#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-03-12

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[00:03:00] <georgenz> Am wondering how to setup an xhc mpg wheel
[00:03:59] <georgenz> Have bought one and it doesnt seem to do anytging right out of the box. Linux wiki says drivers are preinstalled in versions newer than 2.6.0
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[00:15:26] <Bushman> i always wanted a tool changer for my homemade CNC with kress spindle...
[00:15:42] <Bushman> now i'm having secong thoughts after seeing the price: http://www.usovo.de/shop/Milling-spindles-accessories/Adapter-tool-changer/Kress-Toolchanger/Toolchanger-System-Kress-530-FM-800-FME-and-1050-FME::566.html?MODsid=j1ja35k9jmq1jcam5fl2c2qee4
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[00:20:56] <jdh> how much does the kress cost?
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[00:35:38] <Simonious> Alright, I homed all 3 axes, I expected to see the toolhead jump to 0,0,0 on the display, but it didn't do that, if it doesn't do that I can't zero the work. Am I doing the wrong thing?
[00:36:57] <renesis> hit '#' i think
[00:37:13] <Simonious> trying that..
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[00:37:24] <renesis> its maybe displaying workspace origin corrdinates instead of machine origin coordinates
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[00:38:00] <renesis> i think it defaults to work space so you have to change to machine space to see 0,0,0 when you home
[00:38:39] <Simonious> Hmm, well the loaded gcode is positioned as if the toolhead is starting at 0,0,0. If I let it run in air now.. it's WAY off (as one would expect based on what it shows on the screen) *ponders*
[00:39:13] <Simonious> renesis: when I used #, it showed some coords jumping around, but the gcode didn't jump with it..?
[00:39:14] <renesis> you home, and that sets your machine origin, in machine space or home space
[00:39:26] <renesis> then you touch off you work in workspace
[00:39:57] <Simonious> I'm confident that my novice skills are the problem here, but..
[00:40:22] <renesis> you only have one machine origin (G53 space), can have lots of work origins (work spaces g54-g59...)
[00:40:26] <Simonious> until the toolhead shows it's homed AND it lines up with the gcode on the screen I expect the same results I got before (it tries to work in wilding the wrongplace)
[00:40:29] <Simonious> *wildly
[00:40:44] <renesis> yeah # just changes the view
[00:41:00] <Simonious> So the gcode is lined up for 0,0,0
[00:41:13] <renesis> so you have to home the machine, then jog to where the origin of your gcode is, than touch off in the workspace your gcode is in
[00:41:17] <Simonious> I positioned the toolhead where I wanted 0,0,0 to be and homed all axes with the nice button
[00:41:29] <Simonious> it didn't move the toolhead representation on the screen at all (to line up with the gcode)
[00:41:38] <renesis> usually gcode is in g54 if its specified
[00:42:19] <renesis> yeah you have to go put the xyz origin for the gcode somewhere, before running code, after homing the machine
[00:42:32] <Simonious> maybe I'm asking the wrong question - the toolhead is where I want it, how can I make that 0,0,0
[00:42:47] <Simonious> hmm your last statement suggests I'm really confused! *thinks*
[00:42:47] <renesis> i think in axis gui its touch-off
[00:42:56] <renesis> button next to home-axis
[00:43:16] <Simonious> touch off scares me - I'm expecting it to move and touch something.. I don't want that
[00:43:28] <renesis> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/images/axis-2.5.png
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[00:43:50] <renesis> Home All is scary, but not anymore because unhome axis
[00:44:05] <renesis> Touch Off is what sets your gcode origin
[00:44:14] <Simonious> trying that
[00:44:16] <renesis> Home All sets the machine origin
[00:45:04] <renesis> if you had axis soft limits, and you hit home all accidentally, before you couldnt unhome and you would get stuck =(
[00:45:30] <renesis> but now you go to Machine > Unhome All Axis, or something like that
[00:46:47] <Simonious> touch off did exactly what I needed. I appreciate your patience with me there. :)
[00:46:52] <Simonious> the cut is underway
[00:46:58] <renesis> simonious: remember you have to home each axis first, because gcode (workspace) origin is recorded in machine (home) coordinates
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[00:47:26] <renesis> yeah its confusing because they both do the same thing
[00:47:29] <Simonious> last time I did a cut it lined up right away and I was able to skip the touch off step, just the home step worked fine. This is where I became confused
[00:48:04] <renesis> if you dont have soft limits, and youve never touched off, they might default to 0,0,0
[00:48:28] <renesis> so homing wouldnt get you stuck, and gcode origin would be same place as home
[00:49:16] <renesis> i do my machine coordinates in negative space, so one limit is around zero, bit positive
[00:49:40] <renesis> so when i home, soft limits wont let me move in one direction
[00:49:58] <renesis> because already at zero
[00:51:03] <Simonious> It's happily cutting until I have to manually change out the tool.. no auto changer for me - yet
[00:51:20] <Simonious> don't have the touch plate fully set up yet either, so I get to eyeball it
[00:51:35] <renesis> yeah i dont have a tool changer, and because i have spring collets i have to rezero every tool change
[00:52:09] <renesis> so i have to cut the code up so i can rezero the tool between cycles
[00:52:12] <Simonious> so change the tool, position it in Z and then..? hit home? touch off?
[00:52:27] <renesis> no you only hit home when you turn on the machine
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[00:52:37] <renesis> after that you touch off
[00:53:37] <renesis> home/machinespace/g53 origin tells the machine where the axis are
[00:53:59] <renesis> workspace/g54 origin tells the machine where the part is
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[00:54:28] <renesis> g54 is recorded using the g53 coordinates, so if you change g53, g54 will change too
[00:54:28] <Simonious> well.. looks like this is a 'learning cut' wood broke off in a couple spots AND.. I had a couple spots that were too narrow for my toolhead so I lied to cambam to get toolpaths to go through those spots and the extra tool width resulted in two regions merging that weren't supposed to..
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[00:56:13] <Simonious> I told cambam my tool was .05", it's really .17..
[00:56:22] <renesis> anyway, for now just remember you home all one time, before everything else
[00:56:29] <renesis> always in the same place
[00:56:31] * Simonious nods
[00:56:52] <Simonious> but I can do a z-touch between tools?
[00:56:53] <renesis> then you do touch off to move the gcode paths around
[00:57:04] <renesis> yeah you touch off the z
[00:57:22] <renesis> you can set touch length offsets and use tool change gcode
[00:57:49] <renesis> but if you have to do it every time for some reason (like you dont have fixed cnc tool holders) its kind of pointless to change tool offsets
[00:57:54] <Simonious> I would be happier if the gcode assumed all the tools were the same length and I manually rezeroed between tools
[00:58:10] * Simonious nods
[00:58:11] <renesis> just keep the same tool and touch off z axis to change offset
[00:58:18] <Simonious> :)
[00:58:48] <renesis> its more steps to do it 'automatically'
[00:59:17] <renesis> you have to make sure all your tool length offsets in the machine match
[00:59:34] <Simonious> yeah, we've got a Haas here with a toolchanger, but for now I'm on the router table manually changing tools :P
[00:59:35] <renesis> or, you have to remove all tool change calls in the code
[00:59:58] <renesis> ha, yeah the haas prob doesnt need much setup
[01:00:09] * Simonious shrugs
[01:00:14] <renesis> tell the cam thing you have a haas, done
[01:00:19] <Simonious> I watch it work sometimes, but I've never run it.
[01:00:49] <renesis> its bit easier than linuxcnc but its pretty much the same thing as axis gui
[01:01:02] <renesis> the haas has a really cool jog wheel
[01:01:05] <Simonious> When working plastic or wood I'm getting closer to what the Haas can do.
[01:01:27] <Simonious> We've got a jog wheel on the router that isn't half bad. It's a wireless unit out of China, another guy here set that up early this week.
[01:01:43] <renesis> wireless in a shop, balls
[01:01:47] <Simonious> It's very handy when positioning the toolhead.
[01:02:25] <Simonious> Eh, it's got a long range, it never has to go more than about 5 or 10 feet
[01:02:28] <renesis> yeah short keyboard cables and linuxcnc are kind of a pain
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[01:03:16] <renesis> simonious: i would just worry about all the EM interference from the motor cables and power in general
[01:03:36] <renesis> like im sure it would work 95% of the time =\
[01:04:24] <renesis> a lot of that stuff is more likely to do nothing than flip out if it gets bad signals, so prob not that big a deal
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[01:05:15] <Simonious> I'd be very surprised to see a fail that did anything
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[02:47:33] <adam3999> hey guys check this out
[02:47:34] <adam3999> http://i.imgur.com/Ayn1o4g.jpg
[02:47:41] <adam3999> think of the chips you could make if those screws were end mills!
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[02:55:30] <SpeedEvil> Big pump is big.
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[02:59:51] <zeeshan> sexy supercharger
[03:00:01] <zeeshan> :P
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[03:06:11] <tiwake> hey, anyone machine 416 stainless before? how does it compare to other materials?
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[03:16:12] <furrywolf> you know you've worked on too many cars when you can change your own distributer on the side of the road... in five minutes.
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[03:20:18] <tiwake> happens
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[03:40:25] <Tom_itx> yay, got all my linux files copied to the new hdd. had to fix grub but it's working now
[03:40:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/776643-how-to-rescue-a-non-booting-grub-2-on-linux/
[03:40:49] <Tom_itx> was helpful
[03:41:22] <furrywolf> tomorrow is going to have to be distributer rebuilding day... I have three bad ones and no good ones. the one that died today had so much shaft runout it ate the sensor. the one I put in today isn't much better. I got one from someone that has good bearings, but fried electronics...
[03:41:53] <furrywolf> going to take back out the working one and put its electronics into the one with good bearings, and see if it fits...
[03:43:20] <furrywolf> I didn't manage to get the timing set right on the side of the road, so have to do more work on it anyway...
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[03:44:48] <tiwake> so no one has machined 416 stainless steel before?
[03:45:11] <furrywolf> not sure what's up with the timing... it either has no power or it pings, couldn't find the sweet spot.
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[03:50:35] <Cromaglious> TIG welded it, ground it, never machined it
[03:50:58] <Cromaglious> oos no that was 316L
[03:51:12] <Cromaglious> s/oos/oops/
[03:51:35] <tiwake> heh
[03:51:45] <tiwake> 316 and 304 is a pain in the flank
[03:51:52] <tiwake> but nicer to weld, so I've heard
[03:52:01] <tiwake> (I don't weld at all...)
[03:52:12] <zeeshan> both easy to machine
[03:52:18] <zeeshan> depending on how you to do it :P
[03:52:20] <Cromaglious> dream to weld.. Sticky as ALL GET OUT grinding....
[03:52:22] <tiwake> made some parts on the lathe out of 304
[03:52:45] <tiwake> after the first batch we told the guy either the price needs to change, or the material
[03:52:54] <Cromaglious> I still have some short lengths of 316L 1/16 and 3/32 rod
[03:54:03] <tiwake> we don't care about weldability, only machineability
[03:55:04] <tiwake> zeeshan: drilling, tapping, and turning
[03:55:06] <zeeshan> whats wrong with machining it
[03:55:16] <zeeshan> you just gotta take appropriate depth of cuts
[03:55:29] <zeeshan> tapping it is a bad idea :P
[03:55:42] <zeeshan> thread mill it! :P
[03:55:46] <Cromaglious> 316l don't plasma cut for didly
[03:55:59] <tiwake> thread mill?
[03:56:14] <furrywolf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seine_%28PSF%29.png where do I get these magical floats that float several feet above the water?
[03:56:48] <tiwake> I'm keeping them out of the mill, we are running it on a C-axes lathe
[03:57:09] <zeeshan> you have trouble single point threading them with carbide?
[03:57:18] <tiwake> too small for that
[03:57:32] <tiwake> well
[03:58:02] <tiwake> the tapping is not a problem really
[03:58:14] <tiwake> nor the turning... heh
[03:58:48] <tiwake> but its not worth it at the price point :P
[04:00:13] <tiwake> and the surface needs to be shiny
[04:00:40] <tiwake> looks is more important than anything else really, other than how long it takes to make each one
[04:01:13] <furrywolf> "looks is more important than anything else really" go hang out at the mall? :)
[04:01:44] <zeeshan> so the other day i saw a video
[04:02:29] <furrywolf> ok
[04:02:33] <zeeshan> a guy using a cnmg insert on a smaller lathe than mine
[04:02:35] <zeeshan> and getting good finish
[04:02:41] <zeeshan> so i know theres something up with my lathe
[04:02:47] <zeeshan> !
[04:05:55] * furrywolf hasn't done nearly enough machining to be able to help
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[04:15:48] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[04:16:53] <PetefromTn_andro> Evening folks
[04:24:47] <PetefromTn_andro> It was a pretty big day for the space program today. Awesome to watch it.
[04:26:03] <PetefromTn_andro> The Soyuz space craft returned to earth with two cosmonauts and an astronaut safe and sound landing in Kazakhstan
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[04:26:41] <PetefromTn_andro> That is pretty cool to be able to watch everything live like this.
[04:27:54] <PetefromTn_andro> Then the orbital ATK /NASA tested their SLS heavy lift rocket booster in Utah somewhere
[04:28:55] <PetefromTn_andro> It is apparently the largest and most powerful rocket booster ever built and outputs 3.6 million pounds of thrust.
[04:29:46] <PetefromTn_andro> http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9316:orbital-atk-booster-test-in-promontory-coverage&catid=1:latest
[04:30:02] <PetefromTn_andro> Pretty Damn amazing stuff.
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[04:30:24] <tiwake> I need flash to view that?
[04:30:33] <tiwake> nop, not happening
[04:30:49] <PetefromTn_andro> Dunno I watched it on my smartphone
[04:31:12] <PetefromTn_andro> I am sure it is probably on YouTube by now
[04:32:16] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn thing is over 30 feet across and is more than25 percent larger than the ones that took the space shuttle into orbit
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[04:33:28] <PetefromTn_andro> Supposedly you are looking at the engine that will be taking humans to mars at some point in the not so distant future
[04:35:02] <PetefromTn_andro> But after watching the movie last days on Mars on Netflix recently it's not gonna be me going for the ride LOL
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[04:40:26] <PetefromTn_andro> Well gn8 folks.
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[05:44:09] <georgenz> Ive got one of those cheap wireless xhc jog wheels from china. Havent managed to get it running. Has anyone here managed to get one going?
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[05:49:46] <AndChat|31961> Ive got one of those cheap wireless chinese xhc jog wheels can't get mine running... anyone here successfully managed to get theirs running?
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[06:07:42] <MarkusBec> georgenz: yes I used the sampe configs
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[06:08:28] <georgenz> How do u set it up? I thort if yr linux version was newer than 2.6.0 it was preinstalled?
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[06:59:46] <zeeshan> FINALLY fixed the lathe surface finish issue!
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[07:06:10] <archivist> and
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[07:09:09] <archivist> dont keep us in suspenders
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[07:16:33] <zeeshan> sorry went to shower
[07:16:51] <zeeshan> so remember how i was saying i was measuring .001" of deflection in the X axis?
[07:16:54] <zeeshan> er
[07:16:55] <zeeshan> Z axis.
[07:17:14] <zeeshan> so i tightened the gib and re did the cut -- viola.
[07:17:29] <zeeshan> 0.0005" deflection , crazy clean surface finish
[07:17:34] <zeeshan> like i was getting back in the manual days
[07:17:49] <archivist> erm I did mention gibs :)
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[07:17:54] <zeeshan> i have isolated the 0.0005" deflection in the compound now, i wonder when if its 0
[07:18:07] <zeeshan> when it's 0, how good the surface finish will be. cause 0.0005" made a huge difference
[07:18:20] <zeeshan> its not doing that ploughing burr nonsense anymore either
[07:18:42] <archivist> there may have been more vertical movement than that
[07:18:53] <zeeshan> probably, i was only measuring in Z axis
[07:18:57] <zeeshan> maybe it was lifting the tool?
[07:19:07] <archivist> possibly
[07:19:07] <zeeshan> or pushing it down
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[07:19:19] <archivist> well assembly rocking
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[07:19:40] <zeeshan> i set the givs so i can barely turn the axis by turning on just the ball screw
[07:19:51] <zeeshan> but turn its fairly okay using the pulley
[07:20:03] <archivist> I have to wander off for early transport job today
[07:20:17] <zeeshan> what are you transporting
[07:20:32] <archivist> windows (frames for the use off
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[07:52:50] <Deejay> moin
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[09:45:48] <Bushman> i wonder how many years will i need to study this code to actually understand what's happening in it: https://code.google.com/p/dxf2gcode/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fsource%253Fstate%253Dclosed
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[09:50:34] <XXCoder> just couple decades heh
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[09:56:12] <archivist_herron> dxf is not the best format to have to convert
[09:57:17] <XXCoder> why?
[09:57:54] <archivist_herron> I had to write a cleaning program once upon a time before a laser would runt
[09:58:16] <archivist_herron> line ends were not joined properly
[09:58:31] <XXCoder> interesting, sounds like bad conversion not bad concept
[09:58:55] <archivist_herron> nah, standard floats type error
[09:59:29] <XXCoder> wonder if should add "fuse if below X distance"
[09:59:49] <archivist_herron> laser was not happy that 1.100000001 was equal to 1.1000000011
[10:00:32] <XXCoder> my 3d model convertor does it, think it has 5 digit precision
[10:00:50] <XXCoder> if new dot is less than that then its merged into other dot
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[10:42:53] <Bushman> the DXF2GCODE is one of very few completely free options and it's very promising.
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[10:43:25] <Bushman> i have/had some issues with it but so far i have no better solution
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[10:45:07] <Bushman> i tried directly converting from inkscape to g-code but this solution didn't work for me to well
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[10:47:39] <archivist_herron> I think the cad writers are not thinking of the machining process when they code for PC screen
[10:49:03] <Bushman> that's why we need some CAD/CAM like heekscad/heekscnc
[10:49:13] <Bushman> but it's broken on linux
[10:49:31] <Bushman> (at least on my ubuntu)
[10:49:53] <Bushman> crashes a lot and GUI bugs out every single time
[10:50:52] <Bushman> right now i'm using free version of DraftSight
[10:51:47] <Bushman> it's a bit annoying when it comes to snapping but it outputs ok
[10:52:11] <Bushman> paired with DXF2GCODE i'm able to do most of the stuff i need
[10:52:24] <Bushman> only thing i need to do by hand are pockets
[10:52:25] <archivist_herron> dan heeks used to come into the #heekscad channel and support the linux version too but then he seems to have chucked some code out and stuck to windows, sad
[10:52:49] <Bushman> yea. very sad
[10:53:03] <Bushman> making free software for comercial OSes
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[12:29:52] <skunkworks> !later tjtr33 Let me know when you are on...
[12:29:52] <the_wench> will tell tjtr33 when he/she joins next
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[12:31:23] <Jymmm> !later skunkworks lol
[12:31:23] <the_wench> will tell skunkworks when he/she joins next
[12:32:38] <Jymmm> !later the_wench !later the_wench
[12:32:38] <the_wench> will tell the_wench when he/she joins next
[12:33:27] <Jymmm> !sing soft kitty
[12:34:44] <skunkworks> morning Jymmm
[12:34:59] <Jymmm> skunkworks: How ya doin man?
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[12:35:09] <skunkworks> hangin in there.
[12:35:28] <skunkworks> How about you?
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[12:36:01] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Yeah... I know that one. You should have seen me Sat to Monday morning......
[12:36:20] <skunkworks> pole dacning again? :)
[12:36:26] <skunkworks> dancing
[12:37:49] <Jymmm> Had a jury summons, responded to it and thought that was it. Get a postcard, says my request can only be approved by a judge (PITA). Says I have to report.... A WEEK AGO!!! So, now I have a failure to appear.....
[12:39:45] <Jymmm> Call the court Monday morning, luckily my group wasn't called and dismissed with no further action needed on my part. I even asked if I would have needed bail money. Said no, but I would have to report and be included with the next group. that afternoon/morning.
[12:40:25] <skunkworks> yikes!
[12:40:38] <Jymmm> Exactly
[12:41:26] <Jymmm> You gotta love it... You FORCE people to come in to lay judgement upon others, or goto jail.
[12:44:03] <_methods> do you civic duty you bum
[12:44:10] <_methods> s/you/your
[12:44:11] <_methods> lol
[12:44:40] <Jymmm> Fine, innocent. let me the fuc outta this courthouse
[12:44:46] <_methods> heheh
[12:45:29] <Jymmm> I really don't believe in the Judicial system.
[12:46:56] <gonzo_> being tried by 12 of your peers. That is 12 people who have nothing better to do than sit on a jury
[12:47:23] <gonzo_> the rest of us manage to squirm out of it
[12:47:42] <Jymmm> gonzo_: More like being FORCED to sit there or not smart enough to get out of it, either way, you're fucked =) Have a nice day
[12:48:30] <gonzo_> I've managed to get ouyt of it once. But worst is being a witness. That is more of a pain
[12:48:46] <Rab> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
[12:49:06] <gonzo_> actually, worse is probably beinbg the defendent. Though only just!
[12:54:10] <Jymmm> Worse is the cops, inhuman bastards.
[12:54:37] <_methods> a jury of people not smart enough to get out of jury duty lol
[12:55:43] <Jymmm> I mean, I get that they have a need for safety, but damn if they don't need to get a different job because they've been doing it too long and are just jaded.
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[13:01:35] <Jymmm> Had some drunk kid in his 20's knock on the door at 1:30am this morning. Says he got beat up, I ask if he wants me to call the cops, Says yes. I'm talking to dispatch, their more concerned with my info than his, Can't give an ETA of 5 or 40 minutes. The kid is acting pretty mellow. Cops show up and start speaking at him instead of to him, then even start speaking at me as well. Not listening to anything either one of us is saying. The kid i
[13:01:35] <Jymmm> s getting frustrated, and I'm just watching all three of them putting on gloves.
[13:01:52] <Jymmm> pretty sad overall.
[13:04:38] <cradek> did they beat him up, or just find something to arrest him for?
[13:05:09] <SpeedEvil> cradek: you're saying that like it's either-or.
[13:05:44] <Jymmm> cradek: Sadly, he left in handcuffs.
[13:08:22] <cradek> that is sad. probably the last thing he needs. before calling cops you have to think HARD about whether they're likely to make the situation better or worse.
[13:08:43] <cradek> and of course you can't predict that very accurately
[13:09:43] <cradek> SpeedEvil: it's true, they never beat someone and then let him go, because getting beat up is resisting arrest
[13:10:58] <Jymmm> Yeah, I know. I knew he was on something, but wasn't sure if it was drugs or drunk. He later on said to me he's "off his meds", so not really much I could do there. I actually did ask if he wanted me to call them, hhhhhe said yes, I just didn't expect them to act that way.
[13:11:49] <SpeedEvil> it's deeply depressing when workers of all sorts have a script they can't deviate from
[13:13:14] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: The thing is, they treated ME no different than they treated him.
[13:13:40] <Jymmm> Very mechanical, no humanistic trait at all.
[13:14:14] <Jymmm> THAT scares me
[13:14:49] <Rab> In several places, it's automatic to arrest everybody involved in a domestic disturbance. So if you're an abused wife (or husband), your abuser can even cause you to have charges.
[13:15:38] <Rab> Happened to somebody I know...her waste of a boyfriend acted up, she called cops, now she has charges which may interfere with her career.
[13:15:52] <Jymmm> What the fuck kind of shit is that?! That is victim shaming at minimum.
[13:15:57] <Rab> Is it better not to call? Dunno.
[13:18:04] <Jymmm> I've always wondered if it's possible to have a 3rd party law enforcment other than the established locel govertnemnt entity one.
[13:18:12] <Jymmm> ^agency
[13:18:32] <Jymmm> with full effect and enforce of law.
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[13:19:32] <Rab> Careful what you wish for (think rent-a-cops).
[13:19:40] <Jymmm> Why should the city/county have a monopoly on LEO's
[13:19:54] <Jymmm> Rab: No, I mean fully sworn officers.
[13:20:43] <Rab> The only tyrant worse than a cop is somebody who couldn't make it to "real" cop.
[13:21:00] <Jymmm> heh, true.
[13:21:57] <archivist> car park attendant material
[13:23:28] <Jymmm> Rab: Interesting... " in response to repeated attempts to prosecute a statutory offence, this can have the de facto effect of invalidating the statute. A pattern of jury nullification may indicate public opposition to an unwanted legislative enactment."
[13:24:51] <Rab> Jymmm, if you ever want to get kicked off a jury, start spouting off about jury nullification. Nobody will like that one bit. But it is US law.
[13:25:26] <malcom2073> I've heard carrying a bible with you is a good way to getout of jury duty
[13:25:36] <malcom2073> here in PA though, you have to sit there for the whole week even if you don't get picked
[13:25:58] <Jymmm> Rab: So, if I don't like a particular law, I should just hang out at the courthouse handing out Nullification fliers for certain cases
[13:26:05] <_methods> http://imgur.com/gallery/fxEmPvG
[13:27:16] <Rab> Jymmm, I believe there has been some activism for jury nullification of drug laws. But I don't think anything has come from it.
[13:28:13] <Jymmm> Rab: Ah. I just like the 'de facto' force and effect of invalidating a statute.
[13:29:21] <SpeedEvil> It's very, very much not defacto nullified unless all juries feel that way.
[13:29:35] <SpeedEvil> And practically - no way.
[13:29:48] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Never say never =)
[13:30:39] <SpeedEvil> I have an extremely hard time believing there is any single statutory issue that even 99% of juries could get behind even if they understood juriy nullification
[13:31:03] <SpeedEvil> 50% even
[13:31:24] <Rab> Yeah, I think drug laws in certain locales might come closest, but I don't see that happening.
[13:31:42] <Jymmm> Court dockets are public record. If a organization hit every courthouse, pandering their warez with flyers on cars, I bet you could have a severe impact.
[13:32:05] <SpeedEvil> Especially with a defendant of different earnings/ethnicity/... from the jury
[13:32:37] <Jymmm> Anything can be spun
[13:32:51] <Jymmm> Essencially Social Engineering.
[13:33:25] <Loetmichel> *meh* just looked out: great sunny weather... and my bike has a license plate from last year... shit :-( anyone knows where to get a german 50cc license plate online? the insurance companys that sell them have no "easy to get to" shops around here :-(
[13:33:41] <_methods> jury nullification hasn’t always been used to “do good.” Historically, racist southern juries have nullified cases involving hate crimes and overly optimistic juries have nullified instances of police brutality
[13:34:08] <Jymmm> _methods: I believe it.
[13:34:15] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: No 3D printer?
[13:34:33] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: not a good idea
[13:34:39] <Loetmichel> thats insurance fraud ;-)
[13:34:47] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I never said it was a good idea =)
[13:35:06] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: you just ask for a plate, not if it's legit =)
[13:35:22] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Cant you courier one?
[13:35:49] <archivist> it will be raining by then
[13:36:07] <Jymmm> heh
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[13:47:19] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-bYsEnnIUo Daily Affirmation to make you feel better
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[14:27:52] <the_wench> tjtr33: skunkworks said Let me know when you are on...
[14:29:53] <ssi> morn
[14:30:55] <CaptHindsight> http://openlunchbox.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48.0;attach=16 i.MX6 SBC with Mesa IO bloack dia
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[14:33:13] <ssi> unfortunately that didn't render, it just downloaded :P
[14:33:31] <CaptHindsight> I;ll change it to a pdf
[14:34:14] <CaptHindsight> http://openlunchbox.com/smf/index.php?topic=48.msg105#msg105
[14:34:39] <ssi> looks about the same as what you had up last night
[14:35:50] <CaptHindsight> so-dimm
[14:35:57] <CaptHindsight> anything missing?
[14:36:24] <CaptHindsight> people can decide 2G - 8GB DDR3
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[14:38:16] <tjtr33> renders fine in inkscape
[14:43:15] <furrywolf> somehow you're sending out broken mime types methinks.
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[14:43:41] <CaptHindsight> the fun of Linux
[14:43:45] <archivist> its the spaces in the links
[14:44:03] <furrywolf> yeah, it's just a application/octet-stream, so browers only try saving, not displaying.
[14:44:43] <CaptHindsight> for the svg?
[14:45:44] <CaptHindsight> I'll stick to pdf's from now on, then people never compain
[14:46:16] <furrywolf> I didn't try the svg, just the pdf. it sent it with a crap mime type, so I had to save it then open it...
[14:46:22] <archivist> is this the link you intended http://openlunchbox.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48.0;attach=16
[14:46:33] <Rab> You are not allowed to access this section
[14:46:41] <CaptHindsight> http://openlunchbox.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48.0;attach=17
[14:47:16] <CaptHindsight> or get it from the topic http://openlunchbox.com/smf/index.php?topic=48.0
[14:47:45] * Loetmichel got himself a grilled chicken, some french fries AND a new license/insurance plate for the 50cc ;-) nice, so i can commute to the company tomorrow in "open air" ;-)
[14:47:46] <CaptHindsight> some of the links above are already gone since I changed the file attached
[14:49:45] <Rab> If somebody wants to edit the diagram, they can still import the PDF into Inkscape.
[14:50:12] <CaptHindsight> or just ask :)
[14:51:26] <CaptHindsight> I was thinking it cold be a stand alone board or be a ~10" tablet with touch display
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[14:52:49] <CaptHindsight> but multitouch in Debian only sort of works
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[15:00:44] <jthornton> dang it is hard to walk through the kitchen with that big bag of fresh jerky on the counter...
[15:00:57] <ssi> haha
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[15:02:11] <Rab> (eat it)
[15:02:14] <Rab> (eat it all)
[15:02:19] <Rab> (do it now)
[15:03:02] <CaptHindsight> ever try to eat more than 8 oz of jerkey in an afternoon?
[15:03:31] <jthornton> there is about 3 lbs of jerky in the bag... so tempting
[15:04:34] <jdh> how much did it weigj before?
[15:06:13] <jthornton> I think about 8 lbs
[15:06:52] <jthornton> I don't make it bleached bone dry, I like to leave a bit of moisture in the jerky
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[15:59:08] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprint.com/50265/3d-printed-toyota-transmission/ (working polymer model)
[16:02:08] <TekniQue> cool
[16:02:47] <archivist> did I see synchromesh
[16:07:10] <zeeshan> haha thats cool
[16:09:50] <CaptHindsight> print the whole drivetrain next
[16:10:22] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprint.com/39614/toyota-4-cylinder-engine-22re/
[16:10:30] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/k25AaHs.png
[16:10:33] <zeeshan> torque converter let go
[16:10:42] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmK_LWOqRp8
[16:10:50] <archivist> more betterer a working Bentley engine http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_model_engineer_Ascot/p1010142.jpg
[16:10:54] <malcom2073> Ouch, zeeshan: been there
[16:11:11] <zeeshan> that guy has a lot of electrical equipment for being an electrical engineer
[16:11:13] <zeeshan> i mean mech eng
[16:11:33] <zeeshan> my desk has transmission parts, structures
[16:11:38] <zeeshan> ! :P
[16:11:46] <zeeshan> malcom2073: hehe
[16:12:14] <CaptHindsight> well there's really not that much to learn to be a mech eng. After ~6 months you get bored and move on to elelctrical :)
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[16:13:33] <zeeshan> thats why all the ee's still cant build a 3d printer worth a crap? :P
[16:13:38] <zeeshan> forgot all the basic mechanics equations
[16:13:57] <zeeshan> and still run over to ME's for heat transfer help
[16:14:00] <zeeshan> :-)
[16:14:30] <malcom2073> zeeshan: You're assuming the latter part of EE (engineer) is actualy involved in any 3d printers you see :P
[16:14:43] * zeeshan hangs out in reprap
[16:14:48] * malcom2073 does too
[16:14:49] * zeeshan silently sees
[16:14:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150312-dim3printings-3dformer-3d-printing-pen-is-coming-to-kickstarter.html
[16:14:53] <archivist> hey heat transfer is no1 for getting audio amps reliable
[16:14:59] <CaptHindsight> whats wrong with this one?
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[16:15:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/images2014/dim3printings-3dformer-3d-printing-pen-is-coming-to-kickstarter-3.png looks fine to me :)
[16:15:48] <archivist> everything is wrong
[16:15:52] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Good enough for reprap, ship it!
[16:16:09] <zeeshan> so i placed my first order from aliexpress
[16:16:24] <malcom2073> I've been scared to place any orders on aliexpress
[16:16:32] <zeeshan> haha
[16:16:40] <zeeshan> i ordered a bunch of tool holders for the lathe
[16:16:48] <zeeshan> its hard to _f_ those up
[16:16:52] <malcom2073> Ah well that's hard enough to screw up
[16:17:08] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: they weren't on ebay?
[16:17:17] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: not from the same place
[16:17:20] <zeeshan> would have to order from diff places
[16:18:16] <Rab> I ordered from AliExpress with a company credit card and the number was stolen a few weeks later. Might've been from the Home Depot breach though.
[16:18:39] <zeeshan> eek
[16:18:49] <zeeshan> dont tell me that now! :P
[16:18:54] <Rab> Anyway, I would see if your CC does temporary numbers. Or use a prepaid card.
[16:19:11] <zeeshan> did you get your items?
[16:19:24] <Rab> I did, and they worked, although not particularly good quality.
[16:19:30] <zeeshan> what was it?
[16:19:51] <Rab> LCD graphical displays in an old form factor that wasn't available anywhere else.
[16:20:25] <Rab> We had control boxes with failing displays.
[16:21:09] <Rab> I asked my manager point blank for approval to use the CC before purchase, told him it was a shady vendor.
[16:21:37] <zeeshan> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/MGEHR1616-3-16-16-100MM-External-Grooving-Turning-Lathe-Bar-Tool-Holder-For-Lathe-Machine-CNC/1786074736.html ; http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shopping-SMBB-1626-Part-Off-Block-Lathe-cutting-Tool-Stand-Holder-16mm-High-Blade-26mm/1978852748.html ; http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shiping-SPB-26-3-Indexable-Part-Off-Blade-26mm-High-Suit-For-SMBB-1626-2026/
[16:21:59] <zeeshan> so cheap!
[16:22:16] <archivist> and so...
[16:22:18] <zeeshan> i bought some similar ones for vnmg inserts and boring bars
[16:22:22] <zeeshan> and they were excellent quality
[16:22:30] <zeeshan> but not from aliexpress
[16:22:34] <zeeshan> china through ebay
[16:22:45] <zeeshan> they are super quality
[16:23:06] <zeeshan> im using mitsu inserts with them though
[16:23:19] <Rab> I think I'd rather buy the china stuff through Shars and/or eBay.
[16:23:21] <zeeshan> the chinese inserts dont look like they have a sharp cutting edge
[16:23:30] <Jymmm> zeeshan: You didn't hear? The owner of aliexpresses is being investigated for embesselment
[16:23:35] <zeeshan> yea, but shars is stupid expensive
[16:24:23] <Rab> zeeshan, if they're expensive it's because they're eating QC/returns. I think Shars is pretty cheap, actually.
[16:24:42] <zeeshan> shars has no qc
[16:24:48] <zeeshan> they use the cheapest possible crap from china
[16:24:55] <zeeshan> for a lot of their stuff
[16:25:03] <zeeshan> like there's phase 2 china
[16:25:10] <zeeshan> and mainland china :P
[16:25:32] <zeeshan> theyre expensive cause they want 42$ to ship a tool holder like that to canada
[16:26:43] <Rab> frozen wasteland tax
[16:26:48] <zeeshan> :)
[16:27:08] <zeeshan> ive ordered 3 things from shars
[16:27:12] <zeeshan> indexable boring bars -- they were good
[16:27:26] <zeeshan> bxa tool holders -- they were crap
[16:27:40] <zeeshan> i forgot what the 3rd item was
[16:27:44] <zeeshan> but it was not good :P
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[16:28:44] <zeeshan> i think for me, if it doesnt require any precision, go to china :p
[16:30:03] <zeeshan> i take that back
[16:30:04] <zeeshan> http://www.accusizetools.com/1601-0015-cat40-er32-2-76-cat40-v-flange-collet-chucks/
[16:30:13] <zeeshan> these are made in taiwan
[16:30:20] <zeeshan> i dont get more than 0.0002 runout on this
[16:31:44] <zeeshan> does anyone know if korloy inserts are made in china?
[16:32:01] <zeeshan> almost all the chinese sellers on aliexpress are selling em
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[16:33:23] <Rab> Looks like they're korean with global distribution, not sure where manufacturing happens.
[16:33:54] <zeeshan> a few of them will be selling mitsubishi inserts
[16:34:04] <zeeshan> if theyre all coming from china, it makes more sense to get it right from the source :P
[16:34:08] <Rab> On 16th Aug. 2012, Korloy was selected as a '40 Korean Hidden Champions' supervised by the Ministry of Knowledge Economy and supported by the export-import bank of Korea. A hidden champion means relatively small but highly successful companies that are concealed behind a curtain of inconspicuousness, invisibility, and sometimes secrecy.
[16:34:16] <Rab> wat
[16:34:45] <zeeshan> haha
[16:35:10] <Rab> http://www.korloy.com/newkorloy/eng/notice/notice_view2.html?idx=60&stat=m
[16:35:14] <Rab> Looks legit to me.
[16:35:51] <zeeshan> http://www.korloy.com/newkorloy/eng/company/company07.html
[16:36:23] <zeeshan> dunno if that means anything :p
[16:36:34] <zeeshan> i have their vnmg inserts
[16:36:58] <zeeshan> and they cut really nice after i fixed the lathe last night
[16:37:05] <Rab> Those are sales offices. Looks like their factories are actually in Korea: http://www.korloy.com/newkorloy/eng/company/company07_02.html
[16:37:05] <_methods> it means they're coming to hide you behind a veil of secrecy now
[16:37:06] <zeeshan> the chip breaker only needs 3-4ipm to start working
[16:37:22] <_methods> but only sometimes
[16:37:35] <zeeshan> nice rab so made in korea
[16:38:30] <Rab> I remember hearing before that cartoon mascots are a big deal for asian corporations.
[16:38:35] <zeeshan> https://www.traverscanada.com/product.asp?RequestData=CA_Search&eaprodid=265304-22-286-620
[16:38:38] <zeeshan> those style
[16:39:12] <Rab> With big name companies having some bizarre mascots that westerners don't usually see.
[16:39:41] <zeeshan> thats interesting
[16:39:42] <zeeshan> haha
[16:39:45] <zeeshan> i like the characters
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[16:43:53] <ssi> HI
[16:44:59] <zeeshan> hi
[16:46:56] <ssi> wat is up
[16:47:26] <zeeshan> didnt get enough sleep :P
[16:47:36] <zeeshan> what are you working on these days
[16:47:46] <ssi> work mostly
[16:47:49] <ssi> and the pitts
[16:47:59] <ssi> I still haven't finished the plasma table
[16:48:05] <ssi> it's running and will home
[16:48:19] <ssi> but I need to hook up water tank, run power for the plasma cutter, and tweak the configs
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[16:56:36] <zeeshan> nice
[16:56:45] <zeeshan> how thick metal can you cut with it?
[16:56:47] <zeeshan> http://www.cnc-arena.com/en/forum/matts-grizzly-g0602-cnc-conversion--174872-9.html
[16:56:53] <zeeshan> guys, what do you think of this enclosure type?
[17:01:34] <Cromaglious> well it keeps carp from flying around the shop and it slide out of the way
[17:04:25] <ssi> zeeshan: it'll pierce 3/8" easily
[17:04:31] <ssi> and edge cut 1/2"
[17:04:40] <_methods> http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2015/03/farewell-to-google-code.html
[17:04:43] <ssi> I think it'll pierce 1/2" but it's hard on the consumables
[17:04:49] <_methods> another one goes to teh the google graveyard
[17:05:07] <ssi> good
[17:05:09] <ssi> it was inferior :P
[17:05:22] <_methods> i'm still bitter about google reader
[17:06:27] <archivist> I love how people grumble when free is disappears
[17:06:34] <ssi> :)
[17:06:59] <archivist> try funding free!
[17:07:19] <_methods> google has made a career of it
[17:07:51] <_methods> i use github so no sweat off my back
[17:07:56] <Rab> I love how people are so enthusiastic about creating a dependancy on free.
[17:08:24] <CaptHindsight> they are free to do so
[17:08:37] <_methods> i see what you did there
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[17:11:19] <CaptHindsight> did Google start that around the same time that SourceForge started getting really slow?
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[17:19:49] <zeeshan> piercing is usually always hard on the torch noze
[17:19:59] <zeeshan> cause it spits hot metal right to it :P and erodes it away
[17:20:38] <ssi> yup
[17:20:39] <zeeshan> ssi what kind of plasma cutter is on it?
[17:20:42] <zeeshan> for the power supply
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[17:21:38] <zeeshan> a crap late for meeting
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[17:28:08] <ssi> zeeshan: hypertherm pm45
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[17:32:01] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: ever notice a common SOC used in aftermarket ECU's?
[17:33:17] <jdh> arduino driven rx7
[17:33:59] <malcom2073> The Freescale s12x is nice for that, but the xgate coprocessor requires either an expensive license to compile C, or you write in asm
[17:34:05] <malcom2073> I use that in my car
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[17:34:38] <malcom2073> I'm playing with a LPC dual core MCU, as well as a SmartFusion ARM+FPGA combo for that as well
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[17:35:54] <CaptHindsight> the i.MX6 + Spartan6 is overkill but it could have it's own display
[17:36:05] <malcom2073> You don't want the ECU driving a display though
[17:36:23] <malcom2073> Let me rephrase, you don't need the ECU driving a display :P
[17:36:37] <CaptHindsight> heh, yeah
[17:36:46] <CaptHindsight> blinkenlights
[17:37:01] <malcom2073> Also, the i.MX6 runs linux doesn't it? You can't much do ECU level realtime on anything except bare hardware
[17:37:45] <CaptHindsight> yeah, thats what the Spartan6 is for
[17:37:47] <XXCoder> malcom2073: theres probably c to asm convertor
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[17:38:12] <CaptHindsight> I've never looked inside the aftermarket ECU's
[17:38:15] <XXCoder> so you can write in c then convert. avoid expensive c complier
[17:38:45] <CaptHindsight> but I wish the factory ones were reversed
[17:38:59] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: The spartain can't do the calculations
[17:39:31] <malcom2073> It can do the spark timing, which reduces the jitter requirements substantially, but I'm not sure a full linux stack can provide the kind ofgaruntee you need
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[17:40:10] <CaptHindsight> also depends on weather it's controlling a V12 or diesel 4cyl
[17:40:14] <malcom2073> Take Linuxcnc, if your maching bogs for a second (See: BBB+PRU, and Axis momentarly freezing), worst case you crash your machine as I have. in a car, you blow up the engine or worse.
[17:40:17] <XXCoder> yup http://assembly.ynh.io/ lol
[17:40:40] <malcom2073> XXCoder: That's assuming there's a GCC written for the Xgate :)
[17:40:55] <malcom2073> A lot of work was done to make an asm compiler for the xgate, they're nowhere near a c compiler yet
[17:41:18] <XXCoder> so it uses different asm
[17:41:19] <CaptHindsight> heh or it's as bad as the factory ECU
[17:42:23] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: we're talking aftermarket :P
[17:43:14] <malcom2073> I wish I could do board design, I've got so many ideas, but I'm confined to breadboards and the like heh
[17:43:37] <XXCoder> cnc engraver
[17:43:49] <CaptHindsight> and I try to stick with hardware, I really don't like to code at all
[17:43:53] <XXCoder> or use that laser printer trick to etch copper boards
[17:44:28] <malcom2073> XXCoder: The problem is the actual board design. Getting them made is super cheap, and even I can solder SMD... but designing a board to accept an ARM and/or a FPGA? Nuts
[17:44:57] <XXCoder> many solder points I guess
[17:45:09] <XXCoder> I heard of reflow but dunno about that
[17:46:37] <malcom2073> QFP's are possible to hand solder, but you start getting into ballgrid chips and the soldering is out the window regardless of how easy it is to design with
[17:46:49] <Rab> XXCoder, hahaha @ HN thread where that site is revealed to be vulnerable to all kinds of mischief: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4560410
[17:47:15] <Rab> Somebody even posts the guy's root password hash.
[17:47:46] <pcw_home> BGAs are easier than QFPs in lots of ways
[17:48:01] <XXCoder> #define x "/etc/passwd" #include x
[17:48:24] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmmgSheeUrM first start, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0RboOKCY_k after more harness cleanup
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[17:48:49] <pcw_home> we regularly assemble prototype BGA cards with a Grainger hot air gun
[17:49:34] <XXCoder> malcom2073: wonder if I could run programs
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[17:49:58] <XXCoder> #define x "`ls /`" #include x
[17:51:02] <XXCoder> nah it dont work. good, that would be insane flaw
[17:51:28] <Rab> pcw_home, I find these a lot more controllable for electronics work than the cheap hot air guns: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/10008/MA1006-ND/37141
[17:51:58] <Rab> Much lower air velocity so it doesn't blow parts around.
[17:52:46] <pcw_home> Yeah we have a couple different types but for BGAs we heat from the back so high velocity is fine
[17:53:09] <Rab> ahh
[17:54:12] <pcw_home> take a little practice but BGAs are self aligning if constrained within ~1/3 pitch
[17:54:13] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Nice
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[17:58:51] <ssi> you can get a cheap IR reflow oven for like $225
[17:58:57] <ssi> I need to get another one
[17:59:00] <ssi> mine got thrown in a dumpster :(
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[17:59:10] <CaptHindsight> frys has hot air soldering stations for <$200
[17:59:35] <ssi> I soldered hundreds of QFNs with an Aoyue hot air station
[17:59:43] <ssi> and reworked a lot of them too
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[18:02:43] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: https://github.com/noisymime/speeduino :)
[18:05:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.soldertools.net/ lots of BGA rework tricks and tools
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[18:14:39] <CaptHindsight> http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/sales_and_marketing/promotional_material/brochure/BRSTM32ODE.pdf anyone try their dev software?
[18:22:42] <CaptHindsight> duino compatible boards with STM32
[18:27:15] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dytn2LypY_c
[18:27:17] <XXCoder> interesting
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[18:28:31] <CaptHindsight> so the mouse goes to get a drink of 7up and falls in, very clever
[18:28:44] <XXCoder> lol not how that works
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[18:50:24] <LeelooMinai> You can reflow boards with $20 toaster oven if you can monitor temperature inside (with a cheap DMM with a thermoucouple probe for example,) and sit by it. Or you can buy/create a controller for this - the whole setup can be under $50 if you really want it cheap and still be reasonable.
[18:51:18] <ssi> I've been down that road
[18:51:31] <ssi> and you know what? $225 for a proper reflow oven is money well spent
[18:52:10] <SpeedEvil> Oooh. Talking of reflowing - now I want cheese toasties.
[18:52:50] <LeelooMinai> Not sure about it - if you have skills to make nice controller and insulate the oven so it can reach temperaturs you need in reasonable time, it's all you need really.
[18:53:20] <LeelooMinai> But if you have money and no time to play with it, ok, I guess - though I suspect that those $225 oven sets are nothing special
[18:53:56] <LeelooMinai> I once saw a review of one of those and did not really see something substantially better then home setup
[18:53:57] <ssi> cheap toaster ovens don't heat as quickly and evenly
[18:54:12] <ssi> and the price of the cheap oven is less than the value of my time
[18:54:19] <LeelooMinai> Yes, that's why insulating may be a good idea - I put a lot of fiberglass insulation into mine
[18:54:43] <LeelooMinai> Just took some from walls in the basement:)
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[18:55:43] <LeelooMinai> And the dudes who sell those kits will cut corners too - sometimes they even use normal household ovens
[18:56:08] <ssi> "those kits"?
[18:56:28] <ssi> I'm talking about real honest to god cheap bullshit chinese reflow ovens
[18:56:28] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/T962-REFLOW-OVEN-180X235MM-AREA-VISUAL-OPERATION-SMD-BAG-SOLDERING-ACTIVE-DEMAND-/111133118330?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e00ccf7a
[18:56:29] <LeelooMinai> Yes, kits that inculde oven + controller. Not every steup sold is one unit.
[18:57:35] <LeelooMinai> Yes, this is in one enclosure, but that does not mean it's great. I saw review of something like this and the guy (I think it was the Dangerous Prototype dude(?) was not that impressed with it
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[18:57:55] <ssi> for everyone who isn't LeelooMinai and has a couple nickels to rub together
[18:58:02] <ssi> I owned one of those and it's perfectly adequate for the money
[18:58:09] <ssi> and requires exactly zero fucking around with homebuilt nonsense
[18:58:17] <LeelooMinai> Well, mine is $50 total and great too:)
[18:58:32] <Cromaglious> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4l_WzyuNMg&t=63 racoon with it's hands full running
[18:58:47] <LeelooMinai> lol, I saw that video
[18:58:55] <LeelooMinai> Pretty funny creature
[18:58:57] <Cromaglious> you can't tell me racoons aren't bipeds
[18:59:15] <LeelooMinai> They are pretty smart
[18:59:49] <LeelooMinai> and they look like small bandits - even have those "bandanas" on the face
[19:00:17] <SpeedEvil> The cats look like they would be uninterested even if it diddn't bother with theft
[19:01:11] <LeelooMinai> Cats are good at saving energy - if something does not concern them they will just chill and observe:)
[19:01:58] <malcom2073> I wish I had two nickles to rub together
[19:02:21] <Cromaglious> looking at "brushless dc spindle" on ebay and there is one for 128.69 w/ free shipping... just wondering if I should pull the trigger on that and mod the mount when it gets here... since I think it's like 55mm and the end caps are bigger yet
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[19:03:03] <Rab> Cromaglious, URL?
[19:03:10] <LeelooMinai> ssi: If something works well as homebuilt and you don't mind doing it yourself, it's not a nonsense - it's a hobby:)
[19:04:07] <LeelooMinai> Cromaglious: I think those cheap DC spindles usually do not have very high RPM
[19:04:27] <_methods> man i just scored a singer 211w155 for $90
[19:04:46] <LeelooMinai> And may have substantial runouts - not that they need to have it, but those cheap ones seem to.
[19:05:00] <Cromaglious> wonder if I could skim off 1.5mm off the outside and even more on the caps
[19:05:01] <Cromaglious> http://www.ebay.com/itm/600W-CNC-Brushless-DC-Motor-Driver-400W-Spindle-Motor-For-Engraving-Machine-/321618044414?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae1ede5fe
[19:05:04] <_methods> and a singer 291u3 for $180
[19:06:06] <cradek> c!
[19:06:08] <cradek> oops
[19:06:45] <Cromaglious> I have a juki 5550 and a Juki MO-2516 5 thread over lock
[19:06:59] <_methods> nice
[19:07:05] <_methods> man i'm gonna sell one
[19:07:18] <_methods> i'll basically use that for a free machine
[19:07:29] <_methods> i should be able to sell either for $400 easy
[19:07:32] <LeelooMinai> What are you guys making clothes? :)
[19:07:39] <ssi> I have a singer 591
[19:07:44] <ssi> I wish it was a walking foot machine
[19:07:56] <_methods> i think both of the ones i got are walking foot
[19:07:59] <_methods> lockstitch
[19:08:02] <Cromaglious> i'm thinkingg about cnc'n the 5550 to do embroidery
[19:08:13] <_methods> ahh that would be cool
[19:08:13] <ssi> my machine did fine for most of the stuff I was doing
[19:08:19] <ssi> but with thick buildups it got hairy
[19:08:20] <jdh> make me new boat cushions
[19:08:20] <_methods> now you got me thinking i might keep both lol
[19:08:27] <ssi> four layers of vinyl with two layers of 1/2" scrim foam
[19:08:56] <_methods> man if you're patient and watchful you can score
[19:09:15] <Cromaglious> Mine isn't a walking foot... But I do have a 23 needle plate, feeddogs and needles for doing leather or really heavy sewing
[19:09:18] <_methods> i've been waiting for the right deal for a while now
[19:09:37] <ssi> my machine does leather very well
[19:09:43] <ssi> just doesn't feed thick buildups well
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[19:10:09] <_methods> couldnot pass those up
[19:10:17] <Cromaglious> wife hates it when I set thattttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt up since she can't use it with a 14 needle until I convert it back and she has to use one of the really slow domestic machines
[19:10:19] <_methods> the consew 226 went for like $300
[19:10:38] <_methods> i should have got that too
[19:10:46] <Cromaglious> I have a Consew220 rusting away in the backyard...
[19:10:54] <_methods> oh yeah?
[19:10:56] <_methods> they bad?
[19:11:03] <_methods> i thought they were good machines?
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[19:11:19] <Cromaglious> probably is now... tension assembly probably have to be replaced again.
[19:11:27] <Cromaglious> no reverse
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[19:11:52] <Cromaglious> it is a great machine... heavy as all getout. but no reverse
[19:11:59] <_methods> ahh
[19:12:13] <_methods> i need to get manuals for mine and see what i've gotten myself into lol
[19:12:19] <ssi> Cromaglious: is it the kind that has a stitch length lever on the front?
[19:12:31] <ssi> cause those machines the length lever will go through zero to reverse
[19:12:33] <ssi> and that's how you back tack
[19:12:46] <Cromaglious> no stich length is push the button on top then turn the hand wheel
[19:12:50] <ssi> ah ok
[19:13:17] <ssi> I was thinking like this style
[19:13:18] <ssi> http://www.consew.com/ProductImages/112347/lg_73aac6_CP206R.jpg
[19:13:24] <Cromaglious> the Juki has reverse
[19:13:43] <Cromaglious> way to new
[19:13:43] <ssi> my machine is like this
[19:13:44] <ssi> http://www.industrialsewmachine.com/images/SingerN/591dutt.jpg
[19:13:45] <_methods> yeah i was looking at a couple juki's last month but they went for too much
[19:13:54] <ssi> self-oiled, knee lift, stout
[19:14:00] <_methods> nice
[19:14:18] <Cromaglious> you have the DRO?
[19:14:32] <ssi> lol no
[19:14:41] <_methods> http://www.national2000.ca/images/A8215.JPG
[19:14:44] <Cromaglious> I really want needle up or neeedle down stop
[19:14:47] <_methods> thats one of the ones i got
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[19:15:05] <ssi> _methods: nice
[19:15:12] <_methods> yeah man i'm happy
[19:15:20] <Cromaglious> I believe that's actually a consew
[19:15:27] <Cromaglious> badged as singer
[19:15:46] <_methods> ah really?
[19:15:48] <Cromaglious> My mum has a brother commercial badged as singer
[19:15:48] <_methods> is that bead
[19:16:10] <Cromaglious> no consew are great machines, mine just doesnt have reverse
[19:16:31] <_methods> http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mEUb3ry4I1LwpPIk388sUFw.jpg
[19:16:35] <_methods> that's the other one i got
[19:16:41] <_methods> bad pic
[19:17:07] <_methods> http://www.floridasewingmachines.com/wp-content/uploads/imported/SINGER-111W155-Single-Needle-High-Speed-Walking-Foot-Industrial-Sewing-Machine-111343061669-600x600.jpg
[19:17:15] <_methods> nm
[19:17:20] <_methods> that's not it that's 111
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[19:23:56] <Cromaglious> http://itslinux.org/cnc/sew.html
[19:24:11] <Cromaglious> my machines
[19:24:32] <ssi> you need to clean up as bad as I do :P
[19:25:04] <SpeedEvil> Are there any modern sewing machines that are 'proper' CNC - not purely cam-driven?
[19:25:26] <ssi> embroidery machines
[19:26:00] <furrywolf> and I was worried my workbench was a mess.
[19:26:07] <CaptHindsight> is the a Linux cnc embroidery machine?
[19:26:24] <CaptHindsight> or even -Linux cnc version?
[19:27:35] <Cromaglious> haven't used the mo-2516 in quite a while so it became a clutter zone
[19:28:28] <CaptHindsight> can fiber and binder replace embroidery?
[19:28:51] <CaptHindsight> do people really want the stitched look?
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[19:29:06] <SpeedEvil> it's very, very hard to get fiber to stick well to cloth
[19:29:14] <furrywolf> yes. and flexibility, strength,...
[19:29:14] <Cromaglious> yep or silk screen
[19:29:16] <SpeedEvil> such that it will live as long as the cloth
[19:29:34] <CaptHindsight> hard for whom?
[19:29:55] <SpeedEvil> I mean hard in general - or at leat I've never seen it as a consumer
[19:29:55] <Cromaglious> funny thing is the strongest fabric there is, is a felt
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[19:30:34] <furrywolf> I have kevlar gloves, does that count as a fabric?
[19:30:48] <CaptHindsight> thats what I was mentioning. fiber + binder for felt like non=woven
[19:30:49] <Cromaglious> I actually need to pull the mo-2516 out and take it into the shop for a tune up
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[19:32:39] <furrywolf> I've fixed a couple sewing machines for people, but have little skill in operating one.
[19:33:10] <furrywolf> I have an old White Jeans Machine in storage somewhere... the basic one with just zigzag, and a hole where the fancy one has cams. heh.
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[19:33:19] <Cromaglious> I can usually fix my machines I tried on the mo-2516, but it's still cutting threads
[19:33:31] <Cromaglious> not as bad as it was...
[19:33:51] <Cromaglious> I have about 8 sewing machines
[19:34:11] <_methods> damn
[19:34:16] <_methods> that's a lot of sewing
[19:34:36] <furrywolf> if I ever decide to get a fursuit, I'll let you make it. :P
[19:35:39] <Cromaglious> I don;'t wanna spend $100 on the spindle and drive
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[19:42:46] <Rab> Cromaglious, http://reboots.g-cipher.net/spindle/
[19:42:58] <Rab> Spindle itself cost about $20, you could use any motor.
[19:47:58] <Cromaglious> woo I was thinking about doing that for my router. Guess I could make a 52mm to 31.75mm adapter/ motor mount
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[19:51:07] <_methods> Rab: are you using that spindle now?
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[19:51:27] <Rab> _methods, I'm testing it now. But I haven't put much wear on it.
[19:51:34] <_methods> k
[19:51:43] <_methods> was wondering how those bearings will work
[19:51:49] <Rab> Me too!
[19:52:01] <_methods> any reason you didn't go with AC bearings?
[19:52:23] <Rab> Cheapness! I had 70 of those "ABEC-7" bearings on hand.
[19:52:30] <_methods> hehe
[19:52:33] <_methods> cool
[19:52:57] <Rab> I'm planning to make a bigger spindle with a 10mm shaft, looking at AC bearings for that.
[19:54:08] <Rab> It's not obvious from the pics, but the ends are preloaded against each other from the pulley through a piece of brass tubing. There was a little bit of axial play before.
[19:54:31] <_methods> i figured you must have some sort of cap preloading up there
[19:54:35] <Rab> Pretty ghetto, I'll see how it performs over time.
[19:54:38] <_methods> wasn't sure though how you were doing it
[19:55:38] <Rab> But if the bearings give up the ghost, it'll be 10 minutes work to replace them.
[19:56:05] <_methods> yeah
[19:56:17] <_methods> easy to find them too lol
[19:56:26] <_methods> cheap and abundant
[19:57:02] <Cromaglious> any video of it working yet?
[19:59:11] <Rab> Nope.
[19:59:58] <Rab> But I was getting good results with 1/8" 2-flute end mill in aluminum, which was the purpose of the project.
[20:00:32] <alex4nder> Rab: did you measure runout?
[20:00:33] <Rab> Still trying to find right speed/feed for smaller end mills, broke a couple of 1/16".
[20:00:41] <Rab> alex4nder, I haven't.
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[20:01:21] <alex4nder> Rab: I'm curious what you get.. my new taig er16 spindle had < .0002 .. which is pretty good for the price.
[20:01:52] <Cromaglious> hmmm now I have to find a chunk of AL 2 1/8" inches in diameter at least 2.5" long
[20:01:54] <Rab> alex4nder, I'll check it out and update the page at some point.
[20:02:00] <alex4nder> Rab: cool thanks
[20:03:04] <Rab> alex4nder, I was weighing ER11 vs ER16 for the next spindle...some people say larger collets introduce more runout. Maybe it's negligible between those.
[20:03:21] <alex4nder> Rab: I think quality of the collets matters a ton
[20:03:32] <alex4nder> Rab: have you had any overheating issues with that BLDC setup?
[20:03:33] <Cromaglious> ER16 would be nice that gives you 3/8"
[20:03:35] <Rab> ER16 would take 3/16" tooling, but I can't imagine using that on this router.
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[20:04:12] <Rab> alex4nder, not so far. I was worried about the shaft-driven fan at first but it seems stable over time, warm to the touch.
[20:04:18] <furrywolf> I'm planning on er25 for mine once I have some money to spend on tooling.
[20:04:47] <alex4nder> Rab: hmm, ok. do you have any idea what the lowest stable RPM is for that motor?
[20:04:55] <furrywolf> (chinese lathe/mill combo machine, not a taig)
[20:06:05] <Rab> alex4nder, very low, probably 100rpm. The BLDC ESC has a governor that tries to keep speed consistent. It does crap out if the motor bogs down to the point where it can't sense back-emf.
[20:06:13] <alex4nder> hmm ok
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[20:06:51] <Cromaglious> furry your quill what taper is it? mt3?
[20:06:59] <alex4nder> Rab: I'm looking at a replacement option for my taig,... I want to go with something like this, variable speed, with a gilmer-like belt
[20:07:11] <furrywolf> mt3
[20:07:22] <Rab> I'm only using a 4A PSU and the ESC/motor claim 100/85A(!) rating, so I think a better PSU might help the governor.
[20:07:25] <alex4nder> Rab: and put the ESC under linuxcnc control
[20:07:31] <alex4nder> cool
[20:08:18] <Rab> alex4nder, the ESC is set with a standard servo signal. I'm generating that with an AVR, shouldn't be much effort to use the onboard ADC to read 0-10V for external control.
[20:08:31] <alex4nder> Rab: oh cool
[20:08:55] <alex4nder> haha 85 amp constant current
[20:08:55] <alex4nder> fear
[20:09:03] <Rab> It might be possible to add a PWM with the right settings directly to LinuxCNC and bypass all that, though!
[20:09:38] <furrywolf> I have lots of things that can supply 85A. however, the ratings on a lot of r/c stuff are based on "it won't melt before your battery pack runs dead", rather than continuous duty.
[20:09:52] <Cromaglious> oh motor is mount in a extrusion
[20:09:59] <Rab> Yeah, I'm pretty sure the motor would melt or the belt would break or some other bad thing would happen.
[20:10:03] <furrywolf> bbl, back to work
[20:12:09] <Rab> Cromaglious, I found out the hard way that those little outrunner motors are like a blender on a stick...they need an enclosure for safety.
[20:13:21] <Cromaglious> yep, and it channels cooling air too
[20:13:44] <Cromaglious> you measure rpms yet?
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[20:14:27] <Rab> Yeah, the motor tops out at 7200rpm which translates to 14400 at the spindle.
[20:14:40] <alex4nder> fear
[20:15:05] <alex4nder> Rab: what made you pick that motor?
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[20:15:46] <Rab> At 24V. Hobby King carries another version of the same motor with a higher "kv" rating, might be good for 20,000 rpm at the spindle.
[20:15:56] <Rab> alex4nder, a friend loaned it to me.
[20:16:04] <alex4nder> cool
[20:16:39] <Rab> This is probably the one I'd choose myself: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__23521__NTM_Prop_Drive_50_60_Series_380KV_2665W.html
[20:16:52] <Simonious> How do I setup a V-carve on cambam?
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[20:17:09] <Rab> Although wow, I see they have a 580KV version: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__22035__NTM_Prop_Drive_50_50_580KV_2000W.html
[20:17:35] <alex4nder> fear
[20:17:47] <Rab> Which would be 13,920rpm @ 24V, 27,840 at the spindle.
[20:18:11] <Rab> Which would be a nice PCB drilling speed (Z axis too slow for that though).
[20:19:54] <Rab> Anyway I think they're a great value for the money. The motor/ESC combo come out to ~$80.
[20:20:39] <Rab> Although with a belt-driven spindle, you can use anything. I was going to use a blender motor to test, before this one came my way.
[20:22:29] <Cromaglious> hmm 8mm shaft... 50-60 380Kv is 11400rpm at 30v I could almost use a coupler to connect it to the spindle
[20:23:43] <SpeedEvil> Cromaglious: I've been pondering doing silly things involving driving out the existing shaft, and replacing with a ground one with a collet on the end
[20:24:53] <Cromaglious> you can get collet holders for 8mm shafts
[20:25:40] <Rab> It's been done many times: http://www.raynerd.co.uk/?p=1562
[20:26:03] <Rab> This is a particularly nice example: http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/cncspindle/
[20:26:48] <Rab> I wanted to keep the motor and spindle separate, though, so I could service whichever died first without taking the whole thing apart.
[20:27:36] <SpeedEvil> Cromaglious: yes - I was concerned about runout
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[20:43:07] <Cromaglious> That dieselrc.com one is excellent
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[20:45:41] <the_wench> skunkworks: Jymmm said lol
[20:46:06] <Jymmm> wth?! hahahaha
[20:49:10] <skunkworks> I was already in....
[20:54:00] <andypugh> Integral motor is cool, but I think I would have wanted to put the motor between the bearings.
[20:55:00] <andypugh> And it seems there was a nive big hole in the middle of the rotor magnet
[20:55:57] <alex4nder> also you don't get much control on gearing
[20:56:05] <alex4nder> : |
[20:58:06] <Cromaglious> Harbor freight trim router is 65mm in diameter
[20:58:12] <Cromaglious> dang it
[20:59:04] <andypugh> I built a brushless motor from scratch. It was fun, but probably pointless :-)
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[21:02:15] <Cromaglious> same motor I have is $58 just for the spindle, $209 for spindle PS, controller and all 13 ER11 collects
[21:02:25] <Cromaglious> and mount
[21:02:58] <Cromaglious> hmmm or it maybe wiring now
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[22:09:58] <Cromaglious> well just ordered a 400w spindle er11 + a 15amp pwm speed control and some engraving bits
[22:10:11] <Cromaglious> $88
[22:18:28] <alex4nder> nice
[22:22:07] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:23:12] <Cromaglious> not what I wanted, but what I could afford
[22:23:29] <Cromaglious> really want a .8kw VFD spindle
[22:24:03] <Cromaglious> really really want a 2.2Kw
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[22:32:24] <Cromaglious> $295 but it's 80mm and the 3040 is a 52mm non changable...
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