Back
[00:00:12] <pcw_home> stability
[00:00:46] <zeeshan> well in that w_n is at 15 rad/s
[00:00:53] <zeeshan> phase angle didnt do anything fancy there
[00:00:58] <pcw_home> at some point the phase lag is enough so you get positive feedback
[00:01:06] <zeeshan> ah
[00:01:06] <zeeshan> haha
[00:01:20] <pcw_home> (so gain had better be below 1 at that point)
[00:02:16] <bobo__> No make it +2 , and a movie
[00:02:44] <zeeshan> troll
[00:02:44] <zeeshan> :D
[00:03:13] <zeeshan> Tom_itx:
[00:04:32] <andypugh> Tom_itx: yes
[00:04:35] <zeeshan> encoder.xx.phase-Z <= hm2_xxxxx.encoder.index
[00:04:53] <zeeshan> encoder.xx.index-enable <=> motion.spindle-index-enable
[00:04:57] <andypugh> Tom_itx: You might need a 3-way net on that pin
[00:05:08] <zeeshan> something like that i think
[00:05:25] <zeeshan> actually i dont think you need encoder
[00:05:33] <zeeshan> you can do it directly interface it to hm2
[00:05:40] <pcw_home> the index pin is only connected externally
[00:06:13] <pcw_home> the motion and encoder index enables connect in hal
[00:07:57] <zeeshan> bobo__: do you still have the drawing open?
[00:08:44] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: mine says: hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.index-enable <=> motion.spindle-index-enable
[00:10:08] <Tom_itx> and does that link take care of resetting the index each rev?
[00:10:50] <Tom_itx> as i recall watching the index pulse i only got one pulse and read that it needs to be reset each pulse
[00:11:19] <zeeshan> try it
[00:11:22] <zeeshan> rotate it by hand :)
[00:11:42] <Tom_itx> unfortunately the spindle isn't on the machine atm
[00:11:47] <bobo__> zeeshan yes on Dwg.
[00:11:48] <pcw_home> index enable is "funny"
[00:11:49] <pcw_home> motion sets it and the encoder clears it when index is hit
[00:12:00] <zeeshan> bobo__: help me understand it
[00:12:00] <zeeshan> im lost
[00:12:01] <zeeshan> lol
[00:12:04] <Tom_itx> i noticed it was an IO bit
[00:12:08] <Tom_itx> not in or out but both
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[00:12:19] <pcw_home> Yes one of the few I/O bits
[00:13:21] <Tom_itx> i need to get this back on the machine now that i'm nearly done rewiring the box
[00:14:08] <bobo__> zeeshan the lost being lead by the blind . if you can stand it ---i will try
[00:14:10] <Tom_itx> i can tell the stock sherline spindle drive wasn't meant to support reverse
[00:14:13] <zeeshan> hahaha
[00:14:14] <Tom_itx> however it does work
[00:14:20] <zeeshan> i think i need to talk it out
[00:14:54] <zeeshan> uploading a pic with color
[00:15:20] <bobo__> zeeshan that rightside is complex
[00:15:30] <Tom_itx> zeeshan if i rotate it by hand it's relying on more than just the index pulse
[00:15:34] <robinsz> im not sure I am quite understanding the "moveoff" component
[00:16:03] <robinsz> it looks like it enables you to adjust offsets when the machine is paused, from soem sort of GUI
[00:16:04] <Tom_itx> robinsz did you see the samples in the source?
[00:16:15] <robinsz> I saw the manpage
[00:16:30] <Tom_itx> iirc in one branch there were some samples
[00:16:49] <robinsz> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/moveoff.html
[00:17:28] <robinsz> I dont need the GUI part of it
[00:17:43] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/wZtMkQ0.jpg
[00:17:45] <zeeshan> bobo__: COLOR PIc
[00:17:53] <zeeshan> first things first
[00:17:55] <bobo__> zeeshan must be (right side ) for allowing shaft to rotate and provide some radial
[00:17:57] <zeeshan> the grey shaft
[00:18:03] <zeeshan> i think the blue thing is screwed onto the grey shaft
[00:18:06] <zeeshan> so they're one piece.
[00:18:30] <zeeshan> so if i grabbed the left collar nut,
[00:18:43] <zeeshan> and was superman, i could make the springs compress if i pulled hard enough
[00:19:10] <zeeshan> the yellow area is where the hydraulic fluid builds pressure
[00:19:17] <zeeshan> the green thing is the piston
[00:19:29] <zeeshan> which pushes on the blue thing
[00:19:40] <zeeshan> (would be the same as me pulling on the collar nut on the left)
[00:20:16] <bobo__> yes
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[00:21:21] <zeeshan> now the question is
[00:21:25] <zeeshan> if i remove the pink thing
[00:21:35] <zeeshan> i'd think the collar on the left
[00:21:48] <zeeshan> would stop the springs from launching the piston in my face? :)
[00:22:21] <zeeshan> ive had a damn valve spring launch near my face before
[00:22:23] <bobo__> the Dwg gives a distance "Hub 5.8" travel
[00:22:32] <zeeshan> yea
[00:22:37] <zeeshan> thats in the open position
[00:22:38] <zeeshan> i'd think.
[00:23:06] <zeeshan> the german translation is:
[00:23:13] <zeeshan> "hube set only in loose position"
[00:23:22] <zeeshan> no idea what that means
[00:24:05] <zeeshan> the only logical thing i can come up with is.. if you had the whole assembly apart
[00:24:32] <zeeshan> you'd hand tighten that left collar nut till it was snug
[00:24:34] <bobo__> You don't know if something has broken or not -----keep face out of path
[00:24:42] <zeeshan> then you'd wanna keep tightening it till you displaced it 5.8mm
[00:24:59] <zeeshan> face will be out of path
[00:25:07] <zeeshan> but idont wanna ruin the threads on the right pink lid
[00:25:19] <zeeshan> they look like fine threads
[00:25:26] <zeeshan> which don't take much abuse
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[00:25:50] <zeeshan> and i know something is broke
[00:25:55] <zeeshan> cause when i shake the cylinder, it rattles :)
[00:26:00] <zeeshan> might be the spring packs
[00:26:19] <pcw_home> how many lbs now?
[00:26:25] <zeeshan> about 300
[00:26:34] <zeeshan> should be 10x that according to spec manufacturer gave me
[00:26:39] <bobo__> make a plug ? fine thread the O.D. --3/8 I.D.
[00:27:16] * zeeshan is getting tired of manual drawbar
[00:27:22] * zeeshan needs hydraulics!
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[00:27:36] <pcw_home> only ~75 ft lbs, 22 pistol category
[00:27:50] <zeeshan> lol
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[00:28:19] <pcw_home> 750 if correct about .357
[00:28:32] <zeeshan> are you trying to scare me? :D
[00:28:37] <pcw_home> yes
[00:28:40] <zeeshan> haha
[00:29:05] <bobo__> what holds grey shaft to blue colla ?r
[00:29:17] <zeeshan> bobo__: that is the "if"
[00:29:22] <zeeshan> i _think_ its threaded on
[00:29:26] <zeeshan> its the only logical thing.
[00:29:29] <andypugh> robinsz: If you want to use “moveoff” then you do need the GUI. All it does is insert offsets between the machine commanded position and actual position. It’s a hack to placate those who said that they needed to be able to retract the tool on pause.
[00:29:56] <robinsz> then thats not goingto work for me
[00:30:07] <robinsz> I need the following:
[00:30:11] <robinsz> press pause button
[00:30:17] <robinsz> tool retracts
[00:30:17] <zeeshan> im curious if 95.100.212.5.1
[00:30:19] <zeeshan> what tha tis
[00:30:22] <robinsz> spindle stops
[00:30:31] <zeeshan> it looks like some dowels that are placed between the blue thing and the piston
[00:31:08] <bobo__> yes
[00:31:09] <robinsz> when I press resume, spindle runs up, z returns to last position, motion re starts
[00:31:14] <robinsz> its standard on routers
[00:31:28] <Tom_itx> robinsz i think those samples are in rob's branch
[00:31:32] <andypugh> robinsz: Like this:
http://youtu.be/mSx2zIUWVzQ
[00:31:49] <robinsz> Tom_itx, URL?
[00:31:58] <Tom_itx> lemme see if i can find it
[00:32:02] <robinsz> andypugh, yeah, I dont need that GUI bit
[00:32:23] <zeeshan> andypugh: how does it know how much to retract?
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[00:32:34] <zeeshan> and that angle
[00:32:39] <andypugh> I can’t remember.
[00:32:46] <andypugh> It was last year
[00:33:04] <zeeshan> cause that would crash dependong on the part
[00:33:04] <bobo__> piston moves dowel --dowel moves blue part ----dowel is hard and less surface area
[00:33:06] <zeeshan> *depending
[00:33:20] <zeeshan> bobo__: that makes sense
[00:33:27] <andypugh> I think I took a patch from Machinekit, applied it to LinuxCNC and set fixed offsets in X and Z
[00:33:46] <zeeshan> ah
[00:33:53] <zeeshan> jogging during pause would be nice ..
[00:33:58] <zeeshan> especially if you snapped a carbide insert :p
[00:34:09] <andypugh> Yeah. Now tell us how to do it
[00:34:17] <zeeshan> if i really wanted it
[00:34:19] <zeeshan> i'd figure it out
[00:34:25] <zeeshan> so that tells you my intentions :-)
[00:35:12] <zeeshan> what i want is your macros working on my lathe
[00:35:12] <zeeshan> !
[00:35:18] <andypugh> This article on the Wiki describes the problem.
[00:35:19] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WhyManualWhilePausedIsHard
[00:35:45] <robinsz> I dont need manual while paused, thankfully
[00:35:52] <pcw_home> seems like you would have to replay an unknowable amount of leading gcode
[00:35:59] <robinsz> just a simple router retract
[00:36:11] <robinsz> all the way up to the top of the Z axis
[00:36:14] <pcw_home> simpler problem
[00:36:20] <zeeshan> looks like andypugh's method would work for you
[00:36:23] <andypugh> There has been an increase in the degree of change to the code that people are now prepared to try (especially in Machinekit where mah seems happy to consider wholesale re-writes of entire sections of the code)
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[00:37:35] <andypugh> robinsz: In that case I think that Moveoff will work for you. Just setp the required retract and when you pause the fixed offset is applied.
[00:37:40] <bobo__> zeeshan dowels might help for allowing piston to follow it's bore vers shaft axis
[00:37:58] <zeeshan> bobo__: okay that makes a LOT more sense
[00:38:01] <zeeshan> they are guides
[00:38:11] <zeeshan> that would mean
[00:38:24] <zeeshan> they might be pressed into the thing that attaches to the blue thing
[00:38:30] <andypugh> Fixed-retract is also not too hard with offset and limit3.
[00:38:32] <zeeshan> er
[00:38:34] <zeeshan> slide
[00:38:35] <zeeshan> not pressed
[00:38:35] <atom1> andypugh, do you know where dewey put his examples for moveoff?
[00:38:45] <andypugh> I have no idea.
[00:38:49] <robinsz> andypugh, I just need to understand how to configure it
[00:39:00] <atom1> i had them but am unable to locate now
[00:39:13] <bobo__> I hope they slide
[00:39:20] <pcw_home> moveoff is part of 2.7
[00:39:31] <zeeshan> looks like 2.7
[00:39:33] <robinsz> I think I found the 2.7 source
[00:39:34] <zeeshan> will be one fancy upgrade
[00:39:38] <pcw_home> so probably in the config examples
[00:39:39] <zeeshan> Trajector planner
[00:39:43] <zeeshan> move while paulse !
[00:39:46] <zeeshan> so much fancy stuff
[00:40:02] <pcw_home> uspace
[00:40:05] <atom1> robinsz, i'd suggest checking out dewey's branch and see if he put some examples there. iirc that's where i saw them
[00:40:19] <andypugh> I can’t find that branch
[00:40:20] <atom1> those would be early on in his testing
[00:40:20] <robinsz> URL?
[00:40:29] <atom1> i'm still looking
[00:40:31] * zeeshan wants 2.7 stable
[00:40:54] <bobo__> Good fancy stuff. great
[00:41:00] <robinsz> im not even sure how or where you download 2.7 from
[00:41:09] <zeeshan> github
[00:41:25] <robinsz> URL?
[00:41:27] <andypugh> robinsz: Demos:
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=configs/sim/axis/moveoff;h=96124ffc5851b499482a25a6837b29d744dc6035;hb=refs/heads/2.7
[00:41:36] <zeeshan> https://github.com/jepler/linuxcnc-mirror
[00:41:50] <pcw_home> if zeeshan wants 2.7 stable, zeeshan should run 2.7 pre3 and check for bugs
[00:41:55] <andypugh> robinsz: You can have 2.7 as binaries from the buildbot
[00:41:57] <atom1> thanks andy
[00:42:09] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i intend to!
[00:42:16] <zeeshan> asap machine is running 100%
[00:42:37] <zeeshan> i was looking through the new tp code
[00:42:41] <zeeshan> rob has done a lot of work.
[00:42:42] <andypugh> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
[00:42:45] <zeeshan> didn't realize how much work it was
[00:43:07] <robinsz> andypugh, um ... ive not looked at this for at least 5 years, I understand the words are english ... but the meaning is currently opaque
[00:43:07] <zeeshan> i was curious to see his credentials
[00:43:09] <andypugh> (I think you might have to use a bit of guesswork to get the right apt line)
[00:43:15] <zeeshan> he's got a proper background :)
[00:43:15] <atom1> andypugh, is master 2.7?
[00:43:53] <pcw_home> master is 2.8 something
[00:44:02] <andypugh> atom1: No, master ihas stuff that won’t be in 2.7
[00:44:19] <robinsz> ah, OK, that6 makes some sense now :)
[00:44:52] <andypugh> robinsz: The meaning of which of my statements are less than pellucid?
[00:45:17] <robinsz> the URL to buildbot wiki page helped a lot
[00:45:47] <robinsz> thats kinda neat and organised :)
[00:46:48] <andypugh> Right, time to sleep for me.
[00:46:50] <andypugh> Night all
[00:46:53] <zeeshan> nite
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[00:47:00] <zeeshan> bobo__: after pink cap is removbed
[00:47:10] <zeeshan> how in the world would i rotate the left collar nut
[00:47:14] <zeeshan> to remove spring tension slowly
[00:47:19] <zeeshan> the whole shaft will spin
[00:47:29] <bobo__> zeeshan do you have 1 or more Strap wrench ? for turning round stuff such as that hydrolic
[00:47:41] <atom1> zeeshan, hold your shaft tightly
[00:47:43] <zeeshan> yea i have one
[00:49:12] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16412452615/
[00:49:16] <zeeshan> you can see the collar nut on this
[00:49:22] <bobo__> may have to make a split coller .----and use shaft in coller --coller in vice
[00:49:22] <zeeshan> its the grayest one
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[00:51:44] <bobo__> looking at Dwg. it looks like every thing shells out the right /top side
[00:52:00] <zeeshan> yes
[00:52:04] <zeeshan> but only after you loosen the left collar
[00:52:18] <zeeshan> thats why im thinking, the pink thing comes off first
[00:52:26] <zeeshan> then you slowly loosen the left collar
[00:52:28] <zeeshan> to release spring tension
[00:52:57] <zeeshan> once the collar nut is off
[00:53:01] <zeeshan> the whole thing should slide out
[00:53:25] <bobo__> I think you are correct
[00:53:35] <zeeshan> im gonna to loose an eye
[00:53:39] <zeeshan> be back in a bit :)
[00:53:57] <robinsz> so, how do you figure out how much offset to apply? I guess I need to claculate the difference between the current Z joint position and the top of the Z joint
[00:54:01] <robinsz> ??
[00:54:59] <atom1> your offset is measured from the top down iirc
[00:55:13] <atom1> when you set the tooling
[00:55:19] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: in least its loose eye not lost a eye
[00:55:20] <robinsz> ?
[00:55:32] <atom1> use that along with the current position
[00:55:40] <robinsz> how?
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[00:55:54] <atom1> :) i've not tried it yet
[00:56:25] <robinsz> what I am not seeing is any sort of macro that is run when the pause button is pushed
[00:56:47] <robinsz> I don't really understand how this all hangs together
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[00:57:51] <atom1> i would only be guessing at this point...
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[00:58:59] <robinsz> in Mach3 you can write visual basic macros that run when you press an on-screen control
[00:59:07] <_methods> is anyone in here running 64bit with rt-preempt?
[00:59:26] <_methods> is that the only way to run 64bit linuxcnc?
[00:59:35] <robinsz> makes it quite simple to do stuff like this
[01:00:08] <zeeshan-mill> mach 3 is also not real time
[01:00:09] <zeeshan-mill> :-)
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[01:00:26] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: in least its loose eye not lost a eye ;)
[01:00:32] <zeeshan-mill> i mean lose haha
[01:00:34] <robinsz> this I know
[01:00:43] <XXCoder1> yea had to joke though
[01:00:54] <robinsz> id rather slam my fingers in a car door than use Mach3
[01:00:56] <zeeshan-mill> im making a thin wrench
[01:00:58] <zeeshan-mill> for this piece of shit
[01:01:08] <zeeshan-mill> they had full room to use a regular wrench
[01:01:15] <zeeshan-mill> =/
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[01:01:27] <robinsz> im lost as to how to get moveoff to stop the spindle
[01:01:45] <atom1> can you call a sub from within it?
[01:01:51] <robinsz> no idea
[01:02:07] <atom1> i know you can tie subs to ngcgui buttons
[01:02:08] <XXCoder1> atom1: recusive call
[01:02:22] <XXCoder1> dunno if language you use supports it, but thats what its called
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[01:21:25] <robinsz> so these snippets of code in the moveoff samples .. do I paste them into the main ini file or what?
[01:22:22] <bobo__> hathaway is looking for a few good shirt salesmen ------zeeshan are you qualified now ? they supply eye patches
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[01:58:28] <MacGalempsy> cant figure out what I did to get the halscope to stop triggering
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[02:04:40] <MacGalempsy> got. it...
[02:04:54] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: you making anything yet?
[02:08:25] <furrywolf> not too much yard sale stuff today. a pair of new-in-box 16W LED vehicle worklights for $6, some assorted tools and cable for $2, and a few little things.
[02:16:23] <bobo__> yard sales were canceled due to snow ,around here
[02:16:50] <furrywolf> sun here
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[02:17:03] <zeeshan-mill> lost an eye
[02:17:22] <zeeshan-mill> =]
[02:17:26] <zeeshan-mill> =]
[02:17:37] <bobo__> hathaway shirts for you
[02:17:46] <zeeshan-mill> wut
[02:17:49] <zeeshan-mill> whats that
[02:18:01] <zeeshan-mill> i got thepink cap off
[02:18:08] <zeeshan-mill> and the damn long rod that was atachedto that grey shaft
[02:18:15] <zeeshan-mill> i can see thep iston
[02:18:18] <zeeshan-mill> but it wont come out
[02:18:26] <furrywolf> ... lost an eye?
[02:18:31] <zeeshan-mill> furrywolf, joke
[02:18:38] <bobo__> their ad had a guy with a eye patch
[02:18:43] <zeeshan-mill> oh
[02:19:03] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/wZtMkQ0.jpg
[02:19:04] <zeeshan-mill> halp!
[02:19:11] <zeeshan-mill> i see mr green
[02:19:22] <zeeshan-mill> it doesnt wanna come out
[02:20:23] <furrywolf> It was Mr Green, in the machine room, with the hydraulic ram!
[02:21:09] <bobo__> is the left threaded ring off the shaft ?
[02:22:11] <bobo__> try air into vent hole
[02:23:20] <bobo__> 95.100.207.2.1
[02:24:09] <zeeshan-mill> bobo
[02:24:10] <zeeshan-mill> its loose
[02:24:19] <zeeshan-mill> the left thread collar nut
[02:24:33] <zeeshan-mill> on the center of the piston
[02:24:36] <zeeshan-mill> there is a threaded hole
[02:24:40] <zeeshan-mill> i think youre supposed to put a bolt in there
[02:24:42] <zeeshan-mill> and pull on it
[02:24:46] <zeeshan-mill> its still not budging
[02:24:55] <bobo__> shows a vent hole -air might pop stuff out right side
[02:25:18] <zeeshan-mill> itll justleak air
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[02:28:14] <bobo__> would think if 95.100.213.4.1 is removed ,then tap rod to shove stuff out right
[02:30:27] <bobo__> whate if the ball is retaining the parts ?
[02:30:33] <zeeshan-mill> it came out
[02:30:37] <zeeshan-mill> i needd to stick that ball on
[02:30:39] <zeeshan-mill> er
[02:30:43] <zeeshan-mill> bolt in, and rotate it
[02:30:55] <zeeshan-mill> then pull on the bolt
[02:31:04] <zeeshan-mill> now i need to get 213.4.1 off
[02:31:07] <zeeshan-mill> and it should all come out
[02:31:12] <zeeshan-mill> i can see those 3 dowels pins
[02:31:16] <zeeshan-mill> theyre sliding fit :)
[02:31:26] <bobo__> good
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[02:34:44] <bobo__> the part the dowel pins pass thru ---how does it clamp to the shaft ? is it a split coller type thing ?
[02:35:54] * furrywolf wonders if this device has more parts than the world has IP addresses
[02:37:14] <bobo__> furrywolf it's a German part
[02:37:46] <cpresser> what kind of tool/part is that anyway?
[02:38:36] <bobo__> hyd tool holder relese
[02:38:41] <cpresser> btw, gesichert meens 'glued in' here, but most likely you already know that
[02:38:52] <Tom_itx> grabs the retention knob on a spindle
[02:41:43] <furrywolf> bobo__: I gathered that from the german.
[02:44:15] <bobo__> Germany has made some amazing stuff
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[02:47:16] <ssi> hi
[02:48:45] <cpresser> yes, we invented fascism
[02:48:58] <ssi> I don't think you invented it
[02:49:05] <ssi> helped perfect it maybe
[02:49:42] <cpresser> i am not sure if italy was first.. lets look it up :)
[02:49:58] <bobo__> ssi help zeeshan disassemble the hyd pull stud thingy for his mikron mill
[02:50:09] <ssi> hahah
[02:50:16] <ssi> I told him hydraulics were bad news
[02:50:22] <ssi> I'm trying to put my plasma table back together
[02:50:34] <ssi> I seem to be missing the 5i25 P2 breakout
[02:51:37] <bobo__> not another fire sold item I hope
[02:51:49] <ssi> who knows
[02:52:05] <ssi> I have no idea what I do and don't own at this point
[02:52:40] <bobo__> Christmas time
[02:52:51] <MacGalempsy> when PID tuning, should the machine be on the edge of bouncing when P is close to being right?
[02:53:09] <ssi> back P off enough so it's stable
[02:53:13] <cpresser> MacGalempsy: depending on which tuning rule you use, yes
[02:53:17] <ssi> more P means quicker response
[02:53:26] <furrywolf> one estate sale I went to had an old machinist's toolbox in the corner of the garage, not for sale. I asked the girl running the sale about it, and she said it was full of tools, but they weren't selling it until her father looked through them. I gave her my number.
[02:53:39] * furrywolf hasn't gotten a call yet, but it's only been 6 hours...
[02:54:10] <cpresser> MacGalempsy: there is a tutorial:
http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html
[02:54:27] <MacGalempsy> yeah I see that, but it only does P, FF1 and FF2
[02:54:41] <ssi> yeah that's the best tuning method in my opinion
[02:54:44] <bobo__> buy father a cold 6 pack---as soon as you can
[02:55:02] <cpresser> MacGalempsy: there is also the NZ-Method:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziegler%E2%80%93Nichols_method
[02:55:06] <pcw_home> Typically thats all that needed for a velocity mode drive
[02:55:06] <furrywolf> father wasn't there, and girl was annoying.
[02:55:34] <pcw_home> FF1 is the main thing
[02:56:13] <MacGalempsy> cpresser: do F0, FF1, and FF2 correspond to any of the "Control types in that table?"
[02:57:14] <MacGalempsy> maybe I am at the limits of the amp tuning
[02:57:14] <cpresser> MacGalempsy: actually, I dont know about anything about those FF-Terms. They didnt cover that during control-thery-lecure at the unviversity
[02:57:31] <pcw_home> ZN knows nothing about feed forward
[02:57:39] <MacGalempsy> k
[02:57:42] <ssi> FF is feedforward
[02:57:45] <cpresser> the tutorial does look fine for me, i would follow that
[02:57:54] <ssi> linuxcnc knows a bit about what the command should be, and its derivatives
[02:58:02] <ssi> and you can mix that into the command to compensate
[02:58:08] <MacGalempsy> I will take a screen shot of the best tuning I have been able to come up with, and see if anyone can give some advice
[02:58:12] <MacGalempsy> 1 min
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[02:58:27] <ssi> so you tune P like normal, then you'll have some steady state velocity error on a long cruise, so you adjust FF1 (feedforward in velocity) to compensate for that
[02:58:44] <ssi> then you'll have some overshoot/undershoot in the accel phase, and you adjust FF2 (feedforward in acceleration) to compensate
[02:58:47] <ssi> it's pretty easy
[02:58:57] <ssi> way easier than ZN
[03:00:35] <pcw_home> One way to look at it is that if you had perfect velocity mode drives, FF1 is all you would need (just forward linuxcncs commanded velocity to the drive)
[03:01:55] <Tom_itx> what sort of numbers should you start with for P & FF1?
[03:02:04] <Tom_itx> if you're just starting to tune
[03:02:12] <ssi> start with P = 1 and FF1 = 0
[03:02:19] <ssi> turn P up until it oscillates, then back off
[03:02:44] <Tom_itx> you don't use I or D on these?
[03:02:48] <ssi> nope
[03:02:57] <Tom_itx> what about FF2?
[03:03:01] <Tom_itx> what's it for?
[03:03:09] <ssi> FF2 is to compensate for acceleration errors
[03:03:24] <Tom_itx> ok
[03:03:32] <pcw_home> If you normalize your PID parameters FF1=1
[03:03:38] <ssi> when you do a long fast jog, and watch it in halscope, you'll see the command do a smooth ramp up (the accel), a steady constant velocity cruise, and a smooth ramp down (decel)
[03:03:45] <Tom_itx> i've had enough for one day but i'll work on it more tomorrow
[03:03:50] <ssi> FF1 lets you adjust to minimize the error during the cruise phase
[03:03:58] <ssi> FF2 lets you adjust to minimize the error during the accel phase
[03:04:04] <Tom_itx> been trying to get sync working too...
[03:04:10] <ssi> you'll typically hav ean error trace in halscope that looks like an S
[03:04:10] <MacGalempsy> https://www.flickr.com/photos/58181938@N03/16420477190/
[03:04:14] <cpresser> can anyone suggest a reading on what FF1 and FF2 are (from a theoretical/math point of view). i could look at the pid-controller sources, but i guess there are better places?
[03:04:28] <ssi> it'll bump up or down during the accel, then be straight but non-zero during cruise, then go down or up during decel
[03:05:20] <Tom_itx> what sort of increments would you use to make changes? ie how sensitive is it?
[03:05:22] <MacGalempsy> the amps were "extensively tuned" by the manufactururer
[03:05:30] <ssi> cpresser: with velocity mode drives, the command that's output is multiplied times (FF1 * vel-cmd)
[03:05:31] <pcw_home> In a position mode loop FF1 forwards the commanded velocity to the PID output, and FF2 forwards the commanded acceleration to the output
[03:05:33] <ssi> I think that's how it actually works
[03:05:45] <ssi> and FF2 * the commanded accel
[03:05:59] <cpresser> ssi: okay, that does help me understand it. thanks
[03:06:49] <ssi> pcw_home: my 26pin to DB25 P2 adapter has gone missing! :'(
[03:06:49] <MacGalempsy> you can see the soft start on the joint-vel-cmd, but I think that is the amp tuning
[03:07:20] <ssi> MacGalempsy: also if you can adjust the command offset of your drive, you want to watch halscope and adjust the offset to zero out any drift
[03:07:22] <pcw_home> ssi: look in your box of PC junk
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[03:07:35] <ssi> drift will show up as a non-zero error when the axis isn't moving
[03:07:42] <ssi> or non-zero vel-cmd maybe
[03:07:50] <ssi> pcw_home: I don't really have boxes of PC junk anymore since the fire :(
[03:08:15] <ssi> the plasma table got summarily ripped out and moved across town, and I'm trying to put it back together now
[03:08:27] <ssi> the pc that was running it used to have that adapter in it, not sure why it doesn't anymore
[03:08:53] <pcw_home> I can send you one on Monday if you remind me
[03:09:19] <pcw_home> low profile?
[03:09:22] <ssi> yea
[03:09:27] <ssi> I'll remind you monday if I don't locate it
[03:17:28] <pcw_home> MacGalempsy: to me it looks like the drives have a offset error (the ferror trace should be roughly symmetrical about 0)
[03:18:08] <pcw_home> also set I to 0 for initial tuning
[03:18:46] <MacGalempsy> I was just looking at that, and the two axes with the same motors have the zero pot dialed differently.
[03:18:56] <furrywolf> apparantly the torch tower fire was caused by someone using a grill on a balcony. something that most people should consider a bad idea...
[03:19:28] <MacGalempsy> I have a feeling the x axis is plugged into either the z axis amp or the 4th axis amp
[03:20:03] <pcw_home> you can set P,I,D to 0 and adjust the offset so the drift is minimized
[03:20:58] <pcw_home> note that with PID set to 0 it will drift till you get a following error
[03:22:09] <MacGalempsy> its a good thing I documented the board layout! lol lets see what I boned up
[03:22:26] <pcw_home> grill on balcony on building with plastic siding = probably not a great idea
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[03:24:00] <MacGalempsy> yeajh. time to swap
[03:24:16] <furrywolf> I don't know which is worse... that someone would use a grill in such a manner, or that a building was designed such that a reasonably expectable bit of idiocy results in 30 floors burning.
[03:25:45] <_methods> never underestimate the power of stupid
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[03:27:02] <furrywolf> however, I guess it was largely confined to the outside skin, and the fire department managed to put it out in three hours, which is pretty impressive itself.
[03:27:17] <MacGalempsy> take 2 test time! lol
[03:37:30] <furrywolf> just tested one of the worklights... standard chinese leds, but seem usable. not bad for $3/each. looks like they're about $20/each online.
[03:47:44] <zeeshan> frigging hyd cylinder
[03:47:46] <zeeshan> wont come apart !
[03:47:54] <furrywolf> bigger hammer?
[03:47:59] <zeeshan> tried a press too
[03:48:05] <zeeshan> i appled 5000lb pressure
[03:48:06] <zeeshan> fkr wont come out
[03:48:35] <furrywolf> work smarter, not harder?
[03:48:36] * furrywolf hides
[03:48:42] <zeeshan> lol
[03:49:08] <Tom_itx> you just need the key to unlock it
[03:49:22] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/wZtMkQ0.jpg
[03:49:26] <zeeshan> the red thing wont come out
[03:49:44] <zeeshan> the blue thing wont come out
[03:49:45] <zeeshan> cause of it
[03:50:01] <Tom_itx> are you removing the red thing to the right or left?
[03:50:05] <Tom_itx> it comes out the right
[03:50:10] <zeeshan> towards the right
[03:50:18] <zeeshan> the 11 ball bearings are out
[03:50:33] <zeeshan> 95.100.410.4.1
[03:50:36] <zeeshan> is the other thing stuck
[03:50:38] <zeeshan> that wont come out
[03:50:40] <furrywolf> only cylinders I've taken apart were trivial, so I have no experience with ones like yours.
[03:50:47] <Tom_itx> left hand thread?
[03:50:53] <zeeshan> yea usually they are just a piston
[03:50:57] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: its not threaded
[03:51:05] <Tom_itx> what holds it on then?
[03:51:34] <zeeshan> i dont know :(
[03:51:43] <Tom_itx> is the pink out?
[03:51:47] <zeeshan> yea
[03:51:48] <Tom_itx> is the green out?
[03:51:51] <zeeshan> even the dowels are out
[03:52:11] <Tom_itx> 212.5.1?
[03:52:18] <zeeshan> yea
[03:52:19] <zeeshan> those are out
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[03:52:45] <zeeshan> btw
[03:52:50] <zeeshan> bvroken pieces of springs came out
[03:52:59] <zeeshan> the ball bearings dont look worn
[03:53:04] <zeeshan> so i think it just needs a new spring pack
[03:53:05] <Tom_itx> 814.4.2?
[03:53:06] <zeeshan> and its good to go
[03:53:09] <zeeshan> yea
[03:53:13] <zeeshan> that pic is misleading
[03:53:18] <zeeshan> but even in that white space between the springs
[03:53:21] <zeeshan> is a stack of springs
[03:53:23] <Tom_itx> so that's what's jammed in holding the red in
[03:53:51] <Tom_itx> blow about 150psi thru the side hole
[03:53:55] <Tom_itx> what happens?
[03:54:01] <zeeshan> itll just leak air
[03:54:11] <zeeshan> the gray rod
[03:54:17] <zeeshan> is out
[03:54:43] <zeeshan> all thats left is the spring pack, the red thing
[03:54:49] <Tom_itx> snap ring above the red part
[03:54:50] <zeeshan> 211.4.1
[03:54:50] <Tom_itx> ?
[03:55:17] <Tom_itx> but you said the green was out...
[03:55:25] <zeeshan> yea its out
[03:55:28] <Tom_itx> are those seals or snaprings?
[03:55:32] <Tom_itx> around Mr. Green
[03:55:40] <zeeshan> 3 seals
[03:56:13] <bobo__> 95100.211.is holding 95.100.410.4.1
[03:56:38] <zeeshan> wtf is that
[03:56:42] <zeeshan> and how do you get it out
[03:56:43] <zeeshan> lol
[03:56:46] <zeeshan> i thought it was just a seal
[03:57:01] <Tom_itx> compression ring of some sort?
[03:57:35] <Tom_itx> hmm it appears to move
[03:57:47] <Tom_itx> it's up in the top and down in the bottom
[03:57:57] <Tom_itx> because of Mr. Blue
[03:58:31] <zeeshan> it should slide out!
[03:58:41] <bobo__> how did you get the shaft (gray) out ?
[03:58:43] <Tom_itx> push Mr Blue to the left
[03:58:55] <Tom_itx> so it's in Mr Blue's slot
[03:59:00] <zeeshan> bobo__: it slide out the right
[03:59:04] <zeeshan> along with the thing that the dowels sit in
[03:59:08] <zeeshan> theyre all 1 piece
[03:59:09] <Tom_itx> then slide Mr Red out the right
[03:59:24] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i have been trying!
[03:59:26] <zeeshan> it doesnt wanna budge
[03:59:42] <Tom_itx> is the white behind Mr Green out or is that threaded in place?
[03:59:48] <Tom_itx> not the dowels
[03:59:57] <Tom_itx> the thing the dowels are in
[04:00:04] <zeeshan> the things the dowels are
[04:00:07] <zeeshan> is part of the long grey shaft
[04:00:09] <zeeshan> theyre one piece
[04:00:15] <Tom_itx> you said that was out
[04:00:18] <zeeshan> its a guide
[04:00:20] <zeeshan> yes
[04:00:23] <zeeshan> it came out with the gray thing
[04:00:27] <zeeshan> its that red thing
[04:00:30] <zeeshan> that doesnt wanna come out
[04:00:32] <Tom_itx> so what about the Blue thing?
[04:00:32] <zeeshan> i can see it
[04:00:38] <zeeshan> blue thing is chilling inthere
[04:00:45] <zeeshan> because its bigger than the red thing in diameter
[04:00:45] <Tom_itx> it needs to move left
[04:00:47] <zeeshan> so it wont come out
[04:00:49] <zeeshan> its floating inthere
[04:00:54] <zeeshan> theres like 1/2" gap move movement
[04:00:54] <Tom_itx> so Mr Red can move
[04:00:56] <zeeshan> *of
[04:01:22] <Tom_itx> saw it in half so you can get a better view of it
[04:01:29] <zeeshan> i was thinking of turning it
[04:01:31] <zeeshan> and rewelding it
[04:01:33] <zeeshan> :-)
[04:01:42] <Tom_itx> no that would be bad
[04:01:50] <zeeshan> im kidding
[04:02:02] <zeeshan> lemme snap a pic
[04:02:14] <Tom_itx> better hurry
[04:02:18] <Tom_itx> i'm growing weary
[04:03:54] <bobo__> my thinking (and hope ) is the red part is only stuck ----very gentle tap, mayby ?
[04:04:32] <Tom_itx> it is supposed to slide
[04:04:38] <Tom_itx> acording to the diagram
[04:05:12] <bobo__> may have devolped a ridge ?
[04:05:31] <Tom_itx> is the nut on the left end removed?
[04:05:45] <Tom_itx> it looks like the grey shaft comes out the right end as well
[04:06:53] <bobo__> thought shaft was out
[04:07:11] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure at this point
[04:07:32] <bobo__> who is on first ?
[04:07:46] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sale-LED-Filament-Bulb-6W-true-LED-60W-equivalent-650lumens-3000k-A19-/121574991822 wtf?
[04:08:21] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16607312242/
[04:08:23] <zeeshan> gray thing,
[04:08:29] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15985769144/in/photostream/
[04:08:41] <zeeshan> the dowels slide through that and push against the blue thing.
[04:08:54] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15988176723/
[04:09:04] <zeeshan> blue thing being floppy inside the cylinder
[04:09:41] <_methods> furrywolf: those bulbs are cool as hell
[04:09:55] <_methods> we do some work at my shop for a lighting company
[04:10:17] <zeeshan> they are fancy
[04:10:17] <_methods> they also have some with filaments the move like flickering light/flames
[04:10:28] <_methods> s/the/that
[04:10:49] <Tom_itx> zeeshan that's the blue thing in the center of the last pic?
[04:10:51] <furrywolf> I've never seen filament LEDs before...
[04:11:07] <zeeshan> yea its the blue thing inthe diagram
[04:11:46] <_methods> yeah they look good too
[04:11:50] <Tom_itx> how far will it slide?
[04:12:00] <zeeshan> red thing wont slide at all
[04:12:00] <zeeshan> :/
[04:12:04] <Tom_itx> blue
[04:12:10] <zeeshan> oh that thing is like moving .5"
[04:12:15] <zeeshan> maybe even 3/4"
[04:12:19] <furrywolf> I'm trying to find an unusually short LED bulb, for a fixture that looks like it should take a regular A19 lamp, but only has 3+3/4" available length from the button contact to the glass.
[04:12:21] <Tom_itx> can you move it more?
[04:12:29] <zeeshan> no
[04:12:37] <Tom_itx> what holds compression on those wavy springs?
[04:12:50] <Tom_itx> the left set and the right set?
[04:13:02] <zeeshan> well when you tigthen the nut on the gray shaft
[04:13:05] <zeeshan> it pulls everything together
[04:13:09] <zeeshan> (the spring pack)
[04:13:23] <Tom_itx> so you need a tool to pull that thing back
[04:13:30] <Tom_itx> so it will go past the red thing
[04:13:32] <zeeshan> the springs arent under tension
[04:13:40] <zeeshan> theyre flopping around
[04:14:01] <zeeshan> pull the blue thing back ?
[04:14:04] <zeeshan> through the right side?
[04:14:12] <Tom_itx> push the blue thing back as far as you can and see if you can hook something behind Mr Red to pull it out to the right
[04:14:30] <Tom_itx> pull the blue to the left and the red to the right
[04:15:02] <Tom_itx> use that allthread you have
[04:15:12] <bobo__> try slamming right side into wood block
[04:15:16] <Tom_itx> put a nut on both ends and tighten it up
[04:15:24] <zeeshan> bobo__:
[04:15:26] <zeeshan> ive been doing that
[04:15:26] <Tom_itx> to pull the center back
[04:15:27] <zeeshan> for a while
[04:15:28] <zeeshan> lol
[04:15:41] <furrywolf> most LED bulbs seem to start at 4.4", while I need 3.8". bleh.
[04:15:43] <Tom_itx> then see if you can pull the red piece out
[04:16:19] <Tom_itx> something must be in front (right) of the red thing holding it in place
[04:16:31] <Tom_itx> what's that white part next to the pins?
[04:16:33] <zeeshan> well you see the pic :P
[04:16:40] <zeeshan> there is no snap ring or anything
[04:16:57] <Tom_itx> afayk
[04:17:19] <Tom_itx> is it threaded?
[04:17:28] <Tom_itx> it can't be because it slides
[04:17:30] <Tom_itx> the red part
[04:17:33] <zeeshan> yea
[04:17:38] <zeeshan> maybe its just cocked
[04:17:47] <zeeshan> and being a bastard
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[04:17:58] <Tom_itx> pull the blue part to the left and hook something under the red part
[04:17:58] <zeeshan> i need something that can pull on the blue thing
[04:18:01] <zeeshan> and force the red thing out
[04:18:10] <Tom_itx> i told you to use the allthread you got
[04:18:13] <Tom_itx> for the blue part
[04:18:22] <zeeshan> well that'l ljust compress the springs
[04:18:31] <zeeshan> the spring pressure should help the red thing come out !
[04:18:35] <zeeshan> not keep it in :(
[04:18:38] <Tom_itx> won't it move the blue part to the left?
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[04:18:44] <zeeshan> yes it will
[04:18:47] <zeeshan> by compressing the springs
[04:18:52] <Tom_itx> past the end of the red thing?
[04:18:53] <zeeshan> and taking up the gap cause of broken springs
[04:18:59] <bobo__> are the 6.2 balls out ?
[04:19:05] <zeeshan> bobo__: yea
[04:19:16] <bobo__> crap
[04:19:23] <zeeshan> wait a second.
[04:19:31] <zeeshan> i think that RED thing is out already
[04:19:44] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16607312242/in/photostream/
[04:19:49] <zeeshan> that sure as hell looks like the red thing .
[04:19:59] <zeeshan> yea
[04:20:02] <zeeshan> that is the red thing for sure.
[04:20:21] <zeeshan> you can tell by the chamfer on the part that has the dowel holes
[04:20:26] <Tom_itx> so what's left then?
[04:20:27] <zeeshan> its mr 410.4.1
[04:20:30] <zeeshan> that is firigging suck.
[04:20:34] <zeeshan> stuck
[04:20:39] <zeeshan> you can see that the blue thing has an edge
[04:20:53] <zeeshan> 410.4.1 wont let the blue thing come out
[04:21:05] <zeeshan> i think i need to pull on the blue thing
[04:21:10] <zeeshan> force it out.
[04:21:13] <Tom_itx> is 410 threaded?
[04:21:25] <zeeshan> i dont think so
[04:21:28] <zeeshan> i dont see anywhere to assemble
[04:21:30] <zeeshan> or disassemble it
[04:21:33] <zeeshan> if it was threaded
[04:21:33] <Tom_itx> then pull Mr Blue back like i said
[04:21:48] <zeeshan> how?
[04:21:51] <zeeshan> all thread will compress it
[04:21:53] <zeeshan> not pull on it
[04:22:02] <zeeshan> i wanna pull it to the right
[04:22:21] <abetusk> I was hoping to connect some DROs directly to the table of my CNC to get absolute position (if not exactly real-time). I was hoping to maybe talk it out to see what other people think about it. My CNC is a Zen Toolworks with anti-backlash nuts. Will the anti-backlash nuts mess with repeatability? What if I just take off the spring and joining nut, can I expect to get repeatability if I take care of it in software?
[04:22:47] <Tom_itx> so put a nut on the end of something smaller than the hole and hook it behind the blue thing and pull
[04:23:19] <zeeshan> this is gonna need a special tool
[04:23:20] <zeeshan> :/
[04:23:29] <zeeshan> none of my gear pullers will fit in there
[04:23:35] * Tom_itx hands zeeshan a sledge hammer
[04:23:39] <zeeshan> lol
[04:23:42] <Tom_itx> is that special enough?
[04:24:00] <Tom_itx> be careful it may have threads
[04:24:04] <Tom_itx> or something
[04:24:32] <Tom_itx> doesn't that hold the springs in?
[04:25:17] <zeeshan> yea
[04:25:20] <zeeshan> looks like it
[04:25:28] <Tom_itx> well maybe it's threaded then
[04:25:35] <Tom_itx> i doubt it's pressed in
[04:25:41] <Tom_itx> is it steel or what?
[04:25:48] <zeeshan> i wish i knew what 95.100.211.4.1 is
[04:26:10] <zeeshan> yea its steel
[04:26:13] <Tom_itx> it must be steel
[04:26:18] <Tom_itx> the bearings move on it
[04:26:33] <Tom_itx> i bet it's either threaded or stuck
[04:26:45] <Tom_itx> it has to stay in one spot
[04:27:11] <zeeshan> well you see the pciture
[04:27:14] <zeeshan> of it physically
[04:27:17] <zeeshan> theres no way to unscrew it
[04:27:21] <Tom_itx> can you put a screwdriver in from the left and tap on the back side of it?
[04:27:32] <Tom_itx> or some other small diameter tool
[04:27:39] <zeeshan> no
[04:27:42] <Tom_itx> lightly tap on it in various places
[04:27:44] <zeeshan> the spring pack is in the way
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[04:28:02] <zeeshan> i think the only way to pull it out
[04:28:04] <zeeshan> is using that blue thing
[04:28:29] <Tom_itx> and it's still in there?
[04:28:42] <zeeshan> huh
[04:28:54] <Tom_itx> the blue part is still in there?
[04:29:06] <Tom_itx> hook a bolt behind it and tug on it a bit
[04:29:15] <Tom_itx> the head of a bolt and see
[04:29:41] <Tom_itx> or bend a rod or something to hook behind it
[04:29:59] <zeeshan> you need like
[04:30:23] <zeeshan> http://img.directindustry.com/images_di/photo-g/hydraulic-bearing-puller-two-arm-self-centering-three-arm-20040-5621021.jpg
[04:30:25] <zeeshan> something like that
[04:30:26] <bobo__> brass / alum smaller than left side hole and tap on side of red part ?
[04:30:28] <zeeshan> that can fit in the tight space
[04:30:49] <zeeshan> bobo__:
[04:30:52] <zeeshan> red part is already out
[04:30:59] <zeeshan> its part of the gray shaft
[04:31:02] <zeeshan> i didnt realize that earlier
[04:31:12] <Tom_itx> i think you can hook something behind it
[04:31:21] <Tom_itx> and gently pull on it a bit
[04:31:30] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vCog4O8.jpg
[04:31:31] <zeeshan> updated pic
[04:32:12] <zeeshan> slightly off topic
[04:32:18] <zeeshan> that pink thing aka "rotary union"
[04:32:18] <Tom_itx> what if you tap on the spring pack from the left side?
[04:32:21] <zeeshan> that piece of crap
[04:32:24] <zeeshan> is $450 to replace lol
[04:32:37] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: thats what i was trying to do
[04:32:40] <zeeshan> i actually used a press
[04:32:45] <zeeshan> i saw 5000lb pressure
[04:32:50] <zeeshan> i got scared and stopped :p
[04:32:55] <zeeshan> cause it shouldn't be that jammed in.
[04:33:04] <Tom_itx> you got it jammed good now huh?
[04:33:11] <zeeshan> yea!
[04:33:19] <zeeshan> the real question is
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[04:33:22] <Tom_itx> will it move to the left at all?
[04:33:25] <zeeshan> wtf is that 211.4.1
[04:33:28] <Tom_itx> if you tap it from the right end?
[04:33:31] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i havent tried to move it to the left
[04:33:33] <zeeshan> i will try that
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[04:33:50] <Tom_itx> it's a retainer
[04:34:01] <zeeshan> yea but it's inside the damn thing
[04:34:05] <zeeshan> how are you supposed to remove it!
[04:34:12] <Tom_itx> not with a press
[04:34:19] <zeeshan> omg
[04:34:21] <zeeshan> wait a sec.
[04:34:26] <zeeshan> oh nm.
[04:34:32] <Tom_itx> see there's a radius just to the right of it that it may be jammed in
[04:34:42] <zeeshan> youre right
[04:34:44] <zeeshan> if it cocks a bit
[04:34:48] <zeeshan> itll jam in there
[04:34:52] <Tom_itx> tap it back to the left
[04:35:11] <zeeshan> brb :P
[04:35:12] <Tom_itx> look at it first to see
[04:35:20] <Tom_itx> or measure the distance to the end
[04:35:37] <Tom_itx> around the diameter to see if one side is out farther
[04:36:21] <Tom_itx> and there may be broken spring in that radius too
[04:36:27] <Tom_itx> clean it out good
[04:37:45] <Tom_itx> gnite
[04:43:04] <bobo__> gnite ? don't leave me alone holding the snipe bag
[04:44:05] <Tom_itx> hope he didn't screw up the race those bearings move in with that ring
[04:49:20] <furrywolf> the shortest led lamps I can find are the chinese corncob ones... I guess for $5 I'll give one a try.
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[04:54:33] <bobo__> tom as i see the Dwg ---the red thing is 2 parts , and looking at cylinder it looks as if the outer ring is still in there
[04:55:00] <bobo__> photo of cyl
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[05:34:07] <furrywolf> Innovation bulb chandelier, return to the ancients, apply to the bar, evening party, decorate
[05:39:52] <bobo__> zeeshan: my guess is 95.100.211.4.1 is either a"O" ring or more probable --a wavey metal wire ring
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[05:57:37] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[05:59:43] <zeeshan> bobo
[05:59:45] <zeeshan> u there?
[06:01:43] <zeeshan> bobo__: wake up!!!!!!!!11
[06:01:45] <zeeshan> you better be up
[06:01:52] <zeeshan> youve been on my case about this forever
[06:02:58] <zeeshan> bobo__: wake up
[06:02:58] <zeeshan> bobo__: wake up
[06:05:43] <furrywolf> probably in bed like you should be. :P
[06:05:47] <zeeshan> dude
[06:05:53] <zeeshan> made a new discovery on the machine
[06:05:56] <zeeshan> the rumors were true.
[06:06:11] <zeeshan> bobo was the one who discussed it with me months ago
[06:06:12] <MacGalempsy> rumors?
[06:06:17] <zeeshan> yes
[06:06:23] <zeeshan> this machine is literally a vertical and horizontal machine in 1.
[06:06:29] <zeeshan> and i finally confirmed it today
[06:07:35] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/A1y9f
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[06:07:55] <zeeshan> so bad ass!
[06:08:06] <zeeshan> looks like no one ever removed the veritcal head
[06:08:29] <XXCoder1> vertical head attaches to horzonal head?
[06:08:30] <MacGalempsy> I cant figure how you get all that shite in your garage
[06:08:37] <zeeshan> yea XXCoder1!
[06:08:39] <XXCoder1> MacGalempsy: time lord tech
[06:08:43] <zeeshan> the top thing that looks like a blender
[06:08:46] <zeeshan> powers the vertical head
[06:09:05] <zeeshan> bobo__: are you happy?
[06:09:14] <zeeshan> i took off the head for you :)
[06:12:32] <XXCoder1> so lower part I guess is chuck holder or something
[06:12:37] <zeeshan> yea
[06:12:38] <zeeshan> thats a spindle
[06:12:41] <zeeshan> iso40
[06:12:58] <zeeshan> i wish i didnt take my hydraulic cylinder apart
[06:13:08] <zeeshan> i could plug it back in
[06:13:11] <zeeshan> and test the drawbar on this
[06:14:52] <bobo__> thank's
[06:15:07] <zeeshan> COOL EH?
[06:15:19] <zeeshan> im freaked out by it :D
[06:15:21] <zeeshan> in a good way
[06:15:37] <XXCoder1> so you could do mill either way
[06:15:44] <XXCoder1> pretty cool. never did vertical mill though
[06:15:54] <zeeshan> XXCoder1: think about a part like this
[06:16:17] <zeeshan> you need to mill a square at the end of a 5 foot long shaft
[06:16:44] <zeeshan> internal
[06:16:54] <zeeshan> you cant do it on a lathe, or a vertical mill
[06:16:58] <XXCoder1> yeah
[06:17:13] <XXCoder1> no vertical mill at work
[06:17:18] <zeeshan> oh
[06:17:21] <XXCoder1> guess never needed
[06:17:21] <zeeshan> you use horizontal?
[06:17:35] <XXCoder1> everything is basically lol
[06:17:43] <bobo__> the only thing that could be better is if the horz had a quill like your vertical does
[06:17:49] <XXCoder1> conventional mills is all mill
[06:17:54] <zeeshan> bobo__: why do you need a quill
[06:17:57] <zeeshan> for a cnc? :P
[06:18:01] <XXCoder1> err all horz
[06:18:27] <zeeshan> im out of scotch brite
[06:18:29] <bobo__> really sensitive stuff
[06:18:30] <zeeshan> need to clean surface rust
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[06:22:27] <bobo__> zeeshan is there much back lash in the vertical head bevel gear >
[06:22:41] <zeeshan> not that notice
[06:22:54] <zeeshan> i measured backlash a while back
[06:22:56] <zeeshan> its like 3 thou
[06:23:13] <zeeshan> i have no idea how they manage that :P
[06:23:42] <XXCoder1> fairies
[06:24:06] <bobo__> you have a really nice machine
[06:24:25] <zeeshan> help me fix the hydraulic drbawr :{
[06:24:27] <zeeshan> so i can feel the same way
[06:24:36] <zeeshan> i pounded the crap out of that thing
[06:24:43] <zeeshan> tried 10 ton of pressure
[06:24:45] <zeeshan> still didnt come out
[06:24:48] <zeeshan> its binding
[06:25:02] <zeeshan> i can pound the orange thing back to the left
[06:25:17] <zeeshan> i scored the inside of the cylinder during the escapade.
[06:27:37] <bobo__> starting to sound as if pay the stupid money --- or better yet make your own design replacement
[06:29:21] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DECKEL-FP3-HYDRAULIC-DRAW-BAR-/201283259626
[06:29:24] <zeeshan> maybe i should buy this one?
[06:29:31] <zeeshan> but idont think those springs will fit in my spindlke.
[06:34:31] <bobo__> keeping the washers outside of the spindle does keep broken pieces out of the pull stud fingers------but makes for a less compact unit
[06:35:08] <zeeshan> it also makes for easier replacement !
[06:35:21] <zeeshan> maybe i should just make my own ?
[06:35:25] <zeeshan> find a hydraulic cylinder.
[06:35:44] <zeeshan> make a custom long rod
[06:35:51] <zeeshan> keep the belleville washer pack outside the spindle
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[06:36:21] <bobo__> make the hole thing yourself
[06:36:21] <zeeshan> shrug :p
[06:36:34] <zeeshan> i could.. :)
[06:36:43] <bobo__> you can
[06:36:50] <zeeshan> i'd need to get the cylinder honed and chromed
[06:36:54] <zeeshan> though
[06:37:54] <bobo__> chrome is nice but not necessary
[06:38:47] <bobo__> use a brake hone
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[06:40:04] <bobo__> think about vertical slots on side for visual of washers
[06:40:06] <zeeshan> i still need to get that bloody blue thing out
[06:40:11] <zeeshan> piece of shit is stuck in there good
[06:40:12] <zeeshan> lol
[06:41:04] <zeeshan> bobo__: not a bad idea.
[06:41:20] <zeeshan> i was thinking they were submersed in fluid
[06:41:21] <zeeshan> but they are not
[06:41:26] <zeeshan> i know they're broken
[06:41:32] <zeeshan> ive already extracted pieces of em :/
[06:42:22] <zeeshan> bobo what was that german dealers name
[06:42:24] <zeeshan> that was expensive
[06:42:26] <zeeshan> but could get parts?
[06:43:54] <bobo__> with that "5.8" dim you can come up with your own replacement belville washers
[06:44:50] <bobo__> give me some minutes to find
[06:44:57] <MacGalempsy> any of you guys care to come to this google hang out and comment on my tuning?
[06:44:58] <zeeshan> thank you
[06:45:05] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: link
[06:47:15] <MacGalempsy> just a min
[06:47:32] <MacGalempsy> clients like to call when we are having fun
[06:51:24] <MacGalempsy> http://tinyurl.com/om9vtre
[06:51:48] <zeeshan> error
[06:52:39] <bobo__> Zeeshan: Franz Singer , Ph# 0817178238 ,Fax #0817176834 .E-mail singer@singer-werkzeugmaschinen.de----- as I have read --phone is better if you fax info first. they can converse in english. they don't use E-mail very well
[06:52:41] <MacGalempsy> humm I just used it
[06:52:54] <MacGalempsy> you do need a login
[06:53:02] <MacGalempsy> either a yahoo or gmail account
[06:55:54] <zeeshan> what ius this plugin install
[06:55:55] <zeeshan> f that!
[06:57:26] <MacGalempsy> i installed it on linux and windows. oh well
[06:57:36] <zeeshan> take some screenshots
[06:57:37] <MacGalempsy> will take a screen shot and post
[06:58:22] <bobo__> zeeshan: Singer Werkzeugmaschinen Reparatur ----ebay.de
[06:59:19] <zeeshan> wow
[06:59:21] <zeeshan> they got replacement dros
[06:59:23] <zeeshan> glass scales too
[06:59:26] <zeeshan> my model.
[06:59:55] <bobo__> sit down for $
[07:01:16] <bobo__> there is a heidenhan dealer in Calif.
[07:02:37] <MacGalempsy> https://www.flickr.com/photos/58181938@N03/16423258549/
[07:02:59] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy:
[07:03:05] <zeeshan> are you drives velocity controlled ?
[07:03:09] <MacGalempsy> yes
[07:03:13] <zeeshan> why are you tuning i
[07:03:14] <zeeshan> d
[07:03:34] <MacGalempsy> because tweaking those is the only way to minimize the error
[07:03:45] <zeeshan> did you start with P
[07:03:50] <MacGalempsy> yeah
[07:03:51] <zeeshan> then tune ff1 ?
[07:03:58] <zeeshan> that should be all thats needed
[07:04:26] <MacGalempsy> ok. let me reset everything.
[07:04:38] <zeeshan> keep increasing P till you hit oscillation
[07:04:52] <zeeshan> say it was 200
[07:04:56] <zeeshan> back off to like 120.
[07:04:58] <MacGalempsy> does that mean the motors bounce?
[07:05:05] <zeeshan> yea they vibrate
[07:05:08] <zeeshan> ull see it
[07:05:14] <MacGalempsy> yeah I have seen that
[07:05:30] <zeeshan> plot your velocity feedback
[07:05:32] <MacGalempsy> but the ferror is way higher
[07:05:37] <zeeshan> thats fine
[07:05:52] <zeeshan> ff1 will center the ferror
[07:05:59] <MacGalempsy> which one is velocity feedback?
[07:06:00] <zeeshan> right now youre trying to get it to stablize
[07:06:12] <zeeshan> youre tuning the position loop
[07:06:14] <zeeshan> er
[07:06:20] <zeeshan> are you using mesa cards?
[07:06:28] <zeeshan> 7i77?
[07:06:49] <zeeshan> bvb
[07:06:51] <zeeshan> gotta do dishes
[07:07:28] <MacGalempsy> yeah
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[07:27:11] <zeeshan> did you find the parameter?
[07:27:29] <zeeshan> ull see the oscillation in the ferror anyway
[07:27:33] <zeeshan> so its not a big deal if you didnt
[07:30:28] <bobo__> zeeshan: did you see my note on Franz Singer---- fax first then phone and refer to your fax-----have heard they are a 1 &1/2 person place trying to help the whole world
[07:30:44] <zeeshan> oh wow
[07:31:00] <zeeshan> i emailed them
[07:31:03] <zeeshan> if they dont respond ill fax
[07:32:21] <MacGalempsy> yeah. still working on it. i think it is getting better. let me post another pic
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[07:35:10] <MacGalempsy> https://www.flickr.com/photos/58181938@N03/16583298176/
[07:35:32] <MacGalempsy> you think that looks better?
[07:35:51] <zeeshan> yes
[07:35:53] <zeeshan> keep increasing P
[07:35:55] <zeeshan> till you oscillate
[07:36:25] <zeeshan> go in big steps
[07:36:26] <zeeshan> like 10
[07:36:27] <zeeshan> 20
[07:36:28] <zeeshan> :P
[07:36:42] <zeeshan> like you dont notice much change between 4 and 5
[07:36:52] <zeeshan> go 10-20
[07:36:55] <zeeshan> if still notice
[07:36:57] <zeeshan> jump another 40
[07:37:45] <MacGalempsy> how big should the oscilations be?
[07:37:57] <zeeshan> zoom into f-error
[07:37:58] <zeeshan> youll see em
[07:38:03] <zeeshan> itll be a nice sine wave
[07:38:16] <zeeshan> youll also audibly hear it
[07:38:22] <zeeshan> when its really bad
[07:40:51] <MacGalempsy> should it be an even oscilation over the whole tihng? what ferror scale should I be at?
[07:41:31] <zeeshan> yea fairly even
[07:42:03] <zeeshan> 2m
[07:42:09] <zeeshan> should b ok
[07:43:44] <MacGalempsy> https://www.flickr.com/photos/58181938@N03/16608694682/
[07:44:27] <zeeshan> you are oscillating
[07:44:50] <MacGalempsy> so down p
[07:44:52] <zeeshan> yea
[07:44:59] <zeeshan> was it oscillating at 100 ?
[07:45:40] <MacGalempsy> at 100 it is not on the 2m scale
[07:46:30] <MacGalempsy> yeah it is oscillating at 100
[07:47:28] <zeeshan> okay down more :p
[07:48:43] <MacGalempsy> https://www.flickr.com/photos/58181938@N03/15989595753/
[07:49:39] <MacGalempsy> you can tell im a noobite at this, but I will try to write a clearer explaination when this is done so more idiots wont need so much help
[07:51:38] <MacGalempsy> at 40 it oscilates, but the wave is not as uniform
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[08:04:41] <Deejay> moin
[08:05:26] <zeeshan> sorry was away
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[08:06:14] <zeeshan> still there?
[08:06:37] <bobo__> me ?
[08:06:42] <zeeshan> no MacGalempsy :P
[08:08:10] <MacGalempsy> yeah im here
[08:08:17] <zeeshan> keep decreasin :P
[08:08:34] <zeeshan> how does the motor sound?
[08:09:24] <MacGalempsy> I think they tuned the amps really well
[08:09:43] <MacGalempsy> did you see that last one I posted?
[08:09:49] <zeeshan> yea
[08:10:03] <zeeshan> thats still near resonance i think.
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[08:10:15] <zeeshan> its varying because of the dampening
[08:10:19] <zeeshan> natural dampening
[08:12:09] <zeeshan> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html
[08:12:13] <zeeshan> follow his guide! :P
[08:14:26] <bobo__> zeeshan did you find out if your heidenhan scales have reference marks at end of travel ?
[08:14:37] <zeeshan> bobo__: i tried to see
[08:14:38] <zeeshan> i didnt see any
[08:14:47] <zeeshan> i was logging index pulse
[08:14:53] <zeeshan> and slowly jogging near the axis limits
[08:14:57] <zeeshan> nothing shows up :P
[08:15:15] <MacGalempsy> hI have been following the guide, but its not like its cnc for dummies
[08:15:38] <MacGalempsy> with all the variables, it leaves a lot open for interpretation
[08:15:51] <zeeshan> theres only 3
[08:15:53] <zeeshan> p
[08:15:55] <zeeshan> ff1 ff2
[08:15:56] <zeeshan> :)
[08:16:56] <Jymmm> 123 132 213 231 312 321
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[08:58:36] <bobo__> zeeshan I forgot , thank's for installing the chip guards over the control cabinet's big gapeing holes. I kept wating for the Zot-Zap sound
[09:01:08] <archivist> phet sound
[09:01:35] <bobo__> that too
[09:03:03] <archivist> we used to make amplifiers at one job, regular occurrence :)
[09:03:27] <bobo__> tube type ?
[09:03:43] <archivist> hell no
[09:04:02] <archivist> I have no time for built in distortion :)
[09:04:20] <archivist> and designed in wear
[09:05:26] <archivist> we made kits for amateurs to home build, I started there fixing their returns
[09:05:43] <bobo__> yes but they also helped heat the place in the winter
[09:06:56] <archivist> I started work in the late 1960's fixing radios and tvs so soon learned why tubes were unreliable
[09:08:06] -!- mttr has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[09:10:02] <bobo__> 60's could take tubes to drug store to use tube checker -----try that with anti soical semiconductors
[09:11:07] <archivist> I dont think we used one at work, just swap them
[09:12:17] <bobo__> also was fun to watch weed wackers gather around pondering the glow
[09:12:36] <archivist> the heat made the contacts in the bases noisy as hell
[09:13:32] <bobo__> pick pick pick
[09:15:53] <archivist> other fun was microphonic tubes, feedback from the speaker sends it off
[09:18:03] <bobo__> how else do you think electric gutar started
[09:19:27] <archivist> feedback there is supposed to be speakers to guitar not to the amp
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[09:20:46] <bobo__> jimmey hendrix didn't care
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[09:22:14] <archivist> he was in his drug induced purple haze how could he notice :)
[09:24:43] <bobo__> no idea , but I still liked his version of the Star spangled banner
[09:36:49] <robinsz> so this 5i20 mesa card ... I am pretty sure last time I had it hooked up I had 4 channels of endcoders + PWM on the first connector, loads of general purpose IO on hte second connector ... but I can't remember what firmware that was, is there a list?
[09:38:15] <archivist> probably on the mesa site somewhere
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[09:39:59] -!- rob_h [rob_h!~robh@176.25.71.228] has joined #linuxcnc
[09:43:21] <robinsz> hmm, I guess I must have used svst8_4
[09:47:48] <robinsz> thats weird ... svst8_4 has encoders + pwm on sockets 2 and 3 ... I was deff. using socket 3 as gpio, becuase its all still there and wired up to a 7i37 on port 2
[09:48:12] <miss0r|shop> O_o
[09:49:02] <miss0r|shop> And i'm just standing here with my elbows deep in converting a mill to cnc :)
[09:49:37] <bobo__> what brand mill ?
[09:49:57] <miss0r|shop> Arboga u2508
[09:50:42] <miss0r|shop> At the moment I am milling the ball-nut mounts on my trusty'ol Roland camm-3
[09:51:21] <miss0r|shop> You guys have alot more experience with stepper/stepper controllers; is this kit worth while?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291363114707
[09:52:59] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[09:53:48] <miss0r|shop> i'm building a 16:40 (1:2,5) timing belt gearing for driving the ballscrew with 5mm pitch.
[09:57:43] <archivist> heh open the business seller info box
[09:59:22] <bobo__> be back later
[09:59:59] <miss0r|shop> archivist: what are you getting at?
[10:00:26] <archivist> funny how the chinese have warehouses for "local" delivery, I went to a Birmingham site to pick up spares for my car
[10:01:38] <archivist> same stuff just faster delivery I suppose
[10:01:52] <miss0r|shop> it's all about the taxes. They can do internal buisness to buisness transportation across boarders without paying taxers, and then they can send it locally and only pay regular taxes
[10:02:29] <archivist> those drivers look like the longshine ones but could be a copy
[10:03:22] <archivist> drivers look similar to the arc euro trade ones I have
[10:03:49] <miss0r|shop> And they work OK?
[10:04:48] <archivist> yes seem to
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_09_17_Barber_Colman_cnc/IMG_1830.JPG
[10:07:02] <robinsz> 1:2.5 reduction sounds a bit low to be honest
[10:07:25] <miss0r|shop> well, with that config 1step=0.01mm
[10:07:33] <archivist> resolution v speed, a compromise
[10:07:44] <robinsz> sounds a bit low
[10:07:54] <miss0r|shop> i.e. you are thinking it will be too slow?
[10:08:07] <robinsz> im thinking you wont get the stepper spinning fast enough
[10:08:59] <archivist> I regard steppers as slow anyway
[10:09:10] <archivist> just live with it
[10:09:31] <robinsz> yes, common mistake, steppers dont generate full power unti you hit the corner frequency
[10:09:52] <robinsz> people gear them low and then think they are slow because they stall out early
[10:10:05] <miss0r|shop> hmmm. What am I looking at here: Will they be too weak for standard operations? (impossible question)
[10:10:30] <robinsz> if you gear them low, you will think they are low power and stall early
[10:10:43] <archivist> as you accelerate the toque drops off a lot
[10:11:05] <zeeshan> bobo__: lol
[10:11:19] <robinsz> they are constant torque up to a certain point, and constnt power beyond that
[10:11:29] <robinsz> that point is called the corner frequency
[10:12:12] <robinsz> an efficient design will run beyond the corner frequency
[10:12:13] <archivist> in that image of the hobbing machine the two dials on the display are to keep the speeds in range
[10:12:54] <archivist> one parallel port for the encoder and the stepper driving the blank
[10:13:02] <robinsz> Maris of Gecko fame was spinning them up to 3000 rpm years ago, got to let em spin :)
[10:13:10] <zeeshan> archivist:
[10:13:19] <zeeshan> that gear hobber = sex
[10:13:29] <archivist> needs an fpga and servo to remove silly limits
[10:13:45] <zeeshan> you gotta teach me how a gear hobber works
[10:13:58] <zeeshan> like for example whats the largest diameter gear you can hob
[10:14:00] <zeeshan> on your machine
[10:14:03] <archivist> simple geared axes
[10:14:31] <zeeshan> well it looks more than that!
[10:14:35] <archivist> about 2 inch max 1 really
[10:14:36] <zeeshan> it looks a lot more rigid..
[10:14:52] <zeeshan> are you limited to spur gears only?
[10:15:01] <archivist> it is a very small 300lb machine
[10:15:15] <zeeshan> the pan looks 300 lb :-)
[10:15:18] <robinsz> you occasionally see big ones on auction sites
[10:15:42] <archivist> spur only because the head rotation is is a bit silly
[10:16:04] <zeeshan> no helical? :[
[10:16:05] <robinsz> there was a gear firm in B'ham a few years ago closed out ... they had stuff that did up to 3 metre diameter, it was incredible stuff to see
[10:16:26] <archivist> when the lead screw is cnced it may be possible to do small helicals
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[10:17:22] <archivist> better to attack the 5 axis for helicals although it is not rigid enough
[10:17:36] <zeeshan> archivist: so after you cut the gear
[10:17:45] <zeeshan> and you want to case harden it for example
[10:17:55] <zeeshan> is it necessary to go back and grind it?
[10:18:01] <archivist> I only make soft stuff
[10:18:03] <zeeshan> from other stuff i've done
[10:18:08] <zeeshan> *read i mean
[10:18:19] <zeeshan> you can get some serious distortion depending on the heat treatment and base metal
[10:18:25] <archivist> I know
[10:18:36] <zeeshan> no one seems to be able to answer how much
[10:18:57] <archivist> but for clocks and other low power gears soft state is ok
[10:19:09] <zeeshan> yea, but im interesting in automotive :/
[10:19:33] <zeeshan> the splines on the f150 pumps we made
[10:19:46] <zeeshan> they went to the induction furnace
[10:19:52] <zeeshan> and then they never got machined after
[10:20:00] <zeeshan> but the bearing surface next to it did..
[10:20:05] <zeeshan> (grinded)
[10:20:09] <archivist> make a cnc grinder with the cnc diamond fro wheel truing to form
[10:20:37] <archivist> or use a paste and "run in"
[10:20:47] <zeeshan> can't you rely on carbide
[10:20:50] <zeeshan> to bring it back to shape
[10:20:56] <zeeshan> or cbn inserts
[10:21:09] <zeeshan> do you _have_ to grind it
[10:21:40] <archivist> depends on limits I suppose and how rigid your machine is
[10:21:45] * SpeedEvil is taking the rather easier approach to making a helical gearbox.
[10:21:52] <SpeedEvil> Buy angle-grinder spares on ebay
[10:22:06] <archivist> you can get hobbing inserts
[10:22:17] <zeeshan> wtih stones ?
[10:22:18] <zeeshan> instead?
[10:23:25] <SpeedEvil> you can cut gears abrasively, but as above - you need to form the wheel
[10:24:12] <SpeedEvil> So you go one rev cutting out the meat of the gear, true the wheel to the exact desired shape, repeat another rev, and repeat until you have adequate tolerance
[10:25:46] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/lYAv20s.jpg
[10:26:37] <zeeshan> http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa341/tshearm/T-56%20Rebuild/ReverseGear1.jpg
[10:26:40] <zeeshan> does it look ground?
[10:27:41] <archivist> http://www.vargus.com/vardex/ see their gear milling I have some other data somewhere
[10:28:32] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: Look at the bits of the surfaces that the gears do not mesh on
[10:28:39] <archivist> bah photofukkit white screen
[10:28:58] <zeeshan> im looking at the involute
[10:28:59] <zeeshan> it doesnt look ground
[10:29:05] <zeeshan> it looks like its been machined
[10:29:07] <zeeshan> and hardened
[10:29:12] <zeeshan> case hardened
[10:29:29] <zeeshan> http://www.ls2.com/boggs/t56rebuild/Tranny20Rebuild20Speedo20sensor20snap20ring.jpg
[10:29:30] <archivist> relying on the user to "run it in"
[10:29:41] <zeeshan> heres another one
[10:29:45] <zeeshan> the only surface that looks ground
[10:29:48] <zeeshan> is the face of the gear..
[10:29:54] <zeeshan> and the diameter
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[10:30:43] <archivist> quite likely for the cheaper stuff to be hardened and not ground
[10:30:52] <zeeshan> t56 isnt a cheap trans!
[10:31:14] <archivist> define cheap :)
[10:31:19] <zeeshan> 500$
[10:31:31] <zeeshan> these are like 1800 used
[10:31:35] <zeeshan> 3000 new
[10:31:41] <archivist> not rolls royce aero engine price is it
[10:31:42] <zeeshan> thats damn expensive
[10:31:45] <zeeshan> haha
[10:32:16] <zeeshan> now that i think about it
[10:32:20] <zeeshan> since it doesn't look ground
[10:32:32] <zeeshan> no wonder these transmissions respond well to things like microshotpeening
[10:32:39] <zeeshan> it cleans up the surface
[10:32:58] <archivist> run it in will clean up the high spots too
[10:33:12] <zeeshan> so back to my original question
[10:33:20] <zeeshan> after heat treatment, is grinding necessary
[10:33:20] <zeeshan> lol
[10:33:36] <archivist> not on cheap sh*t
[10:33:42] <zeeshan> s
[10:33:47] <zeeshan> so automotive, no
[10:35:21] <archivist> production probably can be yes because they want reliability and a few hundred thousand miles from the box, after market sports stuff just needs to last half a USA mile
[10:35:37] <zeeshan> well this is a production trans
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[10:36:37] <moska> hallo an alle
[10:36:55] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/493rFCG.jpg
[10:36:57] <zeeshan> what the hell
[10:36:57] <moska> hi at all
[10:37:01] <zeeshan> even the cobra 8.8 differential
[10:37:06] <zeeshan> you can see the damn milling marks
[10:38:41] <zeeshan> http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/zilvia_album/P1010235.jpg
[10:38:46] <zeeshan> the pinion is polished / ground
[10:38:50] <zeeshan> but the ring gear isn't
[10:38:53] <zeeshan> weird
[10:40:53] <moska> I am looking for a man "magic33" from Berlin
[10:41:15] <zeeshan> hi
[10:41:24] <moska> someone knows him
[10:41:30] <zeeshan> i havent seen that user in here
[10:42:55] <moska> I have come to the chat over a toturial of him
[10:42:57] <archivist> !seen magic33
[10:42:58] <the_wench> Never heard of the entity magic33 you ask for
[10:43:23] -!- zeitue [zeitue!~z@67.221.132.133] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:45:15] <moska> Maybe has nic others. magic33 is the nic from youtube video
[10:45:41] <moska> he is from berlin
[10:46:09] <Deejay> hmm, wasn that IchGuckeLive?
[10:46:31] <Deejay> dunno why, but I have there a connection in mind ;)
[10:47:49] <archivist> ich has moved away from the internet, not contactable
[10:48:16] <zeeshan> how do you move away from internet
[10:48:16] <zeeshan> :D
[10:48:22] <Deejay> luckily ;)
[10:48:35] <archivist> he is in some remote valley
[10:48:45] <moska> on his video he said, "I and the other can help here"
[10:48:50] <archivist> Deejay++
[10:48:54] <Deejay> :D
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[10:49:08] <archivist> he often gave the wrong advice
[10:49:10] <zeeshan> moska: what is the youtube name ?
[10:50:00] <moska> magic33
[10:50:22] <zeeshan> magic33 is some person playing some video games
[10:50:24] <zeeshan> not linuxcnc :P
[10:51:12] <moska> momend
[10:52:24] <moska> magic33de
[10:53:56] <moska> but the video delet
[10:54:31] <moska> i have downlod berof
[10:55:23] <archivist> are it was ich I just found reference to him taking down his videos
[10:55:27] <archivist> ah
[10:55:38] <archivist> http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/33198337/
[10:55:42] <Deejay> yay, i was right :)
[10:56:26] <moska> also deutsch geht auch ?
[10:56:37] <archivist> moska, I would recommend just ask bout anything you want to know, that user is un contactable
[10:56:57] <Deejay> jo, magic33de aka. ich ist wohl für länger/immer weg
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[10:57:35] <moska> ???? what hapend
[10:57:43] <Deejay> (sorry, channel language is english)
[10:58:00] <archivist> he moved to the middle of nowhere to look after some property
[11:02:22] <moska> identify ASSY someone who is a servo-control
[11:02:27] -!- zeitue [zeitue!~z@67.221.132.133] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:06:13] <archivist> many do
[11:07:57] <moska> ?
[11:08:43] <archivist> the way to get help in IRC is to ask the real questions, not who has x, done y etc
[11:19:53] -!- Tecan [Tecan!~fasdf@unaffiliated/unit41] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:27:08] <moska> 'll be better.
[11:27:09] <moska> I've Parker Driver (I think) and would like to connect with the Mesa 7i77
[11:34:06] <moska> I'm not forward. either I have the driver connected incorrectly or not done something right in EMC
[11:37:07] <moska> ??
[11:38:49] <archivist> driver model number, how can people guess, any pictures so they can see
[11:39:20] <archivist> pastebin your config too
[11:40:27] <moska> am quite newbie at emc / linux
[11:40:28] <moska> and need support, best suited to German because I have so many ask
[11:43:34] <moska> model is HFC
[11:44:01] <moska> i think
[11:44:39] <archivist> that gets a hydraulic filter cart
[11:45:07] <archivist> http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.bb22d5a82bbb5b147cf26710237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=a2d9b5bbec622110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=EN&vgnextcatid=10125&vgnextcat=HYDRAULIC%20FILTER%20CART&vgnextdiv=687630&vgnextpartno=HFC%2060039-10&Wtky=
[11:46:29] <moska> HFC / AX
[11:46:44] <moska> thank you
[11:48:34] <archivist> an old parker digiplan item
[11:49:05] <moska> yes
[11:49:24] <miss0r|shop> i'm having an issue locating a seller of this type of ballnut for 1605:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ISEL-Type-3-16x4-Ballnut-for-16x4-Ballscrew-Spindle-CNC-Zero-Backlash-/310357247054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4842bbc44e
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[12:01:22] <archivist> moska, that driver was made obsolete 1995 20 years ago, I cannot find a manual
[12:02:02] <archivist> is there enough information on the unit to help you connect it
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[12:35:44] <moska> i have found pdf
[12:37:22] <moska> where can I send
[12:38:21] <archivist> just put the url in here so others can download too
[12:39:23] <moska> I have the PDF on the computer
[12:40:31] <archivist> put of a file sharing site
[12:40:36] <archivist> put on
[12:45:48] <robinsz> remind me ... does the interpreter support mirrored cooardinates?
[12:46:42] <robinsz> im machining 2 sided parts, I have to create 2 dxfs at moment, prepare 2 cam files, output 2 sets of gcode
[12:47:01] <robinsz> machine first side, flip sheet over, machine second side
[12:47:27] <robinsz> it would be nice to use 1 dxf, sets of toolpaths
[12:47:32] <robinsz> machine side 1
[12:47:36] <robinsz> flip it,
[12:47:48] <robinsz> flip workspace
[12:47:54] <robinsz> machine second side
[12:48:24] <robinsz> I forget whether the interpreter has a way to flip the workspace orientation
[12:54:09] <rob_h> i know G10 can rotate.. but i dont think there is a mirror in linuxcnc right now?
[12:57:36] <rob_h> maybe someone should write a G code ;) last time i ddi this i just used the NC Editor i have to mirror not that it helps you
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[13:13:30] <moska> archivist: you here
[13:14:07] <archivist> yes
[13:19:00] <moska> have you found
[13:19:08] <moska> the pdf
[13:19:13] <archivist> no
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[13:22:03] <moska> 4shared.com
[13:22:51] <moska> and search Digiplan
[13:23:28] <moska> http://search.4shared.com/q/1/Digiplan?view=ls
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[13:26:57] <moska> ? found#
[13:28:04] -!- deltamc [deltamc!~deltamc@105.156.237.178] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:29:56] <archivist> site does not work in my browser
[13:30:33] <deltamc> hi guys can i ask a noob question ?
[13:31:00] <SpeedEvil> no
[13:31:14] <SpeedEvil> (of course)
[13:31:22] <deltamc> good to hear that
[13:31:40] <deltamc> :D
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[13:32:52] <moska> what page do you know where I put it off
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[13:33:58] <deltamc> anyway my question is : first of all im from morocco cant get no atmega no pic no double layer pcb no nothing i live on old ics and stuff so what im asking is a simple lpt based 3 axis controller thats all single layer pcb if that ok
[13:35:51] <archivist> linuxcnc can use a parallel port on a PC, all you need to source is some form of breakout board and stepper drivers
[13:36:46] <deltamc> yes i know bro but problem all what i can find on internet is double layer pcb projects and i dont have double layer baords so
[13:36:48] <deltamc> !!!!!!!
[13:37:03] <deltamc> i can make all the problem is components cant find all here in morocco
[13:37:26] <archivist> what no ebay?
[13:37:41] <deltamc> yep
[13:37:47] <deltamc> third world bro
[13:37:48] <deltamc> :D
[13:38:08] <deltamc> only rich have international payments stuff and as u know im poor :D
[13:38:21] <SpeedEvil> No paypal?
[13:38:23] <deltamc> i have to make it my self
[13:38:40] <deltamc> nope no paypal no egold no liberity reserve no direct pay no nothing :D
[13:38:44] <archivist> so I use a uln200x chip to drive my stepper drivers using vero board
[13:39:11] <SpeedEvil> deltamc: Are there currency controls or import fees?
[13:39:17] <archivist> even individual transistors can be used
[13:39:22] <deltamc> yep
[13:39:23] <moska> https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Robotics/L298_H_Bridge.pdf
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[13:39:32] <deltamc> u pay 50% or price
[13:39:42] <moska> what thimk about the
[13:39:50] <deltamc> heuh cant find ics
[13:39:51] <deltamc> :D
[13:40:09] <deltamc> im gonna use mosfets scrapped from spu
[13:40:10] <deltamc> :D
[13:40:21] <deltamc> i just need the controller baord
[13:40:23] <deltamc> :D
[13:40:27] <deltamc> lpt controller board
[13:40:31] <deltamc> thats all
[13:42:58] <SpeedEvil> https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/country-worldwide- gives a 'sign up' when click on the moroccon flag
[13:43:06] <deltamc> looool
[13:43:16] <deltamc> and where is the visa card bro
[13:43:25] <deltamc> where is the card im gonna link to it
[13:43:29] <deltamc> nada nada dude
[13:43:29] <SpeedEvil> Ah - you don't have CC
[13:43:36] <deltamc> yep nope no cc
[13:44:09] <deltamc> no amex no plat no business no elektron no master no cirrus no nothing :D
[13:44:21] <SpeedEvil> You've checked you can't simply associate it with a bank account?
[13:44:24] <archivist> you dont need anything special, linuxcnc can also directly drive unipolar motors
[13:45:08] <deltamc> i know but i need 5 amps :) so i will need a controller baord then driver its a milling machine
[13:45:24] <archivist> see stepgen
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/stepgen.9.html
[13:45:25] <deltamc> i sick of chimicals n stuff it burn my eyes dude
[13:46:01] <archivist> you can use stripboard no pcb making involved
[13:46:22] <deltamc> i know
[13:46:35] <deltamc> but shit chiness stuff break always
[13:46:42] <deltamc> :)
[13:46:46] <deltamc> dude
[13:47:03] <deltamc> im asking just for a controller board schematic nothing else
[13:47:05] <archivist> so what is your real problem what are you trying to find
[13:47:06] <deltamc> thats all
[13:47:20] <deltamc> ok my real problem wait i show you
[13:48:38] <deltamc> http://www.cuteminds.com/index.php/en/optobreak
[13:48:55] <deltamc> this is a breakout board but its double layer board
[13:49:01] <SpeedEvil> meh
[13:49:04] <deltamc> i want it single layer
[13:49:09] <SpeedEvil> you can do it on veroboard even quite easily
[13:49:18] <SpeedEvil> yes, it's going to be messy
[13:49:24] <deltamc> yessssss
[13:49:30] <deltamc> thats the point
[13:50:06] <SpeedEvil> What?
[13:50:18] <SpeedEvil> So what if it's messy
[13:50:20] <deltamc> its gonna be messy
[13:50:28] <deltamc> i will not pass my exam
[13:50:34] <deltamc> and i will get my degree
[13:50:44] <archivist> single sided has to have links and be messy
[13:50:45] <deltamc> and i will not have a job
[13:50:50] <SpeedEvil> Jumpers on a single sided PCB can be done then
[13:50:56] <deltamc> and i will not have money to build shit load of stuff i want
[13:51:19] <archivist> are you expecting us to provide school work?
[13:51:24] <deltamc> fuck it i will do it on a veroboard
[13:51:28] <deltamc> loooooool
[13:51:45] <SpeedEvil> Veroboard - planned well and executed well can be acceptably neat.
[13:51:47] <SpeedEvil> Though large
[13:51:47] <archivist> you need to show effort you put in
[13:51:48] <deltamc> no im expecting you todo that but the fucking schoool im in are asking much from me
[13:51:52] <deltamc> :D
[13:52:02] <deltamc> ok i will show some effort
[13:52:08] <deltamc> thanks guys
[13:52:14] <SpeedEvil> Also -##electronics
[13:52:17] <deltamc> for the help i will start asap
[13:52:18] <deltamc> :D
[13:52:34] <SpeedEvil> is perhaps more on topic for the electronics side, because this isn't really CNC and you may get better help there
[13:52:44] <deltamc> yes
[13:53:12] <deltamc> thank you very much
[13:54:25] <Tom_itx> i thought all the rich went to party in Morocco
[13:54:55] <archivist> I used open collector 74 series on my first cnc, it is on vero board :)
[13:55:18] <SpeedEvil> archivist: I prefer cast iron
[13:55:32] <archivist> specially as the optos are in the drivers so the breakout did not need optos
[14:00:11] <Tom_itx> archivist you wouldn't have a mill example hal showing synchronous motion connections would you?
[14:03:34] <archivist> Tom_itx, do you mean geared axes?
[14:04:28] <archivist> or gantry
[14:05:32] <archivist> geared axes I used andypughs wiki example and converted it to suit my machine
[14:05:46] <archivist> gantry, never done one
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[14:09:28] <jthornton> wonderful searching for a gladevcp error and it only shows up at cnc-club.ru
[14:16:17] <robinsz> sigh ... you need to chnage the link for Win32DiskImager on this page:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Hybrid_Iso
[14:16:28] <robinsz> its infected with nagware
[14:17:06] <jthornton> anyone can edit the wiki pages
[14:17:38] <jthornton> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?BasicSteps
[14:18:06] * jthornton wonders who 'you' is?
[14:18:42] <archivist> is that the same as the royal we
[14:18:53] <jthornton> could be
[14:22:09] <robinsz> well, I tried that before, I assumed you had turned off edits
[14:22:33] <jthornton> why would you assume that you turned off the edits?
[14:27:03] <jthornton> emc/task/emctask.cc 389: interp_error: A file is already open
[14:29:57] <robinsz> there we go, i had the wrong name for the penguin
[14:30:09] micges_ is now known as micges
[14:30:30] <robinsz> poxy nagware
[14:32:07] <jthornton> well I've worked past that error and have a new one now lol
[14:32:46] * robinsz nods
[14:32:50] <robinsz> this is how life works
[14:33:36] <robinsz> right off back to the unit to find out of the people who originally built this machine bothered to cable up the index pulses on the encoders ...
[14:33:48] <moska> archivist, do you know a way that you look at the pdf
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[14:52:23] <moska> hello can anyone help with an old parker control
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[14:52:37] <moska> http://search.4shared.com/q/CCAD/1/digiplan
[14:53:02] <archivist> place the pdf where anyone can download easily to get help
[14:53:13] -!- asdfasd has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[14:54:14] <archivist> that site wants to take private info to send me advertising
[14:54:28] <moska> please say where
[14:54:35] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't have to be your private info
[14:55:05] <archivist> it looks for a login /me not playing that game
[14:57:08] <moska> sorry I've overlooked
[14:57:37] <moska> they know a suitable page
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[15:05:23] <moska> http://www.filefactory.ch/download/c47dc62e17b67d579983d507b6f9c2de.html
[15:05:33] <moska> so thet works
[15:07:04] <archivist> does it really 404 not found
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[15:07:26] <moska> http://www.filefactory.ch/download/c47dc62e17b67d579983d507b6f9c2de.html
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[15:07:45] <moska> mail ???
[15:08:22] <archivist> you need anyone in the channel to help you specially those that use servos
[15:09:30] <moska> yea
[15:09:36] <archivist> as you can see your link is a fail
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/grabs/Screenshot-16.png
[15:09:37] <moska> yes
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[15:12:01] <moska> and where can I upload as pdf
[15:13:41] <pcw_home> how big is the file?
[15:14:12] <moska> 1,22 MB
[15:14:39] <pcw_home> imagebin.ca or similar should work
[15:15:10] <Tom_itx> archivist, for spindle sync
[15:19:44] <archivist> Tom_itx, I think there are a number of examples out there, my mill has not yet had the hal file done although the encoder disk is made and mounted
[15:20:11] <archivist> I intend mine to have A,B and an index pulse
[15:23:54] <Tom_itx> i've just added that to mine, now trying to finish the glue code
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[15:25:15] <Tom_itx> still bench testing but i should see axis movement in the display and so far i haven't
[15:25:53] <moska> pcw_home,
[15:25:57] <moska> http://www57.zippyshare.com/v/vTOt153N/file.html
[15:26:18] <moska> archivist
[15:27:17] <moska> and finally go
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[15:31:41] <andypugh> I hate how download sites (including Github!) allow adverts on the download page that are a “download’ button....
[15:33:02] <andypugh> moska: Anyway, it looks like a standard +/-10V controlled velocity servo drive.
[15:33:12] <archivist> deliberate ploy of the advertisers, exceedingly poor practice
[15:33:33] <archivist> motor has 4 connections though
[15:33:36] <moska> really sorry I know no other way
[15:34:09] <archivist> ah the tacho are the other two
[15:34:36] <pcw_home> bbl dog walk time
[15:34:55] <andypugh> moska: Figuure 2-1 is pretty clear. LinuxCNC hardware goes to VELCOM1 and VELCOM2
[15:36:04] <andypugh> The CLM jumper lets you choose torque-mode or velocity mode. Velocity mode is easier to tune, so leave out that jumper if the tachometers work.
[15:37:19] <furrywolf> andypugh: many people are perfectly happy being evil and a drain on society. they often get into advertising and government.
[15:38:47] <furrywolf> andypugh: adblockplus gets rid of a fair percentage of them, and is a highly recommended install.
[15:39:32] <andypugh> I know enough to not be fooled. It is folk like my parents that I worry for.
[15:39:33] <archivist> except the advertisers adblock get its money from
[15:40:21] <furrywolf> just because it's a big extortion scam doesn't mean it's not useful. :P
[15:40:22] <moska> http://imagebin.ca/v/1sXonc09MflP
[15:41:01] <furrywolf> every time I use a computer without ABP, I have no idea how people use the internet like that. if abp didn't exist, I'd either write something similar, or browse with images off.
[15:41:35] <andypugh> moska: The brown/white shielded cables are where LinuxCNC would connect.
[15:41:39] <SpeedEvil> I wish in many ways that it was simply possible to pay for internet
[15:41:44] <SpeedEvil> ratehr than rely on ads
[15:42:04] <SpeedEvil> ads have fundamental problems - at teh moment everyone gets content - pretty much.
[15:42:17] <andypugh> moska: But rather than us guess the question. What is the question?
[15:42:48] <furrywolf> I wish people would be helpful to others out of goodwill and a sense of responsibility, rather than expecting money. I don't plan to ever charge for anything I put online, never have.
[15:43:37] <SpeedEvil> Servers are not free
[15:44:02] <furrywolf> no, they're not. I spend $22/month to keep mine up...
[15:44:02] <archivist> I like a donation and a thankyou, nothing after doing something is a bit raw
[15:44:33] <moska> how do I get the cards with 7i77 and EMC to run
[15:45:15] <archivist> what have you tried so far
[15:45:43] <moska> run the encoder and with engines is nothing
[15:46:58] <archivist> have you wired it correctly, show your wiring diagram
[15:47:52] <moska> perhaps the parker cards are not positioned correctly, or so
[15:48:00] <furrywolf> one of these days I want to start a toy review site... I won't have advertisements, but I will blatantly link to sites that give me a kickback. heh.
[15:50:29] <moska> andypugh, I have do it
[15:51:02] <furrywolf> I figure that as long as I state something to the effect of "please buy from one of these sites, as it pays for the bandwidth you just used", it's not as evil as ads.
[15:51:43] <andypugh> moska: You have 5i25 and 7i77 ?
[15:51:56] <moska> yes
[15:52:15] <andypugh> And when you say “is nothing” what do you mean?
[15:52:32] <andypugh> Do you have working encoder feedback?
[15:52:37] <andypugh> (Where are the encoders?)
[15:52:51] <moska> yes I havr
[15:53:03] <andypugh> Did you configure by hand or with pncconf?
[15:53:16] <moska> on motors button
[15:53:31] <moska> yes
[15:53:36] <andypugh> So, you have both tachometers and ancoders on the motors?
[15:53:55] <andypugh> (Sorry, tachometrs and encoders)
[15:54:16] <moska> but more simply by clicking
[15:54:21] <andypugh> Or did you remove the tachometers to fit the encoders?
[15:55:40] <moska> tachometers not have
[15:55:48] <andypugh> Ah.
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[15:56:56] <andypugh> In that case you need to configure the drives in torque-mode by fitting the jumper as described on page 6
[15:57:32] <andypugh> (What happened to the tachometers?)
[15:57:40] <moska> yes I think sometimes that way. of connections were only motors and encoders
[15:58:17] <moska> from 7i77
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[15:59:47] <andypugh> Anyway. What is Not happening. What do you think should happen?
[16:01:38] <moska> I move the motors with arrow keys. first
[16:06:21] <andypugh> And?
[16:06:26] <moska> if the parker cards are on, the motors must not be moved as with stepper motor
[16:06:44] <furrywolf> moska: what is your native language?
[16:07:26] <moska> germany and russia
[16:08:00] <andypugh> Servo motors won’t lock or go to a controlled position until encoder feedback is correct and the PID loop is tuned.
[16:08:25] <furrywolf> I think Deejay speaks german... I know a couple people here do, but my memory is failing me on who right now.
[16:10:46] <moska> which makes the PID loop
[16:11:23] <andypugh> The “loop” is the PID HAL component, the encoder feedback and the commanded position from LinuxCNC
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[16:12:50] <moska> ok
[16:14:54] <moska> experiment okay go
[16:15:08] <andypugh> So, you need the encoders to work, you need the PID to be tuned and you need the 7i77 card to be in control of the drive.
[16:15:48] <moska> thank you thank you for the attention
[16:15:49] <andypugh> Sorry, this is distracting me from my own work.
[16:15:52] <moska> yes
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[16:18:34] <moska> see you later
[16:18:46] <robinsz> I've been very impressed with pnconf so far
[16:19:05] <robinsz> very easy to use
[16:19:10] <robinsz> flexible
[16:20:48] <moska> I think so and guess that does not run the driver
[16:21:19] <furrywolf> anyone have a 12V motor in the 3/4-1.5hp range they want to get rid of?
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[16:22:06] <furrywolf> preferable something with ball bearings, as I'll be sideloading the shaft with a belt.
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[16:22:22] <robinsz> ? thats a failry big motor
[16:22:39] <furrywolf> no, 1hp is small in the grand scheme of motors. :P
[16:22:53] <robinsz> its big in the grand scheme of 12V motors
[16:23:29] <furrywolf> I have an air compressor with a bad motor, and I'm thinking of converting it to 12V... I already have a 5hp 36v motor I could use, but I'm saving that for a different project...
[16:23:51] <robinsz> now .. if you want a big motor ... you should see the one in my sander
[16:24:13] <robinsz> I have no idea how many hp it is .. but it is big.
[16:24:36] <robinsz> id guess 350mm dia, 500mm long
[16:25:03] <archivist> older motors were huge for the hp
[16:25:09] <robinsz> i guess
[16:25:16] <robinsz> its a 600mm belt sander
[16:26:39] <furrywolf> the 2hp motor on my planer is pretty big... so's the 5hp dc one...
[16:28:57] * furrywolf wonders what the duty cycle of a truck starter is
[16:31:34] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nilfisk-Advance-2-5-HP-36V-Wind-Turbine-Generator-Magnet-Motor-/251737418207 would be .8hp at 12v... but I don't want to spend $150 making my crappy compressor work.
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[16:32:05] <furrywolf> or, hmm... voltage-hp might be square, not linear.
[16:35:33] <robinsz> here we go .. photos of toys :)
[16:35:34] <robinsz> https://drive.google.com/a/redpoint.org.uk/folderview?id=0BzW3I8OUwOByS2M4ZU1hdUVkbzQ&usp=sharing
[16:36:52] <robinsz> actually, forget that, it seems to want you to sign in. google crap.
[16:37:00] <furrywolf> I have photos of some of my toys too, but there might be minors in the channel...
[16:38:24] <robinsz> google drive has a LONG way to go to catch up with Dropbox
[16:39:19] <furrywolf> google drive will never catch up, because it's intentionally evil, like all other google products.
[16:40:41] <robinsz> gmail seems fine, we use that a lot
[16:40:55] <robinsz> but, whatever
[16:41:52] <robinsz> so, anyway ... this semi-auto spindle on the machine ...
[16:42:15] <robinsz> it has a "press to release" button for the ISO30 toolholder
[16:42:27] <robinsz> pneumatic drawbar release
[16:43:34] <robinsz> is there some built-in method to handle this? )ie only activate power to the solenoid when you detect zero RPM on drive?
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[16:46:20] <_methods> well on most machines you can only remove a tool while in mdi but that doesn't really apply to linuxcnc
[16:50:38] <_methods> i'm sure you could attach some sort of safety switch that you have to flip before you can fire the drawbar
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[16:56:22] <furrywolf> should be easy enough to add that (only listening to the button when the spindle is off), but I don't know how.
[16:56:29] * furrywolf hasn't played with hal yet
[17:02:25] <Tom_itx> motion.spindle-on false
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[17:05:29] <dirty_d> how do you guys determine your feedrate and pitch for helical interpolating holes?
[17:05:54] <dirty_d> i have a trial of gwizard, but im not sure I trust what its telling me
[17:06:37] <Tom_itx> feed is determined by sfm for the tool, pitch is units per rev
[17:06:43] <dirty_d> for a 0.4" hole helically interpolated with a 5/16" endmill at 2000rpm its telling me 3in/min with a 0.36" pitch
[17:06:51] <dirty_d> 0.36" is deeper than the hole
[17:06:58] <dirty_d> the holes is only 0.125" deep
[17:07:58] <Tom_itx> what's the thread pitch?
[17:08:11] <Tom_itx> err nm, you're not threading
[17:11:34] <dirty_d> the depth of cut isnt as critical right? that pretty much is only influencing the cutter deflection right?
[17:11:36] <SpeedEvil> dirty_d: It may not need to go all the way round the hole in the helix - if it does a circle at the bottom
[17:12:01] <Tom_itx> why not plunge cut to depth and then cut the diameter?
[17:12:07] <Tom_itx> use centercutting EM
[17:12:15] <Tom_itx> it's not that deep
[17:12:21] <dirty_d> well this is the roughing pass
[17:12:29] <dirty_d> i think for finishing i would just circular mill it
[17:12:45] <dirty_d> i was going to rough it to 0.390" then take the last 0.1" off
[17:13:06] <dirty_d> 0.01" i mean
[17:13:08] <Tom_itx> so make the finish pass .010-.020 off the roughing pass and include it in the cuts
[17:13:22] <Tom_itx> .1??
[17:13:25] <Tom_itx> oh
[17:13:26] <Tom_itx> nm
[17:13:57] <Tom_itx> plunge to depth, rough cut to within .010 then finish one more round
[17:14:43] <dirty_d> straight down plunge?
[17:14:58] <Tom_itx> if you have a centercutting em i would
[17:15:09] <Tom_itx> it's just not that deep
[17:15:26] <dirty_d> ok
[17:15:47] <Tom_itx> plunge in the center, move out and cut the diameter
[17:16:08] <Tom_itx> probably easier on the mill anyway
[17:16:39] <Tom_itx> you generally wanna ramp or helix at half speed anyway
[17:16:42] <SpeedEvil> yeah - for .125" deep - ...
[17:16:48] <dirty_d> sorry, 0.25" deep
[17:16:49] <Tom_itx> for that reason
[17:16:54] <Tom_itx> still...
[17:16:59] <dirty_d> it is a pretty small mill too, about 300lbs
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[17:19:32] <Tom_itx> i would do it on my sherline and it's alot lighter than yours
[17:20:22] <CaptHindsight> ghetto version low pressure injection molding
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150217-turn-a-3d-printer-into-an-injection-molding-machine-to-create-small-and-detailed-parts.html
[17:23:08] <dirty_d> ok
[17:23:30] <dirty_d> think i can just get away with interpolating the hole if i need to fit a bearing in it?
[17:23:47] <dirty_d> i do have a boring head
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[17:30:25] <bobo__> Hi Pete
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[17:32:22] <PetefromTn_> Hey bobo
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[17:33:42] <bobo__> wht is the temp. in your garage ?
[17:33:55] <PetefromTn_> dunno have not gone out there yet today LOL..
[17:34:11] <PetefromTn_> it is actually a lot warmer than it has been the last week this weekend.
[17:34:23] <PetefromTn_> I think the high is supposed to be like 45 or so..
[17:36:05] <bobo__> 45 degree means you don't ice pick the coolant tank
[17:36:07] <PetefromTn_> honestly it has been a pretty miserable week around here.... cold as shit and ice freakin' everywhere.
[17:37:15] <PetefromTn_> reminds me how much I want to be back in South Florida :D
[17:37:43] <bobo__> here we go again
[17:37:57] <PetefromTn_> yup sorry man..
[17:38:40] <_methods> heheh 72 here
[17:38:48] <bobo__> sorry heck , I am envious
[17:38:51] <_methods> cookin pulled pork on the egg righ tnow
[17:39:12] <PetefromTn_> where are you methods? I thought you were in Scarolina?
[17:39:17] <_methods> yeah i am
[17:39:24] <PetefromTn_> and its 72!!!
[17:39:27] <_methods> yeah man
[17:39:29] <PetefromTn_> WTF
[17:39:30] <_methods> i'm in charleston
[17:39:41] <_methods> only a few hours from jacksonville
[17:39:41] <PetefromTn_> Oh you are over by the damn beach then I guess...
[17:39:55] <_methods> damn skippy
[17:40:02] <PetefromTn_> you suck man ;)
[17:40:21] <_methods> hahah the south is callin man
[17:40:22] <bobo__> N.C. is the one hit with cold
[17:40:23] <PetefromTn_> I think we will be getting out of here this year tho...
[17:40:35] <PetefromTn_> KY is an ice cube..
[17:40:52] <PetefromTn_> Tn was really cold record breaking cold actually..
[17:41:07] <Tom_itx> 19F
[17:41:20] <PetefromTn_> according to the local news it was -23F on MT. leconte on Friday..
[17:41:44] <Tom_itx> good i wasn't there
[17:41:48] <PetefromTn_> today feels like a heat wave in comparison to friday..
[17:42:52] <PetefromTn_> I am thinking I need to start really tearing into the remaining interior work our house needs done so we can get it sold...
[17:43:30] <Tom_itx> funny how we fix things all up when we're ready to leave somewhere
[17:43:30] <CaptHindsight> was up to 30 here yesterday and tonight back down to -10
[17:43:49] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know right...
[17:44:04] <PetefromTn_> honeslty I have been FIXING this house up for a long time now ever since we bought it.
[17:44:11] <PetefromTn_> It needed a LOT of work...
[17:44:28] <PetefromTn_> we got it for a really good deal because of that.
[17:44:50] <PetefromTn_> but now if we can sell it for anywhere near our asking price we should do quite well
[17:45:02] <bobo__> Pete was looking at Zillow web site -- and seemed to me there are many houses bought for $50K and being flipped for $250K in Florida
[17:45:17] <PetefromTn_> Oh man don't say that shit...
[17:45:20] <CaptHindsight> _methods: here today's funny including pics of where to stick it
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150218-two-london-students-develop-3d-printed-chewing-gum.html
[17:45:47] <PetefromTn_> there are a lot of deals on homes in the South Florida Area.
[17:47:30] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: is there anyway to track the history of those houses and how that area fared in the past 20 years?
[17:48:10] <PetefromTn_> Dunno man. Southwest Florida which is actually quite beautiful has tons of homes that were basically abandoned and now are bank owned.
[17:48:26] <bobo__> look at their taxes vers bought sold date
[17:48:30] <PetefromTn_> whole communities just emptied out..
[17:48:56] <PetefromTn_> Lehigh acres is one that was just turned into a ghost town as I understand.
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[17:49:12] <CaptHindsight> I was thinking more about storm damage vs economic collapse
[17:49:47] <PetefromTn_> no I am talking about the economic collapse...
[17:50:19] <PetefromTn_> Lived in several parts of Florida for most of my life and never had more than a screen door damaged but anything is possible.
[17:50:19] <CaptHindsight> maybe the long term plan was to sell those houses to the Chinese
[17:50:32] <bobo__> why did it empty out -Lehigh acres ?
[17:50:39] <PetefromTn_> should have been a lot of them had their shitty drywall...
[17:50:40] <_methods> CaptHindsight: ahhahahahhahaha
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[17:50:43] <_methods> what is wrong with them
[17:51:15] <PetefromTn_> there are thousands of homes that were destroyed by the chinese drywall damage
[17:51:23] <PetefromTn_> not just in Florida either.
[17:51:29] <CaptHindsight> they were built pre-08'
[17:51:48] <PetefromTn_> I don't remember the affected dates..
[17:51:57] <CaptHindsight> sold during the mortgage scams
[17:52:15] <PetefromTn_> but basically if it has that shit in it the entire house needs to be gutted to the CBS walls and redone internally..
[17:53:37] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1Nq086QB1Q Love this song...
[17:53:53] <CaptHindsight> how many years can a foreclosed home sit unoccupied before it starts to decay into needing lots of repairs?
[17:54:16] <PetefromTn_> probably not more than a few I would think..
[17:54:19] <CaptHindsight> water leaks, insects, mold, mildew etc etc
[17:56:07] <bobo__> don't forget if electric is off ----sump pump is off
[17:56:58] <CaptHindsight> they keep squatters out since if you live in them long enough you can claim the property
[17:57:10] <CaptHindsight> or stay for free
[17:57:44] <Rab> bobo__, not sure if basements are common in Florida. They're basically unheard of in Central Texas.
[17:57:50] <PetefromTn_> LOL Maybe I need to start squattin' hehe
[17:58:03] <PetefromTn_> very rare to see a basement in florida...
[17:58:05] <CaptHindsight> check the FL laws on squatting
[17:58:06] <Rab> And places like New Orleans where you're at the water table.
[17:58:39] <CaptHindsight> I never saw a basement in FL except for commercial buildings
[17:58:55] <CaptHindsight> same for So Cal
[17:58:58] <PetefromTn_> me neither..
[17:59:04] <PetefromTn_> it is hard to keep the water out..
[17:59:22] <PetefromTn_> almost always a conrete slab with CBS construction...
[17:59:25] <CaptHindsight> no reason since the frost line is at the surface or non-existent
[18:00:26] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: :)
http://www.wikihow.com/Squat-in-Abandoned-Property
[18:00:28] <Rab> Not to dispute the point that an uninhabited structure will fall into disrepair, or that lack of operating sump pump wouldn't be a serious issue for houses that do have basements.
[18:01:03] <_methods> yeah when the water table is 1' below your slab its kinda tough to have a basement lol
[18:01:49] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight I am just kidding man... I have no intentions of sqatting anywhere LOL
[18:01:58] <PetefromTn_> besides where would I put my damn machines!!
[18:02:08] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[18:02:36] <PetefromTn_> altho watching that damn show Wicked Tuna I been considering selling all my shit and buying a nice boat when I get there LOL...Just kidding!!
[18:02:45] <Rab> I know people who've done long-term squatting in NOLA and Oakland, it's a way of life if you don't mind harrasing/being harassed and don't have much else to do.
[18:03:21] <CaptHindsight> get your own reality show: Pete's Tuna
[18:03:35] <PetefromTn_> Wow my wife just turned on Pandora and set it on her favorite channel Moby Radio.. some damn cool tunes in here I never heard before....
[18:03:41] <PetefromTn_> GOOD IDEA!!
[18:03:45] <PetefromTn_> Pete's Mahi Mahi..
[18:03:57] <PetefromTn_> That's living man...
[18:04:17] <_methods> sounds like a porno
[18:04:18] <PetefromTn_> Its been so damn long since I had some REALLY fresh seafood...
[18:04:20] <_methods> pet's tuna
[18:04:23] <_methods> pete's even
[18:04:28] <PetefromTn_> hehehehehehe
[18:04:30] <CaptHindsight> tasty tuna and tasty waves
[18:04:44] <PetefromTn_> nice dreams...
[18:05:13] <CaptHindsight> had a flashback there to Spicoli
[18:05:35] <PetefromTn_> Love that movie..
[18:05:56] <_methods> so i got a couple of those shar's noga mag base holders with arms and they rock
[18:06:04] <_methods> 1/3 the price of noga
[18:06:07] <PetefromTn_> OH man I want one...
[18:06:09] <_methods> and basically work just as good
[18:06:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/02/21/exploding_kittens_kickstarter_most_valuable_ever_8million/
[18:06:22] <PetefromTn_> does the magnet base seem like a piece of shit?
[18:06:27] <_methods> i just ordered 2 more of the little mag bases w/ arm
[18:06:33] <_methods> yeah the mag is a tad weak
[18:06:38] <_methods> but the mag is the cheap part
[18:06:49] <PetefromTn_> Pheobe Cates....what a babe!!
[18:06:51] <_methods> i can always replace that with a good mag base if i wanted to
[18:07:06] <CaptHindsight> she still looks great
[18:07:19] <PetefromTn_> I never really had an issue with the magnetism but I have had two now strip the thread out of the top..
[18:07:50] <PetefromTn_> does she... Nice.
[18:08:31] <_methods> oh well that sux i havent' messed with takin the arm off so no stripped threads yet
[18:09:05] <furrywolf> lol and grr. lol, someone actually wrote a wikihow on it. grr, because wikihow has joined the ranks of webpages you can't scroll a page down on.
[18:09:08] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: I used to have friends near Daytona that had a house with a hangar. It was one of those communities where the drives we also taxiways to the runway
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[18:09:23] <CaptHindsight> house for people, hangar for machines
[18:10:00] <PetefromTn_> nice.... I grew up in Wellington Florida and they had the Aero Club there.. Big huge grass runway and houses like that...
[18:10:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bifold.com/assets/photooftheday/shaw-hangar-home-2.jpg I like this one
[18:11:22] <bobo__> one hanger ? or have your own hanger
[18:11:45] <CaptHindsight> just looking at pics
[18:12:11] <PetefromTn_> looks like I could just drive my machines in that one LOL
[18:13:50] <furrywolf> is it just firefox, and webdesigners use other browsers and don't notice, or do these webmasters intentionally break scrolling? I can't imagine it's just firefox, as it's doing exactly what the standards say it should do...
[18:13:53] <robinsz> ugh ... so THATS where all the space went on this USB stick install of linuxcnc
[18:14:03] * robinsz removes libreoffice
[18:14:48] <furrywolf> lol
[18:14:56] <bobo__> that type of stuff sounds great, but I refuse to be goverend by a HMA
[18:16:22] <PetefromTn_> Home maintenance associations?
[18:16:30] <bobo__> yes
[18:16:39] <PetefromTn_> OH jeez I got some stories for ya
[18:16:58] <PetefromTn_> we once lived in a Condo on Hutchinson Island right on the beach
[18:17:07] <PetefromTn_> I was going to junior college at the time
[18:17:13] <bobo__> let me get some new depends on
[18:17:22] <PetefromTn_> and working at Carlos and Charlies...
[18:17:30] <furrywolf> a relative moved into a place with a hoa. they have tons of stupid laws... you can't even remove a dead shrub without a permit, you can't put your garbage out at night even though it's picked up early in the morning, you can't own a truck, etc, etc, etc...
[18:17:34] <PetefromTn_> awesome seafood restaurant in Jensen beach..
[18:17:50] <_methods> i constantly plot the destruction of my HOA
[18:17:52] <PetefromTn_> One morning I went out to start my Jeep Wrangler to head to work
[18:18:00] <PetefromTn_> it was dead..
[18:18:07] <PetefromTn_> so I popped the hood
[18:18:10] <_methods> i have a 10 year plan where they'll all be in jail or destitute
[18:18:22] <PetefromTn_> looked like the battery post was loose
[18:18:31] <PetefromTn_> so I went inside and grabbed my litttle toolbox
[18:18:41] <PetefromTn_> went back out and started working on it.
[18:18:41] <_methods> no workin on your car in your driveway sir
[18:18:57] <PetefromTn_> needed something else inside the house
[18:19:01] <PetefromTn_> went in there to get it.
[18:19:08] <PetefromTn_> gone for five minutes at best.
[18:19:12] <PetefromTn_> come back out
[18:19:17] <PetefromTn_> my hood is down
[18:19:21] <PetefromTn_> by toolbox is gone
[18:19:28] <PetefromTn_> and noboby knows anything
[18:19:45] <PetefromTn_> next day we get a nice little nastygram in the mail warning of working on cars in the parking lot
[18:19:58] <PetefromTn_> two days later my toolbox is found in front of my door
[18:20:04] <PetefromTn_> I was PISSED!!!!
[18:20:12] <CaptHindsight> petty tyrants
[18:20:19] <CaptHindsight> the worst people
[18:20:30] <PetefromTn_> Frackin' old bastards with nothing better to do..
[18:20:34] <_methods> yeah i had some tool bag in my yard measuring my grass with a ruler
[18:20:36] <furrywolf> solution: work on your car in front of one of the board's houses. preferably forget to bring a drain pan.
[18:20:40] <_methods> i shot him with a paintball gun
[18:20:55] <PetefromTn_> LOL Seriously!!
[18:20:58] <_methods> the police were like man plz don't do that again
[18:21:01] <PetefromTn_> Beautiful!
[18:21:06] <_methods> i was like i told him to get out of my yard
[18:21:09] <_methods> and he got all shittin
[18:21:14] <PetefromTn_> You should have video taped it...
[18:21:17] <_methods> so i grabbed my gat
[18:21:23] <_methods> he thought i was bullshittin
[18:21:32] <PetefromTn_> PRICELESS!!
[18:21:38] <_methods> i didn't have my cams up at that point
[18:21:42] <_methods> i have cameras up now
[18:21:50] <_methods> zoneminder baby
[18:21:56] <_methods> i put cams up just for shit like that
[18:22:24] <Rab> _methods, if you're not straight up tall tale telling, that's the best thing I've heard all week.
[18:22:25] <_methods> fuckin janitors at work wanna be HOA tyrants
[18:22:41] <_methods> im not bullshittin i've had so many wars with my HOA
[18:22:57] <furrywolf> I'd never move to a place with a HOA...
[18:22:58] <_methods> it's insane
[18:23:03] <_methods> i didn't know
[18:23:05] <PetefromTn_> YOU ARE MY HERO MAN!!
[18:23:06] <_methods> i'd never heard of one
[18:23:12] <furrywolf> there is no place worth putting up with one
[18:23:16] <_methods> oh i wish i could take it all back
[18:23:18] <furrywolf> heh
[18:23:24] <_methods> fuck HOA
[18:23:28] <CaptHindsight> nosey neighbors are always a pain
[18:23:40] <PetefromTn_> that is hilarious..
[18:23:45] <_methods> dude he was in my yard measuring my grass with a fuckin ruler
[18:23:52] <_methods> i was fuckin livid
[18:23:56] <CaptHindsight> now my only neighbors are deer
[18:24:11] <_methods> i popped a gasket
[18:24:22] <furrywolf> _methods: did he have to open any kind of gate to get in?
[18:24:26] <_methods> nope
[18:24:26] <PetefromTn_> jeez that is perfect...my respect for you has just risen off the charts man...
[18:24:32] <furrywolf> fix that. :)
[18:24:38] <_methods> you can't put a fence up
[18:24:43] <_methods> in the front yard
[18:24:45] <furrywolf> once they open a gate, you can arrest them for tresspassing.
[18:24:46] <_methods> HOA rules
[18:24:58] <furrywolf> hrmm. post no tresspassing signs?
[18:24:59] <_methods> it's insane
[18:25:10] <_methods> just never get involved with an hoa
[18:25:15] <_methods> it is not worth it
[18:25:19] <Rab> Probably can't post signs of any type.
[18:25:36] <_methods> no you cant do shit without getting permission from the architectural review board
[18:25:42] <_methods> it's horrible
[18:25:48] <XXCoder1> If someone held gun to my head and said move to HOA or die
[18:25:51] <Rab> Unless they say something like BUSH/QUAYLE.
[18:25:55] <XXCoder1> well I wouldnt be here talking with you guys
[18:25:58] <furrywolf> lol
[18:26:13] <_methods> all i can say is that it is my life's mission to destroy my HOA hahah
[18:26:20] <Rab> XXCoder1, you'd be busy mowing the lawn?
[18:26:27] <furrywolf> as far as I can tell, the only people who really like HOAs are busybodies with _no lives_, and who want to make sure their neighbors are the same way.
[18:26:33] <_methods> one of my buddies got elected to his board and got all his buddies in
[18:26:41] <_methods> then they voted to abolish the HOA
[18:26:42] <XXCoder1> well someone would be busy mowing lawn I'm 6 feet under yes
[18:26:55] <furrywolf> _methods: get yourself elected to the board. talk to all your neighbors and see how many other people don't like the HOA. in most HOAs, any resident can run...
[18:26:57] <_methods> then voted HOA out
[18:26:58] <PetefromTn_> can you do that/
[18:26:59] <CaptHindsight> reminds me of the giant dinosaur sculptures near Sacramento
[18:27:24] <XXCoder1> careful with ho, there is some places where hoa has authority to grab your house and sell it cheap over $20 fee
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[18:27:30] <_methods> i don't like to talk about this hoa stuff my blood pressure is kickin up
[18:27:30] <XXCoder1> *hoa
[18:27:45] <PetefromTn_> Dinosaur sculptures?
[18:27:58] <_methods> back to making chips
[18:27:59] <_methods> heheh
[18:28:08] <furrywolf> if I remember right, the giant dinosaur statutes were bought by right-wing whackjobs who now use them to talk about how dinosaurs didn't actually exist and the earth was made by jesus or whatever particular variety of crack they're smoking.
[18:28:18] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: looking for the pics
[18:28:48] <PetefromTn_> my wife said something about william land park or zoo or somehting
[18:28:54] <PetefromTn_> she is from Sacto
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[18:29:20] <PetefromTn_> I lived there for a couple years when I served in the USCGAS Sacramento on the HC130's
[18:32:20] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: a dentist wanted to put a large sign outside of his office and it violated the town ordinance except if it is considered artwork...
[18:32:45] <bobo__> methods are there any places ,where you live , that are similar to what OxTool or J Kilroy have ? Shop with apartement
[18:33:16] <CaptHindsight> so because the town council was so anal about it he had giant 20ft dino sculptures placed in in the front in crazy colors
[18:34:38] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[18:35:09] <_methods> not that i know of
[18:35:10] <PetefromTn_> I don't remember any dinosaur sign there but could be. I used to ride my sportybikes all around that place when I lived there...
[18:35:23] <_methods> i'm sure you could get a shop and just live in it
[18:35:40] <_methods> if my wife ever kicks me to the curb that's what i'll be doing
[18:36:04] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: it might have been in nearby Roseville or Auburn, trying to find a link
[18:36:05] <PetefromTn_> I would love to do that but every time I brought up the idea my wife balks...
[18:36:23] <_methods> that's why i said whenever my wife kicks me to the curb lol
[18:36:25] <PetefromTn_> I used to go to the Roseville Flea market all the time with Dacia..
[18:36:52] <_methods> no HOA in an industrial park
[18:37:02] <furrywolf> a relative is looking into moving into a place with a nice shop space... it's a two story house, and the downstairs is a 2-car garage next to an equal-sized "rec room"... he's thinking the wall between them could be replaced by a couple lallyposts...
[18:37:35] <CaptHindsight> I got an industrial space and converted the offices
[18:37:44] <furrywolf> I wouldn't mind living in it, but I can't afford to buy a house. apparantly it's a rotten out dump, but it's on an acre of land, has a large barn, and the aforementioned shop space.
[18:39:50] <bobo__> lallyposts.-----dam tomato stakes ----proof of how cheep and stupid the builder is/was
[18:39:56] <furrywolf> I'd love a 4-car-garage shop...
[18:39:58] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k-OM7F-DYM Cool mellow tune..
[18:39:58] <furrywolf> and a barn too!
[18:41:00] <_methods> heh sounds like rjd2
[18:41:01] <CaptHindsight> the only problem is if you're too far out in the middle of nowhere the internet access tends to be poor
[18:41:14] <PetefromTn_> that is on the moby channel too..
[18:41:14] <furrywolf> like where I am. :P
[18:41:42] <PetefromTn_> they just played theivery Corp. they got a similar sound..
[18:41:56] <PetefromTn_> really cool mellow stuff
[18:41:58] <PetefromTn_> Love it.
[18:42:42] <CaptHindsight> it would be better if the FCC fixed the issues with broadband providers
[18:43:15] <_methods> yeah sneaker pimps, thievery, massive attack
[18:43:22] <_methods> all kinda similar
[18:43:35] <robinsz> haha "arrest them for trespassing"
[18:43:40] <PetefromTn_> I love massive attack
[18:43:54] <_methods> yeah
[18:43:56] <robinsz> since when was trespass a felony?
[18:43:59] <_methods> one of my favorites
[18:44:17] <PetefromTn_> just damn good music you can listen to anywhere.
[18:44:21] <_methods> when it's area 51
[18:44:30] <furrywolf> robinsz: at least here, you can perform a citizen's arrest if you personally observe a misdemeanor in progress.
[18:44:31] <_methods> or a nuclear weapons station
[18:44:48] <PetefromTn_> or on Y12
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[18:45:10] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: it was Auburn and these were some of them
http://www.cra.sh/attraction/21641/Great_Statues_of_Auburn
[18:45:13] <robinsz> really? certainly in UK, trespass is a misdemeanour, so not arrestable
[18:45:22] <robinsz> all you can do is ask them to leave
[18:45:47] <robinsz> I thought in US you could only arrest for a felony
[18:45:57] <robinsz> misdemeanours were non arrestable
[18:46:27] <PetefromTn_> nope..
[18:46:57] <furrywolf> you can't perform one if you only suspect the crime was comitted, or if someone else tells you, etc... for a misdemeanor you have to personally witness it. and if you make a false arrest, prepare to be sued for all you're worth.
[18:47:37] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/i8YBBmf.jpg Is it me or is that the baddest VW EVA!!!
[18:47:57] <furrywolf> for a felony, you only have to have good cause, but for a misdemeanor, you have to see it.
[18:48:53] <furrywolf> robinsz: this could well vary greatly between states. I'm in california.
[18:48:59] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Damn those really are huge huh..
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[18:50:25] <furrywolf> there's also exceptions to that, where you can arrest someone for a misdemeanor without having been present, if they're considered especially bad crimes... drunk driving, spousal abuse, etc.
[18:50:59] <CaptHindsight> downloading an mp3
[18:51:28] <PetefromTn_> of?
[18:51:47] <CaptHindsight> adding to his list of crimes ^^
[18:51:56] <furrywolf> lol
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[18:52:50] <PetefromTn_> ah
[18:53:33] <CaptHindsight> was thinking about low pressure injection molding after that article...
[18:53:57] <robinsz> furrywolf, I was just reading the claifornia law on it
[18:54:04] <CaptHindsight> they usually make aluminum tooling
[18:54:16] <furrywolf> california actually makes citizen's arrests reasonably easy... which is surprising given california's attitude that you should just shut your brain off and let the cops do all your thinking for you.
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[18:54:39] <robinsz> furrywolf, basically, if you dont have a "no trespassing" sign up at the edge of the property, you can only ask them to leave, if they don't leave, you can arrrest
[18:55:04] <CaptHindsight> if you could print an epoxy graphite mold it could hold up for hundreds to K's of shots
[18:55:09] <furrywolf> robinsz: hence why I suggested he put up no trespassing signs. :)
[18:55:35] <robinsz> which is why you live in america
[18:55:58] <robinsz> personally, I dont give a crap if someone walks across my lawn
[18:56:08] <furrywolf> there's also laws where gates/fences are relevant, but I don't remember the details. if they have to climb a fence, open a gate, etc, then you can presume they're up to no good, unlike just walking onto an unfenced lawn.
[18:56:10] <PetefromTn_> unless they have a ruler...
[18:56:28] * robinsz shrugs
[18:56:46] <robinsz> I have an office in cali, I know what its like out there
[18:56:52] <CaptHindsight> punji sticks
[18:56:59] <PetefromTn_> ROFL
[18:57:38] <robinsz> the place seems to breed some very weird peoplr
[18:58:00] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAGZ3m_9N_8 Sofa Surfin' LOL
[18:58:23] <furrywolf> robinsz: head up to the far northern part. we're less weird up here. :P
[18:58:31] <PetefromTn_> ain't that the truth... my wife is from Sacramento LOL
[18:58:37] <robinsz> yeah, we are down in Ventura
[18:58:45] <robinsz> retard city
[18:58:54] <PetefromTn_> I used to live in Oceanside
[18:58:59] <PetefromTn_> and San DIego
[18:59:02] <CaptHindsight> how desperate for control or bored do you have to be to want to measure someone else's lawn?
[18:59:02] <furrywolf> up here you can be a gun-totin' liberal granola-eating hippie driving a diesel truck with a buck rack on the grille and no one thinks twice. :P
[18:59:05] <PetefromTn_> beautiful down there..
[18:59:16] * furrywolf has never found another part of the country with redneck hippies
[18:59:22] <PetefromTn_> I know right.. what a jackass..
[19:00:00] <robinsz> well, that would not happen in socal
[19:00:13] <robinsz> in socal there is no friggin water, grass does nto grow
[19:00:26] <PetefromTn_> we had grass?
[19:00:32] <PetefromTn_> and not that kind LOL
[19:00:48] <furrywolf> plenty of water here... the last storm dumped over 16" on some area here.
[19:00:55] <robinsz> we have been shooting in the hills just north of the 101, it literlally is a desert
[19:01:03] <furrywolf> (yes, close to a foot and a half of rain. at once.)
[19:01:15] <robinsz> it used to be green im sure, there are the remains of plants and trees
[19:01:23] <robinsz> but its just desert noe
[19:01:23] <furrywolf> no desert around 101 here. trees as far as you can see.
[19:01:25] <robinsz> *now
[19:01:44] <robinsz> 101 just west of LA
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[19:01:55] <robinsz> yeah, I know it goes norht
[19:02:24] <furrywolf> yeah, I try to avoid that end of the state, for lots of reasons.
[19:02:24] <robinsz> and we have the silly Cali gun rules too
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[19:02:45] <robinsz> you know about the 80% complete lower rule?
[19:02:52] <furrywolf> the gun laws here are mostly only enforced if the cop doesn't like you for some other reason.
[19:03:01] <_methods> CaptHindsight: the guy is a total fruitcake
[19:03:23] <_methods> one night i was up late workin on some stuff and went outside to get some air
[19:03:44] <robinsz> for those that dont, the lower receiver is the "gun" part of the gun, the other bits are just accessories, so its the receiver you have registered
[19:03:44] <_methods> i look over at his house and he's sitting on the 2nd story eve outside a window on the roof in his underwear
[19:03:52] <furrywolf> want to take your ak out plinking? no problem. but if you're on meth or spotting deer...
[19:04:04] <robinsz> but you can sell them as "parts" if they are 80% complete
[19:04:28] <robinsz> theres a guy down here in Ventura who sells 80% AR lowers
[19:04:34] <robinsz> and has a Haas VF2
[19:04:37] <PetefromTn_> should have popped him with your paintball gun again..
[19:04:55] <robinsz> you buy the lower, pop it in the vice, press the "start" button yourself ... ;)
[19:05:07] <furrywolf> of course, even spotting deer is rarely enforced... I've seen purpose-built deer spotting rigs driving around. lol
[19:05:10] <CaptHindsight> _methods: I used to live in posh suburb of Chicago. I used to get stopped by the police for taking a walk between 2-5am.
[19:05:22] <PetefromTn_> I would make that shit with my machine but I am afraid of the popo and there are so many assholes making them now there is probably not any money in it..
[19:06:02] <robinsz> yeah, rumour has it they will legislate it out of existence this year
[19:06:03] <_methods> yeah i grabbed a real gun when i saw that shit
[19:06:14] <_methods> all i could think about was private pyle
[19:06:25] <CaptHindsight> heh
[19:06:31] <_methods> was just waitin for him to hop down off the roof and head my way
[19:06:33] <robinsz> everyone in CA is tooled up
[19:06:53] <robinsz> the gun shows are crazy busy
[19:06:55] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD1sW8NIjyk Cooool.
[19:07:22] <PetefromTn_> I think he loves you dude....
[19:07:24] <furrywolf> robinsz: up here, I think the average gun ownership is around five per capita. :)
[19:07:34] <robinsz> sounds about right :)
[19:07:48] <robinsz> no 50 cal for you though :P
[19:07:49] <_methods> he's a janitor at the local middle school
[19:08:01] <_methods> president of the HOA though
[19:08:09] <furrywolf> robinsz: yeah, you have to drive out of state to buy one of those, and not tell anyone.
[19:08:14] <PetefromTn_> Lovely... LOL
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[19:08:19] <robinsz> Arizona dude :)
[19:08:32] <_methods> they say absolute power corrupts absolutely but i'm pretty sure minimal power has an equal or worse effect
[19:08:35] <robinsz> "I;ve owned thsi from before the ban"
[19:08:42] <PetefromTn_> I was in Arizona when they had the massive Floods..
[19:08:51] <robinsz> .416 is still legal though
[19:08:56] <PetefromTn_> we Flew the HC130 in there
[19:09:02] <robinsz> and the various big Cheytac rounds
[19:09:03] -!- anth0ny_ has quit [Quit: anth0ny_]
[19:09:17] <PetefromTn_> to refuel the Coast Guard Black Hawks that were picking people up off their rooftops..
[19:09:32] <zeeshan> bobo__: dont you sleep
[19:09:54] <PetefromTn_> Fuel up heavy and shit. Fly in, land, refuel until you are ALMOST dry repeat..
[19:09:59] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[19:10:20] <furrywolf> .510 is legal here.
[19:10:31] <robinsz> yep
[19:10:34] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkd4vGZuXc0
[19:10:38] <robinsz> theres a
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12C0R09ApW8
[19:10:45] <furrywolf> stupidly ungodly expensive, but legal.
[19:10:58] <robinsz> theres a French calibre, like .50 bmg, just 2mm shorter
[19:11:15] <furrywolf> and you can't find "multipurpose" rounds at gun shows. :P
[19:11:24] <PetefromTn_> no we didn't do any air to air refueling..
[19:11:40] <PetefromTn_> just landed at the local boneyard airport and waited for them to land
[19:11:56] <PetefromTn_> That place is almost surreal..
[19:12:09] <furrywolf> of course, at >$20/round, you wouldn't want to use them for plinking anyway...
[19:13:13] <PetefromTn_> Jeez that Heli almost bought the Farm...
[19:14:17] <CaptHindsight> _methods: I often find that they are ex school teachers, police or welders :)
[19:14:40] <PetefromTn_> Hey I weld....;)
[19:15:17] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: did you see the makeshift welders outfit pic?
[19:15:55] <PetefromTn_> you mean the chinese guy with the rubber gloves and foster grants hehe
[19:16:04] <CaptHindsight> heh
[19:16:25] <furrywolf> rubber gloves? that's fancy. I found some pics online and saved them a while back... sec
[19:16:51] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf:
http://photo.sf.co.ua/g/177/8.jpg
[19:16:55] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/welder1.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/welder2.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/welder3.jpg
[19:17:20] <furrywolf> yeah, that's high class.
[19:17:38] <alex4nder> that's amazing
[19:17:40] <PetefromTn_> OMG what the hell is that thing..
[19:17:54] <CaptHindsight> rudimentary cave dwellers arc welder
[19:17:55] <PetefromTn_> is that a DIY welder of the highest quality??
[19:18:13] <furrywolf> :P
[19:18:27] <PetefromTn_> SO MUCH FAIL!!
[19:18:36] <furrywolf> I think it's made from unrolled cans or something...
[19:18:53] <CaptHindsight> paper insulation for the windings
[19:19:20] <alex4nder> if you were in a really poor area, and had that capability, you'd be a rockstar
[19:19:38] <furrywolf> if you want to compare non-osha-approved welding practices, I've yet to find any pictures that top those. :)
[19:19:39] <syyl> that guy will weld everything
[19:19:43] <CaptHindsight> we take it all for granted but can you imagine having to make it all from scratch, even the wire
[19:19:54] * alex4nder looks at his miller inverter.
[19:20:06] <Rab> Looks like win to me.
[19:20:07] <syyl> from the trailer hitch on a toyota landcruiser up to nuclear plant piping ;)
[19:20:10] <PetefromTn_> jeez Rockstar.... That is amazing.
[19:20:42] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Hardly fail.
[19:20:47] <Rab> Not sure I could build a better transformer from scratch in that guy's shoes. I think I might improvise a better method of compressing the windings.
[19:21:16] <furrywolf> alex_joni: ohh, want to send me it? :P
[19:21:23] * furrywolf has several welders, but none are inverter
[19:21:26] <CaptHindsight> no UV glass or gloves, they guy looked Swedish before he started
[19:21:33] <Rab> Easier to laugh at that welding mask, but maybe the alternative was nothing?
[19:21:39] <PetefromTn_> Jymmm agreed man if you had twiks, newspapers and bailing wire to make a welder from.....do as well...I would not.... Hmmmm
[19:21:41] <zeeshan> http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k459/deckelite/Machining/TravailDeckelFP3-reprisepassagesdeduritescadreCannondale8_zpsae516035.jpg
[19:21:45] <syyl> facing the arc without a shield
[19:21:49] <syyl> he takes it like a man ;)
[19:22:11] <syyl> "uv rays? i dont bother."
[19:22:16] <zeeshan> http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s448/AlfaGTA105/DSC01394_zpspv40qxcu.jpg
[19:22:22] <zeeshan> horizontal spindle opens so much opportunity!
[19:22:24] <furrywolf> the secondary looks to be made of either reused transmission line, or chainlink fence.
[19:22:27] <zeeshan> so cool
[19:22:43] <syyl> gotta love the deckel FP ;)
[19:22:49] <syyl> ah
[19:22:50] <zeeshan> syyl i just found out my mill
[19:22:51] <syyl> alfaGT
[19:22:55] <zeeshan> has horizontal spindle too! :D
[19:22:56] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: heads for a straight 8 or V16?
[19:22:58] <syyl> that one is on practical machinist
[19:23:04] <zeeshan> yes syyl
[19:23:13] <syyl> of course your micron has
[19:23:17] <syyl> Oo
[19:23:21] <zeeshan> i didnt know lol
[19:23:23] <zeeshan> i thought it was rumors
[19:23:25] <syyl> all euro-toolroom mills have!
[19:23:26] <zeeshan> cause you couldnt see it
[19:23:37] <PetefromTn_> you really did not know it had one?
[19:23:39] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: straight 8
[19:23:42] <furrywolf> looks more like a block than heads...
[19:23:46] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i thought it was rumors lol
[19:23:49] <zeeshan> cause i couldnt see it
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[19:23:54] <zeeshan> it was literally hidden behind the head
[19:23:55] <PetefromTn_> that machine could not have that much X travel does it?
[19:24:09] <zeeshan> they reindex
[19:24:17] <PetefromTn_> Oh Ok
[19:24:22] <furrywolf> it doesn't need that much x travel, only half of it. it looks like it uses two heads.
[19:24:25] <PetefromTn_> Looks like five fuckin feet hehe
[19:24:31] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/A1y9f
[19:24:32] <zeeshan> pics
[19:24:42] <zeeshan> now i have to modify another set of keys :/
[19:24:51] <syyl> deckels never where known for their long ways ;)
[19:24:52] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: have you ever seen the older style injectors where the ports were changeable/serviceable?
[19:24:52] <zeeshan> syyl: youre in germany right?
[19:24:54] <syyl> *travels
[19:24:55] <syyl> yes
[19:25:04] <PetefromTn_> I have always said if I ever got another manual mill it would undoubtedly be a Horiz/Verti.
[19:25:05] <zeeshan> do you know a good source to get spare parts?
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[19:25:15] <furrywolf> syyl: if moska comes back, it's your job to help him. we need someone who speaks german. :)
[19:25:21] <zeeshan> i really need a drawbar tube for my hydraulic drawbar
[19:25:23] <zeeshan> mine is scored
[19:25:37] <syyl> i know a few for deckel machines
[19:25:39] <syyl> but mikron?
[19:25:40] <syyl> hm
[19:25:45] <zeeshan> syyl i bet its same
[19:25:49] <zeeshan> they all use ott jakobs drawbars
[19:25:52] <Tom_itx> zeeshan did you get that part out?
[19:25:57] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yea
[19:25:59] <zeeshan> it scored the wall
[19:25:59] <Tom_itx> or screw it up trying?
[19:26:00] <zeeshan> lol
[19:26:06] <zeeshan> well it was scored from before
[19:26:11] <Tom_itx> no, the 5000lb scored it :D
[19:26:13] <zeeshan> which is why it was jammed
[19:26:15] <zeeshan> nooo
[19:26:18] <Tom_itx> k
[19:26:22] <zeeshan> i noticed a ridge before i tried to disassemble it
[19:26:25] <zeeshan> it was getting jammed in it
[19:26:30] <Tom_itx> so clean it up
[19:26:31] <zeeshan> and it wasn't the ridge we saw in the drawing
[19:26:37] <Tom_itx> use a cylinder hone
[19:26:41] <zeeshan> its deep
[19:26:45] <zeeshan> like 20 thou
[19:26:57] <Tom_itx> it's not under pressure is it?
[19:27:02] <Tom_itx> clean it up with a hone
[19:27:14] <zeeshan> well there might be a tendency for the red part to get jammed in there
[19:27:32] <zeeshan> 95.100.001.2.6 & 95.100.207.2.1
[19:27:34] <zeeshan> i need those parts
[19:27:38] <zeeshan> spring packs and tube
[19:27:58] <zeeshan> whoops
[19:28:02] <zeeshan> first part number is wrong
[19:28:05] <zeeshan> thats the whole assembly :P
[19:28:47] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vCog4O8.jpg
[19:28:55] <zeeshan> 95.100.207.2.1
[19:29:05] <zeeshan> 95.100.814.4.2
[19:29:06] <furrywolf> you finally got it apart I take it?
[19:29:14] <zeeshan> yes
[19:29:26] <archivist> hmm belvilles
[19:29:42] <furrywolf> and it's worse than a cylinder hone can fix?
[19:29:46] <zeeshan> yea
[19:29:57] <furrywolf> how good are your lathe skills? :P
[19:30:00] <zeeshan> the belleville area is a rough finish
[19:30:09] <zeeshan> but the part where the orange, red, green things ride
[19:30:11] <zeeshan> is almost a mirror finish
[19:30:15] <zeeshan> i think it's hard chromed
[19:30:24] <zeeshan> which is typical in hydraulics
[19:30:27] <furrywolf> also, are you SURE it's worse than can simply be put back together with new seals?
[19:30:38] <zeeshan> yea
[19:30:42] <zeeshan> it needs a rebore and hone
[19:30:42] <zeeshan> to fix it
[19:30:52] <zeeshan> there are no oversize seals
[19:31:09] <zeeshan> i was thinking about just making it if i cant find a replacement
[19:31:25] <zeeshan> 9 pairs of belleville packs were shatrtered
[19:31:28] <zeeshan> !
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[19:31:31] * furrywolf has found new seals to make things that look toasted work fine...
[19:31:31] <zeeshan> no wonder it wasn't holding
[19:31:40] <Deejay> nabend
[19:31:46] <Deejay> & re
[19:31:58] <archivist> feed it new belvilles
[19:32:33] <zeeshan> goal is to reverse engineer the cylinder today and have it in cad
[19:32:42] <zeeshan> and the bellevilles, do some calcs
[19:32:50] <zeeshan> and see how many are needed in that space to made the force correct
[19:33:03] <archivist> I have a catalogue of them somewhere
[19:34:14] <zeeshan> i know these parts exist in germany :{
[19:34:21] <zeeshan> i need a german contact!
[19:34:30] <zeeshan> i emailed franz singer, hopefully they get back.
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[19:36:04] <zeeshan> i'd also like an overarm support for this
[19:36:31] <archivist> anaco is the data/brochure I have here for them
[19:37:20] <zeeshan> link to anaco?
[19:37:47] <archivist> this is a real paper brochure :)
[19:37:50] <zeeshan> lol
[19:37:56] <zeeshan> do they exist still? :D
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[19:39:41] <archivist> no idea may have been gobbled up
http://www.bellevillesprings.com/
[19:40:09] <XXCoder1> http://gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/jub.jpg
[19:40:14] <XXCoder1> crazy
[19:41:59] <archivist> zeeshan, yup anaco gobbled
http://www.dpaonthenet.net/article/5445/Bissell-Disc-Spring-Range-Now-Available-From-Spirol.aspx
[19:42:18] <zeeshan> doh
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[19:42:55] <archivist> was a while ago that I got some for a job
[19:43:19] <zeeshan> mcmaster carries em
[19:43:29] <zeeshan> these ones dont look polished
[19:43:34] <zeeshan> prolly why they failed :P
[19:43:56] <archivist> usually are left black/dark
[19:44:12] <archivist> hold the oil better
[19:44:24] <zeeshan> oil?
[19:45:12] <archivist> run dry and they will break I would think
[19:45:19] <zeeshan> they were dry
[19:45:24] <zeeshan> no grease on em
[19:45:45] <zeeshan> i think the cylinder is 9" long
[19:45:53] <zeeshan> and only 4" of it needs to be polished
[19:45:59] <zeeshan> and hard chromed
[19:46:06] <zeeshan> 1.5" diameter bore
[19:46:29] <zeeshan> it's definitely replicatable on the lathe
[19:46:31] <archivist> this brochure mentions chemical black and oil
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[19:49:19] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vCog4O8.jpg
[19:49:24] <zeeshan> the only thing that seems challenging is
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[19:49:32] <zeeshan> accurately finding the center of that ball bearing seat
[19:49:41] <zeeshan> and how deep it is.
[19:49:54] <archivist> seems there is a DIN standard some are made too
[19:50:03] <zeeshan> the depth i can find by shoving 2 ball bearings and measuring diameter
[19:50:13] <zeeshan> but the location lengthwise, im not sure.
[19:50:22] <zeeshan> archivist: for disc springs?
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[19:51:17] <archivist> yes DIN2093
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[19:54:42] <archivist> your spring part number does not match what I have here
[19:55:15] <furrywolf> getting 60A from my solar panels right now... nice sunny day!
[19:55:41] <furrywolf> bouncing between 60A and 61A. charge controller is rated for 60A, so it's probably limiting itself.
[19:55:57] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: is that the hydraulic operated drawbar actuator?
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[20:07:11] <bobo__> CaptHindsight zeeshans last .jpg is the hydraulic operated drawbar actuator for his Mikron mill vertical head
[20:08:03] <CaptHindsight> thanks, I was going to help him find a new one cheap
[20:08:24] <bobo__> hope you do
[20:08:52] <renesis> he needs to just put a big lever with a handle on top of the mill for the drawbar
[20:09:04] <renesis> train some monkey to watch and LED and pull lever
[20:09:46] <bobo__> DMG is in Chicago-----possible similar parts
[20:09:52] <renesis> or you can use a banana conveyor instead of LED
[20:09:59] <CaptHindsight> press button, 120V encourages monkey to pull lever, gotcha
[20:10:11] <renesis> well
[20:10:21] <renesis> i mean youd have to wire the right parts of the monkey up
[20:10:32] <renesis> and probably rigidly mount the monkey
[20:10:48] <CaptHindsight> easier said than done
[20:10:58] <renesis> probably cheaper than banana conveyor in the long run
[20:11:16] <renesis> you need a monkey compressor tool to mount the monkey
[20:11:37] <bobo__> mounting the monkey ?
[20:11:43] <renesis> rigidly
[20:12:19] <renesis> one side of monkey to lever for drawbar, other side of monkey to column
[20:12:39] <renesis> then you have to figure out the actuation polarity of the monkey
[20:14:20] <renesis> probably not something you want to bench test
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[20:23:45] <Guest91168> hey folks - does anyone have a link to a hal config example for using with an AC spindle driver which takes dir/step input?
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[20:24:53] <Guest91168> or a link to documentation? I'm a bit unsure about the best way to work a system that can take speed setting at the GUI as well as doing rigid tapping, but isn't worked off analogue 0-10v
[20:26:24] <andypugh> Guest91168: You would need to set the stepgen for the spindle to belocity-mode then it sends steps at a specified rate rather than to a specific position.
[20:26:49] <Guest91168> ahhhh thanks, that helps to understand the terminology
[20:26:55] <andypugh> (err, velocity mode)
[20:27:02] <Guest91168> I'll go read some more and see if it helps!
[20:27:14] <Guest91168> much appreciated
[20:27:16] <andypugh> Parallel port or Mesa card?
[20:27:19] <Guest91168> parallel
[20:27:32] <andypugh> loadrt stpegen mode=0,0,0,1
[20:27:53] <Guest91168> excellent
[20:28:01] <andypugh> net spindle-speed motion.spindle-speed-abs-rps => stepgen.3.velocity
[20:28:23] <andypugh> setp stepgen.4.scale {the right number}
[20:28:52] <andypugh> Just let me check the docs on stepgen, I just had a moment of doubt…
[20:29:53] <andypugh> I was, indeed, wrong: loadrt stepgen ctrl_type=p,p,p,v
[20:31:15] <Guest91168> ok,makes sense. Does lcnc deal with the a phase and z encoder inputs when in velocity mode to sort the Z axis rate?
[20:31:38] <Guest91168> (or actually I guess it does spindle speed from z axis rate?_
[20:32:47] <andypugh> Thinking further, you probably don’t want to use the -abs version of spindle speed. If you use the version that goes negative for anticlockwise then the dir-pin of the stepgen will do the right thing.
[20:33:11] <andypugh> During rigid tapping the Z-axis is slaved to the spindle.
[20:33:27] <Guest91168> dear god, you're a mine of info
[20:33:35] <andypugh> (you can stop the spindle and wind the table up and down with the spindle :-)
[20:33:49] <Guest91168> haha that would be funny to see
[20:34:22] <furrywolf> there's videos of people doing that with lathe threading, haven't seen one for tapping.
[20:34:22] <andypugh> There is a nice example of it working for a lathe threading move on Youtube.
[20:34:39] <Guest91168> right, going to try configuring it that way and do some more reading
[20:34:58] <furrywolf> I need to make a spindle encoder before I can do that.
[20:35:56] <Guest91168> fortunately my motor upgrade comes with a 2500ppr encoder and I'm geared 1:1
[20:36:11] <Guest91168> (ABZ)
[20:36:33] <andypugh> that ought to work fine
[20:37:21] <Guest91168> getting better. I seem to have fallen on the ideal upgrade with only mild knowledge of the system!
[20:37:32] <furrywolf> as long as it's gears and not belts, and you can't change the gear ratio and forget to change the software...
[20:37:53] * furrywolf thinks encoders live on the other end of the gears
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[20:42:05] <Guest91168> It's belted but timing belted and won't be changed. Encoder should be on the far end but since my bearingsmax out at the max speed of the motor I don't think I'll change anything!
[20:43:08] <furrywolf> ok, as long as you know that. :)
[20:43:13] <furrywolf> and the drive has low enough backlash
[20:44:38] <Guest91168> Should be fine for my tasks I think - bearly a couple of degrees of backlash which should be OK for tapping I'd think
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[20:55:19] <ssi> plasma table is powered up and motors jog
[20:55:32] <ssi> but I can't home it or do anythin gwith it til I can get that p2 adapter :/
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[21:15:18] <moska> maybe can someone tell me where are the three color-coded lines, and how to demonstrate the
[21:15:27] <moska> http://imagebin.ca/v/1sZRAQhzKlLG
[21:16:00] <_methods> machining is so much more fun without some jackass askin you if you're done yet every 5 minutes
[21:17:14] <moska> thank you
[21:17:35] <PetefromTn_> I know right LOL..
[21:18:03] <PetefromTn_> thats my biggest weakness really. I am NOT FAST at this stuff..
[21:18:32] <XXCoder1> _methods: hey ya done yet
[21:18:49] <XXCoder1> _methods: hey ya done yet
[21:18:53] <XXCoder1> heh
[21:19:43] <_methods> hahah right
[21:20:20] <_methods> yeah workin on your own stuff in the garage won't help the speed thing that's for sure lol
[21:20:38] <_methods> now i'm not going to want to machine anything unless i have a beer in arms reach
[21:20:57] <XXCoder1> and phone for 911 on other side
[21:21:07] <XXCoder1> mill and beer heh
[21:21:28] <_methods> mill + beer = heaven
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[21:22:32] <zeeshan> nice ssi
[21:22:34] <zeeshan> got pics of the plasma table?
[21:22:54] <_methods> i'm going to have to go get a talking doll and reprogram it to say "are you done yet"
[21:23:42] <PetefromTn_> well I am trying to work on OTHER peoples stuff in the shop not just my own.
[21:24:04] <PetefromTn_> When it is OTHER PEOPLES STUF... I go faster as possible without lunching parts LOL.
[21:24:18] <moska> maybe can someone tell me where are the three color-coded lines, and how to demonstrate the
[21:24:19] <moska> http://imagebin.ca/v/1sZRAQhzKlLG
[21:24:25] <PetefromTn_> I am just saying that even working in other shops I have never been the fastest guy in the shop
[21:25:08] <zeeshan> _methods
[21:25:12] <_methods> yo
[21:25:18] <zeeshan> this is why i hate having people sit around while ure doing the work
[21:25:25] <_methods> hehe
[21:25:29] <zeeshan> most people have zero care on the process
[21:25:31] <zeeshan> they just want their shit done
[21:25:44] <zeeshan> and will be going through my stuff
[21:25:46] <zeeshan> while im working
[21:25:52] <zeeshan> makes me wanna snap!
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[21:26:08] <zeeshan> if theyre going through my tool box
[21:26:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah you could go apeshit and shoot em with your paintball gun hehe
[21:26:13] <zeeshan> ill be like do you know how much that cost ?
[21:26:16] <_methods> yeah
[21:26:21] <zeeshan> and that usually makes them stop
[21:26:23] <_methods> going through your toolbox?
[21:26:25] <zeeshan> yea
[21:26:30] <zeeshan> the nerve on some people
[21:26:31] <_methods> don't ever do that in a real shop
[21:26:38] <robinsz> youd get thumped
[21:26:38] <_methods> you'll get your ass kicked
[21:26:41] <PetefromTn_> I'd be kicking someones ass if they were going thru my toolbox...
[21:26:57] <cnc> hello is someone German
[21:27:00] <zeeshan> it's one think if you ask
[21:27:09] <zeeshan> its another when you just start opening drawers cause youre bored
[21:27:28] <XXCoder1> yeah I never use someones toolbox unless they had given me permission to
[21:27:32] <PetefromTn_> My Grandfather always told me...NEVER mess with another mans tools or means of making a living....It is just that simple.
[21:27:34] <_methods> yeah don't
[21:27:53] <zeeshan> do you guys let others use your tools?
[21:27:56] <zeeshan> like borrow some of your tools
[21:28:00] <zeeshan> ive stopped that recently
[21:28:01] <_methods> never touch another man's penis, his french fries, his toolbox or his girlfriend
[21:28:04] <zeeshan> LOL
[21:28:05] <zeeshan> nice
[21:28:07] <PetefromTn_> yeah I do in the shop I worked in..
[21:28:16] <zeeshan> well not for the day
[21:28:17] <robinsz> no touch the girlfriend?
[21:28:20] <zeeshan> but like a friend borrowing your tools
[21:28:23] <zeeshan> like a big socket
[21:28:23] <robinsz> really, is that an actual thing?
[21:28:26] <PetefromTn_> and I have used other guys tools when given permission...
[21:28:34] <zeeshan> in a shop environment its diff
[21:28:37] <zeeshan> cause youll get it back the same day
[21:28:40] <zeeshan> or at some point
[21:28:56] <zeeshan> and usually people are competent in handling tools :/
[21:28:58] <_methods> if i have to borrow something 2x i buy it
[21:28:58] <robinsz> I always though it was OK to touch someone elses gf, providing two things:
[21:29:01] <PetefromTn_> yeah only time I ever did not get it back the same day was when it was like a vise stop or something setup in a machine
[21:29:04] <robinsz> 1) they dont see ya do it
[21:29:12] <robinsz> 2) you clean up the mess afterwards
[21:29:18] <_methods> hahah
[21:29:25] <PetefromTn_> robinsz Its thinking like that can get a man shot....LOL
[21:29:29] <robinsz> thats what shop rags are for, right?
[21:29:54] <zeeshan> i got one of my big sockets back today
[21:29:58] <zeeshan> it has hammer marks on the drive side..
[21:30:18] <zeeshan> =/
[21:30:41] <robinsz> so, is there a hal snippet for manual tool change?
[21:30:46] <zeeshan> only i am allowed to hammer my sockets :{
[21:30:51] <Rab> cnc, ask syyl
[21:31:17] <PetefromTn_> why is it that whenever it is Oscar time it is all over the regular news? I mean does anyone really give a rats ass who wins an oscar?
[21:31:27] <zeeshan> robinsz:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/hal-examples.html#_manual_toolchange
[21:31:52] <robinsz> basically, need to make sure the spindle_stopped signal from the spindle motor os active before parkign the head near the front of thr table and enabling the power to the "drop the too" pushbutton
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[21:32:46] <unfy> people still pay attention to the news ? i've tried to watch the local news, but there's not really 30min (including commercials) worth of stuff going on. national news is painful to watch due to all the spin and bias and b.s.
[21:32:59] <zeeshan> robinsz: do you have a relay for tool change actuation?
[21:33:04] <_svh> can't stand tv.
[21:33:17] <robinsz> I hope not
[21:33:36] <robinsz> I have:
[21:33:39] <zeeshan> how does your machine drop the tool
[21:33:42] <_svh> everytime i watch TV i feel like i just got a little dumber
[21:33:48] <_svh> ;)
[21:33:58] <robinsz> 1) an output from the spindle motor to indicate when the spindle is physically stopped
[21:34:10] <unfy> svh: agreed. havent turned it on in ages. tried watching news online that was a bust. whatever i see at the gym for national news during warm up cardio is always puke worthy. and entertainment tv ? pfffffft, rather do something constructive with my time :D
[21:34:28] <robinsz> 2) a push button on the side to drop the tool (it works a electro air valve for the pneumatic drawbar)
[21:34:50] <_svh> yea man, i'll admit i recently turned on the TV to watch local over the air stuff
[21:34:52] -!- [svh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[21:35:03] <_svh> and its stuff like MASH, and CHIPs lol.
[21:35:11] <_svh> Columbo
[21:35:13] <unfy> heheheheheheh
[21:35:25] <robinsz> HSD 10hp
[21:35:29] <_svh> its actually believable.
[21:35:32] <andypugh> zeeshan: Here is a spreadsheet to work out DIN disc springs:
http://www.bodgesoc.org/DIN2093DiscSprings.xls
[21:35:38] <unfy> better that than one of the reality shows of the last 25 years.
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[21:35:54] <zeeshan> andypugh: where is that from?
[21:36:01] <robinsz> id ideally like to keep it over the machine bed until it is stopped, then bring it to front of table, save the chances of putting hand under while running
[21:36:15] <[svh]> yeA man, the underlying agenda with new TV programming is thick.
[21:36:26] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/53NcsqE.png
[21:36:30] <zeeshan> check out the first run robinsz
[21:36:56] <zeeshan> output#0 activates only when some logic is good in linuxcnc
[21:37:02] <zeeshan> like spindle is stopped, axis isn't moving etc
[21:37:16] <zeeshan> and tool_change_sw activates the tool change cycle
[21:37:20] <XXCoder1> https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/10465536_10152766705968253_8481579067145299014_o.jpg https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/10991461_10152766707683253_353215546527205726_o.jpg
[21:37:24] <XXCoder1> fixed car
[21:37:31] <zeeshan> was wondering if your machine is similar
[21:37:44] <zeeshan> XXCoder1:
[21:37:48] <robinsz> zeeshan, yeah, but that would be dangerous on mine
[21:37:48] <zeeshan> what is that a th rottle boddy back side?
[21:37:55] <XXCoder1> it is
[21:37:56] <zeeshan> robinsz: why
[21:38:06] <XXCoder1> I already started cleaning before first pic
[21:38:08] <zeeshan> XXCoder1: why is it not filled with carbon
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[21:38:09] <zeeshan> :-)
[21:38:09] <XXCoder1> so it was really bad
[21:38:14] <zeeshan> looks great
[21:38:19] <zeeshan> does it idle better?
[21:38:21] <robinsz> zeeshan, how would EMC know if I had hold of the tool with my hand?
[21:38:42] <robinsz> zeeshan, i dont want the controller to drop the tool
[21:38:44] <zeeshan> robinsz: like when you press the button?
[21:38:47] <XXCoder1> https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10990016_10152766706843253_6238716415739675399_n.jpg?oh=e2e9d3c372896c2665e61757cb275332&oe=5582BC24
[21:38:53] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: check it out lol
[21:38:55] <zeeshan> well the relay is in series with it
[21:38:59] <zeeshan> it won't let you complete the circuit
[21:39:02] <zeeshan> to drop the tool
[21:39:07] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: not ran it yet, still need new air filter, its reall;y bad
[21:39:29] <zeeshan> do you have a new tb gasket?
[21:39:51] <andypugh> zeeshan: That’s my spreadsheet I used to decide on my drawbar spring stack.
[21:39:56] <robinsz> ah right, yes, thats a input after the switch, thought it was an output for auto
[21:40:26] <robinsz> yes, that will work for the switch part
[21:40:41] <robinsz> I dont see the input for spindle_is_stopped though
[21:40:54] <zeeshan> that'll be done through hal component
[21:40:55] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: nah but old ones in great shape
[21:41:06] <andypugh> moska: I think those wires are the limit and fault wiring.
[21:41:49] <zeeshan> relay k06 will not be energized till : motion.spindle-on = false, tool change request is active (i dont remember the pin)
[21:42:00] <robinsz> so, how would I get it to wait over the bed until spindle is stopped and then move to edge of bed?
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[21:43:01] <robinsz> zeeshan, yeah, I want to be certain it is stopped, from the sensor on the spindle
[21:43:09] <zeeshan> oh
[21:43:12] <andypugh> zeeshan: here is mu spindle-interlock.comp
http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/media/kunena/attachments/723/spindle_interlock.comp
[21:43:25] <robinsz> not just "well, I told the drive to stop, sorry about your fingers" :)
[21:43:27] <zeeshan> robinsz: i have a spindle encoder
[21:43:34] <zeeshan> so ill watch that
[21:43:38] <zeeshan> but that is a valid point
[21:43:40] <zeeshan> i didnt think of that
[21:43:43] <zeeshan> i still have to do this
[21:43:49] <zeeshan> waiting for my drawbar to fix first :{
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[21:44:03] <andypugh> use my .comp. It is for that job
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[21:44:15] <zeeshan> andypugh: what language is that
[21:44:24] <andypugh> .comp
[21:44:37] * zeeshan has been writing in python
[21:44:55] <skunkworks> it is C like...
[21:45:03] <andypugh> Yeah, but you can’t write realtime components in Python
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[21:45:25] <robinsz> andypugh, yeah, thats the sort of thing, except I have a pin I can use, so its a bit simpler
[21:45:29] <andypugh> Just save that file, halcompile -install spindle_interlock.comp, and use it in your HAL file
[21:45:53] <zeeshan> andypugh: that makes this code need realtime?
[21:46:01] <zeeshan> the encoder feedback ?
[21:46:15] <andypugh> It’s just a HAL component.
[21:46:27] <zeeshan> andypugh: can you look at my vfd code ?
[21:46:29] <andypugh> comp makes writing HAL components really easy
[21:46:31] <zeeshan> and see if i could benefit from realtime?
[21:46:46] <zeeshan> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/vfd.py
[21:46:53] <robinsz> I actually have spindle_stopped, tool_locked, tool_ejected sensors on my spindle
[21:47:05] <andypugh> That spindle one ended up realtime almost by accident, because that is what halcompile normally does
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[21:47:22] <zeeshan> i notice a lag
[21:47:26] <zeeshan> when i try to request speed changes
[21:47:28] <andypugh> robinsz: Then you can use LUT5 for your logic
[21:47:31] <zeeshan> its minimal, but noticeable
[21:47:35] <zeeshan> prolly 1 second.
[21:47:37] <robinsz> LUT5?
[21:47:43] <andypugh> Yes, LUT5 ;-)
[21:47:50] <robinsz> so many new things ...
[21:48:06] <zeeshan> andypugh: my vfd is using a modified library of minimal modbus
[21:48:16] <andypugh> robinsz:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/lut5.9.html
[21:48:23] <zeeshan> think its possible to transfform it to .comp with minimal work? :)
[21:48:30] <robinsz> can't I just bribe you with beer and stuff and a nice warm workshop for the weekend?
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[21:48:53] <andypugh> robinsz: Possibly
[21:49:01] <andypugh> Do you still have lasers?
[21:49:19] <robinsz> mmm ... metal cutting ones? no.
[21:49:43] <robinsz> cnc punch, pressbrake, non-functional router
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[21:50:05] <zeeshan> cnc punch!
[21:50:06] <zeeshan> nice
[21:50:08] <andypugh> Anyway, lut5 would let you decide whether release is allowed for each combinaiton of the inputs.
[21:50:14] <robinsz> right
[21:50:28] <robinsz> so, I get how HAL works
[21:50:31] <andypugh> You probably only really need LUT3, but we don’t have one.
[21:50:42] <robinsz> wire up components pin to pin, totally get that
[21:50:53] <Deejay> gn8
[21:50:54] <robinsz> but ...
[21:51:26] <robinsz> where do you do macro like stuff? wait for this pin, move machine to this (absolute) location
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[21:51:46] <robinsz> like a rack toolchanger for example
[21:52:20] <robinsz> how is that implemented?
[21:52:20] <zeeshan> robinsz: i don't know how to move the machine to absolute position
[21:52:27] <zeeshan> but the waiting for pins and stuff
[21:52:31] <zeeshan> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/lube.py
[21:52:37] <zeeshan> heres the centralized lubricator stuff.
[21:52:41] <andypugh> robinsz: Classic Ladder, or a g-code subroutine, or a HAL component written in .comp
[21:53:14] <robinsz> and the hal component can issue motion calls, wait for them to finish etc?
[21:53:50] <andypugh> robinsz: A rack toolchanger is probably easiest as a G-code sub and a remapped M6.
[21:54:23] <andypugh> If ypu look in the sample configs there is a sample rack toolchanger.
[21:54:27] <robinsz> ok
[21:54:30] <zeeshan> andypugh: did you have a .comp for your vfd?
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[21:54:40] <andypugh> sim/axis/remap/racktoolchange or something
[21:54:41] <PetefromTn_> that's what I'd like to know robinz
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[21:54:58] <andypugh> zeeshan: No, mine runs from an analogue output
[21:55:01] <robinsz> I was thinking of opening a cover and lifing the rack up to a working height
[21:55:06] <zeeshan> oh yea i forgot.
[21:55:09] <zeeshan> you were doing pid
[21:55:12] <zeeshan> needed the speeds
[21:55:30] <robinsz> with "stuff" to sense of door was open, rack was lifted
[21:55:40] <robinsz> I can use pneumatics for rack lift
[21:55:51] <andypugh> robinsz: All doable in G-code. send digital out, wait for pin to go true. M65 M66 and friends
[21:55:59] <robinsz> oh right
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[21:56:59] <robinsz> these would be in some sort of pre-loaded gcode routines loaded by the ini files?
[21:57:08] <zeeshan> andypugh: i am going through your code
[21:57:08] <cpresser> with digital/analog outs: is it possible to set a value at startup?
[21:57:11] <zeeshan> where is fperiod coming from
[21:57:31] <cpresser> afaik the analog-out pins default to 0 unless you set them via gcode
[21:57:45] <andypugh> zeeshan: fperiod is provided to comps by the underlying magic :-)
[21:58:05] <zeeshan> andypugh: is that period the value from servo period ?
[21:58:06] <zeeshan> thread
[21:58:10] <andypugh> Yes
[21:58:13] <zeeshan> nice
[21:58:30] <andypugh> Well, from the thread that the function is running in.
[21:58:41] <zeeshan> your code will mostly work for me
[21:58:47] <zeeshan> buti need to actuate the hydraulic vfd
[21:58:58] <zeeshan> vfd.hydvfd.run 1 when tool change request is called
[21:59:00] <zeeshan> for 30 seconds
[21:59:07] <andypugh> zeeshan: Read these docs
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html
[21:59:37] <andypugh> My spindle-interlock doesn’t control the spindle. It just controls the tool release button.
[22:00:43] <zeeshan> did you see the rung for my i/o?
[22:01:00] * zeeshan wants your opinion on it
[22:01:08] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/53NcsqE.png
[22:01:10] <zeeshan> first rung
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[22:01:59] <zeeshan> i was thinking when you press the tool change physical switch, itll change the state of input #11
[22:02:12] <zeeshan> which will let linuxcnc know there is a tooll change request
[22:02:36] <dirty_d> damnit shitty stepper driver burned out
[22:02:37] <andypugh> Hmm, I just have an input to HAL from the tool-change button and an outptu from HAL to the solenoid valve
[22:02:39] <zeeshan> which then should lead to a logic check that ensures that the spindle is not running, and axis in tool change mode
[22:03:05] <andypugh> And HAL only passes the button to the solenoid if it agrees that it is a good idea.
[22:03:12] <zeeshan> after that hyd pump should run for 30 seconds and acttivate the solenoid after pressure s/w is tripped
[22:03:55] <zeeshan> if the switch if lifted at any time, the solenoid should trip automatically , but the pump will continue to run (dont wanna burn it up)
[22:04:31] <zeeshan> andypugh: the reason i kept the tool change switch in series wit hthe solenoid valve
[22:04:39] <zeeshan> i wanted an added level of safety
[22:05:00] <zeeshan> if for some reason the computer went crazy, and mesa went crazy and instead of removing power from outputs
[22:05:04] <zeeshan> it energized them (unlikely)
[22:05:21] <zeeshan> the fact that i dont have the physical switch pressed would stop the tool from flying out
[22:05:34] <andypugh> Yeah. Worst case you drop a toolholder out of the spindle. My spindle is 1000 rpm and BT30. Not too scary
[22:05:43] <zeeshan> but youd leave a dent in your table! :{
[22:06:22] <zeeshan> i duunno, i was being paranoid
[22:06:28] <andypugh> Or the work. But the mill came to me with dings in the table.
[22:06:36] <zeeshan> this thought process was happening
[22:06:43] <zeeshan> when you guys were yelling at me to add safety
[22:06:49] <zeeshan> e-stop killing pwoer to mains :)
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[22:14:11] <zeeshan> 12.4(.488"), 33.9(1.335"), .1075
[22:14:52] <zeeshan> hm
[22:15:29] <zeeshan> standard belleville spring din2093: ID 0.484", OD=1.340"
[22:15:58] <zeeshan> .1075 is the free height ..
[22:19:11] <dirty_d> can anyone recommend drivers taht arent rediculously expensive for these motors
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-23/nema-23-three_eighths-inch-dual-shaft-with-a-flat-570-oz-in
[22:19:25] <zeeshan> dirty_d: what is expensive ?
[22:19:25] <dirty_d> i had keling 5056D that worked great, but they mysteriously disapeared
[22:19:36] <dirty_d> zeeshan, like $100 I guess
[22:20:14] <zeeshan> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver/digital-stepper-driver-kl-8070d-heat-sink-is-included
[22:20:18] <zeeshan> i use those for the 1200oz-in steppers
[22:20:22] <zeeshan> havent had probs
[22:21:04] <dirty_d> ok
[22:21:13] <dirty_d> is the motor rating of 5A the peak or RMS current?
[22:22:24] <zeeshan> rms
[22:22:54] <andypugh> How cheap do you want?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Single-Axis-TB6600-0-2-5A-CNC-Engraving-Machine-Driver-Controller-Stepper-Motor-/321454918858
[22:23:12] <dirty_d> i tried those
[22:23:14] <dirty_d> garbage
[22:23:26] <zeeshan> why garbage
[22:23:32] <andypugh> You didn’t specify that garbage wasn’t required.
[22:23:47] <dirty_d> poorly designed
[22:23:58] <dirty_d> and they overheat and burn out
[22:24:32] <dirty_d> i had them set to 3A where the max is 5A with a fan mounted on them, and they still burned out
[22:25:04] <zeeshan> lol
[22:25:05] <zeeshan> nice
[22:25:12] <zeeshan> i heard they were crap
[22:25:14] <zeeshan> but didnt know why
[22:25:15] <zeeshan> now i know :P
[22:25:51] <zeeshan> andypugh: where did you get data
[22:25:55] <zeeshan> for those din2093 springs
[22:26:02] <zeeshan> i only see load @ 75%
[22:26:15] <zeeshan> http://www.fullermetric.com/products/washer/din2093disc_spring_washer.aspx
[22:26:16] <zeeshan> on here
[22:26:22] <andypugh> I think I went through the Lee Spring catalogue
[22:26:48] <dirty_d> not only do they look like they were built buy a 12 year old chinese kid, but they also look like they were designed by one
[22:27:21] <Rab> Interesting thread on that chinese drive:
http://www.cnc-arena.com/en/forum/tb6600-drive-ebay--186930.html
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[22:28:08] <dirty_d> the diodes are actually what burned out, and it took everything else along with it
[22:28:22] <dirty_d> it probably would have been ok if I just cut them out first
[22:28:32] <zeeshan> http://www.leespring.com/product_spec.asp?partnum=5000451375&springType=W&subType=
[22:28:36] <zeeshan> only tells load at flat
[22:29:19] <furrywolf> just finished a yearly task that I never like... the half-killing of the grape vines. feels so wrong to cut off so much from a plant you want to live! heh
[22:29:34] <andypugh> It was several years ago. I don’t recall where I found the data.
[22:30:31] <zeeshan> well i know my target clamping load
[22:30:34] <zeeshan> should be 2700lb
[22:30:47] <furrywolf> if they follow hooke's law, the force should be linear-ish between nothing and flat...
[22:30:47] <zeeshan> im also limited by how many i can stack
[22:30:49] <zeeshan> and OD
[22:30:52] <zeeshan> and id.
[22:31:17] <andypugh> Yes, that was why I made up the spreadsheet.
[22:31:54] <andypugh> You can stack them in series and parallel combinations.
[22:31:55] <furrywolf> I've heard nothing good about those chinese drives, ever.
[22:32:56] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9iVkL3Kw-Q
[22:33:01] <furrywolf> I've also discovered my ants really, really like Terro ant baits. finally found one they eat!
[22:33:05] <zeeshan> i guess im limited by the fact that hyd system only makes 2000 psi pressure
[22:33:16] <zeeshan> 1.500" piston size
[22:34:03] <zeeshan> 3532 lb
[22:34:33] <zeeshan> so i guess the spring pack needs to be compressed to 2700lb in natural state
[22:35:06] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vCog4O8.jpg
[22:35:07] <Tom_itx> where you gettin 3532 lb?
[22:35:20] <zeeshan> f = p*a = 2000* pi/4 * 1.5^2
[22:35:33] <Tom_itx> so complicated...
[22:35:37] <zeeshan> :P
[22:35:49] <zeeshan> you assume hydraulic fluid is incompressible
[22:35:53] <furrywolf> that's not complicated. you learn that in, what, 7th grade? lol
[22:36:05] <zeeshan> it gets more complex when you start dealing with air
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[22:36:43] <furrywolf> even if it were air, for this task, you can assume it's at a steady state.
[22:36:43] <zeeshan> for some reason my brain isn't comprehending this diagram
[22:36:50] <zeeshan> if the spring pack is at 2700lb naturally.
[22:36:58] <zeeshan> for me to extend it 5.8 mm to release the tool
[22:37:26] <furrywolf> so your springs hold it in and you use hydraulic pressure to release it?
[22:37:28] <zeeshan> i have to ensure that 5.8 mm of displacement requires a max of 3532-2700lb of force
[22:37:42] <zeeshan> ofcourse i would need a buffer fopr that 3532
[22:37:45] <zeeshan> prolly remove 200lb from it
[22:38:13] <zeeshan> so a total of 632lb in 5.8mm (damn it im mixing metric and imperial!)
[22:38:17] <zeeshan> furrywolf: yes
[22:38:46] <zeeshan> i dont understand
[22:38:52] <zeeshan> why they use a ball and guide it on the blue cam thing.
[22:39:10] <zeeshan> its like theyre using it as a multiplier
[22:39:40] * zeeshan will need to make a free body diagram in open state and closed state
[22:40:42] <furrywolf> you should label that in english, in addition to colors. heh.
[22:40:55] <zeeshan> the bottom left is just saying
[22:41:09] <zeeshan> hub set in loose position
[22:41:31] <furrywolf> so... yellow is fluid? green is piston? black is seals? red... no clue.
[22:41:34] <zeeshan> so you basically want to compress the springs by 5.8 mm
[22:41:37] <zeeshan> to reach 2700lb.
[22:41:54] <zeeshan> furrywolf: colors were added to say color
[22:41:57] <zeeshan> instead of part #. :)
[22:42:02] <zeeshan> but yellow is fluid area yes
[22:42:29] <zeeshan> it'd be so much nicer just find a replacement cylinder
[22:42:38] <zeeshan> but this is kind of interesting for a learning experience
[22:42:49] <zeeshan> ive never machined a hydraulic cylinder before either
[22:43:09] <furrywolf> what are the various red parts?
[22:43:16] <zeeshan> those are 1 component
[22:43:18] <zeeshan> theyre 1 piece
[22:43:49] <zeeshan> http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8589/16607312242_ed2a374c30_h.jpg
[22:43:50] <zeeshan> that thing
[22:43:55] <furrywolf> just metal?
[22:43:58] <zeeshan> yea
[22:44:04] <zeeshan> thats the grey and red pieces
[22:44:08] <zeeshan> theyre all 1 component
[22:46:09] <zeeshan> i think i might be thinking this wrong..
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[22:46:24] <zeeshan> yea i definitely am
[22:46:29] <furrywolf> I don't know what the balls do, then. it doesn't seem to act in any way on the force, as the force doesn't go through the balls. they just seem like stops, but that's too complex to just be stops...
[22:46:51] <zeeshan> the top half of the diagram shows the closed position
[22:46:58] <zeeshan> in that position the spring stack isn't loaded
[22:47:00] <furrywolf> more like some kind of latch/detent mechanism...
[22:47:04] <zeeshan> but the tool is clamped.
[22:47:30] <zeeshan> and basically yuou want to displace the springs a max of 5.8mm
[22:47:45] <zeeshan> and ensure at 5.8mm 2700lb of force exists
[22:47:54] <zeeshan> actually that doesnt make sense either :P
[22:48:09] <zeeshan> if the springs arent preloaded by 2700lb
[22:48:29] <zeeshan> the tool won't be clamped securely
[22:48:57] <zeeshan> furrywolf: when i look at the clamped position (top half)
[22:49:02] <zeeshan> it looks like the ball is sitting in a ball seat
[22:49:03] -!- The_Ball has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[22:49:33] <furrywolf> it's some kind of detent that keeps the tool from releasing, but I haven't figured out why yet.
[22:49:40] <zeeshan> i think they might be doing that to not just rely on the 2700lb preload spring pressure
[22:49:48] <zeeshan> but also using the cam action
[22:49:53] <zeeshan> to provide additional locking.
[22:50:10] <furrywolf> the red part can't move forwards until after the pins have been pushed all the way though
[22:50:15] <zeeshan> the cam is forcing the ball in the radial direction of the cylinder
[22:50:30] <zeeshan> but if you provide hydraulic pressure
[22:50:32] <zeeshan> the cam releases
[22:50:37] <zeeshan> at the same time compressing the springs
[22:51:04] <zeeshan> that is pretty damn cool
[22:51:06] <furrywolf> so that you can't pull on the rod, period, with any amount of force. once the springs pull it to the locked position, it's mechanically locked fully pulled until hydraulic pressure releases it.
[22:51:55] <zeeshan> yes
[22:52:13] <zeeshan> i think it might be a dual lock.
[22:52:20] <zeeshan> 2700lb preload and cam lock.
[22:52:35] <zeeshan> but now since 9 pairs of my springs were blown
[22:52:36] <dirty_d> got the KL-8070Ds
[22:52:38] <dirty_d> ouch
[22:53:00] <zeeshan> there was gap and the cam was sitting more to the left
[22:53:03] <dirty_d> at least now I can use my 3kW power supply
[22:53:07] <zeeshan> releasing the balls from the ball groove
[22:53:08] <furrywolf> when you apply hydraulic pressure, the first half of the travel releases the lock, the second half pushes the rod out.
[22:53:37] <zeeshan> yea
[22:53:49] <zeeshan> so that distance between
[22:53:54] <zeeshan> the orange collar thingy
[22:54:02] <zeeshan> and the ball groove is critical
[22:54:06] <zeeshan> how in the hell am i going to measure that
[22:54:27] <furrywolf> are you sure yours isn't reusable?
[22:54:28] <zeeshan> dirty_d: they are good drives man
[22:54:31] <zeeshan> furrywolf: yes
[22:54:41] <zeeshan> i already cut it open
[22:54:44] <zeeshan> to see inside :-)
[22:54:45] <furrywolf> what way is yours damaged?
[22:54:54] <zeeshan> scored along the axial direction
[22:54:56] <zeeshan> in 3 spots
[22:54:58] <zeeshan> 30 thou deep
[22:55:04] <zeeshan> maybe 20
[22:55:06] <furrywolf> ... oh, it's damaged by the user. that's much harder to fix than damage from wear. :P
[22:55:21] <zeeshan> you know what happened?
[22:55:27] <zeeshan> someone mentioned this earlier
[22:55:30] <furrywolf> so it's now in a non-reassembleable state?
[22:55:31] <zeeshan> the shattered spring pack
[22:55:39] <zeeshan> got wedged inthere
[22:55:42] <zeeshan> and scored the shit out of things
[22:55:45] <zeeshan> when i tried to remove the orange thing
[22:56:02] <zeeshan> to make this all work again i need a new cylinder
[22:56:03] <zeeshan> and spring pack
[22:56:08] <zeeshan> the seals and everything else look good
[22:56:16] <zeeshan> the cam doesnt look worn
[22:56:22] <zeeshan> the balls are round :P
[22:56:33] <furrywolf> even if the seals look good, replace them. it's not worth having to take it apart again because you saved $5. :P
[22:56:34] * zeeshan waits for a dirty comment
[22:56:43] <zeeshan> yea ill change em
[22:56:46] <zeeshan> theyre 20 bux for 3 of em
[22:57:01] <zeeshan> i might rebuild the rotary union too
[22:57:03] <zeeshan> i was watching videos of it
[22:57:06] <zeeshan> its just 2 ball bearings
[22:57:15] <zeeshan> with 1 dynamic seal.
[22:57:19] <furrywolf> it doesn't look too hard to turn... was it chromed?
[22:57:35] <zeeshan> yea the portion that the orange, red, green thing ride on
[22:57:38] <zeeshan> was polished..
[22:57:45] <zeeshan> when i cut it up
[22:57:48] <zeeshan> i saw the chrome flakes
[22:58:01] <furrywolf> polished is recreatable, chromed is harder. :)
[22:59:39] <zeeshan> theres a few engine builders
[22:59:45] <zeeshan> that do chrome plating of bores
[22:59:54] <zeeshan> i need to ask them what the typical thickness is
[22:59:57] <furrywolf> I assume no replacement available?
[23:00:23] <zeeshan> im looking
[23:00:30] <zeeshan> im hoping to hear something on monday
[23:00:34] <zeeshan> i emailed 3 places
[23:00:36] <furrywolf> you could probably get away with polishing, with reduced lifespan. maybe use stainless instead of mild steel, unless you want to use something hardenable...
[23:00:51] <furrywolf> what part was scoring the bore?
[23:01:07] <zeeshan> where the hydraulic piston rides
[23:01:08] <zeeshan> :(
[23:01:11] <zeeshan> and the red thing
[23:01:14] <furrywolf> the finish probably only really matters in the back section where the seals ride.
[23:01:46] <zeeshan> i could heat treat it in the school furnace
[23:01:56] <furrywolf> what about re-engineering it to use a commercial off-the-shelf ram pushing a disc into the back of your current unit?
[23:01:58] <zeeshan> but ill need to make a grinder attachement for my lathe
[23:02:20] <zeeshan> furrywolf: thats not a bad idea
[23:02:22] <furrywolf> that is, move the green, yellow, and pink external.
[23:02:24] <zeeshan> i do like that cam lock thing.
[23:02:30] <zeeshan> oh
[23:03:26] <furrywolf> you can get hydraulic rams with threaded noses... turn an adapter to screw one of them into the back of your current unit where the pink part is, and replace the green piston with a simple disc screwed to the rod of the new ram.
[23:03:28] <zeeshan> thats a pretty good idea.
[23:03:35] <zeeshan> i would just have to extend the dowels
[23:03:37] <zeeshan> slightly
[23:03:54] <zeeshan> the thing is
[23:03:58] <zeeshan> i need the rotary union
[23:04:00] <furrywolf> I don't think you would.
[23:04:01] <zeeshan> (pink)
[23:04:03] <furrywolf> rotary union?
[23:04:05] <zeeshan> this cylinder rotates with the machine
[23:04:08] -!- [cube] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[23:04:12] <zeeshan> the hydraulic fluid line
[23:04:15] <furrywolf> oh, I assumed that was just a plug with a fitting...
[23:04:15] <zeeshan> stays stationary
[23:04:31] <zeeshan> but your idea is really good
[23:04:40] <zeeshan> because i could seperate the hydraulics
[23:04:43] <zeeshan> from the cam actuation
[23:04:46] <furrywolf> yes
[23:04:47] <zeeshan> and it'd be a much shorter piece
[23:04:56] <zeeshan> which would be likely cheaper to replace
[23:04:57] <zeeshan> OR
[23:05:03] <zeeshan> i could maybe even buy a standard 1.5" bore cylinder.
[23:05:03] <furrywolf> and you don't need to try building a chromed hydraulic cylinder yourself. :)
[23:05:05] <zeeshan> cause thats what this is.
[23:05:14] <zeeshan> ill mic it accurately today
[23:05:23] <furrywolf> and just stick a sleeve in front where the washers are?
[23:05:41] <zeeshan> where?
[23:06:06] <furrywolf> use a hydraulic cylinder the size of the back area, then use a sleeve for the narrower front areas
[23:06:18] <furrywolf> and stuff your insides into the new cylinder
[23:06:51] <furrywolf> the washers don't care what the bore finish is.
[23:06:54] <zeeshan> yea
[23:07:00] <zeeshan> that area is rough finished
[23:07:21] <zeeshan> i still need to figure out how to measure the ball seat location along the length
[23:07:24] <zeeshan> relative to the orange thing
[23:07:59] <furrywolf> diagram makes it look like immediately behind...
[23:08:19] <zeeshan> the orange thing is tapered
[23:08:21] <zeeshan> not flat :/
[23:08:25] <zeeshan> so it makes it a bit more challenging
[23:09:19] <zeeshan> this would be REALLY cool to recreate
[23:09:30] <zeeshan> i'd even make the left side unscrreable.
[23:09:32] <furrywolf> looks like it clamps with a lot of force... what's the ratio of the slopes of the blue and the red? heh
[23:09:35] <zeeshan> unscrewable
[23:09:43] <zeeshan> so you dont have to moronically take apart all the right side shit
[23:09:46] <zeeshan> to replace spring backs
[23:09:48] <zeeshan> *packs
[23:09:59] -!- [cube] [[cube]!~cube@70.50.49.3] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:10:20] <zeeshan> furrywolf: no idea
[23:10:29] <zeeshan> i was thinking of using the shadowgraph at school
[23:10:32] <zeeshan> to reverse engineer it
[23:10:41] <furrywolf> brb
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[23:14:36] <jdh> shadowgraph?
[23:15:01] <zeeshan> optical comparator
[23:15:32] <miss0r|shop> dear loard! I can't wait for my arboga cnc mod to be completed - at the moment I am milling the parts for the convertion on a roland camm-3 pnc-3100. The two aluminum brackets for the X and Y ballnuts, haven taken 6 hours to mill! I NEED A BIGGER SPINDLE !
[23:15:46] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Hw do you reverse engineer ghetto fabulous?
[23:15:52] <Jymmm> How*
[23:15:54] <zeeshan> wat
[23:16:06] <Jymmm> zeeshan: 737
[23:17:54] <Jymmm> zeeshan: As in Boeng 737, 30,000 feet and climbing... aka OVER YOUR HEAD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTwnwbG9YLE
[23:18:42] <zeeshan> with a big ASS shadowgraph
[23:18:42] <zeeshan> :D
[23:18:50] <Jymmm> lol
[23:22:54] <_methods> i wish someone would make a tv show where people just randomly get tasered for no reason
[23:23:30] <unfy> that won't be a tv show ever
[23:23:36] <_methods> cops is pretty close
[23:23:37] <unfy> the insurance policy would be way too high
[23:24:48] <_methods> probably lol
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[23:36:53] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAg1r6zw7Bg sounds like Ow My Balls!
[23:37:36] <XXCoder1> lol yeah
[23:38:28] <_methods> hahahha
[23:38:36] <_methods> love that movie
[23:39:45] <_methods> i saw some hackerspace made a brawndo water fountain
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[23:40:23] <_methods> http://www.hammerspacehobby.com/2012/05/brawndo-its-what-geeks-crave.html
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[23:52:35] * furrywolf wants to start a hackerspace
[23:53:00] <_methods> don't do it
[23:53:31] <furrywolf> oh?
[23:53:53] <_methods> its a pain
[23:55:10] <furrywolf> you need to cultivate minions, then
[23:55:53] <_methods> there is a reason nerds don't have friends
[23:56:01] <furrywolf> ?
[23:56:48] <_methods> when you gather a bunch of people with no social skills it just makes for some silly fights
[23:57:06] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[23:58:05] <furrywolf> that's why you make sure you rule with an iron fist. see above about having minions. :P
[23:58:13] <_methods> lol
