#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-02-06

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[00:00:01] <PetefromTn_> is it free
[00:00:12] <andypugh> So is Notepad++
[00:00:22] <furrywolf> why are you trying to to use windows to edit linux files?
[00:00:37] <andypugh> Notepad++ also does syntax highlighting and side-by-side view.
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[00:00:43] <PCW> Nick001-shop: say 64K count or above
[00:00:52] <PetefromTn_> why are you asking stupid questions LOL
[00:01:18] <PetefromTn_> thanks andy will try it here soon as I can DL it
[00:01:35] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: I am writing this as a troll question of the week:)
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[00:02:09] <furrywolf> ... it was a serious question. why would you edit linux files from windows, rather than linux? heh
[00:02:39] <LeelooMinai> There's only 1001 valid scenarios for that:p
[00:02:55] <furrywolf> nothing a bit of partition editing can't fix. :P
[00:02:58] <Nick001-shop> <PCW> and that will give 512K lines per rev of encoder?
[00:03:28] <andypugh> furrywolf: I don’t have a Linux machine with a keyboard :-)
[00:03:40] <furrywolf> heh
[00:03:59] <furrywolf> my windows machines are single-task machines for non-WINEable software, and turned off unless that specific program is needed.
[00:04:01] <PCW> no 64k count and up (which would be a 16K line encoder if they made such a hing)
[00:04:48] <furrywolf> that's a lot of lines.
[00:04:59] <PCW> I have a 16M count/turn encoder on my desk ATM
[00:05:10] <furrywolf> that's a whole lot of lines.
[00:05:12] <witnit_> how much do those cost?
[00:05:27] <Nick001-shop> <PCW> guess I'll live with some jitter when at rest. - anything on that 5i24 ?
[00:05:47] <PCW> on Ebay if you are lucky ~150
[00:06:07] <LeelooMinai> Are those encoders talks here always in context of servos in machining?
[00:06:07] <furrywolf> I have one windows machine for running my sherline, as it's currently stuck with flashcut until I build a new stepper box and linuxcnc it, and another for alldata and ondemand.
[00:06:16] <witnit_> I thought i had problems with jitter at rest, turns out my encoder setscrew was loose and it was just over compensating and bouncing hahahahahahah
[00:07:05] <PCW> No we have been behind and I've been drafted into testing
[00:07:13] <furrywolf> I can't imagine actually, you know, USING windows.
[00:07:37] <PetefromTn_> andypugh Thanks man that notepad ++ is much better..
[00:07:43] <LeelooMinai> Depends for what. I cannot imagine using Linux for desktop for example:)
[00:07:45] <renesis> thats where all the function programs live
[00:07:51] <PCW> Ill check the 5i24 resolver code tomorrow, Friday is usually slow
[00:07:57] <renesis> not trying to run solidworks or EDA packages in the lunix
[00:07:59] <_methods> sublime is nice too
[00:08:02] <renesis> geda is so sad =(
[00:08:03] <witnit_> pcw hire more people
[00:08:18] <renesis> *functional
[00:08:22] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_: It's pretty decent for a general, programmer-like, editor
[00:08:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah beats the shite out of the old one... I like it so far..
[00:08:54] <LeelooMinai> What old one? :)
[00:09:00] <PetefromTn_> notepad
[00:09:05] <_methods> some really good plugins for notepad++ too
[00:09:11] <_methods> code highlighting and stuff
[00:09:22] <witnit_> notepad++ is gooooooood
[00:09:25] <PetefromTn_> I like how it puts the little colored bars at the tops of headings
[00:09:25] <renesis> ya
[00:09:25] <LeelooMinai> lol... If notepad was more basic it would disapper pretty much - it's close to unusable, always was.
[00:09:31] <Nick001-shop> <PCW> - I thought that was being tested. I'm asking because I need to get going on this second Hardinge. I've already ordered the 2 card driver for the steppers on the Bridgeport.
[00:09:32] <witnit_> gcode highlighting too right?
[00:09:50] <witnit_> ooh nick what hardinge you have?
[00:10:00] <PetefromTn_> Nick001-shop You got ANOTHER Hardinge man?> NICE...
[00:10:04] <furrywolf> notepad, at least last time I used it, was just a text box with open and save...
[00:10:06] <andypugh> renesis: I just checked, the Geda developer isn’t on here now, but he used to be :-)
[00:10:17] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Did not change much...
[00:10:21] <furrywolf> and I mean text box as in a standard text box widget, not a generic term.
[00:10:25] <Nick001-shop> CHNC with AB controls
[00:10:29] <renesis> andypugh: there was only one!?
[00:10:32] <witnit_> I want pictures nick you got?
[00:10:34] <renesis> because that would explain a lot
[00:10:36] <PetefromTn_> I have been running these parts today and so far the machine is running perfect as usual LOL
[00:10:41] <LeelooMinai> Notepad++ shares only name with it - it's not Microsoft's doing, just some independent freeware
[00:10:44] <renesis> and geda was such a loose collection of non integrated tools
[00:10:46] <andypugh> renesis: Dunno.
[00:11:57] <renesis> if i needed eda for free again id prob try kicad, seems to have come a long way since i tried it forever ago
[00:12:06] <Nick001-shop> I actually have 3 of them - all with dead AB controls. The first one I did has Pico cards in it and I want to try Mesa's stuff in the next one.
[00:12:38] <andypugh> renesis: I am liking DesignSpark (though windows only, I think)
[00:12:40] <renesis> and i dont think there is anything comparable to solidworks for linux
[00:12:41] <PetefromTn_> mesa rocks man..
[00:12:45] <LeelooMinai> Ok, so encoders - are they only use in machining with servos?
[00:12:51] <LeelooMinai> used*
[00:12:53] <PetefromTn_> no
[00:13:04] <LeelooMinai> What else?
[00:13:07] <PetefromTn_> encoders are used in spindle motors and whatnot too
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[00:13:18] <PetefromTn_> basically anywhere you need to track speed or position
[00:13:20] <PetefromTn_> on a motor
[00:13:30] <LeelooMinai> But arent's spindle motors rotating according to AC frequency anyways?
[00:13:40] <renesis> you can put them on steppers for error detection, i dont think itll use them for feedback
[00:13:40] <Nick001-shop> I also have a Bridgeport series 1 that seems to have died. Can't get it out of Estop so it's time for that one also.
[00:13:40] <furrywolf> no
[00:13:58] <PetefromTn_> I understand that the Hardinge CNC lathes have some real funky motors on them with a special sort of resolver or something
[00:14:21] <furrywolf> induction motors slip and spin at less than the ac frequency, may be variable speed, and for operations such as threading, their exact position needs to be known.
[00:14:40] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, my AC spindle has two drilled dots on the side of the collet nut - I was wondering if they did it to balance it or maybe there's some attachment that could use them for counting rpm
[00:14:41] <PetefromTn_> and the pneumatics are quite elaborate as they control the drawbars as well as the toolchangers etc. etc.
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[00:15:32] <Nick001-shop> the motors are ok and they do have resovers instesd of encoders. The mesa cards would be cost effective for the resolvers which are good.
[00:16:45] <LeelooMinai> Found a similar image. They look like this: http://i.imgur.com/gRkfq65.png
[00:17:01] <LeelooMinai> Any idea what's the purpose of those?
[00:17:04] <PetefromTn_> I am glad I got the lathe I have here but I seriously think I may have to have one of those CHNC's in the shop at some point LOL
[00:17:07] <Nick001-shop> Just want to get rid of the tachs as they are always needing to be cleaned and they are a PITA to get at.
[00:17:36] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is what I was thinking..
[00:17:42] <furrywolf> hrmm. I'm not sure why you'd try balancing the nut, which would be tightened in different positions, so... no idea.
[00:17:46] <PetefromTn_> the tacks are a bitch I hear.
[00:17:53] <andypugh> Nick001-shop: I like the 7i49. Lots of effective encoder counts.
[00:18:07] <furrywolf> unless the nut is really out of balance...
[00:18:16] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Chinese tend not to add things that are unnecessary, so I guess they are for... something...
[00:18:21] <Nick001-shop> The one I have converted will split a tenth like they originally did
[00:18:27] <andypugh> furrywolf: ER nuts are inherently out of balance
[00:18:34] <renesis> leeloominai: reused scrap!
[00:19:04] <PetefromTn_> that's so kickass man..
[00:19:07] <andypugh> There is an eccentric collar in an ER nut to extract the collet. So they don’t balance
[00:19:16] <furrywolf> ah
[00:19:24] <furrywolf> so, in that case, they're probably for balance. :P
[00:19:26] <LeelooMinai> I had strange idea that maybe one can use IR emitter/receiver put on those dots to count revolution, but it's a bit far fetched:)
[00:19:27] <mozmck> I've used kicad quite a bit, and it has improved a lot over the last few years.
[00:19:50] <andypugh> That’s the first one I have seen with holes to compensate, but it makes perfect sense. A sign of unusually hivgh quality. :-)
[00:19:55] <renesis> mozmck: yeah lots of people say so
[00:19:57] <PetefromTn_> MMmmmmm Ravioli's...
[00:20:02] <renesis> when i tried it most of the docs were in french
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[00:20:05] <mozmck> They plan another stable release before long now - after deciding people didn't need one a while back :)
[00:20:22] <Nick001-shop> andyugh - I want to keep the resolvers so I also need a 7i49HV to drive them
[00:20:25] <LeelooMinai> I recommend DipTrace over KiCAD, as always:)
[00:20:35] <renesis> meh @ dicktrace
[00:20:57] <renesis> i did some layouts for someone in it, and the amount of frustration was mind blowing
[00:21:07] <LeelooMinai> KiCAD is too much like any other Linux GUI application - a bit of usability abomination
[00:21:07] <renesis> like, it would constantly reposition my traces
[00:21:37] <renesis> id spend 3 minutes dropping a trace over and over trying to figure out how to get it to let me keep the one i laid down previously
[00:21:53] <renesis> from what ive heard they added some sort of ctrl function to disable that
[00:21:54] <LeelooMinai> renesis: Not sure what you were doing there, but DipTrace is probably one of the most user-friendly EDAs ther
[00:21:56] <PetefromTn_> that shit sounds painful
[00:22:00] <mozmck> heh, I've used linux for my desktop for years, and windows plenty as well. usability is nothing more than whatever you are used to.
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[00:22:06] <renesis> leeloominai: right, it was thinking to hard for me
[00:22:29] <renesis> i just wanted it to do what i said not try to optomize position based on some random fuckin algorithm
[00:23:04] <LeelooMinai> What were you autorouting or something? :) No one does that...
[00:23:17] <renesis> it wasnt horrible, i finished the projects quick enough to equate to like $40-50/hr, but it pissed me off compared to eagle
[00:23:23] <renesis> no normal routing
[00:23:31] <renesis> eagle felt like EDA for kids
[00:23:40] <LeelooMinai> https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/14248405503_a47ed6bb0f.jpg :)
[00:23:44] <renesis> which is a lot like multisim/ultiboard
[00:23:47] <furrywolf> I've never used an eda program I liked.
[00:24:00] <renesis> but electronics workbench just handled ease of use better
[00:24:06] <renesis> i like eagle
[00:24:12] <LeelooMinai> I tried all of them. Liked DipTrace the most. Use pirated Altium:)
[00:24:13] <renesis> less since they made the UI more intuitive
[00:24:22] <andypugh> As I said, designspark is pretty much OK. It’s free from RS.
[00:24:26] <renesis> the UI was a bit crackish to learn, but its console cad
[00:24:36] <renesis> incredibly fast once you have the control down
[00:25:08] <renesis> and you can do damn near anything, i think the only issue was creative hacks for arbitrily shaped smd pads
[00:25:10] <LeelooMinai> Console CAD...
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[00:25:18] <renesis> you had to fake it and ignore some of the DRC errorsa
[00:25:25] * LeelooMinai tries to imagine routing traces with commands
[00:25:40] <renesis> ive done it a ton
[00:25:41] <LeelooMinai> "must be some Linux thing"
[00:25:45] <andypugh> If anyone is interested: http://www.rs-online.com/designspark/electronics/eng/page/designspark-pcb-home-page
[00:25:46] <renesis> also component placement
[00:25:52] <mozmck> I used kicad because the free version of eagle would not let me make the first project I needed to make (too large a board), beside the fact that I couldn't make heads or tails of it.
[00:25:55] <renesis> leeloominai: multiplatform
[00:25:55] <andypugh> But as I said, Windows only.
[00:26:07] <renesis> mozmck: yeah thats an issue
[00:26:13] <renesis> but eagle pricing is very, very fair
[00:26:13] * furrywolf isn't interested in more windows software
[00:26:19] <andypugh> (Suits me as I get most of my components from RS too)
[00:26:20] <LeelooMinai> renesis: Ever try to become a pianist? :)
[00:26:21] <renesis> it runs in linux native?
[00:26:25] <furrywolf> in fact, I'm quite intent on getting rid of the two windows boxes I'm stuck with.
[00:26:27] <renesis> also macs
[00:26:42] <renesis> so im not sure what youre referring to
[00:26:47] <Connor> RadioShack Declares bankruptcy, Sells 2400 stores to Sprint, remaining to be closed.
[00:26:57] <renesis> closed is official now?
[00:26:57] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: You will be left with a monitor and terminal windows:)
[00:27:08] <furrywolf> "World’s first truly FREE and unrestricted electronics design software." ... lol
[00:27:11] <andypugh> Connor: Radio Spares, Not Radio Shack
[00:27:16] <renesis> the WSJ article like an hour ago didnt mention what they would do with the remaining stores
[00:27:48] <andypugh> Connor: They trade as “Allied” in the US I think.
[00:27:55] <furrywolf> it's not the first free-as-in-beer program, and it's not free-as-in-speech. so... that's total bullshit.
[00:28:01] <renesis> leeloominai: no i just like holding down the synth keys and playing with the knobs!
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[00:28:17] <renesis> eagle? or kicad?
[00:28:34] <renesis> eagle isnt free, ir just runs on linux and macs and is very capable, very fairly priced
[00:28:35] <andypugh> Eagle is restricted in the free version.
[00:28:37] <furrywolf> the one andy pasted
[00:28:44] <furrywolf> that's a quote from their website.
[00:28:48] <Connor> Well... I buy stuff from them around 6 or more times a year... kinda sucks.. we have no Frys or anything near by..
[00:28:53] <renesis> oh, yeah never used it
[00:29:10] <renesis> i would go there when i needed RCA to BNC adapters in less than an hour
[00:29:15] <renesis> maybe every couple years
[00:29:25] <renesis> i was prob one of the more consistent customers, haha
[00:29:40] <Connor> The 4 pin CB connectors... relays, project boxes.. PCB Proto boards..
[00:29:44] <andypugh> You are talking about RadioShack now?
[00:29:49] <renesis> ya
[00:29:59] <andypugh> RS is not at all the same thing.
[00:30:02] <renesis> connor: at like 500% markup =\
[00:30:12] <renesis> no radioshack just declared bankruptcy
[00:30:14] <Connor> yea, But, I'm impatient.
[00:30:14] <renesis> why its a topic
[00:30:26] <renesis> right, thats when i would use radioshack
[00:30:33] <renesis> when i wouldnt wait for digikey or mouser
[00:30:42] <Connor> andypugh: RadioShack Declares bankruptcy, Sells 2400 stores to Sprint, remaining to be closed.
[00:30:49] <furrywolf> meh, radio shack is dead? while I've never loved them, that's still sad.
[00:30:50] <PetefromTn_> thats how I feel about fastenal..
[00:30:51] <renesis> like, im at work and i want to connect the DUT to the test gear without making a stupid cable
[00:30:51] <andypugh> RS is a huge electronics and industrial catalogue, I think they sell a slightly wider range than Farnell
[00:31:04] <renesis> furrywolf: they had it coming, honestly
[00:31:11] <furrywolf> fastenal pisses me off. every time I go in there, I leave empty handed, and annoyed.
[00:31:14] <renesis> theyve spent the last 20 years living on 100 years of momentum
[00:31:35] <PetefromTn_> I was in there today buying fasterners..
[00:31:39] <furrywolf> despite their name, they have LESS selection that a generic hardware store, and if you try ordering anything, their prices and ordering fees are fucking stupid.
[00:31:45] <furrywolf> s/that a/than a
[00:31:47] <Connor> They could have made a massive turn around in the past 5 years with the Maker Movement...
[00:31:59] <andypugh> I guess they were killed by teh interweb, because I get the impression that electronics hobby-ism is on the way up.
[00:32:00] <renesis> theyre managed by old people, is my guess
[00:32:14] <PetefromTn_> maybe in your store but the one near me is pretty nice and well stocked with hardware
[00:32:20] <Connor> if they had better positioned themselves and priced stuff more competitively.. and stocked up on more useful stuff..
[00:32:30] <furrywolf> connor: radio shack was just now getting into the maker stuff... one of the local stores was installing a public-use 3D printer, an electronics workbench with power supplies, breadboards, bins of parts, etc,...
[00:32:41] <renesis> instead of cell phones and cheap a/v accessories...
[00:32:42] <Connor> I know.
[00:32:47] <Connor> err. furrywolf I know.
[00:32:50] <renesis> they tried to get into 3d printing but their prices are dumb
[00:32:54] <XXCoder> just read news that they may close half and sell rest to some company?
[00:32:56] <Tom_itx> the one around here turned into mostly a phone and toy store
[00:32:58] <renesis> you want a tip for an extruder? $40
[00:33:01] <Rab> Connor, surely you jest. They tried that, they've been selling Arduinos and Parallax stuff for a while. Hobby electronics isn't going to sustain 2,400 stores.
[00:33:02] <renesis> for just the screw in tip
[00:33:29] <renesis> if they had an extruder assembly, which i would consider buying, they would prob charge $200
[00:33:34] <furrywolf> sprint is probably going to ditch the electronics entirely and just turn them into cell phone stores...
[00:33:37] <PetefromTn_> we had one in the Mall here and it was kinda like that tom
[00:33:38] <Connor> Rab: I don't think they tried hard enough. Sure, they carried some of that stuff.. but not enough..
[00:33:44] <renesis> furrywolf: i believe thats the plan
[00:33:59] <renesis> i dont think they are making any attempt to salvage the business
[00:34:08] <furrywolf> this means that a large portion of the population will no longer have any local option to buy any electronics components.
[00:34:21] <Rab> Connor, if they had, you'd be able to buy it on clearance soon. ;)
[00:34:23] <renesis> just more accessory and cell plan shops, i think the biggest gain for them is their name on more minimall signs
[00:34:43] <Connor> Rab: I'll be able to buy some stuff at clearance.
[00:34:50] <renesis> rab: i wonder, or if they just sell it all bulk to surplus or who knows
[00:35:04] <XXCoder> radiohack brand phones :P
[00:35:08] <Connor> Probably not worth shipping some of it back.
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[00:35:13] <Rab> Probably some deals to be had.
[00:35:14] <renesis> i dont even think they had a brand?
[00:35:22] <Rab> Archer, Realistic
[00:35:25] <PetefromTn_> hard to compete with online electronics suppliers no matter what you do....
[00:35:27] <Connor> I have a nice digital Solder Iron that's branded Radioshack
[00:35:28] <renesis> they would just sell othger companies plans, i cant imagine they made a ton of money on sales
[00:35:55] <renesis> rab: they sold cell phones under those names?
[00:36:06] <Rab> renesis, not AFAIK.
[00:36:09] <Connor> PetefromTn_: My problem with online is that it requires planning... When you in the middle of a project and you forget or Run out of Crimps, or need a project box.. you have to wait 3 days ?
[00:36:24] <PetefromTn_> yup
[00:36:31] <tjtr33> the asian electronics stores are fulla hackers. they got pcbs for all hi-d smts plus chips programmers scopes probes. and if theres 1 store, the whole block is those stores. asia will have the inventors and we wont.
[00:36:32] <PetefromTn_> but it is what it is..
[00:36:33] <renesis> okay ya, i just knew those as their a/v brands
[00:36:49] <renesis> tjtr33: truth
[00:36:51] <PetefromTn_> I can count on two hands the number of times I ran to that store for stuff tho over the years..
[00:37:08] <renesis> my friend said when he lived in hong kong, when the schools let out, the electronics shops would be flooded with kids
[00:37:11] <PetefromTn_> often they did not have what I needed anyway
[00:37:13] <renesis> i bet thats never been the case here
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[00:37:16] <furrywolf> three days only if you pay for express shipping... otherwise wait a week! or three if you get economy shipping.
[00:37:35] <furrywolf> smartpost 7-21 days, ups ground 6-8 days,...
[00:37:45] <Connor> I uses USPS when ordering most of my stuff.. it's pretty quick.. 3 days
[00:37:51] <PetefromTn_> you must live in alaska or something LOL
[00:37:52] <Connor> smartpost BLOWS CHUNKS
[00:38:01] <furrywolf> I use usps whenever I can, but some places insist on using UPS.
[00:38:04] <renesis> petefromtn_: rural n cali is not that bad, but its close
[00:38:11] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[00:38:16] <furrywolf> UPS is so bad I actively avoid shopping at any place that only ships UPS unless I can't find another option.
[00:38:19] <PetefromTn_> I get most stuff within a week easy
[00:38:24] <Connor> I like McMaster, I can have stuff here next day.
[00:38:26] <renesis> USPS was sometimes overnight in los angeles
[00:38:32] <PetefromTn_> yeah mcmaster kicks ass...
[00:38:48] <furrywolf> mcmaster is too expensive to shop at. I've never ordered from them to see what their shipping time is.
[00:38:49] <renesis> connor: ya! they would deliver to me in a van same day, dude with a clipboard
[00:38:53] <Rab> I'm 200 miles from Allied and Mouser, parts come next day with ground shipping. ^_^
[00:38:54] <renesis> was like, wow really?
[00:39:04] <Connor> You live in Atlanta ?
[00:39:14] <renesis> me?
[00:39:17] <Connor> yea.
[00:39:21] <PetefromTn_> you get what you pay for...
[00:39:23] <renesis> no i lived in los angeles
[00:39:26] <Connor> Oh.
[00:39:35] <furrywolf> I'm 200 miles from the same thing I'm 2 miles from... lots of trees.
[00:39:38] <renesis> sometimes they would need to ship out of their other warehouse
[00:39:48] <renesis> but like 90% of the stuff came local, day to deliver tops
[00:39:52] <Rab> McMaster has regional warehouses. There's a big one in GA, and another one northeast...not sure where else.
[00:39:54] <tjtr33> mcmaster is next day on front porch in chicago
[00:39:54] <renesis> cheapest ship option
[00:40:03] <renesis> rab: def one in los angeles
[00:40:05] <Rab> Must be west coast too.
[00:40:07] <renesis> big one
[00:40:15] <Connor> I like getting stuff from New Egg.. Memphis and NJ are close..
[00:40:22] <renesis> almost none of my stuff is split into other shipments
[00:40:34] <renesis> like, i order a tiny loctite tube, and that shit will come out of GA
[00:40:39] <renesis> rest of the order, same day
[00:41:03] <furrywolf> USPS Priority is here in 3 days... ups ground is always a week, and smartpost always two or more.
[00:41:10] <furrywolf> smartpost is THE FUCKING WORST mail system ever.
[00:41:17] <Rab> The GA warehouse doesn't seem to stock a lot of raw materials, those tend to come elsewhere if more than qty 1 or so.
[00:41:20] <renesis> i dont even know what smartpost is
[00:41:29] <furrywolf> I think they're slower than the 1800s horseback mailmen...
[00:41:32] <Connor> Smartpost is Fed Ex crap.. UPS has something like it too that's a tad better.
[00:41:48] <furrywolf> UPS Mail Innovations I've only seen once, and it was just as bad as smartpost.
[00:41:52] <Connor> renesis: They FED EX the package to the local USPS and let USPS do last mile delivery.
[00:41:52] <renesis> i dont like how ups and fedex use usps for last mile now
[00:41:55] <Rab> Haha, it's FedEx's deal with USPS to race to the bottom.
[00:41:57] <renesis> they will dick you areound on tracking
[00:41:58] <andypugh> Super-wasteful, look at the pile of swarf, but I got the job done at last. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fvoINILA3ftJANrzevmNI9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[00:42:03] <renesis> neither side takes responsibility
[00:42:04] <furrywolf> UPS took, if I remember right, a week and a half to go 500 miles.
[00:42:16] <CaptHindsight> heh gmail tosses anyone sending from yahoo mail into the spam folder
[00:42:29] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Yes, that’s Yahoos fault.
[00:42:31] <Connor> renesis: Yea.. Last Mile Fed Ex via USPS is SmartPost
[00:42:33] <Rab> Amazon uses Smartpost and Mail Innovations for their free shipping, it stinks.
[00:42:39] <renesis> ups does it too
[00:42:47] <PetefromTn_> nice andy
[00:42:51] <renesis> rab: ive gotten shit from amazon on sunday
[00:42:51] <CaptHindsight> yeah the two worst mailing co's
[00:42:56] <renesis> its like, cmon guys, rest
[00:42:59] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: It’s only messages that have been munged by a mailing list, which breaks some stupid security tag that Yahoo have
[00:42:59] <Connor> renesis: Yes, but it's called something else, and is a tad faster..
[00:43:01] <PetefromTn_> whaddahell is it?
[00:43:05] <tjtr33> pretty andy
[00:43:12] <Rab> renesis, same, USPS as carrier. I think they're really hungry.
[00:43:16] <furrywolf> much of smartpost isn't fedex. they sub all the transport out to other companies on an available-space basis, so they can make sure their trucks are full. if no partially full trucks are available, it can sit around indefinitely.
[00:43:21] <renesis> rab: its kind of scary
[00:43:36] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I was wondering why only some people on the mailing list were always getting dropped
[00:43:40] <renesis> they went from, were gonna stop on saturdays, to fuckit well do sundays
[00:43:48] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Details here: http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy-destroys-every.html
[00:44:01] <andypugh> Gmail are doing exactly what Yahoo say they should...
[00:44:08] <furrywolf> it works for other transport companies, because they can put the spare space on their trucks to use, albeit at a piss-poor rate. it works for fedex, because they can get away with barely paying, but still get stuff moved around. it works for companies, because they can advertise "standard shipping" without telling you what it is, and fuck you over.
[00:44:35] <renesis> i dont feel fucked over furrywolf
[00:44:40] <renesis> i got packages on sunday
[00:44:47] <renesis> in two days, for cheapest shipping
[00:44:48] <Connor> renesis: Via Smartpost ?
[00:45:00] <renesis> i dont remember if it was initially ups or fedex
[00:45:09] <furrywolf> I feel fucked over when a place tells me "standard shipping", and it takes THREE FUCKING WEEKS to get here, care of fedex, when I could have ordered it straight from china for half the cost and half the time to get it.
[00:45:16] <Connor> Oh and FedEx home delivery sucks too.
[00:45:23] <furrywolf> smartpost isn't standard shipping. it's substandard shipping.
[00:45:26] <renesis> standard shipping means roll dice
[00:45:34] <CaptHindsight> Fedex for me is usually bad
[00:45:48] <renesis> if it doesnt say a timeline, i wouldnt expect it to hold to any
[00:45:52] <PetefromTn_> the lady across the street from me is a fedex driver...she's realy nice and hand delivers everything to me LOL
[00:46:02] <renesis> haha cool
[00:46:02] <Connor> PetefromTn_: ROFL
[00:46:13] <PetefromTn_> I'm serious!
[00:46:22] <Connor> Okay, so from RadioShack closing, to Shipping companies..
[00:46:28] <Connor> how about packages via Drones! :)
[00:46:29] -!- TTN has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[00:46:44] <furrywolf> in fact, someone on ebay is about to get negative feedback for smartpost. I bought a listing where the shipping information said usps first class. they shipped it smartpost instead. so far it's taken a week to go from IL to TX.
[00:46:51] <furrywolf> lying about shipping method -> negative feedback.
[00:46:54] <zeeshan|2> what kind of carbide
[00:46:56] <CaptHindsight> fedex from China is the worst, customs will want some simple 1 page form and Fedex will take 3 days or 1 hour on the phone to tell me about it
[00:46:57] <zeeshan|2> er
[00:47:04] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: FIX FOR ME!!
[00:47:13] <zeeshan|2> rab connor fix for me!!
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[00:47:22] <Connor> zeeshan|2: Fix what ?
[00:47:27] <PetefromTn_> dafuq?
[00:47:31] <zeeshan|2> explain why drive blow up
[00:47:35] <CaptHindsight> his broken shite
[00:47:40] <Connor> AMC not said anything yet ?
[00:47:45] <Rab> zeeshan|2, third one died?
[00:47:46] <zeeshan|2> she wanted more info
[00:47:49] <tjtr33> drone delivery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmHwXf8JUOw
[00:47:52] <zeeshan|2> rab haven't plugged it in
[00:47:57] <zeeshan|2> w/ z motor stuff
[00:48:04] <zeeshan|2> Please answer the additional questions I asked you below. I think there is a potential grounding issue. Is this a system that was running for some time before it failed or is this a completely new application?
[00:48:13] <Connor> zeeshan|2: What more info she want ?
[00:48:20] <zeeshan|2> serial #
[00:48:23] <zeeshan|2> wiring diagrams
[00:48:41] <Connor> Well Good! They're working with you!
[00:48:43] <zeeshan|2> i gave her additional info too
[00:48:46] <zeeshan|2> servo motor winding resistance -- 1.8 ohm (in spec) servo motor winding to servo motor case resistance -- 8.8 Mohm servo motor case to earth resistance - 0.2 ohm servo motor brake coil to servo motor case resistance -- infinite servo motor tachometer winding to servo motor case resistance -- infinite
[00:48:46] <CaptHindsight> Question #4 Do you like to watch Gladiator films?
[00:48:47] <Rab> Those seem like reasonable things to request.
[00:49:11] <PetefromTn_> hehehehe
[00:49:11] <zeeshan|2> i asked her what the component under the 4700 mH inductor is too
[00:49:21] <zeeshan|2> i know mr furry requested that info
[00:49:22] <zeeshan|2> :P
[00:49:42] <furrywolf> ask them for a schematic. :P
[00:49:45] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:49:49] <zeeshan|2> yea i doubt they'll give that!
[00:49:54] <zeeshan|2> im gonna double check the motor again
[00:49:57] <zeeshan|2> with 2 diff multimeters
[00:50:05] <furrywolf> sure they will! they'll just redact all the symbols and part numbers. :P
[00:50:10] <furrywolf> just like the board. heh.
[00:50:33] <zeeshan|2> a diode will be shown as a polygon
[00:50:45] <zeeshan|2> a resistor will have a capacitance value
[00:50:49] <CaptHindsight> schematic without part numbers or part values
[00:51:05] <zeeshan|2> by grounding issue
[00:51:13] <furrywolf> capt: have you seen the board? they sanded the top off EVERY non-trivial part.
[00:51:14] <zeeshan|2> she means the drive ground to earth?
[00:51:17] <furrywolf> even things like transistors
[00:51:23] <CaptHindsight> yeah, saw the parts
[00:51:43] <CaptHindsight> yeah top secret
[00:52:09] <CaptHindsight> one step from placing parts that do nothing just to throw you off
[00:52:19] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:53:03] <furrywolf> I have some stepper drives that are potted with aluminum oxide filled epoxy, to resist grinding and dissolving.
[00:53:06] <XXCoder> wonder if can find semeric online based on model #
[00:53:08] <Connor> Just be glade they didn't use negative voltage mil-spec stuff..
[00:53:13] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: http://xkcd.com/730/ ?
[00:53:15] <XXCoder> work by some people annoyed by sanded off chips
[00:53:41] <CaptHindsight> ecl soviet surplus
[00:53:55] <zeeshan|2> rofl AndChat|31961
[00:53:56] <zeeshan|2> andypugh:
[00:54:45] <andypugh> Talking about parts that do nothing… I read about someone who used a genetic algorithm to produce an FPGA layout. He ended up with something really good, but with a bunch of random unconnected stuff too, so he removed all that. And it stopped working..
[00:54:59] <furrywolf> lol
[00:55:14] <furrywolf> I've played with generic algorithms like that, and yes, most of it ends up being dead.
[00:55:20] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/abmmue9j5bwostk/Master%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf?dl=0
[00:55:23] <zeeshan|2> Q for you guys
[00:55:26] <Connor> andypugh: So, Um, it did something ?
[00:55:28] <zeeshan|2> looking at my load diagram
[00:55:52] <zeeshan|2> when i power off spindle vfd, hyd pump coolant pump , x drive y drive
[00:55:56] <zeeshan|2> (a c are not powered)
[00:55:57] <andypugh> Connor: Yeah, probably some wierd coupling on the board or in the chip. Probably unreliable as hell too.
[00:56:04] <zeeshan|2> theres a load misbalance of like 20 A
[00:56:08] <zeeshan|2> could this cause the drive to blow up
[00:56:21] <zeeshan|2> because for a second or so
[00:56:21] <Rab> zeeshan|2, between L1 and L2?
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[00:56:26] <zeeshan|2> the neutral goes to 20A.
[00:56:31] -!- AndChat|31961 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[00:56:31] <zeeshan|2> rab yes
[00:56:38] <Rab> I doubt it, but I dunno.
[00:56:48] <furrywolf> only if you have a bad neutral. which I asked you several times to make sure was good. :P
[00:56:52] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: I can hardly read the text, can you please try a different shade of white text on a white background? :p
[00:57:02] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: have you seen the zoom button on the top?
[00:57:03] <zeeshan|2> :)
[00:57:11] <zeeshan|2> and the background option in adobe? :)
[00:57:14] * zeeshan|2 hides
[00:57:17] <Tom_itx> does steplen and stepspace set the frequency for stepgen?
[00:57:33] <zeeshan|2> i forgot
[00:57:36] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Only indirectly
[00:57:37] <zeeshan|2> the people in here are 80 years old!
[00:57:38] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[00:57:40] <zeeshan|2> jk
[00:57:55] * zeeshan|2 needs to make lame jokes to feel better about the problem i have
[00:57:59] <Rab> You'll get there soon enough.
[00:58:00] <CaptHindsight> <--- uses Okular
[00:58:03] <Tom_itx> andypugh, what sets the frequency then?
[00:58:10] <furrywolf> <-- uses xpdf
[00:58:17] <andypugh> Tom_itx: If you want a fixed frequency use a velocity-mode stepgen and a velocity input pin appears
[00:58:22] <zeeshan|2> you different wannabe ppl!
[00:58:28] <Tom_itx> i have it set for velocity mode
[00:58:34] <Tom_itx> i'm not getting any output yet
[00:58:41] <andypugh> Then there should be a velocity pin
[00:58:42] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: what do i need to check for neutral
[00:59:00] <furrywolf> a 'scope. :P
[00:59:05] <furrywolf> or a meter with a fast min/max mode.
[00:59:10] <zeeshan|2> it didnt blow up the bulb i put in place
[00:59:13] <zeeshan|2> for l2
[00:59:17] <furrywolf> then it's probably fine.
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[00:59:19] <CaptHindsight> which drive in the diagram blowded up?
[00:59:23] <zeeshan|2> Z
[00:59:28] <zeeshan|2> A and C are unconnected
[00:59:39] <furrywolf> because any device that runs off mains power and can't handle a surge too small to blow a lightbulb shouldn't be sold. heh.
[00:59:51] <atom1> net spindle-freq <= scale.2.out => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.03.velocity-cmd
[01:00:01] <furrywolf> did the light bulb ever flash brightly?
[01:00:05] <zeeshan|2> no
[01:00:21] <furrywolf> then it's probably not a mains power surge.
[01:00:21] <Tom_itx> i'm not exactly what the scale should be on this though
[01:00:35] <furrywolf> also, the way it's built, I'd expect a mains surge to blow the onboard shunt regulator first...
[01:00:40] <CaptHindsight> oh you wired all the drives up the same way and only Z blew up?
[01:00:52] <zeeshan|2> capt yea only exception is l2 for z
[01:00:56] <furrywolf> capt: it blew, then its replacement blew.
[01:00:58] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: i read the device spec sheet
[01:01:06] <furrywolf> l2, and being connected to the z motor.
[01:01:08] <Rab> zeeshan|2, was power applied to the A and C drives when Z blew?
[01:01:10] <zeeshan|2> it has overcurrent, shortcircuit protection for servo
[01:01:17] <zeeshan|2> undervoltage and overvoltage protection for mains
[01:01:25] <zeeshan|2> and also overvoltage protection for back feeding from motor
[01:01:37] <zeeshan|2> rab a and c are always unconnected
[01:01:40] <zeeshan|2> fuse removed
[01:02:09] <PCW> Tom_itx_ if you want 25KHz for example set the scale to 25000 and then a velocity of 1 will get you 25 KHz
[01:02:14] <zeeshan|2> i dunno how to check for grounding
[01:02:23] <zeeshan|2> other than measure resistance between drive chassis to earth bar
[01:02:28] <zeeshan|2> or motor case to earth bar
[01:02:36] <atom1> PCW, i'm starting from the example they had for this board
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[01:02:51] <andypugh> Time to be gone.
[01:02:55] <zeeshan|2> nite AndroUser2
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[01:02:57] <zeeshan|2> andy
[01:03:10] <atom1> PCW, http://cnc4pc.com/Files/EMC2.txt
[01:03:10] <CaptHindsight> and you are really really sure that you had L1 IN to Line 2 and Neutral to Neutral?
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[01:03:27] <atom1> they're using a parport though
[01:04:13] <PCW> yeah dont set steptime to 1 :-)
[01:04:32] <atom1> steplen?
[01:04:38] <PCW> yeah
[01:04:52] <atom1> that would be a very short pulse
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[01:05:21] <CaptHindsight> what section of the drive blew up? I saw the pics but what area is that?
[01:05:35] <atom1> PCW, i wonder why they have stepspace set to 0 too
[01:05:36] <PCW> yep (probably rounded up by the driver to the resolution so 10 ns )
[01:06:08] <PCW> they are relying on thread/parallel port timings
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[01:07:02] <atom1> i'll post what i have
[01:07:27] <PCW> so if its 25 KHz max maybe set steptime for 50% duty cycle at 25 KHz = 20000 ns
[01:08:59] <PCW> probably dont need the scaler component if the position scale is set right
[01:09:19] <atom1> for each steplen and stepspace?
[01:09:30] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: any idea was area those parts that blew up are in? http://imagebin.ca/v/1qfI8FWlLp12
[01:10:13] <Rab> CaptHindsight, power supply filter capacitors for MOSFET drivers, among other things.
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[01:11:06] <Rab> There's a switch-mode PS in the upper right, filter cap and pass transistor blew on at least one of the boards.
[01:11:21] <atom1> PCW, i'm not exactly sure what they're doing with the scale component there
[01:11:37] <PCW> bbl Dinner!
[01:11:55] <CaptHindsight> looks like overvoltage on those caps
[01:12:01] <furrywolf> I suspect everything on that power rail is blown.
[01:12:30] <CaptHindsight> did the drive ever work or did it die on first try?
[01:12:40] <furrywolf> it's not shown on that diagram.
[01:12:52] <furrywolf> capt: it worked until power off and back on. same with the second one.
[01:13:54] <CaptHindsight> isolation options and grounds are not connected
[01:14:06] <renesis> yo, anyone knows how to do win7 smash to border half maximize when you have double monitors?
[01:14:10] <furrywolf> argh! cnn has joined the list of idiotic websites that display a position:fixed bar over the top of articles that breaks scrolling.
[01:14:14] <renesis> i want to smash to the middle
[01:14:35] <renesis> right now i have to smash left and drag over
[01:14:42] <PetefromTn_> jeez man Andypugh did some amazing work on that neracar project... Man's got SKEELS...
[01:16:39] <CaptHindsight> radio shack is soon to be no more
[01:17:19] <CaptHindsight> alibaba should but them as retail locations for cheap electronics
[01:17:31] <furrywolf> lol
[01:17:37] <furrywolf> or ebay
[01:18:05] <CaptHindsight> just think if they sold stuff you wanted to buy
[01:18:07] <Rab> CaptHindsight, that's the best continuation plan I've heard so far.
[01:18:23] <CaptHindsight> unlocked phones, media players, tablets and popular parts
[01:19:09] <furrywolf> I've gotten pretty fed up with buying chinese stuff these days.
[01:19:18] <furrywolf> now it has to be really cheap and for something I don't care if it works.
[01:19:29] <CaptHindsight> cables, head phones, chargers, batteries at fair/low prices
[01:19:40] <XXCoder> furry or something you could rebuild?
[01:19:42] postaL is now known as postaL_offline
[01:20:03] <XXCoder> think capt here was one who bought chinese router and rebuilt it to good one
[01:20:14] <furrywolf> cables? half the chinese cables I've bought don't work.
[01:20:14] postaL_offline is now known as postaL
[01:20:27] <furrywolf> I got USB cables with no shield, audio cables that were dead shorts,...
[01:20:44] <zeeshan|2> sorry waas checking grounds
[01:20:54] <furrywolf> batteries, if they even work out of the box, tend to be substandard and low-capacity or quickly failing.
[01:21:06] <zeeshan|2> 0 ohms from motor chassis to earth bar
[01:21:15] <zeeshan|2> 0 ohms from drive case to ground
[01:21:20] <furrywolf> for example, a chinese laptop battery I got lasted about ten cycles, dropping from 7 hours to 30mins...
[01:21:34] <XXCoder> dang
[01:22:08] <furrywolf> bbl, time for work
[01:22:13] <CaptHindsight> yeah thats what Radiobaba could offer, a place with a reputation for low cost and good parts
[01:22:14] <zeeshan|2> work at 8 pm?
[01:22:15] <zeeshan|2> lol
[01:22:27] <furrywolf> 5:30pm
[01:22:28] <furrywolf> bbl
[01:22:34] <CaptHindsight> or AliShack?
[01:22:47] <XXCoder> lol
[01:22:57] <XXCoder> hey CaptHindsight was it you who rebuilt a chinese router cnc
[01:23:10] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: yes
[01:23:13] <witnit_> "I can't believe its not Radioshack"
[01:23:14] <XXCoder> coo
[01:23:18] <XXCoder> *cool
[01:23:39] <CaptHindsight> took if from crap to craptatsic
[01:23:55] <PetefromTn_> heh
[01:23:55] <XXCoder> lol
[01:23:57] <CaptHindsight> craptastic
[01:24:08] <renesis> capthindsight: +2 on ali express retail
[01:24:35] <PetefromTn_> some pro level turd polishing going on there hehe
[01:24:37] <renesis> i would even invest in that shit if i could afford it
[01:25:02] <CaptHindsight> a place to return items for warranty or just returns
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[01:26:58] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: before and after
[01:27:54] <CaptHindsight> most if the fasteners had red oxide coatings and the Y and X had 1mm lash
[01:28:27] <PetefromTn_> 1MM !!!!
[01:28:30] postaL is now known as postaL_offline
[01:28:41] <XXCoder> crazy
[01:28:43] postaL_offline is now known as postaL
[01:28:58] <zeeshan|2> lol 1mm
[01:29:10] <CaptHindsight> yes, no nuts on the ball screw ends and the end play was >1mm
[01:29:57] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1qfOShvdGarY
[01:30:33] <witnit> ;(
[01:30:35] <PetefromTn_> all that aluminum and not a nut in sight tsk tsk tsk....;)
[01:31:04] <witnit> are you insisting aluminum threads stretch out under pressures? :)
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[01:32:10] <Rab> CaptHindsight, hahaha
[01:32:36] <PetefromTn_> well.......10 down.....40 more to go LOL
[01:32:41] <CaptHindsight> the coupler on the motor shaft end of the screws would act like a spring to keep the screw pressed towards the motor
[01:33:00] <CaptHindsight> that was their faith based ball screw ends fixity solution
[01:33:06] <PetefromTn_> no bearing on that side?
[01:33:55] <PetefromTn_> it's like a CNC router......kit....sorta.
[01:34:00] <CaptHindsight> bearings on both side but floating axially
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[01:34:58] <PetefromTn_> nobody needs a Holley Check valve????? hehe
[01:35:15] <CaptHindsight> using Belleville Washers would have helped
[01:35:42] <CaptHindsight> or even lock washers to add pressure
[01:36:06] <PetefromTn_> no angulars then huh.
[01:36:15] <CaptHindsight> they didn't even try
[01:36:37] <PetefromTn_> how much was that thing?
[01:37:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/kl3040-cnc
[01:38:09] <CaptHindsight> was maybe $700 without the controller
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[01:38:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router you really don't want to see any of these up close
[01:39:11] <CaptHindsight> ugly, painted with mops
[01:39:28] <CaptHindsight> over spray everywhere
[01:39:35] <CaptHindsight> rusty fasteners
[01:39:38] <PetefromTn_> typical chinese
[01:39:57] <CaptHindsight> nothing adjusted for 0 lash
[01:40:09] <new2cnc> Hi, can I do a precompile install of linuxcnc if I have a source compile linxcnc(run-in-place) already in my ubuntu system or would be wiser to remove the run-in-place first
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[01:41:17] <CaptHindsight> new2cnc: you can choose between running a sim and real hardware
[01:42:19] <CaptHindsight> new2cnc: you mean installing...
[01:43:17] <CaptHindsight> did you use the package manager to install your version that you compiled?
[01:43:24] <tjtr33> new2cnc, i think the rip doesnt use any of the installed, thats why you have to source the environment to use the rip ( as in 'ignore the installed version ' )
[01:45:21] <XXCoder> http://www.sbnation.com/2014/11/26/7281129/radioshack-eulogy-stories
[01:45:24] <XXCoder> dang
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[01:50:39] <CaptHindsight> just think is RadioBaba carried the top 250 products that sell on alibabab right now
[01:50:44] <CaptHindsight> is/if
[01:51:02] <XXCoder> s/if/of
[01:51:27] <XXCoder> unless you meant what if..
[01:51:37] <CaptHindsight> it would full of tablets phones cables etc
[01:51:59] <XXCoder> yeah all of em is full of unsalable stuff
[01:53:29] <XXCoder> heh that site has secton about cuecat. I own one and love it
[01:53:37] <XXCoder> makes scanning books in much easier
[01:53:38] <CaptHindsight> check out the electronics section at Costco or Sams Club
[01:53:50] <XXCoder> costco is yull of awesome
[01:53:58] <XXCoder> s/yull/full
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[01:54:33] <CaptHindsight> Sprint was talking about buying some of the stores
[01:54:41] <XXCoder> they are
[01:54:47] <XXCoder> over 1,000 of em
[01:55:06] <CaptHindsight> too bad Sprint is so bad
[01:55:11] <XXCoder> radio hack will be 1/3 sprint stuff and they wont sell other service (like verizon) anymore
[01:55:22] <CaptHindsight> they took over Clear and Clearwire
[01:55:23] <XXCoder> depends on where, here sprint is pretty darn good
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[02:41:47] <DGMurdockIII> where do you buy your cnc bdrill bits
[02:41:50] <DGMurdockIII> at
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[02:43:17] <tiwake> MSC normally
[02:43:43] <DGMurdockIII> link
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[02:46:11] <DGMurdockIII> http://www.mscdirect.com/?
[02:47:10] <tiwake> yeah, thats correct
[02:47:26] <tiwake> they might be USA only though... donno
[02:48:20] <DGMurdockIII> im in usa
[02:49:41] <unfy> msc is a good choice
[02:50:54] <witnit_> DGMurdockIII what size, type etc are you looking for exactly?
[02:51:17] <DGMurdockIII> just looking for a good place to buy bits
[02:51:26] <witnit_> what are you drilling?
[02:51:32] <witnit_> dont say holes
[02:51:33] <witnit_> hahahahaha
[02:51:39] <witnit_> materials
[02:51:51] <tiwake> enh
[02:52:05] <tiwake> most of the time you just want a cobalt screw machine drill
[02:52:27] <tiwake> parabolic in certain cases
[02:53:00] <tiwake> most of the time carbide drills chip too easily
[02:54:13] <witnit_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-POUND-MIXED-TOOLING-LOT-CARBIDE-MICRO-100-SGS-DENSCO-ALU-POWER-NACHI-/371247337340?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item567010cf7c
[02:54:21] <witnit_> industrial grade brands
[02:54:27] <witnit_> are best always
[02:54:36] <witnit_> so find what is best for you and go from there
[02:55:10] <witnit_> often you can get good carbide with industrial grade coatings in lots if you know which brands are worth it
[02:55:17] <tiwake> witnit_: nice find
[02:55:21] <DGMurdockIII> no wood metial
[02:55:29] <DGMurdockIII> plastic
[02:55:34] <witnit_> nachi is all searched for
[02:55:45] <tiwake> DGMurdockIII: drilling through wood and plastic?
[02:56:25] <DGMurdockIII> cutting drilling same think
[02:56:29] <witnit_> but if your machine or working holding is not rigid it will not matter the brand or grade carbide will break if improperly used
[02:57:06] <witnit_> work-holding*
[02:57:20] <LeelooMinai> True, always buy premium-grade tape
[02:57:57] <witnit_> a good tap is worth all your time and effort you have invested in the part you are tapping.....
[02:58:30] <tiwake> heh yeah
[02:58:40] <tiwake> using a $50 tap right now actually
[02:58:49] <LeelooMinai> I meant workholding tape:)
[02:59:13] <tiwake> 5/16-24 extra long tap
[02:59:18] <witnit_> I have a tapgrinder for reworking it :)
[03:00:35] <witnit_> tiwake what is your project?
[03:01:27] <tiwake> a startup company is having me make high end bow products
[03:01:53] <tiwake> he brought a couple more drawings over earlier today
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[03:03:15] <tiwake> some sort of counterbalance weight system... I donno... I don't show bow, much less professionally or competitively
[03:03:38] <witnit_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walton-Tools-40090-9-Piece-Tap-Extension-Set-/291359087725?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d65adc6d
[03:03:51] <witnit_> sometimes these work depending on shank
[03:04:08] <tiwake> no, the hole is too small
[03:04:14] <witnit_> I figured
[03:05:05] <tiwake> hehe
[03:05:09] <witnit_> I wonder if there is a company that makes indexable taps, that would have a whole throught them so you can hold them to any shank
[03:05:15] <witnit_> hole*
[03:05:31] <literally_h1tler> yes, they're used in screw machines and are called collapsing taps
[03:06:12] <witnit_> no not quite like that
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[03:07:39] <witnit_> more like......http://www.ebay.com/itm/INDEXABLE-DRILL-1-2-DIA-8XD-COOLANT-THROUGH-KENNAMETAL-2-DRILL-TIPS-NEW-132-00-/251424742887?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item3a8a151de7
[03:07:47] <witnit_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/INDEXABLE-DRILL-1-2-DIA-8XD-COOLANT-THROUGH-KENNAMETAL-2-DRILL-TIPS-NEW-132-00-/251424742887?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item3a8a151de7
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[03:08:15] <witnit_> but a tap instead
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[03:11:37] <tiwake> ponies
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[03:20:12] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1CMSV81_ws
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[03:30:28] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/uXD5hKe.jpg parts are getting done with the vacuum setup!!
[03:30:41] <unfy> pete: !
[03:30:53] <PetefromTn_> yeah man
[03:31:29] <witnit> hey those turned out great :)
[03:31:33] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl-M5S32oYg&feature=youtu.be Sorry for the dark cellphone video..
[03:31:53] <unfy> methods: i do feel a bit sorry for the round it's chewing up :D
[03:32:02] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: nice job
[03:32:04] <unfy> unless that's just dirt
[03:32:19] <_methods> hehe looks like quicksand
[03:32:43] <PetefromTn_> thanks witnit
[03:33:31] <zeeshan|2> glad it worked out
[03:33:34] <zeeshan|2> :)
[03:33:38] <Tom_itx> ok i need to figure out the scale for this pwm
[03:34:36] <PetefromTn_> I still have to be careful when I plunge thru for all the holes....it ALMOST feels like it is gonna go flying but so far it has stayed put.
[03:34:39] <Tom_itx> S281 = 1v ; S950 = 10v
[03:34:47] <Tom_itx> i need S5000 for the top end
[03:34:57] <Tom_itx> and 0 near the bottom
[03:35:20] <Tom_itx> it works fine until i invert the signal but if i don't the speed is reversed from what it should be
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[03:39:22] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6YPJ0rnZPo&feature=youtu.be
[03:40:00] <unfy> Pete: nice, but learn to hold a camera steady :P
[03:40:06] <XXCoder> tripod
[03:40:10] <XXCoder> but yeah very nice
[03:40:13] <unfy> or that :)
[03:40:48] <pcw_home> is it PWM not a stepgen?
[03:41:06] <Tom_itx> i went back to pwmgen ... i wasn't getting anywhere with stepgen
[03:41:28] <Tom_itx> at least with pwmgen i get an output voltage
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[03:42:01] <Tom_itx> from what i can tell the pulse width doesn't vary much for full swing
[03:42:02] <PetefromTn_> sorry man I am not a videographer heh
[03:42:28] <pcw_home> what is pwm scale now
[03:42:51] <Tom_itx> -5000
[03:43:04] <pcw_home> Minus?
[03:43:15] <Tom_itx> i was trying that to see if it would invert the signal
[03:43:34] <pcw_home> that only changes the diretion pin
[03:43:36] <Tom_itx> i had 5000 originally but the S word was backward
[03:43:55] <Tom_itx> so low rpm gave me 10v and high rpm gave me near 0
[03:44:16] <Tom_itx> i tried inverting the IO and that was a fail
[03:44:22] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: try this sequence 0,6,5,7,4,8,3,9,2,0 see if it accuracy stays?
[03:44:27] <XXCoder> er stays accurate
[03:44:51] <pcw_home> inverting the output bit should work, thats weird
[03:45:10] <Tom_itx> it didn't work
[03:45:24] <pcw_home> so its not really PWM
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[03:45:32] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what it is
[03:45:43] <Tom_itx> the output signal is pwm
[03:45:47] <PetefromTn_> I have no idea what you are talking about
[03:45:56] <Tom_itx> and it behaves like pwm but i'm questioning the dac input
[03:46:14] <pcw_home> Didn't someone else give up on that BOB?
[03:46:20] <Tom_itx> connor did
[03:46:23] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: it's just movement pattern, sometimes sequence works but different pattern exposes problem
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[03:46:51] <Tom_itx> PCW, wanna swap 7i47 for a spindle out one?
[03:46:58] <Tom_itx> it's still in the bag :)
[03:47:11] <Tom_itx> i'm using the old one still
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[03:47:34] <pcw_home> well since its sort of working, you might try setting scaling to 25000
[03:47:45] <Tom_itx> hmm
[03:47:46] <PetefromTn_> I guess man... it just shows the positional accuracy and repeatability as well as backlash accuracy it reverses several times dunno what moving to different positions would show that this video does not really.
[03:48:12] <XXCoder> what it baically does is start with short distances then increasing
[03:49:01] <new2cnc> CaptHindsight: Sorry I went out for lunch. nope I didn't use any package manager to install it. I am thinking of doing it now rather than using over the rip version cos I having a few problem with rip version
[03:49:43] <Tom_itx> PCW that's alot better
[03:49:54] <Tom_itx> i can invert the output now and get a decent signal
[03:50:06] <Tom_itx> it's not within the board specs yet but closer
[03:50:44] <Tom_itx> min pulse is 3�s
[03:51:04] <Tom_itx> i'm getting 6 at 4000 rpm
[03:51:25] <Tom_itx> and 1.6 at 1000 rpm
[03:51:41] <Tom_itx> 1.6v at 1000 rpm
[03:51:55] <Tom_itx> 8.27 at 4000
[03:52:16] <Tom_itx> 10v at 5000
[03:52:29] <Tom_itx> 8�s pulse at 10v
[03:52:38] <pcw_home> you can offset the PWM if you like or run the spindle command through lincurve and fix multitude of sins
[03:53:06] <Tom_itx> i considered running the ouput thru scale then out
[03:53:13] <Tom_itx> output*
[03:53:25] <pcw_home> I dont mind swapping a 7I47 (or I may have something in the junk box maybe a proto SPINX1)
[03:53:27] <Tom_itx> and scale it there
[03:53:45] <Tom_itx> i haven't even taken it out of the bag
[03:53:51] <Tom_itx> what io is the pwm on?
[03:54:02] <Tom_itx> i may have to swap stuff around
[03:54:09] <Tom_itx> i have this one on io 20 21
[03:54:32] <Tom_itx> i'll jack with this board a bit longer and see where i get
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[03:54:56] <Tom_itx> i haven't hooked hardware to it yet, just looking at voltage and Logic signals
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[03:55:43] <Tom_itx> i kinda hate to do that but it might be a last resort
[03:55:53] <Tom_itx> at least i know your stuff works :)
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[03:56:19] <Tom_itx> that 25000 scaling helped quite a bit
[03:56:32] <pcw_home> well we guarantee 1% linearity and offset
[03:56:36] <XXCoder> perfect plan http://buttersafe.com/2010/05/27/spring-cleaning/
[03:57:06] <Tom_itx> i can't get below 1000 rpm before the pulses get too narrow for it
[03:57:12] <Tom_itx> and that's not good
[03:57:20] <pcw_home> spunde workable, spindle speed is seldom critical
[03:57:37] <Tom_itx> i can lower the frequency
[03:57:49] <Tom_itx> to get the bottom rpm lower i think
[03:57:56] <Tom_itx> it's at 25khz now
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[03:58:11] <pcw_home> what does it really want?
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[03:58:35] <Tom_itx> they say 25Khz with a min 3usec pulse
[03:58:54] <pcw_home> but they say its PWM
[03:58:58] <pcw_home> ?
[03:59:06] <Tom_itx> they don't say much
[03:59:10] <Tom_itx> yesh pwm
[03:59:14] <Tom_itx> yes*
[03:59:37] <Tom_itx> their hal example uses stepgen though
[03:59:43] <Tom_itx> thru the parport
[03:59:46] <pcw_home> weird
[03:59:51] <Tom_itx> very
[04:00:13] <Tom_itx> it should be able to be scaled
[04:00:24] <Tom_itx> i can get the 0-10v range
[04:00:30] <pcw_home> is it just a opto followed by filter
[04:00:34] <pcw_home> ?
[04:00:39] <Tom_itx> yes
[04:00:54] <Tom_itx> schmitt trigger buffer behind that
[04:00:58] <pcw_home> fast OPTO?
[04:01:10] <Tom_itx> i don't know what they put on it
[04:01:31] <pcw_home> try 5 KHz or so
[04:02:07] <Tom_itx> LTV847 maybe it it...
[04:02:11] <Tom_itx> liteon
[04:02:28] <pcw_home> thats not fast I dont think
[04:02:37] <Tom_itx> i'm not surprised
[04:04:00] <Tom_itx> does the S board take the same bit files?
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[04:04:25] <pcw_home> no it needs the PWM gen on the 7I47S PWM pins
[04:04:33] <Tom_itx> well i can fix that
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[04:04:44] <Tom_itx> i'm using pwmgen on 20 21 right now
[04:05:07] <furrywolf> meh. I must be the only person unhappy that radioshack is gone.
[04:06:42] <zeeshan|2> why furrywolf
[04:06:45] <zeeshan|2> digikey
[04:07:00] <XXCoder> im not happy but not sad either
[04:07:11] <zeeshan|2> to behonest with you
[04:07:15] <zeeshan|2> i was sad when they moved out of canda
[04:07:18] <zeeshan|2> *canada
[04:07:57] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, looks like it may be using IO 17 18 19 for the pwm
[04:08:55] <Tom_itx> i'll have to see if that leaves me enough io
[04:09:02] <zeeshan|2> anyone here do investigative electronics? :-)
[04:09:08] <zeeshan|2> fix my problem!!
[04:09:09] <Tom_itx> heh
[04:09:38] <zeeshan|2> how can you easily find a short
[04:09:50] <zeeshan|2> i know there is one because at the power entry side i get 0 ohms
[04:10:06] <zeeshan|2> i was told a thermal imaging camera
[04:10:12] <zeeshan|2> + constant current supply can help
[04:10:26] <zeeshan|2> but i guess even if i find the short, i dont know what caused it :/
[04:10:38] <mozmck> pcw_home: using the 7i92 files you sent - with modifications, I can now get motion - in one direction only :)
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[04:11:33] <mozmck> why would it do that?
[04:11:46] * LeelooMinai emerges after some work on the table
[04:12:06] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: figure out failure!
[04:12:19] <LeelooMinai> It's almost ready, tomorrow I will attach extrusions and I will have a table... lol
[04:12:30] <skunksleep> direction pin not correct?
[04:12:40] <LeelooMinai> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/16266704098/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/16268492337/
[04:12:41] <Tom_itx> PCW, yours uses the pwmgen for the pulse right?
[04:12:43] <LeelooMinai> Baby steps
[04:13:13] <zeeshan|2> looks nice
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[04:13:30] <Tom_itx> i would lose TX8-11 but i think i could get by that
[04:13:34] <pcw_home> mozmck: signal levels maybe... what is the 7I92 driving?
[04:14:07] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: nice
[04:14:35] <LeelooMinai> I wish I could somhow attach it so it's easier to assemble/disassemble, but could not come up with anything easily done.
[04:15:04] <LeelooMinai> Unless I had a hole in the middle of the stand or something:)
[04:15:12] <pcw_home> if you have 5V referenced OPTO LEDs you normally have to use open drain mode on the step/dir outputs
[04:15:25] <furrywolf> zeeshan: lots of reasons. online ordering is slow, and for small orders, more expensive due to shipping. without radioshack, most people will no longer have any local access to electronics parts, greatly reducing the number of children introduced to them.
[04:15:29] <zeeshan|2> btw guys
[04:15:32] <zeeshan|2> i fried a 3rd drive
[04:15:45] <furrywolf> ... did you connect it to the z axis?
[04:15:49] <Tom_itx> you're not supposed to do that zeeshan|2
[04:16:01] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Children nowadays show online anyways:)
[04:16:15] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Going for a Guiness record? :)
[04:16:33] <LeelooMinai> shop*
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[04:16:37] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: just use noneucludian access method ;)
[04:16:37] <Tom_itx> enough for one day...
[04:16:42] <furrywolf> did it fail during your power plugging tests, or did you plug the motor in?
[04:17:02] <zeeshan|2> it failed the same way
[04:17:14] <furrywolf> again, plugged in to the motor, or not?
[04:17:19] <zeeshan|2> plugged in
[04:17:22] <zeeshan|2> everything plugged in
[04:17:34] <furrywolf> what is your most expensive ohmmeter?
[04:17:43] <furrywolf> specifically, any that do 4-wire ohms?
[04:17:52] <zeeshan|2> nothing like that
[04:18:09] <zeeshan|2> im just plagued to never run this machine
[04:18:27] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: still building or starting to run test it?
[04:18:32] <LeelooMinai> O, I thought it was a joke... You killed 2 of them? :)
[04:18:42] <XXCoder> 3 now
[04:18:45] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder: Close, but not yet - need VFD
[04:18:46] <furrywolf> ok... clip whatever meter you have to the motor, take the brake off, and SLOWLY (i.e. ONE RPM. take a full minute to rotate the shaft one turn) rotate the motor while watching the resistance.
[04:19:08] <furrywolf> if you can't do this due to the axis falling, block the axis and uncouple the motor.
[04:19:27] <zeeshan|2> that is a real pain in the ass to decouple
[04:19:29] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: It did not occur to you do analyze the fault after killing, I don't know, maybe first two? :p
[04:19:30] <mozmck> pcw_home: driving an HCT14
[04:19:45] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: ... what the heck do you think i've been trying to do
[04:19:48] <zeeshan|2> for the last 3 days?
[04:20:00] <zeeshan|2> there were no external faults detected
[04:20:01] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: I don't know... killing stuff it seems:)
[04:20:07] <zeeshan|2> if you can't be useful
[04:20:09] <mozmck> pcw_home: then to gecko drives
[04:20:09] <zeeshan|2> don't comment, thanks
[04:20:16] <zeeshan|2> i'm already upset
[04:20:20] <zeeshan|2> i dont need witty comments
[04:20:30] <pcw_home> step timing marginal?
[04:20:31] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: After the first one I would get really paranoid:)
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[04:20:43] <furrywolf> I'm wondering if you don't have a single shorted pole in the motor, that's been missed during tests...
[04:20:44] <zeeshan|2> ignore works good
[04:20:47] <witnit_> zeeshan if its brush dc you could drive it back and forth with just dc and monitor everything without the risks
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[04:21:12] <XXCoder> single pole in spidle shorted?
[04:21:25] <furrywolf> yes, that'd work too. run the motor off a low voltage DC source with a light bulb in series with it, and observe brightness changes while letting it slowly rotate.
[04:21:28] <mozmck> pcw_home: I'll check that - I have an led panel that shows step and dir activity though, and it only showed steps in one direction
[04:21:28] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: You have few more of those to test?
[04:21:39] <zeeshan|2> what kind of lightbulb
[04:21:49] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: think zee is ignoring you now but thwen his statement was vague
[04:21:56] <zeeshan|2> i have a 125v 1.75W bulb ithink
[04:21:57] <XXCoder> or maybe me lol
[04:21:59] <furrywolf> a car taillight bulb would be good.
[04:22:33] <furrywolf> you want lower voltage and more watts... you need to be able to get enough power through it to make the motor turn. :)
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[04:22:37] <witnit_> furrywolf good for 14v up to lots of amps right
[04:22:53] <LeelooMinai> Sometimes when things explode, it's good to set up some safe testing environment
[04:23:17] <zeeshan|2> so i need to turn the motor slowly
[04:23:27] <zeeshan|2> and have an ohmmeter hooked up and watch for resistance changes
[04:23:35] <furrywolf> witnit: a taillight bulb is about 1A, which, at a very rough guess, is a good current to make his motor turn at a reasonable speed.
[04:23:35] <zeeshan|2> you're basically trying to see if there is an intermittent short
[04:23:39] <furrywolf> correct
[04:23:47] <LeelooMinai> 1.75 bulb is pretty tiny...
[04:23:59] <witnit_> if you can set up a toggle switch and get it to revers the direction of your motor every few rotations it would be nice to automate while you spec eeverything out
[04:24:08] <zeeshan|2> here's a question for you
[04:24:14] <zeeshan|2> since i have to decouple the motor
[04:24:17] <zeeshan|2> using the second idea
[04:24:21] <zeeshan|2> i have a 12v car battery
[04:24:31] <furrywolf> since it didn't melt without the motor plugged in, despite all your best efforts to make it melt, then promptly did so when you plugged the motor in, it's really got to be something with that motor...
[04:24:31] <zeeshan|2> can i not just spin the motor at 12v
[04:24:48] <pcw_home> yep
[04:24:57] <furrywolf> you can spin the motor at 12v, but you need the 12v light bulb too to easily see current changes.
[04:24:59] <mozmck> pcw_home: G251 has a min 1 microsecond pulse width, and the ini is set to 2500 ns
[04:25:00] <zeeshan|2> but the thing is
[04:25:01] <XXCoder> furrywolf: is what LeelooMinai said possible, one pole being shorted?
[04:25:03] <zeeshan|2> it's short circuit protected..
[04:25:16] <furrywolf> xxcoder: I'm the one that said that, and yes, it's possible.
[04:25:17] <zeeshan|2> the drive would go in fault mode
[04:25:22] <zeeshan|2> so i dont understand why all these tests
[04:25:36] <LeelooMinai> They are called sanity checks:)
[04:25:37] <zeeshan|2> (not trying to argue)
[04:25:41] <zeeshan|2> (trying to be logical)
[04:25:48] <mozmck> pcw_home: this is the hm2-pidstepper.hal I added stuff for the charge pump...
[04:25:52] <XXCoder> furrywolf: oh oops misread
[04:25:53] <furrywolf> zeeshan: it could be it doesn't fault correctly on power up, or something... also, manufacturers often make claims that do not fully correspond to the real-world operation of the product.
[04:26:22] <zeeshan|2> fair enough
[04:26:23] <pcw_home> did you invert the step pulses (default at the FPGA pins is active high)
[04:26:31] <zeeshan|2> furry decoupling the motor is a pain
[04:26:35] <zeeshan|2> i think ill let the axis fall slowly.
[04:26:38] <zeeshan|2> with a jack under it
[04:26:48] <zeeshan|2> that way i can control the rate of fall
[04:26:50] <furrywolf> for example, the manual says it's protected in all those ways, then also says the drive will be damaged if you connect a motor below the minimum rated impedance. a motor with too low of impedance SHOULD trip the short-circuit protection... but it doesn't, since they say it'll damage the drive!
[04:26:52] <zeeshan|2> and monitor the terminal
[04:26:55] <witnit_> you dont have to uncouple if you have the amps to move the work around
[04:26:57] <LeelooMinai> power jack? :)
[04:27:18] <mozmck> pcw_home: no, but that should not have affected my blinky LED board.
[04:27:26] <XXCoder> jack in box
[04:27:33] <mozmck> and the motors run fine one direction.
[04:27:34] <furrywolf> a short circuit happens to have a rather low impedance, and the manual says a low impedance will damage it, despite earlier saying it shouldn't....
[04:27:45] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: good point
[04:28:32] <furrywolf> it's got to be something about that motor or its wiring, even though everything seems to test good.
[04:28:45] <furrywolf> if it were just smps startup issues or something, your cord plugging test would have fried it.
[04:29:45] <zeeshan|2> is there any tests i can do for the tachometer
[04:29:47] <zeeshan|2> while im doing this
[04:29:57] <pcw_home> mozmck: weird
[04:30:24] <pcw_home> Ill have to try tommorow
[04:30:35] <furrywolf> I don't think a tachometer issue, other than being shorted to a source of power (such as the motor or brake circuits), could fry the drive.
[04:31:04] <zeeshan|2> i really appreciate the help
[04:31:10] <zeeshan|2> its the only thing that makes me feel better about these blow ups
[04:31:10] <zeeshan|2> lol
[04:31:25] <pcw_home> you could short the motor leads and it should drop slowly and smoothly
[04:31:32] <furrywolf> so far none of my help has resulted in diagnosis of a problem, so don't appreciate it too much. :P
[04:31:36] <mozmck> pcw_home: I'm about to knock it off here too, I'll look at it again tomorrow
[04:31:45] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home, talking to me?
[04:32:10] * LeelooMinai helps by quoting a saying "Three times a charm"
[04:32:31] <furrywolf> pcw: that won't let him measure for any problems, though, and probably would be spinning too fast to visually see them in the speed.
[04:32:50] <pcw_home> it will not spin fast shorted
[04:33:08] <zeeshan|2> to get an idea
[04:33:09] <zeeshan|2> http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/Stacker22/Motorlayout.jpg
[04:33:17] <zeeshan|2> thats what my motor looks like inside?
[04:33:19] <furrywolf> he doesn't have a 'scope, much less one with a current probe. letting it fall and watching it won't tell him anything. :)
[04:33:50] <pcw_home> Not true a shorted or open segment will be noticeable
[04:34:45] <zeeshan|2> http://www.edisontechcenter.org/ElectricMotors/UniversalMotor600.jpg
[04:34:47] <furrywolf> hrmm, that's a good point... the drive could fry on open too, if it were sufficiently poorly designed. they do have a large warning not to put a switch on the motor side of the drive or it fries... could even just be bad brushes if the drive fries that easily.
[04:34:48] <zeeshan|2> what part would be shorting?
[04:34:50] <zeeshan|2> the commutator?
[04:35:03] <XXCoder> furrywolf: sometimes line of question hekpos
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[04:35:19] <furrywolf> the commutator can have metal filings stuck in the bars, or the windings could have overheated and shorted together.
[04:35:21] <pcw_home> Thast kind od why i suggested checking the commutator/brushes
[04:35:31] <pcw_home> thats kind of why
[04:35:31] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: how can i dothat
[04:35:34] <zeeshan|2> without taking it apart
[04:35:42] <furrywolf> I still think watching the resistance is the next test. it's pretty simple.
[04:35:46] <LeelooMinai> By taking the brushes off?
[04:35:47] <zeeshan|2> yea ill do the resistance test
[04:35:49] <zeeshan|2> but i want more than one :)
[04:35:53] <zeeshan|2> while im dirtaaayy
[04:35:56] <zeeshan|2> ill check other things too if i can
[04:36:19] <zeeshan|2> ill do the motor lead short test too
[04:36:22] <zeeshan|2> and let it fall
[04:36:39] <zeeshan|2> when i short the motor winding
[04:36:48] <zeeshan|2> it should act like a magnet inside an aluminum tube?
[04:36:52] <furrywolf> do the resistance test first. letting it fall, or running it off a car battery, could clear the short instead of diagnose it.
[04:36:58] <zeeshan|2> you will have eddy currents forming?
[04:37:00] <pcw_home> mozmck: its my fault
[04:37:15] <mozmck> oh?
[04:37:16] <LeelooMinai> He does not have a DMM or what?
[04:37:17] <zeeshan|2> the running off car battery
[04:37:22] <zeeshan|2> I MUST, put a bulb in series?
[04:37:27] <zeeshan|2> otherwise it'll draw too much current?
[04:37:35] <zeeshan|2> and im watching out for the bulb to go dimmer?
[04:37:43] <zeeshan|2> for a short period -- indicating there is a short ?
[04:37:44] <pcw_home> I think the demo hal file sets up the stepgen in quadrature mode
[04:37:46] <furrywolf> if it's shorted, it'll draw way too much current, yes. but it won't damage a healthy motor.
[04:38:07] <furrywolf> if it flashes dimmer, you have an open winding or bad brushes/commutator, if it flashes brighter, you have a short.
[04:38:10] <zeeshan|2> i gotta figure out how to disable the brake on this thing
[04:38:23] <furrywolf> power it up, turn brake off? heh
[04:38:31] <zeeshan|2> its not that easy
[04:38:35] <mozmck> pcw_home: I wondered about the mode, but had not looked up to see what the differences are yet.
[04:38:39] <zeeshan|2> the brake and motor winding pins
[04:38:41] <zeeshan|2> are on the same connector
[04:38:49] <zeeshan|2> i'd need to power up the machine to release the brake
[04:38:50] <zeeshan|2> nm
[04:38:52] <zeeshan|2> im dumb
[04:38:55] <furrywolf> in series, the more current you draw, the brighter the bulb is. if it dims, it means you're drawing less current. if it gets brighter, it means you're drawing more current....
[04:38:55] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[04:39:04] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yes
[04:39:14] <zeeshan|2> not sure why i was thinking opposite
[04:39:15] <furrywolf> they're on different connectors at the motor drive, unless I very much misunderstand your wiring.
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[04:39:23] <zeeshan|2> ok resistance test, motor power test w/ bulb
[04:39:28] <zeeshan|2> i hope this shwos the problem.
[04:39:46] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: you're correct.
[04:40:03] <zeeshan|2> brb this will take a while |:P
[04:40:08] <furrywolf> I like bulbs. a 'scope would give you much much more accurate results... but a bulb is easy to see major problems with visually and quickly.
[04:40:24] <furrywolf> ok. I can't stay up late again tonight, so if it takes more than 30 mins, I'll be in bed.
[04:40:30] <zeeshan|2> okay
[04:40:31] <furrywolf> I was useless today due to insufficient sleep.
[04:40:48] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: You will be stuck with me helping you then
[04:41:15] <furrywolf> if you want to take the motor apart and test it, I've got a growler you can borrow... but that's extreme, and it's fucking heavy. :)
[04:42:23] <mozmck> pcw_home: step_type is set to 1 which looks like UP/Down mode whatever that is
[04:42:30] * furrywolf checks for a video so people can see how to use a growler, since it's a tool most people haven't used
[04:42:49] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXQ0heuV6VE
[04:42:53] <furrywolf> also, that's a sexy motor.
[04:43:06] <pcw_home> you're making me sleepy...
[04:43:51] <mozmck> heh, I'm going to bed, I'll get back at this in the morning. Thanks.
[04:46:23] <pcw_home> up/down is CW/CCW mode
[04:46:56] <pcw_home> sorry must have come from an example for someone that needed that
[04:47:02] <Connor> Tom_itx: pcw_home: Yea, the C6 just totally sucked.. the C41 worked way better.
[04:47:40] <pcw_home> input signal needed seems a bit dorky
[04:47:47] <PetefromTn_> Ok thats enough I'm shuttin' this baby down for the day LOL...
[04:47:58] <Connor> It's a Pulse Step at 25khz
[04:49:13] <Connor> Tom_itx: http://linuxcnc.org/dapper/emc2/index.php/russian/forum/10-advanced-configuration/11151-adding-a-c6-speed-control-board
[04:49:19] <Connor> You can try that maybe...
[04:49:44] <Connor> stepgen must be in velocity mode...
[04:51:04] <pcw_home> sounds like its a charge pump system rather than PWM
[04:51:48] <pcw_home> sleeeepppyyyyyy....................
[04:51:54] <pcw_home> nite all
[04:52:10] <furrywolf> pcw: if where you are is anywhere like here, you can probably find some meth within 5 minutes.
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[04:52:52] <PetefromTn_> Gn8 Pete
[04:53:15] <pcw_home> used to be across the street till the police/hazmat people took its all away
[04:53:24] <pcw_home> bbl
[04:53:36] <furrywolf> it'll keep you up all night... all week if you want! :P
[04:53:41] <furrywolf> cyas
[04:54:26] <furrywolf> meh, batts at 23.4V... might need to run the genny a bit tomorrow. this storm just keeps going on.
[04:54:41] <Connor> furrywolf: ??
[04:54:47] <furrywolf> the forecast for now through tomorrow is 4-8" of rain...
[04:55:48] <XXCoder> flood warning around here
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[04:56:07] <XXCoder> good thing while I am very close to inlet sea, I live at pretty high area
[04:56:09] <Connor> furrywolf: What batteries ?
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[04:56:20] <furrywolf> flood watch near here, hasn't been upgraded to a warning yet.
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[04:56:31] <furrywolf> not for my area, a bit away
[04:56:47] <furrywolf> connor: the assortment of crappy failing leadacid ones that make my solar system work.
[04:57:00] <Connor> Oh. Didn't know you had solar.
[04:57:01] <XXCoder> oops watch not warning
[04:57:12] <XXCoder> gonna love washingrton foreverain
[04:57:31] <furrywolf> is it different than california foreverrain?
[04:57:48] <XXCoder> you mean forevernorain?
[04:57:50] <furrywolf> they call it the pacific northwet for a reason. :)
[04:58:01] <furrywolf> ... some places here get over 200" a year.
[04:58:06] <XXCoder> I hear california is under super massive drought
[04:58:17] <furrywolf> you seem to be confusing california with SOUTHERN california.
[04:58:20] <XXCoder> no rain at all Jan, first in over hundred years
[04:58:21] <furrywolf> they don't get much rain.
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[04:59:31] <furrywolf> eh? my weather station shows rain in jan...
[05:01:05] <furrywolf> the northern part of california is the same climate as oregon and washington coast... rain most of the year, often plentiful.
[05:01:13] <XXCoder> ahh san francisco
[05:01:25] <XXCoder> first jan with no rain there in 165 years
[05:01:39] <furrywolf> we are _not_ in a drought here, and weren't at any point recently. our reservoir was full to the brim, and has been overflowing already this winter.
[05:01:49] <XXCoder> nice
[05:01:51] <renesis> ?
[05:01:54] <furrywolf> yeah, that's six hours south of here, and a very different climate.
[05:01:59] <renesis> way to be part of the team furry
[05:02:09] <XXCoder> yeah I used to live at south calfornia
[05:02:22] <XXCoder> it was in middle of minor drought, it never rained entire year I lived therwe
[05:02:22] <renesis> but yeah, northwest cali is pretty green, and rest of the state doesnt steal from them as much
[05:02:43] <XXCoder> and then day before I got plane ride to washington, it finally rained. massive
[05:03:01] <renesis> i guess reservoir in butte county is crazy low
[05:03:08] <furrywolf> here we have giant redwoods, that thrive on all the moisture, both rain and fog.
[05:03:14] <renesis> cachuma near santa barbara is almost dry
[05:03:30] <renesis> theres a reservoir east of monterey that way low last time i drove by
[05:03:42] <XXCoder> renesis: http://www.buzzfeed.com/alexnaidus/california-drought-images#.bcdjRNwKw
[05:03:48] <renesis> yeah where furry lives is a lot more like the pacific northwest
[05:03:56] <XXCoder> man been a long while since I last saw redwoods
[05:04:01] <furrywolf> pacific northwet, please. :P
[05:04:16] <renesis> yeah oroville is the butte county one i mentioned
[05:05:00] <renesis> furrywolf: youre being inappropriate!
[05:05:17] <furrywolf> ?
[05:05:19] <renesis> cachuma has been low as long as i can remember
[05:05:28] <renesis> furrywolf: im being inappropriate
[05:05:37] <furrywolf> ruth lake is the one here, and it's currently overflowing.
[05:05:49] <renesis> but lately, there are huge sections that are dry lake beds, just the lowest parts still have water
[05:05:55] <renesis> water from that res is hard as fuck
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[05:06:21] <renesis> didnt get the stains off my dishes until i moved up here (im near the oroville reservoir, prob where my water comes from, dunno really)
[05:06:42] <furrywolf> last summer where people were complaining there was a water emergency, our reservoir was full, and had three years of water stored at current usage rates, with no conservation, even if there was no rain at all those three years...
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[05:07:08] <renesis> is your county doing rationing like everyone else?
[05:07:25] <XXCoder> night
[05:07:29] <renesis> night
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[05:07:31] <XXCoder> dream of plenty of water lol
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[05:07:48] <furrywolf> the state kept telling us to save water. we didn't.
[05:07:57] <renesis> yeah how does that work?
[05:08:06] <renesis> are they trying to fine people?
[05:08:23] <furrywolf> all they did was publish the state-required things, like not overwatering lawns. no enforcement.
[05:08:40] <renesis> yeah they only enforce in some districts in LA
[05:08:53] <renesis> theyre paying people to tear up grass
[05:09:00] <renesis> which i think is long overdue
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[05:09:12] <furrywolf> the biggest water problem here is the rest of the state stealing it.
[05:09:18] <renesis> i think rock and gravel gardens with wildflowers and succelents are much more appropriate
[05:09:26] <renesis> yeah but you guys get paid, no?
[05:09:34] <furrywolf> no
[05:09:40] <renesis> wtf
[05:09:55] <renesis> its just considered a state owned resource?
[05:10:30] <renesis> you guys dont do heavy ag, i dont think you should be penalized because of it
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[05:11:14] <renesis> furrywolf: do you have problems with oil company waste?
[05:11:46] <furrywolf> ... oil companies?
[05:11:52] <renesis> i think thats mostly east of you area, you guys might end up the only source of clean water in the north
[05:12:02] <furrywolf> there are no oil companies around here.
[05:12:11] <renesis> yeah theres an EPA dispute because of poor contract documentation
[05:12:32] <renesis> EPA and state dont agree on where its okay for oil company to pump waste water into the ground
[05:13:11] <renesis> state and EPA have diff copies of the same doc where state was given control of regulating oil company waste water
[05:13:30] <renesis> EPA is pissed, oil companies say its the safest way to get rid of the waste
[05:13:46] <renesis> and ground water pollutants are rising in those areas
[05:13:55] <renesis> i think its mostly around the central valley
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[05:15:15] <renesis> furrywolf: im pretty sure you have rigs off the coast
[05:15:37] <furrywolf> you're pretty sure of a lot of things.
[05:15:39] <renesis> usually that stuff is piped to some distribution hub on the coast, but its not necessarily refined there
[05:15:59] <renesis> ya because i dont have a photographic memories, if you care i can find the article
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[05:18:05] <renesis> http://rt.com/usa/194620-california-aquifers-fracking-contamination/
[05:18:07] <furrywolf> SF may not have had rain last month, but the log for the local airport says 2.07", which is about what my weather station says.
[05:18:30] <renesis> were supposed to get like 5" this weekend
[05:18:38] <furrywolf> we're getting 3-9".
[05:18:45] <renesis> hardcore
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[05:19:05] <furrywolf> yes, that article is nowhere near here.
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[05:19:45] <zeeshan|2> yea.
[05:19:51] <zeeshan|2> nothing spectacular found
[05:20:08] <zeeshan|2> seems to run fine
[05:20:20] <zeeshan|2> so i got fedup and decided to plug in one of the older drives back into the power
[05:20:21] <renesis> trying to find the one that mentions the disputed regions in the contracts
[05:20:27] <zeeshan|2> and suprisngly, no fuse blew
[05:20:34] <zeeshan|2> nor did anything else explode.
[05:20:40] <zeeshan|2> or smoke
[05:20:41] <renesis> everything that was going to die may have blown open
[05:20:51] <zeeshan|2> ive only tried this w/ one board
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[05:21:18] <zeeshan|2> renesis: but im meaasuring 0 ohms.
[05:21:22] <zeeshan|2> @ the power entry
[05:21:26] <zeeshan|2> that indicates a short circuit
[05:21:35] <zeeshan|2> unless im intrepreting that wrong
[05:21:37] <furrywolf> resistance was nice and constant at all angles?
[05:21:42] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: no
[05:21:44] <zeeshan|2> it changes
[05:21:51] <furrywolf> oh?
[05:21:52] <zeeshan|2> depending on how quickly iturn it
[05:22:00] <furrywolf> measure while it's stopped. :)
[05:22:08] <zeeshan|2> while it's stopped its the same
[05:22:11] <zeeshan|2> +/- 0.5 ohm
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[05:22:19] <furrywolf> ok
[05:22:26] <zeeshan|2> the bulb test also showed nothing fancy
[05:22:29] <furrywolf> so... what about that motor blows drives? lol
[05:22:38] <zeeshan|2> i dont know
[05:22:39] <zeeshan|2> its plagued
[05:22:39] <zeeshan|2> haha
[05:22:40] <furrywolf> bulb was a constant brightness the whole time, no bright flickers?
[05:22:45] <zeeshan|2> yea
[05:22:56] <zeeshan|2> i really think i either need a scope
[05:22:58] <zeeshan|2> :P
[05:23:09] <zeeshan|2> im more interested in frying these drives more
[05:23:13] <furrywolf> or you need to make the drive manufacturer fix their drives. heh.
[05:23:24] <zeeshan|2> out of warranty
[05:23:25] <zeeshan|2> :P
[05:23:42] <zeeshan|2> what i dont get is why when i plug this bad drive in
[05:23:44] <zeeshan|2> there is no fire
[05:23:45] <zeeshan|2> or smoke
[05:23:57] <furrywolf> because parts have opened
[05:24:04] <zeeshan|2> but i measure 0 ohms!
[05:24:07] <zeeshan|2> at power entry
[05:24:23] <furrywolf> maybe it has a hidden internal fuse, maybe the input rectifier blew, who knows.
[05:24:32] <zeeshan|2> input rectifier didnt blow
[05:24:34] <furrywolf> still measures 0 ohms?
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[05:24:35] <renesis> zeeshan|2: how long did you measure zero ohms?
[05:24:35] <zeeshan|2> i measured the output voltage
[05:24:41] <zeeshan|2> like 10 sec?
[05:24:47] <renesis> no change?
[05:24:56] <zeeshan|2> ill need to do it again, i wasnt paying attention
[05:25:00] <zeeshan|2> i just probed it quickly
[05:25:13] <renesis> might just be discharged caps
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[05:25:40] <furrywolf> bbl, time for bed. I'll try to think of more tests that'll rule out problems. eventually you'll eliminate so many possible problems that whatever remains must be the problem. :P
[05:25:50] <renesis> leave the meter on it and if ohms rise at a steady rate, its just caps
[05:25:55] <furrywolf> renesis: most multimeters test at too low of a voltage to get through the input bridge
[05:26:45] <renesis> 1.4V isnt huge and it could be schottky
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[05:27:13] <furrywolf> it's not going to be schottky on a mains input, and most meters are <0.5V, intentionally so they do not make semis conduct.
[05:27:19] <furrywolf> bbl
[05:28:51] <zeeshan|2> haha furrywolf
[05:28:53] <zeeshan|2> thanks man
[05:29:03] <zeeshan|2> i left it on for 30 seconds
[05:29:09] <zeeshan|2> reads 0
[05:29:33] <renesis> then why are you not flipping breakers or fuses
[05:29:54] <zeeshan|2> i dont know :-)
[05:31:27] <zeeshan|2> im gonna try plugging the other drive in
[05:32:00] * LeelooMinai waits for smoke
[05:32:02] <renesis> are you sure the meter doesnt say OL
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[06:28:33] <RyanS> these 3d edge finders are $$$ surely a standard edge finder it's easy enough to deduct the tip radius??
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[06:40:02] <renesis> ryans: thats how ive always done it?
[06:40:11] <renesis> and most everyone i know
[06:42:34] <renesis> ryans: you have to watch for using the diameter instead, or forgetting to add the radius
[06:43:30] <renesis> it seems obvious but if youre moving fast its easy to forget, besides that the normal cylindrical ones seem very repeatable and easy to use
[06:43:46] <RyanS> i mean http://www.ymtltd.co.uk/1065-tschorn-tester-probe.html vs http://www.rotagriponline.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=9664&category_id=768&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29
[06:44:58] <renesis> shrug, both of those have tip radius to acct for?
[06:45:03] <renesis> i dont think i understand
[06:45:38] <renesis> you mean something with a dial versus something with just a yes/no indication?
[06:48:03] <RyanS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttOprazgnNI
[06:48:50] <RyanS> @ 1:57
[06:49:53] <renesis> yeah thats pretty sexy
[06:50:53] <renesis> i dont think a lot of places use those
[06:51:01] <renesis> versus standard electronic and mechanical ones
[06:51:02] <RyanS> why , if you only have to deduct the radius from the traditional edge finder
[06:51:18] <renesis> because its got dials!
[06:51:33] <renesis> could use it do test differences easier
[06:51:39] <renesis> it just seems convenient
[06:51:54] <renesis> because you can do that with a normal edge finder if you pay attention
[06:52:06] <renesis> or get creative with setting origins while probing
[06:52:13] <RyanS> so :) and das ict German
[06:52:32] <renesis> germans make neat things
[06:52:56] <LeelooMinai> A bit overengineered sometimes:)
[06:53:10] <RyanS> nien
[06:53:53] <renesis> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0od-cp_9dg&t=1m35s
[06:54:04] <LeelooMinai> Neat and all until you need to fix them - like tanks in wwii
[06:54:05] <renesis> prob most shops still doing it like this ^
[06:54:50] <RyanS> This one is pretty good because it can do x, y, z http://www.tschorn-gmbh.de/index.php?i=42&lg=1
[06:54:57] <renesis> the other ones look way easier to use
[06:55:43] <renesis> http://www.mqs.co.uk/tshorn-001031200-edge-finder-optical-3d-shank-o12mm-voltage-3v-length-111mm-tracer-o10mm.html
[06:56:03] <renesis> thats cheaper that i would have guessed, wonder if all this stuff gone down since i was interested
[06:56:22] <RyanS> but for cnc, touch probe is best because it can be controlled via software?
[06:56:42] <LeelooMinai> Cheaper...
[06:56:47] <LeelooMinai> That's cheaper:) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Singapore-Hongkong-Post-Free-Shipping-Precision-Electronic-Edge-Finder-With-LED-And-Beep-CNC-Milling/2038015554.html
[06:57:03] <renesis> yeah but thats probably shit
[06:57:33] <LeelooMinai> Not everything from China is "shit". Sometimes you get good value for the money.
[06:57:48] <renesis> sure and sometimes you get fucked
[06:58:14] <renesis> for what people pay the CM for work, theyre almost asking to get fucked
[06:58:39] <RyanS> how about a knockoff 3d tester?
[06:59:14] <renesis> you can try it, itll probably work, doubt it would be as accurate or reliable as a german thing
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[06:59:23] <renesis> i dont totally trust made in the USA anymore, either
[06:59:56] <renesis> weve sold off too much of our capability, too much skilled labor has retired, and the corners that need to be cut to compete with china gotta be huge
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[07:01:31] <renesis> small companies with low overhead can compete, but companies like that can change in a flash, just takes a person or two to move on
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[07:03:30] <renesis> ryans: honestly if youre aiming for like .002" and not .0001", any of those options will work for you
[07:04:22] <RyanS> this is pathetic http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M694# $560 in the UK
[07:04:41] <renesis> lots of shit imported tools are rugged as fuck, lots of sexy advanced domestic and euro shit is fragile
[07:05:49] <renesis> yeah but if it works to spec, youre using it to make money, then having a local supplier can be a huge benefit
[07:06:04] <LeelooMinai> Hmm all those edge finders seem to have 20mm shank... I could not even put it into ER11 collet...
[07:06:18] <renesis> try and get a hong kong or chinese manufacturer on the phone, driving to your place, replacing stuff that may not even be defective just to make you feel whole
[07:07:12] <renesis> leeloominai: what do you use?
[07:07:35] <renesis> i have an ER16 and that thing can be tough to shop for, 3/8" max
[07:07:37] <LeelooMinai> Nothing yet - just thinking how I will find edges then:)
[07:07:58] <RyanS> yeah business doesn't care about +/- $200
[07:07:58] <renesis> i bet you can get a mechanical one, how big a shank can you hold?
[07:08:18] <LeelooMinai> ER11 is maximum 7mm I think - pretty tiny
[07:09:19] <renesis> wow enco doesnt have 1/4" shank
[07:09:31] <renesis> 3/8" is the smallest
[07:09:44] <RyanS> How is this going to be at all accurate? http://www.vinland.com/touch-probe.html
[07:10:06] <LeelooMinai> I wonder if there are some "adapters" that could convert ER11 to something bigger
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[07:13:04] <renesis> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1961&category=1261091193
[07:13:09] <renesis> there you go
[07:14:10] <LeelooMinai> They exist then
[07:14:23] <renesis> yeah but not very much
[07:15:04] <renesis> weird we live in a time when difficult to find means you had to search like 5 websites and it took 10 minutes
[07:15:19] <Crom_> I'm looking making a knockoff of the www.vinland.com/touch-probe.html
[07:18:27] <Crom_> using PVC pipe for the body and a piece of delrin cutting board for the top, bottom, and probe holder, with the shaft I'll use a piece of 1/8" drill blank and weld a blob on the end then use my lathe to shape it.
[07:18:32] <renesis> thats looks cool
[07:19:06] <Crom_> I'm thinking it could be made at a under $25 price point Chinese price
[07:20:26] <renesis> would be sweet if you could figure out how to rigidly hold the assembly together to make the point with it together
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[07:20:51] <renesis> like, against the balls when you grind the tip so its totally concentric
[07:21:08] <renesis> i guess if you just used really, really low force
[07:21:56] <archivist> you lose any accuracy by using spastic for the housing
[07:22:14] <Crom_> 3ea 3mm screws around the outside between the sense legs. The shaft would be held in plave by friction and the spring pushing up and the delrin probe holder would be wide at the top with the spring upside down from the way he had it.
[07:22:49] <renesis> archivist: prob hold a few mils even with the pvc
[07:22:54] <renesis> if you dont crash it
[07:22:58] <renesis> or leave it out in the sun
[07:23:02] <renesis> or let it get too cold
[07:23:17] <Crom_> assemble it without the probe hole and drill it in the lathe so the hole could be concentric to the shaft at the top
[07:23:21] <archivist> or let the humidity change
[07:23:36] <renesis> or get random cutting fluids and collants on it
[07:23:50] <renesis> i would trust delrin, tho
[07:23:53] <zeeshan|2> i figured out why there was no sparks
[07:23:57] <zeeshan|2> i blew up the power supplies too for the drives
[07:24:00] <zeeshan|2> :P
[07:24:09] <zeeshan|2> found some nice toasty voltage regulators
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[07:24:26] <zeeshan|2> im starting to think the person i bought the drives from
[07:24:31] <renesis> yeah see that makes sense
[07:24:37] <zeeshan|2> sold me some faulty ones
[07:24:51] <Crom_> only looking for .2mm accuracy
[07:25:12] <renesis> might work for awhile
[07:25:22] <renesis> you cant cut aluminum?
[07:25:53] <renesis> almost can cut delrin, and youre going to do a lot better with delrin than with pcv tubes
[07:26:15] <renesis> or even just get a polycarbonate tube
[07:26:32] <renesis> thatll look like hot sex
[07:27:02] <renesis> definitely motivation to get some nice solder joints on the bearings
[07:27:20] <Crom_> My jaws on my lathe down't go small enough for 1/8" 5/16 is the smallest I can go, though I could use a hunk of al and a grub screw to hold the 1/8 shaft and clock it in.
[07:28:07] <renesis> why can you start with like 1" aluminum bar stock or something
[07:28:10] <zeeshan|2> do you have a small drill chuck?
[07:28:12] <Crom_> poly rod is like $100 for a 3"x12" long hunk
[07:28:21] <zeeshan|2> you can hold that in your 3 jaw
[07:28:25] <renesis> and bore a hole and then cut a shank on the side closer to the chuck
[07:28:39] <Crom_> hmmm I have an old makita chuck...
[07:28:51] <Crom_> I only have a 4 jaw
[07:28:52] <renesis> zeeshan|2: haha thats so ghetto
[07:28:59] <zeeshan|2> renesis: lol yea
[07:29:02] <zeeshan|2> works in a pinch though
[07:29:06] <renesis> i couldnt really do it on my mill because the chuck ate so much z
[07:29:14] <zeeshan|2> is your 4 jaw scroll
[07:29:16] <zeeshan|2> or regular 4 jaw
[07:29:18] <renesis> yeah its pretty neat for manual mills
[07:29:19] <Crom_> reg
[07:29:28] <zeeshan|2> okay you might think this is ghetto
[07:29:31] <zeeshan|2> but i've done it like this too
[07:29:35] <renesis> why cant you hold it in your 4 jaw?
[07:29:37] <Crom_> 1945 Sheldon 10"x44" leather drive
[07:29:39] <zeeshan|2> you wrap a shit load of aluminum foil
[07:29:43] <renesis> ive done it, and its ghetto
[07:29:44] <zeeshan|2> around your work piece
[07:29:47] <zeeshan|2> and then hold it
[07:29:47] <zeeshan|2> lol
[07:29:51] <renesis> nothing necessarily wrong with ghetto
[07:30:23] <renesis> are you talking about cutting the tip? or the body
[07:30:30] <Crom_> I'll take a bit of al rob, drill a 1/8" hole and put in a grub screw to hold it
[07:30:39] <Crom_> s/rob/rod
[07:30:58] <renesis> why cant you just take down a 1" rod to make your part
[07:31:14] <renesis> kind of wasteful but its not like its a huge part
[07:31:26] <Crom_> body is a no brainer, top and bottom can be prepped on the lathe and finished on the 3040
[07:32:07] <renesis> youre going to do threaded rod for the probe like in the page?
[07:32:26] <Crom_> I want the ball bearings out at 20mm from center
[07:32:30] <zeeshan|2> https://www.schuetz-licht.de/static/_processed_/csm_tensile_specimens_hot_deforming_6190c94d1a.png
[07:32:34] <zeeshan|2> i gotta cut a crap load of these
[07:32:35] <zeeshan|2> using a mill
[07:32:40] <zeeshan|2> im wondering what the easiest way is
[07:32:45] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of stacking a shit load of them
[07:32:49] <zeeshan|2> clamping it from the long edges
[07:32:57] <zeeshan|2> machining the sides, then moving the clamps and finishing em off
[07:33:20] <zeeshan|2> stacking a shitload of sheets that is
[07:33:40] <Crom_> what's the dimensions?
[07:33:50] <renesis> and what do you have to machine
[07:33:57] <zeeshan|2> a sheet
[07:34:00] <renesis> profiles?
[07:34:02] <zeeshan|2> that i've sheard
[07:34:06] <zeeshan|2> sheared to a rectangle
[07:34:07] <renesis> oh you need to make those, not machine those
[07:34:30] <renesis> i thought you had those and needed to finish them
[07:34:43] <zeeshan|2> nahh
[07:34:46] <zeeshan|2> gotta make the shape
[07:34:57] <renesis> yeah how this
[07:34:57] <zeeshan|2> theres gotta be an easier way to what im doing
[07:35:00] <renesis> thick
[07:35:09] <zeeshan|2> .040
[07:35:15] <renesis> how many sheets
[07:35:18] <Crom_> hmmm after shearing you'll have to deburr all the edges
[07:35:21] <zeeshan|2> like need to make 100
[07:35:32] <renesis> how bad is scrapping a couple sheets?
[07:35:38] <zeeshan|2> not bad at all
[07:35:42] <zeeshan|2> tons of material available
[07:35:43] <Crom_> time to rig a plasma cutter?
[07:35:46] <renesis> i mean you could try stacking
[07:35:55] <zeeshan|2> Crom_: my only 2 options are waterjet and milling
[07:35:57] <renesis> i would just maching the profiles in a single cut maybe?
[07:36:04] <zeeshan|2> can't use anything that makes too much eat
[07:36:05] <zeeshan|2> *heat
[07:36:07] <renesis> like, arrange them so you dont have to profile each
[07:36:27] <Crom_> for those I'd prefer water jet...
[07:36:36] <zeeshan|2> me too
[07:36:41] <zeeshan|2> but it might end up being too much money
[07:36:42] <renesis> yeah totally if you got it but thats cheating
[07:36:45] <renesis> he said mill
[07:37:20] <zeeshan|2> imagine 2 clamps holding down like 40 sheets
[07:37:22] <Crom_> hmmm cnc mill right?
[07:37:35] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of doing the curved sections first
[07:37:36] <renesis> stacking sheets doesnt save you time unless you want to go full depth
[07:37:40] <zeeshan|2> then moving clamps to the milled corners
[07:37:42] <zeeshan|2> and finishing em off
[07:37:49] <zeeshan|2> renesis: yea i wanna go full depth
[07:37:54] <zeeshan|2> it saves me time in setup
[07:37:54] <renesis> in which case maybe you should like bolt the sheets together or something
[07:38:07] <renesis> yeah then you need to clamp the shit out of it
[07:38:26] <renesis> do you have a lot of edge?
[07:38:29] <witnit> what are the dimensions x/y?
[07:38:33] <renesis> or this is like, 1 part per sheet
[07:38:55] <renesis> are you cutting arrays or one of each sheet
[07:39:04] <renesis> with not a lot of edge to hold
[07:39:47] <zeeshan|2> 4" long
[07:39:54] <renesis> oh shit tiny
[07:39:57] <zeeshan|2> .25 " wide at the neck
[07:40:05] <Crom_> I'd make a jig... to stack them 5 high, clamp the ends, rough both sides, finish sides, then move that stack to new jig to hold the centers and finish the ends and the 1/4" at either end.
[07:40:07] <zeeshan|2> .375" wide at the pads
[07:40:18] <renesis> yeah what crom said
[07:40:28] <renesis> you need to locate the middle sheets
[07:40:33] <renesis> i wouldnt trust clamping top and bottom
[07:40:56] <renesis> if this is something you want to do by like, tomorrow, i would just start the coffee now
[07:41:05] <Crom_> make the jig clamp one side to wards the other at both ends
[07:41:09] <zeeshan|2> you dont trust clamping
[07:41:11] <zeeshan|2> check this shit out
[07:41:11] <zeeshan|2> lol
[07:41:12] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOtG5DruMQA
[07:41:15] <zeeshan|2> thats how i made discs
[07:41:20] <zeeshan|2> just with friction
[07:41:37] <renesis> yeah but thats huge, you have pussy little .04 sheets
[07:41:44] <zeeshan|2> thats not huge
[07:41:49] <zeeshan|2> they were also .040 sheets
[07:41:50] <zeeshan|2> ss
[07:42:00] <zeeshan|2> started as squares
[07:42:08] <Crom_> ntycnc on youtube just had a good video on slotting
[07:42:10] <renesis> i like croms idea
[07:42:16] <Crom_> nyccnc
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[07:43:43] <Crom_> which ss? hopefully not something gallie like 316l
[07:44:18] <zeeshan|2> 304
[07:44:44] <witnit> zeeshan http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jewelry-Thurston-HSS-2-x-0-023-x-1-2-Slitting-Slotting-Saw-Blades-/281521181535?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418bf8535f
[07:44:55] <Crom_> haven't messed with that one
[07:45:25] <witnit> slow but functional, see his store for something that suits you better
[07:45:36] <renesis> zeeshan|2: clamp one side of the stack, clamp from side to side on that same side
[07:45:50] <renesis> machine the unclamped side, swap
[07:46:22] <archivist> slitting saw is wrong for the profile to cut
[07:46:23] <renesis> least something to keep the middle shit from rotation
[07:46:26] <witnit> personally i would just put them between two pieces of hardwood and clamp
[07:46:56] <renesis> thats gonna be a tall stack to cut
[07:47:00] <zeeshan|2> man making tensile test samples out of round bar is so much easier
[07:47:09] <zeeshan|2> turn and polish on lathe
[07:47:10] <zeeshan|2> done
[07:47:14] <zeeshan|2> none of this non sense
[07:47:26] <archivist> make metal clamp to hold 10/20 and mill the side in batches
[07:47:37] <renesis> how big is your stock?
[07:47:38] <witnit> :)
[07:47:45] <zeeshan|2> .24" oversize
[07:47:48] <zeeshan|2> .25
[07:48:15] <renesis> so yeah one per sheet
[07:48:17] <renesis> sucks
[07:49:18] <witnit> well, then turn out the profile on a lathe, cut the bar down the middle, place in your sheet metal part and then hold in chuck, and start turning
[07:49:41] <renesis> haha wtf
[07:49:52] <renesis> thats creative yo
[07:49:53] <witnit> perfect debur too
[07:50:06] <witnit> <3 screw machine setup guy
[07:50:18] <witnit> gotta do things funny ways
[07:50:24] <renesis> i guess so
[07:50:28] <Crom_> If I had soft jaws, I'm make a step on the jaw locate the bottom and a stop at one side... and tall enough to mill out the contour of the side, so drop in a piece mill the entire end and profile, flip and repeat with a thin .25 parallel under it.
[07:51:37] <Crom_> s/entire end/entire side/
[07:52:17] <Crom_> keeping the same end at the stop
[07:52:52] <Crom_> or have 2 vise with softjaws in each
[07:55:02] <Crom_> My grandad would have make a set of shearing hard jaws and do it all in the vise
[07:55:33] <Crom_> gotta love a guy with a bridgeport in the living room
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[07:57:54] <Crom_> I just ordered 5 tb6560 drivers boards and a 4 axis breakout from ebay... less that $45
[07:58:42] <witnit> ^ save that seller
[07:58:48] <Crom_> 1 driver board is going to the local maker space http://creatorspace.us for thier 3040
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[07:59:22] <witnit> you are donating?
[08:00:50] <Crom_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251728061990 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281541495759
[08:01:08] <Crom_> less that $7 for the driver board
[08:01:41] <witnit> wow, some very affordable teaching tools
[08:02:13] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/2fDUQmX.png
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[08:02:18] <zeeshan|2> this is what i was thinking about btw
[08:02:21] <zeeshan|2> mill comes from sides
[08:02:25] <zeeshan|2> does side profile
[08:02:33] <zeeshan|2> then i move clamps to finish off the areas where the clamps are currently now
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[08:03:51] <Crom_> yep, I was thinking a jig to one side to like up against, or 2 90 block -- 1 at each end.
[08:03:59] <Crom_> s/like/line
[08:05:41] <Crom_> heck clamp a 1-2-3 block at each end.. .125" in
[08:05:47] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[08:05:49] <zeeshan|2> that'd work too
[08:06:36] <Crom_> 10 high you'd be around 0.40 to 0.45 tall
[08:08:23] <Crom_> big enough rougher could have 1.000" cutting hight, stack them 20 tall.. You'd have to put a block at the end the mill was cutting towards to keep them from moving as well...
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[08:12:49] <Deejay> moin
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[08:19:33] <witnit> mojn!
[08:20:02] <Deejay> mojn witnit :)
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[08:39:43] <Crom_> sheesh
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[08:42:42] <Crom_> hmm
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[08:51:58] <Crom_> hmmm thinking about which printer I will take apart next for stepper motors...
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[09:03:14] <RyanS> What's the point of wavy parallels?
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[09:03:43] <Jymmm> the hold dip better
[09:03:46] <literally_h1tler> harder to knock over
[09:04:17] <literally_h1tler> and store easier than 3/4 and 1" thick parallels
[09:04:40] <Crom_> that's the biggy...
[09:06:13] <RyanS> I don't necessarily need metric ones do i? im in oz so metric
[09:06:30] <literally_h1tler> you don't even need them in SAE/english
[09:06:44] <literally_h1tler> all parallels do is jack the work up in a vise
[09:06:54] <RyanS> They can be completely arbitrary?
[09:06:56] <literally_h1tler> as long as you've got a few different sizes
[09:06:59] <literally_h1tler> that's all that matters
[09:06:59] <RyanS> hmm
[09:08:07] <Crom_> there is uses for certain sizes... for spacing up work after roughing for finish passes running the same program as the roughing pass, etc...
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[09:08:47] <RyanS> eh im not going cnc....yet
[09:09:10] <Crom_> not nessarely for cnc
[09:09:11] <literally_h1tler> even there just jack the work offset down .010 and call it a day
[09:09:38] <renesis> if you cant think of a reason why you need exact height parallels, you dont need them
[09:10:16] <Crom_> true...
[09:10:17] <renesis> i think its because most of the time you want a set and you need to like, call them something
[09:10:36] <renesis> i think the ones i use are like 1/8" spaced
[09:10:41] <literally_h1tler> tbh we just ground a bunch of mild steel
[09:10:56] <RyanS> just dont jack the work off
[09:11:01] <Crom_> surface grinders or soo nice!
[09:11:24] <literally_h1tler> so there were a bunch of matched pairs of big ass parallels
[09:11:51] <RyanS> mill steel instead of grind?
[09:11:53] <renesis> and then
[09:12:15] <renesis> ryans: ground mild steel
[09:12:16] <literally_h1tler> just fuckin' grab a pair that looked good and call it a day?
[09:12:22] <literally_h1tler> that's what I do
[09:12:30] <literally_h1tler> also, soft jaws
[09:12:37] <literally_h1tler> way, way more parallel than parallels
[09:12:46] <renesis> rly?
[09:12:53] <literally_h1tler> yes
[09:13:08] <RyanS> plastic parallels haha
[09:13:18] <renesis> for plastic mills
[09:13:27] <renesis> i bet those exist in 20 years
[09:13:27] <literally_h1tler> given the choice between parallels and soft jaws, i take soft jaws every time
[09:13:30] <Crom_> soft jaws are the bomb!
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[09:13:32] <renesis> composite body mills
[09:13:37] <literally_h1tler> little bit of an undercut on the side faces
[09:13:47] <literally_h1tler> can cut a hard stop into them
[09:13:50] <RyanS> Just carve em out of cheese
[09:14:05] <renesis> gotta be a hard cheese like parmesan
[09:14:16] <renesis> cheddar wont cut it
[09:14:18] <literally_h1tler> plus you can gang vises together and know they're as parallel/flat as the machine is
[09:14:18] <RyanS> but not brie; too soft
[09:14:34] <renesis> brie is what you use to grease your ways
[09:14:38] <literally_h1tler> I cut shit 18" - 24" long to .0002" in flatness
[09:14:59] <RyanS> That's pretty flat shit
[09:15:10] <renesis> ya
[09:15:11] <literally_h1tler> indeed
[09:15:17] <RyanS> Do you eat lots of fibre?
[09:16:33] <Crom_> well I spent all my fun money, now I have to wait a couple months before I can start looking for a scroll 3 jaw chuck for my Sheldon 10"
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[09:17:06] <Crom_> at least a Grizzly G0602 backplate will fit on my lathe without to much work
[09:18:17] <RyanS> I have discovered the solution to manufacture cheese parallels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2uyWS8A8ng
[09:20:52] <RyanS> nononono https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pPwohkqluU
[09:21:33] <RyanS> Very precise ^
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[09:23:06] <Crom_> syringe extruder.. very kool
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[09:24:53] <Crom_> now to make a extruder that will take icing and print a cake... Would need a tool changer and a 4th and 6th axis, 6th wouldn't hurt either
[09:25:07] <Crom_> 4th and 5th
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[09:26:24] <RyanS> cake cutting machine! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do6VhxqCWEQ
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[09:36:35] <anarchos2> I've got an old slab of granite just a little bigger than the base of my mini mill, do you think mounting the mill to the granite would make any difference, vibration wise?
[09:38:45] <RyanS> crom your request > 76 axis icing machine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47EmIP5ETI4
[09:38:45] <renesis> i did the opposite and dont seem to have issues
[09:39:28] <renesis> anarchos2: so my reasoning is that if the mill is allowed to move with any impulsive forces, the column and z assembly are less likely to flex
[09:40:08] <renesis> i have my mini mill feet mounted to rubber cork sandwich mounting pads
[09:41:11] <renesis> its bolted through a table with 1" rubber/cork damper above and below the table between the nuts and washers and the mill feet
[09:41:25] <anarchos2> i was thinking something simular
[09:41:33] <renesis> so basically, if you grab the table or column and shake it, the whole machine shakes
[09:41:46] <renesis> it doesnt flex the column or jam the table into the gibs
[09:42:01] <anarchos2> but with granite in the middle...machine->granite->rubber pad->table->some sort of rubber washer->nut
[09:42:12] <renesis> itsa an 80 lbs machine, its rigid as fuck for an 80 lb machine, but its still just a little guy
[09:42:29] <RyanS> then cheese
[09:42:36] <renesis> yeah i think mass couldnt hurt
[09:42:44] <renesis> eheheh parmesan dampers
[09:43:05] <renesis> tho maybe something like an asiago, get a little more deflection
[09:43:14] <RyanS> and a sponge cake
[09:43:31] <renesis> you put sponge cake at the end of the screws
[09:43:45] <RyanS> no!
[09:43:52] <Crom_> too much hand work still
[09:43:54] <renesis> itd diffuse so it has no one resonant frequency and will damp even across the common vibration spectrum of a mini mill
[09:43:55] <RyanS> bad
[09:44:04] <renesis> tru.
[09:44:28] <Crom_> if the column is hollow fill it with concrete
[09:44:53] <Crom_> but coat the sides with truck bed paint first
[09:46:43] <RyanS> How are you going to deal with the sinosoidal depleneration ?
[09:46:56] <Crom_> then turn it over fill any holes with mylar tape, add some holes thru any webbing, stick brazing rod through the holes and fill with fiber reeinforced concrete
[09:47:06] <renesis> anarchos2: by never have issues, i mean that with very little exception, my steppers lock up the same across all the axis, at a max speed and not at random lower speeds in certain spots in each axis
[09:47:40] <renesis> the small exceptions being while messing with the gib and lead screw nuts, everything totally loose
[09:48:22] <anarchos2> what kind of machine do you have?
[09:48:39] <renesis> like you can grab the ends of the table and shake and hear the play as much as you can feel it, and even then it only binds at the ends, i dont think ive ever had resonant issues
[09:48:46] <renesis> taig 2019cr
[09:49:11] <renesis> itll do 60IPM without fucking up, i rapid at like 45IPM during normal use
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[09:49:27] <anarchos2> that's pretty good
[09:49:29] <renesis> and the only time it locks is when im being an idiot with my depth of cut
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[09:49:50] <anarchos2> i can only do like 45 IPM before my motors start loosing steps and doing weird stuff
[09:49:51] <renesis> i back off DOC or feed and its usually fine after
[09:49:52] <anarchos2> pulsing
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[09:50:12] <renesis> yeah mine dont do stuff like they just get stuck
[09:50:21] <Crom_> hehe good thing I adjusted the spindle so it hit the table when it crash in the down Z
[09:50:27] <renesis> so maybe damping mounts would help
[09:50:42] <Crom_> wouldn't hit
[09:50:44] <renesis> you can maybe try adding some nuts to the end of the screw to see if that changes behavior
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[09:51:16] <RyanS> I was reading the BF30 CNC kit uses 8 Nm/1100oz-in steppers , but someone on CNC zone, said that way overkill by a factor of about 6
[09:51:18] <renesis> table on my mill has a 1/4" dimple from the first day i was setting up the mill
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[09:52:02] <renesis> wowowow @ 1000oz/in minimill
[09:52:07] <RyanS> I've seen knee mills with 1200oz
[09:52:21] <renesis> yeah but those things are a lot biger
[09:52:44] <renesis> i dont even remember what mine are anymore
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[09:53:11] <RyanS> 8nm http://www.optimum-machines.com/products/cnc-pc-controls-complete-and-adapter-kit/complete-and-add-on-bf-30/index.html
[09:53:43] <Crom_> at the creatorspace we are going to hack on the 3040 so the main gantry leans back so we can get the spindle to within 1cm of the end of the table.
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[09:54:03] <renesis> the z says 270 ozin
[09:54:39] <renesis> i remember the x and y being close to 2000, i cant read the labels to look up the datasheets the way theyre mounted
[09:55:12] <RyanS> huh? 11.2nm is 1586oz
[09:55:31] <Crom_> and raise it to with the spindle all the way down in it's clamp, with the longest bit, it'll still miss the table.
[09:55:33] <RyanS> oh your mill
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[09:56:15] <Crom_> sheeshz... I'm playing with a 56oz motor here... It's from a printer I torn apart.. and the 3040 uses 127oz motors
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[09:58:02] <renesis> http://www.cncitalia.it/upload_ele/PacSciDS.pdf
[09:58:15] <renesis> according to page 39 mine are way custom
[10:00:46] <renesis> mines not listed in the specs tables, its just tagged S for special
[10:01:14] <renesis> so somewhere between 100 and 200 ozin
[10:01:30] <anarchos2> hmmm
[10:01:30] <RyanS> ok knee mill kits use http://www.flashcutcnc.com/motor/nema-42-2830-oz-stepper-motor so 1200 for bf30 is probably close
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[10:03:33] <anarchos2> i have 480ozin motors IIRC
[10:03:36] <anarchos2> on an X2 :P
[10:03:39] <anarchos2> a little over kill
[10:04:03] <Crom_> makes it easier to bust end mills though
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[10:05:31] <RyanS> So with CNC less RPM = lower feed = smaller steppers ?
[10:05:58] <renesis> in cnc you always want highest feed
[10:06:18] <renesis> you need torque to cut but you want speed to rapid quickly and reduce cycle time
[10:06:58] <Crom_> this last week has seen the money fly out the door... $2350 on a 5800W DP-7100 diesel generator around $700 on steampunk/sewing/Corset supplies for 4 events we are going to boothy at...
[10:07:14] <RyanS> yeah but for diy you don't have 20,000 rpm
[10:07:23] <renesis> i have 10k
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[10:07:39] <Crom_> I have 8K 200w dc spindle
[10:07:42] <renesis> and im pretty sure you can get 20k dremel tools
[10:07:51] <Crom_> ER11
[10:07:55] <renesis> ER16
[10:08:09] <renesis> so 3/8" max
[10:08:34] <RyanS> yeah, I am getting a BF30, 3000rpm , so that determines how fast you can feed?
[10:08:40] <RyanS> max
[10:09:01] <renesis> maybe, in a lot of cases you wont want to spin that fast
[10:09:18] <renesis> so you figure out what speed the metal wants to be cut at
[10:09:19] <Crom_> My Sheldon is a ASME 4.5 tape in the head stock and I want to get a ER40 collet adapter for it. And get a straight shank ER20 collet holder to go in the ER40 for the smaller size collects
[10:09:26] <renesis> that and your tool ciameter determin speed
[10:09:38] <renesis> then you determine the chipload that makes your tool and work happy
[10:09:42] <renesis> that determines feed
[10:09:44] <anarchos2> hmmm
[10:09:52] <Crom_> ER11 7mm or a tad over 1/4"
[10:10:04] <renesis> then you figure out how deep you can cut before tool or machine rigidity cant hang
[10:10:10] <renesis> that determines your depth of cut
[10:10:22] <renesis> add wetness for greater pleasure
[10:10:45] <Crom_> and cooling... or Chip clearance
[10:10:47] <renesis> if possible avoid machining one area for extended periods to reduce the temperature of the work as its cut
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[10:12:34] <renesis> if you run max spindle all the time, youre going to make a ton of uneccessary cuts, and the work might turn out okay but your tool life will be shit
[10:12:41] <renesis> and cleanup will prob be worse because dust
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[10:15:06] <renesis> like, your goal is to minimize heat and the number of cuts, so you start with figuring out how fast to spin based on accepted cutting speeds for the material youre cutting
[10:15:47] <RyanS> I am aware of that. But what I saying is if you cut stainless at say 800rpm , 16mm cutter, you can't feed as fast as 3000RPM, 6mm cutter, aluminium?
[10:16:07] <renesis> maybe
[10:16:29] <renesis> like when you start using smaller tools you want to fly
[10:16:58] <renesis> you dont get much speed at little diameters, so you want the higher spindle speeds
[10:17:10] <renesis> thats why a lot of smaller diy mills will have 10k and 20k spindles
[10:17:14] <RyanS> So if the machine spindle can't spin faster than 3000RPM . I don't need steppers capable of sustaining really high feeds
[10:17:27] <renesis> you dont need it, but youre going to want it
[10:17:32] <anarchos2> hmm, think it's possible my tilting column X2 is trammed to within .0005"-.001" by eye?? i must be measuring wrong, lol
[10:17:34] <renesis> also, its a headroom thing
[10:17:44] <renesis> my shit will fuck up once in a blue moon at 45 ipm
[10:17:52] <renesis> it doesnt at 30 ipm
[10:18:05] <renesis> and i maintain that by making sure itll run consistently at 60 ipm
[10:18:28] <anarchos2> i measured the table about 8 inches apart using my dial indicator, and it seems dead nuts...
[10:18:34] <renesis> anarchos2: ive gotten really, really close by eye
[10:19:00] <renesis> like, tested after months and shit didnt need tweaking for regular work
[10:19:49] <RyanS> ok but is 1500oz total overkill for http://www.optimum-machines.com/products/cnc-pc-controls-complete-and-adapter-kit/complete-and-add-on-bf-30/index.html . It seems to be
[10:20:00] <renesis> it wasnt dead on buy yeah with test dial indicator was like ~.001 over at least 6", maybe more
[10:20:06] <renesis> i only have 12" of x
[10:21:38] <Crom_> tilt is easy to set.. it's nodding that's a pain of X2's
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[10:23:08] <Crom_> I've seen several methods of adding bracing to the column to stop tilt over at CNCzone
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[10:25:13] <anarchos2> i must be doing something wrong, because if i sweet my table, it's 0.004" off over 7 inches, give or take...
[10:25:32] <anarchos2> but if i just swing the indicator around without moving the table, it's dead on..
[10:25:58] <anarchos2> http://imgur.com/bZ6xk5x
[10:26:28] <RyanS> dead nuts..
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[10:29:22] <Crom_> measure from the bench to your table and check it over it's travel
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[10:39:32] <renesis> crom_: yeah on my taig you gotta shim the headstock assembly to adjust that
[10:40:13] <renesis> traming around Y axis is easy because its made to tilt like 60 degrees
[10:41:04] <renesis> anarchos2: table is maybe worn uneven
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[10:41:41] <renesis> i try to do my work on diff parts of the table but im not to good about that
[10:42:34] <Crom_> anyone near Temecula CA? I need a real mill to finish a lower
[10:45:31] <anarchos2> renesis, i'm thinking that
[10:45:32] <anarchos2> hmm
[10:46:30] <anarchos2> because i have it set dead nuts with the indicator while swinging it around in the spindle, but about 0.008" off left to right....so basically i have trammed to compensate for the table, i suppose?
[10:46:39] <anarchos2> only thing i can think of why one would be off and the other not.
[10:47:05] <renesis> one axis?
[10:47:09] <anarchos2> yeah
[10:47:10] <anarchos2> X
[10:47:26] <RyanS> anti-backlash nut on a ballscrew.... odd
[10:47:27] <renesis> i think mostly thats how people orient parts
[10:47:48] <renesis> X is the long dimension of your work, so theres going to be more movement
[10:48:00] <renesis> thats certainly not going to be tru on every machine tho
[10:48:33] <anarchos2> yeah
[10:48:49] <Crom_> heh Yep long way is Y on a 3040 X is across the gantry
[10:49:04] <renesis> X is traditionally the long axis
[10:49:22] <renesis> but that doesnt means thats how your parts are oriented
[10:49:30] <anarchos2> it seems to be spot on on the Y axis
[10:49:39] <renesis> like, you could have arrays of mostly Y parts, and most of the movements would be on the Y
[10:49:51] <renesis> long movements on X would just be from one part to another
[10:50:00] <renesis> but in general i think it makes sense the X would wear more
[10:50:13] <anarchos2> so what do i do? should i just "ignore it" and tram my vise to compensate for it?
[10:50:31] <renesis> or split the diff
[10:50:42] <renesis> or try and find the area thats its best and work there
[10:50:47] <anarchos2> like get a .002" shim (or whatever it works out to be with the width of my vice only being about 5")
[10:50:56] <renesis> or try and find the area that its worse and see if you can even it out
[10:50:59] <renesis> iunno
[10:51:48] <anarchos2> renesis, i kinda mapped it a bit with sharpie, and it seems to be fairly consistent...maybe my saddle is tilted or something
[10:52:30] <anarchos2> it seems to work out to 1.5-2 inches of X travel equals .001" tilt
[10:52:36] <renesis> does it have brass gibs or similar?
[10:52:44] <renesis> that are easy to get at?
[10:53:05] <anarchos2> steel ones IIRC
[10:53:41] <renesis> yeah dunno how much you can really mess with those
[10:53:58] <renesis> maybe do like 1/8 turn and back and see if anything changes
[10:54:16] <Crom_> heh tram the column to the corrected angle then flycut the table level
[10:54:23] <renesis> then you know they have an effect on it, but i think theyre usually made so that the table is resting on the ground bed
[10:54:45] <renesis> crom_: cheese spoilboards
[10:55:28] <renesis> get some romano with reverse tslots, slide it in, cut it flat
[10:55:31] <renesis> man im hungry
[10:55:35] <Crom_> get a surface plate and turn the bed upside down and check the dovetail and gibs
[10:55:56] <renesis> that will tell you for sure
[10:56:14] <Crom_> s/get/borrow/steal/
[10:56:25] <Crom_> s/get/borrow\/steal/
[10:56:28] <anarchos2> i wonder how much it'd cost to get my saddle, table and vise ground.
[10:56:53] <renesis> find a starving machinist
[10:56:57] <Crom_> it's case iron... it'll machine
[10:57:09] <Crom_> then start scrapping
[10:57:21] <renesis> my shits aluminum, heh
[10:57:35] <RyanS> bloody Americans; a 'gunsmithing lathe' :p
[10:58:02] <Crom_> rightO Ducky!
[10:59:10] <renesis> like, Z is aluminum on steel i think, Y is aluminum on steel, X is aluminum on anodized aluminum
[10:59:27] <renesis> brass gibs all three
[11:01:01] <renesis> leadscrew nuts are brass with a slice so you can tighten them onto the oddly fine pitch screws
[11:01:01] <Crom_> my lathe is cast iron to cast iron to cast iron to cast iron and cast iron gibs, though the headstock has babit bearings
[11:01:15] <renesis> like, one screw to clamp and two screw to lock with opposite force
[11:01:35] <renesis> its not the lowest maintenance but it cant not work
[11:02:16] <renesis> crom_: rawr
[11:02:52] <renesis> mine is built onto 3" cast iron square tubes
[11:03:02] <renesis> with little angle iron feet
[11:03:14] <renesis> i think thats its secret
[11:03:25] <Crom_> and the bearings really need repouring... until then 120 weight gear oil...
[11:03:48] <renesis> sticky icky icky
[11:04:37] <renesis> but yeah i love how i can raise the Z, move Y forward, loosen the column nut and just lay the column down
[11:04:48] <renesis> shit breaks down flat in seconds
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[11:05:09] <Crom_> My lathe is over 400 lbs
[11:05:10] <renesis> throw it in the hatchback, cnc on the road in 2 minutes
[11:05:18] <Crom_> it stays where it's at
[11:05:37] <renesis> the advantage of an 80 lb machine
[11:06:59] <RyanS> Somewhat likes creating work for themselves https://ctmprojectsblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/clamp-kit-in-solidworks.jpg
[11:07:31] <renesis> that would be a neat school project
[11:07:40] <renesis> i wouldnt be surprised if mcmaster hosted that
[11:08:01] <renesis> that have sw models of pretty close to all their hardware
[11:09:19] <renesis> like, after gaving to model screw threads and heads all day, making the varrying case and step blocks is prob lots of fun
[11:09:32] <Crom_> heh I hate drawing bolts and hooks and bunches of other things... I snag alot off the sketch up library
[11:10:16] <renesis> mcmaster models and theres some dassault site with a ton of models
[11:13:37] <Crom_> I fsckn hate adobe indesign which my boss make me use
[11:14:28] <Crom_> I much rather use corel draw, gimp, emachineshop, and sketchup
[11:15:39] <RyanS> eww corel draw
[11:16:56] <Crom_> it does a decent job of taking a jpg/png/bmp/pdf bitimage and turing it into a vector technical drawing
[11:17:05] <Crom_> turning
[11:17:18] <Crom_> time for a new keyboard...
[11:18:34] <Crom_> nicfit time again
[11:22:23] <anarchos2> hmmm
[11:22:33] <anarchos2> i think i might try to go full metric from now on
[11:23:56] <RyanS> imperial sucks
[11:25:29] <Crom_> well the 3024 is running 20320 steps per inch... 2 start 4mm pitch ball screws
[11:25:42] <Crom_> 1/16 micro step
[11:26:00] <Crom_> I lifted M2 instead of M1 on the TB6560's
[11:27:01] <Crom_> so i get to take the board out again solder m2 back down and lift m1 for 1/2 step
[11:27:08] <anarchos2> can i have linuxcnc use mm but still have my .ini in imperial?
[11:27:26] <anarchos2> my ballscrews are imperial...
[11:28:10] <Crom_> you just have to figure steps per mm
[11:28:25] <Crom_> steps per inch / 25.4
[11:36:26] <Crom_> for me it's 800 steps per mm right now 0.000049" per step or .00125mm step
[11:36:27] <RyanS> idiots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL0uOLhWeq8
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[11:37:52] <Crom_> that's what forklifts are for
[11:38:45] <Crom_> or 3ea 4x4's rigged for a lift
[11:39:46] <Crom_> boss has forklift and 16' 4x6's and a bunch of winchs and chain hoists and 2 bobcats, we can lift anything!
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[11:45:42] <RyanS> haha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vCxNLoGdRA
[11:46:48] <Crom_> I need to bring home my drill press and radial arm saw... but before I can do that.. I need to get rid of stuff in the garage... HP4500 COlor laser, hp8500 color laser, 3 or 4 racks, toilet, ...
[11:46:50] <Crom_> oops
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[11:50:25] <Crom_> bike shipping box
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[11:51:39] <anonimasu> hmm..
[11:51:52] <anonimasu> anyone knows how to assign a parameter from a python userspace component
[11:52:08] <anonimasu> (I cant get the bldc.x.drive-offset to go in the right place
[11:56:23] <anonimasu> err encoder-offset
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[11:56:23] <anonimasu> toastyde1th: hey
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[11:56:23] <anonimasu> toastyde1th: got any clue how to set a parameter from a a python userspace component
[11:56:23] <anonimasu> (link it in hal)
[11:56:23] <micges> anonimasu: os.system("halcmd setp param_name value")
[11:56:23] <anonimasu> no other way?
[11:56:23] <micges> nothing better comes to my mind
[11:56:23] <micges> maybe python hal module has some usable functions for that
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[12:01:16] <Crom_> eeesh 4am off to bed
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[12:05:32] <jthornton> well crap I have file sharing on the wheezy computer in the shop but not this one and I can't remember what I did
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[12:07:10] <RyanS> sexy http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Toolroom-Lathe-Smart-Brown-Model-1024-/131419062960?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1e992fc2b0
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[12:09:10] <witnit_> buy it ryans
[12:09:20] <witnit_> jthornton what kind of file sharing?
[12:09:32] <RyanS> That's the starting $
[12:10:33] <witnit_> anyone want to test this for me? it reads your bitfile and exports to openoffice to make a label (must have a mesa card attached)
[12:10:36] <witnit_> http://what.duckdns.org/readhdmiout.zip
[12:12:29] <witnit_> err libreoffice
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[12:15:01] <Crom_> it can't do 11.5 TPI or standard 1/2, 3/4, 1" npt
[12:15:50] <witnit_> "<Crom_> eeesh 4am off to bed" j/s
[12:16:59] <Crom_> well I just found sketchup 8 installer! it'll install on XP
[12:17:08] <witnit_> =D
[12:17:17] <witnit_> you vbox?
[12:17:30] <jthornton> just using the file managers
[12:17:59] <Crom_> wife and stepdaughter only abuse winbloz
[12:18:00] <witnit_> jthornton sudo apt-get install gigolo
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[12:21:46] <jthornton> witnit, interesting
[12:25:06] <Crom_> got the linuxboxen on a step stool next to the tv computer, which this boxen formally was. Setting up the new to me computer and setting this up as well... Only to find out ubuntu14.04 won't run EMC2 at the moment
[12:29:12] <witnit_> jthornton this one is nice as well, I use them hand in hand sudo apt-get install remmina
[12:36:35] <witnit_> jthornton, do a cp /home/jthornton/.remmina/* /some other computer your use alot /home/otherusername/.remmina/*
[12:36:41] <witnit_> that should save you some clicking
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[12:39:40] <witnit_> are you running a sim or rt?
[12:39:51] <witnit_> crom_ ^^
[12:39:59] <jthornton> debian wheezy
[12:40:03] <jthornton> rt
[12:40:27] <anonimasu> haha
[12:40:29] <anonimasu> the plasma s
[12:40:30] <anonimasu> works.
[12:40:48] <anonimasu> 21m/min :D
[12:41:01] <witnit_> you got a plasma running linuxcnc?
[12:41:39] <jthornton> yes
[12:41:40] <anonimasu> yep
[12:42:37] <anonimasu> let me show off.
[12:42:37] <anonimasu> :D
[12:43:16] <witnit_> please do, which control do you have for it?
[12:43:25] <anonimasu> emc
[12:43:29] <anonimasu> oh the unit?
[12:43:32] <witnit_> yeh
[12:43:37] <anonimasu> hypertherm hd 3070
[12:43:45] <jthornton> control?
[12:43:49] <anonimasu> for height=
[12:43:51] <witnit_> which cards are driving your amps
[12:43:56] <anonimasu> 8i20
[12:43:57] <anonimasu> 's
[12:44:05] <jthornton> 7i76
[12:44:18] <anonimasu> and some servos with abs encoders..
[12:45:00] <_methods> yeah pics for sure
[12:45:06] <_methods> plasma is my next build
[12:45:29] <anonimasu> hehe
[12:45:32] <anonimasu> no pics, video
[12:45:38] <witnit_> yisssssss
[12:45:44] <witnit_> post it post it
[12:47:18] <witnit_> jthornton, were you saying interesting to gigolo or that zip file i posted?
[12:48:05] <jthornton> gigolo but it doens't solve my problem
[12:48:41] <anonimasu> one second
[12:48:45] <jthornton> I can't open a directory on this computer from my windows computer, but I can open one on the wheezy computer in the shop from my windows computer
[12:49:01] <anonimasu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu_f1PKa0WE
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[12:51:45] <witnit_> what is the computer you are on now?
[12:53:00] -!- acdha has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
[12:53:45] <anonimasu> a 3ghz
[12:53:50] <anonimasu> p4 celeron
[12:54:07] <anonimasu> with a gig of ram
[12:54:19] <anonimasu> and a mesa 5i20(I think it was)
[12:54:21] <anonimasu> bbl..
[12:54:26] <anonimasu> gotta actually work
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[12:57:41] <witnit_> jthornton you could compare these files listed here between your two linux shares
[12:57:43] <witnit_> http://askubuntu.com/questions/537097/diagnosing-samba
[12:58:09] <_methods> ah nice messer retrofit
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[13:11:03] <_methods> anonimasu: did you reuse the existing servos and amps?
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[14:37:38] <mozmck> pcw_home, PCW: changing the step type to 0 gives me motion in both directions.
[14:38:59] <pcw_home> Sorry about that, changed for somebody and forgot it was set for a weird mode
[14:40:05] <mozmck> no problem, thanks for the pointer.
[14:40:36] <mozmck> Now another question, how do I invert the direction output (and step I guess).
[14:41:29] <mozmck> The docs say to use dmesg to find which pin is the output for a stepgen, but dmesg has nothing in it about the 7i92 that I can see.
[14:41:55] <pcw_home> theres a token that needs to be set on the GPIO pin that the step/dir outputs are on
[14:41:57] <pcw_home> invert_output Ithink
[14:42:42] <pcw_home> its in the hostmot2 manual in the GPIO section
[14:43:34] <mozmck> I see that. I guess I just use the pinout I already know and halshow tells me the hal pin names...
[14:45:47] <mozmck> so I guess I would use the HAL pin *.gpio.0xx.out ?
[14:46:37] <mozmck> I guess the pin number is the I/O number in the mesaflash --readhmid output?
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[14:47:51] <pcw_home> no you set the blah.blah.blah.gpio.xxx.invert_output parameter true
[14:48:42] <mozmck> ah, a parameter - that's why it's not showing in the hm_7i92 pins in halshow
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[14:49:13] <pcw_home> the hal pin for invert and opendrain arguably should have been exposed as a stepgen (or whatever module) parameter
[14:49:44] <mozmck> I was going to suggest that :)
[14:49:47] <pcw_home> but its about 8 years to late to change unless its an option
[14:49:50] <JT-Shop> how do you run a python from M100?
[14:50:16] <JT-Shop> do they all start with #!/bin/bash
[14:50:45] <mozmck> #!/bin/python I think?
[14:50:50] <pcw_home> probably with a path to python
[14:51:13] <pcw_home> use which python to find the path
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[14:51:24] <JT-Shop> I have this #! /usr/bin/env python
[14:51:42] <JT-Shop> it runs from the command line with ./M110
[14:52:11] <furrywolf> today is another good day to not go outside. too bad I have to go to work. bleh.
[14:52:14] <pcw_home> I get
[14:52:16] <pcw_home> /usr/bin/python
[14:52:24] <pcw_home> on ubuntu 14.04
[14:52:43] <mozmck> same here, and I have #!/usr/bin/python in at least one python file I looked at.
[14:53:52] <JT-Shop> let me try that
[14:54:39] * furrywolf would hope python isn't in /bin, as that would suggest it's needed to boot, which is just eww.
[14:55:34] <furrywolf> or, at least, needed for basic system functionality.
[14:57:25] <JT-Shop> here are the two files I'm trying to run #! /usr/bin/python
[14:57:25] <JT-Shop> fo = open('status.html', 'w')
[14:57:25] <JT-Shop> info = '''
[14:57:25] <JT-Shop> <HTML>
[14:57:25] <JT-Shop> <HEAD>
[14:57:26] <JT-Shop> <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="60"> <!-- Refresh every 1 minute -->
[14:57:28] <JT-Shop> <TITLE>Change Part</TITLE>
[14:57:32] <JT-Shop> </HEAD>
[14:57:34] <JT-Shop> <BODY>
[14:57:36] <JT-Shop> <p>Change Part!</p>
[14:57:38] <JT-Shop> </BODY>
[14:57:40] <JT-Shop> </HTML>
[14:57:41] <furrywolf> pastebin!
[14:57:42] <JT-Shop> '''
[14:57:44] <JT-Shop> fo.write(info)
[14:57:46] <JT-Shop> fo.close
[14:57:48] <JT-Shop> sorry
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[14:57:50] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/Rp5sdk4S
[14:58:04] <JT-Shop> yea, forgot to Ctrl C after selecting the url
[15:03:38] <JT-Shop> now my stupid windows says access to file denied
[15:04:09] <mozmck> dump windows
[15:04:44] <JT-Shop> can't, SW won't run on linux
[15:04:58] <furrywolf> hrmm, you'd think it would be WINEable.
[15:05:08] <JT-Shop> lol
[15:05:31] <furrywolf> the only program I have that really won't work in wine is flashcut, because it seems to want direct serial port twiddling or something.
[15:05:32] <mozmck> I keep a copy of XP on a VirtualBox VM that I can fire up when I need to - which is almost only ever for work.
[15:05:52] <mozmck> So I even run windows on linux
[15:05:53] <JT-Shop> if you don't have a quad core fire breathing monster with a huge video card you will sit forever
[15:05:57] <pcw_home> I hate that with windows (and its broken print queue that unfixable when bollixed up except by a reboot)
[15:06:12] <mozmck> I have an 8 core w 20 gigs of ram :)
[15:06:28] <JT-Shop> that's what I need lol
[15:06:31] <furrywolf> I have a 2ghz core 2 duo! I finally upgraded from my old 1.3ghz celeron.
[15:06:46] <JT-Shop> so anyone have the time to try the two M100 files?
[15:07:05] <pcw_home> furrywolf: e8500s are about $15.00 on Ebay
[15:07:11] <mozmck> I build my own, and use AMD, so my total cost was about $500
[15:07:41] <JT-Shop> yea, I build mine too
[15:08:18] -!- swingley has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[15:08:22] <furrywolf> pcw: I need a laptop.
[15:18:10] <furrywolf> yay, fun weather. high wind warning, flood watch, wind advisory, gale warning, hazardous seas warning, urban flood advisory,... and they're saying they'll need to issue more warnings after they have a better grasp on the forecast.
[15:18:54] * furrywolf gets to go and work in it! yay!
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[15:24:13] <furrywolf> nothing more fun than being outside when it's raining sideways, right?
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[15:24:30] * JT-Shop wonders if a quit() is needed
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[15:26:16] <JT-Shop> nope
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[15:36:00] <_methods> JT-Shop: you built a plasma table right?
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[15:42:16] <JT-Shop> aye
[15:42:54] <furrywolf> bbl
[15:45:34] <_methods> you have a build log of your plasma?
[15:46:10] <JT-Shop> just this http://gnipsel.com/shop/machine-shop.xhtml and a few videos on putube
[15:46:18] <anonimasu> _methods: no
[15:46:56] <_methods> yeah that's the perfect size
[15:47:00] <anonimasu> anyone got a idea how to set the coordinate system from theabs encoders
[15:47:03] <_methods> thtw' what i want to build for the house
[15:47:12] <anonimasu> _methods: no :)
[15:47:22] <_methods> anonimasu: k
[15:47:30] <anonimasu> im just stuck on that part, where to get coordinates(World) from
[15:47:45] <_methods> we have a komatsu at work that will probably be needing a retrofit soon
[15:48:02] <_methods> the elex in it are getting pretty sketchy
[15:48:39] <JT-Shop> _methods, do you need anything else before I take off?
[15:49:01] <_methods> nah i was just wondering about your build
[15:49:08] <_methods> i'll harass ya later hehe
[15:49:21] <JT-Shop> lol
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[16:03:47] <witnit_> pcw_home after you mentioned it, I made this earlier, maybe you can modify it to suit your needs. http://what.duckdns.org/readhdmiout.zip
[16:05:20] <witnit_> exports directly to openoffice in my case directly to a label template
[16:05:32] <witnit_> off to the shop, seeya all
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[16:09:05] <anonimasu> anyone have a clue?
[16:09:28] <anonimasu> pcw_home: got a idea?
[16:11:29] <pcw_home> Not off hand
[16:11:38] <anonimasu> make a _offset_ comp?
[16:12:02] <anonimasu> to offset the encoder and pid signals
[16:20:04] <pcw_home> probably something like that
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[17:03:28] <anonimasu> what a pita.
[17:03:29] <anonimasu> :D
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[17:07:59] <pcw_home> well I dont think absolute encoders were even considered with linucnc homing
[17:08:00] <pcw_home> and you have an odd setup with a mix of reset-able incremental and an absolute reference
[17:09:39] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: do you guys make a module that i can use that can take 4-20mA current or 0-5VDC or 0-10VDC output
[17:09:52] <zeeshan|2> for current sensing purposes
[17:10:08] <zeeshan|2> and then throw the output of that into an input of the 7i77
[17:10:20] <pcw_home> So I expect you need to feed linuxcnc the absolute encoder number (which probably requires you to zero the quadrature at the same time you apply the offset)
[17:10:22] -!- alex_joni has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[17:10:45] <pcw_home> you could add a 7I87 (+-10V analog input)
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[17:11:40] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[17:12:13] <pcw_home> or if low resolution is OK connect to a 7I77 digital input 0,1,2 or 3
[17:12:27] <zeeshan|2> would this work with a strain gauge too?
[17:12:35] <zeeshan|2> that works on a 10v excitation
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[17:13:17] <pcw_home> strain gauges need a bridge amp
[17:13:34] <pcw_home> (they only output millivolts)
[17:13:39] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-5V-0-10V-4-20mA-Load-Cell-sensor-Amplifier-Transmitter-strain-gauge-transducer-/291236689062
[17:13:42] <zeeshan|2> so something like this
[17:13:48] <zeeshan|2> and then the output of this would go to the 7i87
[17:14:10] <zeeshan|2> interesting it has the same output ranges as the current transducers
[17:15:42] <zeeshan|2> http://www.lem.com/docs/products/at_b10_e.pdf
[17:15:48] <zeeshan|2> looks like this outputs 0-10V
[17:15:53] <zeeshan|2> proportional to 0 to 100A
[17:15:59] <zeeshan|2> (depending on the model)
[17:16:28] <zeeshan|2> what kind of resolution can i get if i directly put that into the di 0 , 1, 2, 3 inputs
[17:16:46] <zeeshan|2> +/- 0.1A?
[17:16:47] <zeeshan|2> :)
[17:17:20] <pcw_home> if you want .1A you would need the 7I87
[17:17:30] <pcw_home> (12 bits)
[17:18:13] <zeeshan|2> i would use the serial interface for the 7i77 to connect to 7i87?
[17:18:22] <zeeshan|2> (2 wires)
[17:18:59] <zeeshan|2> hm
[17:19:04] <zeeshan|2> looks like it uses an ethernet cable
[17:20:47] <zeeshan|2> your 7i87 board is only 99 bux
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[17:20:51] <zeeshan|2> thats pretty sweet for a daq.
[17:26:47] <Jymmm> 99¢
[17:27:33] <Jymmm> Dollar Store CNC =)
[17:28:09] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I wonder if that's even possible
[17:30:01] <Jymmm> "All components must be $1 or less (excluding tax), including structural, electrical, electronic, mechanical. Only exception being a uC/CPU"
[17:30:56] <roycroft> i don't know about your part of the world, but hardly anything at the dollar stores around here costs a dollar or less
[17:30:59] <Rab> Excluding the CPU is underachieving!
[17:31:05] <roycroft> they should call them five dollar stores
[17:31:28] <Rab> Jymmm, all new parts, or can you buy at thrift stores?
[17:31:42] <Jymmm> Rab: No, becsue they all must be nre/retail parts, no scavaging/dumpster diving/flea markte/ yard sale stuff
[17:31:53] <Jymmm> new*
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[17:34:17] <Jymmm> Rab: But there are no limits on the $1 retail items.
[17:34:44] <pcw_home> The 7I87 connects to the serial expansion port on the 7I77
[17:35:46] <Rab> There's a chain here called Dollartree that actually sells $1 items. They probably have HDPE cutting boards.
[17:36:21] <zeeshan|2> okay i think i see what youre doing
[17:36:24] <Rab> Crappy skateboard bearings probably under $1/ea.
[17:36:30] <zeeshan|2> you take a regular ethernet cable
[17:36:33] <zeeshan|2> and chop one end off
[17:36:37] <zeeshan|2> and wire it to the tb6 7i77 connector
[17:36:40] <zeeshan|2> and the other plugs in
[17:36:47] <zeeshan|2> to 7i87
[17:36:54] <pcw_home> yep
[17:37:01] <zeeshan|2> shielded?
[17:37:02] <jdh> why not just crmp one rj45 on
[17:37:14] <zeeshan|2> (is 7i87's connector metallic?)
[17:37:18] <zeeshan|2> jdh easier to chop
[17:37:20] <pcw_home> no
[17:37:33] <zeeshan|2> ok regular cable then
[17:37:42] <zeeshan|2> its twisted pair and differential signals so i gues shielded doesnt matter too much
[17:38:03] <pcw_home> not much, good to 100M or so
[17:38:13] <Jymmm> Rab: DollarTree, 99¢ Store, Dollar General, etc
[17:38:20] <zeeshan|2> Rab: did you hear
[17:38:21] <zeeshan|2> i blew 3 drives
[17:38:27] <zeeshan|2> reason unknown still :P
[17:38:55] <archivist> what is in common
[17:39:11] <zeeshan|2> blew up caps
[17:39:17] <archivist> one power supply or 3
[17:39:25] <zeeshan|2> oh pwoer supply blow up with my fault
[17:39:36] <zeeshan|2> i plugged it in knowing well there was a short inside the thing it was powering
[17:39:41] <zeeshan|2> and it blew up the voltage regulator on the supply
[17:39:41] <archivist> could be the other way round
[17:39:51] <zeeshan|2> because without the load connected
[17:39:55] <zeeshan|2> i was measuring 170vdc
[17:40:07] <zeeshan|2> after i connected the shorted drive
[17:40:20] <zeeshan|2> and remeasured output with the load disconnected
[17:40:21] <zeeshan|2> 0 v
[17:40:23] <zeeshan|2> :)
[17:40:35] <zeeshan|2> i was hoping i'd see where the smoke was coming from
[17:40:44] <zeeshan|2> but nothing was too obvious on the servo drive
[17:41:09] <archivist> that is not a sensible fault finding method
[17:41:16] <zeeshan|2> well i was frustrated last night
[17:41:30] <zeeshan|2> i've talked to all you guys in here who are well versed in electronics than me
[17:41:33] <zeeshan|2> and the drive manufacturer
[17:41:38] <zeeshan|2> and done everything suggested
[17:41:45] <zeeshan|2> three times over
[17:41:59] <zeeshan|2> so i decided to resort to brutal checks :)
[17:42:12] <zeeshan|2> <- shady mechanic techniques
[17:42:14] <mozmck> sledge hammer
[17:42:20] <Rab> zeeshan|2, you blew up a third drive? In the Z position?
[17:42:20] <zeeshan|2> dude
[17:42:25] <zeeshan|2> rab yea
[17:42:34] <Rab> zeeshan|2, sorry to hear that.
[17:42:39] <zeeshan|2> mozmck: dude i even had a plastic bag over the circuit
[17:42:41] <zeeshan|2> when i powered it
[17:42:47] <zeeshan|2> i was thinkign i could see where it melts :-)
[17:42:50] <zeeshan|2> didn't work out
[17:43:09] <zeeshan|2> Rab: np! :P
[17:43:34] <Rab> zeeshan|2, using my powers of deduction, I conclude that the drives were not at fault.
[17:43:38] <zeeshan|2> there is a high possibility the person who sold me the drives knew 3 were bad
[17:43:46] <zeeshan|2> the only thing i haven't tried
[17:43:48] <zeeshan|2> is move the X drive to Z
[17:43:51] <zeeshan|2> and see what happens
[17:43:55] <mozmck> what kind of drives?
[17:43:59] <zeeshan|2> 4 drives in a row? :-)
[17:44:02] <zeeshan|2> amc be25a20ac
[17:44:15] <archivist> one drive killing the psu then that killing others is possible
[17:44:22] <mozmck> Do they get hot before dying?
[17:44:31] <Rab> zeeshan|2, you know that'll kill your X drive. Something else is going on.
[17:44:34] <zeeshan|2> not that i notice
[17:44:44] <zeeshan|2> so what should i do?
[17:44:46] <zeeshan|2> just replace the motor
[17:44:55] <zeeshan|2> cause that's the only thing that can be causing it
[17:45:03] <zeeshan|2> i tried doing the light bulb test on the motor
[17:45:21] <zeeshan|2> and also turning it slowly and measuring ohms at different locations to find an intermittent short
[17:45:26] <zeeshan|2> and really nothing was shown
[17:45:41] <mozmck> Does it run for a while or blow up as soon as you power it up?
[17:45:47] <zeeshan|2> it runs for a while
[17:45:49] <zeeshan|2> then i disable it
[17:45:51] <zeeshan|2> and power cycle it
[17:45:56] <zeeshan|2> and it blows up asap i turn it on
[17:45:59] <zeeshan|2> a cap shoots sparks
[17:46:23] <mozmck> That's odd. Cap shooting sparks sounds like over-voltage?
[17:46:34] <pcw_home> It might be that theres something about too large a motor that causes this (the drive is about 1/4 as big as it needs to be for Z)
[17:46:47] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: even in non running state?
[17:47:03] <Rab> zeeshan|2, seems like you were spending a lot of time trying to figure out the brake before this happened. That may be the root cause...shorting to ground when brake engaged, or disengaged, or something.
[17:47:23] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[17:48:01] <zeeshan|2> amc wants me to buy a new drive
[17:48:02] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:48:06] <zeeshan|2> and try
[17:48:17] <pcw_home> Or motor wiring or bad brushes or incorrect primary wiring (the separate switching is suspect to me)
[17:48:57] <zeeshan|2> primary wiring only thing is diff is it gets power from l2
[17:49:08] <zeeshan|2> what switching are you talking about?
[17:49:20] <zeeshan|2> the fact that l1 -> x ,y l2-> z go through the same contactor?
[17:49:36] <zeeshan|2> and maybe the voltage is jumping over the contacts?
[17:49:50] <pcw_home> I would power all from a common source
[17:50:19] <zeeshan|2> so either put all x y z on l2
[17:50:21] <zeeshan|2> or keep em on l1
[17:50:53] <pcw_home> I would
[17:51:12] <Rab> So what's controlling the drives? And is it powered from L1, or L2?
[17:51:24] <zeeshan|2> rab whatcha mean
[17:51:35] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0
[17:51:47] <zeeshan|2> i would appreciate a sanity check over my brake wiring
[17:51:51] <Rab> Just tell me, don't make me load your massive PDF again.
[17:51:58] <zeeshan|2> this is the small one :)
[17:53:02] <zeeshan|2> L1 ->15A fuse -> contactor 3 pole , #1 pole -> x drive ;;; L1 ->15A fuse -> contactor 3 pole , #2 pole -> y drive ;;; L2 ->15A fuse -> contactor 3 pole , #3 pole -> z drive
[17:53:25] <zeeshan|2> it is a 600V contactor
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[17:53:38] <zeeshan|2> so its suprising there is an arc jump
[17:54:27] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: it is easier for me to move the Z drive
[17:54:30] <zeeshan|2> to a seperate contactor
[17:54:33] <pcw_home> I dont trust that arrangement I would wire all to the same line an use one contact for all
[17:54:34] <zeeshan|2> that is only seeing l2
[17:54:54] <pcw_home> Bad news use only one supply for all
[17:55:00] <zeeshan|2> ok
[17:55:23] <Rab> pcw_home, I assume 7I77 outputs are isolated?
[17:55:28] * JT-Shop gives up trying to get a python script to run in a M100 and goes for a bicycle ride in the woods
[17:56:16] <zeeshan|2> question
[17:56:22] <zeeshan|2> could bad contacts on a contactor do this ?
[17:56:34] <zeeshan|2> like if 2 of the contacts are closer before the 3rd contact
[17:56:38] <zeeshan|2> due to uneven wear
[17:57:04] <pcw_home> No they are not isolated (the digital outputs are, the analog outputs are not)
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[17:58:38] <Rab> Hmm, the BE25A20 does have optoisolated inputs.
[17:58:56] <pcw_home> It has to, its line operated
[17:59:38] <zeeshan|2> unrelated comment:
[17:59:45] <zeeshan|2> the other day i noticed my 15 ft vga cable
[17:59:51] <zeeshan|2> causes scan lines to show up on my monitor!
[18:01:04] <mozmck> put your cell phone next to it and it might get more interesting!
[18:01:08] <zeeshan|2> lol
[18:01:39] <zeeshan|2> i shoulda used a dvi cable
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[18:18:24] <renesis> zeeshan|2: yes
[18:18:35] <renesis> thats why they exist
[18:19:00] <renesis> cheap on moniprice get a long one
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[18:23:53] <zeeshan|2> amc called me
[18:24:07] <zeeshan|2> she's saying she'll get it revirewed by the people who know the circuits really well
[18:24:17] <zeeshan|2> but she can think of 2 possibilities that can cause failures like this
[18:24:40] <zeeshan|2> 1. somehow reversing l1 and neutral intermittently
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[18:24:57] <zeeshan|2> 2. not looking at the fault output
[18:25:06] <zeeshan|2> so basically the faulting is self resetting
[18:25:17] <zeeshan|2> and i need to tie that into my controller somehow
[18:25:41] <jdh> how does one reverse l1 and neutral
[18:25:45] <zeeshan|2> no idea
[18:25:53] <zeeshan|2> i gotta taker a closer look
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[18:26:21] <Crom_> hmmmm looking at a photo interrupter from a floppy drive wondering what kind of digitizing probe I could make with it
[18:26:23] <Crom_> really small one
[18:28:00] <jdh> use three like a renishaw clone instead of breaking contact
[18:31:29] <Crom_> now I have to find 2 more HP floppies by citizen
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[18:44:22] <ssi> I got a little spartan6 dev board in the mail today finally
[18:44:34] <ssi> I think I can use this to prototype the next commutation converter before I spin it
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[18:54:46] <Crom_> why a FPGA board?
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[19:08:18] <jdh> you can buy the interrupters for almost free
[19:09:42] <Crom_> trying to think of a digitizer design using interrupters
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[19:12:56] <Crom_> hmm having a bar sit in the bottom of the U so soon as it moves into the beam it detects...
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[19:33:38] <Tom_itx> PCW you around?
[19:35:27] <pcw_home> yeah
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[19:36:39] <Tom_itx> i was looking at a 7i47S bitfile
[19:37:10] <Tom_itx> can the aux and pwmenable be used as GPIO or other functions or do they need to be kept for the PWMGEN?
[19:37:21] <Tom_itx> all i really need is pwm and direction
[19:38:43] <Tom_itx> if not i still think i can get by; i'm not using the 4th axis stepgen yet
[19:38:44] <pcw_home> aux is just GPIO, pwmena is connected to the analog circuitry so the analog out is forced to 0 if PWMENA is off
[19:38:57] <Tom_itx> so that one needs to stay
[19:39:01] <pcw_home> dir can be GPIO also
[19:39:15] <Tom_itx> yeah, i'll need that one
[19:40:03] <Tom_itx> do i need a RMA or something if i swap with you?
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[19:40:54] <Tom_itx> and i'll need to make up the cost difference...
[19:40:54] <pcw_home> well the boss will probably require it
[19:40:58] <Tom_itx> heh
[19:41:25] <pcw_home> let me look in the junk box I may have one
[19:42:15] <Tom_itx> i think this may be a better way to go than to try fighting the cnc4pc board
[19:44:06] <Tom_itx> i'll fiddle with it a bit this afternoon and see where i get but i'm not putting alot of hope in it
[19:46:53] literally_h1tler is now known as toastydeath
[19:47:32] <Tom_itx> the 7i47S shows out of stock anyway
[19:48:32] <pcw_home> a SPINX1 will work though
[19:48:42] <Tom_itx> what's that?
[19:49:19] <pcw_home> little standalone PWM --> isolated POT board
[19:49:29] <Tom_itx> hmm
[19:49:36] <Tom_itx> yeah that would be ok
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[19:49:50] <pcw_home> basically the analog part of a 7I47S
[19:49:54] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:50:08] <pcw_home> (well but has FOR and REV outputs)
[19:51:11] <Tom_itx> that shouldn't matter
[19:52:42] <Tom_itx> 5v output on those?
[19:53:15] <pcw_home> uncommitted OPTO outputs
[19:53:44] <Tom_itx> so i could use 24 if i wanted?
[19:54:03] <pcw_home> 50 mA 100V max
[19:54:23] <Tom_itx> enough to drive a relay
[19:54:46] <pcw_home> They will drive a little relay (with flyback protection)
[19:55:04] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:56:13] <jdh> I have a cnc4pc c41. works well but sewms overky complex
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[19:57:05] <Tom_itx> yeah connor has the 41 too
[19:57:30] <Tom_itx> jdh, what pwm input are you using?
[19:57:39] <Tom_itx> parport or mesa pwm?
[19:57:46] <jdh> 7i43?
[19:57:56] <Tom_itx> with stepgen or pwmgen?
[19:58:03] <jdh> pwm
[19:58:24] <Tom_itx> you mind if i look at that part of your config?
[19:58:46] <jdh> cant get to it from here
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[19:59:00] <Tom_itx> ok
[19:59:15] <Tom_itx> the pwm seems a bit touchy on the C6 board
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[19:59:46] <jdh> send it back
[19:59:57] <Tom_itx> it was free :)
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[20:00:14] <jdh> not worth it
[20:00:14] <Tom_itx> i figured i'd give it a go and see
[20:00:17] <Tom_itx> heh
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[20:14:57] <Crom_> really good story http://storiesonline.net/s/76454
[20:17:14] <andypugh> “Caution” makes me think it doesn’t have a lot to do with CNC
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[20:18:55] <Crom_> none in the slightest
[20:19:11] <JT-Shop> andypugh, nevermind about my suggestion on the mailing list seems you can't execute a python script in a M100 or at least I can't
[20:19:30] <andypugh> You should be able to
[20:19:32] <cradek> sure you can
[20:19:52] <Crom_> dies comes back in another body, dies comes back in yet another body, dies comes back in his original body back in the timeline, dies comes back in yet another body, ...
[20:20:01] <andypugh> I think your scripts might be malformed, the #! needs to point at python and nothing else
[20:20:08] <cradek> if M100 is executable it doesn't matter what kind of executable thing it is
[20:20:11] <JT-Shop> the M100 files will run when I try them in a terminal but nothing happens when I try MDI or in a G code file
[20:20:33] <cradek> nothing at all?
[20:21:21] <JT-Shop> nope, not even an error message when I run LinuxCNC from terminal
[20:21:28] <andypugh> I feel slightly soiled, I am currently working in a slicer in Autodesk Inventor VBA, to slice models without the faceting of the STL phase)
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[20:21:50] <jdh> for your reprap?
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[20:22:06] <andypugh> For someone else’s DLP printer
[20:22:10] <Crom_> hmm stupid question, you try it as M101?
[20:22:35] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/Rp5sdk4S
[20:22:41] <jdh> that's better anyway
[20:22:45] <JT-Shop> M110, M111, M112
[20:22:59] <cradek> M110 isn't part of the file is it?
[20:23:04] <JT-Shop> no
[20:23:14] <cradek> try #!/usr/bin/python (no space)
[20:23:22] <JT-Shop> ok
[20:23:42] <Crom_> just what I noticed also lose the ' '
[20:23:54] <cradek> these are in your nc_files directory?
[20:24:19] <andypugh> Perhaps they need to be in SUBROUTINE_PATH?
[20:24:42] <JT-Shop> yes, in my nc_files directory
[20:24:44] <cradek> if they're not found I'd expect an error like "M100 not defined"
[20:24:52] <Crom_> The specified User Defined Command does not exist
[20:25:09] <andypugh> Though much as I appreciate the effort, the little X-forwarded halmeter watching motion.program-line is working well, it goes to 0 on pause.
[20:25:10] <Crom_> I'd think it's the space
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[20:25:33] <JT-Shop> if I try a bogus name I get unknown m code used
[20:26:00] <cradek> I see you're writing to the current working directory
[20:26:06] <cradek> where do you look for the status.html file?
[20:26:27] <cradek> I bet it's not where you expect
[20:26:31] <JT-Shop> nc_files, it shows up if I run M110 from a terminal
[20:26:36] <cradek> heh
[20:26:39] <cradek> yeah it's not where you expect
[20:26:52] <cradek> it's probably in your config directory
[20:27:28] <cradek> cwd can be whatever
[20:27:45] <JT-Shop> cradek, you win the prize it is in the config directory
[20:27:54] <cradek> yay what do I win?
[20:28:08] <andypugh> if you add a “print ‘I finished’” at the end of the M110 do you see that in the terminal?
[20:28:11] <JT-Shop> anything you want that I can send via email
[20:28:45] <JT-Shop> andypugh, the file ended up in the config directory
[20:28:53] <andypugh> Yeah, I saw :-)
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[20:30:54] <JT-Shop> ok, works as expected. thanks for helping cradek
[20:31:12] <JT-Shop> now I can monitor my lathe from my desk
[20:31:15] <cradek> welcome!
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[20:31:29] <Crom_> kudos man
[20:31:57] <JT-Shop> andypugh, because the html refreshes often you see the change in the source from the remote without aksing
[20:31:59] <JT-Shop> asking
[20:32:44] <JT-Shop> now to make a new burner holder the last one came out wrong :(
[20:33:23] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I might try it then, though the halmeter is possibly easier as it sits in the corner of the screen out of the way.
[20:33:27] <Crom_> JT-Shop, holder for the plasma touch?
[20:33:45] <andypugh> Keith Fenner has a neat magnetic one
[20:34:00] <andypugh> Seems like a decent idea.
[20:34:17] <Crom_> andy you beat me to it.. it's not magnetic, it's held by sprint loaded pins
[20:34:24] <Crom_> spring
[20:34:36] <andypugh> Ah. Well, magnets would be better ;-)
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[20:34:46] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9hBQafpr9M
[20:34:56] <Crom_> he takes bolts drills them out to put in a spring and a bolt
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[20:35:39] <Crom_> the pins are better for repeatability
[20:35:50] <Crom_> he actually sells them
[20:36:13] <andypugh> Yeah, I know. He suscribes to my YouTube feed ;-)
[20:36:26] <Crom_> Turn Wright machine works
[20:36:32] <Crom_> what's your channel?
[20:36:40] <JT-Shop> Crom_, burner for my melting furnace
[20:37:20] <JT-Shop> andypugh, the browser window can be rather small, you just need to change the title
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[20:37:38] <Crom_> ahhh I haven't made one yet... I have a propane bottle already cuy to make one though..
[20:37:42] <Crom_> cut
[20:38:40] <JT-Shop> the burner is dead simple and really puts out some heat with a nice neutral flame
[20:38:41] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/casting/
[20:38:50] * furrywolf hopes the bottle was empty first
[20:38:50] <Crom_> ahh there your are andypugh ON YOUTUBE
[20:38:53] <andypugh> I am going to try using my electric furnace for melting first
[20:39:56] <furrywolf> one of my friends accidentally removed the valve from his full propane tank instead of the empty one once...
[20:40:46] <Crom_> ouch!
[20:41:39] <furrywolf> he said it only went whoosh for a couple seconds, then he looked down and could see the boiling propane in the bottom of it, and at that point it had stopped whooshing enough that he just threaded the valve back in.
[20:41:56] <furrywolf> I think it evaporated so fast it cooled itself to where it didn't evaporate much anymore.
[20:42:02] <Crom_> Yep
[20:42:39] <andypugh> I reckon this, in a vertical posture, with a steel crucible inside ought to melt brass: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0KBnb_gsIAVDxe1ALNSTsNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[20:42:40] <furrywolf> and fortunately there were no ignition sources nearby to ignite the giant cloud of propane vapor he was standing in the middle of. heh.
[20:43:08] <andypugh> Did he remember not to turn off the light?
[20:43:27] <furrywolf> it was outside
[20:43:50] <Crom_> andypugh, I couldn't hear.. what clock are you linking to in slave clock to MSF radio
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[20:44:42] <andypugh> http://felixonline.co.uk/news/5198/union-clock-in-beit-quad-is-once-again-keeping-time/
[20:45:54] <cradek> > recording what positions the hands are in when power fails
[20:45:55] <cradek> how?
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[20:46:20] <andypugh> It just saves the last time that it sent a pulse to the on-board eeprom
[20:46:49] <cradek> oh it saves it when power fails (but while it still has some leftover power left)?
[20:47:01] <Crom_> andypugh, nice!! Most of my clocks in the house sync to WWVD
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[20:47:03] <andypugh> No, it saves every pulse
[20:47:21] <cradek> doesn't that burn out the eeprom in a week?
[20:47:26] <andypugh> There is scope for carnage if the power fails during the eeprom write
[20:48:27] <andypugh> I use a wear-levelling algorithm that indexes the low-order bytes of unix-time into suitably sized chunks of the 1k eeprom based on the high-order bytes in address 0 and 1
[20:48:48] <andypugh> And it only pulses every 30 seconds.
[20:48:56] <cradek> I should've figured you would have thought about it
[20:48:58] <Crom_> using which battery to save state during power loss? Since the receiver is so small, a 12v gel cell is overkill
[20:49:00] <furrywolf> writes don't damage eeproms... erases do. so if you invent a format that starts at all 0s and takes a long time to reach all 1s, before you have to erase, you can make it last much longer.
[20:49:13] <andypugh> My algorithm is good for 40 years. A very pednatic friend came up with an 800-year variation
[20:49:45] <furrywolf> or is that all 1s and reaching 0s? /me hasn't done any low-level eeprom stuff in a decade and a half
[20:50:32] <cradek> is there homing for a full set from unknown condition?
[20:51:15] <andypugh> cradek: Only manually via +30 seconds and +30 minutes buttons.
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[20:51:38] <Crom_> what ever happened to static ram? Takes almost no power to save state.
[20:51:39] <cradek> ah, cool, easy enough for anyone to understand
[20:51:51] <roycroft> how do you accommodate leap seconds, andypugh?
[20:52:01] <andypugh> This is the interesting wear-levelling algorithm a friend came up with. His day job is C-code for nuclear weapons… http://pastebin.com/wR8n0dG1
[20:52:05] <Crom_> no second hand... you don't
[20:52:20] <andypugh> roycroft: I trust the NPL to do that for me.
[20:52:35] <roycroft> hmm
[20:52:42] <roycroft> we'll we're having one this year
[20:52:50] <roycroft> and the whole internet is going to break!
[20:53:05] <roycroft> at least that's what i've been hearing on the mass media
[20:53:37] <furrywolf> andy: heh, that's about what I was picturing in my head.
[20:54:23] <furrywolf> What you don't know about internet time keeping could KILL YOUR COMPUTER! Tune in at 10pm tonight for the shocking story on how something as trivial as a second could end the world as we know it!
[20:54:39] <Crom_> andypugh, I have a windows computer with a dead battery so it can't keep time for beans... I hooked a $4.00USD Earthmate GPS to the serial port wrote a powerbasic program to set time every time it discovers time has drifted by over a second.
[20:55:19] <Crom_> yeah I could have changed the battery... but that would mean a trip to the store... I had the earthmate
[20:55:28] <furrywolf> because that's easier than installing tardis or whatever passes for a freeway time sync program these days? :)
[20:55:33] <furrywolf> freeware
[20:55:36] <andypugh> cradek: I decided that the cheapest and easiest way to recover from an unknown state woud be to have a webcam and machine vision at the opposite side of the quad :-)
[20:56:16] <Crom_> heh, no spare GPS laying around?
[20:56:56] <andypugh> GPS is no help for a pulse clock face with no feedback
[20:57:31] <andypugh> The MSF radio gives better time than the GPS, it tracks summer time
[20:58:05] <Crom_> mount some rotary position sensors to the hour and minute shafts
[20:58:16] <andypugh> How?
[20:58:24] <furrywolf> all you need is an index switch, not an actual encoder.
[20:58:42] <Crom_> most laser printers have one, and I'm sure you could find a couple dead ones at the Uni
[20:59:13] <Crom_> furry true
[20:59:17] <andypugh> There are lots of ways to do it. But the webcam would be cheaper. I was just making a point about the state of technology at the mment.
[20:59:37] <furrywolf> from an unknown state, spin it until it reads 12:00, spin to the correct time.
[21:00:06] <andypugh> Yeah, but that would involve messing with the mechanism. Which in interesting and old.
[21:00:47] <Crom_> black ziptie and an optical interrupter
[21:00:55] <andypugh> (and an index on the hour hand would actually be mildy tricky) https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0mrhOIdYcLjS456K3qFUbFkqfDq8gh186JKvicy1EOc?feat=directlink
[21:01:51] <furrywolf> machine vision is a cute solution - I'm just not sure it's faster. heh.
[21:02:37] <Crom_> furrywolf, totally faster...
[21:03:13] <furrywolf> to install a camera at a remote location, run cable or set up wireless video, process the video with various machine vision algorithms that don't screw up in dark or fog, etc?
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[21:03:44] <Crom_> paint a red line on the hour gear and a blue line on the minute gear, spin until both are visable and them calculate time, then adjust from there
[21:03:58] <andypugh> It’s a university building. CAT5 cabling is not a problem.
[21:04:32] <furrywolf> my experience with machine vision is nothing is ever as simple as you might hope.
[21:04:55] <andypugh> Ooh! motion.program-line == 0 . Time to unclamp the rotary :-)
[21:05:26] <furrywolf> crom: or just two pairs of black and white lines and two simple photosensors.
[21:06:02] <furrywolf> actually, the way one gear is cut out over the other, you could do it with one sensor and some clever coding.
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[21:07:37] <andypugh> Light-out machining in the home workshop. What fun :-)
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[21:10:42] <Crom_> I'm fighting a 3040 right now.. yoocnc nt65-3x board using Toshiba TB6560 drivers.. I lifted M2 instead of M1 so instead of setting 1/2 micro step I set 1/16 microstep
[21:11:55] <Crom_> now I have to remove the board again take off the hink sink, lift M2 (ping 23) on the drivers, flip it over resolder M2 down and reassemble
[21:12:42] <Crom_> and add a 5v line to a 3.5mm stereo jack for the probe so I can use opti interrupters for the probe.
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[21:14:59] <Crom_> tip data, ring 1 +5v thru a 440 resister and ring 2 gnd
[21:18:17] <andypugh> proves are normally just a 2-wire switch
[21:18:26] <andypugh> Are there not optos on the inputs to the board?
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[21:18:47] <cradek> I doubt this leap second will destroy the internet when the previous ones haven't...
[21:19:12] <cradek> interesting that they've been quite regular since 2006
[21:19:29] <andypugh> The earth is slowing down
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[21:20:23] <roycroft> but, cradek, the other ones did not make the mainstream media
[21:20:26] <roycroft> that's why this one is different
[21:20:47] <roycroft> actually, i think last leap second some social media service broke briefly
[21:21:02] <furrywolf> some airline's flight scheduler failed
[21:21:08] <roycroft> and since any single service on the internet comprises the entire internet, that one thing breaking a little means the whole internet broke
[21:21:43] <furrywolf> roycroft. it's not just the internet, it's the world. remember, people call 911 when facebook is down. :P
[21:22:00] <andypugh> If that isn’t an energency I don’t knw what is
[21:22:17] <cradek> I always read about facebook outages in the newspaper, haha
[21:22:35] <cradek> it must be very important to people who aren't me
[21:24:15] <cradek> quite consistent since 2006: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_second#mediaviewer/File:Leapsecond.ut1-utc.svg
[21:24:21] <furrywolf> re the $2 stop switches, I tried subjecting mine to a bit of abuse, and it hasn't broken yet.
[21:24:32] <cradek> something about the planet sure changed around 1998-99
[21:25:25] <furrywolf> specifically, I actuated it about a hundred times, including slamming a first into it several times.
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[21:27:46] <zeeshan|2> guys
[21:27:53] <zeeshan|2> i think i might know why i fried 3 drives
[21:28:06] <zeeshan|2> see if this makes sense
[21:28:08] <furrywolf> oh?
[21:29:06] <zeeshan|2> my servo motor rating is 15.3A cont @ 173V
[21:29:50] <furrywolf> ok
[21:29:59] <zeeshan|2> i might have exceeded the voltage limit
[21:30:13] <zeeshan|2> my drive spec says
[21:30:18] <zeeshan|2> 30-125VAC
[21:30:24] <zeeshan|2> dc supply range = 40 - 190vdc
[21:30:28] <furrywolf> it doesn't work that way. :)
[21:30:52] <zeeshan|2> ??
[21:31:06] <furrywolf> the drive won't output more voltage than it is given from the mains input
[21:31:17] <zeeshan|2> how am i measuring 180V?
[21:31:23] <zeeshan|2> dc
[21:31:27] <furrywolf> and the servo won't be damaged by excessive voltage
[21:31:33] <furrywolf> 120 * sqrt(2)
[21:31:45] <andypugh> cradek: Boxing Day Tsunami plate shift?
[21:32:10] <zeeshan|2> okay so 120.7VAC * 1.414
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[21:32:24] <zeeshan|2> 170.6V dc
[21:32:39] <zeeshan|2> its at the limit , but should be okay :/
[21:32:48] <Crom_> andypugh, nice chuck in your horizontal clutch milling video, same one I have on my Sheldon Sheldon
[21:33:14] <furrywolf> your drive also has a built-in shunt regulator, such that if the motor acts as a generator enough to push the supply rail too high (I think it said 195V, but you'd need to check the manual), it dumps it into a big resistor.
[21:33:31] <andypugh> It’s a special Myford one, with the thread in the body. The dividing head has a Myford thread.
[21:34:15] <furrywolf> also, the voltage rating on the servo is not a hard limit. you can probably go to several hundred volts for short periods of time.
[21:35:14] <zeeshan|2> :[
[21:35:18] <furrywolf> the continuous rating is what it won't burn out at if you run it that way all day. for short periods, limited by temperature rise, you can go much higher.
[21:35:35] <zeeshan|2> yea the manual for the motor says
[21:35:36] <furrywolf> this is why you can set the peak current well over the continuous current.
[21:35:37] <zeeshan|2> 110A peaks are ok
[21:35:43] <furrywolf> like that. :P
[21:36:31] <zeeshan|2> i have one final drive left
[21:36:37] <zeeshan|2> i wanna give it the best possible chance
[21:36:48] <zeeshan|2> 400$ burned so far
[21:36:57] <Crom_> really looks like mine, though mine has an adapter plate to my 1 3/4"-8TPI spindle
[21:37:01] <zeeshan|2> [basing this on replacement cost of a used drive]
[21:37:34] <zeeshan|2> im thinking i might just keep it as a spare for x and y replacement
[21:37:37] <furrywolf> I don't have any ideas why they're blowing...
[21:37:47] <zeeshan|2> im thinking i need to do 2 steps:
[21:37:55] <zeeshan|2> 1. take the servo motor out and send it out for testing
[21:38:00] <zeeshan|2> someone who has proper equipment
[21:38:01] <furrywolf> 1) tell manufacturer to send you 3 new drives? :)
[21:38:11] <zeeshan|2> 2. buy a larger capacity Z drive
[21:38:31] <zeeshan|2> or.
[21:38:35] <zeeshan|2> optional step:
[21:38:37] <zeeshan|2> buy a brand new motor
[21:38:41] <zeeshan|2> and drive that goes w/ it.
[21:38:44] <zeeshan|2> like pete did
[21:38:58] <furrywolf> capacity shouldn't have anything to do with it... a drive _should_ protect itself against anything your motor does...
[21:39:15] <zeeshan|2> i'd think that too
[21:39:27] <zeeshan|2> especially since they blow when they're just sitting in disabled state. not moving
[21:39:54] <furrywolf> could still be some problem with your power wiring that you haven't found...
[21:40:07] <furrywolf> or design flaw in the drives
[21:40:11] <zeeshan|2> yea the lady from amc told me
[21:40:16] <zeeshan|2> reversing the neutral and hot
[21:40:22] <zeeshan|2> will blow the drive like i've had em blow
[21:40:38] <zeeshan|2> this is something you said too
[21:40:41] <furrywolf> ... it shouldn't. that means they have something designed very, very utterly wrong.
[21:40:48] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 send me your last driver
[21:40:51] <Tom_itx> :)
[21:40:52] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: no!
[21:40:56] <zeeshan|2> its my spare for x and y
[21:40:58] <Crom_> hmmm rig some sort of zeiner diode circuit for dumping excess current?
[21:41:05] <Tom_itx> you dont know how to treat them right!!!
[21:41:07] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[21:41:10] <zeeshan|2> you can have my 3 burned ones
[21:41:25] <furrywolf> now, if you're accidentally _switching_ the neutral, or you got neutral and hot miswired from the main power input...
[21:41:36] <Tom_itx> if the chips weren't covered up i might take you up on that
[21:41:39] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: if i had them miswired
[21:41:46] <zeeshan|2> wouldnt they blow up on first power up?
[21:41:56] <furrywolf> dunno
[21:42:09] <zeeshan|2> the only thing left to try is
[21:42:15] <zeeshan|2> keeping all drives on l1
[21:42:19] <zeeshan|2> instead of z on l2 by itself
[21:42:20] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 i'm somewhat determined on this board but the scales are tipping toward mesa right now
[21:42:32] <furrywolf> you need a 'scope.
[21:42:32] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: it's not working?
[21:42:38] <Tom_itx> not like it should
[21:42:42] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: assume i have a scope
[21:42:45] <zeeshan|2> what would i check?
[21:42:48] <Tom_itx> i need to get the pwm scale figured out
[21:42:57] <zeeshan|2> ill buy a scope
[21:43:01] <zeeshan|2> ive been wanting to for a while
[21:43:08] <Tom_itx> get a logic analizer
[21:43:28] <furrywolf> line voltage, motor outputs, umm... try to find anything that glitches on e-stop or un-e-stop.
[21:43:47] <zeeshan|2> would i not have to plug in the drive
[21:43:51] <zeeshan|2> =D
[21:43:55] <Tom_itx> with the right tools you can tune before you fry the bacon
[21:44:11] <zeeshan|2> or you want me to measure the transient voltage
[21:44:12] <zeeshan|2> at the mains
[21:44:15] <zeeshan|2> of the entire system
[21:44:40] <Crom_> heh andy time to put a stepper on the tail stock
[21:44:51] <furrywolf> measure everything until you find something that looks like it'd make a driver fry. :P
[21:44:56] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:45:04] <zeeshan|2> the thing is
[21:45:10] <zeeshan|2> it's protected from transient spikes
[21:45:18] <zeeshan|2> i need to relook at my circuit
[21:45:20] <furrywolf> you might need a large supply of spare drivers, however.
[21:45:28] <zeeshan|2> and see if somehow im for a dumbass reason switching l2 and neutral
[21:45:29] <zeeshan|2> somehow
[21:45:56] <zeeshan|2> the only place it can happen is at the contactor
[21:45:58] <furrywolf> cut zip ties and follow wires?
[21:46:02] <zeeshan|2> i really dont see how i could possible wire it
[21:46:12] <zeeshan|2> furry dont even have to do that man
[21:46:16] <zeeshan|2> you know how i checked my wiring when i was doing it?
[21:46:32] <zeeshan|2> before i connected the wire, i would check ohms on the wire
[21:46:34] <furrywolf> even switching neutral wouldn't immediately fry it unless there was another load on the same neutral but on the other power leg
[21:46:37] <zeeshan|2> from the two end points
[21:46:47] <Crom_> lick your finger and test?
[21:46:51] <furrywolf> in theory, there's absolutely no difference between theory and practice.
[21:46:58] <furrywolf> in reality, check your wiring. :P
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[21:47:39] <Crom_> In practice, Theory never matches practice
[21:47:42] <furrywolf> obviously something is wrong. it may not be your wiring. but it should be checked anyway.
[21:48:13] <Crom_> is there somewhere you can have an inductance input into your wiring?
[21:48:38] <furrywolf> the drive, imho, looks crappily designed.
[21:49:04] <zeeshan|2> trust me, i'm definitely not buying amc again
[21:49:08] <zeeshan|2> ive been trying to find alternatives
[21:49:17] <zeeshan|2> was hoping someone in here had a recommendation for a good drive
[21:49:30] <zeeshan|2> tachometer based, vel feedback,
[21:49:47] <zeeshan|2> 15A cont, and as high as possible peak
[21:50:02] <zeeshan|2> glentek has a bad rep too
[21:50:15] <zeeshan|2> amc has a pretty bad rep too when you google for amc drive failures
[21:50:36] <zeeshan|2> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.machines.cnc/inxWR1UN94c
[21:50:37] <zeeshan|2> :)
[21:52:58] <furrywolf> heh
[21:54:13] <pcw_home> Yeah but try all on L1 with a single contact first
[21:54:26] <zeeshan|2> how can i use a single contact
[21:54:30] <zeeshan|2> theyre on seperate fuses
[21:54:40] <furrywolf> use one fuse twice the size?
[21:54:46] <zeeshan|2> and the contact rating is 20A
[21:54:56] <zeeshan|2> 3x15a = 45A
[21:55:19] <furrywolf> anyway, aren't you using fancy snap-together modular fuse holders that you could just move to the other line?
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[21:55:28] <furrywolf> or swap wires (and fuses) with one of the vfds or something?
[21:55:31] <zeeshan|2> it's not that easy
[21:55:36] <zeeshan|2> cause im using a comb bus bar
[21:55:47] <zeeshan|2> what i can do is move the PC and 24vdc supplies
[21:55:51] <zeeshan|2> to l2.
[21:55:51] <furrywolf> or simply swap power plugs with the x or y drive, test, and if z still blows, it wasn't the power input, but if x or y blows, it is? :P
[21:56:27] <pcw_home> fuse separately but run from the same line
[21:57:17] <zeeshan|2> i'm not trying to argue , just trying to understand your logic
[21:57:30] <zeeshan|2> how does moving the power from l2 to l1 change things
[21:57:39] <furrywolf> I like the plug swapping idea, but all of these will result in frying your last drive.
[21:58:02] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xbe25a20a&_nkw=be25a20ac&_sacat=0
[21:58:05] <zeeshan|2> the replacement drive
[21:58:07] <zeeshan|2> will get very expensive
[21:58:09] <zeeshan|2> 275$1
[21:58:10] <zeeshan|2> !!
[21:58:53] <zeeshan|2> i really wanan understand the logic
[21:58:55] <zeeshan|2> of moving l2 to l1
[21:59:08] <zeeshan|2> in a normal situation both l2 to n and l1 to n are 120vac
[21:59:09] <andypugh> Half price, if you buy all 7 then you save $1750
[21:59:22] <zeeshan|2> lol
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[22:00:53] <furrywolf> I can't think of any testing to perform at this point that doesn't seriously jeapordize your last driver.
[22:01:10] <furrywolf> replace the drive with a light bulb and see if it does what it should?
[22:01:19] <zeeshan|2> i did do that
[22:01:22] <zeeshan|2> didnt do much
[22:01:38] <furrywolf> did it turn on and off with your e-stop, and didn't get abnormally bright?
[22:01:47] <zeeshan|2> yep
[22:01:50] <furrywolf> what is your actual measured line voltage?
[22:01:51] <zeeshan|2> i can make a video of it :P
[22:01:55] <zeeshan|2> 120.7VAC
[22:02:07] <furrywolf> ok, so not abnormal there.
[22:03:01] <furrywolf> power to the drive only runs through the single contactor, right? there's no main contactor that also opens on e-stop?
[22:04:12] <zeeshan|2> for some reason my brain had a fart reading your q
[22:04:12] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:04:36] <zeeshan|2> yea e-stop is its own loop that opens contactors
[22:04:39] <zeeshan|2> there is no main contactor
[22:04:41] <Tom_itx> i wonder how much voltage from the DAC it takes to start the spindle
[22:04:43] <zeeshan|2> there is a main disconnect switch
[22:05:15] <Tom_itx> with a S50 i get .164v out
[22:05:25] <Tom_itx> with an S5000 i get 10v now
[22:05:38] <Tom_itx> the range is pretty close to what i want now i think
[22:05:47] <zeeshan|2> playing around w/ the scale?
[22:05:51] <Crom_> are the contactors double pole?
[22:05:54] <zeeshan|2> 3 pole
[22:05:59] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 yes
[22:06:03] <zeeshan|2> okay guys look
[22:06:04] <Tom_itx> and the pwm frequency
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[22:06:19] <zeeshan|2> i'm not an electronics guru, so i need to just back to my engineering "sense"
[22:06:32] <zeeshan|2> the X y and z drives have taken multiple e-stops and survived
[22:06:42] <zeeshan|2> for the 15-16 hours the system has been running
[22:06:43] <Tom_itx> the z motor is bigger
[22:06:57] <zeeshan|2> then eventually during an e-stop cycle, it blew the Z drive
[22:06:58] <Tom_itx> the z axis is heavier
[22:07:04] <zeeshan|2> and then replacing the drive w/ another
[22:07:09] <zeeshan|2> caused it to blow up after the first e-stop cycle
[22:07:12] <zeeshan|2> something changed somewhere
[22:07:16] <zeeshan|2> my wiring remained the same
[22:07:19] * furrywolf still suspects the motor or its wiring
[22:07:22] <zeeshan|2> to me, logically the only thing that can fuck up
[22:07:25] <zeeshan|2> is the motor
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[22:07:39] <Tom_itx> got another smaller one to test with?
[22:07:45] <zeeshan|2> no i dont unfortuantely
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[22:08:10] <Tom_itx> ok this might be close enough to apply power to the driver
[22:08:11] <zeeshan|2> i need to find a motor that outputs 7.5N*m
[22:08:45] <Tom_itx> at S20 the pulse is 1�s
[22:08:48] <Tom_itx> high time
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[22:09:20] <Deejay> gn8
[22:09:22] <zeeshan|2> where is pete!
[22:09:22] <Tom_itx> at S5000 it is .2777ms
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[22:10:03] <Tom_itx> pete and repete were sitting on a bridge, pete fell off.... who was left?
[22:10:12] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:10:37] <Tom_itx> that could go on all day ya know...
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[22:11:06] <Tom_itx> ok i'm somewhat satisfied with these results so far
[22:11:31] <zeeshan|2> did you get reversing working
[22:11:49] <Tom_itx> no, i'm working on the pwm first
[22:12:15] <Tom_itx> reverse will require some logic to my hal file and maybe a bigger relay
[22:12:55] <Tom_itx> if i reverse at S5000 i don't want those poor little blue boxes popping off the pcb
[22:13:23] <zeeshan|2> blow them in style
[22:13:25] <zeeshan|2> !
[22:14:14] <Tom_itx> take it from a master...
[22:14:29] <zeeshan|2> lol!
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[22:21:19] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, how are these relays _supposed_ to work for reverse?
[22:21:27] <Tom_itx> driving a vfd input?
[22:21:35] <Tom_itx> instead of this little thing...
[22:21:46] <zeeshan|2> what are they rated for again?
[22:21:58] <Tom_itx> 10A i think
[22:22:10] <zeeshan|2> whats your spindle motor max draw?
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[22:22:25] <zeeshan|2> they can be used in both spindle drive
[22:22:26] <zeeshan|2> and vfd apps
[22:22:33] <zeeshan|2> depending on motor specs
[22:22:43] <Tom_itx> 10A 28vdc
[22:22:49] <Tom_itx> 7A 250vac
[22:22:56] <zeeshan|2> aw
[22:23:02] <zeeshan|2> your draw is too much
[22:23:19] <Tom_itx> 10A 12vac
[22:23:31] <zeeshan|2> thats your spindle specs?
[22:23:35] <Tom_itx> i dunno what that motor draws
[22:23:37] <Tom_itx> that's the relay
[22:23:39] <zeeshan|2> how many watt
[22:23:47] <zeeshan|2> and volts
[22:23:49] <zeeshan|2> estimate
[22:23:53] <Tom_itx> lemme see if i can find it
[22:23:59] <Tom_itx> maybe 600?
[22:24:14] <zeeshan|2> yea but whats your power supply
[22:24:15] <zeeshan|2> to your drive
[22:24:18] <Tom_itx> no, it's not that ig
[22:24:19] <Tom_itx> big
[22:24:27] <Tom_itx> 120vac
[22:24:33] <zeeshan|2> hm
[22:24:38] <zeeshan|2> 120vac amps? :P
[22:24:41] <Tom_itx> it's reduced inside it
[22:24:52] <zeeshan|2> you really need to figure out your motor current draw
[22:25:13] <zeeshan|2> to see if those relays are ok
[22:25:15] <zeeshan|2> if they are
[22:25:23] <zeeshan|2> then you can use a similar circuit as my z-brake i'd think
[22:25:26] <zeeshan|2> to reverse polarity
[22:25:39] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0
[22:25:43] <zeeshan|2> instead of z-brake
[22:25:48] <zeeshan|2> replace with motor
[22:26:07] <zeeshan|2> whoops
[22:26:12] <zeeshan|2> you might need to change it around
[22:26:26] <zeeshan|2> i forget what relays it switches
[22:26:31] <zeeshan|2> on reverse
[22:26:35] <zeeshan|2> and what relays for fwd
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[22:27:11] <Tom_L> http://www.sherline.com/reverse.htm
[22:27:36] <Tom_itx> acording to that it should work
[22:28:20] <zeeshan|2> ignore my io.pdf
[22:28:24] <zeeshan|2> i was confusing your relays
[22:28:29] <zeeshan|2> you havbe relays for start/stop
[22:28:32] <zeeshan|2> one for fwd/rev
[22:28:55] <Tom_itx> yeah but they're SPDT
[22:29:04] <Tom_itx> i was gonna wire them both to fwd/rev
[22:29:16] <Tom_itx> and use them as a DPDT
[22:29:24] <zeeshan|2> i dont see why thats a problem
[22:29:30] <zeeshan|2> actually lemem think
[22:29:50] <Tom_itx> now, can i wire their board or do i need to cut a trace to the 2nd relay input
[22:29:56] <Tom_itx> and wire it myself
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[22:30:06] <Tom_itx> so they will work together
[22:30:31] <Tom_itx> i don't see why i can't run the same signal to both relays
[22:30:55] * Tom_itx grabs a hunk of 10ga wire...
[22:31:45] * zeeshan|2 doesnt see how you can do with with a spdt relay
[22:31:59] <Tom_itx> use both relays for fwd/rev
[22:32:08] <Tom_itx> one for each motor leg
[22:32:26] <Tom_itx> same as having a DPDT relay
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[22:33:33] <PCW> Tom_itx: we have 7I47S's they are just not tested yet
[22:34:07] <Crom_> DOH!!!
[22:34:19] <Tom_itx> PCW great
[22:34:24] <Crom_> the driver blow on estop right?
[22:34:45] <Tom_itx> PCW, i was playing with the freq and scale on this thing and got a decent range from it
[22:34:56] <zeeshan|2> crom on release of estop
[22:34:56] <Tom_itx> getting ready to wire the motor up to try it
[22:34:59] <zeeshan|2> or on estop
[22:35:01] <zeeshan|2> one of then :P
[22:35:03] <Crom_> are the motors turning or sitting still, is there holding current flowing through them?
[22:35:14] <zeeshan|2> sittin stilkl
[22:35:15] <PCW> OK (it _should_ be possible)
[22:35:24] <Crom_> is there holding current flowing through them?
[22:35:26] <Tom_itx> i would think so
[22:35:29] <zeeshan|2> no
[22:35:38] <zeeshan|2> cause they are in disabled state
[22:35:38] <Tom_itx> just took a bit of time to get them in the right range
[22:35:39] <zeeshan|2> (drives)
[22:36:17] <PCW> all this points to a transient primary overvoltage
[22:36:21] <Crom_> It almost seems to me there is something in the system acting like a colapsing magnetic field like in a car ignition coil
[22:36:55] <Crom_> which is transfered into another winding making the motor act like a big coil
[22:37:02] <Crom_> big ignition coil
[22:37:16] <Crom_> what max voltage on the system?
[22:37:22] <zeeshan|2> 125ac
[22:37:23] <PCW> no motor current PWM off = minimal load = susceptible to sneak paths on primary
[22:37:46] <zeeshan|2> by sneak paths you mean
[22:37:51] <zeeshan|2> suspectible to overvoltage damage
[22:37:58] <zeeshan|2> ?
[22:38:07] <Crom_> put Metal Oxide Varisters between each motor lead ala surge suppressor at a 200v or 300v rating
[22:38:31] <furrywolf> does the brake engage/disengage during the e-stop or un-e-stop process?
[22:38:37] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yes
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[22:38:44] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, i can use both relays... just tested it and i have a SSR i can use for enable
[22:38:48] <zeeshan|2> theres like at most 0.001" movement
[22:38:54] <PCW> somehow you are getting more than 120V on the primary maybe only when switching
[22:38:55] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: nice!
[22:38:55] <Tom_itx> or use the inhibit on the drive
[22:39:18] <furrywolf> could the motor be designed in some funky fashion that is coupling the brake magnetic field to the motor coils?
[22:39:20] <Tom_itx> i now need to get the logic for the inhibit on the driver working
[22:39:38] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: that is an interesting question
[22:39:42] <zeeshan|2> when the brake is powered
[22:39:50] <zeeshan|2> the pulley of the motor can have metal stuck to it
[22:40:00] <zeeshan|2> when it's disengaged, the magnestism goes away
[22:40:20] <zeeshan|2> can it be inducing a voltage to the motor winding?
[22:40:24] <zeeshan|2> i'd thinkso.
[22:40:30] <Tom_itx> motion.spindle.forward -> or-gate motion.spindle.reverse -> or-gate ---> one shot ---> drive-inhibit
[22:40:36] <Crom_> Dude MOV's!!!! before anything else put in MOV's between everything to everything
[22:40:49] <furrywolf> connect a random LED to the motor wires (at the drive) and cycle the brake a few times.
[22:41:09] <Tom_itx> now i need a relay for the inhibit.. or a MOSFET
[22:41:25] * Tom_itx has some Hamlin 101 relays for that
[22:41:32] <Crom_> I'd use a mov 100v high than your limited voltage which I think was 195v, so try some 300v MOV's
[22:41:33] <zeeshan|2> PCW: more than 120v during switching
[22:41:35] <PCW> the drive should be fine with up to 170V at the drive terminals when disabled
[22:41:42] <zeeshan|2> wouldnt that show up as a light bulb getting brighter
[22:42:02] <furrywolf> light bulbs are, unfortunately, very slow.
[22:42:11] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:42:20] <zeeshan|2> so really ineed to probe w/ a scope
[22:42:23] <PCW> maybe but depends on the other loads
[22:42:33] <zeeshan|2> okay fuck it
[22:42:35] <zeeshan|2> im gonna take a risk
[22:42:39] <zeeshan|2> im gonna move eveything to l1.
[22:42:42] <zeeshan|2> and e-stop
[22:42:52] <furrywolf> that's just going to fry another driver...
[22:42:55] <zeeshan|2> lol
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[22:43:20] <zeeshan|2> pcw suspects primary side
[22:43:24] <zeeshan|2> furry suspects motor side
[22:43:31] <furrywolf> I'm mildly intrigued by the idea that the brake is causing voltage spikes on the motor windings... not sure it actually works that way, but it's an interesting idea.
[22:43:38] <Crom_> MOV MOV MOV MOV that'll kill any transients over 300v which should save drivers
[22:43:44] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yea but its only a 24vdc coil
[22:43:49] <zeeshan|2> how much current can it possibly induce
[22:43:54] <furrywolf> do you have snubbers or anything else to keep the brake voltage from going to a zillion or so volts when it's switched off?
[22:44:00] <zeeshan|2> no.
[22:44:01] <Crom_> car coild is 12v to 20000v
[22:44:24] <Crom_> does brake have clamping diode?
[22:44:28] <zeeshan|2> no
[22:44:41] <zeeshan|2> but remember,during the e-stop state
[22:44:45] <zeeshan|2> the brake was enabled before and after
[22:44:47] <zeeshan|2> it wasn't switched
[22:44:53] <PCW> Umm you _need_ a snubber across the relay contacts that switch the brake
[22:44:53] <furrywolf> put two antiparallel LEDs on the motor wires at the drive plug (no drive needed) and cycle the brake. it probably won't do anything, but I'm curious. :P
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[22:45:15] <zeeshan|2> pcw i was told they only reduce relay life
[22:45:21] <zeeshan|2> contact life
[22:45:28] <furrywolf> increase :P
[22:45:29] <PCW> false
[22:45:40] <Crom_> furrywolf, that'll work...
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[22:46:16] <zeeshan|2> i dont think the brake is whats blowing it
[22:46:19] <zeeshan|2> cause its in the same state
[22:46:22] <zeeshan|2> before and after my e-stop cycle
[22:46:35] <PCW> they improve contact life and more importantly reduce the very nasty EMI spike from the arc that forms when contact is broken
[22:46:52] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 could it be a contributing factor?
[22:46:54] <furrywolf> ah, I thought you said the brake switches with the e-stop.
[22:47:00] <Crom_> you have any mov's laying around?
[22:47:09] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: it does normally
[22:47:11] <furrywolf> > does the brake engage/disengage during the e-stop or un-e-stop process? <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yes
[22:47:13] <furrywolf> yes, you did
[22:47:18] <Crom_> old surge suppressors?
[22:47:23] <zeeshan|2> crom no i dont
[22:47:25] <zeeshan|2> i only have diodes
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[22:47:39] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: but the second drive failure
[22:47:44] <zeeshan|2> i made sure that the drive was disabled
[22:47:48] <zeeshan|2> and the brake was engaged before and after
[22:47:51] <zeeshan|2> without changing state
[22:48:13] <furrywolf> so the brake didn't cycle at any point during the test, as your e-stop opened all the solenoids?
[22:48:19] <zeeshan|2> exactly
[22:48:30] <zeeshan|2> in the first failure it did
[22:48:34] <furrywolf> hrmm
[22:48:36] <zeeshan|2> i wanted to remove it as a factor
[22:48:44] <PCW> The brake snubber is needed but likely unrelated to your problem
[22:48:56] <zeeshan|2> i will add one
[22:49:06] <zeeshan|2> a varistor.
[22:49:15] <Crom_> 1. Drivers are dying. 2. they are dead, dead as door nail. 3 transients are the number one killer of electronics. 4. MOV's are transient swatters.
[22:49:22] <PCW> Yes
[22:49:46] <zeeshan|2> it is likely
[22:49:51] <zeeshan|2> that the vfds are dumping transients back
[22:49:52] <zeeshan|2> during shut off
[22:50:01] <zeeshan|2> but its just odd that its killing stuff on l2
[22:50:03] <zeeshan|2> and not l1
[22:50:07] <furrywolf> aren't the VFDs on a different contactor contact?
[22:50:10] <PCW> The drives have MOVs already
[22:50:16] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: correct
[22:50:20] <furrywolf> and thus no longer connected to the drive as soon as the contactors start to open?
[22:50:26] <Crom_> pcw maybe not big enough
[22:50:27] <furrywolf> and thus not able to dump transients back? heh
[22:50:37] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: what if there is a chance
[22:50:42] <zeeshan|2> that one contactor opens before the other?
[22:50:42] <PCW> I would wire the drives all on L1
[22:50:45] <furrywolf> also, the way your drivers are built, I'd expect them to be fairly resistant to input transients.
[22:51:11] <furrywolf> it'd have to be a real surge, like a motor braking, not just something switching... and even then I'm not sure it'd fry it unless it was several seconds.
[22:51:14] <zeeshan|2> pcw: that was the plan
[22:51:20] <zeeshan|2> furry said stuff will still blow :-)
[22:51:27] <zeeshan|2> im definitely moving everything to l1
[22:51:33] <zeeshan|2> but if i can change something else during this final test
[22:51:34] <zeeshan|2> i'd like to
[22:51:39] <zeeshan|2> i'd like to have a nice friday evening
[22:51:41] <zeeshan|2> not a sad one :-)
[22:51:41] <PCW> then I would leave the motor unconnected
[22:51:58] <zeeshan|2> then power cycle
[22:52:00] <Crom_> also add movs across the contactos l1 to 12, l1 to nuetral, l2 to nuetral, nuetral to ground
[22:52:06] <PCW> yes
[22:52:09] <zeeshan|2> if it doesnt blow
[22:52:12] <furrywolf> rather than rewiring the power, swap power plugs with X or Y, and see if the new Z drive blows, indicating it's the motor, or the one you put the power plug in blows, indicating it's power.
[22:52:14] <zeeshan|2> connect motor and control circuit
[22:52:16] <zeeshan|2> and power cycle
[22:52:16] <zeeshan|2> if it blows
[22:52:18] <Crom_> 3 movs for 110v, 4 mov for 220v
[22:52:18] <zeeshan|2> motor is to blame
[22:52:20] <zeeshan|2> period?
[22:53:04] <furrywolf> there's no "period" when troubleshooting. strange interactions are normal.
[22:53:21] <Crom_> zeeshan|2, probable
[22:53:34] <zeeshan|2> how about i just save my drive
[22:53:39] <zeeshan|2> an order a new z servo and motor?
[22:53:41] <zeeshan|2> er
[22:53:43] <zeeshan|2> servo and drive
[22:53:47] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[22:53:54] <furrywolf> that works too... maybe. unless it's your power wiring. :P
[22:53:56] <PCW> Yeah eliminate the differences between Z and X Y
[22:54:14] <zeeshan|2> pcw to test your primary wire transient voltage
[22:54:18] <Crom_> but still add the mov's
[22:54:22] <zeeshan|2> cant i just grab a scope
[22:54:24] <zeeshan|2> and measure it
[22:54:30] <zeeshan|2> so i dont blow up another drive in the process
[22:56:00] <PCW> well not exactly because the loads are different
[22:56:49] <Crom_> I even have MOV's in my power panel coming into the house
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[22:56:57] <zeeshan|2> crom youre a mov addict
[22:56:58] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:56:58] <furrywolf> I have no MOVs.
[22:57:19] <furrywolf> well, my inverter has some built in, and I suspect many of my power strips do too...
[22:57:45] <Crom_> I used to live in Texas land of thunder storms... Before MOVs around $400 damage a year, after $0
[22:58:16] <PCW> have you checked to see if the hbridge is damaged? (power transistors shorted)
[22:58:25] <zeeshan|2> no
[22:58:30] <zeeshan|2> well kind of.
[22:58:35] <zeeshan|2> i put an ohmmeter between the terminals
[22:58:38] <zeeshan|2> of a good one and a bad one
[22:58:45] <zeeshan|2> and they're significantly different.
[22:58:54] <zeeshan|2> this is @ the mosfet
[22:59:14] <zeeshan|2> theres a monster chip
[22:59:15] <zeeshan|2> 3 of them.
[22:59:19] <zeeshan|2> with 6 pins each
[22:59:21] <Crom_> mosfets are easy to change
[22:59:28] <zeeshan|2> im assuming thats the mosfet
[22:59:43] <zeeshan|2> when i measure ohms between 2 pins
[22:59:45] <zeeshan|2> i get 0 ohms
[22:59:52] <zeeshan|2> where as in the good drive, i get like 93k ohms
[22:59:53] <Crom_> that sounds more like a hbridge mosfet
[23:00:12] <furrywolf> crom: from looking at the failures, in addition to any main power component failures, an internal switching supply failed and dumped the rectified mains onto the logic bus.
[23:00:29] <furrywolf> or the gate oxides blew and dumped mains onto the logic bus that way
[23:00:55] <furrywolf> how many internal fuses do the drives have, and how many of them blew?
[23:01:00] <zeeshan|2> only one
[23:01:00] <zeeshan|2> none.
[23:01:07] <furrywolf> yay crap designs.
[23:01:10] <zeeshan|2> dude
[23:01:12] <zeeshan|2> its such a shit design
[23:01:13] <Crom_> that's a bad PS design if main can get to logic
[23:01:20] <zeeshan|2> that when i frigging purposely hooked up that power supply
[23:01:23] <zeeshan|2> to a KNOWN shorted board
[23:01:26] <zeeshan|2> guess what blew up ?
[23:01:29] <zeeshan|2> the voltage regulator
[23:01:30] <zeeshan|2> not the fuse.
[23:01:38] <zeeshan|2> what kind of horse shit is that
[23:02:02] <PCW> The fuse is only to prevent fire in case of a massive short
[23:02:13] <zeeshan|2> a 0 ohm short
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[23:02:14] <zeeshan|2> isnt massive?
[23:02:21] <furrywolf> crom: it instantly exploded multiple filter capacitors.
[23:02:40] <PCW> no way you can protect all the little parts from possible faults
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[23:03:06] <furrywolf> 25V caps on a 12V rail, completely splattered all over the board.
[23:03:18] <PCW> a 0 ohm short in the MOSFETs woudl blow the fuse
[23:03:20] <Crom_> always put a limiting wire wound resister before the VR
[23:03:26] <zeeshan|2> PCW: it did not
[23:03:37] <zeeshan|2> unless im merasuring it on the wrong terminals of the mosfet
[23:03:50] <PCW> then the MOSFETs are not shorted
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[23:04:24] <Crom_> heh diaelectric cap in copper pine then run 220 mains across them booom cap cannon
[23:04:39] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/kUSOEYO.jpg?1
[23:04:44] <zeeshan|2> are thsoe the mosfet pins ?
[23:04:57] <zeeshan|2> you can see the screw for them too.
[23:05:15] <zeeshan|2> i measured q5 to the pin right above q5
[23:05:18] <zeeshan|2> read 0 ohms
[23:05:22] <furrywolf> that looks like a 3-phase mosfet bridge, yes.
[23:05:57] <furrywolf> is that another tantalum capacitor with a hole blown in it?
[23:05:58] <zeeshan|2> you can see the fried cap down there
[23:05:59] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[23:06:02] <zeeshan|2> yea furry
[23:06:07] <zeeshan|2> that's the second failure pics
[23:06:12] <zeeshan|2> in the second failure
[23:06:17] <andypugh> Have you checked phase-to-case on the servo motor?
[23:06:18] <zeeshan|2> remember that big cap
[23:06:20] <zeeshan|2> that blew the f up?
[23:06:23] <zeeshan|2> that never blew up
[23:06:25] <furrywolf> andy: yes, several times
[23:06:45] <zeeshan|2> ill point this out
[23:06:46] <furrywolf> we've all been telling him that. :)
[23:06:55] <zeeshan|2> in that pic i just posted there are 2 blown caps
[23:07:11] <furrywolf> yeah, one bottom left, one top right
[23:07:22] <furrywolf> bottom middle
[23:07:22] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/h6XW6MF.jpg?1
[23:07:27] <zeeshan|2> and here is the last blown cap
[23:07:30] <zeeshan|2> that i found
[23:07:46] <furrywolf> the problem is, it's not just the caps, it's also every single IC on the board. :P
[23:07:56] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/DHNQJCv.jpg?1
[23:08:00] <zeeshan|2> the only other weird thing i saw visually
[23:08:03] <zeeshan|2> was the weird soldering
[23:08:06] <zeeshan|2> like the solder bubbled
[23:08:37] <skunksleep> http://electronicsam.com/images/Mazak/comu.JPG
[23:09:05] <PCW> Yeah +12 became +50 or so
[23:09:12] <zeeshan|2> skunksleep: did you notice a intermittent short
[23:09:15] <zeeshan|2> w a commutator like that
[23:09:18] <furrywolf> pcw: I suspect it became +180V.
[23:09:36] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:09:39] <CaptHindsight> I haven't been following the discussion but did I understand correctly that the drives worked the first time. Then the system was powered down, then powered up and at the next attempt at motion the drives start popping parts?
[23:09:41] <furrywolf> pcw: since that's what the mosfets are switching
[23:09:56] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: they worked fine yes
[23:10:03] <zeeshan|2> but they blew after releasing e-stop
[23:10:07] <zeeshan|2> in still state.
[23:10:09] <furrywolf> capt: immediate failure on powerup, like the damaging event happened on power down or while off
[23:10:29] <furrywolf> that's a pretty nasty looking commutator.
[23:11:00] <PCW> yes but something opened before it got that high
[23:11:01] <PCW> (180V would have exploded every IC)
[23:11:12] <zeeshan|2> haha
[23:11:24] <PCW> AMHIK
[23:11:38] <furrywolf> pcw: his fuse
[23:11:53] <Crom_> voltage regulator saved the fuse
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[23:12:09] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:12:20] <zeeshan|2> look you guys are the experts
[23:12:24] <zeeshan|2> in your honest opinion
[23:12:29] <zeeshan|2> do you think these drives are POORLY designed
[23:12:36] <zeeshan|2> would an equivalent say..
[23:12:42] <furrywolf> yes. I don't, however, know if that's the cause of this failure.
[23:12:43] <zeeshan|2> yaskawa or fancy allen bradley servo drive
[23:12:54] <zeeshan|2> take all the abuse you can throw at em
[23:13:04] <zeeshan|2> i mean i have 2 vfds on l2 too
[23:13:08] <zeeshan|2> and they haven't gotten owned
[23:13:21] <zeeshan|2> one of them is a 110vac drive too
[23:13:45] <skunksleep> I have had good luck with AMC drives
[23:13:57] <zeeshan|2> skunksleep: same model?
[23:14:00] <zeeshan|2> w/ built in ac power supply?
[23:14:38] <skunksleep> We have used a bunch
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[23:14:42] <PCW> I dont think they are poorly designed (there are very many working fine) I think you either have a undetected wiring fault or motor problem
[23:15:13] * furrywolf really hates companies that grind chips
[23:15:14] <skunksleep> Agreed
[23:15:14] <jdh> I probably have 20+ at work.
[23:15:20] <zeeshan|2> i just dont understand
[23:15:23] <zeeshan|2> how a bad motor
[23:15:24] <zeeshan|2> can blow up a drive
[23:15:30] <zeeshan|2> shouldnt it have fault protection
[23:15:38] <CaptHindsight> wonder how e-stop is connected
[23:16:05] <furrywolf> your drive claims to be completely indestructable, with claims about being protected from every possible internal and external fault.
[23:16:14] <zeeshan|2> exactly
[23:16:17] <furrywolf> clearly "should", "claims", and "is" are not all the same.
[23:16:25] <andypugh> Disonnecting a stepper blows up drives quite often. Maybe the motor has a momentary open-circuit problem>
[23:16:37] <PCW> a armature short or short to ground are hard to protect against
[23:16:49] <zeeshan|2> well when you detect a voltage spike
[23:16:52] <zeeshan|2> of a certain threshold
[23:16:52] <furrywolf> capt: e-stop opens a bank of contactors that kills power to everything. each device has a separate contact set.
[23:16:57] <zeeshan|2> cant you just switch something
[23:17:08] <zeeshan|2> lol furry knows my machine so well
[23:17:10] <andypugh> Maybe it shorts as it rotates?
[23:17:12] <zeeshan|2> its engraved in his head
[23:17:15] <furrywolf> andy: we tried spinning the motor very slowly and watching the resistance, with no glitches observed.
[23:17:21] <andypugh> OK.
[23:17:26] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: the second blow up happened in disabled state
[23:17:29] <zeeshan|2> motor was not spinning
[23:17:33] <furrywolf> andy: also tried powering the motor from 12v with a 12v lamp in series, and it didn't flicker dim or bright.
[23:17:35] <zeeshan|2> infact first blow up was like that too
[23:17:43] <andypugh> Right you are. I will head out and play with my fully working machine :-)
[23:17:49] <zeeshan|2> OMG
[23:17:50] <zeeshan|2> !!
[23:17:52] <CaptHindsight> so the motors can have energy while the drive loses its power when e-stop is activated
[23:17:53] <zeeshan|2> you s o b
[23:17:54] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[23:18:04] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: how
[23:18:06] <zeeshan|2> theyre at 0v
[23:18:24] <PCW> If the commutator area is full of carbon dust you might get a transient arc to ground
[23:18:51] <furrywolf> do the motors jerk slightly when the drives power up?
[23:19:06] <Crom_> I like MOV's since they help in keeping the magic smoke inside electrics
[23:19:11] <zeeshan|2> thats making me think 3 weks back
[23:19:29] <PCW> I would doubt that since the drives are not enabled
[23:19:30] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: i'd have to say no
[23:19:41] <CaptHindsight> if I had the drives on my desk I might be able to help, remote diagnosis is difficult without very clear info at every step
[23:19:49] * LeelooMinai peeks to see if zeeshan is up to 4
[23:19:52] <PCW> no PWM untill enabled
[23:20:04] <zeeshan|2> so far the only thing that makes logical sense is
[23:20:05] <zeeshan|2> bad motor
[23:20:10] <furrywolf> capt: the drives are ugly construction, and EVERY active component has the power number ground off, even things like transistors and optos.
[23:20:11] <zeeshan|2> and overvoltage at mains
[23:20:29] <furrywolf> s/power numbers/part numbers
[23:20:40] <CaptHindsight> yes, saw that pic
[23:20:50] <zeeshan|2> PCW: do you suggest i take the motor apart
[23:20:50] -!- anarchos2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[23:20:54] <zeeshan|2> and check the commutator?
[23:21:09] -!- anarchos2 [anarchos2!~mike@S010600259ce59399.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:21:17] <furrywolf> a complete cleaning and regreasing is always a good thing.
[23:21:32] <PCW> yes
[23:21:34] <PCW> and buy more scratch monkeys
[23:21:49] <andypugh> They may be tryng to avoid cheap clones being made in China, rather than trying to keep you from repairing.
[23:22:06] <furrywolf> but unless the drives glitch on powerup, I really don't see how a commutator problem would cause issues only during power cycling with the motor off...
[23:22:28] <furrywolf> andy: oh, I'm sure that's one of the reasons. I'm also sure the chinese know how to x-ray and deencapsulate chips.
[23:22:34] <CaptHindsight> I had a customer break a few drives and motor couplings. He swore up and down that he wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary. A few months later he fessed up to abusing the system to see what it's limits were.
[23:22:37] <LeelooMinai> That's probably the case - it's usually done so REing the design takes a bit of effort, so cloners will decide it's not worth it
[23:22:45] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: trust me
[23:22:48] <zeeshan|2> im not that person
[23:22:49] <zeeshan|2> :(
[23:23:06] <zeeshan|2> ive only done one abuse
[23:23:12] <zeeshan|2> ive purposely powered up a blown drive
[23:23:15] <zeeshan|2> to find a fault
[23:23:19] <zeeshan|2> and blown the power supply in the process
[23:23:20] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[23:23:32] * LeelooMinai renames zeeshan to DriveDestroyer
[23:23:35] <furrywolf> which part blew when you powered it up?
[23:23:40] <zeeshan|2> v reg of power supply
[23:23:59] <furrywolf> which power supply, which voltage regulator? lol
[23:24:12] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/2c8nfXd.jpg
[23:24:13] <furrywolf> or do you mean you powered it up off a small regulated supply, not off mains?
[23:24:21] <zeeshan|2> that pwoer supply
[23:24:28] <zeeshan|2> in betwen the caps
[23:24:30] <zeeshan|2> you can see 2 bolts
[23:24:33] <zeeshan|2> thats where 2 v-regs are
[23:24:39] <zeeshan|2> one of them let out the smoke
[23:25:18] <furrywolf> odd. I wouldn't expect voltage regulators there...
[23:25:26] <furrywolf> I assume no part numbers?
[23:25:30] <zeeshan|2> no it has
[23:25:31] <zeeshan|2> lemme check
[23:25:41] <CaptHindsight> where's that wiring diagram again?
[23:25:52] <furrywolf> they could be pass transistors for the shunt regulator
[23:27:11] <Crom_> looking at S1 S2 S3 on that trace... thinking that's probably a board revision
[23:27:18] <furrywolf> you're positive you're not somehow running it off 240 on e-stop? :)
[23:27:38] <furrywolf> crom: no, no, those are very important 0-ohm resistors, connecting one half of the trace to itself! :P
[23:27:39] <zeeshan|2> http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfp250.pdf
[23:27:45] <mozmck> I'm think of building an alternate liveCD based on some version of *buntu 14.04 or LinuxMint 17.1 My personal options are Xubuntu, LinuxMint Mate, Ubuntu Mate, or Lubuntu; in order of preference. Any thoughts or preferences?
[23:27:51] <zeeshan|2> nm
[23:27:53] <zeeshan|2> theyre recitifers
[23:28:01] <zeeshan|2> wtf is that big thing
[23:28:02] <zeeshan|2> with 4 pins
[23:28:06] <zeeshan|2> i thought that was the bridge rectifier
[23:28:27] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: I played with them all last summer
[23:28:28] <furrywolf> they're not rectifiers. they're power mosfets, acting as pass transistors for the shunt regulator.
[23:28:45] <furrywolf> the big 4-leg thing is the bridge rectifier
[23:29:04] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: decided on Gentoo :)
[23:29:28] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: what do you think? I think any of them are a little more user friendly that wheezy - especially with some hardware.
[23:29:30] <mozmck> oh
[23:29:36] <furrywolf> do only the single red and black wires connect the top half of the board to the bottom half?
[23:29:38] <zeeshan|2> capt: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0 ; https://www.dropbox.com/s/abmmue9j5bwostk/Master%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf?dl=0
[23:29:49] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yes
[23:29:50] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: probably not an option for me
[23:29:57] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: I have a few still installed side by side on a test machine
[23:29:58] <zeeshan|2> the voltage at those black and red wires with it disconnected from the board
[23:30:00] <zeeshan|2> was 170VDC
[23:30:11] <zeeshan|2> keyword: was
[23:30:16] <zeeshan|2> until i decided to plug it in
[23:30:19] <zeeshan|2> to a blown board :-)
[23:30:23] <furrywolf> ... then how the fuck does a failure on the main board cause a failure of the entirely separate shunt regulator on the other board?
[23:30:27] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: I've been running the iso's in VirtualBox and testing.
[23:30:31] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: I liked the Mint version based on the old Gnome 2 branch
[23:30:58] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: I run LinuxMint 17.1 with XFCE for my main machine every day.
[23:30:58] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: first time my CC fuse stopped more damage from happening
[23:31:09] <zeeshan|2> then i removed burned drive, removed the red and black wire
[23:31:11] <zeeshan|2> and powered it up
[23:31:16] <zeeshan|2> i measured 170vdc, ps was fine
[23:31:26] <zeeshan|2> then i plugged those black and red wires into a known board that was shorted
[23:31:37] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: that would be the Mate desktop, yes - that is probably the most polished.
[23:31:40] <zeeshan|2> and i fried that regulator chip
[23:31:45] <furrywolf> to damage the shunt regulator, seems you'd either need a failure on the main board that somehow drove the power bus negative while mains was disconnected, or you're severely overvolting the mains input...
[23:32:00] <furrywolf> or you blew the bridge rectifier
[23:32:12] <zeeshan|2> can i check? :)
[23:32:17] <furrywolf> any of the terminals on the bridge measure 0 ohms to each other?
[23:33:36] <furrywolf> that's probably what happened... you plugged in the shorted board and the bridge shorted, which fed ac to the shunt reg, which properly blew too.
[23:33:56] <furrywolf> promptly
[23:33:59] * furrywolf is tired
[23:34:05] <zeeshan|2> the bridge recitifer
[23:34:11] <zeeshan|2> has neutral going to 1 pin
[23:34:16] <zeeshan|2> and l1 going to another pin
[23:34:20] <furrywolf> yes
[23:34:22] <zeeshan|2> and the ohms between those two pins is:
[23:34:38] <zeeshan|2> 12 Mohm
[23:34:40] <furrywolf> slowly increasing? :P
[23:34:56] <furrywolf> measure along the four sides
[23:35:15] <furrywolf> the diodes in there are arranged in a square
[23:36:00] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: is there any chance of making a package making tool that works with Mint?
[23:36:18] <mozmck> package making tool?
[23:36:34] <zeeshan|2> tgheyre all in the 500 kohm + range
[23:36:35] <mozmck> since mint is based on ubuntu, I would think pbuilder would work?
[23:36:40] <zeeshan|2> most are in Mohm range
[23:36:47] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: the tools for building the packages for debian are very complex
[23:36:57] <mozmck> true
[23:37:05] <zeeshan|2> so i guess its ok
[23:37:06] <zeeshan|2> :P
[23:37:10] <CaptHindsight> is there any way to automate it?
[23:37:26] <CaptHindsight> or simplify the packaging
[23:37:44] <mozmck> well, you can just go into the debian directory and run ./configure
[23:37:56] <zeeshan|2> https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/GB/GBPC3504.pdf
[23:37:56] <cpresser> "dpkg-buildpackage"
[23:38:08] <mozmck> then go back out and run fakeroot debain/rules binary and it will build the .debs
[23:38:17] <mozmck> that works fine on Mint
[23:38:21] <furrywolf> hrmm, so bridge not obviously blown... so how the heck did you blow the shunt regulator? heh
[23:38:30] <zeeshan|2> lol i dont know
[23:38:33] <zeeshan|2> its blackened :)
[23:38:39] <CaptHindsight> other distros have simple tools , debian seems to make it some sort of right of passage if you can build packages
[23:39:12] <mozmck> once the debian files are setup it is a simple as fakeroot debian/rules binary.
[23:39:37] <mozmck> Setting the files up properly looks like it can be a pain though.
[23:39:44] <CaptHindsight> it's been a few months since I looked at it
[23:40:25] <zeeshan|2> nice
[23:40:26] <zeeshan|2> those fet's
[23:40:27] <mozmck> I looked at that once, and for making packages that can go in the distribution you start by reading about 150 pages of policy :)
[23:40:30] <zeeshan|2> i fried are only 2.8$
[23:40:36] <zeeshan|2> maybe i can repair this supply
[23:41:28] <furrywolf> don't bother trying.
[23:41:33] <zeeshan|2> why
[23:41:44] <furrywolf> if you overvolted the board, there's lots of damage you're not seeing.
[23:41:56] <zeeshan|2> its only got a few components on it
[23:41:57] <zeeshan|2> :)
[23:42:00] <zeeshan|2> on the power supply
[23:42:13] <furrywolf> what good does it do without the other board? heh
[23:42:15] <zeeshan|2> theres mov, bridge rectifier, caps
[23:42:17] <zeeshan|2> well
[23:42:24] <zeeshan|2> it means i can buy the cheaper be25a20 models
[23:42:26] <zeeshan|2> without the ac
[23:42:30] <zeeshan|2> and just swap the boards
[23:42:35] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: memleak works on RTAI, he'd be happy to build debs but last time he tried all he ended up with was a list of diffs in the final deb
[23:43:25] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: now he just likes to work on easier things than deb packaging like updating RTAI :)
[23:43:30] <zeeshan|2> http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8617/15837511774_a05c84d6cb_h.jpg
[23:43:32] <zeeshan|2> for your viewing pleasure
[23:43:33] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[23:43:40] <mozmck> interesting. I've built debs for RTAI before, so I can probably do it again. I'll probably ping him though.
[23:44:17] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: he tried to follow sebs method for building
[23:44:32] <mozmck> hmm, I don't know what that is.
[23:44:55] <CaptHindsight> builds kernel, RTAI and linuxcnc
[23:45:12] <mozmck> I got a debian directory for a previous RTAI, modified the control and other files and built
[23:46:09] <furrywolf> that mosfet didn't just randomly blow... I can only think that even though the bridge is measuring as ok now, it's blown.
[23:47:31] <zeeshan|2> how do you check a fet
[23:47:41] <zeeshan|2> look for .7V ?
[23:48:30] <furrywolf> fets you can only easily check if they're not shorted. functionality needs to be checked out of circuit with a little test rig.
[23:49:17] <zeeshan|2> ah
[23:51:03] <furrywolf> grrrr. I need to go kill my neighbor.
[23:51:13] <zeeshan|2> why
[23:51:32] <andypugh> It’s an American tradition?
[23:51:54] <Crom_> andy very much so
[23:51:56] <zeeshan|2> haha
[23:52:03] <zeeshan|2> can you guys recommend a fairly priced
[23:52:05] <zeeshan|2> servo w/ brake
[23:52:08] <zeeshan|2> and drive combo
[23:52:10] <andypugh> How It’s Made just announced that the US makes 10 Trillion rolls of paper towel a year. I don’t believe them.
[23:52:17] <zeeshan|2> 7.5 N*m
[23:52:21] <furrywolf> part of having solar power means scheduling large loads around sunshine. we're in the middle of a storm with lots of rain, flooding, etc. he seems to have decided to draw enough power to get the inverter fan running.
[23:53:09] <cpresser> andypugh: Trillion = 10^12?
[23:53:09] <Crom_> that's toilet paper, hand towels, scott nidustrial towels, .... probably including Canada as well
[23:53:30] <cpresser> when for 300*10^6 people, that seems much
[23:55:04] <furrywolf> that's 33,000 rolls per person per year. I think they mean billion not trillion.
[23:56:08] <furrywolf> that's a bit over 91 rolls per person per day.
[23:56:43] <furrywolf> even if you use a whole lot of toilet paper, always use paper towels and napkins, etc... that's still at least a factor of 100 off.
[23:58:13] <cpresser> 33 per person per year however sounds reasonable
[23:58:13] <CaptHindsight> paper towels are nearly non-existent in China
[23:59:01] <furrywolf> 33/person/year sounds a bit low, especially when you count industrial uses.
[23:59:57] <furrywolf> according to wikipedia, just toilet paper is "Americans use an average of 23.6 rolls per capita a year."