Back
[00:00:02] <Jymmm> But, PE can NOT be cemented, so that might explain it.
[00:00:16] <JT-Shop> zeeshan, you can set up a timer in CL pretty easy and monitor motion motion something or other so when your moving or running oil the ways and when your not moving don't
[00:00:25] * JT-Shop wanders inside
[00:01:51] <Jymmm> Hmmm, only CORRUGATED HDPE
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-4-in-x-10-ft-Corrugated-HDPE-Drain-Pipe-Solid-with-Bell-End-4540010/100212428
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[00:11:44] <bobo_> Jymmm: down spout or sewer drain ?
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[00:31:40] <zeeshan> pcw_home, hi
[00:34:32] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/iStyYgt.png
[00:34:36] <zeeshan> X-axis.
[00:34:42] <zeeshan> no matter what i do, i cant get rid of that spike
[00:34:48] <zeeshan> tightening the belt helped.
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[00:36:01] <zeeshan> there is always that 0.0015" spike in the begining
[00:36:07] <zeeshan> no matter if im at 200 ipm or 100 ipm
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[00:37:01] <zeeshan> even there at 11 ipm
[00:38:06] <zeeshan> when i do it at 11 ipm, i can see its underdamped.
[00:39:09] <pcw_home> it may be still some backlash and stiction
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[00:41:34] <pcw_home> try 2 moves in the same direction and only plot the second
[00:41:44] <zeeshan> how much ipm
[00:42:28] <pcw_home> maybe a bit slower since this is not velocity related
[00:42:50] <pcw_home> say 50 IPM
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[00:46:41] <pcw_home> my guess is that that spike is because of stiction and backlash. The ferror spike is because there is no motion until about 20 ms
[00:46:43] <pcw_home> plotting the encoder velocity and zooming up on the start point will make it clearer
[00:46:58] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/HyUd6DI.png
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[00:49:44] <pcw_home> OK looks more like stiction
[00:50:27] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: once you tighten that machine up mechanically it will be fine
[00:51:01] <archivist> stiction can mean too tight
[00:51:44] <CaptHindsight> he still has all that mechanical freeplay in his system
[00:51:51] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight, i fixed the belt
[00:51:59] <zeeshan> thats why the other spikes are gone
[00:52:00] <zeeshan> i think.
[00:52:05] <CaptHindsight> i was out the past 2-3 hours
[00:52:19] <zeeshan> i have a dial indicator hooked up at the end of the screw
[00:52:46] <zeeshan> im reading 0.0004 movement of screw
[00:53:07] <CaptHindsight> that like 10um!
[00:54:30] <archivist> any surface rust on the ways?
[00:54:35] <zeeshan> no
[00:54:37] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: add a tensioner or pull the motor back more?
[00:54:41] <zeeshan> i lubed them really good.
[00:54:46] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight, pulled motor back more
[00:55:05] <pcw_home> correct way lube?
[00:55:08] <zeeshan> ofcourse
[00:55:09] <zeeshan> hehe
[00:55:20] <CaptHindsight> motors too weenie?
[00:55:22] <zeeshan> im gonna jog it back and forth a bunch
[00:55:29] <zeeshan> wear it in :)
[00:56:33] <CaptHindsight> can you turn the screw with an oz/in torque wrench?
[00:56:51] <zeeshan> no attachment point
[00:57:23] <pcw_home> things that may help (other then mechanical)
[00:57:24] <pcw_home> raise drive current limit all the way up
[00:57:26] <pcw_home> raise P (2 or even 4 KHz servo thread rate will possibly allow some more P)
[00:57:38] <CaptHindsight> how are the screws fixed at each end?
[00:57:42] <zeeshan> im not close to the ideal p
[00:57:52] <zeeshan> X is fixed on one end
[00:58:00] <archivist> I was about to ask if the drive current limit was still set low
[00:58:08] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight, that is only giving 0.0004"
[00:58:14] <zeeshan> im getting spikes of 2 thou
[00:58:21] <zeeshan> in ferror
[00:58:37] <zeeshan> drive current is set to what motor spec wanted
[00:58:53] <pcw_home> ummm no
[00:59:02] <zeeshan> not the peak
[00:59:06] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/main-types894.jpg
[00:59:06] <zeeshan> but continuous
[00:59:20] <pcw_home> the drive needs to generate the peak current the motor needs
[00:59:30] <zeeshan> if it cant
[00:59:32] <archivist> that is too low, what pcw says
[00:59:40] <zeeshan> how can i get around it
[00:59:50] <zeeshan> slow the accel down?
[01:00:06] <pcw_home> current is all the way up?
[01:00:22] <zeeshan> current is set to 6.5A on the drive continuous.
[01:00:30] <zeeshan> which means 13A peak
[01:00:34] <pcw_home> thats wrong
[01:00:45] <zeeshan> motor name plate says 6.5A?
[01:00:46] <CaptHindsight> try it again at 13a
[01:00:50] <pcw_home> insufficient peak current
[01:01:13] <zeeshan> i cant change the peak current
[01:01:17] <zeeshan> its set as a ratio on these drives..
[01:01:27] <pcw_home> continuous really means nothing (just a thermal rating)
[01:01:30] <archivist> motors are happy with very high peak current
[01:02:02] <zeeshan> they have a s3 rating of 7.0A.
[01:02:26] <zeeshan> what im gonna do is
[01:02:32] <zeeshan> set it to 8A
[01:02:34] <zeeshan> and see if it make sa diff.
[01:02:39] <zeeshan> will it throw the tune off?
[01:02:44] <pcw_home> so a _minimum _of 21 A peak
[01:03:29] <zeeshan> so these drives suck
[01:03:30] <zeeshan> lol
[01:03:44] <pcw_home> The drives are fine
[01:03:49] <zeeshan> i suck!
[01:04:02] <pcw_home> you misunderstand the drive continuous rating
[01:04:10] <CaptHindsight> don't get so down on yourself :)
[01:04:49] <zeeshan> is continuous rating not the same thing as FLA rating
[01:04:51] <zeeshan> for induction motors
[01:05:08] <pcw_home> yes its a thermal limit
[01:05:38] <zeeshan> so if cont rating is 7.0A, and i set it to 8A on the drive
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[01:05:56] <zeeshan> won't that cause the motor to overheat given enough load
[01:06:12] <zeeshan> i thought the point of the current limit on the drive was to prevent motor overheating
[01:06:16] <zeeshan> in all circumstancs
[01:06:17] <pcw_home> you will get about 1/3 of the performance
[01:06:45] <zeeshan> so whats your suggestion?
[01:06:50] <zeeshan> what should i set my cont rating to on the drive
[01:06:59] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: just do what we say and after it's working ask questions :)
[01:07:21] <pcw_home> overheating in servo motors is
[01:07:22] <pcw_home> 1. uncommon
[01:07:24] <pcw_home> 2. usually sensed with a thermistor or switch
[01:07:41] <zeeshan> these dont have a thermistor
[01:08:00] <zeeshan> gonna set it to 8A
[01:08:04] <zeeshan> and see if there is improvement
[01:08:05] <archivist> more
[01:08:13] <CaptHindsight> 15
[01:08:16] <zeeshan> well if its at 6.5A
[01:08:20] <zeeshan> at 8A
[01:08:23] <zeeshan> i should see some change right? :)
[01:09:07] <pcw_home> Unless the drive has thermal modeling of the motor (it doesnt)
[01:09:09] <pcw_home> the continuous rating of the drive is basically meaningless
[01:09:29] <pcw_home> peak is everything in servo systems
[01:09:41] <zeeshan> okay
[01:09:46] <zeeshan> what should i set it to
[01:09:51] <zeeshan> all the way up?!? :D
[01:09:53] <zeeshan> 12.5A ?!
[01:10:12] <CaptHindsight> relying on limiting the continuous current into a motor is very poor way of preventing it from overheating
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[01:10:32] <pcw_home> The ideal thing would be to find the motor ratings
[01:10:46] <zeeshan> i have the original motor specs
[01:10:48] <zeeshan> what do you need to know
[01:10:56] <CaptHindsight> the same motor might be mounted on an infinite heat sink or in a very good insulator
[01:11:02] <pcw_home> peak current
[01:11:07] <zeeshan> peak current rating is
[01:11:11] <zeeshan> 10x continuous rating
[01:11:17] <zeeshan> 5-10x
[01:11:22] <zeeshan> lemme give you exact value brb.
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[01:14:35] <zeeshan|2> x,y motors 6.4A armature current
[01:14:49] <zeeshan|2> peak current 51A
[01:15:37] <zeeshan|2> z motor 13.8A
[01:15:40] <zeeshan|2> peak 110A
[01:16:28] <zeeshan|2> accel for x,y = 5850 rad/s^2 , max, 6940 rad/s^2
[01:16:46] <CaptHindsight> crank up the current and add some thermal sensors if the motors don't have them
[01:16:48] <zeeshan|2> accel for z 6670 rad/s^2, 9010 rad/s^2 max.
[01:17:29] <zeeshan|2> aramature max temp
[01:17:30] <zeeshan|2> 130C
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[01:20:14] <archivist> and add some weight to the table so when adjusting upwards it is ok when working with a normal load
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[01:21:26] <zeeshan|2> what i set cont rating to
[01:21:28] <zeeshan|2> for x and y
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[01:24:08] <zeeshan> iturned it up allthe way :P
[01:24:33] <zeeshan> spike is still there.
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[01:26:12] <zeeshan> exact same spike :/
[01:27:03] <archivist> gib set too tight?
[01:27:12] <zeeshan> its much better at lower speeds
[01:27:14] <pcw_home> so it was not current limiting, but at least now you have more reasonable peak torque capability
[01:27:28] <zeeshan> gonna jog at 50 ipm sec.
[01:27:48] <zeeshan> its gone down a bit
[01:27:56] <zeeshan> from .002 to .0011
[01:28:06] <zeeshan> and there isnt as much variation
[01:28:18] <pcw_home> you might try increasing P some
[01:28:23] <zeeshan> it definitely helped.
[01:31:16] <pcw_home> like I said, you can probably increase P if you bump up your servo thread rate
[01:31:43] <zeeshan> pcw_home, its not oscillating at the P that it was oscillating at before
[01:32:04] <zeeshan> i went from 100 to 180
[01:32:08] <zeeshan> at 150 before it was oscillating
[01:32:12] <zeeshan> does that make any sense
[01:32:19] <zeeshan> and what should i make my servo thread rate
[01:34:45] <pcw_home> the more the merrier (until you start getting real time errors)
[01:34:52] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/fEb0oVM.png
[01:35:08] <zeeshan> thats at jogging at 50 ipm
[01:35:26] <zeeshan> it looks like it needs more p
[01:35:28] <zeeshan> cause its under damped
[01:36:46] <zeeshan> Kp hasnt helped
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[01:36:52] <zeeshan> that spike is the same magnitude
[01:36:54] <pcw_home> I would say less since its underdamped
[01:37:02] <zeeshan> oh
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[01:37:42] <zeeshan> ok its happy at 120
[01:38:02] <pcw_home> but you may be able to use more if you bump up the thread rate
[01:38:32] <zeeshan> ok going to do that now
[01:39:28] <zeeshan> i really should get a different drive for Z
[01:39:31] <zeeshan> 110A peak!
[01:41:10] <zeeshan> my max jitter is 22000 ns
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[01:42:16] <zeeshan> "max interval" 1,100,000ns
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[01:44:59] <pcw_home> try 2 KHz
[01:46:13] <zeeshan> 500000 ns okay
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[01:49:14] <zeeshan> okay
[01:49:14] <zeeshan> something helped.
[01:49:15] <zeeshan> i changed both the accel to 10in/s^2
[01:49:19] <zeeshan> and servo thread only
[01:49:29] <zeeshan> and its already better at 200 ipm
[01:49:58] <zeeshan> umm
[01:50:00] <zeeshan> at 50 ipm
[01:50:03] <zeeshan> that spike is so little now
[01:50:20] <zeeshan> 0.0007" now.
[01:50:26] <pcw_home> lower accel will help (but it compromises preformance)
[01:50:34] <zeeshan> no
[01:50:36] <zeeshan> i went higher accel..
[01:50:40] <zeeshan> from 7 to 10
[01:50:56] <zeeshan> because i have the current now.
[01:51:23] <pcw_home> yeah you can accel and overcome stiction
[01:52:55] <zeeshan> i tried 200 kp again
[01:52:58] <zeeshan> it still oscillates
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[02:01:42] <zeeshan> i set I to 90
[02:01:45] <zeeshan> and the error is gone?
[02:02:09] <zeeshan> nm
[02:02:10] <zeeshan> fluke.
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[02:04:26] <pcw_home> the threshold of oscillation should be higher
[02:05:02] <zeeshan> pcw_home, what does that spike imply on terms of machining
[02:05:09] <zeeshan> that i cant hold 1 thou tolerance?
[02:07:30] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/CM8ucyI.png
[02:07:50] <zeeshan> thats some jogging around at 61 ipm
[02:08:10] <zeeshan> i dont see a peak error of more than 0.0007
[02:09:04] <pcw_home> probably possible to hold a lot better than .001 in most situations
[02:09:48] <pcw_home> a lot of these errors would be improved with jerk limiting
[02:10:04] <zeeshan> how would you do that?
[02:10:31] <malcom2073> Kick the jerks ass
[02:10:59] <pcw_home> needs linuxcnc TP changes (theres an experimental branch but it still has bugs AFAIK)
[02:11:26] <malcom2073> Is that the new planner stuff?
[02:11:48] <pcw_home> No
[02:13:41] <pcw_home> The new TP is still trapezoidal velocity profiles
[02:13:42] <zeeshan> my y axis
[02:13:42] <pcw_home> (but has more lookahead so better at keeping a constant velocity when you have CAM data that has lots of little segments)
[02:13:43] <zeeshan> runs so smooth..
[02:14:34] <pcw_home> is it the lightest?
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[02:14:51] <zeeshan> nah
[02:14:54] <zeeshan> it moves the whole ram
[02:14:59] <zeeshan> the ram is proly 1000lb
[02:15:20] <pcw_home> maybe thats why...
[02:15:21] <zeeshan> table looks lighter
[02:16:09] <zeeshan> btw whats a good f-error lim to set?
[02:16:17] <zeeshan> and rapid error
[02:16:27] <zeeshan> i have set 0.010 and 0.003
[02:16:31] <zeeshan> dunno if thats too loose
[02:17:01] <pcw_home> its probably ok if its mainly a safety feature
[02:17:08] <zeeshan> okay
[02:17:24] <pcw_home> does your spindle work?
[02:17:50] <zeeshan> yes
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[02:17:59] <zeeshan> just not through modbus yet
[02:18:32] <zeeshan> lemme show you the y Axis.
[02:18:33] <zeeshan> its so nice!
[02:18:44] <pcw_home> do you have any tooling?
[02:19:01] <zeeshan> not yet, im still looking for holders
[02:19:02] <zeeshan> why
[02:19:05] <zeeshan> you wanna see it under load?
[02:19:30] <malcom2073> pcw_home: You mentioned an experimental branch with jerk limited motion control, do you happen to have a link with any info/branch name?
[02:20:09] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2cjdWBH.png
[02:20:34] <zeeshan> 0.0002 error!
[02:20:39] <zeeshan> thats it
[02:26:00] <pcw_home> origin/micges/scurve-test2
[02:26:01] <pcw_home> may be the latest not sure
[02:26:24] <pcw_home> beware of bugs however
[02:27:37] <malcom2073> Cool, thanks
[02:27:48] <malcom2073> Yep, assume it will blow up the world if I run it, got it :)
[02:27:52] <malcom2073> Mainly want to keep an eye on it
[02:29:05] <malcom2073> I'm running screws at high rpm and high acceleration. When I tested a jerk limited motion controller and it was amazingly smooth (and I could move even faster), so I've an interest in that.
[02:29:13] <pcw_home> There was a discussion on IRC about it couple months ago
[02:31:13] <pcw_home> that was the upshot, even though a jerk limited profile is slower at the same acceleration than a trapezoidal profile
[02:31:15] <pcw_home> you can increase acceleration and keep within the same error budget so you gain speed
[02:31:41] <malcom2073> Right, you lose acceleration for short bursts, but gain it in the long run
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[02:32:39] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: are you going to swap it out to steppers now?
[02:32:48] <zeeshan> yea capt
[02:32:52] <pcw_home> you can see form zeeshans plots that there are untunable error spikes with infinite jerk
[02:32:56] <zeeshan> had enough of this
[02:33:16] <zeeshan> im ttrying to adjust gibs.
[02:33:22] <zeeshan> Y is so sweet, this should be too!
[02:33:54] <pcw_home> Just think how many errors your stepper system had (but you were blissfully unaware of)
[02:34:13] <zeeshan> lol
[02:34:52] <pcw_home> having 1u resolution linear scales lets you see all the problems...
[02:35:10] <zeeshan> i want scales on the lathe!
[02:35:48] <zeeshan> pcw_home, if i didnt set my reference gain right for my servo drives
[02:36:01] <zeeshan> so 5v = 32 v instead of 5v=30v
[02:36:05] <zeeshan> would that cause these issues
[02:36:16] <pcw_home> no
[02:36:51] <zeeshan> okay so its position loop issues
[02:36:57] <pcw_home> that would just change your FF1 and P values slightly
[02:37:54] <pcw_home> some of which (position loop issues) are mechanical
[02:38:29] <pcw_home> like the lead screw axial slop
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[03:30:17] * unfy rawrs
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[04:40:15] <zeeshan> should i be using encoder indexing for homing
[04:40:38] <zeeshan> it will help make it more consistent>
[04:40:42] <zeeshan> ?
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[04:53:11] <bobo_> zeeshan: I thought the heidenhain scales had near end of scale referance marks ? axis micro or hall switch were for servo stop
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[05:02:59] <bobo_> zeeshan: I also remember Nick Mueller writing of his need to use Shell Oil products for his way stiction problem .
[05:04:38] <zeeshan> bobo are youserious
[05:04:43] <zeeshan> i gotta look that up.
[05:05:01] <zeeshan> that would be the most accurate way to home
[05:05:11] <zeeshan> im working on modbus right now:)
[05:05:52] <bobo_> looked at your photos of the scales
[05:07:41] <bobo_> thought there was germen words for referance
[05:10:32] <bobo_> but remember I lead you down the wrong rabbit hols about the servo Brake
[05:10:59] <bobo_> hols=hole
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[05:16:42] <zeeshan> =]
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[05:21:58] <bobo_> bobo wonders what =] means ? probably means craw back under his rock and just listen
[05:22:20] <zeeshan_> haha
[05:23:48] <zeeshan_> yay
[05:23:55] <zeeshan_> modbus working for vfd 1 and 2
[05:23:59] <zeeshan_> for hyd and coolant pump
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[05:46:24] <pcw_home> http://dynamicsystems.asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/article.aspx?articleid=1406213
[05:48:45] <pcw_home> just need to learn when and axis has been static for long enough to stick and give it a little thump when starting...
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[05:52:00] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, yes!
[05:52:02] <zeeshan_> that would be cool
[05:52:02] <zeeshan_> lol
[05:52:54] <zeeshan_> do you want that article
[05:52:59] <zeeshan_> i have access to asme
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[05:57:33] <pcw_home> I just thought it was interesting that its a big issue (apparently the correct way oil make a big difference also)
[06:01:07] <Sairon> what's a big issue?
[06:02:20] <pcw_home> stiction
[06:02:43] <Sairon> oh, yeah
[06:02:54] <Sairon> ever read... that one book by the moore's
[06:03:17] <Sairon> hmm
[06:03:38] <Sairon> the folks who made jig grinders
[06:05:23] <Sairon> http://mooretool.com/publications.html
[06:05:36] <Sairon> Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy
[06:05:42] <Sairon> that's the one i was thinking of
[06:06:12] <pcw_home> a machine with linear scales is ideal for showing this error (it would likely not be as apparent and a machine with rotary encoders)
[06:07:17] <pcw_home> since the spring in the drive train would hide some of the error
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[06:08:35] <pcw_home> looks like a classic book...
[06:08:38] <Sairon> i would think
[06:08:49] <Sairon> you'd need a rotary and a linear encoder
[06:08:56] <Sairon> to catch that
[06:10:47] <Sairon> yeah, love that book
[06:10:51] <Sairon> read it a couple times
[06:11:04] <Sairon> worked in tool and die for a little bit
[06:11:24] <Sairon> and there's just something super exciting about +/- 25 or 50 millionths tolerances
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[06:13:00] <pcw_home> I thought it was interesting the they had names for the problems stiction causes: "quadrant glitches"
[06:13:06] <pcw_home> that they
[06:13:24] <Sairon> stiction becomes an issue in contour grinding on cnc controlled jig grinders
[06:15:45] <pcw_home> I wonder if its possibly better to creep along very slowly instead of stopping
[06:15:59] <Sairon> well
[06:16:06] <Sairon> i think if you are worried about stiction
[06:16:14] <Sairon> you're trying to position precisely enough
[06:16:18] <Sairon> that the answer is no
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[06:18:20] <pcw_home> for something like a circle it may depend on how slow you can go before you get metal-metal contact and thats lubricant dependent
[06:18:38] <Sairon> yeah
[06:18:53] <Sairon> tribology is a tricky subject
[06:20:53] <pcw_home> so quadrant glitches (the stiction part anyway) may only appear below a certain speed
[06:21:18] <XXCoder> home safe finally
[06:21:54] <pcw_home> 'nite
[06:24:17] <Sairon> seems reasonable
[06:27:39] <Sairon> i'd love to do machine tool research
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[11:27:58] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[11:30:53] <Loetmichel> grrr... i should have tinkered around before the first Coffee... $me pulls the x-acto knife out of the finger tip... and puts a bandaid on... that was a DEEP cut, it seeps thru the bandaid like crazy :-(
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[12:54:46] <Jymmm> If I get a tank of CO2, wil it come out butt ass cold if I turn it upsidedown?
[12:57:53] <archivist> it comes out cold because of the expansion, not because the thing is one way up or down
[12:58:56] <Jymmm> I was thinking like air dusters when you turn them upside down.
[12:59:18] <Jymmm> but giant economy sized
[12:59:51] <Jymmm> I need -40 primarily,
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[13:35:46] <malcom2073> Jymmm: You're thinking the liquid CO2 will come out, rather than the gas?
[13:36:10] <archivist> in his misguided dreams
[13:36:23] <Jymmm> A smaller version of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0wGRQ0saRQ
[13:36:47] <Jymmm> or this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrveaKp7J9Q
[13:37:15] <malcom2073> That seems like a terrible idea
[13:37:22] <malcom2073> the spraying people at a party thing
[13:38:00] <malcom2073> But I see where you're coming from, but I have no idea if big tanks work that way, how does that thing work?
[13:38:55] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvFyagVegjM
[13:40:04] <archivist> co2 in high percentages kills
[13:40:33] <archivist> expansion reduces temperature, known fact
[13:41:09] <Jymmm> No regulator?
[13:42:06] <archivist> you dont see a regulator on a c02 fire extinguisher
[13:43:28] <Jymmm> I didn't know if it was set/limited like a carb jet.
[13:43:43] <archivist> it is the inverse of gas compression which gets hot
[13:44:48] <Jymmm> I need to control the "cold" to apx 3" diameter
[13:45:31] <Jymmm> at a distance of about 8-12"
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[13:46:43] <archivist> for how long
[13:47:00] <archivist> tanks have a limited qty
[13:47:16] <Jymmm> 5-30 seconds shots at a time
[13:55:50] <Jymmm> This isn't what I'm doing, but this doe look like fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FWQYVBa7DEs#t=276
[13:56:00] <Jymmm> archivist: Think that's "legal" in the UK ?
[13:57:06] <archivist> probably not
[13:57:25] <Jymmm> archivist: Are stun guns?
[13:57:45] <archivist> only for the cops
[13:58:02] <Jymmm> same with tasers?
[13:58:16] <archivist> tasers I mean for the cops
[13:58:44] <Jymmm> and stun guns?
[13:58:57] <archivist> probably not
[13:59:21] <Jymmm> are you guys allowed to defend yourself with anything other than a flyswatter?
[14:00:29] <archivist> you can get a 12bore shotgun license
[14:00:40] <Jymmm> easy to get?
[14:00:49] <archivist> no
[14:00:53] <Jymmm> k
[14:01:33] <archivist> you dont have to shhot someone to defend yourself
[14:02:12] <archivist> you dont get killed in walmart by 2 year olds over here
[14:02:40] <syyl_> benefit of the "old world" ;)
[14:03:15] <Jymmm> archivist: She was a dumbass, proving evolution works =)
[14:03:56] <archivist> so is a large percentage of the gun carrying public
[14:04:28] <Jymmm> Yeah, the redneck mentality I'm afraid to say.
[14:04:34] <archivist> we have reduced the percentage that can kill over here
[14:05:19] <syyl_> there are still enough idiots that could run you over with a 2ton suv ;)
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[14:06:44] <archivist> known as a chelsea tractor, mums taking kids to school in them
[14:06:54] <syyl_> ah
[14:07:03] <syyl_> you need 4wd for that!
[14:11:50] <Sairon> learn something new every day
[14:19:50] <archivist> Sairon, found apdf of that book you mentioned
[14:20:18] <malcom2073> archivist: How did you reduce the percentage of people that can kill, lobotomies? :P
[14:21:16] <archivist> draconian gun laws here
[14:21:31] <moorbo> where's here
[14:21:35] <archivist> uk
[14:21:47] <Loetmichel> *ha* got the stick done... works ;-) ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15565 http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15568 http://youtu.be/LTDYI1BeZFc
[14:21:48] <moorbo> weird, how we have in canada billions of guns
[14:21:54] <malcom2073> You assume that's why you don't have as many people killing each other, in reality its cause you all aren't as stupid as we are :P
[14:22:00] <moorbo> and less than 100 gun related deaths a year.
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[14:22:54] <moorbo> draconian gun laws have little to do with gun related deaths.
[14:23:25] <malcom2073> Education has a lot more to do with it
[14:23:29] <moorbo> yep
[14:23:43] <archivist> nuff said
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
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[14:23:49] <Sairon> archivist: good. Hope you enjoy it as much as I have.
[14:24:24] <malcom2073> archivist: Yes, if you make a weapon harder to get, people will use it less to kill people, doesn't mean they won't kill people as much, and for that: correlation is not causation
[14:25:06] <moorbo> malcom2073: thats not a true statement.
[14:25:35] <moorbo> you're suggesting having an over abundance would make death by said weapon more common
[14:25:38] <archivist> I see canada is 10 times uk
[14:25:45] <Sairon> watching a video about automatic surface grinders
[14:25:49] <Sairon> makes my left arm happy
[14:25:51] <malcom2073> moorbo: no, I suggested the opposite.
[14:26:39] <moorbo> malcom2073: sorry I missed the second part of your sentence
[14:26:59] <archivist> Sairon, schlesinger and his work on testing machine tools was not mentioned in that book which I found a bit odd
[14:27:49] <Sairon> what year was that/
[14:28:26] <archivist> started in the 1930's and got updated till 1980 ish
[14:28:49] <archivist> I have the 8th edition 1982
[14:28:53] <Sairon> in that case, yeah
[14:29:08] <Sairon> At the same time, the Moore's were... hmmm
[14:29:15] <archivist> he escaped to england before the war
[14:29:34] <Sairon> you know they were really writing that book as sort of marketing
[14:29:48] <Sairon> but it comes out being a pretty good book
[14:29:58] <archivist> I realise that, seen similar marketing books from SKF et al
[14:30:26] <Sairon> i'm going to get the schlesinger book
[14:30:29] <Sairon> sounds good
[14:30:38] <archivist> funny thing is it is cheaper to buy new than second hand
[14:30:47] <Sairon> huh
[14:30:50] <archivist> the moore book
[14:31:06] <archivist> http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/foundations-mechanical-accuracy/
[14:31:28] <syyl_ws> that book is awesome!
[14:32:04] <archivist> I got lucky and got the schlesinger book at the right price
[14:32:14] <syyl_ws> i have both only in pdf format :(
[14:32:24] <syyl_ws> i am still looking for the other moore book
[14:32:30] <syyl_ws> that one about hole positioning etc
[14:33:05] <Sairon> holes and contours
[14:33:14] <Sairon> yeah, i've never actually seen it in print
[14:36:02] <archivist> another one to find is Machine tool reconditioning and applications of hand scraping Edward F. Connelly
[14:36:17] <syyl_ws> thats also very nice
[14:36:19] <syyl_ws> :D
[14:36:31] <Sairon> ugh
[14:36:43] <Sairon> I used to be interested in hand scraping
[14:37:00] <Sairon> the one shop i worked at had a guy who's job was to rebuild the machines
[14:37:38] <Sairon> it was pretty much black magic
[14:37:52] <archivist> it also has the measuring etc when rebuilding
[14:38:04] <syyl_ws> hrhr
[14:38:06] <syyl_ws> yeah
[14:38:11] <syyl_ws> scraping a flat surface is easy
[14:38:27] <syyl_ws> align a number of surfaces to each other is another story
[14:39:11] <syyl_ws> did my lathe, drillpress and a few workholding tools
[14:39:33] <syyl_ws> and i always find it interesting how accurate you can get with that simple process
[14:39:44] <archivist> a requirement for any chinese tool
[14:40:02] <syyl_ws> yes :D
[14:40:07] <archivist> even a file can be used reasonably
[14:40:17] <Sairon> they make tools in china?
[14:40:18] <Sairon> :)
[14:40:38] <archivist> they make random shapes
[14:41:08] <Sairon> i understand a lot of things are made in china
[14:41:24] <Sairon> but i still won't conciously allow something made by the communists
[14:41:29] <Sairon> to be brought in to my shop
[14:42:06] <Sairon> i'm sure the chinese people are fine folks
[14:42:20] <Sairon> but until they get themselves a reasonable government
[14:42:28] <Sairon> i can't justify doing business with them
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[15:00:20] * Loetmichel just ate a HUGE bowl of yesterdays "kale with minced pork sausages and smoked pork chop" for Brunch... it DOES get better every time you reheat it ;-) *boarpss*
[15:00:51] <Sairon> hmm
[15:00:53] <Sairon> sausage
[15:01:02] * Sairon goes to make sausages.
[15:03:01] <SpeedEvil> CNC sausages?
[15:03:20] <Sairon> heh
[15:03:48] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: after finsing my joystick project
[15:03:54] <Loetmichel> finishing
[15:04:09] <Loetmichel> which involved milling button caps and holders ;-)
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[15:56:09] <JT-Shop> bah, I can't get the monitor resolution right on the other wheezy computer and it can't find the monitor
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[16:21:51] <cradek> bad cable?
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[16:23:41] <JT-Shop> I tried both the analog and dvi cable and tried a pcie display card as well as the onboard video
[16:23:56] <JT-Shop> I should try a different monitor
[16:24:03] <archivist> yes
[16:24:26] <archivist> is your monitor known to the database
[16:24:43] <JT-Shop> I don't recall if I hand configured the monitor in Ubuntu or not
[16:24:53] <JT-Shop> should be its an Acer
[16:25:38] <JT-Shop> how can you tell?
[16:27:55] <JT-Shop> maybe I can use xrandr to set the resolution
[16:28:08] <archivist> is it choosing the right one too lspci -v | grep VGA
[16:28:44] <archivist> seems some may use the integrated rather than the plugged in card
[16:29:33] <JT-Shop> let me go down there and install xchat
[16:30:39] <archivist> there are some internet resources on this sort of problem
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[16:40:30] <jthornton> logger[mah], log
[16:40:31] <logger[mah]> jthornton: Log stored at
http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2015-01-18.html
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[16:43:39] <pcw_home> sudo get-edid | parse-edid
[16:43:41] <pcw_home> might help
[16:44:01] <jthornton> 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GT218 [GeForce 8400 GS] (rev a2) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
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[16:44:21] <jthornton> looks like that showed the onboard video
[16:44:37] <jthornton> let me see if I can disable that
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[16:58:00] <jthornton> now lspci -v | grep VGA shows two video cards and both are nvidia
[17:01:31] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: i did some review of literature
[17:01:37] <zeeshan|2> how come i dont use D?
[17:01:44] <zeeshan|2> wouldnt that help with sudden spikes
[17:02:13] <zeeshan|2> also like you were saying earlier, i should aim for smaller servo thread
[17:02:19] <zeeshan|2> cause basically that would increase the sampling rate?
[17:02:43] <pcw_home> D effectively is the responsibility of the velocity loop (in the drive)
[17:03:10] <zeeshan|2> what if it is doing a crappy job
[17:03:26] <zeeshan|2> because i only can adjust proportional gain
[17:03:34] <zeeshan|2> for the v drive
[17:05:26] <pcw_home> I think its doing fine but theres spring and stiction in the system (you can see the PID requested velocity ramp faster than the commanded velocity)
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[17:07:11] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/HyUd6DI.png
[17:07:29] <zeeshan|2> that slight bump at the ramp portion of analogout?
[17:07:42] <pcw_home> from what little Ive read, this is always a problem (and not something easily dealt with with tuning)
[17:07:53] <zeeshan|2> i came across an article
[17:08:04] <zeeshan|2> they said they were using FF compensation to completely eliminate it
[17:08:35] <zeeshan|2> friction is a bit annoying
[17:08:42] <pcw_home> except when you apply it and its not sticking
[17:09:04] <pcw_home> and it makes things worse
[17:09:13] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[17:09:28] <zeeshan|2> its like i need to limit it
[17:09:33] <zeeshan|2> based on the rate of acceleration
[17:09:38] <zeeshan|2> like you were saying, based on jerk
[17:10:58] <pcw_home> or assume that there will be stiction if its been at 0 velocity for some time and give it a bang to start (thats the FF solution I think)
[17:11:14] <zeeshan|2> FF0?
[17:11:45] <pcw_home> unfortunately theres no stiction FF in the PID comp
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[17:13:24] <zeeshan|2> http://www.mate.tue.nl/mate/pdfs/11194.pdf
[17:13:33] <zeeshan|2> page 14 really explains it well
[17:13:39] <zeeshan|2> the options that exist to remedy the problem
[17:13:48] <zeeshan|2> interesting!
[17:14:26] <zeeshan|2> you know..
[17:14:44] <zeeshan|2> another way might be adding an encoder onto the motor itself.
[17:14:47] <zeeshan|2> and comparing the signals.
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[17:15:24] <zeeshan|2> nm that wont help. that will try to help with drivetrain issues
[17:15:53] <CaptHindsight> air bearings only stick when you use really really sticky air or turn off the compressor, but it's probably too much work to add them now :)
[17:16:36] <pcw_home> plotting both the commanded and actual velocities and zooming on the start of motion will give you some more info
[17:16:41] <zeeshan|2> honestly. im just gonna cut a circle on this thing
[17:16:47] <archivist> machine off the Vs and gibs add rails and carriages
[17:16:49] <zeeshan|2> take it to school measure it
[17:16:53] <zeeshan|2> and see if this stiction thing is a big deal or not
[17:17:03] <zeeshan|2> like you said, most people wouldnt pick this up without scales
[17:17:44] <zeeshan|2> archivist: i tried your theory too
[17:17:55] <zeeshan|2> i completely loosened the gib so it was free moving
[17:18:11] <archivist> I get a lot of stiction because of unbalanced weight on the slides
[17:18:14] <zeeshan|2> it didnt effect the striction much
[17:18:20] <zeeshan|2> maybe 2 tenths
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[17:19:59] <zeeshan|2> archivist: similar trace pattern like mine?
[17:20:26] <archivist> trace pattern !.... stepper stalls
[17:20:31] <pcw_home> I wonder if a simple kludge would help, like adding a step in velocity at startup from 0 (or close to 0 velocity) until motion is noticed from the scales
[17:21:11] <archivist> like pretend it has some backlash
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[17:21:49] <pcw_home> this would still store unwanted energy in the axis mechanics but it would be applied instantly, not gradually like the feedback term
[17:22:23] <pcw_home> (a big bang for a short time)
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[17:24:07] <zeeshan|2> gonna try different oil too.
[17:24:30] <zeeshan|2> correct me if im wrong
[17:24:32] <Tom_itx> you might notice a dimple at the circle quadrants is all
[17:24:58] <zeeshan|2> but physically this means: the kinetic friction is siginficantly different from the static friction
[17:25:23] <zeeshan|2> so if i find a fluid that has similar coefficient of frictions in both states , it should help
[17:25:38] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: if theyre in the tenths , not a big deal
[17:25:49] <zeeshan|2> but if its going to be in the .0015 range, that is a big deal :P
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[17:26:02] <Tom_itx> check it on a cmm
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[17:26:07] <zeeshan|2> yes
[17:26:09] <Tom_itx> it'll look horrible
[17:26:19] <zeeshan|2> ill put a probe on it and measure the circularity
[17:26:32] <zeeshan|2> or i might just do it simply under a microscope
[17:26:36] <zeeshan|2> if i cant get access to cmm
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[17:32:02] <pcw_home> the trick with stiction is never stop moving :-)
[17:32:44] <Jymmmm> ... OR YOU WILL DIE!!!
[17:32:52] <zeeshan|2> haha pcw_home
[17:32:58] <zeeshan|2> reversing direction brings it up too though!
[17:33:04] <Jymmmm> oh, um, wrong movie... nevermind.
[17:33:06] <zeeshan|2> you need to stop moving at some point :P
[17:33:44] <pcw_home> well not so long that the oil flows out
[17:33:53] <Tom_itx> mmm beat me to it!
[17:34:03] <Jymmmm> "Speed (1984)"
[17:34:36] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: now i think my Y axis is lighter.
[17:34:39] <zeeshan|2> the ram that is.
[17:34:48] <zeeshan|2> because it has no stiction issues
[17:34:55] <zeeshan|2> only Z and X do and theyre both related to table
[17:34:56] <Jymmmm> zeeshan|2: Lighter? Like Michael Jackson?
[17:35:05] <zeeshan|2> Jymmmm: hi master troll! :P
[17:35:35] <Jymmmm> zeeshan|2: Please know the difference between trolling and smartassery.
[17:35:44] <zeeshan|2> trolls are usually very smart
[17:36:11] <Jymmmm> Just answer the question... Like MJ?
[17:36:14] <zeeshan|2> he art of deliberately, cleverly, and secretly pissing people off, usually via the internet, using dialogue.
[17:36:19] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[17:36:40] <Jymmmm> zeeshan|2: But I'm not trying to piss anyone off, that was my point.
[17:36:55] <zeeshan|2> i'm kiddin around
[17:37:07] <Jymmmm> I know, just sayin is all.
[17:37:38] <Tom_itx> i can count on Jymmmm to keep my connection from timing out from inactivity.
[17:37:54] Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[17:37:54] <zeeshan|2> hahah
[17:38:21] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Um, um, um, ah fuck it... youre welcome!
[17:38:58] <zeeshan|2> http://www.expertune.com/articles/RuelNov2000/stiction.html]
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[17:41:59] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: how do they fix the ends of the ballscrews on your mill?
[17:42:09] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: depends on axis
[17:42:13] <archivist> does your lube have any EP additive
[17:42:21] <zeeshan|2> Z and Y are fixed on both ends
[17:43:18] <zeeshan|2> im using mobil vactra oil #1
[17:43:20] <zeeshan|2> im using mobil vactra oil #2
[17:43:20] <zeeshan|2> i mean
[17:43:48] <Tom_itx> iirc that's what we used
[17:44:26] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/main-types894.jpg like the bottom drawing?
[17:44:37] <zeeshan|2> no
[17:44:44] <zeeshan|2> Z and Y are like the 3rd one
[17:44:51] <zeeshan|2> X is like the first one
[17:45:21] <archivist> may need to go up to the vactra 3 or 4
[17:45:39] <zeeshan|2> archivist: i wish they posted u_s and u_k for these
[17:45:59] <archivist> more viscosity to stop it being squeezed out
[17:46:24] <zeeshan|2> once i get my lube pump line replaced
[17:46:41] <zeeshan|2> im gonna try turning on the lube pump for 30 seconds and jog the axes
[17:46:54] <archivist> are you running unpumped!
[17:47:03] <zeeshan|2> and see if that helps. it might be getting wiped out currently cause im manually lubing the ways
[17:47:08] <zeeshan|2> with a squirt can
[17:47:33] <archivist> get the pump running may fix everything
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[17:47:59] <zeeshan|2> if it does, i am going to be an avid supporter of LUBE
[17:48:00] <Tom_itx> yeah, tune your system then add oil...
[17:48:12] <archivist> would you run your car engine without oil pressure
[17:48:14] <CaptHindsight> you could profile the break away torque required over the travel of the axis, and then provide the appropriate spike when starting motion
[17:48:24] <zeeshan|2> archivist: no, but this is an interval thing anyway
[17:48:28] <zeeshan|2> its supposed to lube every 15 min
[17:48:36] <archivist> ah ok
[17:49:02] <archivist> but is it pressurizing the oil
[17:49:05] <Tom_itx> make sure you prime the capilaries when you replace the line to get rid of the air
[17:49:28] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i was planning to run the pump for a while
[17:49:31] <zeeshan|2> to push the air out
[17:49:36] <_methods> yeah man those older mills used to just pump tons of way oil
[17:50:16] <_methods> you didnt have the way oil pumps running?
[17:50:27] <zeeshan|2> no
[17:50:36] <zeeshan|2> i manually lubed
[17:50:44] <Tom_itx> careful you might throw a rod
[17:50:52] <zeeshan|2> gimme a break
[17:50:52] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:51:05] <CaptHindsight> spin a linear bearing
[17:51:22] <zeeshan|2> what is sunday
[17:51:25] <zeeshan|2> the annual smart ass day? :-)
[17:51:31] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[17:51:41] <zeeshan|2> weekly. not annual!
[17:51:46] <Tom_itx> we're just here to help
[17:51:54] <zeeshan|2> you guys should be mechanics
[17:52:00] <Tom_itx> i was once
[17:52:06] <zeeshan|2> really? :D
[17:52:19] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: jack of all trades
[17:52:20] <archivist> I once did factory maintenance
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[17:53:08] <Tom_itx> i couldn't count how many VW engines i rebuilt... in n out in a day
[17:54:48] <zeeshan|2> yay this manual mill guy is here to pick it up
[17:54:51] <zeeshan|2> finally more SPACE
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[17:55:26] <archivist> we use a steam oil for the beam bearings, 27 tones on two plain bearings
[17:56:38] <Jymmm> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/04/german-shepherd-sings-with-owner_n_6250392.html
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[17:57:45] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Now, THATS trolling =)
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[18:05:42] <jthornton> The Nvidia driver is not yet configured; it needs to be enabled in xorg.conf before it can be used.
[18:05:42] <jthornton> Please see the package documentation for instructions.
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[19:30:45] <mrsun> these olinuxino boards ... are stuff like that usable to run cnc machines? =)
[19:31:00] <mrsun> thinking it got tons of GPIO etc .. question is how fast those are =)
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[19:32:44] <mrsun> would be neat as built in computers for cnc as they are very smal =)
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[19:43:03] <Rab> mrsun, looks like Xenomai has been ported to the A13 CPU in the olinuxino, so that's a start. A dedicated individual could probably get Machinekit running. But, no telling what RT performance might be. If you want something cheap, small, and usable now, you might want to look at Machinekit on the BeagleBone Black instead.
[19:45:38] <zeeshan> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.6
[19:45:42] <zeeshan> after i followed these steps
[19:45:57] <zeeshan> i can no longer download packages like openssh-server
[19:48:38] <zeeshan> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[19:48:38] <zeeshan> openssh-server: Depends: openssh-client (= 1:5.3p1-3ubuntu3) but 1:5.3p1-3ubuntu7 is to be installed
[19:48:38] <zeeshan> E: Broken packages
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[19:51:22] <zeeshan> nm
[19:51:23] <zeeshan> fixed
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[20:12:13] <mrsun> i wonder if a 400mA adapter is enough to drive my breakout board and stepper drivers logic
[20:13:21] <mrsun> 10 - 15mA per signal .. 3 drives so a maximum of 150mA .. then the rest to drive the breakout board and its sinks etc
[20:15:17] <zeeshan|2> for mesa?
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[20:15:37] <mrsun> zeeshan: nah this is for my old drive system
[20:15:45] <mrsun> had cables from the PC before for the 5V for breakout board
[20:15:58] <mrsun> but dont want that and i have a 5V 350mA adapter laying around
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[20:24:16] <CaptHindsight> mrsun: how many IO, unless you have >100 you should be fine
[20:25:10] <mrsun> capricorn_1: its just 3 for each driver and then some homeswitches etc
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[20:25:34] <mrsun> CaptHindsight:
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[20:44:19] * jthornton is beginning to hate nvidia
[20:45:10] <skunkworks> I have had a lot better luck with amd/ati...
[20:45:51] <jthornton> all I have handy is the onboard nvidia and a pcie nvidia...
[20:46:37] <evilren> okay so when i started building computers, amd procs, nvidia cards
[20:46:38] <jthornton> when I try and use the drivers X won't start
[20:46:49] <evilren> now im like, intel procs, ati cards
[20:46:51] <jthornton> on wheezy
[20:46:57] <evilren> still somehow amd wins
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[20:51:57] <zeeshan|2> noveau drivers?
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[20:52:25] <jthornton> I'm trying to install the nvidia drivers so I can get the correct screen resolution
[20:52:43] <zeeshan|2> nouvea should be able to do that for you
[20:52:58] <zeeshan|2> noveau
[20:53:04] <zeeshan|2> er........! nouveau
[20:53:09] <jthornton> is that the stock driver in wheezy
[20:53:14] <zeeshan|2> should be
[20:53:24] <zeeshan|2> when you do lspci -vv
[20:53:55] <zeeshan|2> kernerl driver in use: nouveau
[20:53:56] <zeeshan|2> ?
[20:54:20] <jthornton> Kernel driver in use: ohci_hcd
[20:54:24] <zeeshan|2> aw damn
[20:54:45] <jthornton> oh wait there are several kernel drivers
[20:54:54] <zeeshan|2> that is a usb driver :P
[20:56:32] <jthornton> http://pastebin.com/yQx4P6gz
[20:56:41] <jthornton> I can hardly read the terminal
[20:57:34] <jthornton> NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6150SE is the video
[20:57:52] <mrsun> yes
[20:57:59] <mrsun> VGA controller
[20:58:35] <zeeshan|2> hm
[20:58:40] <zeeshan|2> looks like you have no driver for it
[20:58:54] <zeeshan|2> can you do apt-get install nouveau?
[20:59:19] <mrsun> what hapends ?
[20:59:23] <mrsun> x goes into vga mode ?
[20:59:30] <zeeshan|2> it must be in vesa prolly
[20:59:30] <mrsun> ahh x doesnt start P
[20:59:47] <zeeshan|2> after you do apt-get that line..
[20:59:50] <mrsun> jthornton: do you have a /etc/xorg.conf or similiar?
[20:59:54] <zeeshan|2> repaste lspci -vv again plz
[21:00:05] <jthornton> E: Unable to locate package nouveau
[21:00:11] <zeeshan|2> apt-get update
[21:00:26] <mrsun> find /etc -iname xorg.conf
[21:00:34] <jthornton> when I add xorg.conf file it won't boot much past picking the kernel
[21:00:37] <zeeshan|2> whoops
[21:00:42] <zeeshan|2> sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
[21:01:03] <jthornton> that is installed, I just looked
[21:01:07] <zeeshan|2> okay
[21:01:13] <zeeshan|2> nano xorg.conf
[21:01:25] <mrsun> jthornton: do you have the nvidia blob also installed ?
[21:01:34] <zeeshan|2> and make sure under "Devices" it says Identifier "nvidia"
[21:01:43] <zeeshan|2> and next line Driver "nouveau"
[21:01:54] <mrsun> jthornton: paste /var/log/Xorg.0.log =)
[21:02:10] <jthornton> I had to delete the xorg.conf file to get back here
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[21:02:30] <mrsun> jthornton: try and start X then paste the log file to pastebin or something
[21:02:34] <jthornton> not sure what a nvidia blob is
[21:02:43] <jthornton> I have the nvidia drivers installed
[21:02:43] <mrsun> jthornton: nvidias properiery drivers
[21:03:00] <jthornton> https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver
[21:03:18] <jthornton> says I need the legacy drivers for my video
[21:03:18] <mrsun> jthornton: can you paste your xorg. log?
[21:03:40] <mrsun> jthornton: nvidias legacy drivers are dodgy at best imo =)
[21:04:04] <mrsun> and if they are installed they get loaded before noveau or whatever .. uninstall the properiery driver and restart =)
[21:04:29] <jthornton> where is my xorg log?
[21:04:36] <mrsun> the legacy driver . .atleast on ubuntu etc only works with very specefic kernel versions etc
[21:04:47] <mrsun> jthornton: /var/log/Xorg.0.log it should be
[21:04:50] <mrsun> or something similiar =)
[21:06:06] <jthornton> http://pastebin.com/1zVMzFfh
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[21:07:15] <jthornton> I'm stuck in spam guard and the code won't work
[21:07:32] <jthornton> anyway thanks for the help, I have to take of now for a while
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[21:15:09] <zeeshan|2> anyone know if you can talk over rtu mode
[21:15:15] <zeeshan|2> and ascii mode over the same modbus network
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[22:55:53] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, if i'm moving inputs that were tied directly to the fpga board i'll probably have to invert the signal going to the 7i84 right?
[22:57:02] <Tom_itx> the 7i84 has pulldowns on the inputs so limits running to GND likely won't work now...
[22:57:39] <Tom_itx> gonna try some rewiring tonight i think
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[23:02:07] <Deejay> gn8
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