#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-16

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[00:45:17] <XXCoder> hMM
[00:45:27] <XXCoder> Someone dinged me here but log had rolled over
[00:46:37] <_methods> ..........freenode
[00:47:16] <_methods> i tried playin with electro etching
[00:47:19] <_methods> pretty damn cool
[00:47:21] <roycroft> so, folks in the us:
[00:47:23] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bsf1gt0pktnqeil/2015-01-15%2018.04.47.jpg?dl=0
[00:47:23] <roycroft> i was just at costco
[00:47:37] <roycroft> they have snap-on 2000 lumen led work lights for $33.99
[00:47:43] <roycroft> those suckers are bright
[00:47:47] <XXCoder> roycroft: yeah!!
[00:47:53] <XXCoder> I got one too. so damn bright
[00:47:56] <roycroft> i picked one up, and when my costco gift card arrives i'm going to get some more
[00:48:08] <roycroft> good bye hot halogen lights
[00:48:09] <_methods> http://imgur.com/Et5dPmj
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[00:48:15] <_methods> for the dropbox fearful
[00:48:46] <_methods> wow i need one of those lights i guess i need to go hit costco
[00:48:52] <LeelooMinai_> Does beer speed up the process?
[00:48:58] <_methods> no idea
[00:48:58] <XXCoder> I want 2 or more but nah cant afford lol
[00:49:03] <_methods> but i drink it anyways lol
[00:49:04] <XXCoder> I WILL regred it lol
[00:49:07] <XXCoder> regret
[00:49:11] LeelooMinai_ is now known as LeelooMinai
[00:49:36] <roycroft> as a brewer, i can say that beer does not speed up any process, except the getting drunk proces
[00:49:37] <roycroft> s
[00:49:45] <_methods> heheh
[00:49:48] <roycroft> however, beer makes doing many things more pleasant
[00:49:53] <_methods> it's an integral part of my life
[00:50:14] <roycroft> a long process does not seem to be taking as long if you're happy
[00:50:53] Rab_ is now known as Rab
[00:51:15] <_methods> i did that one at 2 amps
[00:51:22] <_methods> i did this other owl at 20 amps lol
[00:51:28] <_methods> http://imgur.com/FukOVWz
[00:51:32] <PetefromTn_> Wow electricity, fluids, and Beer great combination!!
[00:51:57] <_methods> heheh
[00:52:06] <_methods> better than explosives, fluids and beer
[00:52:16] <_methods> that's what i used to do lol
[00:52:36] <roycroft> petefromtn_: my new brew system control panel has 250vac/50a going through it
[00:52:48] <roycroft> so i have that combo of electricity, fluids, and beer going every time i brew
[00:52:56] <PetefromTn_> light it up man.... just don't light yerself up heh
[00:53:01] <roycroft> that's why i built a lot of safety features into the panel
[00:53:01] <_methods> some people do sex,drugs and rock and roll
[00:53:14] <roycroft> and, of course, i installed a gfci circuit for it
[00:53:15] * furrywolf doesn't like drugs, so sticks to the other two
[00:53:25] <_methods> i love drugs
[00:53:32] <_methods> some assholes made them illegal though
[00:53:38] <furrywolf> girls with strapons while listening to rock and roll? great fun. :P
[00:54:10] <robertm> XXCoder: it was mrsun asking you about linuxcnc switching from ubuntu to debian.
[00:54:12] <_methods> .................
[00:54:19] <XXCoder> oh
[00:54:39] * _methods is scared
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[00:55:36] <_methods> cool thing is i have a never ending supply of little blanks to etch from teh trashcan at work lol
[00:56:01] <Rab> _methods, electroetching is awesome! I did this using a saltwater bath with aluminum: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/mark/p1000715.jpg
[00:56:18] <_methods> yeah i used salt water
[00:56:21] <Rab> Gallery of random pics: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/mark/
[00:56:34] <_methods> oh shit
[00:56:37] <_methods> wow that's awesome
[00:56:58] <PetefromTn_> how does that work>
[00:57:00] <Rab> Why is your electrolyte so dark?
[00:57:13] <PetefromTn_> he spilled his beer in it
[00:57:24] <_methods> cause i was etching every randome thing i could find lol
[00:57:33] <_methods> i was tryign to remove rust with it too lol
[00:57:47] <PetefromTn_> how do you get the design in it?
[00:57:56] <Rab> Any kind of resist.
[00:58:08] <_methods> i have a vinyl cutter
[00:58:18] <_methods> got it at auction for $100 lol
[00:58:23] <furrywolf> toner transfer seems to work, judging from the iron in one of the pictures.
[00:58:34] <Rab> The reaction is pretty active, so the resist needs to be pretty good. I used toner transfer, which had a lot of pinholes unless I touched it up with paint.
[00:58:41] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sh453l36r3e5vb2/2014-05-08%2017.52.02.jpg?dl=0
[00:58:42] <PetefromTn_> jeez man how come I am the only one without all the cool toys...?
[00:58:53] <_methods> hell for $100 i couldn't let it go
[00:59:01] <PCW_> whee tossing 3000 BNC connectors!
[00:59:02] <furrywolf> I have a vinyl cutter too... never used it. it's one of the many "when I have time" projects.
[00:59:09] <Rab> PetefromTn_, you probably have a DC power supply and some table salt. ^_^
[00:59:10] <furrywolf> got it for $25 at a yardsale. cheapo chinese unit.
[00:59:32] <_methods> yeah i used a battery charger and some salt water
[00:59:33] <XXCoder> gonna love this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x12ZfLJxPl4
[00:59:44] <PetefromTn_> heh I don't even have the DC power supply unless my little shitass battery charger counts..
[00:59:48] <_methods> and my vinyl cutter for the design
[00:59:56] <_methods> that does count
[00:59:57] <Rab> PetefromTn_, totally counts.
[00:59:59] <_methods> it's what i used
[01:00:28] <PetefromTn_> but you need to print the design and apply and you are removing everything that is NOT the design?
[01:00:29] <Rab> _methods, are those medallions aluminum?
[01:00:31] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: pfft so says guy with working machine
[01:00:43] <_methods> no they are stainless
[01:00:51] <_methods> http://imgur.com/UNO7EXL
[01:00:52] <Rab> PetefromTn_, everything that is bare gets etched.
[01:01:01] <_methods> my $100 vinyl cutter lol
[01:01:15] <_methods> not pretty but it works
[01:01:38] <PetefromTn_> so the owl and dude on fire were negatives or positives?
[01:01:40] <Rab> _methods, oh, wow! I tried doing stainless and it didn't work, just pulled one of the alloy elements out along the grain boundaries. Made a weird crystalline finish.
[01:02:02] <_methods> well i tried both positive and negative
[01:02:20] <_methods> that good flaming dude was negative i guess?
[01:02:27] <PetefromTn_> Damn that Calzone was good..
[01:02:28] <_methods> not sure what is positive and negative lol
[01:02:39] <Rab> I use ferric chloride for etching ss, but electroetch would sure be cheaper.
[01:02:50] <_methods> i just used salt water
[01:03:06] <Rab> How long did you etch?
[01:03:14] <_methods> i wanted aluminum but the laser operator dumped the bin
[01:03:16] <PetefromTn_> how many beers?
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[01:03:19] <_methods> hahah
[01:03:26] <_methods> the owl was 5 min at 20 amps
[01:03:35] <_methods> the flaming guy was 2 amps for an unknown time lol
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[01:05:09] <_methods> copied the sticker i made for my laptop
[01:05:19] <_methods> http://i.imgur.com/k52SWSs.jpg
[01:05:57] <_methods> i can't wait to etch some aluminum now
[01:06:26] <_methods> man it's going to make doing face plates fun now
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[01:06:51] <_methods> Rab: have you tried anodizing after electro etching?
[01:07:40] <Rab> _methods, ironically, I decided etching was too labor-intensive for faceplates, and have been working on CNC engraving instead; which is why I'm here.
[01:08:15] <PetefromTn_> that is ironic..
[01:08:22] <Rab> _methods, never tried anodizing aluminum. I would like to anodize titanium, which is apparently safe and easy, but there's no good way to etch it...has to be machined.
[01:08:37] <XXCoder> _methods: lovely etch
[01:08:46] <Jymmm> Rab: YaG Laser
[01:08:59] <XXCoder> Rab: any way to andoize only parts you want?
[01:09:33] <Rab> XXCoder, I believe selective anodizing is possible. There's a company that makes really slick faceplates that way.
[01:09:43] <Jymmm> Rab: Titanium ring YaG laser engraved http://i51.tinypic.com/2zfsqzd.jpg
[01:10:01] <Rab> The resist would have to hold up to the acidic anodizing process, though.
[01:10:01] <XXCoder> jy nice
[01:10:13] <XXCoder> rab yeah I bet
[01:10:17] <Rab> Jymmm, sweet.
[01:10:36] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Not my work, I only have wet dreams of owning a $60,000 USD YaG laser
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[01:10:47] <XXCoder> too bad lol
[01:10:55] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Tel me about it.
[01:11:23] <Rab> Metalphoto is what I'm thinking of: http://www.horizonsisg.com/metalphoto.html
[01:11:26] <Jymmm> Rab: But the guy that made that it's all he does
[01:11:37] <Jymmm> jewlery
[01:11:39] <PetefromTn_> I'm sure SSI could build you one....oh wait...nevermind hehe
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[01:11:55] <XXCoder> havent seen ssi here for a bit
[01:13:09] <Rab> Hmm, the metalphoto process only seems to be black...but pretty sure I've seen full color anodized graphics.
[01:13:39] <Rab> Guessing inkjet-painted dyes during the anodizing process.
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[01:14:22] <_methods> XXCoder: thx
[01:14:31] <_methods> but i can't claim that i did it on purpose lol
[01:14:41] <_methods> ssi was here this morning
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[01:15:09] <XXCoder> lol ok
[01:16:20] <_methods> it was my first time ever etching
[01:16:33] <XXCoder> pretty darn good job for first
[01:16:46] <_methods> but i must say my little brain is all brimming with etching ideas
[01:20:15] <XXCoder> fun :)
[01:20:22] <LeelooMinai> In a set like this: http://www.kbctools.ca/products/TOOLROOM%20ACCESSORIES/CLAMPING%20KITS/MACHINIST%20CLAMPING%20SETS/6534.aspx
[01:20:55] <LeelooMinai> If stud size is 5/16 is also the diameter on the bare part?
[01:21:01] <LeelooMinai> is it also*
[01:21:38] <LeelooMinai> I have an extrusion here and measured the "slot" to be 8.33mm - wonder if those 5/16 studs would fit there
[01:21:58] <_methods> 5/16-8
[01:22:15] <LeelooMinai> Right, I assume it's the thread on them, yes?
[01:22:36] <LeelooMinai> But I wonder what would be the diameter outside the thread area
[01:22:45] <LeelooMinai> Or is the thread on the whole length?
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[01:22:55] <_methods> 5/16=8?
[01:23:03] <LeelooMinai> What?
[01:23:12] <_methods> 5/16-8? is not normal
[01:23:26] <_methods> is 8 tpi normal fo4 5/16?
[01:23:27] <_methods> wtf
[01:23:57] <_methods> guess i'm just drunk
[01:24:08] <_methods> shouldn't it be 5/16-18?
[01:24:14] <LeelooMinai> 5/16 is 7.94mm, but in the table they say they are for table slot 3/8 which is 9.525mm, that's why I wonder if they will fit into my 8.33mm slots
[01:24:45] <_methods> http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/screws/unified.cfm?start=64&finish=147
[01:25:32] <LeelooMinai> That does not answer my question:)
[01:25:37] <_methods> yes it does
[01:25:41] <_methods> you just need to use a brain
[01:26:07] <_methods> what is the max od of 5/16-18
[01:26:17] <_methods> what is your t-slot size
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[01:26:43] <LeelooMinai> It must be that alcohol clouding your understanding what I wrote:p
[01:26:53] <PetefromTn_> BURN!!
[01:27:19] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVgXGw_XhRQ
[01:27:32] <LeelooMinai> _methods: I know what are sizes of threads. However, I don't know what diameter those studs have in the area that has contact with the slot.
[01:28:31] <_methods> ok so let's break this down barney style
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[01:28:43] <_methods> what is the width of the slot you're trying to fit in
[01:28:52] <LeelooMinai> For all I know, they can be thicker there to match better the 3/8 slot
[01:29:07] <LeelooMinai> _methods: Already told you: 8.33mm
[01:29:17] <_methods> so what is the diameter of the stud
[01:29:29] <LeelooMinai> Who knows?
[01:29:33] <PetefromTn_> I dunno I'm pretty wide..
[01:29:39] <LeelooMinai> That's why I asked
[01:29:48] <_methods> 5/16-18
[01:30:03] <LeelooMinai> That's the thread size
[01:30:20] <_methods> this is funny
[01:30:36] <XXCoder> isnt there shop with this special chart so you can find what types bolt and all
[01:30:36] <_methods> the max major diameter of a class 2a 5/16-18 is...............
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[01:30:47] <_methods> .3113"
[01:30:50] <XXCoder> I recently used one to find correct bolts for my car
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[01:31:04] <_methods> which for you is 7.9072
[01:31:06] <_methods> mm
[01:31:18] <_methods> which is smaller than the slot you'd like to have penetrated
[01:31:19] <LeelooMinai> _methods: I am not asking about the thread size, but what is diameter of those studs on the bottom, where the touch slots
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[01:31:32] <LeelooMinai> they*
[01:31:39] <PetefromTn_> you mean the tee nuts?
[01:31:48] <_methods> are you talking about tnuts you manaiac
[01:32:19] <LeelooMinai> I am talking about the end of the studs that goes into slots...
[01:32:30] <LeelooMinai> They are described as "studs wioth flats"
[01:32:36] <_methods> hahah
[01:32:51] <_methods> so those are called tnuts
[01:33:38] <LeelooMinai> What does it matter how they are called:) My question was if I can use this set.
[01:33:56] <_methods> the words matter
[01:33:59] <_methods> they mean things
[01:34:06] <LeelooMinai> And I don't think you are correct.
[01:34:08] <PetefromTn_> actually I see where she is talking about it is in the product details
[01:34:16] <tjtr33> a nut and a stud are two diff things. could you google up a picture?
[01:34:18] <PetefromTn_> it does say studs with flats
[01:34:19] <LeelooMinai> Because the set has t-slot nuts separatelly
[01:34:25] <_methods> https://www.grizzly.com/products/T-Slot-Nuts-pk-of-4-3-8-Slot-5-16-18/G9510
[01:34:31] <_methods> that may help you
[01:34:42] <PetefromTn_> which probably means it has a d shaft spot for a wrench or something..
[01:34:45] <LeelooMinai> _methods: I guess now I shall laugh at you:)
[01:34:58] <_methods> laugh away
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[01:35:51] <_methods> studs with flats lol
[01:35:52] <PetefromTn_> the tee nuts are for a 3/8 table slot
[01:36:02] <PetefromTn_> .375"
[01:36:10] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I guess those would be too big, but I wonder about those studs
[01:36:28] <PetefromTn_> which is like 9.25 mm or something
[01:36:33] <_methods> oh sweet jesus
[01:36:39] <LeelooMinai> 9.525
[01:36:47] <PetefromTn_> yeah whatever
[01:37:04] <PetefromTn_> bigger than you need is what I mant
[01:37:05] <PetefromTn_> meant
[01:38:02] <LeelooMinai> So what does a stud with flat look like?
[01:38:10] <_methods> that's what i want to know
[01:38:36] <_methods> http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=73101114
[01:38:36] <PetefromTn_> I was thinking it has flats for a wrench in the middle or something..
[01:38:39] <_methods> those are stud flats
[01:38:55] <jdh> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2718&category=11
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[01:39:34] <LeelooMinai> jdh: I don't think those are with flats... look just bare thread
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[01:39:46] <tjtr33> you hold the stuf while you tighten the top nut on the slotted bar clamp. so the dang stud doesnt drive into bottom of tnut channel. you've done this & seen them
[01:39:52] <jdh> yeah, but they look nice and are small
[01:39:53] <tjtr33> stud
[01:40:07] <LeelooMinai> But I live in Canada
[01:40:19] <_methods> i guess thats an excues
[01:40:24] <_methods> excuse even
[01:40:32] <LeelooMinai> So have to shop in places like KBC
[01:40:33] <tjtr33> you get special parking with that?
[01:40:58] <tjtr33> ;) joking
[01:42:12] <LeelooMinai> http://i.imgur.com/VWn8Bzc.png
[01:42:15] <_methods> http://3.imimg.com/data3/PK/PS/MY-4069139/clamping-stud-with-slot-250x250.jpg
[01:42:40] <LeelooMinai> Looks like the thread is not on the whole length there, and they have thicker cections
[01:42:41] <_methods> my link is a stud with tightening flats
[01:42:47] <_methods> jesus
[01:42:49] <PetefromTn_> yup that is what I thought it was talkint about.
[01:42:53] <_methods> it is
[01:43:10] <PetefromTn_> could not find a freakin' photo
[01:43:11] <jdh> glad we got that settled.
[01:43:19] <_methods> it's hardly settled i'm sure
[01:43:32] <zeeshan> back
[01:43:32] <_methods> i bet we can expect another 2 hours of insane questions
[01:43:46] <PetefromTn_> here's a lectric question for you guys...
[01:43:58] <tjtr33> right you hold the stud so it doesnt turn when tightening top nut. common
[01:44:05] <_methods> yes
[01:44:05] <PetefromTn_> I found a 7.5HP motor local
[01:44:11] <_methods> buy it
[01:44:13] <PetefromTn_> and it seems like it would work
[01:44:27] <PetefromTn_> but it is only 200 v not the 230v I have here in the shop
[01:44:40] <PetefromTn_> gonna run it with a sensorless vector drive like my Cinci
[01:44:42] <zeeshan> 208V you mean?
[01:44:43] <_methods> you probably only have 200v
[01:44:47] <PetefromTn_> does that mean I can't use it..
[01:44:52] <_methods> you can use it
[01:44:58] <zeeshan> methods america is 240v/120v
[01:44:59] <zeeshan> :P
[01:45:05] <PetefromTn_> standby
[01:45:15] <tjtr33> the voltage is usually not critical, japanese stuff is all 100 and 200 volt. i give no guarantees
[01:45:15] <_methods> you often see 240/230/208 interchangeable
[01:45:24] <_methods> and 220
[01:45:37] <zeeshan> i mean when it comes to motors
[01:45:45] <zeeshan> and 200 vs 240v
[01:45:49] <zeeshan> it means itll draw less current
[01:45:55] <zeeshan> so the only problem is insulation
[01:46:19] <zeeshan> you can use a fancy insulation meter!
[01:46:48] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-1587-Insulation-Multimeter-NEW-in-packaging-/181640285479
[01:46:54] <_methods> PetefromTn_: are you really getting 230v?
[01:46:54] <zeeshan> i wish i could find this for 80$
[01:47:04] <jdh> I get 240
[01:47:09] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/ezKXV5A.jpg
[01:47:34] <jdh> what are you running with it?
[01:47:34] <zeeshan> i personally think you'll be fine
[01:47:43] <PetefromTn_> yeah last time I checked I was getting like almost 230v
[01:47:48] <zeeshan> but i would personally also check what kind of ninsulation it uses
[01:48:04] <_methods> well it will work but it may run hotter
[01:48:16] <zeeshan> why hotter
[01:48:29] <malcom2073_> higher voltage higher current higher power (higher rpm)
[01:48:29] <zeeshan> er its induction
[01:48:56] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: you will be fine with the VFD
[01:49:04] <zeeshan> you can limit the maximum output of the voltage to 200
[01:49:05] <PetefromTn_> ya sure?
[01:49:07] <zeeshan> yea
[01:49:18] <zeeshan> youre thinking of the wj200?
[01:49:22] <zeeshan> similar to your mill
[01:49:25] <PetefromTn_> I know you can alter the voltage because my Cinci's motor is an odd one too..
[01:49:45] <PetefromTn_> not sure yet which VFD I am going with.
[01:49:51] <PetefromTn_> might even try that sumo one you got.
[01:50:07] <zeeshan> that ones good for 5hp i think
[01:50:25] <zeeshan> i just looked at 3 diff manuals
[01:50:31] <zeeshan> teco eaton and sumitomo
[01:50:36] <zeeshan> they all let you set output voltage
[01:50:40] <PetefromTn_> they have one for ten and 7.5 no?
[01:51:10] <zeeshan> they do
[01:51:13] <zeeshan> but its for 380-480v
[01:51:17] <zeeshan> input side
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[01:51:40] <PetefromTn_> I am getting a paycheck here today from the work I did in the part time job and I am HOPING I can pickup this motor and maybe the ballscrew for the Z...
[01:52:03] <PetefromTn_> damn that bites
[01:52:54] <_methods> why are snap on toolboxes so damn expensive
[01:53:22] <_methods> there's a crappy little one on craigslist and the guy is askin $1000 for it
[01:53:23] <PetefromTn_> they are nice but a serious ripoff If you ask me...
[01:53:47] <tjtr33> gerstner!
[01:54:16] <_methods> damn even the matco's are silly
[01:54:37] <zeeshan> _methods: theyre bulletproof
[01:54:39] <_methods> guess i'll just stick with my kennedy's
[01:54:39] <PetefromTn_> http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/embsanch/media/P1000276.jpg.html I got one of these used and it is really nice..
[01:54:45] <zeeshan> but i still wouldnt pay 7000 for em
[01:54:58] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: how much was that
[01:54:59] <zeeshan> that is nice.
[01:55:10] <_methods> hell yeah HF
[01:55:29] <zeeshan> _methods: i love my kennedy too!
[01:55:31] <zeeshan> which style do you have
[01:55:36] <PetefromTn_> I got it used for like $180.00 dunno what they cost new. They also make a nice upper for it I would like to get.
[01:55:37] <_methods> speakin of HF just got a 20% coupon
[01:55:38] <zeeshan> ive been keeping an eye for more.
[01:55:49] <zeeshan> http://www.zorocanada.com/i/G0161314/?gclid=Cj0KEQiA592lBRCXy8yl4bjK17wBEiQAg1Az_Tjyg6stjTrYj0tWeUXSPoiPDiVBzAGuqX5QSRf1QhcaAn3D8P8HAQ
[01:55:52] <zeeshan> that style?
[01:55:59] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: nice
[01:56:10] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: how much was the 200v motor
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[01:56:43] * zeeshan is about to position loop tune the X axis
[01:56:45] <zeeshan> im a bit nervous
[01:56:49] <zeeshan> since it's coupled.
[01:56:53] <_methods> http://imgur.com/IOv3vZl
[01:56:58] <PetefromTn_> http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_23442.jpg there it is with the upper on it..
[01:56:59] <_methods> that's my kennedy
[01:56:59] <zeeshan> methods nice!
[01:57:01] <zeeshan> same style as me
[01:57:03] <zeeshan> I LOVE IT
[01:57:17] <zeeshan> theyre expensive new though
[01:57:26] <zeeshan> you have 3000$ of toolbox there.
[01:57:30] <_methods> i paid $1000 for it full of tools
[01:57:38] <PetefromTn_> actually the guy is getting rid of a bunch of stuff and told me to make an offer...
[01:57:50] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: $50
[01:58:00] <PetefromTn_> I was thinking like $75.00
[01:58:06] <zeeshan> hey if its too low
[01:58:08] <zeeshan> he'll tell you
[01:58:11] <zeeshan> :)
[01:58:14] <PetefromTn_> I'm sure
[01:58:22] <PetefromTn_> could not hurt to try..
[01:58:34] <zeeshan> used motors dont have a huge market to be honest
[01:58:41] <zeeshan> ive tried to sell some. they take at least 3-4 months for me
[01:58:49] <zeeshan> even something common like 110v 1hp
[01:59:14] <PetefromTn_> I got another picture with the nameplate and at the bottom it actually says it was designed for 208v...
[01:59:19] <_methods> i should have bought this onewhen i got my lathe
[01:59:22] <_methods> http://imgur.com/4psOqFV
[01:59:29] <_methods> buy had no idea what it was
[01:59:32] <zeeshan> hahaha
[01:59:38] <zeeshan> they are a big decieving
[01:59:44] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16013598720/
[01:59:46] <_methods> s/buy/guy
[01:59:47] <zeeshan> you can see my setup there
[01:59:54] <zeeshan> the mill is gone
[01:59:59] <zeeshan> im thinking of putting an extension to it
[02:00:05] <PetefromTn_> I gotta say I was very surprised at how nice and smooth this box I have is. It is very well built and heavy..
[02:00:17] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: bb?
[02:00:36] <PetefromTn_> ?
[02:00:39] <zeeshan> ball bearing?
[02:00:42] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[02:00:53] <zeeshan> yea thats an issue with my kennedy
[02:00:56] <zeeshan> theyre not bb.
[02:01:03] <PetefromTn_> the huge top drawer basically holds ALL of my pneumatic tools of which I have a bunch
[02:01:05] <_methods> well snapon is just silly though
[02:01:08] <zeeshan> the cabinet with the angle plates 123 blocks etc iss heavy as hell
[02:01:19] <zeeshan> _methods: i used to think the same way
[02:01:20] <PetefromTn_> and that shit is heavy
[02:01:28] <zeeshan> but a mechanic basically buys that once in their life
[02:01:45] <zeeshan> is 5-7k worth for a tool box to them
[02:01:47] <zeeshan> yea i can see that
[02:02:01] <PetefromTn_> the top and bottom boxes in that line would be a real sweet setup..
[02:02:06] <jdh> and you can pay for it weekly
[02:02:33] <zeeshan> can you build it on your own for cheaper? :)
[02:02:34] <zeeshan> hell yea
[02:02:44] <zeeshan> https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/89bb95c1/dms3rep/multi/desktop/Mr-1439x1000.Big015.jpg
[02:02:49] <zeeshan> i drool when i look at this snapon set.
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[02:03:11] <_methods> buwhahahhaha
[02:03:13] <PetefromTn_> thats some serious money
[02:03:19] <zeeshan> i saw one of those setup in a race car trailer thing
[02:03:20] <_methods> have fun loading that up when you walk out]
[02:03:29] <_methods> fuck you i quit
[02:03:34] <zeeshan> LOL
[02:03:35] <_methods> hey can i borrow the forklift
[02:03:39] <zeeshan> haha
[02:04:05] <zeeshan> one thing you can never have all of
[02:04:08] <zeeshan> : tools
[02:04:13] <zeeshan> http://washingtonraceways.com/cam/toolbox2.JPG
[02:04:16] <zeeshan> thats a shitload of sockets
[02:04:20] <PetefromTn_> they actually loaded the box I have empty onto my truck with a forklift LOL
[02:04:43] <_methods> now that is a socket set
[02:04:45] <_methods> i nee dthat
[02:05:03] <_methods> gotta hit HF this wknd
[02:05:32] <_methods> ok this is actually interesting
[02:05:35] <_methods> http://charleston.craigslist.org/tls/4794379240.html
[02:05:43] <PetefromTn_> I removed the shiny metal drawer handle things so now it is all red.
[02:06:05] <_methods> done horribly
[02:06:13] <_methods> but it could be an interesting thing to make
[02:07:23] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: d oyou remember your servo tuning experience
[02:07:39] <zeeshan> did you get a runaway
[02:07:40] <PetefromTn_> a little
[02:07:49] <zeeshan> when doing position loop tuning
[02:08:16] <PetefromTn_> well yeah we did but it was because we had something backwards and I just slapped estop.
[02:08:48] <zeeshan> did it violently run away
[02:09:00] <PetefromTn_> define violently..
[02:09:05] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[02:09:09] <zeeshan> 200 ipm
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[02:09:31] <zeeshan> or did it go.. 5 ipm then 20 ipm then 50 ipm
[02:09:33] <PetefromTn_> we just manually moved the axes to center of travel before we tried things and then had hand on estop. plenty of time
[02:09:34] <zeeshan> like build up speed
[02:09:50] <malcom2073> Note to self: set max speed way down before position tuning servos
[02:09:54] <PetefromTn_> no it pretty well took off at what was probably 2-300 or so..
[02:10:03] <_methods> bewm
[02:10:07] <zeeshan> haha okay
[02:10:11] <zeeshan> i need two people then
[02:10:37] <PetefromTn_> like I said just be ready on the estop and make sure your limits are absolutely killing power...
[02:10:55] <zeeshan> oih good point
[02:10:58] <zeeshan> i havent tested limits yet
[02:11:15] <_methods> man i'd rather put wheels on a vidmar than pay for a snap on
[02:11:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah if you have them working other than the Z crashing it is at least somewhat safe.
[02:12:35] <PetefromTn_> just do one axis at a time and like I said move the axis to center of travel and be ready to kill it.
[02:12:52] <zeeshan> yes
[02:12:56] <zeeshan> might have trouble with Z
[02:12:59] <zeeshan> its crashed already
[02:13:11] <PetefromTn_> Z was a nail biter for us too...
[02:13:21] <zeeshan> its sitting on the bottom right now
[02:13:24] <zeeshan> the table that is
[02:13:34] <zeeshan> i tried moving the sprocket
[02:13:35] <zeeshan> i cant move it
[02:13:36] <zeeshan> too heavy
[02:13:44] <zeeshan> i think ill need to lift it up with a jack
[02:13:48] <zeeshan> and then try turning it
[02:13:58] <_methods> ouch
[02:14:07] <PetefromTn_> I was able to unscrew the attached motor and unplug it and turn it like a big knob lifting the millhead.
[02:14:27] <zeeshan> thats why im trying
[02:14:31] <PetefromTn_> it was actually a lot easier than you might think.
[02:14:34] <zeeshan> but your machine the head moves right?
[02:14:41] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[02:14:43] <zeeshan> my pulley is under the table
[02:14:47] <zeeshan> very hard to get hands on it
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[02:16:12] <zeeshan> where is jt
[02:16:17] <zeeshan> Set per axis following error limits wide enough to allow tuning (say 1 inch or 20 mm)
[02:16:22] <zeeshan> are you talking about soft limits
[02:16:30] <PetefromTn_> no
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[02:16:45] <PetefromTn_> thats your following error
[02:16:59] <PetefromTn_> if it is too tight it will fault out quickly
[02:17:27] <zeeshan> so i edit ferror and min_ferror
[02:18:16] <zeeshan> er
[02:18:20] <zeeshan> its AXIS.f-error
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[02:18:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah something like that I don't remember
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[02:21:40] <zeeshan> if you havent touched the PID stuff in pncconf
[02:21:48] <zeeshan> and you start up linuxcnc for the first time, are you in closed loop mode already
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[02:25:17] <PetefromTn_> http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4848985699.html
[02:26:41] <zeeshan> damn i found pcw's post
[02:26:43] <zeeshan> but i dont know what he means
[02:26:45] <zeeshan> 2. Next check (and possibly correct) feedback direction. There are many ways to do this and perhaps pncconf can help
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[02:27:47] <zeeshan> found another post :)
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[02:52:22] <PetefromTn_> ya know my lathe has a large steel plate that accepts the face mount motor. the motor sits horizontally underneath the bed with the pulley on the headstock side facing out. This motor is NOT a face mount motor and I am trying to decide if my fabricating a horizontal foot mount for the motor is worth the trouble or just getting a face mount motor despite not knowing and having not been able to determine the factory frame motor
[02:52:54] <zeeshan_> did you try measuring the bolt pattern
[02:52:58] <zeeshan_> for face mount
[02:53:41] <PetefromTn_> yeah discussed it here. It does not seem to match any typical motor mounts.
[02:53:44] <PetefromTn_> frames
[02:53:51] <zeeshan_> ah
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[02:55:51] <PetefromTn_> really need to find a face mount motor I think despite the good deal on this motor.
[02:56:08] <PetefromTn_> it would just be so much easier to adapt even if the plate is not exactly the right setup.
[02:56:21] <PetefromTn_> I could machine or fabricate or modify to make it work.
[02:56:37] <zeeshan_> i bought a 142 t motor i believe
[02:56:43] <zeeshan_> i bought a cframe adapter for it
[02:56:46] <zeeshan_> weg made one
[02:56:50] <zeeshan_> maybe you can do the sme?
[02:56:57] <zeeshan_> you just remove the 4 bolts
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[02:57:06] <Rab> zeeshan_, a friend of mine taught me how to use his 1940's SB lathe today...I turned a spindle bearing housing out of Al rod, it came out great.
[02:57:14] <zeeshan_> rab nice!
[02:57:58] <Rab> Never really saw the appeal of lathe vs mill, but it's actually a lot of fun. The threading setup was really cool.
[02:58:03] <PetefromTn_> hm never heard of one.
[02:58:25] <PetefromTn_> I find running manual lathes therapeutic heheh
[02:58:34] <zeeshan_> rab i am biased , i started off a lathe
[02:58:36] <zeeshan_> i like lathes
[03:00:13] <Rab> I got frustrated by price/performance of the two big ghetto spindle options, $100 palm router vs $300 chinese 3-phase spindle. So I'm going to experiment with making my own.
[03:00:32] <_methods> your own spindle?
[03:00:40] <zeeshan_> just stick a regular 3ph motor onthere
[03:00:40] <Rab> Yeah, for light work.
[03:00:41] <zeeshan_> :P
[03:00:52] <_methods> ghetto chinese
[03:01:26] <_methods> and save your time for doing other fun stuff
[03:01:35] <Rab> Some people seem very satisfied with the chinese spindles. But some people get a dud that costs too much to send back.
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[03:02:10] <_methods> well as long as you're doing light work you should be fine
[03:02:33] <_methods> i wouldn't try takin any 1" DOC 90% engagement cuts or anything with it
[03:02:46] <Rab> Yeah, using ER11 collets.
[03:03:22] <_methods> most people who are unhappy bought something they didn't understand
[03:03:51] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baldor-7-5-HP-Electric-motor-/251554420861?_trksid=p2054897.l4275 This is pretty much what I need only 1725RPm
[03:04:17] <_methods> if you think you're gonna fly a 5" face cutter on some AR46100 at .125" DOC with a chinese water cooled spindle you are mistaken
[03:05:08] <PetefromTn_> 5"!!!
[03:05:14] <zeeshan_> i am trying to verify encoder feedback position. not having luck finding the pin
[03:05:21] <zeeshan_> is axis.0.f-error the "feedback error"
[03:05:31] <_methods> hehe
[03:05:58] <zeeshan_> its the only one seeming to give me numbers.
[03:06:09] <PetefromTn_> they have a SWEET 2.5" facemill at the shop I work in part time that leaves an absolutely STUNNING finish on copper and aluminum... I WANT IT!!
[03:06:33] <PetefromTn_> looks like polished metal I swear...
[03:06:51] <_methods> tarantula?
[03:07:16] <PetefromTn_> ya know I never looked to see what kind it is hehe I need to inspect it next time I am over there.
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[03:07:48] <_methods> does it hold dnmg inserts?
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[03:09:20] <_methods> http://www.cutwel.co.uk/filedepository/product-images/milling/indexable-milling/pro-x-mill-for-aluminium/thumbnails/PAXCM-1_800_800_140729114649.JPG
[03:09:26] <_methods> i used to use something like that
[03:09:33] <_methods> but it held dnmg's
[03:09:52] <PetefromTn_> It uses something similar yeah they look kinda trapezoidal..
[03:10:02] <_methods> yeah
[03:10:10] <_methods> leaves a great finish on bronze and copper
[03:10:23] <_methods> i just used traditional geometry inserts on alum
[03:10:55] <PetefromTn_> no we were using aluminum specific inserts
[03:11:03] <_methods> but it was a great mill because we would take the old dead dnmg's and use them on that mill
[03:11:07] <PetefromTn_> the parts I was making were solid copper plate
[03:11:31] <_methods> no good for lathe but still good for the tarantula
[03:11:32] <_methods> lol
[03:11:33] <furrywolf> copper plate is way, way too expensive for me to play with.
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[03:12:32] <PetefromTn_> amazing finish really blew my mind I thought I could get a nice finish with my flycutter but this is another level... we did not check the actual finish they don't have the tools for that there.
[03:12:53] <_methods> ah no profilometer
[03:13:25] <PetefromTn_> yeah this was 3/4 inch plate stock. we had ops on all six sides and lots of pockets and tapped holes
[03:13:33] <_methods> good stuff
[03:13:37] <PetefromTn_> I don't want to even guess what they charged for that part
[03:13:59] <PetefromTn_> I don't think they have one but I honeslty just started working there so I don't know what all they have.
[03:17:31] <PetefromTn_> that insert cutter only had four inserts believe it or not... I need to find out what it was.
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[03:18:02] <zeeshan_> why is halscope not working
[03:18:02] <zeeshan_> :(
[03:26:32] * furrywolf has never used halscope, so can't be of use there
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[03:33:27] <zeeshan_> i didnt have it set right
[03:33:27] <zeeshan_> hehe
[03:33:57] <PetefromTn_> shits complicated huh... I know it boggles my mind sometimes.
[03:34:06] <zeeshan_> yea man
[03:34:11] <zeeshan_> my brain has been overheating
[03:34:20] <zeeshan_> prolly a good thing cause its 50f in thegarage
[03:35:58] <Rab> zeeshan_, http://i.imgur.com/nXulF9l.jpg
[03:36:42] <zeeshan_> http://i.imgur.com/bx5f2ZN.png
[03:36:44] <zeeshan_> whats going on here
[03:36:52] <zeeshan_> why does my axis ferror look weird
[03:37:08] <zeeshan_> thats an awesome surface finish dude
[03:38:02] <Rab> Heh...the outside wasn't turned, just buffed.
[03:38:11] <zeeshan_> oh
[03:38:12] <zeeshan_> lol
[03:38:31] <PetefromTn_> how ya gonna hold onto that thing?
[03:38:33] <Rab> But the faced ends have the same finish.
[03:38:43] <Rab> PetefromTn_, some kinda clamp.
[03:38:54] <PetefromTn_> angulars?
[03:39:02] <zeeshan_> pete you seen this graph before lol
[03:39:14] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[03:39:22] <zeeshan_> did it look thatbefore you tuned P?
[03:39:24] <Rab> PetefromTn_, maybe a clamp like I made for my spiral saw: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/holderfinished.jpg
[03:39:52] <Rab> Probably from aluminum though.
[03:41:16] <PetefromTn_> I don't remember really man I am sorry. We only used the Halscope to check signals. Mostly we just enabled an axis and played with the PID settings until we got it running smooth kind of play it by ear.
[03:42:01] <PetefromTn_> rab sounds like a plan.
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[03:47:27] <pcw_home> Looks like no P and too low FF1 (would be helpful if axis.0.motor-pos-fb was plotted)
[03:48:03] <zeeshan_> pcw_home whats a typical P value
[03:48:05] <zeeshan_> im at 8 right now.
[03:48:32] <zeeshan_> its starting to match joint-vel-cmd
[03:49:17] <zeeshan_> after a certain p lets say
[03:49:18] <zeeshan_> 20
[03:49:22] <zeeshan_> if i oscillate there
[03:49:27] <zeeshan_> ill even oscillate at 35?
[03:49:33] <pcw_home> Typical P depends on the output scale value
[03:49:40] <zeeshan_> (trying to figure out what numbers to increment by)
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[03:50:41] <pcw_home> yes once it starts to oscillate it will just get worse with more P
[03:50:47] <zeeshan_> okay
[03:50:49] <zeeshan_> i havent hit yet
[03:51:12] <pcw_home> you can adjust FF1 with a low P value
[03:52:29] <zeeshan_> just following jt's guide
[03:52:31] <zeeshan_> ill be lost otherwise
[03:52:35] <zeeshan_> unless you had a pcw guide :)
[03:52:43] <zeeshan_> he says to tune P till oscillation
[03:52:47] <zeeshan_> then FF1 till no error
[03:52:55] <pcw_home> what is your current limit set for? it shoudl probably be set all the way up for those motors
[03:52:59] <zeeshan_> well minium error
[03:53:05] <pcw_home> (20A?)
[03:53:09] <zeeshan_> no
[03:53:17] <zeeshan_> 12.5 continuous for Z
[03:53:22] <zeeshan_> and 6.4A for X and Y
[03:53:35] <zeeshan_> i just set it to what the name plate of the motor said
[03:53:45] <zeeshan_> nameplate for z was 13.6
[03:53:50] <zeeshan_> so i set that to max for drive
[03:54:02] <pcw_home> note that a 13A cont motor will want about 40A peak
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[03:54:51] <zeeshan_> damn
[03:54:56] <pcw_home> so if you can get more from your drives its good
[03:55:12] <zeeshan_> unfortunately my Z is 25A peak
[03:55:30] <zeeshan_> if the motor name plate says 6.5A
[03:55:35] <zeeshan_> for continuous
[03:55:43] <zeeshan_> thats my limit right?
[03:55:59] <zeeshan_> peak for that motor is set to 2x that value
[03:56:27] <pcw_home> about 3x peak is conservative (some will take 4 or 5x)
[03:56:38] <zeeshan_> basically im not getting as much torque
[03:56:41] <zeeshan_> by limiting it
[03:56:53] <zeeshan_> why did you make the comment about torque?
[03:56:57] <zeeshan_> i mean current
[03:57:02] <zeeshan_> did you see something in the screenshot?
[03:57:47] <zeeshan_> im at a P of 100!
[03:57:51] <zeeshan_> still no oscillation
[03:58:14] <pcw_home> is the following error getting small?
[03:58:23] <furrywolf> might never oscillate if your motor current is too low...
[03:58:25] <zeeshan_> yes
[03:58:29] <zeeshan_> im at 20m/div right now
[03:58:53] <pcw_home> at this point you may want to adjust FF1
[03:59:15] <zeeshan_> how come i havent hit oscillation pcw
[03:59:22] <zeeshan_> er just read furry's comment
[03:59:29] <zeeshan_> the peak of my drives isn't enough?
[03:59:34] <zeeshan_> hey.
[03:59:39] <zeeshan_> it's oscillating when sitting at idle.
[03:59:42] <furrywolf> doesn't matter how fast the software tries to move if the motors don't. :)
[04:00:05] <zeeshan_> whats going on here
[04:00:47] <zeeshan_> nm
[04:00:50] <zeeshan_> i hit oscillation
[04:00:52] <zeeshan_> at 200
[04:02:03] <zeeshan_> lemme post pic
[04:03:25] <zeeshan_> this comp is so slow
[04:03:34] <furrywolf> what specs?
[04:03:41] <zeeshan_> a7v400mx
[04:03:44] <zeeshan_> athlon xp 3200+
[04:04:28] <furrywolf> ... that's not that slow.
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[04:05:37] <furrywolf> until a couple months ago my main box was a 1.3ghz celeron...
[04:05:58] <zeeshan_> mine was a 486
[04:05:59] <zeeshan_> :D
[04:06:03] <zeeshan_> ahaha remember though
[04:06:40] <zeeshan_> http://i59.tinypic.com/2rx7i21.png
[04:06:44] <zeeshan_> heres with P of 180
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[04:08:14] <pcw_home> needs ;ess P gain and I think more FF1
[04:09:11] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, if i no oscillation below 150
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[04:09:19] <zeeshan_> and say oscillation at 155
[04:09:23] <zeeshan_> should i set it to 140?
[04:09:30] <zeeshan_> to have a safe buffer?
[04:09:48] <pcw_home> I would set it to ~100
[04:10:01] <zeeshan_> okay
[04:10:07] <furrywolf> hrmm, I just heard a rather impressive BOOM out towards town, and looking out that way, I don't see any lights at all.
[04:10:26] <zeeshan_> error grew at 100
[04:10:31] <zeeshan_> now im playing with FF1.
[04:10:46] <zeeshan_> i have no idea what increments to start with
[04:10:50] <pcw_home> Sure but that error you fix with FF1
[04:10:57] <zeeshan_> yes
[04:11:00] <pcw_home> what is it now?
[04:11:07] <zeeshan_> the error?
[04:11:10] <zeeshan_> er
[04:11:10] <zeeshan_> 0
[04:11:12] <pcw_home> FF1
[04:11:24] <pcw_home> try .1
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[04:11:47] <zeeshan_> i wont get run away anymore right
[04:12:10] <zeeshan_> .1 didnt do much
[04:12:15] <pcw_home> no, you have negative feedback (a good thing)
[04:12:24] <pcw_home> .5
[04:12:43] <zeeshan_> going down
[04:12:50] <zeeshan_> went down by ...
[04:12:57] <zeeshan_> 2.5m/div
[04:12:57] <zeeshan_> :)
[04:13:23] <zeeshan_> okay i can see the trench
[04:13:24] <zeeshan_> trend
[04:13:28] <zeeshan_> .5 makes big differences
[04:13:48] <furrywolf> wandered out towards the road... closest lights I see, other than one house up the road, is the airport, and they have a backup genny. power is out for a wide area. It was a good boom. might have been a substation...
[04:14:23] <pcw_home> maybe a transformer blew
[04:14:28] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, how much is acceptable
[04:15:02] <zeeshan_> okay
[04:15:06] <zeeshan_> going from 2.5 to 2.75
[04:15:09] <zeeshan_> the error flipped sides.
[04:15:27] <furrywolf> normally I find my off-grid in-the-hills solar system to be an annoyance, but it's times like this where it's nice to be the only person with power rather than the other way around. :P
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[04:16:04] <pcw_home> yeah too much FF1 and position leads instead of lags
[04:16:17] <zeeshan_> i see a spike
[04:16:25] <zeeshan_> towards positive side with 2.6
[04:17:04] <zeeshan_> screenshot comingup.
[04:17:08] <pcw_home> you should see spikes during accell
[04:17:34] <pcw_home> these can be somewhat tuned out with FF2
[04:19:12] <pcw_home> a boom probably indicates power will be off for a while...
[04:19:28] <zeeshan_> ahha
[04:19:39] <furrywolf> outage map shows it's only the area I can see down the road, and it's on after that... so probably a local transformer went.
[04:20:08] <zeeshan_> http://i62.tinypic.com/2dvr87l.png
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[04:20:24] <zeeshan_> is that okay
[04:21:09] <pcw_home> looks pretty good for a start (that little spike is probably stiction)
[04:21:49] <zeeshan_> do i need more ff1?
[04:21:55] <pcw_home> and FF1 can probably be dialed in a bit more
[04:22:10] <pcw_home> yeah a bit
[04:22:28] <pcw_home> center that noise on 0
[04:23:30] <zeeshan_> that didnt take much
[04:23:34] <zeeshan_> went from 2.55 to 2.6
[04:24:21] <pcw_home> you can see that tuning velocity mode drives is not that hard
[04:24:33] <zeeshan_> it is
[04:24:38] <zeeshan_> for a first timer
[04:24:52] <zeeshan_> i can see why modeling helps
[04:24:59] <zeeshan_> it gets you in the ball park
[04:25:05] <zeeshan_> or helps you tune things whereyou cant do trial and error
[04:25:18] <zeeshan_> http://i62.tinypic.com/mrzqj5.png
[04:25:24] <zeeshan_> that look good to your expert eyes? :)
[04:26:05] <pcw_home> pretty decent
[04:26:42] <furrywolf> lights and sirens now. yay.
[04:27:19] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, that is it?
[04:27:31] <zeeshan_> i dont need to use FF2?
[04:27:38] <zeeshan_> since i dont have overshoot
[04:27:55] <pcw_home> you may when you increase you acceleration
[04:28:03] <pcw_home> your
[04:28:11] <zeeshan_> hm
[04:28:15] <zeeshan_> im at max vel of 60ipm
[04:28:31] <pcw_home> you are not pushing it very hard...
[04:28:55] <zeeshan_> i dont know what to set my accel to
[04:29:06] <zeeshan_> this machine is supposed to rapid at 300 ipm
[04:29:10] <zeeshan_> im gonna set it for 250
[04:29:43] <pcw_home> accel looks like 120 or so
[04:29:57] <zeeshan_> what should it be :D
[04:30:15] <pcw_home> should be much higher but ease up to it
[04:30:25] <zeeshan_> i need to set that in the ini right
[04:30:27] <zeeshan_> cant do it live
[04:30:42] <pcw_home> you can do it live
[04:30:52] <pcw_home> with a setp
[04:30:55] <furrywolf> if it's supposed to do 300... set it to 300!
[04:31:01] <zeeshan_> lol furry
[04:31:02] <zeeshan_> buffer :D
[04:31:18] <furrywolf> I'll be happy to reliably see >60 on my machine. heh.
[04:32:16] <zeeshan_> ok accel is set to 2.0 in/s^2
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[04:32:51] <pcw_home> yeah 120 ipm/s
[04:33:43] <zeeshan_> again i think this is a place where experience helps
[04:33:47] <zeeshan_> no idea how much to increment by
[04:34:15] <pcw_home> try 10
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[04:35:06] <pcw_home> thats 1/2 second to full speed
[04:35:21] <furrywolf> might want to play with your max current before setting the acceleration
[04:35:36] <zeeshan_> furrywolf, max current is set
[04:35:38] <zeeshan_> already
[04:36:29] <zeeshan_> current limits that is
[04:36:38] <furrywolf> I thought you said about you were running them well below max? heh
[04:36:41] <furrywolf> above
[04:36:59] <zeeshan_> 6.5 is motor spec
[04:37:02] <zeeshan_> its set to 6.5A
[04:37:05] <zeeshan_> on the drive current limit
[04:37:06] <pcw_home> 1/2 second to 300 IPM that should not be pushing it too hard, but it would be nice to have the original specs
[04:37:27] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, unforunately nothing for accel.
[04:37:51] <pcw_home> a 6.5 amp motor should have a bout a 20A Current limit in the drive
[04:38:01] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, amc is kinda weird..
[04:38:04] <zeeshan_> oh
[04:38:05] <zeeshan_> really?
[04:38:10] <zeeshan_> continuous current limit?
[04:38:45] <zeeshan_> Amc drives does this: if 6.5A continuous limit is set, it sets 13A peak
[04:39:02] <zeeshan_> you cant change that
[04:39:20] <pcw_home> Is that the max?
[04:39:34] <zeeshan_> of the drive?
[04:39:35] <zeeshan_> no
[04:39:44] <zeeshan_> max for drive is 12.5A cont / 25A peak
[04:40:28] <pcw_home> I would set it to 20A peak if you can
[04:40:34] <zeeshan_> cant :/
[04:40:43] <zeeshan_> its preset
[04:41:22] <pcw_home> 25 is probably OK but I would not set it unless you can find more detailed motor specs
[04:41:43] <zeeshan_> hey should i run this at full ipm
[04:41:46] <zeeshan_> 260ipm
[04:42:05] <pcw_home> you can try...
[04:42:24] <zeeshan_> oh yeababy
[04:42:31] <zeeshan_> this thing is overshooting like a madman
[04:42:43] <zeeshan_> i dont even have to see the scope
[04:43:58] <zeeshan_> http://i60.tinypic.com/2a5e6b.png
[04:44:10] <zeeshan_> i dont even know where to begin
[04:44:10] <zeeshan_> haha
[04:44:39] <skunkworks> not enough accelleration...
[04:45:33] <pcw_home> I think its a velocity bound somewhere
[04:45:34] <zeeshan_> okay
[04:45:37] <zeeshan_> it doesnt do that at 169ipm
[04:45:55] <zeeshan_> not at 200 either
[04:46:46] <zeeshan_> anything past 220 ipm
[04:46:47] <zeeshan_> it does that
[04:46:49] <skunkworks> heh - I should actally look at the trace lables...
[04:46:56] <skunkworks> actually
[04:47:06] <pcw_home> maybe ref gain is too low, maybe amp voltage is too low
[04:47:08] <pcw_home> maybe hal file error
[04:47:25] <zeeshan_> ref gain i set with volt meter
[04:47:40] <zeeshan_> it gives 30V at 5v
[04:47:58] <zeeshan_> amp voltage too low?
[04:48:07] <zeeshan_> (limitation of drive?)
[04:49:00] <pcw_home> plot analog out
[04:49:29] <pcw_home> could also be a hal file error
[04:49:52] <zeeshan_> hal file error in what sense
[04:50:04] <zeeshan_> analog out looks same as joint-vel-cmd
[04:50:19] <zeeshan_> lemme try at higher speed
[04:50:39] <pcw_home> does it go up to 10V (max)
[04:50:53] <zeeshan_> yes
[04:50:54] <zeeshan_> 10V max
[04:51:29] <zeeshan_> take ss.
[04:51:31] <zeeshan_> taking
[04:52:35] <zeeshan_> http://i61.tinypic.com/qp4bde.png
[04:52:44] <pcw_home> I think I mistakenly didnt leave any headroom when i told you how to set the ref gain
[04:53:43] <zeeshan_> sorry cursor over the flat green part
[04:53:45] <zeeshan_> but it says 10
[04:53:51] <pcw_home> so it my fault
[04:54:14] <zeeshan_> what should it have been
[04:54:19] <zeeshan_> <- doesnt know any better
[04:55:07] <pcw_home> probably need to increase the ref gain say maybe 40V at 5V in
[04:55:44] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, then they will sature at 10V
[04:55:45] <zeeshan_> saturate
[04:56:00] <zeeshan_> i was playing around with it.. at 10V
[04:56:08] <zeeshan_> it was outputting 60.22V
[04:56:23] <zeeshan_> which based on tach spec is 3000 rpm
[04:57:35] <zeeshan_> i think im understanding you wrong :P
[04:58:50] <zeeshan_> and btw
[04:58:54] <zeeshan_> i cant set it to 40V
[04:58:57] <zeeshan_> i remember at 30V..
[04:59:04] <zeeshan_> it wouldnt let me go past 30.5V
[04:59:08] <skunkworks> what is the supply voltage?
[04:59:12] <zeeshan_> 125VAC
[04:59:17] <zeeshan_> apparently drive outputs 190Vdc
[04:59:52] <zeeshan_> be25a20ac
[05:00:26] <zeeshan_> dc supply voltage range 40-190V
[05:00:33] <zeeshan_> ac supply voltage range 30-125
[05:00:34] <skunkworks> sure - that doesn't make sense then that you cannot increase the gain.. are you saying that at 10v the tach ouput is 60v?
[05:00:46] <zeeshan_> skunkworks, yes
[05:00:51] <zeeshan_> and also the ref gain
[05:00:56] <zeeshan_> wont let me set it more than 60V
[05:01:06] <skunkworks> ah - isn't the max input for the tach 60v?
[05:01:07] <zeeshan_> unless i add a resistor in the drive
[05:01:25] <skunkworks> I just did a voltave divider....
[05:01:26] <zeeshan_> yes 20mv * min
[05:01:35] <zeeshan_> 3000 rpm is max speed of motor
[05:01:43] <zeeshan_> works out to 60V in one direction
[05:01:44] <skunkworks> voltage.. - 2 resistors....
[05:02:01] <zeeshan_> just for your info guys
[05:02:04] <zeeshan_> i was happy at 2in/s^2
[05:02:07] <zeeshan_> :)
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[05:02:11] <zeeshan_> if i decrease the accel
[05:02:16] <skunkworks> to attenuate the tach voltage to what I needed...
[05:02:18] <zeeshan_> will it let me hit the ipm?
[05:02:30] <zeeshan_> skunkworks, yea thats what the manual says pretty much add a resistor in parallel
[05:02:45] <zeeshan_> but there is no way im doing through hole tuning
[05:02:48] <zeeshan_> ill take a performance cut :)
[05:02:58] <zeeshan_> i mean it does 200 ipm fine..
[05:03:03] <zeeshan_> thats plenty fast for me
[05:03:23] <skunkworks> that is what the k&t does... (well 190ipm)
[05:03:33] <zeeshan_> yea man its good enough
[05:03:47] <zeeshan_> im gonna decrease accel
[05:03:50] <zeeshan_> and see what happens
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[05:04:48] <pcw_home> you will lose a little speed with higher accel (you lose motor voltage to I^R losses)
[05:05:11] <zeeshan_> a little = 10 ipm? :)
[05:05:16] <zeeshan_> trying to get a ball park idea
[05:05:34] <pcw_home> not sure depends on the armature resistance
[05:06:04] <zeeshan_> gonna try 8 in/s^2 and see if it does the same thing
[05:06:06] <zeeshan_> at 220
[05:06:42] <pcw_home> at 125 VAC you probably have close to 170VDC
[05:07:20] <pcw_home> anyway pretty close
[05:07:44] <zeeshan_> nope
[05:07:48] <zeeshan_> accel didnt help much
[05:08:38] <zeeshan_> its really happy at 214 ipm
[05:09:48] <pcw_home> If you could increase the ref gain you may get a little more but its could be motor BEMF /drive volts limited also
[05:09:58] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, i guess i dont need FF2!
[05:10:10] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, its okay man
[05:10:12] <zeeshan_> im happy here
[05:10:12] <zeeshan_> haha
[05:10:20] <zeeshan_> you gotta remember
[05:10:24] <zeeshan_> im coming from the stepper driven lathe.
[05:10:27] <zeeshan_> that peaks at 120 ipm :)
[05:10:28] <pcw_home> did you chech the plot at the higher accel
[05:10:29] <furrywolf> "it's really happy at" = will stop working when temperature, weight of part, lube etc changes.
[05:10:45] <zeeshan_> well at 8 in/s^2
[05:10:51] <zeeshan_> furrywolf, im not gonna keep at at 214.
[05:10:57] <zeeshan_> im gonna bring it down to 190 - 180
[05:11:14] <zeeshan_> can i pump up accel at lower speed
[05:11:19] <zeeshan_> or will i get that same issue
[05:11:57] <pcw_home> you can pump up accel until the drives current limit
[05:12:26] <skunkworks> pcw_home: I think his limit is that he reaches the tach voltage limit for the drive... (60v)
[05:13:32] <pcw_home> but you need margin in acceleration (because you have cutting forces in addition to accelerating the axis mass)
[05:14:29] <pcw_home> Yeah look like you would need more ref gain/lower tach gain or more bus voltage not sure what
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[05:15:02] <pcw_home> but pretty close for Ebay drives
[05:15:37] <zeeshan_> $180 for 5 drives
[05:15:37] <zeeshan_> !
[05:15:53] <zeeshan_> im thinking i should grab a bigger one
[05:15:53] <pcw_home> nice to have the scales (not too much uncertainty where things are)
[05:15:55] <zeeshan_> for Z.
[05:17:04] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, why are those resistors from automation direct so expensive?
[05:17:13] <LeelooMinai> Liek $50 for 200 ohm 80 watt one...
[05:17:46] <LeelooMinai> Is there something special about them, or can I use cheap one?
[05:18:05] <pcw_home> 'nite, eyes hooding over zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[05:18:19] <furrywolf> cyas
[05:18:20] <zeeshan_> gnite!
[05:18:40] <furrywolf> new industrial supplies are always overpriced
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[05:18:51] <LeelooMinai> I mean those breaking resistors for VFDs
[05:19:05] <zeeshan_> thanks pcw and skunkworks
[05:19:13] <LeelooMinai> ebay one with same parameters is sub $5:)
[05:20:15] <LeelooMinai> Not sure if they can be any resistors. Can they be wirewound?
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[05:22:16] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, looks like those $50 are wirewound inside
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[05:29:57] <furrywolf> I need to decide if I want to bother with a bleeder for my stepper drive supply.
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[05:47:05] <Jymmm> furrywolf: on a relay?
[05:49:22] <norias> furrywolf: the voltage swing on our batteries came up in convo today
[05:49:43] <norias> it's a big debate between product management (a sales function) and product engineering
[05:50:11] <norias> apparently, sales wants to limit to 60V at the high end
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[05:50:25] <norias> to keep under some EU directive for safety
[05:50:34] <furrywolf> jymm: on the 37000uf filter capacitor
[05:50:37] <norias> that would keep the batteries listed as "low voltage"
[05:50:52] <furrywolf> norias: what's the kwh capacity at 60v vs some higher voltage?
[05:51:10] <norias> don't know off the top of my head
[05:51:26] <norias> just though of you when i saw that email thread
[05:51:37] <furrywolf> if it's not significant, sure, keep the voltage low. 60V is also the limit of many off-the-shelf chargers and charge controllers anyway.
[05:51:50] <norias> right
[05:52:13] <norias> product management seems to think off the shelf inverters, etc want to go to 40V
[05:52:21] <norias> there's some debate as to whether this is true
[05:52:25] <norias> i don't know either way
[05:52:46] <norias> so, that's where the 40-60V range with a 48V nominal comes from
[05:53:11] <furrywolf> if you get substantially higher capacity, then mention it (people like graphs. watt-hours vs charge termination voltage is one of them.), and mention in the user's manual that using voltages over 60V requires high-voltage wiring standards, touch protection, etc. your terminals are already touch-protected, so there's a start.
[05:53:27] <furrywolf> most inverters signal low battery around 44v and shut off around 40v.
[05:53:56] <norias> everything should be touch safe
[05:54:17] <norias> there's definitely usable energy in these batteries below 40V
[05:54:44] <furrywolf> this is due to lead-acid's discharge curve... pretty flat until below 2v/cell, then drops like a rock.
[05:55:23] <furrywolf> the low-voltage shutdown is often due to inverter electrical limits, either inability to maintain output voltage below a certain input voltage, or risk of overcurrent damage to input semis trying to pull more current to make up for reduced voltage.
[05:56:10] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, so they sell 2 pole 300V@50A fuses for those VFDs there. Can I replace them with, say, 40A 120/240V circuit breaker?
[05:56:13] <furrywolf> for example, while my Outback inverter can be set to not shut down until a lower input voltage, the output waveform supposedly starts having the tops chopped off below 20V. (40V on a 48V system)
[05:57:23] <furrywolf> why not a 50A breaker?
[05:57:57] <LeelooMinai> Well, saw 40A in homedepot. Not sure if it must be 50A. The VFD is only 1HP one
[05:58:11] <LeelooMinai> And it will sit at 110V socket
[05:58:32] <LeelooMinai> Those are imput fuses to the VFD
[05:59:11] <furrywolf> as in, you're putting a regular mains cord on it?
[05:59:26] <LeelooMinai> Yes, just normal 1 phase 100V
[05:59:30] <LeelooMinai> 110*
[05:59:52] <furrywolf> then you likely don't even need input fusing, since you only have 20A available anyway...
[06:00:14] <zeeshan_> 15
[06:01:03] <LeelooMinai> They wrote this: "Input fuses protect the AC drive from excessive input current due to line surges, short circuits, and ground faults. They are recommended for all installations and may be required for UL-listed installations."
[06:01:06] <furrywolf> zeeshan: in US wiring, it's normal to put 15A outlets on a 20A branch circuit.
[06:01:09] <zeeshan_> when the TABLE moves left that is the positive X direction
[06:01:15] <zeeshan_> furrywolf,
[06:01:19] <zeeshan_> what does that mean to u
[06:01:32] <zeeshan_> er
[06:01:36] <furrywolf> zeeshan: ... exactly what it says?
[06:01:40] <zeeshan_> when the TABLE moves out that is the positive Y direction
[06:01:52] <zeeshan_> if im facing the table
[06:01:59] <zeeshan_> would out be towards me? :)
[06:02:04] <furrywolf> it means the right side of the part is positive, and the left side of the part is negative. to move to the right of the part, you move the table left.
[06:02:17] * zeeshan_ likes coordinate system diagrams
[06:02:18] <zeeshan_> not words!
[06:02:57] <furrywolf> it means the top of the part is positive, and the bottom of the part is negative. to move to the top of the part, you move the table out.
[06:03:49] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan_: It's specified in respect to what the cutting bit sees I velieve
[06:03:58] <furrywolf> Part:
[06:03:58] <furrywolf> +Y
[06:03:58] <furrywolf> -X +X
[06:03:58] <furrywolf> -Y
[06:04:02] <furrywolf> how's that? :P
[06:04:05] <zeeshan_> that looks awesome
[06:04:08] <zeeshan_> thats what i see in the diagram
[06:04:17] <zeeshan_> so this table is coming towards me right now
[06:04:27] <zeeshan_> so that means cutter is going towards negative y.
[06:04:29] <LeelooMinai> FOr the table you have to reverse coordinates
[06:04:45] <zeeshan_> that means table has to move away from .
[06:04:46] <furrywolf> if there's a table coming towards you, it means the fight is getting out of hand, and it's time to leave the saloon before someone throws you through a window.
[06:04:47] <zeeshan_> me
[06:05:14] <furrywolf> no. the diagram I just gave is for the PART.
[06:05:36] <zeeshan_> looking from a birds eyeview.
[06:05:42] <furrywolf> if the table is moving towards you, it means the cutter is moving towards POSITIVE y.
[06:05:59] <furrywolf> imagine the diagram I just typed printed and pasted onto the table
[06:06:26] <zeeshan_> table needs to go to +y for cutter to go to -y
[06:06:27] <zeeshan_> i get that
[06:06:32] <zeeshan_> its just confusing
[06:06:40] <zeeshan_> :(
[06:06:47] <LeelooMinai> If the table moves towards yo, the bit moves to +y
[06:06:58] <zeeshan_> yes
[06:07:08] <zeeshan_> okay so when i press+ jog
[06:07:11] <furrywolf> no, the table needs to go to -y for the cutter to go to -y. that's how you define it.
[06:07:13] <zeeshan_> table is coming towards me
[06:07:22] <zeeshan_> so that means its inverted.
[06:07:28] <LeelooMinai> Rogh, so as I wrote - if you have table on y, reverse + and -
[06:07:56] <furrywolf> Table moving towards you is +y. Table moving away from you is -y.
[06:08:06] <norias> uh
[06:08:15] <norias> don't think in terms of the table
[06:08:23] <norias> no matter the mechanics of the machine
[06:08:34] <furrywolf> again, think of the diagram I made pasted onto the top of the table.
[06:08:39] <norias> machining is always thought of in terms of the tool moving relative to the part
[06:08:53] <zeeshan_> norias yea
[06:09:15] <zeeshan_> im looking at my spindle
[06:09:17] <furrywolf> in fact, open your favorite word processor, paste it in there at 96pt font, hit print, tape to table. :P
[06:09:24] <zeeshan_> if i wanna move cutter to +Y
[06:09:27] <zeeshan_> table needs to come out
[06:09:30] <zeeshan_> thats how im understanding it
[06:09:31] <furrywolf> yes
[06:10:05] <norias> on most vices
[06:10:11] <norias> all your Y moves are -
[06:10:18] <norias> and X moves are +
[06:10:38] <norias> (given that you aren't insane, and have a repeatable stop on the left side)
[06:10:58] <norias> oh! machining... I can get very opinionated about this part. :)
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[06:11:16] <furrywolf> bbl, it's way past wolfy bedtime.
[06:11:43] <norias> enjoy
[06:11:45] <norias> sleep well
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[06:13:46] <zeeshan_> gnite
[06:19:03] <tjtr33> LeelooMinai, maybe try oven electric range heating coils for brakes, cheap, lo resistance and very high wattage. parallel for lower resistance.
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[06:52:43] <bobo_> norias zeeshans mill has a in/out ram having vertical spindal that can be disconnected exposing a horz spindle. table moves up/down and left/right
[06:53:11] <norias> ok
[06:53:21] <zeeshan_> :-)
[06:53:27] <zeeshan_> norias are you a machinist
[06:53:31] <norias> yes
[06:53:33] <zeeshan_> ah :)
[06:53:36] <norias> why?
[06:53:45] <zeeshan_> just wondering
[06:53:48] <zeeshan_> you got rowdy earlier
[06:53:49] <zeeshan_> haha
[06:54:05] <bobo_> its a german machine
[06:54:07] <zeeshan_> funny thing is i taught a machines hop class last semester to undergrads
[06:54:10] <norias> lol
[06:54:19] <zeeshan_> but this direction stuff doesnt mean shit in manual machining
[06:54:22] <zeeshan_> you can set the dro to whatever
[06:54:27] <norias> it's still the same
[06:54:30] <zeeshan_> yea
[06:54:37] <zeeshan_> but like i never bothered understanding it
[06:54:45] <norias> and you teach
[06:54:46] <zeeshan_> just moved the handle and saw which way the dro moved
[06:54:47] <norias> amazing
[06:54:59] <zeeshan_> well there were more things to teach
[06:55:01] <norias> i teach, too, on the side
[06:55:08] <norias> mostly for fun
[06:55:11] <norias> the pay sucks
[06:55:26] <zeeshan_> this is TA work
[06:55:35] <norias> rule is
[06:55:44] <norias> centerline of the spindle is always Z
[06:55:55] <zeeshan_> yes
[06:55:58] <norias> and the tool always moves with respect to the part
[06:56:03] <norias> no matter the mechanics
[06:56:03] <zeeshan_> the axes i teach em
[06:56:25] <zeeshan_> plunging into the part = +
[06:56:31] <zeeshan_> for Z
[06:56:42] <zeeshan_> though i have seen in some machines
[06:56:51] <zeeshan_> is away
[06:57:04] <zeeshan_> bobo why are you up so late
[06:57:08] <norias> -z should always be in to the part
[06:57:35] <norias> the top face of the part is z0
[06:57:35] <bobo_> pump handle watch
[06:58:26] <zeeshan_> norias i agree
[06:58:33] <zeeshan_> brb gotta rewire somethin
[06:58:38] <norias> k
[06:59:29] <bobo_> moris he can have a brain crash going horz----vert
[07:01:05] <bobo_> *noris
[07:01:13] <norias> hmm
[07:01:24] <norias> oh, you mean because it effectively has two different spindles?
[07:01:33] <bobo_> yes
[07:01:49] <bobo_> on the ram
[07:02:35] <norias> yeah, i can see that being confusing
[07:02:39] <norias> i ran a machine like that
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[07:04:37] <bobo_> his mickron ? is like a deckel - maho --hermle type of mill
[07:04:45] <norias> yeah
[07:04:48] <norias> i ran a hermle
[07:04:50] <norias> i dug it
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[07:08:50] <bobo_> good to hear you are passing on knowledge ( teaching ) . the $ never were the reward for a good teacher
[07:09:04] <zeeshan_> bobo
[07:09:09] <zeeshan_> so i just discovered whats going on with Z servo.
[07:09:13] <zeeshan_> and why the brake isnt engaging.
[07:09:24] <zeeshan_> its a two way switch.
[07:09:34] <zeeshan_> if i give it voltage one way
[07:09:37] <bobo_> yes and it is
[07:09:40] <zeeshan_> it disables, but even when i remove power
[07:09:43] <zeeshan_> its disbled.
[07:09:51] <zeeshan_> when i give it voltage other way, it reengages.
[07:09:57] <zeeshan_> and even when i remove power
[07:10:00] <zeeshan_> it stays engaged.
[07:10:06] <zeeshan_> no idea whats going on internally
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[07:10:31] <zeeshan_> it almost seems like its moving some sort of pin.
[07:10:38] <zeeshan_> the pin stays in position
[07:11:09] <bobo_> pin or over center
[07:11:12] <zeeshan_> i think im gonna have to wire up another relay
[07:11:19] <zeeshan_> to control engage and disengage seperately
[07:11:30] <bobo_> oh bother
[07:11:38] <zeeshan_> im tired of wiring :(
[07:12:09] <zeeshan_> luckily i left space for an extra relay
[07:12:37] <zeeshan_> im gonna have to upstairs and think about it. maybe i can make it work with 1 relay.
[07:12:44] * zeeshan_ is getting out of garage
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[07:14:18] <bobo_> get that lub oil ozing thru those dry soon to squeek machine ways
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[07:21:15] <zeeshan> bobo they are oily :)
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[07:22:23] <bobo_> zeeshan: if the brake latches ---------to me it means the kill circuit is more involved , as in needing may by capacitor
[07:22:50] <zeeshan> why a cap
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[07:24:11] <bobo_> cap to provide pwr ,after killl switch
[07:24:58] <bobo_> power to the brake latch on
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[07:27:52] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/boJ0uwv.png
[07:27:56] <zeeshan> i think bottom right is the circuit
[07:28:02] <zeeshan> i always skilled it thinking it was something to do with y-axis.
[07:28:08] <zeeshan> but there is y-axis brake on the maho
[07:28:13] <zeeshan> there is no i mean.
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[07:32:11] <bobo_> maho y-axis motor has brake ( indramat branded motor )
[07:32:46] <zeeshan> okay then i cant find anything inthe manual about Z motor brake
[07:33:25] <bobo_> maho y-axis motor needs power to release
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[07:35:43] <bobo_> your schematic states y-axis , but shows a diode in series to brake , thus yo me means powered to release
[07:36:30] <zeeshan> the question is.......
[07:36:49] <zeeshan> do you need to keep power enabled for set of wire connections to the solenoid
[07:36:54] <zeeshan> because i noticed, if you remove power.
[07:36:57] <zeeshan> it stays locked
[07:37:05] <zeeshan> i really need to find out how this brake works
[07:37:36] <bobo_> I do not know
[07:37:41] <archivist> that is known as a latching device, some use power some are shuttle or magnetic
[07:38:09] <zeeshan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_brake
[07:38:12] <zeeshan> which one of those archivist
[07:38:16] * zeeshan hasnt read :)
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[07:39:12] <archivist> you need to explore your manual/brake to find out a wp only explains types
[07:39:29] <zeeshan> wp = workplan?
[07:39:39] <zeeshan> :)
[07:39:42] <archivist> wikipedia
[07:39:57] <zeeshan> i have 3 pieces of evidence
[07:40:03] <bobo_> archivist check his schematic ----has a diode in series
[07:40:03] <archivist> I have none
[07:40:49] <zeeshan> power applied one way, disengaged brake. power removed, brake stays disengaged. power applied another way, engages brake, power removed -- brake stays engaged.
[07:40:57] <zeeshan> ohmmeter reading = 27 ohm between terminals
[07:41:50] <archivist> diode in series say you can only apply power one direction
[07:42:40] <zeeshan> im gonna email asa hammond
[07:42:52] <zeeshan> hes done a 400 maho retrofit, i wonder if he dealt with this
[07:42:55] <zeeshan> he has same siemens motors
[07:43:05] <bobo_> zeeshan to me -what you see doesn't agree with schematic
[07:43:25] <archivist> it should be no problem to pulse on/off
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[07:43:35] <zeeshan> lol
[07:43:38] <zeeshan> i just get a german email
[07:43:44] <zeeshan> regarding my motor info request from siemens
[07:43:49] <zeeshan> lets see if it contains any info
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[07:44:01] <archivist> some brakes are powered off for safety
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[07:44:58] <archivist> either against springs or a permanent magnet
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[08:04:38] <bobo_> hope siemans has a clear --good # for max servo motor amps
[08:05:17] <Deejay> moin
[08:06:12] <bobo_> moin deejay
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[08:17:18] <Deejay> hi bobo_
[08:19:34] <bobo_> Deejay where are you located ?
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[09:28:16] <zeeshan> bobo_: i found manual for siemens motors
[09:28:17] <zeeshan> 1hu3.
[09:28:34] <zeeshan> and pcw.. that weird thing likely was happening
[09:28:52] <zeeshan> because i just found the specs for the machine. its rated for 236ipm. not 300 like i thought.
[09:29:01] <zeeshan> so thats why it was crapping out prolly past 220
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[09:29:53] <bobo_> so what is the deal on brake?
[09:30:00] <zeeshan> reading the manual right now
[09:30:08] <zeeshan> im gonna sleep in a few min
[09:30:18] <zeeshan> do you want the manual?
[09:30:20] <zeeshan> its completely in german
[09:30:55] <bobo_> I barely can use english
[09:32:03] <zeeshan> haha
[09:33:03] <bobo_> wish there was somewhare to park-save info on the web
[09:33:29] <bobo_> as in perment save to
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[09:38:30] <bobo_> zeeshan I remember Nick Mueller writing about mach.way stickion--and finding Shell-Oil helped
[09:39:14] <zeeshan> yea i need to do a lube events :P
[09:39:20] <zeeshan> a few lube events
[09:39:53] <bobo_> any way --tomorrow, be there!
[09:43:37] <bobo_> will check in much later
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[09:52:55] <zeeshan> https://pdf.yt/d/J7p7vtwzKOA8cGvy
[09:53:31] <zeeshan> i would really appreciate someone translating the haltebremse section including the wiring diagram
[09:53:41] <zeeshan> on page 11&12 of the pdf
[09:54:02] <zeeshan> cooresponding to pages 7/11 and 7/12 physically marked on the manual pages
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[16:03:34] <jdh> ok.
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[16:11:58] <pcw_home> If you have a cap across the brake the current will reverse when disconnected
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[16:41:14] <zeeshan> pcw_home does that work for all electromagnetic brakes?
[16:42:20] <zeeshan> pcw_home: my final x tuning values were: P=100, FF1 = 2.65, my final y tuning values were: P=400, FF1=2.55
[16:42:26] <zeeshan> they are the same exact motor.
[16:42:47] <zeeshan> the difference in P is due to more or less inertia that the motor is coupled with?
[16:42:53] <zeeshan> (need to understand theory!)
[16:43:28] <ssi> did you not need any ff2 tuning?
[16:43:45] <zeeshan> no ssi
[16:44:02] <ssi> no ferror spikes on accel/decel?
[16:44:04] <pcw_home> Yes, P depends on inertial load
[16:44:10] <zeeshan> ssi yep no spikes
[16:44:13] <ssi> cool
[16:44:17] <zeeshan> more inertia = more P?
[16:44:31] <zeeshan> i remember we had to do equation of motor
[16:44:38] <zeeshan> and equation of motion
[16:44:56] <pcw_home> the higher the inertial load, the lower the natural frequency
[16:45:00] <archivist> here have a pendulum
[16:45:02] <zeeshan> AH
[16:45:13] <zeeshan> youre analyzing equation of motion by itself
[16:45:24] <zeeshan> as single DOF system
[16:45:33] <zeeshan> sqrt (k/m)
[16:45:54] <pcw_home> so your phase margin increases, allowing more gain
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[16:46:11] <zeeshan> ssi: i am using a conservative accel
[16:46:16] <zeeshan> 7in/s^2
[16:46:25] <ssi> pcw_home: dangit you know too many disciplines too intimately
[16:46:30] <ssi> make the rest of us look bad
[16:46:32] <pcw_home> (you can also increase gain a bit by upping the servo thread rate)
[16:47:22] <zeeshan> gain is the porportional amount of analog output to motor velocity?
[16:47:29] <zeeshan> in this case
[16:47:46] <zeeshan> ssi: pcw is expert status
[16:47:57] <zeeshan> his last name is wallace
[16:47:58] <pcw_home> velocity change versus error
[16:48:21] <zeeshan> pcw_home: ah
[16:48:29] <pcw_home> (P controlling a velocity mode servo)
[16:48:48] <zeeshan> D would be position change vs error
[16:48:57] <zeeshan> and I would be accel change vs error
[16:49:05] <zeeshan> yes?
[16:49:23] <pcw_home> Not really
[16:49:47] <ssi> D is velocity command proportional to the rate of change of error
[16:50:01] <ssi> I is velocity command proportional to the integrated error
[16:50:07] <zeeshan> AHH.
[16:50:28] <pcw_home> Right and D is typically not used with velocity mode servos
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[16:50:47] <ssi> the idea is, if you're saying "hey, go 1m/s", and the error isn't decreasing, then the integral of the error will increase, which will increase the velocity command
[16:50:49] <zeeshan> why because there is not much error in rate of change?
[16:51:10] <PetefromTn_> I need to teleport PCW here to my shop to help me fine tune my servos hehe
[16:51:19] <ssi> if the error is decreasing very rapidly, then a negative D term will reduce the velocity command as it's approaching zero very quickly
[16:51:29] <t12> tune via webcam
[16:51:30] <pcw_home> Effectivel D is done in the drives in velocity mode
[16:51:48] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I've fine tuned servos in the past by sending pcw screenshots ;)
[16:51:54] <pcw_home> torque mode drives need D to be stable
[16:51:58] <zeeshan> he tuned my servos using screenshots
[16:52:04] <zeeshan> i followed same steps for Y axis
[16:52:12] <ssi> I need to get my damn servos done
[16:52:18] <zeeshan> pcw_home: you have a really good understanding of controllers.
[16:52:19] <ssi> I have a new fpga dev board coming
[16:52:23] <zeeshan> and types of drives
[16:52:35] <zeeshan> this is not stuff you can easily figur eout from a manual for a drive
[16:52:38] <zeeshan> unless you know wha tyoure looking for
[16:52:39] <PetefromTn_> I thought about doing a webcam to get help with my imperial conversion I need to do.. Kind of afraid to mess with what works right now.
[16:52:45] <ssi> PetefromTn_: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7Z2oHjIEAAyc1m.jpg:large
[16:53:03] <PetefromTn_> is that wood?
[16:53:06] <ssi> ya
[16:53:11] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[16:53:12] <ssi> spruce and mahogany plywood
[16:53:29] <ssi> it's light and omgstrong
[16:53:39] <PetefromTn_> you are a brave man altho I do understand planes were built with wood for decades..
[16:53:40] <ssi> working on the lower wing spars now
[16:53:49] <ssi> it's seriously strong as crap
[16:53:56] <ssi> these wings are good to 20G on this plane
[16:54:03] <PetefromTn_> my crap aint that strong..
[16:54:07] <PetefromTn_> :D
[16:54:14] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: how is your Z brake wired up
[16:54:19] <ssi> 1500lb gross, so they're good to 30klb
[16:54:22] <zeeshan> do you remember
[16:54:26] <ssi> and that top wing is held on with two 5/16" bolts
[16:54:36] <ssi> plus the flying wires
[16:54:39] <PetefromTn_> dunno I bought it all wired up did not have to mess with it...LOL but I can look at it.
[16:55:08] <PetefromTn_> it has its own din rail mounted relay and power supply.
[16:55:13] <zeeshan> hm
[16:55:16] <Rab> Wood is still used in helicopter blades, apparently because it doesn't fatigue like metal.
[16:55:16] <PetefromTn_> ssi nice
[16:55:26] <zeeshan> i didn't understand pcw_home's comment about adding a capacitor in parallel
[16:55:38] <PetefromTn_> ? I thought they were all carbon fiber and whatnot
[16:55:55] <ssi> carbon over wood
[16:55:59] <PetefromTn_> composites
[16:56:02] <zeeshan> they show a varistor in the diagram too
[16:56:03] <ssi> most composites have wood or foam cores
[16:56:17] <pcw_home> DC brakes can stick due to residual magnetism
[16:56:45] <ssi> pcw_home: the cap is a load for the brake's inductive spike or something?
[16:56:51] <ssi> would a flyback diode work better?
[16:57:06] <zeeshan> no ssi
[16:57:10] <zeeshan> my brake is acting funny
[16:57:18] <zeeshan> A-------\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\---------B
[16:57:20] <pcw_home> if you look at the schematics they have a capacitor across the inductor
[16:57:22] <zeeshan> suppose that is the brake
[16:57:34] <zeeshan> When you apply +24vdc to pin A and ground pin B, the brake disengages. When you remove power from pin A, the brake stays disengaged. When you apply +24vdc to pin B and ground pin A, the brake engages. When you remove power from pin B, the brake stays engaged.
[16:57:43] <zeeshan> pcw_home: yes
[16:57:57] <zeeshan> are they using the varistor
[16:58:02] <ssi> zeeshan: sounds like it's latching
[16:58:02] <zeeshan> to deaden the current spike
[16:58:41] <pcw_home> with a capacitor, when you disconnect the power you will get AC voltage (resonance) that will reverse the field
[16:58:45] <ssi> ahhh
[16:59:36] <pcw_home> with a diode, the current (and magnetic field) will always be in the same direction
[16:59:52] <zeeshan> so i need to remove the diode
[17:00:05] <zeeshan> add a varistor to deaden spike and add cap
[17:00:17] <pcw_home> and add capacitor
[17:00:26] <zeeshan> i cant read german but theyre saying something about 29VAC
[17:00:38] <zeeshan> they dont really specify a cap size
[17:00:44] <pcw_home> you may not need the varistor
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[17:01:01] <zeeshan> oh nm
[17:01:02] <zeeshan> they do say it.
[17:01:05] <zeeshan> 220uF , 60V.
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[17:01:52] <pcw_home> thats non polarized!
[17:04:22] <mozmck> pcw_home: did you see my note that the blue text in your store is only in grid view?
[17:04:35] <zeeshan> To prevent noise generation by pulse current by tightening or drop point , a capacitor of 220 / 60V is recommended when using a Graetz bridge for smoothing .
[17:04:53] <zeeshan> thats what it translates to..
[17:06:20] <zeeshan> Depending on the connected load of this capacitor is jedoh raise the voltage , more or less , the secondary voltage DAB in the transformer will not be passed as read- kaan
[17:06:20] <zeeshan> lol
[17:06:23] <zeeshan> that makes no sense :P
[17:07:20] <SpeedEvil> https://vine.co/u/1167773680030359552 - loop closure failure
[17:09:12] <pcw_home> mozmck: yes I'll look into that
[17:09:42] <mozmck> pcw_home: ok, everything else looks fine, and ordering works :)
[17:10:41] <CaptHindsight> Graetz bridge rectifier: a full-wave rectifier using 4 diodes.
[17:10:49] <zeeshan> so it looks like theyre saying theyre using the cap
[17:10:52] <zeeshan> to filter the power supply
[17:10:59] * zeeshan is confused
[17:11:03] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Graetz
[17:11:15] <zeeshan> ah
[17:11:35] <pcw_home> I say a non polarized cap across the coil
[17:11:37] <ssi> SpeedEvil: :)
[17:11:42] <pcw_home> saw
[17:11:45] <zeeshan> pcw_home: im sure i have one
[17:11:48] <zeeshan> that came from original control
[17:11:50] <zeeshan> gonna look
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[17:12:03] <zeeshan> i also think i saw a varistor.
[17:12:51] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15867896489/
[17:12:55] <zeeshan> damn it im not home right now
[17:13:01] <zeeshan> ofcourse i take a pic where i cant read it
[17:14:05] <CaptHindsight> looks like 3 large Graetz rectifiers
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[17:14:51] <zeeshan> btw id like to share this observation for what its worth
[17:15:02] <zeeshan> i really thought my cabinet with the drives and vfds would run hotter.
[17:15:16] <zeeshan> the oine with the computer motherboard and power supply runs WAY hotter
[17:15:20] <ssi> SpeedEvil: lol: Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk Next rocket landing on drone ship in 2 to 3 weeks w way more hydraulic fluid. At least it shd explode for a diff reason.
[17:15:32] <zeeshan> but granted, the vfds havent seen full load yet
[17:15:48] <zeeshan> ssi: hahah
[17:15:51] <zeeshan> that guy is the best
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[17:16:15] <ssi> he reminds me of me... with more money
[17:16:25] <ssi> lots more money :(
[17:16:51] <zeeshan> you can tell he's a real person
[17:16:56] <zeeshan> with how awkward he is when he speaks
[17:17:04] <zeeshan> hes not one of those salesman types
[17:17:45] <mozmck> so salesmen aren't real people? ;)
[17:17:51] <ssi> no, they're not :D
[17:18:05] <zeeshan> mozmck: call me narrowminded
[17:18:16] <archivist> real salesmen have snake oil for blood
[17:18:17] <zeeshan> but i think people that build/fix stuff , are real people
[17:18:31] <ssi> I think you have to be a sociopath to be an effective salesman
[17:18:36] <zeeshan> even marketing people are real people
[17:18:43] <PetefromTn_> Ooh oOh I'm real!
[17:18:43] <zeeshan> they try to make people recognize the value of a product
[17:18:52] <zeeshan> salesman are the scum
[17:19:00] * zeeshan hides
[17:19:13] <ssi> :)
[17:19:21] <zeeshan> i dont mean engineering salesmen either..
[17:19:29] <zeeshan> they put together packages for companies
[17:19:38] <zeeshan> im talking abotu those bastards that try to sell you a new waterheater
[17:19:41] <zeeshan> @ your door
[17:19:51] <mozmck> yes, there are different kinds of salesmen.
[17:20:00] <PetefromTn_> salesholes..
[17:20:06] <zeeshan> haha
[17:20:16] <CaptHindsight> I didn't know that I needed a new heater heater until he showed up at my door
[17:20:24] <zeeshan> exactly!
[17:20:35] <mozmck> I like the kind that will tell you their product is not the best fit for your needs. Most commercial/industrial salesmen I've seen are more like that.
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[17:20:53] <archivist> I get replacement window salesdroids. I like winding them up
[17:20:58] <zeeshan> mozmck: i agree they have the scum gene in them too
[17:21:07] <ssi> ugh window salesmen are terrible
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[17:21:28] <ssi> I needed windows really bad and I eventually ended up buying them from lowes and having them install
[17:21:32] <ssi> and it was pretty reasonable
[17:21:40] <ssi> the window salesmen wanted 5x as much money
[17:21:42] <ssi> or more
[17:21:48] <CaptHindsight> I like when the send the female salesman over with the shorter skirt and larger upper frontal superstructure to persuade me to buy from them
[17:22:00] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: you can get that cheaper at a strip club
[17:22:03] <zeeshan> :-)
[17:22:04] <ssi> lol superstructure
[17:22:12] <ssi> zeeshan: OH
[17:22:20] <ssi> we call strip clubs "the canadian ballet"
[17:22:23] <ssi> what do you call them there?
[17:22:27] <ssi> "canadian canadian ballet"?
[17:22:27] <mozmck> I generally totally ignore un-solicited sales calls, and when I need something, do my own research.
[17:22:28] <ssi> :D
[17:22:32] <zeeshan> the rippers
[17:22:36] <zeeshan> why canadian ballet
[17:22:40] <ssi> I dunno, it's funny
[17:22:45] <zeeshan> :)
[17:22:58] <ssi> we've actually been talking about going to toronto to go to the canadian canadian ballet
[17:23:06] <ssi> and we read a bunch of reviews of the clubs there
[17:23:08] <CaptHindsight> Ontario has a reputation in the US for having lots of strip clubs
[17:23:14] <ssi> and what we learned was that canadians HATE cover charges
[17:23:27] <archivist> uncover charges!
[17:23:29] <ssi> all the reviews were like "it was pretty good, but there was a two dollar cover!"
[17:23:29] <zeeshan> yea we have tons
[17:23:31] <CaptHindsight> well larger Canadian cities in general
[17:23:34] <ssi> TWO DOLLARS?!
[17:23:35] <ssi> hahah
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[17:24:04] <ssi> if you can pay the cover change with a single coin, it's not unreasonable :D
[17:24:33] <zeeshan> we also have a crap load of massage parlors
[17:24:37] <zeeshan> f that nonsense
[17:24:41] <zeeshan> you can see em everywhere
[17:24:52] <zeeshan> nails places turn into massage parlors at night
[17:24:55] <ssi> yeah they're all over the place down here too
[17:25:11] <ssi> never seen one that was colocated with a nails place
[17:25:40] <CaptHindsight> "Nails and Knobs"
[17:25:54] <ssi> lawl
[17:27:40] <JT-Shop> yea, figured out how to make the borders on Mate wider
[17:28:12] <Loetmichel> did i mentoin earlier that we got the enclosures back from the painter for the next 20 Thin clients like this one? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14412 ... and 7 of them are Ral 3020... That BITES... customers demand ... :-/
[17:28:57] <Loetmichel> and now we have to build 7 in this Enclosure...-> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15541... i pity the soldiers that have to sit 8 hours a day straight in front of these ;-)
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[17:30:59] <mozmck> JT-Shop: you like Mate better than XFCE?
[17:31:51] <JT-Shop> is XFCE what comes stock on the Debian Wheezy?
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[17:32:13] <mozmck> yes
[17:32:37] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: do you machine those all from 6061?
[17:32:39] <JT-Shop> then yes I like Mate a whole lot better, more like Ubuntu 10.04
[17:32:58] <mozmck> I run XFCE on my main system running LinuxMint 17.1
[17:33:14] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: these are made of 1mm sheet steel, zinced and then powder coated
[17:34:00] <mozmck> JT-Shop: huh, I don't notice too much difference, but then I use Nemo (Nautilus fork) for the file manager.
[17:34:11] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: do you punch or drill all the ventilation holes?
[17:34:20] <mozmck> Mine is a little newer too which might help.
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[17:35:05] <CaptHindsight> 34F a heatwave
[17:35:12] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: CNC punch, but he had these made
[17:35:17] <Loetmichel> i only do prototypes
[17:37:13] <R2E4> Anyone know anything about this machine? Is it worth 10G's with a broke control? http://www.kijiji.ca/v-autres-outils/ville-de-montreal/tour-okuma-es-l8-cnc-lathe-2000/1033749835?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[17:41:19] <zeeshan> no
[17:41:29] <zeeshan> im kidding
[17:41:32] <zeeshan> that looks in mint conditioj
[17:41:39] <JT-Shop> nice slant bed lathe
[17:41:52] <zeeshan> fairly new too
[17:41:59] <zeeshan> i bet there is something stupid thats wrong with it
[17:42:01] <zeeshan> that you can figure out
[17:42:01] <R2E4> 15 years old
[17:42:25] <zeeshan> is the max dist between centers good enough for you?
[17:42:39] <R2E4> 4,000.00 worth of control boards need replacing.
[17:42:50] <zeeshan> oh f that
[17:42:51] <jdh> 10hp spindle!
[17:43:13] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:43:20] <SpeedEvil> I't pay $2K for it.
[17:43:21] <R2E4> 1000.00 worth of power supplies and mesa cards and I'm in....
[17:43:24] <SpeedEvil> But then that's my CC limit
[17:43:45] <zeeshan> i keep my cc limit to 1000
[17:43:49] <JT-Shop> only 3k rpm
[17:43:57] <zeeshan> to buy a 2000$
[17:44:02] <zeeshan> i'd have to overpay it first
[17:44:07] <zeeshan> forces you to be debt free :)
[17:44:35] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: are the controls all in French?
[17:44:50] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i think you mean R2E4
[17:44:51] <zeeshan> :)
[17:45:18] <CaptHindsight> I thought since you're a Canadian
[17:45:27] <zeeshan> at work
[17:45:31] <zeeshan> you can set them to whatever language you want
[17:46:38] <R2E4> english controls
[17:47:20] <R2E4> zeeshan: max distance I have now is 0, so anything bigger than that is a plus.
[17:47:59] <R2E4> It's a clean machine though.
[17:48:22] <R2E4> other lathes in that era are 25K +
[17:48:33] <zeeshan> yea
[17:48:43] <SpeedEvil> As long as you can afford it without hardship...
[17:48:48] <SpeedEvil> R2E4: do you have an actual job for it?
[17:48:55] <zeeshan> R2E4 has a huge shop
[17:48:56] <zeeshan> :P
[17:49:17] <R2E4> I am turning down jobs for CNC lathe work.
[17:49:32] <R2E4> I have conventional lathe though.
[17:49:34] <SpeedEvil> Well - it's the right place to be in :)
[17:50:21] <R2E4> I bought my VMC for 6000.00 and it was stressful getting up and running. Imagine a Lathe at 10,000.00
[17:50:38] <SpeedEvil> Has it made its price back?
[17:50:38] <zeeshan> R2E4: did you bild your own controller!
[17:51:03] <R2E4> SpeedEvil: really close.
[17:51:44] <R2E4> zeeshan: yes, button panel, enclosure mesa cards plc relay banks....
[17:52:00] <zeeshan> nice
[17:53:26] <R2E4> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UciqAyRwaOQ, this was a while ago
[17:54:08] <zeeshan> haha
[17:54:10] <zeeshan> is that a sr20 in there
[17:54:13] <zeeshan> that car
[17:54:42] <zeeshan> yea that has to be a sr20
[17:54:48] <zeeshan> i can tell by the exhaust flanges
[17:54:52] <zeeshan> exhaust side
[17:55:21] <R2E4> yes, thats an sr20 going in that Lotus7 I am building.
[17:55:30] <zeeshan> very coolk
[17:55:49] <R2E4> the CNC bridgeport on the wood side is now where the lotus7 is on the metal side.
[17:57:55] <R2E4> I have yet to work on the tool changer. Changing tools with a button, and manual change.
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[18:07:47] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i read through quickly about a parallel LC circuit. if i add a capacitor in parallel with the inductor
[18:07:56] <zeeshan> with a DC source
[18:08:20] <zeeshan> eri dont know whats going on
[18:08:23] <zeeshan> <- hates microelectronics :(
[18:08:27] <zeeshan> er electronics.
[18:08:44] <pcw_home> This is macroelectronics!
[18:08:51] <zeeshan> its beyond me man
[18:09:04] <zeeshan> these guys are talking about AC voltage source, you get a resonant circuit
[18:09:08] <zeeshan> not sure what happens in a DC circuit
[18:09:26] <zeeshan> when you close the switch the first time, cap cahrges, inductor mag field generated
[18:09:48] <pcw_home> what happens is you get ringing when you remove the DC
[18:09:52] <zeeshan> yes
[18:10:02] <zeeshan> it'll resonate till it dissaptes due to resistance
[18:10:07] <zeeshan> but how is that helping the brake disengage
[18:10:12] <zeeshan> it's trying to collapse the magnetic field?
[18:11:18] <zeeshan> i could not find a 220uF cap in the old control box hardware. only found a 3300uF 40V
[18:11:21] <zeeshan> it is also a polarized cap
[18:11:27] <zeeshan> you said i want non-polarized?
[18:11:58] <pcw_home> Thats a filter cap (the cap across the brake would have to be non-polarized)
[18:12:11] <zeeshan> i wondere where it is
[18:12:20] <zeeshan> because i want to see if they had a varistor with it
[18:12:28] <pcw_home> Yeah its in the schematic
[18:12:29] <zeeshan> so i can grab the specs and go buy some
[18:13:18] <zeeshan> i remember seeing a varistor
[18:13:22] <zeeshan> but not this cap
[18:14:07] <pcw_home> I suspect that is was used to reverse the field which will help release the brake if its stuck with residual magnetism
[18:14:31] <zeeshan> can i achieve the same thing with two relays
[18:14:39] <zeeshan> reversing the voltage for a brief second
[18:15:01] <zeeshan> that might actually be bad for the power supply
[18:15:04] <zeeshan> cause its a brief short circuit
[18:15:17] <zeeshan> i dont know though - not an expert
[18:15:25] <pcw_home> yeah but thats more complicated than a capacitor
[18:15:34] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i have the relays
[18:15:42] <zeeshan> i would just need to wire the signal
[18:15:49] <pcw_home> and you still need a varistor in that case
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[18:15:54] <zeeshan> ah
[18:16:08] <zeeshan> i can see why you're saying i dont need a vairstor if i just get a cap
[18:16:15] <zeeshan> its cause it will slow the charge time
[18:16:40] <zeeshan> im thinking of RLC.
[18:16:56] <pcw_home> it will lower the peak voltage also (think of the capacitor on old auto points)
[18:17:31] <zeeshan> so i need to go grab a 220uF 60V cap nonpolarized
[18:17:34] <zeeshan> thats it
[18:17:44] <zeeshan> and remove the diode i have in parallel with my solenoid
[18:17:52] <zeeshan> and instead put this cap in parallel
[18:18:09] <pcw_home> maybe an old motor start capacitor
[18:18:23] <zeeshan> that i will have. lemme take a look
[18:20:16] <Rab> zeeshan, http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/UVP1J221MHD1TN/493-12712-1-ND/4328329
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[18:23:27] <zeeshan> unfortunately no motor caps
[18:23:31] <zeeshan> damn 3 phase motors everywhere
[18:23:59] <zeeshan> Rab: digikey will take time :(
[18:24:17] <zeeshan> pcw_home: how quick will the mag field collapse
[18:24:34] <zeeshan> i know thats a broad question
[18:24:42] <zeeshan> but assuming 0.5 ohm resistance
[18:24:58] <zeeshan> second? microsec?
[18:25:48] <zeeshan> also 2 relays is a bad idea because if i lose power
[18:25:55] <zeeshan> there is a chance the brake wont engage.
[18:26:17] <zeeshan> rab when are you getting a lathe? :)
[18:27:06] <Rab> zeeshan, as soon as I have the floor space. So...10+ years?
[18:27:12] <zeeshan> hehe
[18:27:23] <Rab> Thinking about trying to fit a shipping container into the back yard.
[18:27:25] <zeeshan> you have lots of space
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[18:28:15] <Rab> Also, there's no industry here. Any old crappy lathe goes for $2,000+.
[18:28:40] <Rab> So it would probably take a road trip with a trailer to find anything good.
[18:28:45] <pcw_home> t=L/R
[18:28:46] <zeeshan> where are you again
[18:28:50] <Rab> Austin, TX
[18:29:05] <Rab> AmeriKKKa
[18:29:21] <zeeshan> 0.00044 s
[18:29:30] <zeeshan> 220 e-6 / 0.5
[18:29:32] <zeeshan> oh thats quick
[18:29:49] <zeeshan> Rab: yorue in the land of the free
[18:29:51] <zeeshan> road trip it!
[18:30:18] <Rab> Gas is cheap, I guess.
[18:30:25] <zeeshan> yes!
[18:31:59] <zeeshan> jeez there are so many kinds of caps
[18:32:26] <pcw_home> RC time constant is well... RC
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[18:33:45] <pcw_home> so if you have say 1 henry and 24 Ohms(guessing barke specs) the decay time is about 40 ms into the diode
[18:33:57] <zeeshan> 27 ohm
[18:33:57] <zeeshan> :D
[18:34:54] <zeeshan> http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/LNT2W221MSEC/493-9061-ND/2549190
[18:34:57] <zeeshan> found the perfect capaictor
[18:35:03] <zeeshan> but too bad its not local
[18:35:41] <Rab> Who is local? Do you have Grainger?
[18:35:47] <zeeshan> yes i have grainger
[18:35:48] <zeeshan> they will have?
[18:35:52] <Rab> yah
[18:36:23] <zeeshan> how important is the 220uF?
[18:36:30] <Rab> Maybe not in stock at the store, but they do ship-to-store.
[18:36:35] <Rab> Beats me man.
[18:36:40] <zeeshan> i want it now!
[18:36:50] <zeeshan> id like to make chips this weekend
[18:36:51] <zeeshan> :D
[18:36:56] <zeeshan> only thing left is Z.
[18:37:01] <zeeshan> and reversing 3 limit switches to nc
[18:37:10] <zeeshan> for some reason the +axis switches are nc.
[18:37:13] <zeeshan> -axis switches are no
[18:37:32] <zeeshan> not sure why they wired them like that
[18:38:14] <pcw_home> You also might want to take a look at the brake to make sure it s not just sticking
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[18:38:24] <zeeshan> pcw_home: when i reverse polarity
[18:38:30] <zeeshan> it disengages
[18:38:34] <zeeshan> i mean engages
[18:38:49] <zeeshan> how can i check if its sticking any other way without disassembling it
[18:40:30] <pcw_home> Thats really odd (and dangerous), most just engage when power is removed
[18:40:41] <zeeshan> it doesnt
[18:40:55] <zeeshan> did you get a chance to read the behaviour i described earlier?
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[18:41:06] <pcw_home> I think I would investigate further
[18:41:25] <zeeshan> When you apply +24vdc to pin A and ground pin B, the brake disengages. When you remove power from pin A, the brake stays disengaged. When you apply +24vdc to pin B and ground pin A, the brake engages. When you remove power from pin B, the brake stays engaged.
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[18:41:40] <zeeshan> A-------\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\---------B
[18:41:48] <zeeshan> ascii capacitor! :D
[18:42:32] <zeeshan> i was hoping your solution would help fix it
[18:42:49] <zeeshan> by putting the brake the capacitor in parallel it will help discharge?
[18:42:58] <pcw_home> The manual mentioned a permanent magnet brake maybe thats what you have
[18:43:07] <zeeshan> yes its a perm mag brake
[18:43:12] <zeeshan> i translated that
[18:43:46] <pcw_home> in which case you probably need the reversing relay
[18:44:10] <zeeshan> can i use 2 diodes in parallel
[18:44:20] <zeeshan> flipped in direction
[18:44:24] <pcw_home> nope thats a short
[18:44:50] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/boJ0uwv.png
[18:44:58] <zeeshan> im really thinking that diagram on the bottom right
[18:45:11] <zeeshan> was how they factory did it
[18:45:40] <zeeshan> it looks like z ener diode
[18:45:44] <zeeshan> in series with a regular diode
[18:46:40] <_methods> ground shunt?
[18:47:01] <pcw_home> but that only allows one polarity (the series diode only allows current to flow in one direction)
[18:47:20] <zeeshan> btw this coil only draws 1A.
[18:47:36] <zeeshan> so i need a varistor
[18:48:50] <pcw_home> I think thats a non latching brake circuit not your permanant magnet latching brake
[18:49:09] <zeeshan> okay i guess the Y axis isnt a typo then
[18:50:53] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/cc5FnK7.png
[18:50:56] <zeeshan> this is what i drew up last night
[18:51:02] <zeeshan> i personally dont think its safe
[18:51:21] <zeeshan> because the relay thats responsible for engagement
[18:51:27] <zeeshan> oh nm
[18:51:45] <zeeshan> yea its not safe
[18:51:48] <zeeshan> if the 24vdc supply fails
[18:52:03] <zeeshan> even if mesa is off, and the default relay state is a "engage brake"
[18:52:08] <zeeshan> no power will flow to engage the brake
[18:52:59] <pcw_home> well thats the trouble with latching brakes...
[18:53:17] <zeeshan> what if i keep a cap in parallel with the brake
[18:53:19] <zeeshan> non polarized
[18:53:38] <zeeshan> will that not store enough energy to provide enough power to the brake in disengage state
[18:54:48] <pcw_home> Dont think so
[18:55:20] <zeeshan> i dunno why i have labeled output 1 and output 3
[18:55:25] <zeeshan> it should be output 1 NO
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[18:55:30] <zeeshan> and output 1 NC
[18:55:59] <zeeshan> and flip the connections on it
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[18:56:04] <zeeshan> so one command signal flips it
[18:56:45] <pcw_home> So as long as your 24V power supply has enough hold up time it should be safe dieing power failures
[18:57:03] <zeeshan> yea but if the mesa stays on longer
[18:57:07] <zeeshan> and watchdog failure doesnt happen before
[18:57:11] <pcw_home> during power failures
[18:57:12] <zeeshan> it might have already discharged
[18:57:53] <atom1> pcw_home, do you know how to access the sserial with mesaflash thru the 7i90?
[18:58:00] <atom1> i just updated to 3.2 to test it
[18:58:00] <pcw_home> so you need power failure sense
[18:58:12] <zeeshan> can i do that in mesa?
[18:58:26] <zeeshan> it monitors the 24vdc line
[18:58:31] <zeeshan> if it falls below say 20vdc
[18:58:42] <zeeshan> it immediately goes in failure mode
[18:58:45] <zeeshan> delatching the relays
[18:58:55] <zeeshan> that would be cool!
[18:59:07] <pcw_home> sure
[18:59:14] <zeeshan> nice!
[18:59:17] <zeeshan> that would make this very safe
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[19:00:23] <pcw_home> It may be the the PC power will fail first
[19:00:31] <pcw_home> that the
[19:00:44] <zeeshan> that would be even better
[19:00:56] <zeeshan> cause mesa's default state with no power
[19:00:59] <atom1> SSLBP port 0:
[19:00:59] <atom1> SSLBP Version: 1.43
[19:00:59] <atom1> SSLBP Channels: 2
[19:00:59] <atom1> SSLBP Baud Rate: 2500000
[19:01:01] <zeeshan> is putting outputs to 0?
[19:01:13] <atom1> cool
[19:01:16] <pcw_home> yes
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[19:02:21] <pcw_home> the 7I77 will turn off all outputs if host comms stop for more than 50 ms
[19:02:52] <zeeshan> pcw_home: you guys have built nice safety features.
[19:02:58] <zeeshan> i really liked the fact that it was going in limp mode
[19:03:05] <zeeshan> when my polarity of the hyd soleneoid was wrong
[19:03:24] <zeeshan> i guess it was detecting a short circuit or something somewhere
[19:03:30] <zeeshan> i still dont know why it was triggering :)
[19:03:38] <pcw_home> so basically you want to make sure that the 24V holdup time is long enough
[19:03:51] <zeeshan> yea
[19:06:09] <Rab> zeeshan, is there any virtue to derating servo amps? The servos I have are 80V, 7.6A...AMC BE15A8 is 20-80V, 7.5A. Is that a good fit, or is e.g. BE25A20 more appropriate?
[19:06:50] <zeeshan> from my limited experience with my servos
[19:07:08] <zeeshan> as long as your motor nameplate continuous current is met
[19:07:09] * JT-Shop finally got what he expected from the lathe roughing cycle
[19:07:20] <zeeshan> you're driving your motor good enough
[19:07:29] <zeeshan> but my servos can benefit from additional peak current
[19:07:47] <zeeshan> i think pcw said thats like 4-5x name plate curent
[19:08:08] <zeeshan> will you be getting all the possible performance from your servo? no.
[19:08:19] <zeeshan> will they work for most applications, yes
[19:08:21] <Rab> I guess I'm more worried about burning out the drive.
[19:08:30] <zeeshan> dont worry about that
[19:08:39] <zeeshan> double checkin the spec sheet but im pretty sure almost all bedrives
[19:08:46] <zeeshan> have overtemp protection etc
[19:09:03] <Rab> I would usually derate power supply electronics by 30-50% at least. But AMC seems like nice industrial stuff that's probably already derated.
[19:09:16] <zeeshan> i'd say so
[19:09:21] <zeeshan> check this out
[19:09:33] <zeeshan> i was driving my X axis at 202 ipm
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[19:09:48] <zeeshan> that is roughly 9.2 V out
[19:09:53] <zeeshan> out of 10.
[19:09:58] <pcw_home> to get full performance you need the peak current rating of the motors and your drives should be able to deliver that
[19:10:01] <zeeshan> and i was pushing agains tthe table
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[19:10:14] <zeeshan> to simulate load .
[19:10:21] <zeeshan> touched the drive after. it was luke warm
[19:10:25] <zeeshan> 30C by my hand test
[19:10:31] <pcw_home> dont get pinched!
[19:10:38] <zeeshan> haha pcw
[19:10:50] <Rab> What's the rating on your servos?
[19:10:56] <zeeshan> be25a20ac
[19:10:59] <zeeshan> set to 6.5A
[19:11:39] <zeeshan> i think you will be fine with the 8A drive
[19:11:50] <Rab> zeeshan, I mean your motors.
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[19:12:00] <zeeshan> 6.5A 170VDC
[19:12:23] <pcw_home> unlike step motors, servos only use power when its needed so
[19:12:24] <pcw_home> unless you push really hard for a long time they are not going to get hot
[19:12:34] <zeeshan> pcw_home: oh man i was giving it a good workout
[19:12:37] <zeeshan> and myself a good workout
[19:12:53] <Rab> So 1000W class?
[19:12:58] <zeeshan> jog back and forth and playin tug of warr
[19:13:09] <Rab> pcw_home, good point.
[19:13:14] <zeeshan> yea about there rab
[19:13:20] <pcw_home> (bad tuning = oscillation can overheat motors/drives)
[19:13:28] <zeeshan> pcw_home: hey man
[19:13:36] <zeeshan> you're the one who told me kp - 100 from oscillation
[19:13:38] <zeeshan> so its far away!
[19:14:22] <zeeshan> wait
[19:14:26] <zeeshan> from our earlier discussion
[19:14:33] <zeeshan> adding mass would mean you're shifting the lower frequency lower
[19:14:37] <zeeshan> which means you need to increase Kp
[19:14:51] <zeeshan> or do i have that backwards
[19:15:00] <pcw_home> it means you _can_ increase KP
[19:15:29] <zeeshan> so we've tuned it at a no-load state
[19:15:32] <zeeshan> which is the safest
[19:15:46] <zeeshan> by no load i mean non cutting / no extra weight
[19:15:53] <zeeshan> so it should not oscillatie
[19:16:13] <pcw_home> yes more mass will make it more stable
[19:16:37] <zeeshan> i guess this is where autotuning is benefficial
[19:16:40] <pcw_home> (unless you go into current limit, then funny things will happen)
[19:16:45] <atom1> pcw_home, do i need to update the hostmot2 driver for the 7I90?
[19:16:47] <zeeshan> they're basically trying to get the best performance possible for all scenarios
[19:17:18] <zeeshan> pcw_home: so when im cutting away for the first while or so
[19:17:25] <atom1> i commented out the 7i43 lines and get an error 'HOSTMOT2 DRIVER not found
[19:17:26] <pcw_home> atom1 I dont think so, i think ist on 2.6+
[19:17:33] <zeeshan> i should try to listen to the motors
[19:17:36] <zeeshan> and listen for oscillations?
[19:17:44] <atom1> running 2.6.5
[19:18:08] <zeeshan> Rab: what is price difference between those 2 drives
[19:18:15] <zeeshan> that youve found
[19:18:25] <pcw_home> I think you use hm2_7i90
[19:19:04] <Rab> zeeshan, they're all over the map. I'm just trying to identify a particular model to look for, or see which models might work.
[19:19:22] <atom1> on the CONFIG line?
[19:19:57] <zeeshan> Rab: i highly recommend be25a20ac if you can get it for a reasonable cost in comaprison to the be15a8
[19:20:14] <zeeshan> mainly because you do hall commutation with it, and it supports tachometers on top of hall and enc.
[19:20:20] <pcw_home> where you used to have hm2_7i43
[19:20:20] <zeeshan> hall velocity i mean
[19:20:23] <Rab> zeeshan, could be, eBay prices seem to have no relationship to the specs.
[19:20:31] <atom1> ok that's where i put it
[19:20:34] <zeeshan> Rab: i paid 180 for 5 of them
[19:20:40] <zeeshan> so you can get a gauge of price from that
[19:20:42] <atom1> DRIVER=hm2_7i90
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[19:20:54] <zeeshan> they could go for sale for 40ish
[19:21:02] <atom1> also BOARD=7i90
[19:21:07] <zeeshan> since youre a scavenger like me
[19:21:09] <Rab> zeeshan, that sounds like a great deal. $80/ea is more typical.
[19:21:12] <zeeshan> you'll like that
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[19:21:18] <atom1> CONFIG="num_encoders=2 num_stepgens=4 sserial_port_0=20xxxxxx"
[19:21:19] <zeeshan> since you can run whatever kind of servo you want
[19:21:22] <atom1> for the config line then
[19:21:39] <atom1> since the bit file is loaded in eeprom
[19:21:46] <Rab> zeeshan, my friend is checking out a defunct robotics warehouse in the Bay Area today. So I might get all kinds of crap for free.
[19:23:15] <zeeshan> nice man
[19:23:41] <zeeshan> i lied
[19:23:43] <zeeshan> i paid 240 for 5
[19:23:44] <atom1> hm2: no firmware specified in config modparam! the board had better have firmware configured already, or this won't work
[19:23:44] <zeeshan> not 180
[19:23:45] <atom1> haha
[19:23:50] <atom1> nice warning
[19:23:50] <zeeshan> 48 bux a drive
[19:25:04] <atom1> it's not showing the correct config though
[19:25:38] <atom1> sserial isn't showing up in dmesg
[19:26:07] <pcw_home> sserial does not show up unless remotes are connected
[19:26:15] <atom1> one is connected
[19:26:27] <pcw_home> well then its not working
[19:26:32] <atom1> i'll post dmesg
[19:28:35] <atom1> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/bitfiles/dmesg.txt
[19:29:28] <atom1> sserial is on IO 13, 15, 22, 23 with IO13 & 22 wired to a board
[19:31:39] <pcw_home> well no comms to remote for some reason
[19:31:47] <atom1> ok it's getting better... still got config errors from switching boards.
[19:32:28] <atom1> not sure i'll admit what it was...
[19:32:46] <atom1> the plug wasn't seated on the 7i47 for the sserial :(
[19:36:05] <pcw_home> Actually the driver should show sserial pins on enabled but non working channels (maybe with a no-go note)
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[19:36:37] <pcw_home> so thats a minor driver bug
[19:36:45] <atom1> dmesg just shows IoPort for non wired sserial
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[19:37:06] <pcw_home> Yeah thats really a bug
[19:37:07] <atom1> wired show Smart Serial Interface #0, pin TxData0 (Output)
[19:37:54] <atom1> i expected config errors switching boards
[19:38:02] <atom1> pretty sure i can get those
[19:38:43] <pcw_home> enabled but non-working should be something like
[19:38:44] <pcw_home> Smart Serial Interface #0, pin TxData0 (Output) Error: No device Found
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[19:43:07] <atom1> mesaflash shows sseral now:
[19:43:11] <atom1> SSLBP port 0:
[19:43:11] <atom1> SSLBP Version: 1.43
[19:43:11] <atom1> SSLBP Channels: 2
[19:43:11] <atom1> SSLBP Baud Rate: 2500000
[19:43:11] <atom1> sserial device at channel 0: 7I84 GPIO (unit 0x12345678)
[19:43:12] <atom1> SwRevision = 14
[19:43:14] <atom1> HwRevision = 1
[19:43:16] <atom1> NVBaudRate = 2.5Mb
[19:43:18] <atom1> NVUnitNumber = 0x12345678
[19:43:20] <atom1> NVWatchDogTimeout = 50ms
[19:43:22] <atom1> SOFTWARE MODE Input_Output [index 00]
[19:43:24] <atom1> SOFTWARE MODE IO_Analog_FieldVoltage [index 01]
[19:43:26] <atom1> SOFTWARE MODE IO_Encoder_Analog [index 02]
[19:46:10] <atom1> zlog,
[19:46:11] <zlog> atom1: Log stored at http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2015-01-16.html
[19:46:13] <pcw_home> ha you got a non-released 7I84
[19:46:20] <atom1> :D
[19:46:24] <atom1> shh
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[19:49:18] <zeeshan> haX
[19:49:47] <bobo_> zeeshan; I vote for inspecting servo motors and their tack's for carbon brush -brush holder -and their spring . will be a good time to find out what that brake really is
[19:49:59] <zeeshan> bobo_: i have the manual
[19:50:06] <zeeshan> it works
[19:50:08] <zeeshan> i aint takin it apart!
[19:50:15] <zeeshan> more fun to make parts
[19:50:54] <bobo_> brush servo communtator?
[19:51:09] <zeeshan> yes
[19:51:14] <zeeshan> id think its kinda like a car alternator
[19:52:05] <bobo_> alternator are cheep
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[19:54:03] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZiYcAnW.png
[19:54:08] <zeeshan> man i really caNNOT figure this out
[19:54:12] <zeeshan> no matter how i place the diode
[19:54:15] <zeeshan> i have a short circuit
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[19:54:33] <zeeshan> can i add resistors
[19:54:34] <zeeshan> or something
[19:55:39] <atom1> what good's that gonna do?
[19:55:55] <atom1> there's a diode across the hydraulic solenoid
[19:56:06] <zeeshan> im looking at the brake
[19:56:18] <atom1> is your z_brake wired backwards
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[19:56:26] <atom1> to handle a diode
[19:56:31] <zeeshan> its electromagnetic brake
[19:56:34] <bobo_> more like car generator . is the schematic for a Mikron or a maho mh400 ?
[19:56:40] <zeeshan> one way it engages, another it disengages
[19:56:46] <zeeshan> bobo_: for the mikron
[19:56:55] <atom1> if you have one there and one on the hydraulics they will conduct if they're not the same direction
[19:56:56] <zeeshan> its not for any trin
[19:57:06] <zeeshan> i built the diagram, its not the standard
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[19:59:41] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/FelqAzj.png
[19:59:49] <zeeshan> wont that prevent a short circuit
[19:59:57] <bobo_> the schematic showing a diode in series with/to brake coil ,is wrong or brake is not correct . or bobo is nuts
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[20:00:21] <zeeshan> bobo_: there is no diode there
[20:00:22] <zeeshan> :P
[20:00:40] <zeeshan> the diagram i just posted has diode
[20:01:57] <bobo_> pin 207 diode 9y1
[20:02:18] <zeeshan> link of diagram?
[20:02:25] <Nick001-shop> <pcw_home> you around?
[20:02:31] <zeeshan> Nick001-shop: hes mine first!
[20:02:32] <zeeshan> :]
[20:02:46] <zeeshan> jk
[20:02:59] <pcw_home> for a bit
[20:03:13] <bobo_> one of your pre links today
[20:03:45] <Nick001-shop> need to settle on the boards I need to do this Hardinge
[20:04:08] <bobo_> boj0uvw.png ?
[20:05:29] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i promise last Q for the day!
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[20:05:30] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/FelqAzj.png
[20:05:33] <zeeshan> does this look good to you
[20:05:34] <bobo_> zeeshan link boj0uwv.png ?
[20:05:35] <zeeshan> the latching circuit
[20:05:56] <zeeshan> that diagram is the maho
[20:05:59] <zeeshan> 400e.
[20:06:27] <bobo_> zeeshan link boj0uvw ?
[20:06:32] <zeeshan> yes bobo
[20:06:33] <zeeshan> that link
[20:07:44] <Nick001-shop> my list has a 7i49 and 7i49hv - I think I need the 7i49hv like ssi got for his machine
[20:08:07] <pcw_home> you can replace the two diodes and resistor with one varistor (or say 200 Ohm 5W resistor)
[20:08:36] <bobo_> boj0uwv
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[20:10:24] <pcw_home> Yeah its likely the resolvers are the same
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[20:10:54] <zeeshan> pcw_home: im sorry but ive never used a varistor before
[20:11:12] <pcw_home> like a MOV device
[20:11:44] <zeeshan> yea but digikey is asking me for a lot of stuff
[20:11:49] <zeeshan> "current surge"
[20:11:55] <zeeshan> energy
[20:12:09] <zeeshan> varistor min voltage, varistooltage typical
[20:13:21] <bobo_> raw neon bulb ?
[20:14:09] <zeeshan> http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics_technical/application_notes/varistors/littelfuse_selecting_a_littelfuse_varistor_application_note.pdf
[20:14:12] <zeeshan> finally found a good pdf
[20:15:49] <zeeshan> okay i give up on the varistor
[20:15:53] <zeeshan> too much reading
[20:15:53] <zeeshan> haha
[20:16:07] <zeeshan> if i dont do it right ill blow something up
[20:16:51] <bobo_> raw neon would be approx 60 volt clamp
[20:17:35] <bobo_> raw = no series restor
[20:17:54] <pcw_home> well may not last long at 1A
[20:18:00] <zeeshan> lol
[20:18:20] <zeeshan> pcw_home: why did you say 200ohm
[20:18:22] <zeeshan> 5W
[20:18:30] <zeeshan> why not 1k
[20:18:36] <pcw_home> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MOV-10D560KTR/MOV-10D560KCT-ND/4318164
[20:18:37] <pcw_home> should be close
[20:18:54] <pcw_home> because 1K * 1A = 1000V
[20:19:15] <pcw_home> too bitey
[20:19:36] <zeeshan> but then theyre gonna sit there
[20:19:39] <zeeshan> drawing .12mA
[20:19:42] <zeeshan> 120mA
[20:19:48] <zeeshan> so i guess its a balancing act
[20:20:06] <pcw_home> well thats why you use a varistor :-)
[20:20:10] <zeeshan> haha
[20:20:20] <zeeshan> im gonan see if i can find something like the one you posted locally
[20:20:29] <zeeshan> will a tv circuit board have this
[20:20:36] <zeeshan> or radio
[20:20:56] <pcw_home> a TV may but it will probably be 600V or so
[20:22:10] <pcw_home> Dont know enough about your brake but you may be able to remove power after switching mode
[20:22:41] <zeeshan> thats what i did the other day
[20:22:53] <zeeshan> i just engaged it for like 1 sec (a tap on the 24vdc supply rail)
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[20:23:02] <zeeshan> and it locked and it didnt need anymore power to lock further
[20:23:42] <zeeshan> i'd need 3 relays to do that right?
[20:24:52] <pcw_home> maybe not sure, its possible to get pretty clever with relays...
[20:25:01] * Loetmichel got some fish in his whiskey ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15544&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[20:25:15] <pcw_home> bbl
[20:25:23] <zeeshan> either way i need the varistor right?
[20:25:46] <zeeshan> loetmichel
[20:25:47] <zeeshan> !!!!!!!!!!111
[20:25:52] <zeeshan> befor eyou get drunk
[20:25:56] <zeeshan> translate a manual for me!!!!!
[20:26:00] <zeeshan> :]
[20:26:13] <Loetmichel> thats a small glass
[20:26:24] <Loetmichel> no danger to get drunk from that
[20:26:27] <zeeshan> hhaha
[20:28:16] <PetefromTn_> Loetmichel Did you make a fish ice cube mold or something?
[20:29:12] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn_: bought it from ikea
[20:29:39] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: how big a manual?
[20:30:08] <zeeshan> https://pdf.yt/d/J7p7vtwzKOA8cGvy
[20:30:14] <zeeshan> 11&12 of the pdf
[20:30:34] <zeeshan> 7/11 , 7/12 on the physical page
[20:30:47] <zeeshan> under the section holding brake
[20:30:52] <zeeshan> halltebremse
[20:30:59] <zeeshan> you dont need to translate it fully
[20:31:07] <zeeshan> but i want an idea of what theyre sayin
[20:31:16] <Loetmichel> gimme a moment... have elite dangersous running in the BG, PC is a bit "unresoponsive
[20:31:36] <zeeshan> :D
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[20:39:56] <bobo_> zeeshan ;looks very like ( page 7-12 top left illustration ) mh400 brake circuit
[20:41:20] <bobo_> ie no polarity change to brake/dis-brake
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[20:41:50] <zeeshan> then what the hell is going on with my stuff.
[20:42:35] <PetefromTn_> what is the problem?
[20:42:40] <zeeshan> [15:37:24] <Loetmichel> the brake is a "power to free" type
[20:42:45] <zeeshan> loetmichel trsnslation the manual too
[20:42:51] <zeeshan> 15:38:08] <Loetmichel> i.E: closed without current and opens on current flow
[20:43:03] <bobo_> Mikron does like you
[20:43:24] <bobo_> does not like
[20:43:27] <zeeshan> haha
[20:43:40] <zeeshan> im just gonan use the mill as an X and Y milling machine
[20:43:42] <zeeshan> !@
[20:44:27] <bobo_> with a jack under the table ?
[20:44:34] <zeeshan> yea!
[20:44:43] <PetefromTn_> little bottle jack with stepper?
[20:44:45] <roycroft> i need to make some mounting blocks that will be repositionable on some 5/8" ss rails
[20:44:47] <zeeshan> LOL PetefromTn_
[20:45:00] <roycroft> i was looking for a 0.6255" reamer, but could only find 0.0260"
[20:45:11] <roycroft> is 10 thousandths too much slop for something like that?
[20:45:23] <roycroft> it's not a precision mounting, but i want to be able to move the blocks smoothly
[20:45:24] <PetefromTn_> thats way more than .01
[20:45:35] <roycroft> er, 0.6260"
[20:45:50] <roycroft> sorry
[20:45:53] <zeeshan> whats the tolerance on the 5/8 rail?
[20:45:55] <_methods> that might be tight
[20:45:59] <_methods> tgp rail?
[20:46:12] <roycroft> it's ss, and pretty tight tolerance
[20:46:17] <zeeshan> that doesnt help
[20:46:18] <zeeshan> lol
[20:46:18] <roycroft> i think +- 0.002" or so
[20:46:22] <_methods> is it tgp?
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[20:46:28] <_methods> or ss rod?
[20:46:32] <roycroft> ss rod
[20:46:34] <zeeshan> roycroft: then neither will work
[20:46:35] <PetefromTn_> thats only .0005..
[20:46:47] <zeeshan> you need to get a .628 reamer
[20:46:59] <zeeshan> to ensure at least 0.001 clearance
[20:47:09] <_methods> what are the blocks made out of?
[20:47:14] <roycroft> doh, yes - i'm off by an order of magnitude
[20:47:21] <roycroft> unknown scrap, but probably 1018
[20:47:31] <zeeshan> in this case you look at maximum material condition
[20:47:40] <zeeshan> 5/8 rod = .627 MMC
[20:47:41] <_methods> i'd drop in bronze bushings if possible
[20:47:55] <roycroft> the blocks will hardly ever move
[20:48:06] <roycroft> like once/twice per year
[20:48:13] <_methods> oh well nm then lol
[20:48:18] <zeeshan> does it need to be accurate?
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[20:48:24] <zeeshan> cause you should add more slop if you can.
[20:48:29] <roycroft> only enough that it's not frustrating to move them
[20:48:44] <roycroft> probably "reaming" the holes with a 5/8" twist drill would be fine
[20:48:48] <zeeshan> id leave a 3 thou gap then
[20:48:53] <zeeshan> yea
[20:49:26] <zeeshan> you said reeamer
[20:49:33] <roycroft> yes
[20:49:35] <zeeshan> so i assumed it had to be precise :P
[20:49:47] <roycroft> it just needs to be bigger than 0.6250"
[20:50:26] <roycroft> even if the rod was dead on precise, 0 clearance does not make for easy sliding
[20:50:34] <zeeshan> yea
[20:50:37] <zeeshan> thats considered a transition fit
[20:50:45] <PetefromTn_> slip fitment is USUALLY .001 or so..
[20:50:48] <zeeshan> which in my experience can need anywhere from 10-50lb of force
[20:50:58] <roycroft> i want finger force
[20:51:09] <roycroft> and i'm getting arthritic in my old age, so there's not a lot of finger force left
[20:51:24] <PetefromTn_> well take a caliper to your fingers so we can get an idea of thier strength ratio DOH!
[20:51:36] <zeeshan> you wont get finger force with regular slides
[20:51:39] <zeeshan> youll need ball bearing
[20:51:58] <roycroft> completely unnecessary
[20:52:04] <zeeshan> you're the one who said finger force!
[20:52:05] <zeeshan> lazy ass!
[20:52:14] <bobo_> paper in reamer land to increase size
[20:52:36] <roycroft> maybe i'll just take a boring head and enlarge the holes a bit until i get a slip fit
[20:52:40] <zeeshan> bobo_:
[20:52:43] <zeeshan> your wish is granted i guess
[20:52:45] <roycroft> i think i have a boring bit small enough to fit
[20:52:51] <zeeshan> i have to take this servo motor apart :-(
[20:53:10] <PetefromTn_> why?
[20:53:19] <zeeshan> brake is dysfunctional
[20:53:27] <zeeshan> it should automatically be engaging
[20:53:31] <zeeshan> when there is no current
[20:53:40] <zeeshan> but i have to give it current to engage
[20:53:42] <zeeshan> something is up
[20:53:51] <bobo_> good for me not so good for you
[20:54:16] <PetefromTn_> are you sure that is not how it was designed to operate...doubtful.
[20:54:42] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: Loetmichel translated the manual for me
[20:54:58] <zeeshan> and it described that it should engage with no current
[20:54:59] <PetefromTn_> jeez sucks to have to translate manuals LOL
[20:55:05] <zeeshan> LOL yea!
[20:55:07] <zeeshan> sicherungsautomat
[20:55:11] <zeeshan> what the hell is that
[20:55:13] <PetefromTn_> but that is how mine works and from what I understand how most work
[20:55:15] <zeeshan> circuit protection?
[20:55:21] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: yea man
[20:55:29] <zeeshan> it makes no sense to have to apply current
[20:55:31] <zeeshan> to engage a brake
[20:55:33] <zeeshan> thats not failsafe
[20:57:14] <roycroft> excellent - i have a 1/2" boring bit that's long enough
[20:57:43] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: sounds like the brake is either demagnetized or another type that is energized for braking
[20:58:01] <Loetmichel> or you have put too much current thru it
[20:58:28] <Loetmichel> it works by building up an "reversed magnetic field" on the brakes core
[20:58:48] <PetefromTn_> I understand that taking servo motors apart can damge them somehow I would try to see if you can take apart the brake without dismantling the whole motor if possible.
[20:58:56] <Loetmichel> which counteracts the internal rqare earth magnets taht provide the "nonenergized" braking force
[20:59:20] <Loetmichel> so the brake loosenes
[20:59:24] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: it looks like its all part of it
[20:59:25] <zeeshan> :(
[20:59:40] <bobo_> or it was made in china
[20:59:42] <Loetmichel> if you put WAY to much current trhu you will demagnetize said internal rare earth magnets
[20:59:45] <zeeshan> Loetmichel: how can you put too much current through it
[20:59:49] <PetefromTn_> yeah mine is that way too just thought I would explain..
[20:59:51] <Loetmichel> bobo_: siemens: i dount it
[21:00:02] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: simple: too much voltage
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[21:00:08] <zeeshan> im only giving it 24vdc
[21:00:12] <Loetmichel> i would say: 48V could do the trick
[21:00:27] <bobo_> they snuck it in
[21:00:48] <zeeshan> when i read wiki
[21:00:49] <zeeshan> it says this:
[21:01:20] <zeeshan> A permanent magnet holding brake looks very similar to a standard power applied electromagnetic brake. Instead of squeezing a friction disk, via springs, it uses permanent magnets to attract a single face armature. When the brake is engaged, the permanent magnets create magnetic lines of flux, which can in turn attract the armature to the brake housing. To disengage the brake, power is applied to
[21:01:29] <zeeshan> the coil which sets up an alternate magnetic field that cancels out the magnetic flux of the permanent magnets.
[21:01:44] <zeeshan> that wiki description is what i am experiecing.
[21:01:48] <zeeshan> that ihave to reverse the polarity on the coil
[21:01:50] <zeeshan> to make it switch
[21:03:59] <bobo_> magnet or electro mag I vote for no power ==braked
[21:04:10] <zeeshan> one thing i havent tried is this
[21:04:27] <zeeshan> after disengaging the brake
[21:04:39] <zeeshan> then shorting the brake terminals together
[21:04:43] <zeeshan> through a resistor
[21:04:53] <zeeshan> i doubt that's gonan work. its not like its a capacitor :)
[21:05:08] * zeeshan hates electronics :(!!
[21:05:52] <bobo_> this is more like a light bulb
[21:06:16] <PetefromTn_> your Z is the KNEE right?
[21:06:27] <zeeshan> yes PetefromTn_
[21:07:02] <PetefromTn_> so if the brake failed the table will roll to the bottom of travel then.
[21:07:08] <zeeshan> yes
[21:07:35] <bobo_> roll=race
[21:07:57] <PetefromTn_> does it fall quickly when it does fall it sounds like you have already experienced this right
[21:09:27] <zeeshan> haha
[21:09:35] <zeeshan> like 3 inch / min
[21:09:49] <zeeshan> once it gains momentum
[21:09:49] <PetefromTn_> does it accelerate when it falls?
[21:09:53] <zeeshan> nahh
[21:09:55] <zeeshan> 3ipm peak
[21:10:01] <PetefromTn_> wow thats not bad..
[21:10:10] <zeeshan> its ball screws
[21:10:14] <PetefromTn_> my millhead starts slow but quickly accelerates
[21:10:15] <zeeshan> but theres still gibs that put friction
[21:10:25] audioburn__away is now known as Audioburn
[21:10:43] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: hehehe
[21:10:45] <zeeshan> thats worse!
[21:10:46] <PetefromTn_> I only let it fall a couple inches one time to the forklift forks LOL
[21:10:49] <zeeshan> cause if you let it fall
[21:10:54] <zeeshan> you can hurt your spindle and your table face
[21:11:09] <PetefromTn_> yeah but I never let that happen.
[21:11:16] <zeeshan> unlike me
[21:11:18] <zeeshan> whos already crashed the table
[21:11:20] <zeeshan> :-)
[21:11:36] <bobo_> approx 500lbs on a ball screw all vertical and gravity sucks
[21:11:53] <PetefromTn_> it was supported with the forks of the guy I bought it from's Forklift just wanted to see how heavy it was and if I could crank it up manually which I was able to do..
[21:15:22] <bobo_> 3 inch/min must have been non oiled (squeek squeek ) gumed up ways
[21:15:54] <PetefromTn_> or a tight pitch screw
[21:15:58] <zeeshan> 5mm screw
[21:16:07] <zeeshan> .196"
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[21:16:16] <zeeshan> actually
[21:16:19] <zeeshan> it might not be 5mm.
[21:16:26] <zeeshan> that was x and y. i cant access z.
[21:16:33] <zeeshan> its hidden behind a telescoping cover
[21:17:23] <bobo_> cover that"s covered dang
[21:17:59] <zeeshan> i figured out
[21:18:19] <zeeshan> how to use mesa to engage this thing.
[21:19:17] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/HrNusZe.png
[21:19:22] <zeeshan> please do an insanity check with me!
[21:19:40] <zeeshan> as drawn is default state.
[21:20:03] <zeeshan> wait.
[21:20:05] <zeeshan> whoops
[21:20:45] <zeeshan> its not fail safe
[21:20:46] <zeeshan> :(
[21:23:20] <bobo_> I vote for diodes across relay coils at least those hooked to the 7I77
[21:23:33] <zeeshan> thats intenral
[21:23:34] <zeeshan> in the relay
[21:23:46] <zeeshan> im try8ing to figure out
[21:23:55] <zeeshan> how to use 2 relays, independently actuated from 7i77
[21:24:01] <zeeshan> to have 3 states.
[21:24:05] <zeeshan> no power.
[21:24:15] <zeeshan> disengage
[21:24:16] <zeeshan> engage
[21:24:22] <zeeshan> but i need it to default to engage
[21:24:27] <zeeshan> if power is removed.
[21:28:43] <SpeedEvil> do you have dual throw relays?
[21:28:47] <zeeshan> no
[21:28:51] <bobo_> try engage that is over riden by dis-engage it still would not give me a warm fuzzy feeling
[21:28:53] <SpeedEvil> that is -normally opened and normally closed contacts?
[21:28:58] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: yes
[21:29:21] <SpeedEvil> you clearly need to wire it so that both off is engage
[21:29:30] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: dont belittle me!
[21:29:35] * SpeedEvil would draw it up but is too tired.
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[21:29:48] <zeeshan> i kid
[21:29:51] <zeeshan> dont bother i have it
[21:29:55] <zeeshan> you can help check it :-)
[21:30:07] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ukgL9Wh.png
[21:30:17] <zeeshan> default state is engage right now.
[21:30:34] <zeeshan> i need to change both output 1 and output 3 state
[21:30:42] <zeeshan> to reverse the current flow
[21:30:59] <zeeshan> but if i change either output1 OR output 2 to be opposite states
[21:31:08] <zeeshan> it'll stop current flow
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[21:32:57] <zeeshan> so my plane of action is this, on initial startup, current will be flowing through the brake to engage it.
[21:33:04] <zeeshan> after linuxcnc is run
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[21:33:34] <zeeshan> a startup condition will be called to change output 3's state. now current will not flow anymore, lessening the load on the coils of the brake and the power supply
[21:33:37] <PetefromTn_> that sucks you will be relying on power to be on AND off with the brake.
[21:33:50] <zeeshan> when axis has machine on called
[21:33:58] <zeeshan> it will flip the state of output #1
[21:34:09] <zeeshan> brake will disengage.
[21:34:28] <zeeshan> and 5 seconds later
[21:34:39] <zeeshan> it will remove power from it (brake will continue to be disengaged)
[21:34:51] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: yea man
[21:34:53] <zeeshan> it SUCKS
[21:35:13] <zeeshan> is going to make software setup a bit annoying
[21:35:24] <zeeshan> im gonna definitely test the brake out before hooking anything up
[21:35:31] <zeeshan> hooking up the Z axis i mean
[21:35:40] <zeeshan> ensure its doing what i want it to
[21:35:55] <PetefromTn_> is there any kind of bumper at the bottom of travel in case of a failure? just curious..
[21:36:07] <bobo_> foot
[21:36:21] <PetefromTn_> besides your feet I mean LOL
[21:36:27] <zeeshan> to be honest
[21:36:29] <zeeshan> i havent paid attention
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[21:37:09] <zeeshan> i wish i had a varistor
[21:37:12] <bobo_> may be top of ballscrew
[21:37:14] <zeeshan> id be more inclined to go test this right now
[21:37:45] <zeeshan> http://pastebin.com/4PaRqiKY
[21:37:49] <zeeshan> thats the closest varistor i can find locally
[21:37:51] <zeeshan> i dont know if tiw ill work
[21:39:18] <bobo_> zeeshan: if brake is only pulsed than a neon could/should work
[21:39:33] <zeeshan> bobo_: not sure how long the duration of pulse needs to be
[21:39:41] <zeeshan> i will have to find that out through testing
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[21:40:37] <SpeedEvil> what for?
[21:40:46] <bobo_> try a 40 watt 120 volt lightbulb
[21:40:48] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil:
[21:40:50] <zeeshan> the varistor?
[21:40:53] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[21:41:05] <zeeshan> for back emf?
[21:41:11] <zeeshan> current spike
[21:41:33] <zeeshan> bobo_: haha
[21:41:40] <zeeshan> do you seriously want me to put a light bulb in my enclosure
[21:41:49] <zeeshan> :D
[21:42:04] <SpeedEvil> current spike - driven by what
[21:42:32] <bobo_> just to test across brake coil
[21:42:35] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: my electronics knowledge is not good, so please know that.
[21:42:49] <SpeedEvil> If you don' overly care about power consumption - hten simply putting a resistor of the same resistance of the coil across it works well
[21:42:50] <zeeshan> but my understanding of it is that you need a diode in parallel with a solenoid
[21:43:04] <SpeedEvil> this means that when it turns off, it will go to double the nominal voltage, but no more
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[21:43:39] <zeeshan> current it draws 1A
[21:43:43] <zeeshan> wouldnt that mean itll draw 2A?
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[21:43:49] <SpeedEvil> yes
[21:43:56] <zeeshan> that is not a big deal
[21:44:13] <zeeshan> as long as it doesnt spike
[21:44:36] <zeeshan> youre basically dscribing a parallel RL circuit
[21:44:52] <furrywolf> completely off-topic question: I'm flying tomorrow, and need a way to kill many many hours on a plane. anyone have a mythbusters collection and a fast connection?
[21:45:22] <furrywolf> normally I can't stand TV, but it's that or try reading on a noisy plane and the invariable 27 screaming children all seated around you...
[21:45:32] <zeeshan> furrywolf: wher eyou going to
[21:46:01] <furrywolf> new jersey. the unpleasant side of the country.
[21:46:44] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: would i need a 30watt resistor
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[21:48:21] <bobo_> not for a pulsed signal try 5watt
[21:48:27] <zeeshan> remember
[21:48:32] <zeeshan> it might be as much as 5seconds
[21:48:33] * furrywolf hopes someone here has them downloaded, and can share them with a non-torrent-using person
[21:48:36] <zeeshan> sometimes even longer
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[21:49:36] <bobo_> see why the orig cab was sooooooo large
[21:49:44] <zeeshan> lol
[21:49:51] <zeeshan> no i dont
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[21:52:37] <zeeshan> why are people so againist using varistors
[21:52:45] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: is the 3rd person whos like why use a varistor
[21:56:09] <bobo_> varistors heat up are not precise (mfg slop ) used mostly a a cheep half way fix
[21:56:28] <zeeshan> thats what pcw recommends
[21:56:30] <zeeshan> and so does siemens!
[21:57:18] <bobo_> they are quick to implement
[21:58:04] <zeeshan> i think i understand how to select em
[21:58:14] <zeeshan> you first decide what you want the clamping voltage to be
[21:58:30] <zeeshan> then ensure the rms voltage is adequate for your regular circuit use
[21:59:26] <zeeshan> then you choose surge current a
[21:59:29] <zeeshan> capability
[21:59:30] * furrywolf isn't good at downloading things, and needs to find someone who is!
[21:59:37] <zeeshan> furrywolf: what do you wanna draw
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[22:00:13] <furrywolf> ?
[22:00:23] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: tip #1 to being good at it
[22:00:24] <zeeshan> i read that as draw.
[22:00:27] <zeeshan> im clearly losing my inmd
[22:00:28] <SpeedEvil> Have a fast connection
[22:00:31] <zeeshan> stupid electronics!
[22:00:44] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: why areyou against varistors!
[22:00:44] <furrywolf> speedevil: bah
[22:01:19] <furrywolf> I want to "draw" the last dozen or so episodes of mythbusters, so if I get sick of trying to read, I have something to do for the 16-ish hours I'm stuck on a plane...
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[22:02:45] <SpeedEvil> download from what source?
[22:02:58] -!- Tom_L [Tom_L!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:03:00] <furrywolf> the internet. :P
[22:03:08] <furrywolf> anywhere that has a functional file
[22:03:09] <furrywolf> heh
[22:03:55] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:04:43] <SpeedEvil> Do you mean over a decent connection, or your crappy nets?
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[22:05:34] <furrywolf> my plan is to fetch them onto my linode now, then get them from there while waiting at the airport, which has 4g.
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[22:06:09] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:06:26] <SpeedEvil> In principle, find a suitable torrent on http://kickass.to/ for example
[22:07:06] <furrywolf> yes, except I have no torrent client on my linode, linode does not like torrenting users, and my home isp has torrents completely blocked.
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[22:07:28] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:08:00] <furrywolf> I used to be able to download them through a proxy, but now my isp even blocks udp tracker connection attempts, and they seem harder to proxy than http...
[22:08:16] <SpeedEvil> https://www.usenetserver.com/
[22:08:25] -!- jduhls has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[22:09:02] * furrywolf suspects that's a "send us money" link
[22:09:20] <SpeedEvil> offers a 10gb free trial - you'd then need to find a suitable downloader - not hard
[22:10:35] <furrywolf> got a few of them downloading now by fetching the video urls on streaming sites
[22:11:32] <SpeedEvil> Dure - if you can find sites where that works - great
[22:11:36] <SpeedEvil> not always possible
[22:12:12] <furrywolf> 95% of links seem to be "Deleted due to copyright complaint" or similar. heh.
[22:13:45] <Jymmm> http://www.tubeplus.me/player/2124462/MythBusters/season_14/episode_1/Star_Wars%3A_Revenge_of_the_Myth/%22
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[22:14:37] <bobo_> zeeshan : might LeelooMinai have a part you could borrow ? hope this isn't a fo-paw
[22:16:14] <zeeshan> :P
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[22:20:12] <roycroft> i opened a hole up 0.005" with a boring head and the rod passes through nicely now
[22:20:31] <roycroft> sometimes i forget that a boring head is an adjustable diameter drill bit :)
[22:21:42] <zeeshan> nice
[22:21:42] <zeeshan> :D
[22:22:36] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:23:22] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: any other sugestions?
[22:23:26] <zeeshan> for my setup!
[22:23:33] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: I'm barely awake
[22:23:39] <zeeshan> Sleep!
[22:27:27] <furrywolf> I really wish my home connection worked like my linode.
[22:27:32] <furrywolf> why the hell don't I get 10MB/sec here? :P
[22:29:04] <bobo_> zeeshan; varistors work by heating up , thus changing ohms but what is their recovery time ?
[22:29:20] <zeeshan> bobo_: no idea
[22:29:29] <zeeshan> im still staring at my diagrom
[22:29:33] <zeeshan> and trying ti figure out how i can use 2 diodes
[22:29:38] <zeeshan> no matter how i look at it is.
[22:29:39] <zeeshan> it doesnt work.
[22:30:11] <PCW> bobo_ PTCs work by heating up, not varistors
[22:30:23] <furrywolf> what are you trying to do?
[22:30:29] * furrywolf missed the start of this conversation
[22:30:35] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZiYcAnW.png
[22:30:37] <zeeshan> supress that circuit
[22:30:47] <zeeshan> i dont have access to a varistor
[22:30:49] <roycroft> my comcastic connection just got bumped up to 50Mb/s
[22:30:50] <zeeshan> i only have diodes
[22:30:59] <roycroft> so i'm getting a steady 6Mb/s on a good day
[22:31:04] <zeeshan> couple of 5.6ohm 25 watt resistors
[22:31:09] <roycroft> until 5:10 pm, when all my neighbors get home from work
[22:31:14] <roycroft> then i'm lucky to get 1Mb/s
[22:31:29] <furrywolf> image does not exist.
[22:32:00] <zeeshan> er
[22:32:02] <zeeshan> wrong diagram thats why
[22:32:10] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ukgL9Wh.png
[22:32:11] <zeeshan> there we go
[22:32:18] <PCW> a 20 cent varistor will work fine (and dissipate power only for 20 or so ms when switcing)
[22:32:40] <PCW> a RC snubber will work also
[22:33:19] <zeeshan> i must be calculating rresistor power rating wrong
[22:33:24] <zeeshan> i keep getting 27Watt
[22:33:35] <zeeshan> that seems overly large for this,.
[22:33:40] <furrywolf> the z-brake?
[22:33:44] <zeeshan> yes
[22:33:53] <furrywolf> and you're trying to prevent relay contact arcing?
[22:33:56] <bobo_> furrywoly; trying not to disassemble motor to find out why it's brake doesn't function as mfg says
[22:34:05] <zeeshan> i dont care about relay contact arcing
[22:34:10] <zeeshan> im more worried about blowing up my power supply
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[22:34:32] <furrywolf> won't happen.
[22:34:40] <zeeshan> why
[22:35:01] <zeeshan> where will the back emf dissipate
[22:35:18] <furrywolf> if you're switching with relays, other than a bit of arcing, the voltage surge from the coil can't get back to the supply... and even if it's a remarkably good arc, the filter caps in the supply will happily absorb it.
[22:35:22] <furrywolf> in core losses in the brake coil.
[22:35:51] <zeeshan> okay
[22:35:53] <zeeshan> then screw this
[22:36:00] <zeeshan> im gonna test without a varistor
[22:36:04] <zeeshan> when i get time ill go buy one and throw it on.
[22:36:07] <zeeshan> thank u!
[22:36:13] <zeeshan> ive been worrying about this for hours now for no reason
[22:36:29] <furrywolf> if you're really paranoid, you could toss a condensor across the brake coil (grab one for $2 from an auto parts store), but I wouldn't worry about it.
[22:37:07] <zeeshan> the only condenser i know of
[22:37:10] <zeeshan> is for your ac ;)
[22:37:24] <furrywolf> the condensor would prolong relay contact life, but I suspect the relays will last a very long time anyway if properly sized.
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[22:37:40] <zeeshan> theyre over sized.
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[22:37:45] <zeeshan> its a 20A relay
[22:37:49] <furrywolf> condensor is an archaic term for capacitor, still used to refer to the capacitors used on ignition coils on points ignitions to reduce contact erosion.
[22:37:52] <zeeshan> seeing 1 A.
[22:38:01] <zeeshan> i was honestly worrying about blowing up my power supply
[22:38:03] <furrywolf> yeah, you won't have any problem. lol
[22:38:05] <zeeshan> cause i have done that with SMPS
[22:38:12] <zeeshan> whjen driving stepper motor drives
[22:38:17] <zeeshan> the back emf owned the power supply
[22:38:30] <zeeshan> but that must be a shit load more back emf than this
[22:38:39] <zeeshan> 72VDC, 6A
[22:38:46] <zeeshan> i dunno what that generates.
[22:39:01] <furrywolf> a) crappy power supply, b) that's decelerating a motor, with the energy being supplied back to the supply through semiconductors... not simply deenergizing a coil, with the coil isolated by the air gap of relays.
[22:40:35] <furrywolf> it wasn't back emf... it was the motor acting as a generator on deceleration
[22:41:12] <furrywolf> that's one of the reasons I decided to build my mill using an unregulated supply rather than the switchers I already had. :)
[22:41:30] <zeeshan> yea
[22:41:36] <zeeshan> i havent had issues with the toriod supply
[22:41:38] <zeeshan> with the same setup
[22:44:47] <zeeshan> furrywolf: did you build your own supply?
[22:47:02] <furrywolf> am building.
[22:51:27] <furrywolf> got a 40vac 625va toroid, 50a bridge, 37000uf cap, and a fuse holder. not too many parts needed. :)
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[23:05:46] <zeeshan> those toriods are expensive
[23:15:51] <SpeedEvil> not if you steal them.
[23:16:07] <zeeshan> sleep SpeedEvil
[23:16:10] <zeeshan> you are dreaming!
[23:16:27] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: what do you want - ~60V out?
[23:16:33] <SpeedEvil> What's the cap voltage
[23:16:50] <furrywolf> 75V
[23:16:57] * SpeedEvil needs to get his arbitrary waveform generator/welder built.
[23:17:05] <SpeedEvil> that should be plenty
[23:17:18] <furrywolf> more like 54v
[23:17:30] <furrywolf> (40 * sqrt(2) - 1.4)
[23:18:04] <furrywolf> I wouldn't mind a few more volts, but that's the closest I found used cheap on ebay.
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[23:23:23] <SpeedEvil> Don't forget *1.1 (or 1.2) because the transformer is unloaded, *1.05 for tollerance of the transformer worst case, *1.1 for high line voltage
[23:23:42] <SpeedEvil> *1.41 for sqrt(2)
[23:23:57] <SpeedEvil> Oh - you said htat
[23:25:44] <furrywolf> I'm still trying to decide if I should bother with a bleeder resistor.
[23:26:55] <SpeedEvil> you have most of 100J in that cap.
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[23:27:11] <SpeedEvil> That's quite enough to move axes, if things go wrong
[23:27:17] <furrywolf> based on my quick tests, the drivers do a good job bleeding down on their own.
[23:27:18] <SpeedEvil> unexpectedly
[23:27:43] <furrywolf> with my benchtop supply with reasonably sized output caps, only a couple seconds down to below shutdown voltage.
[23:28:06] <SpeedEvil> If you've got a double pole master power on/off switch, that would work fine too
[23:28:21] <furrywolf> I have a single pole AC power switch.
[23:29:33] <SpeedEvil> A very obvious 'danger' LED then
[23:32:21] <furrywolf> yes, it has a few of those.
[23:32:51] <furrywolf> the biggest of which being the "you turned the spindle on but the computer has it turned off" led, reminding you it could start without you doing anything.
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[23:36:56] <zeeshan> if i change the current limit of my servos
[23:36:58] <zeeshan> will that change tuning?
[23:37:26] <zeeshan> velocity loop perhaps? :)
[23:38:11] <furrywolf> if you're driving it to full power, yes
[23:41:07] <zeeshan> okay
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[23:47:01] <furrywolf> "Ailing electronics retailer RadioShack is teetering ever closer to insolvency, reports claim, with a potential bankruptcy filing to come as soon as next month." meh
[23:47:13] <malcom2073> I'd love to care
[23:47:14] <malcom2073> I really would
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[23:48:16] <furrywolf> their closing would mean I have to order just about everything online
[23:48:46] <furrywolf> whoops, need six resistors, only have five? put the project on the shelf for a week.
[23:50:04] <malcom2073> True, I'll miss paying $1 for a single resistor
[23:50:17] <malcom2073> but then again, there is a *real* electronics shop 30 minutes away from me so that helps.
[23:50:44] <furrywolf> yeah, you're probably not in the middle of nowhere.
[23:51:25] <malcom2073> Middle of nowhere east-coast style, not middle of nowhere west coast style heh
[23:51:25] <furrywolf> there's only one electronics store near here, and they suck... prices comparable to radioshack or worse, closed more than they're open, unfriendly staff, not a lot of useful parts at all.
[23:51:42] <furrywolf> I can get resistors there, and that's about it.
[23:51:55] -!- LeelooMinai [LeelooMinai!~leeloo@184-175-46-197.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:51:57] <malcom2073> Ah that sucks
[23:52:05] <malcom2073> yeah this place is expensive, but sometimes worth it
[23:53:09] <furrywolf> and they keep banker's hours, so you're screwed if you have a job, unless you want to take your lunch break there.
[23:57:42] <PCW> zeeshan: you should not hit the drives peak current limit (you will get an immediate following error)
[23:58:31] <furrywolf> it also annoys me because radioshack was finally heading back in the right direction... one of the local stores started stocking an arduino display with interesting gadgets, and another local one was installing a 3d printer and electronics workbench... these things are good for getting people interested in electronics and manufacturing.
[23:58:53] <PCW> (BTW you should set your ferror limits to something reasonable once an axis is tuned)
[23:59:25] <PCW> ferrors are a safety feature...