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[00:04:57] <zeeshan> hmm, maybe i should use mesa hardware + linuxcnc
[00:05:02] <zeeshan> for temp and pressure pid control !
[00:05:23] <Tom_itx> why not use a $2 avr
[00:05:36] <zeeshan> im not competent in microelectronics
[00:05:38] <zeeshan> i can only work with macro
[00:05:47] <zeeshan> and i want as much plug and play as possible
[00:05:59] <zeeshan> the intent of my thesis isn't how to design a pid controller :P
[00:06:03] <zeeshan> i need results asap!!
[00:06:42] <furrywolf> yay, useful(ish) thing done! mowed lawn.
[00:06:48] <furrywolf> new $0 lawnmower works well.
[00:06:53] <furrywolf> could use more power, but oh well.
[00:07:05] <zeeshan> mesa can switch relays which control the two pressure solenoids for pressure control, and relay for solenoid forfluid flow + relay for heater eelements for temp control
[00:07:31] <zeeshan> only problem i see is the lacking adc for temp and pressure sensing
[00:07:32] <furrywolf> I don't know how general-purpose linuxcnc's pid stuff is
[00:07:45] <furrywolf> the mesa stuff has adcs, but 8-bit, poorly linear.
[00:07:51] <zeeshan> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/pid.9.html
[00:08:01] <zeeshan> looks pretty well documentated! :P
[00:08:30] <zeeshan> and im familiar with linuxcnc's interface
[00:08:35] <zeeshan> so it might be easier for me
[00:09:44] <Tom_itx> yeah and there's just nobody around to help if you get stuck either
[00:10:03] <zeeshan> or i use the rp2, python, and gpio
[00:10:06] <zeeshan> i could prolly do the same
[00:10:24] <zeeshan> =/
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[00:11:20] <zeeshan> http://labjack.com/products?gclid=CIOple3tsMUCFQwzaQod9kwAMg
[00:11:22] <furrywolf> "People who prefer that behavior are welcome ... to write their own version of pid." lol
[00:11:23] <zeeshan> my friend was recommending this
[00:12:17] <furrywolf> check software support on anything you buy. you need something with working, current, non-buggy drivers for your OS of choice, preferably open-source for when they invariably don't actually work.
[00:12:31] <zeeshan> yes itll definitely be open source
[00:12:35] <furrywolf> you need to be able to write software to interface to it
[00:12:51] <furrywolf> which means a documented api, or a documented protocol if talking to it directly
[00:13:17] <zeeshan> ideally id like to avoid any third party things..
[00:13:38] <t12> why not just cheapo din panel mount PID controllers?
[00:13:38] <zeeshan> the transducer currently outputs 0-5v, so it just needs to go through an adc
[00:14:28] <zeeshan> t12 find me one with 2 SSR outputs, 1 thermocouple input, and an output for temperature in 0-5 or 0-10v
[00:14:32] <zeeshan> :)
[00:15:02] <t12> 2 indepnedent ssr outputs?
[00:15:08] <zeeshan> yes
[00:15:16] <t12> for two independent pid loops ?
[00:15:16] <zeeshan> one will control heating elements, one controls cooling
[00:15:21] <zeeshan> no
[00:15:23] <zeeshan> for the same pid loop
[00:15:38] <t12> how much power
[00:15:58] <zeeshan> this might be overkill, but worst case should be 2000W.
[00:16:10] <zeeshan> for the one ssr
[00:16:15] <furrywolf> hrmm, some of the mesa boards have better analog inputs
[00:16:16] <zeeshan> and the other ssr only draws like 10W
[00:16:26] <zeeshan> furrywolf: which one?
[00:16:47] <furrywolf> In addition the 7I65 has eight 12 bit + sign A-D inputs ... Analog inputs also have software selectable ranges including -10V to +10V, -5V to +5V, -2.5V to +2.5V and 0V to +5V. Input and output ranges can be selected on a channel by channel basis.
[00:17:06] <zeeshan> nice!
[00:17:23] <furrywolf> The 7I87 is remote isolated eight channel +-10V analog input card. All channels have 12 bit resolution and selectable averaging.
[00:17:24] <zeeshan> i forgot all the calculations about how to go from bits to real numbers :)
[00:17:30] <t12> http://www.ascontecnologic.com/en/products/industrial-automation/industrial-controllers/x1-q1/x1
[00:17:37] <furrywolf> 2^12 = 4096
[00:18:07] <zeeshan> isn't it 2^11?
[00:18:08] <zeeshan> i forget why
[00:18:09] <t12> looks like that does heat/cool
[00:18:10] <zeeshan> sign or something
[00:18:15] <t12> and voltage output
[00:18:26] <furrywolf> zeeshan: to quote what I just pasted, "12 bit + sign"
[00:18:26] <zeeshan> t12 where are you reading voltage output
[00:18:36] <t12> Process outputs
[00:18:36] <t12> 1 High level analogue output (optional):
[00:18:36] <t12> - For PV retransmission
[00:18:36] <t12> - Current (mA): 0/4...20 mA
[00:18:45] <zeeshan> yes but in current
[00:18:45] <zeeshan> :/
[00:18:58] * zeeshan looks at their other controllers
[00:19:02] <t12> also rs485
[00:19:07] <t12> you can just ask it temp via rs485
[00:19:09] <furrywolf> 4-20ma is very, very standard.
[00:19:14] <zeeshan> i know
[00:19:36] <zeeshan> i'd like to work with 0-5v or 0-10V!@ :P
[00:19:37] <t12> theres also 4-20 to voltage converters are easy
[00:19:48] <furrywolf> in fact, I'm surprised none of the mesa boards have 4-20ma inputs. I guess they figure you can just use your own resistor.
[00:20:11] <zeeshan> youd need a gain amplifier, no?
[00:20:17] <zeeshan> thats a pretty small current output
[00:20:37] <zeeshan> t12: after working with modbus, i notice that it is pretty slow :[
[00:20:50] <t12> http://www.omega.com/techref/das/4-20ma.html
[00:20:53] <furrywolf> 20ma across a 250 ohm resistor is 5V.
[00:21:15] <t12> how fast do you need
[00:21:26] <t12> at 2kw head/cool you shouldnt really need to sample that much
[00:21:31] <t12> s/head/heat
[00:21:39] <zeeshan> 5 samples per sec would be nice
[00:21:44] <zeeshan> to syncronize with my strain map
[00:21:47] <zeeshan> which can handle that
[00:21:49] <t12> depends on the device prolly
[00:21:56] <t12> i'd expect it to comm at 9600baud easy
[00:22:12] <t12> other than that the pid update loop which is often slow on these
[00:22:28] <zeeshan> okaky i see why 0-20mA is nice
[00:22:38] <t12> though i guess they could just read out the temp probe to serial outside the loop
[00:22:39] <zeeshan> you can use an appropriate resistor to output 0-5 or even 0to10V
[00:22:42] <zeeshan> makes sense
[00:23:06] <furrywolf> 0-20ma is rare. 4-20ma is standard.
[00:23:33] <furrywolf> and you don't usually want to do 0-10v, because that'll raise your loop voltage over 24v with many devices
[00:24:34] <zeeshan> this controller is like 300$?
[00:24:43] <zeeshan> nm
[00:24:44] <zeeshan> 75
[00:24:49] <zeeshan> http://www.eurothermcontrollers.com/ascon-x1-heat-cool-temperature-controller/
[00:25:04] <furrywolf> the 4ma has two purposes... it allows small devices to power themselves off the loop even when they have nothing to output, and it allows for instant, easy detection of a broken loop.
[00:25:21] <zeeshan> ah
[00:25:27] <t12> i think theres also a noise immunity thing
[00:26:56] <zeeshan> http://www.ascontecnologic.com/sites/ascontecnologic.com/files/MIU_X1_EN.pdf
[00:26:58] <zeeshan> page 10
[00:27:01] <furrywolf> being able to power sensors off the loop makes wiring much simpler - a sensor can have only two wires to it, for both power and signal combined.
[00:27:13] <zeeshan> pin 32 looks like L1
[00:27:33] <zeeshan> pin 31 looks like switched heating
[00:27:39] <zeeshan> and pin 33 looks like switched cooling
[00:27:40] <furrywolf> and knowing when you have a wiring fault is very useful in general. :)
[00:27:42] <zeeshan> am i correct? :)
[00:28:52] <furrywolf> that does look like what they explicitly tell you, yes. :P
[00:30:10] <zeeshan> i wonder if i can use this directly
[00:30:12] <zeeshan> for pressure control too!
[00:30:53] <zeeshan> yep ther is a deadband parameter..
[00:32:17] <furrywolf> probably not, unless it has a mode for a generic voltage input instead of a temperature sensor
[00:32:26] <zeeshan> thats what im lookin for
[00:32:54] <zeeshan> sweet you can set the setpoint remotely
[00:32:58] <zeeshan> t12: thank you!
[00:33:02] <t12> np
[00:33:36] <furrywolf> it does have a 0-50mv input it looks like
[00:34:08] <furrywolf> so you'd need to build a precision ($5/resistor) voltage divider for a 0-5v sensor
[00:34:24] <t12> if not theres likely a similar type of device for piding pressure
[00:34:32] <zeeshan> http://www.omega.ca/pptst_eng/PX309_mA.html
[00:34:36] <zeeshan> this output 0-25mA
[00:34:46] <zeeshan> er
[00:34:48] <zeeshan> 4 to 20 mA
[00:34:48] <zeeshan> .
[00:34:59] <zeeshan> t12 yea? which one
[00:36:00] <zeeshan> http://www.ascontecnologic.com/en/products/industrial-automation/advanced-programmer-controllers/x5-q5/x5
[00:36:05] <zeeshan> this one takes 0-5V inputs..
[00:36:21] <t12> and 4-20
[00:36:25] <zeeshan> perfect!
[00:36:49] <t12> i've not used that make
[00:36:59] <t12> so i cant vouch but
[00:37:02] <t12> specs look good?
[00:37:12] <zeeshan> yea it sounds good
[00:37:14] <zeeshan> and its cheap
[00:37:23] <t12> diying pids
[00:37:27] <t12> is so fkn annoying
[00:37:39] <t12> i've watched it go wrong very annoyingl
[00:37:40] <t12> y
[00:37:41] <zeeshan> haha
[00:37:51] <zeeshan> that 75$ is a clearance price
[00:37:57] <zeeshan> the x5 is even more expensive
[00:38:01] <t12> you'll find theres other vendors
[00:38:05] <t12> with similar stuff
[00:38:12] <t12> theres cheap china ebay ones too
[00:38:22] <furrywolf> I thought you had an infinite budget? :P
[00:38:31] <zeeshan> furrywolf: lol
[00:38:44] <zeeshan> its not infinite, but its large enough
[00:38:58] <zeeshan> i dont wanna spend all of it on just design and building
[00:39:02] <zeeshan> need room for troubleshooting
[00:39:04] <Tom_itx> he must spend it to get it
[00:39:22] <t12> you need an academic PO embezzeler
[00:40:12] <t12> theres a whole funny business of
[00:40:20] <t12> for large instutitions that only want to pay with PO
[00:40:26] <t12> and want to buy something off ebay
[00:40:38] <t12> you take their PO's, mark them up some percentage, and buy the thing off ebay and have it shipped to them
[00:41:26] <furrywolf> that's easy. you talk to your buddy at some place that takes POs, buy something from him for ten times list price, he gives you the thing and eight times the list price cash.
[00:42:04] <furrywolf> (and one times the list price goes into his pocket for helping out)
[00:42:27] <zeeshan> http://www.omega.ca/pptst_eng/CN7600_Series.html#ManualList
[00:42:28] <zeeshan> cheaper
[00:42:53] <zeeshan> i dont see pv/sv retransmission though
[00:42:55] <zeeshan> might be blind :)
[00:43:25] <zeeshan> does have rs485..
[00:43:50] <t12> you could always sample the temp over again
[00:43:55] <t12> with something easier to datalog from
[00:44:03] <zeeshan> trying to avoid external adc's
[00:44:31] <furrywolf> I have a hard time imagining anything that speaks rs485 not providing the current process input over it
[00:44:35] <zeeshan> if i cant figure it out
[00:44:37] <furrywolf> but, I'm eating, so I'll let you rtfm.
[00:44:38] <zeeshan> rs485 it is..
[00:46:01] <t12> rs485 is likely easiest way
[00:46:15] <zeeshan> i even have a modbus driver
[00:46:20] <zeeshan> ill just need communication addresses
[00:52:56] <zeeshan> is it common to use a contactor that gets actuated by the pid controller
[00:53:07] <zeeshan> so you can pretty much run unlimited heating elements? :p
[00:53:27] <t12> sure why not
[00:53:32] <t12> no need to run it all through the panel thing
[00:53:44] <zeeshan> this thing seems to be limtied to 5A .
[00:53:47] <zeeshan> @ 240vac
[00:54:08] * zeeshan likes omega, we have an account with them
[00:54:14] <zeeshan> so not a lot of bs when trying to order things
[00:55:14] <furrywolf> do you have ~2 months to get this entirely built and tested, collect data, analyze data, and write a thesis?
[00:55:27] <zeeshan> i got a year
[00:55:37] <furrywolf> ah, so you're not planning on graduating this summer. :P
[00:55:37] <t12> what is this thing again
[00:55:49] <zeeshan> yes furrywolf, id like to collect all my data this summer
[00:55:53] <zeeshan> and analyze during the winter
[00:55:59] <zeeshan> and revisit the experiment in the winter if i have to
[00:56:02] <zeeshan> and write the thesis then
[00:56:19] <zeeshan> t12: i am doing a biaxial tensile test of shape memory polymers
[00:56:31] <zeeshan> under temperature control
[00:56:49] <furrywolf> he's blowing sheets of them up like a balloon and watching them shrink when he heats them
[00:57:09] <t12> an engineering balloon fetishist
[00:57:13] <zeeshan> hahaha
[00:57:21] <furrywolf> correct
[00:57:35] <zeeshan> ive also found a temperature where this smp doesn't come to its original flat shape
[00:57:41] <zeeshan> i wanna scientifically show that temperature now
[00:57:50] <zeeshan> and show that it doesnt degrade the properties of the film even after hitting that temp
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[00:58:28] <furrywolf> as in, you stress it at this temperature, and then it won't return if you heat it?
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[00:59:12] <zeeshan> so you remember how after you stress it, it keeps that shape? but after you heat it to say 40c, it comes back to its original flat shape?
[00:59:16] <t12> is it an edge temp
[00:59:20] <t12> edge of range
[00:59:37] <zeeshan> i dunno, i keep calling it the melt temp, but the chem eng prof says its not
[00:59:52] <furrywolf> you need to find which polymer you need to make car body panels that won't soften in the hot sun, but return to shape if you aim a bunch of IR lights at them.
[01:00:07] <t12> for the rubbermaid car
[01:00:07] <zeeshan> so now if i take the flat sheet and make a balloon out of it, and heat it to this special temp
[01:00:26] <zeeshan> and then cool it , no matter how much i heat it, it stays as the balloon
[01:00:33] <zeeshan> if i deform it to some other shape, and heat it
[01:00:34] <furrywolf> so you've found the temperature that makes it decide its current shape is its new default shape
[01:00:36] <zeeshan> it'll stay as the baloon
[01:00:41] <zeeshan> yes
[01:00:48] <zeeshan> that actually makes me smile
[01:00:55] <zeeshan> cause all these guys told me it was impossible.
[01:01:01] <furrywolf> lol
[01:01:08] <zeeshan> firephoto: like it was impossible to get the 3d point cloud firephoto
[01:01:12] <zeeshan> furrywolf: , remember? :)
[01:01:46] <furrywolf> you should demonstate it by molding it, above this temperature, by pressing in SEE I TOLD YOU SO. then flatten it while it's cold. show them the flat sheet it, then heat it so it returns to the default shape... with the lettering.
[01:02:08] <zeeshan> i did
[01:02:15] <zeeshan> infact i did it in front of one of the profs
[01:02:19] <zeeshan> and he still didnt believe me?
[01:02:23] <furrywolf> lol
[01:02:31] <zeeshan> i think he's just upset he didnt find the temp
[01:02:32] <furrywolf> that's because it didn't tell him "I TOLD YOU SO".
[01:02:33] <furrywolf> :P
[01:02:54] <zeeshan> there is quite a bit of politics between the chem eng polymer group and metal forming mech eng group
[01:02:59] <zeeshan> its kind of silly and lame
[01:03:01] <furrywolf> the impossible-to-get 3d point cloud that some random person over the internet, having never seen the device before, recovered in a couple hours?
[01:03:02] <zeeshan> people need to grow up
[01:03:12] <zeeshan> lol
[01:03:20] <zeeshan> i still cant believe you found that memory address
[01:03:33] <zeeshan> i but the thermal camera stuff by flir is the same shit.
[01:03:53] <t12> lol
[01:03:56] <t12> academic fights
[01:03:58] <t12> i've seen some lol ones
[01:03:59] <furrywolf> flir is popular enough it's probably well-documented
[01:04:07] <furrywolf> politics is why I don't teach.
[01:04:11] <t12> the fancier the university the more insane they get
[01:04:28] <furrywolf> I was thinking of being a teacher. then I saw the politics...
[01:04:46] <zeeshan> its cause they have so much pressure to publish stuff
[01:04:49] <zeeshan> or they dont get funding
[01:04:55] <zeeshan> so it becomes cut throat competition.
[01:05:08] <t12> only sorta
[01:05:11] <t12> once they get old enough
[01:05:16] <t12> you just get grants by default
[01:05:16] <furrywolf> how is the polymer formed? solvent evaporation, or cooling of a molten mixture?
[01:05:24] <t12> i've watched senile professors run 30 person labs
[01:05:26] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i dont know
[01:05:30] <zeeshan> and im not supposed to find out either
[01:05:36] <furrywolf> lol
[01:05:37] <zeeshan> its propitery secret
[01:05:46] <zeeshan> i mean we have all the equipment to figure out its blend and stuff
[01:05:47] <t12> lol
[01:05:49] <t12> whos secret
[01:05:50] <zeeshan> but thats part of the agreement not to
[01:05:58] <furrywolf> is it thermoplastic or thermoset? :P
[01:06:00] <zeeshan> the company who provided it
[01:06:11] <zeeshan> furrywolf: it must be a thermoplastic
[01:06:27] <furrywolf> then it entirely makes sense that it'll keep its shape if you re-melt it. lol
[01:06:34] <zeeshan> but thats the thing
[01:06:37] <zeeshan> they know its a thermoplastic
[01:06:41] <zeeshan> yet they said you couldnt do that
[01:06:44] <zeeshan> that boggled my mind
[01:07:06] <furrywolf> so write a nice paper on the topic, and hope they don't fail you for disagreeing with them. :)
[01:07:16] <zeeshan> luckily he's not mysupervisor
[01:07:22] <t12> if they disagree
[01:07:43] <t12> just publish it under someone else
[01:07:48] <furrywolf> t12: many people are fully capable of disagreeing with solid evidence and/or reality
[01:08:05] <furrywolf> consider, say, the percentage of religious people on the planet...
[01:08:11] <zeeshan> haha dont start!!
[01:08:23] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx5VJ-puthA
[01:08:36] <zeeshan> for the first couple of frames, you can see the permanent shape
[01:09:36] <furrywolf> it won't let me set that video to non-hd. wtf?
[01:09:47] <furrywolf> this'll take an hour or so, and might kill my connection.
[01:09:50] <zeeshan> haha
[01:09:51] <zeeshan> it wont?
[01:10:13] <furrywolf> nope, it's stuck at 720 with the little HD icon showing... clicking it only gives 720.
[01:10:21] <zeeshan> hmm, i see all
[01:10:23] <zeeshan> im using chrome
[01:10:25] <zeeshan> what about you
[01:10:25] <furrywolf> looks like it's pretty short
[01:10:31] * furrywolf gets up and gets more food
[01:11:11] <furrywolf> firefox, but I doubt it matters
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[01:12:29] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/eZUJcUE.jpg
[01:12:31] <zeeshan> thats how i formed the shape
[01:12:32] <zeeshan> lol
[01:12:37] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZEoc3sc.jpg
[01:12:41] * zeeshan had to use what i could find in 5 min
[01:12:50] <furrywolf> can't load images while loading video
[01:12:53] <zeeshan> haha
[01:13:02] <zeeshan> steal your neighbours wifi!
[01:13:02] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[01:13:42] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[01:14:23] <furrywolf> machine a pair of plates to press something interesting into the material (positive and negative), clamp, stick in oven. remove, let cool, press flat. demonstate interesting thing appearing from flat sheet when heated.
[01:14:52] <zeeshan> i did
[01:14:57] <zeeshan> we have a standard punch test
[01:15:03] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/SNJK3En.jpg
[01:15:05] <zeeshan> remember the boobs?
[01:15:12] <furrywolf> maybe "An investigation into re-form temperature of shape memory polymers" and use it as the top of your article.
[01:15:18] <furrywolf> boobs? no
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[01:17:45] <furrywolf> so have you demonstrated this property is fully repeatable/reversible, and not permanent damage to the material?
[01:18:22] <zeeshan> i havent changed the ultimate permanent shape many times
[01:18:23] <zeeshan> just once
[01:18:27] <zeeshan> i dont see why it cant change agan and again
[01:19:02] <furrywolf> because your expert told you can't, obviously. :P
[01:19:12] <zeeshan> haha
[01:19:36] <zeeshan> he's an extremely smart guy
[01:19:49] <zeeshan> i just think its the politics coming out
[01:28:31] <furrywolf> annoy him more by naming it the zeeshan temperature of the material...
[01:34:56] <zeeshan> rofl
[01:35:08] <zeeshan> like the Currie temperature?
[01:35:09] <zeeshan> :-)
[01:35:37] <furrywolf> yep
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[01:41:49] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-other/brantford/free-solar-panel-systems/1056544507?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[01:41:52] <zeeshan> sounds like a scam ;]
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[01:45:38] <furrywolf> there's programs like that here too... they profit from your electricity.
[01:46:12] <Jymmm> eh, some gubermint power co rebate tax writeoff make you sign your home as collateral thingy
[01:46:19] <furrywolf> you let them use your roof, they give you 10% of the money, and keep 90%.
[01:46:43] <zeeshan> lol
[01:46:45] <furrywolf> or you could install your own panels, which requires an upfront cost, but you get to keep 100% instead of 10%.
[01:46:46] <zeeshan> what if the panels break
[01:46:59] <furrywolf> the panels are theirs for the first 20 years, so they fix them
[01:47:13] <Jymmm> zeeshan: says 25 year warranty, doens't say if labor is included
[01:47:37] <furrywolf> it's a way of getting to build a solar farm without having to do things like buy land for a solar farm.
[01:48:50] <furrywolf> in theory, it's a win-win. in reality, with you only getting 10% of the money, you'd have to make sure it exceeds the cost of additional roof costs (if you need a new roof during the next 20+ years...), hassle, etc.
[01:49:04] <CaptHindsight> did the US ever impose that tariff in imported Chinese solar panels?
[01:49:15] <zeeshan> i woulkdnt do it to my place :P
[01:49:45] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: can you buy panels direct from China without stiff import duties?
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[01:51:52] <furrywolf> there's no programs like that in this immediate area, because it's not profitable with the lack of sun here, but in southern california I've heard of them several times.
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[02:16:31] <norias> hi
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[02:31:59] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: not sure :P
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[02:45:27] <furrywolf> GRRR. I just converted a really nice pilot-point bit into a blank for grinding a lathe cutter from.
[02:51:31] <renesis> thats like how my .005" tip 30 degree pcb cutters turn themselves into engraving bits
[02:52:02] <renesis> i have lots of carbide engraving bits now
[02:56:03] <CaptHindsight> renesis: any crafty uses for broken glass? :)
[02:56:38] <renesis> nothing that feels safe
[02:56:47] <renesis> tempered glass?
[02:57:18] <renesis> you could do some artsy composite with clear resin
[02:57:23] <CaptHindsight> mix with mortar and apply to top of brick fence and walls
[02:57:27] <Tom_itx> pottery?
[02:57:47] <renesis> i dont think you can fire glass to pottery temps
[02:57:52] <renesis> maybe boro
[02:58:08] <renesis> capthindsight: i think ive seen that
[02:58:10] <CaptHindsight> transparent resin cube with neat glass shards
[02:58:17] <renesis> like, with broken bottles, somewhere in LA
[02:58:43] <renesis> right you can put that on a white pedastool and sell it for $300 at a gallery
[02:58:47] <CaptHindsight> http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/524191/524191,1269018779,6/stock-photo-broken-glass-on-the-top-of-the-wall-49065337.jpg
[02:58:55] <renesis> maybe like 5 of them so you have a body of similar work
[02:59:18] <renesis> yeah thats looks much more intentional
[02:59:20] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOjn-mqhta4
[02:59:29] <SpeedEvil> Make Recycled Glass Tile 17 - Encapsulated
[02:59:41] <renesis> what im remembering, it looked like the workers threw their beers into the sides of the cement mixer
[02:59:43] <CaptHindsight> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/bd/a8/e5/bda8e54ae7fbce6f2062e65c70900a66.jpg this will keep the prowlers from coming back
[03:00:07] <renesis> yeah that would be cool with broken mirror
[03:00:34] <renesis> or you do a frame and put a resin layer, sprinkle with glass, and then more resin over top
[03:00:46] <renesis> leave rough, flip, broken glass floor
[03:00:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.angieslist.com/files/styles/adslider_full/public/null/GlassCountertop10.jpg?itok=x1L0asE6
[03:01:06] <renesis> smooth surface, would be all die hard going to the bathroom at night
[03:01:13] <renesis> feel like a real hero
[03:01:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.home-style-choices.com/image-files/recy-glass-ctops1-500x332.jpg
[03:01:37] <renesis> the last one is expensive
[03:01:44] <renesis> when its finished like that
[03:02:02] <renesis> they do metal shavings in resin with smooth finish like that
[03:02:31] <renesis> cabinet shop i worked at had huge pieces of it
[03:03:16] <renesis> something like that is a lot sexier than security fence
[03:04:09] <furrywolf> glass on top of a wall is crap. all it takes is a swing with a hammer and wearing leathers.
[03:04:36] <CaptHindsight> yeah a pro is over and passed it in no time
[03:04:49] <renesis> if you have tools you can defeat most stuff
[03:04:59] <CaptHindsight> it's more for people who might wander in without planning
[03:05:10] <renesis> razor wire is the same
[03:05:17] <Tom_itx> put it in front of your window ... aka home alone
[03:05:25] <renesis> pro their is gonna be like whatever, few seconds with some bolt cutters
[03:05:26] <CaptHindsight> thats what the automated machine gun nests are for
[03:05:34] <renesis> samsung makes those
[03:05:39] <norias> oh hell
[03:05:41] <norias> people chatting
[03:05:47] <furrywolf> yes, it keeps those out, while also serving as a big sign saying "you know we have good stuff. you WANT to break in here. you know you do."
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[03:06:37] <renesis> yeah why even lock doors
[03:06:42] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Cxmha3h6c Jail Gun Turrets from Idiocracy
[03:06:42] <norias> fuck it
[03:06:46] <norias> i don't
[03:06:57] <norias> i just carry a gun everywhere
[03:07:04] <norias> go ahead... come on in...
[03:07:07] <norias> castle doctrine here
[03:07:14] <Tom_itx> yeah leave the door open, just rig it to the trigger of a shotgun
[03:07:18] <renesis> i live on edge of college frat district, i lock the shit to keep drunks from accidentally wandering in
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[03:13:58] <CaptHindsight> shameless plug; I put the anodizing colorants that don't need water up on the one site of anyone wants to do fancy anodizing
[03:14:10] <CaptHindsight> of/if
[03:14:19] <CaptHindsight> http://bucktownpolymers.com/anodize00.html
[03:16:50] <zeeshan> one day ill try anodizing!
[03:18:12] <zeeshan> furrywolf: hows your tool grinding going
[03:22:34] <furrywolf> I'm not grinding tools. I'm just converting perfectly good drill bits into objects suitable only for grinding into other tools.
[03:22:49] <zeeshan> lol
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[03:24:47] <norias> oh. copenhagen.
[03:28:23] <zeeshan> finally broke my 15.00$ shop vac that ive had for like 8 years now. so much abuse
[03:28:30] <zeeshan> and the reason it broke is cause the cord split :/
[03:30:05] <zeeshan> how do you guys rejoin 110/240vac cables?
[03:30:11] <zeeshan> butt crimps?
[03:30:15] <zeeshan> + electrical tape
[03:30:31] <furrywolf> ... split? or you cut through it with something? lol
[03:31:00] <furrywolf> solder, shrink tube, tape... butt splices, tape... solder, tape... fancy little 3-sided screw in block things... or just having a shorter cord.
[03:31:05] <zeeshan> well it was chafing for a while and ruined the outer pvc jacket
[03:31:10] <zeeshan> so i covered it with tape
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[03:31:28] <zeeshan> over time, the internal conductors 's jackets wore out from getting bent all the time
[03:31:32] <zeeshan> and then the copper split
[03:32:08] <zeeshan> i thought you werent suppose to solder ac voltage stuff
[03:32:38] <norias> i've definitely seen ac stuff soldered
[03:32:46] <zeeshan> i see it soldered on pcb boards
[03:32:50] <zeeshan> but never like for distribution
[03:32:57] <norias> i've seen
[03:32:58] <norias> well
[03:33:03] <norias> tinned ends on wire
[03:33:34] <furrywolf> there's nothing wrong with soldering, as long as you're good at it.
[03:33:51] <zeeshan> i remember reading something about whiskers
[03:33:52] <furrywolf> soldering IS still approved for us mains wiring, as long as you're extending a house that had it originally. :)
[03:34:40] <norias> incidentally
[03:34:49] <norias> healthcare reform
[03:34:50] <norias> wtf
[03:35:00] <norias> if this is how we reform stuff, please let's not do that anymore
[03:35:52] <norias> i'm looking at buying health insurance for my wife and I
[03:35:58] <norias> sure, cool, no problem
[03:36:01] <norias> and it made me wonder
[03:36:14] <norias> what do i do if / when i have a first employee?
[03:36:24] <norias> i thought, eh, let them pick whatever plan they dig
[03:36:29] <norias> and reimburse for it
[03:36:34] <norias> nope. illegal.
[03:37:24] <norias> unless, you just happen to pay employees more money
[03:37:31] <norias> and have f'ing clue what they do with it
[03:37:37] <norias> and they just happen to buy insurance
[03:51:08] <furrywolf> I hate harbor freight. really, really hate harbor freight. or maybe it's china.
[03:51:15] <zeeshan> haha
[03:51:17] <zeeshan> what happened
[03:51:39] <furrywolf> I bought a 25ft air hose reel a couple years ago. I used it maybe 5 times, then decided it was too short, and replaced it with a 50ft reel. I got it out today to install for another purpose... the spring is broken.
[03:52:02] <norias> heh
[03:53:35] <furrywolf> I discover this, of course, AFTER it's screwed to the wall and plumbed in.
[03:53:55] <norias> as is often the case
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[04:14:46] <furrywolf> http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/comment-image/33604.jpg so what do you figure the towing capacity of a prius us?
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[04:18:18] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: how about inspecting 4 shop presses until you fin one that looks good then when you get it back to the shop discover that the return spring won't fit since they welded the frame halves to close together
[04:18:34] <furrywolf> lol
[04:19:42] <CaptHindsight> I ended up only having to grind a little off the make it fit, but whatever you do check they will still find some way to fool you
[04:19:43] <PetefromTn_> any of you guys real good with home network media streaming?
[04:20:37] <furrywolf> not I.
[04:20:55] <PetefromTn_> sheeet
[04:20:56] <furrywolf> given as I don't have much of a home network, the only media I have is music, and I don't stream it.
[04:21:43] <PetefromTn_> just picked up a nice Onkyo Audio Video Network receiver and trying to get it setup to stream music from my laptop and phone etc as well as all the rest of the stuff it can do.
[04:22:11] <PetefromTn_> damn this is about as complicated as hal LOL
[04:23:16] <furrywolf> does it access the files and play them, or does the player run on the computer and it sends decoded audio over the network?
[04:23:35] <PetefromTn_> either I think.
[04:23:58] <PetefromTn_> its pretty smart and apparently can control Windows Media Player remotely if I can figure out how to set it up
[04:24:10] <PetefromTn_> I just can't seem to get it on the home network visible
[04:24:31] <PetefromTn_> at least when I turn it on a component pops up but it is a generic one and has no information
[04:24:45] <furrywolf> well, if it streams audio instead of files, it's going to need special software installed on each system...
[04:24:56] <PetefromTn_> but I suck at home networking stuff and don't really know what the hell I am doing
[04:25:31] <PetefromTn_> I don't think so the manual says it works directly with WMP
[04:26:01] <furrywolf> sounds like the problem isn't home networking, it's windows networking and proprietary software.
[04:26:16] <PetefromTn_> http://www.eu.onkyo.com/downloads/2/0/6/3/1/Manual_TX-NR414_En.pdf
[04:26:20] <PetefromTn_> page 26
[04:26:48] <PetefromTn_> I got it to play pandora and whatnot
[04:27:02] <PetefromTn_> and it is playing movies in surround sound nice and clean
[04:27:16] <PetefromTn_> also plays my cellphone stuff via usb
[04:27:26] <furrywolf> that's a large manual.
[04:27:27] <PetefromTn_> just can't seem to get the networking going
[04:27:52] <PetefromTn_> yeah these things are pretty amazing nowadays and this one is not the best or brightest but it is pretty sweet.
[04:28:19] <PetefromTn_> I have WMP12 on the laptop
[04:30:30] <furrywolf> I just have my stereo plugged into a usb sound card on my laptop.
[04:32:33] <furrywolf> I don't have any other sound output devices or file storage locations. heh.
[04:37:34] <furrywolf> and I don't have windows media player. :)
[04:38:19] <PetefromTn_> figured there might be others here who would know a bit about it.
[04:39:38] <furrywolf> I think they're all asleep, which is what I should be too.
[04:39:53] <PetefromTn_> probably
[04:42:42] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[04:48:45] <norias> enjoy
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[04:59:09] <PetefromTn_> Holy shit I think I just figured it out...
[05:00:31] <PetefromTn_> AWESOME!!!! LOL
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[05:09:20] <PetefromTn_> Now I can enjoy my music WHILE I do my Cad drawings for this damn one off pair of parts I am making tomorrow
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[06:21:04] <Deejay> moin
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[08:19:25] <RyanS> interesting that electric crucible furnaces mostly seem to be square, youd think the heating wouldn't be uniform
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[08:21:57] <RyanS> http://www.rayteq.com/images/nickel_chrome_4.jpg
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[10:50:45] <SpeedEvil> Radiation dominates extremely over convection at high temperatures
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[12:25:43] <jthornton> mill.glade targets Gtk+ 2.16 But this version of Glade is for GTK+ 3 only. Make sure you can run this project with Glade 3.8 with no deprecated widgets first.
[12:25:58] <jthornton> oh nice another surprise
[12:26:49] <_methods> gotta love the latest and the greatest
[12:26:58] <jthornton> yea
[12:29:24] <_methods> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-first-9-computer
[12:29:33] <_methods> $9 raspi lol
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[12:30:09] <_methods> hah that pencil as a kickstand is cool idea
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[12:54:05] <Jymmm> jthornton: I don't know how much you get yours for...
http://www.dx.com/p/universal-water-resistant-car-motorcycle-1a-2-1a-dual-usb-charger-adapter-for-cellphones-385209
[12:54:54] <Jymmm> jthornton: dual cigar jacks...
http://www.dx.com/p/car-center-console-dual-port-female-cigarette-lighter-black-385223
[12:56:34] <JT-Shop> I use the Blue Seas brand
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[13:25:11] <JT-Shop> while the tractor is out of the way I figured I'm mow but the rider has a leaker and it's flat, to get it off I need to move some steel to get to the floor jack... no wonder I don't get much done
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[13:33:31] <_methods> hehe you're not having much luck with teh mower lately
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[13:36:07] <JT-Shop> I sealed the front tires a few years ago with rim seal but it still leaks... time to get new ones for the front
[13:42:03] <JT-Shop> I did manage to get the mail box latch adjusted lol
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[15:12:54] <ssi> shit
[15:13:03] <ssi> saratoga down off pdk, four dead
[15:15:35] <FinboySlick> ssi: saratoga being a plane?
[15:15:50] <ssi> yes
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[16:58:05] <swarfer> just updated to 2.6.7, should I update the kernel rtai package too?
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[17:05:58] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Did you ever get that rotary table auto-toolpost to work?
[17:06:37] <_methods> PetefromTn_: i got outbid on all the rotabs
[17:06:43] <_methods> they all went for over $900
[17:07:08] <FinboySlick> _methods: Wait, was it you working on that?
[17:07:13] <_methods> nah
[17:07:27] <_methods> i've just been keeping an eye out at auctions for pete on rotabs
[17:08:21] <_methods> there were 8 rotabs at this last auction thought i might be able to get one for $500 or less
[17:12:49] <PetefromTn_> why hell no..
[17:12:51] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[17:13:30] <PetefromTn_> It's all good man I am kinda tapped out right now.
[17:13:39] <PetefromTn_> Just bought a new liner and filter for my pool
[17:13:42] <_methods> cool i would have sat on it for ya
[17:13:47] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: What better to energize yourself than to build your own? ;)
[17:14:05] <PetefromTn_> gotta get that bitch setup so we can chill around the pool this summer!
[17:14:13] <PetefromTn_> Thanks man I appreciate it.
[17:15:28] <_methods> yeah i can afford to sit on $500 for a few lol
[17:15:43] <PetefromTn_> Wish I could LOL
[17:15:58] <PetefromTn_> I must admit I kinda indulged myself last night tho..
[17:16:05] <_methods> i try and keep a few $$ around for hot deals
[17:16:25] <PetefromTn_> I have been enjoying our Denon AV reciever I bought years ago for a LONG time now
[17:16:26] <_methods> $500 hrt-210 = hot deal
[17:16:38] <PetefromTn_> and it does not have HDMI unfortunately
[17:16:49] <PetefromTn_> so I have been looking for an alternative
[17:17:01] <_methods> i just buy med grade recivers anymore
[17:17:15] <_methods> i quit buying high end audiophool stuff
[17:17:26] <PetefromTn_> Managed to find a basically brand new Onkyo networked HDMI reciever for a song!
[17:17:33] <_methods> i got a yamaha avr750 or soemthing like that now
[17:17:37] <PetefromTn_> This thing looks like it just came out of the box literally
[17:18:00] <_methods> has 5 hdmi i think
[17:18:02] * FinboySlick really likes the Yamaha receivers.
[17:18:22] <PetefromTn_> I swear it is so kickass to be able to stream awesome music from my Cellphone or Pc
[17:18:30] <PetefromTn_> Yamaha makes GREAT stuff
[17:18:40] <_methods> yeah i got that yamaha for like $200 on newegg
[17:18:42] <PetefromTn_> I had that Denon forever and it is AWESOME
[17:19:25] <PetefromTn_> but this thing is so networked it is not even funny and it literally integrates my flatscreen and Blu ray and everything else together
[17:19:30] <PetefromTn_> So Sweet
[17:19:41] <PetefromTn_> 130 watts across the fronts
[17:19:47] <_methods> yeah it's nice i can control all my stuff from my phone now
[17:19:52] <PetefromTn_> been streaming Pandora all morning
[17:19:54] <_methods> i don't need a remote at all
[17:20:03] <PetefromTn_> yeah this does that too on their Onkyo ap
[17:20:08] <PetefromTn_> Sweetness
[17:20:15] <PetefromTn_> I am totally loving this thing
[17:20:32] <PetefromTn_> Gotta get my Miller and Kreisel Sub out of the closet and hook it up again
[17:20:57] <PetefromTn_> It really sounds great I swear
[17:21:08] <PetefromTn_> I STOLE this thing on Craigslist
[17:21:48] <PetefromTn_> My kids are home today and they are like DADDY TURN DOWN THE MUSIC!! ;)
[17:21:50] <_methods> yeah i had an onkyo before i got my yamaha
[17:21:56] <_methods> the hdmi board on the onkyo died
[17:22:12] <PetefromTn_> I know that is a problem with quite a few receivers out there
[17:22:14] <PetefromTn_> sucks
[17:22:22] <PetefromTn_> hopefully that will not happen with this one
[17:22:31] <_methods> i tried to reflow the hdmi chip and i think i got it too hot
[17:22:45] <zeeshan> http://www.genswiss.com/images/tapcollets1.jpg
[17:22:48] <zeeshan> has anyone used these?
[17:23:14] <PetefromTn_> I like the audio controls on this thing
[17:23:23] <_methods> yeah i loved my onkyo
[17:23:23] <zeeshan> http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v2/494687016/ER32_Tap_Collet.jpg
[17:23:24] <PetefromTn_> not too complex but gives you what you need
[17:23:24] <zeeshan> or this
[17:23:26] <_methods> till it died
[17:23:37] <_methods> it gave good tunes while it was alive though
[17:23:55] <PetefromTn_> Gonna put the Denon in our bedroom and run my Boston Acoustics up there
[17:24:38] <PetefromTn_> I almost bought the top of line Yamaha when I bought my Denon years ago it was a close race between the Onkyo, Denon, and Yamaha at the time
[17:24:42] <_methods> i've been so happy with my cheapo yamaha i'll just buy sub $300 stuff now
[17:24:47] <PetefromTn_> All of them were over $1500.00
[17:25:14] <PetefromTn_> but this thing has lasted so long and STILL works I think it was a bargain
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[17:26:19] <PetefromTn_> methods It always seems like you and I have a lot in common for some reason...
[17:26:41] <_methods> it's the heat lol
[17:26:51] <_methods> fla heat lol
[17:26:58] <_methods> melted your braino
[17:27:07] <PetefromTn_> I wish I could feel some of that Florida Heat right now LOL
[17:27:24] <_methods> a tropical depression just spun up right on top of us
[17:27:44] <_methods> we're overdue for a hurricane for sure
[17:27:44] <PetefromTn_> I thought you were in SCar
[17:27:48] <_methods> i am
[17:28:03] <PetefromTn_> well that doesn't qualify man sorry LOL
[17:28:08] <_methods> hahaha
[17:28:22] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I heard about that storm
[17:28:34] <PetefromTn_> I remember we used to have Hurricane Parties down there ;)
[17:28:44] <_methods> yeah we haven't had one of those in awhile
[17:29:42] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_DKWlrA24k I love this song..
[17:31:23] <zeeshan> http://www.vargus.com/shaviv/
[17:31:26] <zeeshan> made in israel?
[17:31:46] <PetefromTn_> I have several of those they are very good.
[17:31:59] <zeeshan> im thinking of grabbging the Eset
[17:32:03] <zeeshan> its on sale at a local supplier
[17:32:07] <zeeshan> i have the B set
[17:32:12] <_methods> noga and shaviv
[17:32:16] <zeeshan> looks like a slighly thicker blade
[17:32:16] <_methods> isreali
[17:32:23] <PetefromTn_> there is one with a plastic shaft and one with a steel sheaft
[17:32:38] <zeeshan> the mango handle thing?
[17:32:40] <PetefromTn_> I like the steel telescoping shaft better
[17:32:40] <zeeshan> with the stripes?
[17:32:43] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[17:33:03] <Rab> zeeshan, I have one and it's pretty good.
[17:33:15] <zeeshan> nice
[17:33:23] <zeeshan> i never tried them, i got the handles w/ a tool haul
[17:33:25] <zeeshan> but no blades
[17:33:33] <_methods> i have 6 of em
[17:33:38] <Rab> Although the one that I have is the one that takes both blade sizes, and I recommend avoiding that because it has trouble holding onto the small blades.
[17:33:40] <_methods> best whirligigs around
[17:33:54] <_methods> the deburr kit is nice
[17:34:02] <_methods> includes a bunch of diff deburr tools
[17:34:09] <_methods> it's expensive but worth it
[17:34:55] <zeeshan> im gonna just grab the e set
[17:34:57] <zeeshan> and some b blades
[17:35:06] <zeeshan> the eset is on sale for like 10 bux
[17:35:13] <zeeshan> comes with e100 e200 e300
[17:35:19] <zeeshan> for brittle, soft, and inside corners
[17:35:25] <_methods> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=891-5273&cm_mmc=SEM-_-GGL-_-PLA-_-NA&003=18299132&010=891-5273&gclid=CKbo25fXssUCFUo7gQodxn4Aew
[17:37:06] <_methods> the little pencil ones are nice too
[17:37:32] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/SHAVIV-151-29134-Glo-Burr-Series-Deburring/dp/B003JY7LBU
[17:37:38] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Mango-II-Set-E-Heavy-DeBurr-w-E100-E200-E300-Blades-Shaviv-Part-90065-/311212511288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4875b61038
[17:37:39] <zeeshan> this thing
[17:38:16] <zeeshan> i was talkin to a cnc machinist
[17:38:26] <zeeshan> he uses regular er32 collets to hold his taps?
[17:38:37] <zeeshan> not even the er 32 rigid collets with the square thing built in
[17:38:38] <_methods> you can but..........
[17:38:49] <_methods> good way to bust a tap
[17:38:54] <_methods> but you can get away with it
[17:39:03] <zeeshan> bust it how?
[17:39:04] <PetefromTn_> we did it all the time
[17:39:18] <_methods> if it slips in the collet as you retract or drive
[17:39:20] <_methods> it will break
[17:39:38] <zeeshan> a regular collet is like $10, a square rigid collet thing is $20, a floating collet is $50
[17:39:40] <zeeshan> =/
[17:40:04] <_methods> er32 spring tap collets
[17:40:34] <norias> aren't there er32 collets...
[17:40:38] <norias> with the square in the back
[17:40:42] <norias> to drive taps?
[17:40:43] <_methods> yeah that make tapping ones
[17:40:45] <_methods> with the square
[17:40:50] <_methods> s/that/they
[17:41:02] <zeeshan> norias:
http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v2/494687016/ER32_Tap_Collet.jpg
[17:41:13] <norias> yeah, that's what i thought
[17:41:17] <zeeshan> http://www.ctctools.biz/er32-tapping-collet-with-torque-limiter-l152/
[17:41:23] <zeeshan> hmm these arent too badly priced..
[17:41:53] <norias> seems to me i've done it a bunch
[17:42:04] <norias> if we broke taps it was because we had programmed something wrong
[17:42:11] <norias> or simply using the wrong tap
[17:42:15] <zeeshan> hehe
[17:42:21] <_methods> i've had taps slip in not tap spring collets
[17:42:29] <zeeshan> how big a tap tho?
[17:42:29] <norias> i.e. using wrong tap design / coating
[17:42:33] <zeeshan> im lookin at < 3/8 unc
[17:42:35] <_methods> every size
[17:42:36] <zeeshan> maybe unf
[17:42:52] <norias> i mean, if you're going to buy collets
[17:42:59] <norias> why not buy the ones that drive taps?
[17:43:06] <zeeshan> $$$
[17:43:08] <zeeshan> but for 20 bux
[17:43:10] <zeeshan> its doable
[17:43:21] <_methods> they pay for themselves pretty quickly
[17:43:21] <norias> you don't need them for every size
[17:43:28] <_methods> a broken tap is money down the drain
[17:43:35] <norias> just the sizes that are for taps
[17:43:50] <norias> i mean, 20 bucks for a collet is pretty good
[17:43:57] <norias> how long do they last?
[17:44:00] <JT-Shop> I just use regular collets to rigid tap
[17:44:06] <norias> how many parts will you get out of it?
[17:44:09] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: whats the largest size?
[17:44:12] <zeeshan> youve used
[17:44:20] <norias> i've done 1/2-13
[17:44:32] <norias> without the tap type
[17:44:51] <norias> after 1/2-13 we just thread mill
[17:44:59] <zeeshan> that makes sense
[17:45:10] <norias> big taps and drills cost money in inventory
[17:45:20] <norias> sit around forever because they only occasionaly got used
[17:45:27] <JT-Shop> 3/4 10
[17:45:32] <norias> thread milling took more time to do / program
[17:45:34] <zeeshan> ha okay, so regular collets it is :)
[17:45:37] <norias> but it was occasional
[17:45:48] <norias> i mean, if you try it and it doesn't work
[17:45:54] <norias> eh, get the right collet
[17:45:59] <JT-Shop> the tap has to be in good shape...
[17:46:38] <JT-Shop> I look at them with the microscope before use and 99% of the time use ElectraLube taps
[17:47:09] <zeeshan> i have spiral flute taps id like to start using
[17:47:17] <zeeshan> but been afraid to ruin a part by rigid tapping :P
[17:47:43] <PetefromTn_> nothing sux more than a frackin' snapped tap
[17:47:45] <JT-Shop> spiral flute for blind holes only
[17:48:17] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i snapped one by hand happing in an expensive chunk of bronze :(
[17:48:33] <zeeshan> i ended up drilling it with carbide with success!
[17:48:43] <zeeshan> but even with that, it took forever
[17:48:47] <JT-Shop> yuck tapping bronze
[17:49:09] <_methods> which goes back to the point of $10 extra for a tap collet..........
[17:49:23] <_methods> what's your time/scrapped part worth
[17:49:28] <zeeshan> that had nothing to do w/ it though
[17:49:39] <zeeshan> i angled the 1/4" tap too much
[17:49:42] <zeeshan> my fault
[17:49:46] <_methods> i'm sure
[17:49:57] <zeeshan> cause the next 20 holes went fine :P
[17:49:58] <PetefromTn_> just did that myself in a piece of stainless steel
[17:50:10] <PetefromTn_> took me two hours to machine the damn thing thru
[17:50:13] <zeeshan> haha
[17:50:27] <PetefromTn_> smoked a maritool 1/8 inch carbide but I got the sucker out
[17:50:31] <PetefromTn_> saved my bacon
[17:51:09] <PetefromTn_> good taps are worth EVERY THIN PENNY!
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[17:51:23] <_methods> yep
[17:51:28] <_methods> i only use osg
[17:52:16] <JT-Shop> OSG here too
[17:52:29] <JT-Shop> they have an awesome tap selector
[17:52:33] <_methods> yeah
[17:52:52] <_methods> i'd rather spend a few extra $$ and know i'm good to go
[17:52:56] <archivist> local EDM shop is worth some folding cash now and again
[17:53:03] <JT-Shop> yea, saves a ton of time
[17:53:08] <_methods> amne
[17:53:18] <_methods> tap disentigrator baby
[17:54:09] <archivist> I got moaned at last time, you didnt say it was that deep!
[17:54:09] <_methods> been trying to get one for our shop for awhile now or a cheap sinker
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[17:55:08] <ssi> hrm
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[17:58:14] <fogl> is it possible to call/use functionality from one hal .ko module in a another hal .ko module. I would like to load wire pins of two comp modules within the code instead of within the hal setup. Is this possible to do, how?
[17:59:24] <cradek> that's not typically how hal works, and if you could make it happen, it would violate your users' expectations.
[17:59:52] <cradek> it sounds like maybe they shouldn't be separate components if they are that intimate with one another
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[18:00:59] <witnit> is there any issues direct driving loads with brush dc servos at 0.13 rpm?
[18:01:26] <fogl> what i am actually trying to do is try to use the RTnet-RTcfg.ko from one hal module instead from commandline.
[18:02:30] <fogl> Is it possible to somehow control one .ko module from hal module.
[18:03:50] <archivist> witnit, add a flywheel maybe
[18:12:45] <witnit> Should maybe I buy very high resolution encoder?
[18:13:01] <witnit> positioning is less important than anything else
[18:13:07] <witnit> just smoothness
[18:17:23] <archivist> depends, do you want a wide speed range, responsive acceleration, or smooth low speed
[18:18:29] <archivist> I can imagine a high res encoder would help
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[18:27:31] <witnit> yes smooth slow is all thats needed. very slow single motion pause for 2 min and return same speed
[18:28:14] <witnit> i suppose just a high resolution and rather large motor to handle that stalling type torque
[18:28:49] <archivist> and a driver to handle the stall current
[18:29:13] <witnit> yes, just an oversize amp for the motor should be okay
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[18:34:44] <PCW> .13 RPM is ~ 1/500 turn per second so getting a good velocity signal for feedback depends on a high res encoder
[18:36:40] <PCW> how high depends on how smooth it needs to be (how much angular position jitter is tolerable)
[18:37:07] <archivist> is the mechanical load steady or not
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[18:40:43] <PCW> high smoothness with high acceleration is hard to get
[18:45:50] <archivist> I can imagine the commutation varying the loop somewhat
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[19:00:40] <PCW> The PID can take care of that if it has good enough velocity data
[19:00:42] <PCW> (encoders on high end machine tools have gone from 10000 counts/turn in the 80s to 1M counts in the 90s, current Fanuc high end drives use 32M count/turn encoders)
[19:02:01] <archivist> and fast enough fpgas to match :)
[19:02:05] <PCW> not so much for position resolution but for velocity feedback
[19:03:05] <PCW> basically all high res encoders are serial so interface is nothing special
[19:04:10] <SpeedEvil> I keep wondering about optical interferometric encoders.
[19:04:45] <archivist> me too
[19:04:58] <SpeedEvil> Forget all this nonsense about 'scales'
[19:05:04] <archivist> I got an educational inteferometer
[19:05:32] <PetefromTn_> I'm kind of an interferer....;)
[19:05:32] <archivist> tried it with a laser level
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[19:26:10] <JT-Shop> ouch the canopy for the Kubota is $450... don't think a new one is in my future
[19:26:33] <_methods> machine one lol
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[19:29:46] <_methods> how much do you normally have to derate vfd for single phase?
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[19:33:02] <JT-Shop> smaller ones usually take single phase up to rated hp
[19:33:13] <_methods> 5hp?
[19:33:24] <JT-Shop> 3hp is usually the limit
[19:33:32] <_methods> yeah
[19:33:42] <JT-Shop> what are you running with it?
[19:33:51] <_methods> i got a vfd that is "supposed" to be rated to 5hp
[19:33:53] <_methods> table saw
[19:34:14] <_methods> but i'm about to get another lathe i think
[19:34:31] <_methods> so was going to pick up a vfd for that but i don't know what hp it is yet
[19:35:01] <JT-Shop> a manual lathe?
[19:36:06] <_methods> yeah
[19:36:41] <JT-Shop> why not have a RPC?
[19:36:48] <_methods> well i could do that too
[19:36:57] <JT-Shop> simple to make
[19:37:07] <_methods> i have an old 10hp 3phase motor sittin around
[19:37:21] <_methods> got it off craigslist for $50 lol
[19:37:38] <JT-Shop> there you go
[19:37:46] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/rpc/rpc.xhtml
[19:38:03] <_methods> ah nice
[19:38:04] <_methods> thx
[19:38:22] <JT-Shop> I have a 20hp that runs my shop, self starting is nice
[19:41:15] <_methods> what potential relay did you go with?
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[19:42:43] <JT-Shop> Mars II 169, pick up 180-193 drop out 105
[19:42:43] <PetefromTn_> ssi ya there man?
[19:42:59] <JT-Shop> #19169
[19:43:49] <_methods> alrighty then
[19:43:51] <JT-Shop> I used Packard contactor from electrical supply house
[19:43:58] <JT-Shop> they are cheap
[19:44:06] <_methods> yeah not bad
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[19:45:02] <_methods> a lot cheaper than a vfd lol
[19:45:23] <JT-Shop> my RPC is named Linus
[19:45:32] <_methods> does it give you the bird
[19:47:18] <JT-Shop> no he just sucks his thumb... Linus van Pelt
[19:47:45] <_methods> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://vang.blob.core.windows.net/images/2013/03/26/linus-torvalds-220612.jpg
[19:47:49] <_methods> hehe
[19:47:53] <_methods> oops
[19:48:02] <_methods> http://vang.blob.core.windows.net/images/2013/03/26/linus-torvalds-220612.jpg
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[19:49:02] <_methods> damn i had no idea linus had a last name
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[19:50:08] <furrywolf> it would seem this laptop has an overheating issue. bleh.
[19:50:25] <furrywolf> today is the hottest day so far this year... came home to find my laptop dead and smelling _hot_.
[19:50:48] <furrywolf> turned it off and let it cool for a bit. now I have the a/c on, which should help the way-too-hot issue.
[19:51:25] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, Kubota canopy = blue tarp from walmart for $5
[19:52:02] <Tom_itx> just mowed before the floods come
[19:52:21] <furrywolf> (where "the a/c" is an old window unit stuck in front of a window that it doesn't fit in, because you don't need real a/c here.)
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[19:53:19] <FinboySlick> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_JtyJk4lTI :)
[19:54:54] <PetefromTn_> http://abcnews.go.com/US/people-aboard-plane-crashed-atlanta-highway/story?id=30901882
[19:55:13] <furrywolf> ah good. batteries still floating at 28.6 even with the a/c on.
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[19:55:51] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, it's a plastic top
http://www.covermytractor.com/Kubota-B7500-Tractor-Canopy-and-Tractor-Sunshade-s/4559.htm
[19:56:20] <JT-Shop> except the sides got ripped off and I cut the top down to the frame and now it is useless
[19:56:59] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: plane crashes are bad
[19:57:11] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, well in that case a kiddy pool flipped over :)
[19:57:27] <JT-Shop> now your close, we were thinking a small car hood
[19:58:06] <PetefromTn_> no shit
[19:58:17] <PetefromTn_> just hoping it is not SSI
[19:58:22] <PetefromTn_> he is in that arae
[19:58:26] <Tom_itx> pimp my ride...
[19:58:27] <PetefromTn_> area
[19:58:50] <furrywolf> the faa should work harder to push ballastic parachutes for small planes
[19:59:14] <Tom_itx> they can generally glide quite a ways
[20:00:37] <furrywolf> quite a ways being about 12:1 of their height, to pick a random number. this means that on takeoff, not quite a ways.
[20:01:17] <_methods> nah ssi was just talkin about the crash
[20:01:27] <Tom_itx> well that's what happened to the one that took out the flight simulator building here recently
[20:01:57] <Tom_itx> engine stalled and it knive edged on it's side into it
[20:02:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.kansas.com/news/business/aviation/article3561289.html
[20:03:06] <Tom_itx> ironic it took out the flight safety building
[20:03:38] <furrywolf> we had a pilot killed here last year... engine failure (reasons still being investigated), tried ditching in a river, hit trees next to the river first, didn't make it.
[20:04:35] <furrywolf> for ironic deaths, a local business here had an osha crane inspector electrocute himself driving the manlift he was inspecting into power lines.
[20:04:58] <furrywolf> his job, of course, including telling people how not to do that.
[20:06:06] <furrywolf> if he'd caught an employee operating the manlift that close to powerlines, he'd probably have written them up for safety violations...
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[20:47:55] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Well, at least the eulogy would be in the form of an easily available form.
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[21:01:56] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:06:52] <Computer_barf> so im wondering how endstops are typically protected from flood coolent
[21:07:09] <Computer_barf> placed under the bed?
[21:08:23] <furrywolf> yay, pile of firewood cleaned up, area mowed... it is way too fucking hot to do anything else outside. now it's time for inside projects until 10pm or so.
[21:10:01] <MrSunshine> hot .. if it only was that
[21:10:02] <furrywolf> also, I've learned my cheapo window a/c ices up if you leave it on "low" too long. yay proper engineering... not.
[21:10:17] <MrSunshine> here its like 9 degrees C at its highest peak atm on the day ... blowing from north
[21:10:24] <MrSunshine> feeling like a real viking when im outside :P
[21:10:25] <zeeshan> its like 30C here
[21:10:25] <zeeshan> so nice
[21:10:34] <furrywolf> 30C is way too hot
[21:10:35] <MrSunshine> looks like its fall outside still =)
[21:10:38] <MrSunshine> yeah thats too hot
[21:10:43] <MrSunshine> 18 or so is nice =)
[21:10:54] <furrywolf> it's like 20C here. too hot!
[21:11:05] <zeeshan> lol i used to lkive in the middle east
[21:11:07] <furrywolf> (65-70F... for this area that's a heat wave)
[21:11:08] <zeeshan> it used to hit 50 C sometimes
[21:11:31] <MrSunshine> ough
[21:11:36] <zeeshan> http://www.worldweatheronline.com/Doha-weather-averages/Ad-Dawhah/QA.aspx
[21:11:39] <zeeshan> thats where i lived :D
[21:12:12] <zeeshan> thats the type of heat where you just start breathing fast asap you feel it
[21:12:13] * furrywolf wouldn't live a place it got that hot
[21:14:28] <furrywolf> http://www.worldweatheronline.com/Kneeland-weather-averages/California/US.aspx nearest place with a name
[21:14:29] <furrywolf> (and a weather station)
[21:15:37] <zeeshan> wtf
[21:15:40] <zeeshan> its freezing there
[21:16:02] <furrywolf> note the scale on the rainfall graph is a factor of 10 different than the one you pasted. lol
[21:16:25] <furrywolf> yes, we average >20 days of rain a month in the winter.
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[21:17:07] <furrywolf> hrmm, that's just showing the eureka weather, not kneeland specifically. here is the same temps but more rain. (upslope)
[21:17:47] <gene78> got a bug in 2.8.0pre1-602
[21:18:16] <furrywolf> zeeshan: no it's not freezing! note the average winter low is 4C. this is above freezing.
[21:18:30] <zeeshan> figuratively
[21:18:32] <zeeshan> :)
[21:18:39] <gene78> spindle override does nothing when the program set it and started it, so I can't slow it down
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[21:20:25] <furrywolf> you'll want to report that at
http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/bugs/
[21:20:46] <furrywolf> I don't think any devs are here to see it.
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[21:23:45] <renesis> pinnacle of engineering
http://www.gfycat.com/LoneVictoriousBrownbutterfly
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[21:27:09] <furrywolf> ... ok?
[21:27:41] <XXCoder1> nice
[21:27:52] <XXCoder1> parts ejectors to lose weight and go faster lol
[21:31:57] <witnit> thanks pcw, literally the only job is to move a set of hoses with freon in them 70 degrees and pause two min and go back to home at a rate of .13 rpm. load is constant load is slow. however, the hoses will drop to tempurature of -40degree, during this time. I wanted servo and encoder to ensure it is constant yet managable
[21:33:08] <furrywolf> what're you building?
[21:33:16] <witnit> test chamber for hoses
[21:33:46] <furrywolf> ah
[21:34:04] <furrywolf> I was trying to figure out what interesting mechanical device depends on changing the orientation of some cooling apparatus...
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[21:36:56] <zeeshan> witnit
[21:36:57] <zeeshan> lol
[21:37:00] <zeeshan> sounds similar to what im doin
[21:37:11] <zeeshan> damn temperature controlled environments :[
[21:38:22] <witnit> oh? do tell :)
[21:38:57] <zeeshan> im doing biaxial tensile testing of a film in a temp controlled enviroment
[21:39:03] <zeeshan> and also pressure control
[21:39:11] <witnit> film?
[21:39:14] <zeeshan> yea
[21:39:29] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/zJRzJ8I.jpg
[21:39:35] <zeeshan> basically that in a chamber
[21:39:41] <zeeshan> needs to go between -10 to 260C
[21:42:27] <witnit> all i see is some... texture
[21:42:36] <witnit> how thin is this "film"
[21:43:41] <zeeshan> 8 thou
[21:44:04] <zeeshan> i should take more pictures
[21:44:19] <zeeshan> showing the process :[
[21:44:31] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/azSTtTa.png
[21:44:35] <zeeshan> thats the apparatus im working on
[21:44:39] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ronLyGG.png
[21:44:40] <witnit> do you have to pressurize it from one direction?
[21:44:43] <zeeshan> yes
[21:46:07] <witnit> what is the outside diameter of the cooling tank?
[21:46:14] <witnit> that is what im looking right?
[21:46:15] <witnit> jajajaja
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[21:46:18] <zeeshan> haha
[21:46:27] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/N1whRmt.png
[21:46:30] <zeeshan> you can see it better here
[21:46:33] <zeeshan> theres a heating block
[21:46:36] <zeeshan> and a cooling block
[21:46:53] <witnit> ahh got it now
[21:46:54] <zeeshan> (where a heat transfer fluid is stored at -20C) circulates through it
[21:47:09] <zeeshan> im hoping by switching the heating elements on and off
[21:47:18] <zeeshan> and coolant solenoid on and off.. i can regulate temp
[21:48:15] <zeeshan> how is your device working?
[21:48:20] <witnit> did you use your boring head and make big orings to hold the material or do you just sandwich the stuff?
[21:49:15] <zeeshan> i dont have a lock bead -- i did some testing and i saw that the material doesnt slip
[21:49:20] <zeeshan> wedging it is good enough
[21:49:32] <furrywolf> bbl, off to harbor freight... need gloves.
[21:49:41] <witnit> i dont know, im just putting together some components for this guy to put on until he can do it all with plc, he apparently got really busy and needs some testing done and filler parts
[21:50:43] <furrywolf> while you're testing a/c hoses, want to make a pair for my subaru? :P
[21:51:03] <witnit> I think they only sell them in lots of 100,000
[21:51:05] <witnit> :P
[21:51:29] * furrywolf needs a custom one-of-a-kind set of hoses. :P
[21:51:37] <zeeshan> ah its a test setup for testing ac hoses
[21:52:14] <witnit> my only concern zeeshan was due to tempurate changes and warping it may pinch unevenly
[21:53:33] <furrywolf> I put in a different engine, and neither the compressor that fits the engine nor the car body plumbing have standard fittings...
[21:53:56] <witnit> typical
[21:54:11] <zeeshan> i just weld some fittings up using the stock flanges :P
[21:54:39] <furrywolf> maybe you have a tig welder. I do not. :P
[21:54:50] <witnit> you should build a little cnc and make conversion fittings for every part you need
[21:55:05] <furrywolf> I have a little cnc. it needs more work, however.
[21:55:13] <witnit> oh yes i recall
[21:55:26] <witnit> you had maybe a bent leadscrew in shipping
[21:56:21] <furrywolf> I did the power steering with adapter fittings and standard JIC ends.
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[21:56:38] <furrywolf> fixed the leadscrew... oxytorch and hammer.
[21:57:22] <zeeshan> https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_B3BtH3gPoLtJp4ZpIFSzvK6f2r2qqXBbYgiS-IMA-NtTOdASuwY8Wg
[21:57:23] <zeeshan> those?
[21:57:27] <zeeshan> luckily they are pretty standard :D
[21:57:31] <zeeshan> and you can buy em eeasily
[21:57:55] <furrywolf> no, not those. that's bump flare, mine were metric inverted flare.
[21:58:10] <furrywolf> those are standard. the ones I needed were ebay from a specialty shop that turned their own fittings. heh.
[21:58:20] <zeeshan> http://www.detroitspeed.com/images/090202-001-lg.jpg
[21:58:43] <zeeshan> earls, russel performance, and also xrp performance have em
[21:58:44] <furrywolf> that's another of the o-ring varieties. I have no o-rings. :P
[21:59:46] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-x-14-1-5mm-Inverted-Flare-AN-fitting-Metric-6-x-M14-1-5-/271464679726
[22:00:09] <furrywolf> note the commonly-available aluminum ones that have the same thread will NOT work - they're o-ring face seal, not inverted flare.
[22:00:21] <zeeshan> ah okay
[22:01:18] <furrywolf> "These parts were made in house at Sweet Performance. " is how you get the rare weird fitting. :P
[22:02:03] <furrywolf> early '80s subaru and nissan were the only thing that used them, from what I could find googling.
[22:02:25] <XXCoder1> yank it
[22:02:41] <XXCoder1> or make that weirdass fitting to more standard one adoptor
[22:02:58] <furrywolf> XXCoder1: I bought
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-x-14-1-5mm-Inverted-Flare-AN-fitting-Metric-6-x-M14-1-5-/271464679726 (and two others)
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[22:03:52] <XXCoder1> cool
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[22:08:58] <furrywolf> I hate inkjets. trying to print a harbor freight coupon... out of ink and/or clogged.
[22:09:12] <XXCoder1> inkjets heh I never owned one and never will
[22:09:17] <XXCoder1> lasers all way
[22:09:42] <renesis> if you dont use them constantly they fuckup
[22:09:51] <XXCoder1> yeah
[22:10:10] <renesis> my laser has feed issues because 12 years old, but print quality is still fucking awesome
[22:10:26] <XXCoder1> mine died due to design flaw :(
[22:10:34] <renesis> =(
[22:10:37] <XXCoder1> but it saved me enough money to buy 2 of it
[22:10:41] <XXCoder1> \compared to inkjet
[22:10:50] <XXCoder1> so it was worth it
[22:11:03] <renesis> yeah toner carts are maybe $20, and last hundreds of pages at least
[22:11:21] <XXCoder1> mine was small business (larger than home ones)
[22:11:28] <XXCoder1> so cardiages was $100 for black
[22:11:35] <witnit> pssst buy lasers
[22:11:36] <XXCoder1> but it lasted thousands of faces
[22:11:49] <furrywolf> I print very little color.
[22:11:52] <witnit> i use a black only laser printer
[22:12:16] <furrywolf> the coupons are, of course, things like red on yellow, that you have to print in color.
[22:12:21] <XXCoder1> mine was color. seperate cardiages so color ones was still orginal when it died lol
[22:12:27] <witnit> payed for it self on the first toner cartridge
[22:13:15] <witnit> its printed tens of thousands of pages
[22:14:20] <witnit> not the cartridge... the printer hahaah
[22:14:26] <XXCoder1> heh
[22:14:39] <XXCoder1> I was thinking gallon sized cardiages lol
[22:15:11] <witnit> its still works, i took it to the shop for the guys to use and bought another one just like it
[22:15:19] <furrywolf> grrr, I can't find the special long 90 I had to buy to make the hoses route.
[22:15:28] <furrywolf> it's a standard part, just can't find the part number again.
[22:19:39] <furrywolf> http://hosewarehouse.com/190260-16S-SAE-JIC-37-Deg-Swivel-90-Degree-Long-Fitting-100R5-Reusable
[22:19:51] <furrywolf> note it's long on the jic end, not the hose end.
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[22:25:31] <furrywolf> bbl
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[23:35:20] <zeeshan> TGIF
[23:35:20] <zeeshan> TGIF
[23:35:20] <zeeshan> TGIF
[23:35:27] * zeeshan apologizes for the flood
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