#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-03-31

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[00:03:51] <_methods> astronauts gotta have pizza man
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[00:04:08] <CaptHindsight> totally
[00:04:37] <andypugh> The Cheese one is funny. He _can’t_ be taking himself seriously.
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[00:07:11] <_methods> yeah stepper attached to arm.....
[00:07:23] <_methods> classic 3d printer crowd work
[00:09:40] <andypugh> And not even a sensible geometry
[00:10:14] <andypugh> He could have done a lot better with a bit of bent coat-hanger, but they don’t think that way.
[00:11:40] <_methods> or a piece of wood with a hole in it lol
[00:12:09] <_methods> they love to make crazy rube goldberg contraptions to perform simple tasks for some reason
[00:12:29] <andypugh> Well, to be honest, so do I. :-)
[00:12:34] <_methods> i think the plastic fumes affect their spatial reasoning skills
[00:12:56] <_methods> haha
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[00:16:49] <Rab> Like any of you yahoos wouldn't leap at the chance to mill some exotic Easy Cheese dispensing linkage out of billet 7075-T6 and/or stainless steel, with oven-baked hammertone paint in some historically-correct color, etc etc.
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[00:18:15] <_methods> i'd give anything just to be a part of easy cheese history
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[00:19:45] <andypugh> I like to use Brass.
[00:20:53] <andypugh> I shovelled several kg of brass swarf off of the machines last night. I probably should either melt it down or cash it in as scrap.
[00:22:15] <andypugh> Not the most material-efficient way to make brackets: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/NerACar?noredirect=1#6112525165061477682
[00:25:58] <_methods> where's the cheese wiz
[00:28:14] <andypugh> Well, quite. But I rather feel that headlight brackets would need to be parmesan for stiffness.
[00:29:41] <Rab> Here is some quality 3D-printed cheese: http://www.cyclonecnc.4fan.cz/portalcyclone/
[00:38:04] <andypugh> I don’t see the advantage in putting lightening holes in light, but not-stiff material.
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[01:09:01] <andypugh> Sometimes I just want to say “F-off and buy Mach, see if you get better support there” http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/29026-first-time-user-with-first-cnc?start=10#57323
[01:10:03] <zeeshan> http://gyazo.com/c5dca7f5eef386107fbc9f2d97f51787
[01:10:10] <zeeshan> anyone forsee problems ?:p
[01:11:02] <zeeshan> i wish i could easily make a sliding door for it
[01:11:30] <Rab> zeeshan, that's for your lathe?
[01:11:32] <zeeshan> yea
[01:11:43] <zeeshan> the bottom door i think will be latched on all the time
[01:11:52] <zeeshan> will open it for chip cleaning after a while
[01:12:00] <zeeshan> the left door is the most important
[01:12:04] <zeeshan> for tool changes
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[01:14:31] <andypugh> zeeshan: The door overlaps are the wrong way round for coolant splash.
[01:15:42] <andypugh> Flanges on the bottoms of the top doors are probably all that it needs though.
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[01:17:26] <zeeshan> andypugh: hmm
[01:18:03] <andypugh> I quite like the gas-strut up-and-away covers that Denford used: This is a mill, but I think I have seen it on lathes: http://www.ppauctions.com/_assets/archived/machinery_formerly_maintained_by_cnc_machine_tools_ltd_25/lot_142_8960.jpg
[01:18:22] <zeeshan> andypugh: that works well i think for smaller lengths
[01:18:33] <zeeshan> i think it might be a pain in the rear for doing simple tool changes
[01:18:46] <zeeshan> but ive never owned one so i cant fully say :P
[01:18:56] <andypugh> Hard to split, thinking about it.
[01:19:13] <andypugh> Hey, M6 could raise the cover for you :-)
[01:19:42] <zeeshan> ROFL
[01:19:44] <andypugh> (and pulling it down triggers tool-changed)
[01:19:49] <zeeshan> that would BE BAd ass
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[01:20:13] <zeeshan> i'd prolly get wacked in the face by it
[01:20:14] <CaptHindsight> http://shop.agic.cc/collections/everything/products/agic-circuit-printer-starter-set
[01:21:30] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: That’s rather interesting, but rather expensive.
[01:21:41] <malcom2073> Evaporust trials: Wrapped: http://mikesshop.net/millcleanup/DSCN1972.JPG Unwrapped: http://mikesshop.net/millcleanup/DSCN1976.JPG After cleaning up with steel wool: http://mikesshop.net/millcleanup/DSCN1978.JPG
[01:21:48] <malcom2073> The CNC is getting closer and closer to running!
[01:22:42] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: well anything inkjet is generally priced high and they act like silver ink is made of gold :)
[01:23:20] <andypugh> I can imagine that silver inkjet ink is genuinely expensive. Even normal pigments are not cheap.
[01:23:36] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: they actually are
[01:23:53] <zeeshan> malcom2073: nice!
[01:24:01] <zeeshan> that really cleaned up
[01:24:11] <andypugh> (I single toner cartridge for my laser printer is £175, but that just means that when one runs out I will scrap the printer)
[01:24:14] <malcom2073> Turns out they're brushed DC servos and servo drives
[01:24:30] <zeeshan> malcom2073: i think that was the stadnard back in the day
[01:24:35] <zeeshan> from what ive learned :p
[01:24:42] <zeeshan> resolvers or tachogenerators with dc brush servos
[01:25:08] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: if you want to diy your own silver ink http://jordanbunker.com/archives/41
[01:25:25] <malcom2073> Has both, encoder and a tachogenerator, 10,000rpm per volt it says lol. The drivers are +/-10v analog input though, so easy mesa hookup :-D
[01:25:52] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Well, OK, the pigments may be, but they know how to charge for cartridges. In the context of printer consumables that looks almost fair for actual silver conductive ink. I am actually astonished that you can inkjet conductive ink at all.
[01:26:43] <andypugh> malcom2073: Keep the tach to driver link. That is old school but effective
[01:27:02] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: besides spark timing in autos, what is are the shortest response times you've seen required with EFI?
[01:27:23] <malcom2073> andypugh: I'm leaving the wiring alone, it worked with EMC, so I'm not touching much electrically
[01:27:50] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: yeah, aqueous inkjet ink is 95% water and a few $$ per liter in materials
[01:28:41] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Injection timing is tighter than spark timing because it sets fuel volume. Resolution is about 100uS I think (I can check if it really matters)
[01:29:09] <malcom2073> andypugh: Only for direct injection engines
[01:29:17] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I'm look at various EFI controllers for custom projects
[01:29:24] <CaptHindsight> look/looking
[01:30:04] <andypugh> There are off-the-shelf options, any reason not to just buy an Emerald or similar?
[01:30:10] <CaptHindsight> I've seen 100uS in some of the timer source for min resolution
[01:30:17] <malcom2073> Ah, accuracy of the pulse width vs accuracy of the cycle timing, nm
[01:30:32] <malcom2073> 100uS is not nearly enough for spark
[01:30:39] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: not flexible enough and prices
[01:30:41] <malcom2073> Or rather, is way too much
[01:31:20] <CaptHindsight> take max rpm and 720 deg
[01:32:28] <Tom_itx> might be something useful in here for somebody here: http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz/
[01:32:46] <Tom_itx> old legacy dos programs
[01:33:00] <Tom_itx> most run under windows cmd prompt
[01:33:47] <andypugh> Yes, you are right, 100uS is 6 crank degrees at 10,000 rpm. Bear with me, I brought the laptop home.
[01:34:08] <CaptHindsight> thanks
[01:34:58] <malcom2073> <1uS is a good target, but you're not going to see that except in
[01:35:07] <malcom2073> dual core systems
[01:35:22] <malcom2073> like the s12x and the like
[01:35:51] <malcom2073> The *duino ecu guys get by with a lot less, but they're not running very sensitive engines heh
[01:36:27] <malcom2073> I keep wanting to get one of the arm/fpga boards and play around with it, be perfect for that sort of application
[01:37:13] <CaptHindsight> comparing stm32F4 and also SmartFusion
[01:37:28] <CaptHindsight> cortex-m3 with FPGA
[01:37:28] <malcom2073> I was eying up the SmartFusion, cheap dev board
[01:37:39] <malcom2073> Looked fairly promising
[01:37:56] <CaptHindsight> how much can just be put in fpga?
[01:38:20] <malcom2073> I figure trigger wheel reading, and output timing would be the only things needed
[01:38:44] <malcom2073> Just havet he ARM proc tell it what degree to fire on, the fpga would track the engine position itself
[01:39:05] <malcom2073> Parallel it, one pipe for each input and output
[01:39:24] <malcom2073> <- no FPGA experience though, so its pure thought
[01:39:31] <CaptHindsight> MC9S12XDP512 is the other micro some projects are using
[01:39:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=S12XD
[01:39:53] <malcom2073> Yeah, the problem with that, is you have to write assembly for the xgate. I think the C compiler is $$$
[01:40:03] <malcom2073> (xgate being the secondary timing processor)'
[01:40:16] <CaptHindsight> yes, no open compiler for the X
[01:40:30] <malcom2073> Now, some have written timing stuff for the xgate, and it seems to work pretty well
[01:40:40] <CaptHindsight> with hand packing they have 6cyl engines going
[01:40:59] <malcom2073> v8's with sequential and COP spark
[01:41:02] <CaptHindsight> freeems, libreems
[01:41:03] <andypugh> The old Ford ECU is almost Open nowadays.
[01:41:14] <CaptHindsight> rusefi uses stm32f4
[01:41:16] <furrywolf> most uCs can generate quite accurately timed pulses.
[01:41:24] <furrywolf> any uC with hardware timers...
[01:41:27] <malcom2073> furrywolf: You can run a car on an arduino
[01:41:29] <malcom2073> it's been done
[01:41:49] <furrywolf> I can run a car by sitting on top of the engine and dribbling fuel out of a jerry can. I've done it. that doesn't mean it works well. :)
[01:41:53] <CaptHindsight> it starts to feel like Linuxcnc
[01:41:59] <andypugh> (the name of it might come back to me)
[01:42:01] <malcom2073> freeems doesn't use the xgate so is limited to 6, libreems uses the xgate, so can do v12 sequential and up.
[01:42:11] <malcom2073> Yeah, it's very open sourcy
[01:42:12] <malcom2073> the whole thing
[01:42:13] <furrywolf> eec-iv?
[01:42:32] <CaptHindsight> speeduino
[01:42:37] <malcom2073> Yeah eev-iv is pretty well hacked, as is the OBD1 GM stuff
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[01:42:45] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/noisymime/speeduino
[01:42:47] <malcom2073> yeah
[01:42:57] <furrywolf> old eec-iv is speed-density and very easy to make work.
[01:43:00] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_EEC
[01:43:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.megamanual.com/MSFAQ.htm MegaSquirt
[01:43:33] <malcom2073> Megasquirt is a decent closed source diy one
[01:43:45] <malcom2073> Not hackable, if you hack it, they go after you with lawyers lol
[01:43:57] <CaptHindsight> https://code.google.com/p/open5xxxecu/
[01:44:03] <furrywolf> but, as I was saying, most uCs can generate very accurately timed pulses, both start and duration. You set them up in advance using the hardware timers. The software might have crap timing, but as long as it can set the hardware timer up in advance, that's irrelevant.
[01:44:09] <malcom2073> Yeah o5e died sadly, they had a really good idea, I got one of their dev boards
[01:44:34] <malcom2073> I keep bugging the lead dev to start it back up, but he's lost interest I think
[01:44:39] <malcom2073> It was supposed to be "pro"
[01:44:45] <furrywolf> 1us is dead easy.
[01:44:46] <malcom2073> aiming to take on the $10k ecu's at a $2k price
[01:44:58] <CaptHindsight> http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page rusEfi
[01:45:14] <malcom2073> That's the stm32 one?
[01:45:20] <CaptHindsight> yea
[01:45:20] <malcom2073> yeah
[01:45:36] <malcom2073> Never played much with stm32, I suppose it's not better or worse than the others? dunno
[01:45:55] * furrywolf gives up, and decides everyone here wants to throw way too much processor power at it and bit-bang the timers, rather than properly use hardware timers
[01:46:01] <malcom2073> Tbh I still think the dual core (I have a LPC4370 sitting here....) is the way to go
[01:46:13] <CaptHindsight> why SmartFusion is also interesting
[01:46:14] <malcom2073> furrywolf: Nah, there's no chip with enough hardware timers
[01:46:19] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: FPGA scares me some
[01:46:27] <malcom2073> But that would work better than dual core
[01:46:40] <CaptHindsight> I don't mind, it's just more work for me vs some software dev
[01:46:41] <furrywolf> how many hardware timers do you need? my math says about two.
[01:47:12] <furrywolf> one for fuel, one for spark. which cylinder for each is selected by a 3:8 demux on low-speed io pins.
[01:47:19] <malcom2073> furrywolf: Depends on if your hardware timers support masked compare interrupts
[01:48:08] <furrywolf> you could get that down even lower if you did the ford thing and fired the injectors in two sets instead of individualy, or if you had a wasted-spark ignition system that only needed half as many coil transistors...
[01:48:26] <malcom2073> Sequential is where it's at, no reason with modern power to do batch fire
[01:48:48] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: this might be the way to get those small diesel 4cyl engines to work without the factory ECU's tied to them
[01:49:17] <CaptHindsight> unless they have encryption in the injectors
[01:49:20] <malcom2073> But yeah, you can do it with single timers, one for fuel and one for spark and demuxers, that's what the arduino does afaik
[01:49:36] <andypugh> I wrote a spark/injection timing thing for Arduino mega and a V10 if anyone cares :-)
[01:50:27] <malcom2073> Heh
[01:50:38] <andypugh> (furrywolf might be pleased to know that it clocks-through a table on crank-pulse interrupt with a non-realtime thread populating the tables)
[01:50:43] <malcom2073> Like furrywolf said, jerry can
[01:50:44] <malcom2073> :P
[01:50:47] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: working on a Viper?
[01:51:09] <andypugh> http://www.f1-2000.co.uk
[01:51:18] <furrywolf> most of my timer experience is on the hc11, and on those, it's trivial to set a timer to raise a pin at a certain time and lower it at a later time, without needing any interrupts or other processing...
[01:51:49] <andypugh> furrywolf: Yes, but, in an engine it makes sense to trigger on crank position.
[01:51:56] <furrywolf> malcom2073: I've done that for short-distance moves of vehicles with fuel system issues... as long as you get the fuel flow reasonable... :P
[01:52:01] <malcom2073> Heh
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[01:53:35] <furrywolf> andypugh: it makes sense NOT to directly use any sensor inputs. if you have a hardware dependency on the crank position sensor, you can't them limp-home with just the cam position sensor, etc.
[01:53:47] <furrywolf> s/them/then
[01:53:54] <andypugh> I have looked around on the laptop and it looks like injection timing has moved to the supplier layer, and we only get to request a fuel mass now, and can’t tweak the mass-to-timing maps.
[01:54:41] <andypugh> furrywolf: I am not sure that you ever can limp home on cam sensor only.
[01:55:02] <andypugh> (granted you stand more chance with that than crank-only)
[01:55:04] <malcom2073> andypugh: You should be able to, but you'd be limited to batch fire and wasted spark if the hardware is capable
[01:55:23] <andypugh> Sparks? what are those?
[01:55:29] <CaptHindsight> Infineon Tricore http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/microcontroller/32-bit-tricore-tm-microcontroller/channel.html?channel=ff80808112ab681d0112ab6b64b50805
[01:55:31] <malcom2073> Heh
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[01:55:39] <malcom2073> They're what people who use lesser fuels have to do to ignite them :P
[01:55:48] <furrywolf> andypugh: sure you can. timing will suck, but just retard it enough you won't cause damage, and it'll limp home fine.
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[01:56:05] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Nice, three cores. 4 is next!
[01:56:22] <CaptHindsight> featuring dual lockstep cores!
[01:56:39] <andypugh> Today I ran an engine at full load for 20 minutes with no coolant at all. Bizarrely it was fine.
[01:56:58] <furrywolf> heh, on a vehicle that would limp on just cam but fail on just crank, I always figured they should have added a crank-position-sensor-only limp-home mode... while you're cranking it, every couple revolutions alter the guess of where you're at by one cylinder. repeat until engine catches. :)
[01:57:22] <malcom2073> furrywolf: Amusingly enough, I ran my car like that for a while
[01:57:29] <malcom2073> crank for a while, if it didn't catch, reboot ecu and try again
[01:57:35] <furrywolf> andypugh: I do that with my lawnmower all the time! oh, you mean one that's supposed to have coolant... :)
[01:57:38] <malcom2073> had a 50/50 chance of getting it each time
[01:57:43] <furrywolf> lol
[01:58:05] <malcom2073> I've since re-wired the injectors so that it doesn't matter
[01:58:07] <andypugh> furrywolf: There was discussion of that. Delete the cam sensor, try every TDC, work out which one works and stick with it. Sae $5 per car. Proift.
[01:58:39] <furrywolf> andypugh: works great until you miss a couple crank pulses and forget where you are...
[01:58:55] <malcom2073> If you forget where you are, the car shuts off anyway
[01:58:56] <andypugh> The missing-tooth index will save you
[01:59:18] <furrywolf> if I remember right, this vehicle didn't have one, instead relying on the cam sensor for that.
[01:59:24] <zeeshan> fin mitsubishis
[01:59:30] <zeeshan> cam and crank sensor sync issues! :P
[02:00:18] <zeeshan> im working on my brakes
[02:00:28] <furrywolf> it had three (6cyl) identical sets of notches around the flywheel.
[02:00:32] <zeeshan> deciding on if i should go with cu ni line or just good ol steel
[02:00:34] <zeeshan> w/ polymer coating
[02:00:47] <furrywolf> but, yeah, you could probably do away with the cam sensor and just use crank sensor.
[02:00:53] <andypugh> I keep meaning to add missing-tooth index to LinuxCNC. The magnetic crank sensors are _perfect_ for a lathe spindle (big thorugh-hole) and are bidirectional now on a single channel. One pulse per mark, direction indicated by mark-space ratio, missing tooth as index. So, index + direction for only one wire and IO pin.
[02:02:39] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150325-new-gizmo-3ds-super-fast-dlp-3d-printer-creates-objects-in-6-minutes.html still layers but the Z just moves continuously
[02:02:51] <CaptHindsight> and only useful for low viscosity resins
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[02:03:41] <CaptHindsight> this is similar to how we print the cell phone and laptop cases
[02:03:48] <ffurrywol> <furrywolf> but, yeah, you could probably do away with the cam sensor and just use crank sensor.
[02:03:49] <ffurrywol> <furrywolf> I've always used steel.
[02:04:04] <ffurrywol> <furrywolf> especially if your ecu was one that killed its own power rather than being directly switched by the key, so you could watch the crank sensor on shutdown and stuff it in keepalive memory, to avoid any delay on next startup. it's still possible the engine could rotate afterwards, but not often, so it wouldn't cause extended starts except in very rare circumstances.
[02:04:14] <CaptHindsight> only we add inserts or other steps in between layers
[02:04:36] <zeeshan> ffurrywol: thats what the mitusbishi ecu does
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[02:04:45] <zeeshan> tracks the sensor even when the car shuts off
[02:04:50] <zeeshan> so the next start up is pretty instant
[02:04:59] <zeeshan> when people swap to an aem ems , they lost this ability
[02:05:02] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I am not seeing what is new there.
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[02:05:19] <furrywolf> also, I hate 3g.
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[02:05:34] <andypugh> I have already written the LinuxCNC module to do that, and the Inventor Macro to make the SVG.
[02:05:46] <furrywolf> why can they route your call between two towers, but they have to drop all your connections every time anything at all changes?
[02:06:06] <andypugh> And a friend is printing top-down with LinuxCNC and continuous Z-motion right now.
[02:06:32] <zeeshan> 39.567x 9.055
[02:07:05] <andypugh> (it took me some effort to persuade him to remove the colour wheel, but that’s given him a 5x speed boost)
[02:07:06] <furrywolf> I've often thought about building my own ECU... if I ever get a subaru diesel motor, I might do so. it's supposed to be a pain to make the stock ecu work - you have to swap in way too many parts of the original car. although some minor hacking would probably fix that...
[02:08:03] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: sounds like he was using resins sensitive to well under 420nm
[02:08:16] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: The problem with those printers is that it costs thousands to fill the vat
[02:08:46] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I make my own
[02:09:05] <andypugh> (The chap I am working with has found a way to float the resin on an inert and dense liquid)
[02:09:10] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: how big is his vat?
[02:09:49] <andypugh> It’s not huge. 10 litres or so?
[02:10:15] <furrywolf> I've never understood why photopolymers are so expensive. I don't think the materials or processes needed are any more costly than other materials available much, much cheaper, so it must be "because we can" pricing.
[02:10:16] <CaptHindsight> $500 in resin
[02:10:59] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: it depends on the resin, some components are $2/lb others $20
[02:11:00] <andypugh> furrywolf: It’s the photo-catalyst part.
[02:11:47] <CaptHindsight> nah photoinitiators are 25 cents per liter of resin
[02:12:02] <andypugh> Oh, OK.
[02:12:28] <furrywolf> I think it's "we're selling to researchers, corporations, and educational institutions, so we can add another zero".
[02:13:12] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: So, do your home-made ones cost $50 / litre?
[02:13:13] <CaptHindsight> some of the fancy ones are a few $ per liter of resin
[02:13:41] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: not home made, I mix them by the drum http://bucktownpolymers.com/
[02:14:55] <furrywolf> if you can make them that cheaply, you should start selling them to hobbyists at much, much less than market prices.
[02:15:48] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: we do, but hobby is lots of work for little return
[02:16:21] <CaptHindsight> $100 or resin for $200 in consulting time
[02:16:30] <andypugh> Ooh! Look at the time!
[02:16:37] <andypugh> Time I was asleep.
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[02:16:52] <Cromaglious> ugh broke another program... it want's QT4:4.7.x
[02:16:55] <CaptHindsight> don;t you have to be up soon?
[02:17:45] * furrywolf will need to keep CaptHindsight in mind if ever building a stl machine
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[02:19:00] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: commercial accounts buy 200Kg at a time
[02:20:00] <furrywolf> only raw material I've ever bought 200kg at once of was mild steel.
[02:20:05] <furrywolf> and wood.
[02:20:45] <Cromaglious> I usually get gravel 4 to 12 tones at a time
[02:21:00] <furrywolf> I've never bought gravel. that's something you get free.
[02:21:54] <Cromaglious> not clean crushed gravel. I can't use river rock, caleche, or base
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[02:22:29] <furrywolf> ah. I had a friend that worked at the quary, and he'd be happy to fill your truck up with anything they had a big mound of.
[02:22:38] <furrywolf> all I ever got was road base...
[02:22:44] <Cromaglious> natural pea gravel is too smooth and won't pack tight enought
[02:22:55] <furrywolf> the stuff that's pointy and has lots of clay, so it packs together tight and stays that way.
[02:23:09] <Cromaglious> I can't use base since to much clay. I need the fill to perk
[02:23:21] <Cromaglious> Perculate - drain
[02:23:46] <furrywolf> yes, I know.
[02:24:07] <furrywolf> actually, come to think of it, I did buy gravel once... for the filter pack at the bottom of my well. but that was a few bags, not 200kg. :)
[02:24:28] <CaptHindsight> what does gravel for, per (2k lb) ton?
[02:24:39] <CaptHindsight> sell for
[02:24:41] <Cromaglious> french drains I use smooth pea gravel, great filter
[02:24:58] <furrywolf> yeah, I used smooth washed pea gravel too.
[02:25:22] <Cromaglious> depends on hard far it travels... $15 to $60 a yard
[02:25:41] <Cromaglious> yard ~= 3300#'s
[02:25:53] <Cromaglious> s/hard/how/
[02:26:16] <furrywolf> someone I know decided to fill his f250 with road base... and I mean fill. it drove, kinda... lol
[02:26:22] <zeeshan> damn it
[02:26:24] <zeeshan> andy left
[02:26:37] <furrywolf> 8x5x3ft of road base >> 3/4 ton. :)
[02:26:41] <roycroft> gravel sells by the yard here, not the ton
[02:26:41] <CaptHindsight> well like 3:30 in the UK
[02:26:48] <Cromaglious> base is fun... Jello when damp, rock when dry
[02:26:51] <roycroft> 3/4 minus is $12.50/yard in small quantities
[02:27:05] <CaptHindsight> I'm not sure if he sleeps more than 4 hours a night
[02:27:41] <Cromaglious> 3/4- is great for dryways, not for pools
[02:27:47] <zeeshan> fuck i hate solidworks fea
[02:27:51] <furrywolf> I think that was the worst-overloaded full-size pickup I've ever seen.
[02:28:12] <Cromaglious> we usually get it via screen size here
[02:29:31] <furrywolf> come to think of it, this is the same friend that managed to roll his pickup trying to move a 40ft conex box on a 20ft trailer...
[02:29:56] <CaptHindsight> as a kids my friends dad would load up his VW bus with gravel, I don't know how we survived those trips back
[02:30:09] <Cromaglious> HAHA and you clame him as a friend. Not aquaintence?
[02:30:39] <Cromaglious> VW bus are rated at 1 ton
[02:30:45] <furrywolf> free advise: if you've loaded a trailer such that your back wheels are trying to lift up off the ground just sitting there, you're doing it wrong. :)
[02:30:49] <furrywolf> advice
[02:30:51] <Cromaglious> more than a 3/4 ton ford
[02:30:59] <CaptHindsight> i think the gravel was heavier than the whole VW bus
[02:31:27] <furrywolf> with the 40ft box on the 20ft trailer, >2/3rds of the weight was behind the axle on the trailer... meaning about -2000lbs tongue weight.
[02:32:39] <Cromaglious> 40' hmm tare on those is like 6800#
[02:33:19] <Cromaglious> never ever buy the short ones, get the 9.5' tall sea bins/connex/shipping container
[02:33:24] <furrywolf> the place he was getting the box from told him it was a fucking stupid idea. "it'll be fine". one of his other friends told him it'd be a fucking stupid idea. "it'll be fine!". "ok, I'm getting out my phone and filming it...".
[02:33:39] <furrywolf> he made it about a block, then tried turning. rear wheels lifted up, container kept going straight...
[02:33:40] <Cromaglious> hehe
[02:34:15] <furrywolf> the highway patrol was too dumbfounded to write him a ticket.
[02:34:16] <Cromaglious> he really needed a mule
[02:34:16] <Jymmm> Cromaglious: how much?
[02:34:29] <furrywolf> Cromaglious: "high cube".
[02:35:04] <Cromaglious> down here you can get a 40' painted in decent condition for $5K delivered
[02:35:29] <Jymmm> Cromaglious: decent? minmal dentss? rust?
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[02:35:48] <furrywolf> the highway patrol apparantly had some comments along the lines of "what were you thinking?!"
[02:35:55] <Cromaglious> boss got 2 40's cut down to 30' painted and delivered for 12K
[02:36:24] <Jymmm> painted to get rid of the markings?
[02:36:28] <Cromaglious> no holes no rust through
[02:36:37] <Jymmm> nice
[02:36:43] <Cromaglious> floor w/ no holes
[02:36:58] <furrywolf> I've always thought my friend would fit in very well in rural russia.
[02:37:03] <Cromaglious> nah, slow down rust and make them look better
[02:37:11] <Jymmm> ah ok
[02:37:27] <furrywolf> the land of "hold my vodka and watch this".
[02:37:40] <Jymmm> Cromaglious: corigated floor or plywood covered?
[02:37:48] <Cromaglious> alot of cities around here say you can't have them in residential areas, but don't say anything if they look pretty
[02:37:58] <Cromaglious> plywood
[02:38:02] <Jymmm> k
[02:38:06] <furrywolf> all the ones I've seen have been plywood. didn't know they made metal floored ones.
[02:38:13] <Jymmm> or, even make them you house =)
[02:38:23] <Cromaglious> I think it's Miller
[02:38:33] <furrywolf> no, they do not make good houses. that is a myth spread by wannabe hippies.
[02:38:43] <zeeshan> any of you guys recycle transformers before?
[02:38:56] <Cromaglious> no Marten
[02:38:58] <Jymmm> zeeshan: define recycle?
[02:39:00] <furrywolf> by the time you get it to a stage where you're not just living in a box, you've spent just as much as building a normal structure.
[02:39:04] <zeeshan> scrap
[02:39:07] <zeeshan> make money
[02:39:17] <furrywolf> sure I've recycled them... by taking them to the local scrapyard and putting them in a pile on their scale.
[02:39:21] <zeeshan> i went through my tansformers today along wit hthe scrap i got
[02:39:27] <zeeshan> they weight 650lb~
[02:39:30] <Jymmm> zeeshan: No, I just harvest the copper and out in a 5gal bucket
[02:39:39] <Jymmm> put*
[02:39:44] <zeeshan> im wondering if i can scrap them as is and make money
[02:39:49] <Cromaglious> martin http://www.container.com
[02:39:54] <zeeshan> without havning to through the hassle of going through breaking em apart for the copper
[02:40:05] <Jymmm> zeeshan: you'll make more money seperating the copper from the steel
[02:40:16] <zeeshan> the laminated steel isnt worth anything?
[02:40:20] <furrywolf> depends on what your time is worth.
[02:40:24] <zeeshan> that shit costs a fortune when you wanna buy some
[02:40:27] <zeeshan> for custom winding
[02:40:27] <Jymmm> zeeshan: if you have a lot of steel it is
[02:40:29] <furrywolf> the laminated steel is worth about $80/ton.
[02:40:40] <zeeshan> i found this one site near by that says this:
[02:41:08] <Cromaglious> clean copper is $2 a #,
[02:41:30] <furrywolf> Cromaglious: to buy, maybe... scrap prices have gone back down lately.
[02:41:44] <tjtr33> anyone know a model of 1 wire crankshaft sensor like andypugh was talkin bout? ~"direction based on mark/space"
[02:41:47] <Cromaglious> crap..
[02:41:48] <zeeshan> http://bomet.ca/files/20120427_BOMET_Price_Sheet_CAM_1255.pdf
[02:41:53] <zeeshan> oh nm
[02:41:56] <zeeshan> that price sheet is old as crap
[02:42:12] <Cromaglious> 2012 hehe sure is
[02:42:13] <furrywolf> I was amazed when I was shopping the other day, and they were selling 50ft 12/3 extension cords for $19.99 again.
[02:42:24] <zeeshan> but they they were giving 56 cents a lb
[02:43:27] <Cromaglious> tjtr33, hmmm must be some sort of inductance w/ a magner in the crank
[02:44:01] <zeeshan> http://www.scrapmonster.com/scrap-metal-prices/copper-scrap/copper-transformer-scrap/32
[02:45:16] <tjtr33> Cromaglious, thx, i understand the tech, but the direction isnt mention by Allegro in 1 wire . i was wondering who made it
[02:45:58] <furrywolf> I've dumped about 2lbs of scrap metal in the ditch out front in the last two weeks... electrolysis rust removal sure eats anodes!
[02:47:36] <Cromaglious> you tell direction by which way current goes or rise time... it's freacky math... My uncle actaully used it in a hard drive to tell wether a error was on the outside of the head or inide of the head on the platter
[02:48:20] <tjtr33> ok but he was saying it comes out mark/space like serial communication
[02:48:42] <tjtr33> i'll ask tomorry
[02:49:47] <furrywolf> hrmm, how could you implement limp-home on a car with only a crank sensor and no cam sensor? the best I've thought of is monitoring the battery voltage during cranking to determine compression strokes, repeatedly guessing which cylinder until it catches, then trying to watch for exhaust strokes with the o2 sensors (or their heaters) or similar funkyness...
[02:50:47] <Cromaglious> unless your magnets are segemented and you're getting a puuuulse-pulse-pulse on direction and pulse-pulse-puuuuulse the other
[02:51:17] <furrywolf> ohh! sample battery voltage fast enough to pick up the alternator 3ph ripple, then use the compression strokes monitored during cranking to determine the belt ratio.
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[02:52:16] <furrywolf> would still need to detect exhaust somehow... maybe run alternate cylinders rich and lean?
[02:52:42] <Cromaglious> on limp home, doesn't matter if you're on exhaust or compression... you fire plug at both times, and time mpi or tpi based on TPS
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[02:53:03] <furrywolf> Cromaglious: but with no crank sensor, you have to determine where the engine is somehow. :)
[02:53:20] <Cromaglious> using crank sensor
[02:53:42] <furrywolf> ... limp-home mode for a failed crank sensor.
[02:54:02] <furrywolf> and, no, displaying "call AAA" on the dash doesn't count.
[02:54:08] <Cromaglious> ahh... redundent
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[02:54:34] <Cromaglious> hmm multiple crank sensors
[02:55:16] <Cromaglious> you need timing unless you'
[02:55:24] <furrywolf> if you ran alternate cylinders rich and lean, with a modern lambda sensor, you should be able to detect their exhaust strokes, and derive timing from that... during cranking the battery voltage dips quite strongly with compression strokes...
[02:56:42] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG1X2sPU4LY
[02:56:43] <zeeshan> jeez
[02:56:44] <zeeshan> this guy is crazy
[02:56:56] <Cromaglious> induction sensor looking for counter weight on harmonic balancer
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[02:57:28] <furrywolf> yes, I know how to add more sensors. I mean how to NOT add more sensors. lol
[02:57:34] <Cromaglious> I still say use redundent systems for crank positioning
[02:57:49] <zeeshan> fuck now i want to find a friend with one of those crushers
[02:57:56] <zeeshan> to just throw all these in
[02:58:00] <furrywolf> hrmm, not your typical scrapper. around here there's a lot of overlap between scrappers and tweekers...
[02:58:10] <Cromaglious> magnet and a bolt with a coil is about as foolproof as you can get
[02:58:14] <zeeshan> and use magnet to sort out the steel
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[02:59:32] <Cromaglious> I'm presuming no distributor body
[03:02:24] <Cromaglious> 1 wire is a bolt with a coil grounded by the bolt. trigger by a magnet on a spinning part, crank, cam, distrbutor shaft, magnito drive, ....
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[03:04:40] <ffurrywol> <furrywolf> yes, again, I know how to add sensors. andy was talking about eliminating sensors to save money. I'm thinking about how limphome for a failed crank position sensor could be implemented with no additional sensors.
[03:06:21] <ffurrywol> zeeshan: build an inert gas filled furance, melt out the copper, cast it into blocks? :)
[03:06:24] <Cromaglious> So what sensors do we have
[03:06:31] <zeeshan> haha furrywolf
[03:06:33] <zeeshan> that would be sweet
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[03:06:38] <zeeshan> but im afraid that'd take more energy!
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[03:07:43] <ffurrywol> several people here are doing casting...
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[03:08:18] <Cromaglious> you could kinda guess crank position from manifold pulses...
[03:09:06] <furrywolf> Cromaglious: hrmm... throttle position, mass airflow, manifold pressure (maybe - still needed with maf?), intake air temp (integrated into maf), coolant temp, o2, and a failed crank position.
[03:09:27] <Cromaglious> anything off the engine would have to do a cogged belt
[03:09:55] <Cromaglious> O2 is too slow reacting
[03:10:21] <furrywolf> modern o2 sensors are pretty fast, and wide-range.
[03:10:29] <Cromaglious> it would have to be map and maf
[03:10:43] <zeeshan> why eliminate sensorz
[03:10:45] <zeeshan> they are so cheap!
[03:10:48] <zeeshan> junkyard win
[03:10:50] <furrywolf> I don't think a hotwire maf can respond fast enough to get any timing info
[03:11:13] <zeeshan> you dont need map w/ maf
[03:11:21] <zeeshan> a lot of mafs have a differential pressure sensor
[03:11:22] <Cromaglious> MAP does
[03:11:24] <zeeshan> for altitude compensation
[03:11:38] <zeeshan> but unless you're really in some mountainous area
[03:11:40] <zeeshan> i dont think that's needed
[03:11:43] <zeeshan> nor is intake air temp
[03:11:56] <furrywolf> what about half the cylinders rich, half lean? even a slow o2 sensor might notice that...
[03:12:12] <furrywolf> intake air temp is a fundamental part of hotwire maf sensors, so it's free
[03:12:19] <zeeshan> im talkin about maf
[03:12:42] <zeeshan> you're metering the actual air flow
[03:12:47] <zeeshan> so theres no guessing needed like with amp
[03:12:48] <zeeshan> *map
[03:13:02] <Cromaglious> yepfrom temp and mass and amount of air flow we can get RPMs
[03:13:03] <furrywolf> yes, I know. again, intake air temp is measured as part of how the maf sensor functions.
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[03:13:12] <zeeshan> ?
[03:13:46] <zeeshan> you must be thinking of a hotwire sensor
[03:13:50] <zeeshan> im thinking of a karman vortex
[03:13:57] <Cromaglious> use MAP to figure where crank is in cycle.
[03:13:59] <renesis> i think most maf are just flaps?
[03:14:11] <renesis> on a pot, maybe a hall sensor
[03:14:15] <Cromaglious> hot wire
[03:14:30] <Cromaglious> all the ones I ever see are all hot wire
[03:14:39] <renesis> shrug
[03:14:49] <furrywolf> I think I only said hotwire like four times. :P
[03:14:52] <zeeshan> yea mitsus, beamers and toyotas
[03:14:58] <zeeshan> seem to be the ones using karman vortex
[03:15:08] <zeeshan> my ls engine used to use a cold wire
[03:15:11] <furrywolf> flap-based sensors are very outdated, and I don't know if they've been put on anything in 30 years...
[03:15:14] <zeeshan> my 240sx used a hot wire
[03:15:32] <renesis> ha, all the shit ive worked on is about that old
[03:15:38] <renesis> my newer shit just worked
[03:16:06] <furrywolf> I've never seen a vortex sensor... I've seen them for measuring flow in industrial plumbing, but never in a car.
[03:16:27] <zeeshan> theyre a pain in the ass
[03:16:38] <zeeshan> if you provide turbulent airflow
[03:16:41] <zeeshan> they go nuts
[03:16:52] <furrywolf> I know they make them, I've just never seen one. heh.
[03:17:03] <furrywolf> yeah, it seems like a finnicky design.
[03:17:44] <zeeshan> know the big problem with maf?
[03:17:46] <furrywolf> hrmm, how about a knock sensor? I bet you could get timing out of it.
[03:17:46] <zeeshan> vac leak
[03:17:47] <zeeshan> bam they got nuts
[03:17:52] <zeeshan> *go
[03:18:11] <renesis> http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/afm/afm[1].gif
[03:18:14] <renesis> haha 280z
[03:18:19] <Rab> Volvo changed from flap (K-Jet) to hot wire (Bosch L-Jetronic) in 1983, IIRC.
[03:18:25] <zeeshan> my understanding of knock sensors are they are tuned to resonate at a particular frequency
[03:18:42] <renesis> rab: yeah my volvo just worked until it blew head gasket
[03:18:44] <furrywolf> k-jet should DIE. every car with k-jet should be crushed, then burned, just to make sure no part of it ever operates again.
[03:18:47] <renesis> not an efi issue, heh
[03:18:55] <Rab> I fit an '84 engine into an '82 240, merging the wiring harnesses was interesting.
[03:19:22] <Rab> furrywolf, I know people who love k-jet, but my first-hand experience tends to agree.
[03:19:46] <renesis> i couldnt remember how the crx was done and then i remembered it had a carb
[03:19:48] <renesis> =\
[03:19:54] <Cromaglious> KJet 2.0, 2.2, and 2,4liter H4 vw bus/type 4, 914 engines were a fire waiting to happen
[03:19:56] <zeeshan> i think crx is a map sensor
[03:19:56] <furrywolf> I've never seen a k-jetronic vehicle operating at even the level a dirty, gummed-up carb would provide.
[03:19:59] <zeeshan> a lot of hondas are map
[03:20:07] <renesis> 50mpg factory! 35mpg driving it into the dirt!
[03:20:25] <renesis> zeeshan: i had an HF, it had a cvcc head
[03:20:41] <furrywolf> they're fucking ALWAYS lean, rich, hard to start, flooding, leaking, needing seals, needing cold start solenoids, failing emissions miserably, surging, stalling,...
[03:21:02] <renesis> the first time i had the valve cover off the first reaction was OH SHIT HEADS ON BACKWARDS, silly intake ports on the wrong side
[03:21:57] <furrywolf> needing stupid fuel regulator, needing pumps, needing hoses, needing o-rings, dumping fuel in the oil, dumping fuel on the engine, failing to provide full fuel flow, hesitating,...
[03:22:11] <furrywolf> I mean, is there any problem k-jetronic _doesn't_ always have?
[03:22:22] <Rab> furrywolf, that's normal operation. There are also awesome failure modes, eg when the system frontfires and slams the flap shut, breaking its stop and destroying normal operation with that system forevermore.
[03:22:31] <furrywolf> lol
[03:22:46] <renesis> cant you glue a new stop?!
[03:22:55] <furrywolf> actually, I think that is a backfire... out the exhaust is a frontfire...
[03:23:07] <renesis> wot
[03:23:30] <Rab> It's all pot metal, you would have to get really creative with some JB Weld or something. And the seat has to be pretty close to airtight.
[03:23:34] <furrywolf> renesis: it's not an external part that's broken. it's a part built into the fuel distributor. and other stuff would break too...
[03:24:13] <furrywolf> k-jet is by far the least reliable fuel system I've ever seen. it makes an old hit-and-miss engine look like mpfi...
[03:24:38] <Rab> furrywolf, your usage of backfire/frontfire is entirely novel to me.
[03:24:45] <renesis> k jet is 2nd bosch system?
[03:25:39] <furrywolf> renesis: k is the continuous injection system, where they used a vane to operate valves to meter fuel without the use of any electronics.
[03:25:49] * furrywolf googles on backfires
[03:25:54] <renesis> hmm weird
[03:26:12] <renesis> i thought 914 used 1st and 2nd bosche efi systems
[03:26:22] <furrywolf> mechanical fuel injection, no electronics at all.
[03:26:43] <renesis> but i think 914 used D and L, so skipped K
[03:26:45] <Rab> renesis, like this: http://s146.photobucket.com/user/smak101/media/fuel_dissy.gif.html
[03:27:16] <renesis> heh
[03:29:00] <furrywolf> wikipedia says backfire is in the intake, afterfire is in the exhaust
[03:29:14] <renesis> so D is analog electronics manifold pressure based, and L is that plus flap flow sensor
[03:29:27] <Rab> Only until they revert your edit. ;)
[03:30:33] <renesis> guys should i sell the totally reliable sportish toyota thing and buy a 914?
[03:30:40] <renesis> i have no place to work on a car
[03:30:46] <Rab> That does look like a long edit, though.
[03:30:59] <furrywolf> you're welcome to google it, just like I did. lol
[03:31:19] <renesis> fuck what wiki says a backfire is a car fart
[03:31:25] <renesis> it comes out the exhaust
[03:31:55] <renesis> intake backfire is just a noise that sounds like a backfire
[03:31:55] <furrywolf> no, a backfire is where the fire travels _back up the intake_.
[03:32:16] <renesis> that makes sense but youre still wrong
[03:32:18] <renesis> i decided
[03:32:18] <furrywolf> afterfire is when the exhaust, after the engine, re-fires. heh.
[03:32:21] <furrywolf> lol
[03:32:34] <furrywolf> best. argument. ever.
[03:33:37] * furrywolf will now use "that makes sense but youre still wrong" "i decided" to end arguments.
[03:34:09] <renesis> you will need to pay licensing fees
[03:34:23] <furrywolf> http://www.6crew.com/forum/showthread.php?21978-Tech-Info-Afterfire-vs-Backfire-%28Clearing-up-the-common-Misconception%29 seems to have a nice writeup on it
[03:34:33] <renesis> or after saying it you can say an sponsor slogan
[03:34:37] <renesis> like wesley willis
[03:35:15] <furrywolf> as a note, I've seen actual backfires plenty of times... including having to snuff out several burning carbs.
[03:35:36] <Rab> You never truly own a vehicle until you've set it on fire.
[03:35:59] <furrywolf> "quick, crank it again, so it sucks the flame back down before the filter catches" is standard response, but if that doesn't work, a towel or gloved hands are next.
[03:37:38] <renesis> or i could buy a 928
[03:37:49] <renesis> i will prob have to replace all the electrical things
[03:38:12] <renesis> and probably most of the mechanical things
[03:38:43] <renesis> need like a 2 parts car magazine in that parts cannon
[03:38:54] <furrywolf> if you want to replace all the electrical things, buy a jag.
[03:38:57] <furrywolf> lucas++
[03:39:09] <renesis> or i could buy a 914 and then just buy the wheels from a 928
[03:39:21] <renesis> why would i want to blow time and money on a jag
[03:39:29] <renesis> when youre done, you have a jag
[03:39:53] <furrywolf> you buy a jag because you want to replace every single part that involves electricity
[03:39:57] <renesis> http://www.928motorsports.com/identify/928-sdiagram.jpg
[03:40:17] <renesis> i wanna hug it and take it for walks in the park and roll around with it in the grass
[03:40:51] <renesis> and thats just standard with 80s luxury stuff
[03:40:54] * furrywolf googles for a page of lucas jokes
[03:40:58] <renesis> none of that shit works anymore
[03:41:24] <renesis> and lucas is prob so bad for flat 4 air cooling
[03:41:38] <furrywolf> http://www4.ncsu.edu/~mtmorris/index3.html
[03:42:34] <furrywolf> as a general rule, you can expect to find any vehicle with lucas electrics to have most things nonfunctional, and about half the wiring harness burnt.
[03:43:06] <renesis> yes but you dont understand
[03:43:28] <renesis> after fixing all the things, you have a v8 front engine porsche that looks crazy sexy
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[03:43:37] <renesis> honestly a 924 would be more responsible
[03:43:55] <furrywolf> I've owned a couple german vehicles. I never will again.
[03:43:56] <renesis> and they have the 50/50 weight transaxle thing
[03:44:33] <renesis> heh, my dads 914 caught on fire
[03:44:58] <renesis> my brothers didnt tho!
[03:45:28] <renesis> or i can get another 280z
[03:45:51] <renesis> magical death trap
[03:46:21] <renesis> now i can afford one without rusty floorboards and black widows
[03:46:45] <renesis> i prob just buy a miata
[03:46:51] <renesis> =\
[03:48:04] <furrywolf> buy a subaru wrx. it's faster than all those and doesn't suck.
[03:59:25] <renesis> they break
[03:59:30] <renesis> i dont really want awd
[03:59:45] <renesis> i do want reference handling and interface
[04:01:32] <renesis> fuck
[04:01:45] <renesis> i wonder if its bad to ask a dead friends wife if you can buy his car
[04:02:04] <renesis> he has a black wrx
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[04:03:23] <CaptHindsight> what is the appropriate amount to wait until it's ok to ask?
[04:03:36] <renesis> i dunno
[04:03:54] <CaptHindsight> few weeks?
[04:04:00] <renesis> maybe already sold, but i dont think they were hurting for money
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[04:04:17] <renesis> well ceramony was not even two weeks ago
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[04:04:36] <renesis> i would have to get her email from someone
[04:05:44] <CaptHindsight> wasn't this a Seinfeld episode?
[04:05:56] <furrywolf> it depends on how you word it. "now that that prick's gone, can I get his car?" won't go over well. "I've been thinking that if you need help clearning out his belongings, I'd be interested in purchasing his vehicle" might go over better.
[04:05:56] <renesis> with cars? i dont remember
[04:06:09] <renesis> we were both into driving
[04:06:43] <renesis> i would just ask if it wasnt sold already
[04:07:31] <CaptHindsight> roses are read violets are blue now that hes gone are you going to drive two?
[04:07:44] <furrywolf> lol
[04:07:51] <CaptHindsight> nah too halmark
[04:08:09] <renesis> if its just sitting there im sure my friend and the car would be happier if it was being used
[04:08:20] <renesis> and i dont think i would even have to convince her of that
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[04:08:48] <renesis> i think he finally sold it tho
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[04:12:11] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
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[06:55:10] <Deejay> moin
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[09:14:55] <XXCoder1> sigh hate when dings scroll out
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[10:27:23] <MrSunshine> hmm any nice tools i could use .. i have a piece that is a given length, and its arched with a given angle in the ends, and a given height .. to bend this line smoothly ... dont know how to explain it realy .. hmm =)
[10:30:50] <MrSunshine> http://postimg.org/image/z8kjfbbfh/ where L is the length of the piece, H is the height in middle of arch and the ANG is the angle .. and its not a perfect arch realy =) tho .. i guess piece of an arch
[10:32:42] <MrSunshine> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_segment i guess =)
[10:32:51] <MrSunshine> tho i might ahve to modify the angle at the ends later
[10:33:05] <MrSunshine> as this is roughly done by my father 25 years ago ... =)
[10:37:04] <archivist> small press tool and a set of dies
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[11:09:42] <archivist> most metals spring back, so needs to over bend a bit
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[11:19:09] <_eventor> anybody out there who can help me with install whezzy and linuxcnc
[11:20:06] <_eventor> my problem is: PC can not boot from usb and has only normal CD Drive
[11:21:20] <_eventor> the live image is to big, where can i get the right "only" wheezy install image?
[11:24:55] <RyanS> ahh Australia, the land where used tools are not much cheaper than brand new http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Starrett-Machinists-Level-12-Inch-300mm-No-98-/191542981283?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEDWX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=heieg5KZvKLW14PVNLAJc%252BcnHvs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
[11:26:22] <_eventor> is debian 7.8.0 the rigth os, or is it not "whezzy" ?
[11:30:12] <archivist> cant you find a dvd drive from some old pc?
[11:31:42] <_eventor> not at the moment, all others are notebooks :-(
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[13:54:38] <ssi> morn
[14:24:02] <zeeshan> zzz
[14:26:46] <ssi> zzzeeeeeeessshhhaaannn
[14:27:22] <zeeshan> RyanS: wow that sold for a lot
[14:27:27] <zeeshan> thsoe go for about 80-100 here
[14:28:13] <archivist> au dolla not worth so much so looks worse than it is
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[14:50:15] <zeeshan> http://www.vandykebros.com/images/worldslargest/502.jpg
[14:50:33] <zeeshan> you know a transformer is serious when it needs cooling like that
[14:51:29] <archivist> usually they would pipe it to separate coolers, seems a dumb design
[14:51:52] <archivist> and define largest
[14:55:43] <zeeshan> so i have like 650lb of transformers and local places are giving a max of .30c/lb
[14:55:53] <zeeshan> $195..
[14:56:06] <zeeshan> if i assume theres about 35% copper in the transformers,
[14:56:36] <malcom2073> By weight? Iron cores are fairly heavy
[14:56:48] <zeeshan> 227.5lb , they are paying 2.75/lb
[14:56:56] <zeeshan> thats $625!
[14:57:23] <zeeshan> it might be worth taking them apart
[14:58:11] <archivist> a few years back when surviving on scrap I got good at transformer stripping
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[14:58:40] <zeeshan> seems like a time consuming process :/
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[14:59:06] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Is it me or does that transformer seem a bit heavy?
[14:59:19] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: its a whole bunch of transformers
[14:59:27] <zeeshan> i should take a pic
[14:59:33] <zeeshan> they're sitting insde my beater car
[15:00:03] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: I was referring to the link you posted prior.
[15:00:08] <zeeshan> o
[15:00:19] <zeeshan> yea apparently it is 1.1million pounds
[15:00:37] <FinboySlick> I wonder how much of that is copper.
[15:00:47] <zeeshan> i think from what ive read
[15:00:58] <zeeshan> it can vary from anywhere from 25%-40% copper
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[16:40:53] <DaPeace> helllooo :-)
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[16:42:01] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAQ0ewhZWs4 $750M to build this automated parking lot
[16:43:39] <DaPeace> hey guys. anybody around here that could give me a hint how i could add a hardwarebutton to pause/resume that is connected to the par-port?
[16:44:15] <DaPeace> i cant get it to work because im not sure how i could communicate with the par-port-pins..
[16:45:56] <CaptHindsight> DaPeace: you don't want e-stop, you want to pause and resume of programs while running?
[16:47:36] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?One_Button_Run/Resume
[16:48:01] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/47-hal-examples/13201-runstep-holdresume-buttons
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[16:51:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150331-chinese-company-prism3d-unveils-super-fast-sla-3d-printer.html
[16:52:05] <CaptHindsight> 2.7L/hr
[16:52:56] <_methods> 2.7 secs until lawsuit
[16:55:25] <CaptHindsight> from China, so no problems until you import them here
[16:56:10] <CaptHindsight> and Envisiontec doesn't offer a competitive model even though they hold the US patent
[16:56:15] <DaPeace> CaptHindsight: yes. estop is working. but my problem is that i cant really figure out how to modify the examples so it matches my config
[16:56:32] <DaPeace> ive already found those tutorials
[16:58:05] <CaptHindsight> _methods: that's another bad part of out current patent system here, you don't have to sell systems that follow the patent or do it well
[16:58:15] <DaPeace> in stepperconf ive added a digital0-input for the pin i want to use.. in .hal-file i get din-00 => motion.digital-in-00 but i cant use any of that button-names to add pause/resume because when starting axis it tells me motion.digital-in-00 is already connected to din-00
[16:59:02] <_methods> yeah
[16:59:15] <CaptHindsight> DaPeace: post your configs on pastebin, you might ave to manually edit them
[16:59:30] <Jymmm> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20141105-mazak-unveiled-hybrid-metal-3d-printer-with-multiple-heads.html
[16:59:39] <_methods> the good news is that link led me to that mazak link
[16:59:55] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqSk6Bla-lU
[17:00:05] <_methods> that integrex i200s video is cool too
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[17:00:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20141105-mazak-unveiled-hybrid-metal-3d-printer-with-multiple-heads.html
[17:01:10] <DaPeace> CaptHindsight: http://pastebin.com/JcrtdeiF
[17:01:17] <DaPeace> this is the hal-file..
[17:01:30] <DaPeace> thats what stepperconf put out.. unedited
[17:01:30] <_methods> too bad it's mazak
[17:01:58] <DaPeace> ahh moment.. edited… ive marked out #net din-00 for testing.. but didnt really work..
[17:03:18] <CaptHindsight> _methods: there's lots of great working 3d print tech, the problem is the patents, the holders don't cooperate with each other or don't care about making printers to make things better, they just want profit now
[17:03:53] <_methods> seems to be a common problem
[17:04:09] <_methods> but they will all become irrelevant as the real cnc makers start to ramp up this additive tech
[17:04:14] <_methods> like that mazak and dmg
[17:04:22] <_methods> they better make all the money they can now
[17:04:25] <CaptHindsight> that's why that whole America Makes thing in Ohio is a joke
[17:04:48] <als> Can i use a parameter in a sub name and + 1 to it each time to call a new o sub
[17:04:51] <CaptHindsight> https://americamakes.us/
[17:05:36] <CaptHindsight> better named "Amerika Makes Money"
[17:05:50] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADqDMwQOc2w
[17:05:55] <CaptHindsight> prints it anyway
[17:05:55] <_methods> daishin 5 axis
[17:06:28] <_methods> would be nice to be an applications guy working for one of these companies
[17:06:36] <_methods> get to program silly stuff
[17:07:31] <Jymmm> _methods: cnc porn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_qHR_H_2cg
[17:07:41] <_methods> heheh
[17:07:42] <_methods> indeed
[17:08:35] <_methods> that's a chunk
[17:09:29] <Jymmm> _methods: That's junior, you haven't even seen Big Daddy yet.
[17:09:42] <_methods> dmg makes some slick machines
[17:10:20] <_methods> that that tool chain
[17:10:22] <_methods> sick
[17:10:23] <DaPeace> CaptHindsight: you have any hint for me? maybe a very basic tutorial how i could add pause to a parport-pin? would help me very much..
[17:11:15] <als> net it to halui pause
[17:11:45] <CaptHindsight> DaPeace: I'm not really here, so you might get an answer from someone here or try posting this to the forums with your files
[17:11:56] <DaPeace> ok. thank you CaptHindsight
[17:12:20] <als> have U tried net to halui
[17:12:20] <Jymmm> _methods: The John Homes / Ron Jeremy of cnc porn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MFRPGf4JDk
[17:12:43] <_methods> hahah
[17:12:54] <Jymmm> aka Big Daddy
[17:13:05] <als> DaPeace, have U tried net halui
[17:13:25] <DaPeace> not really. i try to find the right syntax to get that working
[17:13:51] <_methods> only 50 tools
[17:13:52] <_methods> wtf
[17:14:15] <DaPeace> ive got it to work to controll the cnc with an old joypad but now when i try to get it to work with these 2 buttons i cant really figure it out..
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[17:15:25] <CaptHindsight> peek-a-boo toolchanger
[17:16:38] <malcom2073> _methods: optional 100, 140, 180 :P
[17:17:23] <dirty_d> is R8 actually repeatable in Z?
[17:17:38] <dirty_d> or will it vary a little every time you put it in and out
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[17:18:36] <als> DaPeace, halui.program.pause (bit, in) - pin for pausing a program
[17:19:51] <Jymmm> _methods: Now THAT's cnc pron, mlay
[17:20:44] <Jymmm> Oh, who said you can't get/do micron tolerance on the cheap... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFrVdoOhu1Q
[17:21:40] <CaptHindsight> is there such a thing as a circumference segment? http://www.tpub.com/math1/18.htm26.gif what would you call the outer face of a cylinder only contained by the arc segment?
[17:21:42] <DaPeace> als my problem is the pin.. i cant figure out what the connect name is for pin 14 of the parport.. i think thats my biggest problem
[17:21:55] <dirty_d> https://img.pandawhale.com/post-42904-thats-accurate-gif-Imgur-Djang-gXBS.gif
[17:23:57] <dirty_d> dat suction
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[17:29:42] <als> DaPeace, #net runsignal parport.1.pin-12-in-not halui.program.run
[17:30:06] <als> DaPeace, something like that
[17:32:16] <DaPeace> okay.. thats working so far.. parport.0.pin-15-in-not halui-program.pause
[17:32:25] <DaPeace> thats a good start to add pause/resume
[17:32:27] <DaPeace> thanks als
[17:32:31] <als> yep
[17:33:03] <DaPeace> those hal-programming is a little like rocketscience for me..
[17:33:14] <dirty_d> yea its pretty confusing at first
[17:33:42] <dirty_d> DaPeace, you know you can plug in like a playstation controller or something and use that for control too
[17:34:09] <DaPeace> yes i know. and i got that working already. i used an old xbox1-controller for that
[17:34:16] <dirty_d> ahh
[17:34:37] <DaPeace> that was a little easier to understand than adding hardwarebuttons..
[17:35:16] <DaPeace> i need a pause/resume-button so i could quickly stop the machine.. estop is working but that was really easy because stepperconf did that..
[17:36:31] <dirty_d> wow, thats a huge surface plate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwdoUjynpEk
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[17:36:36] <dirty_d> must weight a ton
[17:36:54] <dirty_d> DaPeace, yea i should probably add that too
[17:37:23] <dirty_d> mine just jogs and stuff for now, gonna add setting work offsets and stuff too though
[17:37:37] <DaPeace> gamepad is nice to move the spindle to a position but grabbing it in emergency is little not so handy :-D
[17:37:40] <dirty_d> different buttons for different diameter edge finders etc
[17:37:47] <dirty_d> right
[17:38:09] <dirty_d> and left/right/front/back side
[17:38:57] <DaPeace> at the moment im waiting for a tb6600-chip… need to change one on my china-board.. burned out or something.. z-axis out of order. cant really do something with my cnc at the moment :-/
[17:39:15] <dirty_d> i had those, one burned out too
[17:39:21] <dirty_d> just ended up getting keling drivers
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[17:39:44] <dirty_d> the tb6600 isnt bad, but the actual board on mine was just reall poorly designed
[17:40:15] <DaPeace> ive ordered 2 single-drivers from china now but they need too long… so ive ordered 1 chip, desoldered it from the board and now i hope i get the new one soldered in correctly..
[17:40:41] <dirty_d> talking about these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Single-Axis-TB6600-0-2-5A-CNC-Engraving-Machine-Driver-Controller-Stepper-Motor-/321454918858?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad834ccca
[17:41:07] <DaPeace> i think i ordered different one
[17:41:42] <dirty_d> does yours have like 5 diodes inside?
[17:41:50] <DaPeace> http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6573310391.html?orderId=66507655866686
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[17:42:02] <dirty_d> oh, that looks a lot better
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[17:42:26] <DaPeace> thats what ive ordered now.. but a already own a 3-axis-board.. http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6438184232.html?orderId=65354757586686
[17:42:28] <DaPeace> that one
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[17:42:51] <DaPeace> and there the z-axis is gone.. after some weeks of testing and playing around
[17:43:59] <dirty_d> ahh
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[17:48:04] <Jymmm> Carvey Desktop CNC https://www.inventables.com/technologies/carvey
[17:48:31] <XXCoder1> fancy
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[17:48:48] <XXCoder1> $900 probably
[17:49:00] <XXCoder1> + $1000 lol
[17:49:07] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIDNPNKuXgg
[17:50:13] <XXCoder1> tool touchoff included
[17:50:21] <XXCoder1> small though
[17:51:28] <XXCoder1> Jymmm: your design? or planning to buy?
[17:51:52] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Neither, just came across it from another video
[17:52:22] <XXCoder1> 2k I would expect a little bit more
[17:52:25] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: What I was more curious about was EASLE software
[17:53:28] <XXCoder1> cool
[17:53:43] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: "From your BROWSER" http://www.easel.com/
[17:53:55] <XXCoder1> yeah
[17:54:18] <XXCoder1> if I recall its basic cam software
[17:54:23] <XXCoder1> as well as designer a bit
[17:56:06] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCUHsJ4Ktj0
[17:56:25] <XXCoder1> looking
[17:57:33] <XXCoder1> interesting
[17:58:34] <XXCoder1> guy talked about makercam in comments so looking there now
[17:58:41] <XXCoder1> oh it dont need signup nice
[18:00:42] <XXCoder1> no way to position item exactly thouggh
[18:01:25] <Jymmm> which?
[18:01:31] <XXCoder1> makercam
[18:01:35] <Jymmm> Ah
[18:01:48] <Jymmm> EASEL looks more "complete" anywya
[18:01:53] <XXCoder1> it is
[18:02:12] <Jymmm> and nothign to install it looks like, all in a browser
[18:02:15] <XXCoder1> I bet makercam makes for convient svg to toolpath convertor though
[18:02:33] <XXCoder1> and inkscape superpower is svgs lol
[18:02:39] <XXCoder1> I'm quite good on inkscape.
[18:03:18] <Jymmm> Well, EASEL is what I was curious about specifically. It's VERY "ArtCAM" like
[18:03:44] <XXCoder1> looking into artcam now
[18:04:26] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: ArtCAM starts at $6000USD and up.
[18:04:39] <XXCoder1> not surpised
[18:05:11] <Jymmm> But Easel just knocks it out of the block for open source
[18:05:26] <XXCoder1> I hope solvespace will evenually support more
[18:05:30] <Jymmm> Mind you ArtCAM can do 3D
[18:05:32] <XXCoder1> its pretty amazing
[18:05:37] <Jymmm> not just 2.5d
[18:06:08] <Jymmm> Anyhow, thought I'd share =)
[18:06:10] <XXCoder1> solvespace can do 3d already, but no toolpathc export besides 2d
[18:06:20] <XXCoder1> thanks
[18:07:00] <Jymmm> Since carvey can do gcode, I suspect that anyone could use easel for their ghettoCNC machine
[18:07:11] <XXCoder1> yeah
[18:07:19] <XXCoder1> free right? seemed so
[18:07:32] <dirty_d> XXCoder1, i doublt solvespace will get developed any more
[18:07:38] <Jymmm> Yeah, but I can't find the download or repository
[18:07:50] <XXCoder1> yeah? too bad dirty_d
[18:08:05] <ssi> XXCoder1: you do the soylent thing, don't you?
[18:08:08] <Jymmm> I didn't look THAT hard thogh
[18:08:10] <XXCoder1> ssi: yeah
[18:08:13] <ssi> how is it
[18:08:50] <dirty_d> XXCoder1, i ran into problems making more complex parts with solvespace too
[18:09:08] <dirty_d> once the sketch got complex enough it would kinda explode
[18:09:21] <dirty_d> solver couldnt solve it if you moved something just a little
[18:09:29] <_methods> CaptHindsight: i think that is a chordal arc
[18:09:34] <XXCoder1> ssi: well one thing to understand is that it's not made to be yummy. I usually add choculute powder to mix to taste better
[18:09:45] <XXCoder1> but yeah been great though
[18:09:53] <ssi> you do it for 100% of meals?
[18:09:55] <XXCoder1> 1.4 is even better! no more oil bottles
[18:10:12] <XXCoder1> not yet, too lazy to do more than one meal for work lol
[18:10:29] <XXCoder1> there is many that do 100% and no problems
[18:10:32] <dirty_d> can you buy that stuff without waiting 6 months yet?
[18:10:41] <XXCoder1> dirty_d: yep its down to couple weeks
[18:10:46] <ssi> they're claiming 4 weeks
[18:10:48] <dirty_d> i wanted to try it
[18:10:48] <XXCoder1> they mostly caught up
[18:11:01] <ssi> but there's community recipes, and they have tools to dump an entire order into amazon
[18:11:05] <dirty_d> maybe ill wait a little
[18:11:06] <ssi> which could be interesting to try
[18:11:07] <XXCoder1> order now and wait a bit - order single week
[18:11:15] <dirty_d> let any kinks get worked out with the "beta testers"
[18:11:16] <dirty_d> lol
[18:11:22] <XXCoder1> its small enough to afford
[18:11:29] <XXCoder1> dirty_d: 1.4 is major imporoivment
[18:11:49] <XXCoder1> dirty_d: been using since 1.1
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[18:45:49] <ssi> XXCoder1: I ordered a week
[18:46:15] <XXCoder1> nice. just adjust to it slowly, start one meal a day with rest being usual
[18:46:21] <XXCoder1> increase till 100%
[18:46:33] <XXCoder1> or maybe be like me and use it as amazing convient work meal
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[18:48:59] <ssi> that's my plan
[18:49:03] <ssi> I have nothing to eat at work :(
[18:49:32] <XXCoder1> no vend machines full of unhealthy food?>
[18:49:47] <XXCoder1> I miss my old intrnship site, they got amazing vend machines
[18:50:02] <ssi> yeah there's a vending machine
[18:50:08] <ssi> my only option for lunch today is a honeybun hahah
[18:50:12] <ssi> but I'm trying to avoid that
[18:50:13] <XXCoder1> yummy
[18:50:16] <XXCoder1> lol yeah
[18:50:48] <XXCoder1> last thursday I had to get big az hamburger because I ran out of soylent. thankfully it arrived that day (but after I left)
[18:52:04] <XXCoder1> ssi: first order is slow but once you get your week it will be much faster
[18:52:04] <Cromaglious> mmmm Soylent green makes me hungry
[18:52:22] <XXCoder1> that order took only 3 days to arrive
[18:53:07] <_methods> ugh thx to the army i can't even look at honey buns
[18:53:18] <XXCoder1> I remember star crunch
[18:53:25] <XXCoder1> I used to eat that so often
[18:54:17] <XXCoder1> ssi: I highly suggest get blender bottle, it has blender ball so its so easy to mix up soylent in
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[18:54:53] <XXCoder1> add water till above ball, add powder, add some more water, mix then fill with water, mix some more then stick in ref for 2 hours
[18:55:08] <XXCoder1> I mix mine on first break and its ready by lunch
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[19:05:22] <ssi> XXCoder1: I have blender bottles
[19:05:27] <XXCoder1> nice
[19:05:41] <ssi> _methods: we call honeybuns "airport steaks"
[19:05:56] <XXCoder1> I do highly recommand 2 hours rest time. no idea why but it don't taste as good fresh.
[19:06:09] <ssi> haha ok
[19:06:26] <_methods> hahah
[19:07:00] <_methods> they would always have those nasty things at the field chow halls
[19:07:15] <_methods> cases of honey buns
[19:07:43] <XXCoder1> I couldnt eat honey buns ore than once a week. star crunch is worse but in least I could eat em eevryday.
[19:08:25] <ssi> _methods: when you're flying ten hours trying to get somewhere, and the only option at fuel stops is a vending machine, the honeybun is the bang for the buck
[19:08:35] <_methods> yeah
[19:08:44] <_methods> that sux
[19:08:48] <zeeshan> anyone have a renishaw probe?
[19:08:58] <_methods> i had one sold it on ebay
[19:09:01] <_methods> tp9
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[19:09:09] <zeeshan> im a bit confused on all the models
[19:09:15] <ssi> yeah theer's a million
[19:09:17] <zeeshan> i see the jcp version is something they recommend for manual machines
[19:09:18] <_methods> that's highly likely lol
[19:09:28] <zeeshan> but it needs metal work piece
[19:09:39] <zeeshan> the omp series probes, will they work with non metallics?
[19:09:44] <XXCoder1> cmm probe
[19:10:15] <_methods> no idea
[19:10:28] <_methods> you'll have to do your homework on that
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[19:22:39] <archivist> renishaw has lots of docs on their site
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[19:27:46] <XXCoder1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uCy0NEbJf4s
[19:27:52] <XXCoder1> might be my next cnc LOL
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[19:32:33] <Jymmm> YAY!!!
[19:33:46] <XXCoder1> though I wonder if it is better to just get all out of can and make custom cheese extruder
[19:33:50] <XXCoder1> better control.
[19:34:07] <_methods> don't think about it too much
[19:34:22] <_methods> you'll only do permanent damage
[19:34:27] <Jymmm> Nacho cheese comes in #10 cans too =)
[19:34:28] <XXCoder1> I hate whiz, I would rather make real cheese printer lol
[19:34:36] <_methods> your brain will fill with cheeze whiz
[19:34:51] <_methods> damn see now you got Jymmm thinking
[19:35:27] <Jymmm> That be SIX POUNDS of CHEESY GOODNESS
[19:35:33] <XXCoder1> lol
[19:35:53] <Jymmm> CNC Nachos?
[19:36:04] <_methods> slap an auger in that 10# can
[19:36:45] <Rab> I don't think you'll get satisfactory 3D cheese printing without a phase change.
[19:36:47] <Jymmm> Nah, french press style pluncher
[19:36:57] <Jymmm> plunger
[19:37:22] <FinboySlick> I'm not sure about printing nachos, but I think there's a distinct value in pick-and-place nacho construction, that way you get just the right amount of all the ingredients on every chip.
[19:37:25] <Rab> How about subtractive laser cheese sculpting?
[19:37:28] <Jymmm> Rab: Fine, we'll add a bloworch
[19:38:04] <FinboySlick> Plus, you should already have an oven nearby :)
[19:38:19] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: This is nachos, not pizza
[19:38:29] <Rab> http://www.news.wisc.edu/9295
[19:38:34] <FinboySlick> Nachos go in the oven.
[19:39:43] <_methods> this is all your fault XXCoder1
[19:39:51] <XXCoder1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-jGIal505A
[19:39:55] <Jymmm> Rab: That's a waste of a laser, waterjet works far better
[19:40:26] <Jymmm> Rab: including cutting sandwiches in half
[19:40:39] <XXCoder1> water soaked sandwinches
[19:40:47] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: not at all actually
[19:41:28] <Rab> Jymmm, I see what you're saying, but I'm hoping the laser will crisp the edges of the cheese for flavor enhancement. Wet cheese is just gross.
[19:42:21] <Jymmm> Rab: lol
[19:42:48] <Jymmm> Rab: http://www.burntimpressions.com/toasted-selfies.php
[19:43:53] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I think Jesus used one of those once.
[19:43:53] <XXCoder1> lol selfie toaster
[19:44:00] <XXCoder1> yeah
[19:44:20] <XXCoder1> anyway just get one of those, then figure how to cnc mill new ones
[19:45:43] <_methods> it ain't easy bein cheezie
[19:58:53] <XXCoder1> jeez https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJbizELHYQ
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[20:13:03] <Jymmm> Do these people even have a fucking clue?! Really, cnc full sheet stock to make a raised bed gardens!? FUCK, gimme a stack of palletes if you want something that's truly eco friendly. Don't recycle, reuse!!! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/aker-print-your-urban-farm--2
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[20:13:41] <XXCoder1> what the fuck
[20:13:57] <Jymmm> fucking hipsters
[20:14:01] <SpeedEvil> hah
[20:14:12] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - cheap plywood is awesome.
[20:14:13] <XXCoder1> glad I'm other kind of h not hipser
[20:14:15] <SpeedEvil> For some things.
[20:14:22] <SpeedEvil> Outdoors is not one of them.
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[20:14:48] <SpeedEvil> It's also damn heavy
[20:14:49] <Jymmm> pallets are free and plentiflul in an urban area anyway
[20:15:07] <Rab> That doesn't look like cheap plywood.
[20:15:10] <Jymmm> They b too dumb/lazy to pick up a tool
[20:15:16] <XXCoder1> any of you hippie? I'm well 1/4 hippie lol
[20:15:20] <Jymmm> Rab: nope, looks $$$ actually
[20:15:31] <Rab> All AKER Kits are made with Baltic Birch plywood. Our materials use exterior-grade adhesives without any added toxins.
[20:15:55] <XXCoder1> cnercete blocks is cheaper than plywood AND cnc machine
[20:16:10] <XXCoder1> 4x8 feet cnc rputer isnt commonly owned
[20:16:28] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder1: Or cast your own concrete even
[20:16:33] <SpeedEvil> which can be remarkably cheap
[20:16:34] <XXCoder1> indeed
[20:16:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fibreglass-heavy-plastering-rendering-reinforcing-mesh-roll-1M-x-50M-165gsm-/380994770209?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item58b50ed521
[20:16:49] <XXCoder1> expecially if you use old concerete broken down as fill
[20:16:57] <SpeedEvil> I am trying to work out the details on how to cast prestressed panels using this stuff
[20:17:08] <SpeedEvil> Which should be cheap, light, and robust
[20:17:13] <XXCoder1> just go to whecking nuilding and ask you probably can get piles concetete free, break em down and fill
[20:19:13] <SpeedEvil> I'm assuming nuilding is building - I can't imagine what whecking could be :)
[20:19:47] <XXCoder1> yes, and second one - well go to place where building or something is being broken down\
[20:19:53] <XXCoder1> wrecking
[20:20:17] <SpeedEvil> I've also been wondering about http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1000KG-40X25KG-Fine-Glass-Grit-Blast-Abrasive-Shot-Sand-Blasting-Metal-Wood-/251511725831?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a8f445f07
[20:20:39] <SpeedEvil> Tip into mould, heat to 900C for 30 minutes, get out fused semi-dense glass.
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[20:22:31] <XXCoder1> sometimes its just best to try
[20:22:34] <XXCoder1> see what happens
[20:22:39] <SpeedEvil> And to bring that onto a linuxcnc topic - sorting random colours of glass grit into homogenous stuff seems like fun
[20:23:09] <SpeedEvil> Imagine glass bricks, but with full colour designs on and through them.
[20:23:21] <SpeedEvil> (translucent, not transparent)
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[20:26:05] <XXCoder1> yeah nice I bet
[20:26:15] <XXCoder1> wonder if it would look awesome when lit lol
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[20:29:49] <XXCoder1> whats last thing you saw someone say?
[20:29:53] <XXCoder1> SpeedEvil:
[20:31:25] <SpeedEvil> <XXCoder1> see what happens
[20:31:28] <SpeedEvil> Stupid network
[20:31:32] <XXCoder1> fun
[20:31:55] <XXCoder1> anyway I said bit more after
[20:32:07] <XXCoder1> yeah nice I bet
[20:32:11] <XXCoder1> wonder if it would look awesome when lit lol
[20:32:19] <XXCoder1> there you go
[20:32:30] <SpeedEvil> That's the idea - backlit or underlit but quite cheap
[20:33:17] <SpeedEvil> A 'small' zone furnace would be ideal, but that's a bit ahrd to do.
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[20:33:27] <XXCoder1> what bout kiln
[20:33:43] <XXCoder1> try find criaglist from some ex-pottery hobbist
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[20:34:27] <SpeedEvil> Yes - a standard kiln is easy to make.
[20:34:43] <SpeedEvil> But not so easy to run 1000kg of glass powder through in a batch
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[20:35:18] <XXCoder1> pallet sized kiln for $300
[20:35:26] <XXCoder1> way overkill lol https://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/art/4957171462.html
[20:36:16] <XXCoder1> $0 https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/art/4949043164.html
[20:36:24] <XXCoder1> yeah kilns is easy to fund
[20:36:26] <XXCoder1> *find
[20:36:36] <SpeedEvil> Building a moderate sized kiln isn't really hard.
[20:36:41] <XXCoder1> yeah
[20:36:49] <XXCoder1> but if has no building skills it isnt too hard
[20:37:04] <SpeedEvil> But a production line, not batch process would be lots more awesome
[20:37:32] <XXCoder1> ahh planning a basically factory eh
[20:37:46] <XXCoder1> I worked with long kiln machines before
[20:38:11] <SpeedEvil> yeah - if I was wanting to be doing this - I would want to be doing enough to do significant construction with them - not just three
[20:38:12] <XXCoder1> low temp ones (say 500c?). there was insanely hotter ones in sane factory
[20:38:30] <XXCoder1> s/sane/same
[20:39:29] <SpeedEvil> yes - the temperature needed to hit is pretty high - ~900Cish, but not impossible
[20:39:46] <XXCoder1> I used to work at capactor chip factory
[20:39:51] <XXCoder1> boring lol
[20:40:28] <SpeedEvil> Sligtly more exotic ceramics.
[20:41:01] <XXCoder1> I used to run $3 million capactor chip cnc machine
[20:41:33] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:41:44] <XXCoder1> it automically dips 100+ chips at once, dry, punch to other side, dip, then punch em out
[20:41:59] <XXCoder1> rainbows happen pretty annoying often
[20:42:28] <XXCoder1> (chip fall out and block dip layer so theres "rainbow" line that affect few chips)
[20:43:26] <XXCoder1> http://abbotsford.craigslist.ca/art/4955506473.html not bad
[20:43:40] <XXCoder1> small and easy to use to melt glass. I wanted to try glass molds or something
[20:44:12] <XXCoder1> SpeedEvil: talking about glass, check this insane engine out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73txXT21aZU
[20:45:08] <XXCoder1> glass. amazing eh lol
[20:45:14] <XXCoder1> all glass
[20:45:26] <XXCoder1> well besides 3 things lol
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[20:48:07] <malcom2073> I like how they say "Rare!"
[20:48:10] <malcom2073> As if that makes any difference at all
[20:48:20] <XXCoder1> yeah
[20:49:03] <malcom2073> Cool, for sure, but the buzzfeedyness of it kinda kills it
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[20:49:26] <XXCoder1> rare can be meaningless
[20:49:31] <malcom2073> It often is
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[20:49:32] <XXCoder1> I can scabble randonly on paper
[20:49:35] <XXCoder1> it is unique
[20:49:39] <XXCoder1> literally one of kind
[20:49:48] <XXCoder1> none has same curves and stuff like it
[20:49:51] <malcom2073> I used to have this in my office: http://blog.rpgmakerweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/unique-is-not-useful.jpg
[20:49:52] <XXCoder1> but worth it? nah lol
[20:50:01] <XXCoder1> lol
[20:50:19] <malcom2073> I have a wooden steam engine model
[20:50:24] <malcom2073> Hook a compressor to it, it runs
[20:50:35] <XXCoder1> cant run on water and fire though lol
[20:50:42] <malcom2073> Nope heh
[20:50:43] <XXCoder1> well it would, for a bit lol
[20:50:47] <malcom2073> Haha
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[20:50:49] <malcom2073> likely yeah
[20:50:49] <XXCoder1> then it becomes fuek
[20:51:27] <XXCoder1> hey a idea. wooden steam engine running under real steam engine. wooden one would run and get burning and power real one.
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[20:51:28] <XXCoder1> :P
[20:51:48] <malcom2073> Haha nice
[20:52:01] <malcom2073> I wanna take this one and try to sell it, buddy of mine gave it to me cause he didn't want to take it with him while he moved
[20:52:07] <malcom2073> looks fancy enough I'll bet I can get some fool to pay for it
[20:53:50] <XXCoder1> steam engine. nice idea to make with cnc machine
[20:53:59] <XXCoder1> flat pattern
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[21:12:14] * SpeedEvil ponders a flat-pack steam engine made from plywood
[21:14:22] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, is there a device that can steer power from two ac sources into one output without backffeding into them?
[21:14:34] <LeelooMinai> A, wait, wrong channel
[21:14:45] <LeelooMinai> Well, unless someone knows of it here:)
[21:21:08] <Cromaglious> LeelooMinai, I've kinda done it by using 2 different 120v outlet to power a 240v outlet
[21:21:32] <Cromaglious> but you're using 2 different legs... out of the panel
[21:22:03] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: not simply
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[21:22:24] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I am thinking more of a situation where one has two ac power sources, with no phase correlation, and combining them for one output somehow, without affecting them in any way.
[21:22:36] <Cromaglious> cuz most AC sources are running off the same panel... unless you're talk 2 different generators
[21:22:41] <LeelooMinai> Two 110V sources to be exact.
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[21:23:23] <Cromaglious> retify into 110vdc, then have an inverter circuit to sent it back out as AC
[21:23:24] <LeelooMinai> One from solar panel inverter and one from mains. I know about grid-tie inverters, but I need to avoid them.
[21:23:30] <SpeedEvil> The right way to do this is to take two first halves of a SMPS - with the power factor correction -> DC bus circuit, and feed both of them into an isolated transformer
[21:23:56] <LeelooMinai> SpeedEvil: Two first halves?
[21:24:23] <SpeedEvil> The AC -> high voltage stabilised DC@380V or so
[21:25:00] <malcom2073> going solar DC -> AC -> DC -> AC seems kinda silly though
[21:25:34] <SpeedEvil> Or yes - if doing that - tehre is no need to do the intermediate AC step
[21:26:21] <SpeedEvil> For this limited case for example, using an efficient AC->DC transformer hooked to batteries and solar cells can work well and then an inverter to run any required DC loads
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[21:27:15] <LeelooMinai> SpeedEvil: Yes, but this has many problems, including battery cost and maintenance.
[21:27:45] <SpeedEvil> yes - exact design is complex
[21:28:45] <LeelooMinai> That's why it made me wonder... shouldn't it be in theory possible to combine two ac sources into one in some simpler/more cost effective way?
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[21:29:27] <LeelooMinai> You have two 110V with different phases, more or less the same frequency.
[21:30:55] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: It's really not.
[21:31:00] <LeelooMinai> I guess to synchronize them, there would be some energy storage required, but only during relatively short cycle - so instead of batteries something else, caps or inductors.
[21:31:47] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: yes - you don't need batteries - the above solution - two AC->HVDC stages, followed by one DC-DC bridge to join the power, followed by a h-bridge to make AC from DC
[21:31:50] <LeelooMinai> Logically such device should be possible to build, but if they have a name... I don't know.
[21:32:15] <SpeedEvil> The only simpler way is a motor-generator with a limited slip differential type thing
[21:32:45] <LeelooMinai> SpeedEvil: Ok, but are such things sold even?
[21:32:53] <SpeedEvil> No
[21:32:57] <LeelooMinai> lol...
[21:33:04] <LeelooMinai> Why?
[21:33:15] <SpeedEvil> Because they are not commonly desired
[21:33:21] <LeelooMinai> Wonderful
[21:33:45] <malcom2073> VFD does basically just that, converts to DC, then back to AC at the desired frequency ( in this case, phase?)
[21:33:59] <SpeedEvil> It's a market failure. Tehre are probably enough people wanting one that it would be viable - but you can't get them together with a maker
[21:34:13] <Cromaglious> hehe.. 2 motors on a common shaft with one motor with changable phase.. IE it rotates around the shaft..
[21:34:37] <Cromaglious> with variable transformers to equalizr the loads on the motors
[21:35:18] <LeelooMinai> Well, my thinking pertains to a situation when I have solar panels and want some device (say computer) to use their energy if it's available, but AC mains otherwise without jumping through crazy expenses and hoops with power company and regulation requirements for anything feeding power back to mains.
[21:35:52] <malcom2073> LeelooMinai: You could do it with some smart switching mains relays and some fancy circuit layout in your house
[21:35:56] <malcom2073> Plus a UPS heh
[21:35:57] <LeelooMinai> If I could combine two source as I described, I could basically forget about them.
[21:36:44] <LeelooMinai> That would probably requires some batteries, no?
[21:36:45] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: One way is a lightly modified UPS.
[21:36:52] <malcom2073> The problem is still that you could potentially cause a feed back to the mains
[21:36:59] <SpeedEvil> Solar plugs into UPS battery.
[21:37:15] <SpeedEvil> Mains->battery as a power supply
[21:37:35] <SpeedEvil> Shunt regulator on the battery bus
[21:37:49] <SpeedEvil> (solar DC)
[21:38:04] <SpeedEvil> Coincidentally I have the bits for this
[21:38:21] <LeelooMinai> SpeedEvil: Mains-> battery?
[21:38:23] <malcom2073> buddy of mine is doing basically that, solar charges the batteries, mains also charges the batteries if solar can't keep up.
[21:38:58] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: you can leave out the batteries, but it puts more demands on the 'charging' PSU
[21:39:14] <LeelooMinai> A, ok, I see, so two battery chargers charging battery then inverter from there?
[21:39:19] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[21:39:43] <LeelooMinai> Two chargers and one battery at the same time... what can go wrong? :)
[21:40:17] <LeelooMinai> Not sure if those things are designed for that...
[21:40:33] <SpeedEvil> It's complex.
[21:40:41] <SpeedEvil> If you understand it it can be made to work safely
[21:41:32] <LeelooMinai> Hmm...
[21:42:46] <SpeedEvil> It's very much the same problem as 'how do I connect two engines to my car"
[21:43:38] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's a pretty simple idea - I am surprised that there are no ready-designed devices for that (ac, not car engine:)
[21:44:34] <LeelooMinai> Someone mentioned stackable wind turbine grid-tie inverter
[21:44:40] <LeelooMinai> On ##electronics
[21:44:52] <LeelooMinai> This makes sense - the output from those is ac
[21:45:25] <SpeedEvil> that will backfeed
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[21:52:55] <furrywolf> most any quality solar inverter will do what you want.
[21:53:13] <Deejay> gn8
[21:53:32] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: I don't see how.
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[21:53:51] <LeelooMinai> Ok, thx
[21:53:57] <LeelooMinai> oops.
[21:54:33] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: I don't want typical solar power scenario.
[21:55:00] <furrywolf> for example, my Outback system can be set up with a small battery bank. when solar is available, it'll charge the batteries and run all loads off the solar. when solar goes away, it'll run loads off the batteries until they reach a user-set state of charge (say, 50%), then start drawing power off the mains. when solar comes back, it'll charge the batteries and run off solar again. If your loads exceed what the solar can supply, then it'll draw from m
[21:56:57] <furrywolf> this isn't that unusual of a setup. it's a way to maximize how much of your solar power you can use, without selling any to the grid.
[21:57:47] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, what is Outback? Some company?
[21:58:17] <furrywolf> many areas when you sell to the grid, you only get paid a small portion of what they charge for the same amount of electricity, so you want to store some of your own for later use, rather than sell to grid.
[21:58:47] <furrywolf> http://www.outbackpower.com/
[21:58:50] <LeelooMinai> Right, I read about batteries though and they seem to be problematic - need some deep cycles, are costly and can do nasty things
[21:59:26] <furrywolf> you'd only need a small battery bank, and could use AGM, which will last a long time if you don't deepcycle them.
[21:59:54] <furrywolf> Most brands require some battery capacity to function, other than explicit grid-tie-only products.
[22:01:10] <furrywolf> my Outback even does shiny things like, when switched to generator input, if you try drawing more power than the generator puts out, it'll run the generator at full load and then provide the extra from the batteries...
[22:03:46] <furrywolf> it'll also auto-start the generator for me, but I'd need a remote-startable generator to do that. :)
[22:04:55] <furrywolf> hrmm, that's funky. one of the diagrams they show on their websites implies it's even smart enough to detect something plugged into the inverter attempting to sell to the inverter, and will charge off that.
[22:06:56] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I guess I should investigate this option. I guess if it can switch to mains when battery is, say, 90%, it would not stress the battery as much.
[22:07:20] <furrywolf> heh, with a warning that it can't regulate the charger in that mode - since reducing the charging power would cause the mains power to immediately swing out of spec.
[22:07:27] <LeelooMinai> Somehow I thought it would need some super-expensive batteries that can do 1000 deep cycles or somethin
[22:07:29] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: Where are you again - I forgot
[22:07:33] <LeelooMinai> Canada
[22:07:38] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[22:07:57] <furrywolf> ... solar panels require sun, you know. not snow nor dark.
[22:07:59] <SpeedEvil> At least here oddly - the 'backfeed to mains' and 'get paid for backfeeding to mains' are seperate
[22:08:17] <SpeedEvil> seperate permissions
[22:08:28] <SpeedEvil> backfeeding to mains is simply a notification
[22:08:40] <LeelooMinai> SpeedEvil: Well, they are, since for getting payed it's even worse - you need to buy expensive power meter, etc.
[22:08:57] <SpeedEvil> If you want paid - you ahve to do it very differently
[22:09:01] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: you could configure it to never actually use the battery except during a power failure, but then you risk wasting solar power, because if you can't sell it, and you're generating more than you're using...
[22:09:07] <LeelooMinai> Problem for me is that I need CAS-certified devices to feed anything into mains and they are expensive.
[22:09:21] <furrywolf> Outback products are expensive too.
[22:09:29] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I don't want to get payed - my installation is too small.
[22:09:35] <furrywolf> I think retail on my inverter is in the US$1800 range.
[22:09:42] <LeelooMinai> It's only to cover some basaline of my usage.
[22:09:56] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: But it is probably lots of W, no?
[22:10:03] <LeelooMinai> I only need 500watt max or so
[22:10:04] <furrywolf> 3500W continous
[22:10:09] <LeelooMinai> Right...
[22:10:16] <furrywolf> 4000 for 5 minutes or something like that
[22:10:49] <furrywolf> but, as a warning, outback doesn't sell anything cheap. heh.
[22:10:56] <furrywolf> none of the name-brand solar companies do
[22:11:05] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: yes - baseload generation or twice is a really decent plan
[22:11:19] <SpeedEvil> It is the fastest way to pay off (without subsidy)
[22:11:32] <SpeedEvil> Trying to reengineer your loads to be running off solar is annoying
[22:12:19] <SpeedEvil> The very easiest way is to run a subset of loads off DC
[22:12:48] <SpeedEvil> For example do a 28VDC bus (picked for the lowest output voltage of a 250W panel)
[22:12:56] <furrywolf> of course, there's also the "sell to the grid and don't tell anyone" strategy, which is quite widely employed.
[22:13:00] <SpeedEvil> Connect your various lighting and such loads to this bus
[22:13:13] <furrywolf> no. it is NEVER useful, easy, or cheap to switch to DC loads.
[22:13:15] <SpeedEvil> And power it either from a mains PSU through a diode, or the solar panel
[22:13:20] <LeelooMinai> SpeedEvil: But then when solar goes off... :)
[22:13:28] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: the mains PSU takes over
[22:13:42] <furrywolf> the cost of the DC parts will exceed the cost of the inverter and AC parts.
[22:13:48] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: It depends.
[22:13:54] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I had a thought like that - thought about powering PCs with DC
[22:13:56] <SpeedEvil> I don't mean swapping to DC loads, that's silly.
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[22:14:14] <SpeedEvil> But, for example, running existing DC loads off DC-DC converters
[22:14:21] <SpeedEvil> Which cost $2 or so.
[22:14:35] <LeelooMinai> SpeedEvil: But PC is DC load...
[22:14:43] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:14:52] <LeelooMinai> Almost ewverything is:)
[22:15:12] <SpeedEvil> It's lots easier with a smaller PC of course
[22:15:14] <furrywolf> just geta small chinese grid-tie inverter and don't tell the power company. as long as your generation never exceeds your usage, you won't even be selling anyway. :)
[22:15:16] <SpeedEvil> ratehr than a 500W monster
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[22:15:46] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Yes, but then, one day some power-person will notice the solar panels and casualy ask how I use them:)
[22:16:07] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/300W-Solar-Grid-Tie-Power-Inverter-Converter-10-5v-28v-DC-90-140V-AC-/160891957271
[22:16:32] <LeelooMinai> Yes, those were my initial happy plan... until I learned they are illegal:/
[22:16:45] <LeelooMinai> Kind of fubared my strategy.
[22:17:21] <LeelooMinai> They still have anti-islanding and are fine, but, no CAS certification.
[22:19:06] <furrywolf> what I didn't know, that I do know now, is that if you plug one of those into the output of my Outback inverter, it'll stuff the power from it into the batteries. so I could mount solar panels some distance away and plug them into the AC wiring, instead of needing to run heavy DC cabling.
[22:20:02] <LeelooMinai> That's probably illegal too:p
[22:20:15] <furrywolf> I'm off-grid.
[22:20:22] <LeelooMinai> O, completely?
[22:20:24] <furrywolf> yes
[22:20:41] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, I guess you can do anything there.
[22:21:18] <furrywolf> anything except run the electric dryer in cloudy weather. that's still illegal. :P
[22:21:23] <SpeedEvil> Except run the d...
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[22:22:41] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, "Two (or more) Morningstar charge controllers can be paralleled to charge the same battery bank."
[22:22:48] <LeelooMinai> Maybe it's not that exotic
[22:23:02] <furrywolf> multiple charge controllers is common. why would you think it wouldn't work?
[22:23:26] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[22:23:53] <LeelooMinai> Something about them messing each other up:)
[22:24:37] <LeelooMinai> But I would need one controller to take power from the solar and one from mains
[22:24:48] <furrywolf> you use the voltage setpoints if you want to prioritize one charging over the other... like you could set your mains one to 28.6V and the solar one to 28.8V, so if it's floating off the solar, it won't charge anything from the grid, etc.
[22:25:04] <furrywolf> most good inverters are inverter/charger combos, like the outbacks.
[22:25:31] <LeelooMinai> Let me see how crazy prices they have
[22:25:48] <furrywolf> my inverter charges 85A @ 28V
[22:26:15] <LeelooMinai> They seem to have battery combined with them (?)
[22:26:33] <furrywolf> which?
[22:26:40] <LeelooMinai> http://www.outbackpower.com/outback-products/inverters-chargers
[22:26:47] <LeelooMinai> Just opened a page
[22:26:50] <furrywolf> an inverter with a built-in battery is called a UPS. :)
[22:27:12] <LeelooMinai> Yesm well, they call them inverter/chargers somehow
[22:27:26] <furrywolf> they sell kits with a battery box included, yes
[22:28:31] <furrywolf> http://www.outbackpower.com/index.php/outback-products/inverters-chargers/item/vented-gvfx3524?category_id=444 is the one I have. I also have their MX60 charge controller, Hub-4 communications hub, Flexnet-DC dc monitor, and Mate display/rs232 interface.
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[22:29:32] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Are you some kind of, I don't know, society-separatist? :)
[22:30:33] <furrywolf> lol
[22:31:05] <furrywolf> FX port 1, inv 1.0A, chg 0.0A, buy 0.0A, sell 0.0A, load 1.0A, in 0.0V, out 122.0V, batt 30.2V, mode 2, ac 0, error 0x00, warning 0x00, misc 0x08.
[22:31:05] <furrywolf> MX port 2, chg 19.0A, pv 0.0A, batt 30.4V, pv 37.0V, daily 0.0kWh 9999.0Ah, aux 0, error 0x00, charger 5.
[22:31:05] <furrywolf> FN port 3, A 10.9A (enabled), B 0.0A (disabled), C 0.0A (disabled), batt 30.0V, btemp 99.0C, SOC 100.0%, flags 0x00, extra id 3, data 0.00.
[22:31:12] <furrywolf> current status of my outback system. :)
[22:33:05] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: You see, when I look at most of those setups, like that of yours, they write that it's intended as backup in case of mains go off
[22:33:44] * furrywolf finds "preppers" annoying
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[22:35:25] <LeelooMinai> Those people that prepare for end of the world?
[22:36:16] <furrywolf> yes
[22:36:28] <LeelooMinai> I guess it's kind of weird to spend so much energy on something that has low chance of happening, yes
[22:36:57] <LeelooMinai> But maybe it's more like a hobby:)
[22:37:32] <LeelooMinai> So when they meet they can have a beer and talk who has more food stored in their bunker.
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[22:37:43] <furrywolf> lol
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[23:07:40] <SpeedEvil> It does depend.
[23:08:10] <SpeedEvil> 'prepping' - done properly - can not only cope with TEOTWAWKI - but not being able to easily afford food for 6 months
[23:08:50] <SpeedEvil> I try to keep ~6mo of food.
[23:09:01] <_methods> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_transition_theory
[23:09:09] <SpeedEvil> Storable stuff that I'm not going to stop eating - purchased on offer
[23:09:15] <_methods> the odds of shtf are not as slim as you think
[23:11:15] <zeeshan> interesting conversation above
[23:11:44] <zeeshan> https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/electrical-lighting/32478d1281535745-wiring-step-up-transformer-split-20phase-20small.gif
[23:11:47] <zeeshan> queestion though
[23:11:58] <zeeshan> if you were to measure l1 to n and l2 to n
[23:12:04] <zeeshan> they would be 180 degrees out of phase?
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[23:13:23] <PCW> yes
[23:14:00] <zeeshan> why can't you use a cap to store the charge from one phase along with a diode and convert to 1.414*(240vac) then?
[23:14:06] <zeeshan> to get like 340vdc
[23:14:22] <zeeshan> i thought this is what 110vac to 240vac 3 phase vfds did
[23:15:15] <zeeshan> maybe im thinking of it wrong :p
[23:15:55] <PCW> reasonable size VFDs all run from 240V and up
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[23:17:22] <zeeshan> teco makes a 1hp one
[23:17:26] <zeeshan> that runs off 115v
[23:17:32] <zeeshan> http://www.factorymation.com/FM50-101-C.html
[23:18:50] <PCW> probably a 1/2 bridge front end
[23:19:10] <PCW> (like a 120/240 PC power supply)
[23:20:03] <zeeshan> doesnt a half bridge give you this:
[23:20:11] <zeeshan> data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAS4AAACnCAMAAACYVkHVAAAA4VBMVEX///8AAAD/AACurq6jo6P/8vL/k5OGhob/jo78/Pz/9/f/+/v/b284ODj/YWH/3d3/ior/rKzi4uL/0tL/x8f/dnb/PDz/7u7Z2dn/WFj/Kirp6en/srL/u7tSUlKSkpL/29v/paX/e3v/5ub/T0//hIT/FBT/wMD/09P/np7/R0f/JCTNzc19fX0tLS3/enojIyNra2v/Xl7/Pz9ISEhfX1//MjK8vLyjtLT/GxujqqrBAABRAADxQUHOe3vMs7N2AACobGwYGBi/oqKjTk6jAADvqqouAADdAABZAABDAADeIrkwAAAHHElEQVR4nO2daV
[23:20:12] <zeeshan> wow
[23:20:16] <zeeshan> http://macao.communications.museum/images/exhibits/2_16_0_6.png
[23:20:43] <PCW> Since you are going to need big capacitors anyway, might as well arrange them as a 1 /2 bridge voltage doubler
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[23:22:52] <zeeshan> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Switcheable_rectifier.svg/300px-Switcheable_rectifier.svg.png
[23:22:55] <zeeshan> like that?
[23:23:10] <zeeshan> basically what you ewre saying is in a comp psu
[23:23:25] <PCW> well except its not switchable
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[23:23:45] <zeeshan> yes
[23:23:47] <PCW> (well maybe it is)
[23:24:03] <zeeshan> ive never seen a 110v 3 phase motor
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[23:37:08] <zeeshan> i wish they made a 240vac vfd that could drive 480v 3 ph motors
[23:37:12] <zeeshan> that would be sweet!
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