#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-02-03

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[00:00:09] <zeeshan|2> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128738
[00:00:11] <zeeshan|2> how is the amd v ersion?
[00:00:13] <renesis> i remember specifically looking for an older model atom, i dont remember the specifics anymore, this was like maybe 4 years ago
[00:00:16] <PCW> They are all terrible the latency test only shows the dispatch latency which is great unless you actually do something
[00:00:30] <furrywolf> some power management functions on mine are BAD, on the order of 1ms...
[00:00:52] <renesis> dunno, this was with firefox and flash playing and pdf opening and lots of glxgears
[00:01:12] <renesis> shit got slow but latency didnt go up, which is whats supposed to happen, no?
[00:01:34] <PCW> Yeah but no contentions because the latency test doesn't do anything
[00:01:46] <PetefromTn_> anyone know how to dismantle these cheapass chinese magnetic base blocks?
[00:01:47] <renesis> well then how is it useful?
[00:01:50] <renesis> =(
[00:02:21] <PCW> toggle a parallel port pin and look with a scope
[00:02:33] <renesis> anyway, i dont think micro stepping would have worked at 100us jitter?
[00:02:40] <renesis> well, its dead now
[00:02:54] <renesis> bricked, different psu, drives, ram, never came back
[00:03:05] <furrywolf> see, that's the funny thing about that... "works" is often "works 99.9% of the time, except when you're just finishing a very expensive part." :)
[00:03:30] <renesis> dunno i did PCB and shiw with it, and it cant go deep so cycles are long
[00:03:30] <PetefromTn_> I wonder if I switched the Cincinatti to a different mini ITX board if I would be able to get rid of the very occasional real time errors I get..
[00:03:36] <furrywolf> I've noticed my sherline always loses steps only on the most expensive parts, too.
[00:04:29] <unfy> murphy's such a bastard :D
[00:04:33] <renesis> anyway, i got some random pc now, its like 20usec jitter
[00:04:50] <PCW> Yes, if you have a Atom D525 D510 945GCLF etc those can barely manage a 1KHZ servo thread
[00:04:51] <renesis> i only half step now, works fine
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[00:05:20] <furrywolf> my motors are a LOT smoother at 10 usteps than half or full stepping.
[00:05:26] <PetefromTn_> what are the odds of getting one and having a real simple plug and play conversion?
[00:05:46] <furrywolf> pete: pretty good, unless you had to do manual setup of any drivers.
[00:06:14] <PCW> almost anything should work (if you want fast use a G3258 and a H81 MB)
[00:06:54] <PCW> Those work up to a 7KHZ or so servo thread
[00:07:12] <furrywolf> with half or full stepping, every step is loud and results in a very audible ringing as it oscillates (spring (magnetic) + mass = oscillation), while it's smooth at 10 usteps.
[00:07:15] <PetefromTn_> what pisses me off the most is I bought this damn board because everyone her recommended it sigh...
[00:07:32] <PCW> Dont you find it slow?
[00:07:43] <PetefromTn_> in what way?
[00:07:52] <PetefromTn_> I don't do anything with it except run the machine
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[00:08:05] <renesis> yeah i checked newegg history, was a D510
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[00:08:23] <furrywolf> I think I have my laptop set to run at 17us step thread, no noticable slowdown for multitasking.
[00:08:23] <PCW> After using the J1800 or better still the G3258, the Atom really drags at everything
[00:08:24] <renesis> so youre saying it wouldnt work? because it worked, heh
[00:09:25] <renesis> well, until it bricked
[00:09:43] <PCW> they work but they are really really slow so if you try to run something like classic ladder even a 1KHz servo thread will bomb out
[00:10:42] <renesis> this is open loop step/dir, 8000 steps/inch, does like 60ipm
[00:10:46] <PCW> they also have small caches and caching plays a large roll in latency
[00:12:56] <renesis> maybe its a problem if youre doing like 500 ipm at same scale, shrug
[00:14:20] <PCW> Its not that so much as its PetefromTn's issue (real time errors on the servo thread even at just 1 KHz)
[00:15:08] <renesis> yeah not something that happens on my machine thing
[00:15:35] <renesis> so if ~10us is actually 100us in operation, how do you do a test to get the 100us to happen?
[00:15:46] <renesis> just watch halscope while cycling?
[00:16:31] <PetefromTn_> Freakin' great...
[00:16:47] <renesis> heh, halscope have a phosphor or eye diagram mode?
[00:17:00] <PetefromTn_> not like I don't have other things I gotta do to the damn machine now I gotta replace the board too...
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[00:17:20] <PCW> Take a look at the jitter in some functions (all functions have a time parameter) note that it is in CPU cycles
[00:17:40] <PCW> you have TMAX
[00:18:20] <PetefromTn_> why man it is obvious if I am getting real time errors there is something wrong anyway right?
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[00:18:44] <furrywolf> anyone want a box of 18v and 9.6v bosch cordless tools? about to craigslist them.
[00:18:50] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Replace what?
[00:18:57] <PCW> PetefromTn_ if the occasional real time error dont bother you, they are not a real issue
[00:18:58] <PetefromTn_> main board
[00:19:03] <Connor> Why?
[00:19:16] <PetefromTn_> yeah but we are going to be moving to a toolchanger control here soon
[00:19:21] <renesis> slow system is slow
[00:19:25] <PetefromTn_> and you said things like classicladder will fudge it
[00:19:28] <zeeshan|2> i get some realtime errors
[00:19:32] <zeeshan|2> when i first start up linuxcnc
[00:19:34] <zeeshan|2> and press machine power
[00:19:38] <zeeshan|2> i clear them and everything is fine
[00:19:40] <zeeshan|2> what sup wit hthat :)
[00:19:41] <PetefromTn_> yeah I get that too...
[00:19:46] <zeeshan|2> i figured it was normal |:P
[00:19:51] <renesis> i think it says itll only pop up the message once?
[00:19:56] <Connor> That's the ONLY time I ever get Real Time errors.
[00:20:00] <Connor> renesis: No, It's not.
[00:20:07] <PCW> startup errors may be a caching thing
[00:20:12] <zeeshan|2> caching in what
[00:20:14] <zeeshan|2> cpu?
[00:20:21] <PCW> yes
[00:20:24] <renesis> then yeah, same, every once in awhile ill get those on startup, but not often
[00:20:29] <Tom_itx> or the state of something is such that it can't execute until it's out of estop?
[00:20:37] <furrywolf> it's not a startup error... it's a continous error, but it only tells you once.
[00:20:37] <Tom_itx> or homed?
[00:20:55] <furrywolf> after it shows the message once, it disables it, so you don't get one every few us.
[00:20:58] <renesis> furrywolf: right i think it says that in the error popup
[00:21:20] <zeeshan|2> well it goes away after tstart up
[00:21:26] <zeeshan|2> so i didnt reeally bring it up.
[00:21:33] <zeeshan|2> but glad to see others getting em too :P
[00:21:45] <PCW> Yes it is a startup error (and probably caching related)
[00:21:45] <renesis> i dont get it every time
[00:21:48] <Tom_itx> i usually get none
[00:21:51] <Connor> I've had RT errors when I had the base thread too low..
[00:22:09] <Tom_itx> i think i get some if i try to do something on the pendant before it's out of estop
[00:22:10] <PetefromTn_> I usually get them around startup and then every once in awhile one will pop up usually if the machine has sat idle for a few hours...
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[00:22:16] <Connor> Only other time I've had RT errors is when I was using my USB WiFi
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[00:22:25] <zeeshan|2> J1900 will fix this? :)
[00:22:27] <Tom_itx> but mine arent RT errors
[00:22:40] <Tom_itx> yeah throw new hardware at it..
[00:22:43] <Connor> Or, as PetefromTn_ just said, if it's sets for a very long time.. which probably is some sort of power management issue.
[00:22:49] <zeeshan|2> new hardware fixes all!
[00:22:56] <zeeshan|2> if pcw is running j1800
[00:22:59] <zeeshan|2> j1900 should work!
[00:23:33] <Connor> and PetefromTn_ remeber, these boards they're talking about, wasn't around when you got your main board...
[00:23:38] <PCW> These are startup errors, not related to the error reporting
[00:23:44] <PetefromTn_> well if it does fix it and I don't have to worry about the toolchanger operation screwing up it is worth it but shit
[00:24:12] <PCW> its easy to verify this by looking at the tmax numbers of the functions
[00:24:17] <Connor> I don't think the toolchanger stuff will impact it at all.
[00:24:24] <PetefromTn_> It is hard enough for me to get the cash together for all of this stuff let alone having to buy shit twice...
[00:24:33] <PCW> classics ladder does
[00:24:43] <Connor> PCW Not using Classic ladder..
[00:24:52] <Connor> I wrote it all using remap and O code
[00:25:39] <PCW> if its all userland code it should have little effect
[00:26:12] <Connor> As far as I know it is..
[00:26:13] <PCW> Jut my experience that at 1KHZ, Atom D510s,D525s etc are close to the edge
[00:27:37] <Connor> PetefromTn_: As soon as my house is put back together and all.. we'll hook up to get stuff going again.
[00:28:12] <PetefromTn_> Connor Yeah man I know don't worry about my shite take care of your house and wife...
[00:28:14] <Connor> I've been sick since Friday.. started off as a soar throat, followed by a bit of congestion and cough.
[00:28:30] <Connor> and a bit of a wheeze too.
[00:28:40] <Connor> no fever though..
[00:30:31] <Connor> My Kitchen cabinets came in Saturday at 8am. They're sitting in my Carport.. Not able to do anything with them yet because of being sick... Still need to remove the old wall board and wall cabinets and put up new stuff...
[00:30:32] <Connor> ugg.
[00:30:42] <zeeshan|2> out of the RV yet?
[00:30:46] <Connor> Yes.
[00:30:48] <Connor> But, no kitchen.
[00:30:51] <zeeshan|2> did you miss your toilet?
[00:31:09] <PetefromTn_> LOL I would come by and help you but I sure as hell don't need to get sick
[00:31:18] <Connor> Oh yea. the damn squaty potty in the RV is for the birds.
[00:31:21] <zeeshan|2> the first thing i miss when im out away from a long ass time
[00:31:24] <zeeshan|2> is my toilet
[00:31:25] <zeeshan|2> and then my bed
[00:31:29] <zeeshan|2> :)
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[00:31:43] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I hear that. I'll let you know when it's all clear.
[00:31:49] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 Jeez man that is more information than we needed LOL
[00:31:53] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[00:32:28] * furrywolf needs a house and a wife
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[00:33:03] <Connor> furrywolf: Sometimes they're not all that they're cracked up to be.
[00:33:14] <Connor> just spent $30k on fixing my house...
[00:33:14] <_methods> be careful what you wish for
[00:36:04] <furrywolf> that suggests your house is of substantially higher quality than what I'd be happy with. heh.
[00:36:09] * furrywolf isn't picky
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[00:41:17] <furrywolf> http://images.craigslist.org/00R0R_69rhktAyAAm_600x450.jpg I just posted that with "make me any offer that doesn't involve my needing to put them back in my storage unit." what mean, median, and standard deviation do you think the offers will be? :)
[00:41:40] * furrywolf is going to go with $10, $20, and $5
[00:41:45] <XXCoder> $1 + shipping
[00:42:07] <furrywolf> see, it's people like you that are why I figure the mean will be much less than the median... :P
[00:42:13] <XXCoder> lol
[00:42:33] <XXCoder> mean is mean ;)
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[00:48:38] <furrywolf> I'd be happy with $20. I just want them gone.
[00:48:44] <furrywolf> none of the batteries work
[00:49:17] <malcom2073_> Those craftsman?
[00:49:27] <furrywolf> Bosch
[00:49:36] <malcom2073_> You anywhere near York, PA? :P
[00:49:55] <furrywolf> no
[00:50:00] <furrywolf> northern california
[00:50:06] <malcom2073_> Shame, my dad has bosch stuff
[00:50:21] <renesis> what are you selling?
[00:50:44] <renesis> how much for the circular saw and how far from sac valley are you?
[00:51:00] <renesis> why the fuck do you have so many how many arms do you have
[00:51:05] <furrywolf> cheap, and I'm 5 hours northwest.
[00:51:13] <renesis> oh shit
[00:51:19] <renesis> that just sounds like an awesome drive
[00:51:27] <furrywolf> because when the batteries die, it's cheaper to get more used tools that come with batteries than to buy the batteries...
[00:51:34] <renesis> no real driving roads around here, im having canyon withdrawal
[00:51:44] <renesis> furrywolf: the saw is cordless?
[00:51:47] <furrywolf> yes
[00:51:54] <furrywolf> I do not have a battery or charger for the saw.
[00:51:56] <renesis> how long does it usually last you?
[00:52:03] <renesis> well wtf furrywolf
[00:52:17] <renesis> do you have batteries for it? and whats wrong with it
[00:52:22] <furrywolf> I bought it thinking it would work with my other tools, but it seems to take a _different_ 18v bosch battery than all the other bosch 18v batteries....
[00:52:41] <renesis> the others are li-ion or ni-cad?
[00:52:49] <furrywolf> all nicd, all toasted.
[00:52:56] <furrywolf> if you're asking these questions, you don't want them. :P
[00:53:00] <renesis> saw might be li-ion packs
[00:53:12] <furrywolf> they're old, and only useful for someone who already has the same tools and needs more.
[00:53:16] <renesis> well yeah thats the direction its going
[00:54:31] <renesis> sucks, would have been a nice drive
[00:54:52] <furrywolf> if you drive up from sac just to get the saw, you can have it free. :P
[00:55:32] <Connor> tear'm apart and remove the motors and gears and sell'm on ebay
[00:55:37] <Connor> you'll get more money.
[00:55:38] <renesis> chico, -90 min from sac, but no battery and charger itd mostly be to say hi to you
[00:55:40] <furrywolf> i5 to 20 to 101 is the quickest way, i5 to 299 is second quickest, i5 to 36 to 101 is sometimes interesting... and then there's the back roads. see, all of those are highways, and have TWO LANES.... :P
[00:55:55] <renesis> 299 is the twisty one?
[00:56:01] <furrywolf> oh, if you're in chico, you have a choice of 36 or 299 then...
[00:56:02] <renesis> or 36
[00:56:12] <furrywolf> that's a trick question, right?
[00:56:34] <furrywolf> 299 is the twisty one that's usually passable by semis, 36 is the one they always go off the inside of corners on. :P
[00:56:34] <renesis> so theyre both canyons through the cascades
[00:56:35] <renesis> nice
[00:56:39] <PetefromTn_> I used to live there..
[00:56:45] <renesis> ive driven one of them, like maybe 4 years ago
[00:56:59] <furrywolf> did you go over 55mph at any point?
[00:56:59] <PetefromTn_> was stationed in the US Coast Guard Air Station in Sacramento
[00:57:09] <renesis> no i dont think so
[00:57:12] <PetefromTn_> on Maclellan Air Force Base...
[00:57:18] <renesis> also lots of blind turns after hills
[00:57:20] <renesis> good road
[00:57:20] <furrywolf> lol
[00:57:36] <furrywolf> now, those are the freeways... just wait until you experience the roads. :P
[00:57:52] <renesis> to your place?
[00:58:05] <furrywolf> no, getting from i5 to here
[00:58:09] <renesis> i have a sportish coupe, not lowered tho
[00:58:45] <renesis> unless there are massive potholes its prob fine
[00:58:54] <furrywolf> yeah, you just ruled out about 2/3rds of the roads.
[00:59:14] <renesis> after the 36/299?
[00:59:47] <furrywolf> heh, someone I knew ripped an a-arm off their car in a pothole on one of the roads... the one that connects hyampom to burnt ranch. the potholes are about 9" deep.
[00:59:57] <PetefromTn_> we used to ride out Sportbikes up into the mountains and down Highway 49 etc... some nice roads out there.
[01:00:05] <PetefromTn_> our
[01:00:21] <renesis> well youre not supposed to put the wheeles in the hole
[01:00:47] <PetefromTn_> up in cool and in folsom area
[01:00:56] <renesis> i dunno which we took, the 36 or 299, both look likely
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[01:01:13] <furrywolf> that road also has one of the best bridges in the area. it's a railroad flatcar. at one point someone welded railings to the side, but they'd long since broken off, leaving nothing but bits of jagged angle iron sticking up every couple feet, perfectly placed to rip the sidewall out of any tire that strays near them.
[01:01:22] <renesis> i dont think we hit redding so prob the 36
[01:01:46] <renesis> why would my sidewall go near them
[01:01:58] <furrywolf> someone carefully painted signs proclaiming it to be "phlattyre bridge" and placed them on either side.
[01:01:59] <renesis> man now i want to go to see this shit
[01:02:12] <furrywolf> because it's under 8ft wide, and many vehicles are close to 8ft wide? :P
[01:02:27] <renesis> i dont think my car is, heh
[01:03:04] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/bridgesign.jpg last time I was there, someone had knocked the signs over... I can't find any pics of the bridge right now.
[01:03:07] <renesis> but yeah, 200 miles tow prob not in my budget now
[01:03:24] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/bridgeview01.jpg and that's the view from the bridge
[01:03:27] <renesis> background is gorgeous
[01:04:02] <renesis> i would do it if the saw actually worked
[01:05:47] <renesis> furrywolf: find something better to sell me so i can justify the drive
[01:06:01] <renesis> then i can at least pretend its not totally irrresponsible
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[01:06:39] <renesis> only road looks interesting around here is the one out to lassen, and it doesnt get interesting looking for 20 miles, and even then not a big deal
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[01:07:05] <XXCoder> heh I don't have to go out my home to see interesting view
[01:07:15] <XXCoder> Gonna love pudget sound, looks amazing.
[01:07:19] <renesis> theres a road to cohasset thats kind of cool, but cohasset comes too soon and after the town its just a gravel logging road
[01:07:30] <renesis> oh man <3 puget sound
[01:07:46] <renesis> out on a pier, water 15ft deep, and i could see clear jellyfish at the bottom
[01:07:50] <furrywolf> if you're in chico, the drive out to susanville is quite nice, as is the one around the lake up there
[01:07:55] <renesis> to a socal kid thats mind blowing
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[01:08:55] <renesis> furrywolf: on the 70?
[01:09:29] <furrywolf> I've only done it on the 36, not the 70. 70 runs into 36 somewhere.
[01:09:37] <furrywolf> I was coming from the coast, not from chico. heh.
[01:09:59] <renesis> 32 hits the 36, thats the road looks interesting
[01:10:49] <furrywolf> when in susanville, you can take 139 up around the lake until you hit 299, or if you want a very different change in scenerey, 395 out to reno.
[01:10:54] <renesis> like 100 miles from here to susanville
[01:10:59] <renesis> wtf is there in susanville?
[01:11:21] <furrywolf> not a lot.
[01:11:21] <furrywolf> lol
[01:11:39] <renesis> still redwoods or is it salt lakes by then?
[01:12:41] <furrywolf> some treed areas, some high desert.
[01:12:45] <renesis> sat maps says its like the edge of both
[01:13:10] <renesis> been to lassen? which is more interesting?
[01:13:13] <XXCoder> renesis: pudget sound? it's not a lake. it's inlet sea
[01:13:15] <renesis> i just want some place to drive to
[01:13:28] <XXCoder> which is basically ocean. you can boat all way to ocean proper
[01:13:30] <renesis> xxcoder: i know thats why the clarity is mind blowing
[01:13:37] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, i don't see how they get reverse from this thing
[01:13:38] <XXCoder> indeed
[01:13:41] <renesis> right but its almost freshwater from what i understand
[01:13:46] <renesis> because so many rivers
[01:14:00] <furrywolf> haven't been to lassen other than driving in the general area
[01:14:13] <XXCoder> yeah it's great place, you ever seen defence point?
[01:14:26] <renesis> is that the park?
[01:14:32] <XXCoder> yeah
[01:14:39] <renesis> we went but didnt see much
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[01:14:52] <renesis> more like we passed by it
[01:15:02] <XXCoder> too bad really. trails abound there
[01:15:13] <renesis> i had a friend who lived in tacoma, would go for a few weeks at a time
[01:15:31] <renesis> we hiked around in some other park by the sound
[01:15:50] <XXCoder> talking about parks, ever visited ape cave?
[01:16:09] <XXCoder> my suggestion, bring 2 led flashlight per person, and wear strudy boots
[01:16:16] <renesis> ha, k
[01:16:19] <renesis> and no never been
[01:16:40] <furrywolf> any good 4x4 trails where you can get a convoy of trucks stuck and rangers don't show up and complain?
[01:16:53] <XXCoder> heh once had to give my crappy led flashlight to 8 person group with dead large lamp and fading regular flashlight'
[01:17:04] <XXCoder> they was still in least .5 mile from nearest exit
[01:17:06] <renesis> how deep is the cave?
[01:17:21] <furrywolf> yeah, I always tend to be a lot more prepared than most people too...
[01:17:25] <XXCoder> hmm forgot but pretty deep
[01:17:31] <XXCoder> its lava tube
[01:17:36] <renesis> >.5mi is pretty nuts
[01:17:45] <furrywolf> if you want the historic touch, I have a pile of 1940s mining lamps. :P
[01:17:49] <XXCoder> total I think mile+?
[01:18:04] <furrywolf> 10 hours of reasonable brightness, belt battery pack with a wire to the cap lamp.
[01:18:06] <XXCoder> they was heading from lowest point to midpoint
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[01:18:13] <XXCoder> nice
[01:18:27] <renesis> oh i thought you means gas lamps
[01:18:35] <renesis> you have the original batteries?
[01:18:38] <furrywolf> 1940s, not 1840s.
[01:18:38] <furrywolf> yes.
[01:18:46] <XXCoder> it still works?
[01:19:12] <furrywolf> some do, some don't. I only have one that doesn't leak, and it has a bad cell... two cells at 12Ah, one at 3Ah. might come back with a good overcharge.
[01:19:34] <renesis> just use a modern pack?
[01:19:40] <XXCoder> probably can salvage bad batteries for working cells
[01:19:47] <furrywolf> renesis: or just use a modern light completely.
[01:19:52] <XXCoder> you could recover drill packs that way too
[01:20:04] <renesis> dunno old lamp seems kinda neat
[01:20:14] <renesis> furrywolf: what other random old shit do you have?
[01:20:27] <furrywolf> the problem is the cell construction... the cell cases are stainless, with a rubber liner. over the 70 years since they were made, the rubber liners have developed leaks.
[01:20:36] <furrywolf> I need to figure out how to mold new cell liners.
[01:20:49] <XXCoder> hmm yeah bit hard
[01:21:10] <renesis> furrywolf: you can get two part silicone and just swirl around maybe
[01:21:22] <renesis> you can make more dildos with the left over
[01:21:34] <furrywolf> I bought a box of them once that seem toasted for other reasons... I think they were exposed to acidic water. ate the nickel hydroxide.
[01:21:36] <XXCoder> dildos all way down
[01:21:53] <furrywolf> silicone isn't resistant to strong bases, and will fail. I think the originals are natural rubber.
[01:22:02] <furrywolf> electrolyte is 33% KOH in water.
[01:22:17] <XXCoder> can you even buy all rubber nowdays?
[01:22:20] <renesis> latex?
[01:22:26] <XXCoder> everything seem to be plastic where rubber used to be
[01:22:45] <furrywolf> that's another option... blow mold polypropylene.
[01:22:49] <renesis> xxcoder: buna-n, butyl, i think its expensive compared to plastic
[01:22:55] <XXCoder> it is
[01:22:59] <XXCoder> trees
[01:23:19] <furrywolf> the couple surviving cell liners I have feel like inner tube rubber, kinda
[01:23:43] <renesis> which is as vanilla as rubber gets
[01:24:07] <renesis> heh, blow molding little bottles maybe
[01:24:44] <furrywolf> I have some older lamps that used nickel plated steel cases, and those are leak-free, but I don't have enough parts to put any of them together.
[01:24:55] <renesis> http://www.ecigexpress.com/diy-e-liquid/mixing-tools-safety/e-liquid-bottles/childproof-bottles/10ml-childproof-dropper-bottle-pet.html
[01:25:06] <renesis> heat and blow
[01:25:08] <furrywolf> that is, a nickel plated steel cell inside a stainless case, instead of a rubber lined stainless cell.
[01:25:47] <renesis> or you could just get new batteries
[01:26:02] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Rubber-Durometer-Smooth-Backing/dp/B00CCGWCB0
[01:26:06] <furrywolf> I also have some newer lamps that stuck two cells in a single case... haven't managed to dismantle one far enough to see how they did it. need to make a special tool.
[01:26:32] <furrywolf> http://www.bisbeeminingandminerals.com/#!electric-cap-lamp/c50e I have all three of the ones on the left side of the top image on that page.
[01:27:01] <renesis> ha wow those are way bigger than i thought
[01:27:06] <renesis> tho guess they would be
[01:27:14] <renesis> nice connectors
[01:27:21] <XXCoder> 10 hours with ancient bulb I wonder how long with leds
[01:28:29] <furrywolf> from my measurements, they seem to be 12Ah cells. roughly 1.2V/cell, three cells. roughly 43 watt-hours.
[01:28:33] <furrywolf> probably close to 45
[01:28:34] <furrywolf> closer
[01:29:03] <renesis> nice
[01:29:14] <furrywolf> none of my spec sheets give details of the cap lamp cells, only the larger cells that were sold not as part of a light.
[01:29:34] <furrywolf> actually, I might have one that gives specs of the F-2 cells in the model P lamps, but I'm not going to dig it up to check. :P
[01:30:11] <renesis> furrywolf: how far are you from the beach
[01:30:30] <renesis> i miss the ocean
[01:30:49] <renesis> like 4 hours from here
[01:30:54] <furrywolf> the grey plastic ones have four cells... I've never done any capacity measurements. I have three of them, one I never tested, one that ran for about a half hour using the original electrolyte (!), one that reads open circuit. the last is the one I'm trying to dismantle, but it's a very low-priority project, so I've never machined the special tool it needs.
[01:31:00] <furrywolf> 15 minutes
[01:31:09] <furrywolf> maybe 20
[01:32:00] <renesis> def in the sexier section of n cali
[01:32:35] <furrywolf> bbl, work
[01:32:43] <renesis> laters
[01:32:54] <renesis> i should go do homework
[01:33:00] * renesis facedesk
[01:33:35] <XXCoder> got any dog? lol
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[01:41:18] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/y8H01ss.jpg http://i.imgur.com/aK7vSih.jpg About got my custom vacuum hold down fixture made for these parts...!! Needs a bit of deburring and I gotta tap it from the bottom for the 90 degree push lock tube fittings.
[01:41:26] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[01:43:29] <PetefromTn_> Now I gotta machine a little gauge block for the new Vacuum gauge and ball valve. Hopefully they will get here tomorrow along with the gasket materials and I can do a test run.
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[01:44:11] <XXCoder> bronze?
[01:46:00] <PetefromTn_> huh? Oh no it is 6061 aluminum my phone settings are off still from when I tried to take video of the LED Edge lit sign I made...
[01:46:14] <PetefromTn_> I had to darken it a LOT so the light did not wash out the picture
[01:46:15] <XXCoder> lol ok.
[01:50:19] <OneTimePad> PetefromTn_ what are these for?
[01:50:20] <jdh> run a chamfer pass
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[01:52:22] <PetefromTn_> These are for a part I designed for a local customer that runs a race tuning shop for the Mazda RX7 guys. I have an order for 50 right now and they said they will most certainly be ordering more when they sell out so I am going to make this nice vacuum hold down fixture so I can easily setup atop the vise for them in the future.
[01:53:58] <XXCoder> nice!!
[01:54:10] <XXCoder> hope it turns into realiable part job
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[01:55:06] <PetefromTn_> yeah I suppose I could make a champfer pass but I don't really want to mess with it. I will probably just run the fly cutter back over the whole thing lightly to clean it up and then run the deburring tool around the pocets so I can ensure the walls are all the way up for the gasket
[01:55:51] <PetefromTn_> yeah I hope so too but it is not like it's a big money maker. If they ordered a thousand maybe but that is probably not gonna happen. Still it is nice to have repeat work even if it is small stuff.
[01:56:56] <XXCoder> yeah
[01:59:43] <OneTimePad> totes
[01:59:51] <OneTimePad> those are shop-builders
[01:59:58] <OneTimePad> you in JC?
[02:00:31] <PetefromTn_> are you talking to me? I don't understand your question.
[02:00:38] <OneTimePad> yes
[02:00:45] <OneTimePad> I guess not, nevermind
[02:00:48] <PetefromTn_> what's JC?
[02:00:56] <OneTimePad> johnson city
[02:01:18] <PetefromTn_> no I am in Maryville, Tennessee...Why are you in Tn?
[02:01:42] <OneTimePad> no
[02:02:04] <OneTimePad> I just know most of the east coast thru appalachia-berks
[02:03:23] <PetefromTn_> berks?
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[02:25:50] <Tom_itx> how can i create an 'inhibit' pin between cw and ccw spindle signals?
[02:26:04] <Tom_itx> it must inhibit before switching directions
[02:26:28] <Tom_itx> otherwise a DPDT relay would work
[02:26:44] <PetefromTn_> can you just put a delay in there somehow?
[02:27:29] <Tom_itx> the control needs an inhibit so it can 'reset' and start with a rampup to avoid overvoltage etc to the control
[02:28:16] <Tom_itx> i have a tiny relay i can use for it, i just need a signal between directions
[02:30:45] <OneTimePad> Berkshire mtns
[02:48:15] <pcw_home> the delay component and some gating (and2 maybe) is probably appropriate
[02:49:40] <Tom_itx> it basically shuts down the driver while the relays flip then the direction takes effect
[02:50:30] <Tom_itx> the off time delay is settable
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[02:52:24] <pcw_home> well there are at least 2 time delay component in HAL that could be used for this (delay and oneshot)
[02:52:34] <Tom_L> http://www.galco.com/techdoc/kb/ic/kbic_im.pdf
[02:52:50] <Tom_itx> no, i don't need the delay... the control can do that
[02:52:56] <Tom_itx> i just need a trigger for it
[02:53:39] <pcw_home> well you may need a delay to determine the length of the inhibit signal
[02:54:10] <Tom_itx> i can flip the relays during the inhibit i think
[02:54:18] <Tom_itx> so it shouldn't matter too much
[02:54:38] <Tom_itx> the inhibit starts a ramp cycle on the control
[02:54:54] <Tom_itx> at least that's my understanding of it
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[02:59:25] <pcw_home> I does sound like that but it still needs some time to work
[03:00:49] <Tom_itx> yeah, i'm gonna do some testing with the board before i hook it to the driver
[03:01:23] <Tom_itx> what i was thinking was to use the driver delay to give the relays time to flip
[03:01:55] <Tom_itx> so a one shot would work if it was long enough to pulse the inhibit
[03:02:18] <Tom_itx> i tried it manually and all it needs is a short pulse
[03:03:03] <Tom_itx> i've got some little hamlin relays i can use to isolate that
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[03:04:34] <pcw_home> the oneshot comp can be rigged to trigger on both edges so maybe it could be triggered by motion.spindle-forward or some such
[03:05:22] <Tom_L> it would probably have to trigger on motion.spindle-forward and reverse
[03:05:30] <Tom_L> but reverse may not be used alot
[03:05:35] <Tom_L> just for completeness...
[03:06:02] <Tom_L> unless you were going to 'peck' a thread
[03:06:27] <furrywolf> I have no plans to add software-controlled spindle direction to my mill any time soon. too much work, and I hopefully won't need rigid tapping.
[03:06:46] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/
[03:06:56] <Tom_L> there are both the control manuals
[03:07:08] <Tom_L> apparently the link broke to one just after i downloaded it
[03:07:26] <Tom_L> pretty sure mine is the older one
[03:07:54] <Tom_L> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=58
[03:08:00] <Tom_L> interfacing the C6 board to it
[03:08:17] <pcw_home> I was thinking motion.spindle-forward would get cleared as soon as motion.spindle-reverse is set so it triggers on start of forward and reverse
[03:08:32] <Tom_L> ahh, i need to read up on those
[03:08:39] <Tom_L> or watch them in hal
[03:09:05] <pcw_home> (but also triggers on spindle off which you may not want)
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[03:09:18] <Tom_L> it wouldn't hurt anything
[03:09:26] <Tom_L> it just freewheels it
[03:09:52] <Tom_L> i'm not sure how lcnc will react to that
[03:10:00] <Tom_L> with the encoder and trying to control it
[03:12:29] <Tom_L> i think i'll get the speed control working then worry with reverse
[03:12:58] <pcw_home> Yeah one misstep at a time :-)
[03:13:17] <Tom_L> it says it want's a 25khz freq on pwm
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[03:13:45] <Tom_L> what's default on pwmgen?
[03:15:37] <Tom_L> it would be easier if this thing had dpdt relays instead of spdt
[03:16:39] <pcw_home> Hmm... dont know if there is a default
[03:17:24] <Connor> Tom_L don't use C6, use the C41, I had issues with C6
[03:17:33] <Tom_L> it was free
[03:17:37] <Tom_L> :)
[03:17:38] <Connor> Ah
[03:17:43] <Tom_L> i'll give it a try
[03:18:08] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo..
[03:18:14] <PetefromTn_> I just finished the fixture
[03:18:16] <Tom_L> what's different on the C41?
[03:18:18] <PetefromTn_> got it all deburred
[03:18:27] <PetefromTn_> and installed the vacuum lines
[03:18:34] <PetefromTn_> just to see how it would work
[03:18:48] <PetefromTn_> I scotch brited some of the material I have for the parts
[03:19:00] <PetefromTn_> and plugged in the vacuum pump
[03:19:11] <PetefromTn_> even without a freakin' gasket in the slot
[03:19:21] <PetefromTn_> the parts hold down pretty good just metal to metal
[03:19:49] <PetefromTn_> I am hoping to get the gasket materials from Mcmaster carr tomorrow
[03:19:55] <PetefromTn_> and hopefully the gauge too
[03:20:32] <PetefromTn_> I don't think I could mill with the parts held down without the gaskets but it is pretty solid surprisingly.
[03:21:17] <Tom_itx> Connor, what makes the C41 better?
[03:21:29] <PetefromTn_> I am anxious to see how it holds with the gaskets in place.
[03:30:01] <furrywolf> bah. no one on craigslist wants my tools yet.
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[03:39:08] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: nice work
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[03:41:10] <Connor> Tom_ITX Uses PWM vs funky frequency C6 uses.. Never could get it to work right
[03:41:35] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Picture of you fixture?
[03:42:15] <furrywolf> that sounds dirty. you're not getting any pics of my fixt!
[03:42:16] <Tom_itx> what pwm freq does the C41 use?
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[03:43:19] <Connor> Recommended 200Hz
[03:44:01] <furrywolf> anyone have some large ultracaps they want to sell? maxwell 2600F or similar...
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[03:45:27] <XXCoder> you mean uF?
[03:45:36] <XXCoder> because 2600F is... large.
[03:46:20] <furrywolf> no, I mean F.
[03:46:25] <XXCoder> cool
[03:47:28] <furrywolf> http://www.maxwell.com/products/ultracapacitors/threaded-weldable-cells
[03:47:42] <XXCoder> dang
[03:47:49] <XXCoder> how large is it?
[03:47:52] <XXCoder> physical size
[03:49:42] <XXCoder> 2.36" cyl
[03:49:49] <XXCoder> pretty large but nice
[03:49:52] <furrywolf> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p-1I-Gc8njk/UT907Hciv6I/AAAAAAAABZA/FI_OSQGGqlU/s1600/6+Super+Capacitor+Vs+Car+Battery+www.2600f-supercapacitor.blogspot.com.jpg that big. (random google image result)
[03:50:03] <XXCoder> furrywolf: you ever heard of graphete capactor?
[03:50:10] <furrywolf> as you said, 2600F is large. :P
[03:50:14] <XXCoder> yeah
[03:50:15] <furrywolf> graphete? no
[03:50:23] <XXCoder> its made from graphite
[03:50:36] <XXCoder> it has much larger power capactity
[03:50:53] <XXCoder> theres this guy making graphete capactors that can act as battery
[03:51:03] <XXCoder> more power. but dunno if true
[03:51:21] <XXCoder> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/122763-graphene-supercapacitors-are-20-times-as-powerful-can-be-made-with-a-dvd-burner
[03:52:14] * furrywolf treats all new energy storage claims with skepticism until they're for sale at major electronics distributors.
[03:52:20] <XXCoder> indeed
[03:52:32] <Valen> I think you may mean graphene?
[03:52:38] <Valen> which is not graphite as such
[03:52:40] <XXCoder> theres so many magic stuff that never reach market
[03:53:01] <Valen> because most of the time its the last 10% that makes it impossible
[03:53:02] <XXCoder> Valen: yes and I didn't say graphite (besides it being raw matter to make graphene
[03:53:24] <Valen> (14:50:23) XXCoder: its made from graphite
[03:53:42] <XXCoder> exactly what I meant. mde FROM graphite
[03:53:48] <XXCoder> read earlier
[03:55:39] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7E5NSFJIYU
[03:56:33] <XXCoder> Valen: kinda like alum oxide is processed into alum by electric method. we cant say alum oxide is same, but we can say alum was made from it.
[03:56:51] * furrywolf notes alum is not aluminum
[03:57:07] <XXCoder> I usually short it because I suck on spelling lol
[03:57:43] <furrywolf> no matter how you spell it, half the people will say you're spelling it wrong. :P
[03:57:53] <XXCoder> exactly that too LOL
[03:58:04] <roycroft> it's aluminium
[03:58:05] <roycroft> simple
[03:58:10] <roycroft> or Al
[03:58:15] <roycroft> if you really want to avoid controversy
[03:58:20] <XXCoder> roycroft: better!
[03:58:21] <XXCoder> Al
[03:59:19] * furrywolf notes that much of the population spells it with one i.
[03:59:39] <roycroft> if you'll be my bodyguard i can be your long lost pal
[03:59:50] <roycroft> i can call you betty, and betty if you call me you can call me Al
[04:00:04] <roycroft> much of the population are wrong
[04:00:13] <roycroft> and not just on this issue
[04:00:17] <XXCoder> this failed kickstarter auther posted how he made batteries https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shawnpwest/30-second-charging-rechargeable-battery/posts/926461
[04:00:31] <XXCoder> (it was funded but he havent ponyed up with products)
[04:00:58] <furrywolf> I predicted that was a scam when it was first posted.
[04:00:58] <roycroft> much of the population would also say much of the population is, not much of the population are
[04:01:05] <roycroft> but much of the population would still be wrong
[04:01:25] <furrywolf> I even posted the math showing how his claims were utter bullshit.
[04:01:30] <XXCoder> furrywolf: likely but did anyone try what he said is way yo do it?
[04:01:52] <roycroft> kickstarters are not about deliverables
[04:01:54] <furrywolf> ?
[04:01:57] <roycroft> they're about revenue generation
[04:02:07] <roycroft> so that sounds like a resounding success, if it was fully funded
[04:02:10] <XXCoder> did you see link?
[04:02:18] <furrywolf> why would anyone try something everyone knew wouldn't work?
[04:02:41] <furrywolf> I even identified the exact model of capacitor he uses, and posted its specs, nowhere near his claims.
[04:02:42] <XXCoder> heh there was few stuff "everyone knew wouldn't work" that worked
[04:03:16] <XXCoder> but if he does indeed use that capactor then yeah bullshit kickstarter
[04:03:55] <roycroft> furrywolf: why do poor people vote for politicians they know will only legislate for rich people?
[04:04:00] <XXCoder> oh furry what mAH is that bigass capactor 2500 farad?
[04:04:06] <roycroft> because they have a delusional dream that one day they will be rich
[04:04:23] <roycroft> that same dream causes people to fund kickstarter projects that they know are doomed to failure
[04:04:43] <roycroft> because what if some miracle happens and it actually works?
[04:04:53] <furrywolf> xxcoder: farads to mAh is not a useful conversion generally...
[04:05:12] <XXCoder> I guess it depends on some factors
[04:05:17] <furrywolf> and doing said conversion requires far more math than I'm doing right now. :)
[04:05:18] <XXCoder> like what output is needed
[04:05:29] <furrywolf> most capacitor designs need a dc-dc converter.
[04:06:00] <furrywolf> electrochemical cells tend to have a pretty narrow voltage range, while capacitor voltage drops the entire time, all the way from full voltage to 0v.
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[04:06:06] <zeeshan-mill> man
[04:06:12] <zeeshan-mill> i blew up a be25a20ac drive
[04:06:15] <zeeshan-mill> my Z axis
[04:06:19] <zeeshan-mill> all i did was e-stop
[04:06:22] <zeeshan-mill> kill power to it
[04:06:36] <zeeshan-mill> and then like 20 secs later
[04:06:39] <furrywolf> I told everyone that capacitor battery was a scam. people funded it anyway. now they don't have a product. fucking duh?
[04:06:39] <zeeshan-mill> re-energize it.
[04:06:42] <zeeshan-mill> it blew up
[04:06:45] <zeeshan-mill> asap i energized it
[04:06:50] <zeeshan-mill> i saw the shunt fuse blow
[04:06:54] <XXCoder> furrywolf: found math on one site "1.15Ah * (3600 / 26 seconds) = 159.2A"
[04:07:08] <zeeshan-mill> who said killing power is a good idea!
[04:07:11] <XXCoder> yeah its impossible to recharge 1.15 Ah in 30 seconds
[04:07:33] <XXCoder> zeeshan-mill: how does professional cnc machines stop motors?
[04:07:46] <XXCoder> I had to use estop quite a few times by now
[04:07:58] <furrywolf> how do you get your money back from kickstarter crooks, anyway? individually sue them? class action?
[04:07:59] <XXCoder> 6 times I guess, 4 of em on that car sized router table
[04:07:59] <zeeshan-mill> i think they prolly use the enable/disable pin for the drive
[04:08:01] <zeeshan-mill> not kill power to it.
[04:08:06] <zeeshan-mill> like i initially thought
[04:08:09] <XXCoder> furrywolf: nah you just dont get money back
[04:08:24] <furrywolf> my e-stop is going to kill the 5v common to the optos, which should do a good job killing everything.
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[04:08:35] <roycroft> xxcoder is correct
[04:09:01] <XXCoder> on which?
[04:09:15] <furrywolf> all the more reason not to fund people where all the comments say it's a scam and they'll never deliver.
[04:09:17] <roycroft> the kickstarter contract basically says "you give kickstarter money, kickstarter gives it to the project, keeping its cut"
[04:09:22] <roycroft> and that's all it says
[04:09:35] <roycroft> not "and we guarantee deliverables"
[04:09:50] <XXCoder> indeed
[04:10:08] <furrywolf> I'd imagine that in case of intentional misrepresentation, you have a valid small claims court action.
[04:10:28] <XXCoder> to author, not kickstarter itself I guess
[04:10:33] <furrywolf> yes
[04:10:35] <XXCoder> LOL! found http://www.instructables.com/id/Graphene-Supercapacitor-Based-Battery-Charges-In-S/
[04:10:44] <roycroft> if all the promise is to take your money, and they take your money, then they have fulfilled their obligation, and you no basis for legal action
[04:10:44] <XXCoder> insuuctable for that same scam kickstarter!
[04:11:12] <furrywolf> right. I'm not saying sue kickstarter. I'm saying sue the individual who made the false claims.
[04:11:37] <roycroft> how is that any different from the person who says "i can't afford to go to college and i want to - so give me college money"
[04:11:48] <XXCoder> the instructable is pre-graphete too
[04:12:09] <furrywolf> because the person is saying "give me money and I'll give you a product that does X".
[04:12:15] <Tom_itx> Connor, how did you wire yours for reverse?
[04:12:29] <furrywolf> when the person has no intention of giving you a product, that does x or otherwise.
[04:13:09] <roycroft> but can you prove that the person has no intention of delivering the product?
[04:13:10] <XXCoder> furrywolf: this would be perfect for once a while low wattage uses http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/need-more-juice-for-your-aa-battery-shake-shake-shake.html
[04:13:21] <XXCoder> roy thats always hard
[04:13:22] <furrywolf> roycroft: when the person makes obviously false claims, yes.
[04:13:38] <XXCoder> unless guys stupid enough to give "finger" comment that he didnt plan to or something
[04:13:42] <furrywolf> every single claim he made about his product was false.
[04:13:51] <roycroft> well you first have to prove the person's competence
[04:14:01] <XXCoder> furrywolf: you'd need engineer witness. yourself probably
[04:14:04] <Valen> graphene
[04:14:06] <roycroft> and you can prove that he's aware that the claims are false?
[04:14:12] <roycroft> the person may just be an idiot
[04:14:20] <furrywolf> also, this is the US. you can drop your new computer on your foot and sue the manufacturer for not including a pair of steel toed boots with it.
[04:14:31] <XXCoder> lol
[04:14:37] <roycroft> i did not say you cannot bring a lawsuit
[04:14:43] <roycroft> i said there may be no basis for it
[04:14:47] <roycroft> meaning it would be dismissed
[04:14:55] <roycroft> sure, anyone can sue anyone for anything in the us
[04:15:09] <furrywolf> go tell that to the court who gave a woman a million bucks for dumping a cup of coffee down her pants.
[04:15:23] <roycroft> a court did not award that
[04:15:26] <roycroft> a jury did
[04:15:53] <Valen> there were actually some extenuating circumstances in that case, if you look into it its actually a bit more involved than the headline makes out
[04:16:22] <XXCoder> furrywolf: that case was that coffee was so hour she had 3rd degree burns
[04:16:27] <XXCoder> hot
[04:16:35] <furrywolf> I think his intentionally hiding the actual construction of the product through careful camera angles, etc, would be sufficient evidence he knew it did not and could not perform as advertised, but didn't want people to figure it out.
[04:16:45] <Valen> it was like 98C or something and had a badly fitting lid
[04:17:10] <furrywolf> right, like every other coffee. coffee is made by boiling water. you should expect that it may be near boiling.
[04:17:22] <Valen> actually not so much
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[04:17:45] <Valen> go look it up, its not quite as clear cut as you like to think
[04:18:00] <XXCoder> indeed
[04:18:08] <furrywolf> I have looked it up. I know further research has shown their coffee was no hotter than anyone else's.
[04:19:22] <XXCoder> entry #6 http://www.cracked.com/article_19150_6-famous-frivolous-lawsuit-stories-that-are-total-b.s..html
[04:19:31] <furrywolf> all similar lawsuits since have been dismissed.
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[04:19:50] <XXCoder> "econdly, coffee served at that temperature (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit) will give a person third-degree burns in two to seven seconds,"
[04:20:06] <XXCoder> home coffee is 130 to 140
[04:20:08] <XXCoder> F
[04:20:15] <furrywolf> and you know this why?
[04:20:57] <furrywolf> the next line of that article is "Yes, Starbucks and other joints do serve coffee at the hotter temperatures -- because some customers prefer it "
[04:21:17] <Connor> Tom_itx: The motor, or the C41 ?
[04:21:28] <Valen> "but then again, they get sued for it also"
[04:21:54] <Connor> for the C41, I just used a output to trigger the FW/REV relay, which toggled the reverse on the speed controller.
[04:22:34] <furrywolf> when you purchase a product that's expected to be hot, expect it to be hot, and take suitable precautions. if anything, that woman should have been tossed out of court with a citation for some form of reckless driving, because she was operating a vehicle while fucking around with her coffee instead of paying attention to the road.
[04:22:57] <Valen> The relatively sensible conclusion would be, don't give the general public liquid so hot that it could require skin grafts if its spilt
[04:23:00] <roycroft> ok, i'm watching this kickstarter guy's video
[04:23:09] <roycroft> it's apparent in about 20 seconds that he's an idiot
[04:23:32] <roycroft> if you willingly give money to an idiot you can't expect any return on your investment
[04:23:37] <XXCoder> probably because you can hear. too bad for me eh lol
[04:23:49] <Valen> I mean what happens if rather than her driving badly she got shunted, and had the coffee spill, or it wound up hitting some kid in the face
[04:23:49] <XXCoder> good thing I smelled something and didnt invest
[04:23:57] <furrywolf> valen: let's not give them knives, firearms, alcohol, automobiles, etc either!
[04:24:09] <XXCoder> Valen: there's always car accients too
[04:24:16] <roycroft> "the difference is that this is a chemical battery, while mine is a capacitor"
[04:24:33] <roycroft> that's the end of the lawsuit right there
[04:24:39] <XXCoder> uhh lol
[04:25:06] <furrywolf> "let's not give the public anything they could ever possibly harm themselves with" is not a viewpoint many would support.
[04:25:39] <XXCoder> furry its like a gun that would shoot if it was hit on side
[04:25:44] <XXCoder> sure its gun and designed to shoot
[04:25:51] <XXCoder> but it's not safe
[04:26:18] <furrywolf> right, but if you hit a coffee cup on the side, you expect it to spill. it's part of the inherent nature of it, not a defect.
[04:26:20] <XXCoder> if that guns in purse and she gets hit and it goes off
[04:26:22] <Valen> its not that, its having half a clue and not giving people a liquid in an open container that can cause serious injury to the user or third parties when not doing so isn't going to impede the utility of the product in any way
[04:26:47] <furrywolf> valen: except many customers prefer their coffee hotter. thus they must see some utility to it.
[04:26:55] <Valen> serve the coffee at a drinkable temperature that won't cause 3rd degree burns unless the customer asks for it
[04:27:08] <furrywolf> what if the customer wants to take it to work then drink it?
[04:27:10] <Valen> which I'm pretty sure is what they do now
[04:27:19] <furrywolf> no, coffee is still steaming, burning hot.
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[04:27:34] * XXCoder is glad he does not drink coffee
[04:27:34] <roycroft> i challenge the premise that what mcdonald's serve is actually coffee
[04:27:46] <furrywolf> there's no reason to dumb the entire world down to make sure the stupidest people are safe.
[04:27:47] <XXCoder> coffeelike product
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[04:28:17] <Valen> if its under about 65C its probably not going to cause bad burns
[04:28:19] <roycroft> i'm kind of a coffee snob though
[04:28:34] <roycroft> 65 is an interesting temperature
[04:28:36] <XXCoder> I'm h2o fan
[04:28:45] <XXCoder> one of world's most powerful solvent
[04:28:54] <roycroft> it's ideal for converting starches to sugar when brewing
[04:28:59] <XXCoder> found in all rain, lakes, oceans, in all mammals, etc
[04:29:01] <furrywolf> coffee is hot?! in other amazing news, water is wet, and some people believe the pope is catholic!
[04:29:18] <Valen> yeah its hot
[04:29:24] <roycroft> and it just so happens that 65c is right where most people cannot hold their hand in the liquid for more than a couple seconds
[04:29:28] <furrywolf> xxcoder: did you know that dihydrogen monoxide is incredibly dangerous, and causes thousands of deaths each year?
[04:29:31] <Valen> is it 3rd degree burn hot?
[04:29:42] <XXCoder> furrywolf: it's found in all cancers
[04:30:17] <roycroft> it's 1st degree hot on prolonged exposure
[04:30:18] <Valen> by your logic builders on skyscrapers shouldn't wear harneses
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[04:30:33] <furrywolf> valen: it currently is, both at mcdonalds and other coffee establishments, and will continue to be.
[04:30:33] <Valen> or safety boots
[04:30:49] <Valen> dropping heavy things on your feet is stupid
[04:30:56] <Valen> you deserve to loose you toes
[04:31:22] <furrywolf> no, by my logic, builders on skyscrapers should know they need to wear one. if they decide not to, they'd better not sure their employers.
[04:31:37] <Valen> and when one of them falls off the building and kills me?
[04:31:48] <Valen> oooh wow my family can sue his estate
[04:31:53] <furrywolf> just like how you should know you need to take suitable precautions not to dump hot things in your lap. if you decide not to take these precautions, that's your problem.
[04:31:55] <Valen> that'll make it all better
[04:32:42] <Valen> so because some people want to work without harnesses (IE get their coffee 3rd degree burn hot) everybody else has to accept the increased risk as a result of that?
[04:32:48] <furrywolf> if they sold a defective cup that spontaneously dropped the bottom out, then she'd have a valid lawsuit.
[04:33:40] <XXCoder> furrywolf: lid wasnt secure if I recall
[04:34:29] <Valen> right you know how she was driving the car and being a bad driver
[04:34:35] <Valen> On February 27, 1992, Stella Liebeck, a 79-year-old woman from Albuquerque, New Mexico, ordered a 49-cent cup of coffee from the drive-through window of a local McDonald's restaurant located at 5001 Gibson Boulevard Southeast. Liebeck was in the passenger's seat of her grandson's 1989 Ford Probe, which did not have cup holders, and her grandson Chris parked the car so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her coffee.
[04:34:42] <Valen> is what actually happened
[04:34:52] <furrywolf> no, lid was completely secure. in fact, she was removing it when she managed to dump the cup out.
[04:35:09] <XXCoder> ah must have rememebred other case
[04:35:10] <furrywolf> there was nothing defective about the cup or coffee within.
[04:35:14] <Valen> right and your slander about her driving the car and the case should have been thrown out?
[04:35:30] <roycroft> s/coffee/hot beverage/ :)
[04:35:30] <furrywolf> no, you remembered some argument given by someone like valen trying to make it sound like she was a victim.
[04:37:46] <furrywolf> as to your comparrison with not wearing a safety harness posting a risk to other innocent people, that's akin to saying hurting yourself with your coffee will also hurt other people, which will only happen if you're doing something stupid, like driving.
[04:37:57] <Valen> or like walking
[04:38:11] <Valen> and spilling it on me
[04:38:34] <furrywolf> where I work, one of the people occasionally brings in coffee for everyone. if they served it warm instead of hot, it'd be cool instead of warm when it got to the warehouse. it's a good thing everywhere still serves it hot.
[04:38:35] <XXCoder> furrywolf: it is possible that external events can happen - like I said perviously, car accient
[04:38:59] <Valen> so ask for it hot then
[04:39:18] <Valen> oh my god the sky is falling, the person who wants the dangerous thing has to ask for it
[04:39:31] <furrywolf> and how do you propose they do that? reheat it for each customer? water down everyone else's?
[04:39:38] <furrywolf> keep two pots of coffee at different temperatures?
[04:39:50] <roycroft> i've never been convinced that the mcdonald's coffee verdict and award was correct
[04:39:59] <roycroft> not convinced that it wasn't either
[04:40:10] <Valen> roycroft: that's an argument I can get behind
[04:40:22] <roycroft> but assuming it was a bad verdict, that does not mean that there should be no consumer safety standards
[04:40:29] <roycroft> all it means is that they got it wrong that time
[04:40:30] <Valen> dismissing it out of hand without actually knowing anything about it is silly
[04:40:36] <furrywolf> let's make coffee shops do double the work because some people are too stupid to care for themselves!
[04:41:12] <Valen> I don't drink coffee, I have had it spilt on me in the past, why should I assume the risk of 3rd degree burns because of your choice of beverage?
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[04:41:29] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/JIbVGiQ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KsL8Joe.jpg Just got a simple vacuum gauge manifold built here tonight to accept the 1/8 NPT gauge I am expecting. I could not figure out a good way to attach the ball valve to it so I just used some zip ties. I need to figure out a good way to affix this to the magnetic base that is stripped out behind it now.
[04:41:42] <furrywolf> oh, there should be consumer safety standards... like I said, the cup shouldn't spontaneously fail, for example. but she dumped it on herself. she held it between her knees, yanked on the lid, and the cup got pulled with it. entirely user error, nothing to do with safety standards.
[04:42:28] <furrywolf> valen: your entire life is filled with risk because of other people's choices. let's ban driving SUVs on the same roads as cars! let's prohibit airplanes from flying over populated areas! etc.
[04:43:12] <Valen> furrywolf: if I drive a car I am voluntarily accepting the risk of sharing the road
[04:43:16] <furrywolf> other people want to have their coffee hot. this creates a negligable risk to you.
[04:43:17] <zeeshan|2> man
[04:43:19] <zeeshan|2> i can't figure this out
[04:43:21] <zeeshan|2> why this drive blew up
[04:43:27] <zeeshan|2> just after a power cycle.
[04:43:31] <XXCoder> lol http://humorhub.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/wow-your-baby-is.jpg
[04:43:37] <furrywolf> and if you sit next to someone with coffee, you're voluntarily sharing the risk they might dump it out.
[04:43:46] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: does it have some kind of fuse?
[04:43:51] <zeeshan|2> fuse is ok
[04:43:53] <zeeshan|2> it blew up some chips
[04:44:01] <zeeshan|2> it killed my main fuse
[04:44:10] <zeeshan|2> well the upstream fuse for the drive.
[04:44:15] <zeeshan|2> the internet shunt fuse is fine
[04:44:16] <Valen> so where do you draw the line?
[04:44:22] <Valen> at what point is it a failure?
[04:44:35] <PetefromTn_> is this on your mill or your lathe?
[04:44:40] <zeeshan|2> mill
[04:44:43] <Valen> so as long as the cup doesn't fall apart sitting on a desk its fine
[04:44:44] <furrywolf> there's also a risk they might mug you, or they might have a stroke, fall onto you, and knock your head into a solid object. or they might sneeze and give you ebola.
[04:44:46] <PetefromTn_> Damn that sucks man...
[04:44:51] <zeeshan|2> i have a spare drive
[04:44:54] <zeeshan|2> but i dont want that one to blow up
[04:44:59] <PetefromTn_> for sure
[04:45:47] <XXCoder> rebuildable?
[04:46:24] <furrywolf> I draw the line at what is reasonably expected. coffee is expected to be hot. cups are expected not to fail.
[04:46:44] <Valen> so when does it fail?
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[04:46:54] <zeeshan|2> http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8598/16245459030_bbef456830_o.jpg
[04:46:56] <zeeshan|2> bottom right
[04:46:58] <zeeshan|2> you can see the carnage.
[04:47:02] <furrywolf> you can wager that wasn't her first coffee either, and she probably knew exactly how hot it was.
[04:47:25] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16406891086/
[04:47:25] <roycroft> she was 79 years old
[04:47:28] <Valen> zeeshan|2: you don't know what else got taken out as well which will often suck
[04:47:34] <roycroft> at that point she may not have known much of anything about anything
[04:47:39] <zeeshan|2> valen i dont wananf ix this board
[04:47:40] <furrywolf> ouch. that image is going to take a while to load...
[04:47:41] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: ouch
[04:47:42] <zeeshan|2> i want to figure out why it happened
[04:48:01] <Valen> roycroft: he'll say it was her son's fault now ;-P
[04:48:08] <zeeshan|2> my theory is switching the mains side of a drive
[04:48:10] <zeeshan|2> is a BAD idea
[04:48:11] <zeeshan|2> like ithought!
[04:48:13] <Valen> yeah
[04:48:23] <zeeshan|2> i was told otherwise.
[04:48:25] <zeeshan|2> :/
[04:48:29] <Valen> the problem you have is the mechanical energy in the drive needs to go somewhere as a rule
[04:48:37] <zeeshan|2> EXACTLY
[04:48:48] <zeeshan|2> i think DISABLING the drive
[04:48:50] <zeeshan|2> is a much better option
[04:48:57] <furrywolf> if she's mentally incompetent, then yes, whomever was looking after her needed to take care of her. just like how parents need to supervise their children, rather than blaming the world every time they wander off and get into trouble.
[04:49:17] <furrywolf> my guess would be when you killed the power, you got a big inductive spike back from the motor.
[04:49:26] <zeeshan|2> but motor was in disabled mode.
[04:49:28] <zeeshan|2> it wasn't running
[04:49:32] <Valen> yeah, you can also kill off the motor drive side
[04:49:36] * furrywolf is still waiting for the image to load
[04:49:38] <Valen> thats what we do
[04:49:51] <XXCoder> electric engines can act as dynimo
[04:49:58] <XXCoder> wild guess, thats what happened
[04:50:05] <zeeshan|2> the thing is in the maual it says
[04:50:05] <XXCoder> it made power as it stopped
[04:50:07] <furrywolf> I haven't wired my e-stop yet, but my plan is to interrupt the common +5V to the optos, which will disable everything nicely.
[04:50:13] <zeeshan|2> not to disconnect motor wires when you're in vel feedback mode..
[04:51:51] <furrywolf> is there any damage other than that capacitor?
[04:52:09] <XXCoder> I see burnt resistors
[04:52:11] <XXCoder> I think
[04:52:18] <zeeshan|2> i see a voltage regulator
[04:52:21] <zeeshan|2> with a vaporized pin! :P
[04:52:22] <furrywolf> also, ground off chip labels? LOL
[04:52:24] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, thanks...
[04:52:30] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: for what
[04:52:32] <zeeshan|2> you got the card?
[04:52:35] <furrywolf> I'm not sure that regulator is fried, or just covered in exploded capacitor...
[04:52:35] <Tom_itx> yeah
[04:52:37] <zeeshan|2> nice!
[04:52:37] * furrywolf can't tell
[04:52:44] <XXCoder> furry yeah hard to tell
[04:53:06] <zeeshan|2> so it could have just been a cap failure?
[04:53:15] <furrywolf> oh, a different regulator.
[04:53:19] * furrywolf sees it now
[04:53:20] <XXCoder> you'll have to clean cap guts off
[04:53:28] <zeeshan|2> ok lemme see
[04:53:35] <furrywolf> probably the voltage regulator shorted, and the cap popped
[04:53:56] <furrywolf> which probably supplied high voltage to everything on that rail, with significant collateral damage...
[04:54:20] <zeeshan|2> lol i looked closely
[04:54:24] <zeeshan|2> that voltage regulator is missing a leg.
[04:54:26] <zeeshan|2> the middle one
[04:54:39] <XXCoder> ouch it probably did vapr depost of meta;l everywhere
[04:54:42] <XXCoder> vapor
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[04:54:55] <XXCoder> s/;/
[04:55:28] <zeeshan|2> well hey look at the bright side
[04:55:32] <furrywolf> the middle one is often missing by design
[04:55:33] <zeeshan|2> my up stream circuit protection worked!
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[04:55:49] <furrywolf> looks like the right leg melted too, however.
[04:55:57] <zeeshan|2> these guys go through the efofrt
[04:56:02] <zeeshan|2> of sanding off the chip manufacturer names.
[04:56:16] <furrywolf> the big tab on top is connected to the middle leg, so many designers just use that.
[04:56:27] <zeeshan|2> ah
[04:57:31] <furrywolf> my initial guess would be the regulator pass transistor shorted, which supplied full input power to the output, popping the capacitor. depending on what that regulator powers, the other damage could range from none to every expensive part.
[04:57:48] <zeeshan|2> what would cause that initial short?
[04:59:13] <furrywolf> voltage spike, in either direction. (over rated supply voltage, or below ground)
[04:59:23] <furrywolf> disconnecting inductive loads tends to produce such spikes
[04:59:38] <zeeshan|2> how would you reduce the spike?
[04:59:39] <XXCoder> furry is my wildass guess anywhere near possible?
[05:00:14] <furrywolf> which guess?
[05:00:29] <XXCoder> oh motor acting as dynimo briefly
[05:00:33] <furrywolf> I put 75V zeners across the input to each driver. I don't know if it'll save them, but it can't hurt!
[05:00:47] <furrywolf> he said the motor wasn't turning, so it'd be inductive kickback, not actual generation.
[05:00:53] <XXCoder> ok
[05:01:48] <furrywolf> if you do brake the motor, then yes, it can dump power back into the supply... part of why I have the zeners. if I have a lot of weight spinning, they might be able to charge the supply cap to above the driver's rated voltage.
[05:02:08] <zeeshan|2> when this blew up
[05:02:11] <zeeshan|2> the motor wasn't running
[05:02:14] <zeeshan|2> i literally power cycled it
[05:02:23] <zeeshan|2> on / o ff
[05:02:34] <zeeshan|2> i was working on the vfd. was trying to restart the cnc controller :)
[05:02:45] <zeeshan|2> i pressed e-stop
[05:02:49] <zeeshan|2> and then waited 20 seconds
[05:02:53] <zeeshan|2> and re-energized.
[05:02:58] <furrywolf> it could have just decided to randomly fail.
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[05:03:18] <furrywolf> but I would still advise strongly against disconnecting the power to the drives with estop. heh.
[05:03:36] <furrywolf> they should have internal protection enough not to fry like that, but...
[05:03:59] <zeeshan|2> well that's an easy fix :)
[05:04:19] <zeeshan|2> i can bypass the safety contactor.
[05:04:26] <zeeshan|2> or have it normally closed.
[05:04:41] <furrywolf> a well-designed product shouldn't catastrophically fail on input power failure. :)
[05:06:34] <zeeshan|2> well the other drives didnt fail :)
[05:07:08] <XXCoder> so far you know
[05:07:17] <zeeshan|2> ??
[05:07:20] <furrywolf> it could even have been damaged by a voltage spike from one of the other drives, if you cut power to all of them at once, while they were still connected to each other.
[05:07:24] <XXCoder> did you test em?
[05:07:29] <zeeshan|2> yea i did
[05:07:32] <XXCoder> okay
[05:07:47] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: the whole system wasn't running :)
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[05:08:10] <zeeshan|2> all motors were idling
[05:08:13] * furrywolf doesn't trust products where the manufacturer grinds off chip labels
[05:08:21] <zeeshan|2> yea!
[05:08:22] <zeeshan|2> lame! :)
[05:08:29] <zeeshan|2> but at least its cheap to replace
[05:08:33] <XXCoder> lemme check mine
[05:09:11] <furrywolf> or like my centent drives, carefully potted in aluminum oxide filled epoxy, just to make sure you can't even grind or cut it off...
[05:09:17] <XXCoder> none of tiny chips has any print and theres big heat sink so dunno whats under it
[05:09:50] <zeeshan|2> i really think a component failed
[05:09:52] <zeeshan|2> and internally shorted
[05:10:41] <furrywolf> if the part that looks like a voltage regulator is a standard 78xx part, or any of the standard 3-terminal adjustable regs, it'll current limit, not melt.
[05:10:51] <furrywolf> the exploded cap suggests input voltage made it to a low voltage rail
[05:11:16] <furrywolf> you can dead-short, say, a 7812, and it'll do absolutely nothing.
[05:12:00] <furrywolf> if that rail was a bunch of analog stuff, opamps, etc, it might just need a new regulator and cap. if it was a logic supply rail...
[05:12:10] <zeeshan|2> its analog stuff
[05:12:11] <zeeshan|2> likely.
[05:12:20] <furrywolf> with the labels ground off, I'm not going to try figuring it out.
[05:12:38] <zeeshan|2> im gonna use my spare drive
[05:12:41] <zeeshan|2> and order a replacement for the spare
[05:12:45] <zeeshan|2> if it happens again
[05:12:51] <zeeshan|2> ill know something is up :P
[05:13:12] <furrywolf> any shorted component other than the regulator would have just put the regulator into short-circuit protection mode, and it'd have sat there not working, with no melting at all.
[05:13:44] <furrywolf> since the cap popped, either it shorted internally, or was overvolted.
[05:14:04] <Connor> They really did sand off all the Identification... WTF
[05:14:21] <Connor> That's just EVIL.
[05:14:39] <XXCoder> Connor: no way to figure whats those is to copy em =
[05:15:00] <furrywolf> connor: it serves two purposes... marginally helps prevent the chinese from directly copying your design, and substantially helps make sure all repairs get sent back to you instead of being fixed by the owner or independent shops.
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[05:15:42] <Connor> Still Evil.
[05:16:06] <furrywolf> of course, said copiers are dishonest, not retarded, and are perfectly capable of dissolving the epoxy and using a microscope, or xraying the chips, or determing the function by monitoring the pins, etc.
[05:16:29] <furrywolf> determining
[05:17:21] <furrywolf> my favorite still is I bought a _chinese_ inverter with all the chip labels ground off.
[05:17:28] <XXCoder> wow so tired. f.lux seem to work very well
[05:17:48] <XXCoder> it tints montiors as night comes in so there is less blue
[05:17:55] <XXCoder> anyway night
[05:18:07] * furrywolf uses tiny white print on black, which doesn't have much blue anyway.
[05:19:19] <XXCoder> actsully white has full blue on
[05:19:34] <XXCoder> thats why normally white text here is now slightly reddish
[05:19:47] <furrywolf> 170 columns on a 13" screen. :)
[05:19:59] <XXCoder> lol ok. dual montiors here
[05:20:03] <XXCoder> forgot what size
[05:20:04] <furrywolf> yes, I know. I'm referring to the overall low portion of white on the display compared to black.
[05:20:10] <XXCoder> true
[05:20:23] <XXCoder> I would love to have oled displays like on my phone
[05:20:34] <XXCoder> when its black it really is not emitting any photons
[05:21:15] <XXCoder> dammit no
[05:21:18] <XXCoder> amoled
[05:21:24] <XXCoder> damn tired later all
[05:21:32] <furrywolf> cyas
[05:21:36] <furrywolf> getting to be bedtime here too
[05:21:47] <zeeshan|2> gnite man
[05:23:01] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
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[08:02:42] <Deejay> moin
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[08:11:19] <anarchos2> hi
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[08:29:40] <RyanS> a bf30 mill only needs 100oz torque steppers? seriously?
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[09:05:19] <witnit> for the hm2_eth cards 7i92 specifically is there an i/o only bitfile I can use for both connectors?
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[09:17:04] <Tom_itx> you can make one
[09:19:09] <witnit> yes, i was just thinking, does this mean must learn 1's and 0's?
[09:20:44] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
[09:21:38] <Tom_itx> generally i think if you're not using the alternate funciton they can be used for GPIO anyway
[09:22:04] <RyanS> I was under the impression ACME/trapezoid lead screws have too much backlash for cnc but some people have apparently used them successfully
[09:24:02] <witnit> yeah I was thinking i did something like that last time, however, this does not seem hard by looks anyhow, I could really get right down to the guts of things with that
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[09:24:50] <witnit> it seems like on the right card with a big mix of hardware writing your own bitfiles is necessary
[09:25:56] <witnit> RyanS depends on what kind of machining you are doing mostly
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[09:27:29] <witnit> if you are just making forward cuts, positioning, some antibacklash techniques and have good slides you can do alot of good work
[09:28:34] <witnit> like drilling pcb boards or positioning table under weight. sometime you can okay
[09:30:24] <witnit> but to arc from a positive move back to a negative move or cut hard materials would cause backlash and vibration in places after they worn
[09:32:04] <witnit> thats a great tutorial tom, someday soon i may have to write my own
[09:38:46] <RyanS> ok so if you want to thread milling, circular shapes and so forth, ball screws are required?
[09:39:01] <Tom_itx> there may likely already be a bitfile for GPIO only
[09:42:34] <witnit> I looked for one tom, but it was not in the zipfile, i thought maybe i should see what else i could git out there
[09:43:04] <witnit> ryan, i would say so. what kind of machine is this, what materials?
[09:46:56] <RyanS> I put a deposit down for optimum bf30v. aluminium and steel. It will be manual until I have a compelling reason to convert
[09:47:20] <witnit> if you have a big enough screw and a small enough travel area and you arent hogging alot off its not impossible, but there a ton more resistance per motor
[09:48:29] <RyanS> Although I ordered x power feed and dro, so I'm not sure if I need cnc
[09:48:43] <anarchos2> hmm, trying to setup backlash compensation, i have about 5 thou in my z axis
[09:51:32] <anarchos2> works wonders when moving 100 thou at a time, goes all wonky when moving 1 thou at a time
[09:58:30] <anarchos2> RyanS, i use my cnc'd mini mill a lot for doing dro and power feed :P
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[09:59:38] <witnit> I run thousands of turned parts, I dont have a cnc mill at all
[10:00:07] <witnit> manual has always done me fine, though many times i could have definately used a couple vmc's
[10:01:29] <RyanS> i know but i may never need cnc.... dro+ power feed only cost $800
[10:04:06] <witnit> well, if you go cnc, you get a dro and power feed anyhow.....
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[10:04:21] <witnit> and if you do it yourself... its cheap
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[10:05:44] <RyanS> eh i can sell the dro if I need cnc
[10:12:27] <witnit> I dont get backlash and I dont use a ballscrew :)
[10:12:54] <RyanS> yeah
[10:13:23] <witnit> I have a servo attached to a constant rise cam and heavy duty set of springs on a slide, so it can't backlash, no screws
[10:13:31] uwe___ is now known as uwe_
[10:14:13] <RyanS> servos more $$$
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[10:26:37] <anarchos2> well, bed time. g'night
[10:52:57] <RyanS> the lucky bastard http://btilden.com/photo_album9.html
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[11:03:39] <Bushman> ave
[11:05:55] <Bushman> Hey guys, how do you like my new "Celtic knot owl" ;] http://i.imgur.com/oNnv15vl.jpg
[11:06:35] <Bushman> machined with LinuxCNC ;>
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[11:35:09] <jthornton> neat
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[11:45:13] <GMendez> hi there
[11:47:27] <witnit> bushman thats good =D are you going to make some custom enclosures for mesa cards next!?! =D
[11:47:37] <witnit> hey GMendez morning!
[11:58:40] <Bushman> witnit: do i need one?
[11:59:04] <witnit> i do :)
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[12:46:47] <malcom2073_> c'mon, if you're using a mesa card you probably have the capability to make one yourself :P
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[12:53:06] <witnit> turning machines 6 axis robotic arm and second operation automatic drilling machines :/ no mill
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[12:57:17] <malcom2073_> Doh
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[12:59:20] <witnit> I think my next project is just going to have to be standalone servo tapping heads, small enough to fit in a davenport, but big enough to roll tap quickly.
[13:02:37] <witnit> I have this idea for using a combination tap-drill with chamfer on the shank so I can drill the part, tap the part, and chamfer the top of the hole in a single pass.
[13:04:17] <witnit> should also be an interesting use for the attachement
[13:08:04] <Tom_itx> expensive cutter to replace when it breaks
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[13:13:26] <Tom_itx> http://www.amazon.com/Dormer-High-Speed-Combined-Modified-Bottoming/dp/B004J4VU2U
[13:13:31] <Tom_itx> no chamfer on that one
[13:25:18] <_methods> http://www.komet.com/tools-navigation/tools/threading/drill-thread-mill.html
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[13:28:38] <_methods> i know you can get custom made ones though
[13:28:43] <_methods> they get expensive
[13:28:51] <_methods> http://www.secotools.com/Global/Products/Roscado/Thread-milling/Drilling-Threadmaster/
[13:29:19] <_methods> custom inserted ones
[13:29:33] <_methods> have a drill point, thread mill, and chamfer insert on top
[13:32:05] <Tom_itx> yeah, threadmill not tap
[13:32:21] <Tom_itx> what if it's not a thru hole?
[13:32:25] <_methods> yeah the seco one
[13:32:37] <_methods> oh is the komet thread mill too
[13:33:01] <Tom_itx> that's what it says
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[13:33:06] <_methods> yeah it is
[13:33:17] <Tom_itx> no matter, they're gonna cost quite a bit
[13:33:24] <_methods> yeah not cheap at all
[13:33:40] <_methods> but if it saves you tool changes it's worth it for high production
[13:34:04] <Bushman> witnit: do you have a project for the enclosure?
[13:35:27] <witnit> not an ongoing one, but i will need one for a couple 7i92 at most. oil proof, i always thought someone in here would be making them for
[13:35:30] <witnit> each card
[13:36:16] <Tom_itx> now you got yourself another project :)
[13:36:38] <witnit> yeah guys its not about the cost tho, the orders are 100,000 month and its one of those machines that if you can run the job complete you got it mader
[13:36:41] <witnit> made*
[13:37:08] <malcom2073_> I have an old generator that I'm fiddling with to turn into a whole house (one of the first things my mill will do once retrofitted, make adapter plates for that) and it occured to me... why do all the DIY generator people on youtube use car alternators? Why not use *real* AC motors?
[13:37:28] <Tom_itx> because they're cheap
[13:37:31] <malcom2073_> Like if you have a 5hp push mower engine, why not grab a 5hp AC motor?
[13:37:52] <malcom2073_> You can get 5hp motors for fairly cheap used
[13:38:01] <malcom2073_> Iguess it's a different level of cheap heh
[13:38:05] <Bushman> witnit: i mean do you have design plans for the enclosures :D
[13:38:20] <Bushman> cause i don't have such cards so i don't know who it should look like
[13:38:21] <Bushman> :P
[13:38:36] <malcom2073_> This guy bought anew lawnmower engine, bought a plasma cut plate for it to mount to, and a new (tiny) car alternator. Just seems silly
[13:39:12] <witnit> no, just a basic enclosure that matches the cards geometry according to documentation at mesa website
[13:39:14] <Bushman> i'd just bought a power generator lol
[13:39:33] <Bushman> witnit: and what would be the material?
[13:39:35] <malcom2073_> Bushman: It'd be cheaper than what some of these guys do :P
[13:39:45] <witnit> aluminum :)
[13:39:48] <Bushman> malcom2073_: hobbyst lol
[13:40:17] <malcom2073_> witnit: Can you get extruded aluminum enclosures with slots that fit the mesa boards? I know you can get them in tons of sizes
[13:40:41] <witnit> that would be a very affordable idea, 80/20 is about 20 mins from my house
[13:40:44] <malcom2073_> I use the extruded aluminum stuff for a lot of electronics enclosures
[13:41:05] <malcom2073_> Which daughterboard?
[13:41:05] <witnit> the db25 and power connectors with rj45 is very important tho
[13:41:44] <witnit> none for these machines
[13:41:56] <witnit> but open for both ports later down the road
[13:42:06] <witnit> right now im replacing some plc boxxes
[13:42:14] <malcom2073_> Hmm, the 7i77 is 4 inches wide, fairly certain that's the same size as another board I use...
[13:42:27] <malcom2073_> That's actually a good idea, I'ma do that haha
[13:42:48] <Bushman> i think i saw some hermetic DB9 and 8P8C sockets that could work
[13:43:35] <witnit> how nice would it be if you guys just made standoffs to handle every board within 00X00 dimensions and allow for more than one card for me with varying faceplateS?
[13:43:38] <witnit> =D
[13:43:41] <Bushman> i would go with extruded enclosure and CNC cut the front panels for the sockets
[13:44:47] <witnit> im sure pcw wouldnt mind pointing people toward some professional enclosures made by good people :)
[13:44:55] <witnit> =D
[13:45:18] <witnit> just make sure you leave some great artistic touches to them
[13:45:31] <witnit> penguins and such
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[13:54:15] <JT-Shop> arg trying to set up printing on Wheezy and I get to the end and get CUPS server error There was an error during the CUPS operation: 'cups-authorization-canceled'
[13:56:48] <JT-Shop> oh finally it worked... I think
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[14:02:16] <jthornton> oh I hate when I get something to work and don't know exactly how I fixed whatever the problem was
[14:02:51] <malcom2073_> My life coding.
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[14:14:57] <witnit> JT-Shop need something like this? sudo usermod -a -G lpadmin `id -un`
[14:15:33] <witnit> https://jz.bz/tar.jz/fix-debian-printing-error/
[14:15:40] <JT-Shop> witnit, what does that do?
[14:16:09] <witnit> add user to lpadmin group and allow right i assume, check out what others have done concerning lpadmin
[14:17:37] <JT-Shop> ah, but I got it to work using the System > Administration > Printers after I guessed the right things to do
[14:18:00] <JT-Shop> now to see if I can do it again down in the Beer Cave
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[15:33:38] <pcw_home> "for the hm2_eth cards 7i92 specifically is there an i/o only bitfile I can use for both connectors?"
[15:33:39] <pcw_home> _any_ bitfile can be used for I/O only
[15:53:56] <witnit> yeah, i think i ran into this exact question with the 7i90 as well and you walked me through how it work. For some reason I see step generators and I think that must go with a bitfile and not provoked in hal
[15:54:57] <witnit> It was strange though, the encoder does not show anymore in the list, but i cant make sense of whats causing three step generators to show
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[15:56:50] <micges> witnit: add num_stepgens=0
[15:57:06] <micges> to config string
[15:57:10] <witnit> ahh okay hahaha im sure thats the exact thing i did last time too
[15:57:30] <witnit> if i looked harder in the logfiles i would have found you probably telling me that same thing a couple months ago
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[16:09:28] <witnit> micges i remember now, I tried that earlier and it failed to start due to "waiting for s.axes"
[16:09:51] <witnit> and i thought i was on the wrong track and removed the line
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[16:23:17] <micges> witnit: it shouldn't be related
[16:23:58] <witnit> but when i put that line it crashes
[16:24:02] <micges> witnit: what sw and hw do you have?
[16:24:26] <witnit> 7i92 stock and 2.8
[16:24:54] <micges> what os?
[16:25:05] <witnit> debian
[16:25:25] <micges> uname -a ?
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[16:26:32] <witnit> 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-4linuxcnc
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[16:27:41] <JT-Shop> I ordered some reprap stuff from HK Monday and FedEx says it will be here tomorrow... that's fast
[16:27:51] <micges> witnit: 7i92 work stable only on rt-preempt kernel and ./configure --with-realtime=uspace
[16:29:06] <witnit> is there a current guide i should follow? the way i got this far, was very trial and error
[16:29:42] <witnit> they have a local distributor I bet jt
[16:31:20] <micges> witnit: start with docs for 2.8: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/hm2_eth.9.html
[16:34:36] <witnit> ok that part I think i got well, the part i ran into trouble was somewhere around ./configure and rt-preempt
[16:36:23] <micges> first install rt-preempt kernel and then reboot and recompile
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[16:39:27] <witnit> got it
[16:39:30] <witnit> thank you
[16:41:29] <zeeshan|2> on a servo based system with positional feedback
[16:41:42] <zeeshan|2> if a servo drive decided to fault out during g-code execution
[16:41:48] <zeeshan|2> ie z axis
[16:42:06] <zeeshan|2> i'd get a f-error fault within my threshold
[16:42:11] <zeeshan|2> to stop all movement right?
[16:42:21] <zeeshan|2> (so x and y won't keep moving according to g-code program)
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[16:57:34] <ssi> in theory it might not, but practically speaking yes
[16:58:06] <zeeshan|2> why not in theory
[16:58:44] <ssi> well if your program isn't moving Z, and somehow magically it manages to hold its position within your ferror
[16:58:51] <ssi> then you won't get an ferror fault
[16:59:04] <ssi> if you dno't have drive fault signals wired into your estop chain, then you might not get a stop condition
[16:59:20] <ssi> but the minute the program tried to move Z beyond the ferror limits, it'd fault
[16:59:22] <zeeshan|2> i really want to wire them in chain
[16:59:26] <zeeshan|2> but its beyond my skills
[16:59:26] <ssi> and if the axis sags, it'll fault
[16:59:31] <zeeshan|2> its a frigging 5v ttl signal
[16:59:35] <zeeshan|2> but my e-stop chain is 24vdc.
[16:59:40] <ssi> just bring the signals to IO pins
[16:59:43] <ssi> and wire them in via hal
[17:00:45] <zeeshan|2> and i guess for my spindle drive
[17:00:48] <zeeshan|2> i can do it over modbus
[17:00:57] <zeeshan|2> i can check for the fault bit in a loop
[17:01:10] <ssi> make the modbus driver that you wrote have a fault pin
[17:01:11] <zeeshan|2> if it is active, then i should also go in limp mode
[17:01:22] <ssi> then do with it what you wish
[17:01:38] <zeeshan|2> ssi the thing that confuses me electrically is this
[17:01:50] <zeeshan|2> i see that vfield can be whatever, if i give it 24vdc, itll deal with 24vdc i/o
[17:01:58] <zeeshan|2> for its associated bank
[17:02:04] <zeeshan|2> the confusion comes from the ground side
[17:02:11] <zeeshan|2> theres only 1 ground pin @ the field power
[17:02:28] <zeeshan|2> so would both my 5v and 24vdc grounds go to that pin?
[17:03:01] <ssi> it's better if you can keep them isolated, but if you can't then yes
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[17:04:01] * zeeshan|2 is being lazy
[17:04:05] <zeeshan|2> more wiring scares me!
[17:04:21] <zeeshan|2> i'm thinking of any one of my drive faults
[17:04:24] <zeeshan|2> and the g-code is running
[17:04:36] <zeeshan|2> ASAP that axis moves within the 0.008 error band i think ive specified
[17:04:38] <zeeshan|2> it'll fault
[17:04:42] <zeeshan|2> like youre also saying
[17:05:00] <zeeshan|2> unlike on my stepper system
[17:05:03] <zeeshan|2> it'll keep going :)
[17:05:08] <ssi> right
[17:05:21] <zeeshan|2> i think thats good enough
[17:05:30] <zeeshan|2> if its a 1/16 end mill it wont like that
[17:05:35] <zeeshan|2> =D
[17:08:02] <zeeshan|2> lol the k8070d doesnt even have a fault pin
[17:08:22] <zeeshan|2> ssi did you hear
[17:08:26] <zeeshan|2> i blew up one of my amc drives?
[17:08:30] <ssi> ha no
[17:08:36] <zeeshan|2> i power cycled it
[17:08:44] <zeeshan|2> w/ the motors or nothing else running
[17:08:48] <zeeshan|2> was trying to service something
[17:08:57] <zeeshan|2> after 20 seconds, turned it on
[17:08:58] <zeeshan|2> BAM
[17:09:03] <zeeshan|2> a bunch of shit exploded
[17:09:08] <ssi> ug
[17:09:37] <zeeshan|2> i'd say they dont like power cycling
[17:09:44] <zeeshan|2> but then why didnt my x and y drive burn out too? :)
[17:09:54] <ssi> yeah I dunno about that
[17:10:11] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16406891086/
[17:10:16] <zeeshan|2> cap exploded
[17:10:22] <zeeshan|2> looks like some voltage regulator exploded
[17:10:22] <zeeshan|2> D
[17:11:50] <malcom2073_> Looks fixable :P
[17:12:33] <zeeshan|2> the components dont have names on em
[17:12:36] <zeeshan|2> so might be hard :)
[17:12:51] <ssi> lul
[17:12:57] <zeeshan|2> i guess you could probe a working drive to see what voltage the regulator was outputting
[17:13:04] <zeeshan|2> and just put a beefier one.
[17:13:10] <zeeshan|2> the cap has numbers on it
[17:13:14] <malcom2073_> Same with the resistor, or whatver blew up further up
[17:13:27] <zeeshan|2> the resistors are marked
[17:13:47] <zeeshan|2> i'm not gonna bother :P
[17:13:56] <malcom2073_> might be a mosfet, not a vreg
[17:13:59] <ssi> you have extras dont' you
[17:14:04] <zeeshan|2> yea
[17:14:06] <zeeshan|2> 1 extra
[17:14:14] <zeeshan|2> im gonna order some more as back up of back up
[17:14:17] <malcom2073_> Heh
[17:14:26] <malcom2073_> They fairly cheap then?
[17:14:28] <zeeshan|2> i just dont wanna blow it up
[17:14:34] <zeeshan|2> malcom2073_: theyre cheap used yea
[17:14:47] <malcom2073_> That's good
[17:14:52] <zeeshan|2> the only prob is
[17:15:00] <zeeshan|2> finding the ones with the inverted inhibit option
[17:15:03] <zeeshan|2> most of them are retarded
[17:15:09] <zeeshan|2> they're active asap you give power
[17:15:19] <ssi> dude
[17:15:22] <ssi> you can change it yourself
[17:15:26] <zeeshan|2> how
[17:15:34] <ssi> look for a resistor marked J1
[17:15:37] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16245459030/
[17:15:38] <ssi> on yours it'll probably be empty
[17:15:46] <ssi> on the regular ones it's got a 0R resistor there
[17:16:11] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[17:16:12] <ssi> i see it
[17:16:13] <ssi> top middle
[17:16:24] <zeeshan|2> you haVE fast eyes
[17:16:27] <zeeshan|2> i still am looking fo rit
[17:16:27] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:16:32] <zeeshan|2> ok i see it
[17:16:38] <zeeshan|2> under the brown thing
[17:16:42] <zeeshan|2> with a white rectangle around it
[17:16:43] <zeeshan|2> its empty
[17:16:45] <ssi> yep
[17:16:51] <zeeshan|2> okay good to know!!
[17:16:52] <zeeshan|2> that helps a lot
[17:16:57] <ssi> :D
[17:17:03] <zeeshan|2> howd you figure that out
[17:17:07] <zeeshan|2> it wasn't in the damn manual
[17:17:12] <ssi> I dunno, I figured it out a long time ago
[17:17:19] <ssi> someone in here might have told me
[17:17:32] <ssi> http://www.a-m-c.com/support/glossary.html
[17:17:38] <ssi> scroll down to J1
[17:17:56] <ssi> I might have just googled amc servo drive inhibit and found that
[17:18:08] <zeeshan|2> ah
[17:18:09] <zeeshan|2> nice
[17:21:56] <zeeshan|2> need fooodddddddd
[17:23:34] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if i can take the non AC both
[17:23:42] <zeeshan|2> but be25a20
[17:23:46] <zeeshan|2> and swap the baord in there
[17:23:46] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:23:53] <ssi> yeah
[17:24:05] <ssi> the AC ones just have a simple rectifier and filter in the top
[17:24:10] <ssi> same drive otherwise
[17:24:14] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Advanced-Motion-Control-Servo-Amplifiers-BE25A20-Brushless-Drives-/221678130285?pt=LH_DefaultDomin_0&hash=item339d0bd46d
[17:24:22] <zeeshan|2> 2 of em!
[17:24:31] <ssi> I have three more drives sitting in a box unopened I believe
[17:24:38] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[17:24:44] <zeeshan|2> sell em to me!
[17:24:48] <ssi> cause I killed one, and the other was in the house when it burned
[17:24:50] <ssi> no I needs them!
[17:24:53] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:25:05] <ssi> I haven't gotten back on the VMC :/
[17:25:07] <ssi> need to
[17:25:12] <zeeshan|2> so in the last couple of months
[17:25:16] <zeeshan|2> there have been 2 amc fatalities
[17:25:23] <ssi> yea
[17:25:24] <zeeshan|2> one saw a miserable death
[17:25:27] <ssi> I caused mine tho
[17:25:33] <zeeshan|2> i dont blame you
[17:25:38] <zeeshan|2> i see how easy it is to fry it
[17:25:44] <zeeshan|2> when using those dinky ass pots.
[17:25:48] <ssi> yeah
[17:25:49] <zeeshan|2> the screw driver slips SO EASY
[17:26:07] <zeeshan|2> im really happy that they give you probe points
[17:26:10] <zeeshan|2> so you can copy your values over
[17:26:15] <zeeshan|2> so i dont have to retune my drive
[17:26:27] <zeeshan|2> especially Z
[17:26:31] <zeeshan|2> which you have to deal wit hthe brake bs
[17:27:22] <zeeshan|2> get working on your vmc again! :P
[17:27:42] <ssi> I still need to sort out the commutation bs
[17:27:48] <ssi> and I lost all my damn electronics tools :(
[17:27:52] <zeeshan|2> sell all the drives
[17:27:55] <zeeshan|2> replace em with human drives
[17:28:00] <zeeshan|2> er
[17:28:02] <zeeshan|2> sell al lteh motors
[17:28:07] <zeeshan|2> fakin fanuc
[17:28:10] <ssi> heh
[17:28:15] <ssi> I don't really want to get rid of those motors tho
[17:28:22] <zeeshan|2> theyre nice
[17:29:06] <zeeshan|2> you lost your scope?
[17:29:10] <ssi> yeah :/
[17:29:26] <ssi> and my fpga programmer, and my bench supply, reflow oven, hot air station, etc
[17:30:02] <zeeshan|2> fak
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[17:34:50] <witnit> i dont understand why these companies always wait forever to get me a print and then want the parts ready yesterday ahaha me >"Do you have a target date?" them > "We need them as soon as you can get them" every single time
[17:35:28] <witnit> oh noes ssi, what happened?
[17:35:42] <witnit> fire
[17:35:43] <ssi> oh you know, normal stuff
[17:35:44] <witnit> :(
[17:35:45] <ssi> yea
[17:35:48] <witnit> sorry about your losses
[17:35:51] <ssi> s'ok
[17:36:11] <malcom2073_> Doh, that sucks
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[17:36:19] <witnit> you got a list of things you need replaced?
[17:36:27] <ssi> not really
[17:36:32] <ssi> I've been slacking on getting an inventory done
[17:36:50] <ssi> I've been slacking on a lot of things, really
[17:37:51] <witnit> i hear you, maybe when this snow clears up we will get back to business eh?
[17:38:05] <ssi> no snow here thankfully
[17:38:30] <witnit> i get "demotivated" during this time of the year
[17:39:47] <ssi> I've been pretty motivated, but only around building the pitts
[17:41:15] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8yE-jWIgAAduWf.jpg:large
[17:41:17] <ssi> weeee
[17:42:46] <witnit> wear your helmet
[17:42:48] <witnit> =D
[17:44:08] <Bushman> guys, is there any mechanism in the software where i can quickly fit not quite parelel axis?
[17:44:33] <Bushman> umm..
[17:44:45] <Bushman> *parellel
[17:44:49] <Bushman> also...
[17:44:57] <Bushman> s/parellel/perpendicular/
[17:44:58] <Bushman> lol
[17:45:09] <Bushman> guys, is there any mechanism in the software where i can quickly fit not quite perpendicular axis?
[17:45:23] <Bushman> some sort of automatic correction?
[17:48:36] <roycroft> if you're talking about your spindle you should tram it
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[18:02:20] <FinboySlick> Bushman: I don't know if it's easy but apparently it is possible.
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[18:51:20] <witnit> bushman: Im not helpful usually, but i am curious haha are you meaning modifying > http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/motion_kinematics.html#kinematics
[18:51:32] <witnit> errr
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[18:51:37] <witnit> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/motion_kinematics.html#kinematics
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[18:57:13] <micges> Bushman: if you mean XY skew correction it's possible
[18:58:02] <micges> Bushman: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ContributedComponents#millkins_trivial_kinematics_extended_by_XY_skew_correction
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[18:59:57] <ssi> it's probably saner and easier to just make the machine square :P
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[19:05:58] <Jymmm> spherical
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[19:12:36] <witnit> double helix kinematics please
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[19:17:50] <marmite> i love my vacuum pump :D
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[19:20:17] <micges> ssi: surely it it, but sometimes it's impossible
[19:22:42] <PetefromTn_> yeah man I am kinda liking mine too ;)
[19:23:23] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately the place I ordered my damn shiny new chrome vacuum gauge screwed up and sent me some kind holley branded rubber check valve instead :O
[19:24:13] <PetefromTn_> but as usual Mcmaster Carr came thru and got me the two types of rubber gasket here today in short order and correctly stocked LOL
[19:24:29] <PetefromTn_> I also received the two E-stop buttons I ordered.
[19:25:49] <marmite> naw :D
[19:26:05] <marmite> just ordered my 6mm push connector filter and valve
[19:26:25] <marmite> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g7_OCDLq2I so ghetto :D
[19:30:25] <Jymmm> Screw ghetto, LOUD AS FUCK!!!
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[19:30:53] <marmite> yeah the pump is in a metal can :P
[19:31:13] <Jymmm> It could be in siberia, still LOUD AS HELL!!!
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[19:31:24] <marmite> i have fixed a secound pump, so i can run then on 12v insteed of 15 :P and i will make enclosure that is alot of silencing
[19:31:27] <marmite> :P
[19:31:38] <Jymmm> No it won't!
[19:32:05] <Jymmm> what pump is that?
[19:32:14] <marmite> from a car
[19:32:24] <marmite> like a volvo cruice controll pump
[19:32:24] <PetefromTn_> honestly I am quite pleased with the pump I got so far it is very quiet
[19:32:25] <Jymmm> car what?
[19:32:27] <marmite> costs med 10 usd
[19:32:48] <Jymmm> washer fluid pump?
[19:33:14] <marmite> two of them in serial and hide them in something more silent thens its good
[19:33:15] <marmite> nop
[19:33:21] <marmite> cruice controll vacuum pump
[19:33:29] <Jymmm> ah.
[19:33:39] <marmite> dirt cheap
[19:33:45] <Jymmm> Eh for $10, get a $4 pair of ear muffs =)
[19:33:50] <marmite> :P
[19:34:01] <marmite> wont be neading them when the build is complete
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[19:35:20] <witnit> I wonder if anyone made a list of key items to be used in industrial builds from items in a scrap car, servos, sensors, relays, pumps, etc
[19:35:49] <marmite> ohh that would be a good one
[19:35:56] <marmite> alot of usefull items in a car or truck
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[19:36:50] <marmite> theres gotta be huge vaccum pumps in a truck
[19:37:32] <marmite> and i have a vacuum tankt from a audi aswell
[19:37:42] <Loetmichel> good evening... today is a good day... my car garage guy called. my car is ready for TUEV (MOT)... he did 4 new tyres, new brake pads around, welded the exhaust, changed both front axle wishbone rubbers, alinged the wheels and mended the vaccum system tubes. Tuev will be tomorrow as it was already closed today. and the best thing: he charges me 605€ for all that, Including the Tuev charges...
[19:38:06] <witnit> yeah a good industrial electronics guys that was also very well familiar with car components could really shed some light on a subject, i mean for example door switches, any one of us could go to a junkyard and bring back enough switches to supply every user in here for a lifetime
[19:38:29] <witnit> fantastic
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[19:41:12] <CaptHindsight> hydraulic and electric clutches and flywheels
[19:42:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah man there is so much stuff....you could almost build a car with it ;)
[19:42:38] <CaptHindsight> dashboard instrument panel for UI
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[19:44:15] <witnit> gas pedal would do nicely on a lathe
[19:44:55] <CaptHindsight> isn't there a website with machine tools that are all made from used auto drive trains?
[19:45:08] <CaptHindsight> think they even wrote a book on it
[19:46:02] <CaptHindsight> http://opensourcemachine.org/
[19:46:23] <CaptHindsight> http://opensourcemachine.org/mm2html2/How_to_build_a_multimachine.html
[19:46:54] <CaptHindsight> slices dices mills and drills
[19:49:36] <Jymmm> but can it make a good cup of coffee?
[19:49:52] <Jymmm> priorities
[19:49:58] <witnit> how do you like your coffee?
[19:50:10] <Jymmm> tasty
[19:50:17] <witnit> no, it cant do that
[19:50:29] <CaptHindsight> "coffee maker made from auto parts" search on Google came up with mixed results
[19:50:50] <ssi> does it make a substance which almost, but not entirely, unlike coffee?
[19:51:08] <witnit> i hung my 7i92 on the wall so would not accidently spill coffee on it
[19:51:25] <CaptHindsight> indistinguishable from Starbucks
[19:51:32] <witnit> lights are easy to see too
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[19:55:24] <CaptHindsight> anyone know what they use for steam pumps in the higher end espresso makers?
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[19:56:21] <CaptHindsight> or do they just superheat the steam
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[19:57:40] <witnit> PCW: I wonder when mesa will be putting out a micro sized lightweight AIO for low electricity usage, remote robotics, solar powered and aquatic/flying realtime devices =D
[19:58:26] <CaptHindsight> sounds very makerish
[19:59:21] <PetefromTn_> Man that thing is an AMAZING piece of work....er junk LOL
[19:59:44] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: the multimachine?
[19:59:47] <Jymmm> "But, but, but, it's OPEN SOURCE !!!"
[19:59:53] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[20:00:13] <witnit> If I want a robot to fly up to a water tower and paint a michaelangelo on it.. i think its just what we need
[20:00:16] <PetefromTn_> take yer pick
[20:00:46] <PetefromTn_> we don't need no STEENKIN' flyin' robots man..
[20:00:50] <CaptHindsight> lets say you get stranded on an island with just your car. How will you ever be able to mill anything otherwise?
[20:00:58] <ssi> I love how all these maker dweebs create junk out of garbage, and explain it away with handwaviness about "humanitarianism"
[20:01:02] <Jymmm> witnit: Um, that's actually doable
[20:01:04] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[20:01:08] <witnit> i know
[20:01:11] <witnit> :)
[20:01:33] <witnit> stabilizing camera dohiccy and a quadcopter ought to get you pretty far
[20:01:58] <PetefromTn_> yeah but I doubt you will be painting any michaelangelo's with it heh
[20:02:15] <witnit> it would have high resolution
[20:02:33] <witnit> it could just fly very close and do small passes
[20:02:52] <PetefromTn_> high altitude maybe
[20:03:00] <witnit> the guys in this room could build it
[20:03:02] <witnit> no doubts
[20:03:06] <CaptHindsight> teleoperated helio-cnc-airbrush
[20:03:10] <witnit> yep
[20:03:17] <witnit> billionairs all of us
[20:03:21] <witnit> if we cared to try it
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[20:03:35] <CaptHindsight> would placing a big sticker be acceptable?
[20:03:40] <ssi> :D
[20:03:49] <PetefromTn_> yeah man I hear there is a HUGE market in drone michaelangelo's
[20:03:59] <witnit> dont crush my dreams
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[20:04:15] <CaptHindsight> it's non-profit, it's a humanitarian project
[20:04:20] <PetefromTn_> Oh I'm sorry did I piss in your cheerio's?
[20:04:26] <witnit> =D
[20:05:59] <witnit> you could do on site car detailing
[20:06:21] <CaptHindsight> Imagine if there's another tidal wave or earthquake that destroys the coasts of Indonesia ... these could fly in and place artwork on whats left
[20:06:23] <PetefromTn_> aw man no that is for babes in bikini's...
[20:06:25] <witnit> or welding way up high in usual spots
[20:08:00] <CaptHindsight> I should patent welding goggles for autonomous vehicles now
[20:08:23] <witnit> imagine a CNC quadcopter with a build on drill and hydraulic press, it could go through and replace rivets on a bridge
[20:08:38] <witnit> no people involved just set it and forget it
[20:08:56] <PetefromTn_> you really don't know much about quadcopters do ya LOL
[20:09:02] <ssi> when the first MIT quadcopter videos came out, some friends and I sat down and designed and built a quadcopter that could carry a 15 pound rifle
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[20:09:17] <ssi> I couldn't get the control loops stable on it
[20:09:21] <ssi> too much rotor inertia :(
[20:09:32] <CaptHindsight> how about a bridge made of quadcopters, it could fly to where it's needed
[20:09:38] <witnit> well what is there to know about them?
[20:09:41] <ssi> had four 600W brushless motors on it, and 14" rigid RC plane propellers
[20:09:45] <ssi> fucking thing was deadly
[20:09:58] <witnit> oooh how long was it deadly for?
[20:10:02] <PetefromTn_> like a freakin' flying cuisinart nightmare
[20:10:23] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV5HZIDCn58
[20:10:28] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a nice anti-drone drone
[20:11:55] <witnit> i am a bit scared of that
[20:12:02] <ssi> yeah, so were we
[20:12:12] <ssi> I went back and built a smaller one when it became clear that wasn't gonna work
[20:12:15] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eROXtMq4Q4
[20:12:16] <witnit> did you have to squint when you watched it?
[20:12:20] <ssi> but even that one wasn't responsive enough
[20:14:03] <witnit> Im sure if you tethered a gang of gas powered ones together you could do some interesting projects
[20:15:13] <ssi> thing is, quadrotors like that only have control via differential lift and torque
[20:15:28] <ssi> and in order to make them stable, the system has to be responsive enough to correct for it
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[20:15:41] <ssi> which means very small motors with very light rotors
[20:15:45] <ssi> and therefore, very light payloads
[20:16:03] <ssi> the only practical way to do bigger rotorcraft is with pitch control
[20:16:11] <ssi> or tilting head like a gyrocopter
[20:16:16] <PetefromTn_> there are some now that use tilt rotor designs and have motors that are like servos that can reverse on a dime etc...
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[20:18:20] <CaptHindsight> I wonder when we'll hear our first news story about a "toy" drone being used against a spy drone over the US
[20:18:27] <witnit> yeah they are very capable machines now, they are a bit scary to think about what kinds of payloads they can carry
[20:18:41] <ssi> I heard someting the othjer day about a toy drone crashing on the white house lawn, and now obama wants to ban "drones"
[20:18:54] <zeeshan|2> ownt
[20:18:55] <zeeshan|2> :D
[20:19:10] <CaptHindsight> good way to make an impression so drone rights can be limited
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[20:19:40] <CaptHindsight> why come nobody cared about the drone that landed on my lawn?
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[20:20:47] <ssi> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8eSaafb9gLA/RZs_KeFPLnI/AAAAAAAAAQ0/dAMFqD-9ORc/s1024/DSC_4196.JPG
[20:20:55] <ssi> I once lost that entire pilots side window at 5500'
[20:20:58] <malcom2073_> ssi: He doesn't want to ban them, he wants them to be regulated, as they *should* be. RC flight has all sorts of rules that these idiots flying drones think they're exempt from
[20:21:06] <zeeshan|2> ROFL
[20:21:11] <zeeshan|2> youre busy taking a pic
[20:21:16] <zeeshan|2> while flying with no window
[20:21:17] <zeeshan|2> now
[20:21:18] <zeeshan|2> *nice
[20:21:25] <ssi> when I got home, I was lying on the couch with the tv off but the sound was coming over the stereo kinda softly
[20:21:26] <zeeshan|2> and at night time too!
[20:21:37] <ssi> and I hear "a south atlanta couple reported an object falling from space into their back yard"
[20:21:42] <zeeshan|2> ssi: what is the window made out of?
[20:21:44] <zeeshan|2> lexan?
[20:21:47] <ssi> acrylic
[20:21:52] <zeeshan|2> why not lexan
[20:21:55] <zeeshan|2> about same weight
[20:22:09] <zeeshan|2> SSI ROFL
[20:22:10] <ssi> acrylic forms easier
[20:22:10] <zeeshan|2> hahahaha
[20:22:32] <zeeshan|2> UFO !
[20:23:17] <CaptHindsight> ssi: do you have to make a report to the FAA when your plane loses something in flight?
[20:23:21] <ssi> no
[20:23:49] <ssi> I was under positive control at the time because I was flying over hartsfield, and I told the controller
[20:23:59] <ssi> he asked if I was declaring an emergency
[20:24:00] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[20:24:06] <ssi> I said no, it was windy but otherwise controllable
[20:24:06] <zeeshan|2> how do you not crash into commercial air liners
[20:24:15] <ssi> zeeshan|2: the sky is fucking huge
[20:24:17] <ssi> ever been up there?
[20:24:19] <zeeshan|2> yes
[20:24:20] <zeeshan|2> but like
[20:24:21] <ssi> it's crazy how big it is
[20:24:25] <zeeshan|2> dont you guys have ceiling restrictions?
[20:24:30] <ssi> not exactly
[20:24:33] <zeeshan|2> to stop collisions from happening
[20:24:39] <zeeshan|2> do you need a transponder?
[20:24:44] <ssi> depends
[20:24:50] <zeeshan|2> i remember seeing this on mayday
[20:24:54] <zeeshan|2> that a small plane had no transponder
[20:24:59] <zeeshan|2> since faa regulations dont require them to have one
[20:25:06] <zeeshan|2> and it crashed into a commercial airliner
[20:25:07] <malcom2073_> I've been in a big airline when it had to uh, "avoid" a small plane
[20:25:12] <CaptHindsight> aren't you given permission to fly within a certain window, heading and altitude
[20:25:19] <malcom2073_> That was fun
[20:25:37] <ssi> again, it depends
[20:25:54] <zeeshan|2> how does a commercial pilot
[20:25:58] <ssi> above 18,000' is class A airspace
[20:26:00] <malcom2073_> Not only is the sky huge, but it's very easy to move very fast out of the way, when you point down
[20:26:00] <zeeshan|2> know that you're not doing zig zags in the middle of night
[20:26:09] <ssi> everything in class A is under positive control
[20:26:18] <ssi> I can fly there, but physics tends to say no in the planes I fly
[20:26:34] <ssi> the RV will be able to get up there, but you need oxygen, and it's not super comfortable in an unpressurized plane
[20:26:49] <ssi> airliners ONLY fly above 18k except takeoff and landing
[20:26:58] <ssi> because it's far more efficient for jets to be high
[20:27:01] <zeeshan|2> yes but im more concerned
[20:27:06] <zeeshan|2> w/ during landing and takeoff
[20:27:10] <zeeshan|2> how do you guys stop from crashing into each other
[20:27:13] <zeeshan|2> are you flying by sight?
[20:27:16] <ssi> they more or less only takeoff and land from class B airports
[20:27:18] <zeeshan|2> but at night that is not possible
[20:27:22] <ssi> class B also requires positive control
[20:27:44] <ssi> I was on a flight plan when I took that picture because I was almost directly over atlanta airport
[20:27:55] <zeeshan|2> are there restrictions
[20:27:59] <zeeshan|2> on approach around an airport?
[20:28:03] <zeeshan|2> ive seen it on mayday!
[20:28:07] <ssi> in the case of atlanta, all KATL's runways are east west, so they run crossing traffic north/south at 5500'
[20:29:32] <ssi> there's really not that much interplay between GA and airliners
[20:29:50] <ssi> and airliners are always on an IFR plan, and the controllers can see GA airplanes even if they have no transponder
[20:29:59] <ssi> they just can't tell what altitude they're at
[20:30:06] <zeeshan|2> sh
[20:30:07] <zeeshan|2> ah
[20:30:08] <zeeshan|2> i mean
[20:30:20] <ssi> there's a primary return, which is the actual radar reflection
[20:30:24] <CaptHindsight> ssi: are there any certifications required to make your plane legal to take off and fly?
[20:30:27] <ssi> then theres' the secondary, which is the transponder's return
[20:30:39] <CaptHindsight> ssi: when you build them
[20:30:46] <ssi> secondary contains a mode A 10 bit code and optionally a mode C altitude code
[20:31:01] <ssi> and nowadays starting to have mode S unique serial number with gps data, for the ADS-B system
[20:31:11] <zeeshan|2> how much does it cost to land your plane
[20:31:13] <ssi> CaptHindsight: just an airworthiness certificate
[20:31:14] <zeeshan|2> at atlanta airport
[20:31:25] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I dunno... ramp fees are significant I'm sure
[20:31:27] <ssi> $70 or so
[20:31:28] <zeeshan|2> ssi is getting bombarded with questions
[20:31:28] <zeeshan|2> :)
[20:31:31] <ssi> it's a foolish thing to do
[20:31:46] <zeeshan|2> well like in an emergency
[20:31:49] <zeeshan|2> do you still pay it? :-)
[20:31:49] <zeeshan|2> heh
[20:31:54] <CaptHindsight> my brother went to Parks to study aircraft engineering and maintenance
[20:31:57] <ssi> everything goes out the window in an emergency
[20:32:18] <CaptHindsight> ssi: who awards you that cert?
[20:32:19] <zeeshan|2> i guess the airport can be held accountable
[20:32:21] <zeeshan|2> if they dont let you land there
[20:32:28] <zeeshan|2> and you crash and kill a buncha people
[20:32:28] <zeeshan|2> :P
[20:32:40] <ssi> CaptHindsight: the regional FSDO, or a Designated Airworthiness Representative
[20:32:46] <zeeshan|2> im scared shitless of flying
[20:32:53] <zeeshan|2> i flew prolly 100+ times in airliners
[20:33:00] <ssi> zeeshan|2: ugh... $190 per 12 hours
[20:33:00] <zeeshan|2> but it only took one for me to never want to fly again
[20:33:05] <zeeshan|2> wow ssi!
[20:33:06] <ssi> http://www.atlanta-airport.com/docs/Facilities/AIRCRAFT%20PARKING%20CHARGES%20and%20LANDING%20FEE%20FY13.pdf
[20:33:13] <CaptHindsight> ssi: do they stop in like in building construction, during the rough-in and then for a final?
[20:33:15] <ssi> and that's just to the city
[20:33:19] <ssi> the FBO may charge tehir own ramp fees
[20:33:34] <ssi> CaptHindsight: no... you can get tech counselors to come by and inspect if you want
[20:33:40] <ssi> but the DAR or FSDO just comes at the end
[20:33:46] <ssi> and I just found out technically they don't have to inspect anything
[20:33:56] <zeeshan|2> how about landing it at the airport your hangers are at
[20:33:58] <ssi> they issue the certificate based on your signature as the manufacturer that it's airworthy
[20:34:00] <zeeshan|2> something more in the outskirts
[20:34:04] <ssi> but they'll inspect as a courtesy
[20:34:11] <ssi> zeeshan|2: no fees at my airport
[20:34:20] <ssi> it varies based on how busy and snooty an airport is
[20:34:31] <zeeshan|2> well atlanta is a stupid busy airport
[20:34:35] <zeeshan|2> like what #5 in the world?
[20:34:37] <zeeshan|2> i dont remember
[20:34:47] <ssi> it's #1 in the country
[20:34:55] <ssi> atl and ohare flip back and forth
[20:34:58] <ssi> and I think 2 in the world
[20:35:08] <zeeshan|2> youre right
[20:35:12] <zeeshan|2> its #1
[20:35:12] <ssi> nope 1 in the world now
[20:35:18] <ssi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_airports_by_passenger_traffic
[20:35:19] <zeeshan|2> so i guess its not too expensive for them to charge that money.
[20:35:42] <ssi> wow ohare slipped below LAX
[20:35:44] <CaptHindsight> do they discourage the use of small aircraft during busy times of the day?
[20:36:01] <ssi> at hartsfield they discourage small aircraft all the time :)
[20:36:18] <zeeshan|2> according to my knowledge from mayday
[20:36:23] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt matter what airport it is
[20:36:29] <zeeshan|2> in an emergency they'll let you land
[20:36:39] <ssi> yes absolutely
[20:36:39] <zeeshan|2> there was one episode they landed @ some military airport
[20:36:40] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:36:51] <ssi> like I said, in an emergency there are no rules
[20:37:32] <zeeshan|2> i need to get rid of my fear of flying
[20:37:37] <zeeshan|2> i was flying qatar airwayts
[20:37:39] <zeeshan|2> their first flight.
[20:37:48] <zeeshan|2> engine shut down
[20:37:57] <zeeshan|2> airport limped back to the airport
[20:38:03] <zeeshan|2> :P
[20:38:13] <ssi> everything went as it should have
[20:38:17] <zeeshan|2> it was a glider
[20:38:18] <ssi> no reason to let that make you nervous :)
[20:38:21] <zeeshan|2> for a brief movement
[20:38:25] <zeeshan|2> cause it had a double engine fairlure
[20:38:29] <zeeshan|2> at 15,000 feet
[20:38:35] <zeeshan|2> then they restarted one
[20:38:36] <toastydeath> the glide ratio of those things is like 30:1
[20:38:38] <ssi> you sure? that's pretty rare :P
[20:38:41] <zeeshan|2> yea dude
[20:38:47] * Tom_itx plops down in the chair
[20:38:47] <zeeshan|2> people were screaming and shit
[20:39:03] <zeeshan|2> then went quiet after 1 engine came on
[20:39:06] <ssi> toastydeath: I don't think it's quite that good :)
[20:39:06] <CaptHindsight> or land at the wrong airport http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2013/11/21/boeing-dreamlifter-kansas-airport/3661511/
[20:39:15] <PetefromTn_> must've been messy in there
[20:39:21] <toastydeath> the most conservative I can find for large jets is 15:1
[20:39:22] <zeeshan|2> LOL CaptHindsight
[20:39:27] <toastydeath> so i'll go with that
[20:39:43] <ssi> "A clean 727-200 has a glide ratio of 17:1. A clean MD-80 has a glide ratio of 28:1. A clean 747-200 has a glide ratio of 17:1 as well."
[20:39:43] <toastydeath> that's a 40 mile radius
[20:40:00] <ssi> it's definitely good
[20:40:04] <zeeshan|2> i think my only way to get over the fear
[20:40:04] <ssi> the high aspect wings help a lot there
[20:40:07] <zeeshan|2> is fly in a small plate
[20:40:09] <zeeshan|2> *plane
[20:40:13] <zeeshan|2> where i can see whats up
[20:40:15] <toastydeath> ...
[20:40:17] <_methods> jump out of one
[20:40:19] <ssi> zeeshan|2: come hang out, we can fix that
[20:40:19] <toastydeath> Small planes are way more dangerous
[20:40:21] <_methods> that will fix ya right up
[20:40:27] <zeeshan|2> toastydeath: at least you know youre gonna die
[20:40:33] <zeeshan|2> with a commercial liner
[20:40:34] <zeeshan|2> you cant see shit
[20:40:35] <ssi> yeah for the record they are way more dangerous
[20:40:39] <zeeshan|2> especially from the middle seat
[20:40:39] <ssi> but they're still not that dangerous
[20:40:45] <ssi> driving is WAY more dangerous :P
[20:40:46] <zeeshan|2> imagine being in a box
[20:40:49] <zeeshan|2> and knowing youre gonna die
[20:41:14] <ssi> haha my friend BJ says he prefers to fly at low altitude cause it's safer
[20:41:19] <zeeshan|2> i can just imagine ssi taking me for a ride
[20:41:22] <ssi> we all tell him that it's absolutely safer to be high
[20:41:23] <zeeshan|2> and doing zig zags
[20:41:24] <zeeshan|2> haha
[20:41:33] <ssi> he says "yeah but if I lose a wing I don't want time to think about it"
[20:41:38] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo... I just got my power bill. LOL
[20:41:46] <ssi> PetefromTn_: uh oh
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[20:41:51] <PetefromTn_> and it was only $128
[20:41:52] <ssi> time to pay for all that work you've been doing :)
[20:41:54] <ssi> oh wow
[20:42:03] <PetefromTn_> last year it was $400.00
[20:42:07] <PetefromTn_> for the same month
[20:42:13] <PetefromTn_> granted it has not been as cold
[20:42:16] tjb111 is now known as tjb1
[20:42:17] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: that new AC unit is making the difference even in winter :)
[20:42:18] <witnit> nice, you insulated?
[20:42:24] <PetefromTn_> but still I guess my new AC unit is kickin ass..
[20:42:44] <PetefromTn_> this makes PETEFROMTN VERY HAPPY!! :D
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[20:43:19] <PetefromTn_> that really is amazing honestly
[20:43:36] <PetefromTn_> because this past month I ran the machine quite a bit more than usual too
[20:43:46] <PetefromTn_> I EXPECTED a highish bill
[20:43:58] <PetefromTn_> so that was a nice surprise
[20:44:37] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: you bill would be higher if it was a commercial account or they based it on demand vs just kWh used
[20:45:09] <ssi> zeeshan|2: why don't you come visit, we'll get all my machines running and get you over your fears at the same time :)
[20:45:13] <PetefromTn_> that may be but it sounds like I did not use too many KWH in the first place
[20:45:17] <zeeshan|2> haha
[20:45:21] <CaptHindsight> we pay much more if we turn everything on at the same time in the summer
[20:45:24] <zeeshan|2> maybe over the summer!
[20:45:45] <zeeshan|2> i warn you though, if i work on a cnc machine
[20:45:49] <zeeshan|2> you'll see a 200A fuse for it
[20:45:50] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[20:46:01] <ssi> if you can find me a 200A fuse, I'll use it :)
[20:46:13] <PetefromTn_> ssi Too bad your plane is not bigger we are planning a trip to Florida soon LOL
[20:46:15] <ssi> actually yeah you need to come down and rewire my hangar for 100A for the VMC
[20:46:28] <zeeshan|2> i forget
[20:46:30] <zeeshan|2> is it 3 phase?
[20:46:32] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: has 30A fuses and 10ga THHN to his toaster oven :p
[20:46:32] <ssi> PetefromTn_: if dan would hurry up and get his 6 fixed I could accomodate!
[20:46:39] <ssi> zeeshan|2: it was originally, now it's single phase
[20:46:42] <zeeshan|2> ah
[20:48:12] <PetefromTn_> anyone need a pair of rubber check valves for Holley carbs? I sure as hell don't need them LOL
[20:48:25] <CaptHindsight> rubber
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[20:48:31] <zeeshan|2> whats a carb
[20:48:31] <Tom_itx> stuff a double pumper on that bronco!!!
[20:48:38] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[20:48:39] <PetefromTn_> screw that
[20:48:43] <CaptHindsight> heh, my floats used to stick open at times
[20:48:50] <zeeshan|2> ive never ever worked on a carb before
[20:48:55] <zeeshan|2> :D
[20:49:05] <CaptHindsight> I love carbs
[20:49:06] <Tom_itx> i've done dozens of em
[20:49:11] <PetefromTn_> I used to put weber carbs on the Suzuki samurai Rock crawlers I built
[20:49:14] <zeeshan|2> i should learn about them
[20:49:18] <zeeshan|2> cause theyre on my weedwacker
[20:49:26] <PetefromTn_> they were really reliable
[20:49:33] <Tom_itx> those aren't really carbs :D
[20:49:36] <zeeshan|2> o
[20:49:39] <zeeshan|2> what are they
[20:49:43] <CaptHindsight> distributors with centrifugal weights and advance springs
[20:49:46] <Tom_itx> well they are but....
[20:49:46] <PetefromTn_> but you had to turn them around backwards on the plenum or they would flood out on high angles
[20:49:49] <ssi> haha look what I found digging through my pictures
[20:49:50] <ssi> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XeFFr6aeNb4/R8ZDwJYipII/AAAAAAAAB7Y/jaM3nrP8uD4/s1280/DSC_3463.JPG
[20:49:57] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:49:58] <zeeshan|2> wtf
[20:50:05] <zeeshan|2> where is the plane
[20:50:19] <ssi> the idiot that runs the line service at my old airport brought a start cart out to help the guy get his 182 started
[20:50:27] <PetefromTn_> we also had to put a mechanical fuel pressure regulator on them or they would flood out..
[20:50:35] <ssi> said idiot was under the impression that you can use a 24V start cart on a 12V airplane if you "turn the current down"
[20:50:41] <ssi> he got away with that somehow for a long time
[20:50:44] <ssi> this time he didn't :D
[20:50:47] <zeeshan|2> HBAHAH
[20:51:12] <zeeshan|2> prolly got away with it cause most people overnegineer the wiring
[20:51:18] <ssi> it had 85 gallons of fuel onboard
[20:51:24] <ssi> there was a column of flame 200' tall
[20:51:25] <ssi> it was amazing
[20:51:35] <zeeshan|2> did you bbq marshmellows
[20:51:52] <zeeshan|2> hey btw
[20:51:55] <zeeshan|2> what kind of gas is it?
[20:51:59] <ssi> 100LL
[20:52:25] <zeeshan|2> interesting
[20:52:26] <zeeshan|2> lead in there
[20:52:32] <ssi> yeah
[20:52:33] <zeeshan|2> so it prolly doesnt knock as much
[20:52:43] <zeeshan|2> lead is a sweet det inhibitor :D
[20:52:46] <zeeshan|2> or preventor i guess
[20:52:47] <ssi> which is silly because airplane engines are very low compression
[20:52:54] <zeeshan|2> how much
[20:53:07] <ssi> most lycs are either 7:1, 8.5:1, or 8.7:1
[20:53:12] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:53:19] <zeeshan|2> you can prolly run 20 psi of boost in those
[20:53:33] <zeeshan|2> with like 20 degres of timing at mbt
[20:53:39] <zeeshan|2> before you'd prolly knock on that
[20:53:49] <ssi> well it's a little different
[20:53:54] <ssi> because they run low speed high torque all the time
[20:54:00] <zeeshan|2> ah
[20:54:02] <zeeshan|2> so they run hot
[20:54:04] <ssi> they're big bore air cooled flat engines
[20:54:10] <ssi> 5.25" bore
[20:54:20] <ssi> 360 cubic inch four cyl, or 540ci six cyl
[20:54:22] <PetefromTn_> you could put a weber on it ;)
[20:54:34] <ssi> an 8.7:1 540 makes 300hp at 2700rpm
[20:54:37] <ssi> that's a pile of torque
[20:54:40] <zeeshan|2> can you run em too long on the ground?
[20:54:47] <zeeshan|2> or will they overheat
[20:54:50] <ssi> yeah they don't cool well on the ground
[20:54:58] <ssi> but it's tough to run them full power on the ground anyway
[20:55:22] <ssi> only thing holding you in place is wheel chocks and/or brakes, and that's not remarkably safe :P
[20:55:32] <zeeshan|2> whats the typical rpm?
[20:55:34] <zeeshan|2> for redline
[20:55:37] <zeeshan|2> and operating
[20:55:38] <ssi> 2700rpm redline
[20:55:40] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[20:55:46] <zeeshan|2> okay i get you now
[20:55:56] <ssi> do this math mr engineer
[20:56:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rochester-4-barrel-Quadrajet-Carb-1705920-Gm-Chevy-/171662750200
[20:56:06] <ssi> at 2700rpm, how fast are the tips of a 74" prop moving?
[20:56:25] <ssi> if you approach the speed of sound, the tips cavitate and efficiency goes to shit
[20:56:28] <ssi> that's why they run slow
[20:56:28] <zeeshan|2> convert the 2700 rpm to rad/s
[20:56:32] <zeeshan|2> and multiple by 74/2
[20:56:35] <zeeshan|2> i think
[20:56:36] <zeeshan|2> :)
[20:56:41] <zeeshan|2> v = rw
[20:56:55] <zeeshan|2> okay so if you run anyfaster
[20:56:59] <zeeshan|2> you'll prolly destroy the prop
[20:57:02] <zeeshan|2> from centrifugal force
[20:57:08] <ssi> eh not necessarily
[20:57:12] <CaptHindsight> 74" radius or dia?
[20:57:15] <ssi> dia
[20:57:16] <zeeshan|2> so its more a fluid restriction
[20:57:21] <zeeshan|2> than strength
[20:57:27] <zeeshan|2> well ultimately its strength
[20:57:31] <ssi> it's all of the above :)
[20:57:34] <zeeshan|2> but cavitation is not good :P
[20:57:40] <ssi> but the primary reason that it's done that way is fluid dynamics
[20:58:01] <ssi> obv the props and engines aren't designed to run faster so they don't
[20:58:18] <ssi> there's a lot of rotating mass in a 360cid 4 cyl
[20:58:27] <ssi> and these engines have big sloppy clearances
[20:58:30] <ssi> they're very simple engines
[20:58:37] <CaptHindsight> is that why planes will never travel faster than the sped of sound? :)
[20:58:42] <zeeshan|2> sloppy cause they run hot i'd think?
[20:58:49] <zeeshan|2> you rather have them inefficient
[20:58:49] <ssi> that's why PROP planes will never travel faster than the speed of sound :)
[20:58:52] <zeeshan|2> than have them seize up
[20:58:57] <ssi> exactly
[20:59:05] <CaptHindsight> except for in a dive
[20:59:08] <ssi> it's amazing the shit that can fail on them without seizing
[20:59:30] <ssi> CaptHindsight: most prop planes won't hold up to anything like mach1+ in a dive
[20:59:36] <ssi> they'll just rip to pieces, or flutter to pieces
[20:59:42] <ssi> oh man
[20:59:46] <ssi> zeee you need to learn about flutter
[20:59:51] <ssi> and help me design around it
[21:00:01] <zeeshan|2> if i design it
[21:00:02] <zeeshan|2> you'll never fly
[21:00:08] <zeeshan|2> your plane will weight 123908230982 x more than it should
[21:00:11] <ssi> true
[21:00:15] <zeeshan|2> :)
[21:00:17] <ssi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroelasticity
[21:00:20] <malcom2073_> Man, my cars break down enough that I work on, I can't imagine working on a plane
[21:00:22] <malcom2073_> much less designing one
[21:00:31] <CaptHindsight> maybe P51 and the P-38
[21:00:59] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:01:00] <zeeshan|2> thats cool
[21:01:17] <zeeshan|2> put a servo in that bish
[21:01:28] <zeeshan|2> contro lthe rate of fuel transfer from tank to tank!
[21:01:29] <zeeshan|2> :P
[21:01:42] <ssi> fuel imbalance isn't the kind of thing I'm concerned with :)
[21:01:46] <zeeshan|2> well
[21:01:51] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of adding damping
[21:01:57] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTFZNrTYp3k
[21:02:10] <zeeshan|2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibration#mediaviewer/File:Forced_Vibration_Response.png
[21:02:13] <zeeshan|2> have you seen this graph
[21:02:18] <zeeshan|2> this is like the most important graph in vibrations
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[21:02:37] <zeeshan|2> ssi lol
[21:02:39] <zeeshan|2> that looks scary
[21:02:51] <ssi> it's pretty much the scariest thing in aircraft design :P
[21:02:55] <zeeshan|2> i think if you tuned it
[21:03:05] <zeeshan|2> to have some dapening
[21:03:08] <zeeshan|2> itd help
[21:03:12] <zeeshan|2> if you look at that weird letter
[21:03:15] <zeeshan|2> zeta or whatever its called
[21:03:19] <zeeshan|2> thats the damping ratio
[21:03:41] <zeeshan|2> you can see how much a little bit of damping does to decrease the amplitude ratio @ frequency ratio of 1
[21:03:52] <CaptHindsight> ssi: how many hours of instruction and flight are requires to be certified for instrument flight?
[21:03:56] <zeeshan|2> frequency ratio of 1 being your resonant frequency area
[21:04:04] <zeeshan|2> capt
[21:04:05] <zeeshan|2> lioke 100
[21:04:25] <ssi> CaptHindsight: refer to code of federal regulations part 61 :D
[21:04:29] <CaptHindsight> huh, thought it was much more
[21:04:40] <ssi> http://www.gleim.com/aviation/faraim/?leafNum=61.65#avTab%3DleafNum%3D61.65
[21:04:54] <zeeshan|2> http://www.spectrumairways.com/index.php/professional-flight-training/instrument-rating
[21:04:55] <zeeshan|2> even less
[21:05:01] <zeeshan|2> looks like 90 hours
[21:05:04] <ssi> (1) Fifty hours of cross country flight time as pilot in command, of which 10 hours must have been in an airplane; and
[21:05:06] <CaptHindsight> i could look it up but since you're chatty today :)
[21:05:08] <ssi> (2) Forty hours of actual or simulated instrument time in the areas of operation listed in paragraph (c) of this section, of which 15 hours must have been received from an authorized instructor who holds an instrument-airplane rating, and the instrument time includes:
[21:05:22] <ssi> it's not a straightforward number
[21:05:31] <ssi> but the short answer is 40 hours of instrument time
[21:05:44] <ssi> and most peopple don't realize that only 15 of it has to be dual
[21:06:00] <ssi> so if you have a pilot buddy he can fly safety while you fly under the hood and all that time is loggable toward the 40
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[21:06:36] <CaptHindsight> sounds like something I wouldn't want to shortcut
[21:07:08] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[21:07:10] <zeeshan|2> to be honest
[21:07:13] <ssi> spoken like someone who hasn't had to pay for 40 hours of flight training :D
[21:07:18] <zeeshan|2> the cheapest / quickest way to reduce flutter
[21:07:19] <CaptHindsight> I'd probably want to pay for simulator time in dealing with poor weather and emergencies
[21:07:30] <zeeshan|2> would be throwing an accelrometer on the part
[21:07:34] <zeeshan|2> control system
[21:07:39] <zeeshan|2> and just change the frequency ratio
[21:07:42] <zeeshan|2> by not operating there
[21:07:54] <zeeshan|2> i know w/ planes they hate adding extra weight
[21:07:56] <ssi> that's how it's currently done
[21:08:11] <zeeshan|2> the only other way i can t hink thats feasiable
[21:08:16] <zeeshan|2> is redesigning the shape of it
[21:08:23] <ssi> they test fly, find the airspeed of divergent stability, then make never exceed speed 10% below that
[21:08:25] <zeeshan|2> to change the point it oscillates
[21:08:31] <CaptHindsight> I got rid of the motorcycles and put learing to fly on the shelf after the kids
[21:08:42] <zeeshan|2> yea
[21:08:46] <zeeshan|2> dude i was amazed to find this in my vfd
[21:08:48] <ssi> but for instance, my RV has a Vne of 230mph / 200kt
[21:08:48] <zeeshan|2> they have jump points
[21:08:51] <zeeshan|2> so you identify oscillation points
[21:08:58] <zeeshan|2> and the vfd jumps to different speds to avoid oscillation
[21:09:08] <ssi> with 200hp and a good prop, it can cruise 190kt in level flight
[21:09:09] <_methods> hehe yeah wife made me quit skydiving too
[21:09:10] <ssi> that's not a lot of margin
[21:09:14] <_methods> i tried to get her to go
[21:09:24] <_methods> that never worked out lol
[21:09:29] <zeeshan|2> whats vne?
[21:09:34] <ssi> never exceed speed
[21:09:39] <zeeshan|2> so if you exceed it
[21:09:39] <ssi> redline
[21:09:41] <zeeshan|2> you get flutter?
[21:09:47] <ssi> you run the risk of flutter
[21:10:22] <zeeshan|2> vibrations is a weird thing
[21:10:31] <zeeshan|2> usually you can add mass or increase stiffness
[21:10:32] <zeeshan|2> but sometimes
[21:10:39] <ssi> the way they flight test for it is a method they call the "slap the stick" method
[21:10:47] <zeeshan|2> it'll end up causing 2 natural frequencies to exist
[21:11:05] <ssi> they cruise at an airspeed, trim it for hands off, and disturb the controls briefly (apply a step impluse basically), and watch for divergent stability
[21:11:15] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:11:18] <zeeshan|2> fuck dude
[21:11:20] <zeeshan|2> that's a bit scary
[21:11:27] <ssi> test pilots are hard mofugs
[21:11:37] <zeeshan|2> i thought tuning my servo was scary
[21:11:43] <zeeshan|2> these guys are crzy
[21:11:55] <ssi> I haven't decided if I'm gonna test fly the pitts or have someone else do it :)
[21:12:04] <ssi> I have a friend who is a good test pilot
[21:12:05] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:12:25] <zeeshan|2> just take your airplane to a full sized find tunnel
[21:12:26] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[21:12:30] <zeeshan|2> *wind
[21:12:33] <ssi> that's not how it works!
[21:12:34] <zeeshan|2> and pay like 29308328 $
[21:12:42] <ssi> wind tunnel testing is not the same as flight testing
[21:12:47] <zeeshan|2> i know :P
[21:12:56] <ssi> I mean it doesn't accomplish the same things :)
[21:13:06] <zeeshan|2> well can't you increase the wind speed
[21:13:09] <ssi> the real-world analog to wind tunnel testing is tuft testing
[21:13:12] <zeeshan|2> to the point it flutters
[21:13:31] <ssi> oh for flutter yeah I suppose you could
[21:13:44] <zeeshan|2> i just looked up tufts
[21:13:54] <zeeshan|2> thats what people do on their cars
[21:13:59] <zeeshan|2> ricers! :)
[21:14:02] <ssi> yeah
[21:14:07] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIsWseMbDQU
[21:14:28] <ssi> you can see the washout doing its thing in this videoa
[21:14:31] <zeeshan|2> so you're just trying to see if the viscid layer is laminar
[21:14:32] <zeeshan|2> or turbulent?
[21:14:36] <ssi> the tip is flying before the root
[21:14:40] <ssi> yes
[21:14:45] <ssi> a stall is when the boundary layer starts to detacrh
[21:14:55] <ssi> in the beginning of that vid you can watch the boundary attach from the tip inboard
[21:14:59] <zeeshan|2> yes
[21:15:14] <zeeshan|2> at :57 its going crazy
[21:15:19] <ssi> it's desirable to have the root stall first
[21:15:33] <ssi> so you maintain aileron control while feeling the stall
[21:15:44] <zeeshan|2> WOW
[21:15:45] <zeeshan|2> dude
[21:15:51] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt take much for the plane to stall
[21:16:10] <ssi> it takes exactly one thing
[21:16:17] <ssi> exceeding the critical angle of attack of the airfoil :)
[21:16:23] <zeeshan|2> well
[21:16:27] <zeeshan|2> when he decreased thrust
[21:16:35] <zeeshan|2> he also almost stalled
[21:16:45] <ssi> it's not that he decreased thrust, it's that he increased pitch
[21:17:15] <ssi> with power in, the attitude that it stalls at will be much higher than without power
[21:17:22] <ssi> so for stall testing, you'll reduce power generally
[21:17:48] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of something else
[21:17:51] <zeeshan|2> if youre at higher altitude
[21:17:54] <zeeshan|2> air is thinner
[21:18:07] <zeeshan|2> would you stall more easily?
[21:18:11] <ssi> sorta
[21:18:15] <ssi> there's a couple factors at work there
[21:18:26] <zeeshan|2> like 20 degrees angle of attack at 4000 ft vs 15000 ft
[21:18:44] <ssi> the indicated stall speed will go up due to reduced air density, because indicated airspeed is dynamic ram pressure, q
[21:18:54] <ssi> but the critical angle of attack stays the same
[21:19:01] <zeeshan|2> ah
[21:19:21] <zeeshan|2> so its easier to fly at higher latitude
[21:19:23] <zeeshan|2> makes sense
[21:19:25] <ssi> it takes higher angle of attack to fly a given airspeed at higher altitudes
[21:19:31] <zeeshan|2> thats why cruiser liners fly at 30,000 feet
[21:19:32] <ssi> because there's less air density to react against
[21:19:33] <zeeshan|2> less gas usage
[21:20:20] <ssi> that's more a function of the operating mode of turbojets than the aerodynamics
[21:20:38] <ssi> winds aloft are much stronger up high, which can be helpful or not
[21:20:40] <zeeshan|2> as you can see im clueless about airplanes :)
[21:20:48] <ssi> airlines have extremely complex route planning software
[21:21:01] <ssi> that takes into account weight and balance, fuel requirements, weather and winds, all sorts of crap
[21:21:20] <ssi> I have friends that worked on delta's route planning software
[21:21:53] <ssi> hell, I wrote some simple stuff once upon a time and even that was harder than I expected
[21:22:13] <ssi> given a great circle route between two points in the US, and a database of airports with their fuel prices, find the most efficient route to fly with fuel stops
[21:22:17] <ssi> harder problem than it sounds like it'd be
[21:22:35] <zeeshan|2> stuff gets hard with the number of variables you wanna consider
[21:22:43] <zeeshan|2> and how precise you want to be
[21:22:49] <zeeshan|2> i have that issue for my lab thing
[21:22:53] <zeeshan|2> im doing simple tensile testing
[21:23:00] <zeeshan|2> but before i can even do it
[21:23:07] <PetefromTn_> yeah like from Atlanta, to Knoxville, to West Palm Beach, back to Knoxville, and then to Atlanta again.
[21:23:08] <zeeshan|2> how my samples are prepared, temperature, light, etc
[21:23:09] <zeeshan|2> all have an effect
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[21:23:24] <ssi> PetefromTn_: that's a plenty efficient route if the folks in knoxville are paying the fuel bills :)
[21:23:33] <PetefromTn_> Oh damn
[21:23:37] <PetefromTn_> ;)
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[21:23:58] <PetefromTn_> probably cost me more than ac commercial flight anyways...
[21:24:25] <CaptHindsight> ssi: is there a limit on the number of flight hours your wooden frame can have before it has to be retired from flight?
[21:24:26] <PetefromTn_> and there would not be any pretty stewardesses..
[21:24:43] <ssi> CaptHindsight: nope
[21:24:51] <ssi> CaptHindsight: some fiberglass airframes are life limited
[21:25:07] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I might can get a pretty stewardess...
[21:25:17] <PetefromTn_> doubtful
[21:25:25] <ssi> thanks ass ;)
[21:25:29] <PetefromTn_> but then the price goes up right
[21:25:32] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[21:25:33] <CaptHindsight> how about aluminum? or is that just for commercial airlines?
[21:25:45] <ssi> generally there's no life limits on airframes
[21:25:50] <PetefromTn_> ASS? MOI?
[21:26:04] <ssi> btw it's 600nm from KTYS to KPBI
[21:26:12] <CaptHindsight> I recall that flight to Hawaii some years ago that opened up like a can from metal fatigue
[21:26:29] <ssi> about 4.6 hours in a cherokee 6, about 70 gallons one way
[21:26:53] <ssi> it does fatigue, but that doesn't mean there's a life limit
[21:27:01] <ssi> it just gets inspected and repaired as necessary
[21:27:28] <ssi> PetefromTn_: you're in luck, fuel is cheap right now... around $4 on average if you pick good fuel stops
[21:27:29] <CaptHindsight> http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/2001/Jan/18/118localnews1.html
[21:27:42] <ssi> that means that whole trip could be done for under $600 in fuel, which has to be less than flying commercial for four
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[21:28:07] <ssi> that's not taking into account flying up there to get you or flying back
[21:28:16] <ssi> or teh fact that I don't have a six place airplane available at the moment :)
[21:29:25] <PetefromTn_> hehe Shit we could just drive down there to you..
[21:29:28] <CaptHindsight> that must have been an exciting last 15 minutes or so before landing
[21:29:35] <ssi> PetefromTn_: yea that'd work :)
[21:30:00] <ssi> well I'll give you dan's number, and you can call and give him shit for not putting the engine back together on that thing in only two and a half years since he took it apart
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[21:30:15] <PetefromTn_> I am just kidding tho I SERIOUSLY doubt my wife would want to fly in a non commercial plane. She is a fraidy cat
[21:30:35] <zeeshan|2> wtf
[21:30:42] <zeeshan|2> at least you see youll die !
[21:30:47] <zeeshan|2> f commercial plane!
[21:30:47] <zeeshan|2> :
[21:30:49] <zeeshan|2> :D
[21:31:03] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Is vanity stronger than fear? What if you offer her the role of pretty stewardess?
[21:31:06] <ssi> I don't like flying commercial because the seats are so damn uncomfortable
[21:31:31] <zeeshan|2> ssi be25a20ac
[21:31:31] <ssi> small planes aren't much better, but at least I can pick my seatmates :)
[21:31:38] <zeeshan|2> the 20 is some number for the ratio of voltage
[21:31:43] <ssi> 200v
[21:31:46] <zeeshan|2> i found some be25a40ac drives
[21:31:48] <zeeshan|2> so 400v
[21:31:50] <ssi> yeah
[21:31:53] <zeeshan|2> how do you limit the voltage??!
[21:31:57] <Deejay> gn8
[21:31:58] <ssi> on those you don't
[21:32:03] <ssi> well maybe you can
[21:32:09] <zeeshan|2> im thinking the supply voltage
[21:32:13] <zeeshan|2> determines the out voltage?
[21:32:15] <PetefromTn_> yeah sorry I doubt that will work even tho it is true
[21:32:16] <ssi> the non AC drives you give them whatever supply you want
[21:32:24] <ssi> the AC drives have a rectifier and filter in them
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[21:32:34] <ssi> so 120VAC gets rectified to 190VDC
[21:32:38] <zeeshan|2> yea
[21:32:40] <zeeshan|2> 1.5 ratio almost
[21:32:42] <ssi> the 400V drives probably just take 220
[21:32:48] <zeeshan|2> tehse drives say like 35 - 240vac
[21:32:50] <ssi> if you give them 120 it'll probably behave same as a 20
[21:32:54] <zeeshan|2> yea
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[21:33:05] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-ADVANCED-MOTION-CONTROLS-B35A40ACL-BRUSHLESS-SERVO-AMPLIFIER/291366914927?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D28808%26meid%3Dcd8c49e283ac48d5923ee1427d1dc2f1%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D371245938429&rt=nc
[21:33:08] <zeeshan|2> cheap
[21:33:19] <zeeshan|2> person made a typo
[21:33:19] <ssi> shit nice
[21:33:20] <zeeshan|2> its a b25
[21:33:47] <ssi> yea
[21:33:56] <zeeshan|2> and they have proper power connectors
[21:33:59] <zeeshan|2> not that lame ass iec connector
[21:34:01] <ssi> for it
[21:34:02] <CaptHindsight> but the aisles can be very cramped on private jets http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-amlsHEMxCtU/USd1G0nsnrI/AAAAAAAAAH8/HLmYujHRGDo/s1600/private+jet+flight+attendants.jpg
[21:34:05] <ssi> go for it even
[21:34:15] <zeeshan|2> hey no one else bid on this
[21:34:18] <zeeshan|2> im gonan snipe them!
[21:34:24] <zeeshan|2> in 17 hr 19 min
[21:34:24] <zeeshan|2> :)
[21:34:25] * ssi bids
[21:34:36] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I've ridden in the back of a lear 35 a couple times
[21:34:39] <ssi> it's quite comfortable :)
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[21:40:39] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Olsberg_mid-air_collision Learjet collides with Eurofighter Typhoon/Fire breaks out on F-35A
[21:40:55] <ssi> :) everyone loves a good disaster
[21:41:41] <CaptHindsight> oops "At the time of the accident, which was the first mid-air collision in German airspace in ten years,[9] the Learjet was simulating a civil airliner that had lost radio contact with Air Traffic Control. The Eurofighter Typhoons were simulating a military response to such a scenario.
[21:42:42] <ssi> that's the fighter's fault
[21:42:57] <ssi> they intercepted, it's their duty to fly paint and maintain separation, and they botched it
[21:43:13] <ssi> shame that the lear crew had to die for the fighter's mistake, and shame he had to live with it
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[21:46:47] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I'm combing through a mil spec for plywood, trynig to figure out if a grain orientation mistake I made is critical or not
[21:46:51] <Nick001-shop> Can one use a brushless servo amp to control a brushed servo?
[21:47:06] <ssi> Nick001-shop: the AMC drives, yes
[21:47:13] <ssi> I dunno if that's true generally
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[21:47:35] <ssi> but a brushed servo requires no commutation, so it's simpler to drive than a brushless servo
[21:47:56] <Nick001-shop> Hi ssi - how do I accomplish this
[21:48:43] <ssi> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/manual/AMC_AnalogDrives_InstallManual.pdf
[21:48:45] <ssi> look at page 48
[21:49:03] <ssi> Set the Hall Sensor Commutation Phasing DIP switch for 60-degree phasing. Leave all the Hall Sensor inputs on the drive open. These inputs are internally pulled high to +5V, creating a "1-1-1" commutation state (see Table 4.3 above) which is a valid state in 60- degree phasing. Only use Motor A and Motor B output in this configuration.
[21:50:21] <Nick001-shop> waiting for it to dl - did you ever get your Hardinge running - back in a few
[21:50:47] <ssi> not exactly... I fixed the pneumo issue in the turret, but before i was able to get back to working on it I burned the house
[21:50:52] <ssi> now it's sitting in the hangar waiting to be set back up
[21:50:58] <ssi> as soon as zeeshan|2 comes donw to help me
[21:52:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ajc.com/news/news/georgia-state-student-project-closed-downtown-conn/nj3xc/ can we go back to being the home of the brave now please?
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[21:53:00] <ssi> yeah that was fun
[21:53:05] <ssi> so glad I stayed home yesterday
[21:53:54] <ssi> that bridge btw is about 500 yards from where I'm sitting currently
[21:54:41] <CaptHindsight> http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/aresize/837x530/img/photos/2015/02/02/59/ab/020315_14th_st_device_BG1.jpg
[21:56:09] <PetefromTn_> Honestly thats pretty stupid of them to NOT realize that that thing could me misconstrued as some kind of a bomb....
[21:56:25] <ssi> agreed
[21:57:33] <CaptHindsight> we would have taped one of those to everything in site in 7th grade if got us out of class
[21:57:41] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[21:57:55] <PetefromTn_> this was a college project right?
[21:59:35] <PetefromTn_> just missed a call from that performance shop I bought the chrome vacuum gauge from on ebay
[21:59:45] <PetefromTn_> apparently they screwed up somehow
[21:59:57] <PetefromTn_> and they just paypal'd me a full refund
[22:00:10] <PetefromTn_> told me to keep the Holley check valves
[22:00:37] <PetefromTn_> but paypal put a hold on the money for some unknown reason...
[22:00:41] <PetefromTn_> shitheads...
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[22:04:11] <Jymmm> If ^2 is the inverse of SQRT(), what is the inverse of ^3 ?
[22:04:49] <ssi> cube root
[22:05:12] <Jymmm> I dont see that on my calculator =)
[22:05:20] <ssi> get a better calculator!
[22:05:28] <Jymmm> HP20s
[22:05:30] <ssi> or raise it to the power of 1/3
[22:06:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al7PllobwR4 How To Calculate Cube Roots
[22:07:37] <CaptHindsight> sorry wrong one http://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/algebra/cuberoots.php
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[22:12:17] <PetefromTn_> so nobody needs a Holley check valve then LOL?
[22:12:25] <ssi> probably not!
[22:14:16] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/z2Mg6LH.jpg Even if they are REALLY REALLY NICE and brand new?
[22:15:27] <Jymmm> ssi: PetefromTn_ TY
[22:15:50] <PetefromTn_> ?
[22:16:02] <Jymmm> err CaptHindsight, not PetefromTn_
[22:16:11] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: (nothing persona =)
[22:16:25] <PetefromTn_> non persona? I'm insulted man...
[22:17:11] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I dobt it'll be the first time, nor the last time =)
[22:17:20] <PetefromTn_> probably
[22:17:29] <PetefromTn_> but thanks for your concern!
[22:18:23] <Jymmm> sucks that my calculator app has cube root, but not my HP20s
[22:18:47] <ssi> just remember that the inverse of 2 is 1/2, and the inverse of 3 is 1/3
[22:18:48] <PetefromTn_> aren't you on a PC?
[22:19:03] <ssi> square root is the same as ^(1/2), and cube root is the same as ^(1/3)
[22:19:19] <ssi> fifth root is the same as ^(1/5)
[22:19:48] <PetefromTn_> it's more than your little window to the world you know.. ancient ones did these types of calculations pretty well :P
[22:21:16] <Jymmm> If you care, it's "RealCalc" on the playstore (free/paid)
[22:21:18] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: this was the last vehicle with a Holley I had http://imagebin.ca/v/1qQRAYrlLQyA
[22:21:57] <PetefromTn_> nice pickemuptruck
[22:23:01] <CaptHindsight> checkout the plate # http://imagebin.ca/v/1qQRnxgySu1H
[22:23:45] <PetefromTn_> OOh... nice but I am not a chevy guy reallly. But of course you knew that hehe
[22:24:22] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Yeah, PetefromTn_ is a Dodge guy
[22:24:23] <PetefromTn_> is that really yours or just one like it..
[22:24:31] <CaptHindsight> I was mostly GM for restorations, I did a few Mustangs as well
[22:24:33] <PetefromTn_> I had a dodge once...
[22:24:41] <PetefromTn_> once....
[22:24:43] <CaptHindsight> that was mine
[22:24:44] <Jymmm> lol
[22:25:30] <CaptHindsight> it would get ~3mpg when the floats would stick
[22:25:40] <PetefromTn_> hehe damn sticky floats
[22:25:54] <CaptHindsight> 8-9mpg when they weren't
[22:26:11] <PetefromTn_> very efficient
[22:26:21] <PetefromTn_> when your tires are boiling off..
[22:26:29] <CaptHindsight> and the gas tank was directly behind the seat where you could keep an eye on it :)
[22:27:27] <PetefromTn_> Like I said I am not really a pickup kind of guy but I did once have a close friend who had a really cool truck at least for 1980's
[22:27:42] <PetefromTn_> he had a lowered Mazda single cab pickup
[22:27:48] <PetefromTn_> that had a removable roof
[22:28:00] <ssi> did he have the matching mullet and jean jacket?
[22:28:01] <PetefromTn_> and yeah while it sounds like a ricer kinda POS
[22:28:07] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[22:28:08] <zeeshan|2> wtf
[22:28:11] <zeeshan|2> dont tell people about amc drives
[22:28:14] <zeeshan|2> when im trying to bid on them!
[22:28:15] <ssi> ha
[22:28:17] <PetefromTn_> this thing was one of the most fun cars to ride in for some unknown reason
[22:28:26] <CaptHindsight> I mostly had 67-73 Firebirds and Transams back then
[22:28:29] <zeeshan|2> also grain orientation w/ wood
[22:28:30] <zeeshan|2> is a big deal :/
[22:28:35] <ssi> yeah I know
[22:28:37] <ssi> but it's plywood
[22:28:37] <ssi> heh
[22:28:47] <zeeshan|2> not so much a big deal then i'd think.
[22:28:51] <zeeshan|2> cause each layer changes oirentation
[22:28:52] <zeeshan|2> anyway
[22:28:53] <ssi> well, that's what I'm trying to figure out
[22:28:55] <PetefromTn_> had a wicked stereo
[22:29:03] <zeeshan|2> well find that answer too
[22:29:03] <ssi> cause the face layers are mahogany but the center plies are poplar
[22:29:08] <zeeshan|2> but i think logically safety wise
[22:29:09] <zeeshan|2> it makes sense
[22:29:14] <PetefromTn_> and he had a pair of stand up jetski's that were painted to match the truck
[22:29:17] <ssi> and I was supposed to orient the face grain with the spar, but I missed it :/
[22:29:30] <ssi> I'm thinking I might just laminate some 1/32" birch ply on top in the proper orientation and be done with it
[22:29:59] <PetefromTn_> that had a neat bed mount
[22:30:14] <PetefromTn_> we used to go riding on the intercoastal all the time
[22:30:54] <zeeshan|2> can someone explain to me
[22:30:59] <zeeshan|2> why i can boot from a usb disk in legacy mode
[22:31:02] <zeeshan|2> but on a bios with uefi only
[22:31:03] <zeeshan|2> it wont let me
[22:31:06] <zeeshan|2> i dont know the diff
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[22:36:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.itworld.com/article/2879535/hundreds-apply-for-faa-drone-licenses.html
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[23:32:09] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: fuctory BIOS/EFI is why, they are all complete kludges of BIOS components slapped together in the hope it works
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[23:50:08] <Tom_itx> how can i test a mesa pwm output without attaching it to the spindle functions?
[23:51:19] <PCW> LED?
[23:52:10] <PCW> Oh in HAL, setp :-)
[23:52:15] <Tom_itx> no, how to get the pwm to output.. i will have a LA attached to it
[23:52:43] <Tom_itx> how do i vary it though?
[23:53:00] <Tom_itx> i have the setp commands set up i think
[23:53:04] <PCW> connect to siggen?
[23:53:30] <Tom_itx> i could hook it to the spindle stuff but i don't have the spindle scale yet
[23:53:39] <Tom_itx> i gotta figure that out next
[23:54:03] <zeeshan|2> looks like tom is having fun
[23:54:04] <zeeshan|2> man
[23:54:09] <zeeshan|2> you guys should see the setup i have going
[23:54:14] <PCW> well set the frequency , the scale, the enable and then set the value
[23:54:22] <zeeshan|2> i have 3 laptops , 3 work stations , 1 server
[23:54:23] <zeeshan|2> 1 nas
[23:54:26] <Tom_itx> what's the range?
[23:54:31] <zeeshan|2> multiple monitors !
[23:54:41] <Tom_itx> 65565?
[23:54:42] <zeeshan|2> i literally have it in a circle and im chain installing windows 7 on em
[23:54:54] <Tom_itx> 255?
[23:55:11] <PCW> do you mean resolution?
[23:55:16] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:55:33] <PCW> depends on frequency
[23:55:42] <Tom_itx> i need 25khz
[23:55:52] <PCW> ok so 12 bits
[23:55:55] <Tom_itx> i set the freq to that in the setp
[23:56:51] <PCW> default scale is 1.0 so if not changed 0.50 = 50% duty cycle
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[23:57:11] <Tom_itx> does the duty or freq change with pwmgen?
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[23:57:27] <PCW> ?
[23:57:40] <Tom_itx> nm i think you just answered that
[23:57:53] <zeeshan|2> PCW
[23:58:19] <zeeshan|2> did you see my earlier question?
[23:58:24] <zeeshan|2> about 5v inputs and 24v inputs
[23:58:24] <PCW> no
[23:58:43] <zeeshan|2> if im using one field i/o as 5v
[23:58:50] <zeeshan|2> where does the ground wire from the 5v supply go?
[23:58:57] <zeeshan|2> and all the other fields are 24v
[23:59:11] <PCW> 5V input?
[23:59:19] <zeeshan|2> yes 5v inputs sorry
[23:59:22] <zeeshan|2> not outputs.