Back
[00:00:17] <Tom_L> i don't keep them all on
[00:01:29] <Valen> the irc forwarder things I forget the name, you have it connected from one point (always on) then you just connect in to that from as many devices as you want
[00:01:44] <Valen> I believe its somewhat akin to running a big shared screen session
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[00:02:07] <Tom_L> yeah i've seen guys do that or ssh in to their servers
[00:02:52] <_methods> bouncer
[00:02:57] <Tom_L> i wish i could find the setting to shut alerts off
[00:03:07] <Tom_L> every time i fart windows alerts me
[00:03:15] * Valen makes a bet
[00:03:20] <Valen> Tom_L:
[00:03:22] <Valen> Tom_L:
[00:03:23] <Valen> Tom_L:
[00:03:24] <Valen> Tom_L:
[00:03:28] <Valen> teeee hehehee
[00:03:39] <_methods> i just use a digital ocean vm for my irssi
[00:03:50] <_methods> ssh into that
[00:03:55] <_methods> always connected
[00:04:21] <_methods> and if some scriptkiddie hax me i just delete it and fire up a new vm with a new ip lol
[00:04:38] <Tom_L> Valen, try it now
[00:04:47] <Valen> Tom_L:
[00:05:01] <Tom_L> i wonder if i have to restart it
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[00:06:53] <Tom_L> i think i found it
[00:07:45] <_methods> that's what she said
[00:07:58] <Tom_L> was she wrong?
[00:08:23] <_methods> hahah
[00:08:45] <_methods> that's a trick question
[00:08:48] <_methods> she's never wrong
[00:08:55] <_methods> as long as you want to be happy
[00:09:10] <_methods> you can be right or you can be happy.........never both
[00:09:27] <Tom_L> you can be both as long as you agree with her
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[00:09:55] <_methods> hahah spoken like a true married man
[00:10:23] <Tom_itx> Tom_L
[00:10:33] <Tom_L> yep that fixed it
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[00:20:34] <Tom_L> tennessee pete has been quiet here lately
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[00:29:01] <_methods> i know wtf
[00:29:26] <_methods> tom you have a sherline?
[00:29:43] <_methods> you have a 4th axis on yours?
[00:29:49] <Tom_L> 3 axis
[00:29:56] <_methods> k
[00:30:08] <Tom_L> i wired the control for 4
[00:30:21] <_methods> i need to find a 4th i guess
[00:30:50] <_methods> have you seen any mini mill 5 axis setups?
[00:30:57] <_methods> i saw that one they were sellin on kickstarter
[00:31:14] <_methods> but it looked kinda junkie and it wasn't a mini mill mod
[00:31:23] <Tom_L> no small 5 axis
[00:31:41] <Cromaglious> hmm easiest 5axis would be a 3040 6090 I think
[00:31:54] <_methods> i want 5 axis now lol
[00:32:08] <Cromaglious> make the pivot axis on Y, and have a 4axis on the bed
[00:32:21] <Tom_L> http://www.mdaprecision.com/
[00:32:33] <_methods> i'd just do the standard trunion rotab setup i think
[00:32:40] <Cromaglious> or make the entire gantry the 4th
[00:32:50] <_methods> yeah like that tom lol
[00:33:31] <_methods> omg they want $32k for that lol
[00:33:31] <Tom_L> http://makezine.com/2013/09/23/pocketnc-an-affordable-five-axis-cnc/
[00:33:39] <Tom_L> that one looks kinda cheezy
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[00:34:38] <_methods> yeah that's the shitstarter one i saw
[00:34:48] <_methods> oops i mean kickstarter
[00:35:25] <_methods> that should be a fairly easy to reproduce machine though
[00:36:01] <Tom_L> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Axis-CNC-3040-Table-Column-Type-Engraving-Machine-High-pricision-Ball-Screw-/251354772530
[00:36:42] <Cromaglious> too small of work area
[00:37:00] <_methods> well i'm not too picky on that i just want 5 axis lol
[00:37:25] <_methods> i'll probably just add trunion and rotab to my x2
[00:37:39] <_methods> i'm not sure how much z i'll have though
[00:37:59] <Tom_L> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxxdq6y8z8M
[00:38:03] <Tom_L> that too small?
[00:40:13] <_methods> haha no
[00:40:48] <_methods> man that's like the first 5 axis ever
[00:41:04] <Tom_L> that's stuart's shop
[00:41:42] <_methods> nice
[00:42:16] <_methods> i want one of those hehe
[00:42:38] <_methods> i almost scored a couple ABB robots for $100/ea
[00:42:55] <_methods> local caterpillar plant closed and no one wanted them
[00:43:04] <_methods> at the last minute i got denies
[00:43:12] <Cromaglious> how many #s each were they?
[00:43:20] <Cromaglious> bastards
[00:43:27] <_methods> they were over 6' tall collapsed
[00:43:29] <_methods> lol
[00:43:41] <_methods> i forgot what model# they were
[00:43:59] <Cromaglious> probably over 9K#'s each
[00:44:05] <_methods> they were huge
[00:44:38] <Tom_L> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn1bJ3YAQdI
[00:44:44] <Tom_L> same one doing a ball test
[00:47:38] <Tom_L> skip to 3:46 if you want to see it move
[00:48:08] <_methods> ball bar?
[00:48:35] <_methods> oh not ball bar
[00:48:44] <_methods> just a sphere test
[00:48:48] <Tom_L> yeah
[00:49:33] <Tom_L> like an elephant on tip toes
[00:49:38] <_methods> is linuxcnc the problem?
[00:49:45] <Tom_L> huh?
[00:49:55] <_methods> looks like it's off a bit
[00:50:16] <Tom_L> i don't think it is
[00:50:23] <_methods> oh nm flippin between pc's
[00:50:32] <_methods> i thought it was off by .005
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[00:52:20] <_methods> damn that thing is a beast
[00:52:22] <Tom_L> i'd be happy with one half that size
[00:52:42] <_methods> is it cat50?
[00:52:51] <_methods> looks like a 50hp motor on spindle lol
[00:52:56] <Tom_L> i'm not sure, probably
[00:53:12] <Tom_L> we had a couple cat50 machines
[00:53:14] <Tom_L> okuma
[00:53:30] <Tom_L> dual pallet changers
[00:53:48] <Tom_L> with toumbstones
[00:53:50] <_methods> yeah
[00:53:57] <Cromaglious> if you have a really tall gantry and a Z that juts down then you have room to do a decent 5axis at the bottom of the Z. Spindle in the middle of the A and that inside a bigger B
[00:53:57] <_methods> okuma is hard to beat
[00:54:14] <_methods> they make some great machines
[00:54:20] <_methods> i've never ran a new okuma
[00:54:25] <Tom_L> we had good luck with them
[00:54:25] <_methods> it's on my bucket list lol
[00:54:33] <Tom_L> i ran a cadet lathe for a while
[00:54:37] <Tom_L> i kinda liked it
[00:54:41] <Cromaglious> X would have to be pretty wide.
[00:54:44] <_methods> all i've ever ran is used okumas
[00:54:55] <_methods> all been 20+ y/o
[00:55:05] <_methods> still running better than new mazaks lol
[00:55:08] <Tom_L> ours were new
[00:55:22] <Tom_L> mori are hard to beat
[00:55:28] <Cromaglious> ~~|~~ ~~ is X on both sides of | or Z
[00:55:39] <_methods> yeah i've ran some new mori's
[00:55:40] <_methods> and old
[00:55:55] <_methods> they've always been solid
[00:56:19] <Tom_L> we had some trees
[00:56:24] <Tom_L> they were pretty solid
[00:56:30] <Tom_L> one had a shit control on it
[00:57:02] <_methods> yeah that old mori i used to run still had to use g50 lol
[00:57:07] <_methods> it had a shit board t
[00:57:17] <_methods> we used to send it out every 6 months for rebuild
[00:57:20] <_methods> hehe
[00:58:13] <_methods> damn thing would still hold +/- .0002
[01:00:42] <_methods> ended up ditchin it for a couple tsugami double turret double chuckers
[01:02:07] <_methods> that mori would have been a perfect linuxcnc candidate
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[01:30:32] <minimill> ahhh
[01:30:42] <minimill> irc client finally on the new box
[01:31:11] <Tom_L> defunct radio shack is gonna sell your name if you ever gave it to them
[01:31:21] <minimill> ack yeah
[01:31:22] <minimill> i read that
[01:31:28] <minimill> ugh i need a cloak
[01:31:42] <minimill> that's why i use digital ocean/irssi
[01:31:53] <minimill> droppin my ip in irc is poo poo
[01:32:18] <Tom_L> rr.com?
[01:32:22] <minimill> yeah
[01:32:26] <minimill> sc.rr.com
[01:32:42] <minimill> i don't care if my DO ip gets dropped
[01:32:48] <minimill> but my home ip isn't cool
[01:33:10] <malcom2073> Why?
[01:33:17] <minimill> um irc?
[01:33:49] <malcom2073> Yeah? You're much more likely to run afoul of a malciious script recording your IP on a website than on irc :P
[01:34:09] <minimill> this is true
[01:34:15] <malcom2073> Or random IP scanning hitting you
[01:34:24] <minimill> yeah
[01:34:39] <malcom2073> Though if you have open services that aren't protected, you get what's coming to you anyway :P
[01:34:56] <minimill> i just try not to throw my ip around on irc
[01:35:01] <minimill> my home ip
[01:35:27] <Tom_L> is it static?
[01:35:43] <minimill> pretty much anymore
[01:35:57] <minimill> it's not but i can't remember the last time it changed
[01:36:02] <minimill> it's not like the old days
[01:36:35] <minimill> i still use dyndns for anything i need to make sure stays "static"
[01:37:03] <Tom_L> i did until they started charging
[01:37:07] <minimill> alright got freecad to compile and run finally
[01:37:19] <minimill> they still have free they just made it a bitch to find
[01:37:46] <Tom_L> i have a couple others that work just fine
[01:37:58] <minimill> yeah there are plenty of free
[01:38:13] <minimill> i think the free dyndns is only like 1 ip now
[01:38:16] <Tom_L> i could care less what the link looks like
[01:38:16] <minimill> so F th at
[01:38:23] <minimill> yeah
[01:38:37] <minimill> i try to keep them as small as possible
[01:38:41] <Tom_L> my local isp blocks 80 so i gotta map that too
[01:38:44] <minimill> easier for people to remember
[01:39:00] <minimill> wow this is so fancy with graphics
[01:39:11] <minimill> xchat is like cadillac compared to irssi
[01:39:44] <minimill> wow so many buttons lol
[01:41:13] <minimill> ůКЛЩоØõõ
[01:41:23] <minimill> oh i can make sexy letter time
[01:42:50] <malcom2073> lol
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[01:57:42] <minimill> ድሳፋስድፋድስፍ
[01:57:51] <minimill> ዎው ትሃት﹐ስ ችራዝይ
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[01:58:30] <minimill> и хаве но диеа вхат иьм тыпинг нов
[01:58:46] <minimill> wow i speak tongues
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[02:26:01] <zeeshan> i cnc'ed this today
[02:26:02] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/H2xAUEN.jpg
[02:26:30] <Tom_L> pfft
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[02:28:54] <Tom_L> now let's see the real chips
[02:29:40] <zeeshan> :)
[02:29:43] <zeeshan> i made the mix from scratch
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[02:45:38] <furrywolf> bitchx is nice. irssi is evil.
[02:45:59] <zeeshan> weechat!
[02:47:04] <furrywolf> never used it
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[02:52:36] <Cromaglious> I used Bx for 10 years...
[02:52:52] <Cromaglious> somewhere I have my Bx Logs
[02:53:04] <Cromaglious> of #linpeople
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[02:53:39] <Cromaglious> back then I never ran X
[02:55:56] <furrywolf> I've been using ircii/epic-derived clients for ~age of internet, so am pretty used to them... which is why irssi pisses me off so much. everything is designed to look familiar, but then works differently.
[02:56:35] <Cromaglious> heh
[02:56:46] <Cromaglious> oop people got ahold of it
[02:57:10] <Cromaglious> I never could do oop, I'm procedural to the core
[02:58:00] <furrywolf> I can do either...
[02:58:02] <Cromaglious> so multi threaded apps throw me a bit, since you need a oop mindset to visualize them
[02:58:16] <furrywolf> no, you can have entirely procedural multithreaded apps.
[02:58:22] <furrywolf> there's no need for an OO-ness.
[02:58:23] <furrywolf> any
[02:58:49] <Cromaglious> true, you need a bit of oop mindset to VISUALIZE them
[02:59:13] <furrywolf> no, you don't. lol
[02:59:33] <zeeshan> try weechat
[02:59:35] <zeeshan> its really good
[02:59:44] <Cromaglious> you can do either, I can't
[02:59:54] <Cromaglious> I really tried to...
[03:00:45] <Cromaglious> I used to hold 5 levels of linked lists in my head when programming, no more, not since I got whacked in the head with a claw hammer
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[03:03:17] <furrywolf> ... don't do that?
[03:03:20] <Cromaglious> I used to do Asm x86, Z80, 6502, 65816, 68k, 68010, 68020, 6809, 8086, 8051. Basic, ms, gw, ibm, true, quickb, Powerbasic (turbobasic), pascal, c, fortran
[03:04:16] <Cromaglious> the oops crap members, etc... Delphi, C++, C--, vb, PBgui
[03:04:45] <Cromaglious> I use PB console compiler for everything now
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[03:04:56] <Cromaglious> or straight C in linux
[03:05:58] <furrywolf> heh, I've done c, c++, php, perl, bash, pascal, basic (a few varieties... trs-80 I was probably best at), lisp, haskell, esterel (if you want weird multithreading, check out esterel!), prolog, asm (mostly hc11 and sparc), several scripting languages, umm... I know there's more, but that's what I can remember off the top of my head right now.
[03:05:59] <Cromaglious> holding more than 2 levels of linked lists is beyond me anymore
[03:06:30] <Cromaglious> oh yeah, perl when I was at SBC long distance
[03:07:02] <furrywolf> java, of course
[03:07:10] <Cromaglious> trash-80 Model I, II, 4p, 12, and 16 here
[03:07:26] <Cromaglious> I do a tiny bit of javascript
[03:07:30] <furrywolf> heh, I had a model III and a CoCo2.
[03:07:46] <Cromaglious> never had a coco or III or 4
[03:07:48] <furrywolf> with a mapper board, so it'd run cp/m. :)
[03:09:00] <furrywolf> of all of them, C is still my go-to language.
[03:09:04] <Cromaglious> I had a 4p with 4 internal 720k 3.5" drives and a external 720 on a toggle switch to switch drive 4 from internal to external. I had Pickles and Trout cpm for it
[03:09:16] <furrywolf> someone needs to make something that's as wonderfully easy as C to write, but that has proper string and array handling.
[03:09:37] <Cromaglious> 720 was a 80 track 5.25" to read 5.25" media
[03:09:51] <Cromaglious> it's called pascal
[03:09:59] <furrywolf> no, pascal is horrid.
[03:10:05] <furrywolf> C is beautiful. :)
[03:11:58] <Cromaglious> on the 4p I had that 256K bank switch hack... upper 16K could be swapped out for any 16k of the 256K. There was a mod to access 2Mb sameway.. I never did it
[03:12:58] * furrywolf has an altair 8800 in storage
[03:13:14] <jdh> I tossed my 4 (non-p)
[03:13:41] <furrywolf> hrmm, what else have I written... I was quite good at various TI calculator languages for a while... wrote a 3d graphics package for the ti-82 and ti-83 which lacked such.
[03:13:42] <Cromaglious> the serial chip rocked.. on a 8mhz machine I could do 115k without dropping a char which you couldn't do on a 16mhz 286
[03:14:07] <Cromaglious> uart had a 16K buffer
[03:14:20] <furrywolf> that's an impressive buffer.
[03:14:48] <furrywolf> I really, really regret scrapping my tektronix scientist... it'd be a valuable museum piece now.
[03:14:51] <Cromaglious> there were mods to run up around 2Mbps
[03:15:25] <Cromaglious> later you could get one with a 64K buffer right around 90
[03:15:36] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321711383764 anyone doing a budget build need a diy spindle>?
[03:15:53] <Cromaglious> I used a 4p up until 92 before I moved to PC's
[03:16:20] <Cromaglious> I had a model 16 running xenix
[03:16:46] <Cromaglious> I sold that to alamo match maker in '91 i think
[03:18:16] <furrywolf> not familiar with who that is
[03:19:38] <furrywolf> I was starting to learn verilog once, but the project ended up getting cancelled
[03:20:38] <furrywolf> know what I do now? I drive a delivery van. it is one of the least interesting jobs in the world.
[03:22:54] <Cromaglious> they're called matchmaker.com now
[03:23:35] <Cromaglious> I need to get my license again...
[03:24:15] <zeeshan> furrywolf: fak you
[03:24:22] <furrywolf> ?
[03:24:24] <zeeshan> you got a lot of potential
[03:24:30] <zeeshan> do something else!
[03:24:47] <LeelooMinai> But he drives it on a race track
[03:24:51] <zeeshan> haha
[03:24:58] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: did you blow your battery up
[03:25:11] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: No, seems fine
[03:25:17] <zeeshan> nice
[03:25:23] <zeeshan> is your machine working
[03:25:58] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I got a bit distracted by the solar project. I am designing my own monitor for the whole system now - want to finish it within a week including pcb design.
[03:26:12] <zeeshan> wait what
[03:26:15] <zeeshan> youre building a lcd?
[03:26:15] <zeeshan> :D
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[03:28:14] <LeelooMinai> well, the monitor in the sense that it will monitor currents and voltages (3 channels, up to 80V tolerant,) temperatures (I think also 3 channels,). By fully isolated (including power supply for the whole board,) Will have ARM on-board with 3 signa delta 16 bit ADCs and will stream data through isolated spi to the raspberry PI.
[03:28:27] <furrywolf> grrrr, reading the news. the state has declared mandatory water use restrictions again. Guess what? THERE'S NO WATER SHORTAGE HERE. Just because the rest of the state is dry, doesn't mean we are. Our reservoirs are all overflowing.
[03:28:57] <LeelooMinai> I am doing the schematic part now, but mostly sorted out the design and what parts to use by now.
[03:29:04] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: you'd better not be designing something that fancy and hooking it up to a butchered budget ups.
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[03:29:52] <furrywolf> also, by some coincidence, my Outback FlexNet DC also monitors three current channels, and all I had to do was spend money. :)
[03:30:07] <LeelooMinai> It's not really related to UPS that much - the monitoring nodes will sit between panels and MMPT one, another between MPPT and the battery(or ies) and the third one between baatteries and whatever (maybe UPS)
[03:30:19] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: why all this work
[03:30:26] <zeeshan> when you can display it on your linuxcnc screen! :P
[03:31:31] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I estimate one week work. For few reasons - custom solutions are expensive and closed, I want lots of data coming from it all the time and I want total control over it with no software that is not mine to deal with.
[03:32:00] <furrywolf> I'm really tempted to go stick a sprinkler next to the road and let it run 24/7.
[03:32:23] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: you really dislike linuxcnc?!?!
[03:32:35] <zeeshan> writing a userspace component is so easy in it thoug!!
[03:32:41] <LeelooMinai> I want to stream at lest 40 samples per sec all the time for all data to PI and to some database. Having the data will alllow me to do whatever I want with it in terms of software.
[03:32:49] <furrywolf> I was thinking of building my own current monitor once, got a few ina226 chips... they look like
http://fw.bushytails.net/ina226usb01.jpg
[03:32:55] <zeeshan> ah cool
[03:32:56] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: But what has linuxcnc have to do with solar panels? :)
[03:32:59] <zeeshan> oh
[03:33:05] <zeeshan> i thought this was for your cnc machine
[03:33:15] <LeelooMinai> Yes, ina226 are nice - but 36V max
[03:33:24] <furrywolf> I have a 24V system, so... :P
[03:33:39] <LeelooMinai> Well, my panels will be in series, and thats 60V +
[03:33:40] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: are you an off the grid hippie
[03:33:59] <furrywolf> I ended up deciding fthat if my time was worth anything, I was just better off buying a premade solution.
[03:34:12] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: No, it's more that I have those panels already and I am determined to make them do something useful.
[03:34:15] <furrywolf> my charge controller provides panel voltage on the network
[03:34:28] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: how many w
[03:34:31] <furrywolf> and panel current
[03:34:51] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: You know, after my experience with that UPS reporting 100watt as 50watt as power I will rather trust what I design:)
[03:35:00] <zeeshan> rofl
[03:35:05] <furrywolf> or, at least, it's supposed to, but mine has a firmware bug where it doesn't provide it accurately, and I'm too lazy/cheap to get it upgraded. (you have to send it back to Outback because it's too old)
[03:35:05] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: It's small 2x 210watt
[03:35:08] <zeeshan> that sounds likme something i designed
[03:35:23] <zeeshan> nice LeelooMinai how much v
[03:35:34] <zeeshan> at full power
[03:35:35] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Each panel is 32V 8A or so
[03:35:41] <furrywolf> it provides accurate pv voltage, but inaccurate pv current. (very inaccurate - as in, useless)
[03:35:47] <LeelooMinai> 28V at full load I think
[03:35:54] <LeelooMinai> 32 is open circuit
[03:36:09] <furrywolf> the same bug also keeps it from recording the daily ah and kwh output, so you have to do it yourself.
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[03:36:22] <furrywolf> eww, 60-cell panels.
[03:36:40] <furrywolf> MX port 2, chg 0.0A, pv 0.0A, batt 25.1V, pv 2.0V, daily 0.0kWh 9999.0Ah, aux 0, error 0x00, charger 0.
[03:36:44] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: I bought cheap Chinese shunts - they are 0.5% with 75mV drop at full current (come with 10A, 20A, 100A - whatever one wants)
[03:36:59] <zeeshan> so do you put those in parallel
[03:36:59] <furrywolf> current output from my charge controller. as you might guess from the 0.0A charge, it's currently dark. :)
[03:36:59] <zeeshan> or series
[03:37:01] * zeeshan doesnt know
[03:37:03] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: And I am making sure that I have at least that precision over whole range
[03:37:29] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: You can do it either way. Parallel will double curent, while series voltage.
[03:37:58] <LeelooMinai> A lot of current - expensive cables , a lot of voltage - need proper controller
[03:38:00] <furrywolf> the firmware bug is annoying... it displays the correct values for all three of those on its lcd, but it corrupts them before they make it out the network port.
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[03:38:39] <furrywolf> parallel with >2 panels also requires fusing individual panels, increasing cost and wiring.
[03:39:02] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: but that is assuming
[03:39:07] <zeeshan> they're both producing full power
[03:39:09] <LeelooMinai> I am also adding calibration to my desing. Each channel will have tiny relay that will short differential inputs to on-board precicion 75mA source, so I will be able to calibrate the whole signal path automatically.
[03:39:16] <zeeshan> sounds like a fun project
[03:39:22] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Yes, well, you design for full load.
[03:39:27] <zeeshan> i wonder if you could wire each cell to a controller
[03:39:31] <zeeshan> that power balances shit
[03:39:42] <furrywolf> zeeshan: all modern panels have built-in bypass diodes, so non-producing cells get bypassed instead of killing the whole array.
[03:39:43] <LeelooMinai> There are microinverters - one per panel.
[03:39:53] <LeelooMinai> They are pretty popular.
[03:40:02] <zeeshan> when i hear inverter
[03:40:07] <zeeshan> i hear complex electronics
[03:40:08] <zeeshan> and $$$$$$$$$$44
[03:40:45] <LeelooMinai> Well, they have both controller and small inverter in a box that goes onto panel. Enphase makes them for example. They are nice, but, well, I don't know, at least $200 per panel.
[03:40:48] <furrywolf> Vr on a cell is around -10V, so each shaded cell causes a 10V drop in panel output, and a risk of frying the cell... so they all have bypass diodes more often than every 10V, so cells never go past their reverse breakdown voltage.
[03:41:12] <LeelooMinai> Right, my panels have 4 bypass diodes inside
[03:41:22] <furrywolf> spending $200 on an inverter for a $100 panel is questionable.
[03:42:15] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I was considering them, but then they want to sell one those $400 monitoring things.... They work over mains (signaling through them that is) Bugger it - I will make my own system not to get locked into some silliness.
[03:42:56] <furrywolf> I've gotten a few free panels because the bypass diodes were fried. people hook alligator clips up to the panel to charge batteries, get them backwards, and the bypass diodes all turn into dead shorts... so the panel then puts out 0.0V, and they think it's fried. but it's really hard to fry a panel with reverse voltage - you'd need 10V * cells to really force a lot of current through it... new diodes and they've always been perfect.
[03:43:39] <LeelooMinai> It takes a special person to just connect the pannel backwards:)
[03:44:05] <LeelooMinai> They usually have huge + and - symbols there
[03:44:41] <furrywolf> I got one that had huge + and - symbols hand-written on it in sharpie... backwards. :P
[03:45:09] <furrywolf> that's not usually the case, though. usually it's mis-reading the battery when connecting the clips, or similar.
[03:46:00] <zeeshan> wouldnt it be easier
[03:46:05] <zeeshan> to just hook up a wheel to a motor
[03:46:09] <zeeshan> and throw it in a lake!?!
[03:46:20] <zeeshan> river i mean
[03:46:29] <furrywolf> to do what, make a fountain? :P
[03:46:32] <LeelooMinai> For what? Fishing?
[03:46:35] <furrywolf> lol
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[03:47:01] <furrywolf> microhydro requires either substantial flow or substantial head, and very few properties have either.
[03:47:08] <zeeshan> for power generation
[03:47:24] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you make yourself a reservoior
[03:47:24] <LeelooMinai> Some people also use small wind turbines
[03:47:28] <zeeshan> and then activate a gate! :P
[03:47:41] <LeelooMinai> I saw Chinese selling some parts for them, so they must be popular.
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[03:48:00] <zeeshan> one day i will have a cabin in the middle of no where near a river
[03:48:02] <furrywolf> first of all, most people don't own rivers. the state doesn't like that. second, properties that people actually live on tend to be flat. third, the state requires a permit to divert water, even from a small stream.
[03:48:04] <zeeshan> and you will see this hax
[03:48:20] <zeeshan> the state needs to find out first
[03:48:25] <zeeshan> :-)
[03:48:45] <furrywolf> as an example, just to use some random numbers...
[03:48:46] <furrywolf> You have: 10 gallons/minute * 100 feet * gravity * waterdensity
[03:48:47] <furrywolf> You want: watts
[03:48:47] <furrywolf> * 188.58082
[03:49:08] <furrywolf> the theoretical maximum if you have 10 gallons/minute at 100 feet drop is only 188 watts. reality will be well under half that.
[03:49:22] <LeelooMinai> I did some calculations few time to see how much energy would be in, say 100kg at 10m, and was surprised how little it was in terms of watt hours.
[03:49:25] <zeeshan> Q * h * g * p
[03:49:28] <zeeshan> sounds right
[03:49:49] <LeelooMinai> People consume a lot of energy in electricity
[03:49:52] <furrywolf> all linux boxen should have the "units" program installed. if yours doesn't, fix that. :)
[03:50:04] <zeeshan> i aint using linux
[03:50:06] <zeeshan> who uses linux as a desktop
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[03:50:17] <furrywolf> people who want their computers to work?
[03:50:28] <zeeshan> people who do real work on their comp run windows!
[03:50:31] <LeelooMinai> To store something useful I would need to have like a tank heaved to 100m:)
[03:50:49] <furrywolf> I want to strangle all people who want to generate hydroelectricity from their rain gutters. seems people keep suggesting it, no matter how many times you beat it into their heads that there's no power in it.
[03:50:59] <zeeshan> furrywolf
[03:51:04] <zeeshan> like i said, you need a river
[03:51:17] <furrywolf> see what I said above about the problems with rivers
[03:51:24] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Well, there's some - maybe to light a tiny led for 1s? :)
[03:51:27] <zeeshan> if i want 7k watts
[03:51:35] <zeeshan> i'd need like 80m head
[03:51:38] <zeeshan> and 20 l/s
[03:51:45] <zeeshan> thats both doable
[03:51:58] <LeelooMinai> O, right, I watched this video and thought furrywolf would be interested
[03:52:00] <furrywolf> You have: 0.25 inches / hour * 1000 ft2 * 9 ft * gravity * waterdensity
[03:52:01] <furrywolf> You want: watts
[03:52:01] <furrywolf> * 4.4083828
[03:52:01] <zeeshan> 262 feet
[03:52:22] * furrywolf is rarely interested in videos
[03:52:24] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: It's about those led filaments you once mentioned:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_XiunR-cAQ
[03:52:30] <zeeshan> 317 gallons per min
[03:52:34] <LeelooMinai> It's from mikeselectric
[03:52:54] <zeeshan> depending onthe river
[03:52:56] <zeeshan> you can easily do tha t:)
[03:53:17] <furrywolf> so, during a reasonably heavy rainfall, if you capture all the water off a reasonable size roof, you get around 2 watts.
[03:53:19] <LeelooMinai> They seem to be strings of blue leds with yellow cover
[03:53:28] <zeeshan> rain waterr collection for this purpose
[03:53:30] <zeeshan> is a bad idea
[03:53:34] <zeeshan> you need a river
[03:53:39] <LeelooMinai> On somewhat bendable base
[03:53:40] <furrywolf> yes. there's 15 blue emitters in each string. I read the spec sheet on them once.
[03:54:03] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: He makes a clock from them in that video
[03:54:14] <LeelooMinai> For lols mostly
[03:54:38] <LeelooMinai> Also abuses them a bit also for lols
[03:55:18] <LeelooMinai> Wait, I was supposed to make my schematic
[03:55:19] <furrywolf> zeeshan: again, rivers are impractical. First of all, you often don't own rivers - the state keeps them. You can't build a dam and powerplant without a permit. Second, very few properties have significant elevation change, AND a river. rivers tend to run in valleys along the path of least elevation change, while properties tend to run up the sides, with no river. third, using the water from even a small stream requires a permit, de
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[03:55:32] <zeeshan> you assume too much
[03:55:59] * LeelooMinai imagines zeeshan saying that while looking outside a window in small house on top of a waterfall
[03:56:11] <zeeshan> you dont need a waterfall LeelooMinai
[03:56:14] <furrywolf> here, there's a push to _remove_ existing hydroelectric dams. Because the two groups of hippies are fighting each other. One group of hippies says clean energy is a good thing. The other group pretends that issue doesn't exist and just talks about how the dams kill fish.
[03:56:15] <zeeshan> theres plenty of places in newfoundland
[03:56:30] <zeeshan> where thers a 200 m elevation change with water falling down
[03:56:33] <zeeshan> shit even in hamilton
[03:56:39] <zeeshan> theres 400m elevation change with water falling down
[03:56:40] <furrywolf> Said groups of hippies have been in the courts for decades...
[03:56:56] <zeeshan> and when you're living in the middle of nowhere
[03:57:03] <LeelooMinai> I don't think it maters if it's 10m or 1km:)
[03:57:10] <zeeshan> most common "permits" bs goes out the window
[03:57:31] <furrywolf> hah. they've sent random inspectors around to properties here to check for "unauthorized diversions".
[03:57:41] <zeeshan> no, i mean you can legally do it
[03:57:45] <zeeshan> and getting a permit is easy
[03:57:53] <furrywolf> not in california. :P
[03:57:59] <zeeshan> yea well thats not the middle of nowhere
[03:58:04] <zeeshan> newfoundland, northern ontario
[03:58:05] <zeeshan> are
[03:58:06] <zeeshan> :P
[03:58:13] <zeeshan> but northern ontario is changing
[03:58:16] <zeeshan> cause of all the mining stuff
[03:58:18] <zeeshan> now they're tightening up
[03:58:27] <zeeshan> bastards =/
[03:58:35] <furrywolf> the salmon people really piss me off... pushing to remove perfectly good hydroelectric dams because they supposedly harm salmon, which will increase global warming and sulfur emissions, harming salmon.
[03:58:50] <zeeshan> salmon is tasty
[03:59:08] <LeelooMinai> They will eat salmons using candles for lighting
[03:59:27] <zeeshan> i really liked the idea of geothermal power
[03:59:31] <zeeshan> but where i live currently
[03:59:39] <zeeshan> the crust is too damn thick ;p
[03:59:59] <furrywolf> I should start selling salmon oil as an alternative vehicle fuel, just to really piss them off!
[03:59:59] <LeelooMinai> Me too - I even tried to drill to the molten core once, but got tired.
[04:00:05] <zeeshan> ROFL
[04:00:10] <furrywolf> "over 200 adult fish in every gallon!"
[04:00:10] <furrywolf> maybe next 4/1...
[04:00:11] <zeeshan> yea ithink its like 45 km down
[04:00:12] <zeeshan> for otnario
[04:00:51] <LeelooMinai> It's far away, then pretty small distance considering
[04:01:04] <zeeshan> but from what ive heard
[04:01:09] <zeeshan> you need to go down like 3km
[04:01:16] <zeeshan> to get a differential of approx 270C
[04:01:20] <furrywolf> the headline article on one of the local papers this 4/1 was a plan to increase whaling to reduce sea level rise, by removing such a large volume from the oceans.
[04:01:24] <zeeshan> that can generate some power :)
[04:01:39] <zeeshan> furrywolf: ROFL ROFL ROFL
[04:01:40] <zeeshan> hahahaha
[04:01:57] <furrywolf> won't someone please think of the mole people?!
[04:02:38] <roycroft> except the dams that are being breached are in need of major repairs, and the repairs would not be cost effective - it's actually better to remove them than to repair them
[04:02:47] <roycroft> that removing them restores fisheries is an added benefit
[04:02:55] <zeeshan> interesting
[04:03:00] <zeeshan> the deepest hole drilled is 12,345 m
[04:03:05] <zeeshan> 40502 feet
[04:03:11] <roycroft> and breaching a dam does not contribute to global climate change
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[04:03:31] <zeeshan> approx 10000 feet more than an airplane's typical flight height
[04:03:34] <roycroft> st vincent de paul have built some low income apartments here in eugene using geothermal heat
[04:03:35] <zeeshan> very cool!
[04:03:37] <furrywolf> they're generating power. thus, they're not in need of major repairs. :P
[04:03:42] <roycroft> which his pretty neat
[04:03:55] <zeeshan> fak those permits
[04:03:58] <zeeshan> beavers aree the problem
[04:04:00] <zeeshan> and their dams
[04:04:08] <zeeshan> they eat hard wood and destroy forests
[04:04:10] <zeeshan> and build dams!
[04:04:20] <zeeshan> how come they dont need a permit
[04:04:36] <furrywolf> and removing any source of clean energy contributes to global warming and acid rain. not a chance of getting new nuclear built for a while after japan...
[04:04:38] <roycroft> the ones in washington and oregon, at least, that ahve been breached have had serious structural problems
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[04:05:07] <roycroft> removing a source of clean energy and replacing it with not clean energy would contribute
[04:05:16] <roycroft> but there is not a direct cause and effect relationship there
[04:05:37] <roycroft> if you replace the hydro power with some other form of carbon neutral power you're not increasing the carbon footprint
[04:05:45] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
[04:05:51] <zeeshan> they're opening a nuclear plant in india
[04:05:57] <furrywolf> sure there is. demand remains the same. supply of clean energy drops. shortage is made up with supply from other plants.
[04:06:00] <zeeshan> so your theory is incorrect :)
[04:06:37] * roycroft sends furrywolf to remedial logic class
[04:07:04] <zeeshan> if only they ran linuxcnc
[04:07:11] <zeeshan> we could solve the world's energy problems
[04:07:16] <furrywolf> zeeshan: that's not the US, is it? :P
[04:07:36] <zeeshan> furrywolf: they are building one in the usa
[04:07:44] <zeeshan> watts bar 2
[04:07:46] <zeeshan> look her up
[04:08:03] <zeeshan> i think its planned to start end of this year
[04:08:12] <roycroft> conservation is the most cost effective way to supply more energy
[04:08:27] <roycroft> which is why the teabaggers stock up on incandescent light bulbs
[04:08:28] <zeeshan> i aint conserving shit
[04:08:35] <zeeshan> :D
[04:08:38] <roycroft> so they can spend money telling the government to fuck off
[04:08:53] <roycroft> and increase their power bills as a way of sticking it to the government
[04:09:08] <furrywolf> lol
[04:09:18] <furrywolf> I've switched most of my CFLs to LEDs now.
[04:09:24] <roycroft> i have too
[04:09:32] <zeeshan> you guys swapping from cfls to led's
[04:09:32] <furrywolf> only incandescents are in the fridge and microwave.
[04:09:38] <zeeshan> isnt going to do shit for the world wide demand for power
[04:09:39] <zeeshan> no offence!
[04:09:45] <roycroft> my boss, however, has a basement half full of incandescent light bulbs, as do many of his friends
[04:09:47] <zeeshan> for every led bulb you install
[04:09:50] <zeeshan> there is a new factory in china opening
[04:09:54] <zeeshan> consuming 2903130298213089 more power
[04:10:02] <zeeshan> to make your led bulbs
[04:10:24] <roycroft> the other half *was* full of guns and ammo, but then he went around telling people that he was stocking up on that stuff before obama took it all away from us
[04:10:29] <zeeshan> the only person benefiting is us for installing them
[04:10:30] <furrywolf> zeeshan: no, but they put out nicer light, don't need to warm up, and last longer, which greatly encourages their use, unlike CFLs which suck and make people stick with incandescents.
[04:10:32] <zeeshan> cause our power consumption is less
[04:10:35] <roycroft> so, of course, he got burgled
[04:10:44] <roycroft> and is just now starting to stock up on guns and ammo again
[04:10:46] <zeeshan> i agree
[04:10:50] <zeeshan> led light is way better than cfl
[04:10:53] <zeeshan> cfl is nasty
[04:11:01] <roycroft> cfl was a good transitional lamp
[04:11:04] <furrywolf> around here MOST houses are well-stocked with guns and ammo. :P
[04:11:14] <roycroft> it saved a lot of energy while leds were being perfected
[04:11:23] <roycroft> i swap them out as the cfls burn out
[04:11:31] <roycroft> i didn't go and proactively switch them all out
[04:11:32] <zeeshan> problems is cfls dont burn out easily
[04:11:32] <zeeshan> lol
[04:11:38] <roycroft> sure they do
[04:11:47] <zeeshan> mine have been running for like 6 years now
[04:11:49] <furrywolf> some I'm waiting to burn out... others I got fucking sick of the warmup time and changed while still working.
[04:11:58] <roycroft> yeah, 5-6 years is about right for most of them
[04:12:01] <roycroft> some burn out sooner
[04:12:07] <furrywolf> it helped that 810lm 9.5W LED bulbs were on sale for under $4.
[04:12:07] <roycroft> some last a little longer
[04:12:24] <zeeshan> i have a q for you guys
[04:12:28] <roycroft> $10 is the magic price point
[04:12:33] <zeeshan> since led's are so efficient and consume very little energy
[04:12:37] <zeeshan> how come you need massive heatsinks for em
[04:12:40] <furrywolf> how about $10.99 for 3, which is what these were?
[04:12:49] <roycroft> when led bulbs started selling for <$10 people started buying them en masse
[04:12:57] <furrywolf> zeeshan: because they like running COLD. any temperature rise greatly decreases efficiency and life.
[04:13:11] <zeeshan> yea but the heatsink is hot to touch
[04:13:14] <furrywolf> they're selling them now for $13.99 for 3... not quite as cheap, but still nice.
[04:13:20] <roycroft> because they're not 100% efficient?
[04:13:25] <furrywolf> zeeshan: also, 10W is a lot for a small non-fan heatsink.
[04:13:32] <zeeshan> yes but lets say they were 10% efficient
[04:13:40] <zeeshan> a 10 w led is outputting 9W of heat
[04:13:43] <zeeshan> thats not much heat
[04:13:52] <zeeshan> why is the heatsink so hot
[04:13:54] <furrywolf> if they're 10% efficient, your 10W lamp is putting 9W into the heatsink. 9W is enough to get quite warm.
[04:13:55] <roycroft> i'm assuming the rectifier is also not 100% efficient
[04:14:10] <roycroft> a combo of pv cells + led lamps would be really good
[04:14:16] <furrywolf> ... it's so hot because it has 9W heating it?
[04:14:23] <zeeshan> 9 w isnt much eating
[04:14:35] <zeeshan> *heating
[04:14:38] <renesis> on how much area?
[04:14:40] <roycroft> but when you have that ac current you lose efficiency
[04:14:45] <renesis> with what c/w sink?
[04:14:57] * furrywolf gives zeeshan a 10W ceramic resistor, an appropriate power supply to run 9W into it, and some aloe.
[04:15:15] <zeeshan> http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/1000768149_P_4.jpg
[04:15:16] <zeeshan> i got those
[04:15:33] <roycroft> my led lamps don't operate even remotely as hot as incandescents, or even cfls
[04:15:35] <zeeshan> that heatsink is hot to touch
[04:15:47] <renesis> that means its working
[04:15:53] <zeeshan> roycroft: same
[04:15:58] <zeeshan> well the cfl is definitely cooler
[04:16:00] <zeeshan> than the led
[04:16:01] <zeeshan> i take that back
[04:16:29] <roycroft> maybe i've been using cheap cfls
[04:16:34] <roycroft> since they burn out and run hotter than leds
[04:16:55] <zeeshan> i usually run phillips
[04:16:58] <zeeshan> cause thats what home depot has on sale
[04:17:06] <zeeshan> and with the government rebate
[04:17:08] <zeeshan> its relatively cheap
[04:17:13] <furrywolf> I run what Costco has on sale.
[04:17:14] <zeeshan> like 12 bux a bulb for 19W led
[04:17:22] <zeeshan> or was it 9
[04:17:23] <zeeshan> i dont remember
[04:17:38] <furrywolf> yeah, costco has 19.5W ones for $12.99 right now
[04:17:50] <zeeshan> do you guys get a government rebate
[04:17:54] <furrywolf> I got a couple of them, they seem to work
[04:17:59] <furrywolf> no
[04:19:16] <furrywolf> the local power company has a small rebate on some bulbs, occasionally. which bulbs and how much seems random.
[04:19:31] <zeeshan> depends on whos bribe they are taking
[04:19:34] <zeeshan> :-)
[04:20:18] <furrywolf> probably
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[04:21:00] <furrywolf> zeeshan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gcYAFPxeug mentions led heating
[04:21:06] <roycroft> the higher efficiency of leds is reason enough to replace incandescents with them
[04:21:09] <furrywolf> or, at least, the bulb he has doesn't.
[04:21:09] <roycroft> roi isn't very long
[04:21:41] <roycroft> but in this 30 second attention span world a lot of folks don't see that
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[04:32:06] <renesis> roycroft: unless you live someplace cold
[04:32:22] <renesis> and have electric heating
[04:32:52] <roycroft> in which case the incandescents would contribute to the heat in the winter
[04:32:52] <roycroft> sure
[04:33:04] <roycroft> but in the summer your air conditioner would have to work harder
[04:33:13] <roycroft> so let's call that a wash
[04:33:39] <renesis> right, depends where you live
[04:33:46] <roycroft> yes
[04:33:56] <renesis> do canadians have a/c?
[04:34:30] <roycroft> in many parts of canada, yes
[04:34:46] <roycroft> so do folks in the alaskan interior
[04:35:03] <renesis> gets hot at elevation?
[04:35:18] <renesis> but like, snow everywhere
[04:35:32] <roycroft> it gets up in the 30s in the summer in many parts of the interior
[04:35:44] <roycroft> and with the long days, it stays hot for long periods of time
[04:35:46] <renesis> i guess valleys are valleys
[04:36:32] <furrywolf> no a/c here
[04:36:49] <roycroft> i only have a/c in my office
[04:36:50] <furrywolf> I don't think I've ever seen a central a/c system, just a very rare window unit... and most of them are to dehumidify grows anyway.
[04:36:56] <roycroft> oh, and also in my garage
[04:37:05] <zeeshan> in your garage?1
[04:37:05] <renesis> youre coastal in one of the nicest climates on earth
[04:37:06] <zeeshan> rich m,an!
[04:37:07] <roycroft> but that's because i used to have a couple racks of computers in the garage
[04:37:36] <renesis> air was so nice in my room when i was growing weed
[04:37:48] <roycroft> the one in my office is because my mac pro lives there, with a buttload of hard disks
[04:37:54] <renesis> a/c and hepa filters 24/7
[04:37:55] <roycroft> and i have to keep the door closed to keep the cats out
[04:38:03] <roycroft> it gets pretty warm there even in the winter
[04:38:49] <renesis> cats are bad for hepa filters
[04:39:01] <renesis> gotta decat them every so often
[04:39:48] * furrywolf suggests instead not growing weed
[04:40:10] <renesis> besides the time, whats the problem?
[04:40:56] <furrywolf> weed encourages stupidity. stupidity is bad.
[04:41:23] <renesis> debatable when you consider the of the people who smoke weed
[04:41:36] <LeelooMinai> ...
[04:41:41] <renesis> and alc makes people straight retarded and dangerous
[04:42:04] <furrywolf> yes. I also think alcohol is bad.
[04:42:21] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[04:42:31] <renesis> and when you considerr the effects of modern phycotropic medication and pain killers, weed is pretty benign
[04:44:07] <renesis> also, hemp fiber and protein is amazing shit
[04:44:20] <renesis> if we replaced cow farms with hemp farms wed be in a much better place
[04:44:48] <furrywolf> except steak is yummy.
[04:44:49] <furrywolf> bbl
[04:44:54] * roycroft is a homebrewer, and unsurprisingly has a different attitude about alcohol
[04:44:57] <roycroft> and weed
[04:45:11] <furrywolf> I've never seen any intelligence come out of alcohol or weed.
[04:45:11] <zeeshan> alcohol and weed is silly :p
[04:45:12] <roycroft> neither, in my view, are a problem in and of themselves
[04:45:19] <roycroft> in moderation they're fine
[04:45:26] <roycroft> but they're as prone to abuse as anything else
[04:45:31] <furrywolf> in themselves? like it's ok to be fucking stupid as long as you do it responsibly?
[04:45:36] <zeeshan> lol
[04:45:38] <zeeshan> haha
[04:45:44] <renesis> throughout history, yes furrywolf
[04:45:45] <zeeshan> i'm w/ furry on this one
[04:45:45] <furrywolf> it's ok! I only turn myself into an idiot occasionally!
[04:45:47] <renesis> do you like music?
[04:45:53] <renesis> because thats how a lot of music happened
[04:45:59] <renesis> do you like art?
[04:46:06] <roycroft> you don't see many things in the world other than from an extremely negative viewpoint, furrywolf
[04:46:11] <roycroft> so i'm not surprised
[04:46:11] <zeeshan> yea i guess plato was smoking a bowl
[04:46:15] <LeelooMinai> You don't need weed to make good music...
[04:46:15] <zeeshan> when he was painting
[04:46:17] <zeeshan> yea ok.
[04:46:21] <zeeshan> dumb arguement
[04:46:25] <LeelooMinai> Wait, why do I heven had to write it...
[04:46:33] <zeeshan> people who smoke weed and alcohol
[04:46:34] <renesis> leeloominai: yet weed was involved in much good music
[04:46:43] <zeeshan> just dont have enough self control
[04:46:46] <roycroft> right
[04:46:51] <zeeshan> they need a substance to make them feel good
[04:46:53] <roycroft> because everyone is exactly the same
[04:46:53] <furrywolf> I haven't noticed the bands that did the most drugs making the best music, and I've certainly noticed the must drug-induced albums tended to be the worst... not to mention the godfucking high percentage of musicians who died thanks to drugs, thus not producing further music.
[04:46:59] <renesis> if no weed means led zeppelin and black sabbath and pink floyd turned out different, then no weed is a bad thing
[04:47:03] <zeeshan> roycroft: i'm being ignorant
[04:47:07] <zeeshan> you should know me by now
[04:47:07] <zeeshan> :)
[04:47:10] <LeelooMinai> renesis: A lot of things were involved... doesn't mean that was a good thing:)
[04:47:14] <roycroft> weed and alcohol are mind altering substances
[04:47:19] <roycroft> people enjoy having their minds altered
[04:47:20] <renesis> so is food
[04:47:24] <furrywolf> Jim Morrison sober = good music. Jim high = worse-than-bad poetry. Jim drunk = masturbating on stage.
[04:47:27] <roycroft> lettuce and cinnamon are also mind altering substances
[04:47:33] <roycroft> it's not a matter of is or isn't
[04:47:35] <roycroft> it's a matter of degree
[04:47:43] <renesis> nutmeg is some hardcore shit
[04:47:58] <roycroft> i would argue that sugar causes more harm to people than weed
[04:48:21] <furrywolf> Jim on heroin = dead.
[04:48:28] <furrywolf> but, now, bbl, sleep.
[04:48:34] <LeelooMinai> I would argue that you are trying to justify it at any cost:)
[04:48:42] <renesis> i dont think many of us are arguing that heroin is a positive thing on average
[04:48:44] <roycroft> trying to justify what?
[04:48:54] <renesis> why does it need to be justified
[04:48:56] <zeeshan> why do you need weed and alcohol
[04:48:57] <renesis> its how things are
[04:48:58] <LeelooMinai> weed and other mind altering substances
[04:49:00] <renesis> throughout history
[04:49:02] <zeeshan> are you so dependent on them to make you feel good?
[04:49:04] <renesis> and in the animal kingdom
[04:49:05] <furrywolf> why? heroin is fine in moderation.
[04:49:10] <roycroft> i don't need to justify them
[04:49:15] <roycroft> they're naturally occuring thigns
[04:49:18] <roycroft> things
[04:49:23] <zeeshan> so is cyanide
[04:49:26] <zeeshan> whats your point
[04:49:26] <renesis> furrywolf: right but because of its affect on physiology, moderation is almost impossible
[04:49:29] <renesis> coke is the same
[04:49:37] <furrywolf> lol
[04:49:56] <roycroft> look - if you enjoy a nice refreshing beverage, by all means do so
[04:49:59] <roycroft> if you don't then don't
[04:50:02] <roycroft> it's pretty simple
[04:50:03] <zeeshan> i dont mind people drinking as a beverage
[04:50:10] <LeelooMinai> Not that I am agains mind altering in some hard core way - it's just that weed and stuff like that is like randomly banging the head with a hammer in hope the good consequences will outweight the bad
[04:50:11] <zeeshan> but when they do it to get tipsy and drunk
[04:50:13] <zeeshan> its retarded
[04:50:54] <zeeshan> weed in even small quantities changes your behaviour
[04:51:03] <zeeshan> i don't see the need for it
[04:51:04] <roycroft> my boss drinks mud-thick coffee all day long
[04:51:11] <roycroft> like 10-15 cups while i'm in the office
[04:51:18] <zeeshan> i can accept alcohol as a berage
[04:51:23] <roycroft> and then rails against alcohol and weed use
[04:51:23] <zeeshan> beverage, its like a cig
[04:51:28] <roycroft> because they're "drugs"
[04:51:32] <roycroft> his wife chain smokes
[04:51:39] <zeeshan> caffiene isn't going to make him impaired
[04:51:42] <roycroft> and she claims that alcohol and weed are sinful
[04:51:43] <renesis> eh?
[04:51:45] <renesis> sure it does
[04:51:48] <renesis> it effects your sleep
[04:51:48] * furrywolf doesn't drink coffee either, although would argue coffee doesn't tend to make people stupid, unlike weed and alcohol.
[04:51:54] <renesis> which is one of the biggest impairments there is
[04:52:03] <renesis> it definitely effects your thinking
[04:52:08] <roycroft> in moderation weed and alcohol don't "make people stupid"
[04:52:11] <renesis> in terms of your ability to focus
[04:52:19] <roycroft> overindulgence is stupidity in and of itself
[04:52:24] <roycroft> but that applies to anything
[04:52:25] <furrywolf> roycroft: show me a person consuming either and being intelligent.
[04:52:26] <zeeshan> any weed smoker i've met
[04:52:28] <zeeshan> even in smal lquantities
[04:52:32] <zeeshan> is mentally retarded
[04:52:35] <zeeshan> renesis is a prime example
[04:52:39] * zeeshan runs
[04:52:43] <renesis> honestly you probably dont know a lot of people you know smoke weed
[04:52:47] <zeeshan> oh i do
[04:52:48] <renesis> with an attitude like that
[04:52:49] * roycroft had a mojito this evening
[04:52:51] <renesis> you live in canada
[04:52:51] <zeeshan> and i have done it in the past
[04:52:58] <zeeshan> glad i stoppec
[04:52:58] <roycroft> have i been acting stupidly online?
[04:53:18] <furrywolf> I live in the weed capital of the country. I know most of them smoke weed. I also know we have strict random drug testing at work, creating a good drug-free control group.
[04:53:28] <furrywolf> yes. why just a little bit ago, you were arguing that alcohol and weed were ok.
[04:53:35] <zeeshan> and just for your info
[04:53:36] <roycroft> *chuckle*
[04:53:39] <zeeshan> if you work in a professional environment
[04:53:45] <zeeshan> and people find out you smoke weed in your off time
[04:53:48] <zeeshan> they;ll never take you seriously
[04:53:54] <zeeshan> and you'll wonder why you never got a promotion
[04:53:54] * LeelooMinai ponders the circular nature of roycroft acting stupidly by trying to justify weed
[04:53:58] <roycroft> that's a cultural thing, zeeshan
[04:54:02] <renesis> yeah it is
[04:54:05] <zeeshan> i'm glad to hell it is
[04:54:07] <renesis> music industry is not like that
[04:54:08] <zeeshan> cause i am totally against it
[04:54:15] <roycroft> the anti-weed attitude is totally cultural
[04:54:19] <zeeshan> especioally in a professional environment
[04:54:26] <furrywolf> we get the 9-panel with expanded opiates test, and random hair sample tests just to make sure the quarterly tests don't miss anything.
[04:54:27] <zeeshan> i have yet to meet one weed smoker as being normal
[04:54:30] <roycroft> it stems from william randolph hurst
[04:54:36] <zeeshan> furrywolf: good!
[04:54:46] <roycroft> hurst made a poor investment - he invested heavily in cotton
[04:55:06] <roycroft> and found it was not very profitable because hemp was so much cheaper to grow and process
[04:55:12] <zeeshan> i don't see the need for weed
[04:55:16] <zeeshan> you get the same effect going for a nice hike
[04:55:22] <renesis> eh?
[04:55:23] <roycroft> hurst also made his investment durinfg the dust bowl period
[04:55:35] <furrywolf> roycroft: it's not cultural. I used to have a rather strongly libertarian attitude, that people could do whatever the heck they wanted as long as it wasn't harming others. then I realized that drug consumption unavoidably harms others, because it makes people stupid, and stupidity harms others.
[04:55:36] <roycroft> and cotton is one of the most water-intensive crops that we have
[04:55:42] <zeeshan> im sure the arists of the group of seven
[04:55:46] <roycroft> making it even more expensive to grow
[04:55:54] <zeeshan> were using weed as their agent of choice to make awesome artwork
[04:55:57] <roycroft> as a result, hurst lobbied to get marijuana outlawed
[04:56:00] <zeeshan> or perhaps they were on a hike :)
[04:56:12] <roycroft> he made the point that it was primarily negroes who were using it
[04:56:17] <roycroft> and demonized it
[04:56:36] <furrywolf> my opinion is based on personal observations, not history.
[04:56:40] <roycroft> reefer madness has absolutely nothing to do with reality, but it was an effective propoganda film
[04:56:56] <roycroft> hurst managed to get marijuana outlawed
[04:57:06] <zeeshan> same with me
[04:57:07] <renesis> 1934 was a fucked up year
[04:57:09] <zeeshan> met enough weed smokers
[04:57:11] <roycroft> and hemp as well, as it not easily distinguishable from marijuana
[04:57:17] <furrywolf> weed makes people FUCKING USELESS. you can have someone productively working on something, then they take a few bong hits, and within minutes they're utterly useless and serving no benefit to society other than removing excess oxygen from the air.
[04:57:21] <renesis> anslinger needed to justify his departments paycheck because prohibition ended
[04:57:23] <roycroft> and his cotton investment improved
[04:57:28] <roycroft> that's why it's illegal
[04:57:29] <zeeshan> lol furrywolf
[04:57:33] <renesis> weed makes people useless?
[04:57:36] <zeeshan> yes it does
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[04:57:40] <furrywolf> yes
[04:57:46] <zeeshan> i saw this w/ a coworker too
[04:57:51] <zeeshan> was productive and after lunch
[04:57:51] <zeeshan> BAM
[04:57:53] <zeeshan> useless
[04:57:57] <roycroft> if affluent white people were smoking weed at the time and the blacks were doing all the drinking then pot would be legal now and prohibition would never have been repealed
[04:58:09] <furrywolf> renesis: what productive things have you done while stoned? (and I mean things that were actually deemed productive by other people, not things you thought were productive at the time)
[04:58:13] <zeeshan> roycroft: why it is banned i get
[04:58:18] <zeeshan> but it doesnt change the fact how it influences people
[04:58:21] <renesis> anyway, silicon valley is filled with functional stoners
[04:58:29] <zeeshan> there is a reaso why perfectly natural drugs are outlawed
[04:58:31] <zeeshan> or controlled
[04:58:32] <renesis> tons of programmers
[04:58:35] <roycroft> i'm not saying it has no effect on people
[04:58:44] <roycroft> i'm saying that its effect is often overrated
[04:58:48] <renesis> you guys are pulling shit out of your ass, everything roycroft has said is rational
[04:58:54] <roycroft> and i'm saying that anything we do has an effect on us
[04:58:55] <renesis> anyway bbl
[04:59:00] <furrywolf> I've known many people in silicon valley. None of the productive ones were stoners. I've seen people try to code while stoned. It's sad. very, very sad.
[04:59:19] <roycroft> so you can't make an argument that "pot and alcohol are bad, mmmkay, because they affect our brains"
[04:59:24] <roycroft> using that logic everything is bad
[04:59:26] <furrywolf> I used to live in santa cruz, just over the hill from silicon valley.
[04:59:35] <zeeshan> roycroft: it is a poor arguement
[04:59:37] <roycroft> so again it gets down to a matter of degree
[04:59:37] <zeeshan> still doesnt change the fact
[04:59:43] <roycroft> it's not black and white
[04:59:45] <zeeshan> they make people useless
[04:59:50] <zeeshan> that is pretty black and white.
[04:59:53] <furrywolf> Stoned coding is how to end up on dailywtf.
[04:59:53] <renesis> it helps many people, too
[04:59:55] <roycroft> except it's not true
[04:59:59] <renesis> just like most other psychotropes
[05:00:06] <renesis> should we ban psychotropic medication?
[05:00:09] <roycroft> they make some people useless
[05:00:10] <furrywolf> yes, it is true. your usefullness goes to zero when you consome them.
[05:00:13] <furrywolf> consume
[05:00:16] <renesis> haha @ zero
[05:00:17] <renesis> wow
[05:00:19] <roycroft> that's patently falce
[05:00:21] <roycroft> false
[05:00:25] <renesis> seriously
[05:00:28] <zeeshan> for weed i agree with furrywolf
[05:00:31] <zeeshan> for alcohol not so much
[05:00:33] <roycroft> that's fine
[05:00:35] <zeeshan> maybe a couple drinks till they go to zero
[05:00:42] <roycroft> in this country you have the right to be wrong about things
[05:00:50] <zeeshan> yep, you do
[05:00:56] <roycroft> so i'll accept your right to take that position
[05:01:00] <zeeshan> same here!
[05:01:05] <furrywolf> zeeshan: alcohol is just as bad... I've been with groups working on things, and someone shows up with beer. within a half hour, every single god damn fucking time, all productivity has ceased for the day.
[05:01:12] <roycroft> but i vehemently disagree with you
[05:01:16] <renesis> alcohol is so much worse
[05:01:18] <zeeshan> furrywolf: one beer isnt going to do anything
[05:01:25] <roycroft> alcohol is much worse than pot for sure
[05:01:26] <renesis> one hit isnt going to do much
[05:01:27] <zeeshan> and drinking on the job is stupid
[05:01:33] <zeeshan> same with weed
[05:01:39] <zeeshan> what you do on your spare time is up to you
[05:01:47] <zeeshan> but i can sense a pot smoker from a mile away
[05:01:53] <renesis> honestly, i worked someplace where vp of engineering would walk around with a bucket on a cart
[05:01:56] <renesis> pick your beer
[05:02:07] <renesis> working continued at the same breakneck pace
[05:02:09] <furrywolf> it's gotten to the point where I just pack up and leave when beer appears, because I know nothing useful will happen after that point. And the next day, I'm invariably right - nothing got done.
[05:02:23] <renesis> problems solved, things shipped
[05:02:35] <zeeshan> ive done both to not want to ever do them again
[05:02:42] <zeeshan> and enough to build my own judgement about others who do them
[05:02:50] <zeeshan> everyone is entitled to their opinion
[05:02:55] <roycroft> i'll have a beer or a glass of cider at lunch once in a while
[05:02:57] <zeeshan> but i definitely will never hire a pot smoker for engineering related work
[05:02:58] <furrywolf> I worked some place where my boss smoked weed. He'd doing everything at 1/10th speed from that point on, including drive.
[05:03:00] <zeeshan> i give you my word on that
[05:03:08] <roycroft> i'm just as productive in the afternoon as in the morning
[05:03:25] <roycroft> more than one beer or cider i would not consume when i have to go back to work
[05:03:33] <renesis> beers at lunch onf fridays was pretty standard
[05:03:41] <renesis> friday after lunch was usually crazy busy
[05:03:43] <roycroft> again, it's a matter of degree
[05:03:46] <furrywolf> utterly unproductive, like all other people who consume weed... and dangerous, like all who consume it and drive.
[05:03:58] <roycroft> except i know an awful lot of people who smoke weed
[05:04:02] <renesis> yeah there are studies that discount that point exactly
[05:04:04] <renesis> not all people
[05:04:06] <renesis> some people
[05:04:08] <roycroft> and there's no way i can pigeonhole them like that
[05:04:11] <renesis> some people drove measurably better
[05:04:29] <renesis> cali highway patrol and brit gov came to same conclusions
[05:04:30] <furrywolf> although he'd be going slow enough he was about as dangerous as a boulder in the road, in that you were a lot more likely to hit him than him you, given he drove about 5mph when stoned...
[05:04:31] <roycroft> "all people who smoke weed" have nothing whatsoever in common except they all smoke weed
[05:04:36] <zeeshan> what's your reason for smoking weed renesis and roycroft
[05:05:10] <roycroft> how much they smoke, how it affects them, how they behave after consuming differs widely from person to person
[05:05:13] <furrywolf> I've yet to meet a single person who becomes more productive after consuming either alcohol or marijuana.
[05:05:17] <renesis> zeeshan: insomnia, chronic hip joint issue, and phychotropic medication i was forced to take 15 years ago made me useless
[05:05:24] <roycroft> that's because you don't observe - you prejudge
[05:05:40] <furrywolf> I've met people who became more productive after consuming methanphetamine, but it invariably degraded into other forms of useless within weeks.
[05:05:47] <renesis> prescribed medication fucked my memory and eyesight and focus
[05:05:51] <roycroft> and only see what you've decided is true
[05:06:01] <renesis> stopped, went back to smoking weed, got two AS degrees and an AA degree
[05:06:06] <renesis> got a dream job
[05:06:11] <renesis> helped my mom pay rent for years
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[05:06:25] <furrywolf> roycroft: maybe you ignored the part where I said I used to think drug consumption was ok, until constant observations made my change my mind?
[05:06:48] <renesis> i was top of my class in my electronics program
[05:06:52] <roycroft> do you live in yreka or somewhere like that?
[05:06:59] <furrywolf> I used to have a rather strong libertarian attitude, and thought people should be able to do whatever drugs they want. Then I saw what effect this has.
[05:07:01] <renesis> and because of that, my cnc program was pretty easy
[05:07:07] <furrywolf> near Eureka, where all the pot is grown
[05:07:24] <renesis> also, i dont like vicodin or valium
[05:07:31] <roycroft> eureka/arcata are generally a bit more educated than most of northern california
[05:07:34] <renesis> vicodin doesnt help the pain, it just makes me not give a shit
[05:07:46] <renesis> and after 2 days of it, stopping hurts
[05:07:47] <roycroft> i'm suprised you would make that kind of observation there
[05:07:56] * zeeshan has no words to say
[05:08:04] <furrywolf> why? all around me I see drugs making people into idiots?
[05:08:05] <renesis> valium helps with the siatic nerve and hip interference issue
[05:08:07] <zeeshan> enough were said for me :P
[05:08:13] <roycroft> but arcata, especially, attracts a lot of transients who are hard-core potheads, i'll readily concede that
[05:08:19] <renesis> because muscle relaxer, but it makes me useless for days
[05:08:22] <zeeshan> furrywolf: this is one of those arguement that never ends
[05:08:25] <zeeshan> and just wastes time
[05:08:42] <zeeshan> let the alcohol+weed'rs do their thing
[05:08:48] <renesis> well you asked a question and i had like 10 answers
[05:08:48] <furrywolf> Eureka gets most of the transients, Arcata the stoners.
[05:08:55] <roycroft> i think christianity messes up people's minds a lot more than pot does
[05:08:59] <renesis> so youre saying the things i mentioned are negative?
[05:09:05] <renesis> roycroft: omg yes
[05:09:06] <roycroft> but i'm not for banning people from talking to invisible sky guy
[05:09:08] <furrywolf> I think religion should be banned too.
[05:09:10] <zeeshan> renesis: i have no comment for what you said
[05:09:18] <zeeshan> i think you explained your reasoning for weed very well
[05:09:18] <furrywolf> I am.
[05:09:27] <renesis> right because it discounts what youve said as truth
[05:09:36] <zeeshan> you're right
[05:09:36] <zeeshan> i'm wrong
[05:09:38] <zeeshan> you're all right
[05:09:47] <zeeshan> but ill still never hire you for eng related work :P
[05:09:56] <zeeshan> have a good night!
[05:10:01] <roycroft> i'm not saying, and never have said, that i think there can be no ill effects from smoking weed
[05:10:15] <roycroft> i'm just saying that it's not as evil and harmful as some folks make it out to be
[05:10:16] <furrywolf> If you talk to the invisible green alien who tells you to burn things, you get drugged and/or locked up. If you talk to the invisible sky guy who tells you to kill all the gays and jews and ragheads... you can be president!
[05:10:32] <zeeshan> furrywolf: no sky guy tells you to do that
[05:10:33] <renesis> zeeshan: thats cool i dont like working with kissasses
[05:10:45] <roycroft> if you ask any cop who is honest (hard to find, sadly) the cop will tell you it's better to deal with someone who is stoned than someone who is drunk
[05:10:49] <zeeshan> renesis: i don't like working with people who are mentally unstable either
[05:10:54] <zeeshan> and had to rely on psychotropics
[05:11:00] <roycroft> i respect that you anti-weed folks are also anti-alcohol
[05:11:02] <furrywolf> zeeshan: you are apparantly unfamiliar with the messages the sky guy tells people living in the southern part of the US.
[05:11:03] <roycroft> i disagree completely
[05:11:08] <roycroft> but at least you're consistent
[05:11:24] <zeeshan> lol furrywolf
[05:11:31] <zeeshan> there might be a modbus communication error
[05:11:41] <zeeshan> they didnt do a proper crc check
[05:11:45] <roycroft> like "your sisters are cute - especiallythe one with the tooth"
[05:11:47] <roycroft> that message?
[05:11:51] <furrywolf> did you know I'd be a felon if I moved to alabama, because I own more than 5 sex toys?
[05:12:16] <renesis> zeeshan: ah, so fuck everyne who didnt have a charmed upbringing or perfect genes, eh?
[05:12:27] <renesis> also more people are on phychotropes than you think
[05:12:27] <furrywolf> the messages the deep south gets from their skyguy are generally hateful.
[05:12:34] <renesis> just like more people smoke weed than you think
[05:12:46] <zeeshan> renesis you know everything about me
[05:12:52] <zeeshan> can you tell me what i'm going to do tonight
[05:13:02] <roycroft> you're going to breath a number of times
[05:13:04] <renesis> how do i know everything about you?
[05:13:07] <roycroft> and later on you're going to sleep
[05:13:14] * roycroft knows all about zeeshan
[05:13:15] <zeeshan> because you're telling me what i think is wrong
[05:13:16] <renesis> you have a way of taking things said and stretching them out
[05:13:19] <zeeshan> so you know all about how i think
[05:13:19] <zeeshan> lol
[05:13:19] <furrywolf> I lost a friend due to prescription drugs once. He suddenly started acting weird and annoying, and I asked what was up. He said the doctor gave him some antidepressants and he was happy now. He was no longer someone I wanted to be around.
[05:13:41] <roycroft> well there's that whole thing too
[05:13:44] <renesis> yeah prescription psychotropes are hardcore drugs
[05:13:50] <renesis> you stop them and you get junkie shakes
[05:13:54] <roycroft> a nation addicted to rx drugs
[05:14:03] <renesis> and the withdrawal is exactly what they prescribe them to treat
[05:14:07] <renesis> its somewhat of a scam
[05:14:34] <roycroft> some guy smoking a joint once in a while is a useless burden on society
[05:14:36] <renesis> they have their place, but theyre over used
[05:14:37] <furrywolf> I'm addicted to sleep (an addiction that can be broken with sufficient quantites of tweek, but I don't plan on doing that), and it's now well over an hour past when I should have started getting some. bbl.
[05:14:47] <roycroft> but rush limbaugh can take his rx pain killers and is a hero
[05:14:56] <renesis> kid is weird, maybe the next einstein, and they put him on drugs that fuck him up
[05:15:21] * furrywolf doesn't support widespread use of prescription drugs either
[05:15:32] <zeeshan> i dont even take tynelol
[05:15:33] <zeeshan> lol
[05:15:39] <roycroft> the other big aspect of marijuana prohibition is how it's being used to replace jim crow laws
[05:15:46] <furrywolf> there are some people with legitimate defects that can be treated with drugs. I think it's far fewer than the number taking them.
[05:15:47] <furrywolf> bbl
[05:16:02] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i agree
[05:16:08] <zeeshan> there was this one guy who came in with tooth pain
[05:16:11] <zeeshan> asking my dad for tynelol 3
[05:16:14] <roycroft> if you're white and at least middle class and you get caught with a joint you get a slap on the wrist
[05:16:18] <zeeshan> dad checked, could tell he was in pain
[05:16:30] <zeeshan> prescribed tyenelol 2
[05:16:31] <roycroft> if you're brown or poor white (read: democrats) you get a felony conviction and lose your voting privilege
[05:16:38] <renesis> roycroft: yeah cops usually gave me back my herb when i was with white friend girl
[05:16:41] <Tecan> i take marijuana medically, and its pretty awesome
[05:16:47] <zeeshan> guy really wanted tynelol 3.
[05:16:54] <zeeshan> completely unnecessary
[05:17:57] <furrywolf> around here, if you get caught with a joint, regardless of color, the cop tells you to go smoke it out of his sight.
[05:18:15] <roycroft> around here it will be legal as of 1 july
[05:18:23] <renesis> also, ive met plenty of sober people who were dishonest and lazy
[05:18:29] <roycroft> but we don't have a history of locking up brown people for small amounts of weed here
[05:18:36] <roycroft> like they do back east and in the south
[05:18:37] <furrywolf> you don't even get a felony for large-scale cultivation
[05:18:46] <furrywolf> bbl
[05:18:51] <roycroft> unless the feds bust you
[05:19:09] <furrywolf> which they do 2-3 people each year to make a point, and don't care what color you are.
[05:19:32] <roycroft> right - the feds don't do it as a form of voter suppression like the states do
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[05:21:19] <roycroft> well in the end, i'm not advocating that anyone go out and drink alcohol or smoke weed
[05:21:28] <roycroft> if you want to do it, fine
[05:21:32] <roycroft> if you don't fine
[05:22:10] <roycroft> but if you go on a hike up in the mountains and breathe in the fresh mountain air and take in the views, that can be a mind altering experience
[05:22:22] <zeeshan> ^ i like that
[05:22:24] <roycroft> i don't see how that's inherently any different than ingesting a plant material
[05:22:36] <renesis> its more stres son joints
[05:22:37] <roycroft> or drinking a beverage that's been processed by yeast
[05:22:48] <renesis> but yeah love hiking
[05:22:51] <renesis> miss chatsworth
[05:23:14] <zeeshan> you can smoke all the weed you want , i dont care :)
[05:23:18] <roycroft> if you fall off that mountain that is an extreme mind altering experience
[05:23:19] <zeeshan> till i have to deal with you!
[05:23:21] <roycroft> which i do not recommend
[05:23:29] <renesis> good because when my shit hurts and i do, it means i can go hiking
[05:23:38] <roycroft> the same with overindulging in the plant material or the yeast-processed beverage
[05:23:46] <zeeshan> i think those guys that jump off mountains are better people
[05:23:48] <zeeshan> than weed smokers
[05:23:55] <renesis> ?
[05:23:56] <zeeshan> call me ignorant all you want
[05:23:58] <renesis> better people?
[05:24:05] <zeeshan> yes
[05:24:05] <roycroft> i think that's an unfair judgement
[05:24:36] <renesis> he judges a lot
[05:24:37] <roycroft> but again, you have the right to that opinion
[05:25:01] <renesis> yes i think judging is a positive thing
[05:25:06] <renesis> christians are insane
[05:25:09] <roycroft> i judge beer
[05:25:18] <renesis> what kind you into?
[05:25:21] <roycroft> homebrewers have competitions
[05:25:25] <renesis> ipa junkie?
[05:25:28] <roycroft> lord no
[05:25:33] <renesis> haha cool!
[05:25:34] <roycroft> i live in the pacific northwet
[05:25:41] <roycroft> i got burned out on ipas in the '80s
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[05:26:07] <roycroft> i brew one every couple of years, just so i don't get kicked out of oregon
[05:26:24] <renesis> sounds safe
[05:26:36] <renesis> roycroft: you ever done mead?
[05:26:38] <roycroft> i like to brew scottish ales, english bitters, various belgian styles, and gruits (hop-free ales)
[05:26:42] <roycroft> i do make mead
[05:26:43] <roycroft> and cider
[05:26:56] <renesis> can you legally ship?
[05:26:59] <roycroft> no
[05:27:02] <renesis> sucks
[05:27:10] <roycroft> i also don't drink all that much
[05:27:13] <renesis> i love that shit, so hard to find
[05:27:24] <renesis> rogue has one, its pretty light
[05:27:29] <roycroft> unlike most folks in my brew club
[05:27:41] * roycroft seriously dislikes everything about rogue
[05:28:05] <renesis> i had hydromel in a brittany pub in montreal, girl was like drink this, so i had two because it tasted like no alc
[05:28:08] <renesis> omfg
[05:28:32] <roycroft> i take that back
[05:28:37] <roycroft> john maier is a cool guy
[05:28:49] <roycroft> why he works for them i'll never understand, though
[05:29:01] <renesis> i just got the mead because who else makes mead
[05:29:11] <roycroft> we have two meaderies in eugene
[05:29:11] <renesis> like, wide distribution, i think thats the only ones ive seen
[05:29:23] <renesis> names? they distribute out of state?
[05:29:30] <roycroft> one of them makes a session mead that they distribute in cans!
[05:29:45] <roycroft> i don't think either distribute out of state yet
[05:29:47] <renesis> cans seem to be the new big thing in micro brew
[05:29:59] <roycroft> but blue dog mead is the one that has a canning line
[05:30:00] <renesis> well im prob in oregon end of summer
[05:30:08] <roycroft> they would be the first to ship far away, i think
[05:30:20] <roycroft> we have three cideries in eugene now
[05:30:35] <renesis> they do much besides apple?
[05:30:36] <roycroft> and there's a pretty big one in corvallis (45 minutes north) - 2towns
[05:30:43] <roycroft> 2towns do a perry once in a while
[05:30:49] <roycroft> they distribute to washington
[05:30:56] <roycroft> i don't know how much farther though
[05:30:58] <renesis> that doesnt help me heh
[05:31:31] <renesis> fuck, 200 extra miles of driving for mead
[05:31:41] <renesis> they got anything in medford? heh
[05:31:48] <roycroft> i'm not sure
[05:31:59] <roycroft> i haven't been down there in a while
[05:32:01] <renesis> im sure it would be a gorgeous drive
[05:32:06] <renesis> likely can afford it by then
[05:32:07] <roycroft> i'd bet you're more likely to find mead/cider in ashland than medford
[05:32:16] <renesis> well im going to ashland
[05:32:21] <renesis> thats where my friend stays
[05:33:22] <renesis> ha, place is weird its like southern california on one side, pacific northwest on the other
[05:33:57] <roycroft> we also have viking braggot - it's just a few blocks from where i live
[05:34:11] <renesis> what that?
[05:34:15] <renesis> sounds like mead
[05:34:17] <roycroft> braggot is ale/mead
[05:34:27] <roycroft> it's an ale with a large amount (over 30%) honey
[05:34:39] <renesis> whats alc like when its done?
[05:34:53] <renesis> 4-12% type stuff?
[05:34:59] <roycroft> usually in the 5-6% range
[05:35:05] <renesis> cool
[05:35:22] <roycroft> they don't have a bottling line
[05:35:27] <renesis> ha neighbor is home
[05:35:32] <roycroft> their tasting room is open friday and saturday nights
[05:35:38] <roycroft> and they do keg distribution to pubs
[05:35:40] <renesis> guy was so drunk once, he smashed into my lock door trying to get inside
[05:35:52] <renesis> and broke me door latch, i was stuck inside for hours taking my door apart
[05:35:56] <renesis> *my
[05:36:56] <renesis> dont think he remembers
[05:37:11] <roycroft> i think that several folks on this channel don't appreciate discussion of alcohol, so perhaps we should end this conversation
[05:37:20] <renesis> prob not a bad idea
[05:37:37] <renesis> off to the library, nice talking
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[06:47:03] <Deejay> moin
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[08:44:21] <renesis> deejay: hi
[08:46:25] <Deejay> hi there :)
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[10:38:05] <_methods> wow you guys had quite a night
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[11:02:27] <rootB> hey linuxCNC, where can i buy 608 bearings that wont cost me a fortune
[11:03:07] <MrSunshine> ebay? :P
[11:04:04] <MrSunshine> http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/608-ZZ_Shielded_Miniature_Ball_Bearing__Pack_of_10__-7731-p
[11:04:36] <MrSunshine> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-608ZZ-Deep-Groove-Ball-Bearing-8mm-22mm-7mm-for-3D-Printer-8mm-/261835452516?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf69bf064 1/8 of the price :P
[11:05:07] <_methods> yeah you can get them cheap on ebay
[11:05:57] <MrSunshine> dirt cheap realy ... tho the quality might lack some but .. i mainly use bearings like that for extra support berings etc so quality is not realy an issue =)
[11:06:00] <MrSunshine> for me
[11:06:10] <_methods> yeah
[11:06:10] <MrSunshine> for linear rails etc .. go for a real linear rail insted =)
[11:06:57] <MrSunshine> beringboys is half the price in sweden ... and ebay is 1/8 the price of bearingboys ...
[11:07:01] <MrSunshine> sweden feels quite expensive :P
[11:08:23] <MrSunshine> hmm thinking of upgrading the rails on my machine .. tho im undescided ... supported round rail .. or those square rails ...
[11:08:50] <MrSunshine> but my biggest problem is the floor i think ... standing on wooden floor and the whole freakin thing moves when the machine switches direction :P
[11:08:54] <MrSunshine> the floor that is
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[11:33:17] <the_wench> the_wench: Jymmm said !later the_wench
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[12:57:29] <Guest86946> Hi guys. I'm trying to access numbered parameters from an NGC file like I could when using pointers in C: #[5221+#<my_index>] (so I can hand over a "base reference" and use offsets to access the right parameter)
[12:57:33] <Guest86946> Is this possible?
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[13:03:28] <archivist> what is the purpose, there may be another way
[13:13:07] * archivist taps on the screen to see if the mic is on
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[13:14:07] <JT-Shop> logger[mah], log
[13:14:07] <logger[mah]> JT-Shop: Log stored at
http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2015-04-07.html
[13:16:21] <JT-Shop> _methods, 2.25" deep and I use ER collets to hold the drills
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[13:22:47] <_methods> yeah that's pretty deep
[13:23:03] <_methods> guess not too bad for that size hole
[13:23:07] <_methods> 3xd
[13:24:30] <_methods> well if your drills are drilling over you may not need to get a size up
[13:24:40] <Guest86946> @archivist nevermind, found it. `#[5221+3]` really works, only (debug, ) seems to have a problem with that
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[13:27:01] <archivist> Guest86946, ok
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[13:44:33] <JT-Shop> would you peck drill with say 3/8" then drill with 5/8" then 63/64"?
[13:46:56] <_methods> yeah that's probably a good plan
[13:47:33] <archivist> may center drill so the first is in the right place then tend to just find a drill on top of the pile to peck the first attempt
[13:47:37] <_methods> that should be a pretty safe step
[13:48:46] <JT-Shop> ok, I'll start with a 1/2" spotting bit
[13:48:57] <archivist> anybody doing nothing and fancy a page of proof reading
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/NPL_drawings.php
[13:49:02] <_methods> yea definitely spot if you're using HSS
[13:51:12] <_methods> if i'm using carbide drills or inserted drill and the tolerance isn't nasa level i'll skip spotting sometimes
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[13:54:13] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOAA-19#Damage_during_manufacture NASA level precision
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[13:54:34] <_methods> hehe
[13:54:41] <_methods> oops
[13:55:00] <_methods> i thought you bolted it down
[13:55:17] <archivist> no you did
[13:56:21] <SpeedEvil> It's an excellent cautionary tale.
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[14:03:13] <malcom2073> Man, can you imagine hearing about that, and being that tech that removed the bolts
[14:03:19] <malcom2073> and thinking "Um.... didn't I document that?"
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[14:12:24] <ssi> morn
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[16:24:29] <Loetmichel> re from bringing glass to the recycling container... and buying some wood planks top do a rack for the kitchen... its spring after all, cleaning the house ;-)
[16:24:37] <Loetmichel> -p
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[17:15:05] <dirty_d> are you guys making money with your cnc machines?
[17:15:18] <dirty_d> and if so doing jobs or producing some type of product?
[17:15:23] <dirty_d> id like to give it a shot
[17:15:32] <SpeedEvil> I need to get the dies right, and find a source of the right paper, then I can
[17:15:58] <dirty_d> haha, that took me a minute
[17:16:14] <SpeedEvil> Some people in here are doing actual CNC shops
[17:16:23] <SpeedEvil> Using linuxcnc to control stuff.
[17:16:31] <dirty_d> yea, i only have my one machine
[17:16:33] <SpeedEvil> Others are simply doing hobbiest projects
[17:17:01] <dirty_d> i mostly would like to do hobby stuff, but if i can fund the hobby stuff with otehr stuff, that would be great
[17:17:03] <SpeedEvil> And others (me) are just gathering info to do a CNC thingy
[17:17:22] <dirty_d> building a machine?
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[17:17:29] <SpeedEvil> yes
[17:17:35] <dirty_d> from scratch?
[17:17:41] <SpeedEvil> yes
[17:17:52] <dirty_d> how do you plan on doing that, with linear rails and stuff?
[17:18:16] <SpeedEvil> Well...
[17:18:22] <SpeedEvil> A couple of projects.
[17:18:36] <SpeedEvil> A 1.2*2.4m or so router.
[17:18:58] <SpeedEvil> Rigid enough to tollerate ~100kg cutting forces
[17:19:24] <SpeedEvil> I'm using a lot of wood
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[17:19:58] <SpeedEvil> Cast iron is awesome.
[17:20:14] <SpeedEvil> But - wood of a fairly moderately larger section can be as rigid
[17:20:34] <Tom_itx> not as stable
[17:20:44] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[17:21:13] <SpeedEvil> Would I like an inch thick 2.4*1.2m table, with lots of ribbing that can hold .001mm tolerance, ...
[17:21:48] <SpeedEvil> Thermowood is interesting.
[17:22:14] <SpeedEvil> Thirds the hygrometric expanstion coefficient
[17:23:43] <dirty_d> 0.001mm tolerance is is like NASA
[17:23:46] <dirty_d> or better
[17:24:07] <dirty_d> did you mean 0.01?
[17:24:23] <dirty_d> i think that would still be really hard
[17:24:32] <dirty_d> especially because of the size
[17:27:19] <SpeedEvil> Practically, I want to hold ~0.5mm or so over that distance.
[17:27:34] <dirty_d> that should be easy
[17:27:47] <dirty_d> well im not sure if it will if you use wood to build it
[17:28:18] <SpeedEvil> To a degree, I don't care about table flatness to that degree - as the work will conform
[17:28:19] <dirty_d> buy maybe
[17:28:36] <SpeedEvil> It'll be mostly used for cutting sheet-goods.
[17:28:37] <dirty_d> the software can compensate for the squareness and stuff
[17:29:24] <dirty_d> actually it would probably be easier to just adjust it to close to perfect by hand
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[17:35:22] <archivist> dirty_d, I make gears and similar to order, but customers are rare
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[17:35:52] <dirty_d> yea it would have to be something thats hard to buy elsewhere or is unique in some way
[17:36:03] <dirty_d> maybe border on the line of legality, lol
[17:36:27] <dirty_d> but on the legal side of course, lol
[17:36:55] <archivist> I make smaller things than most can
http://gears.archivist.info/
[17:42:01] * SpeedEvil wishes he could buy some gears.
[17:42:55] * archivist points SpeedEvil at HPC gears for cheap
[17:43:45] <SpeedEvil> I want to make a little ~18*90*90mm or so thing that unfolds into a foot-pedal.
[17:43:51] <XXCoder> archivist: how much would one of those small gear be
[17:44:19] <SpeedEvil> It then can provide 40W or so power by stepping repeatedly on it
[17:44:23] <archivist> XXCoder, they can take me a day to setup and make one
[17:44:27] <SpeedEvil> (20W if you're not s fit)
[17:47:47] <XXCoder> so, billion bucks?
[17:47:56] <dirty_d> SpeedEvil, for what?
[17:48:10] <archivist> XXCoder, those verges took a few days of experiments to get it right, was working for ex boss at the time I think he charged a few hundred pounds for one mounted
[17:48:15] <SpeedEvil> dirty_d: portable charger
[17:48:20] <dirty_d> ahhh
[17:48:47] <SpeedEvil> dirty_d: Small battery able to take the ~1/3 duty cycle, and make it continuous (and act like a spring for the motor)
[17:49:28] <XXCoder> archivist: interesting. ever made your own "master art project"?
[17:49:56] <XXCoder> a project that has no reason besides showing "I am damn awesome on this".
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[17:52:41] <archivist> XXCoder, well that contrate gear next to the matchstick is a bit like that, I got a request can I make x, I had a go, that is the result, lunatic went quiet after I mentioned how long it took
[17:53:20] <_methods> i'm pretty sure that merlin clock rebuild qualifies for the how awesome i am award
[17:53:26] <XXCoder> that do look tough
[17:54:02] <XXCoder> wonder if you could make entire pen, including mechism inside
[17:54:07] <archivist> _methods, that is another example of customer going quiet on us
[17:54:12] <_methods> i bet
[17:55:26] <_methods> you had to have some hours in that thing
[17:56:33] <archivist> I did that was also while I was at the previous job, I put the work on the net, boss asked for a stage payment, we heard nothing more
[17:57:04] <_methods> well you got to keep the clock i guess hehe
[17:57:14] <archivist> boss has it
[17:57:37] <archivist> I got milling machine and lathes and
[17:58:18] <XXCoder> whats guy expect? $10 bill? lol
[17:58:50] <archivist> with customers like that he could not afford to employ me any more
[17:59:56] <XXCoder> you has another job now?
[18:00:39] <archivist> no, "trying" to be self employed
[18:02:08] <XXCoder> ok
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[18:12:55] <_methods> wow kickstarter........
[18:13:01] <_methods> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1363754907/brick-lamp-reveal-the-light
[18:15:02] <archivist> rofl milled precisely out of a single piece of solid aluminum block by a Computer Numeric Controlled machine
[18:15:32] <_methods> the stuff on kickstarter is like the stuff they sell on QVC
[18:16:14] <archivist> shite
[18:16:28] <_methods> yeah that
[18:16:29] <_methods> lol
[18:17:02] <dirty_d> hmm
[18:17:08] <dirty_d> maybe i can make a bartender-o-matic
[18:17:08] <archivist> I get a lot more fun out of a dead measuring machine on fleabay
[18:17:29] <_methods> they already have barbot
[18:17:35] <dirty_d> reason i didnt was there were no affordable peristaltic pumps
[18:17:44] <dirty_d> but i could easily make on with my cnc machine
[18:17:48] <dirty_d> well not one
[18:17:48] <_methods> you can make your own pretty easy
[18:17:52] <archivist> work out how it works, work out what is missing, make parts, repair restore
[18:18:13] <_methods> plenty of people make diy peristaltics
[18:18:22] <_methods> using surgical tubing and some large ball bearings
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[18:19:43] <_methods> http://www.instructables.com/id/Inexpensive-easy-to-build-peristaltic-pump/
[18:19:52] <_methods> heh that guy used some wheels and tube
[18:20:07] <Rab> "For $25 backers, we will send you a concrete accessory of your choice either a paper weight or necklace."
[18:20:20] <_methods> pet rock maybe lol
[18:20:46] <archivist> concrete necklace for being a cheapskate
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[18:21:04] <_methods> concrete shoes heheh
[18:22:08] <archivist> used to be a common accessory of the mob
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[18:24:50] <Rab> Metal version: 1500g
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[18:30:41] <dirty_d> trying to work out what diameter tube to use
[18:30:55] <dirty_d> i figure youd want to be able to dispense 250ml in 30 seconds
[18:31:02] <dirty_d> at a reasonable RPM
[18:31:14] <dirty_d> not sure whats the max RPM for that type of pump
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[18:34:01] <_methods> technically you don't have to use peristaltic unless you plan on serving with it in a real establishment
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[18:48:18] <ssi> a cheap peri pump would be a decent 3d printer project
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[18:50:14] <_methods> yeah
[18:50:50] <archivist> and last all of .00001 revolutions
[18:51:05] <ssi> depends how you did it
[18:52:27] <_methods> haha my buddy has been playin a bunch of FTL
[18:52:49] <_methods> he just told me he can't watch star trek anymore cause he wants to yell at teh screen and tell them what to do
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[19:10:31] <Cromaglious> just got my 3,4,5,6,8mm taps, tonight I can start modding the 3040 with tapped holes
[19:13:28] <archivist> wotno 10,12,15 mm taps!
[19:13:56] <XXCoder> 500 mm tap
[19:14:53] <XXCoder> _methods: that kickstarter has nice logo montage too lol
[19:15:01] <_methods> hehe
[19:15:13] <XXCoder> it has logo "whatever" LOL
[19:16:00] <XXCoder> design is cool, but not hundreds of bucks cool.
[19:16:21] <XXCoder> wtf it has nonstandard usb connection
[19:16:26] <XXCoder> why the fuck
[19:17:13] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPKKtvkVAjY
[19:17:31] <Rab> XXCoder, 2.1mm barrel connector is pretty standard for power.
[19:17:44] <XXCoder> hm ok
[19:18:03] <Rab> I don't know why they don't just use a USB jack, though...maybe it doesn't hold up.
[19:18:05] <XXCoder> I guess more realiable connection
[19:18:12] <XXCoder> or easier to secure
[19:23:07] <_methods> anyone in here have a 4th axis on a minimill?
[19:23:28] <_methods> are there any recommended 4th axis setups out there?
[19:23:28] <XXCoder> not me, but yeserday I used 4th axis for first time. interesting indeed
[19:24:42] <_methods> from the looks of the ones i see on ebay i'd probably be better off just making my own
[19:30:38] <archivist> _methods, about the cheapest and has a specification is the Vertex rotary
[19:31:09] <archivist> all the cheap crap have no angular specification
[19:32:08] <archivist> remove handle and add a conversion tube and a motor of some sort
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[19:34:43] <XXCoder> hey furrywolf
[19:34:52] <XXCoder> hows things
[19:35:42] <furrywolf> uncomfortable.
[19:36:56] <XXCoder> oh well
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[19:40:40] <XXCoder> http://www.carsdirect.com/car-repair/how-to-repair-a-windshield-crack-along-the-edge-of-the-windshield
[19:40:50] <XXCoder> wonder if its anywhere near true lol
[19:40:52] <XXCoder> doubtful
[19:41:47] <furrywolf> my experience with crack repair is your best bet is to wait until a cop complains (chances are it'll never happen), then buy a new one.
[19:41:58] <XXCoder> yeah thats my current polan
[19:42:09] <XXCoder> my van has one from bottom to top
[19:42:20] <XXCoder> its holding on by habit basically
[19:42:35] <furrywolf> I've used several windshield repair kits, including a fancy one with UV cure resin, and none of them lasted past the first speedbump.
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[19:43:00] <XXCoder> even when cured long enough?
[19:43:22] <furrywolf> I talked to a windshield repair guy once, and he confirmed that's the expected outcome. what he does to keep cracks from spreading is drill the end of the crack, like you would a cast iron crack repair, and just accept it'll never look good again.
[19:44:24] <furrywolf> he drills them, then uses resin to fill the crack and the hole he drilled. the crack won't stay invisible as soon as you drive, but it'll be less visible, and the drilled hole is what actually stops it from growing.
[19:44:42] <furrywolf> I watched him do it... little diamond bit in a dremel.
[19:45:35] <XXCoder> https://www.ehow.com/how_6309617_fix-windshield-crack-krazy-glue.html
[19:45:45] <XXCoder> bit more realistic. it even says it will evenually wear
[19:46:18] <furrywolf> heh, ehow's ssl cert is still pissing off firefox. why the hell is that ssl anyway?
[19:46:50] * furrywolf removes a pointless "s" and it loads twice as fast, and correctly
[19:47:06] <XXCoder> it just says "this site did not send identification"
[19:47:17] <Rab> I've seen the drill trick recommended before.
[19:47:52] <furrywolf> that's another article written by someone who has NO FUCKING CLUE how a windshield works.
[19:47:57] <furrywolf> get advice from non-spam sources.
[19:48:03] <_methods> archivist: thanks guess i need to keep doing research
[19:48:04] <Rab> In TX, windshield isn't part of the safety inspection: it can even be missing entirely. If the wiper blades are in required condition, you'll pass.
[19:48:30] <XXCoder> Rab: I wonder if car passing inspection would be drivable lol
[19:48:39] <furrywolf> Rab: a friend broke out the windshield on his nissan hardbody when he rolled it... his solution was a pair of oven grilles. keeps the branches out!
[19:48:55] <Rab> XXCoder, cool steamjunk goggles to the rescue.
[19:49:09] <XXCoder> do it state engine is required for one? ;)
[19:49:52] <Rab> Well, it has to pass emissions standards (in this county). Might be difficult to perform the test.
[19:50:09] <furrywolf> no, it's passes easily - it's a zero-emissions vehicle. :P
[19:50:20] <XXCoder> true
[19:50:23] <archivist> _methods The vertex is from taiwan and seems a real quality item, watch the rest of the low cost, I had fun measuring some rotaries because we got some bad gears once
[19:50:28] <XXCoder> zero power but hey zero emissions!
[19:50:43] <_methods> i'll check those out
[19:51:25] <furrywolf> argh, the amount of utterly worthless spam in google results just keeps going up.
[19:51:27] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I once repaired my old car with cellophane tape lol
[19:51:29] * furrywolf misses altavista
[19:52:08] <XXCoder> rock hit and damaged it badly. I didnt have enough money for over a week. glad cops missed it lol.. tape was to keep rain out as well as hold peices together
[19:53:22] <furrywolf> http://windshieldrepairkits.com/technicalmanualPDF.pdf
[19:53:26] <furrywolf> seems non-spam
[19:53:28] <furrywolf> (product manual
[19:54:23] <furrywolf> things like windshield cracks are what cops use to pull you over if they want to check your license, registration, insurance. normally they won't pull you over just for them.
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[19:54:34] <XXCoder> yeah not worth money
[19:55:24] <andypugh> archivist: A 1936 lathe. 14.5PA or 20PA gears, at a guess?
[19:55:28] <furrywolf> in most places it's just a fix-it ticket, so the cops don't get to pocket a large profit.
[19:56:02] <furrywolf> and you hassle them to get it inspected, using more officer time.
[19:56:14] <archivist> andypugh, I would measure :)
[19:56:37] <furrywolf> unlike license, registration, and insurance tickets, which do absolutely nothing to improve road safety, but are hundreds or thousands of dollars of pure profit to stuff in their pockets.
[19:57:56] <furrywolf> as a side windshield-related note, I watched them cut the new one for my jeep... it was interesting. The guy scored both sides, cracked it, dumped lighter fluid in the crack, then lit it on fire.
[19:58:13] <andypugh> archivist: Do you know a good way to measure?
[19:58:30] <archivist> andypugh, take a picture and I can measure
[19:58:31] <furrywolf> the heat in the crack softened the laminate so he could spread it enough to get a razor knife it to cut it.
[19:58:59] <andypugh> I have heard of a cunning method of rolling on plasticine to make a rack then measure the rack
[19:59:41] <XXCoder> fgur, that pdf is interesting
[19:59:46] <archivist> andypugh, this is not on the pcd but shows the method
http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=9277&subject=26611
[20:00:08] <andypugh> I have measured tooth spans according to the normal calcs and get:
[20:00:08] <andypugh> http://pastebin.com/seNFV7b0
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[20:00:51] <furrywolf> XXCoder: that pdf was written by someone who actually has repaired a windshield, not someone trying to bullshit google spam.
[20:00:57] <XXCoder> indeed
[20:02:11] <andypugh> archivist: So, draw on a PCD circle, then measure tangents?
[20:02:52] <andypugh> I wonder how much it really matters for lathe apron feed gears?
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[20:03:09] <archivist> andypugh, actually I should scan an image I have here of a measuring method you could implement on the mill, dti on a rack side and roll the gear on the rotary
[20:03:42] <archivist> yes for screw cutting, that is a source of error
[20:03:43] <andypugh> I think the span measurments strongly suggest 20PA.
[20:04:12] <andypugh> archivist: You don’t cut screws with the feed gears….
[20:04:25] <archivist> just got a thread pitch measuring machine and the NPL doc mentions the error sources
[20:05:03] <archivist> often the same gear types are used in the other trains
[20:06:46] <archivist> is this for the Rivett
[20:07:11] <andypugh> Yes. Well, not actually for my Rivett, another owner has had his make a right mess of themselves.
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[20:08:55] <archivist> I updated my hob page a bit, now calculating the dp, mod, cp and measured (where done) to compare them
[20:12:14] <andypugh> I showed you my Glade/Python hobbing screen that does the calcs?
[20:12:48] <archivist> yes
[20:13:34] <andypugh> It’s not pretty, but it does what I need.
[20:13:58] <archivist> I was measuring a hob the other day and tooth pitch was .0613 in but was marked .0256 cp!
[20:14:28] <archivist> I have some more of the same correctly marked
[20:14:44] <andypugh> Not even a multi-start hob then?
[20:14:53] <andypugh> (Do they even exist?)
[20:15:02] <archivist> no, it is a funny tooth form too
[20:15:38] <andypugh> Spline cutter?
[20:15:50] <archivist> dont think you need specials for that just rotate more
[20:16:19] <archivist> could be spline but .0613 cp is small
[20:16:49] <archivist> stubby teeth and not straight sided
[20:17:02] <andypugh> Watch splines :-)
[20:17:36] <archivist> more like electricity meters or car speedos, I think the came from Smiths
[20:18:29] <archivist> I think my barber colman is ex smiths too
[20:24:09] <furrywolf> I've never cut gears... it's something I'll need to do one of these days.
[20:24:32] <XXCoder> always wanted to make a gravity clock
[20:27:51] <furrywolf> a local restaurant here used to have a fake pendulum clock. it always annoyed me.
[20:28:30] <furrywolf> it had a complete moving pendulum... that was completely unsynchronized with the quartz clock movement over it.
[20:29:45] <XXCoder> lol
[20:32:59] <furrywolf> I'm getting a slightly-old regulator clock from my grandfather's stuff... 31 days on one winding, so not that old. heh.
[20:33:10] <XXCoder> nice
[20:33:17] <XXCoder> I once made one using lego
[20:33:25] <XXCoder> well windup mechism anyway
[20:33:33] <XXCoder> it could last 3 hours so still useless
[20:33:48] <XXCoder> other guy did 24 hours one
[20:33:58] <archivist> erm 31 days...... that usually means Korean clock
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[20:35:54] <furrywolf> it's a relatively modern, simple clock... separate springs for clock and chimes. if I remember right, it's a little sticky, as he was complaining it only lasted two weeks these days.
[20:37:44] <archivist> they wear quite a bit too
[20:38:17] <furrywolf> it kept excellent time, at least.
[20:38:50] <furrywolf> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/96968198197096527/ similar to that one (probably not identical - I haven't seen it in a while...)
[20:41:38] <furrywolf> do you oil clocks like that, or blast everything clean with degreaser and let them run metal-on-metal?
[20:41:52] <XXCoder> http://www.woodenclocks.co.uk/
[20:42:09] <XXCoder> wild guess is degrease, clean, oil?
[20:42:37] <furrywolf> the only thing I've ever tried was a watch, and I found even the lightest oil made it suck, while brake cleaner made it work. :)
[20:42:54] <XXCoder> strange
[20:43:35] <furrywolf> http://www.woodenclocks.co.uk/wpimages/wp1ea2cf8c_06.png ... that's supposed to be a clock hand, right? lol
[20:44:06] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir6KkKH0LJw
[20:44:32] <XXCoder> strange clock there fur
[20:45:49] <furrywolf> hrmm... I bet it'd be pretty easy to hide a radio clock receiver inside a pendulum weight, that combined with an accelerometer, measures its ongoing frequency against the time standard, and adjusts a little weight up and down to make the mechanical clock keep perfect time...
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[20:46:37] <XXCoder> lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzznSFmz5rM
[20:46:41] <XXCoder> most gears arent circle
[20:49:39] <archivist> silly music, cannot hear the scraping
[20:49:53] <furrywolf> I had fun once using non-circular bicycle sprockets for things other than crank chain rings... as long as you phase them properly, you can make them work...
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[20:50:30] <XXCoder> yeah I bet. doesn't it also alter ratio constantly?
[20:51:03] <furrywolf> archivist: you archive documents online, right? I have a bunch of stuff I was going to scan and post one of these days... might send you a copy for your collection too. a collection of ~20 documents on original edison batteries. specs, maintenance, user manuals, etc.
[20:52:19] <archivist> furrywolf, I have dead trees, then scan when I get a request
[20:52:50] <archivist> not many have links to download because not scanned :)
[20:53:10] <archivist> it takes ages
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[20:53:53] <XXCoder> archivist: heard of book scanner?
[20:54:14] <archivist> heard of poverty ?
[20:54:29] <XXCoder> well I didnt say it was expensive lol
[20:54:31] <archivist> and they dont do fold outs
[20:54:34] <furrywolf> yay, I'm not the only one with that problem.
[20:55:16] <furrywolf> although, as a note, there's some very good DIY book scanner plans online, complete with open-source software to do page decurling, etc.
[20:55:24] <archivist> today I transcribed a few pages
[20:55:33] <XXCoder> furrywolf: yeah that was what I was thinking
[20:55:48] <XXCoder> whats still very hard is auto page turn
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[20:56:13] <furrywolf> yep
[20:56:23] <archivist> as far as I know not seen a diagram unfolder
[20:56:49] <XXCoder> archivist: wonder if cnc pick and placer would be able to do it
[20:57:15] <archivist> no, they cant see how it was folded
[20:57:37] * furrywolf suspects folded diagrams make up a relatively small portion of printed material
[20:57:42] <archivist> some just has to be hand done
[20:58:01] <archivist> instruction manuals!
[20:59:04] <furrywolf> I don't think there's any folded diagrams in my collection of Edison battery literature. :)
[20:59:05] <archivist> I have a request in today, I have 3 copies, offered the person a real original, no, he wants a scan!
[20:59:15] * furrywolf will probably just stick them on a flatbed scanner one page at a time
[20:59:38] <XXCoder> archivist: true, it wouldnt be able to see it.
[20:59:45] <XXCoder> though as page turner HMMMM
[21:00:07] <XXCoder> one placer and another cnc arm to hold other side down as page is being turned
[21:00:15] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/diva/lucastp1.html
[21:00:19] <XXCoder> harware easy, software probably unobtainable
[21:00:29] <furrywolf> there was a really nice collection of handwritten edison battery documents on ebay once, but it went for a price with several more zeroes than I'd have considered. they were test results from using them for submarine power, so I guess the money-having military collector types were into them.
[21:01:32] <furrywolf> XXCoder: my plan for an auto page turner was a few suction cups, a cam mechanism, and an air blast mid-turn on the egde of the pages to help unstick stuck pages.
[21:01:43] <furrywolf> no cnc needed. :P
[21:02:02] <archivist> I have jag engine test records
[21:02:13] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/diva/systrondonner1626.html#p=97&z=1
[21:02:28] <furrywolf> did they fail as badly in tests as they did in the real world? :P
[21:03:00] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/user/AgentJayZ is awesome
[21:03:10] <SpeedEvil> Working jet engine mechanic channel
[21:03:13] <archivist> may have had the odd broken drill in an oilway
[21:03:33] <SpeedEvil> The shaft couplers are mental
[21:03:52] <ssi> half my friends are jet mechanics :P
[21:03:56] <SpeedEvil> - if you need to be able to dissasembe and reassemble a jet engine without having to rebalance it they have to be
[21:04:08] <archivist> hirth coupling iirc
[21:04:35] * furrywolf concludes ssi has two friends
[21:04:42] <ssi> at most
[21:04:58] <ssi> I seriously know like sixteen jet mechanics :P
[21:05:37] <ssi> in fact I know of three people who have cutaway engine or APU displays in their personal hangars
[21:05:59] <XXCoder> furrywolf: nice
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[21:07:13] <XXCoder> whooo
http://the-digital-reader.com/2015/04/07/dasungs-13-3-e-ink-monitor-goes-up-for-pre-order-950/
[21:07:13] <furrywolf> also, I took apart a machine once that used suction to apply labels to packages... it had no vacuum pumps.
[21:07:19] <furrywolf> or valves
[21:08:04] <furrywolf> instead, the cam mechanism had a couple small automotive airbags linked to it, that the cam mechanism would pull on while picking up the label, and push on while sticking the label.
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[21:08:10] <furrywolf> I found that very clever. :)
[21:08:23] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:08:36] <XXCoder> no pumps to wear out
[21:08:57] <archivist> bags wear too
[21:09:04] <XXCoder> yeah but longer life
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[21:09:34] <archivist> a printer I used to work on had a bladder under the head to nod it forward
[21:09:37] <Deejay> gn8
[21:10:00] <furrywolf> the machine was, in fact, scarrily complex. EVERYTHING ran off a giant cam. it had one big motor running the cam through a 50:1 reduction gearbox, and everything was a follower on the cam. picking up packages, moving them, sealing them, applying labels, etc, etc... all mechanical off the one cam. way, way, way too many moving parts. It was full of chains - and all of them reciprocated. none of them moved a full loop.
[21:10:01] <XXCoder> archivist: even solid sphere wears down if its used
[21:10:13] <XXCoder> very long life but everything wears with use.
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[21:11:28] <furrywolf> from what I could gather, it stuck fried chickens on a piece of styrofoam, shrinkwrapped them, then stuck a label on top. at least that's what I could tell from the remaining parts, and the fact it was filled with dried chicken fat and "rotissary chicken $3.99" labels. :)
[21:11:41] <XXCoder> lol
[21:12:36] <furrywolf> I got several nice buckets of parts out of it. chains, sprockets, four small airbags, shafts, bearings, 50:1 worm box, etc.
[21:12:44] <furrywolf> $0.50/lb :)
[21:12:52] <XXCoder> and lots labels!
[21:12:56] <XXCoder> dont forget that ;)
[21:13:47] <furrywolf> ... $950 for a 13" monitor? you can get a really nice high-end graphics monitor for that...
[21:13:55] <Cromaglious> sorta like the old screw machines... Everything was cam driven
[21:13:59] <furrywolf> no, I left the labels stuck to the remains. lol
[21:14:01] <XXCoder> furrywolf: its first generation
[21:14:30] <XXCoder> but yeah im not buying, just glad theres now great epaper montiors coming, and I REALLY want to have one.
[21:14:52] <XXCoder> one of examples of perfect use is this irc screen
[21:15:55] <furrywolf> I fail to see a use for such a screen... ultra-low-power applications?
[21:16:16] <XXCoder> and anti-eye tired when reading long text
[21:16:23] <furrywolf> why would you want to irc on it? it's not backlit, the contrast is shit, the resolution is shit, and if you're in a busy channel, it'll scroll faster than the refresh...
[21:16:41] <XXCoder> heh monochrome its as fast as led
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[21:17:08] <furrywolf> note how badly it's washed out by ambient lights in their demo
[21:17:21] <furrywolf> e-ink is great for when you're saving power, but I don't see it being useful for most applications.
[21:17:32] <XXCoder> yeah I didnt say it would be all that
[21:17:42] <XXCoder> just useful in certain uses
[21:19:34] <XXCoder> laters
[21:30:18] <furrywolf> https://sites.google.com/site/canadair50otherproducts/B47lge.jpg that's just so... wrong. lol
[21:33:19] <furrywolf> ssi: how would you like to fly something with thrust "slightly" off-center? :)
[21:33:42] <ssi> furrywolf:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_Boomerang
[21:35:55] <furrywolf> that's pretty scary, yes.
[21:36:22] <furrywolf> but that doesn't have 30,000lbs thrust stuck only on one side of the tail. :)
[21:36:28] <ssi> true!
[21:37:05] <ssi> actually, almost all piston singles have the thrustline slightly off center
[21:37:18] <furrywolf> the image I pasted isn't slightly.
[21:37:23] <ssi> yeah I know
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[21:43:25] <furrywolf> random trivia of the day: Each turbine blade in a rolls-royce trent extracts over a half a megawatt from the gas stream.
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