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[00:24:48] <furrywolf> unfortunately, those cat ear headphones appear to be yet another crowdfunded product that never actually showed up
[00:25:33] <furrywolf> they wanted $250,000. they got $3,423,606. they shipped 0 headphones.
[00:26:24] <LeelooMinai> Sounds like a good deal to me
[00:26:38] <malcom2073> kickstarter did a statistic, the greater the overshoot, the more the delay
[00:27:29] <malcom2073> But, it was only something like 3% that got funded never actually delieverd, as opposed to those who delievered a year to 2 late (90%? I forget, but it's high)
[00:27:42] <furrywolf> I'm beginning to think such crowdfunding sites should require people to secure a bond for twice their expected funding before being allowed to post, and if they exceed that, their campaign is paused until they secure an additional bond, etc.
[00:28:04] <furrywolf> and their lawyer's contact information should be required.
[00:28:14] <malcom2073> furrywolf: Start a site for that
[00:28:19] <malcom2073> Make a kickstarter to fund it
[00:28:20] <malcom2073> :P
[00:28:47] <furrywolf> lol
[00:29:41] <LeelooMinai> And name the project "An Experiment to Prove that Overfunded Projects do not get Delivered, Ever"
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[00:44:04] <andypugh> The whole point of Kickstarter is a way to raise the money to make stuff from the potential buyers. If you need to secure funding first then you might as well make the stuff in advance too, then just sell it
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[00:49:24] <andypugh> I subscribed to one Kickstarter with a May 2014 estimate. Still nothing…
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[00:55:04] <renesis> furrywolf: investment = risk
[00:55:14] <renesis> startups failing is normal
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[01:21:25] <Tecan> https://netpipe.ca/shop
[01:21:38] <Tecan> i could cut you guys a deal on a printed linear axis
[01:22:36] <furrywolf> grrr. my internet is sucking excessively tonight.
[01:22:38] <Tecan> my prices are steep because i really dont feel like selling anything
[01:23:08] <Tecan> radius rulers for 5 dollars
[01:24:52] <jdh> NET::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID
[01:25:27] <Valen> if you have a bond, you don't really need to kickstart it
[01:25:52] <furrywolf> are you selling $0.99 chinese usb sound devices for $15?
[01:26:32] <Valen> no, but I wouldn't mind
[01:26:54] <Valen> I'd rather sell 50 cents worth of cable to people for $10,000 though
[01:27:34] <furrywolf> also, your store sucks. it claims you have items in categories, then you click on the categories and there's fewer or no items.
[01:28:39] <Valen> http://www.audioquest.com/ethernet/diamond $10k for an ethernet cable
[01:28:44] <furrywolf> lol
[01:28:58] <Valen> now that's my game
[01:30:17] <furrywolf> I want to sell liquid metal audio cables for ungodly stupidly high prices. just some NaK in clear hoses...
[01:31:17] <roycroft> you probably would have better luck selling your overpriced junk on ebay
[01:31:21] <roycroft> or just toss it in the trash
[01:31:59] <Valen> Tecan: if you are going to use https then get a real cert,
[01:32:40] <Valen> furrywolf: what is this substance you mention?
[01:32:55] <furrywolf> ?
[01:32:57] <Valen> also, its plausible I'd buy such a product, just because it was cool
[01:32:59] <Valen> NaK
[01:33:04] <Valen> sodium potassium?
[01:33:21] <roycroft> AcK
[01:33:52] <Tecan> furrywolf haha yeah like i said i dont really want to sell anything atm so prices are set high
[01:33:53] <furrywolf> yes
[01:34:15] <Tecan> people with bitcoins like to spend them sometimes
[01:34:19] <furrywolf> just get tubing like
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61pFHzN5hjL._SL1500_.jpg , fill it with NaK, install appropriate terminations, sell for $20,000 a length...
[01:34:56] <furrywolf> leave country before someone cuts one and burns their house down...
[01:34:57] <Valen> Â NaK is highly reactive with water and may catch fire when exposed to air
[01:35:03] <Valen> ok I won't get that one
[01:35:10] <furrywolf> lol
[01:35:13] <Valen> one of the gallium based ones thanks
[01:35:32] <furrywolf> gallium is absorbed through your skin and nicely toxic iirc...
[01:35:41] <Valen> eh, that I can deal with
[01:35:44] <Valen> don't eat it
[01:36:02] <Valen> its less toxic than mercury, which isn't really that bad
[01:36:14] <Valen> (the organomercury compounds are the real issue)
[01:36:14] <furrywolf> organomercury compounds are no fun
[01:37:18] <furrywolf> I just think you could sell such a product for stupidly ungodly high prices.
[01:37:35] <Valen> its not a terrible idea tbh
[01:37:45] <Valen> I wonder what the conductivity would be
[01:38:08] <Valen> oh, it'd kinda suck in real terms due to the skin effect, but still cool lol
[01:38:22] <furrywolf> who cares? they can't tell the difference between $5000 cables and unbent coathangers.
[01:38:37] <Valen> I'm not disagreeing
[01:39:27] <furrywolf> someone actually did a blind a/b test of that once. they couldn't tell the expensive cables apart from unbent coathangers. :P
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[01:42:22] <furrywolf> bah, looks like someone already sells them.
[01:42:33] <Valen> link?
[01:43:10] <furrywolf> "Treble was silky smooth, perhaps a little rounded off but also pleasantly spacious. Reverberation and resonances lingered on longer rather than quickly vanish as they do on some cables." I hate audiophiles.
[01:43:22] <furrywolf> http://www.teoaudio.com/about.php
[01:46:15] <Cromaglious_> I much prefer the sound out of 12awg SJT then 16awg SJT extension cords hacked apart to make speaker cables
[01:46:29] <furrywolf> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/teoaudio2/liquid.html
[01:46:42] <furrywolf> Review Component Retail: $1,249 PDL interconnects, $9,995 SPDL speaker cables
[01:46:57] <Cromaglious_> anything over 3000' I'd rather run a 900mhz remote then run 12awg SJT all the way
[01:47:14] <Valen> if you don't take some snips to them how do you know they are actually liquid metal
[01:47:21] <Valen> not .25c chinese copper
[01:48:03] <Cromaglious_> though my longest speaker line was 2800'
[01:48:54] * furrywolf notes that 3000ft of 12/3 sjt is cheaper than 3ft of many premium speaker cables. :P
[01:48:54] <furrywolf> also, sjt? eww. use soow. :P
[01:49:18] <Valen> 3000ft? people run speaker cables that far?
[01:49:25] <Cromaglious_> running EV 100W 70v first speaker was at 1500' and 8 speakers in the run.
[01:49:26] <Valen> i mean in the modern day
[01:50:02] <Valen> thats almost a kilometer in real measurements ;-P
[01:50:19] <Cromaglious_> Valen Airshows... Sacramento was a 4500' speaker line, Hillsborogh was a 5600' speaker line
[01:51:06] <furrywolf> what, the airport objects to a few watts of off-the-shelf audio transmitter?
[01:51:14] <Cromaglious_> running 700w to 1000w channel 70v amps
[01:51:16] <Valen> I bet you hope there are no lightning strikes anywhere at all near you lol
[01:51:48] <Cromaglious_> oh I'm well grounded
[01:52:27] <Cromaglious_> The costco 1000w inverter gensets for the sissor lift speaker stacks running 900mhz remotes
[01:53:31] <furrywolf> the costco ones they have a big mound behind the store because they have a stupidly high return rate? :)
[01:53:38] <furrywolf> yellow... champion I think.
[01:53:42] <Cromaglious_> 6 hours at show volume. so fill up in the morning, fillup at 1/2way, at sundown, fillup the next morning,
[01:54:03] <Cromaglious_> no the red ones with the yamaha engines
[01:54:16] <furrywolf> they stopped with the yellow ones and got some orange ones, which seem marginally more reliable... now the stack of them fits on a paller.
[01:54:18] <Cromaglious_> inverter, not the champion pieces of crap
[01:54:19] <furrywolf> pallet
[01:54:43] <furrywolf> yes, these are inverter ones. but I don't think they have any name-brand components.
[01:54:49] <Cromaglious_> oops kawasaki not yamahoppers
[01:55:21] <Cromaglious_> well it was years ago... 2007 or 8
[01:55:54] <furrywolf> http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/12/127d26d7-defc-46d5-8e1e-9816196a65f4_300.jpg do not buy. ~100% return rate.
[01:56:20] <furrywolf> at least I saw just as many of them in the pile out back as in receiving. lol
[01:57:05] <furrywolf> I have a honda eu3000is... I like it. I had two, but one got stolen. :(
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[01:57:43] <furrywolf> http://www.costco.com/Smarter-Tools-2000-watt-Parallel-Capable-Inverter-Generator-with-Yamaha%C2%AE-Engine.product.100121916.html those are what they have now... much smaller stack, but they still manage to fill pallets.
[01:58:44] <furrywolf> then again, the primary purchaser of generators here is growers who want to run lights 16 hours a day out in the woods...
[01:59:49] <furrywolf> that reminds me, I need to summerize my generator.
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[02:03:48] <Cromaglious_> “The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.”-Alexis de Tocqueville
[02:03:50] <Cromaglious_> "We're screwed." -Me
[02:04:54] <Cromaglious_> boss has a honda eu6500i NICE!!!!!
[02:05:19] <Cromaglious_> 8 hours at 3/4 load easy!
[02:06:07] <furrywolf> I have the parallel cable to connect two eu3000is generators together... too bad I now only have one generator.
[02:06:21] <Cromaglious_> I have a DP-7100 (5800W) 240v diesel quiet power generator myself
[02:06:54] <furrywolf> I lent it to a friend of my landlord. his garage got broken into, and among other things, his bmw and my generator got stolen. they probably used the bmw to steal the generator. cops found the bmw, but no generator.
[02:07:36] <Cromaglious_> yeah I need to chain my genset to something in the concrete
[02:08:02] <furrywolf> then said friend of my landlord got into a domestic dispute, allegedly kidnapped the whore he was screwing (and giving drugs to), led the cops on a chase (in the bmw they just returned to him), and now is in jail for a very long time. so I can't even beat the cost of a generator out of him.
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[02:08:41] <Cromaglious_> I also have a cheap gas 2cycle 1000w non-inverter that works great. Takes a bit of time to spin up my skil mag-77 worm drive and runs it at 80% speed... but it works
[02:09:41] <furrywolf> I have a non-inveter 2200W honda and a 24V 100A DC diesel genset.
[02:09:41] <Cromaglious_> it runs 6 hours on abuot 3/4 gallon good for charging phones and cordless batteries.
[02:10:27] <Cromaglious_> I also have a 2000w mid '70s generator and a craftsman 4kw B&S motor genset in the side yard
[02:10:55] <Cromaglious_> the 4kw fell out of the truck and broke the motor mounts
[02:11:15] <furrywolf> the diesel is military surplus... a 5hp yanmar diesel engine with a 24V marine alternator bolted to it.
[02:11:17] <Cromaglious_> 9 years ago and I still haven't fixed it
[02:11:47] <Cromaglious_> nice, just got to find a 24cv inverter to get 120/240 off of it
[02:12:12] <furrywolf> my welder has a 6000W 120/240 output, but it makes such a fucking racket and uses so much gas you'd never want to use it as a generator.
[02:12:40] <furrywolf> I have an off-grid solar system, with a 24V main battery bank. I not only have a 24V inverter, but it's powering my house at this very moment.
[02:12:41] <Cromaglious_> it's meant to run the grinders while yout welding
[02:13:10] <Cromaglious_> lincoln or miller?
[02:13:54] <furrywolf> perhaps with the factory exhaust it wasn't too bad... but with the mufflers on it now, you can't be within 100ft of it without hearing protection. when you're not welding, you kick it down to idle so you can hear...
[02:13:54] <Cromaglious_> I wish I had grabbed my granddads old 1956 Lincoln welder on the trailer
[02:14:21] <Cromaglious_> nice flathead still ran like a top when my dad sold it RUNNING!
[02:14:23] <furrywolf> lincoln
[02:15:22] <furrywolf> http://cm-enterprises.com/WELDIN13.jpg one of those. old.
[02:16:22] <Cromaglious_> bah that's NEW!
[02:16:25] <furrywolf> I got it cheap because it had a broken slipring. fixed the slipring, and found out it has a blown diode. replaced the diode, and.... it sucks. I'm not sure what's wrong. it seems to work great 99.9% of the time, but every 3-10 seconds the output glitches just long enough to kill the arc and royally piss you off.
[02:16:58] <Cromaglious_> throttle solenoid or the SCR powering the solenoid?
[02:17:07] <furrywolf> I can't find any bad connections, slip rings are running true, everything LOOKS good...
[02:17:17] <furrywolf> no, it's not throttle-related. it's a glitch for ~1 cycle.
[02:17:21] <furrywolf> electrical
[02:17:36] <Cromaglious_> brush?
[02:17:42] <t12> thermal cycling in some power semiconductor?
[02:17:44] <Cromaglious_> oh slipring..
[02:17:47] <furrywolf> it's glitching for a tiny fraction of a second, just long enough to extinguish the arc
[02:18:01] <furrywolf> it does it even in AC mode, which doesn't have any power semis involved.
[02:18:14] <furrywolf> brushes and sliprings look good, no excessive arcing
[02:18:36] <furrywolf> it started doing it about a minute after I replaced the diode... it welded FUCKING GREAT for that minute.
[02:18:53] <Cromaglious_> hmmm try a bigger diode?
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[02:19:10] <furrywolf> in AC mode the diodes aren't used, and it glitches still
[02:19:24] <t12> any coorelated generator sound
[02:19:33] <furrywolf> I even disconnected the diodes to make sure it wasn't one randomly shorting
[02:19:44] <Cromaglious_> that sounds like a mechanical connector that might be thermal.. does it do it not welding
[02:19:46] <furrywolf> occasionally it'll glitch for longer, and the engine unloads
[02:20:12] <t12> arcing in generator coil?
[02:20:26] <Cromaglious_> time constant? do you get longer time on smaller rod?
[02:20:37] <Cromaglious_> lower amperage?
[02:20:53] <furrywolf> I spent a full day about a box of rods trying to find the problem. my 'scope was useless... the voltage and current involved is so noisy that you can't spot a glitch as different from the normal arc
[02:21:14] <furrywolf> it glitches less at a full power, more at very low power
[02:21:24] <furrywolf> power is a tap switch, no electronics
[02:21:29] <Cromaglious_> now that's weird
[02:21:55] <furrywolf> it's not temperature related... it'll do it as soon as you turn it on, and won't get worse or better no matter how much you try welding.
[02:22:19] <Cromaglious_> it's just power related
[02:22:25] <furrywolf> it does it on both CC and CV, which don't share a lot of parts...
[02:22:44] <Cromaglious_> that sounds more like it's in the amature
[02:22:46] <furrywolf> I'm leaning towards a cracked or shorting winding somewhere
[02:23:03] <Cromaglious_> start ohming out windings
[02:23:16] <furrywolf> guess what? when it's off, they're all perfect. :P
[02:23:51] <furrywolf> what I didn't do, that I've been meaning to do and haven't had the chance, is stick my 'scope on the 120V output, load it up, and see if there's any glitches in it.
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[02:24:14] <furrywolf> if the 120/240 is glitching too, that puts it in the rotor, as the mains and welding stator windings are completely isolated.
[02:24:23] <Cromaglious_> thinking higher RPMS at lighter loads might make it more of a centrifical force issue
[02:24:45] <furrywolf> the governor works very well. no load to full load is less than 50 rpm.
[02:26:38] <furrywolf> I had to set the governor, and it regulates quite precisely.
[02:26:42] <Cromaglious_> 50rpm just might be enough
[02:27:29] <Cromaglious_> try setting the gov a little bit lower
[02:28:00] <furrywolf> next project is watching the AC output.
[02:28:03] <Cromaglious_> it might be a harmonic which will short something to something else
[02:28:06] <furrywolf> but, it's on loan to someone, and it's a bitch to move.
[02:28:41] <Cromaglious_> welding in 50 second strands?
[02:29:24] <furrywolf> that's not what I meant. The first time I powered it up and tested it, after replacing the diode, it welded perfectly for about a minute, then started glitching. the glitching never went away, and it does it immediately when turned on.
[02:30:08] <furrywolf> might have been a couple minutes
[02:31:06] <furrywolf> before that I hadn't ran it other than brief tests, as first it had a missing slipring, and then when I fixed the slipring and got output, I found it had a shorted diode... it'd run the governor up to full throttle and output 8V. didn't work too well. :)
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[02:32:38] <Cromaglious_> hmm would a 120w CO2 laser cut steel?
[02:32:47] <furrywolf> the diode started out open, and it was working well in AC mode for a couple quick tests. I then switched it to DC motor, found low voltage, tried welding, then the diode shorted and stayed that way. I suspect it'd been bad for a while, but they were using it for AC, and didn't notice since it was open...
[02:32:57] <furrywolf> s/dc motor/dc output
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[02:33:34] <furrywolf> nice big diodes. had to find a 1+1/4" wrench to change them. :)
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[02:37:01] <Valen> Cromaglious_: probably not
[02:37:24] <Valen> perhaps shim or something though?
[02:37:31] <Valen> air assisted cutting perhaps?
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[02:38:55] <Cromaglious_> I'm seeing 150w cutting steel on youtube
[02:39:02] <Cromaglious_> and ne 130w
[02:39:13] <Cromaglious_> s/ ne / one /
[02:39:47] <furrywolf> I need to build a plasma table one of these days. Before that, I need to make my plasma cutter work...
[02:40:53] <Cromaglious_> wow 150w are around $2k
[02:40:57] <furrywolf> I have a plasma cutter that should do a clean 1/2" cut and a passable 5/8"...
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[02:42:40] <Cromaglious_> hmm US made, shipped $10K
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[02:46:23] <zeeshan|2> anyone use mastercam?
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[02:54:44] <Tecan> 100 watt plasma can do 1 1/2 inch plate iirc
[02:55:47] <furrywolf> mine's 55A I think... don't remember. lol
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[02:56:01] <Tecan> 50 amp you can do 1/2"
[02:56:15] <Tecan> sever cut with a cnc
[02:56:56] <Tecan> 3/4 - 1 "probably doable at slower speeds
[02:57:10] <Tecan> not sure on that one though
[02:57:39] <furrywolf> you can cut anything if you don't mind it spraying all over and ruining nozzles. lol
[02:58:11] <Tecan> 2" to 2 1/2" i use a toch heat up a loonie size red spot punch it then start the cut
[02:58:43] <Tecan> its actually not too bad
[02:58:56] <Tecan> even the super hard stuff
[03:00:12] <furrywolf> I've never seen mine work... bought it used and needing gun parts, haven't had time and money to fix it.
[03:01:55] <Cromaglious_> Haven't had the money or real need to get a plasma cutter
[03:02:33] <Cromaglious_> What I need is a steel cutting mill or engraver
[03:03:27] <furrywolf> what I need is time, money, and energy. lately I'm short all three.
[03:03:29] <Cromaglious_> ok I lied, I need a AL cutting mill or engraver and would be really chuffed to get one that could do steel
[03:04:39] <furrywolf> craigslist?
[03:06:38] <Cromaglious_> money
[03:07:22] * furrywolf knows that problem too well
[03:07:41] <furrywolf> my machine needs a vise, collets, a 7i76e, an enclosure, and time...
[03:08:13] <Tom_itx> mine needs to be put back together
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[03:10:23] <zeeshan|2> i need a new cnc lathe
[03:10:35] <zeeshan|2> furry what kind of collets do you need
[03:11:13] <furrywolf> I'm thinking an er25 set and a mt3 er25 chuck
[03:12:15] <furrywolf> like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191461204587 and
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280747744891
[03:12:19] <furrywolf> just need to have spare money
[03:12:22] <Cromaglious_> what size shaft would good for a ER25? 12mm
[03:13:38] <furrywolf> my mill/lathe combo isn't particularly rigid... no need for really large collets.
[03:13:39] <Cromaglious_> been looking at a rc helicopter 8mm shaft 3ph dc brushless motor driving a 12mm spindle shaft
[03:14:19] <furrywolf> keep in mind the ratings on r/c parts are often imaginary, and "the battery will go dead before it really overheats" at best.
[03:15:13] <t12> been thinking about getting a weiss lathe
[03:15:21] <t12> unsure what to expect
[03:15:23] <Cromaglious_> with a 1:5 belt reduction a 24K motor would turn the shaft at 4800 rpm
[03:16:08] <zeeshan|2> t12
[03:16:09] <zeeshan|2> which one
[03:16:16] <t12> http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-1127-VF.html
[03:16:20] <Cromaglious_> no battery, thinking a/c switching supply at like 60amp at 12v
[03:16:29] <zeeshan|2> dont do it!
[03:16:33] <zeeshan|2> buy an old cnc lathe!!
[03:16:40] <zeeshan|2> dont make the same mistake as me :P
[03:16:41] <t12> i have alot of physical space/weight limits
[03:16:42] <t12> haha
[03:16:45] <t12> did you buy the same one
[03:16:52] <zeeshan|2> i have a similar chinese lathe
[03:16:53] <zeeshan|2> 12x36
[03:16:57] <zeeshan|2> that i converted to cnc
[03:17:02] <t12> do you hate it
[03:17:03] <zeeshan|2> its the biggest piece of shit
[03:17:04] <furrywolf> Cromaglious_: again, a lot of r/c stuff depends on low duty cycle to avoid melting down.
[03:17:14] <Cromaglious_> I have a 1945 Sheldon 10" with 26 between centers
[03:17:17] <zeeshan|2> i can only say that cause i have a cnc mill that i retrofitted
[03:17:18] <t12> which make, whats shitty about it
[03:17:20] <zeeshan|2> and its like 2193128093218 better
[03:17:25] <furrywolf> if you run it off a real power supply rather than a few minutes at a time off a battery, it'll die in about ten minutes.
[03:17:26] <zeeshan|2> busybee, made in taiwan
[03:17:31] <zeeshan|2> you cant take serious cuts with it
[03:17:37] <zeeshan|2> you dont have a proper tool changer
[03:17:44] <zeeshan|2> backlash issues with linearmotionbearings crap
[03:17:48] <zeeshan|2> no positional feedback
[03:18:01] <zeeshan|2> cant hold big parts without shaking the whole lathe
[03:18:02] <t12> what about for non-cnc general use
[03:18:16] <zeeshan|2> its pretty good for that
[03:18:18] <t12> which model?
[03:18:28] <zeeshan|2> http://www.busybeetools.com/products/lathe-12in-x-36in-2hp-gear-head-craftex-cx.html
[03:18:31] <furrywolf> that is one nice thing about my shoptask... it may be chinese, but it does weigh 600lbs.
[03:18:52] <zeeshan|2> to give you an idea of weight compariosn vs made in usa lathe
[03:19:00] <zeeshan|2> youre looking at 1000lb for this lathe vs 4000lb for made in usa
[03:19:05] <zeeshan|2> (like a monarch)
[03:19:10] <t12> yeah
[03:19:11] <zeeshan|2> and vs cnc youre looking at 6000lb
[03:19:14] <t12> i mean i'd love a 4000 lb lathe
[03:19:21] <furrywolf> my sherline lathe weighs 15lbs. :P
[03:19:21] <t12> but i dont have a loading dock or a fork lift or a giant concrete pad
[03:19:28] <zeeshan|2> haha furrywolf
[03:19:39] <furrywolf> the mill is 25lbs or something
[03:19:47] <zeeshan|2> t12: i guess it depends on what you do with your lathe
[03:19:48] <t12> i dont care so much about cut capacity
[03:19:52] <t12> as just holding tolerances
[03:19:52] <zeeshan|2> for me, i get frustrated so much when i use it
[03:20:00] <zeeshan|2> it holds 1 thou in X
[03:20:02] <zeeshan|2> and 3 thou in Z
[03:20:12] <t12> and being adjustable enough to keep holding them
[03:20:12] <zeeshan|2> but that is on a good day :-)
[03:20:25] <furrywolf> I'm sure you could use your lathe to make objects that relieve frustration...
[03:20:40] * furrywolf figures everyone with a lathe makes at least one stainless dildo
[03:20:45] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om4HDvJstsU
[03:20:49] <zeeshan|2> this is me parting steel in it
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[03:22:26] <zeeshan|2> i love the chip breaker on those inserts
[03:22:51] <t12> that isnt bad
[03:23:12] <furrywolf> I need a parting tool... have neither tool nor holder for my shoptask.
[03:23:25] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: it took me a while to buy it.
[03:23:35] <zeeshan|2> people want 150$ for the holder
[03:23:36] <zeeshan|2> lol
[03:23:43] <zeeshan|2> i finally bit the bullet and ordered from china
[03:23:49] <zeeshan|2> still cost like 80$ for the block + blade
[03:23:57] <zeeshan|2> + 40 for insert pack of 10
[03:24:09] <zeeshan|2> thats a big expensive in my books for a lathe tool :p
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[03:24:12] <zeeshan|2> *bit
[03:24:27] <t12> lol at ow ow hot chip hot chip
[03:24:35] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[03:24:40] <zeeshan|2> damn steel
[03:25:10] <furrywolf> what did your expert say about carbide circular saw blades?
[03:25:18] <zeeshan|2> he was useless
[03:25:19] <zeeshan|2> lol
[03:25:27] <furrywolf> lol
[03:25:44] <t12> i guess i could go old southbend or something
[03:25:51] <t12> that seems like its just as big a pita
[03:25:54] <zeeshan|2> I was looking at a cold sawing process and am confused on how the blades are surviving. They typically advertise that they can cut at speeds of ~5000-8000sfm (1500m/min - 2500m/min) and get 1800" (46m) in 1/4" thick steel flat bar. The blades are typically have carbide teeth with a slightly positive rake. How do the carbide teeth survive this sort of cutting condition? I would think the cutting ed
[03:26:05] <zeeshan|2> reply: Yes, the speeds are too high (by a factor of 10) ... you might want to check the recommended cutting conditions.
[03:26:14] <zeeshan|2> i dont think that answered my q
[03:26:14] <zeeshan|2> lol
[03:26:38] <zeeshan|2> t12 careful with older lathes
[03:26:46] <zeeshan|2> a lot of them dont go to high speeds
[03:26:48] <furrywolf> yes, that is rather useless.
[03:27:38] <t12> yeah my envelope limits it alot
[03:27:43] <t12> i'm more worried with old lathe about
[03:27:53] <t12> spending 20394 years recondotining it until it behaves
[03:28:14] <zeeshan|2> theres really not much to a lathe though
[03:28:37] <zeeshan|2> my understanding is if the lathe ways are worn
[03:28:42] <zeeshan|2> that just means your tool height changes
[03:28:59] <furrywolf> no, it means you have slop on one side and it jams on the other side.
[03:29:05] <zeeshan|2> causing geometric issues
[03:29:07] <furrywolf> because they never wear evenly
[03:29:12] <zeeshan|2> but when youre machining manually, you can adjust
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[03:29:27] <furrywolf> so if you tighten the gibs enough to make it not chatter on the loose spots, then it jams on the tight spots.
[03:29:43] <zeeshan|2> i dont have gibs on the main ways
[03:29:47] <zeeshan|2> just on X
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[03:32:28] <Cromaglious_> 1945ish Sheldon BMWQ 44" LWQ7323 1-3/4" 8tpi
[03:33:41] <Cromaglious_> I think my taper in the headstock is a ASSE 4.5 taper (Morse 4.5)
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[03:35:31] <t12> ahh yea looks like busy bee is also weiss?
[03:35:40] <t12> the secret chinese branding empire
[03:35:43] <zeeshan|2> i think theyre all made in the same area
[03:35:43] <zeeshan|2> haha
[03:35:54] <t12> hows the various fit and slop
[03:35:58] <t12> besides backlash
[03:36:07] <zeeshan|2> for a manual lathe it is perfect
[03:36:40] <furrywolf> even that chinese lathe is quite a bit better than anything I own, or expect to own any time soon.
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[03:39:04] <t12> alot of it is just to get alot of time in and being able to do stuff at home
[03:39:10] <t12> tired of using other peoples lathes that are fucked up
[03:39:17] <t12> and then i dont have the time or authority to fix them
[03:39:31] <zeeshan|2> having your own tools is the best!
[03:39:50] <t12> i'm kinda accepting that its going to take way too many years of sinking time into hobby shop
[03:39:59] <t12> but its not like i'm trying to make a money or meet a budget or something
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[06:20:46] <Cromaglious_> man that Grizzly G0727 is interesting to look at... Mini horizontal or vertical knee mill. quill doesn't extend. and no nod just rotate
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[06:24:42] <Cromaglious_> G0795 looks decent. though the spindle only gots to 1420rpm
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[06:28:09] <Cromaglious_> G0762 is even better looking with VFD and power feed on the X but it's $2600 though RPMS goes to 2500
[06:33:24] <archivist> or for similar money get an older stronger industrial mill
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[06:44:37] <Deejay> moin
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[08:36:24] <RyanS> so if a thread cut on a lathe starts to deviate from the correct pitch after five or so threads, is that likely because I disengaged the half nut and manually traversed the carriage ?
[08:37:44] <RyanS> also had compound at 0° rather than 29°
[08:45:25] <Tom_itx> if you singlepoint a thread on the lathe, you need to pick up the same index mark on the next pass or it will screw up the thread. no pun intended (maybe)
[08:47:30] <RyanS> heh, but doesn't it match on the second pass if you use the same point on the threading dial?
[08:48:12] <SpeedEvil> It should
[08:48:29] <Tom_itx> give it some lead in so you take up the slop in the carriage first
[08:48:37] <Tom_itx> if still not, you got bigger problems
[08:49:48] <RyanS> i guess the spindle rotation has to be synchronised with the lead screw, that's difficult to do by manually traversing the carriage
[08:50:08] <Tom_itx> that's what the index dial and auto feed are for
[08:50:51] <RyanS> I realised that after reading up :)
[08:51:33] <Tom_itx> also, remember where your depth was on the first pass so you can increase it
[08:53:09] <RyanS> but 29° on compound is wierd, I prefer to use the DRO on x to change depth.... why stuff with the compound dial
[08:54:08] <RyanS> CNC lathes advance thread cutting depth on x surely
[08:54:10] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/thread1.jpg
[08:54:15] <Tom_itx> that was fun to single point
[08:54:19] <Tom_itx> 3tpi
[08:54:36] <Tom_itx> about 1.25" D
[08:54:43] <RyanS> UNC?
[08:54:57] <Tom_itx> i guess
[08:55:05] <Tom_itx> probably custom
[09:02:08] <RyanS> hmm, because im in Australia, cheapish used lathes, if they are available are humongous, 3 phase. so my Chinese 300x900mm lathe had a motor replaced, the feed gearbox had loose gears. Some idiot had seemingly thumped the endgears onto the shafts because the keys and keyways were burred... fun
[09:03:00] <RyanS> I'm too scared to open the gearbox covers, I don't know what's lurking inside
[09:03:10] <RyanS> rats maybe
[09:09:23] <renesis> spiders are worse
[09:09:26] <renesis> because spiders
[09:10:33] <RyanS> spiders stabilize a long bar sticking through the spindle bar :)
[09:10:45] <RyanS> bore
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[09:15:50] <RyanS> ...thats not a small toolbit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VK8JfhD_FxY#t=395
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[09:25:55] <XXCoder> yo
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[10:27:39] <RyanS> hahaha "I've always found the BA series amusing. It's a number system (0 to 22ish), dimensioned in God-Given Inches to the Nth place of decimals and British To The Core. Actually, the British Association pulled a fast one. The numbers hide the fact that it's a metric system, dimensioned in logical numbers of Communistic French Millimetres" post on practical machinist
[10:29:44] <archivist> it has always been metric, it is a copy of a Swiss thread, no french involved
[10:31:30] <RyanS> idk, but i just like the way he wrote that
[10:32:43] <DaViruz> what's a BA series?
[10:32:59] <RyanS> threads
[10:33:12] <DaViruz> ah
[10:33:37] <archivist> British Association a thread standard they came up with
[10:33:46] <DaViruz> frankly i find all systems refering to anything but the direct dimensions atrocious
[10:34:00] <archivist> based on the swiss Thury standard iirc
[10:36:07] <DaViruz> number and letter drill sizes comes to mind..
[10:38:55] <archivist> number an letter get you an in between size from the other standards
[10:40:11] <archivist> not that your screw pitch will be anywhere near the spec :)
[10:40:38] <DaViruz> sure but why just not name it by the actual size
[10:42:13] <archivist> its like the old sheet gauges too, but there would have been a gauge they used to check it, not a micrometer
[10:43:16] <DaViruz> and wire gauges. and shot gauges
[10:43:57] <DaViruz> seems like a very roundabout way of doing it, even back then
[10:44:27] <archivist> dunno, measuring equipment was rare in the old days
[10:46:19] <XXCoder> I saw 1960s ones today
[10:46:28] <XXCoder> caliper and millimeter
[10:49:24] <archivist> yes but the number and letter series were probably from late 1890's early 1900's
[10:52:56] <XXCoder> cool
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[11:27:44] <RyanS> unusual slideway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=f2y36EGHpts#t=74
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[13:03:59] <zeeshan|2> early morning machinig
[13:04:00] <zeeshan|2> !
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[13:19:44] <linbox> Hello
[13:20:00] <linbox> I need some help
[13:20:27] <SpeedEvil> Cut the red wire.
[13:21:23] <linbox> I installed virtualbox guest additions and now linuxcnc does not run. Any suggestions.
[13:23:19] <_methods> no idea on that
[13:23:32] <_methods> that's why i don't install other stuff on my linuxcnc boxes
[13:23:59] <malcom2073> linbox: Did guest additions install a diifferent kernel?
[13:25:06] <linbox> No, I don't think guest are tools just to make the virtualbox to work better
[13:25:35] <malcom2073> Right, how do you think they do that? (Hint: kernel modules) :P
[13:25:40] <SpeedEvil> It sounds like that would be a new kernel for me
[13:25:42] <SpeedEvil> to me
[13:26:13] <linbox> i'm using 2.6.7
[13:26:29] <linbox> this is the kernel 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae
[13:26:41] <malcom2073> You could try blacklisting the vbox kernel modules see if that helps?
[13:26:54] <linbox> okay
[13:32:45] <zeeshan|2> rofl @ cut the red wire
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[13:33:56] <malcom2073> How I'd wire bombs:
https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/971433_10151623225174022_1637938704_n.jpg?oh=eb14fb8f6e0947c333a7fe0f4d1b345d&oe=55D32BFA
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[13:36:05] <archivist> we once wired a boat with red wire only, if red it must be the right wire was the theory
[13:46:44] <linbox> malcom2073 I uninstalled vbox guest additions and now linuxcnc works again.
[13:47:23] <malcom2073> linbox: Does it fail when you run in simulation mode with vbox guest additions installed?
[13:47:42] <linbox> yes it does
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[13:48:38] <malcom2073> How does it fail? What error does it give?
[13:48:49] <malcom2073> pastebin the command line output?
[13:49:04] <linbox> is a long list
[13:49:09] <malcom2073> That's why I said pastebin
[13:49:10] <malcom2073> :P
[13:49:31] <malcom2073> You could always just install ubuntu, and install the simulator on that
[13:49:43] <malcom2073> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Pure_Simulator
[13:49:49] <malcom2073> That's what I use in a vbox
[13:49:58] <linbox> okay let me see if I can find the log
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[14:03:56] <linbox> malcom2073: do you know if I can use that in ubuntu 14.04?
[14:04:03] <malcom2073> linbox: I do not know
[14:05:11] <linbox> malcom2073: okay I'm going to see if I can download ubuntu 12.04 to install the same version you have installed.
[14:05:35] <malcom2073> linbox: I'm running the simulator on 10.04
[14:05:49] <malcom2073> I've not tried it on 12.04, but it should be possible as the page states to compile it
[14:06:52] <linbox> malcom2073: did you compile it on 10.04?
[14:06:56] <malcom2073> linbox: No
[14:07:35] <linbox> malcom2073: are you running the latest version on 10.04?
[14:07:46] <malcom2073> linbox: Likely not, it's about a year old
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[14:08:30] <linbox> malcom2073: okay thank you, I'll be back after I finish.
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[15:49:04] <JT-Shop> just my luck the spindle pulleys are shot too
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[15:53:37] <_methods> what happened?
[15:54:03] <JT-Shop> rebuilding the riding lawn mower deck
[15:54:17] <JT-Shop> the center blade fell off somewhere sometime
[15:54:56] <_methods> oh
[15:55:06] <_methods> you never found it?
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[16:07:08] <JT-Shop> nope and me and the dog walk all over the mowed areas twice a day
[16:07:28] <JT-Shop> I think it might have spun off the last time I shut the deck down
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[16:19:09] <_methods> heh i'm sure once you get a nice shiny new blade on there it will find it immediately lol
[16:20:34] <jthornton> lol
[16:21:40] <archivist> the damage the out of balance remains causes is fun too, one blade fell off my car water pump, I removed the opposing blade, carried on, the water pump then came off busting the radiator :)
[16:22:21] <jthornton> I hate when that happens
[16:23:24] <archivist> I just blocked up the holes in the block and ran total loss for a few weeks till I managed to get spares off another car,
[16:23:44] <archivist> I was cruel to that heap :)
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[16:44:59] <Tom_itx> jthornton any storms brewin that way yet?
[16:45:08] <Tom_itx> we're due for some it seems
[16:46:33] <Tom_itx> although the radar looks clear
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[16:47:56] amnesicz is now known as amnesic_away
[16:54:28] <renesis> was a light tstorm out of nowhere last night
[16:54:38] <renesis> i thought the kids next door were taking flash pictures
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[17:01:19] <Tom_itx> mmm they're saying golfball size hail & tornados
[17:02:34] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/hail/hail4.jpg
[17:02:42] <Tom_itx> in case you don't know what a golfball is...
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[17:35:05] <JT-Shop> rained a bit while I was napping
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[17:55:32] <JT-Shop> well I just ssh from here to the hardinge
[17:56:19] <Tom_itx> get the hdd set up?
[17:56:19] <JT-Shop> no, I'm connected to the cave computer the one I could not ssh out of
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[17:56:26] <Tom_itx> been workin on a couple here
[17:56:43] <JT-Shop> I still need to put the other 2TB in the cave computer and set up backuppc
[17:56:58] <Tom_itx> trying to figure permissions in win7 so i can move files around
[17:57:14] <Tom_itx> is it gonna be a backup pc?
[17:57:56] <Tom_itx> i could use this mb for a backup once i move the asrock board to this
[17:58:04] <Tom_itx> it's pretty slow for anything else
[18:00:31] <andypugh> My Mac HD had an unrecoverable error earlier in the week. I was forced to reformat the drive. Which actually was much less of a problem than it sounds and the system walked me through it. Restart holding command-R to boot from the recovery partition, reformat the drive using the Disk Util, then press the re-install OS button. I was asked for my Wifi Password, and it ran off to the APP store and downloaded the OS. Then it
[18:00:32] <andypugh> spotted my Time Machine backup and restored everything. Amazingly painless really. Though it took a while.
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[18:05:07] <Tom_itx> heh
[18:05:30] <Tom_itx> the 'on' switch on mine is a wire dangling from the mb right now
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[18:21:31] <Cromaglious_> backup? what's that?
[18:22:39] <Cromaglious_> I tend to just have multiple copies spread around multiple computers.. somewhere there is a cron job that backs up my documents dirs, temp dirs to the different machines
[18:22:48] <Cromaglious_> fun part is finding everything
[18:24:25] <Cromaglious_> oops.. I haven't installed it on this machine yet
[18:24:32] <archivist> I made a script one time to take check sums of the source and kept it in a database so I know whether source or backup is corrupted
[18:25:11] <JT-Shop> andypugh, I got it to do something once but not boot up
[18:28:42] <Tom_itx> i've heard of ppl freezing the hdd to try to recover files
[18:28:59] <archivist> and heating
[18:29:09] <Tom_itx> never tried it personally
[18:30:18] <archivist> I have a seized up drive from my old lappy, heating and sharp rotational taps have not got it running
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[18:37:06] <JT-Shop> seems like the ubuntu computers are refusing connection on port 22... I can ssh from them to a debian computer
[18:37:22] <JT-Shop> so I assume it is some configuration in the ubuntu computer
[18:37:40] <JT-Shop> but first I need to upgrade the firmware on the 7i77
[18:37:53] <cradek> I think ubuntu didn't install openssh-server by default
[18:40:12] <_methods> yeah it always helps to make sure it's installed lol
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[18:41:28] <JT-Shop> yea, it is not installed... a new thing for me lol
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[18:49:03] <JT-Shop> I'm sshing now but the 7i76 is not cooperating with the update
[18:58:17] <JT-Shop> this is the errors I get while trying to update the 7i76
http://pastebin.com/pEb4HqyN
[18:59:29] <ffurrywol> No idea. You need to send it to me so I can test it.
[18:59:49] <malcom2073> Pssst, you're supposed to /nick PCW_2 before you do that :P
[18:59:49] <ffurrywol> try being root?
[19:02:07] <XXCoder> heys
[19:03:35] <ffurrywol> lol
[19:06:32] <_methods> sudo sammich
[19:07:48] <XXCoder> sudo /op XXCoder
[19:08:52] <JT-Shop> same error as root
[19:09:56] <ffurrywol> hrmm
[19:12:59] <_methods> you gettting any errors in dmesg abot that pci interface not being found?
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[19:15:49] <JT-Shop> I'm guessing I didn't get the 5i25 firmware updated as it is 31
[19:16:27] <_methods> http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-09-05.html
[19:16:59] <_methods> i guess you had a similar problem a few years ago hehe
[19:17:32] <_methods> <PCW> I take it back I can get update7i77 to work with current master
[19:17:32] <_methods> [19:30:10] <PCW> the complaint about setsserial not existing in /proc/modules is what you get
[19:17:34] <_methods> [19:30:12] <PCW> if the 7I77 is not in setup mode
[19:17:56] <JT-Shop> I moved jumper W3
[19:22:27] <PCW> dmesg should show what setsserial is complaining about
[19:23:44] <JT-Shop> is smart serial firmware version 31 the latest one?
[19:23:48] <PCW> you need host (5I25) fimware version 35 or newer to be able to update sserial remotes
[19:24:00] <PCW> latest is 42
[19:24:12] <JT-Shop> is that at freebymesa.something?
[19:24:26] <PCW> 31 is at least a couple of years old
[19:24:38] <PCW> maybe 3 years
[19:26:17] * ffurrywol still doesn't own any mesa products. :(
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[19:37:15] <ffurrywol> "Deputies searched the vehicle Harris was driving and located numerous items consistent with burglary tools. The items included bolt cutters, zip ties, screw drivers, drill bits, gloves, and other tools commonly used to burglarize."
[19:37:39] <XXCoder> jeez
[19:37:42] <XXCoder> or to fix something
[19:38:04] <XXCoder> police and news olviously had heavy bias to criminal mindset
[19:38:18] <XXCoder> "oh look there's hammer. it must have been used to smash windows"
[19:38:40] <ffurrywol> Yeah, I apparantly run some kind of burglary warehouse, since I have more than one of every one of those things in my shop.
[19:39:41] <XXCoder> lol
[19:39:52] <XXCoder> factories must be causing crime wave
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[19:48:28] <JT-Shop> making some progress
http://pastebin.com/bpxJFtTq
[19:49:14] <Tom_itx> wow. great progress here.. just finished a well deserved nap.
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[19:54:07] <JT-Shop> nothing better than a nap on a rainy day
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[19:54:36] <JT-Shop> cleared dmesg and ran ./update7i76
http://pastebin.com/CRQE8sD0
[19:56:35] <PCW> ok should be done
[19:58:02] <PCW> the last 2 lines in update7i76 need a "echo" (but it completed correctly)
[19:58:04] <PCW> jumper for operate mode, cycle field power and you should be running
[20:02:31] <JT-Shop> ok, thanks
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[20:07:39] <JT-Shop> ok everything is updated and it runs much better on 2.7
[20:07:43] <JT-Shop> thanks
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[20:10:37] <SpeedEvil> ffurrywol: yeah - they should get to do that only if they give the whole list.
[20:10:52] micges_ is now known as micges
[20:10:54] ffurrywol is now known as furrywolf
[20:11:09] <SpeedEvil> 'And a welder, broken car starter motor and 84 packs of cheetos, which are not typically used as burglary tools'
[20:11:32] <XXCoder> lol
[20:11:37] loetmichel is now known as Loetmichel
[20:11:45] <XXCoder> cheetos is typical burglary tool
[20:11:53] <XXCoder> when get hungry, refuel
[20:12:16] <furrywolf> nah. no refueling. just more meth.
[20:12:51] <furrywolf> no need for sleep either
[20:17:12] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: haha, they should see MY car
[20:18:08] <Loetmichel> i helped a friend tow a car on wenedsday... i found a pack of chocolade/sweets that were a chhristmas present of my company while searching for the tow line in the trunk ;-)
[20:18:21] <SpeedEvil> Why would you use zip-ties in a burglary?
[20:18:40] <SpeedEvil> I mean - kidnapping, yes
[20:19:06] <Loetmichel> to immobilize any house occupants?
[20:20:12] <CaptHindsight> to quickly tie things to your utility belt
[20:21:09] <CaptHindsight> you don't want that diamond tiara slipping out of your hands as you make your get-away
[20:21:39] <furrywolf> I think you greatly overestimate the class of the burglers here.
[20:24:28] * Loetmichel once had to open his door at home with a lamiated card (actually: with my passport) becaue i forgot the keys inside and the door fell shut...
[20:24:44] <Loetmichel> ... police were at the neighbors dor questioning her...
[20:25:01] <Loetmichel> looking at me opening my door they ask "can we help you?"
[20:25:30] <Loetmichel> <- "no thanks, that happens often..." *klick* door open, less than 10 secs...
[20:25:46] <Loetmichel> police: "you do that often, dont you?"
[20:25:51] <Deejay> "can you help me carrying all the things out?" ;)
[20:25:56] <XXCoder> lol
[20:26:25] <Loetmichel> <. "thats what i just said, i am a bit hard on remembering to get my keys when getting out" ;-)
[20:27:05] <Loetmichel> no further questions asked... they have SEEn that i opened my door with my passport. they didnt even ask to see it ;-)
[20:27:13] <Loetmichel> to veryfy that i really live there ;-)
[20:27:23] <XXCoder> lol
[20:27:35] <XXCoder> well out for weekend have fun guys
[20:27:43] <jthornton> and we are sshing from the cave now
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[20:36:52] <Tom_itx> jthornton, did the new TP in 2.7 help your short moves on the plasma?
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[21:01:59] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:18:25] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: hi
[21:18:40] <andypugh> Hi
[21:19:14] <zeeshan|2> i forget but have you done any biaxial tensile tests?
[21:19:20] <zeeshan|2> you said triaxial yea
[21:20:47] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/3bEuowG.jpg
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[21:20:53] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/QfvE02j.jpg
[21:20:57] <zeeshan|2> these bands are forming
[21:21:08] <zeeshan|2> where the strain is localizing
[21:21:14] <zeeshan|2> im not sure why
[21:21:14] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:22:03] <andypugh> Lüders bands?
[21:22:13] <zeeshan|2> no
[21:22:36] <andypugh> On the substrate?
[21:22:41] <zeeshan|2> no this is film by itself
[21:22:57] <andypugh> Zeeshan bands?
[21:23:00] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[21:23:03] <zeeshan|2> maybe
[21:23:12] <zeeshan|2> i think it has something to do with the material
[21:23:19] <zeeshan|2> like the fact that its got hard and soft segments
[21:24:28] <zeeshan|2> like luder bands show up in uniaxial
[21:24:45] <zeeshan|2> and they are right in front of the plastic deformation zone
[21:24:46] <andypugh> Maybe time to remember something I was told at college. “The result of an experiment is never wrong, but sometimes it isn’t the experiment you thought you were doing"
[21:24:59] <zeeshan|2> well
[21:25:09] <zeeshan|2> i know its equibiaxial tensile test
[21:25:15] <zeeshan|2> cause i can lay major and minor strain on top of each other
[21:25:21] <zeeshan|2> and they are pretty identical
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[21:26:20] <andypugh> Can you rotate the same specimen (or a different one) and get the bands to point the other way?
[21:26:33] <zeeshan|2> i havent tried that yet
[21:26:50] <andypugh> Knowing if it follows the material or the tester would be useful
[21:27:02] <zeeshan|2> maybe it will help to show the apparatus
[21:27:37] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/zJRzJ8I.jpg
[21:27:49] <zeeshan|2> im injecting air from the other side
[21:28:56] <zeeshan|2> ill do a couple more tests
[21:28:57] <andypugh> Ah. You had shown me drawings, but I forgot
[21:29:07] <zeeshan|2> and see if there is a trend
[21:29:41] <zeeshan|2> man this is some cool stuff to work with
[21:29:50] <zeeshan|2> you blow it up to 30 psi, it forms a hemisphere
[21:29:53] <andypugh> Maybe you have invented a really sensitive way to measure the roundness of a hole :-)
[21:29:54] <zeeshan|2> release air pressure it stays somewhat
[21:30:07] <zeeshan|2> give it heat and bam its back to its flat shape!
[21:30:17] <zeeshan|2> so trippy :)
[21:30:24] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: ROFLO
[21:30:27] <zeeshan|2> that might be the case!
[21:30:56] <zeeshan|2> i did machine it at home :)
[21:31:22] <zeeshan|2> you know what im gonna do --
[21:31:25] <zeeshan|2> try it with aluminum foil
[21:31:31] <zeeshan|2> and see if it does the same thing
[21:31:31] <andypugh> They grow skin grafts on an apparatus similar to yours. The cells like a cyclic stress.
[21:31:38] <zeeshan|2> it can isolate if its to do with the fixture
[21:31:39] <zeeshan|2> or my material
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[21:31:57] <andypugh> Foil is likely to be _very_ anisotropic
[21:32:21] <zeeshan|2> maybe another plastic
[21:32:45] <zeeshan|2> or heat treat the foil
[21:32:48] <zeeshan|2> to bring it back to isotropic
[21:32:52] <andypugh> Anything callendared will be the same
[21:33:48] <andypugh> That took a lot of tries. calendered
[21:34:23] <zeeshan|2> well cant you bring it back into isotropic state
[21:34:35] <zeeshan|2> by heating it and allowing the grains to grow back uniformly
[21:34:52] <andypugh> Probably. How do you tell?
[21:35:19] <andypugh> Simpler to draw lines on the foil and test both orientations.
[21:37:04] <zeeshan|2> yes
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[21:39:38] <zeeshan|2> i wonder what the best way to control 2 solenoids is to control the chamber pressure
[21:39:48] <zeeshan|2> one solenoid lets flow in
[21:39:50] <zeeshan|2> the other lets flow out
[21:39:57] <zeeshan|2> in an attempt to maintain pressure
[21:40:03] <andypugh> LinuxCNC + PID :-)
[21:40:05] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:40:16] <zeeshan|2> i came across this:
[21:40:27] <zeeshan|2> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577231-discrete-pid-controller/
[21:40:37] <zeeshan|2> a pid controlled written in python
[21:40:55] <andypugh> Wild
[21:41:03] <zeeshan|2> i assume youd have to run this on a real time os
[21:41:06] <zeeshan|2> for it to be any good
[21:41:07] <andypugh> Arduino + C would likely work better
[21:41:54] <zeeshan|2> i have a pi2
[21:41:59] <zeeshan|2> maybe i can use it
[21:42:06] <andypugh> A PID controller is basically one line of code, that Python one is 90% Python and OOP cruft
[21:42:25] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:42:45] <zeeshan|2> 2 solenoids, 1 pressure transducer
[21:43:13] <zeeshan|2> set pressure ie 10psi , inlet solenoid opens , we note that it overshoots to 12psi
[21:43:24] <zeeshan|2> outlet solenoid opens , pressure undershoots to 9psi
[21:43:34] <zeeshan|2> inlet solenoid oepns again and pressure is now 10psi
[21:43:39] <zeeshan|2> would it kinda work like that?
[21:43:49] <furrywolf> I built a voltage-to-pressure controller once, but it was simple... just a few opamps. more of a P than a PID.
[21:44:41] <andypugh> Why not use an electronically controlled regulator?
[21:45:10] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: when i was looking at 2 way regulators
[21:45:11] <furrywolf> they're $$$.
[21:45:26] <zeeshan|2> it seems like they only compensate for line pressure fluctuations
[21:45:33] <zeeshan|2> i want the chamber pressure to be controlled
[21:45:35] <zeeshan|2> not line pressure
[21:45:51] <andypugh> You need a relieving regulator
[21:45:52] <zeeshan|2> because my sample is in a temp changing environment
[21:46:00] <furrywolf> they make pressure regulators that are voltage controlled. they're just expensive.
[21:46:02] <zeeshan|2> so lets say -10C istart test
[21:46:13] <zeeshan|2> and set to 10psi, now change temp to 40 psi
[21:46:25] <zeeshan|2> pv=nrt ~ approximation means pressure will increase
[21:46:34] <zeeshan|2> but i want to keep it constant at 10psi
[21:48:00] <furrywolf> since it's slowly changing, you don't need a lot of brains in the controller.
[21:48:07] <furrywolf> how precisely do you need it regulated?
[21:48:16] <zeeshan|2> .1 psi would be nice
[21:48:18] <zeeshan|2> http://www.omega.com/pptst/ip610.html
[21:48:25] <zeeshan|2> looks like what youre talking about
[21:48:26] <furrywolf> I have a couple off-the-shelf pressure gauges with enough brains built in to do that...
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[21:48:38] <andypugh> I think I would use a displacement-controlled piston
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[21:49:07] <zeeshan|2> id like to go from 0psi to around 60psi
[21:49:15] <zeeshan|2> actually ill be safe and say
[21:49:16] <zeeshan|2> 100psi
[21:49:20] <zeeshan|2> in 1 psi incremenets
[21:49:35] <zeeshan|2> with .1 psi resolution
[21:49:41] <Tom_itx> arduino ftw!!
[21:49:53] <andypugh> Leadscew + Piston
[21:49:56] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: that seems like more work :P
[21:50:05] <zeeshan|2> whats wrong with 2 solenoids
[21:50:32] <zeeshan|2> im confused about how when the pressure overshoots
[21:50:38] <zeeshan|2> the controlled knows which solenoid to activate
[21:50:47] <andypugh> Possibly nothing. Especially if you add extra volume do damp the PWM
[21:51:16] <zeeshan|2> *controller
[21:51:42] <furrywolf> http://www.smcusa.com/top-navigation/cad-models.aspx/22904 I have a couple of those... they have switching outputs with configurable hysteresis. you could use it to set too high (open vent solenoid) and too low (open fill solenoid) points. it doesn't do PID or anything, but it sounds like it'd be enough for your application.
[21:53:01] <andypugh> Mybe not right, but keep this link.
http://red-y.com/en/home/index.html
[21:53:12] <andypugh> USB-controlled gas-flow contollers
[21:53:50] <andypugh> We use them at work and they are very good (for the job)
[21:54:01] <zeeshan|2> they look expensive :P
[21:56:31] <furrywolf> http://www.smcusa.com/top-navigation/cad-models.aspx/127728 if you want to spend money, you can just get one of those. :P
[21:57:30] <zeeshan|2> so these types of regulators
[21:57:35] <zeeshan|2> can they sense the outlet side
[21:57:37] <zeeshan|2> and regulate?
[21:57:50] <zeeshan|2> i dont see why they cant
[21:57:51] <furrywolf> that's what all pressure regulators do?
[21:58:02] <zeeshan|2> not really
[21:58:09] <zeeshan|2> you can try it
[21:58:15] <zeeshan|2> but set your regulator to 50psi
[21:58:18] <andypugh> There are two sorts of regulators
[21:58:20] <zeeshan|2> and heat the tool its connected to
[21:58:34] <zeeshan|2> even though the tool is hot now, the pressure still is reading 50psi on the gauge of the regulator
[21:58:37] <zeeshan|2> when its much higher
[21:58:48] <furrywolf> umm... no. :P
[21:58:57] <andypugh> Some only add more gas when the pressure is too low. Others (relieving regulators) vent gas when the pressure is too high.
[21:58:57] <furrywolf> the pressure gauge reads whatever the actual output pressure is.
[21:59:12] <furrywolf> if it's reading 50, the output is 50.
[21:59:15] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: is there one that can do both? :-)
[21:59:20] <andypugh> You wouldn’t use the latter to control Flourine pressure.
[21:59:23] <furrywolf> yes, most do both.
[21:59:33] <furrywolf> but 0.1psi is not likely with a mechanical regulator.
[22:00:13] * furrywolf wouldn't use ANYTHING to control fluorine pressure, preferring to let someone else do it and stay as far away from free fluorine as possible.
[22:00:22] <zeeshan|2> what
[22:00:26] <zeeshan|2> y ou dont like the smell of flourine?
[22:00:27] <zeeshan|2> its great
[22:00:34] <zeeshan|2> refreshing
[22:01:06] <andypugh> Normally I would say use a mechanical reg, turn the knob by hand and measure the pressure rather than trying to control it. But your material means that you care about pressure history as well as the current pressure.
[22:01:32] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: yes
[22:01:53] <zeeshan|2> where i get a bit blurry is in this state:
[22:02:19] <zeeshan|2> i heat the material up, deform it to 10% strain, then drop the temperature while maintaining that strain to -10C. now i release the strain (pressure)
[22:02:30] <zeeshan|2> i monitor the strain map
[22:02:38] <zeeshan|2> materiwl doesnt change.
[22:02:50] <zeeshan|2> (there is less than <1% elastic recovery)
[22:03:00] <zeeshan|2> .01% i mean
[22:03:12] <zeeshan|2> now i increase temperature, while the pressure is 0.
[22:03:19] <zeeshan|2> the material starts to recover
[22:03:24] <zeeshan|2> but guess what, i can no longer know what the load is.
[22:03:26] <andypugh> I am still seeing a big syringe and a linear stage as your ideal pressure controller
[22:03:27] <zeeshan|2> (recovery load)
[22:03:37] <furrywolf> what about something extremely analog, like a weight on top of an airbag?
[22:03:41] <zeeshan|2> its almost like i need to decrease the pressure in stepwise increments
[22:03:49] <furrywolf> or a random air cylinder and a weight.
[22:03:52] <zeeshan|2> to be able to ensure i know the load as it recovers
[22:04:33] <furrywolf> an air cylinder and a weight generates a constant pressure as long as you don't exceed its travel.
[22:06:14] <zeeshan|2> ive been working onthis shit too long
[22:06:16] <zeeshan|2> seriously
[22:06:18] <zeeshan|2> tired of it :p
[22:06:31] <zeeshan|2> it felt good blowing a peice of it up today
[22:06:36] <zeeshan|2> only took 40psi
[22:06:44] <zeeshan|2> went kaboom
[22:06:58] <zeeshan|2> this thing is so retarded
[22:06:59] <zeeshan|2> the more you heat it up
[22:07:00] <furrywolf> just wait until you go for your doctorate. :P
[22:07:02] <zeeshan|2> the less it stretches
[22:07:14] <zeeshan|2> that still messes with my mind
[22:07:39] <zeeshan|2> no doctorate for me
[22:07:42] <zeeshan|2> cant take it anymore
[22:08:05] <furrywolf> (phd: piled higher and deeper)
[22:08:14] <zeeshan|2> i dont think a phd is going to benefit me
[22:08:21] <zeeshan|2> a masters yes
[22:08:24] <zeeshan|2> but not a phd
[22:08:37] <zeeshan|2> unless i plan to work in this field forever
[22:08:39] <zeeshan|2> f that
[22:08:42] <andypugh> PhD gets you off speeding tickets.
[22:08:49] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:09:02] <zeeshan|2> if work is going well
[22:09:13] <zeeshan|2> apparently they give you the option to finish phd in 1-1/2 years
[22:09:15] <zeeshan|2> instead of 4.
[22:09:22] <zeeshan|2> if that happens, i might linger on
[22:09:26] <furrywolf> by working 20-24 hours per day instead of 8-12?
[22:09:27] <zeeshan|2> but i still think its not going to benefit me
[22:09:42] <zeeshan|2> nah
[22:09:56] <zeeshan|2> maybe i dont know
[22:09:57] <zeeshan|2> :P
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[23:15:02] HSD is now known as HSD_afk
[23:19:55] <Jymmm> You can almost see the curvature of the horizon…
https://www.youtube.com/embed/f1BgzIZRfT8
[23:22:05] <Tom_L> don't look down
[23:23:25] <Tom_L> good spot for base jumping
[23:23:43] <andypugh> Fit man. And I bet he uses the cowstails less when not being filmed
[23:24:41] <andypugh> Some kind of base-jumping equipment would appear to be in order.
[23:25:02] <Tom_L> it would beat the climb down
[23:30:27] <andypugh> This guy talks just like you would guess that a crane—model-nerd would talk.
[23:30:33] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/embed/f1BgzIZRfT8
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[23:51:10] <LeelooMinai> You get to the top and then realize you have to pee
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[23:55:14] <jthornton> Tom_itx, yes it ran rock steady at the commanded speed of 60 IPM
[23:55:35] <Tom_itx> nice
[23:56:14] <Tom_itx> where did you dl 2.7 from?
[23:57:24] <andypugh> buildbot.linuxcnc.org
[23:57:37] <Tom_itx> i don't see it there
[23:57:48] <Tom_itx> is that master now?
[23:57:50] <jthornton> I just changed the apt line
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[23:59:41] <jthornton> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/index.html#_updating_linuxcnc
