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[00:06:51] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: It looks like they use zeners for current sense, and a resistor for voltage sense. two different products. I suppose you could add your own resistor externally
[00:07:47] <SpeedEvil> Not following
[00:08:26] <Jymmm> SCT-013 datasheet shows pinout
[00:09:10] <SpeedEvil> err - what?
[00:10:04] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/images/product/2009511142810295.gif
[00:10:33] <SpeedEvil> Err - no.
[00:10:39] <Jymmm> no what?
[00:10:43] <SpeedEvil> the zener is to prevent overvoltage
[00:10:58] <SpeedEvil> it's always used in linear mode with the output at a small AC voltage
[00:11:01] <Jymmm> Look at the part numbers
[00:11:31] <renesis> ew miniplug
[00:11:35] <renesis> those bastards
[00:11:57] <SpeedEvil> yes - small AC voltage across a current sensing resistor - either outside or inside
[00:12:41] <SpeedEvil> The zener is there to prevent large overvoltages which may cause damage if not connected to an appropriate load resistor
[00:13:16] <Jymmm> so you're saying there are two zeners AND a resistor internally?
[00:14:22] <SpeedEvil> One sort has two zeners, one sort has one resistor
[00:15:03] <Jymmm> Right
[00:15:59] <SpeedEvil> You use the sort with zeners with a small resistor so as to develop ~1V across it at max reading
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[00:16:22] <Jymmm> if you add two pair of coils, it could be self powered
[00:16:46] <Jymmm> well, 2.1V
[00:17:04] <SpeedEvil> That's 2.1V at maximum output.
[00:17:16] <Jymmm> and use a step up module to get 3.3v
[00:18:05] <SpeedEvil> not really.
[00:18:14] <SpeedEvil> you ahve a whole 33mW@100A input
[00:18:41] <SpeedEvil> half that for the voltage mode - assuming it's the same
[00:18:56] <Jymmm> It's $3, who cares if it's not isolated?
[00:18:59] <SpeedEvil> And @10A, 3.3mW
[00:19:01] <SpeedEvil> It's isolated.
[00:19:13] <Jymmm> your right, it is
[00:19:33] <Jymmm> so $1 for the step up and $2 for the wifi
[00:20:10] <Jymmm> plus diode bridge for havewave
[00:20:13] <Jymmm> half wave
[00:22:01] <SpeedEvil> http://in1.ccio.co/wC/IF/SF/165507355026349973Pw1dBVGgc.jpg
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[00:41:49] <Jymmm> cute
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[00:53:48] <Tom_itx> pcw_home on the 7i47s i must have a 10v source to connect to the analog+ - pins in order to get a 0-10v out on the pin correct?
[00:56:24] <Tom_itx> it would have been nice for a 10v reference on the board with an option to enable it since alot of spindles use 10v
[00:57:55] <Tom_itx> ok so i may make a r divider off the 15v supply. how much current would be required for the reference and drive signal?
[01:00:13] <Tom_itx> i might be able to use the 15v reg and regulate it down to 10v since all it powers is the board i will be eliminating using the 7i47s
[01:01:53] <furrywolf> 5v zener. :P
[01:02:17] <Tom_itx> it's got a pot for adjustment
[01:02:42] <Tom_itx> i set it and glued it so it wouldn't change due to vibration
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[01:13:52] <s1dev> anyone looked at EDM?
[01:18:19] <furrywolf> define "looked at"
[01:18:37] <furrywolf> at least a couple people here have edm machines in their shop
[01:18:49] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/13232-looking-to-wire-edm-any-current-users
[01:18:57] <Tom_itx> thread on it
[01:19:25] <s1dev> I'm trying to figure out how difficult the control would be
[01:24:42] <Tom_itx> no idea
[01:25:14] <Tom_itx> the one i saw at stuart's shop had separate drives on the top and bottom for the wire
[01:25:37] <Tom_itx> or were you not talking about wedm
[01:26:36] <s1dev> I havevn't done anything with EDM, I need to drill holes in 4 axes
[01:30:26] <PetefromTn_> Evening folks! ;)
[01:33:05] <Tom_itx> http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/edm
[01:33:13] <Tom_itx> s1dev, maybe cradek is
[01:33:20] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_
[01:33:29] <Tom_itx> got ridid tapping working
[01:34:32] <PetefromTn_> Hey Tom yeah man I have had Rigid tapping working for awhile now
[01:35:15] <Tom_itx> i got mine goin last night
[01:35:30] <Tom_itx> on the sherline
[01:35:32] <PetefromTn_> have a customers project I am prototyping right now that will be probably using it a good bit LOL.
[01:35:39] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah no kidding... Wow.
[01:35:53] <PetefromTn_> What did you do to make it work?
[01:36:02] <Tom_itx> all sorts of stuff
[01:36:17] <Tom_itx> and i'm fixin to change it i think
[01:36:34] <Tom_itx> i'm using that board zeeshan|2 sent me for the spindle control
[01:36:38] <PetefromTn_> what size tap can you run?
[01:36:48] <Tom_itx> added some relays for rev etc
[01:36:53] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[01:37:17] <Tom_itx> i've been bench testing the code for now but it's working
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[01:37:28] <Tom_itx> also modded my cad cam for a rigid tap cycle
[01:37:36] <PetefromTn_> Oh so you have it reversing and responding to code then.
[01:37:42] <Tom_itx> yup
[01:38:19] <Tom_itx> i put ms delays in the code so the relays switch under little or no load
[01:38:27] <furrywolf> my sherline only goes one direction, and has no software spindle control. heh.
[01:38:42] <Tom_itx> the drive has an inhibit so i pulse that and switch the relays during the inhibit signal
[01:38:45] <furrywolf> if I had the 5" Y version, I might be tempted to improve it, but with only 3" Y travel, my sherline is remarkably useless.
[01:39:00] <Tom_itx> furrywolf i'm using the original drive control
[01:39:48] * furrywolf sticks an r/c servo to the panel with a little timing belt, and sets linuxcnc's spindle pwm to look like servo pulses
[01:41:53] <Tom_itx> furrywolf you can get a driver that has reverse but i didn't wanna buy it
[01:42:02] <Tom_itx> so i modded mine and it seems to work fine
[01:42:21] <Tom_itx> mostly code mods and a couple relays
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[01:42:42] <Tom_itx> i did have to get an isolation board since the GND on the driver board floats
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[01:44:05] <furrywolf> I find my sherline too small for me to want to add features to it... the 3" Y travel really pisses me off.
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[01:44:45] <Tom_itx> i'm doing it mostly for the coversion experience
[01:45:16] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/spindle_drive/
[01:45:23] <Tom_itx> those are the boards i've used
[01:45:38] <Tom_itx> i think my stock control is the KBIC
[01:45:46] <Tom_itx> the KBIS is the isolation board
[01:45:46] <furrywolf> boards sounds complicated. I like me idea of just sticking a servo on the speed pot. :P
[01:45:59] <Tom_itx> it's pretty simple really
[01:46:10] <Tom_itx> no more complicated than wiring a vfd
[01:46:35] <Tom_itx> just some of the 'vfd' part was done in linuxcnc
[01:47:28] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 sent me the C6 board but i may eliminate that with the 7i47s
[01:48:58] <furrywolf> I'm going to put all my energy into the shoptask for a while.
[01:49:05] <Tom_itx> i think others have tried to use that board with little success
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[01:49:18] <Tom_itx> but it does work ok
[01:50:09] <furrywolf> right now my sherline uses flashcut, which is crap and evil, but I'm not going to spend the money converting it to linuxcnc... and still only have 3" of Y travel.
[01:50:20] <PetefromTn_> honestly I used the CNC4PC C11G board on my RF45 build and from what I understand the board you have was basically built into that board electronically speaking.
[01:51:09] <Tom_itx> furrywolf i built my control strong enough to expand the mill
[01:51:21] <Tom_itx> that's why it's so big compared to the mill
[01:51:54] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ yeah the C6 didn't really support reverse
[01:52:13] <Tom_itx> nor did my driver
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[01:53:02] <PetefromTn_> really? My machine did but honestly I don't remember how it was wired. I believe I used the solid state relays on the board to switch reverse.
[01:53:47] <furrywolf> "For safety, nail guns are designed to be used with the muzzle touching the target. Unless specifically modified for the purpose, they are not effective as projectile weapons." lol. the first test of any new nailgun purchase is to aim it at someone far away and see how hard it hits it. "not effective" my ass.
[01:53:49] <Tom_itx> the board has relays on it but i don't think it was really meant to support reverse
[01:54:20] <furrywolf> s/someone/something
[01:56:44] <furrywolf> if I add reverse to my sherline, it'll be a simple mechanical relay.
[01:56:55] <Tom_itx> i ended up adding my ssr i originally had been using for on/off back to the drive to shut it down on an M5
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[01:57:43] <PetefromTn_> my Teco VFD I used just used a logic signal for reverse as I recall.. but don't remember for sure. It was just 0-10v and reversing.
[01:58:01] <Tom_itx> yeah they make it simple
[01:58:13] <Tom_itx> i didn't wanna buy a new driver
[01:58:25] <Tom_itx> i could have gotten one with reverse
[02:00:44] <Tom_itx> next is to add back the 7i47s instead of the 7i47
[02:01:05] <Tom_itx> i got a couple relays off ebay to use when i switch to that since they're built on the C6 boarde
[02:13:04] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ any progress on the tool changer?
[02:15:34] <PetefromTn_> Why hell no ;)
[02:15:58] <PetefromTn_> Been busy with other things unfortunately.
[02:16:32] <PetefromTn_> I have several CNC jobs going on for customers right now and doing prototyping for one or two more... Finally getting some work in here.
[02:16:34] <Tom_itx> same here
[02:16:48] <Tom_itx> only last couple days have i been able to mess with the mill at all
[02:17:21] <Tom_itx> all the more reason to get it working!
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[02:17:45] <PetefromTn_> This weekend we FINALLY managed to put the hand glazed finish on our wall cabinets and got them installed in the kitchen.
[02:18:19] <PetefromTn_> Now all I have to do is make all the doors and drawer fronts and finish them and it will FINALLY be done.
[02:18:39] <PetefromTn_> Probably gonna make some nice raised panels on the shaper for it.
[02:20:43] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I agree I NEED to get it working so I can walk away during some of these small production runs I am doing lately.
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[02:52:33] <furrywolf> going through a pile of yard sale tools... some wrenches I've not seen before. Boker? adjustable wrench, seems of good quality. Barcalo of Buffalo (rare, but I think I have one other), "MF" (looks like Proto?), and KKK, a brand named without concern to any connotations the name may have...
[02:54:01] * furrywolf bets archivist has all of these
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[03:12:46] <furrywolf> wirdey? wildey?
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[03:13:10] <furrywolf> wildes?
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[03:14:49] * furrywolf pokes archivist
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[03:15:55] <furrywolf> I can't find anything on these, in any way I can think I'm mis-reading the name.
[03:23:11] <furrywolf> I think it's wirde kcma or wilde kcma...
[03:25:31] <renesis> wtf kkk brand tools
[03:25:40] <renesis> is it made in china?
[03:25:56] <furrywolf> Japan
[03:26:07] <furrywolf> seems to be high-quality japan, not cheapo
[03:26:26] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/mysterypliers01-small.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/mysterypliers01.jpg what do you read that as?
[03:27:30] <renesis> those are the same lionk
[03:27:35] <renesis> its kind of ambiguous
[03:27:55] <renesis> Wiedy or Wiede
[03:27:59] <furrywolf> except one's scaled down to about quarter size, which makes it much easier to read.
[03:28:40] <renesis> and KCMA
[03:28:56] <furrywolf> the 3rd and 5th are not the same, so not wiede
[03:29:29] <renesis> dunno the 5th just looks smaller, its not like its typeset
[03:30:16] <renesis> okay Wildy Wilde Wiedy Wiede
[03:30:22] <furrywolf> I'd bet the master was very carefully engraved
[03:30:50] <pcw_home> Tom_itx: yes the 7I47S needs a 10V (or 5 or 15V) supply
[03:30:57] <furrywolf> I think I've tried all of those, with zero results. heh.
[03:31:19] <cradek> I can only see it as Wilde, KC Mo
[03:31:43] <cradek> uh
http://wildetool.com/
[03:31:44] <pcw_home> its basically an isolated digital potentiometer
[03:32:12] * furrywolf tried wilde. several times.
[03:32:38] <cradek> but they still make pliers
[03:32:44] <cradek> why do you think it's not wilde?
[03:33:06] <furrywolf> because google did not find any matches when I searched for it?
[03:33:21] <cradek> Wilde Tool was located in Kansas City until 1955. In 1955 they moved the operations from Kansas City to Hiawatha, KS.
[03:33:28] <furrywolf> ... it could be google was broken, or I typoed something, because it's finding them now. lol
[03:33:32] <cradek> so they're pre-1955
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[03:34:33] <furrywolf> wilde was one of the first things I tried, because it's a common name. before even asking on irc. grr.
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[03:34:47] <cradek> much clearer logo:
https://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/Photos/tools/wilde_402_pliers_diag_kcmo_f_cropped_inset2.jpg
[03:36:01] <furrywolf> this pair is an odd shape...
[03:36:44] <furrywolf> yep, that's the logo. much more readable when not all rusty.
[03:37:29] <cradek> I admit I guessed KC Mo on yours, when I couldn't really see the o, but I think the rest is really clear
[03:37:59] <furrywolf> I think I didn't find anything because I had KCMA
[03:38:06] <cradek> aha
[03:38:14] <cradek> my search was wilde tools kansas city
[03:39:06] <furrywolf> hrmm, still made in the USA. I'll need to remember that.
[03:40:01] <furrywolf> now that just about every single brand is china... crescent, irwin, craftsman, klien, allen, etc, etc...
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[03:40:37] <cradek> http://www.ebay.com/itm/141654444619
[03:40:37] <furrywolf> the new vise-grips are garbage
[03:41:49] <cradek> patented 1928:
https://encrypted.google.com/patents/US1800447
[03:42:55] <cradek> so yours are from somewhere between 1931-1955
[03:43:14] <cradek> ish
[03:43:32] <furrywolf> their construction makes me think on the earlier end of that. no chrome, feels very old and hand-made.
[03:44:02] <cradek> this other example has the patent number stamped, so yours could have been pre-patent, but I kind of doubt it
[03:45:59] <furrywolf> they look older than anything google images is finding
[03:46:24] <cradek> sure could be 20s-30s
[03:46:37] <cradek> it's fun to find and use good old stuff
[03:48:02] <furrywolf> they're in good condition. steel feels quality.
[03:49:18] <furrywolf> why is it that old tools still work better than brand new chinese tools? lol
[03:50:20] <roycroft> the chinese keep their good tooling for themselves
[03:50:34] <roycroft> they send us crap because we're willing to accept crap as long as it is cheap
[03:50:37] <roycroft> don't blame the chinese
[03:50:43] <roycroft> blame the cheapness of the american consumer
[03:51:09] <cradek> I think that's absolutely true
[03:51:25] <cradek> they are given a price point, they meet it
[03:51:58] <cradek> $4.99 for a set of six shapes of pliers? You got it.
[03:52:20] <furrywolf> yes, and with six pairs, you might get six uses before you've thrown them all out.
[03:52:30] <roycroft> and you'll get it next week as well
[03:52:32] <roycroft> and the next week
[03:52:37] <roycroft> as you buy them over and over
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[03:53:27] <roycroft> why buy something expensive that lasts a long time when you can get something new and shiny every time?
[03:53:45] <furrywolf> ... because when it breaks it costs me time?
[03:53:56] <roycroft> your time is worth nothing
[03:53:57] <cradek> I don't mind cheap crap, what bothers me is expensive crap
[03:54:00] <roycroft> unless you're the 1%
[03:54:24] <roycroft> and if you were the 1% you would not be on irc
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[03:54:52] * furrywolf tries to buy quality tools, not liking having tools break
[03:55:00] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: You see, you have no life:)
[03:55:05] <furrywolf> most of mine come from yard sales, and many of them will outlast most brand-new tools
[03:55:20] <roycroft> if i know i'm going to abuse a tool and likely break it i'll get the cheapest thing that i can get that i think will get the immediate job done
[03:55:34] <roycroft> otherwise i try to buy quality tools that last
[03:55:45] <roycroft> but keep in mind that i've been buying tools for 40 years
[03:55:57] <roycroft> when i was young i bought a lot of cheap tools because i had few tools
[03:56:02] <roycroft> and i could get more cheap ones than expensive ones
[03:56:11] <roycroft> as i got older i replaced the cheap tools with good ones
[03:56:18] <roycroft> and now i have a lot of tools
[03:56:27] <furrywolf> I only buy chinese when I need a tool now. otherwise I wait until I find a quality one used.
[03:56:54] <roycroft> i'm now in a mode where i buy duplicate tools so i don't have to run from one shop to the other for a tool
[03:57:04] <roycroft> not duplicating everything, of course
[03:57:20] <roycroft> but the most commonly used tools
[03:57:35] <LeelooMinai> Not all Chinese tools are "non-quality". Even some on aliexpress cn be quality and maybe not dirt-cheap, but good value
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[03:58:06] <roycroft> good value is the key
[03:58:16] <furrywolf> I have some good-quality Japanese tools. I have no good-quality Chinese tools.
[03:58:16] <roycroft> a good tool is one that is appropriate for the job at hand
[03:58:23] <furrywolf> Japan makes some of the best sex toys too. :P
[03:58:49] <roycroft> if i'm going to open a fire hydrant i don't need a precision spanner
[03:59:12] <roycroft> i need a big durable one
[03:59:17] <LeelooMinai> Just a good raincoat
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[04:00:08] <furrywolf> if you're going to open a fire hydrant you need a special fire hydrant spanner. :P
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[04:00:28] <furrywolf> standard tools do not grip pentagonal shapes well.
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[04:02:44] <cradek> I bet chinese pipe wrenches would do it :-)
[04:03:23] <furrywolf> they're 5-sided just to make sure your random tools _won't_ do it. lol
[04:04:18] <furrywolf> I might buy a brand new pair of locking pliers, if I can find good ones.
[04:04:33] <furrywolf> my vise-grip collection has been dwindling care of people borrowing them.
[04:04:44] <furrywolf> I tried buying a new pair from the local hardware store, but they sucked.
[04:05:22] <furrywolf> they were floppy and twisted sideways
[04:06:11] <roycroft> i don't borrow tools out
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[04:07:02] <roycroft> i used to borrow tools occasionally, with the rule that they be returned by sundown in the same condition as they left
[04:07:22] <roycroft> neither of those stipulations were respected consistently
[04:07:39] <roycroft> so the only way people use my tools now is at my shop under my supervision
[04:08:06] <roycroft> however, if you borrow your tools out that would be a good justification for buying some cheap chinese tools
[04:09:45] <furrywolf> http://www.amazon.com/Grip-On-131-10-10-Inch-Locking-Nickel-Plated/dp/B001G0MH0E anyone ever try those?
[04:10:11] <furrywolf> I question their ability to grip small objects, despite the second bump in the jaws
[04:14:06] <furrywolf> http://www.cripedistributing.com/irwin-tools-37-2-pc-original-locking-pliers-set-contains-1-10wr-and-5wr-usa.html heh, or I can buy NOS vise grips
[04:19:56] <furrywolf> several forum threads suggest the grip-on ones, made in spain, are the best currently available
[04:20:25] <furrywolf> they're sold rebranded as proto and snap-on
[04:21:54] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[04:24:51] <furrywolf> " Even the people who worked for Irwin making those called them "Rice Grips."" lol
[04:24:53] <furrywolf> bbl
[04:26:38] <Crom> nice though it's tailored to ethernet
http://wiki.wrtnode.com/index.php?title=Starting
[04:27:44] <Crom> lacking in generic GPIOs
[04:31:51] <Crom> it has wifi and 5 wired ethernet ports
[04:35:27] <archivist> furrywolf, dunno about all, some, there are hundreds of different makes
[04:37:57] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vise-Grip-10CR-10-Locking-Pliers-Curve-Jaws-Rare-Made-in-USA-/251220996238 I see ebay sellers have found yet another way to rip people off.
[04:38:24] <furrywolf> $50+shipping for a $10 pair of vise-grips
[04:39:20] <furrywolf> bbl, sleep
[04:46:40] <Crom> wooo looks like 22 pins can be set to GPIO at least 18 to input or output, 1 is input only
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[04:53:34] <Crom> 580 mhz single board 50mmx50mm board MIPS chip w/ wifi
[04:54:14] <Crom> now that would be nice to get linuxcnc running on
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[05:19:23] <Computer_barf> http://pastebin.com/epbfzVa9
[05:19:57] <Computer_barf> I have the first bit up at the top , and the other bit at the bottom of my hal file. I'm just wondering if this code makes any sense
[05:20:14] <Computer_barf> i previously saw it like this:
[05:20:54] <Computer_barf> net estop-loop parport.0.pin-15-in iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
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[05:54:28] <Computer_barf> ok I tested that code and it didn't load.. but this did:
[05:54:35] <Computer_barf> net estop-loop hm2_7i76e.0.7i76.0.0.input-03 iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[05:57:48] <Computer_barf> it would be cool to know if this usage is insane or not
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[06:09:22] <Computer_barf>
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[06:56:29] <Deejay> moin
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[13:40:39] <jthornton> you know spring is in the air when you start finding ticks attached to areas that don't get much sun
[13:46:38] <_methods> ouch
[13:46:48] <_methods> permethrin is your friend
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[13:47:48] <jthornton> yea, I was just looking for it...
[13:48:07] <jthornton> guess a new can is in the cards today
[13:52:20] <_methods> hose the boots down real good and be happy lol
[13:52:45] <_methods> i used to shoot my belt and boots and that would do the trick most of the time
[13:53:15] <_methods> unless i was in kentucky or some other tick infested land
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[14:32:42] <FinboySlick> Rab: Do you know if Phoenix Connector provides cad for their parts? I can't seem to find out the hole size and shape that needs to be made.
[14:33:14] <FinboySlick> Sorry, I mean Phoenix Contact
[14:34:13] <archivist> just calculate from the pin size, often a datasheet has hole info
[14:35:02] <FinboySlick> archivist: Well, in this case it's a square hole:
http://media.digikey.com/Photos/Phoenix%20Photos/0707248.JPG
[14:35:20] <FinboySlick> I have a constraint on the overall width too.
[14:35:38] <Swapper> http://www.tracepartsonline.net/(S(3my55vd0scldmp5zhb3f5oeo))/content.aspx?Class=PHOENIX_CONTACT
[14:35:43] <Swapper> can that be of use?
[14:35:56] <archivist> remember to allow some clearance
[14:35:58] <Swapper> dont know if its any good though
[14:36:43] <archivist> they will route that with a small carbide bit so corners will have a radius
[14:37:25] <FinboySlick> archivist: Actually, I'll end up doing that work.
[14:38:03] <archivist> if having boards made its trivial for the pcb maker
[14:39:21] <FinboySlick> archivist: No pcb involved, just an adapter faceplate.
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[14:40:10] <Rab> FinboySlick, there is a drilling diagram on the last page of the datasheet linked from the Digi-Key product page.
[14:47:48] <FinboySlick> Rab: Duh. Thanks! :)
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[14:58:55] <FinboySlick> Damn, it's too wide.
[14:59:49] <Rab> Too wide for the faceplate?
[15:00:30] <FinboySlick> Rab: Yeah. The faceplate is on the 'internal' part of the case, there's a steel cover with an opening exposing that faceplate which isn't wide enough. I have a plan B though so it's no biggie.
[15:00:52] <FinboySlick> It'll probably be cheaper anyway.
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[15:12:19] <Bushman> hey guys.
[15:16:19] <Bushman> any ideas how to make a 1:72 scale model of something like this:
http://img23.staticclassifieds.com/images_tablicapl/195777069_3_644x461_zarowka-lampa-rteciowo-zarowa-250w-e40-pn-poznan-oswietlenie.jpg
[15:17:15] <Bushman> i want to make working models of lamp posts with this type of lamp shades but i have no idea how to make the lamp shades.
[15:18:22] <_methods> lampcnc?
[15:19:22] <Bushman> heh
[15:19:39] <Bushman> i will be CNC cutting the lamp posts.
[15:20:12] <Bushman> you might be wondering why i ask here. i'm sure there are people who manufacture stuff and can have ideas to share
[15:20:56] <cpresser> looks like a lathe job
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[15:21:34] <cpresser> or deep-drawing, if you want to make more
[15:21:35] <SpeedEvil> That looks spun
[15:21:47] <SpeedEvil> In two parts.
[15:21:50] <_methods> deep drawn stamping
[15:21:59] <SpeedEvil> Or that
[15:22:13] <SpeedEvil> Either may work
[15:22:35] <SpeedEvil> deep drawing I suspect will be a lot more annoying tool-wise
[15:22:40] <_methods> at 1:72 i'd just make it on the lathe
[15:22:44] <_methods> out of round
[15:22:51] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[15:23:00] <SpeedEvil> Do you want the lamp to work?
[15:23:18] <SpeedEvil> I would turn it out of clear plastic, and then paint it green
[15:23:25] <_methods> 15:17 < Bushman> i want to make working models of lamp posts with this type of lamp shades but i have no idea how to make the lamp shades.
[15:23:48] <SpeedEvil> I missed 'working'
[15:24:12] <SpeedEvil> don't see anything I know the size of.
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[15:24:18] <SpeedEvil> What is the diameter - 60cm>
[15:24:20] <SpeedEvil> ?
[15:27:36] <Rab> Y'all would turn it? Out of what, 15" dia bar stock?
[15:28:09] <archivist> Bushman, make a press tool
[15:28:34] <Rab> Oh, 1:72 scale. -_-
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[15:29:09] <archivist> Bushman, I make the odd bit of tooling for my tinware
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=tinware
[15:29:50] <archivist> some cheating with the edge bead :)
[15:30:27] <furrywolf> does it need to be metal? vacuum form or press hot plastic.
[15:30:29] <archivist> tin bath has copper wire soldered to the rim to appear rolled
[15:31:00] <archivist> I use biscuit tin metal
[15:31:07] <Rab> Or cast from resin.
[15:31:20] <furrywolf> 1:72 is really tiny...
[15:31:52] <Rab> Yeah, if that shade is 15" dia then the model would be 0.2".
[15:31:58] <furrywolf> by my math, if that's an 18" shade, it'd be 1/4".
[15:32:41] <SpeedEvil> I would take
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HLMP-6400/516-1402-ND/637663, bend the leads over to nearly touch, and place in the bottom of a little appropriately shaped cup, onto which polyester casting resin is placed.
[15:33:14] <SpeedEvil> then I would paint the outsides green
[15:33:27] <furrywolf> at that scale the LED will take up most of the shade...
[15:33:37] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: yes.
[15:33:44] <SpeedEvil> But you don't care, because it's inside the shade
[15:34:16] <SpeedEvil> The dimensions seem to work - the body of the LED is a square 2.2mm in edge
[15:34:40] <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly, they don't seem to make this in white.
[15:34:50] <SpeedEvil> Another possibly easier way is a fibre-optic solution
[15:35:08] <SpeedEvil> Which means it's a simple casting procedure.
[15:35:30] <furrywolf> I'd just use generic white 3mm round leds.
[15:35:57] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: they'd stick out the end, and be out of scale
[15:36:00] <Rab> Use a larger LED and turn it down to the desired shape. ^_^
[15:36:28] * furrywolf likes building big things not tiny things
[15:36:35] <FinboySlick> Turning LEDs. That's a first for me.
[15:36:40] <Rab> (Lead spacing unlikely to cooperate)
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[15:37:08] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: the stock lamps inside those shades quite often stuck out the bottom of the shade. a glass jar explosion-proof style is standard...
[15:37:10] <archivist> I turned some to concentrate the light
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[15:38:23] <SpeedEvil> If you could be bothered, you could eaisly fit a SMD LED in there with the appropriate enamelled wire wires
[15:38:48] <archivist> tried a cone shape to try and get a small point, got a ring instead, phail
[15:38:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-strands-optical-fiber-plastic-optic-febre-clear-end-glow-cable-0-75mmx2m-line-/321729665401?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae8951979
[15:39:37] <SpeedEvil> you'd want I suspect narrower fibre to cope with the bend radius
[15:39:51] <furrywolf> http://www.blog.barnlightelectric.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Appleton-Explosion-Proof-RLM-Vintage-White.jpg a 3mm led is actually a pretty good match for the stock look of some of those shades
[15:40:23] <SpeedEvil> yeah - if you deviate from the pictured one a bit, it's not too hard
[15:40:25] <Bushman> archivist: these are nice tins. you pressed them?
[15:40:37] <furrywolf> http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l800/pict/171343464229_1.jpg
[15:40:49] <archivist> Bushman, the watering can lid is pressed
[15:41:06] <Bushman> i see
[15:41:48] <archivist> ball bearing for the female, and the male and clamp were turned to fit a press
[15:43:22] <Bushman> yea, but this thing has much more detail.
[15:44:26] <Bushman> i have no previous experience. i turned the rough shape of the lamp shade on the lathe and try pressing it agains wood but it only punches through and rips the rest
[15:44:41] <archivist> more than one part needed, or multi stage pressing with annealing in between
[15:44:48] <Bushman> in other words, this:
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/234/739/fa5.jpg
[15:45:13] <furrywolf> I'd say turn them, or mold them in plastic around a 3mm led.
[15:45:43] <Bushman> furrywolf: don't worry about LEDs
[15:45:58] <Bushman> i plan on using super small SMD stuff
[15:46:21] <Bushman> and brass pipe/tube 0.9mm/0.5mm
[15:46:41] <furrywolf> a 3mm led is actually a pretty good scale match for one with a globe, explosion-proof housing, or metal halide lamp.
[15:46:58] <archivist> you could also learn the technique they were originally made by, metal spinning
[15:47:44] <furrywolf> archivist: the entire part is 1/4" diameter at the widest point, and maybe 3/16" tall. spinning under a microscope. :P
[15:47:46] <archivist> watch a few metal spinning videos on youtube
[15:47:52] <Bushman> i don't need the explosion proof look
[15:48:04] <Bushman> i need the shade.
[15:48:37] <Bushman> archivist: but how would i mount such small diameter for spinning? :P
[15:48:38] <archivist> furrywolf,
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_09_07_Lorch_lathe/IMG_1822.JPG under a microscope :)
[15:49:00] <furrywolf> Bushman: very carefully
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[15:49:18] <archivist> identical to the larger size but smaller....somewhat
[15:49:20] <furrywolf> unless you need realistic wall thickness, just turn them.
[15:49:42] <furrywolf> and if you do need realistic wall thickness, stamping them from tin foil should be easy to do by hand. :P
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[15:58:02] <SpeedEvil> making a simple tool to cut wax in the right shape, then moulding a hundred out of resin seems the easy way to me
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[15:59:49] <furrywolf> bbl, time for work
[16:01:51] <archivist> Bushman,
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_10_11_Smart_Brown_Press_repaired/IMG_1672.JPG
[16:02:15] <archivist> shows the tool in the press
[16:02:38] <archivist> and one lid as pressed before cutting out
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[16:16:15] <ssi> https://www.edx.org/course/autonomous-navigation-flying-robots-tumx-autonavx-0
[16:16:20] <ssi> that could be fun
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[16:47:51] <R2E4> Anyone have a 7i77 fopr sale?
[16:48:37] <R2E4> PCW you there?
[16:48:45] <Jymmm> R2E4: pcw_home might have a couple
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[17:04:17] <Loetmichel> *phew* i am getting old... just brought my car to the panel beater... and walked the three miles home... *sweat* *fighting for air*
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[17:12:38] <Jymmm> panel beater?
[17:13:25] <archivist> accident repair shop
[17:13:29] <CaptHindsight> body shop
[17:13:33] <Jymmm> ah
[17:13:35] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: fender-unbender.
[17:13:43] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the guy who can make dents disappear
[17:13:54] <Jymmm> lol
[17:14:07] <CaptHindsight> bondo magicians
[17:14:15] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15642&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[17:14:18] <Loetmichel> these dents
[17:14:26] <Loetmichel> and paint it over
[17:14:51] <archivist> a mere scratch
[17:15:06] <CaptHindsight> side swipen
[17:15:08] <Loetmichel> unfortunaltelyx it had bend the sips
[17:15:38] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: The cops wanted to drive you off the road and you had somewhere to go?
[17:15:40] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: When you were walking home, did you remember to turn off the parking brake ?
[17:15:51] <CaptHindsight> the mirror might cost more than the repair to the door
[17:16:00] <Loetmichel> "Side Impact Protection System", i.e the steel bars inside the door
[17:16:37] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: the guy in the pic tried to leave his driveway backwards
[17:16:48] <Loetmichel> ... and my cat stood on the other side of the street
[17:16:59] <Loetmichel> eh had hit the door dead center ;)
[17:17:25] <FinboySlick> Wait, the guy bumped into your cat and it did that to your door? It must have been a very angry cat.
[17:18:39] <Loetmichel> CAR
[17:18:51] <FinboySlick> I know, but I like my version of the story better.
[17:19:03] <Jymmm> ^^^
[17:19:08] <Loetmichel> meh
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[17:24:20] <Computer_barf> is there a webpage I can go to to see a log of this chat?
[17:24:34] <archivist> a number of them
[17:25:10] <archivist> http://emclog.archivist.info/
[17:25:27] <archivist> is the one with fugly colours :)
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[17:26:37] <Computer_barf> lol
[17:26:51] <Computer_barf> well looks like no one responded to my question
[17:27:04] <Computer_barf> but thanks I'll make a link to it
[17:27:20] <Computer_barf> 24 hour log would be useful even if fugly
[17:27:50] <archivist> its the data behind stuff like
[17:28:00] <archivist> !seen Computer_barf
[17:28:00] <the_wench> last seen in #linuxcnc 2015-05-05 18:27:20GMT 00:00:40 ago, saying 24 hour log would be useful even if fugly
[17:28:31] <Computer_barf> might as well reissue my question
[17:29:02] <Computer_barf> I created this line by combining two diffrent sources, so i don't know if I have it right, linuxcnc boots with it in the hal though
[17:29:06] <Computer_barf> net estop-loop hm2_7i76e.0.7i76.0.0.input-03 iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[17:30:03] <Computer_barf> hm2_7i76e.0.7i76.0.0.input-03 would be the info for where the pin is on the 7i76e, just replaced the parport stuff they had in that spot.. seems like it would work.
[17:31:00] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: worse than my typos is that the guy with the hair problem in that photo has given me a wrong phone number... and nobody at the neighbors houses know him
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[17:31:11] <Loetmichel> so i am out 300-400 eur for the repairs...
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[17:32:15] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: That is indeed worse than an angry cat. What was he doing there? Just turning his car around?
[17:32:57] <Loetmichel> getting backwars otu of the driveway
[17:33:01] <Loetmichel> like i said.
[17:33:17] <Loetmichel> amd my car was standing on the opposite side of the street on the curb
[17:33:37] <Loetmichel> he said he thought the street was a bit wider
[17:37:04] <CaptHindsight> are dogs any better at directing traffic or guiding vehicles?
[17:37:42] <Computer_barf> not my dogs
[17:40:08] * cpresser finished wiring the 7i77: http://imgur.com/nj3iZeS,L6K3Ahi#0
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[17:41:13] <cpresser> welding the broken robot parts is also taken care of.. i might be able to do the final setup on the weekend. yay \o/
[17:42:34] <Computer_barf> cpresser: i have a 7i76e, currently trying to set up estop, I've set the pin in the hal, what did you use for the other pin? is there a particular ground on the board that you used?
[17:43:55] <cpresser> Computer_barf: do you see that one relay? thats used for estop.
[17:44:22] <Jymmm> cpresser: WTF?! You actually LABELD connections and even used spiralwrap... you sick puppy!
[17:44:22] <cpresser> the 7i77-estop-out is wired in series with the switch to power the relais.
[17:45:16] <cpresser> the 7i77-estop-in is connected on the switch-side of the relay. to feed the actual status back to linuxcnc
[17:46:04] <cpresser> Jymmm: only for the picture.. ill remove them later :P
[17:46:18] <Jymmm> cpresser: Ah, ok. I was gonna say...
[17:47:29] <Computer_barf> humm don't really see the relay but just trying to understand how i might wire mine up in a simple manner for now. I've been looking at the schematics involving relays
[17:48:14] <Jymmm> I have a problem with your estop-out for some odd reason, but I couldn't tell you why or even justify my reluctance. Something just seems "off".
[17:48:42] <cpresser> Computer_barf: the relay sits on the din-rail, on the right side.
[17:48:52] <Tom_itx> Computer_barf, try zlog
[17:48:59] <Computer_barf> im just trying to understand how to wire estop-in on my board
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[17:49:11] <Computer_barf> zlog? a person here?
[17:49:12] <zlog> Computer_barf: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2015-05-05.html
[17:49:17] <Tom_itx> see
[17:49:24] <Computer_barf> oh yeah , i resolved that
[17:49:34] <Computer_barf> well , someone else resolved it for me
[17:49:37] <cpresser> the connection scheme is: 'GND -> Relay- ... Relay+ -> E-Stop-Sw-1 ... E-stop-Sw-2 -> 7i77-Estop-Out
[17:50:24] <Computer_barf> ok nevermind that im talking about estop, just imagine im talking about a button input
[17:50:24] <Jymmm> cpresser: what happends when estop is disengaged?
[17:50:27] <cpresser> when the switch is closed, and the 7i77-pin is switched on, the relais coil gets power
[17:50:31] <Computer_barf> i know how to set the pin for the input
[17:50:43] <cpresser> Jymmm: then you cant start the machine.
[17:50:49] <Computer_barf> but im trying to figure out where on my 7i76e I am hooking the other pin on my button
[17:50:57] <Computer_barf> i presume a ground
[17:51:12] <Computer_barf> im just not sure where i should seek that ground
[17:51:22] <Jymmm> cpresser: YOu push the BRB, then reset the BRB, what happens?
[17:52:02] <cpresser> Jymmm: then you are still in e-stop, you will need to push the estop-button in the axis-gui again. just to be sure
[17:52:25] <cpresser> Jymmm: that logic is wired in HAL (estop_latch component)
[17:52:50] <Jymmm> cpresser: and if the computer SNAFU's?
[17:52:52] <cpresser> Computer_barf: For an 7i76 input/output, those signals are referenced to FieldGround
[17:53:17] <Computer_barf> thanks! ill seek out fieldground in the manuel
[17:53:24] <cpresser> Jymmm: when you will have to press the button in hardware for estop
[17:53:41] <Jymmm> ?
[17:54:12] <cpresser> Jymmm: most likely i didnt get your last question right, please rephrase it, then ill rephrase my answer :)
[17:54:42] * Tom_itx puts all the words in a blender
[17:54:42] <Jymmm> cpresser: If the computer fucks up, then what?
[17:55:10] <zeeshan|2> Success!
[17:55:13] <Jymmm> lol
[17:55:23] <cpresser> Jymmm: Then i have to press the estop manually. cant help it if the computer does weird stuff
[17:56:10] <cpresser> Jymmm: the end-stops also trip that relais :)
[17:56:20] <Jymmm> cpresser: Are you using a safety relay that I just haven't noticed for your estop chain?
[17:56:24] * Tom_itx wires Jymmm's ESTOP to the plant mains
[17:56:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Hey, we could that... SHUTN ESTOP... it's a real thing.
[17:56:46] <cpresser> Jymmm: its sold a "ESTOP-Relay", so i guess its suited
[17:57:57] <Tom_itx> Jymmm does that require 2 keys spaced 20' apart to open the estop lock and a secret handshake?
[17:58:16] <cpresser> this relay kills all power to the amps as soon as: 1. hit the button 2. end-stop is reached 3. linuxcnc signals estop
[17:58:48] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: my old Mill had an estop...
[17:58:50] <Jymmm> cpresser: But do the relay get energized once you reset the BRB?
[17:58:52] <Loetmichel> but not connected
[17:59:08] <Jymmm> relays*
[17:59:19] <Loetmichel> ... machine kept dropping out when more than 2 steppers moved at the same time
[17:59:33] <cpresser> Jymmm: well, if the software failed, then it might get powered again.
[17:59:40] <Loetmichel> to send ttl signals thrui the same cable as the motor wires wasnt my brightest idea ;-)
[17:59:57] <Tom_itx> heh probably not
[18:00:08] <Jymmm> cpresser: Ok, that's what I was asking.
[18:00:19] <cpresser> Jymmm: sorry, didnt get you point earlier.
[18:00:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: No mention of secret handshake, maybe request that feature?
http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Electrical/ProductsandServices/ElectricalDistribution/SwitchesandDisconnects/SafetySwitches/ShuntTrip/index.htm?cx=5&wtredirect=www.eaton.com/shunttrip
[18:00:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- if you know what i mean ;-)
[18:01:09] <cpresser> Jymmm: i dont think that this is a real issue. the operater should only reset the button when he is sure everything is still working
[18:03:20] <zeeshan|2> Computer_barf:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0
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[18:03:21] <zeeshan|2> might help
[18:03:26] <zeeshan|2> thats how i did my e-stop
[18:06:09] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx:
http://i.imgur.com/YwKeu8s.jpg
[18:06:17] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/PRvwQQx.jpg
[18:07:29] <Rab> zeeshan|2, you milled out those plates?
[18:07:32] <Loetmichel> zeeshan|2: which cars carburetor is that?
[18:07:47] zeeshan|2 is now known as zeeshan
[18:08:30] <zeeshan> rab yes
[18:08:58] <Rab> zeeshan, are they beveled at the edge to seat properly?
[18:09:03] <zeeshan> Loetmichel: not a carb, its throttle body from fd rx7
[18:09:08] <zeeshan> rab yes, that was the hard part
[18:09:26] <zeeshan> its a very tiny taper
[18:09:35] <zeeshan> like 10 deg, had to use a tapered end mill
[18:09:57] <zeeshan> rab if you look @ the second pic, youll notice more gap on the tap
[18:09:59] <zeeshan> vs bottom
[18:10:07] <zeeshan> thats because of the taper. they face different directions
[18:10:09] <Rab> Would it make more sense to fixture brass plate stock at the desired angle, and use a standard end mill?
[18:10:14] <zeeshan> no
[18:10:26] <Rab> Yeah, that's what it looked like.
[18:10:29] <zeeshan> cause its chamefered round
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[18:10:36] <zeeshan> and the chamfer is in opposite directions
[18:10:49] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/CDvya2u.png
[18:11:29] <Rab> Sounds reasonable.
[18:11:54] <Rab> So why milled on top, instead of using plate stock?
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[18:12:32] <zeeshan> cause the thickness is non standard
[18:12:35] <zeeshan> .082"
[18:12:53] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/13cvcSK.png
[18:12:56] <zeeshan> final tool path
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[18:13:15] <Rab> I see. Looks like good precision work. Are you satisfied with the fit?
[18:13:39] <zeeshan> rab i did the water test, it seems to hold it fine, ocassional drop
[18:13:50] <zeeshan> the real test is when he puts it on his car
[18:13:54] <Rab> aye
[18:14:03] <zeeshan> he'll definitely need to adjust his idle tuning
[18:14:10] <zeeshan> cause the factory gap was larger
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[18:28:38] <Computer_barf> PCW: i know this is probably a dumb question but is pin 8 on TB1 on the 7i76e considered "field ground"?
[18:30:07] <Computer_barf> pcw_home: ^
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[18:32:37] <zeeshan> man where the hell do you buy dry moly lubricant in canada!
[18:34:01] <Computer_barf> well first you climb up into the mountains
[18:34:42] <Computer_barf> then you find an outcropping of Molybdenum
[18:34:47] <zeeshan> lol
[18:35:13] <Computer_barf> then you grind it up with your bare hands
[18:35:50] <Computer_barf> Oh Canada. Fuck yeah.
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[18:41:09] <R2E4> pcw_home: Would yu happen to have a 7i77 for sale?
[18:41:13] <R2E4> Dont know why it keeps knocking me off irc.
[18:43:11] <zeeshan> try the website? :p
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[18:50:13] <andypugh> The web site shows out of stock
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[19:06:50] <Computer_barf> get a 7i76e instead and help me figure it out :p
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[19:21:50] <Jymmm> lol @ Computer_barf
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[19:22:48] <Jymmm> Is silicone tubing a "Bad Idea" for gasoline (petro)
[19:23:49] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, go to mcmaster carr web site and go to the tubing selector
[19:24:02] <Jymmm> cool, thanks
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[19:26:23] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: perfect, tyvm
[19:27:11] <JT-Shop> np
[19:27:40] * JT-Shop managed to change the rear brakes on the van with no blood loss...
[19:28:23] <Jymmm> thats always a good thing, but why would there be any vlood loss ?
[19:28:25] <Jymmm> blood*
[19:29:22] <SpeedEvil> He was going at 47MPH during.
[19:29:40] <Jymmm> impressive
[19:31:09] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQm5BnhTBEQ - related
[19:31:11] <JT-Shop> I leak easy
[19:31:28] <_methods> better to bleed a little bit every day than a lot all at once
[19:32:19] <SpeedEvil> (I have serious questions if those people are doing that of their own free choice)
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[19:46:34] <zeeshan> FOund dry moly lube
[19:46:37] <zeeshan> wow what a pain in thwe ass
[19:46:41] <zeeshan> everyone has graphite, but not moly
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[19:50:45] <Crom> man that's hard on tires
[19:52:05] <Crom> heh they didn't swap tires just took them off and put them back on
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[19:55:39] <XXCoder> why?
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[20:00:42] <SpeedEvil> Because if you're stupidly rich, and don't really care about what happens to your servants, it's fun.
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[20:04:00] <Computer_barf> is field ground typically the ground located in the field power section?
[20:04:28] <Computer_barf> like as in the ground that i plugged in from the power supply
[20:04:41] <Computer_barf> god i feel so electrically illiterate
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[20:17:15] <ve7it> cradek, ding dong.... anyone home?
[20:18:41] <zeeshan> Computer_barf:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/abmmue9j5bwostk/Master%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf?dl=0
[20:18:48] <zeeshan> follow the the blue line
[20:18:54] <zeeshan> i bet its the same thing in 7i76e.
[20:19:31] <zeeshan> pin #8 on tb1
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[20:47:21] <Tom_itx> zeeshan looks good
[20:47:49] <Tom_itx> i assume they're flat
[20:51:47] <zeeshan> yessir
[20:52:02] <zeeshan> within a thou
[20:52:03] <zeeshan> good enough
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[20:54:45] * SpeedEvil realises thou and thou are spelled the same.
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[20:55:20] <Deejay> gn8
[20:56:22] <zeeshan> =]
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[21:21:53] <andypugh> Bah! So far on this (tiny) job I hae wrecked all my LPKT inserts, 2 x 6mm carbide end mills and mt T-slot cutter.
[21:22:06] <andypugh> I think this steel is just too hard for me to mill.
[21:22:31] <MrFluffy> hello all, oblique linuxcnc question, what sort of holding torque should I be trying to achieve for a trunnion table pivot brake setup? any guestimates? Ive never seen one in person let alone been able to measure one. Brake options are down to car aircon compressor clutch, minimoto brake with 20kg actuator providing the clamping force, or make a bronze/steel friction unit from scratch.
[21:23:38] <zeeshan> lol andypugh
[21:23:40] <zeeshan> what are you machining
[21:24:28] <LeelooMinai> Titanium parts for a Blackbird
[21:25:02] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: need more info :P
[21:25:05] <zeeshan> what are you planning to machine
[21:25:23] <andypugh> I was trying to convert a 25x25 insert holder into something that would fit directly to my QCTP
[21:25:23] <MrFluffy> whatever I can jam on the machine when it comes down to it
[21:25:39] <zeeshan> then id just base it on the hardest material you'll ever machine
[21:25:41] <zeeshan> inconel :D
[21:25:43] <MrFluffy> can you not grind the shank down a bit andy?
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[21:25:56] <andypugh> My QCTP can handle 16x16 tools
[21:26:18] <zeeshan> andypugh: hmm ive machined them down before
[21:26:22] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Doing that wouldn’t leave the mounting threads for the cassette
[21:26:28] <zeeshan> 3/4" to 5/8" (16mm)
[21:26:49] <_methods> i normally try to saw out tool holder as much as possible then machine it
[21:26:54] <andypugh> I thought that it would be neat to have it mount directly and not waste a tool holder.
[21:27:06] <zeeshan> _methods if he's breaking inserts
[21:27:10] <zeeshan> im pretty sure he's not going to be sawing it :P
[21:27:14] <MrFluffy> I am going to do some multifix holders like that one day
[21:27:14] <andypugh> But it’s pretty hard material it seems.
[21:27:44] <andypugh> I was probably misled by how it machined sort-of OK with the carbide insert mill.
[21:27:51] <_methods> usually they're just case hardened
[21:27:59] <_methods> once you get below it you can machine it fine
[21:28:05] <andypugh> But the HSS T-slot cutter was ruined almost immediately.
[21:28:14] <zeeshan> haha
[21:28:19] <zeeshan> need carbide man! :P
[21:28:23] <andypugh> This one seems to get harder the closer to the front I get.
[21:28:25] <_methods> yeah you'll need to have your feeds and speeds perfect
[21:28:32] <_methods> or it will work harden with hss
[21:28:50] <zeeshan> those things have a hardeness of like 52 HRc
[21:28:53] <zeeshan> hss struggles there
[21:28:58] <MrFluffy> iconels a sod for that, I have painful memories of cutting sets of flanges out for a turbo header on the mill...
[21:29:07] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: lol
[21:29:11] <_methods> yeah inconel is fun for sure
[21:29:18] <andypugh> I have decided it’s a failure anyway, the V-grooves are not consistent depth (or something).
[21:29:30] <MrFluffy> I was trying to baby it and it just worked hardened and sat there laughing at me
[21:29:52] <zeeshan> cbn inserts
[21:29:56] <zeeshan> seXy
[21:30:03] <andypugh> So I will start again from scratch making a QCTP from mild steel with the mounting for the grooving cassette
[21:31:34] <andypugh> But I need to wait for the replacement tooling to appear.
[21:32:57] <MrFluffy> I meant cant you just grind the shank down on the insert holder before, so it fits your holders
[21:33:10] * MrFluffy is lazy and always looks for the easiest way out
[21:35:22] <MrFluffy> so what info would I need to find what are reasonable amounts for brake holding torque for a 4th axis, with or without table?
[21:35:42] <zeeshan> cutting forces
[21:35:43] <MrFluffy> I can frig the test bits up and test them with a torque wrench if I have numbers to shoot for
[21:36:05] <zeeshan> like for example
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[21:36:23] <MrFluffy> so max capability of the mill, at maximum periphery of the trunnion table
[21:36:26] <zeeshan> lets say youre machining a 12" diameter thing, and youre drilling a bolt circle (11" diameter)
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[21:36:35] <zeeshan> and youre just simply drilling straight down
[21:36:49] <zeeshan> the cutting force might be like 200lb
[21:37:13] <zeeshan> but that'll cause the trunion table to rotate with a torque of 200*(11/2)
[21:37:22] <zeeshan> 1100ft-lb
[21:38:13] <zeeshan> i would think drilling holes would be the worst case scenario
[21:38:27] <zeeshan> cause it'd have the largest force which contributes in torquing the table
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[21:38:34] <zeeshan> table = trunion table
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[21:41:08] <andypugh> MrFluffy: No, because I don’t have a suitable grinder, and the holder is a bit unusual. One of these:
https://eshop.phorn.de/ishop/Drehen/Axial-Einstechdrehen/System-224/Grundhalter-Typ-220/Grundhalter-R2202525K1/article/node/19296_25553_10089_10019_10005.html
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[21:42:12] <MrFluffy> hmm a motorcycle brake can generate 2500n of force at the caliper mount... so 1100 is 1500N m, but that would mean the caliper would be on a disc a metre wide... ok i get the figures Ill go find some data to plug in
[21:42:25] <andypugh> Though they do appear to make a R220.1616 so in theory I could modify mine in a different way. Just not by grinding.
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[21:42:31] <MrFluffy> no it wouldnt, that 2500n is at the disc diameter
[21:42:40] <Computer_barf> meh i can't figure out how to trigger pins. My mill can move but I can't figure out how to configure an input to add a limit switch or probe or something. I run pncconf and try to copy over the changes but for some reason im not getting any signals
[21:42:55] <MrFluffy> so a bike disc could do double the holding torque needed
[21:43:23] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: easily :D
[21:43:26] <MrFluffy> but mini moto disc is half the diameter of the 300mm discs I have the data for... ok, fag packet doodle time
[21:43:31] <zeeshan> 4 piston calipers with a large surface area
[21:43:34] <zeeshan> have a huge amount of stopping power
[21:43:57] <andypugh> You don’t need the dynamic finesse of a motorcycle brake.
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[21:44:07] <MrFluffy> yeah but these calipers have tiny surface area, theyre only for stopping a pocket bike with 80kg of rider
[21:44:12] <zeeshan> o
[21:44:24] <MrFluffy> but does surface area matter in this case?
[21:44:28] <andypugh> Mike brakes are sized largely for heat dissipation.
[21:44:30] <zeeshan> it will
[21:44:55] <MrFluffy> its not got to disappate a lot of energy for static holding force, so pad area isnt a factor I think
[21:44:58] <andypugh> But also bike brakes are not zero-backlash as they only need to work in one direction.
[21:45:16] <MrFluffy> poo, I hadnt thought of that...
[21:45:28] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: i take that back
[21:45:38] <zeeshan> force of friction is mu * normal force
[21:45:44] <zeeshan> =D
[21:45:59] <MrFluffy> yeah that threw me during a discussion of 6 vs 4 pot calipers...
[21:46:12] <andypugh> Computer_barf: Mesa card?
[21:46:20] <zeeshan> classifical friction says that
[21:46:34] <zeeshan> only 0.01% of the real area of contact is actually making contact
[21:46:47] <zeeshan> that breaks down at super high forces though
[21:46:56] <zeeshan> (not the case here)
[21:47:09] <Computer_barf> andypugh: yes 7i76e
[21:47:19] <MrFluffy> so id have to make a caliper too with the pads attached the pistons to eliminate backlash.
[21:47:24] <Computer_barf> does halmeter show live results?
[21:47:28] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: surface area is important i guess cause of releasing heat
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[21:47:36] <Computer_barf> like if I click on and off a microswitch it would read live?
[21:47:56] <andypugh> Well, yes, and no. It depends.
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[21:48:11] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: are you trying to use a brake because its easier?
[21:48:17] <andypugh> Is the pin that the switch is connected to an imput? What is the other side of the microswitch connected to?
[21:48:21] <zeeshan> like why not something like a bevel geasr
[21:48:28] <MrFluffy> Im trying to use a brake because I have the parts to make it right now
[21:48:29] <zeeshan> i mean a worm gear
[21:48:41] <zeeshan> ah
[21:48:41] <andypugh> worm gears rattle too.
[21:48:43] <MrFluffy> worm gears have their own backlash issues
[21:48:49] <zeeshan> you can eliminate it though
[21:48:56] <andypugh> Harmonic drive from eBay is what you want.
[21:49:00] <zeeshan> i like them cause you can drive the input
[21:49:02] <zeeshan> but not drive the output
[21:49:12] <Computer_barf> andypugh: i have one pin connected to the field io ground , and the other pin connected to the input
[21:49:13] <andypugh> zeeshan: That depends
[21:49:24] <MrFluffy> yeah but the bank of wifes good nature is pretty depleted for a 250euro harmonic drive
[21:49:38] <MrFluffy> we are into the what we can rustle up in the junk pile zone
[21:49:38] <andypugh> Computer_barf: And you are watching the input pin with a halmeter?
[21:49:56] <SpeedEvil> You're no longer living in harmony?
[21:49:57] <malcom2073> MrFluffy: Harmonic drives come up on ebay for sub $200 USD occasionally
[21:50:20] <MrFluffy> Ive had to make THAT promise, where I wont spend on things for a bit
[21:50:26] <MrFluffy> except for materials..
[21:50:36] <malcom2073> heh materials
[21:50:39] <malcom2073> That's so vauge! :-P
[21:50:52] <MrFluffy> harmony is mostly the wording...
[21:51:39] <Computer_barf> andypugh: not at the moment , ive done a number of diffrent tests like that with no success though
[21:52:07] <zeeshan> Computer_barf: are you trolling us
[21:52:38] <andypugh> Is the pin in question 1) Not claimed by a module, 2) not set to output ?
[21:52:42] <MrFluffy> arent you using a mesa card rather than a parport to watch?
[21:53:35] <andypugh> Are you sure that you are looking at the right pin on the right connector?
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[21:54:05] <zeeshan> i dont think your wiring is right
[21:54:09] <zeeshan> unless im reading what you wrote wrong
[21:54:17] <andypugh> Is the hm2_read function running?
[21:54:29] <zeeshan> you should have 24vdc going to one leg of t h e switch
[21:54:34] <zeeshan> and the other leg should be connected to your input pin
[21:54:47] <zeeshan> not input pin -> switch -> ground
[21:54:53] <andypugh> zeeshan: Hang on....
[21:55:54] <andypugh> Sorry, carry on. I was just getting worried in case he was working on unprotected FPGA pins, but this is 7i76e isn’t it?
[21:57:11] <Computer_barf> yes
[21:57:25] <Computer_barf> zeeshan: i am not trolling
[21:57:40] <zeeshan> maybe im confusing you with someone else
[21:58:03] <Computer_barf> sorry i just ran pncconf and transphering settings over again to test halmeter again
[21:58:06] <zeeshan> http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7i76eman.pdf
[21:58:09] <zeeshan> page 18
[21:58:15] <zeeshan> talks about wiring the input
[21:58:39] <andypugh> Computer_barf: 7i76 inputs are pulled low by 10k (page 17 above) and need to be > 60% of field power voltage to be sensed as on.
[21:58:52] <andypugh> Sorry, yes, page 18
[21:59:04] <zeeshan> Computer_barf: for you initial testing, dont use pncconf
[21:59:18] <zeeshan> use andypugh's startup script in halrun
[21:59:22] <Computer_barf> zeeshan: ive already got the steppers moving
[21:59:24] <zeeshan> and test directly from there
[21:59:27] <zeeshan> o
[21:59:38] <andypugh> Well, if you have a working system then keep it.
[21:59:45] <zeeshan> pnccnf can configure steppers? :D
[21:59:55] <Computer_barf> well ive yet to get anything else working
[22:00:04] <Computer_barf> one second let me try something
[22:00:06] <zeeshan> Computer_barf: step by step
[22:00:09] <zeeshan> help me
[22:00:12] <zeeshan> before you try stuff :P
[22:00:20] <zeeshan> can you tell me how you've got your limit switch wired up?
[22:00:39] <zeeshan> 24vdc -> switch -> input 7i76e?
[22:01:24] <andypugh> Rather than 24V DC, connect to the actual field power terminal
[22:01:59] <zeeshan> that terminal is kinda small :)
[22:02:36] <zeeshan> andypugh: help me come up with a clutch pedal for my rx7
[22:02:43] <zeeshan> its got a weird compound shape
[22:02:52] <andypugh> ? Pins 1234 are all Vfield
[22:02:53] <zeeshan> i can't figure out how to make it so i can machine it!
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[22:03:09] <andypugh> zeeshan: Make it flat then bend it?
[22:03:11] <zeeshan> andypugh: i have like 12 inputs using 24vdc
[22:03:19] <zeeshan> andypugh: hmm
[22:03:25] <Computer_barf> ok hold on
[22:03:36] <andypugh> I thought that Mazda supplied RX7s with clutch pedals
[22:03:42] <Computer_barf> zeechan: i have the ground on the field io hooked up to the switch
[22:03:43] <zeeshan> haha
[22:03:49] <zeeshan> for a rotary engine yea
[22:03:50] <Computer_barf> and the switch to the input
[22:03:57] <zeeshan> but for the v8, the clutch master hits the v8 head
[22:04:14] <zeeshan> Computer_barf: thats not correct
[22:04:17] <andypugh> You seem to have got rid of the best bit of the RX7 ?
[22:04:26] <zeeshan> andypugh: is that a joke?! :D
[22:04:42] <Computer_barf> zeeshan: ok so how should i be hooking it up?
[22:05:02] <zeeshan> Computer_barf: 24vdc (get it from wherever you can get it) to one leg of the switch
[22:05:05] <andypugh> Connect one of the field power terminals to the switch.
[22:05:07] <zeeshan> then the other leg of the switch to the input
[22:05:23] <zeeshan> and make sure you disconnect ground from 24vdc!
[22:06:03] <andypugh> zeeshan: You are assuming 24V field power.
[22:06:17] <zeeshan> andypugh: good point
[22:06:22] <andypugh> He might not be using that. Safer to get actual field power from TB1
[22:06:24] <zeeshan> 12v field power, whatever you have
[22:06:45] <zeeshan> okay ill be more cleared
[22:06:55] <zeeshan> the voltage supply that you're giving into Vfield at tb1
[22:07:03] <Computer_barf> i don't have any 24v
[22:07:03] <andypugh> TB1 has 4 terminals for field power, all commoned together. Only one is likely to be connected to the power supply.
[22:07:10] <Computer_barf> i have 48 v on the power supply
[22:07:16] <zeeshan> use that same voltage supply to go through a switch and then connect to a
[22:07:20] <zeeshan> wat
[22:07:30] <Computer_barf> and the 7i76e field power is 12 v from the itx
[22:07:34] <andypugh> I do hope that the 48V is not connected to Vfield ?
[22:07:36] <zeeshan> okay
[22:07:42] <zeeshan> connect that 12v to a switch
[22:07:47] <Computer_barf> no 48 v only to the steppers
[22:07:47] <zeeshan> then other end of switch to an input
[22:08:07] <Computer_barf> ok
[22:08:41] <andypugh> Computer_barf: Assuming that TB1 pin 1 is connected to your 12V, connect TP1 pin2 to the switch. Then the other side of the switch to the input.
[22:09:10] <zeeshan> that is assuming he's got the jumper set right
[22:09:16] <zeeshan> to short those terminals trogether at tb1
[22:09:22] <zeeshan> andypugh: mr assumption
[22:09:30] <Computer_barf> need to look at the manuel to interpret these tables
[22:10:29] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/IQKUn8J.jpg
[22:10:36] <zeeshan> so the pedal needs to go back 4"
[22:10:43] <zeeshan> and have that exact shape
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[22:11:21] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODQ1WDEwMjQ=/z/0bsAAOxyA7tSZDP1/$T2eC16dHJF4FFk2D,6GFBSZDP0JCgw~~48_35.JPG
[22:11:23] <zeeshan> right pedal
[22:11:29] <MrFluffy> 1800oz/inch stepper driving z axis quill, 13N-m in new money, pulley drive ratio which is 2:1, pitch of the Z axis ballscrew 5:1, so 130NM peak downward force, assuming no frictional losses and perfect stepper performance. table is 150mm, so assuming no overhang , its 75mm to centre, 130Nm * 0.075M= 10N-m or so. Thinking out loud.
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[22:12:15] <Computer_barf> ok i did something admittedly stupid
[22:12:16] <andypugh> zeeshan: No, TB1 Pin 1,2,3,4 are all Vfield. Vin is Pin 5 and that is the one the jumper connects
[22:12:39] <Computer_barf> rebooted my whole system for mistaking an input
[22:12:49] <MrFluffy> things are only stupid if you do the same thing twice in a row
[22:13:28] <SpeedEvil> Twice or more
[22:13:45] <Computer_barf> for what its worth this thing seems to have decent built in protections
[22:13:50] <MrFluffy> or you watch someone do stupid and try it yourself
[22:14:05] <zeeshan> The isolated field I/O on the 7I76E runs from a switching power supply that can be powered by field power or a separate supply (VIN) with ground common with field power. Normally the 7I76E will be powered with field power and an on card jumper, W1 allows VIN to be connected to field power. If you wish to use a single power supply for the 7I76Es field outputs and field logic power, W1 should be pla
[22:14:14] <zeeshan> ^ maybe we're talking about the same thing andypugh.
[22:14:37] <Computer_barf> i put the positive on the field io to the microswitch, and then the other pin on the microswitch to the input
[22:14:49] <zeeshan> i distanctly remember that pin5 on tb1 was vin
[22:14:57] <Computer_barf> this configuration has not caused everything to immediatly power off so
[22:14:59] <andypugh> Was there smoke? (“No” is a good sign)
[22:15:02] <zeeshan> and pins 4 3 2 1 were not connected to vin
[22:15:02] <Computer_barf> no
[22:15:06] <Computer_barf> no magic smoke
[22:15:13] <zeeshan> if w1 jumper wasnt shorted or something like that
[22:15:37] <andypugh> zeeshan: Yes, but 1234 are always common to each other and are field power.
[22:15:40] <MrFluffy> crap I just realized my donor table that hasnt arrived yet is only 15cm deep. how big is a warco vmc? small benchtop mill?
[22:15:42] <zeeshan> andypugh: ah
[22:15:54] <Computer_barf> is there a way how i can get the "address" idk ( what else to call it ) of a pin without relying on pncconf
[22:16:05] <andypugh> dmesg
[22:16:11] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: im confused about your units
[22:16:22] <zeeshan> 150NM <- youre calling this a force, but its a torque/moment
[22:16:37] <andypugh> And 15cm is a very shallow table.
[22:16:56] <andypugh> More of a small shelf really.
[22:17:05] <andypugh> About right for paperback books
[22:17:08] <MrFluffy> that is what has just occured to me
[22:17:49] <andypugh> I guarantee than any VMC is more than 6” deep.
[22:18:11] <andypugh> Even the miniscule FP1
[22:18:16] <MrFluffy> http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/40-vmc-turret-mill---vertical-milling-machine.html
[22:18:26] <zeeshan> Halp me design ';[
[22:18:42] <MrFluffy> Table size 660 x 152mm
[22:19:09] <Computer_barf> YES
[22:19:16] <Computer_barf> ok now its working
[22:19:49] <Computer_barf> the 12 v + to the microswitch, and then the microswitch's other pin to the input, and the world makes sense now
[22:20:10] <Computer_barf> hal meter responds to probe-in instantaniously true/false
[22:20:36] <Computer_barf> why did you guys think im trolling you
[22:20:50] <Computer_barf> who trolls over something so technical? lol
[22:21:00] <Computer_barf> well i guess it might not be as technical to you guys
[22:21:39] <Computer_barf> very statisfying pressing the microswitch and watching it change on the screen
[22:22:10] <Computer_barf> ppl tell me to rtfm but the problem im having with it is not rtfm but the interpretation of it.
[22:22:27] <MrFluffy> zeeshan: probably I am confused, I had taken the torque used to rotate the z axis ball screw and used it as a linear force value
[22:22:34] <andypugh> MrFluffy: I might have been getting the wrong end of the stick. I thought you were talking about a table to mount the mill on…
[22:22:59] <MrFluffy> andypugh: no I want to use the warco table as a trunnion table on my bridgeport
[22:23:09] <MrFluffy> but 15cm isnt very deep as you rightly pointed out
[22:23:10] <Computer_barf> my attempt at the manuel was making me think I needed to run ground from field io to the input.
[22:23:17] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: you can roughly estimate the force available by multiplying that torque number by the radius of the screw that it travels on
[22:23:31] <Computer_barf> but thanks andypugh: zeeshan:
[22:23:40] <zeeshan> Computer_barf: np, for outputs its the opposite
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[22:24:00] <zeeshan> output -> relay coil -> ground
[22:24:02] <Computer_barf> thats a nice future heads up.
[22:24:22] <andypugh> zeeshan: Have you considered just welding a 4” dog-leg into the existing pedal? (Try to keep it high, it’s annoying when the pedal shaft hits your toes)
[22:24:55] <zeeshan> andypugh: i had the clutch master hitting my leg before
[22:24:55] <zeeshan> lol
[22:25:00] <andypugh> zeeshan: Actually the screw radius doesn’t matter.
[22:25:08] <Computer_barf> zeeshan: i was looking at some of the z-stop schematics and it seems some of them use an input and and output and some sort of software loop... diagrams made my head spin.
[22:25:11] <zeeshan> lemme show you
[22:26:05] <zeeshan> http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11999.0;attach=16533;image
[22:26:07] <zeeshan> can you see this
[22:26:09] <MrFluffy> so 130NM peak torque x 0.05m gives me the force downward in N, ok thats even better
[22:26:33] <zeeshan> andypugh: i have no idea what he's got connected to the screw
[22:26:34] <zeeshan> :P
[22:26:36] <andypugh> All you need to consider is that you have one force going round a 1m circle (or a 1’ circle) and the screw moves one pitch. So the screw force is 2 * pi * T / pitch
[22:27:11] <andypugh> No, I can’t see that
[22:27:17] <zeeshan> andypugh: i was trying not to be too complicated
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[22:27:32] <zeeshan> cause real power screw formulas have all sorts of stuff in them
[22:27:34] <zeeshan> like friction
[22:28:01] <zeeshan> http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Cams_Springs/Power_Screws_1.html
[22:28:02] <zeeshan> that stuff
[22:28:05] <andypugh> zeeshan: Did you see that link to a Mini that they are squeezing a GT-4 engine in to?
[22:28:12] <zeeshan> no
[22:28:39] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hCPODjJO7s Quite well-made and pretty funny.
[22:28:54] <MrFluffy> 163N, we like simple, I was fishing for some empirical data back there to simplify things.
[22:29:17] <zeeshan> how much hp does the gt4 engine make?
[22:29:24] <andypugh> You can largely ignore the friction with ballscrews
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[22:29:32] <andypugh> zeeshan: 200hp
[22:29:41] <andypugh> 4WD.
[22:29:42] <zeeshan> fast :D
[22:29:55] <Computer_barf> normally closed is ideal for limit switches right?
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[22:30:05] <zeeshan> Computer_barf: yes
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[22:30:13] <zeeshan> so if you cut the wire to the switch
[22:30:14] <zeeshan> it'll open
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[22:30:51] <zeeshan> its hard to explain this clutch pedal stuff over the internet ;[
[22:30:54] <zeeshan> come over
[22:31:03] <MrFluffy> how are they doing 4wd in a mini? two engines or a drivetrain?
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[22:31:27] <andypugh> Complete Celica drivetrain. It’s a fairly extreme job.
[22:31:31] <malcom2073> topgear style
[22:31:31] <Computer_barf> k gonna search around in my bins for microwave microswitches
[22:31:34] <malcom2073> two drivers facing opposite ways
[22:31:52] <andypugh> No, they are making a genuinely good job of it.
[22:32:02] <MrFluffy> i would like to find a easy to intergrate 4wd drivetrain for rear engined vehicles...
[22:32:10] <MrFluffy> or mid engined more correctly
[22:32:11] <andypugh> Clever use of jigs and special tools.
[22:32:35] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: skyline gtr
[22:33:15] <zeeshan> i like the frame jig
[22:33:17] <zeeshan> this guy is using
[22:34:31] * zeeshan dislikes the square tubing :(
[22:34:41] <zeeshan> 1" square tubing doesn't belong on a car!
[22:35:46] <zeeshan> https://youtu.be/7v59dDxCk9w?t=714
[22:35:50] <zeeshan> what are those clamps called
[22:36:11] <zeeshan> cleco
[22:36:52] <andypugh> The 1” square is just to hold the remains of the car in place while he works.
[22:37:59] <MrFluffy> stop it going floppy while you saw stuff out :)
[22:38:27] <MrFluffy> my ford pop currently has a X brace welded in to keep the shell the right shape while Im not pulling my finger out and finishing it...
[22:38:38] <zeeshan> ah
[22:38:52] <zeeshan> i was looking are the square tube usage at the dash area
[22:38:55] <malcom2073> yeah 1" square is good for that. WE've used it to brace a unibody when cutting out large sections of floorboard
[22:39:52] <furrywolf> or you could just start with a subaru, and have 4x4 from the factory, and generally not suck.
[22:40:07] <andypugh> Yeah, but Minis are cool
[22:40:17] <andypugh> (And great fun to drive)
[22:40:19] <zeeshan> correction to furry's comment: a real awd system
[22:40:55] <furrywolf> for rear-engined 4x4, you can use a subaru drivetrain with the differential in the transaxle flipped over. there's a company that remachines the housings to do this. it's popular with vw synchro owners, who like their 4x4 vans, but realize every stock component is garbage.
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[22:40:59] <malcom2073> Time to design an adapter, and fight the temptation to 3d print it tonight rather than waiting for next weekend to machine it heh
[22:41:08] <andypugh> But if you are looking at Project Binky and saying “that’s not totally sensible” then you are very much missing the point.
[22:41:09] <malcom2073> Got one of them propane conversion kits for a generator
[22:41:23] <MrFluffy> I have a mid engined car with a un1 transaxle at the back, I looked at U drives and things but it all gets very very expensive very quickly to play with awd
[22:41:24] <furrywolf> zeeshan: my subaru has a lever on the floor, that when pulled, locks the rear and front driveshafts together. no center differential, viscous couplers, etc. 4x4.
[22:41:34] <zeeshan> furrywolf: fake awd
[22:41:53] <zeeshan> i thought all subies were symmetrical awd
[22:41:55] <zeeshan> not 4x54
[22:42:42] <furrywolf> you can get subaru transmissions with a wide variety of center options... I have the straight 4x4. you can also get a center differential, a viscous coupler, a center differential with a locking mechanism, a center differential with a computer-controlled cluch, and other things.
[22:42:47] <MrFluffy> I have a softspot for that v8 mini conversion with the princess transmission where they made the transaxle adapter plate flatter by dragging it round the yard with some concrete blocks after it warped during fabrication and somehow it came out true on a surface plate.
[22:43:26] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqzTsuPiTVA
[22:43:30] <zeeshan> lol at these awdf tests
[22:43:36] <zeeshan> acura sh is far from awd.
[22:43:40] <furrywolf> all depends on what you pull it out of, and which parts you want to swap around. :)
[22:43:56] <furrywolf> subaru transmissions, like many subaru parts, are a bit like legos.
[22:44:08] <zeeshan> actually itake that back
[22:44:30] <zeeshan> it was the jx35 that was getting owned
[22:44:48] <zeeshan> the mdx had no prob
[22:45:03] <furrywolf> MrFluffy: mid-engined is hard. any normal awd transaxle is going to have the output facing the rear of the vehicle. you can try using a v-drive pulled from a boat.
[22:45:40] <MrFluffy> Ill never live long enough to finish it in 2wd at this rate, so just wishful thinking
[22:45:41] <andypugh> zeeshan: Land-rover get the same effect by using the brakes on the spinning wheels. Works just as well.
[22:45:59] <zeeshan> andypugh: damn these fake awd!
[22:46:10] <zeeshan> real awd = lsd front, lsd rear
[22:46:14] <zeeshan> awd drift!
[22:46:25] <MrFluffy> you can drift a landrover, in snow :)
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[22:46:39] <zeeshan> a neutral drift is so much fun
[22:46:45] <zeeshan> no bs oversteer or understeer
[22:47:02] <zeeshan> just smash the throttle
[22:47:07] <furrywolf> there's a torsen front diff available for my subaru... if I have to crack the transaxle for anything else, I'll put one in. there's also a rear clutch-type LSD that's pretty easily obtainable.
[22:47:18] <Jymmm> The auto parts stores are selling fuel line that degrades and chunks off into the system within 3 months?!
[22:47:26] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRniF4JQN2U
[22:47:28] <zeeshan> moar t raction tests
[22:47:31] <furrywolf> Jymmm: unlikely
[22:47:31] <zeeshan> these ones are good
[22:47:48] <zeeshan> the crv's real time awd system gets owned
[22:47:50] <malcom2073> Jymmm: My local tinfoil hat guy has been preaching that about ethanol for the last year
[22:48:16] <zeeshan> go subaru!!!
[22:48:18] * zeeshan is biased
[22:48:19] <furrywolf> what I'd really like are air lockers, but no one makes one for a subaru. if I ever get a sufficiently advanced set of machine tools and operator skills, I might try making some mini-ARBs...
[22:48:29] <MrFluffy> mechanical awd, big v8 mid mounted and a hydraulic active suspension from a citroen activa, thatd be my dream car...
[22:48:43] <andypugh> I think it is fair to say that LandRover AWD works.
[22:48:48] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Oh, that might explain it, but still. Even the store manager knew their fuel line degrades and was like "oh well" WTF
[22:49:02] <malcom2073> Huh, that sounds... not quite right. Are their fuel lines made of plastic?
[22:49:07] <zeeshan> the subie had no problem with that test
[22:49:08] <zeeshan> haha
[22:49:12] <Jymmm> malcom2073: rubber
[22:50:02] <furrywolf> on a completely unrelated note, the mailman just dropped off the tinsel wire to fix my speaker...
http://fw.bushytails.net/tinselwire01.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/tinselwire02.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/tinselwire03.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/tinselwire04.jpg some macro porn. it's .054" diameter, to give you some scale.
[22:50:06] <MrFluffy> I drive a landrover for my sins...
[22:50:42] <Jymmm> malcom2073: but you gotta love that you can see/feel the fiber braid thru the outter wall
[22:50:51] <malcom2073> Ew that's no good
[22:51:29] <furrywolf> I've had no problems with fuel line I've purchased.
[22:51:34] <PetefromTn_> what kind of landrover?
[22:52:27] <furrywolf> for a low-cost point-and-shoot, this camera takes consistently shiny macro photos.
[22:52:32] <MrFluffy> the 90, defender shaped but with the crappy series diesel engine with a turbo slapped on
[22:52:48] <MrFluffy> thats why I have to wait until it snows before it will drift...
[22:52:49] <zeeshan> the real land rover!
[22:53:24] <PetefromTn_> D90 NICE!!
[22:54:04] <furrywolf> I've worked on one land rover. I wasn't impressed. overpriced ugly suv.
[22:54:31] <MrFluffy> funny I thought that about the shogun I had before it :)
[22:55:03] <MrFluffy> I drove a v8 classic for a while too, and it was nice but it fell apart like all old range rovers do
[22:55:07] <Jymmm> malcom2073: THIS
http://vpw.com.au/limage/PFE520.jpg
[22:55:30] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Oh I've used that style stuff
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[22:55:59] <malcom2073> afaict, the "braid" feeling is artifical, at least in the stuff I've used
[22:56:26] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Well, between that, the bad reviews, the manager acknowledging it's crap... yeah, no thanks.
[22:56:30] <malcom2073> But, I wouldn't put it past a shitty mfg to see that, and go "Oh, we can make our outside wall thin too!"
[22:57:06] <malcom2073> Crappy store, wouldn't shop there anymore :P
[22:57:32] <furrywolf> fuel line here has to be government-approved, so it's hard to get total crap stuff. well, it's total crap, just in other ways.
[22:58:07] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Like 5 MPH bumpers </sarcasim>
[22:58:11] <malcom2073> Here anything on a vehicle is *supposed* to be, but that doesn't stop people from putting all manner of hacks on
[22:58:26] <furrywolf> Jymmm: I like 5mph bumpers.
[22:58:51] <furrywolf> it's completely ridiculous how expensive pushing something with a modern car is.
[22:59:30] <andypugh> Perhaps US drivers could try, you know, not hitting stuff?
[22:59:38] <furrywolf> bumpers should be metal, and either mounted securely enough a 5mph blow doesn't bend anything, or mounting to a reusable absorbant device.
[22:59:50] <furrywolf> I like UPS and their mounting all the bumpers on leaf springs. :P
[23:00:16] <andypugh> In EU bumpers have to try not to damage pedestrians.
[23:00:19] <malcom2073> I miss chrome bumpers
[23:00:23] <furrywolf> andypugh: hitting things at low speed is normal, either accidental (bad parkers are most of the population) or intentional (pushing obstacles, stalled vehicles, etc).
[23:01:03] <andypugh> It’s rather hard to make a US 5mph bumper that doesn’t cut pedestrians off at the knees. But then it is illegal to be a pedstrian in the US isn’t it?
[23:01:14] <furrywolf> last time I accidentally hit something, it was because I found out my engine would diesel in reverse as well as forwards... took me a half second to get the brake on hard enough, just tapped the bumper on one of my other cars. lol
[23:01:51] <furrywolf> and my jeep diesels in reverse every single time you park it. no idea why.
[23:02:07] <furrywolf> if you're coasting, turn off the key, you'll stop and go backwards a couple feet.
[23:02:20] <malcom2073> You park in gear?
[23:02:36] <malcom2073> I have a remote start, so I park in neutral heh
[23:02:42] <furrywolf> you don't?
[23:02:48] <malcom2073> That's what a parking brake is for
[23:02:54] <furrywolf> you should always park in gear. keeps you from rolling if your emergency brake fails.
[23:03:04] <malcom2073> No it doesn't
[23:03:09] <malcom2073> my car rolls down like a 1% grade in gear
[23:03:18] <malcom2073> too much compression loss :P
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[23:03:39] <furrywolf> your car sucks. lol
[23:03:54] <furrywolf> try working valves and rings. :)
[23:03:57] <malcom2073> Psh
[23:03:59] <malcom2073> It works fine :P
[23:04:38] <MrFluffy> I put my e-brake on and the car rolls a good ft in both directions with transmission slop
[23:04:43] <malcom2073> Besides, if it's a big enough hill thatI'm worried, I chock the wheel
[23:04:44] <MrFluffy> interesting on ferries
[23:04:48] <furrywolf> ... your e-brake sucks too.
[23:04:58] <MrFluffy> no it doesnt, its on the back of the transfer case
[23:05:10] <MrFluffy> so its transmission and axle wind up
[23:05:30] <malcom2073> HMMWV's are fun, the brakes themselves are on the differentials rather than on the wheels. Makes the real brakes feel like transfer case brakes :)
[23:05:45] <furrywolf> so's my jeep's. it allows about a half inch of movement at a radius of, dunno, 5 inches. it also has 5.88:1 axle gears. the result is very little movement of the wheel allowed.
[23:06:13] <MrFluffy> I dont think your jeep is 30 years old on the original axles and joints though :)
[23:06:32] <furrywolf> no, it's 47 years old.
[23:07:27] <MrFluffy> then its doing well on its original axles to not have any backlash in anything
[23:07:29] <JT-Shop> my tractor is 59 this year
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[23:07:44] <furrywolf> a half inch at 5", through 5.88"1, is about .1" at 5"... but the tyres have a 20" radius, so .4". u-joints should have no measurable slop (if they do, get new ones), and differentials should only have a few thousandths play or you need to re-set the gears.
[23:07:49] * JT-Shop wishes he was 59
[23:07:59] <furrywolf> so if it rolls more than an inch either direction, you have problems. :)
[23:07:59] <andypugh> The vehicle i was driving on Sunday is 99 years old
[23:08:19] <JT-Shop> nice, which one?
[23:08:29] <andypugh> 1916 Dennis fire engine.
[23:08:42] <JT-Shop> that is a nice one for sure
[23:08:48] <furrywolf> then my subaru doesn't roll at all, period. it has GOOD emergency brakes.
[23:08:51] <andypugh> The Ner-a-Car is only 94
[23:09:06] <furrywolf> subaru has the e-brake on the front discs. when you put it on, the car isn't moving. :)
[23:09:07] <Tom_itx> with a facelift
[23:09:10] <BubbaP> Hello, total n00b here, does anybody know how to check if a parallel port is operating correctly w/ linuxcnc?
[23:09:45] <furrywolf> (and, yes, on the discs - no stupid drum-in-the-middle-of-a-disc crap like ford likes)
[23:09:51] <MrFluffy> I like fire engines, but last time I nearly bought one my wife got wind and talked me out of it.
[23:09:54] <andypugh> BubbaP:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Parallel_Port_Tester
[23:10:10] <furrywolf> BubbaP: I'm not sure what you're asking. does your machine move? lol
[23:10:32] <BubbaP> No, can't even get an LED to light up on pin 1
[23:11:13] -!- JohnyK has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[23:11:15] <BubbaP> just wondering what kernel modules should be loaded too
[23:11:21] <andypugh> dmesg will tell youif it failed to find a p-port at the address given
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[23:11:54] <andypugh> BubbaP: What lsmod say? lp will tend to claim the port so that Linuxcnc can’t have it
[23:12:22] <BubbaP> I have parport and parport_pc loaded
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[23:12:59] <andypugh> I think that’s OK
[23:13:24] <BubbaP> dmesg says "parport0: PC-style at 0x378, irq 7 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,EPP]"
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[23:13:46] <andypugh> That sounds OK.
[23:14:17] <andypugh> sudo dmesg -c
[23:14:19] <andypugh> halrun
[23:15:05] <BubbaP> hmm, it says "halcmd:"
[23:15:24] <andypugh> loadrt hal_parport cfg=“0”
[23:15:30] <andypugh> exit
[23:15:32] <andypugh> dmesg
[23:15:56] <BubbaP> got "Error: could not insert module /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/linuxcnc/hal_parport.ko: Resource temporarily unavailable"
[23:16:26] <andypugh> Right, that looks like something else has claimed the parport. Does lsmod show “lp” or something such?
[23:16:47] <BubbaP> yes, lp is listed in lsmod
[23:17:11] <andypugh> sudo modprobe lp, sudo modprobe parport_pc
[23:17:18] <andypugh> Then try the halrun thing again
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[23:17:59] <ve7it> rmmod???
[23:18:07] <furrywolf> modprobe -r?
[23:18:38] <BubbaP> says "module lp is in use"
[23:18:41] <andypugh> Something like that :-) Do I look like a linux Guru?
[23:19:20] <BubbaP> ok, the dumb printer subsystem must be using it. I'll see if I can disable it
[23:20:35] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/getting-started/index.html#_updating_your_config now says that parport_pc is OK, but I think that lp is still a problem.
[23:20:58] <ve7it> andypugh, in all your experiments, have you used a treadmill motor as a spindle drive?
[23:21:01] <andypugh> (Ah, no, wait, that advice is for 2.7 and I suspect you are not running that)
[23:21:10] <andypugh> ve7it: No, never.
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[23:23:01] <ve7it> andypugh, I have a nice 2.5hp (1.8kw) motor and working controller in a treadmill... was thinking of using an arduino to make the control look like one of the standard modbus vfd's
[23:23:39] <andypugh> Gene is using that setup but without any Arduino cleverness. Just PWM or analogue or something.
[23:24:27] <andypugh> I don’t think that Arduino IO can do anything that LinuxCNC IO can’t do.
[23:26:17] <ve7it> yes... there is a pwm interface to the controller 50hz updates and 15-85% duty cycle.... The arduino can to mind as it plugs in as a serial device and if it accepted modbus commands, it would require very little work on the linuxcnc side
[23:27:01] <andypugh> But writing a modbus library for Arduino sounds like effort.
[23:27:15] <andypugh> When LinuxCNC does PWM really easily.
[23:29:19] <ve7it> it already exists.... a couple of lines of code gets it running.... you are right, the pwm is an easy hal setup... probably easiest as I dont need a reversing drive for the lathe spindle
[23:29:36] <BubbaP> Aha, ok, we got lp removed, now the loadrt hal_parport thing works - is there anything else to try?
[23:30:08] <andypugh> setp parport.0.pin-00-out 1
[23:30:23] <andypugh> (Actually, I am not sure that pin 00 is an output).
[23:30:42] <andypugh> In fact there isn’t a pin 00. (Sorry)
[23:30:54] <andypugh> Are you still at the halcmd prompt?
[23:30:59] <BubbaP> yep
[23:31:04] <andypugh> show pin
[23:31:26] <BubbaP> hmm, it doesn't show any pins
[23:31:30] <andypugh> That will list all the current HAL pins (which at the moment will just be the parport pins)
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[23:31:49] <andypugh> That’s odd
[23:32:36] <BubbaP> should lsmod show hal_parport?
[23:32:42] <andypugh> I am not sure
[23:33:01] <andypugh> You can open another terminal and run dmesg
[23:33:23] <BubbaP> ok, there was a bunch of stuff
[23:34:04] <andypugh> Anything obvious? (It will be near the end)
[23:35:06] <BubbaP> Here's the results:
http://pastebin.com/BrUAB3Aq
[23:35:59] <andypugh> Is that after the loadrt hal_parport cfg=“0” thing?
[23:36:22] <BubbaP> it might be, let me try it again
[23:36:38] <Tom_itx> dmesg -c first
[23:36:45] <Tom_itx> then you will just see what loaded
[23:37:05] <andypugh> Or tail -f /var/log/kernel.log for live updates :-)
[23:37:12] -!- luiscr [luiscr!~smuxi@189.250.88.189] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:39:54] <BubbaP> yeesh, it didn't load this time and I got this:
http://pastebin.com/pYRSru9K
[23:40:21] <andypugh> That’s new to me
[23:40:56] <andypugh> What did you actually type in the cfg= string?
[23:41:18] <andypugh> just exit and then halrun again.
[23:41:27] <BubbaP> ok
[23:43:21] <BubbaP> well, that worked, both dmesg and the kernel log just said "[ 2283.974177] config string '0'"
[23:43:30] <andypugh> Great
[23:43:33] <andypugh> show pin ?
[23:43:50] <BubbaP> JACKPOT!!!!
[23:44:06] -!- luiscr has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[23:44:45] <andypugh> At this point you could try setp (pin name) 1 and setp (pin name) 0 but there is a bit more to it than that, as you need a realtime thread to run the update functions.
[23:45:09] <andypugh> So you might as well use that parport tester I linked earlier, which has its own instructions.
[23:45:41] <andypugh> To save the same hassle next time, this is probably a good time to blacklist the naughty printer modules.
[23:46:12] <BubbaP> ok, will do, thanks!!
[23:46:49] <andypugh> Actually, if you want, try this
[23:46:53] <andypugh> loadrt threads
[23:47:05] <andypugh> addf parport.0.write thread1
[23:47:09] <andypugh> start
[23:47:16] <andypugh> setp (pin name) 1
[23:49:36] <BubbaP> hmm, well we didn't see a light but getp does say it's set
[23:50:26] <andypugh> Show thread will tell you if the parport-write function is running
[23:51:55] <BubbaP> yep, it says its running, we're just checking connections and voltage right now
[23:52:25] -!- Thomaxo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[23:52:29] <andypugh> LED is between parport output pin and parport Gnd and the right way round?
[23:52:56] <archivist> and does the port need a pull up
[23:53:15] <andypugh> It is vaguely possible that the LED needs more current than the parport can source.
[23:53:26] <BubbaP> we're also checking it w/ a meter too but we still get 0 volts
[23:53:59] <andypugh> You don’t by any chance have more than one parport?
[23:54:19] <BubbaP> no, just the one on the motherboard, we'll try some other pins
[23:54:19] <archivist> open collector will measure 0
[23:55:14] <andypugh> Parport putputs do tend to work best as current sinks
[23:56:07] <BubbaP> So, maybe just hook it straight up to the xylotex box?
[23:56:16] <BubbaP> and give it a whirl?
[23:56:16] <andypugh> Yeah, maybe time for that now
[23:56:33] <BubbaP> should I stop that thread thingy?
[23:57:03] <andypugh> In fact, you might as well exit halcmd and start up stepconf.
[23:58:20] <BubbaP> Are there any safe values we should check for?
[23:58:24] <archivist> just had to subtract 2015-1849, the engine is 166 years old :)
[23:59:34] <andypugh> Time for me to retire for the night.
[23:59:45] <BubbaP> ok, well thanks for all your help
