#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-05-03

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[00:21:37] <Connor> t12: what lathe ?
[00:22:21] <t12> precision mattews thing
[00:22:29] <t12> pm-1228vf-lb
[00:22:45] <t12> which appears to be a better configured pm-1127vf-lb
[00:23:32] <Connor> I was looking at some of the 10x22 and 10x30 models..
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[00:32:49] <membiblio> Good Evening
[00:35:14] <membiblio> Has anyone used a AC Servo Drive for the X,Y,Z axis such as the Yaskawa SGDB-15VD?
[00:36:23] <membiblio> If so... how did you connect to LinuxCNC - through Parport pins? Using step and direction, or other config?
[00:38:17] <ffurrywol> do your servos want step/direction or 0-10v? if step/dir, you could use parallel. if 0-10v, mesa boards are the standard answer here.
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[00:51:51] <membiblio> I wish I knew what these devices 'took' in... the D in the part number means that it is capable of Torque, Speed and Position Control.
[00:52:22] <membiblio> There are no obvious Step and Direction input pins.
[00:55:07] <ffurrywol> that probably means 0-10v or -10v-10v
[00:55:18] <membiblio> There are, however, on CN2 pins such as PULS CW (A phase), SIGN CCW (B Phase), CLR and these are called "Position Reference" and are specific and separate from the CN1 Optical Encoder input from the motor.
[00:56:08] <membiblio> These appear to be digital inputs as they terminate at the led side of a opto isolator in the drawing of the box.
[00:56:49] <ffurrywol> the manual is 8MB, so it'll be a while before I can read it for you.
[00:57:40] <membiblio> How do you connect to the internet?
[00:58:01] <membiblio> Not that it is any of my business, right?
[00:58:04] <membiblio> :)
[00:58:19] <Tom_itx> telegraph
[00:58:36] <ffurrywol> slowly. :P
[00:59:04] <membiblio> Wow. I remember Decwriter terminals but only played with telegraph machines. I think 110baud?
[00:59:23] <membiblio> Maybe I could just read the manual to you.
[01:00:01] <membiblio> This machine is a routech 250 with a num 1040w controller which interfaces directly to these boxes.
[01:00:36] <ffurrywol> you want a speed signal, which can be +/-1v to +/-10v range, input on the "speed reference input" terminal, "v-ref", relative to the "sg" ground, from my reading of the manual.
[01:00:36] <membiblio> I'm replacing that with LinuxCNC/EMC2 - maybe.
[01:01:13] <membiblio> Furry - How did the originall controller specify a absolute position - I wonder?
[01:02:02] <membiblio> Remember that these control the X, Y, Z Axis. They must be absolutely precise. Right?
[01:02:21] <membiblio> Am I not 'getting' something?
[01:02:33] <ffurrywol> "cn-2b" should be set to "0" for "speed control", "1cn-41" selecting P or PI speed loop mode.
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[01:02:54] <ffurrywol> generally there's an encoder on the motor that goes to the control system
[01:03:22] <membiblio> There is a encoder but it goes back into this control. The SGDB-15VD.
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[01:03:59] <membiblio> Furry which manual are you looking at? Can you post the url?
[01:04:30] <ffurrywol> you can also use "position reference mode", in which case it looks like PULS and SIGN are step/dir inputs
[01:04:32] <membiblio> I'm reading INSTRUCTIONS and then I also have a DIgital Operator Operation Manual.
[01:04:52] <membiblio> Really??? Where do you see that please?
[01:05:51] <membiblio> Those three pins... PULS, SIGN, CLR must be configurable via the display module.
[01:05:56] <ffurrywol> grrrr. stupid fucking google making it intentionally hard to get the url.
[01:08:25] <MrFluffy> on my yaskawa servopacks the controls are intergrated into the units, but no idea how to hook them up to linuxcnc sorry
[01:08:26] <membiblio> I see in the operator manual Control Method Selection - Position Control (Pulse Train Reference)
[01:08:57] <MrFluffy> its salient because theres two on the desk next to me right now, but not from a machine running linuxcnc
[01:08:59] <membiblio> MfFluffy - I'm hoping this bad boy takes in step and direction.
[01:09:25] <ffurrywol> http://www1.yaskawa.com/site/dmservo.nsf/link2/MNEN-5CLKHC/$file/TSE-S800-16E.pdf
[01:09:43] <membiblio> It is infinately configurable - but the magic sauce escapes me at this moment.
[01:10:00] <membiblio> Thanks furry I will take a look at what you are looking at.
[01:10:09] <ffurrywol> this manual is one of the most obtusely written I've seen.
[01:11:32] <membiblio> Furry - thank you. I had not seen this before. It is 585 pages so SHOULD have absolutely every answer I could concievably ever think of a question to ask. Right?
[01:12:34] <ffurrywol> yes
[01:12:42] <ffurrywol> just be warned it's written like crap. lol
[01:13:59] ffurrywol is now known as furrywolf
[01:15:06] <furrywolf> the general suggestion I've seen is to use a mesa board with +/-10v output and have linuxcnc close the position loop
[01:15:34] <membiblio> PP 37 shows Pulse and direction. Boingo.
[01:15:46] <MrFluffy> its written in japanese then translated by someone that doesnt know servo drives in english
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[01:18:13] <furrywolf> and who also doesn't know that introducing a new non-obvious term with no definition, especially if it's one applicable only to your product, isn't helpful. nor is using non-standard names for everything.
[01:19:24] <furrywolf> membiblio: the most important part is, when testing, have the motors disconnected from the machine. servo configuration has a ~100% chance of sending at least one axis flying full-speed until it hits something.
[01:20:20] <membiblio> I was just reading and thinking about that. I was hoping to run the servos manually Monday via the operator interface in Jog mode.
[01:20:39] <membiblio> After that I guess I really should physically disconnect them from the machine.
[01:21:04] <MrFluffy> wont you get an error on the control?
[01:21:14] <membiblio> It is a gantry machine and I'm assuming it could be asked to damage itself. So....
[01:21:26] <MrFluffy> I get a heat error if the servopack tries to move a servo motor and it doesnt respond
[01:21:47] <furrywolf> if there's no feedback past the motors (most machines have none other than limit switches), it won't know if the motors are actually turning anything.
[01:21:54] <membiblio> The Servo Control has a Operator Interface that plugs into the front that can jog the motor.
[01:22:10] <MrFluffy> furrywolf: they are connected to the encoder on the motor
[01:22:25] <membiblio> The motor has a optical feedback encoder back to the control.
[01:22:28] <MrFluffy> the servopack asks the motor to move then checks the motor is doing what it is told from the encoder readings
[01:22:32] <furrywolf> MrFluffy: I mean mechanically disconnecting the motors from the machine, not electrically. loosen shaft coupler, or remove the motor, etc.
[01:22:44] <MrFluffy> ok, that would work
[01:22:50] <furrywolf> so the motor and encoder rotate, but no heavy bits move around
[01:22:58] <membiblio> Yes - after jogging - I will physically disconnect the motors from the machine. Before testing with LinuxCNC.
[01:23:09] <membiblio> Good Advice. Thank you.
[01:23:31] <membiblio> Wow, this could actually work.
[01:24:06] <membiblio> I am really impressed with LinuxCNC. The manual is excellent.
[01:24:16] <furrywolf> if you use step/direction mode, you should be pretty safe. if you use speed control mode, then you get a good chance of things randomizing.
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[01:24:43] <furrywolf> note that parallel port control generally sucks, and for a machine classy enough to have servos, a mesa board is probably a good idea.
[01:25:47] <membiblio> Furry - I hear you. I'd like to get *something* working and see how it works. So this seems like it has some chance of success.
[01:26:14] <membiblio> When something works. Then I can experiment and optimise.
[01:27:06] <membiblio> So... has anyone built LinuxCNC from Scratch or modified the code?
[01:27:27] <CaptHindsight> yes
[01:29:15] <membiblio> Is there a easy to follow proceedure? Can you do it by installing from the live CD base?
[01:29:30] <MrFluffy> CaptHindsight: I gave up trying to get camview-emc working, but as a horrible workaround I have mplayer with a cross drawn on the image in a user tab for now...
[01:32:13] <MrFluffy> membiblio: theres a installer on the live cd base
[01:33:08] <membiblio> MrFluffy - That is what I used. From Live CD -> Installed to HD. Is gcc and tools and source of LinuxCNC installed or must that me installed by Git'ing?
[01:34:11] <MrFluffy> its debian underneath so you can use apt-get or aptitude to install binaries as you see fit, I have no clue what the ubuntu one comes with as I started with the debian image off the bat
[01:35:16] <furrywolf> zeeshan: you around?
[01:42:10] <MrFluffy> I think I need to brush the swarf up :) http://gallery.pipandphil.com/v/Vehicles/workshop/?g2_page=6&g2_showId=38788
[01:42:27] <MrFluffy> http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38788-1/supereyes.jpg even
[01:42:47] <furrywolf> I need to vacuum the swarf off my living room floor.
[01:43:15] <MrFluffy> thats not a bad quality when you consider theres not actually any lighting on in the shop currently
[01:43:18] <furrywolf> but there's too much crap around and under the workbench to do so
[01:45:53] <furrywolf> argh, my connection is sucking even worse than usual tonight. I'm uploading two images for zeeshan. I started them at the same time I asked if he was around. I'm halfway done with the first one.
[01:48:17] <Jymmm> http://imgur.com/MZ7ILIF
[01:49:52] <furrywolf> I don't know what's worse... that you did that, or that it took 30 seconds to load.
[01:50:01] <furrywolf> yay! upload finally finished.
[01:50:38] <Jymmm> lil column A, lil column B.
[01:51:01] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/yardsalecutters01.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/yardsalecutters02.jpg box of 10 rotabroach cutters. I'm fairly sure one of them is a 3/4 cobalt roughing endmill, not a rotabroach cutter, but it was in the box, so that's fine with me!
[01:51:45] <furrywolf> we were talking about annular cutters yesterday, and thanks to the miracle of coincidence, I now own 9 more. lol
[01:51:53] <Jymmm> Is there a SIMPLE way to determine where a thread would finish?
[01:52:03] <Jymmm> (tapping)
[01:52:10] <furrywolf> yes. run it and see.
[01:52:28] <Jymmm> blind hole essencially
[01:52:57] <furrywolf> annular cutters rock. :)
[01:58:50] <MrFluffy> ugh, you know when two of something comes up for auction, and you want at least one so you bid both with fairly low bids?
[01:59:04] <MrFluffy> it seems I am now the owner of TWO machine xy tables...
[02:00:55] <furrywolf> yep, have had that happen.
[02:01:25] <furrywolf> jbidwatcher used to have multisnipe groups that would automatically take care of it for you.
[02:01:32] <furrywolf> as long as they were more than 3 seconds apart or so
[02:01:46] <MrFluffy> two seperate accounts, in different countries
[02:01:59] <MrFluffy> both locked to local sales only
[02:02:24] <furrywolf> .... then why did you bid on them?
[02:02:29] <MrFluffy> dont ask me how Im getting the one from the UK here though. Might be time for my annual disowning by the mother in law
[02:03:51] <furrywolf> hrmm, I need to get a chuck off, and I can't find a big honkin' allen key.
[02:06:32] <MrFluffy> the UK one Ill get couriered to the mother in laws then take the kids over to the uk to visit in the van being the dutiful father than I am...
[02:06:56] <MrFluffy> hunt down a surface table while opportunity knocks...
[02:07:21] * archivist hides his surface table
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[02:09:49] <MrFluffy> if you can hide it that easy, its not quite the size Im aiming to snag!
[02:10:07] <XXCoder1> easy
[02:10:28] <XXCoder1> use nice table cover on top of Surface lol
[02:10:30] <archivist> I will leave the rusty one in site though
[02:10:32] <furrywolf> tips for getting off a stuck drill chuck? it should just unscrew with application of sufficient impact, right?
[02:10:42] <archivist> sight
[02:10:49] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: try angle it
[02:10:54] <XXCoder1> light tap
[02:10:56] <furrywolf> hrmm, impact... I bet I can tighten it onto a allen socket and run my impact wrench on it...
[02:11:24] <MrFluffy> is it on a jacobs taper?
[02:11:50] <roycroft> he said "unscrew" so i would assume it's a threaded chuck
[02:12:09] <roycroft> and good luck with that
[02:12:14] <archivist> tying to unscrew a taper is hard
[02:12:28] * furrywolf hands roycroft the "yay, someone actually read the question!" award
[02:12:32] <roycroft> the chuck has been on my 1/2" milwaukee magnum drill for about 25 years now, because i can't get it off
[02:12:32] <archivist> chuck off what?
[02:12:45] <furrywolf> I've been beating on an allen key with no success. trying an impact wrench now.
[02:12:54] <roycroft> i ended up buying another drill to put the right angle head on
[02:13:19] <roycroft> i distorted the chuck key sockets on mine from beating on it so hard
[02:14:16] <archivist> think about the poor bearings you are hitting too
[02:14:42] <MrFluffy> very large stilsons time
[02:14:58] <furrywolf> yay! that worked exceptionally well.
[02:15:28] <roycroft> there's more than one reason i gave up and bought another drill
[02:15:35] <XXCoder1> impact wrench eh
[02:15:35] <furrywolf> I tightened the chuck down on a 7/16" hex 1/2" drive allen bit, and ran my impact wrench on it. about half a second and it was free.
[02:16:19] <furrywolf> I'm pulling the chuck off a poor-condition yard sale drill to put on my milwaukee right angle drill that I bought missing the chuck
[02:16:45] <furrywolf> it's a usable drill, but I need the right-angle drill more. heh.
[02:17:02] <roycroft> i hardly use mine anymore
[02:17:13] <Tom_itx> crap. motion.spindle-speed-in is in rps and motion-spindle-speed-out is in rpm
[02:17:14] <roycroft> i originally got the right angle adapter for my magnum
[02:17:38] <roycroft> so when i could no longer get the chuck off i just bought another magnum, put the right angle adapter on it, and left it that way
[02:17:52] <furrywolf> lol
[02:18:16] <roycroft> i used to do a fair amount of electrical and plumbing work
[02:18:24] <roycroft> not enough to justify getting a hole hawg
[02:18:38] <roycroft> but enough that i needed a decent right angle drill on a regular basis
[02:18:59] <roycroft> i still need one once in a while, but to get in really tight places
[02:19:15] <roycroft> so i have a 12v milwaukee right angle battery drill for that kind of stuff
[02:19:27] <roycroft> which i use far more often than i ever thought i would
[02:19:55] <furrywolf> I saw a hole hawg at a yard sale today. in high speed the chuck spun freely, in low speed it slightly attempted to grab something. I decided I did not need it.
[02:20:01] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: so whats your plan for rest of drill lol
[02:20:14] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/easydrillchuckremoval01.jpg
[02:20:27] <furrywolf> XXCoder1: toss it in a box in case I need a spare drill
[02:20:35] <XXCoder1> cool
[02:20:46] <roycroft> i don't think i ever tried an impact wrench on a chucked up allen socket
[02:20:48] <XXCoder1> or motor for something else
[02:20:54] <XXCoder1> like homebrew lathe lil
[02:21:00] <roycroft> now i'm going to have to go try that to see if i can get the damn thing off
[02:21:16] <furrywolf> I've never tried it before either. it worked REALLY WELL.
[02:21:23] <MrFluffy> live tooling spindle motor for the lathe :)
[02:21:29] <roycroft> yes, as soon as you said it it made total sense
[02:21:44] <roycroft> ok, i have to go try that
[02:21:51] <XXCoder1> MrFluffy: theres guide online on how to use drill to make a fairly crappy lathe lol
[02:21:53] <roycroft> and it really has been at least 25 years since i've had the chuck off
[02:22:00] <XXCoder1> diamter limit maybe 2 inches
[02:22:57] <Jymmm> I just wanted the barb to point in a specific direction is all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDkL593Wbt0
[02:23:27] <Jymmm> Technically, just away from the handle
[02:24:08] <MrFluffy> I have a ex grinder motor mounted on a toolholder block to drive a spindle in my lathe, poormans live tooling
[02:27:07] <MrFluffy> I have to hide it when electrical safety minded people visit... http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38791-1/homemade_tpg_mounted.jpg
[02:29:43] <MrFluffy> apparently wrapping self amagamating tape round the burny electrical bits isnt code or something.
[02:33:04] <furrywolf> lol
[02:35:10] <furrywolf> I wanted the hole hawg... but I didn't need one with a completely stripped gearbox. heh.
[02:36:07] <roycroft> well that did not work
[02:36:13] <furrywolf> I have a sherline lathe, and my shoptask is a mill/lathe combo... a drill lathe would not be a useful addition to my tool collection. it'd have lower capacities than my sherline in every way, and suck too.
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[02:36:37] <roycroft> i haven't dumped any penetrating oil in it for 2 1/2 decades though
[02:36:41] <XXCoder1> yeah its not too bad for person who dont have lathe and want to make small thing
[02:36:48] <furrywolf> did you use the "unscrew" direction? do you now need a new gearbox? :)
[02:36:52] <roycroft> perhaps if i did that and let it soak in for a couple days and tried again
[02:37:03] <s1dev> What setting controls the orientation for the tool representation in the visualizer? I'm using linuxcnc for the control for a 5 axis router
[02:37:06] <roycroft> the drill still works fine - i tested it after
[02:37:06] <furrywolf> did you use a large enough impact wrench? :)
[02:37:16] <s1dev> right now it's showing 90 degrees off where it should be
[02:37:18] <roycroft> i used a beefy 1/2" impact wrench
[02:37:22] <MrFluffy> Ive been there chasing the drill with a big bolt in round the floor many moons ago, its amazing what you come up with when you have nothing an dno money...
[02:37:24] <roycroft> and a 1/2" allen socket
[02:37:41] <furrywolf> then you need a larger impact wrench! if the chuck didn't come off, and the gears still have teeth, your impact wrench wasn't big enough.
[02:37:46] <XXCoder1> what country accepts dno money? ;)
[02:37:58] <roycroft> sadly, i don't have a 1" to 1/2" impact adapter
[02:38:04] <roycroft> otherwise i'd use my 1" impact wrench
[02:38:10] <MrFluffy> synergy being a bit random, or I cant type, one or the other
[02:38:20] <roycroft> iirc it has 1200 ft*lbs of torque
[02:38:28] <furrywolf> I have impact wrenches to 1" in both air and electric. I suspect either the chuck comes off or the gears do. :)
[02:38:43] <roycroft> i know it makes my compressor run frequently
[02:38:48] <furrywolf> sounds about right. I think that's what my air one is rated for.
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[02:38:51] <roycroft> 5hp compressor with 60 gallon tank
[02:39:06] <XXCoder1> mill your own adoptor?
[02:39:07] <roycroft> i keep it set to 140psi
[02:39:13] <furrywolf> note that you need a 3/4" hose to actually get that torque! if you run it through a 3/8 hose, it's WORSE than a 3/4" impact.
[02:39:25] <furrywolf> a 1/2 hose is adequate but not great
[02:39:29] <roycroft> yeah, and my hoses are 1/2"
[02:39:40] <roycroft> but i still drain the air tank quickly
[02:39:52] <furrywolf> I've tried running mine off a 3/8" hose, and it's humorous.
[02:40:10] <roycroft> since i have a spare magnum with the right angle adapter on it i think i'll just give up again for another quarter century
[02:40:24] <roycroft> by which time if i'm not dead i'll be too old to be able to lift the drill anyway
[02:40:26] <MrFluffy> you could always machine the old chuck off roy
[02:40:35] <furrywolf> it kinda attempts to give a burst of speed, then slows down to about 1/10th proper speed.
[02:40:50] <roycroft> or do what i did 25 years ago, and buy another drill
[02:40:54] <MrFluffy> get it down to a thin wall thickness then crack the remnants
[02:40:57] <roycroft> the chuck is perfectly fine on this one
[02:41:00] <furrywolf> I need to put a new power cord on my 1" electric impact.
[02:41:11] <roycroft> it just won't come off
[02:41:18] <MrFluffy> when I first got my lathe the chuck hadnt been off in eons I think, and I had to machine the backplate off the nose
[02:41:24] <roycroft> and i don't need to take it off, now that i have a spare with the right angle adapter
[02:41:30] <furrywolf> the current cord is... sketchy. bare copper = bad.
[02:41:44] <roycroft> i only tried it now because
[02:42:13] <furrywolf> harbor freight's impact adapter set isn't bad, and for something like $6 will get you 1" to 3/4" and 3/4" to 1/2".
[02:42:22] <roycroft> they don't put those twist lock cords on milwaukee tools any more
[02:42:39] <roycroft> i always liked those
[02:42:56] <furrywolf> I saw a sawzall with the twist-lock cord today, same yard sale as the broken hole hawg... it didn't work either.
[02:43:13] <roycroft> what i especially liked is that the tools came with 6' cords but you could buy a 15' cord
[02:43:24] <furrywolf> no sign of life. checked brushes and plug, still no sign of life.
[02:43:27] <roycroft> so you could use that and avoid using an extension cord for most things
[02:43:55] <roycroft> or even when you still need an extension cord, you could reach the ceiling with the tool and the plug would still be on the floor, so it wouldn't come unplugged easily
[02:44:00] <furrywolf> windings didn't look burnt, so guessing bad speed control.
[02:44:21] <furrywolf> I got a funny look from the guy at the sale when I pulled out my multitool and popped the brushes in about five seconds. lol
[02:44:32] <roycroft> squirt some wd-40 on it and try again
[02:44:37] <roycroft> that fixes almost everything :P
[02:44:39] <furrywolf> I didn't buy it.
[02:44:46] <roycroft> oh, this is the one you didn't get
[02:44:51] <furrywolf> and wd40 probably doesn't fix blown transistors.
[02:45:09] <roycroft> it doesn't put the magic smoke back in
[02:45:11] <roycroft> nothing does that
[02:45:20] <roycroft> sometimes it makes new magic smoke for you though
[02:45:24] <roycroft> which is always fun
[02:45:35] <XXCoder1> lol
[02:45:57] <MrFluffy> I think thats from the lucas wiring manual
[02:45:58] <s1dev> can anyone point me in the right direction for tool orientation (angle) in the visualizer?
[02:46:02] <furrywolf> google lucas replacement smoke. I'd google it and paste something, but my connection is still trying to load the video someone pasted above, and google won't load.
[02:47:39] <roycroft> i avoid google, but duck duck go found it
[02:47:57] <roycroft> too much to read right now though - i have to go fix dinner
[02:48:00] <roycroft> and shoot some more paint
[02:48:02] * furrywolf cancels the video
[02:48:07] <roycroft> i'll read it later on this evening
[02:48:08] <furrywolf> seems to be some crap about honda gas caps
[02:48:34] <XXCoder1> yeah and hose connection on it
[02:48:38] <XXCoder1> no idea whats up with that
[02:49:38] <furrywolf> http://www.harborfreight.com/7-pc-impact-socket-adapter-set-67937.html that impact adapter set is pretty useful
[02:49:43] <furrywolf> and I haven't broken any of them yet.
[02:49:49] <archivist> s1dev, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/lathe/lathe-user.html
[02:50:33] <furrywolf> roycroft: you say nothing puts the smoke back in... but http://www.keithbloom.com/vgvanilla/discussion/4/lucas-replacement-wiring-harness-smoke-kit/p1 !
[02:53:36] <roycroft> i believe that's british smoke, furrywolf
[02:53:44] <roycroft> and we're talking about an american drill
[02:54:06] <furrywolf> lol
[02:54:28] <roycroft> it would either be imperial smoke or, if it's recent, metric smoke
[02:54:30] <s1dev> archivist: that's as pertains to a lathe, is it the same for a mill?
[02:54:36] <MrFluffy> lucas is pre metric so it should be compatible
[02:54:50] <furrywolf> lucas smoke is probably whitworth.
[02:55:09] <roycroft> putting that in a us customary drill might be dangerous
[02:56:29] <MrFluffy> landrovers used lucas oem, and on the 90 the rear wings were held on with metric fixings and the front ones with imperial, and to source brake flexy lines you had to measure the pitch because nobody was quite sure which cars got fitted with which parts for a couple of years.
[02:56:31] <roycroft> remember - an imperial gallon of smoke is 1.2 us gallons of smoke
[02:56:39] <norias> good point
[02:57:11] <furrywolf> hrmm, but british cars emit a lot more than 1.2 times the smoke as american cars.
[02:57:20] <norias> huh
[02:57:24] <norias> i didn't know that
[02:58:23] <furrywolf> subaru oil pressure sensors are british pipe thread, if you want odd usage of british standards in other things...
[02:58:57] <MrFluffy> heh plumbing fittings here in france are in bsp and sized in nominally fractional sizes
[02:59:08] <furrywolf> france, the land of metric?
[02:59:30] <MrFluffy> indeed, and you get sold a 15/21 fitting and it has 3/4 cast onto the body
[03:00:04] * furrywolf bets when confronted with opposition to metricification of plumbing standards, the french government surrendered. </bad american joke>
[03:00:37] <norias> that was really bad
[03:00:45] <MrFluffy> they probably demanded it got renamed to metric sizes, but theres always oddments to catch you out, you cant buy 15mm pipe, only 12 or 14
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[03:01:13] <furrywolf> lol
[03:01:50] <furrywolf> I always get annoyed when datasheets list pins on 2.54mm spacing... I mean, really, the standard is 0.1in.
[03:02:05] <furrywolf> pretending it's metric doesn't make it metric.
[03:02:41] <MrFluffy> I prefer metric, but units are units. You can measure in furlongs per bushel as long as it works
[03:03:07] <furrywolf> lol
[03:03:16] <MrFluffy> the irony is the si unit of measure is the mm and metre, but the french use the cm
[03:03:39] <archivist> s1dev, on a mill it depends how you set up, 3,4,5 axis and what is mounted on what
[03:03:43] <MrFluffy> so you ask for some stock 800 long and get rather odd looks.
[03:03:47] <furrywolf> my car gets 1638 furlongs per bushel. my truck only gets 596 fpb. :(
[03:04:18] <norias> as far a machining goes
[03:04:28] <s1dev> archivist: 5 axis gantry style machine
[03:04:37] <norias> i don't see the big deal over metric vs. imperial
[03:04:46] <norias> my calculator works fine
[03:04:56] <norias> i always feel like i'm missing something in that debate
[03:05:05] <furrywolf> my other car got 2309fpb, but I haven't measured it with its new engine yet.
[03:05:08] <s1dev> archivist: first rotary axis rotates around Z and when that's at 0 then the second rotates around X
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[03:06:10] <MrFluffy> I was brought up in the UK using both systems, but the schools went metric just as I went to engineering college, so Im easy. but I still know my height in feet and inches, its just people clinging to what they are familiar with
[03:06:32] <s1dev> archivist: both rotary axes are on the spindle
[03:06:39] <furrywolf> metric is essentially non-existant here except for repairing foreign cars.
[03:06:59] <furrywolf> metric hardware is a few small bins hidden behind everything else in the hardware store
[03:07:06] <archivist> s1dev, look at your ini, the axis order xyzabc change that to the order yours are stacked
[03:07:26] <MrFluffy> I would wager in large international manufacturers its not
[03:07:59] <norias> last company i as at
[03:08:07] <norias> everything was designed in metric
[03:08:16] <norias> because it was supposed to be international
[03:08:22] <furrywolf> any metric hardware not extremely common has to be ordered through the local industrial automation shop, and it's ungodly expensive. I always go online.
[03:08:27] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: the EU2000 only has a one gallon tank. Modifying the cap allows you to extend your runtime without shutting off the generator to refuel.
[03:08:29] <norias> and at first, folks would bring me dual dimensioned prints
[03:08:37] <norias> which i dislike more than metric
[03:08:42] <XXCoder1> ahh cool
[03:08:45] <furrywolf> we had to order some flywheel bolts through a specialty fastener company, because metric is hard to get.
[03:08:46] <norias> so i got them to just do metric
[03:09:00] <norias> then i got them to stop making prints
[03:09:04] <furrywolf> you want HARDENED METRIC?!?! we don't sell none o' that commie shit here!
[03:09:05] <norias> because it was prototypes
[03:09:14] <norias> and prints took too long
[03:09:19] <norias> for something that might not work
[03:10:38] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: You can buy a $40 special cap off ebay, or what that video showed was modificing your existing cap with the abality to return it to stock if you want.
[03:10:41] <norias> sorry, rambling
[03:11:02] <MrFluffy> I have a friend whos a buyer for a large truck company and they would not source tools or equipment that didnt come with metric fasteners because of the economies of scale they can get buying for the entire group
[03:11:29] <furrywolf> I need to make my diesel generator more useful. it's unacceptably loud, by several orders of magnitude.
[03:11:47] <furrywolf> you can't hear someone yelling near you within 25ft of it.
[03:12:11] <XXCoder1> egg carton foam
[03:12:27] <Jymmm> I can have mine running on full, and talk in a normal level with someone 5ft away, it's awfully quiet.
[03:13:21] <s1dev> archivist: since there's two rotary axes, A and C, currently it's XYZAC, since C rotates A, would the proper order by XYZCA ?
[03:13:27] <furrywolf> it's an odd generator. it's a balmar marine alternator bolted to a yanmar 5hp diesel, and puts out 24V 100A.
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[03:14:55] <furrywolf> my eu3000is is nice and quiet too, but it's less efficient.
[03:15:23] <furrywolf> both a less-efficient engine and fuel (gas vs diesel), and it goes dc -> ac -> dc -> batteries, rather than dc -> batteries.
[03:15:45] <MrFluffy> gas doesnt have storage issues long term though...
[03:16:04] <furrywolf> MrFluffy: I see you've never stored gas.
[03:16:17] <Jymmm> MrFluffy: ever hear of gum up?
[03:16:32] <MrFluffy> gas as in lpg, not gas as in petrol
[03:16:49] <furrywolf> modern gas stores like crap. the ethanol (10% of the mix) absorbs water even worse than diesel does.
[03:16:51] <MrFluffy> I know about petrol and having to dose it with stabil after more than a few weeks :)
[03:16:55] <XXCoder1> isnt gas gave like 2 years life
[03:17:06] <XXCoder1> I know I have ran bad gas onb my mower lol
[03:17:13] <furrywolf> ok, in this country, "gas" means what you call petrol. :P
[03:17:16] <MrFluffy> I like generators that run on bottled gas, is what I meant
[03:17:32] <MrFluffy> because theyre always ready to go
[03:17:35] <XXCoder1> know what I want?
[03:17:38] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: I don't like to store that long, wil fille car, then refill cans.
[03:17:39] <XXCoder1> grass fueled mower
[03:17:44] <furrywolf> except our petrol is full of ethanol and sucks.
[03:17:54] <MrFluffy> theyre called goats XXCoder1...
[03:18:01] <furrywolf> lol
[03:18:03] <XXCoder1> MrFluffy: lol less poppy version then
[03:18:08] <XXCoder1> *poopy
[03:18:15] <MrFluffy> sheep?
[03:19:06] <furrywolf> you can try building a grass-gas generator and see if it'll run a motor... it'd be like a wood gas generator, but would have to deal with lots of moisture in the fuel source...
[03:19:30] <XXCoder1> grass gas probably but pretty lot work
[03:20:03] <MrFluffy> they harvest methane from waste matter here on a macro scale on farms now
[03:20:12] <furrywolf> feed the grass to a horse; use horse to pull reel mower.
[03:20:38] <archivist> s1dev, are AC rotating Z then try XYACZ
[03:22:20] <s1dev> archivist: the rotary axes are stacked ontop of the linear ones, pretty much if you took a 3 axis machine and added 2 rotary axes to the spindle
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[03:27:19] <s1dev> archivist: why can't I do XYZCA since it's specified in the config as a 5 axis machine, it assumes that the 5th axis is B
[03:27:42] <Tom_itx> how would i adjust the scale between the spindle and z axis on sync moves?
[03:27:50] <Tom_itx> z is a stepper
[03:28:10] <Tom_itx> somewhere it seems the relationship between the two is off by quite a bit
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[03:30:15] <s1dev> archivist: and crashes if a C axis is specified
[03:31:03] <archivist> what version are you running
[03:31:32] <s1dev> 2.7pre6
[03:31:46] <MrFluffy> Tom_itx: its a fixed function of the pitch and the drive ratio defined in your ini file by the SCALE isnt it?
[03:32:25] <archivist> s1dev, should be documented somewhere how this works, bug if it crashes
[03:32:46] <furrywolf> crashing is always a bug
[03:32:49] <Tom_itx> MrFluffy, i'm not sure.
[03:32:58] <Tom_itx> i have the axis scale set correctly
[03:33:16] <Tom_itx> i am currently adding code for motion sync for rigid tapping
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[03:33:27] <Tom_itx> just finished the spindle pwm code
[03:34:05] <archivist> s1dev, geometry in http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html
[03:35:19] <archivist> s1dev, 2.7 bugs need finding very soon as about to be released
[03:35:26] <Tom_itx> it looks pretty crappy right now but here's my current config (extra test code etc left in): http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/sherline.hal
[03:35:49] <Tom_itx> this is on 2.7 btw
[03:36:39] <Tom_itx> the Z axis seems to move way too slow for the spindle rpms
[03:37:00] <Tom_itx> no hardware hooked up but watching the DRO etc on the screen
[03:37:17] <Tom_itx> control is being bench tested with the spindle wired to it
[03:37:58] <MrFluffy> Tom_itx: sorry I misunderstood your question. Its late I need to sleep Im afraid
[03:38:17] <MrFluffy> gnite all, or good morning rather.
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[03:43:59] <Tom_itx> in order to get the spindle rpm close to the commanded speed the scale on it had to be quite high imo
[03:44:47] <Tom_itx> i don't know if that affects the sync motion or not or if it goes from the actual encoder rpm
[03:45:00] <Tom_itx> also the encoder is quadrature
[03:52:53] <Tom_itx> 500cpr with scale set to 2000 for quad
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[04:02:37] <_methods> +
[04:03:45] <Tom_itx> some scale is off but i can't seem to find it.
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[04:11:23] * furrywolf curls up and yawns
[04:23:56] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
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[05:08:58] <Computer_Barf_Up> so I want to start a build thread and am not sure If i should post at cnczone , practical machinist , or somehwere else
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[05:13:27] Computer_Barf_ho is now known as Technoid-Home
[05:16:09] <XXCoder1> Technoid-Home: or just new blog page
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[06:47:11] <Deejay> moin
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[07:06:57] <Technoid-Home> -hey
[07:07:17] <Technoid-Home> computer_barf here reincarnated
[07:08:15] <XXCoder1> yo
[07:09:17] <Technoid-Home> looking at 3d printed power supply mounts
[07:16:02] <XXCoder1> or print one? lol
[07:16:04] <XXCoder1> sorry
[07:16:17] <XXCoder1> I remember this cnc router page
[07:16:26] <XXCoder1> guy made cnc router then used it to make parts for it
[07:16:30] <Technoid-Home> no i mean , st's for something that would be appropriate to my needs
[07:17:20] <Technoid-Home> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:292306
[07:17:40] <XXCoder1> thts pretty nice
[07:18:10] <Technoid-Home> yes its nice concept but unfortunantly the wrong orientation for my needs
[07:18:38] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: YEEEEEEEEES!!!!
[07:18:57] <XXCoder1> ?
[07:19:08] <XXCoder1> hmm cant alter it tech?
[07:19:32] <Technoid-Home> I think I will model up some like that so I can mount mine with the largest face down
[07:19:48] <Technoid-Home> but good to have a general reference point for what to model
[07:19:56] <XXCoder1> I bet
[07:20:01] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Drilled out the gas cap, taped it with a plumbing fitting, and even without oring, it's air frickin tight, and barb orientation is away from the handle =)
[07:20:16] <XXCoder1> nice work
[07:20:53] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Thanks. Not bad for a $6 solution that even Honda doens't offer.
[07:21:02] <Technoid-Home> I also have a kelling 48v power supply that I'll mound similarily
[07:21:25] <XXCoder1> I got no instructions for my cnc router so I gonna figure it out lol
[07:21:37] <XXCoder1> and gonna figure how to mount my edge router to it
[07:21:40] <XXCoder1> so it will work
[07:22:05] <Technoid-Home> I plan on building a cnc router but started with the mill so I can use the mill to make parts for the router table
[07:22:55] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: you load da tooling. you load da material, you load da gcode, you press go, and RUN LIKE HELL!!!
[07:23:21] <XXCoder1> I'd rather do it at low speed then confirm it stops at right spot.
[07:23:44] <Jymmm> cough*WUSS*cough
[07:25:04] <XXCoder1> lol
[07:25:19] <XXCoder1> man some webcomics is so slow
[07:25:28] <XXCoder1> I havent read one for 7 months. 4 new comic
[07:25:48] <XXCoder1> not 4 new stories or "books". just literal 4 pages
[07:25:56] <Technoid-Home> man and I get pissed waiting a month for the walking dea
[07:25:58] <Technoid-Home> d
[07:26:18] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: This is what ppl have been buying... http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-EU2000i-GENERATOR-EXTENDED-RUN-FUEL-CAP-SYSTEM/181073850050?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29904%26meid%3Dfb2aaecc3ae74620a619170fc30a5d5f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D181616314834&rt=nc
[07:26:25] <Technoid-Home> then again thats the only comic I've ever been motiviated to read
[07:26:33] <XXCoder1> Technoid-Home: I have group called long term comics. I save some comics there fprvarious reasons
[07:26:46] <XXCoder1> some has hard to follow plot, so its better to take it in longer terms
[07:26:52] <Technoid-Home> hey is there an alternate name for limit switches
[07:26:54] <XXCoder1> some just is so slow
[07:27:07] <XXCoder1> 30 bucks jeez
[07:27:19] <Technoid-Home> you know the switches with the little metal lever
[07:27:26] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: The facotry PLASTIC cap is that much
[07:27:29] <XXCoder1> yeah dunno alternate names
[07:27:37] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: This is what I bought http://www.ebay.com/itm/391070488025
[07:27:42] <XXCoder1> Jymmm: reminds me of this little nut for my van window
[07:27:52] <XXCoder1> ebay was at $10 and $3 shipping
[07:27:57] <XXCoder1> I thought it was nuts
[07:27:58] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: The factory cap has a on/off for air inlet
[07:28:11] <XXCoder1> till I checked dealer. its $25 bucks $15 shipped
[07:28:19] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: screw the outragious shipping fees
[07:28:21] <XXCoder1> I got ebay one for less than dealer shipping price
[07:28:31] <XXCoder1> indeed
[07:28:34] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: eeeesh
[07:28:58] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: AND... I can remove that and return the cap back to it's original config.
[07:29:01] <XXCoder1> yeah its so nuts a single (admitting odd) nut is that expensive
[07:29:31] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: I'd of hit the junk yard and grabs a handful of em
[07:29:40] <Jymmm> then sell em on ebay =)
[07:29:46] <XXCoder1> junkyard? $25 bucks for whole windpw
[07:29:53] <XXCoder1> cant buy just nut
[07:30:09] <XXCoder1> ironically STILL cheaper than dealer
[07:30:20] <Jymmm> lol
[07:30:41] <Jymmm> The intank fuel pump... $400 from deal
[07:30:43] <Jymmm> er
[07:30:58] <Jymmm> found it on ebay for $22 brand new
[07:31:07] <XXCoder1> insane
[07:31:19] <Jymmm> auto parts store wanted $120
[07:31:32] <Jymmm> $105 to $120
[07:31:46] <XXCoder1> more extreme one was $900 for radator, plus few hundred more for install
[07:32:01] <XXCoder1> usual shop wanted just $120 + another $100 for install
[07:32:09] <Jymmm> dealer wanted $600 to install the pump
[07:32:15] <XXCoder1> I literally laughed at his face
[07:32:28] <XXCoder1> from what I understand, deaf laugh is strange
[07:32:37] <Jymmm> hahaha
[07:33:28] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: oh that milled cap, it still doesn't have any fitting or valve either
[07:33:42] <XXCoder1> fun
[07:34:06] <Technoid-Home> watch out for the stealership
[07:35:05] <XXCoder1> lol nice one
[07:35:12] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Now, I can just drop a fuel line into a gas can. no having to fumble with it or fill it
[07:35:13] <XXCoder1> gonna remember that
[07:37:16] <Jymmm> HAHA... When I had to fuck with replacing the fuel pump, I replaced the fuel filter (just in case). I kept that filter too, it's clean and huge. and might now be part on my gen setup =)
[07:40:47] <Jymmm> WTH.... I didn't know you could use these type of connectors on fuel lines... http://www.autozone.com/fuel-delivery/fuel-line-connector/dorman-fuel-line-connector/ford/expedition-2wd/2001/8-cylinders-w-4-6l-efi/548275_0_0/
[07:41:10] <XXCoder1> convient I guess
[07:41:36] <Jymmm> for a quick release, maybe?
[07:42:47] <Jymmm> Ah, more realistic http://justgastanks.com/images/tus_10_fue_lin_qui_con.jpg
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[09:57:22] <Crom> dang arduino IDE
[09:57:48] <Crom> it doesn't handle multiple arduino hooked up at the same time well
[09:57:56] <Crom> 3 times I'
[09:58:40] <Crom> ve had to go back and upload the code to the other one, and reset the port again and upload the other file back to the arduino which shouldn't have gotten the new code
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[10:12:09] <renesis> ha @ multiple arduino project
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[12:01:06] <malcom2073> I never understood why the ardino "IDE" was never developed into an actual IDE, rather than just a shitty text editor with an upload option
[12:01:30] <cpresser> malcom2073: to keep it easy. thats the basic idea with arduino.
[12:02:22] <malcom2073> cpresser: The main complaint I hear from people when helping them get started with arduino is about the IDE being not easy
[12:02:38] <malcom2073> Most people used to things like MSVC, eclipse, etc heh
[12:03:08] <malcom2073> Hmm ther's an idea, eclipse, I wonder how hard that would be to set up
[12:03:45] <TekniQue> should have just used Eclipse
[12:03:55] <TekniQue> rather than bothering with this shitty text editor
[12:04:20] <TekniQue> but Arduino is not aimed at programmers
[12:04:23] <cpresser> malcom2073: well, then you are not the target audience for arduino. get a real uC board then, and a real IDE
[12:04:53] <malcom2073> cpresser: It seems so, shame since I use them so much
[12:05:03] <cpresser> afaik, there is a eclipse arduino plugin.
[12:05:08] <malcom2073> Indeed, just found that
[12:05:42] * cpresser prefers vim, ctags, gbd, makefile for uC development :P
[12:08:18] <malcom2073> cpresser: Your credability just went out the window :P
[12:09:32] <cpresser> malcom2073: but i got +2 nerd-credit?
[12:09:58] <malcom2073> cpresser: I suppose? Unsure, I don't get nerd-credit so I don't think I'm qualified to give it heh
[12:11:03] <cpresser> i once did a customer-project wor atmel-arm-cpus using the atmel-studio. it took me 2days to figure out how to use the gui
[12:11:52] <cpresser> so i rather stick with stuff/tools i am fluent with
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[15:35:34] <cpresser> torque-mode-tuning-question: my axis slowly creeps away when there is no motion. P and I term done seem to have any influence on the behaviour at all. so far, only D is set at 0.05, all other paramters are zero
[15:35:53] <cpresser> any hints on how to eliminate the creeping?
[15:38:08] <pcw_home> P term should eliminate it unless theres an encoder issue (does the DRO drift?)
[15:38:57] <cpresser> pcw_home: yes, the DRO does drift
[15:39:04] <cpresser> so does ferror
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[15:39:29] * cpresser did increase P up to 100000, but i cant see any change
[15:40:11] <pcw_home> Hmm that doesn't make sense, take a look at the PID output vs error
[15:41:19] <pcw_home> any sizeable error and a huge P term and you should get full torque to correct the error
[15:41:25] <cpresser> let me check..
[15:41:33] <pcw_home> (and massive oscillations)
[15:42:15] <pcw_home> seems like the loop is not closed
[15:45:01] <cpresser> it seems like the tuning-tool doesnt change pid.a.Pgain
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[15:45:48] <cpresser> i added that pin to halscope. and i expect that value to change as soon as i push the test-button in the tuning-tool
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[15:46:10] <pcw_home> you mean calibrate?
[15:46:14] <cpresser> yes
[15:48:23] <pcw_home> It works for me (you can hit refresh to see the current value)
[15:48:58] <cpresser> i am not sure why that isnt working. ill do some more tests
[15:51:16] <pcw_home> a basic test is disable the drive, setup PID with just P
[15:51:17] <pcw_home> start linuxcnc and turn the motor shaft, and trace the PID input,output
[15:51:19] <pcw_home> and physical output voltage
[15:52:05] <pcw_home> and ferror
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[16:14:32] <Tom_itx> ok, i've got spindle-at-speed and spindle synchronized motion working however it looks like the scale between the spindle and Z axis are off by quite a bit. i tried the rigid tap demo code and the distance to go never got there. it seemed that Z was creeping along in comparison to the spindle turns
[16:14:54] <Tom_itx> all observed on the DRO screen, no live hardware yet
[16:15:05] <Tom_itx> except the spindle and encoder
[16:18:21] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/sherline.hal
[16:18:35] <Tom_itx> most of the related code is near the bottom if anyone wants to look
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[16:27:48] <Tom_itx> i hardcoded the at-speed code temporarily
[16:28:45] <Tom_itx> the cheap sherline spindle isn't stable enough to use that on i think
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[16:46:22] <furrywolf> %$#%#$!!!!!
[16:46:49] <furrywolf> I just spent the last two hours carefully turning a replacement bushing for my screw gun. pull it out of the fixture... and it's cracked.
[16:47:09] <furrywolf> and warped
[16:47:20] <Tom_itx> always make a spare
[16:47:56] <furrywolf> the spare would have the same problem
[16:48:09] <furrywolf> all I can seem to do is smear rather than cut
[16:49:23] <furrywolf> the only cutter I have is a harbor freight 60 degree brazed carbide, that was dull from the factory.
[16:50:06] <furrywolf> and on this bronze, I can't get a good cut out of it.
[16:50:44] <SpeedEvil> sharpen the carbide
[16:50:50] <furrywolf> tried shimming it to tilt it both up and down, no change
[16:50:57] <SpeedEvil> Or use steel
[16:51:05] <Roguish> the bronze may have a bunch of oil, or graphite, or something slippery in it.
[16:51:09] <furrywolf> with what? my angle grinder? plus, with shakey paws, I have very, very bad luck hand-grinding things.
[16:51:31] <furrywolf> I don't have any HSS cutters or blanks
[16:51:37] <SpeedEvil> Diamond whetstone?
[16:51:46] <SpeedEvil> dremel?
[16:52:45] <furrywolf> and the fucking bushing cost $2, too!
[16:54:05] <Tom_itx> take it to your local bearing supply and see if they have a bushing that size
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[16:56:09] <furrywolf> I really, really fucking hate working hard on something, doing everything carefully, and having it be an utter failure.
[16:56:38] <Tom_itx> so try again or give up
[16:56:43] <furrywolf> when I do a half-assed job on something and it doesn't work, whatever... but I tried way too hard on this.
[16:57:50] <furrywolf> trying again with the same methods, tooling, and materials will result in the same problem.
[16:58:14] <furrywolf> brb
[16:59:39] <CaptHindsight> hand lap
[16:59:47] <Tom_itx> oilite is hard to machine too
[16:59:57] <Tom_itx> not really meant to be
[17:01:10] <CaptHindsight> seeing pics would help
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[17:15:55] <harold> hey guys
[17:16:01] <harold> http://i.imgur.com/peRLskc.png
[17:16:04] <harold> i'm trying to.. make that drawing in solidworks, but it keeps drawing those annoying lines
[17:16:30] <harold> (the third straight lines... around the circle) can't figure out how to get rid of them, any idea?
[17:18:26] <_methods> turn off center marks
[17:18:47] <_methods> or right click on them and hide
[17:19:45] <cpresser> pcw_home: found the issue.. "deadband" is in machine units, not encoder-counts
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[17:21:34] <pcw_home> Ahh a _large_ deadband means you are basically open loop
[17:22:33] <pcw_home> Note: for torque mode drives, running the servo thread as fast as possible will get better performance
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[17:28:51] <cpresser> pcw_home: already read that.. servo thread runs with 4khz now.
[17:29:17] <cpresser> pcw_home: my CPU is a Celeron @2.8Ghz. would you recommend RTAI or uspace?
[17:30:22] <pcw_home> for a PCI card, RTAI is probably better (lower jitter)
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[17:30:56] <cpresser> its a 5i25
[17:30:58] <pcw_home> So the stock wheezy linuxcnc ISO should be good
[17:31:06] <cpresser> yep, i am running that right now
[17:31:30] <cpresser> tuning is getting better, now that deadband is set correct :)
[17:32:41] <pcw_home> for torque mode tuning I first set a small P then see how much D term I can use (D is basically the velocity loop gain)
[17:33:03] <pcw_home> ( D term )
[17:33:30] * SpeedEvil is having one of those 'I hope someone else bids on this so I'm not tempted' moments.
[17:33:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myford-ML7-lathe-/231544525506?
[17:34:30] <pcw_home> Then P and then FF2, and finally I
[17:35:33] <cpresser> wokring on FF2 right now.. its looking good already :)
[17:41:20] <pcw_home> Theoretically FF1 is not of much use for torque mode drives
[17:42:28] <pcw_home> (since the PI current loop in the drive already compensates for velocity/BEMF)
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[17:45:38] <furrywolf> grr. between my lack of tooling, money, and sufficient skills to make do without those first two, this project isn't working.
[17:49:16] <furrywolf> this cutter does not seem able to make a cut in bronze. thus, I need more cutters. I'll probably need to grind them, which I fucking suck at.
[17:49:52] <archivist> use sharp HSS or carbon steel
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[17:50:14] <archivist> carbide like that is better for steel
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[17:51:00] <furrywolf> the only place to get tools locally is harbor freight, which has a remarkably small assortment. so if I need some hss blanks, it adds a week to the project.
[17:51:43] <archivist> a bit of a broken twist drill
[17:51:44] <furrywolf> HF has an indexable carbide set that looks like a lot better quality than the brazed carbide I have.
[17:51:49] <furrywolf> is round.
[17:52:20] <archivist> really not too hard to make a holder for round bar
[17:53:19] <furrywolf> HF claims to have a hss blank set, but I haven't seen it at the local store.
[17:53:22] <archivist> a hole and a clamping screw of some sort
[17:54:05] <furrywolf> that would mean making one of the milling machines work...
[17:54:40] <furrywolf> the sherline is gummed up solid, and the shoptask has the electrics loose stacked on top of and around it, where swarf falls. still need to build an enclosure.
[17:54:52] <furrywolf> sherline is easier to fix. heh.
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[17:57:10] <Tom_itx> no takers on my sync scale problem?
[17:57:38] <furrywolf> I have no idea how to fix your problem. lol
[18:00:34] <furrywolf> I'll poke at your spindle settings if you make a bushing for me. :P
[18:05:48] <roycroft> furrywolf: enco ship out of reno - you can probably get tooling from them in a day
[18:05:56] <roycroft> i get tooling from them in two days
[18:06:29] <roycroft> and they ship same day if you order in the morning
[18:06:31] <furrywolf> nothing here takes less than three days unless you pay for fedex overnight.
[18:06:42] <roycroft> i don't believe that
[18:06:52] <SpeedEvil> Grinding a flat on a rod allows you to clamp it pretty securely
[18:06:52] <furrywolf> it takes three days to go from san francisco to here. it takes two to go within the same town.
[18:07:18] <roycroft> but even if that were the case, 3 days is a lot less than a week
[18:07:23] <furrywolf> they closed our local mail sorting center and moved sorting to medford, oregon. so even a letter down the block goes to oregon and back, two days later.
[18:07:38] <roycroft> enco ship ups
[18:08:05] <roycroft> and when order from them it goes from reno to roseburg in a day, and gets delivered the next day
[18:08:22] <furrywolf> UPS takes a week to go down the block, and will have ran over it with a truck at least twice. I do not purchasing ANYTHING shipped UPS. ever. I am fucking sick of UPS. I will not shop at any store that ships UPS. I will not buy any ebay item that ships UPS.
[18:08:34] <furrywolf> people in here can verify my repeated complaints about UPS. lol
[18:08:41] * roycroft is somehow not surprised at that reaction
[18:09:12] <furrywolf> I pay more to shop at stores that ship anything other than UPS, because I want things on time and in one piece.
[18:09:23] <roycroft> i haven't tracked things closely, but i'd say i have the fewest issues with fedex, the next fewest with ups, and easily the most with usps
[18:09:25] <furrywolf> I have never had an item shipped UPS arrive on time or undamaged.
[18:09:43] <furrywolf> fedex is great, usps is great, ups shouldn't be in business.
[18:09:48] <roycroft> i don't believe that either, unless you have never used ups
[18:10:28] <roycroft> i have had an occasional package damaged by ups
[18:10:36] <furrywolf> let's see, what have I had shipped ups lately... a car stereo got lost (blamed on a train issue), a led light arrived smashed, and my digikey order arrived a week late.
[18:10:51] <roycroft> like once every couple years or so, and i receive shipments from them at least weekly on average
[18:11:03] <roycroft> so maybe 1% damaged
[18:11:07] <furrywolf> the best was a thomas double-wobl compressor that they RAN OVER. tire marks on the box and everything.
[18:11:19] <roycroft> and barring weather issues they always deliver on time
[18:11:30] <roycroft> usps, on the other hand, are consistently late
[18:11:52] <furrywolf> usps occasionally mis-routes packages, but unlike ups, always finds them.
[18:11:54] <roycroft> i just received a priority mail shipment that was fairly time sensitive and it took them two weeks to get it from southern california to me
[18:12:04] <furrywolf> while ups simply vanishes off the face of the earth.
[18:12:13] <roycroft> see, my experience is the exact opposite
[18:12:19] <pcw_home> Tom_itx: Is you spindle scaling set so motion.spindle-revs reads 1.0 per turn?
[18:12:35] <roycroft> i've lost several hundred dollars over the past two years because usps lose things, yet mark them as delivered, so i can't get compensated for the loss
[18:12:58] <roycroft> this is to a po box, not my residence, so you can't say that someone stole the stuff out of my mailbox
[18:13:07] <furrywolf> oh, and UPS's insurance is a scam. they deny EVERY claim. I have not managed to successfully get them to cover a fucking dime.
[18:13:28] <roycroft> well i've had mostly success with all carriers
[18:13:36] <pcw_home> Both Fedex and UPS often seem to drop packages from about 6 feet
[18:13:39] <roycroft> and more problems with usps than any other
[18:13:57] <furrywolf> first they try to bounce you around between departments, one of which says only the sender can file claim, one of which says only the receiver can. then they claim it was improper packaging. then they stop responding.
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[18:14:05] <roycroft> i just shipped a 90lb package via ups
[18:14:28] <taiden> hey all
[18:14:29] <roycroft> i had to get it out the door right away, and could not go get a second, larger box for it and use heaps of styrofoam between the two boxes
[18:14:38] <taiden> i need a way to pattern a gcode file
[18:14:43] <roycroft> i'm usually very good at double boxing heavy things like that
[18:14:52] <taiden> are there any good ways to do this without doing it in my CAM program?
[18:14:57] <roycroft> i just bubble wrapped the item as best i could, and hoped for the best
[18:15:00] <taiden> will be 4x4 grid
[18:15:02] <roycroft> it got delivered just fine by ups
[18:15:04] <furrywolf> once a relative had something _packaged by the ups store_. like everything shipped UPS, it arrived smashed. it was insured. after getting the runaround, again, they claimed it was improper packaging - even though they themselves packaged it. their solution then was to flat out tell my relative that we'd have to sue them if we wanted any money.
[18:15:10] <archivist> taiden, o codes you can loop
[18:15:12] <pcw_home> Years ago I sent a fairly heavy and expensive monitor to a customer, said customer saw the UPS driver kick it out of the truck
[18:15:22] <roycroft> if they had dropped that box even from a slight height it would have damaged the item
[18:15:36] <furrywolf> I've watched ups unload their plane at the local airport. they just push stuff out the cargo door.
[18:15:45] <furrywolf> same way they unload heavy things from their trucks.
[18:15:49] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, net spindle-position motion.spindle-revs <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.01.position
[18:15:53] <roycroft> honestly, ups hate is just like apple hate
[18:15:54] <Tom_itx> is how it's currently set
[18:16:04] <roycroft> it's completly unfounded but makes zealots feel good
[18:16:09] <roycroft> and i have no time for it
[18:16:12] <Tom_itx> which is likely not scaled for 1 rev
[18:16:29] <pcw_home> We've learned to us couriers for shipping our assy kits around
[18:16:30] <furrywolf> roycroft: funny, I'm giving you actual examples of things that actually happened, and you're claiming it's unfounded.
[18:16:32] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure how to do that
[18:16:46] <furrywolf> they told us that if we wanted to see any money from our insured box, we'd have to sue them.
[18:17:27] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, it's a 500cpr quad encoder
[18:17:33] <XXCoder1> I'm glad I just ship plastic stuff lol
[18:17:37] <XXCoder1> or in least, used to
[18:17:45] <Tom_itx> which is 2k in quad mode
[18:18:07] <pcw_home> so is encoder scale for the spindle set to 2000?
[18:18:18] <Tom_itx> i presume so yes
[18:18:50] <Tom_itx> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.01.scale 2000
[18:19:16] <Tom_itx> should it be 500 instead?
[18:19:17] <pcw_home> if so you should be able to turn the spindle by hand and verify that motion.spindle-revs
[18:19:19] <pcw_home> counts up by one each turn
[18:19:19] <furrywolf> roycroft: would you like to explain how these items that arrived damaged or late actually, in fact, arrived intact and on time? or how all the insurance claims they refused to honor were actually paid in full?
[18:19:39] <Tom_itx> i will test that later
[18:20:15] <furrywolf> I need to build spindle encoders, but first I need to afford a 7i76e.
[18:20:35] <pcw_home> it also has to be the proper direction :-)
[18:20:37] <furrywolf> pcw_home: can I attach two spindle encoders to a 7i76e?
[18:21:25] <pcw_home> not easily (you could use one of the expansion connectors though)
[18:21:31] <cpresser> furrywolf: afaik 'not really'. it has one spindle-encoder input, and one handwheel-encoder input. but the handwheel one is only connected via sserial
[18:22:07] <furrywolf> I might just wire a 3pdt relay on one of the output pins and switch it to the right set of sensors.
[18:22:35] <Tom_itx> i'm pretty sure the direction is right
[18:22:47] <pcw_home> the sserial ones might work but have a "fake" index
[18:23:17] <pcw_home> and they are not terribly fast, maybe 25-50 KHz
[18:23:25] <furrywolf> I can't think of many useful applications of having both spindles running at once, and none where I'd need encoders on both at once.
[18:24:29] <Tom_itx> pcw_home will the sync functions clear the index pulse as needed?
[18:24:41] <Tom_itx> i know it's a bidirectional pin
[18:25:00] <pcw_home> index enable is set by motion and cleared by hardware
[18:25:19] <Tom_itx> so the pulse itself clears it?
[18:26:10] <pcw_home> so when index detection is needed motion sets index-enable
[18:26:12] <pcw_home> this "arms" the index detection logic in the hardware
[18:26:30] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[18:27:00] <pcw_home> when the index is detected by the hardware, the drive notices and clears index-enable
[18:27:16] <pcw_home> s/drive/driver/
[18:28:34] <Tom_itx> so not something that needs manual attention other than the index pulse
[18:28:55] <pcw_home> no, its all automatic
[18:29:00] <Tom_itx> ok
[18:29:15] <Tom_itx> i've verified the pulse but only got one pulse but i realized why
[18:29:54] <furrywolf> for rigid tapping, does linuxcnc have a mode where it'll let me manually reverse the spindle? I plan on only having software on/off control, and leaving the stock pair of drum switches for direction.
[18:30:40] <XXCoder1> m00 with comment to reverse direction?
[18:30:41] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, i added relays but put a dead spot between switching modes to save the relay contacts
[18:30:47] <Tom_itx> just a few ms
[18:31:11] <pcw_home> you can test the index logic easily by sets-ing the index-enable signal and then turning the spindle by hand
[18:31:20] <Tom_itx> just enough to allow the relays to switch
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[18:31:44] <Tom_itx> yeah, i just checked it on my logic analyser
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[18:32:06] <furrywolf> I'll need it to stop the spindle, wait for me to wander over to the machine and reverse it, then unpause it, then it backs out of the hole, then it stops the spindle again, then I reverse it again, then I unpause it again...
[18:32:34] <Tom_itx> sync will wait for the spindle to turn
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[18:32:53] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: heh sounds like manual tapping would be easier option
[18:32:59] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure about the rigid tapping cycle how it works...
[18:33:19] <archivist> it knows how to reverse
[18:33:50] <Tom_itx> but will it wait for a stopped spindle?
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[18:34:55] <pcw_home> wait till spindle speed is near 0
[18:35:08] <Tom_itx> ok about ready to test this again
[18:35:09] <pcw_home> (using near comp)
[18:36:01] <Tom_itx> i coded the near comp but i think the sherline spindle is too cheap to work with it
[18:36:11] <Tom_itx> unless maybe if i use PID
[18:36:32] <Tom_itx> especially at low speeds
[18:37:00] <furrywolf> XXCoder1: one of these days I'll have a machine with a shiny vfd-controlled spindle. this machine is not it.
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[18:37:12] <XXCoder1> indeed
[18:37:26] <XXCoder1> my router will have shop tool, edge router lol
[18:37:28] <furrywolf> it has capacitor start induction motors, which are not amenable to variable speed.
[18:37:36] <XXCoder1> but evenually it will have proper spidle
[18:38:15] <Tom_itx> it works better if all the cables are plugged in too...
[18:39:14] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, i get 1 rev per turn
[18:39:49] <Tom_itx> and negative when turned backwards
[18:39:59] <pcw_home> OK well thats 1/2 the battle
[18:40:22] <Tom_itx> heh
[18:41:17] <Tom_itx> i could hook the hardware up but i'd like to verify it's in the ballpark before i do
[18:41:33] <Tom_itx> the spindle & encoder is hooked up
[18:41:38] <Tom_itx> just not the axis
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[18:41:54] * furrywolf doesn't think it should require a battle!
[18:42:50] <pcw_home> no, but there are a lot of pieces and they all have to be right...
[18:43:11] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/sherline.hal
[18:43:22] <Tom_itx> most of the spindle stuff is near the bottom if you wanna look
[18:43:31] <Tom_itx> it needs some cleanup...
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[18:59:21] <furrywolf> guess what I just learned? I suck even worse at cutting a lathe cutter out of round stock than square stock.
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[19:01:25] <zeeshan> ??
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[19:01:50] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I need a hss lathe cutter. I have no hss blanks. I started with a broken twist drill.
[19:02:07] <zeeshan> do you know the angles? :P
[19:02:23] <FinboySlick> Grind the drill square ;)
[19:02:27] <zeeshan> you dont have to
[19:02:31] <zeeshan> just start with the side rake
[19:02:37] <zeeshan> then end relief
[19:02:43] <zeeshan> then the back rake
[19:02:53] <furrywolf> zeeshan: on a mostly unrelated topic, coincidence is funny. we were talking about annular cutters, and then... http://fw.bushytails.net/yardsalecutters01.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/yardsalecutters02.jpg he said there was 10, but I count 9 and a roughing endmill. close enough. :)
[19:03:07] <zeeshan> nice
[19:03:08] <MrFluffy> mills grind into acceptable lathe tooling with a tiny bit of work
[19:03:09] <zeeshan> how much!
[19:03:10] * furrywolf never remembers the angles, and just grinds things until they look pointy. (did I mention sucking?)
[19:03:15] <furrywolf> $50. :(
[19:03:23] <zeeshan> thats cheap for them
[19:03:41] <furrywolf> yes, it is. which is why I spent money that could have gone to useful things like food.
[19:03:59] <furrywolf> they're about $50-$100 each for those sizes
[19:04:02] * Tom_itx pokes zeeshan with a sharp stick
[19:04:10] <zeeshan> hi tom
[19:04:29] <Tom_itx> no round bronze parts yet?
[19:04:36] <zeeshan> will start working on it in a bit
[19:04:40] <zeeshan> was a late night :)
[19:04:49] <Tom_itx> i'm about 95% to rigid tapping
[19:05:11] <Tom_itx> i think the scale is off a bit
[19:05:12] <zeeshan> nice
[19:05:15] <furrywolf> http://www.amazon.com/Hougen-4-Inch-Diameter-Rotabroach-2-Inch/dp/B003LY4EIG there's the only one with specs I can read from the image instead of having to get them back out. lol
[19:05:37] <MrFluffy> ignoring the fact that the stepper is held with a kant twist clamp... I sort of got my 4th axis spindle moved along http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38794-1/4th_axis.jpg
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[19:06:14] <MrFluffy> but, what are my options for improving holding power when its not moving? Im not very happy with the amount of effort to shift it when the stepper is clamping the spindle stationary
[19:06:18] <furrywolf> actually, that's not the right one. the amazon one is the plain hss, mine is the cobalt.
[19:06:45] <zeeshan> dont you have a mag drill
[19:07:09] <Tom_itx> MrFluffy, that just looks like standard testing procedures there
[19:07:20] <MrFluffy> Im thinking a actuated brake...
[19:07:22] <furrywolf> yes, I do.
[19:07:32] <furrywolf> hence why I need annular cutters. :P
[19:07:45] <zeeshan> nice
[19:08:46] <MrFluffy> I wired it in series for better torque too, I wonder if Ive messed the driver dip settings up...
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[19:10:28] <Tom_itx> MrFluffy, where did you get those pulleys?
[19:10:29] * furrywolf needs more practice grinding cutters
[19:10:44] <furrywolf> and I don't even have more bronze to test them on, or more stock to try another bushing from.
[19:11:28] <furrywolf> http://www.airgas.com/product/Tools-%26-Hardware/MRO-%26-Plant-Maintenance/Magnetic-Drill-Cutters-%26-Cutter-Accessories/p/HOU12248 that's the largest cutter in the box... how the hell do they charge so much?
[19:11:34] <MrFluffy> the alloy one came from simply bearings or bolton hydraulics in the uk, I forget which but whoever was cheapest, but the smaller steel one I bought a job lot of about 12 from someone for a good price and am slowly working my way through the bag...
[19:11:57] <MrFluffy> its copper grease from when I was tapping the grub screw on the smaller one, not rust
[19:12:05] <MrFluffy> I couldnt find the moly...
[19:12:07] <Tom_itx> looking for a source for largerish pulleys
[19:12:11] <Tom_itx> in the US
[19:12:18] <Tom_itx> i know about sdp-si
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[19:12:57] <MrFluffy> any industrial supply house will sell you htd pulleys I imagine, I just get these posted because its easier than a 100 mile trip into town for me
[19:13:16] <Tom_itx> what series are those?
[19:14:01] <_methods> Tom_itx: you check boston gear?
[19:14:04] <furrywolf> htd? good luck with that. I gave up finding metric pullies in the US.
[19:14:33] <furrywolf> I wanted 5mm pitch, 12mm bore, 42 tooth. only place I could find was in the uk with ungodly shipping charges.
[19:14:50] <Tom_itx> _methods i need small series pulleys but one needs a 32mm hole
[19:14:57] <MrFluffy> theyre htd irrc, I was going to do the varihead on the bridgeport with them but then realized a toothed belt was a boo boo and used a big V pulley instead
[19:15:03] <Tom_itx> i dunno if GT2 would be strong enough but probably
[19:15:35] <MrFluffy> that alloy one has a 35mm hole, but it came with a 10mm
[19:15:54] <MrFluffy> I just cut the softjaws in the lathe and opened it up
[19:16:13] <MrFluffy> then used a toolbit in the toolpost as a keyway cutter with the spindle off to do the keyway
[19:17:11] <MrFluffy> I was going to do all sorts of fancy stuff, edm the steel one out to have two flats in the centre then I just thought its JFDI time and did them in the lathe by hand.
[19:17:39] <furrywolf> hrmm, I cut about ten degrees of back rake, but my chart says I should have done 0 degrees. oh well. my last attempt was ~0 and sucked horribly, so maybe this will work better. lol
[19:21:53] <MrFluffy> Tom_itx: gates have a program you can run any numbers in and it will tell you the pulley hub combos if you want to do it the slightly expensive but quick way
[19:22:00] <MrFluffy> it even spits out the belt part numbers
[19:22:13] <MrFluffy> design-o-flex, I think they have a online version now too
[19:23:49] <MrFluffy> here :- http://www.gates.com/catalogs-and-resources/resources/repository/engineering-business-applications/design-flex
[19:24:13] <MrFluffy> then just ring up supply house with part numbers in hand
[19:26:24] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myford-ML7-lathe-on-Myford-stand-/271857483735?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4bf7ffd7
[19:26:33] <SpeedEvil> I am required/encouraged to sell my Myford ML7 lathe. The good news is no-one has died; however, my lovely wife seems to think that having four lathes is too many. Obviously I do not agree but I am prepared to agree that it isn't worth a divorce so I have said I will sell one. Hmm. I wonder if she was joking?
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[19:27:09] <XXCoder1> 4 lathes?
[19:27:12] <MrFluffy> its her or the lathe? are you going to miss her? :)
[19:27:42] <SpeedEvil> (not mine)
[19:27:57] <XXCoder1> heh machine shop I work at has 10 lathes
[19:28:40] <MrFluffy> great advert, but are you in the uk and after a myford? theres one on mig-welding for 50 pounds collect only, or there was last night anyway
[19:28:50] <Tom_itx> wb JT-Shop
[19:29:09] <JT-Shop> thanks
[19:29:16] <JT-Shop> nap time lol
[19:29:21] <SpeedEvil> MrFluffy: yes, and sort-of
[19:29:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myford-ML7-lathe-/231544525506? - who will deliver to me
[19:30:53] <MrFluffy> SpeedEvil: its only a ml4 though. but its 50. Im almost ashamed to post the link but its 50 quid. If I was in the uk Id be going to get it as a fancy pair of bench centres for truing let alone a lathe... http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/myford-ml4-lathe-spares-or-repair.54499/
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[19:32:57] <SpeedEvil> Where is it?
[19:33:02] <SpeedEvil> Transport is an issue here.
[19:33:06] <MrFluffy> pembrookeshire in wales
[19:33:08] <SpeedEvil> - no legally operable vehicle
[19:33:13] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[19:33:18] <SpeedEvil> >500 miles.
[19:33:33] <JT-Shop> it's only illegal if you get caught
[19:33:37] <MrFluffy> have sprinter, but its 300 pound in diesel and ferry tolls for me
[19:34:01] <SpeedEvil> JT-Shop: also operable operable, but that is the smaller issue.
[19:34:57] <MrFluffy> theres landylift etc advertise on homeworkshop.co.uk, never used them but it could be a option for a nice one
[19:36:43] <SpeedEvil> And yes - in practice, I can't afford a lathe at the moment.
[19:37:00] <SpeedEvil> The above falls into the 'if I spend all my available cash I could get it' range.
[19:37:19] <SpeedEvil> But would remove this years roof-fixing money
[19:38:14] <JT-Shop> that's not good if the roof need fixin
[19:38:36] <MrFluffy> Ive got a cat ladder you can borrow? I just stand in the bucket of my jcb now instead :)
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[19:38:57] <MrFluffy> strings off down to the bucket controls for remote control
[19:40:34] <MrFluffy> I am jesting about the strings, in case you are wondering.
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[19:43:29] <MrFluffy> I wonder if I can fudge the 4th axis holding torque problem by just using a even bigger stepper
[19:43:51] <MrFluffy> I should have compounded the drivetrain...
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[20:02:30] <SpeedEvil> Yay - successfully resisted lathe.
[20:02:54] <XXCoder1> yup you had a good roll
[20:03:00] <XXCoder1> congats
[20:19:55] <MrFluffy> Ugh, 16N/m holding torque at the spindle, its only 10lb/ft. What was I thinking...
[20:20:25] <XXCoder1> part got lifted off?
[20:20:44] <MrFluffy> no, its the holding torque for the 4th axis spindle
[20:20:57] <MrFluffy> I was relying on the stepper to hold it between moves
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[20:24:29] <XXCoder1> doh not very strong
[20:24:54] <MrFluffy> time to dig round junk box and do some emergency thinking... aircon em brake or something.
[20:24:55] <cpresser> i cant seem to find documentation or an example for scarakins. does someone have a link for me?
[20:26:56] <Tom_itx> https://github.com/araisrobo/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/kinematics/scarakins.c
[20:27:02] <Tom_itx> ?
[20:27:58] <Tom_itx> http://www.imac.unavarra.es/~cnc/GIT/emc2-dev/src/emc/kinematics/scarakins.c
[20:28:58] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/kins.9.html
[20:29:17] <XXCoder1> gonna love man pages
[20:29:21] <XXCoder1> so manly. :P
[20:29:30] <Tom_itx> pickins are kinda thin for that
[20:29:46] <XXCoder1> some of man page info really is awesome. I wish all man pages was like that
[20:30:08] * cpresser was hoping there was some 'real' docu, not the source code
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[20:31:28] <MrFluffy> the sourcecode is documented in the header section pretty nice
[20:31:57] <cpresser> yes.. but i am not clear how the HAL-Pins are named, or if i need to add a function to the servo thread
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[20:34:57] <MrFluffy> cpresser: did you find this when you was searching ? https://github.com/sliptonic/gypsy
[20:36:51] <cpresser> MrFluffy: that helps a little. thy
[20:38:15] <pcw_home> one helpful thing is to print out all the hal pins and parameters so you have a copy-paste donor file
[20:43:22] <pcw_home> (with linuxcnc running)
[20:43:24] <pcw_home> halcmd show pin > pinlist.txt
[20:43:25] <pcw_home> halcmd show param parmlist.txt
[20:43:48] <pcw_home> halcmd show param > parmlist.txt
[20:43:50] <pcw_home> I mean
[20:44:01] <cpresser> my 'modmot' module does not have the 'kins' parameter... perhaps thats a 2.7 thing
[20:44:09] * cpresser needs to check the gitlogs
[20:53:00] <MrFluffy> car aircon pump em brake and link to motion.spindle-brake, sounds a plan, jfdi time. gnite.
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[20:55:04] <Deejay> gn8
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[20:56:14] <cpresser> well... scarakins just crashed the machine... z-axis motor-plate is broken :/
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[20:56:50] <Tom_itx> aarg
[20:57:28] <cpresser> damm.. second look: the inner arm is also broken.
[20:57:37] <cpresser> its cast iron... hard to repair :/
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[21:03:08] <cpresser> thats the damage: http://imgur.com/FEaEayr,WuGEGst
[21:04:30] <_methods> ouch
[21:05:24] <Tom_itx> you need to move closer to the ESTOP
[21:05:49] <XXCoder1> man
[21:05:53] <cpresser> i did hit estop, but the machine has lots of momentum :/
[21:05:53] <XXCoder1> thats not good
[21:06:01] <furrywolf> well that sucks. I just tried going to the local hardware store to get another bronze bushing to attempt to turn. big spray-painted "closed" sign, gate chained. note saying they're out of business.
[21:06:28] <cpresser> i dont quite get it, with tivialkins everything was working fine. virtually zero ferror, hard-limits, soft limits
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[21:08:12] <furrywolf> cast iron or cast aluminum?
[21:08:20] <furrywolf> oh, you said cast iron. n/m
[21:08:34] <cpresser> i think its iron, cant say for sure. i am not an expert here
[21:08:39] <XXCoder1> cast iron isnt weldable?
[21:08:47] <XXCoder1> cpresser: easy enough t test
[21:08:51] <XXCoder1> magnetic?
[21:08:55] <XXCoder1> alum sure arent
[21:09:11] <cpresser> XXCoder1: aluminium
[21:09:24] <cpresser> at least: not magnetic
[21:09:33] <furrywolf> people claim to be able to weld cast iron. every time I've asked one of them to demonstrate this remarkable ability, they've always had to be somewhere else.
[21:09:36] <XXCoder1> yeah still few possibilities. not iron though
[21:09:50] <furrywolf> if it's aluminum, get some aluminum brazing rods and a propane torch.
[21:10:10] <furrywolf> and then bolt a reinforcing bracket to it, so it doesn't break again. looks like insufficiently designed to start with.
[21:10:25] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: maybe because while they can, its so tough they cry afterwards? lol jk
[21:10:43] <cpresser> furrywolf: that might work for the motor mount. good idea
[21:11:13] <cpresser> however, the B-Axis arm is bent, need to fix that first
[21:11:26] <XXCoder1> man wish im any good on software lol. I wanna do stuff to my tomtom xt
[21:11:31] <XXCoder1> its useless now
[21:12:15] <furrywolf> I've seen convincing demonstrations of the aluminum brazing rods. don't be fooled by places like harbor freight calling them welding rods - it's brazing. but they do seem to work.
[21:12:20] <archivist> I can personally vouch for http://www.castironwelding.co.uk/
[21:13:11] <archivist> we had steam pipes done, excellent job
[21:15:49] * furrywolf is still waiting for http://www.castironwelding.co.uk/
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[21:15:59] <furrywolf> bloated as fuck site
[21:16:28] <archivist> sites is rather crappy these days, but the work is something else
[21:16:43] <XXCoder1> cast iron welding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IkpAsNDbOo
[21:18:51] <archivist> they build a muffle furnace around the item, get it up to heat over many hours, fusion weld, cool/anneal slowly, hours days
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[21:22:46] <XXCoder1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJlAMmN1hmc
[21:22:50] <XXCoder1> alum cast
[21:23:00] <XXCoder1> overlong and silly intro
[21:27:19] <Tom_itx> yeah preheating cast iron is a must for welding
[21:27:49] <Tom_itx> and slow temp changes
[21:28:17] <Tom_itx> local shop uses sandbags to pack around it while heating / cooling
[21:28:57] <XXCoder1> "colored color codes" lol
[21:29:07] <XXCoder1> gonna love autocaption
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[21:37:38] <gene78> silly q of day, in lathe mode g21 g7 set, touch off is still working on radius for entry?
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[21:40:41] <JT-Shop> gene78, as soon as you start you start to enter a number it tells you radius or diameter
[21:41:28] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop ever messed with rigid tapping?
[21:41:47] <Tom_itx> i'm about 95% there but i think my scale is wrong somewhere
[21:42:16] <cradek> motion.spindle-revs should increase by 1.0 for each turn of the spindle in the m3 direction
[21:42:42] <Tom_itx> motion.spindle-revs increases or decreases by 1.0 each rev depending on the direction
[21:43:05] <Tom_itx> i turned it by hand to check
[21:43:27] <cradek> hmm, then what's the symptom?
[21:44:09] <Tom_itx> well i was using the tap example code for .75" thread 20 tpi and it was taking way to many spindle turns to reach the destination
[21:44:13] <Tom_itx> in fact it never did
[21:44:26] <cradek> what's the g33.1 line
[21:44:29] <Tom_itx> i stopped it
[21:44:39] <Tom_itx> one sec
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[21:46:32] <Tom_itx> G33.1 Z-0.750 K0.05
[21:46:42] <Tom_itx> with S set to 150-200 prior
[21:47:29] <Tom_itx> at 20 tpi it should turn 15 times and reverse
[21:47:41] <Tom_itx> but it turned a good 50 - 100
[21:47:45] <cradek> yep, if in G20 and starting at Z0 that should reverse at motion.spindle-revs at 15
[21:47:46] <Tom_itx> then i stopped it
[21:48:14] <cradek> how do you know it didn't reverse?
[21:48:16] <Tom_itx> i will have to set the control up to test it again
[21:48:26] <Tom_itx> because i was sitting there watching the spindle turn
[21:48:43] <Tom_itx> the axis weren't hooked up but i was watching the DRO
[21:48:48] <cradek> if you program s200 m4 what happens?
[21:48:51] <Tom_itx> that shouldn't matter
[21:49:00] <Tom_itx> it will start in reverse in that case
[21:49:08] <cradek> did you try it?
[21:49:11] <Tom_itx> the fwd rev work
[21:49:15] <Tom_itx> yes i tested it
[21:49:26] <Tom_itx> at many different speeds
[21:49:46] <cradek> hmm
[21:49:55] <Tom_itx> quad encoder with index
[21:50:36] <Tom_itx> i'm not homing the machine and have bypassed that in the ini for now while i'm testing but i wouldn't think that would affect this
[21:51:02] <Tom_itx> the control is on the bench with the spindle hooked to it
[21:51:04] <cradek> I think if your reports are all true, it should be working, so I'm inclined to wonder what I'm not thinking of, or you're trusting old results or misreading something
[21:51:24] <Tom_itx> i will try it once more in a bit
[21:51:26] <cradek> you're saying that you watch the Z DRO go way down less than -0.750 without seeing a reverse?
[21:51:35] <Tom_itx> no, it never got there
[21:51:42] <Tom_itx> distance to go was just creeping along
[21:51:59] <cradek> ok so Z was not decreasing as fast as you expect
[21:52:05] <Tom_itx> exactly
[21:52:20] <cradek> then spindle-revs has got to be wrong
[21:52:31] <Tom_itx> but it's not
[21:52:35] <cradek> please check again, and maybe make a halscope plot of spindle-revs vs Z position
[21:52:37] <Tom_itx> i watched it in hal
[21:52:48] <Tom_itx> i'm not quite sure how to use halscope
[21:52:51] <Tom_itx> but i'll try
[21:53:14] <cradek> are you sure you were in inch mode? .05mm would be a very small pitch
[21:53:19] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:53:27] <Tom_itx> i've never used metric on this
[21:53:31] <cradek> (well it would still just take 15 turns I guess)
[21:54:01] <cradek> Z was defiitely moving, right? just too slowly?
[21:54:03] <Tom_itx> i'll get the control hooked up again here in just a bit
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[21:54:12] <Tom_itx> yes acording to the dro
[21:54:19] <cradek> is this 2.6 or 2.7?
[21:54:28] <Tom_itx> 2.7
[21:54:44] <cradek> do you know which 2.7 is it?
[21:54:44] <Tom_itx> lucid
[21:54:55] <Tom_itx> from the apt update
[21:55:20] <cradek> pretty sure tapping works in 2.7 (but it hasn't always)
[21:55:35] <cradek> I guess please try to make the plot - maybe you have a bug
[21:55:46] <Tom_itx> lemme run the test before you go on a ghost hunt
[21:56:01] <Tom_itx> explain the plot if you don't mind
[21:56:07] <Tom_itx> i've used it maybe once before
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[21:58:43] <cradek> if you know how to run a real scope, you will find it easy to start at 5.1 here: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/tutorial.html#_hooking_up_the_scope_probes
[21:59:08] <Tom_itx> what signals should i watch?
[21:59:18] <Tom_itx> and what should i trigger on?
[21:59:45] <cradek> motion.spindle-revs and something like axis.2.postion-command
[22:00:02] <cradek> not sure about the name of the position pin but you will spot it
[22:01:58] <cradek> you could trigger on position decreasing past 0, or spindle-revs increasing past 0
[22:02:37] <cradek> or motion has a pin that says what line of gcode is running, you could trigger on that
[22:02:51] <atom1> i was gonna mdi it
[22:04:44] <atom1> axis.2.motor-pos-cmd ?
[22:04:59] <cradek> that'll do
[22:05:17] <atom1> now what trigger?
[22:05:43] <atom1> since i'll have the spindle on prior to the rigid tap cmd
[22:07:22] <atom1> it worked this time
[22:07:25] <atom1> it reversed
[22:07:30] <atom1> then stopped
[22:07:36] <gene78> JT on 2.6.7? I haven't noted that.
[22:07:40] * cradek squints at atom1
[22:07:47] <atom1> gremlins
[22:08:16] <gene78> And this sob is stillo crashing randomly
[22:08:42] <cradek> gene78: did you run memtest86 overnight?
[22:08:59] <atom1> cradek, how can i note the revs when it stops at the bottom?
[22:09:10] <atom1> since the spindle is on prior to the G33.1
[22:09:23] <gene78> I will again tonight
[22:09:43] <cradek> if you plot it, you can easily see the minimum
[22:09:55] <cradek> if you put the cursor there it will even show you the value
[22:10:51] <atom1> i've got the trigger set wrong somehow
[22:11:26] <furrywolf> grrrr. the first drill-bit lathe cutter I made worked decently. I then made a second one, that angle-wise looks even better, but it's utterly fucking useless. it can't cut, at all. wtf?
[22:11:49] <furrywolf> no cutting. nada. I have to force it into the surface hard enough I suspect a screwdriver would do a better job.
[22:12:24] <cradek> furrywolf: look at it under magnification. it's probably rubbing under the cutting edge
[22:12:30] <SpeedEvil> Is it backwards/upside-down?
[22:12:39] <cradek> or it's above center
[22:13:04] <cradek> make sure it's on center - pinch a scale between the work and the tool and adjust height so the scale is vertical
[22:13:08] <furrywolf> I think it might be the metal. the other one ground with a nice smooth shiny surface, this one ground with a dull, scratched surface, leaving lips on every grind.
[22:13:12] <atom1> yeah flip the lathe over and try it
[22:13:51] <cradek> ooh, it's pouring, I'm off to see if the gutters are working
[22:13:59] <cradek> one of the simple joys of home maintenance
[22:14:18] <atom1> cradek, it resets the counter when tap cycle starts. it's exactly 15 revs
[22:14:26] <atom1> thanks for putting up with me
[22:15:18] <furrywolf> it also feels completely dull now, even though it was sharp before. wtf
[22:15:21] <atom1> and watching the dro z it's right at .750
[22:16:40] <cradek> well 3 out of 4 gutters ain't bad
[22:16:41] <cradek> sigh
[22:16:48] <furrywolf> yeah, the bronze won. the entire cutting edge is smeared downwards like it was a lip from grinding
[22:17:33] <furrywolf> I used a drill bit where the entire shank was fucked up from spinning in the chuck... I guess I should have taken this as a sign it was crap metal.
[22:17:34] * atom1 has a feeling of accomplishment
[22:19:00] <furrywolf> I don't have too many more broken drill bits, and I don't think I have any more that are too short for me to think their best use is to repoint them.
[22:32:10] <furrywolf> ok, this is probably a stupid question, but do they only harden the flutes of drill bits and not the shank?
[22:33:11] <XXCoder1> I would think they would bake rod then turn it into drill
[22:33:15] <XXCoder1> no idea really
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[22:34:05] <furrywolf> maybe I just got an utter crap drill bit. heh.
[22:36:51] <furrywolf> apparantly that cast iron welding place preheats to 580C / 1076F. that's pretty hot for preheating.
[22:39:01] <furrywolf> I need a much finer stone... the only one I have is really coarse.
[22:39:56] <cradek> furrywolf: wet & dry sandpaper will do in a pinch
[22:40:02] <furrywolf> I have another grinder in storage with better wheels, but it's somewhere buried.
[22:40:21] <furrywolf> this one has a coarse stone on one side and a buffer wheel on the other. heh.
[22:40:46] <furrywolf> but, I got it for $0!
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[22:44:32] <XXCoder1> yeah work uses lot of wet and dry sandpaper
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[22:45:03] <XXCoder1> it worked wonders on fibverglass too
[22:46:12] * cpresser finished the disassembly of the broken scara parts: http://imgur.com/ZcK9VkY
[22:46:17] <renesis> $0 is neat
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[22:47:01] <renesis> cpresser: thats looks really broken
[22:47:16] <XXCoder1> barrels of fiberglass powder, $0
[22:47:31] <cpresser> the positive aspect of this: now its easier to apply a custom paintjob
[22:47:33] <renesis> prob turn that into some sort of crazy composite
[22:47:44] <XXCoder1> cpresser: might be alum yeah
[22:47:45] <renesis> cpresser: yay
[22:47:47] <XXCoder1> that looks familiar
[22:47:56] <renesis> cpresser: do martini racing livery
[22:48:04] <XXCoder1> unless its craplloy
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[22:48:20] <cpresser> ill try the aluminium-weld with 'AL390' and a propane torch
[22:48:32] <XXCoder1> record positions sizes etc first
[22:48:39] <XXCoder1> in case yopu end up milling new one for it lol
[22:48:51] <MrFluffy> some grades wont weld, but you know this already I imagine
[22:49:19] <cpresser> building from scratch will be a pita
[22:49:23] <XXCoder1> yeah what I meant when I said craplloy
[22:49:26] <MrFluffy> I would have a go at it with the tig all the same, but some are unweldable, and some crack during post ops
[22:49:28] <XXCoder1> yeah
[22:50:03] * cpresser is going to ask some experts. i am not good with welding/hard soldering
[22:50:12] <MrFluffy> japanese alloy has lots of horrible contaminents in it, you weld and all this black stuff puddles the top and you have to keep stopping to clean it until it stops bubbling
[22:50:21] <cpresser> better pay some $$ than to totally scrap it
[22:51:21] <MrFluffy> somewhere with a xrf gun to identify it before starting...
[22:52:06] <cpresser> xrf sounds like a good idea, ill make some chips and take them to the university lab :)
[22:52:39] <MrFluffy> if you can get a coupon analysed for free you are streets ahead of most tackling that already
[22:53:07] <XXCoder1> bring some chips too
[22:53:13] <XXCoder1> so they are hapopy too
[22:53:55] <MrFluffy> I have on occasion when welding mystery alloy sawn a bit of it into strips and used that as the filler rod...
[22:54:14] <furrywolf> argh! I don't fucking get it! I'm producing cutters so shitty they can't cut bronze.
[22:54:47] <furrywolf> some combination of my tools and my skills is resulting it utter shit output.
[22:54:57] <cpresser> the bigger piecer seems to be welded already.
[22:55:16] <cpresser> doesnt look like its a single cast, rather two cast parts welded together during production
[22:55:37] <furrywolf> for the motor plate, are the shafts long enough to bolt a piece of 1/4" aluminum plate between it and whatever it bolts to, and put the pulleys 1/4" further down the shafts?
[22:55:50] <XXCoder1> cpresser: that does bode well
[22:56:01] <XXCoder1> if they weld em, they wouldnt use unweldable alloys
[22:56:50] <cpresser> XXCoder1: yes, that fact makes me think its a job someone experienced can do
[22:56:58] <cpresser> so not everything is lost.
[22:57:19] <furrywolf> an experienced TIG welder would be best.
[22:57:21] <cpresser> worst case would be glue + reinforcement-parts screwed on top
[22:57:37] <furrywolf> glue is useless. don't use glue. lol
[22:57:51] <MrFluffy> if you glue it, the person tig welding it will hate you afterwards
[22:57:56] <XXCoder1> yeah use space tape LOL
[22:58:05] <furrywolf> although I'm surprised how brittle that part was.
[22:58:07] <cpresser> furrywolf: i used to work at the university, testing glue bonds. i know what some composites can do
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[22:58:39] <furrywolf> cpresser: and I work in the real world, and know that every repair done with glue becomes two repairs. :)
[22:58:56] <cpresser> furrywolf: okay, one point for you :)
[22:58:57] <XXCoder1> wow you found source of repairs
[23:00:18] <Tom_itx> the bracket looks like a weak design anyway
[23:00:35] <furrywolf> yes, if you want composites, you could very deeply rough up all the surfaces, then wrap it in layers of resin and fiberglass, until you eventually, hopefully, managed to build up a layer of material as strong as the original metal, and hope it somehow adheres to said metal... but polyester resins always break down with time, even if the repair works at first...
[23:01:04] <MrFluffy> Im assuming you ddidnt know whats happened to it to break it, big things might have fell on it or something
[23:01:09] <MrFluffy> something unexpected
[23:01:27] <furrywolf> MrFluffy: it crashed
[23:01:32] <cpresser> Tom_itx: unless you crash the maschine, there is virtually no force applied on that bracket
[23:01:41] <Tom_itx> oh
[23:02:34] <MrFluffy> theres plenty of stress raisers for the gremlins to start in anyway
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[23:02:52] <furrywolf> cpresser: the best repair, if you can do it, is to find places to bolt aluminum plate to. for example, can you bolt an aluminum plate behind the motor bracket, and put the pulleys further down the shafts? is there enough room inside the arm to bolt pieces of plate to the inside on each side? you can also braze or tig weld reinforcing plates over the repair.
[23:04:37] <XXCoder1> just mill new one ;)
[23:04:48] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Colchester-Student-MKII/261873677621?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3Dc8b2f0cd515e424eb48cc4d1f2772fb9%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D261874003350 shiny lathe is shiny. (and reassuringly out of my price range even if it was close to me)
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[23:05:10] <cpresser> furrywolf: interesting idea. but is suspect there is not enought space. i could raise the pulleys a few millimeters
[23:06:12] <SpeedEvil> Polyester resin - properly loaded - is pretty robust and good
[23:06:22] <SpeedEvil> If it's overstressed, then yes, it's an issue
[23:06:31] <cpresser> ill try to find a welding shop first. or two shops :) and ask for their optinion.
[23:06:41] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: unless it's exposed to sunlight, chemical, vibration, atmosphere, or use.
[23:06:47] <MrFluffy> another aspect, when it is repaired, what level of service will it see?
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[23:07:16] <MrFluffy> will you be pushing it as hard as the original design parameters allow, or can you baby it a bit to account for old age and scars?
[23:07:28] <furrywolf> if you do weld it, I suggest welding reinforcements to the arm, inside if you have the space, outside if you don't. just strips of aluminum plate extending past the crack.
[23:08:36] <SpeedEvil> Is the inside of the arm used?
[23:09:06] <cpresser> SpeedEvil: no, there is a pulley inside, driving the C-Axis
[23:09:15] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:10:30] <XXCoder1> even better: both
[23:10:57] <MrFluffy> something else will break then trying to cope with the extra weight ;D
[23:11:10] <XXCoder1> keep going till it dont break lol
[23:11:12] <furrywolf> well, outside is ugly, so you want them inside if you can. :)
[23:11:20] <XXCoder1> probably 100 pounds added heh
[23:11:32] <cpresser> i dont care for optics, function is all i want :)
[23:11:44] <cpresser> thats the inside: http://imgur.com/T7jrda5
[23:11:44] <MrFluffy> Outside will hurt its retail value if you ever resell
[23:12:00] <cpresser> not if i give it an ironman paintjob :P
[23:12:05] <XXCoder1> know what
[23:12:11] <XXCoder1> I pictured it as bigger than that lol
[23:12:14] <SpeedEvil> I was going to suggest putting a block of wood inside, and using nice countersunk woodscrews to secure the metal.
[23:12:33] <SpeedEvil> (mostly kidding)
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[23:12:50] <MrFluffy> it creak before it failed next time too, bonus, audible overload system
[23:15:01] <MrFluffy> even if its one of the awkward alloys to weld, its still worth asking a specialist their opinion
[23:15:16] <Tom_itx> is G33.1 modal in that i can specify it then just enter new x y coordinates for the next holes?
[23:15:32] <Tom_itx> or must it be issued for each hole?
[23:15:49] <MrFluffy> a supplier sent me 2017 by accident for a assembly and I tig welded it up as normal without realizing it, then he rang me to apologise and I had already used it.
[23:20:21] <furrywolf> ok, I'm going to upload images of the most recent cutter, and someone can tell me what I did wrong.
[23:20:35] <XXCoder1> maybe also your setup
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[23:21:07] <furrywolf> this'll be a while on my connection.
[23:22:08] <SpeedEvil> If you managed to break your steel cutter cutting bronze, I question if there is a meaningful answer.
[23:22:25] <furrywolf> no, I didn't break it cutting bronze.
[23:22:29] <furrywolf> it never actually cut the bronze!
[23:23:06] <cpresser> did you experience build-up on the tool-edge?
[23:23:18] <furrywolf> yes. of the tool edge.
[23:24:12] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/lathecutter/lathecutter03-corner01.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/lathecutter/lathecutter03-corner02.jpg first two images uploaded
[23:24:43] <furrywolf> that was after an attempt at taking a shallow pass off the end of a bronze bushing
[23:24:56] <cpresser> well, i am not lathe expert, but it seems the edge is missing?
[23:25:04] <furrywolf> it didn't succeed in removing any bronze
[23:25:49] <MrFluffy> did that start off with negative rake on it?
[23:26:20] <furrywolf> this was the second attempt at using the bit. the first time it didn't do anything, so I tried sharpening it by hand with a fine stone. this is why there's a couple different angles visible in places.
[23:27:02] <furrywolf> there's more images uploading which show the geometry... just slowly.
[23:27:35] <furrywolf> it has a slight positive rake. all the charts I've found say to not use a lot of rake on bronze.
[23:27:45] <cpresser> is the ridge a result of your sharpening?
[23:28:00] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/lathecutter/lathecutter03-end01.jpg end view. sharpening attempt visible.
[23:28:30] <SpeedEvil> Did you accidentally use mobil-1 as cutting fluid? :)
[23:28:31] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/lathecutter/lathecutter03-side01.jpg side view
[23:29:03] <furrywolf> dry
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[23:29:45] <furrywolf> this is try #3. try #1 worked well, but wasn't perfect. try #2 failed miserably, just like try #3.
[23:29:59] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/lathecutter/lathecutter03-top01.jpg top view
[23:30:17] <MrFluffy> do you have a shot of it actually in the lathe presented to the workpiece?
[23:30:22] <furrywolf> after hand sharpening, it had a nice sharp edge.
[23:30:25] <furrywolf> no
[23:31:13] <furrywolf> I took pictures after I pulled it out, looked at it, and went "why the fuck did the bronze flatten my HSS?!"
[23:31:39] <furrywolf> I kept it cool during grinding, dipped in water every few seconds, so it shouldn't have been overheated. no discoloration.
[23:31:53] <SpeedEvil> I would try to cut some mild steel or something with the tool
[23:32:01] <SpeedEvil> just by hand with it in some vice-grips
[23:32:06] <furrywolf> ... so I can ruin it faster? :P
[23:32:35] <furrywolf> I'm out of broken drill bits, and I'm not sacraficing a usable bit for a fourth try.
[23:32:44] <MrFluffy> I try things on the palm of my hand, you can feel them when the edges are right.
[23:33:20] <furrywolf> either I suck at grinding bits, or drill bits suck at being repurposed as lathe bits.
[23:33:29] <MrFluffy> sharpen this one again, and take a photo of it close up before using it?
[23:34:18] <furrywolf> it's a bit short, but I'll try. (vise grips hit tool rest)
[23:34:47] <MrFluffy> the edge looks chipped close up is all
[23:36:25] <MrFluffy> do you have a slip/oilstone to finish the edges off?
[23:36:52] <MrFluffy> Sometimes I use a diamond file to get the final edge when the job demands it.
[23:37:27] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, break off a file handle and use it
[23:39:30] <furrywolf> I tried using a stone manually, but found I couldn't maintain it parallel enough, and made everything round.
[23:39:41] <SpeedEvil> make a little wood block
[23:39:48] <SpeedEvil> to hold it in one orientation
[23:39:58] <SpeedEvil> orientation confusion is bad
[23:40:25] <MrFluffy> boring bars come with a little jig to hold the toolbits in to sharpen them like that speedevil
[23:40:41] <MrFluffy> they even mark the holes in the sequence you have to push them onto the lapping disc with
[23:41:05] <MrFluffy> boring bars as in cylinder boring bars, not tooling
[23:41:20] <furrywolf> ... orientation confusion is perfectly OK. it falls under "b" or "q" in "glbtq" :P
[23:41:38] <MrFluffy> almost foolproof, except I put the toolbit in the holder upside a few times at first.
[23:43:39] <furrywolf> uploading images after resharpening. will be a few minutes.
[23:44:19] * MrFluffy is pricing bigger pulleys for the 4th axis, ho hum...
[23:45:21] <MrFluffy> fabricate 4th axis for mill. Give it 2:1 drive ratio from the stepper. What was I thinking... Maybe I thought I was building a lathe.
[23:46:24] <furrywolf> you probably want gears at the end, not a belt, anyway... I'd figure a belt would cause springyness which would cause chatter.
[23:47:18] <SpeedEvil> I saw some CF based belts - insanely stiff
[23:48:56] <XXCoder1> high troque required im sure
[23:49:19] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/lathecutter/lathecutter03a-end01.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/lathecutter/lathecutter03a-side01.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/lathecutter/lathecutter03a-top01.jpg
[23:49:31] <MrFluffy> Im stuck with belts, so Im going to jam the biggest pulley I can on the spindle and the smallest on the stepper, and swap the stepper for a 1600oz/inch unit in place of the 1000 I have on now.
[23:49:46] <XXCoder1> increased rake
[23:52:57] -!- huma has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[23:54:21] <furrywolf> so, first question: is there anything horribly wrong with the geometry?
[23:55:35] <furrywolf> I'm not an expert at bit grinding (in fact, I suck at it), but I don't see anything particularly wrong.
[23:56:08] <XXCoder1> unfortunately you know more than me on that. guys?
[23:56:28] <MrFluffy> Im not a expert either but it looks like it has has a lot of top rake for bronze
[23:56:40] <MrFluffy> back rake, top surface whatever name you want to use
[23:57:07] <furrywolf> ... people complained I didn't have enough rake in the last one I pasted. lol
[23:57:37] <MrFluffy> no it looked like it went negative at the end
[23:57:45] <MrFluffy> also the cutting edge looks torn
[23:57:58] <furrywolf> one table I found for bronze said I should have -4 degrees. I had a slight positive.
[23:58:34] <furrywolf> that's because it's a coarse stone. you can't see that by eye - it's only a 3/16" round, so scale everything mentally down to that size.
[23:59:28] <furrywolf> somewhere between 3/16 and 1/4. I didn't measure. lol