#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-04-03

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[00:00:02] <LeelooMinai> Not sure if I could fix that one
[00:00:13] <LeelooMinai> But it's a good plan I guess
[00:00:24] <LeelooMinai> I only need to find that switch thing
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[00:01:22] <LeelooMinai> I guess I could make it myself with solid state rely controlled by whatever.
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[00:06:55] <furrywolf> if you get a snmp-manageable version, you can turn the beeper off with software. :)
[00:07:00] <furrywolf> I did that on mine.
[00:08:32] <LeelooMinai> Right, seems I can do that: http://i.imgur.com/awP2XNl.png
[00:09:29] <LeelooMinai> So that would mean I mainly need to buy one of those mppt charge controllers
[00:09:48] <LeelooMinai> I watched some video though of a teardown of a CHinese ones...
[00:10:52] <furrywolf> be warned many of the chinese ones are fake.
[00:10:56] <furrywolf> as in, they're not mppt.
[00:11:07] <LeelooMinai> And there was this potted rectangle in the centre with "mppt chang wang" or whatever on top. So the guy broke off the potting substance and inside there was a 555 ic and that was it...
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[00:11:56] <furrywolf> yes. those are fake. :P
[00:12:24] <LeelooMinai> RIght, I would be pissed if I got one of those and looked inside
[00:12:50] <Jymmm> don't look inside?
[00:13:06] <LeelooMinai> Right, oblivion is a bliss
[00:13:33] <furrywolf> Jymmm: also, don't connect it to batteries or solar panels.
[00:13:34] <Jymmm> https://genasun.com/products-store/mppt-solar-charge-controllers/
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[00:14:50] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I think some kind of monitoring would be nice too - throughmodbus or something
[00:14:51] <Jymmm> One thing about genason is there is no measurable EMI/RFI from them.
[00:15:04] <furrywolf> one thing to look at is the input voltage. a mppt charge controller will allow using a string voltage much higher than the battery voltage. for example, my outback will let me connect 150V of panels to a 12V battery.
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[00:15:21] <LeelooMinai> Because having solar panels and not having a means to actually see how they contributed would be a bit lame
[00:15:28] <furrywolf> no measurable = fake. everything is measurable. :P
[00:15:49] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: if you use a ups with software monitoring, just log how long it's on battery, and the load during that time.
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[00:16:14] <LeelooMinai> Yes, if I could somehow get power data from it
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[00:16:31] <furrywolf> all of the smart-ups series you can.
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[00:17:00] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/apcupsd.status there's an example dump, from the ups at my last house.
[00:17:09] <LeelooMinai> Right, I would then need to buy one of those and they are probably not cheap
[00:17:28] <LeelooMinai> Unless I can somehow get that data from mine.
[00:17:50] <LeelooMinai> That's the linux apc monitoring app right?
[00:18:03] <furrywolf> I got mine free. they're often close to free once the internal batteries fail.
[00:18:06] <LeelooMinai> I think I run one on my Linux machine
[00:18:10] <furrywolf> yes
[00:18:27] <LeelooMinai> hwat's the command do display this?
[00:18:34] <furrywolf> well, it wasn't free, I had to spend gas and like $5 in parkway tolls...
[00:18:46] <furrywolf> depends on which monitor you have installed
[00:19:07] <furrywolf> that's the status file from apcupsd... I don't recall where it sticks it. haven't used it in a while.
[00:19:47] <furrywolf> for the snmp one I used here I wrote a little script to scrape the telnet interface because it gave more information than the snmp interface, for who-knows-why.
[00:19:58] <furrywolf> and then I switched to specific solar products
[00:20:15] <furrywolf> FX port 1, inv 0.0A, chg 0.0A, buy 0.0A, sell 0.0A, load 0.0A, in 0.0V, out 121.0V, batt 30.0V, mode 2, ac 0, error 0x00, warning 0x00, misc 0x08.
[00:20:16] <furrywolf> MX port 2, chg 18.0A, pv 0.0A, batt 30.2V, pv 33.0V, daily 0.0kWh 9999.0Ah, aux 0, error 0x00, charger 2.
[00:20:16] <furrywolf> FN port 3, A 12.3A (enabled), B 0.0A (disabled), C 0.0A (disabled), batt 29.7V, btemp 99.0C, SOC 100.0%, flags 0x00, extra id 10, data 5.46.
[00:20:16] <furrywolf> not from a UPS. :)
[00:20:29] <LeelooMinai> Yes, that's a good plan - I can write whatever is required as long as I will be able to get at the communication protocol
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[00:21:15] <furrywolf> or just use a pre-written monitoring program
[00:22:49] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Are you using that mppt controler you linked?
[00:23:05] <furrywolf> bbl, time for work
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[00:55:29] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: yes
[00:57:03] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, they have a bit too small power ratings
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[01:00:50] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: how many watts?
[01:01:04] <LeelooMinai> I have two 210 watt panels
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[01:01:43] <Jymmm> https://genasun.com/all-products/solar-charge-controllers/gvb-8a-pb-solar-boost-controller/
[01:01:54] <Jymmm> that 350
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[01:02:16] <Jymmm> 12v panels?
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[01:02:28] <LeelooMinai> 38V
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[01:02:55] <Jymmm> and your battery back is?
[01:03:03] <Jymmm> bank*
[01:03:18] <LeelooMinai> I am pretty sure I will just use normal UPS 12V batteries
[01:03:31] <Jymmm> gelcells?
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[01:04:01] <Jymmm> cause the price was right, I'm using a marine battery =)
[01:04:06] <LeelooMinai> Some kind of sealed acid - they may be AGM
[01:04:15] <Jymmm> yeah, I understand
[01:04:41] <Jymmm> but are you going to wire them 12 24 or 48 volt?
[01:05:37] <LeelooMinai> Not sure yet - depends on what UPS I will manage to modify - not sure if they are all 12V
[01:05:40] <Jymmm> I had one ups that used 8x 12V@9AH batteries, wired first to 24V, then to 48V
[01:05:59] <LeelooMinai> Right, it will be either 12V or 24V max in my case
[01:06:17] <Jymmm> what voltage are your loads?
[01:06:27] <LeelooMinai> I think the bigger one had two 12V ones in series
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[01:06:36] <LeelooMinai> 110V
[01:06:45] <Jymmm> Well, it's acombination of series/parallel wiring
[01:07:19] <LeelooMinai> Right, but it had two smaller 12V batteries just in series, so it must want 24V
[01:08:00] <Jymmm> Yeah
[01:08:10] <LeelooMinai> I think the smaller one I have may be 12V
[01:08:29] <Jymmm> This was a 3U 2500VA UPS
[01:08:50] <LeelooMinai> Right, it's one of those bigger ones
[01:09:31] <Jymmm> and a bitch to rack mount =)
[01:10:40] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: If your loads are 110V, and only 400W panels, are these just lights?
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[01:11:18] <LeelooMinai> I plan to use this for "assistance" power for my pcs in the basement - one runs all the time, and two run during the day
[01:11:52] <Jymmm> how many watts does just one of these PCs use?
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[01:12:23] <LeelooMinai> The small one probably not much - my guess is less than $100 and the other two probably $200
[01:12:31] <LeelooMinai> E, forget the $:)
[01:12:36] <LeelooMinai> I meant watt
[01:12:43] <Jymmm> =)
[01:12:55] <Jymmm> pure off-grid?
[01:13:21] <Jymmm> I know you said assist, bbut I'm not sure how that would work with a ups
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[01:14:16] <LeelooMinai> We had ddiscussion with furrywolf above. Basically the plan is to have voltage monitor on the batteries and disconnecting the ups input when the voltage on batteries is good, so it uses them and mains otherwise
[01:15:23] <Jymmm> APC brand UPS constantly monitor the batteries. Be ready for it to setoff alarms =)
[01:15:43] <LeelooMinai> So UPS would be used/abused as a kind of inverter + transfer switch combination I guess
[01:15:59] <LeelooMinai> Right, it may require modifying
[01:16:37] <Jymmm> There's not much to modify, they have minimal circuitry inside them
[01:16:46] <Jymmm> weird, I know.
[01:16:53] <LeelooMinai> Well, they have some kind of microcontroller on them for sure
[01:17:26] <LeelooMinai> I hope they did not code something there that will disable the UPS if it cannot charge the battery
[01:17:38] <Jymmm> Well... yeah, kinda. But it's not as straight forward as one might think. Customs IC's and such.
[01:17:49] <LeelooMinai> Because I don't want ups and the mppt controller to charge at once...
[01:18:44] <Jymmm> Eh, just wire a contactor to the LVD of the controller
[01:18:47] <LeelooMinai> For the switch part I will probably use something like raspberry pi + some kind of adc attachement and solid state rely or maybe something that has adc built in
[01:19:13] <LeelooMinai> LVD is low voltage disconnect?
[01:19:16] <Jymmm> yes
[01:19:37] <Jymmm> I say a contactor as you might be switching 100A at the time
[01:20:06] <LeelooMinai> Is this some kind of inrush current?
[01:20:07] <Jymmm> even if the UPS isn't charging, it is powering the load
[01:20:16] <LeelooMinai> Because the panels are only 8A each
[01:20:20] <Jymmm> No, the load attached to the UPS
[01:21:05] <Jymmm> APC UPS use the battery to "smooth" transit spikes on the line
[01:21:10] <LeelooMinai> Wait, but my PCs are surely not going to suck in 100A...
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[01:21:41] <Jymmm> That's just what the fuse was, 100A in the UPS I had
[01:21:55] <LeelooMinai> That sounds a bit extreme to me:)
[01:22:20] <Jymmm> I still have the fuse and harness cables =)
[01:23:13] <Jymmm> If mains dips to 105V, the UPS will use the batteries to bring the load to 110V
[01:23:52] <LeelooMinai> So maybe that 100A is for DC load from batteries?
[01:24:03] <Jymmm> OH yeah, DC only
[01:24:24] <Jymmm> not 100A AC =)
[01:24:28] <LeelooMinai> A, that makes more sense - they are lower voltage so will need to provide more amps
[01:25:25] <Jymmm> So if a UPS uses the battereis to contol spikes, I"m not sure what it would do if you have the USP disconnected form the batteies while they are being charged via solar.
[01:25:54] <Jymmm> I think you canjust change that in the control panel, but I don't know.
[01:26:02] <Jymmm> via software
[01:26:08] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I think I want more to disable possibilty of ups chargin the batteries
[01:26:28] <LeelooMinai> Not anything related to taking power from them
[01:27:21] <Jymmm> just using the UPS as an inverter
[01:27:36] <LeelooMinai> inverter + transfer switch
[01:27:46] <LeelooMinai> automatic transfer switch even
[01:28:10] <Jymmm> transer when? pwr outage?
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[01:29:22] <Jymmm> http://strike.coloradolinux.com/~sjg/solar-assisted-UPS.html
[01:29:24] <LeelooMinai> No, as I wrote, I will control connecting/disconnecting the UPS from mains. When batteries are well charged, I will be disconnecting UPS from mains, so it uses batteries, and when they go to, say, 80%, I will be connecting UPS to mains.
[01:29:50] <LeelooMinai> Right, that seems about the same idea
[01:30:27] <Jymmm> and where does the solar fit inn this picture?
[01:30:56] <LeelooMinai> It charges the batteries? :)
[01:31:49] <Jymmm> and how big is your battery bank?
[01:32:25] <LeelooMinai> I think this should not matter much actually, since the system can switch between batteries and mains
[01:32:46] <Jymmm> Battereis dont chage in 15 minutes
[01:32:51] <LeelooMinai> So if the batteries will go a bit low, no problem - it will just connect mains to ups and it should kick in
[01:33:10] <Jymmm> batteeies take hours to charge.
[01:33:45] <Jymmm> Those 210W panels are rated during FULL SUN
[01:34:17] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but does it matter? As I said, if the batteries go low, it will switch to mains.
[01:34:22] <Jymmm> at 8am you might only get 20W
[01:35:28] <Jymmm> Well, if you are only doing solar for that >81% and goto mains otherwise, no. Other than you will be killing batteries quickly.
[01:36:12] <LeelooMinai> I will not draw any power if the batteries are lower than some threshold.
[01:36:26] <LeelooMinai> Not sure what it will be- %80 or whatever is best for batteries.
[01:36:40] <Jymmm> But you are adding charge cycles to the batteries
[01:37:03] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but I undestand that only if you go very low that is a problem.
[01:37:42] <Jymmm> Well, you NEVER want a AGM below 11.1v (?)
[01:38:17] <Jymmm> but think of driving a car 5 minutes a day at 100MPH
[01:38:36] <Jymmm> as opposesd to 2 hours a day at 60MPH
[01:38:48] <LeelooMinai> Yes, so I will not let them to go less that some specific voltage - that's the plan
[01:39:21] <Jymmm> Just keep a CLOSE on on the water levels
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[01:39:37] <Jymmm> watch^
[01:40:07] <LeelooMinai> Right, I am sure I will have to learn a bit about the batteries I will be using.
[01:40:07] <Jymmm> even on SEALED battereis )
[01:40:43] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: http://batteryuniversity.com/
[01:41:14] <Jymmm> EXCELLENT resource
[01:41:26] <furrywolf> "<Jymmm> APC brand UPS constantly monitor the batteries. Be ready for it to setoff alarms =)" I can attest that the ups does NOT care what the batteries do, at all.
[01:42:12] <furrywolf> easiest way to prevent charging would be a high-current low Vf schottky pointing away from the batteries. :)
[01:42:31] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Well, they must monitor them to know how/when to charge them, no?
[01:42:34] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Specificaly http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/
[01:42:43] <furrywolf> 210W panels, in canada, are about 20W, I'd figure...
[01:43:00] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: at least the ones I've used just try a constant voltage/constant current charging regime, nothing fancy.
[01:43:30] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Well, so I thought, but weirdly Canada/Ontario is pretty good in terms of insolation.
[01:43:52] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Apparently just because it's cold somehwere, doesn't mean that you have bad place for solar.
[01:43:58] <furrywolf> don't use sealed batteries unless you really have to. flooded are much more suitable for doing low-cost projects.
[01:44:07] <furrywolf> cold is good. it's the lack of sun that's bad.
[01:44:37] <furrywolf> panels put out substantially more power when cold
[01:45:22] <furrywolf> iff you have a mppt charge controller.
[01:45:28] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: This is great to play with solar panels and batteries as you can see volta/amps/watts consumed, total http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__Turnigy_130A_Watt_Meter_and_Power_Analyzer.html
[01:45:58] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: you can even use it to charge batteries
[01:46:15] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: test loads, etc
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[01:46:56] <LeelooMinai> Right, seems useful - would be super useful if it had some kind of data output...
[01:47:10] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: it's not a logger
[01:47:13] <furrywolf> I have one like that. be warned the shunt is in the negative side, not the positive side, so you can't use it anywhere you might get a ground path around it.
[01:47:43] <furrywolf> also, the 130A rating is bullshit. it's 128A for about .128 seconds.
[01:48:16] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Take one of your solar panels inline with that connected to a series of DC fans. then you can see the REAL wattage output of your panels based on top of day/year.
[01:48:21] <furrywolf> no component anywhere in the current path can handle 130A for more than a second.
[01:48:45] <Jymmm> s/top/time/
[01:49:06] <furrywolf> want to see what 16AWG wire does at 130A? just believe their specs. :P
[01:49:07] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: This is insolation curve: http://www.applet-magic.com/insolation01.gif
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[01:49:50] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: in theory, that graph perfectly matches reality.
[01:50:37] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Well, it's based on the sun position. My point is that I am I think at -48 deg in Canada, so it's pretty good place actually
[01:51:18] <furrywolf> right, but there's more than sun position to insolation. weather is a large factor.
[01:51:32] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Test for yourself, reality and reports rarly match
[01:51:37] <furrywolf> http://pv.nrcan.gc.ca/ try that, see if they have better for your location
[01:51:44] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's not like in the summer we have no clear sky here:)
[01:51:52] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: testing is easy
[01:52:05] <furrywolf> yes, it is. canada is a grey drizzly miserable hellhole. :P
[01:52:36] <furrywolf> what province are you in?
[01:52:47] <LeelooMinai> I realize that theory != reality, but I checked tables for average insolation by cities
[01:52:55] <LeelooMinai> Ontario
[01:53:04] <furrywolf> and city/area?
[01:53:23] <LeelooMinai> It has 110001300 on that map - close to Toronto
[01:53:28] <LeelooMinai> 1100-1200
[01:53:39] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: If you don't test it yourself, don't be disappointed after you spend craploads and it doesn't work as epected
[01:53:53] <LeelooMinai> I am not spending craploads - it's more of a hobby project
[01:54:12] <Jymmm> It's the nickle and dime stuff that adds up
[01:54:25] <furrywolf> http://pv.nrcan.gc.ca/index.php?n=1752&m=u&lang=e
[01:54:25] <Jymmm> not the BIG purchases.
[01:54:39] <LeelooMinai> I need small prioject like this to gather the data, too
[01:55:14] <LeelooMinai> Right 1100-1200 annual - it's not that bad
[01:56:01] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: That's what I'm doing. Just using my setup as a test.
[01:56:15] <LeelooMinai> Yes, first I need a setup though:)
[01:56:16] <furrywolf> not that great either. :)
[01:56:25] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: I'm in it for $800 and only 15W =)
[01:56:32] <LeelooMinai> lol
[01:57:26] <Jymmm> cabling, connectors, this, this, etc. it adds up
[01:57:42] <Jymmm> go from these batteries to those batteries, etc
[01:57:45] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, I have a resonable plan now I think to do this cheaply
[01:58:03] <LeelooMinai> For cables I plan to use RV cables - I can get them for reasonable price in one of the stores here
[01:58:11] <furrywolf> "The models used are based on position (longitude, latitude) and precipitation (used as a surrogate for cloudiness)." ... precipitation is NOT a surrogate for cloudiness. it can be cloudy without precipitation. lol
[01:58:13] <LeelooMinai> FOr DC that is
[01:58:19] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: what are RV Cables?
[01:58:37] <LeelooMinai> Apparently cables those RV cars use for DC power
[01:58:50] <Jymmm> jumper cables?
[01:58:55] <LeelooMinai> You know, where they have rooms inside and go for camping
[01:59:29] <LeelooMinai> I mean cables like those: http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/10-gauge-25-ft-primary-wire/A-p8216848e;jsessionid=0sB2oVToL0tutL6lQHgezNYC.pal-prod-com3
[01:59:37] <LeelooMinai> They are cheap and have big gauge
[01:59:49] <LeelooMinai> Rated for small DC voltages only, but that's ok
[01:59:50] <furrywolf> 10awg isn't big
[02:00:15] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's just an example. THough for 2x8A from panels I don't need bigger ones
[02:00:22] <furrywolf> my inverter is wired with 2/0, and the batteries with 4/0...
[02:00:41] <Jymmm> 210W / 38V = 5.5A
[02:00:48] <Jymmm> DC
[02:00:56] <LeelooMinai> I looked at what gauges I need - 10 is more than enough
[02:01:21] <LeelooMinai> Yes, 8A is max the panels are rated for or something like that - I just use it as a worse case
[02:01:57] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Um, I use 4ga just for my inverter alone.
[02:02:07] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: and that's only 5ft
[02:02:14] <furrywolf> yes, you should always size your wire for the short-circuit current, so things don't melt.
[02:02:23] <LeelooMinai> Well, ok, but that doesn't mean it's not overkill:)
[02:02:40] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: 4ga gets warm, underkill actually
[02:03:25] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Remember what I said abut 100A DC fuse?
[02:03:29] <LeelooMinai> I am talking about cables solar - mppt controller
[02:03:43] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: how long?
[02:04:06] <furrywolf> they don't seem to sell heavy cable at that website
[02:04:09] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I think they will be maybe 5 m maybe 6
[02:04:22] <LeelooMinai> So sub 20 ft
[02:04:27] <Jymmm> 5 meters from the panel to contorller?
[02:04:32] <LeelooMinai> Yes
[02:04:43] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: and form controller to battery bank?
[02:04:54] <Jymmm> from*
[02:05:00] <LeelooMinai> Well, that will be close, so I will find something else for that
[02:05:12] <LeelooMinai> Maybe some jumper wire stuff
[02:05:15] <furrywolf> I have 4AWG from my panels to my controller... it should be thicker, but that's what I had handy.
[02:05:22] <LeelooMinai> Whatever will ve most cost-effective
[02:05:57] <LeelooMinai> I think cable losses sub 3% are considered ok
[02:05:58] <furrywolf> if you buy jumper cables or car audio cable, be warned fake wire is the norm from china these days.
[02:06:00] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: PLEASE have fuses and a fire extinguisher on hand
[02:06:17] <furrywolf> yeah, my 4AWG wire I seem to recall I worked out to 5% at peak sun, and decided it was good enough.
[02:06:40] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Ok, but I assume you are talking more A from panels - how much is that?
[02:07:22] <furrywolf> chinese jumper cables and audio wire is undersized (i.e. it might be labeled 4AWG, but actually be 8AWG), and often copper-plated aluminum instead of solid copper.
[02:07:43] <furrywolf> I get around 55A from my panels in peak sun. it would be higher, but I only have a 60A charge controller, which limits output during peak sun.
[02:07:48] <LeelooMinai> Yes, no, the ones there are tinned copper
[02:08:09] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Right, so as you can see for me 8 gauge is good enough
[02:08:25] <LeelooMinai> I think I calculated this and it was between 2 or 3% loss
[02:09:49] <LeelooMinai> Will stuff them into something similar I guess: http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/1-in-x-25-ft-split-flex-wire-loom/A-p8218844e
[02:10:17] <LeelooMinai> So they are better shielded from environment and it should work, I think
[02:10:38] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: split loom tubing is NOT UV proof
[02:10:56] <LeelooMinai> The cables will mostly run under my deck, so it should be okl
[02:11:10] <Jymmm> k
[02:11:25] <LeelooMinai> I am more woried about some creatures trying to eat the cable:)
[02:11:43] <Jymmm> non conductive conduit is cheap
[02:11:52] <Jymmm> grey pvc
[02:11:56] <furrywolf> creatures will eat cable that is in anything other than metallic conduit.
[02:12:59] <LeelooMinai> Well, the RV people use those looms...
[02:13:09] <LeelooMinai> And they often park in some areas with wildlife
[02:13:44] <furrywolf> and for some animals, even condiut isn't enough. I had a bear get in my garbage once, and it bit clean through steel cans. :P
[02:13:53] <LeelooMinai> You guys really try to find some way of imposing unavoidable doom on my project, don't you:)
[02:14:22] <furrywolf> I think jymm does, yes. :P
[02:14:27] <LeelooMinai> I almost wait for someone to say that a bear will eat those cables:)
[02:15:19] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Here's the thing, you can do whatever you want to, just don't say I didn't tell you so.
[02:15:48] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Murphy is a dead man when I catch him.
[02:15:59] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I will remember that there will be no sun, the installation will go on fire, the cables will overheat and be eaten by wildlife:)
[02:18:52] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Please do, and dont forget to send pics... http://oi51.tinypic.com/2eanmvd.jpg
[02:19:31] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Why did you do that? :p
[02:19:52] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: That was someone who didn't listen to me
[02:20:00] <LeelooMinai> Right, right...
[02:20:24] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Here's 30 seconds and no fire extinguisher http://oi37.tinypic.com/sqh6r7.jpg A $30K USD boo boo
[02:20:55] <LeelooMinai> What is that thing?
[02:21:02] <Jymmm> a laser engraver
[02:21:05] <Jymmm> or was.
[02:21:21] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I think someone here did that... ss-something?
[02:21:28] <Jymmm> she walked away to answer the door
[02:21:32] <LeelooMinai> Forgot the nick
[02:22:11] <Jymmm> to sign for a UPS package actually.
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[02:22:43] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: So this "doom" you speak of comes from first hand knowledge
[02:23:04] <LeelooMinai> Yes, people put stuff on fire, but not all of them:)
[02:23:21] <Jymmm> yeah, the rest die.
[02:23:32] <Jymmm> no probleme there actually.
[02:23:33] <LeelooMinai> If I burn my house, I will send you a postcard with a pic:)
[02:23:49] <Jymmm> promise?
[02:24:16] <LeelooMinai> I will try not to though - so don't wait for it.
[02:25:42] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Realize I'm not saying do do it, I'm just saying dont do it stupidly.
[02:26:03] <LeelooMinai> I am not
[02:26:29] <Jymmm> fuses and a fire extinguisher
[02:27:00] <Jymmm> and marshmellows
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[02:30:18] <the_wench> skunksleep: tjtr33 said tjtr33 pm'd you 02apr2015
[02:30:21] <renesis> you aint electronics superpro until youved burnt down a house
[02:30:50] <renesis> why does the_wench do that in channel and not in private message to both parties
[02:36:54] <archivist> because that is the way I coded it and one moan in about 6 years means I was not all wrong
[02:37:25] <furrywolf> lol
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[02:38:15] <the_wench> tjtr33: zeeshan said test
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[03:03:12] <LeelooMinai> Any ideas if a breaker like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DPNL-1P-N-25A-230V-50HZ-60HZ-Residual-current-Circuit-breaker-with-over-current-protection-RCBO/625666170.html
[03:03:31] <LeelooMinai> would work well for solar panel protection?
[03:03:40] <LeelooMinai> Solar panel in stallation, that is
[03:04:35] <LeelooMinai> I also wonder if they are would be ok in 110V installations - should not matter for tripping, right? That would be determined by current only.
[03:07:59] <furrywolf> no
[03:08:33] <furrywolf> for solar panels you need a DC breaker. Many AC breakers will work, but the rating may be off. A residual current/GFCI breaker absolutely will not work.
[03:09:33] <furrywolf> it also most likely will not work on 11v.
[03:09:34] <furrywolf> 110v
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[03:15:54] <LeelooMinai> So maybe something like this? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2P-32A-DC-440V-Circuit-breaker-MCB-for-PV/623939138.html
[03:18:06] <LeelooMinai> "Long mechanical life over 20000 times and beautiful shape." - how can one resist description like that:)
[03:20:18] <LeelooMinai> Not sure how I should the rating. Panels are 8A max - wonder if it matters much as long it a bit higher than combined 16A
[03:20:25] <LeelooMinai> should choose*
[03:24:39] <furrywolf> I'd use a 15A automotive blade fuse.
[03:25:14] <furrywolf> and put the panels in series, not parallel. with a mppt charge controller the higher string voltage will perform better, and half the current means less wiring losses.
[03:25:45] <furrywolf> although if they're 24V panels, you couldn't use a blade fuse with two in series, as the voltage would be too high.
[03:28:20] <roycroft> is this potentially interesting? :
[03:28:21] <roycroft> http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/4945836811.html
[03:29:27] <furrywolf> is that a full-length crack in the third photo?
[03:29:40] <roycroft> i hope not
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[03:29:48] <roycroft> if it is it's not the least bit interesting
[03:30:16] <roycroft> it could be part of the casting
[03:30:23] <roycroft> but it could be a crack, now that i look at it closely
[03:30:43] <roycroft> it's not far from me, but worth a phone call to see if it's a crack before heading over there
[03:30:50] <roycroft> i should say, it's not far from where i work
[03:31:10] <roycroft> i'd have to drive my pickup to work some day if i went to look at it and possibly buyit
[03:31:45] <furrywolf> it looks like you'd need a pretty stout pickup truck and a forklift...
[03:32:00] <roycroft> it's a 10x36
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[03:32:07] <roycroft> so about 1-1/2 tons?
[03:32:19] <furrywolf> dunno. it just looks heavy. :P
[03:32:46] <roycroft> my pickup is a 1/2 ton, but i've hauled a full yard of gravel without any trouble
[03:33:05] <furrywolf> my favorite excessive-machine-tool-in-a-truck was a BIG trip hammer in the back of a '80s toyota. bent the bed into a U-shape the whole length. :P
[03:33:09] <roycroft> and that's well over a ton
[03:33:23] <roycroft> mine's an '88 toyta :)
[03:33:25] <roycroft> toyota
[03:33:44] <furrywolf> he was driving about ten miles an hour down the freeway with his hazards on, the tires squished out, the bed virtually wrapped around the hammer, and the front wheels barely touching.
[03:34:02] <roycroft> i could get a trailer
[03:34:21] <furrywolf> I doubt the axle would have survived hitting a bump...
[03:34:44] <roycroft> and i could drive flat backroads the whole way
[03:34:57] <roycroft> other than driving right through downtown eugene :)
[03:35:16] <furrywolf> definitely check if that's a casting oddity or a crack. If it's a crack, the price is about $1500-(weight * $80/ton) too high.
[03:35:27] <roycroft> yeah
[03:35:36] <roycroft> if it's a crack it's totally useless
[03:35:46] <roycroft> but if not, i think it could potentially be a nice lathe
[03:36:01] <roycroft> i don't like that it only comes with a 6-jaw
[03:36:03] <Rab> Looks like casting to me.
[03:36:27] <roycroft> i'd at least need a 4-jaw for it
[03:36:29] <Rab> It's in relief, with grime deposited around it.
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[03:37:24] <roycroft> i'd rather get an old american lathe than a new import, if the former is not too much work to put back in service
[03:37:56] <furrywolf> Rab: you sure? about halfway up the picture it sure looks to have depth... but I can't tell for sure.
[03:38:03] <furrywolf> also, why'd he take a picture of it?
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[03:38:19] <roycroft> that may be because he doesn't know what to take pictures of
[03:38:32] <roycroft> for example, he took a picture of a plastic cup partially full of liquid sitting on the lathe
[03:38:37] <roycroft> that's not something you take a picture of
[03:38:48] <furrywolf> lol
[03:39:11] <furrywolf> it certainly could be a casting seam that they didn't bother grinding smooth, but I'd check before buying.
[03:39:37] <roycroft> if it's not a crack, does it seem like it's worth pursuing?
[03:39:41] <Rab> furrywolf, I can tell from the pixels, and from seeing quite a bit of grime in my time.
[03:39:48] <furrywolf> I'd imagine the photo with the cup is to show the chuck, not the cup.
[03:39:51] <LeelooMinai> Where one buys din rails?
[03:40:01] <roycroft> right
[03:40:08] <furrywolf> your local industrial supply shop
[03:40:11] <roycroft> i just have this thing about beverages around computers and machinery
[03:40:28] <roycroft> or amazon or ebay
[03:40:33] <furrywolf> beverage? my assumption was cutting fluid.
[03:40:34] <roycroft> or digi-key or mouser
[03:40:36] <furrywolf> and a flux brush
[03:40:47] <roycroft> oh, is that an acid brush?
[03:40:50] <roycroft> it looked like a straw
[03:41:00] <furrywolf> I think that's an aluminum handled brush
[03:41:06] <furrywolf> and the cup cutting fluid
[03:41:40] <Rab> Haha, yeah...otherwise that McCafe's gone seriously off.
[03:41:40] <renesis> ha, current school lathe
[03:42:08] <furrywolf> I wish I had money to buy toys and space to put toys. :(
[03:42:14] <furrywolf> and time to use toys
[03:42:22] <renesis> welcome to life
[03:42:33] <renesis> consider irresponsible loans
[03:42:34] <roycroft> i'm putting up with a mini-lathe
[03:42:38] <renesis> everyone else is doin it.
[03:42:39] <roycroft> like the hf/grizzly ones
[03:42:45] <roycroft> i really need a better lathe
[03:42:53] <renesis> i need a fuckin bandsaw
[03:42:56] <roycroft> space is tight
[03:43:01] <roycroft> but i can make the space
[03:43:04] <roycroft> money is tighter
[03:43:13] <roycroft> so i'm looking for a bargain that's a real bargain
[03:43:18] <roycroft> not a money sink
[03:43:50] <roycroft> i got a 7x12 bandsaw at hf a few years ago for just over $200
[03:43:59] <roycroft> replace my 4x6 with it
[03:44:24] <roycroft> best upgrade i ever did
[03:44:33] <renesis> i might just get a sawzall to cut up stock
[03:44:50] <renesis> i currently have some skill orbital jigsaw
[03:44:54] <renesis> maximum shittiness
[03:45:10] <renesis> *Skil
[03:45:18] <renesis> it doesnt die tho
[03:45:30] <roycroft> at least get a cheap metal chopsaw
[03:45:34] <furrywolf> I've yet to see a sawzall make a straight cut.
[03:45:40] <renesis> i dont really have space
[03:45:45] * LeelooMinai ponders if buying from someone named "worldwidewait" on ebay is a good idea
[03:45:47] <roycroft> plasma cutter?
[03:45:48] <roycroft> :)
[03:46:20] <renesis> my bed my kitchen and my micromill are in the same room
[03:46:31] <renesis> also two 16u rolling shock racks
[03:46:35] <roycroft> mmm
[03:46:42] <renesis> fuck i need to get shipping quotes on those that would free up mad space
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[03:46:45] <roycroft> swarf in your breakfast cereal
[03:46:56] <roycroft> you won't need to take any iron supplements
[03:47:16] <renesis> aluminum chips go really well with frosted mini wheats
[03:47:38] <roycroft> hopefully you're fairly young
[03:47:44] <renesis> somewhat
[03:47:55] <renesis> least i dont sleep with PCB dust in the air anymore
[03:48:16] <roycroft> born after they stopped using metal fillings for teeth
[03:48:27] <renesis> i have both
[03:48:28] <furrywolf> shock racks?
[03:48:56] <renesis> http://www.starcase.com/images/shockmount_rack_16RUhigh_24inchdeep.jpg
[03:48:58] <renesis> that
[03:49:33] <renesis> except mine are custom so the ends hook into the side to become little work tables with fold out legs
[03:50:19] <renesis> also mine are Anvil
[03:50:25] <furrywolf> hrmm. looks like a combination of a road case and a server rack.
[03:50:37] <renesis> its a padded flight rack
[03:51:17] <renesis> and as far as i know, IT and audio both use 19 x 1.75 in racks
[03:52:22] <renesis> i believe IT standardized the position of the rack mounts for the rear of the chassis
[03:52:24] * furrywolf wonders how a flight case differs from a road case. :)
[03:52:40] <renesis> that case, and most racks ive dealt with, dont have that
[03:53:44] <renesis> furrywolf: flight case usually implies metal corner and edges, shrug
[03:54:08] <furrywolf> so does road case...
[03:54:08] <roycroft> i use 23" x 1.75" racks
[03:54:14] <renesis> you can get carpeted cases that only have light duty corners for most applications, or plastic cases
[03:54:24] <roycroft> because telecom
[03:54:28] <renesis> the skb plastic cases are pretty rad
[03:54:38] <furrywolf> I don't have any rack-mount stuff except a power supply and a meter, which end up sitting on the workbench instead of in a rack.
[03:54:39] <renesis> strong and a lot of gap from exterior to the gear
[03:54:49] <renesis> i got these free
[03:54:54] <furrywolf> so I don't own any racks. :)
[03:55:08] <Cromaglious> OMG Leverage S01E04 great episode
[03:55:18] <renesis> there was a mistake and 10 were ordered instead of 1 and eventually they were just getting in the way in the lab shipping dock
[03:55:22] <furrywolf> I mounted the power supply under the workbench... the 1u shape made it mount there very nicely.
[03:57:29] <Cromaglious> I had one of those cases... They're great
[03:57:58] <renesis> i dont want to get rid of them but i need the money
[03:58:41] <Cromaglious> how much you asking for one?
[03:58:56] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, is there some speacial meaning to "disconnect" with respect to just switch?
[03:58:59] <renesis> and they would be going to the place i do contract work for, they got a pretty badass studio, some live sound stuff, little lab studio, and we want to get more test gear
[03:59:13] <renesis> seems like a good home for them
[03:59:38] <renesis> cromaglious: like ~$500
[03:59:42] <renesis> but theyre a bitch to ship
[03:59:52] <renesis> and im trying to get them 600 miles south of here
[03:59:57] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: things advertised as disconnects usually disconnect all poles and have a means of being locked open
[04:00:17] <LeelooMinai> Right, makes sense
[04:00:18] <renesis> its going to be like ~$400 i think
[04:00:25] <furrywolf> check with your local bus service. amtrack, greyhound, etc, often ship large, light things reasonably cheap.
[04:00:38] <renesis> i dont think theyll fit
[04:00:49] <renesis> and i would have trouble getting them to the station
[04:00:50] <renesis> haha
[04:00:52] <renesis> actually
[04:01:01] <renesis> its like 4 blocks from here i could roll them
[04:01:04] <furrywolf> if that fails, then you're looking at LTL freight.
[04:01:25] <renesis> wouldnt be as bad as when i rolled development subwoofers to and through a supermarket to test their casters
[04:01:45] <renesis> furrywolf: right, residential pickup, ~$400
[04:01:57] <renesis> was the fedex quote
[04:02:10] <renesis> im not sure how much they weight and im not sure how to weight them
[04:02:15] <renesis> i dont have a scale
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[04:02:34] <furrywolf> fedex is a lot more costly than random ltl freight companies
[04:02:37] <Cromaglious> you have a bathroom scale?
[04:02:38] <renesis> and i think theyre heavier duty than the 80lb racks im seeing online
[04:02:48] <renesis> cromaglious: no =\
[04:03:03] <renesis> i maybe get one
[04:03:08] <Cromaglious> weight set?
[04:03:17] <renesis> no just a lap bar
[04:03:34] <Cromaglious> take a 2x4 and make a balance scale
[04:03:44] <renesis> furrywolf: fedex is low drama and i can maybe get company to pay on their acct
[04:03:44] <furrywolf> build a small boat that fits in your bathtub, fill the tub to the rim, set the case on top of the boat, measure the volume of the puddle on the bathroom floor, multiply by the density of water. :P
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[04:04:12] <renesis> i dont have a bathtub
[04:04:28] <renesis> i havent had one of those in like 4 years
[04:04:31] <furrywolf> ... how can you not have a bathtub?
[04:04:37] <renesis> i have a shower
[04:05:03] <furrywolf> I've never seen a house without at least one bathtub.
[04:05:25] <renesis> i live in a tile floor studio single, and i dont pay water power or gas
[04:05:31] <renesis> awesome place is awesome
[04:05:50] <Cromaglious> with swarf EVERYWHERE!
[04:05:59] <renesis> naw just a little
[04:06:14] <renesis> machine is neglected since i used it for that class project
[04:06:22] <furrywolf> my living room has a lot of swarf in it... need to vacuum that part once I get some of the crap out of the way.
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[04:09:35] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-GloBug-Balloon-Light-with-Tripod-Stand-/301531947045 someone got a good deal, but that would still have been more than I could afford. bleh. I want to find one of those really cheap.
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[04:11:37] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Multiquip-GBP-GloBug-Balloon-Light-1K-W-/171671278743 that's how they're normally priced.
[04:14:12] <Cromaglious> I melted one of those
[04:14:22] <furrywolf> can I have it? :P
[04:14:27] <Cromaglious> 40mph winds
[04:14:34] <Cromaglious> 20 years ago
[04:15:14] <furrywolf> they claim they won't melt even if the balloon is deflated. also, the current edition is LED, and presumably runs at non-melting temperatures
[04:15:50] <furrywolf> "Safer; LED holds less heat - LED Lamps (158°) vs. Metal Halide (422°)"
[04:16:02] <furrywolf> http://www.multiquip.com/multiquip/GB8LED.htm
[04:16:11] <furrywolf> 110,000 lumens from 800W LED module
[04:16:12] <Cromaglious> the one I was using halogen
[04:17:39] <Cromaglious> San Francisco beerfest 1995 or 6
[04:17:48] <Cromaglious> microbrews
[04:18:12] <furrywolf> halogen is the worst bulb I could think of putting in one of those
[04:18:33] <furrywolf> well, maybe not worst. an open-air arc lamp or an old-fashioned acetylene limelight would be worse...
[04:18:48] <furrywolf> metal halide makes much more sense... and LED is even better.
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[04:20:25] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[04:20:37] <Cromaglious> nite nite
[04:22:31] <furrywolf> I should build one... 1000w metal halide lamps+ballasts are $50... hard part is figuring what to make the balloon out of.
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[04:46:28] <Cromaglious> rip stop nylon coated with a polymer film on the inside
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[04:47:03] <Cromaglious> zip baggy gas seal with velcro to hold the nylon shut
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[06:37:28] <archivist> I understand the machines in kitchen :)
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[06:53:30] <Deejay> moin
[07:00:01] <Cromaglious> Monring
[07:00:07] <Cromaglious> morning
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[07:11:42] <archivist> maundy
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[07:18:50] <Jymmm> archivist: You live in the boonies don't you?
[07:21:21] <Jymmm> archivist: countryside, rural, lots o land little light at night, etc
[07:23:23] * Deejay had to translate that
[07:23:31] <Deejay> in the boonies :)
[07:23:39] <Deejay> hi Jymmm :)
[07:24:17] <Jymmm> hi Deejay, Yeah, boonies, sticks, back 40, BFE, middle of fucking nowhere, etc
[07:24:39] <Jymmm> BFE == Bum FucK Egypt
[07:24:52] <Deejay> lol
[07:25:12] <Jymmm> one horse town, one traffic light town, etc
[07:26:23] <Jymmm> It's been a L O N G time since I've been in BFE
[07:26:46] <Jymmm> I wanted to know how much a BRIGHT flashlight is beneficial
[07:27:27] <Jymmm> for like seeing critters, both the the 4 legged and 2 legged kind.
[07:27:47] <Jymmm> and whatever else goes bump in the night.
[07:28:14] <archivist> I used a torch to look in dark nooks and crannies
[07:28:56] <Jymmm> archivist: just an ordinary torch, or a BRIGHT one?
[07:29:34] <archivist> a torch
[07:29:53] <Jymmm> 2x D-Cell??? 18650? LED???
[07:30:12] <archivist> there is more to life than torches
[07:30:36] <Jymmm> Not really =)
[07:30:54] <Jymmm> other than daylight that is
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[07:32:10] <Jymmm> It's nice to SEE the bear/cougar before it's close enough to maul you =)
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[07:48:59] <Cromaglious> some locals consider me living in BFE... I'm 60 miles from downtown San Diego and 80 from downtown L.A.
[07:49:15] <Jymmm> Cromaglious: Cochella ?
[07:49:19] <Cromaglious> even though Temecula has 110K people
[07:49:31] <Jymmm> It's Temecula though
[07:49:33] <Cromaglious> Cochella is BFE
[07:49:42] <Cromaglious> BBFE
[07:49:53] <Cromaglious> beyond Bum Fuk Egypt
[07:49:57] <Deejay> ^^
[07:50:06] <Jymmm> Do you have those signs on the freeway that have familys running across?
[07:50:21] <Deejay> lo
[07:50:21] <Deejay> l
[07:50:30] <Jymmm> Deejay: I'm dead serious
[07:50:31] <Cromaglious> they took those down
[07:50:38] <Cromaglious> about 5 years ago
[07:50:41] <Jymmm> Cromaglious: ah
[07:51:01] <Jymmm> why?
[07:51:30] <Jymmm> Deejay: http://www.fontcraft.com/xing.jpg
[07:51:36] <Cromaglious> They ad them near the border crossing and near the I-5 Imigration checkpoint just north of Camp Pendleton
[07:51:55] <Deejay> omg
[07:52:01] <Cromaglious> being PC, Demokrauts are in orfice again ya know
[07:52:01] <Jymmm> Cromaglious: But why remove them?
[07:52:10] <Jymmm> Cromaglious: oh fuck me
[07:52:55] <Cromaglious> hmm I'd have to get permission from the wife first
[07:53:20] <Jymmm> Deejay: The freeway is near the border crossing.
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[07:54:05] <Deejay> ah okay
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[07:55:06] <Cromaglious> heh that picture was down near San Ysidro crossing
[07:55:43] <Jymmm> Deejay: So the illegals sneaking into the US to get to "safer" area have to cross the freeway, literally. All 8+ lanes
[07:56:01] <Deejay> so i know why they removed the signs...
[07:56:13] <Deejay> and perhaps also the speed limit ;)
[07:56:17] <Jymmm> roadkill?
[07:56:34] <Deejay> ;)
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[07:56:44] <Cromaglious> hehe you ever see the sing with the modifiers on it? 1x for the guy 3x for the wife, and 10x for the kid?
[07:57:20] <Jymmm> http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/cwoooosh/media/caution.png.html
[07:57:45] <Deejay> horde
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[08:00:04] <Jymmm> THIS is a good sign http://www.texasfreeway.com/elpaso/photos/lp375/images/lp375_border_highway_gun_warning_at_zaragosa_31-may-2001_lres.jpg
[08:00:39] <Jymmm> Even if you have a permit to bring guns into mexico, it is ILLEGAL to bring ammo
[08:01:17] <Jymmm> You MUST get/buy your ammo in mexico.
[08:01:18] <Cromaglious> and you can't bring in anything in a caliber their military uses..
[08:01:43] <Cromaglious> since you can't buy .45acp or 9mm or 223 or 30-06
[08:01:44] <Jymmm> what do THEY use?
[08:01:59] <Jymmm> that sucks
[08:02:06] <Cromaglious> 38super,380, 270 winchester, 222
[08:02:41] <Jymmm> 12ga? 20ga?
[08:03:02] <Cromaglious> well that was the case up through 90ish I know, but I doubt it's changed
[08:03:08] <Jymmm> oh that remnds me, I need to grab a box of 20ga
[08:03:20] <Jymmm> So no 9mm into mx huh?
[08:03:42] <Cromaglious> pussy round anyway...
[08:03:57] <Jymmm> even .22lr kills
[08:04:02] <Jymmm> (slowly)
[08:04:03] <Cromaglious> .45 winmag, or 44 automag
[08:04:14] <Cromaglious> get some real ammo
[08:04:43] <Jymmm> Yeah, I don't play that bigger better game =)
[08:04:48] <Cromaglious> I use .44spl though myself.. not real pussy, but not uber manly either
[08:04:53] <Jymmm> unless a bear is involved.
[08:05:27] <Cromaglious> bear, 44automag, 44 magnum, .45winmag, or 338 lapua
[08:05:27] <Jymmm> 9mm hollow point primarily
[08:05:54] <Cromaglious> ap .308 or 30-06 works too
[08:06:16] <Cromaglious> something to get through the skull
[08:06:47] <Jymmm> I'm talking defense, not hunting.
[08:07:04] <Cromaglious> .44mag then
[08:07:44] <Jymmm> 12 or 20ga with slug rounds is probably what I'd cconsider
[08:07:47] <Cromaglious> or #10 skillet like my brother inlaw used on his last bear or the cinder block on the one before that
[08:08:19] <Cromaglious> camping in Bishop
[08:08:27] <Jymmm> I don't plan on being close enough to use my cast iron skillet on one.
[08:08:44] <Cromaglious> he was chasing the bear down the street
[08:08:57] <Jymmm> lmao, why? Steal his dinner?
[08:09:14] <Cromaglious> getting it away from his kids
[08:09:20] <Jymmm> ah
[08:09:36] <Jymmm> How did it get so close to camp undetected?
[08:10:13] <Cromaglious> you've seen duck dynasty goobers right? Jeff is bigger and scarier than they are by a long shot
[08:10:55] <Cromaglious> woke him up tossing the Cooler around that was chained to the trailer
[08:11:22] <Jymmm> Actually, that's why I've been debating this flashlight http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023848 as a replacement for my 1000 lumen version of the same thing.
[08:11:23] <Jymmm> ah
[08:11:27] <Cromaglious> Cooler is a huge coleman mounted in a 1/4" mild steel box
[08:12:20] <Cromaglious> bear proof, though they can still throw it around
[08:12:42] <Cromaglious> and the trailer is chained to a oak tree
[08:12:53] <Jymmm> damn
[08:13:28] <Jymmm> for theft or bears?
[08:13:49] <Cromaglious> bears think corolla's are pop cans... They just pop doors off them like nowones business
[08:14:04] <Jymmm> That I'm aware of =)
[08:14:04] <Cromaglious> both
[08:14:25] <Jymmm> Wouldn't it have been easier jsut to run a fishining line around the perimiter of camp?
[08:15:38] <Cromaglious> man I want to get a QCTP for my lathe so bad and I know I can't until the car is fixed
[08:16:09] <Jymmm> velcro =)
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[10:43:05] * archivist wonders why albert_coder is in 10 times from one ip
[10:48:49] <_methods> failing at irc life?
[10:48:58] <_methods> piss poor attempt at channel takeover?
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[10:51:16] <archivist> failure to write a working bot
[10:52:25] <_methods> that too lol
[10:52:53] <_methods> quassel fail lol
[10:58:10] <archivist> space fail http://www.collection.archivist.info/shelfview.php?src=artitle&locid=595
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[11:40:06] <_methods> archivist: you running out of room?
[11:40:39] <archivist> ermmm YES
[11:41:07] <archivist> must fill the bin each fortnight
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[11:44:19] <_methods> i have the same problem with my garage and tools
[11:44:31] <_methods> i keep all my manuals digital any more
[11:45:14] <archivist> I digitise when someone requests a scan
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[11:46:29] <_methods> i'm a bit upset about usenet e-book.technical though
[11:46:37] <_methods> that used to be my go to place for tech books
[11:46:52] <_methods> apparently the FBI put a bunch of the people uploading in jail
[11:47:23] <archivist> ew nasty
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[11:51:34] <_methods> yeah
[11:51:45] <archivist> most amusing was an original designer of an item wanting a scan of its manual
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[11:51:52] <_methods> hahah
[11:51:55] <_methods> shit happens
[11:52:25] <The_Eel> hi , can I use linuxcnc with arduino ?
[11:52:42] <archivist> also had someone wanting a signal generator he used to setup on the production line
[11:53:23] <_methods> oh wow i guess they are selling the new apa102 led strips now
[11:54:12] <archivist> The_Eel, arrrrrghuino is hardly up to linuxcnc except as an interface to some item like a temperature probe or whatever
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[11:56:34] <The_Eel> :(
[11:57:15] <_methods> you don't have an old computer?
[11:57:25] <malcom2073> The_Eel: There is CNC firmware for the arduino, but it's about as good as you would expect from CNC firmware on an arduino.
[11:57:30] <_methods> do you have a landfill near you
[11:57:32] <The_Eel> my current computer is old enough :))
[11:57:45] <The_Eel> malcom2073: grbl ?
[11:58:00] <malcom2073> The_Eel: That is one
[11:58:17] <archivist> what sort of cnc ?
[11:58:22] <The_Eel> I thought maybe I could use linuxcnc instead of grbl because grbl is designed for milling
[11:58:28] <The_Eel> laser cutter cnc
[11:58:52] <archivist> use linuxcnc on a pc there are many using it for laser
[11:59:08] <The_Eel> but I'm going to make my cnc with arduino
[11:59:14] <archivist> silly
[12:01:16] <The_Eel> I'm a newbie and I have weird problems . like I'm wondering which laser to buy to cut plexiglass , 200mw 405 nm or 500mw 808 nm . Someone told me 405nm is better but based on some charts , apparently 808 nm is absorbed more
[12:04:06] <archivist> an example where arduino and other simple systems are unlikely to be as good see http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LaserBeamCompensation
[12:04:59] <__rob> anyone here in London who could do 2 cuts for me ?
[12:05:35] <__rob> got some 1 inch thick steel plate that is sawn off and wanted to get it milled flat
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[12:18:17] <archivist> arduino http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument
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[12:23:53] <_methods> haha birmingham screwdriver
[12:24:40] <archivist> I know that term well as I am near Brum
[12:25:14] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arduino "introduced in 2005, 700,000 sold by 2013"
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[12:25:34] <CaptHindsight> mostly for repraps
[12:25:54] <_methods> i use the hell out of them for prototyping stuff
[12:26:05] <_methods> the arduino micro's are like $2
[12:26:22] <_methods> throw away prototypes
[12:26:35] <_methods> light controllers
[12:26:44] <CaptHindsight> the ATmegas?
[12:26:59] <_methods> no the arduino pro micros
[12:27:11] <_methods> you can buy them for $2 on ebay
[12:27:30] <CaptHindsight> have a link?
[12:27:36] <drspastic> Hi has anyone here had experience with those little laser engravers built from CDROM drive parts?
[12:27:40] <CaptHindsight> not sure if it's a board or a device
[12:27:57] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Pro-Mini-atmega328-Board-5V-16M-Replace-ATmega128-Arduino-Compatible-Nano-/131278764259
[12:28:00] <_methods> it a board
[12:28:07] <_methods> atmega 328
[12:28:21] <_methods> with like 19 or so pins broke out
[12:28:42] <_methods> sorry pro mini
[12:28:48] <_methods> the pro micros are like $5
[12:28:55] <_methods> i think the pro micros use the 32u4
[12:29:13] <_methods> i use those for usb prototype projects
[12:29:19] <_methods> they have the usb onboard
[12:29:48] <_methods> or will show up as hid
[12:29:53] <CaptHindsight> 20 MHz 8-bit AVR
[12:30:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega328.aspx
[12:30:07] <_methods> yeah
[12:31:35] <_methods> the pro micro definitely has more horsepower but at $5
[12:31:52] <_methods> my cheap ass just buys the $2 mini's
[12:32:04] <archivist> fleapower
[12:32:10] <_methods> yeah
[12:32:16] <_methods> great for disposable projects
[12:32:21] <CaptHindsight> are those 5V tolerant?
[12:32:30] <_methods> adafruit tries to charge $20 for the same thing
[12:33:32] <CaptHindsight> I think they used to give those away in cereal boxes
[12:33:39] <_methods> they should
[12:33:47] <_methods> maybe not
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[12:33:57] <_methods> there'd be even more reptards running around then
[12:34:31] <CaptHindsight> it was the easy to use dev tools that made them popular
[12:35:26] <CaptHindsight> $2 board I understand, but I don't get the ~$50 duinos
[12:35:27] <_methods> well i can't wait till the cortex's get down to the same price as these chips
[12:35:44] <_methods> yeah $50 for a duino is just stupide
[12:35:47] <CaptHindsight> they are
[12:36:02] <_methods> well i still can't get m4 breakout boards for $2 lol
[12:36:13] <archivist> some people like to make a profit and live
[12:36:14] <CaptHindsight> nobody is making cheap little boards with them yet
[12:36:32] <_methods> i think the only one i saw cheap was the mchck
[12:36:41] <CaptHindsight> they have easy to use dev tools not for winders
[12:36:46] <drspastic> http://m.ebay.com/itm/131278764259?_mwBanner=1 that's the board in my laser machine too. What software will drive it except moshidraw?
[12:36:48] <_methods> and that is pretty much predicated on you getting the 10 free demo chips
[12:37:26] <_methods> they put that in your laser machine?
[12:37:29] <_methods> i would be pissed lol
[12:37:41] <_methods> i hope you didn't pay much
[12:38:52] <_methods> https://mchck.org/blog/2013-08-06-self-built-mchck-for-5-dollars/
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[12:45:05] <drspastic> Yeah it was 80 dollars with that arduino on a board with 2 booster chips and USB. A 1.6w laser and a separate laser drive board with current and voltage display
[12:45:26] <_methods> that's not too bad
[12:45:29] <_methods> all that for $80?
[12:46:19] <_methods> where'd you get that at?
[12:48:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/tools/FM146/CL2167/SC2004 the free dev tools for stm32
[12:49:44] <drspastic> But the frame was smashed so I glued it back up and got it running. Complained and they sent another frame which I am halfway through building another machine with
[12:50:28] <drspastic> Aliexpress
[12:50:32] <CaptHindsight> $8 getting there http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F0DISCOVERY/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt4jl5TkKljYNdBh%2fXNAVTU
[12:50:41] <_methods> yeah they are dropping
[12:51:15] <CaptHindsight> I ordered a superdupper one last week for $15
[12:53:12] <_methods> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1W-DIY-mini-laser-engraving-machine-laser-marking-machine-engraving-machine-engraving-graphic-17-20CM/32271513190.html
[12:54:19] <_methods> you'd be better off just using a arduino mega/ramps i would think
[12:55:14] <_methods> so what will that 1.6W laser cut?
[12:55:58] <_methods> i need to build one at work for part marking i think
[12:57:26] <drspastic> Mine cut through dark foam. Rubber. Set fire to some balsa I was engraving cos it had no fan on it. Cuts thick card easy and CD cases
[12:57:33] <_methods> hehe
[12:58:05] <_methods> that sounds like a fun little project
[12:58:07] <_methods> and cheap too
[12:58:31] <drspastic> That 260 dollar one is way better than mine.
[12:59:11] <drspastic> But mine did do neat work. Very defined writing on a matchstick
[12:59:44] <drspastic> But the software had virus and trashed xp.
[13:00:09] <_methods> well i would imagine you could just use grbl with that
[13:00:37] <drspastic> I am looking for Linux software to run it. Seems linuxcnc only does parport
[13:01:11] <CaptHindsight> $4.60 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-STM32F103C8T6-ARM-STM32-Minimum-System-Development-Board-Module-for-Arduino-/391010694284
[13:01:55] <_methods> oh nice
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[13:02:18] <_methods> linuxcnc will run it
[13:02:34] <_methods> get an old computer and a cheap parallel card
[13:02:53] <_methods> or if you're lucky you find an old one with onboard parallel
[13:03:19] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parallel-DB25-IEEE1284-Printer-1-Port-PCI-e-Card-Full-Low-Profile-bracket-/131335488952
[13:03:22] <_methods> $14
[13:03:29] <drspastic> I'm real novice with this stuff. Plenty of info online to build the mechanics (which hardly need half a brain) but no noon walkthroughs on how to actually get a drawing from my head to the workpiece
[13:05:40] <CaptHindsight> I'll look for more. The stm32 chips are <<$1 in China. They must not be popular for tinkering.
[13:07:33] <drspastic> I only have a cf19 tough book. Will USB to parport work? Then I have to replace all the drive electronics too. Then learn to program another arduino probably. I'm more into hardware and electronics. Not into Mick boards myself at all
[13:07:57] <_methods> usb wont' work with linuxcnc
[13:08:07] <drspastic> Drat
[13:09:13] <drspastic> There must be anoth3r way to fire this machine up. Loads of people are building them it seems. Someone must use linux
[13:09:45] <_methods> no idea
[13:10:30] <_methods> not sure why everyone is so against just using an old computer
[13:10:34] <_methods> they are everywhere
[13:11:06] <drspastic> I think it just needs grbl sent to it. Not sure what that means but could I just dd a grbl file to the \dev\usb port
[13:11:47] <_methods> i've never done it but i would assume you'd need to upload the grbl firmware to teh arduino
[13:11:53] <drspastic> My missus is against any more tech junk in this little studio flat
[13:12:10] <_methods> https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki/Flashing-Grbl-to-an-Arduino
[13:13:12] <_methods> https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki/Compiling-Grbl
[13:13:29] <_methods> you'll probably want to do that for your arduino type
[13:15:43] <drspastic> This is helping. Thanks.
[13:16:20] <_methods> you might have better luck in #grbl
[13:16:24] <_methods> if they have a room i don't know
[13:17:09] <CaptHindsight> _methods: when I ask I just hear: don't use a general purpose computer for embedded or machine control....
[13:17:32] <CaptHindsight> when I ask why not, the conversation ends
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[13:18:02] <_methods> i mean they're everywhere and they are proven to work
[13:18:12] <_methods> you save a pc from teh landfill
[13:18:32] <_methods> just my take on it
[13:18:43] <_methods> but to each their own i guess
[13:18:46] <CaptHindsight> by asking that I believe that I reveal that I am not a party member...
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[13:19:02] <_methods> hehe
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[13:22:50] <drspastic> I do at least have a separate hard drive caddy for experimental stuff. Tough books are cool. Can pull my main disc out and avoid damage. We seriously have no space for another PC. Our flat is 8ft by 20 and more than my share is filled with tech toys
[13:23:37] <_methods> well i've been meaning to try an experiment with one of my laptops
[13:23:53] <_methods> i got a mini-pcie breakout card
[13:24:15] <_methods> i'm going to cut a hole in the bottom of the laptop the put that in and use a full size pci-e card
[13:24:19] <_methods> with the laptop
[13:24:31] <drspastic> That's what I need. Docking station
[13:24:42] <_methods> i'm making a ghetto dock lol
[13:25:17] <drspastic> Tough book has the hole already but dock is not in budget
[13:27:32] <_methods> would be ideal if i can get it to work well with laptops because they are even cheaper and easier to find
[13:27:38] <_methods> and they come with a built in monitor lol
[13:27:40] <_methods> and battery
[13:28:27] <CaptHindsight> machine a new case
[13:28:31] <_methods> yeah
[13:28:37] <_methods> i'll make a little card tray
[13:28:53] <_methods> i have one of those ram mount laptop arms
[13:29:09] <_methods> i'll probably just cut a cutout in the side of that to mount the parallel card to
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[13:29:27] <_methods> so parallel cable will just plug into the side of the tray
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[13:30:22] <_methods> i just need to get off my ass and do it
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[15:04:03] <JT-Shop> I just sent a test email to emc users mailing list, anyone see it?
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[15:04:24] <_methods> not yet
[15:04:35] <ssi> nope
[15:04:45] <_methods> oh nm i forgot i have mine in archive mode
[15:06:00] <pcw_home> Yes, its there
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[15:12:02] <JT-Shop> ok thanks
[15:13:32] <cradek> ~ 46581 Aug 16 John Thornton ( 17) [Emc-users] Test Message
[15:13:35] <cradek> 46582 Apr 03 John Thornton ( 16) `*>
[15:13:45] <cradek> well that was a terrible paste
[15:14:21] <cradek> it threaded under the last one you sent
[15:16:43] <cradek> it was sent to 1290 people
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[15:24:25] <JT-Shop> ok, I see it now on the archive...
[15:26:46] <JT-Shop> hmm, I have "Receive you own posts to the list?" checked as yes but don't get them
[15:27:27] <cradek> do you use gmail? I think they have automatic bs that screws with you
[15:27:48] <cradek> I forget the details but people complain about it on mailing lists frequently
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[15:29:17] <JT-Shop> I changed from gmail to my web site
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[15:29:35] <JT-Shop> gnipsel.com hosted by webhost4life.com
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[16:01:01] <archivist> hmm ebay is terrible for a backlight search, I want shadow images of gear cutter teeth
[16:01:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/STM32F103C8T6-ARM-STM32-Minimum-System-Development-Board-Module-For-Arduino-DHUS-/261472191025 only 42 cents more than the pro mini with shipping
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[16:03:16] <CaptHindsight> archivist: can you use the backlight from a cheap LCD?
[16:03:28] <archivist> dunno
[16:05:46] <archivist> playing with http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=citizen mounting the head off one of these http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=travelling+microscope
[16:06:26] <archivist> optics on the citizen are dead
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[16:09:21] <CaptHindsight> do you illuminate it from about the same position as the lamp in the pic?
[16:14:14] <archivist> sometimes I want light from above sometimes below
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[16:16:00] <archivist> the citizen has been in bits so long I dont know where its original lamp and cable is....grrr, have found the housing
[16:16:30] <archivist> might chuck an LED in it
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[17:31:05] <JT-Shop> lol my original test message just showed up in my inbox
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[17:50:34] <Cromaglious> how many years later?
[17:50:58] <Cromaglious> daughter texted me, it showed up 3 days later
[17:51:11] <CaptHindsight> http://pid.codes/ might be handy for some here
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[18:29:47] <McUles> Mahlzeit
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[18:43:45] <archivist> an interesting twist, just testing my measuring machine experiment, a hob marked .0256" cp has a tooth pitch of 0.06125"
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[18:52:40] <CaptHindsight> just got in 10 new 194 replacement LED's for cars, this must be the new scam, they are the right color but barely visible in the dark
[18:53:26] <CaptHindsight> and the majority of ebay postings have no luminance info
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[18:58:01] <Jymmmm> CaptHindsight: ebay link?
[18:59:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201312328629
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[19:00:21] <CaptHindsight> they must have used a laser or photoshop to get that picture
[19:02:54] <Jymmmm> These look more promising, and looks like SAME photo too... http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-T10-5050-SMD-5-LED-Wedge-Tail-Car-yellow-orange-Light-Bulb-194-168-W5W-12V/121052918824?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29266%26meid%3Dac478a91879140dea413c0a0cebdb5ec%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D201312328629
[19:03:30] <CaptHindsight> yeah, might actually be 5 LED's vs my 1 LED
[19:04:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10X-Amber-Yellow-T10-W5W-168-192-194-42SMD-LED-Wedge-Side-RV-Interior-Light-Bulb-/301347022733 might try these
[19:05:52] <Jymmmm> OMH actual ratings! lol 7W http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-7W-7440-Yellow-LED-Vehicle-Car-Front-Rear-Turn-Signal-Light-Bulb/131293467327?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29266%26meid%3D1a983a7907e54f59996bfe6fd620947b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D301347022733&rt=nc
[19:05:57] <Jymmmm> OMG*
[19:07:20] <Jymmmm> CaptHindsight: T10 COB's http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-Xenon-White-T10-2825-W5W-COB-LED-Bulbs-For-Car-License-Lights-06-/251903024367?hash=item3aa6971cef&vxp=mtr
[19:07:22] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf got some LED's recently that were not even 1/2 their supposed rating
[19:07:54] <Jymmmm> CaptHindsight: you need amber/yallow specifically?
[19:08:04] Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[19:08:36] <CaptHindsight> actually trying to find decent vendors for amber, red, white and blue
[19:08:50] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: blue? for car?
[19:09:03] <CaptHindsight> yes, for interior
[19:09:09] <Jymmm> ah
[19:09:11] <CaptHindsight> or dash
[19:11:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: These might be interesting http://www.ebay.com/itm/6PCS-SMD5050-T10-Car-CANbus-Decode-Taillight-Reading-Dome-LED-Light-Lamp-Bulb-an/191445375273?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29266%26meid%3D543d2e4526e74bf4918c2846f49918d2%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D201312328629&rt=nc
[19:11:14] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: They're COB based.
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[19:42:30] <furrywolf> there's nothing "canbus" about those.
[19:44:44] <furrywolf> also, colored car interior lighting looks like utter shit.
[19:46:02] <_methods> http://donksnob.com/2012/05/03/crown-vic-shittin-literally/
[19:46:04] <_methods> like that
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[20:03:42] <JT-Shop> I guess my floppy drive died
[20:04:10] * JT-Shop don't feel like fixing it today
[20:04:13] <_methods> there's your test msg
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[21:02:20] <heathmanc1979> Any suggestions on using my hitachi wj200 wih modbus. Would like to free up a pwm on my 7i33
[21:02:55] <heathmanc1979> I am assuming i need to find an adapter from 232 to 422
[21:03:37] <LeelooMinai> heathmanc1979: I use this one for linuxcnc <-> GS2 VFD: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/USB-to-TTL-RS485-Serial-Converter-Adapter-FTDI-interface-FT232RL-Module-/321512499456?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4adba36900
[21:04:10] <LeelooMinai> USB - the driver will show a com port though
[21:05:07] <heathmanc1979> I have a serial port available. I would prefer to use it. But that certainly is an option.
[21:05:54] <LeelooMinai> The end result is pretty much the same
[21:07:00] <heathmanc1979> It would be. Honestly, just not a huge fan of usb
[21:07:26] <heathmanc1979> And i only have one port on this single board computer
[21:08:29] <LeelooMinai> There are those: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RS-232-RS232-to-RS-485-RS485-Interface-Serial-Adapter-New-Converter-/251766744653?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a9e77a64d
[21:08:35] <LeelooMinai> But no idea if they work well
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[21:09:10] <heathmanc1979> Looks reasonable
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[21:09:41] <heathmanc1979> How complicated was it to set up your gs2?
[21:10:08] <LeelooMinai> There is a driver for it for linuxcnc so not too bad
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[21:16:08] <Cromaglious> hmm that's an idea.. serial db9 has 3 inputs DSR, CTS, & RING and 2 outputs DTR and RTS
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[21:19:24] <Cromaglious> woo forgot about CD that's an input
[21:19:55] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:24:00] <heathmanc1979> Dont know how they can make a profit off of those. I ordered the usb one, will give it a shot
[21:24:27] <heathmanc1979> Less than $7.50usd shipped
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[21:31:13] <renesis> heathmanc1979: because its prob $.75 in power supply, microcontroller and level conversion, and about $.75 in plastic and hardware
[21:31:24] <renesis> %100 markup
[21:31:51] <LeelooMinai> It doesn't need microcontroller - it has FTDI USB to serial IC
[21:31:59] <archivist> and shipping and assembly and solder
[21:32:19] <renesis> i walk talking about the rs232 rs485
[21:32:35] <renesis> and ftdi is expensive as fuck compared to clones and microcontrollers
[21:32:37] <LeelooMinai> I thought that one was sub $3:)
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[22:08:31] <archivist> oops :) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111632136870
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[22:27:40] <cradek> that looks like a good deal if you need whatever it is
[22:28:28] <archivist> I often have to measure screws to make copies
[22:29:25] <archivist> old clocks have random threads
[22:34:14] <cradek> neat
[22:35:37] <archivist> can do it optically, but that looks a nice toy so went for it, the holding part may be useful under the optical method
[22:35:39] <cradek> if some guy's screw plate in 1832 had 51.7 threads per inch you can just cnc that right up
[22:35:48] <archivist> yup :)
[22:36:28] <cradek> when the screw's rusted away how do you handle it? do all the screws tend to be similar pitch?
[22:37:27] <archivist> each screw plate would be different
[22:37:41] <cradek> I mean all the screws in a certain watch
[22:39:04] <archivist> never had to make a watch screw, they were taper pin in the old watches, by the time mass production came in threads would be more consistent
[22:39:27] <cradek> ah right
[22:39:27] <archivist> so many threads to collect data on too
[22:39:49] <cradek> I kind of hate those pins
[22:41:21] <cradek> I need to put a mainspring in my favorite watch
[22:41:52] <cradek> when I got it, it was broken at the outside end and to my shame I just drilled a new hole in the remaining end and put it back together
[22:41:57] <archivist> that can be a difficult job, specially keeping it clean while you do it
[22:42:00] <cradek> there was still plenty - the fusee setup went fine
[22:42:13] <cradek> wore it for a year before it broke again
[22:43:23] <archivist> I have a fusee pocket watch that I need to re bush the escapement to get it working
[22:44:06] <cradek> this one had broken balance jewels on one end too, but luckily the staff was ok
[22:44:31] <cradek> is yours lever?
[22:44:50] <archivist> verge
[22:45:00] <cradek> ah
[22:45:41] <archivist> got it as payment for a tower clock escapement repair I did
[22:45:56] <cradek> I'm used to the lever fusees and how you never have to set them :-)
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[22:46:22] <cradek> I don't think I'd want to actually wear a verge
[22:46:38] <cradek> and I avoid accumulating watches I won't use - that way lies (even more) madness
[22:46:45] <dirty_d> hmm
[22:47:03] <furrywolf> I don't think I'd want an innaccurate, maintenance-requiring timepiece. :P
[22:47:10] <furrywolf> aka an analog watch
[22:47:11] <dirty_d> where should i ask about engine specific engineering stuff?
[22:47:34] <furrywolf> you can try here
[22:47:39] <cradek> dirty_d: hard to say
[22:48:03] <dirty_d> ##engineering is kinda barren
[22:48:22] <cradek> furrywolf: this one would keep time to a second or three a day, so I'd have to set it only every month or two
[22:48:23] <dirty_d> furrywolf, i came to my senses and decided to just use a MAP sensor instead of screwing with the throttle
[22:48:50] <furrywolf> ##cars is great if your questions involve applying v-tec stickers or chinese HID kits.
[22:48:55] <dirty_d> except im not sure how well this would work because of how a piston port engine works
[22:49:02] <dirty_d> haha
[22:49:08] <archivist> two smoke?
[22:49:11] <dirty_d> yea
[22:49:41] <dirty_d> i think the sensor should be sampled where the intake pressure is lowest right?
[22:49:55] <furrywolf> hrmm. speed-density might have some funky curves with a 2-stroke.
[22:50:10] <dirty_d> either that or just average it, but im worried the delay in the digital filter will lead to a lean condition during acceleration
[22:50:52] <archivist> especially if it has tuned exhaust
[22:51:02] <dirty_d> it does
[22:51:44] <furrywolf> usually you use the throttle position sensor to enrich on throttle opening, emulating ye olde accelerator pump.
[22:51:44] <dirty_d> well, since it uses a carb, it would make sense to sample at the lowest pressure, since thats when the carb is working
[22:52:14] <dirty_d> but i planed on sampling on an interrupt form the pulse coil
[22:52:26] <dirty_d> which is 28deg BTDC i believe
[22:53:29] <archivist> what are you going to do with the measurement
[22:53:36] <dirty_d> from this it looks like the lowest intake pressure would be at about TDC http://avstop.com/ac/power_parachute/images/fig4_3.jpg
[22:53:51] <dirty_d> on the way up
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[22:54:11] <dirty_d> but its a 2 cylinder and they share the intake manifold
[22:54:32] <dirty_d> maybe im overthinking it
[22:54:55] <cradek> huh I didn't know there were designs without reeds
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[22:55:06] <dirty_d> yea there are at least 2 i know of
[22:55:14] <dirty_d> the other uses a rotary valve
[22:55:15] <archivist> most were without reeds
[22:55:15] <furrywolf> reedless is quite common
[22:55:19] <furrywolf> for smaller engines
[22:55:32] <dirty_d> there isnt any metal to metal contact with that i dont think
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[22:55:52] <furrywolf> you probably can just put the map sensor downstream of the throttle body and work out any oddities in software
[22:55:54] <dirty_d> just close enough tolerances to not let much air through
[22:56:19] <archivist> upgrade to a 4 stroke
[22:56:20] <dirty_d> furrywolf, yea i suppose that will work, but what should the filter time constant be?
[22:56:53] <dirty_d> ideally i think the sample should be representative of the average pressure during the last cycle
[22:57:55] <dirty_d> this was supposed to be a no money project, lol
[22:58:14] <dirty_d> where no money means $10 or $20 here and there
[22:59:41] <furrywolf> how about a running average with weighting based on rpm?
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[23:00:22] <furrywolf> if the rpm is high, use more of the current reading and less of the average, if the rpm is low, use more of the average and less of the current reading
[23:00:45] <dirty_d> im not sure if hte current reading is really meaningful though
[23:01:02] <dirty_d> arent there times where there isnt much air exchange?
[23:01:07] <dirty_d> between cycles
[23:01:21] <dirty_d> and it would pretty much always be near atmospheric
[23:01:31] <dirty_d> well i guess that would only be at really low speed if at all
[23:01:54] <dirty_d> inertia would help at high speed
[23:02:05] <dirty_d> hmm, or make it worse, lol
[23:02:16] <archivist> you may have a very low pressure on overrun with throttle close
[23:02:42] <archivist> what are you trying to do though
[23:02:49] <dirty_d> yea, i dont think it will be a problem though
[23:02:58] <dirty_d> running lean for a short time shouldnt cause a problem
[23:03:15] <dirty_d> archivist, i have a jet ski with a carb that is complete shit
[23:03:19] <furrywolf> if the throttle is mostly closed, there's pretty much a constant vacuum, as it can't refill through the closed butterfly quickily. if the throttle is wide open, the intertia of the air helps keep it smooth, but yes, there's pulses you'll need to average.
[23:03:26] <dirty_d> so i figued a fun project would be to convert it to EFI
[23:03:33] <dirty_d> i already have all the parts
[23:03:42] <furrywolf> there's always the ford solution... put the map sensor on a long length of hose. :P
[23:03:45] <dirty_d> fuel pump, injector, MAP, controller
[23:03:57] <dirty_d> furrywolf, im also considering that
[23:04:38] <dirty_d> but i dont know how youd figure the time constant of the filter that it forms is
[23:04:49] <furrywolf> do you need to?
[23:05:29] <dirty_d> well only to know if its actually doing any significant filtering
[23:05:41] <furrywolf> it'd be a funky transfer equation, as the speed of sound is going to change based on the manifold vacuum, etc. :P
[23:05:56] <dirty_d> i have no idea if the pressure at the end of the tube is about the average of one cycle, or 100
[23:06:20] <dirty_d> i think im definitely overthinking it
[23:06:35] <dirty_d> i got it to run pretty good just by pumping the primer and listening to the engine
[23:06:43] <dirty_d> with nothing from the carb
[23:06:44] <dirty_d> lol
[23:06:57] <furrywolf> I think you can filter it in software as long as you sample fast enough (more than 5-10 times per stroke at top rpm), otherwise you need some hardware filtering.
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[23:07:08] <dirty_d> i guess its happy with some gas every few hundred cycles
[23:07:22] <dirty_d> furrywolf, yea thats easily doable
[23:07:50] <dirty_d> i have a stm32 board lying around
[23:08:22] <dirty_d> and i already made the fuel injector and fuel pump drivers
[23:08:34] <furrywolf> hardware filtering is really easy... a long tube or an orifice...
[23:09:00] <dirty_d> yea, is it easy to figure out the parameters of the filter though?
[23:09:10] <furrywolf> "until it works well".
[23:09:23] <archivist> easy enough to make an adjustable orifice while experimenting
[23:09:29] <dirty_d> lol i like how you think
[23:11:07] <archivist> I expect curves like http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=curve+2788
[23:11:34] <furrywolf> you only need to filter in hardware enough that you don't get sampling errors at your top rpm... you can do more filtering, or rpm-sensitive filtering, in software.
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[23:12:45] <furrywolf> a filter with rpm as a component is pretty easy... just use a running average where the factor depends on some way on the current rpm, so it responds faster at high rpm and slower and low rpm.
[23:13:08] <furrywolf> a curve from the prince of darkness?
[23:13:42] <dirty_d> furrywolf, just adjust the sample frequency proportionally
[23:14:55] <furrywolf> or that. sample x times per stroke, with a fixed weighting.
[23:15:06] <archivist> furrywolf, I got a couple of car loads from Lucas when they shut one of the factories
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[23:16:13] <furrywolf> have they spontaneously caught fire yet?
[23:16:32] <furrywolf> or do you just mean docs, not parts? :)
[23:16:52] <archivist> docs and pictures
[23:17:28] <furrywolf> ah, ok. so the magic smoke is stored at atmospheric pressure, not bottled like their components. :P
[23:18:05] <archivist> I have the failure rates! not as bad as you think
[23:18:24] <Rab> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/03/3d-printed-ice-cubes_n_7000220.html
[23:18:33] <furrywolf> the failure rates, based on my experience with british cars, are over 100%. yes, over - because even if the part has been replaced, it's bad.
[23:18:45] <Rab> Technically, the creation of these tiny ice sculptures is more like "3D milling" than 3D printing, according to the ad agency's website, but the concept is similar. Rather than building up an object from layers of plastic, the 3D mill shaves the ice away to create a desired shape.
[23:18:52] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=PS2252
[23:18:56] <Rab> Like a 3D printer, the 3D mill is connected to a computer and even uses a 3D-printing app.
[23:19:06] <furrywolf> LOL!
[23:20:20] <dirty_d> i think a fixed filter time constant of 0.1s would be good enough
[23:21:02] <dirty_d> thats 1.67 revolutions during the time constant
[23:21:05] <dirty_d> at idle
[23:21:06] <furrywolf> archivist: let me guess, that's out of 1000 units, showing every one of them failed within 9 months? :)
[23:21:18] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=reliability+lucas
[23:21:40] <dirty_d> but really double the filtering because 2 intake strokes per revolution
[23:23:59] <furrywolf> archivist: let's put it this way... the last vehicle I worked on with lucas electrics was a jag. like every single other vehicle I've worked on with lucas electrics, absolutely nothing worked. the engine worked because someone had put part of an aftermarket chevy harness in. the headlights worked because they were hotwired to a switch sticking out of the dash.
[23:24:53] <archivist> furrywolf, and I got into one of the Jag factories :)
[23:25:19] <furrywolf> the owner asked me to take a poke at it to see if I could make more work... I couldn't. because EVERY SINGLE FUCKING PART was bad. The switches didn't work, but that didn't matter, because they had no power. The fuse holders sucked, but that didn't matter, because the internal wiring of the fuse block was bad. But that didn't matter, because the wiring between the fuses and the switches was bad, and all the same color so you had no idea which wire
[23:25:52] <furrywolf> But that didn't matter, because even if you hotwired past the switch, it didn't make it to the part it was supposed to control. And all the wires were the same color, again. And the part it was supposed to control was, of course, also bad.
[23:26:41] <dirty_d> lol
[23:27:53] <furrywolf> Lucas: The original intermittant wipers.
[23:28:03] <furrywolf> Lucas: Self-dimming headlights as standard equipment.
[23:28:23] <furrywolf> Lucas: Switches have three positions - off, dim, and smoking.
[23:28:57] <CaptHindsight> won't start in the rain for anti-theft
[23:30:06] <furrywolf> Lucas electronics are all AC - just you don't get to pick the frequency.
[23:32:14] <furrywolf> now compare this, to, say, ANY OTHER VEHICLE EVER MADE. my '68 jeep has fully functional electrics. so do my '83 and '84 subarus. So has every other non-lucas non-german vehicle I've owned.
[23:32:49] <furrywolf> sure, things on some vehicles die, but they're isolated incidents, and the smoke tends to stay in the rest of the components.
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