#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-05-01

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[02:30:18] <zeeshan> someone send me 2 cat40 .75 shell mill holders and 3 ER32 cat40!
[02:30:25] <zeeshan> w/ 2x 3/4" collet and 1/8" collet
[02:30:28] <zeeshan> =]
[02:34:34] <furrywolf> yay, new radiator in van.
[02:38:36] <furrywolf> had to go find a steep hill to drive up and down to get the rear heat bled
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[03:21:05] <Aero-Tec> when using G76 for threading I guess there is no way to have the drive line used for the complete run
[03:21:38] <Aero-Tec> my test show that it is drive line plus the thread depth
[03:22:47] <Aero-Tec> and that the return move keeps getting closer to the drive line till the end of threading when it runs along the drive line
[03:23:53] <Aero-Tec> I am cutting some internal threads and running tight inside the hole
[03:24:42] <Aero-Tec> would be nice if the tool return was on the drive line and not adding thread hight to the drive line
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[03:28:06] <Aero-Tec> been playing around with testing it and reading the docs
[03:28:24] <Aero-Tec> looks like there is no way using G76 to do it
[03:28:35] <Aero-Tec> let me know if I am wrong
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[03:37:37] <furrywolf> blah. got my new tinsel wire... it's too stiff. I'll need to buy thinner.
[03:41:55] <norias> tinsel wire?
[03:42:33] * furrywolf googles for norias
[03:43:29] <norias> eh
[03:44:20] <furrywolf> I'm surprised it doesn't have a wikipedia entry. lol
[03:44:57] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinsel_wire
[03:45:59] <furrywolf> lol
[03:46:27] <furrywolf> that is, in fact, the wrong type of tinsel wire.
[03:47:34] <furrywolf> very similar, but the stuff for speakers uses fine round strands, not foil, and is often silver.
[03:47:50] <furrywolf> and is solderable
[03:48:54] <furrywolf> http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/11933784/H2_Speaker_Lead_Wire_Line.jpg that stuff
[03:49:35] <furrywolf> http://sound.westhost.com/articles/spk-fail-f4.jpg
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[03:52:31] <furrywolf> I bought .081 wire because it was cheaper, but it's too thick. ordering some more-expensive .054 now. I guess the fat stuff is used on subs and they sell more of it, or something.
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[04:02:43] <PetefromTn_> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206855482046064&set=pcb.860816297321841&type=1&theater
[04:03:44] <Crom> PetefromTn_, This content is currently unavailable
[04:04:06] <PetefromTn_> doh
[04:04:48] <PetefromTn_> works for me here
[04:04:57] <Crom> your content?
[04:05:05] <PetefromTn_> no
[04:05:26] <Crom> The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.
[04:05:38] <Crom> perms most probable
[04:05:52] <PetefromTn_> https://www.facebook.com/groups/772213566182115/
[04:07:14] <PetefromTn_> second item down robots
[04:08:50] <Crom> I'm pending.. can't get to them
[04:09:28] <PetefromTn_> ok sorry
[04:15:00] * furrywolf doesn't even bother clicking anything to do with facebook
[04:16:16] <Crom> colinfurze is making a jet kart now
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[04:35:31] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
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[05:11:08] <Crom> hmm 746w per horse power, so a 1.5kw spindle is basically a 2hp spindle and at 100% efficiency draws 12.5amps. A 2.2kw spindle draws 18.3 amps on a 120v circuit. So you're better off driving 1.5kw and 2.2kw spindles off 220vac-240vac circuits
[05:12:00] <Crom> 2.2kw spindle is basicallt a 3hp spindle.
[05:18:15] <Computer_Barf1> is linuxcnc-dev within the buildbot sources?
[05:18:43] <Computer_Barf1> i ended up compiling it but that would explain alot
[05:19:11] <Computer_Barf1> cause I was sudo apt-get install linuxcnc and that wasn't working out
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[05:22:24] <Crom> Computer_Barf1, you have in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/linuxcnc.list.*
[05:22:43] <Computer_Barf1> yes
[05:23:11] <Computer_Barf1> im just asking if linuxcnc-dev is in there
[05:23:11] <Crom> sources.list.d/linuxcnc.list:deb http://linuxcnc.org/ wheezy base 2.6
[05:23:11] <Crom> sources.list.d/linuxcnc.list:deb-src http://linuxcnc.org/ wheezy base 2.6
[05:23:26] <Crom> checking
[05:24:04] <Computer_Barf1> deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ wheezy master-rtpreempt deb-src http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ wheezy master-rtpreempt
[05:24:12] <Computer_Barf1> those are the ones I had added
[05:24:52] <Computer_Barf1> this is just a curiousity, ive already compiled it because i couldn't get the linuxcnc in it working for me but I think it might have been that I needed to request linuxcnc-dev
[05:26:15] <Crom> the ones I'm running are listing linuxcnc-dev
[05:26:47] <Crom> not sure of the source yet... I'm using synaptic package manager to get the info
[05:28:16] <Crom> yep it's coming out of deb-src http://linuxcnc.org/ wheezy base 2.6
[05:36:56] <Computer_Barf1> so just to be clear, installing sudo apt-get install linuxcnc would be diffrent than sudo apt-get install linucnc-dev ?
[05:37:07] <Computer_Barf1> woops i ment linuxcnc-dev
[05:37:51] <Crom> yep
[05:38:11] <Computer_Barf1> cause on the buildbot archives sources page it doesn't mention linuxcnc-dev, which i think kinda threw me for a loop.
[05:38:45] <Crom> hmmm interesting paypal told the sellers I bought the stuff, I don't see anything in my bank statement that says they took money out
[05:39:00] <Computer_Barf1> it might be useful to mention that to whomever maintains that paage
[05:39:25] <Computer_Barf1> paypal always gets it's due
[05:39:27] <Crom> so I'm getting $67 worth of stuff for $0 right now
[05:39:34] <Computer_Barf1> *game of thrones reference
[05:40:07] <Crom> well they better not take it right now... I have $11 in the bank
[05:44:26] <Computer_Barf1> hold on
[05:44:36] <Computer_Barf1> trying to think of a way to extend the game of thrones metaphore
[05:46:01] <Computer_Barf1> perhaps you could agree to join an alliance and little finger, ahem paypal will float you a loan from embezzled money back from when he was the master of coin in kings landing
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[05:47:14] <Computer_Barf1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxLKfAZrhbM
[05:47:22] <Computer_Barf1> watching this video on voltage dividers
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[05:56:46] <Crom> heh
[05:59:03] <Crom> weird maybe I have to wait for midnight local time
[05:59:23] <Crom> waiting for VA pay to show up
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[06:13:39] <Computer_Barf1> is linuxcnc development taking a definative move away from ubuntu?
[06:17:57] <Crom> dunno really.. latest greatest distro linuxcnc is debian... So I think maybe yes
[06:19:10] <Crom> fsck'n NRA arguing for Open Carry Ban in California, contra to what the Supremes said in Heller and McDonald
[06:19:42] <Computer_Barf1> I regard the NRA as a gun control organisation
[06:19:54] <Computer_Barf1> gun owners of america ftw
[06:19:58] <Crom> ditto
[06:20:52] <Crom> https://www.facebook.com/CaliforniaRightToCarry
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[06:21:03] <Crom> wish I could send him some money
[06:22:24] <Computer_Barf1> https://gunowners.org/
[06:23:36] <norias> guns?
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[06:24:45] <norias> i like guns
[06:24:51] <Crom> fsck'n brain dead cops... Total idiots http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-runs-red-light-forces-drivers-road-ticket-fire-chief-responding-actual-emergency/
[06:24:53] <norias> i like open carry
[06:25:13] <norias> trying to hide a full size combat pistol in your pants
[06:25:15] <norias> is a pain
[06:25:19] <Crom> norias I used to do it all the time when I was in the service
[06:25:42] <norias> i started open carrying after i got back from iraq
[06:25:52] <norias> at first i was concealing
[06:26:00] <norias> then i realized open carry was legal where i live
[06:26:06] <norias> so i said to hell with that
[06:26:15] <Crom> when I got back to california it was unloaded open carry and cops could stop you every 5 feet and check to see if it was loaded
[06:26:28] <norias> nightmare
[06:26:38] <norias> why carry if it's unloaded?
[06:26:42] <norias> that's an insane law
[06:26:59] <Crom> concealed carry is illegal without a permit except in constitional carry states
[06:27:17] <norias> yeah
[06:27:26] <norias> we're "shall issue" here
[06:27:30] <Crom> It's People Republic of California
[06:27:34] <norias> so, at least there's that
[06:28:23] <Crom> Which is why I'm supporting Chuck Nichols case best I can. Talking it up, spreading the awareness
[06:28:36] <norias> not familiar
[06:29:08] <Crom> oh and the Gorgia Fire Chief was handed 3 tickets
[06:29:17] <Crom> https://www.facebook.com/CaliforniaRightToCarry
[06:29:40] <Crom> http://blog.californiarighttocarry.org/?page_id=739
[06:30:41] <Computer_Barf1> Its fine if people want to try but I'm not much of a believer in any sort of fix coming by political action
[06:31:03] <Crom> it's more Judicial action
[06:31:04] <Computer_Barf1> I think it just feeds the delusion of belief in political authority
[06:31:18] <Crom> since the fsck'n Poli's can't read
[06:31:22] <Computer_Barf1> which is how we got to gun control being percieved as a solution
[06:32:28] <Computer_Barf1> although i would perfer minarchism and a return to constitutional roots to the kind of abject statism we are used to today,
[06:32:29] <Crom> man I want to finish milling my 80% receiver
[06:32:36] <Computer_Barf1> I just don't think its going to work out
[06:33:10] <Computer_Barf1> face the dark enlightenment. empires fall. the rubicon has been crossed.
[06:33:35] <norias> republics are historically short lived
[06:34:40] <Computer_Barf1> I think the constitution was subverted before the ink was dry
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[06:34:54] <norias> that's one perspective
[06:34:59] <norias> not one i agree with
[06:35:00] <norias> but, eh
[06:35:14] <Computer_Barf1> imagine if I got a piece of paper
[06:35:19] <Computer_Barf1> and i gathered some guys together
[06:35:29] <Computer_Barf1> and we decided that we were going to represent you
[06:35:36] <Computer_Barf1> and we all vote and write down some rules
[06:35:43] <Computer_Barf1> and on the paper it says
[06:35:48] <Computer_Barf1> its legitimate for us to rob you
[06:35:51] <norias> which is pretty much the root of republics
[06:36:14] <norias> it's always this tenuous agreement between the rich and the poor
[06:36:34] <norias> there's usually a constitution that is reffered to when it is convenient
[06:36:58] <norias> the ability of either side of an argument to call on the constitution acts as a bounds check
[06:37:49] <norias> we tend to forget this stuff has been done before
[06:38:11] <norias> the people that started this country pretty explicitly based it on the roman republic
[06:38:41] <norias> George Washington stepped in to act as Cincinnatus
[06:39:51] <norias> i think we made a mistake when we disenfranchised the rich
[06:39:59] <norias> by opening the senate to popular election
[06:40:20] <norias> once money has no direct route to power, it seeks indirect routes
[06:40:36] <norias> we see similar things in rome
[06:40:46] <Computer_Barf1> well in some ways the latest iteration was a departure but ultimately yes it seems that it succumbed to histories rhyming. I think if you are going to claim yourself sovriegn to the king , its a bit surprising when they forget the implications of that in contrast to the creation of their own local government. I believe they went far but not far enough.
[06:40:49] <norias> we see most of the wealth being controlled by the 1%
[06:40:58] <norias> but, the romans made the mistake of reform
[06:41:04] <norias> first, it didn't work
[06:41:13] <norias> they redistributed the land (wealth)
[06:41:18] <norias> and it failed terribly
[06:41:35] <norias> as it turns out, the system that was in place had been very efficient
[06:41:49] <norias> we are in a situation where productivity is higher than ever
[06:41:53] <Computer_Barf1> I don't have a problem with wealth disparity , I have a problem with the legitimisation of political authority as a means that can be leveraged by that current 1 percent to maintain their position to avoid the churning of wealth turnover.
[06:41:57] <norias> but wages in terms of capital are low
[06:42:19] <norias> well, i think it's important to note the romans faced the same problem
[06:42:25] <norias> they tried redistribution
[06:42:27] <norias> it failed
[06:42:36] <norias> the reformers were hung in the street
[06:42:38] <norias> by Sulla
[06:42:42] <Computer_Barf1> yes thats a pretty big aspect they don't teach enough
[06:42:45] <norias> that's where it gets dangerous
[06:43:00] <norias> because remember Sulla was Julius Ceasar's uncle
[06:43:12] <norias> so, Ceasar justified his dictatorship
[06:43:16] <norias> and march on Rome
[06:43:21] <norias> because Sulla had done so
[06:43:32] <norias> precedent
[06:44:13] <norias> i think the lesson is be careful how you fix wealth disparity
[06:44:17] <norias> or don't fix it at all
[06:44:33] <norias> because what comes next, when the fix fails, can be ugly
[06:44:49] <Computer_Barf1> I think the churning of the markets does it better than political authority ever does
[06:45:02] <norias> i don't disagree
[06:45:17] <Computer_Barf1> in trying to create a solution you create a concentration of power that is a magnet to people who want to possess such power
[06:45:18] <norias> i will note that i think one of the real problems are in barriers to entry
[06:45:35] <norias> one of the best modes of wealth creation is the corporation
[06:45:42] <norias> which is effectively barred to the poor
[06:45:56] <norias> because the paperwork, the taxes, it's hard
[06:46:22] <norias> i just worked on my accounting until 2am
[06:46:50] <norias> i'm trying to get ahead of the ball for my 2nd quarter filings
[06:46:51] <Computer_Barf1> PEOPLE are bad so in order to cure the deep darkness in their human hearts we must therefore put PEOPLE in charge of a legitimised psuedo moneopoly on the use of the initation of force and violence. No psychopath will ever take notice of such power.
[06:47:06] <norias> because i make enough money through my business to lose stuff to taxes
[06:47:13] <norias> but not enough to employ a good accountant
[06:47:33] <Computer_Barf1> yes I don't regard corporations as free market institutions. They are literal constructs of the state.
[06:47:46] <norias> regard them as what you will
[06:47:55] <norias> but they can be a good vehicle for wealth creation
[06:48:03] <norias> but you have to understand tax code
[06:48:11] <norias> legal paperwork for formation
[06:48:16] <norias> accounting
[06:48:24] <Computer_Barf1> I don't think though they are the source of that wealth creation
[06:48:26] <norias> not stuff they teach in public school
[06:48:43] <norias> i don't say it's necessarily the source
[06:48:46] <norias> in a small company
[06:48:48] <Computer_Barf1> I think the contracts that comprise them ride on the wealth creation that is inherent to capital exchange
[06:48:54] <norias> i think it's a useful vehicle
[06:49:34] <norias> i'm just stating that if want to start a company
[06:49:48] <norias> you probably won't figure it out if your poor and undereducated
[06:49:58] <norias> which is a huge change over the past 60 years
[06:50:06] <Computer_Barf1> I just think alot of people have been persueded to believe aspects that are otherwise available in the open market are somehow created by corporations
[06:50:08] <norias> my grandfather has an 8th grade education
[06:50:12] <norias> and he started a company
[06:50:16] <norias> in the 50's
[06:50:48] <Computer_Barf1> unfortunantly they are really the only option available in the current enviroment, and yes suffer from what you are saying
[06:51:30] <Computer_Barf1> barriers to access , regulatory market capture, crony-capitalism presented as if it were capitalism.
[06:51:34] <norias> i mean, honestly, i'm a smart dude
[06:51:43] <norias> and it's hard to do this accounting stuff
[06:51:51] <norias> and get it right
[06:51:59] <norias> to get the revenue recognition right
[06:52:02] <norias> etc
[06:52:07] <Computer_Barf1> oh no yeah i totally agree. Most people work for someone else so they have no idea
[06:52:26] <norias> having a job, in a lot of ways, is fucking easy
[06:52:28] <Crom> yep..
[06:52:37] <norias> but, i don't.. it's not for me
[06:52:39] <Computer_Barf1> I mean the number of people that are self employed today are a tiny fraction
[06:52:54] <norias> i don't think that employment is how you generate wealth for yourself
[06:53:09] <norias> it's easy, it's comfortable
[06:53:13] <norias> it pays the bills
[06:53:17] <norias> but that's about it
[06:53:43] <Computer_Barf1> Well you give up on exponential curves in a alot of ways.
[06:54:17] <norias> starting a business is hard enough
[06:54:27] <norias> doing sales and worrying if you'll have revenues next month
[06:54:42] <norias> all the government requirements make it almost not worth it
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[06:55:00] <norias> almost
[06:55:05] <Deejay> moin
[06:55:07] <Crom> and china price doesn't let one really get into manufactoring except for a very small niche markets
[06:55:12] <Computer_Barf1> I've made my million and lost it and started all over again, you don't need to tell me what it's like out there.
[06:55:20] <norias> uh, funny, i'm in manufacturing
[06:55:32] <norias> it's doable
[06:55:38] <norias> i don't deal with the communists
[06:55:47] <archivist_herron> you make the money when you sell the company
[06:56:35] <Crom> norias you're in a niche market aren't you?
[06:56:44] <norias> i wouldn't say that
[06:57:08] <norias> i do manufacturing consulting
[06:57:17] <norias> i mostly help with new product development
[06:57:24] <Crom> ahh service industry
[06:57:30] <norias> i've done the numbers a ton of times
[06:57:31] <Computer_Barf1> i don't know how you wouldn't deal with them in commiefornia
[06:57:43] <norias> so much stuff doesn't make sense in china
[06:57:49] <norias> i..
[06:58:00] <norias> i actually make my money because people assume you have to go to china
[06:58:05] <norias> in a way
[06:58:10] <Computer_Barf1> yeah
[06:58:21] <Computer_Barf1> that is happening more than you would think
[06:58:28] <norias> i'm not surprised
[06:58:33] <norias> the economics are there
[06:58:39] <norias> if you value your development time
[06:58:41] <Computer_Barf1> it will be interesting when the chinese decide that they are better off selling to their own people
[06:58:42] <norias> and time to market
[06:58:54] <Computer_Barf1> than to keep on sending stuff to us for money that is losing its value
[06:59:40] <norias> you know, i think
[06:59:40] <Computer_Barf1> or iou's
[06:59:51] <norias> the chinese can beat us on labor (less so now)
[06:59:59] <norias> and they have the same technology
[07:00:04] <norias> they can use if they want
[07:00:19] <norias> i think our ability to not-centrally organize
[07:00:23] <norias> and our markets
[07:00:30] <norias> will crush china in the long run
[07:00:44] <Computer_Barf1> well
[07:00:58] <Computer_Barf1> our distributed nature has been in the decline
[07:01:08] <norias> yeah, i agree
[07:01:17] <norias> and the chinese are becoming more decentralized
[07:01:32] <norias> but i think we can have it, if we want
[07:01:45] <norias> in 20 years, maybe not
[07:01:57] <norias> but if we press our advantage now
[07:02:06] <Computer_Barf1> 40,000 something new laws in the last year
[07:02:10] <norias> yeah
[07:02:13] <norias> it's crazy
[07:02:22] <Computer_Barf1> our laws read more like books than rules
[07:02:30] <norias> that's why i brought up my grandfather
[07:02:37] <norias> get him on this subject
[07:02:37] <Computer_Barf1> I think its all going to have to come down before people wise up
[07:02:40] <norias> he cusses
[07:02:48] <norias> says he'd never start a business these days
[07:03:52] <norias> anyway
[07:03:55] <norias> i should sleep
[07:03:58] <norias> meeting in the morning
[07:04:14] <Computer_Barf1> have a good night
[07:04:18] <norias> you too
[07:04:39] <Crom> lawyers were outlawed in the Massachusetts Colony for over a 100 years
[07:06:17] <Computer_Barf1> lysander spooner was from mass
[07:07:13] <Computer_Barf1> he started out a pretty noteable life over his dispute over rules pertaining to what it took to be a lawyer
[07:08:18] <Computer_Barf1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_Spooner
[07:08:50] <Crom> The "Body of Liberties" adopted by the Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1641 expressed the typical attitudes of the time: "Every man that finds himself unfit to plead his own cause in any court shall have liberty to employ any man ..., provided he give him no fee or reward for his pain."
[07:11:14] <Computer_Barf1> that is interesting
[07:12:04] <Crom> well one check showed up
[07:12:06] <Computer_Barf1> similar to the sentiment that requiring someone to represent you may in part be seen as an admission of incompetence
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[07:12:33] <Computer_Barf1> we're a long way away from such thoughts
[07:14:20] <Computer_Barf1> im wondering what exactly gets broken when a distro upgrade happens in debian that causes linuxcnc to cease functioning correctly
[07:14:43] <Crom> usually kernel, or libraries
[07:15:20] <Computer_Barf1> ok so yeah , I've been going through the whole trouble of building my own kernel for RT-prempt
[07:16:32] <Computer_Barf1> It's just I've heard of ppl using modern versions of ubuntu and compiling linuxcnc and the kernel patching for parport stuff
[07:17:09] <Computer_Barf1> but that brings us back to the why debian question so im going in circiles
[07:17:14] <Computer_Barf1> blerb
[07:17:23] <Computer_Barf1> sorry i have rubber hands at these hours
[07:23:30] <Computer_Barf1> Crom: sounds like the iron bank will be collecting a bounce fee
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[07:31:13] <Deejay> re
[07:32:56] <XXCoder1> home early jeez
[07:32:59] <XXCoder1> got so sick
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[07:39:32] <Computer_Barf1> drink less then
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[07:39:44] <XXCoder1> ... drink?
[07:39:53] <Computer_Barf1> your home early
[07:39:57] <Computer_Barf1> you got so sick
[07:40:05] <XXCoder1> and?
[07:40:26] <Computer_Barf1> so I jokingly made the presumption that you got sick from too much drinking
[07:40:36] <Computer_Barf1> and thats why you are home early
[07:40:38] <XXCoder1> oh
[07:40:40] <XXCoder1> lol
[07:40:46] <XXCoder1> sorry muddled thinking
[07:40:55] <XXCoder1> hats why home early, muddled head = fewer fingers
[07:40:57] <Computer_Barf1> see that fits too
[07:41:13] <XXCoder1> :)
[07:41:52] <Computer_Barf1> my plan for fewer fingers is eventual robot hands
[07:42:10] <Computer_Barf1> and throw in some robot legs just for speed
[07:42:18] <XXCoder1> lol
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[07:45:25] <Computer_Barf1> for an estop , on line would go to the pin number configured for it , and presumably the other would go to ground?
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[07:48:02] <Crom> depend on the pin.. it might need 5v
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[07:49:23] <Crom> estop I'd want to wire as NC have it activate on active low
[07:49:45] <Crom> so a broken wire would trigger it
[07:50:11] <Computer_Barf1> i dont really mean so much as estop but im trying to understand how the individual pins are usually wired
[07:50:42] <Computer_Barf1> the mesa 7i76e I have has a ton of extra pins
[07:51:06] <Computer_Barf1> ive just yet to have hooked up any of them
[07:51:29] <Computer_Barf1> the steppers are more strait forward that you plug in the step / dirs
[07:52:58] <XXCoder1> heh cant wait to finally have time to build my cnc router
[07:53:04] <Crom> on my Break Out Board I was having to use 5v to pin on inputs and pin to ground for outputs
[07:53:27] <XXCoder1> this weekend is first one I dont have to drive billion miles to move stuff
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[08:00:55] <Computer_Barf1> moving is hell
[08:02:39] <XXCoder1> yeah mostly not my stuff even lol
[08:02:49] <XXCoder1> helping my bro
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[10:48:10] <jthornton> Tom_itx, still backing up the w7 machine, all others backed up
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[11:42:31] <Tom_itx> taking a good long while
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[11:57:15] <jthornton> yea the XP was 142GB I expect the w7 to be twice that
[11:59:35] <jthornton> a lot of the stuff is duplicated and copies from older computers... I need to clean it up one day
[12:08:19] <_methods> i keep sayin that myself
[12:11:02] <Tom_itx> i don't mind keeping duplicates on multiple pcs
[12:11:16] <Tom_itx> i've had that come in pretty handy at times
[12:11:57] <_methods> it has saved my buttox a few times
[12:12:08] <_methods> my random distributed storage schema
[12:13:06] <Tom_itx> sometimes when i go to edit something i gotta remember where the original was in case they were different
[12:14:17] <_methods> random redundancy lol
[12:16:02] <Tom_itx> that usually only happens when i'm updating a hal or pin file and need to update the docs which are on a win pc
[12:16:47] <Tom_itx> i try to keep good record of the cnc setup including wire colors etc
[12:17:41] <_methods> indeed
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[12:37:51] <archivist_herron> I wrote a deduplicating program for that problem
[12:38:41] <archivist_herron> checksum,filename and filesize
[12:40:07] <archivist_herron> and for images I can see a thumb and any exif info to make sure
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[13:01:52] <Deejay> re
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[16:28:14] <CaptHindsight> http://kukuruku.co/hub/diy/usb-killer?ModPagespeed=noscript hows this for a nasty surprise?
[16:28:29] <_methods> yeah man
[16:28:34] <_methods> leave that in a parking lot
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[16:29:13] <_methods> or on you fav co workers desk lol
[16:30:08] <CaptHindsight> marked "top secret, do not use"
[16:30:21] <CaptHindsight> so you have technically warned them
[16:30:36] <CaptHindsight> curiosity killed the PC
[16:30:46] <_methods> hahah
[16:30:58] <_methods> big red do not press button
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[16:32:50] <archivist> note at least one glaring error "N-channel field resistor"
[16:33:12] <CaptHindsight> a pocket sized EMP would also be very handy
[16:33:21] <_methods> resistor transistor potato potatoe
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[16:37:00] <CaptHindsight> I'd pay for an app that does that to someones phone over the network
[16:37:22] <CaptHindsight> especially for robocallers
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[16:38:22] <CaptHindsight> telemarketing phone calls
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[16:49:28] <_methods> if only
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[17:18:47] <Computer_barf> ok so I got my usb ethernet adapter today and with a little network configuration I'm on the internet with the usb, and have managed to ping my mesa 7i76e over the hardwear ethernet
[17:21:21] <Computer_barf> PCW: so now that I can ping and get a response from the 7i76e , http://pastebin.com/nZNHkwRa this is where I am at with running linuxcnc using your 7i76es.ini configuration file , appears to be mac address related.
[17:21:22] <archivist> usb?
[17:21:57] <Computer_barf> usb to ethernet, just for accessing the internet
[17:22:30] <Computer_barf> cause the board only has one ethernet port and its going to be used
[17:36:44] <_methods> andypugh: did you make drawings/prints for your harrison conversion?
[17:37:08] <_methods> i'd be curious to see all the modifications you've made to cnc it
[17:37:10] <andypugh> Yes and no.
[17:37:25] <andypugh> All the bits I made were 3D modelled first.
[17:37:33] <_methods> there are like 8 horizontals at this auction in a couple weeks and it looks like i can pick one up for like $100
[17:37:52] <andypugh> Go for it, they are nice little machines.
[17:38:05] <_methods> yeah for that cheap i can't pass up
[17:38:19] <_methods> and they take up less space than a full bridgeport
[17:38:22] <archivist> and another for spares
[17:39:11] <_methods> no one even looks at those things at auctions anymore
[17:39:17] <_methods> i see them go for $50 some times
[17:41:19] <Computer_barf> PCW: ok I modified the 7i76es1.ini to DRIVER=hm2_eth board_ip="10.10.10.10" , and I seem to be getting a little further. http://pastebin.com/mH59rBHi
[17:41:53] <andypugh> _methods: Snag any horizontal arbors > 1” too, if you can :-)
[17:42:00] <_methods> yeah
[17:42:12] <andypugh> (You need a 1” too, but I have one of those)
[17:42:25] <t12> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/tls/4999652098.html
[17:42:38] <t12> this is likely way too expensive to buy anything for huh
[17:42:49] <andypugh> It’s prettty spendy
[17:43:03] <t12> every schaublin part seems to be both custom
[17:43:04] <PCW> hm2-pidstepper.hal:232: parameter or pin 'hm2_7i76e.0.7i76.0.0.spinout-scalemax' not found
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[17:43:05] <t12> and at least $1k
[17:43:06] <PCW> means you dont have field power
[17:43:10] <andypugh> Note that is a plain-turning lathe, no carriage traverse
[17:44:05] <archivist> I have spent many hours on schaublins, very fast to swap jobs/setups
[17:44:37] <archivist> that would be £3000 over here
[17:45:02] <andypugh> Rivetts are pretty neat too, no tools at all needed other than a chuck key
[17:45:16] <t12> i missed a very nice sb9 on craigslist for
[17:45:16] <t12> 900
[17:45:23] <t12> by like 2 hours
[17:45:37] <andypugh> I can’t operate Craiglist. I can only ever search my postcode
[17:45:44] <Computer_barf> PCW: im supposed to supply power somewhere lese than the green 5v in?
[17:45:52] <archivist> for clockmakers you cant beat the schaublin
[17:45:53] <Computer_barf> *else
[17:46:00] <t12> i guess i'm back to looking at weiss lathes sadly
[17:46:09] <t12> i'm still trying to figure out where to set expectations on them
[17:47:08] <archivist> now I have the Lorch equivalent to the shaublin, I know which is better
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[17:48:54] <PCW> Computer_barf: yes field I/O runs on a separate supply ( It can be cmpletely isolated from the 5V logic supply)
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[17:49:09] <andypugh> There was a Holbrook lathe on Gumtree I was thinking of buying, but it looks to have gone and saved me the decision
[17:49:41] <t12> this whole no concrete floor and no forklift and loading dock thing
[17:49:46] <t12> really puts a cramp on nice lathe purchasing
[17:50:15] <archivist> I need a real 240 to 440v inverter to get my schaubling running
[17:50:41] <t12> easier to switch motors maybe?
[17:50:57] <andypugh> t12 I know there is a Rivett 8” Precision on CL somewhere
[17:51:04] <archivist> t12, planks of wood an rollers can get a machine over very rough ground
[17:51:09] <andypugh> Have a search, if you can figure out CL, because I can't
[17:51:55] <t12> i wonder how much my floor could actually support
[17:51:58] <archivist> t12, I wish, the motor is direct coupled to the belt variable speed drive
[17:52:08] <t12> with much trouble i could cut a chunk of it out and pour a pad through the wood floor i guess
[17:53:15] <_methods> hehe sink some i-beams and weld a plate to the top of them
[17:53:17] <t12> https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/4995485698.html ?
[17:53:24] <t12> could do that
[17:53:30] <t12> though lots of rock unther the house
[17:53:30] <archivist> this is on a wood floor http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Richards_of_Burton_clockworks/P1010232.JPG
[17:53:34] <t12> home-fundex
[17:54:19] <_methods> heh wow that rivett is beautiful
[17:54:23] <t12> i could just get a real space and move all this stuff there
[17:54:35] <archivist> although steel beams were inserted under the floor when ex boss excavated the cellar
[17:54:37] <_methods> i don't know if i could live with myself cutting anything besides gold on it
[17:54:47] <t12> lol
[17:55:09] <andypugh> That’s the one
[17:55:22] <t12> i like the combination of swiss lathe and total mess of swarf
[17:55:26] <t12> very untypical
[17:55:42] <andypugh> That was a lathe that cost $500 in 1911 and $2000 in 1936. In 1936 a Myford ML4 lathe was £7. !
[17:55:58] <archivist> hehe, it was a "working" clockmakers
[17:56:25] <t12> then i came across these austrian lathe makers
[17:56:38] <t12> klippfeld
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[17:56:58] <andypugh> That’s a nice Schaublin. The original Craigslist one was a Plain Turning lathe, and I don’t think those are anything like as useful. No threading, for a start.
[17:57:26] <archivist> clockmakers hardly need threading
[17:57:36] <t12> http://www.klippfeld.at/frame_en/dreh.php
[17:57:41] <andypugh> Is t12 a clockmaker?
[17:57:48] <t12> which is suprisingly affordable
[17:57:51] <archivist> no I am though :)
[17:57:53] <t12> i would like threading
[17:58:08] <t12> i hate the obsessive compromise trap of HSM
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[17:58:29] <archivist> for normal turning then any toolroom lathe
[17:58:40] <t12> all these klippfelds appear to be linear rail based also
[17:58:42] <andypugh> Those Kippfeld lathes look nice, but for the price I really can’t believe that they are
[17:59:05] <t12> yeah thats what i was thinking
[17:59:27] <t12> though they claim to have been making them since the 60s
[17:59:37] <t12> hard to find much forumsish chatter about them
[18:00:14] <archivist> I note lots of extras that bump the price up
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[18:00:47] <MrFluffy> the thing about the schlaubins is you can find the extras from time to time now
[18:00:57] <MrFluffy> but you meant the kippfeld I guess
[18:01:09] <Computer_barf> PCW: so looking at the manual, my best guess is TB1 , pin 5 VIN, pin 8 ground, and I can probably power that with 12 volts?
[18:02:29] <MrFluffy> I offloaded a tripan111 for a schaublin and it only fetched $180 with 5 holders. Sometimes the prices are pretty low here.
[18:02:36] <PCW> 12V or 24V to TB1 pins 1 and 8
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[18:03:17] <PCW> 1 (bottom) = +V
[18:03:18] <PCW> 8(top) = common
[18:03:34] <t12> i could go for the ultimate in non-completion projects
[18:03:41] <t12> and just try and build one up from linear rails
[18:03:52] <andypugh> This onw looks properly nice http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gornati-Leopard-1-metal-lathe-/181725068619?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4fa87d4b
[18:03:54] <t12> pretty annoying to do without living in a real shop of other large machines though
[18:04:18] <archivist> t12, the klippfeld has a kit option
[18:04:25] <Computer_barf> PCW: roger that
[18:04:29] <andypugh> t12: If the Rivett is in-budget then they have a real following, and they can live in the front room.
[18:06:00] <andypugh> In fact, there is one in my front room ;-) https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Rivett?nordirect=1#5978884791542655522
[18:06:03] <t12> i suppose i could somehow freight it
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[18:08:34] <archivist> toys indoors++
[18:09:49] * MrFluffy drags himself away from leboncoin and pictures of massive cazeneuve lathes... One thing at a time...
[18:10:08] <MrFluffy> Porn... http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/676298988.htm?ca=14_s
[18:10:38] <andypugh> t12: Look at all the accessories they made for the Rivett: http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivettearly608/index.html
[18:10:46] <_methods> you can make some big ass pizzas on that thing
[18:11:07] <MrFluffy> I cant believe I live in their homeland and own a harrison...
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[18:12:05] <t12> i could just move to the old millitary base
[18:12:15] <t12> with square miles of monarchs sitting in storage
[18:12:52] <_methods> yeah i've always got my eye out for that 10ee
[18:13:17] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Which Harrison?
[18:13:29] <andypugh> I actually want an M300 to convert to CNC
[18:13:31] <MrFluffy> theres a little backstreet garage near me with a cazeneuve with a 2.5m between centres, but every time I visit they have things lying all over it
[18:13:43] <andypugh> (They are common enough that it won’t feel like I am being evil)
[18:13:52] <t12> thats is a long list of attachments
[18:13:56] <MrFluffy> Its only a l5a, 60s with a metric conversion
[18:14:22] <andypugh> Ah, yeah, something about the L5 doesn’t really work for me :-)
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[18:14:32] <MrFluffy> it has the screwed spindle nose, but I have the l00 spindle to go in when I get round to it
[18:14:54] <MrFluffy> yes the school lathe :)
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[18:16:05] <andypugh> My dad has a lathe that would make a good CNC conversion. Smart and Brown Model M
[18:16:07] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/smartbrown/page7.html
[18:16:21] <MrFluffy> they are not well liked especially, but for the size theyre quite solid if theyre not knackered, like anything else, but not suitable for cnc conversion
[18:16:53] <andypugh> The leadscrew is in the middle underneath and the saddle comes down from both sides to it. The screw is the only feed, so conversion to ballscrew is trivial.
[18:17:07] <MrFluffy> there was a rather nice dsg on ebay uk a bit back, but I had no idea how to get 5 ton of lathe home...
[18:17:27] <archivist> ask a lorry driver
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[18:17:46] <MrFluffy> yes Ive had a 7ton machine shipped from the uk, but it wasnt a pleasant experience...
[18:18:22] <MrFluffy> and the last machine I had shipped by general freight i said that was the last, if I cant go get it, I dont buy it
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[18:18:55] <andypugh> I had thought that self-drive HIAB hire was no longer possible, but a web-search today showed I was wrong: http://hire.maunmotors.co.uk/hire-vehicle-midlands-nottingham-derby-sheffield/7-5t-dropside-flatbed-crane-lorry-hire-front-mounted/
[18:19:04] <MrFluffy> I think they had used the cabinet for the depot game of conkers, and put a fork through various panels in it, but the insurance is marine insurance only
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[18:20:10] <_methods> $3600 for a monarch 10ee
[18:20:19] <t12> 3000 lbs for a monarch 10ee :(
[18:20:34] <MrFluffy> you need a 7t license though, its only grandfathered licenses come with that group now, i dont even have trailer entitlement...
[18:20:39] <andypugh> _methods: Sold! Where?
[18:20:48] <_methods> florida
[18:20:58] <_methods> orlando
[18:21:02] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Ah, but I am old, and I do have all thise thigns
[18:21:06] <_methods> http://orlando.craigslist.org/tls/5001437845.html
[18:21:08] <andypugh> _methods: Bah!
[18:21:28] <MrFluffy> my wife has, but I messed round with bikes for years before sullying myself with a car license and missed the cutoff by 2 weeks...
[18:22:15] <andypugh> That was careless
[18:24:26] <archivist> t12 or an old southbend
[18:24:36] <t12> yeah
[18:24:44] <t12> theres one at a scrapyard i frequent in a backroom i could try and purchase
[18:25:25] <archivist> I saw one in a paint shop near here, I asked and got it cheap enough
[18:27:06] <archivist> one day I might get it all pained in one colour
[18:28:17] <andypugh> If you like films of extreme welding, you might enjoy this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hCPODjJO7s
[18:29:50] <_methods> extreme welding?
[18:30:03] <_methods> http://bham.craigslist.org/for/4953577650.html
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[18:31:22] <andypugh> _methods: That’s the 5C one, which is rather easier to get collets for.
[18:31:58] <_methods> i bet
[18:32:39] <_methods> http://bham.craigslist.org/atq/4941158157.html
[18:32:41] <_methods> this is funny
[18:32:51] <_methods> built in Germany or Australia.
[18:32:53] <_methods> hahahah
[18:33:01] <_methods> those australian woodworkers are legendary
[18:33:26] <t12> next to sushi village!
[18:33:34] <andypugh> Compare and contrast: https://shophardinge.co.uk/product.aspx?partNo=16250019000468
[18:33:35] <andypugh> https://shophardinge.co.uk/product.aspx?partNo=10010017010000
[18:34:11] <_methods> yeah that's a whacky collet
[18:34:24] <_methods> i don't think i've ever seen any 4ns laying around
[18:34:41] <andypugh> More than 3x the price of a much bigger 5C. It simply isn’t fair
[18:35:37] <t12> work is very slow today
[18:35:41] <t12> i should go take something apart
[18:36:13] <_methods> http://athensga.craigslist.org/tls/4979808728.html
[18:36:18] <_methods> i need to go grab that
[18:36:21] <_methods> for $750
[18:36:34] <_methods> oh nm
[18:36:38] <_methods> not original compound
[18:37:10] <XXCoder1> if you has large machines, make your own reproduction heh
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[18:41:13] <andypugh> Right! To the workshop!
[18:41:30] <Tom_itx> TGIF
[18:42:05] <XXCoder1> tgis here heh
[18:42:17] <XXCoder1> yeserday was my "friday"
[18:42:43] <XXCoder1> I only has "tues" to "friday". fuck monday. lol
[18:48:41] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: hey
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[19:01:40] <MrFluffy> I have gearchange.0.scale2 set to 10, gearchange.0.speed-in is a float currently with value 5525 in hal monitor, and gearchange.0.speed-out is 200. How does that work then?
[19:02:39] <MrFluffy> 5525/10 or 5525*10 does not equal 200.
[19:09:06] <MrFluffy> *lightbulb* I am requesting a speed above the max1 value in low gear...
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[19:15:04] <Computer_barf> humm ok now I got linuxcnc runs and all and I am evidently successfully connecting to my mesa card, I turn on the power for the machine in linuxcnc and try to move the x axis, it makes a light click sound and it pops up "joint 2 following error"
[19:15:35] <Computer_barf> but pretty good considering im just using pcw's configuration file
[19:17:19] <PCW> you might set the ferror settings wider in the ini file
[19:17:57] <Computer_barf> i was getting some other message previously but figured out i needed to run the jitter test and update the figure
[19:18:21] <Computer_barf> ok looking for ferror
[19:19:46] <PCW> what CPU and Ethernet chip?
[19:20:08] <Computer_barf> well its a asrock q1900
[19:20:17] <PCW> OK
[19:20:21] <Computer_barf> i would have to look up the specifics
[19:20:46] <Computer_barf> i picked the board based on someone else having it and a 7i76e
[19:20:50] <PCW> thats a Realtek mac chip
[19:21:36] <Computer_barf> ok i see ferror on each axis , any suggestion on what i should put it at?
[19:21:51] <Computer_barf> or is that based on something to do with my hardwear?
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[19:22:24] <PCW> there's both ferror and min-ferror
[19:22:49] <Computer_barf> i will be so very excited today if I can lift my z axis
[19:23:20] <Computer_barf> i got a pretty good thrill from the click
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[19:24:29] <PCW> you will also probably have to set reasonable step/dir timings to match your drives
[19:24:30] <PCW> and acceleration and velocity limits
[19:25:14] <unfy> did something i never thought i'd ever do today.... put snake oil into vehicle to buy some time ._.
[19:25:31] <Computer_barf> how many snakes did you have to press
[19:26:05] <unfy> 1 really big one to get a pint of oil ... it's kinda handy that their mouths continue to open / close after they're dead.
[19:26:38] <Computer_barf> I perfer banana oil
[19:26:58] <unfy> or perhaps 'essence of mechanic' ?
[19:28:00] <unfy> sadly, this makes things complicated for cnc work... i'm tempted to replace my truck with an econo car. econo cars make hauling plywood, mdf, acryllic, etc difficult :(
[19:28:36] <MrFluffy> Its not snake oil if it works
[19:28:51] <unfy> so far, it is indeed working.
[19:30:03] <MrFluffy> heavier oil, or radweld or something equally as bad?
[19:30:34] <Computer_barf> ok so i can bug pcw less, can you guys suggest how might i determine the ferror , min ferror for my machine? do I look up my steppers or driver specs?
[19:30:36] <XXCoder1> unfy: use truck only for hauling and keep it?
[19:31:32] <PCW> Computer_barf: what are they currently?
[19:31:59] <Computer_barf> FERROR = .0002
[19:32:00] <Computer_barf> MIN_FERROR = .0001
[19:32:14] <Computer_barf> well , at least for the first axis
[19:32:51] <Computer_barf> yes their all set to that
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[19:34:51] <unfy> conklin dike - radiator / coolant leak stuff. there's a leak from the timing chain cover which calls for 10-11hrs of labor to replace. truck aint worth that, soooo...
[19:35:51] <unfy> xxcoder: thinking about it. if stays sealed for a while it might be worth keeping it as such... that way can easily continue to work on cnc stuff <3
[19:36:42] <Computer_barf> I've hauled mdf on top of a smart car
[19:37:06] <XXCoder1> unfy: alternate is find a nice ecocar with ability to tow stuff
[19:37:11] <unfy> yeah, i'd look into some kind of roof racks or something, even if they're the strap-through-windows kind heh
[19:37:39] <unfy> econo car with a trailor hitch. giggling to myself :D
[19:37:47] <Computer_barf> I built a custom roof rack for the smart car, i did alot of crazy things with it
[19:37:55] <XXCoder1> unfy: yeah but it does exist
[19:38:30] <XXCoder1> Computer_barf: saw a pic of a vw beetle that was converted to truck
[19:38:32] <XXCoder1> crazy.
[19:39:00] <PCW> Computer_barf try setting them 10 times higher to start
[19:39:10] <Computer_barf> k
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[19:41:21] <Computer_barf> same deal , joint 2 following error
[19:43:44] <Computer_barf> going to look up my drivers for step/dir timings, acceleration, velocity limits
[19:44:03] <PCW> when you jog X? thats weird
[19:44:27] <Computer_barf> z
[19:44:37] <Computer_barf> it clicks on x too
[19:45:14] <Computer_barf> but yes just checked , joint 0 on x
[19:45:20] <PCW> OK, other than ferror, did you change any settings in the hal or ini files?
[19:45:30] <Computer_barf> just the ip address
[19:46:17] <PCW> hmm where did you get that file? (my example has a 10.10.10.10 IP address)
[19:46:42] <Computer_barf> from the linuxcnc forums
[19:47:37] <Computer_barf> something you had posted pertaining to the 7i76e, perhaps its not current
[19:48:20] <Computer_barf> my drivers are kl-5056D,kl-8070D
[19:49:00] <PCW> i would not worry about the drivers yet
[19:50:01] <Computer_barf> if you point me to a diffrent file I would be happy to give it a shot
[19:51:50] <PCW> I would run the latency-test
[19:52:26] <PCW> or perhaps latency-histogram
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[19:53:00] <Computer_barf> i previously rand it and got 14060516 on the top bold number
[19:53:20] <Computer_barf> and 15057284 on the bottom bold number
[19:53:50] <Computer_barf> sorry i believe I also change that in the .ini
[19:54:05] <PCW> well 15 ms of latency is not going to work at a 1KHs thread
[19:54:15] <_methods> lol
[19:55:04] <Computer_barf> is my machine operating at an unusually large latency? i don't have a reference point from any previous experience
[19:55:36] <PCW> I suspect you are not running a preemt RT kernel
[19:56:10] <Computer_barf> that's strange i did the whole kernel compiling process
[19:57:18] <Computer_barf> i compiled three diffrent ones , i could try rebooting and trying some of the others
[19:57:44] <_methods> why don't you just use one of the regular images?
[19:58:03] <_methods> you're adding unnecessary complexity to an already complex process
[19:58:45] <Computer_barf> someone had told me to , i don't recall the reason, something wasn't working with the one I had
[19:59:05] <Computer_barf> i definantly didn't WANT to compile a kernel
[19:59:44] <Computer_barf> i think it had something to do with the eth requirement
[20:00:02] <_methods> i think all you needed to do was update your apt source list
[20:00:20] <Computer_barf> i did
[20:00:22] <_methods> PCW: 2.7 works with the 7i76e right?
[20:00:23] <PCW> if you compiled a kernel and you are running the compiled kernel, you probably did not set the preemt-rt config options
[20:00:52] <_methods> or do you need master?
[20:01:11] <Computer_barf> PCW: when i got to the kernel compile, I did the "fully premptable" option
[20:01:35] <PCW> yes. 2.7 is ok but the 3.2 rt kernel that comes with wheezy is dismal
[20:01:45] <_methods> ah
[20:02:06] <PCW> what does
[20:02:08] <PCW> uname -a
[20:02:10] <PCW> print?
[20:02:31] <Computer_barf> 3.18.11-rt7 #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Apr 29 07:58:53 EDT 2015 i686 GNU/Linux
[20:04:10] <Computer_barf> i could reboot and try some of the other kernel compile attempts
[20:04:15] <PCW> well that's the right kernel but if you have 15 ms latencies, i'll bet the preemt_full option was not set
[20:04:25] <Computer_barf> i know it offered more than one option in the config that said premptive
[20:05:15] <Computer_barf> let me reboot and see if any of the other kernels are faster
[20:05:22] <Computer_barf> brb
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[20:08:29] <Deejay> namd
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[20:10:15] <Computer_barf> ok it looks like i only have one other kernel there so i think older ones were being overwritten, and the second oldest one didn't boot. If my memory serves me correctly, i believe on the second kernel compilation attempt i went with the "fully prempable" option
[20:10:28] <Computer_barf> and the most recent attempt I did something else with the words premptable in it
[20:10:41] <Computer_barf> so i suspect that PCW is right and that my current kernel is not fully premptable
[20:11:02] <Computer_barf> and that probably means this is gonna take a bit, knowing how long it takes to compile the kernel on this machine
[20:11:48] <PCW> you can try my config file also if you like
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[20:12:06] <Computer_barf> sure, where might I find it?
[20:12:50] <Computer_barf> and by config file do you mean a config file for the kernel or a .ini for linuxcnc?
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[20:15:17] <PCW> no, kernel config file
[20:15:42] <_methods> i'd like to take a look at that too
[20:15:50] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com/rtconfig
[20:15:57] <_methods> if i'm going to go with a 7i76e and 7i77
[20:16:00] <_methods> thx
[20:17:20] <Computer_barf> methods: if you like when i get there I can give you my notes on the proceedures I used in accordance to pcw's advise
[20:17:27] <_methods> i'd love that
[20:17:39] <_methods> especially since i guess i'll be going through the same thing
[20:17:47] <Computer_barf> he's given me a bunch of links and such
[20:18:02] <_methods> might be less hassle to just do the 5i25/7i76/7i77 though
[20:20:41] <Computer_barf> i believe i probably need to give this text file a specific name for the compile procedure to recognize it
[20:21:27] <Computer_barf> probably replace the .config with it, right?
[20:21:50] <PCW> yes you need to copy it to .config
[20:22:06] <PCW> in the linux-3.18.11 directory
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[20:22:29] <Computer_barf> k yes that's where im at
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[20:24:17] <_methods> heheh preempt_lazy
[20:24:22] <_methods> sign me up
[20:25:55] <_methods> PCW: so what's the issue with 3.2?
[20:29:43] <PCW> lousy performance, poor support of newer hardware
[20:30:44] <_methods> oh well that's nice lol
[20:30:57] <_methods> so much for improving forward hehe
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[20:31:40] <PCW> Its really not that hard to make a Preemt-rt kernel and 3.2 is ancient
[20:32:09] <_methods> what what kernel are you recommending?
[20:32:14] <_methods> 3.18?
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[20:33:31] <PCW> yeah (3.2 is from 2012)
[20:34:51] <_methods> so is 4.x supported in RT?
[20:39:26] <PCW> not yet (3.18.11-rt7 is the latest)
[20:40:15] <Computer_barf> _methods: http://pastebin.com/LrWJNcKF
[20:40:35] <Computer_barf> i mostly just made commentary on what PCW gave me
[20:41:27] <Computer_barf> line 14 should be skipped
[20:43:21] <Computer_barf> ill report on how my kernel compile goes when i get there, knowing how long it takes, im gonna go to the pool
[20:44:21] <PCW> yeah that config enables every single driver known to man
[20:44:53] <Crom> and woman, child, and idiot
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[20:49:48] <Crom> just started the pastebin commands
[20:50:14] <Crom> 3.2 is older, 1.3.68 is old
[20:50:37] <andypugh> _methods: I have lost the scrollback.. Were you looking at Harrison Horizontal mills?
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[20:55:07] <Crom> hmm P4 is 32bit
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[21:05:25] <MrFluffy> i finally have the scaler, the gearchange and step directions etc all configured in hal and the bridgeport spindle within 10rpm or so of the S speed from 20rpm to 3000, not sure if pleased I managed it, or displeased it took me so long to figure it out. Now all I need to do is figure out a way for the gui to tell me I am in the wrong gear when I request a S value outside the range of the current gear...
[21:07:58] <MrFluffy> ufny: if you put rad sealer in, it sometimes blocks the small tubes in the radiator long term and causes odd overheating issues... 10hrs work to replace...wow.
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[21:13:25] <Crom> hmmm time to find a better mother board for this machine... 2004ish socket 478 MB with a Family 15 model 3 P4 2.8Ghz
[21:16:18] <andypugh> Well, isn’t that annoying. My short little indexable end-mill takes LPKT inserts, and everybody else seems to use APKT.
[21:16:31] <andypugh> LPKT080304 seem super-rare
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[21:22:24] <MrFluffy> This guy had a few & relisted 3 times, but he hasnt put them back on yet, might be worth a cheeky message if they are of use to you? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-X-LPKT-007-080304-29-ASC-350-LATHE-TOOL-INSERT-R2-/111657298177?
[21:23:13] <andypugh> It says “you bought5 this item” :-)
[21:23:18] <MrFluffy> Or, http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Glendower-Carbide-Insert-LPKT-080304-PVD-9-Inserts-Only-/400896254899?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d574763b3
[21:23:28] <MrFluffy> you havent bought them yet :)
[21:23:53] <MrFluffy> 9 inserts for 35 quid, not a bad deal
[21:23:54] <andypugh> No, but thats £35! I need to get at least half way through the bottle of wine :-)
[21:26:47] <MrFluffy> I stay off ebay after alcohol. Some of my most unadvised purchases have been made under the influence of vodka...
[21:26:54] <MrFluffy> ill advised even
[21:27:09] <MrFluffy> oh look a cheap pcmm, Im sure I can make it work...
[21:27:38] <MrFluffy> cue months long voyage of discovery into the proprietory locked up world of hexagon metrology products...
[21:27:48] <XXCoder1> lol
[21:27:50] <Deejay> gn8
[21:28:15] <XXCoder1> glad that wont happen to me anytime soon.
[21:28:23] <XXCoder1> plenty other stupid ways though lol
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[21:28:37] <MrFluffy> I got it working, but lifes too short for that sort of adventure
[21:28:56] <MrFluffy> even now its not accurate, because it needs going in a jig and setting up, and now they dont service older arms
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[21:32:46] <MrFluffy> Hexagon told me on the phone when I called support for something that helping me would be like giving an addict more crack.
[21:33:18] <MrFluffy> Ive never actually been compared to a junkie before by a vendor...
[21:33:38] <XXCoder1> lol
[21:33:57] <XXCoder1> thats nice excuse to screw you over on support
[21:34:27] <MrFluffy> there is no support now for the older serial based arms, their recommendation is to skip them and buy a newer one
[21:35:50] <MrFluffy> I happen to know a large manufacturer in the uk had to take all their romer pcmm arms out of service and replace them because they refused to calibrate them as they were declared obsolete. And the configs are locked up with a password known only to hexagon. Unless you have time and IDA, but we wont discuss that.
[21:36:39] <MrFluffy> and this... this right here is why linuxcnc is brilliant.
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[21:41:57] <XXCoder1> jeez
[21:42:09] <XXCoder1> yeah glad goverment started it
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[22:18:12] <_methods> yeah those arms are a nightmare
[22:18:30] <_methods> i used to have to deal with a romer and that other company that makes them
[22:18:33] <_methods> faro
[22:18:41] <_methods> the faro was even worse than the romer
[22:18:47] <_methods> at least romer used pcdmis
[22:20:28] <MrFluffy> not if you dont have a dongle that works, they refuse to replace broken dongles
[22:20:47] <_methods> romer/hexag0n?
[22:21:00] <MrFluffy> then your stuck with winRDS and intergrating it to rhino or similar. Why was the faro so bad? I hear they are less robust but more open
[22:21:11] <MrFluffy> yes, pcdmis is dongle hardlocked
[22:21:24] <MrFluffy> my arm came with TWO dongles originally, neither of which worked...
[22:21:25] <_methods> yeah the scales would break all the time and the software is total shit
[22:21:40] <MrFluffy> but then the arm didnt either, and it was missing the psu
[22:21:55] <MrFluffy> I actually found one of the 68000s floating round inside a arm section
[22:22:08] <_methods> faro=plastic trash
[22:22:32] <MrFluffy> I admire the hardware and design of this, but the proprietoryness of it is annoying
[22:22:42] <_methods> i'd take a romer over faro any day
[22:23:04] <MrFluffy> its laid out as a series of rs485 connected boards so the slip joints on the infinite series only transmit serial data thats acked and voltage
[22:23:16] <MrFluffy> no encoder wires, pretty neat design
[22:23:44] <_methods> and i'd take a real cmm over both any day lol
[22:23:58] <MrFluffy> but, winrds, they lock all the encoder offsets and other data thats flashed into the arm with a password and wont give it out
[22:24:14] <_methods> yeah they are extremely dickish
[22:24:25] <MrFluffy> the newer ones are rolling code inside too
[22:24:26] <_methods> i don't feel bad about pirating/hacking any cmm related stuff
[22:24:43] <_methods> they rape without remorse
[22:24:59] <MrFluffy> yes but you need a arm jig to reset one too
[22:25:18] <_methods> yeah i dn't think you can ballbar it
[22:26:05] <MrFluffy> I dont even have the length standard it should come with, I hope to get a friend to make two holes in a length of durabar to use and check it on his cmm
[22:26:59] <_methods> meh if i never see one of those arms again as long as i live i'll be happy
[22:27:12] <_methods> thing was a nightmare trying to get it to even remotely be repeatable
[22:27:18] <_methods> especially between operators
[22:27:31] <MrFluffy> yes its easy to flex the finger Ive noticed
[22:27:38] <MrFluffy> theres a technique for sure
[22:28:02] <_methods> yeah and techniques are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink
[22:28:16] <MrFluffy> I have the 12ft reach model without the zero weight addon so its heavy on the shoulder too
[22:28:37] <_methods> yeah like fighting a drunk octopus
[22:28:46] <MrFluffy> but for what I want it for, taking bolt circles off engines and reverse engineering, setting up car chassis points etc, it should be ok
[22:29:02] <MrFluffy> I paid the broke price anyway, so Im not too sorry
[22:29:17] <_methods> well i went to the school there in charlotte
[22:29:30] <_methods> and they had a race car chassis there they were doing with the laser attachment
[22:29:35] <_methods> that seemed to work pretty well
[22:29:45] <MrFluffy> heh the perceptron probes
[22:29:50] <_methods> so if i was ever to get one again it would be with that laser scanner thing
[22:29:52] <MrFluffy> I know a bit about them too...
[22:29:57] <MrFluffy> far more than I want...
[22:30:01] <MrFluffy> I have 3, of the probe heads
[22:30:20] <MrFluffy> another ill advised ebay purchase. And perceptron are great as a company, really helpful
[22:30:22] <_methods> bill scott racing
[22:30:31] <_methods> tthey had the floor moving model
[22:30:44] <MrFluffy> except... Im missing the special interface with all the cpu logic in ... so I have 3 very nice laser head desktop ornaments
[22:30:51] <_methods> ouch
[22:31:07] <MrFluffy> and... thats what they were given out as. Pulled as obsolete from stores brand new, and given out to salesmen to give out as trinkets
[22:31:13] <MrFluffy> they traced my serials back for me.
[22:31:46] <_methods> that's dirty
[22:31:53] <MrFluffy> I cant fault them, completely different customer experience than romer/hexagon
[22:32:03] <MrFluffy> but, cest la vie as they say here
[22:32:18] <MrFluffy> I watch ebay for a interface module...
[22:32:48] <MrFluffy> I have a friend in the uk who has used them and he told me to go buy them as they were the business. Seems he didnt notice the big box halfway down the leads on his one...
[22:33:23] <MrFluffy> it connects with a X cable to the host pc running their software daemon
[22:33:31] <_methods> yeah
[22:33:35] <MrFluffy> because the romer serial network cant cope with the data rate
[22:33:43] <_methods> even when you have the legit one it barely works half the time lol
[22:34:01] <MrFluffy> the newer 7 axis arms went intergrated because they are networked internally to cope I think
[22:34:41] <_methods> i always dreamed of having a zeiss
[22:34:45] <_methods> one day lol
[22:34:47] <MrFluffy> I just had this vision of scanning curved objects with a funky laser scanner
[22:34:59] <XXCoder1> holy crap I can finally delete old addresses on paypal!
[22:35:05] <XXCoder1> its been YEARS
[22:35:09] <MrFluffy> I made the makerscanner , but I was very disappointed with it
[22:35:15] <_methods> but then i'll have to learn their calypso crap
[22:35:43] <MrFluffy> linuxcmm, it cant be that far from linuxcnc genetically :-)
[22:36:01] <_methods> i think there are
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[22:36:13] <_methods> pretty sure PCW linked to it the other day
[22:36:16] <XXCoder1> MrFluffy: yeah
[22:36:18] <MrFluffy> a pcmm is a 6 axis robot with no motors
[22:36:54] <XXCoder1> MrFluffy: Much of code can be reused. just need to figure how to do some stuff
[22:37:08] <XXCoder1> we need "linus" for cnc stuff programming darn lol
[22:37:58] <MrFluffy> its come a long way, 3d printing is pushing lots of minds to thinking about it too
[22:38:28] <MrFluffy> I was impressed at slic3r and cura when I started tinkering with a printrbot
[22:41:41] <MrFluffy> I am just a bodger of things personally, so its easy for me to be impressed by stuff
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[23:08:17] <Tecan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukGKVKa_XgE you guys wont believe this
[23:08:28] <Tecan> harring bone rack and pinion plates made out of stone
[23:10:56] <andypugh> I suspect that they are more likely to be actual herring bones made from stone.
[23:11:45] <andypugh> Why would I not believe that an ancient Bosnian could carve chevrons in a rock?
[23:12:04] <MrHindsight> http://www.thebiggesthoaxinhistory.com/en/
[23:12:52] <XXCoder1> MrHindsight: the real hoax? dvds. lol
[23:13:07] <andypugh> My favourite… https://klimtlover.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/two-bison.jpg 10,000 BC and still there in a cave.
[23:15:37] <XXCoder1> andypugh: http://chuckleaduck.com/comics-archive/2012-12-28OT174Venus.jpg heh
[23:15:39] <andypugh> If you are interested (and this involves watching a 45 minute TV programme) this shows how archeaologists can generally tell when they are being scammed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6QBFmIlaWs
[23:16:23] <MrFluffy> question, is there a way for the gearchange component to know a speed demanded by a S code is outside the range of the current gear?
[23:16:51] <andypugh> The gearchange component is actually fairly useless :-)
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[23:17:16] <andypugh> How many gears do you have?
[23:17:22] <MrFluffy> Ive got it working to do high low on my bridgeport
[23:17:26] <MrFluffy> on the spindle
[23:17:52] <MrFluffy> but I want it to ask me to shift to low for below 250rpm, because the vfd would spin the motor too slow for my liking in high
[23:18:07] <andypugh> Ah, OK, it’s fine for 2 ratios. But can’t do any more. There have been at least 3 attempts to fix that that didn’t get mainstreamed
[23:18:41] <MrFluffy> right now, the S asks for 50rpm in high, it just sets it then gearchange hard limits itself to the lower speed configured for that gear in its hal config as far as I can see it
[23:19:00] <MrFluffy> the spindle is open loop
[23:20:03] <MrFluffy> ok, so your saying it doesnt do that, its not just a case that I havent read the right bit of some man page correctly...
[23:20:19] <andypugh> No, it doesn’t do very much
[23:20:22] <MrFluffy> i mean it cant work out that the rpm asked for is in another gear
[23:20:34] <MrFluffy> id have to do something clever in logic myself to do that
[23:20:39] <andypugh> Look at the comp code, it is very simple.
[23:21:12] <MrFluffy> ok, I will in time, right now I need to get everything else working better, I was just hoping for a quick win.
[23:21:15] <andypugh> What I would do, if I was a version of you with lots of spare time, is write a comp to automatically shift gear for me
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[23:22:22] <MrFluffy> A sort of if below min rpm for that gear, check other gears see if the S is in their range then prompt to shift to that, but in code logic. Ok, for the future though. Time is a bit short supply
[23:23:02] <MrFluffy> I think I want to get a bigger machine when I get the barn done, something with a carousel toolchanger and more rigidity, so trying to learn stuff on this little interact.
[23:24:24] <andypugh> I wrote a new component this week that pokes HAL pins in sequence, and does waiting for results. Could be used to cut the VFD, plonk switch gears with a pneumatic cylinder, then re-engage the VFD
[23:25:04] <andypugh> I have not heard the phrase “Little Interact” before :-)
[23:25:10] <MrFluffy> I kind of like to shift it by hand, I feel reassured when I feel it clonk into engagement on the dog teeth, but yes.
[23:25:20] <MrFluffy> The series1 interact is half the size of the later ones, it is little
[23:25:20] <andypugh> My Harrision is small, my Mini Mill is Little
[23:25:46] <MrFluffy> its got less travel on the table than my little universal mill
[23:25:48] <andypugh> I want a Huron. They are such a solid design.
[23:26:05] <MrFluffy> manual is a Arno, thats pretty robust and 40iso in the taper
[23:26:22] <andypugh> http://www.cottandco.com/media/lot/4f8973ed6ef2348597b7e017cc4e1fd26d5d782b.jpg
[23:26:56] <MrFluffy> look at the cylinders at the front to stop table sag... I bet it needs them.
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[23:28:11] <andypugh> I like the way that the Y is on the ram (like Deckels) so there isn’t a 3-way stack-up of slop
[23:28:36] <zeeshan> hi
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[23:28:49] <andypugh> And that universal head is lovely. You can point the tool in almost any direction
[23:29:11] <zeeshan> andypugh: problem with Y ram thing is
[23:29:13] <zeeshan> you cant adjust knob
[23:29:15] <zeeshan> *knod
[23:29:26] <zeeshan> at least i dont know how to :P
[23:29:32] <MrFluffy> shims :)
[23:29:34] <andypugh> nod?
[23:30:02] <andypugh> No, you need to trust the machine to be made right.
[23:30:02] <zeeshan> rotation about X axis
[23:30:49] <andypugh> The Huron head can point the tool any outwards angle. But not inwards
[23:31:14] <zeeshan> hm
[23:31:17] <MrFluffy> You would need encoders on both the axis and the kinematics programming into the control
[23:31:28] <andypugh> They are not automated
[23:31:51] <MrFluffy> I thought you meant to convert one to cnc ultimately
[23:32:06] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: i have a speed shifting python script that a linuxcnc user wrote
[23:32:07] <zeeshan> for his maho
[23:32:13] <zeeshan> theres 18 gear selections
[23:32:18] <andypugh> But I have been thinking about making my mill into a virtual 5-axis. I could jog the B to where I put it with spanners, then feed in W
[23:32:22] <zeeshan> maybe it might be of benefit
[23:32:43] <MrFluffy> do you have a link to it zeeshan?
[23:32:52] <zeeshan> i can upload
[23:32:54] <MrFluffy> Im always interested in learning even if I dont implement it yet
[23:33:05] <andypugh> I wrote a setup for my Harrison (with standard components) that just works out for itself what gear I put it in.
[23:33:34] <MrFluffy> Ill have to add a spindle encoder for that first, yes I built a vfd controlled head and didnt add a encoder...
[23:33:41] <MrFluffy> shoot me now
[23:34:07] <MrFluffy> I just needed to get it working asap at the time
[23:34:23] <zeeshan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wt7wp7mj7cd275z/mahoshifter.py?dl=0
[23:35:32] <MrFluffy> thats very nice, speeds in an array and logic to select
[23:35:38] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/oakville-halton-region/micrometer-set-mitutoyo-0-300mm/1066175339?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[23:35:48] <zeeshan> do you guys think this is worth it for $125
[23:36:04] <andypugh> MrFluffy: http://linuxcnc.org/dapper/emc2/emc2/index.php/italian/forum/47-hal-examples/27071-automatic-spindle-gear-detection
[23:36:08] <MrFluffy> I could wire the motor up for its internal second speed (its a two speed motor butchered by someone into single speed) and have four gears..
[23:36:09] <zeeshan> i have mics upto 12" in inches already
[23:36:13] <zeeshan> but not in metric :P
[23:36:29] <andypugh> zeeshan: Hell yes
[23:36:50] <zeeshan> i dunno what i'd do wit hthem lol
[23:37:20] <andypugh> Though it depends if you need that $125 for food
[23:37:31] <zeeshan> i need that 125 for cat40 holders :(
[23:37:37] <MrFluffy> rice is cheap
[23:37:51] <zeeshan> i could buy 2 shell mill holders for that
[23:38:12] <MrFluffy> so are cat40 holders if you pick them up secondhand when they come up cheap...
[23:38:28] <zeeshan> yea dude i bought some a while ago so cheap
[23:38:36] <zeeshan> they are all made in usa too!
[23:38:43] <zeeshan> but all the shell mill adapters are sizes i dont need
[23:38:52] <zeeshan> like 1.25" 1"
[23:38:54] <zeeshan> i need .75"
[23:38:59] <MrFluffy> I use clarkeson autolock chucks, they kind of spoilt me
[23:39:19] <zeeshan> cat40?
[23:39:21] <MrFluffy> and I can thread the thread for the biggest size in my harrison
[23:39:33] <MrFluffy> yes, I have 40 taper in my manual mill
[23:39:39] <zeeshan> iso40 or cat40
[23:39:41] <zeeshan> or bt40
[23:39:53] <MrFluffy> the difference is in the drawbar I have to pick up :)
[23:40:01] <MrFluffy> the taper is all the same
[23:40:10] <MrFluffy> I just have 3 drawbars to cover them all
[23:40:43] <MrFluffy> its different if you need pullstuds etc for a autochanger, but this is a old manual
[23:41:37] <andypugh> MrFluffy: An alternative gearchange comp. I think it is better. It disapppoints me that it didn’t become the mainline comp http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/4043/focus=4238
[23:41:50] <MrFluffy> I have a 200mm fly cutter with a insert in the largest autolock shank fitting I made for it, its great for cylinder heads.
[23:42:19] <andypugh> That one has an output to say you are in the wrong gear,
[23:42:23] <MrFluffy> autolocks tighten up if they dig in and it forces the tool into a taper inside which keeps it all taut and locked up.
[23:43:10] <andypugh> MrFluffy: And sometimes rams the cutter so hard into the collet that they are joined for life.
[23:44:19] <MrFluffy> Andy, Ive had to use a very large spanner, but they always come out in the end.
[23:44:37] <MrFluffy> I have a bit of scaff tube that slips over my big clarkeson wrench :)
[23:45:10] <MrFluffy> They never fall out though if something comes loose, they just self tighten
[23:49:44] <zeeshan> well with iso40
[23:49:48] <zeeshan> there is an extended nub
[23:49:56] <zeeshan> that wont work with my machine
[23:52:00] <andypugh> MrFluffy: You can get the collet out the holder. You can’t always get the cutter out of the collet. Mainly if the thread on the cutter is short or the point in the holder is worn (or missing, as I have seen once)
[23:53:07] <andypugh> In the latter case the cutter did’t screw in and close the collet, it screwed in hard against the ends of the threads and still wobbled.
[23:53:31] <zeeshan> andypugh: whats your experience with using big end mills with collets?
[23:53:46] <andypugh> I don’t tend to.
[23:53:53] <zeeshan> at what size do you stop?
[23:54:07] <andypugh> Well, I guess that depends on what you mean by “big”
[23:54:17] <zeeshan> 3/4" and bigger
[23:54:17] <MrFluffy> Ive had a couple bottom out, thats caused mostly by not setting the gap between the body and clamp nut correctly in my limited personal experience
[23:54:25] <andypugh> I don’t have any collets bigger than 20mm
[23:54:50] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: by bottom out youre saying having them pull out?
[23:54:57] <andypugh> I have a nice big shell mill, but that is on a proper arbour.
[23:55:17] <MrFluffy> no andy was saying about the tools bottoming out in the collet thread, the autolock the tooling threads into the collets
[23:55:33] <MrFluffy> then a front piece forces the lot onto a taper inside the body of the chuck
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[23:55:48] <zeeshan> ah
[23:55:58] <zeeshan> that is what those weird threaded end mills are for :D
[23:56:19] <MrFluffy> yes, I like them a lot personally, but its a marmite thing I think.
[23:56:28] <zeeshan> i should send you the one i have
[23:56:30] <zeeshan> that ill never use.
[23:56:31] <andypugh> My favourite mill has turned out to be a really short 20mm indexable cutter, and that is Weldon shank. I only bought it because it was cheap, but actually despite only beng 26mm long it is exceptionally useful and very stiff.
[23:56:42] -!- doc|work has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[23:57:40] <andypugh> I “get” autolock. I appreciate the cleverness. I have seen them fail a lot where people don’t understand them
[23:57:47] <MrFluffy> I had some fc series and they always seemed to run off slightly, but the qc30 I have is the first weldons I owned
[23:57:48] <SpeedEvil> Is marmite a threadlock or an anti-seize?
[23:58:03] <MrFluffy> either, its better than eating the stuff :)
[23:58:21] <andypugh> Marmite is lovely :-)
[23:59:08] <zeeshan> i think i fucked up my indexable end mills
[23:59:09] <zeeshan> :(
[23:59:11] <MrFluffy> I bought a iso50 autolock holder by accident once, and I still have nightmares about the size of machine that must have been fitted to.
[23:59:24] <MrFluffy> I wondered why the shipping was so high, then it arrived...
[23:59:39] <andypugh> Who had the interact?
[23:59:51] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mill-toolholder-chuck-milling-lathe-cutter-cnc-joblot-Bridgeport-Interact-Bnib-/191570765568?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
[23:59:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm Oh - I thought this used marmite, but it is an inferior clone.