#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-02-07

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[00:00:25] <furrywolf> so if you only use 10 rolls/year of paper towels, industrial cleaning, etc...
[00:00:35] <furrywolf> that's not unreasonable. so 10 billion, not 10 trillion.
[00:00:52] <cpresser> i found a pdf which states 46rolls/year for germans
[00:01:36] <CaptHindsight> maybe the script was written 10,000,000,000 vs 10 trillion so they just said it wrong
[00:01:58] <furrywolf> I want a washlet. if I ever can afford my own house, I'm installing one.
[00:03:29] <furrywolf> (for those unfamiliar with them, japanese toilet seats with built-in water washing features)
[00:03:45] <CaptHindsight> japanese toilets
[00:04:18] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/oqX0gme.gifv
[00:04:21] <zeeshan|2> how did this guy survive?
[00:04:26] <CaptHindsight> sprayers, wipers, buffers...... sprayers anyway
[00:04:48] <furrywolf> generally just sprayers. heh.
[00:05:22] <zeeshan|2> does this make any sense ? 7.5 N*m = 1069 oz
[00:05:27] <CaptHindsight> he looks like a rag doll
[00:05:28] <zeeshan|2> my steppers on my lathe are bigger than this Z motor
[00:05:37] <zeeshan|2> physically theyre like 1/4 the size
[00:05:42] <zeeshan|2> and 1/4 the weight
[00:08:44] <furrywolf> how are they both bigger and 1/4 the size?
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[00:08:57] <zeeshan|2> bigger as in more power powerful
[00:09:00] <zeeshan|2> 1200 oz-in apparently.
[00:09:27] <furrywolf> torque != power.
[00:09:38] <zeeshan|2> yea yea
[00:09:38] <zeeshan|2> :P
[00:10:13] <furrywolf> steppers only make their full torque when stationary, and it drops off quickly with rpm. servos keep making torque until much higher rpms.
[00:10:49] <CaptHindsight> mozmck Linux Mint Debian Edition 2, aka. "Betsy." will be a rolling release
[00:10:50] <zeeshan|2> finding a replacement motor
[00:10:51] <zeeshan|2> is a pain in the butt
[00:11:19] -!- AR__ [AR__!~AR@24.238.81.234.res-cmts.sth2.ptd.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:12:15] * furrywolf still doesn't know if it's the motor or the drive or the wiring
[00:12:32] <zeeshan|2> realistically lets think about the wiring
[00:12:42] <zeeshan|2> what can be wrong?
[00:13:02] <zeeshan|2> l2 powers a 110vac vfd
[00:13:11] <zeeshan|2> and also powers one leg of 2 of a 240vac vfd.
[00:13:14] <zeeshan|2> and also the z drive
[00:13:26] <zeeshan|2> all 3 of these things are on seperate contactors
[00:14:00] <furrywolf> wiring to motor too... and maybe control wiring, but I doubt it, since it should be sufficiently isolated.
[00:14:17] <zeeshan|2> short in tachometer?
[00:14:27] <furrywolf> you're positive the brake absolutely did not switch during the later tests?
[00:14:32] <zeeshan|2> yes
[00:14:33] <zeeshan|2> 100%
[00:14:37] <furrywolf> the tachometer generates power, not uses it, no?
[00:14:47] <zeeshan|2> it generates voltage yes
[00:14:49] -!- asdfasd has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[00:14:51] <zeeshan|2> but the thing is
[00:14:55] <zeeshan|2> if you look at th eblock diagram
[00:15:03] <furrywolf> so if it's shorted, it'd just read not turning, not melt things...
[00:15:04] <zeeshan|2> tehres a crap load of high resistance resistors in series
[00:15:28] <zeeshan|2> ok
[00:16:26] <furrywolf> it could be nothing has failed, but there's some weird interaction between that drive, your motor, and your controls... like the the drive has a design issue where it fails on powerup of the motor is a certain resistance or some control signal is active...
[00:18:14] <CaptHindsight> that drive also lets you float or isolate the grounds
[00:18:52] <zeeshan|2> i have nothing better to do on a friday night
[00:18:53] <CaptHindsight> I'd have to dig into those docs but that can make power very exciting
[00:18:55] <zeeshan|2> than blow up another drive
[00:19:10] <zeeshan|2> i just want to have the best possible chance :-)
[00:19:20] <furrywolf> you can devise tests to try to find other problems...
[00:19:31] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: have the link to your wiring diagram?
[00:19:32] <zeeshan|2> like? :)
[00:19:34] <CaptHindsight> I lost it
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[00:20:02] <furrywolf> his wiring diagram is hard to read, and remember that there could well be wiring errors. heh.
[00:20:10] <zeeshan|2> capt: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0 ; https://www.dropbox.com/s/abmmue9j5bwostk/Master%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf?dl=0
[00:20:25] <zeeshan|2> hey!
[00:20:26] <zeeshan|2> its color coded
[00:20:41] <_methods> man machining in your garage with a beer is so much better than at work lol
[00:21:23] <CaptHindsight> those drives have two grounds COMMON (SIGNAL GND) and CHASSIS GND
[00:21:54] <zeeshan|2> yea
[00:21:59] <zeeshan|2> thesignal ground is isolated
[00:22:00] <zeeshan|2> and floating
[00:22:55] <zeeshan|2> its just a weird problem cause it worked so well :/
[00:22:57] <zeeshan|2> and now im plagued
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[00:23:04] <zeeshan|2> my wiring magically didnt change!
[00:23:28] <CaptHindsight> how many power cycles did it live through?
[00:23:33] <zeeshan|2> the first time?
[00:23:36] <zeeshan|2> like 40 +
[00:23:38] <zeeshan|2> the second time
[00:23:39] <zeeshan|2> 1
[00:23:50] <CaptHindsight> what does 40 times and 1 time mean?
[00:24:00] <zeeshan|2> 40 times till first failure
[00:24:09] <zeeshan|2> 1 power cycle between the first and second failure
[00:24:33] <furrywolf> it means something got worse. :)
[00:24:39] <CaptHindsight> 40 power cycles until the first drive died?
[00:24:43] <zeeshan|2> yea
[00:24:49] <zeeshan|2> thats estimating on the low side too
[00:25:10] <zeeshan|2> it went through 5 power cycles when i was programming the vfds
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[00:25:30] <zeeshan|2> you know..
[00:25:32] <zeeshan|2> the only thing i remember
[00:25:33] <furrywolf> I still don't know... working at first then stopping working makes me suspect the motor, because your wiring isn't likely to do that.
[00:25:34] <CaptHindsight> and now if you had 50 spares they would most likely all die when first powered up and motion attempted?
[00:25:36] <zeeshan|2> is programmign the spindle vfd
[00:25:39] <zeeshan|2> and these blow ups happen
[00:25:47] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: 09282390!~!!!!
[00:25:51] <zeeshan|2> i told you this before
[00:25:55] <zeeshan|2> the motors never move
[00:25:58] <zeeshan|2> its on power cycling
[00:26:03] <zeeshan|2> the motors are stationary before and after
[00:26:06] <zeeshan|2> withj brake enabled
[00:26:10] <zeeshan|2> nothing moves
[00:26:27] <CaptHindsight> how is the Brake wired to the drive?
[00:26:32] <zeeshan|2> its not
[00:26:34] <zeeshan|2> its independent
[00:26:47] <furrywolf> have a current picture of your wiring, rather than the partially connected one?
[00:26:55] <zeeshan|2> i can take one
[00:27:28] <furrywolf> I don't see how the spindle could affect the servos, unless you have a serious wiring or ground fault...
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[00:27:53] <dirty_d> are there any machining languages that compile to gcode that people actually use?
[00:28:18] <CaptHindsight> checking your own wiring is like proofreading, you often don't see your own mistakes
[00:29:13] <furrywolf> whnvr i reed mi own ritings it alyws leeks good!
[00:29:17] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:29:50] <zeeshan|2> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7410/16272562198_ddb3410cbd_h.jpg
[00:30:03] <zeeshan|2> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7314/16274356077_238b826d5e_h.jpg
[00:30:15] <zeeshan|2> damn my enclosure is empty now
[00:30:15] <zeeshan|2> ;-(
[00:30:52] <Tom_itx> mine is getting full
[00:31:36] <Tom_itx> woah.. that is empty!
[00:31:40] <zeeshan|2> ;-(
[00:31:44] <CaptHindsight> so your E-Stop opens and closes the 24V positive supply to the brake coils?
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[00:31:53] <zeeshan|2> no
[00:31:58] <zeeshan|2> if you look at io.pdf
[00:32:02] <zeeshan|2> at the very bottom
[00:32:07] <zeeshan|2> itll make you see what e-stop does
[00:32:21] <zeeshan|2> rather than trying to understand the mess of a master wiring diagram.pdf
[00:32:22] <zeeshan|2> :)
[00:32:41] <CaptHindsight> i don't have a copy of that
[00:32:51] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0
[00:34:15] <furrywolf> hrmm, that is the drive closest to the spindle vfd, if programming the spindle vfd is related in any way... but that seems unlikely.
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[00:34:46] <CaptHindsight> you might be generating some nasty spikes, even negative on the 24V + rail
[00:35:15] <zeeshan|2> how is it making its way to the servo drive?
[00:35:26] <zeeshan|2> remember
[00:35:30] <zeeshan|2> the brake state did not change
[00:35:32] <zeeshan|2> during the blow up
[00:35:32] <Tom_itx> the path of least resistance
[00:35:48] <furrywolf> that'd affect all the drives, not the z drive, repeatedly.
[00:35:55] <zeeshan|2> 3 times in a row
[00:35:56] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:36:42] <zeeshan|2> i really suspect the motor
[00:36:44] <furrywolf> other than programming the spindle vfd, did anything else change when the first one blew?
[00:36:46] <zeeshan|2> but i need to convince myself it is
[00:36:55] <zeeshan|2> yea
[00:36:56] <zeeshan|2> i added fans
[00:36:59] <zeeshan|2> well
[00:37:03] <zeeshan|2> i hooked up the neutral for the fans
[00:37:13] <zeeshan|2> but i did power cycle after that
[00:37:14] <zeeshan|2> and it was fine
[00:37:35] <zeeshan|2> the fans are being powered off l1
[00:38:25] <zeeshan|2> i wish i could somehow make the motor speak to me
[00:38:31] <zeeshan|2> "hey dumbass, im blown, can't you see!"
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[00:38:51] <Tom_itx> what's the winding resistance?
[00:38:56] <Tom_itx> and to case
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[00:39:07] <zeeshan|2> im gonna measure it again
[00:39:10] <zeeshan|2> with 2 diff multimeters
[00:39:19] <zeeshan|2> motor lead to case
[00:39:22] <zeeshan|2> and motor winding
[00:39:27] * LeelooMinai thinks that zeeshan|2 needs systematic plan involving at list DMM and maybe investing in cheap oscilloscope
[00:39:34] <zeeshan|2> and ill check both motor leads to casse
[00:39:35] <CaptHindsight> and with the motors in different positions
[00:39:35] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[00:39:44] <zeeshan|2> i already did that
[00:39:44] <zeeshan|2> :P
[00:40:06] <CaptHindsight> don't make me drive up there :)
[00:40:08] <Tom_itx> i ripped the commutator off my sherline by accident once and used that to figure all those wires out again
[00:40:13] <Tom_itx> works fine once again
[00:40:24] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: whats up so far?
[00:40:29] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: will you be happy wit ha video
[00:40:33] <zeeshan|2> of a bulb in series with the motor?
[00:40:34] <zeeshan|2> at 12v
[00:40:50] <CaptHindsight> then again is it warmer in Tronto than Chicago right now?
[00:40:56] <zeeshan|2> haha prolly not
[00:41:18] <anarchos2> hmm, i wonder how hard it would be to modify gmoccapy to add a button into the file selector window to run a "git pull" command, then refresh the window..
[00:41:24] <CaptHindsight> 25F right now
[00:41:52] <Tom_itx> supposed to be ~70 here tomorrow
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[00:42:03] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: hey?
[00:42:21] <CaptHindsight> only high 30's here :(
[00:42:37] <LeelooMinai> I made another baby step today and asembled the table and attached the spindle: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/16272619078/
[00:42:38] <Tom_itx> pretty decent here this evening
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[00:42:58] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: nice work
[00:43:04] <jdh> looks good!
[00:43:23] <LeelooMinai> One day it will actully do something... I hope
[00:43:24] <XXCoder> I wish I knew whats wrong with my willpower
[00:43:28] <CaptHindsight> Bad, bad panda!
[00:43:32] <Tom_itx> all i see is a damn panda bear
[00:43:33] <jdh> what are the displays on the front?
[00:43:49] <CaptHindsight> she broke flicker
[00:44:32] <XXCoder> flickr sucks.
[00:44:38] <LeelooMinai> jdh: Displays from calliper-like Chinese, damn, forgot what they are called - for distance measurement on all axis
[00:44:40] <Tom_itx> imagebin
[00:44:55] <jdh> DRO?
[00:45:14] <Tom_itx> jdh i got decent numbers from the pwm now
[00:45:25] <Tom_itx> seems to be getting better
[00:45:30] <jdh> with a c6>?
[00:45:33] <Tom_itx> yes
[00:45:41] <LeelooMinai> Yes, cheap ones, for now. Here you can see one from the side: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/14215648455/
[00:45:50] <Tom_itx> S10 - S5000 full 10v swing
[00:45:57] <LeelooMinai> Same "tech" as callipers basically, but longer
[00:46:02] <furrywolf> I hate flickr.
[00:46:13] * furrywolf gives up
[00:46:22] <jdh> Leeloo: just for fun or for feedback?
[00:46:23] <XXCoder> lee maybe your router can make parts for my router lol
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[00:46:57] <LeelooMinai> jdh: I want to use them for the initial "aligment" etc.
[00:46:59] <furrywolf> your pegboard is way too neat.
[00:46:59] <XXCoder> mines definitely small, with longest axis of 2 feet (working space approx 1'x1'x3"
[00:47:02] <furrywolf> and empty.
[00:47:13] <jdh> eerything is way too neat
[00:47:25] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: That's just after installing it... It's fuller now:)
[00:47:57] <LeelooMinai> btw, the pegboard is what was once cloths closet:)
[00:48:08] <jdh> clothes are overrated
[00:48:16] <zeeshan|2> hi xxcoder
[00:48:21] <LeelooMinai> Indeed - all I need is shorts and t-shirt and I can roll
[00:48:44] <LeelooMinai> And all that space reclaimed - a big win:)
[00:48:46] <furrywolf> I don't know why some societies care so much about clothes. if it's hot out, you don't need them!
[00:48:57] <XXCoder> yo
[00:49:17] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, some people are weird like that - care about appearences
[00:49:18] <PetefromTn_> link?
[00:49:26] <zeeshan|2> one meter says 0.9 ohm, the other says 0.6 ohm (i trust this meter more)
[00:49:31] <zeeshan|2> spec says 0.452 ohm @ 20C.
[00:49:35] <XXCoder> furry I guess it was invented for soceity - like cover unplanned horns :P
[00:49:40] <zeeshan|2> its like 3C in the garage
[00:49:57] <furrywolf> meeasuing what?
[00:50:03] <furrywolf> measuring
[00:50:10] <zeeshan|2> lead to lead of motor
[00:50:59] <zeeshan|2> someone come over
[00:51:02] <zeeshan|2> and inspect my wiring :P
[00:51:38] <furrywolf> http://lostcoastoutpost.com/media/cache/29/60/296068e65a857b7a0fcdd51a0083e783.jpg if you have a minivan, don't try driving on flooded roads. really.
[00:51:40] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan seems a bit lost in those wires and what not recently:p
[00:51:44] <zeeshan|2> rofl nice
[00:51:59] <zeeshan|2> that guy needs a snout
[00:52:09] <LeelooMinai> A raft would work better there
[00:52:25] <CaptHindsight> it's the size of a boat
[00:52:27] <furrywolf> or, if you are going to drive in the flooded water, know where your air intake is.
[00:52:45] <LeelooMinai> Maybe it's water cooled
[00:52:47] <zeeshan|2> and dont stall your car inthe water
[00:52:52] <CaptHindsight> minivan with snorkel
[00:52:53] <zeeshan|2> :D
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[00:52:57] <furrywolf> for example, I know my truck is good until most of the way up the front grille. however, it's not a minivan. :P
[00:53:07] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: you said youre a delivery driver
[00:53:10] <zeeshan|2> for a courier? :P
[00:53:13] <zeeshan|2> or drugs?
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[00:53:17] <zeeshan|2> :]
[00:53:34] <LeelooMinai> Regardless, that water there is probably not good for a car in general
[00:53:40] <CaptHindsight> http://ok4wd.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/0/s047.png
[00:53:46] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: bad ass
[00:53:47] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:53:57] <zeeshan|2> ive been a landrover like that
[00:53:59] <zeeshan|2> *in
[00:54:02] <XXCoder> lol almost looks same as mine. might be mecury edition though
[00:54:10] <CaptHindsight> you can drive these all day long in water that deep
[00:54:21] <zeeshan|2> yea
[00:54:24] <zeeshan|2> and they're SEALED so well
[00:54:26] <zeeshan|2> water doesnt get in
[00:54:28] <XXCoder> just get car snokel
[00:54:31] <jdh> I hate those terminal strips
[00:54:38] <zeeshan|2> jdh which ones
[00:54:40] <CaptHindsight> they have filters and check vales on the vents to the diffs, gearbox, etc
[00:54:43] <jdh> Leeloos
[00:54:46] <zeeshan|2> link
[00:54:51] <zeeshan|2> i just unignored :)
[00:55:00] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: exactly like yours lol
[00:55:00] <jdh> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15837471732/in/photostream/
[00:55:08] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:55:12] <zeeshan|2> those are all over my dad's dental chairs
[00:55:12] <PetefromTn_> my suzuki samurai's could do that..
[00:55:14] <zeeshan|2> theyre a piece of shit
[00:55:17] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Who, me? Can I make jokes about destroying drives again? :)
[00:55:17] <furrywolf> my truck had the option for a fording package, but I do not have it. on mine the axles etc are vented to the intake, but not pressurized. with the fording kit they'd be pressurized.
[00:55:28] <zeeshan|2> no you're too busy using shitty terminal strips
[00:55:30] <zeeshan|2> :]
[00:55:44] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: !!1
[00:55:46] <zeeshan|2> whered you come from
[00:55:48] <zeeshan|2> i was looking for you!
[00:55:50] <XXCoder> I really need to get strips or something
[00:55:51] * LeelooMinai looks at the strips
[00:55:56] <XXCoder> finally wire up my walk sign
[00:55:57] <PetefromTn_> why?
[00:56:00] <XXCoder> see how well it works
[00:56:01] <zeeshan|2> you owe me money
[00:56:02] <jdh> your limit switches are also 90 degrees off
[00:56:06] <zeeshan|2> actually you dont
[00:56:10] <zeeshan|2> i need info from you
[00:56:11] <LeelooMinai> Well, to be honest, I did not find anything wrong with them really... They are just strips:)
[00:56:19] <zeeshan|2> i need to know what drive and motor and brake youre using
[00:56:20] <zeeshan|2> for your Z
[00:56:27] <PetefromTn_> why?
[00:56:32] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of replacing my whole shit
[00:56:33] <furrywolf> you need wire nuts!
[00:56:37] <zeeshan|2> in an attempt to solve it
[00:56:38] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[00:56:48] <zeeshan|2> i appreciate al lthe help i've gotten here
[00:56:51] <PetefromTn_> I am using the Teco motors and drives from Machmotion..
[00:56:56] <zeeshan|2> but really deduction says its the motor
[00:57:00] <jdh> MACH!
[00:57:03] <XXCoder> get clipper, hunt for wires, cut nuts off ;) now you has wire nuts :P
[00:57:08] <LeelooMinai> jdh: I made them this way kind of "consciously":)
[00:57:26] <XXCoder> furrywolf: cant use wire nuts with spades
[00:57:29] <zeeshan|2> is there a package?
[00:57:37] <zeeshan|2> or you mix and matched
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[00:57:53] <PetefromTn_> http://machmotion.com/cnc-products/drives-motors/1000w-2000rpm-ac-servo-drive-and-motor.html
[00:58:11] <zeeshan|2> no brake?
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[00:58:19] <XXCoder> price as configured: $0 lol
[00:58:26] <XXCoder> gonna love sites that depend on script
[00:58:27] <zeeshan|2> oh its optional
[00:58:34] <PetefromTn_> actually the Z was the 1000 RPM motor or should have been but I was impatient when they were out of stock on the one I wanted
[00:58:37] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[00:58:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah its optional
[00:58:42] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Since you had me on ingore, what do you think of investing in some cheap equipment for diagnosing this stuff, and systematically test everything one by one and in isolaition?
[00:58:43] <zeeshan|2> "continuous torque 4.78n*m"
[00:58:48] <PetefromTn_> they raised their prices CONSDERABLY
[00:58:52] <zeeshan|2> thats significantly less than the 7.5N*m rating
[00:58:53] <zeeshan|2> :(
[00:59:04] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: you can do it for me
[00:59:08] <zeeshan|2> you already have the equip
[00:59:10] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[00:59:15] <LeelooMinai> At leat that would be my plan...
[00:59:16] <zeeshan|2> ill mail these to you
[00:59:22] <furrywolf> finding a motor with the right built-in brake and everything will be fun.
[00:59:33] <PetefromTn_> look at the 1000 RPM one..
[01:00:08] <PetefromTn_> http://machmotion.com/cnc-products/drives-motors/1000w-1000rpm-ac-servo-drive-and-motor.html
[01:00:10] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: You did not even manage to make 100% sure that your motor is fine... No wonder you keep killing stuff:)
[01:00:18] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: i did
[01:00:24] <zeeshan|2> i did all the tests except insulation test
[01:00:35] <zeeshan|2> that all these servo repairs videos do
[01:00:37] <furrywolf> measure resistance from motor coil to case while very slowly rotating motor
[01:01:02] <LeelooMinai> I wrote 100%, not 80%:)
[01:01:08] <zeeshan|2> http://machmotion.com/cnc-products/drives-motors/teco-servo-drives-and-motors/1000w-1000rpm-ac-servo-drive-and-motor.html
[01:01:09] <zeeshan|2> thats it
[01:01:14] <zeeshan|2> thats a lot of $
[01:01:15] <zeeshan|2> lol
[01:01:29] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: cmon
[01:01:33] <zeeshan|2> check my drives out
[01:01:35] <zeeshan|2> you have a scope
[01:01:36] <LeelooMinai> That's kind of expensive
[01:01:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah unfortunately it is..
[01:01:52] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: it might be cheaper to get this motor rebuilt
[01:02:16] <PetefromTn_> you are not even sure what the problem is really tho..
[01:02:16] <zeeshan|2> it drives me insane not knowing the problem though
[01:02:19] <zeeshan|2> i hate throwing money at shit
[01:02:23] <zeeshan|2> not knowing the end result
[01:02:32] <zeeshan|2> exactly man
[01:03:01] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2:If you have test equipment... You can jsut learn how to use it, no? :)
[01:03:18] <PetefromTn_> the kinds of problems you are having honestly is the MAJOR reason I went the way I did with my machine
[01:03:28] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SIEMENS-1HU3073-0AC01-Z-Permanent-Magnet-Motor-f-DECKEL-DC-30-FP3NC-FP4NC-/321651290675?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item4ae3e93233
[01:03:31] <LeelooMinai> What way?
[01:03:34] <zeeshan|2> refurbed one
[01:03:38] <zeeshan|2> its a bit slower than my motor
[01:03:40] <zeeshan|2> 1000 rpm diff.
[01:03:46] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: fu
[01:03:50] <zeeshan|2> check my shit! :p
[01:03:50] <Crom_> time to go check out rat shack, to see if they have dropped prices on stuff
[01:04:03] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: but they were working so good :-[
[01:04:05] <zeeshan|2> now i'm plauged
[01:04:07] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Seriously:) I would invest some time into that...
[01:04:17] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: the only thing i need is i think a scope
[01:04:23] <zeeshan|2> and a insulation tester
[01:04:27] <zeeshan|2> fluke makes one
[01:04:28] <zeeshan|2> but its not cheap
[01:04:30] <zeeshan|2> its like 1200$
[01:04:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know man I feel sorry for you. I know how it feels to have shit blowing up all the time and not knowing what is wrong...
[01:04:42] <LeelooMinai> Sometimes one has to take few steps back and start again in systhematic fasion and better understanding
[01:05:04] <zeeshan|2> okay you know what ill do.
[01:05:05] <furrywolf> I really don't know what your problem is... I can think of reasons why it can't be any part of the system, yet it obviously is one of them. heh.
[01:05:06] <LeelooMinai> Will save you time in the long run probably
[01:05:06] <zeeshan|2> ill remove the drive
[01:05:09] <Crom_> There are the pc scopes that connect via USB
[01:05:09] <zeeshan|2> put it on my bench
[01:05:10] <jdh> you don't need an insulation tester
[01:05:19] <zeeshan|2> and power it up
[01:05:30] <zeeshan|2> using a 12v car battery
[01:05:38] <jdh> no bench PS?
[01:05:40] <zeeshan|2> ill measure the voltage between the case
[01:05:44] <furrywolf> drive needs >30v
[01:05:44] <Crom_> off to rat shack weeeeeeeeeeee
[01:05:57] <jdh> when are the rat shack close-out sales?
[01:06:00] <furrywolf> crom: maybe. many of them closed last week.
[01:06:10] <furrywolf> I haven't checked the local ones...
[01:06:26] <furrywolf> jdh: some stores are already closing out everything, from the articles I've seen.
[01:06:32] <zeeshan|2> jdh: unfortuantely nothing larger than 12v i can think of
[01:06:46] <furrywolf> how many car batteries do you have? :)
[01:06:50] <zeeshan|2> 2
[01:06:52] <zeeshan|2> :)
[01:06:58] <furrywolf> there's 24V, drive might run off that. might.
[01:07:07] <furrywolf> don't the specs say 30+?
[01:07:12] <jdh> at least you won't be lacking for current
[01:07:13] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of powering the motor directly
[01:07:33] <furrywolf> oh, you just said you were going to put the drive on the bench and power it.
[01:07:41] <zeeshan|2> using ac mains
[01:07:56] <furrywolf> ... and power it up, using a 12v car battery
[01:08:07] <zeeshan|2> i should be more clear
[01:08:12] <zeeshan|2> its 2 seperate tests
[01:08:39] <zeeshan|2> 12v should spin the motor fairly slowly
[01:08:47] <zeeshan|2> if i have a volt meter hooked up from the chassis of the motor
[01:08:52] <zeeshan|2> and negative of the battery 12v
[01:08:59] <zeeshan|2> i should be able to pick up a short?
[01:09:08] <furrywolf> you should read nothing at all
[01:09:17] <zeeshan|2> too slow? :)
[01:09:26] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: bring your scope over
[01:09:31] <zeeshan|2> pretty plz :)
[01:09:35] <furrywolf> no, there simply should be no connection from the motor windings to the case.
[01:09:50] <LeelooMinai> Buy one - it's much cheaper than all those fancy servos:)
[01:09:58] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: its cheaper to borrow one
[01:10:01] <zeeshan|2> ill never use it again! :P
[01:10:11] <jdh> sure you will
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[01:10:34] <LeelooMinai> But I have only one scope. Judging from your experience with drives, you would need at least 4 scopes to have a chance of succeeding:)
[01:10:38] <zeeshan|2> im almost tempted to go back to my shady ways
[01:10:42] <jdh> heh
[01:11:01] <zeeshan|2> im gonna hook up the power to the drive with no motor connected within the cnc controller
[01:11:06] <zeeshan|2> cycle it a bunch of times
[01:11:09] <zeeshan|2> if it survives
[01:11:16] <zeeshan|2> ill hook up the control side
[01:11:20] <zeeshan|2> cycle it a bunch of times
[01:11:36] <zeeshan|2> if it survives , hook up the motor
[01:11:42] <zeeshan|2> if it blows up
[01:11:44] <zeeshan|2> problem is found
[01:11:48] <zeeshan|2> 500$ to rebuild the servo
[01:11:53] <zeeshan|2> $300 to order another drive
[01:12:00] <zeeshan|2> still cheaper than buying em new
[01:12:17] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: give me your approval
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[01:13:34] <XXCoder> rebuild yourself or?
[01:13:37] <zeeshan|2> nah
[01:13:45] <zeeshan|2> send it to a company that can test and certify
[01:13:51] <zeeshan|2> so if it blows again i can get them to fix it :P
[01:14:08] <zeeshan|2> i'll tell them up front whats up
[01:14:24] <zeeshan|2> i'm gonna increase my chances of success
[01:14:27] <zeeshan|2> by moving l2 to l1
[01:14:28] <zeeshan|2> for the z drive
[01:14:58] * LeelooMinai thinks that zeeshan will manage to blow everything electonic up and will be left with the frame only
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[01:15:27] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: hey at least i get shit done
[01:15:31] <zeeshan|2> in style
[01:15:41] <zeeshan|2> and i can help people that are close by when in need
[01:15:44] <zeeshan|2> unlike you
[01:16:00] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[01:16:01] <LeelooMinai> You may consider moving to steam-powered machines/technology too:)
[01:16:13] <zeeshan|2> perhaps you should move to china
[01:16:20] <zeeshan|2> you buy enough chinese crap :)
[01:16:41] <XXCoder> steam powered cnc. perfect for steampunk theme :P
[01:16:42] <zeeshan|2> oh nm
[01:16:43] <zeeshan|2> i forgot
[01:16:46] <zeeshan|2> you dont step outside your house
[01:16:53] <zeeshan|2> cause the world scares the shit out of you
[01:16:57] <LeelooMinai> Well, you see, at least when something Chinese gets broken (not that it did for me:), it's cheap to replace it.
[01:17:16] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: karma is a bitch when it strikes
[01:17:31] <zeeshan|2> keep it up
[01:17:54] <LeelooMinai> I just try to be reasonable as to expectations:)
[01:18:08] <LeelooMinai> Worked well for years.
[01:18:13] <zeeshan|2> good for you
[01:18:14] * furrywolf tries to help most people
[01:18:19] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: i totally agree
[01:18:22] <zeeshan|2> you've been very helpful
[01:18:29] <zeeshan|2> that is why i need your ultimate approval now
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[01:18:33] <zeeshan|2> to blow up one final drive
[01:18:35] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[01:18:48] <LeelooMinai> I help too, but in mysterious ways:p
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[01:18:49] <furrywolf> I'm not sure you'll learn much...
[01:18:55] <zeeshan|2> look
[01:18:57] <zeeshan|2> when i hook u pthe motor
[01:18:58] <zeeshan|2> and it blows
[01:19:06] <zeeshan|2> it can at least deduce its the motor?
[01:19:46] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: you were 0 help
[01:19:53] <zeeshan|2> sorry to break your bubble
[01:20:06] <malcom2073> Can i be less than 0 help
[01:20:07] <malcom2073> ?
[01:20:20] <XXCoder> malcom2073: yesno
[01:20:21] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: I must say you are very consistent though - it seems the 4th drive's days are counted too already:)
[01:20:27] <furrywolf> swap both power and control with your X axis, perhaps?
[01:20:39] <jdh> do you have a fire extinguisher?
[01:20:56] <LeelooMinai> Or 4 fire extinguishers even:)
[01:21:06] <zeeshan|2> you know one interesting thing
[01:21:10] <zeeshan|2> the lady at amc told me
[01:21:13] <zeeshan|2> these drives are 15 years OLD
[01:21:14] <zeeshan|2> lol
[01:21:19] <jdh> that's nothing
[01:21:29] <zeeshan|2> well the caps have a certain life yea?
[01:21:43] <jdh> didn't you re-cap them when you got them?
[01:21:46] <zeeshan|2> no
[01:21:46] <furrywolf> I'd probably do more testing rather than sacrafice a drive... but I don't know what tests you can do.
[01:22:21] <furrywolf> getting a 'scope would be a good step... even if you do blow the drive, you might see something on it in the process.
[01:22:29] <furrywolf> powering the motor on the bench is another good idea.
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[01:23:08] <furrywolf> power it with a light bulb in series while it's on the bench, not directly off the battery.
[01:23:23] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: you're the type of person who'd walk by a dieing person
[01:23:30] <zeeshan|2> without calling 911
[01:23:37] <jdh> but, taking a pic
[01:23:50] <andypugh> That was silly, I just drilled a 1/8” hole in my finger. It could have been worse, I suppose, it could have been 3/16”
[01:23:55] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Indeed, as I don't own a cell phone:)
[01:24:05] <jdh> wow
[01:24:14] <XXCoder> 1"
[01:24:18] <zeeshan|2> ouch andypugh
[01:24:19] <LeelooMinai> andypugh: Through-hole? :)
[01:24:32] <andypugh> No, I stopped as soon as I noticed
[01:24:43] <zeeshan|2> did you bleed? :p
[01:24:56] <zeeshan|2> or just upper skin loss
[01:24:58] * furrywolf figures you probably notice things like that pretty quickly
[01:25:01] <XXCoder> glad I didnt manage to do same even after 525 parts drilled
[01:25:06] <XXCoder> * 6 hole eah part
[01:25:11] <zeeshan|2> lol XXCoder
[01:25:22] <XXCoder> 3,150 holes
[01:25:47] <andypugh> Not at the time, I applied a bit of shop rag and kept the pressure on. But then it bled quite a lot after I had finished the job and came in and washed my hands.
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[01:26:17] <LeelooMinai> andypugh: Did you at least deburr the hole?
[01:26:18] <Tom_shop> hrm
[01:26:24] <Tom_shop> GFIC sure didn't like that
[01:26:31] <zeeshan|2> what happened
[01:26:46] <andypugh> I was stupid
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[01:26:55] <Tom_shop> i wired the C6 to the drive and turned on the control
[01:27:07] <Tom_shop> and popped the GFIC
[01:27:08] <XXCoder> 1,000 to go sigh thats 2 more days :P so boring
[01:27:10] <zeeshan|2> shit
[01:27:17] <zeeshan|2> i hope you didnt damage anything
[01:27:21] <Tom_shop> i thought it was supposed to be isolated
[01:27:32] <andypugh> I didn’t want to dent the headlamp shell as drilled the rivet hole, so I supported from behind with a finger. Actually that is probably worse than stupid.
[01:27:33] <Tom_shop> the motor still turns manually
[01:27:33] <LeelooMinai> I fears read that at C4
[01:27:43] <zeeshan|2> !voteban LeelooMinai
[01:27:58] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: fak
[01:28:23] <furrywolf> tom: some switching power supplies will trip gfcis, but checking everything rather closely.
[01:28:37] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Don't ban me! I will make documentary of you blowing things:)
[01:28:56] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: cool
[01:28:58] <Tom_shop> no switching supply
[01:29:01] <furrywolf> umm, yes, a block of wood is a good backstop for drilling. a finger is not.
[01:29:14] <andypugh> VFD mains input filters trip non-industrial ones too. You need 30mA not 3mA GFIC for filters
[01:29:19] <LeelooMinai> Unless one has fingers like Chuck Norris
[01:29:24] <XXCoder> wood is goos
[01:29:29] <XXCoder> goos
[01:29:33] <XXCoder> dammit good
[01:29:37] <andypugh> woos id goof?
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[01:31:36] <furrywolf> andy: yep. on my two supplies that will trip the gfci, it's probably the filters too. they only trip at load...
[01:32:09] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, just connecting the signal wires to the driver seem to trip it
[01:32:27] <furrywolf> are you creating a ground loop?
[01:32:37] <furrywolf> i.e. your signal ground runs to something else that's grounded somewhere else?
[01:32:40] <Tom_itx> maybe?
[01:32:50] <Tom_itx> yeah
[01:33:01] <Tom_itx> 2 different outlets
[01:33:31] <furrywolf> well there's your problem.
[01:33:40] <furrywolf> don't do that. :)
[01:33:43] <Tom_itx> i'll plug them in the same one and connect the GND only and see what happens
[01:33:49] <furrywolf> plug both into a power strip on one outlet
[01:34:29] <Tom_itx> i am
[01:37:37] <furrywolf> and it works now?
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[01:38:52] <furrywolf> hrmm, my weather station seems to be underreporting rain... I noticed it seemed to be reading low (only reading .25"/hr, when I knew it was faster than that), so I set a 5gal bucket up outside. said bucket now has ~4" in it, while weather station says 1.55".
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[01:39:10] <Tom_itx> same thing
[01:39:26] <XXCoder> think it has to be specific test but dunno
[01:39:45] <furrywolf> could be you have an actual fault, could be the filters are tripping it.
[01:40:07] <Tom_itx> i'll measure the voltage across those GNDs
[01:40:22] <XXCoder> http://www.wikihow.com/Measure-Rain
[01:40:24] <furrywolf> it still trips with both plugged into a power strip?
[01:40:37] <XXCoder> also local areas may get more rain
[01:41:04] <furrywolf> xxcoder: normally my weather station reads a little over what buckets/etc show. now it's reading less than half. methinks that when the rain stops, I'll need to get a ladder on the roof and make sure it's not full of leaves or something.
[01:41:29] <XXCoder> yeah good idea. gonna clean it sometimes
[01:42:12] <furrywolf> it's your basic cheapo self-tipping bucket.
[01:43:20] <PetefromTn_> MMmm spiedino di mare!
[01:43:32] <furrywolf> ?
[01:44:21] <XXCoder> spend more I guess?
[01:45:42] <furrywolf> I wouldn't mind a higher quality weather station, but I have no real use for it...
[01:46:08] <Tom_itx> with the drive on i get 66v across the GNDs
[01:46:22] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Google translate gets “skewer of sea” which doesn’t make much sense to me :-)
[01:46:36] <Tom_itx> on the GND and DAC signal lines
[01:46:38] <malcom2073> seafood skewers?
[01:46:52] <andypugh> Ah, maybe.
[01:47:17] <furrywolf> tom: could be a fault, could be you have some pretty large filter caps between line and ground...
[01:47:36] <PetefromTn_> http://seafood.betterrecipes.com/uploads/photo/400x300/f/d/fd11a09b8e84c197daef59bd67278c18.jpg
[01:48:56] <andypugh> I officially like Inventor HSM, it’s the first CAM package I have found that makes paths like you might imaging doing them yourself.
[01:49:04] <andypugh> Pity I can’t afford it.
[01:49:22] <furrywolf> yeah, I need to find a good free cam program.
[01:49:52] <andypugh> I don’t think there is one
[01:50:09] <andypugh> I think that CAM is hard.
[01:50:19] <XXCoder> there is inkscape svg to nc convertor but hardly what we need
[01:50:23] <XXCoder> I need good free cam too
[01:50:34] <Tom_itx> well their GND on the drive isn't GND but i'm not sure how to connect it any other way
[01:51:08] <andypugh> Night all
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[02:08:52] <PetefromTn_> Damn that was yummy! hehe
[02:23:30] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 you have a link to that driver you think would work for me?
[02:23:37] <Tom_itx> 120v in
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[02:30:49] <_methods> good, free, and CAM are 3 words that you won't see together lol
[02:31:07] <Tom_L> ever
[02:32:08] <_methods> i need to finish my mini mill conversion cranking handles is no fun
[02:32:27] <Tom_L> git r done
[02:32:48] <_methods> yeah i'm cuttin the ballscrews and making the x and y mounting blocks this weekend
[02:33:22] <_methods> bearing blocks
[02:33:32] <_methods> got the bearings yesterday
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[02:36:55] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: for what
[02:36:57] <zeeshan|2> amc ?
[02:37:02] <zeeshan|2> i don't recommend amc products :P
[02:37:07] <Tom_L> haha
[02:37:16] <Tom_L> no, that one you linked to me a while back
[02:37:19] <Tom_L> was that AMC?
[02:37:22] <zeeshan|2> yes
[02:37:22] <zeeshan|2> lol
[02:37:25] <Tom_L> fark
[02:37:37] <Tom_L> what was it?
[02:37:40] <zeeshan|2> where did furry go
[02:37:52] <zeeshan|2> i forget tom
[02:38:00] <Tom_L> this drive needs isolation to the DAC
[02:38:07] <Tom_L> the GND is floating
[02:38:11] <zeeshan|2> are you gonna buy a new spindle drive?
[02:38:21] <Tom_L> if i can find a cheap one
[02:38:24] <zeeshan|2> http://www.a-m-c.com/products/analog_brushless.html
[02:38:25] <zeeshan|2> take a look here
[02:38:34] <zeeshan|2> you need encoder input
[02:38:36] <zeeshan|2> for velocity loop?
[02:38:44] <Tom_L> lcnc can do that
[02:38:51] <Tom_L> the drive doesn't need to
[02:38:59] <zeeshan|2> well these guys have enc
[02:39:00] <zeeshan|2> tacho
[02:39:02] <zeeshan|2> or whatever
[02:39:11] <zeeshan|2> i guess youre trying to just run it open loop?
[02:39:16] <Tom_L> i thought you said AMC was junk?
[02:39:24] <zeeshan|2> lol
[02:39:27] <Tom_L> for now i just wanna get it going
[02:39:29] <zeeshan|2> i don't know how to feel about them na
[02:39:30] <zeeshan|2> *man
[02:39:33] <Tom_L> but i'm in no rush
[02:40:07] <Tom_L> was it BE25A20AC?
[02:40:10] <zeeshan|2> yes
[02:40:11] <zeeshan|2> but fu!!!
[02:40:16] <zeeshan|2> dont remove the stock from ebay
[02:40:17] <zeeshan|2> haha
[02:40:19] * zeeshan|2 wants 3 more
[02:40:35] <zeeshan|2> you dont need something that huge
[02:40:38] <Tom_L> is that what you were using?
[02:40:40] <zeeshan|2> yes
[02:40:55] <zeeshan|2> youre good at building power supplies
[02:40:57] <Tom_L> it converts the line ac to dc for the motor right?
[02:41:00] <zeeshan|2> yea
[02:41:07] <zeeshan|2> but it goes upto 190VAC
[02:41:08] <zeeshan|2> er
[02:41:09] <zeeshan|2> 190VDC
[02:41:13] <Tom_L> i got no more room for power supplies
[02:41:17] <zeeshan|2> if you wanna limit the current
[02:41:20] <Tom_L> but you can limit it right?
[02:41:25] <zeeshan|2> not the voltage
[02:41:29] <Tom_L> hmm
[02:41:32] <Tom_L> i need 90vdc
[02:41:35] <zeeshan|2> i might be completely wrong
[02:41:43] <zeeshan|2> but the only way i figured out you can get less vdc out
[02:41:47] <zeeshan|2> is by decreasing the vac.
[02:42:00] <zeeshan|2> you'd need to somehow drop the 120vac down to 50
[02:42:02] <zeeshan|2> er
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[02:42:21] <zeeshan|2> 64 VAC
[02:43:01] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brush-Type-PWM-Servo-Amplifier-/181316559854?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a374f23ee
[02:43:03] <zeeshan|2> you can get this dirt cheap
[02:43:07] <zeeshan|2> if you had your own supply
[02:43:16] <zeeshan|2> the only reason i wanted an internal supply
[02:43:23] <zeeshan|2> was because 170VDC supplies are hard to find
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[02:43:36] <Tom_L> no room for another supply
[02:43:49] <zeeshan|2> then you want the be25a20ac
[02:44:00] <zeeshan|2> thats smallest one with builtin supply
[02:44:24] <zeeshan|2> btw i'd like to report
[02:44:27] <zeeshan|2> that i power cycled the drive
[02:44:29] <zeeshan|2> 15 times
[02:44:31] <zeeshan|2> like CRAZY
[02:44:34] <zeeshan|2> and it hasn't blown
[02:44:40] <RyanS> chinese? http://www.machines4u.com.au/view/advert/Morton-Fel-1440E-centre-lathe/199220/
[02:44:42] <zeeshan|2> this is with no control stuff hooked up
[02:44:44] <zeeshan|2> or motor.
[02:46:31] <zeeshan|2> ryan that looks very much chinese
[02:46:32] <zeeshan|2> lol
[02:47:15] <RyanS> too new looking ?
[02:47:17] <zeeshan|2> one thing that throws me off is that speed changer
[02:47:28] <zeeshan|2> i havent seen that on a chinese lathe before
[02:47:37] <zeeshan|2> ive seen that on say the clausing lathes
[02:47:41] <_methods> looks like a cubiq
[02:48:08] <zeeshan|2> http://www.efcomachineshop.com/images/clausing%20lathe.bmp
[02:50:14] <tjtr33> tripodkins is 'for' 3 struts, not 3 wires. becuz the 3 joints share a plane at Z0 and motion is at or above this plane. surprising default, like a hexapod, not a cable crane.
[02:50:37] <zeeshan|2> i got a question for you guys
[02:50:45] <zeeshan|2> if i hook up the tachometer, analog signal and enable signal
[02:50:49] <zeeshan|2> (control stuff for servo drive)
[02:50:54] <zeeshan|2> and not hook up the motor wires
[02:50:58] <zeeshan|2> will anything bad happen
[02:51:05] <RyanS> I was looking at this conversion http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=97255&start=36 seems crazy to gut a $3500 lathe. So would it be better. For instance with something cheaper http://www.machines4u.com.au/view/advert/Shun-Shin-240V-Lathe-and-Stand-Taiwanese/196882/ if you are going to gut it
[02:51:20] <Tom_L> zeeshan|2 i dunno but you could hook a bulb up to it
[02:51:25] <Tom_L> for a load
[02:51:31] <zeeshan|2> wont it blow it up
[02:51:35] <zeeshan|2> cause it'll try to output a lot of voltage
[02:51:47] <Tom_L> bulbs are cheaper than motors
[02:51:50] <zeeshan|2> in the manual it says not to disconnect a motor
[02:51:57] <zeeshan|2> while enabled
[02:52:01] <Tom_L> well of course
[02:52:01] <zeeshan|2> this causes voltage spikes
[02:52:06] <zeeshan|2> im thinking if the bulb blows
[02:52:07] <Tom_L> that will cause a spike
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[02:52:08] <zeeshan|2> it might cause a voltage spike
[02:52:13] <Tom_L> hmm
[02:52:20] <Tom_L> no windings in a bulb
[02:52:31] <Tom_L> i dunno
[02:52:48] <Tom_L> no coils for the voltage to collapse from
[02:53:14] <zeeshan|2> i really want to hook the control stuff up
[02:53:16] <zeeshan|2> and do a couple of power cycles
[02:53:20] <zeeshan|2> and then fhe final test
[02:53:23] <zeeshan|2> power cycle w/ motor.
[02:53:29] <zeeshan|2> actually...
[02:53:42] <zeeshan|2> if it doesnt blow up w/ the control stuff hooked up
[02:53:44] <zeeshan|2> ill just get the motor rebuilt
[02:53:57] <zeeshan|2> i dont wanna risk blowing up another drive
[02:55:40] <Tom_L> it would be like blowing a fuse
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[02:57:20] <Tom_L> zeeshan|2 it _should_ be ok
[02:57:36] <zeeshan|2> i just wont enable the drive
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[03:02:17] <RyanS> sexy http://www.tradeplantequipment.com.au/detail/engineering---fabrication/lathes/madras/ge2-centre-lathe/141579 bit rusty tho
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[03:13:03] <_methods> http://www.liteplacer.com/
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[03:17:35] <renesis> meryan00: that nozzle looks so big
[03:17:53] <_methods> that's what she said
[03:17:55] <renesis> totally looks capable of sucking up the part sideways
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[03:20:08] <renesis> thats pretty neat tho
[03:20:58] <_methods> yeah
[03:22:00] <renesis> i think they should change Affordable! to Affordable.
[03:22:35] <_methods> lots of pick and place projects right now
[03:22:43] <_methods> none of them seem to work all that great
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[03:22:46] <_methods> but still cool
[03:22:56] <renesis> well give it a few years
[03:23:15] <renesis> way more useful tech than 3d printers out of wood
[03:23:22] <_methods> yeah
[03:23:33] <renesis> one of the girls at school mention makerbot sucks because it doesnt calibrate right
[03:23:42] <renesis> im like, you cant calibrate out suck
[03:23:43] <_methods> hahhaha
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[03:24:02] <_methods> yeah i don't understand their obsession with auto bed leveling
[03:24:06] <_methods> it takes like 3 min
[03:24:22] <_methods> if that
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[03:24:43] <_methods> i also don't understand their obsession with vases
[03:24:50] <renesis> its easy
[03:24:51] <XXCoder> vases all way down
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[03:25:27] <renesis> 3d printing if useful if you need a lot of plastic changes that you dont have to weld that cant carry any load
[03:25:45] <renesis> if thats what your application needs, 3d printing is for you
[03:25:58] <XXCoder> also impossible to make otherwise stuff
[03:26:03] <_methods> it's great for a check to make sure something is going to fit up right
[03:26:12] <_methods> or just see how something will look
[03:26:13] <renesis> yeah
[03:26:16] <renesis> yup
[03:26:26] <renesis> and i have people argue with me on that
[03:26:39] <renesis> and im like, youve never tried to drill, cut, or screw into an FDM part
[03:26:46] <renesis> if you think its structurally sound
[03:26:58] <_methods> they don't know any better
[03:27:08] <renesis> and UV set is just weird
[03:27:18] <renesis> its soft unless you let it cure in UV lamps for hours, overnight
[03:27:32] <renesis> like, you the machine was $250k because its supposed to be fast
[03:27:50] <renesis> *yo
[03:28:03] <renesis> but SLA is sex
[03:28:12] <_methods> the sls stuff is getting pretty impressive
[03:28:14] <renesis> when people say im a hater, i bring up SLA
[03:28:38] <renesis> yeah theres little ones now that are pretty useful
[03:28:38] <_methods> but still it's niche for now
[03:28:47] <renesis> its a bit too hard to be great for fab
[03:29:08] <renesis> but its so fucking cool looking, and if youre smart and keep in mind its rigid as fuck, you can machine it, screw into it, etc
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[03:29:19] <_methods> the work envelope is just too small on top of that
[03:29:46] <renesis> heh
[03:30:04] <renesis> for work, ive seen some huge sla parts
[03:30:11] <_methods> oh yeah?
[03:30:12] <renesis> like, bigass compression driver horns
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[03:30:25] <renesis> yeah but im pretty sure the part itself cost $10k+
[03:30:25] <_methods> 10' long lol
[03:30:29] <renesis> machines gotta be huge
[03:30:34] <_methods> exactly
[03:31:00] <renesis> but compared to FDM and UV set, its just so much more useful
[03:31:35] <_methods> yeah i've had fun with my 3d printers and made some cool things
[03:31:45] <renesis> like, it doesnt feel like a melted together jumble of particles, its consistent in density throughout
[03:31:53] <_methods> but when i need a real part made i don't do it on a 3d printer lol
[03:32:10] <renesis> you have to design the part for 3d printed fab
[03:32:30] <renesis> which isnt helpful if youre trying to prototype some production or load bearing part
[03:32:30] <_methods> well you have to design any part with construction in mind
[03:33:03] <renesis> right but designing for FDM when you have something production or just higher quality in mind doesnt help because of it
[03:33:05] <_methods> but yes i see what you are saying there
[03:33:18] <_methods> you have to totally change the design for FDM
[03:33:24] <renesis> like ive been handed FDM versions of injection molded plastic parts and been told MAKE THE PROTOTYPE!
[03:33:30] <renesis> and its like, you bitches
[03:33:30] <_methods> lol
[03:33:32] <_methods> no draft
[03:33:36] <_methods> no nothing
[03:33:47] <_methods> lol
[03:33:49] <renesis> well maybe draft because injection molded but who cares
[03:33:57] <renesis> put a screw in the boss and half the part explodes
[03:34:15] <renesis> and then its like, HEY WHEN YOU MAKE ONE OF THESE FOR ME TO BUILD, MAKE 5 KTHX
[03:34:20] <knas> hello, i'm having some serious issues with mirrored y-axis motors in that one of them seemingly stops working after a little while, anyone recognizes this?
[03:34:28] <renesis> thats not really a joke thats how it would go down
[03:34:36] <_methods> overheating your driver?
[03:34:38] <_methods> binding
[03:34:49] <_methods> could be any number of things
[03:34:49] <renesis> yeah binding would be my guess
[03:34:57] <knas> binding? as in hal config?
[03:35:05] <_methods> no physically binding
[03:35:08] <_methods> on your axis
[03:35:10] <renesis> no as in your mating bits on the machine
[03:35:12] <_methods> out of alignment
[03:35:42] <knas> ah see the machine works perfectly with mach3 and has for about a year but i *always* got this issue with linuxcnc which is a damn shame because windows makes me want to cry
[03:35:49] <knas> so the hardware is fine is what i mean by that
[03:36:01] <_methods> could be your settings for steps
[03:36:06] <_methods> is it using steppers?
[03:36:11] <knas> yes
[03:36:50] <knas> it's a krmx02 home made machine
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[03:37:10] <tjtr33> how are the 2 motors 'mirrored' ( are they driven by independant drives or one drive or... )
[03:37:44] <tjtr33> make that 'how are they coupled'
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[03:38:42] <knas> they're driven independently on different pins with a gecko 540, the step/dir pins for both motors are set to the ystep / ydir nets but ydir is inverted for one of them
[03:39:45] <knas> so the gecko just knows them as 'y' and 'a' and they happen on different pins on my parallel port
[03:40:11] <tjtr33> is one push and one pull? same screw or 2 screws?
[03:40:17] <knas> it's weird tho 'cause it works just fine for a while then all of a sudden one of them seems to stop running
[03:40:34] <knas> no they're on different sides of the machine driving independently
[03:41:04] <jdh> why inverted?
[03:41:21] <renesis> maybe on diff sides
[03:41:27] <knas> because the motors are facing each other
[03:41:29] <knas> yes
[03:41:31] <renesis> reverse screw would be kinda cool, heh
[03:41:33] <tjtr33> if the machine doesnt crab/rack too much, can you run ok with a single motor while debugging?
[03:41:46] <knas> no it stalls like crazy, that's how i noticed it
[03:42:04] <knas> i mean i can debug it but not run it
[03:42:14] <tjtr33> ( yes it is one push and one pull, motors face each other and dir is reversevd on one )
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[03:43:45] <tjtr33> oh and 2 motors ar enecessary for th eload of the slide?
[03:44:03] <zeeshan|2> no blowups so far
[03:44:04] <knas> it should be fine to connect two pairs of pins to the same nets right? i'm worried since it's not readily repeatable but seems to happen randomly after a while
[03:44:16] <knas> yeah it's a heavy machine
[03:45:15] <pcw_home> randomly after a while sounds like a electrical issue (drive levels or timing)
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[03:45:26] <knas> it looks something like this (for reference) http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5302c451e4b00ab54929f137/t/532424d0e4b074f7f883f1f2/1394877648838/
[03:45:55] <zeeshan|2> you have 2 seperate drives
[03:45:57] <zeeshan|2> for each motor?
[03:46:00] <zeeshan|2> on that axis?
[03:46:04] <tjtr33> in hal you _may_ connect 2 pins to a net, but physicaly, you may not have enuf fanout from parpor to gecko
[03:46:18] <skunksleep> Knas how is latency on the system
[03:46:36] <knas> i've had a lot of latency issues, it's an old old computer
[03:46:44] <knas> like 50,000 or something
[03:46:52] <_methods> heh
[03:46:54] <_methods> ouch
[03:46:58] <pcw_home> same PC with Mach?
[03:47:01] <knas> yupp
[03:47:07] <knas> hardware setup is identical
[03:47:12] <knas> dual boot computer
[03:47:52] <zeeshan|2> man i don't know if i should risk hooking up the motor now
[03:47:57] <tjtr33> could hal step one and miss the other due to latency. thus building a lockup?
[03:47:57] <zeeshan|2> ive deduced it down to 2 things
[03:47:59] <zeeshan|2> well 3 things.
[03:47:59] <pcw_home> maybe timing
[03:48:01] <pcw_home> is parallel port set for EPP mode in BIOS?
[03:48:08] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 what have you tried so far?
[03:48:10] <zeeshan|2> 1. blown drives were bad drives w/ bad caps
[03:48:15] <zeeshan|2> 2. motor is bad
[03:48:20] <zeeshan|2> 3. l1 vs l2 hook up
[03:48:28] <zeeshan|2> ive cycled it like 25 times now
[03:48:30] <zeeshan|2> it hasnt blown up
[03:48:35] <zeeshan|2> only thing left to hook up is motor
[03:48:39] <Tom_itx> the drives worked on the other axis though
[03:48:44] <zeeshan|2> yes
[03:48:47] <zeeshan|2> but i have Z drive hooked up
[03:48:48] <zeeshan|2> now.
[03:48:52] <Tom_itx> i know
[03:48:57] <Tom_itx> and that's the problem one
[03:49:07] <Tom_itx> what's the common thing?
[03:49:08] <zeeshan|2> im saying i power cycled the z drive too
[03:49:17] <Tom_itx> with no motor
[03:49:19] <zeeshan|2> yes
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[03:49:23] <zeeshan|2> control stuff all hooked up
[03:49:28] <knas> the parallel port is set to EPP
[03:49:29] <renesis> you fixed it? or this is a new one
[03:49:31] <zeeshan|2> i think i should try enabling the drive
[03:49:39] <zeeshan|2> and cycling it a few times like that
[03:49:40] <Tom_itx> what if you added resistance between the motor leads?
[03:49:49] <zeeshan|2> im too afraid to
[03:49:50] <zeeshan|2> lol
[03:49:50] <Tom_itx> and the drive
[03:49:55] <Tom_itx> like a bulb
[03:50:00] <Tom_itx> largish
[03:50:04] <tjtr33> big bulb
[03:50:14] <tjtr33> driveway spot light
[03:50:18] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:50:21] <zeeshan|2> you know guys
[03:50:23] <zeeshan|2> you can quantify :-)
[03:50:29] <zeeshan|2> 100W bulb?
[03:50:34] <zeeshan|2> 120vac 60hz?
[03:50:39] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, what's the motor wattage?
[03:50:45] <zeeshan|2> good point
[03:50:48] <zeeshan|2> 1200 W
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[03:51:04] <Tom_itx> so 600W bulb on each lead
[03:51:11] <Tom_itx> 3phase?
[03:51:17] <zeeshan|2> no + -
[03:51:20] <zeeshan|2> brush motor
[03:51:31] <zeeshan|2> where in the world do you find a 600 w bulb
[03:51:32] <Tom_itx> use one of those 300w lamp bulbs
[03:51:33] <zeeshan|2> at 10:51 pm
[03:51:44] <Tom_itx> from one of those big spotlights
[03:51:57] <Tom_itx> i have 150 & 300w
[03:52:00] <zeeshan|2> i dont think you can be incadescent bulbs in canada nymore
[03:52:04] <zeeshan|2> they were banned last year
[03:52:09] <jdh> halogen
[03:52:15] <Tom_itx> so find something else with resistance
[03:52:19] <Tom_itx> stove element?
[03:52:31] <tjtr33> yeah
[03:52:31] <jdh> water heater
[03:52:36] <zeeshan|2> lol
[03:52:42] <Tom_itx> i'm not BS'n you
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[03:52:59] <tjtr33> stove elements are great fro brakes
[03:53:04] <Tom_itx> it may be the thing that saves your drive
[03:53:17] <Tom_itx> they make drive brakes from stove elements btw
[03:53:22] <zeeshan|2> if i enable the drive
[03:53:23] <zeeshan|2> with no load
[03:53:24] <zeeshan|2> what happens
[03:53:27] <tjtr33> dont you have brake resistors anyways?
[03:53:39] <zeeshan|2> yea i do
[03:53:42] <zeeshan|2> but theyre like 10 ohms
[03:53:53] <zeeshan|2> 25 W
[03:54:16] <zeeshan|2> just fyu
[03:54:19] <zeeshan|2> when you put the drive in test mode
[03:54:23] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/resistor2.jpg
[03:54:24] <zeeshan|2> you can vary the voltage
[03:54:25] <Tom_itx> you could borrow that
[03:54:29] <zeeshan|2> w/ nothing hooked up to the motor leads
[03:54:34] <zeeshan|2> thats huge
[03:54:35] <zeeshan|2> lol
[03:54:52] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/resistor1.jpg
[03:54:57] <zeeshan|2> if the tachometer isnt moving
[03:54:59] <zeeshan|2> during enable
[03:55:12] <zeeshan|2> wouldt that mmean the servo will output 0V?
[03:55:15] <zeeshan|2> but if i try to turn the motor
[03:55:19] <zeeshan|2> it'll go crazy
[03:55:42] -!- koo5 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[03:55:50] <zeeshan|2> thats a monster resistor
[03:56:03] <Tom_itx> it's come in handy many times
[03:56:17] <zeeshan|2> seriously its 1 of 3 things. 2 drives were bad to begin with, me moving the power from l2 to l1 fixed it
[03:56:20] <zeeshan|2> or the motor is fried
[03:56:28] <zeeshan|2> so to deduce its motor fried
[03:56:31] <zeeshan|2> i need to hook up a load
[03:56:48] <Tom_itx> so you need resistance between the motor and driver as a buffer
[03:56:58] <zeeshan|2> okay i can do that
[03:57:00] <tjtr33> while turnnig motor and tacho, the internal vel loop will drive. as soon as you stop turning the internal loop will be satisfied and stop driving. so a dummy loa dis good.
[03:57:17] <Tom_itx> but it needs to carry the normal motor load
[03:57:36] <tjtr33> yes,
[03:57:40] <Tom_itx> and if it shorts it will get rather hot but save the drive
[03:57:42] <tjtr33> (- , )
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[03:58:00] <zeeshan|2> what size resistor can i put in series
[03:58:08] <zeeshan|2> if i assume worse case
[03:58:12] <zeeshan|2> 12.5A max output of drive
[03:58:16] <zeeshan|2> @ 190VDC
[03:58:36] <XXCoder> add a fuse?
[03:58:44] <XXCoder> one that blows before it would damage drive
[03:59:08] <zeeshan|2> v=ir => R= V / I = 15.2 ohm
[03:59:16] <zeeshan|2> so if i put like a 10 ohm resistor
[03:59:16] <XXCoder> find one which would allow motor to work but blows before it would damage motor
[03:59:24] <zeeshan|2> it'll still allow enough current to pass through to drive the motor?
[03:59:39] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: i need to simulate a motor load
[03:59:42] <zeeshan|2> i might premature blow the fuse
[03:59:48] <XXCoder> oh
[03:59:53] <XXCoder> no idea on that
[04:00:17] <tjtr33> does coil resistance give a clue?
[04:00:24] <zeeshan|2> nahh
[04:00:26] <tjtr33> likley pretty low right?
[04:00:27] <zeeshan|2> 0.6 ohm pretty much
[04:00:33] <zeeshan|2> through out the rotation
[04:00:43] <zeeshan|2> spec is .45 ohm @ 20c
[04:00:52] <zeeshan|2> it will be higher cause garage is cold
[04:00:59] <tjtr33> and coil current rating?
[04:01:04] <zeeshan|2> 15.3A
[04:01:08] <Tom_itx> 10 ohm but how many watt?
[04:01:16] <zeeshan|2> biggest one igot is
[04:01:20] <witnit_> what happens when you do an AC check from machine to earth?
[04:01:26] <zeeshan|2> 50 watt
[04:01:47] <zeeshan|2> lemme check
[04:01:54] <zeeshan|2> you just wanna see from mains to earth
[04:02:00] <witnit_> just the machine body
[04:02:04] <witnit_> the frame
[04:02:06] <zeeshan|2> so l1 to frame
[04:02:06] <zeeshan|2> ok
[04:02:07] <witnit_> to earth ground
[04:02:08] <zeeshan|2> and l2
[04:02:16] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 that's what was the issue with my drive
[04:02:21] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: what?
[04:02:22] <Tom_itx> it floated the gnd
[04:02:31] <zeeshan|2> and it fried?
[04:02:32] <witnit_> machine frame to the actual earth
[04:02:34] <Tom_itx> it won't work witout some isolation
[04:02:41] <Tom_itx> no i didn't cook anything
[04:02:44] <zeeshan|2> witnit: its 0 ohms
[04:03:02] <Tom_itx> good
[04:03:38] <witnit_> anything is worth check now i suppose :)
[04:03:55] <zeeshan|2> im just trying to make a decision
[04:04:01] <zeeshan|2> blindly get the motor rebuilt
[04:04:06] <zeeshan|2> or risk burning the drive again
[04:04:07] <zeeshan|2> :)
[04:04:17] <Tom_itx> put resistance between it
[04:04:18] <witnit_> do some research on that motor model
[04:04:23] <witnit_> you may find some forums on it
[04:04:25] <zeeshan|2> i have all the specs for it
[04:04:29] <zeeshan|2> its a very old motor
[04:04:33] <Tom_itx> if it's a bad motor it won't go anyway but you'll save the drive
[04:04:36] <witnit_> whats the model?
[04:04:50] <zeeshan|2> 1hu3 073-0AF01
[04:04:54] <zeeshan|2> you wont find much about it online
[04:04:59] <zeeshan|2> its all in german
[04:07:20] <zeeshan|2> http://www.plccenter.ca/en-CA/Buy/SIEMENS/1HU30730AF01Z?reload=1&redirect=true
[04:07:23] <zeeshan|2> 5k new
[04:07:23] <zeeshan|2> lol
[04:07:37] <tjtr33> a small electric stove element is near 1000W,
[04:07:38] <tjtr33> you do the math here: my _guess_ is the 190V drops to near 30 thru the load, and the 15amp peak at .45ohm means 500watts. so the stove element is a suitable dummy load (YMMV)
[04:08:10] <Tom_itx> or a suitable buffer
[04:08:27] <tjtr33> 74xx ? :)
[04:08:39] <tjtr33> dunno what you mean by buffer
[04:08:46] <zeeshan|2> well guys
[04:08:51] <zeeshan|2> i dont think its my power distribution wiring
[04:08:52] <zeeshan|2> cause if it was
[04:08:53] <Tom_itx> put it in series with the motor
[04:08:54] <zeeshan|2> it shoulda blown by now
[04:09:08] <Tom_itx> if the motor shorts it won't blow the drive, it will heat the element
[04:09:10] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, yes a series load with motor, yes
[04:09:20] <zeeshan|2> yes
[04:09:22] <zeeshan|2> but how many ohms?
[04:09:31] <Tom_itx> just try one dude
[04:09:34] <witnit_> zeeshan can you list every wire attached to the amp?
[04:10:48] <zeeshan|2> AC -> L1 , N, earth. Control-> enable from 7i77,common between signal ground of drive and 7i77, analog+, analog- , tach-. tach+
[04:10:55] <zeeshan|2> thats all that is connected right now
[04:10:59] <zeeshan|2> it's missing motor + and -
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[04:11:18] <witnit_> you have an encoder for this axis?
[04:11:28] <zeeshan|2> yes but that interfaces directly with 7i77
[04:11:31] <zeeshan|2> since it is an absolute encoder
[04:11:44] <witnit_> can you ditch the tach? and test with low amps?
[04:11:54] <witnit_> just an cheap drive lying around
[04:11:56] <zeeshan|2> ditch it how
[04:12:03] <witnit_> just take it out of the loop
[04:12:13] <zeeshan|2> yea i can do that
[04:12:31] <witnit_> i mean, you shouldnt really need a tach
[04:12:39] <Connor> anyone here know anything about plumping ?
[04:12:40] <zeeshan|2> what i can also do
[04:12:43] <zeeshan|2> is current limit the drive.
[04:12:47] <zeeshan|2> so it doesnt push out 12.5A
[04:12:51] <Tom_itx> Connor it leaks when it freezes
[04:12:53] <zeeshan|2> i can limit it down to 1 A
[04:13:04] <witnit_> if you can eliminate as much as possible and just get it working then add pieces and watch for problems
[04:13:22] <zeeshan|2> witnit: thats what ive been trying to do :P
[04:13:32] <Tom_itx> Connor what's the problem
[04:14:12] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, dc brushed motor? did you ohm between the brushes & turn slow & look for shorts?
[04:14:12] <Connor> Trying to figure out how to replumb something.. it's galvanized.. replacing with PVC..
[04:14:25] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/IMG_2281.JPG
[04:14:28] <Connor> My Kitchen.
[04:14:35] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: yes dc brush
[04:14:40] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, (or use old school 'growler' on armature? )
[04:14:42] <zeeshan|2> i tried to turn slowly and look for shorts
[04:14:45] <Connor> I have a floor again... which makes this harder...
[04:14:57] <Tom_itx> what about copper?
[04:15:08] <Connor> For the drain ?
[04:15:21] <Tom_itx> oh you're changing the drain?
[04:15:24] <Connor> Yea.
[04:15:40] <zeeshan|2> wheres the kitchen!
[04:15:40] <Tom_itx> is that still exposed?
[04:15:43] <zeeshan|2> i see a gaping hole
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[04:15:52] <Connor> The wall part is.. the floor isn't
[04:16:03] <Tom_itx> why pvc?
[04:16:11] <Connor> Floor has been re-installed.. I'll have to cut it right above the 45
[04:16:44] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: i have the motor on the axis
[04:16:47] <Tom_itx> is that 1.25 or 1.5?
[04:16:47] <zeeshan|2> and i disable brake
[04:16:56] <zeeshan|2> and use a jack to stop it from falling
[04:16:59] <zeeshan|2> then i turn the pulley to lift the table
[04:17:02] <zeeshan|2> by hand
[04:17:16] <zeeshan|2> its a bit unreliable cause if i move the pulle ytoo fast
[04:17:19] <zeeshan|2> it'll go to infinite ohms
[04:17:31] <Tom_itx> Connor what's the p trap for?
[04:17:36] <Connor> Galvanized pipe has a 50 year life span. It starts corroding on the inside and gets flaky.. and constricts.. House built in 1960's. I have NO idea how old that pipe is, but I've had major slow drain issues and Liquid plumper doesn't help
[04:17:50] <Connor> and Snaking galvanized is almost impossible.
[04:18:06] <zeeshan|2> connor i dont see the prob?
[04:18:08] <Tom_itx> i redid my whole house
[04:18:09] <Connor> I have another sink on the other side.. but, that was part of my question.. WTF is there a P-Trape in the wall.
[04:18:10] <zeeshan|2> its all pipe thread
[04:18:16] <zeeshan|2> just work with pvc
[04:18:46] <Tom_itx> Connor is the P trap capped off?
[04:18:51] <Tom_itx> not used
[04:19:07] <Connor> No, that leads to the sink on the other side. Which has a Trap on it too.
[04:19:20] <zeeshan|2> dual p trap
[04:19:20] <zeeshan|2> nice
[04:19:23] <Connor> I'm thinking that was done because of venting.. but, it makes not sense to me..
[04:19:42] <Tom_itx> it would be easier to tap into it above that and replace that 6" piece of pipe and start there
[04:19:51] <Connor> except for, the sink on the other side is RARELY if EVEY (read NEVER) used.
[04:19:52] <Tom_itx> make the P trap plastic too
[04:20:32] <Connor> So maybe they did the Double trap to help with sewer gas?
[04:20:42] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[04:20:51] <Tom_itx> they probably didn't know it was there
[04:20:55] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, take motor off axis, you got a problem big enuf to look at closeley & well lit up. a small dc supply or battery and a bulb across brushes would show opens (no light) and shorts(brighter light) when rotated
[04:20:57] <zeeshan|2> http://images.meredith.com/diy/images/2009/02/p_SCP_214_03.jpg
[04:20:59] <zeeshan|2> this is how it is normally
[04:21:29] <Tom_itx> Connor if there's a trap on the other side, i'd get rid of that one
[04:21:29] <Connor> Yes. and it has a trap under the sink on the other side.. and you can see the vent too..
[04:21:40] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: sorry im a bit confused.
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[04:21:50] <Tom_itx> is that pipe vented at the top?
[04:21:50] <zeeshan|2> if i connect a small dc supply to the motor leads
[04:21:51] <zeeshan|2> itll spin
[04:21:56] <Connor> next question.. venting..
[04:22:03] <Tom_itx> you need it
[04:22:15] <skunksleep> Agreed
[04:22:16] <Connor> is the 2nd sink vented ?
[04:22:18] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, a 9 v batter wont turn a 1.2kW motor
[04:22:27] <zeeshan|2> okay so youre saying
[04:22:30] <zeeshan|2> connect the battery to the motor leads
[04:22:31] <Connor> or do I need to go up and over to the vent pipe
[04:22:32] <Tom_itx> the main pipe needs the vent
[04:22:32] <zeeshan|2> w/ the bulb
[04:22:35] <zeeshan|2> then manually turn it
[04:22:43] <zeeshan|2> and watch for shorts
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[04:22:54] <zeeshan|2> okay ill do that
[04:23:03] <Connor> PetefromTn_: My Kitchen http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/IMG_2281.JPG
[04:23:05] <Tom_itx> Connor, if that pipe vents thru the roof that should be enough
[04:23:09] <zeeshan|2> if i dont find anything.. then? :-)
[04:23:31] <PetefromTn_> looks like it's kinda missing a floor?
[04:23:33] <Connor> Well... it runs through the roof.. which is now covered... by the add on..
[04:23:42] <zeeshan|2> you guys have interestring houses thre
[04:23:45] <zeeshan|2> no basement is so weird :)
[04:23:47] <Connor> PetefromTn_: It was. Not now.. but talking about plumbing..
[04:23:59] <Tom_itx> covered?
[04:24:04] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, then the motor windings are as safe as you can determine with those tests, it aint absolute, its just what you can do
[04:24:05] <Tom_itx> it still vents though right?
[04:24:12] <Connor> Yes. Still vents
[04:24:22] <Tom_itx> if it floods it will spill over wherever it vents
[04:24:34] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: my only concern is when i move around the motor
[04:24:35] <Tom_itx> that's why it should go thru the roof
[04:24:37] <zeeshan|2> maybe the carbon moves around
[04:24:40] <zeeshan|2> and it might not short then :P
[04:24:48] <RyanS> so what do most of you see as the appeal of home cnc, the 'fun' and tech challenge of doing the conversion? Because I don't see it has that useful unless you are running multiple copies ofparts
[04:24:49] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uhiCQ0_Qqo THis is awesome...
[04:24:53] <Connor> I could put one of those back flow vent thingies on it.
[04:25:00] <Tom_itx> they seldom have that much back pressure though
[04:25:07] <Tom_itx> check valve
[04:25:09] <zeeshan|2> RyanS: how about making something complex?
[04:25:17] <Tom_itx> i had to put one of those above my kitchen sink
[04:25:18] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, you got loose brushes? take care of any obvious problem, then tackle whats left
[04:25:24] <Connor> that would have to have a hell of allot of back pressure to push it up 8' or more.
[04:25:32] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: if i open it
[04:25:34] <zeeshan|2> will it be obvious?
[04:25:37] <zeeshan|2> that something is wrong
[04:25:39] <Tom_itx> just saying, that's how it's done is all
[04:25:47] <Connor> I just don't understand the P trap in the wall.. never seen that before.
[04:25:51] <Tom_itx> not that it would ever realistically happen
[04:26:00] <Tom_itx> it doesn't need to be there
[04:26:09] <Tom_itx> somebody didn't see it and added another one
[04:26:29] <Connor> maybe they needed a 90 and that's all they had on the truck at the time... ?
[04:26:32] <Tom_itx> or maybe it was repurposed
[04:26:56] <Connor> Hmm.. Dishwasher maybe ?
[04:26:59] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, you know what a brush should look like? what the rotor should look like down the brush hole? lotsa web tutors and youtube vids on that stuff
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[04:27:04] <Tom_itx> cut that 6" section above the p trap and get rid of the trap
[04:27:13] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, no put down, just dunno your background
[04:27:15] <Tom_itx> start with plastic there
[04:27:18] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: does it look like an alterantor? :)
[04:27:23] <RyanS> zeesh, well , I don't know how accurate on a home machine
[04:27:33] <Connor> It's all coming out.. the only thing that'll stay is the vent pipe..
[04:27:42] <Tom_itx> ok
[04:27:50] <Tom_itx> well you don't need that p trap
[04:27:53] <zeeshan|2> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternators/UA/400A_Commutator.jpg
[04:27:56] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, not mine, my alternators aint brushed
[04:27:57] <zeeshan|2> this is what you find in an alternator
[04:27:58] <zeeshan|2> a small version
[04:28:08] <zeeshan|2> http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn164/sirepair/40AmpAltRebuild/P0005327.jpg
[04:28:11] <Connor> I was just trying to figure out If I need to run a vent over to the 2nd sink since it'll be below the primary.
[04:28:12] <zeeshan|2> better pic
[04:28:21] <Tom_itx> nope i don't think so
[04:28:27] <Tom_itx> not if that pipe is vented
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[04:29:07] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVGWiUq7RWU
[04:29:08] <Connor> So.. 90 degree off, into a Sane-T with another Sane-T above for the primary sink.
[04:29:37] <Tom_itx> or a a single cross
[04:29:42] <zeeshan|2> ah
[04:29:42] <Connor> I may have to 90 degree down and then 90 to right if I don't have enough clearance.
[04:29:46] <Tom_itx> the 2 Tee probably is a better approach
[04:30:14] <Tom_itx> you're supposed to use sweeping ell's too
[04:30:18] <Tom_itx> if there's room
[04:30:19] <Connor> the smaller sink is below, and brick wall on other side.. no way I'm going to try to raise it.
[04:30:33] <Connor> Hmm. okay.
[04:30:49] <Tom_itx> one place on mine.. there wasn't room for it
[04:30:50] <Connor> 2" Sweeping 90's are not that large.
[04:31:03] <Tom_itx> no but they take more room where the floor is
[04:31:09] <Tom_itx> it probably won't fit in there
[04:31:20] <zeeshan|2> man
[04:31:22] <zeeshan|2> they look simple inside
[04:31:24] <Tom_itx> wtf is that bent pipe going into the side under the floor?
[04:31:30] <zeeshan|2> a lot simpler than an alternator
[04:31:30] <zeeshan|2> lol
[04:31:33] <zeeshan|2> well almost the same
[04:31:53] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, last vid is correct. but lots of that can be done by inspection thru the brush slot. did you pull the rotor out already? i do not suggest that.
[04:31:58] <Connor> That's a rubber house with a saddle.. was for the damn Clothes Washer..
[04:32:05] <Connor> hose.. not house.
[04:32:21] <zeeshan|2> brush slot?
[04:32:24] <zeeshan|2> i havent taken it apart
[04:32:26] <Tom_itx> that goes away
[04:32:28] <zeeshan|2> im going to after i do that test
[04:32:31] <zeeshan|2> you suggested
[04:32:37] <Connor> Yup. Clothes washer has been moved.
[04:32:48] <Tom_itx> you need a P trap on that if it stays
[04:33:02] <Tom_itx> and pipe over to the washer and put it there
[04:33:25] <zeeshan|2> where is this brush slot!
[04:33:36] <Connor> Yea. It doesn't. Clothes washer in the 1/2 bath now.. (which is now just a laundry room)
[04:33:40] <tjtr33> under the brush cap
[04:33:48] <zeeshan|2> dont you have to pull the 4 bolts
[04:33:52] <zeeshan|2> and remove the front plate first?
[04:34:03] <Connor> I'll put that Y back in with a clean out... right at the wall..
[04:34:08] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, post pix of your motor
[04:34:12] <zeeshan|2> sec.
[04:34:13] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, there's under my house: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/7.jpg
[04:34:23] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: creepy
[04:34:31] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/11.jpg
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[04:34:35] <Tom_itx> it's all finished now
[04:35:27] <Connor> I'll need two Fernco couplers.. one for the PVC to galvanized for the vent.. and one for the connection to the main pipe.. which I don't have picture of..
[04:35:32] <Tom_itx> i dug it out with a shovel: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/2.jpg
[04:36:03] <Tom_itx> Connor, i just used rubber bands on my main one until i replaced the whole thing
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[04:36:24] <Connor> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fernco-2-in-x-2-in-DWV-Flexible-PVC-Coupling-P1056-22/100096490?quantity=2
[04:36:29] <Connor> Those ?
[04:36:31] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/drain2.jpg
[04:36:38] <Connor> That's a Fernco.
[04:36:56] * furrywolf flops over exhausted
[04:37:03] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, generic brusheddc motor http://www.designworldonline.com/uploads/Imagegallery/cutaway-view-of-a-typical-brushed-dc-motor.jpg
[04:37:04] <Tom_itx> mine had a metal band around it but yes
[04:38:24] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: the brush is in the back?
[04:38:30] <furrywolf> grrrr. and my internet is in the mood not to work tonight.
[04:38:32] <zeeshan|2> where would the pulley go in that motor
[04:38:36] <furrywolf> can't even check email.
[04:38:42] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: no explosions sir!
[04:38:47] <zeeshan|2> _yet_
[04:38:52] <furrywolf> what did you test?
[04:38:57] <zeeshan|2> hooked up control stuff
[04:39:04] <zeeshan|2> and ac in the enclosure
[04:39:07] <zeeshan|2> cycled it like 25 times
[04:39:07] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, the before and after: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/2.jpg http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/yard1.jpg
[04:39:08] <zeeshan|2> no blow ups
[04:39:21] <furrywolf> so you need to take the motor apart.
[04:39:23] <renesis> how come you guys dont have fences
[04:39:43] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7453/16459590891_bcb5133edb_b.jpg
[04:40:04] <Connor> Tom_itx: 2" PVC Right ?
[04:40:44] <furrywolf> pull the motor and run it on the bench like you said. do the light bulb and car battery test, while checking for voltage on the housing, tach, and brake wiring.
[04:41:04] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: tjtr33 suggested something a bit easier to do
[04:41:06] <zeeshan|2> hook up 12v
[04:41:09] <zeeshan|2> w/ bulb
[04:41:11] <zeeshan|2> and spin by hand
[04:41:16] <zeeshan|2> cause it wont turn , not enough voltage
[04:41:25] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzUwWDEwMDA=/$(KGrHqN,!rEFBkcUmdhTBQ,w9ZJmcg~~60_12.JPG?set_id=880000500F
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[04:41:30] <zeeshan|2> better pic of similar motor tjtr33
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[04:41:49] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/t/SIEMENS-DUBAI-STOCK-MOTOR1HU3-071-1HU3071-1-HU3071-0AF01-Z-1HU30710AF01Z-1HU1052-/00/s/NzUwWDEwMDA=/$T2eC16J,!)0E9s37F,2HBQ,w9,Vqh!~~60_57.JPG
[04:41:58] <Connor> I HATE plumbing
[04:42:00] <zeeshan|2> sigh @ link
[04:42:12] <furrywolf> spinning by hand works too.
[04:42:29] <zeeshan|2> i wanna take it apart
[04:42:30] <zeeshan|2> and clean the brushes
[04:42:32] <zeeshan|2> and commutator
[04:42:33] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, i dont think thats a brushed dc motor, lemme scroll back and see if you said that was true ( days!)
[04:42:34] <furrywolf> ... that's an ugly url.
[04:42:42] <furrywolf> don't take it apart until after testing
[04:42:47] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: its brushed dc
[04:42:54] <tjtr33> furrywolf, k
[04:43:13] <zeeshan|2> those things that look like you can put a flat head
[04:43:29] <zeeshan|2> is that the brush slot
[04:43:45] <zeeshan|2> theyre on the edges of the motor
[04:43:46] <furrywolf> you want to identify that there's a problem, rather than taking it apart, finding nothing wrong, cleaning it up, putting it back together, and not being sure you accomplished anything.
[04:43:57] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: internet says
[04:44:04] <zeeshan|2> that when carbon dust packs in commutator
[04:44:06] <XXCoder> amazing. http://phys.org/news/2015-02-d-printers-human-body.html
[04:44:09] <Tom_itx> Connor yes 2"
[04:44:11] <zeeshan|2> its #1 failure of pmdc motor
[04:44:13] <Tom_itx> on the main part
[04:44:17] <Connor> http://www.oldhouseweb.com/how-to-advice/replacing-galvanized-plumbing.shtml
[04:44:20] <zeeshan|2> so i figure it'd be good maintenance to do
[04:44:26] <Connor> and the reason for re-plumbing...
[04:44:27] <furrywolf> yes, but that doesn't tend to result in failure of the drive too. especially on a motor that's not turning.
[04:44:39] <zeeshan|2> what does it do?
[04:44:42] <zeeshan|2> erractic operation?
[04:44:43] <furrywolf> you really want to try to identify a problem before doing any work on it.
[04:44:50] <zeeshan|2> yea i know what youre saying
[04:44:54] <zeeshan|2> if its a problem with the windings
[04:44:55] <furrywolf> erratic operation, or simply doesn't run. no damage to controller.
[04:44:57] <zeeshan|2> theres no poijnt in cleaning the brushes
[04:45:21] <furrywolf> no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there's few things more frustrating than not knowing if you actually fixed anything or not.
[04:45:26] <zeeshan|2> :)
[04:45:32] <zeeshan|2> well its gOOD so far!!
[04:45:34] <zeeshan|2> and im happy!
[04:45:42] <zeeshan|2> i was so aggressive on the power cycle too
[04:45:50] <zeeshan|2> i rapidly switched them on and off
[04:45:52] <zeeshan|2> like a machine gun
[04:45:52] <zeeshan|2> abuse
[04:45:56] <furrywolf> you really want to be able to say it was blowing because THIS was happening.
[04:45:58] <XXCoder> you found the cause?
[04:46:00] <zeeshan|2> i varied the time
[04:46:14] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: likely its something to do with moving from l2 to l1 for supply
[04:46:18] <zeeshan|2> or they were bad drives to begin with
[04:46:21] <zeeshan|2> or its the motor
[04:46:23] <zeeshan|2> trying to narrow it down
[04:46:29] <XXCoder> ok
[04:46:50] <zeeshan|2> if it was just a capacitor failure
[04:46:54] <zeeshan|2> that caused all this damage to the drive
[04:46:56] <zeeshan|2> im gonna be so mad
[04:47:08] <furrywolf> ... THREE drives. they don't all have bad capacitors.
[04:47:14] <zeeshan|2> who knows why the guy sold em!
[04:47:15] <zeeshan|2> :P
[04:47:34] <zeeshan|2> im trying to be optimistic :)
[04:47:40] <furrywolf> I find it pretty unlikely that carbon buildup is the problem.
[04:47:50] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 were they guaranteed working?
[04:47:53] <furrywolf> if it blew while operating, maybe, but not disabled...
[04:48:06] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: yea machine was used till the last day
[04:48:10] <zeeshan|2> till he closed shop
[04:48:12] <zeeshan|2> then it sat for 5 years
[04:48:24] <Tom_itx> maybe some of the caps dried out
[04:48:30] <Tom_itx> electrolytics will do that
[04:48:35] <zeeshan|2> oh therse drives arent from the same machine
[04:48:40] <Tom_itx> mkay
[04:48:51] <zeeshan|2> but i was saying earlier that amc said theyre 15 years old
[04:48:52] <Tom_itx> i was referring to the drives
[04:49:05] <zeeshan|2> and y es they said they're in working condition
[04:49:12] <zeeshan|2> but the guy doesnt exist on ebay anymore
[04:49:20] <zeeshan|2> closed his account
[04:49:23] <furrywolf> yes, you had three bad drives, all with the exact same latent defect, and by coincidence happened to be the three you plugged into Z, right?
[04:49:25] <zeeshan|2> which is fishy.
[04:49:30] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 wonder why?
[04:50:01] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: to be honest with you
[04:50:08] <zeeshan|2> all 3 drives showed explicit cap damage
[04:50:29] <zeeshan|2> okay less arguing
[04:50:32] <zeeshan|2> more work
[04:50:38] <tjtr33> furrywolf, i was asking zee to check for shorts, using a battery across brushes and a light or ohmmeter. thats why we were looking at brush caps
[04:50:41] <furrywolf> go pull motor
[04:50:55] <zeeshan|2> where are the brush caps!! :P
[04:51:09] <furrywolf> tjtr: yes, I was the one who originally suggested running it off 12v with a light bulb in series.
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[04:51:25] <tjtr33> i think the big straight slot screws on the corners of the motor's finned end
[04:51:29] <furrywolf> zeeshan: the brush caps are the screw in things with a slotted screwdriver slot
[04:51:42] <furrywolf> but, again, I would really advise against doing ANY work on the motor before doing more testing.
[04:51:46] <zeeshan|2> yes
[04:51:47] <zeeshan|2> i wont
[04:51:59] <zeeshan|2> its gonna take me some time to pull this out
[04:52:02] <zeeshan|2> shit is burried in the back
[04:52:06] <furrywolf> you want to know that there was a problem, rather than putting it back together and having no idea what was wrong, if anything...
[04:52:07] <zeeshan|2> it was hard enough to take a pic
[04:52:16] <tjtr33> zee no need ot go into brushes if you can do same from the 5 pin connector
[04:52:16] <zeeshan|2> yes
[04:52:44] <zeeshan|2> thanks guys,, ill be back
[04:52:56] <furrywolf> also, you might need a larger lightbulb. you want enough current that a good portion of the voltage drop is across the motor, not the bulb.
[04:53:17] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 unplug the interweb during testing... so you can come back
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[04:53:51] <tjtr33> furrywolf, why not inspect the brushes when its out? thats not invasive, thats minimal maintainance
[04:54:08] <furrywolf> tjtr: oh, if he doesn't find a problem, he should definitely do so.
[04:54:26] <furrywolf> but if the problem is poor brush contact, you want to know that, not put it back together and have no idea if you actually fixed anything or not.
[04:57:14] <tjtr33> poor knas left and didnt get answered, he's fell right off my scroll back buffer theres so much zeeshan in here.
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[05:04:09] <tjtr33> i wrung out the matrixes to tilt the XY plane with a new kinematics. the realized that 1mm of 'X' travel would be only 400 microns, so i loose resolution as soon as I tip the working plane :(
[05:04:10] <EO_> I have a g-code that doesn't show any soft-limit violations in the linuxcnc bounding box, but when I try to mill it, it complains about Z axis limits being exceeded
[05:04:16] <EO_> I'm totally confused :(
[05:04:49] <XXCoder> you sure physical z limits is larger than soft z limits?
[05:04:51] <EO_> http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-1.png <-- here's the screenshot of the error
[05:05:24] <EO_> XXCoder: where does one define physical Z limits?
[05:05:45] <XXCoder> hmm doesn't it find em and store values for em?
[05:06:20] <XXCoder> unless you has no switches to detect physical limit
[05:06:24] <tjtr33> E0_ line 6 uses corrd system G53, check there
[05:06:33] <EO_> I do manual homing
[05:06:48] <XXCoder> okay end of my help tj probably can do more
[05:07:09] <tjtr33> Z0 in G53 may be out of your motion ability
[05:07:25] <EO_> G53 is the machine native coordinate system right?
[05:08:25] <tjtr33> yes, switch the display to 'machine coordinates' and look at the numbers ( where you are now, and imagine where Z0 would take you )
[05:08:42] <EO_> isn't Z0 gonna be the homed position?
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[05:09:56] <tjtr33> not necesarily, switch using VIEW | Show machine position (if you're using AXIS gui )
[05:10:07] * furrywolf seriously needs to make a phone OS named gynoid
[05:10:33] <tjtr33> furrywolf wants to be a gynoidoligist
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[05:10:42] <EO_> Z shows -13 right now
[05:10:49] <EO_> (in machine coords)
[05:10:49] <furrywolf> android is sexist. :P
[05:11:17] <PetefromTn_andro> Chicka..da...China. da Chinese chicken......
[05:11:25] <XXCoder> how so?
[05:11:51] <EO_> http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-2.png <-- machine coordinates
[05:12:05] <EO_> no extents are marked in red
[05:12:44] <PetefromTn_andro> Isn't that cool..
[05:14:12] <tjtr33> EO_, and if you moved towards Z0? , try it, move 1 inch closer in jog while in machine coord display, then imagine if its ok to move all the way to Z0. would that take you outside the red box?
[05:14:29] <EO_> http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-3.png <-- DRO screen. Is TLO Z gonna cause problems?
[05:14:55] <tjtr33> i keep trying to rotate your screenshot to see where the bounds are :)
[05:15:04] <EO_> tjtr33: haha
[05:15:06] <PetefromTn_andro> Hehe
[05:15:15] <EO_> tjtr33: anyway, I moved Z to "-0.000". My units are mm.
[05:15:29] <PetefromTn_andro> What's the problem what are we working on tonight?
[05:16:03] * EO_ is trying to just cut out a plate, but having Z limit errors
[05:16:12] <furrywolf> the problem I'm working on is how to get anything useful done when I'm exhausted all the time from work.
[05:16:18] <furrywolf> my mill should be finished by now.
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[05:16:47] <EO_> tjtr33: with physical Z @ 0 (homed) G54 Z is showing -28.384
[05:16:51] <tjtr33> PetefromTn_andro, if you dont have scrollback enuf, use Michaels excellent logs http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2015-02-07.html
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[05:17:18] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah well I am a lazyass I guess hehe
[05:17:27] <tjtr33> EO_, yes i see that, , the math isnt working in my head right now, sorry
[05:17:51] <EO_> something's funky
[05:17:59] <EO_> G54 Z isn't updating in line with machine Z
[05:18:01] <EO_> on the DRO screen
[05:18:10] <EO_> (as I jog Z)
[05:18:45] <tjtr33> force refresh? leave that display & come back?
[05:19:24] <PetefromTn_andro> Does it usually I never really go to the dro page
[05:19:35] <EO_> switching to 3D and abck to DRO still has G54 Z stuck @ -24.379...wtf...it moved 4 mm from last time I reported and now it's just...stuck there
[05:20:16] <tjtr33> swx to relative, then back to machine
[05:20:22] <tjtr33> \same?
[05:20:32] <PetefromTn_andro> Do you have to be in G54 for the dro page to show movement:
[05:20:33] <EO_> no chaneg
[05:20:41] <tjtr33> i try here
[05:20:49] <EO_> AXIS 2.5.0 here btw
[05:21:06] <PetefromTn_andro> I'm in bed or I would try to see on my machine..
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[05:22:07] <Cromaglious> Only certain radio shacks are clearance stores
[05:22:33] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[05:22:51] <Cromaglious> Nite nite
[05:23:40] <tjtr33> EO_, i cant debug for my my cfg is weird kins and i got a bug, sorry
[05:24:04] <PetefromTn_andro> So you see z limit errors when you load a program
[05:24:17] <tjtr33> that mine acted strange doing wht you tried is not good science... my fg is experimental
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[05:27:10] <tjtr33> but the numbers... if you are at machine Z-28.394 AND Z0 relative, and want to move to Z 12" relative, thatd be Z-14.394 right? is that reasonable (you built it ! :)
[05:27:50] <EO_> all these are in mm, not inches
[05:27:55] <EO_> the Z travel is 80mm
[05:28:07] <EO_> MIN_LIMIT = -80.0
[05:28:07] <EO_> MAX_LIMIT = 0.0
[05:28:22] <EO_> I have it homed @ top of Z travel, and define that as 0
[05:28:28] <EO_> then -80 is bottom of travel
[05:28:29] <tjtr33> uh, 80mm is like 3 inches, you aint goin 12" from here, no way
[05:28:46] <EO_> why do you keep referring to inches? :)
[05:28:53] <EO_> this is all mm
[05:28:58] <tjtr33> sorry
[05:29:05] <tjtr33> looking at your dro
[05:29:30] <tjtr33> sorry MY dro has 4 decimal doh!
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[05:32:07] <EO_> besides, wouldn't exceeded limits be shown as red markers in axis?
[05:32:24] <EO_> the only weird thing I can think of is that tool offset
[05:32:32] <EO_> but it's only 0.511 (inches of all things!)
[05:32:37] <EO_> perhaps this g-code is using inches?
[05:32:38] <PetefromTn_andro> Do you have a tool Length offset loaded
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[05:33:11] <EO_> but there's the G21
[05:33:14] <EO_> right on line 5
[05:33:37] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: well, DRO is reporting TLO Z as 0.511, so apparently yes?
[05:34:27] <PetefromTn_andro> Sorry I am trying to look at it on my smartphone and switch back and forth
[05:34:57] <EO_> I could post the G if that'd be helpful
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[05:35:24] <EO_> it's just a 1/2" deep step cut of a plate
[05:35:53] <tjtr33> or 12.7mm ;)
[05:35:58] <EO_> yes
[05:36:50] <EO_> ok weird. I just noticed the status bar. "Tool 1, offset 0.511, diameter 0.125"
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[05:37:12] <PetefromTn_andro> Maybe try retouching the tool to the work surface and reset g54 z
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[05:37:26] <EO_> I might have mis-dimensioned the tool, so it came out way smaller than reality
[05:37:46] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah I saw that and you have 3.75 or something in the code
[05:37:54] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: I've done so many Z-touches today. I get different types of Z limit errors depending on depth of touchoff.
[05:38:39] <tjtr33> you can roll the camera view to see the side view of red boundry box, do you see your position close to the bounds? ( TLO Z is only .5mm if tool table is mm )
[05:38:56] <PetefromTn_andro> How are you measuring you tool lengths
[05:39:08] <zeeshan|2> video coming up
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[05:40:14] <zeeshan|2> damn you youtube
[05:40:16] <zeeshan|2> process faster
[05:40:22] <PetefromTn_andro> I'm assuming it's a little cnc router table or something right
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[05:41:06] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 i think i found something that will work on my driver
[05:41:10] <zeeshan|2> what?
[05:41:20] <EO_> lemme fix up this tool in the CAM software
[05:41:27] <EO_> it's so small it's not visible right now
[05:41:29] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QQfT-neTz0
[05:41:30] <EO_> (0.125mm!)
[05:41:36] <atom1> KB ELECTRONICS SIGNAL ISOLATOR KBSI-240D
[05:41:38] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: looks normal no?
[05:41:41] <atom1> one of those
[05:42:52] <EO_> http://i.imgur.com/RdJchTZ.png <-- nope, tool's defined properly...but it got loaded in mm vs inches?!
[05:44:10] <RyanS> would you dare lift this with a mobile engine crane? http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L682D
[05:44:19] <zeeshan|2> tom what are you trying to do?
[05:44:23] <zeeshan|2> isolate what from what
[05:44:32] <Tom_itx> connect the 10v DAC to the driver
[05:44:41] <Tom_itx> without it shorting things out
[05:44:46] <zeeshan|2> DAC?
[05:44:53] <Tom_itx> the analog 0-10v
[05:44:53] <zeeshan|2> from mesa ?
[05:44:53] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, looks normal to me, but the blink on fast turns, i'm still thinking about. maybe just crappy test connections.
[05:44:55] <zeeshan|2> okay
[05:44:55] <roycroft> ruans: yes
[05:45:03] <Tom_itx> from mesa or the board you sent me
[05:45:07] <roycroft> ryans, rather
[05:45:11] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: im thinking by me turning it faster
[05:45:17] <zeeshan|2> the motor is becoming a generator
[05:45:22] <zeeshan|2> and starting to charge the battery its hooked up to
[05:45:33] <zeeshan|2> er
[05:45:35] <zeeshan|2> that doesnt make sense
[05:45:41] <EO_> Where are machine limits defined vs. soft limits? All I know of are the MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT under each AXIS_n in INI
[05:45:43] <zeeshan|2> it'd be like 2 voltage sources with a load between them
[05:46:09] <atom1> zeeshan|2, i think that would allow it to work
[05:46:23] <zeeshan|2> why cant you connect it directly tom
[05:46:26] <atom1> since the GND is floating ont he driver
[05:46:46] <atom1> because the GND is 66v above frame GND on my control
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[05:47:04] <PetefromTn_andro> Ryan I have moved a 12x36 several times with my engine crane
[05:47:05] <atom1> i need an isolated link between them
[05:47:14] <atom1> that's what this board does
[05:47:24] <zeeshan|2> you can move that with a crane easily
[05:47:32] <Crom_> well coming in from my phone didn't work so good
[05:47:34] <zeeshan|2> you just have to be damn careful you center the straps correctly
[05:47:35] <PetefromTn_andro> On the stand and off of it.
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[05:47:54] <zeeshan|2> or you can use a load balancer.
[05:47:56] <zeeshan|2> to help you out
[05:47:58] <tjtr33> EO_, the soft linits are defined in ini file, the hard limits are not defined, they exist but have no record in files. the soft limits simply should be inside the hard limits.
[05:48:04] <RyanS> how many slings?
[05:48:07] <roycroft> two slings
[05:48:16] <Crom_> ugh lemme go kill my phone
[05:48:18] <zeeshan|2> honestly ive done it with 1 sling too
[05:48:22] <zeeshan|2> but you have the center the load correctly.
[05:48:27] <PetefromTn_andro> I wrapped a large web strap around the bed and used the carriage to adjust the weight balance
[05:48:29] <zeeshan|2> its dangerous though.
[05:48:32] <roycroft> and the instructions should show you where to put the slings, and where to put the carriage
[05:48:47] <EO_> tjtr33: how do they exist without definition?
[05:48:54] <roycroft> if not, download the manual for any other 12x36 and it will tell you
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[05:49:20] <zeeshan|2> theres a bolt for the tail stock from falling off
[05:49:25] <zeeshan|2> ive mounted a chain there before
[05:49:39] <zeeshan|2> and theres a another m10 or m12 threaded hole ne ar the spindle
[05:49:40] <PetefromTn_andro> Just moved my new cnc lathe...a14x40 across the shop by myself the same way
[05:49:41] <zeeshan|2> towars the bottom
[05:49:43] <zeeshan|2> i used a chain there too
[05:49:53] <EO_> tjtr33: If you look at Screenshot-1, it shows 2 different types of limit errors. I suspect one is for soft (since it says soft) and the other is for hard limit? But I dunno...
[05:50:10] <RyanS> and do you need a bar or just the one hook on the crane?
[05:50:43] <tjtr33> EO_, they exist in space, and in between them is the home position, once home is referenced the soft limits keep you from touching the hard limits. so they exist, without any numeric representation in the machine config.
[05:50:44] <zeeshan|2> http://images.wiltec.info/50/50798/50798.jpg
[05:51:20] <EO_> tjtr33: oh, ok. so it's a concept I needn't worry about in the software.
[05:51:33] <tjtr33> yes
[05:51:46] <EO_> tjtr33: So given the software only knows about soft limits, what's the deal with the different messages? http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-1.png <-- lower right
[05:51:57] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: i guess this motor is ok? :)
[05:52:02] <EO_> tjtr33: those 2 messages were generated by me touching off Z at different heights
[05:52:36] <zeeshan|2> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/lathe/lathe.jpg
[05:52:39] <zeeshan|2> thats my buddy
[05:52:43] <zeeshan|2> but thats where imounted the strap
[05:53:25] <zeeshan|2> you just gotta balance the load with your hand
[05:53:27] <XXCoder> engine lift. genius
[05:53:28] <zeeshan|2> so it doesnt slide down
[05:53:31] <tjtr33> EO_, simplify your program to just the lines in sreentshot, then remove the ToolLenght and eliminate it as the cause.
[05:54:01] <Crom_> is that a Myford?
[05:54:02] <EO_> tjtr33: how do I eliminate the tool length? I don't see anywhere in the code where it's defined. I think it got pulled in by a pervious g-code file I had opened?
[05:54:10] <zeeshan|2> no 12x36 china import
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[05:54:18] <PetefromTn_andro> Well the first message shows that you actually hit the limit. You can select a different view and see if the yellow lines your cutter path made go below the red boundary
[05:54:45] <PetefromTn_andro> Open the tool table editor
[05:55:07] <PetefromTn_andro> Select the tool and delete all the entries
[05:55:11] <Crom_> hmm all my lathe pictures are on Yahoo groups sheldon lathes
[05:55:11] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: wait, hit or exceeded? if you home @ 0,0,0 are you not allowed to go to 0,0,0 in code?
[05:55:16] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, yes the motor looks ok to me, you should be able to make it turn with a car battery, no tacho connection, no other connection
[05:55:20] <PetefromTn_andro> Then hit save
[05:55:28] <RyanS> zeesh wow that is the centre of mass
[05:55:35] <zeeshan|2> ryan yea approx
[05:55:46] <zeeshan|2> you'll find it hwen you lift it
[05:55:56] <zeeshan|2> if you dont have straps
[05:55:59] <zeeshan|2> you can use seat belts
[05:56:00] <zeeshan|2> :)
[05:56:07] <PetefromTn_andro> Make sure you click reload the tool table to ensure it takes effect
[05:56:19] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: i put money on this
[05:56:22] <zeeshan|2> that asap i hook up drive
[05:56:28] <zeeshan|2> hook up motor to drive
[05:56:30] <zeeshan|2> itll blow up the drive lol
[05:56:51] <RyanS> Why is there a bar in the chuck?
[05:56:57] <zeeshan|2> no idea
[05:56:59] <zeeshan|2> came with the lathe
[05:57:00] <zeeshan|2> lol
[05:57:00] <PetefromTn_andro> Where is your home position on the z axis
[05:57:13] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, i think this should work ok: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/kbsi_240d_manual.pdf
[05:57:37] <zeeshan|2> tom how much is that
[05:57:46] <Tom_itx> depends
[05:57:50] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: k, I deleted all the tools except #9999, saved the tool table, and told it to reload the tool table. I still have tool 1, with the same offset :/
[05:57:52] <Tom_itx> 20-100 ebay
[05:58:25] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna try it
[05:58:27] <witnit_> im just using a really poor mini laptop for testing and setting up my hm2_eth card, however its constantly tripping the watchdog, how do i disable the watchdog?
[05:58:31] <PetefromTn_andro> No I didn't mean to delete all the tools just the one you are using
[05:58:33] <zeeshan|2> buy a be25a20ac drive
[05:58:36] <zeeshan|2> and ditch this all! :P
[05:58:45] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: that's fine, all the other tools were nonsense.
[05:58:49] <Tom_itx> you're down on those... remember?
[05:58:50] <tjtr33> EO_, i agree you didnt load the tool, and didnt get to that line yet, tool lenght should not be your problem.
[05:58:56] <zeeshan|2> haha Tom_itx
[05:59:04] <PetefromTn_andro> You might have to open the editor and do it in the editor
[05:59:06] <XXCoder> wonder if tool zero setting would cause this error to happen
[05:59:19] <XXCoder> I know I once ruined one part by that lol
[05:59:27] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 can i limit the voltage for the 90v dc motor with one of those?
[05:59:39] <zeeshan|2> oh i forgot about that
[05:59:40] <zeeshan|2> sorry
[05:59:41] <zeeshan|2> :P
[05:59:56] <EO_> tjtr33: btw, any idea what "exceeded positive limit" means on an axis that's define MIN_LIMIT=-80, MAX_LIMIT=0 ? is that trying to go to +2 or something?
[06:00:18] <witnit_> the limit is 0, and your are going to 2
[06:00:25] <witnit_> try putting the limit at 5
[06:00:38] <EO_> line 6 is actually trying to go to Z0
[06:00:58] <EO_> but it was just an example..cuz I have my "minimum" Z at the top of Z travel
[06:01:04] <EO_> whereas normally Z goes positiev the higher you go
[06:01:12] <EO_> so I'm not sure what "positive limit" is referring to in the message
[06:01:20] <PetefromTn_andro> Did you get the errors when you're touching off or when you loaded the program
[06:01:28] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/VaveMWp.jpg
[06:01:37] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/w0lWBe9.jpg << takes up a little bit of desk space but worth it
[06:01:52] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: It's when I try to run the program, after touching off.
[06:02:24] <witnit_> what line is causing the error?
[06:02:31] <EO_> witnit_: line 6
[06:02:37] <witnit_> what is on line 6?
[06:02:46] <EO_> http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-1.png <-- it's all visible here
[06:03:35] <witnit_> contour action is forcing you beyond your limit?
[06:03:51] <EO_> I just tried the command in MDI
[06:04:00] <witnit_> like trajectory is calling for excess of 0?
[06:04:03] <EO_> "G53 G0 Z0." <-- causing the same "positive limit" error
[06:04:15] <tjtr33> EO_, gotta do the math, line 6 moves to Z0 in machine coords, you are at -26mm (machine cords right now and Z0 in relativeright now ). so +12mm from where you are now is -14mm in machine coords,
[06:04:26] <tjtr33> which sounds fine to me, but not to linuxcnc
[06:04:31] <tjtr33> thats the quandry
[06:04:40] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: think i should take the motor apart
[06:04:45] <zeeshan|2> and clean the commutator
[06:05:14] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, cleaning is good, cleaning is basic, cleaning is what the interweb sez is the most common fault
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[06:05:22] <zeeshan|2> yea
[06:05:24] <EO_> tjtr33: I see the problem, hold on
[06:05:44] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: have you taken one apart?
[06:05:52] <EO_> tjtr33: http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-4.png <-- check out my MDI commands. the last 2 product the errors shown!
[06:05:55] <tjtr33> zee lotsa starter motors
[06:06:09] <zeeshan|2> the only thing im confused about is
[06:06:12] <zeeshan|2> do you remove the brushes first
[06:06:15] <zeeshan|2> and then disassemble?
[06:06:20] <zeeshan|2> cause otherwise the brushes will just fall in
[06:06:22] <EO_> So I can move to Z-0.001, but not Z0
[06:06:34] <EO_> But I sure as hell can JOG to Z0
[06:06:39] <EO_> Just not G-code to Z0
[06:06:45] <witnit_> just move your limits
[06:06:49] <witnit_> unless they must be there
[06:06:59] <PetefromTn_andro> I had something like that happened on my vmc
[06:07:08] <tjtr33> like move em 1um
[06:07:15] <witnit_> are you out of travel Z1?
[06:07:15] <EO_> this is a fine idea
[06:07:20] <tjtr33> dang i ran into that one too
[06:07:23] <EO_> MAX_LIMIT=0.001
[06:07:31] <tjtr33> sorry i didnt remember
[06:07:40] <EO_> you have no idea how many hours...
[06:07:49] <EO_> Before I came crawling in here
[06:08:11] <witnit_> you were a thousandths off
[06:08:14] <witnit_> lull
[06:08:16] <EO_> It doesn't happen on conventionally defined axis, btw
[06:08:22] <EO_> MIN_LIMIT=0.0, you can totally G-code to
[06:08:26] <EO_> just affects MAX_LIMIT=0.0
[06:08:43] <EO_> perhaps a bug should be filed?
[06:08:44] <tjtr33> zee remove the brushes first, they sometimes undercut on the rotor and will hang it from coming out
[06:08:59] <zeeshan|2> ah okay
[06:09:14] <zeeshan|2> this will be a good learning exp
[06:09:15] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[06:09:31] <zeeshan|2> i actually wanna see how the brake works too
[06:09:32] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, but dont tear it apart untill you just cleam and peek down into the brosh holes with light. just look first
[06:09:39] <zeeshan|2> ok good idea
[06:09:46] <zeeshan|2> just gotta take one brush out
[06:09:47] <zeeshan|2> and see
[06:09:51] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, so the 2 wire connecotr is brake?
[06:09:52] <PetefromTn_andro> It's a good idea to mark the orientation of the brushes when you remove them
[06:10:01] <zeeshan|2> tjb1: no its part of 5 pin
[06:10:07] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_andro: yes
[06:10:23] <zeeshan|2> 5 pin = motor +, -, brake +,-, earth
[06:10:37] <zeeshan|2> tach 4 pin conn = tach + , tach -
[06:10:40] <zeeshan|2> 2 pins empty
[06:11:18] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, brushes wear in , so dont put wrong ones in wrong holders, and not the direction they have cuved bottom, and not the spring length, on shorter one will not be making good contact....
[06:12:00] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, ok so 5 pins for motor & brake & gnd, and the other 2 pin cnx is for tacho?
[06:12:15] <tjtr33> note the direction...
[06:12:18] <witnit_> thats a good find EO_ you may want to bring it up to -dev
[06:13:06] <witnit_> so you could g53 to min, but not max
[06:13:54] <PetefromTn_andro> Well goodnight
[06:14:01] * EO_ is trying to verify
[06:14:11] <tjtr33> me too gnite all
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[06:15:36] <EO_> tool table POC?
[06:15:38] <EO_> what is that
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[06:19:16] <EO_> jibbers crabst. That was totally it. Moving MAX_LIMIT to 0.001 (1 micron!) made the software happy.
[06:21:03] <Crom_> my dirty Sheldon named Sheldon http://postimg.org/gallery/1kdwpk72c/
[06:21:36] <XXCoder> EO_: so max_limit cannot be 0?
[06:22:37] <EO_> XXCoder: not if you expect to move to Z0 in G-code.
[06:22:57] <XXCoder> strange, whats chances of someone finding that bug
[06:23:00] <XXCoder> nice work
[06:23:40] <EO_> somewhere in the thousands of lines of code there's a < wishing it could be a <=
[06:23:48] <XXCoder> lol
[06:24:23] <XXCoder> heh reminds me of 8 hours debugging my code, it ended up lack of object->pointer = NULL; on init
[06:24:38] <XXCoder> bug was almost impossible to find, only one strange case exposed it
[06:25:01] <EO_> but you gotta figure other people define the top of their Z axis as 0, no/
[06:25:09] <EO_> cuz it's so handy to just say G0X0Y0Z0
[06:25:16] <XXCoder> indeed
[06:26:53] <zeeshan|2> lol
[06:26:56] <zeeshan|2> this motor has been rebuilt
[06:27:04] <zeeshan|2> i can see markings on it where they center punched it
[06:27:13] <zeeshan|2> commutator is clean
[06:27:21] <XXCoder> you sure its not mark from when built new?
[06:27:26] <zeeshan|2> yea dead sure
[06:27:28] <zeeshan|2> i just saw a tag on there too
[06:27:31] <XXCoder> ok
[06:29:35] <Crom_> my table is currently left front corner at the table is g0x0y0z-0.001
[06:30:07] <zeeshan|2> http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/Stacker22/Motorlayout.jpg
[06:30:10] <zeeshan|2> my commutator looks like that
[06:30:33] <Crom_> zeeshan|2, get any MOV's yet? hehehe
[06:30:38] <zeeshan|2> haha no
[06:30:45] <zeeshan|2> i went to the store
[06:30:48] <zeeshan|2> they said "Crom bought them all"
[06:30:53] <zeeshan|2> :)
[06:31:22] <zeeshan|2> so motor is good
[06:31:30] <zeeshan|2> 2 conclusions:
[06:31:31] <Crom_> not lately.. I still have 1/2 a twinnings tea can full of 300v ones
[06:31:37] <zeeshan|2> l2 -> l1 fixed it
[06:32:27] <Crom_> ahhh controller was on l1 and the drivers were on l2?
[06:32:34] <zeeshan|2> nah z drive was on l2
[06:32:38] <zeeshan|2> i moved it to l1
[06:32:43] <zeeshan|2> where all the x and y drives are getting power from
[06:32:58] <Tom_itx> so you found a problem?
[06:33:06] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: nahh man
[06:33:08] <zeeshan|2> no problem w/ motor
[06:33:19] <Tom_itx> so you found a solution?
[06:33:19] <zeeshan|2> im glad these guys told me to inspect through brush slot
[06:33:23] <zeeshan|2> no not really yet man
[06:33:27] <zeeshan|2> only thing left is to hook up the motor
[06:33:29] <zeeshan|2> and cross my fingers
[06:34:14] <Tom_itx> was there an issue with l2?
[06:34:22] <zeeshan|2> honestly idont know
[06:34:27] <zeeshan|2> i rewired to l1
[06:34:28] <Tom_itx> what is l2?
[06:34:29] <zeeshan|2> didnt wanna take a chance
[06:34:41] <zeeshan|2> l1 and l2 are legs of the 240vac
[06:34:42] <zeeshan|2> split phased
[06:34:46] <Tom_itx> mmm
[06:34:54] <Crom_> z power leg was coming from other leg, so potencial between the motor and the controller was 240v...
[06:34:58] <Tom_itx> phase inverted from what you need?
[06:35:22] <Tom_itx> i parallel'd my transformers and had to be sure the phase was correct
[06:35:28] <zeeshan|2> crom not necessarily
[06:35:30] <Crom_> potential
[06:35:30] <zeeshan|2> l2 to n
[06:35:32] <zeeshan|2> is 120vac
[06:35:34] <Tom_itx> they get angry when they're not in phase
[06:35:51] <Crom_> l1 to l2 is 240v
[06:35:58] <zeeshan|2> crom yes
[06:36:04] <zeeshan|2> but i had l2 and n connected to drive
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[06:36:18] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: you make a good point
[06:36:20] <Tom_itx> well i dunno what you're up to but good luck
[06:36:22] <zeeshan|2> the phases are 120 degrees apart
[06:36:24] <zeeshan|2> er
[06:36:29] <Tom_itx> i'm pooped
[06:36:30] <Tom_itx> gnite
[06:36:30] <zeeshan|2> 180 degrees
[06:36:32] <zeeshan|2> nitre
[06:36:47] <Tom_itx> my xformers got quite angry when the phase was out
[06:38:30] <Crom_> zeeshan|2, depends... some are 120 out if off a 3ph supply without going thru a transformer, others are off a single phase transformer so are 180 degrees out..
[06:38:39] <Tom_itx> i think i got my inhibit code ready too
[06:38:42] <zeeshan|2> yea i have single phase
[06:38:46] <zeeshan|2> tom sleep
[06:38:46] <zeeshan|2> lol
[06:38:52] <Tom_itx> so it resets when i reverse direction
[06:38:54] <zeeshan|2> no more thinking
[06:38:55] <EO_> alright, swarf is flyin!
[06:39:07] <Tom_itx> thinking is over.. just reflecting now
[06:39:24] <Tom_itx> i've written some of my best code at 3am
[06:40:21] <Crom_> zeeshan|2, "single phase" is actually 2 phases on 240v service or "1 phase" 2 of 3 in 208 service
[06:40:43] <zeeshan|2> im just trying to wrap this around my head
[06:40:52] <zeeshan|2> if you have 2 loads on l1 - n
[06:40:53] <zeeshan|2> l2 - n
[06:40:54] <Crom_> it gets fun working as electrician at oil refinery
[06:41:03] <zeeshan|2> and the l1 - n load switches first
[06:41:03] <Tom_itx> that's also where the idea of load balancing comes into play
[06:41:06] <zeeshan|2> before l2 - n.
[06:41:18] <zeeshan|2> i wonder what the neutral voltage is
[06:41:23] <zeeshan|2> it should always be 0
[06:41:34] <zeeshan|2> but if you have a load imbaalance, then it has voltage
[06:41:35] <Tom_itx> don't expect it to be
[06:41:40] <Tom_itx> i found that out tonight
[06:41:42] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[06:41:50] <Tom_itx> check it
[06:42:15] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 i got one of those boards coming to try
[06:42:20] <zeeshan|2> nice
[06:42:26] <zeeshan|2> it should work out
[06:42:35] <Tom_itx> i'm determined to make this work
[06:42:52] <Tom_itx> or know why not
[06:45:02] <Crom_> checkout the hardware on this DMX board for zero crossing drivers. "http://www.hoelscher-hi.de/hendrik/english/dimmer.htm#zc detection"
[06:45:47] <Crom_> from the web page: This zero crossing detection is needed for syncing a microcontroller with the mains. The more precise the circuit works, the better is the resolution of the dimmer pack. Because of this, I tested lots of such devices...
[06:46:37] <Crom_> I also do theatrical lighting and sound as well
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[06:47:04] <Crom_> MOV's definately required on that equipment!
[06:47:29] <Crom_> 1 light costs $400 a dimmer pack $120
[06:47:42] <Crom_> if they don't have them they get added
[06:48:14] <RyanS> not too rigid... http://conradhoffman.com/ballturner.htm
[06:50:28] <Crom_> though it does fit on a qctp
[06:50:51] <RyanS> Probably can't do steel
[06:54:17] tristate is now known as toxx
[06:54:52] <Crom_> it could definitely do mild steel slowly..
[06:56:25] <Crom_> but most balls I'd be cutting would be AL, copper, brass, or bronze
[06:57:28] <Crom_> really needs a way to lock the cutter to parallel with the bed for setting height.
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[07:05:52] <Crom_> anyone running a mini-box.com LCD 20x2 on their machine
[07:08:06] <renesis> 09:21:10 < furrywolf> the problem I'm working on is how to get anything useful done when I'm exhausted all the time from work.
[07:08:14] <renesis> yeah real life sucks
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[07:20:23] <anonimasu> morning
[07:21:13] <Crom_> evening anonimasu
[07:22:55] <anonimasu> today'swork.. finish up the plassmam wiring. all of it :)
[07:28:11] <anonimasu> I wonder if I should suck it up and add a probing head too while im at it
[07:31:15] <Crom_> anonimasu, totally dude! vinland.com
[07:31:38] <Crom_> in his project page he has a nice probe
[07:31:58] <anonimasu> I were thinking a optical sensor
[07:32:15] <anonimasu> anda
[07:32:20] <anonimasu> and a pneumatic arm
[07:32:46] <anonimasu> for plate rotation
[07:32:48] <Crom_> instead of ball bearings rig a photo interrupters instead...
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[07:33:44] <anonimasu> it's just for the plasma
[07:33:49] <anonimasu> I have a probe for the small mill
[07:34:00] <anonimasu> the big mill will get a renishaw when I find a one on ebay
[07:34:28] <Crom_> find some interrupters wide and tall enough the side rods go in the trough and they raise and break the beam. It would actually be a bit less precise them the ball bearings
[07:34:58] <anonimasu> this is on a plasma
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[07:38:50] <Crom_> or are you think head height checker
[07:39:22] <anonimasu> no, the thc has thar coverred
[07:39:30] <anonimasu> I want to probe edges for rotation of the coordinate system
[07:39:46] <anonimasu> so my operator wont have to manually fiddle coord systems
[07:39:56] <Crom_> AHHHHHHHhhhhhhhh
[07:40:09] <anonimasu> (and to set up serial numbers for the stock) so I can load up old stok and continue cutting
[07:40:21] <anonimasu> (continue nesting on it)
[07:42:12] <Crom_> so hmm process would be... 1. extend probe, 2. find material then find end
[07:42:18] <Crom_> find edge
[07:44:01] <Crom_> outside always rectangle? probably not..
[07:44:02] <anonimasu> operator can jog to the zero corner then probe xyz...
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[07:44:28] <anonimasu> not a problem that it's the plate rotation that's a pain
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[07:49:32] <anonimasu> for probing I have other ideas then what people make with the balls
[07:50:21] <anonimasu> I'd machine the contact tips(on the 4th axis) and align them with a carrier ring of plastic(for separation)
[07:50:39] <anonimasu> err between 2 carrier rings
[07:50:53] <anonimasu> with V notches to align the contacts
[07:52:54] <anonimasu> then switch the head on the milling machine to vertical drill/tap holes, screw the carrier plate in place, and cut the contacts free from eachother
[07:53:30] <Crom_> jog left off material, come down with probe, go right to find edge, then go left set amount come forward then right past edge the go towards back to find edge, then go forward pause, op jogs right past end, continue, go back X amount go left find edge, in not found within 6 inches, go back right and go back X more, repeat. find end, come back to original right x, come forward to original Y, go to left found end, go back find ed
[07:53:30] <Crom_> ge. now you have x,y front left corner and x,y right front corner. you can calculate rotation. go forward to ori X, go left to between Y's go back to edge, sanity check edge, then raise Z go back X get material height.
[07:56:01] <anonimasu> yep :) not very complex
[07:56:12] <anonimasu> I need to pull wires/hoses anyway for the oxyfuel torch
[07:56:16] <Crom_> not complex, time consuming
[07:56:22] <anonimasu> to set up?
[07:56:50] <anonimasu> I know the max material height for the machine allowed I can just put a sensor that fits the range
[07:57:32] <Crom_> oh shoot.. prox sensor?
[07:57:49] <anonimasu> I have some photocells
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[07:58:14] <anonimasu> (they are not so damn accurate, but it's a plasma.(2.5mm off is just fine.
[07:59:06] <anonimasu> as long as I can get the plate rotation right, so I can nest up to the edges -3mm or so
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[08:00:36] <Crom_> it's all conductive isn't it? forget that.. mill scale...
[08:03:02] <anonimasu> huh?
[08:03:09] <Crom_> still think a vinland would work best... just add a boot at the top of the probe and give it plenty of travel... do a high speed scan.. make it so you can go 1" over travel and back out to 0 (+ offset of tip)
[08:03:25] <anonimasu> photocell as in the stuff for doors.
[08:03:37] <anonimasu> optical direct reflection
[08:04:20] <anonimasu> and 250-300m of measuring range.
[08:04:23] <anonimasu> mm
[08:04:37] <Crom_> mount it on a pneumatic cylinder powered Zz beside the torch on the torch Z with known offset.
[08:05:08] <anonimasu> I just need it covered for cutting.., the torch lives it's own life, with height control and stuff..
[08:05:45] <anonimasu> initial z height is torque sensing
[08:07:20] <anonimasu> bbl going to work
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[08:09:32] <Crom_> go to x0y0z table height + 0.125" and go X+1 Y +1 at 45 degrees and set up a search pattern untill you find an edge go back way you came until off end then start edge follow and find the front, travel the front, find the end, find the back, then find the next sheet going X +1 Y -1 at 45 degrees to the left back and find the plate, find right front corner, find left corner, find back, find next plate etc until you run out of tabl
[08:09:32] <Crom_> e. calculate all plates. retract probe, start cutting
[08:11:05] <Crom_> if probe end is 2mm (3mm grade 8 ground down to no thread...)
[08:12:05] <Crom_> make the probe body 6" around... you can have plenty of travel
[08:14:58] <Crom_> Zz probe can be a drawer slide covered with a box which has a trap boor which closes when it hits the top. think trash can with lid the opens when you step on the pedal on the floor.. just upside down.
[08:18:19] <Crom_> <Crom_> e. calculate all plates. retract probe, start cutting
[08:18:19] <Crom_> <Crom_> if probe end is 2mm (3mm grade 8 ground down to no thread...)
[08:18:19] <Crom_> <Crom_> make the probe body 6" around... you can have plenty of travel
[08:18:20] <Crom_> <Crom_> Zz probe can be a drawer slide covered with a box which has a trap boor which closes when it hits the top. think trash can with lid the opens when you step on the pedal on the floor.. just upside down.
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[08:23:21] <Crom_> if probe end is 2mm (3mm grade 8 ground down to no thread...)
[08:23:21] <Crom_> make the probe body 6" around... you can have plenty of travel
[08:23:21] <Crom_> Zz probe can be a drawer slide covered with a box which has a trap boor which closes when it hits the top. think trash can with lid the opens when you step on the pedal on the floor.. just upside down.
[08:23:33] <Crom_> damn it
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[09:07:56] <Deejay> moin
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[13:39:50] <jthornton> tjb1, you around?
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[14:33:36] <Tom_itx> morning
[14:36:00] <jthornton> morning
[14:37:47] <Tom_itx> gettin a bit closer with my spindle control.. seems there's always something gettin in the way
[14:38:33] <jthornton> I think I have the firmware loaded onto the ramps lol
[14:39:06] <jthornton> information is like chicken lips... hard to find
[14:39:13] <Tom_itx> oh nice
[14:40:08] <Tom_itx> you find one or two decent guys in reprap... the reset are .... well... not as helpful and assume you're a genius from the beginning
[14:40:39] <Tom_itx> how did you load it?
[14:40:59] <jthornton> arduino ide
[14:41:09] <Tom_itx> serial?
[14:41:37] <Tom_itx> i don't care for their environment much but it works
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[14:42:15] <Tom_itx> iirc, most of your settings will be in the configuration.h file
[14:43:31] <jthornton> I found the Marlin page that kinda shows what to do... I only had to start over once
[14:43:57] <Tom_itx> one guy that is very helpful is triffid_hunter
[14:44:16] <jthornton> I guess I need to slap a power supply to it and a stepper and see if it moves
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[14:45:23] <Tom_itx> if you wanna avoid all the #reprap traffic, #robotics is an other place you can get help
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[14:46:30] <jthornton> thanks, do they do 3d printing in robotics too?
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[14:46:51] <Tom_itx> a few do and those seem to be the more helpful ones
[14:47:02] <Tom_itx> trif is in Au
[14:47:10] <Tom_itx> so Au time there
[14:47:44] <Tom_itx> it can be quiet there at times
[14:47:48] <jthornton> ok
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[14:50:16] <codepython7771> is there a cnc+3d printer in the market that is decent?
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[14:50:54] <Tom_itx> define decent
[14:51:02] <Tom_itx> decent quality? decent price?
[14:51:11] <Tom_itx> mendlemax is nice but $$$
[14:51:12] <codepython7771> Tom_itx: quality. Price <10k.
[14:52:11] <Tom_itx> most of em look like an old bard that's about to fall down
[14:52:26] <Tom_itx> barn*
[14:53:22] <Tom_itx> iirc, reprap has a list somewhere of most of them
[14:55:52] <syyl_ws> dmg builds a decent cnc mill and printer combo
[14:56:20] <syyl_ws> but its slightly beyond 10k ;)
[14:57:48] <syyl_ws> http://de.dmgmori.com/produkte/lasertec/lasertec-additivemanufacturing
[14:57:48] <syyl_ws> ;)
[15:01:46] <codepython7771> syyl_ws: slightly being the keyword? ;)
[15:02:19] <syyl_ws> ;)
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[15:05:16] <codepython7771> syyl_ws: what software do you use to create objects to be printed?
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[15:07:47] <syyl_ws> i dont print :)
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[15:08:24] <syyl_ws> i am not a big fan of "additive machining"
[15:08:30] <syyl_ws> to much hype for my money
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[15:10:47] <Tom_itx> jthornton, have you gotten a reprap or are you building your own?
[15:12:23] <JT-Shop> going to build it
[15:12:34] <JT-Shop> doesn't look hard
[15:12:44] <Tom_itx> no not really
[15:12:46] <JT-Shop> I have the Bulldog XL extruder
[15:13:04] <JT-Shop> and the ramps that take 24v
[15:13:37] <Tom_itx> if you plan to do abs you will need a heater on the bed
[15:13:44] <Tom_itx> pla will work without one
[15:13:47] <JT-Shop> I need to get some linear bearings and shafts and sort out if I want ball screws or belts
[15:14:12] <Tom_itx> belts are cheaper and seem to work quite well
[15:14:15] <JT-Shop> at this time pla is the only thing I'm interested in for lost pla casting
[15:14:28] <Tom_itx> you would probably need a high lead pitch on a screw
[15:14:45] <Tom_itx> yeah i figuerd that's what you were doing it for
[15:15:12] <Tom_itx> most of em use the GT2 belts
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[15:16:01] <Tom_itx> put an extruder on your plasma table an you're nearly there
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[15:17:11] <JT-Shop> this is the ramps I got http://www.reprapdiscount.com/home/29-ramps-14-ultimate-power-kit-1-wiring-set-capable-of-24v.html
[15:17:53] <JT-Shop> the plasma uses a square tooth belt so it is not that accurate
[15:17:58] <Tom_itx> oh
[15:18:07] <Tom_itx> yeah round seems a bit better
[15:18:22] <Tom_itx> that's the most common 'kit' they use
[15:18:32] <Tom_itx> as far as electronics
[15:19:26] <JT-Shop> I'm hoping I can use it with a linux computer... if not I guess I'll use the sd card thing that came with it
[15:19:37] <JT-Shop> and get a lcd display
[15:20:06] <Tom_itx> well, with sd you don't need the pc connection which could fail mid print
[15:20:24] <Tom_itx> seems a better method to me
[15:20:48] <Tom_itx> takes a bit of doing to get that working i think.. i haven't tried sd
[15:22:01] <_methods> -nah it's pretty easy
[15:22:10] <Tom_itx> i've messed with it a bit but not in this context
[15:22:17] <_methods> you basically just hook it up and run with it
[15:22:24] <_methods> you have to enable some stuff in config
[15:22:47] <_methods> uncomment a few lines depending on your lcd
[15:22:50] <Tom_itx> i agree.. most of the grunt work has been done
[15:23:26] <Tom_itx> _methods does marlin have support for that graphic display?
[15:23:38] <_methods> yeah
[15:23:38] <Tom_itx> or does he need another package for it?
[15:24:01] <_methods> no ti works in marlin too
[15:24:07] <_methods> i used to use marlin
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[15:24:17] <Tom_itx> what firmware are you using now?
[15:24:25] <_methods> i can't even remember
[15:24:31] <_methods> i think i'm using marlin
[15:24:39] <Tom_itx> marlin seems to be quite popular
[15:24:42] <_methods> i haven't fired up my 3d printer in like 6 months
[15:25:12] <_methods> makes a nice window display lol
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[15:25:31] <_methods> i'm going to build another one though
[15:25:40] <_methods> i'm going to make one of those core xy's
[15:25:55] <_methods> 2 of my buddies built them and they print incredible
[15:26:06] <Tom_itx> i'm not familiar with that one
[15:26:12] <_methods> i have a reprap morgan and a mendlemax2
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[15:26:40] <Tom_itx> mike did ok with the mendlemax
[15:26:43] <_methods> i used to never use the sd card/lcd
[15:26:47] <_methods> but now i use it all the time
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[15:27:13] <_methods> yeah the mendelmax is a good build but i made the same mistake most machinists would make looking at 3d printer designs
[15:27:25] <_methods> the bed moving on 3d printer is bad
[15:27:42] <_methods> i looked at all those other designs and thought they were crap were the bed just dropped
[15:27:49] <_methods> s/were/where
[15:28:01] <Tom_itx> more mass to move
[15:28:05] <_methods> but now i realize you don't want your table flyin all over
[15:28:13] <_methods> with your part all stacked up 12 inches high on it
[15:28:28] <Tom_itx> good point
[15:28:50] <Tom_itx> be like carrying jello
[15:29:36] <_methods> yeah
[15:30:02] <_methods> my buddies have like 80 3d printers
[15:30:05] <_methods> they're crazy
[15:30:24] <_methods> and those core xy's print the best out of all their designs
[15:30:57] <Rickta59> can linuxcnc deal with a corexy?
[15:31:10] <_methods> i would imagine som
[15:31:30] <_methods> you can deal with any kinematics in linuxcnc
[15:31:42] <_methods> depending on the horsepower of your box
[15:32:32] <Tom_itx> looks like an etch o sketch
[15:32:44] <Rickta59> yeah but no
[15:33:53] <_methods> yeah
[15:34:11] <_methods> the constant tension on the carriage makes it move real smooth
[15:34:21] <Tom_itx> still a single stepper for x and one for y?
[15:34:25] <_methods> yep
[15:34:30] <_methods> you just use a lot of belt
[15:34:41] <Tom_itx> belt doesn't cost that much
[15:34:47] <Tom_itx> what about belt stretch?
[15:35:07] <_methods> you can tighten it over time
[15:35:15] <Tom_itx> jthornton, have you looked at that design?
[15:35:17] <_methods> they have adjusters at the mounting points
[15:35:19] <_methods> tensioners
[15:35:21] <Tom_itx> looks interesting
[15:35:33] <_methods> yeah that will be my next 3d printer build
[15:35:37] <Tom_itx> tensioner on the far end of the belt?
[15:35:39] <_methods> after i do my plasma table
[15:35:46] <_methods> on the carriage
[15:35:50] <_methods> and i think on the stepper mounts
[15:35:57] <_methods> you can adjust some tension
[15:36:05] <Tom_itx> i saw something similar that used string and one stepper iirc
[15:36:10] <_methods> yeah
[15:36:16] <_methods> those drawing things
[15:36:23] <_methods> uses bead cord for like shades
[15:37:00] <JT-Shop> _methods, do you have a link to a cord xy like you mentioned above?
[15:37:04] <Tom_itx> so then they just add z to the bed for reprap...
[15:37:16] <Tom_itx> http://joshuavasquez.com/docs/jVasquez/Projects/coreXY.html
[15:37:19] <Tom_itx> is one JT-Shop
[15:37:29] <Rickta59> http://corexy.com/theory.html
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[15:37:38] <_methods> yeah one sec
[15:37:55] <Tom_itx> good belt diagram on the one i linked
[15:38:16] <JT-Shop> cool
[15:38:17] <Rickta59> some like the cross
[15:38:23] <_methods> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:393155
[15:38:25] <Rickta59> some people don't want the cross
[15:38:49] <_methods> this is my buddies build
[15:38:57] <_methods> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:252041
[15:38:59] <Tom_itx> that does look like a decent design
[15:39:08] <_methods> he had a hot plate layin around from a delta lol
[15:39:43] <Tom_itx> does it shake around sitting on top of stilts?
[15:40:06] <_methods> stilts?
[15:40:15] <Rickta59> high weight
[15:40:20] <Tom_itx> well i assume it sits on 4 legs
[15:41:23] <Tom_itx> you could bolt it to a table and lower Z below the table
[15:41:42] <Tom_itx> then you would have the rigidness of the table to absorb the movement
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[15:42:09] <JT-Shop> I like the core xy design, thanks for mentioning that _methods
[15:42:20] <Tom_itx> yeah me too
[15:42:27] <_methods> np
[15:42:33] <_methods> it will be my next build for sure
[15:42:50] <_methods> they're prints are as good as i've seen for fdm
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[15:43:56] <_methods> http://www.thingiverse.com/jamesarm97/makes
[15:44:11] <_methods> those are some of the things my other buddy has printed on his
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[15:44:30] <JT-Shop> so the print head stays still in the Z axis and the table moves up and down?
[15:44:38] <Tom_itx> yes
[15:44:57] <_methods> yeah you would think that would be bad
[15:45:03] <Tom_itx> that way it doesn't upset the molten plastic
[15:45:05] <_methods> as a machinist you think it's a horrible idea
[15:45:27] <Tom_itx> or come unstuck from the bed as easy
[15:45:39] <_methods> yeah
[15:46:10] <JT-Shop> I wonder if Marlin has a core xy
[15:46:13] <Tom_itx> _methods do you use painter's tape to hold PLA down?
[15:46:42] <JT-Shop> bbl
[15:47:22] <_methods> no i use hairspray
[15:47:40] <_methods> and if you have your bed leveled right i've printed for weeks without using heat or hairspray
[15:48:08] <Tom_itx> do you clean it after each print?
[15:48:22] <_methods> nope
[15:48:26] <_methods> i've had very good luck
[15:48:33] <_methods> i am not the norm for sure lol
[15:49:07] <_methods> but i do use the hairspray if i'm having issues
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[15:53:28] <_methods> i use that aquanet pink stuff
[15:53:39] <_methods> not all hairsprays work
[15:53:57] <_methods> use that crap the chicks used to spray in their hair back in the 80's lol
[15:55:50] <_methods> and none of my words apply to ABS
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[16:26:57] <Rickta59> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIX9_1DD_S8 about 3 mintues in he talks about what he dislikes about corexy
[16:28:23] <Tom_itx> _methods do you get these results with it? http://fashionweekmix.com/fashion/2011/07/cute-Bouffant-Hairstyle.jpg https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2161/3527404240_98a64b0325.jpg
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[16:34:58] <CaptHindsight> I can print those hairstyles
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[16:41:19] * syyl_ws checks the channeldescription
[16:41:24] <syyl_ws> ok, no fashion-channel
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[16:44:59] <furrywolf> ?
[16:46:13] <CaptHindsight> syyl: maybe try ##hipster
[16:46:27] * furrywolf just wears jeans and t-shirts
[16:47:10] <furrywolf> I'm not sexy enough to wear things described as fashionable anyway.
[16:49:31] <syyl_ws> machining is not very hipster ;)
[16:49:34] <syyl_ws> il stay here
[16:51:08] <furrywolf> dunno, I think there's some overlap between hipsters and 3d printer owners.
[16:51:17] <syyl_ws> uh
[16:51:32] <CaptHindsight> please don't give them any ideas
[16:51:35] <syyl_ws> i will throw carbide endmills at them if they threaden me :D
[16:51:41] <furrywolf> lol
[16:52:05] <XXCoder> 3d print nice clothes ;)
[16:52:37] <syyl_ws> jeans are nice enough ;)
[16:52:50] <syyl_ws> my gf just comfirmed.
[16:52:50] <CaptHindsight> printing non wovens for clothing is an untapped market
[16:53:21] <furrywolf> hrmm, then hipsters could print t-shirts with the names of DIFFERENT bands no one has ever heard of on them.
[16:53:28] <CaptHindsight> other than that undergarment made with sprayable latex
[16:54:07] <syyl_ws> hmm
[16:54:12] <syyl_ws> that might be durable
[16:54:18] <syyl_ws> bedliner?
[16:54:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cnet.com/news/biodegradable-3d-printed-underpants-can-be-worn-tossed/
[16:55:06] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I would make up bullshit band names like "burnt ashes" and "wacky jokemusic" amd say "oh you never heard of em? too bad" to any hipsers who ask
[16:55:29] <syyl_ws> :D
[16:55:33] <syyl_ws> great idea!
[16:55:55] <CaptHindsight> or mashup band names
[16:56:06] <furrywolf> I like bands no one has ever heard of, but all my shirts with anything printed on them just have my business name. heh.
[16:56:06] <XXCoder> easy enough with small C project
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[16:57:14] <XXCoder> :) I love this band "Complete and total silence", I hear it all time.
[16:57:42] <CaptHindsight> and their new top hit "Over the hills and far far away"
[16:58:19] <XXCoder> meh it actually contains bug sounds. I prefer "Silence of deep space"
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[16:58:43] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogxvonZCP48
[16:58:57] <furrywolf> I wonder how hard it would be to generate random album covers... after generating the random band name, google image search for the words in it, then randomly composite the first few resulting images.
[16:59:06] <XXCoder> nice
[16:59:16] <XXCoder> and no idea
[17:00:00] <furrywolf> and then sell them! :P
[17:01:04] <XXCoder> https://www.google.com/search?q=silence+of+deep+space&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=wUTWVInvCsy3ogSn_oGQDA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=969
[17:01:12] <XXCoder> first few results of silence of deep space
[17:01:17] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: random news photos and random nouns and verbs
[17:01:46] <XXCoder> not as bad if I add "news" https://www.google.com/search?q=silence+of+deep+space&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=wUTWVInvCsy3ogSn_oGQDA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=969#safe=off&tbm=isch&q=silence+of+deep+space+news
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[17:03:12] <CaptHindsight> http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/25/article-2588900-1C8D909E00000578-937_634x354.jpg painted by blindfolded artist, who knew?
[17:03:45] <syyl_ws> thats awesome!
[17:04:03] <CaptHindsight> maybe monkeys with markers and random nouns and verbs
[17:04:13] <CaptHindsight> then it's original artwork
[17:04:24] <syyl_ws> cat with markers taped to their tail?
[17:05:26] <CaptHindsight> my inspiration http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2588900/Picturing-minds-eye-Meet-artist-paints-BLINDFOLDED-depict-visions-experiences-meditation-sessions.html
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[17:05:29] <furrywolf> will be kinda hard to see the marker marks under all the blood from the person trying to attach them.
[17:06:07] <CaptHindsight> whenever I try I get this http://ak2.polyvoreimg.com/cgi/img-thing/size/l/tid/2721943.jpg
[17:06:40] <XXCoder> you get a circle? ;)
[17:06:59] <furrywolf> that's a really good square for drawn freehand blindfolded.
[17:07:01] <CaptHindsight> I want what XXCoder is using :)
[17:07:15] <XXCoder> lol
[17:07:26] * XXCoder passes along some candy
[17:07:46] <syyl_ws> dont take candy from strangers!
[17:08:28] <CaptHindsight> cnc laser cut textiles for clothing, there just needs to be a rapid adhesive to hold the pieces together
[17:08:54] <XXCoder> don't worry those has 90% less shaving blades in em
[17:10:37] <CaptHindsight> a 3d printer that weaves carbon fiber and coats them with resin would be really handy
[17:11:27] <syyl_ws> i just heard in the tested podcast that there is a reprapthing that prints abs and can embed carbon fibres
[17:11:29] <XXCoder> one exists
[17:11:35] <XXCoder> for tubes anyway
[17:12:01] <syyl_ws> fibrewinding machines for tubular structures are pretty common :D
[17:12:53] <CaptHindsight> freeform random shapes is what's needed
[17:13:15] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiPQpiE4_qY
[17:13:28] <DaViruz> there are filament wire for cnc hot glue guns that contain short fiber clippings for reinforcement
[17:13:39] <CaptHindsight> resin and carbon fiber flock would even be a good start
[17:14:14] <DaViruz> i'm not sure of how effective it is though, it may well make it weaker due to poor adhesion
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[17:15:29] <CaptHindsight> robot carbon fiber knitting machine
[17:16:33] <CaptHindsight> http://makezine.com/2014/02/27/openknit-an-open-source-knitting-machine/
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[17:17:22] <CaptHindsight> http://vimeo.com/86889648 how the OpenKnit Knitting Machine works.
[17:17:31] <furrywolf> I've thought about building a faux fur making machine... good fursuits can sell for a rather good chunk of money.
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[17:18:05] <CaptHindsight> the costume industry
[17:18:08] <furrywolf> a large black box tells me exactly nothing about how it works. how about, you know, text, and images?
[17:20:23] <zeeshan|2> lots of 3d printing chanter
[17:20:24] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[17:20:39] <furrywolf> zee: blown up and drives today?
[17:20:40] <CaptHindsight> additive manufacturing
[17:20:41] <furrywolf> any
[17:21:07] <XXCoder> last time he talked he had pulled motor apart
[17:21:11] <XXCoder> and found it was rebuilt
[17:21:18] <zeeshan|2> yea
[17:21:20] <zeeshan|2> its rebuilt
[17:21:25] <zeeshan|2> i inspected the brushes through the brush slots
[17:21:27] <zeeshan|2> they look clean
[17:21:56] <furrywolf> did you do any tests to check for shorts to the case, tach, or brake?
[17:22:06] <zeeshan|2> my commutator looks like this
[17:22:08] <zeeshan|2> http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Stacker22/media/Motorlayout.jpg.html
[17:22:10] <zeeshan|2> not my pic
[17:22:13] <zeeshan|2> but gives you an idea
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[17:22:25] <zeeshan|2> theres 4 brushes
[17:22:31] <zeeshan|2> i think :p
[17:22:45] <CaptHindsight> i ordered the framed prints
[17:22:57] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: not really
[17:22:59] <zeeshan|2> i only did the motor test
[17:23:23] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QQfT-neTz0
[17:23:41] <furrywolf> is that video something that's going to be worth waiting to download?
[17:23:50] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:23:53] <zeeshan|2> do you have a slow connect
[17:23:59] <furrywolf> yes
[17:24:05] <zeeshan|2> then no
[17:24:08] <Tom_itx> naw skip it
[17:24:23] <zeeshan|2> it just shows the bulb only changes brightness
[17:24:27] <zeeshan|2> if you try to rotate the motor too fast
[17:24:34] <zeeshan|2> if you move it slowly
[17:24:36] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt
[17:24:38] <Tom_itx> well of course
[17:24:48] <Tom_itx> the motor is a generator
[17:24:52] <furrywolf> so if you connect a good motor to a good drive, the drive blows? :P
[17:24:54] <zeeshan|2> yea it opposites basttery
[17:24:57] <Tom_itx> see that's where the emf comes from
[17:25:23] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: have not tried that yet
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[17:26:58] <zeeshan|2> with voltage applied to the brake
[17:27:11] <zeeshan|2> there is no voltage detected at the tachometer or motor lead wires
[17:27:14] <furrywolf> power up the motor off 12V, then measure the voltage between your power and the case, tach, and brake wires.
[17:27:49] <zeeshan|2> and i turn it?
[17:28:11] <furrywolf> sure, although I don't know if it'll change anything.
[17:28:12] <furrywolf> lol
[17:28:16] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[17:28:39] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: dynimo yeah
[17:28:47] <XXCoder> I never could spell that damn word
[17:30:07] <CaptHindsight> I'd like to print carbon fiber parts like these http://www.advancedinductionresearch.com/Copy%20of%20FD1301-20%20RtFr.jpg
[17:30:14] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[17:30:16] <zeeshan|2> that would be sweet
[17:30:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Ruckus-Components-Graham-Carbon-Fiber-Cowboy-Hat.jpg
[17:30:32] <furrywolf> I don't. I like car parts to be made of metal.
[17:30:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.carid.com/images/seibon/page/seibon-carbon-fiber-front-bumper-5.jpg
[17:31:13] <CaptHindsight> http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoGallerys/group.jpg
[17:31:28] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/uwgk1Za.jpg
[17:31:29] <XXCoder> carbon fiber made from carbon fiber ;)
[17:31:32] <furrywolf> yeah, my custom bumper is 1/2" wall 4x6" box section. want to play chicken?
[17:31:33] <zeeshan|2> i built that a while back
[17:31:41] <CaptHindsight> nice
[17:31:54] <zeeshan|2> plenum out of cf would be nice
[17:32:10] <XXCoder> furry im sure my van crappy plastic bumper would win ;)
[17:32:25] <CaptHindsight> I can SLA them now with short strand CF
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[17:32:51] <CaptHindsight> but continuous fiber would be better
[17:32:55] * furrywolf thinks bumpers need to be capable of delivering the kinetic energy of the vehicle to the other object
[17:33:02] <zeeshan|2> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/plenum1.jpg
[17:33:17] <zeeshan|2> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/plenum_grinded.jpg
[17:33:24] <CaptHindsight> a bumpber weaver
[17:33:29] <zeeshan|2> a lot work to build the plenum
[17:33:35] <zeeshan|2> 3d printed one would save labor :P
[17:33:59] <furrywolf> actual weaving would be very hard to do without a many many nozzled machine...
[17:34:15] <CaptHindsight> lost wax casting, or DMLS can also make that
[17:34:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah but it's not half as cool..
[17:34:52] <JT-Shop> is the core xy considered a Cartesian printer?
[17:35:09] <XXCoder> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loom
[17:35:20] <XXCoder> change it so CNC swaps colors as nesscary
[17:35:27] <XXCoder> fast and inline
[17:35:44] <CaptHindsight> making textile is easy
[17:35:59] <CaptHindsight> I want to print textiles and CF right to final shape
[17:36:12] <XXCoder> yeah bet thats not easy
[17:36:48] <XXCoder> http://www.wired.com/2010/09/spray-on-fabric/
[17:36:54] <furrywolf> the best way I can think of, for a fully cnc machine with a reasonable number of heads, is rather than printing the carbon fibers in the final polyester resin, you fed them out of a nozzle in a soft wax binder, with the strands fed through a needle extending about a half inch past the nozzle, repeatedly stuffing them down into the previous layers, then did some process to replace the temporary binder with the final polyester resin...
[17:37:08] <furrywolf> (at least, the best way I can think of given the 30 seconds or so I spent typing that line)
[17:38:28] <furrywolf> or maybe used a UV cure resin, very lightly cured during the first pass so it gells but is still soft enough to poke the next layer of fibers into, the a final cure of the entire part.
[17:38:58] <XXCoder> just make sure constant cure afterwards (out in sun and all) would not cause any issues
[17:39:44] <PetefromTn_> http://almostnerdy.com/cool-stuff/star-trek-alcoholic-drinks/ I think I need some Andorian ale!!
[17:40:01] <CaptHindsight> you can also selectively cure photopolymers
[17:40:05] <furrywolf> while it wouldn't be continous fibers, you'd at least have controlled overlap in all directions, including Z, unlike any simple extruder method.
[17:40:44] <CaptHindsight> yes, continuous needs to be woven
[17:41:27] <XXCoder> I can't imange machine that could do pants and shirts and anything else woven
[17:41:36] <XXCoder> it must be hideously complex
[17:41:42] <CaptHindsight> parts are layed up by hand using forms now
[17:41:45] <XXCoder> so it can make any cloth forms
[17:41:46] <furrywolf> xxcoder: I can imagine it. I just wouldn't want to build it. :P
[17:41:55] <CaptHindsight> they layer CF prepregs
[17:42:00] <XXCoder> build it, I dare ya ;)
[17:42:19] <XXCoder> could make you billionaire. if so, I want enough to get nice mill cnc machine
[17:42:20] <furrywolf> xxcoder: I've seen them... they just have a simple mechanism repeated hundreds or thousands of times.
[17:42:45] <furrywolf> many textile machines are based around doing something simple a thousand times at once.
[17:42:47] <XXCoder> isnt it just 2d like sheets? would it make whole shirt AND with different program, pants>?
[17:43:11] <CaptHindsight> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31KmZm249EL.jpg even printing a simple part like this is a good start
[17:43:30] <CaptHindsight> variable diameter tube with some slight bends
[17:43:55] <furrywolf> http://image.ec21.com/image/kumoh/oimg_GC01128097/Textile_Machinery_Used_.jpg ends up looking like that
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[17:44:17] <XXCoder> jeez thats pretty complex
[17:44:32] <furrywolf> that's a simple machine when it comes to textiles
[17:44:45] <XXCoder> crazy.
[17:45:05] <CaptHindsight> superloom
[17:45:06] <furrywolf> http://img.weiku.com/waterpicture/2011/10/29/14/Textile_machine_spinning_machine_spandex_yarn_deivce_634594209405414245_1.jpg how about for flat things?
[17:45:55] <CaptHindsight> http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/lexus-lfa-carbon-fiber-loom_100337722_m.jpg
[17:46:18] <XXCoder> wonder if those fancy weaving machines can be adopted for carbon fibre
[17:46:27] <XXCoder> if it can make any shape woven stuff..
[17:46:30] <CaptHindsight> http://jalopnik.com/5737631/the-amazing-carbon-fiber-loom-toyota-didnt-want-you-to-see
[17:46:40] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: ^^
[17:46:46] <XXCoder> looking
[17:47:03] <furrywolf> a lot of textile processing (and the vast majority in terms of products made) is massively parallel.
[17:47:20] <furrywolf> and has been since the industrial revolution
[17:47:24] <XXCoder> kit a car
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[17:48:09] <XXCoder> that weave dance is extremely complex
[17:48:14] <XXCoder> mind boggling really.
[17:48:15] <CaptHindsight> 3d printing forms for CF laminates that dissolve in water
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[17:49:56] <CaptHindsight> or forms that hold up for 100 shots while vacuum forming
[17:50:58] <furrywolf> xxcoder: many of them are even more clever, and have moving complex parts on floating mounts, so they can actually wrap another thread completely around it... the bobbin and rotating hook in a standard sewing machine is a simple example...
[17:53:00] <CaptHindsight> I'll go ask in #reprap :)
[17:53:15] <XXCoder> have fun
[17:53:25] <XXCoder> well time for me to go fix my broken van lol
[17:53:37] <XXCoder> I acciently broke it yeserday :P latch in hatch can't close
[17:54:23] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: is yours like this? http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/mysterymachine/newmyst2.jpg
[17:54:33] <zeeshan|2> i never used to think these motors cost so much
[17:54:38] <zeeshan|2> i used to work on thsoe fanuc redcap motors
[17:54:41] <XXCoder> wow who copied my van??
[17:54:45] <zeeshan|2> fak some of these are like 5000
[17:54:47] <zeeshan|2> USED
[17:54:49] <furrywolf> latch in hatch needs patch dispatch?
[17:55:10] <XXCoder> furry is that supposed to be a touge twister?
[17:55:54] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I still have no idea if your motor is bad. lol
[17:55:56] <XXCoder> tongue twister
[17:56:04] <zeeshan|2> yea man
[17:56:09] <zeeshan|2> ill check in a bit
[17:56:10] <zeeshan|2> that test
[17:56:15] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, here is one with SW files https://github.com/zelogik/AluXY
[17:58:18] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: coreXY cartesian motion platforms, so yes, cartesian
[18:03:49] <JT-Shop> ok
[18:04:43] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprint.com/31284/space-weaver-3d-machine/
[18:06:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.instructables.com/id/Space-Weaver-A-Seven-Foot-Tall-3D-Weaving-Machine/?ALLSTEPS
[18:06:17] <CaptHindsight> really crude version
[18:07:08] <PetefromTn_> boy is that a hack job
[18:08:57] <CaptHindsight> http://matter.media.mit.edu/tools
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[18:11:46] <CaptHindsight> lots of great ideas but they don't have anyone that can follow through on development (and the prof is a hottie)
[18:16:04] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/g3rard/OpenKnit have to get this working in Linuxcnc
[18:16:25] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: did your motors bolt in
[18:16:29] <zeeshan|2> or did you have to make adapters
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[18:17:26] <PetefromTn_> bolt right in man
[18:17:31] <zeeshan|2> haha nice
[18:18:00] <PetefromTn_> altho I did have to tweak the power input connections on the Y axis due to the narrow column opening where it goes into
[18:18:43] <CaptHindsight> after 32 seconds of code review I'm better off just starting with linuxcnc and using some not too fancy Gcode
[18:18:52] <zeeshan|2> lol capricorn_1
[18:18:53] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight:
[18:21:05] <CaptHindsight> being able to place strands of fiber closer together means thinner actuators for the hooks
[18:23:33] <zeeshan|2> In an automotive manufacturing plant, it is required to machine 10,000 numbers of the component (assume the mean internal diameter to be 80 mm) shown in the Figure each month. What machining process would you suggest for machining the internal features? Why
[18:23:36] <zeeshan|2> assignment q
[18:23:42] <zeeshan|2> im thinking spline broaching
[18:23:54] <zeeshan|2> cause you have the quantity
[18:24:21] <zeeshan|2> its fast too
[18:25:35] <zeeshan|2> oh you guys cant see the image :-)
[18:33:23] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: whats the material?
[18:33:28] <zeeshan|2> steel :D
[18:33:32] <zeeshan|2> i just said spline broaching
[18:33:33] <zeeshan|2> it makes sense
[18:34:18] <CaptHindsight> square(-ish) hole?
[18:39:40] <zeeshan|2> no its an internal spline
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[18:42:16] <tjtr33> RAMPS dang acronyms, meaningless trivial pursuit... so RAMPS is not reprap amplifier its Reprap Arduino Mega Pololu Shield or justabuncha step drivers
[18:42:50] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, the openknit looks fun, at least the dev has real attitude going into those stores with his work
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[18:44:40] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, your idea of using repraps to make PLA/lostwax castings finished by real CNC is great
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[18:45:21] <furrywolf> broaching and/or forging, depending on other needs of the part.
[18:45:39] <furrywolf> forged or rolled splines are stronger than milled or broached
[18:47:23] <CaptHindsight> you can get older Xerox colorqube printers that print with wax for <$100
[18:48:28] <CaptHindsight> you don't have to secondary machine the wax parts after printing since the drop volume is in the few picoliters
[18:49:55] <furrywolf> the problem with picoliter drops is how long it takes to make something 3d out of them.
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[18:52:17] <CaptHindsight> it's variable drop volume
[18:52:36] <CaptHindsight> each head can print ~0.5L an hour
[18:52:49] -!- TTN [TTN!~TTN@unaffiliated/ttn] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:53:26] <CaptHindsight> plus you only print the outer layer and then fill with wax
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[18:54:12] <tjtr33> i was thinking of the original carburator part, the metal casting needed to be decked and maybe some holes for passages countersunk/o-ringed. the internal passages were kinda like pcb layout, but pipes
[18:56:05] <CaptHindsight> those heads have 1236 nozzles that fire >40Khz
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[18:57:28] <furrywolf> tjtr: sure it's not easier to just machine an adapter plate to bolt a non-plastic carb to it? :)
[18:59:33] <furrywolf> couple o' power supply questions: which of the following fuses should I have: AC input to transformer, AC out of the transformer, individual drive fuses? Also, why does the transformer buzz for ~2 seconds after I plug it in then stop? it has nothing connected to the secondary. never had one do that...
[19:01:04] <pcw_home> magnetizing current
[19:02:00] <furrywolf> for a couple seconds? the rest of mine either buzz continuously, or go thoomp and stop...
[19:02:00] <pcw_home> most transformers do that (but easier to hear on bigger ones)
[19:02:28] <furrywolf> my big battery charger makes the most impressive thoomps I've ever heard from a 110v-powered device. :)
[19:02:50] <pcw_home> Yeah a few seconds is common
[19:03:02] <furrywolf> hrmm. maybe the rest of my transformers have just been weird. :)
[19:03:44] <pcw_home> I think its from residual magnetism from when last turned off
[19:04:40] <furrywolf> for the fuses, I'm thinking an ac input fuse, and individual drive fuses. no reason to fuse the output when you have an input fuse.
[19:04:43] <pcw_home> so you get saturation when first turned on until the average field gets back to 0
[19:05:13] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/charger2.jpg thoomp-making device.
[19:05:50] <pcw_home> AC powered drives?
[19:05:56] <furrywolf> no, DC.
[19:06:21] <furrywolf> got a transformer with two 40vac secondaries at 625va, a 50a bridge, and a 37,000uf 75v cap.
[19:06:30] <furrywolf> going to parallel the secondaries
[19:06:47] <furrywolf> it actually seems to put out 43vac, but that's close enough. :)
[19:06:53] <pcw_home> make sure the fuses in the DC never blow in normal operation or you will likely lose the drive
[19:07:26] <furrywolf> the manual for the drives says they should be individually fused
[19:08:15] <furrywolf> I should get around 60vdc, which coincidentally enough is what the torque curves for the steppers is shown at... and a bit of a margin of safety under the 80v rating of the drives.
[19:10:12] <pcw_home> individual fusing is fine just be aware that if the fuse blows, the drive will be gone
[19:10:34] <furrywolf> I have (again following the manual) a 1000uf cap and a 75v zener on the drive input, which should help prevent that.
[19:11:20] <furrywolf> the manual suggests failures will usually toast the zener but save the drive
[19:11:46] <pcw_home> OK that should help (some of our LV Hbridges short out the power on over voltages)
[19:12:22] <furrywolf> I got a pack of 10A fuses, which is more than the drive should draw under non-failing conditions.
[19:12:38] <furrywolf> the manual says a 7-10A fuse
[19:12:59] <zeeshan|2> dont blow your drives!
[19:12:59] <zeeshan|2> :]
[19:13:07] <furrywolf> running 9A/phase to the steppers
[19:13:13] <zeeshan|2> i've blown enough for all of you
[19:13:20] <zeeshan|2> those are big steppers
[19:13:24] <zeeshan|2> how many oz-in?
[19:13:30] <zeeshan|2> i think my 1200oz-in take 6A/phase
[19:13:36] <furrywolf> 940ozin
[19:13:46] <zeeshan|2> i guess a different kind of winding
[19:14:04] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: why dont you guys make drives
[19:14:06] <furrywolf> depends on voltage too. low voltage, high current steppers tend to be faster than high voltage, low current steppers, for the same holding torque.
[19:14:06] <CaptHindsight> things you never thought you'd hear people say in this channel for $500
[19:14:06] <zeeshan|2> i'd buy some
[19:14:07] <zeeshan|2> to blow up
[19:14:32] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: youre right
[19:14:35] <zeeshan|2> kmy steppers are slow as shit
[19:14:42] <zeeshan|2> i only get 100 ipm
[19:14:44] <furrywolf> more drive voltage!
[19:14:49] <pcw_home> Yeah 10A is 600 W and I dont think there are any stepmotors capable of more than a couple hundred watts of output
[19:14:55] <zeeshan|2> im pushing them to 65vdc
[19:15:00] <furrywolf> 100ipm isn't that bad for steppers...
[19:15:13] <furrywolf> you want servos if you want rapids to actually be rapid.
[19:15:50] <furrywolf> zee: find a spec sheet for your steppers, and see if they give curves for different drive input voltages.
[19:16:08] <furrywolf> mine have a curve all the way up to 120v, but that gets into substantially more expensive drives.
[19:16:28] <furrywolf> if you have higher inductance steppers, you may well need the higher voltage to get full performance from them
[19:17:41] <furrywolf> make sure you get the _exact_ spec sheet. many motors are available with very different windings with only a single digit or letter change in the part number.
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[19:20:14] <furrywolf> stepper torque drops off sharply with rpm, but is proportional to drive voltage. so if you double drive voltage, you get double the torque at the same rpm, or the same torque at a higher rpm.
[19:21:26] <furrywolf> I seem to be talking to myself, so I'm going to go back to wiring a power supply. bbl.
[19:24:39] <Crom_> you too eh?
[19:25:29] <furrywolf> ?
[19:26:30] <tjtr33> i played with a new kins to allow working normal to workfaces that are not G17 18 19.
[19:26:43] <tjtr33> http://imagebin.ca/v/1qrWSViS9cKf http://imagebin.ca/v/1qrXrvoymizS http://imagebin.ca/v/1qrXEHPsOfrN http://imagebin.ca/v/1qrY5yuSNpCN
[19:26:57] <tjtr33> the math works but theres a foreshortening of units of measure,
[19:27:08] <tjtr33> like a 2mm travel in the tilted plane may only take 300 um sized steps to traverse.
[19:27:18] <tjtr33> so the math works but it looses precision at tilt, dang!
[19:27:19] <tjtr33> the only solution i see is to really tilt the cutting head or workpiece ( no free lunch :(
[19:27:40] <tjtr33> mechanisms can get real expensive, the math was free
[19:27:57] <furrywolf> or more precise actuators
[19:28:30] <zeeshan|2> Consider that you are being hired as a consultant to solve a problem with geometric distortion (not being able to attain the required circularity) of thin bearing rings after a finish turning operation. How would you go about solving this problem?
[19:28:31] <tjtr33> < 1 um gets real expensive actuators or encoder/scales
[19:28:34] <zeeshan|2> i dunno what this prof wants from me !
[19:28:35] <zeeshan|2> lol
[19:28:44] <zeeshan|2> he wants us to read google scholar papers
[19:28:45] <zeeshan|2> to answer this q
[19:28:54] <zeeshan|2> i just wanna write "burnish the damn thing in a proper die"
[19:29:00] <zeeshan|2> 1 line
[19:29:39] <furrywolf> "as the owner of a 5-axis machining center, I am qualified to answer this question based on personal expierence"? :P
[19:29:49] <zeeshan|2> haha
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[19:30:22] <zeeshan|2> i cant find a curve
[19:30:24] <zeeshan|2> for the stepper :P
[19:30:28] <CaptHindsight> the first puzzle is always finding out what the constraints are for the problem
[19:30:36] <zeeshan|2> yea its very generic q
[19:30:40] <furrywolf> you're just a student and you can afford toys like that? bleh. I figured you were a shop owner or something.
[19:30:52] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: im doing my masters
[19:30:55] <zeeshan|2> we get paid up here to do it
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[19:31:13] <CaptHindsight> personality, politics, budget, machines and tooling they have, workers attitudes etc etc
[19:31:18] <furrywolf> note that the real point of the question may be "demonstrate you know how to find and read a scholary article", not "figure out how to make this part".
[19:31:19] <zeeshan|2> i make like 45k from school
[19:31:25] <zeeshan|2> they pay tuition too
[19:31:35] <zeeshan|2> and then i run my side work business :)
[19:31:42] <zeeshan|2> mostly car parts
[19:31:47] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Lend me $100?
[19:31:50] <furrywolf> I can hardly afford to put my $100 craigslist mill together.
[19:32:03] <tjtr33> can you access those docs ? Elsvier etc, they are locked to us commoners
[19:32:04] <CaptHindsight> work as you go plan, too bad the US doesn't have that
[19:32:06] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: lend me 1000
[19:32:25] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: they take international students too
[19:32:26] <zeeshan|2> including from usa
[19:32:31] <zeeshan|2> and they get similar perks
[19:32:41] <zeeshan|2> you can make more if you TA a lot
[19:33:01] <zeeshan|2> they pay like 41$ / hr for someone with a degree
[19:33:04] <zeeshan|2> but you wont get too many hours
[19:33:12] <zeeshan|2> 160 hours - 200 hours max per sem
[19:33:26] <zeeshan|2> sem = 4 16 weeks
[19:33:30] <zeeshan|2> -4
[19:33:46] <andypugh> It’s been a crazy long job, but I finally have the lights ready to fit to the Ner-a-Car: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/R6XaHgHaC917tupgrLwatNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:33:54] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: you forgot to mention
[19:34:06] <furrywolf> you make twice as much being a student as I make being an adult. heh.
[19:34:06] <zeeshan|2> crazy long job, and also a drilled finger, the lights are ready
[19:34:21] <zeeshan|2> looks nice andypugh
[19:34:29] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: ive been in school forever
[19:34:33] <zeeshan|2> 3 years college
[19:34:34] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: are you looking for dealers abroad yet? :)
[19:34:35] <zeeshan|2> 4 years uni
[19:34:42] <zeeshan|2> 2nd year for masters now
[19:34:46] <zeeshan|2> maybe another 4 for phd
[19:35:05] <zeeshan|2> i wanna go back into industry through
[19:35:09] <zeeshan|2> so might not do phd
[19:35:10] <furrywolf> with what they're paying you, not much incentive to stop. :P
[19:35:12] <zeeshan|2> thats too much commitment
[19:35:15] <CaptHindsight> doctor of blown drives (ducks)
[19:35:20] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: its not much man
[19:35:24] <tjtr33> nice andy, is the one on right a gas model :)
[19:35:27] <furrywolf> <zeeshan|2> i make like 45k from school
[19:35:27] <zeeshan|2> my friends w/ an undergrad degree
[19:35:31] <zeeshan|2> are making 60k
[19:35:37] <andypugh> I got BSc and PhD in 6 years total. And I am in industry and want to go back to academia :-) (I did 15 years postdoc stuff after the PhD)
[19:35:39] <zeeshan|2> 2nd year of working
[19:35:48] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: you're crazy
[19:35:52] <zeeshan|2> you didnt do masters?
[19:35:59] <furrywolf> I'm making 20k.
[19:36:19] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: career upgrade time! :P
[19:36:21] <andypugh> No, didn’t see the point in an MSc
[19:36:34] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: you can't get into phd without msc here
[19:36:44] <tjtr33> what would you do in academia, study/teach/both?
[19:36:53] <andypugh> I don’t think you can here any more.
[19:37:07] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i like academia
[19:37:12] <zeeshan|2> but i think you can make more money in industry
[19:37:15] <zeeshan|2> and its more challenging
[19:37:29] <andypugh> I applied for a senior lecturer position a few months ago, but they didn’t even bother to interview. Automation and Control.
[19:37:37] <zeeshan|2> it drives me insane how slow stuff happens in academic research
[19:37:41] <zeeshan|2> it really bothers me a lot
[19:37:49] <CaptHindsight> allowing to skip degrees means leaving money on the table
[19:37:59] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: you could do that stuff back in the day
[19:38:02] <zeeshan|2> but its impossible now
[19:38:10] <furrywolf> I wanted to teach, but way, way too much politics.
[19:38:12] <tjtr33> andypugh, be an industrial teacher like for Festo or Beckhoff
[19:38:15] <zeeshan|2> unless you are some genious
[19:38:26] <zeeshan|2> who publishes some crazy paper in undergrad
[19:38:29] <zeeshan|2> and they'll take you right to phd
[19:38:31] <andypugh> When I was a student you only did a Masters if you couldn’t get a PhD. It was basically an either/or
[19:38:44] <zeeshan|2> lol andypugh that is awesome
[19:39:04] <zeeshan|2> your hinges things
[19:39:09] <zeeshan|2> is the round cylinder brazed?
[19:39:24] <andypugh> No the entire thing is carved from solid :-)
[19:39:27] <zeeshan|2> wow
[19:40:01] <andypugh> I <3 Inventor HSM CAM: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fvoINILA3ftJANrzevmNI9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:40:05] <furrywolf> ... trying to translate craigslist people to english is sometimes hard. I asked where someone was. I got "I live I'm weed via. Can I get ur address and I will come get them"
[19:40:23] <zeeshan|2> oh yes now i remember
[19:40:45] <zeeshan|2> haha furrywolf
[19:41:21] <andypugh> furrywolf: Possibly predictve text?
[19:41:39] <tjtr33> stupid newton
[19:42:51] <tjtr33> http://www.cnet.com/news/the-simpsons-eat-up-martha-was-the-first-autocorrect-fail/
[19:44:54] <zeeshan|2> man
[19:44:58] <zeeshan|2> im finding stupid papers on this topic
[19:45:03] <zeeshan|2> theyre using a 3 jaw chuck to hold the thing ring
[19:45:05] <zeeshan|2> *thin ring
[19:45:11] <zeeshan|2> and wondering why the hell it's warping
[19:45:22] <zeeshan|2> and using some weird fast tool servo system
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[19:46:01] * furrywolf notes zeeshan has never pasted a link to the question, so no one has any clue what he's talking about
[19:46:11] <zeeshan|2> i did
[19:46:12] <zeeshan|2> Consider that you are being hired as a consultant to solve a problem with geometric distortion (not being able to attain the required circularity) of thin bearing rings after a finish turning operation. How would you go about solving this problem?
[19:46:14] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: how much real world experience do your profs have?
[19:46:23] <zeeshan|2> this guy has a lot of real world experience
[19:46:28] <zeeshan|2> surprisngly
[19:46:56] <andypugh> That’s a job for a pot-chuck collet
[19:47:02] <furrywolf> I'd make a fixture to hold it rather than using the chuck.
[19:47:12] <zeeshan|2> a collet would work
[19:47:30] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: never seen a pot chuck collet before
[19:47:36] <zeeshan|2> whats it advantage over say a er 32 collet?
[19:48:10] <andypugh> It’s bigger?
[19:48:19] <furrywolf> for example, if you're turning the outside of it, turn down the end of a rod to fit the inside of it, tap the end, and screw a plate down on the end to clamp it, then turn the outside.
[19:48:20] <zeeshan|2> oh
[19:48:21] <zeeshan|2> i see it now
[19:48:24] <zeeshan|2> you're clamping from inside out
[19:48:36] <andypugh> So, you have one of these on the spindle nose:
[19:48:48] <andypugh> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f25/49759d1333540108-fs-south-bend-3c-pot-collets-closer-etc-dsc01351.jpg
[19:49:21] <andypugh> And you pull one of these into it: http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/2031716009/NEW-font-b-3AT-b-font-STEP-POT-SOFT-3-1-1-8-LATHE-font-b.jpg With a recess bored to exactly the right diameter.
[19:49:41] <furrywolf> is that single line really the entire problem? no specs on what workholder they're currently using, etc?
[19:49:52] <tjtr33> pot chuck/step collet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOzch-xng8
[19:49:57] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: exactly nothing else
[19:50:36] <zeeshan|2> please confirm
[19:50:45] <zeeshan|2> pot chuck collet holds the ring inside out ?
[19:50:53] <andypugh> No.
[19:51:20] <zeeshan|2> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/2031716009/NEW-font-b-3AT-b-font-STEP-POT-SOFT-3-1-1-8-LATHE-font-b.jpg
[19:51:23] <zeeshan|2> where does the work piece go
[19:51:28] <andypugh> If that is what you want then you want an expanding mandril. Then you train the expanded monkey to make a mandrel.
[19:52:03] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: You machine a recess specific to the job.
[19:52:12] <furrywolf> well, then as to "How would you go about solving this problem?", the answer is "I would visit my employer's place of operation to observe the current machining process, especially in regards to chucking or clamping of the part, and either devise improvements to the process or suggest an alternative workholding arrangement to resolve the issues encountered".
[19:52:58] <andypugh> To hold inside to out you need: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Expanding-Mandrels#5C-Expanding-Collets---30mm-Long
[19:53:07] <andypugh> Or: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Expanding-Mandrels#5C-Expanding-Collets---30mm-Long
[19:53:11] <zeeshan|2> i like those.
[19:53:28] <andypugh> Sorry, same URL twice there: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Expanding-Mandrels#Straight-Shank-Expanding-Mandrels-Quick-Release
[19:53:44] <furrywolf> because without knowing what they're doing now, or what level of accuracy they need, there's no way to answer the question. for all you know they're already using a precision expanding collet and complaining about a um of distortion between the jaws.
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[19:54:21] <CaptHindsight> "in addition I would bring in a Shaman to passify those looking for a spiritual solution to the problem"
[19:54:34] <furrywolf> the question gives insufficient information for you to recommend a specific technical solution.
[19:55:28] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: is that how real co's handle it? You get an email or call about some problem lacking all the real details
[19:55:38] <furrywolf> capt: yes.
[19:55:44] <furrywolf> and then it's your job to get the details
[19:56:01] <furrywolf> chances are the person who contacts you will be some management person who doesn't know a chuck from a chuckwagon...
[19:56:09] <andypugh> Some companies don’t want to give too much away when they first contact you.
[19:56:29] <CaptHindsight> first you sign the NDA as well
[19:56:38] <andypugh> (They want to see if you have any clue before going to the trouble of getting you to sign an BDA)
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[19:56:42] <andypugh> (NDA)
[19:57:03] <CaptHindsight> then you find out that they have been using soviet era surplus equipment to make the parts
[19:57:27] <CaptHindsight> and mystery metal from India
[19:57:38] <tjtr33> some of that was just stolen from germany, so quite good iron
[19:58:04] <CaptHindsight> I had a customer that didn't know why his aluminum would not anodize properly
[19:58:28] <CaptHindsight> ends up it didn't have much aluminum in it
[19:58:30] <tjtr33> not really alum?
[19:58:32] <tjtr33> haha
[19:58:33] <Crom_> the fabled demascus steel was actually from india
[19:58:36] <furrywolf> lol
[19:58:40] <andypugh> I was looking at some of that a bit ago. Quite tempted: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Centre-lathe-made-by-Stankoimport-Russian-built-/191472432989
[19:58:57] <Crom_> ahhh I'm alive now! Had my cuppa
[20:01:13] <Crom_> US Lipton tea is now just dust... Tetley's is still actaully not dust yet
[20:02:30] <andypugh> Yorkshire Tea. Accept no subsitiute
[20:02:52] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/Hk8AAOSw6aVUqn6O/$_57.JPG how is the name pronounced?
[20:03:27] <CaptHindsight> looks beefy
[20:03:29] <andypugh> Well, they were sold as Stanko-Import
[20:03:40] <Crom_> dust tea isn't back, just liptons is.. My fravorite tea is actaully pressed dust balls you can find at India shops
[20:03:41] <PetefromTn_> amazes me the kinds of streams of consciousness subject matter that we experience here. Some is quite riveting some is SOOO FREAKIN' BORING
[20:03:48] <Crom_> s/back/bad/
[20:04:15] <furrywolf> pete: dildos!
[20:04:25] <PetefromTn_> case in point
[20:04:34] <Crom_> PetefromTn_, any knowledge gained isn't boring, unless your learning boring
[20:04:42] <andypugh> I believe that “dust” is just a grade of size it is ground to. In the same way as anthracite beans are not made of beans.
[20:05:07] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf I must say that I take a great deal of comfort knowing you are on the OTHER SIDE of the country from me...
[20:05:13] <Bushman> i don't remember how but there was a way to set up secondary let's call it secondary display in linux
[20:05:16] <Bushman> not just anothe monitor...
[20:05:18] <Bushman> but rather separate desktop enviroment
[20:05:26] <Bushman> any clues how to google it up?
[20:05:40] <andypugh> On the same PC or a remote one?
[20:05:49] <Bushman> same
[20:05:59] <andypugh> Bottom left-hand corner?
[20:06:07] <Bushman> naah...
[20:06:09] <andypugh> (err, the left hand corner on the right)
[20:06:17] <Crom_> I need to figure out a way to another display on this atom board
[20:06:24] <Bushman> more like you switch to it with CTRL+ALT+F8
[20:07:53] <Crom_> umm dunno which desktop I'm running it's stock ubuntu 14.04, and they call it workspaces
[20:08:01] <tjtr33> another instance of X?
[20:08:03] <Crom_> Workspace Switcher
[20:08:13] <Bushman> not workspaces
[20:08:14] <Bushman> i have 4 of those
[20:08:26] <Bushman> more like anothe X
[20:08:36] <Bushman> but i'm not sure if there were two X's
[20:09:22] <furrywolf> somehow I can neither find a piece of lamp cord nor an extension cord I want to sacrafice, despite knowing I have both of these in abundance.
[20:09:50] <Bushman> furrywolf: happens to me every time
[20:09:59] <tjtr33> something like display 0:0 vs 0:1
[20:10:12] <Bushman> tjtr33: yea, something like that
[20:10:26] <Bushman> i did it so many years ago just once
[20:10:34] <Bushman> can't remember how to do it again
[20:10:37] <tjtr33> then you got further than I
[20:10:53] <furrywolf> I did find bright purple ricer speaker wire, but I'm not sure I want to use that to wire my mill...
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[20:14:41] <tjtr33> make that youraddr:0.0 vs youraddr:0.1 http://www.hungry.com/~jamie/xexport.html maybe of help
[20:15:32] <Crom_> well just figured out another project I need to do... CNC embroidery machine
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[20:21:10] <tjtr33> PetefromTn_, for your stream of consciousness , the classic from Ginsberg, http://sprayberry.tripod.com/poems/howl.txt
[20:22:57] <zeeshan|2> lol furrywolf
[20:23:04] <zeeshan|2> what do you want to use that for
[20:24:15] <furrywolf> yay! I has 60.7VDC.
[20:24:25] <furrywolf> zee: wire between the transformer and the bridge
[20:24:40] <furrywolf> I got some red/black zipcord for the dc wiring, but don't want to use red/black for the ac....
[20:24:46] <furrywolf> I found some brown lamp cord and used it.
[20:25:23] <furrywolf> I'm glad I purchased a bleeder resistor... this cap has impressively low self-discharge.
[20:25:36] <Crom_> ugh 16 or 18 guage zip cord
[20:25:59] <furrywolf> 16
[20:26:22] <furrywolf> 8 seconds per 0.1V drop and full voltage. not bad at all. definitely glad I got a resistor.
[20:26:23] <Crom_> I'm a fan of THHN 14ga myself
[20:26:34] <furrywolf> I am too. I'm also a fan of having things done quickly.
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[20:26:50] <furrywolf> and zipcord makes your wiring quicker and neater...
[20:26:52] <Crom_> nylon outter cover, thermo plastic inner
[20:27:10] <furrywolf> also, #14 is overkill. I'm only pulling 6A/driver.
[20:27:33] <PetefromTn_> tjtr33 thanks man..I think
[20:27:53] <Crom_> heh I have over 700' of submerged pump cord.. 4 conductor 12/3 4 wires side by size stranded
[20:28:29] <furrywolf> and I have some 0000 battery cable. your point? :P
[20:29:40] <Crom_> pump cord is great in cable chain ways
[20:30:28] <furrywolf> depends on the type. the cheapo stuff for home well pumps is coarse stranded with stuff insulation...
[20:31:13] <Crom_> yeah its standard 19 strand THHN style
[20:31:43] <furrywolf> s/stuff/stiff
[20:32:35] <Crom_> insulation isn't really stiff
[20:33:28] <furrywolf> the stuff I've used was always very stiff.
[20:34:58] <andypugh> An old machine of my dad’s was wired throughout in 3-strand cable. I have never seen that before or since
[20:35:48] <furrywolf> I've seen 3-strand wire. cut apart a chinese usb cord sometime. :P
[20:37:08] <furrywolf> wow, my cap still has 55.2V on it.
[20:37:21] <furrywolf> bleeder resistor will have to be an early project methinks.
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[20:38:14] <andypugh> Bleeder resistors can be difficult with big caps and high voltages. A crowbar relay might be easier .
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[20:39:00] <furrywolf> I got a 10W 1.2K resistor.
[20:39:43] <furrywolf> this will be 3 watts at voltage
[20:39:56] <andypugh> That’s probably fine then.
[20:40:09] <andypugh> I had 300V and 40,000uF and that was a different game
[20:42:13] <furrywolf> I have 37,000uf, but only at 60v. heh.
[20:44:29] <Bushman> ok, so what i was looking for was simply "startx <program_name> -- :1 vt8"
[20:44:33] <pcw_home> similar cap at 300V is ~25 times the stored energy so hard to have a fast enough bleed without excessive dissipation
[20:44:48] <tjtr33> Bushman, that works?
[20:45:22] <furrywolf> I'm willing to waste three watts. I could get a larger resistor, but I figure that's low enough to not waste too much of my power.
[20:46:13] <Crom_> wooo andy nice cap for a mag rail gun
[20:47:13] <furrywolf> still at 54.4V. time to clip the resistor to it with jumpers.
[20:48:09] <tjtr33> bang!
[20:49:04] <furrywolf> still going to take 30s to discharge.
[20:49:50] <pcw_home> ~45 second time constant so 45 seconds to ~24V
[20:49:58] <tjtr33> i have 37600 at 105Vdc and use several 1k 10watts across the copper bus bars joining them
[20:50:50] <furrywolf> I suspect it'll drain much faster once the drives are connected.
[20:51:04] <furrywolf> I want to avoid wasting too much power...
[20:52:57] <furrywolf> ah-ha! now the incomprehensible craigslist email makes more sense. "if I cannot make it and I wire u the money plus extra can u ship them to me"
[20:54:01] <furrywolf> wire? shipping? extra money? methinks it translates to "I'm in nigeria".
[20:56:25] <andypugh> Does anyone who isn’t a scammer even know _how_ to “wire” money?
[20:57:33] <furrywolf> lol
[20:58:06] <furrywolf> I just replied that I would, as long as they can convince me they're not in nigeria. either it turns out they're legit, or I get some unexpected scambaiting fun in. :P
[20:58:18] * furrywolf wants a sign-holding picture
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[21:02:48] <andypugh> Can’t they do Paypal?
[21:04:13] <tjtr33> cap banks at bottom http://imagebin.ca/v/1qs88DJXDs4P
[21:05:28] <furrywolf> I can't do paypal.
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[21:06:11] <furrywolf> andy: yeah, that's a fair bit larger than mine.
[21:07:37] <furrywolf> I'm planning on an enclosure about 18" square and 6" deep.
[21:07:54] <furrywolf> for 5-axis, everything including spindle control.
[21:08:33] <furrywolf> my machine is somewhat smaller than whatever that controls. :)
[21:09:39] <furrywolf> I still haven't found a good box for it. where do you get an aluminum box about that size?
[21:09:46] <furrywolf> for a reasonable price.
[21:09:59] <furrywolf> I don't have a good brake, so don't want to build it...
[21:10:18] <andypugh> furrywolf: I split the power and logic elements into two areas. PC/controller cards and monitor in the UI box, power electronics in the machine base.
[21:10:32] <furrywolf> I'm putting everything in one box.
[21:10:41] <furrywolf> and a laptop to control it.
[21:10:53] <andypugh> furrywolf: I built ine from 20x20 : https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill#5901893704840742946
[21:11:48] <andypugh> Front: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZlK_NFKt8oC7Z5unjtXjo9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[21:12:23] * furrywolf is trying to make it load
[21:12:44] <furrywolf> that just loaded a big list of images
[21:12:45] <andypugh> I bet it is redirecting to google +?
[21:12:52] <furrywolf> yes
[21:12:54] <andypugh> Evil Google!
[21:13:36] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill?no_redirect=1#5901893704840742946
[21:14:02] <andypugh> (I manually added no_redirect=1, perhaps that will help
[21:14:17] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill?no_redirect=1#5901893708363513058
[21:14:39] <furrywolf> no
[21:15:00] <tjtr33> still a mosaic
[21:15:06] <furrywolf> link to an actual jpeg image, not crap. heh.
[21:15:22] <andypugh> I wish I could
[21:15:50] <andypugh> : https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill?noredirect=1#5901893704840742946
[21:15:58] <tjtr33> imagebin pastebin videbin
[21:16:01] <PetefromTn_> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5901688686374813281/5901893708363513058?pid=5901893708363513058&oid=108164504656404380542
[21:16:02] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill?noredirect=1#5901893708363513058
[21:16:26] <andypugh> Pete that’s Google+, I am trying _not_ to give Google+ URLS
[21:16:33] <archivist> tjtr33, you forgot selfhost :)
[21:16:43] * furrywolf selfhosts
[21:16:55] <PetefromTn_> sorry
[21:16:57] <furrywolf> that finally worked
[21:16:59] <andypugh> The last two should work, it’s noredirect not no_redirect
[21:17:00] <tjtr33> yah ( and i like selfhots :)
[21:17:07] <furrywolf> that box looks like it costs more than my mill.
[21:17:31] <furrywolf> I just want a crappy aluminum alarm box or something. heh.
[21:17:32] <andypugh> It’s aboit $30 of 20x20 extrusion
[21:19:23] <furrywolf> if I do get stuck building it, I'd probably pop rivet to angle, not use fancy extrusions.
[21:20:07] <Crom_> out front next to my garage door I have a Nema3 cabinet which will be my electronics cabinet to my big cnc router when I get around to it.
[21:20:08] <andypugh> A friend built this super-fancy console for his lathe from separate extrusions and fittings: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/20131128noredirect=1#5981195064757441842
[21:20:34] <Crom_> 26" tall 20" wide, 10" deep
[21:21:07] <andypugh> Always make the cabinet at least 25% bigger than the absolute maximum that you think you need :-)
[21:21:11] <furrywolf> pop rivets are really nice, especially when you have an air pop rivet gun. :P
[21:21:29] <furrywolf> I'm making the cabinet based on the size of the pulley box on the side of the machine, so it fits onto it.
[21:22:26] <andypugh> Nah, you want to use real rivets. I made this hydraulic rivetter and now I find myself rivetting all sorts of things: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/NerACar?noredirect=1#6006362047843171890
[21:22:48] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/shoptask02.jpg it'll be the same size as the box on the side of the machine.
[21:23:05] <furrywolf> maybe 20". need to measure it. lol
[21:23:15] <furrywolf> I don't think it's a full 2ft...
[21:23:49] <furrywolf> real rivets are more work.
[21:23:52] <andypugh> At the risk of making myself unpopular. Are you sure you want to CNC that?
[21:23:53] <tjtr33> wow' i'm dismantling a shoptask now and lifting pcs up the basement stairs haha
[21:24:08] <furrywolf> andy: it was cnc before, and has all the brackets, pulleys, etc.
[21:24:24] <furrywolf> it was stripped of the motors and electronics, but all the mechanicals are still there.
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[21:24:39] <furrywolf> so the only fab work is making the box. heh.
[21:24:51] <andypugh> I CNC-ed this: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted?noredirect=1#5611904480713910226
[21:24:58] * MattyMatt expected pic of fred dibnah's hot rivet jackhammer
[21:25:04] <tjtr33> jmk cnc'd one, he had to beef up the quill. mine is just sloppy ( the rack & pinion drive )
[21:25:11] <andypugh> You will note that I then went on to CNC a real mill and I am shopping for a real lathe.
[21:25:14] <archivist> best thing is the wrench on the pallet
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[21:26:05] <furrywolf> what, you like my diamond wrench, but not my snapon swivel impact sockets? :P
[21:26:32] <archivist> I collect adjustables
[21:26:59] <andypugh> archivist: You are not like other boys are you?
[21:27:11] <furrywolf> I collect everything, or at least I think that every time I try to clean my tools up and realize the number of times I've bought another of something because I didn't know where the other ones were...
[21:27:34] <archivist> you should read jmks blog on one of those shoptask things and the propblems
[21:27:55] <furrywolf> I have very little room, so a combo machine is nice, it has decent x and y travel (but piss-poor Z), and most importantly, it was cheap.
[21:28:38] <archivist> andypugh, er no http://www.adjustable.archivist.info/
[21:28:42] <furrywolf> archivist: I have probably a half dozen adjustables of that size, two larger ones, ten of one size smaller, ten two sizes smaller, and 3-4 little 4" ones...
[21:29:23] <furrywolf> and that's the US ones. the chinese ones I don't keep track of, as they're the ones I let people borrow, knowing I'll never see them again.
[21:29:37] <andypugh> furrywolf: Go for it, by all means. You will learn a lot, including what you want in a machine tool.
[21:29:52] <furrywolf> andy: oh, I know what I want. I also know you can't always get what you want.
[21:30:21] <archivist> sometimes you just have to wait for what you want
[21:30:33] <furrywolf> I want a big 5-axis machining center with all sorts of nice bits, that's the size of my living room. :P
[21:30:55] <MattyMatt> if the milling head swing was motorised, that might form the basis of a neat autochanger
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[21:30:59] <furrywolf> I bought it for $100, which is about my budget.
[21:31:33] <tjtr33> you can remove the milling head assy and circumvent a lot of grief.
[21:31:37] <furrywolf> bbl, food
[21:31:51] <archivist> furrywolf, erm also forget about laptops, get old PCs
[21:31:54] <MattyMatt> dumpstercnc made a nice big slatbed lathe out of welded square tube etc
[21:32:21] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:33:21] <furrywolf> archivist: I got a well-used toughbook that has excellent latency figures, and the power management only screws up if I do specific things.
[21:33:28] <furrywolf> plus it's waterproof and swarfproof.
[21:33:53] <furrywolf> I'm hoping I can save up enough money to get an ethernet board from pcw, but...
[21:34:14] <furrywolf> using a $10 chinese parallel board now
[21:34:38] <furrywolf> bbl
[21:34:59] <MattyMatt> I've got some ancient thinkpads with i915, but they do have EPP on the parport. I'm hoping they'll work well enough for testing and 3d printing
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[21:37:07] <MattyMatt> but wheezy (not off the new livecd, but straight from debian) is unusable on them, so I'll have to try lucid lynx or headless
[21:38:00] <Crom_> They joys of multiple keyboards.. Looking at one screen and typing into the other keyboard
[21:38:42] <MattyMatt> 10.04 runs fine on a T40, except it doesn't see the parport
[21:39:20] <MattyMatt> latency spikes are dreadful, but hey it's an all stepper machine
[21:39:35] <Crom_> I'm running a Mini-box.com intel atom board with picoLCD 20x20 display case.. Nice little computer.. for over a year it was my TV computer
[21:40:15] <pcw_home> Ive been thinking of trying our Ethernet stuff on a Laptop
[21:40:16] <pcw_home> maybe a off lease Dell 6410/20 kind-off $200ish for a I7
[21:41:10] <pcw_home> (first or second gen)
[21:41:51] <skunksleep> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/LaptopRTnet.jpg
[21:42:05] <MattyMatt> does that do all the motion control on the card? enough so that latency won't make jaggy diagonals?
[21:42:09] <andypugh> pcw_home: I am wondering if the ethernet boards will work with a Pi
[21:42:29] <skunksleep> That is an 2nd gen i5
[21:42:50] <MattyMatt> 1st gen P4-M here :p
[21:43:00] <pcw_home> RPI might work but probably rather dismal performance
[21:43:03] <MattyMatt> the ones with EPP have celerons
[21:43:29] <andypugh> pcw_home: The new one has a 900MHz quad-core CPU so may be rather more snappy
[21:43:34] <MattyMatt> new RPI has 4 core
[21:43:36] <skunksleep> That system runs realtime very well
[21:43:42] <pcw_home> though 250 Hz servo thread is ok for step/dir
[21:44:54] <pcw_home> skunksleep: thanks I'll pick one up and try
[21:45:37] <pcw_home> is there a Preemt-RT kernel for the new RPI?
[21:45:47] <skunksleep> The clickpad sucks though..
[21:45:48] <MattyMatt> they are hard to buy atm, they only came out a week or two ago and there's always a rush
[21:46:03] <andypugh> I have one
[21:46:27] <andypugh> They were announced, I ordered one, it arrived on Wednesday
[21:46:46] <pcw_home> MattyMatt: the stepgen is on the card and the sample time is done with a DPLL so 100s of usec latency is OK
[21:46:54] <skunksleep> andypugh: is the Ethernet non USB?
[21:47:03] <andypugh> I have no idea at all
[21:47:24] <pcw_home> that may be an issue...
[21:47:26] <andypugh> It is still in the antistatic bag, in fact.
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[21:49:57] <Crom_> yea!! 66 bobbins, needles 15x1 and needle hook gears showed up! Now still waiting on cord and foot control for the newhome 2030 sewing machine
[21:50:25] <pcw_home> I need to get one of these tupperware PCs to test also
[21:50:27] <pcw_home> http://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/us/en/pdp/desktops/hp-stream-mini-desktop---200-010
[21:50:27] <andypugh> CNC sewing machine?
[21:51:28] <Tom_itx> don't make the mistake of running it thru the dishwasher
[21:51:49] <MattyMatt> there was that one you plugged a gameboy into. only available in japan
[21:51:53] <pcw_home> Or putting potato salad in it
[21:51:59] <Tom_itx> heh
[21:52:31] <_methods> mmmmm
[21:52:34] <_methods> tater salad
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[21:55:32] <skunksleep> pcw_home: some realtime.. http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/Screenshot%20from%202013-09-01%2017:59:48.png
[21:55:40] <PetefromTn_> only if it is red potato salad
[21:57:20] <skunksleep> But I remember it running the wheezy lived well also.. (Although I don't remember if it saw the wireless)
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[21:58:23] <zeeshan|2> has anyone run an edm here?
[21:59:15] <_methods> wire edm years ago
[21:59:16] <_methods> why?
[21:59:20] <zeeshan|2> im wondering
[21:59:21] <Crom_> way to many years ago pre pc days infact
[21:59:24] <zeeshan|2> when you have an electrode
[21:59:30] <zeeshan|2> does it wear equivalent to the work piece
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[21:59:36] <zeeshan|2> or can you adjust the settings so the electrode wears less
[21:59:38] <_methods> wire edm
[21:59:41] <_methods> i've never ran a sinker
[22:00:15] <Crom_> with settings just right there is almost no wear on the electrode
[22:00:47] <zeeshan|2> The major difference between ECM and EDM is that ECM uses electrolysis to remove material while EDM uses spark erosion to remove material.
[22:00:49] <Crom_> most important thing I remember is flood is your friend
[22:00:49] <zeeshan|2> is this true? :D
[22:00:54] <zeeshan|2> this is what i got out of reading a bunch of shit
[22:02:00] <Crom_> yep its true from what I remember
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[22:03:35] <zeeshan|2> this laser peening processes is crazy
[22:03:36] <zeeshan|2> never seen this before
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[22:06:41] <pcw_home> skunksleep: looks really good, I presume it gets bad if you don't disable all power management that you can
[22:10:42] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: did you hear
[22:10:53] <zeeshan|2> i moved wires from l2 to l1 , hooked up control stuff
[22:10:59] <zeeshan|2> and power cycled a bunch of times, no blow up
[22:10:59] <zeeshan|2> :D
[22:13:17] <pcw_home> I guess you are a little gun-shy now...
[22:13:30] <skunkworks> pcw_home: I don't remember doing anything in the bios
[22:14:06] <pcw_home> OK I _will_ have to get a decent used Laptop to try
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[22:19:18] <pcw_home> bbl
[22:20:12] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, theres 2 rates Vw & Ve the removak rate on work and removal rate on electrode. The settings and materials are chose to optimzie Vw ( verschlies werkstuffe )
[22:20:32] <tjtr33> in EDM
[22:21:51] <zeeshan|2> ah
[22:32:14] <andypugh> From laser peining I got to “autofrettage” and from there to a lot of engineering papers with the amusing miss-spelling “autofrottage” (which is something _quite_ different)
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[22:40:10] <FrozenCow_> i have some trouble with the latest machinekit image... it can't load hal_pru_generic
[22:40:28] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: maybe you know the answer to this q
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[22:41:45] <FrozenCow_> it gives "insmod failed, returned -1", i guess it's because it can't find the module
[22:41:47] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: Unfortunately this may not be a good place to ask about Machinekit
[22:41:50] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/XplcHkq.png
[22:41:55] <zeeshan|2> this is confusing me
[22:42:05] <zeeshan|2> how is this component in static equilibrium
[22:42:23] <FrozenCow_> I guess the machinekit docs needs updating https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit-docs/blob/master/src/common/Getting_LinuxCNC.asciidoc#irc
[22:43:06] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: In that the entire item is in compressive hoop stress?
[22:44:12] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: We know lots about LinuxCNC here. But hal_pru_generic is part of Machinekit and not LinuxCNC
[22:44:25] <zeeshan|2> yea
[22:44:28] <zeeshan|2> thats what it looks like to me
[22:44:38] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: I share your confusion.
[22:44:41] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:44:56] <zeeshan|2> i'm wondering it's because of some sort of plastic hardening
[22:45:10] <FrozenCow_> andypugh, aah ok, that's good to know... wasn't sure what was part of which ;) I guess everything Beaglebone-related is part of machinekit?
[22:45:17] <andypugh> No, I don’t think there is any explanation
[22:45:30] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: Yes, pretty much
[22:45:40] <FrozenCow_> andypugh, alright, thanks!
[22:46:02] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: If you start from the command line, and look in the log file, you may get more info.
[22:46:21] <andypugh> I suspect that some parameter after the loadrt line is wrong
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[22:47:12] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: could it be
[22:47:20] <zeeshan|2> that as you keep measuring deep enough
[22:47:27] <zeeshan|2> it'll go into tensile region?
[22:47:27] <zeeshan|2> it must
[22:47:31] <zeeshan|2> otherwise this part is moving in space
[22:47:31] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:48:07] <FrozenCow_> ya, already did that... also set DEBUG=0x7fffffff, also found the line in the code that generated the somewhat unuseful error. I think it needs to load a .ko, but I see only a .so file with the same name
[22:48:08] <andypugh> It is asymptotically tending to zero. It doesn’t look likely to find a tensile pat
[22:48:26] <FrozenCow_> andypugh, but i guess that's all PRU and thus Beaglebone related
[22:48:40] <FrozenCow_> do you know where machinekit has their IRC channel by any chance?
[22:48:43] <andypugh> Yes, and I have nevr found a hal_pru manual page
[22:49:29] <tjtr33> nor an irc channel
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[22:50:11] <FrozenCow_> k, i'll go open up an issue then ;) thanks for the help
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[22:51:16] <tjtr33> fwiw derek malloy has written a good book on the BBB ( llok for his youtubes )
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[22:54:20] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: Sorry we couldn’t help
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[22:55:11] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: fix my amc drives!
[22:55:11] <zeeshan|2> :P
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[23:00:15] <FrozenCow_> andypugh, no problem, it was just a bit confusing where to go for direct discussion for machinekit
[23:00:18] <andypugh> OK, I waved my magic wand. Do they now work?
[23:01:11] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: I searched the Machinekit docs for “pru” and got no results. It may be that I can’t work the docs.
[23:01:44] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: There is a Machinkit mailing list, you could ask there.
[23:01:47] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i think i figured it out.
[23:01:54] <zeeshan|2> theyre using x-ray diffraction to measure that profile
[23:02:07] <zeeshan|2> and x-ray diffraction is garbage after .04 mm
[23:02:26] * zeeshan|2 can't th ink of another reason
[23:02:42] <andypugh> Makes some sense, I guess
[23:03:10] <zeeshan|2> http://thermalprocessing.com/media/uploads/assets/Images/figures/2014_Fall/0914_FZG_Fig18.jpg
[23:03:21] <zeeshan|2> again
[23:03:26] <zeeshan|2> for some reason these damn graphs flatten out
[23:03:46] <andypugh> Reminds me of some (engine) cylinder pressure data I got from colleagues that went down to -150 kPa.
[23:04:23] <andypugh> I suspect that part is many mm thick, though.
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[23:11:53] <tjtr33> it works deeper than bead blasting ( shot peening ) http://www.sme.org/MEMagazine/Article.aspx?id=20229&taxid=3440
[23:13:00] <XXCoder> shoer peened lol
[23:13:09] <XXCoder> ashort
[23:18:43] <FrozenCow_> andypugh, yes, I'll post an issue on their github repo... i'm fairly certain it's just something that's missing in the image they've just distributed
[23:19:16] <tjtr33> quite a bit of that work being done at llnl , can you get access to those docs?
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[23:24:51] <andypugh> Bother, I was just about to make a suggestion to the cold bovine
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[23:34:17] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if thread milling is faster
[23:34:18] <zeeshan|2> than tapping
[23:34:22] <zeeshan|2> for a given size
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[23:37:11] <andypugh> It seems unlikely
[23:37:37] <andypugh> But for 4” threads you need a strong spindle to turn the tap
[23:38:07] <zeeshan|2> yes
[23:38:10] <zeeshan|2> im trying to compare the pros and cons
[23:38:21] <zeeshan|2> im thinking cons for thread milling: need helical pathway (cnc)
[23:38:36] <zeeshan|2> 2. slower in comparison to tapping
[23:38:56] <zeeshan|2> pros: 1. less tooling needed (no need for multiple taps)
[23:39:11] <zeeshan|2> 2. less cutting forces (imagine tapping a 1" tap)
[23:39:15] <andypugh> Con: Taps can only make standard threads. Pro: Taps will always make a standard thread.
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[23:39:29] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:40:03] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: The hal_pru source code gives clues as to the valid entries in the module parameter
[23:40:30] <andypugh> https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/hal_pru_generic/hal_pru_generic.c#L115
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[23:41:48] <andypugh> Your loadrt line can only use the string values in the RTAPI_MP_XXX( sections. So “num_pwmgens” is OK, and “pru_period “is OK. You may have something not included there?
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[23:53:08] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 you may need 2 or 3 thread mills depending on the pitch variation you plan to make
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[23:53:22] <zeeshan|2> yea but a lot of them
[23:53:24] <zeeshan|2> cover a huge range
[23:53:35] <Tom_itx> as far as taps, we used to get undersize taps so they would be a snug fit per print
[23:53:41] <Tom_itx> yes they do
[23:53:49] <Tom_itx> they are quite expensive too
[23:54:40] <zeeshan|2> 42 bux
[23:54:41] <zeeshan|2> from mari tool
[23:54:46] <Tom_itx> $5 for a tap or $50 for a threadmill
[23:54:50] <zeeshan|2> thats hell of a lot cheaper
[23:54:55] <zeeshan|2> than 1-1/4" tap
[23:55:04] <zeeshan|2> :D
[23:55:17] <andypugh> Search this web page: http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=conrods for the word “terrifying” for an interesting thread-mill thing.
[23:55:21] <zeeshan|2> ya i'd stick to tapping smaller sizes
[23:55:27] <zeeshan|2> but thread milling makes a lot more sense for weird sizes
[23:55:28] <zeeshan|2> that are large
[23:55:56] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:55:58] <Tom_itx> probably so
[23:55:59] <zeeshan|2> has better cheap evac, less cutting forces, can mill to different thread fits
[23:56:04] <zeeshan|2> if tap breaks, you're f'ed
[23:56:12] <zeeshan|2> w/ thread mill rerun g-code
[23:56:38] <zeeshan|2> the only cons i can think of are: slower, can't tap smaller sizes, requires helical path, highly dependent on the machine accuracy to create correct threads
[23:57:03] <zeeshan|2> i guess i can say expensive for smaller sizes
[23:57:54] <andypugh> M2 really is quite small
[23:58:08] <zeeshan|2> they make a m2 thread mill?
[23:58:19] <zeeshan|2> does it need to be spun at 200,000 rpm
[23:58:19] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:58:22] <andypugh> Did you follow the link?
[23:58:30] <zeeshan|2> no
[23:58:36] <zeeshan|2> your damn text comes up all funny for me
[23:58:40] <zeeshan|2> whwnever you use quotes
[23:58:42] <zeeshan|2> it destroys my irc
[23:58:45] <zeeshan|2> i still havent figured out why
[23:59:27] <zeeshan|2> okay down to 3 cons
[23:59:33] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[23:59:38] <andypugh> Search this web page: http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=conrods for the word ( terrifying ) for an interesting thread-mill thing.
[23:59:51] <zeeshan|2> back t o4 cons
[23:59:57] <zeeshan|2> "smaller thread mill sizes need high speed spindles"
[23:59:58] <zeeshan|2> :D