#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-03-09

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[00:01:20] <zeeshan> how do you find out what the reference voltage is for the ADC?
[00:01:24] <zeeshan> in this damn datasheet
[00:02:02] <zeeshan> no idea where they are getting this 2.048V from
[00:05:19] <renesis> page 6
[00:05:51] <zeeshan> oh its not 2.048
[00:05:58] <zeeshan> for the resistive b ridge measurement
[00:06:01] <zeeshan> i gotta learn to read
[00:06:08] <zeeshan> To implement a ratiometric bridge measurement, the bridge excitation voltage is simultaneously used as the reference voltage for the ADC;
[00:06:15] <zeeshan> so its always changing
[00:06:26] -!- nerdfiles has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[00:06:33] <zeeshan> er not always changing
[00:06:35] <zeeshan> its 5V.
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[00:08:35] <zeeshan> step size = 5/2^24
[00:09:04] <zeeshan> 0.000000298 :D
[00:11:15] -!- pandeiro has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:12:41] <furrywolf> god I hate windows. hate, hate, hate. It just took trying five different sets of instructions to disable requiring signed drivers, requiring the command prompt and a reboot.
[00:13:00] <zeeshan> ??
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[00:13:01] <zeeshan> just reboot
[00:13:02] <zeeshan> f8
[00:13:07] <Tom_itx> furrywolf what ver?
[00:13:09] <zeeshan> and disable driver enforcement
[00:13:23] <Tom_itx> zeeshan where do you do that?
[00:13:30] <zeeshan> right before the windows screen
[00:13:35] <zeeshan> when windows starts
[00:13:39] <zeeshan> f8 like crazy
[00:14:13] <somenewguy> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridgeport-Milling-Machine-CNC-Crusader-Controls/231215379380?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D0af7e2c335e04e16924b8a618e60c9de%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D331483041298&rt=nc
[00:14:27] <somenewguy> so perfect, if only I had the cash...
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[00:16:13] <Tom_itx> a bit small but i wouldn't be greedy
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[00:18:40] <somenewguy> for a home shop, its pretty good, but now you are gonna make me greedy
[00:19:12] <furrywolf> win7
[00:20:26] <Tom_itx> furrywolf is win7 32 or 64 bit
[00:22:36] <Tom_itx> since they dropped support for xp i'm looking at 7 or 8
[00:22:56] <Tom_itx> for one machine anyway
[00:24:09] <zeeshan> windows XP!!
[00:24:12] <zeeshan> holy! :P
[00:24:27] <Tom_itx> ?
[00:24:32] <Tom_itx> got a problem with that?
[00:24:32] <zeeshan> thats ancient :P
[00:24:46] <Tom_itx> it works good for what i use it for
[00:24:55] <Tom_itx> btw i still run 6.2 dos
[00:25:11] <zeeshan> hehe
[00:25:15] <zeeshan> i hate windows 8 man
[00:25:21] <zeeshan> and windows 10 doesnt look any better
[00:25:21] <Tom_itx> and it does it's jog nice
[00:25:38] <Tom_itx> i have 3 on 8 but not me personally
[00:25:52] <Tom_itx> 3 on vista
[00:26:03] <Tom_itx> 2 on xp
[00:26:12] <Tom_itx> 1 on 6.2/nt4 :D
[00:26:24] <Tom_itx> 3 on linux
[00:27:04] <Tom_itx> vista had updates to 7 but i never did them
[00:28:30] <Tom_itx> zeeshan what do you use?
[00:28:35] <zeeshan> win 7
[00:29:06] <zeeshan> if i could run all this software in linux
[00:29:12] <zeeshan> id move to linux in a heartbeat
[00:29:13] <Tom_itx> if you were getting a copy which would you get?
[00:29:30] <zeeshan> for win7?
[00:29:37] <Tom_itx> 7 or 8?
[00:29:44] <zeeshan> 7
[00:29:47] <Tom_itx> why?
[00:29:56] <zeeshan> windows 8 interface is terrible
[00:30:12] <Tom_itx> yeah i don't care much for it, i don't think i could be that productive with it
[00:30:19] <furrywolf> I have a couple autoshop programs that don't WINE... installing them keeps getting harder and harder.
[00:30:29] <furrywolf> if not for them, I'd never use windows.
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[00:32:52] <bobo_> can one dual boot windows ?
[00:33:30] <furrywolf> yes
[00:33:32] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't think about dual boot. i tried it once and it went to crap in a hurry
[00:33:40] <furrywolf> ... how would dual boot go to crap?
[00:34:11] <Tom_itx> boot.ini gets corrupt or ntdetect etc
[00:34:17] <Tom_itx> or something else
[00:34:17] <furrywolf> never had a problem...
[00:34:39] <furrywolf> and I've always set up my systems with windows as dual boot, so they can be pleasant to use at least part of the time.
[00:35:12] <Tom_itx> did you let windows handle the dualboot or linux?
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[00:36:59] <furrywolf> linux
[00:37:07] <furrywolf> grub
[00:37:44] <bobo_> grub or grub2 ?
[00:38:01] <furrywolf> whichever one Debian installs. heh
[00:38:22] * furrywolf didn't know there was a 2
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[00:39:30] <bobo_> whatever the "new / enhanched " grub is called
[00:43:19] <MacGalempsy_> good evening
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[00:44:58] <SpeedEvil> bobo_: lilo
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[00:48:28] <bobo_> I thought lilo was pre grub ----not that i ever knew thought
[00:49:52] <furrywolf> lilo is old
[00:50:08] <bobo_> so is bobo
[00:50:35] <CaptHindsight> lilo is a very short yodel
[00:53:28] <Jymmm> #hdhomerun
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[00:55:51] <bobo_> Ok----- where is that Pete in ugly-cold-no beaches Tn. person ?
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[01:16:42] <_methods> heheh if you like playing with grub dual booting is fun
[01:16:43] <_methods> lol
[01:17:35] <_methods> it's a lot easier just having 2 hard drives and booting from the install you want
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[01:34:02] <CaptHindsight> why did they name it after a worm?
[01:34:29] <CaptHindsight> or larva
[01:37:47] <_methods> because that's what you have to be to dig out of messes with it
[01:39:45] <jdh> it's grand
[01:40:07] <CaptHindsight> I guess "pain in the ass" would be too many words
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[01:40:41] <CaptHindsight> actually it's not bad, just too many steps to make edits
[01:41:20] <CaptHindsight> grub2 was almost coreboot
[01:41:47] <CaptHindsight> until there was a rift between core devs
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[01:50:56] <PetefromTn_> Evening folks
[01:52:21] <_methods> hola
[01:53:04] <PetefromTn_> aloha
[01:53:14] <_methods> you still under snow
[01:53:39] <PetefromTn_> no actually today was glorious.. like 65 degrees and sunny
[01:55:16] <_methods> oh damn nice
[01:55:22] <_methods> was about like that here too
[01:55:28] <_methods> probably 70 or so all day
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[01:55:59] <PetefromTn_> yeah we took the kids to the park today
[01:56:03] <_methods> omg just looked at this weeks weather
[01:56:06] <_methods> low is 73
[01:56:18] <_methods> w00t
[01:56:23] <PetefromTn_> then it was so nice we headed up into Gatlinburg and had some dinner up there
[01:56:43] <PetefromTn_> drove back down thru the Great Smoky Mountains National Park on the way home.
[01:57:06] <_methods> ah nice
[01:57:12] <PetefromTn_> It was a welcome change from the misrerable weather we have been having.
[01:57:21] <_methods> fo sho
[01:57:38] <PetefromTn_> I am NOT a snow and winter person
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[01:59:40] <CaptHindsight> I'm just glad to have some 50's this week
[02:00:11] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: is all your snow already gone?
[02:01:03] <furrywolf> current forecast is fog until tuesday, then rain until thursday, then ???.
[02:01:19] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah it never sticks around more than a day or two.. in fact this last one was the biggest snow I have ever seen since living here 15 years now..
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[02:09:55] <furrywolf> bbl
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[02:18:17] <bobo_> Hay Pete has the beach thawed out yet ? what have you been doing on the mill
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[02:19:52] <PetefromTn_> no idea what the beach is doing it is too frackin' far away...
[02:20:27] <PetefromTn_> have not done jack diddly squat on the mill lately it has been like a freezer out in the shop up until the end of this week...
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[02:21:20] <PetefromTn_> with my forced air kerosene heater not working It takes far too long to heat up the shop and without any paying jobs for it lately I just have been working on other things.
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[02:23:59] <bobo_> Pete look at this centering device , approx 2 min mark--I hope , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otSjut1iGGk --- something to draw up in the house .
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[02:25:20] <bobo_> also in the comments section , he refers to build info
[02:26:48] <bobo_> hope your home shop ,to be, in Florida is as nice
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[02:28:15] <PetefromTn_> never really thought too much of laser centering devices.... I use a starrett edge finder and it is about as accurate as I will ever need. I also have a coaxial indicator if necessary.
[02:29:41] <zeeshan> its not about accuracy though i'd think with that laser pointer
[02:29:46] <zeeshan> its about rapid setups
[02:29:50] <zeeshan> for not so accurate parts
[02:30:20] <zeeshan> he says he can get down to 0.05 mm
[02:30:21] <PetefromTn_> yeah I suppose
[02:30:23] <zeeshan> thats with his eyes
[02:30:23] <zeeshan> lol
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[02:30:28] <zeeshan> i'd fail miserably
[02:31:09] <PetefromTn_> I don't see me using it
[02:38:27] <XXCoder> heys
[02:38:30] <XXCoder> finally home
[02:39:36] <bobo_> XXCoder hows the new hire doing ?
[02:40:00] <XXCoder> pretty good
[02:40:19] <XXCoder> I tried to buy tool chest but either too expensive or ran out lol
[02:40:28] <XXCoder> so gonna wait a bit to get better quality one
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[02:43:15] <bobo_> know a guy who used his wife's overnight s-case , when starting at a job
[02:44:09] <XXCoder> lol ok
[02:44:14] <tjtr33> zeeshan, maybe of interest, i've used a LabJack U3 for years http://labjack.com/u3
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[02:51:23] <bobo_> tjtr33 your comment on that laser center finder ---- I think you are correct --- have been thinking about that thing all day
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[02:59:19] <tjtr33> bobo_, he's very intersting, the flexure video was very good
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[03:03:29] <bobo_> yes but you pointed out useing it to tram a vertical head , was good
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[03:15:20] <tjtr33> well it looked like a very visual way to do that
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[03:57:40] <furrywolf> I hate daylight savings time.
[03:58:19] <anarchos2> so i have a button on parport pin 12, works great, but i added a button on pin 13 and it seems that since they are sharing a common ground and are being pulled up the system can't tell the difference between the two
[03:59:38] <anarchos2> what's the proper procedure for hooking up inputs like this?
[04:00:34] <furrywolf> I don't understand what you're asking. there are no built-in pullup or pulldown resistors.
[04:01:19] <anarchos2> well my BOB has pullups, so i have my button hooked into the pin 12 input, and into the ground, same goes (but pin 13) for the 2nd button
[04:01:38] <anarchos2> so when i hit either button, both pin 12 and 13 are activated at the same time
[04:03:02] <furrywolf> that shouldn't happen... check your wiring, or a possibly faulty 5V supply.
[04:03:43] <anarchos2> well if they are both hooked into the same ground...would it not "cross contaminate" the signal?
[04:04:26] <furrywolf> no
[04:04:34] <furrywolf> and that doesn't even make sense. lol
[04:04:44] <anarchos2> heh
[04:05:09] <furrywolf> unless you have normally closed switches and your ground is bad, but even then I don't think it would do that...
[04:05:31] <anarchos2> normally open
[04:06:08] <furrywolf> a bad 5V supply might activate all the inputs at once if you grounded any of them
[04:06:31] <anarchos2> hmm
[04:10:33] <anarchos2> now i'm super confused :P. I thought you were on to something (i have a BOB with ethernet connectors for inputs as well as spring loaded quick connectors...so i figured maybe it was because i still had the limit switches connected via ethernet (which i stopped using for the time being because they're a POS)
[04:10:48] <anarchos2> so i disconnected that, and nothing works now :P
[04:16:09] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aJ4TJ4-kkDw thats cool
[04:18:22] <furrywolf> hrmm. I completely missed that last year california's 10-day waiting period on firearm purchases was declared unconstitutional.
[04:19:01] <anarchos2> Ok i'm just a major idiot :P. My BOB is labelled to have pull up and pull down, but it turns out it only has pull up built in, and you're suppost to add your own resistor for pull down, but because i had my limit switches still plugged in (which have a resistor) it was working the way i thought it was suppost to when only having one button
[04:19:32] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: so your drive through gun shop idea is viable once again?
[04:19:57] <anarchos2> so now that i wire the buttons input pin and 5v, it works :D
[04:20:02] <furrywolf> lol
[04:20:05] <XXCoder> nice
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[04:23:19] <furrywolf> that skylight looks cool, but I suspect it draws an ungodly amount of power.
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[04:23:44] <XXCoder> dunno but with price like pretty good new car im not buying anytime soon
[04:23:48] <furrywolf> lol
[04:24:01] <MacGalempsy_> now that drive thru gun shop sounds pretty good
[04:24:16] <XXCoder> yeah good for that sudden murder needs
[04:24:27] <XXCoder> dont forget taco bell for meal after
[04:24:31] <XXCoder> murder meal
[04:24:56] <MacGalempsy_> in louisiana you could stop get a drive through dacquiri (sp?) then go over an get a gun without ever getting out of the car
[04:25:07] <furrywolf> their website is both useless and poorly designed.
[04:25:19] <MacGalempsy_> here in arkansas we have drive thru liquour stores
[04:28:14] <furrywolf> their product seems to be a film with particles in it that scatter the light. they claim it can be powered by either LED or fluorescent lamps.
[04:29:28] <furrywolf> their available models all use LED, which makes sense.
[04:30:41] <furrywolf> I suspect china can turn them out for about $100...
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[04:31:17] <XXCoder> yeh
[04:31:25] <XXCoder> car prices hah
[04:31:34] <XXCoder> magic must be in that scattering
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[04:32:33] <furrywolf> probably some type of diffraction grating to obtain the 3d effects...
[04:32:55] <XXCoder> its chemical stuff
[04:33:05] <XXCoder> it shows it in video, in least in abstract
[04:33:50] <Crom> ugh those moshidraw laser are total crap
[04:34:16] <furrywolf> just toss a lenticular layer over some glass microbeads...
[04:34:19] <Crom> we have 2 1.4 RAMP board to stick in them
[04:36:07] <furrywolf> I can't find a patent for it, but I haven't looked very hard.
[04:36:09] <Crom> then we have to build elevting table for the inside
[04:36:43] <XXCoder> Crom: it actually recreates the real blue color via scattering our air does
[04:37:25] <Crom> nice
[04:37:52] <furrywolf> "the aperture of the artificial skylight opens into a recess merely a metre deep in the basement's false ceiling" ... a meter deep?
[04:38:01] <furrywolf> that would explain the $7k installation cost
[04:38:17] <XXCoder> definitely not for low ceiling basements.
[04:38:41] <XXCoder> its a start probably will find better methods that lower depth to inches
[04:40:16] <furrywolf> http://www.google.com/patents/US8469550
[04:43:49] <XXCoder> long article
[04:43:57] <XXCoder> microscattering
[04:44:47] <XXCoder> http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--C_YrW9ZD--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/p6ytm2ocql7odpgondow.gif
[04:45:00] <XXCoder> it was easy for me lol
[04:46:26] <MacGalempsy_> no matter what, its always a sunny blue sky
[04:47:08] <furrywolf> I think I could build a flat panel with a decent approximation of that effect.
[04:47:55] <MacGalempsy_> what happens when you look out the window and it is overcast, then you look up and its bright blue?
[04:48:13] <furrywolf> it's for places that don't have windows.
[04:48:44] <XXCoder> yeah thats why it talked about it being in basement MacGalempsy_
[04:48:59] <furrywolf> if you have a window, you don't need a skylight. :P
[04:49:13] <furrywolf> hrmm, now I want to build one. but on a completely different principle.
[04:49:14] <MacGalempsy_> why not?
[04:49:22] <furrywolf> ... because sun comes in windows?
[04:49:32] <MacGalempsy_> but not always enough
[04:49:48] <furrywolf> sawzall + bigger window. :P
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[04:51:32] <furrywolf> I think I could make one of those about an inch thick of optical space and two inches of mechanical space. the effect might not be as perfect, but I think it'd be good enough.
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[04:52:32] <furrywolf> using two layers similar to lenticular optics...
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[04:53:25] <furrywolf> it'd rely on textured surfaces rather than embedded particles
[04:54:37] <XXCoder> since its a montior it would be much more programmable
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[04:54:49] <XXCoder> in least something like it anyway
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[04:55:38] <Crom> I really need a skylight in my living room since it's the north east corner of the hhhouse
[04:55:57] <XXCoder> mines NW
[04:56:06] <XXCoder> its always cold but nice
[04:56:28] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[04:56:52] <Crom> cold is nice here, since it gets to 110 in the summer
[04:57:00] <XXCoder> http://hackaday.com/2015/03/07/new-part-day-really-really-wide-screens/
[04:58:15] <XXCoder> few of those could be nice CNC display
[04:58:23] <XXCoder> X, Y, Z and other stuff on side
[04:58:54] <XXCoder> 89 bucks and it is driven by serial
[04:59:02] <XXCoder> so no driver
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[04:59:31] <XXCoder> usb version 129 bucks
[05:00:15] <MacGalempsy_> looks cool, but not sure what its good for
[05:00:29] <XXCoder> its just something people gonna come up with use
[05:00:39] <MacGalempsy_> ah ok
[05:00:50] <XXCoder> video has server rack
[05:00:57] <XXCoder> so racks would actually have montiors
[05:01:10] <XXCoder> so it can show internal state without network if something broke with network
[05:01:26] <MacGalempsy_> ok making more sense
[05:02:00] <MacGalempsy_> Ive seen the 2u keyboard monitor before
[05:02:01] <XXCoder> I bet there are applications for vertical too
[05:02:27] <MacGalempsy_> I guess it would make a pretty cool equilizer control
[05:02:41] <XXCoder> yeah with touch addon
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[05:04:32] <MacGalempsy_> add another jogwheel and two can play pong
[05:04:43] <MacGalempsy_> really little paddles
[05:04:44] <XXCoder> lol yeah
[05:04:48] <XXCoder> 2 of those
[05:05:11] <XXCoder> would need regular screen in middle for ball travel so really probably not lol
[05:05:50] <MacGalempsy_> I was thinking a long skinny one, lots of fast deflections
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[05:13:33] <XXCoder> hh
[05:13:36] <XXCoder> ohh
[05:13:42] <XXCoder> interesting varation
[05:14:11] <MacGalempsy_> with a little luck, this machine may be running agian tonight!
[05:14:24] <XXCoder> whats issues
[05:15:18] <icecube45> TTN, it's happening
[05:15:38] <icecube45> About halfway through my z axis calibration (2/3 axises)
[05:15:40] <icecube45> axi?
[05:15:42] <Cromaglious> You figure out the sserial=m00xxx stuff?
[05:16:26] <icecube45> oop
[05:16:28] <icecube45> wrong channel
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[05:23:36] <Cromaglious> MacGalempsy_, you get abs.0.in using float?
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[05:42:06] <MacGalempsy_> Cromaglious: not yet.
[05:42:31] <MacGalempsy_> trying to get the rest of the wiring together so I can put the back on this thing and quit looking at the mess
[05:49:34] <Cromaglious> hehe
[05:52:02] <Cromaglious> got a 40w laser cutter going today using Moshidraw, made 6 passes over 0.011 aluminum did not even etch it. Baked a bit of carbon black onto it... Used a Acy torch to black it up.
[05:52:50] <Cromaglious> replacing the crap board with a RAMP 1.4 board
[05:59:53] <MacGalempsy_> that sounds pretty cool. do you think it will eventually cut the Al?
[06:01:05] <Cromaglious> Maybe... Going the RAMP 1.4 route so we can get full control via linuxcnc for raster or vector
[06:02:02] <Cromaglious> first thing we have to do is add in interlocks so the laser goes off on lid open
[06:02:22] <XXCoder> http://notalwaysrelated.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/02a762538b4769262fa5b2fd0439560d.jpg
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[06:05:49] <Cromaglious> Hmm Green Eggs and Ham are contemporary to Jim Henson, but miss Piggy came along WAY after that
[06:06:20] <Cromaglious> Unless Kermit was making time with pigs before Miss Piggy
[06:06:42] <XXCoder> probably miss piggy before Kermit finally made pull to hire her in shwo
[06:06:45] <XXCoder> show
[06:08:10] <Cromaglious> There is that possibility
[06:08:27] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:09:02] <Cromaglious> Out of Friglock, a bastard green ham child that also lays eggs...
[06:09:38] <XXCoder> kermit also does chicken off side
[06:09:44] <XXCoder> what else theres green eggs too lol
[06:10:05] <Cromaglious> There's 3 kids at least then
[06:10:20] <XXCoder> or more
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[06:18:39] <XXCoder> http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/8/0/8/378808.jpg?v=1
[06:18:44] <XXCoder> lol very good photoshop
[06:19:01] <XXCoder> its "what if old news was reported via modern means"
[06:19:03] <XXCoder> contest
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[06:31:40] <Cromaglious> pondering adding a Z axis to my lathe
[06:32:17] <XXCoder> so tools can hit material avove or below center of material?
[06:32:27] <XXCoder> not sure what z axis means in that context
[06:33:44] <Cromaglious> mount it like a steady rest bolted to the ways. so I use the apron and cross slide for X and Y
[06:34:13] <XXCoder> I never ran a lathe so not too sure what that means
[06:35:08] <XXCoder> http://www.americanmachinetools.com/lathe_diagram.htm nice
[06:35:35] <XXCoder> ahh I get it
[06:36:09] <Cromaglious> make the tool post the work holder and the Z axis would have the router on it
[06:40:53] <Cromaglious> or get 2 z axisand mount them on either side of the apron and use cross slide as Z, apron as Y and Z as X
[06:46:24] <archivist> the big mistake using a lathe for milling as well is the job of conversion on each change of use
[06:46:43] <Cromaglious> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atlas-Craftsman-Milling-Machine-M1-4-Milling-Table-FB-167-/161625652292?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a1a3bc44
[06:50:32] <Cromaglious> hehe 182"x67" tslot table $24,500 http://www.ebay.com/itm/182-x-67-Cincinnati-T-Slot-Table-/221365414011?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338a68287b
[06:50:57] <XXCoder> dang
[06:51:11] <XXCoder> would need a badass motor to haul that around
[06:51:17] <XXCoder> that or moving mill head
[06:53:46] <Cromaglious> old milling machine t slot tables being sold as 'Welding' layout tables http://www.ebay.com/itm/38-x-10-2-Steel-Welding-T-Slotted-Table-Cast-iron-Layout-Plate-T-Slot-Weld-Jig-/131323016845?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e9376368d
[06:54:03] <XXCoder> it looks ground
[06:56:54] <archivist> run over with an angle grinder by the look of it
[06:57:23] <Cromaglious> probably to knock all the splatter off of it
[06:58:59] <archivist> go down the scrap yard get the whole machine for that money
[06:59:49] <XXCoder> jeez
[06:59:53] <XXCoder> thats nuts
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[07:00:08] <XXCoder> and you can get a mill for $465?
[07:00:15] <XXCoder> nonworking I assunme
[07:00:54] <archivist> just think of the scrap price per ton
[07:01:32] <archivist> a bridgeport is probably under a ton
[07:01:40] <Cromaglious> I'd love to get a mill with decent ways.. Gibs I could make, motors I can rig, quills I can fake until I find bearings
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[07:02:05] <archivist> the scrap yard needs to take it to bits to get the best price for the metals
[07:02:40] <archivist> you can fettle worn ways back to good
[07:02:49] <XXCoder> ways is bottom dovetail that hold umm table?
[07:03:00] <Cromaglious> yep
[07:03:32] <XXCoder> wonder if you can make your mill ways replaceable
[07:03:42] <XXCoder> basically grind it down, make bolt on ways
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[07:03:58] <XXCoder> of course, keyd so it cannot rotate or move while being used
[07:04:11] <archivist> a book Machine tool reconditioning and applications of hand scraping Edward F. Connelly Machine Tool Publications 1985
[07:04:26] <archivist> used to all be done by hand
[07:04:53] <Swapper> XXCoder: linear ways are like that
[07:04:55] <Swapper> removable
[07:04:57] <Swapper> replaceable
[07:05:06] <archivist> just need some measuring tools and hard work
[07:05:07] <XXCoder> ahh
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[07:05:29] <archivist> Swapper, not removable, cast part of machine
[07:05:49] <Swapper> linear bearings are bolted on right ?
[07:05:55] <Cromaglious> sheeshz... $400 for a Cincinnati Milacron Acraread reel to reel table drive for CNC lathe
[07:06:02] <archivist> only recent machines have ball slides
[07:06:16] <Swapper> yea most VMCs have
[07:06:23] <Swapper> cant get the speeds otherwise
[07:06:27] <Cromaglious> s/table/tape/
[07:07:17] <archivist> speed is related to the power driving the machine not its slides
[07:07:54] <Swapper> yea but ok, they use ball slides so they dont need to burn a lot of energy in the movment of the tables
[07:08:34] <Swapper> i dont know what the efficency diferance is between boxed/dovetail ways vs ball slides
[07:08:35] <archivist> another book to find Testing machine tools 8th edition for the use of machine tool makers, users, inspectors and plant engineers G Schlesinger Pergamon Press 1982
[07:08:37] <Swapper> but its much
[07:09:35] <archivist> not as much as you think, once a normal slide lifts onto the oil film there is a dramatic drop in friction
[07:11:38] <archivist> a ball slide has an almost constant friction due to its seals
[07:11:50] <Cromaglious> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Haas-CNC-Mill-Machining-Center-HS1RP-Video-Floppy-Interface-Board-32-3200-PCB-/190874454148?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c71010884
[07:12:10] <Cromaglious> floppy... sheeshz... 8" probably
[07:12:32] <Cromaglious> and they want $500
[07:12:42] <archivist> they over charge for cnc machine parts because they get away with it
[07:13:09] <XXCoder> 500 monopoly cash more like :P
[07:13:33] <archivist> someone has to pay many K to either replace the machine or buy the spare
[07:16:27] <Cromaglious> and all their files are non-generic, with no conversion is gcode available on floppies probably to boot...
[07:16:55] <XXCoder> floppy drive. wonder if it would be convertable to modern stuff
[07:17:35] <Cromaglious> then there is the Tape drives
[07:17:48] <XXCoder> punch cards
[07:17:57] <archivist> yes, some people have done it for collectable computers
[07:18:44] <Cromaglious> you probably find 8" floppy to flash drive adapters too
[07:18:50] <archivist> for the price of that card, a pc and mesa card and most of your control can be upgrades with linuxcnc
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[07:19:22] <XXCoder> yeah can make hardware that fakes old hardware
[07:19:34] <XXCoder> like "tape" machine thats actually just flash
[07:20:06] <Cromaglious> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFUQtwIwBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D6ODv48t-Ya8&ei=ZUn9VIfFBsTloATvyoKQDQ&usg=AFQjCNE4IN2k0Z_NfZfPcvj2FgP_FwtO2A&sig2=zfaxGzDhc5K4dGVLW6Z2vQ&bvm=bv.87611401,d.cGU
[07:20:07] <XXCoder> flash with enough memory that if it was actual tape it would be able to go around earth few times
[07:21:03] <XXCoder> thats ancient drive to usb lol
[07:21:15] <XXCoder> I never used 8 incher but my bro did
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[07:22:01] <Cromaglious> I've had 2 computers with 8" drives Trash-80 Model 2 and a Model 12
[07:22:41] <Cromaglious> 8" drives used to be a good source for quality steppers
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[07:23:11] <MacGalempsy_> just about there...
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[07:53:52] <Cromaglious> well I bought a TP-link 300n router and figured out how to run a virtual 300n interface on my buffalo router I'm using to get internet from my neightbor. Switched from using his FIOS router to using his 300n belkin, now I can watch youtube video's without pauses. I just pulled out my old 100 switch I had in the living room which on did 54Mb wifi and it only did about 70Mb via ethernet cable for a wifi USB 150n which is a
[07:53:53] <Cromaglious> ctually getting 100Mb to 140Mb from my TP-link in the attic
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[08:08:25] <MacGalempsy_> hmmmm
[08:10:26] <MacGalempsy_> well lesson. when checking connections, make sure P is not 0 hahaha
[08:11:58] <archivist> converting a cnc comes with free lessons as standard
[08:14:06] <archivist> one of the best parts, because from now on you can fix it yourself
[08:15:11] <MacGalempsy_> lessons in bang head here signs
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[08:16:48] <Deejay> moin
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[08:40:10] <Cromaglious> so true, I've learned Moshidraw REALLY SUXS!
[08:40:33] <Cromaglious> MacGalempsy_, getting closer I take it?
[08:41:56] <Cromaglious> nite all
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[10:34:01] <Swapper> anyone have any thaught on making a deasent waycover for a mill ?
[10:35:50] <archivist> some are just folded a bit like camera bellows
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[10:38:14] <archivist> http://www.dynatect.com/protective-covers/bellows
[10:44:18] <_methods> waycovers suck
[10:44:33] <_methods> seems like no matter how you make them they always have issues
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[10:53:09] <Swapper> i have found some nice rubber sheets that works for z and the backside of the table.
[10:53:16] <Swapper> but need somting better in the front
[10:53:37] <Swapper> where thinking of making one in sheet metal, but i guess its a pain to do
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[11:05:10] <_methods> yeah when they work they work great
[11:05:17] <_methods> but when something goes wrong its a nightmater
[11:05:23] <_methods> s/nightmare
[11:05:39] <_methods> chips get caught under the edges
[11:05:54] <_methods> might be easier to do on a minimill i guess
[11:06:03] <_methods> if you can keep it clean
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[11:11:03] <renesis> my minimill came with some rubber mats that are thick and rigi enough to stay flat, front one covers and hangs over the y stepper, back one kind of curls up in the gap between the table and column
[11:11:31] <renesis> shit works really well kind of ridiculous simple
[11:11:45] <_methods> yeah that's probably the best way to go for a minimill
[11:12:00] <_methods> collapsible metal bellows can be a real PITA
[11:12:09] <renesis> just seems heavy to do on even something tormach size
[11:12:26] <renesis> yeah that sounds like drama unless crazy expensive
[11:13:10] <renesis> folded paper ones seem like a pretty good solution
[11:13:20] <renesis> prob get pretty quick at macking new ones
[11:13:34] <renesis> have some sort of replacement schedule =\
[11:15:27] <_methods> i might make a 2 part cover for mine made out of uhmw or something
[11:15:39] <_methods> the travel is so small on my y axis
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[12:18:42] <Swapper> plan A for me is the rubber mat method, but its seems nicer with metal ones. Probably not worth the effort and maintanance
[12:19:36] <Swapper> or probably a hubrid, metal the first segment then atatch some rubber mat to that
[12:23:02] <Tom_itx> 38�F, nice change from last week
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[12:27:02] <Swapper> whre real nice 57°F (14C) this weekend, even got a bit warm working in the yard
[12:43:27] <jthornton> 40F here and lots of rain that we don't need with saturated ground...
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[13:24:18] <jdh> mid 70s most of the week here
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[13:50:34] * JT-Shop wonders if he can put the snow shovel away for the year?
[13:51:41] * HSD already has
[13:53:08] <jdh> that's a pretty foreign concept
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[14:06:14] <malcom2073> I figure I should buy a snowthrower, that should garuntee no more snow this year, or for the next 5
[14:06:59] <CaptHindsight> we should be above 32F starting in an hour and for the next 10 days, was 20f a few hrs ago
[14:07:14] <CaptHindsight> floods should follow
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[14:27:17] <skunkworks> dad picked up a desktop sinker edm..
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[14:31:16] <SpeedEvil> Wow!
[14:31:26] <SpeedEvil> Ideal if you need to cut through misplaced desks.
[14:31:52] <cradek> skunkworks: did he break a tap in something?
[14:31:54] <_methods> cool i've never seen a desktop sinker
[14:32:06] <_methods> is it just a tap disintegrator?
[14:32:08] <skunkworks> hansvedt 150b.
[14:32:28] <_methods> damn that's awesome
[14:32:30] <skunkworks> no - it does a little bit of everthing.
[14:32:42] <_methods> that thing is cool
[14:32:45] <_methods> i want
[14:33:22] <skunkworks> cradek, you can never have too many tools :)
[14:33:29] <_methods> wow that thing would be perfect for the few edm jobs we ever get
[14:34:12] <cradek> I'd sure like a wire machine (occasionally)
[14:34:27] <skunkworks> heh - that will probably be the next thing...
[14:35:06] <skunkworks> I mentioned for one of my projects that it would be nice to have a small edm.. He said he knew of one cheap. Then picked it up..
[14:35:16] <skunkworks> thanks dad
[14:35:23] <_methods> nice
[14:35:29] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:35:34] <_methods> well that sure is a score
[14:35:45] <_methods> i've been trying to find our shop a nice little sinker for awhile
[14:35:59] <SpeedEvil> The person selling it was clearly selling it wrong.
[14:36:02] <_methods> that thing would be perfect
[14:36:05] <SpeedEvil> They should have called it a 3d unprinter
[14:36:26] <skunkworks> it is missing one big part - the oil resivor and pump..
[14:36:43] <skunkworks> *and filter
[14:37:11] <_methods> hehe 3d unprinter
[14:37:18] <_methods> isn't that what all mills are technically
[14:37:24] <CaptHindsight> _methods: tjtr33 builds edm of all sizes and shapes, you might ask him
[14:37:32] <_methods> really?
[14:37:54] <_methods> i've been watchin out for a little charmilles or somethign like that
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[14:38:03] <CaptHindsight> sometimes people just give them away fro free if you remove them
[14:38:23] <_methods> yeah i'm always watching it's not something we have any money allotted for
[14:38:32] <_methods> but if i see a deal i know the boss will take it
[14:38:53] <_methods> every once in awhile we get jobs we have to sub out for edm stuff
[14:38:58] <CaptHindsight> they are usually older and big
[14:39:24] <CaptHindsight> but you never know
[14:39:30] <_methods> i want nothing to do with wire edm
[14:39:36] <_methods> sinker we can use
[14:41:14] <archivist> skunkworks, a well trained dad!, you can post it to me too :)
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[14:42:05] <skunkworks> it has a dro also
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[14:43:29] <archivist> one could make carbide pallets for clocks with it
[14:44:08] <skunkworks> it is funny - the couple programs still in the matsurra where for carbon sinker dies..
[14:44:16] <skunkworks> when we got it
[14:45:03] <skunkworks> hmm - maybe they came from the same place.. It actually could be - we got both machines from the same surplus place..
[14:47:47] <CaptHindsight> possibly from the same shop? :)
[14:47:53] <skunkworks> right
[14:48:18] <skunkworks> it will be interesting to see how it works - it has a moog hydrauic valve and cylinder for the sinker part.
[14:49:25] <archivist> you ducked out of cnc over hydraulics last time didnt you?
[14:49:56] <skunkworks> yes
[14:51:21] <archivist> the modellers over here have a few stepper and PIC chip sinkers
[14:51:23] <dirty_d> is too low of a surface speed bad, or just too high?
[14:51:38] <dirty_d> for finish/tool life, i dont care about productivity
[14:51:43] <archivist> the right speed is right
[14:51:52] <dirty_d> what if its unatainable?
[14:51:58] <dirty_d> my max spindle speed is 2000rpm
[14:52:18] <archivist> compromise and dont worry
[14:52:23] <dirty_d> ok
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[14:57:37] <skunkworks> There is a guy local to me that has done a bit of diy edm.. I know he went to some of the galesberg fests.
[15:01:16] <skunkworks> so - why does linuxcnc have plane dependant speeds? It seems like Z is treated differntly from the other axis.
[15:01:33] <skunkworks> I think rob has been removing a lot of that but it still seems to be there.
[15:04:21] <archivist> does your Z have the same speeds as YX
[15:04:32] <archivist> accelerations
[15:04:40] <skunkworks> yes
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[15:05:30] <skunkworks> If I run arc spiral in xy it peaks at 550ipm - if I run the same program in the xz plane - it peaks at about 320
[15:06:03] <skunkworks> G17 vs G18
[15:06:14] <skunkworks> (didn't try g19 but I assume the same..
[15:08:38] <skunkworks> huh - no. YZ runs full speed.
[15:08:50] <cradek> are you positive your axis constraints are set the same?
[15:09:59] <skunkworks> yes
[15:10:13] <cradek> then I don't know
[15:10:19] <cradek> maybe it's a bug...
[15:10:32] <skunkworks> G17 and G19 run max speed. G18 runs a bit slower.
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[15:11:54] <cradek> weird
[15:12:41] <skunkworks> question for rob. poor rob...
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[15:15:02] <skunkworks_> cool program ;) http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/Screenshot%20from%202015-03-09%2010:14:18.png
[15:15:54] <ssi> morn
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[15:43:23] <ssi> ha someone has a tractor frame with a homebuilt jet engine made from an 18 wheeler turbo up on craigslist for $200
[15:43:28] <ssi> I might have to go get that tonight
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[15:52:07] <JT-Shop> does he have photos of that?
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[16:00:56] <skunkworks> I take it - garden tractor/ lawnmower?
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[16:12:44] <CaptHindsight> anyone going to http://www.promatshow.com/ http://www.automateshow.com/ ?
[16:13:32] <CaptHindsight> I've thought about a tabletop demo at one of these shows for Linuxcnc
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[16:50:17] <dirty_d> i really dont understand why peopel do the things they do at my job
[16:50:48] <dirty_d> internet explorer forced into compatability mode by group policy, i assume to make out webpage render correctly
[16:50:53] <dirty_d> how about fix the damn webpage!
[16:51:12] <dirty_d> and what about all the people accessing it off site?
[16:51:24] <XXCoder> unless its internal site only
[16:51:28] <dirty_d> its not, lol
[16:51:38] <XXCoder> then your IT sucks
[16:51:45] <dirty_d> and forcing compatability mode breaks other sites that dont support IE8
[16:51:48] <dirty_d> youre right
[16:52:23] <dirty_d> tahts probably an understatement
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[16:53:49] <XXCoder> theres also idiot workers that add wifi router, unsecured, to secure network
[16:54:09] <XXCoder> some files was stolen before it sniffed it out and killed that rputer
[16:54:13] <XXCoder> that worker was fired
[16:54:19] <_methods> i hope so
[16:55:24] <dirty_d> were supposed to have a security audit soon
[16:55:41] <dirty_d> its going to be a rude awakening, lol
[16:55:56] <XXCoder> lol
[16:56:13] <dirty_d> i dont think they understand jsut how bad everything really is security wise
[16:56:38] <dirty_d> i tried to make a bunch of changes to fix it a year ago, but no one else was onboard.
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[16:59:24] <mozmck> Is there any more documentation for Gscreen than what is here? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Gscreen
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[17:06:27] <tjtr33> skunksleep, you can use stock truck oil filter bodies and cartridges, i used 'em for AGie AB's so fine for the 150B ( nice 110Vac :) the pump is any old thing, maybe Little Giant cuz you can replace any part and solvent safe.
[17:06:38] <tjtr33> skunksleep, http://goo.gl/pn6jzD
[17:07:06] <ssi> JT-Shop, skunkworks: http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/snw/4891270549.html
[17:07:07] <tjtr33> you want 5um filter for good finishes, 25um for rough work
[17:09:52] <tjtr33> some old school guys may know the anisters as 'topsiders' allowed you to change oil on car w/o going underneath :)
[17:10:08] <skunkworks> tjtr33, thanks!
[17:10:25] <tjtr33> np, very happy someone will use edm
[17:10:48] <skunkworks> well - haven't actually plugged it in yet...
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[17:12:47] <tjtr33> http://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=4523&acctid=685
[17:12:56] <skunkworks> The powersupply seems pretty simple though.. and we have schematics.
[17:13:45] <skunkworks> That looks like it
[17:14:47] <skunkworks> we have the hydraulic supply - just not the dialetric resevor and pump
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[17:27:43] <tjtr33> one i built http://ibin.co/1uFbTmx8DMNZ
[17:29:42] <skunkworks> cool. I assume you filter after the pump?
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[17:33:14] <tjtr33> yeah push oil thru filter, output to the manifold. keep 1 line to a tee, you get venturi suction, and 1 line to head (cleaner looks and is where you want it)
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[17:38:45] <JT-Shop> ssi, wild
[17:39:21] <XXCoder> wild indeed
[17:39:26] <archivist> have a few weirs in in the tank to settle the crud before the filter too
[17:41:19] <archivist> ssi, some aspects of that design are life threatening
[17:42:59] <ssi> archivist: that's pretty much up my alley :D
[17:43:07] <ssi> misadventure is my style
[17:43:22] <ssi> it has no brakes currently hahahah
[17:43:31] <archivist> or suspension
[17:43:41] <ssi> meh
[17:43:46] <archivist> spindly axles
[17:44:02] <ssi> have you seen my formula 440 car?
[17:44:09] <archivist> no
[17:44:28] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCD1cf1jG5E
[17:44:49] <zeeshan> ssi
[17:44:55] <zeeshan> what pcb /schematic software do you use
[17:44:59] <ssi> eagle
[17:45:21] <archivist> wot! kicad is the nooo kid on the block
[17:45:21] <zeeshan> its free?
[17:45:46] <Rab> zeeshan, limited to 80x100mm board area but free otherwise.
[17:45:47] <ssi> no I have a full license for it
[17:45:54] <ssi> well yes there's a free version
[17:45:56] <ssi> but it's pretty limited
[17:45:57] <zeeshan> why do people hate diptrace?
[17:46:07] <ssi> because LeelooMinai likes it
[17:46:11] <zeeshan> lol
[17:46:15] <JT-Shop> lol
[17:46:18] <zeeshan> hahahah
[17:46:32] <zeeshan> im totally confused on how to import a component that doesnt exist in it
[17:46:36] <zeeshan> i have some ibs file from TI
[17:46:52] <zeeshan> i keep finding shit about irritable bowel syndrome
[17:46:53] <archivist> write a format converter
[17:46:58] <Rab> zeeshan, timecop is diptrace expert.
[17:47:04] <Rab> If that tells you anything.
[17:47:13] <zeeshan> timecop is pretty elite
[17:47:20] <Rab> Well, now he uses Altium.
[17:47:34] <Rab> But if you need parts creation advice.
[17:47:51] <zeeshan> i just want to start laying out my schematic
[17:47:53] <zeeshan> but i dont want to do all this work
[17:47:57] <zeeshan> and have it break when i go to make the pcb
[17:48:01] <zeeshan> its my first PCB!
[17:48:24] <Rab> zeeshan, which part are you trying to import?
[17:48:31] <zeeshan> ads1220 by TI
[17:49:04] <Rab> TSSOP package, or VQFN?
[17:49:35] <Rab> Seems to me like you might as well just create a custom part, rather than trying to import something which might screw you up.
[17:49:41] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Normally, at least people who are more advanced at this than you, just make own footprints and symbols, to ensure quality.
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[17:49:52] <tjtr33> skunksleep, re edm safety, when power is on, you can touch the tool, you can touch the workpiece, you cant touch both!
[17:49:56] <zeeshan> TSSOP
[17:49:58] <zeeshan> 16
[17:50:07] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: DipTrace has pretty user friendly pattern and symbol creators.
[17:50:10] <ssi> _methods: did you make an arc furnace this wkd?
[17:50:27] <Rab> zeeshan, yeah, just make a part using preexisting TSSOP-16 footprint.
[17:50:33] <zeeshan> ah
[17:50:41] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZOhFdPT.png
[17:50:46] <zeeshan> im pretty much copying this circuit
[17:50:47] <zeeshan> x 5
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[17:50:49] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Though for footprint, you can just reuse TSSOP16 from the basic libray.
[17:50:51] <Rab> I haven't used diptrace, but I hear parts creation is a lot easier than in eagle.
[17:51:14] <skunkworks> tjtr33, check!
[17:51:14] <LeelooMinai> Yes, it's pretty straightforward
[17:51:20] <zeeshan> and linking that with the arduino uno
[17:51:33] <zeeshan> or something else that can intrepret spi
[17:51:40] <zeeshan> and give my computer the data
[17:52:11] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Or you could just use USB to SPI bridge IC on your design.
[17:52:34] <Rab> zeeshan, how fast do you need to update your thermocouple reading? Have you considered using just one ADC and an analog mux?
[17:52:46] <zeeshan> 10 samples per sec would be the max
[17:52:51] <zeeshan> for all types of sensors ill ever hook u p
[17:53:10] <zeeshan> Rab: that stuff gets too advanced for me
[17:53:17] <zeeshan> this chip makes sense to me
[17:53:28] <zeeshan> i basically set some registers up
[17:53:30] <zeeshan> and itll do what i need
[17:53:35] <Rab> zeeshan, OK. Not a cheap chip though.
[17:53:36] <zeeshan> at least _i think _ it will
[17:53:38] <zeeshan> its 3 bux
[17:53:45] <Rab> Where do you see that?
[17:53:51] <zeeshan> http://www.ti.com/product/ads1220
[17:53:58] <zeeshan> scroll down to approx cost
[17:53:58] * LeelooMinai bests that zeeshan will mess something up on the pcb layout
[17:54:02] <zeeshan> 4 bux
[17:54:13] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: its my first time, so i think i will
[17:54:25] <zeeshan> gotta learn sometime.
[17:54:45] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Tip #1: keep the decoupling caps close to the IC pins
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[17:55:00] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: im pretty much copying their development board
[17:55:00] <zeeshan> lol
[17:55:19] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Good idea - mimick what they do there:)
[17:55:31] <Rab> zeeshan, that's in mass mfg qtys. Digi-Key shows $10.67 in single quantities.
[17:55:33] <zeeshan> yea, and im trying to question why they do what they do
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[17:55:43] <zeeshan> rab thats still a lot better than 400$
[17:55:46] <zeeshan> for a full out daq
[17:55:48] <zeeshan> load cell amplifier
[17:55:48] <zeeshan> etc
[17:56:01] <zeeshan> apparently you can get free samples from ti
[17:56:02] <zeeshan> lol
[17:56:03] <Rab> zeeshan, also, are you certain you need 24 bits?
[17:56:10] <zeeshan> Rab: more resolution can't hurt
[17:56:11] <Rab> Yeah, sample them if you can!
[17:56:18] <tjtr33> 3$ / ku you getting free samples?
[17:56:28] <zeeshan> if you look at the free sample link
[17:56:40] <zeeshan> you can request some :)
[17:56:46] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: If you are not sure about something done on the pcb you can ask here and if I see it, I will tell you, or you can post it on ##electrollnics
[17:57:00] <zeeshan> ill run it by you guys when i have something
[17:57:39] <Rab> haha electrollnics
[17:58:03] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: i was looking at the usb to spi converter
[17:58:09] <LeelooMinai> Pretty much what it became recently:)
[17:58:10] <zeeshan> it only has one CS pin
[17:58:15] <zeeshan> i need 5
[17:58:18] <Rab> zeeshan, request as many as you can. If you're not used to soldering TSSOP packages, there might be a learning curve.
[17:58:24] <zeeshan> and they almost cost as much as the arduino uno
[17:58:45] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: 5? Are you going to use 5 of those ADCs? :)
[17:58:52] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: yes
[17:59:00] <zeeshan> im hoping to activate the cs line
[17:59:02] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: On one board?
[17:59:02] -!- ink has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[17:59:04] <zeeshan> yes
[17:59:14] <zeeshan> cs line to control communication/activation of each chip
[17:59:19] <zeeshan> and loop
[17:59:40] <Rab> <Rab> zeeshan, how fast do you need to update your thermocouple reading? Have you considered using just one ADC and an analog mux?
[17:59:43] <Rab> ;)
[17:59:54] <zeeshan> rab its more thjan a thermocouple that'll be connected
[18:00:27] <zeeshan> Rab: ive been wondering what the purpose of the PGA is to begin with
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[18:00:29] <zeeshan> in this chip ..
[18:00:30] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: That's a bit ambitious for first PCB, but sold(i)er on:)
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[18:01:18] <zeeshan> in my load range, the voltage unamplified goes from 0-.65mV in .016mV increments
[18:01:38] <zeeshan> the adc resolution is 5/2^24 = 0.00029mV
[18:01:56] <zeeshan> so wouldn't it be able to discretize the unamplified signal?
[18:02:40] <ssi> I doubt it really is going to be able to discretize 24 bit realistically
[18:02:49] <Rab> zeeshan, don't rely on the 24-bit figure for anything. From the front page: "Up to 20-Bits Effective Resolution"
[18:03:04] <zeeshan> okay thats still 0.004mV in 20 bit mode
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[18:03:41] <zeeshan> the only reason i see for amplification is the ability to boost resolution
[18:03:53] <Rab> Your least significant bits are usually noise. 24bit just (hopefully) gives you more resolution over 16bit, which doesn't give true 16bit resolution anyway.
[18:04:08] <archivist> some averaging required to get any better that 20bit
[18:04:19] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: This will do up to 11 SPi slaves: http://www.silabs.com/products/interface/usbtouart/Pages/usb-to-spi-bridge.aspx
[18:04:36] <zeeshan> if i do 128 max gain, the voltage goes from 0-83.33mV in 2.08mV increments
[18:04:55] <zeeshan> so now the ADC has a bit easier time discretizing i guess?
[18:05:31] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: $2.30
[18:05:31] <zeeshan> haha
[18:05:34] <LeelooMinai> Though I don't trust SiliconLabs a lot - they screwed some of their ICs in the past
[18:05:59] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Maybe look at CYpress instead
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[18:06:37] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: why are you against the arduino
[18:06:38] <zeeshan> :-)
[18:06:47] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Ardu-what?
[18:06:52] <zeeshan> hehe
[18:07:03] <zeeshan> it's great for electronic noobz
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[18:07:19] <PCW> The A-D always performs best when using full scale input (Hence the PGA)
[18:07:20] <PCW> a strain gauge will need a additional amplifier
[18:07:21] <archivist> it is pronounced aaarrrrrrghuino
[18:07:27] <LeelooMinai> I prefer to design things, not to glue them together and pray they will work:)
[18:08:13] <zeeshan> pcw: if i don't use an additional amplifier, what happens -- and why are they showing the outputs of the strain gauge going directly to the pga ?
[18:08:41] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: that's what you did with your cnc machine though! :P
[18:08:47] <zeeshan> did you do any mechanical calculations?!?! :P
[18:09:00] * zeeshan hides
[18:09:09] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Yes, and I designed the whole frame in SolidEdge
[18:09:14] <PCW> throwing away about 7 bits of resolution (or maybe more depending on A-D noise performance)
[18:09:20] <zeeshan> modeling is different than designing
[18:09:27] <zeeshan> designing is when you sit down and calculate the forces and deflections
[18:09:32] <zeeshan> under metal cutting loads.
[18:09:36] <zeeshan> in that context
[18:09:53] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I did that - you underestimate the extent of my OCD:)
[18:09:57] <PCW> .65MV needs a separate amp probably close to the strain guage
[18:10:10] <zeeshan> 128 gain isn't enough?
[18:10:16] <PCW> no
[18:10:25] <zeeshan> how much gain is enough
[18:10:49] <PCW> its not just gain, its noise issues
[18:10:49] <ssi> enough to get your full scale sensor reading up to the full scale input range of the adc :P
[18:10:59] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I saw you alredy made some spreadsheet for this: you just need to look at what your load cell will output as a signal, take the PGA into accout, and see if you will cover the target ADC range nicely.
[18:11:25] <PCW> yeah and not try to pipe .65 MV signals a long way
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[18:12:13] <zeeshan> thats a good point..
[18:12:16] <zeeshan> i didnt think of that
[18:12:23] <zeeshan> the wire coming from the strain gauge will run like 4 feet..
[18:12:33] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vOpHcCZ.png
[18:12:36] <zeeshan> amplification numbers
[18:13:27] <zeeshan> or..
[18:13:28] <LeelooMinai> Can the ADC even use 5V as the reference?
[18:13:33] <zeeshan> i can put this chip right next to the PCB
[18:13:36] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: yes
[18:14:10] <LeelooMinai> 83mV is a bit of a fail probably
[18:14:24] <zeeshan> i dont understand why you guys are looking at the maximum value
[18:14:31] <zeeshan> isn't the step size more important
[18:14:33] <zeeshan> between each value?
[18:14:37] <LeelooMinai> Because it's what you want to map to the ADC
[18:14:54] <PCW> better to put a strain gauge amp at or close to the gauge
[18:15:09] <archivist> use full scale to get the best out of the ADC
[18:15:17] <zeeshan> okay so if i use a 5v reference, that means i want my max input voltage before the ADC to be as close to 5v
[18:15:18] <PCW> then you are piping 0 to 5 or 10V signals around
[18:15:18] <zeeshan> as possible
[18:15:56] <zeeshan> then thers really no point of this chip
[18:16:01] <zeeshan> cause i'll need an external PGA
[18:16:08] <PCW> so 5V reference PGA gain =1
[18:16:10] <zeeshan> right next to the strain gauge
[18:16:36] <zeeshan> well not even a pga, just an instrumentation amplifier
[18:16:37] <PCW> no its fine for stuff like thermocouples
[18:16:40] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: ADC will spread the bits over its full scale input range. If your signal uses just tiny bit of that range, you are making your effective resolution worse.
[18:16:49] <_methods> ssi: no i was a total slacker
[18:16:53] <PCW> 83MV FS is great for TCs
[18:16:55] <_methods> went to watch chappie instead
[18:16:57] <ssi> _methods: I made one!
[18:16:58] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: makes sense :)
[18:17:00] <_methods> oh man
[18:17:03] <_methods> pics
[18:17:04] <ssi> heheh
[18:17:10] <_methods> how'd it work out?
[18:17:19] <ssi> I think I was using too much current
[18:17:20] <_methods> my wife is getting my firebricks today
[18:17:23] <ssi> I melted the brick some
[18:17:28] <ssi> but I was able to melt aluminum
[18:17:32] <_methods> sweet
[18:17:35] <zeeshan> pcw: damn it why doesnt mesa make daq's for this purpose!!
[18:17:41] <zeeshan> you know the immense applications for cnc!! :P
[18:17:50] * LeelooMinai ponders melting bricks
[18:18:10] <PCW> you could use a 7I87 and those pre-Amps
[18:18:12] <XXCoder> ssi: what was you trying to do? melt alum>?
[18:18:19] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_rNL_TW8AE2xJE.jpg:large
[18:18:28] <ssi> I threw some chips on top of it
[18:18:37] <_methods> nice
[18:18:46] <PCW> and it would "just work" with linuxcnc
[18:18:50] <_methods> did you use arc gouge rod?
[18:18:52] <XXCoder> partially melted not bad
[18:18:54] <ssi> yep
[18:18:57] <ssi> copper coated
[18:18:58] <_methods> cool
[18:19:02] <_methods> sweet that's what i got
[18:19:03] <PCW> but low res
[18:19:04] <_methods> 3/8
[18:19:04] <zeeshan> PCW: i just need to data log to intrepret data in matlab
[18:19:07] <XXCoder> though I would try pottery kiln
[18:19:08] <ssi> but i flipped them around and used the little bit of uncoated end
[18:19:14] <ssi> yea 3/8
[18:19:23] <ssi> I got them at a local welding store for $0.92 each
[18:19:24] <ssi> heheh
[18:19:30] <XXCoder> cheap
[18:19:30] <_methods> yeah they'r dirt cheap
[18:19:34] <_methods> we have boxes of hundreds
[18:19:38] <LeelooMinai> ssi: So... why do you try to melt aluminum anyways? :)
[18:19:40] <ssi> I am gonna make another with the other half of the brick I had
[18:19:50] <ssi> and try with 100A this time instead of 200A :D
[18:19:53] <XXCoder> wild guess is to case em into stock usable for cnc
[18:19:53] <_methods> i might make one just using 2 bricks
[18:20:02] <_methods> 200a was too much eh?
[18:20:07] <ssi> yeah it was a lot
[18:20:11] <PCW> if you are just reading the strain gauges just get a cheap USB DAQ systems and add those strain gauge amps
[18:20:15] <_methods> i think i have 75a
[18:20:17] <ssi> I kinda wish I had a little crucible
[18:20:21] <_methods> i'll try that i guess
[18:20:31] <_methods> make a little crucible hehe
[18:20:46] <ssi> smallest ones I can find for sale are too big for a firebrick
[18:20:51] <ssi> I need to just make a proper furnace
[18:20:52] <_methods> isn't jt in the middle of furnace making
[18:20:54] <zeeshan> which strain gauge amps?
[18:20:55] <_methods> and casting
[18:21:18] <ssi> any thoughts on how to coat the inside of teh brick to minimize porosity?
[18:21:23] <ssi> was thinking borax or something
[18:21:28] <ssi> and maybe use some borax as a flux
[18:21:32] <_methods> i think they do a mud coating or something
[18:21:34] <ssi> but I don't really know what I'm talking about :)
[18:21:36] <_methods> i need to read up on it
[18:21:39] * LeelooMinai writes in her future project ideas notebook "Don't melt stuff in bricks"
[18:21:47] <XXCoder> ssi: http://www.instructables.com/id/Quick-cheap-and-dirty-aluminum-melting-furnace-s/
[18:21:51] <ssi> LeelooMinai: what do you suggest? :P
[18:21:59] <zeeshan> refactory bricks! :P
[18:21:59] <_methods> i want to do some steel
[18:22:00] <LeelooMinai> ssi: Gardening:)
[18:22:03] <ssi> it's firebrick
[18:22:25] <zeeshan> you can use ceramics :P
[18:22:48] <LeelooMinai> I saw some guy on youtube making medieval swords:)
[18:23:06] <_methods> yeah i might make some mixed drink swords lol
[18:23:07] <XXCoder> I saw video where guy used big pottery pot, lined inside with fire bricks and that stuff, then put smaller pottery pot inside with oven cooking elements wround around it
[18:23:09] <ssi> _methods: mcmaster sells two types of firebrick, 2300F and 2600F
[18:23:11] <_methods> olive sword
[18:23:12] <XXCoder> worked well
[18:23:13] <ssi> mine was 2600F
[18:23:21] <ssi> problem is, steel melting temp is 2600-2800F :(
[18:23:28] <LeelooMinai> I liked the "squelching part", when he emerged red-hot sword in oil, took it out and it was flaming - it looked pretty epic:)
[18:23:30] <_methods> yeah that guy said he did some steel in his
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[18:23:44] <_methods> but it smoked his bricks
[18:23:47] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: nice
[18:24:00] <ssi> also mcmaster's bricks cost way too much
[18:24:06] <ssi> I need to find a local supplier
[18:24:20] <_methods> heat treat oven rebuilders
[18:24:27] <zeeshan> ssi casting suppliers
[18:24:28] <zeeshan> will have
[18:24:34] <XXCoder> can always try method I linked to, using steel buckets you probably got somewhere lol
[18:24:48] <ssi> I haven't found one of those either :/
[18:24:52] <_methods> i think JT built his with coffee cans
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[18:25:13] <ssi> I have a heat treat furnace also
[18:25:21] <ssi> honestly I could put a little crucible in that and it would do pretty well
[18:25:24] <ssi> but it's very small
[18:25:26] <XXCoder> wonder if kiln would work
[18:25:31] <ssi> it would
[18:25:32] <zeeshan> the steel ladle ive seen are frigging huge
[18:25:34] <XXCoder> alwaqys wanted to try
[18:25:46] <zeeshan> its basically bricks
[18:25:51] <zeeshan> with ceramic cement on the inside
[18:26:04] <zeeshan> enclosed in a huge thick ass steel barrel
[18:26:14] <zeeshan> they have thermocouples in the steel barrel to detect leaks
[18:26:23] <zeeshan> and fix problems before they get worse
[18:27:49] <zeeshan> anyone know how to determine the "sensitivity" of a strain gage?
[18:28:22] <zeeshan> oh
[18:28:26] <zeeshan> its the same thing is gage factor
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[18:29:04] <XXCoder> ssi: if you got land with no laws, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_TU-PCudoE lol
[18:29:27] <ssi> I AM NOT BOUND BY THE LAWS Of MEN
[18:29:42] <SpeedEvil> That's because you're a velociraptor.
[18:29:49] <CaptHindsight> I need to build a room made of firebrick
[18:29:56] <ssi> my mom said I could be anything I wanted
[18:30:01] <ssi> so I became a velociraptor
[18:30:05] <XXCoder> RAPORS! Where's windows I should jump out??
[18:30:31] <XXCoder> cheap stainless steel pot to hold alum
[18:30:32] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: Gonna make a kilning?
[18:30:50] <XXCoder> and cheapass fan as air pusher to make wood burn harder
[18:30:54] * SpeedEvil is pondering making a ~40*40cm*5m kiln
[18:31:06] <SpeedEvil> Up to 250C only though - for wood treatment
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[18:32:10] <CaptHindsight> I need to separate things that burn or boom go when hot from hot things
[18:32:17] <SpeedEvil> ah
[18:32:34] <CaptHindsight> chem lab from welding area
[18:33:03] <SpeedEvil> Why firebrick?
[18:33:11] <ssi> concrete block should be plenty
[18:33:16] <SpeedEvil> Rahther than - say - installing fire suppression
[18:33:31] <XXCoder> guys wouldnt melting alum open cause quality of melt to be lousy with crud?
[18:33:41] <XXCoder> probably why that guy cast was so bad
[18:33:45] <CaptHindsight> was joking, structural since it's called brick and as a fireblock
[18:33:53] <SpeedEvil> A layer of flux on top can help lots
[18:34:12] <ssi> SpeedEvil: have suggestions on a flux?
[18:34:28] <SpeedEvil> I forget - I think borax
[18:34:30] <XXCoder> http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-own-Eco-friendly-soldering-flux/ ?
[18:34:31] <CaptHindsight> fire suppression is for after you have a problem, a wall is to prevent problems
[18:34:34] <ssi> yeah that's what I was thinking
[18:34:37] <SpeedEvil> no.
[18:34:41] <SpeedEvil> not soldering flux!
[18:34:50] <XXCoder> yeah thought not
[18:34:56] <SpeedEvil> It's useless for melting other than perhaps tin
[18:35:02] <SpeedEvil> and lower melting point stuff
[18:35:27] <ssi> I use wax or sawdust for lead
[18:35:29] <ssi> http://www.amazon.com/Borax-Laundry-Booster-76-Box/dp/B000R4LONQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1425926087&sr=1-1&keywords=borax
[18:35:44] <XXCoder> 12 bucks
[18:35:52] <XXCoder> borax for alum eh
[18:36:23] <cradek> borax in alcohol is used for a lot of hard soldering in jewelry
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[18:36:36] <cradek> you can burn off the alcohol and be left with a nice coating
[18:36:44] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGJ2jMZ-gaI fun project when you can melt buncha alum
[18:36:49] <XXCoder> and has fire ant problem
[18:38:13] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC0H6mPyfZA 20 mule team borax
[18:38:45] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax
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[18:40:10] <XXCoder> nice http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=fluxes_for_melting_aluminum
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[18:44:51] <XXCoder> drossing flux would recover more alum from alum cans I guess
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[18:48:56] <ssi> _methods: I'm watching the vid about that arc furnace again
[18:49:06] <ssi> interesting to note that when he melts aluminum, the firebrick looks almost untouched
[18:49:14] <ssi> but when he melts steel, his firebrick melts pretty badly too
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[18:49:20] <ssi> I just need to try again with way lower current
[18:52:10] <jthornton> firebrick is good to what 1800F or so
[18:52:12] <CaptHindsight> anyone customize gmoccapy yet? I'd like to use it for a single axis setup with a bunch of IO
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[18:52:31] <ssi> jthornton: the one I have says 2600F
[18:52:35] <ssi> the "regular" ones are 2300
[18:53:01] <CaptHindsight> watch the axis rotate, see synchronized events around the rotating parts in the chuck
[18:53:41] <jthornton> what's the pouring temperature of steel something like 2900F
[18:54:05] <SpeedEvil> Also - firebrick temperature, and firebrick exposed to molten meta is rather different
[18:54:22] <CaptHindsight> which linuxcnc GUI is the most flexible for customization?
[18:54:38] <ssi> SpeedEvil: yeah and I was wondering if I should melt some borax into the brick before I melt aluminum in it
[18:54:40] <jthornton> yea steel pouring temperature is 2800-3100F
[18:54:50] <SpeedEvil> ssi: how much Al are you trying to melt?
[18:54:51] <ssi> I saw something along those lines done when I was watching stuff about melting gold
[18:54:57] <ssi> not much
[18:54:59] <ssi> like an ounce :P
[18:55:01] <ssi> I'm just screwing around
[18:55:10] * SpeedEvil got some nice 210*70mm crucibles for $8 per.
[18:55:13] <SpeedEvil> AlO
[18:55:16] <ssi> where?
[18:55:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alumina-ceramic-crucible-cylindrical-with-domed-bottom-Now-2-for-a-tenner-/271481533974?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3f358f7616
[18:55:50] <SpeedEvil> he's out though
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[19:06:47] <_methods> buwhahahahahahhah apple is selling that watch for $350
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[19:11:40] <XXCoder> cheap
[19:11:42] <XXCoder> for apple
[19:11:47] <XXCoder> I expected $800
[19:12:02] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-BF350-3AA-BF350-350-Precision-Pressure-Resistance-Strain-Gauge-350-ohm-/171205726729?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dca81209
[19:12:04] <zeeshan> damn chinese
[19:12:07] <zeeshan> so cHEAP!!!
[19:12:15] <zeeshan> how doth ey afford free shipping too lol
[19:12:20] <XXCoder> easy
[19:12:28] <XXCoder> they create their own shipping
[19:12:33] <XXCoder> group em up
[19:12:43] <XXCoder> if people dont buy so much chinese crap it would rise price
[19:12:49] <CaptHindsight> _methods: I'd pay no less than $500 for that :)
[19:13:40] <CaptHindsight> oh noes! an even worse all in one design http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150309-boxzy-an-all-in-one-3d-printer-laser-etcher-cnc-machine-launches-on-kickstarter.html
[19:13:41] <zeeshan> i gotta figure out how to mount of the strain gauges
[19:13:48] <zeeshan> so that it can temperature compensate
[19:13:50] <zeeshan> in the bridge
[19:14:19] <zeeshan> i think if i mount if transverse to the axis of load
[19:14:23] <zeeshan> it should be good :p
[19:15:30] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/boxzy/boxzy-rapid-change-fablab-mill-laser-engraver-3d-p
[19:16:05] <Rab> * Apple Watch Edition (18-karat gold case) starts at $10,000.
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[19:16:48] <XXCoder> yet another cnc box
[19:16:51] <XXCoder> YACB
[19:16:55] <zeeshan> haha
[19:17:00] <Rab> Wow, are they using the ballscrews for support?
[19:17:01] <zeeshan> i like how you have an abbreviation for it
[19:18:06] <Rab> Looks like it.
[19:18:06] <zeeshan> rab damn you!
[19:18:06] <XXCoder> though this one has ponental for additive subtractive cnc
[19:18:06] <zeeshan> make this amplifier!!
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[19:18:06] <XXCoder> abs print part then mill it for better precision
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[19:18:06] <Rab> zeeshan, too busy!
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[19:18:15] <zeeshan> man kistler load cells
[19:18:18] <zeeshan> are some next level shit.
[19:18:21] <zeeshan> in a good way
[19:18:42] <Rab> zeeshan, seen my spindle setup? http://reboots.g-cipher.net/spindle/
[19:18:43] <zeeshan> these guys are crazy, they have a sensor where you can load it with an oblique force
[19:18:50] <zeeshan> and it resolves it in Fx Fy Fz components.
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[19:19:04] <Rab> Going to try it out on the machine tomorrow.
[19:19:11] <zeeshan> dude
[19:19:13] <zeeshan> that looks bad ass!
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[19:19:35] <zeeshan> very cool dude.
[19:19:36] <Rab> Thanks! I hope it holds up longer than 20 minutes.
[19:19:43] <zeeshan> well i saw your initial design
[19:19:51] <zeeshan> what speed are you planning to spin this at
[19:19:57] <zeeshan> it looks like 20k rpm +
[19:20:07] <zeeshan> just by looking at that motor and pulley ratio
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[19:20:21] <Rab> 14500 rpm at the spindle right now.
[19:20:35] <zeeshan> i hope it's balanced :P
[19:20:54] <Rab> The motor isn't the best choice for high speed, but it was loaned to me so I can't complain.
[19:21:05] <zeeshan> looks like a quadcopter motor
[19:21:06] <zeeshan> :P
[19:21:23] <Rab> Yeah, probably mostly used for single-rotor though.
[19:21:43] <zeeshan> i really dig the er collet setup
[19:21:43] <Rab> Four would make a hellish quadcopter, and you'd need a lot of batteries.
[19:22:11] <Rab> Thanks! If this works out I'm going to do a 10mm shaft version with proper preloaded angular contact bearings.
[19:22:18] <XXCoder> guys skilled. http://cheezburger.com/69203457/epic-win-video-ice-sculpture-sphere
[19:23:35] <XXCoder> just cnc that shit though LOL
[19:23:39] <XXCoder> need waterproofinb
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[19:28:42] <Rab> iWatch has "all-day battery life" across a range of uses (18 hours in typical day).
[19:28:57] <Cromaglious> cnc'd centerless grinder
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[19:29:39] <XXCoder> I want REAL all day battery. 24 hours of max cpu usage with max networking and gps if has
[19:30:00] <XXCoder> good thing my kindle lasts month
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[19:30:10] * cpresser got a scara robot :)
[19:30:12] <Rab> High-precision accuracy within 50 milliseconds! You won't find that anywhere else this side of a $.25 crystal osc.
[19:30:17] <cpresser> motors and servo drives: http://imgur.com/qAi7bJ7,e1ArNyw,UdEBHNG#1
[19:30:31] <cpresser> unfortunately, i cant find any docs for the driver-boards
[19:30:50] <cpresser> so i am thinking of replacing them. anny suggestions for a 200W 80V servo amp?
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[19:31:38] <Rab> cpresser, servo drives are by Murata?
[19:31:47] <cpresser> Rab: hirata
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[19:34:22] <zeeshan> With high resolution ADCs, it is often unnecessary (and sometimes detrimental) to match the amplifier’s output range to the input range of the ADC. Instead, limit the gain to a value such that that the overall resolution is limited by the amplifier’s input noise.
[19:34:24] <zeeshan> interesting.
[19:36:04] <Cromaglious> http://www.wimp.com/choreographeddrone/ wow I never saw this add with the drones
[19:38:17] <jdh> I see people wanting instument amps to kick up stuff for the half assed adc in arduinos
[19:38:31] <XXCoder> lol http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/8/9/2/380892_v1.jpg
[19:38:37] <jdh> for 10-100mV signals
[19:39:12] <zeeshan> im just trying to understand why pcw said to use a preamplifier.
[19:39:42] <zeeshan> the PGA's full scale range is +/-0.016mV at 2.048V input reference
[19:39:59] <zeeshan> at 128 gain
[19:40:05] <Rab> zeeshan, he explained that. Long signal paths are susceptible to noise.
[19:40:17] <zeeshan> what is long though?
[19:40:17] <zeeshan> 3 feet?
[19:40:19] <zeeshan> 100 feet?
[19:40:21] <zeeshan> 1 cm?
[19:40:23] <Tom_itx> 5 miles
[19:40:37] <zeeshan> this uses a differential input
[19:40:43] <zeeshan> for CMRR.
[19:40:43] <Tom_itx> adc tend to be noisy and pick up noise rather easily
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[19:41:01] <zeeshan> common mode rejection noise i mean
[19:41:53] <Rab> zeeshan, you mentioned a 4' run. Could be problematic depending on your environment. Or it could be fine.
[19:42:05] <zeeshan> does it matter how much noise is there?
[19:42:10] <zeeshan> when itll get cancelled out
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[19:42:39] <Rab> Not all noise is common mode.
[19:42:58] <zeeshan> im just gonna try it
[19:43:00] <zeeshan> and see what happens
[19:43:03] <zeeshan> if its a big deal, oh well
[19:43:31] <zeeshan> i think im gonna buy their development board
[19:43:37] <zeeshan> and just try it with my strain gages
[19:43:43] <zeeshan> so i dont waste a bunch of time trying to make a pcb
[19:43:44] <Rab> Sure, try it. One advantage of the PGA is that if running without a preamp is a problem, you can add one and drop the gain programmatically.
[19:43:45] <zeeshan> and have it fail
[19:43:54] <Rab> zeeshan, I endorse that approach.
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[19:45:49] <cpresser> zeeshan: for strain-gauge i use the AD7192, there is an eval board for that one. more channels? -> ad7194
[19:46:01] <zeeshan> cpresser now you tell me!
[19:46:27] <cpresser> zeeshan: just read about that.. actually i am working on the ad7194 right now :)
[19:46:39] <zeeshan> in a strain gage application?
[19:46:55] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: What are the gagues for in your case anyways?
[19:47:04] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: strain gages, rtd
[19:47:57] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Ok, but what is that attached to and what for?
[19:48:04] <zeeshan> NOB!
[19:48:05] <zeeshan> :P
[19:48:11] <zeeshan> i dunno why does that matter
[19:48:30] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I am just crutious, that's all.
[19:48:37] <LeelooMinai> curious*
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[19:49:14] <LeelooMinai> Is this CNC reletaed?
[19:49:16] <zeeshan> no
[19:49:21] <zeeshan> its car stuff
[19:49:37] <LeelooMinai> A< ok, I thought it's some interesting attachment to a cnc or something like that.
[19:51:49] <zeeshan> it can be extended to cnc
[19:51:57] <zeeshan> for clamping loads for hydraulic drawbars
[19:52:02] <zeeshan> or measuring cutting forces
[19:52:09] <zeeshan> though the kistler setup would be superior
[19:52:43] <LeelooMinai> Measuring cutting forces sounds useful.
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[19:53:49] <LeelooMinai> But never heard it in context of linuxcnc, so probably not that common, no? :)
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[19:58:10] <cpresser> any recommendations for velocity mode servo amp up to 200W?
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[20:07:30] <renesis> leeloominai: ha, active backlash sensor
[20:08:04] <renesis> tho some sort of linear scale prob better for that
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[20:09:53] <LeelooMinai> Well, I imagine that seeing the cutting force would also allow for better tuning of the whole CNC "procedure"
[20:10:47] <LeelooMinai> And probably keep the tools life longer (?)
[20:11:21] <LeelooMinai> And you could also have virtual "limit" switches based on the cutting force
[20:11:31] <XXCoder> maybe even detect overcutting and stress that would break tool?
[20:11:37] <LeelooMinai> Right
[20:12:07] <XXCoder> well out for now, laters
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[20:12:39] <Cromaglious> hmmm current sensors on steppers would help too
[20:12:56] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but this is indirect measurement
[20:13:34] <LeelooMinai> Probably would require more tuning and be not as accurate, may have latency problems, etc.
[20:13:40] <Rab> I'm not sure a strain gage system could respond fast enough for those purposes without some complexity. You would need a fairly high sample rate, and very fast processing capability.
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[20:13:54] <LeelooMinai> Rab: Details:)
[20:14:22] <LeelooMinai> IN this age of fast micros, fpgas, etc. - sky is the limit:)
[20:14:41] <LeelooMinai> Probably fas ADC woul be the expensive part
[20:14:45] <LeelooMinai> fast*
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[20:15:20] <Cromaglious> trying to think how to implement stain gauges on a built unit without incurring lash of some type
[20:15:21] <Rab> But cutting forces can easily be calculated, and your servos are already giving you that feedback. I don't see a big engineering win.
[20:16:04] <LeelooMinai> Rab: But all those calculations are based on some theoretical values
[20:16:13] <SpeedEvil> Cutting forces could be rather more accurately measured if you measure them at teh head, not before the thread
[20:16:15] <Cromaglious> on stepper it could have to be in the motor mount and measure + and - stresses
[20:16:44] * LeelooMinai embeds some ceramic ball bearings into Rob's aluminum workpiece
[20:17:08] <Cromaglious> or you preload the gauge and check for decrease and increase
[20:17:36] <LeelooMinai> Ideally you want it as close to the actual cutting point as possible
[20:17:36] <Rab> Measuring at the stepper could be thrown off by leadscrew binding and other artifacts...I think measuring at the toolhead is the only way to get what you want.
[20:18:31] <Cromaglious> using 3 strain guages in the clamp around the spindle.
[20:19:10] <LeelooMinai> That would be better
[20:19:26] <LeelooMinai> But why 3?
[20:19:49] <Cromaglious> 120 degrees apart
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[20:21:02] <LeelooMinai> Maybe sometimes in the future I will consider designing such a thing, unless I will have another weird ideas and become interested in, I don't know, cave exploring.
[20:21:30] <Cromaglious> cnc is cheaper than spelunking by far!
[20:22:15] <Cromaglious> but you get better exercise spelunking
[20:22:19] <LeelooMinai> Right, well, I don't leave home, so maybe that's unlikely, but something else - I already plan on some music gear:)
[20:22:23] <SpeedEvil> Cross the two, and get tunnel-boring
[20:23:08] <LeelooMinai> Right, I could start boring a tunnel in the basement in the hope of eventually hitting a cave
[20:23:46] <LeelooMinai> Or sewer pipe, more likely
[20:23:52] <_methods> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FDimla_Dimla%2Fpublication%2F223163422_Sensor_signals_for_tool-wear_monitoring_in_metal_cutting_operationsa_review_of_methods%2Flinks%2F54de16b50cf2814662ed01b5.pdf&ei=-gD-VPjhG8OegwSbqYRY&usg=AFQjCNHG_VcMROZWnrjmsFE_twassILrsg&bvm=bv.87611401,d.eXY&cad=rja
[20:23:55] <Rab> I think the same information could be inferred from an accelerometer correlated with spindle position.
[20:24:12] <_methods> tool breakage sensor paper
[20:24:20] <_methods> tool wear monitoring
[20:25:02] <LeelooMinai> Kind of old:)
[20:25:06] <renesis> cutting force i thought you could just track motor current?
[20:25:09] <_methods> um yeah
[20:25:11] <Rab> Cutting force presents as an imbalance on the tool, right?
[20:25:17] <_methods> it's been around for awhile lol
[20:25:23] <Rab> renesis, that doesn't give you directionality.
[20:25:53] <renesis> you want like, lateral forces on the x and y?
[20:26:34] <Rab> Not personally, but yeah.
[20:26:53] <renesis> i was just thinking bouncy needle like on machine centers but i guess we are repurposing strain gauges?
[20:27:02] <Rab> Z is probably just as important.
[20:27:26] <LeelooMinai> also, monitoring the current does not give you actual forces - you need to calculate them somehow
[20:27:38] <renesis> you need to calc everything somehow
[20:28:03] <LeelooMinai> Sure, but gauges do it in much more direct and reliable fasion
[20:28:15] <LeelooMinai> Easier to calibrate them too
[20:28:21] <renesis> right but i dont know how to use them to measure cutting torque
[20:28:35] <renesis> and for machine flex, kind of seems very app specific
[20:29:09] <renesis> lasers
[20:29:46] <renesis> mount to headstock to see deflection on the spindle on XY, and who knows how you get one in for Z
[20:30:59] <renesis> mirrors
[20:31:36] <LeelooMinai> And smoke
[20:32:02] <Cromaglious> but not the majic smoke in the electronic, ordinaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaary smoke from a generator
[20:32:11] <renesis> i guess mounted to table somehow to see force on the total machine
[20:32:49] <renesis> we had to change from magic smoke to low sodium fairy dust for rohs2
[20:34:08] <Rab> Hmmm, you could make a special workholding pallet instead of modifying the machine.
[20:34:41] <renesis> i kind of think with a feedback machine you just monitor the pid loops, all the data is already there
[20:34:44] <renesis> no?
[20:35:42] <renesis> you have to seperate out machine friction forces and cutting forces, which maybe requires consistent recal, but kind of seems proportional to what its doing already
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[20:36:08] <Rab> That's what I thought, but then I realized you'll also pick up spurious stuff from your bearings, screws, and motor drivetrain.
[20:36:27] <renesis> like, you would have to map friction if you wanted it to be accurate over the whole range and how useful would depend on how in tune your machine stays
[20:36:34] <renesis> right
[20:37:22] <renesis> but i dont think there would be any way for a strain gauge to more accurate diff the machine friction and cutting forces
[20:37:46] <Rab> I don't forsee joy from trying to pick cutting forces out of that morass.
[20:37:51] <renesis> but you could automate mapping the friction somehow
[20:38:11] <Rab> Sure, if you measure at the toolhead or at the work none of the other stuff matters.
[20:38:16] <renesis> yeah but for cutting forces, you can just track a spindle pid
[20:38:39] <renesis> my guess is thats how the little bouncing needles work on machine centers
[20:39:18] <renesis> rab: no mean like you job all the axis at different speeds and map out how much motor force was required
[20:39:26] <renesis> and then you just assume consistency
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[20:39:45] <renesis> or you can diff the lasers mounted to the head and the one on the table and eliminate alot of machine flex related stuff
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[20:40:37] <Rab> renesis, yeah, but balls circulate, wear and dirt are continous processes.
[20:40:53] <renesis> but yeah doing a fixture to measure non rotational cutting forces seems like it would introduce error proportional to the range you were trying to measure
[20:41:05] <renesis> like, youre adding the slop to measure the slop
[20:41:25] <renesis> rab: right i dont think this would be a 1% thing, its be like a 10-20% thing
[20:41:35] <Rab> I think it compromises machine rigidity, but I don't know too much about strain gages. You might be able to measure very small deflections.
[20:41:47] <Rab> Or use piezo pressure transducers or something.
[20:41:51] <renesis> yeah they can
[20:42:08] <renesis> most the ones ive used dont noticably deflect
[20:42:30] <Rab> It would definitely be interesting to watch servo feedback during the cutting process.
[20:43:06] <Rab> But I'm guessing that won't tell you anything novel that can't be calculated in advance from 100 years of machining practice.
[20:43:36] <renesis> pretty sure its used to judge tool life
[20:44:23] <renesis> well, like it is manually speaking but i think some machines can setup flags for tools based on cutting torque
[20:45:35] <Rab> I am imagining a scenario where a chip gently binds in a linear rail and the force feedback system, interpreting that as imminent tool breakage, stops the job. And then the operator becomes filled with rage trying to find out why the job is failing and what's wrong with the machine.
[20:46:05] <renesis> right i dont think youd be able to tune it so fine
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[20:46:23] <renesis> like if you see a 50% change, do something, otherwise just log it or something
[20:46:31] <Rab> I don't think it's useful if you can't.
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[20:47:42] <renesis> the lateral force stuff, but rotational torque im totally comfortable with some algorithm calling a tool worn based on torque
[20:48:00] <renesis> and ideally the machine doesnt stop it just uses the spare tool in the changer
[20:48:24] <SpeedEvil> renesis: Well, ideally, it resharpens it
[20:48:31] <renesis> like, the time variable on the tools isnt so you know when they die, its so you know to replace them before they do
[20:48:50] <renesis> speedevil: ideally it would just make the tool from carbide blanks as needed
[20:48:54] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:49:09] <renesis> some of those tool grinders are so sexy
[20:49:51] <renesis> tooling companies at westec either show up with a big giant hass, or some little automated grinder thing
[20:49:58] <renesis> haas
[20:50:30] <SpeedEvil> yeah - something that can do ~50mm tools would be quite adequate fro most I suspect
[20:50:31] <renesis> every company that isnt a haas competitor has a haas there, must feel shitty to be a competitor
[20:50:50] <SpeedEvil> has to be
[20:51:09] <renesis> those giant permanent install centers, a little grinder for that wouldnt even seem like a huge deal haha
[20:51:50] <SpeedEvil> Especially if it can be done off-line
[20:52:18] <renesis> yeah thats what i was thinking, off to the side in the toolchanger 'room'
[20:53:03] <renesis> could probably do something pretty compact for lathe tools
[20:53:58] <renesis> like, lathe sticks a tool into a pencil sharpener type hole, custom profile pops out
[20:55:13] <SpeedEvil> Sort-of-on-topic - http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=&SearchText=8mm+pulley - for this sort of class of stuff - toothed pulleys - what is the maximum power that can be put through these? I'm pondering making a tiny scale model of a tablesaw - using instead of the 450mm blade I'm eventuallly going to use, a 120mm one, made with skate bearings, and was wondering about toothed belts for drive
[20:55:36] <SpeedEvil> I guess the quality of the belt is a major factor
[20:58:14] <Rab> SpeedEvil, I'm sure it is. I was just researching maximum pulley speed, and Gates and other belt mfgs have helpful tables of transport limits.
[20:59:08] * SpeedEvil wishes ebay vendors would have helpful tables.
[20:59:12] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:00:03] <Rab> SpeedEvil, the name-brand belts aren't especially expensive.
[21:00:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.gates.com/products/industrial/industrial-belts/synchronous-belts/powergrip-htd-belts I guess is a reasonable starting point
[21:00:17] <SpeedEvil> For 'can it be done at all'
[21:04:25] <Rab> Might want to include a shear key, or have a good idea of what happens throughout the system if the blade locks up.
[21:05:25] <Rab> Poly-V belt might be more desirable.
[21:06:02] <Rab> ("Micro-rib"?)
[21:06:36] <SpeedEvil> True.
[21:06:58] <SpeedEvil> I guess first I should actually find out operating RPM and torque
[21:07:17] <Cromaglious> ok 2 port USB 3.0 PCIe card showed up as well as my touch probes
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[21:10:12] <SpeedEvil> Doh.
[21:10:43] <SpeedEvil> I actually have a belt of the approximately identical power rating and appropriate size on my teeny bandsaw.
[21:10:49] <SpeedEvil> Which would indicate it's possible.
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[21:20:46] <furrywolf> yay hantavirus.
[21:20:58] * furrywolf is having great fun cleaning out crap left under the porch by previous residents
[21:22:09] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: have you recently moved, or is this the same place with the water-stealing neighbour?
[21:22:42] <furrywolf> same place
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[21:23:08] <furrywolf> said neighbor was forcefully removed a while ago, however.
[21:25:38] <SpeedEvil> yay!
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[21:40:39] <Cromaglious> Precitech gage head bunches of wire in side it
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[21:57:14] <Swapper> anyone here that runs VFD over modbus ?
[21:57:15] <Swapper> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
[21:57:27] <Swapper> Altivar
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[22:11:43] <Swapper> cant seem to compile or run the atv_vfd compinent
[22:11:44] <Swapper> ./atv_vfd: error while loading shared libraries: libemchal.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[22:12:05] <Swapper> The required program "comp" could not be found
[22:12:07] <Swapper> Makefile:7: *** Required files for building components not present. Install emc2-dev. Stop.
[22:12:22] <Swapper> the first 2 are trying to run the precompile
[22:12:28] <Swapper> the other is trying to do a "make"
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[22:28:54] <dirty_d> hmm, i thought i remember being able to pause a nc program and jog then resume
[22:28:57] <dirty_d> cant do it
[22:29:24] <dirty_d> need to be able to to zero the tool against the work
[22:30:41] <Swapper> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Jog-While-Paused
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[22:33:26] <dirty_d> hmm
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[22:34:30] <dirty_d> Swapper, this still isnt in the stable build?
[22:34:41] <Swapper> dont think so
[22:34:44] <Swapper> not using it
[22:34:55] <Swapper> but its not been the default atleast
[22:35:49] <Swapper> usualy people make several programs per tool
[22:36:04] <Swapper> and not as in mach where you can jog and reset
[22:36:07] <Swapper> in the same program
[22:37:44] <dirty_d> Swapper, you mean instead of one big program with tool changes, just a program for each tool?
[22:37:51] <Swapper> yep
[22:37:59] <Swapper> works totaly ok
[22:38:05] <dirty_d> hmm, easy enough, ill just do that
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[22:38:24] <Swapper> yea its that easy :)
[22:39:20] <dirty_d> i need an electronic height guage or something too
[22:39:26] <dirty_d> its kinda annoying chaning tools as it is
[22:39:48] <dirty_d> is that what people without an atc or indexable tool holders use?
[22:39:50] <Swapper> What sort of spindle do you use?
[22:39:58] <dirty_d> its just an r8 spindle
[22:40:08] <Swapper> TTS would be the best then
[22:40:15] <Swapper> then you get preset hight
[22:40:19] <Swapper> and easy changing of tools
[22:40:35] <dirty_d> i was thinking about that. they used to sell bootleg ones on ebay, i havent seen any lately though
[22:40:58] <Swapper> There are loads that they make new
[22:41:06] <Swapper> i think i have 10 of them for my old X2
[22:41:12] <Swapper> The new one uses BT30 though
[22:41:27] <dirty_d> where do you find them besides straight from tormach?
[22:41:37] <Swapper> Ebay
[22:41:42] <Swapper> way cheaper
[22:41:59] <Swapper> the collet i got from https://littlemachineshop.com/
[22:42:06] <Swapper> cause thats special
[22:42:23] <dirty_d> yea, im not seeing anything, what did you search for?
[22:42:34] <Swapper> sec ill check my history
[22:42:48] <dirty_d> tts, tormach tool system, tormach tool holder dont show anything on the first page at least
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[22:48:31] <Swapper> http://www.ebay.com/itm/wholesales-10pcs-C3-4-ER16-1-38-Straight-collet-chuck-holder-CNC-Milling-Lathe-/251213816757?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7d82a3b5
[22:48:35] <Swapper> there we go
[22:49:42] <andypugh> Swapper: If you are on a newer build then “comp” is now “halcompile”
[22:49:58] <Swapper> im on 28
[22:50:00] <Swapper> 2.8
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[22:50:22] <andypugh> Yeah, try halcompile — install
[22:52:15] <Swapper> atv$ halcompile atv_vfd.c
[22:52:16] <Swapper> Unrecognized file type for mode preprocess: 'atv_vfd.c'
[22:52:23] <Swapper> dont get it
[22:53:05] <andypugh> If it’s a .c rather than .comp then you might have to read the docs :-)
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[22:54:08] <Swapper> its seems that the altivar is broken on newer but i might be wrong
[22:54:12] <Swapper> no docs
[22:54:18] <Swapper> to read
[22:54:31] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/hal/comp.html#sec:Compiling-realtime-components
[22:54:40] <Swapper> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
[22:54:43] <Swapper> seems outdated
[22:55:38] <dirty_d> Swapper, thanks
[22:55:39] <andypugh> it seems likely that your .c is userspace not realtime, so halcompile doesn’t know what to do with it.
[22:55:55] <Swapper> yea its userspace
[22:56:04] <Swapper> i did a --compile and it ddnt like me
[22:56:39] <Swapper> Compiling userspace components outside the source tree This only works for .comp files, not for .c files.
[22:56:48] <andypugh> Hmm, but it looks to be a userspace .comp and that should be OK
[22:57:04] <Swapper> yea i think its a userspace
[22:57:16] <Swapper> loadusr -W vfd.pyloadusr -W vfd.pyloadusr -W vfd.py
[22:57:25] <Swapper> then i has to be a userspace
[22:57:35] <dirty_d> Swapper, C3/4 is what they call that now?
[22:57:35] <Swapper> but i cant compile it on a newer system it seems
[22:58:08] <Swapper> dirty_d: the straigt shank is3/4" and they dont whant to upset tormach to much :)
[22:58:12] <Swapper> so they proly call it that
[22:58:22] <dirty_d> ahh
[22:58:33] <Swapper> its not fully compatible, since it dosnt have the toolchanger groove
[22:59:13] <Swapper> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-DARKON-ER32-ATC-Low-Profile-Precision-Chucks-/261233963561?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item3cd2c1f229
[22:59:18] <Swapper> Darkon is more compatible
[22:59:23] <Swapper> with toolchanger i think
[22:59:50] <Swapper> http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-x-DARKON-ER20-ATC-STD-Profile-Precision-Chucks-/261234340276?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item3cd2c7b1b4
[23:00:05] <Swapper> if u notice it has the groobe
[23:00:07] <Swapper> groove
[23:00:15] <dirty_d> hmm, yea
[23:00:17] <Swapper> for the tormach toolchanger fingers
[23:00:24] <dirty_d> just thinking what er size id want
[23:00:32] <dirty_d> either er20 or er25
[23:00:35] <Swapper> i run loads of ER16
[23:00:45] <dirty_d> i wouldnt really need bigger than a 5/8" endmill
[23:00:51] <Swapper> and my mill is quite befy, but running a lot of alu
[23:01:28] <Swapper> i have ER16 (2-3 sets of collets) and ER32 (full set of collets) and one ER40 on the way in with 1 collet
[23:01:37] <Swapper> for a big 25mm shanked cutter
[23:01:55] <dirty_d> sounds like a big machine
[23:02:02] <dirty_d> mines only like 300lbs
[23:02:02] <Swapper> ER16 is good since the holder lets the flood coolant in
[23:02:23] <Swapper> ER20 would not be that much bigger
[23:02:36] <Swapper> so ER16 or 20 i would say
[23:02:44] <dirty_d> im just looking at this http://www.techniksusa.com/metal/cnaerpci.htm?gclid=Cj0KEQjwifWnBRCB5PT57KSVw-kBEiQASV7aRFaUYISDtzgQ8_cXWsEAI6g1dyBMCydp3eIcqYEJYJkaAhPW8P8HAQ
[23:02:47] <Swapper> and get some sets of ER collets for that size
[23:03:00] <Swapper> so you can have like 2 mills of the same shank size
[23:03:11] <dirty_d> for er16 the max size is 13/32, but i dunno if its just that companies specs or if this is like a standard
[23:03:48] <Swapper> yea the nut maxes out at 10mm
[23:03:54] <Swapper> sorry im metric
[23:03:57] <dirty_d> ahh
[23:04:13] <Swapper> after that theres not more collet left :)
[23:04:35] <Swapper> those collets would be real nice, i have gotten mine cheap of ebay.
[23:04:56] <Swapper> Get some quality ones and then get a cheap ebay set and compare, you can mount drills in the cheap crappy ones
[23:05:10] <Swapper> since drilling is not as important to have the perfect runout
[23:05:41] <Swapper> and use the nice set for the mills you use often and need good precision
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[23:06:18] <dirty_d> hmm, i dont see any with the tts type groove in er20
[23:08:59] <dirty_d> meh, er25 isnt much more
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[23:09:29] <dirty_d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/new-10pcs-C3-4-ER25-1-38L-Straight-collet-chuck-holder-/251221714921?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7dfb27e9
[23:09:35] <dirty_d> ouch, did not see that shipping
[23:10:23] <Swapper> Yea shipping is a bitch, and for me atleast customs
[23:10:45] <Swapper> when ordering the big packets it always gets stuck in customs and have to pay
[23:11:09] <Swapper> The BT30 holders i got now i have ordered 2 and 2 then they passes customs :)
[23:12:21] <dirty_d> its probably not worth trying to make them huh?
[23:12:28] <Swapper> nah
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[23:12:40] <dirty_d> i doubt id me able to make them to enough precision
[23:12:43] <Swapper> need special grinder and stuff to get the same quality
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[23:13:00] <Swapper> and material and hardening
[23:13:04] <dirty_d> yea
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[23:13:12] <Swapper> its doable to make some holders for simple jobs
[23:13:20] <Swapper> like drills and arbours
[23:13:35] <Swapper> else its not worth the time
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[23:14:03] <dirty_d> hmmm
[23:15:56] <dirty_d> lol, i like the ms paint dimensions http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-10pcs-C3-4-ER20A-44L-Collet-Chuck-Straight-Collet-Chuck-CNC-Milling-Lathe-/260948117381?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc1b84785
[23:16:16] <dirty_d> that might work in mine
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[23:16:47] <Swapper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQCoiKVddMc
[23:16:50] <Swapper> my new toy :)
[23:17:00] <dirty_d> pretty sure this is my spindle https://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/90/91/c7/c2/75/IMG_20130916_193752_preview_featured.jpg
[23:17:34] <dirty_d> whoa, id make a huge mess with that
[23:17:36] <Swapper> but that will not have repetable z hight
[23:17:48] <dirty_d> right now i have WD-40 and a compressor air gun, lol
[23:17:54] <Swapper> you need the ones with the collar
[23:18:20] <dirty_d> oh yea crap, that edge would just hit the R8 collet right?
[23:18:29] <Swapper> yea
[23:18:40] <Swapper> and you whant it to hit the spindle nose
[23:18:43] <Swapper> so it repeats
[23:18:45] <dirty_d> i was visualizing the end of the collet being inside the spindle
[23:18:50] <Swapper> the collet will draw it up against it
[23:18:54] <dirty_d> or is it just even?
[23:19:02] <andypugh> Nice LED ring there
[23:19:12] <dirty_d> its not mine, just found it on google images
[23:19:18] <dirty_d> but thats a good idea
[23:19:44] <dirty_d> and i do have an led strip
[23:19:55] <dirty_d> RGB, but...
[23:20:11] <Swapper> make it watertight :)
[23:20:21] <andypugh> Tormach TTS copies the idea of HSK with a combined radial and axial contact.
[23:20:22] <Swapper> ill have to hit the bed
[23:20:26] <Swapper> cu arround
[23:20:52] <Swapper> gn8
[23:20:57] <andypugh> HSK does it with very accurate tolerancing. TTS does it with friction. Franky I think TTS is cleverer.
[23:21:01] <dirty_d> later
[23:22:55] <dirty_d> hmm, i wonder about the official setscrew tts holders
[23:23:04] <dirty_d> i feel like there would be more runout
[23:24:21] <dirty_d> and damn, the shank on this 1/2" shank end mill is actually 0.502"
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[23:27:11] <dirty_d> 0.002" sounds like a pretty unacceptable tolerance on a tool
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[23:33:10] <roycroft> why?
[23:33:34] <roycroft> a 1/2"collet should be able to handle a shank 0.002" oversize with no problem
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[23:34:02] <roycroft> now if the cutter diameter were +0.002" that would be a different matter
[23:34:15] <dirty_d> roycroft, i meant with the set screw type holder
[23:34:20] <roycroft> oh
[23:34:23] <roycroft> well those aren't accurate anyway
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[23:34:27] <dirty_d> id imagine the hole would be like +/-0.0002"
[23:34:34] <roycroft> might as well just use a drill chuck
[23:34:39] <dirty_d> eek
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[23:35:27] <dirty_d> i should worry about this after i actually start making stuff
[23:36:19] <roycroft> and get yourself a set of proper collets for your spindle :)
[23:36:22] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: ever make customs screens with http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Gscreen?
[23:36:34] <roycroft> especially if this is a small machine like a mill-drill
[23:37:19] <CaptHindsight> looking for something to modify for screens used to control machines other than machine tools
[23:37:45] <dirty_d> right now i just have a munch of r8 collets
[23:37:53] <dirty_d> but that means re-zeroing with every tool change
[23:38:14] <roycroft> that's the drawback of using collets, yes
[23:38:30] <roycroft> but the tradoff is greater rigidity, and therefore, less vibration and less runout
[23:38:37] <dirty_d> if i had one of those electronic height probes, it woulnt be so bad
[23:38:48] <dirty_d> linuxcnc has some type of module for that right?
[23:39:00] <dirty_d> along with edge finding hopefully
[23:39:05] <roycroft> yes and yes
[23:39:13] <dirty_d> good to know
[23:39:50] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: No, I have not used Gscreen. I like the concept, but my machines are either so normal that Axis / Touchy works, or so wierd that a custom GladeVCP interface makes sense.
[23:39:51] <dirty_d> i was trying to figure out soem type of electronic circuit that would just be able to detect when a regular tool touched the workpiece, but nothing obvious comes to mind
[23:40:01] <dirty_d> although im sure some measurable quantity changes
[23:40:10] <dirty_d> like capacitance or indictance or something
[23:40:14] <dirty_d> inductance*
[23:40:25] <andypugh> Conduction normally changes :-(
[23:40:33] <andypugh> I mean :-)
[23:40:35] <dirty_d> very very little though
[23:40:36] <dirty_d> right?
[23:40:42] <andypugh> It depends.
[23:40:54] <dirty_d> i mean the bearings in the spindle are in constant contact
[23:40:58] <dirty_d> along with all the ways
[23:40:59] <andypugh> Carbide conducts
[23:41:06] <dirty_d> so id think it would be a very low resistance path
[23:41:28] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I often have things like 2-axis gantry robots or single axis rotary tables with motion synchronized to nozzles as it rotates
[23:41:43] <dirty_d> but possibly much higher inductance before the tool is touching
[23:41:44] <roycroft> you get a block that's precisely 1" high and is insulated from the mill, with a metal top surface
[23:41:49] <roycroft> you touch off on that to set your height
[23:42:02] <dirty_d> roycroft, plastic good enough?
[23:42:07] <andypugh> dirty_d: Folk often touch-off to an unsulated plate.
[23:42:35] <dirty_d> it must deform a little, but not much i wouldnt think
[23:42:36] <roycroft> if it's a thermally stable plastic it can be good enough
[23:42:48] <dirty_d> especially if you go really slow
[23:43:03] <roycroft> it should not deform at all
[23:43:07] <andypugh> I either use a touch-probe or roll a dowel under the tool, so haven’t looked at is very carefully.
[23:43:14] <roycroft> unless you're doing it manually
[23:43:29] <alex4nder> also what are your tolerances
[23:43:30] <dirty_d> ive just been using a 0.004" shim that i slide between the work and tool till it starts binding
[23:43:38] <roycroft> but if you're using a cnc controller it will register the height instantly when it touches the plate, without having to go any farther
[23:43:57] <dirty_d> alex4nder, well interpolated holes are usually +/- 0.001"
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[23:46:00] <dirty_d> i guess i could just make one
[23:51:55] <alex4nder> dirty_d: that should be pretty easy to get setup for
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[23:52:57] <dirty_d> hmm, double sided pcb would work
[23:53:13] <dirty_d> and i think i have some
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[23:54:24] <alex4nder> what do you normally use for touchoff?
[23:55:54] <dirty_d> just a shim of known thickness
[23:55:59] <dirty_d> until it starts binding
[23:56:41] <dirty_d> hmm, well http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/171672952249?lpid=82&chn=ps
[23:56:55] <dirty_d> if thats at all accurate, then thats not a bad deal
[23:57:58] <Cromaglious> ok I have 2 Precitech lever gage heads now I have to build a circuit to read them
[23:59:47] <dirty_d> say what now?