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[00:00:08] <XXCoder> ffurrywol: I know. its just dont weight enough to matter
[00:00:14] ffurrywol is now known as furrywolf
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[00:00:46] <andypugh> Oh my “NO! It was a little metal (brass?) piece that is round around the diameter and about as wide as the tube with this pinhole (yeah a pinhole in the middle)
[00:00:47] <andypugh> Now is this a dislodged valve part (EGR valve broken?) or is it supposed to be in the tube obstructing the flow? Great design!!! This pinhole won't flow nothin so I chucked it. “
[00:01:29] <XXCoder> manfold hole for egr is tiny too
[00:01:48] <XXCoder> ford contours is HUGE compared to it
[00:02:00] <andypugh> For reference, that was a vacuum damper that he threw away. Designed to slow down the movement of the EGR valve so it doesn’t slam against the end-stops and break itself. You want to keep that in the new tube.
[00:02:10] <furrywolf> lol
[00:02:20] <XXCoder> ow heh
[00:02:26] <furrywolf> or, more likely, it was to smooth the PWMed vacuum control solenoid.
[00:02:29] <XXCoder> good tip, thanks
[00:03:16] <furrywolf> zeeshan: some 3ph transformers are on a conjoined core that you'd need a saw to separate, others are three in one box...
[00:03:22] <andypugh> furrywolf: PWM frequency is likely to be much higher than the mechanical frequency of even the solenoid valve.
[00:03:33] <zeeshan> furrywolf: thats teh thing
[00:03:39] <zeeshan> the what do you call em..
[00:03:49] <zeeshan> laminations are made in a way that the copper goes around one
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[00:04:33] <furrywolf> andypugh: no, because then it won't regulate the vacuum pressure. the valve itself isn't proportional - you don't want to try to hold it half open to vacuum, half open to atmosphere.
[00:04:35] <andypugh> (I get to _choose_ the PWm frequency for these valves)
[00:05:02] <furrywolf> instead you cycle it around 0.5-1hz, and smooth the vacuum
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[00:06:31] <furrywolf> I mean, you could design a voltage-to-vacuum-regulator, and I know such products exist... I've just never seen one in a car. :)
[00:11:19] <andypugh> I am regretting not bringing the test car and laptop home this evening. I could have told you _exactly_ what the EGR valve PWM frequency is. I know what the PWM frequencies are for the actuators that it is my responsibility to choose the PWM frequency for. But EGR is calibrated by the guy who sits next to me.
[00:13:19] <skunkworks> it is fun when someone argues with an expert in the field...
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[00:16:37] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - alas there are way too many people asserting knowledge they don't really have.
[00:16:45] <SpeedEvil> and too few experts
[00:17:17] <XXCoder> I dunno if I will ever be expert on anything ehh
[00:17:20] <XXCoder> *heh
[00:17:23] <andypugh> I am not claiming to be an expert. But Ford do pay me to do it :-)
[00:17:38] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[00:18:23] <SpeedEvil> I have designed my own valve PWM timing. But it was for a sprinkler.
[00:18:51] <XXCoder> almost tempted to dummy out my van egr lol
[00:18:55] <XXCoder> so much hassle.
[00:19:46] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: any idea what micro Ford uses in the ECU's for those?
[00:20:05] <CaptHindsight> something custom for Ford?
[00:20:12] <andypugh> It’s an asymmetric tricore.
[00:21:27] <andypugh> http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/microcontrollers/32-bit-tricore!22-microcontrollers/tricore!22-architecture-and-core/channel.html?channel=ff80808112ab681d0112ab6b73d40837
[00:21:40] <CaptHindsight> yeah was just looking at those
[00:21:50] <CaptHindsight> VW and Mecedes also uses them
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[00:22:29] <furrywolf> andypugh: a vacuum-controlled egr valve, or a direct solenoid one? the direct solenoid ones are high-frequency pwm, but the ones I've seen with vacuum have been low-frequency pwm. (note "what I've seen" tends to include 2000 and earlier)
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[00:22:53] <furrywolf> just hosed down the tree... got maybe 50% of the sooty mold off. need to buy a bigger sprayer.
[00:23:04] <andypugh> A bit like the Machinekit approach, one powerful CPU to handle the interface, then a BBB to handle the slow realtime and a PRU for the fast realtime.
[00:23:07] <skunkworks> anyone happen to know how these work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIG-CAT40-LCP40A-LC-TOUCH-PROBE-XLNT-/121574031203?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4e607f63
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[00:24:06] <skunkworks> no external plug - there is just a wire from the probe plate to the fixed plate. (3 balls 3 pads)
[00:24:13] <andypugh> skunickoe
[00:24:19] <andypugh> Oops
[00:24:40] <andypugh> skunkworks: The probe otself or the interface
[00:24:42] <andypugh> ?
[00:25:06] <skunkworks> I don't know if LC actally mean inductor/capacitor - were the contact causes a change in the system that is detected..
[00:25:26] <skunkworks> andypugh: both - I have emailed the company - have not heard back
[00:26:13] <andypugh> Seems expensive. Do you actually have one?
[00:26:44] <skunkworks> 2 - he got them for $40 ish
[00:26:53] <furrywolf> bbl, errands
[00:27:06] <skunkworks> I think we can probably make them work with some re-wireing
[00:27:11] <skunkworks> http://www.big-daishowa.com/product_page/product_21_s-k-fa.php
[00:27:24] <skunkworks> if you look at the LC touch sensor on that page - you see a ring.
[00:29:37] <andypugh> furrywolf: I normally see EVRVs running at 1kHz or so. (No, I don’t actually know what the acronym stands for). Depending on the car they can control the turbo vanes, intake throttle, bypass valves, swirl valves, EGR valve. And any or all of those can be diretly electrically operated too, in what seems a totally random choice.
[00:30:29] <furrywolf> I'd guess electric vacuum regulator valve, or similar.
[00:30:51] <andypugh> skunkworks: Yes, that looks to be inductively coupled. Perhaps the resonant frequancy of an internal circuit changes when the contacts open?
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[00:31:38] <furrywolf> I've seen them in industrial stuff, never in cars... but, as I said, most of the cars I see are 2000 and earlier.
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[00:31:59] <andypugh> Was the car even invented in 2000 :-)
[00:32:16] <skunkworks> there isn't anything that I can see in the head other than a wire going from the stationary plate to the plate with the probe attached. So if there is something there it is under a bead of glue. The thing is pretty small - like 1" in diamter or a little more
[00:33:05] <andypugh> It could just be a coil and capacitor embedded in the body, and when the coil is shorted it has a different resonance.
[00:33:39] <furrywolf> bbl
[00:33:58] <skunkworks> unrea
[00:34:01] <skunkworks> unreal
[00:35:43] <skunkworks> I can't find the sensing ring anywere.. I do see
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Daishowa-Seiki-Big-LCS-701-LC-Touch-Sensor-/360608170706
[00:35:57] <skunkworks> which seems like it is for that probe style
[00:36:54] <archivist> people who strip the machines probably dont realise they left a bit on the machine
[00:37:26] <skunkworks> mabye
[00:37:28] <skunkworks> maybe
[00:38:56] <archivist> it is also possible the couple some power into the probe for an internal oscillator
[00:39:58] <andypugh> I bought a Renishaw probe cheap from eBay. That had an inductive coupler. I didn’t have the reciever so I just wired it with wires to the controller:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill?noredirect=1#5901893706748072338
[00:40:46] <andypugh> Though that is a home-made “magsafe” connector to save embrassment if the spindle starts:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill?noredirect=1#5901893707657187586
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[00:44:59] <andypugh> Night all
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[00:45:27] <skunkworks> andypugh: we did the same thing with the one on the k&t - just wired the contactor out.
http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/probe/DSCF1507%5b1%5d.jpg
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[02:20:07] <XXCoder> furrywolf: oh yeah! I got parts for stop/walk :) glad I got those, because van lights is badly wired! In least it was still worth wait.
[02:20:21] <XXCoder> Too bad I'll be too busy for few weeks to do anything for it.
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[02:21:22] <XXCoder> enjoy great weekend everyone.
[02:21:26] XXCoder is now known as XXCoder_wkend
[02:23:18] <Cromaglious> I have a doggie in my lap, the mutt gets separation anxiety
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[02:40:15] <furrywolf> meh! raining again.
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[02:43:38] * furrywolf pets Cromaglious's doggie
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[02:54:36] <georgenz> Im wanting to use a pot for max feed override. I have a 7i77 and noted that the input chanels 0-3 are able to be set as analog if I select the 7i77 to run on mode 1. In the pncconfig under I/O connector 3 I can see that its currently set to mode 0. But options are greyed for changing. Any ideas?
[02:55:51] <furrywolf> using pot for max feed override seems standard... every pothead I know is always talking about getting the munchies...
[02:56:40] <pcw_home> just edit the halfile and change the sserial mode for device 0 to 1
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[02:56:54] <roycroft> the key is to snack out before lighting up
[03:01:11] <pcw_home> for example change the sserial port setting in the config string to
[03:01:12] <pcw_home> sserial_port_0=100xxx
[03:03:44] <georgenz> Is there an easy way to change it within pncconfig? Once the mode is changed, how do you assign max feed to it etc?
[03:04:57] * furrywolf needs a mesa board. :(
[03:05:08] <georgenz> Im trying to do everythong in pncconfig since if you need to go back into it, all yr other settings will be deleted
[03:05:42] <Cromaglious> sserial=100xxx 200xxx 300xxx aaaaaaaaaaare all possible settings
[03:06:12] * Cromaglious needs servo motors
[03:07:17] <Cromaglious> I was looking at software and planet cnc for USB is 290 for the software and $200 for the board
[03:08:03] <pcw_home> Once you have a pncconf config that's close I would just edit the hal file by hand
[03:11:14] <pcw_home> I dont think pncconf can make the hal bolierplate for analog (potentiometer)
[03:11:15] <pcw_home> feed rate override anyway so you will have to edit the hal file anyway
[03:14:04] <pcw_home> Once you have some fancy customizations you have to leave pncconf behind
[03:14:50] <georgenz> Ok... thx. I need to rewire my system am currently using all those pins
[03:15:28] <georgenz> Will get back to you on where to go once I have done that
[03:28:35] <furrywolf> my mill project is on hold for a while
[03:35:08] <georgenz> Also wondering if anyone is familiar with the xhc-hb04 wireless jog. I finally managed to get mine running, but it's so rough. The machine vibrates the concrete floor when I wind the handle. I have played with the coefs from 0.0001 right upto 1. All this seems to do is slow the response time down. It still makes the whole macjine shudder. The only way I have been able to mitigate it is slow my servo acceleration down which is less than ideal
[03:36:39] <pcw_home> are you passing the jog steps through a low pas filter?
[03:36:48] <pcw_home> low pass
[03:39:09] <georgenz> The coefs under low pass settings I have played with... from 0.0001 to 1 but it didnt help
[03:39:25] <georgenz> Are there any other settings I need to be aware of?
[03:39:52] <georgenz> There is a setting called scales. But Im not sure what it is
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[03:40:34] <pcw_home> it should get very gentle acceleration when the filter coefficient is small
[03:41:23] <georgenz> The acceleration is very slow and lags the wheel by a lot when coef is turned down. But it still jumps from point to point
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[03:41:46] <furrywolf> meh. one of my speakers is rattling. might need to repair it.
[03:42:21] <furrywolf> its mate needed the surround reglued a couple years ago...
[03:44:29] <pcw_home> if it jumps from point to point, something is wrong. maybe the scale is too small
[03:44:57] <georgenz> Tried scale... that just changes distance travelled per pulse... interestingly enough. When set to 0.1 it doesnt just divide by ten, just doesnt do anything till you have run ten notches
[03:45:23] <georgenz> Scale is correct, i can run it from 0.001mm to 1mm per click
[03:46:32] <georgenz> Is anyone running a big machine happly with one of these? It may be just because smaller machines dont have the grunt to shake the floor so no one notices?
[03:47:26] <pcw_home> I would look carefully at the hal file, maybe there's a pncconf mistake
[03:47:59] <furrywolf> waiting ten steps sounds like a bug
[03:48:23] <furrywolf> is there a setting to set what a step is, other than scale?
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[03:48:55] <georgenz> Thats only if scale is set to 0.1 if set to 1 it steps per notch
[03:49:20] <furrywolf> if set to 1, what sets how much it moves per step? anything other than scale?
[03:49:34] <pcw_home> sounds like its not wired right in the hal file
[03:50:02] <georgenz> There is coef... but that just seems to slow rate of change, however my machine hits hard with each notch
[03:50:12] <georgenz> How so... what do i look for?
[03:50:57] <georgenz> It's working fine... like 10 steps is 10 steps, i can change acceleration in hal file and that sorts it
[03:51:06] <furrywolf> I want to build a jog box with three knobs on it, so you can pretend it's a little mini milling machine.
[03:51:48] <pcw_home> if you look at the ilowpass component you can see that the default scale is 1024 so I dont think scale does what you think it does
[03:51:58] <furrywolf> does it have a feed rate setting for the jog?
[03:52:21] <pcw_home> man ilowpass
[03:53:58] <pcw_home> the inputs and outputs of ilowpass are integers so scale _must_ be large
[03:54:24] <georgenz> Ok... will look
[03:55:10] <furrywolf> integers would explain why a 0.1 scale counts ten steps instead of moves 1/10th as much, but that's ugly. :)
[03:55:16] <georgenz> Cannot find ilowpass in hal
[03:55:23] <pcw_home> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/mpg.html
[03:56:31] <pcw_home> ilowpass is behaving as it should (doing the best it can with integer I/O)
[03:57:10] * furrywolf wonders if there's an flowpass...
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[03:57:43] <pcw_home> thats just lowpass
[03:58:45] <georgenz> Ok... i dont have a jog.hal file in my configs?
[03:59:25] <pcw_home> well you have jog code in your hal file, its probably just not right
[04:00:29] <pcw_home> maybe the pncconf jog boilerplate has a bug or two
[04:00:31] <georgenz> Likely...
[04:00:55] <georgenz> Likely my fault tho i meant
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[04:02:14] <pcw_home> so the trick is the ilowpass scale must be set large so the filter will run a bit more smoothly than a pig on stilts
[04:03:10] <georgenz> Excellent... glad to hear there is a solution
[04:03:36] <pcw_home> the other part is that the jog increments must be divided by the ilowpass scale
[04:05:20] <pcw_home> if you scroll down in the example theres an example ilowpass setup
[04:07:10] <georgenz> Yeah... i saw that... but i dont have that file. Do I have to create the file and reference it?
[04:14:29] <pcw_home> I would look at it and your own hal file and see if the numbers make sense
[04:15:37] <pcw_home> ( you dont need a separate file the jog code is just part of your main hal file )
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[04:18:19] <pcw_home> note this:
[04:18:21] <pcw_home> setp mux4.0.in0 0.0001 (since scale is 1000 this is 0.1" jog interval)
[04:18:22] <pcw_home> setp mux4.0.in1 0.00001 (since scale is 1000 this is 0.01" jog interval)
[04:18:24] <pcw_home> setp mux4.0.in2 0.000001 (since scale is 1000 this is 0.001" jog interval)
[04:20:05] <pcw_home> (scale above is ilowpass scale)
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[04:23:35] <furrywolf> has youtube done something that breaks the "back" button?
[04:24:24] <furrywolf> every time I hit back, it just stays on the same page, still playing the video. checking the history shows the page gets duplicated every time I hit back...
[04:24:58] <pcw_home> I wouldn't doubt it, they own your eyeballs
[04:26:13] <georgenz> There isnt a mux term in my hal files
[04:27:11] <pcw_home> well not much of a jog wheel if you cant change the increment
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[04:27:57] <georgenz> The increments can be changed... but jst did a search for mux and nothing
[04:27:58] <furrywolf> bah, and I find the video I was looking for... and youtube insists you need an account to watch it. it's a music video?
[04:28:02] <georgenz> Will look again
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[04:29:58] <pcw_home> if you post your hal file I can take a look but tomorrow, getting sleeepppyy....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[04:30:16] <furrywolf> I need to head to bed too, but the internet is pissing me off. (specifically, corporations)
[04:30:38] <pcw_home> you wont fix it tonight....
[04:30:47] <pcw_home> bbl sleep
[04:31:16] <georgenz> Talk later in the week. Thanks for yr help
[04:36:22] <furrywolf> only copies of the video I can find are flash.
[04:40:02] <furrywolf> bah, and after all that searching, it sucks horrible.
[04:40:02] <furrywolf> horribly
[04:40:34] <furrywolf> "13,700,469 30.6M/s in 0.4s" I sure wish my home connection downloaded like that.
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[04:52:17] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
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[05:28:53] <zeeshan> morning
[05:28:58] <zeeshan> :-)
[05:31:10] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/WNp11Hk.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qXGDcmB.jpg
[05:31:17] <zeeshan> friends came over to help hold those pieces in place while i tacked
[05:31:23] <zeeshan> it seems to be coming together :)
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[05:36:16] <toastydeath> hell yeah
[05:36:21] <toastydeath> baller work
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[05:47:11] <tiwake> the old haas machine I have does not support the goto statement, or subprograms (m97)
[05:48:10] <tiwake> I havent tried conditional statements or while loops, but I suspect those won't work either
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[06:03:48] <toastydeath> tiwake, if you can find the paramater manual for haas you can go into the parameter setup and see what options the control supports
[06:09:28] <tiwake> toastydeath: if such a thing exists, I would love to see it
[06:09:58] <toastydeath> you're gonna have to troll the internet or contact haas
[06:10:01] <tiwake> however, mechanical service manuals from haas do not go back far enough
[06:10:14] <toastydeath> this should not be with the service manual
[06:10:20] <toastydeath> this is usually in the operator's manual or similar
[06:10:23] <tiwake> right
[06:10:25] <toastydeath> sometimes the programmer's manual
[06:10:31] <tiwake> that is even worse
[06:10:33] <toastydeath> if haas doesn't have a copy you may be fucked
[06:10:42] <toastydeath> jump on practicalmachinist and ask in their cnc subforum
[06:10:53] <toastydeath> someone else may be able to look it up in their manual and tell you where the read the parameters from
[06:11:01] <tiwake> its a 1990 VF1, mechanical manuals go back to 1993, and operators manuals go back to 2000
[06:12:56] <tiwake> haas got in business in 1987 or 1988 (don't remember exactly)
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[06:20:26] <toastydeath> trust me
[06:20:34] <toastydeath> practicalmachinist
[06:21:05] <toastydeath> i know a lot of people complain about getting shit on a lot in that forum (for what I think are mostly justified reasons), but that sort of question is right up their alleyt
[06:21:07] <toastydeath> *alley
[06:30:06] <Jymmm> cradek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvtfD_rJ2hE
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[07:25:26] <Deejay> moin
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[07:36:32] <MrSunshine> hmm some strong ... hard .. flexible material that is castable? that is not a metal ? =)
[07:36:36] <MrSunshine> anyone ?
[07:36:55] <MrSunshine> uniforce clamps out of wood works great ... except they like to split :P
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[07:39:50] <Jymmm> MrSunshine fiberlgass coated wood
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[07:40:05] <Jymmm> or carbon fiber
[07:40:09] <archivist> that continuous bending is going to break any clamps of that design
[07:40:41] <Jymmm> glass impregnant nylon is mold injectable
[07:40:43] <MrSunshine> archivist: yeah .. but clamps in wood .. while fast to make tend to split after the first clamping ... :P
[07:40:47] <archivist> must stay inside the elastic limit
[07:41:01] <MrSunshine> due to the fiber nature of the wood
[07:41:08] <zeeshan> continuous bending?
[07:41:11] <MrSunshine> it holds up all the way up the flex legs but splits in the midle =)
[07:41:12] <zeeshan> what clamp
[07:41:29] <MrSunshine> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ynobrrevL._SX342_.jpg
[07:41:32] <MrSunshine> homemeade =)
[07:41:59] <Jymmm> That's a design flaw, not the material
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[07:42:26] <MrSunshine> hmm just got an idea .. but that removes the huge advantage of those clamps .. high density
[07:42:47] <Jymmm> HDPE will deform under that pressure.
[07:43:01] <zeeshan> what presuure
[07:43:05] <zeeshan> i saw no numbers
[07:43:10] <zeeshan> :-)
[07:43:20] <MrSunshine> zeeshan: M6 variant from mitee kicks out 1500lbs of force
[07:43:32] <Jymmm> zeeshan: That might as well be a bearing puller
[07:45:05] <archivist> that force is with very little bend up against hard material
[07:45:08] <MrSunshine> hmm might be doable in a moving jaw design ... as its the principle of parallel planes that makes the force =)
[07:45:50] <MrSunshine> its the flexback that will be gonski :/
[07:47:15] <MrSunshine> tried out the clamps in a jig yesterday ... and man they do realy clamp hard ... bent the jig ... and clamped the blocks rock solid in place =)
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[07:49:59] <MrSunshine> but with the clamps keeping on splitting its a no go anyways ... moving jaw design of some kind would be the best way but density goes down fast
[07:52:38] <archivist> I would be making these items serially not in parallel
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[07:54:17] <archivist> load next can be during drilling, withdraw, feed, drill, rinse repeat
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[07:55:01] <archivist> a clever sprung clamping tunnel and a feed device
[07:56:25] <archivist> removes most of the move to next item time
[08:02:24] <zeeshan> la lala
[08:03:19] <zeeshan> im thinking what the easiest way to make the 16 gauge sheets a bit more rigid is
[08:03:28] <zeeshan> i shoulda passed them through my bead roller to start off with
[08:04:05] <archivist> hindsight is too late :)
[08:04:10] <zeeshan> yes
[08:04:11] <zeeshan> it sux
[08:04:16] <zeeshan> dsid you see the picture?
[08:04:39] <archivist> which pic of what
[08:04:42] <zeeshan> lathe enclosure
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[08:05:25] <archivist> yes
[08:06:27] <archivist> you are going to be annoyed when you cant put large diameters on
[08:06:39] <zeeshan> ??
[08:07:05] <zeeshan> i made it so i have a 15" working diameter
[08:07:14] <zeeshan> considering this is a 12x36 lathe
[08:07:17] <zeeshan> :)
[08:07:22] <archivist> bent forward early to miss fuse box it looks like
http://i.imgur.com/WNp11Hk.jpg
[08:07:36] <zeeshan> yea :)
[08:07:43] <zeeshan> the picture might be a bit misleading
[08:08:05] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/4rSsldQ.png
[08:08:07] <zeeshan> gives a better sense
[08:08:43] <zeeshan> help me come up with a way to make the bottom pan more rigid!
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[08:09:03] <archivist> stops you craning a large lump on too
[08:09:12] <zeeshan> large lump?!
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[08:09:55] <archivist> glue a strip of angle to one side to make more rigid
[08:10:15] <zeeshan> hmm
[08:10:28] <zeeshan> i was thinking flatbar in the vertical position
[08:10:32] <archivist> glue to stop rattle
[08:10:33] <zeeshan> for more moment of inertia
[08:10:39] <zeeshan> i can weld it
[08:10:54] <zeeshan> 1" flatbar
[08:10:56] <zeeshan> 1/8"
[08:11:08] <zeeshan> along the length direction
[08:11:08] <archivist> angle has both plains glue can dampen
[08:11:14] <archivist> planes
[08:11:17] <zeeshan> thats true
[08:11:21] <zeeshan> good point
[08:11:36] <zeeshan> i have dimple dies too
[08:11:42] <zeeshan> but the problem is they make holes :)
[08:11:47] <zeeshan> which isn't a good idea!
[08:11:59] <zeeshan> and if i passed the bottom pan through the bead roller
[08:12:03] <zeeshan> it'd just be a location for chips to collect
[08:12:15] <archivist> underneath
[08:12:25] <zeeshan> yes i understand angles underneath
[08:12:43] <zeeshan> i might do square tube
[08:12:45] <zeeshan> instead of angle
[08:12:52] <zeeshan> so i dont hurt myself with one angle sticking out
[08:12:53] <archivist> now get me some canada balsam
[08:13:08] <zeeshan> i refuse to kill trees!
[08:13:10] <zeeshan> im a tree hugger
[08:13:30] <zeeshan> oh wait its a resin
[08:13:43] <zeeshan> i was thinking of basalm wood
[08:14:09] <archivist> you read books!
[08:14:56] * zeeshan is reading about it
[08:15:02] <zeeshan> amorphous structure
[08:15:03] <archivist> heh only suppliers on fleabay are over there
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canada-Balsam-Fir-gum-4-oz-CAS-8007-47-4-EINECS-232-362-2-/261379426500
[08:15:04] <zeeshan> interesting
[08:15:24] <archivist> used to glue optics together
[08:15:34] <zeeshan> Due to its high optical quality and the similarity of its refractive index to that of crown glass (n = 1.55),
[08:15:35] <zeeshan> thats something
[08:16:15] <zeeshan> haha
[08:16:31] <zeeshan> its got a better refraction index compared to the expensive ass optical quartz glass i had to order for school
[08:16:36] <archivist> I have a dead microscope where the prisms have fallen apart
[08:17:03] <zeeshan> trying to repair?
[08:17:13] <archivist> not got it all apart yet, corroded solid
[08:17:23] <zeeshan> gotta love that
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[08:17:29] <zeeshan> its like when people leave mic's closed
[08:17:34] <zeeshan> and theyre welded solid pretty much
[08:17:55] <archivist> yes, for a giggle, if I can take to bits without too many breakages
[08:17:57] <zeeshan> ive been trying to repair this one digital oldschool mitutoyo mic guy at school gave me
[08:18:01] <zeeshan> its seized so bad
[08:18:24] <archivist> one screw snapped so far
[08:18:26] <zeeshan> i think i will have to make a softjaw to grab on the thimble
[08:18:38] <zeeshan> which when turned will likely strip the fine thread
[08:18:44] <zeeshan> thats not bad
[08:18:48] <zeeshan> what size screw?
[08:19:16] <archivist> 3mm
[08:19:25] <zeeshan> okay thats bad :)
[08:21:10] <archivist> the mount was fun, rusted black steel in alloy
[08:21:23] <zeeshan> got a pic of the scope?
[08:21:31] <archivist> no
[08:21:42] <zeeshan> im suprised :)
[08:21:58] <zeeshan> i guess it needs to be restored to archivist standard to be archived
[08:22:34] <archivist> I was clearing out a shed, re found it, started attacking it
[08:23:12] <archivist> I got it with the Bausch and Lomb microscopes as an extra
[08:30:44] <archivist> wee, three more screws undone
[08:31:52] <zeeshan> :)
[08:31:59] <zeeshan> when will you send me a find?!
[08:32:05] <zeeshan> i dont own a single british tool
[08:32:08] <zeeshan> other than moore and wright
[08:32:17] <zeeshan> actually i will give you a task!
[08:32:50] <archivist> I dont rate moore and wright that much, tend to go rusty
[08:33:01] <zeeshan> i want a hilger and watts precision level
[08:33:08] <zeeshan> anything in the 8 to 12" range
[08:33:11] <zeeshan> could be a box level too
[08:33:19] <zeeshan> if you come across one for cheap! please let me know
[08:33:59] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HILGER-WATTS-8-Square-block-level-/221676045554?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item339cec04f2
[08:34:02] <zeeshan> would love to own something like that
[08:34:05] <zeeshan> without the crazy price :)
[08:34:06] <archivist> I have them in my watch list and cooke troughton
[08:34:34] <zeeshan> you know frigging universities throw away a lot of old stuff.
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[08:34:49] <zeeshan> for the last couple of months, ive always been on the look out for stuff thats being thrown away
[08:34:50] <archivist> hehe silly price, I will tell you when I next see a sensible price one
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[08:36:29] <zeeshan> an example of something that was getting thrown away
[08:36:33] <zeeshan> was a bunch of type k thermocouples
[08:36:37] <zeeshan> omron
[08:36:41] * zeeshan cringed
[08:36:47] <archivist> grabem
[08:37:44] <zeeshan> when you compare the starrett's top end precision level
[08:37:46] <zeeshan> 199z or whatever it is
[08:38:00] <zeeshan> it looks like a toy compared to the higler and watts levels :)
[08:38:37] <zeeshan> in your opinion, whats a better quality level
[08:38:43] <zeeshan> cooke and simms
[08:38:47] <zeeshan> or higler and watts?
[08:39:39] <archivist> erm... I got both :)
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[08:39:44] <zeeshan> hehe
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[08:40:07] <archivist> depends on the job and the bubble fitted
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[08:41:48] <zeeshan> ok sleep time :P
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[09:31:54] <archivist> zeeshan, updated with resolution of the bubbles
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=machinists+levels+pd
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[14:06:51] <MrSunshine> finaly a viable design ... not as compact as the originals but not to bad ... overall 50x40x36mm .. good enough for my current application atleast =)
[14:08:07] <MrSunshine> http://postimg.org/gallery/2bqozvlti/05d75a3c/ the wooden uniforce clamp =)
[14:13:40] <MrSunshine> now .. mass production ... and might widen them a bit to make more way for the screws that hold them together :P
[14:14:13] <SpeedEvil> What's it do?
[14:15:07] <SpeedEvil> A bar pokes out of the side when you screw it up?
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[14:16:17] <SpeedEvil> Wedges not good enough?
[14:21:09] <MrSunshine> SpeedEvil: i want the speed and the holding force of them =) a powered screw machine and blam .. in out in seconds .. and they press flat on the side of the workpiece insted of just pressing in some odd angle somewhere =)
[14:21:40] <SpeedEvil> you use identical wedges, and they go flat
[14:21:48] <SpeedEvil> but glad it works
[14:21:53] <SpeedEvil> what force can you get?
[14:22:02] <SpeedEvil> I need to make up some stretchers
[14:22:24] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fibreglass-heavy-plastering-rendering-reinforcing-mesh-roll-1M-x-50M-165gsm-/380994770209?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item58b50ed521
[14:22:52] <SpeedEvil> I want to take ~1.2m*1.2m squares of that, and put a couple of tons on each axis, and put it in the middle of some thin concrete
[14:25:42] <MrSunshine> SpeedEvil: dont know realy ... it doesnt stop until the wooden wedge colapses ... the pieces are in there rock solid atleast =)
[14:26:28] <MrSunshine> SpeedEvil: the original clamps from mitee clamps up to 1500lbs .. do nt have any good way to test the clamping force of these tho .. as long as they hold i find it all good =)
[14:26:46] <MrSunshine> SpeedEvil: problem with wedges is with vibrations they can come lose ... i dont think these will as they have a bolt holding it all down =)
[14:27:04] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:27:30] <SpeedEvil> The annoying part about the above is getting the stress nice and even without ripping
[14:29:06] <MrSunshine> SpeedEvil: humm ?
[14:29:41] <MrSunshine> want to put concrete under tionsion or waht ?
[14:29:42] <MrSunshine> what
[14:29:59] <SpeedEvil> Yes. I'm going to try to use the above to make prestressed concrete skins
[14:30:20] <SpeedEvil> It's specced for 3 tons/m
[14:30:50] <MrSunshine> hehe =)
[14:35:25] <MrSunshine> would be cool to have a loadcell to try this clamp out with =) just for the heck of it =)
[14:35:46] <SpeedEvil> bathroom scales are handy and cheap
[14:36:22] <MrSunshine> SpeedEvil: only goes to like 150kg
[14:36:32] <SpeedEvil> Sure - you need a lever
[14:36:46] <MrSunshine> and mine is made out of glass :P
[14:37:03] <MrSunshine> dont want to put some kind of mechanical stress on it .. nervous enough to stand ont he bloody thing
[14:37:08] <MrSunshine> blody ?
[14:37:14] <SpeedEvil> Bloody
[14:37:26] <SpeedEvil> glass is really surprisingly strong if you don't do shock loads
[14:38:33] <MrSunshine> yeap
[14:38:51] <MrSunshine> even with shock loads in some cases .. had a friend who worked construction .. worked with glass
[14:39:30] <MrSunshine> they threw away a sheet and it wouldnt go into the container .. so they told a worker to smash it, said and done he got a sledge hammer and went at hit ... hitting himself to freakin tears and the glass wouldnt break
[14:39:56] <MrSunshine> so they went down ... smacked the edge with a wrench and it broke into a billion pieces :P
[14:42:05] <SpeedEvil> yeah - toughened glass is wierd.
[14:42:15] <SpeedEvil> Prince ruperts drops
[14:42:43] <MrSunshine> mm
[14:42:47] <MrSunshine> those are cool =)
[14:42:52] <MrSunshine> glass under tension =)
[14:46:58] <MrSunshine> problem with testing with lever is that i need something quite rigid and the movement will be like 0 ... as the clamp moves a maximum of like 3mm :P
[14:47:11] <MrSunshine> put that on a 1:10 ratio lever and well .. wont move much in the other end :P
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[14:56:39] <JT-Shop> sharpening the 3/4-10 tap with the dremil did work a little but not enough
[14:57:25] <Tom_itx> heh
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[15:09:11] <SpeedEvil> use more lube, and chuck it up in the impact driver
[15:16:08] <_methods> that's what she said
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[16:14:23] <zeeshan> :)
[16:20:24] <archivist> zeeshan, did you see my link with added resolution?
[16:20:42] <zeeshan> now i am looking
[16:20:53] <zeeshan> wow you have a lot :)
[16:21:10] <archivist> one of the box level has the best bubble
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[16:29:45] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-American-engineers-Level-made-by-The-L-S-Starrett-Co-Athol-Vass-USA-/151626082768
[16:30:04] <zeeshan> i have a similar one
[16:30:07] <zeeshan> f starrett!
[16:30:10] <zeeshan> need made in uk!!!
[16:30:12] <zeeshan> :)
[16:30:43] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engineers-level-/271819115340
[16:31:05] <archivist> Vickers bought cooke troughton
[16:32:03] <zeeshan> doesnt look like he/she ships outside of uk
[16:33:00] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/WE4AAOSw34FVFCVv/$_57.JPG
[16:33:04] <archivist> ship here then ship over
[16:33:12] <zeeshan> i wonder if it has been dropped
[16:33:24] <zeeshan> see the dent on the bottom left?
[16:33:40] <archivist> looks like it had had a knock
[16:34:12] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/kd4AAOSwpDdVFCVV/$_57.JPG
[16:34:20] <zeeshan> that bolted down cover
[16:34:25] <zeeshan> is that some sort of plexiglass?
[16:34:27] <zeeshan> non precise?
[16:34:34] <zeeshan> protecting the vial
[16:35:02] * zeeshan will try to bid on it
[16:35:12] <zeeshan> 8 days though!
[16:35:12] * Tom_itx will outbid
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[16:37:10] <archivist> you see the same plastic cover on the older one of mine
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_04_15_Levels/IMG_0586.JPG
[16:37:12] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/markham-york-region/lincoln-mig-weld-machine/1054099440
[16:37:17] <zeeshan> this guy will take $550
[16:37:21] <zeeshan> comes with bottle, cart
[16:37:31] <zeeshan> i really need a mig for some jobs
[16:37:41] <zeeshan> tig is really for sitting on the table :)
[16:38:18] <zeeshan> yours is in pristine condition :)
[16:38:50] <archivist> is it hell, it had rusty feet when I got it
[16:39:06] <zeeshan> rust is okay
[16:39:10] <zeeshan> massive dents not so good :P
[16:39:19] <archivist> that bent bubble cover, look at the bubble, seems to be dead
[16:39:45] <zeeshan> i see a bubble
[16:39:46] <zeeshan> its faint
[16:40:50] <archivist> mine is more distinct
[16:41:11] <zeeshan> might be lighting of pic?
[16:41:25] <archivist> could be
[16:41:49] <archivist> but main bubble is the only really important one
[16:41:54] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/UI1Mrxf.png
[16:41:57] <zeeshan> i tried to highlight it
[16:42:04] <zeeshan> side one is nice to have
[16:42:19] <zeeshan> but then you can always have 2 levels :)
[16:43:00] <archivist> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/DkMAAOSw-7RVFCV8/$_57.JPG one might ask why you cannot see the bubble in this image
[16:43:12] <zeeshan> lol
[16:43:20] <zeeshan> i see it!
[16:43:23] <zeeshan> slightly
[16:43:35] <zeeshan> could just be my eyes too
[16:43:39] <archivist> mirage
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[16:45:31] <archivist> on the left
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/kd4AAOSwpDdVFCVV/$_57.JPG
[16:46:05] <zeeshan> he's not on level ground.
[16:46:06] <zeeshan> :p
[16:46:16] <zeeshan> how dare he take a pic like that
[16:46:44] <archivist> I had to buy a new bubble for my clinometer, loads of money
[16:47:17] <zeeshan> isn't it the most expensive part of a level?
[16:48:23] <archivist> on a normal level yes, dunno about the clinometer though
[16:48:45] <archivist> that has a worm and wheel in it
[16:49:15] <SpeedEvil> You can get replacement worms from a bottle of tequila
[16:50:58] <archivist> not dared to plaster it in yet
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_04_15_Levels/IMG_0589.JPG
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[16:51:45] <zeeshan> fancy!
[16:53:00] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hilger-Watts-Clinometer-TB9008-1-with-case-Free-UK-P-P-/191314342700
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[16:56:09] <archivist> still have no clue what
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=clinometer+dual is designed for
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[18:09:21] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/hYoVOk4.jpg
[18:09:32] <zeeshan> ever see this? :p
[18:14:36] <_abc_> Can one unsee it afterwards? /me is afraid to look
[18:14:52] <_abc_> Can you people id a parallel interface board if I post pics of it?
[18:15:03] <_abc_> I have trouble locating the docs for a board we use.
[18:15:31] <zeeshan> post
[18:15:41] <_abc_> It's just a connector jungle not even optocouplers on it. It connects to a high density parallel cable and to servo drives.
[18:15:47] <_abc_> I'll do it tomorrow.
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[18:49:37] <JT-Shop> pcw_home, is there an I/O card for the 5i25?
[18:50:12] <pcw_home> what kind of I/O?
[18:50:26] <JT-Shop> just 24v inputs and outputs
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[18:51:35] <JT-Shop> say you have a 7i77 on one port and you need more 24v I/O
[18:52:24] <pcw_home> in that case easiest thing is to add a 7I84
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[18:52:54] <pcw_home> (adds 16 more 24V outputs and 32 more 24V inputs)
[18:53:23] <JT-Shop> thanks
[18:53:55] <pcw_home> 7I84 connects to 7I77 (or 76) expansion port
[18:54:26] <JT-Shop> cool
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[19:11:26] <skunkworks> mesa hardware is awesome
[19:15:39] * pcw_home blushes
[19:17:27] <pcw_home> I wish our production was awesome, we are still behind
[19:19:08] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Maybe if you feed them more than just stale old bread and green meat?
[19:20:54] <pcw_home> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZrgxHvNNUc
[19:21:48] <Jymmm> exactly!
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[19:23:42] <skunkworks> :)
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[20:13:41] <CaptHindsight> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/xm42-the-handheld-flamethrower
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[21:06:04] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:04:57] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i've got my limits and part of my pendant on the 7I84
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