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[00:06:07] <furrywolf> green roofs are a good idea, until you actually have one.
[00:06:58] <LeelooMinai> Or you are a Hobbit:)
[00:08:08] <furrywolf> you have to design for a stupidly high loading, they leak and are a nightmare to fix, the soil can erode, poor selection of plants results in dieouts or needing to fertilize, mow, or otherwise constantly maintain, the whole "absorbs rainwater" thing is bunk - during a heavy rain most of it just runs off, while other times you have to water, creating its own environmental issues, etc, etc.
[00:08:48] <LeelooMinai> I had a feeling it's like that
[00:09:43] <LeelooMinai> At least solar panels do not require a lot of maintenance
[00:09:54] <furrywolf> the plants that don't require maintenance and watering are the same ones all your neighbors consider weeds
[00:10:26] <furrywolf> I'm waiting for a HOA to start sending people around with a ruler to measure how long you've let your roof grow, and fine you. :)
[00:11:42] <LeelooMinai> Or people jailed for using fake grass on roofs
[00:12:47] <furrywolf> they attract animals which most people don't want (birds are great, until they cover your car and everything else in shit, racoons, etc), many plants worsen allergies, fertilizer runoff creates pollution issues in stormwater, they cost many times more to build (stronger framing, waterproofing, etc), they attract ants and termites,...
[00:13:12] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I wonder there are docs for all those built-in components
[00:13:43] <LeelooMinai> They just list them and what...
[00:13:58] <Tom_itx> there are descriptions
[00:14:12] <LeelooMinai> For few only as I see
[00:18:39] <LeelooMinai> In the manual I see something, say, like this: "maj3 Compute the majority of 3 inputs." ... so name and descrption, but no pin names or examples
[00:20:07] <LeelooMinai> Found something by man maj3 - weird
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[00:37:01] <LeelooMinai> I see they have some PyVCP (whatever that is) example there with some speedometer for a spindle. Is that normal way of doing this kind of display?
[00:38:43] <andypugh> LeelooMinai: Every HAL component has a man page
[00:39:36] <LeelooMinai> Right, found it. Kind of strange since those componenets are specific for linuxcnc, but man scale worked
[00:39:37] <andypugh> And all those pages appear as links towards the bottom of;
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/]
[00:40:39] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, did not see that. First link I got for "lunuxcnc components" was this:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/components.html
[00:42:08] <andypugh> That page you linked needs to either auto-generate or disappear, it gives an innaccurate description of what there is.
[00:42:32] <LeelooMinai> Right, it confused me a bit - if I saw that one you linked it would be much better
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[00:47:51] <Cromaglious__> now to figure out how to make a slightly regualated power supply out of a yoocnc spindle side of the power supply
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[00:48:45] <Cromaglious__> byeya PCW
[00:54:20] <tjtr33> LeelooMinai, rely on the man pages, they are from the code for the system you have.
[00:54:22] <tjtr33> else remember about old linuxcnc docs, they are like the HitchHikers guide "though it contains much that is apocryphal, or at least wildly inaccurate"
[00:55:47] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I knew it won't just work...
http://i.imgur.com/uZIwP5X.png
[00:56:16] <LeelooMinai> I used this:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/pyvcp_examples.html#gs2-rpm-meter
[00:56:35] <LeelooMinai> To hopefully display that spindle GUI
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[00:59:27] <LeelooMinai> So... where is the schema file for that pyvcp xml format?
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[00:59:52] <LeelooMinai> Cannot find it somehow.
[01:00:56] -!- Camaban has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[01:00:59] <LeelooMinai> Since the error message does not tell me the line in the xml.
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[01:01:42] <toastydeath> if anyone's been through engineering or physics, I have a basic fluids question that I don't think I'm setting an integral up right on
[01:01:46] <toastydeath> full workup:
http://imgur.com/a/RRyRJ
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[01:09:33] <malcom2073> Man, it facinates me that there is math that will determine that, but I'll be damned if I'll ever understand it
[01:11:15] <zeeshan> toastydeath:
[01:11:36] <zeeshan> are you treating v and h as constants?
[01:12:17] <toastydeath> h is a constant, v is a function of of the position
[01:12:51] <toastydeath> i deal with V in the middle of page 2
[01:13:58] <zeeshan> i did this so long ago :/
[01:14:02] <zeeshan> forgot it
[01:14:06] <zeeshan> i just know its couette flow
[01:14:19] <toastydeath> like, i'm 99% sure that this is not me cocking up my physics/fluids
[01:14:21] <zeeshan> and the velocity profile is linear :P
[01:14:24] <toastydeath> but rather me not setting up the integral
[01:14:40] <toastydeath> I'm almost _positive_ that M = F * d is the incorrect way to start this
[01:15:17] <toastydeath> i.e. that it should be int[ F * d dA ]
[01:15:34] <toastydeath> and then something ELSE has to happen with that "A" in the force equation
[01:16:19] <andypugh> it’s been an awfuly long time, but I would be considering rings of width dr
[01:16:46] <tjtr33> LeelooMinai, the vbox has no 'width', look at pyvcp_widgets.py in class pyvcp_vbox(Frame) it does inherit Frame but unless a feature is specific in the new class, it often 'just dont work' (TM)
[01:17:20] <LeelooMinai> Wonderful... I am just removing those widths to see what happens
[01:17:26] <andypugh> dM = Frdf where df = mu(r.dr)v(r)
[01:17:30] <tjtr33> thats one of the reasons for the new renderes like GL and Qt for linuxcnc panels
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[01:17:59] <toastydeath> andypugh, unfortunately that doesn't solve my problem, but I think it indicates that my assumption - that I need to have a dA term
[01:18:00] <toastydeath> is correct
[01:18:02] <LeelooMinai> New like planned development, or there are new ones?
[01:18:03] <tjtr33> the underlying 'schema' is really TclTk ;)
[01:18:12] <toastydeath> but I have no goddamn idea what to do with the area term in the force equation
[01:18:48] <andypugh> set it up in terms of dr. Then A = pi.r.dr
[01:19:17] <toastydeath> let me reframe
[01:19:34] <toastydeath> I have a function dependent on area, integrating BY area
[01:19:42] <tjtr33> LeelooMinai, already existing toolkits like JT's
http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/gladevcp/index.html
[01:19:49] <toastydeath> whether I do A = pi r dr or double integration is equivalent
[01:19:56] <toastydeath> because the fundamental problem is still there
[01:20:07] <toastydeath> wtf do I do with an area term when the area is infinitesmal
[01:20:12] <andypugh> It’s almost identical to the problem of calculating the moment of inertia (or, for that matter, the area of a dis)
[01:20:49] <andypugh> I am almost certain that it is a single integral in r from 0 to R
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[01:21:25] <toastydeath> andypugh, it doesn't matter if it's a single or double integral (because in this case they're equivalent
[01:21:27] <andypugh> Consider a stack of rotating rings
[01:21:27] <zeeshan> if you treat it like a ring
[01:21:30] <zeeshan> its a single integral
[01:21:32] <toastydeath> guys
[01:21:34] <zeeshan> if you treat it like an element like hes doing it
[01:21:39] <zeeshan> its a double integral
[01:21:53] <zeeshan> cause its a function r, theta
[01:22:01] <toastydeath> either way I do it, i either have a ring of infinitesmal volume, or an element of infintesmal volume
[01:22:12] <zeeshan> but with ring its axisymmetric so its just a function of r
[01:22:15] <toastydeath> and I am still stuck with a function dependent on area
[01:22:19] <zeeshan> (which is much eaasier to intrrepret!)
[01:22:31] <toastydeath> maybe I'm overthinking it, and the area is just plain macroscopic area
[01:22:40] <toastydeath> i.e. pi r^2
[01:22:58] <andypugh> And why is that a problem? The whole point of calculus is to love your infinitessimals
[01:23:05] <zeeshan> lol
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[01:24:13] <toastydeath> because "dr dr dtheta" with a double integral is problematic
[01:24:15] <andypugh> Formulate the equation in torque for a tiny thin ring of radius r and width dr. Then integrate from 0 to R
[01:24:22] <toastydeath> sigh
[01:24:30] <toastydeath> what i am doing is _exactly_ equivalent to that
[01:24:58] <toastydeath> because a double integral when you proceed around theta first, collapses to the single integral you describe
[01:25:02] <andypugh> OK, so then you need to be much better at maths than me, and solve the equation :-)
[01:25:04] <toastydeath> (which is what i did)
[01:25:28] <toastydeath> ty for looking at it, though - I've been banging my head for three days so all eyes are greatly appriciated
[01:25:48] <toastydeath> i am going to head to the bar with attractive friends and drown my math sorrows, bbl and ty all
[01:25:52] <tjtr33> LeelooMinai, sorry the Qt stuff is machinekit
http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/gettingstartedqml.html
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[01:26:37] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I think I will not go there - just make this work.
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[01:27:51] <LeelooMinai> I wonder how machinists deal with all this. I am a programmer and eventually will succeed, but... :)
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[01:29:39] <andypugh> I am neither a machinist nor a programmer. I am not even an engineer. What am I doing here?
[01:30:07] <LeelooMinai> No idea:p
[01:30:19] <Tom_itx> you play with metal
[01:30:56] <andypugh> Ah, yes, I almost have a qualification in metallurgy
[01:31:02] <andypugh> Good point
[01:31:53] <LeelooMinai> I a, just trying to imagine some old-school machinist saying "Hey ho, I will now load linuxcnc and control this bugger" :)
[01:33:09] <andypugh> I think you under-estimate them.
[01:34:14] <LeelooMinai> For their sake, I hope so:)
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[01:37:37] <andypugh> If you read the old model-engineering magazines the people are just the same, only the tools have changed
[01:40:45] <Bushman> ave
[01:40:48] <tjtr33> model engineering magazine since 1898 ( slightly older than Dr. Who :)
[01:42:25] <tjtr33> used to travel 4 hrs to goto Evanston IL to get issues in 60's & 70's, then got subscription ( and a job to pay for it )
[01:47:09] <andypugh> toastydeath: I get this:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TlS3KSrOuMUxXDixD3JYZyRcCUDYouMZNo_-aopP-bY?feat=directlink (rigor = low)
[01:48:54] <andypugh> Which seems suspiciously too much simpler than yours.
[01:49:35] <zeeshan> where is mr ohm coming from
[01:49:46] <andypugh> angular velocity
[01:49:47] <zeeshan> we usually use small omega
[01:49:55] <zeeshan> to capital :-)
[01:50:14] <andypugh> I couldn’t remember little omega. It’s been too long
[01:50:30] <zeeshan> and btw, envelopes make great paper for math work! :P
[01:52:20] <zeeshan> andypugh: symmetry makes great simplification
[01:52:23] <andypugh> It feels right, linear in separation and speed, but cubic in radius
[01:52:51] <zeeshan> im pretty sure your solution is correct
[01:53:02] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I have lame spindle panel visible... now what? Do I control spindle using G-codes?
[01:53:11] <zeeshan> you're using a line element
[01:53:23] <zeeshan> and evaculating it over the entire radius
[01:53:56] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: you dont need the panel at all
[01:53:59] <zeeshan> to run your spindle
[01:54:11] <andypugh> LeelooMinai: What do you _want_ your spindle panel to do?
[01:54:19] <zeeshan> when you associate the right hal pins, the +/- in axis makes your spindle work
[01:54:22] <zeeshan> aka m03 etc
[01:55:01] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, I wired the panel - it's supposed to dpisplay RPM, I know. I just want to control the spindle nwo
[01:55:17] <andypugh> zeeshan: I don’t think I am even doing that. I am simply treating it as a 1D problem and ignoring the geometry of my individual “rings”
[01:55:20] <LeelooMinai> O, +/- I see
[01:55:42] <LeelooMinai> Wait, those are zomm buttons:)
[01:55:42] <andypugh> LeelooMinai: MDI M3 S1000000000
[01:56:01] <zeeshan> you can see the rpm in hal
[01:56:05] <zeeshan> without the panel :p
[01:56:25] <LeelooMinai> andypugh: Is that spindle on command?
[01:57:28] <LeelooMinai> Whhat is that weird S10000000 ?
[01:58:14] <jdh> he has a really fast spindle?
[01:58:37] <andypugh> M3 = spindle on, S1000000000 = 1 meeelion RPM
[01:58:44] <LeelooMinai> Right...
[01:59:01] <LeelooMinai> Can I tell linuxcnc that everything is homed without actually homing?
[01:59:12] <andypugh> No, and yes
[01:59:27] <jdh> you can tell it you don't have to home
[01:59:33] <andypugh> You can’t do it now. But you can configure shuch that you could have done :-)
[01:59:58] <tjtr33> and you dont have to home to use the spindle ( none of the above )
[02:00:18] <LeelooMinai> Well, that M03 command ended with complaint that I have to home first...
[02:00:49] <tjtr33> ? wow didnt know that was wired , good to know
[02:00:51] <LeelooMinai> "can't issue MDI commands when not homed"
[02:00:57] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:TRAJ-section
[02:01:10] <tjtr33> oh right, but hal can be used instead of mdi
[02:01:26] <tjtr33> you're just testing right?
[02:01:28] <andypugh> OK, you can’t MDI then. But you can click the spindle buttons in Axis (if you are using Axis)
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[02:02:08] <andypugh> LeelooMinai: That link_ NO_FORCE_HOMING
[02:02:37] <andypugh> But homing is better, much better. You should at least have an ambition to have home switches.
[02:03:27] <LeelooMinai> I have all that, just want to test spindle only
[02:04:03] <LeelooMinai> O, it works
[02:04:08] <LeelooMinai> Magic
[02:04:10] <tjtr33> weeeeeee
[02:04:29] <LeelooMinai> Well, the lame panel doesn't but the command seems to
[02:04:33] <andypugh> Does it run the other way too?
[02:04:44] <jdh> spindle via modbus only or digital IO?
[02:04:50] <andypugh> Lame panels are lame and un-necessary.
[02:04:52] <tjtr33> you can even run the pyvcp panel without axis, without linuxcnc
[02:05:14] <LeelooMinai> I did m03 s1000 and then s8000 and it changed speed
[02:05:29] <LeelooMinai> So I guess now I will try reverse direction
[02:05:42] <andypugh> M4 S1000 should run the other way, but might not do
[02:05:44] <LeelooMinai> Do I have to issure stop first?
[02:05:51] <andypugh> No, no need.
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[02:06:10] <andypugh> But m5 to stop if you want to
[02:06:31] <LeelooMinai> Seems ok - slowed down then changed dir
[02:06:45] <LeelooMinai> Now, the real test:)
[02:06:49] <LeelooMinai> s24000
[02:06:54] <andypugh> That’s good. Quite often reversing takes work.
[02:07:24] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I wonder if it's supposed to sound like that
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[02:07:48] <tjtr33> m5 stop dubious sound. then got a tacho? or display on vfd?
[02:08:32] <LeelooMinai> Yes, vfd has display
[02:10:07] <LeelooMinai> Do those spindles sound like coffee grinders? :)
[02:10:34] <tjtr33> empty or crunching beans?
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[02:11:04] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's not a brutal sound - but it's not completely smiith
[02:11:06] <LeelooMinai> smooth
[02:11:26] <tjtr33> where's pastesound.prg ?
[02:11:41] <LeelooMinai> At 24000 it sounds like a sand was inside or something like that:)
[02:12:11] <LeelooMinai> I guess those are bearings, but not sure what is normal or not
[02:12:14] <andypugh> Under no load that _might_ be normal
[02:12:48] <LeelooMinai> Should I try to open it and check if the bearings are greased?
[02:14:19] <andypugh> No, you probably shouldn’t. Unless you know the bearing preload settings, how much grease there should be, and what grade of grease.
[02:14:34] <jdh> does your display show rpm? Mine doesn't seem to
[02:14:56] <LeelooMinai> No, but I did not dobule check everything yet
[02:14:56] <zeeshan> got an encoder?
[02:14:57] <tjtr33> maybe run with load a bit before disassembly (friction) just long enuf to get the sound or not get the sound
[02:16:02] <LeelooMinai> Maybe it needs to run for a bit like engines
[02:17:29] <LeelooMinai> Is it easy to attach encoder to a spindle like that? I don't see where it could go as on the back there's only a cooling fan
[02:18:31] <andypugh> The fan has blades. What are they made of? They sound like an encoder to me.
[02:18:55] <LeelooMinai> What? :p
[02:19:10] <Tom_itx> inductive pickup if they're ferrous
[02:19:11] <tjtr33> its easy to mount encoder like a tool ( and its just for testing/calibration )
[02:19:27] <LeelooMinai> You think the fan rotates at the spindle speed?
[02:19:44] <Tom_itx> it rotates at the motor speed i'd bet
[02:19:49] <tjtr33> mount encoder shaft in the collet/chuck
[02:20:14] <LeelooMinai> I meant for permanent setup
[02:20:26] <tjtr33> nm
[02:21:00] <tjtr33> well once you know the calibration is right, then its a waste of an encoder
[02:21:31] <LeelooMinai> I don't think the spindle is following the frequency/current/etc. exactly
[02:22:06] <tjtr33> andy wrote special comps the linearize the speed given enough samples (iirc)
[02:22:50] <LeelooMinai> I just like the direct approach of an encoder I guess - not much wrong can go there
[02:22:57] <andypugh> Yes, “lincurve” can compensate that, or closed-loop PID control.
[02:23:48] <tjtr33> maybe use a tachometer rpm = volts , cheaper than encoder, more classic too
[02:24:12] <tjtr33> typical like 7V/krpm
[02:24:36] <LeelooMinai> Right, I will look into all options later.
[02:24:51] <LeelooMinai> For today I will only try this needle display to work
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[02:25:35] <Jymmm> You can now buy 3D printer from home depot...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Dremel-Idea-Builder-3D-Printer-3D20-01/205448581
[02:26:12] <LeelooMinai> I am kind of tired of all those 3d printers tbh:)
[02:27:10] <Jymmm> We all are
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[02:27:57] <Jymmm> They even had samples there. Like I've always said... glorified glue gun.
[02:28:50] <LeelooMinai> People will buy them, then be trolled on materials, like the printer manufactures do with cartridges, and they will gather dust:)
[02:29:29] <Jymmm> NAh, ppl will buy from overseas, it's nothign special, just plastic rod
[02:29:44] <malcom2073> I dunno, I find mine extremely useful
[02:29:45] <CaptHindsight> what about emergencies?
[02:29:53] <LeelooMinai> Well, the manufacturers can make them special:)
[02:30:11] <LeelooMinai> Soecial cartridges etc. - for the consumer market
[02:30:28] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ones that can wait 6-12 hours?
[02:30:54] <CaptHindsight> I was planning on going out tonight but I forgot to grow out a mustache the past two weeks. No problem
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:253394 and 3 hours later I'm ready to hit the town
[02:31:10] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Nah, look below it, just spools of plastic
[02:31:17] <zeeshan> lol CaptHindsight hahahaha
[02:31:23] <LeelooMinai> Right, 3d-print a carriege for someone who just broke the neck, so he/she can be transported to a hospital:)
[02:31:41] <tjtr33> haha and i was listening to Poirot
[02:32:12] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: crazy glue and a pair of cisors, done in 60 seconds.
[02:32:12] <malcom2073> Calling people who use 3d printers that, is the same as me calling people who use cnc machines gun nuts. Just because you can use a device to make something, doesn't mean everyone will.
[02:33:26] <malcom2073> Seems that gross misunderstanding of a technology isn't just for the masses :P
[02:33:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:203101 you can't buy these
[02:33:53] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Of ot
[02:34:02] <LeelooMinai> Or you can print a Yoda head - like 10k other people:)
[02:35:20] <Jymmm> s a 480K one, then no problem, it's no longer a glue gun. I'm not looking at the "technology" I'm looking at the final result. The sample I have, which I would suspect would be "the best" aint so pretty inless you are a kid and making a goft for mothers day or something along those lines.
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[02:35:29] <Jymmm> $80K
[02:35:40] <malcom2073> Jymmm: No, you're looking at the media
[02:36:01] <LeelooMinai> I call them 3D Blobbers in my mind for some reason - no idea why:)
[02:36:06] <Jymmm> malcom2073: I dont give a poo. it's crap, period.
[02:36:59] <Jymmm> I'm barly flexing it and it's delaminating.
[02:37:04] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Then you're doing it wrong.
[02:37:18] <LeelooMinai> flex gentler
[02:37:38] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Its a glue gun, if you dont like that name, oh well.
[02:38:08] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: I am, that's the problem.
[02:38:11] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/YN8NZJYboHg?t=1m54s a useful 3d printer
[02:39:01] <malcom2073> I dont' care for name calling, but if that's your thing so be it
[02:39:44] <malcom2073> It just amuses me the amount and source of negativity
[02:40:19] <LeelooMinai> It's to counterbalance amount of naivness? :)
[02:40:40] <malcom2073> Anything that hits mainstream media has a decent amount of both carried along with it heh
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[02:41:34] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: it's just that >90% of the parts printed by FDM are just useless
[02:42:27] <LeelooMinai> Plastic jewelery for small girls works though:)
[02:42:39] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: It's unfortunate that has been your experience
[02:42:45] <malcom2073> I try for a significantly smaller failure rate :)
[02:42:46] <CaptHindsight> toys stores should have them
[02:43:17] <LeelooMinai> Barbie 3D Printer Deluxe
[02:43:19] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: I develop 3d printers for a living, just not FDM
[02:43:29] <malcom2073> Why does it anger you guys that people are printing trinkets in their living rooms?
[02:44:14] <LeelooMinai> $1k to print trinkets - I don't know:)
[02:44:39] <malcom2073> LeelooMinai: People spend significantly more than that, to do significantly less :P
[02:44:51] <CaptHindsight> it's also the waste of time and resources on hype
[02:44:58] <Jymmm> malcom2073: That's NOT helping your glue gun case btw.
[02:45:04] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, doesn't mean I should admire it:)
[02:45:17] <malcom2073> Jymmm: I don't have a case
[02:45:42] <Jymmm> malcom2073: You seem pretty admant on defending the anti-gluegun campaign
[02:45:51] <malcom2073> Jymmm: I have nothing to prove. My 3d printers save me an unbelievable amount of time and money, that's all the justification I need.
[02:45:55] <malcom2073> I'm trying to understand all the anger
[02:46:05] <CaptHindsight> I don't think it angers anyone. It's just an easy target for amusement
[02:46:14] <Jymmm> There is no anger, just no love either.
[02:46:27] <malcom2073> So it's trolling?
[02:46:40] <LeelooMinai> In my case it's not anger at all, ore like "meh, this again":)
[02:46:42] <Jymmm> It's calling what it is.
[02:47:09] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Calling it a glue gun with the intention of it being an insult isn't just calling it what it is, don't treat me that stupid heh
[02:47:12] <CaptHindsight> same for people that go to Katy Perry concerts
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[02:47:29] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's pretty close to a glue gun...
[02:48:00] <CaptHindsight> filament fetishists
[02:48:15] <Jymmm> Glue gun = thermal polymer dispenser. $1K 3d printer, glorified thermal polymer dispenser.
[02:48:23] <malcom2073> This has devolved into exactly where I expected it to, so nevermind heh
[02:49:11] <CaptHindsight> when you hear and read the hype about fdm printers
[02:49:30] <Jymmm> Glue gun = manual thermal polymer dispenser. $1K 3d printer = automated thermal polymer dispenser.
[02:49:35] * LeelooMinai imagines malcom2073 petting his 3d printer and saying "Don't worry, you are not really a glue gun"
[02:49:41] <CaptHindsight> 3d printing actually has lots of great applications, just not fdm
[02:50:54] <tjtr33> malcom2073, you're absolutely right about this channel being very neagtive. not often helpful or praising. and its true that toolmakers wont look kindly at one of those extruders. both are true.
[02:51:22] <LeelooMinai> One should make one of those Hitler-meme videos about getting a 3D printer imho
[02:52:20] <malcom2073> tjtr33: It's not even the not being helpful, it's the attitude of distain for anyone who does 3d printing that shocks me. I guess I shouldn't be THAT shocked, this is the internet heh
[02:52:25] <malcom2073> Shouldn't expect miracles of deceny
[02:52:29] <malcom2073> decency*
[02:53:13] <LeelooMinai> I don't see how not mocking questionable use of technology is decent:)
[02:53:41] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Quit bitchin because some think the results of a $1k FDM is shit, else prove me wrong is something you've created that is exceptional in quality
[02:53:48] <CaptHindsight> spend a day in #reprap and then come back to this discussion, I dare you
[02:53:57] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: I spent quite a few days in there.
[02:54:04] <malcom2073> I agree, they're not helping the case
[02:54:35] <CaptHindsight> it's anti-science, facts, intellectual etc
[02:55:24] <CaptHindsight> it's more poking fun at the absurdity of FDM changing the world
[02:55:30] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Seriously, show pics of things you've made than have came out exceptional in quality that you could sell to retail (as example)
[02:55:43] <LeelooMinai> I never was there - is that channel like @arduino?
[02:55:46] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Why would I do that? That's not what I use it for
[02:55:50] <CaptHindsight> they hijacked the term 3D printing when FDM is just a small subset
[02:55:53] <zeeshan> its a precise glue gun!
[02:56:17] <zeeshan> its like calling LeelooMinai's machine a dremel
[02:56:22] <zeeshan> :p
[02:56:25] * zeeshan hides
[02:56:58] <LeelooMinai> Drenel dremels
[02:57:01] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Your in a channel with ppl that deal in thousands of an inch tolerance, and tryng to finger out why we call them glues gluns? Thats like someone with an airsoft going into S&W "why do you call it a toy?"
[02:57:03] <tjtr33> the low level desire to build is good. i admire that part. but the items produced by reprap et al are not pleasing to machinists. and machinists are not always politically correct
[02:57:28] <zeeshan> i like the parts reprap makes
[02:57:33] <CaptHindsight> #reprap is more a den of snake oil, #arduino is more hobby electronics
[02:57:36] <zeeshan> you can make useful covers out of em!
[02:58:22] <Jymmm> malcom2073: And note I say $1K 3d printers, not 3d printing itself.
[02:58:32] <LeelooMinai> Too bad most arduino people do not know much about eletronics at all:)
[02:58:36] <malcom2073> Jymmm: you're assuming the owner of the airsoft pistol is angry that it's unable to shoot and kill people :P
[02:58:47] <malcom2073> My printer was under $1k
[02:59:18] <Jymmm> malcom2073: I never said an airsoft couldn't be lethal.
[02:59:18] <malcom2073> But if your point is that they can't make injection moulded quality parts, I agree.
[02:59:32] <malcom2073> However, that's not what you said.
[02:59:51] <Jymmm> malcom2073: it's an autmated glue gun,
[03:00:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150309-boxzy-an-all-in-one-3d-printer-laser-etcher-cnc-machine-launches-on-kickstarter.html is another example
[03:00:26] <malcom2073> Jymmm: There's no reason to continue talking about it.
[03:00:27] <CaptHindsight> $2500 for this
[03:00:37] <malcom2073> So I'll drop it.
[03:00:56] <LeelooMinai> CGGC - Computer Glue Gun Control - Machining:)
[03:01:17] <malcom2073> Amusingly enough, reprap is what got me into CNC in the first place :)
[03:01:23] <jdh> we have a laser sinter one at work. you have to send the result out to be ground if you want anything with a good finish
[03:01:29] <zeeshan> ROFL LeelooMinai
[03:05:45] <CaptHindsight> the majority of FDM suppliers are snake oil, why do they deserve any respect?
[03:06:17] <CaptHindsight> that's one of the problems, they should be called out for their scams
[03:06:59] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I like the blonde in the link you gave
[03:07:07] <CaptHindsight> but I guess that's the Amerikan way now, if it makes a profit then it's ok
[03:07:54] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Don't you know, we are a disposable society and we buy disposable stuff, like cars and such
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[03:10:38] <furrywolf> I do think the usefulness of glue-gun 3d printers is rather overstated... but I also think they're very useful in getting people interested in manufacturing, design, etc.
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[03:19:53] <zeeshan> hi furrywolf
[03:20:04] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/QSAN0SX.png
[03:20:06] <zeeshan> tada
[03:20:20] <CaptHindsight> is working?
[03:20:31] <zeeshan> if you multiply by the max scale value by that bitmap matrix
[03:20:34] <zeeshan> it seems to give good values
[03:20:35] <zeeshan> yes
[03:20:37] <furrywolf> did you extract scale data?
[03:20:45] <zeeshan> no
[03:20:50] <zeeshan> ill do it on monday or tomorrow
[03:20:59] <zeeshan> ill generate an image w/ same conditions, except scale
[03:22:07] <furrywolf> try to make them as identical as possible
[03:22:08] <zeeshan> the bad news is
[03:22:13] <zeeshan> i can't extract strain from them
[03:22:21] <furrywolf> ?
[03:22:23] <zeeshan> cause i noticed, the stuff moves in the xy plane too. not just z.
[03:22:31] <zeeshan> and i have no dots or anything to track.
[03:23:07] <zeeshan> the lines look like they stay fairly stationary and only move in Z.
[03:23:19] <zeeshan> maybe i can use them to get an "overall" strain
[03:23:23] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: how did you end up making the patterns?
[03:23:28] <CaptHindsight> spray?
[03:23:36] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: this is w/ optical microscope
[03:23:47] <zeeshan> no pattern yet
[03:23:51] <furrywolf> laser etch a grid pattern into your material, see how it distorts when pressed?
[03:24:02] <zeeshan> furrywolf: thats the big challenge on this matterial
[03:24:04] <zeeshan> you can't do that
[03:24:13] <zeeshan> you severely change the film properties
[03:24:14] <furrywolf> why not? :P
[03:24:20] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: post pics when you do if possible
[03:24:24] <furrywolf> film? you have a weird material.
[03:24:32] <zeeshan> its a sandwich of materials
[03:24:35] <zeeshan> film, adhesive, metal
[03:24:46] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: will do :)
[03:24:56] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: might not be until summer till i get back to that work again
[03:25:22] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: can I visit this summer?
[03:25:33] <zeeshan> ofcourse!
[03:25:35] <furrywolf> LOL! the ebay seller that offered me a $3 refund for my broken light, after I opened a case on ebay, is now offering me $8.
[03:25:44] <furrywolf> maybe he thinks if he pisses me off more, I'll be nicer?
[03:25:54] <zeeshan> how much was the light
[03:26:10] <furrywolf> $27
[03:26:19] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you get full credit for discovering the depth info in the file
[03:26:25] <zeeshan> i really wanan rub it in that guys face on monday
[03:26:38] <furrywolf> heh
[03:28:32] <furrywolf> 59cd10 1792.6854 1344.514 35.643032 0
[03:28:35] <furrywolf> 66d5c0 -2.912565e-25 -23183.521 35.64874 9148902
[03:28:41] <furrywolf> grr, wrong paste
[03:28:47] <furrywolf> 59cd10 1792.6854 1344.514 35.643032 0
[03:28:51] <furrywolf> 59cd10 1792.6854 1344.514 152.03207 0
[03:29:13] <furrywolf> recognize a number there?
[03:29:41] <zeeshan> hjahaha
[03:29:44] <zeeshan> HAHJAHAH
[03:29:53] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1853707494/pancakebot-the-worlds-first-pancake-printer
[03:29:57] <zeeshan> wait, which file is this
[03:30:04] <zeeshan> 001a.tif?
[03:30:12] <furrywolf> one is 001a, one is 025a
[03:30:46] <zeeshan> for 25a the 35.64 is the max scale value.
[03:30:53] <furrywolf> yep
[03:30:58] <furrywolf> and?
[03:31:27] <zeeshan> i dont see a 152 something in there
[03:31:31] <zeeshan> nm i do.
[03:31:32] <zeeshan> :)
[03:31:44] <zeeshan> that must b e the scale!
[03:31:50] <zeeshan> for x y and z.
[03:31:51] <furrywolf> same offset in both files, even.
[03:31:51] <furrywolf> yep
[03:32:03] <furrywolf> I don't know about x and y... those numbers could be anything. but it's possible.
[03:32:14] <zeeshan> whatd you do? use od to convert to float and search for the number?
[03:32:20] <furrywolf> yep
[03:32:36] <furrywolf> od -Ax -t f4 001a.tif | grep "152\.03"
[03:33:09] <zeeshan> nice :)
[03:33:26] <zeeshan> so the starting address is
[03:33:36] <zeeshan> erm lemme search it
[03:33:52] <furrywolf> the starting address is the first thing on the line.
[03:33:53] <furrywolf> in hex.
[03:35:20] <furrywolf> echo "Z scale:"$(od -An -t f4 -j 0x59cd18 -N 4 001a.tif)"um"
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[03:37:04] <zeeshan> im pretty sure the 0 refers to min values.
[03:37:07] <zeeshan> *value
[03:37:32] <furrywolf> identifying a non-changing "0" in an unknown file is pretty impossible.
[03:40:24] <furrywolf> if=025a.tif ; convert -depth 32 -size 400x300+5885308 -define quantum:format=floating-point gray:$if[0] $if.png ; tail -c +6365335 $if >$if.jpg ; echo "Z scale:"$(od -An -t f4 -j 0x59cd18 -N 4 $if)"um" added that to my one-line image splitter
[03:41:09] <furrywolf> that address, by the way, is in the space between the end of the tiff file and the start of the bitmap
[03:44:42] <ssi> eesh
[03:44:58] <zeeshan> they must have a crap load of info there
[03:45:17] <zeeshan> its only a couple bytes before the start
[03:48:40] <jdh> that is one spiffy convert line
[03:51:07] <zeeshan> hes advanced linux user! :p
[03:51:23] <jdh> indeed
[03:51:27] <zeeshan> its crazy how strong those commands are
[03:56:28] <tiwake> I looked around and couldent find an open source washing machine controller
[03:59:12] <furrywolf> ... open source washing machine controller?
[03:59:23] * furrywolf hands tiwake a timer with a clear plastic window stuck on the back
[04:02:45] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/broken%20screw%20head%2001.jpg first time I've had a screw break in the middle of the head, instead of the narrow shaft
[04:03:03] <furrywolf> (warning: macro mode abuse)
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[04:16:22] <tjtr33> tiwake, include a notifier ( email or SMS ). then move onto other machines that silently wait for you. Hal could do it!
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[04:27:09] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Your pentac camera takes some really great shots
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[04:29:25] <furrywolf> I've had a few, and have been quite happy with them. a couple of them fit in an altoids tin. :)
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[04:31:14] <Jymmm> I'm wanting another DSLR (last one got stolen), but not sure I want to spend that much this time.
[04:31:47] <furrywolf> I can't afford a dslr.
[04:31:55] <furrywolf> the pentax is a mini point-and-shoot.
[04:32:11] <Jymmm> Yeah, I looked it up after you lightbulb photo
[04:32:46] <Jymmm> Pentax Optio S10
[04:33:21] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-Optio-Digital-Camera-Optical/dp/B0013V5F14
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[04:43:48] <furrywolf> argh imagemagick can be frustrating.
[04:46:09] <zeeshan> still on it?
[04:46:10] <zeeshan> haha
[04:47:08] <furrywolf> I have it nicely recoloring the high resolution image, but I can't make it stick the scale label on it.
[04:47:47] <zeeshan> you should email the stuff to the makers of the microscope
[04:47:49] <zeeshan> :-)
[04:47:53] <furrywolf> I can add the label perfectly to simple images, but it won't add the label to the results of compositing the previous images, and I can't figure out why.
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[04:54:02] <furrywolf> argh... I might be hitting a bug.
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[05:01:29] <zeeshan> hm!!
[05:01:32] <zeeshan> gimp is powerful
[05:01:35] <zeeshan> but such a pain to use
[05:01:43] <zeeshan> mainly cause im a noob =D
[05:10:04] <zeeshan> finally learned how to animate
[05:10:17] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/sarKomJ.gif
[05:10:31] <furrywolf> I'm failing at some part of understanding imagemagick's layering
[05:10:41] <zeeshan> i can see that i need to get some more data points when the shape changes a lot
[05:11:13] <zeeshan> you really like your command line software dont you!
[05:13:40] <furrywolf> that animation is too large
[05:13:50] <zeeshan> i need details :-)
[05:13:58] <zeeshan> too bad its scaled up by 4x.
[05:13:58] <zeeshan> haha
[05:14:10] <zeeshan> now we know those bastards dont store the depth data as high resolution.
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[05:14:21] <zeeshan> its just a shitty overlay! :P
[05:14:23] <furrywolf> they probably don't have it at higher resolution
[05:14:34] <zeeshan> werll the image that you see
[05:14:41] <zeeshan> is no where close to the resolution of the 2d image
[05:14:48] <zeeshan> for but some reason, when youre in 3d mode, it degrades really bad
[05:14:55] <zeeshan> in high res, its like 54mp
[05:14:59] <zeeshan> (real mp)
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[05:15:34] <zeeshan> i'm a bit sad that i cant get a strain map out of this
[05:15:39] <zeeshan> i can only trace strain along the lines.
[05:15:46] <furrywolf> you need to unnormalize your data before making that image
[05:15:48] <zeeshan> and centerpoint
[05:15:54] <zeeshan> unnormalize?
[05:16:59] <furrywolf> so the same color means the same depth on every image
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[05:17:15] <zeeshan> thats a good fucking point
[05:17:37] <zeeshan> yea, this is completely misleading otherwise.
[05:18:59] <furrywolf> :P
[05:19:07] <furrywolf> it makes no sense as it is now
[05:19:45] <zeeshan> im thinking what the best way to equalize scale each image
[05:19:57] <zeeshan> i know the scale for each image, i can find the maximum value out of all those scales
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[05:20:51] * zeeshan will need to think about this
[05:20:55] <zeeshan> its 1:30 am. brain slow :)
[05:21:00] <zeeshan> and i need food
[05:25:06] <furrywolf> for some reason I am failing to understand, if I do other operations later, my perfectly-overlayed image ends up with the contrast cranked up to 100% or something similar, despite my doing no such operations of any kind
[05:26:48] <zeeshan> all i know is you need to find a job
[05:26:54] <zeeshan> where you can utilize all these skills!
[05:27:14] <furrywolf> ... because I need to specify -respect-parenthesis. because -ignore-parenthesis-and-do-things-broken seems to be the default.
[05:28:59] <zeeshan> so i thought about the algorithm
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[05:29:39] <zeeshan> find max scale value out of all the images, , multiple each images scale's value by its scale max. divide all the images's height data by the maximum scale value
[05:29:48] <zeeshan> this will normalize them all equally
[05:30:59] <furrywolf> convert -respect-parenthesis \( -size 1600x1200 -background transparent -fill white -strokewidth 2 -stroke black -pointsize 36 label:"$(echo "Z scale:"$(od -An -t f4 -j 0x59cd18 -N 4 025a.tif)"um")" \) \( 025a.tif.jpg \( 025a.tif.png -resize 1600x1200 \( xc:black xc:red xc:yellow xc:green1 xc:cyan xc:blue xc:black +append -filter Cubic -resize 600x30\! \) -clut -alpha set -channel a -evaluate set 90% +channel \) -compose overlay -composite \) -compose d
[05:31:06] <furrywolf> now that's an imagemagick command.
[05:31:12] <zeeshan> rofl
[05:31:21] <zeeshan> i dont know how you do it.
[05:31:29] <zeeshan> its crazy.
[05:31:41] * furrywolf waits for it to slowly upload
[05:33:17] <furrywolf> http://imgur.com/M7zsdxL
[05:34:37] <zeeshan> impressive
[05:34:46] <zeeshan> thats a powerful software
[05:34:52] <zeeshan> and its crazy you know how to work it :p
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[05:35:19] <furrywolf> ... sorta
[05:37:21] <furrywolf> what it really needs is some bump mapping too...
[05:37:23] <zeeshan> i wonder if LeelooMinai's vfd has burned down
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[05:38:04] <zeeshan> it 'bump maps' in the actual software
[05:39:02] <furrywolf> I need to find the slope at any point in the image and use that to tweak the color to exagerate the 3d effect.
[05:39:02] <furrywolf> but first, I need sleep.
[05:40:35] <zeeshan> youre pretty much reverse engineering their software
[05:40:36] <zeeshan> lol
[05:40:47] <zeeshan> (analysis part of it)
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[05:42:54] <furrywolf> no, I'm just inventing how to make pretty pictures from depth data
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[05:45:04] <furrywolf> funky. I did something wrong, but the result is cool. :P
[05:45:23] <zeeshan> pic?
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[05:45:42] <furrywolf> uploading. slow.
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[05:49:47] <furrywolf> my connection might be sucking too badly.
[05:50:36] <zeeshan> lol
[05:50:39] <zeeshan> how big is the file
[05:51:03] <furrywolf> just a normal jpg
[05:51:20] <furrywolf> 280kb
[05:51:30] <zeeshan> haha
[05:51:41] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/acG78Sq.gifv
[05:51:44] <zeeshan> i guess you dont wanna open that :)
[05:52:05] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/acG78Sq.gif
[05:52:09] <zeeshan> this one might be less intensive
[05:53:04] <zeeshan> its a bit more stable now
[05:53:14] <zeeshan> the outside is remaining red
[05:53:19] <furrywolf> http://imgur.com/hXhYFVU
[05:53:35] <zeeshan> that looks kreepy
[05:53:36] <zeeshan> haha
[05:53:38] <zeeshan> creepy
[05:57:11] <furrywolf> that data still doesn't look properly scaled?
[05:57:19] <zeeshan> it is
[05:57:40] <furrywolf> why does it have all the way from red to blue in every frame, even the last one, which is almost flat?
[05:58:46] <zeeshan> i multiplied each image's scale value by the bitmap file so a value like .791 became 111.11 for example, then i found out what the maximum scale value was, and then i divided that value by all the matrices. so the 111.11 value became .521 for example
[05:59:02] <zeeshan> then i use that value to get the color scheme.
[05:59:13] <zeeshan> basically if .521 is red, it'll stay red in all the images
[05:59:53] <zeeshan> it should have red in the last one too
[05:59:59] <zeeshan> because only the diamond shape is changing
[06:00:02] <zeeshan> not the area around it
[06:00:12] <zeeshan> actually wait that doesnt make sense
[06:00:50] <zeeshan> it should all go blue
[06:00:53] <zeeshan> maybe thats an error.
[06:00:57] <zeeshan> in the actual data itself
[06:01:15] <zeeshan> the scope takes like 5000 images in 1 sec
[06:01:36] <zeeshan> changing the focus of each image. so if something is out of focus in the image , it will be an error point
[06:02:52] <zeeshan> i also noticed, my sample slightly moved during the test
[06:02:57] <zeeshan> =/
[06:03:23] <furrywolf> back to the lab! :P
[06:03:26] <zeeshan> haha
[06:03:33] <t12> whats this thing for?
[06:03:33] <zeeshan> the main purpose of this test was for proof of concept
[06:03:45] <zeeshan> im using a cold plate to freeze the action
[06:03:54] <zeeshan> the first 15 images are over a span of 10 minutes
[06:04:03] <zeeshan> you can see that there isn't _much_ change
[06:04:10] <zeeshan> t12 my thesis
[06:04:34] <t12> i mean wahts actually being videoed and why etc
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[06:04:40] <t12> microscoped
[06:04:41] <t12> photoed
[06:05:12] <furrywolf> I tried adding more shading, but the lazy way I tried didn't work well, and I'm too tired to implement a better method.
[06:05:29] <zeeshan> sleep dude
[06:05:29] <zeeshan> lol
[06:05:46] <zeeshan> t12:
http://i.imgur.com/0UE3gYQ.png
[06:06:01] <zeeshan> im indenting a shape memory polymer - adhesive- metal laminate
[06:06:13] <zeeshan> and trying to study it's shape recovery behaviour among other things
[06:06:15] <zeeshan> as a function of temp
[06:06:26] <t12> oh so all the images are like
[06:06:28] <t12> depth maps
[06:06:31] <zeeshan> yes
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[06:06:47] <zeeshan> the depth is changing as a function of time, and temperature
[06:07:03] <zeeshan> so id like to correlate those with the depth
[06:07:15] <zeeshan> for different types of smp's
[06:07:20] <zeeshan> and non smp
[06:07:22] <t12> how are you actually judging depth
[06:07:37] <zeeshan> the microscope uses a focusing technique to determine depth
[06:07:47] <t12> z stacks and sharpness?
[06:07:48] <zeeshan> i was sayin above it takes like 5000 images per second
[06:07:58] <zeeshan> while changing the focus for each image
[06:08:08] <zeeshan> and computes a depth map from it
[06:08:19] <zeeshan> i was skeptical about it first, but i machined some plates to known depth
[06:08:28] <zeeshan> and it was within .01 mm
[06:08:31] <t12> whats the scope
[06:08:36] <zeeshan> vhx5000
[06:08:39] <t12> yeah it should be good to the limits of the objective
[06:08:54] <zeeshan> i thought it was 2000, but its actually the 5000
[06:08:56] <zeeshan> not sure what the diff is :p
[06:10:06] <t12> so you're trying to reverse engineer its storage format?
[06:10:18] <zeeshan> furrywolf and me have cracked most of it
[06:10:19] <zeeshan> haha
[06:10:41] <zeeshan> furrywolf found the data locations of the hidden info/images
[06:11:13] <zeeshan> we had to do all this, because they don't let you export a 3d point cloud out of the software.
[06:13:48] <t12> those look like neat microscopes
[06:14:53] <zeeshan> furry, i m actually animating the 3d images now
[06:15:02] <zeeshan> it really shows it a lot better on whats going on
[06:25:28] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/hpvNhJS.gif
[06:25:34] <zeeshan> you can see the error in the scope better now :)
[06:27:10] <zeeshan> whoops error in that
[06:27:47] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/SZjelxl.gif
[06:29:50] <furrywolf> you seem to be holding the bottom of the indentation still rather than the rest of the piece
[06:30:14] <zeeshan> it might be how the microscope works
[06:30:18] <zeeshan> it tries to keep the bottom constant
[06:30:22] <zeeshan> i dunno
[06:30:57] <furrywolf> so the microscope also normalizes it so the deepest part is z=0 then?
[06:31:02] <zeeshan> yes
[06:31:04] <zeeshan> thats what im thinking
[06:31:10] <zeeshan> cause if you notice the scale
[06:31:13] <zeeshan> the blue always is 0.
[06:32:29] <furrywolf> so add maxscale-scale to every point for each image? (i.e. if the max is 130, and that image's is 50, add 80 to every point)
[06:33:35] <zeeshan> yea thatll work
[06:34:59] <zeeshan> well the bad news is
[06:35:04] <zeeshan> it looks like my temperature plate isn't working
[06:35:04] <zeeshan> :[
[06:35:13] <zeeshan> this bloody thing starts recovering
[06:35:34] <zeeshan> so im likely losing data between the time i go from the indenter to the microscope.
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[06:36:26] <zeeshan> i think i need to plot the value at the tip
[06:36:34] <zeeshan> for each interval and see what sup
[06:36:43] <zeeshan> fak im tired!
[06:37:13] <furrywolf> did you get it so your rim stays in one place instead of the bottom?
[06:37:31] <zeeshan> ?!
[06:37:41] <zeeshan> what rim
[06:39:24] <furrywolf> the outside of the image area
[06:39:55] <furrywolf> I need to get to bed.
[06:39:58] <zeeshan> no i didnt set it like that yet
[06:40:01] <zeeshan> me too!
[06:40:02] <zeeshan> :p
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[06:54:58] <aventtini> hello
[06:55:20] <aventtini> my first time on the irc chanel
[06:55:23] <aventtini> channel
[06:56:31] <furrywolf> aventtini: heyas! unfortunately, it's after bedtime for most people here, and that's where I'm about to head too.
[06:56:49] <aventtini> here to :D
[06:56:50] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I got a first version of 3d shading done, but now I'm going to bed.
[06:57:03] <aventtini> its 8 a clock
[06:57:05] <aventtini> :D
[06:57:14] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you're addicted
[06:57:15] <zeeshan> lol
[06:57:22] <furrywolf> zeeshan:
http://imgur.com/kXSLjYm
[06:57:26] <aventtini> im learning manual
[06:57:28] <aventtini> :D
[06:57:34] <zeeshan> wow thats impressive
[07:00:19] <furrywolf> lol
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[07:00:38] <furrywolf> http://imgur.com/QvMxmzC too dark, still needs work, but it shows the idea is good.
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[07:34:53] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/7Mflttm.png
[07:35:07] <zeeshan> looks like i need to repeat the tests a couple of times to reduce the scatter in the beginning.
[07:35:21] <zeeshan> theres no way the indent is shrinking and then growing lol
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[07:44:53] <archivist> zeeshan, but what I want to know, can we start making our own scopes once we know what is going on
[07:45:01] <zeeshan> haha
[07:45:03] <zeeshan> i dont thinkso
[07:45:09] <zeeshan> well its possible
[07:45:15] <zeeshan> but you know it's all about the optics
[07:45:19] <zeeshan> and the fancy ccd cams
[07:46:02] <archivist> actually possibly mechanics and software
[07:47:15] <archivist> looking for peak frequency in the data at each image
[07:47:46] <archivist> fourier transform to do that
[07:48:10] <archivist> I think that is how autofocus works
[07:48:23] <zeeshan> it must
[07:48:32] <zeeshan> i just looked at the specs its 50frames/s
[07:48:39] <zeeshan> so its interpolating massively
[07:49:21] <archivist> I have seen one in action at a show with that little gear I made
[07:50:34] <zeeshan> yea its pretty cool
[07:50:44] <zeeshan> i hope i can get better data!
[07:52:19] <archivist> there are some measurements I thought it was picking the incorrect point though, iirc it was a bit out on the hole diameter
[07:53:21] <zeeshan> i personally think its accuracy is about 0.02mm
[07:53:54] <zeeshan> thats what i was gettin when i measured known depths in solid metal
[07:54:14] <zeeshan> ok i need to sleep!
[07:55:07] <archivist> but it is time to get up!
[07:55:10] <zeeshan> hehe
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[08:04:26] <Deejay> moin
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[08:58:16] <anonimasu> hello
[08:58:41] <anonimasu> can i somehow force classicladder to show me timers(ms) ones..
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[09:17:01] <archivist> define show, I would connect them to pins if possible and then show in some way
[09:19:58] <archivist> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/ladder/classic_ladder.html#_the_variable_windows seems to show something
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[10:25:38] <eventor> first use , test
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[13:47:46] <JT-Shop> is possible to sharpen drill bits on a surface grinder?
[13:48:42] <SpeedEvil> Technically, sure.
[13:49:06] <SpeedEvil> Arrange a jig to hold in the appropriate orientation, do a pass, move, repeat
[13:49:17] <JT-Shop> what about practically?
[13:49:19] <SpeedEvil> It may take less time to rub it against some paper
[13:49:38] <SpeedEvil> A standard grinder will be much, much faster
[13:49:49] <JT-Shop> standard?
[13:50:12] <SpeedEvil> That is - assuming you don't just use the surface grinder freehand and get at the wheel while spinning
[13:50:17] <SpeedEvil> bench grinder
[13:51:32] <JT-Shop> I suck at sharpening by hand
[13:52:06] <archivist> get one of those cheap jigs
[13:52:07] <SpeedEvil> How much have you done?
[13:52:10] <JT-Shop> I've seen those jigs for sharpening end mills for a surface grinder
[13:52:36] <archivist> I mean drill bit jigs for bench grinders
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[13:52:37] <JT-Shop> I've sharpened a few dozen over the years by hand
[13:52:46] <SpeedEvil> Not enough.
[13:52:58] <SpeedEvil> You need to sharpen a lot of drillbits at once to get a reasonable skill
[13:53:04] <JT-Shop> I had a jig once for bench grinder but it was a cheap one and didn't work well
[13:53:11] <SpeedEvil> Well - at least enough to get proficient at it
[13:53:23] <SpeedEvil> doing one every two years craply will never help
[13:53:32] <JT-Shop> I don't want the skill, I just want to sharpen a >1/2" bit from time to time
[13:53:50] <SpeedEvil> Then get a jig or a little machine
[13:54:22] <SpeedEvil> Or make a leeeeetle CNC sharpener :)
[13:54:32] <SpeedEvil> There is totally a market for that on kickstarter
[13:54:50] <SpeedEvil> Arbitrary geometry say up to 40mm tool sharpener
[13:55:29] <SpeedEvil> takes in carbide rod, out pops drills.
[13:55:46] <JT-Shop> I have plans for a drill bit sharpener but don't have time to make one
[13:55:48] <CaptHindsight> http://its.foxvalleytech.com/MachShop1/Bench/sterlingdrl/Vtrough.jpg
[13:56:51] <JT-Shop> looks like a dedicated drill sharpening machine
[13:56:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/drill_sharpener_1.jpg
[13:57:41] <JT-Shop> I had one of those in the past
[13:58:02] <JT-Shop> don't think the one I had looked as nice
[14:00:14] <archivist> the nice thing about hand grinding drill bits is adjusting the hole size deliberately
[14:00:18] <JT-Shop> this any good?
http://www.tormek.com/en/jigs/dbs22/
[14:00:40] <JT-Shop> lol I can't even get the cutting edges the same height
[14:01:24] <CaptHindsight> by the time I'm done the bit has lost 1/2" in length :)
[14:01:48] <JT-Shop> by the time I'm don't I've bought a new one
[14:07:16] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: do you cast steel or lower melting point metals?
[14:08:00] <JT-Shop> I plan on going up to brass/bronze
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[14:29:39] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo - not strictly on topic
[14:29:47] <SpeedEvil> err
[14:29:48] <SpeedEvil> not that
[14:29:59] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo
[14:30:03] <SpeedEvil> doh
[14:30:36] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvx0jXbKkV0 - that one.
[14:30:43] <SpeedEvil> Insanely complicated watch/orrrery
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[14:42:44] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: Tourbillons are silly anyway, but that one is sillier than most
[14:43:17] <SpeedEvil> Indeed - quite awesome - but I don't know that I actually remotely want one
[14:43:31] <andypugh> (A tourbillon helps get a better number for the difference between the positions in the chronometer tests, but has no effect on real-world accuracy when the watch is worn)
[14:44:14] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-Lathe-mini-ManSon-restored-antique-micro-Monarch-10EE-jewelers-watch-/231414756807 - would be more my silly purchase
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[14:47:53] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/manson/index.html
[14:48:53] <SpeedEvil> neat
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[14:52:47] <andypugh> There is another on eBay with no back cover. $764 no bids
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[14:55:37] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - I'd probably buy one no question at the original price - $58
[14:56:02] <SpeedEvil> But I can't justify full-size lathe money on a toy :)
[14:56:29] <andypugh> I don’t think that they are _exactly_ a toy, but te ergonomics are a bit wrong for a machine of that size.
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[14:58:08] <Cromaglious]> Morning
[14:58:36] <SpeedEvil> Yes - it's not a toy.
[14:58:42] <SpeedEvil> It's a usable micro-lathe.
[14:59:21] <Cromaglious]> SpeedEvil: URL?
[14:59:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.lathes.co.uk/manson/index.html http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-Lathe-mini-ManSon-restored-antique-micro-Monarch-10EE-jewelers-watch-/231414756807
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[15:01:29] <Cromaglious]_> nice looking lathe
[15:02:26] <andypugh> Smaller than it looks
[15:02:34] <Cromaglious]_> Off to the train museum this morning.. Gonna try to get some pictures of their lathes nd mills and any CNC they may have
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[15:03:46] <archivist> Cromaglious, which museum ?
[15:04:07] <Cromaglious]_> Orange Empire Rail in perris, CA
[15:04:26] <archivist> not been there
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[15:05:40] <Cromaglious]_> nwither have I, except for 30 minutes last night unloading car
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[16:20:26] * anonimasu sighs
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[16:21:07] <anonimasu> anyone got a clue how to get a better resolution timer then the clasicladder 100ms base ones?
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[16:28:18] <archivist> anonimasu,
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/oneshot.9.html
[16:29:11] <archivist> or if measuring then
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/timedelta.9.html
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[16:40:05] <furrywolf> so, it poured last night, but it's bright sun today... should I head out and look for yard sales, or decide they all got rain out?
[16:40:58] <Tom_itx> it's sunny... go.
[16:43:26] <furrywolf> well, the sun seems to be being replaced by clouds again... I guess I should wait a bit and see which way it goes.
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[16:57:52] <archivist> if you wait too long the bargains will have gone
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[17:25:26] <zeeshan> :O
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[17:31:25] * archivist wonders what aventtini is doing with his connection
[17:32:22] <pcw_home> lousy wireless connection?
[17:32:34] <furrywolf> zeeshan:
http://imgur.com/gs2bb3K I tweaked the coloring a bit last night
[17:32:36] <furrywolf> bbl, garage sales
[17:32:40] <SpeedEvil> And by this of course I mean the point in the universe where veterinary medicine, soap bubble making, and butt sex cross paths. See people who bought J-lube also bought Dawn manual pot & pan. Why? Because these are the soap bubble enthusiasts. Other people bought J-lube and the Extra Large SensaFirm Balled Cock 11 Inch Mocha. That's a whole nother segment of the market that comes together in this tiny speck of the Venn diagram with the soap
[17:32:40] <SpeedEvil> bubblers AND the veterinarians who need to do obstetrical work and artificial inseminations in large animals. We are all just 6 purchases away from each other in the Amazon universe!
[17:32:41] <SpeedEvil> err
[17:32:45] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[17:32:54] <zeeshan> looks like glue :)
[17:33:18] <SpeedEvil> Stupid mouse.
[17:33:27] <archivist> pcw_home, he quits rather than times out
[17:33:49] <pcw_home> funny irc client?
[17:34:56] <SpeedEvil> Some iphones do that IIRC
[17:35:08] <SpeedEvil> if you switch away from the browser, it kills the web-IRC session
[17:35:21] <zeeshan> yep
[17:35:26] <zeeshan> mine does that.
[17:35:28] <pcw_home> thats nice
[17:36:03] <furrywolf> I'm still waiting for the other one to upload so I can leave. stupid connection.
[17:36:42] <furrywolf> http://imgur.com/gvWqxce yay, finally. bbl.
[17:37:32] <SpeedEvil> That is a very bad skin condition
[17:39:10] <zeeshan> lol
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[17:40:42] <archivist> lance it quick
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[17:58:36] <Tecan> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:112718 << threadless ball screw
[18:00:03] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it doesn't really work unless you also have a positioning thingy
[18:00:21] <SpeedEvil> resolver, or ...
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[18:00:51] <SpeedEvil> I have wondered about using one of them.
[18:01:24] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: is one bearing at an angle?
[18:01:34] <SpeedEvil> Combined axes and 'ballscrew' - made from a scaffolding pole
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[18:01:40] <SpeedEvil> All the bearings are, I think
[18:02:20] <pcw_home> yes all bearings are canted limited force though
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[18:03:01] <SpeedEvil> For very, very limited force, it might be sort-of-repeatable-enough
[18:03:06] <SpeedEvil> As long as you zero often
[18:03:09] <pcw_home> I used those many years ago for a wafer boat loader
[18:03:26] <pcw_home> (with potentiometer feedback)
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[18:04:19] <Jymmm> http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/d6/f2/40/95/cf/ball_screw_8mm_10_deg_preview_featured.jpg
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[18:05:22] <Jymmm> Interesting, I wonder if you had tapered bearings would it still work.
[18:07:21] <SpeedEvil> yes
[18:07:28] <SpeedEvil> The key is that they're canted to the shaft
[18:07:34] <SpeedEvil> the profile doesn't matter
[18:07:38] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I haven't been following the conversation, what are these drawings you've been creating for?
[18:07:58] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Well, I meant the edge of the bearing full enganged witht he shaft
[18:09:13] <Jymmm> trapezoidal shaped bearings
[18:09:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pc-taper-roller-bearing-32912-Auto-Wheel-Tapered-China-Bearing-60x85x17mm/1917169055.html
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[18:11:00] <Jymmm> yeah, like that =)
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[18:11:39] <SpeedEvil> Probably smaller in most cases
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[18:13:33] <Jymmm> I wouldn't use that for machining purposes. but thought it be cool for a tree house with a pole that you can slide down. just turn the pole to raise a basket of supplies. And by supploes I mena all the junk fod a kid could want =)
[18:14:04] <Jymmm> without ropes and such.
[18:14:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Skating-Shoes-608ZZ-Bearing-Inline-Skate-Wheel-Clear-Gray-WL-/281623656009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item419213f649 might work well
[18:15:09] <SpeedEvil> You'd need a _lot_ of turns though
[18:15:35] <Jymmm> It's a kid, LOTS of energy, keeps em busy and out of trouble =)
[18:15:36] <SpeedEvil> Implying a fast rotation, and potential hazard (hair, ...)
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[18:16:45] <Jymmm> Eh, hair is overrated.
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[18:28:45] <JT-Shop> I don't know why I can't use my square 5c holder and a fixture to sharpen bits on the surface grinder
[18:29:17] <JT-Shop> I've sharpened thousands of point cutters on a surface grinder using fixtures to hold them
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[18:30:31] <SpeedEvil> You can
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[18:30:58] <SpeedEvil> It's just you'll need several-many positions if you want to make a normal shaped drill
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[18:32:40] <JT-Shop> well the square 5c holder takes care of two sides so you only need two angles on each side to do all 4 angles and 2 sides
[18:32:51] <Jymmm> I love the "metalness" of this machine...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX-vIgvB1-o
[18:33:03] <SpeedEvil> Drill surfaces are not flat
[18:33:40] <JT-Shop> http://www.tormek.com/en/jigs/dbs22/
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[18:33:59] <JT-Shop> it would be the same as they are doing with this machine I think
[18:34:12] <SpeedEvil> Well,do that then
[18:34:30] <SpeedEvil> In principle there isn't anything wrong - if you can get it setup accurately and registered
[18:35:16] <JT-Shop> I don't see the problem with setting it up and getting the drill square to the square holder
[18:36:05] <SpeedEvil> Go for it then.
[18:36:25] <JT-Shop> I need to cook a sack of crawfish first
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[22:05:11] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:17:44] <LeelooMinai> Infally I can access GS2 from my Windows PC:
http://i.imgur.com/Qc9qAP9.png
[22:17:53] <LeelooMinai> Finally even:)
[22:18:11] <LeelooMinai> All I had to do was: GS2 VFD -> RS485 -> SERIAL -> FTDI IC -> USB -> linuxcnc PC -> FTDI driver -> /dev/ttyUSB0 -> ser2net -> TCP/IP -> my Windows PC -> HW VSP3 -> virtual COM4 -> qModMaster
[22:18:14] <LeelooMinai> :p
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[23:25:36] <JT-Shop> mmm, the mud bugs were good
[23:25:47] <jdh> steamed?
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