
[22:48:20] <furrywolf> micges: his pc isn't booting
[22:48:32] <PetefromTn_> Hey folks
[22:48:34] <micges> Tom_itx: don't need jtag
[22:48:50] <Tom_itx> well i can't seem to get it to boot with the card in it
[22:48:56] <micges> Tom_itx: try other pc
[22:49:11] <Tom_itx> only one with pcie
[22:49:14] <furrywolf> W7 down, W9 up?
[22:49:36] <Tom_itx> W7 down W9 up
[22:49:57] <furrywolf> and it still doesn't boot if you set W10 back down?
[22:50:19] <Tom_itx> i'll try it once more
[22:50:27] <furrywolf> the manual makes it sound like it should boot with W10 down even if you screw it up badly. heh.
[22:50:49] <Tom_itx> i told you i did
[22:50:58] <Tom_itx> but it's fixable
[22:51:07] <furrywolf> you apparantly screwed it up even more than the manual author suspected was possible.
[22:51:10] <furrywolf> lol
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[22:52:11] <Tom_itx> nope not even the bios screen
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[22:52:20] <Tom_itx> fans are running
[22:52:56] <Tom_itx> i've got an old jtag but i don't think it will work on this
[22:52:59] <furrywolf> fun.
[22:53:04] <Tom_itx> gettin another one
[22:53:24] <furrywolf> last person with this issue had it in the slot backwards, but that was pci, not pcie...
[22:53:49] <Tom_itx> ok one sec
[22:54:06] <Tom_itx> i tried the pcie 16 slot and it's booting
[22:54:09] <andypugh> Is that even possible?
[22:54:20] <furrywolf> andypugh: apparantly yes with pci. someone in here did it!
[22:54:31] <andypugh> They must have used a big hammer
[22:54:41] <Tom_itx> ok i moved W10 up and put it in the pcie 16 slot and at least it boots
[22:54:53] <furrywolf> that's odd. it shouldn't care which slot it's in.
[22:54:53] <Tom_itx> lemme try mesaflash now
[22:55:35] <furrywolf> unless your bios stored some configuration information that makes it break... does pcie do that? I remember hearing about needing to do bios resets occasionally with broken pci devices, but that was a looong time ago.
[22:56:26] <Tom_itx> mesaflash: no board found
[22:56:57] <furrywolf> well, on the plus side, now you only need one pc to jtag it.
[22:57:23] <micges> Tom_itx: ./mesaflash --device 6i24 --recovery
[22:57:37] <Tom_itx> says currently only 5i25 for that
[22:57:42] <Tom_itx> 6*
[22:58:07] <Tom_itx> and pcw said i'm supposed to use 5i24 for the 6i24
[22:58:10] <Tom_itx> so which one?
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[22:58:22] <micges> newest mf?
[22:58:28] <Tom_itx> as of today yes
[22:58:31] <Tom_itx> from your git
[22:58:32] <micges> hold on
[22:58:55] <furrywolf> the manual doesn't say what happens if you flash with W10 down, but it makes it sound like it shouldn't have broken things... might be a question for someone who knows what exactly W10 does, as the manual only says it disables reading the bridge eeprom, and shouldn't affect flashing.
[22:59:15] <Tom_itx> -- recover: No 5I24 board found
[22:59:25] <Tom_itx> did i mention i borked it?
[22:59:33] <micges> in what way?
[22:59:44] <Tom_itx> W10 was down when i loaded the bitfile
[22:59:52] <Tom_itx> and i wasn't aware of it
[23:01:41] <furrywolf> what're your LEDs doing?
[23:01:51] <micges> yeah default bridge values could direct bitflow somewhere else, but to be sure pcw must step in
[23:02:02] <micges> give me few minutes to check recovery option
[23:02:11] <Tom_itx> ok
[23:02:12] <furrywolf> I'm guessing both red?
[23:02:27] <Tom_itx> leds are red / yellow
[23:03:22] <furrywolf> hrmm, so it thinks it configured correctly
[23:04:08] <micges> Tom_itx: please pastebin your lspci -vvkn
[23:04:21] <Tom_itx> gimme a sec
[23:04:28] <furrywolf> or the manual is wrong. it seems to contradict itself. says they're both red on one page, then red and yellow on the next page.
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[23:05:44] <furrywolf> if page 16 is right, then red and yellow means it utterly failed at configuration, which is probably correct. page 15 disagrees.
[23:07:22] <Tom_itx> now it's not booting in the pcie16 slot
[23:10:18] <micges> ok got it, you must try: mesaflash --device 6i25 --recovery
[23:10:28] <Tom_itx> ?
[23:10:34] <Tom_itx> even if it's a 6i24?
[23:10:54] <Tom_itx> it's not the same FPGA btw too
[23:11:02] <Tom_itx> this is a 256 pin chip not 144
[23:11:03] <micges> --recovery don't recognise difference between 6i25 and 6i24, backup protocol is the same
[23:11:24] <micges> recovery protocol*
[23:11:39] <furrywolf> should he set the bus jumpers to 66mhz before doing that?
[23:12:09] <micges> I don't think so
[23:12:39] <Tom_itx> http://paste.debian.net/183133
[23:12:48] <micges> I didn't done that ever with my 6i25 on tests
[23:13:02] <Tom_itx> W10 up or down during that?
[23:13:26] <Tom_itx> -- recovery that is..
[23:14:11] <micges> w10 up
[23:15:16] <micges> w10 is for bridge eeprom, mesaflash don't have any write access to that so can't be broken during flashing
[23:15:46] * furrywolf doesn't see the mesa card in that lspci
[23:16:02] <micges> so default (up) should be set
[23:17:04] <Tom_itx> No 5i25 board found
[23:17:27] <micges> I don't see 5i24 bridge on lspci
[23:17:32] <micges> 6i24*
[23:19:37] <furrywolf> I'm guessing the card is not talking to the computer at all, if it's not in lspci... which would mean jtag.
[23:20:02] <micges> bridge should be visible
[23:20:11] <Tom_itx> furrywolf i indicated that early on here
[23:20:32] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: yes, you did. but the manual suggests that should never happen. lol
[23:20:58] <Tom_itx> never say never
[23:20:58] <micges> 5i25 have only fpga, 6i25 have bridge and fpga, same for 5i24 and 6i24
[23:21:15] <micges> and bridge should be visible even if fpga is locked
[23:21:23] <furrywolf> what does W10 do, exactly? got a schematic handy?
[23:21:35] <Tom_itx> jumpers the enable for the eeprom
[23:21:39] <Tom_itx> i think
[23:21:53] <micges> pcie bridge eeprom
[23:22:04] <furrywolf> if that really is all it does, flashing should have not affected the pci bridge setup at all, so it should still be working...
[23:23:05] <micges> ok Im lost
[23:23:17] <micges> Tom_itx: does 6i24 boot?
[23:23:27] <micges> Tom_itx: does pc with 6i24 boot?
[23:23:29] <Tom_itx> not unless i hotplug it
[23:23:37] <Tom_itx> it did once in the pcie16 slot
[23:23:53] <Tom_itx> but not in the pci1
[23:23:57] <Tom_itx> pcie1
[23:24:04] <micges> I don't believe hotpluging
[23:24:11] <Tom_itx> i don't either
[23:24:21] <micges> does it boot either with w10 down or up?
[23:24:26] <Tom_itx> no
[23:24:31] <furrywolf> once per slot. :)
[23:24:36] <micges> hehe
[23:25:15] <furrywolf> I know very little about pcie, having never owned a computer new enough to have it... does the bios store any configuration settings for pcie cards that could store garbage and make it not boot the second time?
[23:25:18] <micges> then you need to check board with orther pcie pc
[23:26:09] <furrywolf> booting once is an odd symptom
[23:26:30] <Tom_itx> i could try this one i suppose
[23:27:06] <Tom_itx> micges do you know the bitfile size for a 5i24 / 6i24 bitfile?
[23:27:22] <Tom_itx> these are bigger chips than the others it seems
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[23:28:19] <micges> I *think* it should be twice as big as 5i25 bitfile, 5i25 have 8Mbit flash and 5i24 have 16Mbit
[23:28:20] <Tom_itx> 5i24 is around 783k compared to a 7i90 which is around 333.3k here
[23:28:50] <Tom_itx> sounds about right then
[23:29:57] <micges> yes 7i90 have also 8Mbit
[23:30:01] <Tom_itx> i'm pretty sure it's gonna take jtag to fix this
[23:30:41] <Tom_itx> so the bitfile was good, i just moved it from the 7i90 to the 5i24 and recompiled it for the right target
[23:31:48] <micges> also it shouldn't be possible to hard lock 6i24 to not see it in lspci
[23:32:24] <SpeedEvil> not quite on-topic.
[23:32:29] <SpeedEvil> Does nayone happen to recall enough details to google a 'from the beginning' genetic gait optimisation for robots?
[23:32:34] <furrywolf> in theory, there's no difference between theory and reality. :)
[23:32:36] <micges> but never say never in pc config area
[23:33:00] <SpeedEvil> This was several years ago, and involved both optimising the 'muscle' placement on the robot, as well as the gait controlling programming
[23:33:20] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: so you're looking for a paper on the subject?
[23:33:45] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Tehre was a nice youtube video on it, with virtual robots stumbling around, then getting better
[23:33:56] <SpeedEvil> as well as a paper I want to refer someone to
[23:34:33] <furrywolf> https://vimeo.com/79098420 maybe? (I can't watch it)
[23:35:36] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL0ajYq8A_0
[23:35:43] <SpeedEvil> Aha
[23:35:46] <SpeedEvil> the exact one!
[23:36:00] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yci5FuI1ovk
[23:36:01] <SpeedEvil> (the first)
[23:36:05] <furrywolf> I'll stop googling then. :P
[23:39:21] <furrywolf> as to papers... I really, really wish open access would catch on in a big way.
[23:40:25] <furrywolf> the whole "only the elite should have access to research" thing is a serious hinderance to progress, both for tinkerers and for society at a whole...
[23:42:22] <SpeedEvil> yes
[23:42:37] <FinboySlick> Anyone here plays with HSMWorks?
[23:42:51] <SpeedEvil> Also - to bring this back on topic.
[23:43:05] <SpeedEvil> Most of this paper is in principle exactly applicable to machine tools.
[23:43:39] <SpeedEvil> you replace the 'gait' fitness function with one that models the aspect of the machine you care about, and then it optimises control strategies and placement of actuators.
[23:43:51] <furrywolf> on a slightly-related issue, can I make a cage-less ball bearing ball joint/heim joint, for a joint with limited repetitive movement? I'm thinking having the balls in slots the size of the movement, so if they slowly drift, the ends of the slots nudges them back.
[23:44:02] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgaEE27nsQw
[23:44:06] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ics.uci.edu/~rickl/courses/cs-271/lit/2013-TOG-MuscleBasedBipeds.pdf ratehr
[23:44:29] <SpeedEvil> Well, making cages isn't that hard
[23:44:36] <SpeedEvil> is loading low?
[23:44:41] <SpeedEvil> and speed?
[23:44:48] <furrywolf> moderate loading, low speed
[23:45:12] <SpeedEvil> enough balls to just about fill, and grease, and it mostly works
[23:45:14] <furrywolf> con rod to crosshead on a piston, where the con rod can move in both axis
[23:45:49] <SpeedEvil> you mean for hydraulics, not an engine?
[23:45:49] <furrywolf> (swashplate instead of crank)
[23:45:52] <furrywolf> yes
[23:46:05] <furrywolf> although swashplate engines do exist
[23:46:21] <SpeedEvil> Damn near every sort of engine seems to exist.
[23:46:30] <furrywolf> yes
[23:46:34] <SpeedEvil> And be just ten thousand of your dollars from taking over the world.
[23:46:42] <furrywolf> given as most of society runs on them, there's been a lot of work in that area.
[23:47:30] * SpeedEvil discovers a new way academics discourage people.
[23:47:35] <SpeedEvil> Having very silly names.
[23:47:42] <furrywolf> ?
[23:47:42] <FinboySlick> It's a bit of a shame though. We spent so much time refining the venerable piston+cranksaft engine that even if some designs could be better, just getting to the same level of refinement would be terribly difficult.
[23:47:55] <SpeedEvil> Thomas is OK, but Geijtenbeek ?
[23:47:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:48:09] <furrywolf> ... are you making fun of foreign names? heh
[23:49:03] <SpeedEvil> On the plus side, he's easily googlable
[23:49:21] <furrywolf> recent events have re-spurred development of my specialized hydraulic pump/motor... I could use a gimbal for the conrod to crosshead, but that's a lot of parts, while a ball-bearing heim joint might just be a bit of 5-axis machine work and a few balls...
[23:49:59] <furrywolf> same for the conrod to swashplate
[23:50:33] <furrywolf> I can see it in my head with the balls rolling but staying in their assigned slots, so I think it should work... lol
[23:50:33] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[23:51:05] <furrywolf> if you only have limited motion, and only a few balls, you can essentially machine the cage into the ball
[23:51:56] <furrywolf> they'll nicely roll back and forth over the same area, but if they slowly drift, they hit the edge of the slots and get forced back, rather than being able to slowly wander until they bunch/fall out/etc.
[23:52:15] <furrywolf> (the ball of the ball joint, not the individual balls)
[23:52:58] <furrywolf> I don't think I've ever seen a hydraulic pump with crossheads. :)
[23:53:16] <SpeedEvil> It's one of those frustrating 'is there a good reason why I've never seen'...
[23:53:32] <furrywolf> lol
[23:53:40] <SpeedEvil> and then you are answered in an exploding shower of red-hot metal.
[23:53:53] <SpeedEvil> Or alternatively 'nobody had 5 axis mills in the 40s'
[23:54:30] <furrywolf> how about "it has ten times the pieces to only give an improvement for a very specialized application no one uses them for"?
[23:55:14] <SpeedEvil> that too
[23:55:40] <furrywolf> the manufacturing cost of these will be astronomical compared to a standard pump/motor.
[23:55:49] <SpeedEvil> What's the plus?
[23:55:52] <SpeedEvil> In principle.
[23:56:19] <furrywolf> high efficiency and no stiction even when operated at very low rpm or with a locked output shaft (for motor use) for long periods.
[23:56:45] <furrywolf> in stall conditions, the plain ball joints and skirted pistons squish their oil out and stick
[23:57:49] <furrywolf> given as roughly 100% of hydraulic systems are continually rotating at decent rpm, this is a non-issue.
[23:58:03] <furrywolf> and they don't need extremely high efficiency
[23:58:15] -!- moorbo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[23:59:06] <furrywolf> my design also uses poppet valves rather than a valve plate, again for the same two reasons... valve plates don't like stopping rotating, causing stiction, and they leak to keep themselves lubricated, causing lower efficiency.