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[00:07:14] <furrywolf> one of these days I really should finish writing my language.
[00:07:36] <furrywolf> I started designing a language combining many of the best features of different languages, all with a C syntax.
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[00:09:12] <furrywolf> C syntax, real arrays, strings, etc, fully OO, a function-call-level security model to allow running of foreign code, persistant variables and a relational database as inherent semantics... :P
[00:09:47] <furrywolf> oh, and inherent event-driven multithreading
[00:10:13] <furrywolf> it was... complicated. :)
[00:10:30] <furrywolf> and impossible to compile, which annoyed me.
[00:10:56] <furrywolf> if you wanted it to fully compile, you could only use a subset of the language. otherwise you could only JITC.
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[00:14:01] <furrywolf> it started when someone complained to me that MUF fucking sucked, something I agreed with. I'm not a mucker, but I started thinking how I could write a better engine... and it evolved from there.
[00:23:11] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, is there a way of controlling linuxcnc, or the jog part of it to be exact, remotely with some android tablet app?
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[00:23:25] <zeeshan> ^ lol
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[00:23:47] <furrywolf> is there a vnc client for android? :P
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[00:24:48] <LeelooMinai> That's not what I had in mind
[00:26:41] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, seems there is an article for using logitech joypad as a pendant
[00:26:51] <LeelooMinai> I think I have one of those, somewhere
[00:27:11] <furrywolf> I want to make a little box with three chinese mpg wheels on it, that you can twiddle just like a mini machine.
[00:27:48] <zeeshan> i accidently did a 1" deep cut
[00:27:53] <zeeshan> with a 3/8" cutter, full width of cut
[00:27:54] <zeeshan> whoops
[00:28:07] <zeeshan> it ate the aluminum
[00:28:09] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: And don't lol - using small tablet as a readout/jog panel makes perfect sense
[00:28:29] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: wireless doesn't seem safe
[00:28:51] <LeelooMinai> Use usb cable if you think wireless is somehow not-safe
[00:28:57] <zeeshan> then that is fine
[00:29:24] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZtPIMII.png
[00:29:27] <zeeshan> i love this tool path
[00:30:02] <LeelooMinai> You people are not good at thinking out of the box:)
[00:30:17] * LeelooMinai goes to search for the joypad
[00:30:23] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: gimme a break, thats all we did in undergrad
[00:30:25] <zeeshan> think out of the box
[00:30:36] <zeeshan> btw i got my china packets today
[00:30:37] <zeeshan> hooray
[00:30:54] <LeelooMinai> I did not know the ping to China is that bad
[00:30:54] <furrywolf> don't you have a thesis to be working on? :P
[00:31:08] <furrywolf> lol
[00:31:25] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i cant work on it anymore because i cant think outside of the box
[00:31:30] <zeeshan> :P
[00:32:06] <zeeshan> wow the toxic smell
[00:32:08] <zeeshan> of these leds
[00:32:09] <zeeshan> wow
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[00:36:48] <furrywolf> meh. I have about a million projects I'd do if I had more time, money, energy, and skill. the last one can be fixed with more of the first three, but the first three are hard.
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[00:38:30] <zeeshan-mill> Tom_itx, i cant clamp the 9x6.625x.125 plate in the vise
[00:38:35] <zeeshan-mill> it bends upwards :p
[00:38:56] <zeeshan-mill> i was hoping to get away without using a base plate
[00:39:02] <zeeshan-mill> doesnt look like that will work :D
[00:41:41] <LeelooMinai> What's up with this: "hal_joystick has been depreciated from EMC 2.4"? Any reasons?
[00:43:13] <furrywolf> what are you doing to the plate? can you position holddowns instead of using the vise?
[00:43:41] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: does the line immediately after that line answer it?
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[00:46:27] <LeelooMinai> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HereIsHowToCheck
[00:46:34] <LeelooMinai> So the answer is no
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[00:47:23] <furrywolf> hal_joystick has been depreciated from EMC 2.4
[00:47:23] <furrywolf> Note that halui now has analog jog inputs so there is no need to use the sim-encoder components A much simpler way to use a joypad is described here:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[00:47:38] <humble_sea_bass> deprecated
[00:48:21] <furrywolf> seems to me like the next line exactly answers your question. it's deprecated because there's improved functionality built into another component.
[00:48:45] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: There's nothing like that on that page for me
[00:49:22] <furrywolf> you dodn't give a page, so I googled it, and
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Using_A_Joypad_To_Jog_And_Control_Spindle_Speeds is the first result, which I pasted from. it links to
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[00:51:39] * furrywolf shakes head at the state of internet lyrics availability.
[00:51:56] <furrywolf> THREE SONGS IN A ROW that I've looked for lyrics of, I didn't find.
[00:52:46] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, "Note that halui now has analog jog inputs so there is no need to use the sim-encoder components"... What do they mean "no need":) All jogs are analog?
[00:56:29] <Tom_itx> technically digital is too
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[00:57:41] * LeelooMinai looks weirdly at Tom_itx
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[01:00:26] <furrywolf> "My fingers on my mind, I think about you all the time, but when you're here with me, it won't my fingers inside me"... nope. "B is for border.. C is for cattle... D is for daughter..."... nope. "and to eat you must cooperate to operate you live delegate and subjugate by services and needs"... nope. three songs in a row, google can't find lyrics.
[01:03:52] <furrywolf> either there's a distinct lack of lyrics searchable with google, or my music collection is unusual. :P
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[01:14:17] <furrywolf> and, sadly, 2 of the 3 bands there are gone with the main people dead. /me would have loved to see the pandoras or wall of voodoo live
[01:15:19] <furrywolf> iggy pop is still around, but I'm not enough of a fan to see him. heh.
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[01:26:45] <renesis> find new music, dont be a dinosaur
[01:27:02] <furrywolf> one of those is only a few years old.
[01:27:07] <Tom_itx> lots of the old stuff can't be replaced
[01:27:17] <renesis> if its gone its not new anymore =(
[01:27:34] <renesis> tom_itx: exactly so dont try and replace find other neat things
[01:27:41] <furrywolf> I haven't found much current music I like... how does one find small garage bands?
[01:27:54] <renesis> local shows in college towns
[01:27:58] <Tom_itx> door to door?
[01:28:15] <renesis> prob stuff in arcata
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[01:28:25] <renesis> also soundcloud
[01:28:43] <furrywolf> the currently popular music seems to be a stupidly high percentage of utter shit. (hint: anyone who has ever had their picture on the cover of a tabloid has never been involved in any music worth listening to.)
[01:28:55] <LeelooMinai> Look for houses with small garages?
[01:28:59] <furrywolf> sure, there's lots of bands in arcata, if you want to listen to god fucking awful stoner music.
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[01:29:33] <renesis> i think youre generalizing
[01:29:44] <renesis> most stoners dont play stonercore
[01:29:53] <LeelooMinai> They don't play at all:)
[01:30:10] <furrywolf> I've found a few good bands watching the dna lounge's webcast, but they switched providers to one that only runs windows-only streams.
[01:30:11] <renesis> pfft that definitely can be contradicted
[01:30:28] <furrywolf> renesis: most music here is some variation on stoner, reggae, or hiphop.
[01:30:48] <furrywolf> there's one rockabilly band, that always plays the same few songs that sound the same.
[01:30:57] <renesis> anyway, youre more likely to be able to find home brew rock and punk now than ever before
[01:31:03] <LeelooMinai> There's this internet thing - one can download albums of pretty unknown but good bands nowadays
[01:31:14] <renesis> ikr
[01:31:54] <renesis> theres a record attempt here for longest running show, dunno if its still going
[01:32:09] <renesis> they were trying to do a month, so definitely a lot of garage grade acts
[01:33:01] <renesis> also im laughing at your opinion of drug users, and then saying youre into iggy pop's work
[01:33:29] <furrywolf> as to the three songs I typed the lyrics from, youtube has them at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOjW_rhVFLU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uQQCXC6msw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2oEDkwdGJY all on youtube, but none have lyrics online. heh.
[01:33:47] <furrywolf> actually, no, I said I WASN'T into iggy pop. the other two I said I'd like to have seen.
[01:34:27] <renesis> 'not enough of a fan' kind of implies youre a bit of a fan
[01:34:29] <renesis> but nm
[01:34:41] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: I've had a _very_ hard time downloading many of the albums I've wanted.
[01:34:54] <furrywolf> I used to have a list of several hundred bands I wanted albums from, but couldn't find.
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[01:37:19] <renesis> wonder how many are on spotify
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[01:39:18] * furrywolf wishes the dna lounge had a lot more real bands and a lot fewer cover bands and guys with laptops
[01:40:04] <renesis> real bands like 3 to 5 guys doing roughly the same exact thing as several million people before them?
[01:40:37] <furrywolf> but differently. unless they're a cover band.
[01:41:37] <renesis> but also not on drugs
[01:41:57] <renesis> youre kind of a hard customer
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[01:44:07] <furrywolf> also, many of the best bands are 3-5 girls, not guys.
[01:45:35] <zeeshan> furrywolf: im using hold downs now
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[01:52:26] <furrywolf> https://youtu.be/cRZM0DDGgYo hrmm, they might have potential. (filmed at dna lounge)
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[01:54:25] <furrywolf> we don't have any music venues here, just small bars (<50 people maximum), so there's no out-of-area talent...
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[01:57:08] <furrywolf> she sounds a little like a young siouxsie, or the girl from the yeah yeah yeahs.
[01:57:43] <furrywolf> where's kickass.to these days? still domain hopping it looks like.
[01:58:25] * furrywolf adds it to the new list of hard-to-download bands
[01:59:36] <renesis> thats girl with the beard seems pretty talented
[02:00:47] <renesis> she does sound a little like the girl from yeah yeah yeahs
[02:00:57] <renesis> little less dramatic, moany
[02:01:41] <renesis> yeah yeah yeahs were badass live,for art star she just sticks the mic in her mouth, puts her arms back, looks up and screams like how she does
[02:02:45] <furrywolf> http://despotify.sourceforge.net/ hrmm, maybe spotify is finally usable without drm...
[02:03:14] <furrywolf> I like their legal section: Legal
[02:03:14] <furrywolf> "The Streisand effect is a phenomenon on the Internet where an attempt to censor or remove a piece of information backfires, causing the information to be widely publicized."
[02:03:29] <renesis> you really think spotify is overpriced?
[02:03:35] <renesis> its like $10 i think
[02:04:11] <furrywolf> I think only working with their propritary client is unacceptable even if free.
[02:04:50] <renesis> why
[02:05:00] <renesis> youre renting
[02:05:15] <renesis> at a mind blowingly cheap rate
[02:05:42] <renesis> monthly cost is less than one retail CD, and you can easily listen to 100 albums in a month
[02:05:56] <renesis> so like, $10 to rent $1500 worth of music
[02:06:17] <furrywolf> first, there's the moral and ethical issues. second, there's the technical issues, like it apparantly only sorta works in WINE, and I don't have the bandwidth to stream, instead downloading and playing later... usually in my car.
[02:06:32] <renesis> you dont have to stream
[02:06:40] <renesis> and i believe theres a web interface
[02:06:58] <renesis> also youre talented enough to rip the stream easily
[02:07:24] <renesis> and you dont have a smartphone?
[02:07:38] * furrywolf finds it very unlikely that there's a drm-free web interface
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[02:07:42] <renesis> i download spotify tracks for local offline play before every trip
[02:07:47] <furrywolf> no smartphone, and no coverage anyway.
[02:08:01] <renesis> my point is why do you feel the need to own it if the rate is so low to listen to it
[02:08:29] <furrywolf> ?
[02:08:33] <renesis> at 3 albums a day its literally a penny an album to listen
[02:08:45] <renesis> drm is about ownership
[02:09:03] <renesis> they allow offline playback, and their rental rate is mind blowingly low
[02:09:25] <renesis> if you have moral issues with it, paypal the artists money directly
[02:09:51] <furrywolf> again, even ignoring the moral issues, there's the technical ones. from what I've read, while the client does run in wine, it does not work well.
[02:10:15] <furrywolf> and they only have a small percentage of the albums I want.
[02:10:29] <renesis> youve checked?
[02:13:06] <furrywolf> hrmm, the despotify page claims spotify uses crap quality.
[02:13:20] <renesis> its mp3
[02:13:33] <renesis> im not sure what high quality mode is
[02:14:07] <renesis> mog was 320kbps but i think they killed it when they changed it to beats music and ignored fixing the web interface for over 6 months
[02:14:23] <furrywolf> they say it's vorbis, not mp3, and at low bitrate.
[02:14:28] <renesis> most the acoustic engineers i worked with were fine using 320kbps for referencing
[02:15:16] <renesis> honestly i listen to it through etymotic in ear monitors, which are well regarded for reference, amd have been listening to remastered albums, and it sounds great
[02:15:33] <furrywolf> except they say it's not 320.
[02:15:42] <renesis> and again, like $.01 per album, with really impressive selection
[02:15:47] <renesis> i didnt say it was
[02:15:51] <renesis> i said mog was
[02:16:07] <renesis> and that i dont think beats music is (they made it out of mog)
[02:16:51] <renesis> do you listen on reference monitors or headphones? prob doesnt matter much in a car
[02:16:57] <renesis> the car is going to fuck the music up more
[02:16:59] * furrywolf isn't familiar with mog, and googles
[02:17:06] <renesis> its dead
[02:17:12] <furrywolf> JBL 4311s when I want to hear detail
[02:17:36] <furrywolf> (reference monitors, '70s vintage)
[02:17:58] <renesis> those look a bit ew
[02:18:09] <furrywolf> ?
[02:18:39] <furrywolf> are you badmouthing one of the highest-rated monitors of all time? :)
[02:18:42] <renesis> old, 3 way
[02:19:04] <renesis> yeah people like tannoys too and they looked pretty meh when i measured them
[02:19:37] <renesis> ns10 have some amazing qualities, i wouldnt mind owning a pair, but theyre not flat
[02:20:20] <renesis> it has an alnico woofer motor?
[02:20:35] <furrywolf> they were designed to be top-of-the-line... as an example, here's what the 4" mids look like:
http://fw.bushytails.net/jblmids.jpg yes, that's a 4" mid. yes, it's an alnico magnet larger than the average ricer truck-rattling sub.
[02:21:12] <renesis> because theyre not powerful magnets
[02:21:31] <renesis> i dont think theyre used outside of guitar speakers anymore
[02:21:54] <furrywolf> not powerful compared to a $1000 chunk of rare-earths, perhaps. quite powerful compared to the ceramic magnets in virtually everything else.
[02:23:40] <furrywolf> I might be getting a pair of the 4312s with titanium dome tweeters... need to go bug the guy. he was supposed to call back.
[02:25:19] <furrywolf> every part of them is designed to be quality... even pointless stamped wax seals on the screws, just so you can take your drivers out and be sure they haven't been tampered with. lol
[02:25:49] <renesis> not a big fan of titanium tweeters
[02:27:00] <furrywolf> the voice coils are all edge-wound flat copper. no round magnet wire.
[02:27:13] <furrywolf> I've never heard a titanium tweeter, so I don't know if I like them or not.
[02:27:45] <renesis> it depends a lot on the design. they're metal, they'll ring
[02:28:08] <furrywolf> I have a pair of AMT1s in storage... I should refoam them one of these days, just so I can listen to the AMT tweeters again.
[02:29:51] <furrywolf> http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/ess-amt-1-112309.jpg those. (mine are in much, much worse shape)
[02:30:13] <furrywolf> the thing on top is the tweeter. :)
[02:31:23] <furrywolf> my living room stereo right now is more of the loud party variety... Sansui! 14" 6-way and 16" 5-way.
[02:31:32] <renesis> looks goofy, would not trust until measured
[02:32:04] <furrywolf> JBL: "Let's make each driver perfect." Sansui: "I think we have room to cram another driver in this corner here..."
[02:32:30] <renesis> so i cant find a good explanation, but basically alnico are sold as having musical compression
[02:33:25] <furrywolf> that's crap for guitar amps where people intentionally overdrive them
[02:33:27] <renesis> it could just be old gap designs which rely solely on the umf of the magnet, but may be related to how the magnet is oriented
[02:33:38] <furrywolf> for a reference monitor, they're used because of the very strong field you can get from them
[02:34:13] <renesis> yeah but if the field isnt consistent srength doesnt matter
[02:34:27] <renesis> you just get a normal, elliptical Bl and Cms plot on a Klippel DA
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[02:35:17] <renesis> if you dont do stuff to smooth out the field, the strength decreases with excursion which is distortion
[02:36:30] <renesis> with ferrites you can do a bunch of shit with the pole and top plate(s) so you take the energy and focus and normalize it, and you get more ideal, square Cms and Bl vs excursion curves
[02:37:09] <furrywolf> I've never listened to the AMTs on a properly working speaker... but I've heard they sound quite nice when you do.
[02:37:28] <renesis> shrug, nice doesnt mean accurate
[02:37:56] <renesis> in most tests, accurate is not considered nice =(
[02:38:02] <furrywolf> the worst-sounding speakers I own are my klipschs... utter trash. I don't know why people like them.
[02:38:11] <renesis> status
[02:38:21] <renesis> shrug, some of their products are okay
[02:38:28] <furrywolf> they consist of two plastic woofers and a horn. they SOUND LIKE two plastic woofers and a horn. speakers should not sound like things.
[02:38:41] <renesis> most home stuff is voiced, if youre into reference sound a lot of it will sound goofy
[02:39:07] <renesis> furry thats basically how i feel about most metal tweeters
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[02:39:31] <renesis> soft tweeters dont sound like anything, dont ring
[02:39:45] <renesis> maybe dont reproduce out to light, but who cares
[02:39:58] <furrywolf> the jbls are simply the clearest speakers I've ever heard... everything else is muddy after listening to them. that 10lb midrange is definitely part of this.
[02:40:00] <renesis> last octave is trash anyway
[02:40:26] <renesis> you need to listen to some Genelecs or ADAMs
[02:40:56] <renesis> some end of the line EQ'd active speakers with DSP preamps
[02:41:22] <furrywolf> my sansuis sound like crap compared to the jbls, but they have the advantage of being able to make things bounce around on tables, which would be unhealthy to try with the jbls. there's something to be said about having a half dozen square feet of cone area.
[02:41:53] <furrywolf> well, I won't say that. they sansuis don't sound like crap. they're perfectly good speakers. but they're not reference monitors, and the horns show.
[02:42:37] <renesis> if you send me your speakers ill measure them
[02:43:01] <furrywolf> right now my living room has about 10ft2 of cone. :)
[02:43:04] <renesis> thats prob not bad work
[02:43:47] <renesis> youd have to take a knife to them and show me the VC and split motor components to really impress me
[02:43:57] <furrywolf> I got a pair of '70s pioneer speakers last summer... they actually sound surprisingly nice. they have fancy wood grilles like the sansuis, but the fit and finish is better... and they don't have the annoying horn-ness of the sansuis.
[02:44:12] <renesis> my first job was working on 21" subwoofers, eventually the 15" woofers started looking tiny
[02:44:50] <renesis> a lot of stuff with trucks in the motor geometry, confirmed as functional on industry standard transducer test equiment
[02:45:19] <renesis> big is neat, but i want to see squares on a Bl or Cms versus X plot
[02:45:26] <furrywolf> heh, my living room has three pairs in it right now... the 16" 5-way sansuis, the 14" 6-way sansuis, and the 12" 3-way pioneers. that's 28 drivers...
[02:45:47] <renesis> i hope you dont use them all at once
[02:45:56] <furrywolf> of course I do. :P
[02:46:21] <furrywolf> it creates some interesting effects, and there's a dead spot by my front door where the woofers on opposite sides of the room cancel out
[02:46:34] <renesis> bragging about decades old passives in your signal path and crazy amounts of comb filters is a bit odd
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[02:47:14] <furrywolf> my storage unit/shop has the klipshs and a pair of yamahas, plus a subwoofer unit that I haven't hooked up yet but keep meaning to
[02:47:14] <renesis> im actually disasspointed because you are much more technical than that
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[02:47:21] <furrywolf> the jbls are currently on loan to someone
[02:47:35] <renesis> i fully expect you to rip the passive covers out and go to full active with DSP frontends in the near future
[02:47:39] <furrywolf> the AMT1s are awaiting refoaming, and the dyanacos aren't worth actually hooking up.
[02:47:57] <furrywolf> the best part is I'm running the living room speakers off a car amp. :P
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[02:48:10] <renesis> and youre bitching about audio file quality?
[02:48:19] <renesis> no drugs in your rock n roll music
[02:48:43] <renesis> high quality digital audio for two very acoustically fucked spaces
[02:48:45] <furrywolf> none of my good amps are currently working. :(
[02:48:47] <renesis> =(
[02:48:51] <renesis> oh that sucks
[02:49:02] <renesis> my subwoofer has XLR that are going intermittent
[02:49:10] <renesis> i actually worked on a derivative product
[02:49:28] <renesis> fuckin larry, cheapin out on the XLR jacks, didnt get the neutrik for the entry level products
[02:50:02] <renesis> i dont want to take it apart because im pretty sure the connectors are mounted to the preamp board with a ton of random glue to air seal them
[02:50:19] <furrywolf> the pioneer sx-1010 needs an output set, the kenwood l07m pair, one blows the main fuse (likely outputs), the other the control fuse. the marantz kept taking longer to turn on and eventaully stopped, one pioneer sx-828 has a dc offset issue (tracked it down to something in the bias regulator, but didn't have time to finish), the other won't turn on the protection relay even though the main output looks good, the sansui quad distorts on two channels,..
[02:50:25] <renesis> since random china glue, may fuck the preamp if i try and rework (tho sometimes they use this rubber stuff almost like RTV)
[02:50:36] <renesis> its fine unless I turn it up
[02:51:01] <renesis> then the left mains monitor starts fucking up because its a crossed over XLR out
[02:51:11] <renesis> paper shim worked for two days
[02:51:41] <furrywolf> I got a sansui amp at a yard sale two weeks ago, an au-717. haven't tested it yet.
[02:51:55] <furrywolf> my stack of amps needing fixing is way too large, but they all require time and money.
[02:51:55] <renesis> i think i had one of those stuck in thermal protection
[02:52:11] <renesis> yeah i threw all that shit out
[02:52:42] <renesis> for the time and money its easier to just make a 50W to 100W chipamp and bridge/parallel to get power needed
[02:52:55] <renesis> better performance, hella simple
[02:53:16] <furrywolf> none of the amps I have will be thrown out. even broken, their ebay value is non-trivial.
[02:53:27] <renesis> everyone in audio mostly using STmicro amps
[02:53:31] <renesis> oh, thats neat
[02:53:38] <renesis> i dont like selling stuff on ebay
[02:54:29] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-4080DSM-/261814480517 that's currently the main amp in my living room. lol
[02:54:33] <renesis> anyway, i think you should sell all the things and buy some good speakers that arent 100 years old
[02:55:29] <furrywolf> it's a car amp, but it has very good specs, and quite a bit of non-marketing power.
[02:55:44] <renesis> they didnt market amps like that
[02:56:01] <renesis> home audio people swallow that shit, but the car audio people have DMM and know better
[02:56:16] <renesis> in many cases, they were underrated so do better in db drag competitions
[02:56:22] <renesis> *to do better
[02:56:23] <furrywolf> eh? most car audio stuff has utter bullshit ratings.
[02:56:28] <renesis> goofy section of the industry
[02:56:45] <renesis> yeah maybe like, Pyle shit
[02:56:45] <furrywolf> 200W RMS!!!! Input: 12V, 10A fuse.
[02:57:04] <renesis> caps furry
[02:57:26] <renesis> anyway, many car audio amps will exceed their ratings by a bit
[02:57:36] <renesis> more than is typical headroom for credible products
[02:59:07] <furrywolf> this amp has a 60A input fuse, and pulls all of it. 160W RMS/channel, both channels driven, at 12.6V battery voltage, 0.1% THD. 220W at 14.4V. Most manufacturers put the 14.4V rating on the package, pretending there's no voltage drop in the wiring/etc, while this one puts the real-world number on the box...
[03:00:00] <renesis> its all just marketing until you put it on an AP
[03:00:03] <furrywolf> no, most car audio amp ratings these days are _utter bullshit_. in the same realm as home theater power ratings.
[03:00:26] <renesis> ha, company i did home audio for didnt have power rated
[03:00:40] <renesis> spec was like, AMPLIFIER: 9 OF THEM
[03:00:51] <furrywolf> lol
[03:00:58] <renesis> its the way it should be done
[03:01:23] <furrywolf> I really should fix the kenwood L-07ms. big monoblocks. dc-600khz. yes, 600khz. because your home stereo needs to be able to double as an AM broadcasting station.
[03:01:53] <renesis> how did it die
[03:02:25] <furrywolf> dunno. one pops the line fuse (dead-short variety of pop), the other blows the control board fuse (gentle overload variety of blows).
[03:02:40] <furrywolf> I got them in this condition.
[03:02:57] <furrywolf> they have six unobtainium output trannies
[03:03:05] <renesis> i would sell them because dc to light is not worth the problems
[03:03:24] <furrywolf> I'm going to guess the one that pops the line fuse needs a set of them, while the one that blows the control fuse has a less-expensive problem.
[03:03:26] <renesis> wtf output transformers
[03:04:06] <renesis> youre too educated for this trash
[03:04:13] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-STEREO-PAIR-KENWOOD-L-07M-MONO-BLOCK-AMPLIFIERS-AMPS-plug-and-play-/121566160349 little compact monoblocks
[03:04:21] <renesis> sell all the things, build/buy some chipamps, get a mini-dsp
[03:04:27] <renesis> make everything better
[03:04:59] <renesis> to-3
[03:05:45] <renesis> shit might as well be painted polkadots and be wearing bellbottoms
[03:06:13] <furrywolf> I'm not quite sure why kenwood decided they needed to go to 600khz. am broadcast radio starts at 535khz I think...
[03:06:35] <renesis> to sell to people who need to keep up with the joneses
[03:07:53] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX-1010-Stereo-Receiver-Professionally-Restored-Awesome-New-LEDs-/171721489255 my one of those needs an output pair
[03:09:43] <renesis> sell all the things, buy active speaker bits or modern ref monitors
[03:09:45] <renesis> !
[03:10:09] <renesis> youll be happier
[03:10:26] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-SX-828-RECEIVER-FM-AM-WORK-WELL-50-WATT-PER-/261791414204 I have two of those, probably the easiest fixes of the lot. one (used to be my bedroom stereo) has a slight (50mv) dc offset, looks to be a problem in the bias regulator circuit (I couldn't find the negative 1.whatever reference). the other won't turn on the protection relay even though the output from the amp board is flawless.
[03:11:00] <furrywolf> I can't remember the models of my other ones right now. they're all in a stack in storage. heh.
[03:11:35] <renesis> sell!
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[03:11:59] <furrywolf> a nice marantz that kept taking longer and longer to turn on and finally stopped (something has drifted out of spec), and a sansui quad that distorts on two channels.
[03:12:21] <furrywolf> heh, they sell for a lot more working! note the $900 price tag on the sx-1010...
[03:12:55] <renesis> yeah is anyone buying?
[03:13:11] <renesis> sell to people who think they will fix and sell for way more!
[03:13:18] <renesis> sell! sell! sell!
[03:13:21] <renesis> k no more advice
[03:13:36] <furrywolf> every listing I pasted sold.
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[03:13:52] <furrywolf> I just picked up a
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SANSUI-AU-717-INTEGRATED-85-WATT-AMPLIFIER-SERVICED-EXCELLENT-ORIGINAL-MANUAL-/121544281313 , haven't tested it yet. it's still sitting in the back of my car.
[03:14:11] <renesis> i had that
[03:14:21] <renesis> i didnt want to completely disassembly to debug right
[03:14:40] <renesis> japanese were pretty good at the whole packaging thing
[03:14:56] <furrywolf> heh, yep. the pioneers I have are packed solid.
[03:15:05] <renesis> heh
[03:15:13] <renesis> and then there was my 90s technics amp
[03:15:36] <renesis> 1/3 PSU, 1/3 heatsink, and 1/3 chipamp and preamp
[03:15:52] <renesis> everything flat and accessible from above with cover removed
[03:15:58] <renesis> because panasonic <3s us
[03:16:28] * furrywolf won't touch anything with a stk chip
[03:16:40] <furrywolf> and last I checked, those technics amps had stk chips.
[03:16:53] <renesis> and mine never blew up
[03:17:00] <renesis> other hacker says in the 70s, they loved them
[03:17:11] <renesis> 15 minute repair, quick $100
[03:17:36] <renesis> also they look neat when they blow up
[03:17:45] <renesis> all hollow inside with big giant parts
[03:18:38] <furrywolf> everything with a stk chip blows up eventually, they sound like crap from day one, the chips are stupidly expensive, they take out the rest of the amp board when they go (ALWAYS a dead short from the rails to the low-level inputs), and since they're a low-quality budget design, the rest of the amp is always crap too.
[03:19:02] <renesis> mine sounded fine
[03:19:26] <renesis> also considering what conditions you listen in, im not sure you get to have an opinion on what sounds good, heh
[03:19:31] <furrywolf> I have a fisher with a blown stk that you can have if you pay shipping. :P
[03:19:42] <furrywolf> or maybe I tossed it in the trash. don't remember.
[03:19:43] <renesis> why would i want that
[03:20:09] * renesis points at chipamp PCBs and tube of 50W ST TDA chips
[03:20:16] <furrywolf> I've fixed a number of amps with stk chips, and have always been disappointed.
[03:20:37] <furrywolf> they're always overrated instead of underrated like quality amps, the sound is never great, and the amp overall is always poor quality.
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[03:21:28] <renesis> do you have measurements to back this up?
[03:21:53] <renesis> also, that chip is 40 years old
[03:21:58] <renesis> its literally older than me
[03:21:58] <furrywolf> if you're going to build a quality amp, you build a quality discrete output stage to go with it... not toss a random chip in and a copy of the test circuit straight from the datasheet.
[03:22:04] <LeelooMinai> Can Linuxcnc be remotelly controlled by some network protocol?
[03:22:13] <renesis> furrywolf: yeah in 1980
[03:22:33] <renesis> for <= 100W, discrete is silly, just problems
[03:22:36] <furrywolf> of course, the advantage of this is you don't need schematics for each amp, as they're all the same. :P
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[03:28:39] <renesis> heh
[03:28:56] <renesis> neighbor just gave me some mackie SRM speakers to troubleshoot
[03:29:11] <renesis> prob just thermal protection from the trap
[03:29:51] <renesis> nice, pulled the earth pin
[03:31:19] <furrywolf> always a good sign. non.
[03:31:20] <furrywolf> not.
[03:32:16] <renesis> theyre plastic!
[03:37:24] <furrywolf> that means they're not worth fixing.
[03:41:16] <renesis> except QSC K-series are plastic and they sound better and have more power than all your speakers!
[03:41:38] <renesis> this thing got problems bbl
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[03:46:45] <furrywolf> seriously, -6db is 66hz? more proof plastic speakers are trash.
[03:49:09] <furrywolf> my jbls are -3db at 45hz
[03:49:11] <renesis> lots of wood speakers do worse?
[03:49:31] <renesis> K12 are like 50Hz
[03:49:35] <renesis> and they has a sub!
[03:50:15] <furrywolf> also, using -6db is just plain misleading marketing, when everyone else uses -3db.
[03:50:44] <renesis> as long as you spec it
[03:50:45] <furrywolf> k12 is 52hz -6db according to their specs. -3db will be higher.
[03:50:55] <renesis> i kind of like -6db and -10db numbers
[03:51:13] <renesis> in any case, neither is a replacement for freq response plots
[03:51:18] <furrywolf> also, lol @ 2000W drawing 2A at 110V.
[03:51:58] <renesis> those are the amp modules
[03:52:14] <renesis> its marketing, but if you pull out the amps and test them, theyre 1000W amps
[03:52:37] <furrywolf> LOL! the k-sub is 48hz -6db. that's substantially worse than the -3db 45hz of my jbls. and jbls aren't even meant to be subs - they're studio monitors! with better bass response than an overpriced sub.
[03:52:54] <renesis> they have good DSP, theyre limiting (dynamic bass EQ, sliding filters) works much more transparently than the competition
[03:53:04] <renesis> side by side testing, they make other speakers look silly
[03:53:29] <renesis> SRM were cool, being the first, original made by RCF in italy or some shit, now made in china
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[03:53:48] <renesis> furrywolf: your jbls would die in 20 seconds at a show
[03:54:05] <renesis> its silly to compare studio monitors with workhorse active speakers
[03:54:23] <renesis> i seen these things rusted and dented still pushing audio
[03:54:26] <furrywolf> correct. they're studio monitors. they're meant to be used while mixing, not trying to fill a stadium.
[03:54:51] <renesis> um, these fill tiny venues
[03:54:59] <renesis> and your monitors are ancient
[03:55:14] <renesis> soft parts prob all stretched the fuck out =)
[03:55:58] <furrywolf> less than 1% THD, and a nice flat frequency response over a nice wide range.
[03:56:29] <renesis> measured or quoting 30 year old marketing
[03:57:13] <furrywolf> quoting. and I believe their 30 year old marketing a lot more than I believe most new marketing. the numbers add up, for example. :P
[03:58:23] <renesis> i dont trust marketing
[03:58:28] <renesis> i trust measurements
[03:58:31] <furrywolf> http://www.oaktreevintage.com/web_photos/hi-fi/Jerry_G_OakTreeVintage_1960s-1970s-1980s_Classic-Vintage_Stereo_Speakers_dealer-collection-smaller.jpg I have several of those pairs. lol
[04:00:00] <zeeshan> !
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[04:02:03] <furrywolf> hrmm, my sansuis claim to go down to 25hz, but the specs I found convieniently don't mention whether that's -3db or -30db...
[04:02:34] <renesis> id rather have a spec with a random rolloff value than one without
[04:02:49] <renesis> you can test really easy
[04:02:55] <renesis> do a nearfield
[04:03:03] <renesis> if theyre ported, you have to do summed nearfield
[04:03:16] <renesis> and sum them proportional to radiating area
[04:03:57] <renesis> get really good measurements up to around 100-150 Hz until you hit the baffle step
[04:05:28] <renesis> dont you hate it when you leave the channel mute on and think youve instantly gone deaf in one ear
[04:06:12] <renesis> hehe, so this thing was cutting out and lighting up the peak LED any mild kick
[04:06:17] <renesis> even with the 75Hz HPF on
[04:06:18] <furrywolf> no, because it's never happened.
[04:06:36] <renesis> so either psu or mechanical
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[04:06:45] <renesis> but then i hit it in the heatsink
[04:07:05] <renesis> if i did it hard enough to get it tilting on its feat, same cut out, same clip LED
[04:07:15] <renesis> def mechanical
[04:07:36] <renesis> w00t #justspeakerthings
[04:13:59] <furrywolf> can't find specs for my other sansuis. oh well.
[04:14:37] <furrywolf> they have way too large of drivers for the size of the box, so I'm not expecting them to be great. :)
[04:15:06] <renesis> thay might have low Vas, shrug
[04:15:07] <furrywolf> sansui didn't like leaving any space available on the front of the cabinet. have to stick a driver everywhere one will fit.
[04:15:27] <renesis> anyway, if you want to know, measure them
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[04:30:05] <zeeshan-mill> man ive been running this mill for like 7 hours
[04:30:11] <zeeshan-mill> so tired :/
[04:31:10] <furrywolf> go to bed? that's what I'm about to do.
[04:31:36] <zeeshan-mill> one more hour
[04:31:52] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I think I will make my own board to grab data from the indicator and pass onto rs485 network
[04:32:11] <LeelooMinai> And then I will get at it from linuxcnc
[04:32:36] <LeelooMinai> Seems like the most robust and flexible plan
[04:32:59] <zeeshan-mill> hows the response time
[04:33:07] <zeeshan-mill> for the dial indicator data over serial
[04:33:50] <LeelooMinai> It's kind of irrelevant in this case
[04:34:11] <LeelooMinai> Because the indicator sends data periodically at it's own rate
[04:34:31] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, let me see how frequent it is - I have it in the logic analyzer capture
[04:34:43] <zeeshan-mill> i didnt ask for relevance =p
[04:34:53] <LeelooMinai> About 9 times per second
[04:34:56] <zeeshan-mill> i want to know how many samples per sec it can handle
[04:35:06] <zeeshan-mill> thats not bad at all
[04:35:33] <zeeshan-mill> probing!
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[04:35:53] <LeelooMinai> Well, that depends on the signal chain. IN my case I will have rs485 -> transceiver iC -> some micro -> ftdi to usb
[04:36:16] <LeelooMinai> BUt rs485 in itself should be no problem - at such short distances it can do 10Mbps no problem
[04:36:57] <LeelooMinai> And good thing is I can add any number of monitors on it - more indicators or some callipers or whatever
[04:37:33] <LeelooMinai> I will have to make the board though since it will need to handle low voltage signalling - 1.2V as those indicators seem to do
[04:38:07] <LeelooMinai> It will be pretty small and cheap though
[04:38:15] <furrywolf> "432,065,306 22.8M/s in 19s" I really wish my home connection download things that fast.
[04:38:44] <LeelooMinai> btw, I already sent my solar project monitor board to fab:
http://i.imgur.com/OCg8ADK.png
[04:39:04] <LeelooMinai> It has rs-485 too and 1-wire - for sensors
[04:39:15] <furrywolf> that's 22.8 megaBYTES/second.
[04:39:49] <furrywolf> at home, I get about 22 kilobytes/second.
[04:41:28] <LeelooMinai> I usually have abut 30Mbps - kind of normal-ish nowadays
[04:41:38] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[04:42:16] <furrywolf> that's a gigabyte in 40 seconds... takes all day here. heh.
[04:42:16] <furrywolf> bbl
[04:45:03] <renesis> w00t
[04:45:14] <renesis> hot smps resistor melted the plastic RF shield onto it
[04:45:22] <renesis> and ewas shorting it out through conductive paint
[04:45:55] <renesis> so not even low enough to burn the conductive helix of resistance material on the resistor, just the outer coat came off
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[04:58:07] <Cromaglious_> hmm my machine was locked up... dunno when it happened..
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[05:05:42] <Cromaglious_> sulu's birthday today
[05:05:43] -!- JohnyK [JohnyK!~wity@witypc.ynet.sk] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:05:50] <Cromaglious_> George is 78 today
[05:09:47] <renesis> i really like that guy
[05:10:51] <renesis> when i was a kid i got a lo pan headshot signed by him, no idea where that went
[05:11:27] <renesis> hehe, all like FIND ME THE GIRL WITH THE GREEN EYES!! [autograph]
[05:11:59] <renesis> hope he outlives that fucker kirk
[05:14:12] <Cromaglious_> George is number 1 in our book
[05:21:37] <Cromaglious_> hmm gotta engrave some signs tomorrow. gotta find the wood tomorrow morning.
[05:28:52] <Cromaglious_> 3 signs:
[05:29:11] <Cromaglious_> Cupboard under the stairs in 4 Privet Drive, Little Whinging,Surrey; Dromio of Ephesus; Dromio of Syracuse
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[06:51:12] <Deejay> moin
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[08:30:28] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/lm8k9
[08:30:31] <zeeshan> progress on the clutch pedal
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[09:44:47] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, lookin good
[09:45:01] <XXCoder> yeah
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[12:48:41] <archivist> partial toy
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MITUTOYO-AE122-CO-ORDINATE-MEASURING-MACHINE-NO-PROBE-AND-READOUT-/121621224760
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[13:07:20] <pcw_home> Jusr add a probe and linuxcnc (wonder if it still working scales)
[13:10:38] <pcw_home> still _has_ working scale
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[13:21:31] <archivist> contemplating adding linuxcnc to my citizen homebrew measuring machine
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[13:34:03] <_methods> linuxcmm
[13:35:19] <archivist> need to control a camera though as most of my measuring is non contact
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[14:08:12] <lair82> Good Morning Guys, using my MPG handwheel, I notice that the x and y are backwards in relation to the direction of spinning the handle. Would the INVERT component be my best bet for fixing that?
[14:08:27] <lair82> The Z is correct,
[14:08:51] <cradek> it's very hard to see how you would get that
[14:08:57] <pcw_home> or swap the A/B wires
[14:08:57] <cradek> how's it hooked up in hal?
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[14:09:15] <cradek> pcw_home: but Z is right
[14:09:39] <lair82> Yes, my z is right, ax and y are backwards
[14:09:43] <pcw_home> what are the MPGs wired to?
[14:09:53] <cradek> lair82: what is the actual behavior you see?
[14:10:20] <archivist> separate hand wheels for all axes?
[14:10:50] <cradek> ok now I'll stop asking questions and wait for answers :-)
[14:11:47] <lair82> It is wired to a 7i73. when turning the mpg clockwise, x is going left -positive- , y comes out -positive- , z goes up -positive-. Only one mpg, with a selector between the axes
[14:12:27] <cradek> that is the correct behavior
[14:12:30] <lair82> I want clockwise z pos, x neg, y neg.
[14:12:39] <cradek> nope, you don't :-)
[14:13:14] <lair82> It doesn't feel right, turning it one way and the axis is going the opposite.
[14:14:18] <lair82> I guess I have never paid attention when working on the other machines as to which way things are moving using the handwheels on those machines.
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[14:17:50] <lair82> Just went out and looked, and I guess I am the crazy one, they do all go positive when rotated clockwise. Never mind me, just doesn't feel natural.
[14:18:42] <cradek> maybe it'll make you feel better if I share a little secret
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[14:19:07] <lair82> ???
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[14:19:14] <cradek> on my front-tool lathe I inverted the direction of X's wheel so it feels like a manual lathe
[14:19:28] <cradek> even though that makes it backward cnc-wise
[14:20:10] <cradek> (also scaled it by half for X so the detents are diameters)
[14:20:58] <cradek> I really suspect this is the main reason why cnc lathes tend to have the tools in the back/top
[14:21:05] <cradek> it makes the arcs feel more right, too
[14:21:16] <lair82> I guess I'm not nuts then :) but, I better leave it alone though, 4 other machining centers all lined up next to my Linux machine, don't need any body to crash a machine.
[14:22:03] <cradek> yeah, better let it conform to expectations
[14:22:14] <cradek> I'm the only one who uses my machines
[14:22:14] <lair82> That is true, thats why I asked in the first place, all three turning centers I have converted over to Linuxcnc all move in the same direction related to the handwheel movement.
[14:23:04] <lair82> Any way thanks guys, guess I will go back to tuning drives.
[14:24:09] <lair82> Also, zero noise/oscillation since I moved that jumper on my 7i49 yesterday, Thanks pcw_home
[14:24:57] <pcw_home> yeah if you overload the 7I49 input your position gets all lumpy
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[14:25:19] <pcw_home> 4 bumps per turn
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[14:26:25] <pcw_home> If I was a bit smarter I would have AGC, but its manual for now
[14:38:37] <lair82> AGC ??
[14:39:12] <archivist> in my day that was automatic gain control
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[15:13:07] <dirty_d> hrrm, need to mount this
http://i.imgur.com/hEObEl1.jpg on here
http://i.imgur.com/lckqPXQ.jpg
[15:13:21] <dirty_d> blue circle will be a hole
[15:13:38] <dirty_d> the cast aluminum seems like its only about 0.125" thick
[15:13:49] <dirty_d> jbweld?
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[15:27:39] <archivist> or make a new casting
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[15:30:37] <dirty_d> too much work
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[15:31:23] <dirty_d> only get a few hours a week to work on this stuff
[15:31:33] <dirty_d> and summer is quickly approaching
[15:32:54] <dirty_d> didnt plan on threading the holes, guess I'll have to if i mount it like that though
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[15:33:22] <dirty_d> holes are about 0.207" I guess thats close enough for an M6 thread
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[15:37:33] <dirty_d> actually 1/4-28 would be better
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[15:40:57] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/8AkANOH.jpg
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[15:41:29] <Tecan> not mine figured ide share tho
[15:41:57] <_methods> that's going to be a nice table
[15:42:22] <dirty_d> hefty
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[15:52:22] <Cromaglious_> Looks like my dads work bench at the Morro Bay house
[15:55:17] <Cromaglious_> he made 3/8-16 nuts 2.5" in diameter with to holes in the face for turning with a pin wrench using 3/8-16 all thread. there is one every 18" set into a hole cut with a Forstner bit
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[16:25:19] <zeeshan> tecan that looks nice man
[16:25:30] <zeeshan> are you going to hand plane it in the end?
[16:26:12] <Tecan> that or you could plane it beforehand and line up the flat sides on one side
[16:26:22] <Tecan> then belt sand
[16:26:40] <Tecan> glue to fill the cracks and laminate it ?
[16:26:54] <Tecan> keep the sap from smelling
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[16:27:30] <Tecan> put 2 caps over the ends to
[16:27:32] <Tecan> o
[16:27:44] <zeeshan> its going to look nice :)
[16:28:03] <zeeshan> i bet you can put 4000lb of stuff on it
[16:28:05] <zeeshan> before it creeks
[16:28:06] <zeeshan> :)
[16:28:54] <Tecan> i havnt built one yet, just seen a guy from #lmms posted it
[16:29:01] <zeeshan> ah
[16:29:07] <zeeshan> its a nice design
[16:29:13] <Tecan> probably will in a couple months when i start the addition on a trailer
[16:29:39] <Tecan> build a little workshop, work 5 years pay everything off then build a shop
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[17:06:33] <Loetmichel> hmm, after four weeks and the update service annoying me for the last few days... it was time to reboot the win7 here ;-)
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[17:36:05] <skunkworks> wow - that is pretty simple..
http://www.instructables.com/id/Zeroing-a-CNC-with-a-USB-Microscope/
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[17:41:51] <Deejay> namd
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[17:48:30] <JT-Shop> I need that on my plasma
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[18:02:23] <_methods> laser beam lol
[18:02:27] <_methods> pew pew
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[18:07:40] <Tom_itx> do you mount the camera like a tool?
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[18:10:19] <_methods> on a shapeoko lol
[18:10:49] <_methods> not even the tool is mounted like a tool lol
[18:11:14] <_methods> the clamping..........
[18:11:34] <_methods> he must have had zeeshan helping
[18:14:09] <Tom_itx> no doubt!
[18:14:14] <_methods> hehe
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[18:30:27] <_methods> ugh i have to relearn how to sharpen drill bits
[18:30:29] * JT-Shop goes to wander around the yard and look for the mower blade that fell off
[18:30:45] <JT-Shop> I still want to try on my surface grinder
[18:30:45] <_methods> i'm so used to just throwing bits in the carbide bin or resharpen bin lol
[18:31:03] <_methods> now doing stuff in the garage i have to use HSS
[18:31:05] <_methods> and it sux
[18:31:10] <XXCoder> your dull bin is heavier than your cnc machine now? ;)
[18:31:19] <_methods> no at work
[18:31:23] <XXCoder> lol
[18:31:28] <_methods> at home i'm stuck with HSS
[18:31:41] <_methods> i haven't resharpened a bit since school lol
[18:34:18] <_methods> heh i think i have a drill point gauge floating around somewhere
[18:35:16] <XXCoder> lol
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[19:17:19] <JT-Shop> I wonder how a blade can just disappear after falling off the rider...
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[19:27:54] <lair82> JT-Shop, if you cut the grass like I do, at a very high rate of fuel consumption, anything is possible.
[19:28:16] <XXCoder> JT-Shop: its probably embedded in your car
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[19:28:46] <lair82> Or the neighbors vinyl siding ;)
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[19:34:48] <JT-Shop> too many trees between me and the neighbors... well not enough really
[19:35:11] <XXCoder> look for freshly fallen tree
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[19:36:31] <JT-Shop> the deck is enclosed with a mulching cover over the discharge
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[19:57:56] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, look for the short to tall patch of grass?
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[20:07:28] <JT-Shop> looks like it fell off right when I started
[20:09:41] <_methods> oops
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[20:13:37] <XXCoder> JT-Shop: ya sure it didnt fall off last time you used it?
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[20:18:42] <Deejay> gn8
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[20:20:46] <JT-Shop> the only thing I'm sure of is it is not there now... been a while since I used it
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[20:39:58] <andypugh> My main PC (Mac) is restoring from a backup after a HD problem
[20:40:21] <andypugh> Which means no CAM or CAD
[20:40:33] <andypugh> And I have a part i want to make
[20:40:42] <malcom2073> Ut oh
[20:40:46] <andypugh> (because I can’t do anything much else)
[20:41:26] <andypugh> Maybe I need to install CamBam on a VM on this laptop
[20:42:00] <cradek> graph paper, calculator, text editor?
[20:42:37] <andypugh> Normally I would, but this is a semi-complicated curve
[20:42:41] <CaptHindsight> heh, I have to rebuild my M$ CAD PC as well. Something got on it even though it's only on sneakernet and the virus checker set to psychotic
[20:42:48] <archivist> inside rear of skull and simulate in linuxcnc till it works
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[20:43:11] <andypugh> But, I guess the graph-paper would pass the time nicely :-)
[20:44:00] <andypugh> In fact, I am being daft. I have an actual part to replicate. I can draw round it :-)
[20:44:31] <cradek> haha
[20:45:16] <andypugh> Two other things before I start:
[20:46:08] <andypugh> A hal component that does all that an encoder does except count would be potentially useful for homing with some systems. (ie, _just_ doing the index-enable)
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[20:47:19] <cradek> at first glance I don't understand that
[20:47:57] <andypugh> And is there a way to send moton commands from Python in Auto mode? (if you try to mdi you get “can't do that (EMC_TASK_PLAN_EXECUTE) in auto mode with the interpreter reading”
[20:48:12] <andypugh> cradek: just latching on index
[20:48:26] <cradek> andypugh: nope
[20:48:34] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/29102-using-an-index-pulse-with-stepgen#57983
[20:48:37] <cradek> in auto mode you open and run a file
[20:49:20] <andypugh> So, any tool change implemetaion that wants to cause axis motion has to run as a remap rather than a HAL component?
[20:49:40] <cradek> yes unless you do nuttier things
[20:49:51] <cradek> remap has got to be the way to go in these modern times
[20:50:25] <andypugh> I was just trying to keep it simple for someone who appears to be easily frightened by code
[20:50:51] <cradek> the basic remap (where you write a gcode subroutine) isn't that hard to set up
[20:51:01] <andypugh> I was looking at a somewhat tweaked hal_manualtoolchange type thing
[20:51:12] <cradek> (but the pythony stuff is way over my head without serious study)
[20:51:34] <andypugh> Yes, but a G-code sub to interpret gray code and wait on pneumatics is likely to get ugly
[20:51:49] <cradek> you'd want to do that part in ladder
[20:52:10] <cradek> use gcode to kick off and then wait for the ladder
[20:52:19] <andypugh> Yeah, so now we are looking at a part-Gcode, part-python, part Ladder implementation.
[20:52:24] <cradek> no python
[20:52:32] <andypugh> And a non-programmer user…
[20:52:55] <andypugh> You probably need the python prolog to pass the T number to G-code
[20:53:11] <cradek> surely that's on an iocontrol pin
[20:53:27] <andypugh> Well, yes, but that’s crazy
[20:53:29] <cradek> wait why does the gcode need it?
[20:53:35] <cradek> what kind of tool change are you trying to do?
[20:53:39] <andypugh> To move the carousel to the right pocket
[20:53:52] <cradek> the ladder does that
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[20:54:02] <cradek> iocontrol hooks to ladder
[20:54:49] <andypugh> The thing is that the user does not know ladder. A rather more important point is that _I_ don’t know ladder :-)
[20:54:55] <cradek> haha
[20:55:36] <andypugh> All-python looks good, it keeps everything in one lplace
[20:55:49] <furrywolf> at least you have a machine that has a toolchanger. stop complaining. :P
[20:55:52] <andypugh> Ladder is userspace, so no loss there
[20:55:59] <cradek> I don't know that part
[20:56:04] <andypugh> No, I don’t actually have a toolchanger
[20:56:05] <cradek> so there are at least two ways...
[20:56:20] <cradek> I do have several, and ladder runs them
[20:57:00] <andypugh> I keep thinking that we should have a generic toolchanger component
[20:57:05] <cradek> my vmc has a resetting presettable quadrature decoder implemented in ladder
[20:57:38] <andypugh> Something that takes a sequence of typical tool-change operations as input, and then runs through them.
[20:58:44] <cradek> I can't even imagine how you'd start to write that
[20:58:56] <andypugh> “Z-100W1Z0” for two Z-moves with a wait for HAL pin 1 between them, as a not-yet-thought out example
[20:58:57] <cradek> have you seen tool changers? they're all different.
[20:59:09] <skunkworks> ladder is realtime...
[20:59:23] <cradek> yes it is
[20:59:44] <andypugh> See, I told you I didn’t know ladder
[21:00:13] <cradek> my hnc turret program wouldn't work if it wasn't realtime
[21:00:40] <cradek> wait for the sensor to see the right position as it spins by, ...
[21:01:22] <andypugh> It would work eventually non-realtime, but you might spin a few times
[21:02:04] <cradek> it might stop in the wrong position - you'd have to detect that failure and try again
[21:02:13] <cradek> ick
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[21:03:09] <CaptHindsight> which Linux apps can view .DWG?
[21:03:10] <andypugh> OK, so, I will make parts rather than try to solve someone-else’s toolchanger implementation
[21:03:25] <cradek> that's the spirit
[21:03:48] <cradek> CaptHindsight: you should be using dxf unless you're transferring from autocad to autocad
[21:03:59] <skunkworks> I did everything in ladder except the spindle control.
[21:04:17] <CaptHindsight> cradek: don't have a choice if someone gives me a DWG
[21:04:44] <cradek> sure you do - send it back or ask them to buy you an autocad license
[21:05:24] <CaptHindsight> I can open and modify them with my CAD apps in M$
[21:05:26] <andypugh> CaptHindsight:
http://www.autodesk.com/products/dwg/viewers
[21:05:31] <cradek> dxf is an open interchange standard
[21:05:57] <CaptHindsight> just wondering if any Linux apps can view DWG
[21:06:01] <andypugh> cradek: You sound like someone who has never tried to use dxf :-)
[21:06:04] <Flipp_> anyone have any suggestions where I could source low-profile, high-torque-at-lower-RPM brushless DC motors?
[21:06:21] <cradek> andypugh: wellll
[21:06:27] <andypugh> Flipp_: Yaskawa Mega Torque?
[21:06:27] <CaptHindsight> I already have Inventor, NX, SW, Creo etc
[21:07:17] <CaptHindsight> hmm Qcad supposedly does but no longer launches for me
[21:07:21] <cradek> AutoCAD 360: Our free* app lets you view, create, edit, and share CAD drawings using a web browser or mobile device.**
[21:07:26] <andypugh> Flipp_: Ah, actually, NSK not Yaskawa
[21:07:29] <skunkworks> spindle control was a comp... So realtime. :)
[21:07:34] <cradek> their free* app has a lot** of footnotes***
[21:08:04] <skunkworks> (gearshift, lock, otherthings I cannot remember..)
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[21:08:40] <andypugh> Flipp_:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NSK-Megatorque-MOTOR-MODEL-TYPE-YS2005GN001-/191559616009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c99d7c609 (many more on there)
[21:08:49] <furrywolf> god I hate my ISP.
[21:08:51] <Flipp_> andypugh: awesome, thanks
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[21:09:54] <andypugh> cradek: AutoDesk apps can create DXF files that can’t be opened by other Autodesk packages
[21:10:05] <furrywolf> I was downloading a large file from my webhosting. it got interrupted. wget retried. their transparent proxy decided to return their homepage instead, with all the headers wget was expecting to be the rest of my file... so wget stuck their homepage in the middle of the file.
[21:10:35] <cradek> furrywolf: if you happen to control both ends, check out zsync
[21:11:00] <cradek> furrywolf: it would actually fix and finish getting your file
[21:11:20] <XXCoder> furrywolf: maybe get tor browser
[21:11:30] <XXCoder> its nice way to bypass stupid proxies
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[21:11:38] <furrywolf> I head -c -10000'd the file and resumed. will compare md5s when done. (will be a while before done)
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[21:13:24] <furrywolf> I route my web browsing through ssh's socks proxy function, because their tampering with http connections makes the web mostly unusable.
[21:13:32] <furrywolf> I didn't bother proxying wget... I should have.
[21:13:38] <XXCoder> ahh
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[21:13:58] <XXCoder> wonder if they perform MITM attack on https too
[21:14:11] * furrywolf hopes the new net neutrality laws will include some bit about how data streams must be passed UNALTERED.
[21:14:19] <cradek> haha
[21:14:22] <XXCoder> wheres the like button lol
[21:14:58] <furrywolf> I don't know how they could. https is designed to prevent such things. they'd need to have access to the root certificates or something...
[21:15:30] <furrywolf> or at least cooperation from someone with them
[21:16:20] <andypugh> cradek: I just noticed that CL has Grafcet. I should try that, given that my day-job is working with 10,000 page Simulink diagrams.
[21:16:30] <XXCoder> fur youre right
[21:18:00] <furrywolf> they do, however, tamper with regular http quite a bit... anything resembling an image gets recompressed, video gets fucked with in some way I haven't quite determined, and anything that even slightly looks like html gets their javascript stuck in it.
[21:18:29] <XXCoder> sounds like some kind of javascript whitelist would help
[21:18:33] <XXCoder> or blacklist
[21:18:33] <furrywolf> and for non-http, dns gets intercepted and fucked with, and anything that looks like it might be a bittorrent tracker connection, even on udp, gets deopped.
[21:18:40] <XXCoder> just block isp javascript
[21:18:54] <cradek> furrywolf: wow. only choice in your area?
[21:18:56] <furrywolf> it's inserted inline in the html
[21:19:00] <XXCoder> unless it appears to be from ahh yea
[21:19:08] <XXCoder> that makes it hard. unless its all same script
[21:19:14] <furrywolf> my solution is, as I said, to proxy all my browsing over ssh to my linode. heh.
[21:19:14] <XXCoder> rhen greasemonkey can kill it
[21:19:45] <furrywolf> I should set up a proper tunnel, so all programs of all kind go through it, not just those I've set with the socks proxy.
[21:20:49] <XXCoder> man that kinda stuff makes even comcast sound good
[21:20:52] <furrywolf> (the kind that shows up as an interface and I set my default route to it, with applications unawares)
[21:21:30] <furrywolf> my file is downloading now at an awesome 6.2K/sec.
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[21:23:23] <furrywolf> is there a "tunneling for dummies" page?
[21:24:48] <furrywolf> I downloaded the file to my linode at 23MB/sec (megabytes, not bits). I wish I could download files like that at home. :)
[21:25:25] <XXCoder> fast.
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[21:25:37] <XXCoder> what about carnet?
[21:25:49] <furrywolf> ?
[21:26:01] <XXCoder> drive there with portable hd heh
[21:26:05] <furrywolf> lol
[21:26:12] <XXCoder> newer version of sneakernet
[21:26:15] <furrywolf> sneakernet
[21:26:39] <furrywolf> I don't know where archive.org is, and it's probably a bit of a drive to pick up a mp3. :P
[21:26:50] <XXCoder> lol true
[21:27:13] <malcom2073> Nah you download to a server, and drive ther
[21:27:14] <malcom2073> there
[21:27:35] <furrywolf> I'm downloading
https://archive.org/details/DNALOUNGE-2015-03-27 to see if any of the bands are any good
[21:28:12] <furrywolf> got all 412MB in 19 seconds to my linode. now to get it here much, much slower.
[21:28:26] <XXCoder> 7 hours of audio
[21:29:03] <furrywolf> which will take much more than 7 hours for me to get! I started last evening.
[21:29:49] <XXCoder> fun. 0.1:1 ratio lol
[21:29:54] <XXCoder> well laters
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[21:39:29] <furrywolf> YAY! md5s match.
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[21:43:36] <_methods> is it wrong to want to knurl everything
[21:45:39] <furrywolf> when all you have is a knurling tool, ...
[21:46:30] <_methods> even if i had other tools
[21:46:47] <_methods> i think i have a knurling problem
[21:47:52] <roycroft> i enjoy knurling
[21:48:05] <roycroft> and i enjoy working with parts that are knurled, if it's appropriate to do so
[21:48:10] <_methods> yeah
[21:48:13] <_methods> i don't get it
[21:48:19] <roycroft> i don't feel compelled to knurl everything in sight though
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[21:48:36] <_methods> hahah
[21:48:42] <_methods> you don't just grab random stuff to knurl
[21:49:38] <roycroft> one of the first projects i made in machining class was a centerpunch
[21:49:42] <roycroft> which is a pretty standard project
[21:49:54] <_methods> yeah
[21:49:58] <roycroft> i knurled it and hardened the tip
[21:50:04] <_methods> first thing we had to make was a drill gage
[21:50:10] <roycroft> the knurling looked every bit as good as on a starrett punch
[21:50:11] <_methods> with a file and hacksaw
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[21:50:22] <roycroft> yes, the drill gage is usually the first project
[21:50:43] <_methods> i think center punch was after that
[21:50:55] <roycroft> and you get to manipulate the table on a bridgeport to finish the drill gage, but you don't get to turn the mill on
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[21:51:11] <_methods> yeah i was a little dismayed lol
[21:51:19] <_methods> i kinda thought i would get to run some fun machines
[21:51:21] <roycroft> my second project was just a bunch of single point threads on the lathe
[21:51:28] <_methods> and all i get is a file and hacksaw lol
[21:51:30] <roycroft> i think the center punch came after that
[21:51:35] <_methods> oh yeah
[21:51:38] <_methods> the thread thing
[21:51:42] <_methods> yeah i remember that
[21:52:00] <_methods> had to do the same thing
[21:52:09] <_methods> turn down all those steps and thread
[21:52:16] <roycroft> anyway, i learned how to knurl with that project and it really did come out brilliantly
[21:52:25] <roycroft> and i've really had no problem knurling ever since
[21:52:53] <_methods> yeah i just feed in and stop
[21:52:55] <_methods> check knurl
[21:53:02] <roycroft> i've always used the knurling tools with the opposing rollers that you pinch down on the work
[21:53:02] <_methods> if good move on
[21:53:09] <roycroft> not the kind that you push into the work from one side
[21:53:09] <_methods> if bad keep applyin pressure
[21:53:09] <furrywolf> one of these days I'll have enough working tools I can knurl things.
[21:53:14] <roycroft> the latter is very hard on the lathe
[21:53:33] <_methods> yeah i have one of those crappy side load knurlers
[21:53:51] <roycroft> then i question why you want to knurl everything with it
[21:54:01] <_methods> hahah
[21:54:02] <roycroft> it's more difficult to use and a *lot* harder on the machine
[21:54:08] <_methods> i can't help myself
[21:54:18] <roycroft> go buy a pincher type and have a knurlgasm
[21:54:36] <_methods> yeah i need to
[21:54:45] <_methods> but i gotta update my aircompressor first
[21:54:48] <_methods> then bandsaw
[21:54:51] <_methods> then tig welder
[21:55:01] <roycroft> i'm done dealing with my compressor issues
[21:55:06] <roycroft> have been for about 4 years now
[21:55:17] <roycroft> problem 1: replace valves on cheap chinese compressor pump
[21:55:34] <_methods> how'd you fix your compressor woes?
[21:55:39] <furrywolf> I've spent way too much work on my compressor.
[21:55:41] <roycroft> problem 2: cheap chinese motor burned out - replaced with a good leeson
[21:55:41] <Rab> If traction is required, knurl, else engine turn.
[21:56:00] <Rab> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f9/26968d1286666199-jeweling-engine-turning-how-do-pa080135.jpg
[21:56:01] <roycroft> problem 3: cheap chinese compressor pump blew a head gasket
[21:56:12] <roycroft> replaced cheap chinese compressor pump with good american-made pump
[21:56:15] <roycroft> no mor problems
[21:56:17] <roycroft> more
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[21:56:37] <Rab> roycroft, until your tank ruptures.
[21:56:54] <roycroft> my tank is outside my shop
[21:57:03] <roycroft> which will not prevent its failure
[21:57:08] <furrywolf> I have an old sears compressor... first the motor burned out. I took it apart, and found out the pump was stiff as fuck, which is likely what killed the motor. took the pump apart, found out it had sucked in a valve at some point, and someone had fixed it... poorly.
[21:57:15] <roycroft> but would ameliorate any damage caused by said failure
[21:58:39] <furrywolf> the screw that held the valve had hammered the upper ring groove down, pinching the ring, causing the ring to stick and the pump to bind. pried out the ring, filed the groove back to size, re-honed the cylinder, finally had a working pump... and still a bad motor. put on a 1.5hp motor from a jacuzzi blower in place of the 2hp one it was supposed to have, because that's what I had on hand...
[21:58:42] <furrywolf> it works much of the time!
[21:58:59] <MrFluffy> Hi all, question, 800x600 resolution, are there any touchscreen gui that can work at this resolution. gmoccapy is bigger than the screen & as per the wiki suggestion not useable in default trim, or can I customise it to fit the smaller display relatively easily?
[21:59:29] <roycroft> is your touch screen 50 years old?
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[21:59:30] <MrFluffy> I have a pump off a garage forecourt on my compressor at the moment after a big explosion and seperation of conrod incident on the original...
[21:59:34] <roycroft> or is it the size of a postage stamp?
[21:59:38] <furrywolf> it has plumber's tape as a structual component. :)
[21:59:41] <MrFluffy> no its a ELO 12 inch
[21:59:45] <JT-Shop> crap now I have to update my 7i76 firmware
[22:00:09] <roycroft> my compressor was once a husky, from home depot
[22:01:00] <MrFluffy> the main danger with dodgy old compressors is the tank rupturing, but from the comments as I walked in someone has already presented that
[22:01:12] <MrFluffy> you can hydro test if you have another and some water :)
[22:01:16] <furrywolf> bah. too many of these bands are playing covers rather than original music.
[22:02:50] <furrywolf> oh, I almost forgot! the motor I put on turned the wrong way, and wasn't reversible... so I dug into the windings until I separated both ends of the start winding and reversed it.
[22:03:06] <MrFluffy> more precisely roycroft its a ELO 1224L 12", from 1996, and its the biggest screen I could jam in the cabinet physically as its in the old controls cab of a bridgeport interact series1
[22:03:30] <roycroft> i think i might have had that same touch screen display
[22:03:42] <roycroft> i did some work developing touch screen kiosks back in the '90s
[22:04:06] <MrFluffy> yeah possibly, its working as a touch screen, just short on screen real estate
[22:04:35] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/compressor8/p1010001.jpg mid-project. :)
[22:04:59] <MrFluffy> I was wondering if gmoccapy and touchy had the 960 limit but with some tweakery they could be shrank a bit more
[22:05:05] <roycroft> you can find lcd touchscreen 1024x768 or larger displays really cheap on the aftermarket, pulled from other equipment
[22:05:12] <roycroft> i'm talking $50 or less
[22:05:17] <roycroft> more real estate
[22:05:21] <roycroft> less bulky
[22:05:25] <roycroft> and much lower power consumption
[22:05:39] <roycroft> that does not answer your question, i know
[22:05:45] <MrFluffy> since Im in france, probably the shipping would be more than $50 Im afraid.
[22:05:58] <MrFluffy> This one came from the USA as it was
[22:06:05] <roycroft> but i suspect that even if you find a way to run linuxcnc on an 800x600 display you'll be unhappy with it
[22:06:17] * roycroft does not know for dumpster diving in france
[22:06:19] <MrFluffy> I can use axis with it, but the icons are a bit small to hit accurately
[22:06:39] <roycroft> a stylus might help with that
[22:06:44] <MrFluffy> jog etc are all wired to the joysticks anyway
[22:07:17] <MrFluffy> with the original sticks wired up to a old keyboard innards inside
[22:08:42] <MrFluffy> just wondering if to spend some time learning how to configure gmoccapy with some tweaks in configs shrinking areas or if it would involve digging round the code and butchering it inside
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[22:10:37] <MrFluffy> touchy doesnt appear to allow keyboard/touchscreen in parallel like gmoccapy...
[22:11:38] <furrywolf> how do you set firefox's audio output device?
[22:12:10] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lq_0Fxil2w needs to be on my big speakers, not my tinny laptop speakers
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[22:25:53] <furrywolf> I'm not a big dance music fan, but this band seems to have several good songs
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[22:32:22] <MrFluffy> butchery it is then, property name="width_request">979</property
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[22:42:27] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, it doesn't give me an option to boot in safe mode
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[22:47:45] <Tom_itx> i'd run the install cd to fix the os for any problems first i think
[22:47:52] <JT-Shop> I'm wishing I had an automagic nightly backup
[22:47:58] <JT-Shop> doing that now
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[22:48:15] <Tom_itx> i have a whole slew of hdd for backups for just this reason
[22:48:31] <Tom_itx> at least i won't lose too much that way
[22:48:35] <_methods> rsync baby
[22:49:05] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what win flavor?
[22:49:13] <JT-Shop> 7
[22:49:14] <_methods> oh windows
[22:49:19] <_methods> nm on the rsync lol
[22:49:33] <Tom_itx> i'm not quite fond of 7 yet
[22:49:41] <JT-Shop> I need something to back up all my computers to one central computer
[22:49:44] <Tom_itx> still run xp pro on several
[22:49:56] <malcom2073> rsync works great in windows
[22:50:03] <malcom2073> I use it for backing up all my windows PC's, have it scheduled to run once a day
[22:50:03] <_methods> yeah backuppc is kinda nice too
[22:50:10] <JT-Shop> yea, I have XP down in the beer cave
[22:50:22] <Tom_itx> have you ever had to recover using rsync?
[22:50:25] <Tom_itx> can you ?
[22:50:28] <Tom_itx> i don't know about it
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[22:50:40] <malcom2073> Recovery depends on how and what you're backing up
[22:50:47] <malcom2073> rsync just makes copies of files
[22:50:47] <Tom_itx> i want to be able to recover from anything
[22:50:57] <JT-Shop> all I care about backing up is my data files
[22:51:04] <Tom_itx> i ghost my drives to spares
[22:51:19] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, worst case you can put it into a linux box and copy all the files
[22:51:23] <Tom_itx> i did that recently
[22:51:39] <JT-Shop> yea, I have a new drive handy
[22:51:44] <Tom_itx> one + for linux :D
[22:51:58] <JT-Shop> 2 TB
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[22:52:59] <JT-Shop> it goes to startup repair and says come back in an hour
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[22:56:24] <JT-Shop> PCW, store.mesanet.com gives me an untrusted warning
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[22:58:54] <Tom_itx> not sure i trust him either :D
[22:59:04] <malcom2073> JT-Shop: Sounds like your problem if you don't trust him :P
[22:59:47] <JT-Shop> lol
[23:00:24] <Tom_itx> these asrock boards don't like to install from a USB drive
[23:00:26] <JT-Shop> that was from a google search, when I got mesanet.com then click on the link for store.mesanet.com I don't get the warning
[23:00:46] <Tom_itx> google must be meddling
[23:02:37] <malcom2073> And they would've gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids!
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[23:16:17] <MrFluffy> good night all, or rather good morning. I shall continue my nasty gui fudgery tomorrow.
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[23:18:29] <furrywolf> interesting. the plastic the forks that come in the salad bowls I buy is incredibly good at repelling glue. I used one to mix jbweld, and it simply FELL OFF after it dried. cleanly. didn't need to pick it, it just fell off.
[23:19:22] <JT-Shop> wow I have 50 GB of stuff in Documents
[23:19:44] <furrywolf> music, movies, porn, ?
[23:20:32] <JT-Shop> CAD files mostly
[23:20:48] * furrywolf has about 100GB of music, 5GB of movies, and 0B of porn.
[23:20:57] <JT-Shop> looks like I have 199GB free on my USB drive
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[23:25:29] <renesis> furrywolf: yeah streaming webporn is pretty neat
[23:25:47] <renesis> its like were living in the future
[23:26:33] <furrywolf> lol
[23:26:36] * furrywolf doesn't like porn
[23:26:53] <renesis> you have issues, everyone likes porn
[23:26:55] <JT-Shop> crap I have to move the W3 jumper and don't feel like it
[23:27:03] <renesis> you just havent found the right porn
[23:27:06] <renesis> you need to keep trying
[23:27:11] <furrywolf> ... no, not everyone likes porn.
[23:27:34] <renesis> weve been over this. youre wrong, i decided
[23:27:53] <furrywolf> lol
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[23:39:27] <furrywolf> scanning through this 7hr mp3, there's some good bands, plenty of so-so, and a few fucking awful. about typical for a large show. lol
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