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[00:53:26] <jdh> one single 7 hr mp3?
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[01:08:42] <renesis> sounds rude on someones part
[01:09:02] <renesis> are there still media players that have issues with gapless playback?
[01:10:51] <malcom2073> There are still people using winamp
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[01:13:31] <renesis> pfft
[01:13:39] <renesis> thats just a skin that makes it look like winamp
[01:13:42] <renesis> winamp is dead
[01:13:46] <renesis> that guy makes reaper now
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[01:16:04] <malcom2073> No
[01:16:09] <malcom2073> I mean there are people who still use winamp
[01:16:35] <malcom2073> People will always use old outdated things :)
[01:18:51] <Tom_itx> they work.
[01:25:44] <_methods> no one else has stepped in to fill the llama ass whipping void
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[01:33:08] <furrywolf> jdh: it's a recording of a live show. one 7:30ish mp3.
[01:33:49] <furrywolf> if you want to do jwz and/or archive.org a favor and cut it into tracks labeled with the artist and song name, I'm sure they'd appreciate it. :)
[01:34:15] <furrywolf> https://archive.org/details/DNALOUNGE-2015-03-27 have fun!
[01:34:21] <Cromaglious__> working on the body of my probe
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[01:35:45] <Cromaglious__> 0.755 hole in the middle, 0.200 thru hole
[01:35:47] * furrywolf would like it too, since it's hard to find out song names for small bands with no online lyrics...
[01:36:09] <Cromaglious__> I have 1 machine running winamp
[01:36:58] <furrywolf> I still use xmms on some machines, as I've yet to find another music player that'll simply add some files and play them, without needing libraries, id3 tags, etc, etc, etc, and then crashing.
[01:37:10] <Cromaglious__> just because itunes died on it
[01:37:52] <Cromaglious__> I haven't actually played mp3's on a linux box yet
[01:38:10] <furrywolf> I don't care about searching my collection by id3 tags. I don't want my files in a database. I just want to add files, and play them.
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[01:43:51] <furrywolf> how do we have a channel with "linux" in the name and people not playing mp3s on linux? :)
[01:45:49] <furrywolf> one of the most important tools in a shop is a stereo that's loud enough to drown out all the machinery within.
[01:48:18] <furrywolf> my 12x24 storage/shop has a pair of klipshs on one end, yahamas on the other, a dual 12" sub on the floor...
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[01:53:44] <cpresser> furrywolf: amarok
[01:55:35] <cpresser> furrywolf: 'gnome-music' also is quite simple
[01:55:52] <furrywolf> nothing to do with gnome is simple. :)
[01:56:58] <furrywolf> ugh, and amarok is apparantly kde.
[01:57:06] <furrywolf> a music player does not need 200MB of libraries.
[01:57:24] <cpresser> so what. i am sure you have enought diskspace.
[01:57:34] <cpresser> you can also go console. mpg123
[01:58:10] <furrywolf> and amarok also looks to be the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said I wanted.
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[01:58:46] <cpresser> kde- and gnome libs are installed on most systems anyway.
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[01:59:44] <cpresser> "apt-get install moc" still needs ncurses lib. but it wont get any more lightweight
[01:59:47] <furrywolf> I do not want web service support. I do not want my files in a database. I do not want it to depend on id3 tags. I do not want collection management. I do not want file tracking. I do not want bookmarking. I do not want Plasma or anything to do with plasma. In fact, I don't want a single bloody thing on the features page. Notable, the features page does not include "plays music".
[02:00:15] <cpresser> furrywolf: seems like you need to write your own programm, if you are so strict about features/non-features :D
[02:01:21] <furrywolf> I generally avoid installing kde or gnome libraries. too much bloat, too many problems. you can't install just one program that uses them either - you always have to drag in the respective control panels to be able to properly configure anything that uses the libraries, and then you end up with all the rest of it...
[02:01:58] <furrywolf> And then they try to drag in pulse, which is enough reason to never, ever touch them.
[02:03:09] * cpresser uses "i3" as wm. never needed any control-panel whatsoever for gnome/kde apps
[02:03:46] <furrywolf> you always need the control panel. as an example, if you install any kde applications without kcontrol, file dialogs are broken.
[02:04:06] <furrywolf> it's stuck in single-click to open, no multiple file selection, etc, until you install kcontrol. because somehow the default is to be broken.
[02:04:45] <furrywolf> this specific issue has pissed me off multiple times.
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[02:08:15] <Tom_itx> ssi you around?
[02:08:28] <Tom_itx> wanted a link to your rotary axis thing you made
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[02:22:19] <furrywolf> woot! I found a soundcloud downloader that actually works, AND soundcloud now has The Setting Son - Before I Eat My Eyes and Ears, which I wanted to download a while ago and couldn't find anywhere.
[02:25:46] <furrywolf> the downloader doesn't number tracks, which is plain stupid, but I have a script that autonumbers them somewhere...
[02:26:41] <furrywolf> (yes, I'm downloading electropop dance music and weird-ass '60s-ish psychedelic at the same time. yay having varied tastes.)
[02:31:12] <furrywolf> one of my pioneers was rattling slightly with the bass on one of the breakdown valentine tracks, but as soon as I poked the woofer to confirm it as the source, it went away and hasn't come back. that's unusual.
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[02:34:08] <furrywolf> hrmm, don't have agrep on this box, which my script needs.
[02:35:09] <cradek> approximate grep! never heard of it before now.
[02:35:59] <furrywolf> yep
[02:36:28] <furrywolf> my script uses it to figure out which track name matches best between the list of files in a directory and a list of tracks in the proper order.
[02:37:45] <furrywolf> so when you download an album and someone didn't bother putting the track numbers in it anywhere, you can give it a list of tracks in the right order (copy+paste from any website), and it'll match them up.
[02:39:06] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/mlist.txt (work in progress, and possibly an old version... I lost a hard drive, and had to restore off a stale backup)
[02:40:20] <furrywolf> it also renames files to include artist and album names, and squishes track names down to a selectable length when copying to a drive for a car stereo with a limited display.
[02:43:29] <furrywolf> it also fixes filenames with underscores or periods instead of spaces, missing punctuation (mostly accurately, even!), missing capitalization, track numbers at the end of the filename instead of the start, duplicate extensions, removes useless crap from filenames,...
[02:45:31] <furrywolf> yeah, that version is broken. yay restoring old backups.
[02:46:18] <zeeshan> xmms
[02:46:19] <zeeshan> lol
[02:46:55] <zeeshan> i ran xmms2
[02:46:59] <zeeshan> on windows for a long time
[02:48:16] <furrywolf> bah, my pioneer is rattling again. figured that would happen. might need a woofer.
[02:50:59] <furrywolf> I'm rather fond of these speakers, probably will ebay an original woofer when I have a few bucks spare.
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[03:03:22] <Cromaglious__> I've used E6000 to fix speakers cones and flex rings, it's flexable enough and deefinately strong enough
[03:05:02] <furrywolf> ouch! no woofers on ebay, and a pair of speakers is $500!
[03:05:32] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-CS-A700-Speakers-/291431935384
[03:05:57] <furrywolf> yes, they come factory wired for triamping.
[03:09:06] <furrywolf> I don't think you can fix a bad voice coil with adhesive. :)
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[03:20:20] <Cromaglious__> you can reglue a voice coil that's come loose back onto a cone, if it's good shape
[03:20:42] <roycroft> i've reconed many speakers
[03:21:03] <roycroft> the stacked advents sitting right in front of me being prime examples
[03:21:10] <furrywolf> no, it's making the intermittant bad contact noise. could be a cracked connection where the tinsel connects to the voice coil, or could be a cracked voice coil...
[03:21:45] <roycroft> or a leaky crossover cap
[03:21:57] <furrywolf> leaky crossover caps don't go away when you press on the cone. :)
[03:22:09] <roycroft> ok, i wasn't here earlier
[03:22:16] <roycroft> so i don't know the whole story
[03:22:46] <furrywolf> I need to refoam my ess amt1s... I don't think they need reconing, but they're in pretty sad shape.
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[03:23:33] <roycroft> refoaming is needed probably an order of magnitude more often than reconing vintage speakers
[03:23:53] <roycroft> fortunately it's really easy to do
[03:24:13] <furrywolf> they're the only thing I own with foam surrounds. my usual rule is anything with foam isn't worth owning. :)
[03:24:43] <furrywolf> my other speakers, of six different brands, all have cloth surrounds.
[03:25:26] <roycroft> well i'm pretty happy with both my main hifi and my garage hifi
[03:25:44] <roycroft> i have stacked original large advents in the living room, and baby advents in the garage
[03:26:10] <roycroft> i would not mind a nice set of dahlquist dq-10s for the living room
[03:26:38] <roycroft> but it's getting pretty hard to find those in decent condition
[03:27:12] <furrywolf> my living room has a stack of sansui sp-3500, sansui sp-7500x, and pioneer cs-a700... my shop has some klipschs and yamahas, and a big sub unit... my jbl 4311s are on loan to someone, the ess amt1s need refoaming, and the dynacos will go in the bedroom one of these days, but now they're in storage, as they're not worth hooking up.
[03:27:55] <roycroft> i enjoy the vintage hifi gear
[03:28:19] <furrywolf> I have too many vintage amps that need fixing.
[03:28:31] <roycroft> i have a mcintosh c-28 pre-amp and mc2100 power amp in the living room
[03:28:56] <furrywolf> I'd like to have my pioneer sx-1010 in my living room, but it needs an output pair. so does my kenwood l07m monoblocks...
[03:29:06] <roycroft> my tuner is an mr-73 - the last mcintosh tuner with a vacuum tube (it has a magic eye)
[03:30:14] <furrywolf> I have two other pioneers that need repair, a marantz that needs repair, a sansui that needs repair,...
[03:30:27] <furrywolf> I just bought a sansui au-717. hopefully it doesn't need repair!
[03:30:42] <roycroft> cool
[03:32:12] <furrywolf> due to a lack of working hifi amps, my living room currently runs off a pair of car amps. lol
[03:33:44] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-4080DSM-/261814480517 it actually is an honest 160W RMS/channel, both channels driven, 0.1% THD...
[03:34:00] <furrywolf> so not total crap... but still a car amp. because I have no working hifi amps left. heh.
[03:35:17] <furrywolf> built back when rockford fosgate made stuff worth owning... a huge chunk of cast aluminum and non-imaginary specs.
[03:40:58] <Cromaglious__> I have a Carver 75w I use sparinley
[03:41:30] <Cromaglious__> 150w mono it drives a A7 nicely
[03:41:35] <furrywolf> the car amps actually work surprisingly well for me, since I hardwired them into the 12V dc-dc bus of my solar system...
[03:42:48] <furrywolf> a run of 6AWG to the 12V battery bank, and two 1F caps on the amp inputs for a bit of smoothing.
[03:42:51] <Cromaglious__> though the A7 got respeakered with a 120oz 15" midrange out of a Carver studio folded speaker
[03:43:58] <Cromaglious__> another reason I want a CNC with alot of Z. so I can make 3d speaker cones
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[03:44:39] <furrywolf> ... make... speaker cones? aren't they usually molded from lightweight materials, not machined? I don't think I've ever seen a machined speaker cone, in fact. lol
[03:45:44] <furrywolf> even the honeycomb on the sony squares I had were made with paper, glue, etc.
[03:46:43] <furrywolf> (for those who haven't seen them, sony made a line of speakers with square drivers. no, they didn't do anything better than cones.)
[03:47:44] <LeelooMinai> I magine the best materials would be light and stiff, so maybe some carbon-fiiber like, or kevlar, etc.
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[03:48:22] <furrywolf> yes, you might imagine that, and so do many other people... however, without fail, every kevlar speaker I've listened to has sounded like utter shit.
[03:48:48] <furrywolf> you need the right mix of being stiff AND damping any resonances or other oddities that might occour within the cone.
[03:49:01] <LeelooMinai> There are kevlar speakers? I am not speaker specialist, just was musing.
[03:49:27] <furrywolf> yep
[03:49:54] <LeelooMinai> I guess they could damp the stiff cone - doesn't mean that the cone itself should not be stiff
[03:50:35] <furrywolf> every kevlar driver I've heard sounded like it resonated and did odd things... never sounded good.
[03:51:01] <LeelooMinai> Maybe be related to something other
[03:51:37] <LeelooMinai> Or maybe they were not the best designs
[03:53:42] <Cromaglious__> best sounding speakers I have heard have always been paper cones
[03:55:05] <LeelooMinai> Considering 99% of them is paper cones, that's not surprising:)
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[03:55:25] <Cromaglious__> with high linen content, so 1/2 fabric/1/2 wood pulp
[03:55:34] <LeelooMinai> Is or was - not sure which
[03:56:06] <furrywolf> "Most audiophiles and magazine reviewers are unaware of the sonic signature of Kevlar or carbon-fiber resonance, misidentifying it as "amplifier sensitivity," "room sensitivity," or other problems that point away from the real culprit."
[03:56:30] <Cromaglious__> yeah do they ever ring
[03:56:31] <furrywolf> "they are very difficult drivers to work with, with strong resonant signatures that must be controlled acoustically and electrically."
[03:56:41] <furrywolf> so, yeah, my theory is exactly what the problem is. lol
[03:56:55] <Cromaglious__> paper is actually a rigid felt
[03:57:07] <furrywolf> perhaps you can design a speaker that makes them sound good... I've not heard one. every kevlar speaker I've heard sounded like shit. :)
[03:57:30] <furrywolf> Cromaglious__: if you want funky materials, I have no idea what the drivers on my JBLs are made of.
[03:57:57] <furrywolf> at least the woofer, the mid and tweeter are plain paper
[03:58:49] <furrywolf> it's some form of paper/wood fiber construction, that's fucking stiff, and very light despite being very thick and 3-dimensional.
[03:58:56] <Cromaglious__> I had a speaker from the 70's with handmake paper cones with hair tail hair for strengthening
[03:59:39] <furrywolf> you can see it in
http://reconingspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/jbl-l100.jpg
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[04:00:19] <furrywolf> when you give them the finger-tap test, they sound very different than most cones.
[04:00:31] <Cromaglious__> My dad used to work for Teledyne and we got some AR speakers for basically cost
[04:02:03] <furrywolf> I have a pair of klipschs with plastic-coned woofers... they SOUND LIKE PLASTIC. they are, by far, the worst name-brand speaker I've ever heard. they have two plastic cones and a horn. they sound like two plastic cones and a horn.
[04:02:26] <furrywolf> http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=33772&stc=1&d=1218768837 there's a good backside shot of the jbl woofers... you can see the heavy 3d texture there too.
[04:03:28] <furrywolf> yes, the magnet is 8" around, and has a suitably impressive edge-wound flat copper voice coil in it.
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[04:06:55] <furrywolf> http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/rv/s/f/1048884229.jpg there's the klipschs. they sound exactly like they look. they sound like two plastic cones and a plastic horn. speakers should not sound like things.
[04:11:16] <furrywolf> that really is the best way I can think of to describe them... they sound like their materials. badly.
[04:12:21] <furrywolf> they make decent shop speakers, where the primary use is to crank them up loud, but they're not good for quiet listening.
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[04:13:25] <Cromaglious__> consumer grade crap
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[04:14:25] <Cromaglious__> JBL has some really good speakers, that I've used to respeaker some other cabs
[04:14:43] <furrywolf> the jbl 4311/l100 is the best speaker I've heard.
[04:14:58] <Cromaglious__> I had a pallet load 5'x4'x4' of Bose 3
[04:15:02] <Cromaglious__> " speakers
[04:15:16] <furrywolf> I've only heard a couple bose, never owned them... never been impressed, at all.
[04:15:34] <Cromaglious__> 8oz 8ohm 3" speaker with a 10" long resonence chamber
[04:15:51] <Cromaglious__> great little speaker for using for fill
[04:16:21] <Cromaglious__> great response up to 16Kish
[04:16:26] <Cromaglious__> perfect for a car
[04:17:21] <furrywolf> if you ever see a jbl 4311, 4312, l100, l88plus, or similar, grab them. even if you don't like them (I love them), the ebay value can be unpleasantly high.
[04:17:51] <qsqsqwsqws> Hello all - long time no login
[04:18:15] <furrywolf> heh, there's someone on ebay trying to get $2000+shipping for a pair...
[04:18:24] <Cromaglious__> I'm to the point of if I need noise the hp computer speakers work ok for me... Audiophile days are over
[04:18:57] <furrywolf> in that case, I'll give you my shipping address, and you can send all your hifi stuff my way. :P
[04:19:09] <qsqsqwsqws> I see that EMC2 is now 'linuxCNC' - I'm wondering what have been the major changes, if any, since then ?
[04:19:25] <furrywolf> qsqsqwsqws: there was a major change in the name. :)
[04:19:26] <Cromaglious__> OK I have so rocking (for computer speakers) sony, altec lansing, and some noname acer factory speaker that sound really good
[04:19:52] <qsqsqwsqws> in UI and features especially
[04:19:58] <Cromaglious__> ok off to home
[04:20:04] <Cromaglious__> ttyl
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[04:20:34] * furrywolf will gladly accept donations of high-end audio gear
[04:21:25] <furrywolf> qsqsqwsqws: can't help you there... I didn't use it back when it was emc2.
[04:23:00] <qsqsqwsqws> fair enough :)
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[04:30:04] <furrywolf> install it, run your machine, find out?
[04:32:53] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[04:43:44] <t12> i didnt realize manual pulse generators were so cheap and plentiful
[04:45:45] <Cromaglious_> if I had any left I'd ship it to you
[04:48:56] <t12> got my pile of mitsu junk working
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[04:49:10] <t12> positioning module sscnet output was blown i guess, replaced it and its fine
[04:50:50] <Cromaglious_> trying to think of a way to make an all wood X and Y table stiff enough for steel
[04:51:06] <Cromaglious_> Z is gonna have to be steel
[04:55:27] <Cromaglious_> or thinking for Gantry 6" steel square tube and 8" channel for the uprights and undertable cross piece. with steel angle iron on either side of Fir 2x6's for the Y rails and the table out of 3/4" plywood and 1/2 stiffeners and a whole lot of glue
[04:56:18] <Cromaglious_> make it about 12" thick
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[05:13:54] <qsqsqwsqws> furrywolf - my machine is in another country
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[05:14:27] <qsqsqwsqws> also, I wouldn't necessarily find all these features ...
[05:15:19] <Cromaglious_> or use 3/8 plywood in 2 layers to make a 3/4 thick top and bottom 6' x 12', lets see: full sheet, 1/2 sheet lengthwise, 1/2sheet crosswise, and 2 pieces of 2x4" pieces (1/4 sheet) so that's 4 sheets of 3x8, then 3/8 sheets for the 6" x 6" grid
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[05:20:46] <archivist> qsqsqwsqws, a large bully of a company forced the name change not features
[05:21:53] <qsqsqwsqws> interesting... the thick plottens !
[05:22:22] <qsqsqwsqws> so it's more backbone and code improvement ?
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[05:24:28] <archivist> yes the real big change recently is a new trajectory planner with better look ahead
[05:25:07] <archivist> plus numerous smaller additions and bugfixes
[05:25:14] <Cromaglious_> 2 layers on the outside, 1 layer for everything else so looking at 18 sheets 0f 3/8"
[05:29:03] <qsqsqwsqws> thanks, I probably won't be back into it until the end of the year - but it'll be interesting to see...
[05:29:37] <Cromaglious_> and a whole bunch of 2x4's chopped, sliced and diced into 1/2"x1/2"x5.5" sticks 8 and 1/2"x1/2"x5" sticks 4 for every cell. 12x24 cells x 12 sticks sheeshz 3456 sticks
[05:34:12] <Cromaglious_> 10 sticks per 5 5/8" roughly 16 2"x4"x10' and a 2"x4"x2'
[05:37:09] <Cromaglious_> oops.. only get 21 out of 120" at 5.625" ok call it 18 2"x4" x 10'
[05:37:41] <archivist> mixing metal and wood could be a recipe for warping
[05:38:17] <Cromaglious_> hmm cut all the 2x4's in half, then I'm working in 5' chunks
[05:39:11] <Cromaglious_> thinking about a 6'x12'x1' box table with 6" grid squares out of 3/8" ply, with 3/4 thick on top, bottom, and sides
[05:40:22] <Cromaglious_> with 1/2" square bits for extra gluing area for strength
[05:41:05] <Cromaglious_> 3456 1/2" x 1/2" x ~5.5" pieces
[05:43:33] <Cromaglious_> back in college we did a 4' wide x 6' thick x over 40' long unsupported beam out of 1/4" plywood and 3/8 square bits on a 6" grid
[05:44:16] <Cromaglious_> for 'The Wiz' -- longest unsupported theatrical bridge for many years
[05:44:33] <Cromaglious_> maybe it was 5" thick
[05:44:53] <Cromaglious_> '82 I think Contra Costa College
[05:45:46] <Cromaglious_> so I think a 12" thick 6x12 will be quite rigid
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[05:47:15] <Cromaglious_> I'll have to sink some anchor bolts into the floor for when I'm clamping it up. I'll have to borrow a machinists level to setup the gluing areas
[05:48:02] <Cromaglious_> hard part will be getting the floor area clear to do it on
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[06:33:49] <renesis> cromaglious_: JBL has good and bad stuff, and it doesn't always correlate with prive or reviews
[06:34:01] <renesis> same with Klipsch and Bose
[06:34:43] <renesis> remember even credible reviewers wont have a job anymore if they review badly and manufacturers stop giving them pre-release product, and stop inviting them to release events
[06:35:10] <renesis> home audio is kind of a scam
[06:35:38] <renesis> because they know that a huge majority of customers are ignorant, and buying look
[06:36:47] <renesis> even cheap studio monitors with a cheap subwoofer will usually sound better than expensive home audio
[06:37:21] <renesis> with active crossovers and matched amplifiers built in
[06:38:06] <renesis> doing 5.1 with another setup just seems goofy, because they use monitor speakers to mix 5.1
[06:38:53] <renesis> like, 5 identical speakers, not two big front towers with a mutant mid-tweeter-mid center and tiny rears
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[06:40:22] <renesis> tl;dr: stop buying crappy over-marketed home audio shit, buy yourself some cheap active studio monitors
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[06:51:33] <Deejay> moin
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[13:33:52] <archivist> cones fell apart in my studio monitors, I got a quote of £300 each for repair
[13:35:06] <`Nerobro> ow
[13:35:23] <`Nerobro> $300 would make me break out the fiberglass and make some new cones.
[13:45:02] <archivist> I have a pair of Tannoy studio monitors, from a TV company, shame the code support has rotted
[13:45:27] <archivist> could be worth repairing I suppose
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[14:51:22] * SpeedEvil passes `Nerobro some berylium sheet.
[14:51:49] <`Nerobro> hah
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[15:14:43] <zeeshan|2> three words:
[15:14:47] <zeeshan|2> fuck tensile test specimens
[15:14:50] <zeeshan|2> okay four.
[15:14:51] <zeeshan|2> :[
[15:15:51] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan|2: is this the wierd e-beam thign you were talking about a while back
[15:16:48] <zeeshan|2> i dont remember the ebeam thing -- this is supposed to be just simple sheet metal tensile test coupons that i gotta prep
[15:16:51] <zeeshan|2> and they are being a pain in the ass
[15:16:59] <zeeshan|2> they keep shifting on me when i try to machine them
[15:17:07] <zeeshan|2> so now i have to make a jig
[15:17:22] <zeeshan|2> waste of time :p
[15:17:33] <SpeedEvil> ah - must have been someone else.
[15:17:36] <SpeedEvil> Hot-melt!
[15:17:41] <SpeedEvil> Magnets!
[15:19:08] <zeeshan|2> today i had an interesting use of math
[15:19:48] <zeeshan|2> i need to make a face seal using a viton oring. but the shape of the seal needs to be a square with sounded corners
[15:19:51] <zeeshan|2> *rounded
[15:20:06] <zeeshan|2> but standard o-rings come as circles
[15:20:14] <_methods> x
[15:21:10] <zeeshan|2> busted out the formula: pi*D1 = pi*D2 + 4S, where D1 = standard oring diameter , D2 = diameters of the corners of the rounded square, and S = square length
[15:21:22] <zeeshan|2> =D
[15:21:28] <zeeshan|2> who said math is useless
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[15:43:31] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan|2: squircle
[15:43:35] <SpeedEvil> Not just a pokemon
[15:43:44] <zeeshan|2> hahah
[15:45:40] <JT-Shop> can rsync copy files from a windoze computer over the lan
[15:48:29] <_methods> it should be able to
[15:48:37] <_methods> smb share
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[15:49:10] <JT-Shop> ok thanks
[15:49:25] <_methods> i used backuppc to connect to windows boxes
[15:49:32] <_methods> but it was using rsync in the background
[15:49:46] <_methods> cwrsync i think works with windows
[15:49:58] <_methods> i'm not sure how you're connecting to what you want to backup though
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[15:57:08] <JT-Shop> I want to back up to my debian computer from all the other computers on the LAN
[15:59:21] <_methods> you want to back up to the debian from all the other pc's?
[15:59:37] <_methods> i'd try backuppc it has a nice interface for managing multiple backups
[15:59:42] <_methods> and it's open source
[15:59:54] <Rab> You can run rsync under cygwin.
[16:00:02] <_methods> http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/
[16:00:54] <JT-Shop> thanks
[16:00:59] <_methods> np
[16:01:50] <_methods> it's a lot easier to manage that way than a bunch of Crontab scripts
[16:02:13] <_methods> even though that's pretty much all backuppc is doing int the background i assume
[16:05:24] <Tom_itx> _methods does that allow you to create a bootable backup?
[16:06:22] <Tom_itx> i backed mine up with ghost then had to patch a few things to make it boot. not that friendly
[16:06:34] <Tom_itx> but it did work
[16:06:44] <Tom_itx> going from a larger hdd to a smaller one...
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[16:26:19] <JT-Shop> I guess I need to format the 2TB drive, use GUID Partition Table?
[16:26:52] <JT-Shop> the windoze hd is ntfs
[16:28:49] <JT-Shop> bbl
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[16:36:04] <Computer_Barf> so I just installed linuxcnc , I notice my audio doesn't seem to be working right, I know there are certain updates I am not supposed to do
[16:36:42] <Computer_Barf> the system is notifying me of all sorts of updates, but i don't think they are distrubution updates.. is it ok to do them?
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[16:55:29] <_methods> Tom_itx: it's just for backing up files i don't think you can back up a full system using it
[16:55:59] <_methods> it think for system backups with windows you'll still need to use windows
[16:56:21] <_methods> you may be able to fire a custom script that will tell the windows computer to do a backup
[16:56:32] <_methods> then copy that to your backup "system"
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[17:07:11] <Computer_Barf> for some reason the audio on my linuxcnc wheezy install is distorted, skipping
[17:07:49] <Computer_Barf> wondering if this is related to some of the realtime stuff or if maybe any of you listen to music on your machines?
[17:11:27] <Rab> Might be related to realtime kernel. Do you really want to listen to music on your timing-critical machine controller?
[17:11:49] <Computer_Barf> well not at the same time
[17:13:18] <renesis> see if you can run JACK using the same realtime kernel
[17:16:24] <jthornton> I have backuppc installed, where do you add the source to backup from?
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[17:26:53] <_methods> i think under hosts
[17:27:02] <_methods> edit hosts
[17:28:44] <_methods> the hosts accounts drop down
[17:28:57] <_methods> sorry been awhile since i set up any new hosts
[17:29:00] <_methods> accounts
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[17:30:30] <jthornton> ok, I didn't know hosts was the source
[17:30:48] <_methods> yeah it's kinda cornfusing at first
[17:30:57] <_methods> there's accounts and hosts
[17:31:58] <_methods> nm
[17:32:07] <_methods> it's just hosts
[17:32:42] <_methods> but yeah hosts are the computers you are backing up from
[17:33:44] <_methods> this is a pretty good walk through
[17:33:46] <_methods> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-backuppc-to-create-a-backup-server-on-an-ubuntu-12-04-vpshttps://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-backuppc-to-create-a-backup-server-on-an-ubuntu-12-04-vps
[17:33:50] <_methods> oops
[17:33:52] <_methods> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-backuppc-to-create-a-backup-server-on-an-ubuntu-12-04-vps
[17:35:00] <jthornton> thanks
[17:35:04] <_methods> np
[17:35:10] <_methods> that's about the most basic setup
[17:35:37] <_methods> but it's a nice simple explanation
[17:35:46] <_methods> you can obviously get as complicated as you'd like
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[17:49:22] <Computer_Barf> for my mesa mesa 7i76e to work with the ethernet it is my understanding that I will need the RT-prempt patch. Im wondering if this is possible to apply and getting my board working with the ubuntu version of linuxcnc..
[17:51:59] <skunkworks> there is a RT-preempt kernel in the wheezy repository.. But for ubuntu I think you would have to build it..
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[17:58:10] <Computer_Barf> brb
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[18:03:46] <Computer_Barf> ok ive determined that installing an alternate kernel allows me to smoothly listen to music, obviously I will need to restart into the appropriate kernel to run parts
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[18:04:27] <Computer_Barf> not sure If will do the effort to switch to ubuntu or not
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[18:06:28] <Computer_Barf> idk, do any of you guys use some of the new versions of gnome on your wheezy installs? I feel so constrained in wheezy and am used to using ubuntu/gnome 3.6
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[18:13:23] <_methods> xfce here
[18:13:35] <_methods> i try to avoid fancy desktop junk
[18:13:48] <Computer_Barf> yeah running xfce right now
[18:14:15] <_methods> i prefer xfce nice and light weight
[18:14:59] <Computer_Barf> I like light weight when I actively need it
[18:15:27] <Computer_Barf> but for casual use I want to be able to move around and feel comfortable
[18:16:06] <Rab> I can see the comparison of Gnome to a giant, overstuffed couch.
[18:16:16] <_methods> my linuxcnc setups are solely to drive my machines
[18:16:27] <_methods> i don't use them to surf the web lol
[18:17:18] <Computer_Barf> I require minimum comforts If I'm going to stay down in the milling hut
[18:17:51] <_methods> well if i need horsepower i remote into a real computer
[18:18:07] <_methods> or bells and whistles
[18:18:32] <Computer_Barf> graphically? or ssh?
[18:18:35] <_methods> i can do all my cad/cam work on my real computer upstairs remotely from my rigs
[18:18:42] <_methods> RDP or x11 over ssh
[18:18:48] <_methods> depending on what i'm doing
[18:19:14] <_methods> or what computer i'm remoting into
[18:20:31] <_methods> i try to install as little as possible on my linuxcnc computer to try and keep problems to a minimum
[18:20:38] <Computer_Barf> doesn't x11 have a bit of throughput to it anyway? I mean you can just log in/out for desktop enviroment
[18:21:01] <_methods> not sure what you mean
[18:21:16] <Computer_Barf> well i mean it transmits a good amount of video information
[18:21:33] <_methods> oh i have no idea what it transmits
[18:21:39] <_methods> above my pay grade lol
[18:22:14] <Computer_Barf> i mean i get the appeal to remoting into a more powerful machine
[18:22:18] <_methods> yeah
[18:22:21] <Computer_Barf> I've done that in the past for other projects
[18:22:29] <_methods> it keeps my systems discreet
[18:22:45] <_methods> easier to fix problems
[18:22:48] <Computer_Barf> I think it would be nice to get a tablet that is just dedicated to that
[18:23:12] <Computer_Barf> or small laptop, or some sort of hybrid
[18:23:29] <Computer_Barf> just walk around with your monitor / keyboard essentially
[18:23:32] <_methods> yeah
[18:23:51] <_methods> if i need to do some heavy lifting in the living room i just remote into my real computer upstairs
[18:24:05] <_methods> i've been wanting to build a monster rig with a grid card in it
[18:24:14] <_methods> then basically just have a bunch of thin clients
[18:24:32] <Computer_Barf> i don't know if I would describe what I want to do down here as heavy lifting though
[18:25:04] <_methods> heh tru but you can do whatever you want and have the same configuration all the time from anywhere remotely
[18:25:04] <Computer_Barf> I just want to have some noise so my mind doesn't wander randomly in the silence
[18:25:18] <Computer_Barf> and i want to feel comfortable in the interface
[18:25:33] <Computer_Barf> all my cad stuff will happen upstairs
[18:26:37] <_methods> yeah sometimes i have to change some toolpaths from down in the garage and i don't feel like goign upstairs or repost some gcode
[18:26:41] <Computer_Barf> some people in the pro audio world are like that with their production machines, no internet, only sequencing and stuff directly related to getting the music done
[18:26:44] <_methods> its nice to be able to do it remotely
[18:27:00] <Computer_Barf> but there are plenty of good producers who arn't religious about it and do just fine.
[18:27:13] <_methods> to each his own i guess
[18:27:20] <Computer_Barf> I get it though
[18:27:21] <_methods> i just try to keep my cnc boxes as clean as possible
[18:27:48] <_methods> there's a lot of stuff going on and i don't like to cloud it with other possible issues
[18:28:01] <_methods> makes troubleshooting much easier
[18:28:04] <Computer_Barf> It's certainly understandable when someone downloads a vst off a torrent site and bam the most important computer in the buisness needs everything reinstalled and that involves hundreds of hours
[18:29:04] <Computer_Barf> but hell, just living mostly in the linux world solves alot of that drama for me
[18:29:05] <Rab> Or you just install a virus by clicking a fake OS notification.
[18:29:29] <Rab> Yes, according to my botnet your computers are performing nicely.
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[18:29:43] <Computer_Barf> thats the thing with music production.. I couldn't really leave windows
[18:30:21] <Computer_Barf> my personal laptop upstairs I dual boot ubuntu/gnome with windows so I can make some music, play some games occasionally
[18:30:43] <_methods> it's unfortunately the same in the cad/cam world
[18:31:02] <Computer_Barf> but my user image on the windows partition says "windows, start getting frustrated"
[18:31:03] <_methods> it's windows or nada
[18:31:18] <Computer_Barf> yeah
[18:31:25] <_methods> i thought music production was all apple crap
[18:31:33] <_methods> all the homos love the apple
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[18:32:12] <Computer_Barf> when I was young I was a apple guy
[18:32:17] <Computer_Barf> but then the computers stopped coming free
[18:32:56] <_methods> free computers
[18:32:58] <_methods> sign me up
[18:33:42] <Computer_Barf> was windows by default for a good long while, lucky when i went to computer camp as a child at the university of michigan for a number of years they at least hammered in an openness to a variety of operating systems
[18:34:03] <Computer_Barf> later that got me to at least reconsider linux when windows machines where hammering me year after year
[18:34:26] <Computer_Barf> i mean running a computer repair shop for a while will make you hate windows
[18:34:27] <_methods> i'm just a cheap bastard so linux price point has always appealed to me
[18:35:07] <Computer_Barf> have a bunch of people deliver their windows problems to you constantly..
[18:35:07] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com/makert
[18:35:08] <PCW> is a build script for the current preemt-rt kernel
[18:35:27] <Computer_Barf> thanks pcw,
[18:36:01] <Computer_Barf> im uncertain if it will be necessary though, it looks like I got a modern gnome installed
[18:36:17] <PCW> I think they just added a dependency on QT for xconfig so you may need to apt-get that
[18:36:23] <_methods> hey PCW i can use a 7i77 and 7i76 on a 5i25 at teh same time to control both servos and steppers?
[18:36:57] <PCW> yes
[18:36:59] <Computer_Barf> methods is your 7i76 the (e) version?
[18:37:13] <_methods> no i don't have one yet but i will be ordering
[18:37:24] <PCW> and you can connect a 7I77 to a 7I76E and do the same
[18:37:38] <_methods> and skip the 5i25?
[18:37:45] <PCW> yes
[18:37:52] <_methods> hmmm
[18:37:54] <_methods> ok
[18:38:00] <Computer_Barf> through the header board?
[18:38:07] <PCW> or 4x 7i77s on a 7I80DM
[18:38:15] <Computer_Barf> well i mean, the black header connector
[18:38:19] <PCW> 7I80 DB
[18:38:20] <_methods> i just want to control 1 servo at this time
[18:38:27] <_methods> 3 steppers and 1 servo
[18:38:54] <_methods> i have to make a couple other capital investments first
[18:38:58] <Computer_Barf> I need to look into what kind of stuff I can do with daughter cards
[18:39:08] <PCW> thats a bit awkward unless its a step/dir or PWM contrlled servo
[18:39:22] <_methods> well i haven't purchased teh servo yet
[18:39:30] <_methods> i'll get with you before i buy thouhg
[18:39:41] <_methods> unfortunately i'm out of that money stuff
[18:40:09] <Computer_Barf> is it possible to add glass scales to mesa cards?
[18:40:32] <_methods> ^^
[18:40:41] <PCW> yes (if the have quadrature outputs)
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[18:41:08] <Computer_Barf> nice. I had considered some other card that a guy was setting up glass scales on his g0704
[18:41:27] <Computer_Barf> but I wanted to do something that involved linuxcnc
[18:41:32] <Computer_Barf> I think it was a kflop
[18:42:12] <Computer_Barf> I think he was doing servos + glass scales. I did some reading on it though and it didn't sound like servos were going to be some big advantage for this kind of mill
[18:42:32] <_methods> no they are probably overkill for most minimills
[18:42:32] <Computer_Barf> but i was curious about servos/glass scales for maybe a 4x8 router table
[18:43:03] <Computer_Barf> yes i realize those glass scales will probably come with a price
[18:43:04] <_methods> what i plan on doing is probably a total waste but it's mainly for me to play with servos
[18:43:30] <Computer_Barf> yeah servos seem like a good thing to learn in general
[18:44:01] <_methods> well at some point the plasma table controller at my shop is going to die
[18:44:10] <_methods> and i'm going to replace it with linuxcnc controller
[18:44:25] <_methods> so messing around at home is going to be my trial runs for the big show
[18:44:26] <Computer_Barf> what point of failure are you anticipating?
[18:44:28] <_methods> when it comes
[18:44:36] <_methods> the whole controller
[18:44:45] <_methods> all the boards are about 20 y/o
[18:44:54] <Computer_Barf> ahh
[18:45:12] <Computer_Barf> that'll do it
[18:45:23] <_methods> yeah it's constantly having issues
[18:45:33] <_methods> and i want to put ATHC on it
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[18:45:50] <Computer_Barf> I'm tempted to build a plasma cutter
[18:45:50] <_methods> right now it uses an arm that comes down and touches off on the plate
[18:45:52] <_methods> really sux
[18:46:08] <Computer_Barf> i don't mean just build the table, I mean the plasma cutter itself
[18:46:22] <Computer_Barf> there are some cool diy plasma cutter builds
[18:46:36] <_methods> like the power pack and torch?
[18:46:44] <Computer_Barf> yeah
[18:46:48] <_methods> hmm
[18:46:50] <_methods> interesting
[18:47:31] <Computer_Barf> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Your-own-Plasma-Cutter/step6/Another-schematic-to-looksy-at/
[18:47:42] <Computer_Barf> there are a whole bunch of them ppl have made
[18:48:21] <Computer_Barf> i mean, it would feel pretty badass to build one from scratch
[18:48:44] <_methods> if only i didn't have 80 other unfinished projects lol
[18:48:50] <Computer_Barf> lol
[18:49:11] <Computer_Barf> yeah i know.. we're probably both procrastinating right now
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[18:49:52] <XXCoder> http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/jimmyneutron/images/b/bc/Vlcsnap-2012-11-30-12h54m43s103.png/revision/latest?cb=20121204230413
[18:49:58] <XXCoder> found pic of _methods
[18:50:04] <XXCoder> he can't finish anything anything
[18:50:14] <_methods> one day lol
[18:50:57] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, I'm just going to put a new hd in and reload windoze then set up my backup
[18:51:25] <_methods> air compressor unfortunately is my priority at this point
[18:51:50] <XXCoder> yes, Finbarr Calamitous.
[18:51:56] <JT-Shop> everytime I get a 1TB hd from officedepot they are out and give me a 2TB drive for the same price
[18:52:20] <_methods> nice
[18:52:39] <XXCoder> lol\
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[19:31:42] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, tell them you wanted 2
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[19:37:13] <JT-Shop> they only had the one box on display
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[19:37:50] <FinboySlick> Good drilling:
http://imgur.com/gallery/NHFLfbc
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[19:38:54] <XXCoder> dang
[19:38:57] <XXCoder> how did they do that
[19:39:52] <XXCoder> someone linked john candy with drill. man loved that funny guy
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[19:40:00] <XXCoder> too bad he died
[19:40:36] <XXCoder> http://r2.forconstructionpros.com/files/base/image/FCP/2010/08/16x9/640x360/hiltidd35_10165977.jpg
[19:40:58] <XXCoder> I know theres bigger but dang thats a big drill
[19:41:31] <XXCoder> FinboySlick: whats funny is that pic I just linked to aligns nicely with bank holes one.
[19:41:37] <XXCoder> almost seems like he did it lol
[19:42:11] <FinboySlick> According to the news article, that's exactly the drill they used.
[19:42:22] <FinboySlick> Albeit a slightly larger diameter.
[19:42:26] <XXCoder> lol ok
[19:42:45] <FinboySlick> 25cm if I remember.
[19:42:54] <furrywolf> bah. just got an email saying sprint is killing their 4g wimax off, and I'll have to purchase a new hotspot.
[19:42:57] <FinboySlick> Actually, this could be it, depending on how large the guy is.
[19:43:13] <XXCoder> gentle giant heh
[19:43:47] <_methods> hoxton!!!
[19:43:48] <_methods> lol
[19:44:27] <furrywolf> I have a magdrill, but no impressive concrete drills.
[19:44:48] <XXCoder> maybe a good investment consider its bank robbing uses lol
[19:45:27] <XXCoder> furrywolf:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/22/police-release-pictures-of-hatton-garden-jewellery-raid
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[19:48:02] <furrywolf> lol
[19:48:15] <FinboySlick> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_CBpJNxdag might be a good alternative if they don't have to worry too much about noise.
[19:48:56] <XXCoder> besides the shatter as cut part falls lol
[19:49:07] <XXCoder> but yeah
[19:49:16] <XXCoder> good planning can be quite quiet. I guess.
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[19:49:57] <XXCoder> FinboySlick: people who made that film is addicted to film effects
[19:49:59] <XXCoder> and has add
[19:50:40] <furrywolf> on the other end of the sneakiness scale, one of the robberies I remember most was the people who held up an armored truck with a 25mm anti-aircraft gun.
[19:51:02] <XXCoder> ow
[19:51:19] <furrywolf> they didn't have to fire it. seems having it aimed at the windshield was enough. :P
[19:51:39] <XXCoder> yeah it would be enough I think, to get in and kill
[19:51:52] <_methods> thunderbolt and lightfoot lol
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[19:52:14] <XXCoder> http://static.guim.co.uk/ni/1429721148239/hatton_garden_heist_WEB.svg
[19:52:29] <FinboySlick> A lot of armored trucks will let through 7.62mm rounds.
[19:52:36] <FinboySlick> (just not everywhere)
[19:53:32] * furrywolf waits for hilti to use the heist in their advertising
[19:55:08] <XXCoder> "it can everything for you, including rob banks! (not recommanded)
[19:55:44] <furrywolf> of course, being the UK, they'll proceed to ban owning any drill over a certain size, and eventually ban all drills altogether without a license.
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[20:02:28] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I remember reading about flight not allowed stuff - one of em is liquids above certain size
[20:02:40] <XXCoder> funny thing is that they poured all into bin.
[20:03:00] <XXCoder> what if there was two guys with big liquid containers that is seperate parts of binary chemical bomb
[20:03:28] <furrywolf> binary chemical bombs, despite what hollywood says, are a lot of work.
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[20:04:04] <XXCoder> it's not good idea to mix though, there is simplier mixes like bleach and ammonioa
[20:05:55] <Jymmm> HCL FTW
[20:06:36] <Jymmm> CO2 bombs are super easy, and fun for the whole family!
[20:10:45] <_methods> Jymmm: where you been hidin
[20:12:21] <furrywolf> probably trying to keep the cops from finding him after too many co2 bombs.
[20:12:34] <XXCoder> yep
[20:20:44] <furrywolf> bbl
[20:23:36] <TekniQue> co2 bomb = piece of dry ice in a sealed container?
[20:26:35] <XXCoder> cool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xcr45tWxK1I
[20:26:59] <SpeedEvil> I prefer to use fine charcoal with high pressure oxygen in my CO2 bombs
[20:28:53] <XXCoder> really funny ending
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[20:39:35] <JT-Shop> almost got all the drivers installed lol
[20:40:04] <XXCoder> not bad, it should be only one week to go left then
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[20:45:21] <MrFluffy> roycroft: if your about, gmoccapy in 800x600, its actually awesome with a bit of tweaking, just had to edit the settings in the glade file in /usr/share/gmoccapy
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[20:53:27] <Jymmm> _methods: nowhere, I've been here all along
[20:54:31] <Jymmm> _methods: VERY cool...
http://www.wimp.com/bottlecover/
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[21:14:58] <andypugh> Jymmm: For the first time, I agree with you.
[21:16:09] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:33:38] <Jymmm> lol
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[21:50:48] <andypugh> Why does the save-as dialog box in Ubuntu and Debian default to you typing a file filter and not the new file name? It drives me mad.
[21:51:23] <andypugh> Why would I ever want to type a file filter when doing a save-as?
[21:51:41] <zeeshan|2> haha andypugh
[21:52:56] <MrFluffy> because your about to overwrite a older version of something and it takes less keystrokes for the terminally lazy?
[21:53:24] <MrFluffy> most people are editing the same file then testing it during dev work, and thats how they tend to set it up, is my take...
[21:53:25] <andypugh> I would expect a warning in that case
[21:53:47] <MrFluffy> it warns you in the next step, but you can disable that in prefs too
[21:53:56] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: have you done biaxial tensile tests?
[21:54:20] <MrFluffy> but by forcing you to disable the second explicitly, they dont own any responsibility when you use it to do dumb things :D
[21:54:50] <andypugh> Save-as means that you want to choose a new file name. So it seems obvious to me that my cursor should start off in the “what new file name do you want to use” box
[21:55:14] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: No. Not personally, but I have seen the machines.
[21:55:47] <andypugh> (And a crazy tension / torsion / through-thickness differntial pressure triaxial machine
[21:55:57] <MrFluffy> Im still getting over people not using :wq or :x, gui thinking always seems a bit odd
[21:56:05] <zeeshan|2> triaxial!
[21:56:06] <zeeshan|2> jeez
[21:56:30] <andypugh> That latter machine used 14kPa hydraulic pressure. It had pipes 1” diameter with a 1/8” bore. Crazy stuff.
[21:56:59] <MrFluffy> dangerous stuff...
[21:57:08] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[21:57:17] <andypugh> I don’t mean kPa. I mean kBar
[21:57:29] <zeeshan|2> our think goes upto 10000 psi
[21:57:33] <zeeshan|2> *thing
[21:57:38] <MrFluffy> yes, I was still trying to think of it in psi
[21:57:49] <zeeshan|2> it goes kaboom when the sample blows
[21:57:55] <MrFluffy> I mean high pressure hydraulics, especially if flexy hoses are involved somewhere
[21:58:20] <andypugh> 200,000 psi
[21:58:50] <JT-Shop> yea, andypugh that is annoying and confusing... a programmer joke I imagine
[21:59:01] <andypugh> It was meant to yield tubular steel specimens in the radial direction with differential pressure
[21:59:26] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[21:59:31] <zeeshan|2> we've done that on aluminum and steel specimens
[21:59:34] <zeeshan|2> tubes
[21:59:46] <zeeshan|2> i dunno why im thinking 10000psi
[22:00:27] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: I bet you have done it with hoop stress, not hydraulic crushing…
[22:00:41] <andypugh> We are talking radial compressive stress here
[22:01:07] <zeeshan|2> from the outside in?
[22:01:16] <zeeshan|2> (outer surface of tube sees the pressure?)
[22:01:21] <MrFluffy> is it supposed to condition the grain structure prior to test or something?
[22:01:23] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I wonder if anyone has ever tried to submit a patch to fix it, and what their excuse was for not changing?
[22:01:38] <MrFluffy> coupon forging tester or similar?
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[22:01:53] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Pressure inside _and_ outside, tube gets longer and bigger….
[22:02:05] <zeeshan|2> lol nice
[22:02:40] <andypugh> The idea was to be able to create absolutely any 6-element stress state
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[22:04:35] <zeeshan|2> 6 element?
[22:04:44] <zeeshan|2> is there more than 6 elements? :p
[22:04:48] <andypugh> Well, yes but no.
[22:05:42] <andypugh> ie, I think that there was only one torsion direction available, but you could align the other three elements freely with tube-tension and the internal and external pressures
[22:06:15] <zeeshan|2> i still think its so cool
[22:06:24] <zeeshan|2> that biaxial tension gives you like double the strain
[22:06:29] <zeeshan|2> of uniaxial tension
[22:06:31] <andypugh> Yes, I would love to go back there and convert it to LinuxCNC
[22:06:33] <zeeshan|2> for a lot of materials
[22:06:46] <zeeshan|2> and this machine is some next level thing that can give you triaxial tension
[22:07:24] <andypugh> At the time it was controlled by a BBC micro computer than only one Iranian guy understood, and he hardly ever talked..
[22:07:31] <MrFluffy> is this for materials testing purposes or does it condition the material in some way to improve it? sorry for the dumb questions but...
[22:07:50] <zeeshan|2> MrFluffy: in engineering, you usually use uniaxial tensile data to design stuff
[22:08:04] <zeeshan|2> but in reality, the material strength is dependent on the strain path
[22:08:12] <andypugh> It was for materials testing. Specifically crack growth in complex stress states.
[22:08:16] <zeeshan|2> these tests try to characterize the strain path
[22:08:34] <zeeshan|2> this is important for formability of materials
[22:08:42] <zeeshan|2> which you are trying to plastically deform , but not fracture
[22:08:56] <andypugh> I worked in a fracture mechanics group
[22:09:00] <zeeshan|2> in normal engineering, plastic deformation is considered failure.
[22:09:07] <zeeshan|2> but in materials forming it's considered good :-)
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[22:09:31] <zeeshan|2> ah cool
[22:09:51] <MrFluffy> Ive skimmed the area, I met youngs modulus testers etc at college, and now I make bits for my own engines, so if someone had a 3 dimensional forger Id be very curious indeed
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[22:11:24] <SpeedEvil> Impact forming is a fun topic
[22:11:35] <SpeedEvil> I wish I understood more than the 4-year-old version.
[22:11:44] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: This might interest you. Back in 2000 a ball mill containg sand, clay and water exploded, blowing out the end-wall of the three-storey building. My boss and I ended up investigating for the Health and Safety Executive.
http://proceedings.asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/proceeding.aspx?articleID=1572776
[22:12:01] <SpeedEvil> I'm guessing on metal powder.
[22:12:30] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: youre a smart cookie
[22:12:30] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[22:12:47] <zeeshan|2> doesn't it make you proud to have your name in the asme digital collections library?
[22:13:05] <SpeedEvil> Oh - funky
[22:13:17] <SpeedEvil> It's just a boiler explosion. (sort-of)
[22:13:40] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if you can get hydrogen evolution with ceramic - basic - cast iron and damp
[22:13:45] <zeeshan|2> ince grinding produces a large amount of heat, the pressure in the mill rises as the water vapor and air inside attempt to expand. The mill therefore becomes a pressure vessel if it is left running long enough for the internal pressure to reach significant values.
[22:13:45] <zeeshan|2> ROFL
[22:13:55] <zeeshan|2> are you serious
[22:14:11] <andypugh> Yes, but a boiler made of really low quality cast iron. It was fascinating working with a _terrible_ material.
[22:14:42] <zeeshan|2> are the ends just flat plates?
[22:14:43] <SpeedEvil> What is the temperature it hits.
[22:15:03] <andypugh> It gets to about 120C if the timer fails (it did)
[22:15:20] <andypugh> The ends are flat plates with ribs.
[22:15:47] <SpeedEvil> Ah. 120C=~2 bar.
[22:15:54] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that'll be plenty to cause bangs.
[22:15:56] <andypugh> The conclusuion was that if a visible crack extends through two ribs you should retire the mill, or it might kill you.
[22:16:04] <zeeshan|2> but making it hemispherical
[22:16:12] <SpeedEvil> What's the excuse for not simply adding a vent?
[22:16:12] <zeeshan|2> you reduce the stress by 1/2
[22:16:13] <zeeshan|2> dont you
[22:16:22] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan|2: no - infinitely less
[22:16:31] <zeeshan|2> im pretty sure its half
[22:16:31] <zeeshan|2> :P
[22:16:35] <zeeshan|2> the hoop stress
[22:16:46] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan|2: with a flat plaate, you get _lots_ of stress needed to reduce the bending
[22:16:48] <andypugh> This is the pottery industry. They have no money
[22:16:53] <zeeshan|2> forget the stress concentration!
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[22:17:00] <zeeshan|2> im talking just geometry
[22:17:14] <MrFluffy> vent with vapour seperator leading back into the machine tank, cheaper than a new machine...
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[22:17:20] <andypugh> Any vent will fill with clay and block. In fact it is even almost impossible to monitor the internal pressure.
[22:17:21] <zeeshan|2> im tring to recall , assuming thin plate assumption
[22:17:34] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: hmm
[22:17:44] <andypugh> But you can infer the pressure from temperature and the Clausius-Clayperon equation.
[22:18:14] <MrFluffy> or by seeing how much the end plates deform? whoops too much :)
[22:18:18] <SpeedEvil> A pressure sensor inside should work - it doesn't actually rely on flow
[22:18:39] <andypugh> The majority of the factories making this product are on such tight margins that they can’t afford to replace anything.
[22:18:46] <SpeedEvil> As long as the clay is flexible enough to transmit the force.
[22:18:53] <zeeshan|2> so after andypugh's report came
[22:18:55] <zeeshan|2> 10 more blew up
[22:18:56] <zeeshan|2> :D
[22:19:04] <zeeshan|2> even though they know the prob!
[22:19:07] <MrFluffy> shouldnt it have had some kind of burst plate to protect it in the event of system failures?
[22:19:16] <zeeshan|2> i'd just put 2 safety relief valves
[22:19:24] <SpeedEvil> And yes - a large burst plate
[22:19:32] <andypugh> I actually don’t know if any more blew up or not. You write a report, you get paid, you move on.
[22:19:33] <MrFluffy> just a disc weaker than the rest that blows out first inthe event of all safetys failing?
[22:19:36] <zeeshan|2> but they might get clogged -- so might now
[22:20:19] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan|2: the key is to make the burst plate large enough that the clay doesn't have the tensile strength to keep the force on it down
[22:20:32] <andypugh> A big flat plate somewhere would seem to be a good idea. But we were working with an industry where they wanted zero-cost answers.
[22:20:43] <zeeshan|2> safety relief valve!
[22:20:48] <zeeshan|2> vent the pressure
[22:21:00] <MrFluffy> mount one on springs so the valve resets itself too, but plenty of area to stop it clogging
[22:21:28] <MrFluffy> then another actual burst plate with a slightly higher failure point in case the first fails
[22:21:32] <SpeedEvil> A burst plate is nice in that it can indicate failure even if it clogs
[22:21:37] <MrFluffy> I actually have that on my airbox...
[22:22:05] <MrFluffy> spring loaded plate lifts, but if it sticks or cant cope with the volume, a thick perspex window in the side is designed to blow out...
[22:22:35] <MrFluffy> its made of 4mm thick aluminium, so was avoiding creating a large bomb
[22:22:36] <andypugh> Yes, a burst-plate would be a perfect answer. But these were factories with 3 low-wage staff working on old machinery in old factories. It was a fascinatingly low-margin situation.
[22:22:56] <SpeedEvil> Just take off the bolts and wrap bungee cord round it.
[22:23:00] <SpeedEvil> No need for a burst plate
[22:23:21] <MrFluffy> slack the nuts off and put springs under them :)
[22:24:09] <MrFluffy> next inspection for mill that lifted its end caps and went mental when all the bearings fell out their seats
[22:26:55] <MrFluffy> just kidding, I dont do much calculation now, most of what I fabricate is arrived at by empirical testing or peeking at what other people have done...
[22:27:02] <Jymmm> I want this (red) punch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIoBPV-cxZ8
[22:29:11] <MrFluffy> This is my current project, firmly in the lets pour more fuel in and see what happens camp I am afraid.
http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38671-1/bike_with_shifter.jpg
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[22:31:09] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: check out my mold
[22:31:30] <andypugh> Not got to the punch yet, but standoffs would beat rubber washers
[22:32:16] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/uGyRS07.png
[22:32:23] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Looks fast, but I am a corners sort of chap :-)
[22:32:37] <zeeshan|2> im using air pressure
[22:32:39] <zeeshan|2> polymer between the plates
[22:32:49] <zeeshan|2> outer square thing is o-ring, round thing is lock bead
[22:32:54] <zeeshan|2> (dont want any drawing)
[22:33:26] <zeeshan|2> the corner radius is .125"
[22:33:34] <zeeshan|2> film thickness is .008" (so much larger)
[22:33:49] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: That rounded bead looks like crazy design. Why not square?
[22:34:00] <zeeshan|2> where?
[22:34:05] <zeeshan|2> in the purple plate with a hole?
[22:34:12] <zeeshan|2> oh
[22:34:13] <zeeshan|2> the lock bead
[22:34:15] <andypugh> The locating feature
[22:34:20] <zeeshan|2> thats a lock bead
[22:34:24] <zeeshan|2> the polymer gets stuck in between it
[22:34:31] <zeeshan|2> just like with metals, so it doesnt draw
[22:34:44] <zeeshan|2> if you put square it'll cause localized failure
[22:34:51] <andypugh> Female is easy. (ball-nose mill) but the male is rather hard to make well
[22:34:59] <zeeshan|2> yea i was thinking of how to do it
[22:35:03] <MrFluffy> wire edm :)
[22:35:05] <zeeshan|2> spin on late
[22:35:12] <zeeshan|2> *lathe, cut off most of the material
[22:35:15] <zeeshan|2> then using forming tool or cnc
[22:35:35] <andypugh> OK, given that you _do_ have a genuine reason to want that (and I agree that you do) then yes, use a lathe.
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[22:36:00] <zeeshan|2> this is what im unsure about on how to machine
[22:36:05] <zeeshan|2> maybe cnc again using face grooving tool:
[22:36:20] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/Th94wce.png
[22:36:22] <zeeshan|2> note the tiny radius
[22:36:28] <zeeshan|2> (in purple plate)
[22:36:46] <andypugh> Add a grove in the underside to make it easy to grip in a lathe chuck, then CNC-lathe the bead
[22:37:44] <zeeshan|2> groove? :)
[22:37:52] * zeeshan|2 failed at understanding
[22:37:59] <andypugh> Actually, make both parts circular and they both become 100% lathe parts
[22:38:11] <zeeshan|2> yea thats a good idea
[22:38:17] <zeeshan|2> i can machine em flat after
[22:38:25] <zeeshan|2> so i can put em in the jig that theyre supposed to be held on
[22:38:32] <zeeshan|2> they are just held between two grippers
[22:38:35] <andypugh> Lathes are _brillliant_ at flat :-)
[22:38:48] <zeeshan|2> so i can have it the direct image correlation cameras lookng at it
[22:38:56] <zeeshan|2> while its in an environmetal chamber
[22:39:03] <zeeshan|2> i hate polymers.
[22:39:34] <MrFluffy> interesting, do you have perceptrons watching the press?
[22:39:54] <zeeshan|2> i dont know what that is
[22:40:19] <MrFluffy> industrial image comparison system
[22:40:26] <zeeshan|2> http://www.binghamton.edu/watson/research/equipment/images/20121016_aramis_3d_digital%20image_1205_jwc.jpg
[22:40:29] <zeeshan|2> thats what our system looks like
[22:41:15] <zeeshan|2> http://www.nordmetall.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/aramis_3d03_2.png
[22:41:18] <zeeshan|2> gives you pretty images like that
[22:41:25] <zeeshan|2> to map out major and minor strain
[22:42:12] <MrFluffy> http://perceptron.com/applications/in-line/ is the industrial monitoring version, but it doesnt map strain, more observing for defects during production
[22:42:40] <zeeshan|2> machine vision systems are cool
[22:43:06] <andypugh> Jymmm: That’s a serious punch. I have had access to well-tooled hand ones and even then you wnd up using them for everything.
[22:44:10] <zeeshan|2> looks like a magnet
[22:44:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: I never seen one so small, love it!
[22:44:58] <MrFluffy> theyre laser scanners with a line source and a load of processing hardware inside the sealed looking red boxes.
[22:45:24] <MrFluffy> nice punch press, are we allowed to say cute?
[22:46:28] <MrFluffy> or stereoscopic vision equipment too, ive only ever seen inside the contour probes myself
[22:47:08] <MrFluffy> I had a rather expensive exercise in learning all about them after a ill researched purchase...
[22:47:52] <andypugh> Jymmm: A previous employer had one of these, and all possible tooling:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/machine-presses/0602432/
[22:48:19] <zeeshan|2> that looks suprisingly easy to fabricate
[22:48:23] <zeeshan|2> 2 plates!
[22:48:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: nice =)
[22:48:35] <andypugh> The price is crazy
[22:48:49] <zeeshan|2> it must be so nice to feel the power of breaking metallic bonds
[22:48:51] <zeeshan|2> in your hands
[22:48:54] <MrFluffy> who would pay 1500 for that?
[22:49:06] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: you could even use multiple plates and bolt them together
[22:49:36] <MrFluffy> its RS so I guess people spending other peoples money...
[22:50:08] <andypugh> It had hole punches, corner-notcher, bending, cropping, louvres, D-subs, lots of other connectors
[22:50:29] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Good guess. Leeds University.
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[22:51:18] <SpeedEvil> That seems easily doable in that format even in wood.
[22:51:26] <MrFluffy> education AND a rs catalogue, dangerous combo, all they neednow is a farnell account and the trinity is complete
[22:52:00] <MrFluffy> theres so many used cheap flypresses and used industrial presses why get into making a new one?
[22:52:17] <MrFluffy> you can spend time making dies then instead
[22:54:18] <andypugh> Fairly cheap, super-useful:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/adjustable-vice-jaw-benders
[22:56:08] <andypugh> (I am sure I paid less)
[22:56:11] <MrFluffy> I use my shop hydraulic press and made some locking tooling up to prevent tooling out sideways incidents, its slow but it saves having another machine around Ill hardly ever use...
[22:56:53] <andypugh> I don’t have a press. So that widget saves me finding room for one.
[22:57:29] <andypugh> I do have a useless hydraulic pipe bender I keep meaning to repurpose
[22:57:37] <MrFluffy> A pipe squasher? :)
[22:57:46] <andypugh> Yes, exactly.
[22:58:24] <MrFluffy> Ive used mine, but not very often
[22:58:37] <andypugh> I bought it for exhaust pipes. It really only stands any chance at all of working on thick-wall tube
[22:58:39] <MrFluffy> its great for scaffold size tubing
[22:59:27] <MrFluffy> yes you need mandrel draw bender, then a die for every CLR, or you end up making your exausts all the same size because you only have one die and follower for years
[22:59:56] <andypugh> Something similar, and surprisinly useful now I have it:
http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/hydraulicrivetsqueezer.html
[23:00:51] <MrFluffy> that would be great to punch holes for clecos
[23:01:25] <MrFluffy> do you have a ner a car?
[23:01:50] <andypugh> Yes, I do.
[23:02:00] <MrFluffy> cool, weird but cool
[23:02:30] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Yes, one of those to punch holes would be a great tool.
[23:02:37] <andypugh> And cheap.
[23:03:12] <andypugh> I have used it for all sorts of localised mobile squishing since I got it.
[23:04:23] <MrFluffy> is that 40 a ebay find or from a shop?
[23:05:05] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Ton-Hydraulic-Wire-Battery-Cable-Lug-Terminal-Crimper-Crimping-Tool-8-Dies-/221727327187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339ffa83d3
[23:05:31] <MrFluffy> and what keeps the anvil C on the body? the two fasteners at the front?
[23:05:42] <andypugh> Smaller than mine, but free in real terms ;-)
[23:06:46] <MrFluffy> $90 shipping, sheesh, why dont they just use pitney bowers and the global shipping program...
[23:07:19] <andypugh> Well, I unscrwed the crimp head and made my own head, and that was bolted together. But my bolts failed so I welded it, and now it’s great.
[23:07:37] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Ah, where are you?
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[23:07:49] <MrFluffy> France.
[23:08:29] <MrFluffy> I buy a lot of things globally but I have deep pockets and short arms when it comes to shipping
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[23:09:41] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.fr/itm/321602870396
[23:10:25] <MrFluffy> thanks, bicester, bit nearer :)
[23:10:35] <andypugh> You might find one dans France
[23:11:19] <andypugh> I am in the UK, I posted the US link because I assumed you were not.
[23:12:57] <andypugh> I will say that I decides to feature-creep mine and ended up with a fairly high-quality item. But for punching sheet metal the very cheapest is probably OK, and rather lighter to handle.
[23:13:06] <MrFluffy> yes, theres a seller in france with free delivery, but thanks
[23:14:23] <andypugh> Are you French, or an enemy of Marine Le Pen?
[23:14:41] <MrFluffy> I am one of those dirty immigrants that the FN hate :)
[23:15:30] <MrFluffy> expat brit...
[23:16:11] <MrFluffy> drawn by the lure of empty roads and cheap rural property...
[23:16:26] <andypugh> A friend of mine is too, he nearly became Maire of Arromanches, until they noticed he couldn’t be :-)
[23:18:07] <MrFluffy> I cant even vote here, even though Ive got residency, both my kids were born here, and run a SARL...
[23:18:32] <andypugh> SARL ?
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[23:19:10] <MrFluffy> yes its just the french way of saying LTD in company terms
[23:20:33] <andypugh> I am familiar with SRL in Spain, I wonder why I haven’t heard of the French version. Are they rarer?
[23:20:36] <MrFluffy> so what other funky bikes do you have besides the ner-a-car?
[23:20:59] <MrFluffy> société à responsabilité limitée
[23:21:03] <andypugh> The others are non-funky. Yamaha R1 and GasGas EC200
[23:21:34] <andypugh> The R1 is possibly rarer than the Ner-a-Car. It’s done 100,000 miles.
[23:22:06] <MrFluffy> clutch or gearbox issues?
[23:22:26] <andypugh> Original clutch, gearbox is lovely
[23:22:57] <MrFluffy> I have its predecessor in a bimota, the 1000exup... checking the basket for fatigue cracks is a way of life
[23:23:09] <andypugh> I do tend to do clutchless changes mainly.
[23:23:42] <MrFluffy> yes but yamaha make their boxes very narrow, so its been hard for them to get gear strength in , in older stuff
[23:23:59] <andypugh> Ah, well, the Ner-a-Car is a lot like a Tesi. Except for the performance, handling, suspension and braking.
[23:24:12] <MrFluffy> on the xs and fzr, they only pressed second gear on too...
[23:24:49] <MrFluffy> Tesi is ducati engined, I have a cooking yb8,that way I can ride it and fall off without crying
[23:26:05] <andypugh> Pressing is normally fine. My dad spent his entire working life at David Browns making huge gears, and they routinely shrink/press gears on shafts. And they fo 14m gears.
[23:26:15] <andypugh> (fo = do = make)
[23:26:59] <MrFluffy> I have a friend who makes gearboxes, and he started because he kept breaking 2nd on his race bike which was on a fj base
[23:27:30] <MrFluffy> he made the forkless 3 speed in my kawasaki comp bike
[23:28:10] <MrFluffy> he has a "r1" dragbike, though as it goes,its really a fj :)
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[23:31:32] <MrFluffy> the box is genius, it has no shift forks at all, rods up the centre of the cluster slide the gears but they are brought into mesh by ramps on the dogs
[23:32:01] <MrFluffy> it actually engages two gears at once, and the second gear throws the first out of mesh when it accelerates the cluster
[23:32:12] <MrFluffy> so, full throttle gearchanges
[23:32:39] <andypugh> http://www.palawatr.co.th/2012/sites/default/files/girth-gear.jpg
[23:33:00] <andypugh> That’s a gear
[23:33:28] <andypugh> (there is a step ladder in the far corner for scale)
[23:34:35] <MrFluffy> I only do bikes, hotrods and the odd jcb tinkering, bit out my league :)
[23:34:38] <andypugh> The “spokes” are a machining fixture to allow for the fact that the gear is bigger than the table.
[23:35:40] <andypugh> (and that is the table of the biggest gear hobber in the world)
[23:36:15] <MrFluffy> They must have one hell of a cmm
[23:36:55] <MrFluffy> its not quite romer using a leapfrog territory
[23:37:02] <andypugh> But, have you any idea how your gearbox compares to the ones that Honda (and now Yamaha) use in MotoGP?
[23:37:22] <MrFluffy> its a different requirement
[23:38:00] <andypugh> MrFluffy: I actually suspect that they true up the blank with a DTI and check the fit on installation with Blue.
[23:38:13] <MrFluffy> they wouldnt cope with a 500hp launch with traction from a 10" slick, and mine woudlnt cope with changing gear for a entire race, or change down with ease
[23:39:13] <MrFluffy> nor would you want to shift a circuit racer without getting out the throttle, thats a very specialised need
[23:39:16] <andypugh> It’s for a ball mill doing 10 rpm at most. They shim the bolts to make it run circular on the mill.
[23:40:08] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Ah well, but, that is exactly what they are now doing. “Seamless” gearboxes, so they can be on the power all the time out of corners
[23:40:33] <MrFluffy> the throwout ramp design means I can get out the throttle and it throws itself out of gear instead of things exploding
[23:40:39] <andypugh> I suspect pawls and a magnet inside the shaft.
[23:40:53] <MrFluffy> maybe they use the same principle, shaped dogs and multiple engagement
[23:43:04] <andypugh> I am sure I saw that idea on the web.
[23:43:08] <MrFluffy> but, I am a amateur tinkerer in a shed, for me, the newcombe box is pretty much the pinnacle of gearbox tech I can use, without going to a epicyclic setup, which involves making a new crankcase
[23:43:31] <andypugh> (A magnet sliding inside the shaft to operate ratchet pawls)
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[23:43:56] <andypugh> Making a new crankcase sounds like fun
[23:43:58] <MrFluffy> I have roll pins through a slot in the gear shaft, much less high tech
[23:44:40] <MrFluffy> thats for when i can afford 800e for a block of stock big enough to make one from.
[23:44:43] <andypugh> Well, yes, the same effect with a rod and a slot and pegs in the middle of the shaft would work too.
[23:44:53] <andypugh> But would wear more.
[23:45:17] <MrFluffy> your engines in a bucket after 5 miles from fatigue in drag racing :)
[23:45:40] <andypugh> But then your drag bike engine probably fires low-hundreds of times on a run?
[23:46:11] <MrFluffy> yes, shut it down at the traps and tow back to save wear
[23:46:27] <andypugh> Do you need cooling?
[23:46:53] <MrFluffy> no, engine is a classic z1 which was aircooled, but the water guys run empty or solid block anyway
[23:47:14] <MrFluffy> I inject water/methanol, the charge cooler hasgone for now
[23:47:45] <MrFluffy> Ive moved the turbo up front recently too, nearer the supercharger, I needed more header length
[23:48:07] <andypugh> I found out recently that you can run a modern diesel engine with no coolant at all at 75mph indefinitely. There is enough airflow round the block at that speed to do the job.
[23:48:27] <MrFluffy> Im trying to steal some of mazda's design budget and use their ideas on the skyteam about header length and detonation suppression
[23:49:01] <MrFluffy> shell has a research centre in cheshire where they do that in cells, thornton research centre,but you probably know it
[23:50:59] <MrFluffy> skyactiv sorry, it uses extremely long primary headers, and couples the cylinders into complementary pairs for a dual intake turbo setup, and it lets them run a engine at 15:1 on ron95 without severe detonation
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[23:53:46] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Have you seen the Fath Urs engine from the 60s? That had some really interesting ideas.
[23:55:28] <MrFluffy> thats one way to squeeze larger ports into a dohc motor, interesting
[23:55:35] <andypugh> One that is very curious is that it is a 4 with two cranks. Effectively two separate 90-degree twin roller-bearing cranks slot in from each side and engage a single primary drive gear.
[23:56:25] <MrFluffy> I was noticing the chain driving the cams running from a idler shaft too
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[23:56:59] <MrFluffy> The primary gear area is always a weak spot...
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[23:57:37] <MrFluffy> the top fuel engines eliminate it and drive from the very end of the crank into a separate box for that reason amongst others...
[23:57:58] <andypugh> The Peugeot diesel engines have used the same inlet port arrangement, though with a 4-valve head. In that case one inlet is from the top and one from the front to promote swirl
[23:58:47] <MrFluffy> I have a bathtub shaped chamber and dual plugs for two flame fronts for that
[23:59:01] <andypugh> Fath drove from the end of the crank too. But the end of two shorter cranks. That sounds even better.
[23:59:37] <MrFluffy> two short cranks swings and roundabouts, you have a flexion point in the middle you dont have with one big long one
