#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-17

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[00:04:50] <furrywolf> one of the staff claimed they were going to set up an electronics workbench where kids could come in and build random stuff on breadboards for free... back when I was a kid, that would have been great.
[00:04:54] <malcom2073> Too little, too late
[00:06:32] <furrywolf> I still want to open a hackerspace (although under a less stupid name) one of these days.
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[00:07:51] <malcom2073> Me too! I have a polebarn that would be perfect if I get a concrete floor and heat/cool it, I plan on having my mill and router out there eventually (let them use the router, not the mill haha)
[00:08:47] <furrywolf> space, money, and time are why mine isn't happening. heh.
[00:08:52] <furrywolf> space here is stupidly expensive.
[00:09:49] <malcom2073> Ah, I live in the middle of nowhere, so space is cheap
[00:10:08] <malcom2073> But close enough that I might get some people to come by
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[00:20:45] <bobo_> malcom2073: about what is (rough) going $ amount fo say 8 acres of buildable land ?
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[00:22:29] <malcom2073> bobo_: Buildable? It doesn't, but you can buy a farm an apply for permits, 40 acre next door to me just sold for $350k with a house and a bunch of barns on the land
[00:24:06] <bobo_> thanks just wondered
[00:24:06] <malcom2073> Sorry, by buildable you mean flat, or zoned for building? Most of the farmland is relativly flat.
[00:27:37] <bobo_> buildable = not on vertical cliff------not bottom of flood area -----beyond the you will build our wy or it's the hiway
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[00:44:42] <furrywolf> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/16/watch_spacexs_falcon_crash_land_on_floating_barge_after_fluidic_fail/ oops
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[00:45:28] <furrywolf> that they even got it on the barge at a reasonable velocity is impressive... but not quite at the right angle. heh.
[00:46:03] <_methods> horseshoes hand grenades
[00:46:21] <_methods> relanding rockets?
[00:46:26] <furrywolf> yep
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[00:47:58] <furrywolf> "rapid unscheduled disassembly" I shall need to use that term in the future.
[00:52:59] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1pvUlQgYtk#t=18 this is not CNC
[00:53:09] <SpeedEvil> How the japanese roll their joints.
[00:54:16] <furrywolf> bbl
[00:55:32] <SpeedEvil> (awesome woodwork joints in construction - thinking about the kinematics is _important_ in both this and CNC
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[01:31:42] <bobo_> PetefromTn: #40 for the Seiko watch thing http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185104
[01:33:55] Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[01:34:02] MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[01:35:09] <PetefromTn_> that about sums things up nicely...
[01:35:10] <SpeedEvil> Actually - no - I take that back - it's quite on topic
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[01:35:20] <bobo_> poor Nick
[01:35:24] <SpeedEvil> I want a CNC wood-morticer
[01:38:14] <bobo_> et
[01:39:55] <bobo_> PetefromTn: any thing new on Mills tool changer ?
[01:40:20] <PetefromTn_> yup its so new that it has not even been born yet heh
[01:40:29] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately
[01:41:03] <PetefromTn_> right now while I would LOVE to have it working I would actually rather get imperial dimensions working so I can use the cutter comp or at least start playing with it.
[01:43:11] <bobo_> born or re-born why not a nother hard drive for proof of concept say . later use on lathe
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[01:44:10] <PetefromTn_> yeah I considered that. I am expecting a paycheck from the part time place hopefully tomorrow and I will be trying to buy the spindle motor and if there is enough maybe get the ballscrew ordered.
[01:44:35] <PetefromTn_> Then I wanted to start getting the PC put together for it. Looking at that J1900 board or whatever PCW was recommending.
[01:45:40] <PetefromTn_> the toolchanger on the lathe is a ways off.
[01:46:07] <PetefromTn_> I wish I had the basic machine working right now I actually have had several lathe oriented parts requests lately and it is killing me not being able to take care of them.
[01:49:49] <bobo_> I thought the mill had a tool changer but was not programed into linuxcnc yet ?
[01:50:04] <PetefromTn_> yup it does and it doesn't yet
[01:50:49] <PetefromTn_> it has a 20 tool carousel style toolchanger
[01:51:29] <bobo_> great
[01:52:24] <PetefromTn_> we actually have everything integrated into the control all the switches and motors and whatnot just have to get orient working before we can try the thing out.
[01:56:57] <bobo_> was wondering about a soft tool holder ,used for first change try-out
[01:56:58] <Tom_itx> i was thinking about orient the other day...
[01:57:33] <Tom_itx> you want the spindle to stop in the same spot every time right?
[01:57:44] <bobo_> yep
[01:57:48] <PetefromTn_> well yeah
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[01:58:14] <Tom_itx> what about a modified M6?
[01:58:17] <PetefromTn_> the spindle encoder seems to be working beautifully. I rigid tapped a shitload of holes the other day..
[02:00:43] <cradek> whee!
[02:00:52] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[02:01:02] <cradek> oh I just like to hear that
[02:01:19] <PetefromTn_> you been smokin' the peace pipe?
[02:01:29] <cradek> I wrote rigid tapping one day in like 2007
[02:01:38] <cradek> and it brings us all so much joy :-)
[02:01:48] <PetefromTn_> it sure brought me some joy the other day man..
[02:01:50] <Tom_itx> good you did
[02:02:04] <PetefromTn_> watching the machine do all that work was a thing of beauty to behold hehe
[02:02:12] <cradek> I'm not drunk but I am working on it a bit
[02:02:36] <PetefromTn_> I started off doing it kinda shallow but after a few realized it was a piece of cake and was running it like .625 deep...
[02:02:44] <cradek> spiral point?
[02:02:47] <PetefromTn_> Kinda want to try a rigid peck tap
[02:02:47] <Tom_itx> what i had in mind for the M6 was when it's called it also calls a sub that moves the spindle at a very slow rate and stops at the index pulse then the M6 is complete
[02:02:51] <PetefromTn_> spiral flute
[02:03:03] <cradek> ahh those aren't as great but they're still pretty great
[02:03:32] <PetefromTn_> why do you say that they exacuate the chips nicely whereas the spiral point push the chips down usually.
[02:03:36] <Tom_itx> so after the previous spindle rate was done, it slows until the index is reached then stops. then the previous S word is restored or changed to the new tool S value
[02:04:20] <cradek> yeah it's just that they're not as strong, but if your holes don't go through it's the only choice
[02:05:01] <PetefromTn_> this one is a 3 flute morse tap spiral flute. It has tapped a ton of holes for me without problems..
[02:05:02] <cradek> Tom_itx: why do you want orient when you turn off the spindle?
[02:05:40] <Tom_itx> i'm thinking of a way to orient the spindle for his tool changer
[02:05:50] <PetefromTn_> I am not sure I understand the idea
[02:06:03] <Tom_itx> i haven't looked into it alot but was thinking about it the other day
[02:06:12] <Tom_itx> been too busy fixing my own junk
[02:06:15] <cradek> I'm sure glad my vmc has a mechanical orient
[02:06:31] <Tom_itx> it can't be that hard to do
[02:06:32] <PetefromTn_> the issue we are having is that the Hitachi VFD right now is setup with modbus control
[02:06:44] <Tom_itx> it has a brake though
[02:06:56] <PetefromTn_> what does
[02:07:03] <Tom_itx> your vfd
[02:07:09] <PetefromTn_> I dunno..
[02:07:24] <PetefromTn_> it is the WJ200-110LF
[02:08:27] <PetefromTn_> we have the feeback configured and working since the rigid tapping is working not sure where to begin to get it to electronically orient. I suppose it is some kinda PID setup..
[02:09:45] <unfy> they still haven't shipped my scope.
[02:09:54] <unfy> chinese bastards starting to piss me off ._.
[02:10:47] <PetefromTn_> I actually called Standard Modern in Canada today to ask them about the spindle motor that came in my lathe.
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[02:11:08] <bobo_> PID ------Pete's inspired developement /
[02:11:17] <unfy> heh
[02:11:19] <PetefromTn_> They said the guy I needed to talk to was out to lunch so they took my info and told me he would call me when he got back in
[02:11:41] <PetefromTn_> never heard from em...
[02:12:09] <PetefromTn_> Pete's inability to decifer what the hell to do with his machinery LOL
[02:12:15] <bobo_> bot-u -lisim
[02:13:11] <bobo_> no more lunch for him
[02:13:21] <PetefromTn_> just ate hehe
[02:14:03] <bobo_> no the canadian guy
[02:14:11] <PetefromTn_> oh
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[02:16:48] <bobo_> Pete does Micro Center stock that board that PCW refered to ?
[02:17:09] <PetefromTn_> not sure.. I think it was newegg or something..
[02:18:19] <bobo_> yes but newegg i thought was on-line only
[02:18:54] <PetefromTn_> whats wrong with that?
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[02:19:27] <PetefromTn_> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157494&cm_re=J1900-_-13-157-494-_-Product not sure exactly but that looks like the one.
[02:20:33] <bobo_> would rather use phone
[02:21:44] <PetefromTn_> (800) 390-1119
[02:22:02] <bobo_> thanks
[02:32:37] <bobo_> Pete does your home have an electronic air cleaner/filter ? was thinking about conners mold deal
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[02:33:05] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Haas-VF2SS-CNC-Vertical-Machining-Center-Low-Low-Hours-/181642372411?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276 At it can all be yours for the LOW LOW price of...hehe
[02:33:26] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean?
[02:33:32] <unfy> low low hours for low low price!
[02:33:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah man and it has probing too..
[02:33:55] * unfy gets wet
[02:33:59] <unfy> probing :3
[02:34:02] <PetefromTn_> thats the super speed model
[02:34:54] <PetefromTn_> side mount toolchanger
[02:35:00] <PetefromTn_> spindle and tool probes
[02:35:19] <PetefromTn_> 12kRPM spindle cartridge.
[02:35:45] <PetefromTn_> nice machine for the price really..
[02:36:15] <PetefromTn_> but they probably have more money in that tool probe than I have in my entire machine hehe
[02:37:13] <bobo_> the older electronic air clearners also made small amount of ozone . ozone stops most mold
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[02:38:06] <PetefromTn_> well when I tore apart my ducting and air conditioning system to install the brand new unit in our home recently everything looked good. There was no mold or moisture anywhere and the ducting looked relatively clean inside
[02:38:51] <PetefromTn_> there is an option for a infa red air cleaner you can install in the ducting before the unit if you want but I was not able to swing it with the overall cost of the machine.
[02:40:22] <bobo_> could you UV ? IR just heats
[02:40:43] <PetefromTn_> actually I don't remember maybe it was UV
[02:41:30] <PetefromTn_> it was a module they offered for install just inside the input of the unit.
[02:41:45] <PetefromTn_> so far knock on wood the new unit is working beautifully.
[02:42:18] <bobo_> UV floresent bulbs are not high dollar
[02:44:53] <bobo_> mold doesent enjoy UV either
[02:47:05] <SpeedEvil> 30hp - that'smore than my car.
[02:49:24] <PetefromTn_> yeah but it's HAAS Power hehe
[02:49:36] <PetefromTn_> supposedly it is not really that much
[02:49:56] <PetefromTn_> besides WTF kind of car do you drive with less than 30HP?
[02:50:45] <malcom2073> gokart?
[02:51:01] <bobo_> could have furry ride it east save on shipping
[02:51:46] <zeeshan> pcw_home: THANK YOU
[02:51:50] <zeeshan> for reminding me to set ferror.
[02:51:52] <zeeshan> i TOTALLY forgot.
[02:52:56] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: after tuning this servo stuff
[02:53:09] <zeeshan> i don't see why you can't hook up an encoder to your drive
[02:53:10] <zeeshan> and tune it
[02:53:19] <zeeshan> the vfd that is
[02:53:26] <zeeshan> i know with induction motors there is slip
[02:53:35] <zeeshan> do you need to be dead on to get orient to work
[02:53:43] <zeeshan> or +/- 30 thou is ok
[02:54:16] <PetefromTn_> not sure really...as tight as possible of course
[02:54:37] <zeeshan> how many tools can your tool changer hold
[02:55:17] <PetefromTn_> 20
[02:55:24] <zeeshan> nice!
[02:55:32] <PetefromTn_> or 21 can't remember
[02:55:36] <zeeshan> that would be SWEEt if you got that running
[02:55:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah it sure as hell will be
[02:55:55] <zeeshan> hey, how do you set your tool heights right now
[02:55:58] <zeeshan> do you have a toolsetter?
[02:57:20] <PetefromTn_> no right now I set G59.3 to be the right rear corner of the mill tables travel... then I goto that with MDI G59.3 G0 X0 Y0 and then load the tool... Then I jog down with the MPG and touch off atop a 123 block on the table top.. then touch off that tool to the tool table.
[02:58:11] <PetefromTn_> I am doing it that way because when I get the table mounted tool probe built I will be basically doing the same thing only electronically.
[02:58:55] <PetefromTn_> http://art.sfglobe.com/2015/01/14/ix3/?src=share_fb_new_32233 For you 3d printer guys..
[02:59:01] * zeeshan had to look up g59.3
[02:59:39] <zeeshan> do you use the paper trick?
[02:59:48] <zeeshan> do you actually touch the 123 block
[02:59:53] <PetefromTn_> no just touch off on the 123
[03:00:08] <PetefromTn_> jog down until the 123 will not go underneath it..
[03:00:16] <zeeshan> ah okay
[03:00:22] <PetefromTn_> then set steps to .0001 and jog up until it does just slide under
[03:00:30] <zeeshan> that works
[03:00:38] <PetefromTn_> that way you don't crash
[03:00:42] <PetefromTn_> and break tools etc.
[03:00:50] <zeeshan> your goal is to have the tool setter linked with linuxcnc
[03:00:55] <zeeshan> so it automatically sets the tool height?
[03:01:19] <PetefromTn_> I touch off on top of the workpiece with the first tool using a ground round rod that is .625" diameter the same basic way...
[03:01:26] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is the ultimate goal..
[03:01:42] <zeeshan> i like
[03:01:46] <PetefromTn_> basically what I want is for my machine to perform as much like that HAAS with probing I just posted.
[03:01:51] <PetefromTn_> as I possibly can..
[03:02:04] <zeeshan> dude
[03:02:08] <zeeshan> it's so nice to not have to think.
[03:02:15] <zeeshan> when you get that stuff setup
[03:02:19] <zeeshan> its pretty much click and go.
[03:02:35] <zeeshan> sometimes its a bit frustrating having to jog the tool and setup
[03:02:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah it sure is nice.. two of the shops I worked in had both spindle probing and tool probing..
[03:02:43] <zeeshan> ever since i setup home switches on the lathe
[03:02:46] <zeeshan> its made life so much easier
[03:02:54] <zeeshan> best suggest ssi could have made!
[03:03:00] <PetefromTn_> Oh hell yeah you gotta have homing..
[03:03:16] <zeeshan> i can see homing being a big deal in the mill too
[03:03:17] <zeeshan> for Z height
[03:03:18] <PetefromTn_> good home switches make everything work nicely..
[03:03:57] <zeeshan> actually even for x and y.
[03:04:07] <PetefromTn_> of course
[03:04:21] <PetefromTn_> that is how you get repeatable fixture offsets basically
[03:04:32] <zeeshan> yes
[03:04:35] <zeeshan> i was thinking of 1 part
[03:04:54] <zeeshan> but its definitely needed for fixturing
[03:05:03] <zeeshan> i need to get this damn mill running
[03:05:11] <zeeshan> i have a request for something to be made
[03:05:13] <zeeshan> for $
[03:05:39] <PetefromTn_> honestly when you see how the HAAS probing pages work it would be really complicted to get that sort of automation in linuxCNC. I am sure it could be done but it is fairly complex...
[03:05:44] <PetefromTn_> nice.
[03:05:52] <PetefromTn_> there are lots of cool things you can make...
[03:06:08] <zeeshan> first project might be making an adapter plate for a LSA supercharger to fit a LQ9
[03:06:18] <PetefromTn_> I got a request from a guy in Italy today for one of my products and another request from a former customer in France....LOL
[03:06:35] <zeeshan> hehe
[03:06:40] <zeeshan> you make great stuff
[03:06:48] <PetefromTn_> I try to..
[03:06:54] <zeeshan> always shiny :)
[03:07:02] <PetefromTn_> wish It was shinier...
[03:07:24] <PetefromTn_> I need to get my hands on that facemill they are using and the type of inserts... that bitch is amazing..
[03:07:33] <zeeshan> im taking a "Advanced Machinining Processes" class right now
[03:07:37] <zeeshan> learning stuff i didnt know
[03:07:57] <PetefromTn_> good you can feel free to divulge your daily learnings here..
[03:08:06] <zeeshan> i learned something new first day of class
[03:08:09] <zeeshan> about surface finish
[03:08:21] <zeeshan> its hard to explain over irc without a diagram
[03:08:30] <zeeshan> without even considering depth of cut
[03:08:40] <zeeshan> i did not know this.
[03:08:53] <zeeshan> the edge cutting radius limits whether you're cutting or ploughing
[03:09:03] <zeeshan> not the nose radius, edge cutting radius
[03:09:28] <PetefromTn_> for full doc engagement or what?
[03:09:36] <zeeshan> not the nose radius
[03:09:39] <zeeshan> edge radius
[03:09:41] <zeeshan> lemme see if i can find a pic
[03:10:17] <PetefromTn_> K
[03:10:22] <zeeshan> http://www.shop-apt.co.uk/user/products/large/CNMA-120408-CBN-300-TURNING-INSERT.jpg
[03:10:30] <zeeshan> okay you see the nose?
[03:10:48] <PetefromTn_> left side..
[03:10:51] <zeeshan> yea
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[03:10:54] <zeeshan> its almost like a chamfer
[03:11:00] <PetefromTn_> sure
[03:11:14] <zeeshan> for cutting youre limited to 15 - 35 um minimum
[03:11:37] <zeeshan> that means you need to cut more than 35 um to cut
[03:11:40] <zeeshan> otherwise you plough
[03:11:45] <zeeshan> which means you plastically deform the material
[03:12:00] <zeeshan> 0.0013"
[03:12:35] <zeeshan> this number ends up in turning
[03:12:40] <zeeshan> being your minimum feed / rev
[03:12:47] <Jymmm> I found a 4" cast iron skillet, but not sure what to do with it.
[03:12:52] <zeeshan> Jymmm: give it to me
[03:12:55] <zeeshan> so i can make a steak on it
[03:12:57] <zeeshan> reverse sear
[03:13:02] <PetefromTn_> oh you are talking lathe ops here?
[03:13:03] <Jymmm> 4" ?
[03:13:12] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: no it applies to all cutting processes
[03:13:18] <zeeshan> lathe is just a bit easier to visualize
[03:13:21] <zeeshan> since you have 1 tooth
[03:13:25] <Jymmm> zeeshan: 4" ?
[03:13:31] <zeeshan> Jymmm: i like tiny steaks!
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[03:14:02] <PetefromTn_> well I have to go take care of something might be back later...
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[03:14:08] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Not useful for that, maybe AN egg, or cornbread is all I can really think of
[03:14:09] <zeeshan> im gonna wire up Z
[03:14:20] <zeeshan> Jymmm: maybe even cooking a burger patty
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[03:14:39] <Jymmm> zwI onl have one of them though
[03:15:01] <Jymmm> zeeshan: I only have one 4" pan. I'd use my 8 or 12" for that
[03:15:22] <zeeshan> Jymmm: i like that its 4"
[03:15:24] <zeeshan> faster to heat up
[03:15:42] <Jymmm> Not that much faster than 8" pan
[03:15:49] <zeeshan> =]
[03:16:06] <Jymmm> If I had like 4 of them, sure I could bake breads in them
[03:16:18] <Jymmm> small desserts
[03:16:29] <Jymmm> individualized even, but not just ONE
[03:17:28] <Jymmm> maybe I could cook two eggs in it. I'll have to season it first and the way I season pans take s a while
[03:17:42] <bobo_> humming bid steaks
[03:17:58] <bobo_> bird
[03:18:32] <Jymmm> ???
[03:18:57] <bobo_> humming bird steak
[03:19:06] <Jymmm> ???
[03:19:40] <Jymmm> is that a real thing?
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[03:20:08] <bobo_> no
[03:25:24] <bobo_> sorry Jymmm was bad 4"" fry pan use joke
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[03:29:58] <Jymmm> bobo_: Just thought is was some kind of dishes/recipe I wasn't aware of.
[03:31:55] <Jymmm> Like Yorkshire Pudding,
[03:33:26] <bobo_> are you in the UK ?
[03:34:40] <Jymmm> Nope
[03:34:50] <Jymmm> wrong side of the pond
[03:35:13] <bobo_> so am i
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[03:45:45] <furrywolf> well, just did my good deed for the day.
[03:47:42] <furrywolf> was at radio shack getting a headphones plug, when some tweaker comes in, and starts browsing. I figure after about half a second that he's there to steal something, and keep an eye on him. a few minutes later, while the manager's back is turned, sure enough he grabs something off a shelf and bolts for the door.
[03:48:11] <furrywolf> having been watching him, I'm only about ten feet behind him... we get about a hundred feet and I've almost got him, and he throws it at me and keeps running.
[03:49:15] <furrywolf> I decided it wasn't worth chasing him further (we were leaving the parking lot, and he might have buddies), and decide the running-for-my-life look on his face was enough of a lesson.
[03:51:40] <furrywolf> several other people in the parking lot, NONE of them help chase. have I mentioned most people are worthless wastes of oxygen.
[03:51:50] <furrywolf> s/\.$/?
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[03:55:17] <furrywolf> if I'd had any backup I would have kept after him, but not chasing him off into a dark street, and those little skinny tweakers are fast.
[03:56:24] <Rickta59> heh .. the only problem the only person who got robbed was you for shopping at RS
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[03:57:11] <furrywolf> heh
[03:57:41] <furrywolf> I couldn't find my headphones splitter, and I need it tomorrow by 8am, so... not many other options. $7 for not even a gold plug is rather annoying.
[03:58:18] <Rickta59> the dollar store around here sells stuff like that
[03:58:57] <furrywolf> the dollar store here does not.
[04:00:20] <furrywolf> the dollar store around here sells defective chinese plastic goods
[04:05:58] <furrywolf> I've purchased two electrical items from the local dollar store that were blatantly misadvertised, one was recalled by the cpsc...
[04:10:25] <zeeshan> furrywolf: color? :)
[04:10:35] <furrywolf> ?
[04:10:38] <zeeshan> of thief
[04:10:47] <furrywolf> white.
[04:10:54] <zeeshan> hoodlum?
[04:10:56] <furrywolf> most tweakers here are white or hoopa.
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[04:11:06] <furrywolf> no, tweaker. tweakers are a category of their own.
[04:11:13] <zeeshan> lol
[04:11:17] <zeeshan> never heard of that term before
[04:11:30] <furrywolf> tweaker?
[04:11:34] <zeeshan> yea
[04:11:54] <furrywolf> meth must not be common where you are.
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[04:13:29] <zeeshan> arent you supposed t obe flying
[04:13:43] <furrywolf> tomorrow
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[04:14:58] <zeeshan> i boiled carrots for the first time in my life
[04:15:01] <zeeshan> holy cow theyre delicious
[04:15:45] <furrywolf> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tweeker
[04:16:01] <zeeshan> drugs are stupid
[04:16:27] <LeelooMinai> I read about a guy who drunk a gallon of carrot juice a day and died:)
[04:16:43] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: figure out your VFD!
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[04:17:05] <LeelooMinai> I think he exceeded A does 30000 times or so and his liver exploded:)
[04:17:15] <LeelooMinai> vitamin A dose*
[04:17:47] <furrywolf> summary: tweakers are methamphetamine addicts, usually skiny and covered in sores, who steal everything they can to sell to buy more meth.
[04:17:56] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I was making holes for the table - that is done now. VFD I must buy first - next month maybe.
[04:18:08] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: did yoiu figure out the spindle?
[04:18:38] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Figure out how?
[04:18:43] <zeeshan> which one to buy
[04:18:45] <LeelooMinai> I ordered 800wat one
[04:18:48] <zeeshan> ah
[04:18:59] <LeelooMinai> ER11 only, but have to start with something
[04:19:12] <LeelooMinai> Up to 7mm shank
[04:19:18] <zeeshan> thats prety good
[04:19:30] <PetefromTn_andro> Gonna run it with the squirrel cage and a hamster?
[04:19:35] <LeelooMinai> I am not going to make motocycle parts:)
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[04:20:15] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_andro: What do you mean:) I will get one of those GS2 VFDs - 1HP 110V
[04:20:50] <LeelooMinai> Could get cheaper Chinese ones, but I think those GS2 have much better documentation and communication options
[04:20:51] <PetefromTn_andro> Oh I thought you might have broken down and got 220v run or something hehe
[04:21:08] <zeeshan> <- done wiring up brake
[04:21:13] <zeeshan> moment of truth soon after i eat.
[04:21:47] <PetefromTn_andro> Gonna let the flying monkeys loose finally!!
[04:21:50] <zeeshan> haha
[04:21:53] <LeelooMinai> No, too expensive to run it to my room. This small 800watt spindle will give me plenty to test - small alu parts, maybe some pcb trials, working maybe with acrylic or whatever is machinable this way, etc.
[04:21:58] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro: im a bit worried
[04:22:06] <zeeshan> my z is sitting on the floor
[04:22:14] <zeeshan> i think im gonna have to raise the table some how.
[04:22:15] <zeeshan> support it.
[04:22:17] <zeeshan> hook up motor
[04:22:26] <zeeshan> im gonna pump K value
[04:22:34] <zeeshan> before hand cause i know 1 is too low
[04:22:46] <zeeshan> i predict itll need close to 700
[04:22:49] <LeelooMinai> I ordered some basic end mills from China too - some carbide ones, some hardened steel. 203 flute ones
[04:22:53] <LeelooMinai> 2-3*
[04:23:05] <zeeshan> thats a lot of flutes!
[04:23:10] <PetefromTn_andro> Sweet to both of you
[04:23:36] <PetefromTn_andro> Lying in bed now enjoying some tunes..
[04:23:51] <LeelooMinai> Justin Beiber? :)
[04:23:58] <PetefromTn_andro> Shiiiitt
[04:24:23] <PetefromTn_andro> You really didn't seriously ask me that..
[04:24:52] <LeelooMinai> Nowadays all is possible - people listen to strange stuff:)
[04:25:17] <zeeshan> i think im gonan record my experience with Z
[04:25:18] <furrywolf> speaking of tweakers, the couple up the road are having yet another drug-induced domestic dispute, which will, like always, result in BOTH of them leaving the house, then making up the next day.
[04:25:18] <roycroft> yeah, but he said he was listening to music
[04:25:23] <zeeshan> so when it crashes you guys get a good video
[04:25:30] <PetefromTn_andro> Oh I do too just not that pansy assed little punk
[04:25:40] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro listens to ACDC
[04:25:47] <zeeshan> not that girly boy!
[04:25:59] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Maybe he needs better main filters then
[04:26:04] <LeelooMinai> mains*
[04:26:06] <zeeshan> definitely
[04:26:45] <PetefromTn_andro> My wife did actually just get AC/DC's new album hehe
[04:26:53] <LeelooMinai> They are still alive?
[04:26:59] <PetefromTn_andro> Apparently
[04:27:01] <zeeshan> lol LeelooMinai
[04:27:03] <zeeshan> haha
[04:27:24] <PetefromTn_andro> She said it was pretty good actually
[04:27:38] * furrywolf likes neither boy bands nor acdc
[04:27:46] <PetefromTn_andro> I have not listened to it yet
[04:28:02] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you like tweakers!
[04:28:10] <zeeshan> brb from mill
[04:29:20] <PetefromTn_andro> My new in ear monitors sound great but the freaking little ear bud soft plastic pieces don't really fit me too well damnit
[04:29:48] <furrywolf> haven't gotten much lately... Life of Agony - Broken Valley was good, Shinedown - Sound of Madness was good, Flotsam and Jetsam - Ugly Noise was good, umm...
[04:30:10] <PetefromTn_andro> I actually like shine down a bit
[04:30:31] <furrywolf> I tried A Pale Horse Named Death, but... how the hell can you make two albums talking entirely about how much you like death? stupid goths. :P
[04:30:39] * furrywolf wouldn't recommend them
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[04:31:17] <PetefromTn_andro> No you would much rather watch Star Trek Voyager...:D
[04:31:38] <furrywolf> no :P
[04:31:54] <zeeshan_> works correctly.
[04:31:57] <zeeshan_> YAY
[04:31:57] <PetefromTn_andro> Ya sure?
[04:32:09] <PetefromTn_andro> What does
[04:32:17] <LeelooMinai> They should make new Star Trek series already - it has been too long.
[04:32:23] <furrywolf> I'd paste a youtube link to some of those, but my internet connection is sucking too badly to load youtube.com, much less an actual video.
[04:32:31] <PetefromTn_andro> Oh hell yeah...
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[04:33:13] <zeeshan_> the Z brake
[04:33:15] <PetefromTn_andro> It would be amazing to have the new cast on a show but it probably will not happen
[04:33:45] <LeelooMinai> I guess they would need to make it "cool" a bit for modern times... But they managed that with the movie, so why not:)
[04:33:54] <PetefromTn_andro> How does that brake work now
[04:34:04] <zeeshan_> i have 2 relays
[04:34:16] <zeeshan_> when both relays are off
[04:34:21] <zeeshan_> it locks up the brake
[04:34:26] <PetefromTn_andro> Personally I think the new movies were Fucking awesome...can't wait for more
[04:34:41] <zeeshan_> when either one of the relays is off, the brake stays in whatever state it was in before. but no current is being consumed
[04:34:47] <zeeshan_> when both relays are on, brake disengages
[04:34:54] <zeeshan_> so basically on a power outage
[04:34:57] <zeeshan_> brake will engage
[04:35:05] <zeeshan_> with the remaining drain of the 24vdc supply
[04:35:22] <furrywolf> heh, I watched the three Star Trek Continues epiosdes a couple months ago... not half bad, especially for a fan production.
[04:35:28] <PetefromTn_andro> How long will it hold it in
[04:35:34] <LeelooMinai> That's theory, in reality it will explode and put the house on fire:)
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[04:35:53] <zeeshan_> PetefromTn_andro, forever
[04:36:04] <zeeshan_> i know this because i shipped the machine like this
[04:36:11] <zeeshan_> with the brake in locked state with no power going to it
[04:36:15] <PetefromTn_andro> Naah this is zeeshan not ssi hehe
[04:36:21] <zeeshan_> LOL
[04:36:32] <zeeshan_> LeelooMinai, 100A breaker to machine
[04:36:34] <zeeshan_> remember?!?
[04:36:36] <PetefromTn_andro> I keed
[04:37:02] <PetefromTn_andro> I'm a keeder
[04:37:30] <zeeshan_> PetefromTn_andro, do you remember what your f_error min
[04:37:36] <zeeshan_> and f_error values are set to
[04:37:52] <zeeshan_> im thinking 0.002 for max
[04:37:58] <PetefromTn_andro> Been trying to talk my friend Brendan from New Zealand into popping in here
[04:38:02] <zeeshan_> and f_error min as 0.0005
[04:38:24] <PetefromTn_andro> Shit no not offhand
[04:38:25] * furrywolf wonders whether PetefromTn_andro spends time as PetefromTn_gyno
[04:38:33] <zeeshan_> lol
[04:39:07] <PetefromTn_andro> Furrywolf needs to worry more about his tweaking neighbors
[04:40:07] <PetefromTn_andro> Anyway my friend Brendan has the exact same Cincinnati Arrow500 I have here and is building much the same machine
[04:40:15] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf has always problems with neighbours... I remember like 3 years ago there was some woman that I think was steling the power from the house or something like that:)
[04:40:35] <LeelooMinai> Now tweakers - sounds wonderful:)
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[04:41:15] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah that must be the upscale part of the community heh
[04:41:20] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K77euG0Vx8 life of agony... I can't load enough of it here to actually play it, but you can try. heh.
[04:41:57] <furrywolf> leeloo: she finally got evicted... took ~20 visits from the cops, and a judge threatening to throw her in jail if she opened her mouth again.
[04:42:41] <LeelooMinai> So the "tweakers" are the replacement? :p
[04:43:01] <furrywolf> she did the "let's drag it through the courts and countersue and turn in every bit of paper on the very last day etc" thing, and finally made such an ass of herself at one of the hearings that the judge was ready to have her removed from the court...
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[04:44:27] <furrywolf> as related to me, the judge instructed her to shut up and listen to what he was saying, and if she opened her mouth, she was being removed by the bailiff. heh.
[04:44:48] <PetefromTn_andro> Hey man that's not terrible really..
[04:44:53] <furrywolf> the landlord won soundly, and finally the last sheriff's visit resulted in her stuff being dumped in the road.
[04:45:04] <PetefromTn_andro> Kinda like it.
[04:46:04] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn man I hate it when my YouTube app forgets my last stuff
[04:46:29] <furrywolf> her stuff being dumped in the road... for the tenth or so time. because she kept trying to move back in every time they came around and removed her. she'd wait for the middle of the night, cut the locks off the doors, break a window, whatever, and start loading her stuff back in.
[04:47:14] <furrywolf> when she finally moved out the last time, she gutted the house... she even took one of the fucking DOORS.
[04:47:34] <LeelooMinai> ...
[04:48:21] <roycroft> during the foreclosure boom folks were doing crap like that
[04:48:27] <roycroft> they would get forclosed on and evicted
[04:48:28] <furrywolf> the landlord decided it wasn't worth trying to track her down and sue her, and was happy just to be rid of her, three years after he initially served her a 90-day notice.
[04:48:44] <roycroft> they would remove the doors and windows and electric outlets and even the plumbing
[04:48:49] <furrywolf> yes, three years to remove someone... because california makes it way too fucking easy to cause problems.
[04:48:53] <roycroft> the banks would never even come by to check out the houses
[04:49:06] <roycroft> so they would get ruined because of not having any doors or windows
[04:49:19] <unfy> palmegranite skittles: not a fan ... great with coffee, but straight up they're a bit harsh
[04:49:48] <PetefromTn_andro> Hehe I love pomegranate
[04:50:07] <roycroft> i wonder how they would be in beer
[04:50:19] <roycroft> an american wheat beer with pomegranate skittles
[04:50:25] <roycroft> could be an interesting recipe
[04:50:43] <furrywolf> how it should work: the landlord serves you a notice. the day the notice expires, your stuff gets tossed on the lawn. if you try anything, the sheriff tosses you in jail. how it actually works: 89 days later you file an objection with the court. 29 days later you schedule the hearing. 29 days later you move your stuff back in. 89 days later you file an objection to the get-the-fuck-out-AGAIN notice. etc, etc...
[04:50:57] <PetefromTn_andro> Jeez man is that all you ever think about
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[04:51:04] <roycroft> i disagree, furrywolf
[04:51:10] <roycroft> landlords can be real jerks
[04:51:19] <roycroft> i don't think there should be indefinite delays
[04:51:27] <roycroft> but renters need to have some recourse
[04:51:45] <furrywolf> pete: try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOmw8OJtD1s (flotsam and jetsam)
[04:51:51] <roycroft> and it should be within a fairly short time window
[04:52:06] <roycroft> if a landlord serves a notice, you should have more like 10 or 20 days to appeal
[04:52:08] <roycroft> not 90 days
[04:53:07] <furrywolf> why should a renter be able to object to a 90 day notice in a month-to-month lease? the landlord has decided he doesn't want you there, and gave you ample time you pack your shit up and leave.
[04:53:18] <furrywolf> s/you pack/to pack
[04:54:46] <PetefromTn_andro> That's kinda not bad either almost sounds like it could be an 90's grunge rock kinda sorta thing hehe
[04:55:17] <PetefromTn_andro> Give me some shinedown
[04:55:21] <furrywolf> I like a pretty wide variety of music...
[04:55:32] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah
[04:55:46] <furrywolf> you can search youtube too, you know. :P
[04:55:51] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_HgGADp9u0 random shinedown song
[04:55:53] <PetefromTn_andro> Busy
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[04:58:41] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah I like those guys.
[04:59:17] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhC34ev08Ho and now for something completely different...
[04:59:19] * furrywolf plays DJ
[05:01:08] <PetefromTn_andro> Man I need to get this lathe operating
[05:01:48] <furrywolf> rather than listen to music all night? :P
[05:02:22] <PetefromTn_andro> What is wrong with having both
[05:02:27] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjuIYH2wrpc how about sludge rock?
[05:03:50] <PetefromTn_andro> That reminds me of something from the movie the crow...
[05:04:01] <roycroft> i rarely want to go back to the shop after dinner
[05:04:21] <roycroft> tonight is no exception
[05:05:34] <unfy> PG skittles in beer or something: i dunno
[05:05:47] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCDx3mgSbkg or some... I'm not even sure how to classify that. garage?
[05:06:08] <roycroft> folks have used candy in beer
[05:06:16] <roycroft> it's not as uncommon as one might think
[05:06:16] <unfy> i made some chaos earlier ( http://i.imgur.com/4AwZY3o.jpg ) , but also bought an extra bag of skittles 'dark side' .. which has diff flavors
[05:06:34] <roycroft> the sugar would ferment, so you'd be left with the flavor
[05:07:10] <unfy> separataed out the PG cause it's got a tart start ... and added the rest to the chaos. given the tart initial flavor of the PG, i imagine it'll do nicely with coffee
[05:08:37] <unfy> i'll admit, not a fan of the dark side skittles.
[05:08:47] <PetefromTn_andro> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3CY0ZjtuHvs. Kick ass soundtrack
[05:09:01] <unfy> pete: you're genderless?!?!?!
[05:09:20] * furrywolf already made that joke
[05:09:27] <unfy> oh :P
[05:09:42] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup
[05:09:50] * furrywolf scrolls up... * furrywolf wonders whether PetefromTn_andro spends time as PetefromTn_gyno
[05:09:54] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup genderless
[05:10:13] <PetefromTn_andro> And hetero
[05:10:57] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiY3sh24P04 more random rock
[05:11:03] <furrywolf> I really should be packing instead of playing DJ...
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[05:13:22] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpWt4FC1VI there's something nice and long, so I have ten minutes to pack before I have to find something else. :P
[05:13:39] <PetefromTn_andro> Did you check my link
[05:13:57] <furrywolf> I can't really play videos with this connection. lol
[05:14:05] <furrywolf> the first ten seconds or so sounded not bad...
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[05:14:19] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn I am on my smartphone
[05:14:20] <furrywolf> I made a note to look for an album of theirs to download later.
[05:14:48] <PetefromTn_andro> That's actually an old song
[05:15:05] <PetefromTn_andro> From the movie the crow
[05:15:17] <PetefromTn_andro> I have the soundtrack
[05:15:34] <PetefromTn_andro> Some really good music
[05:15:59] <furrywolf> dream theater, imho, is one of the more technically accomplished bands around. (the band I just pasted a link to)
[05:16:31] <unfy> hmmm
[05:16:42] <unfy> SFAM was the last dt album i bought
[05:16:44] <LeelooMinai> They are great musicians, but I cannot listen to them too long - they are just too nice:)
[05:16:58] <unfy> haven't cared for anything since. older dt ? yes i like. newer dt... no thanks.
[05:17:03] <furrywolf> lol
[05:17:39] <furrywolf> unfy: have you listened to the album the song I just pasted is from?
[05:17:52] <furrywolf> I consider it on par with Images and Words...
[05:18:09] <unfy> vanden plas is a decent band that's a good bit like DT as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI1GCIUahc0 is a godly track as far as composition
[05:19:08] * furrywolf also likes a lot of older music, but is avoiding pasting it here, figuring people have either already heard it, or like leeloo are younguns and wouldn't like it. :P
[05:19:13] <unfy> after silently finishes, i'll give it a listen, wolf
[05:19:29] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: lol, I am probably older than you:)
[05:19:56] <furrywolf> no, you're way to afraid of kinky sex to be an adult. :P
[05:20:22] * jdh nods
[05:20:30] <LeelooMinai> I was born in 1970 though:p
[05:21:24] <furrywolf> unfy: from what I've gotten to load, not bad
[05:21:41] <LeelooMinai> Same as DM - too nice:)
[05:21:47] <LeelooMinai> DT*
[05:22:03] <unfy> sweet, magigni or whatever his name is
[05:22:11] <unfy> god tier drummer <3
[05:23:00] <furrywolf> that DT album (whose name I just can't remember right now, and my connection sucks too badly to look up) is much like their older works, imho.
[05:23:48] <PetefromTn_andro> Trying to get Brendan in here right now if I can talk him thru irc login
[05:23:49] <unfy> la brie opens his mouth and the song nose dives ._.
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[05:24:55] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ0JnDVOiMY yay the '80s... still one of my favorite albums.
[05:24:58] <unfy> has a slight awake sound to the vocals
[05:26:33] <PetefromTn_andro> Brb
[05:26:36] <LeelooMinai> I prefer vocalists that mix it up - like the one from Opeth or BTBAM
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[05:27:31] <furrywolf> I like a lot of music... not all of it being rock and metal. :)
[05:28:00] <unfy> furry: lost not forgotten aint too bad. i can stomach la brie in it. but generally anything after awake i /hate/ him with a passion
[05:28:25] <furrywolf> not sure I remember awake...
[05:28:46] <furrywolf> unfy: try build me up, break me down, off the same album. (I think that's the name)
[05:29:23] <LeelooMinai> When I listen to him it's like he can only express one emotion - it's nice and all in this mode, but wears me down quickly and becomes annoying:)
[05:31:05] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I39oV-xaVxY going further back, how about the '70s? another brilliant (in my opinion!) band.
[05:31:13] <furrywolf> that most people have never heard of
[05:31:45] <LeelooMinai> Damn, you may be indeed older than me:p
[05:32:20] <furrywolf> leeloo: that song is probably not to your tastes, but I still think they're a good band. heh.
[05:32:42] * furrywolf likes a lot of different music
[05:32:45] <unfy> giving dt's 2013 album a listen
[05:32:58] <unfy> i may have to go buy this :P
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[05:33:01] <furrywolf> their newer one wasn't as good as the 2012 one.
[05:33:16] <furrywolf> pete: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I39oV-xaVxY going further back, how about the '70s? another brilliant (in my opinion!) band.
[05:33:29] <PetefromTn_andro> Okay guys waiting for nick georgenz in here...
[05:34:20] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn he gave up..
[05:35:33] <bobo_> may by jymmm turned nick in to someone else ?
[05:36:30] <PetefromTn_andro> He's still trying
[05:36:31] <furrywolf> no comments on the renaissance track, eh? I must still be the only one who likes them.
[05:36:50] <PetefromTn_andro> Trying to get Brendan in here right now
[05:36:57] <roycroft> i'm watching tv at the moment - can't really watch youtube videos as well
[05:37:03] <roycroft> but i have always like renaissance
[05:37:51] <furrywolf> the band, not the era. :)
[05:38:25] <roycroft> yes
[05:38:36] <roycroft> the era was ok in many respects, too
[05:38:38] <furrywolf> leeloo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJFMPi_9gN0 just for you! :P
[05:38:42] <roycroft> but the band are what you were talking about
[05:39:36] <furrywolf> I should get Jett's latest album.
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[05:41:15] <PetefromTn_andro> Hey man
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[05:43:10] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2OD-dV7j_I how about new pop?
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[05:44:09] <PetefromTn_andro> That's Brendan guys the Andchat login. He's in New Zealand and has never been on an irc before. He's driving somewhere now but will be popping in here for help with the conversion soon
[05:45:02] <bobo_> what conversion ?
[05:46:09] <PetefromTn_andro> He has the same Cincinnati Arrow 500 Vertical machining centre like I have and is using mesanet cards and teco drivers and motors like me too.
[05:46:26] <Tom_itx> does his tool changer work?
[05:46:38] <PetefromTn_andro> He's just getting started
[05:46:51] <Tom_itx> oh, i thought he was helping you
[05:47:10] <bobo_> all the more reason for a spare hard drive
[05:47:21] <PetefromTn_andro> He has got a lot of the electronic stuff installed and is getting ready to start powering stuff up
[05:47:30] <Tom_itx> bobo_ i keep several of those as spare
[05:47:44] <PetefromTn_andro> No I have been trying to help him actually
[05:47:54] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z9LHR4iF6w more metal. and now it's time for me to head off to bed.
[05:47:57] <bobo_> tom loan one to pete
[05:48:08] <Tom_itx> what for?
[05:48:53] <Tom_itx> i just got cheap adapters too so i can go back and forth from sata to pata with any of em
[05:49:13] <PetefromTn_andro> Pete can get his own thanks heh
[05:50:04] <Tom_itx> i've got a couple MFM in the drawer backed up with a bunch of crap i'll never use again too :D
[05:50:27] <PetefromTn_andro> Hopefully between his machine and mine and the helpful information here we can both get the machine working fully
[05:51:11] <Tom_itx> i got my new cards installed finally
[05:51:20] <PetefromTn_andro> What cards
[05:51:33] <Tom_itx> 7i90 7i47 7i84
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[05:51:53] <bobo_> this is going to be a good-night
[05:51:57] <PetefromTn_andro> Wow what do you need all those for?
[05:52:06] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/7i90_1.jpg
[05:52:16] <Tom_itx> don't wanna run outta IO
[05:52:28] <Tom_itx> 2 spare headers on the 7i90
[05:52:32] <PetefromTn_andro> Hehe
[05:52:34] <zeeshan_> man
[05:52:37] <zeeshan_> this is SCARY
[05:52:45] <zeeshan_> i have a jack under the Z table
[05:52:49] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup LOL
[05:52:50] <furrywolf> bbl, sleep
[05:52:55] <zeeshan_> Furry
[05:52:56] <zeeshan_> NO!
[05:52:59] <zeeshan_> YOU CANT GO
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[05:55:35] <zeeshan_> how the heck do i disable the brake
[05:55:37] <zeeshan_> in pnc conf!
[05:55:57] <Tom_itx> carefully
[05:56:13] <Tom_itx> block the axis up
[05:56:21] <zeeshan_> its blocked
[05:56:34] <zeeshan_> i need to verify that when i press + in pncconf
[05:56:38] <zeeshan_> it moves in the correct direction
[05:56:45] <zeeshan_> table should go down
[05:56:54] <zeeshan_> and encounder count should be positive
[05:57:04] <zeeshan_> but i dont see an option in pncconf to disable brake
[05:57:05] <PetefromTn_andro> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QfZzkhfz89c. Cool mellow
[05:59:04] <PetefromTn_andro> When I enable the servos the brake disengage
[05:59:38] <PetefromTn_andro> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hyr5WdrEvGI
[05:59:44] <zeeshan_> how did yous et that up
[05:59:45] <zeeshan_> er
[05:59:47] <zeeshan_> yours is through hardware
[06:00:23] <roycroft> http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/4850359469.html
[06:00:31] <roycroft> there's a rockwell hardness tester there for $150
[06:00:37] <roycroft> kind of hard to tell the condition from the little picture
[06:00:43] <roycroft> worth checking out?
[06:01:18] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah mine works with the servos enable from the mesa cards to the drivers
[06:02:39] <PetefromTn_andro> Sounds like they have some machine tooling too
[06:03:12] <roycroft> it looks like there is some tooling
[06:03:17] <roycroft> it's a bit of a drive
[06:03:17] <PetefromTn_andro> It's only worth checking out if you need one
[06:03:21] <zeeshan_> correct me if im wrong
[06:03:24] <zeeshan_> but im moving the table up..
[06:03:26] <roycroft> not too far, but it's getting up in the foothills
[06:03:33] <zeeshan_> but my encoder count is reading +
[06:03:39] <zeeshan_> this is incorrect right
[06:03:43] <zeeshan_> cause it should be reading -.
[06:03:47] <roycroft> i don't necessarily need one, but if i had one i would occasionally use it
[06:03:48] <zeeshan_> cause the tool is going down
[06:03:51] <roycroft> and if the price is right ...
[06:04:00] <roycroft> $150 is a pretty good price
[06:04:26] <roycroft> if it's in decent shape i could even clean it up and flip it
[06:04:27] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah it sounds like it should be going negative
[06:05:11] <zeeshan_> okay when i press + for jog
[06:05:14] <zeeshan_> table goes down now
[06:05:17] <zeeshan_> and encoder reads positive
[06:05:23] <zeeshan_> meaning tool is going up
[06:05:49] <PetefromTn_andro> Okay
[06:05:54] <PetefromTn_andro> Sounds good
[06:05:55] <zeeshan_> glad thats over
[06:05:57] <zeeshan_> haha
[06:06:07] <bobo_> neg is tool into work
[06:06:11] <PetefromTn_andro> So you have table movement
[06:06:15] <zeeshan_> i crashed it into the wood
[06:06:19] <zeeshan_> thats on a jack
[06:06:22] <zeeshan_> it lifted the whole machine up
[06:06:30] <zeeshan_> whoops
[06:06:37] <zeeshan_> yes pete
[06:06:41] <zeeshan_> now need to figure out how to disable brake
[06:06:44] <zeeshan_> and start tuning Z
[06:06:50] <PetefromTn_andro> Awesome
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[06:11:05] <PetefromTn_andro> Well I am getting tired gonna get to sleep guys. Take it easy..
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[06:15:37] <zeeshan_> gnite
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[06:48:33] <zeeshan_> Z axis tuned
[06:48:34] <zeeshan_> hooray!
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[07:12:34] <bobo_> zeeshan; is this now considered to be the "Hi World " condition ?
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[07:38:28] <zeeshan_> bobo yes
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[07:59:28] <Deejay> moin
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[10:20:41] <zeeshan> pcw_home: can my tune for Z axis be more improved? http://i.imgur.com/oNsPhiu.png i keep getting joint errors even with 0.003 feed error max and 0.010 rapid error max
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[11:30:05] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[11:30:52] <Loetmichel> ah, btw: did i mentoin that i was gifted with som thsirts by one of my co-worker with my "standard phrases" on them? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15547
[11:30:52] <Loetmichel> "erst sortieren dann reden" -> sort your thoughts fist, THEN talk...
[11:30:52] <Loetmichel> i have a few others, "das hat der newton da festgenagelt" -> newton nailed that down
[11:30:52] <Loetmichel> "[front] der fruehe Vogel... [back] kriegt eins in die fresse wenn er nicht die klappe haelt" -> The early bird ... gets some if he isnt quiet now!
[11:30:52] <Loetmichel> "augenmass laesst gruessen" -> eye measurement sends greetings [...havent seen it for a while, have you?]
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[11:42:52] <robin_sz> morning
[11:44:05] <robin_sz> my c is not working today
[11:44:52] <robin_sz> foo_t *bar[] = { &first_foo, &second_foo } is correct for an array of pointers to structures of type foo_t right?
[12:05:04] * archivist waves a copy of K&R, do you mean * which is a pointer or & which is the address of an object
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[12:15:16] <robin_sz> http://pastebin.com/qECDbnbi
[12:15:25] <robin_sz> doing my head in
[12:17:32] <archivist> I think the first looks right
[12:18:01] <robin_sz> yes, but it uses shit loads of memory
[12:18:14] <robin_sz> like, 2K or something by the time I am done
[12:18:53] <robin_sz> first part works fine
[12:19:43] <robin_sz> im just trying to convert the array to just be pointers, not copies
[12:25:09] <archivist> the second does not appear to use the pointer address right, int *pa pa=&a[0] sets pa to point at the 0th element of a
[12:25:34] * archivist very rusty too
[12:26:51] <archivist> or would that be Crusty
[12:27:29] <robin_sz> so *ps ps=&someStruct should be correct for setting ps as a pointer to a struct then
[12:28:08] <robin_sz> or rather some_struct_t *ps;
[12:31:42] <archivist> I think so
[12:33:05] <robin_sz> so is that assignment not right then in my code? the { &foo, &bar, &baz} should assign the addresses of the structs into that variable columns
[12:33:32] <robin_sz> C99 supports variable length arrays
[12:33:58] <robin_sz> it even supports them inside structs, but you have to make them the last item in the struct :)
[12:34:45] <robin_sz> so im not really sure whats supposed to be wrong with that assignment
[12:35:22] <archivist> I would add some debugging to understand
[12:35:42] <robin_sz> yeah, tried that, the debugger on the target just shows an array full of junk
[12:36:34] <archivist> I mean coded prints of values and addresses so you can compare with array addresses
[12:36:46] <robin_sz> prints?
[12:37:16] <archivist> some method of seeing the real address/values
[12:37:26] <robin_sz> only way is via JTAG
[12:38:11] <archivist> you seem to be making a menu, I would write/printf to that screen
[12:38:18] <robin_sz> its an embedded thing with a LCD
[12:38:44] <robin_sz> but I have full debug access and variabel inspection via JTAG
[12:40:36] <robin_sz> I'll poke around some more ...
[12:40:37] <archivist> like test variables to hold values addresses for various coding methods, chose one with the right numbers
[12:41:11] <robin_sz> yeah, when you have easy ways to see output etc it helps
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[12:42:45] <robin_sz> JTAG debug is pretty awesome on embedded these days, nice easy visual inspection and modification of variables, set breakpoints, watch vars etc
[12:42:57] <robin_sz> just my C sucks :)
[12:43:14] <archivist> never played with jtag yet
[12:43:43] <archivist> I am more used to assembler in embedded :)
[12:44:43] <robin_sz> too ahrd for me
[12:45:12] <archivist> it does what it says on the tin
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[12:46:11] <archivist> no hidden optimisations unless you are using a dumb M$ assembler
[12:50:53] <robin_sz> bit too hard for me though to build stuff
[12:51:16] <robin_sz> ive done simple embedded stuff in assmembler before
[12:51:29] <robin_sz> I did a remote control for a TV manufacturer once
[12:52:08] <archivist> a pointer to a struct plus the struct has to use more than the right size structures methinks
[12:52:42] <robin_sz> but this would be way too hard .. i2c stuff talking to a DSP, USB to a PC, RS485 networking ...
[12:53:22] <archivist> I was making single device objects like http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=electronics+clock
[12:53:44] <archivist> PIC chips with hardly any memory
[12:55:11] <robin_sz> yeah, I did some pic stuff back inthe day
[12:55:29] <robin_sz> the tv remote was 6803 I think
[12:55:46] <robin_sz> 256 bytes of ram or something
[12:56:23] <robin_sz> this AVR is 2K of ram, so I can't spare any for useless copies of the menu
[12:57:09] <robin_sz> something weird here ...
[12:57:16] <archivist> is the menu all in rom?
[12:57:28] <robin_sz> yes
[12:57:37] <robin_sz> so I made two arrays
[12:57:38] <robin_sz> menu_stack_t columns[GUI_MAX_MENU_IDX + 1];
[12:57:38] <robin_sz> menu_stack_t *colp[GUI_MAX_MENU_IDX + 1];
[12:57:40] <archivist> I would just be using the rom addresses
[12:58:37] <robin_sz> then in the prog I have
[12:58:48] <robin_sz> columns[0] = logoMenu; <- seems to be fine
[12:58:54] <jthornton> I guess it is time to upgrade this computer to 2.7 and Wheezy so I can get a newer version of Geany
[12:59:01] <robin_sz> colp[0]=&logoMenu;
[12:59:15] <robin_sz> should in theory just hold a pointer to the same thing, right?
[12:59:36] <archivist> colp[0]=&logoMenu; seems right
[13:00:02] <robin_sz> except columns[0] and colp[0] now hold completely different stuff
[13:01:18] <archivist> columns[0] = logoMenu; is a copy colp[0] should be a pointer to original in rom
[13:02:47] <robin_sz> right, but the structure is different ...
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[18:29:55] <CaptHindsight> I didn't find any obits or listing on the DOC site
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[18:30:34] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: we print photos using inkjet with it
[18:32:11] <CaptHindsight> aircraft parts tend to be aluminum and anodized, text and graphics on cockpit controls as well
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[18:33:03] <PetefromTn_> so you are printing inkjet on these aircraft parts that sound impressive
[18:33:37] <CaptHindsight> yes, photo res, just like your printer at home only in anodize
[18:33:51] <PetefromTn_> damn got any pics? sounds amazing
[18:33:56] <CaptHindsight> I have steel and copper parts as well
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[17:50:08] <t12> i need to deposit <3um dia droplets
[17:50:11] <CaptHindsight> most black tij cartridges are ~25pL
[17:50:14] <t12> into wells on a grid
[17:50:35] <t12> likely will end up doing spincoat and scrape or something
[17:50:50] <t12> maybe could inkjet it but 1pl is too big eveb
[17:50:53] <t12> even
[17:51:07] <CaptHindsight> 1pL is the smallest off the shelf drop volume, we build our own below that drop volume
[17:51:20] <t12> is it hard to do
[17:51:26] <t12> build them i mean
[17:51:41] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: Oh - be fair. Cartridges are more than 25pL. They're at least typically 250uL.
[17:51:42] <t12> do they perform reliably
[17:51:50] <CaptHindsight> t12: how many drops, what kind of spacing, how fast what materials etc etc?
[17:52:28] <t12> 4.5 um c2c grid, need to deposit to bottom of 3um wells
[17:52:42] <t12> uhh like 10-20million
[17:52:51] <CaptHindsight> Black canon, HP and lexmark are ~25pL
[17:53:09] <t12> the structure is a bit more complicated than im describibg
[17:53:21] <t12> its onto fused silica i believe
[17:53:25] <CaptHindsight> t12: i build printers for apps like that
[17:53:36] <t12> commercial or academic?
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[17:53:43] <CaptHindsight> I can go sub-micron as well
[17:53:49] <CaptHindsight> commercial
[17:54:02] <t12> whereabouts?
[17:54:38] <CaptHindsight> US and China
[17:55:05] <t12> can you work on nre?
[17:55:15] <CaptHindsight> http://imtech-or.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/IS411web.pdf hp45 spec
[17:55:24] <CaptHindsight> sure
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[17:56:41] <t12> depending on how various approaches to this pan out, we'll need help in this field
[17:57:49] <t12> got gear around to do a trial run in that ballpark? or would a reasonable test mean building new stuff
[17:57:54] <CaptHindsight> t12: http://imagebin.ca/v/1oTqtSVpudl4 this one holds 5um with <10um drops into <10um deep groves in anodize
[17:59:06] <CaptHindsight> t12: depends on what's in the lab at the time, but I'd have to know more about the material that needs to be deposited and the surface geometry
[17:59:45] <t12> ill write something up describing what were trying to do
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[17:59:57] <t12> thanks!
[18:00:48] <CaptHindsight> ^^ that one is for a large silicon valley "fruit" company
[18:00:57] <t12> hahah
[18:01:11] <t12> got a method for registration?
[18:01:48] <t12> i guess that could always be done by offset microscope
[18:01:50] <Jymmmm> CaptHindsight: Bananaware LLC
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[18:02:19] <CaptHindsight> we use computer vision with microscopes and lasers to monitor position
[18:02:41] <t12> sweet
[18:02:51] <t12> ok breakfast ends! gotta go
[18:02:54] <CaptHindsight> so deposition onto non-planar surfaces is not a problem
[18:03:07] <CaptHindsight> you just need line of sight nozzle to substrate
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[18:10:03] <Sairon> hmm
[18:10:11] <Sairon> sounds like i missed something interesting
[18:10:15] <Sairon> whatcha coating?
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[18:13:45] <robin_sz> so, who is good with C then?
[18:13:55] <Sairon> define good
[18:13:59] <Sairon> #define good
[18:14:08] <robin_sz> better than my half-assed attempts
[18:14:11] <LeelooMinai> #define good bad
[18:14:16] <Sairon> ha
[18:14:35] <Sairon> i used to be kinda good
[18:14:58] <LeelooMinai> Now you are God-like:)
[18:15:19] <robin_sz> menu_stack_t foo[6]; <- shoudl create a block of memory 6 x sizeof(menu_stack_t) wide right?
[18:15:29] <robin_sz> and ...
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[18:15:50] <LeelooMinai> It's an array, yes
[18:15:53] -!- kwallace3 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[18:16:14] <robin_sz> menu_stack_t *bar[6]; shoudl be an array of pointers to some structs, so should just use 6 ints worth right?
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[18:16:53] <LeelooMinai> Depend on the architecture - may be 1, 2 ,4 or 8 or for bytes per pointer
[18:17:01] <robin_sz> yes,
[18:17:02] <robin_sz> that.
[18:17:24] <archivist> and are you defining types which create no space just the typedef
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[18:19:48] <robin_sz> yeah,
[18:20:10] <robin_sz> so I decided to just try creating the array of pointer .. 6 of them
[18:20:11] <LeelooMinai> robin_sz: Also, if you are not sure what declaration means, try this: http://cdecl.org/
[18:20:22] <robin_sz> and it used 4K of memory
[18:21:09] <LeelooMinai> How do you know it used 4K of memory?
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[18:25:46] <robin_sz> how, because in the compiler output it tells me the amoutn of flash, ram and eeprom used by the binary
[18:26:26] <Sairon> hmm...
[18:26:29] <Sairon> yeah, well
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[18:26:44] <Sairon> trying to compare the c code to effects on compiled binaries
[18:26:46] <Sairon> is dicey
[18:26:48] <LeelooMinai> This is pobably what linker did - it may have a setting for block granulity of 4K or something to that
[18:26:55] <LeelooMinai> like*
[18:27:01] <Sairon> modern compilers do some wild stuff
[18:27:10] <Sairon> aligned on word size?
[18:27:17] <LeelooMinai> You may need to look at the details of the linking process, check available switches, etc.
[18:28:20] <LeelooMinai> Or it may be malloc requiring minimum RAM to operate
[18:28:47] <LeelooMinai> It needs some initial overhead to setup heap. So if it is your first variable, it will jumpt to this minimum.
[18:28:48] <archivist> are you defining the arrays in ram or is it trying to put it in rom
[18:29:27] <LeelooMinai> robin_sz: Try adding variable of size that is twice that, then size that will exceed 4K and see what happens.
[18:29:32] <archivist> brain dead compiler if it cannot use embedded device ram properly
[18:30:01] <LeelooMinai> archivist: It's not really the compiler - probably just malloc code.
[18:30:26] <archivist> I have seen no evidence he is using malloc at all
[18:30:26] <LeelooMinai> archivist: May have heap block set to 4K by default
[18:30:39] <archivist> this is in an avr
[18:30:41] <LeelooMinai> Well, I don't know how he is allocationg it.
[18:30:57] <Sairon> archivist - maybe not right compiler switches
[18:31:11] <archivist> likely
[18:31:30] <Sairon> i can write c code
[18:31:35] <Sairon> compiler stuff, eh
[18:31:42] <Sairon> i've never done embedded
[18:32:15] <archivist> some embedded is very tight on memory
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[18:32:51] <LeelooMinai> If you have, say, 128 bytes of RAM, yes:)
[18:33:13] <archivist> that much!
[18:33:36] <LeelooMinai> I remember I had this much on some old msp430 project
[18:33:58] <LeelooMinai> Then upgraded to 256 bytes:)
[18:34:50] <LeelooMinai> But where is the person who actually asked the question...
[18:35:05] <Sairon> heh
[18:36:12] <archivist> from earlier <robin_sz> this AVR is 2K of ram, so I can't spare any for useless copies of the menu
[18:36:44] <LeelooMinai> I wonder how he ended up with 4K ram then:)
[18:36:59] <archivist> or total 4k
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[18:52:20] <robin_sz> archivist, the actual target hardware uses a Atmega32x thing, 2K ram. but it only loads program via ISP and has no JTAG debug, due to shortage of pins, so I test and develop on a slightly larger processor on a dev board and then when its looking good, load it onto the target hardware, the dev board has 8K of ram, and actually, the compiler will happily compile 100s of K and then warn you "RAM used: 235K (595% full)"
[18:52:58] <robin_sz> the dev board has JTAG, so it makes it easier to debug
[18:53:50] <robin_sz> you get a memory useage report in the compiler output
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[18:56:46] <robin_sz> its GCC by the way, works just great for AVR
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[19:27:51] <zeeshan> hi
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[19:33:04] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC4mcTdwJ_U
[19:33:05] <zeeshan> :-)
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[19:36:52] <TekniQue> zeeshan: this machine has steppers, correct?
[19:36:59] <zeeshan> no
[19:37:15] <TekniQue> ok what hardware is it then?
[19:37:31] <zeeshan> amc servo drives and siemens servos
[19:37:38] <TekniQue> cool
[19:38:21] <CaptHindsight> you have it jogging! \0/
[19:38:38] <zeeshan> yessir
[19:38:41] <zeeshan> im trying to get the error less
[19:38:49] <zeeshan> i dont know what else to do
[19:39:01] <zeeshan> ive only changed P and FF1
[19:39:07] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/oNsPhiu.png
[19:39:24] <zeeshan> you can see where my curosor is its reading 0.0001 error
[19:39:33] <zeeshan> but there are spikes
[19:39:36] <zeeshan> which cause fault outs
[19:42:55] <jthornton> is it possible to copy the files from another computer in /var/cache/apt/archives over the LAN?
[19:43:14] <zeeshan> jthornton: i dont see why not
[19:43:18] <zeeshan> if you set the right chmod
[19:43:36] <jthornton> I can only see the home folder from here
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[19:45:20] <skunkworks> zeeshan: what ended up being the brake problem?
[19:45:30] <zeeshan> skunkworks: i honestly didnt find a problem
[19:45:34] <zeeshan> i think it was user error
[19:45:42] <zeeshan> this brake needs +24vdc one way on the solenoid
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[19:45:59] <zeeshan> to engage, and then reverse polarity to disengage
[19:46:09] <zeeshan> but if there is power loss, it stays in whatever state it was last
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[19:46:29] <zeeshan> it scares me a bit because if 24VDC power is lost, and the brake isn't engaged
[19:46:35] <zeeshan> its gonna remain in free mode.
[19:47:14] <SpeedEvil> All you need is a 24V battery
[19:47:26] <SpeedEvil> What current does the brake draw?
[19:47:31] <pcw_home> The original 24VDC power supply probably had a huge filter capacitor
[19:48:01] <SpeedEvil> 5s*24v*2A or whatever isn't a whole heap of power
[19:48:19] <SpeedEvil> s/power/energy/
[19:48:19] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: 1amp
[19:48:20] <pcw_home> 100 ms is probably enough
[19:48:30] <SpeedEvil> oh - the brake locks on?
[19:48:35] <zeeshan> yea
[19:48:40] <zeeshan> its like a switch.
[19:48:44] <pcw_home> just enough to engage the brake
[19:48:45] <SpeedEvil> yeah - then 100,200ms is likely fine
[19:48:45] <zeeshan> it stays in whatrever position you told it last to
[19:49:01] <SpeedEvil> It has a 'lock' and 'unlock' winding?
[19:49:01] <zeeshan> so i need to put a big ass capaictor in parallel with the brake?
[19:49:08] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: it seems that way
[19:49:15] <zeeshan> i dont know what it looks like internally
[19:49:18] <zeeshan> just its behaviour
[19:49:28] <SpeedEvil> just detect power fail, and apply power from a cap to lock
[19:49:33] <SpeedEvil> and you're pretty much done then
[19:50:12] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: can you add a spring to the solenoid to make it park when the power is removed?
[19:50:18] <SpeedEvil> 1A/100ms - if you want 2V drop, you need .05F
[19:50:20] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: nahh its internal
[19:50:55] <zeeshan> non polarized cap?
[19:51:02] <zeeshan> cause im switching polarity on the solenoid.
[19:51:20] <pcw_home> this is the 24V power supply cap
[19:51:22] <CaptHindsight> flux capacitor
[19:51:37] <zeeshan> pcw_home: what stops the other things from robbing the charge
[19:51:41] <zeeshan> on shutdown
[19:52:02] <pcw_home> because everything else is off
[19:52:27] <zeeshan> 7i77 field power is consuming some
[19:52:37] <zeeshan> contactor solenoids are consuming like 1amp too
[19:52:38] <pcw_home> 30 ma maybe
[19:52:47] <zeeshan> lemme post diagram
[19:52:57] <pcw_home> contactors should be off
[19:53:20] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/53NcsqE.png
[19:53:40] <zeeshan> contactors are normally closed
[19:54:25] <zeeshan> my default state of those brake solenoids is "brake on"
[19:54:40] <pcw_home> umm what contactors must be off if 24V is lost
[19:54:40] <zeeshan> could i not just put a capacitor across the entire Z brake rung
[19:54:54] <pcw_home> too messy
[19:55:21] <pcw_home> if you have a power fail you should go into estop
[19:55:35] <pcw_home> immediately
[19:55:45] <zeeshan> i was relying on the fact that on power loss
[19:55:54] <zeeshan> there would be no power to the contactor solenoids
[19:56:09] <pcw_home> and you should have enough 24V hold up to apply the brake
[19:57:11] <zeeshan> well i dont know how to wire that
[19:57:20] <zeeshan> :)
[19:57:25] <zeeshan> ill figure it out
[19:58:04] <pcw_home> are the contators latched so the dont go back on again after power is restored?
[19:58:15] <zeeshan> yes they are latched
[19:58:20] <zeeshan> they're normally off
[19:58:31] <zeeshan> if there is a wire cut, or e-stop button breaks or whatever
[19:58:39] <zeeshan> it'll cut the power to them
[19:59:11] <pcw_home> so you could include a 7i77 output driven relay in the chain
[19:59:45] <pcw_home> so linuxcnc can force a estop
[20:00:13] <zeeshan> ill need to buy another relay
[20:00:21] <zeeshan> already used my spare for this dual relay brake setup
[20:00:40] <zeeshan> but yea that makes sense
[20:00:56] <zeeshan> on amp_enable
[20:01:12] <zeeshan> or something related to e-stop
[20:01:15] <zeeshan> ill latch that output
[20:01:28] <zeeshan> can't do on amp_enable :)
[20:01:32] <pcw_home> if you want a separate capacitor for the brake you can use a diode to isolate it from the main 24V supply
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[20:01:47] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i'd feel much better doing that
[20:02:00] <zeeshan> have its own isolated circuit
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[20:03:01] <zeeshan> pcw_home: can i improve on my tune?
[20:03:08] <zeeshan> i tried playing with FF2
[20:03:17] <zeeshan> it even a 0.001 of it made things worse
[20:03:31] <pcw_home> FF2 is usually very small
[20:04:19] <zeeshan> i ocasionally get a joint error regardless of im using continuous feed thing in linuxcnc. 0.003 feed error max and 0.010 rapid error max for each axis
[20:04:54] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/oNsPhiu.png <- thats what tune looks like on average
[20:05:10] <pcw_home> what axis to you get errors on?
[20:05:16] <pcw_home> do you
[20:05:19] <zeeshan> X and Z only
[20:05:23] <zeeshan> Y is nice and smooth..
[20:05:29] <zeeshan> it doesnt have those weird spikes
[20:05:57] <zeeshan> X and Z are both related to table
[20:06:02] <zeeshan> Y is the ram moving
[20:06:11] <pcw_home> you might tune the drives velocity gain again
[20:06:35] <zeeshan> how close to i need t obe to oscillation
[20:06:40] <zeeshan> *do
[20:06:59] <pcw_home> maybe 30% below
[20:07:04] <zeeshan> im already there
[20:07:10] <zeeshan> i hit oscillation
[20:07:15] <zeeshan> and then i backed off 1 full turn.
[20:07:21] <zeeshan> there are 12 full turns
[20:07:41] <pcw_home> Z looks like its oscillating
[20:08:46] <zeeshan> ah i mgiht need to zoom in more.
[20:08:59] <zeeshan> i just noticed something, the f-error almost has a beat in it
[20:09:12] <pcw_home> but it may be too much P term
[20:09:13] <pcw_home> also look for mechanical problems
[20:09:37] <zeeshan> im gonna clean the ways more
[20:09:40] <zeeshan> and lubricate them better
[20:10:02] <zeeshan> you notice how you get that initial spike?
[20:10:20] <zeeshan> and about 1 time division later you see another spike inverse to it
[20:10:21] <pcw_home> with linear scale feedback only, any backlash or spring (worn or loose belts) is an issue
[20:10:59] <zeeshan> well i measured backlash before i put the servos on
[20:11:14] <zeeshan> for X only (cause i cant move Z by hand, it was too much work)
[20:11:19] <pcw_home> timing belt drive?
[20:11:22] <zeeshan> and i wasn't getting anything on the tenths indicator
[20:11:24] <zeeshan> yes timing belt drive
[20:11:35] <pcw_home> belts tight?
[20:11:51] <zeeshan> they feel tight to me!
[20:11:58] <zeeshan> i can't make them come off if i pull on them
[20:12:21] <zeeshan> they could be tighter though
[20:12:35] <jthornton> logger[mah], log
[20:12:35] <logger[mah]> jthornton: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2015-01-17.html
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[20:13:27] <zeeshan> pcw_home: can i try integral gain?
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[20:13:43] <zeeshan> to battle that stiction
[20:13:54] <pcw_home> you can but usually its not needed on velocity mode drives
[20:14:27] <zeeshan> im gonna try to tighten the belts more
[20:14:29] <pcw_home> and doesn't help stiction much (because its slow to react)
[20:14:45] <zeeshan> if i hook up a dial indicator
[20:14:54] <zeeshan> and turn the servo back and forth. and notice no backlash
[20:14:57] <zeeshan> then it is not a belt problem right?
[20:15:08] <pcw_home> you might try a longer Z move to see what that beat is all about
[20:15:23] <zeeshan> ok will do
[20:15:35] <zeeshan> i really appreciate all the hellp, i'd be lost
[20:15:40] <zeeshan> still am lost :-)
[20:15:51] <pcw_home> no, backlash wont show up that way (it will if the encoders are on the motor)
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[20:16:19] <zeeshan> im measuring backlash with an indicator
[20:16:21] <zeeshan> not the encoder
[20:16:46] <pcw_home> backlash is how far you can move the motor shaft without moving the linear axis
[20:17:10] <zeeshan> yuea so ill turn the motor shaft by hand in one direction
[20:17:20] <zeeshan> and then move it in another direction with indicator hooked up to the linear axis
[20:17:31] <pcw_home> yeah
[20:17:48] <zeeshan> i'm trying to figure out belts being not tight induces backlash?
[20:18:03] <zeeshan> that's what you were thinking might be causing problems?
[20:18:16] <zeeshan> im gonna try this.brb
[20:19:37] <pcw_home> any spring between the motor and the linear axis will make tuning "more interesting"
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[20:39:55] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: is that mill belt driven?
[20:40:09] <CaptHindsight> the XYZ?
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[20:44:40] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: yes
[20:44:55] <zeeshan> pcw_home: there is spring.
[20:45:30] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWHBPKuyc_g
[20:45:45] <zeeshan> you can see that im moving the pulley that much
[20:45:56] <zeeshan> but there is no movement registered on a tenths indicator
[20:47:00] -!- MacGalempsy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[20:47:17] <zeeshan> the machine uses htd belts
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[20:50:40] <zeeshan> i dunno how to get rid of this backlash in the drive system?
[20:50:40] <zeeshan> :P
[20:50:51] * zeeshan will try tensioning the belts
[20:50:56] <CaptHindsight> the pulley appears to be moving more than the screw, but it's hard to see in the video
[20:51:05] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: that is exactly it
[20:51:07] <zeeshan> pulleys move i'd say..
[20:51:15] <zeeshan> 5-8 degrees
[20:51:21] <CaptHindsight> how is the pulley attached to the screw?
[20:51:23] <zeeshan> but no indication on linear axis.
[20:51:34] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i can feel the belt stretching
[20:51:40] <CaptHindsight> it's not belt tension
[20:51:42] <zeeshan> when i move the pulley
[20:51:54] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: they're keyed on
[20:52:04] <CaptHindsight> well it might be that as well but you have more than one issue
[20:52:05] <zeeshan> with some sort of lock nut too
[20:52:49] <CaptHindsight> but the pulley is moving more than the screw, so there is play between the pulley and the screw
[20:53:32] <CaptHindsight> sounds like too thin a key if there is play
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[20:53:46] <zeeshan> i dont think its the pulley attached to the shaft
[20:53:51] <zeeshan> i can see the screw moving too
[20:54:01] <zeeshan> it might be stiction
[20:54:11] <CaptHindsight> is the dial indicator moving at all?
[20:54:14] <zeeshan> no
[20:54:24] <zeeshan> oh.
[20:54:30] <zeeshan> the WHOLE screw
[20:54:32] <zeeshan> could be moving axially
[20:54:41] <zeeshan> at the bearing supports
[20:54:42] <CaptHindsight> is the pulley rotating the same amount as the screw?
[20:54:46] <zeeshan> i need to check that.
[20:54:56] <zeeshan> no
[20:54:59] <zeeshan> theyre opposite
[20:55:27] <zeeshan> im gonna check axial movement
[20:55:31] <CaptHindsight> the pulley and screw should turn as they are one solid rigid part
[20:55:52] <CaptHindsight> how are the ends of the ballscrew fixed?
[20:56:04] <JT-Shop> well I guess I need to find a different video card for the wheezy in the beer cave nvidia sucks
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[21:05:48] <Loetmichel2> *HA* that works surprisingly well... now i have to wire that to the base and put the x52 back together ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15559&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[21:07:41] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: youre right
[21:07:46] <zeeshan> it is a combination.
[21:07:59] <zeeshan> the whole screw moves axially by 0.0004"
[21:08:19] <zeeshan> but before i can register any movement on the end play dial indicator, i can notice
[21:08:38] <zeeshan> the belt trying to tighten from one side and loosening from the other side
[21:08:45] <zeeshan> its quite noticeable
[21:08:54] <CaptHindsight> you need to tighten things up
[21:09:00] <zeeshan> i mean its normal for one side to have more tension than the other, but it shouldnt move that much
[21:09:26] Loetmichel2 is now known as Loetmichel
[21:11:01] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: no it should be tight, like a timing belt for camshafts
[21:11:12] <zeeshan> i agree
[21:11:13] <CaptHindsight> any play and the timing is off
[21:11:21] <zeeshan> but im saying if you measure the forces in the belt
[21:11:27] <zeeshan> you'll always find that it doesnt have equal tension on both sides
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[21:11:32] <zeeshan> thats just the nature of the beast
[21:11:32] <CaptHindsight> and the mill moves CW and CCW
[21:12:18] <pcw_home> is the belt old or has it been replaced?
[21:12:28] <zeeshan> its what came with the machine
[21:12:56] <CaptHindsight> your play/lash will always be as much as the amount of stretch in the belt +/- any ratios in gearing/ screws etc
[21:13:13] <zeeshan> yea CaptHindsight
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[21:13:55] <zeeshan> i don't see an apparent way to tension these belts.
[21:13:55] <CaptHindsight> how far apart are the pulleys from the screws and motors?
[21:13:57] <zeeshan> other than moving the motor
[21:14:02] <pcw_home> the scale/servo will fix most things but play/spring messes up dynamic performance
[21:14:23] <mrsun> hm i dont get it with these mesa cards .. what kind of driver do you use for a servo motor for example in conjunction with them ? if you get the encoder feedback to the pc insted of the drive directly getting it ?
[21:14:26] <zeeshan> capt about 12"
[21:15:00] <pcw_home> depends on the drive, analog, PWM, step/dir are options
[21:16:26] <mrsun> its a jungle.. :/ realy all i want is to even tho i have a self containing drive ..give the encoder feedback to linuxcnc ... as if i start losing position and the drive errors out ..linuxcnc doesnt know at all even then where the heck the machine is
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[21:16:34] <mrsun> the encoder has to go back into the pc system
[21:17:00] <mrsun> be it mesa card .. or some kind of direct feedback using a parport or whatever =)
[21:18:21] <zeeshan> i must be retarded
[21:18:31] <zeeshan> or mikron is
[21:18:33] <zeeshan> there is no way to tension the belts?
[21:18:50] <zeeshan> theyre relying on the free play on the bolt holes for the servo motor mounts.
[21:18:57] <CaptHindsight> no tension pulley?
[21:19:34] <zeeshan> oh
[21:19:39] <CaptHindsight> will your servo motor bearings handle that radial load?
[21:19:49] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i dont see why not
[21:19:51] <zeeshan> theyre beefy as hell
[21:20:01] <CaptHindsight> good
[21:20:17] <zeeshan> i wonder if the pulley has an eccentric built into it
[21:20:20] <zeeshan> which allows for tensioning
[21:20:30] <CaptHindsight> sounds like it like tightening an alternator on a small block chevy
[21:20:47] <zeeshan> my chevy motor has a proper tensioner
[21:20:48] <CaptHindsight> pry bar and tighten when uner tension :)
[21:20:51] <zeeshan> LOL
[21:21:06] <CaptHindsight> fancy you
[21:21:29] <CaptHindsight> now your mill needs one :)
[21:22:44] <pcw_home> mrsun: if you want to check a step motor system for stalling you can use a low res encoder read from a parallel port
[21:22:45] <pcw_home> and check if the (scaled) positions are within a error band
[21:23:51] <pcw_home> dont the belt specifications include a working tension?
[21:24:09] <zeeshan> they must
[21:24:12] <zeeshan> its a standard htd belt
[21:24:18] <zeeshan> i can tell its not tensioned
[21:24:26] <zeeshan> i dont need to measure it! :P
[21:24:31] <mrsun> pcw_home: well the drive will check for stalling realy ... and error out .. problem is that when there is no feedback directly to linuxcnc ... say for a very exaerated scenario it stalls cause its 0.5mm it couldnt move .. so when linuxcnc gets the error its already at 1.5mm .. but the actual move has only gone 1mm ... so when restarting everything will be 0.5mm off =)
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[21:25:14] <zeeshan> net axis.2.amp-enable-out hm2_5i25.7i77.........output01 hm2_5i25.7i77.........output03
[21:25:18] <mrsun> so even tho the drive gets the feedback it would be nice if linuxcnc got the same positional feedback =)
[21:25:20] <zeeshan> currently im disabling the brake like this.
[21:25:30] <zeeshan> when put output01 and output03 are active, brake is off.
[21:25:37] <pcw_home> mrsun: well get a servo (you can tell from zeeshan how much fun it is)
[21:25:40] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: the tensioner will take lots of play out of the belt, but you still need to capture the ballscrew ends properly
[21:25:47] <zeeshan> mrsun: dont do it!
[21:25:53] <mrsun> zeeshan: haha =)
[21:26:06] <Jymmmm> mrsun: DO IT!!! DO IT!!! DO IT!!!
[21:26:08] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i can live with 4 tenths error
[21:26:11] <zeeshan> :D
[21:26:19] <mrsun> tho rehoming isnt a big deal .. as long as stuff didnt go all the crap to hell when cutting :P
[21:26:20] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/linear-motion/importance-ballscrew-end-fixity
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[21:26:56] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: remember this baby has absolute encoders
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[21:27:18] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: yeah but your 4 tenths as measured are under what load and for how long with it just be 4 tenths
[21:27:22] <mrsun> zeeshan: whats wrong with servo systems then ? =)
[21:27:30] <pcw_home> Not unexpected to have some mechanical issues on a what? 25 year old machine
[21:27:35] <zeeshan> mrsun: coming from building a stepper machine
[21:27:43] <mrsun> zeeshan: hehe =)
[21:27:48] <zeeshan> servo is a huge learning leap
[21:27:51] <zeeshan> a _huge|_
[21:28:03] <zeeshan> and i have control system background
[21:28:09] <zeeshan> from school
[21:28:28] <mrsun> been looking at servero motors etc but i dont get it how to tie it together with linuxcnc as it seems that all drives i find for servos has internal encoder feedback . so i guess one would end up at the same problem as a closed loop stepper ... linuxcnc dont have a clue whats going on anyways :P
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[21:28:53] <zeeshan> they should have internal encoder feedback
[21:29:02] <ejnc> it's not that hard to wire the encoder signals to linuxcnc
[21:29:09] <zeeshan> you need that info to control the velocity loop i think.
[21:29:38] <zeeshan> mrsun: put that same signal in parallel to the 7i77 encoder inputs
[21:29:41] <mrsun> so you let the encoder signals go to the driver AND linuxcnc ?
[21:29:49] <ejnc> yes
[21:29:57] <mrsun> ahh that simplifies it a bit then i guess =)
[21:30:12] <zeeshan> pcw_home: you are right it is expected to have some mechanical issues :)
[21:30:14] <zeeshan> i'm not complaining
[21:30:20] <zeeshan> im suprised Y is mint
[21:30:29] <zeeshan> its within 0.0005 error during rapid
[21:30:38] <ejnc> The PID setup in the driver can be not-that-tight, and tune up in linuxcnc PID. This way bypasses two tight PID resonances
[21:30:46] <CaptHindsight> mrsun: I have some servo setup where the encoder signal go back to the servo amp/drive as well as the Mesa card
[21:30:54] <mrsun> 7i77 io card right ?
[21:31:02] <pcw_home> most drives that have local feedback can output encoder/simulated encoder signals to the controller
[21:31:06] <zeeshan> don't belittle it by calling it an io card!
[21:31:06] <zeeshan> :p
[21:31:07] <zeeshan> its more
[21:31:07] <ejnc> I have that setup with 7i43
[21:31:18] <mrsun> saw it now .. servo/io card
[21:31:23] <CaptHindsight> some of the servo drive/amp have built in features that use the encoders and hall sensors
[21:31:38] <CaptHindsight> eben though the drive has analog 10V input
[21:31:54] <zeeshan> i bet you could run a car's efi engine with a 7i77
[21:31:55] <zeeshan> lol
[21:32:07] <ejnc> Guys... Have I understood correctly that in order to use index latching homing, I set home_latch_vel and use_index? And this should home the axis to the index signal (rising edge)?
[21:32:45] <zeeshan> ejnc: my advice about homing is
[21:32:48] <zeeshan> try a bunch of settings.
[21:32:55] <CaptHindsight> heh
[21:32:57] <zeeshan> just trigger the home switch manually
[21:33:04] <zeeshan> and see if it's doing what you're asking it to do.
[21:33:08] <mrsun> going to a 7i77 i could wire up my steppers to that insted of parport and get encoder feedback etc ?
[21:33:12] <ejnc> don't have a home switch
[21:33:20] <zeeshan> shared home/limit switch
[21:33:35] <zeeshan> mrsun: i think you'll want 7i76 for steppers
[21:33:39] <ejnc> don't have limit switch :)
[21:35:35] <mrsun> zeeshan: but that doesnt seem to have encoder feedback ports ?
[21:36:01] <zeeshan> oh youre right
[21:36:04] <zeeshan> 7i77 has enc inputs
[21:36:16] <zeeshan> do your stepper drivers need a 0-10v signal to run?
[21:36:29] <mrsun> no
[21:36:33] <mrsun> they want step/dir
[21:36:48] <zeeshan> well the 7i77 is an analog output card
[21:36:51] <zeeshan> it outputs 0-10v
[21:36:56] <zeeshan> -10 to 10v
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[23:02:57] <zeeshan> what is going on with this
[23:03:01] <zeeshan> loadrt oneshot count=1
[23:03:01] <zeeshan> setp oneshot.0.width 5
[23:03:16] <zeeshan> net z-enable => oneshot.0.in
[23:03:23] <zeeshan> when i trigger z-enable
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[23:03:47] <zeeshan> and monitor oneshot.0.out and oneshot.0.time-left
[23:03:56] <zeeshan> time-left doesnt start counting down.
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[23:11:24] <pcw_home> did you addf the oneshot comp to the servo thread
[23:11:30] <zeeshan> no
[23:11:40] <zeeshan> whoops
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[23:13:55] <zeeshan> that worked
[23:13:55] <zeeshan> thank you
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[23:16:26] <pcw_home> hal files could use a syntax checker for warning of RT functions not attached to a thread, single node nets etc
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[23:17:01] <zeeshan> hehe
[23:17:08] <zeeshan> would help!
[23:17:46] <zeeshan> net oneshot.0.out => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-03
[23:17:53] <zeeshan> is there a way to get around this
[23:18:05] <zeeshan> wont work cause theyre both outputs
[23:18:39] <pcw_home> net foobar oneshot.0.out => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-03
[23:18:57] <pcw_home> net statements need signal names
[23:19:00] <zeeshan> ah
[23:19:31] <pcw_home> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-03 is an input (from the hal side of things)
[23:20:06] <zeeshan> while oneshot.0.out is an output
[23:20:07] <zeeshan> okay
[23:20:57] <pcw_home> I kind of wished the anonymous net name idea was implemented
[23:21:35] <pcw_home> (often you dont really need another signal name when just connecting pins)
[23:22:35] <zeeshan> yea i dont see why you need to specify a name in this instance
[23:23:19] <zeeshan> thisis kinda working one way
[23:23:27] <zeeshan> when enable the drive, it disables the relay after 5 sec
[23:23:36] <zeeshan> but when i disable the drive, it doesnt doanything
[23:23:38] <zeeshan> leaves everything off
[23:23:57] <zeeshan> ill leave it like this.
[23:23:58] <zeeshan> its safer
[23:24:15] <zeeshan> itll keep brake powered if amps are disabled
[23:25:52] <pcw_home> only thing is you might want to find out is if the brake is rated for continuous energization
[23:26:06] <zeeshan> there was no mention of this
[23:26:09] <zeeshan> at all in the manual
[23:26:23] <zeeshan> it just says "current must be passed to disable brake"
[23:27:17] <pcw_home> yeah and that sounds like they are talking about a standard "energize to release" brake
[23:27:39] <zeeshan> it might be safer to just keep the brake energized
[23:27:45] <zeeshan> for both disabling and enabling
[23:27:51] <zeeshan> rather than have no current passing through it at anygiven time
[23:28:07] <zeeshan> what if the brake decides to engage whileim rapiding for some reason
[23:28:16] <pcw_home> unless it burns up :-(
[23:28:31] <zeeshan> haha
[23:28:35] <zeeshan> it hasnt burned up yet!
[23:28:54] <zeeshan> poor thing getting abused
[23:29:13] <pcw_home> can you get to the brake to test its temperature?
[23:29:14] <zeeshan> i left the machine in machine power off state for about 6 hours yesterday night
[23:29:19] <zeeshan> brake was engaged the entire time
[23:29:25] <zeeshan> no
[23:29:33] <zeeshan> based on its location in the motor housing in the diagram
[23:29:41] <zeeshan> i touched around that area and it was not warm
[23:30:15] <pcw_home> OK so that sounds like it OK with continuous duty
[23:31:15] <zeeshan> this oneshot component will be so beneficial for lubrication
[23:31:43] <zeeshan> just need to keep looping it
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[23:36:33] <JT-Shop> I find it easier to use classicladder to run my lube pump after x min of moving
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[23:43:37] <Jymmm> Cutting clay draining pipe without cracking... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0CjCHPkTp0
[23:43:44] <Jymmm> drainage
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[23:51:06] <zeeshan> JT-Shop, havent used cl yet
[23:55:38] <Jymmm> Ok, I'm confused... Why would you NOT use cement on 4" pvc drain pipe joints? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLhWbcl3o0g
[23:58:20] <DaViruz> seems he's got PE and PVC confused
[23:58:38] <DaViruz> PVC in the title, but he says PE and the description says PE
[23:59:12] <Jymmm> That doens't look like PE pipe, and I've only seen PVC and ABS pipe in the stores