#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-13

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[00:01:35] <malcom2073> yum
[00:03:21] -!- The_Ball [The_Ball!~ballen@202.10.92.134] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:03:48] <_methods> jymmbalaya?
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[00:15:46] <furrywolf> you have a fiance that can build things? *jealous*
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[00:25:26] <furrywolf> bbl, errands
[00:28:58] <XXCoder> yay home
[00:29:05] <XXCoder> working while still sick SUCKS
[00:29:14] <XXCoder> I can add gross stuff after "sucks"
[00:29:27] <XXCoder> lots
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[01:06:29] <Jymmm> _methods: Yes Sir?
[01:07:05] <_methods> jt was going to make some jymmbalaya
[01:11:04] <Jymmm> _methods: damn misery canibals!
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[01:44:31] <_methods> heheh
[01:47:41] <PetefromTn_> whats so funny?
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[01:54:26] <_methods> jymm
[01:54:41] <_methods> hehe
[01:54:43] <Jymmm> _methods: Yas Ma'am?
[01:54:48] <_methods> jymmmbalaya
[01:55:03] <Jymmm> Good Stuff!
[01:55:06] <Jymmm> EAT ME
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[02:03:00] <_methods> damn we ran pete off
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[02:35:57] <malcom2073> Man just doesn't know how to handle a good jymmmbalaya
[02:37:30] <XXCoder> jy mmmm
[02:39:37] <zeeshan> man i have a little bit of wiring left
[02:39:50] <zeeshan> anyone who wires HEIDENHAIN gas scales before
[02:39:59] <zeeshan> glass scales. holy cow theyre a PAIN
[02:40:26] <zeeshan> just the 3 scales and its ready to be powered up
[02:41:17] <zeeshan> http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8682/16242463226_90f574cd37_h.jpg http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7480/16082519967_8e2e4ad967_h.jpg http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7471/16081023790_ea7e9061b0_h.jpg
[02:41:21] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: HEIDENHAIN "gas" scales? Are you measuring pressure or flow rate?
[02:41:30] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: typo
[02:41:35] <CaptHindsight> :)
[02:41:39] <zeeshan> i stopped caring about my wiring
[02:42:08] <malcom2073> Damn heh
[02:42:10] <malcom2073> lotta stuff
[02:42:16] <CaptHindsight> you can clean it up after it's all working
[02:42:51] <zeeshan> i think the only thing i dont like so far without firing this thing up
[02:42:57] <zeeshan> is there a 3 AWG wire running right next to my modbus wires.
[02:42:59] <malcom2073> Then spend another two days getting it working after the cleanup :)
[02:43:04] <zeeshan> haha malcom2073
[02:43:09] <zeeshan> if it works, it can stay messy!
[02:43:19] <zeeshan> the main place its a messis at the +24vdc distribution block
[02:43:22] <zeeshan> -24vdc
[02:43:36] <CaptHindsight> what motherboard is that?
[02:43:44] <zeeshan> asus k7v400
[02:44:06] <zeeshan> er
[02:44:09] <zeeshan> a7v400mx
[02:44:40] <zeeshan> i stopped using it because the ethernet port died on it
[02:44:46] * zeeshan is using wireless
[02:44:57] <zeeshan> i might replace it wit hthat celeron one pcw posted if it gives me issues inthe future
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[02:50:05] <zeeshan> its quiet here tonight
[02:50:22] <zeeshan> np jt!
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[03:14:30] <Sairon> oi
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[04:01:17] <RyanS> anyone know a bit about propane burners? i built this http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/Mingzhus/venturi_zpsb4108e8f.jpg test fired it. the flame is huge. not sure what effect various shape nozzles have
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[04:03:38] * furrywolf is still waiting for it to load. hasn't even started the image yet.
[04:04:24] <furrywolf> I hate photobucket.
[04:05:51] <Rab> furrywolf, you might like this browser extension: https://github.com/Owyn/HandyImage
[04:06:13] <furrywolf> yay, after five minutes of loading javascript and bloat, five seconds to download a simple lineart image.
[04:06:14] <furrywolf> I hate photobucket.
[04:06:14] <Rab> I don't see any PB/Flickr/etc garbage any more, it just displays the image at full res.
[04:06:45] <furrywolf> rab: or I can just stick to my rule of ignoring everyone who pastes links to those services.
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[04:07:48] <furrywolf> ryans: so you're asking how to make it focused, like a torch? I think they have cylindrical rather than tapered designs...
[04:08:02] <furrywolf> or maybe even tapering the other direction
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[04:10:24] <RyanS> well its for a forge and it seems pretty much any shape would work ok, but idk
[04:10:50] <furrywolf> then a huge flame sounds just fine. :)
[04:11:05] <SpeedEvil> RyanS: are you mixing air with it ?
[04:11:17] <SpeedEvil> RyanS: or is it just a massive propane nozzle
[04:11:24] <furrywolf> yes, it's a venturi design.
[04:11:42] <furrywolf> doesn't mean he has the orifice size, pressure, etc right, of course...
[04:11:51] <SpeedEvil> Orifice size is important.
[04:12:12] <furrywolf> tell me about it! some toys are too small, some too large...
[04:12:40] <RyanS> i just copied these dimensions http://www.duncanshearer.co.nz/kilnplans/burners/venturi/venturi%20burner-01.jpg
[04:13:11] <RyanS> orrifice is an 0.8mm mig tip
[04:13:16] <SpeedEvil> Does the flame properly retain at the flame retention hole?
[04:13:32] <SpeedEvil> I need to make my boosted propane burner.
[04:13:35] <furrywolf> is it a nice blue flame with yellow tips, or a big orange flame?
[04:13:51] <SpeedEvil> With a ~1000C or so electric pre-heater
[04:14:13] <furrywolf> why electric? heh
[04:14:34] <RyanS> ive only tested with no nozzle but the flames blue
[04:15:03] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: gas in principle would work too - but then you need to seperate out the flows and have a heat exchanger
[04:15:17] <SpeedEvil> What do you mea by 'with no nozzle'
[04:15:41] <furrywolf> use a regenerative design... you pass the incoming mixture around the outside of the flame.
[04:15:52] <furrywolf> the simplest is a coiled copper tube the flame aims through
[04:16:39] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: copper may have obvious issues
[04:16:55] <furrywolf> I've seen copper, but stainless might be better if you're going for really hot.
[04:17:11] <RyanS> hmm it doesn't have a flame retention nozzle right now
[04:17:15] <SpeedEvil> For a small - ~8kW or so burner - electric seems easier
[04:17:44] <SpeedEvil> RyanS: you need it - the flame retention device acts as an orifice to make the output gas go lots faster
[04:18:49] <furrywolf> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa124/rangerssteamtoys/IMG_1012.jpg like that, but less kludgey. :P
[04:18:53] <RyanS> this design perhaps? http://www.selas.com/product?id=76
[04:19:48] <SpeedEvil> RyanS: your design had one already
[04:19:49] <SpeedEvil> just make ti
[04:19:51] <SpeedEvil> it
[04:22:54] <RyanS> this nozzle seems ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qtCkIf8TZhU#t=47
[04:24:42] <RyanS> brb
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[04:24:58] <furrywolf> http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/showthread.php?2468-Newbie-with-a-moya-burner that looks... safe
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[04:29:01] <furrywolf> fun, at least. :P
[04:31:13] <unfy> bought aluminum to make gantry, re-looked at the auto band saw cutter thing here at work.... yeah, i'll be cutting things by hand
[04:31:26] * unfy is always amazed at how this building can fuck up tools ._.
[04:32:01] <XXCoder> fun
[04:32:06] <furrywolf> lol
[04:32:16] * furrywolf somehow doubts it's the building fucking up the tools
[04:32:45] <unfy> heh
[04:33:08] <unfy> i did once take a bunch of pics and pasted them online once, but realized that such things may cause problems so i deleted them
[04:33:12] <unfy> many folks weeped with me
[04:33:24] <RyanS> mines unnecessarily over-engineered. ill post a pic of it burning in a min
[04:34:49] <furrywolf> there's no kill like overkill.
[04:35:10] <[cube]> i'll be building one of those pretty soon
[04:35:15] <[cube]> for a little forge
[04:35:36] <RyanS> i looove over engineers
[04:35:47] <RyanS> engineering
[04:35:55] <[cube]> going to have a hook up for forced air from compressor, with regulator
[04:35:58] <[cube]> just for added boost
[04:36:02] <[cube]> mostly when getting it up to temp
[04:36:56] <RyanS> hmm i dont think forced air is nescessary
[04:38:17] <[cube]> it definitely isnt :)
[04:38:26] <[cube]> but i just think it'll be fun to build it in
[04:38:45] <[cube]> i'll probably go a different route than aboe
[04:38:48] <RyanS> why not i say
[04:38:59] <[cube]> and have a separate inlet for the air
[04:39:18] <[cube]> maybe spiral it up the forge column
[04:39:33] <[cube]> to enhance that cyclonish effect
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[04:41:15] <RyanS> i don't even know what to do with a forge, I just thought it was a cool thing to build
[04:41:28] <RyanS> or hot :p
[04:42:59] <[cube]> hehe
[04:43:07] <[cube]> i plan tot just cast aluminum parts
[04:43:11] <[cube]> and clean up on mill
[04:43:20] <[cube]> maybe try some copper
[04:43:32] <furrywolf> I'd like to try casting someday, but I have way more projects than time or money.
[04:43:37] <[cube]> got all the materials, just need a weekend to set asaide
[04:43:51] <[cube]> hard in winter
[04:44:02] <furrywolf> you can cast copper with no furnace... just make copper thermite. :P
[04:44:36] <[cube]> lol
[04:46:24] <RyanS> http://picpaste.com/pics/venturi_burner-OJg5dQvk.1421124345.JPG
[04:48:07] <furrywolf> shiny
[04:48:17] <RyanS> http://picpaste.com/pics/venturi_burner2-fi7Rqeo5.1421124474.JPG
[04:49:22] <furrywolf> turn up your input pressure. :)
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[04:50:06] <RyanS> yeah i think thats 15psi
[04:52:17] <RyanS> do you think centre hole area needs the angle? that'd be a pain to machine http://www.selas.com/product?id=76
[04:52:26] <Computer_Barf> what are you going to use the propane burner for?
[04:52:43] <RyanS> forge
[04:53:20] <Computer_Barf> I always have too many projects but
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[04:53:31] <Computer_Barf> i would like to build a multi fuel burner
[04:53:50] <Computer_Barf> and a large aluminum tilft furnace
[04:54:18] <RyanS> its bored in two parts and welded
[04:54:27] <Computer_Barf> and then a plastic pyrolysis / catalytic cracking unit for distilling kerosene from plastic
[04:56:13] <Computer_Barf> so basically waste polyethelene , polyproplene could be used as a feedstock to produce a fuel source for melting aluminum , cast iron, copper alloys.
[04:56:32] <SpeedEvil> Computer_Barf: too much hastle IMO - stripping out the PVC 100% reliably
[04:56:55] <furrywolf> pvc burns just fine?
[04:57:16] <Computer_Barf> you could build a venturi scrubber with a reaction chamber to deal with chlorine
[04:57:19] <SpeedEvil> Yes, and creates really nasty stuff in the output
[04:57:37] <RyanS> big nozzle for short bushy flame?
[04:57:58] <Computer_Barf> furrywolf: yeah incomplete combustion would produce dioxin , and pvc will always create a bunch of chlorine
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[04:58:48] <Computer_Barf> but you can bond the chlorine to something to capture it, but you would want to make sure you are doing really complete combustion
[04:59:35] <Computer_Barf> I think for post consumer food containers you could avoid pvc
[05:00:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ijacsr.com/IJACSR_Vol.%201,%20NO.%202,%20March%202013/Production%20of%20Aromatic%20Hydrocarbons%20%20Related%20Kerosene%20Fuel%20from%20Polystyrene%20and%20Polypropylene%20Waste%20%20Plastics%20Mixture%20using%20Fractional%20Distillation%20Process.pdf
[05:00:50] <Computer_Barf> SpeedEvil: you were thinking dioxins? or chlorine?
[05:01:18] <SpeedEvil> yes
[05:01:23] <SpeedEvil> chlorine is an irritant
[05:01:33] <Computer_Barf> capture it.
[05:01:40] <SpeedEvil> dioxins very much aren't
[05:01:51] <Computer_Barf> well its irritating to get cancer
[05:01:58] <Computer_Barf> flol
[05:02:33] <CaptHindsight> "In this process polypropylene and polystyrene waste plastic to kerosene production percentage was only 17% "
[05:02:41] <furrywolf> don't you just need to get the dioxins hotter?
[05:03:03] <Computer_Barf> poystyrene would mostly create waxes
[05:03:17] <Computer_Barf> you would have to crack it alot with polystyrene
[05:03:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ijmer.com/papers/Vol2_Issue4/BJ2421682173.pdf
[05:03:45] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: yes - in principle it's doable - the problem is that to actually reliably stop production of nasties, you need process control and involved stuff
[05:03:53] <furrywolf> I remember an article a couple years back about some company that managed to tweak the process to get a high percentage from electric arc pyrolysis..
[05:04:02] <CaptHindsight> Conventional Fuel Generated from Polypropylene (PP) Waste Plastic like Kerosene/Jet/ Aviation Grade with Activated Carbon
[05:04:05] <Computer_Barf> plus just by nature polystyrene is usually a foam.
[05:04:13] <SpeedEvil> Computer_Barf: err - no
[05:04:20] <SpeedEvil> polystyrene is an ordinary polymer
[05:04:23] <Computer_Barf> i mean why bother with polystyrene when you can get hdpe waste by the ton fairly cheap
[05:04:31] <SpeedEvil> it's just it's commonly used in a expanded form
[05:04:55] <CaptHindsight> "production yield percentage are third fraction liquid fuel or aviation/kerosene/jet category fuel yield is
[05:04:55] <CaptHindsight> 30.40%, other fraction fuel percentage was 62.60% light gas 3% and black carbon residue 4%."
[05:05:10] <Sairon> eh, process control
[05:05:14] <Sairon> who cares
[05:05:14] <SpeedEvil> Or actual barrels of crude - $50
[05:05:26] <Computer_Barf> CaptHindsight: its a matter of cracking ,
[05:05:46] <SpeedEvil> Arc pyrolysis is interesting
[05:05:51] <Sairon> fracking cracking
[05:05:55] <Sairon> it's all the same
[05:06:07] <Computer_Barf> its.. actually quite diffrent.
[05:06:13] <Sairon> lol
[05:06:39] <[cube]> just printed a little spindle 'wrench' for my mill
[05:06:40] <[cube]> http://i.imgur.com/AM4TKWZ.jpg
[05:06:44] <[cube]> works great hehe
[05:07:06] * furrywolf prefers wrenches to be metal, preferably drop forged
[05:07:07] <Computer_Barf> cube what mill
[05:07:13] <[cube]> milling machine
[05:07:22] <Computer_Barf> i mean.. what kind
[05:07:27] <[cube]> oh
[05:07:31] <[cube]> its a chinese noname
[05:07:38] <[cube]> somethign you'd find at harbor freight
[05:07:43] <[cube]> but mine's a candian brand
[05:07:46] <Computer_Barf> X2?
[05:07:49] <[cube]> *Canadian
[05:08:04] <[cube]> no its a round column...
[05:08:06] <[cube]> cheaper one
[05:08:07] <Computer_Barf> g0704 here
[05:08:10] <[cube]> lemme find pic
[05:08:58] <Computer_Barf> SpeedEvil: what was the err no in response to?
[05:09:46] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
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[05:09:58] <Computer_Barf> Capthindsight: you can find a surprising number of people online who've built their own cracking machines
[05:10:34] <[cube]> Computer_Barf: http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00YvJtrMeCgEiu/Drilling-and-Milling-Machine-ZAY7032G-ZAY7040G-ZAY7045G-.jpg
[05:10:36] <[cube]> similar to that
[05:10:48] <Computer_Barf> whoever it was with the propane burner, it looks nice, did you turn it on a lathe?
[05:11:03] <CaptHindsight> unfortunately (or fortunately) I'm not looking for any :)
[05:13:25] <RyanS> Computer_Barf in two sections and then welded togther
[05:14:32] <Computer_Barf> add a wvo/kerosene addition to it.
[05:14:40] <Sairon> hmm
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[05:14:49] <Sairon> why would people have their own cracking machines?
[05:15:05] <XXCoder> cracking machines?
[05:15:09] <Computer_Barf> They have access to waste plastic
[05:15:17] <Computer_Barf> and want free fuel
[05:15:22] <Sairon> oh. ok
[05:15:34] <XXCoder> ah plastic to fuel
[05:15:49] <Sairon> seems wastefull somehow
[05:16:05] <Computer_Barf> to break it back down into the oil it was made from
[05:16:13] <XXCoder> if person goes to dump and grabs em?
[05:16:15] <XXCoder> dunno
[05:16:35] <Computer_Barf> wasteful compared to sealing it in a hermetic landfill ?
[05:17:03] <Computer_Barf> shit some day we'll be mining it anways.
[05:17:20] <XXCoder> yeah once we got perfect recycler
[05:17:28] <XXCoder> or even mass to energy conversion
[05:17:42] <XXCoder> once we also has other way, its perfect anything to anything machine
[05:17:44] <Computer_Barf> well I am talking about a mass to energy conversion.
[05:18:06] <Sairon> we briefly attempted to use recovered plastics
[05:18:10] <Sairon> in a product
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[05:19:21] <Computer_Barf> yeah, it seems more realistic to break plastic back down, crack it into ethylene and propene , and then synthesize the plastic over again. Waste plastic can only be recycled so much before the contaminants start wasting batches
[05:19:49] <XXCoder> barf or just don't bother since scientists has direct method to turn algae to oil
[05:19:52] <XXCoder> crude oil even
[05:20:02] <XXCoder> but still havent fgured mass scale
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[05:20:40] <Computer_Barf> scientists also have a way to make carbon nanotubes and buckyballs but commercial viability is an entirely diffrent animal
[05:20:57] <Sairon> oh, don't i know that
[05:21:06] <Computer_Barf> Im suggesting small scale, distrubuted reactors for waste plastic energy recovery
[05:21:06] <Sairon> my life for the past five years
[05:21:14] <Sairon> has been moving something from the lab
[05:21:19] <Sairon> to commercially viable
[05:21:23] <Sairon> nightmares
[05:22:07] <Computer_Barf> don't get me wrong, I've got a small filament extruder I've built for my 3d printer, its just recycled feedstocks are limited by practical useability
[05:22:50] <Sairon> hmm
[05:22:58] <Sairon> filament extruder hard to make?
[05:23:22] <Computer_Barf> I probably spent about 200 hours on it
[05:23:37] <Computer_Barf> my biggest limitations was my ability to work metal efficiently
[05:23:44] <Sairon> oh
[05:23:53] <Sairon> i do ok with metal
[05:24:06] <Sairon> and i've got 600 lbs of polypropylene injection molding stock
[05:24:07] <Computer_Barf> I wanted to be able to make a bunch of them , which ment that the way I made the first one wasn't going to happen
[05:24:09] <Sairon> in my basement
[05:24:31] <Sairon> maybe i should be making filament
[05:25:10] <Computer_Barf> I mean, there was stainless steel parts , flanges, nozzel, etc. I got myself a mill and am cncing it
[05:25:47] <Computer_Barf> I'll need to get a lathe or add a 4th axis too
[05:25:48] <Sairon> heat at the nozzel
[05:25:57] <Sairon> or is it heat all through the feed barrel?
[05:26:20] <Computer_Barf> no if you feed the entire feed barrel I't will likely jam
[05:26:28] <Computer_Barf> well , depends on the motor
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[05:26:52] <SpeedEvil> Computer_Barf: 'by nature polystyrene is usually a foam' - it's not
[05:26:54] <Sairon> i mean
[05:26:59] <Sairon> where does it get heated?
[05:27:04] <SpeedEvil> It's just a normal polymer - if a bit shitty in its properties.
[05:27:13] <SpeedEvil> So its most common use is as a foam
[05:27:14] <Computer_Barf> its small scale so its not really oriented around how you would normally do injection moulding
[05:27:25] <Sairon> ok
[05:27:29] <Computer_Barf> sairon: it has a heat block right before the nozzel
[05:27:35] <Computer_Barf> here let me see if I have some stuff on this computer
[05:28:13] <Computer_Barf> http://i.imgur.com/dsCR538.png
[05:28:40] <Computer_Barf> that was an early design, much stuff got added for the pulling / cooling / spooling
[05:29:19] <Computer_Barf> http://i.imgur.com/zSEuJDb.png
[05:29:33] <Computer_Barf> that was a bit later but that water bath failed
[05:30:05] <Sairon> so you have to keep that hopper going hardcore
[05:31:40] <Computer_Barf> well my goal is to have something less hefty than russ's filament extruder, but around same performance. You can do a 2.2 kg spool in about 30 something minutes
[05:31:47] <Computer_Barf> so its not THAT fast
[05:32:07] <Computer_Barf> but its not like many of the other ones you see out there where your running all day for a few spools
[05:33:13] <Computer_Barf> what I want next is to build a small hammer mill
[05:33:47] <Computer_Barf> something big enough to load a 2 liter pet bottle into
[05:34:23] <Sairon> oh, hmm
[05:34:34] <Sairon> no one uses PP in 3d printing?
[05:34:55] <Computer_Barf> yes and no
[05:35:10] <Computer_Barf> ive not found ppl selling spools of it
[05:35:35] <Computer_Barf> but ive seen a larger style than normal extruder extruding it in a thick bead to make a large vase
[05:36:02] <Computer_Barf> and I know that the laywood product is a mixture of sawdust in the proper mesh size, mixed with PP
[05:36:39] <Computer_Barf> Locally I've got my hands on abs pellets , and polycarbonate pellets
[05:37:00] <[cube]> what's the best media to work with holding oil?
[05:37:12] <[cube]> for example way oil
[05:37:14] <Computer_Barf> and ive chopped up PET and printed with it , but doing all that work is a pain in the ass, hence the hammer mill idea
[05:37:21] <[cube]> i figured nylon would be ideal
[05:37:57] <Computer_Barf> cube are you asking this in context to what we were talking about or just in general?
[05:38:05] <[cube]> i recently tried printing an 'oil distribution' part out of PLA
[05:38:13] <[cube]> it worked fine...
[05:38:21] <[cube]> but theoild eventual seeped right through
[05:38:31] <Computer_Barf> through the layers?
[05:38:33] <[cube]> yeah
[05:38:36] <[cube]> the integrity of the part is still fine
[05:38:51] <[cube]> just strange to see the oil totally infiltrate and seep throught he pla
[05:39:04] <Computer_Barf> well , pla will melt in the presence of DCM , but its nasty stuff
[05:39:12] <Computer_Barf> diachloromethane
[05:39:35] <Computer_Barf> or chloroform
[05:39:41] <[cube]> any recommendation for anoother plastic to work with?
[05:39:57] <[cube]> a spool of nylon 645 will cost me $50 shipped :x
[05:40:16] <[cube]> i've also got ABS...which i haven't tried yet
[05:40:35] <Computer_Barf> im not sure , i dont know how abs is affected by oil , but ABS can be made water tight with misting, or a misting chamber with acetone
[05:40:49] <[cube]> yeah i can see that
[05:41:13] <Computer_Barf> i mean oil is usually stored in hdpe but its shit for printing
[05:41:23] <[cube]> ever thoguth of making your own PVA dissolvable support filament?
[05:41:47] <Computer_Barf> it shrinks at least 1 percent , so it pops off the bed or warps badly
[05:42:07] <[cube]> hmm
[05:42:22] <[cube]> could desing that into the part and add a thick base layer?
[05:42:31] <Computer_Barf> no ive not considered it, do you suppose pva is available in powder or pellets?
[05:42:35] <[cube]> just asking because it's crazy expensive
[05:42:59] <[cube]> not sure, all I know is its available in liquid jugs
[05:43:08] <[cube]> and that wood glue is mostly pva (i think)
[05:43:15] <Computer_Barf> do you have a mill or router or anything like that
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[05:43:32] <[cube]> nothing CNC (yet)
[05:43:39] <Computer_Barf> you could try 3d milling your part
[05:43:41] <[cube]> just manual mill, manual lathe, and 3d printer
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[05:44:25] <[cube]> i wonder if you could mix sawdust and wood glue
[05:44:28] <[cube]> and extrude that
[05:44:32] <[cube]> that would dissolve nicely
[05:45:12] <Computer_Barf> I save the polyproplene containers from our household waste, and use a pid'd kiln outside to melt them into an oiled aluminum tray into a big block
[05:45:40] <Computer_Barf> ive not yet milled it but i have a nice stack of polyproplene blocks ready for when i get my mill cnc'd
[05:45:58] <[cube]> for practice or parts?
[05:47:10] <Computer_Barf> I saw a guy on youtube that was melting down his skeletans from previously cutt polyproplene, and he melted them back into blocks , and then milling them into parts. I wasn't able see the surface quality clearly in his videos but
[05:47:19] <Computer_Barf> Im curious to try myself when I can
[05:47:25] <Computer_Barf> so basically I was just prepping that
[05:47:46] <[cube]> ah
[05:48:25] <Computer_Barf> when i found out that laywood filament is just polyproplene + fine mesh sawdust , I also had it occur to me that it would be interesting to try to make sawdust/plastic blocks to mill
[05:49:32] <Computer_Barf> the thing is , I only have one extruder and making some of the parts were major pain of the ass without a mill/lathe , so I'm hesitant about pumping just anything into my nozzel
[05:49:36] <XXCoder> his skel melted down
[05:49:40] <XXCoder> sounds painful lol
[05:49:41] <[cube]> let me know if you ever get to extruding your own laywood
[05:49:51] <[cube]> would be very cool to see that
[05:50:06] <Computer_Barf> skeleton plastic remnants
[05:50:26] <Computer_Barf> don't know how else to describe it. cnc leftovers
[05:50:55] <Computer_Barf> jesus christ , i like the auto play feature they added to youtube, but not when i've lost the tab
[05:51:10] <XXCoder> lol ok
[05:51:18] <XXCoder> probabloy structural support stuff
[05:51:27] <CaptHindsight> are the FDM printers that print directly from pellets getting popular with filament fetish crowd?
[05:52:00] <[cube]> there's one commerical one out there
[05:52:07] <[cube]> that sells for aobut 100k
[05:52:31] <XXCoder> theres also unprinters
[05:52:32] <Computer_Barf> I saw one recently that looked interesting but
[05:52:40] <[cube]> parts it makes (from a variety of plastic stock) are supposed to be 80% the strutural integrity of an injection molded part
[05:52:42] <CaptHindsight> abs, pla and many thermoplastics are <$4/lb in pellet form
[05:52:48] <Computer_Barf> I didn't see it actually printing, just extrusion tests
[05:53:09] <XXCoder> http://deltaprinter.co.za/filamentextruder/index.html
[05:53:09] <[cube]> http://www.arburg.com/en/products-and-services/additive-manufacturing/akf-process/
[05:53:23] <Computer_Barf> $4/lb is still the ripoff rate. You want to talk someone into selling you half a ton.
[05:53:33] <XXCoder> another version http://www.filastruder.com/
[05:53:40] <Computer_Barf> but .. still half a ton is alot
[05:53:44] <CaptHindsight> $1-2/Lb
[05:53:58] <[cube]> i think those are all based on the lyman design
[05:54:02] <CaptHindsight> but for hobbyist quantity ~$/lb
[05:54:13] <CaptHindsight> ~$4/lb
[05:54:13] <XXCoder> 2 lb * 2000
[05:54:16] <Computer_Barf> you can get a 1000lbs of polycarbonate pellets for about a dollar a lb
[05:54:21] <XXCoder> = $4,000
[05:54:27] <Computer_Barf> well 90 something cents per
[05:54:29] <XXCoder> but damn you will never run out of em
[05:54:42] <XXCoder> expecially if you make some unprinter
[05:55:40] <Computer_Barf> I like to go to plastic distrubuters, tell them about my project and convince them to let me buy a few dozen kilograms for testing. It doesn't always work.
[05:56:26] <Computer_Barf> they are understandably used to high volume clients
[05:56:51] <CaptHindsight> heh, well most fdm printer "start-ups" are full of doodoo
[05:57:03] <CaptHindsight> same for SLA
[05:57:26] <Computer_Barf> so what success I've had is mostly ppl humoring me and finding it somewhat entertaining that i've built a tiny filment producing injection machine
[05:59:38] <XXCoder> when you finally buy that one ton bulk, swim in it first lol
[05:59:52] <Computer_Barf> LOL
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[06:00:13] <Computer_Barf> I was thinking of making a giant bean bag
[06:00:23] <Computer_Barf> or multiple ones , filling them with the pellets
[06:01:35] <Computer_Barf> idk if I said it but
[06:01:52] <Computer_Barf> pet prints pretty well , its just a pain to break down bottles
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[06:02:49] <Computer_Barf> on a personal basis it seems realistic that if I could get around turning it into a powder , then I could casually print alot of stuff essentially free
[06:03:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Item-6521-Extruder-Plastic-Welex-2-50mm-Plastic-24-1-/281338578010
[06:03:54] <Computer_Barf> 50 mm barrel you might as well mill some plastic moulds and start manufacturing
[06:04:39] <Computer_Barf> although they usually use steel, aluminum moulds can still produce thousands of parts
[06:04:50] <Computer_Barf> probably tens of thousands
[06:04:53] <XXCoder> lol yeah bit overkill there
[06:05:01] <XXCoder> did you see my links?
[06:05:26] <Computer_Barf> which ones?
[06:05:37] <XXCoder> http://deltaprinter.co.za/filamentextruder/index.html
[06:05:41] <XXCoder> another version http://www.filastruder.com/
[06:05:58] <Computer_Barf> oh yeah i looked at that when i was researching my design
[06:06:52] <[cube]> the one that russ made...
[06:06:52] <Computer_Barf> the filastuder operates at a really slow pace though
[06:06:56] <[cube]> is that a solid design?
[06:07:06] <[cube]> i saw a video of him testing it once
[06:07:08] <Computer_Barf> well it was essentially a junk build and
[06:07:17] <Computer_Barf> he built it with like
[06:07:21] <[cube]> was spitting out filament super fast
[06:07:25] <Computer_Barf> huge steel plates and
[06:07:26] <[cube]> but the tolerances were all off
[06:07:34] <Computer_Barf> yeah he got it better later
[06:07:39] <[cube]> cool
[06:08:02] <Computer_Barf> he prints fairly routinely with his now but for god sakes he needs to correct his retraction
[06:08:23] <Computer_Barf> ive been watching him print stringy stuff for like a year now
[06:08:34] <Computer_Barf> its not his filament
[06:08:45] <Computer_Barf> its just he hasn't caliberated his delta
[06:09:03] <Computer_Barf> i mean thats a common problem with deltas but its not like this impossible thing to fix
[06:09:05] <XXCoder> filastruder is $300 but then you would evenually save enogh money
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[06:09:45] <Computer_Barf> the filastruder though like.. you might as well build a layman
[06:10:09] <Computer_Barf> laymans design is better for a slow one
[06:10:16] <XXCoder> 309.99 with all options
[06:10:20] <XXCoder> as well as go all way
[06:10:43] <Computer_Barf> i wouldn't trust to just buy an extruder without a puller
[06:10:48] <[cube]> then you need some kind of device to pull and wind
[06:11:10] <XXCoder> http://www.filastruder.com/collections/spare-parts/products/filawinder
[06:11:14] <XXCoder> 160
[06:11:16] <Computer_Barf> if your concerned about having consistent tolerances , you need a puller at minimum
[06:11:47] <[cube]> that price actually isnt bad...
[06:12:01] <[cube]> oh
[06:12:01] <Computer_Barf> the puller on my machine actually measures the filament, and speeds up and slows down on a pid loop accordingly
[06:12:02] <[cube]> nvm
[06:12:07] <[cube]> i thought it said $59.99
[06:12:07] <[cube]> :x
[06:12:17] <XXCoder> its if you make your own parts
[06:12:33] <XXCoder> and if you has functional 3dprinter its better optiion
[06:12:52] <[cube]> i bet theres multiple versions on intructables/thingiverse
[06:13:15] <Computer_Barf> I don't personally believe that there are any commercial small scale machines that would satisfy me
[06:13:22] <XXCoder> I bet cube
[06:13:49] <XXCoder> well night
[06:13:55] <[cube]> night
[06:13:58] <Computer_Barf> http://i.imgur.com/euYNny3.jpg
[06:14:10] <Computer_Barf> took this when I got done printing the hopper
[06:14:29] <Computer_Barf> took fucking 4 days to print it, in 5 parts that bolt together.
[06:14:41] <[cube]> hah
[06:14:43] <[cube]> looks nice
[06:14:53] <Computer_Barf> i would like to eventually mill it out of aluminum
[06:14:54] <[cube]> whats teh diameter of the widest part?
[06:15:17] <[cube]> do you have a lathe?
[06:15:19] <Computer_Barf> the auger tube is .75" if that helps with scale
[06:15:25] <Computer_Barf> no
[06:15:30] <[cube]> you could cast the printed part in aluminum
[06:15:36] <[cube]> then clean up on a lathe
[06:15:50] <[cube]> probably have to revise the part's design to be lathe friendly
[06:15:56] <Computer_Barf> well thats not a perfect cone , it has some funky geometry
[06:16:05] <[cube]> yeah
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[06:16:26] <Computer_Barf> my g0704, I intend to add a 4th axis
[06:16:36] <Computer_Barf> or maybe get a lathe idk
[06:16:44] <[cube]> its funny...all my solidworks parts have 'geometric edges' on round profiles generated inside the program
[06:17:00] <[cube]> but when i for example import an illustrator-generated dwg/dex, the circles are much rounder
[06:17:02] <Computer_Barf> or maybe turn the head sideways on the mill and put a toolpost on the bed for some things
[06:17:11] <[cube]> *dxf
[06:18:54] <Computer_Barf> yeah those geometrics "low res" style for the hopper was me adapting a rectangle at the bottom to a circle on the top. I drew it in sketchup. I know what your talking about, but in this case it was somewhat intentional. I am interested in figuring out how I will get smooth stuff on the mill in cad/cam
[06:19:29] <[cube]> yeah
[06:19:43] <[cube]> apparently you really need to measure and accoutn for your backlash
[06:19:43] <Computer_Barf> http://i.imgur.com/syT9N8s.png
[06:19:50] <[cube]> if youre doing a mill conversion
[06:19:58] <[cube]> specifically for round passes
[06:20:16] <[cube]> otherwise you could break something
[06:20:35] <[cube]> nto sure if im going to cnc my mill
[06:20:45] <Computer_Barf> here was the start of the heatblock. I don't have pictures of everything but that was the start of the head
[06:20:46] <[cube]> heating block?
[06:20:51] <[cube]> nice
[06:20:59] <Computer_Barf> I had to do the stainless flanges and aluminum block with a file
[06:21:05] <Computer_Barf> A FILE!
[06:21:10] <[cube]> lol...
[06:21:26] <[cube]> crazy
[06:21:46] <Computer_Barf> yeah. I wish i had a picture of the nozzel
[06:21:56] <[cube]> i'm using an airbrush nozzle
[06:21:58] <[cube]> on my printer
[06:22:07] <[cube]> to get a 0.3mm extrusion
[06:22:19] <Computer_Barf> at one point I put a bolt though the nozzel and stuck it on my drill press and used the file on it to make the nozzel cone.
[06:22:27] <[cube]> i've got a 0.2 that i havent bothered to try yet
[06:22:33] <[cube]> i dont need anything that precise
[06:22:42] <[cube]> ha
[06:23:37] <Computer_Barf> yeah If I ever want to make any quantity of these machines I will seriously need a mill and a lathe cause that whole ordeal was hell
[06:23:53] <[cube]> why would you make many?
[06:24:00] <[cube]> to sell or to just make more filament?
[06:24:06] <Computer_Barf> stainless steel when you drill big holes in plate it work hardens if you don't keep it cool
[06:24:10] <Computer_Barf> so thats great.
[06:24:48] <[cube]> yeah
[06:24:58] <Computer_Barf> well I mean, idk. the amount of money i put into making mine suggested I was going to really need to do some good sourcing to make my design commercially
[06:25:00] <[cube]> i know first hand whats its like 'machining' metal withoutthe proper tools
[06:25:09] <Computer_Barf> idk if selling them will be profitable
[06:25:30] <Sairon> probably not
[06:25:40] <Sairon> likely have to be completely re-engineered
[06:25:51] <[cube]> the hot end mount for my printer is a joke :P
[06:25:54] <[cube]> but works great!
[06:26:07] <[cube]> put some file time and elbow grease into that
[06:26:22] <Computer_Barf> I do know I want multiple assemblies of the main shaft , nozzels , filter assemblies, flanges just so im not experementing with only one
[06:26:37] <Computer_Barf> i mean, like you suggested pva
[06:26:59] <Computer_Barf> but when i switch plastics i basically need to extrude a bit to get it to clear
[06:27:16] <Computer_Barf> which is fine going from abs to polycarbonate
[06:27:22] <Computer_Barf> or polycarbonate to pet
[06:27:47] <Computer_Barf> but I want to have multiples to switch out so I can try random shit
[06:28:22] <Computer_Barf> you suggested non-thermo extrusion , glue and sawdust
[06:28:41] <[cube]> yeah
[06:28:47] <[cube]> not sure where to start with that
[06:28:56] <[cube]> all I know is laywood is too expensive for me to even consider buying
[06:29:06] <Computer_Barf> yeah
[06:29:17] <[cube]> i could, but i'd feel stupid
[06:29:23] <Computer_Barf> i would like to try to make it on my own but
[06:30:28] <Computer_Barf> ill need a hammer mill, a mesh filtering system of some sort , and additional hotend assemblies for the filament extruder. some experements will proabably end up with having to fully clean out the barrel
[06:30:51] <Computer_Barf> maybe I could heat it red hot with that guys propane torch to clean it out
[06:31:13] <Computer_Barf> but still probably would have to get the carbon out
[06:32:06] <Computer_Barf> im just anticipating that messing around with particulates or stuff that dries like glue will probably involve multiple failures along the way
[06:32:46] <[cube]> no doubt
[06:32:57] <[cube]> the makers of laywood claim its a 'big secret'
[06:33:26] <Computer_Barf> yeah the msds says polyproplene , wood fibers
[06:33:42] <[cube]> yeah its probably like 15% wood
[06:33:56] <Computer_Barf> I think its more than that
[06:34:01] <Computer_Barf> but i ultimately don't know
[06:34:18] <Computer_Barf> im certain it has to be broken down very small
[06:34:35] <[cube]> diy dissolvable would be a better find
[06:34:40] <Computer_Barf> im sure there is oppertunity to try all sorts of other powders
[06:34:44] <[cube]> could do some really cool/complex stuff with that
[06:35:02] <Computer_Barf> so many things to try
[06:35:12] <[cube]> i guess you could use abs as your support then bathe it in acetone, but that sounds messy
[06:35:43] <[cube]> and you're probably changing the properties of your principal plastic
[06:35:50] <Computer_Barf> yes
[06:35:58] <Computer_Barf> abs turns into something else
[06:36:11] <[cube]> PLA turns rubbery
[06:36:23] <[cube]> and weakens it
[06:36:27] <[cube]> but doesnt dissolve
[06:36:49] <Computer_Barf> I dont have time for it but
[06:37:32] <Computer_Barf> it would be awsome if someone rewrote slic3r so that you could use an injector
[06:37:41] <Computer_Barf> to do a honeycomb infill and then
[06:37:58] <Computer_Barf> fill the honeycomb voids with a mek free epoxy
[06:38:14] <[cube]> you could do that with slic3r now
[06:38:39] <[cube]> take a syringe and control the feed with stepper/threaded rod?
[06:39:00] <Computer_Barf> i dont know how you could pinpoint the center of all the honeycombs
[06:39:07] <[cube]> the nozzzle could be remotely fed
[06:39:26] <[cube]> andjust a small tube/nozzle laying down the epoxy
[06:39:38] <Computer_Barf> you would have to insert something that would stop the print before the top several layers that close it in, and have it fill the empty honeycombs, before then printing over it.
[06:39:56] <Computer_Barf> yes im not saying the epoxy injection would be the problem
[06:39:59] <[cube]> ah yeah
[06:40:01] <Computer_Barf> just knowing where to point the needle
[06:40:04] <[cube]> ok, sorry was thinkging of something else
[06:40:31] <[cube]> that's actually not a bad idea...
[06:40:42] <[cube]> hit 'pause' and fill them in yourself :P
[06:40:44] <Computer_Barf> i dont just mean epoxy, any sort of hardening liquid infill
[06:40:48] <Computer_Barf> lol
[06:40:49] <[cube]> wait a few hours and resume
[06:41:10] <[cube]> im totally serious :P
[06:41:14] <Computer_Barf> or I could go back to building things with a file
[06:41:15] <Computer_Barf> lol
[06:41:38] <[cube]> i'd only do that for like 1 massive cavity
[06:41:51] <[cube]> i wouldnt sit there start stopping all day lol
[06:42:01] <Computer_Barf> it just seems if youcould go in that direction , you could significantly speed up print speeds and end up with objects that are more solid.
[06:42:14] <[cube]> yeah
[06:42:17] <Computer_Barf> well i mean
[06:42:27] <[cube]> bet you could do it with some minro code changes to marlin
[06:42:30] <[cube]> *minor
[06:42:49] <[cube]> people have modified marlin/sprinter to control laser cutters
[06:43:15] <Computer_Barf> add in stuff like carbon fibers embeded in the plastic you are extruding, add some sort of epoxy..
[06:43:23] <Computer_Barf> and bam you've printed a stealth fighter.
[06:43:38] <[cube]> 1:32 lol
[06:43:51] <Sairon> wonder how you get powders
[06:43:58] <Sairon> for metal injection molding
[06:44:22] <Computer_Barf> you mean plastics with powdered metal in it?
[06:44:54] <Computer_Barf> like the brass one?
[06:46:08] <Sairon> sure
[06:46:11] <Computer_Barf> http://www.fabbaloo.com/blog/2014/12/21/first-copper-and-bronze-theres-now-brass-3d-printer-filament
[06:46:16] <Sairon> plastics with powdered metal...
[06:46:28] <Sairon> i was really thinking of just powdered metal
[06:46:31] <Sairon> but i'll take that
[06:46:38] <Computer_Barf> oh you mean like for sintering
[06:46:50] <Sairon> yeah
[06:46:53] <Sairon> exactly
[06:47:09] <Computer_Barf> their is powdered metal on the market used for a variety of things
[06:47:19] <Computer_Barf> in diffrent mesh sizes
[06:47:29] <Computer_Barf> I presume alot of it is made in ball mills
[06:47:57] <Computer_Barf> you can like, for instance get zinc powder, or iron powder
[06:48:17] <Computer_Barf> but i dont know what they use for sintering applications specifically
[06:48:29] <Computer_Barf> i looked at the requirements for 3d metal printing and it was insane
[06:48:41] <Computer_Barf> some of those machines actually have to be kept under vacuum
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[06:49:35] <Sairon> i bet
[06:49:47] <Computer_Barf> ill put that firmly in the too hard to start category
[06:49:48] <ds3> I don't see why a syringe type extruder + metal clay can't be used
[06:50:25] <Computer_Barf> well yeah like a paste yes but it won't retain the properties of the metal alone
[06:51:07] <Computer_Barf> or do you mean to heat it to fuse the metals
[06:51:07] <[cube]> wonder if you could extrude a clay like substance like metal weld and then bake it in akilne to harden
[06:51:21] <ds3> 3D print metal clay then sinter it
[06:51:41] <ds3> non noble metals apparently only need a reducing atmosphere for sintering
[06:51:56] <[cube]> sintering prints still need to be infused with a brass powder and melted in i think
[06:52:21] <[cube]> to retain any kind of strength
[06:52:46] <Computer_Barf> I've seen machines that essentially tig weld with metal rod fed from a spool, then go back and mill the surface
[06:53:11] <ds3> at least for jewery, it seems to work fine as is
[06:53:17] <Computer_Barf> i have no idea how the metal + clay would sinter
[06:53:23] <Computer_Barf> i mean it might crack
[06:53:27] <ds3> not metal + clay
[06:53:29] <ds3> metal clay
[06:53:38] <[cube]> i've seen that machine!
[06:53:48] <[cube]> i've been looking for that video ever since...
[06:53:51] <[cube]> know what its called?
[06:53:56] <Sairon> metal + plastic
[06:53:59] <[cube]> the machine was making liek a valve for a ship or something
[06:54:01] <ds3> metal clay is powder metal + organic binder + water to create a clay like consistancy
[06:54:02] <Sairon> or metal + wax
[06:54:25] <Sairon> 3d print
[06:54:28] <[cube]> weld/extruded the metal then cleaned up on a 5+ axis mill
[06:54:30] <Computer_Barf> cube: damn its probably buried in a pile of links somewhere
[06:54:39] <Sairon> sinter in microwave
[06:54:49] <[cube]> i was blown away by that thing
[06:54:55] <Computer_Barf> freaking lazers
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[06:56:13] <Computer_Barf> search hybrid addative and subtractive machine on youtube
[06:56:24] <Computer_Barf> *additive
[06:56:47] <The_Ball> Computer_Barf, yeah it's amazing
[06:57:18] <Computer_Barf> cube, its manufactured by a company called DMG
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[06:58:05] <[cube]> okay, thanks
[06:58:06] <[cube]> will look
[06:58:18] <Sairon> heh
[06:58:26] <Sairon> now it's mori-seiki-dmg
[06:58:33] <[cube]> foudn it!
[06:58:34] <[cube]> :D
[06:58:35] <[cube]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA
[06:58:39] <Computer_Barf> laser metal deposition
[06:58:40] <Sairon> fuckers
[06:58:44] <Sairon> good idea, too
[06:59:22] <Computer_Barf> how is the metal diposition, uh dipositionated?
[06:59:35] <Computer_Barf> i thought it was a tig but I guess its a laser
[07:00:03] <Computer_Barf> i don't really see where the new material is coming from
[07:00:20] <Computer_Barf> probably sorcery
[07:00:21] <[cube]> i've seena similar machine
[07:00:29] <[cube]> that shows how the stock is fed
[07:00:42] <[cube]> they were making a car exhaust in one piece i think
[07:02:39] <[cube]> looked just like welding rods
[07:03:07] <Computer_Barf> god I wish I could just have a few weeks to print on a machine like that
[07:03:35] <Computer_Barf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qt5ui3P9QA
[07:03:40] <Computer_Barf> holy crapy this guy is insane
[07:04:10] <Computer_Barf> god that looks like death or at least a head injury
[07:04:20] <[cube]> lol...
[07:04:31] <[cube]> reminds me of those guys who turn tree stumps
[07:04:54] <[cube]> saw one guy bolt a stump to his wheel bearings
[07:05:53] <[cube]> very cool how he's cot the pattern there
[07:05:56] <[cube]> *got
[07:06:27] <Computer_Barf> yeah. I've seen some interesting devises like that lately
[07:08:29] <Computer_Barf> there is a guy on youtube who makes wood bowls and he uses some crazy contraption to cut out shapes from the bowls and then cut the same shapes from boards to create matching inserts. its like a multidirectional lever seesaw that follows a pattern on one side, with a router on the other side. made of 80/20 extrusoin
[07:09:01] <Computer_Barf> but god the start of that video I thought I was about to watch an accident
[07:09:02] <[cube]> neat
[07:09:19] <[cube]> must be a really beefy router
[07:10:30] <Computer_Barf> you know, I bet he could automate that whole process with two steppes so he could leave the room
[07:11:01] <Computer_Barf> you know, if the bannister market really starts kicking in gear.
[07:11:39] <[cube]> lol no doubt
[07:11:58] <[cube]> poker tables come back into fashion
[07:12:38] <Computer_Barf> Batman needs his mansion stairway redone
[07:12:57] <[cube]> haha
[07:13:00] <[cube]> he did too...
[07:13:04] <[cube]> when it burned down
[07:13:07] <Computer_Barf> lol
[07:13:12] <Computer_Barf> or arrow
[07:13:29] <Computer_Barf> well i think he had to move out of that house
[07:14:08] <Computer_Barf> Ahh yes, i do wood working, but only for billionares..
[07:14:42] <[cube]> hehe
[07:17:29] <Computer_Barf> I have a theory.
[07:17:43] <Computer_Barf> Ned Stark is secretly a skywalker.
[07:17:54] <Computer_Barf> Nailed it.
[07:20:05] <[cube]> and a 00 agent
[07:20:29] <[cube]> and a tetra grammaton cleric
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[07:34:55] <Computer_Barf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9Ukt7y23wc
[07:35:02] <Computer_Barf> when i watch this guys videos
[07:35:48] <Computer_Barf> i keep on thinking
[07:35:51] <Computer_Barf> http://zombiesruineverything.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/aph_6.jpg
[07:35:55] <[cube]> this guy's chromakey skills need some work lol
[07:36:11] <[cube]> haha
[07:36:17] <[cube]> dana carvey
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[15:01:50] <JT-Shop> zeeshan, the nut is off of the coil wire on the starter solenoid!
[15:02:08] <JT-Shop> now to find a way to get my hand in there and replace it
[15:02:24] <Sairon> get someone with a smaller hand
[15:02:31] <Sairon> that's what i usually do
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[15:06:57] <SpeedEvil> Or chop off some extra fingers.
[15:11:22] <Sairon> oh, true
[15:11:32] <Sairon> that'd make the hand fit in smaller places
[15:11:55] <malcom2073> Play with heavy machines, it'll happen eventually on its own
[15:12:13] <PetefromTn_> Oh shit don't say that man..LOL
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[15:13:21] <Sairon> i'm a decade in
[15:13:29] <Sairon> and i still have all my digitis
[15:14:14] <malcom2073> I took a chunk out of my finger checking out a mill, before I even bought it! :/
[15:14:25] <Sairon> maybe i should quit soon
[15:14:38] <_methods> better to bleed a little bit every day than bleed a lot all at once
[15:15:16] <malcom2073> true
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[15:33:03] <Sairon> bleed!
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[15:53:13] <zeeshan-laptop> CaptHindsight: are you there
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[16:09:44] <JT-Shop> wrong guess, the solenoid is the 4 terminal type
[16:10:10] <mozmck> JT-Shop: is your plasma table a dual motor gantry?
[16:10:39] <JT-Shop> shaft drive
[16:11:32] <mozmck> I see. avoids the dual motor problems.
[16:11:48] <mozmck> does that work well for you?
[16:11:52] <JT-Shop> yes, makes life much easier\
[16:12:02] <malcom2073> JT-Shop: What do you mean shaft drive?
[16:12:11] <malcom2073> Shaft between the two sides?
[16:12:27] <JT-Shop> yes, the clue was to use a thin wall tube to span the distance
[16:12:49] <malcom2073> Ah cool
[16:14:19] <JT-Shop> solid rod would torque up
[16:14:36] <mozmck> you mean twist?
[16:14:43] <JT-Shop> yea
[16:14:52] <mozmck> is the tube the same diameter as the solid shaft was?
[16:15:29] <JT-Shop> no, the tube is 1" in diameter and I don't recall the shaft size exactly but something like 3/8"
[16:15:50] <mozmck> I see. I bet a solid shaft 1" would have done fine too ;)
[16:15:57] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: sort of
[16:16:10] <mozmck> might have added a bit of un-wanted weight though!
[16:16:14] <zeeshan-laptop> JT-Shop: did you fix your van?
[16:16:24] <JT-Shop> yes, but I was trying to keep the moving weight of the gantry down
[16:16:55] <mozmck> Yep, acceleration is important for plasma, and you don't wanter a 20hp motor on the gantry!!!
[16:16:55] <JT-Shop> no, I got it jacked up and it's a 4 wire solenoid so I was looking at the unused terminal
[16:17:14] <malcom2073> I really like that idea, was looking at different options to drive my gantry
[16:17:16] <mozmck> wanter??? want i mean
[16:17:21] <malcom2073> JT-Shop: Is the motor on one side, or in the middle of the gantry?
[16:17:24] <pcw_home> ISTR that torsional stiffness goes up with the 4th power of diameter so the stuff in the middle is just dead weight
[16:17:55] <zeeshan-laptop> istr? :P
[16:18:21] <JT-Shop> malcom2073, http://gnipsel.com/shop/machine-shop.xhtml
[16:18:44] <malcom2073> ooohhh machine porn. Thanks JT-Shop I'll look that over :)
[16:18:46] <pcw_home> I seem to recall
[16:19:14] <zeeshan-laptop> ou hav
[16:20:06] <zeeshan-laptop> are you talking about polar moment of area
[16:20:10] <zeeshan-laptop> J? :P
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[16:20:39] <zeeshan-laptop> i need to kill an hour before a seminar
[16:20:49] <zeeshan-laptop> i wish i was home :/ id finish up the glass scale wiring
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[16:37:06] <zeeshan-laptop> im taking bets
[16:37:13] <zeeshan-laptop> when i power up the cnc mill controller for the first time
[16:37:20] <zeeshan-laptop> who thinks there will be an explosion
[16:37:25] <SpeedEvil> It gains sentience, and kills us all.
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[16:38:42] <zeeshan-laptop> im going to be so pissed off if i blow up the 7i77
[16:38:55] <zeeshan-laptop> i triple checked polarities , jumpers
[16:40:17] <zeeshan-laptop> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7471/16081023790_45f09fc8a3.jpg
[16:40:25] <zeeshan-laptop> anyone see anything wrong!
[16:40:48] <zeeshan-laptop> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7480/16082519967_4b00ab7e34_b.jpg
[16:41:04] <zeeshan-laptop> i did single point the servo motor case grounds at a diff location than my ground bar
[16:41:26] <zeeshan-laptop> got lazy
[16:42:35] <CaptHindsight> have you tested each motor controller/driver with motor separately yet?
[16:42:41] <zeeshan-laptop> yes before hand
[16:42:53] <zeeshan-laptop> only thing i did not test is the z - brake
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[16:43:03] <zeeshan-laptop> im prety sure its like bobo said. its a solenoid driven brake
[16:43:28] <CaptHindsight> I'll often bring up all the low power stuff first, then start adding drives one by one
[16:43:36] <zeeshan-laptop> there are 5 leads coming from the motor harness, 1 is earth, measuring ohms between two wires i get like 1.2 ohms which should be my coil
[16:43:45] <zeeshan-laptop> and other 2 wires gives 28 ohms which should be solenoid
[16:44:30] <zeeshan-laptop> okay ill remove the fuses for the servo drives
[16:44:32] <zeeshan-laptop> and bring em up one by one
[16:44:53] <zeeshan-laptop> i should first get communication working with 7i77 and test sensors
[16:45:11] <zeeshan-laptop> then vfds, then servos
[16:45:21] <JT-Shop> well crap the van fixed itself... I really don't like that
[16:45:29] <zeeshan-laptop> JT-Shop: haha
[16:45:45] <zeeshan-laptop> maybe the starter gear was mis aligned?
[16:45:50] <zeeshan-laptop> needed to hammer it
[16:46:03] <malcom2073> Or the solenoid stuck?
[16:46:09] <zeeshan-laptop> yea
[16:46:16] <malcom2073> I had one where the solenoid stuck off, and Ihad to hit it with a wrench to get it to start
[16:46:45] <CaptHindsight> starter solenoid replacement is one of the things I do with any new (used) car
[16:47:26] <CaptHindsight> same with brushes on the alternator
[16:48:51] <PetefromTn_> seriously? you change the brushes?
[16:49:24] <CaptHindsight> yeah, tends to be the only thing that kills them besides the regulator
[16:49:24] <archivist> I only change brushes when the fail
[16:49:27] <malcom2073> heh
[16:49:43] <PetefromTn_> I only change the whole damn alternator...
[16:49:53] <malcom2073> I don't know that I've ever changed brushes, then again the only alternators I've had fail were in old chevys, and they're like $20 for a ne wone
[16:49:58] <PetefromTn_> and only then when it pukes...
[16:50:08] <CaptHindsight> I do preventative maintenance, the brushes usually cost ~$5
[16:51:06] <_methods> heh i just had to change my alternator the brushes were good
[16:51:33] <_methods> i didnt check to see if the voltage regulator was out i just replaced
[16:51:43] <CaptHindsight> the regulators usually sell for more than the cost of a whole new alternator
[16:52:04] <_methods> cleaned the armature and checked the brushes
[16:52:12] <archivist> often the brush ring dies at the same age as the brushes
[16:52:14] <_methods> i think one of the owindings was shorted
[16:52:51] <_methods> took it in for core charge and they tested it and it was whining horrible
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[16:53:36] <_methods> only 100k on the car too
[16:53:42] <_methods> i'll never buy a toyota again
[16:53:55] <archivist> toymota
[16:53:59] <_methods> got 2 of them and they're both junk
[16:54:07] <PetefromTn_> my wife's trooper was runnning like it had a miss the other day. Swapped in new plugs and cleaned up the TB etc etc. Then it STILL had a miss. Swapped the coil pack plug all in one unit from the number 2 to the number four position and put dielectric grease on the boots and now it runs perfectly.. Kind of a PIA TO diagnose tho....
[16:54:54] <_methods> wtf is that about?
[16:55:07] <PetefromTn_> if it were not for the code telling me cylinder 2 had a misfire I would have chased tail for awhile because the plugs looked okay altho old..
[16:55:16] <_methods> why would the coil pack work on one but not the other
[16:55:58] <PetefromTn_> no idea but it COULD be that the dielectric grease and repositioning caused it to STOP an arcin'g boot or something.. I hate stuff that is not cut and dry
[16:56:00] <zeeshan-laptop> maybe crack in boot
[16:56:15] <zeeshan-laptop> causing intermittent spark jumping
[16:56:18] <CaptHindsight> it might have been poor connections that were fixed by the swapping, juggling, cleaning etc
[16:56:19] <PetefromTn_> yup possibly
[16:56:45] <CaptHindsight> I have one now by Mr. Nissan that doesn't like aftermarket coils
[16:56:45] <archivist> look at it in the dark to see tracking
[16:56:47] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is a possibility too but honestly the connections are pretty solid push click type..
[16:57:02] <PetefromTn_> I did that actually..
[16:57:08] <PetefromTn_> did not see anything obvious
[16:57:09] <CaptHindsight> runs fine but the resistance of the coils are out of spec
[16:57:56] <CaptHindsight> complaints and a class action suit got them to drop that code from the ECU
[16:57:58] <PetefromTn_> frackin' coil packs are very expensive so I was happy it fixed it by just swapping around.
[16:58:46] <CaptHindsight> Nissan wants $700 a set, aftermarket are only $100
[16:59:06] <PetefromTn_> for one or all?
[16:59:13] <CaptHindsight> $100 for all 6
[16:59:14] <zeeshan-laptop> f oem
[16:59:19] <zeeshan-laptop> they dont even build their own parts anymore
[16:59:19] <PetefromTn_> jeez thats cheap
[16:59:32] <PetefromTn_> the trooper ones are $90.00 each
[16:59:35] <zeeshan-laptop> they just buy from a manufacturer and up the cost by 10x
[16:59:42] <CaptHindsight> yup
[16:59:56] <zeeshan-laptop> the worst is when they use a fancy bolt
[16:59:59] <zeeshan-laptop> that you cant find anywhere
[17:00:05] <CaptHindsight> I usually buy oem for my landcruiser
[17:00:11] <zeeshan-laptop> m11 torx head
[17:00:11] <zeeshan-laptop> lol
[17:00:19] <_methods> man i want this screwdriver set so bad but if my wife finds out how much it costs she'll probably stab me in my sleep
[17:00:22] <zeeshan-laptop> internal torx
[17:00:24] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wiha-92092-50-Piece-ESD-Safe-Master-Technicians-Precision-Screwdriver-Tool-Set-/151291710901
[17:00:29] <zeeshan-laptop> rofl methods
[17:00:37] <zeeshan-laptop> wow those are expensive
[17:00:41] <CaptHindsight> it will outlast me or gas under $6/gal
[17:00:50] <_methods> i love wiha
[17:00:55] <_methods> they make great tools
[17:00:58] <PetefromTn_> I like Kleins...
[17:01:13] <zeeshan-laptop> i like old kleins
[17:01:18] <zeeshan-laptop> the new stuff feels cheap
[17:01:28] <zeeshan-laptop> some of it
[17:01:43] <PetefromTn_> I have some I got years ago I keep in a safe place LOL
[17:01:51] <CaptHindsight> I just put an alligator clip/jumper from the shafts to ground
[17:01:52] <PetefromTn_> used to use them in my old job
[17:01:58] <zeeshan-laptop> nice
[17:02:03] <CaptHindsight> makes just about any ESD safe
[17:03:35] <PetefromTn_> Oh look the scorpion king episode 18 is on redbox LOL
[17:04:47] <_methods> the non esd ones are only $10 cheaper
[17:05:01] <_methods> $7
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[17:21:04] <robin_sz> eveny
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[17:34:24] <robin_sz> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Haas-VF2-3-axis-CNC-mill-with-toolchanger-/261733563510?
[17:34:32] <robin_sz> go on ... you know you want it
[17:35:38] <malcom2073> I'm thinking of trying to design an auto-tool changer for an ISO30 power drawbar. It won't work with every endmill holder, but I can make it work with most of the ones I have I think, terrible idea?
[17:36:07] <archivist> want!=afford
[17:37:43] <jthornton> archivist, neat and simple new burner design http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/showthread.php?10200-New-burner-design
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[17:42:14] <archivist> what a dangerous place for the lathe motor switch
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[17:42:55] <jthornton> you noticed that too
[17:45:54] <malcom2073> Is it possible to do an auto-changer with a power drawbar that is a screw (NMTB30/ISO30 type)? Or is there risk of cross threading the bar?
[17:46:28] <cradek> certainly better to use knobs, but there are many designs for homemade screwing power drawbars
[17:46:39] <SpeedEvil> As a zeroth level asnwer - you can easily monitor torque
[17:46:44] <malcom2073> This machine has a screwing power drawbar already
[17:47:09] <cradek> people have been duct-taping air wrenches to their bridgeport heads since the beginning of time
[17:47:16] <malcom2073> heh
[17:47:37] <malcom2073> I mean a factory installed screw power drawbar
[17:47:41] <malcom2073> atl east, it seems to be so
[17:48:16] <malcom2073> Is the screw kind still called a power drawbar?
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[17:51:55] <tjtr33> power drawbars negate basic rite of passage. when apprentice forgets wrench on drawbar and turns on spindle :)
[17:51:56] <tjtr33> a sound you remember forever
[17:52:14] <malcom2073> Haha
[17:52:16] <malcom2073> I'll bet
[17:52:30] <robin_sz> does it have tool in, clamps open and clamps fully closed sensing?
[17:53:35] jvrousseau is now known as zz_jvrousseau
[17:53:38] <robin_sz> and if not, does it have a full enclosure with minimum 6mm Lexan windows?
[17:53:44] <malcom2073> Huh?
[17:53:55] <tjtr33> you an sense closing with pressure drops and levels, a missing or cocked tool can leak, a solid clamp will raise back pressure over a give short period of time ( few mS)
[17:54:19] <[cube]> i 3d printed a wrench for my spindle yesterday
[17:54:20] <[cube]> http://i.imgur.com/AM4TKWZ.jpg
[17:54:40] <[cube]> works well, really strong
[17:54:47] <robin_sz> malcom2073, basically, if it doenst have proper tool sensing, you need an enclosure
[17:55:10] <[cube]> doesnt scratch up the spindle and lets you tighten the drawbar with enough torque
[17:55:23] <robin_sz> malcom2073, as when it half-engages a tool, you won't want to be catching it in your teeth when the spindle spins up ...
[17:55:50] <PetefromTn_> thats quite a visual mental image..
[17:55:55] <malcom2073> Heh indeed, though with a power drawbar like that, it either engauges, or crossthreads, and that's my worry
[17:55:59] <robin_sz> malcom2073, if you've never seen a ISO40 toolholder leave a spindle at 12,000 rpm and embed itself in the workshop wall ...
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[17:56:39] <robin_sz> 6mm lexan (polycarbonate) will stop it
[17:56:41] <malcom2073> I'll look to see if I can pressurize the column to test for a solid tool seat, but how do I prevent cross threading?
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[17:56:48] <robin_sz> or 2mm steel
[17:56:56] <mrsun> hmm i wonder if 10GB/s will be enough to transfer my gcode to the cnc computer...
[17:57:07] <jthornton> is cross threading a problem now?
[17:57:13] <malcom2073> jthornton: I don't know
[17:57:14] <malcom2073> I'm asking
[17:57:17] <robin_sz> mrsun, depends
[17:57:22] <PetefromTn_> andypugh made a neat knob type PDB puller for his mill conversion...
[17:57:34] <archivist> its all inline how can you get cross threading
[17:57:50] <malcom2073> archivist: not sure, I've not stuck a tool up there yet to see how straight it is when it engauges :P
[17:57:53] <malcom2073> http://mikesshop.net/mill/image014.jpg
[17:58:41] <malcom2073> <- not a machinest, I'm in WAY over my head :)
[17:58:44] <robin_sz> just buy my haas :)
[17:59:36] <malcom2073> robin_sz: I paid less than 5% of your haas price for this :-P
[17:59:48] <R2E4> Hi all
[17:59:57] <robin_sz> thats fair
[18:00:01] <robin_sz> bridgeport?
[18:00:13] <R2E4> ANyone fabricate z zero probe?
[18:00:13] <malcom2073> Clausing/Kondia
[18:00:31] <robin_sz> oh, american junk
[18:00:35] <malcom2073> knee mill though
[18:00:36] <robin_sz> ;)
[18:00:44] <malcom2073> Spanish junk :)
[18:00:47] <robin_sz> heh
[18:01:04] <robin_sz> R2E4: I did a pushbutton one once
[18:01:17] <robin_sz> used a stanless steel bell-push
[18:01:20] <robin_sz> on a router
[18:01:51] <R2E4> I need one I can place on top of stock to set my Z zero. I dont have tool changer working and tool offset, tool table , setup.
[18:02:06] <robin_sz> the other way is a steel block with a piece of PCB material
[18:02:39] <R2E4> I have phenolic
[18:02:42] <robin_sz> when the tool touches the copper, circuit completes, ta da. lots of wood router do this, eg Multicam
[18:03:08] <robin_sz> you need a piece of PCB material, coper one side, insulator under
[18:03:26] <R2E4> yeah but i want a spring action type. My machine's Z would crush it....lol
[18:03:35] <PetefromTn_> R2E4 I have design started for a table mounted tool probe it is dead simple but should work...I have already got the materials here but just have not gotten around to making it yet.
[18:03:43] <robin_sz> wut?
[18:04:13] <R2E4> Pete, ah cool. I was just checking out the probes people are working on also.
[18:04:35] <robin_sz> R2EF: no, it approaches it slowly and stops the instant contact is made ... Multicam use this on all their CNCs, the block is usually un-marked even after years of use
[18:05:02] <PetefromTn_> the tricky bit is getting it to work very clean and reliable switch open and closing without debounce
[18:05:22] <robin_sz> you can use a mechnical one, but they are not very accurate,
[18:05:38] <robin_sz> unless you have linear up/down motion
[18:06:28] <R2E4> was thnking tube in a tube with spring under it and prox sensor sideways.
[18:06:40] <robin_sz> prox sensor?
[18:06:41] <robin_sz> no
[18:06:53] <robin_sz> repeatability is poor
[18:06:54] <R2E4> use delrin on sides to keep from wobbling inside tube.
[18:06:58] <PetefromTn_> I actually started with a piece of ground rod and a linear bearing atop a custom base..
[18:07:18] <robin_sz> yeah, it has to be linear motion
[18:07:20] <PetefromTn_> this keeps things very vertical and allows smooth movement
[18:07:23] <R2E4> robin_sz: oh yeah? thats bad
[18:07:24] <robin_sz> yes
[18:07:36] <robin_sz> best is electrical pad
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[18:07:51] <robin_sz> or a Rennishaw ;)
[18:07:57] <R2E4> PetefromTn_: tell me more. pics?
[18:07:59] <PetefromTn_> the plan is to use an isolated contact pad attached to the base of the ground rod and touching something setup in the base.
[18:08:37] <PetefromTn_> renishaw is the top dog but also very expensive... especially the table probing.. it is capable of length and diameter probing.
[18:10:54] <R2E4> inputs on the 7i77 fast enough?
[18:12:08] <PetefromTn_> standby..
[18:14:01] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/oNPGqn1.jpg that is as far as I have gotten...
[18:16:07] <R2E4> thats going to go in a housing? contacts on the bottom so when it goes down and touch it, you get input. no?
[18:16:08] <PetefromTn_> basically the rod needs to have a mushroom press fit cap made from delrin or something to keep the debris and coolant out of the socket as much as possible. the rod is spring loaded upwards and there are two contact rings one on the bottom of the rod and the other inside the base supported atop some sort of isolation
[18:16:09] <R2E4> Thats cool
[18:16:36] <PetefromTn_> actually the contacts need to be UP it needs to be closed until the tool touches it..
[18:17:15] <R2E4> ok, that would be the ground to trigger?
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[18:17:51] <R2E4> of course, that type of design works. you going to use that as tool offset?
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[18:19:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah well actually right now when I touch off tools I make the machine go to G59.3 which I setup at the back right corner of the table. Then I load the tool, and bring it down to the table on top of a 123 block
[18:19:22] <PetefromTn_> then I touch off the tool to the tool table
[18:19:35] <PetefromTn_> this would be the same basic thing only I would want to automate it somehow...
[18:21:32] <tjtr33> do it slow, touch, back off, cut speed in half, repeat 3x. then repeat whole process with a small allowable difference tolerance ( or rest assured its too dirty/loose )
[18:22:20] <PetefromTn_> fer sure..
[18:22:30] <PetefromTn_> that is how HAAS does it only they do it twice
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[18:22:57] <PetefromTn_> I think my design should work well if I get some time to build it.
[18:23:04] * Tom_itx smiles: http://theawesomer.com/insane-homebrew-rocket/303503/
[18:23:19] <PetefromTn_> now that I am waiting for my CNC lathe to be retrofit it is going to be awhile before I can machine the parts....
[18:24:13] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, been there, its insane! loads of stupid fun
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[18:24:38] <tjtr33> old stuff was std linear rokets on ramps, these ufos are new
[18:26:42] <R2E4> anyone have backissues of digital machinist? vol6 #4.... lol
[18:27:07] <PetefromTn_> I have some not sure what years but I got them awhile ago...
[18:27:11] <roycroft> i'm sure i do, somewhere
[18:27:20] <roycroft> you can subscribe to the digital edition and get access to back issues
[18:27:29] <PetefromTn_> REALLY?
[18:27:34] <roycroft> yeah
[18:27:34] <PetefromTn_> how much is it?
[18:27:48] <roycroft> i don't recall, but i'm pretty sure it's less than the print edition
[18:28:00] <PetefromTn_> nice gonna have to check that out..
[18:28:00] <roycroft> they do a bundle where you can get both print + digital too
[18:28:05] <R2E4> I'll find out here in a minute
[18:28:20] <PetefromTn_> I kinda like that magazine...
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[18:28:34] <roycroft> iirc they make it really difficult to download the digital versions though
[18:28:40] <PetefromTn_> bought a bunch of them at holstons and whatnot over the years whenever I am in there.
[18:28:42] <roycroft> yeah, i've been getting it since the first issue
[18:28:46] <PetefromTn_> had a subscription for awhile..
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[18:29:01] <roycroft> i just renewed mine last night
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[18:29:12] <PetefromTn_> whats it cost now?
[18:29:23] <roycroft> it was $38 for two years
[18:29:32] <PetefromTn_> not bad really
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[18:29:43] <PetefromTn_> but is it still only bimonthly?
[18:29:52] <roycroft> quarterly
[18:29:58] <roycroft> hsm is bimonthly
[18:30:13] <roycroft> there has been a number of articles about linuxcnc in dm
[18:30:31] <R2E4> the one I am looking for is the one with the D probe.
[18:31:01] <R2E4> by Arnie Minear
[18:32:11] <R2E4> 5.00 electronic version of backorder and 6.50 for the paper version.
[18:32:54] <R2E4> cheaper than the subscription, just backorder once a QUARTER...LOL
[18:35:02] <PetefromTn_> I have one with a probe of some sort.. not sure about D probe... it is a simple spindle probe tho.
[18:35:57] <R2E4> I'm stuck in a surfing vortec.
[18:36:06] <R2E4> about probes
[18:36:20] <robin_sz> Peter: yeah, I have a rennishaw on that haas
[18:36:40] <PetefromTn_> they are nice for sure...
[18:36:47] <PetefromTn_> what are you selling it for?
[18:37:02] <malcom2073> robin_sz: Idon't suppose you know of any information off hand on DIY auto-changer spindle safety stuff?
[18:37:15] <robin_sz> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/piIAAOSwxYxUtVSQ/$_57.JPG
[18:37:20] <malcom2073> Or even terminology to search for
[18:37:49] <PetefromTn_> nice. that looks like the older version
[18:38:24] <robin_sz> malcom2073, ive only played with HSD auto spindles, they have clamp open, clamp closed and empty, clamp closed with something in it
[18:38:26] <R2E4> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=323
[18:38:31] <R2E4> shouldnt be that hard to make
[18:38:59] <malcom2073> robin_sz: You say clamp, are they they gripping ball kind?
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[18:39:25] <robin_sz> malcom2073, the danger is that the ball puller grabs the top of the ball, so its held the tool 3 or 5mm too loow, it spins up, wobbles and lets fly
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[18:39:57] <malcom2073> Yeah, that makes sense
[18:40:11] <robin_sz> Peter: I was just ging to let it go with the mill, i have th 4th axis, will sell that separate
[18:40:13] <malcom2073> I wonder if I just measure current on the drawbar motor, I can tell if a tool is seated
[18:40:40] <robin_sz> no, that will just tell you if the thread has a lump of swarf on it, or the tool is seated
[18:40:55] <R2E4> put a encoder on the drawbar.
[18:41:06] <robin_sz> malcom2073, the big problem in all CNC;s is swarf getting into the tool holders ...
[18:41:28] <malcom2073> R2E4: not a bad idea either, except what if it doesn't engauge in the same thread each time?
[18:41:40] <malcom2073> robin_sz: I assume that's why most of them have the powerful air blasts out the hole?
[18:42:08] <robin_sz> and they usually have the toolholders under some sort of cover
[18:42:14] <malcom2073> right
[18:42:18] <robin_sz> and a door opens at tool change time
[18:42:26] <R2E4> malcom2073: doesnt care, you have to know where it is when the machine starts. just counts.
[18:42:51] <R2E4> yeah your right
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[18:43:14] <robin_sz> right, back to DSP coding ..
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[18:43:28] <malcom2073> yeah I'll have it under cover, and have a door protecting it for sure, I'll have to see if I can blast air down the hole the screw is in
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[18:55:25] <malcom2073> on the other hand, I wonder how much of a hassle it would be, to convert over to a ball and grabber style setup, which would be easier to work in detection with
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[20:05:31] <G0704> hi
[20:05:54] <JT-Shop> low
[20:06:03] <R2E4> mid
[20:06:13] <G0704> I'm finished today the ballscrew installation
[20:06:23] <G0704> and It's work,
[20:06:48] <G0704> the Z axis is very hard to tern.
[20:07:02] <G0704> about 5/Nm
[20:07:29] <G0704> turn*
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[20:10:25] <G0704> There is a problem to work with motor that is't too big?
[20:11:19] <G0704> someone?
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[20:14:33] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you are asking?
[20:16:08] <LeelooMinai> I think the question is if the ballscrew doesn't work smoothly, will the small motor have problems with it.
[20:17:35] <LeelooMinai> 5 N/m sounds a bit scary though, doesn't it?
[20:17:57] <LeelooMinai> It's like hanging 1kg package on 0.5m stick:)
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[20:32:38] <G0704> the torqe meter show 5 N/m on the X axis, if i will take 8 N/m motor it will work.
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[20:34:25] <G0704> now my question is, for the X and Y axis i need about 2 N/m motor, so it's better to go with smaller motor, or to buy 3 motors of 8N/m
[20:35:36] <LeelooMinai> Is there something heavy that ballscrew drives? I may be wrong, but shouldn't the no-load torque be much smaller?
[20:39:12] <G0704> LeelooMinai: the Z axis contain of motor and iron..
[20:40:01] <LeelooMinai> Youwrote it's on X axis too
[20:41:52] <G0704> no, on the X and Y it just 2 N/m
[20:42:11] <LeelooMinai> I see, ok
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[20:42:40] <G0704> i want to know if i need smaller motor for them?
[20:42:47] <G0704> LeelooMinai: ^
[20:42:47] <R2E4> Your Z motor have electromech brake on it?
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[20:43:12] <G0704> R2E4: no
[20:43:40] <G0704> the rails it's dove tails and I've open the gibs.
[20:43:52] <G0704> the machine is G0704
[20:43:59] <R2E4> ah
[20:47:48] <LeelooMinai> How does one measure torque on a ballscrew? With what tool?
[20:47:49] <PetefromTn_> G0704 This machine has been converted by many many folks now I would investigate what they have done and use similar sized motors...
[20:48:48] <G0704> so 3 8 N/m motors? or 1 8N/m and 2 small ones?
[20:49:47] <G0704> PetefromTn_: you know what motors they uses?
[20:50:57] <PetefromTn_> well Connor here has one and he has some steppers on it you would have to ask him the sizes. I saw it working in person and he has made parts with it so I know it works however he has recently torn it down to add ballscrews and MEsanet cards.
[20:52:48] <Connor> 570oz Steppers on all 3 axis, direct drive will work just fine.
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[20:54:36] <Connor> From http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/
[20:54:48] <LeelooMinai> So what are the methods of measuring no-load torque on ballscews?
[20:57:16] <SpeedEvil> put the rod in, balanced fore and aft, spin it, measure spin-down?
[20:57:56] <LeelooMinai> Well, ok, assume that it cannot be done - there's something attached
[20:57:56] <PetefromTn_> in/lb torque wrench?
[20:58:43] <PetefromTn_> assuming the axis is attached to the movement just the ballscrew with nut has almost zero LOL...
[20:58:46] <LeelooMinai> Well, and how would you connect that wrench... it's not like there's some nut on it
[20:59:14] <PetefromTn_> where there is a will there is a way..
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[20:59:53] <G0704> hi again
[21:00:07] <G0704> electricity problem..
[21:00:11] <LeelooMinai> I am more thinking of measuring what torque the whole acis requires to move
[21:00:16] <LeelooMinai> exis*
[21:00:21] <LeelooMinai> axis*:)
[21:00:45] <LeelooMinai> So that is ballscrew with some table on rails
[21:01:04] <LeelooMinai> Cannot really do it with a torque wrench
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[21:03:38] <G0704> It's torque meter not torque wrench
[21:04:20] <G0704> I'ts give you the max force that you use to turn the shaft.
[21:04:26] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_ sugested using a wrench
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[21:05:58] <G0704> http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/torque/torque.htm
[21:06:23] <G0704> it's look similar to this device
[21:06:46] <LeelooMinai> Is it expensive?
[21:07:18] <R2E4> 150 list
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[21:08:12] <LeelooMinai> So maybe the correct name is "torque sensor"?
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[21:10:18] <G0704> it's basically a load cell with fancy display..
[21:11:17] <R2E4> You can buy a G0&04 allready done for 4200 bangers.... http://www.engineeringforless.com/g0704.html
[21:12:33] <R2E4> The Z is f=driven by a 1200oz/in stepper while the x and Y are 425 oz/in
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[21:14:07] <PetefromTn_> hehe
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[21:41:33] <roycroft> so the difference in specs between the 12x36 lathe and the 13x40 that i'm looking at (grizzly) are not great
[21:41:40] <roycroft> except the 13x40 has a foot brake
[21:41:58] <roycroft> i rarely have used the foot brake on a lathe, but my shop instructor was adamant that one should have one
[21:42:02] <roycroft> any thoughts on that?
[21:42:15] <roycroft> is it worth spending an extra $600 for a foot brake?
[21:42:40] <roycroft> the extra swing and distance between centers is nice, but not a big deal to me at all
[21:42:55] <roycroft> and certainly not worth $600 by themselves
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[22:05:12] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:08:17] <G0704> hi again.. hope now it will stay..
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[22:26:44] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: how accurate do you need to measure it
[22:27:05] <LeelooMinai> Was just wondering if ther
[22:27:12] <Tom_itx> bumpy ride on freenode today
[22:27:18] <LeelooMinai> If there's some cheap way of doing it in general
[22:27:31] <zeeshan> yea there is
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[22:27:49] <zeeshan> attach a pulley to your ball screw end, peferrably a sprocket
[22:28:03] <zeeshan> take a string, keep adding weights
[22:28:18] <zeeshan> when the pulley moves, you found your force
[22:28:29] <zeeshan> multiply by radius of the pulley at attachement point and you got torque
[22:28:45] <LeelooMinai> Right, a ghetto way - I know:) I could also use dynamopmeter at the end.
[22:28:50] <zeeshan> well you said cheap
[22:28:53] <zeeshan> thats why i asked.
[22:29:06] <zeeshan> its not ghetto
[22:29:09] <zeeshan> theres many labs that do it
[22:29:23] <zeeshan> you can get it within +/-1 ft-lb with calibrated weights.
[22:29:46] <zeeshan> you have two sources of error yea? distance of pulely and weight
[22:29:51] <zeeshan> and human factor :P
[22:29:54] <LeelooMinai> I thought that maybe there's some tool that is like torque wrench, but instad can be clamped to any round shaft and when you apply force it shows you the reading
[22:29:55] <zeeshan> so i guess 3
[22:30:09] <zeeshan> you can use a torque wrench..
[22:30:12] <zeeshan> indicator style
[22:30:27] <zeeshan> and keep your eye on the indicator and notice the reading asap it moves the ball screw
[22:30:31] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but it has the end that is not really clampable to anything:)
[22:30:33] <zeeshan> but itll be less accurate i'd think
[22:30:33] <Tom_itx> with a slide on it so it will hold the highest reading
[22:30:35] <archivist> there are a number or torque meters on the market
[22:30:38] <zeeshan> and requries a torque wrench
[22:30:45] <zeeshan> keyword was cheap
[22:30:47] <zeeshan> thats why i asked
[22:31:00] <Tom_itx> is there a bird in here?
[22:31:06] <Tom_itx> i keep hearing cheap cheap cheap cheap
[22:31:19] <zeeshan> i was trying to prepare myself to help
[22:31:19] <PetefromTn_> frugal
[22:31:24] <archivist> measure by adding strain gauges
[22:31:25] <zeeshan> cause helping LeelooMinai is like...
[22:31:32] <zeeshan> no comment :P
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[22:32:07] <zeeshan> archivist: have you hooked up bondeded type strain gauges before?
[22:32:10] <Tom_itx> so zeeshan when are you gonna power up your control?
[22:32:20] <Tom_itx> i think you should go before me
[22:32:23] <zeeshan> haha
[22:32:28] <PetefromTn_> light em up!!
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[22:32:31] <zeeshan> want me to blow it up first?
[22:32:31] <zeeshan> :D
[22:32:39] <Tom_itx> i was doing some more rewiring last night
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[22:32:54] <Tom_itx> yeah you can appease the smoke gods for me
[22:33:02] <archivist> zeeshan, no, but the company I worked for made torquemeter electronics for a mechanical company
[22:33:06] <zeeshan> ssi did that for all of us
[22:33:07] * zeeshan hides
[22:33:12] <Tom_itx> haha
[22:33:31] <PetefromTn_> I made my own sacrifices to the smoke gods....
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[22:33:49] <zeeshan> archivist: i have never hooked up a strain gage from scratch before
[22:34:01] <zeeshan> i always wonderd if there was a cheap daq you could hook it up to
[22:34:03] <zeeshan> and get the info on a comp
[22:34:12] <zeeshan> the national instruments ones are $$$$
[22:34:18] <zeeshan> too much for hobby use
[22:34:34] <archivist> the torque meters measured the phase of two spaced gears
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[22:34:49] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: haha
[22:34:55] <zeeshan> did your 7i77 get repaired??
[22:34:57] <zeeshan> i forget
[22:35:36] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i have two options: finish wiring up 8 wires for each glass encoder
[22:35:38] <Tom_itx> well they demanded one smoked board from me
[22:35:39] <zeeshan> will take like 2 hours
[22:35:45] <PetefromTn_> yeah sure did. I have it here now waiting patiently for money to buy the rest of the schtuff necessary for my Lathe retrofit
[22:35:45] <zeeshan> or just run the flex conduit and call it a day
[22:35:53] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: sweet man!
[22:35:55] <Tom_itx> they wanted 2 but i said no you can only have one
[22:36:30] <zeeshan> dude the other day my dad gave me a board from an xray controller
[22:36:32] <zeeshan> and hes like can you fix this?
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[22:36:48] <zeeshan> without saying anything, i passed him my burnt speed controller board
[22:36:51] <zeeshan> he walked away :)
[22:37:09] <zeeshan> microelectronics is confusing
[22:37:31] <Tom_itx> there are a few rules to follow
[22:37:31] <zeeshan> if i touched that xray board, it'd prolly make the xray generator spit out 23902380389023x more radiation
[22:37:50] <archivist> diagnosis makes fault finding easy enough
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[22:38:12] <zeeshan> diagnosis in what sense?
[22:38:21] <zeeshan> probing chip by chip, component by component?
[22:38:49] <archivist> signal path by division
[22:40:59] <archivist> I would regard a power supply as just a big signal that effects all the other related signals when fault finding
[22:41:56] <Jymmm> archivist+++
[22:42:22] <Jymmm> I like that, I really do!
[22:42:43] <_methods> hehe i'm gonna start calling all my power supplies signal generators
[22:43:01] <roycroft> i was about to say affect not effect, but a power supply actually does both
[22:43:09] <Jymmm> Troubleshooting diagonstics steps:
[22:43:26] <Jymmm> Step 1. Did you pay the electric bill?
[22:43:41] <roycroft> step 2. is the magic smoke already gone?
[22:43:42] <zeeshan> lol
[22:44:02] <Jymmm> roycroft: FAIL! Back of the line
[22:44:08] <archivist> before you open the box is the power light on? that checks incoming power cable transformer switch nearly half the psu
[22:44:10] <Jymmm> Step 2. Is it plugged in?
[22:44:56] <archivist> could be a battery device!
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[22:45:14] <malcom2073> Is the power source connected to it?
[22:45:15] <malcom2073> :P
[22:45:31] <Jymmm> archivist: Is the battery plugged in?
[22:45:42] <Jymmm> Step 3: Is it turned ON ?
[22:45:46] <archivist> is there an audible noise when you switch the power
[22:46:12] <Jymmm> Y'all are giving em way too much credit.
[22:46:39] <Jymmm> I can't tell you how many times I've isolatd over the photne that it wasn't plugged in or turned on.
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[22:47:37] <Jymmm> "Has anything changed recently?" "No nothing at all?" 20 minutes later.... "Oh yeah, they moved my desk to another building"
[22:47:43] <archivist> I was a radio and TV engineer, then later fixed electronic kits made by noobs
[22:48:37] <archivist> have a photographic memory of the items you normally repair, the faults jump out at you
[22:48:45] <zeeshan> archivist: youre an expert
[22:48:50] <zeeshan> no wonder its easy to you :P
[22:49:36] <Jymmm> Chassis handles / control guards ss http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90038541/
[22:50:13] <archivist> that last one was a kit I repaired hundreds of, had 240 resistors and 20 quad opamps
[22:51:02] <archivist> some bought ready made so we built them too
[22:51:23] <zeeshan> SMT ?
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[22:53:05] <archivist> nah, this was in the 1970-80s
[22:53:21] <Jymmm> Just curious, does anyone know how to heatsink TO-252's by chance? I have three next to each other, apx 120W total
[22:53:41] <Jymmm> max.
[22:54:27] <_methods> screw em to a chunk of alum
[22:54:46] <LeelooMinai> You normally heatsink them by soldering to big plane on the pcb (ground plane)
[22:55:15] <_methods> or that
[22:55:21] <archivist> or both
[22:55:22] <LeelooMinai> They are not really designed to be screwed as they don't have hole in them:) SMD
[22:55:24] <zeeshan> archivist: lies :P you have that fancy microscope
[22:55:30] <zeeshan> but i guess you use thatr for watch making
[22:55:49] <_methods> i've seen them attached to an alum plate taht was screwed down
[22:56:04] <archivist> microscope is useful for finding PCB shorts on new boards
[22:56:08] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Thanks, I'll look at the PCB when it arrives, but I believe they'll need additional cooling as well.
[22:56:35] <_methods> glue a heatsink on top of it
[22:56:51] <_methods> http://www.fischerelektronik.de/en/latest-news/press-releases/releases/smt-heatsinks-for-d-pak/
[22:56:52] <LeelooMinai> That would not work that well
[22:56:56] * Jymmm glues a heatsink on _methods
[22:57:12] <_methods> how's that cement cnc coming along lol
[22:57:18] <malcom2073> That's hot.
[22:57:38] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Saw those, they need to be soldered to the pcb
[22:57:44] <LeelooMinai> Yes, not how those heatsinks don't even have contact with the package - they transfer heat from the solder pad underneath the package
[22:57:52] <LeelooMinai> not=note
[22:58:18] <Jymmm> I guess I'll just sandwich together
[22:58:29] <_methods> i bet you will
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[22:58:46] <Jymmm> _methods: how much?
[22:58:47] <_methods> i'm a piece of white bread, you're a piece of white bread
[22:59:09] <_methods> soup sandwich time
[22:59:42] <_methods> don't listen to Jymmm he doesn't even know how to solder
[23:00:22] <Jymmm> ope, never soldered anything in my life
[23:00:24] <Jymmm> Nope*
[23:00:26] <_methods> hehe
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[23:02:04] <_methods> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDgwMA==/$(KGrHqR,!i4E9ef4lmJJBPd0lRJ)Gw~~60_35.JPG
[23:02:21] <_methods> they even anodized them lol
[23:02:48] <Jymmm> _methods: Yes, aluminum oxidizes if not.
[23:03:21] <LeelooMinai> Those are pretty bad heatsinks though - those packages are not designed to be cooled like that
[23:03:26] <Jymmm> _methods: the oxidation is a poor thermal conductor.
[23:03:56] <archivist> the oxidation is identical to anodising but thinner!
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[23:03:59] <_methods> yeah i guess they normally clear coat them
[23:04:07] <_methods> clear anodize
[23:04:38] <Jymmm> archivist: I've had poor electrical conductivity on heavily oxidized alumiun
[23:05:38] <archivist> you have to cut through to get a good connection always
[23:07:11] <Jymmm> archivist: This was REALLY bad, It was in the scrap bin of the metal supply and they just gave it away
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[23:11:31] <Jymmm> Yes, that's right, I have to SMUGGLE in a lamp to Kommiefornia *sigh* http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20110903/
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[23:12:21] <SpeedEvil> rectally?
[23:12:38] <_methods> it's the only way to get agood reading
[23:12:50] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I think I'm already fscked, so, um, yeah!
[23:13:03] <Jymmm> *sadly enough*
[23:13:16] <Jymmm> an ILLEGAL lamp, really?!
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[23:17:02] <SpeedEvil> They just need to throw a CFL into the box to make it legal
[23:17:36] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: "Light bulbs are sold separately"
[23:18:23] <SpeedEvil> exactly
[23:18:28] <SpeedEvil> you can't do that with title 20
[23:18:55] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: ?!
[23:19:12] <Jymmm> You cant sell a lamp without a light bulb?
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[23:19:50] <SpeedEvil> yes - it has to have an energy saving light bulb
[23:20:02] <SpeedEvil> or a socket which can only accept them, or a LED fixture
[23:20:12] <Jymmm> Oh gawd
[23:20:52] <_methods> hehe
[23:20:58] <_methods> black market lamps
[23:21:20] <malcom2073> LOL
[23:21:27] <Jymmm> _methods: You know how sad that sounds?
[23:21:43] <_methods> brawndo.....it's got 'lectrolytes
[23:22:11] <_methods> that stupid?
[23:22:21] <Jymmm> I can see it now... interior designs doing dark alley deals...
[23:22:36] <_methods> they already do that
[23:22:43] <_methods> they're interior designers
[23:23:11] <malcom2073> I hear your city has a..... designer problem
[23:23:13] <Jymmm> Some thug wearing casmeir on the corner around the corner from a box truck
[23:23:36] <_methods> hahah
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[23:24:22] <Jymmm> some tactical vest wearing rookie cop shoots suspect in an attempted illegal lamp purchase...
[23:24:51] <Jymmm> "It didn't have a orange tip, I thought it was a weapon"
[23:25:11] <_methods> the war on lamps
[23:25:22] <Jymmm> "The officer did what he was trianed to do"
[23:25:39] <malcom2073> Riots ensue, looting of home decoration stores
[23:26:00] <_methods> hehe first world problems
[23:26:15] <Jymmm> outlet strips fill the streets as rioters attempt to use their illegal lamps
[23:29:20] <The_Ball> Is there generally a difference between center drills and spot drills?
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[23:29:59] <jdh> yes
[23:30:38] <jdh> but I only have center drills so I use them for both.
[23:31:39] <JT-Shop> center drills are used to make a place for the center to fit, spot drills are use to keep a drill bit on center when it starts
[23:32:05] <SpeedEvil> z
[23:32:14] <SpeedEvil> What I want is a lefty drill.
[23:32:17] <The_Ball> huh, wikik says: "Most modern solid-carbide bits should not be used in conjunction with a spot drill bit or a center drill bit, as solid-carbide bits are specifically designed to start their own hole. Usually, spot drilling will cause premature failure of the solid-carbide bit and a certain loss of hole quality."
[23:32:25] <SpeedEvil> that will make a pilot hole for a bit a little to the left
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[23:37:13] <PetefromTn_> sure but most modern solid carbide drills are very expensive and only used for precision machining or the occasional drilling out a broken tap LOL
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[23:42:28] <_methods> yeah i just snatch all the "dead" drill from work
[23:42:52] <_methods> yg-1 dream drills and osg lol
[23:43:05] <_methods> they'll last forever with me
[23:46:31] * SpeedEvil idly wonders about a machine to wire EDM carbide drills.
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[23:47:42] <PetefromTn_> funny you mention yg1 we use them a lot around here and they are reasonably priced it seems.
[23:47:50] <_methods> yeah great drills
[23:47:52] <_methods> i love em
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[23:48:15] <_methods> i use osg for crazy stuff
[23:48:28] <_methods> but everyday drilling it's the dream drills
[23:50:17] * SpeedEvil wishes 'small parts' on amazon would ship to him.
[23:51:24] <PetefromTn_> they make a decent coated carbide endmill too I have several here.
[23:51:35] <_methods> yg?
[23:51:48] <_methods> i've tried their end mills
[23:51:53] <PetefromTn_> yeah I think so..
[23:51:56] <_methods> they were as good as anything else
[23:52:03] <PetefromTn_> yg1
[23:52:06] <_methods> i stick to the hanita varimills though
[23:52:13] <PetefromTn_> not even sure where they are made but they sure cut good
[23:52:46] <PetefromTn_> I hear they are good too but have not tried them personally in my machine. Had a few odd ones in the shops I worked in that seemed okay.
[23:53:24] <_methods> well they had the patent on the variflute thing for a long time
[23:53:28] <_methods> but now anyone can make it
[23:53:38] <_methods> so it really doesnt matter too much anymore
[23:54:17] <_methods> i havne't tried one of the varimill II series yet though
[23:54:24] <_methods> http://www.widia.com/en/products/29388747/29665015/29665021/38346376/100007244.html
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[23:55:38] <_methods> i guess widia bought hanita out or something
[23:57:21] * SpeedEvil ponders sanity.
[23:57:35] <SpeedEvil> I'm considering building a thermal probe - inside a 20 guage needle.
[23:58:08] <SpeedEvil> I guess I should try soldering up some parts first to see if it's doabe.
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[23:59:57] <_methods> can't you get somethign like that off the shelf?