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[01:13:38] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/NEyuXeT.png
[01:13:44] <zeeshan> fancy smancy bracket
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[01:20:58] <bobo_> zeeshan: just here to bother you
[01:21:36] <zeeshan> lol
[01:22:04] <zeeshan> 16ksi stress
[01:22:06] <bobo_> where are the photos of your new machine feets ?
[01:22:06] <zeeshan> yield strength 40 ksi
[01:22:08] <zeeshan> hmmm
[01:22:17] <zeeshan> bobo they are just rtound cylinders
[01:22:19] <zeeshan> with a taper :P
[01:22:27] <zeeshan> w/ a hemisphere to swivel
[01:22:54] <bobo_> I can't see them?
[01:22:59] <zeeshan> lol
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[01:26:15] <bobo_> hyd clutch -- my 06 (2006) chev truck has plastic hyd. cylinder on firewall for hyd clutch
[01:27:30] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/H3DfaFc.jpg ;
http://i.imgur.com/OLycM8z.jpg
[01:29:02] <bobo_> as usual GM mucked the design up. clutch petal has to be mashing floor bd. to shift .
[01:29:08] <zeeshan> lol
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[01:32:25] <bobo_> those mounting feet ----- gee you do nice work , they look good . deserive a silver at-boy star for them
[01:32:55] <bobo_> thanks for the photo
[01:33:56] <zeeshan> np
[01:34:00] <zeeshan> i was happy to level the machine
[01:34:06] <zeeshan> it deserved leveling
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[01:34:28] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/TP6JYf9.png
[01:34:35] <zeeshan> this is structurally sound
[01:34:44] <zeeshan> but i feel like aesthetically i went a little overkill with the slots
[01:34:45] <zeeshan> lol
[01:34:59] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, here's jt's feet:
http://gnipsel.com/shop/machines/machines-01.xhtml
[01:35:13] <zeeshan> ROFL
[01:35:15] <zeeshan> those are nice!
[01:35:25] <zeeshan> i love jt's structural member work
[01:35:35] <zeeshan> he does some excellent work
[01:35:44] <Tom_itx> yup
[01:37:10] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/cWXx2JQ.jpg
[01:37:12] <zeeshan> thats my response image
[01:37:13] <zeeshan> :D
[01:37:19] <zeeshan> too bad its not structural
[01:38:47] <Tom_itx> did you bend em?
[01:39:27] <zeeshan> no
[01:39:30] <zeeshan> mandrel bends come like that
[01:39:33] <zeeshan> you just cut and fit them
[01:41:50] <bobo_> saw you have the parts for Microns hyd tool grip cylinder------ finaly Were the parts still warn from manufacturing ?
[01:42:40] <zeeshan> more like the smell of sitting around for 20 years :d
[01:45:01] <bobo_> good thing they are not prime source for heart/lung machines
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[01:50:16] <bobo_> the hyd clutch frame-structural member ---- mayby rolled ribs . I am not sure ,but wouldn't it be only in tension ---- mounted at front ?
[01:53:06] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Usj3kc0.png
[01:53:10] <zeeshan> you can kinda see whats going on there
[01:53:14] <zeeshan> where the clutch master bolts
[01:53:20] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/TP6JYf9.png
[01:53:30] <zeeshan> that gets pushed towards the firewall
[01:53:34] <zeeshan> where the clutch pedal pivots
[01:53:41] <zeeshan> sees force in the opposing direction
[01:56:17] <malcom2073> I'm gonna make a small air powered rocker engine for my first real lathe project
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[01:59:20] <bobo_> zeeshan my guess is the front and also mounting is the plate having 2 horz slots . if so then it's mostly a tension force ?
[01:59:58] * zeeshan is confused on what youre asking :P
[02:00:50] <bobo_> your wanting to make it stronger ?
[02:00:55] <zeeshan> no
[02:00:59] <zeeshan> trying to make it looks better
[02:01:00] <zeeshan> :)
[02:01:30] <bobo_> nickel plate it than
[02:01:30] <zeeshan> apparently thing this weighs 2lb
[02:01:34] <zeeshan> i think thats acceptable
[02:01:40] <zeeshan> haha
[02:01:42] <zeeshan> its aluminum
[02:01:48] <zeeshan> anodize it!
[02:01:49] <zeeshan> :D
[02:05:13] <bobo_> my 1/2 ton truck uses a all plastic frame for that , and they cheaped out by also leaving off a petal return spring
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[02:08:17] <zeeshan> well some cars
[02:08:25] <zeeshan> return spring is in the clutch maser
[02:10:20] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/LlnWkEU.png
[02:10:21] <zeeshan> there we go
[02:10:22] <zeeshan> lol
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[02:14:44] <bobo_> I am talking GM practice , you are talking give a concern manfactures
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[02:50:34] <malcom2073> Hmm, there are lots people on youtube running larger steam engines, but where are they getting their steam from?
[02:50:45] <malcom2073> I mean, are they really making thier own boilers?
[02:50:46] <malcom2073> That sound scary
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[02:54:38] <roycroft> they start arguments on irc and bottle the steam coming off the channel
[02:55:12] <malcom2073> oooohhhhh
[02:55:14] <malcom2073> that's smart!
[02:55:17] <roycroft> yeah
[02:55:20] <malcom2073> let's see.....
[02:55:22] <malcom2073> 3d printers!
[02:55:25] * malcom2073 opens valve
[02:55:27] <t12> zero point irc energy
[02:55:28] <roycroft> you have to get a special computer with a steam jack though
[02:55:50] <malcom2073> I have steam installed, does that count?
[02:55:51] <roycroft> emacs is better than vi
[02:56:04] <malcom2073> Ubuntu rocks, Fedora sucks
[02:56:10] <roycroft> bsd is better than linux
[02:56:20] <malcom2073> Mac > both
[02:59:17] <roycroft> pwd
[02:59:24] <roycroft> ack
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[03:14:33] <zeeshan> malcom2073: boilers are dangerous only if you dont know wha tyoure doing! :P
[03:14:41] <zeeshan> to test your steam engine, juse use compressed air
[03:14:47] <zeeshan> and then spend a long time designing a boiler or buying one
[03:17:25] <zeeshan> two main equations: hoop stress = Pr/t , longitudal stress = Pr/2t <- for cylindrical designs, after you find the stresses, find the equivalent stress and compare to material yield. then fea it up to double check and account for stress concentrations
[03:17:51] <zeeshan> this also assumes thin wall
[03:18:23] <zeeshan> D/t < 10 i think -- been a while :P
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[05:29:11] <XXCoder> zeeshan: fgured what to use for test run?
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[09:07:08] <RyanS> What's the point of 2, 4 edge surface plates? weight reduction ?
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[10:10:01] <archivist> show a url showing them
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[12:02:18] <RyanS> work clamping! odd
http://www.precisiongraniteusa.com/Products.aspx
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[12:17:29] <_methods> heh i never knew that's what those ledges were for
[12:19:02] <archivist> I use gravity or clamps on v blocks
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[12:46:41] <_methods> that's all i've ever used to this point too lol
[12:47:06] <_methods> well we have a surface plate with threaded inserts in it
[12:47:18] <_methods> for getting creative if required
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[13:51:12] <newtolinuxcnc> hi, I need some help with conversion from 240V to 110V
[13:51:56] <malcom2073> 240 center tap, or european?
[13:52:30] <newtolinuxcnc> I have a contactor that say AC-15, UeV 240 UeA 4, UeV 400 UeA 3
[13:53:06] <newtolinuxcnc> so what will be the UeV and the UeV for 110V
[13:53:23] <newtolinuxcnc> UeA*
[13:54:50] <malcom2073> Thoes are probably max ratings? In which case the amps is the same, dont exceed 4 amps.
[13:55:27] <malcom2073> They derate at higher voltages for reasons, but youre pretty safe staying under 4a at lower voltages.
[13:56:29] <newtolinuxcnc> there is a way to calculate it?
[13:57:01] <malcom2073> The derating? You read the mfg spec sheet.
[14:08:43] <archivist> for the same power you will be using more current at a lower voltage, insufficient data so far
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[15:20:28] <newtolinuxcnc> there is an error output in Linux cnc?
[15:21:04] <newtolinuxcnc> something that i can connect to "error indicator"
[15:21:43] <pcw_home> man motion
[15:21:43] <pcw_home> man iocontrol
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[15:28:50] <newtolinuxcnc> I'm not in front of the Linux cnc, I am working on the electrical control box.
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[16:28:28] <Pudlo> Not really a linuxCNC question but I'm not sure where else to ask… Is driving a hobby CNC router/mill/whatever with 1/2in single start ACME threaded rod (0.1in pitch) a bad idea?
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[16:29:34] <cradek> there are different qualities (roughnesses) of acme thread. some are made to be leadscrews
[16:29:59] <cradek> if you combine that with an antibacklash nut (usually delrin) the results can be fine for a machine with low cutting forces
[16:30:41] <cradek> so the answer is "it depends"
[16:32:16] <archivist> and depends if you conventionally cut, rather than climb cut
[16:32:41] <Pudlo> Okay. I was looking at high-precision acme rod from mcmaster, and delrin AB nuts from some no-name on ebay
[16:32:43] <cradek> with cnc you usually blindly do a mishmash of both :-/
[16:33:35] <Pudlo> oops - should have clarified. For all three axis - I'd like to do a bunch of aluminum/harder woods, so I figured I'd move up a notch from belts.
[16:33:36] <Rab> Pudlo, consider that single-start will be about 8tpi, so movement may be fairly slow depending on your stepper and drivetrain.
[16:34:13] <cradek> what size of tools do you hope to use?
[16:34:18] <Pudlo> Rab: yeah, that's what I'm worried about. multi-start rods look pricy though.
[16:34:42] <Rab> Pudlo, indeed, but you can also check eBay.
[16:35:15] <Pudlo> cradek: still working that out I'm afraid. I don't have a huge budget to blow, so probably a hand router. Maybe upgrading to a chinese spindle later.
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[16:36:52] <cradek> I would be surprised to hear you could successfully cut aluminum with a hand wood router
[16:36:52] <Pudlo> Any recommendations there?
[16:37:01] <cradek> (with pretty much any size/shape of tool)
[16:37:08] <cradek> but I have been wrong before
[16:37:10] <Rab> Pudlo, you can also tap your own delrin nuts for practically free. I have a few pics here:
http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/#acmetap
[16:37:21] <Rab> That's all the eBay sellers are doing.
[16:39:13] <cradek> for antibacklash provision you'll have to do a bit more engineering after that, but yeah you could sure make them
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[16:40:39] <Pudlo> cradek: I've seen people cut aluminum on lighter machines than what I'm planning - just with very small DOCs.
[16:41:16] <Pudlo> cradek: stupid question - what's preferable? 1HP bosch colt hand router or cheap 400-600W chinese spindle?
[16:41:39] <Pudlo> Rab: Oh neat - I was going to go for real AB nuts, but I'll keep that in mind.
[16:41:44] <Rab> Pudlo, routers are great for wood but typically too fast for Al. You should be considering a variable-speed spindle.
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[16:42:04] <lair82> pcw_home you around?
[16:42:17] <Pudlo> Rab: OH RIGHT. Non-variable speed. Yeah, that was stupid of me. Thanks.
[16:42:44] <Pudlo> Rab: So a cheapo Chinese spindle with a speed controller is what I'll be looking for then.
[16:42:59] <Rab> Pudlo, not stupid, but proper speed and feed become critical in metal, and spindle speed is part of that equation.
[16:43:50] <Pudlo> Gotcha.
[16:44:19] <Rab> Pudlo, the cheap ones seem underpowered to me. Cromaglious just bought one of those (300-400W?) spindles, you might ask his opinion.
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[16:46:19] <mozmck> You can get a variable speed router too. We have used a makita 1100rf a *lot* for routing aluminum plate - works great
[16:47:09] <Rab> DeWalt DWP611/DNP611 is a very popular variable speed router.
[16:47:11] <mozmck> We are mostly using 1/8" bits
[16:47:44] <Rab> mozmck, does Makita offer a 1/8" collet, or did you have to go aftermarket?
[16:47:49] <mozmck> Yes, there are different ones. One big advantage of the makita is that it is very quiet.
[16:48:06] <mozmck> Aftermarket inserts.
[16:48:15] <Rab> ahh
[16:48:37] <mozmck> I can't remember where I got mine, but there are different places to get them.
[16:49:19] <Pudlo> is the makita 1101 more or less the same as the makita 1100?
[16:49:23] <mozmck> Actually, I think we are using an ER collet in one of them.
[16:50:02] <mozmck> Pudlo: Hmm, I don't know, I might have the number wrong too - I'm not near a machine right now.
[16:50:11] <Rab> I was leaning toward a DWP611, but realized I'd need an aftermarket collet which was going to bump the total price up to ~$150.
[16:51:38] <Rab> Also, AFAIK the varispeed routers aren't running closed loop, so it seems possible to bog down under load...particularly at smaller fractions of design output, like >10K RPM.
[16:52:45] <renesis> <10k?
[16:52:51] <Rab> oop yeah
[16:53:35] <Pudlo> Hm. What about a router with ESC like this?
http://www.amazon.ca/Hitachi-M12VC-4-Horsepower-Variable-Speed-Router/dp/B0002ZZWXI/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1428943879&sr=1-1&keywords=Variable+Speed+Router
[16:54:45] <Rab> Pudlo, that is a beast, but same concerns apply: finding the right collet size(s) for your tooling, and ability to maintain speed in the range you need.
[16:57:06] <Rab> Also, it's not light--3.3 Kg (prob somewhat less w/o handle). Your machine axes need to be up to the task of hauling that around.
[16:57:23] <renesis> daaamn
[16:57:25] <Pudlo> In theory that one runs closed loop (I think), but you're right about the collets and weight. Back to gooogle it is haha
[16:59:41] <Rab> Pudlo, I can tell you that I went through your same quest, and wound up making my own spindle from an RC helicopter motor:
http://reboots.g-cipher.net/spindle/
[17:01:16] <Rab> But it was labor-intensive, and maybe a false economy. I think the chinese 800W spindles are probably the price/performance sweet spot.
[17:01:30] <renesis> i dig the tight fit fan shroud
[17:02:05] <Rab> Thanx g, got lucky with random extrusion.
[17:02:59] <renesis> looks meticulously planned, voodoos must like you that day
[17:05:12] <renesis> rab: is the timing belt pullet tapered to keep the timing belt from sliding or thats just some camera thing?
[17:05:35] <Rab> renesis, camera angle.
[17:05:43] <Pudlo> Rab: hmm. okay, i'll keep that in mind.
[17:05:57] <zeeshan> you can cut aluminum at 2309123092318 rpm
[17:05:58] <renesis> huh, weird
[17:06:05] <zeeshan> as long as you run a small cutter :)
[17:07:02] <renesis> and feed at 24765ipm
[17:07:12] <Rab> zeeshan, my pile of broken micro endmills suggests very light passes.
[17:07:44] <zeeshan> rab see renesis's comment
[17:07:44] <zeeshan> :)
[17:07:50] <renesis> all that wasted flute
[17:08:00] <zeeshan> say youre running 20000 rpm, you gotta feed at like 40 ipm
[17:08:07] <renesis> i keep tooth load around .0005
[17:08:12] <zeeshan> to maintain a chipload of .001 w/ a 2 flute
[17:08:24] <zeeshan> if you feed to slow, you're just rubbing the cutter
[17:08:30] <zeeshan> and ploughing through the material
[17:08:36] <zeeshan> kaboom cutter
[17:08:53] * zeeshan ends troll
[17:29:07] <archivist> I thought taps would have good pitch control, I was wrong see last two graphs
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/lamp_screw.php
[17:32:33] <FinboySlick> archivist: If you want good pitch... Looks like you're screwed! ;)
[17:32:46] * FinboySlick is such a funny person.
[17:34:05] * archivist shouts back in C
[17:34:05] <archivist> I need a bit of calibration thread
[17:43:07] <ssi> wat
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[17:49:22] <Tom_itx> zeeshan what bearings will work and survive at 2309123092318 rpm?
[17:49:34] <ssi> air bearings :P
[17:50:00] <Tom_itx> under load?
[17:50:05] <FinboySlick> At that speed, I'm not even sure. You might have trouble with the shaft-side disintegrating.
[17:50:13] <malcom2073> how *do* air bearings work under load?
[17:50:23] <malcom2073> Saw a guy who had a lathe, with air bearings on the spindle
[17:51:30] <FinboySlick> malcom2073: Well if your surface is smooth enough, air bearings can hold a fair bit of load.
[17:52:21] <FinboySlick> It's a bit like oil. So long as there is a layer between your surfaces, you're good to go.
[17:54:29] <malcom2073> Interesting
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[17:55:36] <_methods> even more interesting when that layer isnt' there for whatever reason lol
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[17:55:42] <FinboySlick> malcom2073: Ever seen surface plate effects from people who do scraping? When your surface is that smooth, it's pretty difficult for air to actually leave.
[17:55:46] <archivist> air has viscosity too
[17:55:51] <malcom2073> FinboySlick: I was just thinking about that heh
[17:55:58] <malcom2073> how two surface plates seem to "glide" on each other
[17:56:07] <_methods> wringing
[17:56:20] <_methods> gage blocks
[17:57:02] <Pudlo> At that speed wouldn't the edge be moving faster than the speed of sound anyways? It would be the same problem you hit with ultra high-speed props.
[17:57:23] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGRU2fyQ7Uw
[17:57:55] <FinboySlick> Pudlo: At that speed, I'm pretty sure the molecules of whatever your shaft is made of would start flying away ;)
[18:01:14] <archivist> could be .------1" diameter
[18:01:14] <archivist> 000000
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[18:05:17] <zeeshan> magnetic bearings
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[18:05:41] <Pudlo> It's gonna have to be in a vacuum chamber either way
[18:06:19] <archivist> some insane max RPMs have been achieved
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[18:08:02] <zeeshan> after my troll session
[18:08:07] <zeeshan> i decided to troll during my presentation
[18:08:14] <zeeshan> i love it when people ask questions
[18:08:19] <zeeshan> and i just sit there for 30 seconds with no response
[18:08:33] <zeeshan> processing the info in my mind while they're "haha i got him"
[18:08:42] <zeeshan> and BAM and answers come back in fire hell mode
[18:09:10] <archivist> http://www.cnet.com/news/fastest-man-made-spinning-object-clocks-in-at-600m-rpm/
[18:09:17] <zeeshan> archivist: what is this socery you posted earlier
[18:10:20] <archivist> zeeshan, playing with a pitch measuring machine I got off fleabay
[18:10:34] <zeeshan> what is the resolution?
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[18:13:51] <archivist> .02 mm guess in between
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[18:16:08] <archivist> erm .002mm and guess the little bits
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[18:17:58] <archivist> it is a strange thimble design that one is suppose to have multiple of
[18:18:26] <zeeshan> that is pretty precise :)
[18:18:43] <zeeshan> 3"x36"x.5 - $107.26 metal supermarket, $67.10 b&d steel
[18:18:47] <zeeshan> wow what a price difference.
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[18:22:20] <archivist> zeeshan, this explains the machine to an extent
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/NPL_drawings.php
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[18:26:20] <zeeshan> interesting device
[18:31:15] <archivist> waiting for new balls, currently using one of my "standard" balls
[18:32:53] <archivist> far more fun that the equivalent in beer money
[18:34:44] <XXCoder> drunkness lol
[18:36:15] <archivist> I have seen threads that have had too much
[18:36:27] <archivist> not a pretty sight
[18:36:47] <XXCoder> it dont work or what?
[18:37:03] <XXCoder> or do it just "stick" a bit
[18:37:37] <archivist> the worst had no helix at all
[18:37:38] <zeeshan> archivist: alcohol is a waste of money
[18:37:42] <zeeshan> so are recreational drugs
[18:37:53] <zeeshan> i would spend money on tools any given day
[18:37:55] <zeeshan> far more satisfying
[18:37:56] <zeeshan> :-)
[18:38:06] <archivist> zeeshan, cant afford anyway been dry for years
[18:38:26] <zeeshan> good, your liver loves you for it
[18:38:26] <XXCoder> dry for last 39 years here
[18:38:31] <archivist> had a tool famine for toooooo long
[18:38:44] <zeeshan> 5 years for me
[18:39:01] <zeeshan> archivist: same here
[18:39:01] <zeeshan> lol
[18:39:09] <zeeshan> my last purchase was 14 pull studs
[18:39:17] <archivist> I had a free bear (small bottle) last year only
[18:39:18] <zeeshan> but they're not as satisfying as sayyy a precision level!
[18:39:21] <XXCoder> tools. none of us has enough lol
[18:39:32] <zeeshan> XXCoder: i know right!
[18:39:42] <zeeshan> i need these: 10 bxa holders
[18:39:58] <zeeshan> a box level
[18:40:10] <zeeshan> cat40 2x shell mill holders
[18:40:18] <zeeshan> cat40 3/4 em holders (3x)
[18:40:19] <archivist> and a partridge in a pear tree
[18:40:21] <zeeshan> =D
[18:40:30] <zeeshan> pear tree is planted in the back
[18:40:35] <zeeshan> wont be giving fruit for another 2 years
[18:40:53] <zeeshan> we got 2 apple trees, pear stree and orange
[18:41:11] <archivist> I have weeds
[18:42:30] <XXCoder> apple tree here but it dont give good apples, just crab apple
[18:49:37] <roycroft> crab apples make good cider
[18:49:50] <XXCoder> I bet but none of us know how
[18:50:44] <roycroft> um, squeeze apples, put juice in jug, let sit for a few days
[18:51:04] <XXCoder> really?
[18:51:09] <XXCoder> achcol?
[18:51:20] <roycroft> if you want a little better control over it seal it from the atmosphere with a fermentation lock and add some cider yeast
[18:51:27] <roycroft> but it will wild ferment just fine
[18:52:04] <roycroft> good, sweet eating apples make bad tasting cider
[18:52:11] <roycroft> but tart apples make good cide
[18:52:12] <roycroft> r
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[19:14:14] <JT-Shop> crap, I made 16 of the T-slot parts and I needed 18!
[19:14:40] <XXCoder> doh
[19:14:54] <XXCoder> time to setup again
[19:15:41] <JT-Shop> lol yep
[19:17:29] <JT-Shop> won't be as bad, I have all the G code worked out
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[19:23:50] <XXCoder> yea
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[20:30:01] <zeeshan> http://www.ustream.tv/NASAHDTV
[20:30:05] <zeeshan> t-3:30
[20:30:28] <zeeshan> nm
[20:31:33] <zeeshan> damn abort
[20:35:00] <SpeedEvil> sigh
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[20:42:04] <Pudlo> Okay, dumb question - are these a terrible idea or no? It's $45 cheaper than buying a new collet set for a router, but will it add a ton of runout?.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6mm-to-3-175mm-1-8-Engraving-Bit-CNC-Router-Tool-Adapter-for-6mm-Collet-/181536622212?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a446d0684
[20:43:23] <Pudlo> Also, where do you folks buy your endmills from?
[20:44:13] <Connor> I wouldn't use them. Too much chance for run-out if they're not VERY well made.
[20:45:24] <Pudlo> Dang. I figured as much, but thought I'd ask. Any spindle recommendations then?
[20:46:14] <Connor> Pudlo: Just my Opinion. They look cheap enough you could give them a try.. but depending on the bit, could risk breaking it..
[20:47:08] <jdh> connor: how's the house?
[20:47:19] <Connor> Waiting on Counter Tops.
[20:47:25] <Connor> Other than that.. livable.
[20:50:18] <jdh> are you back in?
[20:51:36] <roycroft> i usually buy my endmills from enco
[20:52:13] <cpresser> Pudlo: you should tell us which region you are from. international shipping is expensive
[20:52:44] <Pudlo> Oh yeah. Canada!
[20:52:49] <Pudlo> Thanks,
[20:54:20] <roycroft> us made end mills from enco should pass to canada with no duty, but i'm not sure about asian ones
[20:54:40] <roycroft> i know my friends in vancouver complain about how expensive tooling is in canada
[20:55:42] <jdh> asian ones tend to suck
[20:56:09] <XXCoder> roycroft: aliexpress?
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[20:56:26] <roycroft> i'm not sure i would buy tooling from aliexpress
[20:56:49] <XXCoder> its definitely good enough for my cnc wood router
[20:56:54] <roycroft> my experience with alibaba is that it's a real crap shoot
[20:56:59] <XXCoder> probably not if need professional quality
[20:57:07] <roycroft> you can have five vendors offering "identical" product at almost the same pricew
[20:57:18] <roycroft> and some of it is utter crap, and some is decent quality
[20:57:25] <roycroft> and you never know what you're going to get
[20:57:31] <zeeshan> youre buying the same stuff from enco
[20:57:35] <zeeshan> for a higher price :-)
[20:57:47] <roycroft> if i'm buying asian-made tooling
[20:58:02] <roycroft> if i'm buying us made tooling it's consistently decent to better quality
[20:58:35] <zeeshan> unfortunately a lot usa branded stuff is made in china
[20:58:36] <roycroft> it's usually worth paying 2x as much for us-made tooling
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[20:58:39] <zeeshan> as well
[20:58:45] <zeeshan> for example glacern tools
[20:58:50] <zeeshan> are mostly taiwanese
[20:59:02] <roycroft> legally if it's claimed in advertising and on the part that it's made in usa it has to be made in usa
[20:59:14] <roycroft> i don't buy tooling from us companies
[20:59:18] <roycroft> i buy tooling that is made in the us
[20:59:21] <roycroft> there's a difference
[20:59:32] <zeeshan> even mari tool
[20:59:35] <zeeshan> sells chinese tool holders
[20:59:40] <roycroft> caveat emptor
[21:00:10] <jdh> enco says import on the cheap stuff
[21:00:15] <roycroft> yes
[21:00:24] <roycroft> and they say "made in usa" on the made in usa stuff
[21:00:27] <zeeshan> to give you an example
[21:00:36] <zeeshan> raw castings come from china, and say the machining is done here
[21:00:38] <zeeshan> it'll say made in usa
[21:00:40] <zeeshan> or canada
[21:00:45] <roycroft> and if i buy something that they say is "made in usa" and it's not that's false advertising and illegal
[21:01:16] <CaptHindsight> I buy Chinese tooling for my Chinese tools in China
[21:01:18] <roycroft> well yes, raw materials can come from offshore
[21:01:30] <roycroft> that's something you learn about
[21:01:52] <roycroft> if it's important to you to use high quality tooling you find manufacturers you can trust
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[21:02:03] <XXCoder> whats best tooling type for wood?
[21:02:07] <roycroft> if you can't trust any of them but you need the quality then it's time to be in a different business
[21:02:09] <XXCoder> carbodite>?
[21:02:25] <Connor> jdh Yea.. been back in for 2 months now.. just no kitchen sink or cooktop.
[21:02:26] <XXCoder> cobolt?
[21:02:39] <SpeedEvil> I was highly amused when a senator in a congressional hearing started bitching about where SpaceX got their aluminium from - when claiming that their rockets were really not 'made in USA'
[21:02:44] <roycroft> there's no advantage to using cobalt tooling for wood
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[21:02:56] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: BeaverTooth would be a good name if you're looking to name a company for that
[21:03:04] <roycroft> carbide tipped is usually what is used for the high quality wood toling
[21:03:18] <SpeedEvil> roycroft: Well - it depends. HSS can be gotten a lot sharper
[21:03:26] <SpeedEvil> (typicaly)
[21:03:32] <roycroft> yes, but it does not hold up well
[21:03:32] <zeeshan> ^ lies
[21:03:40] <SpeedEvil> True
[21:03:48] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-5PCS-2Flute-R1-5-Milling-tools-Milling-cutter-Ball-nose-End-Mill-CNC-router/32266599297.html?spm=0.0.0.0.wNPUdE
[21:04:02] <XXCoder> 5 hss ball; ems for 11
[21:04:03] <zeeshan> in the theory machining class
[21:04:10] <roycroft> cryogenically treated blades from hock are the best for hand planes and the like
[21:04:14] <zeeshan> i saw carbide tools with a cutting edge radius
[21:04:16] <zeeshan> the same as hss
[21:04:35] <roycroft> that may be true, zeeshan
[21:04:38] <roycroft> i won't argue the point
[21:04:49] <zeeshan> i felt like a tard
[21:04:50] <roycroft> i'll modify the statement (which i only agreed to, not made)
[21:05:09] <zeeshan> trying to ask a bunch machining researchers why hss gives a better finish on aluminum than carbide
[21:05:15] <zeeshan> they looked at me like a deer staring at lights
[21:05:15] <roycroft> most hss wood tooling can take a better edge than most carbide tooling for wood
[21:05:28] <XXCoder> roycroft: thanks
[21:05:44] <XXCoder> will need to figure whan shaft size my edge router use
[21:05:49] <XXCoder> then order a few
[21:06:00] <zeeshan> you can make the edge the same for both i'd think
[21:06:07] <zeeshan> but the problem with carbide might be the edge might want to breka
[21:06:10] <zeeshan> cause of stress concentration
[21:06:26] <roycroft> what if it's cheap carbide, and the carbide chunks are big?
[21:06:35] <XXCoder> evenually I will upgrade to actual spidle
[21:06:39] <XXCoder> but not right now
[21:06:58] <XXCoder> I just need to make mount for my edge router and it will work for while
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[21:10:23] <roycroft> if this is for a cnc machine you should buy the cheapest tooling you can find at first
[21:10:37] <roycroft> so that when you crash the router you won't be out too much for the damaged tooling
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[21:10:55] <XXCoder> yeah was thinking harbour feight at start
[21:11:12] <roycroft> don't expect to get a decent finish with that stuff
[21:11:13] <zeeshan> i bought some chinese cat40 er32
[21:11:22] <zeeshan> 0.0002" runout
[21:11:23] <zeeshan> not bad
[21:11:25] <roycroft> but you can at least start figuring out how the machine works with it
[21:11:35] <XXCoder> and I has thise very nice floor samples from lowes on sale, just 25 cents each
[21:11:39] <roycroft> the chinese know how to make quality tooling/machinery
[21:11:43] <XXCoder> bamboo even. nice
[21:11:44] <roycroft> it's not a matter of if they can do it
[21:12:05] <roycroft> it's a matter of if someone is going to hold them accountable for doing it properly
[21:12:07] <XXCoder> I do belive bamboo is the future
[21:12:16] <roycroft> they'll get away with corner cutting whenever they can
[21:12:22] <XXCoder> its harder than hardwood and grows like grass (because it is)
[21:12:36] <roycroft> bamboo has been the future for a long time
[21:12:42] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:12:45] <roycroft> i grow it in my back yard
[21:12:52] <XXCoder> roycroft: hows you control it
[21:12:52] <roycroft> i'm quite familiar with its properties
[21:12:56] <XXCoder> because it can be nasty
[21:13:05] <roycroft> well there are three ways:
[21:13:14] <roycroft> 1. plant clumping bamboo and not spreading bamboo
[21:13:20] <dmitryplatonov> I have read that hss takes finer edge too
[21:13:45] <XXCoder> you got large yard? because smallest clumping I know of is 9 feet diameter
[21:13:49] <roycroft> 2. plant it in a deep, solid box (i actually have mine in raised beds, but i have hardware cloth buried in the ground lining the beds)
[21:14:05] <roycroft> 3. let it wander and don't try to control it, because you can't
[21:14:18] <roycroft> you can grow clumping bamboo in pots
[21:14:27] <XXCoder> not bad
[21:14:36] <XXCoder> I do want indoors ones too. they kook lovely.
[21:14:44] <XXCoder> s/kook/look
[21:14:48] <roycroft> mine is about 12 years old, and it's starting to escape the planting box
[21:15:05] <roycroft> so i have to out every april (in about 2 weeks from now) and dig up the runners that have escaped
[21:15:39] <XXCoder> yeah have to be really careful
[21:16:28] <Deejay> gn8
[21:17:34] <zeeshan> Most stable materials are hard enough to break before flexing, which makes them very fragile. To avoid chipping at the cutting edge, some tools made of such materials are finished with a sightly blunt edge, which results in higher cutting forces due to an increased shear area, however, tungsten carbide has the ability to attain a significantly sharper cutting edge than tooling steel for uses such
[21:17:35] <zeeshan> wiki
[21:17:36] <zeeshan> :D
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[21:18:11] <XXCoder> roycroft: did you know WSU (washington state university) has bamboo test farms?
[21:18:35] <XXCoder> http://puyallup.wsu.edu/soilmgmt-old/Bamboo.html
[21:19:30] <andypugh> Is it time for this hypnotic link again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRuSYQ5Npek
[21:20:04] <XXCoder> wow]
[21:20:16] <roycroft> no, i did not know that
[21:20:29] <XXCoder> dunno if still going
[21:20:29] <roycroft> i'm on the west side of the mountains
[21:20:34] <roycroft> the east side is in another universe :)
[21:20:35] <andypugh> Interesting that most of the cutting is done by material built-up on the edge
[21:20:45] <XXCoder> west side here too
[21:21:11] <XXCoder> andypugh: looks almost like hard gel or sand
[21:21:16] <roycroft> although puyallup is west of the mountains
[21:21:21] <roycroft> so the farm is on our side
[21:21:25] <andypugh> It’s steel though....
[21:21:29] <roycroft> but wazoo is not
[21:21:43] <XXCoder> wsu is at severial locations\
[21:21:48] <XXCoder> I went to vancouver wsu
[21:21:53] <XXCoder> theres 2 other locations
[21:22:20] * roycroft used to live in bellingham, and took some classes at wwu while he was there
[21:22:22] <XXCoder> really does look like clay andypugh. very slow motion video? wonder how many times
[21:24:05] <andypugh> Hiogh-speed electron microscopy is hard. I rather suspect that it is actual-speed slow cuts. Interesting to ponder what difference that makes.
[21:24:21] <XXCoder> dunno I doubt low speed
[21:24:59] <andypugh> In a previous life I was an electron microscopist. You can’t get that contrast and definition at high speed.
[21:25:14] <XXCoder> hmm ok. I bow to our expert
[21:25:19] <XXCoder> *your
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[21:25:33] <XXCoder> *expert analsys
[21:26:16] <andypugh> New video on my channel. HSM with a 1200rpm spindle. Not really worth it, but Inventor HSM is lovely CAM.
[21:26:23] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NmNM3qjoeM
[21:28:51] <XXCoder> well time to get ready to go. later all
[21:29:07] <SpeedEvil> http://i.imgur.com/G1GJs.jpg - shop cleaning
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[21:29:19] <Connor> andypugh: That's allot of round stock wasted.. why not use a flat bar ?
[21:30:06] <andypugh> I couldn’t find flat bar big enough that wasn’t a lot too big. And round bar is much cheaper too.
[21:30:39] <Connor> Melt down the brass chips and make something else. :)
[21:31:46] <zeeshan> andypugh: they showed me a study of bue formation
[21:32:19] <zeeshan> the test consisted of keeping spindle rpm constant, and facing a large diameter workpiece in a lathe
[21:32:36] <zeeshan> you find 2 rings of bue area
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[21:33:17] <andypugh> Yes, I have seen that myself. Surface speed makes a hiuge difference to finish.
[21:33:17] <zeeshan> so their conclusion was within a certain sfm, workpiece matl etc, you can avoid bue
[21:33:31] <zeeshan> and said that bue is a strong function of sfm only
[21:33:49] <zeeshan> cause they repeated the test for different feeds, and uncut chip thickness
[21:33:59] <zeeshan> i thought that was interesting
[21:34:56] <zeeshan> i forgot why bue happens
[21:35:00] <zeeshan> i have a test on this on thu
[21:35:16] <zeeshan> i remember something about work hardening
[21:35:24] <zeeshan> but i forget why it sticks to the tool
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[21:48:00] <zeeshan> andypugh: is there anyway to speed up a spindle? :D
[21:49:23] <andypugh> There are “spindle speeders” that mount in the spindle and gear-up a smaller sub-spindle.
[21:49:47] <malcom2073> My dad has a spindle speeder
[21:49:50] <malcom2073> scary device
[21:49:53] <malcom2073> But fairly awesome
[21:49:56] <andypugh> But the sensibe thing to do would probably be to mount a Chinese spindle in place of the existing vertical adaptor.
[21:50:13] <zeeshan> i wanna do some 20000 rpm high speed machining in aluminum
[21:50:15] <zeeshan> :/
[21:50:18] <zeeshan> at like 100 ipm
[21:50:30] <zeeshan> but my spindle only goes to 3150
[21:50:33] <malcom2073> Not sure a spindle speeder is going to get you that kind of force
[21:50:43] <Tom_itx> zeeshan what for?
[21:50:49] <malcom2073> How much power do you need to cut that fast?
[21:50:57] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: to hear the beautiful sound of hsm
[21:51:14] <Tom_itx> malcom2073 just use small tools
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[21:51:30] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: Just clamp a brushless motor in the spindle
[21:51:33] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, it's rather annoying
[21:51:43] <SpeedEvil> zee how much power do you want?
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[21:52:44] <zeeshan> i wanna be able to do a cut like this:
[21:54:21] <zeeshan> 1/4" end mill carbide, radial depth of cut=0.1 , axial depth of cut=0.125in, sfm 1000, feed per tooth = 0.0015
[21:54:47] <zeeshan> speed like 15000 rpm
[21:54:52] <zeeshan> 40 ipm
[21:55:15] <zeeshan> like .5 hp
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[22:17:37] <SpeedEvil> I
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ER11-8MM-STRAIGHT-SHANK-COLLET-CHUCK-CNC-MILLING-LATHE-TOOL-WORKHOLDING-D66-/151515712309?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item23470a4b35
[22:18:01] <SpeedEvil> I have been seriously considering using one of these, and replacing the shaft in a brushless motor with it
[22:18:45] <zeeshan> a spindle within a spindle :)
[22:19:00] <andypugh> Useful things. I used an ER32 one to make a rotary axis.
[22:19:30] <andypugh> One forms the basis of my half-designed spindle speeder
[22:19:36] <SpeedEvil> 8mm shaft brushless outrunner motors are commonly available
[22:19:43] <SpeedEvil> cheap for ~$50
[22:20:20] <andypugh> The question is if the shaft comes out of the magnets.
[22:20:25] <SpeedEvil> Upgrading the bearings, replacing the shaft, adding a fan, ...
[22:20:33] <SpeedEvil> It can be removed easily
[22:21:01] <Tom_itx> collet extensions
[22:21:46] <SpeedEvil> Tom_itx: In principle - great - but I'm not assuming the bearings in them are very great or the shaft is ideal
[22:22:19] <Tom_itx> aren't those just collet extensions?
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[22:22:43] <Tom_itx> i've got a small .500" shank one for small cutters
[22:22:48] <SpeedEvil> Oh - I thought you meant one with a double collet
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[22:22:59] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[22:23:15] <SpeedEvil> and yes - I mean to replace the shaft in the motor with that.
[22:23:25] <Tom_itx> could work
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[22:23:28] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, just when I though I was done cutting T-slots I found out I didn't make enough
[22:23:49] <Tom_itx> hah, it looked like you had too many
[22:24:13] <JT-Shop> the sheet had 18 on it and for some reason I only made 16
[22:24:22] <Tom_itx> woops
[22:24:31] <Tom_itx> you like doing setups right?
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[22:27:00] <Tom_itx> SpeedEvil aren't most of those a little short for that?
[22:27:45] <SpeedEvil> The motor I was looking at was ~60mm diameter, ~45mm long, from memory.
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[22:32:35] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You can’t even claim to have made 18 in octal.
[22:34:28] <JT-Shop> I can't claim 18 till sometime tomorrow lol
[22:34:44] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lumacco/routakit?ref=category_recommended isn't this what they carry at Keiling or makerslide?
[22:38:56] <JT-Shop> andypugh, the lamp bracket is for the fire engine?
[22:41:52] <andypugh> No, for the Ner-a-Car
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[22:56:51] <JT-Shop> cool looking
[22:57:08] <JT-Shop> is the Ner-a-Car back together?\
[22:58:03] <andypugh> Yes, I have ridden it more than 100 miles ;-)
[22:58:55] <andypugh> Didn’t you see this last summer?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpHFVzwwZWs
[23:00:41] <JT-Shop> no, I didn't see that
[23:03:30] <JT-Shop> you need some air in the back tire
[23:04:36] <Rab> CaptHindsight, looks like off-the-shelf extrusion with steel V-rails.
[23:10:32] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Everyone says that (everyone is right). Especially because Beaded Edgetyres are Instant Death if underinflated.
[23:12:08] <JT-Shop> have you taken it to any of the antique bike rallies you guys have?
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[23:20:36] <andypugh> Yes, though it was a rather small one
[23:20:50] <andypugh> But at an interesting venue
[23:21:41] <andypugh> http://www.coalhousefort.co.uk
[23:21:47] <andypugh> (Big guns)
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[23:33:06] <andypugh> The History section starts in 1402. That’s 50 years before my parent’s house was built. I think that counts as a long time ago.
[23:33:32] <CaptHindsight> Rab:
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cnc-mogul-machine
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[23:38:35] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: is that worth it?
[23:38:49] <JT-Shop> andypugh, pretty cool place
[23:39:15] <tiwake> oh derp[
[23:39:19] <tiwake> thought that was something else
[23:39:22] <tiwake> heh
[23:39:38] <tiwake> (helps to read)
[23:39:59] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: nah, just another poor router design and kit
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[23:52:48] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Nearby and stranger (from WW11)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunsell_Forts
[23:54:14] <Rab> CaptHindsight, similar concept, but the parts are different. Notably, the Routakit uses steel v-rail, while the ATI kit uses that inane Makerslide.
[23:54:22] <andypugh> JT-Shop: And
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Man%27s_Land_Fort
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[23:56:58] <JT-Shop> pretty cool
[23:57:16] <JT-Shop> I wouldn't want to be out there during war
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[23:58:32] <Tom_itx> are those walkways between them?
[23:58:40] <Tom_itx> no thanks
[23:59:27] <JT-Shop> that's what it they look like
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