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[00:01:16] <SpeedEvil> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32899.0;attach=543853 1kWe reactor in several hundred kilos
[00:01:22] <SpeedEvil> oops - wrong channel
[00:02:00] <furrywolf> two electrical cord questions... first, don't you really hate when you install a plug, then find that the outer shell had slid off the cable and is sitting on the floor?
[00:02:28] <jdh> only the first few times
[00:03:33] <furrywolf> second, I'm making an adapter plug for my jobsite power box, that plugs into a 50A range outlet. I noticed the 50A range cord I bought is only 6/2 and 8/2, with the neutral and ground being undersized compared to the hots. I assume this is ok for a range, since most of the load is 240, not 120, so the neutral never sees much use. but is this acceptable for a jobsite power box, where some person may decide to only plug into every other outlet, and put
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[00:10:39] <furrywolf> or should I just assume such a pathalogical load would be temporary at best, and it's only 4ft long anyway? :)
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[00:13:17] <furrywolf> hrmm, southwire says that for a 4-conductor portable cord, #8 is rated for 65A!
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[00:15:10] <alex4nder> furrywolf: yah, I wouldn't worry about that
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[00:15:58] <roycroft> i would say no, furrywolf
[00:16:09] <furrywolf> while allied says 35A. lol
[00:16:26] <roycroft> the neutral should be 6ga
[00:17:23] <roycroft> that cord is perfectly appropriate for a range, however, as you'll never pull a 120vac/60a load on a range
[00:17:51] <roycroft> get yourself a hunk of 6/3 soow
[00:18:00] <tjtr33> andypugh, here's another vismach toolchange
https://youtu.be/46LZGWQUSXo
[00:18:07] <furrywolf> I went to the scrapyard... only 6/4 they had was aaaaancient.
[00:18:17] <roycroft> wait
[00:18:21] <furrywolf> but they did have a perfectly nice new 6/2+8/2 range cord. :)
[00:18:30] <roycroft> is the powerbox fused?
[00:18:36] <furrywolf> powerbox has breakers
[00:18:45] <roycroft> if the 120v receptacles are 20a then you'd be fine
[00:18:50] <furrywolf> yes, they are.
[00:19:16] <roycroft> 40a is pushing it with 8ga wire, but i might do that
[00:19:37] <furrywolf> but it has 6 of them... someone could, in theory, plug something into only every other outlet, and nothing on the others, thus putting the potential full 50A onto the neutral.
[00:19:53] <roycroft> i'm assuming a setup where there's a 50a main breaker and a 20a breaker for each of the 120v legs
[00:19:56] <furrywolf> in reality, it's very unlikely any large continous loads would be plugged into any outlet, much less only every other one. heh.
[00:19:58] <furrywolf> yes
[00:20:06] <roycroft> so you'd be fine
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[00:20:50] * furrywolf didn't realize it only had a #8 neutral until getting it home
[00:21:18] <furrywolf> it appears to be brand new, and it cost $6. I love the scrapyard. :)
[00:21:34] * furrywolf felt bad cutting off the nice crimped on lugs to stick the wire in the connector
[00:22:51] <zeeshan|2> ;]
[00:23:13] <furrywolf> I was thinking of getting some 6/4 and making a longer one, but as I said, the only 6/4 they had was ancient, and I'm sure as heck not buying 6/4 new.
[00:23:42] <furrywolf> they had some 6/4 last time I was there, but I didn't need it then... heh
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[00:25:43] <SpeedEvil> Just get whatever, and then plait your own wires.
[00:26:49] <furrywolf> always amazes me how much perfectly good and/or brand new stuff gets scrapped
[00:26:56] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[00:29:16] <furrywolf> this range cord is new... there's no scrapes on the blades suggesting it was ever plugged in, nor screw marks on the now-cut-off terminals.
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[00:52:37] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/spo/5028103979.html I've never been interested in skateboards, but that's cute.
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[01:40:57] <postaL> anyone here have a cncrouterparts benchtop setup?
[01:50:23] <Valen> So I'm thinking of pairing up
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_90&product_id=149 and
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema34/nema34-dc-brushless-motor-kl34bls-98-dual-shaft
[01:50:39] <Valen> oh... 48v on the motor
[01:50:43] <Valen> duh, never mind
[01:55:04] <Tom_itx> i wonder if that would make a good smallish spindle motor
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[02:17:28] <Valen> they do sell them (or similar) as such
[02:17:46] <Valen> damn where did I see high voltage motors in the same size for not insane $
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[04:42:13] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/6qB3nAv.jpg
[04:42:17] <zeeshan|2> man this is turning out sweeeeeeeeeeeet
[04:42:24] <zeeshan|2> so much better than my old setup
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[06:33:05] <archivist> zeeshan|2, rats building a nest in the engine compartment? /me ducks and runs
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[06:43:16] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ping
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[06:49:43] <Deejay> moin
[06:58:43] <Valen> so machinists levels, do .001 degree ones exist?
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[06:58:57] <Valen> or are there better ways of doing that task
[07:06:35] <archivist> they are usually described in distance vertical per distance length
[07:07:41] <archivist> eg on one of mine .00025" in 10" .025mm in 1M
[07:09:26] <archivist> in general levels do not measure angle, clinometers do
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[07:11:07] <archivist> and then you may see minutes and seconds of a degree
[07:15:30] <archivist> can estimate to 30 seconds on mine calibrated in degrees/minutes
[07:23:11] <archivist> or use an encoder with a 360000 count resolution
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[11:43:11] <jthornton> zeeshan|2, are you adding the turbos?
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[11:58:17] <norias> oi
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[12:02:17] <Jymmm> pcw_home: wake up
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[13:04:50] <dirty_d> if you were ID thread milling something with a pitch diameter of 0.75" and you found its too tight, and you decide you want to take off another 0.001" you could run G51 X1.0013 Y0.0013 and re-run the thread mill program right?
[13:05:08] <dirty_d> oops Y1.0013
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[13:05:27] <dirty_d> 0.751 / 0.750 = 1.0013
[13:06:44] <dirty_d> last tiem i thread milled i generated 5 programs each 0.001" bigger then the pervious
[13:06:48] <dirty_d> tahts kinda annoying
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[13:08:20] <gromits> A little HAL logic help (to get your morning started ;-) I have a collet opener/closer. I have two solenoids to control it. I can either let the user control them (ie, you MUST close one before opening the other, you MUST insure the spindle isn't running before issuing collet open, etc., etc). OR I can do logic in hal such that issuing a collet open does the right thing (ie, make sure...
[13:08:21] <gromits> ...spindle isn't on or ignore, deactivate closer before activating opener, etc).
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[13:09:49] <gromits> So, for collet close my logic needs to: 1) set collet open to false (close opener solenoid), 2) set collet close to true (open closer solenoid), 3) wait 10s, 4) set collet close to false (take air off cloer solenoid), 5) start a 10 minute timer, 6) when timer expires go to #2.
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[13:12:00] <dirty_d> i didnt notice a timer when i did my hal stuff
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[13:12:40] <gromits> For collet open: 1) check spindle on (if so ignore command), 2) set collet close to false (close closer solenoid), 3) set collet open to true (open opener solenoid), 4) wait 3 seconds, 5) set collet open to false (take air off opener solenoid).
[13:12:49] <dirty_d> but i think you can do this easily in C
[13:14:12] <gromits> Also, if collet open gets called, it should reset all the collet close stuff (ie, don't want timer to cause it to close)
[13:14:39] <gromits> I'd rather do it in hal if possible....
[13:15:10] <dirty_d> whats the point of the 10 minute timer?
[13:15:30] <gromits> I am doing it (sort of) in custom M-codes at the moment but that is frot with danger
[13:15:56] <FinboySlick> Sounds like something that you could do in ladder. This isn't a part of linuxcnc that I'm very familiar with though.
[13:16:01] <gromits> The collet closer needs to have 10s of air applied every 10minutes to ensure the closer stays closed
[13:16:11] <dirty_d> ahh
[13:16:34] <dirty_d> cant just leave the air on?
[13:16:45] <dirty_d> or is the leaking annoying?
[13:17:22] <FinboySlick> Also, if you can, check the spindle encoder to see if it's spinning rather than to see if the spindle is powered.
[13:17:25] <gromits> You CAN leave the air on, but yes it is a bit annoying, and seems like a waste since it doesn't HAVE to be
[13:19:13] <gromits> there is a timedelay component (works like a time delay relay) in HAL...
[13:19:54] <dirty_d> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/timedelay.9.html
[13:19:59] <dirty_d> yeayea
[13:20:40] <dirty_d> just set on delay to 10min and off delay to 0 i guess
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[13:21:47] <dirty_d> sounds a little trickier than what i had to do
[13:23:41] <cradek> sequencing and timers and solenoids, oh my
[13:23:56] <cradek> fwiw, I agree, ladder is good at these things
[13:24:32] <gromits> Hmm, I also don't see a reset on the timedelay component so I couldn't stop it...
[13:24:51] <JT-Shop> ladder...
[13:25:03] <gromits> perhaps ladder is the better option. I have been successful in not using it. Until now...?
[13:25:39] <JT-Shop> it's easy... once you know how
[13:25:51] <gromits> isn't that always the way
[13:26:17] <JT-Shop> sometimes it's still hard once you know how like writing in troff
[13:26:29] <gromits> indeed :-)
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[13:27:13] <gromits> ok, ill return in a some number of (read many) hours after having learned ladder enough to ask any questions at all. thanks.
[13:28:04] <JT-Shop> seen my tutorial on ladder?
[13:28:50] <gromits> no, where?
[13:29:07] <JT-Shop> hmm, it seems to be down at the moment
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[13:29:38] <JT-Shop> opps a copy and paste error on my web site
[13:29:44] <gromits> what is the link (when it's up)?
[13:30:40] <JT-Shop> site is up but I screwed up the linuxcnc menu lol
http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/ladder/
[13:31:22] <gromits> thanks. off to read.
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[13:46:02] <archivist> dirty_d, I regularly mod a program rerun till fits
[13:46:50] <dirty_d> archivist, if its cam created there are too many lines to manually change
[13:47:03] <dirty_d> theres no reason G51 wouldnt work right?
[13:47:22] <archivist> well I use inside rear of skull and have sensible variables :)
[13:48:49] <archivist> last time I did an internal thread I used the lathe anyway, was working to the inner flat as well as fiddling diameter
[13:49:44] <dirty_d> hmm
[13:50:09] <dirty_d> i do all my cad/cam at home and just run the code on the crappy cnc computer
[13:50:29] <dirty_d> and the shop is 15min away, so i need to have my shit together first, lol
[13:51:02] <archivist> I do my coding on the machine I use at the time
[13:52:52] <dirty_d> i only do for simple stuff
[13:52:58] <dirty_d> but i guess thread milling is simple
[13:53:30] <archivist> it is if you cheat and use a rotary :)
[13:53:43] <dirty_d> i have none of that fancy stuff
[13:53:55] <archivist> I was doing that before the helical path existed
[13:54:32] <dirty_d> how was there a time helical interpolation didnt exist at the same time as cnc control?
[13:54:35] <dirty_d> or was taht before cnc
[13:55:33] <dirty_d> seems silly if it did
[13:55:46] <dirty_d> it can alraedy move in a circle, and alraedy move up and down, so just do both at the same time, lol
[13:56:34] <dirty_d> but i guess if it were controlled by the equivilent of a calculator it could be tricky
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[14:25:36] <norias> uh...
[14:25:39] <norias> you'd be surprised
[14:26:02] <norias> not all cnc controllers can do 3 axiis at the same time
[14:26:07] <norias> or do it well, if they can
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[14:50:57] <JT-Shop> raining
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[15:05:48] <CaptHindsight> 30's last night
[15:06:11] <CaptHindsight> was near 90 Monday
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[15:15:44] <dirty_d> removing bearings like thsi damages them right?
https://youtu.be/aec19QVTfwo?t=440
[15:15:56] <dirty_d> the bearing splitter is pulling on the outer race
[15:19:06] <archivist> dont have a lot of choice when bearings are up close
[15:20:11] <dirty_d> so its not possible to remove them without damage?
[15:20:20] <dirty_d> crap, there goes that plan
[15:21:27] <archivist> note he could also tapped the middle thread to send a shockwave down
[15:21:54] <dirty_d> yea
[15:21:59] <dirty_d> maybe it wont damage them
[15:22:12] <dirty_d> i guess the metal could be hard enough not to deform from the pressure
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[15:22:55] <dirty_d> i have a crank with good bearings and a screwed up taper part where the flywheel goes on, and a good crank with bad outer bearings
[15:23:03] <dirty_d> so gonna just try to swap
[15:23:35] * JT-Shop can powder coat without a flashlight now
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[15:23:42] <archivist> the heat can damage surface hardening I usually only use heat on rusted crap
[15:24:21] <dirty_d> yea i dont plan on heat if it can be avoided
[15:24:32] <dirty_d> maybe heat up the other bearing in oil before i put it on
[15:24:44] <archivist> and one does not care for the bearing as much as the crank
[15:25:03] <dirty_d> yea, i was just hoping new bearings wouldnt be needed
[15:25:35] <archivist> and splastit bukket bench!
[15:26:01] <dirty_d> actualyl they're only $11
[15:26:10] <dirty_d> and its not even my stuff, just helping a friend
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[15:43:30] <dirty_d> http://www.skf.com/group/products/maintenance-products/mechanical-tools-for-mounting-and-dismounting/bearing-pullers/external-pullers/strong-back-pullers/index.html
[15:43:38] <dirty_d> "The firm grip behind the bearing's inner ring reduces the force required to dismount the bearing"
[15:43:46] <dirty_d> i cant see how that can possibly contact the inner race
[15:44:12] <dirty_d> http://www.skf.com/binary/21-33775/MEC0035V_NG_tcm_12-33775.png
[15:44:25] <dirty_d> the flange thing is tapered, it would contact the outer race first
[15:44:54] <archivist> you can use that plate reversed
[15:46:13] <dirty_d> but it would still have to push on the outer race first
[15:47:19] <dirty_d> well it depends how its mounted i guess
[15:47:22] <dirty_d> im my case it would
[15:47:48] <archivist> the flat side on the reverse, the outer has some freedom
[15:48:19] <archivist> but usually the bearing can take some load elastically
[15:51:53] <archivist> a large part of the problem is if "design for repair" even crossed anybodies mind
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[15:59:00] <dirty_d> probably not
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[16:18:53] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-phase-converter-SIEI-1-1KW-220-240V-/291463558324 dammit I snoozed I loozed
[16:20:46] <dirty_d> snost and lost
[16:22:13] <MattyMatt> back to the homebrew. I guess 400V caps rule out a 3 phase input option?
[16:22:44] <SpeedEvil> MattyMatt: yes
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[16:23:56] <MattyMatt> what do you get DC if you put 415V (3x 240V) through 6 diodes?
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[16:25:05] <SpeedEvil> If you mean what do you get if you have a common neutral 415V with 240V between legs - ~600
[16:25:17] <dr0w> is 415V a rms value?
[16:25:20] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:25:47] <SpeedEvil> Err - +-600, rather
[16:26:08] <MattyMatt> so even 600V caps would be marginal
[16:26:23] <SpeedEvil> Actually - no
[16:26:55] <SpeedEvil> It's between 600 and 400 or so. I can't do the phasor maths in my head
[16:27:20] <MattyMatt> at these voltages, vacuum tubes for the halfbridges might be in order
[16:27:24] <ssi> 3x240v is actually 3x208V isn't it?
[16:27:26] <SpeedEvil> ...
[16:27:37] <SpeedEvil> There is however no reason you can't use two caps in series
[16:27:56] <ssi> blah 3phase makes my head hurt :D
[16:27:58] <SpeedEvil> 600 or more V switches are readily available
[16:28:09] <MattyMatt> in UK 3 phase was always refered to as 415V, when 1ph was 240V
[16:28:09] <SpeedEvil> even up to 1500V are cheap - SiC FETs
[16:28:09] <ssi> if you put two caps in series you need a bleeder resistor network in parallel so the caps equalize
[16:28:12] <SpeedEvil> well, cheapish
[16:28:19] <SpeedEvil> ssi: yes
[16:28:36] <ssi> common tube amp trick :D
[16:29:05] <ssi> 450V caps are about as high voltage as you can get without spending bux
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[16:29:18] <MattyMatt> nice point about series. plan A is 6x 220uf 400V in parallel, because they're cheap (like ATX)
[16:29:19] <SpeedEvil> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/IXBT20N360HV/IXBT20N360HV-ND/5227730 - that's surprisingly reasonable.
[16:29:30] <SpeedEvil> 3600V/70A/$40
[16:30:12] <MattyMatt> bleeder network could also be the virtual ground at center
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[16:30:56] <SpeedEvil> dependant on stuff, if you can get at the individual motor windings, and connect them to h-bridges, you've now got a lot more voltage to playw ith
[16:31:13] <MattyMatt> that'd halve the Vds the mosfets would ever see, afaics
[16:31:26] <SpeedEvil> you don't use FETs usually at high Vds
[16:31:29] <SpeedEvil> IGBTs are better
[16:31:33] <SpeedEvil> (usually)
[16:31:50] <SpeedEvil> Exceptions are if you absolutely need high switching speed
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[16:34:40] <MattyMatt> 2n3055, if you absolutely need cheap :)
[16:35:19] <MattyMatt> 6 per 2a. big heatsink
[16:36:17] <SpeedEvil> MattyMatt: not so great at 3600V
[16:36:21] <MattyMatt> 2A per phase, that's not insubstantial watts I think
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[16:37:19] <MattyMatt> I'm only making a motor driver. I presume clamping diodes will protect the transistors from anything outside rectified mains
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[16:38:00] <Jymmm> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/International-Rectifier/IRLB3034PBF/?qs=9%252bKlkBgLFf0jZeWnRhawEQ%3D%3D
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[16:39:07] <Jymmm> 10... in parallel =)
[16:39:36] <MattyMatt> in series shirley, to share the voltage. these can only take 40V
[16:40:06] <MattyMatt> lotsa amps tho
[16:40:20] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Aw, come on, we want 3430 amps capacity =)
[16:40:25] <MattyMatt> maybe for the kiddies, I should run mine at a less lethal voltage
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[16:41:01] <MattyMatt> but transformers are so expensive, and homebrew variacs are so dangerous
[16:41:27] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Ok, 5 parallel, 5 series... 200V @ 1715A
[16:41:43] <MattyMatt> expense multiplies
[16:41:55] <MattyMatt> I should give in and buy a chinese one
[16:42:20] <MattyMatt> they generally work at first, which is a concept I like
[16:44:15] <MattyMatt> has any other fool made variac/transformer cores out of bean cans?
[16:45:00] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECO-EV-HP-240V-3-PHASE-INVERTER-CONVERTER-WATCHMAKERS-LATHE-MILL-COOLENT-PUMP-/151514702131?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2346fae133
[16:45:13] <SpeedEvil> I keep meaning to make a proper variac.
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[16:45:20] <SpeedEvil> SMPS, current limiting.
[16:45:34] <SpeedEvil> 0-1.5* input
[16:46:51] <MattyMatt> Jymmm is Teco especially trustworthy? because there's a 1HP one cheaper in the links below
[16:47:41] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: I have ZERO clue on Teco or ph converters - they could be a toaster for all I know.
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[16:48:46] <SpeedEvil> I rely on tesco for all my grocery needs.
[16:49:13] <archivist> shop around lots cheaper, except for transport cost
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[16:49:24] <Timbo> so I have a taig micromill and I'm thinking I should probably add some home switches to it
[16:49:31] <Timbo> why should I not use hall effect sensors?
[16:49:39] <MattyMatt> I should just buy one of those matched VFD and spindles sets. I've heard BLDC isn't quite like an AC induction motor
[16:49:56] <Timbo> seems to be some division of opinion on repeatability
[16:50:26] <MattyMatt> that one I missed was coming from Usk for £5.67 :)
[16:52:47] <MattyMatt> you don't need repeatability finer than the resolution of your steppers/encoders
[16:53:44] <archivist> backlash too
[16:54:13] <Timbo> that's what I figured
[16:54:22] <MattyMatt> even if you take care to always home from the same direction?
[16:54:49] <Timbo> I mean, do I really care if the axes are off by half a millimetre anyway?
[16:55:02] <MattyMatt> easily done if the home is also the endstop
[16:55:28] <Timbo> just seems like hall effect is a whole lot simpler (in some ways)
[16:55:46] <MattyMatt> precise homing might let you get away with fixtures etc, for repetetive jobs
[16:55:53] <Timbo> mmm, true
[16:56:00] <archivist> Timbo, make your code unidirectional like you would use a manual machine and you can remove some of the errors
[16:56:12] <cradek> Timbo: it depends on how you want to use homing. if it's just to establish reasonable soft limits, a mm is fine. if it's to be able to come back to a half-finished job later and have it repeat, a mm is pretty huge
[16:56:28] <Timbo> cradek: yeah, the former raelly
[16:56:35] <cradek> so then decide what you need and do it!
[16:56:41] <Timbo> ok!
[16:56:43] <cradek> !!
[16:56:46] <cradek> haha
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[16:57:10] <Timbo> it's weird though, some people claim hall effect is /better/ than microswitches
[16:57:21] <Timbo> others say much worse
[16:57:29] <MattyMatt> what kind of chips are you making?
[16:57:34] <cradek> they are probably both right depending on the particular switches
[16:57:38] <Timbo> very little real actual data
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[16:57:52] <Timbo> MattyMatt: chips?
[16:58:02] <MattyMatt> if steel, then hall's magnet is vulnerable
[16:58:03] <archivist> both have hysteresis
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[16:58:13] <Timbo> MattyMatt: ah true, hadn't thought of that
[16:58:18] <archivist> both affected by dirt
[16:58:27] <Timbo> wouldn't be doing steel very often, if at all
[16:58:43] <MattyMatt> if huge amounts of sawdust, opto and mech switch are more vulnerable
[16:58:43] <cradek> proxes like are normally used on machines don't need magnets
[16:58:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.popsci.com/brain-controlled-bionic-legs-are-here-no-really brains are still a long ways off
[16:59:02] <cradek> I don't know if they're hall or something else, but they don't have magnets
[16:59:14] <Timbo> cradek: hmm yeah, I saw one guy use those
[16:59:14] <archivist> capacitive I believe
[16:59:29] <cradek> and they're oil and coolant tight, no moving parts
[16:59:34] <cradek> a lot going for them
[16:59:36] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: We all know a few people in need of a prosthetic brain.
[16:59:36] <Timbo> think he was planning on "upgrading" to opto though, so I assume he wasn't happy with something
[16:59:41] <Timbo> worth exploring though
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[17:01:32] <archivist> opto suffers from dirt and sun shining through a window
[17:01:39] <MattyMatt> if my Z was faster, I'd consider autohoming
[17:02:24] <Timbo> looks like I should be reading this
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/open-source-cnc-machine-designs/101878-cnc-forum.html
[17:02:28] <cradek> my 1970s lathe uses proxes for all limits and they still work
[17:02:32] <MattyMatt> how about arc welding? that might be bad too
[17:02:51] <cradek> it uses them for homing too (plus index of course)
[17:03:01] <cradek> that's the best setup
[17:03:48] <alex4nder> MattyMatt: like, frying components?
[17:04:34] <MattyMatt> nope, just the arc in the same shop, overwhelming the optos, and the unattended machine crashes while homing
[17:04:45] <alex4nder> ah yah
[17:05:45] <MattyMatt> I'm doing optos in my lathe spindle, but I'm putting them inside the headstock where it's safe and dark
[17:10:41] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/seco-boring-bar-/201347507728 left handed boring bar anyone?
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[17:27:18] <DaPeace> hello :-)
[17:29:04] <DaPeace> anyone here who could quickly help me with dual-stepper-config? i have 2 stepper for the x-axis and need help. if i try to setup 2x x-dir + 2x x-step in stepperconf only one is working.
[17:30:05] <archivist> does stepconf know about a gantry type machine
[17:31:45] <DaPeace> hmm? did you speak to me?
[17:32:06] <archivist> yes
[17:32:29] <DaPeace> ah. ok.. im not sure.. where do i need to add that?
[17:32:44] <archivist> when you chose your machine basic type
[17:33:20] <archivist> cant remember if it does know
[17:34:03] <DaPeace> hmm. ok. so i should try to reconfigure the whole machine.. i thought maybe i only add 2x x-dir + x-step to the config.. that didnt work
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[17:36:06] <archivist> there is more than one way of setting up gantry machines /me never done one
[17:37:58] <DaPeace> ah ok.. i will have a look… ive used the machine already but i hooked up 2 steppers to one driver.. now ive added larger stepper and the driver is not capable to drive 2 of that large one.. and there is no way to grab one outputsignal and put it on both drivers
[17:38:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ping
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[17:38:49] <pcw_home> Hi jymmm
[17:38:53] <cpresser> DaPeace: there is a gantrykins kinematic for that
[17:39:12] <cpresser> DaPeace:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/gantrykins.9.html
[17:39:19] <Jymmm> pcw_home: got a shopping list for you (this week only)...
[17:39:41] <cpresser> DaPeace: however, i am not sure if its possible to do this in stepconf. most likeley you will have to edit the .hal files manually
[17:39:54] <Jymmm> pcw_home:
http://www.frys.com/product/8299536?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
[17:40:27] <Jymmm> pcw_home:
http://www.frys.com/product/8000524?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
[17:40:53] <Jymmm> pcw_home: That BT speaker is VERY good
[17:41:24] <pcw_home> $3.00?
[17:41:35] <Jymmm> yep
[17:41:40] <Jymmm> pcw_home:
http://www.frys.com/product/7537696?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
[17:42:26] <Jymmm> pcw_home: It's better that my more expensive BT "stereo" speakers; louder and more bass
[17:43:45] <Jymmm> pcw_home: the 18650 is soldered to that pwr pack
[17:44:26] <DaPeace> thanks cpresser. i think it will not be possible to do that in stepperconf.. its that not really fine cause its really hard to check out the speed-limits of the stepper with hal-config-files.. i will read a little. mybe i get it..
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[17:48:41] <JT-Shop> DaPeace, I just looked a config created by stepconf and it correctly connects xstep and xdirection to two pins each
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[18:38:06] <Aero-Tec2> how to find location of tool table?
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[18:41:11] <shapeoko-noob> hi all
[18:41:32] <shapeoko-noob> how i can cut PVC sheets?
[18:41:59] <shapeoko-noob> what is the reomendd feed rate and spindle speed
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[18:48:19] <JT-Shop> go to onshrud for feed and speed data
[18:48:29] <JT-Shop> you need special end mills to cut it
[18:49:09] <JT-Shop> Aero-Tec2, do you mean where is the file?
[18:49:29] * JT-Shop thinks he can stop using acid to clean parts now
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[18:52:40] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sr6EGtBONM - how to pick up aluminium blocks.
[18:52:53] <SpeedEvil> Also known as 'my arm is considerably larger than yours'
[18:55:00] <Aero-Tec2> JT-Shop, yes the file
[18:55:06] <Aero-Tec2> think I found it
[18:55:40] <Aero-Tec2> on the sim comp it was hard to find
[18:55:59] <Aero-Tec2> think I should have no problems with he real one
[18:56:13] <Aero-Tec2> thanks
[18:56:49] <JT-Shop> yea the sim configurations are very confusing with sym links and weird stuff
[18:57:18] <malcom2073> Heh thats a lotta luminum
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[18:59:19] <SpeedEvil> I suppose it's 'only' $5M worth. But selling at half that price - if you've got the salvage equipment, and you don't take too long...
[18:59:33] <malcom2073> Heh
[19:00:07] <DaPeace> JT-Shop:
[19:00:17] <DaPeace> read your comment a little late..
[19:01:04] <DaPeace> problem is that i can add 2 or more stepper with same direction but if i test the drives only the first is moving
[19:01:23] <JT-Shop> testing in the stepconf wizard?
[19:01:51] <DaPeace> yes
[19:02:09] <DaPeace> if i try to move the stepper i only get one moving.. the first in the list
[19:02:31] <JT-Shop> yea, stepconf is limited just test it in Axis
[19:03:31] <DaPeace> ok. i will try out.. stepperconf needs some rework… im getting crazy with that piece of software..
[19:04:23] <JT-Shop> it was only intended to get a basic 3 axis machine up and going quick
[19:05:01] <DaPeace> jep.. would be nice if it could for example leave changes in the config-files and not rewrite everything everytime you start it…
[19:05:24] <DaPeace> adjusting the speeds of the machine is kinda tricky without the stepper-conf-tool
[19:05:38] <JT-Shop> why is that?
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[19:07:13] <DaPeace> im changing parts of my machine since some month and everytime i change something i have to add backlash manually, adding my hal-files manually and that procedure everytime i change something in the config-tool
[19:07:47] <cradek> it was never intended to be used past an initial setup for these reasons
[19:08:05] <cradek> you should stop doing the thing that hurts
[19:08:22] <JT-Shop> why is it hard to adjust speeds?
[19:09:19] <JT-Shop> wow the inital commit was in 2007 and contained 1500 lines of python code plus others
[19:10:02] <DaPeace> because i leave stepper-conf running for a while on one axis with maximum speed and 30 or 40cm left<->right and thats something i cant really do without it.. maybe writing some gcode would be possible
[19:10:16] <cpresser> DaPeace: have a second set of stepconf-config-files. use them to test you speeds. then copy those values manually to your 'real' config
[19:10:53] <cpresser> that way stepconf wont overwrite your your config
[19:11:39] <DaPeace> ive put everything in hal-files a can simply add after stepconf changed my old ones.. but adding backlash for ex. is only possible the manual way..
[19:11:44] <JT-Shop> you can test axis settings in Axis
[19:12:01] <DaPeace> i use gmoccapy. thats more "machine-like"
[19:12:20] <JT-Shop> nevermind then
[19:12:40] <JT-Shop> you should ask the developer to add emcalib.tcl to gmoccapy
[19:12:52] <DaPeace> whats that?
[19:13:28] <JT-Shop> calibration program, if you have the settings in the ini file it gathers them up so you can test and change them
[19:13:48] <DaPeace> oh.. ok. and in axis its already included?
[19:13:56] <JT-Shop> yes
[19:14:05] <DaPeace> where do i find it?
[19:14:34] <JT-Shop> Machine > Calibration in Axis
[19:14:36] <DaPeace> because for adjusting i dont have a problem with axis.. i only like gmoccapy for working..
[19:14:58] <DaPeace> ah ok. i will have a look. maybe that would help me to get the axes to the max.
[19:15:13] <DaPeace> thanks for the help
[19:15:43] <JT-Shop> I find that acceleration ends up being 10-20 times max velocity
[19:16:03] <DaPeace> i have one more question.. i use tb6600-chips to drive my stepper. does anybody know if the maximum of 4.5A is for one or for 2 phase?
[19:17:02] <JT-Shop> looks like a stepconf configuration will have scale and stepgen_maxaccel in calibration
[19:19:48] <DaPeace> i will try to get my machine back running tomorrow.. i did the cable-work for the whole cabinet now and have many things to adjust.. including the 2 stepper-per-axis and a dead driver for z-axis… thanks for the help. will head for the couch now. cya
[19:20:14] <mozmck> DaPeace: according to the datasheet I found that is 4.5A per phase.
[19:21:27] <mozmck> But that is max, and not necessarily achievable depending on the setup and heatsinking.
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[19:39:40] <Crom> trying to decide whether to go usb or parallel on the new laser controller board.
[19:40:02] <jdh> Parallel
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[19:40:14] <Jymmm> parallel
[19:40:34] <malcom2073> optical!
[19:40:35] <Crom> http://www.ebay.com/itm/361240665467
[19:40:56] <Jymmm> arduino based?!
[19:41:07] <Jymmm> fuck that
[19:41:11] <malcom2073> Lol
[19:41:14] <Jymmm> hang on (will take me a moment)
[19:41:16] <malcom2073> that's garunteed to be amusing
[19:41:35] <malcom2073> With any luck it's using GRBL, and not their own homebrew stuff, but that comes along with its own issues.
[19:41:47] <Jymmm> Crom:
http://szret.en.alibaba.com/product/603137733-213963543/high_quality_co2_laser_control_system_PH_02.html
[19:42:05] <_methods> never thought i'd ever see anyone say "hopefully its using grbl"
[19:42:15] <malcom2073> Haha
[19:42:22] <malcom2073> _methods: There *are* worse things in the world ;)
[19:42:37] <Jymmm> http://www.aliexpress.com/popular/ph-02-laser-controler.html
[19:42:45] <_methods> mach3?
[19:42:48] <jdh> what do yiu use to control the usb thing?
[19:42:52] <Crom> hmm $250 vs $26
[19:43:06] <Jymmm> Crom: It's self contained
[19:43:14] <Crom> inkscape laser extension
[19:43:17] <malcom2073> jdh: Typically gcode senders, they send the gcode over the usb/serial link
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[19:44:27] <jdh> example?
[19:44:36] <Crom> inkscape laser extension
[19:44:46] <Crom> is a gcode generator/sender
[19:45:01] <malcom2073> jdh:
https://github.com/winder/Universal-G-Code-Sender
[19:45:03] <jdh> gotcha
[19:45:06] <malcom2073> jdh: Any reprap based software as well
[19:45:36] <jdh> uh huh.
[19:46:56] <shapeoko-noob> there is an API to linux cnc?
[19:47:23] <_methods> yeah C
[19:47:27] <shapeoko-noob> I want to read the coordinates and send coordinates
[19:47:27] <_methods> lol
[19:47:30] <_methods> the C api
[19:48:16] <shapeoko-noob> what is the C api?
[19:48:17] <cpresser> shapeoko-noob: you can do lots of stuff in python-hal-modules
[19:53:06] <Crom> Jymmm, $26 and it's all I need... X, Y, PWM for Laser and available stepper driver for Z table
[19:53:34] <XXCoder> I do want laser cnc but laser seems hard lol
[19:53:39] <XXCoder> or expensive
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[19:54:53] <Crom> 40w is like <$600
[19:55:12] <XXCoder> enough to cut thick paper?
[19:55:16] <XXCoder> and size?
[19:55:19] <Crom> + another $26 for a controller
[19:56:02] <Crom> I've only the moshidraw board so it's raster right now
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[19:56:46] <Crom> I've "cut" 1/4" re running a single line
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[20:01:14] <malcom2073> there's the $700 blue box ebay specials, that with new electronics apparently make pretty decent 40w laser cutters
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[20:02:33] <XXCoder> example ebay entry?
[20:05:25] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20W-Fabulous-DMX512-DJ-Laser-LED-RGB-Stage-Lights-Crystal-Ball-Party-Club-/281691747789?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item419622f5cd
[20:05:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LASER-ENGRAVING-ENGRAVER-MACHINE-40W-CUTTER-HIGH-SPEED-CUTTING-TOOL-HIGH-GRADE-/251840669689?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aa2dfa7f9
[20:05:47] <SpeedEvil> more seriosuly
[20:05:59] <malcom2073> ^^ Yeah
[20:06:04] <XXCoder> lol
[20:06:31] <malcom2073> SpeedEvil: You had that bookmarked didn't you?
[20:06:44] <malcom2073> Lol high speed cutting tool
[20:06:46] <malcom2073> that's awesome
[20:06:46] <XXCoder> not bad actually
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[20:06:51] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: both of em I bet lol
[20:06:58] <SpeedEvil> MattyMatt: no - I just searched 20w laser cutter
[20:13:28] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: thanks
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[20:15:03] <SpeedEvil> - to be clear - I have no experience with that vendor
[20:15:19] <XXCoder> yeah not planning to buy right away
[20:15:24] <XXCoder> probabky not soon either
[20:15:29] <XXCoder> gonna get my cnc router to work first
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[21:11:55] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:06:51] <CaptHindsight> Crom: is the Moshidraw board that Japanese controller board in the low cost Chinese laser cutters/engravers?
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[22:07:58] <CaptHindsight> http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TXmc50SJI2M/TqKX-Q3dUwI/AAAAAAAAAuk/8CujTH5v_oo/s912/IMG_8904.JPG this one ^^^
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[22:09:36] <CaptHindsight> I've seen the 40W CO2 laser engravers on ebay for as low as $400
[22:09:45] <malcom2073> They're getting cheaper and cheaper
[22:10:18] <CaptHindsight> ^^ that board has a moshisoft silk screen
[22:11:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general-laser-engraving-cutting-machine-discussion/138554-software.html he bothered to rework this the same as I did with the cheap routers
[22:11:21] <CaptHindsight> hardly worth the time
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[22:12:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/40W-CO2-Laser-Cutter-Engraver-Cutting-Machine-Support-Corel-Draw-W-Cooling-Fan-/161700544336
[22:13:40] <CaptHindsight> comes with an aquarium pump and other near useless attachments
[22:14:25] <malcom2073> hah
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[22:15:26] <CaptHindsight> I'm surprised that it deosn't come with one of those wind up monkeys with fans instead of cymbals as a smoke removal fan
[22:16:04] <malcom2073> Negative Nancy
[22:16:58] <CaptHindsight> Gullible Gary
[22:17:09] <Valen> moooornin all
[22:17:22] <CaptHindsight> is it winter yet Valen?
[22:17:29] <Valen> getting there
[22:17:34] <Valen> been warm the past few days
[22:17:35] <malcom2073> Gullible Gary is so much happier though :P
[22:17:49] <Valen> so what motors do people pair with an 8i20?
[22:17:54] <CaptHindsight> ignorance is a bliss
[22:18:17] <malcom2073> If this is ignorance, I'll take it
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[22:19:23] <CaptHindsight> Valen: isn't that the 3 phase AC servo board?
[22:19:31] <Valen> yeah 400v
[22:19:38] <Valen> I'm only finding 48v servos thoush
[22:19:46] <CaptHindsight> parker
[22:20:58] <Valen> let me perhaps rephrase, I'm only finding 48v servos when you limit the price to something that won't cause my father heart attacks
[22:21:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-SMHA601051-45112ID654-Brushless-AC-440W-Servo-Motor-/261315002837
[22:21:27] <CaptHindsight> Valen: what size do you need?
[22:22:11] <CaptHindsight> andy found some Omron ones that were very low priced
[22:22:15] <Valen> nothing too dramatic, I'm thinking size 34 might be a way to go
[22:22:22] <CaptHindsight> nema23 size
[22:22:45] <Valen> its for a half sheet router, we want good acceleration, we always seem to wind up making tiny things
[22:25:19] <MattyMatt> could you use a chinese spindle as a servo?
[22:25:26] <Valen> they are induction motors aren't they?
[22:25:48] <MattyMatt> not sure of the diff tbh
[22:26:03] <Valen> one has magnets one doesn't
[22:26:16] <Valen> I was looking at these
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema34/nema34-dc-brushless-motor-kl34bls-98-dual-shaft
[22:26:34] <Valen> which seem pretty OK, but 48 volts rather than 400 volts ;->
[22:26:42] <MattyMatt> how about chunky hobbyking ones?
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[22:29:46] <Valen> again they aren't going to be high voltage
[22:30:13] <Valen> I mean I could run those keling ones, 33A is just about inside the 8I20 spec
[22:30:33] <Valen> but it feels wrong to only use ~10% of the voltage available lol
[22:31:02] <MattyMatt> keep the caps comfy
[22:31:51] <MattyMatt> it's like hifi amps, you don't run at full power
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[22:36:22] <Valen> pshaw servo's max out all the things!
[22:36:39] <Valen> (I'd rather run more volts and less amps to be honest)
[22:40:49] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Motor-Inc-3-Phase-230v-Brushless-Servo-Motor-CM891-5Q26-110-/181123752739
[22:43:34] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-Compumotor-servo-motor/131512757866
[22:44:10] <MattyMatt> 340V 2.6A
[22:45:29] <MattyMatt> you are in US?
[22:45:39] <Valen> australia
[22:45:50] <MattyMatt> yeah I shoulda known that :)
[22:46:09] <MattyMatt> oh well, those look good for an axis
[22:46:19] <Valen> wow an american on ebay that will actually post internationally
[22:46:40] <Valen> put 2 on X then one on Y and Z looks pretty good
[22:46:45] <Valen> price seems ok too
[22:46:51] <CaptHindsight> well they have streamlined the customs forms down to under 1 hour now
[22:47:01] <MattyMatt> yeah shipping to UK doesn't look like a killer either, but I can't afford 8i20s
[22:47:07] <CaptHindsight> whats your shoe size by the way :)
[22:48:40] <Valen> 10 ½
[22:49:28] <Valen> and I wear
http://www.blundstone.com/au/work-safety-boots/xfoot-safety-boots/style-143 these boots
[22:49:37] <MattyMatt> the couplings on those motors looks like the same kind I use. I don't think they're very standard tho
[22:49:41] <CaptHindsight> the post office doesn't want to ship internationally unless you provide a local telephone number
[22:49:53] <Valen> http://www.blundstone.com/au/work-safety-boots/xfoot-safety-boots/style-142 (these ones for dressing up)
[22:49:54] <MattyMatt> but it'd save me £5 per motor if they were :)
[22:50:10] <CaptHindsight> how did packages ever make it overseas in the past?
[22:50:20] <MattyMatt> on a fair wind
[22:50:20] <Valen> we are probably going to do a belt drive reduction on it
[22:50:59] <MattyMatt> belt drive = ok for the encoder to be on the motor?
[22:51:03] <Valen> here to send something internationally, you write an extra line on the address part of the package, and perhaps tick some boxes on a customs form
[22:51:16] <Valen> actually it should make it work better in terms of the PID loop
[22:51:31] <Valen> our current one has direct drive motors and linear scales for feedback
[22:51:44] <Valen> it doesn't tune that nicely tbh
[22:52:49] <MattyMatt> how would it work with an encoder? would you let the servo position itself then doble check with the linear scale for fine position?
[22:52:58] <CaptHindsight> Valen:
https://cns.usps.com/cfo/ShippingInformationAction_input 4 pages of questions
[22:53:31] <Valen> CaptHindsight: 1st page is addresses, you kinda need those
[22:53:43] <Valen> second page is how much you want to spend on shipping it
[22:53:54] <Valen> 3rd page is customs
[22:54:04] <Valen> and 4th page is looking at all the crap you just wrote
[22:54:26] <CaptHindsight> and when you get to page 4 the website freezes and you have to start over again
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[22:54:50] <CaptHindsight> unless you use Win8 and IE
[22:55:00] <Tom_itx> then you get redirected to a pron site
[22:55:01] <Valen> they won't show me the customs form without filling everything else out
[22:55:28] <CaptHindsight> half the time I end up filling them out by hand
[22:55:44] <Valen> right, i found a copy of the form
[22:55:55] <Valen> they want a qty and value of the shipped items
[22:56:11] <Valen> that isn't particularly arduous lol
[22:56:20] <CaptHindsight> when it works
[22:56:35] <CaptHindsight> thats why people don't like to ship international on ebay
[22:56:57] <Valen> because a website is crap?
[22:57:11] <CaptHindsight> and it's even worse at the post office
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[22:57:35] <Valen> how so?
[22:57:42] <CaptHindsight> stnad inline to watch the clerk bitch and complain that the info won't enter into the screens
[22:57:51] <CaptHindsight> stand in line ...
[22:58:05] <Valen> you can't get a bit of paper and stick it onto the box after writing on it?
[22:58:31] <CaptHindsight> oh sure, bu the new forms only have a small area for the ship to address
[22:58:40] <CaptHindsight> I have to write in 3 point
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[23:43:30] <zeeshan|2> http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Flanges/Steel/ATP-FLS-084_450.jpg
[23:43:43] <zeeshan|2> is there an easy way to hold a square blank that igotta machine this out of
[23:43:50] <zeeshan|2> i dont wanna make a jig
[23:43:53] <zeeshan|2> i only need 2 for my car
[23:44:15] <Tom_itx> sure
[23:44:28] <Tom_itx> you not catchin on yet?
[23:44:38] <zeeshan|2> its stainless
[23:44:44] <Tom_itx> bolt it with clamps on the perimeter
[23:44:53] <Tom_itx> mill the middle and holes first
[23:44:57] <zeeshan|2> yes
[23:45:00] <zeeshan|2> and then
[23:45:11] <Tom_itx> cut the perimeter last leaving maybe .003 - .005 and punch it out
[23:45:17] <zeeshan|2> hm
[23:45:25] <zeeshan|2> how will i hold it when machining the perimiter?
[23:45:35] <zeeshan|2> without using a sacraficial block
[23:45:38] <Tom_itx> it will hold itself
[23:45:52] <Tom_itx> well you need a plate under it
[23:45:58] <zeeshan|2> im saying
[23:46:03] <Tom_itx> remember we had that discussion already
[23:46:04] <zeeshan|2> when im doiung the perimeter, i cant hold it from the outside
[23:46:12] <Tom_itx> why not?
[23:46:17] <Tom_itx> the blank isn't that big?
[23:46:19] <zeeshan|2> cause the cutter will eat the toe clamp
[23:46:40] <zeeshan|2> i guess you either gotta slot the contour..
[23:46:43] <zeeshan|2> or bolt it against a plate
[23:46:46] <zeeshan|2> theres no way around it
[23:46:56] <Tom_itx> pretty much
[23:46:56] <zeeshan|2> =/
[23:47:02] <Tom_itx> you gotta hold it some how
[23:47:23] <Tom_itx> put a tapped hole in the center and bolt it down there to cut the perimeter
[23:47:31] <Tom_itx> or 2 of the holes
[23:47:35] <zeeshan|2> like here tom.
[23:47:41] <zeeshan|2> lets say i do this: toe clamp outside, drill the 4 holes
[23:47:57] <zeeshan|2> then use the 4 holes to bolt it against a sacraficial plate.
[23:48:05] <Tom_itx> mkay
[23:48:07] <zeeshan|2> i finish machining the center hole and outside
[23:48:12] <zeeshan|2> now i wanna do my next flange
[23:48:18] <zeeshan|2> do i just drill the 4 holes
[23:48:18] <Tom_itx> you may as well do the center while you do the holes
[23:48:23] <zeeshan|2> and then use them to line it up as best as possible ?
[23:48:32] <zeeshan|2> its just going to be slightly out.
[23:48:37] <zeeshan|2> cause the machine will have lost reference
[23:48:44] <Tom_itx> why?
[23:48:56] <zeeshan|2> because im relying on the bolt holes to bring the second flange into place
[23:48:56] <Tom_itx> make a repeatable reference
[23:49:01] <zeeshan|2> the bolt holes have clearance
[23:50:17] <Tom_itx> if you drill the holes for the next one they should still align
[23:50:40] <Tom_itx> and once you blow the tapped holes out and bolt it, it should align just like the first one
[23:50:43] <zeeshan|2> but the holes for the next one
[23:50:46] <zeeshan|2> will have clearance also
[23:50:54] <zeeshan|2> so when i try to bring it into the sacraficial plate with the tapped hole
[23:51:00] <zeeshan|2> they wont be 100% aligned to machine
[23:51:05] <zeeshan|2> its like i need to reset it
[23:51:31] <zeeshan|2> im thinking the way around it is this:
[23:51:44] <zeeshan|2> since im using a 1/2" cutter, and it has like 1.5" cutting length
[23:51:51] <zeeshan|2> just stack two of the flanges and drill them together.
[23:51:57] <zeeshan|2> and machine all this nonsense together
[23:52:09] <Tom_itx> can't machine the step that way
[23:52:17] <zeeshan|2> well the step
[23:52:22] <zeeshan|2> ill do the one flange first
[23:52:32] <zeeshan|2> but for th e second flange, ill have the hole to realign the machine
[23:52:51] <zeeshan|2> bit more work
[23:53:08] <zeeshan|2> wish machining was a bit easier :P
[23:53:19] <Tom_itx> you're making it hard
[23:53:50] <Tom_itx> once you drill the holes and bolt it down it's not gonna move
[23:54:03] <zeeshan|2> its not about movement
[23:54:06] <zeeshan|2> its about losing position
[23:54:09] <zeeshan|2> relative to the machine
[23:54:10] <Tom_itx> if you're worried, dowel 2 of them then drill the dowels out later
[23:54:25] <zeeshan|2> hmm that'd work
[23:54:27] <zeeshan|2> shoulder bolts
[23:54:43] * Tom_itx smacks zeeshan|2 with a clue bat
[23:54:49] <zeeshan|2> im tired
[23:54:53] <zeeshan|2> been working at school all day today
[23:54:57] <zeeshan|2> rather than typical slacking :P
