Back
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[00:00:22] <Jymmm> I only see two wires GRN and BRN
[00:00:37] <zeeshan> the top side is where the wires are coming from the connector
[00:00:40] <zeeshan> its a 6 pin connector
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[00:00:53] <zeeshan> i mapped out 3 of the pins. they are the control side, the other 3 are unknown. trying to trace them now
[00:02:25] <Jymmm> I have no idea in the 6p connecotr has any corilation to the diagram pinout
[00:03:09] <Jymmm> I kust see 8 screw terminals
[00:03:12] <Jymmm> just*
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[00:03:35] <bobo_> in europe isn't one side of 220voltcommon ?
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[00:04:41] <bobo_> vers U.S. 220volt
[00:05:21] <Jymmm> spannung = voltage
[00:06:42] <furrywolf> if you want to gut a mechless radio, I have two semi-operational ones that can be had for the cost of shipping and my time to go to the post office.
[00:07:34] <bobo_> europe neutral =us common
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[00:10:21] <bobo_> zeeshan what is ohm meter reading from term 5 to metal ?
[00:13:33] <bobo_> in europe 0 volt-------------220volt in U.S. 220 volt-----------0 volt ---------220volt , zero volt = neutral = common
[00:14:10] <kengu> hmm
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[00:23:05] <bobo_> US. is realy 110----------------0-----------------110 ,but the meaning is --in U.S 220 is not between one Xfmr term(service xfmr)and common as it is in europe
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[00:33:19] <zeeshan> its toasting in the garage
[00:33:22] <zeeshan> 21.6C
[00:33:31] <zeeshan> 71 f
[00:33:36] <zeeshan> bobo_: hi
[00:33:55] <zeeshan> bobo that makes sense
[00:34:00] <zeeshan> so L1 is 220v.
[00:34:04] <zeeshan> in europe.
[00:34:09] <kengu> zeeshan: yes
[00:34:18] <zeeshan> pin 5 to metal is nothing
[00:34:36] <zeeshan> pin 4 is L1. pin 5 is neutral
[00:34:45] <zeeshan> so that accounts for 5 of the pins on this 6 pin connector
[00:35:03] <zeeshan> the 6th pin on the connector goes to pin 8 on that diagram
[00:35:05] <zeeshan> im not sure why?
[00:35:33] <zeeshan> all you need is pin 4 and pin 5 to power this up..?
[00:38:19] <bobo_> Yea
[00:38:28] <zeeshan> whats pin 8's purpose though
[00:39:13] <kengu> used in 110v config?
[00:39:14] <bobo_> 8 and 4 are hooked together
[00:39:24] <zeeshan> yes through a switch
[00:39:29] <zeeshan> but i dont understand why they're sending pin 8
[00:39:32] <zeeshan> to the connector?
[00:39:40] <zeeshan> im gonna disconnect it :P
[00:39:47] <zeeshan> and short it to make it work in 110v config
[00:39:53] <bobo_> 8 is for remote switch ie. controller
[00:40:04] <zeeshan> OHHH
[00:40:06] <zeeshan> that makes sense now.
[00:40:18] <zeeshan> so with pin 4 connected to L1. ONLY DK switch will turn it on
[00:40:34] <zeeshan> you actually want to connect pin 8 to L1
[00:40:39] <zeeshan> (from a relay)
[00:41:42] <bobo_> maho-----lub has to work before motion
[00:41:55] <zeeshan> bobo_: mine is going to a relay right now
[00:41:58] <zeeshan> and mesa will switch it
[00:42:05] <zeeshan> im doing the logic inside linuxcnc
[00:45:04] <bobo_> also runs for fixed time at first turn on then every so offten but also dependent on amount of xais motion and also more often if small
[00:46:31] <bobo_> contiounios motion----------digging small block/rectangle
[00:47:48] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Got pics of the mill I got, they're uploaing now
[00:48:06] <malcom2073> I neglected to resize them because I'm a tool :/ lol
[00:48:36] <bobo_> i want to see two/also
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[00:53:25] <furrywolf> three inline capacitors completed... the manual for my stepper drivers wants me to install a capacitor as close to the driver as possible... so I slit the zip cord, stripped a little section, wrapped it around the cap legs, and soldered. :)
[00:53:34] <furrywolf> never would fly in a commercial product...
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[00:54:23] <bobo_> will in pack i stand
[00:55:20] <furrywolf> ?
[00:55:42] <bobo_> near india
[00:55:57] <furrywolf> ok, pakistan.
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[00:56:49] <malcom2073> Here's the mil as it stands:
http://mikesshop.net/mill/
[00:57:55] <furrywolf> pakistan has excellent food. :)
[00:58:03] <zeeshan> malcom2073: that rust! :P
[00:58:05] <zeeshan> must fix
[00:58:13] <zeeshan> looks nice though
[00:58:22] <malcom2073> zeeshan: I'm going to take it completly apart and clean the rust ouf of the whole thing
[00:58:25] <malcom2073> taking the knee off even
[00:58:27] <furrywolf> "This linear toroidal unregulated power supply is perfect for demanding motion control projects. With 60VDC/20A power handling, your large steppers or servos will always have clean, stable, un-switched power.
[00:58:28] <furrywolf> "
[00:58:52] <furrywolf> ... linear unregulated, eh? someone does not know what that word means, methinks. as to clean, stable, and unregulated...
[00:58:57] <zeeshan> ball screws are good :D
[00:59:17] <malcom2073> Indeed. It was run off EMC with an old ISA card years an years ago running the servos, so it shouldn't be hard to hook up to a mesa board nowadays
[00:59:17] <furrywolf> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=460?osCsid=fa8cbdb65048893f46f7c5a2094a5d58 competence lacking.
[00:59:29] <malcom2073> I got the origonal Delta10 control box :-
[00:59:33] <malcom2073> :-D
[01:00:05] <zeeshan> http://mikesshop.net/mill/image043.jpg
[01:00:06] <zeeshan> what is that
[01:00:17] <bobo_> malcom looks great
[01:00:28] <malcom2073> The back of the spare servo that was sitting on the table
[01:00:46] <malcom2073> I believe it's identical to the three servos installed
[01:00:51] <zeeshan> that looks like heidenhain optical encoders
[01:01:02] <malcom2073> Also got a box of 16 assorted endmill/drill/collet holders
[01:01:15] <zeeshan> bobo
[01:01:17] <malcom2073> That fit the ISO30 spindle
[01:01:18] <zeeshan> im about to fire up the lubricator
[01:01:24] <zeeshan> if im not back in 20 min call 911
[01:01:26] <zeeshan> jk :P
[01:01:32] <malcom2073> lol
[01:01:41] <zeeshan> yea that looks iso30
[01:01:46] <furrywolf> do I really have to use glass fuses for the drivers, or can I get away with using 32V automotive blade fuses on 54V? heh
[01:01:46] <zeeshan> spindle looks in excellent condition
[01:01:47] <zeeshan> rust wise
[01:02:06] <zeeshan> furrywolf: lol
[01:02:08] <malcom2073> It does, it's fully retracted too, and rotates fairly easy with no *noticable* play
[01:02:13] <furrywolf> wouldn't surprise me if the "spare" servo is really the "replaced because it's broken" servo...
[01:02:18] <bobo_> photos needed of event horz
[01:02:19] <malcom2073> Probabl
[01:02:37] <zeeshan> malcom2073: why did they get rid of machine
[01:02:38] <zeeshan> what happened
[01:03:23] <furrywolf> do I even need separate fuses per driver? I'll be using 10A fuses, and the transformer is only rated for 15Aish... and will have an ac input fuse...
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[01:03:40] <zeeshan> furrywolf: why are you fusing each driver?
[01:03:44] <zeeshan> they dont have internal fuses?
[01:03:54] <malcom2073> zeeshan: The delta10 electronics died, so the orig. owner hired the guy I bought it from to retrofit EMC (back in the day). He did, and the orig owner could never get the hang of it (he was a "wtf is a pc" kinda guy). So the guy I bought it from operated it for him for a while, but eventually the orig owner lost his shop, wife, sad story.
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[01:04:06] <malcom2073> So he gave it to the guy I bought it from for really cheap, as partial payment for some services
[01:04:13] <zeeshan> malcom2073: ah
[01:04:16] <furrywolf> zeeshan: no
[01:04:23] <malcom2073> The guy I bought it from intended to upgrade to a newer linucnc with a mesa, and never got around to it
[01:04:23] <furrywolf> the manual says each one should get its own fuse..
[01:04:29] <zeeshan> furrywolf: doh
[01:04:32] <zeeshan> 54VDC?
[01:04:41] <furrywolf> 40VAC rectified and filtered
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[01:05:25] <furrywolf> I guess I should head to ratshack and pick up a glass fuse holder and some fuses...
[01:05:32] <zeeshan> yea im sure those will be ok
[01:05:37] <zeeshan> just look at the ratring
[01:05:55] <zeeshan> if they arent rated for the voltage you're looking for, they will go kaboom during a fault
[01:06:21] <bobo_> malcom that mill can rotate the ram which i think is very good
[01:06:44] <furrywolf> s/will/might. :P
[01:07:11] <malcom2073> bobo_: Yes, the ram can rotate
[01:07:15] <furrywolf> I'm sure I have the right fuses in storage somewhere, but it's cheaper to buy new ones than my time to look for the ones I have... I wish I had a shop. :(
[01:07:32] <malcom2073> Gonna yank the whole ram off before I move it
[01:08:16] <bobo_> also ram can move in / out --another big plus
[01:08:51] <malcom2073> Yeah, I saw that, makes it easier to work on large pieces
[01:09:03] <malcom2073> Plus, you can get up to 200mm ram height spacer to make it taller iirc
[01:09:48] <bobo_> dont let it tip over with ram out
[01:10:22] <bobo_> extended out
[01:10:24] <malcom2073> Lol yeah
[01:12:23] <furrywolf> bbl, radio shack.
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[01:13:38] <bobo_> 30 taper is better than R8 but not as available on used market
[01:14:01] <malcom2073> NMTB30 fits them
[01:14:12] <malcom2073> They're cheap enough on ebay, and I got a pile of them with it
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[01:15:43] <bobo_> quick switch /kwick switch is nice but very expensive
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[01:17:30] <s1dev> does anyone have any suggestions on how much to undersize the bore for pressing in a bushing?
[01:17:42] <s1dev> (bore is .750")
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[01:18:52] <bobo_> usualy oversize bushing is better
[01:20:12] <bobo_> ie . measur bore and size o.d. of bushing for press fit
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[01:21:21] <bobo_> o.d. easer to work down to size needed
[01:22:12] <bobo_> file/sand O.D.
[01:24:10] <bobo_> steel hole brass short bushing around 1 to 2 thow
[01:26:38] <bobo_> for hole of 1.75 inch or less
[01:36:58] <bobo_> zeeshan: 911 is on the way
[01:37:43] <bobo_> eta about sun up
[01:46:28] <bobo_> *bobo thinks zeeshan walked thru the event horizion
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[02:51:24] <zeeshan> lol
[02:51:27] <zeeshan> bobo it worked.
[02:51:45] <zeeshan> so yea dk switch needs its own non-relayed power
[02:53:04] <zeeshan> https://pdf.yt/d/BFCdKhm0xVeG8823
[02:53:08] <zeeshan> you can see circuit diagram here
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[02:55:36] <zeeshan> http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8637/15640074813_9fdd581803_b.jpg
[02:55:53] <zeeshan> out of all my limit switches, one is a proxmitiy switch
[02:55:54] <zeeshan> hmmm
[02:56:17] <zeeshan> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7464/16072613900_1eb1985853_b.jpg
[02:56:53] <Jymmm> thats sick man!
[02:58:09] <zeeshan> looks like top wire is brown. middle is black..
[02:58:41] <zeeshan> how do you determine if this is a npn or pnp sensor :/
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[03:10:50] <zeeshan> pcw_home: awake? :D
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[03:22:59] <bobo_> zeeshan what is that proxmity switch for ?
[03:23:08] <zeeshan> x axis limt
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[03:23:15] <zeeshan> slash home
[03:23:24] <bobo_> ok
[03:23:33] <zeeshan> i dont think i can hook this up directly to 7i77
[03:23:34] <zeeshan> cause its pnp
[03:23:41] <zeeshan> mesa needs npn
[03:23:46] <zeeshan> ill need to do some pull up resistor stuff..
[03:24:51] <furrywolf> http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=912;sa=showPosts some people really, really should not wire their own power supplies.
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[03:28:15] <zeeshan> almsot done wiring..
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[03:28:20] <zeeshan> minus the damn x axis sensor :P
[03:28:30] <zeeshan> cant wait to try this out!
[03:29:16] <furrywolf> I have no idea when/if I'm adding switches... looks like a pain. the machine obviously wasn't meant for them.
[03:29:30] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you can do it :P
[03:29:39] <zeeshan> doouble sided tape!
[03:29:40] <zeeshan> lol
[03:29:42] <furrywolf> I know I can, I just don't know if I want to. :P
[03:29:52] <zeeshan> i ran the lathe without sensors for a while
[03:30:01] <zeeshan> but man , homing on a lathe is so nice to have
[03:30:05] <zeeshan> so i added em
[03:30:47] <furrywolf> are they accurate enough to turn a part to diameter?
[03:31:08] <zeeshan> yes
[03:31:13] <zeeshan> just regular limit switches
[03:31:26] <zeeshan> i think i made a video of it
[03:32:30] <bobo_> zeeshan I was thinking on the lub systems plastic tubes. to see if or which ones are not flowing ? trying to add say red air condition dye
[03:32:51] <zeeshan> bobo you can kinda see it
[03:32:54] <zeeshan> with the air bubbles moving :P
[03:32:59] <zeeshan> but red dye would work
[03:33:51] <bobo_> but do not want to eat up the seals or tercite
[03:34:16] <zeeshan> im sure they make a proper dye for this purpose
[03:34:48] <furrywolf> ATF?
[03:36:21] <bobo_> so you have lub oil dripping onto machine base and out the two base holes -----as of now?
[03:36:47] <zeeshan> bobo_: i have the main line disconnected
[03:36:51] <zeeshan> fluid line
[03:36:53] <pcw_home> zeeshan: 7I77 inputs want PNP proxes
[03:36:53] <zeeshan> i can see it flowing
[03:37:00] <zeeshan> pcw_home: oh.
[03:37:06] <zeeshan> so this should be plug and play
[03:37:16] <zeeshan> now i remember, the encoder side was npn.
[03:37:31] <pcw_home> if it sources ~24V when on, yess
[03:40:12] <zeeshan> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7472/16258489741_f522a2516e_b.jpg
[03:40:22] <zeeshan> sorry for the crappy diagram
[03:40:40] <zeeshan> so the black wire will go to 7i77?
[03:40:43] <zeeshan> input
[03:41:04] <pcw_home> yes
[03:41:15] <zeeshan> thanks a lot!
[03:42:26] <Jymmm> "cut the red wire... 5... no the green wire... 4... I mena yellow... 3... "
[03:42:32] <zeeshan> lol
[03:43:08] <Jymmm> wanna know the funny thing?
[03:43:39] <zeeshan> yes? :D
[03:43:39] <Jymmm> If there's a red Light, they all looks the same =)
[03:45:05] <Jymmm> I have a multi colored flashlight, it's interesting what you see under different color light.
[03:45:31] <Jymmm> ^visible
[03:45:34] <Jymmm> ^visible light
[03:45:51] <XXCoder> yeah
[03:46:05] <Jymmm> some things competely disappear, othe rthings predominantly stand out "glowing"
[03:47:37] <Jymmm> I love this flashlight, but it's just too unique a thing to carry around.
[03:48:12] <Jymmm> If you come across one, pick it up.
[03:48:53] <SpeedEvil> I want a proper laserpointer.
[03:49:03] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: no you don't
[03:49:04] <SpeedEvil> 1AA cell, 100nm-100um, 0-1000W.
[03:49:35] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: 0.00000001nS
[03:50:02] <Jymmm> that would be firing duration =)
[03:50:26] <SpeedEvil> Today you can get 3W visible lasers in that form factor
[03:50:41] <Jymmm> and?
[03:50:47] <SpeedEvil> And yes - I don't expect theabove to arrive.
[03:50:54] <SpeedEvil> I want many things that are unlikely
[03:50:56] <XXCoder> 1 mW laser ;)
[03:50:59] <XXCoder> and shark for it
[03:51:07] <Jymmm> XXCoder: hang on...
[03:51:09] <SpeedEvil> Normal health, for one.
[03:51:46] <Jymmm> XXCoder:
http://i48.tinypic.com/ea096f.jpg
[03:52:04] <XXCoder> nixe
[03:52:07] <XXCoder> *nice
[03:52:20] <Jymmm> =)
[03:52:48] <Jymmm> XXCoder: So now you have your 1MW laser with shark, what are you going to do now Pinky?
[03:53:29] <XXCoder> take over the world of course, brainy!
[03:53:50] <Jymmm> GOOD ANSWER!!! GOOD ANSWER <audiance applause>
[03:54:06] <Jymmm> XXCoder: NARF!!!
[03:54:13] <XXCoder> lol
[03:54:30] <XXCoder> check this out though
http://www.cracked.com/article_20382_5-fan-theories-about-cartoons-that-will-ruin-your-childhood_p2.html
[03:56:58] <furrywolf> a) those greatly postdate my childhood, and b) who the hell cares?
[03:59:08] <furrywolf> I can't imagine a theory about a cartoon affecting anyone's childhood, or memories thereof.
[03:59:55] <XXCoder> yeah its all in fun lol
[04:01:09] -!- ariscop has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[04:02:05] <furrywolf> also, the site uses lazyloading, which is enough of a reason to ignore all future links to it, as if the content weren't enough...
[04:02:23] <XXCoder> lazyloading?
[04:03:13] -!- AR_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[04:03:17] <furrywolf> not loading stuff until you scroll to it.
[04:03:28] <furrywolf> which, on a slow connection, really means "long after you'd have wanted to be past it".
[04:04:01] <XXCoder> ahh yeah I have decent connection and I still hate it
[04:04:07] <XXCoder> amazon is very very bad on it
[04:04:17] <XXCoder> stuff keep moving around as I try to click
[04:04:23] <XXCoder> I hate i
[04:04:25] <XXCoder> it
[04:04:36] <furrywolf> it could also mean "we know our articles are so worthless that most people will do something else after the first paragraph, so we'll save the bandwidth of the rest of the article."
[04:05:07] <SpeedEvil> Well - the obvious clickbait title should be the first clue
[04:05:51] <XXCoder> cracked is humor site
[04:06:08] <XXCoder> always 3 or 4 new articles a day
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[04:07:04] <furrywolf> 0 of which are interesting?
[04:07:20] <XXCoder> actually in least one good one everyday
[04:07:40] <furrywolf> example? :P
[04:07:59] <XXCoder> the crazy fan theories one I linked to is pretty good but hold on
[04:08:22] * furrywolf didn't find it good
[04:08:44] <XXCoder> they also host photoshopping fun often and winner gets money. for example
http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_1268_how-world-would-look-without-guns/
[04:08:52] <XXCoder> no guns world one is pretty good funny lol
[04:10:14] <furrywolf> ... we have different ideas of what a good article is.
[04:11:27] <furrywolf> see, with a title like that, it could be something interesting, like an analysis of how wars and crime might differ...
[04:11:45] <XXCoder> cracked is a humor site
[04:12:27] <furrywolf> then it could be a satirical article.
[04:12:32] <XXCoder> they do present history sometimes in funny way
http://www.cracked.com/humor-history.html
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[04:13:31] <furrywolf> I think we also have different senses of humor.
[04:15:46] <furrywolf> also, all those articles seem to have idiotic list formats for no useful reason.
[04:15:59] <XXCoder> its just how cracked work
[04:16:23] <XXCoder> cracked actually is pretty old
[04:16:30] <XXCoder> they just adopted to internet
[04:18:15] <XXCoder> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracked.com
[04:19:02] <furrywolf> yes, I've heard of them before... and never saw any reason to go there.
[04:19:05] <furrywolf> and I still don't.
[04:19:23] <XXCoder> yeah im not worried :)
[04:19:32] <XXCoder> lazyloading is annoying though
[04:20:44] * furrywolf finds the register much funnier, and they're a real news site.
[04:20:44] <XXCoder> researching on disable lazy load
[04:20:54] <XXCoder> ahhyeah register
[04:20:57] <XXCoder> love that site
[04:22:35] <XXCoder> BOFH is fun
[04:24:29] <furrywolf> the funniest thing I've read lately is the book Ignition.
[04:24:42] FreezingAlt is now known as FreezingCold
[04:25:44] <furrywolf> yes, it is possible to make a text on rocket fuels humorous. :P
[04:26:00] <XXCoder> "The last half of your senior year of high school is supposed to be easy. Jes Anderson was looking forward to a relaxing final semester, followed by a lazy summer before heading off to college. Instead, she's been having nightmares of fire and brimstone, while her best friend Amanda is harassing her to find a boyfriend. As if that weren't annoying enough, a group of students from a rival town is temporarily transferred to Jes' high
[04:26:01] <XXCoder> school. Despite herself, she can't help but take an interest in Seth Thomas. Jes can tell there is something unusual about him. But what exactly? He's handsome and charming on the surface but Jes can't quite figure out if she likes him or hates his guts. And he seems to be hiding something. So much for an easy semester."
[04:26:13] <XXCoder> Ignition trilogy book 1 lol
[04:26:40] <XXCoder> You meant Ignition!?
[04:26:48] <furrywolf> no
[04:27:06] <furrywolf> no ? :P
[04:27:07] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/Ignition-informal-history-liquid-propellants/dp/0813507251
[04:27:25] <XXCoder> the ? is not title but my question mark lol
[04:27:27] <furrywolf> yes, that one
[04:27:50] <XXCoder> it gets odd when title itself has stuff like ? ! so on
[04:28:05] <XXCoder> cheap at $3,115
[04:29:40] <XXCoder> found pdf
[04:30:10] <XXCoder> thanks, will read it later
[04:31:06] <furrywolf> yeah, I read the pdf too.
[04:31:20] <furrywolf> $3115? lol
[04:31:25] <XXCoder> physical copy must be rare
[04:31:53] <furrywolf> methinks someone missed a decimal point.
[04:31:59] <XXCoder> not so
[04:32:05] <XXCoder> its cheap compared with other book
[04:32:10] <furrywolf> $31.15 would be a much more reasonable price.
[04:32:11] <XXCoder> that ones over 7k
[04:33:10] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ignition-An-Informal-History-of-Liquid-Rocket-Propellants-by-John-D-Clark-/221619601860?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item33998ec1c4
[04:33:16] <furrywolf> last one on ebay sold for $10. :P
[04:33:58] <XXCoder> yeah no idea why prices so insane on amazon. someone probably typo 7k one and other went for less than half price of 3,115 lol
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[04:34:06] <furrywolf> lol
[04:36:33] <furrywolf> http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/books/ignition.pdf
[04:36:34] <furrywolf> $0
[04:36:46] <XXCoder> thats where I downloaded it lol
[04:37:20] <furrywolf> I didn't expect what sounded like a chemistry textbook to be funny.
[04:37:56] <furrywolf> having passed at least basic chemistry is required to understand much of the non-funny parts, however.
[04:39:51] <furrywolf> to quote a review, "this book was far more interesting and enjoyable than a book about liquid rocket propellants has any right to be."
[04:40:03] <XXCoder> yah saw that lol
[04:41:07] <furrywolf> I still want to design a completely different rocket... but that takes time and money. I want to make external energy supply actually work - carrying only reaction mass onboard.
[04:41:22] <furrywolf> beam rider prototypes always seem to work, then they always vanish.
[04:43:12] <furrywolf> laser thermal, microwave thermal, or a combination thereof...
[04:46:12] <XXCoder> theres one reactionless drive thats probably bullshit
[04:46:30] <XXCoder> chinese just validifed, so either its real or they got fooled
[04:46:52] <XXCoder> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive
[04:47:49] <XXCoder> 2500W just for 720mN
[04:47:56] <furrywolf> I'll wait for more verification... as I remember, it's just the same type of things that didn't work with spinning gyroscopes and crap, but with electrons.
[04:48:38] <furrywolf> I suspect they'll eventually find it's just pushing off the earth's magnetic field or such.
[04:48:50] <XXCoder> possibly
[04:49:28] <furrywolf> or it's propelling the air around it
[04:49:28] <furrywolf> or etc
[04:50:00] <XXCoder> world be strange if idea was wrong in unexpected way
[04:50:10] <XXCoder> for example if it actually works by disorting space around it
[04:50:20] <furrywolf> of course, it'd be great if it actually worked.
[04:50:50] <furrywolf> however, no matter how great its working may be, I'll wait until there's substantial confirmation of that fact.
[04:51:02] <XXCoder> same
[04:51:17] <XXCoder> even with low power it would be very fast long term
[04:51:32] <XXCoder> because as long as its making power it can constantly fire
[04:51:45] <XXCoder> even xenon ion engine can't run tht long
[04:52:37] <furrywolf> it would have an infinite specific impulse, which is something I automatically don't like. :P
[04:52:53] <XXCoder> as long as it has power
[04:54:00] <furrywolf> if it works, the laws of physics will require updating. that's, of course, not impossible, but should be carefully demonstrated first.
[04:54:47] <XXCoder> I recall it got something to do with light having its own frame of reference so its "outside" the "engine" tank
[04:55:44] <furrywolf> a good series of tests might include operating it in a hard vacuum, flipping it 180 degrees and testing again, replacing it with a dummy load and testing again, etc.
[04:56:11] <XXCoder> or just two engines pointed opposite directions connected by pole sideways
[04:56:14] <XXCoder> if it spins it works
[04:56:40] <furrywolf> for example, the power wires feeding it may be generating magnetic fields, and interacting with the test apperatus or the earth's field.
[04:57:12] <XXCoder> it'll have to travel out some distance
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[04:57:22] <XXCoder> so earth magnet field appoch zerp
[04:57:24] <XXCoder> zero
[04:57:36] <furrywolf> or just use enough carefully designed tests to detect that.
[04:57:45] <XXCoder> indeed
[04:58:08] <furrywolf> deep space is obviously the real test, but would require demonstrating first.
[04:58:33] <furrywolf> testing it aligned in various directions with the earth's field should help see if that's what it's doing.
[04:59:19] <XXCoder> can always just put cluster of test stuff on xenon ion drive, after it uses up all xenon eject it then test reactionless drive. if it works great! if it does not well it'll still useful and has power source
[04:59:21] <furrywolf> if its peak thrust is in one direction, and it's nil 90 degrees from that direction, you can be pretty sure it's just an expensive electromagnet. :)
[04:59:36] <XXCoder> thats great idea yeah
[04:59:43] <furrywolf> unfortunately, "just" implies it's easy, and doesn't account for the costs and risks of space launches. heh.
[04:59:53] <XXCoder> always unfortunately
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[05:00:17] <XXCoder> too bad we cant make wormholes. even tiny ones with special equipment both ends
[05:00:59] <XXCoder> because even if machine is heavy once its in orbit it has unlimited fuel because well wormhole can pump in more fuel lol
[05:01:38] <furrywolf> yeah, that's still well within the realm of scifi rather than science.
[05:01:49] <XXCoder> very theorical still
[05:01:50] <furrywolf> if the emdrive works, there will be major changes to physics as we know it. I just don't know if it works yet. :P
[05:01:57] <XXCoder> not major actually
[05:02:20] <XXCoder> just bit tweaks and discovery of more facets
[05:02:25] <SpeedEvil> The 'NASA;'test was ridiculously flawed.
[05:02:46] <SpeedEvil> They spend 2/3 of the paper explaining their exquistitely complex vacuum chamber setup
[05:03:05] <furrywolf> the one they didn't bother actually pumping down? :P
[05:03:10] <SpeedEvil> And there are a couple of sentances saying 'but we couldn't find a vacuum rated amplifier, so we diddn't use it'
[05:03:11] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[05:03:32] <XXCoder> oh brother
[05:03:32] <SpeedEvil> I mean - fill it with helium, or pump down to half
[05:03:45] <SpeedEvil> Even if you can't find an actual vacuum rated amp.
[05:03:49] <XXCoder> well
[05:03:59] <XXCoder> just buy one? unless its insanely expensive?
[05:04:11] <SpeedEvil> Though it should take anyone with a clue 20 minutes to make a vacuum amp with stuff from the grocery store
[05:04:31] <XXCoder> NASA? Clue? they lost it some decades ago.
[05:04:40] <XXCoder> they was amazing during moon landing. now pfft
[05:04:56] <SpeedEvil> SpaceX is doing really, really cool things.
[05:05:09] <furrywolf> given as we're launched plenty of high-power RF amps into space (probably fifty times more of them than we've launched satellites!), they're obviously not a rare commodity.
[05:05:10] <SpeedEvil> On the path to 100 ton payload to mars.
[05:05:11] <roycroft> the mars rovers have been pretty darn impressive
[05:05:22] <XXCoder> it's because they know space (and life in general) is risk
[05:05:39] <XXCoder> roy there is that
[05:05:53] <furrywolf> yeah, opportunity is STILL going...
[05:05:57] <XXCoder> indeed
[05:06:03] <SpeedEvil> The specified criteriafor 'man rating' - makes it for astronauts that fly 12 times a year - they are safer than some jobs in the US market.
[05:06:10] <SpeedEvil> And regrettably - not lumberjacks.
[05:06:15] <SpeedEvil> Librarians.
[05:06:19] <SpeedEvil> yes - really.
[05:06:37] <XXCoder> ow
[05:06:47] <furrywolf> ... since when did librarians have an abnormally high death rate?
[05:06:58] <furrywolf> from what, dropping books on their heads?
[05:06:59] <SpeedEvil> (lookin gat beurau of labour statistics for death at work of librarians
[05:07:25] <roycroft> logging would be a safe occupation if loggers weren't doing it
[05:07:35] <furrywolf> if anything, I suspect it's an anamoly due to the average age and health of librarians vs other professions.
[05:08:09] <SpeedEvil> No, librarian is pretty much one of the safest professions
[05:08:12] <furrywolf> librarians are often older and in poor shape, and like working until they drop dead instead of retiring.
[05:08:40] * SpeedEvil sighs at low-grade food poisoning.
[05:08:46] <furrywolf> we just had someone killed at the local lumber mill, speaking of lumberjack death rates.
[05:08:52] <SpeedEvil> I'mnot really feeling like puking.
[05:08:58] <SpeedEvil> But I'm kinda wishing I was.
[05:09:30] <furrywolf> ... except it wasn't actually an employee of the mill. it was an osha-hired contracted safety inspector, who when inspecting a manlift, ran it into the big powerlines to the nearby power plant.
[05:09:43] <SpeedEvil> oops
[05:09:43] <XXCoder> speed better than actual sick like me
[05:09:54] <XXCoder> furr what the hell
[05:10:06] <XXCoder> its like that gun instuctor who shot himself
[05:10:11] <furrywolf> a couple fingers down your throat will fix that nicely. :P
[05:10:15] <XXCoder> while teaching class
[05:10:19] <furrywolf> xxcoder: yep
[05:10:21] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: yeah - it's not quite that bad
[05:11:24] <furrywolf> you can see how it happened... since it was an osha person with no knowledge of the plant, they didn't know where the hazards were, and since they do the same tests all day, didn't do a proper pre-test hazard analysis...
[05:11:38] <furrywolf> complacency combined with unfamiliarity.
[05:11:47] <XXCoder> too bad
[05:11:51] <furrywolf> ... the kind of things safety people tell you not to do. heh.
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[05:12:49] <furrywolf> apparantly one of the mill employees even suggested he do the tests somewhere else, just saying there was a lot of stuff around, but not explicitly pointing out the power lines. inspector wanted to save time and not drive it around...
[05:13:02] <XXCoder> fun start at 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng0891334oo
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[05:15:04] <XXCoder> jeez
[05:17:53] <furrywolf> and so, his final task as safety inspector, was giving a very good lesson on why you identify hazards before operating, not after.
[05:20:52] <furrywolf> other than the low efficiency, what keeps the emdrive from being a perpetual motion machine?
[05:21:16] <furrywolf> he claims new designs will have much higher efficiency, on the order of several newtons per watt.
[05:21:52] <furrywolf> by some very rough mental figuring, if it works, it's also a free energy device.
[05:22:13] <furrywolf> which immediately places it into another category of nonfunctioning crackpot devices.
[05:23:55] <XXCoder> well if it equals how much energy it takes to move then no
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[05:24:10] <XXCoder> if it somehow takes less energy than theorical, then yes
[05:24:25] <XXCoder> and less well reality its always less due to losses like heat
[05:24:30] <XXCoder> noise so on
[05:27:56] <furrywolf> I have a spare microwave oven and a milling machine... but no vacuum chamber. oh well.
[05:28:10] <XXCoder> can always build one
[05:28:18] <XXCoder> you got mill
[05:28:24] <Jymmm> 8" pvc pipe with screw caps
[05:28:59] <XXCoder> Jymmm:
http://hackaday.io/project/1023-low-cost-co2-laser-build
[05:29:10] <XXCoder> laser using pvc lol
[05:29:35] <furrywolf> micronewton torsion balances are way too much work. putting it on a float in a draft-tight box with water in the bottom is much easier. :P
[05:29:43] <Jymmm> It's possible, but the gasses will leak quickly
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[05:31:30] <furrywolf> could also be doing something stupid like knocking ions out of the stainless... the thrust produced is so small that even very tiny side-effects could account for it.
[05:31:41] <furrywolf> or maybe he invented a new x-ray generator
[05:33:25] <furrywolf> does "quantum vacuum plasma" sound way too much like "aether" to anyone but me?
[05:33:35] <XXCoder> maybe heh
[05:34:14] <furrywolf> let's invent an undetectable fluid to explain what we're acting on!
[05:35:07] <XXCoder> I wish guy there explained more on how he built that laser thing
[05:35:10] <XXCoder> I do want to try it
[05:36:35] <furrywolf> doesn't sam's laser faq have a whole section on diy lasers?
[05:37:09] <XXCoder> http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm ?
[05:37:34] <furrywolf> yes
[05:38:03] <furrywolf> something you should read if you have any interest in homebrew lasers. if I remember right, it even has a whole section on how to build a co2 laser...
[05:39:13] <furrywolf> http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasercc2.htm#cc2toc there you go
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[05:41:36] <XXCoder> thanks
[05:42:07] <furrywolf> in fact, you should read ALL the sam's faqs. they cover everything from lasers to microwaves to lawnmowers to dishwashers. :P
[05:42:24] <XXCoder> lol ok
[05:44:34] <furrywolf> too bad a lot of it is outdated... it hasn't been updated since the section on fixing VCRs was useful...
[05:45:02] <XXCoder> I can tell. it contains gripe about animated gifs
[05:45:45] <furrywolf> no, that's still relevant.
[05:45:57] <XXCoder> well yes
[05:46:08] <XXCoder> back then its loading time, now its annoyance factor
[05:46:11] <furrywolf> it's something designers of certain modern OSes should read, too.
[05:46:23] <furrywolf> I do not want my icons to bounce.
[05:49:36] <furrywolf> he has sections on all sorts of random things... how to make scrap x-ray machines functional... audio amp repair... video conversion... lawnmowers... etc.
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[05:53:01] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
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[06:37:39] <zeeshan> ah so much wiring
[06:37:42] <zeeshan> all i/o is done.
[06:37:50] <zeeshan> only servo wiring left
[06:37:52] <zeeshan> hooray
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[06:43:43] <Jymmm> I/O, I/O, It's off to work we go...
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[08:04:18] <Deejay> moin
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[10:16:10] <bobo_> zeeshan it has been over 3 hours
[10:16:44] <bobo_> is it wired up now ?
[10:17:36] <bobo_> what is the problem ?
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[10:22:59] <archivist_herron> past his bedtime!
[10:23:48] <bobo_> kids these days
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[13:48:45] <JT-Shop> anyone build a forge to melt brass?
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[14:02:45] <cradek> I've done it in a gingery furnace
[14:03:46] * JT-Shop looks that up
[14:04:41] <malcom2073> Does it have a red top?
[14:04:57] <jdh> or a soul?
[14:05:20] * syyl_ws felt of his chair
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[14:08:19] <JT-Shop> cradek, you use propane to fire the furnace?
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[14:10:32] <archivist_herron> check colour of brass scrap to get a similar mix
[14:12:41] <JT-Shop> you mean red vs yellow brass?
[14:13:14] <JT-Shop> I have about 400lbs of yellow brass scrap and 100lbs of red brass scrap
[14:13:28] <archivist_herron> yes and the pale casting brass (soft)
[14:14:07] <JT-Shop> ok, seperate cast brass from wrought brass
[14:14:39] <archivist_herron> they often die cast the normal yellow
[14:15:17] <archivist_herron> how it files can show a hard v soft
[14:15:57] <JT-Shop> ok, good info to know
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[14:18:57] <archivist_herron> and....I want to do it one day
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[14:22:38] <JT-Shop> I have a 77 year old friend that used to cast gold and silver and I need a hobby for him and me
[14:22:58] <jdh> how about casting gold and silver?
[14:23:12] <Jymmm> bank robbery of ols stage coaches?
[14:23:18] <Deejay> lol
[14:23:18] <Jymmm> old*
[14:23:29] <Jymmm> Jewlerysmithing
[14:24:46] <Jymmm> you guys can come up with jewlery designs, cnc the molds for lost wax casting
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[14:26:37] <jdh> or take up the lost art of strip club patronage
[14:26:46] <Jymmm> belt buckles, vest pins
[14:27:28] <Jymmm> jdh: But thats just looking no touching = prick tease. They should go into pimping and hustling instead.
[14:27:38] <jdh> he's 77
[14:27:48] <Jymmm> viagra?
[14:28:22] <malcom2073> So his pimp cane will be legit
[14:28:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: can be the brawn and the 77yo the brains
[14:28:25] <Deejay> lol
[14:28:32] <Jymmm> malcom2073: EXACTLY
[14:29:09] <Jymmm> and since they cast gold, JT-Shop will look natural with gold capped teeth
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[14:29:27] <archivist_herron> cnc my ride
[14:29:28] <jdh> mail order grillz
[14:29:44] <Jymmm> There we go!
[14:30:14] <Jymmm> lol @ archivist_herron. you get that show in the UK ?
[14:30:15] <malcom2073> Yo I heard you like cnc's in your cnc so I cnc'ed your cnc!
[14:30:37] <jdh> that's probably too close to accurate to be funny
[14:30:46] <archivist_herron> Jymmm, we did get some
[14:30:57] <Jymmm> archivist_herron: ah
[14:30:59] <malcom2073> I met someone who worked at one of the shops they used, the only redeeming value, is that they thought it was stupid as it actually was
[14:31:45] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I think if you made custom pins/logos/embelems you might have something.
[14:32:04] <archivist_herron> I did some hanger on for a TV show, stuff for the masses is low quality
[14:32:50] <archivist_herron> hand engrave the resultant brass
[14:33:30] <Jymmm> Man Cave stuff
[14:34:19] <Jymmm> and when ya screw up, just remelt
[14:34:55] <archivist_herron> nah just file down a bit and re engrave
[14:35:33] <archivist_herron> drill out a bad bit and rivet in some new file and engrave to match
[14:35:36] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Imagine custom made/cast awards, vest pins, MC embems, colors, etc
[14:36:29] <archivist_herron> imagine dial repair
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=norfolk+dial
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[14:45:15] <cradek> JT-Shop: yeah, just propane from a grill-sized tank
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[14:46:52] <JT-Shop> ok, thanks
[14:47:20] <JT-Shop> what size crucible do you use?
[14:47:40] <JT-Shop> I see they are rated by A or B type and sizes
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[16:44:06] <zeeshan> bobo i gave up for the night :P
[16:44:28] <jdh> wip
[16:44:30] <jdh> wimp
[16:45:11] <zeeshan> my enclosure is a wiring mess
[16:45:13] <zeeshan> on the i/o side
[16:45:16] <zeeshan> tons of wires
[16:45:16] <malcom2073> Bah! No quitting!
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[16:46:14] <zeeshan> question of the day: i spin servo by hand, measure the voltage at the motor leads, i get +v in cw direction -v in ccw direction
[16:46:33] <zeeshan> also meaasure the tachometer leads and get +v cw , -v ccw
[16:46:49] <zeeshan> have i identified the + leads for both the tacho and the motor?
[16:47:00] <zeeshan> as long as they're the same , i should not have "run away"?
[16:47:50] <pcw_home> yes (typically they are subtracted at the summing junction an the drive input)
[16:48:05] <pcw_home> (but this is drive dependent)
[16:49:01] <pcw_home> commanded velocity and tachometer velocity are subtracted I should say
[16:49:20] <zeeshan> "The feedback element must be connected for negative feedback. This will cause a difference between the command signal and the feedback signal, called the error signal."
[16:49:34] <zeeshan> (from manual)
[16:50:19] <pcw_home> well connect tachometer and it will either runaway or not
[16:50:29] <zeeshan> haha im trying to avoid re-wiring it
[16:50:32] <zeeshan> caus eits a pain to swap the leads.
[16:51:00] <zeeshan> i have 2 things left
[16:51:18] <zeeshan> tacho wiring, motor lead wiring, and scale wiring (analog side)
[16:51:20] <zeeshan> i guess 3 things.
[16:51:23] <pcw_home> unless the drive specifies the analog input to output polarity you still have to test
[16:51:41] <zeeshan> the most annoying will be the scale wiring, cause each twisted pair has a shield, and then there is an external shiled around the whole set of twisted pairs
[16:52:27] <zeeshan> well it identies which leads o nthe drive out of motor a b c is motor + and motor -
[16:53:03] <zeeshan> motor a = motor -, and motor b = +
[16:54:16] <zeeshan> it also says tach - = tachomter input, tach+ = signal ground
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[16:57:25] <pcw_home> so use their polarities, but expect runaways (dont couple linear motion initially
[16:57:37] <zeeshan> yes theyre off
[16:57:43] <zeeshan> also if i limit the current on the servo drive
[16:57:51] <zeeshan> it shouldnt be an aggressve jump right?
[16:57:54] <zeeshan> cause it wont have as much torque
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[17:32:56] <tjtr33> zeeshan: all the old Baldor/Copley drives i used had tacho + connected to gnd, and tacho - connected to opamp input ( some filtering 1st but no inversion ).
[17:33:07] <tjtr33> This just depends on internal err circuit implementation.
[17:33:10] <tjtr33> I suggest connecting per mfctr on a bench, not to machine. use a battery box to verify motor and tacho polarities.
[17:36:02] <tjtr33> http://www.copleycontrols.com/motion/pdf/412.pdf
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[17:40:27] <norias> howdy
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[17:45:11] <norias> having trouble determining what motherboard to buy
[17:45:16] <norias> any suggestions?
[17:46:03] <jdh> software stepping or hardware?
[17:46:33] <tjtr33> or servo.then onsider isa/pci/ethernet
[17:46:34] <norias> software...
[17:46:43] <norias> so, more complete description
[17:46:54] <norias> i am replacing the controller in a commercial cnc
[17:47:11] <norias> it has brushed dc servos and amplifiers
[17:47:27] <norias> encoders, also
[17:47:42] <norias> planning on using mesa anything i/o boards
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[17:48:52] <norias> everything that people have said is a good board for linuxcnc
[17:48:55] <norias> is unavailable
[17:49:00] <norias> (i.e. my info is old)
[17:50:54] <tjtr33> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135339 i have no experience with it, but it has been mentioned as good for Linuxcnc
[17:51:27] <norias> for $60 I'll run with it
[17:51:32] <tjtr33> ECS CDC-I/D2550 v1.0 Intel Atom D2500 Intel NM10 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo
[17:51:38] <tjtr33> try to read about it
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[17:53:19] <norias> i appreciate the suggestion
[17:53:21] <tjtr33> i always balk at single pcu slots, and go back to big old desktops w P4's and lots of slots
[17:53:29] <norias> hmm
[17:53:39] <norias> i don't think i'll need more than one slot
[17:53:41] <tjtr33> ^^ balking
[17:53:43] <zeeshan> lol thats so cheap
[17:53:45] <tjtr33> :)
[17:53:47] <norias> since this will be a single purpose machine
[17:53:57] <norias> i know! computers are so cheap!
[17:54:00] <norias> it's freakish
[17:54:21] <norias> makes me want to build a bunch of little computers
[17:54:26] <norias> special purpose
[17:54:32] <norias> a tv-watching computer
[17:54:33] <tjtr33> big town? friendly recycler? go in with a live cd and run tests
[17:54:36] <zeeshan> maybe i should use that motherboard
[17:54:37] <norias> and a music listening computer
[17:54:48] <zeeshan> there is no gfx card port!
[17:55:01] <zeeshan> i thought on board video caused jitter?
[17:55:11] <tjtr33> some not all
[17:55:23] <tjtr33> (hasnt testde all yet :)
[17:55:27] <norias> heh
[17:55:34] <norias> so... yeah, for $60 though
[17:55:38] <norias> I can give it a try
[17:55:54] <PCW> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157565&cm_re=j1900_asrock-_-13-157-565-_-Product
[17:55:55] <PCW> about 2x faster if you have the space
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[17:56:58] <PCW> atom d525s and d2xxxs's are slugs
[17:57:13] <malcom2073> mesa mesa mesa :P
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[17:58:19] <malcom2073> oh you were talking about mesa, does having onboard video affect the jitter ina mesa based system?
[17:59:48] <norias> mesa
[18:00:11] <PCW> all jitter has effects (D525s that show <10 usec in latency test have 100 usec or more real latency)
[18:00:47] <tjtr33> thx PCW is there any more info on howto do real latency tests?
[18:01:02] <malcom2073> PCW: I thought the whole idea behind offloading the step clock onto the FPGA was that jitter wouldn't matter?
[18:01:06] <PCW> latency test only shows thread dispatch latency which is fine until you actually try to run code
[18:01:18] <tjtr33> so scope needed?
[18:01:35] <PCW> halscope will do
[18:01:43] <tjtr33> ok thx!
[18:01:57] <PCW> plot read times for example
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[18:04:18] <norias> bah
[18:04:26] <zeeshan> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc-formerly-emc2-/155405-hardware-pulse-generation-questions.html
[18:04:26] <zeeshan> lol
[18:04:30] <PCW> malcom2073: in the step generator jitter is still an issue because the stepgen uses feedback
[18:04:31] <zeeshan> i somehow came to this link
[18:04:32] <PCW> (it samples the step generator position at the servo thread rate so it can close a feedback loop)
[18:04:41] <zeeshan> this guy called the 5i25 a fancy gpio board
[18:04:44] <zeeshan> =D
[18:05:12] <tjtr33> hmm, halscope has unit of 1 thread cycle. so run a 'fast' thread and look for regularity between cyclic reads?
[18:05:34] <tjtr33> like read of a hardware pin
[18:05:36] <malcom2073> Hmm, I guess I'll have to look into it a bit more, I misunderstood what the mesaboard could do for me I think heh
[18:05:41] <PCW> no, plot the read time (for example)
[18:07:04] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, it is pretty fancy
[18:07:11] <zeeshan> i know :P
[18:07:18] <zeeshan> but he was saying it in a "putting down" sense
[18:07:18] <tjtr33> the time stamps of reads? not understanding 'read time'
[18:07:22] <PCW> you can generate MHz steprates with the stepgen and there are ways to mitigate jitter (if you are running 2.6 or later you can remove most jitter with the DPLL module)
[18:08:23] <PCW> with the DPLL module its possible to get sampling jitter < 500 ns with real jitter in the 100s of usec region
[18:10:56] <PCW> normally this is not needed unless:
[18:10:57] <PCW> 1. You have a CPU with lousy jitter specs
[18:10:59] <PCW> 2. you are running Preemt-RT (like with hm2_eth)
[18:11:00] <PCW> 3. you have a very high performance step/dir system (100IPS or so) and have a small error budget
[18:13:08] <PCW> tjtr33: all hal functions have parameters for the time they take to run, and the maximum time, plotting these can be interesting
[18:13:25] <tjtr33> thx will look into that
[18:14:16] <PCW> you will find that the time to run major functions has much more jitter than indicated in the latency test...
[18:14:53] <PCW> (note that these times are in CPU clocks)
[18:15:17] <tjtr33> :) good soemthing that is invariate :)
[18:15:29] <tjtr33> cpu clock
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[18:18:44] <PCW> well you _hope_ the CPU clock is invariant :-)
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[18:21:03] <norias> oops
[18:21:06] <norias> missed all that
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[18:22:34] <norias> so, sounds like PCW is expert here
[18:26:24] <norias> incidentally
[18:26:31] <norias> on these anything i/o mesa cards
[18:26:38] <norias> what lives on the fpga?
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[18:27:57] <norias> i think i'm going with 7i33ta for my daughter card
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[18:31:36] <tjtr33> got ttl encoders/scales?
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[18:32:36] <norias> no idea
[18:32:41] <norias> not sure how to tell
[18:32:42] <norias> maybe
[18:32:53] <norias> time to learn about encoders
[18:33:03] <norias> oh! thats what ttl means!
[18:33:07] <norias> Time To Learn!
[18:33:33] <norias> bbiaf looking for part numbers on encoders
[18:33:42] <tjtr33> transistor to transistor logic aka 5V sqr wave
[18:36:02] <tjtr33> bbl back to remodeling
[18:40:19] <norias> half the companies that made parts for this machine
[18:40:28] <norias> have been acquired by other companies
[18:40:39] <norias> and almost every part is no longer manufactured / supported
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[18:45:34] <gambakufu> anu reason why debian is the preferred dist for 2.6 over ubuntu?
[18:46:09] <norias> people who like cnc don't like stuff that looks pretty :)
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[18:55:52] <PCW> probably unity pushed it over the edge
[18:56:56] <norias> so, crap
[18:57:04] <norias> how do i know if my encoder is ttl?
[18:57:27] <PCW> number of wires
[18:57:48] <PCW> rotary encoder?
[18:58:25] <PCW> (lots of older linear encoders are sine/cosine)
[18:58:39] <norias> rotary
[18:58:54] <norias> has ... a+ a- b+ b- z ...
[18:59:07] <PCW> differential then
[18:59:18] <norias> ahh, ok
[18:59:21] <norias> hmm
[18:59:33] <PCW> so 8 wires maybe with a shield
[18:59:43] <norias> so, what lives on the fpga in the mesa anything i/o cards?
[18:59:53] <norias> and mesa 7i33ta
[18:59:56] <PCW> depends :-)
[19:00:01] <norias> works with this kind of encoder?
[19:01:01] <PCW> thats an interface issue not a logic issue bu yes most of our enccoder interfaces can work with TTL or differential
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[19:02:02] <PCW> you might look at the 7I77/5I25 combo, newer and cheaper than a 7I33TA/50 pin FPGA card/isolated IO card
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[19:02:39] <norias> "our" ?
[19:02:43] <norias> do you work at mesa?
[19:02:48] <PCW> yes
[19:02:56] <norias> good deal. nice products
[19:02:59] <PCW> I'm the mesa shill
[19:03:02] <norias> from what i can tell
[19:03:17] <norias> so... what lives on the fpga?
[19:05:03] <PCW> well again it depends on the configuration, might bwe PWM gens and encoder counters or stepgens or serial interfaces or absolute encoder interface
[19:05:04] <PCW> plus a bus interface for the host connection
[19:05:32] <norias> so, i have to load the fpga
[19:05:38] <norias> or it comes with code on it?
[19:05:54] <PCW> bus interface might be localbus, PCI, SPI , Serial, Ethernet etc
[19:06:19] <norias> incidentally, what is your role at mesa?
[19:06:34] <norias> ( i know, i have lots of questions)
[19:06:43] <PCW> depends on card, some use on card flash, others are programmed when linuxcnc starts
[19:07:01] <PCW> Chief bottlewasher
[19:07:23] <JT-Shop> and sheep protector
[19:07:29] <norias> bbiaf
[19:07:32] <norias> boss calling
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[19:25:17] <norias> back
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[20:03:20] <norias> documentation is hard
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[21:46:55] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:44:15] <Computer_Barf> do you guys know of any company that makes all in one driver / steppers like these that offer a 570 oz in option?
[22:44:18] <Computer_Barf> http://motion.schneider-electric.com/products/mdrive/mdrive_plus_motion_control.php?nema=23
[22:46:32] <malcom2073> Computer_Barf: nema34 not an option?
[22:46:54] <malcom2073> Also, why?
[22:46:59] <Computer_Barf> not the best size for the x / y of the g0704
[22:48:55] <Computer_Barf> well I like that they are hybrid's with encoders, and I like the driver on the stepper rather than in a box
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[22:52:05] <Computer_Barf> forgoing the three drivers in the electronics enclosure would save some space, and I like the idea of possibly adding water cooled heatsinks to their coolant enclosures
[22:52:31] <Computer_Barf> not to mention that coolant flying all over the place would likely wash over those enclosures
[22:52:45] <malcom2073> Wow that operating temp heh
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[22:54:20] <Computer_Barf> oh well I don't know how hot they will get , it just seemed like putting something in a box that might get hot could be handled some other way
[22:55:32] <Computer_Barf> The Z axis is going to be nema 34
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[22:55:59] <Computer_Barf> but its my understanding that they are too big for the x and y
[22:57:04] <PCW> Integrated drives have never been very popular (bad environment for electronics: heat, vibration, contamination very expensive if something goes wrong)
[22:57:51] <Computer_Barf> arnt you already risking that with the stepper?
[22:58:01] <PCW> nope
[22:58:28] <Computer_Barf> i mean, with flood all over the place Im already running the assumption that I need to enclose and seal it off
[22:58:33] <furrywolf> steppers are much less picky than electronics, especially about heat. steppers put out a lot of heat and don't mind being hot, while electronics fail very quickly at the temperature a stepper runs at...
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[22:59:45] <PCW> on the other hand hybrid steppers should not run very hot, but there are reasons why integrated drives are rare
[23:00:16] <furrywolf> of course they should run hot. if they're not running hot, your drive current and/or voltage should be upped more. :)
[23:00:23] <norias> heh
[23:00:24] <malcom2073> lol
[23:00:32] <norias> my irc says "People are talking."
[23:00:34] <norias> I saw it as
[23:00:39] -!- karavanjo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[23:00:40] <norias> "People are attacking!"
[23:00:55] <Computer_Barf> you won't get the warning when that happens.
[23:00:58] <PCW> hybrid (with encoder) step motor dont run hot
[23:01:05] <norias> hmm
[23:01:12] <norias> you usually hear the rounds hitting stuff around you
[23:01:16] <PCW> (because they are full servos)
[23:01:27] <furrywolf> ah
[23:01:40] <furrywolf> I figured you meant hybrid, as in, hybrid permanent magnet and variable reluctance...
[23:01:49] <furrywolf> which is what most steppers these days are.
[23:02:04] <malcom2073> That actually reminds me a bit of SmartMotors
[23:02:05] <Computer_Barf> cool problem solved , where can I get 570 oz version. lol.
[23:02:12] <malcom2073> the mdrive
[23:05:01] <furrywolf> what's wrong with drivers in a box like everyone else?
[23:05:26] <norias> just be like everyone else!
[23:05:29] <norias> conform!
[23:05:43] <furrywolf> yes!
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[23:06:19] <furrywolf> (says the furry kinky redneck commie hippie...)
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[23:21:57] <JT-Shop> damn van won't start, battery is good... starter overhauled and new solenoid last month...
[23:22:59] <Computer_Barf> is it a white van?
[23:23:30] <JT-Shop> no
[23:23:49] <Computer_Barf> humm. I was thinking it maybe hasn't done enough raping lately
[23:24:44] <Tom_itx> take the mule instead
[23:24:58] <Computer_Barf> what about selling stolen goods out of the back of it
[23:25:02] <Computer_Barf> have you tried that?
[23:26:57] <Computer_Barf> there has to be more van stereotypes
[23:27:31] <Computer_Barf> are you just a working class kinda guy that needs his van working ready for work tomorrow?
[23:32:33] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: is it cranking at all
[23:34:06] <JT-Shop> no, just a click and the headlights don't dim but the dash lights dim when I try and start it
[23:34:31] <zeeshan> whats the battery voltage at
[23:34:33] <zeeshan> without cranking
[23:34:36] <JT-Shop> cleared the memory and tried both keys
[23:34:40] <JT-Shop> 12.8
[23:35:01] <JT-Shop> battery is new and load checked today
[23:35:13] <zeeshan> im thinking you have a bad ground somewhere
[23:35:20] <zeeshan> did you try wiggling the ground at the battery
[23:35:23] <zeeshan> to make sure its not loose
[23:35:44] <JT-Shop> headlights don't dim...
[23:36:18] <zeeshan> headlight ground takes a diff path
[23:36:21] <JT-Shop> I think a rat chewed some critical wire somewhere
[23:36:33] <zeeshan> starter ground share engine ground
[23:36:42] <zeeshan> id measure the resistance between starter body and negative battery temrinal
[23:36:53] <zeeshan> if that reads some ohms
[23:37:00] <zeeshan> its prolly the solenoid remote work
[23:37:01] <zeeshan> *wire
[23:37:04] <JT-Shop> LOL, I can't even find the starter on that damn sidways V6
[23:37:25] <zeeshan> transversely mounted?
[23:38:01] <JT-Shop> yes it is front wheel drive V6
[23:38:25] <zeeshan> if you cant see it, its prolly on the back side of the motor
[23:38:30] <zeeshan> near firewall towarsd the bottom
[23:38:43] <zeeshan> :/
[23:39:01] <JT-Shop> I'll have to jack it up after the sun comes back up and see if I can spot it
[23:39:05] <zeeshan> if it was easier to access, you could disconnect the remote solenoid wire
[23:39:16] <zeeshan> put voltmeter between that and battery ground
[23:39:19] <zeeshan> and see if it goes to 12v when you crank
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[23:39:31] <zeeshan> if it doesnt, then at least you can isolate what is wrong
[23:39:40] <JT-Shop> what is a "remote" solenoid wire?
[23:40:14] <zeeshan> starter has 3 terminals, 2 big ones. big wire comes directly from battery (usually unfused), and ground
[23:40:30] <zeeshan> there is a smaller terminal, like about 10 gauge or 12 gauge wire that activates the solenoid
[23:40:36] <zeeshan> when you crank
[23:40:45] <JT-Shop> yea, I'm familiar with most starters
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[23:41:31] <zeeshan> http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/266999_starter_3.jpg
[23:41:32] <JT-Shop> I thought you meant something like a "remote" starter
[23:41:32] <zeeshan> term s
[23:41:37] <zeeshan> nahh
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[23:41:52] <JT-Shop> yea, I know what a starter solenoid looks like
[23:41:58] <zeeshan> i know!
[23:42:01] <zeeshan> but im a visual person :P
[23:42:30] <JT-Shop> I just don't see this one from the top even with a bunch of stuff taken off
[23:42:46] <zeeshan> is it a GM?
[23:43:10] <JT-Shop> chevy yea
[23:43:12] <JT-Shop> uplander
[23:43:15] <JT-Shop> POS
[23:43:17] <zeeshan> year?
[23:43:17] <zeeshan> haha
[23:43:25] <JT-Shop> 2007
[23:43:26] <zeeshan> i have manuals till 2006
[23:43:28] <zeeshan> AW
[23:43:29] <zeeshan> damn
[23:43:34] <zeeshan> 2006
[23:43:40] <zeeshan> 2006 is prolly similar
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[23:43:53] <JT-Shop> yea, I'd guess it is the same
[23:44:01] <zeeshan> http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/tracker40/2011-10-22_165848_1.gif
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[23:44:10] <zeeshan> haha they placed it under the exhaust manifold
[23:44:21] <zeeshan> is your exhaust mani towards firewall
[23:44:23] <zeeshan> or rad
[23:44:28] <JT-Shop> which one the front or back one
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[23:44:44] <zeeshan> er v6.
[23:44:51] <zeeshan> where is the serpentine
[23:44:53] <zeeshan> driver or passenger
[23:44:58] <JT-Shop> ok, I know where it is now
[23:45:12] <JT-Shop> on the front
[23:45:16] <zeeshan> nice!!
[23:45:17] <JT-Shop> thanks for that link
[23:45:20] <zeeshan> you can prolly access it from the top
[23:45:28] * zeeshan hates getting under cars
[23:45:45] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Don't you have a project car in your garage?
[23:45:50] <JT-Shop> I might be able to see it with a mirror
[23:45:52] <zeeshan> yes malcom2073
[23:45:54] <malcom2073> I seem to recall a car that looked half disassembled from a pic of your mill
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[23:46:10] <zeeshan> oh its pretty disassembled haha
[23:46:29] * JT-Shop doesn't need any more projects LOL
[23:46:33] <malcom2073> heh
[23:46:34] <zeeshan> me either man
[23:46:38] <zeeshan> i wanted to build a 3d printer
[23:46:44] <zeeshan> making my fiance do it.
[23:47:10] <JT-Shop> lol
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[23:49:02] <JT-Shop> if it wasn't so close to lazy time I'd get suited up and go look for the damn starter
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[23:51:05] <malcom2073> lol
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[23:51:22] <malcom2073> I don't think I could convince my wife to build a 3d printer
[23:51:44] <malcom2073> She tolerates my hobbies, even encourages them, but stays far from partaking in them :P
[23:52:30] <JT-Shop> zeeshan, that photo just makes my day! thanks again
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[23:57:04] * JT-Shop wanders inside to make some jambalaya
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