#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-02-08

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[00:00:09] <zeeshan|2> """"""""""""""""""
[00:00:16] <zeeshan|2> < trying to destroy andypugh's irc
[00:00:16] <andypugh> Not really, you can just work slowly
[00:00:33] <andypugh> That guys deckel horizontal spindle is not fast
[00:01:00] <zeeshan|2> im suprised hes not snapping that
[00:01:06] <zeeshan|2> that thing is a toothpic
[00:01:10] <andypugh> so was he :-)
[00:01:23] <andypugh> No, it’s a lot thinner than a toothpick
[00:02:04] -!- mozmck [mozmck!~moses@67.210.159.245] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:02:15] <andypugh> The shank can’t possibly be more than 1.2mm or it wouldn’t work
[00:03:46] -!- codepython7771 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[00:05:26] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu2GFst6Ehs
[00:05:27] <zeeshan|2> wow.
[00:05:29] <zeeshan|2> this is crazy
[00:05:43] <zeeshan|2> thats a great way to stop deflection
[00:05:45] -!- Nick001-shop has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[00:05:53] <zeeshan|2> god i really want a twin spindle lathe
[00:05:55] <zeeshan|2> theyre so awesome
[00:06:36] <Tom_itx> it's the font he uses
[00:06:40] <Tom_itx> mine does it too
[00:07:22] -!- codepython7771 [codepython7771!~codepytho@c-68-35-250-254.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:07:26] <renesis> electromagnetic 'drawbar' for neodymium loaded tool holders
[00:07:30] <renesis> WILL IT BLEND!?
[00:07:31] <Tom_itx> ok tonight i'm gonna test the 'inhibit' code
[00:07:53] <renesis> for micromills
[00:08:23] <andypugh> I think it is because I am on a Mac and it uses different quotes for beginning and end
[00:08:32] -!- asdfasd has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[00:08:49] <renesis> i hate that
[00:08:52] -!- SB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[00:09:19] <andypugh> Hey, if your software is too brain-dead to cope woth correct grammmar….
[00:09:20] <renesis> ms word will do that if you useit as a paste pad
[00:09:45] <renesis> the angle of the slant of the quotes is a bit overkill i think
[00:11:02] <andypugh> Is this "better" ?
[00:11:55] <renesis> ""
[00:11:58] <renesis> use those
[00:12:11] <renesis> i those are those but im not sure
[00:12:18] <renesis> ^think
[00:12:29] <andypugh> I don't tyoe anything special
[00:12:30] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i see quotes
[00:12:31] <zeeshan|2> from you!
[00:12:33] <zeeshan|2> WOW
[00:12:47] <andypugh> Yeah, I found a setting to change
[00:13:04] <tjtr33> linux ubuntu 10.04 xchat doesnt have any probs with the up/down dbl quotes
[00:13:07] <andypugh> I don't like it though :-)
[00:13:18] <andypugh> Look ugly
[00:13:41] <zeeshan|2> """
[00:13:51] <zeeshan|2> do you know what font set it is ?|
[00:14:13] <zeeshan|2> im using "langauge encoding"
[00:14:19] <zeeshan|2> force langauge: "en"
[00:16:21] -!- FrozenCow_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[00:16:53] <Crom_> weeee just remounted a headlight of one of our actresses
[00:18:07] * furrywolf must have a different definition of headlight
[00:19:02] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: _my_ font choices have no effect on what _you_ see
[00:19:24] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i only have one reply to that: """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
[00:19:28] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[00:19:49] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: I have no problem seeing your string of quotes, it causes me no problems at all
[00:20:01] <XXCoder> """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
[00:20:05] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:20:42] <furrywolf> ,,¿sǝʇonb uʍop ǝpᴉsdn ʇnoqɐ ʇɐɥʍ,,
[00:20:54] <andypugh> No probem at all
[00:21:10] -!- PetefromTn_ [PetefromTn_!~IceChat9@75-136-60-251.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:21:24] <XXCoder> furrywolf: only one unknown charactor
[00:21:38] <XXCoder> I love font im using
[00:21:43] <furrywolf> lol
[00:21:50] <andypugh> I rather suspect that any possible character encoding will be rendered correctly by my software.
[00:21:55] <XXCoder> IIIlllllIIIIlllIIlll
[00:22:02] <tjtr33> &lsquo, &rsquo dunno how to embed html in irc chat
[00:22:27] <furrywolf> for some reason it rendered perfectly when I pasted it, but didn't render at all in the channel area, so I have no idea if it got sent right or not.
[00:22:32] <tjtr33> errrr &ldquo, &rdquo
[00:23:34] <andypugh> furrywolf: I guess it was actually made of normal text and the extras they tend to use for phonetics, like the upside-down e ?
[00:23:40] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9jMN9Bgg6g
[00:23:41] <zeeshan|2> wow
[00:23:53] <furrywolf> andy: probably
[00:24:17] <furrywolf> did it render correctly for you?
[00:24:44] <andypugh> furrywolf: Yes
[00:24:58] micges_ is now known as micges
[00:25:03] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: A better example of polygon turning
[00:25:04] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/KMdBIBzGtKI
[00:25:09] <furrywolf> I think it's my irc client. I need to figure out how to install bitchx.
[00:25:14] <zeeshan|2> whats its advantage?
[00:25:20] <XXCoder> hexchat here
[00:25:24] <zeeshan|2> if you had a live spindle
[00:25:26] <zeeshan|2> you could do the same?
[00:25:37] <XXCoder> only flaw for it is that if I reconnect often enough it will crash (windows bug)
[00:25:49] * furrywolf doesn't use windows
[00:25:59] <XXCoder> then you has no problem
[00:26:06] <zeeshan|2> notice how the tool stays stationary in the Z direction
[00:26:08] <zeeshan|2> and the part gets fed
[00:26:08] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:26:12] <zeeshan|2> means less dfelction
[00:26:23] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: That's what "Swiss" lathes do
[00:26:46] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Polygonal turning with LinuxCNC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4q8gCpeY1A
[00:27:09] <furrywolf> I've heard bitchx no longer compiles on modern linux, but I haven't tried...
[00:27:20] <furrywolf> I know debian removed it for failing to compile.
[00:27:31] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i see the polygon turning part
[00:27:36] <zeeshan|2> but youre not feeding the part through the psindle!
[00:27:37] <zeeshan|2> :P
[00:27:44] <XXCoder> furrywolf: hexchat is avilable on linux
[00:27:51] <zeeshan|2> but your video shows how it works much better
[00:27:55] <PetefromTn_> damn thats cool huh
[00:27:57] <XXCoder> most distubations but theres download for pre-14.04 ubuntu
[00:27:57] <zeeshan|2> thats just a single point?
[00:28:13] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Yes
[00:28:23] <andypugh> The other way is much faster, of course
[00:28:45] <zeeshan|2> lol thats so bad ass
[00:28:47] <zeeshan|2> the allen key test
[00:28:50] <furrywolf> xxcoder: you do realize hexchat is absolutely nothing like bitchx, right? :P
[00:29:08] <XXCoder> yeah. never used bitchx though
[00:29:28] <XXCoder> whats it like
[00:29:50] <furrywolf> it's like epic but not sucking.
[00:30:01] <XXCoder> not familiar with epic either lol
[00:30:07] <tjtr33> thats a great video andy, like some joke that ends with 'Sez Me!'
[00:30:36] <andypugh> This is a close-up of a hexagonal hole I bored with that setup: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted?noredirect=1#5832691539222904034
[00:30:39] <furrywolf> yeah, methinks you haven't been on irc very long. :P
[00:30:48] <XXCoder> long time actuallu
[00:30:54] <XXCoder> just not much vareity of clients
[00:31:01] <furrywolf> '80s? '90s?
[00:31:05] <XXCoder> 90s
[00:31:18] <XXCoder> then long gap till 2009 or so
[00:31:44] <furrywolf> and you never used epic or an epic-derived client? what, were you using windows the whole time?
[00:31:53] <XXCoder> well yes lol
[00:32:02] <XXCoder> home pc has always been windows
[00:32:09] <PetefromTn_> andypugh You had logged off yesterday but I would like to salute you for your amazing skills and craftsmanship rebuilding that bike. Amazing stuff and you really have a way of making linuxCNC stand up and dance....Well done my friend
[00:32:12] <XXCoder> while I use linux for college and various oither stuff
[00:33:07] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9jMN9Bgg6g
[00:33:10] <zeeshan|2> i really want to know hwo the hell
[00:33:13] <zeeshan|2> they're moving the work piece
[00:33:26] <furrywolf> short version: there's a class of console irc clients, including epic, bitchx, and so forth, all somewhat similar in use.
[00:33:44] <jdh> I used epic for 15? years
[00:33:55] <XXCoder> oh console version. never used those. nice :)
[00:34:16] <furrywolf> jdh: epic STILL doesn't have tab nick completition. it is pissing me off muchly.
[00:34:16] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[00:34:19] <zeeshan|2> lol @ bitchx
[00:34:26] <zeeshan|2> that thing is ancient
[00:34:35] <jdh> I have tab mapped to next window anyway
[00:34:40] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: nice video
[00:34:43] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: The real magic is HAL, and John Kasunich added that (against some resistance, I believe). It means that between the control and the hardware it is all just numbers and you can do anything that you fancy doing there.
[00:35:14] <XXCoder> just checked out bitchx site
[00:35:15] <furrywolf> sure 'nuff, doesn't compile....
[00:35:16] <XXCoder> old style
[00:35:28] <XXCoder> even has html 4.01 ansi standard logo
[00:35:32] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: It's a Swiss Lathe.
[00:36:11] <XXCoder> new site https://github.com/BitchX
[00:36:13] <zeeshan|2> how does it do the clamping mechanism?
[00:36:16] <andypugh> There is a spindle behind that collet that holds the bar and that slides backwards and forwards. What you see is a second collet which just supports the bar.
[00:37:00] <andypugh> http://www.cnc-training.com/tandp/jul03.htm
[00:37:25] <XXCoder> latest bitchx nov 16 2013. pretty old but not ancient
[00:37:38] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: its old :P
[00:37:41] <zeeshan|2> look at when it first came out
[00:38:09] <jdh> bitchx is pretty new, comparatively
[00:38:19] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: You can actually do the same thing with a normal lathe if you have a frame and a support collet on the saddle.
[00:38:36] <zeeshan|2> you need a bar feeder too i guess?
[00:38:48] <furrywolf> wow there's a fuckton of compiler warnings
[00:38:53] <andypugh> You can sort-of see the support collet as a particularly effective travelling steady
[00:39:17] <XXCoder> the 2013 version furry?
[00:39:21] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Yes and you need super-accurately sized bar stock
[00:39:31] <zeeshan|2> ah
[00:39:46] <XXCoder> andypugh: can always accurately size bar before using it
[00:40:12] <andypugh> Yes, you just buy centreless-ground bar
[00:41:06] <tjtr33> is the guide slip fit or does it ever grab?
[00:41:29] <furrywolf> looks like it doesn't play with current versions of ncurses
[00:41:48] <XXCoder> ncurses = shell display library right?
[00:42:20] <andypugh> tjtr33: I have exhausted my knowledge on this subject :-)
[00:42:40] <furrywolf> yes
[00:42:53] -!- amiri has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[00:43:19] <furrywolf> so far three minor tweaks, waiting to see what doesn't compile next...
[00:43:47] <XXCoder> heh I last used ncurses at college project. I would ay round 2008 or so
[00:43:57] <XXCoder> ants on subject of designing game logic
[00:45:23] <furrywolf> looks like my tweaks were non-beneficial, as it compiled, but segfaults the instant you run it.
[00:45:27] <Crom_> can linuxcnc handle an armed robotic arm with a spindle at the end?
[00:46:05] <furrywolf> no, for armed robots, you need a badass action hero.
[00:46:27] <andypugh> Crom_: I don't see why not
[00:46:39] <tjtr33> thx andypugh looks like the guide does grab http://goo.gl/IENXDN
[00:47:34] -!- Camaban has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[00:47:43] <andypugh> tjtr33: Not sure what that link is showing me?
[00:47:53] <tjtr33> pix of swiss actions
[00:48:03] <andypugh> And non-swiss too
[00:48:18] <tjtr33> yah, google is always a junk box of pix
[00:48:30] <Crom_> it would be cool to have a desktop armed cnc mill
[00:49:42] <furrywolf> -Wall makes it sooooo ugly...
[00:49:46] <andypugh> Crom_: How about this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nebJ59TcYlQ
[00:50:28] <PetefromTn_> I love that video.. really good looking machine idea
[00:51:02] -!- fluffybitchx [fluffybitchx!~randyg@107.25.167.113] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:51:12] <fluffybitchx> XXCoder: yay! nick completion!
[00:51:13] <XXCoder> hmm stupid idea: run old linux in vm and run curses in it
[00:51:27] <XXCoder> you made it work?
[00:51:36] <andypugh> This is the monster hexapod at NIST that LinuxCNC was first written to control (as I understand it) https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5224/5884929289_3fdd57e6db.jpg
[00:51:37] <fluffybitchx> I got the git version rather than the tarball
[00:51:37] <Crom_> thinking more on the order of central pivot with a robotic arm
[00:51:41] <XXCoder> nice
[00:52:09] <XXCoder> andypugh: and next: 4d cnc ;)
[00:52:16] <fluffybitchx> I'd love to build a mini tabletop robotic arm...
[00:52:16] <XXCoder> x,y,z,w
[00:52:19] <PetefromTn_> jeez that is a monster
[00:53:15] <fluffybitchx> I was at a shop a while ago that had an electric gantry crane, that could move on rails in all directions... I was thinking it'd sure make one big cnc machine... about 40ft by 150ft by 12ft... lool
[00:53:24] <fluffybitchx> lol
[00:53:26] <andypugh> I wonder who the guy is? Possibly Fred Procter.
[00:53:43] <XXCoder> furry I bet!
[00:53:51] <XXCoder> just need way to control it via computer
[00:54:04] <XXCoder> then you can make 1:1 scale of thinking man or lincorn statue
[00:54:07] <Crom_> fluffybitchx, that I'd make into a 3d printer using concrete
[00:54:41] <fluffybitchx> you'd need to rig up linear feedback of some form. my first thought would be wire rope around a grooved drum (constant diameter) and rotary encoder.
[00:55:10] <tjtr33> look up the original emc robo-crane
[00:55:17] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: Lasers
[00:55:26] <Crom_> fluffybitchx, rig laser range finders
[00:55:46] <andypugh> Or, for fun, a clicker at the work point and microhones at each corner of the room.
[00:56:09] -!- witnit_ [witnit_!~john@208-38-253-24.hntninaa.metronetinc.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:56:20] <Crom_> andypugh, spark gap noise maker
[00:56:56] <fluffybitchx> brb
[00:56:57] -!- fluffybitchx has quit [Quit: BitchX: more nutritious than a six-pack.]
[00:57:03] <Crom_> I remember a digitizer using 2 mics and a pen with a sparker in it
[00:57:14] <andypugh> (You can buy that system, for locating points in a big space, like acellermeters on a car body in a modal testing facility. It would certainly beat walking round a Transit van with a 1m Faro arm like I once had to do.)
[00:57:31] -!- fluffybitchx [fluffybitchx!~randyg@107.25.167.113] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:57:39] <fluffybitchx> can't seem to make xterm's fonts work properly. oh well.
[00:58:27] <zeeshan|2> http://www.rack-a-tiers.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/robertson-screws.jpg
[00:58:34] <zeeshan|2> curiousity
[00:58:37] <codepython7771> does anyone use a usb servo controller here?
[00:58:40] <zeeshan|2> are therse common in usa and uk?
[00:58:57] <XXCoder> fluffybitchx: I do recommand Inconsolata but no idea if it'd work in shell
[00:58:59] <fluffybitchx> they're common in canuckland.
[00:59:02] <andypugh> I have seen them in the UK, but they are uncommon,
[00:59:11] <zeeshan|2> wow
[00:59:16] <zeeshan|2> what do you guys use?
[00:59:19] <zeeshan|2> they are ALL over here
[00:59:27] <zeeshan|2> almost impossible to strip
[00:59:37] <andypugh> Mainly Posidrive in the UK now
[00:59:45] <XXCoder> usb servo? interesting
[00:59:51] <zeeshan|2> hm
[00:59:53] <zeeshan|2> looks like a philips
[01:00:06] <zeeshan|2> with extra stars
[01:00:12] <andypugh> A bit more parallel on the drive faces than Phillips
[01:00:13] <Crom_> still mainly P2 phillips, though torx star quite a bit
[01:00:31] <zeeshan|2> almost all our electrical panels
[01:00:34] <zeeshan|2> to wood working stuff uses those
[01:00:52] <fluffybitchx> robertson is sold as generic "square" in the us.
[01:01:13] <fluffybitchx> they used to be common for deck and drywall screws, but torx ("star") has pretty much completely displaced them.
[01:01:50] <Crom_> RObertson wear out too quick... torx much better
[01:02:04] <fluffybitchx> yep. torx bits can take a LOT of use before they wear.
[01:02:25] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#Screw_head_shapes
[01:02:36] <zeeshan|2> bullshit
[01:02:39] <zeeshan|2> i strip torx all the time
[01:02:41] <Crom_> fun part is finding bit durable enough without being to brittle
[01:03:06] <PetefromTn_> square drive screws are very common in woodworking circles here
[01:03:33] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ls2.com/boggs/t56rebuild/Tranny20Rebuild20T3020Alignment20bolts.jpg
[01:03:36] <zeeshan|2> i stripped that shit
[01:03:56] <zeeshan|2> to go slot it
[01:04:01] <zeeshan|2> and use an impact flat
[01:04:15] <zeeshan|2> to go = had to
[01:04:30] <Crom_> zeeshan|2, hehe I've had to do that more than I'd like to admit
[01:04:34] <fluffybitchx> http://wedo.hillmangroup.com/viewitems/deck-screws/flat-head-star-drive-powerpro-screws I think you get about 20 pounds of those per torx bit... I use them for all my wood construction.
[01:05:04] -!- swingley has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[01:05:40] <fluffybitchx> even a worn torx bit will snap the screw before slipping
[01:06:16] <zeeshan|2> honestly for car stuff
[01:06:20] <zeeshan|2> i just order them before hand now
[01:06:24] <fluffybitchx> and I ram them in with an impact driver, which is harder on the bits.
[01:06:25] <zeeshan|2> because i know im gonna destroy one or two
[01:06:43] <fluffybitchx> I've never stripped an automotive-size non-rusty torx screw.
[01:06:52] <witnit_> fluffybitchx sound like alter ego to furrywolf
[01:06:58] <zeeshan|2> hahahahah
[01:07:04] <fluffybitchx> witnit: I finally got bitchx installed!
[01:07:08] <XXCoder> after a bad day maybve
[01:07:08] <witnit_> nice :)
[01:07:09] <fluffybitchx> I have nick completition finally.
[01:07:40] <zeeshan|2> im gonan do my servo test shit now
[01:07:55] * Tom_itx puts up the blast shield
[01:08:02] <XXCoder> did my link help furry
[01:08:07] <fluffybitchx> I have no idea how epic has been around and STILL doesn't have nick completition.
[01:08:10] <fluffybitchx> which link?
[01:08:19] <XXCoder> last one, it was to bitchx repo
[01:09:02] -!- TTN has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[01:09:15] <fluffybitchx> the github one? yeah, that's what I ended up using. the tarball was too far from working.
[01:09:35] <XXCoder> glad to be bit of help
[01:10:00] <XXCoder> out for now laters
[01:11:54] <anarchos2> anyone know where i can get one of those solid sliding way guards for my z axis?
[01:12:20] -!- gonzo_nb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[01:14:58] <Crom_> besides making one?
[01:18:20] <anarchos2> yea
[01:19:58] <fluffybitchx> hrmm
[01:21:08] <Crom_> hmmm table guard has some returns
[01:21:19] <Crom_> hmmm tableinterlocking guard has some returns
[01:21:51] <fluffybitchx> wow. the first result in a google search for something on bitchx was gopher. that brings back memories...
[01:22:02] <tjtr33> sliding way cover works well for a search
[01:22:05] <witnit_> zeeshan|2 you should set up camera and live feed for us
[01:22:34] <witnit_> telescoping way cover may do
[01:23:00] * fluffybitchx wonders how many people here remember gopher
[01:23:14] <tjtr33> and kermit
[01:23:31] <fluffybitchx> what, no xmodem? :P
[01:23:36] <witnit_> fluffybitchx do you know rhapsody
[01:24:17] <Crom_> interlocked table guard southwestern industries
[01:24:36] <witnit_> the irc client
[01:24:50] <fluffybitchx> no
[01:25:29] <witnit_> i use a floppy distro still from time to time and i assumed it was just some old small irc
[01:26:22] <tjtr33> gorplate buww hennig all on 1st search
[01:27:24] <zeeshan|2> haha witnit
[01:27:45] <witnit_> do eeeet
[01:27:46] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: are you just entering random made up words?
[01:28:30] <PetefromTn_> he's speaking TJ--ese
[01:29:21] <tjtr33> those are correct spellingsof sliding way cover mfctrs
[01:29:53] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_%28search_engine%29
[01:30:09] <CaptHindsight> oh and Archie
[01:30:29] <CaptHindsight> 25 years
[01:30:54] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[01:31:15] * LeelooMinai adds Mosaic
[01:31:27] <CaptHindsight> http://archie.icm.edu.pl/archie-adv_eng.html Last surviving Archie web interface
[01:32:13] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/kjPLsno.png
[01:32:17] <zeeshan|2> guess what im measuring at the volt meter
[01:32:27] <CaptHindsight> have to log off soon, this service is ~25 cents per minute
[01:32:45] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: wake up!
[01:32:46] <zeeshan|2> :P
[01:33:01] <PetefromTn_> Ouch
[01:33:05] <fluffybitchx> something other than 0?
[01:33:08] <zeeshan|2> yep
[01:33:13] <zeeshan|2> 1.7V
[01:33:15] <fluffybitchx> and you need to draw a schematic for that?!
[01:33:22] <zeeshan|2> yes
[01:33:25] <zeeshan|2> easier to show then type
[01:33:29] <fluffybitchx> lol
[01:33:30] <zeeshan|2> *than
[01:33:36] <fluffybitchx> maybe for you. :P
[01:33:41] <LeelooMinai> That looks like TINA simulator
[01:33:43] <zeeshan|2> when i measure from 12v to motor chassis
[01:33:47] <fluffybitchx> ok, so now you know your motor has a short to ground. which is probably why it blows drives. :P
[01:33:52] <zeeshan|2> i get 0.06 A
[01:34:17] <zeeshan|2> when measure between brake and chassi
[01:34:19] <zeeshan|2> i get 0.03 mA
[01:34:22] <zeeshan|2> er
[01:34:23] <zeeshan|2> 0.03A
[01:34:43] <fluffybitchx> eh? the brake is shorted to ground too?
[01:34:46] * LeelooMinai wonders if zeeshan|2 ran out of drives and decided to step it up to simulators
[01:34:51] <fluffybitchx> lol
[01:35:08] <zeeshan|2> well i dont know if its a bs reading
[01:35:11] <zeeshan|2> or a real reading :P
[01:35:14] <CaptHindsight> bad motors, that sux
[01:35:14] <zeeshan|2> its pretty repeatable
[01:35:26] <fluffybitchx> and it would definitely explain blown drives.
[01:35:45] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if me keeping the brake on all the time
[01:35:49] <zeeshan|2> keeping it energized
[01:35:50] <zeeshan|2> caused it
[01:36:04] <fluffybitchx> what's the resistance reading between the motor windings and the case? brake winding and case?
[01:36:15] <zeeshan|2> lemme check
[01:36:24] <tjtr33> remove motor and read same? ( GND to motor_chassis)
[01:36:36] <tjtr33> haha forget it
[01:39:03] <zeeshan|2> infinite
[01:39:08] <Crom_> anarchos2, looking at possible searches: way cover, chip cover, table guard
[01:39:08] <fluffybitchx> hrmm
[01:39:19] <fluffybitchx> that disagrees with your previous readings.
[01:39:29] <zeeshan|2> well im calling 8 Mohm
[01:39:30] <zeeshan|2> infinite
[01:41:14] <fluffybitchx> connect both leads of the motor to +12v, then measure between the motor case and ground. repeat with both brake leads.
[01:41:24] <fluffybitchx> rotate slowly while measuring
[01:41:33] <fluffybitchx> (for the motor leads, shouldn't matter for brake leads)
[01:43:03] <zeeshan|2> 7.3 ohm bulb
[01:43:25] <fluffybitchx> bulb not needed. it's not going to do anything with both leads connected together...
[01:43:31] <zeeshan|2> trying to do some math here
[01:43:36] <zeeshan|2> 1.64A draw in circuit
[01:44:03] <zeeshan|2> R = V / I = 1.7/1.64
[01:44:13] <zeeshan|2> 1 ohm
[01:44:14] <zeeshan|2> wtf ?
[01:44:20] <zeeshan|2> why am i not measuring that
[01:44:37] <fluffybitchx> I have no idea what you're measuring or what those numbers are.
[01:44:49] <zeeshan|2> the bulb is inseries w/ the power supply
[01:44:53] <zeeshan|2> its drawing 1.64A
[01:45:07] <fluffybitchx> you're not doing the test I just asked about, then. :)
[01:45:14] <zeeshan|2> i will
[01:45:19] <zeeshan|2> but if its a real short
[01:45:23] <zeeshan|2> itll burn some shit
[01:45:28] <zeeshan|2> if i connect it directly
[01:45:36] <fluffybitchx> no, it won't. I said connect _both leads_ to +12v.
[01:45:44] <fluffybitchx> the only thing connected to - will be your multimeter.
[01:45:48] <zeeshan|2> o
[01:46:08] <zeeshan|2> youre trying to put a potential diff
[01:46:08] <zeeshan|2> ok
[01:47:02] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/
[01:47:19] <fluffybitchx> if you measure 0v, try rotating the motor slowly.
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[01:48:14] <Crom_> anarchos2, http://www.buww.com/new_way_cover.html
[01:48:18] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: The really wierd thing is that that link, on my Mac, opens the windows XP VM !
[01:48:19] <Crom_> not cheap!
[01:48:44] <fluffybitchx> I don't have a gopher client installed...
[01:49:12] <andypugh> Some web borwsers "Just WorK"
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[01:50:05] <CaptHindsight> http://gopher.quux.org:70/ works fine with FF, but it can't handle the /1
[01:50:41] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx:
[01:50:45] <zeeshan|2> there is signficant damage to this motor
[01:50:48] <zeeshan|2> im convinced now
[01:51:01] <zeeshan|2> i kinda reversed what you ewr saying
[01:51:07] <zeeshan|2> i clamped +12v to the motor chassis directly
[01:51:22] <zeeshan|2> and measured the voltage coming out of tachometer, brake, and motor leads
[01:51:26] <zeeshan|2> tachometer = 0
[01:51:32] <zeeshan|2> brake = 5.1 v
[01:51:37] <zeeshan|2> motor leads = 1.7V
[01:51:48] <zeeshan|2> clearly ohm test doesnt tell you shit
[01:51:59] <fluffybitchx> actually, your ohms test is accurate.
[01:52:05] <zeeshan|2> how
[01:52:08] <zeeshan|2> im getting infinite
[01:52:17] <fluffybitchx> no, you're getting 8Mohm
[01:52:32] <tjtr33> but the DS1 will conduct from chassis to L1 in that setup
[01:52:42] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: no bulb connected
[01:52:45] <fluffybitchx> the meter's own resistance is generally in the range of 10mohm-1gohm... so you end up with a voltage divider.
[01:52:49] <zeeshan|2> 12v connected directly to motor chassis
[01:52:57] <zeeshan|2> and im measuring voltage at the wires coming out of the motor
[01:53:02] <tjtr33> ok
[01:53:02] <zeeshan|2> the motor leads specifically, and brake
[01:53:08] <zeeshan|2> motor is fried
[01:53:13] <fluffybitchx> what's it read on a current scale?
[01:53:21] <zeeshan|2> ??
[01:53:34] <fluffybitchx> switch your meter to amps instead of volts
[01:53:42] <zeeshan|2> youre trying to make my meter explode?
[01:53:46] <fluffybitchx> but, yeah, you shouldn't be reading anything. the motor is likely damaged...
[01:53:55] <zeeshan|2> bright side
[01:53:56] * LeelooMinai hopes zeeshan has at least few multimeters
[01:53:58] <zeeshan|2> i didnt blow up anotehr drive
[01:54:01] <fluffybitchx> It's very odd that both the motor and brake would be shorted to case, however.
[01:54:13] <fluffybitchx> time to take it apart and see what it all looks like
[01:54:13] <zeeshan|2> hey man
[01:54:18] <zeeshan|2> im just telling you what its telling me
[01:54:22] <zeeshan|2> in my experience
[01:54:28] <zeeshan|2> winding shorts are not easy to find even after you take it apart
[01:54:44] <zeeshan|2> you pretty much have to get it rewound
[01:55:07] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: This link _might_ allow you to play the game I wrote in 1983 inside an emultor inside a web browser: http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekplay.cgi?title=Johnny+Reb&pub=MC+Lothlorien+Ltd&year=1983&id=0002635&game=/games/j/JohnnyReb.tzx.zip&emu=3
[01:55:15] <fluffybitchx> no, winding shorts are not... but a big black blob where a winding was is pretty easy to spot, as is a broken brush holder rubbing on the frame, degreaded internal wiring, carbon or metal filings filling the housing, etc...
[01:55:27] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: congrads man
[01:55:28] <zeeshan|2> we found the problem
[01:55:29] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[01:55:46] <zeeshan|2> i can sleep easier tonight
[01:55:47] <fluffybitchx> I suspected this problem earlier, but the readings always came back good before.
[01:55:58] <zeeshan|2> yea the 8 Mohm threw me off.
[01:56:08] <zeeshan|2> im gonna recheck all this
[01:56:08] <fluffybitchx> andypugh: is it worth my trying to make java work?
[01:56:09] <Crom_> still MOV's man! HAHAHAa
[01:56:10] <zeeshan|2> with some other meters
[01:56:14] <zeeshan|2> crom ROFL
[01:56:17] <fluffybitchx> zeeshan|2: now try with 180V. :P
[01:56:26] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: let me try with AC
[01:56:35] <zeeshan|2> and use my hand too
[01:56:36] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: I doubt it, it's a 1983 game on a 16k z80
[01:56:50] <fluffybitchx> remember how I said that insulation testers always use high voltage, because many problems don't show up at low voltage resistance tests? :)
[01:57:10] <Crom_> what was the Atari 2600 4K RAM?
[01:57:50] <fluffybitchx> if it really is 8Mohm, it wouldn't be frying drives.
[01:58:01] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[01:58:02] <fluffybitchx> if it's 8Mohm at 0.5v and a dead short at 180V, on the other hand...
[01:58:52] <Crom_> yep, it's a 1v MOV
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[01:59:11] <fluffybitchx> I don't remember what my altair 8800 has, but unless someone here has a pdp-11 sitting in a box, it's probably the oldest here. :P
[01:59:33] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: I would have bought the other mill to retrofit vs this one
[01:59:48] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: I was _using_ a PDP11 at work 2 years ago
[02:00:06] <Crom_> fluffybitchx, true... your have boot loader ROM on that machine?
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[02:00:16] <fluffybitchx> andypugh: that's sad.
[02:00:29] <fluffybitchx> Crom_: good question.
[02:01:07] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, maybe of use http://www.eswtesters.com/documents/Electrical%20Test%20Procedures%20for%20Armatures,%20Stators%20and%20motors.PDF
[02:01:10] <andypugh> Not really. It was insalled in 1986 to run an engine dynamometer. It continued to do that job well until the dyno was replaced.
[02:01:27] <Crom_> or is it the 9 switches. set 8 bit, toggle clock
[02:01:35] <Crom_> or is it the 9 switches. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock
[02:02:09] <Crom_> unless you were luck and had a paper tape reader
[02:02:14] <Crom_> lucky
[02:02:55] <tjtr33> used asr33 clickety clickety clickety a bucket fulla chad
[02:03:19] <tjtr33> http://bytecollector.com/asr_33.htm
[02:05:14] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: I have a HP100LX somewhere…
[02:05:31] <andypugh> I gave away the Whitechapel HiTec
[02:05:59] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitechapel_Computer_Works
[02:06:09] <andypugh> But it still runs at a friend's house
[02:07:18] <tjtr33> Milliard Gargantubrain love it
[02:07:30] <fluffybitchx> I regret scrapping my tektronix scientist calculator...
[02:08:28] <fluffybitchx> http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/tek909.html I had one of those
[02:09:06] <fluffybitchx> 329 ICs!
[02:10:10] <CaptHindsight> http://c1.q-assets.com/images/products/p/md/md-030_1z.jpg my first calculator ~ age 4
[02:10:11] <jdh> I have two pdp11's in production
[02:10:45] <fluffybitchx> I blew it up doing something idiotic while trying to repair something else, and tossed it, not realizing it'd be special some day in the future.
[02:12:37] <fluffybitchx> (idiotic: I plugged a cable in backwards.)
[02:15:25] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, an old school auto repair shop may have this equipment a growler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growler_%28electrical_device%29
[02:15:33] * fluffybitchx has a growler
[02:15:40] <fluffybitchx> and I pasted two videos on how to use one before.
[02:15:56] <Crom_> I have 3 grownlers
[02:15:58] <tjtr33> ah, i mentioned it also, good idea
[02:16:16] <fluffybitchx> so you can test three motors at once? :P
[02:18:22] <tjtr33> how come his frame ground is not his GND ground?
[02:20:28] <fluffybitchx> ?
[02:20:46] <andypugh> Goodnight chaps
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[02:21:06] <tjtr33> his dwg showed a potential from GND to motor_chassis
[02:22:11] <tjtr33> isnt the motor bolted to machine frame & machine frame connected to star gnd?
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[02:23:57] <fluffybitchx> he's testing the motor on his workbench now
[02:27:35] <XXCoder> back
[02:29:00] <XXCoder> wow so many chips
[02:40:23] <fluffybitchx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IMO_Muster_station_sign.jpg so who, without reading the description, can figure out what that sign is?
[02:41:06] <XXCoder> yes, 4 mini people must help any family at this location
[02:41:18] <XXCoder> seriously dunno
[02:41:57] <fluffybitchx> I'm not sure which is worse, signs in a language you can't read, or graphics that make just as much sense.
[02:42:03] <jdh> anyone know of a uC board like an arduino kind of, but not... mostly set up to do USB HID
[02:43:01] <_methods> pro micro
[02:43:02] <zeeshan|2> does it growl
[02:43:03] <_methods> teensy
[02:43:21] <_methods> off the top of my head both of those should do usb hid
[02:43:23] <zeeshan|2> i connected +12v to my entire chasis of the mill
[02:43:28] <zeeshan|2> and decided to probe various things
[02:43:34] <zeeshan|2> like x and y motors
[02:43:40] <zeeshan|2> they both read 5.4V out of the motor leads
[02:43:41] <zeeshan|2> ?
[02:43:52] <Tom_itx> jdh have you looked at the LUFA library?
[02:44:01] <_methods> there's that too
[02:44:12] <_methods> with normal arduino and lufa
[02:44:44] <_methods> the teensy 2.0's are cheap now too and do usbhid out of the box with the teensy firmware i think
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[02:45:02] <jdh> that's the one I was looking for. thanks
[02:45:05] <_methods> the teensy bootloader
[02:45:25] <Tom_itx> i wonder if dean took his site down... i can't find it now
[02:45:31] <_methods> the teensy 3.0's are getting cheaper too
[02:45:49] <zeeshan|2> is there a reason if i a connect 12v to a 24vdc power supply
[02:45:51] <_methods> they use cortex m0 i think
[02:45:55] <jdh> actually I was thinking of one that had dual usb
[02:45:59] <_methods> the new teensy 3.1 is using a m4 i think
[02:46:01] <zeeshan|2> connect 12v to the ground of a 24vdc power supply
[02:46:09] <zeeshan|2> that the L1 probes 12v also ?
[02:46:46] <Crom_> ok... 51.43 degree x 7 = 360.01 close enough
[02:48:40] <fluffybitchx> zeeshan|2: that would suggest there's nothing actually wrong with the z motor, then...
[02:48:50] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: :-(
[02:49:09] <zeeshan|2> why would there be any voltage at any of the motor leads anyway?
[02:49:12] <zeeshan|2> that makes no sense
[02:49:46] <fluffybitchx> built-up carbon being slightly leaky, dirty grease, etc.
[02:50:12] <zeeshan|2> what is bothering me more now is when i connect 12v to my power supply chassis
[02:50:17] <zeeshan|2> it spits out 12v l1
[02:51:57] <fluffybitchx> that means something is conducting between ground and l1... which isn't entirely odd. how much it's conducting is a better test.
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[02:52:13] <fluffybitchx> do you tie ground and neutral together in your panel? (hint: you shouldn't)
[02:52:20] <zeeshan|2> main panel yea
[02:52:40] <fluffybitchx> the one on the machine, not the one in the house
[02:52:46] <zeeshan|2> oh ofcourse not
[02:52:46] <zeeshan|2> :P
[02:53:08] <pcw_home> measuring leakage with a voltmeter is not very useful
[02:53:40] <fluffybitchx> so how are you testing this? you connected +12V to your machine's ground, and measuring from your 12 supply's - to l1 is reading 12v?
[02:53:49] <zeeshan|2> yes
[02:54:14] <fluffybitchx> put your handy 2v light bulb between - and l1 and make sure it doesn't light.
[02:54:15] <fluffybitchx> 12v
[02:54:45] <zeeshan|2> wouldnt a led be a better idea
[02:54:51] <zeeshan|2> since its more sensitive
[02:55:03] <zeeshan|2> needs like 25mA to light up vs the 1.6 A
[02:55:14] <pcw_home> put a 1k resistor across the voltmeter
[02:55:23] <fluffybitchx> I'm testing for a gross short, but yes, an led would work too.
[02:55:29] <pcw_home> than you have 1V = 1ma
[02:55:55] <fluffybitchx> how sure are you of your house's ground? and are you still using a 12v car battery, or a 12v power supply, which may tie - to ground with a jumper or such?
[02:56:23] <pcw_home> 12V PC power supplys common is power ground
[02:56:30] <zeeshan|2> what do you mean how sure
[02:56:53] <zeeshan|2> im gonna try the 1k / led test
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[02:57:35] <fluffybitchx> I mean, when your machine is operating normally, are you sure your ground lug in your machine makes it all the way back, through wiring, plugs, receptacles, subpanels, whatever, to your house ground in your main panel, where it is correctly tied to neutral?
[02:58:08] <zeeshan|2> yes
[02:58:11] <zeeshan|2> brb
[02:59:28] <fluffybitchx> I'm spending too much time working on your mill instead of working on my mill.... I'll need to find something you can do for mine. :)
[03:02:10] <zeeshan|2> haha
[03:02:16] <zeeshan|2> illl machine you stuff!
[03:02:29] <zeeshan|2> w/ a 1k ohm resistor in series with the probe
[03:02:32] <zeeshan|2> still gettin 12v
[03:03:50] <fluffybitchx> parallel, not series
[03:05:14] <Crom_> ok 20" circle. 7 pins at 8" from center included angle is 51.43 degrees each segment
[03:05:56] <Crom_> splitting the circle in half so 4 holes on 1 half, and 3 holes on the other
[03:06:49] <zeeshan|2> o
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[03:10:11] <Tom_itx> wonder why or2.out isn't flipping when either input is tripped
[03:11:01] <Tom_itx> watching it in hal show
[03:14:01] <zeeshan|2> okay im getting bs reading
[03:14:05] <zeeshan|2> with the 1k ohm in parallel
[03:14:09] <zeeshan|2> w. voltmeter
[03:14:21] <zeeshan|2> its telling me 0 mA for everything
[03:14:21] <zeeshan|2> lol
[03:14:53] <fluffybitchx> ok, so it's minor leakage, not a short.
[03:15:10] <zeeshan|2> no
[03:15:20] <zeeshan|2> when i even connect it to the 12v directly
[03:15:24] <zeeshan|2> it still measures 0
[03:15:35] <fluffybitchx> then you're doing something very wrong.
[03:15:37] <knas> hey i was here asking a bunch of questions yesterday about a slave axis that won't work properly, one of the motors seems to stop going all of a sudden. Well i've narrowed it down to it maybe having something to do with microstepping because it's only when i try and jog the motor reallly slow that it's showing up. Furthermore i've noticed that once the stalling happens one motor will run one way and the other will run the other way - agai
[03:15:37] <knas> n only at really low speeds. any hints on what's up much appreciated.
[03:15:54] <pcw_home> Tom_itx: did you addf the function to a thread
[03:15:56] <fluffybitchx> did you attempt to measure the mA output of your 12v power supply and pop the meter's current scale fuse?
[03:16:11] <malcom2073> Got my mill home, woot!
[03:16:16] <zeeshan|2> congrads!!
[03:16:28] <pcw_home> The meter should be on voltage
[03:16:32] <zeeshan|2> it is on voltage
[03:16:37] <malcom2073> Only took 5 hours, a crane, and taking the ram off to get it loaded
[03:16:40] <fluffybitchx> then why is it telling you 0mA? :P
[03:16:43] <malcom2073> Took two of us 5 minutes to unload it haha
[03:16:47] <zeeshan|2> sometimes it tells me 50mA
[03:16:51] <zeeshan|2> sometimes it tells me 0 ma
[03:16:53] <zeeshan|2> it cycles
[03:17:01] <fluffybitchx> ... why is it reading A if it's on voltage?
[03:17:11] <Tom_itx> mmm i swear or2 isn't working like it's supposed to
[03:17:22] <zeeshan|2> i meant to say V.
[03:17:25] * fluffybitchx tries to figure out if the problem is the meter or the typer
[03:17:25] <zeeshan|2> not mA
[03:17:28] <Tom_itx> it's in hal show but either input trigger results in no output
[03:17:35] <zeeshan|2> mV
[03:17:47] <zeeshan|2> lemme read above
[03:17:53] <zeeshan|2> i think i misread
[03:17:56] <fluffybitchx> so, with a 1K resistor in parallel with the meter probes, your meter reads 0V even when connected to a 12V power source?
[03:18:15] <fluffybitchx> that sounds to me like your wiring is faulty....
[03:18:29] <pcw_home> hal show doesn not update, you want hal watch
[03:18:29] <zeeshan|2> maybe my meter is garbage
[03:18:55] <Tom_itx> woops
[03:18:59] <Tom_itx> op error
[03:19:02] <zeeshan|2> gonna try another meter
[03:19:10] <Tom_itx> i had the servo thread commented out :)
[03:19:24] <_methods> hehe
[03:19:25] <_methods> that sux
[03:19:43] <pcw_home> well that will keep the outputs static
[03:20:29] <Tom_itx> heh sure would
[03:20:41] <Tom_itx> now i think i need to move edge before the or
[03:20:59] <Tom_itx> or my one shot won't work switching directly from forwared to reverse spindle directions
[03:20:59] <malcom2073> A bit dark, but it's in the garage now: http://i.imgur.com/lphUlfm.jpg
[03:21:04] <Tom_itx> the output stays high
[03:21:21] <malcom2073> Better brighter photos tomorrow when the sun comes out
[03:21:25] <Tom_itx> so i need 2 edge triggers on each or input instead of one on it's output
[03:21:58] <pcw_home> or set the oneshot to trigger on either edge
[03:22:09] <pcw_home> and feed it spindle dir
[03:25:58] <Tom_itx> hmm
[03:26:05] <Tom_itx> what' spindle dir ouput?
[03:26:20] <Tom_itx> hi for fwd, low for rev?
[03:26:26] * Tom_itx checks
[03:26:55] <Tom_itx> but i need it to trigger when either is enabled
[03:26:59] <Tom_itx> not a toggle
[03:27:09] <Tom_itx> i don't think spindle-dir will do that
[03:27:40] <Tom_itx> i'll watch it though
[03:27:43] <pcw_home> it will trigger the one shot when asserted or deasserted
[03:29:47] <Tom_itx> but what state is it in when the spindle is stopped?
[03:29:52] <Tom_itx> that's the problem i see
[03:30:17] <pcw_home> I assume its false (but may be wrong)
[03:31:16] <Tom_itx> i don't see a motion.spindle-dir in the list
[03:31:33] <zeeshan|2> i think i found the problem
[03:31:38] <zeeshan|2> i have fans in parallel w/ the power supply.
[03:32:05] <zeeshan|2> when i disconnect the fans, i get .69V reading at the power supplies
[03:32:14] <zeeshan|2> 69 mA leakage current iguess
[03:32:40] <zeeshan|2> is that acceptable for 3 power supplies in parallel?
[03:32:51] <zeeshan|2> 5v 60w, 240w 24v, 400w pc supply
[03:33:25] <pcw_home> 0.69V is 0.69 mA
[03:33:31] <zeeshan|2> oh
[03:33:43] <zeeshan|2> im reading 0 to the motor leads
[03:33:55] <zeeshan|2> and 0.007V to brake coil
[03:34:42] <zeeshan|2> so the damn motor is okay after all.
[03:34:43] <zeeshan|2> shrug
[03:35:34] <fluffybitchx> 0.69ma leaking for a fan sounds a bit high...
[03:35:40] <zeeshan|2> not for a fan
[03:35:44] <zeeshan|2> thats just for the 3 supplies
[03:35:50] <zeeshan|2> when i close the fans
[03:35:51] <fluffybitchx> which supplies?
[03:35:52] <zeeshan|2> i get 12v.
[03:35:59] <Tom_itx> ok that's better
[03:36:10] <zeeshan|2> 5v 60w, 240w 24v, 400w pc supply in parallel
[03:36:22] <zeeshan|2> + 3 fans in parallel (i disconenct these when i got .69V reading)
[03:36:25] <Tom_itx> from spindle stop to either direction i get a pulse and from forward to reverse i get a pulse and vise versa
[03:37:02] <fluffybitchx> so you're still hooking 12v to the chasis ground, and measuring the voltage at l1, with a 1k resistor in parallel with the meter probes?
[03:37:12] <zeeshan|2> yea
[03:37:22] <zeeshan|2> so remember neutral is a gross short right now
[03:37:31] <zeeshan|2> cause ground and neutral are connected at the home panel
[03:37:39] <fluffybitchx> you're doing this with the system live?!
[03:37:41] <witnit> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARDINGE-HCT-Turret-Chucking-Lathe-Second-Operation-With-5C-Collet-Closer-/310980165124?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4867dcbe04
[03:37:45] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: no
[03:37:49] <zeeshan|2> but ground and neutral are always connected
[03:37:52] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, are you using North American household 240 'single phase' (made for large household appliances) or real 240 3 phase?
[03:37:53] <witnit> looks expensive to me, but maybe someone in california?
[03:37:55] <zeeshan|2> even with the disconnect
[03:38:03] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: single phase
[03:38:08] <fluffybitchx> tjtr33: north american split single phase
[03:38:22] <zeeshan|2> N --------- fan --------- L1
[03:38:27] <zeeshan|2> if n is 12v
[03:38:33] <zeeshan|2> and i measure at l1
[03:38:42] <zeeshan|2> it should essentially be a short?
[03:38:46] <fluffybitchx> so all you're measuring is that the fans conduct line to neutral. that's not really surprising. :)
[03:38:48] <zeeshan|2> cause the fan windings offer o resistance
[03:38:50] <tjtr33> yah yah and any error in house can cause you grief,,, sorry if i'm not optimistic
[03:38:52] <zeeshan|2> yea
[03:39:18] <zeeshan|2> okay power system checks out ok
[03:39:30] <Tom_itx> ok the fwd/rev relay signal pulsed .3696ms before the inhibit pulse but i don't think the relays will react that quick
[03:39:43] <zeeshan|2> and now im unsure about the frigging z motor again
[03:39:47] <zeeshan|2> back to where i started lol
[03:39:55] <fluffybitchx> if the z motor measures the same as the x and y motors...
[03:40:06] <zeeshan|2> well z motor leads measure 1.7
[03:40:06] <fluffybitchx> I'm surprised how much leakage it has, but it seems all three read the same.
[03:40:09] <zeeshan|2> x and y measure 5v
[03:40:15] <fluffybitchx> measure with your 1k resistor connected.
[03:40:19] <zeeshan|2> o
[03:40:20] <fluffybitchx> it'll be 0
[03:41:12] <fluffybitchx> you're making a voltage divider between your meter and the motor leakage... 6v would mean your meter has the same impedance as the leakage in the motor...
[03:42:36] <fluffybitchx> if it read a good 12v, it'd show a major failure, not just leakage
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[03:46:10] <Tom_itx> pcw_home would a cap across the relay inputs slow them down a bit?
[03:46:17] <Tom_itx> or would that be bad
[03:46:39] <Tom_itx> i don't really want the relay switching before the inhibit even if it's only .3ms
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[03:47:32] <Tom_itx> the coil input that is...
[03:48:02] <fluffybitchx> ouch. I just worked out that to run an LED off my 60V supply, I need a 1W resistor.
[03:48:14] <zeeshan|2> why ouch
[03:48:47] <zeeshan|2> 2mV on the Z motor
[03:48:48] <fluffybitchx> because wasting a watt of power to run a 30mW led is just silly?
[03:48:51] <zeeshan|2> 11mV on the x and y motor
[03:49:00] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: lol
[03:49:12] <fluffybitchx> ... so the suspect motor leaks LESS than the good ones?
[03:49:18] <zeeshan|2> yea
[03:49:31] <fluffybitchx> now slowly rotate the z motor through a complete turn while measuring
[03:49:32] <zeeshan|2> its got 7 mV on the brake coils.
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[03:50:48] <fluffybitchx> now I need to figure out how to invent a 3.2K 1W resistor from my bucket of 1/4W resistors.
[03:51:01] * fluffybitchx puts four 1K in series and calls it close enough
[03:51:02] <pcw_home> The relay will not be faster than 10 ms or so
[03:51:23] <Tom_itx> yeah but i need a tiny relay across the inhibit line on the drive too
[03:51:35] <Tom_itx> i've got some 5v HE101 hamlin relays i was gonna use for that
[03:51:39] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: im glad its working out
[03:51:40] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[03:51:44] <Tom_itx> slowly
[03:51:52] <fluffybitchx> ohh, I have a pink LED. should I use pink for my 60V rail hot indicator? hot... pink...
[03:51:58] <pcw_home> maybe you need to delay the direction relay
[03:52:12] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, i'm just getting the code ready hoping that interface will work
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[03:52:35] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, yea that's why i was asking about the cap across it's input
[03:52:47] <pcw_home> better in hal
[03:52:56] <Tom_itx> edge?
[03:53:03] <pcw_home> delay comp
[03:53:07] <Tom_itx> oh
[03:53:17] <fluffybitchx> dissipating .841W in a 1W resistor is unwise, right?
[03:53:21] <Tom_itx> it doesn't need much and may not need it at all
[03:53:33] <Tom_itx> i just don't want a tiny spike hitting the relay contacts
[03:53:39] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: dont be a ricer
[03:53:42] <zeeshan|2> forget the led ! :P
[03:54:10] <fluffybitchx> I like supply on LEDs.
[03:54:16] <Tom_itx> in a perfect world, the inhibit would hit then the fwd/rev relays would switch
[03:54:19] <fluffybitchx> they make diagnostics easier.
[03:54:26] <zeeshan|2> fair enough
[03:54:29] <pcw_home> so disable time of 100 ms or so and time delay of 50 ms
[03:54:38] <fluffybitchx> especially if they're not brightness regulated, so you can see it dim on load and flash on motor decel...
[03:54:48] <pcw_home> (time delay on dir relay)
[03:54:55] <Tom_itx> right
[03:55:09] <fluffybitchx> anything interesting while rotating the z motor a turn?
[03:55:15] <Tom_itx> i guess that would only take one delay comp
[03:55:26] <pcw_home> Yeah
[03:55:39] <Tom_itx> i just don
[03:55:59] <Tom_itx> i just don't want too much delay between switching for ridid tapping and things like that
[03:56:05] <pcw_home> Ive found its pretty easy to try this stuff on the fly with halcmd
[03:56:32] <Tom_itx> btw is there a way to reload the hal file without restarting lcnc every time?
[03:56:34] <fluffybitchx> bah, ok, just to make you happy, I'll use green rather than hot pink.
[03:57:06] <Tom_itx> i'm not so experienced with halcmd yet
[03:57:13] <pcw_home> No but you can wire/unwire stuff with halcmd when linuxcnc is running
[03:57:36] <Crom_> finally burning ubuntu 10.04 boot cd77
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[03:58:53] <pcw_home> 1991 linuxcnc
[03:58:55] <pcw_home> 1992 halcmd loadrt minmax
[03:58:56] <pcw_home> 1993 halcmd addf minmax.0 servo-thread
[03:58:58] <pcw_home> 1994 halcmd show pin minmax
[03:58:59] <pcw_home> 1995 net read-delay minmax.0.in hm2_7i76e.0.dpll.phase-error-us
[03:59:01] <pcw_home> 1996 halcmd net read-delay minmax.0.in hm2_7i76e.0.dpll.phase-error-us
[03:59:07] <Tom_itx> gawd i love being able to make bitfiles... moved things around a bit to get another io or two for this...
[03:59:30] <pcw_home> (just did this to test maximum read jitter on my test rig)
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[03:59:49] <Tom_itx> what's minmax for?
[03:59:54] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfnEuRA7-vo
[03:59:54] <Tom_itx> i don't need that do i?
[03:59:56] <zeeshan|2> fluke meter
[04:00:03] <zeeshan|2> @ 2300V
[04:00:07] <pcw_home> minimum and maximum values of a float
[04:00:35] <Tom_itx> do i need that for delay?
[04:00:36] <pcw_home> no just showing that you can test stuff interactively
[04:00:39] <Tom_itx> ok
[04:01:10] <skunkworks> halcmd is aweesome
[04:01:18] <XXCoder> random thought when I ead about leds here. I wonder if theres capactors big enough to make led flashlight last in least a hour
[04:01:22] <Tom_itx> i should get to know it i suppose
[04:01:23] <pcw_home> it is
[04:01:31] <fluffybitchx> zeeshan|2: are you goofing off and watching random videos instead of working on your mill?
[04:01:37] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx:
[04:01:38] <zeeshan|2> lol
[04:01:43] <zeeshan|2> im honestly frustrated w/ my mill
[04:01:50] <zeeshan|2> randomly blows fucking drives
[04:01:52] <zeeshan|2> for no good reason
[04:02:05] <fluffybitchx> me too. every part seems to work individually, but it fails when you put it together.
[04:02:23] <zeeshan|2> i dont mean to put pcw down
[04:02:26] <zeeshan|2> but i dont think moving from l2 to l1
[04:02:36] <zeeshan|2> is going to save my drive
[04:02:55] <fluffybitchx> unless you have a bad neutral...
[04:02:57] <pcw_home> I think its possible
[04:03:38] <zeeshan|2> how to find a bad neutral
[04:03:39] <zeeshan|2> :P
[04:04:04] <Tom_itx> ohm it?
[04:05:24] <fluffybitchx> that video is part of why I have a 40kv probe. heh.
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[04:06:27] <pcw_home> think of the big thump you get from multiple drives switching on on L1 charging their
[04:06:29] <pcw_home> filter capacitors and pulling neutral down for 30ms or so when the contactor switches,
[04:06:30] <pcw_home> nicely frying the drive on L2
[04:07:09] <fluffybitchx> it'd have to be a very bad neutral...
[04:07:36] <fluffybitchx> plug the largest load you have between l1 and neutral (space heater, etc), and measure neutral to ground.
[04:08:02] <Crom_> bbl, installing a cd drive and rebooting to 10.04 ubuntu cd
[04:08:04] <zeeshan|2> that'd have to be my space heater
[04:08:09] <zeeshan|2> 1400w
[04:08:20] <zeeshan|2> you wanna see if it explodes?
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[04:09:03] <fluffybitchx> it won't explode. it'll just measure a couple volts.
[04:10:10] <zeeshan|2> honestly i know its not a bad neutral wire
[04:10:22] <zeeshan|2> i plugged it into a completely different plug
[04:10:26] <zeeshan|2> and also remember
[04:10:32] <zeeshan|2> ive cycled z drive w/ the same wiring
[04:10:35] <zeeshan|2> 25+ times now
[04:10:41] <zeeshan|2> some of those times abusingly.
[04:10:49] <zeeshan|2> like a kid playing with a light switch :)
[04:10:56] <zeeshan|2> it did not blow it up.
[04:10:59] <zeeshan|2> but then again, it has been shifted to l1
[04:11:04] <fluffybitchx> it's your wiring or your motor. pick one. :P
[04:11:05] <fluffybitchx> lol
[04:11:14] <zeeshan|2> only way to find out
[04:11:16] <zeeshan|2> is hook up the motor
[04:11:17] <zeeshan|2> :-)
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[04:11:55] <Tom_itx> you've been stewing over that motor for 2 days now... plug it in!
[04:11:58] <fluffybitchx> measuring neutral resistance is easy, and will help eliminate things.
[04:12:08] <Tom_itx> put some resistance in series with it
[04:12:49] <fluffybitchx> ?
[04:12:49] <zeeshan|2> honestly im tired of fakin around
[04:12:59] <zeeshan|2> im just gonna take this motor to a local servo repair place
[04:13:03] <zeeshan|2> theyre like 20 min away
[04:13:15] <zeeshan|2> ask them to high pot test it
[04:13:17] <zeeshan|2> and do all their tests.
[04:13:28] <Tom_itx> take the drivers with you
[04:13:35] <Tom_itx> so they can see what happened
[04:13:46] <fluffybitchx> heh, that's not a bad idea. this motor did THIS (point to stack of bad drives).
[04:13:50] <zeeshan|2> i highly doubt theyre good with microelectronics
[04:13:54] <zeeshan|2> LOL fluffybitchx
[04:14:08] <Tom_itx> i didn't say they were but they're probably not dummies either
[04:14:17] <zeeshan|2> a lot of these rebuild guys
[04:14:19] <zeeshan|2> are plug and play
[04:14:36] <Tom_itx> so find the oldet fart in the building and ask him
[04:14:41] <Tom_itx> oldest*
[04:14:44] <zeeshan|2> :)
[04:15:21] <Tom_itx> turn on his hearing aid first
[04:15:27] <fluffybitchx> the motor rebuild shop here seems competently staffed
[04:15:54] <Tom_itx> i have one i go to for motor help and i trust them
[04:16:29] <fluffybitchx> they once said they might have a job for me... I probably should have taken it.
[04:16:34] <fluffybitchx> this being broke all the time thing sucks.
[04:16:34] * Tom_itx quits delaying to write this delay code now...
[04:16:54] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: do you have qualifications??
[04:17:13] <fluffybitchx> no
[04:17:21] <zeeshan|2> you really should do night school or something
[04:17:28] <zeeshan|2> you know what youre doing when it comes w/ the stuff
[04:18:06] <fluffybitchx> school sucks. heh.
[04:18:11] <zeeshan|2> school = $$
[04:18:11] <Tom_itx> what the heck is the delay comp called?
[04:18:12] <zeeshan|2> :D
[04:18:19] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: time
[04:18:19] <fluffybitchx> I was going to teach, but couldn't put up with the educational system any longer.
[04:18:30] <Tom_itx> duh
[04:18:43] * fluffybitchx TAed for two years, running a lab class...
[04:19:08] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i bookmark this page
[04:19:11] <zeeshan|2> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/hal_components.html#r1_2_92
[04:19:17] <zeeshan|2> its my go to wheneever im looking for hal comps
[04:19:40] <zeeshan|2> i like how it gives descriptions
[04:19:43] <Tom_itx> i have it open already
[04:19:44] <zeeshan|2> without any of the syntax flooding it
[04:20:10] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: well do something you like
[04:20:16] <zeeshan|2> the best is when you're doing something you like
[04:20:19] <zeeshan|2> and getting paid for it :P
[04:20:19] <Tom_itx> oh... not that one :)
[04:20:38] <Tom_itx> is Cycle Timer used by the system??
[04:20:58] <fluffybitchx> I like helping and teaching people. they all refuse to pay. do you want to be the first to change this trend? :P
[04:21:03] <zeeshan|2> what are you tryiung to do tom
[04:21:06] <Tom_itx> it's code i don't think i put there...
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[04:21:13] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: i pay with machining
[04:21:14] <zeeshan|2> :-)
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[04:21:41] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 i'm making a delay for the fwd/rev relay to make sure it trips when the drive is in inhibit
[04:21:44] <zeeshan|2> https://github.com/araisrobo/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/components/timedelay.comp
[04:21:49] <zeeshan|2> look at how complex this timedelay comp is
[04:21:50] <zeeshan|2> lol
[04:21:52] <tjtr33> man timedelay
[04:21:52] <Tom_itx> to save the contacts
[04:22:38] <zeeshan|2> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/man/man9/timedelay.9.html
[04:23:28] <zeeshan|2> loadrt timedelay count=0, timedelay.0.on-delay 21390210239181seconds
[04:24:08] <zeeshan|2> net fwdrevdelay timedelay.0.out <whateveryou'retryingto delay>
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[04:24:11] <zeeshan|2> i think thats how it works
[04:24:50] <Tom_itx> i only need a few ms
[04:24:54] <zeeshan|2> no
[04:24:57] <zeeshan|2> you have toi put 290332190812382389 seconds
[04:24:59] <zeeshan|2> minimum
[04:25:07] <Tom_itx> what is that in min?
[04:25:09] <Tom_itx> 1?
[04:25:09] <pcw_home> The reason I suspect neutral is that in all three cases the drives were disabled when they popped
[04:25:10] <pcw_home> normally when disabled it would not cause a problem to have a armature short or short to ground in the motor
[04:25:12] <pcw_home> since all MOSFETs are off
[04:25:15] <zeeshan|2> couple decades i thin
[04:25:23] <zeeshan|2> im messing with you
[04:25:25] <zeeshan|2> the number is in seconds
[04:25:43] <Tom_itx> i would grow old waiting for that you ninny
[04:26:07] <zeeshan|2> i'd test out just the timer manually first
[04:26:14] <zeeshan|2> to ensure its owkring how you think it is
[04:26:35] <atom1> i'm doing everything with a logic analyzer
[04:26:46] <zeeshan|2> mr fancy pants
[04:26:50] <zeeshan|2> with his logic analyzer
[04:26:50] <zeeshan|2> !
[04:26:55] <atom1> no guesswork here
[04:27:08] <zeeshan|2> fak LeelooMinai really pissed me off
[04:27:28] <zeeshan|2> ive never met someone so selfish before :p
[04:27:41] <fluffybitchx> heh, what did she do now?
[04:27:54] <zeeshan|2> i dunno why i brought tha tup
[04:27:58] <zeeshan|2> logic analyzer reminded me
[04:28:02] <atom1> sry
[04:28:05] <zeeshan|2> :)
[04:28:17] <tjtr33> step away from the keyboard, step away from the motors and drives, take a rest
[04:28:25] <zeeshan|2> no
[04:28:28] <zeeshan|2> tonight we blow up another drive
[04:28:33] <zeeshan|2> it's been already 2 days since the last blow up
[04:28:48] <zeeshan|2> im just trying to setup my camera mount
[04:28:52] <zeeshan|2> so i can capture it on video thjis time
[04:29:17] <atom1> i suppose the delay value can be 0
[04:29:23] <pcw_home> You could do a cheap lopot test of the motor
[04:29:31] <zeeshan|2> how
[04:30:27] <fluffybitchx> wire 120v up to both leads, hold onto something grounded with one hand, poke the motor with the other hand.
[04:30:52] <pcw_home> get a 120V incandescent light bulb put it in series with the 120V hot and connect to one side or the motor wires
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[04:31:27] <zeeshan|2> i've done some shady things before
[04:31:32] <pcw_home> (making _very_ sure that the machine frame is grounded)
[04:31:34] <zeeshan|2> but i thats a little too much for me too
[04:31:34] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[04:31:42] <Tom_itx> oh hell.. try it
[04:31:46] <zeeshan|2> no
[04:31:48] <zeeshan|2> ill just get it tested
[04:31:53] <fluffybitchx> oh, and while you're at it, stick your finger in a light bulb socket.
[04:31:53] <Tom_itx> pfft
[04:32:27] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: only if you're touching the other end of the socket
[04:32:29] <tjtr33> pcw_home, he's got the motor off on a bench i hear.
[04:32:39] <fluffybitchx> did you do a neutral resistance test? (space heater, measure neutral-ground)
[04:32:43] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/blinktest2.jpg
[04:32:48] <Tom_itx> light bulbs are made for testing!
[04:32:54] <zeeshan|2> lol
[04:33:27] <pcw_home> Hipot is basically doing the same thing (at a higher voltage)
[04:33:37] <zeeshan|2> i think the eaton one
[04:33:38] <zeeshan|2> was at 1000v
[04:35:34] <zeeshan|2> http://en-us.fluke.com/products/insulation-testers/fluke-1507-insulation-resistance-tester.html#overview
[04:35:36] <zeeshan|2> thats what i need!
[04:36:29] <pcw_home> even an old hand cranked 500V megger would do
[04:36:30] <zeeshan|2> megger = high pot?
[04:36:45] <pcw_home> yep
[04:36:48] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-electronics/hamilton/megger-wm6-tester/1048320788?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[04:36:59] <zeeshan|2> hand crank one
[04:36:59] <zeeshan|2> :)
[04:37:38] <zeeshan|2> goes upto 500v
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[04:37:50] <pcw_home> Ha didnt know they still made hand cranked ones
[04:37:53] <tjtr33> interesting way to add B&C to stock 3 axis mill, its an add on nutating head (knucklehead) http://www.5-axis.com
[04:38:13] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33:
[04:38:14] <zeeshan|2> wow tha tis cool
[04:38:48] <tjtr33> just bolts on, up to you to have a 5 axis control tho
[04:38:54] <zeeshan|2> doesnt look too strong though
[04:39:07] <tjtr33> and uses this tooling HSK which looks good too
[04:39:35] <tjtr33> ? not too strong? really
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[04:40:28] <tjtr33> watch the youtubes, esp the how to mount
[04:40:29] <zeeshan|2> it looks like that 5th axis is pivoting
[04:40:34] <zeeshan|2> on like a 1" shaft
[04:40:41] <tjtr33> turns and tilts
[04:41:59] <tjtr33> uh the coupling is like cat40 or so to old spindle, and 2 big worms( you see the ends in front) and big dc motors sticking out back ( you dont see those easily)
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[04:50:01] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, how do i access the pwmgen dir signal to put the delay between it and the pin?
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[04:51:24] <pcw_home> Hmm not sure that the best way but you can read it at the GPIO pin
[04:52:04] <atom1> but i'd have to read it at the pin and send it back to the pin?
[04:52:27] <pcw_home> Not sure what your are trying to do
[04:52:55] <pcw_home> maybe better is to use the absolute component and use its sign bit
[04:52:56] <atom1> the delay needs to be on the fwd/rev signal from pwmgen to the relay signal
[04:54:11] <atom1> because pwmgen sends the direction from M3 M4 to the dir pin directly
[04:54:29] <atom1> i don't see how to get between it
[04:55:03] <pcw_home> If you dont use the PWM dir output you can use the absolute comp
[04:55:32] <atom1> so remove the dir pin from the bit file
[04:55:35] <pcw_home> so your direction pin to the relay is just GPIO
[04:56:03] <pcw_home> I think you have to because you need to gate it in hal
[04:56:18] <atom1> then where do i get the dir signal from? i don't see a motion.spindle-direction signal
[04:57:04] <atom1> that goes back to using motion.spindle-forward & motion.spindle-reverse
[04:57:13] <pcw_home> abs.N.sign
[04:57:33] <atom1> i'm not following you
[04:58:40] <pcw_home> spindle speed --> abs.0.in --> abs.0.out --> PWM
[04:58:41] <pcw_home> abs.0.sign --> spindle_dir
[04:59:11] <atom1> hmm
[04:59:39] <atom1> then put the delay after abs.0.sign
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[05:00:18] <pcw_home> something like that (I'm a long way away if it explodes)
[05:00:35] <atom1> that's why i'm bench testing it
[05:01:29] <pcw_home> is this a SCR speed control?
[05:01:34] <atom1> so abs can determine the direction from the PWM signal from pwmgen?
[05:01:43] <atom1> i think so
[05:01:49] <pcw_home> yes (man 9 abs)
[05:01:58] <atom1> i did
[05:03:50] <pcw_home> not only that is has three different direction outputs!
[05:05:38] <pcw_home> although sign and is-negative may be the same
[05:06:24] <atom1> so instead of:
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[05:06:32] <atom1> net spindle-speed-out motion.spindle-speed-out => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.value
[05:06:42] <atom1> i would have:
[05:06:45] <atom1> net spindle-speed motion.spindle-speed-out => abs.0.in
[05:06:46] <atom1> net spindle-speed-out abs.0.out hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.value
[05:07:30] <pcw_home> yes
[05:07:40] <atom1> then send abs.0.sign to the dir pin after the delay
[05:07:50] <atom1> as a GPIO pin
[05:08:03] <pcw_home> thats the idea
[05:08:10] <atom1> what a cluster fark
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[05:08:43] <atom1> all the functions will probably generate enough delay just by using them
[05:09:14] <atom1> without calling timedelay
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[05:09:39] <atom1> i'll test that..
[05:09:43] <pcw_home> if you plot the delay of simple hal functions you will fine that its ns
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[05:09:58] <atom1> i don't need much
[05:10:11] <atom1> but probably a bit more than that
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[05:10:24] <pcw_home> well you need millions of ns not a few...
[05:11:34] <pcw_home> all of the functions complete in less than a ms
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[05:12:13] <pcw_home> so you need the time delays and oneshots that take multiple thread times
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[05:16:27] <pcw_home> You can avoid sending the spindle speed through the abs comp by using motions absolute spindle speed
[05:16:29] <pcw_home> but the abs comp is still useful to get the direction (though motion spindle forward should be as good)
[05:16:36] <RyanS> This essentially an expensive alternative but the same as an impact wrench? http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M247
[05:17:16] <fluffybitchx> I seem to be tired to the point where I shouldn't be working on things.
[05:17:33] <fluffybitchx> I've fucking LOST the led I was going to hook up.
[05:17:53] <fluffybitchx> I thought I left it on my desk, it's not there. I checked the floor all around it, not there. I checked my workbench, not there. I checked on the floor around it...
[05:18:08] <pcw_home> Kind of looks like a impact wrench in a a can
[05:18:45] <RyanS> Isn't an impact wrench a bit brutal?
[05:18:51] <fluffybitchx> did I pick it up and carry it with me while looking for other parts, and set it down somewhere? I don't remember.
[05:18:54] <atom1> isn't motion.spindle-forward a bit? abs requires a float value input
[05:19:49] <fluffybitchx> that's an off-the-shelf 3/8" drive butterfly impact wrench with a remote actuator for the throttle.
[05:20:33] <pcw_home> just saying whats the difference between forward and sign of the spindle speed
[05:21:20] <pcw_home> not much (it may be the forward is 0 when spindle if off)
[05:22:11] <pcw_home> bbl leepy
[05:22:39] <RyanS> so pull stud holders are the ones that use a pneumatic cylinder rather than a wrench that actually has to unscrew the drawbar ?
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[05:26:54] <Crom_> back...
[05:28:04] <fluffybitchx> I fucking give up. I've now looked everywhere I've been since last time I had it. my LED simply doesn't exist anymore.
[05:28:06] <fluffybitchx> bbl, sleep.
[05:28:21] Crom_ is now known as Cromaglious
[05:28:25] <fluffybitchx> if radioshack is still open, I'll buy a new one tomorrow.
[05:28:31] <XXCoder> it walked away
[05:28:35] Cromaglious is now known as Cromaglious_
[05:28:42] <XXCoder> you should have chained it up ;)
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[05:33:12] <fluffybitchx> I shouldn't try to be productive while tired, but I spent my more-awake time helping people with their projects instead of working on my own.
[05:34:32] <Cromaglious_> fluffybitchx, hehe true... though my breakout is in the mail and the 3040 I'm using it at the makerspace
[05:35:31] <fluffybitchx> ?
[05:35:57] <Cromaglious_> I don't have anything here to work on until my controller and drivers get here
[05:36:34] * fluffybitchx has no idea what Cromaglious_ is responding to
[05:36:50] <Cromaglious_> <fluffybitchx> I shouldn't try to be productive while tired, but I spent my more-awake time helping people with their projects instead of working on my own.
[05:37:43] * fluffybitchx still doesn't see how the reply is related to that
[05:37:45] <fluffybitchx> bbl, sleep
[05:40:27] <Cromaglious_> durn it someone has tken my Nick and I want it BACK!!!
[05:43:45] <Cromaglious_> I don't /away
[05:44:05] <Cromaglious_> hmmm
[05:44:23] <Cromaglious_> my text is in grey I don't like it!
[05:45:18] <Cromaglious_> hmm
[05:45:24] <Cromaglious_> nope that ain't it
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[05:51:42] <Cromaglious_> nope that ain't it
[05:58:57] <Cromaglious_> yeah! finally black text
[05:59:18] <zeeshan|2> did the "lopot" test
[06:01:28] <zeeshan|2> didnt find anything wrong
[06:19:57] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/z/dSYAAOSwNSxU0gIE/$_20.JPG
[06:20:01] <zeeshan|2> found the motherload of cat40 holders
[06:20:05] <zeeshan|2> for dirt cheap, made in usa :-)
[06:20:20] <zeeshan|2> damn you cnc machine RUN!!
[06:23:13] Loetmichel2 is now known as Loetmichel
[06:25:17] <anarchos2> anyone work with robotic arms?
[06:25:24] <zeeshan|2> industrial ones?
[06:25:30] <anarchos2> you can get some pretty big cool looking used ones on ebay for $5-10k
[06:25:31] <anarchos2> yeah
[06:25:39] <zeeshan|2> yea ive worked with abb, fanuc
[06:26:20] <anarchos2> controlled by linuxcnc?
[06:26:24] <zeeshan|2> no
[06:26:25] <zeeshan|2> =D
[06:27:27] <anarchos2> i want a robot arm to load/unload cnc machines :P
[06:27:37] <anarchos2> for in the future, when i have the need for multiple cnc machines ;)
[06:27:39] <zeeshan|2> thats what they were used for @ work
[06:27:47] <zeeshan|2> well slightly a bit more
[06:27:56] <zeeshan|2> a robot would take a part from one turning center
[06:28:03] <zeeshan|2> move on a rail
[06:28:10] <zeeshan|2> hold the part in an induction furnace
[06:28:20] <zeeshan|2> then load it to a cooling conveyor
[06:28:30] <zeeshan|2> the robot that was a pain in the ass was
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[06:28:41] <anarchos2> heh
[06:28:44] <zeeshan|2> the one that picked up the part from conveyor
[06:28:48] <zeeshan|2> and loaded to conveyor
[06:28:53] <zeeshan|2> fucking thing always lost its coordinate
[06:28:58] <zeeshan|2> and crashed into the spindle chuck
[06:29:12] <zeeshan|2> good old hydraulic robot
[06:29:48] <zeeshan|2> id love to have one of those for doing tig welding
[06:31:42] <anarchos2> yes, a welding bot would be sweet
[06:31:52] <anarchos2> i'd like to make bike frames one day...
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[06:32:51] <anarchos2> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/FANUC-ROBOTIC-ARM-/231337158465?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35dcc4e741
[06:33:11] <zeeshan|2> thats a baby!
[06:33:26] <zeeshan|2> looks like its missing the drive control unit
[06:33:37] <anarchos2> yeah
[06:33:44] <anarchos2> that's what linuxcnc is for ;)
[06:33:51] <zeeshan|2> well youd need servo drives
[06:33:57] <anarchos2> i wonder if it uses regular fanuc motors/encoders?
[06:34:03] <zeeshan|2> yes
[06:34:05] <anarchos2> iirc pico systems has a fanuc compatable driver
[06:34:09] <zeeshan|2> and if its anything like ssi's motors
[06:34:12] <zeeshan|2> theyre a pain in the ass
[06:34:26] <zeeshan|2> but im sure it can be adapter
[06:34:32] <anarchos2> well, a fanuc converter, to go from fanuc->normal
[06:35:46] <anarchos2> http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3&products_id=22
[06:35:57] <zeeshan|2> lol
[06:36:01] <zeeshan|2> nice!
[06:36:41] <anarchos2> probably $1000 for a controller/amp system
[06:36:52] <anarchos2> so $2000 for my own robot! if only i had a place to put it..
[06:37:01] <zeeshan|2> that thing is small
[06:37:06] <zeeshan|2> you can put it in the corner of your room :)
[06:37:17] <zeeshan|2> "pass me a beer"
[06:37:32] <anarchos2> haha, that would be sweet
[06:38:31] <Cromaglious_> put it on a bridge crap suspended upside down
[06:38:36] <Cromaglious_> crane
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[06:39:30] <anarchos2> yes, that would be sweet, i always thought about that
[06:39:53] <anarchos2> a robot anywhere you need it
[06:40:35] <anarchos2> hmm that one is only 32kg, i bet i could fit it in my house :P
[06:44:32] <Cromaglious_> something ANdy was saying... Machine vision is faster and cheaper than using a prob to find material on a table
[06:44:38] <Cromaglious_> probe
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[07:16:55] <RyanS> so a pull stud toolholder is only essential if you are doing an ATC? impact wrench/drawbar is fine for changing by hand?
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[07:42:58] <RyanS> I think this guy must have a sense of humour $4300 https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/221447049/steampunk-desk-lamp-machine-salvage?ref=sr_gallery_1&ga_search_query=steampunk+desk+lamp&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery
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[07:58:04] <Deejay> moin
[08:00:23] <Cromaglious_> morning
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[17:02:36] <somenewguy> hase anyone here played with a pick and place machine?
[17:04:21] <_methods> i wish
[17:04:38] <_methods> i could screw up electronics at an even faster pace with one of those
[17:06:36] <somenewguy> haha yeah
[17:06:58] <somenewguy> great way to throw SMD components around the room when ur coworkers have modified a crappy machine to be even crappier
[17:09:54] <CaptHindsight> somenewguy: did you build that delta duino machine?
[17:10:23] <somenewguy> no I'm not that cool
[17:10:41] <CaptHindsight> http://firepick1.github.io/
[17:12:48] <CaptHindsight> http://delta.firepick.org/store/firepick-delta-prototype $300
[17:12:58] <somenewguy> interesting, never saw that
[17:13:01] <CaptHindsight> how bad can it be?
[17:13:03] <somenewguy> ok 300, does this thing actually work?
[17:13:19] <somenewguy> site is loading slow here so forgive me as I post and read at the same time
[17:13:30] <CaptHindsight> it's s cheap half plastic delta robot
[17:13:56] <CaptHindsight> the software works
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[17:14:15] <CaptHindsight> all it needs is a better design if you seriously want to make boards
[17:14:25] <somenewguy> hmm
[17:14:43] <CaptHindsight> they are targeting the maker/reprap crowd
[17:14:46] <somenewguy> prior to me getting involved, the boards guys bought a 5k pick and place
[17:15:06] <somenewguy> its pretty miserable, design is alright, feeders are a joke tho (manual advance, so what's the point even)
[17:15:28] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/firepick1/FireREST/wiki
[17:15:30] <somenewguy> but the software is a massive kludge and was clearly cobbled together by programmers that don't use CNC machines
[17:15:46] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/firepick1/FireSight/wiki
[17:16:00] <somenewguy> it would be great to see if I can use that vision control stuff
[17:16:17] <CaptHindsight> yes, it uses openCV
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[17:17:15] <CaptHindsight> openCV with linuxcnc and some decent hardware
[17:17:39] <somenewguy> yeah
[17:17:51] <somenewguy> I'm trying to see if I can/should convert our machine to linuxcnc
[17:18:03] <somenewguy> I just need the guy who bought the machine to admit defeat and let me just get the thing working
[17:18:15] <CaptHindsight> sooner or later
[17:18:16] <somenewguy> him breathing down my neck kind of cuts down on productivity
[17:18:34] <moorbo> the most frustrating thing ever ^
[17:18:40] <somenewguy> yeap
[17:18:45] <somenewguy> esp casue he really doesn't kon wwhat he is doing
[17:18:53] <moorbo> do they ever?
[17:18:55] <CaptHindsight> most of those machines are a proprietary kludge of legacy going back to the 80's
[17:18:57] <somenewguy> I modified the machien to be used for QC currently (he broke all the cameras and mounts)
[17:19:11] <CaptHindsight> crashes?
[17:19:16] <moorbo> I need a cheap mill
[17:19:19] <somenewguy> basically its a CNC camera currently
[17:19:19] <moorbo> any suggestions
[17:19:22] <moorbo> liek a desktop mill
[17:19:43] <somenewguy> moorbo, the chinese one from little machine shop is fairly decent, the z motion is lumpy to
[17:19:48] <somenewguy> if you can swing it I love my taig
[17:19:58] <somenewguy> a little pricier and a little lighter, but the precision is very good
[17:19:58] <moorbo> any links?
[17:20:07] <moorbo> or model name
[17:20:09] <moorbo> number/
[17:20:19] <somenewguy> CaptHindsight: no, he said the "board mount is stupid so I made this custom one"
[17:20:35] <somenewguy> taig only makes 2 models, a cnc and a manual one, a quick google will find it for sure
[17:20:43] <moorbo> ok
[17:20:56] <somenewguy> I wish I could blame his mods on crashes...
[17:21:05] <moorbo> ah reminds me of the proxxon
[17:21:14] <somenewguy> hes just a force of nature, which makes him a good hacker but a pita to work with
[17:22:09] <moorbo> the taig is fairly pricy though..
[17:22:11] <somenewguy> i think the machine currently runs homecnc heavily modified? does anyone know about taht stuff?
[17:22:31] <somenewguy> moorbo, yes, but it is good quality, I got mine second hand for very cheap, just under 1k for the CNC model
[17:22:40] <moorbo> somenewguy: ebay?
[17:22:45] <moorbo> I'll have a gander anyways
[17:22:49] <moorbo> somenewguy: thanks for the tip
[17:22:51] <somenewguy> np
[17:23:14] <somenewguy> the proxxon are pretty nice, but they are super tiny, at least the ones I have seen in person
[17:23:50] <moorbo> have you seen the pocketnc?
[17:23:51] <somenewguy> next week I open up the control box on the Madell pick and place and see what hte control electronics are
[17:23:58] <somenewguy> to see if I can convert ot linuxcnc
[17:24:02] <moorbo> thats what got me wanting to buy a desktop mill
[17:24:04] <somenewguy> it communicates over a serail port
[17:24:12] <moorbo> but they want too much
[17:24:18] <somenewguy> any guess what hardware I might find in there?
[17:24:22] <somenewguy> pocketnc
[17:24:27] <moorbo> pocketnc.com
[17:24:40] <somenewguy> 5axis
[17:25:11] <moorbo> yeah
[17:25:18] <somenewguy> pretty slick, but what software would you use to generate toolpaths?
[17:25:19] <moorbo> it's quite the endevour
[17:25:29] <moorbo> somenewguy: I have axis to hypermill
[17:25:32] <moorbo> access
[17:25:35] <moorbo> christ englrish
[17:25:51] <moorbo> the cam isn't a problem really, the 3500$ price tag is
[17:26:04] <archivist> make your own
[17:26:16] <somenewguy> looks a little flexible tbh, but still very cool
[17:26:22] <somenewguy> and considering the size it might be rigid enough
[17:26:32] <somenewguy> I am curious about the drive motor, might need one for my mill
[17:26:35] <moorbo> it has a pretty small build volume
[17:26:37] <somenewguy> (still have belt speed control)
[17:27:28] <archivist> I think the multi stepper to belts on the rotary may be a fatal error
[17:27:48] <moorbo> archivist: may be
[17:28:11] <moorbo> If I was planning on making tinnnnny turbines
[17:28:17] <moorbo> I guess that'd be a good machine
[17:28:39] <archivist> how can the steppers ever be accurately in phase and not fighting each other
[17:28:49] <moorbo> send'em an email and ask
[17:28:58] <moorbo> I'm guessing they have a solution
[17:29:05] <moorbo> or maybe they're flying on the seat of their pants
[17:29:07] <moorbo> who knows.
[17:29:29] <archivist> if they had solutions they would be on sale already, it is taking ages
[17:29:50] <moorbo> just because they have that particular solution, doesn't mean they have others.
[17:30:07] <moorbo> they also redesigned the machine twice since I started following it
[17:30:36] <moorbo> but instead of criticising here in irc
[17:30:41] <moorbo> send'em an email and ask
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[17:37:15] <archivist> not me that wants one though, as linuxcnc and homebrew hardware got me a 5 axis machine
[17:38:39] <moorbo> its you with the questions though.
[17:38:41] <moorbo> but thats great.
[17:38:52] <moorbo> maybe I'll build one one of these days
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[17:49:56] <somenewguy> does anyone konw of stepper control hardware that operates over serial instead of parallel?
[17:52:18] <archivist> there was a PIC based system about 8-10 years ago
[17:53:19] <Tom_itx> flashcutcnc is usb
[17:53:39] <Tom_itx> my old one was serial
[17:53:57] <Tom_itx> it is now retired on the shelf
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[18:00:14] <archivist> it was this http://www.jrkerr.com/pscmc.html
[18:03:19] <archivist> somenewguy, ^^
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[18:15:54] <moorbo> any of you use filtering
[18:15:59] <moorbo> like air filtering
[18:16:14] <moorbo> or fume hoods
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[18:23:26] <MattyMatt> somenewguy, you could use an arduino for that, if you add a max232 adaptor to give rs232 levels, and run a 3d printer firmware etc
[18:39:34] <Rab> Tom_itx, I have a serial FlashCut controller too. A friend and I tried to reverse-engineer the protocol a while back. It's pretty low-level; seems to be sending raw discrete step/dir signal commands, maybe just depending on the controller to do real-time scheduling.
[18:41:14] <Rab> We were hoping to write a driver for LinuxCNC, but decided just to control the drivers directly.
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[18:47:48] <Rab> somenewguy, I think hardware RS232 ports are considered too slow; and emulated ports like USB-serial bridges aren't realtime.
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[18:53:03] <somenewguy> sorry I got distracted
[18:53:17] <somenewguy> it is a real hardware serial port, I am just trying to guess what hardware might be on the other end of it
[18:53:42] <somenewguy> clarify: I am running a desktop machine that is currently using a real RS-232 port and wonder what the hardware might be
[18:53:53] <Rab> How old is the machine?
[18:54:04] <somenewguy> a few years
[18:54:12] <somenewguy> chinese/california company
[18:54:16] <somenewguy> its a pick and place
[18:55:02] <somenewguy> I was hoping to find some linuxcnc pick and place specific tools, but I have struck out
[18:55:19] <somenewguy> the software it shipped with is pretty mediocore, and documention does not exist
[18:55:30] <somenewguy> it just says "use it correctly" and thier customer service is a joke
[18:55:54] <somenewguy> also they inverted Z travel sign convention and it all just bugs me
[18:56:16] <somenewguy> but since this is for work, I can't go spend 2 weeks writing my on AXIS gui so the less talented folks at work can use it
[18:56:33] <somenewguy> 2 weeks = 2 months really with my skills lol
[18:56:46] <somenewguy> does anyone konw of a pick and place software suite?
[18:56:54] <Rab> Could be FlashCut, they've done OEM stuff. You can find the manual for the serial-driven 401A controller here: http://www.flashcutcnc.com/sites/default/files/Signal_Generator_Hardware_Guide.pdf
[18:57:49] <Rab> somenewguy, there's this: https://github.com/hzeller/rpt2pnp
[18:57:56] <somenewguy> rab, thanks for that, I'm gonna open the control box on monday
[18:59:17] <somenewguy> I got to learn all about VBA scripts to get PADs to spit out a csv that the stupid software could handle i nteh first place
[18:59:23] <somenewguy> the undocumented software of course
[18:59:37] <somenewguy> tehre are still two mystery fields that the vendor can't tell me what they are actually for
[19:02:06] <somenewguy> my favorite is the "import board" tool, which imports a board
[19:02:16] <somenewguy> they don't tell you what it imports or what it does with it, or what format it wants
[19:02:39] <somenewguy> so far I THINK it takes some sort of copper pour image and overlays it on the screen, based on snapshots in the manual
[19:02:42] <somenewguy> but I can't get it to do it
[19:03:02] <archivist> gerber file?
[19:03:04] <somenewguy> AND it wouldn't matter if I could ,becasue the screen is static and does not move as the tool head moves, so if you have the board in front of you it only tells you if its upside down or not
[19:03:41] <somenewguy> I think thats what it expects, i dunno how many types of gerber tehre are
[19:04:00] <somenewguy> IT is giving me a full copy of PADs next week so I don't need to bug the EE to keep trying to export thigns for me
[19:04:20] <somenewguy> OH and we had to quarentine the machine because the software set off every firewall alarm posible, so I move files around via sneaker net
[19:04:37] <somenewguy> I think you can see why I want to convert it to linuxcnc
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[19:07:09] <Cromaglious_> bbiab
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[19:13:37] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/z/dSYAAOSwNSxU0gIE/$_20.JPG
[19:13:44] <zeeshan|2> starting from the bottom right
[19:13:58] <zeeshan|2> er 40 , er16, er40, er32 er32 ?
[19:15:13] <PetefromTn_> http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4882936036.html
[19:15:24] <Crom_> looks like it
[19:16:53] <zeeshan|2> okay second row: er25/20, some large shell mill holder, no idea, no idea, no idea , er25/20
[19:16:56] <zeeshan|2> what are the no ideas? :)
[19:17:37] <Crom_> looks like there is a er11 or mt1 3rd from bottom, 3rd from left
[19:18:08] <zeeshan|2> guy wants 10$ a tool
[19:18:11] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of buyin em all
[19:18:18] <zeeshan|2> just that drill chuck is worth that
[19:18:23] <zeeshan|2> it looks like
[19:18:27] <zeeshan|2> one of them is a milling chuck too
[19:19:00] <Crom_> true $230 for all that is a deal!
[19:20:08] <Crom_> is he selling collets as well?
[19:20:30] <Crom_> I think that 3rd row is a line of end mill holders
[19:20:47] <PetefromTn_> see if you can get those nice racks too..
[19:21:57] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: he wants 100 bux for all the racks
[19:21:59] <zeeshan|2> i dunno if its worth it
[19:22:03] <zeeshan|2> i have a tool box where they can sit
[19:22:06] <zeeshan|2> w/ dividers
[19:22:20] <zeeshan|2> i hate keeping my tools o utside where they can collect dust
[19:22:36] <Crom_> hmmm $25 a rack...
[19:22:36] <PetefromTn_> it's up to you I guess
[19:22:42] <PetefromTn_> I made my own tool rack
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[19:22:48] <zeeshan|2> you keep yorus outside ?
[19:22:56] <PetefromTn_> and it is nice to not have them slidng around etc.
[19:23:06] <zeeshan|2> well i have palstic dividers
[19:23:11] <zeeshan|2> that i can fit in the tool box drawers
[19:23:12] <PetefromTn_> actually it is UNDER the granite surface plate table I have
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[19:24:10] <PetefromTn_> I have seen some guys take a big toolbox drawer and make a tool rack in it. but it would have to be a very large heavy duty drawer..
[19:24:33] <zeeshan|2> see i have 2 ideas for my mill
[19:24:43] <PetefromTn_> every shop I have worked in kept their toolholders in racks just like that...
[19:24:45] <zeeshan|2> i need to put the monitor/keyboard/mouse on a rolling cabinet
[19:24:56] <zeeshan|2> im thinking i should just make a rolling cabinet out of wood
[19:25:02] <zeeshan|2> and just mount these tool holders under it
[19:25:13] <zeeshan|2> or buy a heavy duty tool box roller
[19:25:19] <zeeshan|2> and put the tools inside
[19:25:28] <PetefromTn_> wood is a good media for toolholder storage
[19:26:02] <PetefromTn_> it will not scratch your tapers but it does absorb coolant and oils if not treated..
[19:26:11] <zeeshan|2> yes
[19:26:16] <zeeshan|2> and gives your garage a lovely machine shop smell
[19:26:17] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[19:26:27] <Crom_> http://www.neowin.net/news/a-camera-flash-will-make-the-raspberry-pi-2-freeze-and-reboot
[19:26:35] <PetefromTn_> mine is made from some prefinished furniture grade plywood...
[19:26:56] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: you did wood working
[19:26:57] <PetefromTn_> and if it ever wears out I will just make more.
[19:27:02] <zeeshan|2> know of a easy to make design
[19:27:09] <zeeshan|2> i need a table top for the comp
[19:27:11] <zeeshan|2> and tool storage under it
[19:27:21] <zeeshan|2> no need for doors
[19:27:24] <zeeshan|2> completely open concept
[19:27:52] <PetefromTn_> why don't you want a built in pendant for the machine?
[19:28:11] <zeeshan|2> maybe one day
[19:28:15] <zeeshan|2> but idont see me using one
[19:28:16] <zeeshan|2> keyboard is ok
[19:28:27] <PetefromTn_> if I could afford it I would buy a bunch of those HAAS tool racks they put on the sides of thier machines..
[19:28:40] <zeeshan|2> those are haas tool racks ?
[19:28:55] <PetefromTn_> no not those in your picture
[19:29:28] <PetefromTn_> http://www.magnitude-engineering.com/images/Cat-40-Tool-Storage.jpg
[19:29:58] <PetefromTn_> you can get those and attach them to the side of the enclosure on my machine... several would be enough for most all of the tools I would need.
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[19:30:23] <zeeshan|2> ah
[19:30:54] <PetefromTn_> http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mx5OvPmb7R2AAV2GhhWSq6w.jpg something like this would be nice as well.
[19:31:10] <zeeshan|2> ooo i like that
[19:31:16] <zeeshan|2> i can put those tool racks at an angle
[19:31:21] <PetefromTn_> http://carbide3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/toolholders.jpg
[19:31:22] <zeeshan|2> below 2 plywood sheets
[19:31:29] <PetefromTn_> that is what the new HAAS racks look like
[19:31:29] <zeeshan|2> and use 2x4's for the legs
[19:31:42] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[19:32:00] <zeeshan|2> that just looks like w/ a piece of wood w/ holes in it!
[19:32:06] <PetefromTn_> nothing wrong with a well made woodern cabinet for toolholders
[19:32:08] <zeeshan|2> and those cord protector plastic chups
[19:32:43] <PetefromTn_> well I gotta get back to makin' parts man. good luck with your design.
[19:32:47] <zeeshan|2> thank u
[19:32:51] <PetefromTn_> sure
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[21:21:21] <fluffybitchx> GRRRRR! I got ripped off on name-brand wire!
[21:22:23] <fluffybitchx> I bought some 12/3 soow from the local hardware store. they changed brands. they used to give you coleman royal, which was really nice. this time they gave me southwire (garbage) SJTOOW.
[21:22:51] <fluffybitchx> it's crap. the outer jacket is paper thin, and, as you might guess from the T, the inner insulation is junk thermoplastic, not proper S-rated insulation.
[21:23:32] <fluffybitchx> if I wanted junk extension cord wire, I'd buy a 50ft extension cord for $20, not pay $1.30/ft for soow.
[21:25:22] <fluffybitchx> the fact that southwire makes such a product makes me like them even less than I did before.
[21:28:32] <fluffybitchx> I will be having a little talk with them next time I'm there about how when a customer asks for SOOW, you cut them a piece of SOOW, not pocket half the money and give them SJTOOW instead.
[21:29:40] <renesis> its raining you shouldnt be doing electrical stuff
[21:29:57] <renesis> should stay home, order pizza
[21:30:12] * fluffybitchx doesn't like pizza
[21:30:17] <fluffybitchx> and most of my house doesn't rain indoors
[21:30:47] <renesis> whats about cookies?
[21:30:55] <XXCoder> fluffybitchx: jeez! what a ripoff
[21:31:29] <renesis> http://www.southwire.com/products/ViperRubberTypeSOOWBlack.htm
[21:31:29] <fluffybitchx> I spent $1.30/ft instead of $0.30/ft because I wanted the good stuff. heh.
[21:31:35] <renesis> so you did or didnt get that?
[21:32:01] <fluffybitchx> I got "Southwire Seoprene SJTOOW"
[21:32:09] <XXCoder> wonder if they acciently swapped with some other customer, cheaper one
[21:32:29] <syyl> "give him the crappy stuff!"
[21:32:31] <renesis> seoprene sounds squishy
[21:32:47] <fluffybitchx> XXCoder: they probably just ordered something cheap out of the catalog.
[21:32:58] <fluffybitchx> they're not a huge store, and only have a roll or two of any wire at a time...
[21:32:58] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:33:09] <fluffybitchx> someone said "hey, this stuff is half the price!".
[21:33:17] <renesis> heh
[21:33:22] <renesis> same picture!
[21:33:25] <XXCoder> plan to return it?
[21:33:27] <renesis> must be the same!
[21:34:05] <renesis> wow half the voltage and 20C less
[21:34:07] <renesis> messed up
[21:34:59] <fluffybitchx> yep
[21:35:08] <fluffybitchx> (yep, messed up. no, don't plan to return it.)
[21:35:23] <fluffybitchx> I only bought three feet...
[21:35:34] <XXCoder> ah so bunch miles not worth it I guess
[21:35:42] <fluffybitchx> yep
[21:36:07] <XXCoder> can always complain via phone!
[21:36:13] <fluffybitchx> I didn't realize it was crap because the outer jacket is the same material as real soow... didn't see what the inner conductors were until I stripped it to use it.
[21:36:14] <XXCoder> basically free
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[21:36:44] <XXCoder> melt their phone with vent. well friendly usually has better result
[21:36:50] <fluffybitchx> I knew it was sjoow not soow looking at it, but I expected that (they don't stock soow in smaller sizes)... it's the T that pisses me off.
[21:38:41] <fluffybitchx> it's got the nice jacket over stiff extension cord grade inner wires.
[21:39:05] <XXCoder> so you need lot flex
[21:39:10] <XXCoder> so it dont break
[21:39:18] <PetefromTn_> so you are livid about buying something that costs $1.00 a foot and you only bought three feet?
[21:39:22] <fluffybitchx> well, for this, I don't. so I'm using it anyway. but I won't buy it in the future.
[21:39:49] <fluffybitchx> PetefromTn_: I'm unhappy that they substituted an inferior product. I'd be unhappy if I just got one foot too.
[21:40:10] <fluffybitchx> and it cost $1.29/ft. heh.
[21:40:29] <XXCoder> pete sometimes its not price but how business is conducted
[21:40:49] <XXCoder> I got angry recently when I found out my led lights for car only work when headlight is on
[21:40:58] <XXCoder> and it doesn't work when headlight is off. useless!
[21:41:56] <fluffybitchx> I guess I can add wire to the list of things I need to buy online...
[21:42:20] <fluffybitchx> oh, I went by radio shack today. the local store is staying open until march, the other store in the same town is closing.
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[21:43:33] <fluffybitchx> I'll need to head down there and see if they're doing closeouts...
[21:44:00] <CaptHindsight> what do they have there worth buying?
[21:44:10] <XXCoder> phones. lots phones
[21:44:17] <XXCoder> make a phone array ;)
[21:44:25] <CaptHindsight> unlocked phones?
[21:44:50] <fluffybitchx> they still have parts drawers... although every year there's been less in them.
[21:45:05] <XXCoder> fluffybitchx: they havent refilled it for last 10 years probably lol
[21:45:25] <XXCoder> I have seen literal dust on em
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[21:47:02] <fluffybitchx> better than figurative dust? :P
[21:47:18] <XXCoder> that was there too LOL
[21:48:15] <fluffybitchx> fortunately, for this application, the wire isn't critical. I'm just making a box with a switch and an outlet, as a temporary power switch. needed one a few times, finally building one.
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[21:48:27] <XXCoder> nice
[21:48:56] <XXCoder> I'm finally doing something about my inability to do anything
[21:49:02] <XXCoder> lets see how successfl it is
[21:49:24] * fluffybitchx wonders how you something about that, other than simply doing things
[21:50:19] <XXCoder> unofrtunately private. just saying I hope to finally solve it after decades
[21:50:23] <fluffybitchx> oh, and... wtf? I bought some ginger snaps at costco. they have a warning on them that they contain chemicals known to cause cancer or birth defects.
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[21:51:00] <PetefromTn_> http://gizmodo.com/watch-live-as-spacex-attempts-to-land-a-rocket-on-a-dro-1684493822 interesting...
[21:53:11] <fluffybitchx> I kid you not. I bought a tub of all natural ginger snaps. it says "This product may contain a chemical known to the state of california to cause cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm."
[21:53:43] <XXCoder> california
[21:58:50] <fluffybitchx> according to random google pages, this means they use ginger bought from countries where heavy metal contamination of the soil is an issue.
[21:59:05] <XXCoder> oh thats fun
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[22:07:51] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:08:44] <fluffybitchx> PetefromTn_: "We're sorry, but this video is unavailable on this device.'
[22:12:18] <fluffybitchx> and they use intentionally obfuscated javascript, so it'd be a bitch to even see why it's broken.
[22:12:44] * fluffybitchx adds gizmondo to the list of asshole companies not to do business with
[22:14:59] <fluffybitchx> being broken is one thing. making it intentionally impossible to figure out why is like zeeshan|2's ground-off chip labels, and a good sign you shouldn't do business with someone.
[22:15:16] <XXCoder> fluffybitchx: there is nice unobfuscator sites
[22:15:24] <XXCoder> leaves variable names sucky though
[22:15:33] <zeeshan|2> man
[22:15:46] <XXCoder> kraken has awaken!!
[22:15:48] <zeeshan|2> this stupid problem has gotten my old ee electronics books
[22:15:56] <zeeshan|2> *me reading
[22:16:07] <zeeshan|2> i thought i'd never open this shit again
[22:16:07] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:16:27] <XXCoder> heh
[22:16:40] <fluffybitchx> XXCoder: I'm not going to waste my time trying to make their site work, when it'll probably be all over the internet.
[22:16:49] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:17:01] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: hi!
[22:17:19] <_methods> the spacex site?
[22:17:49] <fluffybitchx> spacex's site claims to have video, but I see no sign of video at all.
[22:18:22] <zeeshan|2> is that 37 million people
[22:18:24] <zeeshan|2> watching this live stream?
[22:18:49] <fluffybitchx> is what?
[22:18:54] <zeeshan|2> on the ustream
[22:19:39] <fluffybitchx> ustream tells me nothing other than the message I pasted above, so...
[22:19:43] <_methods> its on livestream
[22:19:46] <zeeshan|2> sorry fluffybitchx :-)
[22:20:15] <_methods> in 29min
[22:20:38] <zeeshan|2> says 6:10 pm
[22:20:51] <_methods> live in 29:10
[22:21:01] <zeeshan|2> huh
[22:21:05] <zeeshan|2> its already liv eon the bottom of the page
[22:21:23] <zeeshan|2> maybe im on the wrong page
[22:21:23] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:21:29] <fluffybitchx> I really wish the html5 people had grown a spine and mandated separation of content and presentation.
[22:21:31] <zeeshan|2> yeahe went
[22:21:34] <zeeshan|2> t-48min
[22:21:47] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: its morons like me
[22:21:51] <zeeshan|2> who dont optimize pages
[22:21:54] <zeeshan|2> and run 2390923182309 images
[22:21:59] <zeeshan|2> noobs :)
[22:22:19] <fluffybitchx> no, it's morons like big multi-billion dollar media outlets.
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[22:27:34] <fluffybitchx> they don't want you to watch videos in a player of your choice... they want you to watch them in their player only. they don't want them in your mobile browser, because then they can't make you download a data-slurping app. etc.
[22:28:38] <fluffybitchx> roughly every single problem with web video is due to people trying to screw their customers.
[22:31:22] <fluffybitchx> the w3c was thinking of preventing this, by mandating the use of open codecs, etc... but "industry partners" provided enough money to make them change their mind.
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[22:43:01] <cncjerry> anyone home?
[22:43:13] <fluffybitchx> no
[22:43:41] <zeeshan|2> im watching this movie "blackhat"
[22:43:43] <cncjerry> I have a pressing problem. I lost my config file for catia. I can't get G2 arcs to work. I'm sure it is a config problem either on linuxcnc or catia, most likely
[22:43:53] <zeeshan|2> the guy goes cat somefile
[22:43:56] <zeeshan|2> looks at some hex code
[22:44:03] <cncjerry> linuxcnc barfs when I load code.
[22:44:08] <zeeshan|2> and deduces whats going on in 5 seconds lol
[22:44:35] <zeeshan|2> cncjerry: set your post processor to output quadrant mode
[22:44:36] <fluffybitchx> cat doesn't show hex. od shows hex. :P
[22:44:41] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: exactly
[22:44:41] <zeeshan|2> LOL
[22:45:28] <fluffybitchx> as to what he can make of it, that depends on how familiar he is with whatever it's trying to show. there was a time I could read dns packets...
[22:45:31] <XXCoder> cncjerry: try recover deleted file?
[22:45:45] <XXCoder> or was it worse like dead disk
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[22:46:23] <cradek> cncjerry: by "barfs" do you mean it gives an error, and if so, what does the error say?
[22:46:45] <cncjerry> what is quadrant mode? I have these options: IJK absolute center coordinates; IJK distance start to center; IJK distance center to start; IJK unsigned center to start
[22:47:00] <cncjerry> it worked for years, tried all options, I think.
[22:47:32] <cncjerry> dead disk, lost 4 drives on two computers in a period of three weeks. sounds like an algebra problem
[22:47:58] <XXCoder> oh that sucks. there is ways to get it anyway but more money
[22:48:15] <cncjerry> about the only thing I couldn't get off the disk before it went completely were those files
[22:48:29] <cradek> here is our arc documentation: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G2-G3-Arc
[22:48:47] <cncjerry> the error I get is along the lines of the end point and start point aren't on the arc
[22:48:51] <cradek> you will have to compare with catia documentation - I can't tell enough from those options to guess which one will make it generate compatible code
[22:49:15] <cncjerry> this is a killer in that I don't remember making many changes to get it to work.
[22:49:16] <fluffybitchx> "the end point and start point aren't on the arc" is much, much more useful a description than "barfs".
[22:49:39] <cradek> I'd still need the full actual error message to give more specific help
[22:49:46] <cradek> those arc errors are VERY verbose and specific
[22:49:56] <cncjerry> considering that almost all g2/g3 errors are endpoint/startpoint, I think barfs is about right.
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[22:50:32] <cncjerry> it is downstairs on the machine, can't copy it, have broken arm, hard to type as it is.
[22:50:55] <cncjerry> are there any linuxcnc config options other than g90.1, g91.1 that would impact arcs?
[22:50:55] <cradek> guess we'll just sit here in the dark then
[22:50:58] <fluffybitchx> bah! livestream says I need to install flash.
[22:51:20] <cradek> nope, those are it
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[22:52:14] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: ive had that error before
[22:52:23] <zeeshan|2> linuxcnc in my exp doesnt like anything but quadrant mode
[22:52:31] * fluffybitchx really wishes flash would hurry up and die
[22:53:28] <zeeshan|2> oh it could be cause im using 91.1
[22:54:35] <zeeshan|2> nice linuxcnc has full circle mode too
[22:54:56] <PetefromTn_> 15:50 to launch
[22:54:57] <cncjerry> radius to end of arc differs from radius to start. start = x1.1550, y1.7880, center= (1.1550,y2.1820),end =(x0.7610,Y1.3940), r1=0.3940, r2=0.8810 abs_err=0.487, rel_err=55.2786%
[22:55:39] <cradek> ok, the radii are wildly different, so your generation mode is wrong, it's not a tolerance problem
[22:56:01] <cradek> which post option are you using and which g90.1/g91.1 mode are you in?
[22:56:16] <cradek> you can probably use either of g90.1/g91.1 but you have to match it
[22:56:23] <cncjerry> I am in default.
[22:57:08] <cncjerry> the g3 generating this is g3 x.761 Y1.394 I0 J.394
[22:57:29] <zeeshan|2> cncjerry: try "IJK distance start to center"
[22:57:56] <anarchos22> I have a end mill that says 1/8" Dia. HS M2 L:0.680 10/13. What does the M2 mean, and what does the L measure? Neither the overall length, shoulder length or flute length meaures to .680
[22:58:04] <zeeshan|2> by quadrant mode i mean single quadrant circular interpolation mode
[22:58:12] <zeeshan|2> so you define start , center
[22:58:17] <zeeshan|2> in terms of each quadrant
[22:58:46] <zeeshan|2> anarchos22: m2 tool steel
[22:59:48] <cncjerry> distance start to center generates g3 x.761 Y1.394 I0 J-.394
[22:59:59] <zeeshan|2> try that code
[23:00:14] <anarchos22> ah, that makes sense. I think i figured out that 10/13 is the date of mfg, on the package is says "Made in Korea 10/13"
[23:01:24] <fluffybitchx> grrr, and livestreamer seems to intentionally break download tools.
[23:01:37] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: 9 min 3 left
[23:01:40] <zeeshan|2> hurry!
[23:02:26] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[23:02:57] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[23:04:10] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/z/dSYAAOSwNSxU0gIE/$_20.JPG
[23:04:18] <zeeshan|2> that does look like a milling chuck right??
[23:04:18] <XXCoder> collets
[23:04:19] <zeeshan|2> in the back
[23:04:42] <cncjerry> I ran that code and the error is the same but the delta is now only .001"
[23:04:58] <zeeshan|2> cncjerry: getting closer :)
[23:05:14] <cncjerry> so that must be the correct option but my code or linuxcnc is not rounding to the correct tolerance.
[23:05:23] <zeeshan|2> likely your code
[23:05:33] <zeeshan|2> there is a tolerance option in the post processor
[23:05:35] <zeeshan|2> its usually the first menu
[23:05:37] <PetefromTn_> T minus 5 minutes
[23:05:37] <cncjerry> yes, it is my code as this worked before.
[23:05:48] <cradek> by delta do you mean the difference between r1= and r2= ?
[23:06:04] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: theyre saying they might no launch
[23:06:05] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[23:06:27] <PetefromTn_> honestly I can't hear it while the machine is running... That sucks
[23:06:41] <zeeshan|2> something wrong with radar
[23:07:13] <cncjerry> this is just a rounded corner. what should the generated code look like as I think the x is off?
[23:07:14] <PetefromTn_> We don't need to STEENKING RADAR!!
[23:08:06] <fluffybitchx> grrrr, they didn't just skimp on the insulation... this #12 wire is a loose fit in a blue terminal.
[23:08:12] <zeeshan|2> misgo!
[23:08:13] <zeeshan|2> abort
[23:08:28] <zeeshan|2> they aborted
[23:08:50] <zeeshan|2> lol they guy went "whoa whoa whooo. abort!!"
[23:09:25] <_methods> live in 29:10lame
[23:09:27] <PetefromTn_> LIGHT THIS CANDLE!!!!
[23:09:31] <zeeshan|2> no
[23:09:37] <zeeshan|2> they missed the window
[23:09:40] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: link?
[23:09:40] <_methods> yeah
[23:09:41] <zeeshan|2> they gotta launch another time
[23:09:45] <_methods> sux
[23:09:54] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: http://gizmodo.com/watch-live-as-spacex-attempts-to-land-a-rocket-on-a-dro-1684493822
[23:10:26] <zeeshan|2> what a waste of fuel
[23:10:26] <zeeshan|2> :P
[23:10:36] <cncjerry> one of my clients is ULA. interesting comments from them on this topic.
[23:10:39] -!- syyl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[23:10:49] <cncjerry> United Launch Alliance
[23:11:41] <zeeshan|2> that woulda been bad
[23:11:45] <PetefromTn_> damn that sucks I was looking forward to seeing it fly...
[23:11:48] <zeeshan|2> if they lauch w/ that range track issue
[23:11:54] <zeeshan|2> they coulda lost control of the rocket lol
[23:12:08] <_methods> i just want to see the landing lol
[23:12:09] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if amc made their range tracker
[23:12:15] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[23:12:18] <zeeshan|2> it fried on power applied
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[23:13:01] <_methods> did they have you wire it up lol
[23:13:05] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[23:13:15] <zeeshan|2> so far my wiring is ok!! :P
[23:13:23] <PetefromTn_> OUCH
[23:13:36] <_methods> i keed i keed
[23:13:44] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[23:13:55] <cncjerry> ************** code loaded with that DSTC and number format 3.5 instead of 3.3. Must be a rounding problem somewhere. Thanks off to cut.
[23:16:36] <cradek> yay!
[23:17:14] <zeeshan|2> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oIncS6tq9Oc/VNe95dOMNOI/AAAAAAADkag/zhh9zxrNlnA/s1600/1374273_208491535998601_971062057_n.jpg
[23:17:16] <zeeshan|2> interesting photo
[23:17:48] <_methods> flux capacitor failed
[23:18:06] <PetefromTn_> it shat itself
[23:19:09] <_methods> looks like one of those cigars that blow up in daffy ducks face
[23:19:23] <fluffybitchx> why are ground screws made with heads that are impossible to get ANY screwdriver to stick in?
[23:19:44] <XXCoder> fluffybitchx: chinese
[23:19:48] <fluffybitchx> boiler explosions are bad.
[23:19:48] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 any luck or are you waiting to hear from the ole phart at the motor shop?
[23:20:00] <zeeshan|2> will take to shop tomo
[23:20:03] <fluffybitchx> XXCoder: no, it's intentional... this one has a hex head too, but it's cut at a 45 degree angle!
[23:20:27] <XXCoder> wtf how do you even insert hex tool
[23:20:37] <XXCoder> or do you mean 45 degree camfer
[23:20:38] <fluffybitchx> external hex
[23:21:12] <fluffybitchx> but cut like / \ rather than | | like a bolt. so a nutdriver instantly jumps off, just like a screwdriver instantly jumps out of the inside.
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[23:22:15] <XXCoder> wow
[23:22:41] <XXCoder> must be specoal tool
[23:22:58] <PetefromTn_> http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4883099374.html CNC Wood lathe anyone?
[23:23:41] <XXCoder> expensive
[23:24:08] <XXCoder> but yeah wood lathe could be useful of you need LOT lathed wood parts
[23:24:17] <XXCoder> aka long dilios lol
[23:24:40] <XXCoder> oh motor included
[23:24:42] <PetefromTn_> http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1758-Digital-Readout/dp/B0019CGYLM
[23:25:09] <XXCoder> one at harbor isnt even $100, but no motor
[23:34:55] <fluffybitchx> most of the wooden dildos I've seen for sale look like they need 5-axis machining, not just a lathe.
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[23:35:35] <LeelooMinai> You have awaken the expert
[23:36:24] * fluffybitchx has never owned or used a wooden dildo
[23:36:53] <LeelooMinai> Too entry level probably:)
[23:39:00] <fluffybitchx> so, with combination slotted-phillips-square drive screws, while about 95% of the time they strip before you get them in, they do occasionally go in. therefor I propose everyone switch to slotted-phillips-square-torx-hex heads, to make sure every single one strips without fail.
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[23:41:55] <fluffybitchx> yay, instant-power-switch works.
[23:42:10] <fluffybitchx> (it had better, consisting of a box with a switch and an outlet in it... not much to go wrong)
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[23:44:39] <roycroft> i find that the combination slotted-phillips-robertson drive screws work best with a properly fitted slotted srewdriver, and i have no problem with them when i use one, but i prefer socket head/button head screws/bolts for most things
[23:44:58] <roycroft> i hate the look of the combination drive screws, which is reason enough for me to avoid them
[23:46:26] <LeelooMinai> I used to live in Europe and mostly there are slotted/philips screws there. But I like the robertson/square ones that are used here (Canada/US)
[23:46:28] <fluffybitchx> I find that once you cut a square out of a phillips, phillips just strips instantly.
[23:46:43] <fluffybitchx> not enough metal left.
[23:46:50] <roycroft> right
[23:46:59] <LeelooMinai> They wre designed to strip, no?
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[23:47:07] <roycroft> which is why i prefer a slotted screwdriver when i'm forced to use those combination screws
[23:47:11] <fluffybitchx> slotted doesn't self-center and can't be used with power tools
[23:47:43] <roycroft> might i suggest then that you not use the combination drive screws with power tools?
[23:48:23] <LeelooMinai> I think there's a reason why, for example, desck screws are Robertson:)
[23:48:31] <LeelooMinai> deck*
[23:48:58] <roycroft> deck screws, especially the ceramic coated ones, are increasingly coming in torx drive, with a torx bit included in each box of screws
[23:49:01] <fluffybitchx> I use torx deck screws.
[23:49:22] <LeelooMinai> A, ok, torx is nice too, but more "exotic" still
[23:49:33] <roycroft> which is why they come with a bit in every box
[23:49:39] <fluffybitchx> dunno, I think here they're more common than square now.
[23:49:52] <roycroft> robertson never caught on in the states like it did in canadia
[23:49:57] <LeelooMinai> NOt here in Canada afaik
[23:50:01] <roycroft> probably because they were invented there
[23:50:23] <fluffybitchx> probably because of restrictive licensing, which is why torx took an extra 25 years to catch on.
[23:50:26] <roycroft> the only trade where they were at all popular in the states was electrical
[23:50:38] <LeelooMinai> Did not take a genius to "invent" those - just make the hole square:)
[23:52:03] <roycroft> most patentable inventions do not take genius
[23:52:05] <LeelooMinai> The only thought I can see went into the Philips one - to make them annoying.
[23:52:32] <roycroft> i have no trouble with phillips screws
[23:52:42] <roycroft> as long as the driver is not worn out they work perfectly well
[23:53:01] <fluffybitchx> as long as it's the right driver. there's three common types here....
[23:53:07] <roycroft> if you're using a cheap screwgun bit that's driven 500 ss screws it's not going to work very well
[23:53:22] <roycroft> sure
[23:53:40] <fluffybitchx> I use torx now for all my wood screws, and love it.
[23:53:41] <roycroft> and there multiple types of slotted screw slot profiles
[23:53:42] <LeelooMinai> The problems begin when the scenerio in which they are not used is not perfect - that is in 90% cases probably:)
[23:53:44] <roycroft> and multiple torx
[23:53:48] <roycroft> and multiple robertson
[23:54:16] <roycroft> i use different types, depending on application and finish
[23:54:30] <fluffybitchx> there's only two torx. torx and torx plus. torx plus was "invented" recently when the patent on torx ran out, and like all technologies encumbered by patents, it's prevented its adoption.
[23:54:39] <roycroft> i really like the look of slotted brass round head screws for fastening control panels and other types of covers
[23:55:03] <fluffybitchx> torx plus exists only so they have something to license, once they couldn't license torx...
[23:55:19] <fluffybitchx> I hate slotted screws. I never use them unless I have to.
[23:55:21] <roycroft> i'll usually run a zps phillips pan head screw in first with a screw gun, then back it out and replace it with a brass screw that i hand install, and align the slot horizontally
[23:55:30] <roycroft> it makes for a nice finished look
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[23:55:40] <fluffybitchx> phillips makes for a nicer finished look. :P
[23:55:40] <roycroft> but i'm not going to do that for something that's hidden
[23:55:53] <roycroft> that, i suppose, is a matter of taste
[23:55:55] <LeelooMinai> Slotted screws are not that great imho - they can easily get worn, especially the flat head kind.
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[23:56:09] <fluffybitchx> button head hex cap if you want to be really fancy.
[23:56:18] <roycroft> on machinery sure
[23:56:31] <roycroft> on wooden projects, i still like round head slotted brass
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[23:56:47] <fluffybitchx> phillips is round with smooth edges...
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[23:56:56] <roycroft> on machinery i use button head cap screws and socket head screws almost exclusively
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[23:57:27] <roycroft> if i ever have to remove a phillips drive screw on a piece of machinery i generally replace it with one of the above
[23:57:47] <LeelooMinai> Assuming you can even unscrew it:)
[23:58:01] <LeelooMinai> If it's old, it may be problematic
[23:58:02] <roycroft> that's not a problem
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[23:58:09] <fluffybitchx> we need a kickstarter open screw head project... :P
[23:58:30] <LeelooMinai> Probably all the geometric shapes are patentyed already
[23:58:51] <anarchos22> 3D shapes
[23:58:59] <roycroft> let's bring back clutch screws
[23:59:06] <anarchos22> buckball screws
[23:59:10] <anarchos22> bucky*
[23:59:15] <roycroft> i still have some clutch screwdrivers - i haven't used them in decades
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[23:59:36] <fluffybitchx> I only have one thing with clutch screws... and I've replaced most of them with phillips.
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[23:59:57] <roycroft> i think gm were the last company in the world to use them, and they abandoned them in the '70s or so